Hypercritical

00:00:00 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:02 ◼   ► this is hypercritical [TS]

00:00:04 ◼   ► a weekly talkshow ruminating on exactly [TS]

00:00:07 ◼   ► what is wrong in the world of Apple and [TS]

00:00:09 ◼   ► related technologies and businesses [TS]

00:00:11 ◼   ► nothing is so perfect that it can't be [TS]

00:00:14 ◼   ► complained about hypercritical is hosted [TS]

00:00:16 ◼   ► by John siracusa and I'm Ryan Ireland [TS]

00:00:20 ◼   ► sitting in for Dan Benjamin this episode [TS]

00:00:23 ◼   ► of hypercritical is brought to you by [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► Shopify comm and Rackspace and we'll [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► hear more about them later in the show [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► bandwidth for hypercritical is brought [TS]

00:00:33 ◼   ► to you by Midas green tech Virtual [TS]

00:00:37 ◼   ► Private servers submerged in oil get [TS]

00:00:41 ◼   ► free bandwidth today at Midas green tech [TS]

00:00:43 ◼   ► comm / 5x5 all right John um let's go [TS]

00:00:48 ◼   ► ahead and get started with any um you [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► know I'm not Dan I'm Ryan and uh but we [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► but you still have a big list of stuff [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► you want to talk about I guess we should [TS]

00:00:58 ◼   ► start out with with some follow-ups from [TS]

00:01:00 ◼   ► last episode that's right I don't know [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► if did you listen to last episode of [TS]

00:01:03 ◼   ► that John I listened I listen to every [TS]

00:01:06 ◼   ► episode even though even if I wasn't [TS]

00:01:08 ◼   ► doing research as an understudy for Dan [TS]

00:01:11 ◼   ► actually do a show that's nice that's [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► nice to know [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► so last week we talked a little bit [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► about BBEdit versus textmate versus VI [TS]

00:01:21 ◼   ► versus Emacs vs. the world and I said a [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► couple things about BBEdit [TS]

00:01:28 ◼   ► mostly good but one or two things I said [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► was limited one of them was [TS]

00:01:32 ◼   ► multi-language support so BBEdit has the [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► concept of a language for a document so [TS]

00:01:37 ◼   ► it's a global setting in the bottom of [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► the document says what what language is [TS]

00:01:40 ◼   ► this document it's a very big list you [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► can pick from I don't know the full list [TS]

00:01:43 ◼   ► actually I'll pull it up now and take a [TS]

00:01:45 ◼   ► look so it's got it's got anything [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► everything from 68k assembler that's the [TS]

00:01:49 ◼   ► first one that phonetically speaking all [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► the way down to Y amel and about 50 [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► things in between so it's got a lot of [TS]

00:01:53 ◼   ► language support but I was talking about [TS]

00:01:55 ◼   ► text mates ability to have an awareness [TS]

00:01:59 ◼   ► of what context it's in within a [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► document so if you're editing an HTML [TS]

00:02:02 ◼   ► file for example it would know that [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► you're in a Java Script block and load [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► the bundles that are relevant to the [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► JavaScript stuff and you could do a [TS]

00:02:09 ◼   ► little fancy completion business based [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► on that context [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► um and I was saying I would like more of [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► that from BBEdit because it has support [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► for a huge number of languages but you [TS]

00:02:21 ◼   ► can't arbitrarily mix them together as [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► textmate seems to be able to do and I [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► also mentioned that in the context of [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► ybb ed it might be so fast because it's [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► not constantly trying to figure out what [TS]

00:02:32 ◼   ► context everything is in and syntax [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► highlighted at one of 18 different [TS]

00:02:35 ◼   ► supported languages at all times so I [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► don't know if that has anything to do [TS]

00:02:38 ◼   ► with why text mech textmate reportedly [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► beachballs when you paste in a huge [TS]

00:02:42 ◼   ► amount of text but I was just thrown [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► that out there so after I said that very [TS]

00:02:48 ◼   ► shortly after I said that I was told by [TS]

00:02:52 ◼   ► the people that know that actually I'm [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► not giving BBEdit enough credit for its [TS]

00:02:56 ◼   ► multi-language support and this is true [TS]

00:02:57 ◼   ► so I have a link to a video in the show [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► notes showing BB edits multi-language [TS]

00:03:03 ◼   ► support in the example in the book I [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► should have thought of since I've done [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► it myself is when you make an HTML [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► document and you pick like the language [TS]

00:03:10 ◼   ► and the document is HTML so that's a [TS]

00:03:12 ◼   ► global switch and BB edit for any [TS]

00:03:14 ◼   ► individual document say this is HTML but [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► within an HTML document BBEdit knows [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► like oh there might be JavaScript in our [TS]

00:03:22 ◼   ► the might be CSS in an HTML document so [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► the guys that bare-bones actually put [TS]

00:03:26 ◼   ► together a quick little videos like a [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► 30-second video showing hey look at me [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► I'm editing an HTML document and when [TS]

00:03:31 ◼   ► I'm in this little style block you know [TS]

00:03:34 ◼   ► between the style tags I get completions [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► based on CSS and when I'm inside the [TS]

00:03:38 ◼   ► HTML think pollutions based on [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► JavaScript so it just goes to show that [TS]

00:03:42 ◼   ► VBA continues to have more features than [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► I remember that it has I mean I I you [TS]

00:03:48 ◼   ► know the thing I was trying to get is [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► that you still can't arbitrarily mix [TS]

00:03:52 ◼   ► them so you can't have a document that [TS]

00:03:53 ◼   ► mixes you know tickle with sequel with [TS]

00:03:56 ◼   ► objective-c [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► with Fortran I mean even though beabea [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► that supports all those languages but [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► for the ones that really count like HTML [TS]

00:04:03 ◼   ► BB it has hard coded support for these [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► different languages in these different [TS]

00:04:06 ◼   ► contexts you know I I just I just [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► switched over to BB edit after using [TS]

00:04:12 ◼   ► textmate for I don't know probably like [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► everyone else what five years or [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► something like that and I can just to [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► come to your defense a little bit as far [TS]

00:04:22 ◼   ► as [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► you know forgetting maybe some of the [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► features that BBEdit [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► is that I'm just so new to it now that [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► that I'm still discovering and I use [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► BBEdit [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► back in like I think the last time I had [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► used it was like 2003 or 2004 and coming [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► back to it it's just taken me a long [TS]

00:04:42 ◼   ► time to unpack all these features again [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► I mean BBEdit is it's it's so powerful [TS]

00:04:48 ◼   ► that that that I didn't I don't use a [TS]

00:04:51 ◼   ► good chunk of of what it does and so I [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► can see how some of those things might [TS]

00:04:56 ◼   ► be overlooked and also things for me you [TS]

00:04:58 ◼   ► know where the whole concept of bundles [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► in in textmate I'm still trying to [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► figure out how how I can make that work [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► in BBEdit the way I was using it before [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► so baby it actually has is the problem [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► for a long time bb-8 here since I'm [TS]

00:05:11 ◼   ► using BBEdit since the beginning the [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► features that I tend to miss are the [TS]

00:05:14 ◼   ► ones that they've added and if I don't [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► go and seek them out and like oh I don't [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► need that I'm happy with the way I work [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► and bb-8 I won't know that they're there [TS]

00:05:21 ◼   ► so completions were added and like I [TS]

00:05:23 ◼   ► don't know lead version 89 they've been [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► around for a while you guys had all [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► sorts of completion things and they've [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► been improving but since I don't use [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► them because they didn't exist in like [TS]

00:05:31 ◼   ► 1995 when I built up all my habits you [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► know I used the HTML tools but I used [TS]

00:05:35 ◼   ► mostly like keyboard shortcuts for [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► making a new tag and entering the [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► attributes but not so much the [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► completion stuff but that exists and the [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► demo video that I linked to shows in [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► addition to multi language awareness [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► shows the completions in action stuff [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► and I bet there that stuff is not always [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► discoverable you know like if you don't [TS]

00:05:52 ◼   ► know the key sequences to trigger those [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► completions maybe you won't even know [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► that they're there and so I'm kind of [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► stuck in my rut of this is how I used [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► BBEdit in the the late nineties and if [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► there's some fancy new feature I don't [TS]

00:06:04 ◼   ► need that and then I just forget [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► completely forget that it exists but it [TS]

00:06:06 ◼   ► you know there's a lot of stuff in there [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► right and I think a lot of it seems like [TS]

00:06:09 ◼   ► there's been a lot of people that are [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► kind of switching I know since BBEdit n [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► came out and it was on the Mac App Store [TS]

00:06:14 ◼   ► I was like I'm going to grab it you know [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► it's it seems like a good time to try [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► now is that I'm trying to use BBEdit [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► like I use textmate and that's probably [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► not the right approach [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► well you can't approximate it like [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► actually in BPI 10 they added a new [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► feature I wish I could remember the name [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► of this was I should have had it on my [TS]

00:06:30 ◼   ► notes I think they call them packages or [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► something it's very similar to bundles [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► but they didn't use the word bundles [TS]

00:06:35 ◼   ► where it's a bunch of [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► ancient stuff that you can put in side [TS]

00:06:40 ◼   ► like self-contained and folder you could [TS]

00:06:42 ◼   ► like pass around to somebody's eye here [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► here's this cool BB edit package I made [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► that has like a bunch of text filters a [TS]

00:06:48 ◼   ► bunch of snippets a bunch of new menu [TS]

00:06:50 ◼   ► commands like you put a bunch of things [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► that extend BB edit together in a single [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► thing that you can share I think this is [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► the first step on you know trying to go [TS]

00:06:58 ◼   ► down that bundle type path where if you [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► if you make them reusable and you make [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► it so that individuals can package them [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► up then you start to have that social [TS]

00:07:04 ◼   ► effect that textmate have where people [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► sharing bundles with each other and [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► developing bundles and making [TS]

00:07:08 ◼   ► repositories of bundles and stuff like [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► that yeah and if they've done that with [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► the themes as well so it's yeah it's a [TS]

00:07:16 ◼   ► little bit easier now with you can see I [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► guess they call a scheme and so that [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► wasn't always the case right because I [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► think didn't John Gruber didn't you have [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► his BB colors or something like that [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► that he built that allowed you to easily [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► import different schemes and to be [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► beheaded [TS]

00:07:31 ◼   ► yeah like I'll D these features have [TS]

00:07:33 ◼   ► mostly always been there and BBEdit the [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► final level step is making the [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► infrastructure so that they're easier to [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► share so you don't give someone 20 page [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► instructions alright I'm going to give [TS]

00:07:42 ◼   ► you this file put in this directory if I [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► just pop it in that director or write a [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► little try to write an Apple script [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► install you know you just want it to be [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► self-contained like a folder full of [TS]

00:07:49 ◼   ► stuff that you just chuck in one [TS]

00:07:51 ◼   ► well-known location and I think they're [TS]

00:07:54 ◼   ► sort of laying the groundwork for you [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► can imagine several versions from now [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► once the infrastructure is there for all [TS]

00:07:59 ◼   ► these extension mechanisms to be [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► self-contained then you can actually [TS]

00:08:02 ◼   ► have the application automating it like [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► you drag one of these dot BB package I [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► don't remember the extension but dragged [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► one of these folders or zip files or [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► something onto the app and it would know [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► what it was and say hey it looks like [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► you're trying to install this thing you [TS]

00:08:13 ◼   ► want me to install it for you and you [TS]

00:08:14 ◼   ► never even have to know where the [TS]

00:08:16 ◼   ► application is putting it so I think [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► that it's smart for them to be laying [TS]

00:08:21 ◼   ► that groundwork now and it's getting [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► better with every version great what's [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► uh any more follow up from last episode [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► yeah so I also talked about launchers [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► Quicksilver or launch bar all that [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► business and I was talking about how I [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► never got into launch bar despite trying [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► it several times because it appeared in [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► the upper right hand corner and Dan said [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► well you you don't have to have it [TS]

00:08:41 ◼   ► appear in the upper right hand corner [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► you can put it in the middle so yeah but [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► I said yeah but the middle top right [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► like centered under the middle the menu [TS]

00:08:47 ◼   ► bar like you could slide it along the [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► menu bar and then we just moved on from [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► and then I quickly after the show that [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► email saying actually you can have [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► launched more dead center on the screen [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► not just centered under the menu bar and [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► I said huh maybe you know I haven't used [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► launch bar in a while maybe this is a [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► new feature of a new version I haven't [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► downloaded so I went to the website and [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► I downloaded the latest version of [TS]

00:09:06 ◼   ► launch bar and I threw it into my [TS]

00:09:08 ◼   ► Applications folder and it said would [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► you like to replace the existing version [TS]

00:09:11 ◼   ► I said yeah you must I've already had an [TS]

00:09:12 ◼   ► old version so I let it replace the [TS]

00:09:14 ◼   ► application and then I launch launch bar [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► using Quicksilver whatever launch launch [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► bar and what did I see when launch bar [TS]

00:09:21 ◼   ► launched the launch bar window dead [TS]

00:09:23 ◼   ► center on my screen so this means that I [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► had to previously downloaded whatever [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► version of launch bar enabled this [TS]

00:09:29 ◼   ► feature maybe was three or four who [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► knows how long ago it was put launch bar [TS]

00:09:32 ◼   ► in the middle of my screen and then [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► completely forgotten that it had the [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► ability to do this oh this is what [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► happens when you get old I guess so yes [TS]

00:09:39 ◼   ► launch bar can be exactly in the middle [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► of your screen and apparently I knew [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► this because my preferences had launch [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► bar exactly in the middle of my screen [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► but I still never went everywhere from [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► Quicksilver for the other reasons I [TS]

00:09:48 ◼   ► talked about I like the big icons are [TS]

00:09:50 ◼   ► like the way it looks I don't want to [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► read text so and so forth lots of Alfred [TS]

00:09:54 ◼   ► fans out there and as I said in the [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► previous show Alfred is as close as I've [TS]

00:09:58 ◼   ► come to leaving Quicksilver and sort of [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► the dark times of Quicksilver when it [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► didn't look like anyone was actively [TS]

00:10:02 ◼   ► maintaining it and it was getting flaky [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► I said I gotta find an alternative and [TS]

00:10:05 ◼   ► Alfred was the best alternative that I [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► found because I could make it the [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► closest to Quicksilver it had pretty big [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► icons you could put it where you wanted [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► it was you could trim it down to be very [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► simple I really just wanted it to be a [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► launcher really really close I would use [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► Alfred probably if I didn't have a [TS]

00:10:20 ◼   ► Quicksilver because the things that [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► launch bar does and all those other [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► thing and all the other things the [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► Quicksilver does I'm just not interested [TS]

00:10:25 ◼   ► in I just want it to be a launcher I [TS]

00:10:27 ◼   ► believe Alfred also has a million other [TS]

00:10:29 ◼   ► features but as long as I can ignore [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► them and pare them down and just make it [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► a launcher it's pretty nice one yeah I [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► switch to launch bar for the same reason [TS]

00:10:39 ◼   ► I switched I'm trying to switch to BB [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► edit which is I was trying to this is [TS]

00:10:42 ◼   ► back when just like you said when the [TS]

00:10:45 ◼   ► developer I think went to work for [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► Google for a Quicksilver I think that's [TS]

00:10:50 ◼   ► what what happened when he kind of just [TS]

00:10:52 ◼   ► stopped working on the project and I [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► wanted to work on I want to use [TS]

00:10:54 ◼   ► something that was being maintained and [TS]

00:10:56 ◼   ► this is before it was picked up by the [TS]

00:10:57 ◼   ► community but yeah but III do you know [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► the same thing I don't um I don't do a [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► whole lot [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► with launch bar in terms of scripting I [TS]

00:11:07 ◼   ► have a few that I do but I do a lot [TS]

00:11:09 ◼   ► where I'm opening files with it [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► especially if it's a file that I have [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► selected in the finder and it's probably [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► the same stuff you can do with [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► Quicksilver too but but I'm definitely a [TS]

00:11:17 ◼   ► minimalist user of launch bar so I [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► didn't actually know you could have it [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► in another screen I've always had it [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► come from the top middle I'm so on I'm [TS]

00:11:25 ◼   ► concerning with know how I got it in the [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► center I'm assuming you just drag it [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► there but oh okay that's it see that is [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► it Wow [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► all right there you go just just just a [TS]

00:11:35 ◼   ► command space so it's a so it shows that [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► I just dragged it and let's see if it'll [TS]

00:11:41 ◼   ► go away that's it you got it [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► very cool well thanks for that this [TS]

00:11:45 ◼   ► whole show has just been worth it now [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► and again this side so it's not like [TS]

00:11:50 ◼   ► someone else dragged it to the middle [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► the screen of my computer it's my [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► account of my computer I must have done [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► it but completely forgot about it [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► and speaking of like you mentioned [TS]

00:11:57 ◼   ► opening files from the finder that's one [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► utility that I haven't I haven't checked [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► whether it's been ported to line and I [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► really hope it can be ported line is a [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► default folder to use that I don't so [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► that's my go-to for like for example a [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► file that's selected in the finder [TS]

00:12:11 ◼   ► opening a file at selection in the [TS]

00:12:13 ◼   ► finder it's an extension to and opened [TS]

00:12:15 ◼   ► up the open dialog box it's been around [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► since the classic days under various [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► names think we just called the fault [TS]

00:12:20 ◼   ► folder now it's default folder capital X [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► or 10 or whatever you want to call it [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► and the main thing that it did back in [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► the classic days was it would remember [TS]

00:12:29 ◼   ► on a per application basis what folder [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► you were last looking at in this [TS]

00:12:33 ◼   ► application that was the feature that [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► might have been built into applications [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► but you know sometimes it wasn't and [TS]

00:12:38 ◼   ► it's just maddening like when you know [TS]

00:12:40 ◼   ► when I'm an image ready [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► dating myself for classic Mac OS web [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► development I manage ready I want to I [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► want to see this folder when I'm opening [TS]

00:12:46 ◼   ► I when I see this folder when I'm saving [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► but online I'm in my text edit I want to [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► see this folder when I'm opening but [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► this folder when I'm saving and that was [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► basically my default photo of the [TS]

00:12:56 ◼   ► application it has since expanded to be [TS]

00:12:59 ◼   ► a much more capable you know it's come [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► over to Mac OS tana obviously has got [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► tons and tons of features and one of my [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► favorite ones that I also used in the [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► classic days and the latter classic days [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► was when you have an open dialog box in [TS]

00:13:10 ◼   ► front of you you can hold the modifier [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► key and bring your mouse over we're open [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► windows in the finder would be if you [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► know there [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► read underneath all your windows because [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► you got a million apps open and then [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► windows and stuff like that but [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► underneath all of them in the bottom you [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► have a Finder window open and you know [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► that the document you want to open is [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► sitting right in that Finder window [TS]

00:13:28 ◼   ► that's open but that you can't see well [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► you can all down a modify our keystroke [TS]

00:13:31 ◼   ► put your mouse over that and it [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► highlights the outline of the Finder [TS]

00:13:35 ◼   ► window and shows you the name of it and [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► you can click on that ghostly outline of [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► the Finder window that's buried beneath [TS]

00:13:39 ◼   ► all your other windows and the open [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► dialog box switches to that window whew [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► and it has similar features where you [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► can the old one use that used to be able [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► to like modify click on an individual [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► file that you can see poking out on your [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► desktop or something and it would [TS]

00:13:52 ◼   ► automatically select that file and it's [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► you know you can pick you can pick from [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► recent folders that you've been in [TS]

00:13:57 ◼   ► favorite folders get tons and tons of [TS]

00:13:59 ◼   ► features keyboard shortcuts for all of [TS]

00:14:01 ◼   ► this the folder you were last and in [TS]

00:14:03 ◼   ► this application throughout you know I [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► think in history with it I use it all [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► the time and an open dialog box without [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► it is just barbaric to me so default [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► folder X yeah and so I defect on their [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► website and it's they say default folder [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► X 4.4.3 corrects problems for Lion users [TS]

00:14:21 ◼   ► well there you go so looks like they [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► have a rubies out from the 22nd of July [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► so if anybody's having problems I guess [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► that's a you can go get your your oh [TS]

00:14:32 ◼   ► it's a paid upgrade there you go oh no [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► its update the update is free but it's [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► part of I guess it's the they're just [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► saying that default 4x4 is a paid [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► upgrade so yeah I think I recently had [TS]

00:14:43 ◼   ► an upgrade I'm still running Snow [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► Leopard here and I it has an automatic [TS]

00:14:46 ◼   ► built in updater I think I recently did [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► update it but I guess they didn't look [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► at the changes and the reason I wondered [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► whether it would be compatible or not is [TS]

00:14:52 ◼   ► because for sandboxed applications in [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► Lion the open dialog box is presented by [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► the power box daemon and not by the [TS]

00:14:59 ◼   ► application itself and default folder is [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► sort of one of those hacks that latches [TS]

00:15:03 ◼   ► on to a system function and modifies it [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► I don't know exactly how hacky it is but [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► I'm sure it's something that Apple [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► wishes didn't exist and what I would say [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► to Apple is if you don't want it to [TS]

00:15:13 ◼   ► exist take all the good features turned [TS]

00:15:15 ◼   ► if I'm sorry default folder X developer [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► if you doesn't think I'm going to [TS]

00:15:19 ◼   ► destroy your business but it's like I [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► should put some of this in the show [TS]

00:15:23 ◼   ► notes I wrote something on my blog at R [TS]

00:15:26 ◼   ► as years ago called paths in the grass [TS]

00:15:29 ◼   ► or something like that [TS]

00:15:31 ◼   ► and I was adopting a story that I heard [TS]

00:15:34 ◼   ► at a Perl conference that predates that [TS]

00:15:37 ◼   ► as well and it was about Stanford [TS]

00:15:39 ◼   ► University I think they said when they [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► built the campus they didn't build any [TS]

00:15:43 ◼   ► sidewalks it into any paved sidewalks [TS]

00:15:44 ◼   ► instead they just probably grass [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► everywhere and then they just waited a [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► year to see where on the grass people [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► warpath's from walking between buildings [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► mm-hmm but like what the people pick the [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► most efficient comfortable walking path [TS]

00:15:55 ◼   ► in terms of the terrain and the hills [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► and and who goes from building X to [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► building Y and then after people had [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► worn the grass down they just built the [TS]

00:16:02 ◼   ► paths where people had worn the the the [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► grass down that's where they put the [TS]

00:16:05 ◼   ► cement rather than trying to guess where [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► people might go and putting pavement [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► there and having people not going to pay [TS]

00:16:11 ◼   ► its path because it's not where they [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► would want to walk and that story is [TS]

00:16:14 ◼   ► used to justify tons and tons of things [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► I used it to a discussion of taxis those [TS]

00:16:20 ◼   ► on sanity applications that would be [TS]

00:16:22 ◼   ► memory resonated inside every running [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► process and modify the processes that do [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► something need these types of hacks like [TS]

00:16:28 ◼   ► default folder 10 where in order for [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► them to provide the functionality that [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► they provide they have to latch on to [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► some system function sort of illegally [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► but you know in unexpected ways they [TS]

00:16:40 ◼   ► have to take an existing process like [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► the open dialog box and grab on to it [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► and then I'm going to modify you sort of [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► without your knowledge and consent [TS]

00:16:47 ◼   ► because that's the only way I can [TS]

00:16:48 ◼   ► provide my functionality Apple doesn't [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► like those because they compromise the [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► stability of the system where it's like [TS]

00:16:53 ◼   ► well you know we wrote our application [TS]

00:16:55 ◼   ► not expecting you to jump into our [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► memory image and display your own little [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► window here or do whatever you know or [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► call internal api's and stuff like that [TS]

00:17:01 ◼   ► so please don't write those things and [TS]

00:17:03 ◼   ► of course within the Mac App Store they [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► can enforce it and say this is not a lot [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► of the Mac App Store because it modifies [TS]

00:17:09 ◼   ► this is a system in ways that we don't [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► agree with or whatever but if users like [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► these functions they will buy these [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► products and you know that was my [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► example of a window shade or default [TS]

00:17:20 ◼   ► folder 10 or I think is being the paths [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► in the grass where people are walking in [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► that path going in that direction you [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► know because that functionality they [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► want and that's a signal for Apple not [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► to keep replanting grass over there and [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► say no no you can't walk there but to [TS]

00:17:34 ◼   ► say I guess how people obviously want to [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► do this they want this functionality why [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► don't we take this functionality and [TS]

00:17:39 ◼   ► build it into the operating system or at [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► least provide clean api's for third [TS]

00:17:44 ◼   ► party developers or do something [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► you know rather than trying to say you [TS]

00:17:47 ◼   ► can't modify running applications you [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► can't do these you know that make these [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► in-memory hacks or anything like that [TS]

00:17:53 ◼   ► you can't inject your code into our [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► applications don't just keep trying to [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► close that door look at why people keep [TS]

00:17:59 ◼   ► doing this because it's not as if you [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► know some phone writes an application [TS]

00:18:03 ◼   ► that injects itself into every running [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► application if that becomes very popular [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► it's not because people love injecting [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► code and other applications most people [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► have no idea how it works they just know [TS]

00:18:12 ◼   ► that it does work in fact they may [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► notice that the stability of their [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► system decreases because they run this [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► but they keep running it why do they [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► keep running it because they really [TS]

00:18:19 ◼   ► really want you know insert feature here [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► they really really want window shade [TS]

00:18:22 ◼   ► they really really want the features [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► that default folder ten provides they're [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► not doing it for kicks and they're not [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► doing it despite Apple they're doing it [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► because the functionality is useful so [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► and in all these cases with as a popular [TS]

00:18:35 ◼   ► if it's default holders like I said it's [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► been around for decades now it's not [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► like this is a fluke it's not like you [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► know some crazy new application it'll be [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► a fad it'll go away people have been [TS]

00:18:43 ◼   ► using this and paying for it for years [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► and years obviously they want this [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► functionality so Apple if Apple doesn't [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► think this functionality is appropriate [TS]

00:18:50 ◼   ► for the operating system at the very [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► least provide clean supported hooks for [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► applications like default folder 10 to [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► do what it does because I think now it's [TS]

00:18:58 ◼   ► too complicated we don't want the open [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► set a dialog box to have them any [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► giggles we think that mouse-over thing [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► we use like finder windows is just to [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► undiscoverable and and it doesn't make [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► sense for the target demographic than we [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► want at least provide hooks at least [TS]

00:19:12 ◼   ► provide an API is as if you want to [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► extend the open save dialog box we made [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► an officially supported extension [TS]

00:19:16 ◼   ► mechanism kind of like they did with [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► Safari extensions because there were [TS]

00:19:20 ◼   ► Safari extensions for years like saft [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► and what was that other one there's a [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► couple other popular ones that extended [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► Safari in quote unquote illegal ways by [TS]

00:19:27 ◼   ► jamming themselves into the memory image [TS]

00:19:29 ◼   ► and calling Safari API s and extending [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► stuff and Apple didn't like that and [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► they said no no we'll make a real [TS]

00:19:34 ◼   ► extension mechanisms officially [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► supported Safari extensions and here's [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► the limited set of things you can do but [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► it covers most of the bases you can have [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► your own little windows you can have [TS]

00:19:42 ◼   ► your own little preferences you can make [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► toolbar buttons you know most of the [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► things that extensions we're trying to [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► do we will now provide an official [TS]

00:19:49 ◼   ► mechanism for that was the right thing [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► to do and they should do that in all [TS]

00:19:52 ◼   ► other cases where there are these paths [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► born in the grass from people walking [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► over and over again to this particular [TS]

00:19:57 ◼   ► destination more [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► more apps sold in the App Store more [TS]

00:20:00 ◼   ► happy customers it seems like a logical [TS]

00:20:03 ◼   ► thing for them to do yeah it still comes [TS]

00:20:07 ◼   ► down to trade-offs because to build the [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► Safari extension mechanism they had to [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► say alright we're going to we have to [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► come up with an API documentation we [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► have to support it we have to make sure [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► our extensions can't crash the browser [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► like is which which they do some gems [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► yeah I know it there is an effort and [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► there is some comrades I think they felt [TS]

00:20:24 ◼   ► the pressure to do it with Safari [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► because chrome has extensions Firefox [TS]

00:20:27 ◼   ► has extensions you know and Firefox had [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► extensions for years and years like [TS]

00:20:30 ◼   ► there was grease monkey and all his [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► other add-ons so the Safari didn't feel [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► the pressure then but once Firefox had [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► it and chrome had it and Chrome's market [TS]

00:20:38 ◼   ► share started to pass safaris then it's [TS]

00:20:41 ◼   ► kind of like okay well as extensions to [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► Safari but window shade they held strong [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► on and I actually stopped using window [TS]

00:20:47 ◼   ► shade recently just to get the last taxi [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► off my system but I was sad about it I [TS]

00:20:50 ◼   ► really want to use window shade I like [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► window shade I just don't like the way [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► it has to be implemented and I blame [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► Apple for that not that not the [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► developers I I thank the developers on [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► sanity window shade I would have paid [TS]

00:21:00 ◼   ► for that every year they had a [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► subscription basis and I still know [TS]

00:21:04 ◼   ► people who want to use it I think Apple [TS]

00:21:06 ◼   ► should just either build that into the [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► system or make it a hidden preference or [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► build some sort of easy hook so that it [TS]

00:21:11 ◼   ► can be added because it's popular with a [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► certain subset of people and again if [TS]

00:21:16 ◼   ► they don't want to build it in because [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► if you build it in then you're you're [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► crushing a developer it's like oh you [TS]

00:21:19 ◼   ► said they should add default folder 10s [TS]

00:21:21 ◼   ► functionality to open save and they did [TS]

00:21:22 ◼   ► and now that developers out of business [TS]

00:21:23 ◼   ► so good job there well that happens all [TS]

00:21:25 ◼   ► the time [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► in the Mac world some feature that was a [TS]

00:21:29 ◼   ► popular buy application ends up being [TS]

00:21:30 ◼   ► folded into the OS that's just the way [TS]

00:21:34 ◼   ► life goes you know some some features [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► you could say well they really shouldn't [TS]

00:21:39 ◼   ► have built in a Photoshop competitor [TS]

00:21:40 ◼   ► into the OS because now I don't we can't [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► sell Photoshop and that was a bad move [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► so some things some things are arguably [TS]

00:21:47 ◼   ► not really appropriate as part of the OS [TS]

00:21:49 ◼   ► and it's just Apple competing with a [TS]

00:21:51 ◼   ► third-party boot but if you're extending [TS]

00:21:52 ◼   ► the open and save dialog box that's [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► clearly a core part of the OS and if [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► anyone's going to enhance the open and [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► save dollar box and Apple has enhanced [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► it in each version of Mac OS 10 but if [TS]

00:22:01 ◼   ► they're going to further enhance it I [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► would think that the makers of default [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► folder 10 would say you know it's not [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► like we didn't see this coming they're [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► always improving the open save dialog [TS]

00:22:11 ◼   ► box [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► we're kind of flattered that they stole [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► our features we're sad that we now can't [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► sell this product as much anymore they [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► would prefer to Apple it provided clean [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► hooks to extend it so it was like a [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► third party opportunity for everybody to [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► extend the open save dialog box but so [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► far Apple has done neither no API has [TS]

00:22:28 ◼   ► not integrated the features so I [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► continue to be a happy customer default [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► folder 10 but not as happy as I would be [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► if any of those other two scenarios we [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► should add a link add that to your list [TS]

00:22:41 ◼   ► put that in the in the the show links to [TS]

00:22:44 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► yep the 4x10 further there lion support [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► it's important for people that maybe [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► didn't realize that it it worked online [TS]

00:22:53 ◼   ► so I'm gonna check that out I actually [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► you haven't used a felt product in [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► before so it's one of those things that [TS]

00:22:58 ◼   ► people from classic know about kind of [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► like window shade because if you came to [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► Mac OS 10 and never use classic you [TS]

00:23:03 ◼   ► wouldn't know window shade ever existed [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► and you would never seek it out [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► same thing with if you didn't know a [TS]

00:23:07 ◼   ► default folder didn't know that name or [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► didn't know of the features you wouldn't [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► be seeking out something that does that [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► in Mac OS 10 if you had never used it [TS]

00:23:14 ◼   ► right so for all of us classic guys we [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► were looking for things that work like [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► or replace or are actually the exam [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► exact product as the things we used in [TS]

00:23:23 ◼   ► classic one example of that is the I [TS]

00:23:26 ◼   ► remember complaining a lot about the [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► Apple menu in Mac OS 10 that it wasn't [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► you know the old Apple menu was an older [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► where you could chuck stuff in and then [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► whatever you threw in that folder would [TS]

00:23:35 ◼   ► appear in the menu so you could make [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► little sub folders full of applications [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► and and stuff like that and you can [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► arrange it together or a custom menu in [TS]

00:23:41 ◼   ► the upper left hand corner to find [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► frequently accessed items and when Mac [TS]

00:23:46 ◼   ► OS 10 came out Apple said no you can't [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► customize the Apple menu anymore the [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► contents of the Apple menu is you know [TS]

00:23:51 ◼   ► it's about this Mac and like three or [TS]

00:23:53 ◼   ► four other little things and then quit [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► shutdown sleep logout and that's it you [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► can't you can't add stuff to it and a [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► classic Mac OS people like me were [TS]

00:24:01 ◼   ► saying well that was where I went to [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► launch all my applications and open all [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► my recently used folders and stuff [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► what's the equivalent of that so I'll [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► just throw it in the dock the dock is so [TS]

00:24:10 ◼   ► much worse the dock takes up this huge [TS]

00:24:12 ◼   ► amount of space you can't add too many [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► things to it there was no like [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► subfolders initially where you couldn't [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► you know navigate down five levels into [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► the hierarchy [TS]

00:24:19 ◼   ► why not just use the Apple engine for [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► that and Apple said no no we're not [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► doing that what Apple should have done [TS]

00:24:24 ◼   ► and what the class [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► like macros people like me eventually [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► did was introduced something better fine [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► you don't like the Apple menu you don't [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► think like people throwing stuff in [TS]

00:24:32 ◼   ► there you want to use the Apple menu for [TS]

00:24:33 ◼   ► something else you don't want it all [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► clutter it up fine give us a better [TS]

00:24:36 ◼   ► alternative and Apple said well our [TS]

00:24:37 ◼   ► better alternative is the back and you [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► know power user support unquote but like [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► me we're saying that's not as good it's [TS]

00:24:45 ◼   ► not as good for reasons XY and Z I want [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► something better and when something [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► better came along it wasn't from Apple [TS]

00:24:50 ◼   ► it was basically for me Quicksilver I [TS]

00:24:52 ◼   ► can launch with Quicksilver much faster [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► than I ever did could with the classic [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► you know Apple menu that's what I was [TS]

00:24:59 ◼   ► looking for I was looking for Apple to [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► say you know command space the first few [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► letters your application is going to [TS]

00:25:03 ◼   ► make you way happier than the [TS]

00:25:05 ◼   ► customizable Apple in you ever did and [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► that is totally true and so I don't give [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► a thought to the Apple menu anymore I [TS]

00:25:10 ◼   ► have no bitterness about the Apple man [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► you're not working like it did before [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► because Quicksilver is so much better it [TS]

00:25:15 ◼   ► does you know even though the [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► functionality seems to be not equivalent [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► it's not a menu full of items you can [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► customize it's not exactly the same [TS]

00:25:21 ◼   ► mechanism the things I use it for [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► quickly finding and launching [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► applications are the same and that's [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► what I was looking for for Apple way [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► back when when I was complaining about [TS]

00:25:31 ◼   ► the Apple menu was either keep what [TS]

00:25:34 ◼   ► we've got or give us something just as [TS]

00:25:36 ◼   ► good or give us something that's better [TS]

00:25:37 ◼   ► even if a thing that's better isn't [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► totally different like Quicksilver [TS]

00:25:39 ◼   ► whoever even thought of that you know [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► command space and then this weird window [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► comes up or you can type stuff it's [TS]

00:25:44 ◼   ► nonsensical but in practice it in [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► practice it's great so that's another [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► example of the varying scenarios of [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► taking away things that people are used [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► to without providing a replacement it's [TS]

00:25:55 ◼   ► better if you you can provide a [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► replacement that's that's even better [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► even if it's totally different let's [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► take a break and talk about one of our [TS]

00:26:03 ◼   ► sponsors for this episode this episode [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► is brought to you by Shopify comm it is [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► the internet's internet's most elegant [TS]

00:26:11 ◼   ► customizable and affordable hosted [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► ecommerce platform with Shopify you can [TS]

00:26:17 ◼   ► take advantage of their thriving theme [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► and application community and you can [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► add beauty and depth to your site you [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► know with Shopify and you may not have [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► you might not know this is that you can [TS]

00:26:28 ◼   ► actually customize your storefront with [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► your own HTML CSS and even if you want [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► you can use your own JavaScript so for [TS]

00:26:37 ◼   ► 5x5 listeners for a limited time [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► you can join Shopify and enjoy your [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► first three months for free and to do [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► that when you go join make sure you use [TS]

00:26:47 ◼   ► the discount code 5x5 that's the number [TS]

00:26:50 ◼   ► 5b y and then the number five so be sure [TS]

00:26:53 ◼   ► to check out out Shopify at Shopify comm [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► which is a shop in minutes and a [TS]

00:26:58 ◼   ► business for life alright that's so I [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► have the show and follow up I think [TS]

00:27:02 ◼   ► that's all the follow up I have all [TS]

00:27:04 ◼   ► right what's new since since the last [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► show what do you got no this we're still [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► believe it or not wending our way [TS]

00:27:13 ◼   ► through things covered in my lion [TS]

00:27:15 ◼   ► article I think maybe this will be the [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► last one so this is the the epic article [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► that you do for every major release at [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► at ARS technica that's right and we [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► talked about lots of stuff from that [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► article so far taking a section each [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► show or whatever and there's one section [TS]

00:27:36 ◼   ► this is something people wanted me to [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► talk about before my line review came [TS]

00:27:39 ◼   ► out I sort of had a moratorium of [TS]

00:27:41 ◼   ► talking about lion features on the [TS]

00:27:43 ◼   ► podcast for house I'll sit you know save [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► it for the review visit if I talked [TS]

00:27:47 ◼   ► about it I would feel like I was just [TS]

00:27:49 ◼   ► reading from my review in progress so I [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► just wanted to have a radio silence to [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► the review come out then we have the big [TS]

00:27:53 ◼   ► review and we can talk about it so [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► people were constantly asking me after [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► WWC you got to talk about this thing [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► called arc when is John gonna talk about [TS]

00:27:59 ◼   ► arc on the show and I said no no wait [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► for the review to come out and the [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► review came out and then we talked about [TS]

00:28:03 ◼   ► the review and like four or five shows [TS]

00:28:05 ◼   ► and still never got the arc so today I [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► think is the day we will finally talk [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► about arc and like all the other things [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► that I've talked about in line you [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► should just go to the e section of my [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► line review and there you will find a [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► pretty big dump of what I have to say [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► about arc so I'm not going to repeat [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► that entire section it's linked in the [TS]

00:28:27 ◼   ► show notes you should read it you should [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► pause now and read it if you haven't [TS]

00:28:31 ◼   ► read it because I will assume you have [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► already read it understand it but I'm [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► just going to sort of hear some of the [TS]

00:28:35 ◼   ► sites this is page 11 for those falling [TS]

00:28:37 ◼   ► at home on the website I think it's 10 I [TS]

00:28:40 ◼   ► was saying go to page 10 because 10 [TS]

00:28:43 ◼   ► gives context 11 talks about the [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► specific estar oh you're right you're [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► right you're right yep you are correct [TS]

00:28:48 ◼   ► page 10 alright so brief recap the [TS]

00:28:52 ◼   ► reason people were [TS]

00:28:53 ◼   ► talking people kept asking me to talk [TS]

00:28:55 ◼   ► about work because I had a previous show [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► which was episode 14 or something let me [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► look at the the notes here [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► oh yes episode 14 was entitled a Dark [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► Age of objective-c I think on this shows [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► book ending 14 on 13 and 15 I also [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► talked about similar issues but what I [TS]

00:29:13 ◼   ► was discussing was a series of articles [TS]

00:29:15 ◼   ► I wrote years ago called Copeland 2010 [TS]

00:29:18 ◼   ► which was about how Apple's use of [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► objective-c and cocoa api's which are [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► which is a language and an API created [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► for next computer back in the 90s I [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► guess it 1989 was objective-c and then [TS]

00:29:32 ◼   ► in the early 90s next and everything how [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► that could end up being a problem for [TS]

00:29:37 ◼   ► Apple going forward because all of its [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► competitors on the desktop and mobile [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► platforms have languages and api's that [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► are higher level that they don't they [TS]

00:29:46 ◼   ► don't make the developers deal directly [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► with the memory that their memory safe [TS]

00:29:51 ◼   ► that they don't require manual [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► allocation of the allocation of memory [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► that they have higher level concepts [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► they're not a superset of C and in the [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► series of articles and in my various [TS]

00:30:01 ◼   ► follows up follow-ups that series of [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► articles most of which are linked from [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► the arc section of my line review I [TS]

00:30:07 ◼   ► talked about both sides of it on the one [TS]

00:30:09 ◼   ► hand Apple using objective-c is an [TS]

00:30:13 ◼   ► advantage for them particularly in [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► mobile because it's lower level because [TS]

00:30:16 ◼   ► you can get more efficiency out of it [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► you can mix easily with existing C code [TS]

00:30:20 ◼   ► and C libraries the cocoa API it being [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► so old is an advantage because mature [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► and time-tested and refined and polished [TS]

00:30:28 ◼   ► and has you know it's not something [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► brand new debt is untested in real world [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► applications people have been building [TS]

00:30:34 ◼   ► applications with these next-step api's [TS]

00:30:37 ◼   ► for years and years before Apple even [TS]

00:30:39 ◼   ► came along and now it's even better [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► these are all advantages of objective-c [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► and cocoa the disadvantages I was saying [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► is that programming languages just get [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► higher level over time back in the dawn [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► of the Mac huge sections of the [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► operating system and many of the [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► applications were written in assembly [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► which is unheard of today you would [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► never write a GUI application and [TS]

00:30:59 ◼   ► assembly or anything having to do with [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► the GUI application and assembly except [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► maybe some little tight loop somewhere [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► for some numeric computation but even [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► then it's not that common these days [TS]

00:31:07 ◼   ► and C and C++ have been dominant for [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► years and years but in in say after in [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► the 2000s whatever you want to call this [TS]

00:31:16 ◼   ► millennium decade most other development [TS]

00:31:19 ◼   ► platforms have started to switch away [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► from C C++ to other languages that are [TS]

00:31:25 ◼   ► higher level so Java obviously came and [TS]

00:31:27 ◼   ► just covered the earth with a memory [TS]

00:31:31 ◼   ► safe language where there are no more [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► pointers and there's no more dealing [TS]

00:31:34 ◼   ► with memory manually this garbage [TS]

00:31:36 ◼   ► collection it looks a lot cut a lot like [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► C++ and it still got the same kind of [TS]

00:31:40 ◼   ► bondage and discipline over static [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► typing and stuff like that [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► but you don't have to deal with memory [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► and it's unquestionably a higher-level [TS]

00:31:45 ◼   ► language than C or C++ and then [TS]

00:31:50 ◼   ► Microsoft of course says c-sharp in its [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► common language runtime and its various [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► things built on top of that again memory [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► safety similar to C++ very similar to [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► Java but higher-level language [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► constructs like linked to sequel and [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► stuff like that things that are not [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► really easier or even possible in many [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► cases with a low-level language like C [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► and my argument way back when it because [TS]

00:32:12 ◼   ► it's 2005 or so is that Apple needs a [TS]

00:32:15 ◼   ► plan here because you don't just come up [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► with a new language and API overnight [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► you can't say well you know objective-c [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► and these next API guys were great but [TS]

00:32:21 ◼   ► next year we're gonna have a new one you [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► you can't just you know you have to [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► takes years and years and years to [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► transition and you have to make sure you [TS]

00:32:28 ◼   ► what you're transitioning to is good and [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► say what are they going to transition to [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► it they can they don't want to use a [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► competitor's language they don't use [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► Java for example because back then you [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► know that was Suns thing and you can [TS]

00:32:37 ◼   ► look at Google using its don't call it [TS]

00:32:39 ◼   ► Java Java thing on the dalvik VM their [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► current legal woes with Oracle and all [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► that business [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► I don't think Apple wants any part of [TS]

00:32:46 ◼   ► that the common language runtime there's [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► this mono and net with an open source [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► inhalation of net is this mono runtime [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► and the c-sharp language is standardized [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► but Microsoft mostly controls it does [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► does Apple want to adopt Microsoft's [TS]

00:33:00 ◼   ► language and API stack probably not I [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► mean they like being masters to the own [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► destiny so I said Apple if you're going [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► to yeah there's going to come a day when [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► the fact that people have to deal with [TS]

00:33:09 ◼   ► pointers in manual memory allocation is [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► going to be a problem for you and 2005 [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► people left so that's ridiculous it's [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► perfectly fine the next developer said [TS]

00:33:16 ◼   ► we've been doing this for years you [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► don't know what you're talking about our [TS]

00:33:18 ◼   ► API is are all better than theirs [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► doesn't matter that [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► is higher-level the API suck next up [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► api's are awesome most of that is [TS]

00:33:24 ◼   ► actually true but you know you can't you [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► can't hold back the tide at a certain [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► point it's just going to become [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► ridiculous to be dealing in a language [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► where you can accidentally scribble all [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► over your own memory or you can [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► accidentally access something off the [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► ends of an array and crash your entire [TS]

00:33:40 ◼   ► application you know or where you have [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► to manually or allocate memory or retain [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► and release and stuff like that it'll [TS]

00:33:47 ◼   ► just end up looking silly no I said in [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► later follow-ups that the mobile the [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► dawn of the mobile age has given Apple [TS]

00:33:54 ◼   ► and extension or stay of execution [TS]

00:33:55 ◼   ► because on mobile you have less memory [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► less CPU everything else is just tighter [TS]

00:34:00 ◼   ► and it's kind of like going back in time [TS]

00:34:02 ◼   ► platform wise say ah season aren't you [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► glad that we have this awesome sea based [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► language and API and we can be fast and [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► memory efficient than our batteries last [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► a long time and our competitors have [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► these VMs they're you eyes aren't smooth [TS]

00:34:13 ◼   ► because they're garbage collector is [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► running and making everything stutter [TS]

00:34:15 ◼   ► that has made it more feasible for Apple [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► to stick with this but it all does is [TS]

00:34:22 ◼   ► delay things so again I started asking [TS]

00:34:24 ◼   ► now here we are in 2011 so what what's [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► Apple going to do about this it seems [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► like they have a problem here against [TS]

00:34:30 ◼   ► their competitors and their competitors [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► for the most part I've already paid the [TS]

00:34:33 ◼   ► very painful price to convert from what [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► they had before to this new thing it's [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► always like a long horrible painful [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► process too fast Microsoft about it [TS]

00:34:41 ◼   ► Google had the advantage of starting [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► from scratch with a memory manage [TS]

00:34:44 ◼   ► language they didn't have to deal with [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► that same thing with like webOS or [TS]

00:34:47 ◼   ► whatever with using HTML and JavaScript [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► and poms platform despite pom apparently [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► not doing well selling devices its OS [TS]

00:34:55 ◼   ► has gotten nice reviews and its API is [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► not low level like apples in all cases [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► they think they have some native API for [TS]

00:35:02 ◼   ► making games but they're there GUI API [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► is much higher low so @ww C 2011 Apple [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► made an announcement that they had [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► something called Ark which stands for [TS]

00:35:12 ◼   ► automatic reference counting now in the [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► thing that I linked to in my lion review [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► I talked all about what is reference [TS]

00:35:20 ◼   ► counting first not automatic growing [TS]

00:35:21 ◼   ► scan but just plain old what is [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► reference counting it's a way that it's [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► a convention for managing memory for [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► objects in the next step slash cocoa [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► api's and it's very it's existed for a [TS]

00:35:30 ◼   ► very long time to be a cocoa developer [TS]

00:35:33 ◼   ► you used to have to know and [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► understand this stuff it it has to do [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► with retaining a reference to an object [TS]

00:35:39 ◼   ► that you're going to use and then [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► releasing it when you're done and when [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► nobody else is retaining one then the [TS]

00:35:43 ◼   ► object gets the allocated automatic [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► reference counting this thing that they [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► introduced is basically the same as [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► reference counting except that you don't [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► have to write the parts where it says [TS]

00:35:55 ◼   ► retain this release that auto release [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► that the compiler will write it for you [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► so you take your existing program it's [TS]

00:36:02 ◼   ► just the one you wrote according to the [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► Coco rules with retain release so on and [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► so forth and release and remove all the [TS]

00:36:07 ◼   ► calls to retain release and auto release [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► just erase them all and then compile [TS]

00:36:11 ◼   ► your program and the compiler will [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► figure out where it needs to retain [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► where it needs to release and all that [TS]

00:36:17 ◼   ► stuff so the name is very apt automatic [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► reference counting its reference [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► counting memory it's not a garbage [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► collector it's not anything like Java it [TS]

00:36:23 ◼   ► doesn't introduce memory safety it [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► doesn't remove pointers doesn't know [TS]

00:36:27 ◼   ► anything like that all does is say we [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► don't want you guys to have to write [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► this memory management code anymore [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► we'll write it for you and it will be [TS]

00:36:34 ◼   ► more efficient you'll have to write [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► fewer lines of code and it will be more [TS]

00:36:39 ◼   ► error-free so that's what arc is and a [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► lot of people are asking me well doesn't [TS]

00:36:48 ◼   ► it solve the problem you were talking [TS]

00:36:49 ◼   ► about with this Copeland 2010 business [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► or isn't this their Apple solution to [TS]

00:36:54 ◼   ► this problem of having a low-level [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► language and my answer mostly is arc is [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► good but and it helps but it doesn't [TS]

00:37:02 ◼   ► really address the the problem that I [TS]

00:37:04 ◼   ► was talking about the thing is [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► interesting about arc is that what it [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► does do is reveal that Apple agrees at [TS]

00:37:11 ◼   ► least to some degree that there is some [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► sort of problem here that they're behind [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► in some regard if they thought [TS]

00:37:16 ◼   ► everything was fine like our language [TS]

00:37:18 ◼   ► and API is the best there's no problem [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► with that we are ahead of our [TS]

00:37:20 ◼   ► competitors in all areas they wouldn't [TS]

00:37:22 ◼   ► be undertaking an effort like this what [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► what this effort shows is that they [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► agree that there are things about other [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► platforms mobile and desktop then make [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► them more attractive than Apple's [TS]

00:37:34 ◼   ► platforms and they pick this makes me [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► think that they believe the number one [TS]

00:37:38 ◼   ► problem that new developers coming over [TS]

00:37:40 ◼   ► from another platform or something will [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► say is like are I'm going to try to [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► learn how to develop Rio Esther for the [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► Mac or something and they start learning [TS]

00:37:45 ◼   ► about cocoa and they say I have to do [TS]

00:37:47 ◼   ► hey release yeah as someone we talked [TS]

00:37:51 ◼   ► about this over email and as someone who [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► is you know just familiar with with with [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► cocoa development in an iOS development [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► where I've just kind of gone in and and [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► just started becoming familiar with it I [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► describe myself to you as a newbie to it [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► so that I'm not um you know I know what [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► I know what you're talking about but I [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► know exactly what you mean to where I [TS]

00:38:13 ◼   ► was I was following along you know [TS]

00:38:15 ◼   ► Stanford does all those those iTunes U [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► videos and I think they have a couple [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► that are on iOS development and there is [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► that whole section it's very early on [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► where they teach you how to how to [TS]

00:38:26 ◼   ► allocate and deallocate memory and it [TS]

00:38:29 ◼   ► can definitely be for someone that's [TS]

00:38:30 ◼   ► coming me from developing for the web [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► it's very much a huge shift yeah and [TS]

00:38:35 ◼   ► it's so fundamental or used to be so [TS]

00:38:36 ◼   ► fundamental to object to see that they [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► would teach it to you in like lesson two [TS]

00:38:39 ◼   ► and you'd be like boy I want to know how [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► to write an app why you telling me about [TS]

00:38:42 ◼   ► like memory like and especially even for [TS]

00:38:44 ◼   ► older developers who have been in the [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► business long time they're like I gave [TS]

00:38:48 ◼   ► that stuff up you know years ago I was [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► so happy they moved to Java or C sharp [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► or whatever I didn't have to deal with [TS]

00:38:54 ◼   ► that crap and Here I am using the quote [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► unquote world's most advanced operating [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► system which was the slogan for Mac OS [TS]

00:38:58 ◼   ► 10 not iOS but either way I'm using this [TS]

00:39:01 ◼   ► wizzy new thing on my cool iPhone or my [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► Mac and I have to manually manage memory [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► not it's not that it's that hard and you [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► and their advantages of retaining [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► released memory management over garbage [TS]

00:39:12 ◼   ► collection in some particular scenarios [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► which Apple loves to emphasize in terms [TS]

00:39:16 ◼   ► of not having to stall for garbage [TS]

00:39:17 ◼   ► collector to run and stuff like that but [TS]

00:39:19 ◼   ► from a developer's perspective [TS]

00:39:21 ◼   ► especially developer coming from another [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► platform it seems barbaric people don't [TS]

00:39:25 ◼   ► like going backwards you know and web [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► development again JavaScript you learn [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► to deal with this stuff table scripting [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► what types really so this is a weakness [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► that that Apple is basically admitting [TS]

00:39:37 ◼   ► exists in their platform because why [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► else would you it you know introduce [TS]

00:39:41 ◼   ► this initiative to make it so that [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► people don't have to write retain your [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► release code and and not only just [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► making this like an option please go [TS]

00:39:49 ◼   ► ahead garbage collection for Objective C [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► for a while to and I go into in the line [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► review all the reasons why garbage [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► collection was not a good fit for [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► Objective C but it existed but it was [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► never really promoted that heavily Apple [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► didn't make all fits apps garbage [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► collected it wasn't the officially [TS]

00:40:04 ◼   ► recommended practice for new application [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► so on and so forth [TS]

00:40:07 ◼   ► and with ARC it's different with arc [TS]

00:40:09 ◼   ► when you make if you get Lyon and [TS]

00:40:11 ◼   ► install the developer tools and say I [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► want to make a new iOS application or [TS]

00:40:14 ◼   ► new cocoa application it makes it [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► enables arc like it's the default this [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► is the way they want people to write [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► their applications they are committed to [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► it they're going to make it work and [TS]

00:40:23 ◼   ► they want to remove this whole retaining [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► released business from their platform so [TS]

00:40:28 ◼   ► it's easier for developers to adopt says [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► less work you know and they want [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► everyone to use it not just newbies but [TS]

00:40:33 ◼   ► even old guys who know exactly how to do [TS]

00:40:36 ◼   ► retaining release in their sleep you [TS]

00:40:38 ◼   ► know everyone makes mistakes even the [TS]

00:40:40 ◼   ► the old hands at this every once in a [TS]

00:40:42 ◼   ► while it's like they have to run the [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► leak detection thing so I forgot I'm [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► over releasing here or I forgot to [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► release this or I have a you know a [TS]

00:40:49 ◼   ► cycle here now that arc doesn't break [TS]

00:40:51 ◼   ► cycles either reference cycles where a [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► references B&B references a nothing else [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► in the program references them and a and [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► B never go away arc doesn't solve that [TS]

00:40:57 ◼   ► either you have to it gives you some [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► tools to solve but we can use weak [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► references so that you make a we [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► reference B and then B back to a with a [TS]

00:41:04 ◼   ► weak reference so that the weak [TS]

00:41:06 ◼   ► reference doesn't count towards the [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► reference count so that those two things [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► will eventually be the allocated so it [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► gives you tools to do that but you still [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► have to manually create that weak [TS]

00:41:13 ◼   ► reference remember that a already points [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► to B so when you point B back they don't [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► just make a regular reference make it a [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► weak reference it's it's better than [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► nothing but it's still not like garbage [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► collection which can find break cycles [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► and clean up memory that it notice is [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► not reachable from the rest of the [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► program now and again the I swear my [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► copeland 2010 thing it doesn't make [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► objective-c memory safe it doesn't [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► remove pointers it doesn't do any of [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► those things which mostly what I was [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► talking about it wasn't so much that I [TS]

00:41:38 ◼   ► was sending Objective C it's a pain [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► because you have to manually manage [TS]

00:41:40 ◼   ► memory I was saying Objective C is lower [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► level and all the things that go with [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► that the advantages and the [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► disadvantages eventually the [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► disadvantages will start dwarfing the [TS]

00:41:48 ◼   ► advantages I guess we're still not at [TS]

00:41:51 ◼   ► that point because Apple's mobile [TS]

00:41:53 ◼   ► platform and particulate e still is [TS]

00:41:54 ◼   ► doing extremely well in terms of both [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► perceived in actual performance battery [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► life and a lot of that is attributable [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► to its use of low-level language so I [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► don't know when this day reckoning will [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► come and I don't know what Apple's plans [TS]

00:42:08 ◼   ► are the very end of the line arc my of [TS]

00:42:11 ◼   ► my line read where I talk about arc I [TS]

00:42:12 ◼   ► said well but you know let's let's [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► crystal ball this [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► so what does this say about Apple's [TS]

00:42:16 ◼   ► future what are they planning on doing [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► and my tea leaf reading is that all [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► right so this this says that Apple [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► realizes this some sort of problem so [TS]

00:42:24 ◼   ► I'm going to extrapolate from that and [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► say that they realize that they can't [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► stick with objective-c [TS]

00:42:27 ◼   ► forever like this is not not just that [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► Objective C has one or two disadvantages [TS]

00:42:32 ◼   ► but that they realize the full extent to [TS]

00:42:35 ◼   ► which Objective C is behind other [TS]

00:42:37 ◼   ► languages you know they realize the [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► advantages as well which is why they [TS]

00:42:40 ◼   ► didn't go with garbage collection or you [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► know they said that we want to retain [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► our advantages for as long as possible [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► but we want to minimize your [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► disadvantage but eventually we're going [TS]

00:42:47 ◼   ► to have to make that leap so that's my [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► first tea leaf reading is that Apple [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► realizes there there is a better way and [TS]

00:42:53 ◼   ► they want to get to that better way [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► somehow the second thing I'm reading the [TS]

00:42:57 ◼   ► tea leaves here is that the Apple is not [TS]

00:42:59 ◼   ► a believer in virtual machines and [TS]

00:43:03 ◼   ► garbage collection for the sake of [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► saying we have a virtual machine garbage [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► collection so you know dalvik on the [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► Android platform has a virtual machine [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► has garbage collection c-sharp the [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► common language runtime dotnet this [TS]

00:43:14 ◼   ► garbage collection in a virtual machine [TS]

00:43:16 ◼   ► Apple has is not creating a virtual [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► machine as far as I could tell and you [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► know and they don't seem to be big fans [TS]

00:43:23 ◼   ► of garbage collection as in runtime [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► garbage collection but there's some [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► other process while your program is [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► running that finds that memory that's [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► not for referenced anymore and gathers [TS]

00:43:30 ◼   ► it up into the allocates it and so I [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► extrapolate from all that and say the [TS]

00:43:36 ◼   ► next thing Apple will probably do or own [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► the next thing but where Apple is [TS]

00:43:40 ◼   ► probably going is a memory safe compiled [TS]

00:43:44 ◼   ► language that deals with it that is kind [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► of like the parts of objective-c that [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► cocoa programmers use so in Objective C [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► program you could do anything you can do [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► in a C program you could you know start [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► filling with pointers you could have [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► native C arrays and stuff like that but [TS]

00:44:01 ◼   ► what Apple wants you to do with the API [TS]

00:44:03 ◼   ► is you know don't use C arrays yes C has [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► support for a raise you can use little [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► angle brackets to do pointer arithmetic [TS]

00:44:07 ◼   ► for you it looks like you're accessing [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► an element but it's just math isn't that [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► wonderful all right they say no use NS [TS]

00:44:13 ◼   ► array or NS mutable array that's our [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► collection class right and same thing [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► with strings yes you can do a pointer to [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► a character and have it be a string and [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► use an alternation don't do that using a [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► string we have a class for that right [TS]

00:44:25 ◼   ► most of the things that you can do in [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► Objective C program [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► doesn't want you to do when you're [TS]

00:44:29 ◼   ► writing your GUI app they say call our [TS]

00:44:31 ◼   ► cocoa API is use our collection classes [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► use our syntax don't you see now you can [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► imagine a language that is to to borrow [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► a phrase from another thing a link in [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► the show notes Objective C without the C [TS]

00:44:43 ◼   ► where you've got the Objective C api's [TS]

00:44:46 ◼   ► but you don't have the ability to drop [TS]

00:44:49 ◼   ► all the way down and to see and then you [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► can make the Objective C API is memory [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► safe where if you're just dealing with [TS]

00:44:55 ◼   ► objects and you're just calling methods [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► and just using the native collection [TS]

00:44:57 ◼   ► classes there's no reason to ever to [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► have a role pointer to memory or to ever [TS]

00:45:02 ◼   ► dereference one or anything like that no [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► yes uh you know Objective C objects are [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► technically pointers one of the covers [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► is on and so forth but I can imagine [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► Apple moving in steps like further [TS]

00:45:10 ◼   ► ratcheting down the clamps on Objective [TS]

00:45:13 ◼   ► C because even an arc you can't do [TS]

00:45:14 ◼   ► certain things an arc you can't have [TS]

00:45:16 ◼   ► like Africa but the limitations are [TS]

00:45:18 ◼   ► there's a bunch of limitations well you [TS]

00:45:19 ◼   ► can't take a you know an NS object or [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► something a pointer to an object and [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► shove it inside a C struct because I [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► can't keep track of it anymore other [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► restrictions on what you can and can't [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► do that you could technically do in a C [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► program but when arc is enabled they say [TS]

00:45:31 ◼   ► actually we're going to disallow that [TS]

00:45:32 ◼   ► because we can't make arc work if you [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► can do that we lose track of your stuff [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► so that's not allowed so they're they're [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► adding restrictions to the language to [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► enable more advanced features and I can [TS]

00:45:41 ◼   ► imagine them adding more and more [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► restrictions until on a per file basis [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► even in like a per lexical scope basis [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► saying in this part of the code here all [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► you can do is call Objective C api's you [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► can't do any of that straight C stuff [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► and in this M in exchange for that or [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► those restrictions you have memory [TS]

00:45:58 ◼   ► safety and maybe you even have a [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► different syntax and maybe they even [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► give it a name that's a different [TS]

00:46:02 ◼   ► language right it's some point I think [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► they're come out and say apples new [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► language is blah and what it really is [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► is a way to call cocoa api's in it with [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► language that's memory safe now every [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► time I bring this up everyone says Ruby [TS]

00:46:15 ◼   ► cocoa or not Ruby cocoa but Mac Ruby and [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► the various other bridge type things Mac [TS]

00:46:19 ◼   ► Ruby being that the most popular because [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► Mac Ruby Bridges from Ruby collection [TS]

00:46:24 ◼   ► classes to cocoa glasses where you can [TS]

00:46:26 ◼   ► program in Ruby which is memory safe [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► right and when you access a Ruby array [TS]

00:46:30 ◼   ► it uses NS arrays under the covers and [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► then Ruby strings or any strings under [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► the covers and stuff like that I've said [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► in many shows that I am down on bridge [TS]

00:46:37 ◼   ► languages I don't think that's the way [TS]

00:46:39 ◼   ► Apple will go even though it's a pretty [TS]

00:46:41 ◼   ► good bridge and even though they are [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► bridging the collection classes and [TS]

00:46:43 ◼   ► stuff - under the covers be at Ruby [TS]

00:46:45 ◼   ► objects or objective-c objects and other [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► covers I think they're more likely to [TS]

00:46:50 ◼   ► carve out a little language out of the [TS]

00:46:53 ◼   ► middle out of the heart of objective-c [TS]

00:46:55 ◼   ► and say this is our new language whether [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► they give it a new name whether they [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► give it a new syntax you know whether [TS]

00:47:00 ◼   ► it's a file scope thing or a lexical [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► scope thing or a whole program thing I [TS]

00:47:03 ◼   ► don't know but I think that's the [TS]

00:47:05 ◼   ► direction they're going but in small [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► little steps is what you're saying and [TS]

00:47:08 ◼   ► so it's not that yeah because I can't do [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► a a big a big shift and John is there I [TS]

00:47:14 ◼   ► mean do you think there's even a the [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► demand for this for this you know [TS]

00:47:20 ◼   ► obviously Ark is probably going to be [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► welcomed by a lot of developers [TS]

00:47:23 ◼   ► especially those that are new to to [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► working in cocoa framework but do you [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► think there's even a demand for this [TS]

00:47:29 ◼   ► type of change or or is this I guess I'm [TS]

00:47:33 ◼   ► asking because I wonder if if the the [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► low-level nosov of working with [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► objective-c and cocoa is is that keeping [TS]

00:47:42 ◼   ► people from from developing on the [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► platform I mean there's thousands of [TS]

00:47:44 ◼   ► developers putting stuff in the in the [TS]

00:47:46 ◼   ► App Store's yeah one of this is a quote [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► from the arc section of my review and it [TS]

00:47:53 ◼   ► has a link to a great talk by Ed Catmull [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► Pixar which I have promoted on this show [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► many times and have told people seems [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► incredibly boring and is really long but [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► you should just watch it and listen to [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► the whole thing it's very enlightening [TS]

00:48:04 ◼   ► and the quote is this is quote from my [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► review success hides problems and Apple [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► has been so very successful in recent [TS]

00:48:12 ◼   ► years that is success hides problems as [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► a direct quote from that Ed Catmull talk [TS]

00:48:15 ◼   ► and it's totally true [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► Apple has been enormous ly successful [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► with its mobile platform with iOS but [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► success hides problems it doesn't say [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► well it doesn't prove that they have no [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► problems because they've been successful [TS]

00:48:26 ◼   ► sort of I figure which fallacy that it's [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► not appeal to Authority but it's one of [TS]

00:48:29 ◼   ► those ones their success hides their [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► problems people are coming to iOS and [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► dealing with retaining release not [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► because they think retaining release are [TS]

00:48:38 ◼   ► awesome but because that's where the [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► money is that's where the success is [TS]

00:48:41 ◼   ► that's you know they've sold a lot of [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► devices you know and yes there are [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► people who love cocoa love the next [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► api's and were writing next apps when [TS]

00:48:50 ◼   ► there was like three users in the entire [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► universe and they still loved it and [TS]

00:48:53 ◼   ► still said it was the best and maybe [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► you'll never be able to convince those [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► people [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► that that that arc is good there the [TS]

00:48:58 ◼   ► synthesized attributes ooh good yeah it [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► was always the old developer to say I've [TS]

00:49:01 ◼   ► been doing this way for decades and I [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► think this way is better and all this [TS]

00:49:04 ◼   ► newfangled stuff is crap if you can't [TS]

00:49:06 ◼   ► convince them you know what can you do [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► it's Apple has always been focused on [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► the future and they continue to be [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► they're focused on the new developer [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► who's maybe never developed anything [TS]

00:49:14 ◼   ► before and they are confused by [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► retaining release or maybe they're [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► coming from another mobile platform [TS]

00:49:18 ◼   ► another desktop platform and they are [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► disgusted by retaining release and the [TS]

00:49:21 ◼   ► old next guys say oh you don't know what [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► you're talking about go back to your [TS]

00:49:24 ◼   ► crappy platform our API so awesome you [TS]

00:49:26 ◼   ► should you know you should just like it [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► right and look how successful we are [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► obviously what we're doing is better [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► because we've been some you know you [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► have to focus on the future [TS]

00:49:34 ◼   ► so whether there's a demand or not Apple [TS]

00:49:37 ◼   ► Apple has to move forward and the path [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► forward is pretty clear in the manual [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► memory management I hope for my [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► grandchildren it's not something they [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► have to deal with in the same way that [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► you know the people who are programmed [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► computers with toggle switches or punch [TS]

00:49:51 ◼   ► cards that boy I hope my kids don't have [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► to use punch cards and we don't we get [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► to type into you know a text editor and [TS]

00:49:57 ◼   ► we got a compiler you know we don't have [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► to you don't have to deal with that [TS]

00:50:00 ◼   ► stuff but even the people are writing [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► assembler I hope we're saying boy I hope [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► people don't have to write thousands and [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► thousands and thousands and thousands of [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► lines of assembler to write an operating [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► system or GUI application or anything [TS]

00:50:09 ◼   ► like that in the future and we don't we [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► have higher-level languages it only gets [TS]

00:50:13 ◼   ► higher level right and it's going to [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► happen and it's really really difficult [TS]

00:50:17 ◼   ► to transition that's the most dangerous [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► time for a company that's that's the [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► that's why Apple I think is doing this [TS]

00:50:21 ◼   ► slowly in steps because you have to have [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► such an investment in in cocoa and those [TS]

00:50:28 ◼   ► API is that were derived from next in [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► the compiled they wrote their own [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► compiler right and that's what they're [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► building arc on top of well they adopted [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► LVM and then made it into their own [TS]

00:50:36 ◼   ► compiler right they have such a huge [TS]

00:50:38 ◼   ► investment you can just throw that away [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► and say okay well actually now the new [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► we have a new API and a new language and [TS]

00:50:44 ◼   ► here's this new thing that's so so hard [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► to do which is why I was freaking out [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► about it in 2005 because I know how hard [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► it is to do and if you're gonna do it [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► you got to go on like the ten year plan [TS]

00:50:52 ◼   ► you can't be on like the the six month [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► plan where you're going to turn it [TS]

00:50:56 ◼   ► around so I think arc is just the most [TS]

00:50:58 ◼   ► recent step in what I hope what I [TS]

00:51:00 ◼   ► sincerely hope is like some two three [TS]

00:51:02 ◼   ► four five ten year plan inside Apple to [TS]

00:51:05 ◼   ► get from where they are now to where [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► they want to be with the minimum [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► disruption to their [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► platform to the developers who got them [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► here to the old next guys or to the [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► people came over from classic American [TS]

00:51:15 ◼   ► West those are the people that sort of [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► got Apple to where they are apples [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► looking to the future but doesn't to [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► piss those guys off either so it has to [TS]

00:51:21 ◼   ► do it in a series of steps and a certain [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► point there'll be a discontinuity [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► whether that's a marketing discontinuity [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► whether they just simply say we have a [TS]

00:51:27 ◼   ► new name [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► for the restricted subset of Jeff you [TS]

00:51:30 ◼   ► see that we want you to write cocoa [TS]

00:51:32 ◼   ► things and by the way with a new name we [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► introduce a new syntax is mostly window [TS]

00:51:35 ◼   ► dressing you know it's the semantics of [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► the language make a difference but at a [TS]

00:51:38 ◼   ► certain point they could introduce a new [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► syntax because they've changed the [TS]

00:51:41 ◼   ► semantics so much that you don't need to [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► ever use pointer stuff so the fact that [TS]

00:51:44 ◼   ► you have little stars in front of all [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► your object quote-unquote object [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► declarations is making reminding you [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► that there are pointers to you know [TS]

00:51:51 ◼   ► there see pointers and new developers [TS]

00:51:53 ◼   ► using one of these stars all here for [TS]

00:51:54 ◼   ► biz they never even heard of C like [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► that's the point where you might think [TS]

00:51:56 ◼   ► about changing the syntax because it's [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► just noise that's not relevant to [TS]

00:52:01 ◼   ► current development let's go ahead and [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► take another break and talk about our [TS]

00:52:04 ◼   ► second sponsor for this episode of [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► hypercritical and that is Rackspace now [TS]

00:52:11 ◼   ► Rackspace has been sponsoring [TS]

00:52:12 ◼   ► five-by-five now for almost a year and [TS]

00:52:15 ◼   ► I'm hearing from more and more people [TS]

00:52:16 ◼   ► about how simple Rackspace cloud is to [TS]