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01:00:00 ◼   ► possibly not be true who would ever

01:00:01 ◼   ► confess to a crime that they haven't

01:00:03 ◼   ► committed and I was watching this I just

01:00:05 ◼   ► kept thinking why don't we have

01:00:08 ◼   ► professional jurors I don't understand

01:00:12 ◼   ► why it's like an advantage to pull a

01:00:17 ◼   ► bunch of randos off the street and have

01:00:22 ◼   ► them being the one in in the trial

01:00:25 ◼   ► circumstances

01:00:26 ◼   ► well because here's the thing I feel

01:00:28 ◼   ► like having watched a bunch of these

01:00:29 ◼   ► episodes this idea kept coming into my

01:00:33 ◼   ► head that part of the problem

01:00:34 ◼   ► is not even just that you can manipulate

01:00:37 ◼   ► a person into confessing a crime that

01:00:39 ◼   ► they did not commit the other half of

01:00:42 ◼   ► the problem is the way that the

01:00:44 ◼   ► prosecution can manipulate the jury to

01:00:48 ◼   ► get a win for the prosecution because

01:00:51 ◼   ► the jurors are unfamiliar with what the

01:00:53 ◼   ► system is surely it would be an

01:00:56 ◼   ► advantage to have people who are

01:00:59 ◼   ► professional jurors who are familiar

01:01:02 ◼   ► with how the whole system works doing

01:01:05 ◼   ► this who don't have to a newbie

01:01:08 ◼   ► explained every time here's what police

01:01:11 ◼   ► procedures should be who don't have to

01:01:13 ◼   ► anew every time be introduced to and

01:01:17 ◼   ► convinced and sold on the idea that a

01:01:20 ◼   ► confession is not as a reliable piece of

01:01:23 ◼   ► evidence as you think it is it's just

01:01:25 ◼   ► blowing my mind thinking about the

01:01:26 ◼   ► man-hours as a society we must invest in

01:01:31 ◼   ► re-explaining stuff too every brand-new

01:01:36 ◼   ► pool of jurors that exists and I'm just

01:01:41 ◼   ► what like is there something that I'm

01:01:42 ◼   ► missing here is there an argument

01:01:43 ◼   ► against professional jurors I've never

01:01:45 ◼   ► really thought about it until yesterday

01:01:48 ◼   ► and today when I was watching these

01:01:49 ◼   ► episodes but it's just like I can't get

01:01:50 ◼   ► this out of my head why is this not a

01:01:52 ◼   ► thing that we have oh you're making my

01:01:55 ◼   ► head explode

01:01:55 ◼   ► I've thought of so many things to say I

01:01:57 ◼   ► can't remember the moment well I mean

01:02:00 ◼   ► every jurisdiction is different and I

01:02:02 ◼   ► finally talked about jurisdictions in

01:02:04 ◼   ► which I've have experiences like a

01:02:06 ◼   ► journalist and have lived in the first

01:02:08 ◼   ► thing I'd say is in most of the places

01:02:10 ◼   ► I've lived we do have professional do

01:02:13 ◼   ► their code judges and in a lot of

01:02:16 ◼   ► jurisdictions you can choose if you wish

01:02:18 ◼   ► to be judged by the judge the

01:02:21 ◼   ► professional juror instead of a jury of

01:02:24 ◼   ► civilians and the reason most people

01:02:27 ◼   ► don't do that is because juries are

01:02:30 ◼   ► actually in the defense's best interest

01:02:32 ◼   ► in most cases and they would prefer to

01:02:34 ◼   ► have a jury so suggesting that a juries

01:02:36 ◼   ► are too easily manipulated by the

01:02:37 ◼   ► prosecution I think it's the exact

01:02:39 ◼   ► opposite and they're too easily

01:02:40 ◼   ► manipulated by the defense well I think

01:02:42 ◼   ► we could say that they're too easily

01:02:43 ◼   ► manipulated right well fair enough and

01:02:46 ◼   ► we have this thing that it's enshrined

01:02:47 ◼   ► in law in some places that you can be

01:02:50 ◼   ► tried by your peers and it's not

01:02:52 ◼   ► enshrined in law that you can be tried

01:02:55 ◼   ► by professionally appointed government

01:02:58 ◼   ► appointed officials who are part of like

01:03:01 ◼   ► the establishment and I think that would

01:03:04 ◼   ► cause an even bigger problem if everyone

01:03:05 ◼   ► was being tried by government appointees

01:03:07 ◼   ► you can see that's the thin end of a

01:03:09 ◼   ► wedge that's going to get really

01:03:10 ◼   ► problematic really quickly I think when

01:03:13 ◼   ► you say it like professional jurors

01:03:15 ◼   ► you've got this nice idea in your head

01:03:16 ◼   ► of like you know just smart super fair

01:03:19 ◼   ► impartial people but they have to be

01:03:21 ◼   ► appointed and who appoints them a

01:03:23 ◼   ► government and as soon as you say

01:03:25 ◼   ► government appointed officials are going

01:03:27 ◼   ► to be deciding who's innocent and guilty

01:03:28 ◼   ► you've totally lost this tried by your

01:03:31 ◼   ► peers component of the law that is so

01:03:34 ◼   ► sacred to so many people yeah I don't

01:03:36 ◼   ► think the judge gets around that though

01:03:38 ◼   ► like when you say oh you can be tried by

01:03:40 ◼   ► professional juror who was a judge to me

01:03:42 ◼   ► that the terrifying thing about the

01:03:43 ◼   ► judge is that they are one person I feel

01:03:46 ◼   ► like I would almost never want to roll

01:03:48 ◼   ► the dice on a single person because a

01:03:50 ◼   ► single person is too unreliable that's

01:03:52 ◼   ► why you have multiple jurors there you

01:03:55 ◼   ► do actually there are some cases by the

01:03:56 ◼   ► way that can be heard by three judges

01:03:58 ◼   ► okay that's much better

01:03:59 ◼   ► we're splitting hairs now but no no but

01:04:01 ◼   ► that does make a difference if I had to

01:04:03 ◼   ► choose between like a trial by jury and

01:04:06 ◼   ► three judges that is much more of a real

01:04:09 ◼   ► consideration although that does start

01:04:11 ◼   ► getting into against some of the America

01:04:13 ◼   ► specific scary stuff first like but the

01:04:14 ◼   ► judges need to be elected and then it's

01:04:16 ◼   ► like oh god now that's a little

01:04:17 ◼   ► different affair or even appointed but

01:04:19 ◼   ► also I haven't got numbers on this but

01:04:21 ◼   ► I'm almost certain that you get far more

01:04:23 ◼   ► acquittals from juries than you do from

01:04:25 ◼   ► judges so if you

01:04:26 ◼   ► like thinking of being wrongly accused

01:04:29 ◼   ► CGP grey i think you may want to

01:04:31 ◼   ► consider that the jury I think you do

01:04:33 ◼   ► raise a good point that there may be a

01:04:36 ◼   ► thin end of the wedge here which is how

01:04:40 ◼   ► does a professional jury member become

01:04:43 ◼   ► one of those people when you say like

01:04:45 ◼   ► their government to point it I was

01:04:46 ◼   ► saying like oh no but that they wouldn't

01:04:48 ◼   ► be like that it's like ah but obviously

01:04:49 ◼   ► ultimately the legal system in some way

01:04:52 ◼   ► would need to be deciding who is able to

01:04:54 ◼   ► become a professional juror and I

01:04:59 ◼   ► haven't really thought this through I'm

01:05:00 ◼   ► just I'm just thinking this out loud now

01:05:02 ◼   ► but I mean I don't know how much you

01:05:03 ◼   ► know about the UK justice system gray

01:05:05 ◼   ► but one thing they do this doesn't

01:05:08 ◼   ► really apply to you know murder trials

01:05:10 ◼   ► and stuff but you do have volunteer

01:05:13 ◼   ► magistrates through the country and

01:05:15 ◼   ► these are normally people who are like

01:05:16 ◼   ► respected people in good jobs and

01:05:19 ◼   ► they're and they'll volunteer a couple

01:05:20 ◼   ► of days a month to sit in the

01:05:23 ◼   ► magistrate's court and they become just

01:05:25 ◼   ► like a judge doing like high-volume

01:05:28 ◼   ► stuff with people who've you know had

01:05:30 ◼   ► minor run-ins with the law and they have

01:05:32 ◼   ► like a professional little committee

01:05:34 ◼   ► with them that advises them and tells

01:05:36 ◼   ► them how the law works and things they

01:05:37 ◼   ► can do but they sit there and show their

01:05:39 ◼   ► own discretion and and make decisions so

01:05:42 ◼   ► you mean like it like it's a civil court

01:05:43 ◼   ► no it's a proper court like it's a

01:05:45 ◼   ► Criminal Court but it's for more low

01:05:48 ◼   ► stakes infringement I don't know a lot

01:05:50 ◼   ► about it except I know a few people who

01:05:52 ◼   ► do it an old boss of mine at the BBC was

01:05:54 ◼   ► a magistrate for many years so once or

01:05:56 ◼   ► twice a month she would have to go and

01:05:57 ◼   ► do it and she would just sit there and

01:05:59 ◼   ► people would make their case to her and

01:06:02 ◼   ► she would decide whether they got a

01:06:04 ◼   ► rough ride or an easy ride and she had

01:06:06 ◼   ► experts there they'd be like a

01:06:07 ◼   ► magistrate's assistant that would tell

01:06:09 ◼   ► her here's what you can deal with his

01:06:11 ◼   ► what you can do you could sentence up to

01:06:13 ◼   ► this or you could do that but they got

01:06:15 ◼   ► to show the discretion and they were

01:06:16 ◼   ► almost like community judges but I mean

01:06:19 ◼   ► this is for low stakes stuff she wasn't

01:06:21 ◼   ► sitting there deciding whether or not

01:06:22 ◼   ► someone murdered their girlfriend yeah I

01:06:25 ◼   ► don't know I feel like you have

01:06:27 ◼   ► immediately thrown all of these monkey

01:06:28 ◼   ► wrenches into my poorly thought-out

01:06:30 ◼   ► ideas but I still have this emotional

01:06:32 ◼   ► response to what I view as like oh

01:06:34 ◼   ► you're just gonna have 12 randos pulled

01:06:38 ◼   ► off the streets

01:06:39 ◼   ► and they're unfamiliar with the whole

01:06:41 ◼   ► process and because I'm watching the

01:06:43 ◼   ► show about false confessions obviously

01:06:44 ◼   ► my concern is about being manipulated

01:06:46 ◼   ► into convicting someone but then again

01:06:48 ◼   ► like my scales of justice are weighed

01:06:50 ◼   ► very heavily on it's it's far worse to

01:06:54 ◼   ► convict an innocent person than to let a

01:06:56 ◼   ► guilty person go for you by far so

01:06:58 ◼   ► that's where my concern is but

01:07:00 ◼   ► nonetheless their inexperience allows

01:07:03 ◼   ► them to be manipulated by the defense as

01:07:07 ◼   ► well I don't know it's just it seems

01:07:09 ◼   ► like it's just in tremendous advantage

01:07:12 ◼   ► for the jurors not to all be noobs at

01:07:16 ◼   ► the job of handling people's lives I

01:07:18 ◼   ► don't know a way around this yeah I say

01:07:21 ◼   ► you made you feel that we're having to

01:07:23 ◼   ► reinvent the wheel every trial to my

01:07:25 ◼   ► mind the problem is also that you're

01:07:26 ◼   ► having these noobs go up against the

01:07:29 ◼   ► experts and so the trial lawyers on both

01:07:33 ◼   ► sides are able to see how jurors react

01:07:38 ◼   ► to different things over time or

01:07:40 ◼   ► different cases or different ways to

01:07:42 ◼   ► present things I just I feel like it is

01:07:44 ◼   ► extraordinarily asymmetric I just don't

01:07:49 ◼   ► think this is good or Eve even things

01:07:50 ◼   ► like you know my dad's a lawyer

01:07:51 ◼   ► and that basically excludes him from

01:07:54 ◼   ► ever being able to be on a jury ever

01:07:56 ◼   ► like when he's been called in to jury

01:07:57 ◼   ► duty it's like oh you're a lawyer get

01:07:59 ◼   ► out of here like we don't want you on

01:08:01 ◼   ► the jury have you ever been summoned for

01:08:03 ◼   ► jury duty I haven't but I'm gonna in a

01:08:06 ◼   ► bit of a funny situation getting

01:08:07 ◼   ► overseas but I received a summons and

01:08:11 ◼   ► then there's like a form that you fill

01:08:13 ◼   ► out that says lol I live 2,000 miles

01:08:16 ◼   ► away it's not it's not going to happen

01:08:18 ◼   ► I'm not coming back to North Carolina to

01:08:20 ◼   ► sit on a jury have you I never have no I

01:08:23 ◼   ► remember once being in a in a court

01:08:26 ◼   ► covering a trial and there was like a

01:08:28 ◼   ► fire evacuation in the court building

01:08:30 ◼   ► and we had to go out through the jury

01:08:32 ◼   ► room it was so exciting and getting to

01:08:34 ◼   ► go into the jury room and all their

01:08:35 ◼   ► personal stuff was lying around and it

01:08:37 ◼   ► was like oh this is so naughty because

01:08:38 ◼   ► they're so sacred to the jury getting to

01:08:40 ◼   ► go through their room was like a real

01:08:42 ◼   ► treat I imagine it was there and it was

01:08:45 ◼   ► like also often in the lunch break I

01:08:47 ◼   ► would go out into at the markets and get

01:08:49 ◼   ► food and like jurors from cases who I

01:08:51 ◼   ► was covering would be

01:08:53 ◼   ► out getting themselves a hot dog and a

01:08:54 ◼   ► milkshake as well and a bit like at the

01:08:57 ◼   ► airport when you're like really

01:08:58 ◼   ► conscientious about doing the right

01:08:59 ◼   ► thing I would make such an effort to not

01:09:02 ◼   ► look at them or talk to any jurors or be

01:09:03 ◼   ► seen going anywhere near any of them it

01:09:05 ◼   ► was crazy because you're very

01:09:09 ◼   ► responsible very response very

01:09:11 ◼   ► responsible member of the media

01:09:12 ◼   ► unlike in America all the crazy stuff

01:09:14 ◼   ► that can happen where you take a

01:09:15 ◼   ► bewildered guy you put him up through a

01:09:17 ◼   ► perp walk right in front of some cameras

01:09:18 ◼   ► and tell him to apologize to the world

01:09:20 ◼   ► for the thing that he's done it's like

01:09:21 ◼   ► oh absolutely crazy that that kind of

01:09:24 ◼   ► thing can happen in American media with

01:09:25 ◼   ► juries but if I was ever called I mean

01:09:29 ◼   ► of course I would do everything within

01:09:31 ◼   ► my human power to not sit on that jury

01:09:33 ◼   ► the number one thing being is I'd be

01:09:36 ◼   ► like I will disregard all eyewitness

01:09:39 ◼   ► testimony no matter what I'm pretty sure

01:09:41 ◼   ► just that would get me disqualified from

01:09:44 ◼   ► a jury immediately like I will not

01:09:46 ◼   ► listen to any of your eyewitness

01:09:47 ◼   ► testimony I really wouldn't want to be

01:09:49 ◼   ► in a jury because I think I would just

01:09:51 ◼   ► freak out at the idea that like I have

01:09:53 ◼   ► to sit in this little box when they tell

01:09:55 ◼   ► me to sit in the box and I can only take

01:09:56 ◼   ► breaks when they tell me it's time to

01:09:58 ◼   ► take breaks

01:09:59 ◼   ► I feel like now if I want to go to the

01:10:00 ◼   ► bathroom I'm gonna go to the bathroom

01:10:02 ◼   ► and I don't care what you guys are doing

01:10:03 ◼   ► I would make a terrible juror so no I

01:10:05 ◼   ► wouldn't I wouldn't want to be in the

01:10:06 ◼   ► box I would do and say anything to not

01:10:10 ◼   ► be on a jury so I don't think that

01:10:12 ◼   ► that's gonna happen anytime soon there

01:10:14 ◼   ► was a case in Scotland just recently

01:10:16 ◼   ► that I've just caught up on my screen I

01:10:17 ◼   ► was reading about it where it was a one

01:10:20 ◼   ► of those nightmare white-collar criminal

01:10:22 ◼   ► property fraud type trials and the jury

01:10:25 ◼   ► had to sit for 20 months for the case I

01:10:29 ◼   ► mean he might as well be in prison if

01:10:31 ◼   ► that's happening apparently they needed

01:10:32 ◼   ► like counselling and psychological

01:10:34 ◼   ► treatment afterwards to go back to the

01:10:36 ◼   ► real world and because of Scottish law

01:10:38 ◼   ► is really strict about the 12 jurors

01:10:39 ◼   ► thing and there were 12 of them if one

01:10:41 ◼   ► of them left or something the whole

01:10:43 ◼   ► trial would have collapsed so they all

01:10:44 ◼   ► had to like make sure they could see it

01:10:45 ◼   ► through so the trial didn't fall in a

01:10:47 ◼   ► hey this is why I don't want to be on

01:10:48 ◼   ► the jury I would forget it like screw

01:10:52 ◼   ► your trial I'm going home what happened

01:10:54 ◼   ► to those people do any of them have like

01:10:56 ◼   ► did they lose their jobs or like did

01:10:58 ◼   ► they just lose a bunch of money to their

01:11:00 ◼   ► employer I have to pay them all that

01:11:01 ◼   ► time sometimes big chunky a lot of 20

01:11:04 ◼   ► months yeah I know at least in the u.s.

01:11:06 ◼   ► you basically

01:11:06 ◼   ► screw it if you get on a jury there's

01:11:09 ◼   ► some amount of compensation that you get

01:11:10 ◼   ► that is insulting Lelo like here have a

01:11:13 ◼   ► dollar a day I feel like you know what

01:11:15 ◼   ► keep your goddamn dollar don't think

01:11:17 ◼   ► like you're paying me and we're even now

01:11:18 ◼   ► you take this dollar and you shove it up

01:11:21 ◼   ► your ass for me losing a day of my life

01:11:23 ◼   ► so your employer doesn't have to pay but

01:11:25 ◼   ► presumably they can't sack you like you

01:11:26 ◼   ► must be allowed to go back to your job I

01:11:28 ◼   ► hope all right yeah I don't know I don't

01:11:30 ◼   ► know how it works with the work like

01:11:31 ◼   ► that

01:11:31 ◼   ► I don't know but it doesn't sound fun

01:11:33 ◼   ► one last thing though that's again

01:11:37 ◼   ► watching the show just hammered into me

01:11:40 ◼   ► as thoroughly as an idea can be hammered

01:11:42 ◼   ► into a person even someone who is the

01:11:44 ◼   ► son of a lawyer is the idea of just like

01:11:46 ◼   ► the police are not your friends never

01:11:49 ◼   ► talk to the police hmm

01:11:51 ◼   ► ever for any reason it's like the world

01:11:55 ◼   ► shouldn't be this way but it it totally

01:11:59 ◼   ► is and it just makes me feel bad seeing

01:12:03 ◼   ► people get caught up in the idea that

01:12:05 ◼   ► like oh I'm just trying to help the

01:12:07 ◼   ► police because they need to clear me as

01:12:09 ◼   ► the boyfriend so they can move on and

01:12:10 ◼   ► find who the real killer is hmm what is

01:12:13 ◼   ► like that's not really the police's

01:12:15 ◼   ► motivation the police's motivation is to

01:12:17 ◼   ► close this case as fast as possible and

01:12:19 ◼   ► you're sitting right in front get the

01:12:20 ◼   ► clearance up on the board yeah exactly

01:12:22 ◼   ► like you are a file that's a stack of

01:12:26 ◼   ► files that needs to go away

01:12:27 ◼   ► and if I was ever pulled in to talk to

01:12:31 ◼   ► the police about anything it's like I

01:12:33 ◼   ► will say nothing unless my attorney is

01:12:34 ◼   ► here and be like oh we didn't want to

01:12:36 ◼   ► talk to you because the Queen was

01:12:37 ◼   ► assassinated and you were in the crowd

01:12:39 ◼   ► we have you on CCTV we know you didn't

01:12:42 ◼   ► do it we just want to know if you saw

01:12:44 ◼   ► anything that could help us I'd be like

01:12:45 ◼   ► I'm not saying a goddamn word until my

01:12:47 ◼   ► attorney is here I know how you people

01:12:48 ◼   ► work I wonder if it would be any

01:12:50 ◼   ► different than if someone like you

01:12:51 ◼   ► really loved hello had something had

01:12:53 ◼   ► happened to them whether or not you'd be

01:12:55 ◼   ► like more eager to help the police just

01:12:56 ◼   ► out of can't some kind of devotion to

01:12:59 ◼   ► obviously it's different if the person's

01:13:00 ◼   ► died but but say you know someone you

01:13:02 ◼   ► loved was kidnapped and you were

01:13:04 ◼   ► thinking well I've got to just do

01:13:06 ◼   ► everything I can to help the police to

01:13:07 ◼   ► you know get this person back or yeah I

01:13:10 ◼   ► mean I know kidnapping said not pretty

01:13:12 ◼   ► rare but kidnappings are rare but it

01:13:15 ◼   ► puts you in a really difficult position

01:13:16 ◼   ► as the only thing which I think it never

01:13:18 ◼   ► the details of a never

01:13:20 ◼   ► crossed my mind but watching this

01:13:22 ◼   ► documentary it also really solidified is

01:13:24 ◼   ► in every episode it's it's somebody who

01:13:27 ◼   ► has lost a very close loved one right

01:13:30 ◼   ► it's it's a girlfriend or its parents or

01:13:32 ◼   ► it's a child or it's a spouse and it

01:13:35 ◼   ► never really quite occurred to me how

01:13:37 ◼   ► horrible this situation is where it's

01:13:39 ◼   ► like okay you you have lost your wife

01:13:41 ◼   ► and then you're going to spend 16 hours

01:13:46 ◼   ► a day for the next three days being

01:13:49 ◼   ► interrogated by the police while you're

01:13:52 ◼   ► in the middle of the worst emotional

01:13:56 ◼   ► event of your entire life and I think I

01:14:01 ◼   ► just it had never really crossed me the

01:14:03 ◼   ► true horror of that like you're in a

01:14:06 ◼   ► daze but you also have these people who

01:14:09 ◼   ► are just asking you questions about

01:14:11 ◼   ► absolutely everything and you're

01:14:12 ◼   ► obviously the number one suspect of

01:14:14 ◼   ► what's going on it's like it's not bad

01:14:15 ◼   ► enough that you've lost a loved one but

01:14:18 ◼   ► you're also getting like bullied at the

01:14:21 ◼   ► same time that this is going on

01:14:23 ◼   ► obviously the police have to talk to the

01:14:25 ◼   ► people who are the most likely suspects

01:14:27 ◼   ► because when someone dies is like well

01:14:29 ◼   ► let's put that family up on the board

01:14:31 ◼   ► like it's probably one of these people

01:14:33 ◼   ► so I don't know how to resolve that but

01:14:36 ◼   ► it just seems inhumanly cruel to

01:14:40 ◼   ► immediately start questioning someone

01:14:43 ◼   ► when you find out like Oh their

01:14:46 ◼   ► girlfriend has died let's take them to

01:14:48 ◼   ► the station right now to do an interview

01:14:52 ◼   ► I can't imagine talking to anyone under

01:14:56 ◼   ► those circumstances so be like I'm sorry

01:14:58 ◼   ► I need to go curl up in a ball and just

01:15:01 ◼   ► cry for days for a while like you can

01:15:05 ◼   ► call me in a week and maybe I can put

01:15:07 ◼   ► together a coherent sentence like I

01:15:09 ◼   ► can't talk to police officers now it

01:15:11 ◼   ► just seems so cruel but you don't need

01:15:13 ◼   ► to obviously you know that you need to

01:15:14 ◼   ► try and sort out crimes as soon as

01:15:16 ◼   ► possible after they happen before

01:15:18 ◼   ► evidence vanishes but let's put that to

01:15:20 ◼   ► one side because it is it that is an

01:15:21 ◼   ► interesting conflict do you think that

01:15:24 ◼   ► you are being naive to think that you

01:15:28 ◼   ► can get a confession or someone to tell

01:15:30 ◼   ► the truth just with

01:15:32 ◼   ► logic or catching them out in a lie or

01:15:35 ◼   ► do you think like in a real world where

01:15:38 ◼   ► bad people do bad things and then lie

01:15:40 ◼   ► about them that you need to use some

01:15:43 ◼   ► Dark Arts to get to the truth sometimes

01:15:45 ◼   ► and it's unrealistic to expect this sort

01:15:49 ◼   ► of goody-two-shoes fair's fair approach

01:15:52 ◼   ► and when you're dealing with bad people

01:15:53 ◼   ► sometimes a bit of tricking them can get

01:15:55 ◼   ► you to the truth I think that the legal

01:16:00 ◼   ► system is so important that you can't

01:16:04 ◼   ► have it be the system that uses the dark

01:16:06 ◼   ► arts I mean that to me is like okay

01:16:08 ◼   ► professional jurors maybe there's a thin

01:16:10 ◼   ► end of a wedge here where the government

01:16:11 ◼   ► starts appointing the people who are

01:16:12 ◼   ► going to decide who is innocent and who

01:16:14 ◼   ► is not innocent but if you say like oh

01:16:17 ◼   ► the police can use tricks to try to

01:16:20 ◼   ► catch the bad guys I just can never get

01:16:23 ◼   ► behind that because I feel like it

01:16:27 ◼   ► sullies the entire system and also just

01:16:31 ◼   ► my own personal belief here that I just

01:16:32 ◼   ► don't I don't think those tricks are

01:16:35 ◼   ► meaningful because of my disregard of

01:16:39 ◼   ► human memory I don't think it's

01:16:40 ◼   ► meaningful I think it is too easy to get

01:16:43 ◼   ► people to talk about things that they

01:16:46 ◼   ► just remember very poorly even in

01:16:48 ◼   ► trivial ways that documentary that you

01:16:50 ◼   ► had may watch episode 3 I'm sure link to

01:16:52 ◼   ► if people want to watch this specific

01:16:53 ◼   ► one I watch that and obviously there was

01:16:56 ◼   ► no recording of the second day of the

01:16:58 ◼   ► questioning of this guy so I don't who

01:17:00 ◼   ► knows what happened but if we're just

01:17:01 ◼   ► going on what we saw in the documentary

01:17:04 ◼   ► I loved what I saw that policeman doing

01:17:08 ◼   ► was just kind of like building a rapport

01:17:11 ◼   ► even though he's faking and being

01:17:13 ◼   ► insincere and I can't believe the guy

01:17:14 ◼   ► didn't see through it like do you think

01:17:16 ◼   ► it's wrong for a policeman to try and

01:17:17 ◼   ► build a rapport with someone who they

01:17:19 ◼   ► thinks a suspect build up a level of

01:17:22 ◼   ► trust even though it's insincere in the

01:17:24 ◼   ► hope that you get to the truth I think

01:17:26 ◼   ► that's a that's a trickier question have

01:17:29 ◼   ► you happened to see also on Netflix

01:17:32 ◼   ► there's a series which they fixed

01:17:34 ◼   ► analyze series but it's called mine

01:17:35 ◼   ► hunter have you happened to watch I just

01:17:36 ◼   ► finished it last night

01:17:38 ◼   ► yeah so no spoilers for mine hunter for

01:17:41 ◼   ► the listeners but this is a mean plot

01:17:44 ◼   ► device in

01:17:46 ◼   ► Hunter is like building up insincere

01:17:47 ◼   ► rapport yeah criminals the big

01:17:49 ◼   ► difference there is I feel like in that

01:17:54 ◼   ► show the FBI agents are talking to

01:17:56 ◼   ► convicted criminals so I think there's a

01:17:58 ◼   ► big difference when you talk about

01:17:59 ◼   ► someone who has already been convicted

01:18:01 ◼   ► at that point like do you want to build

01:18:03 ◼   ► up a false rapport with them to get

01:18:04 ◼   ► information like whatever I don't have a

01:18:06 ◼   ► lot of problem with that but I do have

01:18:09 ◼   ► much more of a problem when you're

01:18:12 ◼   ► talking about someone who is presumed

01:18:14 ◼   ► innocent someone who is just a suspect

01:18:16 ◼   ► and yeah I have even more of a problem

01:18:20 ◼   ► with it when the rapport that you're

01:18:22 ◼   ► building is all pointing in a particular

01:18:26 ◼   ► direction so the police officer is

01:18:28 ◼   ► saying things like well we all get into

01:18:31 ◼   ► fights with the people we love the most

01:18:32 ◼   ► and he's like well I've never thought

01:18:34 ◼   ► about divorcing my wife but I sure have

01:18:36 ◼   ► thought about strangling her to death

01:18:38 ◼   ► you know what I mean and it's like

01:18:40 ◼   ► that's not building rapport that's how

01:18:44 ◼   ► you start planting ideas in the mind of

01:18:47 ◼   ► someone going through trauma it seems

01:18:50 ◼   ► like it's rapport building and if the

01:18:53 ◼   ► person was guilty maybe it would be

01:18:55 ◼   ► which is also partly why I selected that

01:18:58 ◼   ► episode because I feel like of all the

01:18:59 ◼   ► episodes that is maybe the most

01:19:00 ◼   ► ambiguous one hmm but it's like it's

01:19:03 ◼   ► rapport building but it's rapport

01:19:05 ◼   ► building that's pointing toward

01:19:07 ◼   ► something so that's why I can't go along

01:19:10 ◼   ► with it because it's also a person who

01:19:12 ◼   ► is presumed innocent I mean we discuss

01:19:14 ◼   ► this issue a bit I always feel like you

01:19:16 ◼   ► see it in very black-and-white terms I

01:19:18 ◼   ► don't feel like you sort of see some of

01:19:20 ◼   ► the shades of grey involved but in some

01:19:22 ◼   ► ways I think maybe you're right to be

01:19:25 ◼   ► that way when the stakes are so high and

01:19:26 ◼   ► it's important that a system retains so

01:19:30 ◼   ► much integrity so it's it's it's hard to

01:19:32 ◼   ► argue against you although I think in

01:19:34 ◼   ► practice like I feel like a lot of

01:19:36 ◼   ► crimes might go unsolved but I know

01:19:40 ◼   ► you're kind of you know I'd rather have

01:19:41 ◼   ► ten unsolved crimes than one falsely

01:19:43 ◼   ► imprisoned person but yeah I mean again

01:19:46 ◼   ► this is this is where the criminal

01:19:48 ◼   ► justice system to me is is the most

01:19:49 ◼   ► perfect example of this way I think

01:19:51 ◼   ► about a lot of things in society where

01:19:53 ◼   ► you can just there are outcomes you want

01:19:56 ◼   ► and there are dials that you can turn

01:19:59 ◼   ► on this big machine to try to get the

01:20:01 ◼   ► outcomes that you want but you don't

01:20:04 ◼   ► know exactly how far to turn all of

01:20:07 ◼   ► those dials you don't know where to

01:20:08 ◼   ► precisely tune them you can only have

01:20:12 ◼   ► answers about tuning too far in one

01:20:15 ◼   ► direction or tuning too far in the other

01:20:17 ◼   ► direction and so yeah I'm particularly

01:20:19 ◼   ► with criminal justice I'm always leaning

01:20:21 ◼   ► on the side of if we have to tune too

01:20:24 ◼   ► far in the direction of letting too many

01:20:26 ◼   ► people go that is a vastly preferable

01:20:28 ◼   ► option to convicting innocent people but

01:20:33 ◼   ► there are shades of gray here but I just

01:20:35 ◼   ► I I feel like I can't sign below the

01:20:39 ◼   ► document that says I'm okay with using

01:20:43 ◼   ► Dark Arts and tricks in the pursuit of

01:20:45 ◼   ► justice even if you have the most noble

01:20:49 ◼   ► of police officers behind that pursuit I

01:20:51 ◼   ► hope you don't use any of these

01:20:52 ◼   ► techniques on me when you lull me into

01:20:54 ◼   ► talking about SpaceX and a lot of us

01:20:57 ◼   ► could get myself into trouble but I'm

01:20:59 ◼   ► the interviewer here coming alive you're

01:21:01 ◼   ► the cop you're the cop I uh I could see

01:21:04 ◼   ► why you'd think that Brady tell me more

01:21:05 ◼   ► I'm just digging myself deeper and

01:21:08 ◼   ► deeper yeah can I have an inbox full of

01:21:10 ◼   ► Elon Musk fans now I'm making casual

01:21:13 ◼   ► comments about the commercial nature of

01:21:15 ◼   ► Tesla just unrelated to build rapport to

01:21:18 ◼   ► you baby listeners don't know that we

01:21:22 ◼   ► did discuss the commercial interests of

01:21:25 ◼   ► the world for 20 minutes before we

01:21:26 ◼   ► started recording coz I was trying to

01:21:28 ◼   ► Prime I did like that Falcon heavy stuff

01:21:32 ◼   ► you know I know I know I thought it was

01:21:33 ◼   ► ghosts don't worry the people no hello

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01:23:53 ◼   ► show let's talk about hotmail for sir ok

01:23:59 ◼   ► let's talk about a hotmail okay I

01:24:01 ◼   ► actually have a lot of thoughts about

01:24:02 ◼   ► hotmail ok I know I thought you might I

01:24:04 ◼   ► thought you might so there was a story

01:24:08 ◼   ► going around the other day about

01:24:09 ◼   ► insurance companies and profiling they

01:24:12 ◼   ► were using to set people's insurance

01:24:14 ◼   ► rates and I think the original story was

01:24:16 ◼   ► if people had a name that sounded though

01:24:18 ◼   ► of a certain ethnicity they were having

01:24:20 ◼   ► higher insurance rates set and that was

01:24:23 ◼   ► obviously considered quite unfair and by

01:24:25 ◼   ► most people but

01:24:26 ◼   ► in the second day as the story rolled on

01:24:28 ◼   ► it emerged that insurance companies were

01:24:31 ◼   ► setting higher rates for people who were

01:24:33 ◼   ► using hot mail addresses than other

01:24:35 ◼   ► words they thought if you use hotmail

01:24:39 ◼   ► you're obviously a greater insurance

01:24:40 ◼   ► risk and you would have to pay higher

01:24:42 ◼   ► premiums to insure you like car

01:24:44 ◼   ► insurance or is just like an insurance

01:24:46 ◼   ► company in general if it's car insurance

01:24:48 ◼   ► I have a theory about this think it was

01:24:50 ◼   ► car insurance in the story I read what

01:24:53 ◼   ► do you think about that profiling by a

01:24:55 ◼   ► choice of email sex this is kind of

01:24:58 ◼   ► delightful because I think these stories

01:25:00 ◼   ► come up with insurance okay isn't it

01:25:04 ◼   ► this might be the most boring thing to

01:25:06 ◼   ► ever say but I think it is fascinating

01:25:09 ◼   ► the constraints that we want to put on

01:25:13 ◼   ► insurance companies versus their

01:25:16 ◼   ► actuarial knowledge of the world right

01:25:19 ◼   ► so if anybody has accurate actuarial

01:25:23 ◼   ► knowledge of the world it is insurance

01:25:27 ◼   ► companies they will know correlations

01:25:30 ◼   ► and expenses that is their their whole

01:25:32 ◼   ► job but then there is this intersection

01:25:36 ◼   ► where insurance companies run into the

01:25:38 ◼   ► real world where we say like oh no no oh

01:25:40 ◼   ► no no insurance company this correlation

01:25:43 ◼   ► is not okay you can't use this and I

01:25:48 ◼   ► feel like insurance companies are just

01:25:50 ◼   ► at this this real intersection of these

01:25:53 ◼   ► two things where's like they can know

01:25:55 ◼   ► things but we forced them to pretend

01:25:58 ◼   ► like they don't know things well I

01:26:00 ◼   ► thought was it will get to a point where

01:26:02 ◼   ► they're no longer like sharing risks

01:26:03 ◼   ► right well yeah if they become old

01:26:05 ◼   ► knowing insurance ceases to be insurance

01:26:07 ◼   ► it just becomes paying first yeah but

01:26:09 ◼   ► that's exactly like that is the super

01:26:10 ◼   ► fascinating thing right because the only

01:26:13 ◼   ► reason insurance exists is because they

01:26:15 ◼   ► don't know everything but as their

01:26:18 ◼   ► knowledge increases you are 100% right

01:26:22 ◼   ► that the insurance company just trends

01:26:25 ◼   ► toward the cost of the thing right and

01:26:27 ◼   ► then it's like wait there's no business

01:26:28 ◼   ► here at all right so is like insurance

01:26:31 ◼   ► companies can only exist in a world that

01:26:32 ◼   ► has some amount of in certainty and then

01:26:35 ◼   ► we want to enforce uncertainty on them

01:26:39 ◼   ► as well

01:26:40 ◼   ► like the hotmail thing my total guests

01:26:42 ◼   ► here for car insurance is that I'd be

01:26:44 ◼   ► willing to bet that hotmail users trend

01:26:46 ◼   ► much older on average than the general

01:26:50 ◼   ► population and I'm gonna say that much

01:26:53 ◼   ► older people are going to have higher

01:26:55 ◼   ► rates of car accidents than the general

01:26:57 ◼   ► that's not true I think older people get

01:26:59 ◼   ► cheaper car insurance I think it's young

01:27:02 ◼   ► 21 year old males that are most likely

01:27:04 ◼   ► to wrap their car around a tree and that

01:27:07 ◼   ► to me is the prime example of do you

01:27:09 ◼   ► allow an insurance company to do this is

01:27:11 ◼   ► the teenage boy driving a car if a car

01:27:14 ◼   ► is going to be destroyed a teenage boy

01:27:16 ◼   ► is going to do it and this is legal or

01:27:19 ◼   ► not legal in various jurisdictions to

01:27:21 ◼   ► say something like can you charge a

01:27:23 ◼   ► teenage boy higher car insurance and

01:27:27 ◼   ► some places say yes some places say no I

01:27:30 ◼   ► was just suspecting that you would also

01:27:32 ◼   ► have a higher incidence of accident for

01:27:35 ◼   ► older drivers I'm at least thinking of

01:27:39 ◼   ► places in America where I'm always

01:27:40 ◼   ► horrified by people who are like wildly

01:27:44 ◼   ► unqualified to be drivers who still have

01:27:46 ◼   ► driver's licenses that is just my theory

01:27:49 ◼   ► like what might hotmail be correlated

01:27:51 ◼   ► with I mean you probably are right

01:27:53 ◼   ► because you usually are but that

01:27:54 ◼   ► wouldn't have been my guess I hadn't

01:27:55 ◼   ► thought of hotmail users as being older

01:27:57 ◼   ► I can see why you would say that but I

01:27:59 ◼   ► thought it would be more the case that

01:28:01 ◼   ► they were figuring hotmail users were

01:28:03 ◼   ► less professional and therefore maybe

01:28:07 ◼   ► less likely to be very responsible big

01:28:11 ◼   ► yeah or just like you know anyone who's

01:28:13 ◼   ► using hotmail has obviously made poor

01:28:15 ◼   ► decisions in their life so they're going

01:28:17 ◼   ► to make poor decisions on the road could

01:28:18 ◼   ► also just be yes I had it since you're a

01:28:26 ◼   ► boy great yeah no so I've just kept it

01:28:28 ◼   ► so I do have my hotmail account I do

01:28:30 ◼   ► have other I do have numerous other no

01:28:33 ◼   ► of course you do but don't use that when

01:28:34 ◼   ► you're applying for your insurance right

01:28:36 ◼   ► that's that's what you don't want to do

01:28:37 ◼   ► this is another dial of society that I

01:28:40 ◼   ► don't really know how to adjust because

01:28:42 ◼   ► in in general I feel like I'm okay with

01:28:44 ◼   ► insurance companies charging different

01:28:45 ◼   ► rates to different people but there

01:28:49 ◼   ► would come a point where it's simply not

01:28:51 ◼   ► insurance anymore if you just know too

01:28:53 ◼   ► much about

01:28:54 ◼   ► everybody so that like there's going to

01:28:56 ◼   ► need to be something like that but I

01:28:57 ◼   ► think the hotmail thing is funny and I

01:29:00 ◼   ► personally don't have any problem with

01:29:02 ◼   ► it whatsoever I don't know how people

01:29:05 ◼   ► would react to this but I suspect that

01:29:06 ◼   ► there are going to be vastly more and

01:29:09 ◼   ► more things like this that come to light

01:29:12 ◼   ► through big data analysis and through

01:29:14 ◼   ► through this kind of thing where some of

01:29:18 ◼   ► my favorite examples of this are

01:29:19 ◼   ► innocuous questions you can ask people

01:29:23 ◼   ► that will very rapidly zero in on things

01:29:28 ◼   ► like who do they vote for in the last

01:29:30 ◼   ► election and so you ask people questions

01:29:32 ◼   ► like do you like dogs better than cats

01:29:35 ◼   ► and questions like that that seem like

01:29:38 ◼   ► they have nothing to do with anything

01:29:39 ◼   ► and if you are picking really well

01:29:43 ◼   ► chosen questions that have been

01:29:45 ◼   ► developed from enormous databases of

01:29:48 ◼   ► people's preferences you can

01:29:51 ◼   ► surprisingly quickly zero in with a very

01:29:54 ◼   ► high confidence interval on what did a

01:29:57 ◼   ► person vote for in the previous election

01:29:58 ◼   ► or all these kinds of things where again

01:30:00 ◼   ► like people imagine that they are vastly

01:30:03 ◼   ► different from other people but then

01:30:04 ◼   ► they're not like there are patterns that

01:30:06 ◼   ► exist here

01:30:06 ◼   ► you know how they traditionally have

01:30:08 ◼   ► some problems with political polling

01:30:09 ◼   ► because people aren't always honest

01:30:12 ◼   ► about who they vote for do you think it

01:30:13 ◼   ► will ever get to a stage where those

01:30:15 ◼   ► companies will ring people up and say do

01:30:18 ◼   ► you like dogs do you like hamburgers

01:30:20 ◼   ► where do you go on holiday and not even

01:30:22 ◼   ► ask you who you voted for and say thank

01:30:24 ◼   ► you very much and say okay Democrat

01:30:26 ◼   ► voter well I wonder if it'll ever get to

01:30:28 ◼   ► that point where they just don't trust

01:30:29 ◼   ► your answer to who do you vote for and

01:30:31 ◼   ► they use the other stuff to get to the

01:30:33 ◼   ► truth instead I haven't seen something

01:30:35 ◼   ► like that I have some come across some

01:30:37 ◼   ► research which does things like using

01:30:40 ◼   ► similar methods to estimate voter

01:30:44 ◼   ► dishonesty right where you are looking

01:30:48 ◼   ► at some information that you can gather

01:30:49 ◼   ► about a person and then looking at their

01:30:51 ◼   ► actual response and you can't know

01:30:55 ◼   ► obviously perfectly but you can put

01:30:58 ◼   ► higher or lower confidence intervals on

01:31:00 ◼   ► was this person reporting the truth and

01:31:04 ◼   ► it becomes very quickly very unlikely or

01:31:07 ◼   ► very likely if you can gather enough

01:31:10 ◼   ► information on this kind of thing so I

01:31:12 ◼   ► do kind of think that that's the case I

01:31:14 ◼   ► mean again this is this is much more an

01:31:16 ◼   ► issue in the United States where you

01:31:18 ◼   ► have to motivate people to go vote but

01:31:22 ◼   ► this is this is a real science now of

01:31:24 ◼   ► trying to drill down to very very

01:31:28 ◼   ► particular individual people and knowing

01:31:30 ◼   ► like when do you want to send them stuff

01:31:32 ◼   ► in the mail to try to motivate them to

01:31:34 ◼   ► vote and you can do that because you're

01:31:37 ◼   ► highly confident about who they will

01:31:40 ◼   ► vote for with the information that

01:31:42 ◼   ► you're sending so I think that is kind

01:31:44 ◼   ► of a thing already but either way I

01:31:46 ◼   ► think insurance companies are gonna be

01:31:48 ◼   ► at the forefront of this because they

01:31:49 ◼   ► they are the ones who are at the

01:31:52 ◼   ► bleeding edge of being able to extract

01:31:55 ◼   ► value from knowing more and more about

01:31:59 ◼   ► what data represents about a person's

01:32:02 ◼   ► actions in the world

01:32:02 ◼   ► actions in the world

00:00:00 ◼   ► I like this podcast it's pretty cool and

00:00:03 ◼   ► if you're someone who met someone who

00:00:06 ◼   ► knows Brady I can confirm this podcast

00:00:09 ◼   ► is legit

00:00:10 ◼   ► Brady and gray have influenced

00:00:12 ◼   ► real-world events such as the New

00:00:14 ◼   ► Zealand flag referendum and a poll on

00:00:16 ◼   ► some radio website or something about

00:00:18 ◼   ► top audio personalities so rest assured

00:00:21 ◼   ► reader this podcast is legit five stars

00:00:27 ◼   ► we've been getting a lot of reviews

00:00:29 ◼   ► Brady what was that you've met someone

00:00:32 ◼   ► who knows someone who I don't even get

00:00:34 ◼   ► that that was your call Brady you wanted

00:00:37 ◼   ► like acquaintances that your wife was

00:00:40 ◼   ► talking to when hello internet was

00:00:42 ◼   ► mentioned in reference to you you wanted

00:00:44 ◼   ► that person when they went to go look up

00:00:46 ◼   ► the reviews on iTunes to see that the

00:00:48 ◼   ► podcast was a big deal I've be crated

00:00:51 ◼   ► back to myself this is the danger of

00:00:53 ◼   ► this podcast sometimes when I make

00:00:54 ◼   ► people oh this and they'll say some line

00:00:56 ◼   ► at me like and I'll be like what are you

00:00:58 ◼   ► talking about but you said that the

00:01:01 ◼   ► things I say on the show you're missing

00:01:03 ◼   ► out on your own in jokes I say a lot of

00:01:05 ◼   ► rubbish I can't remember all of it you

00:01:07 ◼   ► asked for something Brady and to quote

00:01:10 ◼   ► Henry is cool one on iTunes yep five

00:01:14 ◼   ► stars for Brady so he looks more popular

00:01:16 ◼   ► five stars

00:01:17 ◼   ► I appreciate the five stars yeah we have

00:01:20 ◼   ► a ton of reviews they're very fun to

00:01:22 ◼   ► read through and there was a very

00:01:24 ◼   ► consistent theme through all of them

00:01:26 ◼   ► have a hello internet reviewed numbers

00:01:28 ◼   ► going like up high enough you know has

00:01:30 ◼   ► there been a noticeable bump well I mean

00:01:32 ◼   ► Brady we're trying to quench your thirst

00:01:35 ◼   ► for recognition we're trying to feed

00:01:38 ◼   ► your Hannity here I guess the question

00:01:40 ◼   ► really it's not for me to answer if the

00:01:44 ◼   ► reviews are enough I don't know if there

00:01:46 ◼   ► is any number of reviews that will be

00:01:49 ◼   ► enough for you look great I will go

00:01:53 ◼   ► along with being stitched up like this

00:01:54 ◼   ► and you know because I deserve oh yes

00:01:56 ◼   ► yes dude stuff I'm pulling this just out

00:01:58 ◼   ► of the air I'm making up things but if

00:02:04 ◼   ► they put it in the right context like I

00:02:06 ◼   ► didn't know the number right I don't

00:02:08 ◼   ► know the number now it occurred to me

00:02:11 ◼   ► that if anyone ever goes

00:02:13 ◼   ► and looks checks will we look like we

00:02:17 ◼   ► know what we're doing right without even

00:02:19 ◼   ► having looked myself I just said if you

00:02:20 ◼   ► haven't left a review go and do it

00:02:23 ◼   ► because it'll look good for us like I'm

00:02:25 ◼   ► not there like sitting there watching a

00:02:27 ◼   ► counter and like keeping a notebook of

00:02:29 ◼   ► the scores and ringing people up and

00:02:31 ◼   ► saying have you looked at my reviews

00:02:32 ◼   ► right it just occurred to me right not

00:02:34 ◼   ► like the Radio Times contest right where

00:02:36 ◼   ► that was occurring right no this is

00:02:38 ◼   ► totally different that kind of got a bit

00:02:40 ◼   ► out of control but I don't think that

00:02:41 ◼   ► was my fault either that was a perfect

00:02:43 ◼   ► storm that was nobody's fault I mean you

00:02:45 ◼   ► can say what you want Brady

00:02:46 ◼   ► but according to Raven ho 27 Brady's

00:02:50 ◼   ► vanity knows no bounds five stars

00:02:53 ◼   ► I'm just telling you what I'm reading

00:02:55 ◼   ► here in black and white so when we were

00:02:57 ◼   ► having the discussion last time there

00:02:58 ◼   ► was a thing which I did not realize

00:03:00 ◼   ► which is that iTunes does the counting

00:03:04 ◼   ► of reviews separately for every country

00:03:07 ◼   ► or I feel like that's a bit of a strange

00:03:10 ◼   ► decision to make I don't quite

00:03:13 ◼   ► understand why iTunes would say that Oh

00:03:15 ◼   ► UK reviews are going to be in a

00:03:17 ◼   ► different group than us reviews I don't

00:03:19 ◼   ► quite understand that they do that

00:03:21 ◼   ► across the whole platform great cuz when

00:03:22 ◼   ► I go and look at what the top podcasts

00:03:24 ◼   ► are it's always like 95,000 BBC podcasts

00:03:28 ◼   ► which I'll come to in another episode

00:03:29 ◼   ► sometime because I have thoughts about

00:03:30 ◼   ► that and then there's like a couple of

00:03:32 ◼   ► American ones and then that's it it's

00:03:34 ◼   ► like does anyone else in the world make

00:03:36 ◼   ► podcasts other than the baby say whereas

00:03:38 ◼   ► I'm sure in America it's not completely

00:03:40 ◼   ► dominated by the baby season I can get

00:03:43 ◼   ► behind the idea of regional

00:03:45 ◼   ► recommendations waiting a bit of white

00:03:48 ◼   ► yeah a bit of waiting so when we were

00:03:49 ◼   ► talking about having whatever it was

00:03:51 ◼   ► like 600 views I think we were both

00:03:53 ◼   ► looking at the iTunes U K store and so

00:03:57 ◼   ► we're now closing in on like 1,100 of

00:04:00 ◼   ► views on the U case or the US store

00:04:03 ◼   ► though as you might imagine that's where

00:04:06 ◼   ► the big explosion occurred because it

00:04:08 ◼   ► seems like most of our listeners are in

00:04:09 ◼   ► America or at least the plurality of

00:04:12 ◼   ► listeners are in America and we went

00:04:14 ◼   ► from something like I think it was

00:04:15 ◼   ► somewhere like 2000 reviews to 4333

00:04:21 ◼   ► reviews on the US store I feel like

00:04:23 ◼   ► that's quite a bump it's such a bump

00:04:25 ◼   ► that

00:04:26 ◼   ► while I am making fun of you for your

00:04:28 ◼   ► vanity that bump makes it feel like

00:04:31 ◼   ► 10,000 is within our grasp like it's a

00:04:33 ◼   ► thing that is possible

00:04:35 ◼   ► Harry's : for the numbers now hey I'm

00:04:37 ◼   ► just saying look before it never really

00:04:40 ◼   ► crossed my mind but now it's like oh I

00:04:43 ◼   ► can see it on the horizon it's not close

00:04:46 ◼   ► but it's within our grasp Brady so I'm

00:04:50 ◼   ► looking at this 4,000 number and I am

00:04:52 ◼   ► finding myself thinking this needs to

00:04:54 ◼   ► get to 10,000 I said 10,000 as a joke

00:04:57 ◼   ► but it's a joke that has lodged itself

00:04:59 ◼   ► in my mind so I can see that like we're

00:05:02 ◼   ► close there we're close I would be

00:05:03 ◼   ► willing to bet if you summed up all of

00:05:07 ◼   ► the different country stores we actually

00:05:10 ◼   ► probably do have 10,000 are pretty close

00:05:12 ◼   ► to 10,000 but I feel like that doesn't

00:05:14 ◼   ► count if your wife's friends

00:05:17 ◼   ► acquaintances are looking up the show

00:05:18 ◼   ► they're not going to sum it up that's

00:05:20 ◼   ► not how that works I would love to see

00:05:22 ◼   ► it actually hit 10,000 on at least one

00:05:24 ◼   ► of the stores probably the US store I

00:05:26 ◼   ► feel like right if we can get to 10,000

00:05:28 ◼   ► in the UK it'll be like we've cracked

00:05:29 ◼   ► America that's like every overseas

00:05:31 ◼   ► entertainers dream isn't it you know

00:05:33 ◼   ► yeah sure we've done well here in the

00:05:35 ◼   ► colonies in that but if we can crack

00:05:37 ◼   ► America we can make it anywhere

00:05:40 ◼   ► meanwhile we have eight reviews in the

00:05:42 ◼   ► de poele store

00:05:43 ◼   ► I'll take her I'll take the I hope we're

00:05:44 ◼   ► doing well in the pollen I hope you have

00:05:45 ◼   ► a high five star rating over there I was

00:05:47 ◼   ► making that up I haven't like set up a

00:05:49 ◼   ► VPN hidden the poll to see what I mean

00:05:52 ◼   ► great lady you can on iTunes you can

00:05:54 ◼   ► scroll down to the very bottom and click

00:05:55 ◼   ► the little flag and then you can switch

00:05:57 ◼   ► to a different country to try to see how

00:05:58 ◼   ► you're doing in different spots all

00:06:00 ◼   ► right but anyway so yes I have found it

00:06:02 ◼   ► interesting the reviews make me laugh

00:06:04 ◼   ► people are always funny on the internet

00:06:05 ◼   ► but aside from the reviews mocking your

00:06:08 ◼   ► vanity there was also a very consistent

00:06:10 ◼   ► theme which is people saying like I love

00:06:13 ◼   ► this podcast but it's really hard to

00:06:15 ◼   ► describe why I have no ability to

00:06:18 ◼   ► describe why I like the show and why I

00:06:20 ◼   ► listen to it but I really like it five

00:06:22 ◼   ► stars so I enjoyed those as well I

00:06:24 ◼   ► sympathize with you people because I

00:06:26 ◼   ► have the same problem every time I tell

00:06:28 ◼   ► someone I'd do a podcast oh I do a

00:06:30 ◼   ► podcast oh what's a code and then I've

00:06:32 ◼   ► got a let's say hello internet which I'm

00:06:34 ◼   ► a bit embarrassed about and they like

00:06:35 ◼   ► are really oh what's that about and then

00:06:38 ◼   ► I'm like

00:06:39 ◼   ► it's kind of like nerdy stuff and flags

00:06:43 ◼   ► I feel like we've lured a lot of like

00:06:45 ◼   ► vexillology people in under false

00:06:47 ◼   ► pretenses and we haven't been delivering

00:06:49 ◼   ► lately I think we need a flag bonanza

00:06:52 ◼   ► sometime soon I'll see what we can do

00:06:54 ◼   ► there but in the meantime I couldn't

00:06:57 ◼   ► help but check and just load it up in

00:06:58 ◼   ► Nepal store yeah all right what are we

00:07:03 ◼   ► on let me guess

00:07:04 ◼   ► I'm gonna go with two you are exactly

00:07:09 ◼   ► right two reviews in the fall but the

00:07:15 ◼   ► store is listing us as not having

00:07:17 ◼   ► received enough ratings to display an

00:07:19 ◼   ► average for this podcast so get on it

00:07:21 ◼   ► Nepalese did they write anything one

00:07:24 ◼   ► review is from Nepal and then they put

00:07:27 ◼   ► the Nepal flag emoji

00:07:28 ◼   ► which I feel like is his on point not

00:07:30 ◼   ► realizing that their review would only

00:07:32 ◼   ► be displayed in Nepal Nepal we need to

00:07:35 ◼   ► let's aim for a target in Nepal of eight

00:07:38 ◼   ► thousand eight hundred years because

00:07:40 ◼   ► there's the high of Mount Everest in

00:07:42 ◼   ► meters I can't any think we're gonna get

00:07:43 ◼   ► past 29,000 which would be in fate for

00:07:45 ◼   ► it now Freddie that's that's insanity

00:07:47 ◼   ► don't ask for unreasonable goals don't

00:07:49 ◼   ► do that

00:07:50 ◼   ► just the reasonable goals the reason

00:07:51 ◼   ► we're goals on the horizon so close the

00:07:57 ◼   ► last time Brady we were discussing the

00:07:59 ◼   ► airline safety videos and since that

00:08:02 ◼   ► episode went up I discovered that it is

00:08:04 ◼   ► still Comic Relief season in British

00:08:08 ◼   ► Airways comic relief meaning they're

00:08:10 ◼   ► taking a break from anything funny I got

00:08:12 ◼   ► to see the video twice the space of like

00:08:14 ◼   ► eight hours because I ended up flying

00:08:16 ◼   ► out to the continent and back on the

00:08:19 ◼   ► same day and I was like oh my god I

00:08:20 ◼   ► can't believe I can't believe this like

00:08:21 ◼   ► Here I am

00:08:22 ◼   ► and as I oh god it's so awful I took a

00:08:25 ◼   ► little video I put up on Twitter Comic

00:08:27 ◼   ► Relief season maybe it never ends well

00:08:29 ◼   ► it's not even Comic Relief year this

00:08:31 ◼   ► year so they're clearly not bounded by

00:08:32 ◼   ► any season here they're just going for I

00:08:35 ◼   ► really resent that video as like the

00:08:37 ◼   ► kids and watching it anymore but anyway

00:08:39 ◼   ► the biggest universal piece of feedback

00:08:41 ◼   ► that I received from people is hey why

00:08:44 ◼   ► are you watching this anyway why don't

00:08:45 ◼   ► you just put on your headphones like a

00:08:46 ◼   ► normal person and not not paying

00:08:48 ◼   ► attention to this hmm you know what

00:08:50 ◼   ► that's an excellent point this is

00:08:52 ◼   ► one of these moments where I realized

00:08:55 ◼   ► that there is something that I have not

00:08:56 ◼   ► really weighted in my life which is as I

00:09:01 ◼   ► have mentioned on the show my mom was a

00:09:03 ◼   ► flight attendant for many many many

00:09:04 ◼   ► years and like because of that I always

00:09:08 ◼   ► felt like when the flight attendants are

00:09:11 ◼   ► doing the safety demonstration you

00:09:14 ◼   ► should pay attention because it's rude

00:09:16 ◼   ► not to pay attention I also feel like I

00:09:19 ◼   ► something I could be told off for like

00:09:20 ◼   ► because being at airports and Airlines

00:09:22 ◼   ► is always a time of like we've talked

00:09:24 ◼   ► about before you're like hyper

00:09:25 ◼   ► conscientious mmm you answer all the

00:09:28 ◼   ► questions you know how have you did you

00:09:29 ◼   ► pack any scissors no I didn't you were

00:09:31 ◼   ► very deliberate yeah and I feel like if

00:09:33 ◼   ► I don't watch the safety video I'm doing

00:09:35 ◼   ► something wrong and they could like

00:09:36 ◼   ► throw me off the plane or or worse yet

00:09:38 ◼   ► tell me off in front of other people hmm

00:09:40 ◼   ► so I feel like I kind of deliberately

00:09:43 ◼   ► would take off my headphones and watch

00:09:44 ◼   ► the video just to be like bit of a goody

00:09:46 ◼   ► two-shoes and show you the it fly

00:09:47 ◼   ► attendants that yes I'm doing what I'm

00:09:49 ◼   ► supposed to do I'm a good person yeah

00:09:51 ◼   ► there is definitely a part of that

00:09:52 ◼   ► there's like such a different mindset

00:09:54 ◼   ► when you're at airports and when you're

00:09:56 ◼   ► flying it's like you're a different

00:09:57 ◼   ► person

00:09:57 ◼   ► any other there is a deliberateness and

00:10:01 ◼   ► showing that like I'm a person who's

00:10:03 ◼   ► paying attention yeah you want to be

00:10:05 ◼   ► sane to do the right thing right I'm in

00:10:07 ◼   ► the exit row and I'm not a person that

00:10:09 ◼   ► you have to worry about flight attendant

00:10:11 ◼   ► I'm a reasonable person I'm not gonna

00:10:12 ◼   ► cause any problems here I also realized

00:10:15 ◼   ► that a transfer had happened in my mind

00:10:18 ◼   ► that when I was a kid and growing up and

00:10:21 ◼   ► if I was on an airplane with my parents

00:10:23 ◼   ► you know my mom would like we take out

00:10:25 ◼   ► the safety card and she look we know

00:10:27 ◼   ► let's look at where the exits are let's

00:10:28 ◼   ► make sure you recognize visually where

00:10:29 ◼   ► the exits are because as she used to

00:10:32 ◼   ► always say if you like if this plane is

00:10:33 ◼   ► going down my son is going to survive

00:10:36 ◼   ► right he's gonna know where the exits

00:10:38 ◼   ► are he's gonna get out of this and it's

00:10:40 ◼   ► like okay yeah now if the planes going

00:10:41 ◼   ► down I'm gonna make sure I'm not one of

00:10:43 ◼   ► the people who dies on this plane and

00:10:44 ◼   ► then that's also just paying attention

00:10:46 ◼   ► to the flight attendants during the

00:10:47 ◼   ► safety demonstration but they were

00:10:50 ◼   ► always people when I was a kid and I

00:10:55 ◼   ► never really thought about it but there

00:10:57 ◼   ► has been this very slow very gradual

00:11:00 ◼   ► transition over time too

00:11:03 ◼   ► the frequency of getting a safety

00:11:05 ◼   ► demonstration from an actual human going

00:11:07 ◼   ► down and the probability of watching a

00:11:09 ◼   ► video going up even on relatively small

00:11:13 ◼   ► planes where it's been the longer

00:11:15 ◼   ► holdout that there's a person doing the

00:11:17 ◼   ► safety demonstration even on the smaller

00:11:19 ◼   ► planes now it's very very likely that

00:11:20 ◼   ► you're going to be watching an actual

00:11:22 ◼   ► video and somehow this transition

00:11:24 ◼   ► happened so slowly and gradually that I

00:11:28 ◼   ► feel like the respect that I felt I

00:11:30 ◼   ► needed to accord a human being

00:11:32 ◼   ► transferred to the machine that's just

00:11:35 ◼   ► showing me this stupid comedy video

00:11:38 ◼   ► that's why the safety videos have

00:11:40 ◼   ► bothered me is because I've always felt

00:11:41 ◼   ► like I need to watch this out of some

00:11:43 ◼   ► kind of respect but I don't think I do

00:11:45 ◼   ► anymore

00:11:46 ◼   ► especially not if they're going to be

00:11:48 ◼   ► propagandizing me with ten thousand

00:11:50 ◼   ► viewings of the same unfunny thing I

00:11:52 ◼   ► feel like you know what safety video

00:11:53 ◼   ► that doesn't have specifics about this

00:11:55 ◼   ► airplane anyway I don't need to watch

00:11:57 ◼   ► you I don't need to pay attention and I

00:11:59 ◼   ► think if the flight attendant is just

00:12:01 ◼   ► going to think worse of me because I put

00:12:03 ◼   ► my headphones on when I don't want to

00:12:05 ◼   ► watch the safety video I think I'm just

00:12:06 ◼   ► gonna eat that in terms of social

00:12:08 ◼   ► respectability I think that's that's

00:12:10 ◼   ► what's gonna happen going forward that

00:12:12 ◼   ► observation you makes interesting though

00:12:13 ◼   ► isn't it because even when they show

00:12:16 ◼   ► safety videos now on most of the planes

00:12:18 ◼   ► I've been on the flight attendants will

00:12:20 ◼   ► still sort of stand in the corridor and

00:12:22 ◼   ► they might wave their arms once or twice

00:12:24 ◼   ► in the general direction of an excerpt

00:12:26 ◼   ► but they always seem to be sort of

00:12:27 ◼   ► standing there unnecessarily

00:12:29 ◼   ► maybe that's why they're standing there

00:12:31 ◼   ► because they're tapping into that old

00:12:33 ◼   ► emotion that if someone's standing there

00:12:35 ◼   ► like if they're making the effort you

00:12:37 ◼   ► have to make the effort and if they just

00:12:38 ◼   ► went about their business and made

00:12:40 ◼   ► coffee and sat down and you know checked

00:12:43 ◼   ► their hair in the mirror you wouldn't

00:12:44 ◼   ► watch the video but because they are

00:12:46 ◼   ► standing there and they're making the

00:12:47 ◼   ► effort you make the effort

00:12:49 ◼   ► it's probably like a rule I bet that

00:12:51 ◼   ► they do have to stand there even then

00:12:53 ◼   ► the number of things that the flight

00:12:54 ◼   ► attendants are actually doing has

00:12:56 ◼   ► dramatically decreased oh yeah or maybe

00:12:59 ◼   ► the one of their jobs is to make sure

00:13:00 ◼   ► people are watching and that's a good

00:13:01 ◼   ► place to do it from that's why they

00:13:03 ◼   ► stand there they must have to stand

00:13:04 ◼   ► there for a reason I mean the reason is

00:13:06 ◼   ► not to tell off people with headphones

00:13:07 ◼   ► on because they certainly don't then I'm

00:13:10 ◼   ► the only sucker sitting there watching

00:13:12 ◼   ► the safety video and thinking how God

00:13:14 ◼   ► not again don't make me watch the joke

00:13:16 ◼   ► about the sea

00:13:17 ◼   ► belt one more time they don't tell you

00:13:19 ◼   ► off if you're wearing your headphones so

00:13:20 ◼   ► I don't know what you're listening to

00:13:21 ◼   ► you could be listening to that too yes

00:13:23 ◼   ► I'm sure that's what I'm doing as I'm

00:13:25 ◼   ► looking at my iPad with my headphones on

00:13:27 ◼   ► and clearly writing stuff on the screen

00:13:30 ◼   ► oh yes I'm I'm making notes on the

00:13:32 ◼   ► safety video that's that's what I'm

00:13:33 ◼   ► doing right now I'm certainly not doing

00:13:35 ◼   ► my crash notes I do just want to be

00:13:40 ◼   ► clear though that even though I am going

00:13:42 ◼   ► to pay less attention to the safety

00:13:43 ◼   ► videos in the future I reserve the right

00:13:45 ◼   ► to complain about safety videos in the

00:13:46 ◼   ► future oh yeah reserving the right to

00:13:49 ◼   ► complain is like the hello Internet my

00:13:53 ◼   ► motto yeah this is the hello Internet

00:13:55 ◼   ► subtitle well it sounds like it's time

00:13:57 ◼   ► to talk about spy sex then hello

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00:14:54 ◼   ► trying to do it yourself that's the kind

00:14:56 ◼   ► of task that I just hate it's fiddly and

00:14:59 ◼   ► important yet somehow I can't quite get

00:15:02 ◼   ► my brain to focus on it fully

00:15:04 ◼   ► I'm sure if you send out invoices you

00:15:06 ◼   ► know that feeling like it's the most

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00:15:30 ◼   ► to FreshBooks calm /hello and enter

00:15:33 ◼   ► hello in the how did you hear about a

00:15:35 ◼   ► section that's fresh books calm slash

00:15:38 ◼   ► hello and enter hello in the how did you

00:15:41 ◼   ► hear about a section thanks to fresh

00:15:43 ◼   ► books for supporting the show and for

00:15:45 ◼   ► saving freelancers so much time I'm so

00:15:49 ◼   ► not looking forward to this

00:15:50 ◼   ► why not breathing because although I

00:15:53 ◼   ► will battle on and will not cave to the

00:15:56 ◼   ► cheer pressure mm-hmm I know I'm gonna

00:15:58 ◼   ► get okay you know you're waiting in to a

00:16:00 ◼   ► forest of to your pressure I know how

00:16:02 ◼   ► people feel about SpaceX and they're

00:16:03 ◼   ► starting to not like if I say anything

00:16:06 ◼   ► negative more than they used to so just

00:16:09 ◼   ► to put it in context at the time of

00:16:11 ◼   ► recording it's just a day actually I

00:16:13 ◼   ► think since SpaceX had this historic

00:16:16 ◼   ► historic moment for the company where

00:16:19 ◼   ► they did their first launch of the

00:16:21 ◼   ► so-called Falcon Heavy which is the more

00:16:24 ◼   ► powerful rocket which can throw things

00:16:26 ◼   ► further out into space and it's a big

00:16:28 ◼   ► milestone in the efforts to you know get

00:16:31 ◼   ► to Mars because you're going to need

00:16:32 ◼   ► these bigger rockets to get beyond Earth

00:16:34 ◼   ► orbit yeah my understanding is that this

00:16:36 ◼   ► is like a cargo rocket that's the idea

00:16:38 ◼   ► of it is it's it's for transporting a

00:16:41 ◼   ► non-trivial amount of stuff into space

00:16:43 ◼   ► yeah I imagine it what can also probably

00:16:45 ◼   ► transport manned craft I don't know

00:16:49 ◼   ► where exactly where that's heading but

00:16:50 ◼   ► what they had in at this time of course

00:16:51 ◼   ► was this Tesla Roadster car which

00:16:54 ◼   ► resulted in quite a substantial amount

00:16:56 ◼   ► of publicity they used Elon Musk's red

00:16:59 ◼   ► car with a mannequin astronaut at the

00:17:01 ◼   ► wheel as like their test payload mm-hmm

00:17:04 ◼   ► and it was all very successful so how am

00:17:07 ◼   ► I gonna do this gray do I get my gripes

00:17:09 ◼   ► out the way first or do i do them last

00:17:11 ◼   ► or do we go chronological or oh I wasn't

00:17:14 ◼   ► going to watch this live I was aware it

00:17:17 ◼   ► was happening because of Twitter but I

00:17:18 ◼   ► was not paying much attention and I

00:17:20 ◼   ► actually got a phone call from Duke of

00:17:23 ◼   ► Venezuela and he said are you watching

00:17:26 ◼   ► are you gonna watch it so I said alright

00:17:27 ◼   ► I'll watch oh and I watched him he

00:17:30 ◼   ► didn't call me no I totally missed out

00:17:32 ◼   ► on this because I was busy watching a

00:17:33 ◼   ► chick flick at the time I really didn't

00:17:35 ◼   ► have any idea well I was in the bath

00:17:38 ◼   ► when he code so I can top that

00:17:42 ◼   ► by anyway so I watched up I watched the

00:17:45 ◼   ► livestream along with all the other

00:17:48 ◼   ► SpaceX diehards and the rest of the

00:17:50 ◼   ► world and so I'm willing to talk about

00:17:52 ◼   ► on hello Internet if you were because

00:17:54 ◼   ► you have watched as well now gray at my

00:17:56 ◼   ► request haven't you but lately it's been

00:17:58 ◼   ► a very busy week but yes you sent me the

00:18:00 ◼   ► video you told me the relevant sections

00:18:03 ◼   ► to watch and so I I have seen the the

00:18:06 ◼   ► take off to reveal and the landing part

00:18:10 ◼   ► of the of the launch mera yet so let me

00:18:14 ◼   ► say when people criticize things that

00:18:15 ◼   ► doesn't mean they don't necessarily like

00:18:17 ◼   ► it gray and I criticize Star Wars all

00:18:19 ◼   ► day long but where Star Wars fans mm-hmm

00:18:22 ◼   ► so just because I say negative things

00:18:24 ◼   ► you know that just happens you know

00:18:26 ◼   ► that's just part of being a critic right

00:18:30 ◼   ► which is what we sometimes do but my

00:18:33 ◼   ► overall feeling watching the launch was

00:18:36 ◼   ► one of very great excitement more than I

00:18:40 ◼   ► would have expected partly maybe because

00:18:42 ◼   ► it was live and I knew you know

00:18:43 ◼   ► something could go wrong and I felt

00:18:45 ◼   ► myself really really hoping nothing

00:18:46 ◼   ► would go wrong mm-hmm

00:18:48 ◼   ► which is you know nice in itself and

00:18:50 ◼   ► also for the first time I was sort of

00:18:54 ◼   ► thinking do you know what we might

00:18:56 ◼   ► actually go like to Mars and stuff while

00:18:58 ◼   ► I'm still alive that's a very exciting

00:19:01 ◼   ► feeling mm-hmm so I was very excited by

00:19:05 ◼   ► it I thought it it looked fantastic

00:19:07 ◼   ► they're getting so good at covering

00:19:09 ◼   ► these things now and coverage has

00:19:10 ◼   ► improved so much that of course it's

00:19:12 ◼   ► gonna look fantastic but you know the

00:19:14 ◼   ► shots were good and the tracking shots

00:19:15 ◼   ► were good the landing of the two

00:19:18 ◼   ► boosters when they came back down like

00:19:20 ◼   ► in sync and landed was remarkable I

00:19:22 ◼   ► don't think that will ever get old the

00:19:24 ◼   ► sight of those boosters landing like a

00:19:26 ◼   ► couple of newborn giraffes trying to

00:19:28 ◼   ► walk on ice and you think surely those

00:19:30 ◼   ► things are gonna fall over and they

00:19:32 ◼   ► stuck it which was amazing I know the

00:19:33 ◼   ► one out to sea had a big smash and

00:19:36 ◼   ► didn't land properly but I think that is

00:19:38 ◼   ► a fantastic looking thing and I think

00:19:40 ◼   ► that's becoming the new kind of iconic

00:19:41 ◼   ► image of launchers like in the days of

00:19:44 ◼   ► Saturn the iconic shot was always you

00:19:46 ◼   ► know that one with us like a camera on

00:19:47 ◼   ► the on the gantry and you're really

00:19:50 ◼   ► close to the rocket and you'd always see

00:19:51 ◼   ► the fire and the ice falling off and

00:19:53 ◼   ► you'd see us a go past I know the exact

00:19:55 ◼   ► shot

00:19:55 ◼   ► you're talking about that is that that

00:19:57 ◼   ► is the iconic we're flying in a space

00:19:59 ◼   ► yeah funnily enough I think the iconic

00:20:02 ◼   ► shot now is those are those boosters

00:20:03 ◼   ► landing which is funny because it's not

00:20:05 ◼   ► the launch but I agree that that is

00:20:07 ◼   ► really impressive and it's way more

00:20:11 ◼   ► impressive than the launch yeah I found

00:20:15 ◼   ► watching the launch much more

00:20:17 ◼   ► interesting than I expected

00:20:20 ◼   ► it's one of those things where I don't

00:20:21 ◼   ► really have any sense of scale like I

00:20:23 ◼   ► don't actually understand what is the

00:20:26 ◼   ► size of this compared to like a Saturn 5

00:20:28 ◼   ► rocket I don't understand but on the

00:20:31 ◼   ► video it just looks huge and it looks

00:20:33 ◼   ► powerful with all of those boosters it

00:20:36 ◼   ► should look like a hell of a thing

00:20:37 ◼   ► taking off but I would say watching the

00:20:40 ◼   ► two boosters then return to Earth and

00:20:43 ◼   ► land vertically simultaneously I mean it

00:20:46 ◼   ► literally gave me chills I thought like

00:20:48 ◼   ► that is just such a crazy technological

00:20:53 ◼   ► achievement that it's it's just

00:20:55 ◼   ► impossible to fathom

00:20:57 ◼   ► obviously the launch of the payload is

00:21:01 ◼   ► the part that really matters here but

00:21:03 ◼   ► the booster landing is incredible and

00:21:06 ◼   ► it's it's a thing that in our previous

00:21:09 ◼   ► conversations about SpaceX I feel like I

00:21:11 ◼   ► didn't really understand at that point

00:21:12 ◼   ► in time and this one was like wow that

00:21:14 ◼   ► is amazing to see I don't get all

00:21:16 ◼   ► excited about it because I think oh wow

00:21:18 ◼   ► this is gonna make space travel cheaper

00:21:19 ◼   ► like that's just boring accounting the

00:21:22 ◼   ► thing that about it that I'm amazed by

00:21:24 ◼   ► is just how awesome it looks like it

00:21:25 ◼   ► just looks like made up so good on them

00:21:28 ◼   ► but just one last thing about the launch

00:21:30 ◼   ► and the coverage of the launch that I

00:21:32 ◼   ► watched and this is where I will upset

00:21:35 ◼   ► some people

00:21:35 ◼   ► the editorial decision that was made to

00:21:39 ◼   ► give so much prominence to the cheering

00:21:42 ◼   ► and hollering of the SpaceX employees

00:21:47 ◼   ► who were watching this happen which made

00:21:49 ◼   ► it feel more like a sporting event than

00:21:52 ◼   ► a scientific moment or an engineering

00:21:54 ◼   ► moment and I'm not opposed to them

00:21:55 ◼   ► getting excited and cheering and like a

00:21:58 ◼   ► lot of people said to me ah it added to

00:22:01 ◼   ► the drama and I think a little bit of it

00:22:03 ◼   ► maybe would have added to the drama

00:22:05 ◼   ► cutting to them occasionally or showing

00:22:06 ◼   ► them but I thought it was

00:22:09 ◼   ► too much for me it was laid on too thick

00:22:11 ◼   ► they were carrying on like a bunch of

00:22:13 ◼   ► frat boys and from the shots they showed

00:22:15 ◼   ► they were mainly boys so I don't feel

00:22:17 ◼   ► bad saying that they were carrying on

00:22:19 ◼   ► like pork chops at one point I heard

00:22:22 ◼   ► them go spook spook spooks like they

00:22:26 ◼   ► were superbowl people drinking from a

00:22:29 ◼   ► keg before the game for me it was like

00:22:32 ◼   ► it trampled all over the moment and it

00:22:35 ◼   ► wasn't like a bit of like controlled

00:22:37 ◼   ► excitement where the cool heads of the

00:22:39 ◼   ► of the engineers were saying come on

00:22:41 ◼   ► everyone let's come down I know you're

00:22:42 ◼   ► excited but this is like this is serious

00:22:44 ◼   ► business here

00:22:44 ◼   ► it was just like hollering and whooping

00:22:47 ◼   ► and no I thought it was too much and it

00:22:50 ◼   ► was an editorial decision because they

00:22:52 ◼   ► deliberately injected it all the way

00:22:54 ◼   ► through and they were cheering for every

00:22:56 ◼   ► single step that happened which you know

00:22:57 ◼   ► because they're engineers I get that

00:22:59 ◼   ► they're excited and each step was

00:23:00 ◼   ► another milestone for them okay we've

00:23:02 ◼   ► now gone to full electronic control

00:23:04 ◼   ► inside the rocket like come on man this

00:23:10 ◼   ► is like this is undignified

00:23:12 ◼   ► you're such a party pooper I'm not

00:23:18 ◼   ► objecting to their excitement and a

00:23:20 ◼   ► little bit of it it was very American

00:23:22 ◼   ► and it trampled all over the moment for

00:23:25 ◼   ► me and I know how much that upsets

00:23:27 ◼   ► people because it's all about the

00:23:28 ◼   ► employees and they had their names

00:23:30 ◼   ► written on the on the rocket and they're

00:23:32 ◼   ► the heroes of the day but I don't think

00:23:34 ◼   ► it was done with a very good Sensibility

00:23:36 ◼   ► I also would love to know where their

00:23:40 ◼   ► contingency was if the rocket had blown

00:23:42 ◼   ► up like were they going to cut that fade

00:23:44 ◼   ► or were they still going to show those

00:23:45 ◼   ► people then fall in a heap I'd love to

00:23:47 ◼   ► know what the plan was but we'll never

00:23:49 ◼   ► know because thankfully it didn't blow

00:23:51 ◼   ► up yes thankfully it didn't blow up

00:23:52 ◼   ► Brady you like space exploration much

00:23:55 ◼   ► better when it's boring guys and ties in

00:23:58 ◼   ► Houston not finding a proxy nuclear war

00:24:01 ◼   ► with the Soviet Union oh well I mean

00:24:05 ◼   ► obviously I'm a real fan of it but like

00:24:07 ◼   ► I love the dignity of then they were

00:24:10 ◼   ► bottling it up because they knew they

00:24:11 ◼   ► had a job to do and when they got

00:24:13 ◼   ► excited they be told hang on don't be

00:24:15 ◼   ► excited there's more to come come on

00:24:16 ◼   ► well we're professionals we're

00:24:18 ◼   ► scientists were engineers we know the

00:24:19 ◼   ► risks here and I know these people

00:24:21 ◼   ► weren't like on shift

00:24:22 ◼   ► I was gonna say I don't think this was

00:24:24 ◼   ► like the people in the night crew yeah

00:24:27 ◼   ► bunch of people who were standing around

00:24:29 ◼   ► like it looked like engineers who had

00:24:31 ◼   ► worked on the thing yeah and and it's

00:24:33 ◼   ► great that they were made so much a part

00:24:34 ◼   ► of it I just thought I don't know they

00:24:37 ◼   ► were turned up to lay out they was laid

00:24:39 ◼   ► on too thick and it was a bit like can

00:24:41 ◼   ► everyone just shut up for a minute I'm

00:24:42 ◼   ► trying to hear what's going on and like

00:24:44 ◼   ► I don't think they got the balance right

00:24:46 ◼   ► of that part of the broadcast and here

00:24:48 ◼   ► we're just talking about cosmetics of

00:24:49 ◼   ► course this is just the broadcast this

00:24:51 ◼   ► has got nothing to do with the

00:24:53 ◼   ► accomplishment or the fate and yes I

00:24:55 ◼   ► know they're happy and I know they're

00:24:57 ◼   ► proud and I know they're responsible and

00:24:58 ◼   ► I know all that stuff but I'm not the

00:25:01 ◼   ► only one who thought that by the way

00:25:02 ◼   ► what did you think you watched it what

00:25:04 ◼   ► did you think I'm laughing because I had

00:25:06 ◼   ► a bit of a different reaction I was

00:25:07 ◼   ► aware that there was a ton of cheering

00:25:10 ◼   ► and that's obviously like an editorial

00:25:12 ◼   ► decision

00:25:12 ◼   ► I didn't mind because I do think it

00:25:15 ◼   ► makes it more exciting to watch than if

00:25:18 ◼   ► they just had the audio feed from

00:25:20 ◼   ► Mission Control and you were hearing the

00:25:22 ◼   ► the people who were actually working

00:25:23 ◼   ► just saying whatever they need to say

00:25:26 ◼   ► sort of like when we when we've

00:25:28 ◼   ► discussed the audio logs from plane

00:25:30 ◼   ► crashes I'm always struck by how

00:25:34 ◼   ► professional those recordings are and

00:25:36 ◼   ► how calm the pilots are under

00:25:40 ◼   ► circumstances where I would be screaming

00:25:42 ◼   ► and they're just like we're reporting

00:25:44 ◼   ► the second engine is out on the

00:25:45 ◼   ► right-hand side it's like oh my god dude

00:25:49 ◼   ► but that's what you need when it's a

00:25:51 ◼   ► professional environment right I want a

00:25:52 ◼   ► playlist who's able to just do that

00:25:54 ◼   ► because it is like keep it together man

00:25:56 ◼   ► I'm fine with the yelling in the

00:25:59 ◼   ► excitement because part of what SpaceX

00:26:02 ◼   ► is doing here is almost like a

00:26:03 ◼   ► recruitment video for like future

00:26:05 ◼   ► engineers for working at SpaceX like you

00:26:07 ◼   ► want a thing that's exciting so I

00:26:09 ◼   ► totally get that at one point they had

00:26:11 ◼   ► two commentators who just start talking

00:26:13 ◼   ► and then for me that's where am I think

00:26:15 ◼   ► like stop talking comment are you

00:26:16 ◼   ► talking over the thing like I don't want

00:26:18 ◼   ► to hear it whatever user just show me

00:26:19 ◼   ► the feet I can see it on the screen I

00:26:22 ◼   ► don't need to talking heads telling me

00:26:24 ◼   ► that I'm looking at a rocket going into

00:26:26 ◼   ► space like obviously they turned it into

00:26:28 ◼   ► a sports coverage I have the hollering

00:26:30 ◼   ► you know frat boys they've got the

00:26:32 ◼   ► glitzy good-looking young commentators

00:26:35 ◼   ► who are sitting there at the day

00:26:36 ◼   ► giving us some punditry and filling time

00:26:38 ◼   ► and that they're turning until uh yeah

00:26:40 ◼   ► it's the Superbowl of space the thing

00:26:42 ◼   ► that it made me think of it's like this

00:26:45 ◼   ► is an old rage comic which I wonder if

00:26:46 ◼   ► anybody can find on the internet it's

00:26:48 ◼   ► forever old but it always made me laugh

00:26:49 ◼   ► so hard and it was a comic that somebody

00:26:51 ◼   ► made when the Royal Wedding happened

00:26:53 ◼   ► years ago and it shows that like a guy

00:26:55 ◼   ► who's sitting at home who doesn't really

00:26:57 ◼   ► care about the Royal Wedding and he just

00:26:58 ◼   ► turns it on and he's watching it he

00:27:00 ◼   ► starts getting more and more into the

00:27:01 ◼   ► Royal Wedding

00:27:02 ◼   ► and then Katie Couric is doing the

00:27:04 ◼   ► narration about what's happening on the

00:27:06 ◼   ► wedding and like the caption has like

00:27:07 ◼   ► shut the fuck up Katie Couric I just

00:27:09 ◼   ► want to watch as pretty princess getting

00:27:10 ◼   ► married that was kind of my feeling with

00:27:12 ◼   ► the space launch is like when the two

00:27:13 ◼   ► commentators start talking is like shut

00:27:15 ◼   ► the fuck up I just want to watch the

00:27:16 ◼   ► rocket I don't really want to hear your

00:27:18 ◼   ► comments on this so that's where it

00:27:20 ◼   ► bothered me more is like the words but

00:27:22 ◼   ► the cheering I don't know personally I

00:27:24 ◼   ► can see why some people might think it

00:27:27 ◼   ► was a bit much because it was a lot but

00:27:31 ◼   ► the cheering I was okay with I think it

00:27:34 ◼   ► made it more exciting to watch so I

00:27:35 ◼   ► can't get with you on this one I would

00:27:38 ◼   ► have cut to the cheering mm-hmm as it

00:27:40 ◼   ► lifted off the pad mm-hmm but all the

00:27:42 ◼   ► other cheering throughout the whole

00:27:44 ◼   ► process from like three or four minutes

00:27:46 ◼   ► before to five minutes after it just

00:27:49 ◼   ► been little de Anna you know what it did

00:27:52 ◼   ► make it more exciting

00:27:53 ◼   ► but open-heart surgery would be more

00:27:55 ◼   ► exciting if you had a thousand people

00:27:56 ◼   ► cheering as it happened it doesn't mean

00:27:58 ◼   ► it's like appropriate that's not what

00:28:00 ◼   ► was really going on the people who are

00:28:01 ◼   ► making this happened well I just I don't

00:28:04 ◼   ► know I like the image in my head of

00:28:06 ◼   ► broadcaster Brady who's managing all the

00:28:08 ◼   ► live streams for SpaceX and the Rockets

00:28:11 ◼   ► going up you have your hand on the dial

00:28:13 ◼   ► for how much crowd cheering we can hear

00:28:15 ◼   ► and you turn it up as the rocket goes up

00:28:17 ◼   ► you give it a second dip and then Brady

00:28:19 ◼   ► turns it down that's enough of that

00:28:22 ◼   ► people just turns it and I would have

00:28:23 ◼   ► had okay now's a good time cut to the

00:28:25 ◼   ► frat boys let's see them jumping up and

00:28:27 ◼   ► down give them a few seconds well

00:28:30 ◼   ► include er include them as part of it

00:28:32 ◼   ► but it just overwhelmed it anyway

00:28:34 ◼   ► obviously obviously I'm in the minority

00:28:36 ◼   ► here and so be it let's get to the

00:28:39 ◼   ► business of the car in space okay all

00:28:42 ◼   ► right so to the final stage we had

00:28:45 ◼   ► bolted this Tesla Roadster

00:28:48 ◼   ► which I didn't realize of course I

00:28:50 ◼   ► should have realized cuz of course it

00:28:51 ◼   ► always has to be this way was going to

00:28:52 ◼   ► like do some laps of the earth before it

00:28:54 ◼   ► got flung out into the far reaches of

00:28:57 ◼   ► the solar system mm-hmm and I have a few

00:28:59 ◼   ► thoughts about it but the first thing I

00:29:01 ◼   ► have to say is I was not prepared for

00:29:06 ◼   ► how awesome it would look like when they

00:29:09 ◼   ► started cutting to those shots and you

00:29:10 ◼   ► had the live stream of it and like the

00:29:12 ◼   ► thing was just slowly rotating and the

00:29:14 ◼   ► earth was just like creeping into shock

00:29:17 ◼   ► behind

00:29:17 ◼   ► spaceman star man in the red car it was

00:29:20 ◼   ► like I couldn't stop looking at it and I

00:29:23 ◼   ► was like like I had to show people I

00:29:26 ◼   ► would like say to my wife oh my goodness

00:29:27 ◼   ► you just have to look at this and I'd be

00:29:29 ◼   ► watching her and she'd be like yeah okay

00:29:30 ◼   ► I've seen it but like I found it

00:29:32 ◼   ► completely hypnotic artistically it was

00:29:36 ◼   ► like it looked impressive yeah I'll

00:29:39 ◼   ► completely agree with you there this is

00:29:41 ◼   ► how I was aware the event occurred

00:29:42 ◼   ► because when I was done watching my

00:29:45 ◼   ► chick flick and I've turned on Twitter

00:29:46 ◼   ► realize like what are all these pictures

00:29:48 ◼   ► is from space of this car like I had a

00:29:51 ◼   ► weird experience of the pictures look so

00:29:55 ◼   ► in some sense so strange like I had a

00:29:58 ◼   ► very hard time understanding out of

00:30:00 ◼   ► context what is this actually a

00:30:02 ◼   ► photograph of and so I had to do a

00:30:04 ◼   ► little bit of digging around about like

00:30:05 ◼   ► what does this situation actually look

00:30:08 ◼   ► like not just from the the camera that's

00:30:10 ◼   ► on the the front of this car like what

00:30:13 ◼   ► is what is the actual situation that I'm

00:30:15 ◼   ► looking at but the pictures themselves

00:30:17 ◼   ► they're very impressive but there's

00:30:20 ◼   ► almost like sort of like the Maryland

00:30:22 ◼   ► point where a photo can become so

00:30:24 ◼   ► impressive it becomes unreal looking

00:30:26 ◼   ► like I have a hard time looking at those

00:30:29 ◼   ► photos and thinking of them as real even

00:30:32 ◼   ► though I know they are it's just like

00:30:34 ◼   ► I'm looking at a car floating above the

00:30:36 ◼   ► earth my brain does not process this as

00:30:38 ◼   ► a real image it looks very strange so

00:30:41 ◼   ► should they have sent a car to space or

00:30:43 ◼   ► not yeah of course why not

00:30:46 ◼   ► what can be the reason to not do well

00:30:48 ◼   ► here's what I think about it it looked

00:30:52 ◼   ► amazing as like an artistic project as a

00:30:55 ◼   ► piece of art I think that warrants it

00:30:58 ◼   ► like it just you know sometimes you have

00:30:59 ◼   ► to do something

00:31:00 ◼   ► I mean musk himself

00:31:01 ◼   ► sometimes you just have to do something

00:31:03 ◼   ► because it's fun and a bit crazy hmm

00:31:05 ◼   ► and I think that completely justifies it

00:31:06 ◼   ► and I think you know and whether or not

00:31:08 ◼   ► they sent up sculpture or a bright red

00:31:12 ◼   ► car with the with an astronaut the wheel

00:31:14 ◼   ► which was a bit more funny or whatever

00:31:16 ◼   ► they decided to send up okay they they

00:31:18 ◼   ► decided to make it an artistic project

00:31:20 ◼   ► the main argument that burns on the

00:31:23 ◼   ► internet about this was if they're going

00:31:24 ◼   ► to spend all that money could they have

00:31:26 ◼   ► used a payload that had a bit more

00:31:27 ◼   ► scientific value like they didn't want

00:31:29 ◼   ► to risk some billion-dollar satellite

00:31:30 ◼   ► but could they have sent something up

00:31:32 ◼   ► that was like more useful and that's

00:31:34 ◼   ► like you know I think your position

00:31:36 ◼   ► that's clear from your noise I

00:31:38 ◼   ► understand the reason why people want to

00:31:40 ◼   ► go down that road

00:31:41 ◼   ► yeah but they that road never ends okay

00:31:45 ◼   ► well you could always in theory spend

00:31:48 ◼   ► more money in a more practical way

00:31:51 ◼   ► there's a never a time that is not true

00:31:55 ◼   ► that argument on its own I find never

00:31:59 ◼   ► convincing oh this money could have been

00:32:01 ◼   ► spent in a more effective way of course

00:32:03 ◼   ► all money that could be true so I just

00:32:07 ◼   ► don't find that interesting I agree with

00:32:09 ◼   ► you and I think doing something artistic

00:32:11 ◼   ► and fun is good mm-hmm

00:32:13 ◼   ► here's the one problem I have with it

00:32:15 ◼   ► though and that is the muddy water that

00:32:19 ◼   ► is created by the commercial aspect of

00:32:23 ◼   ► it because ela must run SpaceX and he's

00:32:26 ◼   ► got grand plans for it he also runs

00:32:28 ◼   ► Tesla which is you know losing a bit of

00:32:31 ◼   ► money at the moment and they're trying

00:32:32 ◼   ► to make a successful business out of it

00:32:33 ◼   ► this was fantastic publicity and

00:32:35 ◼   ► promotion for the Tesla company and I

00:32:39 ◼   ► think that's where it starts getting a

00:32:41 ◼   ► bit blurrier between doing something for

00:32:43 ◼   ► fun and something artistic that just

00:32:45 ◼   ► tickled the world and inspired people

00:32:46 ◼   ► which is what it did without question

00:32:49 ◼   ► it's a very inspiring thing to do and a

00:32:51 ◼   ► very viral thing to do and in fairness

00:32:54 ◼   ► to Tesla and Elon Musk I do think they

00:32:56 ◼   ► showed restraint you know they didn't

00:32:58 ◼   ► have big bright Tesla signs everywhere

00:33:00 ◼   ► and make it look too commercial I think

00:33:02 ◼   ► they showed a lot of dignity in that

00:33:04 ◼   ► respect the dashboard said don't panic

00:33:06 ◼   ► it didn't say for 25 percent off your

00:33:10 ◼   ► next Tesla offer code spaceman right at

00:33:12 ◼   ► your local dealer right looks like

00:33:14 ◼   ► that's not what they did

00:33:15 ◼   ► so yeah there was not an overabundance

00:33:18 ◼   ► of commercial this year exactly they did

00:33:20 ◼   ► show restraint but I do think it is

00:33:22 ◼   ► still a little bit muddy

00:33:24 ◼   ► I mean he's you know they're paying for

00:33:26 ◼   ► it themselves it's not I don't know how

00:33:27 ◼   ► much taxpayer money went into this whole

00:33:29 ◼   ► thing I don't know if they you know are

00:33:31 ◼   ► paying the normal rates for the use of

00:33:33 ◼   ► the NASA facilities or not but you know

00:33:35 ◼   ► they're paying for it so to some extent

00:33:37 ◼   ► I'm completely on board with them doing

00:33:39 ◼   ► what they want with their rocket but you

00:33:41 ◼   ► do know I worry about the

00:33:42 ◼   ► commercialization of space and coca-cola

00:33:44 ◼   ► billboards and things like that and this

00:33:46 ◼   ► still was a little bit promotional and I

00:33:48 ◼   ► think that's what left me with a little

00:33:50 ◼   ► bit of unease about it like you can't

00:33:53 ◼   ► just say ah I did this for fun because I

00:33:55 ◼   ► thought it would be funny and I just

00:33:56 ◼   ► needed some weight there's certainly a

00:33:58 ◼   ► marketing and promotional agenda at play

00:34:02 ◼   ► here that is legitimate and no one's

00:34:05 ◼   ► breaking any rules or anything but it

00:34:06 ◼   ► just feels a bit like okay yeah I

00:34:10 ◼   ► selling a few cars while you're there

00:34:11 ◼   ► are you mate okay so yeah I feel like I

00:34:14 ◼   ► I don't understand the parameters of

00:34:16 ◼   ► what you mean by muddied the only

00:34:19 ◼   ► comparison I could think of here is like

00:34:20 ◼   ► Steve Jobs being so involved in Pixar

00:34:23 ◼   ► and Apple and so then you had like cross

00:34:26 ◼   ► promotion between those companies but I

00:34:29 ◼   ► feel like at least from what I have read

00:34:32 ◼   ► about the greater musk Empire like the

00:34:36 ◼   ► Solar City Tesla and SpaceX are

00:34:38 ◼   ► companies that are sharing a lot of

00:34:40 ◼   ► technology between them yeah so there's

00:34:43 ◼   ► something to me that I just I do not

00:34:45 ◼   ► think that these companies are as

00:34:47 ◼   ► separate as normal companies would be so

00:34:51 ◼   ► I guess I'm just I'm not quite

00:34:54 ◼   ► understanding what you're saying money

00:34:56 ◼   ► people complaining about a lack of

00:34:57 ◼   ► quarantining between his different

00:34:59 ◼   ► business is it more like the humanity

00:35:01 ◼   ► star it's just the fact that there's

00:35:03 ◼   ► like a tesla going around earth I feel

00:35:05 ◼   ► like this was like a big milestone for

00:35:07 ◼   ► space exploration certainly that's how

00:35:10 ◼   ► it's been pitched and having a carrot

00:35:13 ◼   ► virtus man bolted to the front of it

00:35:15 ◼   ► feels like cheapening it a bit and by

00:35:19 ◼   ► the way I'm also well aware that I wear

00:35:21 ◼   ► an amiga watch that was the one they

00:35:23 ◼   ► wore on the moon and all the marketing

00:35:24 ◼   ► involved with it as well say like I'm

00:35:26 ◼   ► aware this goes back to the days of NASA

00:35:28 ◼   ► too

00:35:29 ◼   ► right this was a bit more overt

00:35:30 ◼   ► obviously a bright red car with a

00:35:32 ◼   ► mannequin at the steering wheel rather

00:35:34 ◼   ► than oh we need a watch who are we gonna

00:35:35 ◼   ► get out what just from it's certainly

00:35:37 ◼   ► easier to spot on the live stream than

00:35:39 ◼   ► the bridge I've watched the astronauts

00:35:41 ◼   ► are wearing when they landed on the moon

00:35:42 ◼   ► yes that's for sure it just felt

00:35:44 ◼   ► promotional it's a bit like did you have

00:35:46 ◼   ► to try and flog your cars at the same

00:35:47 ◼   ► time too

00:35:49 ◼   ► don't get me wrong I like the whimsy of

00:35:51 ◼   ► it and like the fun of it and I'm

00:35:53 ◼   ► totally on board with that and it

00:35:55 ◼   ► totally worked on me it totally worked

00:35:57 ◼   ► on me but at the same time I was

00:35:59 ◼   ► thinking I yep pocketing a few extra

00:36:01 ◼   ► bucks there Hey

00:36:01 ◼   ► yeah let's push the business it's like

00:36:04 ◼   ► if you know when if Neil Armstrong and

00:36:05 ◼   ► Buzz Aldrin went to the moon and they

00:36:07 ◼   ► stuck a flag in the soil and it had the

00:36:09 ◼   ► General Motors logo on it instead of

00:36:10 ◼   ► America because General Motors had paid

00:36:12 ◼   ► them you know five hundred million you'd

00:36:15 ◼   ► be thinking man that was a pretty

00:36:17 ◼   ► historic moment to be vlogging cars I

00:36:20 ◼   ► think that there is something

00:36:21 ◼   ► interesting about your thoughts here

00:36:24 ◼   ► that I can't quite grasp why I don't

00:36:28 ◼   ► agree with you on this and I think like

00:36:32 ◼   ► so the General Motors one is an

00:36:33 ◼   ► interesting comparison and it's like I

00:36:35 ◼   ► agree under that circumstance if they

00:36:36 ◼   ► got out and they put a GM flag on the

00:36:38 ◼   ► moon because GM sponsored the NASA space

00:36:41 ◼   ► flight it would feel like oh that's sad

00:36:44 ◼   ► but I wouldn't feel that way if in an

00:36:47 ◼   ► alternate universe of history the United

00:36:50 ◼   ► States government wasn't actually the

00:36:52 ◼   ► primary mover and the primary mover was

00:36:55 ◼   ► GE like an n GE was the entity that was

00:36:59 ◼   ► doing the space exploration in a much

00:37:02 ◼   ► more direct way I guess this is partly

00:37:04 ◼   ► like I don't really care what the entity

00:37:07 ◼   ► is and in some ways like when NASA does

00:37:11 ◼   ► a thing they're selling the idea that

00:37:14 ◼   ► America has nuclear superiority during

00:37:17 ◼   ► the Cold War and when SpaceX is doing a

00:37:21 ◼   ► thing they are selling the idea of

00:37:24 ◼   ► increased cargo capacity to space I

00:37:26 ◼   ► don't see those things as wildly

00:37:29 ◼   ► different I'll tell you where the

00:37:32 ◼   ► problem comes from and I know there's a

00:37:33 ◼   ► difference here between a businessman

00:37:36 ◼   ► and a commercial entity and for example

00:37:38 ◼   ► say governments and politicians right

00:37:41 ◼   ► but people have a resist

00:37:43 ◼   ► well some people have a resistance to

00:37:45 ◼   ► people in positions of great power and

00:37:47 ◼   ► authority using that to give themselves

00:37:50 ◼   ► even more and the best example I could

00:37:52 ◼   ► think of was say you elected a leader of

00:37:55 ◼   ► a country you know you elected someone

00:37:57 ◼   ► your president or prime minister and

00:37:59 ◼   ► they happen to own a bunch of hotels or

00:38:02 ◼   ► golf courses or something like that and

00:38:04 ◼   ► when they became leader they started

00:38:07 ◼   ► using all their facilities and their

00:38:09 ◼   ► commercial interests in the duties of

00:38:12 ◼   ► their political office you'd start to

00:38:15 ◼   ► think hang on you're using that to your

00:38:16 ◼   ► advantage to feather your own nest and

00:38:18 ◼   ► like you shouldn't be leveraging that

00:38:20 ◼   ► position of power yeah and I taught I

00:38:22 ◼   ► totally agree with you that right like

00:38:24 ◼   ► that's also a case but that seems much

00:38:25 ◼   ► more like a like a conflict of interest

00:38:27 ◼   ► yeah between the role of a civil servant

00:38:30 ◼   ► and the role of a businessperson I said

00:38:32 ◼   ► at the start I say a difference but he

00:38:34 ◼   ► is leveraging a position of great brute

00:38:37 ◼   ► force and power financial power and you

00:38:40 ◼   ► know privilege and collaboration with

00:38:42 ◼   ► the government and things that help

00:38:43 ◼   ► SpaceX like the SpaceX has a lot of

00:38:45 ◼   ► government contracts so he's like he's

00:38:47 ◼   ► got into this position of great power

00:38:48 ◼   ► and great influence and then bolting his

00:38:52 ◼   ► car from his other company on the front

00:38:54 ◼   ► while he's at it

00:38:55 ◼   ► fear was in this in a similar vein it's

00:38:58 ◼   ► not the same but it feels in a similar

00:39:00 ◼   ► vein it's like okay so you've built this

00:39:02 ◼   ► rocket company and you're getting all

00:39:03 ◼   ► these government contracts and you're

00:39:05 ◼   ► like you're launching from a NASA

00:39:07 ◼   ► facility and that and while you're there

00:39:09 ◼   ► you're thinking oh let's Chuck a Tesla

00:39:12 ◼   ► on the front as well because that will

00:39:14 ◼   ► help my other business it's not the same

00:39:16 ◼   ► mm-hmm I don't think he's done anything

00:39:17 ◼   ► well I'm sure he hasn't done anything

00:39:19 ◼   ► improper he wouldn't have been allowed

00:39:21 ◼   ► to do it but it just has that feeling to

00:39:23 ◼   ► it of I came I that's enough enough what

00:39:27 ◼   ► else do you want to sell while you're at

00:39:28 ◼   ► it hmm

00:39:29 ◼   ► that's just a little feeling in the back

00:39:30 ◼   ► of the head about it I did think it was

00:39:31 ◼   ► cold though I did love it I did love it

00:39:33 ◼   ► okay here's a question for you if we

00:39:36 ◼   ► could go back in time and you're able to

00:39:38 ◼   ► make the decision about what the payload

00:39:40 ◼   ► should be would you change it would you

00:39:43 ◼   ► say I think it would be better if it's

00:39:46 ◼   ► not a Tesla if it's a different payload

00:39:48 ◼   ► you know if the decision was totally

00:39:50 ◼   ► down to you what's happening is like

00:39:51 ◼   ► Elon Musk has brought you on and an

00:39:53 ◼   ► advisor and he's saying I may have lost

00:39:55 ◼   ► perspective on this

00:39:56 ◼   ► you Brady we all know from the podcast

00:39:58 ◼   ► yeah you're hugely influential podcast

00:40:01 ◼   ► that you are the number one fan of space

00:40:03 ◼   ► what do you think we should do yeah I

00:40:04 ◼   ► would say to him I think this is a good

00:40:07 ◼   ► idea I think the visual of a cool sports

00:40:09 ◼   ► car with an astronaut at the wheel will

00:40:12 ◼   ► really capture people's imaginations but

00:40:15 ◼   ► I think I mean he's in an impossible

00:40:17 ◼   ► position that if you're gonna use a car

00:40:18 ◼   ► cause he owns a car company but I would

00:40:20 ◼   ► say to him is there something else that

00:40:22 ◼   ► would have equal impact and be equally

00:40:25 ◼   ► clever and funny that hasn't got such a

00:40:27 ◼   ► direct attachment to you a because of

00:40:31 ◼   ► the commercial appearance of it and

00:40:33 ◼   ► because of maybe the slightly

00:40:35 ◼   ► egotistical appearance of it I'd say to

00:40:37 ◼   ► him I love the idea I probably wouldn't

00:40:41 ◼   ► have said to him I love the idea because

00:40:42 ◼   ► I was wrong I didn't realize how cold it

00:40:44 ◼   ► would look but now that I do realize how

00:40:46 ◼   ► cool yet in this scenario you are both

00:40:48 ◼   ► future Brady who knows how it works and

00:40:49 ◼   ► Asprey who's doing the advice right so

00:40:52 ◼   ► my my advice with all this knowledge of

00:40:54 ◼   ► hindsight would be brilliant idea it's

00:40:56 ◼   ► gonna really capture people but do it in

00:40:59 ◼   ► a way that makes you look a bit less

00:41:02 ◼   ► egotistical in a way that looks less

00:41:05 ◼   ► like you're trying to do something

00:41:07 ◼   ► commercial is this something else is

00:41:09 ◼   ► there another way we could do it and

00:41:11 ◼   ► achieve all the same good things without

00:41:13 ◼   ► that kind of akina's to it I don't know

00:41:16 ◼   ► if I'd have that idea but that's what I

00:41:18 ◼   ► say they're just listening to that all I

00:41:19 ◼   ► can imagine is if I was the CEO of

00:41:21 ◼   ► company and you were my advisor there

00:41:22 ◼   ► I'd be coming like okay great but I'm

00:41:25 ◼   ► really busy what is your suggestion if

00:41:26 ◼   ► you don't have another suggestion we're

00:41:28 ◼   ► going with this well I'd say can I have

00:41:30 ◼   ► more than the 30 seconds that gray just

00:41:32 ◼   ► gave me okay you can have until the next

00:41:33 ◼   ► episode of hello internet that's how

00:41:35 ◼   ► much time you I don't astok and that

00:41:38 ◼   ► achiness like just to put things in the

00:41:41 ◼   ► right context that achiness is less than

00:41:42 ◼   ► how fantastic I thought it was like on

00:41:45 ◼   ► the cosmic scales of this there is no

00:41:48 ◼   ► doubt that launching a Tesla into space

00:41:52 ◼   ► means that way more people watch this

00:41:56 ◼   ► launch than ever would have yes I'm not

00:41:59 ◼   ► convinced that this actually sells a lot

00:42:02 ◼   ► of Tesla's but it's sure like I can

00:42:05 ◼   ► guarantee that there's like increased

00:42:07 ◼   ► the viewership of the livestream

00:42:10 ◼   ► 50% 60% I bet it is some enormous amount

00:42:15 ◼   ► this is a concrete load because it just

00:42:18 ◼   ► makes it such a thing and the subsequent

00:42:20 ◼   ► coverage yeah I bet you're a hassle cars

00:42:22 ◼   ► I know people that are looking at the

00:42:23 ◼   ► cars now as a result and then also just

00:42:25 ◼   ► increases like the brand awareness so

00:42:27 ◼   ► which is also probably what the chief

00:42:29 ◼   ► executive would have laughed me out of

00:42:30 ◼   ► in the office when I went in there with

00:42:31 ◼   ► mine is not a commercial Hey are you

00:42:34 ◼   ► worried let's you work at a company

00:42:35 ◼   ► you're in the wrong place but yeah the

00:42:38 ◼   ► the showmanship of it was very good do

00:42:42 ◼   ► you want to hear my idea okay what's

00:42:43 ◼   ► your idea if we're gonna be a key in

00:42:45 ◼   ► about money what do you think of this