Under the Radar

00:00:00 ◼   ► welcome to under the radar a show about

00:00:01 ◼   ► independent iOS app development I'm

00:00:04 ◼   ► Marco Arment and I'm David Smith under

00:00:06 ◼   ► the radar is never longer than 30

00:00:08 ◼   ► minutes so let's get started so today we

00:00:11 ◼   ► are going to be talking about reviews in

00:00:13 ◼   ► the App Store

00:00:14 ◼   ► again again if you're a an Eagle eared

00:00:17 ◼   ► listener of the show people realized

00:00:19 ◼   ► that just two weeks ago and episode 62

00:00:22 ◼   ► we were talking about reviews in the App

00:00:24 ◼   ► Store and little did we know that here

00:00:26 ◼   ► we are a fortnight later we would be

00:00:27 ◼   ► doing it again not necessarily the plan

00:00:31 ◼   ► but Apple announced yesterday as a

00:00:33 ◼   ► recording a bunch of updates

00:00:36 ◼   ► specifically around iOS 10.3 and

00:00:38 ◼   ► included in that is a fairly substantial

00:00:41 ◼   ► pair of changes to the review system in

00:00:44 ◼   ► the app store and so it seemed and I've

00:00:47 ◼   ► only appropriate to follow up on that to

00:00:49 ◼   ► talk about it just because now sort of

00:00:53 ◼   ► going forward whenever we said two weeks

00:00:54 ◼   ► ago is going to have to make sense in

00:00:57 ◼   ► this broader context that Apple is

00:00:58 ◼   ► changing so the short version is Apple

00:01:02 ◼   ► introduced introducing two changes the

00:01:03 ◼   ► first is a standardized way for asking

00:01:06 ◼   ► for reviews modally within your

00:01:08 ◼   ► applications with a thing called eske's

00:01:11 ◼   ► Store review controller and then the

00:01:14 ◼   ► second thing they're doing is they're

00:01:15 ◼   ► going to be changing the App Store

00:01:18 ◼   ► itself to allow developers to respond to

00:01:22 ◼   ► customer views that are written in the

00:01:24 ◼   ► App Store

00:01:24 ◼   ► so we'll kind of work through those

00:01:26 ◼   ► individually but probably starting off

00:01:28 ◼   ► by talking about the new modal display

00:01:31 ◼   ► that we can get it's really worth saying

00:01:33 ◼   ► this is actually not the first time that

00:01:35 ◼   ► Apple has had a modal would you like to

00:01:38 ◼   ► review this application dialog the first

00:01:42 ◼   ► version of this which you have to have

00:01:44 ◼   ► been doing iOS development for a while

00:01:45 ◼   ► to remember there used to be a thing in

00:01:48 ◼   ► the App Store where when you deleted an

00:01:50 ◼   ► app only when you deleted it when you

00:01:52 ◼   ► deleted it it would pop up and say

00:01:54 ◼   ► before you delete this app would you

00:01:55 ◼   ► like to leave a review so yeah I'm not

00:01:59 ◼   ► sure what wire they thought this was a

00:02:00 ◼   ► great idea that the if you like someone

00:02:04 ◼   ► who is actively said I no longer want

00:02:06 ◼   ► this app and then you ask them well what

00:02:08 ◼   ► did you think about it and that was the

00:02:10 ◼   ► only time they were ever prompted to

00:02:12 ◼   ► review apps

00:02:13 ◼   ► yeah surprising and unsurprisingly there

00:02:16 ◼   ► were a lot of one-star reviews that came

00:02:18 ◼   ► through that Mis system yeah so this

00:02:21 ◼   ► one's better so the new system which

00:02:23 ◼   ► I'll just kind of briefly overview is

00:02:24 ◼   ► there's a new method that I said the SK

00:02:27 ◼   ► Stroh review controller in store kit

00:02:29 ◼   ► that you can call a method just says

00:02:32 ◼   ► request review and this method is

00:02:35 ◼   ► interesting because it doesn't pop up

00:02:37 ◼   ► necessarily a modal display I'm sorry by

00:02:40 ◼   ► saying this is always modal this is not

00:02:41 ◼   ► like a you know sort of a button that

00:02:44 ◼   ► you can push in the app in your apps in

00:02:46 ◼   ► your app and then have it bring it up

00:02:48 ◼   ► this is something where it's always

00:02:49 ◼   ► going to be slightly an interruption in

00:02:52 ◼   ► terms of the way they're structuring it

00:02:53 ◼   ► because you call this method and you say

00:02:55 ◼   ► this is probably a good time to request

00:02:58 ◼   ► an app store review you have no

00:03:00 ◼   ► guarantees as to whether that modal will

00:03:02 ◼   ► actually pop up then or not that's we'll

00:03:06 ◼   ► get into reasons a bit later but you

00:03:07 ◼   ► know Apple is keeping control over

00:03:08 ◼   ► whether anything is actually shown to

00:03:10 ◼   ► you but you can say you know this is a

00:03:12 ◼   ► good time so say for example like the

00:03:15 ◼   ► usual examples of people will throw

00:03:16 ◼   ► around is you know a customer completes

00:03:18 ◼   ► something that would make sense that you

00:03:20 ◼   ► know like say I have an audiobook app

00:03:22 ◼   ► which I do and say you have just

00:03:25 ◼   ► finished a book that may be a good time

00:03:27 ◼   ► to prompt them to write a review

00:03:31 ◼   ► you know they've just completed this

00:03:32 ◼   ► thing hope that they enjoyed it in a

00:03:33 ◼   ► have a full sense of the app it's not

00:03:34 ◼   ► really an interruption in the same way

00:03:36 ◼   ► because they're not you know it's not

00:03:38 ◼   ► like they're opening up the app to go

00:03:39 ◼   ► and listen like the app you know they

00:03:41 ◼   ► just finished listening to all of their

00:03:43 ◼   ► things and so now may be a reasonable

00:03:45 ◼   ► time but you can say this is a good time

00:03:47 ◼   ► and if Apple says it's a good idea that

00:03:50 ◼   ► will pop up and show it's show this

00:03:52 ◼   ► alert to them and they're also adding a

00:03:54 ◼   ► slightly they're tweaking things a

00:03:56 ◼   ► little bit in terms of giving us a ver

00:03:57 ◼   ► and explicit URL to link out to the app

00:04:01 ◼   ► store with sort of deep deep linking if

00:04:03 ◼   ► we still want to do the setting screen

00:04:05 ◼   ► version that's that's now sort of sort

00:04:08 ◼   ► of part of this but it's that's not

00:04:09 ◼   ► really part of the SDK but that's just

00:04:11 ◼   ► they're saying in the documentation that

00:04:13 ◼   ► if you want to do a modal pop-up in the

00:04:15 ◼   ► app to leave a review use this new

00:04:17 ◼   ► request review method if you would still

00:04:19 ◼   ► like to have like a button in your

00:04:21 ◼   ► settings screen here's the

00:04:24 ◼   ► query parameter that you can add to the

00:04:25 ◼   ► end overall I think I mean mostly what I

00:04:30 ◼   ► love about this is that appleís is

00:04:32 ◼   ► taking this seriously and doing

00:04:33 ◼   ► something about it I think it's been a

00:04:35 ◼   ► problem for I mean these in years now

00:04:38 ◼   ► that we've had this situation where

00:04:40 ◼   ► there is so much ambiguity there's no

00:04:42 ◼   ► leadership on the AppStore policy side

00:04:45 ◼   ► of things about this and so you end up

00:04:46 ◼   ► with this weird kind of asymmetric

00:04:47 ◼   ► warfare where you know having five star

00:04:51 ◼   ► wars in the App Store is an important

00:04:53 ◼   ► thing for sales the best way to get that

00:04:55 ◼   ► is to keep bugging your users to give

00:04:57 ◼   ► you those reviews and if you do that you

00:04:59 ◼   ► will be rewarded with more downloads and

00:05:01 ◼   ► that creates this vicious cycle that if

00:05:03 ◼   ► you don't want to get into that then

00:05:04 ◼   ► your apps at a disadvantage because you

00:05:06 ◼   ► don't you know it's like if you're

00:05:08 ◼   ► comparing my app which has you know 20

00:05:10 ◼   ► or 30 reviews trap that has 200 or 300

00:05:12 ◼   ► reviews it looks bad and so at least

00:05:14 ◼   ► what I like here is that Apple is saying

00:05:16 ◼   ► this is an important thing for us to

00:05:17 ◼   ► dive into you this is something that

00:05:19 ◼   ► they want to have some control over and

00:05:22 ◼   ► and obviously like I love the way that

00:05:23 ◼   ► in classic Apple fashion they're

00:05:25 ◼   ► maintaining a lot of control about it

00:05:27 ◼   ► you know that it isn't an API that we

00:05:29 ◼   ► can always pop up a a dialogue for in

00:05:32 ◼   ► the same way that like when they added

00:05:33 ◼   ► the mail compose UI ways we can write

00:05:37 ◼   ► emails within our apps without having to

00:05:38 ◼   ► go out to the mail app they did that in

00:05:40 ◼   ► a way that we can always pop that up

00:05:42 ◼   ► it's not like we're going to request

00:05:43 ◼   ► that we're going to request a compose

00:05:46 ◼   ► page and doesn't show up it actually

00:05:47 ◼   ► isn't true but but you could query it to

00:05:50 ◼   ► determine whether it was enabled or not

00:05:52 ◼   ► sure but that would be what you're

00:05:54 ◼   ► saying there's like the can send mail

00:05:55 ◼   ► part which is if the does the user have

00:05:57 ◼   ► mail configured on their on their iPhone

00:05:59 ◼   ► but assuming they have a mail account

00:06:01 ◼   ► configured with our iPhone it'll always

00:06:03 ◼   ► show up is why I guess what I'm getting

00:06:05 ◼   ► at but here Apple has has the ability to

00:06:08 ◼   ► do to dial this backwards and forwards

00:06:10 ◼   ► and so they've initially said through a

00:06:12 ◼   ► couple of interviews it seemed like they

00:06:14 ◼   ► gave too daring fireball and Jim Delrin

00:06:18 ◼   ► thought at the loop they're good

00:06:21 ◼   ► basically if you're never going to show

00:06:23 ◼   ► it with a user a prompt more than three

00:06:25 ◼   ► times a year I believe and if they set a

00:06:28 ◼   ► if they actually do send us to send a

00:06:31 ◼   ► review they won't be asked again for a

00:06:32 ◼   ► year so if you asked you know every time

00:06:34 ◼   ► the app launched you said hey it's a

00:06:36 ◼   ► great time to send a review

00:06:38 ◼   ► after doing that three times it'll stop

00:06:40 ◼   ► working in a transparent way to you for

00:06:43 ◼   ► a whole year there's also a master

00:06:45 ◼   ► switch in the Settings app that a

00:06:47 ◼   ► customer can say I never want to see

00:06:49 ◼   ► these and if you flip that switch

00:06:50 ◼   ► irrespective of how much the developer

00:06:53 ◼   ► is saying hey review me review me review

00:06:55 ◼   ► me it'll never actually work which

00:06:57 ◼   ► overall I think this is a good step

00:06:59 ◼   ► forward it's I'm not sure if I'm gonna

00:07:01 ◼   ► use it I think I probably won't

00:07:04 ◼   ► initially because it's still modal and

00:07:06 ◼   ► rather just used the deep linking into

00:07:09 ◼   ► the app store from a button in my

00:07:10 ◼   ► settings page but I like at the very

00:07:13 ◼   ► least that Apple is diving into this and

00:07:16 ◼   ► taking it seriously do you think you're

00:07:17 ◼   ► gonna use it probably not for the same

00:07:20 ◼   ► reason if you know it is still modal and

00:07:22 ◼   ► everything but I really do love like

00:07:26 ◼   ► it's this is such you know as usually

00:07:28 ◼   ► this is actually an amazing a very Apple

00:07:31 ◼   ► II solution to a problem it's so clever

00:07:33 ◼   ► and it's like you know here was this

00:07:35 ◼   ► problem of developers having a very

00:07:37 ◼   ► strong incentive to make the user

00:07:39 ◼   ► experience worse for people and and you

00:07:42 ◼   ► know it was extra work for developers to

00:07:44 ◼   ► have to integrate some library or to

00:07:46 ◼   ► build their own you know little pop-up

00:07:48 ◼   ► things and you know so it was like you

00:07:49 ◼   ► take this this kind of dirty messy

00:07:52 ◼   ► problem and you apply a really elegant

00:07:54 ◼   ► combination of solutions to it which is

00:07:56 ◼   ► we're gonna standardize this we're gonna

00:07:57 ◼   ► make it easier when people do want to

00:07:59 ◼   ► leave ratings cuz like have you seen the

00:08:01 ◼   ► box yet it's like a the one in the bay

00:08:03 ◼   ► they like it just pops up with a little

00:08:05 ◼   ► like you know one through five stars and

00:08:06 ◼   ► submit and so it's actually easier to

00:08:09 ◼   ► submit ratings this way as a user

00:08:11 ◼   ► because you don't have to bounce into

00:08:13 ◼   ► the App Store app and submit something

00:08:14 ◼   ► there and login type in your password

00:08:15 ◼   ► you you just have it all in a modal

00:08:17 ◼   ► dialog right there in the app so it's

00:08:19 ◼   ► easier for the developer because it's

00:08:21 ◼   ► one line of code it's easier for the

00:08:23 ◼   ► user because to actually leave the

00:08:25 ◼   ► rating and it's faster and everything

00:08:26 ◼   ► and in the most typical wonderful Apple

00:08:29 ◼   ► fashion it puts all the control of this

00:08:31 ◼   ► back on the user so the user can then as

00:08:34 ◼   ► you said go into that setting go into

00:08:35 ◼   ► system settings and disable these

00:08:37 ◼   ► globally if they want to and then the

00:08:41 ◼   ► developer has no way to tell whether

00:08:43 ◼   ► they're enabled or not and whether it's

00:08:45 ◼   ► showing or not so in theory this is an

00:08:49 ◼   ► amazing solution for both developers and

00:08:51 ◼   ► for you

00:08:51 ◼   ► users and for usability the platform

00:08:53 ◼   ► because it kind of tames this messy

00:08:55 ◼   ► thing that we all have a very strong

00:08:57 ◼   ► incentive to do in practice so and again

00:09:02 ◼   ► in theory the way this works is that at

00:09:05 ◼   ► a at a future time that is as yet

00:09:07 ◼   ► unspecified by the way I I kind of say I

00:09:10 ◼   ► really am NOT crazy about the way Apple

00:09:13 ◼   ► has very minimally documented this on

00:09:17 ◼   ► the page and then has given additional

00:09:20 ◼   ► documentation through PR channels to a

00:09:23 ◼   ► couple of blogs like that I think is odd

00:09:25 ◼   ► I I know I can see why they do it I I

00:09:28 ◼   ► assume they do it so that way they can

00:09:30 ◼   ► be a little bit fuzzy and squishy with

00:09:32 ◼   ► the rules and change them later as they

00:09:33 ◼   ► evolve and as the situation evolves as

00:09:36 ◼   ► they learn how do you think you're used

00:09:37 ◼   ► in practice but I don't like the idea

00:09:39 ◼   ► that you have to be monitoring different

00:09:41 ◼   ► blogs from people who are you know PR

00:09:44 ◼   ► friendly with Apple in order to get the

00:09:46 ◼   ► whole picture of what the rules are and

00:09:47 ◼   ► what the mechanics are I think it would

00:09:49 ◼   ► be a lot more effective for Apple to

00:09:51 ◼   ► choose to expand the documentation

00:09:53 ◼   ► upfront make that part of the official

00:09:55 ◼   ► statement and then we worry about later

00:09:58 ◼   ► you know the process of changing that as

00:10:00 ◼   ► as policies evolved because App Store

00:10:02 ◼   ► policy changes it's a thing like hiding

00:10:05 ◼   ► the information between different blogs

00:10:06 ◼   ► and PR channels to try to like obfuscate

00:10:09 ◼   ► it so most people don't hear it is not

00:10:11 ◼   ► the right solution anyway so one of the

00:10:14 ◼   ► bits of information out that is kind of

00:10:15 ◼   ► unclear and told through PR channels in

00:10:17 ◼   ► various ways is that it will be required

00:10:22 ◼   ► at some point in the future that all

00:10:25 ◼   ► review prompts use this API and that

00:10:28 ◼   ► other types of review prompt will be

00:10:30 ◼   ► prohibited that data is not yet been set

00:10:32 ◼   ► but at some point that would be the case

00:10:33 ◼   ► the requirement of these things be only

00:10:36 ◼   ► sent in this way and to to disallow

00:10:39 ◼   ► other types of prompting is required for

00:10:42 ◼   ► this to be a good user experience

00:10:44 ◼   ► because without that part you're gonna

00:10:47 ◼   ► have no incentive for a lot of

00:10:48 ◼   ► developers to use it it is faster yes

00:10:50 ◼   ► but developers are gonna find especially

00:10:52 ◼   ► like big data driven corporations like

00:10:54 ◼   ► you know Twitter Instagram stuff like

00:10:56 ◼   ► that they're gonna find well we get more

00:10:57 ◼   ► reviews if we just ask the old way

00:10:59 ◼   ► because that can't be disabled or

00:11:01 ◼   ► throttled by the system so and yet the

00:11:04 ◼   ► other the other interesting part of core

00:11:05 ◼   ► like all the different office keishon

00:11:07 ◼   ► the developers put in front of these

00:11:08 ◼   ► things often like they'll be like how

00:11:10 ◼   ► are you liking the app so far and if you

00:11:12 ◼   ► say you're loving it then they'll ask

00:11:13 ◼   ► you to review it and if you say I'm not

00:11:15 ◼   ► living it so much so please contact us

00:11:17 ◼   ► privately so there's all this office all

00:11:19 ◼   ► this like mess to have to work through

00:11:20 ◼   ► but unless developers are forced to only

00:11:25 ◼   ► use this system it's not going to get

00:11:26 ◼   ► better for users and Apple has said yes

00:11:29 ◼   ► they intend to do that in the future

00:11:30 ◼   ► they intend to make that a requirement

00:11:31 ◼   ► my question is how are they gonna

00:11:33 ◼   ► enforce that because already today you

00:11:37 ◼   ► have clear rules against using push

00:11:41 ◼   ► notifications for spam marketing

00:11:44 ◼   ► promotion things like that like and you

00:11:48 ◼   ► look around like every game uses it for

00:11:50 ◼   ► it for promotion every news app it like

00:11:52 ◼   ► every big company app Twitter the App

00:11:55 ◼   ► Store uses notifications sometimes for

00:11:58 ◼   ► promotional purposes and marketing

00:12:00 ◼   ► purposes like Apple can't even follow

00:12:02 ◼   ► that rule they break it all the time

00:12:04 ◼   ► everyone breaks that rule all the time

00:12:06 ◼   ► and even though there's a preview rules

00:12:09 ◼   ► against it I assume one of the reasons

00:12:11 ◼   ► why that rule goes almost completely

00:12:13 ◼   ► unenforced even unfollowed by Apple is

00:12:15 ◼   ► that it's really hard to actually

00:12:18 ◼   ► enforce that in practice without adding

00:12:20 ◼   ► like a report mechanism in the UI

00:12:22 ◼   ► because the only way apples gonna catch

00:12:24 ◼   ► people sending spam notifications or

00:12:26 ◼   ► marketing however they define it is if

00:12:29 ◼   ► it happens during like the five minutes

00:12:30 ◼   ► they're reviewing it during app review

00:12:32 ◼   ► and that's very unlikely and so in

00:12:35 ◼   ► practice that just goes effectively

00:12:37 ◼   ► unenforced and spam slash promotional

00:12:40 ◼   ► push notifications are rampant and with

00:12:44 ◼   ► this system this new review system I

00:12:46 ◼   ► wonder if that's going to like how is it

00:12:48 ◼   ► gonna be any different because if the

00:12:50 ◼   ► rule starts if it starts to become well

00:12:52 ◼   ► you have to use this mechanism only to

00:12:55 ◼   ► ask people to review you in the App

00:12:56 ◼   ► Store when are they gonna actually

00:12:58 ◼   ► enforce that aren't gonna have people

00:13:00 ◼   ► like using every app on the App Store

00:13:02 ◼   ► for three days to see if they get

00:13:03 ◼   ► prompted or not and so the only way to

00:13:05 ◼   ► enforce that is you that is to have some

00:13:08 ◼   ► kind of reporting system after the fact

00:13:09 ◼   ► but I can't possibly see Apple gumming

00:13:12 ◼   ► up the UI of iOS like where would it be

00:13:14 ◼   ► like the 3d touch menu like with a share

00:13:16 ◼   ► thing is like III can't see them going

00:13:18 ◼   ► up the

00:13:19 ◼   ► the iOS UI anywhere with like a report

00:13:22 ◼   ► bad behavior of this app button I mean

00:13:24 ◼   ► it'd be interesting if they did I'm not

00:13:25 ◼   ► sure if that would be overall good or

00:13:27 ◼   ► not for the system but for the purpose

00:13:29 ◼   ► of like enforcement of tricky rules like

00:13:32 ◼   ► this I don't see any other way to do it

00:13:33 ◼   ► and without that enforcement of that

00:13:35 ◼   ► rule without very strict enforcement of

00:13:38 ◼   ► that rule I don't see how the system is

00:13:41 ◼   ► going to actually fix the problem for

00:13:44 ◼   ► developers who have a company and big

00:13:48 ◼   ► data behind them saying they still to do

00:13:49 ◼   ► it the old way sure I mean I see where

00:13:53 ◼   ► you're coming from but I I kind of maybe

00:13:55 ◼   ► I have more slightly more hope for the

00:13:56 ◼   ► future because I see this thing and I

00:14:00 ◼   ► see what like I like when they say

00:14:02 ◼   ► that's at some point in the future this

00:14:03 ◼   ► will be the only sanctioned way to do

00:14:05 ◼   ► this my I tend to read this as in iOS

00:14:10 ◼   ► 10.3 it'll be fine but in iOS 11 it

00:14:13 ◼   ► probably won't like if I had a guess at

00:14:15 ◼   ► what that timeline will be is that this

00:14:18 ◼   ► you know this June ish at WDC they'll be

00:14:23 ◼   ► unveiling whatever it is they're going

00:14:24 ◼   ► to be doing for iOS 11 and as part of

00:14:27 ◼   ► the rules that will go into effect for

00:14:30 ◼   ► this fall the you know this will be one

00:14:32 ◼   ► of the new rules that if you want to you

00:14:34 ◼   ► know in a modally prompt user for a

00:14:36 ◼   ► review you must do it using the Bree

00:14:39 ◼   ► approved API the enforcement question is

00:14:42 ◼   ► I mean it's always been it's always

00:14:44 ◼   ► rough but just to serve to say that it's

00:14:46 ◼   ► incredibly difficult to enforce or

00:14:48 ◼   ► police doesn't mean that it's not a good

00:14:50 ◼   ► policy and I mean I think there's ways

00:14:52 ◼   ► that Apple can enforce it

00:14:55 ◼   ► programmatically both in terms of

00:14:58 ◼   ► obviously they know if people when

00:15:04 ◼   ► people are leaving reviews they know

00:15:05 ◼   ► where they're coming from what they were

00:15:07 ◼   ► doing before that like there's a certain

00:15:09 ◼   ► amount of exposure that they have on the

00:15:12 ◼   ► data side that if an app is seeming to

00:15:16 ◼   ► send users to the App Store to leave

00:15:19 ◼   ► reviews in a at a pace that seems

00:15:23 ◼   ► inconsistent with the install base for

00:15:26 ◼   ► example like my guess is they have a

00:15:27 ◼   ► fairly good sense of you know what the

00:15:30 ◼   ► you know what the typical rate for a

00:15:32 ◼   ► reviews for an app based on how many

00:15:34 ◼   ► people are using it is and things like I

00:15:37 ◼   ► think they have tools from the data side

00:15:39 ◼   ► on the back end using many many ways

00:15:41 ◼   ► they could sort of piggyback on what

00:15:43 ◼   ► they've done iTunes Connect analytics

00:15:45 ◼   ► which like have their drawbacks but at

00:15:47 ◼   ► least give them a starting point that I

00:15:48 ◼   ► imagine you with a little bit of math

00:15:50 ◼   ► you could work out this app is clearly

00:15:52 ◼   ► getting way more reviews than it should

00:15:56 ◼   ► for you know if for use for using via

00:16:00 ◼   ► the approaches that we expect and from

00:16:02 ◼   ► that perspective can sort of chase that

00:16:04 ◼   ► down and kind of work work that out but

00:16:06 ◼   ► ultimately like exactly how they police

00:16:08 ◼   ► it I think is you know that's an

00:16:11 ◼   ► enforcement problem that's something

00:16:12 ◼   ► that we deal with a lot in the App Store

00:16:13 ◼   ► and I think I mean what and the

00:16:16 ◼   ► unfortunate thing is what Apple often

00:16:17 ◼   ► seems to do is they'll fight they'll

00:16:19 ◼   ► pick a few like examples the land to be

00:16:24 ◼   ► made of and I'll have all some app is

00:16:26 ◼   ► going to get pulled out of the App Store

00:16:28 ◼   ► for a week because they prompted for

00:16:32 ◼   ► review after the policy goes to effect

00:16:34 ◼   ► and that kind of 10 you can kind of

00:16:36 ◼   ► scare people into compliance down the

00:16:38 ◼   ► road which it's not great if that if you

00:16:40 ◼   ► if you're that app but you know as

00:16:42 ◼   ► you're saying like it's a really hard

00:16:43 ◼   ► thing to perforce it also doesn't work

00:16:45 ◼   ► like that only works if all iOS

00:16:47 ◼   ► developers are part of the same

00:16:48 ◼   ► community and everyone follows the rules

00:16:50 ◼   ► and neither of those things are true

00:16:50 ◼   ► sure but I mean it's I mean I think it's

00:16:55 ◼   ► one of these things if they're never

00:16:56 ◼   ► going to get a hundred percent

00:16:57 ◼   ► compliance but if they can get eighty

00:16:59 ◼   ► percent compliance that's still probably

00:17:01 ◼   ► good enough and so I like that it says

00:17:04 ◼   ► that's this is their policy this is

00:17:05 ◼   ► where they're heading down the road

00:17:08 ◼   ► there'll be a world where most of the

00:17:10 ◼   ► time if you're a user who just doesn't

00:17:12 ◼   ► want to leave reviews you can flip a

00:17:13 ◼   ► master switch otherwise you'll be

00:17:15 ◼   ► prompted three times a year to do it

00:17:18 ◼   ► in a standardized way with this you know

00:17:20 ◼   ► a non sort of scammy interaction and I

00:17:24 ◼   ► like that but I'm sorry I mean I just

00:17:27 ◼   ► have more hope for that that if they've

00:17:30 ◼   ► invested all this effort in building out

00:17:32 ◼   ► building this API and taking this

00:17:34 ◼   ► problem seriously if they're also going

00:17:35 ◼   ► to be serious about the enforcement side

00:17:37 ◼   ► and do their best to make that work yeah

00:17:41 ◼   ► I hope so I guess we'll see also a point

00:17:43 ◼   ► of clarification you you breeze by it

00:17:45 ◼   ► earlier but I do want to clarify

00:17:46 ◼   ► a lot of people are getting this wrong

00:17:47 ◼   ► on Twitter that linking people out with

00:17:50 ◼   ► a thing with like a page like in your in

00:17:52 ◼   ► your settings like like what you and I

00:17:53 ◼   ► do like you know I have like my little

00:17:55 ◼   ► thing and overcast setting and saying

00:17:56 ◼   ► this many people review you know have

00:17:58 ◼   ► you read this version click here to go

00:17:59 ◼   ► leave a review that's still both

00:18:02 ◼   ► possible and allowed Apple has clarified

00:18:04 ◼   ► that in some of these PR statements that

00:18:07 ◼   ► you can still do that that will still

00:18:08 ◼   ► work it just won't use this API you can

00:18:11 ◼   ► use his API additionally if you want to

00:18:12 ◼   ► but leaking out to the page via an

00:18:15 ◼   ► explicit user action is still permitted

00:18:17 ◼   ► as long as you didn't do a modal dialog

00:18:19 ◼   ► box which again is it's like the

00:18:21 ◼   ► distinctions here are gonna make this

00:18:22 ◼   ► harder and hard to enforce but anyway

00:18:24 ◼   ► hopefully we'll cross that bridge when

00:18:25 ◼   ► we get there anyway we're a sponsor this

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00:19:21 ◼   ► connect with opportunity so the other

00:19:23 ◼   ► part that we probably should dive into

00:19:24 ◼   ► about this whole system is so once

00:19:27 ◼   ► people have left the reviews in whatever

00:19:28 ◼   ► mechanism you've used to get them to

00:19:32 ◼   ► that page whether it's the modal pop-up

00:19:34 ◼   ► you're linking to them from the settings

00:19:36 ◼   ► page in your App Store or in your

00:19:38 ◼   ► Settings app in your screen or they just

00:19:39 ◼   ► went to the App Store themselves in 10.3

00:19:43 ◼   ► we're going to also have the ability to

00:19:45 ◼   ► respond to customer views that are left

00:19:48 ◼   ► in the App Store exactly how this looks

00:19:51 ◼   ► is a bit up to debate but I mean this is

00:19:53 ◼   ► something that the Google Play Store for

00:19:55 ◼   ► example has had for a while so I imagine

00:19:57 ◼   ► level have a similar kind of appearance

00:19:58 ◼   ► where in the you know

00:20:00 ◼   ► you went to the ratings interview

00:20:02 ◼   ► section of an app's page a customer

00:20:04 ◼   ► leaves a review underneath of it there

00:20:07 ◼   ► may be a little you know it'll be a

00:20:08 ◼   ► little bubble that says that the

00:20:10 ◼   ► developer can put some text into and

00:20:12 ◼   ► they'll probably be some limits on to

00:20:14 ◼   ► the number of characters or things like

00:20:15 ◼   ► that but you know the expectation I

00:20:17 ◼   ► think is that those we're going to be

00:20:19 ◼   ► going into iTunes Connect and if there's

00:20:21 ◼   ► already actually I'm not sure if how

00:20:24 ◼   ► many people actually ever go there but

00:20:25 ◼   ► in iTunes Connect if you dig around a

00:20:27 ◼   ► little bit there's actually a ratings

00:20:28 ◼   ► and reviews area for your app or it

00:20:31 ◼   ► shows you all the reviews that I've ever

00:20:32 ◼   ► been left and my guess is they're just

00:20:34 ◼   ► gonna add a little text box underneath

00:20:36 ◼   ► all of those where you know we can

00:20:38 ◼   ► log-in to iTunes Connect and go through

00:20:39 ◼   ► and respond to this and I think we've

00:20:42 ◼   ► had a few clear clarifications about

00:20:44 ◼   ► this where it's not going to be like a

00:20:46 ◼   ► threaded conversation they're not

00:20:48 ◼   ► turning the reviews section into like a

00:20:51 ◼   ► forum but it's going to be you know

00:20:53 ◼   ► though a customer can write a review and

00:20:55 ◼   ► a developer can write a response and

00:20:58 ◼   ► both parties can edit those with you

00:21:01 ◼   ► know the review or the response as makes

00:21:02 ◼   ► sense

00:21:03 ◼   ► but it's not like we're gonna have it

00:21:04 ◼   ► back and forth I like this I think I

00:21:09 ◼   ► like it mostly just from the perspective

00:21:11 ◼   ► of one of the most like discouraging

00:21:13 ◼   ► things who ever run into is when you

00:21:16 ◼   ► read a review which it granted I don't

00:21:18 ◼   ► do as much anymore but it's still

00:21:19 ◼   ► something I do from time to time and you

00:21:21 ◼   ► you encounter a user who says like they

00:21:25 ◼   ► like the app but they wish it did X and

00:21:29 ◼   ► maybe they hold a hostage star about

00:21:30 ◼   ► that you know it's a four it's a fourth

00:21:32 ◼   ► give it four stars I would give it a

00:21:34 ◼   ► five if it could do this you're lucky if

00:21:35 ◼   ► they only hold one star back for them I

00:21:37 ◼   ► mean maybe it's a double hostage star

00:21:39 ◼   ► situation like there's lots of you know

00:21:40 ◼   ► variables to come into play here but if

00:21:42 ◼   ► they do that and it turns out the app

00:21:44 ◼   ► actually does that and they just don't

00:21:45 ◼   ► know how to do it like this seems like a

00:21:47 ◼   ► great tool for being able to say hey if

00:21:51 ◼   ► you you know click on this button you

00:21:54 ◼   ► are actually able to do this and you can

00:21:55 ◼   ► hopefully clarify those

00:21:56 ◼   ► misunderstandings it's obviously not

00:21:59 ◼   ► going to be a great mechanism to do like

00:22:00 ◼   ► details customer support my guess is a

00:22:03 ◼   ► lot of developers responses to these are

00:22:06 ◼   ► just going to be I'm sorry you're having

00:22:07 ◼   ► trouble with this please email needs to

00:22:10 ◼   ► you know to go deeper on this into

00:22:13 ◼   ► actually

00:22:13 ◼   ► your problem so in that sense like it's

00:22:16 ◼   ► not gonna be a great venue for that but

00:22:18 ◼   ► I think there's it's nice though for it

00:22:20 ◼   ► if a other customer comes around and

00:22:22 ◼   ► they you know this you know here's this

00:22:25 ◼   ► this two-star review that says hey the

00:22:28 ◼   ► app doesn't do this or it didn't do this

00:22:30 ◼   ► right or something like that and then

00:22:32 ◼   ► underneath of it it says that you know

00:22:33 ◼   ► there's a developer response that says

00:22:35 ◼   ► I'm sorry you have this trouble you

00:22:36 ◼   ► can't actually do that here's how you do

00:22:38 ◼   ► it if you need more help you know send

00:22:40 ◼   ► me an email and I'm happy to walk that

00:22:41 ◼   ► through like that sets up a great I

00:22:44 ◼   ► think a better it turns a negative

00:22:46 ◼   ► customer experience into you potentially

00:22:48 ◼   ► a positive one I'm not super excited

00:22:52 ◼   ► though but it's like another inbox that

00:22:54 ◼   ► we have to manage and another thing that

00:22:57 ◼   ► we just sorta have to keep up with like

00:22:59 ◼   ► there's this new bit of busy work but I

00:23:01 ◼   ► mean the reality is overall I'd rather

00:23:02 ◼   ► that's something a system like this or

00:23:04 ◼   ► at least I can do something to respond

00:23:07 ◼   ► to these like these misunderstandings or

00:23:10 ◼   ► these bad reviews and hopefully turn

00:23:12 ◼   ► them around a little bit but you know

00:23:14 ◼   ► very high days I'm probably just gonna

00:23:15 ◼   ► end up sorry I haven't hired someone to

00:23:18 ◼   ► do my customer support for me and this

00:23:19 ◼   ► will just likely be another inbox that

00:23:21 ◼   ► he goes through in a regular basis to

00:23:23 ◼   ► kind of respond and clean up and you

00:23:27 ◼   ► know hopefully it'll make that the

00:23:28 ◼   ► section of the app store a little bit

00:23:29 ◼   ► more useful I suppose like right now

00:23:31 ◼   ► it's just not yeah I mean I suppose

00:23:34 ◼   ► it'll depend a lot on what kind of

00:23:36 ◼   ► uptake this gets and just a lot of

00:23:38 ◼   ► implementation details you know two

00:23:40 ◼   ► weeks ago when we talked about reading

00:23:41 ◼   ► after reviews my position was I almost

00:23:44 ◼   ► never read them you don't really need to

00:23:45 ◼   ► I don't think many people do for apps

00:23:48 ◼   ► that have sufficient star ratings they

00:23:50 ◼   ► just looked at the star rating average

00:23:51 ◼   ► and then make a decision for the most

00:23:52 ◼   ► part and there are a lot of people who

00:23:54 ◼   ► read their every review so it's not that

00:23:56 ◼   ► big of a deal

00:23:57 ◼   ► and of course I can all these problems

00:23:59 ◼   ► are are shifted and magnified or

00:24:01 ◼   ► minimized based on whether you have a

00:24:03 ◼   ► lot of reviews are very few reviews but

00:24:05 ◼   ► assuming you have like a moderate to

00:24:07 ◼   ► high amount you know it's these things

00:24:10 ◼   ► all over again so anyway it depends a

00:24:12 ◼   ► lot on like how many customers are

00:24:14 ◼   ► actually reading these things like and

00:24:17 ◼   ► then also how many developers will be

00:24:18 ◼   ► responding you know if it's the kind of

00:24:20 ◼   ► thing that's pretty rare that almost no

00:24:21 ◼   ► developers end up doing in any kind of

00:24:23 ◼   ► reasonable quantity and that most

00:24:25 ◼   ► customers don't end up

00:24:27 ◼   ► expecting or reading or seeing then it's

00:24:30 ◼   ► completely optional whether you do it or

00:24:32 ◼   ► not and you probably don't need to

00:24:33 ◼   ► because that's you know a lot of time

00:24:35 ◼   ► and effort for zero to one person to see

00:24:38 ◼   ► you know but if it ends up being

00:24:41 ◼   ► something that that is important which

00:24:43 ◼   ► again it depends on implementation

00:24:45 ◼   ► details there's a lot of questions like

00:24:47 ◼   ► you know where do we respond I assume we

00:24:49 ◼   ► respond to these and iTunes Connect

00:24:50 ◼   ► somewhere if so that is a massive

00:24:53 ◼   ► opportunity for third party developer if

00:24:55 ◼   ► you need an idea for your next Mac app

00:24:57 ◼   ► or web service make that happen make it

00:25:00 ◼   ► so that you can like scrape all the

00:25:03 ◼   ► reviews from all the different languages

00:25:04 ◼   ► all the different country stores have

00:25:06 ◼   ► some kind of built-in translation

00:25:08 ◼   ► function and give us a way to reply

00:25:09 ◼   ► easily you will set that to every iOS

00:25:11 ◼   ► developer who cares you can sell that

00:25:13 ◼   ► for like 10 bucks a month easy anyway so

00:25:15 ◼   ► anybody can use an idea get on that if

00:25:18 ◼   ► not app figures that's your next thing

00:25:19 ◼   ► all right so you know and a lot of you

00:25:23 ◼   ► nation details matter so for instance is

00:25:24 ◼   ► the customer notified when you respond

00:25:27 ◼   ► to their review you know like that like

00:25:29 ◼   ► that's that's a big question cuz a lot

00:25:31 ◼   ► of these reviews I think are kind of

00:25:33 ◼   ► like you know hit and run like they're

00:25:35 ◼   ► not gonna actually come back and check

00:25:37 ◼   ► to see if you responded most of the time

00:25:39 ◼   ► again if that's not done if the customer

00:25:41 ◼   ► is not notified that you responded and

00:25:43 ◼   ► preferably with your response in the

00:25:45 ◼   ► notification email or whatever then it's

00:25:47 ◼   ► gonna be a lot less valuable for you to

00:25:50 ◼   ► reply so again this depends a lot on the

00:25:52 ◼   ► details that we don't know yet but I

00:25:55 ◼   ► think those are my two big questions is

00:25:57 ◼   ► like will people see your response

00:25:59 ◼   ► really in mass and then and and to like

00:26:02 ◼   ► you know and and then - will the author

00:26:04 ◼   ► of the comment of the review see your

00:26:06 ◼   ► response that that will decide whether

00:26:09 ◼   ► this is worth doing or not this this

00:26:11 ◼   ► could turn my advice in - yes go read

00:26:13 ◼   ► your reviews and respond in a reasonable

00:26:15 ◼   ► amount of time - things that that

00:26:16 ◼   ► deserve a response it's probably just

00:26:19 ◼   ► gonna be a whole buncha like form

00:26:21 ◼   ► responses from like you know you

00:26:24 ◼   ► mentioned it'll be developer saying oh

00:26:26 ◼   ► please email me it'll be big companies

00:26:28 ◼   ► that doing that like it'll be like the

00:26:30 ◼   ► big companies where they say like where

00:26:32 ◼   ► every update they say the changes in the

00:26:34 ◼   ► changelog are bug fixes and improvements

00:26:36 ◼   ► to make your life better look at our

00:26:38 ◼   ► full review notes at facebook.com slash

00:26:39 ◼   ► whatever like

00:26:41 ◼   ► you're gonna see like Instagram Facebook

00:26:42 ◼   ► Twitter like they're gonna be responding

00:26:45 ◼   ► to every single review with some kind of

00:26:47 ◼   ► useless form response but it's it's

00:26:50 ◼   ► really up to up in the air whether

00:26:51 ◼   ► people like us like smaller developers

00:26:54 ◼   ► who will actually respond in a human

00:26:55 ◼   ► fashion and might actually give useful

00:26:57 ◼   ► responses other than please contact us

00:26:59 ◼   ► so privately you know that remains to be

00:27:02 ◼   ► seen how that'll go and the the value of

00:27:05 ◼   ► this system and how much of a support

00:27:07 ◼   ► burden the system is will all depend on

00:27:09 ◼   ► those implementation details and how

00:27:12 ◼   ► many people actually read them what I do

00:27:14 ◼   ► like though is that it is I think you

00:27:16 ◼   ► feel like it provides an opportunity for

00:27:18 ◼   ► a smaller developer to like one of the

00:27:21 ◼   ► things that I when I was early on to be

00:27:24 ◼   ► like being independent like I'd always

00:27:27 ◼   ► you know write things in the third

00:27:29 ◼   ► person and talk and talk as though I was

00:27:32 ◼   ► a big company because I thought that's

00:27:34 ◼   ► like yeah like like we've been working

00:27:36 ◼   ► hard on this - on this update it's like

00:27:37 ◼   ► no I've been working hard in this update

00:27:39 ◼   ► I'm the only one writing code like it's

00:27:41 ◼   ► just me and it's kind of dishonest to

00:27:43 ◼   ► project something otherwise and so I do

00:27:45 ◼   ► like about this though is that it does

00:27:48 ◼   ► give an opportunity to feel it's like to

00:27:52 ◼   ► show the world that person that personal

00:27:55 ◼   ► level that it's like I can respond to

00:27:57 ◼   ► something directly and in a human

00:28:00 ◼   ► authentic way and over the long term I

00:28:03 ◼   ► found that since I stopped trying to do

00:28:04 ◼   ► that and I made things more personal I

00:28:07 ◼   ► feel like that has engendered a much

00:28:09 ◼   ► higher affections a weird word for

00:28:12 ◼   ► something like this but it's that same

00:28:13 ◼   ► kind of feeling of like people like me

00:28:16 ◼   ► and like my software because they like

00:28:18 ◼   ► me and so I do like that it's going to

00:28:20 ◼   ► be something that we can kind of react

00:28:22 ◼   ► and be a bit more personal in yeah

00:28:25 ◼   ► humanizes us and and I think that will

00:28:26 ◼   ► make people be less nasty sure and I

00:28:29 ◼   ► think honestly that's that's another

00:28:30 ◼   ► example of something that even really

00:28:32 ◼   ► thought of but I wonder if - if it'll

00:28:35 ◼   ► improve the quality of reviews that are

00:28:38 ◼   ► left you know in the same we always joke

00:28:40 ◼   ► about oh we never read our reviews

00:28:41 ◼   ► they're all so awful and nasty but if

00:28:43 ◼   ► customers who leave nasty reviews start

00:28:46 ◼   ► being responded to by humans and people

00:28:49 ◼   ► they may be less inclined at least for

00:28:53 ◼   ► some people may be less inclined to

00:28:54 ◼   ► leave those reviews than if they and if

00:28:56 ◼   ► in their mind they're just kind of you

00:28:58 ◼   ► know it's a big mega horn that a big

00:29:00 ◼   ► megaphone that they can just shout at

00:29:02 ◼   ► the world and then run away from if it's

00:29:04 ◼   ► actually like you know they shout at the

00:29:06 ◼   ► world and then the person who they were

00:29:07 ◼   ► shouting at comes back and talks to them

00:29:09 ◼   ► in a calm collected way

00:29:11 ◼   ► maybe they'll felt you know second-guess

00:29:13 ◼   ► that choice next time and it'll improve

00:29:16 ◼   ► the discord maybe that's just again me

00:29:17 ◼   ► just me my hopeful wishful thinking but

00:29:19 ◼   ► you know a man can dream all right and

00:29:23 ◼   ► with that we're out of time thank you

00:29:25 ◼   ► everybody for listening and we'll talk

00:29:26 ◼   ► to you next week bye