Hypercritical

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► the name of this show is hypercritical [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► it's a weekly talkshow ruminating on [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► exactly what is wrong in the world of [TS]

00:00:08 ◼   ► Apple and related technologies and [TS]

00:00:10 ◼   ► businesses john siracusa and i i'm dan [TS]

00:00:13 ◼   ► benjamin we'll talk about how things go [TS]

00:00:17 ◼   ► well and sometimes don't go so well for [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► companies like Apple right as we talked [TS]

00:00:21 ◼   ► about here it's not just us [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► yeah and the fact is John nothing is so [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► perfect that you can't complain about it [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► that's what we say that's true and we [TS]

00:00:30 ◼   ► would like to thank the Intuit small [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► business blog and their mobile app as [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► well as campaign monitors world view for [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► making the show possible will tell you [TS]

00:00:39 ◼   ► more about those as the show progresses [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► so what are we complaining about today [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► first day of you right you get a lot of [TS]

00:00:45 ◼   ► you you know the whole show is a few not [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► too much today I turned a lot because I [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► know we have a lot of stuff to get do I [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► mean you're trying to keep the show [TS]

00:00:52 ◼   ► short now right got had to had some [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► requests that the show be Whedon that [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► not not cutting it short that's not the [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► right thing but just make keeping track [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► of time a person who asked that didn't [TS]

00:01:04 ◼   ► even mention my show so he probably [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► doesn't even listen I don't think he's [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► aware of your show he probably looked at [TS]

00:01:09 ◼   ► the runtime of it and said I can't [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► listen it might have been short not that [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► long not doing to our things I can use [TS]

00:01:15 ◼   ► bond tacked on to the end or anything [TS]

00:01:16 ◼   ► yeah I think you got of all the shows I [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► think you are probably the most time [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► sensitive there you go so I feel no [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► compunction to try to cut it short all [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► right don't cut it normal any shorter [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► that I normally do don't do anything [TS]

00:01:29 ◼   ► else don't don't change a thing okay so [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► follow up time so we missed last week [TS]

00:01:35 ◼   ► because I was on vacation you were on [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► vacation we tried to schedule it before [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► you had you had told me six or seven [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► weeks earlier that you were going to be [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► on vacation I put it on the calendar and [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► then I didn't I didn't remember or [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► something so it's it was not your fault [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► that we didn't have a show it's probably [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► mine but but the fact was you were not [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► available at the regular time and I [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► didn't realize that we had changed it so [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► anyway so I'm going back to shows for [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► some follow up stuff are two weeks but [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► it's just one show so last time what [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► we're talking about we're talking about [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► objective-c and stuff like that and [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► high-level language is low-level [TS]

00:02:12 ◼   ► languages yeah [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► I thought it was a shame that some of [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► that stuff there was at least two or [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► three good points that bled over into [TS]

00:02:18 ◼   ► the after dark so I put in the show [TS]

00:02:20 ◼   ► notes like this week the link to the [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► after dark most of which is just typical [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► after dark stuff but there are one or [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► two good points in there about the [TS]

00:02:28 ◼   ► objective-c stuff that I wish I had [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► gotten into the regular show huh [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► mostly having to do with how the people [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► at Apple how the employees at Apple are [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► probably not properly motivated to [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► resolve the situation talked about in [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► the previous show so I want to go into a [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► now for time purposes but if you want a [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► little bit more on that topic I suggest [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► checking out the after dark which is [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► that that's super hidden link but if you [TS]

00:02:50 ◼   ► go to the show notes for the show you [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► will find the link to it and I would [TS]

00:02:53 ◼   ► also suggest subscribing to that because [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► it's usually pretty funny it's not just [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► all hypercritical after dark it's all [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► sorts of shows a lot of cursing [TS]

00:03:01 ◼   ► everybody who asks for cursing and [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► doesn't understand why we edit out the [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► profanity no holds barred there it's [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► marked as explicit it's not part of the [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► master feed it's like a little Easter [TS]

00:03:13 ◼   ► egg you gotta go find it it'll find it [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► so it's interesting that when I did the [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► original series on the the Copeland 2010 [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► stuff a whole bunch of articles like [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► many years ago and I got a lot of [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► responses eventually asking about Mac [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► Ruby mm-hmm and which I I should also [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► mention I erroneously referred to as [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► JRuby I said I knew what you meant you [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► knew what I meant and you were too [TS]

00:03:40 ◼   ► polite to correct me I clearly know the [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► difference I've used both I meant Mac [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► Ruby thanks for the thousands of emails [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► and Twitter comments about that I do [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► know the difference and thank you for [TS]

00:03:51 ◼   ► reminding me yeah so the Mac group [TS]

00:03:55 ◼   ► people emailed a lot this was many years [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► ago back when Mac Ruby was younger and [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► their email enthusiasm kind of tapered [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► off over time but then when I brought it [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► up on the show they came back and they [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► said hey what about Mac Ruby partly my [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► fault for forgetting to talk about Mac [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► Ruby because it is definitely we're [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► talking about a well a show I talked [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► about how bridges stink on you have a [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► bridge to an API that's written for one [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► language where you get to write to it in [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► another language and bridge connects the [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► two things together [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► and I said I described lots of things [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► that are bad about bridges and how you [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► don't get to use the the cool features [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► of the high-level language that you want [TS]

00:04:34 ◼   ► to use because you're too busy doing [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► things in terms of the lower-level [TS]

00:04:36 ◼   ► language right so the nigra people then [TS]

00:04:39 ◼   ► as now bring up the points that a lot of [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► things I was asking for Mac would be [TS]

00:04:43 ◼   ► deliver so there's links in the show [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► notes to Mac repeat you should check it [TS]

00:04:46 ◼   ► out but just some examples like you [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► don't have to deal with you know making [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► NS strings or whatever when you do in [TS]

00:04:53 ◼   ► cocoa programming and Mac Ruby because [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► the the bridge makes ruby strings into [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► bridged over to NS mutable strings and [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► the Ruby hashes are really NS mutable [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► dictionaries under the covers and the [TS]

00:05:04 ◼   ► Ruby objects are really Objective C [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► objects so you're not just using like [TS]

00:05:09 ◼   ► the skin of the language to call api's [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► in some other language they've taken a [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► lot of the native data structures and [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► features and interesting tidbits in Ruby [TS]

00:05:20 ◼   ► and found in Objective C equivalent and [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► mapped it to that hmm now and also this [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► is the other thing people like to bring [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► up is hey this is an Apple project like [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► Apple developers are working on it it's [TS]

00:05:36 ◼   ► the people you know it's not just some [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► random third party thing it's actually [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► under the auspices of Apple in some [TS]

00:05:41 ◼   ► fashion a lot of Apple's open-source [TS]

00:05:43 ◼   ► stuff it's hard to tell what is you know [TS]

00:05:47 ◼   ► just a project with some people at Apple [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► wanted to do and it bosses let them do [TS]

00:05:49 ◼   ► versus what is a strategic initiative [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► that's poor important for the entire [TS]

00:05:53 ◼   ► company and often a project will start [TS]

00:05:55 ◼   ► in one way and transition to the other [TS]

00:05:58 ◼   ► thing like LLVM probably started life as [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► let's just you know hire this guy and [TS]

00:06:03 ◼   ► check out this type of thing and then [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► there was a you know an effort to [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► convince the powers-that-be and [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► eventually the entire company that hey [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► we're going to transition our entire [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► compiler strategy to this new thing and [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► here's how we're going to do it and lo [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► and behold here we are today and we're [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► almost completely transitioned so Mac [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► Ruby could be like that someday but the [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► what I said about Mac Ruby many years [TS]

00:06:22 ◼   ► ago still holds today and that I still [TS]

00:06:25 ◼   ► don't think a bridge is the is the right [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► answer [TS]

00:06:28 ◼   ► cocoa is still designed for objective-c [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► and even if you're mapping you know your [TS]

00:06:32 ◼   ► types from the higher-level language to [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► low-level one you're still dealing with [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► you know an disputable strings under the [TS]

00:06:38 ◼   ► covers and [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► yeah no it's the API is made it's not a [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► ruby API if you look at the API you [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► would say well that reminds me of you [TS]

00:06:45 ◼   ► know Rails or some other API that's [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► idiomatic at like like the bills for the [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► Ruby language you look at it and say [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► well that that sure looks a lot like [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► objective-c to me in this all sorts of [TS]

00:06:57 ◼   ► api's but there's no reasonable way to [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► bridge you just have to call these [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► methods and with these name parameters [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► that look like a projective seeing like [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► man why do we need all this parameters [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► why am i passing in a value that's going [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► to be a read/write attribute that's [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► going to have the error written into it [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► and all sorts of stuff like that it's [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► sort of not the Ruby way but you still [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► have to write to those languages there's [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► the two layers of debugging problem or [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► anytime you have sort of a bridge [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► language you would like to debug it the [TS]

00:07:21 ◼   ► Ruby level but the API and you're [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► executing code is executing at the [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► objective-c level and so if you're using [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► gdb or LDB or something you're not [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► debugging Ruby you're debugging lower [TS]

00:07:32 ◼   ► level than that so then they have to [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► write a higher level of debugger but [TS]

00:07:36 ◼   ► sometimes you might want to look at the [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► lower level stuff so you have two layers [TS]

00:07:38 ◼   ► of debuggers to deal with and if your [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► bugs in the bridge that's like the worst [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► possible situation when there are bugs [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► in the bridge itself and you're trying [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► to debug with the problem is and there's [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► the fact that to write a reasonable [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► cocoa program you're not just writing to [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► cocoa you're also doing your core [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► graphics and core foundation and other [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► API is to really are lower level and you [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► can bridge them too but it's even bigger [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► mismatch between what Ruby expects and [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► what these you know native C API is like [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► sounding Objective C it's just plain C [TS]

00:08:08 ◼   ► and if you try to keep that paper over [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► that then the developers feel like [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► they're being kept away from the power [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► tools like oh I really want to use core [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► graphics to do some drawings here but [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► the Ruby language makes it discourages [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► me from reaching down to do that or [TS]

00:08:24 ◼   ► makes it more difficult and more [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► cumbersome or doesn't feel like I'm I'm [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► you know doing things the right way and [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► there's also the the non-native problem [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► you're like well I'm going to write a [TS]

00:08:33 ◼   ► cocoa application well are you going to [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► use like the native language for writing [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► cocoa applications Objective C or you [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► can use a bridge language because you [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► need a crutch sure because you're a [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► whimper because but you know it's at [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► this macho this macho thing where there [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► would be is divided between the [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► old-school people like I'm writing a [TS]

00:08:49 ◼   ► real native cocoa application and you're [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► not because you're using this other [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► thing [TS]

00:08:53 ◼   ► and with all that said it's like would [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► experienced objective-c developers see [TS]

00:08:59 ◼   ► enough reason to switch like this [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► obviously if you're the best objective-c [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► programs today are comfortable with [TS]

00:09:04 ◼   ► Objective C so there has to be something [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► pretty significant to make them switch [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► you have that a carrot as well as a [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► stick now Apple could just force [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► everyone to switch and so you know Mac [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► Ruby is going to be the thing it's our [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► new high-level language is slowly going [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► to transition away from you know C based [TS]

00:09:17 ◼   ► languages and and this is the path and [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► you're gonna have to go to it that's the [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► stick version but the carrot has to be [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► hey awesome Objective C developers who [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► have made our platform what it is here's [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► the good things that await you if you [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► stop writing your your code in this [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► start writing it in that I think that's [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► a tough sell [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► because I mean it's hard enough for [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► Apple to even get the real old-school [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► Objective C guys to use the dot syntax [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► for properties let alone to switch to [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► like a high-level language into mints [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► then there's you know there's a good [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► reason to do that so I have to come down [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► a similar position as I did many years [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► ago on Mac Ruby is that I don't think [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► bridges are the answer and I don't think [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► my Mac Ruby is the answer certainly it's [TS]

00:09:56 ◼   ► the best bridge I've seen and it has the [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► most promise and if Apple wanted to make [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► it work they could but I don't think [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► it's the best solution I think it's kind [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► of like a half measure and maybe that's [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► something in favor of it in that if [TS]

00:10:07 ◼   ► you're going to transition to something [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► don't make this big giant leap I think I [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► come down the other side I say that the [TS]

00:10:13 ◼   ► big giant leap is the only way you're [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► going to the only way you're gonna have [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► a carrot big enough to get people to [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► come over you know it's it to say this [TS]

00:10:21 ◼   ► is totally different than what you [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► expected it's awesome in ways that you [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► haven't even imagined and it's so unlike [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► what you've done before that it you [TS]

00:10:28 ◼   ► won't end up making unfavorable [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► comparisons to the objective-c that [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► you're used to and then it'll be a [TS]

00:10:33 ◼   ► gradual transition to whatever this [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► thing is but as I said in the previous [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► show I have no idea what that thing is [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► so it's easy for me to say I'll just [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► make it awesome and really radically [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► different than what's out there now and [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► everyone want to switch to it [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► so that's Mac Ruby I I think it's it's a [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► plausible contender Apple can make it [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► work but that I so far don't see [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► anything that makes me think Apple has [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► blessed that as the next generation I [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► think it's definitely in the interesting [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► experiment phase and I haven't seen any [TS]

00:11:02 ◼   ► moves from Apple that make me think [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► otherwise what did you think about if if [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► you remember [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► when I guess I don't say when Mac os10 [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► was gaining prominence as a really cool [TS]

00:11:12 ◼   ► place to build apps but it was at that [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► turning point when things were were [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► really Apple was really really pushing [TS]

00:11:19 ◼   ► to try and get as many people on board [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► with developing Mac OS 10 applications [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► in any capacity and if you remember and [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► we talked about this a little bit you've [TS]

00:11:27 ◼   ► touched on it again there was the the [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► Java you could use jaw you could write [TS]

00:11:31 ◼   ► absent Java right there inside of the [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► you know the SDK you could just write in [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► Java and they never really they made a [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► big deal out of the fact that they had [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► that and that you could do that but they [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► never really really got in there and [TS]

00:11:48 ◼   ► supported it they never really had fully [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► fluid you know fleshed out documentation [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► for it and then it they just kind of [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► swept it under the rug and forgot about [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:11:56 ◼   ► and the people who were you know like [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► the big nerd ranch guys you know and [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► those books always said look if you're [TS]

00:12:03 ◼   ► going to build apps in Mac OS 10 just [TS]

00:12:05 ◼   ► bite the bullet learn objective-c don't [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► do it in Java it's not as good and some [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► of the first versions of the encoder [TS]

00:12:12 ◼   ► which is one of the few cocoa apps or I [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► should say Mac OS 10 apps that I built [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► we actually had some parts of it that [TS]

00:12:18 ◼   ► were in Java and it was true it just [TS]

00:12:21 ◼   ► made more sense to just do in an [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► objective-c [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► don't you need apples involvement to [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► rienne commitment to really make that [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► successful to know that you're investing [TS]

00:12:32 ◼   ► in something that's that's long-term as [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► a developer at that time I wasn't coming [TS]

00:12:37 ◼   ► from a position of strength with respect [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► to languages they were like you know [TS]

00:12:42 ◼   ► they had the capability to have a Java [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► bridge Java was really popular back then [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► and they were trying to figure out how [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► do we get developers and if the Java was [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► going to be the way that they did it [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► someone an apple thought that that would [TS]

00:12:54 ◼   ► be a good idea and that the powers to be [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► said okay fine you know let's give that [TS]

00:12:58 ◼   ► a try we're going to do the carbon thing [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► we're going to do cocoa right and you [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► want you think you can do a job a bridge [TS]

00:13:03 ◼   ► we'll try that too just because they [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► were hedging their bets they want to say [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► you know we got to do everything we can [TS]

00:13:08 ◼   ► to get people to develop this I don't [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► think they knew what the result would be [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► because they were coming from a ton of [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► developers who wrote Mac toolbox [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► applications right on power plant or [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► whatever so they had to have Carbon for [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► them like they [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► learn that lesson so the Apple guys were [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► saying it you know koko necks may be [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► great but there's not that many necks [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► developers in the world and we're not [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► sure that we can convince our huge [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► stable of experienced Mac developers to [TS]

00:13:32 ◼   ► switch to this thing that you love so [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► much [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► so that was one bet and then someone [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► else is saying well job is really [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► popular and there's tons of java [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► programmers in the world so let's try [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► that let's see if we can get you know a [TS]

00:13:42 ◼   ► you know hey you can write Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► applications in Java and they'll be [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► awesome so give that a try and you [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► objective-c guys you're next people [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► we're going to make them use your API [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► but we're just going to use a different [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► language that I want to learn Objective [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► C so they had all these irons in the [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► fire the fact that the Objective C [TS]

00:13:58 ◼   ► proponents were inside the company and [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► there were a lot of them and they slowly [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► came to dominance probably helped but it [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► also helps that you know people did the [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► math may said well I might as well just [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► learn this objective-c thing it's not [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► two differents got some weird square [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► brackets but it's mostly just C and most [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► of them were more inclined to go from C [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► C++ to Objective C than to go from C C++ [TS]

00:14:18 ◼   ► to Java and the final thing is the Java [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► thing was a bridge and bridges stink it [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► gets back to my whole you know bridge [TS]

00:14:25 ◼   ► thing they don't want to do it's not [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► like the real API it's not the real [TS]

00:14:30 ◼   ► language do is it was a bridge and you [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► know like you said when you look at the [TS]

00:14:33 ◼   ► docs Doc's talked about Objective C [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► because they were pre-existing things [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► they didn't talk about Joplin it was [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► just a big mess so the Java bridge fell [TS]

00:14:40 ◼   ► by the wayside had to be supported for [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► many many years just out of respect for [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► the people who did sort of put some time [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► into it but eventually they dropped it [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► and you know carbon has gone by the [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► wayside too like we went through the [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► transition the bottom line is that they [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► moved everybody into a cocoa and [TS]

00:14:54 ◼   ► objective-c they found their winner in [TS]

00:14:56 ◼   ► that in that competition but it is [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► interesting that they had like they had [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► basically a memory manage language it [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► just didn't work out for reasons not [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► really related language mostly related [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► to the fact that it's a bridge and [TS]

00:15:06 ◼   ► because they were using that language to [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► write to an API that was made for [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► Objective C I'm with you all right I've [TS]

00:15:16 ◼   ► got one more so would you would you then [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► go so far as to say John that the the [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► concept of of a bridge is a bad concept [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► and Java is proof of that or you [TS]

00:15:28 ◼   ► wouldn't you go that far [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► I think the concept I think bridges are [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► bad in general [TS]

00:15:32 ◼   ► doesn't mean you can't make it work if [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► they like I said if they really wanted [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► to and they use Mac Ruby as like their [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► transition strategy and they slowly by [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► steps chant you know develop the API [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► until eventually you know many many [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► years down live people people are [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► literally writing Java applications and [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► it's no longer bridge like they [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► transitioned away from all the memory [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► dangerous uses and stuff through a [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► series of deprecations it could be done [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► but that doesn't mean bridges aren't bad [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► that just means that they may have [TS]

00:15:58 ◼   ► advantages in terms of getting you from [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► point A to point B through a series of [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► steps but the I do not think they're [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► they're good there are things hard about [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► clean breaks as well you could kind of [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► say that Objective C is not is not a [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► bridge from C C++ but it was a nice [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► transition because they share the same [TS]

00:16:17 ◼   ► base language I don't know there's ever [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► been a successful bridge stringent but I [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► feel like it could be done but now I'm [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► not I'm not a fan of bridges as we'll [TS]

00:16:26 ◼   ► get to more when we get to the main [TS]

00:16:27 ◼   ► topic imma do a quick aside here if you [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► think we have time yeah I'm Ireland [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► stuff from back to work last week sure [TS]

00:16:34 ◼   ► this is a strange aside in the middle of [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► show by programming languages but I want [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► to be timely because if I keep it around [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► for weeks it will make any sense so last [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► week [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► Rutland man who does the show back to [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► work with you had a blog post about his [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► ongoing struggles for over the book [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► project he's working on and for people [TS]

00:16:54 ◼   ► who don't know Merlin man is a [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► Productivity expert if you want to put [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► that in quotes I'm sure he would hate [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► that description but I don't know how [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► else to encapsulate what he does but he [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► he writes and gives talks about [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► productivity and related topics and last [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► week he did this blog post that [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► explained the problems he was having [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► getting his current work project done to [TS]

00:17:14 ◼   ► do a book and you needed to show about [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► it and then after dark as well which are [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► in the show notes and he had the the [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► preview page open for his show where you [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► get the people listeners get to put [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► comments before the show airs and then [TS]

00:17:26 ◼   ► you talked about the comments on the air [TS]

00:17:28 ◼   ► and a couple of comments I didn't write [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► any comments but I went through the [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► comments before the show and I did click [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► that little like button yeah on some of [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► the ones that I thought were good [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► mystery most of the ones most of the [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► ones I liked or ones that were [TS]

00:17:41 ◼   ► challenging questions where they would [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► say the gist that most of them was hey [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► Merlin man your [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► you're this productivity expert but here [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► you are not able to get this book done [TS]

00:17:50 ◼   ► that's you know you're super late on and [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► you kind of seem like you're bailing out [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► on it how are we supposed to trust [TS]

00:17:56 ◼   ► anything you say about productivity when [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► in your real life you can't obviously [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► can't be productive and there were [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► several people asking that that's like [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► the obvious question about this whole [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► thing and you talked about it a lot on [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► the show and the reason I click those [TS]

00:18:10 ◼   ► like buttons was not that I agreed with [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► the people who were saying it but it but [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► that I wanted him to confront those [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► points head-on you know because that's [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► that's the the question that jumps right [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► out at you immediately about this whole [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► thing and and he did that for the most [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► part he gave you no answer the questions [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► head-on and gave answers that he thought [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► people wanted to hear you know he wasn't [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► shying away from it if anything he was [TS]

00:18:33 ◼   ► trying to stay on topic [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► I wouldn't he wouldn't let you move on [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► to the next questions he want to feel [TS]

00:18:39 ◼   ► like he addressed it entirely so that [TS]

00:18:41 ◼   ► was good but the other reason I picked [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► those those questions is that I felt [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► like I knew what the answer was going to [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► be like I wanted to hear him say you [TS]

00:18:48 ◼   ► know I felt like if someone had told me [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► defend Merlyn man I would have a [TS]

00:18:52 ◼   ► vigorous defense for his his actions and [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► and what he'd done with the book and [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► everything I don't want to hear him say [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► that too right he got out most of the [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► points but one of them that he missed [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► that I wanted to throw out there [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► here's that but I would have sent if I [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► was in his shoes and someone said the [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► same thing to me here's what I would [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► have said about that ah you know so I [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► would have said that yeah the [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► expectation is that if you some guy [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► writing a book about productivity is [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► going to be written by a Productivity [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► expert that's going to be like somebody [TS]

00:19:18 ◼   ► who's really good at being productive [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► right and that's what all those [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► questions were based on because people [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► feel cheated and duped or whatever when [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► they see the problems that he's having [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► in real life but what I would say to [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► that is that in reality a person writing [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► a book about productivity is most likely [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► someone who struggle with productivity [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► himself and not just someone who [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► struggle because lots of people struggle [TS]

00:19:38 ◼   ► with productivity if you're writing a [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► book about productivity you're probably [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► someone who struggle with productivity [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► and also someone's who's smart enough [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► and self-aware enough to explore while [TS]

00:19:46 ◼   ► you're struggling with it and come up [TS]

00:19:48 ◼   ► with answers right that's the [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► combination you need you need someone [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► who having a problem with it and someone [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► who's really smart [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► who's going to think about why am I [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► having a problem is what's the deal here [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► if you've never had a problem with [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► productivity and you're super productive [TS]

00:19:59 ◼   ► and everything you will [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► probably not have much deep insight into [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► what helps make people productive [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► because it would just be like I don't [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► know I just sit down I do work like [TS]

00:20:06 ◼   ► you're not gonna write a book about [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► Prague - because you have no idea how it [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► works you've never even given it any [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► thought right it's like you had an [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► interview with a Horace they do on the [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► pipeline recently yeah and when he said [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► was like basically mistakes or how we [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► learn which is topic bit up we've talked [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► about on the show before and so what [TS]

00:20:22 ◼   ► Merlin's [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► experience do basic science Merlin is [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► still making mistakes which means that [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► Merlin is still learning like if you [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► think you know everything about [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► productivity and you're just gonna make [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► pronouncements from the mountaintop you [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► basically stopped learning like you [TS]

00:20:35 ◼   ► don't want to read that guy's book it's [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► gonna be like I know everything there is [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► to know about productivity I'm going to [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► lay it out for you and here it is right [TS]

00:20:40 ◼   ► because you think you've got it figured [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► all all figured out right it's kind of [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► similar to the stereotype you hear that [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► like you know psychology majors in [TS]

00:20:48 ◼   ► school are the people most likely to [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► have psychological problems that that's [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► just the way the world works if you're [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► interested in the topic or have any [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► insight into topics probably something [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► you've dealt with yourself and you know [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► struggle with and it's not just a [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► struggling I guess that you have to be [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► someone who has these problems and also [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► someone who's super smart and self-aware [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► that's how all you know great books and [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► investigations into anything that has [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► anything to do with like you know [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► personality wise or psychological things [TS]

00:21:13 ◼   ► or any sort of you know human type of [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► endeavor not just like writing about [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► math or something right right the people [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► who have who have struggled with it and [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► thought about it and come up with [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► answers and who continue to do so who [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► have the most insights and I wish she'd [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► made that point in the showing since he [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► didn't I'm making that point in the show [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► so for all the people who are thinking [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► they don't want to read a Productivity [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► book by someone who can't finish a book [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► that's exactly the one you do want to [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► read because when it's done you will see [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► that it has the you know the scars of [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► experience have been built into that [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► book that's a great point I mean I in a [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► way you almost feel like a book like [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► this I don't know maybe maybe this [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► sounds weird but you almost want it to [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► be hard you know what I'm saying [TS]

00:21:58 ◼   ► yeah I mean this is like I said if it's [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► easy if it's some dude who's like hasn't [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► thought about productivity in ten years [TS]

00:22:04 ◼   ► because he's been given the same talk at [TS]

00:22:06 ◼   ► companies for ten years and he thought [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► he figured it out ten years ago and he [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► wrote in a little formula and he got a [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► best-selling book and hasn't given a day [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► of thought since then [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► that's not useful you know you have to [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► still be doing it you have to still be [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► thinking about it to you know to have [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► the insights to share with people [TS]

00:22:20 ◼   ► because these these things change you [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► know the environment changes technology [TS]

00:22:24 ◼   ► changes all of our lives change you know [TS]

00:22:26 ◼   ► you come to different points in your [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► life you can you know relate to things [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► differently when you're you know older [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► and a father than when you're younger [TS]

00:22:31 ◼   ► and stuff you have to always keep [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► learning it always keep making mistakes [TS]

00:22:38 ◼   ► let's make mistakes they'll be the name [TS]

00:22:40 ◼   ► for a show yeah [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► if only somebody would do that yeah all [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► right are you ready for main topic yeah [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► - thirty minutes yeah this is about what [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► we do well let's do our first well thank [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► our first sponsor it's the into its [TS]

00:22:54 ◼   ► small business blog if you're in a small [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► or medium size business not a large one [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► it's probably not for you because they [TS]

00:22:59 ◼   ► talk about things like starting a [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► business running a business social media [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► integrating it with marketing and that [TS]

00:23:06 ◼   ► kind of thing so it really does appealed [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► I think the people who run the small in [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► the medium-sized businesses well you can [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► go there you can go to blog intuit calm [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► you can read articles about this they do [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► interviews with you know up-and-coming [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► business leaders they even interviewed [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► me John did you read that one I don't [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► think I did they interviewed me there [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► and they do that they entered they do [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► interviews and now they've gone mobile [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► so there is an Intuit small business [TS]

00:23:31 ◼   ► blog iOS app which is very handy of [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► course it works for your iPhone your [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► iPod Touch if you're like John siracusa [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► it works for an iPad and you can read [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► the blog articles you can do full-text [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► searches you could do tons of stuff and [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► it's a brand new app they really want [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► you to go out there and kick the tires [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► on this so you can download that just by [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► searching for Intuit blog in the iTunes [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► App Store or by going to blogged on [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► Intuit calm it's well worth your time to [TS]

00:23:56 ◼   ► check this out a lot of really valuable [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► articles and they have told me that they [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► are coming in with an Android version of [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► the app as well so go check that out [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► thanks to them very much for making this [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► show possible now on to the topic the [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► real main topic the Royal Wedding is [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► that's not there is that thrill I think [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► that'd be great thanks to Robert Hoglund [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► in the chat room for that idea no that [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► is not the main topic I was I was going [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► to say I'm probably pretty well prepared [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► for that I was what I did watch some of [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► it [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► sorry to disappoint you guys that have [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► such a dim awareness that this thing is [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► even taking place yeah but I would have [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► nothing to say about it believe it or [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► not today believe it or not it's sort of [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► a continuation of the the Copeland 2010 [TS]

00:24:41 ◼   ► show because at the end of that show we [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► started to talk a little bit about [TS]

00:24:44 ◼   ► programming languages and I thought that [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► was a topic that was worth the whole [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► show on its own [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► some people complain last time that [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► talking about programming stuff was too [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► esoteric and like not in character for [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► the show yeah but just just so happens [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► that we picked less techy topics to [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► begin with it's definitely in character [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► for me it is you're you are a programmer [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► that's what he does what I do for a [TS]

00:25:07 ◼   ► living so I don't I don't feel like it's [TS]

00:25:08 ◼   ► out of character so that this is gonna [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► be part of the things that we talk about [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► on the show is programming language type [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► stuffing if you're not a developer and [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► don't care about programming languages [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► then maybe you can skip this week maybe [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► I still think it would be interesting [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► yeah but this is definitely what I'm [TS]

00:25:22 ◼   ► saying is this is definitely not out of [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► character for this for the show I don't [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► think alright I don't I don't think so [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► not at all as I said in the past show [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► this is a topic that I wanted to write [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► about for a long time but I could just [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► never get to it mostly because it is [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► kind of out of character for what I tend [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► to write on ARS technica and elsewhere [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► as I don't tend to write about [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► programming language that's more of a [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► thing you expect to see on either a [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► personal developer blog which I don't [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► really have one of or a developer [TS]

00:25:49 ◼   ► oriented site which are static and [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► Macworld and so on or not [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► so I don't get to write about it but I [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► would like to talk about it um so here [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► we go so in a past show talked a little [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► bit about how geeks tend to like a [TS]

00:26:02 ◼   ► meritocracy I think it was in the show [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► where I was talking about how they felt [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► it was unfair that Windows 1 the desktop [TS]

00:26:07 ◼   ► because it wasn't and undeserved victory [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► because Mac operating system was better [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► it was the show where we psychoanalyze [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► gruber I forgot what episode that was [TS]

00:26:16 ◼   ► but that tends to be the case the geeks [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► think that the technically superior [TS]

00:26:21 ◼   ► solution should win and and as we know [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► it often doesn't I know in programming [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► languages there are a weird case because [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► there's something that only geeks care [TS]

00:26:32 ◼   ► about but programming languages almost [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► never become popular based on their [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► merits because there are so many more [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► important things than that so it's kind [TS]

00:26:40 ◼   ► of a weird situation where [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► this thing that only geeks care about [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► it's never a meritocracy and that's why [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► it's a source of lots that's one of the [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► many reasons why it's a source of lots [TS]

00:26:49 ◼   ► of tension in the geek community these [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► arguments about which language is better [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► than another and so on and so forth so [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► here are some of the more important [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► things that can make a programming [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► language popular so when you have a you [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► know what platform is this language the [TS]

00:27:06 ◼   ► official language of that's a big thing [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► that can help programming language [TS]

00:27:10 ◼   ► obviously objective-c would probably be [TS]

00:27:12 ◼   ► nowhere if it wasn't the official [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► language of the Mac and iOS platforms [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► the only reason a lot of people have [TS]

00:27:18 ◼   ► especially but in iOS the only reason [TS]

00:27:20 ◼   ► anyone has learned objective-c is [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► because this wouldn't need to do if you [TS]

00:27:23 ◼   ► want to write an iPhone app can use this [TS]

00:27:28 ◼   ► language in more than one place is kind [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► of the opposite like if I learn this can [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► I only write for iOS or can I use it [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► someplace else and this is part of [TS]

00:27:35 ◼   ► what's made C and C++ ridiculously [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► popular in the old days but so you could [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► write C tons of places like it seemed [TS]

00:27:42 ◼   ► like it at one point every single [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► platform you see as it's you know native [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► systems programming language and C++ [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► differently and then later Java was like [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► oh you learned Java but you can use it [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► everywhere you can use it on all the web [TS]

00:27:51 ◼   ► development and server side code and [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► maybe client-side code to knows but you [TS]

00:27:57 ◼   ► weren't just learning a language for one [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► particular thing another thing can help [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► languages like can I create a new kind [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► of application with this language so if [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► I learn this language that I never [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► learned before can I write an [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► application that I can't write in any of [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► the languages that I know now or can't [TS]

00:28:14 ◼   ► write easily a good example is that like [TS]

00:28:16 ◼   ► CGI at the dawn of the web you could [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► write a CGI program and see and people [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► did but it was so clearly not not the [TS]

00:28:24 ◼   ► thing to do so that was a lot of what [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► gave pearls popularity and they're gonna [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► say like you know CGI web it's great but [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► seriously don't write a C program to [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► parse HTTP headers and pillow stuff [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► here's this other language and it does [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► that stuff much easier and look how [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► short this is I can give you a nice [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► little CGI in like a little page of code [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► and hey you don't need to compile it uh [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► and that was a new kind of application [TS]

00:28:44 ◼   ► that you couldn't write with you know a [TS]

00:28:46 ◼   ► compiled thing or C or C both of us or [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► was it was so cumbersome that you didn't [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► want to basically another thing that can [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► help languages it is [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► can I try this hot new thing if I learn [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► this language rails is a great example [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► of that rails it was hot and they're [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► like well I really want to try this [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► Rails thing like I know how to write web [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► apps I'm writing about for years but [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► this looks like a cool new way to write [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► web apps and I guess to try this rails [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► things I haven't learned Ruby well okay [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► I'll do that it was like you know call [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► it a fad but it's not that's kind of [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► route but you get the idea and the final [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► thing I have my list here is is this one [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► of only a few possible choices for doing [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► this thing [TS]

00:29:25 ◼   ► javascript is a good example of this if [TS]

00:29:27 ◼   ► you want to write client-side web you [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► know code for web applications [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► your choices are basically JavaScript [TS]

00:29:35 ◼   ► maybe Java for applets and maybe flash I [TS]

00:29:38 ◼   ► guess but flash requires plugins and [TS]

00:29:40 ◼   ► Java is this big bloated thing that [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► nobody really like that's why no those [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► took off so your choices are really [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► limited if you want to write client-side [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► web code you're basically be writing in [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► JavaScript write or use or using a [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► framework like CoffeeScript that turns [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► it into JavaScript for you we'll talk [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► about that okay so so the result is [TS]

00:29:58 ◼   ► since most programming languages are not [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► picked based on their merit so picked on [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► these other tons much more important [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► things the result of this is in my [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► opinion most programming languages stink [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► or in the best case they eventually [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► stink that's the best case the worst [TS]

00:30:12 ◼   ► that the normal case is that they stink [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► from day one but you have to use them [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► for one of those other reasons that's [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► much more important and which is fine [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► it's not saying you're miserable doing [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► it over but the bottom line is that the [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► language itself stinks and in the best [TS]

00:30:23 ◼   ► case the day you start using a language [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► it's actually awesome you really like it [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► but then ten years down the line [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► language advancement has moved on you're [TS]

00:30:31 ◼   ► stuck using someone for one of those [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► other reasons so that eventually this [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► language comes to stink relative to [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► everything else it's kind of like [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► programming language the lifetime of a [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► programming language gets tied to the [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► API or platform lifetime right so you [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► know the API or the platform will live [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► for just decades sometimes but during [TS]

00:30:52 ◼   ► that time the state of the art in [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► languages it just has that you know [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► advanced way past that and even just [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► during the first few years it you know [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► it doesn't ache long for people to see [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► what it is about the language they're [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► currently using it stinks when they look [TS]

00:31:04 ◼   ► off to the side to see you know wow look [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► at that cool thing they're doing over [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► there well I can't use that because [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► got a ride iOS applications that use [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► objective-c or well I can't use that [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► because I'm writing web applications and [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► I gotta use JavaScript and numerous [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► cases sometimes a language can suck for [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► years and years even before it becomes [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► popular so the javascript is a great [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► example this JavaScript you know was [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► introduced in that scape whatever was [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► 1.0 or ages ago javascript was [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► introduced and it just sat there sort of [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► unloved for years because I got a [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► JavaScript I guess you can do some stuff [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► to like you know validate forms or [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► something but whatever right and it [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► wasn't and it wasn't that great back [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► then and then years and years later you [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► know with better dom support and CSS and [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► faster CPUs and better browsers and [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► stuff suddenly javascript is hot it's [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► like well now hey you know we've got we [TS]

00:31:52 ◼   ► with all these advances in web engine [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► technology and better CPUs and you know [TS]

00:31:56 ◼   ► all these other things we can do with it [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► dynamic HTML whatever buzzword doing [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► bottom line is suddenly javascript [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► became interesting but it still sucks [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► this was still the same crappy language [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► it was 50 years ago not 50 seems like 50 [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► years ago Internet time is still the [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► same credi language but now suddenly [TS]

00:32:10 ◼   ► it's popular so it didn't even get a [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► chance to be it was never good right and [TS]

00:32:14 ◼   ► and then it sat there for years doing [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► nothing until people even noticed it uh [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► but now you know people need to get work [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► done like they need to you need to use [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► JavaScript so they want to transform the [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► language into something that sucks less [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► and this happened even before [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► CoffeeScript or to talk about in a [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► second this happened you know as soon as [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► people started having to use JavaScript [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► it's all right well I got to write [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► JavaScript and dhtml is cool and I can [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► do all these cool transformations and [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► all most dynamic stuff or whatever but [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► you know what I would like I would like [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► keep it work like the language that I'm [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► used to so I would like if it had a [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► class-based inheritance instead of [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► prototype based inheritance and I'd [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► really like a nice way to define classes [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► and methods and I really like to be able [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► to subclass stuff and I really like to [TS]

00:32:52 ◼   ► be able to define properties and do [TS]

00:32:54 ◼   ► things without polluting the global [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► namespace with variables and all these [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► all the tricks that would learn like so [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► that they very quickly started building [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► this other language on top of JavaScript [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► and they went by all sorts of different [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► names and different API s and everyone [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► who made any sort of library like use [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► the library validating form so we're [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► also going to define our own class an [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► object system and here's how you define [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► a class in our system and use that you [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► define an object and here's how you doin [TS]

00:33:13 ◼   ► heritance right and then you know seven [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► different people did that so if you're [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► using prototype they had one system and [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► you know something else but but the way [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► they did do was add the API [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► people actually wanted to use because [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► the Dom API the native Dom API who the [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► w3c to find that or whoever define that [TS]

00:33:27 ◼   ► it stinks it was just a huge verbose [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► thing that nobody ever wanted to type [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► and it was just you know inscrutable and [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► had no convenience functions and it was [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► just just bad so that you know people [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► were wrapping the Dom ten different ways [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► to Sunday you know like listen we know [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► you're never going to use the Dom API [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► but here's this nice little wrapper [TS]

00:33:44 ◼   ► function to give that a try and jQuery [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► is the big one they're like they did [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► their own objects just something they [TS]

00:33:50 ◼   ► did all solve the old stuff but in [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► service of saying don't write to the Dom [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► write to jQuery and we're going to [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► define a really convenient API that you [TS]

00:33:57 ◼   ► can use that it looks like magic and so [TS]

00:33:59 ◼   ► now we're at the point today where [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► people know jQuery but they don't know [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► JavaScript right the someone did a [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► presentation about that I think was like [TS]

00:34:05 ◼   ► a jQuery problem or something I googled [TS]

00:34:07 ◼   ► for it for a while and I couldn't find [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► it but it's basically that you're [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► raising your breed of programmers who [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► thinks that jQuery is what their [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► programming and have no idea this is [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► this language into their called [TS]

00:34:17 ◼   ► JavaScript that has its own rules and [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► works in its own way now that's like the [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► JavaScript is like the assembly code a [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► CoffeeScript is another example take me [TS]

00:34:25 ◼   ► to even farther and what's that other [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► one that the cappuccino guys do [TS]

00:34:27 ◼   ► objective J I think it's called where [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► they're saying look the language is so [TS]

00:34:32 ◼   ► irredeemably bad you're just gonna type [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► text right we're gonna parse with our [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► own little parser written in javascript [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► turn into JavaScript for you and then [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► execute that so that basically defining [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► an entirely different language not just [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► a new API not just a wrapper for other [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► things but an entirely new language so [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► bad is the underlying language is like [TS]

00:34:49 ◼   ► don't even type in that language type [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► essentially a big honking string and we [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► will we will take your big honkin string [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► and turn it into something all right and [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► that gets at all that talks about [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► bridges and everything like we know when [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► you're stepping through the debugger and [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► you know Firebug or whatever WebKit [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► JavaScript debugger that's a JavaScript [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► debugger that's not a coffee script [TS]

00:35:10 ◼   ► debugger it's not a jQuery de barro god [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► forbid you ever step into a jQuery [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► function you'll know there be dragons [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► you do not want to be into that code [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► right if you have some sort of problem [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► in the middle of jQuery you know even [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► when it's not minima minified or [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► anything like that they just highlight [TS]

00:35:23 ◼   ► the problems of bridges and stop and [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► CoffeeScript and objective J similar [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► type things like you know you're not [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► going to get Apple or Google or whoever [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► to build a coffee script debugger into [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► into their browser unless you really [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► take over [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► the world with your new language that [TS]

00:35:37 ◼   ► you made up that eventually compiles [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► into JavaScript [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► Google is even worse but they do Java [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► that compiles into JavaScript I don't I [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► mean think about how they do bug that [TS]

00:35:46 ◼   ► but that's that's Google's problem so [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► the moral of story is that every [TS]

00:35:54 ◼   ► existing popular language has something [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► terrible about it or many make things [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► terrible about it [TS]

00:35:59 ◼   ► and it's usually really easy for [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► developers to see what's wrong with this [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► language not not the API is not what you [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► can do with it you know people like [TS]

00:36:06 ◼   ► these things but just like the language [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► isolate the language itself and say is [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► there anything bad about the language [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► taken in isolation and there always is [TS]

00:36:15 ◼   ► and it seems like as these languages [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► have stagnated and been tied to these [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► platforms and api's for years and years [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► we've you know made little advances [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► along the side lines and everything and [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► you know academic circles research [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► circles but even just trying things out [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► for real with you know little niche [TS]

00:36:31 ◼   ► languages and stuff like that we sort of [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► collectively decided on what is good and [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► then when we collectively decide on what [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► is good we can look at the language and [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► say well this thing doesn't have this [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► good thing which we've all pretty much [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► agreed takes a long time to agree on [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► this takes you know sometimes years and [TS]

00:36:44 ◼   ► years forever to agree that something is [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► good but eventually most people agree so [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► I have a little list of things that I [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► think that collectively programmers have [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► agreed are good things plus or minus [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► applicability obviously everything I [TS]

00:36:56 ◼   ► list someone is going to say well if [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► you're writing a device driver all that [TS]

00:36:58 ◼   ► stinks yeah obviously you pick the [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► language appropriate for a context so [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► I'm speaking mostly of the highest of [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► the high levels because languages only [TS]

00:37:06 ◼   ► get higher level over time not lower [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► level so the lower level languages [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► retain their roles in the levels of [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► distraction where they work best but the [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► top of the stack the highest level [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► languages that people most commonly [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► write and just keep getting higher level [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► and that's the place where the actions [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► that's the place where the most language [TS]

00:37:21 ◼   ► advancement happens so some things we've [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► decided to good the Commuter decided [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► memory management is good because even [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► though you know at the lower levels yes [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► you do need to management you know [TS]

00:37:30 ◼   ► someone's got a managed memory manually [TS]

00:37:32 ◼   ► underneath there someone's got to do it [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► even if you're just writing the VM for [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► your JavaScript engine so I want us to [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► deal with it but if you're writing an [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► application you don't want to deal with [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► that so if you have some language that [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► doesn't have memory management it starts [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► to look a little bit creaky especially [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► if you're writing like an application [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► where it's like dude clicks the button [TS]

00:37:48 ◼   ► and then this [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► happens you know I don't have to manage [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► memory to connect the dude clicks the [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► button and then something happens thing [TS]

00:37:54 ◼   ► I'm not I'm not writing vice drivers I'm [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► not writing a VM for a language right [TS]

00:37:59 ◼   ► one of the deal Denari management native [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► strings pretty much everyone has agreed [TS]

00:38:02 ◼   ► that native strings are a good thing you [TS]

00:38:04 ◼   ► know we don't want to add strings to see [TS]

00:38:06 ◼   ► this is just a byte array and blah blah [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► native unicode strings at this point if [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► you don't iran who doesn't have native [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► you don't screen strings some poor [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► suckers got to make a library that does [TS]

00:38:14 ◼   ► and then it's just a big hairy mess and [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► you have two different competing [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► libraries and you get you know what were [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► they called in MFC the HIPAA yeah yeah [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► why character strings and all sorts of [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► you know it's just a big mess native [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► native unicode strings have to be in the [TS]

00:38:28 ◼   ► language because they're so darn useful [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► i think we that most people have agreed [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► at this point for high level languages [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► native regular expressions are a good [TS]

00:38:37 ◼   ► thing if not native regulus versions and [TS]

00:38:40 ◼   ► at least a library that implements the [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► native ones are nicer because then you [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► don't have to take your regular [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► expressions and say oh I don't like [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► regular expressions I'm gonna you know [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► they're in strings now it's just a [TS]

00:38:47 ◼   ► string constant JavaScript does that to [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► an extent but it's nice to have native [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► regular expressions with the native [TS]

00:38:53 ◼   ► syntax because they're so darn useful [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► and so common I think you don't have to [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► be calling through the library functions [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► for them and you certainly don't want to [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► have to load a third-party library to do [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► with regular expressions native objects [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► and classes not to get into the oo [TS]

00:39:07 ◼   ► procedural debate functional programming [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► a lot stuff but if you're going to have [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► something that's sort of like objects [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► and classes and you're you know that's [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► going to be like the way you do [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► modularization in your code make it part [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► of the language don't make it so that [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► everyone has to sort of roll their own [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► thing in javascript or say hey we have [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► our own object system you know we've got [TS]

00:39:24 ◼   ► and we've got our own heritage systems [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► but it's one that people have decided [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► they don't want to use like prototype [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► inheritance people may love it and think [TS]

00:39:30 ◼   ► it's cool and everything but everyone [TS]

00:39:32 ◼   ► who wants to program in java scripts [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► like great so how do i make a class and [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► that's kind of a shame for the people [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► who love prototype based inheritance but [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► the bottom line is that that's what [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► people want and you know every single [TS]

00:39:42 ◼   ► library bends over backwards to make [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► something that at least looks a little [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► bit like objects and classes even when [TS]

00:39:47 ◼   ► under the covers it's not quite the same [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► thing [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► one I'll add on here that these are [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► getting progressively more controversial [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► I think is it named parameters [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► positional parameters sucka they could [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► probably all agree on that no one wants [TS]

00:40:00 ◼   ► a function with 27 parameters that have [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► to be exactly the right [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► and you gotta pass nulls or zeros for [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► the ones you don't include and stuff [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► like that names parameters if you if [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► your language doesn't have name [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► parameters people will basically invent [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► them you know for JavaScript passing in [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► you know the little JavaScript object [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► notation for you know name value pairs [TS]

00:40:18 ◼   ► and stuff like that it's not name [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► parameters and I really need to language [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► but this is a data structure that looks [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► just like name parameters that's what [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► everybody uses but it means that order [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► is not important and you don't have to [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► remember what the seventh argument is [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► well the 12th argument is and stuff like [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► that people want names that's the [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► parameter the code reads better [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► Objective C has a half solution where [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► it's like are we had name parameters but [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► you still have to put them in order and [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► if you don't need to put one you got to [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► put a null for it and this it's a [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► sea-based language you forgive it a lot [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► but I think we can all agree things to [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► have that name parameters succinct [TS]

00:40:48 ◼   ► syntax for common operations that means [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► no boilerplate it means as no matter how [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► theoretically pure your language is now [TS]

00:40:55 ◼   ► wants to deal with templates or like if [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► you want to make a class put these 80 [TS]

00:40:58 ◼   ► lines of codes in there and then put [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► your one line of code that's specific to [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► your thing and people don't want things [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► to be verbose and wordy and just huge [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► they want things to be tight and small [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► because if they're not they're not tight [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► and small like in JavaScript where you [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► got to do these little anonymous [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► function closures and everything to get [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► variables inside of scope they will [TS]

00:41:15 ◼   ► invent the syntax that is succinct to [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► replace your crappy one you know it got [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► thanks gamez ago drop it a CoffeeScript [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► people were sick of typing the word [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► function out what that's you know [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► Huffman coding in the parlance of a [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► Larry wallet people going to be typing [TS]

00:41:27 ◼   ► the word function eight bazillion times [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► don't spell it out function you know [TS]

00:41:30 ◼   ► CoffeeScript goes with a little arrow [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► because it's much faster to type it the [TS]

00:41:34 ◼   ► things that are commonly used to be fast [TS]

00:41:36 ◼   ► a type and small you know not giant [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► words um have any other good ones here [TS]

00:41:43 ◼   ► some sort of acknowledgment of [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► concurrency I think we've all agreed is [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► good because languages without any [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► acknowledgement that concurrency exists [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► you end up having problems with it like [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► doesn't mean you have to be you know [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► super concurrent like Erlang or whatever [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► and your entire language is based around [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► that but an acknowledgment that it [TS]

00:41:58 ◼   ► exists and some native mechanism for [TS]

00:42:01 ◼   ► dealing with it even is just like a [TS]

00:42:03 ◼   ► couple primitive native I would say that [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► if you have just have a couple [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► primitives from mutexes and stuff like [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► that then people have this kind of [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► invent some sort of concurrency thing on [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► top of it I mean even it's like implicit [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► concurrency just some acknowledgement [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► that it exists even if you don't even [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► implement it [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► have a language or you can say okay our [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► language construct that looks like this [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► may not have any actual concurrency but [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► the implementation is free to do it [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► concurrently because order is not [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► guaranteed you know something like that [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► I think we've all agreed is a good thing [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► because languages that don't have that [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► it's really hard to add concurrency [TS]

00:42:33 ◼   ► after the fact so pick a language you [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► can find some of these things that are [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► missing from it often frustratingly so [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► and the question is why if we all if [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► you'll agree that these things are great [TS]

00:42:44 ◼   ► and you know over the years we've [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► decided this is what languages should be [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► and we keep adding new things to this [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► list why can't we just make a new [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► language that does that well a language [TS]

00:42:54 ◼   ► in isolation is pretty darn useless if [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► you don't have anything to do with that [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► language if you don't have an API to [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► write foo you can't make programs for a [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► particular platform you're kind of stuck [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► which is a lot of the reason you see [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► like the CoffeeScript and objective [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► sayst J stuff they could invent those [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► languages and I thought hey it's great a [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► menu language called objective J and it [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► looks like this and it's really fun to [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► use they look great what can I do with [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► that we said well you can write web [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► applications feel like I can't require [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► occasions my web browser doesn't have [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► objective site so well we'll take your [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► objective saying J and compile it into [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► JavaScript and then suddenly you have a [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► use for this cool new language [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► CoffeeScript is similar to that or you [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► know rails will make a new API since no [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► one seems to be using Ruby now but we [TS]

00:43:32 ◼   ► think it's really cool here's this great [TS]

00:43:34 ◼   ► new framework and if you want to use a [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► framework use the language ah nice [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► questions why can't we just add these [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► cool features to existing languages well [TS]

00:43:42 ◼   ► it's not it's not easy to add features [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► to languages because you've got that you [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► know installed base and the people who [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► are currently using the language just [TS]

00:43:51 ◼   ► like what happened with trying to make a [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► Akuma script for which is going to be [TS]

00:43:54 ◼   ► the successor to JavaScript which is [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► going to add all sorts of cool wizzy [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► stuff that a lot of which is from that [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► previous list add that to JavaScript but [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► then is like you know it's an open [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► standard and there's standards bodies [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► and people with interests in keeping the [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► language the way it is and then you [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► can't get people to agree about what [TS]

00:44:10 ◼   ► should be added and what shouldn't and [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► then whole process kind of ground to a [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► halt and is really difficult to add [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► stuff to an existing language and even [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► if you get everyone to agree it takes [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► forever for them to be useful like if [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► you made here's the new version of [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► JavaScript and he's got these great new [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► features in fact it's got half of jQuery [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► built into it well you can't use that [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► until some you know [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► a huge percentage of the population has [TS]

00:44:32 ◼   ► upgraded all their browsers to the [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► browser that has the fancy new version [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► of JavaScript in it and it takes years [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► initialize to happen right look at how [TS]

00:44:40 ◼   ► long it's taken for dotnet to be viable [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► because you had all those pcs out there [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► they couldn't run dotnet or didn't have [TS]

00:44:48 ◼   ► dotnet installed and you didn't want [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► your application to be the one that says [TS]

00:44:51 ◼   ► oh here's my cool new application but [TS]

00:44:53 ◼   ► first you got to download this 20 [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► megabyte net runtime and then you know [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► it's a it's a big hang-up where people [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► don't want to download your application [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► then you have all those machines in [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► China they're still running Windows XP [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► and it's just it's just a mess so it's [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► really really difficult to add features [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► to existing languages and even when you [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► can you have to wait so long to use them [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► the by the time you get to use them [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► maybe you think that all the features [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► you add you're too little and you think [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► the a language is crappy again so we're [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► basically forced to suffer through using [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► crappy ancient languages you know as the [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► rest of technology advances quickly you [TS]

00:45:25 ◼   ► know and even within the browser stuff [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► advances faster than languages like the [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► CSS DOM and J and Java Sea is that built [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► are rapidly advancing but the JavaScript [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► language not so much like look how fast [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► you know new versions of CSS are [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► supported a new Dom methods and this Dom [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► method is native now we're adding local [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► database support and all sorts of cool [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► stuff that you can write to the API is [TS]

00:45:45 ◼   ► advanced quickly but the JavaScript [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► language is just stuck I mean you know [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► it there have been tweaks here and there [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► and obviously the implementation it's [TS]

00:45:52 ◼   ► way way faster but the language itself [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► it's the same old crappy self that [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► always was more or less and so here I we [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► just wait with crossed fingers and we [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► just hope that whatever the next hit [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► platform or API is that it's going to [TS]

00:46:04 ◼   ► use a better language right and that the [TS]

00:46:07 ◼   ► that's not just wishful thinking it's [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► happened before so like when the CGI [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► stuff came along that sort of ushered in [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► a new wave of you know dynamic languages [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► with the PC had the Perl Python PHP you [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► know you couldn't you couldn't make [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► those viable to the C programmer say hey [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► stop doing your systems programming in C [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► and C++ [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► try purl knit go no thanks but and see [TS]

00:46:28 ◼   ► when CGI comes along and the P languages [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► yeah oh as a new platform and with this [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► new platform we're going to get to use [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► better languages and since there's no [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► incumbent to unseat and so we don't have [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► to convince the C and C++ programmers to [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► come over we'll just get these new guys [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► hey new guys cool new language try this [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► out write web applications [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► and same thing with rails in Ruby Ruby [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► was not going to be to take over the [TS]

00:46:48 ◼   ► world you know it was not going to [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► replace you know C++ or you can see [TS]

00:46:52 ◼   ► sharp as the windows programming [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► language but if they make this new thing [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► with there's no incumbent then Ruby [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► suddenly can become popular and cocoa [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► with Objective C and so on and so forth [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:47:04 ◼   ► and of course it helps when you have a [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► language is controlled by a single [TS]

00:47:07 ◼   ► vendor like c-sharp where C and C++ you [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► know with it's standard versions that [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► take a million years to come out doesn't [TS]

00:47:15 ◼   ► change that quickly but c-sharp has [TS]

00:47:17 ◼   ► changed really fast like it was [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► introduced out of nowhere as kind of a [TS]

00:47:19 ◼   ► Java cloning thing or whatever and then [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► they've advanced now their versioning [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► version their language like C sharp [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► point 1.0 2.0 3.0 4.0 since a single [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► vendor controls it they don't have to [TS]

00:47:30 ◼   ► get the okay from anyone else they just [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► stick you want to add a cool new feature [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► to language or controlling we're going [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► to add a new feature add a new feature [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► Apple does something similar with [TS]

00:47:37 ◼   ► Objective C maybe a little bit slower [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► but they took it easy in the beginning [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► because they're just getting your OB on [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► board Objective C but then it's like [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► guess what properties synthesized [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► methods and the dot syntax and now fast [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► enumeration and and blocks and you know [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► I mean they're add except to C that's [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► pretty crazy it's kind of more of a [TS]

00:47:54 ◼   ► library thing but if you if you have a [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► single vendor and control of a language [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► it can advanced more rapidly than the [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► standards-based languages but then you [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► know it's the other side of that coin is [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► that if it's not a standard base [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► language people are afraid to use it [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► because they're like I don't want to be [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► under Apple's thumb I'm not going to do [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► Objective C and I don't want to be under [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► Microsoft's thumb so I'm not going to do [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► she sharp and even if it's like an open [TS]

00:48:13 ◼   ► standards de facto controlled by one [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► person it's always a tension there [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► between the development of the language [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► and how fast is going to move on so now [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► finally finally I think we can talk [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► about Perl [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► oh is this is this is the interesting [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► part for me where you get to participate [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► and express your disdain [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► people love the rants when you go on the [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► rants like that they love it last time [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► so people tuned in for booed maybe we [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► should do our spot you want to do the [TS]

00:48:45 ◼   ► sponsor now or neck or after this yeah [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► you should go for it [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► world view we've talked about these guys [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► before this is the totally addictive [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► take on email reporting from campaign [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► monitor basically and we have a lot of [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► people I think in the audience ooh [TS]

00:48:57 ◼   ► - newsletters they have their own [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► business they have a small they do a [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► website maybe they're a software [TS]

00:49:02 ◼   ► developer they have clients so this is [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► from campaign monitor when you send a [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► newsletter they'll show you on a map in [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► real time [TS]

00:49:09 ◼   ► whenever somebody opens the newsletter [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► because that's the thing you send out a [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► newsletter you're like whoa who read it [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► Oh 34 people read it who where are they [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► what's going on [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► now they actually show you this in real [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► time on a map and it's very you're [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► talking about things like JavaScript a [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► lot of JavaScript here but it's all [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► seamless it's gorgeous [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► gonna check this out go to a campaign [TS]

00:49:31 ◼   ► monitor comm slash world view whenever [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► somebody opens your newsletter when they [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► click on a link when they forward it to [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► a buddy in in real time it shows up on [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► this map are you looking at it right now [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► it's very cool it also show you on [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► Facebook when it's mentioned when it's [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► mentioned on Twitter instantaneously and [TS]

00:49:48 ◼   ► it's free for every email campaign you [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► send and you can you can get started for [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► free too so go check them out check [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► these guys out campaign monitor comm [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► slash worldview [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► thanks very much those guys they're [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► really smart for advertising that [TS]

00:50:02 ◼   ► feature because I guarantee you that is [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► the the feature that the people who who [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► purchase the service are most excited [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► about news you can just see people [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► staring at that map you know because [TS]

00:50:10 ◼   ► watching listening and you're gonna send [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► out direct communication like this is [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► what you want like if you just click the [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► button and go home it's not exciting [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► you're gonna sit there and stare at that [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► map and like now now the world will see [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► what I have to say and exactly that is a [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► very smart feature very cool and that's [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► just a demo so go go try this out anyway [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► we got to talk about this Perl thing now [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► you it has been revealed here not only [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► to two things that are I think going to [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► be shocking to most of the listening [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► audience the first one is listen to [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► other shows we've talked about it before [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► two things are going to be shocking to [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► listening on it's the first one is that [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► you you your job you are a pearl [TS]

00:50:50 ◼   ► programmer so that's shocked number one [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► and shock number two is that at least [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► this is the part that we're going to [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► have to talk about my understanding is [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► you can actually read the pearl after [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► you've written it you can go back and [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► read what you've written and understand [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► it which is my understanding is that's [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► not possible with pearl at all even in [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► the best situation so I'd like for you [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► to address both of those points [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► please begin well at first I want to [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► talk about something that you said on a [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► past show about objective-c but I think [TS]

00:51:17 ◼   ► it was on the previous show where you [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► were talking about the square brackets [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► in a coalition - and you can't stand I [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► don't like this yeah so you've obviously [TS]

00:51:25 ◼   ► done a little bit of objective-c [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► development ah yeah and you like what [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► the language can do for you you like [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► yeah the resulting applications you know [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► you like the platform you like iOS you [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► like Mac OS 10 yeah [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► but the language itself you don't like [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► and you brought up the square brackets [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► cuz you think they're ugly I don't like [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► this I don't like the look of it I am a [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► very uh I care a lot at least on on the [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► computer I care a lot about how things [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► look visually but you know I'm a [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► stickler for fonts I've written a lot of [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► articles on high vulajin sand what fonts [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► I it's you know the editor that I use is [TS]