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The Accidental Tech Podcast

261: Seven-Dollar Plastic Garbage

 

01:00:00   last summer and I started using Waze a [TS]

01:00:02   lot going to Long Island is you know [TS]

01:00:05   always a traffic nightmare especially [TS]

01:00:08   when you go on the weekends when [TS]

01:00:08   everyone else is going and I have since [TS]

01:00:12   been using Waze so yeah for about a year [TS]

01:00:14   and I've been using it since then also [TS]

01:00:16   and Waze is so much better than every [TS]

01:00:21   other traffic routing system I have ever [TS]

01:00:23   used by a longshot [TS]

01:00:25   so the point where it has earned my [TS]

01:00:28   trust [TS]

01:00:28   when Waze tells me to go a certain way I [TS]

01:00:31   go that way it has not steered me wrong [TS]

01:00:34   yet it is so good and I know that [TS]

01:00:38   there's I know first of all it's owned [TS]

01:00:39   by Google and it is constantly sending [TS]

01:00:42   lots of data to them and really burns [TS]

01:00:44   your battery so you gotta have plugged [TS]

01:00:46   in I'm aware of the trade-offs here for [TS]

01:00:50   you know privacy and creepiness for this [TS]

01:00:52   service but it's so dramatically is [TS]

01:00:55   better than everything else out there in [TS]

01:00:58   so many ways it has earned my trust and [TS]

01:01:01   I highly suggest if anyone else is okay [TS]

01:01:04   with giving a whole bunch of your [TS]

01:01:05   location data to Google while you're [TS]

01:01:06   using Waze I strongly suggest using it [TS]

01:01:09   when you drive somewhere and there's [TS]

01:01:11   lots of other things about it that they [TS]

01:01:12   you a lot of people first heard about it [TS]

01:01:14   because of its it's a feature where [TS]

01:01:15   people can report where police officers [TS]

01:01:17   are and it'll like alert you hey there's [TS]

01:01:19   a police officer up ahead five you know [TS]

01:01:21   point five miles ahead or whatever [TS]

01:01:22   that's honestly that's a side benefit [TS]

01:01:24   the traffic routing is really where it's [TS]

01:01:26   at that is where Waze kicks so much but [TS]

01:01:30   across everything else and it's also [TS]

01:01:32   incredibly good at time estimates like I [TS]

01:01:34   can go on a two hour drive with lots of [TS]

01:01:38   traffic in the middle and whatever time [TS]

01:01:41   estimate Waze told me at the beginning [TS]

01:01:43   of the drive when I would arrive on a [TS]

01:01:45   two hour traffic fill drive it's right [TS]

01:01:48   within like five minutes almost every [TS]

01:01:49   time it's crazy how accurate the time is [TS]

01:01:51   Matar so unlike a lot of the other [TS]

01:01:53   systems I've used you know you don't you [TS]

01:01:55   don't sit there and watch the time or [TS]

01:01:56   count up and really she's really [TS]

01:01:58   discouraging like you you know ahead of [TS]

01:02:01   time roughly what you're getting into [TS]

01:02:03   and you can even plan drives you can say [TS]

01:02:05   like I'm going to be driving from here [TS]

01:02:07   to here tomorrow morning what time [TS]

01:02:10   should I leave and you can scroll [TS]

01:02:13   through this cool [TS]

01:02:13   graph where it'll show you like well if [TS]

01:02:15   you if you leave an hour earlier it'll [TS]

01:02:16   take less time and if you go near this [TS]

01:02:18   stair this time zone it'll get really [TS]

01:02:21   traffic you but then it'll lessen out [TS]

01:02:23   down here after rush hour like it's so [TS]

01:02:25   nice that it is one of the very few [TS]

01:02:27   things that I'm very willing to give up [TS]

01:02:30   a massive amount of my privacy and my [TS]

01:02:32   data for the incredible benefit that it [TS]

01:02:34   gives so John why am I wrong about [TS]

01:02:36   everything by the way that was roughly [TS]

01:02:39   four minutes well done so yes I would [TS]

01:02:41   love to see what those graphs look like [TS]

01:02:43   if you're like in the Hamptons and it's [TS]

01:02:46   Sunday night it should be like just go [TS]

01:02:48   to sleep try them try on Monday morning [TS]

01:02:52   like if I leave now I'll get home in [TS]

01:02:55   seven hours but ever leave five hours [TS]

01:02:57   now I'll get home in one and a half [TS]

01:02:59   hours hmm [TS]

01:03:01   so this ways has been the topic was so [TS]

01:03:03   long I have no idea what I think I was [TS]

01:03:04   gonna say do have something one one [TS]

01:03:10   fairly silly but possibly depressing [TS]

01:03:12   thing to say about it I have ways on my [TS]

01:03:15   phone at various times during drives or [TS]

01:03:19   before I would know what was going to [TS]

01:03:20   take a drive I'm like we use Waze [TS]

01:03:22   because there might be traffic and I'm [TS]

01:03:25   interested in alternate routes I've [TS]

01:03:27   tried to use Waze by launching the [TS]

01:03:29   application and it just sent me into [TS]

01:03:31   like a sign-up funnel that I have never [TS]

01:03:33   made it through and I don't remember now [TS]

01:03:36   what it is that was sending me away but [TS]

01:03:39   I think at least three or four times I [TS]

01:03:41   was motivated to use Waze I started down [TS]

01:03:44   whatever funnel of sign up thing they [TS]

01:03:46   had for me and partway through I bailed [TS]

01:03:50   out because it was like too onerous did [TS]

01:03:52   one like my social security number did [TS]

01:03:54   it I'm not one of those people like [TS]

01:03:57   whatever take my email I'll make a [TS]

01:03:58   password I don't care I'll make an [TS]

01:04:00   account like it's not like I'm you know [TS]

01:04:01   shy about making accounts but there was [TS]

01:04:03   something about the signup process and [TS]

01:04:04   this I think it's like the first app [TS]

01:04:05   that has happened to it [TS]

01:04:06   it's memorable to me because I have been [TS]

01:04:09   repeatedly motivated to try the app [TS]

01:04:11   because people say it's good and yet it [TS]

01:04:12   keeps repelling me so I have no idea if [TS]

01:04:16   it's changed since the last time I've [TS]

01:04:18   tried it but whatever it is like I [TS]

01:04:19   couldn't get through to the app to use [TS]

01:04:23   the app because of this funnel that it [TS]

01:04:26   was sending me through [TS]

01:04:27   find that kind of depressing my question [TS]

01:04:29   for Marco is what are the competitors [TS]

01:04:30   like you mention waves compared deals [TS]

01:04:32   what other things have you tried because [TS]

01:04:33   I don't honestly I don't even know I [TS]

01:04:34   know Apple Maps I know Google Maps and I [TS]

01:04:36   know ways and that's it yeah so I those [TS]

01:04:38   three those those are the part of the [TS]

01:04:39   big ones I've also used the built in [TS]

01:04:41   systems for Tesla the Tesla system is [TS]

01:04:43   garbage [TS]

01:04:43   it has Google map tiles which is nice so [TS]

01:04:46   you can see the good maps but through I [TS]

01:04:48   probably some weird licensing thing it [TS]

01:04:51   doesn't use Google for the directions [TS]

01:04:52   like Tesla I think has their own service [TS]

01:04:55   or licensing something else for the [TS]

01:04:57   routing and so like the Google tiles are [TS]

01:05:00   literally just there like as the image [TS]

01:05:01   of the map and so Tesla has its own [TS]

01:05:03   system for routing that has options for [TS]

01:05:06   for dynamic traffic routing and it is [TS]

01:05:09   horrible I don't recommend anybody use [TS]

01:05:12   it for that like to the point I had this [TS]

01:05:15   giant touchscreen in my car which I love [TS]

01:05:17   all other times and will often use like [TS]

01:05:20   two browser on the map to see like you [TS]

01:05:21   know what areas around me are full of [TS]

01:05:22   traffic right now if I'm like going [TS]

01:05:23   somewhere local or I want to see like [TS]

01:05:24   how how would you get there the giant s [TS]

01:05:27   the map is awesome for that but then [TS]

01:05:29   I'll have my phone in this little like [TS]

01:05:30   seven dollar suction cup mount right [TS]

01:05:32   next to the Tesla screen running ways [TS]

01:05:36   when I'm actually going somewhere like [TS]

01:05:37   on the highway because it's so much [TS]

01:05:40   better I'm sorry the test system is [TS]

01:05:41   terrible [TS]

01:05:42   I've also tried the Lexus system and two [TS]

01:05:46   or three generations of the BMW idrive [TS]

01:05:48   system none of them are very good the [TS]

01:05:52   the traffic routing on all of them is [TS]

01:05:54   pretty poor BMW system also has the [TS]

01:05:56   additional benefit of being [TS]

01:05:58   incomprehensible wet like when it's [TS]

01:06:00   offering youth traffic routing options [TS]

01:06:01   case you've seen this like it can be [TS]

01:06:04   pretty awkward to try to figure out like [TS]

01:06:05   what button here do I hit to take this [TS]

01:06:07   route or decline this route and then if [TS]

01:06:08   you decline it can you go back later and [TS]

01:06:10   see it or what is it going to do for you [TS]

01:06:11   it's it's very confusing and very hard [TS]

01:06:14   to use all these all the other systems [TS]

01:06:17   have led me down crazy paths and and [TS]

01:06:21   that didn't pay off and made terrible [TS]

01:06:23   time estimates along the way and made [TS]

01:06:25   terrible decisions along the way where [TS]

01:06:27   ways just hasn't like I think I've had [TS]

01:06:30   maybe one or two times where Waze told [TS]

01:06:33   me to do something and afterwards I [TS]

01:06:35   thought maybe that wasn't worth it but [TS]

01:06:36   it's nothing like with the other systems [TS]

01:06:38   where like you take one of the traffic [TS]

01:06:39   suggestions and every [TS]

01:06:40   you're like Oh God Tesla does not know [TS]

01:06:43   what speed traffic moves on side streets [TS]

01:06:44   in New York City like that's crazy [TS]

01:06:46   like that's it's that level of bad with [TS]

01:06:49   the other systems and ways just again it [TS]

01:06:51   has earned my trust it like when weighs [TS]

01:06:54   tells me to take some direction even if [TS]

01:06:56   I know that it's gonna be indirect I [TS]

01:06:58   know they're telling me for a good [TS]

01:06:59   reason [TS]

01:07:00   and so I take it and it works almost [TS]

01:07:03   every time it's shocking how good it is [TS]

01:07:06   oh yeah well you have the advantage that [TS]

01:07:08   the New York metro area probably has [TS]

01:07:09   incredibly good coverage for like ways [TS]

01:07:11   information right oh yeah I mean like [TS]

01:07:13   there's a reason why like if you get [TS]

01:07:15   into any lyft or uber or even a lot of [TS]

01:07:19   taxis and and car services like the [TS]

01:07:21   drivers of almost all these services use [TS]

01:07:24   Waze to route themselves like I see you [TS]

01:07:26   can see who watch when they like on [TS]

01:07:27   their phones that they have mounted so [TS]

01:07:29   uh comes they'll have multiple phones [TS]

01:07:30   one of them running like you know the [TS]

01:07:32   lyft driver app and one of them running [TS]

01:07:34   ways and even if they only have one [TS]

01:07:36   phone like they'll be switching between [TS]

01:07:37   those two F's they'll be actually using [TS]

01:07:39   Waze to wrap them there and whatever map [TS]

01:07:41   goober a lyft is telling them to take as [TS]

01:07:43   the driver they're mostly ignoring [TS]

01:07:44   because we this is better so yeah [TS]

01:07:46   obviously like it is it is obviously a [TS]

01:07:48   very dependent service so if you're in [TS]

01:07:51   an area where there's not a lot of users [TS]

01:07:53   of it it's it's not gonna be as good a [TS]

01:07:54   traffic routing but it's really popular [TS]

01:07:58   and it's been really popular for a long [TS]

01:07:59   time and it's really popular among [TS]

01:08:01   people who drive a lot like taxi drivers [TS]

01:08:03   so there tends to be a lot of ways [TS]

01:08:06   coverage pretty much everywhere in my [TS]

01:08:08   experience I've used the Google app and [TS]

01:08:12   it is suggested to me alternate routes I [TS]

01:08:14   don't know of goo I mean Google if they [TS]

01:08:16   own ways I would think they would [TS]

01:08:17   leverage some of the information but I [TS]

01:08:19   think I do [TS]

01:08:19   if the goulds you know so every once in [TS]

01:08:22   a while I have taken these suggested [TS]

01:08:24   alternate route from Google and so far [TS]

01:08:25   has its DB room but they haven't been [TS]

01:08:27   radically different it doesn't like take [TS]

01:08:28   this major highway instead of this one [TS]

01:08:29   because there's an accident Mike alright [TS]

01:08:31   good thanks but for the most part I have [TS]

01:08:34   not entered the world of you know you [TS]

01:08:36   know letting go and letting ways just [TS]

01:08:38   tell me where to go so I have not done [TS]

01:08:41   any sort of scientific testing on this [TS]

01:08:44   but my completely anecdotal single data [TS]

01:08:47   point based on my experience is that [TS]

01:08:49   Google does use the same data the ways [TS]

01:08:52   does but it seems [TS]

01:08:54   to be a lot less aggressive about [TS]

01:08:56   routing you through somebody's backyard [TS]

01:08:57   like Marco was talking about like it [TS]

01:08:59   will keep you to only ever so slightly [TS]

01:09:02   aggressive changes of route whereas ways [TS]

01:09:06   will send you through a residential [TS]

01:09:07   street and not even think twice about it [TS]

01:09:09   it also it's kind of funny when you are [TS]

01:09:11   doing that there's almost always two [TS]

01:09:13   cars ahead of you who are following the [TS]

01:09:14   exact same route and you can tell like [TS]

01:09:15   oh this is the Waze cluster right here [TS]

01:09:17   we're all the ways users are going [TS]

01:09:18   through this random residential street [TS]

01:09:20   but then we pop onto the highway [TS]

01:09:22   magically right in front of a giant [TS]

01:09:24   traffic jam it's like okay well I guess [TS]

01:09:26   that was worth it after all it's it's [TS]

01:09:29   totally true the one the one thing that [TS]

01:09:31   really bothers me about ways has almost [TS]

01:09:33   nothing to do with Waze at all and at [TS]

01:09:36   the risk of sounding like a broken [TS]

01:09:37   record and what do I need for that a [TS]

01:09:39   vinyl player is that right anyway the [TS]

01:09:41   vinyl Turner I believe it's called a [TS]

01:09:42   vinyl Turner that's what it is at there [TS]

01:09:45   is sounding like a broken record one of [TS]

01:09:46   the things that really bums me out about [TS]

01:09:48   Waze is that if I'm in Aaron's car and [TS]

01:09:50   she has a 20-17 xc90 a Volvo xc90 with [TS]

01:09:53   carplay if I'm an aaron's car and you [TS]

01:09:55   must run into this in the BMW if you [TS]

01:09:57   ever take that for any long journey and [TS]

01:09:58   you can't I know I know but you can't [TS]

01:10:01   use Waze natively on carplay I'm not [TS]

01:10:06   clear and it may be but that that's [TS]

01:10:08   entirely wases fault I don't think [TS]

01:10:10   that's the case it's not there's no the [TS]

01:10:13   only way that other apps can integrate [TS]

01:10:15   with carplay is as audio playing apps [TS]

01:10:17   that's it there's no other api's for and [TS]

01:10:21   no other integrations that they've done [TS]

01:10:22   with partners or anything like it's it's [TS]

01:10:24   only audio playback there you go so it [TS]

01:10:28   is infuriating that here is a really [TS]

01:10:31   really lovely perfectly well maybe not [TS]

01:10:34   perfectly but really well-thought-out [TS]

01:10:36   secondary display for my phone that that [TS]

01:10:40   is right in the center console right [TS]

01:10:42   where you would want to look at it and [TS]

01:10:43   there is nothing that weighs can do [TS]

01:10:47   about that in ways can't use it at all [TS]

01:10:49   and it's super duper frustrating one of [TS]

01:10:51   the nice things about Aaron's car is [TS]

01:10:53   that you know I will often plug in my [TS]

01:10:55   phone to her car in and so we are [TS]

01:10:59   looking at the car played display of my [TS]

01:11:02   phone on the senator display because [TS]

01:11:04   it's easy for me as a passenger to [TS]

01:11:05   reroute her or choose different route or [TS]

01:11:07   whatever the case may be [TS]

01:11:08   on Apple Maps or just do something [TS]

01:11:10   different you know to change where we're [TS]

01:11:13   going or so whatever they gives maybe [TS]

01:11:14   it's nice as the passenger to be able to [TS]

01:11:16   do that but to effect the the display [TS]

01:11:18   that she is looking at so I don't have [TS]

01:11:20   to call out every four seconds make a [TS]

01:11:21   right make a left make a right make a [TS]

01:11:23   left she goes look down and see it for [TS]

01:11:24   herself and that would be amazing with [TS]

01:11:27   Waze and I would kill to be able to have [TS]

01:11:30   ways on Erin's carplay display but [TS]

01:11:34   because Apple is the Walia stuff walled [TS]

01:11:37   gardens no dice and this is the same [TS]

01:11:39   problem I have a Spotify on the home pod [TS]

01:11:41   and it is getting to the point that I am [TS]

01:11:46   starting to get deeply frustrated about [TS]

01:11:48   this deeply frustrated enough to go [TS]

01:11:50   Android yeah let's not go crazy [TS]

01:11:52   but I am getting deeply frustrated by [TS]

01:11:54   this and I don't feel like Apple is [TS]

01:11:57   really doing themselves any service [TS]

01:11:59   particularly in this context I could see [TS]

01:12:01   how yeah okay fine let the home pod [TS]

01:12:03   Drive Apple music sales fine whatever [TS]

01:12:06   but I still disagree with it but I can [TS]

01:12:08   at least understand the perspective but [TS]

01:12:09   in this case like why are you forcing [TS]

01:12:12   people to use Apple maps and I actually [TS]

01:12:15   don't have that much of a problem with [TS]

01:12:17   Apple maps and I'll turn to that when [TS]

01:12:19   I'm doing any sort of normal like half [TS]

01:12:21   an hour or an hour journey but if I'm [TS]

01:12:23   doing like what you're talking about [TS]

01:12:24   Marco going to going to the beach or [TS]

01:12:26   doing like a two-hour plus journey I'm [TS]

01:12:28   always all the time and especially if [TS]

01:12:30   I'm going to DC which is a traffic [TS]

01:12:32   nightmare I'm go I'm going waste for [TS]

01:12:35   that and so it is infuriating that [TS]

01:12:39   because of hubris because of [TS]

01:12:42   obnoxiousness I don't know what [TS]

01:12:44   adjectives you want to want to use here [TS]

01:12:46   but for whatever reason laziness [TS]

01:12:48   Apple just does not let us use the one [TS]

01:12:51   app that I think almost everyone [TS]

01:12:52   universally wants to use I think I [TS]

01:12:55   understand why they like our play is so [TS]

01:12:57   limited I think they're just very [TS]

01:12:58   nervous about putting arbitrary [TS]

01:13:00   third-party iOS you deserve interfaces [TS]

01:13:03   up on a screen even if just for just [TS]

01:13:04   even just for display purposes that they [TS]

01:13:06   just want to be conservative and say [TS]

01:13:07   these are the things that we've decided [TS]

01:13:09   are not are don't distract drivers I [TS]

01:13:13   don't know that that are distraction [TS]

01:13:16   free enough that we feel like we are at [TS]

01:13:18   the right band of [TS]

01:13:20   legal exposure yeah and and cuz and [TS]

01:13:24   there's also like you know it's it's a [TS]

01:13:26   difficult problem because there are so [TS]

01:13:28   many different laws in different [TS]

01:13:29   countries and even different states [TS]

01:13:31   about what a car screen can display and [TS]

01:13:36   how much you know how much can it change [TS]

01:13:38   how many items can be like in a list of [TS]

01:13:40   items because they don't they don't want [TS]

01:13:42   people like browsing long lists while [TS]

01:13:43   they're driving like there's so many [TS]

01:13:45   regulations and stuff that it's you know [TS]

01:13:47   and again when you're dealing with auto [TS]

01:13:49   safety you really have to be very [TS]

01:13:52   conservative because literally lives are [TS]

01:13:54   at stake if you're not and so there's [TS]

01:13:56   lots of regulations and and safety [TS]

01:13:58   concerns there so it makes sense why [TS]

01:14:01   they don't add much to it but the [TS]

01:14:04   reality then is what people do is what [TS]

01:14:07   I've done with my car is like that you [TS]

01:14:08   just get a cell phone mount for seven [TS]

01:14:10   dollars and you stick it to the car and [TS]

01:14:12   then you have your phone screen [TS]

01:14:13   available to you yeah maybe that's an [TS]

01:14:16   acceptable compromise because then like [TS]

01:14:18   you know they're they're like legally [TS]

01:14:20   covered he's like well we didn't do that [TS]

01:14:21   you know I wonder if that's necessarily [TS]

01:14:23   the best idea but ultimately it doesn't [TS]

01:14:26   really matter whether it's a good idea [TS]

01:14:27   or not that's what everyone's doing it's [TS]

01:14:29   like and across all walks of life [TS]

01:14:32   Android and iOS like that's what [TS]

01:14:34   everyone does is they want to use Waze [TS]

01:14:36   in their car which a lot of people do [TS]

01:14:37   they just get a cell phone mount and [TS]

01:14:40   stick it to the dashboard of the [TS]

01:14:41   windshield and it's not the best setup [TS]

01:14:42   in the world but it's fine [TS]

01:14:44   it'll be increasingly wasteful as large [TS]

01:14:47   screens and cars trickles down from the [TS]

01:14:49   high end to basically every car which is [TS]

01:14:51   slowly but surely happening you know [TS]

01:14:55   right now you feel a frustration I got a [TS]

01:14:56   70 inch LCD in my Tesla and I got a look [TS]

01:14:59   at my little phone screen because I [TS]

01:15:01   can't display ways on my giant Tesla [TS]

01:15:03   screen right and the same thing with all [TS]

01:15:05   the high-end cars that have displays in [TS]

01:15:06   front of the driver and the in the you [TS]

01:15:08   know instrument cluster and everything [TS]

01:15:09   like that [TS]

01:15:09   fast forward 10 15 years where every [TS]

01:15:13   single car you buy has like two or three [TS]

01:15:15   giant screens in them and still people [TS]

01:15:17   are flipping things to ventilation [TS]

01:15:19   you know ports so they can look at their [TS]

01:15:22   tiny phone screen and have all the wires [TS]

01:15:24   dangling all over the place that that's [TS]

01:15:26   bad it's not good I'm not quite sure [TS]

01:15:29   what the solution is because I don't [TS]

01:15:30   think you should just let arbitrary [TS]

01:15:32   phones display whatever they want on [TS]

01:15:33   this [TS]

01:15:33   means in the car but that may be [TS]

01:15:35   inevitable the only thing comparison I [TS]

01:15:38   can think of is one that is not [TS]

01:15:39   particularly not a particularly good [TS]

01:15:42   comparison which is radar detectors [TS]

01:15:43   which there are all sorts of laws [TS]

01:15:45   against swell but I don't think we ever [TS]

01:15:47   got to the point where any car [TS]

01:15:48   manufacturer was brave enough to build [TS]

01:15:50   them into the car right so everyone who [TS]

01:15:53   wants to have a radar detector or a [TS]

01:15:54   laser detector or whatever in the days [TS]

01:15:56   before we had ways to tell us where the [TS]

01:15:58   cops are would have a device with a [TS]

01:16:01   suction cup and a cable snaking down [TS]

01:16:03   along their car and it never changed [TS]

01:16:06   from that like even cars with a radar [TS]

01:16:08   you know I don't know if they have the [TS]

01:16:10   sensors built-in for that but you know [TS]

01:16:11   self-driving cars that have ultra senses [TS]

01:16:12   all over them I don't think any of those [TS]

01:16:14   sensors are dedicated to finding a laser [TS]

01:16:17   or a radar speed detection or could even [TS]

01:16:21   be hack to do so and you know the [TS]

01:16:23   current solution is internet and [TS]

01:16:25   crowdsourcing that's how we find that [TS]

01:16:26   but I'm hoping the screen issue resolves [TS]

01:16:28   itself in a better way because unlike [TS]

01:16:31   speed trap detection stuff I think it is [TS]

01:16:35   possible to have a constructive useful [TS]

01:16:41   non law-breaking application of better [TS]

01:16:47   directions inside our cars because most [TS]

01:16:49   cars have some way to do directions at a [TS]

01:16:51   map and and all the stuff we just want [TS]

01:16:54   we just want an environment where we can [TS]

01:16:56   choose the best map for whatever area we [TS]

01:16:58   live in and not have to like the home [TS]

01:17:01   pod or all sorts of other device not [TS]

01:17:03   have to pick the hardware based on what [TS]

01:17:05   software runs on it yeah because and you [TS]

01:17:08   know at first of all like I think this [TS]

01:17:09   is different than the radar detector [TS]

01:17:10   example in in the largest way because [TS]

01:17:12   it's so much more mass-market than radar [TS]

01:17:15   detectors ever were or will be like so [TS]

01:17:19   many more people use cell phone mounts [TS]

01:17:21   in their cars than ever use radar [TS]

01:17:23   detectors you know and because that was [TS]

01:17:25   always such a kind of you know edge case [TS]

01:17:27   for like high strongmen basically and [TS]

01:17:31   and so like you know but this is like [TS]

01:17:34   this is so mass-market like people like [TS]

01:17:36   Apple or Tesla who are like you know [TS]

01:17:38   designing things for cars where that [TS]

01:17:40   that don't accommodate the fact that [TS]

01:17:41   everyone's gonna just use cell phone [TS]

01:17:43   mounts unless they make a better [TS]

01:17:44   solution to put any app on the screen [TS]

01:17:47   I feel like that like that fight has [TS]

01:17:49   already it's already past them like that [TS]

01:17:52   the market has already decided we want [TS]

01:17:55   arbitrary apps to be able to be [TS]

01:17:57   displayed on our phones in our cars and [TS]

01:17:59   that's terrible because it's very unsafe [TS]

01:18:01   like that you don't want people like [TS]

01:18:03   showing like you know a texting app or [TS]

01:18:04   something like we're like watching [TS]

01:18:06   YouTube videos or whatever right like [TS]

01:18:07   there's lots of reasons why that's [TS]

01:18:09   terrible but the reality is people are [TS]

01:18:12   doing it and people will continue to do [TS]

01:18:14   it because for very compelling and [TS]

01:18:17   totally legitimate and safe uses like [TS]

01:18:19   Waze or other navigation apps that's [TS]

01:18:21   such a compelling use that people are [TS]

01:18:23   just gonna do it anyway so they might as [TS]

01:18:25   well you know the more pragmatic [TS]

01:18:27   solution here is not to try to you know [TS]

01:18:30   stop people from doing that or try to [TS]

01:18:31   lock people in to just you know your [TS]

01:18:33   built-in thing and your in whatever you [TS]

01:18:35   know gated system you run but to [TS]

01:18:37   acknowledge the fact that people are [TS]

01:18:39   doing this and will do this and try to [TS]

01:18:42   give them a better safer way to do what [TS]

01:18:45   they're going to do anyway the Tesla [TS]

01:18:47   Model 3 of the Interior is correct [TS]

01:18:50   actually throw right into it and it [TS]

01:18:52   doesn't have vents and there is no sense [TS]

01:18:55   where you can clip in your holder so [TS]

01:18:56   you'd have to use like a windshield [TS]

01:18:57   suction cup in it in that case I don't [TS]

01:18:59   know how far away that windshield is oh [TS]

01:19:00   good yeah I don't know if that would [TS]

01:19:01   work so I I started out with a vent clip [TS]

01:19:04   and moved to a suction cup with like a [TS]

01:19:07   little like you know two inch are more [TS]

01:19:09   foreign charm and it for just it's [TS]

01:19:11   because the suction cup thing or the [TS]

01:19:13   event thing just kept falling out as my [TS]

01:19:15   phone got bigger and heavier and and as [TS]

01:19:18   I accelerated harder sometimes but it [TS]

01:19:24   works for me because there was like a [TS]

01:19:25   there's like a flat piece of trim right [TS]

01:19:28   below the vent so I just have it suction [TS]

01:19:30   cup like vertically to that but that [TS]

01:19:33   like I'm kind of worried that whenever [TS]

01:19:35   the next Model S revision comes out [TS]

01:19:37   which is probably I think gonna be in [TS]

01:19:39   time for my next lease I'm a little [TS]

01:19:41   worried they might like change the [TS]

01:19:42   interior like the three and not give me [TS]

01:19:44   a spot to stick a suction cup then [TS]

01:19:47   you'll have to do it on the windshield [TS]

01:19:48   on an even longer arm because the [TS]

01:19:49   windshield is really far away I really [TS]

01:19:51   don't want to do that I really don't [TS]

01:19:52   wanna do that it puts it too too high up [TS]

01:19:54   for me that's what that's that's why I [TS]

01:19:55   reminded me of radar detectors even [TS]

01:19:57   though like you said you know way more [TS]

01:19:59   common [TS]

01:19:59   like it's the ugliness of messing up [TS]

01:20:01   your car's interior with this extra wart [TS]

01:20:03   then you have to stick onto it plus the [TS]

01:20:05   Associated cord that's attached to the [TS]

01:20:06   board well that's that's why I resisted [TS]

01:20:08   it for so long like why I just want to [TS]

01:20:10   do the built-in systems for so long and [TS]

01:20:11   then why my first thing was just a [TS]

01:20:14   little you know vent mount because that [TS]

01:20:16   was something I just keep in little like [TS]

01:20:18   center console and just like when I [TS]

01:20:20   wanted to use it take it out take out a [TS]

01:20:22   lightning cable and you know stick it on [TS]

01:20:23   there and use it and then when I was [TS]

01:20:24   done I would take it away and it took [TS]

01:20:26   you know three or four months of that [TS]

01:20:28   before I look alright I'm sold on this [TS]

01:20:31   setup I'm in let me do it right and make [TS]

01:20:33   it less annoying unless finicky and now [TS]

01:20:35   I just have a permanent suction cup [TS]

01:20:36   stuck to the stuck right next to my [TS]

01:20:38   giant touchscreen of my beautiful car [TS]

01:20:39   interior with this permanent or [TS]

01:20:41   semi-permanent wire running down the [TS]

01:20:43   side because it just has that much [TS]

01:20:45   utility like it's it's so good it's so [TS]

01:20:47   helpful that that's what like that I'm [TS]

01:20:51   willing to tarnish my interior with this [TS]

01:20:54   seven dollar plastic garbage that's next [TS]

01:20:57   to my beautiful screen because it is [TS]

01:20:59   just that useful to me one thing that [TS]

01:21:01   could make this slightly less clumsy the [TS]

01:21:07   idea of rededicating old devices to [TS]

01:21:10   specific uses the tricky part with [TS]

01:21:13   directions is like yeah but who's gonna [TS]

01:21:14   pay for a phone that only lives in their [TS]

01:21:16   car forever right so but some fancy [TS]

01:21:19   schmancy cars come with their own like [TS]

01:21:21   it cell connections that granted you [TS]

01:21:23   have to pay for but you know if you're [TS]

01:21:25   paying for an internet connection for [TS]

01:21:27   like an LTE connection for your car then [TS]

01:21:29   you could reuse and all the iphone with [TS]

01:21:31   no sim in it merely going on the cars [TS]

01:21:34   Wi-Fi and permanently mounted or an old [TS]

01:21:37   ipad for that matter and permanently [TS]

01:21:38   mount it somewhere in your car and have [TS]

01:21:41   it be a single purpose device the only [TS]

01:21:43   thing this thing does is runs the Waze [TS]

01:21:44   application and it's permantly plugged [TS]

01:21:47   in and i can route the wire like you're [TS]

01:21:48   basically designing your own car [TS]

01:21:49   interior i have a dedicated ipod touch [TS]

01:21:51   in my car for music purposes you know I [TS]

01:21:53   can Bluetooth play music from my phone [TS]

01:21:55   as well but it's nice to have a [TS]

01:21:57   dedicated thing that's always in the car [TS]

01:21:58   always connected always plugged in I [TS]

01:22:00   could see people doing that with with [TS]

01:22:03   directions if it was possible to get to [TS]

01:22:04   work oh yeah III honestly considered [TS]

01:22:07   using a cellular iPad Mini for this [TS]

01:22:09   purpose because I feel that that's kind [TS]

01:22:10   of like a really good balance like it [TS]

01:22:12   doesn't cost much to have the cell [TS]

01:22:13   on that it's a pretty good-sized screen [TS]

01:22:15   bigger than any phone it's like if you [TS]

01:22:17   like if there was a place for that to [TS]

01:22:19   fit in my interior without blocking a [TS]

01:22:21   third of the screen I might have done [TS]

01:22:23   that you've got a model three because [TS]

01:22:25   there's nothing on that dashboard [TS]

01:22:26   playing uh anyway no it's funny you [TS]

01:22:32   bring that up John that because as we [TS]

01:22:34   were talking I was thinking to myself [TS]

01:22:35   you know Aaron's car does have an LTE [TS]

01:22:38   connection that we're not paying for and [TS]

01:22:40   you can like COFF near a cell cellphone [TS]

01:22:45   store and get a free Android phone I [TS]

01:22:47   could get a free Android phone install [TS]

01:22:51   only ways on it turn everything else off [TS]

01:22:53   installed at Aaron's car and just have [TS]

01:22:55   that be our car computer you know [TS]

01:22:57   because it supports Android auto as well [TS]

01:22:58   and I am almost sure even you know [TS]

01:23:01   regardless of the fact that Google now [TS]

01:23:03   owns ways I don't think they have near [TS]

01:23:04   as many restrictions as far as I'm aware [TS]

01:23:06   on Android auto as as Apple does and [TS]

01:23:10   thus why couldn't I just get the world's [TS]

01:23:13   crappiest you know Android phone I guess [TS]

01:23:15   it's kind of redundant isn't it anyway [TS]

01:23:17   this is a good test of KC's sense of [TS]

01:23:20   injustice about cell phone plans all [TS]

01:23:22   right so the watch which is very small [TS]

01:23:24   was a great affront because it charged [TS]

01:23:27   you however much you charge you yeah the [TS]

01:23:28   car is very very big so how much does a [TS]

01:23:31   cell connection for your car cost and do [TS]

01:23:34   you feel it is okay I think it's the [TS]

01:23:36   same or it's double one or the other and [TS]

01:23:38   this is why we haven't paid for yourself [TS]

01:23:40   like we got our free six gigs whatever [TS]

01:23:42   was when we bought the car and I've ever [TS]

01:23:44   paid for it since because I also don't [TS]

01:23:46   think that's worth the money either but [TS]

01:23:48   the car is so big oh my god I'm not [TS]

01:23:51   going to entertain this conversation I'm [TS]

01:23:52   a hundred percent true no it's not true [TS]

01:23:55   because I'm not paying for it how many [TS]

01:23:57   watches could fit in them in the mass of [TS]

01:23:59   the car all I'm saying is like that I I [TS]

01:24:03   firmly believe that it seems more unjust [TS]

01:24:05   because the watch is small then it would [TS]

01:24:08   for a larger I'm not debating that I [TS]

01:24:10   completely grew and so the car is the [TS]

01:24:12   largest device how often would you use [TS]

01:24:14   the car weighs LTE connection and versus [TS]

01:24:17   how often do you use the watch's LTE [TS]

01:24:18   connection have you are you actually [TS]

01:24:21   using the LTE still yeah two to three [TS]

01:24:23   times a week well not for the last two [TS]

01:24:24   months because I just had a kid and it's [TS]

01:24:26   been [TS]

01:24:26   please now yes anytime I go for a run I [TS]

01:24:28   go with only air pods and my watch and [TS]

01:24:31   so every time I do that I well I guess I [TS]

01:24:34   shouldn't say I am using the LTE [TS]

01:24:36   connection but I want to have the [TS]

01:24:37   ability to does that make sense so like [TS]

01:24:39   if I break an ankle or something I want [TS]

01:24:41   to be able to call Aaron and say please [TS]

01:24:42   come get me you know I would I would I [TS]

01:24:43   would count that as using like if you're [TS]

01:24:45   going out without your phone and that's [TS]

01:24:47   yeah being connected via LT that that [TS]

01:24:50   counts as using it and this is why I'm [TS]

01:24:51   paying for it like I'm grumbling about [TS]

01:24:53   why grumbled about it I didn't bring it [TS]

01:24:55   up this time thank you very much but I [TS]

01:24:56   did my grumbling I moved on with my life [TS]

01:24:58   this is why I do pay for the watch and [TS]

01:25:00   we didn't pay for the car and haven't [TS]

01:25:03   paid for the car or the LTE connection [TS]

01:25:05   in the car that is because I did the [TS]

01:25:07   math if just in a in a figurative sense [TS]

01:25:09   I did the math not even literally [TS]

01:25:11   arithmetic and I thought you know what [TS]

01:25:12   it's very rare that I'm in the car long [TS]

01:25:14   enough to justify using its connection [TS]

01:25:16   even if I am i can just tether there's [TS]

01:25:18   really no need for me to pay for a [TS]

01:25:20   connection in the car would it be more [TS]

01:25:21   convenient if it was free [TS]

01:25:23   absolutely is it worth and I think it's [TS]

01:25:25   either 10 or 20 bucks a month I can't [TS]

01:25:26   remember which is it worth that money [TS]

01:25:27   for it mmm no probably not [TS]

01:25:30   I only brought it up to say it is a [TS]

01:25:32   solution one could do is get even if [TS]

01:25:34   you're a devout you know iOS person you [TS]

01:25:37   could get a free Android phone stick [TS]

01:25:39   ways on it hook it up to either [TS]

01:25:40   tethering on your you know existing i/o [TS]

01:25:42   you know iPhone or just hook it up to [TS]

01:25:44   your car what-have-you use Android auto [TS]

01:25:46   and everyone's happy I don't recommend [TS]

01:25:48   it but you could you know what I'm [TS]

01:25:49   totally fine having a $7 piece of [TS]

01:25:52   plastic stuck to my dashboard [TS]

01:25:53   semi-permanently but I don't think I [TS]

01:25:56   would ever put an Android phone there [TS]

01:25:57   could you even tell that it's an Android [TS]

01:25:59   phone because doesn't the way he's [TS]

01:26:01   interfacing look the same I would know [TS]

01:26:02   yeah additionally it's clear that [TS]

01:26:06   neither of you have ever owned a radar [TS]

01:26:07   detector or installed one properly [TS]

01:26:09   because on my 300s next my Valentine one [TS]

01:26:12   was hardwired into the car you could see [TS]

01:26:14   wires absolutely nowhere he like took it [TS]

01:26:16   like under the trim and stuff like that [TS]

01:26:18   all right yeah yeah yep and also I had a [TS]

01:26:19   remote display on the steering column so [TS]

01:26:21   the bog the actual radar itself okay so [TS]

01:26:24   you could see us like a couple inches of [TS]

01:26:26   wire going from the radar detector into [TS]

01:26:28   the headliner but the the display for [TS]

01:26:31   the radar detector was mounted on the [TS]

01:26:33   steering column it was a secondary [TS]

01:26:34   display that you could buy and so this [TS]

01:26:36   way nothing lit up in the [TS]

01:26:38   in the windshield area it was only it [TS]

01:26:40   looked like another part of the dash [TS]

01:26:41   from afar I actually saved myself from a [TS]

01:26:44   ticket in Virginia where these are well [TS]

01:26:47   I hypothetically saved myself from a [TS]

01:26:48   ticket in Virginia or these may or may [TS]

01:26:50   not be legal but I haven't used my radar [TS]

01:26:52   detector in years because it's just not [TS]

01:26:54   worth it anymore I don't drive that [TS]

01:26:55   quick I think part of the utility of not [TS]

01:26:57   having a hardwired and having the little [TS]

01:26:58   coiled up you know phone cord wire [TS]

01:27:01   snaking across your thing [TS]

01:27:02   and so you could hastily disconnect it [TS]

01:27:03   and Chuck into your glove box when you [TS]

01:27:05   get pulled over all right let's do some [TS]

01:27:06   ask a TP Stephen the cleaning rights and [TS]

01:27:10   this is continuing in our car theme our [TS]

01:27:11   advanced safety features found in cars [TS]

01:27:13   comparable across manufacturers features [TS]

01:27:15   that use technology like lane departure [TS]

01:27:16   warning forward collision warning and [TS]

01:27:18   blind spot detection are offered in BMWs [TS]

01:27:20   and han dice or high-end eyes whatever [TS]

01:27:22   however you are supposed to pronounce it [TS]

01:27:24   are they equally as effective or are [TS]

01:27:25   they much better in more expensive cars [TS]

01:27:27   how can one compare I don't know the [TS]

01:27:30   answer to this question and I think it [TS]

01:27:31   would be a really fascinating test if [TS]

01:27:32   only I knew someone who did car videos [TS]

01:27:34   from time to time but anyway I I think [TS]

01:27:37   it's a really interesting question but I [TS]

01:27:39   have to imagine that they're nearly [TS]

01:27:42   identical different kind of worms but if [TS]

01:27:47   you're not talking about automated [TS]

01:27:48   driving you're just talking about like [TS]

01:27:49   you know panic stopping on behalf of the [TS]

01:27:51   driver or something like that you know [TS]

01:27:53   nudging the driver back into the lane if [TS]

01:27:55   they're starting to drift [TS]

01:27:57   I would assume and imagine that they're [TS]

01:27:59   not that different between both luxury [TS]

01:28:02   and economy marques would you guys agree [TS]

01:28:05   with that let's start with Marco I mean [TS]

01:28:08   John will tell us the real answer here I [TS]

01:28:09   don't actually from from what I think I [TS]

01:28:12   think these sensors and systems tend to [TS]

01:28:16   be sold to multiple car manufacturers [TS]

01:28:19   that's what I so like like you know like [TS]

01:28:21   there's like there's you know a small [TS]

01:28:22   number of companies that make these [TS]

01:28:24   kinds of systems and then they sell them [TS]

01:28:26   to BMW and Mercedes and it like you know [TS]

01:28:29   like they sell the same thing to models [TS]

01:28:31   of people so I'm sure some people have [TS]

01:28:33   their own stuff or have exclusives deals [TS]

01:28:35   on some of the things but some of the [TS]

01:28:37   features probably are literally [TS]

01:28:38   identical because they're literally [TS]

01:28:40   using the same modules and same software [TS]

01:28:42   and and some of the stuff like you know [TS]

01:28:44   you mentioned like you know lane [TS]

01:28:44   departure warning blind spot detection [TS]

01:28:47   that actually doesn't seem that hard to [TS]

01:28:49   do like the blind spot detection we're [TS]

01:28:51   just kind of like lights up a little [TS]

01:28:52   warning light on your sideview mirror [TS]

01:28:54   when somebody's in your blind spot like [TS]

01:28:55   that I don't think is very complicated [TS]

01:28:58   that seems pretty reliable and pretty [TS]

01:29:00   easy easy to do these days [TS]

01:29:02   so like stuff like that I wouldn't [TS]

01:29:04   expect a lot of variation between [TS]

01:29:05   manufacturers some of the harder things [TS]

01:29:08   like automatic emergency braking like if [TS]

01:29:10   you're about to hit a wall and tries to [TS]

01:29:12   stop that that kind of thing I would [TS]

01:29:14   expect to vary a little more obviously [TS]

01:29:16   as cases anything that tries to steer [TS]

01:29:18   for you like Tesla's autopilot thing I [TS]

01:29:21   would expect that too to vary a lot more [TS]

01:29:24   because it's just a more complex problem [TS]

01:29:25   so John what's the real answer oh I [TS]

01:29:28   don't know I asking me because in the [TS]

01:29:30   same way every car magazine well in the [TS]

01:29:32   same way that I have never owned a car [TS]

01:29:34   that doesn't have three pedals unlike [TS]

01:29:36   everyone else in this podcast I've never [TS]

01:29:37   owned a car with any of these features [TS]

01:29:39   lane-departure forward collision blind [TS]

01:29:42   spot detection I have never had a car [TS]

01:29:44   with any of those features in it so I [TS]

01:29:45   have no idea how they work and honestly [TS]

01:29:47   I've been in the same way with the stick [TS]

01:29:49   shift I have been intentionally avoiding [TS]

01:29:51   those features because as far as I've [TS]

01:29:52   been able to tell from reading things [TS]

01:29:55   about them and being in other people's [TS]

01:29:56   cars that have them they can be super [TS]

01:30:00   annoying if they can't be turned off and [TS]

01:30:03   if I'm turning them off then why the [TS]

01:30:04   hell am I paying extra to get them so I [TS]

01:30:06   that's a John it's so I'm I have thus [TS]

01:30:08   far avoided getting them it's not to say [TS]

01:30:10   that I think they're bad I think they [TS]

01:30:13   are good especially the things I like [TS]

01:30:14   you know will brake automatically for [TS]

01:30:16   you if you're not paying attention and [TS]

01:30:17   stuff like that but I mean and the only [TS]

01:30:19   ones that even been offered on cars that [TS]

01:30:21   I've got are the ones that just use like [TS]

01:30:23   lane departure right and you know I have [TS]

01:30:26   the pre-tensioning seatbelts and stuff I [TS]

01:30:28   have like things that you know pull the [TS]

01:30:29   seat belt tighter when you're in an [TS]

01:30:30   accident but that's not quite the same [TS]

01:30:32   thing as these active systems as for [TS]

01:30:33   what my impression of how they might be [TS]

01:30:36   on fancy cars which is regular cars as [TS]

01:30:39   with all car technology they come out [TS]

01:30:42   first on the expensive cars and so the [TS]

01:30:45   first first time you're gonna see like [TS]

01:30:47   lane departure whatever that was however [TS]

01:30:49   many decades ago was probably on like a [TS]

01:30:51   BMW or Mercedes or some fancy car right [TS]

01:30:53   it was surely an s-class yeah and those [TS]

01:30:55   those features when they first come out [TS]

01:30:58   are not that great like the very first [TS]

01:31:00   anti-lock brakes which was also probably [TS]

01:31:01   on a Mercedes or something like that [TS]

01:31:04   those anti-lock brakes were not [TS]

01:31:06   that great by the time aunty like bricks [TS]

01:31:08   comes down to the Honda Civic it has [TS]

01:31:10   been refined many many times over and at [TS]

01:31:13   the point that you get down to the [TS]

01:31:14   bottom of the the ranks of cars [TS]

01:31:17   anti-lock brakes are more or less the [TS]

01:31:19   same from Mercedes s-class all the way [TS]

01:31:21   down to a Honda Civic become becomes [TS]

01:31:23   commoditized that doesn't really answer [TS]

01:31:25   the question for these things because I [TS]

01:31:27   think they are not yet come on ties [TS]

01:31:28   especially as Marco pointed out things [TS]

01:31:29   to steer the car for you not even close [TS]

01:31:31   to commoditize but I would say right now [TS]

01:31:33   they're bad on the expensive cars and [TS]

01:31:36   non-existent on the cheap cars so I [TS]

01:31:39   don't like for features like that if you [TS]

01:31:43   run out and get the expensive car just [TS]

01:31:45   to get the feature you're probably [TS]

01:31:46   getting the worst version of that [TS]

01:31:47   feature that is ever going to exist [TS]

01:31:49   whereas if you ignore that feature for a [TS]

01:31:50   couple of decades by the time it [TS]

01:31:51   trickles down to your $15,000 car it'll [TS]

01:31:54   be about the same across the entire line [TS]

01:31:56   across the entire auto industry that is [TS]

01:31:58   self driving is so much more complicated [TS]

01:32:01   I'm not sure if that applies to but [TS]

01:32:02   things like lane departure and anti-lock [TS]

01:32:04   brakes and the front collision warnings [TS]

01:32:05   and even like a auto following cruise [TS]

01:32:09   control yeah radar cruise that I feel [TS]

01:32:11   like you know is filtering down pretty [TS]

01:32:13   well now and maybe it's not entirely the [TS]

01:32:16   same across the lines maybe it's a [TS]

01:32:18   little bit harsher on the bottom ones [TS]

01:32:19   but it's way better than the very first [TS]

01:32:21   radar cruise control that came out you [TS]

01:32:23   know in the 80s or whatever on cadillac [TS]

01:32:25   or whoever did it first I will say that [TS]

01:32:27   on Aaron's car she has you know pretty [TS]

01:32:29   much all of these features and the lane [TS]

01:32:33   departure or leaned control whatever is [TS]

01:32:35   tremendous I love it it will just gently [TS]

01:32:38   nudge you back in the lane and if you [TS]

01:32:39   start to drift a little bit or whatever [TS]

01:32:40   the case may be and it works really well [TS]

01:32:42   I really really like it a lot the panic [TS]

01:32:47   stop what is it called I forget the [TS]

01:32:49   forward collision warning that [TS]

01:32:51   definitely does have some false alarms [TS]

01:32:54   from time to time now the good news is [TS]

01:32:56   it's a false alarm that's where it tries [TS]

01:32:59   for just a flash to stop when it doesn't [TS]

01:33:01   need to and I'd rather that then it you [TS]

01:33:04   know just to see oh I'm sure it's great [TS]

01:33:05   and then we plow into a wall you know [TS]

01:33:07   but nevertheless it does occasionally go [TS]

01:33:10   Wow and in it you know kind of just it [TS]

01:33:13   like instantaneously stands on the [TS]

01:33:15   brakes for you and then immediately [TS]

01:33:16   let's go oh wow boy is that startling [TS]

01:33:20   oh my word is that startling yeah that [TS]

01:33:21   would scare the crap out of me like I [TS]

01:33:23   have I have like the audible alerts and [TS]

01:33:25   I and my car offers automatic emergency [TS]

01:33:28   braking but I've never had it engaged I [TS]

01:33:31   mean all at all I I do think it is good [TS]

01:33:34   and worth it because God forbid I'm not [TS]

01:33:36   paying attention and something happens [TS]

01:33:37   but there are definitely some false [TS]

01:33:39   alarms on it and that's kind of [TS]

01:33:40   frustrating and that actually reminds me [TS]

01:33:42   that on the Grand Cherokee that I [TS]

01:33:44   briefly borrowed before I got the Julia [TS]

01:33:46   I noticed that every time I was at a [TS]

01:33:49   stoplight I think I might have talked [TS]

01:33:50   about this on the show I was at a [TS]

01:33:51   two-lane stop yesterday I'm making a [TS]

01:33:53   left and you know I was adjacent to [TS]

01:33:55   somebody I would start to make the left [TS]

01:33:57   and it would go berserk because I [TS]

01:33:58   thought I was I was having a collision [TS]

01:34:00   with the person next to me and that was [TS]

01:34:02   really annoying [TS]

01:34:03   but that's the only instance I can think [TS]

01:34:05   of where I've seen dramatically [TS]

01:34:06   different behavior on safety stuff [TS]

01:34:08   between different different [TS]

01:34:11   manufacturers but I as we've all said I [TS]

01:34:13   think self-driving is a totally [TS]

01:34:15   different conversation that has not yet [TS]

01:34:17   really been standardized the next one is [TS]

01:34:19   mostly from Marco this is Geoff Cooney [TS]

01:34:21   writing what is the deal with Leica [TS]

01:34:23   cameras I've always loved their [TS]

01:34:24   industrial design particularly the M [TS]

01:34:26   models but upon doing some research it [TS]

01:34:27   seems like their features in spray specs [TS]

01:34:29   are no better than other cameras from [TS]

01:34:30   leading companies like canon or sony [TS]

01:34:32   that cost thousands of dollars less what [TS]

01:34:34   am I missing about these cameras that [TS]

01:34:35   commands this exorbitant premium I don't [TS]

01:34:37   know anything about like the cameras [TS]

01:34:38   other than that they look pretty and [TS]

01:34:39   that they're super duper expensive so [TS]

01:34:41   I'm actually kind of curious as well [TS]

01:34:42   Marco what's the story here like has [TS]

01:34:44   been around for a very long time and [TS]

01:34:46   they have some really impressive [TS]

01:34:48   engineering and they have built up a [TS]

01:34:50   really strong reputation for a very long [TS]

01:34:54   time among high-end usually like more [TS]

01:34:57   artsy or hobbyist photographers not [TS]

01:35:00   necessarily pros because they don't [TS]

01:35:02   quite make gear that would satisfy most [TS]

01:35:04   like pro needs if you're like a wedding [TS]

01:35:06   photographer or something like you know [TS]

01:35:07   you probably not using a Leica for lots [TS]

01:35:08   of reasons but the they are very very [TS]

01:35:13   expensive and some of that you are just [TS]

01:35:16   paying for the brand but they do have a [TS]

01:35:20   lot of good qualities that make them [TS]

01:35:22   compelling to certain people some of it [TS]

01:35:24   is just like if you have a lot of money [TS]

01:35:26   and you want really a really cool camera [TS]

01:35:28   like you go like it like some I've heard [TS]

01:35:30   I've heard them called dentist cameras [TS]

01:35:33   but Wow yeah but and I I should clarify [TS]

01:35:37   I have very little experience with them [TS]

01:35:38   I rented an m9 for Christmas a few years [TS]

01:35:41   ago I actually made a big blog post with [TS]

01:35:43   some simple pictures about it and and I [TS]

01:35:45   found what a lot of people find I think [TS]

01:35:47   with them is that like the raw specs of [TS]

01:35:51   it were not very competitive especially [TS]

01:35:54   for the price things like the sensor [TS]

01:35:56   like the noise performance and the [TS]

01:35:59   resolution on the sensor was nowhere [TS]

01:36:01   near competitive with good sensors that [TS]

01:36:03   you know of the same time frame things [TS]

01:36:05   like you know the burst rate and [TS]

01:36:07   features like like I don't think any of [TS]

01:36:10   them offer video you know or least they [TS]

01:36:11   didn't for a long time it it seems like [TS]

01:36:14   you're paying a really high price for [TS]

01:36:17   not top-of-the-line technology within [TS]

01:36:20   them but what really impressed me about [TS]

01:36:23   like a back then and what still [TS]

01:36:24   impresses me today about them is two [TS]

01:36:28   major areas number one the optics in [TS]

01:36:32   their lenses are just incredible now [TS]

01:36:35   when I when I when I rented the m9 and [TS]

01:36:37   vert this post back in in Christmas of [TS]

01:36:39   2012 Sony the Sony Fe II series was not [TS]

01:36:43   really quite there yet I think it either [TS]

01:36:45   wasn't out or was it was just the very [TS]

01:36:46   first models and Canon had not updated a [TS]

01:36:50   lot of their lenses the way they have [TS]

01:36:51   recently and so at back then in 2012 the [TS]

01:36:55   Leica M lenses were some of the best [TS]

01:36:58   lenses you could get in the industry and [TS]

01:37:00   to get the like what blew me away with [TS]

01:37:03   with my rental of it was the sheer [TS]

01:37:07   optical quality that this like basic [TS]

01:37:10   small lens provided it was it was a 35 [TS]

01:37:14   millimeter you know f2 prime something [TS]

01:37:18   zoom Acron something I don't know [TS]

01:37:20   and it and it was like a $3,000 lens [TS]

01:37:23   like I mean that's it this is why I [TS]

01:37:23   rented a but it was still like the [TS]

01:37:26   optical quality blew me away now today [TS]

01:37:31   we have a lot more options that also [TS]

01:37:33   provide really good optical quality like [TS]

01:37:35   basically in the last you know five [TS]

01:37:37   years or so there's been a huge [TS]

01:37:39   revolution in lens design especially [TS]

01:37:42   coming out of Sony and then later on [TS]

01:37:44   coming [TS]

01:37:45   and unfortunately Nikon people I haven't [TS]

01:37:48   been following Nikon that closely I [TS]

01:37:49   apologize again but you know clearly [TS]

01:37:52   like the the massive upgrade in lens [TS]

01:37:54   quality and in krez Ellucian especially [TS]

01:37:57   coming out of Sony and Canon over the [TS]

01:37:59   last few years has been astronomical and [TS]

01:38:00   so like now I feel like you can get [TS]

01:38:04   similar optical quality if not even [TS]

01:38:06   maybe better optical quality out of [TS]

01:38:08   lenses from other manufacturers but back [TS]

01:38:10   then you couldn't so that was one thing [TS]

01:38:12   that blew me away that's still like I'm [TS]

01:38:13   looking looking at this blog post I made [TS]

01:38:15   like still to this day it's still really [TS]

01:38:19   really good optics and really good [TS]

01:38:22   pictures coming out of this the second [TS]

01:38:23   thing that like it has going for it a [TS]

01:38:25   lot of the times is that the way a [TS]

01:38:28   camera interprets the data coming off of [TS]

01:38:30   its sensors is not all the same between [TS]

01:38:34   different camera manufacturers every [TS]

01:38:35   manufacturer and oftentimes even between [TS]

01:38:37   different models have different ways of [TS]

01:38:39   interpreting the the raw sensor data and [TS]

01:38:42   then they have different ways to apply [TS]

01:38:45   things like color tone and color balance [TS]

01:38:47   and contrast and sharpening and things [TS]

01:38:49   like that you know the what you get off [TS]

01:38:51   the raw sensor is not anywhere close to [TS]

01:38:55   the final picture with any camera iPhone [TS]

01:38:57   all the way up to you know like a em [TS]

01:38:59   whatever like us processing of the [TS]

01:39:03   photos is just really appealing to me [TS]

01:39:05   and a lot of people like the way it [TS]

01:39:07   renders colors the way it renders [TS]

01:39:09   contrast and things like it just makes [TS]

01:39:11   really nice pictures without a lot of [TS]

01:39:14   effort without having to do a lot of [TS]

01:39:16   post-processing on them or without [TS]

01:39:18   having to like manually tweak a lot of [TS]

01:39:20   the colors and color balance and [TS]

01:39:21   everything else it's again this is [TS]

01:39:23   another ones area where it's a lot of [TS]

01:39:24   interest personal preference like like [TS]

01:39:26   TIFF does not like the way my Sony [TS]

01:39:28   cameras render colors she she she can't [TS]

01:39:31   get the color balance she wants out of [TS]

01:39:32   my Sony's I can't get the color balance [TS]

01:39:35   I want out of canons it's it's it's a [TS]

01:39:37   personal preference and Leica has its [TS]

01:39:39   own color balancing that it does that to [TS]

01:39:43   me is just incredibly appealing and and [TS]

01:39:45   that's been one of the only things [TS]

01:39:46   that's ever really tempted me to give [TS]

01:39:48   that another try maybe and maybe even [TS]

01:39:49   buy one is just like the color rendering [TS]

01:39:51   is just incredible on them and and the [TS]

01:39:53   way it renders tones and everything it's [TS]

01:39:55   just really nice so there's areas about [TS]

01:39:58   photography [TS]

01:39:59   that aren't just about the specs and [TS]

01:40:01   this it's hard for it especially because [TS]

01:40:03   I was getting into this at this hobby [TS]

01:40:04   and as I've developed over time you know [TS]

01:40:06   in this hobby it's been hard for me to [TS]

01:40:08   learn that and and to feel that that [TS]

01:40:10   like to me it was so much all about [TS]

01:40:12   specs for so long but now I'm realizing [TS]

01:40:15   like there's more to it than that and so [TS]

01:40:18   the appeal of Leica in part it is yes [TS]

01:40:21   like you know like a rich dentist slash [TS]

01:40:23   hipster thing because they're cool but [TS]

01:40:25   it's there's reasons that you would buy [TS]

01:40:28   it that aren't just because it's cool [TS]

01:40:29   like it actually backs that up with [TS]

01:40:31   really nice photo processing really nice [TS]

01:40:33   you know tones and colors and everything [TS]

01:40:35   and it's just stunningly good optics in [TS]

01:40:39   most of their lenses so that being said [TS]

01:40:41   there's also a couple other like you [TS]

01:40:43   know they have so many different models [TS]

01:40:44   now it's hard to keep track so [TS]

01:40:45   everything I just said was based on my [TS]

01:40:47   experience with the m9 that's been [TS]

01:40:49   updated lots since then there's other [TS]

01:40:51   full-frame rangefinder models there's [TS]

01:40:54   there they have a couple of mirrorless [TS]

01:40:56   ones I don't know if they have [TS]

01:40:57   interchangeable lens yet it's hard to [TS]

01:40:59   keep track honestly because they [TS]

01:41:00   actually do a fair number of models [TS]

01:41:01   these days they have some that only [TS]

01:41:02   shoot in black and white and actually [TS]

01:41:04   have to play with that one that the [TS]

01:41:05   black and white only one it was like [TS]

01:41:06   some kind of like meryl asthenia direct [TS]

01:41:09   competitor to the Sony rx1 what blew me [TS]

01:41:12   away about it was compared to at the [TS]

01:41:15   time my a7 r2 that I had it was way more [TS]

01:41:19   responsive like you could the viewfinder [TS]

01:41:23   it was like the difference between like [TS]

01:41:24   15 frames per second and 60 frames a [TS]

01:41:26   second like it was like the viewfinder [TS]

01:41:28   was like just it was like looking [TS]

01:41:29   through a piece of glass like it was [TS]

01:41:30   even though it was electronic you know [TS]

01:41:32   looking through a sensor it was just so [TS]

01:41:34   such a high refresh rate so should i [TS]

01:41:35   frame rate was just precise fast you can [TS]

01:41:38   snap pictures just boom boom boom boom [TS]

01:41:39   boom it would not slow down it just [TS]

01:41:41   handled really well it was very [TS]

01:41:43   satisfying to use and again the tones I [TS]

01:41:46   that I saw out of that graph this was [TS]

01:41:47   like literally playing with a friend's [TS]

01:41:49   camera at a conference for five minutes [TS]

01:41:50   so I didn't get a lot of use out of it [TS]

01:41:51   but like it was very compelling and if [TS]

01:41:53   at the time I had a need for a fixed [TS]

01:41:57   lens camera that you couldn't change [TS]

01:41:58   lenses on where I actually wanted that [TS]

01:41:59   particular lens I would have seriously [TS]

01:42:01   considered that so yet more qualities [TS]

01:42:05   that cameras can have that are not about [TS]

01:42:08   specs and that are hard hard to get in [TS]

01:42:11   reviews or [TS]

01:42:12   if you might mention it but you might [TS]

01:42:14   zoom past it because you think it's BS [TS]

01:42:15   or or you don't think that's a speck or [TS]

01:42:17   you don't care but Leica has earned the [TS]

01:42:20   reputation for good reasons they might [TS]

01:42:22   not line up with what you want in a [TS]

01:42:24   camera and they you know it's up to you [TS]

01:42:27   whether you think it's worth they're [TS]

01:42:28   quite high prices but there are reasons [TS]

01:42:31   for it that's interesting [TS]

01:42:33   I'm surprised you don't have one I mean [TS]

01:42:36   you don't know that I don't have one no [TS]

01:42:38   I don't have you also need to call [TS]

01:42:40   attention to this adorable picture of [TS]

01:42:42   baby Adam in this post my little thanks [TS]

01:42:47   for sponsors this week away Linode and [TS]

01:42:49   ero and we'll talk to you next week now [TS]

01:42:54   the show is over [TS]

01:42:56   they didn't even need to begin because [TS]

01:42:59   it was accidental accidental [TS]

01:43:03   [Music] [TS]

01:43:06   research Marco and Casey wouldn't let [TS]

01:43:08   him cuz it was accidentally was [TS]

01:43:13   accidental and you can find the show [TS]

01:43:16   notes a day follow them CAS UIL ISS so [TS]

01:43:29   that's Casey less and a RC own a RM ante [TS]

01:43:34   Marco Arment are a Syracuse [TS]

01:43:53   do we have your baby updates it's mostly [TS]

01:43:56   find actually the thing that's that's I [TS]

01:43:58   maybe not interesting but the the the [TS]

01:44:00   thing that we've been fighting with [TS]

01:44:01   lately is we moved Declan to a toddler [TS]

01:44:06   bed or whatever you call it so basically [TS]

01:44:08   instead of being in a full-on crib he's [TS]

01:44:10   in a bed that he can easily climb out of [TS]

01:44:12   and has been for a few months now I [TS]

01:44:15   forget exactly how long but it's been a [TS]

01:44:17   not insignificant insignificant amount [TS]

01:44:19   of time but over the last couple of [TS]

01:44:22   weeks particularly this is this had [TS]

01:44:24   started before Michaela but it's been [TS]

01:44:25   particularly egregious the last vault a [TS]

01:44:27   few days most especially but egregious [TS]

01:44:30   in general in the last few weeks he'll [TS]

01:44:32   get out of his bed and tell us like come [TS]

01:44:34   to our room record you know whatever the [TS]

01:44:35   case may be and tell us I don't like [TS]

01:44:37   sleep time or I'm hungry or I'm thirsty [TS]

01:44:41   or my favorite legitimate complaints how [TS]

01:44:43   are you addressing this I'm hungry in so [TS]

01:44:46   many in a very very gentle way I'm [TS]

01:44:48   obviously paraphrasing but I'm hungry [TS]

01:44:49   tough noogies he should have eaten more [TS]

01:44:51   before we warned you about this before [TS]

01:44:52   he came upstairs you're not getting any [TS]

01:44:54   more food I'm thirsty is here's a little [TS]

01:44:56   you know cup of water drink it and then [TS]

01:44:59   you're done and then eventually actually [TS]

01:45:01   have gotten to the point of leaving him [TS]

01:45:02   a bottle of water in his room just to [TS]

01:45:04   get away from the I'm thirsty complaints [TS]

01:45:06   you know the answer as well you have a [TS]

01:45:07   bottle of water in your room drink it [TS]

01:45:09   but my favorite is I don't like rest [TS]

01:45:12   time in which case it's like well how do [TS]

01:45:14   you say to a three-year-old tough shit [TS]

01:45:15   this happens every night like you know [TS]

01:45:17   there's no reasoning with them do they [TS]

01:45:19   ever come in and say I missed the love [TS]

01:45:22   that his baby stole for me no not yet [TS]

01:45:24   not yet dark because I feel like that's [TS]

01:45:27   what he's saying maybe maybe it is and [TS]

01:45:29   I'm trying to stay cool about it [TS]

01:45:30   couldn't be the universal kid thing of I [TS]

01:45:33   don't want to go to sleep right now well [TS]

01:45:35   and that's what that's what I've been [TS]

01:45:36   attributing it to genuine well you know [TS]

01:45:38   he's describing this as a change in [TS]

01:45:40   behavior so I'm saying what's changed [TS]

01:45:41   recently in declan's life well it's [TS]

01:45:43   gotten worse since Michaela like you I [TS]

01:45:45   think you're both right to be honest and [TS]

01:45:47   I think I personally come down more on [TS]

01:45:49   marco side but again I think you're both [TS]

01:45:50   right it started before Michaela but got [TS]

01:45:52   worse in the last week or two and my [TS]

01:45:56   favorite is when he comes out of his [TS]

01:45:57   room Declan why are you out of your room [TS]

01:45:59   I don't [TS]

01:46:01   yeah you can tell like even like what [TS]

01:46:04   Adam does that too sometimes and it's [TS]

01:46:05   like you can tell like you know what do [TS]

01:46:06   you need you can tell the gears start [TS]

01:46:08   turning at that point to come up with [TS]

01:46:10   something say it's so true I mean so one [TS]

01:46:14   one issue is is he's still napping right [TS]

01:46:17   well sort of so right he he has quiet [TS]

01:46:22   time in his room where he is allowed to [TS]

01:46:25   like get out of bed and play quietly or [TS]

01:46:27   whatever and I would say between a third [TS]

01:46:29   and a half of the days he will actually [TS]

01:46:31   sleep for that and the other two-thirds [TS]

01:46:34   we over half to two-thirds he's just [TS]

01:46:36   sitting there playing in his room or in [TS]

01:46:37   his bed yeah so what we found and what I [TS]

01:46:39   think a couple of our friends have also [TS]

01:46:41   found so it seems to be a thing is you [TS]

01:46:43   know obviously like when you're [TS]

01:46:45   transitioning out of nap phase really [TS]

01:46:47   like yeah yeah yeah you're go to the [TS]

01:46:48   point where most days he shouldn't be [TS]

01:46:51   having a nap and what we found is that [TS]

01:46:53   when we were in that phase the days that [TS]

01:46:56   he would nap would be the days that he [TS]

01:46:58   would just be impossible to keep in bed [TS]

01:47:00   because he just wasn't tired enough like [TS]

01:47:03   it when you start think about that way [TS]

01:47:04   it's like well you're the best thing you [TS]

01:47:06   can do it sounds like you're probably at [TS]

01:47:09   that phase so just stop napping like me [TS]

01:47:11   and and do what you can to make it that [TS]

01:47:13   he does not nap like don't like take a [TS]

01:47:16   long car drive right in the [TS]

01:47:17   mid-afternoon interface and even like [TS]

01:47:19   that like don't like trying to give him [TS]

01:47:21   a chance to nap try to keep him from [TS]

01:47:24   doing that by various activity planning [TS]

01:47:25   or anything because then when bed time [TS]

01:47:28   rolls around he will be tired enough [TS]

01:47:31   that he will just go to bed and and not [TS]

01:47:34   give you as hard of a time about it [TS]

01:47:35   because he'll just be so tired like [TS]

01:47:37   that's what we found you have to think [TS]

01:47:39   about moving his bed time to because [TS]

01:47:40   like I know like you have a routine [TS]

01:47:42   you're like great we have a child and [TS]

01:47:43   the child owes goes to bed at X o'clock [TS]

01:47:45   that is going to change and it's not [TS]

01:47:47   going to change like on its own you have [TS]

01:47:49   to consciously think oh he's not six [TS]

01:47:51   months anymore now he's three should his [TS]

01:47:53   bedtime be different right and repeat [TS]

01:47:55   until they're five and 10 and 13 like [TS]

01:47:58   you can't as much as I love would love [TS]

01:48:00   to do i love the naps I love being let's [TS]

01:48:02   put the kids to bed at 7:30 with that [TS]

01:48:03   sadly does not last yeah I don't know I [TS]

01:48:06   mean it's fine and the grand scheme of [TS]

01:48:07   things things could be so much until [TS]

01:48:09   until they encroach on every waking hour [TS]

01:48:11   of your [TS]

01:48:12   well life's like wait a second if by the [TS]

01:48:14   time the kids are in bed it's time for [TS]

01:48:15   me to go to bed when is my time you're [TS]

01:48:17   like that's right it's gone it's gone [TS]

01:48:19   isn't it no naps and they go to bed at [TS]

01:48:21   the same time as you welcome to your [TS]

01:48:25   future [TS]

01:48:25   future [TS]

00:00:00   so anyway so what you ordered Shake [TS]

00:00:01   Shack I'm still jealous so TIFF and I [TS]

00:00:03   have you know we go on special occasions [TS]

00:00:05   on time to the Shake Shack normally our [TS]

00:00:06   order is a Shack burger each which is [TS]

00:00:09   the cheeseburger like the basic like one [TS]

00:00:12   patty cheeseburger [TS]

00:00:13   which is somewhat small so a Shack [TS]

00:00:17   burger each we share in order of cheese [TS]

00:00:19   fries and we share a black-and-white [TS]

00:00:21   shake solid today we decide because [TS]

00:00:25   every time when you finish that burger [TS]

00:00:26   because it's such a good burger but it's [TS]

00:00:29   also a relatively small burger every [TS]

00:00:32   time you order that you think I wonder [TS]

00:00:33   if I could have gotten away with a [TS]

00:00:34   second burger so today we decided to [TS]

00:00:39   splurge being that his Valentine's Day [TS]

00:00:41   this was our special trip to the city [TS]

00:00:42   just to eat Shake Shack and we got three [TS]

00:00:45   burgers and we cut the third one in half [TS]

00:00:47   so we each had 1.5 burgers that is [TS]

00:00:50   actually a very good choice yeah and it [TS]

00:00:53   turned out we were pretty full but it [TS]

00:00:56   was not like a mistake well you really [TS]

00:00:59   you really uh you know stress yourself [TS]

00:01:02   out a little bit with all the top four [TS]

00:01:03   episodes now you're able to handle that [TS]

00:01:05   much exactly there is the no Shake Shack [TS]

00:01:10   anywhere near me I think the nearest one [TS]

00:01:12   is in DC which is like a two-hour drive [TS]

00:01:13   and it makes me so sad because you know [TS]

00:01:16   as with what is it in and out like in [TS]

00:01:18   and out I think is very tasty but a [TS]

00:01:21   little bit overrated and I think with [TS]

00:01:24   Shake Shack I would say it's less [TS]

00:01:26   overrated but but what I'm driving at is [TS]

00:01:28   that some of the appeal is that it is [TS]

00:01:30   not approximate is that'll work the word [TS]

00:01:33   I'm looking for it's not near me and so [TS]

00:01:35   because it's not near me I seek it and [TS]

00:01:38   yearn for it in a way that I very much [TS]

00:01:39   do for in and out even though I would [TS]

00:01:42   say like you know in and out is good [TS]

00:01:44   where Shake Shack is great I'm surprised [TS]

00:01:46   you asked mark or what he got at Shake [TS]

00:01:48   Shack [TS]

00:01:48   there's like nothing on that menu they [TS]

00:01:52   expanded it quite a bit over the last [TS]

00:01:53   couple years like there's like as [TS]

00:01:55   they've expanded what well there's [TS]

00:01:57   there's like burgers there's chicken [TS]

00:01:59   sandwich now there's oh there's always [TS]

00:02:00   the mushroom vegetarian sandwich I think [TS]

00:02:03   there's a treatment option now there's [TS]

00:02:04   hot dogs that there's a lot like there's [TS]

00:02:06   no about the hotdog they've got like two [TS]

00:02:08   kinds of burgers a hot dog a bunch of [TS]

00:02:10   different kinds of shakes and fries that [TS]

00:02:11   are not [TS]

00:02:12   good and the mushroom burger don't [TS]

00:02:13   forget that I said a bunch of different [TS]

00:02:15   kinds of burgers I get the Shack burger [TS]

00:02:16   to this it's like that's you know I [TS]

00:02:18   don't variety we're just fine [TS]

00:02:20   I like the burger it's a good burger but [TS]

00:02:22   uh it has better fries I don't think [TS]

00:02:24   I've had it and out before I have had [TS]

00:02:26   five guys there's those around here and [TS]

00:02:28   I find them incredibly disappointing I [TS]

00:02:30   don't I don't think five guys is even in [TS]

00:02:32   the same league like to me five guys I'd [TS]

00:02:34   rather just have like McDonald's or [TS]

00:02:36   Burger King or Wendy's like it's it's in [TS]

00:02:38   that it's at that little way you're [TS]

00:02:39   insane Five Guys is so much better than [TS]

00:02:41   McDonald's burger right so hold on so [TS]

00:02:42   five guys if I'm not mistaken started [TS]

00:02:44   either in Virginia in the DC suburbs or [TS]

00:02:46   in DC proper and so I feel some amount [TS]

00:02:49   of need to defend Five Guys five guys to [TS]

00:02:51   me is the kind of burger you have once a [TS]

00:02:53   year because it is this is here's a [TS]

00:02:56   Simpsons reference for you jobs it takes [TS]

00:02:57   you a year to forget how bad it is and [TS]

00:02:59   how worth it it isn't and Shake Shack is [TS]

00:03:04   better but five guys I think is pretty [TS]

00:03:06   good so here's the thing with five guys [TS]

00:03:10   though is that it's so unbelievably and [TS]

00:03:12   unabashedly greasy not to say it's not [TS]

00:03:14   tasty but it's so greasy I don't think [TS]

00:03:17   so I think I think Shake Shack is grease [TS]

00:03:18   easier than five guys let's see I [TS]

00:03:20   haven't had five guys in a while so [TS]

00:03:21   maybe right but the point I'm driving at [TS]

00:03:23   it's like dr. Nick when he was telling [TS]

00:03:24   Homer how to get fat and he just like [TS]

00:03:26   held up a piece of chicken or something [TS]

00:03:28   like that to the wall or to a piece of [TS]

00:03:29   paper or something I don't remember the [TS]

00:03:30   exact reference but you know basically [TS]

00:03:32   says hey if it's see-through then you [TS]

00:03:34   can eat it and that's how you gonna get [TS]

00:03:35   really fat I feel like that's I feel [TS]

00:03:37   like that's five guys yeah and so I feel [TS]

00:03:40   it even if I only have like my typical [TS]

00:03:42   order is a little bacon cheeseburger and [TS]

00:03:44   I say that as I go off and I go again [TS]

00:03:46   like once a year but I feel like after I [TS]

00:03:49   have my little bacon cheeseburger and [TS]

00:03:51   fries I feel like a beach I love that [TS]

00:03:53   it's called a little burger - dude like [TS]

00:03:55   I love it like they make you like trying [TS]

00:03:58   to shame you into not overeating it's [TS]

00:03:59   like they make you say the indignity of [TS]

00:04:01   like can I have the little burger please [TS]

00:04:03   like its shape check if you say The [TS]

00:04:05   Shack burger the Shack burger is [TS]

00:04:06   available in single or double patty but [TS]

00:04:08   the default is single which is probably [TS]

00:04:10   what you should get like you don't have [TS]

00:04:12   to say can I please have the smallest [TS]

00:04:13   burger you have even though that's what [TS]

00:04:14   it is [TS]

00:04:15   yeah so anyway so the point of driving [TS]

00:04:17   out is after I eat one I or after I eat [TS]

00:04:21   at five guys I need like six months to a [TS]

00:04:22   year to recover because I feel like a [TS]

00:04:24   beached whale and [TS]

00:04:25   you gotta you gotta train yourself up [TS]

00:04:26   because we get five guys here all the [TS]

00:04:28   time I mean shit we have Shake Shack and [TS]

00:04:29   five guys both close to us so we get [TS]

00:04:30   them both plenty and yeah I think what [TS]

00:04:34   you're thinking with the grease bomb is [TS]

00:04:35   Five Guys fries they're just grease [TS]

00:04:37   bombs and are varying quality and they [TS]

00:04:39   give you like that's the thing about [TS]

00:04:41   five guys they give you [TS]

00:04:42   I think it's must be in their manual [TS]

00:04:44   when somebody artist fries fill up [TS]

00:04:46   whatever cup size they told you to it [TS]

00:04:48   does more but also dump a whole bunch [TS]

00:04:50   more which is fine like as far like [TS]

00:04:52   place it in a bag and then pour more [TS]

00:04:54   fries on top of it such that the entire [TS]

00:04:56   bottom of the bag so your cup of fries [TS]

00:04:59   is padded from damage by other fries and [TS]

00:05:02   I think that's a good corporate policy [TS]

00:05:04   because potatoes are cheap right and [TS]

00:05:07   they've got them stacked up in the thing [TS]

00:05:08   there and they give you more than you [TS]

00:05:10   could ever possibly want some people [TS]

00:05:11   feel like that's generous especially for [TS]

00:05:13   the ridiculous prices everybody charges [TS]

00:05:14   for these rehearse right for you know it [TS]

00:05:17   seems like five guys fans rave about [TS]

00:05:20   their fries a lot honestly I find them [TS]

00:05:22   absolutely nothing special and maybe [TS]

00:05:25   maybe this is just because the five guys [TS]

00:05:26   nearest to us might may be just a [TS]

00:05:28   terrible location like maybe it's just a [TS]

00:05:30   bad five guys but again one area where I [TS]

00:05:32   think Shake Shack has done very well is [TS]

00:05:34   it so far I've eaten that probably five [TS]

00:05:36   or six distinct Shake Shack locations [TS]

00:05:37   and they are remarkably consistent they [TS]

00:05:40   are all that they've all been [TS]

00:05:41   consistently good for me everything [TS]

00:05:43   tastes like exactly the same what are [TS]

00:05:44   you what are your uh Shake Shack fries [TS]

00:05:47   what what kind of that because they've [TS]

00:05:48   changed them and it might be location [TS]

00:05:49   specific we have what used I guess what [TS]

00:05:51   used to be the only kind which is they [TS]

00:05:53   almost look like frozen crinkle-cut [TS]

00:05:55   fries yep all right that's what we have [TS]

00:05:56   to but they they went to shoestring for [TS]

00:05:58   a while near us and it was grim no [TS]

00:06:00   that's that's bad that's bad it can be [TS]

00:06:02   good but their's weren't those we're not [TS]

00:06:04   good so they changed back but but I [TS]

00:06:05   think the griot fries are not [TS]

00:06:07   particularly good oh I think they're [TS]

00:06:09   wonderful to me like Shake Shack fries [TS]

00:06:11   they taste like like frozen fries from [TS]

00:06:15   your childhood except done really well [TS]

00:06:17   and also I don't find them greasy really [TS]

00:06:20   at all like you know beyond what you [TS]

00:06:22   know the minimum required to deep-fry [TS]

00:06:23   something but like you know where Five [TS]

00:06:26   Guys fries I feel like could make a [TS]

00:06:27   piece of paper clear by just going near [TS]

00:06:29   that piece of paper I Shake Shack fries [TS]

00:06:31   really don't seem greasy at least five [TS]

00:06:34   guys has the Cajun option if you get [TS]

00:06:35   sick of the regular fries [TS]

00:06:36   yeah but Shake Shack fries are so good [TS]

00:06:37   you don't get sick of them you [TS]

00:06:38   put cheese on top of them and the cheese [TS]

00:06:41   fries are really good no the cheese is [TS]

00:06:43   gross it's like Cheez Whiz like it's [TS]

00:06:45   Casey's Velveeta it's nope it's kind of [TS]

00:06:47   it's it's like it's lighter in color [TS]

00:06:49   than like a slice of American cheese or [TS]

00:06:51   like most nacho cheese sauce I don't use [TS]

00:06:52   food it's definitely some kind of you [TS]

00:06:54   know well it is because it melts very [TS]

00:06:56   well but it's it's a really nice like [TS]

00:06:59   somewhat mild cheese sauce these [TS]

00:07:01   distributions always really nice and [TS]

00:07:03   they give you that little wooden stick [TS]

00:07:04   to pick up the fries with it's so good [TS]

00:07:06   i'm with marco in this however i do need [TS]

00:07:08   to also bring up for those of us who are [TS]

00:07:09   from mr. Velveeta was the fake cheese [TS]

00:07:12   surprise surprise I also need to bring [TS]

00:07:15   up for those of you who live south of [TS]

00:07:17   the mason-dixon specifically in or [TS]

00:07:19   around North Carolina there's a chain [TS]

00:07:21   called cookout wherein you can get a [TS]

00:07:23   truly heinous amount of food for a [TS]

00:07:26   hilariously small amount of money and if [TS]

00:07:29   you've never experienced cookout but [TS]

00:07:31   have the opportunity you need to try it [TS]

00:07:32   and cook out their burgers taste [TS]

00:07:35   guess what like you had just cooked them [TS]

00:07:38   at a cookout or as some people is it [TS]

00:07:40   where is it that they call any sort of [TS]

00:07:42   like picnicky cookout thing of barbecue [TS]

00:07:44   which is completely bananas is that the [TS]

00:07:45   northeast of the whole country except [TS]

00:07:47   for the south BBQ is its own thing [TS]

00:07:50   anyway honestly I gotta say I don't like [TS]

00:07:53   I don't and I'm using the lowercase [TS]

00:07:55   version of the cookout word here I don't [TS]

00:07:57   like cookout burgers most of the time [TS]

00:07:59   burgers I in my opinion are best made on [TS]

00:08:02   a flat griddle surface whereas when you [TS]

00:08:05   put it on like that the rack of a grill [TS]

00:08:06   especially the way most people you know [TS]

00:08:08   most most people or just amateur you [TS]

00:08:11   know barbecue cooks or grill cooks [TS]

00:08:13   whatever whatever word you use for the [TS]

00:08:14   that large metal box that you would put [TS]

00:08:16   hamburgers and hot dogs in for me my [TS]

00:08:19   move is always to go for the hot dogs [TS]

00:08:20   because first of all it they're they're [TS]

00:08:23   less filling usually so like you can [TS]

00:08:25   have just one or you can have two [TS]

00:08:26   depending on how hungry you are you get [TS]

00:08:28   a more room for the side dishes which [TS]

00:08:29   are always better or one and a half if [TS]

00:08:31   you're yeah it's and and hot dogs are [TS]

00:08:36   pretty much impossible to screw up that [TS]

00:08:39   badly [TS]

00:08:39   whereas burgers on people's grills are [TS]

00:08:41   always usually they're way overdone [TS]

00:08:44   they're also usually way underseasoned [TS]

00:08:46   and a hot dog you put it on the grill [TS]

00:08:49   it's already cooked you just need to [TS]

00:08:51   make it warm [TS]

00:08:52   and maybe you get a little bit of like a [TS]

00:08:54   split on the skin like a little bit of [TS]

00:08:55   the bubbly nice on the skin from the [TS]

00:08:57   heat and that's it you put it in a bun [TS]

00:08:58   you put anything or nothing on it and [TS]

00:09:01   it's delicious [TS]

00:09:01   it totally takes the the barbecue cook [TS]

00:09:04   out of the equation unless they like [TS]

00:09:06   seriously horribly burn it but that's [TS]

00:09:08   pretty rare and pretty hard to do all [TS]

00:09:10   I'm saying is if you're ever in a [TS]

00:09:12   position where you can go visit a [TS]

00:09:13   cookout get yourself a cookout tray I [TS]

00:09:15   mean you can can they consider a full [TS]

00:09:17   quesadilla as a side item that's what [TS]

00:09:20   you need to know that's all you need to [TS]

00:09:21   know the whole Faye my whole family can [TS]

00:09:23   eat there for like under 15 bucks it's [TS]

00:09:25   ridiculous I love cookout [TS]

00:09:27   god I love cookout anyway we should [TS]

00:09:29   probably start the show lest I talk [TS]

00:09:30   about food for the entire night you want [TS]

00:09:32   to talk politics we can do that for a [TS]

00:09:33   little while because I'm really fired up [TS]

00:09:35   I mean act now that we talked like fancy [TS]

00:09:36   people's burger chains [TS]

00:09:38   I feel like politics is a much safer [TS]

00:09:39   choice yeah probably [TS]

00:09:42   can we just ban all guns let's just do [TS]

00:09:44   that can we all agree on that good I'm [TS]

00:09:45   glad we talked all right let's start [TS]

00:09:49   with some follow-up and I don't want to [TS]

00:09:51   talk about any of this battery stuff [TS]

00:09:53   anymore so one of you do it I don't want [TS]

00:09:55   to either why are we still doing this I [TS]

00:09:57   don't know I'm talking about it we're [TS]

00:09:59   just I just wanted to give some we're [TS]

00:10:01   still getting feedback about it that [TS]

00:10:02   much is certain I'm talking about it [TS]

00:10:03   here let's talk about people can you [TS]

00:10:07   send us stuff and I just wanted to give [TS]

00:10:08   some representative samples from real [TS]

00:10:10   life listeners covering the spectrum of [TS]

00:10:11   the type of feedback we're getting but [TS]

00:10:15   did I just hear a beer cracker Marco I [TS]

00:10:20   love you so much [TS]

00:10:21   I've never loved you more than I love [TS]

00:10:22   you right now sorry what were you saying [TS]

00:10:24   John I'm saying I didn't practice how to [TS]

00:10:26   pronounce these people's names because I [TS]

00:10:27   don't think I'd be doing it sound you [TS]

00:10:28   don't have to do it we can skip doing it [TS]

00:10:31   just gonna go with bigger ditch I need [TS]

00:10:40   more beers to open oh my god that's [TS]

00:10:43   close you gotta try so we have some [TS]

00:10:46   follow-up about my task managers it's [TS]

00:10:49   just you just gotta read them that's all [TS]

00:10:51   we have to do it's not complicated [TS]

00:10:52   there's no discussion required you just [TS]

00:10:53   have to read the feedback oh god why are [TS]

00:10:56   we so talking about the batteries I [TS]

00:10:57   don't know we're not talking about it [TS]

00:10:59   we're reading feedback that's talking [TS]

00:11:00   three items there there there needs to [TS]

00:11:02   be no discussion about it we can can we [TS]

00:11:04   read in our minds and then not talk [TS]

00:11:05   about [TS]

00:11:06   here we go here we go I'm over it I'm [TS]

00:11:08   over here we go here we go this is we're [TS]

00:11:10   gonna speedrun it one person said done [TS]

00:11:14   and done so I've really reason I picked [TS]

00:11:16   these three things as big as the [TS]

00:11:17   representative of the entire spectrum [TS]

00:11:19   one person saying my battery's great and [TS]

00:11:21   I have terrible problems one person [TS]

00:11:22   saying that you know I had slowdowns I [TS]

00:11:24   fix it with clean install one person [TS]

00:11:26   saying I had slowdowns gonna fix it with [TS]

00:11:27   the battery thing I just want to put [TS]

00:11:29   that out of it because lots of people [TS]

00:11:30   think that the various descriptions of [TS]

00:11:33   things that might happen that we offer [TS]

00:11:34   on the show are fictional or [TS]

00:11:36   hypothetical or completely one-sided [TS]

00:11:38   every possibility is encountered for by [TS]

00:11:41   people that's we're trying to express in [TS]

00:11:42   these shows you think you know exactly [TS]

00:11:43   how everybody is handling it's always [TS]

00:11:45   throttling it's never throttling and [TS]

00:11:47   cleanness all always fixes that clean [TS]

00:11:48   install never fixes that battery always [TS]

00:11:49   fixes it better than that it's not true [TS]

00:11:51   we're getting real accounts of all these [TS]

00:11:52   different occurrences so this is [TS]

00:11:54   actually a complicated nuanced issue and [TS]

00:11:55   I'm sorry for all the people who think [TS]

00:11:57   it is 100 percent whatever their bet [TS]

00:11:59   theory is I hereby declare this topic [TS]

00:12:02   done serious permanently done I have to [TS]

00:12:05   say why you brought it up John but alpha [TS]

00:12:07   particle in this we're done all right I [TS]

00:12:09   was talking and I guess it made it in [TS]

00:12:11   the show I never listen to show after [TS]

00:12:12   it's released I was talking under the [TS]

00:12:14   influence of a beverage or two about my [TS]

00:12:17   my photo management Swift Console app [TS]

00:12:21   and one of the things I've said is that [TS]

00:12:23   I wanted to verify that if I find a name [TS]

00:12:26   collision whether or not those two files [TS]

00:12:28   are the same file and the reason I made [TS]

00:12:31   some of the choices I made is because [TS]

00:12:33   this app was written just for me and in [TS]

00:12:35   my particular scenario all of the final [TS]

00:12:38   versions of the files are stored on my [TS]

00:12:40   Synology I'm a network attached storage [TS]

00:12:41   and so what I was saying was hey I want [TS]

00:12:44   to md5 all these files to make sure [TS]

00:12:45   they're identical or not make decisions [TS]

00:12:47   based on that and more than a few people [TS]

00:12:49   wrote in to say usually very very nicely [TS]

00:12:52   you friggin idiot the first thing you do [TS]

00:12:55   is check the size of the files and then [TS]

00:12:57   you worry about md5 in them which was [TS]

00:13:00   really annoying because I should have [TS]

00:13:02   thought of that myself and didn't so I [TS]

00:13:03   didn't mention it because I assumed you [TS]

00:13:05   were doing that so yes you should feel [TS]

00:13:06   shame I feel shame and I am admitting it [TS]

00:13:09   publicly [TS]

00:13:10   honestly I'm with you Casey I would not [TS]

00:13:12   have thought of that like yeah just [TS]

00:13:13   check the file sometime only md5 at the [TS]

00:13:15   file size as a match I probably wouldn't [TS]

00:13:17   have thought of that no you totally [TS]

00:13:18   would have done when you [TS]

00:13:19   writing the code you feel you're like [TS]

00:13:21   wait a second why don't you like alright [TS]

00:13:24   god I feel it's impossible I feel it's [TS]

00:13:28   impossible to write that code and [TS]

00:13:29   actually have your fingers tied but [TS]

00:13:30   without going wait a second well I could [TS]

00:13:33   tell you it is not impossible because I [TS]

00:13:35   did it but no all kidding aside it was [TS]

00:13:37   truly it was an obvious answer that I [TS]

00:13:40   just really did not think of so I [TS]

00:13:42   appreciate all of you writing in and I [TS]

00:13:43   am if I have felt and continue to feel [TS]

00:13:45   the appropriate amounts of shame now the [TS]

00:13:47   final follow-up topic everyone in their [TS]

00:13:49   mother also wrote in to tell Marco that [TS]

00:13:52   they have the one true task management [TS]

00:13:56   advice or app or what have you [TS]

00:13:59   Marco did you try any of them and do you [TS]

00:14:01   care I tried I think three or four [TS]

00:14:04   different grocery list apps we had lots [TS]

00:14:09   of recommendations for these I I didn't [TS]

00:14:11   try anything to replace things as my [TS]

00:14:12   main to-do app because I tried enough of [TS]

00:14:15   those already and honestly trying to do [TS]

00:14:16   apps giving them like a real shot is so [TS]

00:14:18   time-consuming and cumbersome that I [TS]

00:14:20   don't want to try million of them like [TS]

00:14:21   I'm very happy with things now it's fine [TS]

00:14:24   so for the grocery list role you know I [TS]

00:14:27   mentioned that I use clear and I've been [TS]

00:14:29   using clear for years and it's been fine [TS]

00:14:32   but I would like something that has Siri [TS]

00:14:34   integration so I can quickly add to my [TS]

00:14:36   list so a bunch of people wrote in and [TS]

00:14:38   suggested a lot of different apps that [TS]

00:14:41   make grocery lists and do things in a [TS]

00:14:42   smart way I found all of them to be [TS]

00:14:46   either hideous-looking [TS]

00:14:48   and/or too complicated some of them [TS]

00:14:51   tried to be too smart a lot of them you [TS]

00:14:53   know I mentioned that one of the reasons [TS]

00:14:55   I like using clear is it makes it very [TS]

00:14:57   easy for me to just drag and reorder [TS]

00:14:58   things to be in the order in which they [TS]

00:15:01   are in the store because I know my [TS]

00:15:02   stores really well and and so you know I [TS]

00:15:04   always arrange things to be in an [TS]

00:15:06   efficient way many apps try to do that [TS]

00:15:09   for you automatically through some kind [TS]

00:15:11   of either by learning the way you order [TS]

00:15:13   them or by defining sections like okay [TS]

00:15:15   produce and then cereals and then dairy [TS]

00:15:18   and you can even some of them are even [TS]

00:15:20   advanced enough to know that you can [TS]

00:15:21   read you can you can set like okay this [TS]

00:15:23   store the aisles are in this order first [TS]

00:15:26   produce then dairy like it's it's a very [TS]

00:15:29   these apps have a very very advanced and [TS]

00:15:32   complicated salu [TS]

00:15:33   to this problem and I found none of them [TS]

00:15:36   compelling enough I have already food [TS]

00:15:37   shopped with I think two or three of [TS]

00:15:39   them and I found them not compelling [TS]

00:15:41   either it was cumbersome to use or it [TS]

00:15:44   was just it took up a lot of space on [TS]

00:15:45   screen there was they were very [TS]

00:15:46   cluttered I didn't like the way any of [TS]

00:15:49   them actually flowed in use ultimately [TS]

00:15:52   this is a situation where you could make [TS]

00:15:55   custom apps that try to be smart about [TS]

00:15:57   grocery shopping that's too much for me [TS]

00:16:00   I'm fine with clear all I want is Siri [TS]

00:16:03   entry and maybe sharing for clear that's [TS]

00:16:07   it a basic list that I can drag to [TS]

00:16:10   reorder myself I you know all the [TS]

00:16:11   intelligent stuff it was it's kind of [TS]

00:16:13   like my nest thermostats like when I [TS]

00:16:16   first got the nests back forever ago now [TS]

00:16:18   I very soon afterwards turned off all of [TS]

00:16:22   their automatic learning features and I [TS]

00:16:25   instead I just set I set a program on [TS]

00:16:26   the website like you you can just enter [TS]

00:16:28   like re go to this temperature at this [TS]

00:16:29   time go to this temperature at this time [TS]

00:16:31   and stop guessing what to do [TS]

00:16:32   I found that I greatly preferred that [TS]

00:16:34   because the intelligent part of it would [TS]

00:16:37   often just guess wrong or just get in my [TS]

00:16:39   way [TS]

00:16:40   there's a lot of places where this is [TS]

00:16:43   the case in a lot of different things [TS]

00:16:44   for a lot of different people this is [TS]

00:16:45   just one of those problem domains this [TS]

00:16:47   grocery list thing where for me the [TS]

00:16:50   simpler option is is not only good [TS]

00:16:52   enough but better on average like [TS]

00:16:55   because for all of the gains that I got [TS]

00:16:58   for the ones that would rearrange [TS]

00:17:00   themselves intelligently there were just [TS]

00:17:02   as many times where it guessed wrong and [TS]

00:17:04   maybe if I use them for longer periods [TS]

00:17:07   of time they would learn better and and [TS]

00:17:09   they would get better you know whichever [TS]

00:17:11   want to use most would like really learn [TS]

00:17:12   me and my stores but I found the process [TS]

00:17:16   so cumbersome to use them and so [TS]

00:17:17   uncompelled I don't want to use them for [TS]

00:17:19   any longer I like I'm fine just using a [TS]

00:17:22   very simple list app now which so far is [TS]

00:17:24   clear and I hope the next version is [TS]

00:17:26   clear which I here is being worked on I [TS]

00:17:27   hope it adds stuff like sharing and Siri [TS]

00:17:30   we are sponsor this week by Linode you [TS]

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00:17:49   ram they also have all sorts of other [TS]

00:17:52   size plans for your different needs they [TS]

00:17:54   have high memory plans as i added [TS]

00:17:55   recently starting at 16 gigs of ram and [TS]

00:17:57   they have all sorts of discs based [TS]

00:17:59   combinations cpu combinations and all [TS]

00:18:02   this is backed by Leonard's awesome 24/7 [TS]

00:18:05   friendly support even phone support if [TS]

00:18:07   you want that Linode offers VMs for full [TS]

00:18:10   control you can run docker containers [TS]

00:18:12   you can have encrypted disks you can run [TS]

00:18:14   VPNs all this is on native SSD storage [TS]

00:18:17   backed by a 40 gigabit network running [TS]

00:18:20   on intel xeon e5 processors and Linnet [TS]

00:18:23   is always adding new stuff they recently [TS]

00:18:25   took block storage out of beta which is [TS]

00:18:27   available in in the Freemont and Newark [TS]

00:18:29   data centers with plans to expand to all [TS]

00:18:31   data centers by the end of the second [TS]

00:18:33   quarter of this year there's all sorts [TS]

00:18:34   of new stuff happening at little they're [TS]

00:18:36   also currently in beta they're testing a [TS]

00:18:38   whole new control panel at cloud [TS]

00:18:40   lynda.com you can see for yourself it's [TS]

00:18:43   wonderful and honestly I've loved their [TS]

00:18:45   basic control panel there they're [TS]

00:18:46   justing 1 for years it's by far my [TS]

00:18:49   favorite web host to actually use the [TS]

00:18:51   control panel is full-featured and super [TS]

00:18:54   easy and super nice to use and again [TS]

00:18:56   they're always making that better you [TS]

00:18:57   can see for yourself also with no risk [TS]

00:18:59   because Linode offers a 7 day money-back [TS]

00:19:01   guarantee so check it out today you can [TS]

00:19:03   get started with Linode server get [TS]

00:19:05   running in under a minute go to [TS]

00:19:07   lynda.com slash ATP again see for [TS]

00:19:10   yourself if you are in the business of [TS]

00:19:11   needing a web host for anything I've [TS]

00:19:13   used a lot of web hosts and Linode is my [TS]

00:19:16   favorite check it out today lynda.com [TS]

00:19:19   slash ATP and use coupon code 8 EP 2018 [TS]

00:19:22   for a $20 credit once again lynda.com [TS]

00:19:25   slash ATP thank you so much to Linode [TS]

00:19:27   for sponsoring our show today there has [TS]

00:19:33   been all sorts of drama about how you [TS]

00:19:35   hold the home pod incorrectly or [TS]

00:19:38   something well your shelf or table holds [TS]

00:19:40   the home pasta really well dot all this [TS]

00:19:43   time who knew that we were supposed to [TS]

00:19:45   be using coasters under our home pods [TS]

00:19:46   obviously we are at fault here we should [TS]

00:19:49   have known that yeah who knew so [TS]

00:19:51   basically when people place their new [TS]

00:19:54   home pods which actually quick aside did [TS]

00:19:56   either of you get a home pod yet because [TS]

00:19:57   I have not [TS]

00:19:58   so I'll tell you what oh here we go what [TS]

00:20:04   else did you do in the city today on [TS]

00:20:06   Valentine's Day [TS]

00:20:06   sometimes the UPS man just comes to [TS]

00:20:08   Marco's house and has things happens yes [TS]

00:20:11   their connection with Marcos actions not [TS]

00:20:14   conclusive what you do Marco I don't [TS]

00:20:19   have a home pod I will - I will say that [TS]

00:20:21   yes but I did think if I want to try it [TS]

00:20:24   out there is a I was under the [TS]

00:20:26   impression under the under the [TS]

00:20:28   conclusion so far that there really was [TS]

00:20:30   no place in my house that I could really [TS]

00:20:31   use one and that actually is not correct [TS]

00:20:33   next to the echo I have a Sonos play:1 [TS]

00:20:37   not the new Sonos one that has the the [TS]

00:20:39   built-in Alexa integration not that but [TS]

00:20:42   the the old Sonos play:1 that is just [TS]

00:20:44   the speaker just the sono speaker and I [TS]

00:20:47   have it there because when you know cut [TS]

00:20:49   like two years ago now I started trying [TS]

00:20:50   out so knows to build an overcast [TS]

00:20:52   integration and and they were kind [TS]

00:20:54   enough to send me some units to test [TS]

00:20:55   with and everything and so I have the I [TS]

00:20:57   have a few of those in the house and I [TS]

00:20:59   needed a place to put it so I put it [TS]

00:21:00   next to the echo [TS]

00:21:01   I hardly ever used the sono stuff and [TS]

00:21:04   when I do I hardly ever play things out [TS]

00:21:06   of that output usually it's out of the [TS]

00:21:08   living room output so I have a you know [TS]

00:21:13   short squat white speaker that is better [TS]

00:21:16   for music than assistant type things [TS]

00:21:17   already sitting next to my echo so I [TS]

00:21:20   could just remove the Sonos play:1 and [TS]

00:21:22   put a home pod there and then I can [TS]

00:21:25   continue using the pair of them the way [TS]

00:21:27   I have been using the pair of them so [TS]

00:21:28   far which is I use the Amazon echo for [TS]

00:21:30   kitchen timers and that kind of personal [TS]

00:21:32   assistant stuff at the home pod is maybe [TS]

00:21:34   not so great at and especially timers [TS]

00:21:37   come on why is that come on and then I [TS]

00:21:40   could theoretically then use the home [TS]

00:21:41   pod for music there I haven't done this [TS]

00:21:44   yet but if I wanted to try one out and [TS]

00:21:46   eventually you know I hope I hope so [TS]

00:21:49   much that this summer at everybody see [TS]

00:21:51   we hear of new sirikit intents that [TS]

00:21:54   involve audio playback services I really [TS]

00:21:57   really hope Fame and honestly my hopes [TS]

00:22:00   are not that like or rather my [TS]

00:22:02   confidence is not that high I don't [TS]

00:22:03   think we're gonna actually get that I [TS]

00:22:05   really hope I'm wrong though I really [TS]

00:22:07   hope we do if we do then overcast has [TS]

00:22:09   something to do on the home pod and so [TS]

00:22:12   I will have to get one for testing so [TS]

00:22:13   that will be a sensible place to put it [TS]

00:22:15   but until that happens and unless that [TS]

00:22:18   happens I'm still not that compelled to [TS]

00:22:21   try it but if I did put a home pod there [TS]

00:22:24   that is actually a finished MDF wood [TS]

00:22:27   piece so I don't think I would create a [TS]

00:22:30   ring and if I did create a ring it's [TS]

00:22:31   already white so it wouldn't really be [TS]

00:22:33   visible so to back up the issue that's [TS]

00:22:36   that's at hand is that people are [TS]

00:22:37   starting to notice that when you set [TS]

00:22:39   your home pod on some kinds of wood or [TS]

00:22:43   maybe treated wood maybe untreated wood [TS]

00:22:44   to be honest it doesn't really matter in [TS]

00:22:46   the grand scheme of things but if you [TS]

00:22:47   see your home pod on wood it will more [TS]

00:22:51   likely than not leave a ring from the [TS]

00:22:53   base of the home pot on the wood so I I [TS]

00:22:58   don't see how there's really a lot of [TS]

00:23:00   argument or discussion about this like [TS]

00:23:02   this seems like it's bogus and it's a [TS]

00:23:04   poor design and a lot of people are [TS]

00:23:06   saying no no no no no you should put [TS]

00:23:09   this on a coaster or a doily or [TS]

00:23:11   something like that but who's saying [TS]

00:23:12   that who says that oh you'd be surprised [TS]

00:23:14   John I'm lucky I must be a good doing a [TS]

00:23:18   good job of curating my Twitter fall [TS]

00:23:19   because I have not seen a single person [TS]

00:23:21   say I I gotta say there's there's a lot [TS]

00:23:23   of people out there who feel like it's [TS]

00:23:25   their job to explain Apple to everyone [TS]

00:23:30   and sometimes this is a wonderful [TS]

00:23:32   service and sometimes it's just people [TS]

00:23:36   basically being Apple's PR department [TS]

00:23:38   for them and I don't think that's [TS]

00:23:40   healthy for anybody that's not healthy [TS]

00:23:42   for Apple it's not healthy for people [TS]

00:23:44   trying to make like you know a writing [TS]

00:23:46   or blogging or analysis career and it's [TS]

00:23:48   not health and it isn't healthy for the [TS]

00:23:50   audience you know in fact I wanted to [TS]

00:23:53   give a shout out here there's there's a [TS]

00:23:54   podcast called the menu bar that was [TS]

00:23:57   that was I think reintroduced it [TS]

00:23:59   restarted a few weeks ago spoiler I'm [TS]

00:24:03   gonna be the guest on it next week and [TS]

00:24:04   so this is partially you know some [TS]

00:24:07   promotional but I suggest you listen to [TS]

00:24:09   the menu bar eat it is a very very very [TS]

00:24:12   good angle of Apple critique and not [TS]

00:24:17   just Apple it actually is a critique of [TS]

00:24:19   the entire tech industry there's a [TS]

00:24:21   really like a fresh take of Apple [TS]

00:24:23   critique on the menu bar that I [TS]

00:24:25   is worth hearing and because it isn't [TS]

00:24:28   just like oh the keyboard sucks oh you [TS]

00:24:30   know the home pod blah it's not that [TS]

00:24:32   it's not the kind of stuff like if [TS]

00:24:34   you're tired of me criticizing Apple [TS]

00:24:36   it's not that like this the way I do it [TS]

00:24:39   like they do it in a much better way and [TS]

00:24:40   a much more interesting and constructive [TS]

00:24:43   and and thoughtful way so I strongly [TS]

00:24:47   suggest checking out the menu bar [TS]

00:24:48   podcast I'll put a link in the show [TS]

00:24:49   notes and I'll have it appear here in [TS]

00:24:50   the chapter are basically the reason [TS]

00:24:51   that I brought up is the one of the [TS]

00:24:53   things they said in a couple of the [TS]

00:24:55   episodes now is that they don't feel [TS]

00:24:56   like they need to basically like be [TS]

00:24:59   Apple's PR department you know for them [TS]

00:25:01   anytime Apple does anything wrong [TS]

00:25:03   fans and sometimes writers and mostly [TS]

00:25:07   honestly just fans a certain subset just [TS]

00:25:10   thinks it's their job to jump out there [TS]

00:25:12   and defend Apple in ways that Apple [TS]

00:25:16   doesn't need to be defended [TS]

00:25:17   like if the home pod has this problem [TS]

00:25:21   which it certainly appears that it does [TS]

00:25:22   this is absolutely the like it's a flaw [TS]

00:25:26   it's simple as that like it's not gonna [TS]

00:25:27   like end the world it's not gonna make [TS]

00:25:29   the home pod a flop it's not gonna cause [TS]

00:25:31   some kind of massive recall or anything [TS]

00:25:33   it's an embarrassing flaw we heard for [TS]

00:25:37   months that the home pod Hardware has [TS]

00:25:40   been done for like a long time and they [TS]

00:25:42   were just waiting on the software the [TS]

00:25:43   hardware is done it's awesome it's [TS]

00:25:45   perfect and then there's a hardware [TS]

00:25:47   problem there's an actual hardware flaw [TS]

00:25:49   that shipped and and not a not a small [TS]

00:25:52   one it just seems like it's just yet yet [TS]

00:25:55   another thing about this product launch [TS]

00:25:57   that's just sloppy and rushed and [TS]

00:26:00   apparently the hardware wasn't done well [TS]

00:26:03   enough or they found this problem and [TS]

00:26:05   decided it wouldn't matter and shipped [TS]

00:26:06   anyway kind of like when they knew that [TS]

00:26:07   the MacBook keyboards were bad from the [TS]

00:26:09   first MacBook I decided to bring them [TS]

00:26:10   across the whole lineup anyway somewhere [TS]

00:26:13   like things are falling apart in weird [TS]

00:26:15   ways flaws are getting shipped that [TS]

00:26:18   should not get shipped that is cause for [TS]

00:26:20   concern even if this particular flaw you [TS]

00:26:23   don't think is that bad or doesn't [TS]

00:26:25   affect you we are seeing a lot of [TS]

00:26:27   embarrassing flaws that get out the door [TS]

00:26:30   and it seems like either this product [TS]

00:26:33   was not tested to the degree that we [TS]

00:26:36   heard that it was and the hardware was [TS]

00:26:38   not done [TS]

00:26:39   as recently or as far back as we heard [TS]

00:26:42   it was or if any of the employees who [TS]

00:26:45   had these take home units that we heard [TS]

00:26:46   about that they were all over campus or [TS]

00:26:48   you know all over people's houses like [TS]

00:26:49   certainly somebody must have had this [TS]

00:26:52   issue and must have reported it and so [TS]

00:26:54   either they didn't do enough testing or [TS]

00:26:56   they found this issue and decided not [TS]

00:26:58   only was it not worth addressing and by [TS]

00:27:01   changing the the foot of the home pod [TS]

00:27:03   changing the material or adding some [TS]

00:27:06   kind of like pad or something you know [TS]

00:27:08   not only was it not worth addressing in [TS]

00:27:10   the hardware but it wasn't even worth [TS]

00:27:11   mentioning anywhere in the manuals and [TS]

00:27:14   anything like that [TS]

00:27:15   it's something's wrong there like [TS]

00:27:17   mistakes are getting out that should not [TS]

00:27:19   get out that's that I think ultimately [TS]

00:27:22   big picture not just the home pod ring [TS]

00:27:25   of death or whatever that is the more [TS]

00:27:29   concerning thing to me about Apple right [TS]

00:27:30   now and that when these flaws come out [TS]

00:27:33   one of the main reactions from people [TS]

00:27:36   both inside and out is defensiveness not [TS]

00:27:41   actually going back and getting these [TS]

00:27:43   problems fixed one interesting theory I [TS]

00:27:45   heard is that it's not actually a design [TS]

00:27:49   problem but a manufacturing problem and [TS]

00:27:51   that some manufacturers responsible for [TS]

00:27:52   making that smushy little ring cheaped [TS]

00:27:54   out in a way they thought wouldn't be a [TS]

00:27:56   parent but ends up being a parent and it [TS]

00:27:59   could be that all the Apple people who [TS]

00:28:01   got the take home things got the good [TS]

00:28:02   properly manufactured rings in the bombs [TS]

00:28:04   they didn't have this problem but then [TS]

00:28:06   the mass production ones like you know [TS]

00:28:08   some supplier cheap doubt nothing that's [TS]

00:28:11   also that's obviously also apples [TS]

00:28:13   responsibility but I can think of all [TS]

00:28:15   sorts of ways how this can get out you [TS]

00:28:18   know not because Apple didn't test it [TS]

00:28:20   thoroughly or or didn't pay attention to [TS]

00:28:22   it but simply because it's it's [TS]

00:28:24   something that appears for the first [TS]

00:28:26   time in the mass-produced models the [TS]

00:28:28   customers get which would be a bummer [TS]

00:28:29   but it's plausible but happily makes a [TS]

00:28:33   lot of products that sit on tables and [TS]

00:28:34   desks why has like why hasn't that [TS]

00:28:36   happened before I know that made this [TS]

00:28:37   makes me think like like do you think I [TS]

00:28:39   think I mean obviously the home cut we [TS]

00:28:41   expect them to test this right that's [TS]

00:28:42   what we're getting at it's like you'd [TS]

00:28:44   like you know this thing is going to be [TS]

00:28:45   sitting on people's furniture all over [TS]

00:28:46   the place like it's the whole point of [TS]

00:28:47   this device right but I think when I saw [TS]

00:28:49   this I think about do you like Apple [TS]

00:28:51   tests whether the feet [TS]

00:28:53   on my Mac Pro markup furniture I mean I [TS]

00:28:55   guess they don't because there's not a [TS]

00:28:57   much expectation that the Mac Pro my [TS]

00:29:00   cheese grater is going to be all over [TS]

00:29:02   the house and all sorts of different [TS]

00:29:03   kinds of furniture it's basically gonna [TS]

00:29:04   be on desks or underneath desks do you [TS]

00:29:07   think they test with a little rubber [TS]

00:29:08   feet on the bottom of iMacs markup [TS]

00:29:10   things that they're put on I'm also [TS]

00:29:12   going to guess that they don't like not [TS]

00:29:14   that they don't test that at all [TS]

00:29:15   materials but they don't basically don't [TS]

00:29:16   test it at all because I don't know it [TS]

00:29:19   just doesn't seem like it because it's [TS]

00:29:20   not a product like the home pod where [TS]

00:29:21   they show it literally unlike here we're [TS]

00:29:23   gonna put it on your you know end table [TS]

00:29:24   or on your whatever right so that's why [TS]

00:29:26   I think it is it's much more relevant to [TS]

00:29:29   the home pot but it does make me realize [TS]

00:29:31   that this blind spot in and you know [TS]

00:29:34   probably extends to a lot of their [TS]

00:29:35   products like for everything from from [TS]

00:29:38   the plastic that they make their cords [TS]

00:29:39   out of to all the different feet on [TS]

00:29:42   probably the feet on laptops they do [TS]

00:29:43   test in the same way that they that you [TS]

00:29:45   expect them to taste the home pot but I [TS]

00:29:46   bet they don't test it on Macs right I [TS]

00:29:49   mean even if you have a wooden desk like [TS]

00:29:51   I don't know maybe someone should write [TS]

00:29:54   in and tell us do you have a Mac it sits [TS]

00:29:56   on a wooden desk and has marred the [TS]

00:29:57   surface in some way I think it's [TS]

00:29:59   plausible because I honestly don't see [TS]

00:30:01   them testing Mac's on a bunch of [TS]

00:30:02   different desk services whereas the 100% [TS]

00:30:05   should have and perhaps did test the [TS]

00:30:07   home pod also two different services [TS]

00:30:09   it's just weird and here again I think [TS]

00:30:12   it's a it's an instance of arguably an [TS]

00:30:15   instance of a little bit better [TS]

00:30:17   communication up front might've maybe [TS]

00:30:19   not solve the problem it helped the [TS]

00:30:21   problem now I still think it's bogus I [TS]

00:30:22   still think it's bogus that if you sit [TS]

00:30:24   this thing on on wood without putting [TS]

00:30:26   something in between it that a twitch [TS]

00:30:27   that it could screw up the wood like [TS]

00:30:29   that's messed up full-stop but it [TS]

00:30:32   certainly would have been nice and [TS]

00:30:33   somebody else made that and I don't [TS]

00:30:35   remember who was right well yeah and [TS]

00:30:39   maybe was him that said oh you know we [TS]

00:30:41   knew that the jet-black iPhones were [TS]

00:30:42   gonna scratch we knew it upfront we were [TS]

00:30:43   okay with it because we knew what we [TS]

00:30:45   were getting what's the line from it was [TS]

00:30:48   it was Batman Dark Knight where they say [TS]

00:30:51   you know if you something along the [TS]

00:30:53   lines of Joker says you know if you [TS]

00:30:54   expect something people or totally fine [TS]

00:30:56   it's when something unexpected happens [TS]

00:30:58   that they lose their minds and and so [TS]

00:31:00   you can expect that you're brand new you [TS]

00:31:01   know eight hundred all our iPhones going [TS]

00:31:02   to scratch to [TS]

00:31:03   him come and that's cool because we know [TS]

00:31:05   what's gonna happen but you know you you [TS]

00:31:07   don't expect this ring just show up and [TS]

00:31:09   everyone loses their minds and I would [TS]

00:31:10   too I'd be upset I don't think it's [TS]

00:31:12   entirely about expectations though like [TS]

00:31:14   I understand the communication angle but [TS]

00:31:16   I think the comparison to the phone just [TS]

00:31:17   highlights how how different this is [TS]

00:31:19   right so whether people are aware of it [TS]

00:31:21   or not the trade-off that Apple is [TS]

00:31:24   making with the phone that scratches [TS]

00:31:25   more an apple does advertise this but [TS]

00:31:26   doesn't connect it up as much is that [TS]

00:31:28   you know they made softer glass in the [TS]

00:31:29   hopes that it won't shatter [TS]

00:31:30   less often right so that's a trade-off [TS]

00:31:32   that they're making they're like you can [TS]

00:31:34   make the glass really really hard but [TS]

00:31:35   then it's more likely to shatter if you [TS]

00:31:36   make it softer it's more likely to [TS]

00:31:37   scratch that that's a trade-off that [TS]

00:31:39   they have made do because they [TS]

00:31:41   advertised about how much more durable [TS]

00:31:43   and less likely to shatter the iPhone 10 [TS]

00:31:44   and isn't they also tell you it will [TS]

00:31:45   scratch more and they don't connect the [TS]

00:31:47   two of them for you but I'm pretty sure [TS]

00:31:48   they're connected right so all right [TS]

00:31:51   that's you know and then they warn you [TS]

00:31:52   upfront that's communication right for [TS]

00:31:54   the ring thing even if they had warned [TS]

00:31:56   me I'd be like oh thanks for telling me [TS]

00:31:58   I shouldn't buy this because there is no [TS]

00:31:59   trade is the sound better because it [TS]

00:32:02   makes rings on my furniture I don't [TS]

00:32:03   think it is I don't think there's any [TS]

00:32:04   connection is it made of a magic [TS]

00:32:06   material that makes it better than a [TS]

00:32:07   non-marking rubber I don't think it is [TS]

00:32:10   right there is no trade-off it's just [TS]

00:32:11   plain simple something bad about it and [TS]

00:32:14   you could say if they had warned I would [TS]

00:32:16   say it's great that I know us know this [TS]

00:32:18   while I wait for my defective unit to be [TS]

00:32:20   replaced for free Apple thanks for [TS]

00:32:22   warning me but I'm not going to take it [TS]

00:32:24   as oh they warned me and so now I think [TS]

00:32:26   it's okay it's not okay because as far [TS]

00:32:30   as I can tell there is no trade off it's [TS]

00:32:32   not a design decision it is a mistake [TS]

00:32:34   and it is a mistake that can cause [TS]

00:32:36   cosmetic damage to things in your house [TS]

00:32:37   and that I feel like is unacceptable I [TS]

00:32:39   don't think Apple will recall these [TS]

00:32:41   because of it but honestly I kind of [TS]

00:32:44   think they should if they really want to [TS]

00:32:46   have a reputation as a company that [TS]

00:32:47   stands behind its products basically [TS]

00:32:49   they should say we're not gonna recall [TS]

00:32:50   all of them but if your home pod marks [TS]

00:32:52   up your furniture send it back to us and [TS]

00:32:54   we'll send you no more the foot doesn't [TS]

00:32:56   mark it up that's the right thing to do [TS]

00:32:57   as far as Apple is concerned as far as [TS]

00:32:59   I'm concerned for Apple to do or they [TS]

00:33:00   just keep everybody like a doily or a [TS]

00:33:02   coaster to put it on a fine Corinthian [TS]

00:33:05   leather coaster no they don't they mean [TS]

00:33:07   you need to not have things that mean [TS]

00:33:09   it's not a glass of it's not a glass of [TS]

00:33:11   iced water it's gonna sweat and leave a [TS]

00:33:13   ring like it there's no water it's just [TS]

00:33:14   it's a it's electronic device [TS]

00:33:16   it shouldn't leave rings on wood [TS]

00:33:18   furniture I'm sorry I'm guessing we get [TS]

00:33:21   no actual response from them on this but [TS]

00:33:22   who knows I mean well no we did get a [TS]

00:33:24   response because they put in a new fuse [TS]

00:33:26   it was typical defensiveness [TS]

00:33:28   the response was you're holding it wrong [TS]

00:33:30   cleaning cleaning and taking care of [TS]

00:33:31   your home pod [TS]

00:33:32   yeah the response was you should [TS]

00:33:34   refinish your table yeah where to place [TS]

00:33:36   your home it's not unusual for any [TS]

00:33:38   speaker with vibration damage silicone [TS]

00:33:39   base to leave the mild marks one place [TS]

00:33:41   them is you think it's not unusual I [TS]

00:33:42   don't know it seems pretty unusual to me [TS]

00:33:44   like I I have to think there is a [TS]

00:33:47   vibration damping material that you can [TS]

00:33:50   put on the bottom of a speaker that does [TS]

00:33:52   not mark wood services right I mean lots [TS]

00:33:55   of you know this one lots of speakers [TS]

00:33:57   use the really really pointy feet which [TS]

00:33:58   would leave like actual holes in your [TS]

00:34:00   things you know but at least that's [TS]

00:34:01   obvious when you see the really really [TS]

00:34:02   point it just doesn't seem to me that [TS]

00:34:04   there that that material is so special [TS]

00:34:07   that there is no replacement that would [TS]

00:34:08   it would you know it would it would [TS]

00:34:10   impair that speaker's sound quality if [TS]

00:34:13   they used a different kind of rubber I [TS]

00:34:14   don't see that and honestly I think the [TS]

00:34:18   PR response to this is poor well in [TS]

00:34:21   their defense as we record there's been [TS]

00:34:23   like an afternoon and evening worth of [TS]

00:34:25   time for their to have a response [TS]

00:34:27   because this just broke earlier today [TS]

00:34:28   did it not yes okay so I mean let's give [TS]

00:34:32   them a little slack there may be some [TS]

00:34:34   sort of response cop yeah now we don't [TS]

00:34:35   we don't know what their reaction is [TS]

00:34:36   gonna be I'm just saying that the the [TS]

00:34:38   reaction thus far seems insufficient to [TS]

00:34:40   me and there's no again it's not they [TS]

00:34:42   need to recall them all like defective [TS]

00:34:43   airbags and cars or something if someone [TS]

00:34:45   has it and it's sitting on a you know a [TS]

00:34:48   piece of furniture that it doesn't mark [TS]

00:34:49   there's no reason to recall that [TS]

00:34:50   person's thing or whatever but if [TS]

00:34:52   someone has one of these and it leaves a [TS]

00:34:54   mark on their furniture they should be [TS]

00:34:56   able to say Apple take this back and [TS]

00:34:58   give them our money back or which they [TS]

00:35:00   can do if they're inside the return [TS]

00:35:01   window or Apple take this back and give [TS]

00:35:04   me one that doesn't leave a ring and [TS]

00:35:05   Apple should do that I'm not even going [TS]

00:35:06   so far as to say all Apple has to pay [TS]

00:35:07   for the damages to your furniture which [TS]

00:35:09   would also be nice but is a little bit [TS]

00:35:10   unfeasible in terms of logistics but no [TS]

00:35:13   it's it they it's a mistake I'm you know [TS]

00:35:17   it's probably an honest mistake I can [TS]

00:35:18   imagine how this slipped through but [TS]

00:35:20   it's not acceptable there is no this is [TS]

00:35:22   not a design trade-off like phone [TS]

00:35:24   screens that scratch a little easier in [TS]

00:35:26   exchange for not shattering as much [TS]

00:35:27   would you guys do you have any thoughts [TS]

00:35:30   on [TS]

00:35:30   tear downs those were done between last [TS]

00:35:33   episode and this one so we didn't talk [TS]

00:35:34   about a lot I don't think I was [TS]

00:35:37   surprised by what was in there right [TS]

00:35:38   it's kind of it's very interesting to me [TS]

00:35:41   like to see a lot of a lot of a way [TS]

00:35:42   that's the way that it's structured and [TS]

00:35:44   built I think one of the one of the [TS]

00:35:46   weird surprises for me is how none of [TS]

00:35:50   the speakers fire outwards [TS]

00:35:52   like the woofer fires up and the tweeter [TS]

00:35:55   is fired down like the whole middle of [TS]

00:35:58   it you know it's covered in cloth so you [TS]

00:35:59   kind of get the feeling it's like one [TS]

00:36:01   big speaker but in fact the speakers are [TS]

00:36:04   firing out of the top and bottom out of [TS]

00:36:06   little vents and there's nothing firing [TS]

00:36:09   out the sides the sides are just solid I [TS]

00:36:11   thought we had seen some sort of [TS]

00:36:13   indication like during WDC of what this [TS]

00:36:15   looked like inside at least [TS]

00:36:16   approximately so I'm not I'm not too [TS]

00:36:19   terribly surprised by that but I to be [TS]

00:36:21   honest I did not get a chance like the [TS]

00:36:23   teardown so I don't really know what I'm [TS]

00:36:24   talking about [TS]

00:36:25   Oh also while we're on the subject of [TS]

00:36:26   tear downs gotta also give massive shout [TS]

00:36:29   out to the season finale of this season [TS]

00:36:32   of welcome to McIntosh the podcast by [TS]

00:36:34   mark Graham Hill that it was it was an [TS]

00:36:37   interview about interview with the [TS]

00:36:39   founder of iFixit who does these [TS]

00:36:41   wonderful tear downs about repair [TS]

00:36:44   ability and you know long-term [TS]

00:36:45   recyclability of our devices it was [TS]

00:36:48   really good and really makes you think [TS]

00:36:50   about things like a waste and and the [TS]

00:36:54   way these products are being built and [TS]

00:36:57   manufactured and designed and and how [TS]

00:36:59   that you know there are ways you can [TS]

00:36:59   design something for repair ability and [TS]

00:37:02   then later recyclability and there are [TS]

00:37:04   ways that you can make that harder or [TS]

00:37:05   impossible and you know Apple seems very [TS]

00:37:09   split on this issue like there's [TS]

00:37:12   obviously parts of Apple that care [TS]

00:37:13   deeply about the environment and about [TS]

00:37:15   recyclability of things but a lot of [TS]

00:37:18   their Harvard designs are very hard or [TS]

00:37:20   impossible to recycle some pretty major [TS]

00:37:22   parts they don't necessarily need to be [TS]

00:37:25   done that way so I think it's a very [TS]

00:37:27   good episode worth a listen and and [TS]

00:37:29   certainly any thought-provoking we are [TS]

00:37:32   sponsored this week by a way take us [TS]

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00:37:44   if you finally design this suitcase for [TS]

00:37:46   the modern age they use high quality [TS]

00:37:49   materials they eliminate all the middle [TS]

00:37:51   people and sell directly to you so you [TS]

00:37:53   get a great value and they have [TS]

00:37:55   wonderful modern amenities so for [TS]

00:37:57   example they have a built-in compression [TS]

00:37:59   system so you can really cram a lot in [TS]

00:38:01   there and have it be nicely packed down [TS]

00:38:03   to leave more room for even more stuff [TS]

00:38:05   because everyone needs that at some [TS]

00:38:06   point they have four spinner wheels on [TS]

00:38:09   every suitcase that have 360 degree [TS]

00:38:11   rotation which completely changes the [TS]

00:38:14   way you can maneuver a suitcase as you [TS]

00:38:16   go throughout an airport they have a tsa [TS]

00:38:18   approved combination lock built into the [TS]

00:38:19   top of the bag they have a removable [TS]

00:38:21   washable laundry bag so that you don't [TS]

00:38:23   have to like shove your dirty clothes [TS]

00:38:25   kind of like off to the side and just [TS]

00:38:27   hope you don't get confused and you can [TS]

00:38:28   just take it out when you get home and [TS]

00:38:30   you can put you can empty you into the [TS]

00:38:31   into the washer it's wonderful and both [TS]

00:38:34   sizes are their carry-on bags have a [TS]

00:38:36   built-in battery that can charge any USB [TS]

00:38:38   device so as you're sitting there in the [TS]

00:38:40   airport waiting for your flight you [TS]

00:38:42   don't have to be draining your phone's [TS]

00:38:43   battery you can have your phone plugged [TS]

00:38:45   into your suitcase charging up so that [TS]

00:38:47   when you get on the plane you got a nice [TS]

00:38:48   full battery a single charge of the away [TS]

00:38:50   carry-ons built in battery can charge an [TS]

00:38:52   iPhone up to five times they also have [TS]

00:38:55   wonderful new add-ons recently like they [TS]

00:38:56   have packing cubes they have garment [TS]

00:38:58   sleeves all these things that you can [TS]

00:39:00   use to complete your travel kit if [TS]

00:39:01   you're like a travel pro user you want [TS]

00:39:03   some of these accessories to really help [TS]

00:39:05   out a way also offers a lifetime [TS]

00:39:07   warranty on all their stuff if anything [TS]

00:39:09   breaks they will fix or replace it for [TS]

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00:39:14   and try it out for a hundred days and if [TS]

00:39:17   you don't like it you can return it no [TS]

00:39:19   questions asked a hundred you can travel [TS]

00:39:21   with it [TS]

00:39:21   just if it's not for you they're so [TS]

00:39:24   confident but they know most people are [TS]

00:39:25   gonna keep it so if it's not for you you [TS]

00:39:27   can return it no questions asked [TS]

00:39:28   it's wonderful check it out today [TS]

00:39:30   Attaway travel calm slash ATP and use [TS]

00:39:34   promo code ATP during checkout for $20 [TS]

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00:39:39   away we're sponsoring our show any other [TS]

00:39:44   home pod thoughts John how do you like [TS]

00:39:46   yours I was actually thinking of getting [TS]

00:39:49   along as I thought I have wanted to get [TS]

00:39:50   one that at a steep discount because [TS]

00:39:52   like I said I have a place to put it oh [TS]

00:39:53   my god I want to hear how it sounds but [TS]

00:39:55   I am NOT [TS]

00:39:56   able to have not been able to secure one [TS]

00:39:58   for less than retail price for [TS]

00:40:00   significantly less than retail price and [TS]

00:40:02   so I'm still back to well I'm not paying [TS]

00:40:04   three four dollars for it so I'm still [TS]

00:40:06   I'm still holding out one thing also you [TS]

00:40:08   know we've had a lot more impressions [TS]

00:40:10   and reviews and and like kind of like [TS]

00:40:11   real real-world test and impression that [TS]

00:40:13   have come out the opinion and the sound [TS]

00:40:15   quality is starting to be get a little [TS]

00:40:17   bit split most people still think it [TS]

00:40:19   sounds amazing but there are some people [TS]

00:40:21   who have heard them and come out of it [TS]

00:40:23   saying I actually don't like the sound [TS]

00:40:24   and I think it's interesting like it [TS]

00:40:26   most of the complaints tend to be either [TS]

00:40:28   the processing is doing something weird [TS]

00:40:30   with the mid-range that doesn't agree [TS]

00:40:32   with their music or their tastes or a [TS]

00:40:35   common complaint is the bass is just too [TS]

00:40:37   prominent and you know it's it's hard at [TS]

00:40:40   the home pod because it does room [TS]

00:40:43   calibration and because it like is [TS]

00:40:45   listening to the bass response and [TS]

00:40:46   dynamically adjusting it and things like [TS]

00:40:48   that and because it does so much [TS]

00:40:51   processing on the audio to try to [TS]

00:40:53   separate the components out into and [TS]

00:40:55   into different positions in the room and [TS]

00:40:56   everything because it's so complex like [TS]

00:40:59   that it's really hard to get an idea of [TS]

00:41:02   what it sounds like [TS]

00:41:04   because it could sound like lots of [TS]

00:41:06   different things and and it whether the [TS]

00:41:09   sound works for you can be highly [TS]

00:41:11   dependent on what the home pod has [TS]

00:41:14   calibrated to for your room and also how [TS]

00:41:18   its processing things like you know [TS]

00:41:20   centering part of the mid-range that [TS]

00:41:21   thinks it's vocals and then putting [TS]

00:41:22   parts of instruments in the background [TS]

00:41:24   that think those are instruments and [TS]

00:41:25   whether that works for certain songs or [TS]

00:41:27   not it's gonna be a really hard thing to [TS]

00:41:30   get a handle on like whether it works [TS]

00:41:32   for you or not without actually just [TS]

00:41:33   trying one because it's going to vary so [TS]

00:41:37   much and even like trying to test it [TS]

00:41:39   like there was that reddit post where [TS]

00:41:41   like the guy you know did allegedly a [TS]

00:41:43   controlled test although it wasn't that [TS]

00:41:45   controlled and and you know measuring [TS]

00:41:48   its frequency response and distortion [TS]

00:41:49   and things like that but that's really [TS]

00:41:51   hard to test on the home pod because [TS]

00:41:52   it's doing so much processing to the [TS]

00:41:54   sound you really can't get a good handle [TS]

00:41:56   on what it will always output because [TS]

00:41:59   there is no one frequency response or [TS]

00:42:02   one distortion rate that it will always [TS]

00:42:04   output because it's doing things to the [TS]

00:42:06   to the input sounds you know based on [TS]

00:42:08   various intelligence and [TS]

00:42:10   and heuristics and stuff so it's really [TS]

00:42:12   hard to get a solid idea on whether it's [TS]

00:42:15   for you without just listening to it and [TS]

00:42:17   without trying your music in your house [TS]

00:42:20   and you're in the room that you want to [TS]

00:42:21   put it in to see for yourself but I do [TS]

00:42:24   think that not having any tone controls [TS]

00:42:28   is probably a mistake because you know [TS]

00:42:32   the echo doesn't have any tone controls [TS]

00:42:34   as far as I know but the echo sounds [TS]

00:42:35   like garbage so it doesn't really matter [TS]

00:42:37   like no one's seeking good sound quality [TS]

00:42:39   out of that and Amazon's not selling it [TS]

00:42:41   as good sound quality so nose has tone [TS]

00:42:43   controls I think Google who knew who [TS]

00:42:45   knows who cares [TS]

00:42:47   but because Apple is positioning this as [TS]

00:42:49   a really good speaker and also because [TS]

00:42:53   they're doing so much [TS]

00:42:54   non-standard processing of the audio I [TS]

00:42:57   think they need to offer some kind of [TS]

00:43:00   basic tone control even with as simple [TS]

00:43:03   as like how much base do you want like [TS]

00:43:05   that I think might need to be a control [TS]

00:43:08   because a lot of people have reported [TS]

00:43:09   that not agreeing with them but it's [TS]

00:43:12   because it's really hard to design a [TS]

00:43:14   speaker that appeals to everybody it's [TS]

00:43:17   even harder when you're doing very heavy [TS]

00:43:21   and and non-standard things to the audio [TS]

00:43:25   not just replaying it out of transducer [TS]

00:43:28   that sounds like a feature and when we [TS]

00:43:30   talked to this before about how you know [TS]

00:43:31   yeah the hardware it's just a question [TS]

00:43:33   of adding software updates to it that [TS]

00:43:34   sounds like a feature that could come in [TS]

00:43:36   a fairly soon in a software update and [TS]

00:43:38   like you said just even just for bass [TS]

00:43:40   response I'm not even saying they're [TS]

00:43:41   gonna throw like give you I mean an [TS]

00:43:43   equaliser because almost every other [TS]

00:43:45   audio thing that Apple sells weathers I [TS]

00:43:47   think iPhones have it in the music app [TS]

00:43:49   don't they will certainly iTunes does [TS]

00:43:50   has an equalizer it's in the Settings [TS]

00:43:52   app yeah it but it's only for music [TS]

00:43:54   played in the music app it doesn't apply [TS]

00:43:55   system-wide and also it isn't a real [TS]

00:43:57   equalizer they don't they only have [TS]

00:43:58   presets they it's like the same like 10 [TS]

00:44:01   or 15 presets rock and pop and random [TS]

00:44:04   yeah the same ones that iPods had like [TS]

00:44:06   10 years ago they have not changed and [TS]

00:44:08   there is no actual equalizer for you to [TS]

00:44:11   just like if you want to get in there [TS]

00:44:12   and define your own thing you can't if [TS]

00:44:14   you want to like adjust certain [TS]

00:44:15   frequencies for certain things you can't [TS]

00:44:16   I get the feeling most people just [TS]

00:44:18   probably don't use it yeah but anyway [TS]

00:44:20   iTunes has a full equalizer but they're [TS]

00:44:21   like the home pod like you said it [TS]

00:44:22   doesn't need any closet doesn't need [TS]

00:44:23   presets it just needs [TS]

00:44:24   one slider for bass and that's it yeah [TS]

00:44:26   like that would that would go a long way [TS]

00:44:28   towards making it appeal to a much wider [TS]

00:44:31   range of people and and and I would say [TS]

00:44:33   that it's like should go up as well as [TS]

00:44:35   down because some people want more bass [TS]

00:44:36   than the home pod puts out right I mean [TS]

00:44:38   that's why you know Beats headphones are [TS]

00:44:40   so popular right beyond that I think [TS]

00:44:44   there is not because of all the dynamic [TS]

00:44:47   adjustability stuff there's probably not [TS]

00:44:49   that much more control that you can give [TS]

00:44:52   people because it's like what are they [TS]

00:44:53   even controlling are they controlling [TS]

00:44:55   the final output or they control them [TS]

00:44:57   like the input before the home pod [TS]

00:44:58   decides how it's going to interpret that [TS]

00:45:00   like are they controlling the signal [TS]

00:45:01   before it goes into the home pods [TS]

00:45:02   processing or are they just like you [TS]

00:45:05   know the bass is easy you can just you [TS]

00:45:06   know lower the output to the one big [TS]

00:45:08   speaker that you know most of the bass [TS]

00:45:09   workers are sent to but for everything [TS]

00:45:11   else I think he gets a little bit tricky [TS]

00:45:13   agreed and anyway I feels like a [TS]

00:45:17   no-brainer update to me for a software [TS]

00:45:20   update their bull they widen the appeal [TS]

00:45:23   of this device for the what are you [TS]

00:45:26   talking about the the testing they had [TS]

00:45:28   that blind test that Pogue did oh yeah [TS]

00:45:30   that was pretty good too well here's [TS]

00:45:33   this thing here's the thing about this [TS]

00:45:34   test like you mentioned I think you [TS]

00:45:37   don't wear this on Twitter how [TS]

00:45:40   subjective sound is oh yeah start by - [TS]

00:45:42   some people like lots of bass some [TS]

00:45:43   people like not as much some people have [TS]

00:45:45   certain reactions to certain songs sound [TS]

00:45:47   certain way and it's it's very [TS]

00:45:49   subjective and then doing any kind of [TS]

00:45:53   audio sort of blind testing even though [TS]

00:45:58   David Polk said he well he said I figure [TS]

00:46:02   bridge boarding was but he basically [TS]

00:46:03   said I tried to volume match them by ear [TS]

00:46:05   like cuz that's it very important about [TS]

00:46:07   the thing about sound test is one thing [TS]

00:46:09   we know if you make one speaker selected [TS]

00:46:10   louder everyone picks it as the best no [TS]

00:46:12   matter how bad it sounds like well [TS]

00:46:13   people are very sensitive to volume [TS]

00:46:15   right so it's important for all the [TS]

00:46:16   speakers to be the same volume but the [TS]

00:46:19   way you get them all the same volume is [TS]

00:46:20   probably not listening to them all and [TS]

00:46:22   saying yeah I feel like they're about [TS]

00:46:23   the same volume and furthermore how do [TS]

00:46:25   you even adjust the volume on a thing [TS]

00:46:27   that is dynamically changing how it [TS]

00:46:29   outputs sound based on what it detects [TS]

00:46:31   about the room like how do you even [TS]

00:46:33   adjust the home pod volume it's very [TS]

00:46:36   difficult to do and then finally how [TS]

00:46:37   many [TS]

00:46:38   detest it I put it in front of four [TS]

00:46:39   people that make I guess you get an [TS]

00:46:41   article out of that you know did you put [TS]

00:46:44   in front of 400 people like even if you [TS]

00:46:47   did all you'd be doing is getting a [TS]

00:46:48   survey of what people think of the home [TS]

00:46:50   pod that's why I feel like the frequency [TS]

00:46:51   response things at least it's it gives [TS]

00:46:53   you a baseline doesn't mean that you [TS]

00:46:54   know like frequency response like here's [TS]

00:46:57   here's it ideal here's what it sounds [TS]

00:46:58   like doesn't mean you're gonna like how [TS]

00:46:59   it sounds but at least it's something [TS]

00:47:00   that you can measure so if you know that [TS]

00:47:02   you like speakers that are dead on for [TS]

00:47:04   the you know expect to frequency [TS]

00:47:05   response you will like the home pod if [TS]

00:47:07   it's close to that and if you don't like [TS]

00:47:08   speakers that are like that you won't [TS]

00:47:10   like the home pod so let's someone read [TS]

00:47:12   something and especially with an [TS]

00:47:14   auto-fire audiophile probably know am I [TS]

00:47:17   going to like the sound of the speaker [TS]

00:47:19   because we've done some objective [TS]

00:47:20   measurements on the speaker and then you [TS]

00:47:22   can decide do you like speakers that [TS]

00:47:23   have measurements like this or do you [TS]

00:47:24   not like them and again only audio files [TS]

00:47:26   we know that for everybody else it's [TS]

00:47:27   just kind of a crapshoot you buy it you [TS]

00:47:29   put it in your house where you're gonna [TS]

00:47:31   put it you listen to it and you either [TS]

00:47:32   like it or you don't and if most people [TS]

00:47:35   are comparing to the echo I can't [TS]

00:47:37   imagine anyone not liking it because as [TS]

00:47:38   you said the echo sounds terrible [TS]

00:47:40   because that's not what it's supposed to [TS]

00:47:42   do but for comparing it to Sonos and [TS]

00:47:46   other things that are high-quality I'm [TS]

00:47:48   not sure like if someone was asking me [TS]

00:47:51   for advice [TS]

00:47:52   should I get a sonĂ­s or a home pod which [TS]

00:47:54   sounds better I don't think there's any [TS]

00:47:56   answer I can give them that is the truth [TS]

00:47:59   it's like they're both good speakers I [TS]

00:48:01   think you'll have to hear each of them [TS]

00:48:03   in the environment where it's gonna be [TS]

00:48:04   and then return the one you don't like [TS]

00:48:05   which is answer nobody wants to hear but [TS]

00:48:07   that's just the nature of sound I think [TS]

00:48:09   oh absolutely I mean this is what I was [TS]

00:48:11   running on Twitter like first of all [TS]

00:48:13   nobody can really agree on what is like [TS]

00:48:18   a good frequency response like a lot of [TS]

00:48:20   people think oh you want it to be flat [TS]

00:48:21   you don't and people can't agree on what [TS]

00:48:25   the curve should be there's a couple of [TS]

00:48:27   like you know what why they know his [TS]

00:48:28   standards like there's like a Harman [TS]

00:48:29   Kardon one that a lot of like the Harman [TS]

00:48:32   curve that a lot of manufacturers use or [TS]

00:48:35   set as their goal but like I find the [TS]

00:48:38   Harman curve fairly boring because it [TS]

00:48:40   really is weak on the treble side and I [TS]

00:48:42   like I like some some treble strains and [TS]

00:48:44   and I found it a little bit withdraws [TS]

00:48:46   the vocals and I like some vocals and [TS]

00:48:48   and so everyone has different tastes [TS]

00:48:51   M an audiophile who used to compare [TS]

00:48:53   products online by looking at their [TS]

00:48:55   frequency response progress like I made [TS]

00:48:57   so many headphone purchases or avoided [TS]

00:49:00   so many headphones because I looked at [TS]

00:49:02   their frequency response graph and [TS]

00:49:03   thought you know what either either oh [TS]

00:49:05   that looks like something I would like [TS]

00:49:06   or that looks like another Harman curve [TS]

00:49:09   headphone and I'm probably wouldn't like [TS]

00:49:11   that but I have found that frequency [TS]

00:49:15   response graphs can almost never really [TS]

00:49:18   provide useful input for whether [TS]

00:49:22   something will sound appealing to you [TS]

00:49:24   when you actually have it and it's even [TS]

00:49:26   more and that's just with headphones [TS]

00:49:27   headphones are super easy to test and [TS]

00:49:29   very their their output is very [TS]

00:49:32   reproducible because you don't really [TS]

00:49:34   have the room to worry about speakers [TS]

00:49:36   are a nightmare of inconsistency because [TS]

00:49:39   they depend so much on the room and the [TS]

00:49:43   placement of the speaker's and where you [TS]

00:49:44   are sitting around to the speakers that [TS]

00:49:46   it's it's almost impossible to have any [TS]

00:49:49   idea how a speaker will sound and unless [TS]

00:49:52   you actually put it in the room it's [TS]

00:49:54   going in and just try it which is really [TS]

00:49:56   inconvenient speakers because they can [TS]

00:49:57   be quite large and quite heavy and a lot [TS]

00:49:59   of times you've got I just have to buy [TS]

00:50:00   blind and just hope it works out [TS]

00:50:02   fortunately these are you know this kind [TS]

00:50:04   of speaker is much smaller and much [TS]

00:50:05   easier to buy and return if it doesn't [TS]

00:50:07   work out but all this is to say that you [TS]

00:50:11   can't look at any measurements or read [TS]

00:50:13   any reviews or for God's sake watch any [TS]

00:50:16   videos like a video is completely [TS]

00:50:20   useless for letting you hear how a [TS]

00:50:22   speaker will sound like I don't know why [TS]

00:50:24   people keep doing this because you know [TS]

00:50:26   going through a different microphone and [TS]

00:50:27   then out whatever your speakers are it's [TS]

00:50:29   totally garbage um the only way to [TS]

00:50:32   really know how it will sound and [TS]

00:50:33   whether you will like it is to get it in [TS]

00:50:35   your house and just try it and and the [TS]

00:50:38   home pod you know it seems like people [TS]

00:50:40   do generally like it so it seems like [TS]

00:50:42   you know your chances are good this will [TS]

00:50:43   probably work out for you if you're [TS]

00:50:45   interested but none of these tests are [TS]

00:50:49   particularly useful and no frequency [TS]

00:50:51   response graph or measurements really [TS]

00:50:54   are very useful it for this product from [TS]

00:50:55   so many reasons not not least of which [TS]

00:50:58   is the massive processing it does but [TS]

00:51:00   you know also just these graphs aren't [TS]

00:51:02   useful most of the time anyway for any [TS]

00:51:05   and to be fair I think the first round [TS]

00:51:07   of reviews struck the right balance [TS]

00:51:09   because mostly the things you want to [TS]

00:51:11   know that are that anyone could tell is [TS]

00:51:13   like how loud does it get without [TS]

00:51:16   distorting because we've all had small [TS]

00:51:17   speakers that strain to be heard when [TS]

00:51:19   you're far away and if you crank the [TS]

00:51:21   volume up to max they just start [TS]

00:51:22   distorting heavily like that's I don't [TS]

00:51:24   think you need instruments to measure [TS]

00:51:26   that you can kind of say like you know [TS]

00:51:27   your your iPhone for example your iPhone [TS]

00:51:30   at max volume it's not going to fill a [TS]

00:51:32   room with sound you don't need to any [TS]

00:51:33   instruments to measure that you can tell [TS]

00:51:35   and is it faithfully reproduce in the [TS]

00:51:37   sound or a max volume is somewhat [TS]

00:51:39   distorted and certain frequencies like [TS]

00:51:41   you don't need to be an auto file to get [TS]

00:51:42   us out it's not that's not really what [TS]

00:51:44   this song sounds like and at max volume [TS]

00:51:46   it's not particularly loud right so I [TS]

00:51:49   mean obviously this is an extreme right [TS]

00:51:50   but anyone home part review said this [TS]

00:51:54   gets surprisingly loud and even at high [TS]

00:51:57   volumes it doesn't start fuzzing out and [TS]

00:51:59   sounding terrible and overall the sound [TS]

00:52:01   quality is pretty good and that I think [TS]

00:52:03   is the right balance to strike for this [TS]

00:52:06   type of review because if you start [TS]

00:52:07   saying things beyond that like direct [TS]

00:52:10   comparison with the Sonos play v or play [TS]

00:52:13   one or anything like that it's just too [TS]

00:52:15   subjective to say anything definitive [TS]

00:52:18   about until you start getting out them [TS]

00:52:19   the instruments and you know and then [TS]

00:52:21   once you get out the instruments the [TS]

00:52:22   home pod defies you because you stick an [TS]

00:52:24   instrument close to it and it thinks [TS]

00:52:25   it's next to a wall or something and [TS]

00:52:26   just the sound in a weird way and you [TS]

00:52:28   have no idea what's going on that was [TS]

00:52:29   the question with the Sheep they put in [TS]

00:52:30   front of like to be a blind test was the [TS]

00:52:33   home pod detecting that the sheet was [TS]

00:52:34   there even though it's supposed to be [TS]

00:52:35   acoustically transparent does I think [TS]

00:52:36   it's a wall it's trying to bounce sound [TS]

00:52:37   off it and doing something weird who [TS]

00:52:39   knows we have no visibility into the [TS]

00:52:41   black box that is there the black [TS]

00:52:42   cylinder that is the home PI or space [TS]

00:52:45   gray or white anyway I'm still I'm still [TS]

00:52:47   interested to try one in my house and [TS]

00:52:49   see how it sounds but still not [TS]

00:52:51   interested enough to plunk down 250 [TS]

00:52:53   bucks that's exactly how I feel and yeah [TS]

00:52:55   I would I was really hoping that mr. I [TS]

00:52:57   all I do is spend money would come [TS]

00:53:00   through for us on this one but I thought [TS]

00:53:01   about it you've led us down John he's [TS]

00:53:03   getting there give him a couple more [TS]

00:53:05   weeks yeah I mean probably but so like [TS]

00:53:07   if I'm honest with myself yeah probably [TS]

00:53:09   by next week's show one more thing to [TS]

00:53:12   consider though is like this is a [TS]

00:53:13   product that has shipped without some of [TS]

00:53:16   its major features they just didn't make [TS]

00:53:18   it [TS]

00:53:19   you know it if you know definitely [TS]

00:53:20   obviously it lacks airplay too that's [TS]

00:53:23   the big one and that also means it lacks [TS]

00:53:25   multi chant or multi speaker stereo [TS]

00:53:27   pairing it lacks multi room and also [TS]

00:53:31   Siri is greatly lacking in a lot of [TS]

00:53:34   areas some small some pretty big it is I [TS]

00:53:38   have a feeling this product is going to [TS]

00:53:39   grow slowly I'm feeling that there's [TS]

00:53:42   gonna be a lot of people who like are [TS]

00:53:43   waiting for one of those things to get [TS]

00:53:45   fixed I would caution people don't buy [TS]

00:53:49   it today unless you are ok with the [TS]

00:53:52   features and Siri that it has today and [TS]

00:53:56   this is not a statement of an apple this [TS]

00:53:58   is a statement about all tech products [TS]

00:54:00   never buy tech products based on future [TS]

00:54:03   software or service promises because so [TS]

00:54:07   often they either don't deliver or they [TS]

00:54:10   deliver really late or incomplete or [TS]

00:54:12   just crappy and so whatever the home pod [TS]

00:54:16   like if you're on the fence about the [TS]

00:54:17   home pod is like well this one [TS]

00:54:19   limitation of Siri you know but they'll [TS]

00:54:20   fix it in a software update assume they [TS]

00:54:23   won't assume they never will fix it if [TS]

00:54:26   you still want it ok it's safe to buy [TS]

00:54:28   but don't buy it based on the assumption [TS]

00:54:31   of some future thing that they will [TS]

00:54:33   change or improve or add until that [TS]

00:54:35   thing is actually delivered and that's [TS]

00:54:38   that applies to all tech products yeah [TS]

00:54:41   how is your full autopilot working out [TS]

00:54:43   on your car I never bought full [TS]

00:54:45   autopilot and I I would not recommend [TS]

00:54:46   anybody by Tesla's full autopilot until [TS]

00:54:48   it's actually released and demonstrated [TS]

00:54:50   you can add it later for a small [TS]

00:54:51   additional charge no we had this [TS]

00:54:53   conversation privately a few days ago [TS]

00:54:54   that's exactly why I brought it up yeah [TS]

00:54:57   I as always i'm waffling on the idea of [TS]

00:55:00   a home pod in so many ways i like the [TS]

00:55:02   idea of having a really small but really [TS]

00:55:04   really good sounding that's you know [TS]

00:55:06   it's ostensibly speaker but i still have [TS]

00:55:09   him struggling to find an actual [TS]

00:55:11   justification for 350 bucks if this was [TS]

00:55:13   a hundred bucks which I'm not saying [TS]

00:55:14   it's overpriced necessarily I'm just [TS]

00:55:16   saying if it was a hundred dollars I [TS]

00:55:18   think I would have bought it and just [TS]

00:55:19   said yeah the hell with it I'll give it [TS]

00:55:20   a shot but a three and fifty dollars [TS]

00:55:22   that for me anyway is something where I [TS]

00:55:24   have to weigh the pros and cons and it's [TS]

00:55:25   just it right now I'm with John it's [TS]

00:55:28   just not compelling enough for me to [TS]

00:55:30   spend the money so when I have one [TS]

00:55:31   week you can all laugh at me and we'll [TS]

00:55:33   play this we'll play this clip back so [TS]

00:55:34   what color are you not getting next week [TS]

00:55:36   oh definitely not definitely not see I [TS]

00:55:40   would have to not get the white to live [TS]

00:55:42   next to my echo mm so you would get [TS]

00:55:45   white and I would get black hmm funny [TS]

00:55:47   how that is we are sponsored this week [TS]

00:55:50   by Eero finally Wi-Fi that works visit [TS]

00:55:53   eurocom and he was code atpa check out [TS]

00:55:55   for free overnight shipping to the US [TS]

00:55:57   and canada we've tried for years to [TS]

00:55:59   cover our entire houses and Wi-Fi [TS]

00:56:02   without any dead zones or slow areas and [TS]

00:56:04   it's really hard because when you only [TS]

00:56:06   have one router there's always just [TS]

00:56:08   inherently going to be dead zones [TS]

00:56:10   because of things like walls and real [TS]

00:56:12   life with ero they solve this problem [TS]

00:56:14   with by having a distributed Wi-Fi [TS]

00:56:16   system there's multiple routers that you [TS]

00:56:18   plug in throughout your house and they [TS]

00:56:21   they share the connection and you don't [TS]

00:56:22   even have to hardwire them they [TS]

00:56:24   wirelessly talk to each other and they [TS]

00:56:26   blanket your entire home in fast [TS]

00:56:29   reliable Wi-Fi this is an [TS]

00:56:31   enterprise-grade system with [TS]

00:56:33   enterprise-grade functionality and speed [TS]

00:56:35   and reliability but not enterprise-grade [TS]

00:56:37   complexity it is super easy to set up [TS]

00:56:39   the new Eero hardware is also incredibly [TS]

00:56:42   nice it just looks really nice it's [TS]

00:56:44   small it's discreet [TS]

00:56:45   the base station is about the size of an [TS]

00:56:47   Apple TV or so and it's nice and white [TS]

00:56:49   and they now have the second-generation [TS]

00:56:50   hardware it's nice and fast there's [TS]

00:56:52   triple band radios and all sorts of [TS]

00:56:54   wonderful new advanced technology and [TS]

00:56:56   then the kind of accessory satellite [TS]

00:56:58   base stations they now have these zero [TS]

00:57:01   beacons this is a also a new [TS]

00:57:03   second-generation piece of hardware [TS]

00:57:05   tri-band twice as fast as its [TS]

00:57:07   predecessor and the beacon is this nice [TS]

00:57:09   small almost like you know plug in an [TS]

00:57:12   outlet it just sits flush against the [TS]

00:57:14   outlet and that is your little Wi-Fi [TS]

00:57:16   like for Peter four different parts of [TS]

00:57:18   your house there they're so small you [TS]

00:57:20   wouldn't even even put you know put them [TS]

00:57:21   in a hallway you wouldn't even notice [TS]

00:57:23   them they're wonderful and this blankets [TS]

00:57:25   your house and fast reliable coverage [TS]

00:57:27   it's the kind of system that businesses [TS]

00:57:29   have used for years to cover their whole [TS]

00:57:31   businesses but that was always too [TS]

00:57:32   complex for home users [TS]

00:57:34   Eero has made it super easy and super [TS]

00:57:36   reliable and quite affordable if I may [TS]

00:57:38   say the single router system just [TS]

00:57:41   doesn't work you need a distributed [TS]

00:57:42   system and Eero is by far the [TS]

00:57:45   when I've ever seen to set up it's [TS]

00:57:46   wonderful so check it out today go to [TS]

00:57:48   ero calm and use promo code ATP at [TS]

00:57:51   checkout and you will get free overnight [TS]

00:57:54   shipping to the US or Canada thank you [TS]

00:57:56   so much to ero for sponsoring our show [TS]

00:57:59   [Music] [TS]

00:58:01   I've been using Waze for a year and I [TS]

00:58:05   added it to the topic list a year ago [TS]

00:58:08   because I wanted to spend five seconds [TS]

00:58:09   saying you know what I use Waze and it's [TS]

00:58:11   awesome and John's like oh I have a lot [TS]

00:58:13   to say about that it has to be a full [TS]

00:58:14   topic and it's absolute has no topic [TS]

00:58:16   list and it's been floating on the topic [TS]

00:58:18   list for a year right at about spot [TS]

00:58:21   number four and most shows we have three [TS]

00:58:24   topics so it has never gotten into the [TS]

00:58:26   make topic list and we've always been [TS]

00:58:28   like one topic away from covering the [TS]

00:58:31   Waze topic and I have no idea what John [TS]

00:58:34   wants to say about it what I want to say [TS]

00:58:35   about it would you know take maybe five [TS]

00:58:36   minutes but well let's let's have you do [TS]

00:58:39   an opening statement then you know let's [TS]

00:58:40   test that five minute idea look everyone [TS]

00:58:43   look at the time stamp right now and go [TS]

00:58:46   so I have used a lot of GPS systems [TS]

00:58:51   either in cars or as apps on computers [TS]

00:58:54   first laptops and then phones many of [TS]

00:58:57   them try to be smart about routing you [TS]

00:58:59   around traffic or even just the basic [TS]

00:59:02   routing you know tries to be smart in [TS]

00:59:03   some degree but many of them try to be [TS]

00:59:05   smart like when there's traffic when [TS]

00:59:07   they if they have some kind of an [TS]

00:59:07   internet connectivity for traffic [TS]

00:59:09   service like they detect traffic and [TS]

00:59:11   they try to route you around or they [TS]

00:59:12   offer you like alternative like hey you [TS]

00:59:15   can go over here and save ten minutes [TS]

00:59:16   then you take you off some weirdo like [TS]

00:59:18   crazy path through residential areas or [TS]

00:59:21   off a cliff or whatever those I have [TS]

00:59:23   found have almost no credibility [TS]

00:59:26   whatsoever [TS]

00:59:27   almost every time one of the traffic [TS]

00:59:30   routing apps has suggested a route to me [TS]

00:59:34   to save time it almost never does save [TS]

00:59:35   time and it almost always makes me [TS]

00:59:38   regret having done it because of some [TS]

00:59:39   weird place it brings me through whether [TS]

00:59:42   it's like you know really narrow roads [TS]

00:59:44   or like dirt roads or like going through [TS]

00:59:46   like you know really like you know bad [TS]

00:59:49   neighborhoods or residential areas that [TS]

00:59:51   like it's just really weird to just keep [TS]

00:59:53   going through a million stop signs in [TS]

00:59:54   front of people's houses and stuff like [TS]

00:59:56   that I started going to Long Island a la [TS]

00:59:59   for the bee [TS]