13: The Tortoise and the Hare


00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:01   you are listening to hypercritical this [TS]

00:00:05   is a weekly talkshow ruminating on [TS]

00:00:06   exactly what is wrong in the world of [TS]

00:00:08   Apple and related technologies [TS]

00:00:10   businesses nothing you see is so perfect [TS]

00:00:13   that it can't be complained and [TS]

00:00:15   criticized by my co-host John siracusa [TS]

00:00:18   I'm Dan benjamin the show is made [TS]

00:00:19   possible by fresh books calm mailchimp [TS]

00:00:22   calm which will tell you about in a [TS]

00:00:24   little bit but this is episode number 13 [TS]

00:00:27   creepy 13 are you superstitious I am NOT [TS]

00:00:32   in some cultures 13 is considered lucky [TS]

00:00:36   a lot of people would say it's unlike [TS]

00:00:39   them should we skip should we just call [TS]

00:00:40   this episode 14 and my culture 13 is the [TS]

00:00:43   number epic 12 [TS]

00:00:48   good enough good enough for me you sold [TS]

00:00:51   me how are you how's your week been been [TS]

00:00:56   good so far good we have a giant pile of [TS]

00:01:02   follow-up I'm still thinking about what [TS]

00:01:04   parts I'm going to trim don't trim any [TS]

00:01:06   of it I say we do the whole thing all of [TS]

00:01:08   it the whole show would be follow up [TS]

00:01:09   then yeah maybe once and for all clear [TS]

00:01:12   it out start fresh no this wouldn't [TS]

00:01:14   clear it out this was just supposed to [TS]

00:01:15   be one shows worth would it expanded but [TS]

00:01:17   I think I'll stop about halfway through [TS]

00:01:19   I want to start with stuff about Pixar [TS]

00:01:23   believe it or not it was the big shock [TS]

00:01:27   on last week's show yeah well it was a [TS]

00:01:29   shock I was shocked [TS]

00:01:30   yeah not a lot of feedback on that [TS]

00:01:32   surprisingly it brought out a few of the [TS]

00:01:36   people who had previously had bad [TS]

00:01:39   thoughts about Pixar but didn't feel [TS]

00:01:41   safe expressing them so now once they [TS]

00:01:43   hear someone else say anything bad about [TS]

00:01:45   Pixar they will come out of the woodwork [TS]

00:01:46   and tell you what they think is wrong [TS]

00:01:50   with Pixar right some of them agree but [TS]

00:01:51   and some of them I didn't but there was [TS]

00:01:53   one good one that stuck out to me and it [TS]

00:01:56   was someone who brought up a point that [TS]

00:01:59   I thought about before but hadn't tied [TS]

00:02:01   it in to what I said on last week's show [TS]

00:02:03   but he did in a connected all together [TS]

00:02:05   this was Kieran Healy he's usually in [TS]

00:02:06   the chatroom I don't know if he's there [TS]

00:02:07   today he was pointing out that most [TS]

00:02:10   Pixar movies have male lead characters I [TS]

00:02:14   think all of them do at this point and [TS]

00:02:16   there's very few female characters and [TS]

00:02:18   this is something you tend not to notice [TS]

00:02:20   and movies in general you know because [TS]

00:02:23   certain genres always have male [TS]

00:02:24   characters and Pixar does kids movies in [TS]

00:02:26   her adventure movies and they always [TS]

00:02:27   have male leads right and that's not a [TS]

00:02:29   big deal exactly until you know he had [TS]

00:02:32   his daughter say to him while watching [TS]

00:02:35   the Cars movie why don't the girls get [TS]

00:02:37   to go on the racetrack and you don't [TS]

00:02:41   notice it until you hear something like [TS]

00:02:42   that and then you know you have this [TS]

00:02:44   emotional reaction where you're like you [TS]

00:02:45   know what why don't the girls get to go [TS]

00:02:47   on the racetrack what's what exactly and [TS]

00:02:50   then you just look at all the other [TS]

00:02:51   movies that Pixar does and the [TS]

00:02:54   protagonist is always a male and the [TS]

00:02:55   female characters are [TS]

00:02:57   you know important too strong that the [TS]

00:02:59   main exception is Elastigirl from The [TS]

00:03:00   Incredibles I guess well she's still a [TS]

00:03:02   secondary character it's about think [TS]

00:03:04   it's about the dad right but now see I [TS]

00:03:06   don't I don't think that Pixar any movie [TS]

00:03:09   studio needs to have some sort of [TS]

00:03:10   balance like you know that their lead [TS]

00:03:12   characters must exactly match the [TS]

00:03:13   percentages of people on the earth so [TS]

00:03:16   fifty-one percent women and X percent [TS]

00:03:17   this race in it that's that's ridiculous [TS]

00:03:20   the Pixar really does strike me as a [TS]

00:03:21   male oriented or as you would say [TS]

00:03:24   orientated I would company or production [TS]

00:03:28   company if you think about it name name [TS]

00:03:31   that the the movies that they've made [TS]

00:03:34   I'm not saying girls don't love these [TS]

00:03:36   these movies too but to me they feel [TS]

00:03:38   they feel like boy movies yeah so that [TS]

00:03:43   was the tie-in to last week I was [TS]

00:03:45   talking about how they had a sort of a [TS]

00:03:47   culture of engineering creativity yeah [TS]

00:03:50   and engineering cultures and engineers [TS]

00:03:51   in general it tends to be like a [TS]

00:03:54   male-dominated culture so Kiran was [TS]

00:03:57   wondering are these two things connected [TS]

00:03:59   is the sort of engineer lead culture of [TS]

00:04:03   Pixar it is that causing this sort of [TS]

00:04:08   male-dominated storyline phenomenon I [TS]

00:04:11   don't know if the two are connected but [TS]

00:04:12   it's it's an interesting to consider and [TS]

00:04:14   the comparison is with Miyazaki who [TS]

00:04:15   always comparing Pixar too and [TS]

00:04:17   Miyazaki's movies are I don't know if [TS]

00:04:20   it's majority but it seems like the vast [TS]

00:04:22   majority of the protagonists are female [TS]

00:04:24   that's one of the reasons I have my [TS]

00:04:25   daughter watch all those movies because [TS]

00:04:27   they're their movies were the lead [TS]

00:04:29   character it's a female and I don't I [TS]

00:04:31   started her off on these movies and she [TS]

00:04:33   you know only saw movies with female [TS]

00:04:34   lead characters in the beginning of her [TS]

00:04:36   life just to sort of normalize her on [TS]

00:04:38   the idea that yes you can do everything [TS]

00:04:40   that the male characters can do there's [TS]

00:04:43   no limitations based on your gender [TS]

00:04:45   she's never said anything about the [TS]

00:04:46   Pixar movies because she's seen them too [TS]

00:04:48   but it is a stark contrast between [TS]

00:04:51   rescue cultures now I have no idea why [TS]

00:04:52   Miyazaki pick female leads and have no [TS]

00:04:54   idea what pics are mostly picks male [TS]

00:04:56   leads but the correlation is there I [TS]

00:05:00   thought it was interesting because I [TS]

00:05:01   mean it's to balance things out like in [TS]

00:05:03   the universe that could be I mean it [TS]

00:05:06   could just be coincidence it could just [TS]

00:05:08   be you know that's the way [TS]

00:05:10   the cookie crumbled for each of the [TS]

00:05:12   stories and the other Pixar news I got [TS]

00:05:15   and feedback was all the other various [TS]

00:05:17   Pixar projects because I was talking [TS]

00:05:19   about what Pixar should do next and [TS]

00:05:21   their their culture of not letting bad [TS]

00:05:22   things out the door so on that front a [TS]

00:05:26   couple people pointed out and I had [TS]

00:05:27   heard this long ago but it forgotten [TS]

00:05:29   about it but people would remind me that [TS]

00:05:31   Pixar's movie Newt as in like a little [TS]

00:05:34   lizard thing was canceled last year I [TS]

00:05:36   think it's the first time that I recall [TS]

00:05:38   that a sort of high profile pics our [TS]

00:05:40   project that people knew about outside [TS]

00:05:42   the company was cancelled hmm and this [TS]

00:05:44   was supposed to be a movie about a [TS]

00:05:45   blue-footed Newt who was in a lab and he [TS]

00:05:49   was the last one on earth but then they [TS]

00:05:50   found a female in the wild and they [TS]

00:05:51   bring a female from the wild into him to [TS]

00:05:53   help to try to get them to mate the PR [TS]

00:05:57   they showed for it had the male Newt in [TS]

00:05:58   the cage and he could see from his cage [TS]

00:06:00   a poster on the wall detailing the nine [TS]

00:06:02   steps of the mating ritual the [TS]

00:06:03   blue-footed Newt so he had been studying [TS]

00:06:05   that poster you know before when the [TS]

00:06:07   female comes right but there was a [TS]

00:06:08   coffee machine blocking the night step [TS]

00:06:10   so it wasn't sure what it is but that's [TS]

00:06:13   the premise of the movie the two of them [TS]

00:06:14   end up escaping from the cage and going [TS]

00:06:16   out in the wild and fighting with each [TS]

00:06:17   other yeah it's sort of like a romantic [TS]

00:06:19   comedy with newts [TS]

00:06:20   so it sounded interesting to me but that [TS]

00:06:22   was canned and so when you hear that [TS]

00:06:24   that's canned is that you know was it [TS]

00:06:25   cancelled because it was too you know [TS]

00:06:28   ambitious and risque or was a cancel [TS]

00:06:30   just because it wasn't working out you [TS]

00:06:31   know so you don't you don't know based [TS]

00:06:33   on the fact that it was canceled whether [TS]

00:06:34   this is an example Pixar not taking [TS]

00:06:36   enough risks or this is an example fix [TS]

00:06:37   are killing something that was just not [TS]

00:06:39   working out you know but it is [TS]

00:06:41   interesting that those type of things [TS]

00:06:42   are happening publicly now whereas [TS]

00:06:44   before you know the rewrites at Toy [TS]

00:06:46   Story 2 and stuff like that happened [TS]

00:06:48   internally had only heard about them [TS]

00:06:49   after the fact like after the movie was [TS]

00:06:51   already out and successful Pixar's [TS]

00:06:53   actual next movie is called brave it [TS]

00:06:55   used to be called the bear in the bow or [TS]

00:06:57   the bow and the bear or something but [TS]

00:06:59   now it's called brave and this one [TS]

00:07:01   surprise has a female protagonist it's a [TS]

00:07:03   Scottish girl who's the daughter of a [TS]

00:07:06   king and she goes off on some sort of [TS]

00:07:08   adventure so that's going to be their [TS]

00:07:10   actual next movie they'll be interesting [TS]

00:07:12   to see what that ends up like and then a [TS]

00:07:16   couple of people pointing me to the [TS]

00:07:18   live-action projects that I alluded to [TS]

00:07:20   for the X Pixar people one of them was a [TS]

00:07:24   Andrew Stanton who did a wall-e and [TS]

00:07:25   stuff he's going on to do a live-action [TS]

00:07:27   movie not with Pixar called John Carter [TS]

00:07:30   of Mars based on a sci-fi character from [TS]

00:07:34   a long ago right and it's interesting [TS]

00:07:37   that first it's going to be rated pg-13 [TS]

00:07:39   so it's not going to be entirely kids [TS]

00:07:42   filled and second it's live-action it's [TS]

00:07:44   Disney but it's not Pixar so this sort [TS]

00:07:47   of hemming and hawing about well is this [TS]

00:07:48   a is this a Pixar movie this is a spic [TS]

00:07:50   stars first live-action movie well not [TS]

00:07:52   really but it's you know as I understand [TS]

00:07:54   but the Pixar people aren't working on [TS]

00:07:55   it but it's in Disney but not Disney [TS]

00:07:56   owns Pixar so maybe this is a an [TS]

00:08:00   experiment to try to give the Pixar [TS]

00:08:02   treatment to a live-action movie and if [TS]

00:08:03   it works out maybe Pixar could go off in [TS]

00:08:05   that direction but we'll see but I think [TS]

00:08:07   it is interesting is going to be pg-13 I [TS]

00:08:08   think Incredibles with just PG right not [TS]

00:08:10   pg-13 I'm pretty sure was PG out I'll [TS]

00:08:13   look at that but no would you say did [TS]

00:08:16   you mention Ponyo we talked about last [TS]

00:08:19   week yeah I mean would you say that the [TS]

00:08:21   main character was female it seemed like [TS]

00:08:23   that it was as much about her as it was [TS]

00:08:26   about the little boy it it's tough to [TS]

00:08:30   say in some of these movies like [TS]

00:08:31   Princess Mononoke is another example [TS]

00:08:33   where it seems that the protagonist is [TS]

00:08:35   male but the title character and the [TS]

00:08:38   main sort of semi antagonist are both [TS]

00:08:41   females and important females at Ponyo [TS]

00:08:44   saint-like Ponyo as the title character [TS]

00:08:46   but she has very little dialogue and you [TS]

00:08:49   open on and follow what you open up on [TS]

00:08:51   you but you follow the little boys [TS]

00:08:52   adventure so the little boy I feel like [TS]

00:08:54   the protagonist but Ponyo is obviously [TS]

00:08:56   important but she doesn't have much to [TS]

00:08:57   say during the movie and then is that [TS]

00:08:58   the mother and everything a female [TS]

00:09:00   characters in Miyazaki movies have no [TS]

00:09:02   limitations Rana and it just so happens [TS]

00:09:05   to be the clear lead and many of them is [TS]

00:09:07   female um so not only was the [TS]

00:09:10   Incredibles PG but it was the first [TS]

00:09:13   Pixar film to be PG right I remember [TS]

00:09:15   that being a big deal so you know John [TS]

00:09:17   Carter of Mars live-action pg-13 not [TS]

00:09:20   really Pixar but a Pixar guy at the helm [TS]

00:09:23   so it'll be interesting to see how that [TS]

00:09:24   turns out I have one other movie thing [TS]

00:09:28   but it's it's a big rant maybe I'll tack [TS]

00:09:30   it on the end if we finish early but I [TS]

00:09:32   doubt that will happen but the next [TS]

00:09:34   thing I wanted to talk to it which isn't [TS]

00:09:35   actually follow up and I'm just sticking [TS]

00:09:36   stuff in here that aren't part [TS]

00:09:37   the main topic but it's that Open [TS]

00:09:39   Compute thing that happened this week [TS]

00:09:40   did you talk about that with anybody yet [TS]

00:09:41   ah [TS]

00:09:42   Cristina Warren and I talked about it [TS]

00:09:43   yesterday a little bit but the gist of [TS]

00:09:46   it is Open Compute is Facebook's attempt [TS]

00:09:50   I think this is my my gut feeling on [TS]

00:09:53   this is that this is their attempt to [TS]

00:09:55   sort of out Google Google by not only [TS]

00:09:58   saying we have the most awesome data [TS]

00:10:00   center ever but we're going to share all [TS]

00:10:03   of the details about how we did this [TS]

00:10:05   going to give away all the specs all [TS]

00:10:08   every everything you want to know about [TS]

00:10:11   making an awesome data center the way [TS]

00:10:15   that Google has never really revealed [TS]

00:10:16   that we're going at which episode we [TS]

00:10:18   talked about that but which one was when [TS]

00:10:20   I was talking about what Google's [TS]

00:10:21   biggest advantages I think it was maybe [TS]

00:10:23   the one about Apple online stuff but [TS]

00:10:26   anyway I had said that Google's biggest [TS]

00:10:28   competitive advantage was its operations [TS]

00:10:30   was this data center operations and it's [TS]

00:10:31   hardware and software in that regard and [TS]

00:10:33   I said that they had basically like a [TS]

00:10:34   ten-year head start [TS]

00:10:36   yeah what I meant by that was like [TS]

00:10:37   starting from the time that they did [TS]

00:10:38   this not starting from now obviously so [TS]

00:10:40   there's some ways into their 10 year [TS]

00:10:42   head start the question is how far and [TS]

00:10:43   in the past episode I said that there's [TS]

00:10:46   lots of open source stuff in this area [TS]

00:10:50   that's like well Google won't give us [TS]

00:10:52   what we have so we'll make our own so [TS]

00:10:53   there's stuff like Hadoop or the various [TS]

00:10:55   no SQL databases and stuff like that [TS]

00:10:57   where they're they're open source [TS]

00:10:58   initiatives to try to do the stuff that [TS]

00:11:00   Google has but isn't sharing um [TS]

00:11:02   and the lead that they have like when I [TS]

00:11:07   say they have a 10 year lead I'm kind of [TS]

00:11:08   implying that the leads going to go away [TS]

00:11:09   that the open source stuff will [TS]

00:11:10   eventually catch up but mostly the open [TS]

00:11:12   source stuff I mentioned is just on the [TS]

00:11:14   software side and the hardware side is a [TS]

00:11:16   big part of this so I think Facebook [TS]

00:11:19   Facebook makes its intentions clear this [TS]

00:11:20   is a quote right from their Open Compute [TS]

00:11:22   website says by releasing Open Compute [TS]

00:11:24   Project technologies is open hardware [TS]

00:11:26   our goal is developed to develop servers [TS]

00:11:28   and data centers following the model [TS]

00:11:29   traditionally associated with open [TS]

00:11:31   source software projects they're [TS]

00:11:32   basically saying we are doing with [TS]

00:11:33   hardware what people normally do with [TS]

00:11:37   open source software and that's that's a [TS]

00:11:39   clear indication that what Facebook [TS]

00:11:41   feels is that they acknowledge that [TS]

00:11:43   Google has had the lead in this area in [TS]

00:11:45   data center operations and they think [TS]

00:11:48   the only way that they can or maybe the [TS]

00:11:50   way they can catch up [TS]

00:11:51   fastest possibly the only way they can [TS]

00:11:53   ever catch them is to reframe the game [TS]

00:11:55   as everybody versus Google hmm so [TS]

00:11:58   they're going to be the everybody's like [TS]

00:11:59   we could try to do it on our own Google [TS]

00:12:01   doing our own Google has more money than [TS]

00:12:02   us they have a big head start it's gonna [TS]

00:12:03   be really tough to catch them but if we [TS]

00:12:04   just say everybody versus Google then [TS]

00:12:07   suddenly it's more of a fair fight [TS]

00:12:08   so trying to suit you know hasten the [TS]

00:12:10   demise of Google's lead in this area and [TS]

00:12:12   you'll know that the lead is gone like [TS]

00:12:14   if you're watching the space you'll know [TS]

00:12:15   the lead is gone when Google starts [TS]

00:12:17   opening up its data center hardware [TS]

00:12:18   stuff I don't think they would do that [TS]

00:12:20   just just to have a response you don't [TS]

00:12:22   think they would do that just to say [TS]

00:12:23   they need to yet but like because look [TS]

00:12:26   with it in the software world all these [TS]

00:12:27   open-source sort of semi equivalents of [TS]

00:12:29   stuff that Google does based on Google's [TS]

00:12:31   white papers and their vague you know [TS]

00:12:32   notions they're not coming out and say [TS]

00:12:34   okay you can have our whole software [TS]

00:12:36   infrastructure because you guys are [TS]

00:12:37   doing open-source equivalents they're [TS]

00:12:39   happy to let Yahoo and everybody else [TS]

00:12:40   work on their open-source equivalents in [TS]

00:12:42   the various no sequel databases and all [TS]

00:12:44   that stuff and you know that Facebook [TS]

00:12:47   has described blogging logging [TS]

00:12:49   infrastructure all sorts of projects [TS]

00:12:50   like that go on and Google says that's [TS]

00:12:52   fine you guys go with that but we still [TS]

00:12:53   feel like our stuff is better and in [TS]

00:12:55   fact we're revising our stuff we're not [TS]

00:12:56   sitting on our hands we are making the [TS]

00:12:59   version - of all our internal stuff or [TS]

00:13:01   whatever but no one was challenging them [TS]

00:13:03   in the hardware so now facebook is with [TS]

00:13:04   this initiative trying to formalize the [TS]

00:13:06   software effort and then saying we're [TS]

00:13:08   going to try to compete with you on fard [TS]

00:13:10   we're by pulling everybody else into our [TS]

00:13:11   circle say we did a little bit of [TS]

00:13:13   working out everybody join in and see if [TS]

00:13:14   we can't as an entire you know industry [TS]

00:13:16   compete with this one company that won't [TS]

00:13:18   share its goodies and I think as soon as [TS]

00:13:21   you see Google dip its toe and say well [TS]

00:13:24   you know we're releasing X is [TS]

00:13:25   open-source so we're you know here's our [TS]

00:13:27   hardware specs or whatever that's [TS]

00:13:29   basically end of their lead they will be [TS]

00:13:30   acknowledging that it they've at least [TS]

00:13:33   decided that the open-source stuff is [TS]

00:13:34   about to pass them by and they need to [TS]

00:13:36   contribute now I don't know how [TS]

00:13:38   successful this efforts going to be in [TS]

00:13:39   that regard because the software part [TS]

00:13:42   that's kind of happening already but it [TS]

00:13:44   happens slowly and organically and [TS]

00:13:46   hardware is harder because you can't [TS]

00:13:47   just get contributors to hardware like [TS]

00:13:49   you know randomly off the internet right [TS]

00:13:51   this minimum you know level of entry [TS]

00:13:54   that you have to the crosses how are you [TS]

00:13:57   a hardware engineer do you have hardware [TS]

00:13:58   to work with are you a company that does [TS]

00:13:59   this you know did you ever consider [TS]

00:14:01   going into an outside of the [TS]

00:14:03   house doing the hardware engineer so I [TS]

00:14:06   majored in computer engineering which [TS]

00:14:07   doesn't have software any and is really [TS]

00:14:09   electrical engineering major and we do [TS]

00:14:11   go over hardware stuff but I did enough [TS]

00:14:13   hardware stuff to know that I didn't [TS]

00:14:14   like it [TS]

00:14:15   or rather that I like software better [TS]

00:14:16   not that I didn't like it but I [TS]

00:14:17   definitely like software I could see you [TS]

00:14:19   in there with you know a little [TS]

00:14:20   soldering iron kind of you know [TS]

00:14:22   hunkering over one of those little [TS]

00:14:23   RadioShack things or the transistors in [TS]

00:14:26   it yeah you have to do that for class [TS]

00:14:28   but like the people who are building [TS]

00:14:30   these Facebook things are really more [TS]

00:14:32   systems integrators like their specking [TS]

00:14:33   out stuff to hardware manufacturers in [TS]

00:14:35   Taiwan who are you know producing [TS]

00:14:37   prototypes for them and they're getting [TS]

00:14:38   and I think the interesting thing about [TS]

00:14:40   this joan is that there this is mostly [TS]

00:14:42   custom stuff this isn't off the rack so [TS]

00:14:45   yeah that's that's the big deal yes [TS]

00:14:46   Google does all its custom stuff and [TS]

00:14:48   they said we're going to do our custom [TS]

00:14:49   stuff we're going to have a motherboard [TS]

00:14:50   made for us tailored to our exact [TS]

00:14:51   specifications we're going to build our [TS]

00:14:53   own case you know spec out where the [TS]

00:14:55   fans are going to go our own power [TS]

00:14:56   supply the power supply is like half the [TS]

00:14:58   project is they you know design their [TS]

00:14:59   own power supply to be super efficient [TS]

00:15:01   and run off AC and DC Google's power [TS]

00:15:03   supplies I think have built in UBS's so [TS]

00:15:05   they don't to use a big UPS in the data [TS]

00:15:07   center it's all sorts of extremely [TS]

00:15:10   custom stuff here and it would be better [TS]

00:15:12   for Facebook to try to recoup those [TS]

00:15:13   costs by saying everybody let's share [TS]

00:15:14   let's all work on these designs together [TS]

00:15:16   so we don't have to bear the full cost [TS]

00:15:17   of developing this we would like to do [TS]

00:15:18   it as a community google says we'll just [TS]

00:15:20   bear the whole cost and you don't get to [TS]

00:15:22   share with us so I'll definitely be [TS]

00:15:24   watching that space because that will be [TS]

00:15:27   I think it'll be a big indicator of [TS]

00:15:28   where Google sees itself right now I [TS]

00:15:30   haven't heard a thing from Google so I [TS]

00:15:32   think there's a secure and what they [TS]

00:15:34   have and secure and what they're going [TS]

00:15:35   to do next the worst thing I could [TS]

00:15:36   imagine would happen would be that [TS]

00:15:37   Google would say oh yeah here you go you [TS]

00:15:39   want GFS and all this cool stuff we have [TS]

00:15:41   internally here's the version one of all [TS]

00:15:42   those things but internally they using [TS]

00:15:44   version 2 that's like super lame I don't [TS]

00:15:47   think that would be an indication of [TS]

00:15:48   anything except for ill-will on Google's [TS]

00:15:50   part where they're saying we're not [TS]

00:15:51   going to give you the good good stuff [TS]

00:15:52   but if you want to use but we were using [TS]

00:15:54   five years ago go nuts guys it's the [TS]

00:15:57   better than you have now oh where are we [TS]

00:16:02   so I got three more little follow-up [TS]

00:16:06   things but I think I'm going to skip [TS]

00:16:07   them and maybe we'll circle back if we [TS]

00:16:09   have time at the end are you sure ah [TS]

00:16:13   we're about 20 something minutes in well [TS]

00:16:16   so here here are my three things and you [TS]

00:16:18   can pick one of them if you want to do [TS]

00:16:19   it yeah let's let's pick one yeah so one [TS]

00:16:22   is on you're going to plan I'm going to [TS]

00:16:23   complain about George Lucas and Star [TS]

00:16:25   Wars briefly oh that's a whole show I [TS]

00:16:27   know but it's a very it's a very [TS]

00:16:29   specific focus that's number two number [TS]

00:16:32   two is that Quick Pick app that was [TS]

00:16:34   rejected from the Mac App Store this [TS]

00:16:36   week did you see that story I did not [TS]

00:16:38   see that story so maybe that be good was [TS]

00:16:39   another complaining about a projection [TS]

00:16:41   story and number three is Google [TS]

00:16:44   contacts and how they're annoying and [TS]

00:16:46   the options to make them less annoying [TS]

00:16:47   and I want to do that one I would say I [TS]

00:16:50   would say the first one or the second [TS]

00:16:52   one but I uh my gut says go with the [TS]

00:16:54   first one you want to hit okay I'll do [TS]

00:16:56   the Star Wars one this is not your eyes [TS]

00:17:00   I got a whole show about Star Wars I [TS]

00:17:02   don't know how tech related this is but [TS]

00:17:04   I doubt any of our listeners have ever [TS]

00:17:05   seen Star Wars so this keeps coming up [TS]

00:17:08   in my trial I think the thing that [TS]

00:17:09   triggered this same anger and me [TS]

00:17:12   recently was seeing the the blu-ray [TS]

00:17:13   release of Star Wars and stuff that's [TS]

00:17:16   being advertised now and it's just [TS]

00:17:17   making me angry about the stuff again so [TS]

00:17:20   everyone knows what the problem is with [TS]

00:17:22   Star Wars a certain set of fans want the [TS]

00:17:25   original versions without the special [TS]

00:17:27   effects added you know they want the [TS]

00:17:28   cleaned up you know removing the mat [TS]

00:17:30   lines from the optical effects on the [TS]

00:17:33   original fly fighter doesn't look like [TS]

00:17:35   it's on a piece of black cardboard as it [TS]

00:17:37   flies across that's that's deemed [TS]

00:17:38   acceptable because it didn't really [TS]

00:17:40   change the content of the movie but [TS]

00:17:41   anything where you start changing the [TS]

00:17:42   content of the MODY adding scenes adding [TS]

00:17:44   new elements that weren't there people [TS]

00:17:45   don't like that and Lucas as we know it [TS]

00:17:46   doesn't want to release those movies now [TS]

00:17:49   there was this URL that went around [TS]

00:17:50   sometime last year called the secret [TS]

00:17:51   history of Star Wars and it was a [TS]

00:17:53   section it's actually a book now I'll [TS]

00:17:55   link to the site in the show notes but [TS]

00:17:56   but the section of that book was [TS]

00:17:57   specifically about the original print [TS]

00:18:00   itself and one of the excuses that Lucas [TS]

00:18:03   and company have used at various times [TS]

00:18:05   is that even if you wanted the original [TS]

00:18:06   trilogy thing oh that that film doesn't [TS]

00:18:08   exist anymore so all that exists is a [TS]

00:18:11   special edition so tough luck and I will [TS]

00:18:14   link to this thing about the film stock [TS]

00:18:16   of the you know saving the Star Wars [TS]

00:18:18   film and how they cut pieces out of the [TS]

00:18:20   original negatives to make the special [TS]

00:18:21   editions and what you would what would [TS]

00:18:22   be involved in having to try to piece [TS]

00:18:25   together a digital copy of the original [TS]

00:18:27   Algie without the special edition [TS]

00:18:28   effects in it and this thing goes [TS]

00:18:29   through you know it's another excuse [TS]

00:18:31   Lucas's use first he said like the [TS]

00:18:32   footage doesn't exist and secondly said [TS]

00:18:34   well it to make it exist we would have [TS]

00:18:36   to read Italy scan and restore all these [TS]

00:18:38   little bits and pieces of various film [TS]

00:18:40   it would cost like 20 million dollars or [TS]

00:18:42   something like that now it's obvious the [TS]

00:18:45   real reason why he doesn't want these [TS]

00:18:47   things he just doesn't want it he says [TS]

00:18:48   this is my version of the movie I it's [TS]

00:18:50   my movie I get to decide what it is [TS]

00:18:51   that's it but every time he gives a [TS]

00:18:53   financial excuse or an excuse about the [TS]

00:18:56   non-existence of the negatives which is [TS]

00:18:58   basically disproved by this this saving [TS]

00:19:00   Star Wars thing from the secret history [TS]

00:19:02   of Star Wars I think about the unique [TS]

00:19:05   situation that Star Wars is in where a [TS]

00:19:08   lot of times there's something a bunch [TS]

00:19:10   of fans want like some hardcore fan base [TS]

00:19:12   says I want to really want the X version [TS]

00:19:14   of Y and I just want to have this thing [TS]

00:19:16   or whatever and then there's the reality [TS]

00:19:18   what it would take to do that well you [TS]

00:19:19   know it cost 10 million dollars and if [TS]

00:19:21   there's only 100 people or 100,000 or [TS]

00:19:23   whatever you know you won't recoup your [TS]

00:19:24   cost because it costs a lot of money to [TS]

00:19:26   do this work and we simply can't afford [TS]

00:19:27   to do this work for such a small subset [TS]

00:19:28   of fans and this is very true about [TS]

00:19:30   really small narrow interest stuff like [TS]

00:19:33   maybe some particular anime thing that [TS]

00:19:34   you could never justify the cost of [TS]

00:19:35   doing it now Star Wars you can debate [TS]

00:19:37   how many people would buy in a real [TS]

00:19:39   original trilogy you know blu-ray for [TS]

00:19:41   example and maybe it's like it seems [TS]

00:19:44   like a lot in our circles because all of [TS]

00:19:45   our friends want that but in the grand [TS]

00:19:47   scheme of things it's not enough to [TS]

00:19:48   recoup the cost but Star Wars is in a [TS]

00:19:49   unique position because the people who [TS]

00:19:52   want that original trilogy cut of the [TS]

00:19:55   film have a humongous and I'm just [TS]

00:19:58   supposing here but I think you'll [TS]

00:20:00   probably agree with me have a humongous [TS]

00:20:01   overlap with the people who have the [TS]

00:20:04   expertise and access to the equipment to [TS]

00:20:07   do the work for free right probably [TS]

00:20:09   right of all the people in the world [TS]

00:20:11   who'd want the original Star Wars [TS]

00:20:13   trilogy how many of them do you think [TS]

00:20:14   work in the in the film scanning special [TS]

00:20:17   effects industry right who have access [TS]

00:20:20   to the film scanners who are experts in [TS]

00:20:22   this area who would do the work for free [TS]

00:20:24   in a heartbeat [TS]

00:20:25   like if Lucas went out I said of course [TS]

00:20:26   if we want to restore the original [TS]

00:20:28   version of Star Wars and put out a [TS]

00:20:29   blu-ray but we don't want to pay a cent [TS]

00:20:31   for labor to do the work right it would [TS]

00:20:32   get not only would they get volunteers [TS]

00:20:34   at the bhasu they will get volunteers [TS]

00:20:35   who are the very best in their field at [TS]

00:20:38   what they do right willing to volunteer [TS]

00:20:39   their time to do this [TS]

00:20:41   and I just can't even think about you [TS]

00:20:44   know because people are clamoring to do [TS]

00:20:46   this I bet it you know if you put out [TS]

00:20:48   that call in the first day you would [TS]

00:20:50   have the best possible team you could [TS]

00:20:53   assemble and it's willing to work for [TS]

00:20:55   free and so any money that you made off [TS]

00:20:58   this at all like the whole thing for [TS]

00:21:00   free Luke's wouldn't have to be involved [TS]

00:21:01   at all any money you made at us at all [TS]

00:21:03   all you'd have to recoup is the cost of [TS]

00:21:04   the ten cents that would never happen I [TS]

00:21:06   never do that but like it is it's the [TS]

00:21:10   most unique situation where what else [TS]

00:21:12   you gonna get this for free what else [TS]

00:21:13   you gonna say it's a zero risk [TS]

00:21:15   proposition George we will do all the [TS]

00:21:17   work for free or we will do a better job [TS]

00:21:18   on this than you the people who made the [TS]

00:21:20   you know the actual Brewers because the [TS]

00:21:22   people working on this will be working [TS]

00:21:23   at it out of the goodness of their heart [TS]

00:21:25   and they will use like all their skills [TS]

00:21:27   and all their powers to quote from The [TS]

00:21:28   Godfather which we should talk about it [TS]

00:21:30   we'll talk we'll talk about that yeah to [TS]

00:21:33   make this the best blu-ray release ever [TS]

00:21:35   in the history of the universe and if [TS]

00:21:38   they happen to leak a bunch of digital [TS]

00:21:41   scans onto the internet during the [TS]

00:21:42   process then you know oh well but I just [TS]

00:21:46   get angry when I think about that I [TS]

00:21:48   guess maybe someday Lucas will be gone [TS]

00:21:50   and someone else will think about that [TS]

00:21:52   but it just bothers me that all this is [TS]

00:21:55   tied up in economics when we're in a [TS]

00:21:57   situation you're weakened Alex doesn't [TS]

00:21:58   have to matter at all so that was my [TS]

00:22:01   Star Wars thing I don't know how it got [TS]

00:22:02   triggered and how I think I was just [TS]

00:22:03   thinking about movies and seeing the [TS]

00:22:04   Star Wars blu-ray go by on the internet [TS]

00:22:07   and people talking about it and I just [TS]

00:22:08   got angry all over again about that [TS]

00:22:12   that's not even today's topic and before [TS]

00:22:14   we say what today's topic is John this [TS]

00:22:17   is your cue to unplug your microphone [TS]

00:22:19   because they're doing are like our first [TS]

00:22:20   aww answer and and this is a great [TS]

00:22:23   sponsor this is a I love it when I get [TS]

00:22:25   to talk a lot about my personal [TS]

00:22:27   experience with the sponsor and this is [TS]

00:22:28   this is one of them FreshBooks comm [TS]

00:22:30   we've had them on the show before and I [TS]

00:22:33   was using them a little bit but I hadn't [TS]

00:22:36   really made the switch from QuickBooks [TS]

00:22:38   because my accountant was getting say no [TS]

00:22:40   no you know QuickBooks is just easier [TS]

00:22:42   it's easier for us I finally just [TS]

00:22:44   I got to say I said no I'm done with I'm [TS]

00:22:47   done with QuickBooks I can't hit it's [TS]

00:22:49   horrible I need a way I need something [TS]

00:22:51   that's more modern I need something that [TS]

00:22:53   takes the headache out of invoicing be [TS]

00:22:55   I hate it I hate the whole invoicing [TS]

00:22:57   process item night it's not fun trying [TS]

00:22:59   to keep track of have they seen the [TS]

00:23:02   invoice even have they paid it where [TS]

00:23:04   where is it in the process well this is [TS]

00:23:06   the this is the beautiful thing about [TS]

00:23:07   fresh books is that when you send an [TS]

00:23:10   invoice to a customer to a client you [TS]

00:23:14   know instantly if they've seen it forget [TS]

00:23:16   if they've paid it yet it shows you that [TS]

00:23:18   of course well I mean it's it it shows [TS]

00:23:21   you they've seen they have seen the [TS]

00:23:23   invoice it's great [TS]

00:23:24   tons of integration you can set up [TS]

00:23:25   recurring payments and and all kinds of [TS]

00:23:27   stuff and it just takes the headache out [TS]

00:23:29   of this custom logos everything you name [TS]

00:23:31   it and so here's what they're doing for [TS]

00:23:33   hypercritical listeners every week they [TS]

00:23:37   are going to give away a birthday cake [TS]

00:23:40   even if it's not your birthday you can [TS]

00:23:42   still get this they're going to give [TS]

00:23:44   away a cake to a hypercritical listener [TS]

00:23:47   every week so you go to fresh books calm [TS]

00:23:49   you sign up and when you sign up by the [TS]

00:23:52   way that's free it doesn't cost anything [TS]

00:23:53   to sign up you can even send invoices [TS]

00:23:55   and stuff for free you don't you don't [TS]

00:23:58   have to pay anything to trip but please [TS]

00:24:00   do try it out once you get in there [TS]

00:24:01   don't just sign up to get the cake trust [TS]

00:24:02   me you're going to love this once you [TS]

00:24:04   get in there you put in as you're [TS]

00:24:06   filling up hypercritical that's where [TS]

00:24:07   you heard about the show and you will be [TS]

00:24:10   eligible to get one of these free K [TS]

00:24:12   every week they're sending out a cake so [TS]

00:24:15   go check them out fresh books calm [TS]

00:24:17   you're gonna love it [TS]

00:24:18   did you plug back in John are you back [TS]

00:24:20   I'm back you know you mentioned you had [TS]

00:24:22   ditched QuickBooks ya know every word [TS]

00:24:25   reminded me of another legacy financial [TS]

00:24:27   program that a lot of people are stuck [TS]

00:24:28   on each tree so I've got a I use quicken [TS]

00:24:32   here and I use whatever the last version [TS]

00:24:34   of quicken was for Mac OS 10 before they [TS]

00:24:37   went off on this weird quicken life [TS]

00:24:39   financial whatever stuff but it's [TS]

00:24:42   PowerPC only I think it's like quicken [TS]

00:24:44   2007 or something it's an ancient [TS]

00:24:45   program it's PowerPC only and I'm [TS]

00:24:48   realizing as I'm playing with lion and [TS]

00:24:50   everything that it's going to be a [TS]

00:24:53   problem because lion doesn't seem to run [TS]

00:24:54   Mac OS R PowerPC apps and I thought I [TS]

00:24:59   have no PowerPC apps left but once you [TS]

00:25:01   can't run them at all you realize how [TS]

00:25:03   many you rely on so what the heck am I [TS]

00:25:04   going to do want to upgrade the Lion am [TS]

00:25:06   I just gonna keep one machine back and [TS]

00:25:08   run [TS]

00:25:09   working on it like there's no good [TS]

00:25:11   alternative to it I wish there was I [TS]

00:25:13   know there are a lot of alternatives to [TS]

00:25:15   quicken but like if you're all your data [TS]

00:25:16   is in quicken and you know and you want [TS]

00:25:18   to keep I'd rather just keep using [TS]

00:25:20   quicken because it's what we know how to [TS]

00:25:21   use it works fine [TS]

00:25:23   the fact that it's PowerPC doesn't [TS]

00:25:24   bother me I don't want to go through the [TS]

00:25:26   whole hassle of having to upgrade to [TS]

00:25:27   some other program even if some program [TS]

00:25:30   says that it imports quicken files and [TS]

00:25:32   everything is just a hassle you know oh [TS]

00:25:34   that that's that's gotta meet the press' [TS]

00:25:37   that is QuickBooks for the Mac PowerPC [TS]

00:25:39   or is it Intel I don't quick-quick books [TS]

00:25:42   is Intel well at least the people in a [TS]

00:25:46   better situation with that but yeah hero [TS]

00:25:47   financial program seems like one of [TS]

00:25:49   those I don't want I don't want to do it [TS]

00:25:51   I don't want to do it anymore I don't [TS]

00:25:53   want to have to have this this ancient [TS]

00:25:54   apt of the terrible yet face that's [TS]

00:25:56   what's been happening is the web [TS]

00:25:57   services are taking over a lot of these [TS]

00:25:59   apps that were financial although the [TS]

00:26:02   wigs a lot of people out like putting [TS]

00:26:03   financial information in the web but [TS]

00:26:05   it's clearly the way all these type of [TS]

00:26:08   apps are going you know so maybe that's [TS]

00:26:10   the solution maybe I'm not they just [TS]

00:26:12   they already bought mint so I can't [TS]

00:26:15   really get a way to Roy from Intuit for [TS]

00:26:17   my fan it says I don't know I'm [TS]

00:26:18   depressed about that all right all right [TS]

00:26:20   what's the topic you don't even know but [TS]

00:26:23   we didn't talk about it all I added the [TS]

00:26:25   30 minutes into the show let's hear the [TS]

00:26:27   topic yeah so this is one you kept [TS]

00:26:29   picking yes weeks and we never did this [TS]

00:26:32   is this is Apple's philosophy and [TS]

00:26:33   practice of UI consistency across the [TS]

00:26:35   years I've been wanting this one I [TS]

00:26:37   didn't think I had much to say on this [TS]

00:26:39   but when I was doing notes for it I [TS]

00:26:40   guess I do I don't know there's so much [TS]

00:26:43   to talk about I mean how far back do you [TS]

00:26:45   want to go that's the real that's how I [TS]

00:26:46   always start that's why I'm not having a [TS]

00:26:48   lot to say that I gotta go back there go [TS]

00:26:49   back then beginning to talk about [TS]

00:26:50   anything you know cuz it keep in mind [TS]

00:26:52   that even though probably I'm guessing a [TS]

00:26:54   lot of our listeners or Mac users they [TS]

00:26:56   may not have been Mac users three years [TS]

00:27:00   ago or five years ago or ten years ago [TS]

00:27:01   or in 1984 like we were not have been [TS]

00:27:05   alive in 1984 very true it's all feel [TS]

00:27:07   old together that's all let's all join [TS]

00:27:08   hands and you know sing songs about our [TS]

00:27:13   misspent youth but anyway the point is [TS]

00:27:15   there are a lot of people who never even [TS]

00:27:18   used OS 9 let alone [TS]

00:27:20   yeah you know then and they don't know [TS]

00:27:22   about the hague and they don't know [TS]

00:27:24   about all of this this extra stuff and [TS]

00:27:26   geeks like us we obsess about this so I [TS]

00:27:29   think there's some stuff that will be [TS]

00:27:30   surprising even for old-timers I'm going [TS]

00:27:32   to try to put a lot of these things in [TS]

00:27:33   the show notes a lot of them are just [TS]

00:27:35   screenshots like disembodied images that [TS]

00:27:37   I googled around for because it's hard [TS]

00:27:38   to find good comprehensive pictures of [TS]

00:27:41   old UIs [TS]

00:27:42   but I would suggest that people actually [TS]

00:27:43   look at them after the show and so they [TS]

00:27:48   can see what I'm talking about here so [TS]

00:27:49   I'm going to go back to the beginning [TS]

00:27:51   with the Mac um now the people who don't [TS]

00:27:54   know the youngins the Mac really was the [TS]

00:27:56   first major GUI platform that had [TS]

00:27:59   widespread success there were gooeys [TS]

00:28:00   before it but they weren't as successful [TS]

00:28:02   as the Mac the neck sort of defined that [TS]

00:28:03   the graphical user interface ah and [TS]

00:28:06   along with that was this big push from [TS]

00:28:09   Apple to get developers to make Mac apps [TS]

00:28:12   that sounds kind of silly it's like well [TS]

00:28:14   obviously you know if you make a new [TS]

00:28:15   platform you want people to make apps [TS]

00:28:17   what would the memo that was they wanted [TS]

00:28:18   you to make an application it looked [TS]

00:28:20   like it belong in the Mac they didn't [TS]

00:28:22   want you to take like a das or Apple to [TS]

00:28:23   program and put it in a window and say [TS]

00:28:25   look I brought my program to the Mac you [TS]

00:28:27   know you double-click this icon the [TS]

00:28:28   program launches and inside the window [TS]

00:28:30   is what you would see previously on on [TS]

00:28:31   the da screen or what you would see [TS]

00:28:32   previously on an Apple 2 screen that is [TS]

00:28:34   the last thing Apple want they wanted [TS]

00:28:35   you to make Mac applications and the [TS]

00:28:38   famous example of them sort of enforcing [TS]

00:28:40   this with hardware they didn't put arrow [TS]

00:28:41   keys on the original Mac's keyboard [TS]

00:28:43   which sounds crazy you know how can you [TS]

00:28:45   have a keep over that arrow keys but [TS]

00:28:46   that was their clear signal to people [TS]

00:28:48   writing applications do not make no [TS]

00:28:51   function keys either by the way do not [TS]

00:28:52   make the dots application in a window do [TS]

00:28:54   not make an Apple 2 application in a [TS]

00:28:55   window there are no arrow keys you have [TS]

00:28:57   to use the mouse make a Mac application [TS]

00:28:59   and this was part of their push to sort [TS]

00:29:02   of establish the GUI is a viable [TS]

00:29:03   paradigm for computing which also sounds [TS]

00:29:05   ridiculous like you know people or [TS]

00:29:08   younger don't even realize that there [TS]

00:29:10   was a long time before the GUI was [TS]

00:29:11   anything and there was it you know you [TS]

00:29:13   had to computer with a mouse attached it [TS]

00:29:15   was like there must be some toy computer [TS]

00:29:16   is it a fisher-price you know real men [TS]

00:29:18   use the command-line interface this is [TS]

00:29:20   not a real computer there's good decade [TS]

00:29:23   of that after the Mac was introduced of [TS]

00:29:25   dismissing it as a toy so Apple was you [TS]

00:29:28   know Apple's challenge was make this [TS]

00:29:31   acceptable maple people to understand [TS]

00:29:32   that it's OK for a computer to [TS]

00:29:34   like this and that you should make your [TS]

00:29:35   applications look like this and that [TS]

00:29:37   that old stuff with the command line [TS]

00:29:38   that's going away and that was an [TS]

00:29:41   incredibly tough sell and if you didn't [TS]

00:29:43   live through it it's hard to even [TS]

00:29:44   imagine that this would be an issue of [TS]

00:29:45   debate because nowadays you could not [TS]

00:29:47   get a regular person to sit in front of [TS]

00:29:48   a command line and do anything but back [TS]

00:29:50   then that was the dominant metaphor for [TS]

00:29:53   interfacing with a computer you know [TS]

00:29:55   that was considered and I'll just [TS]

00:29:57   mention this there was a notion for many [TS]

00:30:00   years that even even the youngest in our [TS]

00:30:03   audience should remember that it was [TS]

00:30:06   considered that that Mac's were for [TS]

00:30:09   artists and designers and maybe [TS]

00:30:11   musicians and pcs were like if you [TS]

00:30:13   wanted to do real work you know you're [TS]

00:30:15   in business you get a PC even that was a [TS]

00:30:18   triumph even that was a triumph to say [TS]

00:30:20   yes there was a class of people for whom [TS]

00:30:23   the Mac is actually useful tool like [TS]

00:30:24   just getting the artist to because [TS]

00:30:26   previously was just like oh come on [TS]

00:30:27   you're not gonna buy this thing it's [TS]

00:30:28   like a fisher-price I mean you can't do [TS]

00:30:30   a thing with it it's got these pictures [TS]

00:30:31   on the screen is it for kids or [TS]

00:30:32   something you know it's useless for [TS]

00:30:34   every button and finally you know [TS]

00:30:35   desktop publishing and stuff like that [TS]

00:30:37   came in all right so fine I guess it's [TS]

00:30:38   okay for those hippies yeah we had we [TS]

00:30:40   had a medical study at our school that [TS]

00:30:42   that was the one of the the only ones [TS]

00:30:45   and it was the Makah see that we did the [TS]

00:30:47   school newspaper and like the yearbook [TS]

00:30:50   on and people would line up waiting to [TS]

00:30:52   use this thing but but people need to [TS]

00:30:55   remember that John I think that that the [TS]

00:30:57   Mac was off in this own like there was a [TS]

00:30:59   you needed to have a mouse because there [TS]

00:31:01   were a lot of people that didn't have a [TS]

00:31:02   mouse that was not weird oh yeah again [TS]

00:31:06   for years and years and years pcs did [TS]

00:31:08   not come with the mouse or any kind of [TS]

00:31:09   pointing device they just ignored what [TS]

00:31:11   the Mac was doing and then you know the [TS]

00:31:12   fact that Mac started going desktop [TS]

00:31:14   publishing and I still find there's some [TS]

00:31:15   class of users they need to use this [TS]

00:31:17   type of computer but seriously if you're [TS]

00:31:18   going to liam Peter for your house [TS]

00:31:19   obviously you get a PC and don't worry [TS]

00:31:21   about that Mouse and gooey stuff it's [TS]

00:31:22   silly and we have Windows anyway and [TS]

00:31:24   it's almost the same thing right so the [TS]

00:31:26   advent of Windows you know and the [TS]

00:31:28   popularization of Windows was an [TS]

00:31:29   admission that maybe there is something [TS]

00:31:32   the scoobies thing but Windows ran from [TS]

00:31:33   das and it was a whole other you know [TS]

00:31:36   thing there I might a quick aside on [TS]

00:31:39   Windows and das my favorite thing about [TS]

00:31:42   Windows the windows and das battle this [TS]

00:31:44   is this is a slight tangent here but you [TS]

00:31:46   know when I was [TS]

00:31:47   of all windows versus the Mac and as we [TS]

00:31:49   all know Windows came to dominate but in [TS]

00:31:51   the beginning it was a bunch of DOS [TS]

00:31:52   people installing Windows 3.1 which was [TS]

00:31:54   like the first decent version that [TS]

00:31:56   operated anything like a real GUI had [TS]

00:31:59   overlapping windows and mouse support [TS]

00:32:00   and stuff like that and the way you [TS]

00:32:02   would do it is you install Windows but [TS]

00:32:04   then when you booted your computer you'd [TS]

00:32:05   be at a DOS prompt and what you would do [TS]

00:32:07   at the DOS prompt is type win which is [TS]

00:32:09   short for Windows that was a shorter [TS]

00:32:11   version they launched windows Mary and [TS]

00:32:13   the sheer psychological weight of [TS]

00:32:16   millions of PC users typing the word win [TS]

00:32:19   there Wow has always just sat on my [TS]

00:32:23   shoulders think how much did this have [TS]

00:32:25   to do with Windows winning the the [TS]

00:32:27   desktop battle because at that point was [TS]

00:32:28   only geeks who are using any kind of [TS]

00:32:30   computer and we all knew there was this [TS]

00:32:32   battle hood desktop and here these users [TS]

00:32:33   typing win win win win millions of every [TS]

00:32:37   day win win and just the repetition had [TS]

00:32:41   to hammer into their head you know a [TS]

00:32:42   psychological predisposition to think [TS]

00:32:44   that Windows was going to win the Mac PC [TS]

00:32:45   wars that is that perhaps the [TS]

00:32:47   touchy-feely 'us hippie dippie ASEC [TS]

00:32:49   splen asian for why the Mac lost the war [TS]

00:32:51   for the desktop that you could possibly [TS]

00:32:53   imagine but it is always not sat right [TS]

00:32:54   with me and I just wonder if there's [TS]

00:32:56   someone inside Microsoft who decided to [TS]

00:32:58   put in that little shortcut who was [TS]

00:33:00   smiling as people were typing it all [TS]

00:33:03   right go back back to the GUI time so [TS]

00:33:05   the Mac with the first major GUI [TS]

00:33:07   something that gooeys came with the [TS]

00:33:10   command line things didn't really was [TS]

00:33:11   that it came with like parts out of the [TS]

00:33:13   box you know if you're writing a GUI app [TS]

00:33:15   you don't have to draw every pixel [TS]

00:33:17   yourself it came with a bunch of parts [TS]

00:33:18   you want to draw a button the operating [TS]

00:33:20   system had a way to draw a button for [TS]

00:33:21   you if you wanted to our window the [TS]

00:33:23   operating system had a way to draw a [TS]

00:33:24   window for you it had scroll bars [TS]

00:33:25   cursors menus little pieces from which [TS]

00:33:27   you can assemble your application right [TS]

00:33:30   but on top of that Apple had their [TS]

00:33:32   written guidelines like here's how you [TS]

00:33:34   assemble these parts to make something [TS]

00:33:36   that is an appropriate Mac application [TS]

00:33:38   so first of all definitely use these [TS]

00:33:39   parts don't you know do a command line [TS]

00:33:41   thing inside a window but second well [TS]

00:33:42   when you use the parts here's how you do [TS]

00:33:44   it when you have a dialog box put these [TS]

00:33:45   two buttons on them the okay button goes [TS]

00:33:47   over here the cancel button goes over [TS]

00:33:48   there the default button you know should [TS]

00:33:50   look like this make sure there always is [TS]

00:33:51   a default button all these sorts of [TS]

00:33:53   guidelines and they call it The Hague [TS]

00:33:55   the human interface guidelines now human [TS]

00:33:58   interface guidelines existed before the [TS]

00:33:59   Mac but [TS]

00:34:00   they were more important for the Mac [TS]

00:34:01   because here were these parts that you [TS]

00:34:03   were going to assemble to make an [TS]

00:34:04   application you can assemble these parts [TS]

00:34:06   and also it's a different way so there [TS]

00:34:07   was much more stricter guys much [TS]

00:34:09   stricter guidelines than you had for [TS]

00:34:10   example for the Apple to wear they had [TS]

00:34:12   some guidelines about you know keyboard [TS]

00:34:13   commands and how input should look and [TS]

00:34:15   stuff like that but it wasn't like when [TS]

00:34:17   you draw this in the screen this should [TS]

00:34:18   be this many pixels away from that this [TS]

00:34:19   should be over here this should be [TS]

00:34:20   aligned with that it was just you know [TS]

00:34:21   much stricter and the guidelines that [TS]

00:34:25   were there were an attempt to not only [TS]

00:34:29   make Mac applications like Mac [TS]

00:34:30   application so make them all look like [TS]

00:34:32   each other because they were trying to [TS]

00:34:33   push the benefits of the GUI which is [TS]

00:34:36   not only that it's easier to use but [TS]

00:34:37   that once you learn how to use one Mac [TS]

00:34:39   application you can use any of them you [TS]

00:34:41   know so this may be foreign and crazy [TS]

00:34:42   for you moving around this little thing [TS]

00:34:44   with the cord hanging from a ball in the [TS]

00:34:45   bottom but once you figure out how to do [TS]

00:34:46   it once the next application you use you [TS]

00:34:48   won't have that learning curve again [TS]

00:34:50   provided that we can get all developers [TS]

00:34:52   to make their applications look the same [TS]

00:34:53   way to behave the same way to have [TS]

00:34:55   similar you know menu structures similar [TS]

00:34:57   dialog boxes so that you would see the [TS]

00:35:00   benefit of the GUI and then applicants I [TS]

00:35:01   see huh GUI pretty good right now during [TS]

00:35:06   this time you had people who saw the Mac [TS]

00:35:08   and said wow this is awesome like it's [TS]

00:35:09   clearly the way all computers are going [TS]

00:35:11   to be the Mac is awesome I love the Mac [TS]

00:35:12   that would have been me as a kid and [TS]

00:35:14   lots of other people alright and they're [TS]

00:35:16   there Apple itself had sort of a similar [TS]

00:35:19   fervor to say we want the maxes to seed [TS]

00:35:21   we want to establish the GUI as a [TS]

00:35:23   dominant paradigm because we have the [TS]

00:35:25   best GUI and therefore we will win now [TS]

00:35:27   what happened during that time I think [TS]

00:35:28   is sort of the the fervor to establish [TS]

00:35:31   the GUI got tangled up with religious [TS]

00:35:35   adherence to the hIgG because the Mac [TS]

00:35:37   fans would be like we love the GUI and [TS]

00:35:39   if you're writing GUI map you got you [TS]

00:35:41   got to follow these guidelines and since [TS]

00:35:43   we're you know geeks and otaku would be [TS]

00:35:46   a better term we're just obsessive about [TS]

00:35:47   this stuff you have to follow the hague [TS]

00:35:49   because here's the hague the Higa's are [TS]

00:35:50   you know the held it like the bible the [TS]

00:35:52   hague is our bible if you want to join [TS]

00:35:54   us this is what you have to do and if [TS]

00:35:55   you don't follow the hague you're not [TS]

00:35:56   helping the platform succeed right and [TS]

00:36:00   and that that you know i think it's just [TS]

00:36:02   for the people way back then who are in [TS]

00:36:04   in the midst of that revolution there [TS]

00:36:06   that the strongest adherence to the hIgG [TS]

00:36:08   is the bible you have to do what it says [TS]

00:36:10   and if you don't you are you're making a [TS]

00:36:13   lesser application [TS]

00:36:14   but in reality even Apple itself was [TS]

00:36:18   never as rigid as these as these people [TS]

00:36:20   who were the the rabid Apple fans were [TS]

00:36:23   Apple did want its platform succeed and [TS]

00:36:24   it did say you should use the hIgG but [TS]

00:36:26   they were the G is for guideline not [TS]

00:36:27   gospel all right if you look at like the [TS]

00:36:31   original Mac that came out of the box in [TS]

00:36:32   1984 one of which I had from day one [TS]

00:36:36   Apple was not did not feel constrained [TS]

00:36:39   by the human interface guidelines it did [TS]

00:36:40   itself had written for the Mac because [TS]

00:36:42   if you if you look the best example I [TS]

00:36:44   was trying to think of an example from [TS]

00:36:45   the original Mac that you look at and [TS]

00:36:46   say this does not follow The Hague this [TS]

00:36:48   is completely wrong not only is it wrong [TS]

00:36:50   but it's a giant mess so if I had to [TS]

00:36:53   think one thing I would pick the control [TS]

00:36:54   panel do you remember with the original [TS]

00:36:55   Macintosh control panel look like yeah I [TS]

00:36:58   think I do it was it was you know a one [TS]

00:37:00   screen thing and it had all the little [TS]

00:37:01   icons inside of it and you'd pick the [TS]

00:37:04   one that you want to double click it and [TS]

00:37:05   it would it would sort of launch them as [TS]

00:37:07   individual apps right no you gotta go [TS]

00:37:09   way farther back right open I will put [TS]

00:37:11   it in the show notes the original [TS]

00:37:12   control panel that's right it was just [TS]

00:37:13   one it was one winning with and you [TS]

00:37:16   could pick the background with a little [TS]

00:37:17   background widget and you could pick the [TS]

00:37:19   the fight yeah that was good I missed [TS]

00:37:21   that that was so simple it was one [TS]

00:37:23   window and there is pretty much not a [TS]

00:37:26   standard control anywhere and I gotta [TS]

00:37:28   find a screenshot of this for the show [TS]

00:37:30   no it will be in the shop I found he's [TS]

00:37:32   already oh you already got it excellent [TS]

00:37:33   so actually I'll send it to you now send [TS]

00:37:36   it to me now I go look at it right now I [TS]

00:37:37   remember that how those little [TS]

00:37:38   backgrounds were so cool and it had did [TS]

00:37:41   but there was a different you had to how [TS]

00:37:43   did you change the sounds you have to [TS]

00:37:44   get that separate what was the name of [TS]

00:37:46   the app that let you put the house [TS]

00:37:47   sounds on there for the ejecting the [TS]

00:37:48   track that was much later but yeah there [TS]

00:37:50   was kaboom and so masters of my sound [TS]

00:37:53   master this is this is the original max [TS]

00:37:54   at it out of the box no no contamination [TS]

00:37:57   from third-party applications is what [TS]

00:37:59   they're shipping with on day one and the [TS]

00:38:01   control panel which is a pretty darn [TS]

00:38:02   important piece of functionality because [TS]

00:38:03   it's the only place you can change the [TS]

00:38:04   volume of the computer change the mouse [TS]

00:38:06   track and stuff like that you know it [TS]

00:38:10   has no standard controls on it it's got [TS]

00:38:11   this crazy little thing with a mouse [TS]

00:38:13   with lines come in front it lets you [TS]

00:38:15   change the mouse speed and has a zero [TS]

00:38:16   and a one button what the heck to those [TS]

00:38:18   mean I guess one is faster than zero for [TS]

00:38:20   the keyboard key press speed it has a [TS]

00:38:22   little bit I con of a turtle and then [TS]

00:38:24   the number zero through four and the [TS]

00:38:25   little icon of a rabbit [TS]

00:38:27   slow the rabbit is fast and then it has [TS]

00:38:29   like a thing you're pressing a button [TS]

00:38:30   and another series of numbers these none [TS]

00:38:32   of these are standard controls and [TS]

00:38:33   they're nonsensical like this is the [TS]

00:38:35   original you know this is the brush [TS]

00:38:37   metal of its day this out of the gate [TS]

00:38:39   Apple is saying we have these guidelines [TS]

00:38:41   but we are going to make an important [TS]

00:38:42   part of the system totally disregard [TS]

00:38:44   every single one the only thing this [TS]

00:38:45   thing has on it's a standard control is [TS]

00:38:46   the title bar the title bar has a closed [TS]

00:38:48   box on it it's a standard title bar and [TS]

00:38:50   maybe you could say the volume slider is [TS]

00:38:52   a standard slider control I don't think [TS]

00:38:53   is so cool like that is insane and if [TS]

00:38:57   Apple today came out and like Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:38:59   line and I had some app UI like that [TS]

00:39:01   people would flip out right so this this [TS]

00:39:05   is my first example of how the adherence [TS]

00:39:08   to the hague is really sort of an [TS]

00:39:11   illusion of the the faithful and that [TS]

00:39:13   Apple never felt constrained fine never [TS]

00:39:16   never never felt constrained by now if [TS]

00:39:18   we go forward through time you know to [TS]

00:39:20   say did they get this out of the system [TS]

00:39:22   that was there ever a golden era where [TS]

00:39:23   they said okay now you know forget about [TS]

00:39:25   that crazy stuff forget about the custom [TS]

00:39:26   controls forget about these windows that [TS]

00:39:27   make no sense but the funny icons that [TS]

00:39:29   you can't figure out we're gonna [TS]

00:39:30   everything's gonna be standard right [TS]

00:39:31   that's that's the one yeah but I don't [TS]

00:39:33   think they ever got there because in [TS]

00:39:35   like I'm gonna I'm gonna fast-forward to [TS]

00:39:37   system 7 system 6 was didn't change too [TS]

00:39:41   much from the other ones it introduced [TS]

00:39:42   color banana mineral matter but system 7 [TS]

00:39:44   was the first OS with real color in it [TS]

00:39:46   all right um now I'm always a fan of [TS]

00:39:49   system 7 because they could have gone [TS]

00:39:50   much crazier with the color in system 7 [TS]

00:39:52   so some 7 was the first one written [TS]

00:39:53   written from day one to support color [TS]

00:39:55   and they could have made everything like [TS]

00:39:56   purple and blue or like you know like [TS]

00:39:59   windows basically they could have used [TS]

00:40:00   garish color everywhere instead what [TS]

00:40:02   they did was they took the original look [TS]

00:40:03   and I just highlighted it with just a [TS]

00:40:05   little bit of color around the edges [TS]

00:40:06   like very subtle light color [TS]

00:40:08   highlighting the edges of the existing [TS]

00:40:10   black and white art do you have any [TS]

00:40:11   screenshots yeah oh I'll have I need to [TS]

00:40:14   see these so we can talk about you don't [TS]

00:40:16   remember what system 6 looks like no I [TS]

00:40:17   remember a member system 7 so I don't [TS]

00:40:20   have any good system stuff in [TS]

00:40:21   screenshots and notes but I will get one [TS]

00:40:23   for you at the end of the show but you [TS]

00:40:24   know a system 7 look like Rio I loved [TS]

00:40:26   system 7 that was my that was my [TS]

00:40:28   favorite Mac OS since up to now up to [TS]

00:40:30   present [TS]

00:40:31   not including present rather yeah I [TS]

00:40:34   think I think for me leopard is on par [TS]

00:40:37   with system 7 so some well Snow Leopard [TS]

00:40:39   is better for me system 7 is [TS]

00:40:41   tied up in the age that I was at the [TS]

00:40:42   time so the original system seven is [TS]

00:40:44   these operating system release I was [TS]

00:40:46   most excited about on the one that I was [TS]

00:40:47   most satisfied with which really has no [TS]

00:40:50   foundation in the facts because system [TS]

00:40:53   seven itself was a little bit buggy and [TS]

00:40:55   you know there wasn't even a fonts [TS]

00:40:56   folder until 7.1 and it was clearly [TS]

00:40:58   shipped out early and a lot of a lot of [TS]

00:41:00   things not to recommend system seven but [TS]

00:41:01   because of where I was in my life at a [TS]

00:41:03   time and how excited I was about it that [TS]

00:41:04   that was the best the ID that our [TS]

00:41:07   friends the Nerds in the chat room have [TS]

00:41:09   submitted it's a very nice screen system [TS]

00:41:13   yes isn't that a guidebook GUI site now [TS]

00:41:16   I don't need I don't need to look at it [TS]

00:41:18   cuz I assist them something has burned [TS]

00:41:19   in my brain and it feels good to look at [TS]

00:41:21   it alright but even in system seven [TS]

00:41:23   Apple still you know they made new [TS]

00:41:26   guidelines for color and everything and [TS]

00:41:27   how things should look in a bunch of new [TS]

00:41:28   controls but they still said yeah this [TS]

00:41:31   doesn't apply to us I mean do you [TS]

00:41:32   remember the CD player application [TS]

00:41:34   mm-hmm right that was like the iTunes of [TS]

00:41:38   its day but even worse all right so [TS]

00:41:40   first of all the CD application again [TS]

00:41:42   had no standard controls that are [TS]

00:41:43   discerned anywhere on it every control [TS]

00:41:45   was custom and only were they custom [TS]

00:41:47   didn't even look like standard control [TS]

00:41:48   so the buttons look like physical [TS]

00:41:49   buttons right on an actual CD player and [TS]

00:41:52   it looked like there was a little deck [TS]

00:41:53   for stuff to go in there was lots of [TS]

00:41:55   recesses and highlights and stuff like [TS]

00:41:57   that I mean it's play space us in the [TS]

00:42:00   chat room because people I want to take [TS]

00:42:02   a look at it too but not only was it [TS]

00:42:04   crazy-looking even the title bar by the [TS]

00:42:06   way even the title bars notice the end [TS]

00:42:07   of the clothes which it was not a [TS]

00:42:08   complete custom you are but on top of [TS]

00:42:11   that you could change the color of the [TS]

00:42:12   thing you could pick black or like a [TS]

00:42:14   hundred percent separate saturated red [TS]

00:42:16   or I think other colors were yellow or [TS]

00:42:18   blue or green you could change the [TS]

00:42:19   entire GUI to some incredibly garish [TS]

00:42:22   color and again if they came out with a [TS]

00:42:24   version of iTunes and said now it comes [TS]

00:42:26   in colors and you can pick from this [TS]

00:42:27   popup menu and change the color of the [TS]

00:42:29   whole app and by the way there's not a [TS]

00:42:30   standard control anywhere to be found in [TS]

00:42:32   the app people will go nuts yeah and [TS]

00:42:33   this is basically the equivalent of [TS]

00:42:34   iTunes it was the audio player of its [TS]

00:42:36   day there was no mp3 is just playing [TS]

00:42:37   audio CDs from your CD Drive which is a [TS]

00:42:40   you know advanced technology and the [TS]

00:42:44   rest of the OS was you know fairly [TS]

00:42:46   standard but they never felt any [TS]

00:42:48   compunction from just completely going [TS]

00:42:50   off the map to do whatever the heck they [TS]

00:42:51   wanted but no reason like why did the CD [TS]

00:42:53   player look like that leaves it a better [TS]

00:42:55   application [TS]

00:42:55   because of that you know was there some [TS]

00:42:57   reason that it had to be non-standard [TS]

00:43:00   hey it's the apple of today has always [TS]

00:43:04   been the end apples always been like [TS]

00:43:06   that it's not a new phenomenon that you [TS]

00:43:08   make a great point and I'd forgotten [TS]

00:43:10   about some of these these things they [TS]

00:43:12   didn't and that's true they always have [TS]

00:43:14   been kind of weird here's the height of [TS]

00:43:17   apples and sanity I think if you could [TS]

00:43:19   say it today that they're not as bad as [TS]

00:43:20   they had once been this would be the [TS]

00:43:21   peak the peak was when they were comment [TS]

00:43:22   doing the the Copeland project which was [TS]

00:43:24   going to be the next generation Mac OS [TS]

00:43:26   but it was modern and everything this [TS]

00:43:28   was the original Mac OS 8 Apple [TS]

00:43:30   eventually released something called Mac [TS]

00:43:31   OS 8 but is not this this was their [TS]

00:43:33   original project of this and they had a [TS]

00:43:35   technology in there called the [TS]

00:43:36   appearance manager which would let you [TS]

00:43:38   change the appearance of all the [TS]

00:43:40   standard controls to whatever the heck [TS]

00:43:41   you want and Apple itself made a bunch [TS]

00:43:44   of themes for the appearance manager and [TS]

00:43:46   their themes the appearance manager were [TS]

00:43:49   crazy like they were clearly just trying [TS]

00:43:51   to show off what it was that they could [TS]

00:43:53   do with the appearance manager I pasted [TS]

00:43:55   some more URLs into the chat here so I [TS]

00:43:58   don't know if people remember these but [TS]

00:43:59   one of them was called gizmo and gizmo [TS]

00:44:02   gizmo had made the window border into [TS]

00:44:06   squiggly lines and is I don't know how [TS]

00:44:12   to describe it it's obvious it's obvious [TS]

00:44:13   ly something you would not want to use [TS]

00:44:15   like it's just you know this is clearly [TS]

00:44:16   for kids or something like that right [TS]

00:44:18   that's what people would say about the [TS]

00:44:20   top widgets look like you know a spike [TS]

00:44:23   with a bunch of colored blocks stuck [TS]

00:44:25   onto it and the borders were striped and [TS]

00:44:27   the scroll bars were red right and then [TS]

00:44:29   they have made one called high tech [TS]

00:44:30   which was all black and dark and Blade [TS]

00:44:32   Runner in all the world there are black [TS]

00:44:33   that actually looks looks like what they [TS]

00:44:36   had in Linux on the Enlightenment window [TS]

00:44:39   yes years the high tech one does look [TS]

00:44:41   like a Linux scheme slot but the key [TS]

00:44:44   feature that the technology in question [TS]

00:44:46   here was that they were saying we're [TS]

00:44:47   going to build into the operating system [TS]

00:44:48   a way for you to change what every [TS]

00:44:50   single thing looks and look how far they [TS]

00:44:51   had come from saying every Mac [TS]

00:44:53   application has to look and behave the [TS]

00:44:54   same just saying okay I think people get [TS]

00:44:56   the GUI now but you know let's let you [TS]

00:44:58   change anything you want right now Mac [TS]

00:45:01   OS 8 Copeland did not ship instead they [TS]

00:45:04   shipped a evolution of Mac OS 7 system 7 [TS]

00:45:08   that they eventually renamed [TS]

00:45:09   Mac OS 7.6 that they eventually renamed [TS]

00:45:11   Mac OS 8 and they add a lot of these [TS]

00:45:13   technologies to it so the appearance [TS]

00:45:14   manager actually shipped in the real Mac [TS]

00:45:16   OS 8 which was just an evolution of [TS]

00:45:18   system 7 and so you could do you know [TS]

00:45:21   themes and stuff for an in fact if you [TS]

00:45:23   if you manage to get your hands on the [TS]

00:45:25   Apple themes they would work in the [TS]

00:45:27   shipping actual Mac OS 8 and you could [TS]

00:45:29   run them and change your things to look [TS]

00:45:30   like that there's another one they did [TS]

00:45:31   called drawing board actually which [TS]

00:45:33   looks classier but again crazy look like [TS]

00:45:35   a drafting a drafting board type of look [TS]

00:45:38   work a lot it's like someone had drawn [TS]

00:45:40   your Windows on a graphing board and [TS]

00:45:41   done that thing where you make the lines [TS]

00:45:42   go filter that yeah farther yeah I'll [TS]

00:45:45   paste that one in the chat room too now [TS]

00:45:48   you miss out if you're not in the [TS]

00:45:49   chatroom people keep asking how do you [TS]

00:45:51   do this you get a five by five TV slash [TS]

00:45:53   live or slash audio if you just just [TS]

00:45:56   want audio in an html5 player without [TS]

00:45:58   flash and you click the little chat [TS]

00:46:02   button or if if you're a geek then you [TS]

00:46:05   can launch your favorite IRC client go [TS]

00:46:08   to freenode net and join room 5x5 and [TS]

00:46:13   apple's efforts in these areas were not [TS]

00:46:14   in a vacuum like there was a thriving [TS]

00:46:16   community of third party theming things [TS]

00:46:18   and that you used the appearance manager [TS]

00:46:20   that Apple had built or did their own [TS]

00:46:22   sort of thing with you know memory [TS]

00:46:23   patching and all the great things that [TS]

00:46:25   we did back in the days of classic Mac [TS]

00:46:26   OS 10 [TS]

00:46:27   the big one was called kaleidoscope [TS]

00:46:28   where people make kaleidoscope games and [TS]

00:46:30   kaleidoscope could change any part of [TS]

00:46:31   the GUI so there's a huge culture [TS]

00:46:34   surrounding changing the GUI to look [TS]

00:46:36   like all sorts of crazy things and it's [TS]

00:46:38   not just from but like I said it's not [TS]

00:46:40   just some third party Apple built the [TS]

00:46:41   the plumbing for this into the operating [TS]

00:46:43   system and planned to build into the [TS]

00:46:45   next generation operating system when [TS]

00:46:46   they couldn't they just poured it to [TS]

00:46:47   their regular operating system which [TS]

00:46:48   continued to limp on for many years [TS]

00:46:50   after that now the message about this I [TS]

00:46:56   think was made clear in this book that I [TS]

00:46:58   have that I think very few people have [TS]

00:46:59   it was published back in 1991 called [TS]

00:47:02   Todd on interface you know Todd is I [TS]

00:47:04   really remember talk I don't have this [TS]

00:47:06   book so this is Bruce [TS]

00:47:07   Todd Mazzini I hope I'm pronouncing his [TS]

00:47:09   name right he was a I don't know if he [TS]

00:47:13   was head of the human interface group [TS]

00:47:14   but he was influential in human [TS]

00:47:15   interface in Apple he'd been an apple [TS]

00:47:16   for years since the Apple 2 and he's the [TS]

00:47:19   one to put together the hIgG and did all [TS]

00:47:22   the user interface tests [TS]

00:47:23   stuff like that so he wrote a book sort [TS]

00:47:24   of outside the auspices of Apple saying [TS]

00:47:27   here's what I have to say about [TS]

00:47:28   interface design but he used examples [TS]

00:47:29   from his Apple work all the time of the [TS]

00:47:31   book so I guess it had to have some sort [TS]

00:47:32   of Apple blessing or cooperation um it [TS]

00:47:36   was published by addison-wesley I'll put [TS]

00:47:38   try to put a link to that in the show [TS]

00:47:39   notes but I think it's out of print so [TS]

00:47:42   on page 157 of this book he's got a [TS]

00:47:45   little diagram and a paragraph or two [TS]

00:47:48   about what he calls multiplex meanings [TS]

00:47:50   and he shows first he shows a bunch of [TS]

00:47:53   little house icons for Hyper card and [TS]

00:47:55   only gonna remember HyperCard but there [TS]

00:47:56   was a concept of going home in a hyper [TS]

00:47:58   card stack and he showed these seventeen [TS]

00:48:01   different icons the hyper card came with [TS]

00:48:03   four going home all sorts of different [TS]

00:48:05   sizes of houses houses chimneys [TS]

00:48:06   two-story house one-story house house [TS]

00:48:08   from the side you know house from a [TS]

00:48:10   different angle and he said that it's [TS]

00:48:14   not too much to ask the user to [TS]

00:48:16   recognize all these as being houses like [TS]

00:48:19   once you figure out that house means [TS]

00:48:21   home which may or may not be a hurdle to [TS]

00:48:22   get over when you see the little house [TS]

00:48:24   icon anywhere in a hypercard stack you [TS]

00:48:26   click it and you go home and it doesn't [TS]

00:48:28   matter oh well this house has its [TS]

00:48:29   chimney but the last one didn't I have [TS]

00:48:30   no idea what this house is going to do [TS]

00:48:31   when I click it now you recognize it as [TS]

00:48:32   a house and the other example he gave [TS]

00:48:35   was from system 7 [TS]

00:48:36   he showed six or seven different puzzle [TS]

00:48:39   piece icons which in system 7 were for [TS]

00:48:41   system extensions things that change the [TS]

00:48:44   way the system worked most of them are [TS]

00:48:46   kind of hacky but for example at a [TS]

00:48:47   system extension for changing the [TS]

00:48:50   appearance like kaleidoscope would be a [TS]

00:48:51   partially system extension or drivers [TS]

00:48:53   and stuff like that and they were puzzle [TS]

00:48:54   piece icons because they were you know [TS]

00:48:56   fitting together to change the way the [TS]

00:48:58   system works whatever whatever metaphor [TS]

00:48:59   they was using they were they were [TS]

00:49:00   puzzle pieces but there are many of them [TS]

00:49:02   there was just puzzle piece facing this [TS]

00:49:04   way puzzle piece with a hole in the [TS]

00:49:05   bottom and a tab on the top puzzle piece [TS]

00:49:07   facing sideways it all sorts of [TS]

00:49:08   different directions but all them [TS]

00:49:09   clearly recognizable as puzzle pieces [TS]

00:49:11   right and the message was that things [TS]

00:49:13   don't have to look identical they just [TS]

00:49:15   have to be identifiable as the things [TS]

00:49:17   they're supposed to be so once you [TS]

00:49:18   figure out the puzzle piece icon means [TS]

00:49:20   extension you don't have to be a slave [TS]

00:49:22   to only use the standard puzzle piece [TS]

00:49:24   icon because if you don't people have no [TS]

00:49:26   idea what it what it means and it will [TS]

00:49:27   make the system worse right and he had a [TS]

00:49:30   little quote at the end of this remember [TS]

00:49:31   this is 1991 so this is ages ago on [TS]

00:49:33   technology wise but what he said was as [TS]

00:49:34   bandwidth of you as the bandwidth of use [TS]

00:49:37   interfaces increases he put bandwidth in [TS]

00:49:38   quotes because he's kind of just talking [TS]

00:49:40   as technology increases he's kind of [TS]

00:49:42   these kinds of multiplexing will become [TS]

00:49:44   more and more practical so what he's [TS]

00:49:45   saying is that as we can make nicer [TS]

00:49:47   icons as the fidelity of on-screen [TS]

00:49:49   images and the fidelity interface [TS]

00:49:50   increases there'll be even more things [TS]

00:49:54   that we can do that make the appearance [TS]

00:49:56   different but are still leaves the items [TS]

00:49:59   identifiable as what they're supposed to [TS]

00:50:00   be all right so now here we are today [TS]

00:50:04   with you know the Retina displays on [TS]

00:50:07   iPads and millions of colors on [TS]

00:50:09   everything and you know huge huge [TS]

00:50:11   bandwidth in his parlance of the [TS]

00:50:12   interface so we can make the appearance [TS]

00:50:14   very to crazy degree but the same [TS]

00:50:17   question applies now is it applied then [TS]

00:50:19   what's the point why are you burying the [TS]

00:50:22   appearance so what why have seven [TS]

00:50:24   different puzzle pieces why have twelve [TS]

00:50:26   different kinds of houses why I have 50 [TS]

00:50:28   different things that do the same thing [TS]

00:50:31   but look slightly different and there's [TS]

00:50:33   a couple of reasons for this first [TS]

00:50:34   obviously is fashion and I don't think [TS]

00:50:36   you can dismiss that fashion is a valid [TS]

00:50:38   reason to change the appearance of [TS]

00:50:40   something fashion has changed you know [TS]

00:50:42   who's to say what's the purpose of [TS]

00:50:43   fashions and people's clothes you know [TS]

00:50:45   long hair short hair long skirts short [TS]

00:50:48   skirts tight pants loose-fitting pants [TS]

00:50:50   you know stripes plaid plain things [TS]

00:50:53   fashion changes and the function of [TS]

00:50:56   fashion is not it doesn't do anything [TS]

00:50:59   for you it's just it's as part of the [TS]

00:51:00   human experience and too so why [TS]

00:51:02   shouldn't fashion be part of the [TS]

00:51:04   computing experience as well so if [TS]

00:51:05   someone decides something year that the [TS]

00:51:07   fashion of Mac OS 10 is going to be [TS]

00:51:08   different than it was last year and we [TS]

00:51:10   think we're moving from the 60s into the [TS]

00:51:11   70s or the 80s or you know using the [TS]

00:51:14   equivalent fashion errors why not right [TS]

00:51:16   I think that's that is reason alone to [TS]

00:51:19   say yes you can change the appearance of [TS]

00:51:22   the user interface purely on the basis [TS]

00:51:25   of fashion a correlator this is kind of [TS]

00:51:27   mood mood gets more into objective [TS]

00:51:31   measures where you can have a look of an [TS]

00:51:35   interface that's frantic or sort of you [TS]

00:51:39   know exciting like an example I would [TS]

00:51:40   give is the Windows XP blue themed let [TS]

00:51:42   me remember what that was in the chat [TS]

00:51:44   room like when XP first came out you [TS]

00:51:46   could put it in classic Windows 95 look [TS]

00:51:48   but the sort of native [TS]

00:51:50   Windows XP look it was in all the [TS]

00:51:51   screenshots was really saturated blue [TS]

00:51:54   yeah with a green background and it [TS]

00:51:56   looked very different from the old one [TS]

00:51:58   this little chunkier and dissing I'm [TS]

00:52:01   wrong and that was a very different mood [TS]

00:52:03   than Windows 95 which was mostly grey [TS]

00:52:05   so whatever Microsoft was trying to said [TS]

00:52:07   they were they were conveying a message [TS]

00:52:08   with their UI this is more exciting [TS]

00:52:10   Windows XP it's it's not this stayed old [TS]

00:52:12   Windows 95 they used it it was all grey [TS]

00:52:14   it's it's you know it's new it's shiny [TS]

00:52:16   you know it's plastic fantastic whatever [TS]

00:52:20   first thing I would do in a row get on [TS]

00:52:22   an XP box and I still have a couple of [TS]

00:52:25   them here in the studio that we use for [TS]

00:52:27   different things immediately immediately [TS]

00:52:28   switch it back to classic immediately [TS]

00:52:31   yeah even the metrics were different [TS]

00:52:33   like the windows were the window title [TS]

00:52:34   bar was thicker yeah tarimov blue thing [TS]

00:52:36   it wasn't any clearly was not an [TS]

00:52:38   improvement nobody liked that some [TS]

00:52:40   people did because I thought you're [TS]

00:52:42   interesting but hey Mon so so let's [TS]

00:52:43   compare this to a different mood from an [TS]

00:52:47   OS vendor which is a next step next step [TS]

00:52:49   was just gray as far as the eye could [TS]

00:52:52   see everything was gray or black it [TS]

00:52:54   looked like you know a banker suit right [TS]

00:52:58   these things sounds like I'm just [TS]

00:53:00   talking about fashion again but I'm not [TS]

00:53:02   because there's a mood to the operating [TS]

00:53:03   system that affects the people using it [TS]

00:53:05   if you make something bright and shiny [TS]

00:53:06   and blinking and everything that has a [TS]

00:53:08   different effect on the user than if you [TS]

00:53:10   make something that sort of calm or [TS]

00:53:12   soothing right now in today's market for [TS]

00:53:15   computers this happens on an app by app [TS]

00:53:17   basis sometimes like for example games [TS]

00:53:19   tend to have more frantic you eyes with [TS]

00:53:20   you know the menus make noises when you [TS]

00:53:22   mouse over them and things are animated [TS]

00:53:24   there's a background going on there's [TS]

00:53:25   music and stuff like that that's [TS]

00:53:26   appropriate for a game versus the other [TS]

00:53:28   end of the spectrum are like these uh [TS]

00:53:30   Merlin's favorite distraction free [TS]

00:53:32   writing environments where the UI just [TS]

00:53:34   go away entirely and just simple calm [TS]

00:53:36   screen just your words in front of you [TS]

00:53:38   to help you think so this is an [TS]

00:53:39   interface that's not changing based on [TS]

00:53:41   fashions changing because they think [TS]

00:53:42   making this thing look different will [TS]

00:53:44   make the user feel different it makes [TS]

00:53:45   user perform differently and the whole [TS]

00:53:49   OS has that you know can do that as well [TS]

00:53:51   now with the whole OS it's different [TS]

00:53:53   than on app by app basis because the [TS]

00:53:54   whole of us has to strike a balance they [TS]

00:53:55   can't make a UI that looks like the [TS]

00:53:57   interface to a pop cap game because [TS]

00:53:58   people will not use that daily basis [TS]

00:54:00   right but they also probably don't want [TS]

00:54:03   to make an interface look [TS]

00:54:04   like the old next step where just [TS]

00:54:05   everything is super boring all the time [TS]

00:54:06   because one of the important features of [TS]

00:54:09   all these things with UI is I can [TS]

00:54:11   divided Apple make that CD player look [TS]

00:54:12   like that why did the control panel have [TS]

00:54:14   the little turtle and the hare icons on [TS]

00:54:15   it sometimes you do things this is you [TS]

00:54:18   know a third thing fashion mood [TS]

00:54:19   sometimes just doing for fun because hey [TS]

00:54:22   let's have some fun here that when I [TS]

00:54:24   remember seeing that little turtle in [TS]

00:54:25   the hair and I'd figured out is like a [TS]

00:54:26   10 year old oh that means faster and [TS]

00:54:28   slower than rain it's fun to discover [TS]

00:54:30   that it's fun to have a CD player that [TS]

00:54:32   you can change to bright red because I [TS]

00:54:34   always made mine red because I thought [TS]

00:54:35   they look the best a lot other people [TS]

00:54:37   kept there as as black you know it's [TS]

00:54:38   like what color do you keep your CD play [TS]

00:54:39   it's just a music player why not make it [TS]

00:54:41   fun right now the limitations of all [TS]

00:54:46   these changes of you know doing things [TS]

00:54:47   for fashion or for mood or just for the [TS]

00:54:49   heck of it is are we straying too far [TS]

00:54:51   away from the users ability to figure [TS]

00:54:54   out what it is can people still identify [TS]

00:54:55   where the clothes boxes do they know [TS]

00:54:57   that this is a button do they know that [TS]

00:54:58   you can press this and we've seen [TS]

00:54:59   instances where they've gone too far [TS]

00:55:01   like the QuickTime 4 player remember [TS]

00:55:02   that oh yeah it was one of the first [TS]

00:55:04   brush metal things you had a remote [TS]

00:55:06   control that was a dial like you like a [TS]

00:55:09   thumb dial I got a physical device where [TS]

00:55:11   use a dial that was embedded in the [TS]

00:55:13   device in just a small arc of the circle [TS]

00:55:15   would stick above the top knee but rub [TS]

00:55:18   it with your thumb right so they put [TS]

00:55:19   this in a UI a picture of a dial that [TS]

00:55:21   you were looking at head on that you had [TS]

00:55:22   to like scrub your mouse across to turn [TS]

00:55:24   the dye it's not obvious that that's [TS]

00:55:27   what you were supposed to do with that [TS]

00:55:28   thing because no one had ever seen in [TS]

00:55:29   control like that before and I guess you [TS]

00:55:31   could kind of hear it with there was a [TS]

00:55:32   dial but you weren't sure how to [TS]

00:55:33   manipulate it with your mouse cursor you [TS]

00:55:35   know which touch you guys is easier [TS]

00:55:36   because I think if you put that in front [TS]

00:55:37   of a kid as a touch you I they might [TS]

00:55:39   just swipe it with the finger and figure [TS]

00:55:40   it out but with a mouse we weren't [TS]

00:55:42   thinking quite the same thing there so [TS]

00:55:44   you can definitely go too far in that [TS]

00:55:47   direction now fast forwarding to Mac OS [TS]

00:55:52   10 right all the things that we just [TS]

00:55:54   subscribed from system 7 and the [TS]

00:55:56   original Mac OS and stuff like that [TS]

00:55:58   we've seen in Mac OS 10 and I would say [TS]

00:56:01   to lesser degrees so they did the brush [TS]

00:56:02   metal thing but it wasn't a custom [TS]

00:56:04   control you can make your own brush [TS]

00:56:06   metal windows and no one really [TS]

00:56:07   understood why you would make something [TS]

00:56:08   brush metal did have to do with mood was [TS]

00:56:10   it just fashion was there some was it [TS]

00:56:13   more fun to do brush metal people made [TS]

00:56:15   their own decisions about that [TS]

00:56:17   but eventually Apple rained it back in [TS]

00:56:20   and said okay it's clear that the [TS]

00:56:21   advantage of brush metal whatever they [TS]

00:56:23   may be are outweighed by the [TS]

00:56:24   disadvantages of people just using it [TS]

00:56:25   willy-nilly so we'll bring it back down [TS]

00:56:27   so I think leopard was there when they [TS]

00:56:28   unified everything that was perhaps the [TS]

00:56:31   most stayed they have ever been with [TS]

00:56:33   user interface elements where they [TS]

00:56:35   unified all their applications to a [TS]

00:56:37   single appearance and they hadn't start [TS]

00:56:40   going off and weird iOS directions yet [TS]

00:56:41   so it's kind of like a quiet period for [TS]

00:56:43   for the UI but Mac OS 10 introduced a [TS]

00:56:46   new feature to user interface something [TS]

00:56:49   that people usually talk about because [TS]

00:56:50   you can't see it that well in [TS]

00:56:51   screenshots that Mac OS 10 this is an [TS]

00:56:54   example of a togs increased bandwidth it [TS]

00:56:58   might be on appearance it added [TS]

00:57:00   animation so this is another [TS]

00:57:03   characteristic of user interface that [TS]

00:57:04   doesn't show up in screenshots but now [TS]

00:57:06   we've suddenly had the technology to [TS]

00:57:08   make things move and how they move would [TS]

00:57:10   define how they felt to you so there [TS]

00:57:13   between a picture of a cat to see a cat [TS]

00:57:14   walk a cat feels different once you know [TS]

00:57:16   how it moves right so once animation [TS]

00:57:19   became a valid vector for innovation [TS]

00:57:23   Apple threw it on top of Mac OS 10 and [TS]

00:57:25   said oh for example we're gonna do a [TS]

00:57:27   genie to a dock we're going to make the [TS]

00:57:28   window animate in the smooth way down to [TS]

00:57:31   the dock now that was whimsical right it [TS]

00:57:34   was fun and it was interesting in people [TS]

00:57:35   all who do nod when they first saw it [TS]

00:57:37   but actually also served a purpose let [TS]

00:57:38   you know where the heck to your window [TS]

00:57:39   went because if you click that minimize [TS]

00:57:41   widget you have no idea that when you [TS]

00:57:42   minimize windows they go to the docks [TS]

00:57:43   boom you you click the the window widget [TS]

00:57:46   and the window disappeared you be like [TS]

00:57:47   where'd my window go mm-hmm and if you [TS]

00:57:49   didn't notice that a tiny white square [TS]

00:57:50   it appeared in your dock you know maybe [TS]

00:57:52   you wouldn't notice that and the dock [TS]

00:57:53   itself animates as well it moves the [TS]

00:57:55   dock slowly expands to accept the window [TS]

00:57:57   going into it so the Genie thing was [TS]

00:57:59   like a great example firing on all [TS]

00:58:01   cylinders in terms of the UI it was [TS]

00:58:03   whimsical it was fun it set a mood and [TS]

00:58:05   it served an important function you [TS]

00:58:07   could not do without it all right and [TS]

00:58:09   with the advent of core animation in [TS]

00:58:11   later versions of Mac OS 10 animations [TS]

00:58:13   just everywhere now and in most cases [TS]

00:58:15   animation does all those things [TS]

00:58:16   continues to do all those things it [TS]

00:58:18   conveys information that's important to [TS]

00:58:20   the user it's fun and whimsical [TS]

00:58:23   interesting and it sets the mood for the [TS]

00:58:25   operating system this is a smooth place [TS]

00:58:26   where things glide from place to place [TS]

00:58:28   and they don't jump from one place the [TS]

00:58:30   other it's not [TS]

00:58:31   it's not garish it's not frantic or [TS]

00:58:33   off-putting it's just it's relaxing and [TS]

00:58:35   calm and casual and things glide like [TS]

00:58:37   water it puts me into the flow right [TS]

00:58:41   yeah this is this is an example of [TS]

00:58:45   things don't have to look the same to [TS]

00:58:47   behave to look exactly the same like so [TS]

00:58:49   for the genie effect you can do it where [TS]

00:58:51   it squishes the window down into a [TS]

00:58:52   little funnel you can do the one where [TS]

00:58:54   it scales [TS]

00:58:55   I'm sure they had other effects like I [TS]

00:58:56   don't think that used to be one that [TS]

00:58:57   where it sheared it all these different [TS]

00:58:59   animation effects don't confuse people [TS]

00:59:01   in terms of what does it mean when the [TS]

00:59:03   window scales down to the dock versus [TS]

00:59:04   when it loses down there like it's being [TS]

00:59:06   squeezed into a genie bottle it means [TS]

00:59:07   the same thing people don't get confused [TS]

00:59:09   about it at all now is some more [TS]

00:59:12   examples from today that have people [TS]

00:59:14   angry and freaking out when they move [TS]

00:59:17   the window widgets and iTunes do you [TS]

00:59:18   remember that it was like iTunes 10 yeah [TS]

00:59:20   and the is it been the mini player and [TS]

00:59:22   all the players in some some versions of [TS]

00:59:25   some modes the window widgets and iTunes [TS]

00:59:28   are stacked vertically like stoplights [TS]

00:59:30   instead of horizontally like they are [TS]

00:59:31   every place else now this is an example [TS]

00:59:36   of where if you were to ask somebody and [TS]

00:59:39   they said where's the closed widget on [TS]

00:59:40   the iTunes window they would look for [TS]

00:59:41   the red dot and they would find it right [TS]

00:59:43   whereas the minimized waited all the [TS]

00:59:44   yellow dot and they would find it it's [TS]

00:59:46   clearly identifiable as the clothes [TS]

00:59:50   minimize and zoom widgets they're just [TS]

00:59:52   in different places right but the [TS]

00:59:55   downside is that those widgets changing [TS]

00:59:59   their appearance would [TS]

00:59:59   their appearance would [TS]

01:00:00   we've been fine they kept the appearance [TS]

01:00:01   but they change the position and what [TS]

01:00:02   that does is it breaks your muscle [TS]

01:00:03   memories when you reach for like the [TS]

01:00:04   minimize widget it's not where it used [TS]

01:00:06   to be right when you reach for the zoom [TS]

01:00:08   box the change from any player to the [TS]

01:00:10   other player it's not where it used to [TS]

01:00:11   be so you end up reaching with your [TS]

01:00:13   mouse to the wrong spot briefly and then [TS]

01:00:14   correcting if they move all the widgets [TS]

01:00:17   there eventually your muscle man we were [TS]

01:00:19   to retrain itself but if you just move [TS]

01:00:20   it in one application you're never going [TS]

01:00:24   to retrain your hand your hand is going [TS]

01:00:25   to be retrained for all the the other [TS]

01:00:27   windows that are normal and when you hit [TS]

01:00:29   the iTunes window you will forever be [TS]

01:00:31   going to their slightly the wrong place [TS]

01:00:32   going it's like a little it's like a [TS]

01:00:33   little pebble in your shoe yeah you know [TS]

01:00:35   it starts off it's not a big deal but [TS]

01:00:37   eventually like aw for the love of God [TS]

01:00:38   put the thing back where it's supposed [TS]

01:00:39   to be that's why I was so annoyed by the [TS]

01:00:42   moving this thing is because what's the [TS]

01:00:44   advantage did you change the appearance [TS]

01:00:45   to change in the mood no is it whimsical [TS]

01:00:47   and fun no all you did was put in a [TS]

01:00:50   different place or the one I try to [TS]

01:00:51   click on it I miss slightly and I'm [TS]

01:00:53   never gonna learn it because every other [TS]

01:00:54   widget is in a different place so I [TS]

01:00:56   applied that hack that puts them back [TS]

01:00:58   into the right place this would be an [TS]

01:00:59   example of a change that not many people [TS]

01:01:01   were bothered by you didn't you know you [TS]

01:01:03   heard a little bit of noise from people [TS]

01:01:05   here and there but people just got used [TS]

01:01:06   to it but I would say this is this is an [TS]

01:01:08   example the worst possible change that [TS]

01:01:10   Apple can do because it had none of the [TS]

01:01:11   advantages of changing the appearance or [TS]

01:01:13   any of the other ways it goo is working [TS]

01:01:14   and a disadvantage that just you know [TS]

01:01:17   grows with time and grates on you all [TS]

01:01:20   right let me stop you we're going to do [TS]

01:01:21   our second sponsor break this one is [TS]

01:01:23   pretty cool this is my MailChimp but [TS]

01:01:25   it's it's a special thing they've built [TS]

01:01:27   called chimp kit have you heard about [TS]

01:01:29   this John maybe you're unplugging you [TS]

01:01:30   should unplug now I did unplugging on [TS]

01:01:33   back ok you heard about this chimp kit I [TS]

01:01:35   have this is very cool so if one of the [TS]

01:01:39   problems that you have as an iOS [TS]

01:01:40   developer is getting in touch with the [TS]

01:01:43   people who are actually using and [TS]

01:01:44   downloading your apps you pretty much [TS]

01:01:46   you can you don't know who's using and [TS]

01:01:48   buying your apps Apple insulates you [TS]

01:01:50   from that and that's certainly a good [TS]

01:01:52   thing for the consumer but what if the [TS]

01:01:53   consumer actually wants to hear about [TS]

01:01:55   the stuff that you're working on how do [TS]

01:01:57   you tell them well you have to send them [TS]

01:01:59   out to an external website they have to [TS]

01:02:01   sign up with the form whatever that's a [TS]

01:02:03   mess and so this is MailChimp way of [TS]

01:02:05   trying to address this issue and they've [TS]

01:02:08   created this thing called chip kit and [TS]

01:02:09   basically it's a drop-in I mean you can [TS]

01:02:12   customize it style [TS]

01:02:13   it anyway you want but it's a drop-in [TS]

01:02:15   component that you put right into your [TS]

01:02:18   app all the code is there it's all open [TS]

01:02:20   sourced and what it does is it allows [TS]

01:02:22   you to keep in touch with your users by [TS]

01:02:25   providing it with a simple signup form [TS]

01:02:27   so that they can get your newsletter and [TS]

01:02:29   MailChimp also lets you have 2,000 [TS]

01:02:31   subscribers for free so so not only is [TS]

01:02:35   the chimp kit free but you can have [TS]

01:02:37   2,000 subscribers for free and integrate [TS]

01:02:41   this into your app so that that way [TS]

01:02:42   people can just with a couple taps [TS]

01:02:44   they're signed up there getting your [TS]

01:02:46   newsletter they're hearing what other [TS]

01:02:48   cool apps you're building you can get [TS]

01:02:49   directly in touch with them so if you're [TS]

01:02:51   building an iOS app you've got to use [TS]

01:02:53   this you've just got to put it in you [TS]

01:02:54   can find out more about it by going to [TS]

01:02:56   MailChimp calm slash chimp kit I want to [TS]

01:03:00   see this in every iOS app now because [TS]

01:03:02   there's a lot of times yeah how do you [TS]

01:03:03   find out that Angry Birds Rio came out [TS]

01:03:06   if you forget to go to the site every [TS]

01:03:08   day you wouldn't know it's all I'm [TS]

01:03:11   saying I love the fact that they prefix [TS]

01:03:15   everything with chimp like back in the [TS]

01:03:17   old days every Mac application had Mac [TS]

01:03:18   Mac right Mac Paint Mac you draw Mac [TS]

01:03:20   this and now it's chimp chimp this [TS]

01:03:22   that's right yeah exactly everything is [TS]

01:03:24   it's about is to anything valid prefix [TS]

01:03:26   for any kind of product if your company [TS]

01:03:28   name is MailChimp yeah all right so the [TS]

01:03:32   last little bit I've got on the UI thing [TS]

01:03:34   is the most recent example is the the [TS]

01:03:38   iCal in Lion which can we can we talk [TS]

01:03:41   about this yeah cuz it leaked all over I [TS]

01:03:43   just pasted a URL into the chat room [TS]

01:03:45   it's a ARS technica article that shows [TS]

01:03:47   the very top what I Cal looks like in [TS]

01:03:50   the second Developer Preview of I know I [TS]

01:03:53   haven't installed that yet what are you [TS]

01:03:55   running that on II rebooting into it [TS]

01:03:56   what are you doing I read into it I have [TS]

01:03:58   another drive dedicated just for her [TS]

01:04:00   lion I had more machines i wouldnt have [TS]

01:04:02   to do that but yeah so people who aren't [TS]

01:04:05   looking at the screenshot right now the [TS]

01:04:07   iCal in Lion Developer Preview to the [TS]

01:04:11   top of the window where it's normally [TS]

01:04:12   like the title bar on the toolbar that [TS]

01:04:14   whole thing is made to look like a [TS]

01:04:15   leather and underneath the toolbar [TS]

01:04:18   there's a big thick row what looks like [TS]

01:04:20   a row be white stitching going [TS]

01:04:22   it's the stents what holds the paper [TS]

01:04:24   into the leather binding right and then [TS]

01:04:26   the paper portion like [TS]

01:04:27   where the calendar is it looks like a [TS]

01:04:29   tear-off that calendar we got torn off a [TS]

01:04:31   few pages beforehand there's a little [TS]

01:04:33   scrim of paper that didn't get torn off [TS]

01:04:36   all the way right all right so the word [TS]

01:04:39   for this I should have put this in my [TS]

01:04:40   notes but is it someone else will say [TS]

01:04:41   does it skeuomorphic something like that [TS]

01:04:43   the word for making a interface look [TS]

01:04:47   like a physical thing that they really [TS]

01:04:53   has no reason to correspond with so you [TS]

01:04:54   know it this let's make it look like a [TS]

01:04:56   physical calendar let's make the user [TS]

01:04:57   interface look like a physical calendar [TS]

01:04:59   even though it is not a physical [TS]

01:05:01   calendar and has no reason to be bound [TS]

01:05:02   by the same things now here's we're [TS]

01:05:04   going to say about the crazy iCal [TS]

01:05:06   weather whether it actually ships in the [TS]

01:05:08   final version the operating system or [TS]

01:05:09   not so first let's look at what they did [TS]

01:05:11   did they move anything around not really [TS]

01:05:14   the window widgets are in the same place [TS]

01:05:15   there are buttons that are the same [TS]

01:05:17   there's a tab control which is the same [TS]

01:05:19   as the standard tab controls search [TS]

01:05:20   boxes in the same place same size and [TS]

01:05:23   shape so this is not going to mess with [TS]

01:05:25   you in terms of I don't know where the [TS]

01:05:26   controls are where's the search box [TS]

01:05:28   where is the clothes widget how do I [TS]

01:05:29   change view everything is exactly where [TS]

01:05:31   you would expect it in the same size you [TS]

01:05:33   would expect it they didn't make the [TS]

01:05:34   target smaller they didn't make the the [TS]

01:05:36   things bigger so they're taking up more [TS]

01:05:38   room so there are no problems there no [TS]

01:05:42   is it whimsical and fun well that really [TS]

01:05:45   depends on your point of view I would [TS]

01:05:48   definitely say it's whimsical yes you [TS]

01:05:50   know what whether or not it's fun I [TS]

01:05:52   don't know it what it comes down to I [TS]

01:05:54   think is the reason people are screaming [TS]

01:05:56   about iCal is that if you think it's [TS]

01:06:00   ugly then you don't like it all right so [TS]

01:06:03   it's not a functional problem and it's [TS]

01:06:05   not even that there are spoil sports and [TS]

01:06:07   don't want interfaces to be fun because [TS]

01:06:08   there are plenty of Apple interfaces [TS]

01:06:09   that are fun where people think it's [TS]

01:06:12   appropriate or interesting but if you [TS]

01:06:13   think if you think it's ugly or if you [TS]

01:06:15   think I Cal is a serious application and [TS]

01:06:17   it should not be this whimsical and [TS]

01:06:18   interesting those are two reasons why [TS]

01:06:20   you might not like this and it's tough [TS]

01:06:21   for Apple to make judgments on that [TS]

01:06:24   because Apple sort of the one that [TS]

01:06:25   dictates the the mood of the application [TS]

01:06:28   they say we want we want calendaring to [TS]

01:06:30   be fun so we're going to make our [TS]

01:06:31   application you know more fun and [TS]

01:06:33   interesting because we think that's what [TS]

01:06:35   people want an apple probably has some [TS]

01:06:37   support in that area but they say look [TS]

01:06:38   what we did on the iPad [TS]

01:06:39   all our apps on the iPad or so [TS]

01:06:41   of fun and whimsical and sometimes look [TS]

01:06:43   like physical applications and hey [TS]

01:06:44   people seem to love those so why don't [TS]

01:06:48   we do the same thing on the Mac No maybe [TS]

01:06:49   it's a different user base maybe they [TS]

01:06:50   misjudged the way most people will react [TS]

01:06:52   to this or maybe they'll just stick to [TS]

01:06:54   their guns ignore the the the cries for [TS]

01:06:57   you know against this look and just ship [TS]

01:07:00   it and say you know it's not the end of [TS]

01:07:02   the world people got used to it the [TS]

01:07:04   first time you show it new Mac user this [TS]

01:07:05   thing will say oh wow look at that and [TS]

01:07:07   then from that point on whenever they [TS]

01:07:08   see the weird application with a title [TS]

01:07:11   bar looks like the outside of a football [TS]

01:07:13   let's say oh that's iCal maybe that's [TS]

01:07:15   what they're going to do is define a [TS]

01:07:16   brand for this and you know from this [TS]

01:07:21   point on this is way would be the way [TS]

01:07:23   that I Cal looks or maybe they'll change [TS]

01:07:24   them on another major version but in the [TS]

01:07:26   end of the day I don't think this change [TS]

01:07:29   is any more radical than any of Apple's [TS]

01:07:32   own official appearance schemes than any [TS]

01:07:34   kaleidoscope scheme then the original [TS]

01:07:36   control panel on the original Mac from [TS]

01:07:38   day one it's not any worse than any [TS]

01:07:41   other things I've done in fact I think [TS]

01:07:43   it's better in many respects in it at [TS]

01:07:45   the very least they're not breaking a UI [TS]

01:07:47   that works they're not making the [TS]

01:07:48   control so far away from what they [TS]

01:07:50   normally look like the people don't [TS]

01:07:51   understand what they do [TS]

01:07:53   they've just simply chosen a fashion [TS]

01:07:55   that people may or may not agree with [TS]

01:07:57   now there is if there is a checkbox in [TS]

01:07:59   there that said that you could revert [TS]

01:08:02   back just by checking a box and switch [TS]

01:08:06   to non leather-bound version of the [TS]

01:08:09   calendar would you I don't use iCal so I [TS]

01:08:13   have no opinion one way or the other I'm [TS]

01:08:15   think I probably would because I think [TS]

01:08:17   it's ugly right and that's a subjective [TS]

01:08:19   you think based on fashion I just simply [TS]

01:08:21   think it's ugly and off-putting [TS]

01:08:23   now people as people will ask John what [TS]

01:08:25   do you use instead of iCal [TS]

01:08:26   eyes Google Calendar because I can share [TS]

01:08:30   the calendars with all the rest of the [TS]

01:08:31   family and we can update each other's [TS]

01:08:32   calendars and you can you can use iCal [TS]

01:08:35   to talk to a Google Calendar with I know [TS]

01:08:37   I think I actually do have iCal set up [TS]

01:08:40   to sync up my Google Calendar but I [TS]

01:08:41   simply never launched it ok maybe when I [TS]

01:08:43   get my own iPad I will start using my [TS]

01:08:45   caching right I check out busy Cal yeah [TS]

01:08:48   I've heard good things about those [TS]

01:08:49   things I'm not sure about using not a [TS]

01:08:51   big calendaring guy the only thing I'm [TS]

01:08:52   using my calendar for it to keep up with [TS]

01:08:53   like family events so [TS]

01:08:55   when we have to take up the kids or you [TS]

01:08:56   know when we have appointments or things [TS]

01:08:58   stuff like that what I don't what I [TS]

01:09:00   don't like the only thing I don't like [TS]

01:09:02   about I I agree that is kind of ugly but [TS]

01:09:04   I feel like the interface might grow on [TS]

01:09:06   me a little bit I just don't like the [TS]

01:09:08   little the little shim a paper that's [TS]

01:09:10   left I don't like like that really bugs [TS]

01:09:11   me seeing a little torn off remnants it [TS]

01:09:15   does this because I like you know I what [TS]

01:09:16   I like about Mac os10 is it's clean it's [TS]

01:09:19   nice it's still it has a bit of [TS]

01:09:23   personality to it without being [TS]

01:09:24   over-the-top and then you look at this [TS]

01:09:27   and you're like why leave a little rip [TS]

01:09:29   piece of pay I just don't like that [TS]

01:09:31   because I in real life if I had that [TS]

01:09:32   little rip piece of paper I'd go get a [TS]

01:09:35   little you know safety pin or pencil [TS]

01:09:38   eraser and remove that I don't like that [TS]

01:09:40   I don't like I don't like notebooks [TS]

01:09:41   where you tear stuff off if the [TS]

01:09:43   perforation isn't really good that's one [TS]

01:09:45   of the reasons why I really like these [TS]

01:09:46   like the field notes calendar the field [TS]

01:09:49   notes calendar is great because it just [TS]

01:09:50   has those two staples and when you rip [TS]

01:09:53   off the the month calendar there's [TS]

01:09:56   nothing left you don't have that binding [TS]

01:09:57   up that just bugs me you get buildup on [TS]

01:10:00   the staples too eventually [TS]

01:10:01   no no because these staples are pretty [TS]

01:10:03   firm and they actually stand out in a [TS]

01:10:07   way they're very strong rigid staples [TS]

01:10:09   that they used so you actually have [TS]

01:10:10   space there and there's nothing we get [TS]

01:10:12   stuck under there so you know there's a [TS]

01:10:14   big overlap between people who have [TS]

01:10:15   vague sort of OCD tendencies and people [TS]

01:10:18   who are heavily into computers because [TS]

01:10:19   computers are sort of that one place in [TS]

01:10:21   the world where you can make things just [TS]

01:10:22   super fancy it's not it's not a physical [TS]

01:10:24   world so you can you can align things [TS]

01:10:26   perfectly for example if you're into [TS]

01:10:28   like aligning pixels or whatever right [TS]

01:10:29   you can erase things completely but you [TS]

01:10:31   can't do on real paper and so people who [TS]

01:10:33   are drawn to that because they get upset [TS]

01:10:34   in real life by things that are [TS]

01:10:36   physically imperfect were drawn to the [TS]

01:10:38   computers at a young age and now are the [TS]

01:10:40   most enthusiastic computer users so when [TS]

01:10:42   you give them an interface that brings [TS]

01:10:44   the things they didn't like about the [TS]

01:10:45   physical world into the they're formerly [TS]

01:10:48   clean place yeah they've got upset too [TS]

01:10:50   I don't think that's a valid reason for [TS]

01:10:52   Apple not to do this because the vast [TS]

01:10:54   majority people are not inclined like [TS]

01:10:57   that and others think it's cute and [TS]

01:10:58   never give it a second thought after [TS]

01:10:59   after that right all right so I think [TS]

01:11:01   that is not a reason for them to say [TS]

01:11:03   well you know we are we are violating [TS]

01:11:05   this perfect space that previously was a [TS]

01:11:07   place where we these limitations [TS]

01:11:09   apply if if the entire world were like [TS]

01:11:13   you and I then yes they would they would [TS]

01:11:15   have to get rid of it but our world is [TS]

01:11:17   not like you and I so I think a lot of [TS]

01:11:19   people would think III really listening [TS]

01:11:21   to the show will agree that yeah but [TS]

01:11:24   people just a regular regular person or [TS]

01:11:26   a regular human is gonna look at [TS]

01:11:28   distance no that's cool looks is like a [TS]

01:11:29   calendar man this is like calendar yeah [TS]

01:11:32   or not notice it at all which is the the [TS]

01:11:35   case there would be most common and for [TS]

01:11:36   example if I was to put this thing in [TS]

01:11:37   front of my parents they would I would [TS]

01:11:39   take I would have to ask them like you [TS]

01:11:41   see anything what do you think about [TS]

01:11:42   this he's anything different first they [TS]

01:11:43   wouldn't even recognize that the window [TS]

01:11:44   title bar is different right like they [TS]

01:11:47   would just think I'll you know it [TS]

01:11:48   wouldn't occur to them that there is a [TS]

01:11:49   standard window title bar and this one [TS]

01:11:51   is not standard in a second if you try [TS]

01:11:52   to get to see those little pieces of [TS]

01:11:53   paper forget it like and when you did [TS]

01:11:55   pointed out that they like oh so what am [TS]

01:11:57   I supposed to be seeing here yeah looks [TS]

01:11:58   like baby paper whatever like so here's [TS]

01:12:01   something now in in the past when Apple [TS]

01:12:04   did for the most part when they came out [TS]

01:12:06   with different styles of window chrome [TS]

01:12:11   like brushed metal brushed aluminum uh [TS]

01:12:14   you you could use that as a developer [TS]

01:12:17   you could say I want a brushed metal [TS]

01:12:19   look for my app you know you could make [TS]

01:12:22   an app that used brush metal and you you [TS]

01:12:25   would be you would be defamed by your [TS]

01:12:28   user group but I mean you could you [TS]

01:12:30   could do that do you do you think that [TS]

01:12:32   these unique styles are going to be I'm [TS]

01:12:36   not I haven't looked at the the lion SDK [TS]

01:12:39   at all do you know if these are going to [TS]

01:12:40   be available if you heard any discussion [TS]

01:12:42   of this like if I wanted to make an app [TS]

01:12:44   could I grab the leather binding and use [TS]

01:12:46   that it's looking I think brush metal is [TS]

01:12:49   an aberration like I said all the [TS]

01:12:50   previous cases where they made custom UI [TS]

01:12:52   is like the cd-player thing or that you [TS]

01:12:54   know any other application that look [TS]

01:12:55   different that was not available to [TS]

01:12:57   third-party developers brush metal was [TS]

01:12:58   one of the first times you know in the [TS]

01:13:00   Mac os10 era they got completely got rid [TS]

01:13:01   of theming right but they experimented [TS]

01:13:04   with all sorts of new UI is like that [TS]

01:13:05   drawer member drawers popping out of the [TS]

01:13:07   ends and sheets and it was the first [TS]

01:13:08   time they'd gone back to the drawing [TS]

01:13:09   board and said are there some new parts [TS]

01:13:11   that we can put it in our parts bin and [TS]

01:13:12   one of those parts was a window that [TS]

01:13:14   looks different and that was a change [TS]

01:13:15   because in the past there had not been [TS]

01:13:17   such radical different looks in the [TS]

01:13:19   standard sort of tool box for building [TS]

01:13:21   things and I think they decided [TS]

01:13:23   that experiment was not successful and [TS]

01:13:25   then even though Apple thought they knew [TS]

01:13:27   when using brush metal was appropriate [TS]

01:13:29   if you put it in the tool box it gets [TS]

01:13:31   used far and wide and in ways that Apple [TS]

01:13:34   didn't think it was appropriate so I [TS]

01:13:36   think they are back to keeping the [TS]

01:13:38   toolbox pared down and most definitely [TS]

01:13:40   not providing you with a way to make the [TS]

01:13:42   top of your window leather not providing [TS]

01:13:44   you with a way to make it would like in [TS]

01:13:45   GarageBand I'm not regiments they like [TS]

01:13:47   that but apples Applications photo booth [TS]

01:13:49   you know even things like iMovie you [TS]

01:13:51   know they will do custom controls that [TS]

01:13:53   they feel are appropriate or even custom [TS]

01:13:55   windows entirely they feel are [TS]

01:13:56   appropriate for their applications but [TS]

01:13:57   they will not provide third-party [TS]

01:13:59   libraries for other people to do that [TS]

01:14:00   you want to do it for your app feel free [TS]

01:14:02   to make your own custom control but if [TS]

01:14:03   they make it as easy as a checkbox then [TS]

01:14:05   every single you know a $0.99 shareware [TS]

01:14:09   thing or whatever in the Mac App Store [TS]

01:14:11   is going to have leather window and it [TS]

01:14:12   would just be a plague of leather [TS]

01:14:14   windows and in places where it's totally [TS]

01:14:16   not appropriate so I don't know whether [TS]

01:14:18   that's part of the standard UI but I'm [TS]

01:14:19   going to say 99.9 repeating percent [TS]

01:14:22   chance that that is not a standard [TS]

01:14:24   control that people can use nor will it [TS]

01:14:26   ever be I think that's a reasonable [TS]

01:14:28   decision okay so one last point in this [TS]

01:14:33   so Gruber has this talk that he gave a [TS]

01:14:35   while back I don't know if he still [TS]

01:14:37   gives it about the hIgG is dead mm-hmm I [TS]

01:14:40   think it was said one of the early c4c [TS]

01:14:43   gave it talked originally ah [TS]

01:14:44   and despite I I don't know if you just [TS]

01:14:48   hear the title you think that that talk [TS]

01:14:50   agrees with what I just talked about or [TS]

01:14:52   disagrees with it but either way I think [TS]

01:14:53   it's just a question of looking at the [TS]

01:14:55   same issue from two different sides the [TS]

01:14:57   first thing I'm going to say is that the [TS]

01:14:59   egg is not dead in the sense that it's [TS]

01:15:00   gone yeah I will put this in the show [TS]

01:15:02   notes you can link to the Mac os10 human [TS]

01:15:03   interface guidelines they're on Apple's [TS]

01:15:05   website you can look at them and you can [TS]

01:15:07   read them in there every bit as fussy as [TS]

01:15:08   they have ever been this is how big [TS]

01:15:10   button should be this is how far apart [TS]

01:15:11   there should be down to the pixel this [TS]

01:15:13   is how you should align things these are [TS]

01:15:14   the labels you should put on button name [TS]

01:15:15   right so the type of dialogues you [TS]

01:15:17   should have and this is the image you [TS]

01:15:18   should have in the corner of everything [TS]

01:15:19   with this these are the kind of windows [TS]

01:15:21   that should have minimize what it's [TS]

01:15:22   active and inactive and close it is [TS]

01:15:25   every bit as details it used to be and [TS]

01:15:26   if anything it is more detailed oh but [TS]

01:15:29   what what the big is dead is talking [TS]

01:15:31   about is basically the idea which I [TS]

01:15:34   don't think was ever a real thing but [TS]

01:15:35   the idea in people's heads [TS]

01:15:37   that there was a time when the human [TS]

01:15:38   interface guidelines were gospel and you [TS]

01:15:40   had to follow them and that Apple itself [TS]

01:15:41   religiously adhered to them and now we [TS]

01:15:43   were in the bad the bad times when Apple [TS]

01:15:45   has gone crazy that is completely false [TS]

01:15:47   there was never a time like that Apple [TS]

01:15:50   has always been completely willing to do [TS]

01:15:51   whatever the heck it wants with its you [TS]

01:15:52   eyes and try any possible thing and [TS]

01:15:54   during that time it was also still [TS]

01:15:56   couraging people not do as I say not as [TS]

01:15:58   I do make your UI standard but we're [TS]

01:16:00   going to experiment and that has always [TS]

01:16:02   been the case with Apple and it is to [TS]

01:16:03   this day so I don't think there is a [TS]

01:16:05   time in the past this golden era of UI [TS]

01:16:08   consistency and if anything the recent [TS]

01:16:11   unification in leopard was one of the [TS]

01:16:13   comest periods in in the end the and the [TS]

01:16:16   Mac UI that has ever existed so I would [TS]

01:16:21   definitely would not have gone with the [TS]

01:16:22   hIgG as dead as title because it seems [TS]

01:16:24   to lend credence to the idea that there [TS]

01:16:26   was a time when the egg was more [TS]

01:16:27   important than it is now I think the [TS]

01:16:29   entire history of Apple has shown that [TS]

01:16:30   they've always behaved the same way in [TS]

01:16:32   this regard and if anything the wildest [TS]

01:16:34   possible period was that brief period [TS]

01:16:36   when they were considering doing the [TS]

01:16:37   appearance manager but they bailed at [TS]

01:16:38   that at the last minute anyway they left [TS]

01:16:40   the software in there that you could use [TS]

01:16:41   to to theme with third-party themes and [TS]

01:16:44   I never actually shipped their own [TS]

01:16:45   themes they just sort of leaked out of [TS]

01:16:46   Apple but they never really committed to [TS]

01:16:49   that so I would say Digg is alive and [TS]

01:16:51   well and behaves exactly as it always [TS]

01:16:55   behaved and Apple is behaving the way it [TS]

01:16:57   is always behaved and users as always [TS]

01:17:00   are behaving the way they always behave [TS]

01:17:01   making a big fuss over small changes and [TS]

01:17:03   forgetting about things that have [TS]

01:17:04   happened in the past all that said the [TS]

01:17:06   new iCal is still ugly and I hope they [TS]

01:17:08   change it and that we you know and [TS]

01:17:10   that's something else that you know that [TS]

01:17:12   there's still a lot of time they could I [TS]

01:17:14   doubt they will I think this is clearly [TS]

01:17:16   the direction that they're going for all [TS]

01:17:17   their apps yeah do be I was thinking [TS]

01:17:20   about the previous ugly app I really [TS]

01:17:21   hate it I think this was in leopard 2 [TS]

01:17:23   the way they changed the mail you I [TS]

01:17:24   remember that with those sort of laws [TS]

01:17:26   and she blew laws and shaped buttons and [TS]

01:17:28   not because you know not because it was [TS]

01:17:30   bad UI but because I thought it was ugly [TS]

01:17:31   just plain coming out I thought these [TS]

01:17:33   these are ugly but they're still there [TS]

01:17:35   like how they look they could change [TS]

01:17:37   them a little bit they're not the blue [TS]

01:17:38   capsules that they used to know they're [TS]

01:17:39   not blue but they're they're still the [TS]

01:17:41   same sort of strange yeah so but that's [TS]

01:17:46   it's it's our onic that the most noise [TS]

01:17:48   you hear on the internet is about the [TS]

01:17:50   that people find ugly that there's no [TS]

01:17:52   actual problem with the UI in terms of [TS]

01:17:54   understandability or functionality but [TS]

01:17:55   just because it's ugly and it grates on [TS]

01:17:57   people well that says a lot though about [TS]

01:17:59   the current state of user interface [TS]

01:18:02   development is that pretty much all of [TS]

01:18:05   these things are relatively useable they [TS]

01:18:07   are providing a consistent interface and [TS]

01:18:10   and now it's really down to two things [TS]

01:18:13   like that but what I don't like is that [TS]

01:18:16   you're for these things are forced upon [TS]

01:18:19   you and it's not like they're a third [TS]

01:18:20   party app where you can look at it and [TS]

01:18:22   say oh I'm not going to get that app I'm [TS]

01:18:24   not going to buy it and you can sort of [TS]

01:18:25   punish the developer for straying too [TS]

01:18:27   far from the norm by not buying their [TS]

01:18:30   app and create change and affect change [TS]

01:18:33   in that way it's like this way of course [TS]

01:18:35   I want all the new things that lion has [TS]

01:18:36   to offer and now I've got to use this [TS]

01:18:38   crappy looking calendar app but I don't [TS]

01:18:40   have any say in it [TS]

01:18:40   see we should have done the Quick Pick [TS]

01:18:42   Mac App Store rejection thing because [TS]

01:18:44   that would have been a point on that is [TS]

01:18:44   that you know it's all well and good but [TS]

01:18:47   when there are no alternatives to the [TS]

01:18:48   application then people are forced to [TS]

01:18:50   use you're forced to use it you're [TS]

01:18:51   forced to support it and and then this [TS]

01:18:53   is the one this is the one thing and you [TS]

01:18:55   touched on this but I'll just kind of [TS]

01:18:57   reiterate it the more Apple does this [TS]

01:19:00   the more it encourages developers to do [TS]

01:19:02   it the more it oh it says this is okay [TS]

01:19:05   right I'd say I don't [TS]

01:19:07   maybe maybe developers are encouraged by [TS]

01:19:09   that but but again from from day one [TS]

01:19:13   developers could have looked at what [TS]

01:19:14   Apple did in the control bound side well [TS]

01:19:16   they feel no compunction about making [TS]

01:19:18   completely custom UI so I my word [TS]

01:19:20   processor but I think that the real the [TS]

01:19:22   real Gateway is when you provide them a [TS]

01:19:24   checkbox interface builder to make your [TS]

01:19:26   window brush metal then the floodgates [TS]

01:19:27   open yes yes yes you're right you're [TS]

01:19:30   right but at the same time there are a [TS]

01:19:32   lot of developers out there who are [TS]

01:19:34   gonna say ah the regular Mac OS [TS]

01:19:36   interface that's boring now they're [TS]

01:19:38   doing this other cool stuff and there's [TS]

01:19:40   all these iOS apps out there I'm gonna [TS]

01:19:41   I'm gonna do my own thing now and I'm [TS]

01:19:44   you know it just I feel like the [TS]

01:19:45   proliferation of this is gonna this dis [TS]

01:19:48   encourage I feel like Apple's [TS]

01:19:49   encouraging it by doing this that's what [TS]

01:19:51   I mean I think it's been around forever [TS]

01:19:53   though because the thing is there's a [TS]

01:19:54   high bar to doing a custom UI like this [TS]

01:19:56   you have to have artists on staff or be [TS]

01:19:58   an artist yourself it's not like you can [TS]

01:19:59   say I'm going to draw my own leather [TS]

01:20:01   pattern it will look terrible and no [TS]

01:20:03   matter how [TS]

01:20:03   bad you know and how little taste you [TS]

01:20:05   have you'll recognize that it looks [TS]

01:20:06   terrible you will say Apple this [TS]

01:20:08   something looks like nice and leather I [TS]

01:20:09   scribbled in Photoshop for five minutes [TS]

01:20:10   and this looks horrible right and the [TS]

01:20:12   market will decide that for you because [TS]

01:20:14   Mac applications are supposed to look [TS]

01:20:15   nice but there's been a long long [TS]

01:20:17   history especially in Mac os10 Linde [TS]

01:20:19   quote-unquote bandwidth of the UI has [TS]

01:20:20   been so high of making completely custom [TS]

01:20:23   UI that look awesome like think of [TS]

01:20:24   something like delicious library where [TS]

01:20:26   the entire UI is basically you know a [TS]

01:20:28   drawing of a book okay show but they [TS]

01:20:31   were so cool and so innovative and so [TS]

01:20:33   good that Apple actually had to hire [TS]

01:20:36   their guys away but that's how good they [TS]

01:20:38   were that's when else once Apple [TS]

01:20:39   basically wants they say we would love [TS]

01:20:41   it if you had artists that were ours and [TS]

01:20:43   tout as talented as our artists are or [TS]

01:20:45   more talented then you made your apps [TS]

01:20:46   look awesome that's what we want but [TS]

01:20:48   they're not going to come out and say [TS]

01:20:49   you should make a custom UI for your app [TS]

01:20:51   but WABC they're going to say use [TS]

01:20:53   standard controls do not use custom [TS]

01:20:55   controls make your things that and what [TS]

01:20:56   they're trying to say is look if if [TS]

01:21:00   you're going to listen to me when I say [TS]

01:21:02   use standard controls what you hear is [TS]

01:21:03   always use standard controls that means [TS]

01:21:04   you realize you do not have the ability [TS]

01:21:06   to make good looking controls and if you [TS]

01:21:08   do have the ability to make good looking [TS]

01:21:09   custom controls I know you're going to [TS]

01:21:10   ignore me anyway so the message that [TS]

01:21:11   they have to say is use standard [TS]

01:21:13   controls because the subtext is trust me [TS]

01:21:17   you cannot make apps as awesome as we as [TS]

01:21:19   we make them you are not an artist your [TS]

01:21:21   developer do not attempt what we are [TS]

01:21:24   doing here we have an entire staff of [TS]

01:21:26   people dedicated to doing this stuff if [TS]

01:21:28   you try to do it you will fail use [TS]

01:21:30   standard controls and the people who [TS]

01:21:31   won't fail who really do have artists on [TS]

01:21:33   staff aren't offended by this message [TS]

01:21:35   they understand who Apple is talking to [TS]

01:21:38   when they say that they don't go back [TS]

01:21:39   and say well I was going to make an [TS]

01:21:40   awesome looking you know delicious [TS]

01:21:42   library interface with with bookshelves [TS]

01:21:44   and stuff but they told me not to no [TS]

01:21:45   they're going to make it with whether [TS]

01:21:47   you tell them not to or not or not uh [TS]

01:21:49   you know and the people with the skill [TS]

01:21:51   to do it do it and they come out head [TS]

01:21:53   and shoulders above everybody else and I [TS]

01:21:54   think this is the way Apple wants it in [TS]

01:21:55   the way Apple has always wanted they're [TS]

01:21:57   not going to tried you for making custom [TS]

01:21:59   controls like they give you Apple Design [TS]

01:22:00   Awards I think a lot of these [TS]

01:22:01   applications that want Apple Design [TS]

01:22:02   Awards these are applications that [TS]

01:22:04   violate the hIgG ten ways to Sunday but [TS]

01:22:06   if you if you can pull it off if you can [TS]

01:22:08   make your app look awesome [TS]

01:22:09   Apple says great thumbs up here's an [TS]

01:22:10   award we're giving you an award for [TS]

01:22:12   violating our guidelines right they very [TS]

01:22:14   rarely do they give you an award for [TS]

01:22:15   making an application that exactly [TS]

01:22:17   complies with [TS]

01:22:17   and interface guidelines they want you [TS]

01:22:19   to go above and beyond what they don't [TS]

01:22:20   want you to do is try to go above and [TS]

01:22:22   beyond when you don't have the skills to [TS]

01:22:23   do it so that's why their message is [TS]

01:22:25   always no custom controls do not use [TS]

01:22:27   custom controls at a really really good [TS]

01:22:28   reason trust us you'll make more work [TS]

01:22:30   for yourself you make your app uglier [TS]

01:22:32   uglier when we make a new version of the [TS]

01:22:34   operating system your custom controls [TS]

01:22:35   are going to break [TS]

01:22:36   you're not going to inherit new [TS]

01:22:37   behaviors it's going to be tons of work [TS]

01:22:39   for you to keep your app updated and we [TS]

01:22:40   don't like that so use custom controls [TS]

01:22:42   and wink-wink nudge-nudge the you guys [TS]

01:22:44   out there who have SuperDuper skills we [TS]

01:22:47   know what you're going to do what you do [TS]

01:22:48   anyway and we'll give you an award for [TS]

01:22:50   it later okay I'll have to say on that's [TS]

01:22:56   it just that yeah just that okay good [TS]

01:23:05   what do we skip over we skipped over the [TS]

01:23:06   the App Store rejection I'll save that [TS]

01:23:08   for later [TS]

01:23:09   yeah you gotta say where email contacts [TS]

01:23:11   yeah we're done yeah we're done this a [TS]

01:23:14   good week this is a good week I let [TS]

01:23:15   people love it when you go on a rant [TS]

01:23:17   like that love it I do too [TS]

01:23:20   how many those I have left in me were [TS]

01:23:22   running out of topics on the restaurant [TS]

01:23:23   I'm gonna start adding topics when you [TS]

01:23:25   run out yeah and we can always talk [TS]

01:23:27   about movies I don't know how people [TS]

01:23:28   feel about that no well I let's say [TS]

01:23:30   how's it for feedback but well here's [TS]

01:23:32   what we'll do we will end a show here [TS]

01:23:35   and then we'll keep talking and we'll [TS]

01:23:36   make an after dark out of it so people [TS]

01:23:38   who are super fans want to hear this [TS]

01:23:40   next part of the conversation they can [TS]

01:23:42   go to five by five TV slash after dark [TS]

01:23:45   where they get all the special [TS]

01:23:47   behind-the-scenes stuff but that's it so [TS]

01:23:50   listen thanks to FreshBooks comm please [TS]

01:23:51   go check these guys out there I'm so [TS]

01:23:54   excited cuz it's changed my life and [TS]

01:23:56   also check out MailChimp com they have a [TS]

01:23:59   great service even if you don't make iOS [TS]

01:24:01   apps but if you do go to MailChimp comm [TS]

01:24:03   slash chimp kit and John siracusa can be [TS]

01:24:07   followed [TS]

01:24:08   on twitter at siracusa there's no Z in [TS]

01:24:12   Syracuse and that's him on Twitter I'm [TS]

01:24:14   Dan Benjamin on Twitter thanks for [TS]

01:24:16   tuning in thanks for being a part of the [TS]

01:24:18   show we'll be back next week [TS]

01:24:20   [Music] [TS]

01:24:32   you [TS]