The Accidental Tech Podcast

00:00:00 ◼   ► why is chrome using a hundred percent of [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► my CPU because Chrome oh I know why I [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► have an apple tab open that's why you [TS]

00:00:06 ◼   ► know when they added that thing where [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► they put like a little speaker icon [TS]

00:00:09 ◼   ► which by the way this is kind of like a [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► telephone icon it's one of those things [TS]

00:00:12 ◼   ► that I wonder about people how people [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► recognize it except just by like pattern [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► matching like you know the you know the [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► speaker icon looks like a paper cone [TS]

00:00:22 ◼   ► with a little magnet coiled like but in [TS]

00:00:25 ◼   ► profile show you like which tab is [TS]

00:00:27 ◼   ► making sound yeah with the sound wave [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► coming out of it do people even know [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► that that's supposed to be a speaker do [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► they just think that's the sound symbol [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► anyway because who the hell knows what a [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► speaker looks like these days right [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► certainly the speakers in our phones and [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► iPads don't look like that I mean they [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► have the same part maybe they have [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► similar parts fulfilling similar look [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► like anyway they have that thing where [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► you can find oh what tab is making the [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► noise like Safari has it in chrome has [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► it they have some way for you to find [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► the tab that's making the noise which is [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► like oh that's great this is a good [TS]

00:00:56 ◼   ► feature they recognize this this need [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► it's annoying when you can't find the [TS]

00:00:59 ◼   ► tab that's making noise then you find it [TS]

00:01:01 ◼   ► and you know kill it or close it but [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► then we when you relaunch the browser [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► and it like restores the state of your [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► previous session all of the tabs that [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► were they could possibly make noise like [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► everything you start to autoplay yeah [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► you have seven seven YouTube videos and [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► they all start playing it's like whoa [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► you're so close you're like you've given [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► the information to stop one when they [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► start spontaneously or lose track and [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► you don't autoplay when tabs load in the [TS]

00:01:25 ◼   ► background but when i rewatch from you [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► note and restore a state it says you [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► know what I bet this person wants seven [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► YouTube videos all play at the same time [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► let me do that and then yes I can find [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► them and stop them all one by one you [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► know what a solution of this problem is [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► John having fewer tabs couple of tabs [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► open that is a completely reasonable [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► solution doesn't say it doesn't make [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► many like I think I only had four tabs [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► playing but you know because I had a [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► bunch of YouTube videos up you know [TS]

00:01:51 ◼   ► doing YouTube research right and you [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► have a bunch of videos open in tabs [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► which is fine you watch them one at a [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► time you leave them open some of them [TS]

00:01:57 ◼   ► are like pause in the middle but then [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► you launch your browser for whatever [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► reason and they all start playing [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► alright so I have some follow-up about [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► my MacBook / MacBook one slash Mac look [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► adorable [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► you've made it already don't no no no [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► there are people that are very perturbed [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► about the MacBook adorable nickname and [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► I think your monsters not really but I [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► don't understand why people are so upset [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► by this a lot of people wrote in to [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► recommend a particular kind of port [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► replicator that apparently will solve [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► all of my problems because it has power [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► in it has a thorough net it has USB [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► ports it has an SD card reader and on [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► the surface they are correct but the [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► reason I didn't buy this was a couple [TS]

00:02:39 ◼   ► one it was very expensive although the [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► sum total of the other dongles I got was [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► probably at least as much if not more [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► than this is and we'll put an example on [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► the show notes but there appear to be [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► like seven different manufacturers at [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► all white label or excuse me sever [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► different several different companies [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► that all white label the same thing [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► that's manufactured by gosh knows who [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► yeah but anyway the main reason I was [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► not in terribly interested in this is [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► from what I had seen when I did a little [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► bit of research in order to get the [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► Ethernet port to work you have to [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► install a kernel extension like a [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► specific driver or whatever it was like [TS]

00:03:15 ◼   ► nope I'm out and that was problem number [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► one and problem number two is it looks [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► very small and it appears on the surface [TS]

00:03:25 ◼   ► to be very small but in actuality it is [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► quite large or larger than I would want [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► and like when I went to Chicago last [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► week with the adorable I didn't bring [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► the ethernet / USB [TS]

00:03:36 ◼   ► I almost said hub I guess it is kind of [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► a hub but anyway I didn't bring that [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► dongle I only brought the HDMI dongle [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► which I actually used more than a couple [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► of times and it worked out very nicely [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► but uh but my point is that I do like [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► the flexibility of only bringing the one [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► or ones that I absolutely need and not [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► bringing the one or ones that I don't [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► need so I thought I would just mention [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► that but I do appreciate the feedback I [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► honestly do because sometimes I don't [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► see everything and then finally I just [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► wanted to point out that I also wrote a [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► blog post a review of my MacBook [TS]

00:04:08 ◼   ► adorable so if you want many more words [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► than we've already spoken on this [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► podcast about the MacBook feel free to [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► check that out [TS]

00:04:16 ◼   ► I enjoyed the review thanks thanks I [TS]

00:04:19 ◼   ► appreciate it it was actually a lot [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► longer than I intended and for a while I [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► thought maybe I'll go through and try to [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► cut what I can and then I thought you [TS]

00:04:25 ◼   ► what I'm just gonna leave it because I'd [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► love to say because I really like this [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► thing anyway we will put links in the [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► show notes but uh yeah I really like [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► this adorable it is not the fastest [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► thing in the world but it is quick [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► enough for me and that's all that [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► matters [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► speaking of these sorts of things Connor [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► Brooks writes in and says here's some [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► comparison pictures of the 27 excuse me [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► 2016 vs. 2017 key caps there have been [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► there's been a small revision this [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► Connor says I've heard that the retrofit [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► is known internally as a shim kit and to [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► be honest with you I can't really see [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► the difference which probably means I'm [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► completely missing it I'm sure this [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► picture is completely fine I couldn't [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► see it either okay good that makes me [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► feel a little better yeah I wish there [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► was like red arrows or circle like look [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► here here's the back and forth and I'm [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► like I could not speak am I looking at [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► the underside of the key caps I will say [TS]

00:05:16 ◼   ► though I have had a chance to I got a [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► chance to try typing on a 2017 MacBook [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► Pro in a store and and it really is [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► actually a different feeling they they [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► it is not like a dramatic difference it [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► doesn't feel like a whole different type [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► of keyboard but it does feel a little [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► softer at like almost as if they put [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► like a rubber mat under all the keys so [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► like your like your your when you bottom [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► out the key it feels like you're [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► bottoming out on something rubbery [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► instead of something flat and it sounds [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► different as well so I think that [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► actually is a nice improvement is it [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► quieter slightly yeah it's it's a little [TS]

00:05:51 ◼   ► more dull sounding and a little more [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► dull feeling like it really does feel [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► like they just added some rubber [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► somewhere which i think is actually what [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► they did but it it is it seems like it's [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► better I still would not describe this [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► as a good keyboard but they are [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► incrementally making it more tolerable [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► and if this if they also took this [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► opportunity to fix whatever was causing [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► the keys to stick and fail then I get [TS]

00:06:16 ◼   ► too aggressive I know so but yeah I hope [TS]

00:06:18 ◼   ► yeah it's and maybe this is it maybe it [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► maybe it needed some kind of you know [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► rubber o-ring around a certain part or [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► something I don't I don't know the [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► details but the the 2017 s do definitely [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► feel slightly but noticeably different [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► yeah I gotta tell you and I talked about [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► this in my review so I'm not gonna [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► belabor it but when I first got the [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► keyboard [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► I was like oh I mean I knew what I was [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► getting into but at the same time no and [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► then I kind of got into like the little [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► work I actually kind of liked it now [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► that's it I don't I don't know if I like [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► that I like it though because I love my [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► magic keyboard I I can never come back I [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► know so I I do prefer the magic keyboard [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► and I think in no small part because I [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► prefer a deeper throw and when I when I [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► is that the right term for it basically [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► I want I want more travel when I push [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► the travel on the key I want the key to [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► depress whatever amount I don't know [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► what the amount is on the magic keyboard [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► but I find that to be perfect and on the [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► on the MacBook it does not travel into [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► the into the MacBook as much as I would [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► like and that still frustrates me a [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► little bit but you know wait and I [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► couldn't figure out how to describe it [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► in and only you guys in you know a [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► handful of people that read the review [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► will truly understand what I meant but [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► the only way I can describe it is the [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► difference between like a proper shifter [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► on a rear-wheel drive car you know we're [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► like the shifter is sitting directly [TS]

00:07:44 ◼   ► over the transmission so there's like [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► rods that are connecting the shifter [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► that you hold in your hand to the [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► transmission itself like that feeling of [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► sturdiness and notch enos and just good [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► feeling that's what the adorable [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► keyboard feels like [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► whereas especially the the on-board [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► keyboard on my older macbook pro so [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► before they went to the these and new [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► style keyboards that feels like I've [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► actually understood Honda's to have very [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► good shift linkages but like my Saturn [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► which admittedly yes it's a Saturn haha [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► I get it but the Saturn had the [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► sloppiest worst most disgusting shift [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► linkage in the world where he could [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► shimmy the stick left and right like an [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► inch either direction while the thing is [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► in gear it was terrible and that's what [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► like the old MacBook Pro feels like and [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► the magic keyboard is closer to the [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► adorable z' keyboard but not quite as [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► sturdy and that sturdiness is actually [TS]

00:08:36 ◼   ► really really really nice and I really [TS]

00:08:38 ◼   ► enjoy it and it seems so silly and and [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► if I was listening to this not having [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► really had this for a while I would [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► think you are bananas that sturdy [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► keyboard what but that's the best way I [TS]

00:08:50 ◼   ► can think of to describe it and I don't [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► know if this is your [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► Macbook what are we calling yours the [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► quick escape yeah [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► that has the same keyboard that this [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► does doesn't it well probably not [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► because you probably have the new 2017 [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► keys on that oh right yeah yeah yeah [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► right okay but it's very similar mm-hmm [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► so you find it to be more sturdy is that [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► a decent adjective for it can you figure [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► out a better way to describe it I know [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► what you mean it's it's basically like [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► what Johnny I've and his white world [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► video described as precise or stable and [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► so I know the feeling unfortunately I [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► hesitate to use the word sturdy because [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► it's unreliable in the 20 and I haven't [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► gotten it replaced by the AppleCare bar [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► yet because I just don't I haven't at [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► the time then I need to use this [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► computer but yeah so i assuming that i [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► can get this fixed it'll it'll then be [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► probably the same keyboard and then it [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► will be precise and stable and sturdy [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► and everything else but until then i [TS]

00:09:46 ◼   ► can't agree with the the specific words [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► thirty because it keeps failing fair [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► enough so coming back to the actual [TS]

00:09:52 ◼   ► point we're trying to make none of the [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► three of us can see the difference in [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► these two pictures no but there is a [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► different hundred out there right back [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► in and like mark up these diagrams or [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► you know tell us what we're supposed to [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► be seeing cuz i've looked at them for a [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► long time and i I'm not I'm not getting [TS]

00:10:09 ◼   ► it I I don't doubt that that this this [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► is accurate and you know I'm not trying [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► to say that this is fake news it's just [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► that for my eyes I cannot tell the [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► difference I'm sure there's a difference [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► but darned if I can see where it is [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► alright moving on [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► Joseph writes a very very fascinating [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► email about USBC yeah this was awesome [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► because like his last episode we I had [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► complained that one of the problems with [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► the USBC lifestyle is that you kind of [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► can't go all-in on it yet because see to [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► me the one thing I just didn't really [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► ever come around to saying but I should [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► have said is like my goal here is okay [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► if I have a laptop that has all USB C [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► ports on it let me go to Amazon and just [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► buy all new cables for everything the [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► end in USB C and then I can totally [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► avoid having to use weird adapters a [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► liver the place for almost anything [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► I'll just get USB C cables for all my [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► stuff and if I need to and I can get a [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► couple of new things like a USB C card [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► reader and [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► a couple of things and then I'm [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► converted and I can just bring USBC [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► cables with me on trips that is the [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► dream and that is pretty much impossible [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► to do in practice or it's hard to do in [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► practice because my complaint last time [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► is basically there are no USB C hubs [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► that multiply USB C ports two more USB [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► seaports the only one I knew of was the [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► one that's inside the LG 5k display [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► which converts one to three and those [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► are D and those are just USB C 3.1 not [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► you know Thunderbolt or DisplayPort [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► which we'll get to in a second all week [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► people have been sending me hubs and [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► they say oh I think this does it almost [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► none of them actually do almost every [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► other hub that people sent me this past [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► week the only thing it did was it had [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► USB C import and and a single USBC out [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► port so the best it could do is not lose [TS]

00:12:00 ◼   ► you the port but but it still would not [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► create more the only product I found [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► that actually created more there's a [TS]

00:12:08 ◼   ► Belkin hub for like 30 bucks it has one [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► star reviews everywhere because it's [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► it's totally passive and unpowered it [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► converts one USB C port to two USB C [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► ports and two USB a ports and actually [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► bought one I have one right here it's [TS]

00:12:24 ◼   ► fine [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► it is unpowered so it can't like really [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► charge anything meaningfully and you [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► can't plug in like high draw current [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► things to it but and and the reason it [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► has one star reviews everywhere is that [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► nobody expected that when they bought it [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► and it also does not do power [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► pass-through so Casey wouldn't help you [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► at all because you couldn't charge your [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► bank adorable while you while this will [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► slow down but if you have anything but a [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► macbook one so if you have any more than [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► one USB port you can plug this into one [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► of the second ones that's not being used [TS]

00:12:49 ◼   ► for power and you can you can turn more [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► important so - so this is the only thing [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► out there and everything else does not [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► do this and and so Joseph C mail which [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► is full of wonderful information about [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► us PC spec that he's very familiar with [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► basically tells us why it's so what [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► basically why aren't their hubs out [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► there that multiply USB seaports in two [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► more USB sea ports with the same [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► capabilities as the ones built into the [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► laptop right and so I'm going to read [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► most of the scene [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► it's a little bit on the long side [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► especially for feedback email but it's [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► fascinating and I think it's worth it so [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► go on go on this journey with me kids [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► the problem this is Joseph now the [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► problem with doing USBC hubs is the spec [TS]

00:13:30 ◼   ► USBC has alternate modes there's [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► Thunderbolt and DisplayPort when you go [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► into thunderbolt mode the wires are [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► completely disconnected from the USB [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► controller hand it over to the [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► Thunderbolt controller when you go into [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► the DisplayPort mode the wires are [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► completely disconnected from the USB [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► controller and handed it over to the [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► display controller the key here is that [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► this is all done at connection time so I [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► think you can see the problems with hubs [TS]

00:13:50 ◼   ► if you plug in a hub and nothing's [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► plugged into it from below then what is [TS]

00:13:54 ◼   ► it well to USB hub right so now the [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► upstream lanes from that hub or USB and [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► this is connected inside the PC or Mac [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► as USB but those ports below the hub [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► haven't changed there's still the same [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► USBC connector which can have [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► Thunderbolt or DisplayPort devices [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► plugged in so now you go to plug in a [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► display to the downstream hubs ports [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► well it can't be a display because that [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► would mean you need to the upstream port [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► to be renegotiated as a display you can [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► force the rego renegotiation but if you [TS]

00:14:20 ◼   ► did that then none of the other ports [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► downstream from the hub can now be USP [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► USB ports because the upstream port is [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► no longer USB it's DisplayPort and you [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► can see a similar issue for Thunderbolt [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► now there's an interesting thing here [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► and I'm sure somebody at Apple's thought [TS]

00:14:34 ◼   ► of it [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► Thunderbolt itself can carry DisplayPort [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► it's a Time multiplex bus and since [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► Thunderbolt is really just PCI Express [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► over a cable with the same multiplexing [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► ability of a display you can build a [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► Thunderbolt hub or dock that has a USB C [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► capable host controller in it and thus [TS]

00:14:50 ◼   ► the upstream is Thunderbolt but the [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► downstream ports can still be USB C [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► because those ports are now quote [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► unquote route ports I think Thunderbolt [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► adopting the u.s. PC connector here is [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► like a Trojan horse call it USB C but [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► instead it's really thunderbolt and [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► Thunderbolt takes over the world from [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► within the USB C spec by making the [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► default behavior of USB C to be the [TS]

00:15:11 ◼   ► thunderbolt alternate mode that is [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► fascinating I read this email and was [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► like wow this is a lot of text this is [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► the sort of email I would normally be [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► like okay whatever I am so glad I hadn't [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► spent the time because we actually did [TS]

00:15:25 ◼   ► cut some of it this was one of my [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► favorite team feedback emails ever it [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► was and it tells you basically [TS]

00:15:30 ◼   ► everything you need to know yes I have a [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► feeling however the [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► that you guys have some thoughts on this [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► yeah yeah I mean basically to summarize [TS]

00:15:36 ◼   ► like because of the way it works you you [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► basically can't make a hub that is [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► reasonably good that multiplies the [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► port's that are on the laptop that have [TS]

00:15:46 ◼   ► all the same capabilities so you it's [TS]

00:15:49 ◼   ► you're basically never gonna get one [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► that has that can multiply to like more [TS]

00:15:53 ◼   ► displays or more high very high speed [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► Thunderbolt peripherals the the problem [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► is that you know you buy USB C stuff you [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► don't really unless you're painting [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► really close attention and you're a huge [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► nerd you don't really know which [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► alternate mode if any it needs to work [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► like I have I have this card reader I [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► have some Ethernet adapters and it's [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► like well are any of these Thunderbolt [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► devices or are they all us PC devices I [TS]

00:16:18 ◼   ► don't actually know and as a nerd I can [TS]

00:16:21 ◼   ► figure out well the problem not the [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► normal devices because that would be you [TS]

00:16:24 ◼   ► know overkill but like how are regular [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► people supposed to navigate this weird [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► world like they tried to make this [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► connector this one unified thing and [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► this will solve all of our problems but [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► in reality this is a world of hurt and [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► it's it's complicated by things like you [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► know by these alternate modes well yeah [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► it's nice that you can put displays and [TS]

00:16:43 ◼   ► Thunderbolt over you know over the same [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► connector and stuff but like Casey's [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► MacBook one doesn't have Thunderbolt it [TS]

00:16:51 ◼   ► only thing it's just I was just about to [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► interrupt you and say exactly right [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► because that reminded me one of the [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► things that people were one of the [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► common themes amongst what people [TS]

00:16:59 ◼   ► suggested for alternate dongles for me [TS]

00:17:02 ◼   ► is Oh use this thing that has everything [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► you want and a lot of the times it did [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► but it was Thunderbolt and not USB see [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► and it wasn't until I got the adorable [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► that it was really made clear to me that [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► that just like you said Marco this this [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► machine does have USB see but it does [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► not support Thunderbolt via that [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► connector so so I have a very small [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► subset of things that I can use that are [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► all on the same physical connector but [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► internally are very very different yeah [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► and so this whole that this these [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► connectors are kind of a mess like the [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► whole the whole spec the way the [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► standard works it's kind of like if you [TS]

00:17:37 ◼   ► just look at USB see as USB 3.1 as the [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► protocol and you only connect USB 3.1 or [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► 3 devices to it that's great then it is [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► just a smaller connector for the [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► standard [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► already had before with usb3 and it's [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► great because there's lots of USB [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► devices out there and USB 3 is a great [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► standard relatively speaking and and we [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► can connect everything that's fine the [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► problem comes like that there's all [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► these little asterisks on it and that's [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► going to just end and those asterisks [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► apply to devices computers cables and [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► hubs all four of those things can screw [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► this up in some way and make something [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► that you bought just not work for a [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► reason that to most people would be a [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► mystery and and even though the computer [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► can put up some kind of weird dialogue [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► of it smart that's still not really [TS]

00:18:20 ◼   ► helping the problem so it's it's nice [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► that they unify this all into one [TS]

00:18:23 ◼   ► connector but the implementation details [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► make it kind of a mess so the idea of [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► the Thunderbolt being like you know the [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► catch-all or the Trojan horse like [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► everyone's gonna put these ports in [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► their machines but they'll eventually [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► learn that you know it's neat that you [TS]

00:18:37 ◼   ► can connect display and also USB device [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► to that thing but really the only [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► protocol that can tunnel everything over [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► it and multiply stuff out is Thunderbolt [TS]

00:18:45 ◼   ► so a thunderbolt will take over the [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► world because it's the it's the superset [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► of everything like won't everybody just [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► make everything Thunderbolt because once [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► they learn oh you know if you give you [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► like this email says if you plug in a [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► hub you if the thing has to decide [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► whether it is and you know sending [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► through DisplayPort a USB or Thunderbolt [TS]

00:19:04 ◼   ► and why wouldn't everybody just a [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► thunderbolt and the reason everyone [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► won't do thunderbolt is because it's [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► more expensive it's more expensive [TS]

00:19:08 ◼   ► everywhere it's more expensive in the [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► cables in the in the hardware that's in [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► the hubs and the purpose like at USB is [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► just cheaper to implement so it's going [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► to be very difficult for Thunderbolt to [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► take over everywhere and maybe Intel [TS]

00:19:21 ◼   ► opening up with Thunderbolt spec will [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► help with this because people can make [TS]

00:19:24 ◼   ► like knockoff controllers legally [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► knockoffs but like legally they can [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► implement their own spec router but I [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► think it's just more expensive to [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► implement even if you don't have to do [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► the active cables with the chips in them [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► because you have a low speed device or [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► whatever I'm not entirely sure that you [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► we're gonna get the Thunderbolt everyone [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► I think it will help for the high end [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► devices where people are spending gobs [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► and money on the you know upcoming Mac [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► Pro and there's a bunch of Thunderbolt [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► peripherals that you can attach to it [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► and there's tons of you know PCI Express [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► Lanes inside the box and you know but I [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► think it will probably live on the high [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► end but for the medium to low end like [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► people just using their laptops [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► around it's almost like this is yet [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► another problem the more port solve in [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► theory again I'm not sure how many lanes [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► there are but if you know if you've got [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► this port of like oh this one is [TS]

00:20:08 ◼   ► connected to redisplay so it has to be [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► display and this one is USB so it's [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► connected by USB hub like if if you can [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► have more ports and have each individual [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► port beside what it wants to be [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► independently but you probably can't do [TS]

00:20:19 ◼   ► completely independently once you [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► register a number of ports because [TS]

00:20:21 ◼   ► there's just not enough you know [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► controllers on the inside but surely you [TS]

00:20:26 ◼   ► know in Casey's case if you had one more [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► port that one port could decide well [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► he's gonna burn one in power so one is [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► power and then USB and then one is [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► display so so you had a 3 port computer [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► those three ports and those 3 ports [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► could decide individually what they [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► wanted to be if there was sufficient you [TS]

00:20:43 ◼   ► know controller hardware and [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► independence inside the box maybe maybe [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► forget about KC's thing sorry adorable [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► you're stuck go to Markos computer [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► surely Markos computer you could put 4 [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► ports in that thing one of the D power [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► and three other ones and then those [TS]

00:20:56 ◼   ► three ports can decide what they want to [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► be and then you get the advantage of [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► having a bunch of uniform ports in your [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► computer that are all the same shape and [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► size and you just plug display in this [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► one and put your hub and this one and [TS]

00:21:07 ◼   ► put your power in that one and they all [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► just work but once a daisy chains that [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► it's like well what are you even daisy [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► chaining like you can't you can't sweep [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► that under the carpet because it's not [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► like there's one magic protocol that [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► does everything well there kind of is [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► its Thunderbolt but it's the most [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► expensive one and that isn't a lot of [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► all your peripherals so every time you [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► plug something in you're sort of [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► deciding what this port is going to be [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► and plugging in a box that has a bunch [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► of other ports on it you basically just [TS]

00:21:32 ◼   ► decided that the thing has to be [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► Thunderbolt and now everything is [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► expensive yes okay uh definitely on the [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► Hall of Fame for me for a great feedback [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► emails really what that yeah Marco you [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► have some home pod follow up according [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► to the night news Oh tell me more okay [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► so this is this is probably my second [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► favorite follow up in the history of [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► follow up my favorite follow up in the [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► history of follow up is there is an old [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► episode of it was either connected or [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► the connected predecessor show the [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► prompt one of those shows [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► Mike had misstated his own age he was [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► off by one and a listener wrote in the [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► next episode to correct him on his own [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► age [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► that's my favorite follow-up ever this [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► is my second favorite follow-up ever we [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► spent about a half hour and a couple [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► episodes ago speculating about whether [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► the home pod had a screen or not and one [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► guy even wrote in to say like it was [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► somebody basically like a tipster about [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► it saying here's how it's actually [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► implemented there's this diffuser and [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► there's these LEDs below it and it's not [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► really a screen and but it might be a [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► screen later on and we talked about this [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► for like a half-hour it turns out none [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► of us thought to check Apple's site but [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► Rob buck house did and Rob buck house [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► writes in to say Apple site clears us up [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► pretty well there's a section on the [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► home pod page that says tap the top of [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► home pod to play pause or adjust the [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► volume it also shows you when Siri is [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► listening with an LED waveform that [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► animates with your every word yeah I had [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► read that when we did the show that's [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► why we talked about the idea of it being [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► like okay well maybe this is just a [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► temporary one and they'll put the real [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► screen on it later so who knows I [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► thought we had all read the website at [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► the time we were discussing it yeah but [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► I think if Apple is putting this on [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► their product page saying this is what [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► home pod does and this is the thing it [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► has that's it that's final yeah that's [TS]

00:23:18 ◼   ► what they're doing if you read the text [TS]

00:23:20 ◼   ► there's no screen describe something as [TS]

00:23:22 ◼   ► an LED waveform even if it's a screen [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► because you know they have like LED TV [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► they wouldn't say LED I know LED TVs [TS]

00:23:28 ◼   ► aren't really LED right and if it was [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► old I said it would say it would say [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► OLED like it's not and it's if it was a [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► if it was an LCD screen it would say LCD [TS]

00:23:37 ◼   ► or it would say anything I said it fits [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► within if they wanted to change this to [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► a screen they wouldn't have to change [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► that copy but but either way as I said [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► on the show it this is not the type of [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► thing that you would do as a stopgap [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► right because it's just too complicated [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► it's too complicated and too polished to [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► have in there as a stopgap if they if [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► they were gonna make it a bitmap display [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► they would already have done that they [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► wouldn't have spent all this time on [TS]

00:24:03 ◼   ► this weird thing yeah I fix it well show [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► us exactly how many colored LEDs are [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► inside there but it's probably fewer [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► than her in the Google home because I [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► think Google home like I said Google [TS]

00:24:14 ◼   ► them it's like a ring of them so it's [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► got a lot this probably just has I don't [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► know maybe 20 who knows [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► we are sponsored this week by fracture [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► who prints vivid color photos directly [TS]

00:24:26 ◼   ► on glass visit fracture maqams / podcast [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► for more info fracture is a photo decor [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► company that's out to rescue your [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► favorite photos from the digital either [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► they print photos directly on to glass [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► with a laser-cut rigid backing so it's [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► ready to hang up right out of the box [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► they even include the wall anchor all [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► you have to do is upload a digital photo [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► and pick your size it is that simple and [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► the fracture printing process makes the [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► color and contrast really pop and the [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► sleek edge to edge frameless design of [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► these wonderful pieces of glass lets [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► your photo stand out and it matches [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► pretty much any decorating style and [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► again you don't have to get these frame [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► they are their own thing already so you [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► hang it up it's ready to go and it looks [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► great with fracture you can bring a [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► special memory to life and they also [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► make fantastic gifts if you want to get [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► them for their special people in your [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► life maybe you take a photo of your kid [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► or your dog and give it to you know [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► their grandparents like they really [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► appreciate that these make wonderful [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► gifts we've given lots of them over time [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► we have our our house is filled with [TS]

00:25:27 ◼   ► fractures they're amazing they look [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► great we get compliments on them all the [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► time [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► Tiff's are actually recently ordered a [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► giant one eye it's something like 2 feet [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► wide and it looks fantastic and then it [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► comes in a massive box [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► it's pretty great and they scale up from [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► like the size of a CD cover all the way [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► up to that and it looks great fracture [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► comes with a 60-day happiness guarantee [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► on all prints so you're sure to love [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► your order and each fracture is handmade [TS]

00:25:51 ◼   ► in gainesville florida from us source [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► materials and a carbon-neutral factory [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► for more information and 10% off your [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► first order visit fracture me comm slash [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► podcast and in there give you a [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► one-question survey basically just ask [TS]

00:26:04 ◼   ► you what podcasts did you hear about [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► this from so make sure you put a teepee [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► in there so that they know you came from [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► here it helps support us and it helps [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► tell them where their ads are working so [TS]

00:26:12 ◼   ► it's great for everybody once again to [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► get 10% of your first order go to [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► fracture me.com slash podcast and make [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► sure to tell them that a teepee sent you [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► thank you very much to fracture for [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► sponsoring our show [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► speaking of new family members Marco you [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► have welcomed a new family member to [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► your house can you tell us about this [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► well there's master risks on that [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► did you already return it is that the [TS]

00:26:38 ◼   ► essence today I received my my pre-order [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► of the echo show the new Amazon echo [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► device with the screen and the the [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► reviews had come out yesterday or the [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► day before and their reviews showed it [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► in different angles and in real life [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► before this when we were pre-ordered we [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► were only shown like the product shots [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► which were taken at a very careful angle [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► and even at that very ideal flattering [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► angle this looks like a pretty ugly [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► product but I thought okay but you know [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► the echos I love the echo cylinder it's [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► really useful we use it all the time and [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► there are contexts in which it would be [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► nice to have a screen you know there you [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► know there is you know the timer is [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► especially timers the big one you can [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► watch the timer countdown or like a lot [TS]

00:27:24 ◼   ► of like Tiff's will ask it about the [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► weather in the morning it would be nice [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► to see that so as opposed to you know [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► just having to sit through this like [TS]

00:27:30 ◼   ► four sentence long description of the [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► weather you know so a screen would be [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► helpful we thought and I convinced if [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► despite the way it looked [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► - - let me preorder one and try it so we [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► get it here set it up plug it in and boy [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► the thing is hideous in person I mean it [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► is really ugly in person and and if you [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► look at all the reviews and we got the [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► white one - I figured that would be a [TS]

00:27:55 ◼   ► little bit less hideous no it's just as [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► hideous is it is it uglier than the [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► original Kindle no but it is larger all [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► right like I think it is it can't be [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► uglier but it does it doesn't pose the [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► obvious that it has it doesn't pose that [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► more in your face than the original [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► Kindle that is it right there and so let [TS]

00:28:18 ◼   ► me expand on that so basically so it [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► would plug it and now like because I [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► hadn't opened up the Alexa app in a long [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► time I had not yet connected it to being [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► a try to do it's like FaceTime or [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► calling thing so I open it up in order [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► to set this up I'm required to give the [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► Alexa app [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► real name and confirm it and then it [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► really tries hard to get me to give it a [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► phone number and access to my contact [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► list so we can periodically sync it with [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► us at the gammas on service and i say no [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► no no and there's no that you can skip [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► that part you can skip the contact and [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► phone number part but you can't skip the [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► name part and you I don't see any way to [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► opt out of calling completely I don't [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► want people calling me on my echo [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► I know Amazon just launched the service [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► where they you know they are doing that [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► they had like their own like FaceTime [TS]

00:29:07 ◼   ► network I could not possibly care less [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► or be less interested in using it like [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► we have a million other ways to do that [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► now that are all better and not run by [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► could be companies like Amazon so that [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► the whole idea of being forced to set [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► this up and not having a clear opt-out [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► really put me off so I was already kind [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► of unhappy and maybe that colored my [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► later reaction so we set the thing up [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► the first thing that's to do is the [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► software update okay fine [TS]

00:29:31 ◼   ► software B takes forever no can't walk [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► away you know obviously they couldn't [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► update the software you know before they [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► ship to me two days ago but okay and [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► then the thing finally boots up and the [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► screen is super bright and I know we can [TS]

00:29:48 ◼   ► probably change that but the screen is [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► super bright and it's just blaring news [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► headlines at you that you that lates and [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► it the frit it's like you know some [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► celebrity baby thing I don't care at all [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► like the last thing I want is for this [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► screen to be blaring visually blaring [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► news headlines at me and we tried a [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► couple things okay I guess we'll set [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► this up like we don't have calendars [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► paired yet so the counter screen is not [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► usually yet but I really want to give [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► Amazon access to my calendar well maybe [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► not me okay I won't judge it on that [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► let's try playing some music so the [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► first thing is it completely fails to [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► recognize my Amazon music whatever [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► whatever the subscription is that is on [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► the echo that like the premium thing for [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► the echo there's like four bucks a month [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► we have that and it totally failed to [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► recognize it I don't know why it [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► eventually started working the sound [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► quality on it is really poor it is only [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► a very small improvement over the echo [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► cylinder and I don't care for that like [TS]

00:30:51 ◼   ► they had all this time [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► this device costs two hundred and thirty [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► dollars and granted yes it has a screen [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► and everything so that's that's a pretty [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► good price for order is but they [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► couldn't improve the sound quality like [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► that think that's like the one major [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► problem with the echo cylinders sound [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► quality and they they really I would say [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► they almost didn't improve it at all [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► it's it's very very close to the old one [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► and and it just like it just keeps [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► blaring this this screen at us and I and [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► TIFF was very quickly out of love and I [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► and I very quickly followed because what [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► I realized was regardless of what anyone [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► else thinks of this product I had made a [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► mistake in thinking it was right for us [TS]

00:31:30 ◼   ► because one thing that I now realize in [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► retrospect that we like about the echo [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► cylinder is that it is it does not take [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► visual attention away from anything it [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► is this you know it's not pretty but [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► it's discreet you know it's this black [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► cylinder you put somewhere they had to [TS]

00:31:47 ◼   ► come in white to now so it's the [TS]

00:31:49 ◼   ► cylinder you put somewhere and you don't [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► really ever have to look at it it [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► doesn't draw attention to itself so the [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► the echo cylinder fits into your life in [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► a more discreet way the echo show with [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► the screen draws attention in it draws [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► your eyes and it takes attention out of [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► the room and it does it for something [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► that really doesn't deserve that kind of [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► attention it is it is just this the [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► screen in your kitchen that's telling [TS]

00:32:17 ◼   ► you about Kanye's baby or whatever and I [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► could not possibly like and yeah I'm [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► sure I can figure those things in in [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► some different way but just like this [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► thing draws your eye and it's designed [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► to do that it's Amazon stuff is not good [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► enough to make it worth using they're [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► they're gooeys and I kind of knew that [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► already I don't I don't know why I [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► thought those would be any different [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► but for some reason I thought this would [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► be different and that was a mistake so [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► this thing is not for us at all so I'm [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► returning it well that's disappointing [TS]

00:32:49 ◼   ► but maybe you got the Amazon echo show [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► with special offers paid 50 bucks more [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► without special offers yeah and and and [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► what one of the things that makes me sad [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► about this is I realize like what [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► there is a future where they make their [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► app even worse and they make me and they [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► require my calling information or [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► whatever else or they require more stuff [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► I don't want to give them or if there's [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► a future in which all echos have screens [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► and and there is no more option to get [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► on that or or that the ones without [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► screens start sucking because they [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► because the service assumes you always [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► have one or something like that [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► you know like it made me realize I quite [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► how fragile this ecosystem is because [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► this was depending on Amazon doing this [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► one cool thing just just keep doing it [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► like there's one thing they made it's [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► great this the cylinders like they're [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► great just keep doing that but instead [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► they're broadening outreaches weird [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► creepy things like the look and and the [TS]

00:33:46 ◼   ► show that are going in a direction that [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► I really don't like and again if you you [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► know if you listeners like this stuff [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► that's fine [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► all I'm saying is this was dramatically [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► not for us and not but not the kind of [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► thing we were looking for even though I [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► probably should have no not going in but [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► I didn't oh well sometimes it happens [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► but it made me think for a second like [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► I'm actually gonna be really sad if this [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► ecosystem goes south in a way that ruins [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► the cylinder for us because I really [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► like the cylinder the way it has been [TS]

00:34:19 ◼   ► and if that goes away like I mean I [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► guess we could try the the Google air [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► freshener but I'm not a big fan of that [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► the home pod might be great but we don't [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► really know yet and honestly the more I [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► keep trying Syria I keep giving it the [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► benefit of the doubt and it keeps making [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► me not want to try it anymore [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► I don't have a good luck with Siri so so [TS]

00:34:43 ◼   ► I'm not incredibly optimistic about that [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► and and the home pod is also larger and [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► much more expensive and so it'll be hard [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► to justify buying you know more than one [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► of them or I don't know home pod is a [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► big question mark [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► I hope Amazon does not screw up what [TS]

00:34:59 ◼   ► they have that's really great with the [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► echo cylinders with the new weird creepy [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► stuff they're trying to do now so what [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► did you think you were going to get from [TS]

00:35:06 ◼   ► from the echo show when you bought it [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► like I don't mean that in an in a nasty [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► way I'm genuinely asking like did you [TS]

00:35:14 ◼   ► think oh it'll be really nice to have I [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► don't know a visible view of your [TS]

00:35:19 ◼   ► grocery list [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► you'd made mention of your calendar like [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► what sorts of things did you think this [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► was going to help out with that it seems [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► to either not or do a crummy job of it [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► the only reasons I really wanted the [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► screen were to show me timers and [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► whether that's about it and and I and we [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► don't I didn't need the screen like we [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► get along just fine with a cylinder but [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► it would just be nicer to be able to [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► like just glance at timer statuses and [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► just and just you know see the weather [TS]

00:35:48 ◼   ► presented without having to listen to [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► the full you know three sentence [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► description with all the words in it [TS]

00:35:52 ◼   ► like that would be nice and this is [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► again like everyone out there is yelling [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► at me to just you know we're an Apple [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► watch because then it really does solve [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► many of these problems and Siri even [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► occasionally works on that so that that [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► that could be nice but it but it's just [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► not the way I want to do things so you [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► know this is all really nitpicky stuff [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► and this technology is all really [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► amazing so it feels weird to complain [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► about any of it really because in like [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► absolute terms this is all amazing and [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► we should be thankful we have any of it [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► but in relative terms I never want to [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► use an Amazon GUI if I can help it and I [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► think what I was what I was hoping for [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► is more like what we thought the home [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► pod might be before we read Apple's site [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► which is like just a very small discreet [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► screen output for small amounts of [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► information to be presented subtly that [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► I that I think would be nice [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► it could even still be an echo cylinder [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► just with like a little like like an [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► OLED strip around the top to do like a [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► Time Square kind of like you know [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► scrolling marquee kind of size something [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► like something small and discreet that [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► does not draw your eye that that like if [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► there's no timers and if there's nothing [TS]

00:37:09 ◼   ► that you've asked for recently it would [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► just be blank that would be nice [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► but that doesn't that is terrible by the [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► way nobody I know that actually is that [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► but like okay a small screen like like a [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► watch sized screen right you could have [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► like two timer stack they're counting [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► down and it would be fine you know like [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► something small on the screen is what I [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► wanted and this is not that this is like [TS]

00:37:31 ◼   ► this becomes the center of attention in [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► your kitchen [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► or wherever you put it it's like a tea [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► it's like having a TV on and I'm the [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► kind of person that if I'm in a [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► restaurant that has TVs and there's one [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► in my field of view I'm constantly [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► distracted by it and I don't want to be [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► but my eyes just drawn to it that's how [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► this is even though it's not always like [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► moving and stuff all that sometimes is [TS]

00:37:52 ◼   ► but like it just constantly drew my eye [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► to it and I couldn't ignore it and it [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► really deserves to be ignored most of [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► the time so if if what you want is more [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► TV like screens that are always on in [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► your life this might be for you but [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► that's not what I want it feels like you [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► could have gotten this thing quieted [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► down so to speak get it to the point [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► where I mean I don't even know if it [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► displays the time or in the weather [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► stuff but in theory one of the things [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► that Amazon might have a leg up over [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► Apple on is just saying oh we'll just [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► make everything configurable like you'll [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► just be you know turn things on turn [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► things off whatever and then you can get [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► it to the point where all it ever [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► displays is your three timers in the [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► weather and you start looking at it more [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► like like an old-style clock radio where [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► yeah the light that's constantly on but [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► doesn't change much it just shows the [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► time all you know I mean yeah it's [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► probably wise to wait for a [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► second-generation device instead of this [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► hideous thing but on the other hand look [TS]

00:38:50 ◼   ► at your cylinder they haven't made great [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► strides with that cylinder they did I [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► wouldn't worry too much about the [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► ecosystem going all screened because [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► they still got the the dot and then they [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► got the cylinder and then they got this [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► and now they've got like a three Park [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► family not even counting all the weird [TS]

00:39:05 ◼   ► buttons that you pressed to get paper [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► towels and stuff so I think Amazon will [TS]

00:39:09 ◼   ► keep making one of everything but I also [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► think if they actually iterate on this [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► which remains to be seen it they will [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► but if they do iterate on it I think [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► this this approach is better than the [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► hey just give me cylinder with a tiny [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► screen because so whatever the tiny [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► screen is just has more limited use [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► cases what you really want is instead of [TS]

00:39:28 ◼   ► this this thing looks like like a [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► speaker grille housing apparently some [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► crappy speakers and then a screen on top [TS]

00:39:34 ◼   ► of it what you really want is for it to [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► be and what people are going to suggest [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► so why don't you have an iPad in your [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► kitchen because then you can run [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► whatever app you want you figure out [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► whoever you want use hey Siri to do [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► everything you want and won't that solve [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► your problems and you already hear our [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► discuss no it won't biggest seer [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► doesn't listen to me and does dumb [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► things but having a big giant screen [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► that can do anything is much more [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► flexible than having a small screen that [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► can do the three things that you want to [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► do with it [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► provided you can make the big screen you [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► know quiet down not show you special [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► offers by the way if people don't know [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► what that's a reference to the Kindles [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► for many years perhaps they still do [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► this you get a Kindle cheaper if you're [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► willing to have ads displayed on it when [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► you're not using it and Amazon had a [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► euphemism for this they called it Kindle [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► with special offers that way of saying [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► buy this Kindle for less money and will [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► constantly show you ads and if you want [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► the as they go away give us a little bit [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► of more money and let me tell you that's [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► the best money you'll ever spend in your [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► life their book to show the special [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► offers yeah it was only it was only 25 [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► bucks it wasn't a massive amount of [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► money [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► yeah like get the one by all means get [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► the one with special offers and then [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► just say every quarter that you're fine [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► like in the laundry just keep saving [TS]

00:40:44 ◼   ► that until you get 25 bucks and then [TS]

00:40:46 ◼   ► spend it it's great yeah use your money [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► but anyway I'm still a believer in a big [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► screen thing that is stationary and [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► plugged in and has cameras and [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► microphones and good speakers in it but [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► apparently this is not yet it but I also [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► think that Marco didn't quite give this [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► a long enough chance to know exactly how [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► much he would hate her like because I [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► feel like if you had kept it for a [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► couple weeks you could probably come to [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► some uneasy truce with this super bright [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► screen and get it settled down and then [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► then you really know whether like it's [TS]

00:41:18 ◼   ► untenable and this needs to go or [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► whatever but it's probably easier for [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► all involved if you don't add more of [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► these devices to your house so maybe [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► just start buying cylinders and [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► stockpiling them now yeah it'll be Marco [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► with the cylinders Gruber with his [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► keyboards john steven hackett with [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► everything well see the thing with the [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► keyboards is you can probably keep [TS]

00:41:41 ◼   ► getting this to work but the cylinder is [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► like if Amazon gives up on the cylinders [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► the cylinder is useless without the yak [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► and services that feed it so numbers [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► have a bunch of useless and market you [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► would know to have they ever revised the [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► cylinder no that's that's not a good [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► sign they've already they revised the [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► dot already there's been two dots [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► and there's been the other ones that no [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► one buys that the the tap and oh god [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► what's the other one called [TS]

00:42:07 ◼   ► there's two other ones that nobody buys [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► but the tap and the spud and the da yeah [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► but but yeah like there's been two dots [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► but there's only ever been one [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► full-sized cylinder all right anything [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► else on the echo show hopefully not we [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► are sponsored this week by Harry is [TS]

00:42:23 ◼   ► giving you a great shave at a fair price [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► go to harrys.com slash ATP for more info [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► and to get a free trial set Harry's is [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► all about giving you a high quality [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► great shave and they do this with these [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► wonderful five bladed razor cartridges [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► and if you've ever seen a five blade [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► razor cartridge in a store before you [TS]

00:42:42 ◼   ► know roughly what they cost [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► Harry's blades are half the cost of the [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► leading other razor out there that you [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► probably know of and have probably [TS]

00:42:49 ◼   ► bought if you ever need to shave and I [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► probably regretted how much you paid for [TS]

00:42:51 ◼   ► it Harry's blades are an incredible [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► value because they bought their own [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► factory it's a wonderful German factory [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► with over a hundred years of blade [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► making experience they give you high [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► quality blades backed by a hundred [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► percent quality guarantee they are so [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► confident you're going to love their [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► blades they want to give you a trial set [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► for free here's what you do you sign up [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► at Harry's comm slash ATP you just pay [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► three bucks for shipping and they will [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► give you the trial set which is a 13 [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► dollar value just for free all you gotta [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► do is cover the shipping three bucks for [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► the shipping and you get the trial set [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► that includes a razor handle it includes [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► five blades in the cartridge with the [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► lubricating strip and a trimmer blade [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► rich lathering shave gel a travel blade [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► cover which is also when you travel all [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► that just $3.00 for shipping at Harry's [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► comm slash ATP it's all about a great [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► shave at a fair price and they know [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► you're gonna love it so try out the [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► trial set today harrys.com slash ATP [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► thank you very much to Harry's for [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► sponsoring our show [TS]

00:43:49 ◼   ► once again ok moving on we wanted to [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► talk a little bit about iOS drag and [TS]

00:43:58 ◼   ► drop and I have not really experienced [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► this yet I don't have a new iPad I [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► haven't put the beta on my iPad Mini but [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► there's there was a little bit of [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► discussion that I think all of us had [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► had overheard when we were in San Jose [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► for W [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► DC and it was a really fascinating [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► conversation that I'm gonna try my best [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► to summarize so dr. wave Michael Johnson [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► of Pixar had an interesting use case [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► that he didn't feel like the existing [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► drag-and-drop API would work with and [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► his specific examples slightly different [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► than this but I heard him talk about [TS]

00:44:38 ◼   ► this a couple of times with a couple of [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► people and I'm gonna use his example [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► that is not really for Pixar but just a [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► general example so let's say you had a [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► photograph that you were dragging from [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► say photos into pages vo the Apple word [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► processor app what what dr. wave was [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► saying was in general like say on a Mac [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► you would expect that as you're dragging [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► this photo over the text that's in pages [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► say you're dragging it into the middle [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► of like an essay or something you would [TS]

00:45:11 ◼   ► expect that the text would flow around [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► the image such that it's hugging the [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► borders of the sandwich presumably this [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► image is some sort of rectangle and you [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► know it's it's trying to hug the four [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► edges of that image as best as possible [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► so as you drag it up all the text moves [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► down as you drag it down all the text [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► moves up etc I'm trying my best to paint [TS]

00:45:33 ◼   ► a word picture here so what he was [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► saying was that's not really allowed the [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► way things work today and now I'm [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► talking a little outside my comfort zone [TS]

00:45:44 ◼   ► so feel free to interrupt me but [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► basically you're given a bare minimum of [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► I guess metadata about what's getting [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► dragged if any and it's not until the [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► user releases the drag and thus commits [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► yes this is the app I would like to [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► receive this thing I'm holding on to [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► that's the moment at which the the [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► destination app gets all kinds of [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► information including actual object [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► that's being dragged but the theory from [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► Apple was until you have released your [TS]

00:46:18 ◼   ► finger and you know taking it off the [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► screen and thus dropped what you have [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► quote-unquote in your hand what if you [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► drag across some other app that you [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► don't want to see [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► anything about that informations let's [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► say you have you know one of those [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► situations where you have three apps [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► open you're going from photos and you're [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► going across Twitter and because you're [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► a maniac you don't use Tweetbot you use [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► the official Twitter app don't at me [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► okay so you drag across Twitter app but [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► you don't want Twitter to see that [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► photograph and then you go into pages [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► and that's when we release so that's why [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► they don't want to give a not final [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► destination any sort of real information [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► about what's being dragged but that's a [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► real bummer for cases where you want to [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► do things like reflow text around an [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► image so it was a very very interesting [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► use case and I actually witnessed a [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► couple of conversations between dr. wave [TS]

00:47:10 ◼   ► and a couple of people including some [TS]

00:47:11 ◼   ► Apple employees one of which was [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► extremely fascinating about what are the [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► pros and cons of Apple's approach and [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► you know what what could or should they [TS]

00:47:21 ◼   ► do about it and there's a lot of gray [TS]

00:47:24 ◼   ► area here that I'm kind of fluffing over [TS]

00:47:26 ◼   ► as an example if they're - if the source [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► and destination apps are from the same [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► developer you know say comics are not [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► whatever then there's I believe more [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► information available to you than there [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► would be otherwise but I don't recall if [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► that's enough to get through this [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► particular problem or not but it was [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► just a really really fascinating news [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► case and I don't know if I should go so [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► first to say edge case but it's [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► certainly it's not one of those things [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► where I heard this was like wow this API [TS]

00:47:56 ◼   ► sucks it's actually wow they really [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► really thought about this API they made [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► a decision that may or may not have been [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► the best but I think that makes sense [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► and I understand why they did it so I [TS]

00:48:09 ◼   ► don't I have not experienced this myself [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► I've kind of summarized as best I can [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► mark oh you have a new iPad and you do [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► have the beta on it right so anything to [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► add on this I thought you're wrong but [TS]

00:48:22 ◼   ► now I'm questioning it I thought that [TS]

00:48:24 ◼   ► there was a whole thing in DC sessions [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► which I haven't I haven't finished [TS]

00:48:27 ◼   ► watching the dragon drop ones yet but [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► yeah I've seen them either yeah but I [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► thought that that they actually did [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► provide for photos they provided [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► dimensions and there was even some way [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► to to like to tell the drag agent [TS]

00:48:43 ◼   ► how to render a preview to see like show [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► a thumbnail of the image here like and [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► and didn't figure federighi talk about [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► that on the talk show like I for some [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► reason I think you might be wrong about [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► this entire this entire concept like I [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► think they're like you are right that [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► that they get that the apps don't [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► receive information I don't receive the [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► data that's being right unless it [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► dropped for security concern reasons but [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► I think there's this whole API in place [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► for like previewing that allows the like [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► the Windows Server to the the basically [TS]

00:49:13 ◼   ► the app can tell the server like well if [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► you happen to have an image let me know [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► its dimensions and render it you know at [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► this kind of alpha of level at this [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► scale here you know I think there [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► actually is waiting that you're both [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► right Marco you you ever calling this [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► and actually there's even more than that [TS]

00:49:33 ◼   ► there's other places where you can stash [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► a limited amount of actual data like an [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► 8k buffer or something and a case he's [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► right about the not friend apps but like [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► app groups and stuff they're all those [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► things are true but the specific use [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► case and the case that Apple has [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► specifically protected against is [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► getting it the actual data that is [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► behind that dragged item they have all [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► these things surrounding it to give you [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► some way to let the destination know [TS]

00:49:59 ◼   ► stuff about your thing without getting [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► it the actual data and there's a couple [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► reasons that one is the thing the case [TS]

00:50:05 ◼   ► you talked about which is privacy and it [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► kind of makes sense in in in the in the [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► iOS ecosystem in the modern computing [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► ecosystem the idea of dragging an image [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► across the Facebook app and the Facebook [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► app extracting all the image data and [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► like analyzing it and uploading or [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► whatever like that sounds crazy you're [TS]

00:50:23 ◼   ► just paranoid no we've seen we've seen [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► we've seen worse from other applications [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► on iOS this is you know this is why [TS]

00:50:31 ◼   ► Apple did this if they can't give you [TS]

00:50:33 ◼   ► the data and so if they if they're not [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► gonna give you the data then all these [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► problems you're talking about well what [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► do I do for you know for a preview what [TS]

00:50:41 ◼   ► should it look like what I'm dragging it [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► can I give some metadata can I give some [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► limited amount of other data of my [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► choosing you know a couple kilobytes of [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► information and a lot of times that can [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► be enough for example if the thing that [TS]

00:50:53 ◼   ► you're dragging is representable by URL [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► for example and you [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► jam that URL into that you know 8 [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► kilobyte field then your destination [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► application it's like oh hi you're [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► dragging this thing but I can't get it [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► the real data it's like yeah but I my [TS]

00:51:07 ◼   ► date is just a URL and I'll put in a [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► little area and then you can read the [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► URL and then you can hit the URL and [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► pull down the data and get it but in [TS]

00:51:13 ◼   ► other cases when you're dragging [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► something very large like a large data [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► file or something like that [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► they don't want the application to get [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► at that actual data and all the preview [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► stuff you can do is never going to [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► represent the thing I don't want to get [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► into I know some more specific details [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► about the use cases the Pixar thing but [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► I don't want to talk about them but [TS]

00:51:29 ◼   ► there are situations where a preview is [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► not sufficient a thumbnail preview [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► dimensions all of which are not [TS]

00:51:36 ◼   ► sufficient you can imagine things that [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► Pixar does that may not be adequately [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► represented are nicely representable as [TS]

00:51:43 ◼   ► merely some dimensions in the thumbnail [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► right because picsArt of stuff in 3d so [TS]

00:51:48 ◼   ► just feel free to extrapolate from there [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► and that's that's a user experience [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► thing where you would just expect on the [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► Mac or on a PC type operating system [TS]

00:51:58 ◼   ► that the destination has access to the [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► full set of data and can do whatever it [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► wants with it and not just say give me a [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► little placeholder because sometimes a [TS]

00:52:08 ◼   ► placeholder especially if the [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► placeholder just a thumbnail or [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► something or a kilobits is not adequate [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► and so I think Apple made the right [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► decision for the environment because [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► especially since it's so hard to ensure [TS]

00:52:20 ◼   ► that you don't drag across something you [TS]

00:52:23 ◼   ► know that you like because everything is [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► you know it's a tiling window manager [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► essentially there is no dead zone [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► there's no demilitarized zone between [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► the quote-unquote windows all right so I [TS]

00:52:35 ◼   ► guess if you invoke the multitasking [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► switcher you've got you're sort of out [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► of dragging across things until you pull [TS]

00:52:41 ◼   ► it back but maybe when you pull it to [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► the front to maybe you know you're not [TS]

00:52:43 ◼   ► hovering over the right side of the pane [TS]

00:52:45 ◼   ► as it zooms and like it's it's difficult [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► not to accidentally hover over something [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► and I don't know if it's just iOS or [TS]

00:52:51 ◼   ► just modern computing in general but iOS [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► grew up in an environment where it is [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► not it is not overly paranoid to think [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► that applications will try to extract [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► any piece of information they can [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► because they can do stuff with it they [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► can upload to a server they can analyze [TS]

00:53:06 ◼   ► it they could figure out how to sell ads [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► against your thing they can [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► you know like that that is real stuff [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► that happens so I have to protect [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► against it and but after hearing these [TS]

00:53:17 ◼   ► specific use cases I think there is [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► there is a situation that Apple needs to [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► address and I think the best way to [TS]

00:53:22 ◼   ► address it is probably by you know the [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► same thing with the app group stuff of [TS]

00:53:26 ◼   ► like opening the floodgates between [TS]

00:53:29 ◼   ► applications that that know each other [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► right and I'm sure this use case beyond [TS]

00:53:34 ◼   ► that was like all right well what about [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► you know third-party company that wants [TS]

00:53:38 ◼   ► to sell an application into professional [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► environment and they're not the same [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► company they want to share things so [TS]

00:53:42 ◼   ► there needs to be some sort of secure [TS]

00:53:44 ◼   ► way for applications even across [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► companies to agree that it's okay that [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► we show that we share each other's full [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► data instead of doing a lot of this [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► stuff but I mean this this is what [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► software design is about that you know [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► you make the best decision for everybody [TS]

00:53:59 ◼   ► and then everybody who's who doesn't [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► fall into that you know that 80% the the [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► fat part of the bell curve sends you bug [TS]

00:54:06 ◼   ► reports and you try to find some way to [TS]

00:54:08 ◼   ► accommodate them so I don't know what [TS]

00:54:09 ◼   ► the outcome of this conversation is [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► other than I was fairly convinced that [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► this is a legit use case and I think [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► Apple was as well on it hopefully [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► they'll do stuff to address it but I [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► still think they made they made the [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► right decision for the majority of users [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► you know it's sort of safety first [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► security first privacy first approach [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► with many allowances to let you know [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► your average application do something [TS]

00:54:32 ◼   ► reasonable and then the more demanding [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► applications have to find another [TS]

00:54:35 ◼   ► solution [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► anything else on drag-and-drop so [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► there's a subsection here about dragging [TS]

00:54:41 ◼   ► on a drag and drop on the phone this was [TS]

00:54:43 ◼   ► all this is all older notes but it was [TS]

00:54:45 ◼   ► like right after the key knows like wait [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► does drag-and-drop work on the phone or [TS]

00:54:48 ◼   ► does it work in the bay there's it's [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► supposed to work or no there they're [TS]

00:54:51 ◼   ► gonna intentionally make it not work [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► because they don't want drag and drop [TS]

00:54:54 ◼   ► could be on the phone I don't have iOS [TS]

00:54:56 ◼   ► lovin on a phone so I don't know the [TS]

00:54:58 ◼   ► current status is this mark oh do you [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► have it yeah can you drag between [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► anything on the phone can you drag [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► between apps no you can drag within your [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► own app though I'm not entirely sure why [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► they impose this limitation like I can [TS]

00:55:11 ◼   ► see why somebody might have argued for [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► this but you know on the iPad you can [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► drag and drop within an app and also [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► between apps on the iPhone you can only [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► drag and drop within an app however [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► if you if the argument is the screen is [TS]

00:55:25 ◼   ► too small and so you can expect people [TS]

00:55:27 ◼   ► to like you know cram their fingers on [TS]

00:55:29 ◼   ► or whatever that doesn't work because [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► there's this awesome system that they [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► built where you can you can you know [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► pick up some items in a drag and then [TS]

00:55:38 ◼   ► with another finger from an you know [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► maybe from your other hand with another [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► finger you can navigate the interface to [TS]

00:55:45 ◼   ► a different screen and then drop the [TS]

00:55:48 ◼   ► drag items somewhere else like not just [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► within the same list or within the same [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► screen but you can actually like go to [TS]

00:55:53 ◼   ► like a different level in the navigation [TS]

00:55:55 ◼   ► hierarchy and drop them there or you can [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► drive them through the whole different [TS]

00:55:58 ◼   ► app entirely and that's great that's an [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► incredibly powerful system but if you're [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► gonna allow navigation within an app to [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► happen while you're in mid drag on the [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► phone why not also allow you to kick out [TS]

00:56:12 ◼   ► to a different app and along something [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► else you know so the only thing I can [TS]

00:56:15 ◼   ► think of is on the iPad you have the [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► screen space to have two apps side by [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► side or you know more than one app side [TS]

00:56:21 ◼   ► by side so you have that ability on on [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► the iPad and you don't have that in the [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► iPhone and that's that's fine I think [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► that makes sense given given the screen [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► sizes in the in the app environment but [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► I don't see why there's a limitation [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► that you that you can't do it between [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► apps by like holding down your dragged [TS]

00:56:38 ◼   ► items on the phone and then hitting the [TS]

00:56:39 ◼   ► home button and go into a different app [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► and opening up a different apps like you [TS]

00:56:42 ◼   ► already enabled it within the app so why [TS]

00:56:44 ◼   ► not that yes Steve drone Smith [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► responding some people offering them [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► maybe it's because you know that the [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► phone's not powerful enough where they [TS]

00:56:55 ◼   ► want to save as an upsell feature for [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► the next iPhone or whatever and from [TS]

00:56:59 ◼   ► what he heard WWC is they just wanted to [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► this to be an iPad only feature for now [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► maybe it will come to the phone [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► eventually a lot of by the way related [TS]

00:57:07 ◼   ► to this both on the phone not on the [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► iPad one of the things that kept coming [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► up during the keynote and afterwards is [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► the idea of a shelf which is a concept [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► that pretty sure existed in next step [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► but certainly they were there were like [TS]

00:57:20 ◼   ► copycat products on the Mac they [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► probably still are on the Mac these days [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► it's just I think even Quicksilver has [TS]