The Accidental Tech Podcast

02:00:00 ◼   ► down and build it and new let's go all [TS]

02:00:02 ◼   ► in on something along the lines of [TS]

02:00:04 ◼   ► functional reactive programming and [TS]

02:00:05 ◼   ► maybe that's not the actual answer but [TS]

02:00:07 ◼   ► something that dramatic do you think [TS]

02:00:09 ◼   ► that it would be something that big if [TS]

02:00:11 ◼   ► this this hypothetical H I kit or do you [TS]

02:00:14 ◼   ► think it would be something much closer [TS]

02:00:16 ◼   ► to a shim and let me start with Marco on [TS]

02:00:19 ◼   ► this to be all cocoa bindings Oh God I I [TS]

02:00:24 ◼   ► don't honestly like I'm not hugely into [TS]

02:00:26 ◼   ► the whole reactive thing like I kind of [TS]

02:00:28 ◼   ► do my own thing with with that but of [TS]

02:00:31 ◼   ► course but so I I'm not entirely [TS]

02:00:35 ◼   ► convinced that that is the inevitable [TS]

02:00:36 ◼   ► forward sure you know place to go but [TS]

02:00:39 ◼   ► but whatever the answer whatever the [TS]

02:00:41 ◼   ► yeah so the if you if just the larger [TS]

02:00:43 ◼   ► question of like would they [TS]

02:00:44 ◼   ► fundamentally change like design [TS]

02:00:47 ◼   ► patterns of of the way to do UI [TS]

02:00:49 ◼   ► framework exactly it depends on like do [TS]

02:00:52 ◼   ► they want to also like blow up iOS as [TS]

02:00:56 ◼   ► well because if the idea of this is to [TS]

02:00:58 ◼   ► make developing for the Mac more like [TS]

02:01:02 ◼   ► iOS then no they shouldn't move on in [TS]

02:01:06 ◼   ► such a major way because that isn't how [TS]

02:01:08 ◼   ► I OS works but if the goal of this is to [TS]

02:01:11 ◼   ► be like the next generation unified UI [TS]

02:01:14 ◼   ► framework for all of their platforms if [TS]

02:01:18 ◼   ► possibly making it Swift only then sure [TS]

02:01:20 ◼   ► that would make sense like it would it [TS]

02:01:21 ◼   ► would make the most sense to design it [TS]

02:01:25 ◼   ► in a way that takes maximum advantage [TS]

02:01:28 ◼   ► and fits in best with the design of the [TS]

02:01:30 ◼   ► Swift language which has which would [TS]

02:01:33 ◼   ► come with lots of changes that that [TS]

02:01:35 ◼   ► don't work the same way because like so [TS]

02:01:37 ◼   ► much of ab kit and UI kit is based on [TS]

02:01:39 ◼   ► the way objective-c works and is and is [TS]

02:01:42 ◼   ► designed because you know they were it [TS]

02:01:44 ◼   ► was it was always language it was [TS]

02:01:46 ◼   ► designed with that in mind and it was [TS]

02:01:48 ◼   ► designed with a lot of C idioms and [TS]

02:01:49 ◼   ► things that work very well with fictive [TS]

02:01:51 ◼   ► C with Swift there's a lot of weird [TS]

02:01:54 ◼   ► friction when you when you try to you [TS]

02:01:56 ◼   ► know when you when you use UI kit and a [TS]

02:01:58 ◼   ► lot of Apple frameworks from Swift you [TS]

02:02:00 ◼   ► can tell like this really wasn't [TS]

02:02:02 ◼   ► designed for this and it's it's not as [TS]

02:02:04 ◼   ► good as it could be or it doesn't [TS]

02:02:05 ◼   ► doesn't quite fit in right doesn't feel [TS]

02:02:07 ◼   ► right or or is not as graceful as it [TS]

02:02:09 ◼   ► could be so if they're going to move [TS]

02:02:12 ◼   ► forward and make this like the [TS]

02:02:13 ◼   ► new swift only thing that is our our [TS]

02:02:16 ◼   ► modern you know answer it like this is [TS]

02:02:19 ◼   ► gonna be for the next 15 years framework [TS]

02:02:21 ◼   ► then yeah change a lot to make it more [TS]

02:02:23 ◼   ► Swift like I don't not necessarily like [TS]

02:02:25 ◼   ► functional reactive I don't you know [TS]

02:02:26 ◼   ► sure sure [TS]

02:02:27 ◼   ► but just make it more Swift like you [TS]

02:02:29 ◼   ► know make it ideal for Swift but if [TS]

02:02:31 ◼   ► they're going for let's make it as easy [TS]

02:02:33 ◼   ► as possible for existing iOS developers [TS]

02:02:35 ◼   ► to also make mac apps then I then not [TS]

02:02:39 ◼   ► necessarily so you have to I think I [TS]

02:02:42 ◼   ► look at when you talk about UI kit and [TS]

02:02:44 ◼   ► even app get for that matter any [TS]

02:02:46 ◼   ► framework like that that lives for a [TS]

02:02:48 ◼   ► long time evolves and you can see like [TS]

02:02:51 ◼   ► as you look down through the layers of [TS]

02:02:52 ◼   ► like how things have changed like as in [TS]

02:02:56 ◼   ► case point out before before you know [TS]

02:02:59 ◼   ► closures were a thing everything was you [TS]

02:03:01 ◼   ► know straight up delegation and then [TS]

02:03:03 ◼   ► suddenly when closures were a thing even [TS]

02:03:05 ◼   ► setting aside Swift it was like oh now a [TS]

02:03:07 ◼   ► bunch of new api's are coming take a [TS]

02:03:09 ◼   ► call back right and they take a closure [TS]

02:03:11 ◼   ► as an argument and that becomes the [TS]

02:03:12 ◼   ► pattern that you start to see you don't [TS]

02:03:14 ◼   ► see it everywhere you the old api's [TS]

02:03:16 ◼   ► don't have it but they introduced new [TS]

02:03:17 ◼   ► api is they do have it and so you know [TS]

02:03:19 ◼   ► each new year WWC the framework that you [TS]

02:03:23 ◼   ► new slowly changes and evolves whatever [TS]

02:03:27 ◼   ► the next framework is the the most [TS]

02:03:30 ◼   ► conservative answer is take whatever the [TS]

02:03:33 ◼   ► the current best thinking about you I [TS]

02:03:35 ◼   ► kid is not like make it like you I kid [TS]

02:03:37 ◼   ► exactly because there are parts of UI [TS]

02:03:39 ◼   ► kit that have been updated to use the [TS]

02:03:42 ◼   ► current best thinking and you know the [TS]

02:03:43 ◼   ► closure is an example of like and that [TS]

02:03:45 ◼   ► happens to fit was Swift because if it's [TS]

02:03:47 ◼   ► native support for that and you don't [TS]

02:03:48 ◼   ► have to use this stupid block syntax and [TS]

02:03:50 ◼   ► all the other stuff but make all of the [TS]

02:03:53 ◼   ► new api's use the current best thinking [TS]

02:03:56 ◼   ► and I don't think that actually entirely [TS]

02:03:59 ◼   ► precludes a larger change because if you [TS]

02:04:04 ◼   ► keep doing that like over time we [TS]

02:04:05 ◼   ► introduce new API is with new thinking [TS]

02:04:07 ◼   ► and there's a new language in the mix [TS]

02:04:08 ◼   ► and it evolves and evolves and evolves [TS]

02:04:10 ◼   ► eventually you get to deprecated or just [TS]

02:04:12 ◼   ► never use the really old really weird [TS]

02:04:14 ◼   ► api's so if your starting point is the [TS]

02:04:18 ◼   ► current best modern thinking UI kit with [TS]

02:04:21 ◼   ► maybe some minor tweaks you get a lot of [TS]

02:04:23 ◼   ► the benefit of people being who are [TS]

02:04:24 ◼   ► familiar with you I kept being able to [TS]

02:04:25 ◼   ► use that because people are familiar [TS]

02:04:27 ◼   ► with uikit presumably you're somewhat [TS]

02:04:29 ◼   ► up-to-date on and don't say I only know [TS]

02:04:32 ◼   ► how to use the uikit api's introduced in [TS]

02:04:33 ◼   ► like iOS 2 and I never learned anything [TS]

02:04:36 ◼   ► after and I don't know what a closure is [TS]

02:04:37 ◼   ► and I'm really confused right I don't [TS]

02:04:39 ◼   ► know anything about all these properties [TS]

02:04:41 ◼   ► syntax and all those animations stuff [TS]

02:04:43 ◼   ► let's all tint colors I don't know what [TS]

02:04:44 ◼   ► that is of course they have to know they [TS]

02:04:45 ◼   ► have to know the modern ones too so and [TS]

02:04:47 ◼   ► that's your starting point you can bring [TS]

02:04:49 ◼   ► those people along now with the with the [TS]

02:04:51 ◼   ► whole reactor thing it's like that's not [TS]

02:04:52 ◼   ► something you can gradually add that's [TS]

02:04:53 ◼   ► kind of a paradigm shift and that is [TS]

02:04:55 ◼   ► it's a tougher sell but even that you [TS]

02:04:58 ◼   ► could you could pitch that to you know [TS]

02:05:00 ◼   ► pretend the Mac doesn't exist and it's [TS]

02:05:01 ◼   ► just UI kit eventually in the lifetime [TS]

02:05:03 ◼   ► of you I kid if you're thinking inside [TS]

02:05:05 ◼   ► Apple is that there's a better way to [TS]

02:05:06 ◼   ► design you eyes with you know whatever [TS]

02:05:09 ◼   ► reactive paradigm or whatever some [TS]

02:05:11 ◼   ► functional thing or something entirely [TS]

02:05:12 ◼   ► different they could roll that out just [TS]

02:05:14 ◼   ► in UI kit to say a bunch of new api's [TS]

02:05:17 ◼   ► are gonna be using this thing and we [TS]

02:05:18 ◼   ► have a new view system and more you know [TS]

02:05:21 ◼   ► Mac has had multiple view systems even [TS]

02:05:23 ◼   ► on Mac OS 10 it has multiple you know [TS]

02:05:25 ◼   ► head carbon and it had cocoa and they [TS]

02:05:27 ◼   ► coexisted for a while and one of them [TS]

02:05:29 ◼   ► faded away it's not impossible to have [TS]

02:05:30 ◼   ► two paradigms in the same platform and [TS]

02:05:33 ◼   ► slowly transition to another one so I [TS]

02:05:34 ◼   ► don't think anything Apple does [TS]

02:05:35 ◼   ► precludes switching to something better [TS]

02:05:38 ◼   ► but I think the main reason they won't [TS]

02:05:39 ◼   ► is there are two reasons one I'm not I [TS]

02:05:42 ◼   ► don't think Apple is convinced that [TS]

02:05:44 ◼   ► there is a better power this case you [TS]

02:05:47 ◼   ► may be convinced by convinced it like [TS]

02:05:49 ◼   ► there is a better paradigm that is [TS]

02:05:51 ◼   ► better enough to take the hit for it and [TS]

02:05:54 ◼   ► be like they can they can defer that [TS]

02:05:57 ◼   ► they could say use the current best [TS]

02:05:59 ◼   ► thinking and UI kit plus whatever the [TS]

02:06:01 ◼   ► current best thing that we don't know [TS]

02:06:01 ◼   ► about is they're doing inside Apple [TS]

02:06:03 ◼   ► right because there's always something [TS]

02:06:04 ◼   ► every year right and make that the [TS]

02:06:06 ◼   ► starting point of view new framework and [TS]

02:06:08 ◼   ► then go from there and I don't wrap this [TS]

02:06:12 ◼   ► office running along the one one final [TS]

02:06:13 ◼   ► thing I think is worth voicing [TS]

02:06:14 ◼   ► especially from the concerns of Mac [TS]

02:06:16 ◼   ► users I mentioned photos apps and and [TS]

02:06:18 ◼   ► how they feel kind of weird that's [TS]

02:06:20 ◼   ► another way that this can all go wrong [TS]

02:06:21 ◼   ► if they no matter what solution they use [TS]

02:06:23 ◼   ► if it lets experience iOS developers [TS]

02:06:28 ◼   ► target the Mac but the applications they [TS]

02:06:31 ◼   ► create are all like photos essentially [TS]

02:06:34 ◼   ► like that they feel weird and non Mac [TS]

02:06:36 ◼   ► like and are unsatisfying [TS]

02:06:37 ◼   ► I don't think that will be a very big [TS]

02:06:41 ◼   ► success because as few Mac users as [TS]

02:06:44 ◼   ► there mate as there maybe and even Mac [TS]

02:06:46 ◼   ► users who have no idea what it means to [TS]

02:06:48 ◼   ► be quote-unquote Mac type Mac like you [TS]

02:06:51 ◼   ► know people who have no idea what [TS]

02:06:52 ◼   ► electron is or no idea what makes Lac [TS]

02:06:54 ◼   ► weird they feel they feel the the [TS]

02:06:58 ◼   ► friction and the weirdness even if they [TS]

02:07:00 ◼   ► can't identify it even with something [TS]

02:07:01 ◼   ► like chrome versus Safari I think that's [TS]

02:07:03 ◼   ► a real thing that people can feel and I [TS]

02:07:07 ◼   ► and I think the Mac enthusiasts are [TS]

02:07:11 ◼   ► actually an important subset of the Mac [TS]

02:07:13 ◼   ► market at a proportion of their of their [TS]

02:07:15 ◼   ► the money that they give or whatever [TS]

02:07:17 ◼   ► rights the whole reason the Mac Pro [TS]

02:07:18 ◼   ► exists or will exist eventually and I [TS]

02:07:22 ◼   ► think that is a really it's gonna be one [TS]

02:07:26 ◼   ► of the hardest things to avoid yes let [TS]

02:07:28 ◼   ► people retarget their skills to the Mac [TS]

02:07:30 ◼   ► but how how are you gonna get them to [TS]

02:07:32 ◼   ► make applications that are satisfying [TS]

02:07:34 ◼   ► Mac applications that's a really tall [TS]

02:07:37 ◼   ► order both because iOS users don't know [TS]

02:07:39 ◼   ► how to make a satisfying Mac application [TS]

02:07:41 ◼   ► because they never have before [TS]

02:07:42 ◼   ► and because a lot of things you can do [TS]

02:07:44 ◼   ► to make it easier for them leave them [TS]

02:07:46 ◼   ► down the path to an application that is [TS]

02:07:48 ◼   ► like an iOS application that you can use [TS]

02:07:50 ◼   ► a mouse cursor with and that's not good [TS]

02:07:52 ◼   ► that's no good boss [TS]

02:07:54 ◼   ► well but I mean I would argue it's [TS]

02:07:56 ◼   ► better than not having these apps is it [TS]

02:07:57 ◼   ► though like I was saying I don't know if [TS]

02:07:59 ◼   ► it's better than not having the apps it [TS]

02:08:00 ◼   ► like is it better than just letting the [TS]

02:08:01 ◼   ► Mac platform die I would rather have a [TS]

02:08:03 ◼   ► good native 27 inch iPad pro application [TS]

02:08:06 ◼   ► than the bad iOS port to a 27 inch iMac [TS]

02:08:10 ◼   ► yet I mean like just sure well but I you [TS]

02:08:13 ◼   ► know keep in mind like whatever Mac apps [TS]

02:08:15 ◼   ► are in practice is what ends up being [TS]

02:08:19 ◼   ► you know the good Mac apps like it ends [TS]

02:08:22 ◼   ► up being the standard like I really [TS]

02:08:24 ◼   ► don't think we have a choice here I [TS]

02:08:26 ◼   ► think something like this has to happen [TS]

02:08:28 ◼   ► to keep the Mac alive and so if what if [TS]

02:08:30 ◼   ► what ends up being most Mac have people [TS]

02:08:32 ◼   ► use if those are more iOS II that will [TS]

02:08:37 ◼   ► just become what it feels like to be a [TS]

02:08:39 ◼   ► real to be a standard Mac app and that's [TS]

02:08:42 ◼   ► not what it means to be Mac life but I'm [TS]

02:08:45 ◼   ► just talking about like just straight-up [TS]

02:08:46 ◼   ► performance like that they feel laggy [TS]

02:08:48 ◼   ► and slow and not not powerful like they [TS]

02:08:52 ◼   ► don't have the features one part is a [TS]

02:08:54 ◼   ► feature set in a second is [TS]

02:08:55 ◼   ► they're that they're slow and weird and [TS]

02:08:57 ◼   ► is it because they're slow and weird [TS]

02:08:58 ◼   ► because the shim layer and they are the [TS]

02:09:00 ◼   ► missing features that we expect from a [TS]

02:09:02 ◼   ► cap because there are an iOS port and [TS]

02:09:03 ◼   ► those features don't fit or don't make [TS]

02:09:05 ◼   ► sense on iOS that's that's what I'm [TS]

02:09:07 ◼   ► talking about like and and you're [TS]

02:09:08 ◼   ► totally right to be super concerned [TS]

02:09:10 ◼   ► about that by using photos app as the [TS]

02:09:12 ◼   ► example of a cross-platform framework [TS]

02:09:14 ◼   ► but the reason why photos app on the Mac [TS]

02:09:16 ◼   ► is slow and weird and doesn't feel right [TS]

02:09:20 ◼   ► and it lacks so many features and drives [TS]

02:09:22 ◼   ► you nuts [TS]

02:09:22 ◼   ► it's because it is a terribly designed [TS]

02:09:25 ◼   ► app on so many levels and horribly [TS]

02:09:28 ◼   ► neglected all the time so it starts out [TS]

02:09:31 ◼   ► with a bad design they never change it [TS]

02:09:33 ◼   ► they never make it better in your your [TS]

02:09:35 ◼   ► explanation during our famous episode [TS]

02:09:37 ◼   ► number 223 throw the fork away was so [TS]

02:09:40 ◼   ► great so perfect the Photos app is a [TS]

02:09:43 ◼   ► terrible example of how to do [TS]

02:09:45 ◼   ► cross-platform frameworks it happens to [TS]

02:09:47 ◼   ► be built on a cross-platform framework [TS]

02:09:48 ◼   ► but it is a terrible design and that has [TS]

02:09:52 ◼   ► nothing to do with the framework it has [TS]

02:09:53 ◼   ► everything to do with the actual UI [TS]

02:09:55 ◼   ► design the flow of the app the things [TS]

02:09:58 ◼   ► like I do think it has to do with the [TS]

02:10:00 ◼   ► framework and that I know the flow in [TS]

02:10:02 ◼   ► the UI design is inherited in large part [TS]

02:10:04 ◼   ► from how photos works in iOS and then [TS]

02:10:06 ◼   ► they just added a couple little sidebars [TS]

02:10:08 ◼   ► here and there like it feels like an iOS [TS]

02:10:10 ◼   ► application in design wise no definitely [TS]

02:10:12 ◼   ► not [TS]

02:10:13 ◼   ► it is it is entirely because that is a [TS]

02:10:16 ◼   ► very badly designed app that was it's [TS]

02:10:18 ◼   ► designed by people who don't use it the [TS]

02:10:20 ◼   ► way anybody else uses it if at all and [TS]

02:10:22 ◼   ► it is designed to look good in demos not [TS]

02:10:25 ◼   ► to actually be used by human beings that [TS]

02:10:28 ◼   ► is not a problem with the framework [TS]

02:10:29 ◼   ► that's the problem with the just the [TS]

02:10:30 ◼   ► design of it it is slow and cumbersome [TS]

02:10:34 ◼   ► not because it copies iOS stuff but [TS]

02:10:36 ◼   ► because it has too many modes and too [TS]

02:10:38 ◼   ► many slow animations and it lacks [TS]

02:10:40 ◼   ► convenient keyboard shortcuts and like [TS]

02:10:42 ◼   ► but like it has those modes because [TS]

02:10:44 ◼   ► photos on iOS has to have the most [TS]

02:10:46 ◼   ► because you don't have over the room on [TS]

02:10:47 ◼   ► the screen for all that stuff so like [TS]

02:10:48 ◼   ► think about when you go to crop I'm [TS]

02:10:49 ◼   ► photos you got a little crop icon and [TS]

02:10:51 ◼   ► that or you go to like color or light [TS]

02:10:52 ◼   ► then you got all this something using [TS]

02:10:54 ◼   ► you eventually dig your way down to the [TS]

02:10:55 ◼   ► feature you want and it's a lot of taps [TS]

02:10:57 ◼   ► and why is it a lot of taps because [TS]

02:10:58 ◼   ► you're on a phone you don't have room to [TS]

02:10:59 ◼   ► have that stuff visible all the time but [TS]

02:11:01 ◼   ► you take that UI paradigm and you bring [TS]

02:11:03 ◼   ► it to the Mac and it's still a lot of [TS]

02:11:05 ◼   ► tap seeing like why you making this a [TS]

02:11:06 ◼   ► lot of apps like well [TS]

02:11:08 ◼   ► sort of how the codebase works and we [TS]

02:11:10 ◼   ► kind of added a sidebar here and there [TS]

02:11:12 ◼   ► but we didn't want to change too much [TS]

02:11:13 ◼   ► like isn't that the whole thing we don't [TS]

02:11:14 ◼   ► to change too much and we get a Mac [TS]

02:11:16 ◼   ► application out of it and it's like you [TS]

02:11:17 ◼   ► should have changed more that isn't the [TS]

02:11:19 ◼   ► whole thing like first of all the fact [TS]

02:11:21 ◼   ► that they use something called like UX [TS]

02:11:23 ◼   ► collectionview [TS]

02:11:24 ◼   ► doesn't make the design bad the fact [TS]

02:11:26 ◼   ► that their views are using UX color [TS]

02:11:28 ◼   ► instead of NS color and UI color that [TS]

02:11:30 ◼   ► doesn't like the that's what we're [TS]

02:11:32 ◼   ► asking for here is like give us like [TS]

02:11:34 ◼   ► stock widgets and stuff that we can use [TS]

02:11:36 ◼   ► them of the place but but the actual [TS]

02:11:37 ◼   ► interface layout and the choices they [TS]

02:11:40 ◼   ► made with all these different modes and [TS]

02:11:41 ◼   ► everything that's just a bad design off [TS]

02:11:44 ◼   ► for the Mac period and that has nothing [TS]

02:11:46 ◼   ► to do with the framework that is [TS]

02:11:47 ◼   ► entirely to do with laziness and bad [TS]

02:11:49 ◼   ► design but nobody doesn't have to do [TS]

02:11:50 ◼   ► with the framework it has to do it has [TS]

02:11:52 ◼   ► to do with the fact that the code base [TS]

02:11:53 ◼   ► came from an iOS app you started with an [TS]

02:11:55 ◼   ► iOS app and you're like I would like [TS]

02:11:57 ◼   ► this app on the Mac so that's you start [TS]

02:11:58 ◼   ► with that code base and that code base [TS]

02:12:00 ◼   ► works the way it works on the phone and [TS]

02:12:02 ◼   ► so you don't want it completely like [TS]

02:12:03 ◼   ► you're you're motivated not to change [TS]

02:12:05 ◼   ► too much about it right so it's yeah [TS]

02:12:07 ◼   ► it's not the framework it's not the fact [TS]

02:12:08 ◼   ► to use if you had written it from [TS]

02:12:09 ◼   ► scratch with the same framework as a Mac [TS]

02:12:11 ◼   ► app you would be fine but I my fear of [TS]

02:12:14 ◼   ► getting at here is that people have iOS [TS]

02:12:16 ◼   ► applications that they want to [TS]

02:12:17 ◼   ► essentially port to the Mac and they're [TS]

02:12:19 ◼   ► not starting from scratch and figuring [TS]

02:12:21 ◼   ► out how to make a good mac app they're [TS]

02:12:23 ◼   ► starting from their iOS app and mutating [TS]

02:12:25 ◼   ► it until they feel like it's more or [TS]

02:12:28 ◼   ► less a madcap and so the Photos app [TS]

02:12:30 ◼   ► feels like the iOS Photos app mutated [TS]

02:12:33 ◼   ► just enough to masquerade as a Mac [TS]

02:12:35 ◼   ► application and you're totally right [TS]

02:12:37 ◼   ► that's not the fault of the framework [TS]

02:12:38 ◼   ► it's not the fault of you even you [TS]

02:12:40 ◼   ► execute or anything like that it is the [TS]

02:12:41 ◼   ► fault of the fact that they that it is [TS]

02:12:43 ◼   ► essentially a port and that you start [TS]

02:12:45 ◼   ► with one code base and you change it and [TS]

02:12:47 ◼   ► you know you don't start over from [TS]

02:12:49 ◼   ► scratch right and way too long here but [TS]

02:12:52 ◼   ► but one of the things that Craig [TS]

02:12:54 ◼   ► Hockenberry was pointing out about like [TS]

02:12:55 ◼   ► Twitter if ik where icon factory wrote [TS]

02:12:58 ◼   ► their own framework to basically be [TS]

02:13:00 ◼   ► UIKit on the Mac what was called [TS]

02:13:01 ◼   ► chameleon or something yep right so they [TS]

02:13:04 ◼   ► have experience doing that hey let's [TS]

02:13:05 ◼   ► write a framework on the Mac but the API [TS]

02:13:06 ◼   ► has all look like UI kit they did that [TS]

02:13:08 ◼   ► and they also did let's make a mac [TS]

02:13:12 ◼   ► version of an iOS application and we'll [TS]

02:13:14 ◼   ► do it by cleanly and slightly painfully [TS]

02:13:17 ◼   ► because you know programmers aren't [TS]

02:13:18 ◼   ► perfect separating the internals from [TS]

02:13:21 ◼   ► the X [TS]

02:13:22 ◼   ► which all programmers are supposed to be [TS]

02:13:23 ◼   ► doing but until you actually try to [TS]

02:13:24 ◼   ► separate them with a big scissors you [TS]

02:13:26 ◼   ► realize how much your crap has leaked [TS]

02:13:28 ◼   ► into each other like it's life right [TS]

02:13:29 ◼   ► and according to Craig the second [TS]

02:13:32 ◼   ► approach for them anyway work better for [TS]

02:13:35 ◼   ► Twitter if ik where what they reused [TS]

02:13:37 ◼   ► across the iOS and the mac app is all [TS]

02:13:40 ◼   ► the faceless stuff but the UI for the [TS]

02:13:42 ◼   ► mac app is written totally from scratch [TS]

02:13:46 ◼   ► the only part that shared is the inside [TS]

02:13:48 ◼   ► now they wrote it from I don't even know [TS]

02:13:49 ◼   ► what they used they could have written [TS]

02:13:50 ◼   ► it from scratch using you know the [TS]

02:13:52 ◼   ► chameleon thing they could have written [TS]

02:13:53 ◼   ► their scratch using app kit they could [TS]

02:13:54 ◼   ► have written scratch using a [TS]

02:13:55 ◼   ► hypothetical H eye kit but the point is [TS]

02:13:57 ◼   ► they wrote it from scratch they didn't [TS]

02:13:58 ◼   ► take the interface from the phone poured [TS]

02:14:02 ◼   ► it and start tweaking it but that that I [TS]

02:14:05 ◼   ► think will be a temptation it's you know [TS]

02:14:07 ◼   ► sort of the equivalent of shovel where [TS]

02:14:09 ◼   ► that will be a temptation if Apple does [TS]

02:14:10 ◼   ► a good job making that easy and in fact [TS]

02:14:12 ◼   ► how about will done with that look I [TS]

02:14:13 ◼   ► went from your iPhone application and [TS]

02:14:14 ◼   ► then I just move two things around and [TS]

02:14:15 ◼   ► add a sidebar and set up a few menu [TS]

02:14:17 ◼   ► items voila [TS]

02:14:18 ◼   ► Mac app and I'm gonna say no not a not a [TS]

02:14:22 ◼   ► Mac out thanks to our sponsors this week [TS]

02:14:25 ◼   ► Casper Squarespace and hellofresh we'll [TS]

02:14:28 ◼   ► see you next week now the show is over [TS]

02:14:33 ◼   ► they didn't even mean to begin [TS]

02:14:37 ◼   ► it was accidental oh it was accidental [TS]

02:14:42 ◼   ► Johnny research Marco and Casey wouldn't [TS]

02:14:46 ◼   ► let him cuz it was accidentally was [TS]

02:14:50 ◼   ► accidental and you can find the show [TS]

02:14:54 ◼   ► notes at a CAS URL is s so that's Casey [TS]

02:15:07 ◼   ► less and a are Co a RM ante Marco Arment [TS]

02:15:13 ◼   ► SI r AC USA Syracuse [TS]

02:15:30 ◼   ► good thing so much stuff happened in the [TS]

02:15:33 ◼   ► seven days ago yeah exactly so Marco you [TS]

02:15:38 ◼   ► said you had watched the first two [TS]

02:15:40 ◼   ► episodes of the Grand Tour [TS]

02:15:41 ◼   ► I have yeah you know what it's pretty [TS]

02:15:43 ◼   ► good I feel like the in studio segments [TS]

02:15:48 ◼   ► are slightly less garbagey than they [TS]

02:15:53 ◼   ► were last season oh yeah to clarify I [TS]

02:15:55 ◼   ► skip the house pretty bad not like I [TS]

02:15:59 ◼   ► don't skip like the little bumpers to [TS]

02:16:01 ◼   ► their second but like when they like sit [TS]

02:16:03 ◼   ► down with a celebrity or something I [TS]

02:16:04 ◼   ► skip that but I always did that with the [TS]

02:16:06 ◼   ► with the BBC show also yeah the the BBC [TS]

02:16:10 ◼   ► show the in studio segments were pretty [TS]

02:16:14 ◼   ► decent if not good but man the Grand [TS]

02:16:18 ◼   ► Tour in the studio is bad outside of the [TS]

02:16:21 ◼   ► studio I think the films were there [TS]

02:16:23 ◼   ► actually out in the world doing things I [TS]

02:16:25 ◼   ► think those are 80 to 90 percent of what [TS]

02:16:28 ◼   ► they were for Top Gear and I'm trying [TS]

02:16:30 ◼   ► very hard not to spoil anything directly [TS]

02:16:32 ◼   ► for John but my goodness of studio stuff [TS]

02:16:35 ◼   ► is just nothing I feel like all I'm [TS]

02:16:37 ◼   ► doing is cringing the entire time [TS]

02:16:39 ◼   ► they're in the studio oh absolutely no [TS]

02:16:42 ◼   ► question like the studio stuff is still [TS]

02:16:43 ◼   ► is as cringe-worthy as it was in season [TS]

02:16:47 ◼   ► one but season 2 episodes 1 & 2 if you [TS]

02:16:51 ◼   ► skip the studio Long's parts and you [TS]

02:16:53 ◼   ► just pay attention to the rest of it you [TS]

02:16:54 ◼   ► know film segments I'd say it's it's [TS]

02:16:57 ◼   ► very good very fun and you know the last [TS]

02:17:00 ◼   ► few seasons of Top Gear were that they [TS]

02:17:01 ◼   ► were on you know they were there was [TS]

02:17:03 ◼   ► like a bit of a decline in those two and [TS]

02:17:05 ◼   ► I would say the the current season of [TS]

02:17:08 ◼   ► whatever this is Grand Tour is on on par [TS]

02:17:13 ◼   ► with or better than the last few seasons [TS]

02:17:15 ◼   ► the top here they did I think that's [TS]

02:17:17 ◼   ► fair you know one of the Instituto [TS]

02:17:19 ◼   ► segments that I actually kind of liked [TS]

02:17:21 ◼   ► and I think is the strength that they [TS]

02:17:22 ◼   ► should be leaning on in Grand Tour but [TS]

02:17:24 ◼   ► in season 1 apparently they did not I [TS]

02:17:26 ◼   ► always liked the the new segments [TS]

02:17:28 ◼   ► because I guess because it's the most [TS]

02:17:29 ◼   ► like a pod yeah like they would they [TS]

02:17:31 ◼   ► would have a little TV screen up there [TS]

02:17:33 ◼   ► to show an image and they'd be like [TS]

02:17:34 ◼   ► there's quick hits on the news oh you [TS]

02:17:36 ◼   ► know Volkswagens coming out with a new [TS]

02:17:38 ◼   ► car what do you think of this and they [TS]

02:17:39 ◼   ► all just have something snarky to say [TS]

02:17:40 ◼   ► about it in much the same way we do on a [TS]

02:17:42 ◼   ► podcast what do you think of Bonita [TS]

02:17:43 ◼   ► they talk about right and there's no [TS]

02:17:45 ◼   ► celebrity involved and you can't say [TS]

02:17:47 ◼   ► they're not trying to be funny because [TS]

02:17:48 ◼   ► they are they're trying to be funny and [TS]

02:17:49 ◼   ► very often the snarky lines were written [TS]

02:17:51 ◼   ► ahead of time clearly right like it [TS]

02:17:53 ◼   ► wasn't all spontaneous or whatever but [TS]

02:17:54 ◼   ► that lets them be them in a way in the [TS]

02:17:58 ◼   ► same way that they would out of the [TS]

02:17:59 ◼   ► studio just sort of joking around with [TS]

02:18:01 ◼   ► each other about a topic that they all [TS]

02:18:03 ◼   ► have strong feelings about you think all [TS]

02:18:05 ◼   ► Porsche 911s look the same you are into [TS]

02:18:07 ◼   ► trucks you are like whatever like their [TS]

02:18:09 ◼   ► personalities and their enthusiasm for [TS]

02:18:11 ◼   ► cars which you know is my always big [TS]

02:18:12 ◼   ► thing with with top gear comes through [TS]

02:18:14 ◼   ► in those segments and their studio [TS]

02:18:16 ◼   ► segments and they're fine and even some [TS]

02:18:18 ◼   ► of the celebrity ones depending on the [TS]

02:18:19 ◼   ► celebrity passable but anything where [TS]

02:18:21 ◼   ► it's like we're not going to talk about [TS]

02:18:23 ◼   ► car news we're not gonna talk about cars [TS]

02:18:25 ◼   ► we're not gonna talk to a celebrity [TS]

02:18:26 ◼   ► we're gonna do like a funny skit with [TS]

02:18:28 ◼   ► each other did not work in the green [TS]

02:18:31 ◼   ► like just just like because because like [TS]

02:18:34 ◼   ► what's left then then it's just like a [TS]

02:18:36 ◼   ► bunch of people who are like are they [TS]

02:18:38 ◼   ► trying to be Saturday Night Live very [TS]

02:18:39 ◼   ► often they'd be trying to make a joke [TS]

02:18:41 ◼   ► they'd be like huh nah isn't that funny [TS]

02:18:42 ◼   ► and they'd be like making fun of like [TS]

02:18:44 ◼   ► you know children with cancer to be like [TS]

02:18:46 ◼   ► no it's not it's not funny it's like but [TS]

02:18:49 ◼   ► it was it was funny when I was a boy in [TS]

02:18:51 ◼   ► 1942 it was like just guys like you [TS]

02:18:55 ◼   ► can't talk to somebody before you do [TS]

02:18:57 ◼   ► these segments like it's not or whatever [TS]

02:18:59 ◼   ► the one but they were making fun of gay [TS]

02:19:01 ◼   ► people are hurting ice cream or [TS]

02:19:02 ◼   ► something ice like just talk to one [TS]

02:19:04 ◼   ► person before you plan a 15-minute [TS]

02:19:07 ◼   ► segment that you think is gonna be [TS]

02:19:08 ◼   ► hilarious but yeah it's it's not and [TS]

02:19:10 ◼   ► it's no good and anyway yeah there's a [TS]

02:19:13 ◼   ► lot more of that it's definitely like [TS]

02:19:15 ◼   ► older dudes who think that some of this [TS]

02:19:19 ◼   ► stuff is funny and it's just not funny [TS]

02:19:20 ◼   ► anymore and the other thing unless on [TS]

02:19:23 ◼   ► the second episode they official maybe [TS]

02:19:26 ◼   ► they talked about in the first but in [TS]

02:19:27 ◼   ► the second episode was the first time [TS]

02:19:28 ◼   ► they really did a hot lap if I recall [TS]

02:19:30 ◼   ► correctly and they have ditched the [TS]

02:19:33 ◼   ► American and they said something like [TS]

02:19:35 ◼   ► yeah well you know it didn't really work [TS]

02:19:36 ◼   ► out and nobody liked it [TS]

02:19:37 ◼   ► and so there was a at least a modicum of [TS]

02:19:40 ◼   ► like self-awareness there but they bring [TS]

02:19:43 ◼   ► on a woman some woman and they say she's [TS]

02:19:47 ◼   ► a really great driver and the reason I [TS]

02:19:49 ◼   ► haven't named this woman is because they [TS]

02:19:51 ◼   ► didn't name her like did you did you [TS]

02:19:54 ◼   ► watch this Marco did you notice that as [TS]

02:19:56 ◼   ► well yeah [TS]

02:19:57 ◼   ► like the new Stig kind of but right that [TS]

02:19:59 ◼   ► was I I assume that was part of some [TS]

02:20:02 ◼   ► kind of bit that's gonna play out over [TS]

02:20:03 ◼   ► time but I thought that was weird too it [TS]

02:20:05 ◼   ► just seemed like I don't know if [TS]

02:20:08 ◼   ► inappropriate is the right word but just [TS]

02:20:10 ◼   ► not funny it seemed like you know [TS]

02:20:13 ◼   ► 50-plus year old guys trying to be funny [TS]

02:20:15 ◼   ► in a way that in the year almost 2018 [TS]

02:20:20 ◼   ► really isn't funny anymore [TS]

02:20:22 ◼   ► and I don't think this is me being like [TS]

02:20:24 ◼   ► a stick-in-the-mud I don't think this is [TS]

02:20:26 ◼   ► me being a social justice warrior it's [TS]

02:20:29 ◼   ► just it's I'm trying to be better about [TS]

02:20:31 ◼   ► being aware of these sorts of things and [TS]

02:20:33 ◼   ► and so now that I am more aware of these [TS]

02:20:36 ◼   ► sorts of things when they don't name [TS]

02:20:40 ◼   ► this woman driver like they praised her [TS]

02:20:42 ◼   ► but they don't name her it's just like [TS]

02:20:44 ◼   ► come on guy is really this is really a [TS]

02:20:47 ◼   ► thing and just like you said John like [TS]

02:20:49 ◼   ► nobody told you this was not cool nobody [TS]

02:20:53 ◼   ► not a one not a single person said that [TS]

02:20:55 ◼   ► this was not cool and so i-i've never [TS]

02:20:58 ◼   ► fast forwarded on a and on an initial [TS]

02:21:00 ◼   ► viewing I've never fast forwarded any of [TS]

02:21:02 ◼   ► the top gear of the Grand Tour but well [TS]

02:21:04 ◼   ► you're missing out I am well that's the [TS]

02:21:07 ◼   ► thing I was about to say I am paying [TS]

02:21:09 ◼   ► less and less and less attention to the [TS]

02:21:11 ◼   ► in-studio segments that being said the [TS]

02:21:15 ◼   ► the film's I thought were really good [TS]

02:21:17 ◼   ► particularly this last one and again I'm [TS]

02:21:20 ◼   ► trying not to spoil it but it involves [TS]

02:21:22 ◼   ► Marco and John's either current or old [TS]

02:21:25 ◼   ► stomping grounds that one I thought was [TS]

02:21:28 ◼   ► really good and enjoyable so thus to [TS]

02:21:30 ◼   ► films are great but Godley the studio [TS]

02:21:33 ◼   ► stuff I'm running out of patience for it [TS]

02:21:36 ◼   ► yeah there is no question in my mind [TS]

02:21:38 ◼   ► that if the show was just the films and [TS]

02:21:42 ◼   ► each episode was like you know I guess I [TS]

02:21:43 ◼   ► guess be like 20 minutes long or 25 [TS]

02:21:45 ◼   ► minutes long and instead of like an hour [TS]

02:21:46 ◼   ► if it was just that it would be a better [TS]

02:21:49 ◼   ► show I mean I'm looking forward to the [TS]

02:21:52 ◼   ► to the rest of the episodes from the [TS]

02:21:55 ◼   ► season but I might do the unthinkable in [TS]

02:21:58 ◼   ► Paula Marco and just skip the in studio [TS]

02:22:01 ◼   ► segments because hoo boy I give you [TS]

02:22:03 ◼   ► permission it is a much more enjoyable [TS]

02:22:05 ◼   ► show if you do that [TS]

02:22:14 ◼   ► yeah I swear look some titles here [TS]

02:22:17 ◼   ► we had some good ones this week as I get [TS]

02:22:19 ◼   ► older I guess worse yeah that's pretty [TS]

02:22:21 ◼   ► good [TS]

02:22:21 ◼   ► I like hotbox with knobs hot box with [TS]

02:22:23 ◼   ► Dobson's little boxes does the USB pre [TS]

02:22:26 ◼   ► to get hot no my description is not I've [TS]

02:22:32 ◼   ► never had one of those boxes I just [TS]

02:22:33 ◼   ► assumed they got hot but no hot box hot [TS]

02:22:36 ◼   ► box you guys don't know that movie do [TS]

02:22:37 ◼   ► you nope Casey did your boy watch it [TS]

02:22:40 ◼   ► Marko might like it yeah I mean my vote [TS]

02:22:42 ◼   ► my final vote is either for older worse [TS]

02:22:44 ◼   ► or hot box of knobs mm-hmm I think I'm [TS]

02:22:47 ◼   ► both hot box with knobs definitely is as [TS]

02:22:49 ◼   ► a musical ring to it and seems like an [TS]

02:22:51 ◼   ► ATP title but now now that I learned the [TS]

02:22:54 ◼   ► boxes don't get hot I like it was I mean [TS]

02:22:58 ◼   ► some of them do like the ones too [TS]

02:23:01 ◼   ► speaking if you want stuff get hot oh my [TS]

02:23:04 ◼   ► god yes you you do have some hot boxes [TS]

02:23:09 ◼   ► with knobs all right yeah cuz it's like [TS]

02:23:11 ◼   ► a you know it's a Class A B amp the [TS]

02:23:13 ◼   ► smaller ones like I had one that was a [TS]

02:23:14 ◼   ► Class A my god like even just a [TS]

02:23:17 ◼   ► headphone amp it's Class A gets [TS]

02:23:18 ◼   ► ridiculously hot yeah I don't that [TS]

02:23:21 ◼   ► patate box with knobs over the top [TS]

02:23:23 ◼   ► fantastic mr. Fox watch it watch it with [TS]

02:23:26 ◼   ► the kids it's a good kid movie even [TS]

02:23:28 ◼   ► Declan might like it heard of this and [TS]

02:23:30 ◼   ► then you'll see where I am saying to [TS]

02:23:32 ◼   ► recommend that because in the hot box [TS]

02:23:33 ◼   ► features in the movie isn't that a [TS]

02:23:35 ◼   ► euphemism for like farting in bed yes [TS]

02:23:38 ◼   ► I'm glad you caught up the car that as [TS]

02:23:40 ◼   ► well oh that's not just hotbox it's also [TS]

02:23:44 ◼   ► like when you like smoke pot in the car [TS]

02:23:46 ◼   ► with the windows up what do you call it [TS]

02:23:48 ◼   ► Dutch oven come on chat room [TS]

02:23:50 ◼   ► that's no you're right you're right you [TS]

02:23:53 ◼   ► know we don't need to go to the chat [TS]

02:23:54 ◼   ► room for fart confirmation Casey is [TS]

02:23:56 ◼   ► there with the oh when it comes to farts [TS]

02:23:58 ◼   ► and I know what I'm talking about - [TS]

02:24:05 ◼   ► farts ever stop being funny I don't [TS]

02:24:06 ◼   ► think so it was like humor is rooted in [TS]

02:24:08 ◼   ► just like what makes people like [TS]

02:24:10 ◼   ► uncomfortable like it like in a certain [TS]

02:24:13 ◼   ► way and like farts are you're so against [TS]

02:24:16 ◼   ► the facade that we are not animals we [TS]

02:24:19 ◼   ► are we are civilized people and then [TS]

02:24:22 ◼   ► like this bad smell and gas comes out of [TS]

02:24:24 ◼   ► our butts like that's that's going to be [TS]

02:24:25 ◼   ► funny like fuck it and and like it's so [TS]

02:24:27 ◼   ► taboo [TS]

02:24:28 ◼   ► and think and it makes the whole room [TS]

02:24:30 ◼   ► smell bad for like ten minutes and so [TS]

02:24:32 ◼   ► it's like that's like that's going to be [TS]

02:24:34 ◼   ► if that's always gonna be funny across [TS]

02:24:36 ◼   ► all cultures across all times because we [TS]

02:24:38 ◼   ► try so hard to pretend like we're not [TS]

02:24:40 ◼   ► animals with butts and poop and stuff [TS]

02:24:42 ◼   ► and then this reminds us anyway that's [TS]

02:24:45 ◼   ► my theory on farts good they can think [TS]

02:24:48 ◼   ► we're still alive yeah good you to make [TS]

02:24:50 ◼   ► an app about that I hear they're all the [TS]

02:24:52 ◼   ► rage yeah right [TS]

02:24:52 ◼   ► rage yeah right [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► um but yeah there's no there's no [TS]

01:00:03 ◼   ► perfect solution so I you know even if [TS]

01:00:04 ◼   ► even if they change it to do that and I [TS]

01:00:06 ◼   ► heard some good suggestions on Twitter I [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► forget who's just maybe was Marco maybe [TS]

01:00:09 ◼   ► was someone else like change the color [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► of the battery meter to like purple or I [TS]

01:00:14 ◼   ► don't know they already use red and [TS]

01:00:15 ◼   ► green and yellow but some other colors [TS]

01:00:17 ◼   ► show like it's not just that your [TS]

01:00:19 ◼   ► battery is like lower in the middle but [TS]

01:00:21 ◼   ► we found out that your battery is [TS]

01:00:22 ◼   ► underperforming and to what case you [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► said at the beginning of this your [TS]

01:00:26 ◼   ► battery doesn't give up it's just it [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► just is not capable of delivering either [TS]

01:00:30 ◼   ► the volts of the amps that are required [TS]

01:00:31 ◼   ► by the CPU and the CPU has met has [TS]

01:00:33 ◼   ► things that cause it you know or not the [TS]

01:00:35 ◼   ► CPB like they're parts of the [TS]

01:00:36 ◼   ► electronics a look if my voltage or [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► current or both drop below some [TS]

01:00:40 ◼   ► threshold game over right and that's [TS]

01:00:42 ◼   ► what's happening so the battery is there [TS]

01:00:44 ◼   ► dutifully pumping out as much energy [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► that can on the CPU is like now sorry [TS]

01:00:47 ◼   ► it's game over [TS]

01:00:48 ◼   ► can't do it everything goes black um not [TS]

01:00:50 ◼   ► that really matters the details but [TS]

01:00:51 ◼   ► anyway that's that's that's what's [TS]

01:00:53 ◼   ► happening and you know the the if you [TS]

01:00:57 ◼   ► want to get on Apple for doing a thing [TS]

01:01:00 ◼   ► that you know what you know five why [TS]

01:01:03 ◼   ► this down to like what is the root cause [TS]

01:01:05 ◼   ► here you could get to the batteries not [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► easily replaceable but you know it's not [TS]

01:01:09 ◼   ► that expensive to replace it you could [TS]

01:01:12 ◼   ► get to the size of the battery you could [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► get to how long if you use your phone [TS]

01:01:15 ◼   ► like a regular person how long does your [TS]

01:01:17 ◼   ► battery last like the planned [TS]

01:01:18 ◼   ► obsolescence thing is I feel like [TS]

01:01:20 ◼   ► different than the the perception that [TS]

01:01:23 ◼   ► Apple is doing you know evil thing to [TS]

01:01:25 ◼   ► make you buy a new phone because planned [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► obsolescence you could say they make a [TS]

01:01:28 ◼   ► sealed phone with a battery that will be [TS]

01:01:30 ◼   ► crappy after two years and they they [TS]

01:01:32 ◼   ► know that all those numbers they know [TS]

01:01:34 ◼   ► how long it will last they know that [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► it's sealed so on and so forth [TS]

01:01:36 ◼   ► isn't that planned obsolescence because [TS]

01:01:38 ◼   ► this phone is released to you and they [TS]

01:01:40 ◼   ► know the plan is that if you use this [TS]

01:01:42 ◼   ► like a regular phone it will be a much [TS]

01:01:45 ◼   ► worse phone in two years and that's [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► essentially their plan they couldn't [TS]

01:01:49 ◼   ► make a phone that becomes a much worse [TS]

01:01:51 ◼   ► phone in a week they could make a plan a [TS]

01:01:53 ◼   ► phone that becomes much worse one in [TS]

01:01:54 ◼   ► five years where have they chosen to [TS]

01:01:57 ◼   ► draw that line is wherever they don't [TS]

01:01:58 ◼   ► know if it's two years we're just making [TS]

01:01:59 ◼   ► a number but that is a design choice and [TS]

01:02:01 ◼   ► this brings me to a thing that has been [TS]

01:02:03 ◼   ► buried in our show notes for a while [TS]

01:02:04 ◼   ► that I will now hoist up because it is [TS]

01:02:06 ◼   ► relevant this is a YouTube video from [TS]

01:02:09 ◼   ► cut one of the things I hated most about [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► YouTube is how hard [TS]

01:02:12 ◼   ► to find the stupid date from September [TS]

01:02:14 ◼   ► 1st 2017 this is a another typical [TS]

01:02:18 ◼   ► sensationally titled thing like all the [TS]

01:02:19 ◼   ► articles today about you know new [TS]

01:02:21 ◼   ► information reveals that Apple is just [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► as deceptive as your crazy uncle always [TS]

01:02:25 ◼   ► said no that's not what it confirms at [TS]

01:02:26 ◼   ► all anybody is Apple ruining your max [TS]

01:02:29 ◼   ► performance question mark isn't that [TS]

01:02:31 ◼   ► definitely great a quick baby title [TS]

01:02:33 ◼   ► that's like every Doug DeNiro [TS]

01:02:35 ◼   ► title ever his a yeah yes his his are [TS]

01:02:39 ◼   ► boring because there are two same the [TS]

01:02:41 ◼   ► number one the number one pinned a [TS]

01:02:44 ◼   ► comment on this is Apple ruining your [TS]

01:02:45 ◼   ► max performance spoiler alert yes [TS]

01:02:48 ◼   ► this article is about thermal throttling [TS]

01:02:52 ◼   ► on Macs which actually Marco talked [TS]

01:02:54 ◼   ► about a little bit although he surmised [TS]

01:02:56 ◼   ► it for Thermo based like when you [TS]

01:02:57 ◼   ► plugged in your external monitor at the [TS]

01:02:59 ◼   ► beach house like the how it slowed down [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► the clocks on your your MacBook Pro am I [TS]

01:03:03 ◼   ► remembering there right yeah this is [TS]

01:03:04 ◼   ► this is a pretty a pretty significant [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► limitation of the 2017 MacBook Pro [TS]

01:03:09 ◼   ► actually and this is not just the this [TS]

01:03:11 ◼   ► house was the NYMEX [TS]

01:03:13 ◼   ► right so this is another case where [TS]

01:03:14 ◼   ► again the sensational headline would [TS]

01:03:17 ◼   ► make you think that Apple is inserting [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► code that mean this isn't about making [TS]

01:03:20 ◼   ► you buy a new Mac but apples and certain [TS]

01:03:22 ◼   ► komen says your computer could be faster [TS]

01:03:24 ◼   ► but we're going to do something in [TS]

01:03:27 ◼   ► software to make it not faster and [TS]

01:03:28 ◼   ► withhold the performance from you [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► because we're evil Apple and we do this [TS]

01:03:31 ◼   ► for insert reason that doesn't make any [TS]

01:03:32 ◼   ► sense because obviously as Gruber points [TS]

01:03:35 ◼   ► out and as many people point out like [TS]

01:03:36 ◼   ► people think it's an apples interest to [TS]

01:03:38 ◼   ► make you buy I won't buy a new phone but [TS]

01:03:40 ◼   ► it is not an apples interest to make you [TS]

01:03:42 ◼   ► buy a new phone by sabotaging your [TS]

01:03:44 ◼   ► current iPhone because that will just [TS]

01:03:46 ◼   ► make you feel bad about iPhones it'll [TS]

01:03:48 ◼   ► make you want to buy a different phone [TS]

01:03:49 ◼   ► but anyway setting that aside logic [TS]

01:03:50 ◼   ► doesn't factor in like again perception [TS]

01:03:52 ◼   ► doesn't matter that's not the logic it's [TS]

01:03:53 ◼   ► not enter into it the the reason so many [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► Mac's thermal throttling if you watch [TS]

01:03:58 ◼   ► this video this is about like gaming [TS]

01:04:01 ◼   ► performance on an iMac or actually a [TS]

01:04:04 ◼   ► MacBook as well maybe it's both I forget [TS]

01:04:06 ◼   ► anyway he puts it in like a freezer and [TS]

01:04:09 ◼   ► runs the benchmark and having out of the [TS]

01:04:11 ◼   ► freezer too so you know all these sort [TS]

01:04:13 ◼   ► of temperature things look I'm I'm not [TS]

01:04:14 ◼   ► I'm not making this up look performance [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► is here but then as things we're not [TS]

01:04:18 ◼   ► before and it goes down you can see this [TS]

01:04:19 ◼   ► stair step pattern and the graphs of [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► what your frame rate is and then you put [TS]

01:04:23 ◼   ► it in the freezer and you don't see that [TS]

01:04:24 ◼   ► like it's pretty clear that [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► things and inside this computer run at [TS]

01:04:27 ◼   ► Marlys full speed until it gets kind of [TS]

01:04:30 ◼   ► hot and sweaty in there and the [TS]

01:04:32 ◼   ► mechanisms inside the computer that are [TS]

01:04:34 ◼   ► there to protect the silicon from you [TS]

01:04:36 ◼   ► know melting itself say whoa whoa whoa [TS]

01:04:38 ◼   ► let's start slowing things down and it [TS]

01:04:39 ◼   ► cranks down the clock speed and this [TS]

01:04:42 ◼   ► doesn't have to do with battery life [TS]

01:04:44 ◼   ► this has to do with like performance and [TS]

01:04:46 ◼   ► I would say that you know again Apple [TS]

01:04:49 ◼   ► it's not doing a malicious thing to make [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► your computer bad because they are evil [TS]

01:04:52 ◼   ► you know rubbing their hands together [TS]

01:04:53 ◼   ► villains twirling their moustaches but [TS]

01:04:56 ◼   ► they did design a computer they did [TS]

01:04:58 ◼   ► design a computer in which if you play a [TS]

01:05:00 ◼   ► game on it and you know in a certain [TS]

01:05:03 ◼   ► reasonable ambient temperature for human [TS]

01:05:05 ◼   ► kind of room eventually gets so hot that [TS]

01:05:08 ◼   ► the mechanisms that protect the silicon [TS]

01:05:10 ◼   ► will kick in and it will start [TS]

01:05:11 ◼   ► throttling down an Apple design that [TS]

01:05:13 ◼   ► computer right now is it a manufacturing [TS]

01:05:15 ◼   ► defect did they put it together wrong is [TS]

01:05:18 ◼   ► the thermal paste not working is the [TS]

01:05:20 ◼   ► heat pipe not working right or are they [TS]

01:05:22 ◼   ► all like that or are they all like that [TS]

01:05:24 ◼   ► after a certain number of years and then [TS]

01:05:26 ◼   ► the beginning they're not like that [TS]

01:05:27 ◼   ► whatever the thing is this is a product [TS]

01:05:30 ◼   ► that Apple made and you are not getting [TS]

01:05:31 ◼   ► all the performance you would hope to [TS]

01:05:34 ◼   ► get out of it that you could get out of [TS]

01:05:35 ◼   ► it if it had better cooling and same [TS]

01:05:37 ◼   ► thing with the plugging the external [TS]

01:05:38 ◼   ► monitor whether that is a sort of [TS]

01:05:39 ◼   ► programmatic when the external Morrow's [TS]

01:05:41 ◼   ► plugged in just throttle down [TS]

01:05:42 ◼   ► immediately because we know there's [TS]

01:05:43 ◼   ► gonna be thermal issues or whether it [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► just so happens that as soon as you plug [TS]

01:05:46 ◼   ► in the external monitors it immediately [TS]

01:05:47 ◼   ► trips the thermal thing and it drops it [TS]

01:05:49 ◼   ► down either way apples ability to [TS]

01:05:53 ◼   ► extract heat away from the heat [TS]

01:05:55 ◼   ► sensitive components is inadequate to [TS]

01:05:58 ◼   ► allow those components to run at their [TS]

01:06:00 ◼   ► top rated speed all the time and that is [TS]

01:06:02 ◼   ► a design choice by Apple or a design [TS]

01:06:04 ◼   ► flaw from Apple or ever you want to [TS]

01:06:05 ◼   ► phrase it in no case is it malicious but [TS]

01:06:08 ◼   ► it is a real fact of the products and [TS]

01:06:10 ◼   ► you know another reason we're all well [TS]

01:06:12 ◼   ► I'm waiting for a Mac Pro is like you [TS]

01:06:15 ◼   ► you know it's a compromise that you may [TS]

01:06:16 ◼   ► say well that compromise allows it to be [TS]

01:06:18 ◼   ► thinner and lighter especially with [TS]

01:06:19 ◼   ► laptop with an iMac it's harder to [TS]

01:06:21 ◼   ► justify saying yeah yeah it is thin back [TS]

01:06:23 ◼   ► there but does it really need to be but [TS]

01:06:25 ◼   ► we want to be sleek and elegant whatever [TS]

01:06:27 ◼   ► these these are real you know and and [TS]

01:06:30 ◼   ► say this this is like the phone with [TS]

01:06:32 ◼   ► like oh they chose to put a battery in [TS]

01:06:34 ◼   ► there that maybe if it was a bigger [TS]

01:06:36 ◼   ► battery you'd have more Headroom and you [TS]

01:06:38 ◼   ► wouldn't have [TS]

01:06:38 ◼   ► to charge it full as much and you could [TS]

01:06:40 ◼   ► you know have have more buffer on either [TS]

01:06:41 ◼   ► side of it sort of use the middle part [TS]

01:06:43 ◼   ► of the battery like Marco's Tesla does [TS]

01:06:44 ◼   ► or they could buy a batteries from a [TS]

01:06:46 ◼   ► different manufacturer or they could [TS]

01:06:47 ◼   ► even like there are things you can do to [TS]

01:06:49 ◼   ► design the phone to try to avoid this [TS]

01:06:51 ◼   ► situation and that I think is a [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► legitimate place of potential difference [TS]

01:06:57 ◼   ► with Apple and arguably they have made [TS]

01:07:00 ◼   ► different moves there because this is [TS]

01:07:01 ◼   ► about a sixth generation with the shut [TS]

01:07:04 ◼   ► down stuff the seven had a bigger better [TS]

01:07:06 ◼   ► battery than the six right and the ten [TS]

01:07:08 ◼   ► seems to have a bigger better battery [TS]

01:07:10 ◼   ► still right so it seems like they are [TS]

01:07:12 ◼   ► making adjustments and learning from [TS]

01:07:14 ◼   ► where they came from but that I feel [TS]

01:07:16 ◼   ► like is you know the communications [TS]

01:07:18 ◼   ► stuff and everything it's I feel for [TS]

01:07:21 ◼   ► Apple but at the same time by being [TS]

01:07:23 ◼   ► secretive and crossing their fingers [TS]

01:07:24 ◼   ► that people wouldn't notice that's on [TS]

01:07:26 ◼   ► them and they you know they get all to [TS]

01:07:28 ◼   ► be a bad PR I do feel bad that the [TS]

01:07:30 ◼   ► perception will not match up with [TS]

01:07:33 ◼   ► reality even more so now because of this [TS]

01:07:36 ◼   ► but I also think that the design choices [TS]

01:07:40 ◼   ► that Apple has made that cause [TS]

01:07:42 ◼   ► performance degradation like their [TS]

01:07:46 ◼   ► compromises I'm not sure they have [TS]

01:07:48 ◼   ► struck the right balance it really [TS]

01:07:50 ◼   ► depends on who you are obviously tech [TS]

01:07:51 ◼   ► nerds they're gonna say that of course [TS]

01:07:53 ◼   ► you've struck the wrong balance because [TS]

01:07:55 ◼   ► I'll give up you know half a pound to [TS]

01:07:57 ◼   ► get an on throttled GPU other people [TS]

01:07:59 ◼   ► might want the half a pound because they [TS]

01:08:01 ◼   ► don't care about throttling and all they [TS]

01:08:02 ◼   ► do is use Microsoft Word all day but [TS]

01:08:05 ◼   ► from my perspective as a tech nerd it [TS]

01:08:07 ◼   ► bothered me to get a product that has to [TS]

01:08:10 ◼   ► be sort of you know baby they're using a [TS]

01:08:12 ◼   ► freezer to get the to get sort of the [TS]

01:08:15 ◼   ► rated performance out of it kind of not [TS]

01:08:18 ◼   ► to crash on Marko's Tesla but kind of [TS]

01:08:20 ◼   ► like the Tesla's where a lot of people [TS]

01:08:22 ◼   ► wrote in when we talked about Tesla's [TS]

01:08:24 ◼   ► and road tests and I felt like it wasn't [TS]

01:08:26 ◼   ► getting its due and how you know it's [TS]

01:08:29 ◼   ► such a great performance car but it's [TS]

01:08:30 ◼   ► never put up against the real ones and a [TS]

01:08:31 ◼   ► lot of people pointed out and I should [TS]

01:08:32 ◼   ► recall this from reading a lighting [TS]

01:08:33 ◼   ► laughs a lot of that is not just because [TS]

01:08:35 ◼   ► it's not grated handling because it's [TS]

01:08:37 ◼   ► really heavy but also because you drive [TS]

01:08:39 ◼   ► a Tesla hard around a racetrack and [TS]

01:08:41 ◼   ► eventually test it was like and yeah not [TS]

01:08:44 ◼   ► so much how about you how about you lay [TS]

01:08:46 ◼   ► off a little bit and it goes into not [TS]

01:08:47 ◼   ► limp mode but it goes into please stop [TS]

01:08:49 ◼   ► hurting me mode because my battery's [TS]

01:08:51 ◼   ► getting [TS]

01:08:51 ◼   ► really hot and I really don't like doing [TS]

01:08:54 ◼   ► you know hot laps as they're called like [TS]

01:08:56 ◼   ► literally hot laps I'm not up for this [TS]

01:08:59 ◼   ► and so it's hard to get a bunch of you [TS]

01:09:02 ◼   ► know good lap times because you do one [TS]

01:09:04 ◼   ► or two fast laps and the Tesla's says no [TS]

01:09:06 ◼   ► more like you know like thermal [TS]

01:09:09 ◼   ► throttling on a Mac and like the battery [TS]

01:09:11 ◼   ► they can't give enough juice it says [TS]

01:09:14 ◼   ► well can we just wait for the battery to [TS]

01:09:15 ◼   ► cool down a little bit maybe and that's [TS]

01:09:16 ◼   ► not something you're looking for in in [TS]

01:09:20 ◼   ► the performance car so fast in a [TS]

01:09:22 ◼   ► straight line [TS]

01:09:24 ◼   ► not so fast around curves and you drive [TS]

01:09:26 ◼   ► it fast for a long time and it really [TS]

01:09:28 ◼   ► really doesn't like that and says with [TS]

01:09:31 ◼   ► it's electronics you will not be doing [TS]

01:09:33 ◼   ► that anymore for a while I'm sorry [TS]

01:09:35 ◼   ► physics you know my bad so anyway to [TS]

01:09:39 ◼   ► wrap this up somehow I've managed to [TS]

01:09:42 ◼   ► turn this story about Apple software [TS]

01:09:47 ◼   ► protecting its hardware into a story [TS]

01:09:49 ◼   ► about how I really wanted the Mac Pro to [TS]

01:09:52 ◼   ► not be thermal throttled and Apple [TS]

01:09:53 ◼   ► should make us computers faster-- course [TS]

01:09:55 ◼   ► right [TS]

01:09:56 ◼   ► but but yeah like I said um if you take [TS]

01:09:58 ◼   ► one thing away from this take away the [TS]

01:10:01 ◼   ► sad the sad realization the the the idea [TS]

01:10:04 ◼   ► the knowledge that none of this [TS]

01:10:07 ◼   ► information actually confirms the things [TS]

01:10:09 ◼   ► people used to think about Apple but [TS]

01:10:11 ◼   ► everyone will believe it does and that's [TS]

01:10:14 ◼   ► a bummer for Apple and they're partially [TS]

01:10:15 ◼   ► to bring with bad PR handling but you [TS]

01:10:18 ◼   ► should continue not to believe that [TS]

01:10:20 ◼   ► Apple purposely slows down computers [TS]

01:10:21 ◼   ► because a that would be a dumb thing to [TS]

01:10:22 ◼   ► do and B they don't do it to make you [TS]

01:10:26 ◼   ► buy a new phone also please never put [TS]

01:10:29 ◼   ► your computing devices in the freezer [TS]

01:10:30 ◼   ► condensation exists this is a problem [TS]

01:10:32 ◼   ► put them in mineral oil come on yeah you [TS]

01:10:36 ◼   ► might even know about this because you [TS]

01:10:37 ◼   ► were you're always a Mac person case you [TS]

01:10:39 ◼   ► might remember do you ever back back [TS]

01:10:40 ◼   ► then like one of the early hey days of [TS]

01:10:43 ◼   ► overclocking and like the very late 90s [TS]

01:10:45 ◼   ► early 2000s overclocked yo started using [TS]

01:10:47 ◼   ► I don't know Hayes Browns Peltier [TS]

01:10:49 ◼   ► Peltier plates know about this so so one [TS]

01:10:55 ◼   ► of the ways that you know water cooling [TS]

01:10:56 ◼   ► was not extreme enough if you wanted to [TS]

01:10:58 ◼   ► push like a seller on up to two [TS]

01:10:59 ◼   ► gigahertz or whatever so people started [TS]

01:11:01 ◼   ► using these Peltier devices which are [TS]

01:11:03 ◼   ► these these like [TS]

01:11:05 ◼   ► thermoelectric things that they're like [TS]

01:11:07 ◼   ► they're like they're solid-state no [TS]

01:11:08 ◼   ► moving parts and you apply a ton of [TS]

01:11:10 ◼   ► power to them and one side gets super [TS]

01:11:13 ◼   ► cold and one side gets super hot [TS]

01:11:15 ◼   ► and I think this I think integrals use [TS]

01:11:17 ◼   ► these I'm not sure they're anyway [TS]

01:11:19 ◼   ► however you Browns those things [TS]

01:11:22 ◼   ► overclockers decided that this this was [TS]

01:11:24 ◼   ► a good way to to get even colder cooling [TS]

01:11:27 ◼   ► of their of their CPUs they could push [TS]

01:11:28 ◼   ► them even further and it's especially [TS]

01:11:31 ◼   ► egregious because all the power that it [TS]

01:11:34 ◼   ► draws which is a lot to perform this [TS]

01:11:37 ◼   ► cooling the hot side gets all the heat [TS]

01:11:40 ◼   ► of the processor plus that wattage that [TS]

01:11:41 ◼   ► it's using so like the cold side gets a [TS]

01:11:44 ◼   ► little cold the hot side gets really hot [TS]

01:11:47 ◼   ► and it was the mcdlt of cooling solution [TS]

01:11:51 ◼   ► the hot side hot cold side cold [TS]

01:11:52 ◼   ► I missed the mcdlt [TS]

01:11:55 ◼   ► yeah anyway and so one of the problems [TS]

01:11:58 ◼   ► one of the reasons one of the many [TS]

01:11:59 ◼   ► reasons why people I don't think really [TS]

01:12:01 ◼   ► used those for more than about six [TS]

01:12:03 ◼   ► months is because once you introduce the [TS]

01:12:07 ◼   ► the possibility for a for something in [TS]

01:12:09 ◼   ► your computer case to get below ambient [TS]

01:12:11 ◼   ► temperature you start having problems [TS]

01:12:13 ◼   ► with condensation and possibly frost and [TS]

01:12:16 ◼   ► this is a really big problem instead of [TS]

01:12:18 ◼   ► a computer collect Ronix do not like [TS]

01:12:20 ◼   ► water like if you like and of course [TS]

01:12:22 ◼   ► they decided okay now we can back off [TS]

01:12:24 ◼   ► frost and condensation and now we can [TS]

01:12:26 ◼   ► just go to pumping water through our [TS]

01:12:28 ◼   ► case that's much better well I mean like [TS]

01:12:30 ◼   ► you said it's of all about ambient [TS]

01:12:32 ◼   ► temperature because if you start making [TS]

01:12:33 ◼   ► the surrounding air cooler and it can no [TS]

01:12:35 ◼   ► longer hold the water that is that it [TS]

01:12:37 ◼   ► condenses out of the air that's a [TS]

01:12:39 ◼   ► problem but if everything is at air [TS]

01:12:40 ◼   ► temperature or higher you're still it's [TS]

01:12:42 ◼   ► still way lower than the temperature of [TS]

01:12:44 ◼   ► the little hot piece of silicon in there [TS]

01:12:45 ◼   ► so you're fine with condensation you [TS]

01:12:47 ◼   ► just gotta make sure you have no leaks [TS]

01:12:49 ◼   ► so is that it on the deliberately [TS]

01:12:52 ◼   ► planned obsolescence that may or may not [TS]

01:12:55 ◼   ► really be a thing it's not you're doing [TS]

01:12:57 ◼   ► it again not may or may not really be a [TS]

01:12:59 ◼   ► thing he's not really hitting I'm lady [TS]

01:13:01 ◼   ► this is the problem like no matter how [TS]

01:13:02 ◼   ► much people talk about but like yeah but [TS]

01:13:04 ◼   ► this does kind of confirm what everyone [TS]

01:13:05 ◼   ► said doesn't it no no it doesn't because [TS]

01:13:07 ◼   ► what they were saying they were saying [TS]

01:13:09 ◼   ► was not that they're slowing down the [TS]

01:13:10 ◼   ► computer but for a reason and this I [TS]

01:13:12 ◼   ► know this is the nuance and I totally [TS]

01:13:14 ◼   ► agree that no one is gonna get this but [TS]

01:13:15 ◼   ► the ADP listeners well no an hour [TS]

01:13:17 ◼   ► I would caution you ATP listeners do not [TS]

01:13:19 ◼   ► attempt to explain this to other people [TS]

01:13:20 ◼   ► like Christmas dinner because it will [TS]

01:13:22 ◼   ► not go over well just nod your head and [TS]

01:13:24 ◼   ► say you were right all right don't even [TS]

01:13:26 ◼   ► confirm that they're right just go have [TS]

01:13:28 ◼   ► a different conversation [TS]

01:13:30 ◼   ► no guess yeah guess what you're not [TS]

01:13:32 ◼   ► gonna be the one bringing it up like all [TS]

01:13:34 ◼   ► of our listeners who are known probably [TS]

01:13:36 ◼   ► as like the computer people and their [TS]

01:13:37 ◼   ► family all their other relatives are [TS]

01:13:40 ◼   ► gonna ask them about it you won't have [TS]

01:13:41 ◼   ► to bring it up people will ask you yeah [TS]

01:13:44 ◼   ► then you can tell them the truth I [TS]

01:13:45 ◼   ► suppose but like it's a nuance that [TS]

01:13:47 ◼   ► people don't care about because people [TS]

01:13:48 ◼   ► really really want to be right about [TS]

01:13:49 ◼   ► that conspiracy and they can get a [TS]

01:13:51 ◼   ► psychology of this like why you know [TS]

01:13:53 ◼   ► everyone wants to seem like they are [TS]

01:13:56 ◼   ► savvy like that the world's not pulling [TS]

01:13:58 ◼   ► one over me that this is how they get [TS]

01:14:00 ◼   ► you like the world attempts to pull one [TS]

01:14:03 ◼   ► over but I'm no dummy I know what the [TS]

01:14:05 ◼   ► truth is so Apple people think Apple is [TS]

01:14:08 ◼   ► great but I know the truth about Apple [TS]

01:14:10 ◼   ► the truth about Apple is they [TS]

01:14:11 ◼   ► intentionally make your phone slower to [TS]

01:14:12 ◼   ► make you buy a new one and I'm on you [TS]

01:14:14 ◼   ► know they're they're not fooling me [TS]

01:14:15 ◼   ► right and it's important to them to feel [TS]

01:14:20 ◼   ► like they are that the world is not [TS]

01:14:21 ◼   ► fooling them is often people who are [TS]

01:14:24 ◼   ► mostly being fooled by almost everything [TS]

01:14:26 ◼   ► in the world and so they you know the [TS]

01:14:28 ◼   ► it's important that they're that they [TS]

01:14:29 ◼   ► show that that's not the case so they no [TS]

01:14:32 ◼   ► matter how much like you can't you will [TS]

01:14:34 ◼   ► never convince these people that it's [TS]

01:14:35 ◼   ► not the case like there is no like [TS]

01:14:36 ◼   ► literally you will never convince them [TS]

01:14:38 ◼   ► like if they if they could personally [TS]

01:14:40 ◼   ► speak to and live with for a year every [TS]

01:14:42 ◼   ► employee living in dead of Apple and be [TS]

01:14:44 ◼   ► truly convinced that they were never [TS]

01:14:45 ◼   ► doing this they would do that in their [TS]

01:14:47 ◼   ► infant life span come back and say yeah [TS]

01:14:49 ◼   ► but I kind of think they're really doing [TS]

01:14:50 ◼   ► it well it really doesn't help that that [TS]

01:14:52 ◼   ► Apple just basically proved the first [TS]

01:14:55 ◼   ► two-thirds of their theory correct yeah [TS]

01:14:57 ◼   ► no that's the best thing like the [TS]

01:14:58 ◼   ► important but there is no to throw 2/3 [TS]

01:15:00 ◼   ► of the theory bit like the conclusion [TS]

01:15:02 ◼   ► like that gets like this is what they're [TS]

01:15:03 ◼   ► doing like they're doing it to make you [TS]

01:15:05 ◼   ► buy a new phone because the other part [TS]

01:15:07 ◼   ► of is not something to get work about [TS]

01:15:08 ◼   ► they're doing it to make sure the [TS]

01:15:09 ◼   ► hardware does it make sure my phone [TS]

01:15:11 ◼   ► doesn't turn off well that doesn't sound [TS]

01:15:12 ◼   ► like it something I should get that mad [TS]

01:15:13 ◼   ► about it because they they don't they [TS]

01:15:14 ◼   ► don't care about the nuances like PR [TS]

01:15:16 ◼   ► communication and so on and so forth [TS]

01:15:17 ◼   ► right maybe if you want to convince them [TS]

01:15:19 ◼   ► maybe you could say what you should [TS]

01:15:20 ◼   ► really be mad about is the fact that [TS]

01:15:21 ◼   ► Apple didn't say this earlier and then [TS]

01:15:24 ◼   ► they can get mad about that and maybe [TS]

01:15:25 ◼   ► they'll feel like they still like are [TS]

01:15:27 ◼   ► righteously angry and they can be [TS]

01:15:28 ◼   ► righteously angry about that that's fine [TS]

01:15:29 ◼   ► but some people will never give [TS]

01:15:31 ◼   ► the notion of malice that like like like [TS]

01:15:34 ◼   ► Volkswagen engineers secretly cheating [TS]

01:15:38 ◼   ► the emissions test because that's the [TS]

01:15:39 ◼   ► worst thing about this this Gruber [TS]

01:15:40 ◼   ► points out in his article he used uber [TS]

01:15:42 ◼   ► as an example because he doesn't know [TS]

01:15:43 ◼   ► about the automotive world but VW is [TS]

01:15:45 ◼   ► probably a more apt example large [TS]

01:15:48 ◼   ► corporations do legitimately do actual [TS]

01:15:51 ◼   ► actively maliciously evil cheesy things [TS]

01:15:53 ◼   ► like this you know not by accident not [TS]

01:15:56 ◼   ► to protect the engine but like detect [TS]

01:15:58 ◼   ► when you're being emission tested and [TS]

01:16:00 ◼   ► pretend like you have less emissions [TS]

01:16:01 ◼   ► than you do but then really when you get [TS]

01:16:03 ◼   ► use as a car put out way more our [TS]

01:16:04 ◼   ► emissions Volkswagen did that and that's [TS]

01:16:07 ◼   ► not good for that company so it's not a [TS]

01:16:09 ◼   ► stretch to believe the corporation would [TS]

01:16:11 ◼   ► do that but you know the the reason I [TS]

01:16:13 ◼   ► mean I guess we had to say look the [TS]

01:16:14 ◼   ► reason we all believe Apple wouldn't do [TS]

01:16:17 ◼   ► this is mostly because it doesn't make [TS]

01:16:20 ◼   ► sense I mean it's partially because we [TS]

01:16:22 ◼   ► know people at Apple and we trust Apple [TS]

01:16:23 ◼   ► and believe it and maybe we're suckers [TS]

01:16:25 ◼   ► in blah blah blah but also because [TS]

01:16:26 ◼   ► unlike cheating on emissions test which [TS]

01:16:28 ◼   ► has a big upside for VW if they can pull [TS]

01:16:31 ◼   ► it off successfully pulling off [TS]

01:16:34 ◼   ► intentionally making your phones worse [TS]

01:16:35 ◼   ► to make people buy new ones like it [TS]

01:16:37 ◼   ► wouldn't make people buy new ones as [TS]

01:16:39 ◼   ► Gruber has pointed out many many times [TS]

01:16:40 ◼   ► it would make people buy an Android [TS]

01:16:41 ◼   ► phone like if they knew like if their [TS]

01:16:43 ◼   ► phones just get worse and if this has [TS]

01:16:45 ◼   ► happened by the way with the shutdown [TS]

01:16:46 ◼   ► stuff I've seen stuff like I bought in [TS]

01:16:48 ◼   ► the last iPhone but then just kept [TS]

01:16:49 ◼   ► turning off forget it and I next time [TS]

01:16:51 ◼   ► I'm getting an Android phone it's way [TS]

01:16:52 ◼   ► cheaper anyway right that's what [TS]

01:16:53 ◼   ► actually happens if you intentionally or [TS]

01:16:56 ◼   ► not intentionally if the phone you have [TS]

01:16:58 ◼   ► starts getting worse you know like like [TS]

01:17:00 ◼   ► Casey with this BMW if your engine keeps [TS]

01:17:02 ◼   ► blowing up you're thinking maybe my [TS]

01:17:03 ◼   ► caramel next time won't be a BMW [TS]

01:17:05 ◼   ► okay he's not like that clever BMW [TS]

01:17:07 ◼   ► tricking me into buying another BMW by [TS]

01:17:09 ◼   ► making my engine blow up intentionally [TS]

01:17:11 ◼   ► that's not how the world works but [TS]

01:17:13 ◼   ► people do really want to feel like that [TS]

01:17:15 ◼   ► you know they understand how they get [TS]

01:17:17 ◼   ► you and the world's not pulling one over [TS]

01:17:18 ◼   ► on them so well because in this case the [TS]

01:17:20 ◼   ► world did pull one over on them and like [TS]

01:17:22 ◼   ► it this one's only the only fix to this [TS]

01:17:25 ◼   ► I mean it's gonna be a long-term [TS]

01:17:26 ◼   ► reputation problem and this you know the [TS]

01:17:28 ◼   ► having Mouse attributed to it is going [TS]

01:17:30 ◼   ► to be a very long-term problem but the [TS]

01:17:33 ◼   ► only way to start fixing this is to [TS]

01:17:36 ◼   ► communicate about it from the phone a PR [TS]

01:17:38 ◼   ► statement is not enough because most [TS]

01:17:40 ◼   ► people when I read PR statements and if [TS]

01:17:42 ◼   ► they do they won't believe them the [TS]

01:17:43 ◼   ► phone has to tell the [TS]

01:17:45 ◼   ► when this throttling happens and tell [TS]

01:17:47 ◼   ► them why it's happening and how much do [TS]

01:17:50 ◼   ► you think that will help I agree that it [TS]

01:17:52 ◼   ► will help but how much Oh massively [TS]

01:17:54 ◼   ► because that that totally changes the [TS]

01:17:57 ◼   ► the view of it not for everybody not [TS]

01:17:59 ◼   ► going to convince everybody but they [TS]

01:18:01 ◼   ► will it'll at least appear that they're [TS]

01:18:04 ◼   ► not trying to hide this fact from you [TS]

01:18:06 ◼   ► you know because the narrative is that [TS]

01:18:08 ◼   ► they are they are secretly like trickily [TS]

01:18:11 ◼   ► like slowing down your phone if they [TS]

01:18:14 ◼   ► tell you your phone can't run at full [TS]

01:18:17 ◼   ► speed because the battery is is too worn [TS]

01:18:19 ◼   ► out that's a very different look and [TS]

01:18:22 ◼   ► again that's gonna piss people off too [TS]

01:18:24 ◼   ► but not as many it's a way fewer [TS]

01:18:28 ◼   ► percentage I was like if 100 percent is [TS]

01:18:30 ◼   ► everyone suddenly has good feelings and [TS]

01:18:32 ◼   ► 0% is this doesn't make anybody feel [TS]

01:18:34 ◼   ► better what percentage would you say [TS]

01:18:36 ◼   ► that this helps bring me half to 2/3 I'd [TS]

01:18:38 ◼   ► say I mean a lot we're on the same page [TS]

01:18:40 ◼   ► because I think it's half as well my [TS]

01:18:41 ◼   ► guess would be about half like a half of [TS]

01:18:43 ◼   ► the people will be will see that dialog [TS]

01:18:45 ◼   ► and will be like yeah it's a bummer but [TS]

01:18:47 ◼   ► I understand what's going on and the [TS]

01:18:49 ◼   ► other half of the people like I said [TS]

01:18:50 ◼   ► will say this dialog box proves the app [TS]

01:18:52 ◼   ► was trying to get me a new phone by [TS]

01:18:54 ◼   ► lying to me with this dialog box so it [TS]

01:18:56 ◼   ► is way better than what they did this [TS]

01:18:58 ◼   ► time but I am pessimistic that this will [TS]

01:19:02 ◼   ► you know and if you think about it the [TS]

01:19:04 ◼   ► like I don't know the the the not saying [TS]

01:19:07 ◼   ► anything strategy pretend the not saying [TS]

01:19:08 ◼   ► anything strategy had had been ongoing [TS]

01:19:10 ◼   ► and you know this this whole information [TS]

01:19:14 ◼   ► had not come out right they just [TS]

01:19:16 ◼   ► continue to but they're not saying [TS]

01:19:16 ◼   ► anything thing Apple could have [TS]

01:19:18 ◼   ► theoretically weathered that storm and [TS]

01:19:20 ◼   ► just put better batteries in their phone [TS]

01:19:22 ◼   ► and eventually the six is all cycle out [TS]

01:19:23 ◼   ► and then you know they sort of [TS]

01:19:25 ◼   ► quote-unquote win so the you know this [TS]

01:19:29 ◼   ► strategy they chose to do is riskier [TS]

01:19:31 ◼   ► right because something like what what [TS]

01:19:33 ◼   ► just happened could happen but the [TS]

01:19:35 ◼   ► potential upside I think is better than [TS]

01:19:37 ◼   ► the 50% solution where half the people [TS]

01:19:39 ◼   ► think now the dialog box is proof [TS]

01:19:41 ◼   ► positive that Apple is trying to trick [TS]

01:19:43 ◼   ► you into buying a new phone by making [TS]

01:19:44 ◼   ► your phone slower because that dialog [TS]

01:19:45 ◼   ► box is total BS my battery's fine I know [TS]

01:19:47 ◼   ► it's fine it's telling me I need a new [TS]

01:19:48 ◼   ► phone it's just you know anyway when to [TS]

01:19:51 ◼   ► be clear they said like they said in [TS]

01:19:52 ◼   ► statement that right now it applies to [TS]

01:19:54 ◼   ► iPhone 6 and 6s but it's going to but [TS]

01:19:56 ◼   ► the 7 is going to be added soon and [TS]

01:19:58 ◼   ► future devices will be [TS]

01:19:59 ◼   ► as time goes on like they said that so [TS]

01:20:01 ◼   ► it isn't a problem inherent to the six [TS]

01:20:02 ◼   ► and success like this this problem isn't [TS]

01:20:04 ◼   ► gonna go away right but I think the [TS]

01:20:06 ◼   ► battery is better in the seven like I [TS]

01:20:07 ◼   ► think like they put a bigger battery in [TS]

01:20:09 ◼   ► and that supposedly will make it you [TS]

01:20:11 ◼   ► know so that doesn't get go under [TS]

01:20:13 ◼   ► current as you know so maybe the last to [TS]

01:20:15 ◼   ► have two years two and a half years or [TS]

01:20:16 ◼   ► whatever like I think they're because I [TS]

01:20:18 ◼   ► think the root problem is sort of the [TS]

01:20:20 ◼   ► design lifetime of the phone right it's [TS]

01:20:22 ◼   ► not like you know they have to pick a [TS]

01:20:23 ◼   ► design lifetime like you have to like I [TS]

01:20:25 ◼   ► said they could pick any number they [TS]

01:20:26 ◼   ► wanted it as their target right I think [TS]

01:20:28 ◼   ► they've been moving their target up [TS]

01:20:29 ◼   ► which will help them with this problem [TS]

01:20:30 ◼   ► there is no no phone like mega design [TS]

01:20:32 ◼   ► where this problem will never come up [TS]

01:20:33 ◼   ► unless they have totally different [TS]

01:20:34 ◼   ► battery technology so they have to pick [TS]

01:20:36 ◼   ► a time and no matter what they need to [TS]

01:20:39 ◼   ► have this messaging so if someone [TS]

01:20:40 ◼   ► happens to keep their phone they make a [TS]

01:20:42 ◼   ► phone the last five years somewhat if [TS]

01:20:45 ◼   ► someone keeps it for six years you still [TS]

01:20:46 ◼   ► need this all this mechanism in there [TS]

01:20:48 ◼   ► for when it goes bad it's just a [TS]

01:20:50 ◼   ► question of what that number is and I [TS]

01:20:52 ◼   ► think the number is farther out on the [TS]

01:20:55 ◼   ► sevens intense we'll see we'll see when [TS]

01:20:56 ◼   ► they when they had the software feature [TS]

01:20:57 ◼   ► I mean you'll find out basically it's [TS]

01:20:59 ◼   ► like do people have sevens now that are [TS]

01:21:01 ◼   ► like switching off like KC six used to [TS]

01:21:02 ◼   ► or all the sevens too young at this [TS]

01:21:05 ◼   ► point I don't know I I haven't heard it [TS]

01:21:07 ◼   ► I mean I have a seven so I'll be [TS]

01:21:08 ◼   ► watching for it but it's an inherent [TS]

01:21:12 ◼   ► problem with the battery technology and [TS]

01:21:14 ◼   ► the problem with having a steal battery [TS]

01:21:15 ◼   ► and all that stuff and so communication [TS]

01:21:19 ◼   ► will help with that but I think apple [TS]

01:21:23 ◼   ► also dreads the idea of people seeing [TS]

01:21:25 ◼   ► that dialog box because some people some [TS]

01:21:28 ◼   ► percentage of people will see that [TS]

01:21:30 ◼   ► dialog box and have a concrete thing to [TS]

01:21:35 ◼   ► point to to say that Apple is malicious [TS]

01:21:38 ◼   ► and evil like they look at this dialog [TS]

01:21:39 ◼   ► box apples coming right out and telling [TS]

01:21:41 ◼   ► me you should buy a new phone because [TS]

01:21:43 ◼   ► we're you know we're artificially making [TS]

01:21:45 ◼   ► your phone slow to make you buy a new [TS]

01:21:46 ◼   ► phone like that's how they'll read that [TS]

01:21:48 ◼   ► dialogue boxing that's a bummer we our [TS]

01:21:52 ◼   ► sponsor this week by Squarespace start [TS]

01:21:54 ◼   ► building your website today at [TS]

01:21:55 ◼   ► squarespace.com and enter offer code ATP [TS]

01:21:57 ◼   ► at checkout to get 10% off make your [TS]

01:21:59 ◼   ► next move with Squarespace no matter [TS]

01:22:02 ◼   ► what kind of website you're making today [TS]

01:22:03 ◼   ► whether it's a new blog or portfolio or [TS]

01:22:06 ◼   ► a site for a new business even a podcast [TS]

01:22:09 ◼   ► or even an online store Squarespace has [TS]

01:22:12 ◼   ► so [TS]

01:22:13 ◼   ► built-in functionality you can probably [TS]

01:22:15 ◼   ► do everything you need to do on [TS]

01:22:16 ◼   ► Squarespace and look if you're listening [TS]

01:22:18 ◼   ► to the show [TS]

01:22:19 ◼   ► I know you're probably like me a little [TS]

01:22:21 ◼   ► bit at least you're probably a little [TS]

01:22:22 ◼   ► bit of a nerd and you probably know how [TS]

01:22:24 ◼   ► to make your own websites there's [TS]

01:22:25 ◼   ► probably other ways you can do this [TS]

01:22:27 ◼   ► trust me [TS]

01:22:28 ◼   ► try squarespace first whether it's a [TS]

01:22:30 ◼   ► site for yourself or if somebody else [TS]

01:22:32 ◼   ► asked you to make a website for them try [TS]

01:22:35 ◼   ► squarespace because you can get really [TS]

01:22:38 ◼   ► far in an hour or two you can probably [TS]

01:22:40 ◼   ► even be finished or at least be close to [TS]

01:22:42 ◼   ► finish in an hour or two and you can do [TS]

01:22:44 ◼   ► all that during the free trial you they [TS]

01:22:45 ◼   ► don't even have to ask you for a credit [TS]

01:22:46 ◼   ► card you can just start the free trial [TS]

01:22:49 ◼   ► at squarespace.com and just see how far [TS]

01:22:51 ◼   ► you get and it's gonna be so great I bet [TS]

01:22:54 ◼   ► you're gonna keep it you're gonna stick [TS]

01:22:55 ◼   ► with it it is so easy to use no matter [TS]

01:22:57 ◼   ► what your skill level is beginner to [TS]

01:22:58 ◼   ► advanced your sites look professionally [TS]

01:23:00 ◼   ► designed they scale up to any screen [TS]

01:23:02 ◼   ► size on any device and they have so much [TS]

01:23:04 ◼   ► built-in functionality and you don't [TS]

01:23:06 ◼   ► have to worry about things like [TS]

01:23:07 ◼   ► installing security updates or hat [TS]

01:23:10 ◼   ► keeping the site up if it's getting a [TS]

01:23:11 ◼   ► lot of links in they take care of all [TS]

01:23:13 ◼   ► that for you if you need any help they [TS]

01:23:15 ◼   ► have amazing support available and if [TS]

01:23:17 ◼   ► you're making a site for somebody else [TS]

01:23:18 ◼   ► and they need help they ask Squarespace [TS]

01:23:20 ◼   ► instead of you check it out today if [TS]

01:23:22 ◼   ► squarespace.com starting free trial see [TS]

01:23:25 ◼   ► what I'm talking about when you want to [TS]

01:23:26 ◼   ► sign up for Squarespace which I'm sure [TS]

01:23:28 ◼   ► you will make sure to use the offer code [TS]

01:23:29 ◼   ► ATP to get 10% off your first purchase [TS]

01:23:31 ◼   ► make your next move with Squarespace [TS]

01:23:34 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

01:23:38 ◼   ► Apple is taking a page from the windows [TS]

01:23:41 ◼   ► playbook just today and by today I mean [TS]

01:23:48 ◼   ► exactly 7 days ago Apple or I should say [TS]

01:23:52 ◼   ► that that Bloomberg released a post as [TS]

01:23:55 ◼   ► Mark Kerman saying Apple plans combined [TS]

01:23:58 ◼   ► iPhone iPad and Mac apps to create one [TS]

01:24:00 ◼   ► user experience speaking of a Microsoft [TS]

01:24:03 ◼   ► tagline one user experience and speaking [TS]

01:24:05 ◼   ► of a headline that does not accurately [TS]

01:24:06 ◼   ► represent the ideas and contained in the [TS]

01:24:08 ◼   ► article I'm shocked yeah no way so this [TS]

01:24:13 ◼   ► is a again a post by gurmann and and the [TS]

01:24:16 ◼   ► summary seems to be that there will be a [TS]

01:24:20 ◼   ► change probably next year if he's right [TS]

01:24:23 ◼   ► that what we currently think of as a [TS]

01:24:25 ◼   ► universal app [TS]

01:24:26 ◼   ► or maybe there'll be a new term for it [TS]

01:24:28 ◼   ► but but there will be a mechanism by [TS]

01:24:30 ◼   ► which the same app can be run on iOS and [TS]

01:24:35 ◼   ► Mac OS and so in the same way that we [TS]

01:24:39 ◼   ► have Universal apps on the iOS App Store [TS]

01:24:41 ◼   ► which can be run on iPhone and iPad in [TS]

01:24:44 ◼   ► the future their own I guess Apple watch [TS]

01:24:47 ◼   ► although that's not really part of being [TS]

01:24:49 ◼   ► universal but anyway but it's three [TS]

01:24:50 ◼   ► different platforms in the future there [TS]

01:24:52 ◼   ► there may or perhaps will be a mechanism [TS]

01:24:55 ◼   ► by which we will have the same app [TS]

01:24:59 ◼   ► running on iPhone on iPad potentially an [TS]

01:25:03 ◼   ► Apple watch and on Mac OS and nobody [TS]

01:25:07 ◼   ► really knows what the engineering [TS]

01:25:10 ◼   ► mechanism is behind this [TS]

01:25:12 ◼   ► but that supposedly is the future if you [TS]

01:25:15 ◼   ► believe mark Garmin so I think it's [TS]

01:25:18 ◼   ► worth pontificating about what the [TS]

01:25:22 ◼   ► different paths are to this end but [TS]

01:25:25 ◼   ► before we go down that road [TS]

01:25:27 ◼   ► are there any immediate thoughts on this [TS]

01:25:29 ◼   ► starting with John I think the important [TS]

01:25:32 ◼   ► thing the important part of this story [TS]

01:25:34 ◼   ► to think about and this is the rumor so [TS]

01:25:36 ◼   ► we don't know bla bla bla they did a lot [TS]

01:25:37 ◼   ► of equivocating in this but it might [TS]

01:25:40 ◼   ► come next year but they might cancel it [TS]

01:25:41 ◼   ► but it might not great ok um so the [TS]

01:25:44 ◼   ► motivation behind this is something that [TS]

01:25:45 ◼   ► we've talked about in this show a lot [TS]

01:25:47 ◼   ► specifically when Marco has been like [TS]

01:25:49 ◼   ► making Mac applications and stuff and [TS]

01:25:51 ◼   ► and poorly yeah the historical side with [TS]

01:25:53 ◼   ► that here here's what I think why why I [TS]

01:25:57 ◼   ► believe that projects like this are you [TS]

01:26:01 ◼   ► know conceivably going on inside Apple [TS]

01:26:02 ◼   ► and may actually ship Apple has an [TS]

01:26:07 ◼   ► important asset that they brag about in [TS]

01:26:10 ◼   ► you know it's all the time but that I [TS]

01:26:13 ◼   ► think people tend not to think about [TS]

01:26:14 ◼   ► that much which is you know when they [TS]

01:26:17 ◼   ► put that slide says we have X number of [TS]

01:26:20 ◼   ► thousands or millions of developers they [TS]

01:26:22 ◼   ► brag about number apps but number of [TS]

01:26:23 ◼   ► apps is a proxy for a number of [TS]

01:26:24 ◼   ► developers whose developers are writing [TS]

01:26:26 ◼   ► those apps Apple used to have a certain [TS]

01:26:29 ◼   ► amount of people who were Mac developers [TS]

01:26:31 ◼   ► but now they have way way more people [TS]

01:26:33 ◼   ► who are iOS developers there are a lot [TS]

01:26:35 ◼   ► of iOS developers that is a tremendous [TS]

01:26:38 ◼   ► asset for Apple it's huge number [TS]

01:26:40 ◼   ► people who know how to write [TS]

01:26:42 ◼   ► applications for iOS and do it to make [TS]

01:26:45 ◼   ► money it's a virtuous cycle like it's [TS]

01:26:47 ◼   ► you know the whole marketplace it's [TS]

01:26:49 ◼   ► great for Apple makes money when they [TS]

01:26:50 ◼   ► make money but really the important [TS]

01:26:52 ◼   ► asset is a bunch of people out there [TS]

01:26:53 ◼   ► know how to write iOS apps fewer people [TS]

01:26:56 ◼   ► out there know how to write Mac apps [TS]

01:26:58 ◼   ► fewer every year because the maca maca [TS]

01:27:01 ◼   ► developers get older and most people who [TS]

01:27:03 ◼   ► are learning to write absolutely to [TS]

01:27:04 ◼   ► write them on iOS one way Apple could [TS]

01:27:07 ◼   ► deal with this is say we're just gonna [TS]

01:27:09 ◼   ► sunset the Mac whatever the Mac was the [TS]

01:27:10 ◼   ► past iOS is the future all these [TS]

01:27:12 ◼   ► developers know how to develop for iOS [TS]

01:27:13 ◼   ► we'll just let all the Mac developers [TS]

01:27:15 ◼   ► retire and golf into the sunset and [TS]

01:27:17 ◼   ► we'll can the Mac line and blah blah [TS]

01:27:19 ◼   ► blah you know and everything we've seen [TS]

01:27:23 ◼   ► about VR has said no we're not doing [TS]

01:27:25 ◼   ► that the Mac is important blah blah blah [TS]

01:27:27 ◼   ► and yeah it's important bit until it's [TS]

01:27:28 ◼   ► not but so far the messaging is pretty [TS]

01:27:29 ◼   ► clear thumbs up on the Mac in fact we're [TS]

01:27:33 ◼   ► rededicating ourselves to the Mac the [TS]

01:27:35 ◼   ► Mac is an important product the Mac and [TS]

01:27:37 ◼   ► iOS fill different roles we're never [TS]

01:27:39 ◼   ► gonna force the Mac to be like iOS of [TS]

01:27:41 ◼   ► course I was to be like the Mac all [TS]

01:27:43 ◼   ► those things that they said but they do [TS]

01:27:45 ◼   ► have the problem of a small number of [TS]

01:27:48 ◼   ► Mac developers a small number of Mac [TS]

01:27:50 ◼   ► apps and smaller all the time like tons [TS]

01:27:54 ◼   ► of applications are available on iOS and [TS]

01:27:57 ◼   ► TV OS but not on the Mac in the old days [TS]

01:28:01 ◼   ► of just the PC world of course they'd be [TS]

01:28:02 ◼   ► available on the Mac if they were [TS]

01:28:04 ◼   ► available in any app platform now many [TS]

01:28:06 ◼   ► things are available in out black or [TS]

01:28:07 ◼   ► it's not available on the Mac and one of [TS]

01:28:09 ◼   ► the big reasons is you have at least [TS]

01:28:11 ◼   ► evelle person over iOS apps but they [TS]

01:28:13 ◼   ► don't know how to write Mac apps and [TS]

01:28:14 ◼   ► writing Mac apps is different enough [TS]

01:28:16 ◼   ► that it is non-trivial to do that so [TS]

01:28:19 ◼   ► they're assuming Apple wants to keep the [TS]

01:28:21 ◼   ► Mac around which they keep saying they [TS]

01:28:23 ◼   ► do one way to solve that problem is to [TS]

01:28:25 ◼   ► find a way to let the huge number of [TS]

01:28:28 ◼   ► people who know how to write iOS apps [TS]

01:28:31 ◼   ► reuse some or all those skills to target [TS]

01:28:34 ◼   ► the Mac and that I think is what any [TS]

01:28:39 ◼   ► project like this would be about it [TS]

01:28:41 ◼   ► would be about leveraging that asset to [TS]

01:28:46 ◼   ► you know bring up their other platform [TS]

01:28:49 ◼   ► and yes the unification is important too [TS]

01:28:51 ◼   ► like trying to unify but you know the [TS]

01:28:53 ◼   ► reason I said this headline was [TS]

01:28:54 ◼   ► misleading his visit says to create one [TS]

01:28:57 ◼   ► user experience but then you read the [TS]

01:28:58 ◼   ► article on it's like the application [TS]

01:29:00 ◼   ► sometimes we'll use touch but then [TS]

01:29:01 ◼   ► sometimes we'll use a mouse and a [TS]

01:29:02 ◼   ► pointer it's like that's naughty that's [TS]

01:29:03 ◼   ► what not one user experience that's two [TS]

01:29:05 ◼   ► user experiences and it should be [TS]

01:29:06 ◼   ► because the mouse cursor is different [TS]

01:29:08 ◼   ► than touch and you can't use you know [TS]

01:29:09 ◼   ► different things working different you [TS]

01:29:10 ◼   ► know anyway this is all about letting [TS]

01:29:14 ◼   ► leveraging the those skills and I am I [TS]

01:29:16 ◼   ► think I think Mark already talked about [TS]

01:29:18 ◼   ► this someone of his podcast that he's [TS]

01:29:19 ◼   ► all recorded in the in the past future I [TS]

01:29:21 ◼   ► don't know how time works anymore the [TS]

01:29:23 ◼   ► Days of Future past seven days ago we [TS]

01:29:25 ◼   ► discussed under the radar yeah but I [TS]

01:29:29 ◼   ► think you'll hear a lot about iOS [TS]

01:29:30 ◼   ► developer saying I'd yeah if I could use [TS]

01:29:34 ◼   ► my skills to either make a mac app or to [TS]

01:29:36 ◼   ► bring the app that I already have and I [TS]

01:29:37 ◼   ► on iPhone and iPad to the Mac maybe that [TS]

01:29:41 ◼   ► would make sense at the very least I [TS]

01:29:42 ◼   ► would entertain it like I wouldn't rule [TS]

01:29:43 ◼   ► it out like I have to see if it makes [TS]

01:29:45 ◼   ► sense in terms of economics and so on [TS]

01:29:47 ◼   ► and so forth there are some potential [TS]

01:29:48 ◼   ► upside potential downsides but a lot of [TS]

01:29:51 ◼   ► time you know like it it's when you [TS]

01:29:54 ◼   ► remove the barrier and say you can use [TS]

01:29:55 ◼   ► your skills that you have for iOS and [TS]

01:29:57 ◼   ► you know you know how to use UI kid and [TS]

01:29:59 ◼   ► make table views and do all this stuff [TS]

01:30:00 ◼   ► and there's some about new stuff you [TS]

01:30:01 ◼   ► might learn but you can reuse your code [TS]

01:30:03 ◼   ► and you can reuse your skills and to you [TS]

01:30:05 ◼   ► know to varying a sense they would be [TS]

01:30:07 ◼   ► open to that idea because it is [TS]

01:30:09 ◼   ► potential new way to make money and yes [TS]

01:30:10 ◼   ► it's a smaller platform but in theory we [TS]

01:30:13 ◼   ► know this is true but in theory you [TS]

01:30:14 ◼   ► might be able to charge even higher [TS]

01:30:16 ◼   ► prices than you do on the iPad so that's [TS]

01:30:19 ◼   ► the lens through which I'm viewing all [TS]

01:30:20 ◼   ► these rumors and getting it what Casey [TS]

01:30:22 ◼   ► was talking about yeah but how but how [TS]

01:30:23 ◼   ► would they do that [TS]

01:30:24 ◼   ► there are many ways that they could do [TS]

01:30:26 ◼   ► it that would be bad for Mac users in [TS]

01:30:28 ◼   ► bed for developers like they can blow it [TS]

01:30:29 ◼   ► but if I want to put up like what are [TS]

01:30:32 ◼   ► the goals of this project the goals are [TS]

01:30:34 ◼   ► leverage one of Apple's greatest assets [TS]

01:30:37 ◼   ► tons of developers who know how to do [TS]

01:30:38 ◼   ► well for iOS alright so before we talk [TS]

01:30:40 ◼   ► how Marco any other thoughts the Devils [TS]

01:30:44 ◼   ► in the details but conceptually I love [TS]

01:30:47 ◼   ► this idea [TS]

01:30:48 ◼   ► it is not gonna be an easy thing to do [TS]

01:30:51 ◼   ► you know if this is this is really a [TS]

01:30:54 ◼   ► thing they're working on it's that's not [TS]

01:30:56 ◼   ► easy because the two platforms are very [TS]

01:31:00 ◼   ► very different from each other and I [TS]

01:31:01 ◼   ► don't just mean like on at an API level [TS]

01:31:04 ◼   ► I'm talking about just like the an [TS]

01:31:05 ◼   ► interaction and use [TS]

01:31:07 ◼   ► fullness level and the needs of a Mac [TS]

01:31:09 ◼   ► app you know versus iOS like in many [TS]

01:31:12 ◼   ► ways developing an iOS is way easier [TS]

01:31:14 ◼   ► because there's a lot of things that you [TS]

01:31:16 ◼   ► don't have to worry about that on the [TS]

01:31:18 ◼   ► Mac you have to accommodate or think [TS]

01:31:20 ◼   ► about or support just because people [TS]

01:31:23 ◼   ► expect different kind of interactions on [TS]

01:31:25 ◼   ► the Mac like you know just simple things [TS]

01:31:26 ◼   ► like you know you have the entire menu [TS]

01:31:28 ◼   ► system you also have things like [TS]

01:31:30 ◼   ► drag-and-drop and different types of [TS]

01:31:33 ◼   ► like you know data providing services [TS]

01:31:35 ◼   ► that you have all sorts of different you [TS]

01:31:38 ◼   ► have windowing multiple windows multiple [TS]

01:31:41 ◼   ► documents being open the the entire [TS]

01:31:43 ◼   ► document system behind that you have [TS]

01:31:45 ◼   ► things like undo which you don't have [TS]

01:31:48 ◼   ► all sorts of of rich behaviors that have [TS]

01:31:53 ◼   ► been built over time many of us quite a [TS]

01:31:55 ◼   ► long time ago that people expect all [TS]

01:31:57 ◼   ► like you know quote computer apps to be [TS]

01:31:59 ◼   ► able to do now [TS]