27: Nakedly Optimistic


00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:02   this is hypercritical a weekly talkshow [TS]

00:00:04   ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

00:00:06   the world of Apple related technologies [TS]

00:00:09   and businesses nothing is so perfect [TS]

00:00:11   that it can't be complained about [TS]

00:00:13   especially not lying shows hosted by [TS]

00:00:15   John siracusa and I'm dan Benjamin [TS]

00:00:18   this is episode number 27 we'd like to [TS]

00:00:21   say thanks to the Omni group and for [TS]

00:00:24   harvest and of course Stack Overflow for [TS]

00:00:26   making this show possible tell you more [TS]

00:00:29   about them as the show goes on I'd also [TS]

00:00:32   like to mention that bandwidth has been [TS]

00:00:34   provided by Midas green technologies [TS]

00:00:36   Virtual Private servers submerged in oil [TS]

00:00:39   seriously check them out and Midas green [TS]

00:00:41   tech comm so you know this was a big [TS]

00:00:45   week for Apple not because of their [TS]

00:00:47   announcements but because of your your [TS]

00:00:50   lion review which was based on their [TS]

00:00:54   announcement right but I mean this the [TS]

00:00:55   big news this week was that your review [TS]

00:00:56   came out for me this was the big news [TS]

00:00:58   sure is big news for me too [TS]

00:01:00   and I just I would like to just stop for [TS]

00:01:02   a second and take a minute to say not [TS]

00:01:07   just for me but on behalf of all my [TS]

00:01:08   fellow geeks out there congratulations [TS]

00:01:11   on that the release of this it's an [TS]

00:01:13   excellent excellent write-up excellent [TS]

00:01:15   piece of work you should be incredibly [TS]

00:01:17   proud of yourself your best one yet best [TS]

00:01:20   one yet best thing you've ever written [TS]

00:01:22   nice of you to say that I'm not kidding [TS]

00:01:25   best thing you've ever done [TS]

00:01:26   if you never writes anything else again [TS]

00:01:29   you'll be able to hang your hat on this [TS]

00:01:31   for your career this is great read the [TS]

00:01:34   whole thing cover to cover all 85 pages [TS]

00:01:37   didn't actually print the did you I [TS]

00:01:39   printed it and I put every page up on a [TS]

00:01:42   wall of the house so that I could just [TS]

00:01:45   sort of almost like an art gallery each [TS]

00:01:46   page a perfect piece of artwork and just [TS]

00:01:50   move from one to the next just sort of [TS]

00:01:52   studying it so did you put push pins in [TS]

00:01:54   them and connect them with college [TS]

00:01:55   string [TS]

00:01:56   I had to resist and the medication is [TS]

00:01:59   helping with that but it came close and [TS]

00:02:03   it wouldn't have been string it would [TS]

00:02:04   have been multicolored yarn you're right [TS]

00:02:07   I think you're right but it was that [TS]

00:02:09   that was the idea was going from no I [TS]

00:02:11   didn't actually it was a little bit a [TS]

00:02:12   little bit of a [TS]

00:02:13   of a story when I started reading it I [TS]

00:02:15   started reading it on the web and then I [TS]

00:02:18   thought well you know I want to be a [TS]

00:02:19   little bit more mobile than this and I [TS]

00:02:23   thought well you know I could use one of [TS]

00:02:24   those readability read later Instapaper [TS]

00:02:27   type things to do it I said but instead [TS]

00:02:29   let's let's see how this thing looks you [TS]

00:02:31   know through like an e-book format so I [TS]

00:02:36   hopefully you get credit because I used [TS]

00:02:38   your affiliate link to buy the Kindle [TS]

00:02:41   version of it so hopefully you'll get [TS]

00:02:42   that and hopefully you get some cut of [TS]

00:02:44   the sales because you know you should [TS]

00:02:47   but anyway there that aside it was great [TS]

00:02:51   I read it I read it on my iPad starting [TS]

00:02:53   about a third of the way through I read [TS]

00:02:54   that the last you know two thirds of it [TS]

00:02:57   on the iPad a great experience [TS]

00:03:00   you know I said on the past shows that [TS]

00:03:02   the way I thought was best to read it [TS]

00:03:05   was on the web and I still believe that [TS]

00:03:06   having seen like I bought my own Kindle [TS]

00:03:09   version of the book - and I've seen the [TS]

00:03:11   eBook version that you get if you're an [TS]

00:03:12   ARS premier subscriber which is very [TS]

00:03:15   similar and they're not they're not as [TS]

00:03:16   good as the web version web version has [TS]

00:03:19   more stuff Kindle is awful with [TS]

00:03:21   transparent paintings like the Kindle [TS]

00:03:23   reader apps are they don't know how to [TS]

00:03:25   display transparent pink so all of these [TS]

00:03:27   screenshots that you take with command [TS]

00:03:29   shift 4 and then spacebar to get the [TS]

00:03:30   image and the shadow behind it yeah the [TS]

00:03:32   transparent shadows get screwed up by [TS]

00:03:34   the Kindle app stuff like that just as [TS]

00:03:36   you can imagine drives me up a wall well [TS]

00:03:39   let me actually do I still say the best [TS]

00:03:40   way to read it is on the web whether for [TS]

00:03:43   free just go to the website and read it [TS]

00:03:45   or pay for the RS premier or [TS]

00:03:47   subscription and you get no ads and all [TS]

00:03:48   this other stuff that you get but also [TS]

00:03:49   you can view it all in one page if [TS]

00:03:51   that's what you want I actually like it [TS]

00:03:53   split up on several pages when I read [TS]

00:03:55   long long things at the our site so I [TS]

00:03:57   can keep track of where I am let me just [TS]

00:03:59   ask you a question about that because [TS]

00:04:00   you mentioned the screenshots all of the [TS]

00:04:02   screenshots that you took which were [TS]

00:04:03   which were great I was actually to be [TS]

00:04:05   honest the way you were talking about [TS]

00:04:06   having to redo all of them every time [TS]

00:04:08   Apple changed something I was expecting [TS]

00:04:12   more of them and I was pleased that [TS]

00:04:14   there that there weren't more of them I [TS]

00:04:15   thought it was just right just the right [TS]

00:04:17   amount but how come you take the [TS]

00:04:21   screenshots with the the drop shadows [TS]

00:04:23   behind them is that because you know I [TS]

00:04:26   mean of if [TS]

00:04:27   if anybody knows you can do it another [TS]

00:04:28   way you know certainly that you can [TS]

00:04:30   disable the drop shadows why why keep [TS]

00:04:32   them just because that transparency [TS]

00:04:35   aliasing type issue if you know that [TS]

00:04:37   that might not translate well to a [TS]

00:04:38   printed thing or to a different format [TS]

00:04:40   why why keep the drop shadows well first [TS]

00:04:43   of all I didn't know going in that the [TS]

00:04:45   kindle can't handle transparent images [TS]

00:04:47   it seems like you know it's 2011 it's [TS]

00:04:50   not like transparency and images to [TS]

00:04:51   something new so how do I know not going [TS]

00:04:53   in I don't know maybe I would have made [TS]

00:04:55   different choices for the Kindle version [TS]

00:04:57   or tried to make duplicates for the [TS]

00:04:58   Kindle or something right but for for [TS]

00:05:00   Mac OS 10 screenshots for a long time I [TS]

00:05:02   was doing them without the drop shall [TS]

00:05:04   use absolve are and stuff like that but [TS]

00:05:07   Mac OS 10 windows have never really had [TS]

00:05:10   edges like if you if you zoom in on them [TS]

00:05:14   with a you know the pixie or whatever [TS]

00:05:15   other screen zoom tool you want to do is [TS]

00:05:17   they don't actually have edges they have [TS]

00:05:19   the content ends right and then there's [TS]

00:05:21   a one pixel thing that's kind of [TS]

00:05:23   transparent and you don't realize that's [TS]

00:05:26   not the edge when you're looking at it [TS]

00:05:27   looks like the edge like it you know [TS]

00:05:28   from a distance it appears as a crisp [TS]

00:05:30   edge there but the transparency shows up [TS]

00:05:32   if you trim everything out but still [TS]

00:05:35   include that one pixel line you realize [TS]

00:05:37   huh that one pixel line is picking up [TS]

00:05:38   the background so if you have some [TS]

00:05:40   dramatic background like one of those [TS]

00:05:41   nature images or something that comes [TS]

00:05:42   with Mac OS 10 and you chop everything [TS]

00:05:45   out you're like why the hell does the [TS]

00:05:46   border look all orange over here and [TS]

00:05:48   blue over there then you don't realize [TS]

00:05:49   it's not right and your other choices [TS]

00:05:50   all right so fine chop off that border [TS]

00:05:53   but then it looks like you you don't how [TS]

00:05:55   to use an image editor that you poorly [TS]

00:05:56   you know cut the thing especially if the [TS]

00:05:58   background of the webpage it's being [TS]

00:06:00   displayed on is a similar college the [TS]

00:06:01   content area they seem to blend together [TS]

00:06:03   the window has no edge and finally [TS]

00:06:06   there's the rounded corners which on in [TS]

00:06:08   line are actually top and bottom on a [TS]

00:06:09   lot of windows the rounded corners you [TS]

00:06:12   have to deal with something there you [TS]

00:06:12   can't have an image that set shape so [TS]

00:06:14   you do have to have transparency in the [TS]

00:06:15   corners and then you this the even worse [TS]

00:06:16   problem because you've got a one pixel [TS]

00:06:18   transparent fade on the corners that's [TS]

00:06:20   fading into the background and forget [TS]

00:06:22   about trying to trim that off by hand or [TS]

00:06:24   do anything with it it's just a big mess [TS]

00:06:25   drop shadow gets rid of all that it's [TS]

00:06:27   already transparent you can trim the [TS]

00:06:29   drop shadow only thing I didn't like in [TS]

00:06:30   line is the drop shadow got way bigger [TS]

00:06:31   so now I have to truncate the drop [TS]

00:06:34   shadow on windows much more than I used [TS]

00:06:36   to have to and you can see that cut off [TS]

00:06:37   between like the smooth fade and then is [TS]

00:06:39   like the sharp cut off before [TS]

00:06:40   goes to the background of the webpages [TS]

00:06:42   display it on so it's the lesser of many [TS]

00:06:44   different evils and I believe me I've [TS]

00:06:46   tried every possible approach and this [TS]

00:06:47   is the one that drives me crazy the [TS]

00:06:49   least let me just interrupt for a second [TS]

00:06:51   John your train of thought and and say [TS]

00:06:53   if you're listening to this and you have [TS]

00:06:55   not yet read this line review at ARS [TS]

00:07:00   technica written by John siracusa then [TS]

00:07:02   shame on you stop listening now and go [TS]

00:07:04   read it and I'll also I'll do like a [TS]

00:07:06   half shame if you didn't in some way or [TS]

00:07:10   another support John by by buying it in [TS]

00:07:13   some fashion supporting ours and [TS]

00:07:15   supporting John in some fashion shame on [TS]

00:07:18   you I just want to be clear about that [TS]

00:07:21   half shame for the second one alright so [TS]

00:07:24   there's so much stuff to go through in [TS]

00:07:27   this review I'm not quite sure where to [TS]

00:07:28   begin but I figure I'll get my personal [TS]

00:07:32   whining out of the way first and then [TS]

00:07:34   I'll let you drive and just say like [TS]

00:07:36   that you can pick out parts that you [TS]

00:07:37   thought were interesting we can jump off [TS]

00:07:39   from there well I have to I have to tell [TS]

00:07:40   you I'm very nervous about this quiz you [TS]

00:07:42   were maybe you were kidding but I've [TS]

00:07:44   been very nervous about it like I don't [TS]

00:07:45   get nervous doing these shows even [TS]

00:07:47   though I realize we have you know very [TS]

00:07:48   large audience I do shows every day so [TS]

00:07:50   I've become accustomed to being you know [TS]

00:07:53   live and recording live and having a [TS]

00:07:54   large audience I've never been as [TS]

00:07:57   nervous as I am today to prepared for [TS]

00:08:01   this quiz because I know I'm gonna I [TS]

00:08:02   know I'm going to fail it I know it's [TS]

00:08:03   all it's all opinion-based don't worry [TS]

00:08:05   okay alright so so first I'm going to [TS]

00:08:09   talk about my experience of publishing [TS]

00:08:12   this review which is a little inside [TS]

00:08:14   baseball but it's one thing that I can [TS]

00:08:16   offer that other people talking about [TS]

00:08:18   the same review can't so I figured this [TS]

00:08:20   is the place for it so I thought when I [TS]

00:08:24   was doing this that I would be very [TS]

00:08:26   relieved when it finally got published [TS]

00:08:28   and I figured there would be the usual [TS]

00:08:30   kind of scramble in the couple minutes [TS]

00:08:33   after its published to you know fix [TS]

00:08:34   typos and slang like that oh and all [TS]

00:08:37   that was true but one thing a couple [TS]

00:08:40   conditions conspired to make this much [TS]

00:08:42   more difficult birth so to speak than my [TS]

00:08:44   previous reviews the first as I've [TS]

00:08:46   talked about before was that Apple gave [TS]

00:08:49   the release date as just July and they [TS]

00:08:51   didn't know when July would be ready so [TS]

00:08:52   I tried to be ready in July [TS]

00:08:54   first because that's the worst case [TS]

00:08:56   scenario that they actually release on [TS]

00:08:57   July 1st I have to be ready you know day [TS]

00:08:59   off right I mean it I did wasn't ready [TS]

00:09:03   on the first but I did get it finished [TS]

00:09:04   on the third but I was in such a mad [TS]

00:09:06   rush to get finished that I always felt [TS]

00:09:08   that the latter sections of the review [TS]

00:09:11   like sort of where I tailed off where I [TS]

00:09:13   had to just hurry up and get this thing [TS]

00:09:14   done were not up to snuff and not up to [TS]

00:09:17   snuff in a particular way now if you [TS]

00:09:19   look go back through the reviews that [TS]

00:09:20   I've written it used to be that and this [TS]

00:09:23   this is one of the things that gave me [TS]

00:09:24   the reputation I had now used to be that [TS]

00:09:26   the idea was from version X to version [TS]

00:09:28   why I would tell you every single little [TS]

00:09:31   miniscule thing to change and that used [TS]

00:09:34   to actually be possible from like ten [TS]

00:09:35   point zero to ten point one or ten point [TS]

00:09:37   one to ten point two not that much [TS]

00:09:38   changed right and I was so embroiled in [TS]

00:09:41   Mac OS 10 then it so interested in every [TS]

00:09:44   little detail like I said well they move [TS]

00:09:45   this thing by pixel may change how [TS]

00:09:46   that's worded move that around like that [TS]

00:09:48   ah and that sort of that sort of ramped [TS]

00:09:52   up as it went along it became harder [TS]

00:09:53   from you do that in fact what I started [TS]

00:09:54   to do was as other people start to [TS]

00:09:55   notice Mac OS 10 they would do those NDA [TS]

00:09:58   breaking things where for months at a [TS]

00:09:59   time they'd be saying hey look we found [TS]

00:10:00   this hey look we found that and I would [TS]

00:10:02   comb the I've been collectibles all this [TS]

00:10:05   together so when I published mine it [TS]

00:10:06   would basically be a collection of [TS]

00:10:07   things I discovered my own plus [TS]

00:10:08   hopefully every other interesting thing [TS]

00:10:10   that I could discover that anyone else [TS]

00:10:11   discovered collected in one spot so if [TS]

00:10:13   you want to know every possible thing [TS]

00:10:14   that was changed you would know it now [TS]

00:10:16   somewhere in the middle of Mac os10 [TS]

00:10:17   sister II I started to drift from that [TS]

00:10:19   for a couple of reasons first was that [TS]

00:10:21   it interested me less you know that they [TS]

00:10:24   move this pixel here or they change this [TS]

00:10:26   checkbox or that you know this used to [TS]

00:10:27   be option modifier but now it's shift [TS]

00:10:29   and stuff like that I became less [TS]

00:10:31   interested in the small things like that [TS]

00:10:32   and I came more interested in the big [TS]

00:10:33   things like you know the message of the [TS]

00:10:35   OS where is this going what what does [TS]

00:10:37   this change mean for the future of the [TS]

00:10:39   users or the platform or anything like [TS]

00:10:41   that and the second was they just [TS]

00:10:43   started changing way too many things [TS]

00:10:44   like it was just no way that a single [TS]

00:10:46   person I could find all the things that [TS]

00:10:49   had changed even if you're scouring the [TS]

00:10:51   web and the final one I think is that I [TS]

00:10:54   lost interested in I think readers did [TS]

00:10:56   too and that you can't have 30,000 words [TS]

00:10:59   just screen after screen showing the old [TS]

00:11:03   version like this the new version was [TS]

00:11:04   like that this modify change that modify [TS]

00:11:06   change this button changed over the [TS]

00:11:09   you know it it's just it's just not as [TS]

00:11:12   interesting to readers I don't think I [TS]

00:11:14   think if you if you saw pages upon pages [TS]

00:11:16   of that I wouldn't be able to do what I [TS]

00:11:18   normally try to do when all these [TS]

00:11:19   reviews just have some sort of through a [TS]

00:11:21   thread or a narrative structure to it if [TS]

00:11:24   I'm just going through an annotating [TS]

00:11:26   screenshots like I think this is what [TS]

00:11:27   you were saying you were fearing when I [TS]

00:11:28   when you said there's going to be a lot [TS]

00:11:29   of screenshots you're gonna phrase just [TS]

00:11:30   gonna be screen after screen it's know [TS]

00:11:32   exactly things exactly and just like a [TS]

00:11:34   few little cut like a few little [TS]

00:11:36   comments underneath you see a lot on the [TS]

00:11:37   web and it's definitely a place from [TS]

00:11:38   that in fact the artist people decided a [TS]

00:11:41   one point in the review I said if you're [TS]

00:11:43   looking for a screenshot gallery that [TS]

00:11:44   shows you every change screen this isn't [TS]

00:11:46   it you can find other ones on the web [TS]

00:11:47   and the arts guys when they're editing [TS]

00:11:49   your review said you know why don't we [TS]

00:11:51   do one of those so that we don't have to [TS]

00:11:52   direct people to another website I said [TS]

00:11:54   yeah you should do one because there's a [TS]

00:11:55   place for that some people want that and [TS]

00:11:56   I would like to give it to them so they [TS]

00:11:59   did a line screenshot gallery and I link [TS]

00:12:01   to it from my review to say this is what [TS]

00:12:03   you're looking for this is this over [TS]

00:12:04   here but my thing is over there but [TS]

00:12:06   anyway getting back to the release date [TS]

00:12:08   I wanted to do more of that type of [TS]

00:12:11   stuff like I say that for the end like I [TS]

00:12:13   have copious copious notes of all these [TS]

00:12:15   little things that changed here and [TS]

00:12:16   there and I wanted to add to have a [TS]

00:12:18   couple weeks at the end to just do the [TS]

00:12:20   grab bag section properly or flesh out [TS]

00:12:22   the application change of section with [TS]

00:12:24   all these little things that were in my [TS]

00:12:25   notes but I just didn't get to it and [TS]

00:12:26   once I shipped it it was just like on [TS]

00:12:29   the third once I put it off into the [TS]

00:12:30   editorial process it's like I can't you [TS]

00:12:33   know I can't go back and keep changing [TS]

00:12:35   this because that will not ever allow [TS]

00:12:37   them as they're making ebook versions [TS]

00:12:38   and they have to copy edit and they have [TS]

00:12:40   to you know go through regular editing [TS]

00:12:42   and like I can't keep going back say oh [TS]

00:12:43   and by the way I just changed 2,000 [TS]

00:12:45   words oh and here's a whole big new [TS]

00:12:46   thing because we had to be ready to go [TS]

00:12:48   any day we didn't know when it was going [TS]

00:12:49   to come out right so I just didn't get [TS]

00:12:53   that you know if it was if it was a hard [TS]

00:12:55   date and that date was the actual data [TS]

00:12:57   was released the 19th or whatever I [TS]

00:12:58   don't remember anymore I would have [TS]

00:13:00   worked right up to the limit where they [TS]

00:13:02   would have X number of days for editing [TS]

00:13:04   and stuff but as things stood it had to [TS]

00:13:06   go in the third go through the process [TS]

00:13:07   and then it kind of sat there and then [TS]

00:13:08   it's like well can I go back in and add [TS]

00:13:11   stuff now [TS]

00:13:12   well that means anything I add has to be [TS]

00:13:14   recopy edited has to be reincorporating [TS]

00:13:16   to the e-book versions and the ebook [TS]

00:13:17   versions even though Amazon was had a [TS]

00:13:19   quick turnaround time we didn't know it [TS]

00:13:20   was going to be quick so we [TS]

00:13:21   - that ebook version was being worked on [TS]

00:13:24   and had to be submitted and I just [TS]

00:13:27   didn't touch it after it was in there on [TS]

00:13:28   the third except for one or two minor [TS]

00:13:30   things and then when it shipped III all [TS]

00:13:35   I could think of was like all the all [TS]

00:13:36   the ways that I had failed to live up to [TS]

00:13:38   what I expected out of that part of the [TS]

00:13:40   review now the other part of the review [TS]

00:13:42   the part where I'm talking about what [TS]

00:13:43   these changes mean for the OS and the [TS]

00:13:44   direction the future I was very happy [TS]

00:13:46   with that just wasn't happy with the [TS]

00:13:48   with the amount of detail I wanted to [TS]

00:13:50   cover you even down to things like you [TS]

00:13:53   know these are not things that I was [TS]

00:13:55   completely unaware of they're in my [TS]

00:13:56   notes right I didn't even get time to go [TS]

00:13:58   through all my notes and say what I [TS]

00:14:00   wanted to do was go through I know it's [TS]

00:14:01   line by line and said that I talked [TS]

00:14:02   about that yes/no or decided not to that [TS]

00:14:04   I talked about that yes/no or decided [TS]

00:14:06   not to that just didn't have time that I [TS]

00:14:08   was just so burnt out by the time it was [TS]

00:14:10   done so that disappointed me and sure [TS]

00:14:13   enough when it shipped first said that [TS]

00:14:15   the reign of typos and stuff coming I [TS]

00:14:17   was actually pretty good considering [TS]

00:14:18   27,000 word there was maybe 20 instances [TS]

00:14:21   of typos or a teacher knows nothing [TS]

00:14:23   thank ya the copy editors at ours are [TS]

00:14:25   actually really good and the stuff that [TS]

00:14:27   they missed is you know it's [TS]

00:14:29   understandable one or two double words I [TS]

00:14:31   could say was that maybe should have [TS]

00:14:33   been caught by copy editing but you know [TS]

00:14:35   I don't even know those guys do what [TS]

00:14:36   they do I wouldn't have caught any of [TS]

00:14:38   them because I'm a horrible copy editor [TS]

00:14:41   but the second thing that burned me is [TS]

00:14:43   that even though as you discussed in [TS]

00:14:45   previous shows even though the build [TS]

00:14:46   number for the retail release of this [TS]

00:14:47   thing is the same as the build number [TS]

00:14:48   for the GM seed it's not the same thing [TS]

00:14:52   and I felt a little bit better when I [TS]

00:14:55   read the exact same what least one of [TS]

00:14:56   the exact same mistakes in the macro [TS]

00:14:58   review I had a section interview where I [TS]

00:15:00   initially talked about how you know the [TS]

00:15:02   doc indicator light strong application [TS]

00:15:04   she's running yeah I talked about how [TS]

00:15:06   those were not turned on by default and [TS]

00:15:09   how the message Apple was sending with [TS]

00:15:11   that well they weren't turned on by [TS]

00:15:13   default and every single build including [TS]

00:15:15   the GMC bill but in the retail release [TS]

00:15:17   they're on so even though it's the same [TS]

00:15:19   build they change things in the OS [TS]

00:15:20   things like that things like what the [TS]

00:15:22   default setting is when you do a new [TS]

00:15:23   install it's not like it's a different [TS]

00:15:25   build of the OS but when you install it [TS]

00:15:27   you get a different experience and there [TS]

00:15:29   are and that could you know that could [TS]

00:15:31   have been very very much a last minute [TS]

00:15:33   decision right like the night of [TS]

00:15:35   that's what I was getting to when I was [TS]

00:15:37   trying to say that like always wait for [TS]

00:15:39   the retail release if you possibly can [TS]

00:15:42   because even and this is a extreme case [TS]

00:15:45   it is exactly the same build number so [TS]

00:15:47   I'm sure the binaries in the libraries [TS]

00:15:48   are all exactly the same as the GMC but [TS]

00:15:50   it is not quote unquote the same OS [TS]

00:15:52   because if you install the GMC at an [TS]

00:15:54   empty hard drive and you install the [TS]

00:15:55   retail release on an empty hard drive [TS]

00:15:56   when you launch them one has dots under [TS]

00:15:58   the dock running app someone doesn't [TS]

00:16:00   stuff like that getting burned because [TS]

00:16:03   we were viewing the GMC was tough and [TS]

00:16:05   that was something new in this [TS]

00:16:06   experience because in the past almost [TS]

00:16:08   always they give you like this is the [TS]

00:16:10   final GM you've got a week to test your [TS]

00:16:11   applications with it it's going to show [TS]

00:16:13   up in stores on this date and we would [TS]

00:16:14   know it's the final jam like it would be [TS]

00:16:16   a disk image it would be byte for byte [TS]

00:16:19   identical to if you burned it to the [TS]

00:16:21   disk image you buy in a store so that [TS]

00:16:24   was a little bit tough and then finally [TS]

00:16:26   because I was so fried near the end of [TS]

00:16:28   this I made a whole bunch of just dumb [TS]

00:16:29   mistakes and since this is hypocritical [TS]

00:16:32   I should go through a few of them this [TS]

00:16:34   is not going to be a comprehensive list [TS]

00:16:35   but this is just kind of be an example [TS]

00:16:38   of each kind of error maybe so the doc [TS]

00:16:42   indicator lights already went through [TS]

00:16:43   things where the retail build was [TS]

00:16:44   different in terms of policy or defaults [TS]

00:16:47   than than the GM seed what can you do [TS]

00:16:49   about that right no one had the retail [TS]

00:16:51   build until my review was already [TS]

00:16:52   published right you know or close to it [TS]

00:16:57   trying to figure out how the [TS]

00:17:00   installation process works with the [TS]

00:17:01   recovery partition and everything like [TS]

00:17:02   that I got fooled by I mean I had a [TS]

00:17:06   limited amount of nosing around I could [TS]

00:17:07   do from the terminal to try to figure [TS]

00:17:10   out what the heck is it actually booting [TS]

00:17:11   from what does it look like and I got [TS]

00:17:12   fooled by the fact that the thing that [TS]

00:17:14   boots from looks very similar to the [TS]

00:17:16   recovery partition but it doesn't [TS]

00:17:17   actually reboot from the recovery [TS]

00:17:18   partition when it goes to the Installer [TS]

00:17:20   it does a separate boot image on the [TS]

00:17:21   boot drive then creates the repair every [TS]

00:17:23   partition oh is there all technical [TS]

00:17:25   details no one cares about that kills me [TS]

00:17:26   when I know that well you're going for a [TS]

00:17:28   hundred percent accuracy that's right oh [TS]

00:17:30   yeah I 100% and I can't talk about the [TS]

00:17:32   preview show I didn't just assume that [TS]

00:17:33   from the recovery job I said let me [TS]

00:17:35   confirm this let me get into a terminal [TS]

00:17:37   when I'm in that stage and install [TS]

00:17:38   process see if I can poke around and [TS]

00:17:39   look at what the heck of this is and [TS]

00:17:41   where it's mounted and what the contents [TS]

00:17:42   are and I just I just got fooled because [TS]

00:17:44   it looks like something that was [TS]

00:17:46   familiar to me I didn't realize it [TS]

00:17:47   you know busy can't tell what what [TS]

00:17:49   slashes and where it's coming from [TS]

00:17:50   especially when it's booting off a disk [TS]

00:17:52   image and it's it's difficult to [TS]

00:17:54   understand all that stuff so I was [TS]

00:17:57   annoyed by that Apple broke a bunch of [TS]

00:18:00   my links to documentation which annoyed [TS]

00:18:02   me the day line was released they [TS]

00:18:04   rejiggered all their documentation now I [TS]

00:18:06   never linked to the documentation that [TS]

00:18:08   was under like the pre-release URLs [TS]

00:18:10   because I know those aren't going to [TS]

00:18:11   work for people I'm linking to things [TS]

00:18:13   like techno this is one that you really [TS]

00:18:15   can only tech node 1150 which talks [TS]

00:18:16   about the HFS+ vol format which as you [TS]

00:18:18   can imagine I linked to like six times [TS]

00:18:19   various sections of it you know have [TS]

00:18:21   anchors within because it's a very long [TS]

00:18:23   document I linked to various sections of [TS]

00:18:25   it to explain certain concepts if you [TS]

00:18:26   didn't know what I was talking about [TS]

00:18:28   they removed that from the web entirely [TS]

00:18:30   so not only they moved the URL that I [TS]

00:18:32   there is no URL for I found one guy who [TS]

00:18:34   had copy pasted it years ago and I [TS]

00:18:36   updated the web version to include links [TS]

00:18:38   to that and I talked to some Apple [TS]

00:18:41   people and they basically said we [TS]

00:18:42   cleaned up our documentation if there's [TS]

00:18:44   some documentation that used to be there [TS]

00:18:45   it's not and you want it back file a bug [TS]

00:18:46   which is just basically did you know [TS]

00:18:50   it's like the you know the old saying [TS]

00:18:51   what patches welcome translates to in [TS]

00:18:53   the open source world right what does [TS]

00:18:55   yeah [TS]

00:18:56   fu mm-hmm patches welcome file a bug if [TS]

00:18:59   you want it back they're serious I know [TS]

00:19:01   but like it's not the type of turnaround [TS]

00:19:03   time I expect I need something these [TS]

00:19:05   links can go to now so I linked to this [TS]

00:19:06   guy's copy and pasted thing [TS]

00:19:09   what else did I get wrong some features [TS]

00:19:11   that were that I said were new in line [TS]

00:19:14   were not new in line they existed in [TS]

00:19:15   Snow Leopard I just never seen them [TS]

00:19:16   through a series of strange coincidence [TS]

00:19:19   like one of them is the the the [TS]

00:19:22   lockscreen allows you to switch to a [TS]

00:19:24   different user well I I use fast user [TS]

00:19:27   switching at home but I don't use screen [TS]

00:19:29   locking because you know it's in my [TS]

00:19:30   house and physically secure whatever and [TS]

00:19:32   at work I use screen locking for [TS]

00:19:34   security reasons but I don't use fast [TS]

00:19:36   user switching does I'm the only person [TS]

00:19:37   who's on the machine and this situation [TS]

00:19:39   has been the same across multiple jobs [TS]

00:19:40   and multiple Macs and all this conspired [TS]

00:19:43   to make me never actually see the switch [TS]

00:19:44   user button which apparently exists [TS]

00:19:46   under certain circumstances on Snow [TS]

00:19:48   Leopard if you have like the fast user [TS]

00:19:50   switching menu item enabled and and you [TS]

00:19:53   have multiple accounts and you have [TS]

00:19:55   screen locking turned on was another one [TS]

00:20:00   was another similar thing where it [TS]

00:20:01   actually existed in Snow Leopard and I [TS]

00:20:02   thought it was new and had to clarify [TS]

00:20:05   which aspects of a renew the entire [TS]

00:20:07   feature wasn't new but the appearance of [TS]

00:20:09   it was what our stuff like that kills me [TS]

00:20:11   and like so the first couple days the [TS]

00:20:12   thing was up all doing is run around [TS]

00:20:14   like a chicken with my head cut off [TS]

00:20:15   trying to fix these things and every [TS]

00:20:17   time I fix one I'm thinking that Kindle [TS]

00:20:20   version is out there without these [TS]

00:20:21   changes because Amazon system for [TS]

00:20:23   updating Kindle e-books sucks you can [TS]

00:20:27   upload a new version but then you ask [TS]

00:20:29   Amazon okay if I if I give you a new [TS]

00:20:30   version of this and you eventually you [TS]

00:20:32   know vet it and put it up on the thing [TS]

00:20:34   what happens to all the people who have [TS]

00:20:35   already purchased and already downloaded [TS]

00:20:37   this did they get the new version they [TS]

00:20:38   say no they can request the new version [TS]

00:20:41   from Amazon if they want some through [TS]

00:20:43   some mechanism so they have to like you [TS]

00:20:45   know and Amazon says will happily email [TS]

00:20:47   all the people who purchased it and tell [TS]

00:20:49   them hey if you want the new version [TS]

00:20:50   please send us a request and here's the [TS]

00:20:51   URL to go to like that's not 20 you know [TS]

00:20:54   and you don't want to do that every day [TS]

00:20:55   either I mean if you find one change [TS]

00:20:57   either one that email going in 2008 so [TS]

00:20:59   so there's necessarily days where in [TS]

00:21:02   fact I think the Kindle version is [TS]

00:21:04   actually finally updated now but there [TS]

00:21:05   are many days where just you know tons [TS]

00:21:08   and tons of changes the web version that [TS]

00:21:09   were not in the Kindle version so then I [TS]

00:21:11   had to endure repeated it's not I don't [TS]

00:21:14   say endure like these people [TS]

00:21:15   I'm glad every single one of these [TS]

00:21:17   people sent me in a correction it's just [TS]

00:21:19   tough when you know that the thing [TS]

00:21:21   they're telling you to correct has been [TS]

00:21:22   corrected on the web for a long time and [TS]

00:21:24   you're just wait'll version yet now [TS]

00:21:27   you're excited getting a sense of how [TS]

00:21:29   like an iOS developer feels once they've [TS]

00:21:31   submitted an app and it fixes all these [TS]

00:21:33   bugs that are giving it the one star [TS]

00:21:35   this app sucks reviews and they're just [TS]

00:21:37   like waiting on Apple to do something [TS]

00:21:39   that's exactly the same type of thing so [TS]

00:21:40   that was not a pleasant experience so [TS]

00:21:44   the launch was was rocky for me and how [TS]

00:21:48   are you handling it was all right I [TS]

00:21:50   could continue to wind it by that stuff [TS]

00:21:51   but I think you get the gist of it [TS]

00:21:52   that's so although everyone else was [TS]

00:21:55   happy that this review came out and I [TS]

00:21:56   was happy to it was difficult experience [TS]

00:21:58   for me they usually are difficult but I [TS]

00:22:00   always felt better knowing that I [TS]

00:22:02   quickly responded to them ah the web [TS]

00:22:05   version could be up-to-date and it would [TS]

00:22:07   be good and I could just tell people oh [TS]

00:22:08   I fix that reload right right now I [TS]

00:22:10   can't say that anymore all these people [TS]

00:22:11   are reading the Kindle version which I [TS]

00:22:13   appreciate that [TS]

00:22:14   than buying even though even though I [TS]

00:22:15   said that's not the way I would want to [TS]

00:22:17   read it that's that's me [TS]

00:22:19   if people if other people want to read [TS]

00:22:21   it on their Kindle or instapaper or in [TS]

00:22:23   readability or however that they want to [TS]

00:22:25   read it I'm happy to let them do that [TS]

00:22:27   and ours I think is great by offering [TS]

00:22:29   like every possible way you can imagine [TS]

00:22:31   to read this you want to read in iBooks [TS]

00:22:32   there's you know a way to do it so [TS]

00:22:34   subscribe to ours download the ePub [TS]

00:22:36   loaded into iBooks you want to read it [TS]

00:22:38   on your Kindle we have a Kindle version [TS]

00:22:40   or under you on the web you can have in [TS]

00:22:41   the web your honor here on the web [TS]

00:22:42   single page you can read it on the web [TS]

00:22:43   single pages grabbed our well the only [TS]

00:22:45   you know there was one there was one [TS]

00:22:47   only missing chunk there was one way [TS]

00:22:48   missing carved on a little pyramid no [TS]

00:22:51   there's no audiobook version yeah and I [TS]

00:22:54   all tried to get ours to do podcast for [TS]

00:22:57   years I said hey you know I would do a [TS]

00:22:59   podcast where everyone to get the [TS]

00:23:01   podcast there is not into it there is [TS]

00:23:02   not into audio well listen it's [TS]

00:23:04   obviously because I offered to do an [TS]

00:23:06   audiobook reading of it for free and [TS]

00:23:08   donate all the proceeds to you yeah well [TS]

00:23:12   that what can I thought you're not into [TS]

00:23:14   it for whatever a little shame on them [TS]

00:23:16   and but I'll tell you what if they ever [TS]

00:23:18   want to do a podcast that they give us a [TS]

00:23:21   call we'd love to do it we'll skip we'll [TS]

00:23:23   get John set up with a real mic [TS]

00:23:25   everything yeah they're just not into [TS]

00:23:27   podcast period I don't I don't [TS]

00:23:29   understand what the deal is but you know [TS]

00:23:31   it's all tied up into their digital [TS]

00:23:33   content strategy maybe they have some [TS]

00:23:34   sort of audio plan maybe they're like [TS]

00:23:36   Apple like they're building something [TS]

00:23:37   huge and nobody's going to know about it [TS]

00:23:40   until it's really really awesome and [TS]

00:23:42   then they'll they'll strike big with it [TS]

00:23:44   yeah it could be our first sponsor today [TS]

00:23:47   is the Omni group makers of productivity [TS]

00:23:50   applications exclusively for Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:23:52   iPhone and iPad they're known for their [TS]

00:23:54   awesome software gold standard customer [TS]

00:23:56   support and palpable geekery well today [TS]

00:23:59   I'd like to tell you about their [TS]

00:24:00   brand-new release of Omni plan project [TS]

00:24:03   management made more painless features [TS]

00:24:06   things like enhanced collaboration smart [TS]

00:24:08   scheduling which enables users to [TS]

00:24:10   account for the variance in a schedule [TS]

00:24:12   of an individual resource or the project [TS]

00:24:14   as a whole this new version 2.0 supports [TS]

00:24:17   fiscal years in addition to calendar [TS]

00:24:19   years I mean all of the things that you [TS]

00:24:21   want to do when you're managing a [TS]

00:24:23   project this lets you do one of the [TS]

00:24:25   coolest things is what they call [TS]

00:24:27   enriched reefs or [TS]

00:24:28   allocation this provides the ability to [TS]

00:24:29   manage resource allocation for people [TS]

00:24:32   and tools and it even features a task [TS]

00:24:34   splitting tool that lets you divide the [TS]

00:24:36   time of a task to fit around specific [TS]

00:24:38   interruptions do they even have things [TS]

00:24:41   like hammock tasks what is that I don't [TS]

00:24:42   even know what that is but they have it [TS]

00:24:44   you've got all kinds of filters [TS]

00:24:46   baselines even improve printing options [TS]

00:24:49   because you know the project management [TS]

00:24:50   you need to print stuff it's just the [TS]

00:24:52   way it is you print it and now this is [TS]

00:24:54   completely optimized for the Mac [TS]

00:24:56   experience you've got headers and [TS]

00:24:57   footers that are more flexible these are [TS]

00:24:59   things you could give to your client if [TS]

00:25:01   you're working on a client project or [TS]

00:25:02   you can hand these things out of [TS]

00:25:04   meetings it actually is really pretty [TS]

00:25:05   cool if you've got to manage a product [TS]

00:25:07   and a project this is the absolute best [TS]

00:25:11   way to do it omni plan [TS]

00:25:12   so you just go to omni group comm you [TS]

00:25:16   can find out about this and of course [TS]

00:25:17   it's also available everywhere that you [TS]

00:25:20   would want to install Mac software so go [TS]

00:25:22   check them out so I'll start my my quiz [TS]

00:25:28   for you this is sort of the broad level [TS]

00:25:30   stuff this is one comment to the [TS]

00:25:34   comments thread on the article that I [TS]

00:25:36   like to read it's like a paragraph and I [TS]

00:25:40   wanted to well maybe I shouldn't poison [TS]

00:25:42   the waters by reading you this thing [TS]

00:25:44   first I should just tell you if you if [TS]

00:25:46   you rescue if you read the review what [TS]

00:25:49   would you say if you had to summarize [TS]

00:25:50   what Jon's are accuse the thought of [TS]

00:25:53   lying what would you say ah like overall [TS]

00:25:59   oh no not just like thumbs up thumbs [TS]

00:26:01   down but just like a one sentence [TS]

00:26:02   description you know I would say that [TS]

00:26:04   that you feel [TS]

00:26:06   gosh that's tough it really is tough [TS]

00:26:09   because I really got I really got mixed [TS]

00:26:12   a mixed vibe from you on the one hand I [TS]

00:26:14   mean you certainly did find a lot of [TS]

00:26:15   things to complain about but you also [TS]

00:26:19   seem to feel it was almost like it [TS]

00:26:23   generally I think of you as somebody [TS]

00:26:24   who's either neutral or pessimistic and [TS]

00:26:27   I feel like I wouldn't go so far say you [TS]

00:26:31   were optimistic about some things but [TS]

00:26:33   there is like I feel like there is just [TS]

00:26:35   a little tiny glimmer of hope in this [TS]

00:26:39   article that like maybe things will be [TS]

00:26:41   okay [TS]

00:26:42   I feel like overall you thought it was [TS]

00:26:46   it was it showed promise it was a worthy [TS]

00:26:49   worthy upgrade it's something that [TS]

00:26:51   assuming your apps are compatible it's [TS]

00:26:53   something you should do you actually you [TS]

00:26:56   know I was surprised and something I [TS]

00:26:57   wanted to talk to you about was that [TS]

00:26:58   some of the recommendations that you [TS]

00:27:00   made even even using things like file [TS]

00:27:03   vault aka hold disk encryption things [TS]

00:27:05   like that I have a list of things that [TS]

00:27:07   wanted to ask you about but I can't do I [TS]

00:27:09   don't know how could I do a $0.01 this I [TS]

00:27:11   think you liked it and I think that you [TS]

00:27:14   feel like it shows a lot of steps in the [TS]

00:27:17   right direction and seems to acknowledge [TS]

00:27:20   a lot of issues that that have been [TS]

00:27:23   there in Mac OS 10 it shows that Apple [TS]

00:27:25   is acknowledging them and at least [TS]

00:27:27   taking steps in the right direction [TS]

00:27:29   clearly there's some visual interface [TS]

00:27:31   things that you know GUI things that you [TS]

00:27:33   do not like but you know when you talk [TS]

00:27:36   about the improvements or the potential [TS]

00:27:39   for improvements to the file system you [TS]

00:27:42   talked about you know memory management [TS]

00:27:44   things like that these are these are [TS]

00:27:47   beefs that you've had for a long time [TS]

00:27:48   and they might not be addressed fully [TS]

00:27:50   but it looks like apples laying the [TS]

00:27:52   groundwork for some of them so I feel [TS]

00:27:54   like you're cautiously optimistic does [TS]

00:27:56   that sound fair see I thought you have a [TS]

00:27:59   similar thing into the one that beginner [TS]

00:28:01   I thought I was much more naked ly [TS]

00:28:02   optimistic than most people who read it [TS]

00:28:06   thank a man especially people who know [TS]

00:28:08   you know if you listen to hypercritical [TS]

00:28:09   you know I'm very critical things so let [TS]

00:28:13   me let me read you this dude's or [TS]

00:28:14   persons really wanna meet you dude it [TS]

00:28:17   says I like the factual parts of the [TS]

00:28:21   review so far but I stopped reading at [TS]

00:28:22   page 7 you know these people who stop [TS]

00:28:24   reading it's always some how many [TS]

00:28:25   because because I read this on mostly on [TS]

00:28:28   the Kindle I don't know what how many [TS]

00:28:29   pages it was so what is page 7 is that [TS]

00:28:31   that's like midway through maybe [TS]

00:28:32   continue why big much of it is opinion [TS]

00:28:36   and what I take from it 90 95 percent [TS]

00:28:38   negative I'm sorry John I know you put a [TS]

00:28:40   lot of time into this but so far this [TS]

00:28:42   has come across to me with the attitude [TS]

00:28:43   that you dislike change or something [TS]

00:28:45   different it reminds me when people [TS]

00:28:46   travel to other countries and complain [TS]

00:28:47   about the way things are done [TS]

00:28:48   differently and how it's wrong and how [TS]

00:28:50   it's bad no I didn't get that at all I [TS]

00:28:52   totally disagree with that person [TS]

00:28:55   and say now it goes on - that's that's [TS]

00:28:58   the meat of the thing like and when I [TS]

00:29:00   see people who say ah bleu cheese a lot [TS]

00:29:02   of complaining I'm like walking maybe [TS]

00:29:03   this is somebody who's never read [TS]

00:29:04   anything that I've written before and [TS]

00:29:06   doesn't realize that you know of course [TS]

00:29:07   it's gonna be complaints now you can do [TS]

00:29:09   it and you doesn't mean I don't like [TS]

00:29:10   something you know I'm gonna complain [TS]

00:29:12   about everything right in fact the more [TS]

00:29:15   I think something has the potential to [TS]

00:29:17   be great or the more it is great in [TS]

00:29:19   other ways the more I'm prone to [TS]

00:29:20   complain about the parts that aren't [TS]

00:29:21   right but the idea that I'm one of those [TS]

00:29:25   people who who is against all of these [TS]

00:29:29   changes and you kind of talked about it [TS]

00:29:31   - and some of people in the chat room [TS]

00:29:32   said you know that consumerization the [TS]

00:29:34   iOS if ocation of the thing dumbing it [TS]

00:29:38   down protecting users from themselves [TS]

00:29:40   you know hiding things that somehow I [TS]

00:29:44   was against that and I and it's because [TS]

00:29:48   I'm a tech nerd and should just accept [TS]

00:29:50   that's the way supposed to be on the [TS]

00:29:51   other side of the coin there were other [TS]

00:29:52   people in the comments thread at least [TS]

00:29:53   one other guy I should have said to out [TS]

00:29:55   this thing who's like in the ending [TS]

00:29:57   section when I said you know hey do you [TS]

00:29:59   know the width of you and that speed of [TS]

00:30:01   your bus or the size i'll do cash right [TS]

00:30:03   now blah blah he answered yes yes I knew [TS]

00:30:05   these things then I knew these things [TS]

00:30:06   now I know everything about everything [TS]

00:30:07   and Apple is dumbing things that I mean [TS]

00:30:10   you know there's always a guy like that [TS]

00:30:11   right I didn't respond to him someone [TS]

00:30:13   else in the comments that I respond to [TS]

00:30:14   him and said look you can't know [TS]

00:30:15   everything about everything you don't [TS]

00:30:16   know everything about you may think you [TS]

00:30:18   know a lot about your computer but you [TS]

00:30:19   know how you know how much doping there [TS]

00:30:20   is in the silicon in each transistor you [TS]

00:30:22   know what the you know the gate leakage [TS]

00:30:23   current is I mean nobody knows [TS]

00:30:25   everything about everything and ever [TS]

00:30:26   mind your car your desk the insulation [TS]

00:30:28   in your house your refrigerator what [TS]

00:30:30   what type of refrigerant is used in [TS]

00:30:32   refrigerator do you know if it's freon [TS]

00:30:34   or one of the other things or howhow [TS]

00:30:36   much voltage the compressor uses it [TS]

00:30:38   no-one knows everything about everything [TS]

00:30:39   it's impossible and that's just a [TS]

00:30:41   ridiculous argument so that's the other [TS]

00:30:42   side of the coin it seemed that as as I [TS]

00:30:45   seem to usually do getting complaints [TS]

00:30:47   from both sides the people who were in [TS]

00:30:49   favor of the changes in line we're [TS]

00:30:50   saying you were too critical of them [TS]

00:30:52   you're afraid of change you're afraid [TS]

00:30:53   they're dumbing things down you're an [TS]

00:30:54   enemy of progress and the people who [TS]

00:30:56   were against the changes were saying I [TS]

00:30:58   was too permissive and should have said [TS]

00:30:59   there's no way we should ever allow this [TS]

00:31:00   Apple should you know you should still [TS]

00:31:03   know everything about your computer and [TS]

00:31:05   everything Apple does to hide the [TS]

00:31:07   innards from you is worse [TS]

00:31:09   I thought I was pretty clear especially [TS]

00:31:10   in the conclusion that I am in favor of [TS]

00:31:13   this direction of removing things that [TS]

00:31:16   the user has to be concerned about you [TS]

00:31:18   know and I thought that came through [TS]

00:31:20   clearly but it's amazing to me that [TS]

00:31:21   people this is what happens I think [TS]

00:31:23   people read me explaining how things are [TS]

00:31:26   different like here's how it works in [TS]

00:31:27   line here's how used to work you know [TS]

00:31:28   and I do no comparison I said and here's [TS]

00:31:31   here's the philosophy behind it used to [TS]

00:31:33   be that X Y Z it could happen now with [TS]

00:31:35   these changes they're trying to aim for [TS]

00:31:36   a situation like this and here's how [TS]

00:31:39   iOS does that and it's showing that it's [TS]

00:31:41   actually possible to work like us so on [TS]

00:31:42   and so forth alright so treat that and [TS]

00:31:44   depending on how they felt about those [TS]

00:31:45   changes they would map those feelings [TS]

00:31:47   onto me as the others sure so they [TS]

00:31:49   didn't like the changes they'd be like [TS]

00:31:51   this author is describing all these [TS]

00:31:53   things and these things are obviously on [TS]

00:31:55   their face horrible therefore this [TS]

00:31:56   author who's just listed 20 horrible [TS]

00:31:58   things well so I have an analogy for you [TS]

00:32:01   John no and by the way I disagree with [TS]

00:32:04   that personal I'll tell you what I think [TS]

00:32:05   of that in a minute but here's an [TS]

00:32:07   analogy now I know that you're the [TS]

00:32:09   perfect husband I am I am NOT and I'm [TS]

00:32:13   married to a wonderful woman who's [TS]

00:32:15   incredibly patient but I and maybe this [TS]

00:32:20   is you know this is an invalid thing to [TS]

00:32:22   say but I think I think it's typical [TS]

00:32:24   that when people read this and they they [TS]

00:32:27   hear and remember the negative things [TS]

00:32:29   far more than they hear and remember or [TS]

00:32:33   see that the positive thing so for [TS]

00:32:34   example if for an entire week you [TS]

00:32:36   remember you know that when you come in [TS]

00:32:39   the house you take off your shoes and [TS]

00:32:40   you put them down in the right place you [TS]

00:32:42   know and the one day that you get home a [TS]

00:32:43   little early and you put them down in [TS]

00:32:45   the wrong place your wife walks in it [TS]

00:32:47   whether your shoes there for you know [TS]

00:32:49   that now I'm not saying that that [TS]

00:32:51   whatever you know happening in my house [TS]

00:32:53   but it's that kind of thing people [TS]

00:32:56   remember or notice the more negative [TS]

00:32:59   thing the thing you do you do wrong or [TS]

00:33:01   the thing that you're yes oh so if B [TS]

00:33:03   people were to read this and interpret [TS]

00:33:06   things the way that things that come [TS]

00:33:08   across as criticism versus the things [TS]

00:33:10   that come across as a a positive I think [TS]

00:33:16   I think they're going to feel like [TS]

00:33:17   there's more of the things that are [TS]

00:33:18   critical I what I did not do and maybe [TS]

00:33:21   this is because I feel like I know [TS]

00:33:22   and I know the way that that you think [TS]

00:33:25   of these things and I know that your [TS]

00:33:27   motive is to point things out so that [TS]

00:33:29   they they will be fixed or improved [TS]

00:33:31   right I feel like from my standpoint [TS]

00:33:35   that you were pretty you know cautiously [TS]

00:33:38   optimistic about it use it maybe use it [TS]

00:33:40   make idli optimistic I don't I don't [TS]

00:33:42   didn't get bad but you certainly were it [TS]

00:33:45   wasn't like scathing and I did not and [TS]

00:33:47   the key point of this I did not get the [TS]

00:33:49   impression that you're resisting change [TS]

00:33:51   I feel like you're welcoming change if [TS]

00:33:52   anything you're heralding it you you [TS]

00:33:54   want it as long as it's a change that [TS]

00:33:56   you feel is in the right direction and [TS]

00:33:58   my take on your definition of right [TS]

00:34:02   direction is something that is better at [TS]

00:34:06   communicating with the user making it [TS]

00:34:08   easy for the user to do things so like [TS]

00:34:10   one of the things you spent a long time [TS]

00:34:12   going over is you know you talk well [TS]

00:34:16   visit you didn't spend that much time [TS]

00:34:18   but you mentioned it a couple times and [TS]

00:34:19   that is that the the interface of line [TS]

00:34:23   continues in the direction of sort of I [TS]

00:34:26   don't know if this is the word but make [TS]

00:34:28   it makes everything monochrome the [TS]

00:34:30   monochromator zation of the interface so [TS]

00:34:34   that it puts the emphasis on the content [TS]

00:34:36   but you even mention that the folders [TS]

00:34:38   that have custom icons and you go to you [TS]

00:34:41   did a pretty funny example where you've [TS]

00:34:42   got these huge custom icons of like [TS]

00:34:44   Indiana Jones's hat and things like that [TS]

00:34:46   that are just simply not reflected in [TS]

00:34:49   the sidebar at all there can be no color [TS]

00:34:51   in the sidebar there can be no custom [TS]

00:34:53   folders in the sidebar like I get I get [TS]

00:34:56   the thinking behind that for Apple [TS]

00:34:58   because they really want the content to [TS]

00:34:59   stand out but there's also a value to [TS]

00:35:01   having a visual cue and things like that [TS]

00:35:03   so when you when you criticize those [TS]

00:35:05   things to me I don't feel like you're [TS]

00:35:07   resisting change you're saying something [TS]

00:35:09   that we used to have has been that that [TS]

00:35:12   was helpful to us has been taken away [TS]

00:35:14   and replaced with something that is not [TS]

00:35:15   as helpful to us and those are the every [TS]

00:35:18   single time I feel like that I saw a you [TS]

00:35:22   know you being negative or critical or [TS]

00:35:24   something that was the motivation behind [TS]

00:35:27   it it wasn't like I don't like this it's [TS]

00:35:29   different I didn't get that at all John [TS]

00:35:31   what I got was this is different and it [TS]

00:35:34   no longer effectively does this [TS]

00:35:36   it's it's gone and it's gotten worse and [TS]

00:35:38   that's why your did I nail that I mean [TS]

00:35:40   is that right is that that seems to be [TS]

00:35:41   like what you were thinking [TS]

00:35:42   yeah like two sometimes even in that [TS]

00:35:45   little section I remember the section [TS]

00:35:46   you're talking about if I had to expand [TS]

00:35:48   on that that's the good thing about a [TS]

00:35:49   podcast I can expand on things [TS]

00:35:50   extemporaneously if I expand on that [TS]

00:35:52   section why is it why is it better the [TS]

00:35:55   folders are great sometimes I don't say [TS]

00:35:56   things because I think that it's obvious [TS]

00:35:57   and then I realize it's totally not [TS]

00:35:59   obvious to everyone except for me and [TS]

00:36:01   three other people [TS]

00:36:02   I gave apples philosophy there about why [TS]

00:36:07   why the heck is everything the color [TS]

00:36:09   being drained out of everything and the [TS]

00:36:10   philosophy is focused on the content [TS]

00:36:11   don't draw attention to parts of the [TS]

00:36:14   interface because the interface is not [TS]

00:36:15   what's important we want the interfaces [TS]

00:36:16   disappear and the content to be king and [TS]

00:36:18   you see that a lot on the iPad and other [TS]

00:36:20   iOS things but the app fills the whole [TS]

00:36:22   screen right there's not a lot of like [TS]

00:36:23   Chrome and stuff like that but in the [TS]

00:36:25   finder if what our folders aren't [TS]

00:36:29   content what is the finder is for [TS]

00:36:31   dealing with files and folders right and [TS]

00:36:33   even though those finders are in the [TS]

00:36:34   sidebar that's you know if you want the [TS]

00:36:37   reason you're putting there is because [TS]

00:36:38   they're frequent destinations in there [TS]

00:36:40   places you want to go like that is [TS]

00:36:41   content for the finder it's not a frill [TS]

00:36:44   it's not I guess it is kind of part of [TS]

00:36:46   the interface but it's like if there's [TS]

00:36:47   one application where folders are [TS]

00:36:49   content its the finder what does the [TS]

00:36:51   finder do but manipulate content so that [TS]

00:36:54   that's an example of a philosophy which [TS]

00:36:56   I think is a reasonable philosophy you [TS]

00:36:58   can quibble all the execution you know [TS]

00:37:00   because it like you as you said you do [TS]

00:37:01   give up some things when you decide to [TS]

00:37:03   go this route you do give up [TS]

00:37:04   distinguishability or whatever term you [TS]

00:37:06   want to use for being able to pick stuff [TS]

00:37:07   out because it doesn't draw your eyes [TS]

00:37:09   now it also kind of blends but you know [TS]

00:37:12   but you could say that this is a [TS]

00:37:14   reasonable philosophy but applying it in [TS]

00:37:16   a blanket fashion has places where it [TS]

00:37:18   falls down and that one that I [TS]

00:37:19   highlighted is is one of them you know I [TS]

00:37:21   guess I should have expanded out today [TS]

00:37:24   you know folders are content in the [TS]

00:37:26   finder grab it is to get this is going a [TS]

00:37:28   step too far maybe I just wanted to make [TS]

00:37:31   a funny joke [TS]

00:37:33   but but anyway yeah that so the that I [TS]

00:37:36   think you're getting the right thing [TS]

00:37:38   from the review but I guess I guess [TS]

00:37:40   sometimes I'm reading over the little [TS]

00:37:42   ending bit that I put in there I guess [TS]

00:37:44   sometimes I'm daring the reader to be on [TS]

00:37:46   the same page as me I I realize I do [TS]

00:37:48   kind of say things that can be [TS]

00:37:50   in both ways because it's kind of as [TS]

00:37:54   someone said in the chatroom a Rorschach [TS]

00:37:56   test for the reader that I want to say [TS]

00:37:59   something that both sides of whatever [TS]

00:38:03   continuum of disagreement there is on [TS]

00:38:06   this issue can believe is either [TS]

00:38:08   affirming or opposing their point of [TS]

00:38:09   view so let me read the final paragraph [TS]

00:38:11   of the review here great up over the [TS]

00:38:14   past decade better technology simply [TS]

00:38:16   reduce the number of things that we need [TS]

00:38:18   to care about line is better technology [TS]

00:38:20   it marks the point where Mac os10 [TS]

00:38:22   releases stop being defined by what's [TS]

00:38:23   been added now on Mac OS 10 should be [TS]

00:38:25   judged by what's been removed now [TS]

00:38:27   there's a middle part in there that I [TS]

00:38:29   think again lays things bare lion is [TS]

00:38:32   better technology that's pretty [TS]

00:38:33   unambiguously almost entirely [TS]

00:38:36   unambiguously positive I'm you know what [TS]

00:38:38   I mean like account it's real friend [TS]

00:38:41   especially for a person like you but how [TS]

00:38:42   much more positive would you want to be [TS]

00:38:45   on that I agree with for this time I [TS]

00:38:47   really agree with you I agree man you [TS]

00:38:49   know so it's saying better technology [TS]

00:38:51   and then it's I had previously defined [TS]

00:38:53   better technology in the earlier [TS]

00:38:54   sentence by saying is reducing the [TS]

00:38:55   number of things we had to care about [TS]

00:38:56   which is the exact sentence I brought up [TS]

00:38:58   earlier in the review as well I think [TS]

00:39:00   even in italics at that point and then [TS]

00:39:02   the bit about releases stop being [TS]

00:39:05   defined by what's been added it's kind [TS]

00:39:06   of like in all the past reviews is like [TS]

00:39:07   what have you brought me all right this [TS]

00:39:09   time machine additives expose has been [TS]

00:39:10   added or you know this is metal things [TS]

00:39:13   there's a new application you know what [TS]

00:39:15   what are what are the check boxes on the [TS]

00:39:17   back of the box that tell me this is the [TS]

00:39:19   thing that I want to upgrade to because [TS]

00:39:21   it's got all these great new features [TS]

00:39:22   you know and Snow Leopard kind of being [TS]

00:39:25   like a fizzle off on that point where [TS]

00:39:26   it's like no more check boxes same OS [TS]

00:39:29   you had before more or less we changed [TS]

00:39:30   the internals right but oh that was [TS]

00:39:32   acknowledged as a break but now lion was [TS]

00:39:34   like not only we're not adding stuff [TS]

00:39:36   we're taking stuff away not taking away [TS]

00:39:38   features so much as things that were [TS]

00:39:41   associated with the desktop computing [TS]

00:39:42   experience that we think don't have a [TS]

00:39:44   place in the future we're going to [TS]

00:39:47   remove them from the experience and [TS]

00:39:50   examples are like saving documents or [TS]

00:39:52   remembering what things you opened or [TS]

00:39:54   eventually you know dealing directly [TS]

00:39:55   with the file system and stuff like that [TS]

00:39:57   and the bit of the MRI said macro [TS]

00:39:59   tension should be judged by what's been [TS]

00:40:01   removed for now [TS]

00:40:02   right the people who don't like that the [TS]

00:40:06   people who say you're dumbing down my [TS]

00:40:07   computer you know I don't want a VCR I [TS]

00:40:10   want a congenital purpose computer that [TS]

00:40:11   I can do stuff with VCR mandating myself [TS]

00:40:15   those people said yeah they're taking [TS]

00:40:18   away stuff they're saying should be [TS]

00:40:19   judged by what's removed and they should [TS]

00:40:20   be judged harshly for everything they [TS]

00:40:22   remove like I you would not believe the [TS]

00:40:23   number of people I got who came to me [TS]

00:40:25   saying you know or said out on the [TS]

00:40:29   internet you know googling myself and [TS]

00:40:30   finding the links to it that you know [TS]

00:40:32   he's saying the Mac was ten should be [TS]

00:40:33   judged by what's been removed it's it's [TS]

00:40:34   a warning call be vigilant people every [TS]

00:40:36   time Apple remove something we have to [TS]

00:40:38   yell about it John is saying you know [TS]

00:40:40   judge them on what they removed no it's [TS]

00:40:42   not what I'm saying [TS]

00:40:43   I am is the opposite I think I'm for all [TS]

00:40:46   the things that they finding in the [TS]

00:40:47   desktop operating system experience [TS]

00:40:49   things that we accept people who have [TS]

00:40:51   grown up with pcs except as part of what [TS]

00:40:53   it means to use a computer that are [TS]

00:40:55   bogus that are the only reason we like [TS]

00:40:58   them is because we've grown up using [TS]

00:40:59   them but they have no place in you know [TS]

00:41:02   they have no purpose other than you know [TS]

00:41:04   it's like I don't know what the analogy [TS]

00:41:05   is for a class of old cars it's like [TS]

00:41:07   cranking the engine before you start it [TS]

00:41:09   or whatever other thing you used to have [TS]

00:41:11   to do that you don't have to do now [TS]

00:41:12   right it's it's not part of the thing [TS]

00:41:15   you're doing with the computer it's part [TS]

00:41:16   of dealing with the computer and the [TS]

00:41:19   ones they removes are such no-brainers [TS]

00:41:21   because it's like it's not like they're [TS]

00:41:22   speculatively saying we think people can [TS]

00:41:24   get along without saving just fine [TS]

00:41:25   there's this millions of iOS devices out [TS]

00:41:28   there none of them have a Save button [TS]

00:41:29   and they're in their interfaces right [TS]

00:41:31   and no one ever then said a peep about [TS]

00:41:34   it BG I like this iPad app but if it had [TS]

00:41:36   a Save button I'd like it way better [TS]

00:41:38   nobody has ever said that right universe [TS]

00:41:41   right or or their phone applications or [TS]

00:41:43   anything like that and it's not like you [TS]

00:41:44   know there's text editors or the phone [TS]

00:41:45   Simplenote you know the stuff like that [TS]

00:41:47   there's graphics applications or people [TS]

00:41:49   doing paintings for the cover of The New [TS]

00:41:50   Yorker with iOS applications those [TS]

00:41:53   people like this painting ablation is [TS]

00:41:54   great but I've had a Save button I'd [TS]

00:41:56   really like a lot better you know and [TS]

00:41:58   most iOS applications don't even have [TS]

00:41:59   the things that line is bring with the [TS]

00:42:01   versioning built in and be able to [TS]

00:42:02   revert at any time the most they maybe [TS]

00:42:04   have is a big undo history and maybe a [TS]

00:42:06   revert to last version that you know [TS]

00:42:09   that from an hour ago or something about [TS]

00:42:11   it you know it's I don't use enough [TS]

00:42:13   applications that are sort of document [TS]

00:42:14   based and Iowa [TS]

00:42:15   to know what people do beyond the [TS]

00:42:18   standard thing and the standard thing is [TS]

00:42:20   everything is automatically saved you [TS]

00:42:22   know the notes application mail Twitter [TS]

00:42:25   application you're in the middle right [TS]

00:42:26   tweet whatever you know I'm in the [TS]

00:42:27   middle of writing tweet all the time I [TS]

00:42:28   hit the home button boom I don't even [TS]

00:42:30   have an iPod with multitasking my iPod [TS]

00:42:32   Touch can't even run the multitasking [TS]

00:42:34   but if I'm in the middle of writing a [TS]

00:42:35   tweet and I have to get a URL from [TS]

00:42:36   somewhere or check my mail for something [TS]

00:42:38   is I have to wanna finish this wait I [TS]

00:42:40   hit the home button when I launch my [TS]

00:42:41   application that partially written tweet [TS]

00:42:43   is still there I never think all with it [TS]

00:42:45   needs to be save button on this tweet or [TS]

00:42:47   something like that you know the iOS is [TS]

00:42:49   a real world working example of almost [TS]

00:42:52   every single thing that they put into [TS]

00:42:54   line showing that it does work but [TS]

00:42:56   because the context of people's brains [TS]

00:42:58   are different when they're in front of [TS]

00:42:59   their Mac then in front of iOS these [TS]

00:43:01   same people who accepted this completely [TS]

00:43:02   with iOS and are saying you can't you [TS]

00:43:04   have to have manual saving because it's [TS]

00:43:05   impossible for me to work the way I [TS]

00:43:07   normally work and you know that's not [TS]

00:43:08   what they say what they say this isn't [TS]

00:43:10   it's impossible you can't you need to [TS]

00:43:11   have save you can't have it [TS]

00:43:12   automatically saving it's gonna screw [TS]

00:43:14   everybody up it's going to make me lose [TS]

00:43:15   data but they're really saying is that [TS]

00:43:16   they have habits built up over decades [TS]

00:43:18   of how you use the desktop computer and [TS]

00:43:21   how you interact with is different [TS]

00:43:22   saving but as I tried to point out in [TS]

00:43:23   the review it's a failed experiment you [TS]

00:43:26   know even the best of us even the people [TS]

00:43:28   in imarco talked about in his recent [TS]

00:43:30   episode too you even even the people who [TS]

00:43:31   know this the current system or the pre [TS]

00:43:34   line system inside and out even we screw [TS]

00:43:36   up sometimes right and forget about [TS]

00:43:38   regular people they screw up constantly [TS]

00:43:40   they simply cannot map that model that [TS]

00:43:43   the computer is using for data retention [TS]

00:43:45   on to the way their mental model they [TS]

00:43:48   think how it should work and those same [TS]

00:43:49   people have no problem with iOS because [TS]

00:43:51   then finally their mental model matches [TS]

00:43:52   how the thing does they just don't think [TS]

00:43:54   about saving it goes away right lion is [TS]

00:43:57   trying to do that on the mac and running [TS]

00:43:59   into people's pre-existing notions of [TS]

00:44:02   how computing to work now I thought that [TS]

00:44:04   was crystal clear that I am for ditching [TS]

00:44:06   these things maybe gonna hung up on the [TS]

00:44:08   part where I said like the parts that [TS]

00:44:10   work on iOS that are sort of that don't [TS]

00:44:14   work when you bring them over to the Mac [TS]

00:44:15   or that have disadvantages like that the [TS]

00:44:18   value proposition is different saving [TS]

00:44:21   and restore and stuff I don't think is [TS]

00:44:22   one of those issues I think that's [TS]

00:44:23   simply an issue of inertia and people [TS]

00:44:25   being used to the way things work and I [TS]

00:44:27   think we will all be much better off [TS]

00:44:29   once we can [TS]

00:44:29   humph hiding the scrollbars and stuff [TS]

00:44:31   like that they're serious trade-offs [TS]

00:44:33   there and you even noted I was glad to [TS]

00:44:34   hear you I think it was on the talk show [TS]

00:44:35   talking about how you'd be staring into [TS]

00:44:37   line screen and take a couple seconds to [TS]

00:44:39   realize that there's more content ya [TS]

00:44:40   know that happened that happened a lot [TS]

00:44:42   and it it's not happening now but I find [TS]

00:44:45   that I'm scrolling when I don't you're [TS]

00:44:48   buying it you're pulling it things to [TS]

00:44:50   see if there's more stuff right you're [TS]

00:44:52   mapping imagine if you did that in real [TS]

00:44:54   life yeah like you know I mean it's not [TS]

00:44:57   see that's the type of situation where [TS]

00:44:58   it's a clear trade off like you're you [TS]

00:45:00   are sacrificing the ability to know at a [TS]

00:45:02   glance that there's more stuff with 100% [TS]

00:45:04   certainty now if it's something [TS]

00:45:06   truncated on the bottom you can suspect [TS]

00:45:07   but what you want to find most people [TS]

00:45:10   will be replacing it with is the palling [TS]

00:45:12   notion let me just check this more let [TS]

00:45:14   me just check it and maybe that's fine [TS]

00:45:15   maybe that's you know instead of [TS]

00:45:16   glancing with your eyes you pull out it [TS]

00:45:17   with your fingers you do that in iOS [TS]

00:45:20   apps all the time because of course they [TS]

00:45:21   have the same problem but on iOS like I [TS]

00:45:22   said in the article that trade-off has [TS]

00:45:24   very different it it you know ways [TS]

00:45:28   differently on the things that you're [TS]

00:45:29   creating off there especially on the [TS]

00:45:30   phone look you just got you can't have [TS]

00:45:32   that scrollbar there [TS]

00:45:33   you just can't there's no room on the [TS]

00:45:34   screen you absolutely have to ditch it [TS]

00:45:36   and so they did the best they could well [TS]

00:45:38   where it appears and dissapears and [TS]

00:45:39   stuff like that right but a 30 inch [TS]

00:45:40   display that trade-off is you know maybe [TS]

00:45:44   not great you know and maybe you don't [TS]

00:45:47   want to replace polling with with that [TS]

00:45:49   type situation on a thirty inch display [TS]

00:45:52   on the 11 inch air starts to as I said [TS]

00:45:53   the closer the Mac gets to an iOS device [TS]

00:45:56   the more or the iOS trade-offs start to [TS]

00:45:59   make sense in that context I didn't talk [TS]

00:46:02   about this in review of one of my fears [TS]

00:46:03   is that so in line they have obviously [TS]

00:46:06   options to reverse almost all these [TS]

00:46:08   things and you're always wondering I [TS]

00:46:11   think Gruber talked about this too so [TS]

00:46:14   those options are there now but do they [TS]

00:46:15   all go away in the next version and if [TS]

00:46:17   they go away do they stick with which [TS]

00:46:19   way are they which way they toggle [TS]

00:46:20   permanently right so the scroll bars you [TS]

00:46:23   can say automatically based on input [TS]

00:46:24   device the idea being that if you don't [TS]

00:46:26   have a touch device the trade-off is [TS]

00:46:29   probably I mean Apple is basically [TS]

00:46:31   saying with it with that thing [TS]

00:46:32   automatically based on device if you [TS]

00:46:34   don't have a touch based device it's not [TS]

00:46:35   worth the trade-off you should always [TS]

00:46:36   see the scroll bars alright because if [TS]

00:46:38   you have a mouse attached but no touch [TS]

00:46:39   device Apple defaults and that auto mode [TS]

00:46:42   showing the scrollbars so what's going [TS]

00:46:46   to be say say that option those radio [TS]

00:46:49   buttons go away in the next version what [TS]

00:46:50   happens is automatic the default is [TS]

00:46:53   always showing the default is you know [TS]

00:46:55   how do they go with that and the the [TS]

00:46:58   usual notion is whatever the defaults [TS]

00:46:59   are in Lyon that will be the permanent [TS]

00:47:01   setting in whatever comes after Lyon and [TS]

00:47:05   it's probably true in most cases but in [TS]

00:47:08   the case of like for the doc indicator [TS]

00:47:10   lights is a good example they reverse [TS]

00:47:12   that the last second why I obviously [TS]

00:47:14   wanted them to be off and they put the [TS]

00:47:17   option in there so really pro users [TS]

00:47:18   wouldn't car as I'm sorry I don't care [TS]

00:47:21   what the heck the default is if I want [TS]

00:47:22   the little lights I'll turn them on up [TS]

00:47:24   they don't turn them off pro users love [TS]

00:47:26   options they say if they can't get [TS]

00:47:28   worked up about they can say all right [TS]

00:47:29   so fine that the default it's off but [TS]

00:47:31   you know I make maybe that screws up [TS]

00:47:33   their friends and relatives and it makes [TS]

00:47:35   their tech support more difficult [TS]

00:47:36   they'll complain about it a little bit [TS]

00:47:37   but as far as they're concerned I hope I [TS]

00:47:39   could turn off I said it once I never [TS]

00:47:40   think of it again and I'm fine but they [TS]

00:47:44   Apple itself reverses decision and I [TS]

00:47:45   guess that is said look that's not a [TS]

00:47:47   good default right now it leads to too [TS]

00:47:49   much confusion people can't tell what's [TS]

00:47:50   running and as much as we want them not [TS]

00:47:52   to have to care like they do on iOS the [TS]

00:47:54   reality is we're not there yet so turn [TS]

00:47:56   them on by default which is kind of [TS]

00:47:58   weird because if you think about it you [TS]

00:47:59   know they added this feature and left [TS]

00:48:00   this checkbox but who in their right [TS]

00:48:02   mind is going to turn that off as pro [TS]

00:48:04   users aren't going to turn it off [TS]

00:48:05   because they like the old way and [TS]

00:48:06   they're used to knowing you know what's [TS]

00:48:07   running and what's not and novice users [TS]

00:48:09   always leave the defaults so when the [TS]

00:48:12   world's going to turn those dots off [TS]

00:48:13   accepted some sort of weird experiment [TS]

00:48:14   or maybe a few people who are saying [TS]

00:48:16   it's freeing not to know which ones [TS]

00:48:17   running I just like it better I don't [TS]

00:48:20   know that so in terms of my overall view [TS]

00:48:26   of Lyon I'm for almost every single one [TS]

00:48:29   of the things that they're trying to do [TS]

00:48:31   with the OS I may be against the details [TS]

00:48:33   of the execution and quibble over some [TS]

00:48:37   things that don't work as well in in [TS]

00:48:39   several desktop contexts but in in the [TS]

00:48:42   camp of people who who like you know [TS]

00:48:44   autosave is the best litmus test because [TS]

00:48:46   it's like people who cannot conceive of [TS]

00:48:48   because they're so used to doing things [TS]

00:48:50   the way they normally do with saving [TS]

00:48:51   they cannot conceive of ever operating [TS]

00:48:54   in the environment where autosave exists [TS]

00:48:56   I'm I'm not in that camp I I I'm exactly [TS]

00:48:59   with them in terms of habits and that [TS]

00:49:00   all my habits are honed on manual saving [TS]

00:49:04   but I can totally see how the other way [TS]

00:49:07   is better [TS]

00:49:07   mostly because I accept how I operate an [TS]

00:49:09   iOS and how problem-free it is there [TS]

00:49:12   that that can work on the desktop and [TS]

00:49:13   because I've had transitional apps like [TS]

00:49:15   BBEdit which is done almost all these [TS]

00:49:16   things for four years now and I it has [TS]

00:49:19   sort of eased me into this way of [TS]

00:49:21   working [TS]

00:49:21   I still manually save like crazy and VB [TS]

00:49:24   edit and I'm still bet glad BBI makes [TS]

00:49:25   little backups but the restore thing and [TS]

00:49:28   the fact that BBEdit auto saves almost [TS]

00:49:29   everything for you so the app crashes [TS]

00:49:31   and you relaunch it you're partially [TS]

00:49:32   edited to work still there you know I [TS]

00:49:36   see I see that the other way can be [TS]

00:49:39   better and is better and it's going to [TS]

00:49:41   take other people a while to see that [TS]

00:49:42   and as I think I tried to point out in [TS]

00:49:44   the review this is going to be this [TS]

00:49:46   uncomfortable transition period because [TS]

00:49:48   it's not like this is another thing that [TS]

00:49:50   I should have expressed more clearly [TS]

00:49:52   lots of people still think even after [TS]

00:49:53   reading my review that you upgrade to [TS]

00:49:55   line all your apps get these magic new [TS]

00:49:57   abilities well they have you have to [TS]

00:49:58   change the apps you know that you have [TS]

00:50:01   to get updated versions the apps [TS]

00:50:02   developers have to change them that's [TS]

00:50:03   going to be a long time before that [TS]

00:50:05   happens [TS]

00:50:06   and so there's going to be a big long [TS]

00:50:08   uncomfortable transition period but what [TS]

00:50:10   can you do you have to get from there to [TS]

00:50:11   here iOS had it easy because they could [TS]

00:50:13   come day one and say this is the way IRS [TS]

00:50:15   works there's no Save button it's just [TS]

00:50:17   the way it is you can't tell what's [TS]

00:50:18   running and what's not that's just the [TS]

00:50:20   way this is how we implemented [TS]

00:50:21   multitasking there is no before this [TS]

00:50:22   there was no multitasking and then this [TS]

00:50:24   is how multitasking works well you don't [TS]

00:50:26   have that option on the Mac it has a [TS]

00:50:28   long long history and we're going to [TS]

00:50:29   have to take a long time to sort of wake [TS]

00:50:32   up from that history into the lovely new [TS]

00:50:35   age our second sponsor today is harvest [TS]

00:50:39   it's a time tracking and invoicing [TS]

00:50:41   web-based application serving the most [TS]

00:50:43   creative and innovative businesses in [TS]

00:50:45   over 100 countries worldwide maybe yours [TS]

00:50:47   is one of them it should be it's a [TS]

00:50:50   really fast way to track time and keep [TS]

00:50:51   track of project budgets see we're all [TS]

00:50:53   talking all about projects today is [TS]

00:50:54   let's you send your clients beautiful [TS]

00:50:57   professional invoices via email PDF or [TS]

00:50:59   on the web you can accept credit cards [TS]

00:51:02   you can check you get check payments and [TS]

00:51:03   there's even a free companion iPhone and [TS]

00:51:06   Android app this is the cool thing if [TS]

00:51:07   you're out on the go and you want to [TS]

00:51:09   track your expense [TS]

00:51:09   as you can and I love this you can take [TS]

00:51:12   pictures of receipts and upload them [TS]

00:51:13   straight into the app how cool is that [TS]

00:51:15   it integrates with Google Apps it [TS]

00:51:17   integrates with Basecamp and you can try [TS]

00:51:19   it free for 30 days and in that time I [TS]

00:51:21   guarantee you will realize that it will [TS]

00:51:23   help you work better and help you grow [TS]

00:51:25   your business they don't make you give a [TS]

00:51:26   credit card there's no obligation or [TS]

00:51:29   anything like that you just go to get [TS]

00:51:31   harvest comm slash 5x5 get it go there [TS]

00:51:34   and you'll sign up for a free 30-day [TS]

00:51:36   trial now when the trial period is [TS]

00:51:38   running out there's a code here five by [TS]

00:51:41   five T V you enter that a checkout and [TS]

00:51:44   you'll get 50% off your first month and [TS]

00:51:47   that expires September 1st 2011 so go [TS]

00:51:51   check them out [TS]

00:51:53   get harvest comm slash 5x5 that was my [TS]

00:51:57   geek panic thing that's but again I [TS]

00:51:59   don't I don't think it's ambiguous when [TS]

00:52:00   I did a geek panic thing like it was [TS]

00:52:02   acknowledging that when I use that exact [TS]

00:52:06   phrase with an exclamation point that I [TS]

00:52:08   understand that you like me as a geek [TS]

00:52:10   are going to freak out when you hear [TS]

00:52:12   this because this is not the way it has [TS]

00:52:13   worked for decades and you can't do that [TS]

00:52:16   what are you talking about you're gonna [TS]

00:52:17   the OS is gonna quit my application just [TS]

00:52:20   because the windows are visible what if [TS]

00:52:21   I was using it or I'm gonna quit the [TS]

00:52:23   application but it's not gonna kill the [TS]

00:52:25   process I quit the application because [TS]

00:52:26   I'm one of those resources back for the [TS]

00:52:28   OS you can't MIT you know it's just it's [TS]

00:52:30   geek panic and it's I don't know is that [TS]

00:52:34   analogous like red panic I don't know [TS]

00:52:35   there's some sort of history based [TS]

00:52:37   analogy of this type of thing but I was [TS]

00:52:38   trying to be cheeky about it to say this [TS]

00:52:40   is sort of an irrational unfounded fear [TS]

00:52:42   this is just progress and it's going to [TS]

00:52:44   be weird for us but I think they're [TS]

00:52:47   going in the right direction [TS]

00:52:48   even if they're you know even if it's [TS]

00:52:52   weird in the transition and even if [TS]

00:52:53   maybe they go too far in a couple of [TS]

00:52:54   cases you know someone brought up in the [TS]

00:52:57   chat room something we want to talk [TS]

00:52:59   about that was also mentioned on a talk [TS]

00:53:00   show was a launch pad as the finder [TS]

00:53:03   replacement I didn't talk about that in [TS]

00:53:06   the review but I had that's another one [TS]

00:53:08   of the things I had stewing in my mind [TS]

00:53:10   like in the flashback under Sections [TS]

00:53:13   episode depressed these days you know [TS]

00:53:15   it's like what else is there to say but [TS]

00:53:17   I've done all my complaining about the [TS]

00:53:18   finder every release they do some subtle [TS]

00:53:21   tweak to it they made it cocoa which was [TS]

00:53:23   better [TS]

00:53:24   make the performance better they do some [TS]

00:53:25   annoying things we do some things that I [TS]

00:53:27   like but it's it's just kind of there [TS]

00:53:29   there's not that much interested and you [TS]

00:53:32   know it's just like oh they can't get [TS]

00:53:33   rid of the finder do they want us not [TS]

00:53:34   use it with iCloud they don't even want [TS]

00:53:36   your documents to be anyplace you can [TS]

00:53:37   find them because they'll be buried in [TS]

00:53:38   the library folder they make the library [TS]

00:53:39   holder invisible so it's like forget [TS]

00:53:42   about the documents for they were [TS]

00:53:43   literally hiding them from you the [TS]

00:53:45   mobile documents folders were my cloud [TS]

00:53:47   shows stuff and that's actually in your [TS]

00:53:48   library folder so they'll be literally [TS]

00:53:49   invisible in the finder so you know is [TS]

00:53:51   that where Apple's eventually going do [TS]

00:53:52   they think the base of the computer like [TS]

00:53:56   it is on iOS should be springboard or [TS]

00:53:57   something similar to springboard like [TS]

00:53:58   Launchpad where it's just a bunch of [TS]

00:54:00   applications and you launch them and [TS]

00:54:03   that's that's the bottom level the [TS]

00:54:05   operating system and no dealing directly [TS]

00:54:06   with a file system [TS]

00:54:07   I'm sure Apple would love to do that [TS]

00:54:09   some people at Apple would love to do [TS]

00:54:10   that I'm sure other people at Apple [TS]

00:54:12   would never let that happen so I think [TS]

00:54:14   as Gruber pointed out because he [TS]

00:54:16   probably has talked to a lot of our [TS]

00:54:17   people as have I that Apple is not [TS]

00:54:20   monolithic and inside Apple almost every [TS]

00:54:23   change that some geek doesn't like in [TS]

00:54:24   line was opposed by a large faction to [TS]

00:54:26   people inside Apple who didn't like it [TS]

00:54:28   whether it be removing the scroll bars [TS]

00:54:30   reversing a scroll direction you know [TS]

00:54:33   high in the library folder every single [TS]

00:54:37   one of those changes I guarantee you [TS]

00:54:39   there are not just like one or two [TS]

00:54:40   grumpy guys but large sections of inside [TS]

00:54:43   Apple who were against it and in large [TS]

00:54:44   sections who were for it and it was a [TS]

00:54:45   battle and you can see who ended up [TS]

00:54:47   winning in all the various cases but [TS]

00:54:49   Apple is not monolithically in favor of [TS]

00:54:52   everything that you see in the operating [TS]

00:54:54   system because it's filled with geeks it [TS]

00:54:56   you know you think you're filled with [TS]

00:54:56   geeks who are used to the way that yeah [TS]

00:55:00   Apple and Macs have worked for decades [TS]

00:55:02   there's a lot of them in Apple as you [TS]

00:55:03   can imagine and so they were against [TS]

00:55:05   this stuff too uh I think they did the [TS]

00:55:07   brave thing in the correct thing by [TS]

00:55:09   going in the direction of progress I [TS]

00:55:11   think all the uncharacteristic sort of [TS]

00:55:13   backpedaling with the options it's like [TS]

00:55:15   turning on and off was a stopped for the [TS]

00:55:17   opposition camp because opposition kept [TS]

00:55:20   you can say look we're going to go with [TS]

00:55:21   this is the fall but everyone knows that [TS]

00:55:22   you guys are power users so you guys [TS]

00:55:24   will don't be too pissed off you can [TS]

00:55:26   just check this checkbox and reverse it [TS]

00:55:27   the real battle will probably come in [TS]

00:55:29   the next version like maybe this is a [TS]

00:55:30   wedge issue where the people on one side [TS]

00:55:32   of the cell be able just put it in will [TS]

00:55:33   put an option and the next version comes [TS]

00:55:34   they're going to want to take away the [TS]

00:55:36   option and then the other [TS]

00:55:37   I'm gonna say you can't take away the [TS]

00:55:38   option I always have it in that mode and [TS]

00:55:39   we had this big fight about this with [TS]

00:55:41   Lyon and we decided the option was [TS]

00:55:42   important so we continued to work and [TS]

00:55:44   then unfortunately by that point the you [TS]

00:55:47   know Pro progress camp will have numbers [TS]

00:55:49   to say well 90% of our X millions of [TS]

00:55:52   users use this as a default and we have [TS]

00:55:53   metrics to show that you know they're [TS]

00:55:55   perfectly happy with it so we think this [TS]

00:55:57   is just be the default and you'll have [TS]

00:55:58   to deal with it maybe it becomes a [TS]

00:55:59   hidden plist hack at that point and [TS]

00:56:00   maybe disappears entirely yeah that's [TS]

00:56:04   when we talked about it for us the price [TS]

00:56:06   of progress sometimes it hurts so that [TS]

00:56:10   that long rambling thing all about sort [TS]

00:56:13   of my overall view of Lyon I got that [TS]

00:56:15   pretty much covers that there are [TS]

00:56:18   specific sections or specific issues you [TS]

00:56:20   want to talk about should dive into them [TS]

00:56:22   well one one thing that I think I [TS]

00:56:24   certainly was wondering when I was [TS]

00:56:25   reading this and I have to assume if I [TS]

00:56:28   was wondering it there's a handful of [TS]

00:56:29   listeners that were probably also [TS]

00:56:31   wondering this how are you using it well [TS]

00:56:33   you know when you took these screenshots [TS]

00:56:35   and talked about the settings you i [TS]

00:56:38   unless i'm remembering it wrong i [TS]

00:56:40   couldn't find anywhere where you said [TS]

00:56:43   and by the way this is what I'm doing [TS]

00:56:44   like whether it comes to scrolling [TS]

00:56:47   direction you know whether you allow it [TS]

00:56:51   to you know whether whether you have the [TS]

00:56:54   little application active lights on in [TS]

00:56:56   the dock tell me about that I mean of [TS]

00:56:58   the main points that you can recall off [TS]

00:57:00   the top of your head how do you do it [TS]

00:57:02   what's what's John's machine like that's [TS]

00:57:05   a good that's a good topic to bring out [TS]

00:57:06   because it ties into another thing that [TS]

00:57:09   people frequently ask me despite the [TS]

00:57:11   fact that I do these big long news I [TS]

00:57:13   almost never I can't I don't remember [TS]

00:57:16   maybe with ten one I almost never [TS]

00:57:17   upgrade my own personal main system to [TS]

00:57:20   the new operating system on the day it's [TS]

00:57:23   released almost never I can't even maybe [TS]

00:57:25   with ten one I did it but I can't even [TS]

00:57:28   think of anything back that so all the [TS]

00:57:29   time that I'm using the OS for review [TS]

00:57:31   purposes I'm using sort of mongrel [TS]

00:57:33   installations a lot of the time when I'm [TS]

00:57:35   reviewing what I want is an empty hard [TS]

00:57:37   drive clean install to see what that [TS]

00:57:39   experience is like because I learned [TS]

00:57:41   this early on what I what I used to do [TS]

00:57:43   is clone my regular hard drive install [TS]

00:57:45   on top of it and try it like that and [TS]

00:57:46   that's not a good way to review an [TS]

00:57:47   operating system because if you if I [TS]

00:57:49   used to have tons of stuff installed [TS]

00:57:51   still do have a lot of little tweaks if [TS]

00:57:52   there's some little thing about my P [TS]

00:57:53   system in particular or some piece of [TS]

00:57:55   software that I used it's screwing up [TS]

00:57:56   the experience hurting performance [TS]

00:57:58   making bugs that aren't really there [TS]

00:58:00   it's easy to erroneously blame that on [TS]

00:58:04   the operating system one really is the [TS]

00:58:05   fault of some weird piece of software [TS]

00:58:07   that I had installed or some peculiarity [TS]

00:58:09   of my thing so what I want to do most of [TS]

00:58:12   the time is have a clean install the [TS]

00:58:13   operating system like on an empty hard [TS]

00:58:15   drive so I can say this is the OS as it [TS]

00:58:17   exists because I want to separate that [TS]

00:58:19   from software compatibility issues [TS]

00:58:21   because those can be resolved like a [TS]

00:58:22   week after release if it's some trivial [TS]

00:58:24   little bug or you know people the [TS]

00:58:26   software gets updated right so I don't [TS]

00:58:28   want to slam an entire OS and I see [TS]

00:58:30   reviews of those all the time slamming [TS]

00:58:31   OS because it's not compatible as some [TS]

00:58:33   piece of software that happened to use [TS]

00:58:34   and they write this big angry review and [TS]

00:58:36   three weeks later that software is [TS]

00:58:37   updated that issue is gone so they just [TS]

00:58:39   wrote you know thousands of words [TS]

00:58:41   screaming about how horrible this OS is [TS]

00:58:43   for an issue that by the time most [TS]

00:58:44   people read this review doesn't no [TS]

00:58:46   longer exist right so I am almost always [TS]

00:58:49   reviewing a stock system and as I use it [TS]

00:58:52   I start to build it up to more like what [TS]

00:58:54   I'm like I could probably make this [TS]

00:58:56   easier but even now I could just all [TS]

00:58:57   right so I sign in with my mobile me [TS]

00:58:58   thing and I think I'm on these stuff and [TS]

00:59:00   I and I install Dropbox and I stick my [TS]

00:59:02   Dropbox files and I throw a few [TS]

00:59:03   applications over there and it starts to [TS]

00:59:04   become more my system right then I start [TS]

00:59:07   to use it then I start to see how I use [TS]

00:59:09   this when I eventually have grade my [TS]

00:59:11   main machine because that you know it [TS]

00:59:13   starts to look like my environment but [TS]

00:59:14   then I erase it install the next [TS]

00:59:15   developer build Nets process starts all [TS]

00:59:17   over again so I really don't have a good [TS]

00:59:18   idea really of how I'm going to actually [TS]

00:59:21   use it when I upgrade the line I have I [TS]

00:59:23   have a notion because I've used it long [TS]

00:59:25   enough and sort of as I start to [TS]

00:59:28   converge towards what my environment is [TS]

00:59:29   like but I've been wrong before like [TS]

00:59:33   I've used it you know for months and [TS]

00:59:34   months and developer seeds and say yeah [TS]

00:59:35   when I upgrade this I'm deathly going to [TS]

00:59:36   have this option in this direction and [TS]

00:59:38   then when it goes into my main machine [TS]

00:59:39   maybe it's because some other software I [TS]

00:59:41   have on a machine or like for example I [TS]

00:59:42   rarely install drag thing on my machines [TS]

00:59:45   that I'm testing with but I always have [TS]

00:59:46   it installed in my on my main machine [TS]

00:59:48   that changes of the way I'm going to set [TS]

00:59:50   my options so so for example the [TS]

00:59:53   scrollbar issue I went back and forth [TS]

00:59:55   and back and forth and that's so long in [TS]

00:59:58   the dev bills on [TS]

00:59:58   the dev bills on [TS]

01:00:00   normally on permanently off auto-detect [TS]

01:00:02   I actually bought a Magic Trackpad so I [TS]

01:00:03   would have like the full swipey right I [TS]

01:00:06   wondered if you did that yeah I bought [TS]

01:00:09   that way back when I actually bought on [TS]

01:00:10   eBay cos I couldn't bring myself to pay [TS]

01:00:11   whatever it is 70 bucks but I got a good [TS]

01:00:13   deal on one in eBay and of course I have [TS]

01:00:15   the laptop I was testing out so that as [TS]

01:00:17   a trackpad - you know the scroll bar [TS]

01:00:20   visibility at first I thought oh my [TS]

01:00:23   persons think was yeah how these on [TS]

01:00:24   permanently always on no no question [TS]

01:00:26   right then I used it more and more so I [TS]

01:00:29   left it in the auto detect or scroll [TS]

01:00:33   bars invisible mode to do screenshots [TS]

01:00:35   and stuff and the thing the thing that [TS]

01:00:39   happened to me that happens a lot of [TS]

01:00:40   other people - is you start - if you're [TS]

01:00:43   an athlete if you like how things look [TS]

01:00:45   all out of proportion to what benefit [TS]

01:00:48   you get from them looking nice if there [TS]

01:00:50   is less clutter on the screen right you [TS]

01:00:52   do get used to not seeing those scroll [TS]

01:00:56   bars and that's generally the thing the [TS]

01:00:58   Gruber pointed out is a great example [TS]

01:00:59   because for example in that newswire an [TS]

01:01:01   application that I always have open and [TS]

01:01:02   that I use all the time I work very hard [TS]

01:01:05   to keep my subscription list in the left [TS]

01:01:07   hand sidebar so that no scrollbar is [TS]

01:01:10   visible because the interface gets [TS]

01:01:12   uglier when the scroll bar is visible so [TS]

01:01:13   if I have to add another subscription I [TS]

01:01:15   have to find something else to stick [TS]

01:01:17   into a folder so that my subscriptions [TS]

01:01:18   don't go too long and extend past the [TS]

01:01:21   and make a scrollbar become visible but [TS]

01:01:23   if you have the scroll bars on you know [TS]

01:01:25   the invisible hidden overlay mode you [TS]

01:01:28   don't have to worry about that anymore [TS]

01:01:29   so this is sort of a rational probably [TS]

01:01:32   counterproductive habit of mine of [TS]

01:01:34   keeping that list of the scroll bars [TS]

01:01:35   invisible simply because I find the [TS]

01:01:37   scroll bar uglier goes away I and you [TS]

01:01:40   know you know it's it's removing some [TS]

01:01:42   mental clutter from from the O's my OCD [TS]

01:01:44   mind but it's not you know it's maybe [TS]

01:01:46   it's just being groupers but I don't [TS]

01:01:47   think it's just the two of us you know [TS]

01:01:48   he doesn't like it see that scrollbar [TS]

01:01:49   visible and his stuff either yeah I like [TS]

01:01:51   in his mailbox list and something I [TS]

01:01:53   think a lot of people will get used to [TS]

01:01:55   not having these scroll bars even though [TS]

01:01:57   they're minimized even though the scroll [TS]

01:01:58   bars look not as glaring as a big blue [TS]

01:02:03   lozenge tube thing that it I think [TS]

01:02:06   you'll get to the point especially [TS]

01:02:08   because most people run with the [TS]

01:02:09   defaults and then most Mac users have [TS]

01:02:11   laptops with the defaults will be hidden [TS]

01:02:13   we're one of those people will come over [TS]

01:02:14   to someone's computer where they have [TS]

01:02:16   scrollbars visible because their geek or [TS]

01:02:17   their using a Mac with just a mouse [TS]

01:02:19   attached or something and be like good [TS]

01:02:20   like there they'll recoil at the look of [TS]

01:02:23   a screen covered with all these little [TS]

01:02:25   lozenges on the edges of windows you [TS]

01:02:27   know say it's already happened with the [TS]

01:02:29   resize widget if you use line for a [TS]

01:02:31   while and you go back and see those [TS]

01:02:32   three tiny little 45 degree lines in [TS]

01:02:35   lower right corner of a window yeah what [TS]

01:02:36   the hell is that it's like someone's [TS]

01:02:37   spit on your interface [TS]

01:02:38   it's like pinstripes never pinstripes [TS]

01:02:40   yes and even look at a pinch right that [TS]

01:02:43   screenshot without freaking out those [TS]

01:02:44   little resize stripes same thing already [TS]

01:02:46   I can't even look at those anymore in [TS]

01:02:48   the scroll bars in general are something [TS]

01:02:51   that people like for example if you go [TS]

01:02:54   into the web design world you'll see [TS]

01:02:56   that people would often force scroll [TS]

01:03:00   bars in other words even if a page [TS]

01:03:02   didn't have the same amount of content [TS]

01:03:05   as a page that would scroll in their [TS]

01:03:07   design in the CSS they would attempt to [TS]

01:03:09   force a scrollbar to appear so that you [TS]

01:03:13   wouldn't have that jarring effect of [TS]

01:03:15   going from an elegant main page that had [TS]

01:03:17   no scrollbar or from one article to [TS]

01:03:19   another page or article that does have a [TS]

01:03:22   scrollbar and you the whole layout just [TS]

01:03:24   sort of jumps around because of that I [TS]

01:03:26   mean scroll bars have been a problem for [TS]

01:03:28   years for a lot I think there's a lot of [TS]

01:03:29   people who think this is this is amazing [TS]

01:03:31   even int just not just the OCD picky [TS]

01:03:34   people like us but people who design [TS]

01:03:36   errs I was at that camp similar you know [TS]

01:03:39   the else is obsessive about how things [TS]

01:03:41   look is going to be designers yeah [TS]

01:03:42   programmers and geeks but but yeah that [TS]

01:03:46   way that was the old Mac way the classic [TS]

01:03:48   Mac OS way and that the policy I believe [TS]

01:03:50   right in the Higgs said if your window [TS]

01:03:53   can ever have content that goes beyond [TS]

01:03:56   the bounds of the window you must show [TS]

01:03:57   scroll bars all the time in active [TS]

01:03:59   there'll be disabled scroll bars but [TS]

01:04:01   they said they do not want scroll bar [TS]

01:04:03   suddenly appearing then suddenly [TS]

01:04:04   disappearing based on user action you [TS]

01:04:05   know so if you make a lots of content [TS]

01:04:06   suddenly scroll bars appear no that was [TS]

01:04:09   not the Mac Way Mac os10 introduced that [TS]

01:04:11   concept and the reason Mac os10 [TS]

01:04:12   introduced that concept that was the [TS]

01:04:13   baby step of of hidden overlay scroll [TS]

01:04:16   bars because they said you know what [TS]

01:04:18   windows looks much much cooler when they [TS]

01:04:19   don't have those screw out of scroll I [TS]

01:04:21   snuck in them and I know in the classic [TS]

01:04:22   Mac OS world we always said programmers [TS]

01:04:24   please put scroll bars there just make [TS]

01:04:26   them inactive [TS]

01:04:27   so the controls don't appear disappear [TS]

01:04:28   but take a look at this look at this [TS]

01:04:30   terminal window here with one line [TS]

01:04:32   prompt then and I know you're not [TS]

01:04:33   terminal look at this preview window [TS]

01:04:34   with it with an image in it that just [TS]

01:04:36   exactly fits the int the the window [TS]

01:04:37   doesn't look much better especially [TS]

01:04:39   since now windows don't even have any [TS]

01:04:40   borders and we just have that [TS]

01:04:41   transparent line you know around the [TS]

01:04:42   edge the less crisp looks nice and yeah [TS]

01:04:45   we've got this little resize widget sort [TS]

01:04:47   of overlaying the content because we [TS]

01:04:48   have no place to put them when we don't [TS]

01:04:50   have scroll alleys but it looks so much [TS]

01:04:52   nicer so let's do that let's in Mac OS [TS]

01:04:53   10 let's decide that the policy and the [TS]

01:04:55   designers one on that one and Mac os10 [TS]

01:04:57   from day one has been if you're the [TS]

01:04:59   policy has been obviously every app [TS]

01:05:02   doesn't follow this but Apple always has [TS]

01:05:04   and I believe the Aqua using device is [TS]

01:05:06   always said this if your content fits [TS]

01:05:08   exactly with me in the window there's no [TS]

01:05:09   reason to show up scroll bars and if it [TS]

01:05:11   suddenly doesn't add the scroll bars on [TS]

01:05:13   well now they're finally getting to the [TS]

01:05:15   last place it's a you know alright so [TS]

01:05:16   and if it suddenly becomes too big still [TS]

01:05:18   don't show the scroll bars torn you know [TS]

01:05:20   just don't show them at all if they [TS]

01:05:21   start scrolling then show them briefly [TS]

01:05:22   and so on and so forth and maybe you can [TS]

01:05:24   flash them when the content gets too big [TS]

01:05:25   we don't you know [TS]

01:05:26   it's they're trying to move away from [TS]

01:05:29   visual clutter and it's take a long time [TS]

01:05:31   to do that because they know they're [TS]

01:05:33   sacrificing information and I find that [TS]

01:05:35   feeling uncomfortable if not knowing if [TS]

01:05:37   there's more or forgetting if this more [TS]

01:05:39   and that's so far for me it hasn't gone [TS]

01:05:40   away so as I was saying getting back to [TS]

01:05:42   how I'm going to do things I started to [TS]

01:05:44   really like the way things look without [TS]

01:05:46   scroll bars but I also start to really [TS]

01:05:47   hate being fooled by whether there's [TS]

01:05:50   more content or not and I don't like [TS]

01:05:52   pawing at things to tell if there's more [TS]

01:05:55   stuff there I you know I think when I go [TS]

01:05:59   full time on my big monitor machines I'm [TS]

01:06:02   going to have scroll bars always visible [TS]

01:06:04   then I'm continue to not have to fight [TS]

01:06:06   to not have the scroll bar my you know [TS]

01:06:08   subscription pain in the newswire and [TS]

01:06:09   stuff like that on a laptop I think I'll [TS]

01:06:13   probably set it to auto mode in which [TS]

01:06:14   case they'll be hidden especially with a [TS]

01:06:16   small laptop I would do that well you [TS]

01:06:17   know you meant one thing I don't think [TS]

01:06:19   we mentioned you mentioned yet today on [TS]

01:06:21   today's show but you did mention in your [TS]

01:06:23   article is a lot of the time when a when [TS]

01:06:26   a window opens it will sort of flash the [TS]

01:06:29   scroll bars to indicate there's more [TS]

01:06:31   here and then they'll sort of quickly [TS]

01:06:33   fade away uh I noticed it sometimes [TS]

01:06:37   sometimes I don't notice it but you [TS]

01:06:39   would think that there could be some [TS]

01:06:40   very [TS]

01:06:41   subtle visual hint I'm not going to [TS]

01:06:42   attempt to suggest what that would be [TS]

01:06:44   but you know it there could be some [TS]

01:06:47   visual cue that was there that was [TS]

01:06:49   present for longer than that and [TS]

01:06:51   unobtrusive but would indicate there is [TS]

01:06:53   more content here in some fashion you [TS]

01:06:56   would have thought that would be there [TS]

01:06:58   well the flashing is the way the user as [TS]

01:07:01   I said in the review that yeah but it's [TS]

01:07:02   not very to use that when when suddenly [TS]

01:07:05   when suddenly things change [TS]

01:07:07   for instance one example would be when [TS]

01:07:10   you do like command G they'll find next [TS]

01:07:11   when you're searching it what has [TS]

01:07:14   changed is your position when the [TS]

01:07:15   documents they automatically teleported [TS]

01:07:17   you to page 22 where the occurrence of [TS]

01:07:20   the word you were searching for appears [TS]

01:07:21   and they want to communicate to you [TS]

01:07:22   where you've landed in the document [TS]

01:07:24   because you really have no idea just a [TS]

01:07:25   command G right so then they flash the [TS]

01:07:27   scroll bars and then you see the scroll [TS]

01:07:29   wires the scroll bars provide a huge [TS]

01:07:30   amount of information you know their [TS]

01:07:32   where their position is and the height [TS]

01:07:34   of them tells you a whole bunch much [TS]

01:07:36   more than just there's more stuff below [TS]

01:07:38   there's more stuff below as you [TS]

01:07:39   mentioned the talk show I think was like [TS]

01:07:40   one if they did a fade at the bottom or [TS]

01:07:42   something like that [TS]

01:07:42   anything you do that affects the content [TS]

01:07:44   area has real downsides because now [TS]

01:07:47   you're screwing with the people's [TS]

01:07:47   content you don't wanna be drawing on [TS]

01:07:49   top of it is that fade there or is that [TS]

01:07:50   fade in the bottom of the image is the [TS]

01:07:52   image just fade out at the end you know [TS]

01:07:53   like if you end up havin looking at an [TS]

01:07:56   image in preview that happened to have a [TS]

01:07:57   fade out at the bottom which is not [TS]

01:07:59   uncommon if it's you know a particular [TS]

01:08:01   gradient fade we would fool you into [TS]

01:08:03   thinking because you've been trained by [TS]

01:08:05   that OS effect that means it's more [TS]

01:08:06   content blended page down and nothing [TS]

01:08:07   would happen yeah it's really difficult [TS]

01:08:09   to screw with the content area it the [TS]

01:08:12   overlays because they appear and [TS]

01:08:13   disappear it's clear they're not part of [TS]

01:08:14   the contents clear they're transient and [TS]

01:08:16   they serve the same purpose as the [TS]

01:08:17   scroll bar but the proportional scroll [TS]

01:08:19   thumb and all that stuff it's not a [TS]

01:08:21   great solution I don't know if there is [TS]

01:08:24   one maybe maybe a great solution is to [TS]

01:08:26   have the scroll bars always visible and [TS]

01:08:29   further de-emphasize them [TS]

01:08:31   I don't know mmm it's a difficult [TS]

01:08:33   problem and every time I think about [TS]

01:08:35   this I always question like how [TS]

01:08:37   important is it really to get rid of [TS]

01:08:39   this this visual noise like are there [TS]

01:08:41   other places where you could get bigger [TS]

01:08:42   bang for your buck getting rid of visual [TS]

01:08:44   noise then then sacrificing all the [TS]

01:08:46   information provided by a scroll bar [TS]

01:08:48   I don't know I think we'll have to [TS]

01:08:52   experiment to determine but idea that's [TS]

01:08:53   that's how I think I'll use mango send [TS]

01:08:55   the dots I will definitely have on on [TS]

01:08:57   the applications because mostly because [TS]

01:08:59   it's going to be a long time I think [TS]

01:09:01   very long before our applications are [TS]

01:09:03   updated to allow auto termination [TS]

01:09:05   because that's one of the that's not as [TS]

01:09:07   easy to sell that to developers why they [TS]

01:09:08   should enable that though like no my [TS]

01:09:10   application you can't terminate so I'm [TS]

01:09:11   not going to able that feature ever [TS]

01:09:13   right that will be a difficult very [TS]

01:09:16   difficult cultural change but it's [TS]

01:09:18   shortly in the short term my [TS]

01:09:19   applications are not going to be like [TS]

01:09:20   that maybe some allocations will never [TS]

01:09:21   be like that like you don't want your [TS]

01:09:23   mail application to ever be auto [TS]

01:09:24   terminated even if all the windows are [TS]

01:09:25   hidden because you want it in the [TS]

01:09:26   background receiving mail right you know [TS]

01:09:29   so I don't know how that's going to go [TS]

01:09:31   every but yeah dots dots will be under [TS]

01:09:32   my applications what other options other [TS]

01:09:34   they'd be interested in how I think I'm [TS]

01:09:35   gonna run it you know to be honest those [TS]

01:09:38   are the main two now there's something [TS]

01:09:40   else I'll scroll direction scroll [TS]

01:09:42   Direction that was the other thing [TS]

01:09:43   yeah all right so it's crawl direction I [TS]

01:09:45   thought I had a couple people have [TS]

01:09:48   agreed with this point but I haven't [TS]

01:09:49   heard echoed so much my main issue with [TS]

01:09:52   scroll Direction well those two issues [TS]

01:09:53   one obviously is a consistency issue and [TS]

01:09:55   everyone was talked about that and you [TS]

01:09:56   can reverse them and Snow Leopard border [TS]

01:09:58   you have to use some other machine like [TS]

01:09:59   it's a transitional period you're always [TS]

01:10:00   going to be all screwed up that's [TS]

01:10:01   frustrating but my main issue is that I [TS]

01:10:04   don't use a laptop most the time I'm [TS]

01:10:06   using a desktop and I'm using a desktop [TS]

01:10:07   of the mouse attached to it and all I [TS]

01:10:10   might have scroll wheels and even if [TS]

01:10:11   they didn't my big thing is that finger [TS]

01:10:14   is grasped you know that your fingers in [TS]

01:10:16   a relaxed position when you can track [TS]

01:10:19   the muscles your fingers grasp that your [TS]

01:10:20   fingers pulled down extending is a less [TS]

01:10:23   natural motion the bigger the bigger [TS]

01:10:25   stronger muscles are in grasping you can [TS]

01:10:27   grip something much more tightly than [TS]

01:10:28   you can push the back of your fingers up [TS]

01:10:29   against something it's just the way [TS]

01:10:31   human physiology works and so I'm going [TS]

01:10:34   to be scrolling down all day long which [TS]

01:10:36   I am because scrolling is always the [TS]

01:10:37   you're almost always going down right [TS]

01:10:39   you're not scrolling up I want that to [TS]

01:10:41   be the motion that my body is most [TS]

01:10:44   efficiently able to form and that's [TS]

01:10:46   grasping so it's flicking down on the [TS]

01:10:48   scroll wheel simply because [TS]

01:10:49   physiologically that is that's the most [TS]

01:10:52   natural motion for fingers and I'm going [TS]

01:10:54   to be doing it all freaking day no I [TS]

01:10:55   I like touch base things I like the [TS]

01:10:57   magic mouse touch part I don't like the [TS]

01:10:59   other parts of the magic mastery it's [TS]

01:11:00   too low and too heavy but [TS]

01:11:02   I like touching stuff like that but it's [TS]

01:11:04   the same thing on touch same thing it [TS]

01:11:06   you want to be pulling towards yourself [TS]

01:11:09   it's not like the other way is going to [TS]

01:11:10   cause me to break my fingers off or it's [TS]

01:11:13   simply less efficient and less natural [TS]

01:11:15   I'm sure I will get used to it but for [TS]

01:11:16   now I'm definitely going to have scroll [TS]

01:11:18   direction in the quote-unquote normal [TS]

01:11:20   way which is kind of a shame because not [TS]

01:11:23   that I'm ever gonna use launchpad but if [TS]

01:11:24   I did if you're on launchpad and you [TS]

01:11:27   have like a touch Mouse and you have [TS]

01:11:29   scrolling set to like the snow leopard [TS]

01:11:30   direction for you know pulling down to [TS]

01:11:32   see lower in the document then scrolling [TS]

01:11:34   feels backwards on launch pad because [TS]

01:11:35   you see launchpad you like o on iOS mode [TS]

01:11:38   let me swipe those icons and it goes the [TS]

01:11:39   opposite direction you know so you can't [TS]

01:11:41   win it would be great if they could [TS]

01:11:42   change B you have independent axes you [TS]

01:11:44   know of like of vertical scrolling it's [TS]

01:11:48   kind of like a first-person shooter why [TS]

01:11:50   what do they call it up inverted why [TS]

01:11:52   every game it usually allows you to [TS]

01:11:54   invert the y-axis but keep the x-axis [TS]

01:11:56   the same when right when you pass around [TS]

01:11:57   because some people used to it it would [TS]

01:11:59   be nice if Mac os10 had inverted Y but [TS]

01:12:01   kept the X the natural way so that you [TS]

01:12:03   could swipe left and right among even if [TS]

01:12:05   you're just going swiping left or right [TS]

01:12:06   on Safari and stuff like that I would [TS]

01:12:08   like to have inverted Y but regular you [TS]

01:12:10   know X and also I really like it if they [TS]

01:12:13   would unlink the trackpad preference of [TS]

01:12:16   the mouse preference I've had people [TS]

01:12:17   tell me if you change the mouse and [TS]

01:12:19   trackpad tracking in the correct order [TS]

01:12:23   that you can change them independently [TS]

01:12:24   but every time I correct order yeah like [TS]

01:12:27   first change the mouse one to the [TS]

01:12:29   direction you want but then change the [TS]

01:12:30   trackpad one to the reverse or vice [TS]

01:12:32   versa I don't remember that somehow [TS]

01:12:34   they're not links but every time I tried [TS]

01:12:35   during testing I was like great there's [TS]

01:12:37   a separate setting in trackpad for [TS]

01:12:38   reverse direction except for setting a [TS]

01:12:39   mouse and every time I changed one and [TS]

01:12:41   one it would change on the other and it [TS]

01:12:42   doesn't help that Apple changed the [TS]

01:12:44   wording and I believe they even change [TS]

01:12:45   the logical meaning of like it used to [TS]

01:12:48   be a negative thing you would check the [TS]

01:12:49   turn on then change to a pop thing you [TS]

01:12:52   would uncheck to turn off but anyway [TS]

01:12:54   those two options the fact that they are [TS]

01:12:56   linked in anyway is annoying because I [TS]

01:12:58   think this should be independent because [TS]

01:12:59   obviously on a trackpad one thing feels [TS]

01:13:01   more natural than on a mouse so scroll [TS]

01:13:04   direction I will have in the old Snow [TS]

01:13:06   Leopard one because I use mouse wheels [TS]

01:13:08   and because I think pulling my finger [TS]

01:13:09   towards me is more comfortable than [TS]

01:13:11   doing it the other way [TS]

01:13:11   our third spots our last sponsor but I [TS]

01:13:14   know no means are at least [TS]

01:13:16   important sponsor is brought to you by [TS]

01:13:18   careers 2.0 careers 2.0 is a new service [TS]

01:13:22   provided by our friends over at Stack [TS]

01:13:24   Overflow now of course you're probably [TS]

01:13:26   all familiar with Stack Overflow it's [TS]

01:13:28   the online Q&A resource dedicated [TS]

01:13:30   specifically to programmers and [TS]

01:13:32   programming related topics well the team [TS]

01:13:34   at Stack Overflow created the careers [TS]

01:13:36   2.0 service to provide you with access [TS]

01:13:38   to great jobs and also introduce you to [TS]

01:13:40   a bunch of great companies you might [TS]

01:13:42   consider working for even if you're not [TS]

01:13:44   currently looking for a job you can [TS]

01:13:47   think of careers 2.0 as a programmer [TS]

01:13:49   profile that gives you a platform to [TS]

01:13:51   show your awesomeness by featuring your [TS]

01:13:53   proudest contributions to Stack Overflow [TS]

01:13:55   github SourceForge bitbucket anything [TS]

01:13:57   programming related and you can even add [TS]

01:13:59   your own favorite programming books from [TS]

01:14:01   amazon.com profiles on careers 2.0 are [TS]

01:14:04   free and they're easy to get started [TS]

01:14:06   especially by importing your LinkedIn [TS]

01:14:08   profile I mean how how easy good and [TS]

01:14:10   everybody seems to have one of those [TS]

01:14:11   things but there's one catch profiles on [TS]

01:14:14   careers 2.0 is invite-only [TS]

01:14:16   they did this to keep out the spam and [TS]

01:14:18   create a high quality environment but [TS]

01:14:20   fortunately for you as a hyper critical [TS]

01:14:21   listener I've already invited you to [TS]

01:14:23   join the tens of thousands of other [TS]

01:14:25   programmers who already have a profile [TS]

01:14:27   so head on over to careers dot Stack [TS]

01:14:30   Overflow calm /hc [TS]

01:14:33   to accept your invitation today once [TS]

01:14:36   again there's the URL write this down [TS]

01:14:38   with a pen on your hand career's [TS]

01:14:42   stackoverflow.com /hc [TS]

01:14:45   and you'll be in in like Flynn we'd also [TS]

01:14:50   like to mention that bandwidth for this [TS]

01:14:52   month has been provided by Midas green [TS]

01:14:54   technologies virtual private servers [TS]

01:14:57   submerged in oil in actual oil check it [TS]

01:15:02   out - green tech comm so one more thing [TS]

01:15:07   that that I thought you did discuss and [TS]

01:15:10   you were critical of but I don't I don't [TS]

01:15:14   feel like you were - you you I don't say [TS]

01:15:16   you gave it a you gave it a kitchen pass [TS]

01:15:18   but you were way not critical enough you [TS]

01:15:22   are too nice even though you probably [TS]

01:15:24   devoted a whole page to it you are still [TS]

01:15:27   too nice [TS]

01:15:28   about the visual interface changes that [TS]

01:15:33   do nothing except give the appearance of [TS]

01:15:37   slowing things down and the example is [TS]

01:15:40   talking about a window that opens it [TS]

01:15:42   starts from the central point of where [TS]

01:15:44   the window will be when it's fully [TS]

01:15:45   expanded and it animates the expansion [TS]

01:15:48   of the window like you talked about that [TS]

01:15:51   you and honor you I wish you had been [TS]

01:15:53   twice as critical of that then you were [TS]

01:15:56   I mean it [TS]

01:15:57   the horribleness of that that to me is I [TS]

01:16:02   mean look I would say upgraded to two [TS]

01:16:04   lion just to get the new mail app it's [TS]

01:16:06   that good but I the war ABS for me the [TS]

01:16:09   worst thing about it I don't want to see [TS]

01:16:11   a window animating from a tiny little [TS]

01:16:15   pinpoint grow it fit it does everything [TS]

01:16:18   that you again you perfectly nailed the [TS]

01:16:20   issue in in your article it's just that [TS]

01:16:24   it gives the perception of being much [TS]

01:16:26   slower weather I mean I don't know how [TS]

01:16:28   you would time this but the length of [TS]

01:16:31   time that it takes to open a new window [TS]

01:16:33   in lion vs. Snow Leopard it's probably [TS]

01:16:37   pretty pretty much the same thing but it [TS]

01:16:40   feels so much slower online and the [TS]

01:16:43   perception is that things take a long [TS]

01:16:45   time though [TS]

01:16:45   now when you close the window it's gone [TS]

01:16:47   instantly and you mentioned that too [TS]

01:16:48   it's just you close it's gone [TS]

01:16:51   ah but opening windows it's it's so bad [TS]

01:16:56   and there's as far as I know there's no [TS]

01:16:57   way to turn that off yet is there I have [TS]

01:17:00   not found a way I thought I was pretty [TS]

01:17:01   no you were Lee again we're not you know [TS]

01:17:04   you were against the only but it was [TS]

01:17:06   well my video in the entire review it [TS]

01:17:08   wasn't enough yeah I mean I guess maybe [TS]

01:17:10   my old age I don't go off on there like [TS]

01:17:12   it's like what more others as I look at [TS]

01:17:15   this freakin video every time you make a [TS]

01:17:16   new document does the animation I [TS]

01:17:18   explain logically why this animation is [TS]

01:17:21   different from other animation I [TS]

01:17:22   described how it felt for it to appear I [TS]

01:17:24   said this was a bad choice I said I [TS]

01:17:26   think you know what you didn't I could [TS]

01:17:28   turn it off should have brought it up [TS]

01:17:29   you should have brought it up five six [TS]

01:17:31   seven eight more times throughout the [TS]

01:17:32   rest of the interview [TS]

01:17:33   I just what it taught over everyone's [TS]

01:17:35   pet peeve is they wish I would yell [TS]

01:17:37   about more but again maybe I'm getting [TS]

01:17:38   tired of my old age [TS]

01:17:39   yelling about things maybe I don't think [TS]

01:17:40   yelling is the most construct but I'm [TS]

01:17:42   with you a hundred percent and [TS]

01:17:43   everything you said there and I'm pretty [TS]

01:17:46   much just as pissed about it as you are [TS]

01:17:48   but in the grand scheme of things for [TS]

01:17:52   example I would be much more pissed if [TS]

01:17:53   scrollbars couldn't be made visible you [TS]

01:17:55   know what I mean I'm thankful for the [TS]

01:17:57   options I wouldn't but maybe that [TS]

01:17:59   tempered my I was one option they didn't [TS]

01:18:01   give me that's so horrible like it's the [TS]

01:18:03   one bad horrible thing you know I would [TS]

01:18:06   rather not have the scrollbars be [TS]

01:18:08   visible than this I wouldn't make that [TS]

01:18:10   trade sure I would because that's how [TS]

01:18:12   bad this is yeah it is bad and again [TS]

01:18:16   even if you hint like measuring trying [TS]

01:18:19   to get it trying to time it to see I'd [TS]

01:18:21   rather go back to the system system 6 [TS]

01:18:23   scrollbar system 7 scroll bars and how [TS]

01:18:26   to live with those in this is it [TS]

01:18:28   empirically slower or do we have the [TS]

01:18:31   psychical spare the only thing I can say [TS]

01:18:33   about it is at the very least you are [TS]

01:18:36   you utilizing CPU and GPU resources more [TS]

01:18:39   than you used to be maybe there were [TS]

01:18:40   idle resources and they were there [TS]

01:18:41   anyway but if you want to go eco on it [TS]

01:18:43   you can say there's a slight increase in [TS]

01:18:45   power usage because now the GPU had to [TS]

01:18:48   draw the window when it's this size the [TS]

01:18:50   window when it's in between size and the [TS]

01:18:51   window full size whereas before they [TS]

01:18:53   were just have to draw the the window [TS]

01:18:54   once and repeat that over months and [TS]

01:18:56   months you probably it's probably extra [TS]

01:18:58   one eight thousandth of a penny and [TS]

01:19:00   electricity that you're being caught [TS]

01:19:01   well here's the thing here's hard to [TS]

01:19:03   come up with I mean everything you said [TS]

01:19:05   about why it's horrible I agree with but [TS]

01:19:07   empirically speaking I bet people I [TS]

01:19:10   don't know now John we we get a lot of [TS]

01:19:12   email from listeners and we appreciate [TS]

01:19:14   the email and a lot of the email is [TS]

01:19:15   correcting things that we've said or [TS]

01:19:17   commenting on things that we've pointed [TS]

01:19:19   out whether they agree or disagree and [TS]

01:19:21   once in a while we get like a little tip [TS]

01:19:22   if anybody can figure out the plist [TS]

01:19:26   setting or the default setting that they [TS]

01:19:28   can turn that off I don't want to I [TS]

01:19:31   don't want to have to install an app to [TS]

01:19:32   do it you know I'm saying just give me [TS]

01:19:34   give me something to type on internal um [TS]

01:19:36   I've been don't think I haven't been [TS]

01:19:37   looking for it and I'm assuming the vast [TS]

01:19:39   resources of the interwebs will [TS]

01:19:41   eventually find it if it exists here's [TS]

01:19:44   something I know that people I know that [TS]

01:19:46   people at Apple listen to this show I [TS]

01:19:48   don't know how many I know there is a [TS]

01:19:50   you know a small group of people at [TS]

01:19:53   Apple who listen to this I'm assuming [TS]

01:19:55   it's probably Steve Jobs and Phil [TS]

01:19:57   Schiller and a couple of their friends [TS]

01:19:59   they just kick back on a weekend and [TS]

01:20:01   listen if one of you guys could email [TS]

01:20:04   this to me I I will not tell who that [TS]

01:20:07   you sent it I'll keep it on the DL [TS]

01:20:10   maybe I'll - I'll tweet about it I won't [TS]

01:20:12   mention who told me total secrecy total [TS]

01:20:15   anonymity but please let me know [TS]

01:20:17   today well if you want to get depressed [TS]

01:20:18   like I fully expected that you know just [TS]

01:20:22   because I wasn't able to find this in my [TS]

01:20:23   brief searching I fully expected once [TS]

01:20:25   this thing goes on the web I will [TS]

01:20:26   immediately get emails from 17 people [TS]

01:20:28   from Apple saying oh yeah here's the P [TS]

01:20:30   listing for it no contact so far so this [TS]

01:20:33   started making me scared that it really [TS]

01:20:35   is no way to turn it off because that [TS]

01:20:37   almost anytime I mention anything like [TS]

01:20:39   that in a review somebody from who knows [TS]

01:20:43   well immediately contact me telling me [TS]

01:20:45   what it is [TS]

01:20:46   and if not someone from Apple then wait [TS]

01:20:48   three days and someone on the internet [TS]

01:20:50   will find it ah if someone has found it [TS]

01:20:52   already please tell me I will be sure to [TS]

01:20:54   mention it on the show so now here's [TS]

01:20:56   some here's something that you know we [TS]

01:20:58   don't want to run too long but I feel [TS]

01:21:00   like I feel like we could really this is [TS]

01:21:04   such a great piece that you wrote here [TS]

01:21:05   this will be fodder for us for a long [TS]

01:21:07   time whether it's just as a few or [TS]

01:21:10   whether it's you know it's it's full [TS]

01:21:13   show topics but there's one thing that I [TS]

01:21:15   just I want to ask you because this is [TS]

01:21:17   something I'm thinking about doing today [TS]

01:21:18   so I got this new MacBook Air the day [TS]

01:21:21   that they were announced I ordered it [TS]

01:21:22   got here the next day and it my [TS]

01:21:26   understanding is at a MacBook Air as a [TS]

01:21:28   portable computer does that check out [TS]

01:21:30   sure and your recommendation was that [TS]

01:21:34   you would you would use full disk [TS]

01:21:37   encryption on I believe that the phrase [TS]

01:21:40   that you used was any comportable [TS]

01:21:43   computer I travel with was that the crew [TS]

01:21:47   is that the correct terminology is at [TS]

01:21:49   the fresh I don't remember wording but [TS]

01:21:50   what I was trying to get at is if you [TS]

01:21:52   think there's any possibility that you [TS]

01:21:53   would accidentally leave it somewhere it [TS]

01:21:54   could be stolen like if you're if you're [TS]

01:21:56   a traveling person you go through [TS]

01:21:57   airports or at hotels you know because a [TS]

01:21:59   lot of people get laptop computers that [TS]

01:22:01   never leave their house [TS]

01:22:02   we have laptop computers in our house [TS]

01:22:04   and they almost never leave the house if [TS]

01:22:06   they do they come with us to go to [TS]

01:22:07   another relative so you're saying if you [TS]

01:22:08   take a computer with you to work or to [TS]

01:22:10   coffee shops or or on trips like anybody [TS]

01:22:13   could fall into someone else's hands [TS]

01:22:14   you're saying turn this thing on yes and [TS]

01:22:17   also said performance performance does [TS]

01:22:20   not seem to be affected when you tested [TS]

01:22:23   it did you did you test it on a high [TS]

01:22:25   powered you know high-end MacBook Pro [TS]

01:22:27   with eight gigs of ram and i7 or what [TS]

01:22:29   actually let me before keep this thought [TS]

01:22:32   because I want to circle back to [TS]

01:22:33   something else we talked about before [TS]

01:22:34   sure it's related to this which is which [TS]

01:22:36   I was trying to get to in the topic [TS]

01:22:38   about how I'm going to use line and how [TS]

01:22:40   I just tested in these weird forms and I [TS]

01:22:42   build it up to um like lunaire erase it [TS]

01:22:43   and try to test and clean installs yeah [TS]

01:22:46   and I said hi how I had an upgrade to [TS]

01:22:48   line yet and I rarely do and you know [TS]

01:22:50   immediately upgrade so the reason I [TS]

01:22:52   don't immediately upgrade my policy for [TS]

01:22:54   years has been let everybody else [TS]

01:22:56   upgrade let everybody else find all the [TS]

01:22:59   problems in the operating system and in [TS]

01:23:01   the programs as most of the programs and [TS]

01:23:02   my mo is to keep the previous operating [TS]

01:23:05   system on my main system obviously I [TS]

01:23:06   have auxilary systems and stuff upgrade [TS]

01:23:08   them on my main important system where [TS]

01:23:09   everything has to work what I want to do [TS]

01:23:11   is over the coming weeks and months or I [TS]

01:23:14   don't know how long it's going to be [TS]

01:23:15   update every one of the applications [TS]

01:23:17   that I use to be lion savvy so whatever [TS]

01:23:19   it is default folder X which I love [TS]

01:23:22   upgrade that to the Y in version they've [TS]

01:23:24   already done that you know the latest [TS]

01:23:25   version of BBEdit if it wasn't already [TS]

01:23:27   line savvy upgrade to the version that [TS]

01:23:29   is it I think it is already fine [TS]

01:23:30   everything all the applications that I [TS]

01:23:32   use on a daily basis let everyone else [TS]

01:23:34   discover what the problems are they're [TS]

01:23:36   in line and let me eventually end up [TS]

01:23:38   with a system running Snow Leopard that [TS]

01:23:40   nevertheless has all installed software [TS]

01:23:43   absolutely ready for Lion and that [TS]

01:23:46   includes stuff like macfuse like [TS]

01:23:48   whatever I get an updated version of [TS]

01:23:50   fuse that works with with line I want to [TS]

01:23:51   have that installed in Snow Leopard if [TS]

01:23:53   possible you know if I have to rebuild [TS]

01:23:56   any of my open source software and I [TS]

01:23:58   can't do it later you know rebuild [TS]

01:24:00   64-bit versions or something like that [TS]

01:24:01   right and what I want to happen is when [TS]

01:24:04   I finally decide to pull the trigger on [TS]

01:24:05   line install no surprises none I want to [TS]

01:24:08   upgrade and have everything just like [TS]

01:24:10   immediately work because I spent all [TS]

01:24:12   this time making sure every single [TS]

01:24:15   application and piece of so [TS]

01:24:16   where I use is line ready that's how I [TS]

01:24:18   go with the with the upgrade process [TS]

01:24:20   everyone thinks like I immediately [TS]

01:24:22   upgrade the line running at all time [TS]

01:24:23   people are constantly asking me oh can [TS]

01:24:25   you check this out in line has this work [TS]

01:24:26   or whatever it's like I would do it [TS]

01:24:28   because it takes two seconds but I'm [TS]

01:24:29   sitting in front of Snow Leopard at Snow [TS]

01:24:31   Leopard of home and certainly have Snow [TS]

01:24:32   Leopard of work because you know i [TS]

01:24:33   disrupt your work environment oh you're [TS]

01:24:34   sure everything's going to work and work [TS]

01:24:36   as a whole their issue in terms of IT [TS]

01:24:38   policy and all that business [TS]

01:24:40   so encryption falls under the same [TS]

01:24:42   category I said that you know Iran [TS]

01:24:45   encrypted almost the entire time using [TS]

01:24:47   Lion Inn for the dev build so the first [TS]

01:24:50   thing I did was I installed it is [TS]

01:24:52   something I needed to figure out like [TS]

01:24:53   right after was installed like what is [TS]

01:24:55   the first launch experience of this or [TS]

01:24:56   what are these defaults or whatever fine [TS]

01:24:57   I did that and then I immediately [TS]

01:24:59   encrypted [TS]

01:25:00   I used encrypted for months and months [TS]

01:25:01   and all the dev builds never a single [TS]

01:25:04   problem related to encryption never [TS]

01:25:05   corrupted my disk and I sure screwed [TS]

01:25:07   around with a disk utility command you [TS]

01:25:09   should you know did all sorts of stuff [TS]

01:25:10   that you shouldn't be doing it never had [TS]

01:25:12   a problem booting it never seemed slow [TS]

01:25:14   to me in any way no I didn't benchmark [TS]

01:25:16   it but I'm gonna say for most normal [TS]

01:25:17   people with spinning disks in particular [TS]

01:25:20   you just won't notice now obviously if [TS]

01:25:23   you're doing like video or even maybe a [TS]

01:25:24   heavy-duty multitrack audio or something [TS]

01:25:27   like that there is going to be some sort [TS]

01:25:29   of i/o hit for but I did not do [TS]

01:25:30   benchmarks in this there's another thing [TS]

01:25:32   if I had more time I would've done [TS]

01:25:33   benchmarks and some of these things it's [TS]

01:25:35   because I don't think line it was about [TS]

01:25:37   performance or benchmarking so that's [TS]

01:25:38   not like there was a thrust of the OS [TS]

01:25:40   and I had to spend my time and what I [TS]

01:25:42   thought was the most important some [TS]

01:25:44   people have done benchmark so for [TS]

01:25:45   example they did a benchmark of PGP [TS]

01:25:47   whole desk encryption versus Lions [TS]

01:25:49   actually was a little slightly older [TS]

01:25:50   version of PGP whole disk encryption [TS]

01:25:51   versus lines and lines encryption was [TS]

01:25:53   twice as fast it's more now it's not [TS]

01:25:57   it's not you don't get nothing for free [TS]

01:25:58   it's but I think it would be [TS]

01:26:00   imperceptible for normal usage browsing [TS]

01:26:02   the web doing some email even stuff like [TS]

01:26:05   running Photoshop stuff like that you [TS]

01:26:07   usually not IO bound most of the things [TS]

01:26:09   that you do and I think that Apple's [TS]

01:26:12   implementation is really solid that's [TS]

01:26:14   the reason I said if you have a Mac that [TS]

01:26:16   you think that's possibility could be [TS]

01:26:18   stolen the peace of mind you will get [TS]

01:26:20   from having that thing whole disk [TS]

01:26:21   encrypted is great and I said also based [TS]

01:26:24   on my multiple years now of using a Mac [TS]

01:26:27   at work that it is entirely encrypted [TS]

01:26:29   you forget it's the [TS]

01:26:29   there it has no software compatibility [TS]

01:26:31   issues except for the issue of one it's [TS]

01:26:34   the third party product in the upgrade [TS]

01:26:35   the OS and hoses you which I tweeted [TS]

01:26:37   about recently again updated to 1068 and [TS]

01:26:40   it hoes my PGP whole disk encryption [TS]

01:26:42   obviously if it's made by the operating [TS]

01:26:44   system vendor and built into the [TS]

01:26:45   operating system I would hope that you [TS]

01:26:46   wouldn't have those problems but no data [TS]

01:26:49   loss [TS]

01:26:50   I've been paranoid ever since I [TS]

01:26:51   encrypted my Mac at work that I was [TS]

01:26:53   going to somehow lose my drive because [TS]

01:26:54   both of my drives are encrypted [TS]

01:26:56   including my time machine backup that I [TS]

01:26:57   was going to lose everything and you [TS]

01:26:59   know it hasn't happened I've always been [TS]

01:27:01   able to just boot from a recovery disk [TS]

01:27:02   you know I haven't forgotten my password [TS]

01:27:04   so I wholeheartedly endorse Apple's [TS]

01:27:08   whole disk encryption based on my [TS]

01:27:10   experience running it almost all the [TS]

01:27:11   time with the dead builds and based on [TS]

01:27:13   my experience with a third party product [TS]

01:27:15   running all this encryption it is way [TS]

01:27:16   better than any you know it because it's [TS]

01:27:19   invisible to application software all [TS]

01:27:21   your applications people keep asking me [TS]

01:27:22   the super duper workers encrypted disk [TS]

01:27:24   how am i backups work how does time [TS]

01:27:25   machine work your software has no idea [TS]

01:27:27   the disk is encrypted that's the beauty [TS]

01:27:28   of it it looks like a completely [TS]

01:27:30   unencrypted disk there are no software [TS]

01:27:32   compatibility if it's you know it's done [TS]

01:27:33   right there no software compatibility [TS]

01:27:34   issues with anything except excuse me [TS]

01:27:37   except maybe like boot loaders or the [TS]

01:27:39   boot process or whatever and again I [TS]

01:27:40   would think Apple get that right so [TS]

01:27:42   combine that advice with the notion that [TS]

01:27:44   I don't even upgrade my computer until [TS]

01:27:46   I'm sure all my application software [TS]

01:27:48   works and you'll get sort of a picture [TS]

01:27:49   of how I how I look at these things in [TS]

01:27:51   the review I don't want to say I don't [TS]

01:27:53   like reviews that say the temper every [TS]

01:27:56   single statement about the operating [TS]

01:27:57   system with but you know you should [TS]

01:27:59   really wait before you upgrade because I [TS]

01:28:00   wouldn't trust this quite right out of [TS]

01:28:01   the box and like like flood like you [TS]

01:28:04   know tempering every nice thing you say [TS]

01:28:06   or every interesting feature with like [TS]

01:28:08   but there's no way I would try this [TS]

01:28:09   until at least six months after it's [TS]

01:28:10   been out for a while to find the bugs [TS]

01:28:11   that's true of every single piece of [TS]

01:28:13   software ever not just zero point zero [TS]

01:28:14   and it weakens the review and it's [TS]

01:28:17   pointless to constantly reiterate after [TS]

01:28:19   everything every every feature you [TS]

01:28:20   describe but don't even try this now [TS]

01:28:22   because it's probably gonna be really [TS]

01:28:23   bugging you should wait six months [TS]

01:28:25   overall if you are concerned about bugs [TS]

01:28:27   compatibility wait six months period [TS]

01:28:29   that's not gonna do with an individual [TS]

01:28:31   feature and it's not a slight on the [TS]

01:28:32   product itself it's true of everything [TS]

01:28:33   it's true even a point release like I [TS]

01:28:35   shouldn't I shouldn't have been stupid [TS]

01:28:36   and upgraded to ten six eight by just [TS]

01:28:38   clicking a button you just get used to [TS]

01:28:39   doing that you know 10xy you just get [TS]

01:28:42   used to doing the wire releases all just [TS]

01:28:43   up [TS]

01:28:43   - sup date I should have waited a day [TS]

01:28:46   read on the web or looks for hey anyone [TS]

01:28:48   have any issues with 1068 I would have [TS]

01:28:50   immediately found the PGP hole disk [TS]

01:28:51   encryption people having problems and I [TS]

01:28:53   you know don't upgrade immediately just [TS]

01:28:56   for the hell of it and this is not [TS]

01:28:58   that's something and I talked about at [TS]

01:28:59   the end I think in the recommendation [TS]

01:29:01   section was trying to say don't be in a [TS]

01:29:03   hurry upgrade you know if you want to [TS]

01:29:05   great right away fine but you'll be [TS]

01:29:06   better off if you just wait that's just [TS]

01:29:07   that's true of all software period it is [TS]

01:29:10   not particularly true of line now if I [TS]

01:29:11   had individual experiences with the line [TS]

01:29:14   dev builds that led me to believe the [TS]

01:29:15   lion was buggy or the whole disk [TS]

01:29:16   encryption was buggy I probably would [TS]

01:29:18   have said oh I use holdest I tried to [TS]

01:29:20   use whole disk encryption all through [TS]

01:29:21   the dev builds but it never quite worked [TS]

01:29:22   so I don't quite trust the really [TS]

01:29:24   someone even that might not be fair [TS]

01:29:25   because Apple has done some amazing [TS]

01:29:27   turnarounds over the years where a [TS]

01:29:29   feature has been buggy buggy buggy right [TS]

01:29:31   up until like the very last build and [TS]

01:29:32   then it's rock-solid and users don't [TS]

01:29:34   know about this visit and run the dev [TS]

01:29:36   build but they've had some amazing [TS]

01:29:37   releases where just before like the bill [TS]

01:29:39   before the retail release everything [TS]

01:29:41   suddenly becomes super rock-solid in my [TS]

01:29:43   particular feature and never and never [TS]

01:29:45   back slides so my recommendation on this [TS]

01:29:48   is if you are running lion now if you've [TS]

01:29:51   made that plunge then I would say yeah [TS]

01:29:53   make the encryption plunge again [TS]

01:29:56   you have to have good backups you know [TS]

01:29:57   be prepared for disaster don't trust it [TS]

01:30:00   implicitly but that's that's true of [TS]

01:30:03   anything not just because of encryption [TS]

01:30:04   any minute you mentioned would super [TS]

01:30:06   something like SuperDuper work Time [TS]

01:30:08   Machine work it's going to but if you're [TS]

01:30:10   cloning the drive is the clone gonna be [TS]

01:30:14   encrypted or no oh no people have an [TS]

01:30:17   edge I just want to I just want to [TS]

01:30:18   clarify that because SuperDuper is [TS]

01:30:21   operating at a system level which is [TS]

01:30:23   above the level of the encryption so it [TS]

01:30:26   sees regular files I just want people [TS]

01:30:28   understand this because if not you I'm [TS]

01:30:29   trying to save you emails John oh I'm [TS]

01:30:31   still getting them trust me alright but [TS]

01:30:34   yeah I mean if you said it would be the [TS]

01:30:35   same thing as copying a file to to [TS]

01:30:37   another hard drive over a network it's [TS]

01:30:39   it's going to decrypt it instantaneously [TS]

01:30:41   you're not going to know it was ever [TS]

01:30:43   encrypted super duper doesn't know [TS]

01:30:44   what's encrypted so of course anything [TS]

01:30:46   that you do like that including your [TS]

01:30:48   Time Machine backup so you you're [TS]

01:30:49   encrypting your Time Machine backup what [TS]

01:30:51   if I want to do both lines encryption [TS]

01:30:54   and PGP encryption will they play nice [TS]

01:30:57   I don't think that's possible did you [TS]

01:30:58   test it no okay so you're really your [TS]

01:31:01   review is incomplete then yeah okay sir [TS]

01:31:04   don't even try that is I don't think [TS]

01:31:07   that will work at all I think it will [TS]

01:31:09   just I don't think it'll house you data [TS]

01:31:10   but I think I'll almost certainly render [TS]

01:31:12   your system unbootable and so you advise [TS]

01:31:15   against that yeah don't do that [TS]

01:31:17   all right so maybe the way to think [TS]

01:31:19   about if I had known this it would be [TS]

01:31:20   such an issue of confusion I would have [TS]

01:31:22   tried to clarify more in their view but [TS]

01:31:23   the way to think about it is that when [TS]

01:31:24   you turn your machine on whether using [TS]

01:31:26   PGP or line or whatever you immediately [TS]

01:31:28   get this prompt that wants a password it [TS]

01:31:29   hasn't done anything yet it's like you [TS]

01:31:31   need to give me the magic word to allow [TS]

01:31:35   access to this drive once you give that [TS]

01:31:37   magic word on that very early firmware [TS]

01:31:40   based like it hasn't booted the [TS]

01:31:41   operating system it hasn't it has no [TS]

01:31:43   idea what's on your drive your drive is [TS]

01:31:44   just a completely opaque bucket of [TS]

01:31:46   scrambled binary crap at this point and [TS]

01:31:48   it puts up a UI and says type in a [TS]

01:31:50   password after you type that password [TS]

01:31:52   from that point on pretend your disk is [TS]

01:31:54   not encrypted and then then when [TS]

01:31:56   questions like well to make a time [TS]

01:31:57   machine back up [TS]

01:31:58   will it be encrypted you answer that [TS]

01:32:00   question by going back to that rule I [TS]

01:32:01   just said after you enter that password [TS]

01:32:03   your pretend your drive is not encrypted [TS]

01:32:05   okay your drive is not encrypted you [TS]

01:32:06   make a time machine back up as a time [TS]

01:32:08   machine back up encrypted no because [TS]

01:32:10   after you enter that password drive is [TS]

01:32:12   not encrypted period so I think it would [TS]

01:32:13   be fun to call this the show come what [TS]

01:32:17   was the thing completely what did you [TS]

01:32:20   just say it's great Leo Baeck bucket [TS]

01:32:23   bucket of a coronary cram room yeah [TS]

01:32:26   completely opaque bucket of binary crap [TS]

01:32:29   that is not the show because the show if [TS]

01:32:31   you were to run the file utility on it [TS]

01:32:32   from the old world of critics say you [TS]

01:32:34   know audio file or whatever so we won't [TS]

01:32:39   you simply fake so listen how are we [TS]

01:32:41   going to how we going to handle upcoming [TS]

01:32:43   shows we can adjust we just going to go [TS]

01:32:45   section by section from now on until [TS]

01:32:47   we're done till the next OS is out yeah [TS]

01:32:50   I think we hit the highlights here but I [TS]

01:32:51   think there's more in there a lot more [TS]

01:32:53   in there and remember like in my notes [TS]

01:32:55   from the previous show we had a whole [TS]

01:32:57   bunch of follow-up that we had the shell [TS]

01:32:58   that's totally not line related so [TS]

01:33:00   that's out there lurking in the back and [TS]

01:33:02   I've I've been adding to that and [TS]

01:33:03   there's still markdown out there but [TS]

01:33:04   yeah next show I think we'll talk about [TS]

01:33:06   lines some more I think so I think we [TS]

01:33:08   need to because this is great and again [TS]

01:33:10   congratulations so if you [TS]

01:33:11   if you want to support John's excellent [TS]

01:33:14   work on this piece obviously go read it [TS]

01:33:17   if you want to support John directly [TS]

01:33:19   what's the best way for them to do that [TS]

01:33:21   go they can either sign up I will put in [TS]

01:33:23   the shownotes link my Amazon referral a [TS]

01:33:26   link for the Kindle eBook some people [TS]

01:33:28   are buying even though they don't plan [TS]

01:33:29   to read it but just fine you just want [TS]

01:33:31   to give some money gruber length if you [TS]

01:33:34   want to go during fireball his link was [TS]

01:33:36   the Amazon referral link but I will also [TS]

01:33:38   put it in the show notes so if you go to [TS]

01:33:39   daring fireball the net and search for [TS]

01:33:41   my name or on that xix you will find [TS]

01:33:42   that siracusa posts that he made and [TS]

01:33:45   there's the referral link or I'll put it [TS]

01:33:48   in the show notes you can follow John as [TS]

01:33:50   siracusa nosy on Twitter and that's it [TS]

01:33:56   so we'll be back we'll be back regular [TS]

01:33:57   time next week I plan on next week I [TS]

01:34:00   will be on vacation yeah but you never [TS]

01:34:02   really take a vacation from this show is [TS]

01:34:04   what happened yeah I planned I'm [TS]

01:34:06   recording for vacation but I got word [TS]

01:34:07   from my brother who went down to the [TS]

01:34:09   beach house yesterday that the people [TS]

01:34:11   who own the beach house are planning to [TS]

01:34:13   sell it and have canceled their internet [TS]

01:34:15   access and we have no internet access [TS]

01:34:17   whatsoever so you're canceling the [TS]

01:34:19   vacation no we're gonna have to mix next [TS]

01:34:22   next week's show unless you find some [TS]

01:34:24   magical way to give me an internet [TS]

01:34:26   connection I would just assume like if [TS]

01:34:28   you're planning to go somewhere and you [TS]

01:34:30   discover that there's no internet you [TS]

01:34:32   can't have it vacations off yeah yeah no [TS]

01:34:34   but that's not that's an option [TS]

01:34:36   all right well actually let me look at [TS]

01:34:39   the calendar let me say we figure it [TS]

01:34:41   I'll be I'll be back you know what we [TS]

01:34:43   can do another weekend I'll give you a [TS]

01:34:44   weekend special again we'll do another [TS]

01:34:46   so yeah Saturday or Sunday are both open [TS]

01:34:49   so we could do weekend they will do [TS]

01:34:50   something special maybe this becomes you [TS]

01:34:52   know like a like a Sunday afternoon show [TS]

01:34:54   until things say equilibrium is restored [TS]

01:34:58   I told you about this vacation a long [TS]

01:34:59   time ago but yeah this is my one summer [TS]

01:35:01   vacation every year my wife and kids are [TS]

01:35:03   down there now actually I will be [TS]

01:35:04   joining them after a few more days work [TS]

01:35:06   well well the next time if you could [TS]

01:35:09   just clear it with me you know a couple [TS]

01:35:11   months in advance I did tell you about a [TS]

01:35:14   long time ago but you what did I say but [TS]

01:35:15   now the faith is there she'll keep track [TS]

01:35:17   of these oh she sure will she's gonna be [TS]

01:35:19   all right so listen everybody follow [TS]

01:35:20   John siracusa on Twitter you can follow [TS]

01:35:23   me on twitter dan benjamin and go to 5x5 [TS]

01:35:26   TV and and rate all of the well you [TS]

01:35:29   don't rate the shows there you can find [TS]

01:35:30   all of the old shows there you can rate [TS]

01:35:32   the show on iTunes which we appreciate [TS]

01:35:34   and go to 5x5 TV such contact which is [TS]

01:35:38   the appropriate place to send us an [TS]

01:35:41   explanation as to how to turn off that [TS]

01:35:43   useless graphical user interface tweak [TS]

01:35:46   in line and that's about it we'll see [TS]

01:35:51   y'all again next week [TS]

01:35:52   [Music] [TS]

01:36:00   you [TS]