28: Trust, But Verify


00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:02   you are listening to hypercritical [TS]

00:00:04   weekly talkshow ruminating on exactly [TS]

00:00:06   what is wrong in the world of Apple and [TS]

00:00:09   related technologies and businesses [TS]

00:00:10   nothing is so perfect cannot be [TS]

00:00:13   complained about by my co-host John [TS]

00:00:15   siracusa i'm dan benjamin this is [TS]

00:00:18   episode number 28 we'd like to say a [TS]

00:00:22   very quick thank you to one of our [TS]

00:00:24   sponsors campaign monitor they've just [TS]

00:00:26   released a gorgeous update to their [TS]

00:00:28   email editor letting you design even [TS]

00:00:29   more flexible email templates to [TS]

00:00:31   celebrate they're giving away a hundred [TS]

00:00:33   free templates by some of the best [TS]

00:00:35   designers on the web just go to campaign [TS]

00:00:37   monitor comm slash templates can also [TS]

00:00:40   catch a demo their new editor in action [TS]

00:00:42   at the same address go check them out [TS]

00:00:43   campaign manager calm templates [TS]

00:00:47   bandwidth for July 2011 has been [TS]

00:00:50   provided by - green technologies Virtual [TS]

00:00:53   Private servers submerged in oil check [TS]

00:00:56   them out at - green tech calm so John [TS]

00:00:59   this is a big week do you know why this [TS]

00:01:01   is a big week why is this a big week and [TS]

00:01:03   this is a big week because this is the [TS]

00:01:05   week after your Lian review came out and [TS]

00:01:08   a week after we did the week after we [TS]

00:01:12   did the show alright [TS]

00:01:15   it is this exciting stuff [TS]

00:01:19   sure and I have some good news for you [TS]

00:01:22   in fact I think I think this is you've [TS]

00:01:24   set a record here whether you know it or [TS]

00:01:26   not a big record got set more downloads [TS]

00:01:31   in one week of our last show than any [TS]

00:01:35   show in the history of this network 5x5 [TS]

00:01:38   power of lion Dan over 1 million [TS]

00:01:41   downloads of your show did you see the [TS]

00:01:44   email that I sent you I did I saw it [TS]

00:01:45   congratulations are in order to you sir [TS]

00:01:47   congratulations to you biggest week ever [TS]

00:01:50   biggest week of your life I don't know [TS]

00:01:53   about that but yeah sure it's a big week [TS]

00:01:56   come on did you laugh was that human a [TS]

00:01:58   human emotion coming through yeah it's [TS]

00:02:00   exciting you've updated your program see [TS]

00:02:02   how much of it is sustained you know [TS]

00:02:04   this is kind of a lumpy type of [TS]

00:02:06   phenomenon where once every two years [TS]

00:02:08   big review comes out lots of activity in [TS]

00:02:10   traffic and then it settles down so [TS]

00:02:12   we'll see I don't know I think we [TS]

00:02:13   you may have just earned yourself a [TS]

00:02:15   handful of new listeners in the process [TS]

00:02:17   I hope so I hope so too [TS]

00:02:20   I think so I know so I always wonder [TS]

00:02:24   what my like my glass ceiling is on [TS]

00:02:27   readers or listeners because the things [TS]

00:02:30   I talk about and the way I talk about [TS]

00:02:31   them probably have a pretty narrow [TS]

00:02:34   appeal so C is a with you I've you said [TS]

00:02:38   like how many people in the entire world [TS]

00:02:39   who are not related to me would be [TS]

00:02:41   interested in listening to me talk about [TS]

00:02:43   this stuff apparently quite a few well [TS]

00:02:46   and what percentage of that that we [TS]

00:02:47   already have the same thing with Apple [TS]

00:02:48   like you always wondering uh what could [TS]

00:02:51   Mac marketshare possibly be like what is [TS]

00:02:54   the what is the ceiling on that could it [TS]

00:02:55   ever be 90 percent 50 25 what is the [TS]

00:02:58   point after which Apple's philosophy of [TS]

00:03:01   making not the cheapest possible [TS]

00:03:05   computer that you can make when does [TS]

00:03:06   that become a limiting factor for them [TS]

00:03:08   you know what I mean same thing with me [TS]

00:03:09   so I think there's plenty of room for [TS]

00:03:11   both the Mac and me to grow well I think [TS]

00:03:14   I certainly think so I don't I don't [TS]

00:03:16   think you're anywhere near your glass [TS]

00:03:17   ceiling I always think about the people [TS]

00:03:20   who subscribe to Gruber's podcast and [TS]

00:03:23   read his thing and follow him on Twitter [TS]

00:03:25   and I wonder what percentage like if [TS]

00:03:30   someone follows John Gruber on Twitter I [TS]

00:03:31   say why isn't that person following me [TS]

00:03:32   because we talk about the same type of [TS]

00:03:34   things but he talked about them on his [TS]

00:03:36   website and I talked about them on [TS]

00:03:38   Twitter if you follow him on Twitter [TS]

00:03:39   you're hearing about baseball and you [TS]

00:03:42   know all sorts of other topics and he [TS]

00:03:43   doesn't even tweet that much maybe [TS]

00:03:45   that's why he has so many followers but [TS]

00:03:46   if you read his website he talks about [TS]

00:03:48   Apple stuff all the time if you follow [TS]

00:03:50   me on Twitter I talk about Apple stuff [TS]

00:03:52   all the time so I wonder what percentage [TS]

00:03:55   of his followers like that's probably [TS]

00:03:56   like my glass ceiling I could never [TS]

00:03:58   possibly have more than he has but of [TS]

00:04:00   the people who follow him and listen to [TS]

00:04:01   him it seems like there should be some [TS]

00:04:05   significant overlap between those people [TS]

00:04:08   and the people will be interested in [TS]

00:04:09   what I had to say so I have a long way [TS]

00:04:11   to go I would I think that makes sense [TS]

00:04:13   but in a way I mean what you do and what [TS]

00:04:17   he does I see him is very very different [TS]

00:04:19   very different things I mean he his [TS]

00:04:23   whole like for him Twitter is [TS]

00:04:27   at best supplementary but for you that's [TS]

00:04:30   sort of the primary way that you [TS]

00:04:31   communicate yeah it's true I mean it's [TS]

00:04:35   like you're second at my second email I [TS]

00:04:37   think that's like a a demerit though [TS]

00:04:40   because people don't like it when you [TS]

00:04:42   fill their Twitter feed with stuff it's [TS]

00:04:44   much easier to follow somebody who [TS]

00:04:46   tweets every couple of days one thing [TS]

00:04:49   you know you don't have the urge to [TS]

00:04:50   unfollow that person if they're not [TS]

00:04:53   filling your stream with a bunch of crap [TS]

00:04:54   whereas if you follow me every day [TS]

00:04:57   that's going to be wanted your tweets [TS]

00:04:58   probably and if you don't like those [TS]

00:05:00   wanted your tweets you like why am i [TS]

00:05:01   following this guy am i interested in a [TS]

00:05:03   stuff and yon fall you're saying you're [TS]

00:05:05   saying with you you know what you're [TS]

00:05:06   getting yet you're going to get kind of [TS]

00:05:07   occasionally geeky Apple related crap [TS]

00:05:12   yeah but it's I think it's similar to [TS]

00:05:15   the stuff that the Gruber posts just [TS]

00:05:17   without the bases yeah at least in his [TS]

00:05:19   linked list he'll a lot of the stories [TS]

00:05:21   that he has on his side I will also [TS]

00:05:23   tweet about and vice versa you know the [TS]

00:05:27   technology stories of the day related to [TS]

00:05:28   Apple so it's just a different medium to [TS]

00:05:32   get that information when you at least [TS]

00:05:34   for this week regardless of what your [TS]

00:05:36   glass ceiling is this week you are [TS]

00:05:40   number one revel in it yeah all those [TS]

00:05:45   people who subscribe should also leave a [TS]

00:05:47   review because my review count is still [TS]

00:05:49   way lower than the talk show as well a [TS]

00:05:50   lot of catching up to do [TS]

00:05:52   I mean I'm starting to catch you in [TS]

00:05:54   terms of Twitter followers though but I [TS]

00:05:55   I noticed that you did have a nice boost [TS]

00:05:57   there recently but you're still growing [TS]

00:05:59   faster so I don't think I'll ever catch [TS]

00:06:01   you I think that's okay I know I'm [TS]

00:06:06   always surprised because it's based on [TS]

00:06:09   you know based on the sort of polls that [TS]

00:06:12   I've done there are quite a few people [TS]

00:06:14   who listen to the shows that just don't [TS]

00:06:15   use Twitter don't don't do much on [TS]

00:06:17   Twitter yeah that's weird you know is [TS]

00:06:19   weird shame on them so so hold on [TS]

00:06:24   siracusa on twitter that's you right yep [TS]

00:06:28   that's me and just to keep the count [TS]

00:06:30   going good I'm Tam Benjamin on Twitter [TS]

00:06:32   we don't want John to get too far and I [TS]

00:06:34   think we should be tied let's try and [TS]

00:06:36   get tied well say I am that's the thing [TS]

00:06:40   about catching [TS]

00:06:41   anybody on Twitter if you look at the [TS]

00:06:42   growth graphs you think gee you know I'm [TS]

00:06:44   growing I'm getting these good boost but [TS]

00:06:46   then you look at somebody else who has [TS]

00:06:48   maybe 10 times as many followers and [TS]

00:06:49   they're growing even faster than you are [TS]

00:06:51   so you'll never catch them so we're [TS]

00:06:57   gonna talk about line smart today I [TS]

00:06:59   think we have two and the first thing I [TS]

00:07:01   have some a few all right I don't often [TS]

00:07:03   get to do the a few but or at least I [TS]

00:07:05   don't get to contribute as much I'd like [TS]

00:07:07   to start off by saying you and I both [TS]

00:07:09   last week me more than you even [TS]

00:07:12   complained about this this window [TS]

00:07:14   animation thing where you you're you're [TS]

00:07:17   running line you open a new window for [TS]

00:07:20   an app whether that's you know command [TS]

00:07:22   and to open a new window or whatever it [TS]

00:07:24   is right you run that and the window [TS]

00:07:28   starts at that little center point you [TS]

00:07:30   get this this animation that shows it [TS]

00:07:33   sort of growing from the center point of [TS]

00:07:34   where the fully grown window will be [TS]

00:07:36   right and you and I both said this thing [TS]

00:07:40   is this is the worst because it it [TS]

00:07:43   actually makes things feel slower you're [TS]

00:07:44   waiting and watching for window to open [TS]

00:07:46   and even if it takes exactly the same [TS]

00:07:48   amount of time as you said same amount [TS]

00:07:50   of time to open a new window that it [TS]

00:07:52   would without the animation the [TS]

00:07:53   animation somehow works to make it feel [TS]

00:07:55   slower so we got we said please tell us [TS]

00:07:57   how to get rid of this this is terrible [TS]

00:08:00   get rid of this thing and who was it [TS]

00:08:02   that wrote in to us we got an email and [TS]

00:08:03   I think I didn't know that you had [TS]

00:08:05   already tweeted I would have just [TS]

00:08:06   retweeted you but I we both sort of [TS]

00:08:08   tweeted it and the guy didn't say who [TS]

00:08:10   his twitter name was but it was his name [TS]

00:08:12   Trevor or something no it was it was [TS]

00:08:14   actually in the chat room and it was [TS]

00:08:16   either during the show or just after the [TS]

00:08:18   show I just wasn't paying enough [TS]

00:08:19   attention to the chat room moves Tomas [TS]

00:08:21   from Zen I'm so I don't know if I'm [TS]

00:08:23   mangling his last name it's tio mas F at [TS]

00:08:26   Twitter and I didn't see his Twitter [TS]

00:08:28   name yet so he posted it in the chat [TS]

00:08:29   room right he emailed us through the [TS]

00:08:31   feedback form and I believe he also [TS]

00:08:33   tweeted it so he blanketed all media I [TS]

00:08:35   believe he was the first one to tell us [TS]

00:08:36   about this thing and he actually you [TS]

00:08:38   didn't actually look it up or find it on [TS]

00:08:39   some web so whatever he did the thing [TS]

00:08:42   that people do to find these things [TS]

00:08:43   which is you just put a little hook in [TS]

00:08:45   one of the methods that reads from [TS]

00:08:47   property lists and then you try Gus [TS]

00:08:50   trigger the animation and see which [TS]

00:08:52   property list property it reads pretty [TS]

00:08:54   cool [TS]

00:08:55   yeah I think the way to do it there's [TS]

00:08:57   lots of different ways to do it so [TS]

00:08:57   obviously he's a programmer knows how to [TS]

00:08:59   I think he called it's whistling the [TS]

00:09:00   method but as Linda method swizzle is [TS]

00:09:03   such an overloaded word in computer [TS]

00:09:05   science if you go look up like the [TS]

00:09:06   Wikipedia page or google it or double [TS]

00:09:08   you'll see that swizzle has meant so [TS]

00:09:10   many different things in so many [TS]

00:09:11   different contexts but but yeah the [TS]

00:09:12   bottom line is you put a little hook in [TS]

00:09:13   so you can see when a method runs what [TS]

00:09:16   it's actually doing and he fent he [TS]

00:09:17   actually found the thing and then [TS]

00:09:19   shortly after that I tweeted it and and [TS]

00:09:21   then once I found his Twitter name I [TS]

00:09:23   gave him credit [TS]

00:09:24   through through his uh by putting his ad [TS]

00:09:28   name in the next follow-up and then you [TS]

00:09:29   tweeted it and then we got more and more [TS]

00:09:31   emails and started appearing in articles [TS]

00:09:32   and even as of today even this morning [TS]

00:09:34   people were still eating me and saying [TS]

00:09:36   hey I found this thing so thanks to [TS]

00:09:37   everybody who is sending in this tip [TS]

00:09:42   because it is a good one I actually put [TS]

00:09:43   it in the show notes for the last show [TS]

00:09:45   because like I said I found it right [TS]

00:09:46   after the show ended and I figured if [TS]

00:09:48   people go look at the show notes it's [TS]

00:09:49   good for them to see it I linked to the [TS]

00:09:52   secrets application website you know [TS]

00:09:55   about secrets yeah secrets is a great [TS]

00:09:56   app for people who don't know about it [TS]

00:09:57   it's essentially it's an app but it [TS]

00:09:59   shows up as a preference pane right [TS]

00:10:00   system pref yep and it it's called [TS]

00:10:04   secrets because it has all of these [TS]

00:10:06   secret or in some cases secret or [TS]

00:10:07   undocumented or little-known settings so [TS]

00:10:10   that instead of having an open terminal [TS]

00:10:11   and type you know default and then some [TS]

00:10:14   long string of characters which might [TS]

00:10:16   frighten some some people this presents [TS]

00:10:19   all of these great little tweaks and app [TS]

00:10:21   changes and undocumented you know things [TS]

00:10:25   that aren't available from applications [TS]

00:10:27   own preference panes it allows you to [TS]

00:10:29   just go in there check some boxes and it [TS]

00:10:31   even restarts things for you it's very [TS]

00:10:33   handy little app is it in Secret Santas [TS]

00:10:35   this in secret yeah that's where I mean [TS]

00:10:37   it was put in sequence by somebody else [TS]

00:10:39   it was put in by jens Aten or something [TS]

00:10:42   like that he's I believe he's the guy [TS]

00:10:44   who talking moose he's another [TS]

00:10:45   well-known Matt talker moose yeah so so [TS]

00:10:47   you can contribute or maybe just the [TS]

00:10:49   stickies app I don't know but you can [TS]

00:10:51   contribute to this database this is the [TS]

00:10:53   key feature of secrets is it's not just [TS]

00:10:54   a preference pane that as a list of [TS]

00:10:56   stuff it reads from an online database [TS]

00:10:59   of Secrets that anyone can contribute to [TS]

00:11:01   so you download the secret application [TS]

00:11:02   once and you just hit the little update [TS]

00:11:04   secrets button and within it and it will [TS]

00:11:06   pull the latest set of secrets that [TS]

00:11:07   people have figured out from [TS]

00:11:08   this shared database it's much better [TS]

00:11:10   than remembering this side had this tip [TS]

00:11:12   and this side have that tip or googling [TS]

00:11:13   for what you think it is eventually all [TS]

00:11:15   these things find their way into secrets [TS]

00:11:17   and you can search in real-time and find [TS]

00:11:19   the things that have the keywords if you [TS]

00:11:20   just search for animation or something [TS]

00:11:21   you would find this one you can see and [TS]

00:11:23   it's not just for the system it's for [TS]

00:11:25   individual applications like they have [TS]

00:11:26   ones for members looking to list now [TS]

00:11:28   they have ones for the DVD player for [TS]

00:11:30   the fission app for acorn just [TS]

00:11:33   third-party apps Apple apps everything [TS]

00:11:35   so I highly so I highly recommend [TS]

00:11:38   secrets it's in the show notes or if [TS]

00:11:40   it's not I'll put it there it's a secret [TS]

00:11:41   stop black tree comm great a little [TS]

00:11:43   great little app yep it's a good tip [TS]

00:11:45   shame on them for not sponsoring oh wait [TS]

00:11:47   they can it's free so that's alright [TS]

00:11:49   great tip though and it's in there now [TS]

00:11:52   that's what you're saying so we've been [TS]

00:11:53   getting a lot of emails from people [TS]

00:11:55   still saying have you have you heard [TS]

00:11:57   this is how you do it so we appreciate [TS]

00:12:00   all of those is what you're also seeing [TS]

00:12:01   right we thank you for sale because we [TS]

00:12:03   asked to be told and you know they told [TS]

00:12:05   us at the magic of the podcast that [TS]

00:12:06   shows the power of hypercritical versus [TS]

00:12:08   the power of the article that millions [TS]

00:12:10   of people read and nobody knows about [TS]

00:12:12   the fact that I had said I really look [TS]

00:12:14   forward to knowing this usually when I [TS]

00:12:15   ask for something within a Mac os10 [TS]

00:12:17   review I got a flood of evil nobody sent [TS]

00:12:19   an email I was afraid that those citing [TS]

00:12:20   didn't even exist but then the show [TS]

00:12:22   mention it once immediately we get the [TS]

00:12:24   answer so maybe you should quit writing [TS]

00:12:26   and just do more shows yeah maybe so [TS]

00:12:30   we should also mention there were a [TS]

00:12:31   handful of people I I don't remember if [TS]

00:12:33   there's email more or Twitter but it in [TS]

00:12:35   in one or both of those places a number [TS]

00:12:37   of people said to me you know the the [TS]

00:12:41   typical dead volt devil's advocate which [TS]

00:12:43   is not only don't they make it seem [TS]

00:12:46   slower they are clarifying the meaning [TS]

00:12:49   of what's happening and we have tons and [TS]

00:12:51   tons of people on our network or in [TS]

00:12:53   where we work or whatever it is wherever [TS]

00:12:55   this person or people have you that this [TS]

00:12:58   actually clarifies what's going on that [TS]

00:13:00   there are so many people out there who [TS]

00:13:01   they click something and they don't they [TS]

00:13:03   don't know that a window is opening and [TS]

00:13:05   they sit there wondering for a long time [TS]

00:13:06   has a window opened is something [TS]

00:13:09   happening I don't know I saw some [TS]

00:13:12   windows person talking about that and [TS]

00:13:14   the windows person had a good point as [TS]

00:13:15   it relates to windows I don't use [TS]

00:13:16   windows much but I use it enough to [TS]

00:13:18   understand what this person was saying [TS]

00:13:20   it was the when you use Windows [TS]

00:13:22   especially older versions of Windows [TS]

00:13:23   Windows 7 is apparently better in this [TS]

00:13:25   regard and I never used SS I don't know [TS]

00:13:27   but like an XP and earlier versions if [TS]

00:13:30   you did something in Windows opened an [TS]

00:13:32   application either by double-clicking it [TS]

00:13:34   or by clicking a little the taskbar icon [TS]

00:13:36   in the taskbar the quick launch area or [TS]

00:13:38   anything like that you'd click it and [TS]

00:13:41   you'd be like nothing what happened on [TS]

00:13:43   the screen you would say well it did it [TS]

00:13:45   register that quick that I did I miss is [TS]

00:13:46   it is the application launching like [TS]

00:13:48   there's no bouncing dock icon there was [TS]

00:13:50   no little rubber band animation of the [TS]

00:13:52   application opening and you get in a [TS]

00:13:54   situation where people would doubt and [TS]

00:13:56   then click again and then you've ended [TS]

00:13:57   up with two instances of IE launching [TS]

00:13:59   instead of one because you weren't sure [TS]

00:14:00   if the first one registered or not [TS]

00:14:01   there's there was long delay between the [TS]

00:14:03   time you click in the time something [TS]

00:14:04   happens and during that time nothing [TS]

00:14:06   visual is happening on the screen now [TS]

00:14:08   the Mac has never suffered from that [TS]

00:14:10   problem because of course I'm Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:14:11   you had a little bouncing and that is [TS]

00:14:12   clear indicator that yeah yeah we got [TS]

00:14:14   your click we're trying to do what it is [TS]

00:14:16   the us but it's going to take a while [TS]

00:14:17   meanwhile watch this little thing bounce [TS]

00:14:18   so it's a clear indication that [TS]

00:14:20   something is happening and then the old [TS]

00:14:21   classic Mac OS when you double-click [TS]

00:14:22   from application there would be this [TS]

00:14:24   little rubber band animation which be [TS]

00:14:25   basically like an outline of a rectangle [TS]

00:14:28   that would start small at the origin of [TS]

00:14:30   your click and get bigger and bigger and [TS]

00:14:31   bigger to show you hey this thing that [TS]

00:14:32   you double clicked it's launching now [TS]

00:14:34   and in the very old days despite the [TS]

00:14:37   fact this rubber band animation was [TS]

00:14:39   there from day one you could also hear [TS]

00:14:40   the floppy disk grunt you know and or [TS]

00:14:42   the activity light blinking there was [TS]

00:14:43   always some sort of visual physical [TS]

00:14:44   indication that your thing started but [TS]

00:14:48   Windows kind of got into that [TS]

00:14:49   uncomfortable zone where the physical [TS]

00:14:50   manifestations of your action became [TS]

00:14:52   less obvious because hard drives got [TS]

00:14:54   tucked away inside the machines activity [TS]

00:14:56   lights weren't as obvious the computer [TS]

00:14:57   was behind the monitor or under the desk [TS]

00:15:00   or something floppy disks went away and [TS]

00:15:02   you couldn't really tell is something [TS]

00:15:04   happening out and that's one of the [TS]

00:15:06   things that people talked about the [TS]

00:15:07   other one was that specific animation [TS]

00:15:10   that we were complaining about in a [TS]

00:15:11   specific animation that I had a video up [TS]

00:15:13   in my review was an instance of a window [TS]

00:15:16   starting from a small dot in its final [TS]

00:15:20   position and zooming to its full size so [TS]

00:15:21   there was no indication of where this [TS]

00:15:23   window came from it's like this window [TS]

00:15:24   is going to appear at this position and [TS]

00:15:25   it will start its small deposition and [TS]

00:15:27   eventually get full size in that [TS]

00:15:28   position so the animation my argument [TS]

00:15:30   argument was there was not giving you [TS]

00:15:32   any additional information it wasn't [TS]

00:15:33   saying [TS]

00:15:34   from where did this window come from it [TS]

00:15:36   was just saying here's the window it's [TS]

00:15:38   going to appear here and have the window [TS]

00:15:39   appeared fully formed in that same [TS]

00:15:41   position it would have provided the same [TS]

00:15:42   information [TS]

00:15:44   one person argued that they liked the [TS]

00:15:46   animation because it draws your eye more [TS]

00:15:50   than if the window just appeared by [TS]

00:15:52   itself I would say that that's one of [TS]

00:15:56   the things against it because you do [TS]

00:15:57   want to know that a new window appeared [TS]

00:15:59   on the screen but this window is going [TS]

00:16:01   to appear in front of all other windows [TS]

00:16:02   anyway [TS]

00:16:03   and by by animating it draws your eye [TS]

00:16:07   too much I think the idea was that like [TS]

00:16:10   when you hit command end which is what I [TS]

00:16:11   was doing that video there's no origin [TS]

00:16:13   like it's not the window doesn't fly out [TS]

00:16:14   of your keyboard there's no way you can [TS]

00:16:15   animate from where you the command but [TS]

00:16:18   when you type command then the computer [TS]

00:16:19   has no idea where you're looking and [TS]

00:16:20   that was the person's argument was like [TS]

00:16:23   yeah it has no idea where you're looking [TS]

00:16:24   so it's trying to say hey this is where [TS]

00:16:25   the window is going to appear to [TS]

00:16:26   indicate to you where it's going to [TS]

00:16:27   appear well because it doesn't know [TS]

00:16:29   where I'm looking say I'm looking [TS]

00:16:30   elsewhere because I'm doing some other [TS]

00:16:33   tasks that's the beauty of keyboard [TS]

00:16:34   commands that you can fire off command [TS]

00:16:36   end from muscle memory while also [TS]

00:16:38   starting your next task which is looking [TS]

00:16:40   over to the side to drag an icon or [TS]

00:16:41   looking in another window or reading [TS]

00:16:42   something and as soon as that animation [TS]

00:16:44   appears your eyes are drawn towards [TS]

00:16:46   where the animation is you're losing the [TS]

00:16:48   advantage of being able to fire off [TS]

00:16:50   command end to make a new window while [TS]

00:16:52   you're in the middle well you're [TS]

00:16:53   immediately off doing some of the tasks [TS]

00:16:55   like you you initiate the macro in your [TS]

00:16:57   head which makes your fingers do command [TS]

00:16:58   then and as soon as you issue that [TS]

00:17:00   command it's like fire and forget you're [TS]

00:17:01   off to your next task but as soon as the [TS]

00:17:03   animation starts playing the primordial [TS]

00:17:05   lizard brain mammalian avoid the [TS]

00:17:09   saber-toothed tiger hunting you sorry [TS]

00:17:10   please don't write me in saber-toothed [TS]

00:17:12   Tigers did not live at the same time as [TS]

00:17:13   humans I'm sorry you know makes your eye [TS]

00:17:16   it makes your eye be drawn to this [TS]

00:17:18   animation the car like what animation it [TS]

00:17:20   more so than just the window appearing [TS]

00:17:22   so in addition to it feeling slow it's [TS]

00:17:26   it's pulling your eye away from what you [TS]

00:17:28   were trying to do now the same people [TS]

00:17:30   point out that if you go to the file [TS]

00:17:31   menu and select new the animation begins [TS]

00:17:33   at the file menu and I think that's [TS]

00:17:35   actually useful animation because who's [TS]

00:17:37   going to the file menu and selecting [TS]

00:17:38   file new novice users right and not as [TS]

00:17:41   users are the wanting to do the most [TS]

00:17:42   hand-holding to understand this command [TS]

00:17:44   that you initiated has produced this [TS]

00:17:46   window so that animation starts [TS]

00:17:48   from the menu that you just use and the [TS]

00:17:50   window you know the animation slides [TS]

00:17:53   over to where the window is finally [TS]

00:17:54   going to appear connecting your action [TS]

00:17:56   with the resulting window but advanced [TS]

00:17:58   users are the ones who are all going to [TS]

00:17:59   be hitting command in and they don't [TS]

00:18:01   need their I've drawn tour the new [TS]

00:18:02   window appears because they know new [TS]

00:18:04   window is going to appear it's good to [TS]

00:18:06   be on top of all other windows anyway [TS]

00:18:07   unless it's a microscopic window which I [TS]

00:18:09   Mac os10 really doesn't like you to make [TS]

00:18:11   small windows anyway it's going to be [TS]

00:18:12   obvious where it appears that animation [TS]

00:18:15   is the one that drives me nuts because I [TS]

00:18:17   make new documents all the time and be [TS]

00:18:18   the editor you know any other thing [TS]

00:18:20   constantly making new texts windows for [TS]

00:18:23   just scratch areas and discarding them [TS]

00:18:24   and making new ones so I'm very glad [TS]

00:18:27   that this animation could be turned off [TS]

00:18:30   some of the other animations like the [TS]

00:18:32   bounce animation where the dialog comes [TS]

00:18:34   up with it it animates from its small [TS]

00:18:37   size to a size slightly larger limits [TS]

00:18:39   final size and then shrinks back down [TS]

00:18:41   sorta like it's bouncing at you for [TS]

00:18:43   alerts and errors and stuff like that [TS]

00:18:45   since they're rare and you're and [TS]

00:18:47   they're not manually initiated they have [TS]

00:18:50   slightly more of a reason to draw your [TS]

00:18:53   attention especially for novice users [TS]

00:18:55   who might not even notice that a dialog [TS]

00:18:57   appeared for advanced users I still like [TS]

00:18:59   the ability to turn that off but it's [TS]

00:19:02   not the same thing as user initiated [TS]

00:19:05   action triggering an animation and makes [TS]

00:19:07   things feel slower so I will definitely [TS]

00:19:09   have this setting turned off yeah I [TS]

00:19:13   turned it off now do you think that the [TS]

00:19:16   inspiration for this came to kind of [TS]

00:19:19   create I mean you were I feel like you [TS]

00:19:21   were leading up to this to create parody [TS]

00:19:23   you know when you when you double-click [TS]

00:19:25   a file let's say you've got a text file [TS]

00:19:27   on your desktop and you double click it [TS]

00:19:28   there's sort of that animation of the [TS]

00:19:29   text file flying toward you you know [TS]

00:19:33   what I'm saying the icon getting a [TS]

00:19:34   little bigger yeah that's just indicate [TS]

00:19:37   that it registered your click it doesn't [TS]

00:19:38   it doesn't fly towards where the [TS]

00:19:40   document will appear no it just sort of [TS]

00:19:41   just jumps toward you yeah do you feel [TS]

00:19:44   that this is somehow getting parity with [TS]

00:19:46   that in some way no it's just an [TS]

00:19:49   addition of animation like they love [TS]

00:19:50   animation ever since core animation was [TS]

00:19:52   introduced they've been adding it [TS]

00:19:53   everywhere they possibly can [TS]

00:19:54   core animation just makes it a little [TS]

00:19:55   bit too easy I think to add animation [TS]

00:19:57   because you're like you know what this [TS]

00:19:58   is an animatable property why not [TS]

00:20:00   animate it it's really easy from a [TS]

00:20:01   program [TS]

00:20:02   perspective now to animate stuff so they [TS]

00:20:04   have their they have to think less hard [TS]

00:20:06   about well do we really want this [TS]

00:20:08   animation because it's going to be a lot [TS]

00:20:09   of work to make it it's not a lot of [TS]

00:20:10   work and you end up with animations [TS]

00:20:12   everywhere and sometimes they go over [TS]

00:20:14   the line a little bit so I'll let's do [TS]

00:20:18   our first sponsor and you know what [TS]

00:20:20   what's cool is if you're in the chat [TS]

00:20:22   room if you join us live sometimes we do [TS]

00:20:24   things like this when when we have like [TS]

00:20:26   especially like when we have an iOS [TS]

00:20:27   sponsor they're going to be given we [TS]

00:20:29   have a whole bunch of codes to give away [TS]

00:20:34   faith is going to be putting those into [TS]

00:20:36   the not all of them this time we get to [TS]

00:20:38   spread them out over some the other [TS]

00:20:39   shows but she'll be putting a few into [TS]

00:20:41   the into the chat room so if you're not [TS]

00:20:43   in the chat room go join the chat room [TS]

00:20:44   you can go to five by five dot TV slash [TS]

00:20:46   live and there's like a button that says [TS]

00:20:48   chat with us or link or something go [TS]

00:20:50   there and faith will be dropping these [TS]

00:20:52   and sometimes you do it over Twitter [TS]

00:20:54   today we're going to do some in the [TS]

00:20:55   chatroom [TS]

00:20:56   and the sponsor is WX now this is a by [TS]

00:21:01   company called hunter research and [TS]

00:21:03   technology we've had some their apps on [TS]

00:21:04   there they do really really cool apps [TS]

00:21:05   they do iOS apps and Matt Capps and what [TS]

00:21:08   I'm going to tell you about mainly today [TS]

00:21:09   is WX this is an award-winning US [TS]

00:21:12   weather app I know we have some [TS]

00:21:13   international you know listeners so [TS]

00:21:16   maybe you get a pressure this guy to do [TS]

00:21:17   an international version but it's a US [TS]

00:21:19   weather app it works on the Mac iPad [TS]

00:21:21   iPhone it was a name to 2009 Mac Jim by [TS]

00:21:24   Mac world magazine [TS]

00:21:25   gyro lens it's another one is an [TS]

00:21:27   innovative camera that levels photos in [TS]

00:21:29   real time it puts an end to crooked [TS]

00:21:31   shots I'm guilty of that especially the [TS]

00:21:33   iPhone and theodolite now this is a cool [TS]

00:21:37   app this is the one that makes your [TS]

00:21:39   iPhone or your iPad into essentially [TS]

00:21:41   into luke skywalker's viewfinder from [TS]

00:21:45   Empire Strikes Back in the beginning you [TS]

00:21:47   know when he's out there with the [TS]

00:21:48   imperial probe droid you know I'm [TS]

00:21:51   talking about John or you often I do I [TS]

00:21:52   was considering whether I should do my [TS]

00:21:54   imitation of the probe droid but that's [TS]

00:21:56   about it [TS]

00:21:56   I don't know we gotta have got excited [TS]

00:21:58   not to okay it shows over so you can try [TS]

00:22:01   it when I'm sorry I mean that's pretty [TS]

00:22:05   good moves he rears no all right so this [TS]

00:22:10   is this is a top-selling one I have to [TS]

00:22:12   tell you I went to I went to the Dollar [TS]

00:22:14   W axon I said listen [TS]

00:22:16   I said that this theodolite ye you've [TS]

00:22:21   got to make a game out of this because [TS]

00:22:24   I'll sit there I'll put this on on my [TS]

00:22:26   boys iPad or on his on he has a little [TS]

00:22:29   iPhone it's like a game he can run [TS]

00:22:30   around you know like I said if you just [TS]

00:22:32   had something that shot you know could [TS]

00:22:33   shoot things you know it would be like a [TS]

00:22:36   virtual reality you know like a [TS]

00:22:37   augmented reality kind of game is that I [TS]

00:22:39   don't know if that would sell but anyway [TS]

00:22:41   so if you want that you can pressure [TS]

00:22:42   them into it but this has this is like a [TS]

00:22:44   viewfinder with a rangefinder and int [TS]

00:22:46   in-clinic inclinometer how do you say [TS]

00:22:48   that a compass a GPS map I mean it's got [TS]

00:22:50   everything so you can find out about all [TS]

00:22:52   of this stuff read about their [TS]

00:22:54   development services they do that too at [TS]

00:22:56   HRT apps comm go check them out if [TS]

00:22:59   you're in the chatroom faith will give [TS]

00:23:01   out now you know faith maybe give out [TS]

00:23:03   one of the one of the wx4 Mac one of the [TS]

00:23:06   iPad ones one of the gyro Lynch just [TS]

00:23:07   like one of each drop well maybe a [TS]

00:23:09   couple of the theodolite [TS]

00:23:13   that's it thanks to them for sponsoring [TS]

00:23:15   HRT APSCo I'm looking at that app on the [TS]

00:23:18   website it really does look like it [TS]

00:23:20   really does the thing from it's almost [TS]

00:23:22   like that he could make extra money if [TS]

00:23:25   you actually licensed from Lucasfilm the [TS]

00:23:26   exact appearance of that thing I'm [TS]

00:23:29   surprised he doesn't get sued already [TS]

00:23:30   because it's it's close but not it's [TS]

00:23:32   different enough George Lee has bigger [TS]

00:23:34   fish to fry [TS]

00:23:35   he's worried more about who shot first [TS]

00:23:36   yeah or that guy making a prop helmets [TS]

00:23:40   for stormtroopers right did you rate [TS]

00:23:42   that started this big you know do we [TS]

00:23:44   have that in a show no it's tell people [TS]

00:23:45   what you're talking about [TS]

00:23:45   so some one of the guys who made the [TS]

00:23:47   original helmets for Star Wars to start [TS]

00:23:50   stormtrooper helmets decided that he was [TS]

00:23:53   employed he was employed by Lucas to [TS]

00:23:55   make these things isn't right he worked [TS]

00:23:56   there and he still had the mold from [TS]

00:23:59   when he made the original ones that [TS]

00:24:00   appear in the movies who is it hey I bet [TS]

00:24:01   I could clean up these molds and make a [TS]

00:24:02   couple sure enough stormtrooper helmets [TS]

00:24:04   and sell them and of course Lucas gets [TS]

00:24:06   wind of it and is all cranky and tries [TS]

00:24:07   to sue him and he eventually won his [TS]

00:24:09   case that he is allowed to make and sell [TS]

00:24:13   these helmets from these molds because I [TS]

00:24:15   guess a lot of the reason he won is that [TS]

00:24:17   he's not in the US he's in the UK and he [TS]

00:24:20   has no assets in the US so US laws don't [TS]

00:24:22   apply to him and probably his employment [TS]

00:24:24   contract with Lucy Lucas was such that [TS]

00:24:26   Lucas didn't say oh we reserve the [TS]

00:24:27   rights to all these molds and you don't [TS]

00:24:28   know [TS]

00:24:29   blah blah like a modern contract would [TS]

00:24:30   have said they just hired him to do it [TS]

00:24:32   and didn't claim ownership of those [TS]

00:24:35   molds or the intellectual property that [TS]

00:24:37   they represent you know so it's kind of [TS]

00:24:39   a victory against the Empire for this [TS]

00:24:41   one guy and he's it's not like he's [TS]

00:24:42   becoming a millionaire all but he was [TS]

00:24:44   just selling something to make some [TS]

00:24:45   money I should find that link put in the [TS]

00:24:49   show no did you buy one no you did come [TS]

00:24:51   on oh there that's I think they're [TS]

00:24:53   expensive is that magic so is your [TS]

00:24:56   plasma TV yeah but the plasma TV or [TS]

00:25:00   watch every day and I get you know what [TS]

00:25:01   I have a prediction for what's going to [TS]

00:25:03   happen next WWDC someone's gonna get me [TS]

00:25:06   an actual storm trip round how much of [TS]

00:25:08   these things will work on it well race [TS]

00:25:10   it will do for now I think I think [TS]

00:25:11   they're thousands of dollars because I [TS]

00:25:12   guess they're collectors would you wear [TS]

00:25:13   it like everyday to or to and from work [TS]

00:25:18   yeah like I had like you know in the [TS]

00:25:19   1940s and 50s and you know any any man [TS]

00:25:22   who had any kind of decency would be [TS]

00:25:24   wearing a nice fedora would you wear [TS]

00:25:26   would you wear this to work as you can [TS]

00:25:27   no I think I displayed a sculpture I [TS]

00:25:29   think that was part of the trial like in [TS]

00:25:31   arguing whether it was a piece of [TS]

00:25:32   sculpture like art or whether it was a [TS]

00:25:34   costume or something like that would you [TS]

00:25:36   ever wear a full a full you know like a [TS]

00:25:39   full on stormtrooper suit I don't I [TS]

00:25:43   can't think of any context when that [TS]

00:25:44   would happen like a comic-con if we send [TS]

00:25:46   you two packs or comic-con or something [TS]

00:25:48   yeah but I wouldn't like I'm not one of [TS]

00:25:50   those people who dresses up that's what [TS]

00:25:51   I'm trying to find out if you are know [TS]

00:25:53   when you LARP you dress up though [TS]

00:25:56   you're the LARPing on me I've never LARP [TS]

00:25:58   so you say really Aven I did go to a [TS]

00:26:03   Medieval Faire as a kid does that count [TS]

00:26:05   I wasn't role-playing but I just up as a [TS]

00:26:09   knight I was 10 years old it wasn't that [TS]

00:26:13   weird everybody dressed up to hold the [TS]

00:26:15   whole class we had to get we had to [TS]

00:26:17   dress it you know we had to make our art [TS]

00:26:19   you know uniforms and whatever they were [TS]

00:26:22   you know so some people went as a knight [TS]

00:26:25   some people went is you know a jester or [TS]

00:26:28   whatever I don't know whatever it goes [TS]

00:26:29   on I didn't care everybody was dressed [TS]

00:26:32   up I was 10 years old then someone threw [TS]

00:26:33   up on the bus on the way home it was the [TS]

00:26:35   worst thing and the way the teacher [TS]

00:26:36   tried to counteract this the way she [TS]

00:26:39   tried to mask the smell of the vomit on [TS]

00:26:41   the tour bus on [TS]

00:26:42   the way home on the three-hour drive [TS]

00:26:43   home from Sarasota back to South Florida [TS]

00:26:46   was to spray her perfume which combined [TS]

00:26:50   with the smell of vomit and became [TS]

00:26:52   something much much worse [TS]

00:26:54   that's called childhood Dan well this is [TS]

00:26:57   the closest thing to lie this is my [TS]

00:26:58   LARPing experience we didn't roleplay [TS]

00:27:00   although I was knighted I'll bet you're [TS]

00:27:04   not in the way you've ended is that code [TS]

00:27:06   for something no it's not absolutely not [TS]

00:27:09   far as I know alright so what other [TS]

00:27:12   topics about lion do you want to cover I [TS]

00:27:14   have a big list here but you can pick [TS]

00:27:16   your allow me to read off my lesson you [TS]

00:27:17   can pick which one yes of course [TS]

00:27:19   okay sandboxing Ark HFS+ wait slow down [TS]

00:27:22   hold on sandboxing Ark I think you [TS]

00:27:25   covered Ark well beyond where I want to [TS]

00:27:27   I mean that you killed that in the [TS]

00:27:28   article I don't want to do that you [TS]

00:27:31   wanna do it at all [TS]

00:27:31   no all right well we'll see if they will [TS]

00:27:34   see if there's a revolt from the [TS]

00:27:35   listeners I did get a lot of questions [TS]

00:27:36   about it high DPI stuff the linking [TS]

00:27:40   general linking in the article and then [TS]

00:27:44   any other topics that I didn't cover in [TS]

00:27:46   the review that you want to talk about [TS]

00:27:47   well I would definitely like to talk [TS]

00:27:49   about sandboxing because I don't I think [TS]

00:27:51   I think it's an interesting topic I [TS]

00:27:53   think they've done a lot of work behind [TS]

00:27:54   the scenes on it and I think it's [TS]

00:27:55   something that regular human beings [TS]

00:27:58   would actually benefit from even though [TS]

00:28:00   none of them listen to the show [TS]

00:28:02   that this is something that people could [TS]

00:28:03   know about somebody else covered our cut [TS]

00:28:05   that was it Marco I think we talked [TS]

00:28:07   about it I don't to be honest I kind of [TS]

00:28:09   tuned out during the arc stuff no [TS]

00:28:12   sandboxing I mean a little bit but not [TS]

00:28:16   that not the way you do yeah I'll cover [TS]

00:28:19   I think it's gonna become you really [TS]

00:28:20   want to talk about our fine your show [TS]

00:28:22   I'll do whatever you want it's your shot [TS]

00:28:24   I'll talk about that monster million [TS]

00:28:26   downloads we're on for the people who [TS]

00:28:28   don't listen to Marco show or whatever [TS]

00:28:31   show this was on so sandboxing is a [TS]

00:28:35   feature that existed in a more limited [TS]

00:28:37   form and Snow Leopard I was introduced [TS]

00:28:39   in Snow Leopard I think and Apple mostly [TS]

00:28:41   use it for their daemon processes so the [TS]

00:28:44   dog demon processes are processes that [TS]

00:28:46   run in the background continuously [TS]

00:28:47   either when you're logged in or just [TS]

00:28:50   continuously when the machine is booted [TS]

00:28:52   and they perform services like they this [TS]

00:28:54   font demons and [TS]

00:28:56   caching demons and all sorts of things [TS]

00:28:57   that other processes communicate with to [TS]

00:29:00   get information about the system I and [TS]

00:29:03   since this possible time since a lot of [TS]

00:29:05   them run will either be except to both [TS]

00:29:09   will use file or the whole fast or [TS]

00:29:11   whatever good day hang on a sec your [TS]

00:29:14   your audio is breaking up on me what are [TS]

00:29:16   you doing there are you on the files [TS]

00:29:19   it's not I'm on class is it Mac or C no [TS]

00:29:23   it's not your mic it's uh let me try it [TS]

00:29:25   let me try it back maybe skype is [TS]

00:29:27   playing games with us alright [TS]

00:29:29   I am we'll get him back yeah see we [TS]

00:29:33   gonna make two of each face you can do [TS]

00:29:45   two of each trying to John back here [TS]

00:29:50   this is connecting and ever you know you [TS]

00:29:54   never know what what the cause could be [TS]

00:29:56   with Skype which we could move away from [TS]

00:29:59   Skype entirely and I have to I have to [TS]

00:30:02   be honest this I could be this stupid on [TS]

00:30:04   this stupid router what they gave us can [TS]

00:30:10   they still hear us in the chat room see [TS]

00:30:15   this is that's terrible who knows it who [TS]

00:30:19   knows what this is I am I'm really [TS]

00:30:25   getting a really getting fed up with [TS]

00:30:26   this thing John I say we have to blame [TS]

00:30:32   this on your end no this is this is [TS]

00:30:34   definitely my on that time now there's [TS]

00:30:37   something weird it's like it I've got it [TS]

00:30:39   I've got to go in and mess with this [TS]

00:30:40   router that they gave me it's a piece of [TS]

00:30:41   piece of garbage and I have to get them [TS]

00:30:44   to change it out or something because it [TS]

00:30:45   periodically it's like everything will [TS]

00:30:47   be fine and then you'll then you'll lose [TS]

00:30:50   it a little like the DHCP lease will [TS]

00:30:53   expire and you won't renew I'll have to [TS]

00:30:56   go in and network preferences and renew [TS]

00:30:57   it now what is that don't know low [TS]

00:31:01   quality weapon seriously what I send you [TS]

00:31:05   this stuff anyway we don't need to waste [TS]

00:31:06   time so please continue your thought I'm [TS]

00:31:08   sorry too [TS]

00:31:09   sub sandboxing so as I was saying [TS]

00:31:11   sandboxing was introduced in snow [TS]

00:31:14   leopard as a way to isolate demon [TS]

00:31:17   processes to some degree I don't [TS]

00:31:19   remember what the details of the [TS]

00:31:20   sandboxing were but you could limit [TS]

00:31:22   their privileges in a few ways it wasn't [TS]

00:31:25   really promoted as a feature for [TS]

00:31:28   application developers yet it was just a [TS]

00:31:30   framework for making demon processes not [TS]

00:31:34   be able to have full access to the file [TS]

00:31:36   system or be able to do you know [TS]

00:31:38   everything that our process can normally [TS]

00:31:40   do with the privileges of a super user [TS]

00:31:42   whatever user it's running it so in Lion [TS]

00:31:45   they've greatly expanded the sandboxing [TS]

00:31:47   and are now promoting it for use by [TS]

00:31:50   applications and the idea is that [TS]

00:31:52   applications have to declare the things [TS]

00:31:56   that they're expected to do so if you [TS]

00:31:59   have an application that expects to open [TS]

00:32:01   a network connection you would say I [TS]

00:32:03   need to be able to open network [TS]

00:32:05   connections or every application expects [TS]

00:32:06   incoming network connections it says I [TS]

00:32:08   need to be able to open a port to listen [TS]

00:32:10   for incoming network connections I need [TS]

00:32:11   access to the movies folder because [TS]

00:32:13   that's where I'm going to read stuff [TS]

00:32:15   from or I need access to the user's home [TS]

00:32:17   directory or you know it is not that [TS]

00:32:20   many omits not really fine-grain I think [TS]

00:32:22   there's only like 30 or something you [TS]

00:32:24   know there's less than 100 of these [TS]

00:32:25   entitlements they're called where you [TS]

00:32:27   declare what your application is [TS]

00:32:28   supposed to do and as part of the Mac [TS]

00:32:33   App Store review process come November [TS]

00:32:35   your application must be sandbox and [TS]

00:32:37   what that means is that if you submit to [TS]

00:32:39   the Mac App Store after November you [TS]

00:32:41   must have Sam bossing enabled and then [TS]

00:32:42   you must have this list of entitlements [TS]

00:32:44   that say what your application is [TS]

00:32:45   expected to do and you can't just say [TS]

00:32:47   okay fine I'll list all the entitlements [TS]

00:32:49   because then I don't have to worry about [TS]

00:32:50   the sandbox so much I said I just need [TS]

00:32:51   access to everything I need access so [TS]

00:32:53   the whole file system may need access to [TS]

00:32:54   the network everything everything what [TS]

00:32:56   do what Apple will do in the review [TS]

00:32:57   process is say you know hey this is a [TS]

00:33:00   weather application why do you need [TS]

00:33:04   access Y do you need to open a port for [TS]

00:33:06   listening on the network why do you need [TS]

00:33:08   to complete access to the file system [TS]

00:33:09   for your weather application and they'll [TS]

00:33:12   reject it and they'll say it doesn't [TS]

00:33:13   seem like your application should need [TS]

00:33:16   this entitlement to do its job please [TS]

00:33:18   explain to us why you think it does and [TS]

00:33:20   what they're trying to do is reduce the [TS]

00:33:22   surface area [TS]

00:33:23   of attack so that if one of these [TS]

00:33:25   applications is exploited by a buffer [TS]

00:33:27   overflow or some other kind of bug you [TS]

00:33:29   can only do the things that the [TS]

00:33:32   application is it restricted to doing so [TS]

00:33:35   if the application doesn't need to open [TS]

00:33:36   a network port as far as normal [TS]

00:33:38   operation if the application is [TS]

00:33:39   exploited the X point can open a network [TS]

00:33:41   port either now to go further than that [TS]

00:33:45   what they also want application [TS]

00:33:47   developers to do is something called [TS]

00:33:48   privilege separation where instead of [TS]

00:33:49   having deciding what their application [TS]

00:33:51   has to do it has to read and write files [TS]

00:33:53   it has to talk on the network it has to [TS]

00:33:54   you know have access to the camera and [TS]

00:33:57   the microphone whatever things that the [TS]

00:33:59   application needs to do instead of [TS]

00:34:01   taking that and saying let me just make [TS]

00:34:02   a list and then give my application [TS]

00:34:04   these entitlements that what Apple wants [TS]

00:34:05   you to do is to break up your [TS]

00:34:06   application into individual sort of sub [TS]

00:34:10   programs or sub applications that only [TS]

00:34:13   do a specific task so for example an [TS]

00:34:15   apples on a QuickTime Player it has to [TS]

00:34:17   decode video and decoding video is a [TS]

00:34:20   notoriously difficult process that has [TS]

00:34:23   to be high performance and there have [TS]

00:34:25   been a lot of exploits in sort of [TS]

00:34:26   decoding of compressed information [TS]

00:34:28   because that code has to be very fast [TS]

00:34:29   and tends to be vulnerable to the buffer [TS]

00:34:32   or buffer overflows because it can't [TS]

00:34:33   constantly be checking bounds on [TS]

00:34:34   everything because it has to be fast and [TS]

00:34:36   that the algorithms are complex and the [TS]

00:34:38   code is complex so what Apple does is [TS]

00:34:41   this I we're going to offload the [TS]

00:34:44   decoding of video to a separate process [TS]

00:34:46   and that process doesn't need to have [TS]

00:34:48   any access to the file system because we [TS]

00:34:49   will feed it the data oh you know [TS]

00:34:51   through memory through a inter process [TS]

00:34:53   communication from the parent thing and [TS]

00:34:55   this that process isn't I need to have [TS]

00:34:56   any access to the network you know it [TS]

00:34:58   can be extremely isolated the only thing [TS]

00:35:00   that process sees is data given to it by [TS]

00:35:02   its parent process and then it returns [TS]

00:35:04   did all happening in memory no [TS]

00:35:06   privileges for anything so if there is [TS]

00:35:08   some sort of exploit in side like the [TS]

00:35:10   h.264 decoding algorithm or something or [TS]

00:35:13   there's some sort of bug there that if [TS]

00:35:14   you feed a it maliciously created video [TS]

00:35:16   to the video player something you can [TS]

00:35:18   take over your computer [TS]

00:35:19   well that that video will find itself [TS]

00:35:22   taking over a external process that has [TS]

00:35:25   almost no privileges you can't do [TS]

00:35:27   anything and that that's what they want [TS]

00:35:31   application developers to do is to think [TS]

00:35:32   about their application and instead of [TS]

00:35:34   giving [TS]

00:35:34   at the superset of all entitlements that [TS]

00:35:36   we need to do with job break it down [TS]

00:35:39   into sub applications each of which only [TS]

00:35:41   needs a few of those inside them so that [TS]

00:35:42   the parent application itself would have [TS]

00:35:43   a very very few entitlements and then [TS]

00:35:45   supplications would have the other few [TS]

00:35:47   we'll spread it out throughout them now [TS]

00:35:50   splitting up your application like this [TS]

00:35:51   is kind of a pinyin because you're like [TS]

00:35:52   oh so where do I put these other [TS]

00:35:53   executables how do I launch them how do [TS]

00:35:56   I feed them data how do I reap the [TS]

00:35:59   process when they're done I know you [TS]

00:36:01   know how do I communicate back and forth [TS]

00:36:03   but then I don't have to make my own [TS]

00:36:04   propos it's kind of annoying so what [TS]

00:36:05   Apple's done is created this ex PC [TS]

00:36:08   framework I guess you call it that [TS]

00:36:10   manages this for you it's sort of a [TS]

00:36:12   system for creating separate executables [TS]

00:36:14   that get stored in your applications [TS]

00:36:16   bundle and what you do is operate at a [TS]

00:36:19   very high level you basically call a [TS]

00:36:20   method that will trigger the creation of [TS]

00:36:25   this separate process on-demand handle [TS]

00:36:27   the communication with it and handle [TS]

00:36:28   cleaning up the process when it's done [TS]

00:36:30   so you don't have to deal with those [TS]

00:36:31   details making it easier for you to now [TS]

00:36:33   everyone knows you should do this [TS]

00:36:35   privilege separation thing if you see [TS]

00:36:38   the presentation so yeah that's not but [TS]

00:36:39   I don't I deal with the details so Apple [TS]

00:36:41   is trying to be able to many of the [TS]

00:36:42   details as possible to encourage the [TS]

00:36:44   most number of developers to do this now [TS]

00:36:46   this isn't you can sandbox your [TS]

00:36:48   application and not do this at all but [TS]

00:36:50   Apple really wants to encourage people [TS]

00:36:52   to do this because they think it's a [TS]

00:36:53   better way from a security perspective [TS]

00:36:56   to design an application sandboxing I [TS]

00:36:59   was just talking about the X PC thing [TS]

00:37:01   and splitting up your application into [TS]

00:37:04   pieces right all right so the [TS]

00:37:07   interesting part of this is that as you [TS]

00:37:09   can imagine on the Mac almost every [TS]

00:37:11   application these days seems like it [TS]

00:37:15   should need full access to the file [TS]

00:37:16   system because how else do open files [TS]

00:37:19   like it does the application can't know [TS]

00:37:20   where your files are they could be [TS]

00:37:21   anywhere they could be any desktop and [TS]

00:37:23   your Documents folder on a server volume [TS]

00:37:25   it's just expected that Mac applications [TS]

00:37:27   can open up any file and so it seems [TS]

00:37:30   like every Mac application or at least [TS]

00:37:32   some subcomponent or a Mac application [TS]

00:37:34   needs to have complete access to the [TS]

00:37:35   file system and that is a big [TS]

00:37:37   vulnerability because if that app is [TS]

00:37:39   exploited by you know some sort of [TS]

00:37:43   maliciously created file that it opens [TS]

00:37:44   or any other mechanism where over the [TS]

00:37:46   network or any other mechanism where you [TS]

00:37:48   can take [TS]

00:37:48   control this application then you have [TS]

00:37:51   complete access to all that users files [TS]

00:37:53   you could for example recursively delete [TS]

00:37:55   their entire home directory or you know [TS]

00:37:57   a plant the virus somewhere and there [TS]

00:37:58   that launches every time they log in or [TS]

00:37:59   do all sorts of nasty things [TS]

00:38:01   so Apple solution to this is to provide [TS]

00:38:06   a an intermediate a trusted intermediary [TS]

00:38:08   that provides access to the full file [TS]

00:38:11   system but only in response to explicit [TS]

00:38:12   user actions so for example when you go [TS]

00:38:15   to the file menu and select open or hit [TS]

00:38:16   commando what it does is it hands-off [TS]

00:38:20   operation to this power box daemon and [TS]

00:38:24   the power box daemon has access to the [TS]

00:38:26   full file system but your application [TS]

00:38:27   doesn't and the only way you get to the [TS]

00:38:29   power box thing is by explicit user [TS]

00:38:31   action because you selected open from [TS]

00:38:33   the file menu or you hit command o it [TS]

00:38:36   wasn't something that the program did it [TS]

00:38:38   was a user input that went through you [TS]

00:38:40   know the input mechanism in the event [TS]

00:38:41   mechanism and caused you know the open [TS]

00:38:45   dialog to come up that is a signal to [TS]

00:38:47   the application that yes this is a user [TS]

00:38:49   doing this and not a program and then [TS]

00:38:50   you're handed off to the power box [TS]

00:38:51   application which is okay I will poke a [TS]

00:38:54   little hole in your sandbox to allow you [TS]

00:38:57   access to whichever file that I pick now [TS]

00:39:00   the application is in control the power [TS]

00:39:02   box applications is okay you hang on [TS]

00:39:03   over there let me take over [TS]

00:39:04   I'll let the guy pick the application [TS]

00:39:07   that he wants and when he picks it I [TS]

00:39:09   will give that one application back to [TS]

00:39:10   you so the application still doesn't [TS]

00:39:12   have complete access to the file so it [TS]

00:39:13   just says okay I've handed off control [TS]

00:39:16   to this intermediary it will give me the [TS]

00:39:18   file that I want it can't it the [TS]

00:39:20   application can't tell power box which [TS]

00:39:22   file to open [TS]

00:39:22   it's it waits for power box tell it [TS]

00:39:25   here's the file that the user selected [TS]

00:39:26   and that's the way that they want [TS]

00:39:29   applications basically no Mac [TS]

00:39:31   applications just say I need full access [TS]

00:39:33   to the file system unless it's like a [TS]

00:39:34   disc checker or something where it has [TS]

00:39:36   to scan your whole disk that would be a [TS]

00:39:37   legitimate use but for general [TS]

00:39:38   applications just because you need to [TS]

00:39:40   open a file you don't need full access [TS]

00:39:42   to the file system this this [TS]

00:39:43   intermediary they will do it for you and [TS]

00:39:45   this applies to things like dragging an [TS]

00:39:46   icon onto an application in the dock or [TS]

00:39:48   in the finder all those mechanisms that [TS]

00:39:51   are an explicit user action trigger the [TS]

00:39:55   the use of this power box intermediary [TS]

00:39:57   and are explicitly allowed because it [TS]

00:39:59   was done by a user so this is [TS]

00:40:01   kind of this is not a new innovation [TS]

00:40:04   many systems use this kind of security [TS]

00:40:06   model but it's the first time it's been [TS]

00:40:07   coming to Mac os10 and Apple's really [TS]

00:40:09   pushing it hard and the article I talked [TS]

00:40:11   about the carrot and the stick the [TS]

00:40:12   carrot is do this because your [TS]

00:40:14   application will be more secure we're [TS]

00:40:16   providing these really nice API it's [TS]

00:40:17   like the X PC thing for managing [TS]

00:40:19   external applications yeah we'll take [TS]

00:40:22   care of the details for you we've done [TS]

00:40:24   all this work for you that's the carrot [TS]

00:40:26   the stick is if you want to be in the [TS]

00:40:27   Mac App Store we're going to start [TS]

00:40:29   requiring this November so you best get [TS]

00:40:30   used to it [TS]

00:40:31   a lot of legacy Mac applications have [TS]

00:40:34   expectations way beyond the things that [TS]

00:40:38   sandboxing allows and one of the big [TS]

00:40:40   ones is Apple events you can do a lot [TS]

00:40:42   with Apple events you can communicate [TS]

00:40:43   from one application to the other and [TS]

00:40:44   make applications do almost anything and [TS]

00:40:46   some applications are built around Apple [TS]

00:40:48   events for example BBEdit makes [TS]

00:40:50   extensive use of them and this was the [TS]

00:40:51   best practice from Apple many many years [TS]

00:40:54   ago so yeah do everything with Apple [TS]

00:40:55   events within your your script ability [TS]

00:40:57   is great and other applications can [TS]

00:40:59   communicate with you and so on and so [TS]

00:41:01   forth but from a security perspective [TS]

00:41:02   it's not great to do that so there's a [TS]

00:41:03   severe restrictions on app cross [TS]

00:41:05   application Apple events and even I [TS]

00:41:06   think within application Apple events [TS]

00:41:08   when you're in a sandbox so it's going [TS]

00:41:11   to be a problem for some applications [TS]

00:41:13   that were built based on apples previous [TS]

00:41:15   advice about best practices now that [TS]

00:41:17   advice is changed and there may be kind [TS]

00:41:19   of a rocky road for some apps to get [TS]

00:41:22   themselves within the sandbox simply [TS]

00:41:25   because some assumptions are just baked [TS]

00:41:27   into their design and it's not as easy [TS]

00:41:30   as just giving yourself a list of [TS]

00:41:31   entitlements that you that you need or [TS]

00:41:33   breaking replication up into pieces so I [TS]

00:41:37   think that cover sandboxing raids [TS]

00:41:39   I wonder how important is this to modern [TS]

00:41:42   operating systems I mean is this [TS]

00:41:43   something that's sort of critical that [TS]

00:41:45   they all need or is this Apple doing [TS]

00:41:48   something extra that it's not required [TS]

00:41:49   is this innovation I mean - what's your [TS]

00:41:51   take on this is this like an about time [TS]

00:41:53   kind of a thing well like a lot of the [TS]

00:41:56   things in Lion all this was field tested [TS]

00:41:58   in iOS so they are not kind of flying [TS]

00:42:01   blind like in iOS they have a system [TS]

00:42:03   where applications are by default even [TS]

00:42:06   more restricted they have don't have [TS]

00:42:07   full access of the filesystem they they [TS]

00:42:09   are confined to their own little world [TS]

00:42:10   they're very very restricted and not in [TS]

00:42:13   a very configurable way [TS]

00:42:14   ah and so what they're trying to say is [TS]

00:42:17   we found that can work that people can [TS]

00:42:19   write applications that that the user is [TS]

00:42:21   like being severely severely restricted [TS]

00:42:25   and I say well the Mac is the Wild West [TS]

00:42:28   how do we get from the Wild West to [TS]

00:42:30   something closer to that and so this is [TS]

00:42:32   them trying to move the Mac in that [TS]

00:42:34   direction and to their credit there they [TS]

00:42:37   have taken the lead in this even in [TS]

00:42:39   previous versions like in Snow Leopard [TS]

00:42:41   Safari was made to split up like [TS]

00:42:44   internet plugins like flash and [TS]

00:42:46   everything into separate applications so [TS]

00:42:48   the one that crashed they don't take [TS]

00:42:49   down the whole app and any of is that [TS]

00:42:53   obviously Safari is one of those [TS]

00:42:54   applications where security is critical [TS]

00:42:56   because you're constantly on the web [TS]

00:42:57   reading data from unknown sources all [TS]

00:43:00   day long and in Lion they've done the [TS]

00:43:04   same thing where you know now the [TS]

00:43:05   QuickTime application is a sandbox [TS]

00:43:07   executable for decoding that PDF [TS]

00:43:09   rendering is pushed off into a separate [TS]

00:43:11   application by the framework that does [TS]

00:43:13   that of the preview application they [TS]

00:43:16   using WebKit to which further separates [TS]

00:43:18   not just separating plugins and [TS]

00:43:20   separating video decoding and stuff like [TS]

00:43:24   that but also separating the rendering [TS]

00:43:25   process itself from the actual Safari [TS]

00:43:27   application so it's getting to the point [TS]

00:43:28   where Apple's applications are just [TS]

00:43:30   shells for other services that are [TS]

00:43:32   spawned off in other applications and [TS]

00:43:33   they're starting with the ones that are [TS]

00:43:35   most vulnerable security wise there's [TS]

00:43:36   been tons of PDF exploits so they wanted [TS]

00:43:38   to make sure that their PDF rendering [TS]

00:43:40   was isolated and of course web exploits [TS]

00:43:42   they're constantly making Safari more [TS]

00:43:44   resilient to this so I think it's [TS]

00:43:46   inevitable and it's not a surprise [TS]

00:43:48   they're doing it it's not an about time [TS]

00:43:50   I think it's pretty much on schedule [TS]

00:43:52   because there is a mismatch between the [TS]

00:43:54   traditional expectations of desktop [TS]

00:43:56   applications and what iOS apps can do [TS]

00:43:58   and they do want to heard desktop [TS]

00:44:01   applications in that direction there's [TS]

00:44:03   so many different angles in this this is [TS]

00:44:04   security angle there's the stability [TS]

00:44:07   angle there is the simplicity angle in [TS]

00:44:09   terms of if we can confine applications [TS]

00:44:12   to a specific directory that the user [TS]

00:44:13   doesn't have to know about them they [TS]

00:44:14   don't have their files scattered all [TS]

00:44:16   over the place [TS]

00:44:16   iCloud will go further in that direction [TS]

00:44:18   because in iCloud if you want to make a [TS]

00:44:22   file ubiquitous which is their their [TS]

00:44:23   terminology for a file that appears on [TS]

00:44:25   all your different machines like put it [TS]

00:44:26   in the cloud [TS]

00:44:27   the local location of that file on your [TS]

00:44:30   file system on your Mac is supposed to [TS]

00:44:32   be immaterial [TS]

00:44:33   like you'll you can find it and know [TS]

00:44:35   where it is if you're interested but [TS]

00:44:36   once you once you put it into the cloud [TS]

00:44:39   you're not supposed to really care where [TS]

00:44:41   the document is on your file system if [TS]

00:44:43   if for example an application if all of [TS]

00:44:45   its files were in file cloud file cloud [TS]

00:44:48   and if all of its files were in iCloud [TS]

00:44:51   they would not have to have full access [TS]

00:44:54   the files they could be sandbox like an [TS]

00:44:56   iOS application is because that's what [TS]

00:44:58   iOS apps are like their files have to be [TS]

00:45:00   within their little little world like if [TS]

00:45:03   they can't reach into other applications [TS]

00:45:05   files and that's limiting from a sharing [TS]

00:45:07   perspective but it's great from a [TS]

00:45:10   security perspective where you can't [TS]

00:45:11   mess with other applications so if a Mac [TS]

00:45:13   application was 100% dedicated to iCloud [TS]

00:45:17   it could behave like that too now there [TS]

00:45:20   is there's an opposition to this which [TS]

00:45:23   is but what about application or what [TS]

00:45:25   about files that I use in multiple [TS]

00:45:27   applications what like a PDF that I want [TS]

00:45:30   to open in PDF pen to edit but I also [TS]

00:45:32   want to open in preview but I also open [TS]

00:45:34   it in my web browser occasionally or [TS]

00:45:36   open it in some sort of ebook reader [TS]

00:45:38   application a single PDF can be open to [TS]

00:45:41   many different applications and you [TS]

00:45:42   can't you can't have it just confined to [TS]

00:45:45   the preview applications little iCloud [TS]

00:45:47   document mobile documents and box area [TS]

00:45:50   because then how would the other [TS]

00:45:51   applications see it so the Mac is [TS]

00:45:54   different from iOS and Apple is going to [TS]

00:45:56   have to walk that line between security [TS]

00:45:59   and stability and not having to worry [TS]

00:46:01   about the file system but also [TS]

00:46:03   acknowledging that you do need to share [TS]

00:46:07   applications between you need to share [TS]

00:46:10   data between applications on the Mac and [TS]

00:46:12   I would argue that you need to do that [TS]

00:46:14   in iOS as well a lot of people [TS]

00:46:16   complained how annoying it is that once [TS]

00:46:19   PDF for example gets sucked up into [TS]

00:46:20   iBooks if you want to open that PDF in [TS]

00:46:23   another application it's not quite as [TS]

00:46:24   easy unless you go back to the original [TS]

00:46:25   email that it came in and you know tap [TS]

00:46:27   and hold down and say open another [TS]

00:46:28   application it'll be an interesting [TS]

00:46:33   balancing act but right now we're still [TS]

00:46:36   in the early stages and I think for the [TS]

00:46:39   most part Mac [TS]

00:46:40   applications should be able to adopt [TS]

00:46:41   sandboxing without freaking users or [TS]

00:46:44   developers out too much but they could [TS]

00:46:45   help with a couple of exceptions [TS]

00:46:46   surrounding Apple events and other [TS]

00:46:48   applications that want to do more [TS]

00:46:49   interesting things you with all these [TS]

00:46:50   things you don't want Apple to get too [TS]

00:46:54   draconian about the restrictions because [TS]

00:46:57   you will be eliminating interesting [TS]

00:46:59   applications that do things that are [TS]

00:47:01   outside the bounds of sandboxing useful [TS]

00:47:03   things that you would want to do like [TS]

00:47:04   for example SuperDuper obviously needs [TS]

00:47:06   to read every single file on your disk [TS]

00:47:08   to make it clone but if Apple is to [TS]

00:47:10   decree that all applications must be [TS]

00:47:12   sandbox only sandbox applications can [TS]

00:47:14   run in by the way that entitlement where [TS]

00:47:16   you want to read every file on disk [TS]

00:47:17   we're not letting you have that or it's [TS]

00:47:19   super duper is already out of the Mac [TS]

00:47:20   App Store because you needed Min [TS]

00:47:21   privileges to read every file in the [TS]

00:47:23   disk because normally you can only read [TS]

00:47:25   your files what about the function the [TS]

00:47:26   other work inside so no I don't think [TS]

00:47:28   anyone would argue that super dooper is [TS]

00:47:29   not a useful application it's a [TS]

00:47:30   tremendously useful but it doesn't fit [TS]

00:47:32   within Apple's worldview right now and [TS]

00:47:35   it would be a shame to see more [TS]

00:47:36   applications that are interesting and [TS]

00:47:38   useful get pushed to the side because [TS]

00:47:40   they're not in the 80 percent of like an [TS]

00:47:43   application that you open text files or [TS]

00:47:44   audio in or some simple thing like that [TS]

00:47:46   I think that's my take on sandboxing [TS]

00:47:52   mostly good but it all depends on how [TS]

00:47:55   Apple handles the rollout and execution [TS]

00:47:57   and how developers handle it and you're [TS]

00:47:59   feeling optimistic about that in general [TS]

00:48:01   though right yeah because like where [TS]

00:48:03   they're doing it now is where it makes [TS]

00:48:04   so much sense like I want Safari to be [TS]

00:48:06   chopped up into little pieces in sandbox [TS]

00:48:08   I want PDF rendering to be off in a [TS]

00:48:10   separate process and all that other [TS]

00:48:11   stuff from a user's perspective all [TS]

00:48:15   those things are good and I will be [TS]

00:48:16   happy when and when I if I download a [TS]

00:48:18   little Mac application that lets me edit [TS]

00:48:21   audio or something that it doesn't need [TS]

00:48:23   full access to the file system it [TS]

00:48:25   doesn't need to be able to turn on the [TS]

00:48:27   camera or the microphone on my monitor [TS]

00:48:29   and all sorts of that they're their [TS]

00:48:31   entitlements for all sorts of stuff like [TS]

00:48:32   that right I'm glad that Apple is making [TS]

00:48:35   sure that an application some simple [TS]

00:48:39   application like that like a game [TS]

00:48:40   doesn't need to do things that are way [TS]

00:48:42   outside the realm it's it's malware [TS]

00:48:44   protection basically so that that's a [TS]

00:48:45   good use of Apple's power and you know [TS]

00:48:47   as long as they avoid the bad uses I [TS]

00:48:49   think it'll turn out okay you know who's [TS]

00:48:50   a really a big proponent of sandboxing [TS]

00:48:53   who's that source Fitz calm these guys [TS]

00:48:55   make amazing software software design [TS]

00:48:58   development services for iOS Mac they [TS]

00:49:01   even do Android do you know if Android [TS]

00:49:03   has the same boxing I don't know [TS]

00:49:05   anyway they also do web stuff there [TS]

00:49:07   they're a bleeding edge kind of a [TS]

00:49:09   company they they're on top of this that [TS]

00:49:11   this stuff we're talking about now [TS]

00:49:12   that's new they've been this is their [TS]

00:49:14   this is all hat for them and their deep [TS]

00:49:16   experiencing successful track record [TS]

00:49:17   will ensure your idea because you go to [TS]

00:49:20   them with an idea that's what these guys [TS]

00:49:21   do you go to them with an idea you say I [TS]

00:49:22   have an idea I don't know what to do I [TS]

00:49:24   have this great idea and they said don't [TS]

00:49:26   worry about it we'll make you a visually [TS]

00:49:28   stunning world-class app in no time they [TS]

00:49:30   know how to do this they'll save you [TS]

00:49:32   time and money by getting it done right [TS]

00:49:34   the first time [TS]

00:49:35   they're very diamond seriously these [TS]

00:49:37   guys they're cutting edges Tom man if [TS]

00:49:39   you want something done and this is the [TS]

00:49:41   thing people show up with an idea and [TS]

00:49:42   they say well I guess I have to go out [TS]

00:49:43   and review iOS developers I guess I have [TS]

00:49:45   to go on Craigslist and then hire [TS]

00:49:48   somebody or whatever you don't I mean [TS]

00:49:50   I'm not saying don't do that [TS]

00:49:51   but typical projects that's not how you [TS]

00:49:52   want to get started you just call these [TS]

00:49:54   guys you go to source bits calm you tell [TS]

00:49:56   them look I heard about you guys on [TS]

00:49:57   hypercritical [TS]

00:49:58   set me up give me a good you know get me [TS]

00:50:01   going here and in days you'll have a [TS]

00:50:03   prototype app up and running and working [TS]

00:50:05   it's amazing so check these guys [TS]

00:50:06   outsource boots comm they do web apps [TS]

00:50:09   too don't forget about that check em out [TS]

00:50:11   tell them we send your source Fitz comm [TS]

00:50:13   check it out they do sandboxing yeah [TS]

00:50:17   everyone will I think the motivation to [TS]

00:50:20   be in the Mac App Store is very high and [TS]

00:50:23   if an application can conceivably be in [TS]

00:50:26   the Mac App Store according to apples [TS]

00:50:27   rules most developers want their app to [TS]

00:50:30   be there at this point even if they [TS]

00:50:32   still sell it separately they still they [TS]

00:50:35   want to be available in as many markets [TS]

00:50:36   as possible in the Mac App Store has [TS]

00:50:38   been driving sales for people so what [TS]

00:50:42   are some of these other things you want [TS]

00:50:44   to talk because I still think you know I [TS]

00:50:45   still think people want to hear more [TS]

00:50:47   about your rants on them the user [TS]

00:50:48   interface have you have you been using [TS]

00:50:50   line now yet is your primary oh no it's [TS]

00:50:53   gonna be a while before I upgrade a [TS]

00:50:54   while why what absolutely waiting for I [TS]

00:50:57   still have to figure out what I'm gonna [TS]

00:50:59   do with Quicken [TS]

00:51:00   I really don't is it doesn't hope [TS]

00:51:02   there's quick and just not run is that [TS]

00:51:04   the profit just won't run or what [TS]

00:51:05   doesn't run does not law doesn't realize [TS]

00:51:07   so I need to do you use Quicken for your [TS]

00:51:10   personal finances yeah yeah so I need to [TS]

00:51:13   figure out what I'm going to do there I [TS]

00:51:14   start auditioning applications I need to [TS]

00:51:16   figure what I'm going to do with [TS]

00:51:17   Photoshop because I don't like not [TS]

00:51:19   having Photoshop on my system I do have [TS]

00:51:21   a copy of a corn and a couple other [TS]

00:51:22   programs that I purchased but I kind of [TS]

00:51:25   like Photoshop even though I use one [TS]

00:51:26   eight thousandth of its functionality [TS]

00:51:29   I'm used to it and occasionally I do use [TS]

00:51:32   one or two of the more advanced features [TS]

00:51:33   so I gotta figure what I'm going to do [TS]

00:51:34   there yeah I'm collecting updated [TS]

00:51:38   versions of applications now I've gotten [TS]

00:51:41   updated version of macfuse some of my [TS]

00:51:43   open store stuff I'll probably rebuild I [TS]

00:51:45   don't know it's going to be awhile and [TS]

00:51:48   it work it's a similar issue where I [TS]

00:51:50   have to use disk encryption at work but [TS]

00:51:53   I don't know if the if work has yet [TS]

00:51:54   approved Apple's disk encryption so this [TS]

00:51:57   is what I was going to ask you we spend [TS]

00:51:59   a lot of time last week John talking [TS]

00:52:00   about the encryption and then you came [TS]

00:52:04   out with a link [TS]

00:52:06   I didn't I dang I didn't put in this [TS]

00:52:07   week's show notes but it's a great link [TS]

00:52:09   somebody actually ran some benchmarks [TS]

00:52:11   they actually have some legitimate [TS]

00:52:13   benchmarks showing how much of a [TS]

00:52:17   performance hit you will you will feel [TS]

00:52:20   and it was bigger than you made it seem [TS]

00:52:22   to be honest well I added two links I [TS]

00:52:25   was just basically posting links that [TS]

00:52:26   other people sent me I don't know the [TS]

00:52:28   Providence of these things are what Alex [TS]

00:52:29   tends to the testing was what if someone [TS]

00:52:30   sends me some information with a graph [TS]

00:52:32   all retweeted right all you all you need [TS]

00:52:34   to get John to retweet something is send [TS]

00:52:36   to have a graph on the page and you'll [TS]

00:52:37   retweet you if it's something useful so [TS]

00:52:39   the first one showed that read [TS]

00:52:41   performance was not really impacted by [TS]

00:52:44   write performance was like like 50% [TS]

00:52:47   reduction uh and so I just posted that I [TS]

00:52:50   there was no explanation accompanying it [TS]

00:52:51   was just like this guy did this testing [TS]

00:52:53   he's the benchmark here's the graph he's [TS]

00:52:54   produced that's a lot though 50% all [TS]

00:52:57   right so a little bit later someone else [TS]

00:52:58   produced another graph that showed a [TS]

00:53:00   much much lower hit with a different SSD [TS]

00:53:02   and a different system I don't even know [TS]

00:53:04   if the benchmark was a shame showing [TS]

00:53:05   that reads were not really affected that [TS]

00:53:07   much and rights were barely affected and [TS]

00:53:09   that was a dramatic difference from one [TS]

00:53:12   guy's testing on his machine with it as [TS]

00:53:13   a state to another guy's testing so just [TS]

00:53:15   go I mean we're the benchmarks different [TS]

00:53:17   is because the SSD Hardware was [TS]

00:53:19   different is because one had different [TS]

00:53:20   drivers that you know I I make people [TS]

00:53:24   can draw their own conclusions I have no [TS]

00:53:26   information about these two people's [TS]

00:53:27   benchmarks or what they mean now I did [TS]

00:53:28   see some interesting theories one thing [TS]

00:53:31   to understand about SSDs is that they [TS]

00:53:34   have to write data in big hunking blocks [TS]

00:53:38   even if you just update like one byte [TS]

00:53:39   somewhere they can't just go in there [TS]

00:53:41   and twiddle the bits in that one byte [TS]

00:53:42   what they have to do is take an entire [TS]

00:53:44   region I forget how big these regions [TS]

00:53:46   are what they're called this correct [TS]

00:53:47   terminology if you go to the Wikipedia [TS]

00:53:49   page on SSDs or flash storage they have [TS]

00:53:52   to wipe the entire region and rewrite it [TS]

00:53:54   with the change inside it so as you can [TS]

00:53:57   imagine doing writes could potentially [TS]

00:54:00   be a lot slower than than doing reads if [TS]

00:54:02   you have to erase some big giant region [TS]

00:54:04   before you write it in there and one [TS]

00:54:05   person's theory was that a lot of SSDs [TS]

00:54:08   have firmware on them or you know chips [TS]

00:54:10   that try to figure out just just the [TS]

00:54:12   deltas between what's there now and what [TS]

00:54:15   you have and they try to be more [TS]

00:54:16   efficient about just writing the deltas [TS]

00:54:19   even though they have to clear the [TS]

00:54:19   entire area and since when you just [TS]

00:54:24   change one or two little bits if the [TS]

00:54:26   underlying storage is encrypted the [TS]

00:54:28   entire block could actually change and [TS]

00:54:29   not just those one or two bits because [TS]

00:54:31   in the unencrypted world you change one [TS]

00:54:32   into a little bits but when you re [TS]

00:54:33   encrypt that the whole frickin block is [TS]

00:54:34   changed and so then you have to actually [TS]

00:54:36   the diff is 100% no matter what you [TS]

00:54:39   change even if you just change one byte [TS]

00:54:40   in this area that was one theory I heard [TS]

00:54:43   some guy put forward to why the write [TS]

00:54:45   performance would be so massively [TS]

00:54:46   affected the reads wouldn't be as [TS]

00:54:48   effective as we were just saying read [TS]

00:54:49   this it just comes right off the disk [TS]

00:54:50   and gets decrypted so it would mean that [TS]

00:54:52   it's not the encryption and decryption [TS]

00:54:54   process that's slowing it down but it's [TS]

00:54:55   the fact that changing one byte in the [TS]

00:54:59   decrypted world means changing in making [TS]

00:55:01   the entire block different in the [TS]

00:55:03   encrypted world and so that that would [TS]

00:55:05   account for the writes being so much [TS]

00:55:06   slower but but again the second test [TS]

00:55:09   that showed the rights weren't is slow [TS]

00:55:10   maybe that's a different set of firmware [TS]

00:55:12   or smaller block size different kinds of [TS]

00:55:13   flash I don't know the details though [TS]

00:55:15   I'm saying is that if you have concerns [TS]

00:55:18   remember that encryption is always [TS]

00:55:19   reversible you can encrypt a small disk [TS]

00:55:22   into a benchmark on it yourself with [TS]

00:55:23   your actual design and decrypt it or you [TS]

00:55:28   could just you know take a hands-off [TS]

00:55:29   approach and say I'm not going to I'm [TS]

00:55:31   not going to try this until I see more [TS]

00:55:32   information [TS]

00:55:33   a lot of people are saying hey i heard [TS]

00:55:35   john recommending encryption so I'm [TS]

00:55:37   going and doing it that's all well and [TS]

00:55:38   good remember I also I'm also not [TS]

00:55:41   upgrading my own computer I'm also [TS]

00:55:42   recommending making really good backups [TS]

00:55:44   and you know don't don't just do [TS]

00:55:45   something because I say so [TS]

00:55:46   you're not absolved of responsibility or [TS]

00:55:48   using these features because I said it [TS]

00:55:50   was good you have to do your own due [TS]

00:55:54   diligence and really decide based on [TS]

00:55:56   what you know for a fact whether whether [TS]

00:55:59   this will hurt your particular usage see [TS]

00:56:01   I actually disagree I just do whatever [TS]

00:56:02   you recommend and I assume that you're [TS]

00:56:04   going to vet it and and prequalify it [TS]

00:56:07   and if you say I mean if you say that [TS]

00:56:09   you do it it's good enough for me well [TS]

00:56:11   every now that's the value of the show [TS]

00:56:13   John value to show is if you come in you [TS]

00:56:16   roll in you're like mothers what I do [TS]

00:56:18   I'm done I'm I'm gonna do that I'll say [TS]

00:56:20   I did run it for months and months all [TS]

00:56:22   the devils I never had a single problem [TS]

00:56:24   but you don't have the same hardware as [TS]

00:56:25   me and you and I certainly wasn't doing [TS]

00:56:28   any disk intensive operations so you [TS]

00:56:29   know all the saying is that I never [TS]

00:56:31   noticed a performance hit in my casual [TS]

00:56:35   testing operations oh it is reversible [TS]

00:56:37   make a good backup encrypt your disk let [TS]

00:56:39   it go overnight right run the thing for [TS]

00:56:42   a day or two if you don't notice a speed [TS]

00:56:44   hit and it works fine for you then [TS]

00:56:46   you're fine if you think it's bothering [TS]

00:56:48   you're causing a speed hook then you can [TS]

00:56:49   reverse it a lot of people are giving [TS]

00:56:51   false positives on it like where Gus [TS]

00:56:53   Mueller I think a guy who makes a corn [TS]

00:56:56   and Voodoo pad and a bunch of other [TS]

00:56:59   applications flying meat software he [TS]

00:57:01   tweeted that he had encrypted his disk [TS]

00:57:03   and was going to reverse it because it [TS]

00:57:05   was making everything much slower and [TS]

00:57:06   then a couple minutes later he tweeted [TS]

00:57:08   actually it wasn't the encryption [TS]

00:57:10   because I decrypt it and things are [TS]

00:57:12   still slow and I gotta figure out what [TS]

00:57:14   this problem actually is so anytime you [TS]

00:57:16   change anything is a tendency to blame [TS]

00:57:18   and blame any problems you have on [TS]

00:57:20   whatever it is that you just did so you [TS]

00:57:23   know do good a be testing do benchmarks [TS]

00:57:25   if you want or just wait on the web to [TS]

00:57:27   see people do better benchmarks I'll [TS]

00:57:29   just wait for I'll just wait for you to [TS]

00:57:31   say what to do yeah I'm not gonna [TS]

00:57:32   encrypt my Mac Pro because at home [TS]

00:57:34   because it doesn't move so do you ever [TS]

00:57:36   worry do you ever worried somebody might [TS]

00:57:37   break in your house while you're gone [TS]

00:57:39   and like get on your computer and or [TS]

00:57:41   take the whole computer take the whole [TS]

00:57:44   thing it could happen [TS]

00:57:46   I don't think there's anything [TS]

00:57:47   on there that you know your quicken you [TS]

00:57:50   go quicken yeah that's not there's [TS]

00:57:52   nothing in quick it doesn't anyone who's [TS]

00:57:54   interested in my finances would learn [TS]

00:57:55   all about my finances but not like my [TS]

00:57:58   passwords are all in their their bank [TS]

00:58:01   passwords or anything is just an [TS]

00:58:02   accounting of money and various accounts [TS]

00:58:04   all I know is I want to get in there and [TS]

00:58:05   see your quicken I wouldn't steal [TS]

00:58:09   anything I would just look around poke [TS]

00:58:10   around in there benevolent Hank yeah I [TS]

00:58:13   don't worry too much about people bring [TS]

00:58:15   I live in a very low crime area [TS]

00:58:17   thankfully that's good oh you wanna do a [TS]

00:58:22   hfs+ disc stuff AJ you know I like HFS+ [TS]

00:58:28   discussions because well I thought that [TS]

00:58:31   was one of the areas that we didn't get [TS]

00:58:32   to cover last week and that's something [TS]

00:58:34   that is very I mean maybe we make this [TS]

00:58:37   our final topic but I think I think this [TS]

00:58:40   is very much an interesting interesting [TS]

00:58:43   thing to talk about for me because you [TS]

00:58:46   know if you think back to the the olden [TS]

00:58:47   days [TS]

00:58:48   HFS was ahead of its time HFS was great [TS]

00:58:52   HFS used to be a really wonderful file [TS]

00:58:55   system that did things that few few [TS]

00:58:57   other file systems were capable of am i [TS]

00:59:00   right yeah it was in it for its time not [TS]

00:59:04   so much cutting edge in terms of the [TS]

00:59:05   file system particulars but in terms of [TS]

00:59:08   what the file system decided to support [TS]

00:59:10   you know let me think about this rate [TS]

00:59:12   resource Forks and stuff like that think [TS]

00:59:14   about this let's go back in time let's [TS]

00:59:16   go back in time to I guess we're talking [TS]

00:59:18   about systems 7 on the Mac and what was [TS]

00:59:21   what was going on in the windows world [TS]

00:59:22   at that time was it windows for [TS]

00:59:24   workgroups or just Windows 3.1 I don't [TS]

00:59:26   remember but it was something like that [TS]

00:59:28   it was a you know have you have to go [TS]

00:59:31   back much farther that HFS was really no [TS]

00:59:32   I'm not saying HFS I'm just going to [TS]

00:59:34   point something out I'm just going to [TS]

00:59:35   point something out at that time period [TS]

00:59:37   is that while Windows was in the 3.1 [TS]

00:59:41   time Microsoft DOS ms-dos and then you [TS]

00:59:44   type win to launch Windows and you [TS]

00:59:49   couldn't you couldn't do things in [TS]

00:59:51   Windows at that time and there's a lot [TS]

00:59:53   of people who they weren't even alive [TS]

00:59:55   they weren't even using computers if [TS]

00:59:57   they were alive at this time period I [TS]

00:59:58   mean we're talking a long time [TS]

00:59:58   mean we're talking a long time [TS]

01:00:00   listeners that might have never gone [TS]

01:00:02   through this and I'm sure you went [TS]

01:00:03   through this kind of thing on the Mac if [TS]

01:00:05   you wanted to you could put you could [TS]

01:00:08   have an app running an application sorry [TS]

01:00:11   old school terms an application they [TS]

01:00:13   could just sit on the desktop you just [TS]

01:00:14   double-click it to launch it that's it [TS]

01:00:16   oh you don't want it there you put it in [TS]

01:00:17   another folder drag it to another folder [TS]

01:00:18   there were very it mattered very little [TS]

01:00:21   where things were I mean obviously if [TS]

01:00:24   you wanted your extensions to load they [TS]

01:00:25   had to be in in your extensions folder [TS]

01:00:27   in your system folder but I mean other [TS]

01:00:29   than that you could put stuff wherever [TS]

01:00:30   you felt like putting it the [TS]

01:00:33   applications while they were running [TS]

01:00:34   pick him up drag and put him somewhere [TS]

01:00:35   else people in a like so what big deal [TS]

01:00:37   right who cares well back then I mean [TS]

01:00:39   that was a big deal that was one of the [TS]

01:00:41   big selling points of the Mac is you [TS]

01:00:42   just stuff worked the way that the end [TS]

01:00:44   user wanted it to work Mac os10 [TS]

01:00:47   that they got a little bit tougher about [TS]

01:00:50   that because it's a you know UNIX [TS]

01:00:52   underpinnings so they they got a little [TS]

01:00:54   bit tougher but it's still pretty good [TS]

01:00:56   like that but well if you moved one of [TS]

01:00:58   Windows files or applications or [TS]

01:01:00   something I mean it just wouldn't work a [TS]

01:01:02   flat-out not work I remember when I was [TS]

01:01:04   I used to be an IT support guy and some [TS]

01:01:08   lady called me down to her office and [TS]

01:01:10   she said Dan you know my computer is [TS]

01:01:12   acting really weird it gets acting [TS]

01:01:14   really weird really weird again it's not [TS]

01:01:16   doing something really weird is it all [TS]

01:01:18   right no you don't come down so I went [TS]

01:01:20   down her office and it was it was acting [TS]

01:01:23   very weird all kinds of really weird [TS]

01:01:25   dialog boxes things are crashing looking [TS]

01:01:28   around so you know first thing you do is [TS]

01:01:30   you launch Windows Explorer or whatever [TS]

01:01:33   it was back then you look and and she [TS]

01:01:36   had two folders at the root of her hard [TS]

01:01:38   drive now this is back in the days where [TS]

01:01:40   you had to have like a C colon slash [TS]

01:01:42   Windows and inside of that there was a [TS]

01:01:44   Windows system I mean it was very you [TS]

01:01:45   had to have certain things set up just [TS]

01:01:47   just so she had two folders one was her [TS]

01:01:51   name I don't remember let's just say her [TS]

01:01:52   name was Janine Janine that was one [TS]

01:01:54   folder Janine and then there was another [TS]

01:01:56   folder called stupid stuff and she had [TS]

01:02:00   while the system was running she had [TS]

01:02:02   moved the windows and the windows system [TS]

01:02:04   and everything she had moved that into [TS]

01:02:06   the stupid stuff folder because it was [TS]

01:02:09   stupid she didn't like that she didn't [TS]

01:02:10   want to see that at the root of her hard [TS]

01:02:12   drive every time [TS]

01:02:12   so she had moved it there I mean when [TS]

01:02:14   the machine was just going crazy I'm not [TS]

01:02:15   saying you could have done the [TS]

01:02:16   equivalent thing on the Mac and [TS]

01:02:17   everything would have worked but going [TS]

01:02:20   back to the whole file system thing you [TS]

01:02:21   could you could have case sensitivity [TS]

01:02:23   and it understood that you could [TS]

01:02:25   navigate the file system and I'm much [TS]

01:02:27   more pleasant much easier way and a big [TS]

01:02:31   part of that was that was what HFS [TS]

01:02:33   allowed you to do you could have you [TS]

01:02:35   know certain files opening with the [TS]

01:02:37   applications that you actually want them [TS]

01:02:39   to and there wasn't some registry that [TS]

01:02:41   you would need to edit to make a change [TS]

01:02:42   I mean you give it some credit man what [TS]

01:02:46   the big innovation that I think that the [TS]

01:02:48   original HFS had in long filenames [TS]

01:02:51   obviously because in the PC world that [TS]

01:02:53   was not common then no you couldn't you [TS]

01:02:55   couldn't do that for real you would have [TS]

01:02:57   the file name with the little tilde on [TS]

01:02:58   it and that was that was only Windows 95 [TS]

01:03:00   yeah 80 10 years before you have long [TS]

01:03:03   names the lack of file name extensions [TS]

01:03:05   because there was other metadata that it [TS]

01:03:06   used instead of filename extension so [TS]

01:03:08   the file name was completely in the [TS]

01:03:09   domain of the user and they did file [TS]

01:03:12   tracking through unique IDs that were [TS]

01:03:14   unique that was the vault it was a [TS]

01:03:16   volume ID and then a file ID so if you [TS]

01:03:17   move the file while it was open and [TS]

01:03:19   applications keep track of it because [TS]

01:03:20   they were referencing it by its unique [TS]

01:03:22   ID not by its names you could move it [TS]

01:03:24   rename it and the application would [TS]

01:03:25   still know where it was some of these [TS]

01:03:27   things had a little backsliding in Mac [TS]

01:03:29   OS 10 the extensions file extensions [TS]

01:03:32   came on we should do a whole show and [TS]

01:03:33   finally I'm extending as well just yell [TS]

01:03:34   about that but not today [TS]

01:03:36   tracking files a lot of the next derived [TS]

01:03:40   applications tracked files by paths and [TS]

01:03:42   if you moved the file out of the way or [TS]

01:03:43   renamed it they would lose track of it [TS]

01:03:45   they fixed most of these things over the [TS]

01:03:47   course of Mac OS 10 were they that raw [TS]

01:03:48   right now we have a way to track the [TS]

01:03:50   file when it's renamed we have a way to [TS]

01:03:52   hide the extensions we have a different [TS]

01:03:55   system for binding files to applications [TS]

01:03:57   we have long file names like we always [TS]

01:03:59   had but we have you know HFS+ bought [TS]

01:04:02   Unicode support in 1999 or whatever it [TS]

01:04:05   was introduced so there was a little bit [TS]

01:04:09   of backsliding into the bad old world [TS]

01:04:11   and some of that we've never fully [TS]

01:04:12   recovered from like filing sentence but [TS]

01:04:14   yeah HFS was a pretty good file system [TS]

01:04:16   but I'm in all my Mac OS 10 reviews over [TS]

01:04:19   the years I've been complaining about [TS]

01:04:20   the file system or asking when we're [TS]

01:04:22   going to get a new file system or in my [TS]

01:04:24   blog and ours I've been talking [TS]

01:04:26   about for years and years and years [TS]

01:04:27   about well what about ZFS or even before [TS]

01:04:30   that Apple hired the guy over the B file [TS]

01:04:32   system for from bos oh is he going to [TS]

01:04:36   make a new file system for Apple so many [TS]

01:04:39   things looking to making a new file [TS]

01:04:41   system and most people aren't interested [TS]

01:04:43   like they don't know what the file [TS]

01:04:44   system is they don't even know what I [TS]

01:04:45   mean by a file system do that they think [TS]

01:04:48   I mean the finder or where folders are [TS]

01:04:50   or something like that then if you don't [TS]

01:04:52   know what a file system is it's [TS]

01:04:53   difficult to explain to somebody oh this [TS]

01:04:54   is the piece of software that manages [TS]

01:04:56   we're on the spinning disk or on the SSD [TS]

01:04:59   the data for your files are stored and [TS]

01:05:02   when you ask for a file to be looked up [TS]

01:05:03   it figures out you know it's it's [TS]

01:05:05   keeping indexes of files and information [TS]

01:05:07   about which files and what directory and [TS]

01:05:08   what the files are named and where all [TS]

01:05:10   the blocks that make up those files are [TS]

01:05:11   are you know that if you don't know what [TS]

01:05:14   a file system is is difficult to explain [TS]

01:05:15   so I've been complaining about this for [TS]

01:05:18   years and nothing's been happening like [TS]

01:05:20   there was we almost got ZFS years and [TS]

01:05:22   years ago when I think we like Snow [TS]

01:05:24   Leopard server was coming out on Apple [TS]

01:05:26   comm it said and a great new feature of [TS]

01:05:28   Snow Leopard server ZFS it's this great [TS]

01:05:31   new file system and this is this this [TS]

01:05:32   made to the apple.com website long after [TS]

01:05:35   there had been talk on the web that [TS]

01:05:37   Apple was porting ZFS and Apple had [TS]

01:05:39   posted publicly - mailing lists hey we [TS]

01:05:41   want to pour ZFS to Mac OS 10 if you [TS]

01:05:43   want to help come on board we'll hire [TS]

01:05:44   you you'll be a contract or whatever [TS]

01:05:46   just so much will meant to be behind ZFS [TS]

01:05:49   going on to Mac OS 10 a ZFS what people [TS]

01:05:51   don't know is that file system created [TS]

01:05:52   by Sun that was like a next-generation [TS]

01:05:53   file system I did I mean this thing did [TS]

01:05:55   ever this thing was this was going to be [TS]

01:05:57   the bomb the ZFS this is what people [TS]

01:05:59   were ruling this is what they were [TS]

01:06:00   killing for it was it was made for [TS]

01:06:02   server operating system though it was [TS]

01:06:04   never really quite a good fit for client [TS]

01:06:06   operating system but but the point is [TS]

01:06:07   Apple got so far along with this process [TS]

01:06:09   that they actually put on their publicly [TS]

01:06:11   accessible website that regular people [TS]

01:06:13   could see this line item on a page [TS]

01:06:16   listing the features of an upcoming [TS]

01:06:17   operating system the server won't only [TS]

01:06:18   not the client but it was there but as [TS]

01:06:21   we all know they took that off the [TS]

01:06:23   webpage Snow Leopard was released [TS]

01:06:25   without any official ZFS support except [TS]

01:06:27   for like this open source thing that you [TS]

01:06:29   could download and install that was [TS]

01:06:31   always buggy and weird and eventually [TS]

01:06:33   those projects died out some people say [TS]

01:06:35   it was because of legal reasons or [TS]

01:06:36   licensing some people say it's because [TS]

01:06:38   Oracle bought Sun [TS]

01:06:40   others say it's because it was not the [TS]

01:06:42   file system just didn't perform up to [TS]

01:06:44   the standards that it needs to perform [TS]

01:06:46   it wasn't a good fit for it was maybe a [TS]

01:06:48   good fit for servers but not a good fit [TS]

01:06:50   for apples client operating system [TS]

01:06:54   certainly not a good fit for iOS all [TS]

01:06:56   sorts of reasons why it didn't make it [TS]

01:06:59   but the bottom line is that now we are [TS]

01:07:01   left with HFS+ which has been as I said [TS]

01:07:04   in the review of Mac OS the Mac OS [TS]

01:07:06   itself got a big reset when we went to [TS]

01:07:08   Mac OS 10 classic Mac OS in Mac OS 10 [TS]

01:07:10   have very very little in common except [TS]

01:07:12   branding and a little bit of a [TS]

01:07:14   philosophy the code bases are very very [TS]

01:07:16   different from each other so that was a [TS]

01:07:18   discontinuity at but we got a [TS]

01:07:20   next-generation operating system with [TS]

01:07:22   all sorts of wizzy new features and [TS]

01:07:23   great stuff we didn't get a [TS]

01:07:25   next-generation file system instead we [TS]

01:07:26   just stuck with the file system that was [TS]

01:07:28   the current file system in classic mac [TS]

01:07:30   OS m and a lot of stuff has been added [TS]

01:07:32   to it over the years journaling and [TS]

01:07:34   extended attributes internal compression [TS]

01:07:37   and and now they've added encryption [TS]

01:07:40   through the core storage stuff which is [TS]

01:07:42   actually a layer above the file system [TS]

01:07:43   itself and I thought I would take time [TS]

01:07:45   in this review finally to explain why do [TS]

01:07:48   I care what why do I think we need a new [TS]

01:07:50   fastest one all seems fine if you asked [TS]

01:07:52   a regular person if you were able to [TS]

01:07:54   adequately explain to them what a file [TS]

01:07:55   system is they'd be like all right well [TS]

01:07:56   so the one I have obviously gets the job [TS]

01:07:58   done because I see my files and they [TS]

01:08:00   open and close just fine and I could [TS]

01:08:02   save files and what's the big deal so I [TS]

01:08:04   tried to explain here's what's wrong [TS]

01:08:07   with HFS+ here's why we need another [TS]

01:08:08   file system like here's how the state of [TS]

01:08:11   the artist moved on I tried to avoid [TS]

01:08:12   saying look at this specific modern file [TS]

01:08:14   system and things it has HFS doesn't [TS]

01:08:16   because then people would just say oh [TS]

01:08:17   well that may be true but like if I pick [TS]

01:08:19   ZFS that may be true but ZFS takes a lot [TS]

01:08:21   of memory see if I super slow about this [TS]

01:08:23   logging file systems turn random you [TS]

01:08:28   know sequential reads into random reads [TS]

01:08:30   and they turn random writes into [TS]

01:08:32   sequential writes in that and that data [TS]

01:08:33   pattern is not conducive to my [TS]

01:08:35   particular application and but there's [TS]

01:08:37   so many reasons you can shoot down any [TS]

01:08:38   other particular alternative and I [TS]

01:08:39   wouldn't argue with them all I'm saying [TS]

01:08:40   is that hfs+ is showing its age really [TS]

01:08:44   badly so I listed all sorts of weird [TS]

01:08:46   legacy things that H of s does you know [TS]

01:08:48   specific technical details that that [TS]

01:08:50   show the mega hfs+ show its age but [TS]

01:08:54   the bottom line is that in my daily [TS]

01:08:56   experience using Mac OS 10 and everybody [TS]

01:08:58   else is probably it's you know if I had [TS]

01:09:01   to list the the things that are wrong [TS]

01:09:02   with it [TS]

01:09:03   the the biggest one is that it's not [TS]

01:09:06   reliable like if you just run a Mac for [TS]

01:09:08   a year and and at the end of that year [TS]

01:09:10   you're on Disk Utility it will probably [TS]

01:09:13   find errors not hardware errors but [TS]

01:09:15   software errors on the disk where you [TS]

01:09:17   know this this particular note it'll say [TS]

01:09:19   some weird thing you won't understand if [TS]

01:09:20   you don't understand the internals of [TS]

01:09:21   hs+ but like you know incorrect thread [TS]

01:09:24   crown incorrect extent node count you [TS]

01:09:26   know some some metadata about the way [TS]

01:09:29   data for a particular file is arranged [TS]

01:09:31   or the way the files in a particular [TS]

01:09:32   directory are arranged is incorrect and [TS]

01:09:34   usually that data can be fixed by [TS]

01:09:36   scanning the filesystem finding the [TS]

01:09:38   correct number and putting it in there [TS]

01:09:39   but if you get an accumulation of those [TS]

01:09:41   errors or a bad one of them in the wrong [TS]

01:09:45   place you can lose data sometimes lots [TS]

01:09:47   of data one of the things I pointed out [TS]

01:09:49   and the Articles that they added hard [TS]

01:09:50   links to directories to HFS+ them I'm [TS]

01:09:52   going to go into explaining what hard [TS]

01:09:53   links are but it's it's a just for now [TS]

01:09:56   know that it's a they thing from UNIX [TS]

01:09:58   that the Mac operating system didn't [TS]

01:10:01   have and when Mac OS 10 came along they [TS]

01:10:03   needed support for hard links and then [TS]

01:10:05   when Time Machine came along they used [TS]

01:10:06   hard links to directories which was even [TS]

01:10:07   odd in the world of UNIX so they needed [TS]

01:10:09   to add support for that to the file [TS]

01:10:10   system and the way they added it was [TS]

01:10:12   that this little directory of the root [TS]

01:10:14   level your hard drive called HFS+ [TS]

01:10:16   private day there or something like that [TS]

01:10:17   with some non-printing characters [TS]

01:10:18   chopped on the front of it it's [TS]

01:10:19   invisible you can't normally see it you [TS]

01:10:21   can't normally get to it but it's there [TS]

01:10:22   and for every hard link they just put a [TS]

01:10:24   little file in that directory and all [TS]

01:10:27   the hard links on the entire disk and [TS]

01:10:28   the entire volume anyway have a [TS]

01:10:31   representative file in that directory [TS]

01:10:32   now when you do a time machine back up [TS]

01:10:36   there are millions and files on a you [TS]

01:10:40   know average sized Mac disk and when you [TS]

01:10:42   make Time Machine backups they make hard [TS]

01:10:44   links between them so they don't have to [TS]

01:10:45   have 20 copies of the same file if you [TS]

01:10:47   have twenty different backups instead [TS]

01:10:48   they have one copy of the file and 20 [TS]

01:10:50   hard links so if you were to count up [TS]

01:10:52   how many hard links you have in that [TS]

01:10:54   directory on your time machine volume [TS]

01:10:55   you would see this hundreds of thousands [TS]

01:10:57   of hard links all sitting in a single [TS]

01:10:58   directory and I think even regular [TS]

01:10:59   people can understand that if you have a [TS]

01:11:01   singer' folder with hundreds of [TS]

01:11:02   thousands of files in it that's not good [TS]

01:11:05   it's [TS]

01:11:06   it's pushing the limits of the file [TS]

01:11:08   system and if you ever get any sort of [TS]

01:11:11   corruption in that directory you're not [TS]

01:11:13   just losing the contents of that [TS]

01:11:14   directory the content of that directory [TS]

01:11:15   applied to the entire disk scary things [TS]

01:11:18   like that are because they had to hack [TS]

01:11:20   the implementation of hard links in that [TS]

01:11:22   particular manner now there are actually [TS]

01:11:23   advantages to this hacking [TS]

01:11:24   implementation for example it's very [TS]

01:11:26   fast much faster than it is on most [TS]

01:11:28   modern file systems to enumerate all the [TS]

01:11:30   hard disk hard links on a disk because [TS]

01:11:33   they're all in that same directory and [TS]

01:11:34   in fact base press Plus actually stores [TS]

01:11:36   some more information where you can from [TS]

01:11:38   a particular file trace it back to all [TS]

01:11:40   the other files that are hard link for [TS]

01:11:41   another thing it's very difficult to do [TS]

01:11:43   in traditional UNIX file system so [TS]

01:11:44   they've taken advantage of their hacky [TS]

01:11:46   implementations when they could but it's [TS]

01:11:49   still not ideal and it's not the way you [TS]

01:11:51   would probably do it if you didn't have [TS]

01:11:53   to retrofit a feature to an existing [TS]

01:11:55   file system of that breaking binary [TS]

01:11:56   compatibility so that's why I spent all [TS]

01:12:00   this time in this review talking about [TS]

01:12:02   HFS+ giving concrete details and saying [TS]

01:12:05   trying to express to regular people [TS]

01:12:08   here's why we need a new file system and [TS]

01:12:10   the thing I would want out of a new file [TS]

01:12:12   system is number one better reliability [TS]

01:12:14   I'd like to run a Mac for a year and [TS]

01:12:16   then run some disk checker on it and [TS]

01:12:18   have this checker say of course [TS]

01:12:19   everything's fine because our software [TS]

01:12:21   is correct and bug free and the only [TS]

01:12:22   reason you're going to have a problem in [TS]

01:12:23   this file system where we have [TS]

01:12:26   inconsistent metadata is if there's a [TS]

01:12:28   hardware problem like I don't want [TS]

01:12:29   software problems to cause this is [TS]

01:12:31   supposed to be the promise of things [TS]

01:12:33   like the data journaling metadata [TS]

01:12:34   journaling log structured file systems [TS]

01:12:37   you know if there's some sort of [TS]

01:12:38   horrible crash and or someone Yanks out [TS]

01:12:41   the plug on the computer I'm okay with [TS]

01:12:43   losing whatever two or three files were [TS]

01:12:44   in flight at that time but when the [TS]

01:12:46   Machine comes back up I want the [TS]

01:12:47   internal structures of the file system [TS]

01:12:49   to be consistent with with each other [TS]

01:12:51   even if it's missing some data it [TS]

01:12:53   shouldn't be corrupted because that kind [TS]

01:12:55   of corruption if you allow it to [TS]

01:12:56   accumulate you've seen this happen on [TS]

01:12:57   people's Mac swear that they'll just be [TS]

01:12:59   using a laptop for years and years and [TS]

01:13:01   all of a sudden one day it won't boot it [TS]

01:13:03   will be missing some file and it's not a [TS]

01:13:04   hardware problem the hardware is just [TS]

01:13:06   fine it's just the accumulation of HFS+ [TS]

01:13:09   metadata corruption has gotten to the [TS]

01:13:11   point where now they've lost a bunch of [TS]

01:13:13   data or need to recover with this quarry [TS]

01:13:15   or some other tool or it's I don't think [TS]

01:13:17   that should happen anymore and in modern [TS]

01:13:19   file systems [TS]

01:13:20   that you will be much more resilient [TS]

01:13:23   this type of thing and the second thing [TS]

01:13:24   I talk about which this this is not just [TS]

01:13:26   hfs+ I would fault every existing modern [TS]

01:13:29   file system except for maybe ZFS and a [TS]

01:13:31   few other ones is that file systems tend [TS]

01:13:34   to trust the hardware stack implicitly [TS]

01:13:36   they trust that when the application [TS]

01:13:39   says write this bit sequence to a file [TS]

01:13:41   and sends it off through the IO layer [TS]

01:13:45   they trusted that actually happened and [TS]

01:13:47   the next time they say read me this [TS]

01:13:49   region of that file that I just wrote [TS]

01:13:51   they assume the stuff that comes off the [TS]

01:13:52   disk is what they wrote before but they [TS]

01:13:53   don't check they don't say well you know [TS]

01:13:56   but they have no idea like you've you [TS]

01:13:57   know three days later you've rebooted [TS]

01:13:58   the computer three times when you read [TS]

01:14:00   that section of that file that you wrote [TS]

01:14:02   earlier you don't know what you wrote [TS]

01:14:03   earlier so the application certainly [TS]

01:14:05   can't check that it's correct it just [TS]

01:14:06   implicitly accepts it oh well so the the [TS]

01:14:09   disk and i/o subsystem fed me back this [TS]

01:14:11   data this must be what's in the file and [TS]

01:14:12   maybe this what's in the file but is it [TS]

01:14:13   what you wrote before you don't know and [TS]

01:14:16   what why would it not be why would why [TS]

01:14:18   would the data be mismatched well there [TS]

01:14:19   there can be firmware errors with the [TS]

01:14:21   the firmware for the i/o system like the [TS]

01:14:24   SATA chip or a raid chip or any other [TS]

01:14:25   type of thing that's between you and [TS]

01:14:26   your disk the disk itself can have [TS]

01:14:28   hardware problems where some bits get [TS]

01:14:30   flipped one way or the other [TS]

01:14:30   and people I said well that's that's [TS]

01:14:32   paranoia that doesn't happen that much [TS]

01:14:33   the the incidence of hardware problems [TS]

01:14:36   causing data to come off the disk and [TS]

01:14:38   being correct or so incredibly rare so [TS]

01:14:40   there's been a lot of studies on how [TS]

01:14:41   rare is this actually and in large data [TS]

01:14:45   centers or server farms or other places [TS]

01:14:46   that have lots of disks lots of i/o and [TS]

01:14:49   it is rare but the volume of data that [TS]

01:14:51   we have is increasing so much that as [TS]

01:14:53   rare as it is you know it's like if you [TS]

01:14:55   have if you have a 1 million you know if [TS]

01:14:56   there's only a one in a million chance [TS]

01:14:58   of something that means like 300 people [TS]

01:15:00   in China could do it or whatever [TS]

01:15:01   I'm bad at math here but one in a [TS]

01:15:04   million sounds like a lot but when [TS]

01:15:06   there's billions of people in China [TS]

01:15:07   wondering a million you have a lot of [TS]

01:15:09   selection if that's your choice so if [TS]

01:15:12   there's a one in three billion chance [TS]

01:15:13   but disks suddenly expand to hold [TS]

01:15:15   hundreds of billions of bytes suddenly [TS]

01:15:18   it's starting to become a little bit [TS]

01:15:19   more likely and that's what's happening [TS]

01:15:20   with storage everywhere the amount of [TS]

01:15:21   storage we have is just going up up up [TS]

01:15:23   everywhere our storage is going up and [TS]

01:15:25   we're storing things that are [TS]

01:15:27   increasingly precious to us like our [TS]

01:15:29   family photos and movies which are [TS]

01:15:30   irreplaceable priceless and we don't [TS]

01:15:33   have hard [TS]

01:15:33   copies of because everyone has digital [TS]

01:15:35   cameras and takes digital video and as [TS]

01:15:37   many backups as you have I'll just make [TS]

01:15:38   back observing well if this corruption [TS]

01:15:40   on your disk and you make a backup of it [TS]

01:15:42   you're just making a backup of the [TS]

01:15:43   corruption you know like if the if that [TS]

01:15:46   picture of your favorite picture of your [TS]

01:15:48   son or daughter is if the couple bites [TS]

01:15:50   got screwed up onto it because of a [TS]

01:15:52   hardware problem on your disk and you [TS]

01:15:53   make a backup of it when you ask the [TS]

01:15:55   disk for those bytes it's going to give [TS]

01:15:57   you the corrupted scrambled bytes so now [TS]

01:15:58   you have a backup of it and say you have [TS]

01:16:00   that backup and you push it through [TS]

01:16:01   backup online because you're using an [TS]

01:16:02   online backup service and you do the [TS]

01:16:03   whole thing that we talked about in the [TS]

01:16:04   backup vortex thing all you're doing is [TS]

01:16:07   propagating the corruption to all of [TS]

01:16:09   your backups possibly wiping out all [TS]

01:16:11   diversions that weren't corrupt because [TS]

01:16:13   eventually you know old versions of [TS]

01:16:14   files even if your backup service holds [TS]

01:16:16   old versions like Time Machine holds old [TS]

01:16:17   versions and some online ones have a [TS]

01:16:19   limited window of old versions [TS]

01:16:20   eventually your corruption will push out [TS]

01:16:23   all the old versions and then two years [TS]

01:16:25   later when you try to make a slideshow [TS]

01:16:26   let me look at the picture of my child [TS]

01:16:28   when you know when he or she was a [TS]

01:16:31   toddler and you look at that one [TS]

01:16:32   favorite picture and it's all scrambled [TS]

01:16:34   you're screwed and it's all because the [TS]

01:16:37   i/o system in the operating system in [TS]

01:16:39   the file system did no verification that [TS]

01:16:42   the data that it wrote really was data [TS]

01:16:43   that got stored there this is one thing [TS]

01:16:46   the biggest selling point of ZFS is that [TS]

01:16:48   it has provable data integrity where it [TS]

01:16:50   does not trust the hardware to do the [TS]

01:16:52   right thing it confirms that it has done [TS]

01:16:53   the right thing with a series of check [TS]

01:16:55   sums at various levels in the stack and [TS]

01:16:59   you say well so so what but it does [TS]

01:17:01   these check sums and now it knows it as [TS]

01:17:03   an error why is why is that helpful to [TS]

01:17:05   me [TS]

01:17:05   well because ZFS will tell you that [TS]

01:17:06   there's corruption and it has strategies [TS]

01:17:08   that you can do to to mitigate that so [TS]

01:17:11   one strategy is it can do a thing called [TS]

01:17:14   diddle blocks where it writes the same [TS]

01:17:15   data to multiple locations either on [TS]

01:17:16   multiple disks or even on the same disk [TS]

01:17:18   it can write the same data to multiple [TS]

01:17:19   locations so that if one version of that [TS]

01:17:22   data is corrupt it will still have a [TS]

01:17:23   good version it can repair itself and [TS]

01:17:25   heal itself if it tries to heal itself [TS]

01:17:27   on the healing fails then it can sit [TS]

01:17:28   they can make alert you and say hey this [TS]

01:17:31   disk where you're storing stuff it's not [TS]

01:17:32   doing what we're telling it to we told [TS]

01:17:34   the store of the sequence of bytes when [TS]

01:17:35   we did the checksum it's not storing [TS]

01:17:37   them it's giving us back some different [TS]

01:17:38   data and we tried to fix it and we [TS]

01:17:39   couldn't from our ditto block or [TS]

01:17:40   whatever so you should do something [TS]

01:17:42   about that so you'll be alerted [TS]

01:17:43   or you you know you could be alerted in [TS]

01:17:45   Apple's implementation the file system [TS]

01:17:46   can tell you this [TS]

01:17:47   devices is failing and it has a problem [TS]

01:17:49   you should do something about it now and [TS]

01:17:52   that will alert you in time to not have [TS]

01:17:54   the backup copy of this data propagate [TS]

01:17:57   across all your backups across all times [TS]

01:17:58   across all your 30-day window of [TS]

01:18:00   whatever you're keeping you can do [TS]

01:18:01   something about it at that point instead [TS]

01:18:03   of just silently going everywhere and [TS]

01:18:05   corrupting everything and of course they [TS]

01:18:07   can do multi volume raid type situations [TS]

01:18:10   where it spreads your data over multiple [TS]

01:18:12   discs then you have real protection [TS]

01:18:13   because I can say this this is going bad [TS]

01:18:14   you could just yank out the disk throw [TS]

01:18:16   in another one and it will you know [TS]

01:18:17   refill with the data this is the type of [TS]

01:18:21   thing that I think is not a frill and [TS]

01:18:23   not a silly thing that only servers need [TS]

01:18:26   that eventually it should be a required [TS]

01:18:29   feature of all devices that store [TS]

01:18:32   digital data that they should not trust [TS]

01:18:34   the hardware they should be trust but [TS]

01:18:35   verify [TS]

01:18:36   they should have check sums in every [TS]

01:18:38   piece of data that they put on to [TS]

01:18:39   permanent storage and confirm that [TS]

01:18:40   they're correct and if they're not [TS]

01:18:41   notify the user and HFS+ so lien doesn't [TS]

01:18:47   do that and neither do many other file [TS]

01:18:49   systems with ZFS does so those are the [TS]

01:18:51   two those are the two Biggie's on HFS [TS]

01:18:53   it's and notice I didn't even list [TS]

01:18:55   performance or anything like that which [TS]

01:18:56   their big issue there as well but but [TS]

01:18:58   there's reliability don't don't corrupt [TS]

01:19:01   yourself there's no hardware problem I [TS]

01:19:02   don't want the file system self screwing [TS]

01:19:04   up and then there is data integrity [TS]

01:19:05   which they're totally not touching at [TS]

01:19:07   all do something about data integrity if [TS]

01:19:10   it has to be there performance is the [TS]

01:19:12   third one where there's lots of really [TS]

01:19:14   silly things that HFS does in terms of [TS]

01:19:16   performance that are not up to snuff [TS]

01:19:17   alarm the biggest one is that like if [TS]

01:19:19   anyone is writing to an H of S Plus disk [TS]

01:19:20   it's one at a time you can't have [TS]

01:19:22   concurrent writes so if any other [TS]

01:19:24   process wants to write something has to [TS]

01:19:26   wait because it's one big global lock on [TS]

01:19:28   the entire catalog file of a metadata [TS]

01:19:31   for the entire volume that is just [TS]

01:19:32   ridiculous in an age of 18 cores you [TS]

01:19:35   know you imagine you have like a big [TS]

01:19:36   raid setup that appears as a single hfs+ [TS]

01:19:38   volume you have 17 spindles you can only [TS]

01:19:41   write to one at once because because the [TS]

01:19:44   file system says well I've got the [TS]

01:19:45   global lock nobody else can right right [TS]

01:19:47   wait [TS]

01:19:47   pretty hard yeah so all this I don't [TS]

01:19:53   know what Apple is going to do in this [TS]

01:19:54   area I'd ZFS plus the right choice but [TS]

01:19:56   maybe it isn't especially with SSDs like [TS]

01:20:00   the performance tree [TS]

01:20:00   office of SSDs versus spinning disks are [TS]

01:20:02   very different so it seems like if Apple [TS]

01:20:05   ever did make a next-generation file [TS]

01:20:06   system or adopt one from elsewhere it [TS]

01:20:08   should be designed with SSDs in mind and [TS]

01:20:09   not spinning disks in mind because that [TS]

01:20:11   is clearly the future so whatever they [TS]

01:20:15   do it could look very different from [TS]

01:20:18   even from any existing file system but I [TS]

01:20:19   think they need to do something [TS]

01:20:20   eventually and I don't think they can [TS]

01:20:23   get there by continuing to retrofit [TS]

01:20:25   stuff on to HFS+ forever and ever [TS]

01:20:27   because it's already kind of creaking [TS]

01:20:28   under its own weight [TS]

01:20:29   Oh that'd be good title creaking under [TS]

01:20:32   its own weight [TS]

01:20:33   maybe so that's it though John we get [TS]

01:20:37   her we get a wrap this Anna I'm 84 [TS]

01:20:40   minutes allowed to I'm allowed to bump [TS]

01:20:42   Gruber now because I got more downloads [TS]

01:20:43   in his show so he just I could just [TS]

01:20:44   start talking forever and you just sit [TS]

01:20:46   there twiddling his thumbs [TS]

01:20:47   don't tell I'll tell him you said that [TS]

01:20:48   yeah it's good to next week good to be [TS]

01:20:54   king right yeah I saw what briefly I saw [TS]

01:20:57   a lot of people in the chat room asking [TS]

01:20:58   for Ark despite you not wanting to talk [TS]

01:21:00   about it maybe next week we will [TS]

01:21:02   actually talk about Ark despite Dan [TS]

01:21:04   being tired of that topic alright so but [TS]

01:21:07   yeah so you're gonna be available next [TS]

01:21:09   week oh no not next week s last last [TS]

01:21:12   week lads it was a tease because last [TS]

01:21:14   week you said no no I'm on vacation and [TS]

01:21:16   we talked about that and here you are [TS]

01:21:18   stubbornly not going anywhere yeah no I [TS]

01:21:21   was confused about the dates so this [TS]

01:21:23   week I'm here next week I thought it was [TS]

01:21:25   impossible for a Vulcan to make a [TS]

01:21:27   mistake I'm not a Vulcan Romulan [TS]

01:21:30   whatever I'm not even into Star Trek [TS]

01:21:32   come on Star Wars [TS]

01:21:32   I'm a Star Wars guy alright we'll figure [TS]

01:21:34   you not mentioned it's hard to know you [TS]

01:21:36   change it up every week I don't I'm [TS]

01:21:39   consistent well we'll do we'll do [TS]

01:21:44   something all right can follow you can [TS]

01:21:47   follow John and you should follow him on [TS]

01:21:49   Twitter at siracusa nosy si RAC USA [TS]

01:21:53   siracusa [TS]

01:21:55   i'm dan benjamin on twitter we're very [TS]

01:21:57   glad and john wants you to go rate the [TS]

01:21:59   show so even though he get to the [TS]

01:22:01   downloads he doesn't get the rating so [TS]

01:22:03   this is what you do you go to itunes you [TS]

01:22:05   sign in you you find hypercritical and [TS]

01:22:08   you give it a five star rating do you [TS]

01:22:11   want your return do you want reviews or [TS]

01:22:13   just ratings or you don't care both [TS]

01:22:15   preferably but if you just want to do [TS]

01:22:17   rating that's fine but reviews are [TS]

01:22:18   always nice so that's what you do you go [TS]

01:22:22   there and do that you go to 5 by 5 TV to [TS]

01:22:25   to check out all the other shows that we [TS]

01:22:27   do and you can tune in live sometimes to [TS]

01:22:30   get freebies like you did today 5 by 5 [TS]

01:22:32   that TV slash live there's a link to the [TS]

01:22:35   schedule so you can see when we're doing [TS]

01:22:36   it and I John I hope you have a great [TS]

01:22:38   vacation we won't see you next week but [TS]

01:22:40   when you get back we'll try and do a [TS]

01:22:41   makeup episode and sounds good sure [TS]

01:22:44   alright yep [TS]

01:22:45   have a good one [TS]

01:22:58   you [TS]