33: Square Bracket Colon Smiley


00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:01   this is hypercritical this is a weekly [TS]

00:00:04   talkshow ruminating on exactly what is [TS]

00:00:06   wrong in the will of Apple and related [TS]

00:00:07   technologies and businesses as we say [TS]

00:00:10   here nothing is so perfect it cannot be [TS]

00:00:11   complained about by Michael and perhaps [TS]

00:00:14   improved upon by my co-host John [TS]

00:00:17   siracusa nosey I'm Dan benjamin this is [TS]

00:00:20   episode number 33 I'd like to say thanks [TS]

00:00:25   to easy DNS calm and mailchimp.com for [TS]

00:00:28   making this show possible and of course [TS]

00:00:30   as always bandwidth for this episode has [TS]

00:00:32   been provided by Midas green [TS]

00:00:34   technologies Virtual Private servers [TS]

00:00:36   submerged in oil go to mine screen tech [TS]

00:00:40   comm / 5x5 find out how to get some free [TS]

00:00:42   bandwidth here we are John its September [TS]

00:00:46   of 2011 we have you're saying you don't [TS]

00:00:51   know what we're going to talk about yeah [TS]

00:00:53   that's gonna Ellis the stuff there's a [TS]

00:00:56   bunch of links and already in the show [TS]

00:00:57   thing I didn't put all of them there so [TS]

00:00:59   you must have put some there may be [TS]

00:01:00   faith they all I did all I do is think [TS]

00:01:02   about this show day and night yeah uh I [TS]

00:01:05   guess I have a little bit of follow up [TS]

00:01:07   and then we can pick what we want to [TS]

00:01:08   talk about what handed sure so this is [TS]

00:01:12   kind of a repeat of last week's [TS]

00:01:14   follow-up work talked about the 27-inch [TS]

00:01:16   display that I said with a thirty inch [TS]

00:01:18   display and I talked about how the URL [TS]

00:01:19   said slash displays but this is the only [TS]

00:01:21   one they sell right I was quickly [TS]

00:01:23   corrected this is not the only one they [TS]

00:01:24   sell they still sell the old 27-inch [TS]

00:01:27   that doesn't have Thunderbolt really I'm [TS]

00:01:30   assuming I'm assuming they do that [TS]

00:01:31   because there are some Mac's that don't [TS]

00:01:32   know thunderbolt ports and you I think [TS]

00:01:34   you can't use the new one where the mac [TS]

00:01:37   leo is not with under bolt port that was [TS]

00:01:38   the theory proposed to me I don't know [TS]

00:01:39   if it's true so you're saying you could [TS]

00:01:41   go out there today and buy there are two [TS]

00:01:43   models of the 27-inch but there are no [TS]

00:01:46   there is no 24 there is no 30 [TS]

00:01:48   they're just 27-inch variants and one of [TS]

00:01:51   them has the you know the Ethernet in [TS]

00:01:52   the fire reports and stuff in the back [TS]

00:01:54   on the other one and a thunderbolt [TS]

00:01:56   connector on the other one just has mini [TS]

00:01:58   DisplayPort which even though it's the [TS]

00:01:59   same shape connector is actually sort of [TS]

00:02:01   a different thing mm-hmm [TS]

00:02:03   so that was the only legitimate piece of [TS]

00:02:06   I'll whop and then I have a bunch of [TS]

00:02:08   miscellaneous stuff oh I guess one more [TS]

00:02:11   thing the Mac Ruby people are still [TS]

00:02:13   I shouldn't call the macaron people [TS]

00:02:15   they're not my crew be people there [TS]

00:02:16   people who doesn't know no they're not [TS]

00:02:21   and I like involved in the development [TS]

00:02:22   of Mac Ruby I don't even open am use Mac [TS]

00:02:24   groupies but see I continue to [TS]

00:02:26   insistence that it's bridgie like a [TS]

00:02:28   bridge is come under fire some people [TS]

00:02:32   saying of it according to my definition [TS]

00:02:33   of bridge that would make objective-c a [TS]

00:02:35   bridge or a C+ Objective C sports sauce [TS]

00:02:38   a bridge I don't want to go through all [TS]

00:02:40   this again I just find this topic to go [TS]

00:02:43   away I asked the people who talked to me [TS]

00:02:46   about on Twitter like so do you think [TS]

00:02:48   Mac Ruby should be the next language or [TS]

00:02:50   that it will be and no one has really [TS]

00:02:52   said that they think it will be and as [TS]

00:02:56   for should I don't think I got any [TS]

00:02:58   committers on that either so I'm not [TS]

00:03:00   quite sure what their objection is if [TS]

00:03:02   they're they don't think that is any [TS]

00:03:04   indication that it will be the next [TS]

00:03:05   language and none of them are willing to [TS]

00:03:07   say oh yes hundred percent it definitely [TS]

00:03:08   should be the next language I guess they [TS]

00:03:11   just don't like me calling it a bridge [TS]

00:03:12   so maybe I'll pick a different word for [TS]

00:03:14   it I don't know but we'll see you know [TS]

00:03:17   this could all come around the WWC 2012 [TS]

00:03:20   and they announced oh that's the new [TS]

00:03:21   language I'm sure we'll have a whole big [TS]

00:03:23   show but that'd be great if they did [TS]

00:03:25   that I don't know it would be something [TS]

00:03:27   be different yeah um so what else do we [TS]

00:03:32   have in the follow up in I just have a [TS]

00:03:35   bunch of small things that aren't [TS]

00:03:36   technically follow up that are just many [TS]

00:03:38   topics so let's go right to figure out [TS]

00:03:42   what we're going to talk about today I [TS]

00:03:43   mentioned last week that we could talk [TS]

00:03:44   about what ails Microsoft and then of [TS]

00:03:48   course there's markdown lurking there so [TS]

00:03:50   which one of those interests you is I [TS]

00:03:52   mean I I could continue to put off the [TS]

00:03:54   markdown one as long as you would like [TS]

00:03:56   but uh people seem to be interested in [TS]

00:03:58   that they seem to like that's the one [TS]

00:04:00   people crave yeah that's that's the [TS]

00:04:02   problem with like putting it off it when [TS]

00:04:04   I put off a topic it's because I don't [TS]

00:04:06   think it's that interesting it's not [TS]

00:04:07   because I'm withholding information to [TS]

00:04:09   try to make people want any more if it [TS]

00:04:12   was really exciting interesting and [TS]

00:04:14   needed to be talked about I would talk [TS]

00:04:15   about it it gets pushed off because I [TS]

00:04:16   think it's boring and not that great but [TS]

00:04:19   we'll do it just to get out of the way [TS]

00:04:21   about that I think it sounds good [TS]

00:04:23   all right so for the people who don't [TS]

00:04:27   know what mark [TS]

00:04:27   down is it is a format for writing text [TS]

00:04:33   a formalized form of writing text that [TS]

00:04:36   gives you something in the end so this [TS]

00:04:38   is created by our friend John Gruber who [TS]

00:04:40   does talk show you can go to his website [TS]

00:04:42   during fireball than that slash markdown [TS]

00:04:44   I believe will redirect you to slash [TS]

00:04:46   project slash markdown or something but [TS]

00:04:47   anyway you'll find it and here's the [TS]

00:04:51   I've have a couple of snippets quoting [TS]

00:04:53   from his markdown pages rather than me [TS]

00:04:55   trying to explain it what I think the [TS]

00:04:57   intention of was he just comes right on [TS]

00:04:58   says here's what the intention was [TS]

00:04:59   marked down so this is a quote markdown [TS]

00:05:02   allows you to write using an easy to [TS]

00:05:03   read easy to write plain text format [TS]

00:05:04   then converted to structurally valid [TS]

00:05:06   XHTML or HTML you can tell how long ago [TS]

00:05:08   that was written by the fact that he [TS]

00:05:09   says XHTML which don't really write [TS]

00:05:12   talks about before hht no no it was [TS]

00:05:15   XHTML first and then parenthesis or HTML [TS]

00:05:17   hmm I would think he would need some [TS]

00:05:19   subscribe place and edit yeah guilty [TS]

00:05:22   html5 no space so so that's the idea and [TS]

00:05:28   that if you look at what markdown looks [TS]

00:05:31   like I'll give you some example so it's [TS]

00:05:33   like if you write a word with little [TS]

00:05:35   asterisks around it you know shift date [TS]

00:05:37   that word will become bold and if you [TS]

00:05:39   put underscores before and after the [TS]

00:05:41   word it will become might Alec it's kind [TS]

00:05:42   of the way people write in emails when [TS]

00:05:44   they didn't have style text back in the [TS]

00:05:46   plain text email day so if you wanted to [TS]

00:05:47   emphasize the word you put the little [TS]

00:05:48   stars around it well markdown formalizes [TS]

00:05:51   that and says if you write that and you [TS]

00:05:52   run it through a markdown processor when [TS]

00:05:54   we see those little stars we replace [TS]

00:05:56   them with little bee tags around your [TS]

00:05:58   thing on same thing with I tags and so [TS]

00:06:00   on and so forth then of course like it [TS]

00:06:03   does paragraphs for you so you just type [TS]

00:06:05   the return key twice to break up [TS]

00:06:07   paragraphs as you naturally would in a [TS]

00:06:08   plain text type of email and then the [TS]

00:06:10   markdown goes through it it puts the [TS]

00:06:12   little P tags around everything the same [TS]

00:06:13   thing with header is this little ASCII [TS]

00:06:15   formats for all this stuff so that it [TS]

00:06:16   will convert it to HTML [TS]

00:06:18   here's another quote from the thing so [TS]

00:06:20   what's what's the point of this why why [TS]

00:06:21   does this thing exist the overriding [TS]

00:06:24   design goal for markdowns formatting [TS]

00:06:25   syntax is to make it as readable as [TS]

00:06:27   possible the idea is that mark 10 [TS]

00:06:28   formatted document should be publishable [TS]

00:06:30   as is as plain text without looking like [TS]

00:06:32   it's been marked up with tags or [TS]

00:06:33   formatting instructions so that's very [TS]

00:06:35   different than a lot of other markup [TS]

00:06:37   languages like HTML or anything else the [TS]

00:06:39   idea is that like a plain [TS]

00:06:41   email or Usenet post from way back when [TS]

00:06:43   you should be able to take something you [TS]

00:06:45   wrote in markdown just and just send to [TS]

00:06:47   someone having read it and not have them [TS]

00:06:48   say oh my god what the heck is this am I [TS]

00:06:50   looking at you know raw binary format or [TS]

00:06:52   is busy view sent someone in HTML [TS]

00:06:54   document marked up with HTML it's just [TS]

00:06:56   it's only as to their eyes they wouldn't [TS]

00:06:57   expect to read it but if you send your [TS]

00:06:59   mom something written in markdown maybe [TS]

00:07:01   she wouldn't know what the little stars [TS]

00:07:02   mean but like eventually you pick up [TS]

00:07:03   that stuff kind of culturally and you [TS]

00:07:05   can understand the text and things like [TS]

00:07:09   the paragraphs is the big point because [TS]

00:07:10   everybody has paragraphs you hopefully [TS]

00:07:12   everybody writes paragraphs you write [TS]

00:07:14   something you had returned twice then [TS]

00:07:15   you write something else it returned [TS]

00:07:16   twice and it breaks up your message into [TS]

00:07:18   a series of paragraphs those aren't [TS]

00:07:20   marked up and so it's very difficult to [TS]

00:07:24   come up with a markup language like HTML [TS]

00:07:26   or anything like that it doesn't at the [TS]

00:07:27   very least like even if you use no style [TS]

00:07:29   text no bold no italics just plain text [TS]

00:07:31   you'd still need the little P tags and [TS]

00:07:33   that's ugly and confusing people won't [TS]

00:07:34   go to meet so that's the goal of mark [TS]

00:07:37   then it should look like it should be [TS]

00:07:40   usable exactly the way it is it [TS]

00:07:42   shouldn't just be this like internal [TS]

00:07:43   compiled format then all your machine is [TS]

00:07:45   ever meant to read it's human readable [TS]

00:07:47   alright um [TS]

00:07:49   and at the very end is the little [TS]

00:07:52   snippet that from that page I want to [TS]

00:07:53   point out what he says markdown is two [TS]

00:07:56   things [TS]

00:07:56   one applying text formatting syntax and [TS]

00:07:59   two the software tool written Perl that [TS]

00:08:01   converts plain text formatting to HTML [TS]

00:08:03   so he's defined this format and then [TS]

00:08:06   he's provided this tool that if you take [TS]

00:08:07   text in this format in feeted to this [TS]

00:08:09   tool also called markdown or whatever it [TS]

00:08:11   will spit out HTML or XHTML at your at [TS]

00:08:13   your preference so as you can imagine [TS]

00:08:16   there's lots of people use this for [TS]

00:08:18   various things [TS]

00:08:19   Gruber uses it to write his blog post [TS]

00:08:21   you know your rights he writes it he [TS]

00:08:23   writes in a markdown and then it gets [TS]

00:08:24   converted into HTML that appears on his [TS]

00:08:26   web page right and lots of other people [TS]

00:08:29   use of the same thing like forum posts [TS]

00:08:30   or you know any place where Stack [TS]

00:08:33   Overflow is another example or any of [TS]

00:08:34   those sites those Q&A sites where when [TS]

00:08:37   you write your question or your answer [TS]

00:08:38   you write it in markdown format instead [TS]

00:08:40   of writing in HTML or whatever um all [TS]

00:08:44   right so lots of people like markdown [TS]

00:08:47   lots of people use it it's either we [TS]

00:08:49   shouldn't as there are alternatives to [TS]

00:08:51   this or there other things people using [TS]

00:08:54   people [TS]

00:08:55   or when saying was going to talk about [TS]

00:08:56   mark then many people were sending me [TS]

00:08:58   suggestions you should also compare it [TS]

00:08:59   to X or take a look at Y and see how [TS]

00:09:01   it's different to Q and Z there have [TS]

00:09:04   been tons of these formats so one of the [TS]

00:09:05   ones that comes to mind that I know [TS]

00:09:08   about I'll talk about later but textile [TS]

00:09:10   is one of the ones that was mentioned to [TS]

00:09:11   me there's a couple of markdown variants [TS]

00:09:13   like multi markdown or lots of [TS]

00:09:15   alliterations mega markdown bla bla bla [TS]

00:09:17   like where they take markdown add one or [TS]

00:09:19   two things they think shouldn't be there [TS]

00:09:20   or whatever a lot of people like it and [TS]

00:09:23   a lot of people like to have that [TS]

00:09:25   feature so if you're writing anything [TS]

00:09:27   that accepts user input this is an [TS]

00:09:28   internal problem like back way back in [TS]

00:09:30   the day when you're writing web [TS]

00:09:31   applications and evitable you would put [TS]

00:09:33   a box in front of user and say and then [TS]

00:09:34   they're going to type their stuff here [TS]

00:09:35   and people want to type more interesting [TS]

00:09:40   things than just that unit even though [TS]

00:09:42   just reflecting text your first problem [TS]

00:09:43   was I'm going to put a box here and [TS]

00:09:44   people are going to type stuff and then [TS]

00:09:45   they're going to hit a button and then [TS]

00:09:46   what the type is going to appear on my [TS]

00:09:47   website like that was the beginning of I [TS]

00:09:49   guess web 1.0 and even if you just do [TS]

00:09:52   that you can't just take what they type [TS]

00:09:55   literally like the character sent by the [TS]

00:09:58   browser and show that on a web page [TS]

00:09:59   because it'll all run together because [TS]

00:10:01   white spaces doesn't have the same [TS]

00:10:02   significance in HTML does inside that [TS]

00:10:04   text field when you're typing all right [TS]

00:10:06   exactly very least you have to wrap it [TS]

00:10:09   in P tags which isn't rocket science but [TS]

00:10:10   can be done and then if you are a good [TS]

00:10:14   little web 1.0 programmer you would [TS]

00:10:15   remember oh yeah and I got to escape all [TS]

00:10:17   of the characters that are meaningful to [TS]

00:10:18   HTML so they show up literally so [TS]

00:10:20   someone writes one less than two doesn't [TS]

00:10:22   think it's the beginning of a to tag and [TS]

00:10:24   script the rest of the thing and [TS]

00:10:27   inevitably people wanted to do because [TS]

00:10:29   at this point web 1.0 world people had [TS]

00:10:31   already been on Usenet and stuff like [TS]

00:10:33   that for a long period of time and these [TS]

00:10:34   conventions about bold italic and stuff [TS]

00:10:36   like that had been around for a long [TS]

00:10:37   time we're not the fact that it was bold [TS]

00:10:38   but people wanted to write you know I [TS]

00:10:40   really like this and really has little [TS]

00:10:42   asterisks on either side of it to [TS]

00:10:43   emphasize the real right and same thing [TS]

00:10:46   with the underscores they were less [TS]

00:10:47   common but those things existed so [TS]

00:10:49   people would write that in little text [TS]

00:10:50   boxes and then it would appear on the [TS]

00:10:51   website and I say you know what this is [TS]

00:10:53   HTML it's not using that it's not ASCII [TS]

00:10:55   why why can't that appear as a proper [TS]

00:10:58   bold tag so eventually the savvy users [TS]

00:11:01   learn the bold tag is this and they [TS]

00:11:03   would write you know less than B greater [TS]

00:11:04   than and then really in less than slash [TS]

00:11:06   you know B greater than [TS]

00:11:08   and they would submit it and it would [TS]

00:11:09   show up on a type a site with a tag [TS]

00:11:11   strong because the good one web 1.0 [TS]

00:11:14   program had escaped this stuff and there [TS]

00:11:16   was I was not what I wanted I wanted to [TS]

00:11:17   be bold I didn't want to see the little [TS]

00:11:18   B tags like I did mean obviously when I [TS]

00:11:20   was typing in the text field I saw the [TS]

00:11:22   little tags won't appeared on the [TS]

00:11:23   website I wanted to pee at her as proper [TS]

00:11:24   styled text and the web 1.0 programmer [TS]

00:11:28   if he was a little bit naive but say [TS]

00:11:30   okay sure I'll let you do that I'll stop [TS]

00:11:32   that escaping thing I'll say okay [TS]

00:11:33   everybody you have to write HTML in this [TS]

00:11:35   field or maybe a checkbox it says if [TS]

00:11:36   you're an expert check this and you can [TS]

00:11:37   write HTML and I just opened a gigantic [TS]

00:11:40   can of worms because first of all people [TS]

00:11:42   know that checkbox does if they don't [TS]

00:11:43   know HTML so they would check it or not [TS]

00:11:46   check it or be confused about it and [TS]

00:11:47   then they would write a less than sign [TS]

00:11:48   or I you know something they wanted to [TS]

00:11:51   be a little less than sign and it would [TS]

00:11:52   screw up their whole post and it would [TS]

00:11:53   disappear especially back when browsers [TS]

00:11:54   were bad about recovering from errors [TS]

00:11:56   writing in HTML you could make the rest [TS]

00:11:59   of your thing disappear right and then [TS]

00:12:01   you have like big scary one warning [TS]

00:12:02   experts only only do this experts [TS]

00:12:04   experts and then you know that lasts [TS]

00:12:05   about two weeks until expert figures out [TS]

00:12:07   you can write like JavaScript : and [TS]

00:12:10   you're in your image sources and run [TS]

00:12:11   arbitrary text on people's browsers and [TS]

00:12:13   I have only secured the exploits and [TS]

00:12:15   you're making the rest of the page blink [TS]

00:12:16   and become a marquee here wherever the [TS]

00:12:18   hell you know right and people start [TS]

00:12:20   griefing the system so then the poor web [TS]

00:12:22   pointer for says 1.0 permits is okay [TS]

00:12:24   you're only allowed to use these tags [TS]

00:12:26   I'm going to filter it out so you only [TS]

00:12:27   use these tags but then the people who [TS]

00:12:28   find the holes in the guys filtering [TS]

00:12:30   syntax is using regular expressions to [TS]

00:12:31   try to find anything looks like the [TS]

00:12:33   beginning of a tag but this guy cleverly [TS]

00:12:34   hid it with a Unicode entity or whatever [TS]

00:12:37   it's just in the mess all right forget [TS]

00:12:39   it [TS]

00:12:39   hTML is out I can't handle it every time [TS]

00:12:41   I try to get rid of the HTML and only [TS]

00:12:42   allow B&I tags that people find new ways [TS]

00:12:44   to sneak in malware and the spam bots [TS]

00:12:46   are attacking me know HTML not that's it [TS]

00:12:48   not allowing I'm only going to allow my [TS]

00:12:50   own cool special languages if you want [TS]

00:12:52   to do bold stuff put stars around it if [TS]

00:12:54   you want to do under Stalin underscores [TS]

00:12:56   and I'll just look for the stars and [TS]

00:12:57   replace them with eye tag so the only [TS]

00:12:59   tags it will be in there are the ones [TS]

00:13:00   that I put there and I'm only going to [TS]

00:13:01   put in I tags I'm going to put a bee [TS]

00:13:02   tags and P tags with no attributes end [TS]

00:13:05   of story and you do that and then [TS]

00:13:07   someone says well I also want to make [TS]

00:13:08   links ok well here's a new syntax for [TS]

00:13:10   you to make links put this thing here [TS]

00:13:12   and put that over there and you can make [TS]

00:13:13   a link and so on and so forth [TS]

00:13:14   and you end up inventing your own little [TS]

00:13:16   language and one of the earliest one of [TS]

00:13:18   those is BB code I don't even know what [TS]

00:13:20   the BB is is Bolton board but [TS]

00:13:22   yeah one that for for doing like the PHP [TS]

00:13:25   BB stuff [TS]

00:13:27   I don't think PHP BB was the first [TS]

00:13:28   there's a whole series of bulletin board [TS]

00:13:30   software like forums where you know you [TS]

00:13:31   would put a post and someone else put [TS]

00:13:32   suppose someone so forth and appears on [TS]

00:13:34   a page and they didn't want you to write [TS]

00:13:36   any HTML for these same reasons that we [TS]

00:13:38   have our own syntax which has grown to [TS]

00:13:40   this gigantic monster so you know HTML [TS]

00:13:41   uses less than a greater than but we [TS]

00:13:43   used left square bracket and right [TS]

00:13:44   square bracket it's totally different [TS]

00:13:46   and when you want to do a link in BB [TS]

00:13:48   code its left square bracket you know [TS]

00:13:49   URL equals your URL right square bracket [TS]

00:13:52   blah blah I is less square bracket I [TS]

00:13:54   write square bracket and you know do the [TS]

00:13:56   same thing with the ending tag left [TS]

00:13:58   square bracket slash I right square [TS]

00:13:59   bracket to do with italic it's so they [TS]

00:14:02   made their own language there was [TS]

00:14:04   basically HTML but ugly or poorly [TS]

00:14:06   specified but had square brackets was [TS]

00:14:08   totally different so it was safe in that [TS]

00:14:10   you could you know you weren't letting [TS]

00:14:11   people write HTML but you still have to [TS]

00:14:12   go through and find all the square [TS]

00:14:13   brackets and replace them with the HTML [TS]

00:14:15   and so on and so forth idea the idea was [TS]

00:14:17   that that would somehow safer than doing [TS]

00:14:21   HTML and just whitelisting the tags that [TS]

00:14:23   you were allowed to do because I don't [TS]

00:14:25   know why they thought it was better like [TS]

00:14:26   in practice it generally was because [TS]

00:14:28   they would they knew what they were [TS]

00:14:30   inserting they were all if you were [TS]

00:14:32   careful when you only inserted eye tags [TS]

00:14:34   B tags and P tags and you never inserted [TS]

00:14:36   any text inside those tags that was [TS]

00:14:38   provided by the user you could be [TS]

00:14:39   relatively sure that they weren't [TS]

00:14:40   sticking anything weird interior HTML [TS]

00:14:42   tags and you could just totally disallow [TS]

00:14:45   you know and escape but less than signs [TS]

00:14:47   and stuff like that so that probably [TS]

00:14:50   seems safer to them but what inevitably [TS]

00:14:51   happens is the language grows they say [TS]

00:14:53   okay if they write a URL tag I'm going [TS]

00:14:56   to let them do name value pairs as [TS]

00:14:58   attributes and I'm just going to stick [TS]

00:14:59   those attributes into my a href tag and [TS]

00:15:01   then once you allow tainted user input [TS]

00:15:04   into your HTML that you're producing on [TS]

00:15:06   the page you're back at the same [TS]

00:15:07   situation again so it's not an [TS]

00:15:08   inherently saver strategy is just the [TS]

00:15:10   way they started implementing it was [TS]

00:15:12   initially safer and make still be so BB [TS]

00:15:14   code is very popular lots of variants in [TS]

00:15:16   that this square bracket colon smiley [TS]

00:15:19   whatever like you can do tons of little [TS]

00:15:20   weird [TS]

00:15:21   animated gif characters like the [TS]

00:15:24   language expanded is probably bigger [TS]

00:15:25   than HTML at this point with the number [TS]

00:15:27   of weird formatting things you can do [TS]

00:15:30   markdown was kind of like a reaction to [TS]

00:15:32   that where if you're going to pick some [TS]

00:15:33   format you know it [TS]

00:15:34   Gruber I would imagine didn't want to [TS]

00:15:36   write in HTML obviously I would have [TS]

00:15:37   just done that but you know the existing [TS]

00:15:40   ones just seemed like too much I could [TS]

00:15:43   be read a Coast opposed in bbcode it can [TS]

00:15:46   look like it's marked up like it looks [TS]

00:15:49   like a cube of square practice and it's [TS]

00:15:51   not it's not nice you couldn't send a BB [TS]

00:15:52   code formatted really complicated thing [TS]

00:15:54   to your mother and expect her to read it [TS]

00:15:55   like oh that's just a nice D mail if you [TS]

00:15:57   like what are these square brackets and [TS]

00:15:58   these long things all over the place [TS]

00:15:59   something like that yeah it doesn't look [TS]

00:16:01   like text so markdown there's minimal it [TS]

00:16:03   this is what differentiated I think it [TS]

00:16:05   might have been the first one to do this [TS]

00:16:06   to reject the notion that I'm going to [TS]

00:16:09   create a language that's not HTML but [TS]

00:16:11   lets you do almost everything that you [TS]

00:16:12   can do in HTML markdown explicitly does [TS]

00:16:14   not let you do almost everything you can [TS]

00:16:16   do in HTML I as a very limited syntax [TS]

00:16:20   and the other thing about Mark now is [TS]

00:16:22   like since he's using it to his post he [TS]

00:16:23   says well but I'm not trying to protect [TS]

00:16:26   myself from myself right he's not [TS]

00:16:29   concerned he's going to do something [TS]

00:16:30   right so it also lets you just write [TS]

00:16:32   HTML in a markdown post you can okay and [TS]

00:16:34   now I'm going to write HTML right I see [TS]

00:16:36   is not it's not a security exploit so [TS]

00:16:38   this is and now obviously once you start [TS]

00:16:40   doing that it becomes you know it's not [TS]

00:16:42   as readable as possible it's not [TS]

00:16:43   publishable as is in the sense that [TS]

00:16:45   someone can look at the plaintext and [TS]

00:16:47   view it but that's the that's the [TS]

00:16:49   pragmatic part of the the language that [TS]

00:16:50   you're allowed to write HTML but it but [TS]

00:16:52   you shouldn't have to because the things [TS]

00:16:53   you want to do 90% of the time there's [TS]

00:16:55   some nice syntax for word that would [TS]

00:16:57   look fine if you just showed it to [TS]

00:16:59   somebody so as I mentioned in earlier [TS]

00:17:07   discussions of this topic [TS]

00:17:09   I don't like markdown and I use it and [TS]

00:17:13   people want to hear me explain why I [TS]

00:17:15   think you get some exciting thing it's [TS]

00:17:16   not that exciting because it's not the [TS]

00:17:19   markdown as bad everything I described [TS]

00:17:21   makes it a novel and very popular with a [TS]

00:17:24   lot of people because it was I it was at [TS]

00:17:26   least one of the first popular formats [TS]

00:17:28   to take this particular philosophical [TS]

00:17:30   stance about not expanding to be the [TS]

00:17:32   language to do everything but also allow [TS]

00:17:34   you to HTML and stuff like that so [TS]

00:17:37   that's that's what made a novel and [TS]

00:17:38   probably you know the popularity of [TS]

00:17:40   during fireball and so on and so forth [TS]

00:17:41   or so kind of got that Network effecting [TS]

00:17:43   snowballs and lot of people use it [TS]

00:17:45   and if you use it and like it and it [TS]

00:17:47   suits your needs good I'm not going I'm [TS]

00:17:51   not arguing to try to dissuade you from [TS]

00:17:52   using something that you like but I will [TS]

00:17:56   explain why I don't use it and I don't [TS]

00:17:59   think that's it I don't think I'm a [TS]

00:18:00   common case or for a lot of purposes for [TS]

00:18:03   the common people I think it is probably [TS]

00:18:04   the best choice like for example for [TS]

00:18:06   Stack Overflow or maybe not Stack [TS]

00:18:08   Overflow but there's a whole bunch of [TS]

00:18:09   Stack Exchange sites that are Q&A sites [TS]

00:18:11   about other topics besides programming [TS]

00:18:15   is that there's a site for bicycle [TS]

00:18:18   enthusiasts and they don't know anything [TS]

00:18:19   about programming and they shouldn't be [TS]

00:18:20   expected to know I understand HTML [TS]

00:18:22   markdown is probably the right level for [TS]

00:18:25   just general type into an input box and [TS]

00:18:28   your simple rules you need to know to do [TS]

00:18:30   stuff it has enough where a new person [TS]

00:18:34   will eventually learn for example how to [TS]

00:18:36   make a hyperlink and they can overcome [TS]

00:18:37   that hurdle but if they don't know that [TS]

00:18:38   in the beginning they can just write the [TS]

00:18:40   way they normally would and it will work [TS]

00:18:41   out fine so why don't like the same [TS]

00:18:45   reason I like bbcode which could picked [TS]

00:18:47   up before with my little rant about the [TS]

00:18:48   square brackets is that I already know [TS]

00:18:51   HTML and I knew HTML way back in the day [TS]

00:18:54   ah so why would I want to learn your [TS]

00:18:56   other language that's like HTML but with [TS]

00:19:00   different syntax and there are 10,000 of [TS]

00:19:02   these language that's BB code and [TS]

00:19:04   textiles on and so forth it's just one [TS]

00:19:06   more thing for me to learn and that the [TS]

00:19:08   results going to be HTML anyway I don't [TS]

00:19:10   want to spend the time to learn your [TS]

00:19:12   particular syntax that's mostly true of [TS]

00:19:13   BB code mark now it's like what you'll [TS]

00:19:15   you know this index these are the things [TS]

00:19:16   you were doing in plain text I'm using [TS]

00:19:17   that in 1992 anyway it's not like you [TS]

00:19:19   need to learn anything and you got again [TS]

00:19:23   the philosophical difference where this [TS]

00:19:24   is not supposed to be as big as HTML is [TS]

00:19:26   not that much to learn why not just use [TS]

00:19:27   markdown the way you want I still find [TS]

00:19:31   myself want to use HTML even for stuff [TS]

00:19:32   like linking because the big attribute [TS]

00:19:38   of markdown lets it be readable as plain [TS]

00:19:42   text so you can put little square [TS]

00:19:44   bracket identifies next to the words you [TS]

00:19:46   want to be linked or around them or [TS]

00:19:47   whatever and not have the URL that you [TS]

00:19:49   potentially giant URL inline in the text [TS]

00:19:52   because any time you start getting URLs [TS]

00:19:54   in line in the text it becomes [TS]

00:19:56   unreadable like you're reading a [TS]

00:19:57   sentence and all of a sudden this [TS]

00:19:58   could be hundreds of characters [TS]

00:20:00   literally but some big giant URL I want [TS]

00:20:02   to get that out of there so it's like a [TS]

00:20:03   footnote type thing and then if you want [TS]

00:20:04   to see what that links do and again [TS]

00:20:05   people would do this in using that when [TS]

00:20:06   they typed in plain text they would they [TS]

00:20:08   would say if they would make reference [TS]

00:20:10   to a particular thing put a little [TS]

00:20:12   footnote at the bottom of the document [TS]

00:20:13   there would be a little numbered or [TS]

00:20:14   lettered list of footnotes that say this [TS]

00:20:16   the split uh links to here this footnote [TS]

00:20:17   links are there so on so forth because [TS]

00:20:19   people weren't doing HTML and Usenet and [TS]

00:20:22   so that's what Mark and DUHS gets the [TS]

00:20:24   links out of your text uh now that's [TS]

00:20:28   only important if you expect people to [TS]

00:20:29   read your what it is that you wrote with [TS]

00:20:34   the links in and for my purposes and [TS]

00:20:37   anything that I do that's that's never [TS]

00:20:39   the case even you know said well don't [TS]

00:20:40   you proofread what you write as we [TS]

00:20:41   discussed on the show by writing I don't [TS]

00:20:43   proofread it by reading the HTML that I [TS]

00:20:45   typed i proofread it by looking at VV at [TS]

00:20:47   its preview window or in a browser or [TS]

00:20:48   something like that that's not just [TS]

00:20:49   because well obviously you have to do [TS]

00:20:51   that because your source is all littered [TS]

00:20:53   up with a href things that wrap on seven [TS]

00:20:55   lines you know you can't read it that's [TS]

00:20:56   why you should use mark now that's not [TS]

00:20:57   the only reason i read separately read [TS]

00:20:59   separately for that reason we just [TS]

00:21:00   before is like when you when you're [TS]

00:21:02   proofreading your own writing it change [TS]

00:21:04   of venue a change of font to change of [TS]

00:21:06   margins a change where the wrapping is [TS]

00:21:08   and where the word breaks are will make [TS]

00:21:09   you find errors more readily for example [TS]

00:21:11   if you're missing a word at the very end [TS]

00:21:12   of a line it's very easy to miss that [TS]

00:21:14   when you're proofreading because you [TS]

00:21:15   read what you meant to write and quickly [TS]

00:21:17   your eyes go to the next line and you [TS]

00:21:19   keep going but when it rear apps and [TS]

00:21:20   that's in the middle of the line you [TS]

00:21:21   notice that you missed you know what - [TS]

00:21:22   or though or something in the middle of [TS]

00:21:24   the line like that and same thing with [TS]

00:21:26   the fonts when you see something in a [TS]

00:21:28   different context like above the [TS]

00:21:29   proportional font versus fixed because [TS]

00:21:30   i'm writing and BBEdit [TS]

00:21:31   in a fixed-width font bow and i see it [TS]

00:21:33   proportional as it's going to appear it [TS]

00:21:35   your mind changes you're able to find [TS]

00:21:37   your errors more easily so that [TS]

00:21:40   particular advantage of markdown doesn't [TS]

00:21:44   help me and the disadvantage i think is [TS]

00:21:46   that i find it harder to make sure that [TS]

00:21:48   a particular board links to a particular [TS]

00:21:50   links to the right place with the [TS]

00:21:53   footnote thing because you can do [TS]

00:21:55   numbers or you can do words so your [TS]

00:21:56   numbers then you get like the basic [TS]

00:21:58   thing where you got to leave gaps of 10 [TS]

00:21:59   or something or make sure you don't [TS]

00:22:01   repeat a number or what if you want to [TS]

00:22:03   do a different number here i did 1 2 3 [TS]

00:22:05   but then I got to put 4 right after 1 [TS]

00:22:06   because I forgot that I wanted to link [TS]

00:22:08   this word so I'm not use number use [TS]

00:22:09   words once use words you start to get [TS]

00:22:10   typos [TS]

00:22:11   it's like all I mistyped this word or [TS]

00:22:12   thought I call this link this someone [TS]

00:22:13   number the bottom the document putting [TS]

00:22:15   the URLs [TS]

00:22:15   I'm not spelling it right you know I'd [TS]

00:22:19   rather be able to look it because I do [TS]

00:22:20   look at the source to make sure my links [TS]

00:22:22   are okay I look at the source and see [TS]

00:22:23   you know triple W apple.com slash [TS]

00:22:26   displays is where I wanted to link for [TS]

00:22:28   this displays where you know you'd have [TS]

00:22:29   to read the whole URL but just you can [TS]

00:22:30   just glance that and see yeah I linked [TS]

00:22:32   this word to by thinking linked it [TS]

00:22:33   whereas if you have the if you have the [TS]

00:22:36   thing you're linking and the URL that [TS]

00:22:38   corresponds to widely-separated you have [TS]

00:22:40   to go back and forth with your eyes even [TS]

00:22:41   if we would have splitter in you got to [TS]

00:22:42   make sure they things match up [TS]

00:22:43   everything like that I find that more [TS]

00:22:45   cumbersome and yeah I guess you could [TS]

00:22:47   put the HTML and just mouse over every [TS]

00:22:48   single link and I'll kind of do that too [TS]

00:22:49   but I do look at the market ball I'm [TS]

00:22:52   typing it I just find it easier to while [TS]

00:22:54   I'm typing type the phrase that I want [TS]

00:22:55   to link and then select it quickly and [TS]

00:22:57   do I don't know which of those was a [TS]

00:22:59   ctrl command a and BB edit and then [TS]

00:23:02   paste in the URL and that it makes it [TS]

00:23:04   does all the age rough stuff for me it's [TS]

00:23:06   not like I'm typing left square that [TS]

00:23:07   left the the grid in less than signs [TS]

00:23:09   manually though sometimes I do do that [TS]

00:23:11   there are shortcuts in my editor that [TS]

00:23:13   make that not too cumbersome so the [TS]

00:23:17   second thing that makes me kind of fuzzy [TS]

00:23:20   on markdown even for the people who do [TS]

00:23:21   use it is that it has the same problem [TS]

00:23:23   that Perl Ruby Python I guess a lot of [TS]

00:23:27   these modern scripting languages have is [TS]

00:23:29   that not so much JavaScript because [TS]

00:23:32   JavaScript it's an exception but Perl [TS]

00:23:35   for example doesn't have a language spec [TS]

00:23:36   I don't think Ruby and Python do either [TS]

00:23:39   as in like a formal document that you [TS]

00:23:41   give to somebody and they say this [TS]

00:23:44   describes language like JavaScript has [TS]

00:23:46   one you know the echo standard this is [TS]

00:23:48   JavaScript and you could take that spec [TS]

00:23:49   and write an implementation that [TS]

00:23:51   conforms to that spec same thing you do [TS]

00:23:53   with seasoned tons of people make C [TS]

00:23:55   compilers is a C spec and I'll see 99 or [TS]

00:23:57   whatever if you want to make a c99 [TS]

00:23:59   compiler this thing explains exactly how [TS]

00:24:00   you do it and and that it's like it's [TS]

00:24:06   independent of the implementation it's [TS]

00:24:07   it's a spec disk defined abstractly the [TS]

00:24:11   Perl is not perl is an executable [TS]

00:24:14   written in C that when you feed it a [TS]

00:24:16   text file it interprets it as pro code [TS]

00:24:19   and it runs and what is Perl like the [TS]

00:24:20   lower case Perl prl is the executable [TS]

00:24:23   that runs your stuff capital letter P [TS]

00:24:24   is the language itself but the language [TS]

00:24:26   itself doesn't have a defined spec as a [TS]

00:24:28   test suite that comes with a particular [TS]

00:24:29   version of Perl but it's not you [TS]

00:24:32   couldn't give someone a spec for Perl [TS]

00:24:33   and say okay now make your own [TS]

00:24:34   implementation of Perl and all you need [TS]

00:24:35   to know is the spec you don't need to [TS]

00:24:36   look at our implementation of it you [TS]

00:24:38   just need the spec and if you conform to [TS]

00:24:39   the spec you will be compliant that's [TS]

00:24:43   not true of Perl I don't think it's true [TS]

00:24:45   of Ruby and Python either they have [TS]

00:24:46   they're defined by their implementations [TS]

00:24:48   so markdown as we mentioned it they the [TS]

00:24:51   last little thing I quoted it's two [TS]

00:24:53   things it's the formatting syntax but [TS]

00:24:55   it's also the software tool and really [TS]

00:24:57   that official implementation if you had [TS]

00:24:59   to find what is markdown it's it's [TS]

00:25:01   whatever ajamgarh is marked down dot PL [TS]

00:25:03   does now tons of other people have made [TS]

00:25:04   alternate implementations of markdown in [TS]

00:25:06   tons of languages JavaScript and Ruby [TS]

00:25:09   and PHP and everything is even alternate [TS]

00:25:12   alternate implementation in Perl I [TS]

00:25:14   believe and the multi markdown in the [TS]

00:25:17   various variants of markdown so this [TS]

00:25:18   whole world of things and they all have [TS]

00:25:20   the word marked down in them but they [TS]

00:25:21   don't all behave the same and the main [TS]

00:25:23   reason it'll behave the same is it is [TS]

00:25:24   not a spec and be the official [TS]

00:25:25   implementation isn't isn't really a [TS]

00:25:26   parser it's just a series a regular [TS]

00:25:28   expression sort of successively applied [TS]

00:25:29   and there's lots of heuristics in there [TS]

00:25:31   and you know Gruber changes his mind [TS]

00:25:34   occasionally it fixes bugs and so on and [TS]

00:25:35   so forth so markdown if you want to [TS]

00:25:37   define it the only real definition you [TS]

00:25:38   could say it's whatever markdown dot PL [TS]

00:25:40   does that's markdown and that has [TS]

00:25:41   changed over time and oh well so saying [TS]

00:25:46   that you're going to make a tool or [TS]

00:25:48   something that conforms to mark that [TS]

00:25:49   that uses markdown it's kind of [TS]

00:25:52   meaningless unless you say well what do [TS]

00:25:53   you mean by that what implementation of [TS]

00:25:55   markdown are using and what extensions [TS]

00:25:56   are applied to that thing it's not like [TS]

00:25:59   it's hTML is the same problem at least [TS]

00:26:00   there are a standard specs for that it's [TS]

00:26:01   that that just bothers me is that it's [TS]

00:26:04   an ill-defined thing and if I was going [TS]

00:26:06   to build a tool based on it I have to [TS]

00:26:08   pick my implementation and in my in my [TS]

00:26:11   interface that I've set you can put [TS]

00:26:12   markdown in this box and they expect [TS]

00:26:14   that everyone who reads that like [TS]

00:26:17   understands to have to explain like okay [TS]

00:26:19   well it's marked down but it's actually [TS]

00:26:20   this variant of markdown it's this [TS]

00:26:21   particular implementation if you're if [TS]

00:26:23   you're used to using markdown some other [TS]

00:26:25   tool that uses a different [TS]

00:26:26   implementation maybe the thing you're [TS]

00:26:27   going to do is going to behave [TS]

00:26:27   differently because there's all sorts of [TS]

00:26:29   weird edge cases and except like it's [TS]

00:26:32   not I it's not really a deterministic [TS]

00:26:36   type of thing especially over over the [TS]

00:26:38   long [TS]

00:26:38   term where you can make form make things [TS]

00:26:40   that could possibly confuse and markdown [TS]

00:26:42   and you could file them as a bug do [TS]

00:26:43   Gruber and say hey when I do this this [TS]

00:26:45   thing really should be italic but it [TS]

00:26:46   interprets the underscore incorrectly [TS]

00:26:47   went in this particular context it [TS]

00:26:49   doesn't make a bulleted list this way [TS]

00:26:50   ball blog can you fix that for me and if [TS]

00:26:52   he spot fixes your pet bug who's to say [TS]

00:26:54   you didn't introduce a change in [TS]

00:26:56   behavior that affects somebody else [TS]

00:26:57   because somebody else are in another [TS]

00:26:59   construct it was actually behaving a [TS]

00:27:00   different way without having a formal [TS]

00:27:02   spec in a real parser it makes it [TS]

00:27:04   difficult to rely on markdown the same [TS]

00:27:08   way you might rely on say you know HTML [TS]

00:27:10   for point out which is well defined now [TS]

00:27:13   in reality this is not much of a problem [TS]

00:27:14   because in reality even though this [TS]

00:27:16   there's a spec for HTML 4 doesn't mean [TS]

00:27:19   that everyone's going to comply do it [TS]

00:27:20   because it's big and complicated and in [TS]

00:27:22   reality where it counts most [TS]

00:27:24   implementations to mark nouns behave the [TS]

00:27:26   same way and there are the extension [TS]

00:27:27   ones make it clear that I'm not marked [TS]

00:27:29   down I'm marked down plus XY and Z and [TS]

00:27:32   minus PQ n R but it does make me wary to [TS]

00:27:37   for example put all my life's work in [TS]

00:27:39   markdown format with the expectation [TS]

00:27:42   that the HTML generated from them today [TS]

00:27:43   will be the same as the HTML generated [TS]

00:27:45   from them tomorrow I would even be wary [TS]

00:27:49   do that even if I was John Gruber and I [TS]

00:27:51   controlled the markdown in Poland Asian [TS]

00:27:52   because unless you never change the [TS]

00:27:53   market and implementation you could you [TS]

00:27:56   know five years from now [TS]

00:27:57   make some new construct that you want to [TS]

00:27:58   add put it in your mark 10 dot PL and [TS]

00:28:00   now realize that it breaks links and on [TS]

00:28:02   some of your older content where you to [TS]

00:28:04   run it through the markdown generator [TS]

00:28:05   again so I think that's about it for our [TS]

00:28:11   markdown like I'm not I'm not anti [TS]

00:28:13   markdown or against markdown I just [TS]

00:28:15   don't use it because it doesn't fit what [TS]

00:28:18   I do now like I said I'm not I'm not a [TS]

00:28:21   common case most people are not [TS]

00:28:23   completely comfortable in HTML and don't [TS]

00:28:25   have even know the tool exists like VB [TS]

00:28:27   edit where you can see a real-time [TS]

00:28:28   preview of the HTML that you're writing [TS]

00:28:30   and so on and so forth [TS]

00:28:31   so it is appropriate for lots of [TS]

00:28:34   applications and people like it good for [TS]

00:28:38   them it's just not for me well you said [TS]

00:28:40   that specs there is no official spec so [TS]

00:28:43   that's that's fine but specs and [TS]

00:28:46   standards of rendering change all the [TS]

00:28:49   time I mean the HTML that people wrote [TS]

00:28:51   years [TS]

00:28:52   to go might or might not look the way [TS]

00:28:54   they intended to in a 2011 browser [TS]

00:28:57   that's not really an I mean it should [TS]

00:28:59   that's a knock against HTML but hTML is [TS]

00:29:02   much more complicated but you could in [TS]

00:29:03   theory let's just say you have something [TS]

00:29:05   was written for HTML 3.2 if you if you [TS]

00:29:08   ever wanted that to always display [TS]

00:29:09   correctly you've got the HTML 3.2 a spec [TS]

00:29:11   and you could say well according to the [TS]

00:29:13   HTML 3.0 spec this is how it should be [TS]

00:29:15   displayed so in theory you could you [TS]

00:29:17   know programmatically sale this is HTML [TS]

00:29:19   3.2 at the HTML 3 bun to spec I will use [TS]

00:29:21   the HTML 3.2 renderer and it will never [TS]

00:29:23   change how it looks because I'm not [TS]

00:29:25   using a renderer called HTML you know [TS]

00:29:27   I'm rendering according to several [TS]

00:29:29   different specs now in practice that's [TS]

00:29:31   much fuzzier than that because like [TS]

00:29:32   quirks mode and standards mode it's not [TS]

00:29:34   as granular as like I know exactly which [TS]

00:29:35   spec this is so I'm going to fire up [TS]

00:29:37   this particular spec renderer but there [TS]

00:29:39   are gradations in there where old [TS]

00:29:41   content is treated one day a new newer [TS]

00:29:43   content read another in html5 is treated [TS]

00:29:45   yet another way because html5 actually [TS]

00:29:47   defines the error conditions and stuff [TS]

00:29:49   like that but with markdown it's not [TS]

00:29:50   like it's versioned it's not like you're [TS]

00:29:52   indicating to the parser what version [TS]

00:29:54   like there's no doctype header and [TS]

00:29:56   there's not I don't think the format [TS]

00:29:57   itself is even version so you couldn't [TS]

00:29:59   say well I wrote this in 2006 and 2006 [TS]

00:30:01   the current version of the markdown spec [TS]

00:30:02   was x y&z so I'm going to parse it [TS]

00:30:04   according to those rules you know what I [TS]

00:30:06   mean you wouldn't be content though if [TS]

00:30:09   you just had your own you say ok you [TS]

00:30:12   know what I'm going to use this version [TS]

00:30:15   of markdown and this is what I'm going [TS]

00:30:17   to stick with for all the stuff that I [TS]

00:30:18   do and I don't care if they change the [TS]

00:30:20   implementation later or not this is what [TS]

00:30:23   I use this is what I use I'm happy with [TS]

00:30:24   it yeah hopefully your personal use that [TS]

00:30:26   that will mostly be ok but even in your [TS]

00:30:28   personal use like I said you might be [TS]

00:30:29   tempted a year later to add some new [TS]

00:30:32   GIGO especially if it's your own [TS]

00:30:34   implementation in your program you're [TS]

00:30:35   like oh actually I just want to have [TS]

00:30:36   this new format word and you put a [TS]

00:30:37   Unicode smiley face around words it [TS]

00:30:39   makes them blink or something and maybe [TS]

00:30:42   not that but like I want to be able to [TS]

00:30:43   do nested lists with a mouse over [TS]

00:30:46   something or like I don't know you want [TS]

00:30:48   to add something and you and you to do [TS]

00:30:50   it you'd modify your implementation not [TS]

00:30:53   understanding that it may possibly [TS]

00:30:55   change the way things in the past are [TS]

00:30:57   rendered it's also not an issue by the [TS]

00:30:59   way if you have markdown source that [TS]

00:31:00   you're generally HTML from the HTML is [TS]

00:31:02   never regenerate it if you're generated [TS]

00:31:03   it once [TS]

00:31:04   fine you know but if you're relying on [TS]

00:31:05   the fact that you can regenerate it [TS]

00:31:07   later yeah you could read you regenerate [TS]

00:31:09   it would look exactly the same then you [TS]

00:31:10   need some sort of comprehensive test [TS]

00:31:11   suite to make sure that you're not [TS]

00:31:12   regressing yeah [TS]

00:31:14   without a spec for languages like a [TS]

00:31:16   zebra HTML which has a spec and all you [TS]

00:31:18   know it's very difficult to define like [TS]

00:31:22   the markdown wants to be sort of do what [TS]

00:31:24   I mean and that's why it is the way it [TS]

00:31:26   is pearls is a similar type of way you [TS]

00:31:27   want it to just kind of like read your [TS]

00:31:30   mind right so it's very difficult to [TS]

00:31:32   write down a formal spec but that's what [TS]

00:31:33   you the easiest formal spec to do and [TS]

00:31:35   implement is the one that doesn't behave [TS]

00:31:37   nicely the one that just behaves like a [TS]

00:31:38   machine like though that's stupid that's [TS]

00:31:40   not what I want obviously when I do this [TS]

00:31:42   I want it to be this but when I do that [TS]

00:31:43   you know if a human looked at they could [TS]

00:31:44   tell so why can't you tell and you say [TS]

00:31:46   well if we just define it one particular [TS]

00:31:49   way it's really easy for the machine to [TS]

00:31:50   implement and they said that's a crappy [TS]

00:31:51   format I'm gonna use markdown because [TS]

00:31:52   that's what I want those are the most [TS]

00:31:54   dangerous things to modify because the [TS]

00:31:57   that do what I mean is them and those [TS]

00:31:58   exceptions and special cases and stuff [TS]

00:32:00   like that like look at the marking on [TS]

00:32:02   that PL implementation you can see [TS]

00:32:03   comments in there and stuff that are [TS]

00:32:04   like it could of showing that it's [TS]

00:32:07   trying to work it's trying to be ugly [TS]

00:32:10   inside so that the outside is beautiful [TS]

00:32:12   it's one of those that a programmer [TS]

00:32:15   motto that the idea that when you're [TS]

00:32:17   writing a library you are going to write [TS]

00:32:19   the most horrendous horrible like you [TS]

00:32:21   can unroll loops you're going to [TS]

00:32:22   structure it weirdly it's going to be [TS]

00:32:24   community so that the users of your API [TS]

00:32:25   don't have to see this ugliness like [TS]

00:32:27   you're going to do all the sand we [TS]

00:32:28   checking and Marshall everything and so [TS]

00:32:29   on and so forth where you know you make [TS]

00:32:32   a wall and you say I'm going to provide [TS]

00:32:34   you what looks like a magical service [TS]

00:32:35   and inside I might have to do some ugly [TS]

00:32:37   things but you don't have to know about [TS]

00:32:38   them as just that's my problem you do a [TS]

00:32:40   series of those layers you get a much [TS]

00:32:41   nice tool so you want your tool to do [TS]

00:32:42   that for you you don't want to the tool [TS]

00:32:44   to say I am Lisp you can use you know [TS]

00:32:47   everything is data show me your [TS]

00:32:50   parentheses and anything else you want [TS]

00:32:51   to build on that you have to build up [TS]

00:32:52   from zero you it's nice to have tools [TS]

00:32:55   that do all these fancy things the [TS]

00:32:57   inside for you but those are the most [TS]

00:32:58   difficult tools to modify it's much [TS]

00:33:00   easier when you push that onto the the [TS]

00:33:01   user to modify them and be sure you're [TS]

00:33:02   not changing the way it will behave down [TS]

00:33:05   the line again none of these things [TS]

00:33:07   should be there's a like oh this is why [TS]

00:33:08   you shouldn't use markdown if markdown [TS]

00:33:10   works for you to definitely use it and [TS]

00:33:12   it does have a lot of qualities that [TS]

00:33:14   make it better than bbcode and [TS]

00:33:16   those other past formers I don't know [TS]

00:33:17   anything about textile knows I looked at [TS]

00:33:19   the briefly they seem to not have the [TS]

00:33:21   philosophy that the thing should be [TS]

00:33:22   readable as is if you can mail the tear [TS]

00:33:24   mom so I think that's still definitely [TS]

00:33:27   distinction of markdown you know you [TS]

00:33:30   know in the chat room says that Python [TS]

00:33:32   does have a language spec Ruby does not [TS]

00:33:34   and if anything that's a knock against [TS]

00:33:38   Python other alternate implementations [TS]

00:33:40   of Python then I mean there's alternate [TS]

00:33:42   implications of Ruby but they're not [TS]

00:33:43   it's not based on a spec but you know [TS]

00:33:45   they're just based on let's do whatever [TS]

00:33:48   in the real Ruby well the defect that a [TS]

00:33:51   facto implementation is is the one Matz [TS]

00:33:54   did that's just the consider that room [TS]

00:33:57   said there are multiple inflammations of [TS]

00:33:58   Python that's interesting I see that as [TS]

00:34:01   a knock against Python easy DNS comm [TS]

00:34:05   since 1998 easy DNS has been helping [TS]

00:34:07   people register web address transfer [TS]

00:34:09   domain set up the email forwarding in a [TS]

00:34:10   course manage their DNS now listen this [TS]

00:34:14   is this is my advice in take it or not [TS]

00:34:16   you take it or not but I highly [TS]

00:34:18   recommend you decouple your DNS from [TS]

00:34:22   from your your especially if you use one [TS]

00:34:25   of the kind of run-of-the-mill [TS]

00:34:27   registrar's which by the way I do [TS]

00:34:28   there's nothing wrong with that but I [TS]

00:34:31   recommend you de couple your DNS from [TS]

00:34:33   that D couple your DNS from your your [TS]

00:34:36   hosting provider not because they don't [TS]

00:34:38   do a good job that's fine but one day [TS]

00:34:39   you may say you know what this host has [TS]

00:34:41   been an excellent host for the last five [TS]

00:34:43   years but you know I'm ready to do [TS]

00:34:45   something different I want to do [TS]

00:34:46   something different I it it becomes a [TS]

00:34:49   little bit of a challenge to control [TS]

00:34:52   your DNS and to control that migration [TS]

00:34:54   if your previous host is running the DNS [TS]

00:34:56   especially if they're running it for you [TS]

00:34:57   and it's out of your control oh well [TS]

00:34:59   here you say this is where you say well [TS]

00:35:00   I don't know I don't want to learn DNS I [TS]

00:35:02   don't want to worry about how to and I [TS]

00:35:03   just I'd like that simple form will [TS]

00:35:05   guess what [TS]

00:35:05   easy DNS has all that to and the genius [TS]

00:35:09   is here you can switch hosts you can [TS]

00:35:11   switch registrar's you can do whatever [TS]

00:35:13   you want completely independent of your [TS]

00:35:16   DNS that you control it you control with [TS]

00:35:18   a simple form or you can have them help [TS]

00:35:20   you do it real people answer the phone [TS]

00:35:22   when you call then don't read scripts [TS]

00:35:25   they just want to help you with your [TS]

00:35:26   problems they just want to help things [TS]

00:35:27   move along swimmingly you [TS]

00:35:30   easy DNS comm / 5x5 and you will learn [TS]

00:35:34   more about special deals and and just [TS]

00:35:37   general good stuff for 5x5 listeners so [TS]

00:35:39   that's easy DNS comm / 5x5 and you know [TS]

00:35:42   what I should mention this too they're [TS]

00:35:44   probably way more secure and way more [TS]

00:35:47   reliable and have way more redundancy [TS]

00:35:49   than pretty much anybody else out there [TS]

00:35:52   whether to registrar another DNS [TS]

00:35:54   provider so go check them out love those [TS]

00:35:55   guys [TS]

00:35:57   I'm looking at the alternative [TS]

00:35:59   implementations of Python page that was [TS]

00:36:00   posted in a thing and I should be these [TS]

00:36:02   from back in the day yeah cuz yeah you [TS]

00:36:04   used to do Python no it was one of the [TS]

00:36:07   first languages to get try to get on top [TS]

00:36:09   of the JVM and that ironpython and [TS]

00:36:11   python Frenette and all that business [TS]

00:36:13   yeah although this page they linked to [TS]

00:36:16   me they said it was the language spec it [TS]

00:36:18   looks just like a reference to me [TS]

00:36:19   there's a difference between a thing [TS]

00:36:21   that explains the language like a [TS]

00:36:22   reference and and a spec for implement [TS]

00:36:24   implementers you know what I mean like [TS]

00:36:26   the I don't know this helped the ECMO [TS]

00:36:29   scripts standard it's not you don't read [TS]

00:36:31   that when you want to learn how to [TS]

00:36:32   program in JavaScript you read that when [TS]

00:36:35   you want to make a JavaScript [TS]

00:36:36   implementation or as this Python [TS]

00:36:38   language reference looks like it's [TS]

00:36:39   written for people who want to learn how [TS]

00:36:41   to write Python it's not written for [TS]

00:36:43   people want to learn how to implement [TS]

00:36:44   Python huh I guess it's a fine line and [TS]

00:36:46   it does look reasonably comprehensive [TS]

00:36:48   but the implementation one is filled [TS]

00:36:50   with like all those HTML spec w3c things [TS]

00:36:52   of like implications must do this and [TS]

00:36:54   should do that in this case you know [TS]

00:36:56   this is this case is undefined and so on [TS]

00:36:58   and so forth whereas this is like if you [TS]

00:37:00   want to write Python here's the syntax [TS]

00:37:01   here's I use these different constructs [TS]

00:37:03   but the purpose isn't putting there's [TS]

00:37:05   multiple mutations again it's multiple [TS]

00:37:06   imitations of Ruby as well usually [TS]

00:37:08   running on top of different VMs like the [TS]

00:37:10   JVM or CLR and stuff like that but [TS]

00:37:13   there's other things as well where [TS]

00:37:14   people try to write I probably done a [TS]

00:37:16   few times dude I tried to rewrite it and [TS]

00:37:18   C++ or do alternate C implementations or [TS]

00:37:20   write a version of it that runs on top [TS]

00:37:22   of other type of VM environment some of [TS]

00:37:26   them been successful now Perl 6 is [TS]

00:37:27   different Perl 6 doesn't have a spec so [TS]

00:37:30   much as it has it's decided that it's [TS]

00:37:32   definition is we're going to make a test [TS]

00:37:34   suite and if your language passes this [TS]

00:37:35   test suite you are officially Perl 6 but [TS]

00:37:38   and your implementation can be whatever [TS]

00:37:39   you can write it in you know read it and [TS]

00:37:41   write your implementation [TS]

00:37:43   five right your invitation and [TS]

00:37:44   JavaScript you don't care you pass the [TS]

00:37:45   test week you are considered Perl 6 so [TS]

00:37:49   that's a different way to go at it we're [TS]

00:37:51   like we can't be bothered to write a [TS]

00:37:52   language spec we're going to write a [TS]

00:37:53   language reference but our spec is this [TS]

00:37:55   humongous test suite and I would imagine [TS]

00:37:58   that's true of these alternate [TS]

00:37:59   implemented as well like how do they [TS]

00:38:01   tell they've done it successfully well [TS]

00:38:02   they probably have a series of tests or [TS]

00:38:04   the test suite from the language itself [TS]

00:38:05   and I said well we'll run the actual [TS]

00:38:07   implementation of Ruby or Python against [TS]

00:38:09   it and them over on our thing and see if [TS]

00:38:10   we get the same results I remember it [TS]

00:38:13   was awhile I was exciting when they [TS]

00:38:14   first Ruby implantation that wasn't MRI [TS]

00:38:17   that wasn't Matz's Ruby interpreter I [TS]

00:38:19   was first able to run rails because in [TS]

00:38:21   the beginning when they were it's sort [TS]

00:38:23   of infants that like well it's Ruby but [TS]

00:38:24   we can't quite one we're and rails yet [TS]

00:38:26   because we we don't have this corner [TS]

00:38:27   case exactly the same way as the real [TS]

00:38:29   interpreter doesn't and eventually to [TS]

00:38:31   get up to speed was able to run rails [TS]

00:38:33   was a big day big day for the rails [TS]

00:38:35   community yeah that a long time ago yeah [TS]

00:38:37   live feels like not that long but it was [TS]

00:38:39   Ruby nice was that the first one to do [TS]

00:38:42   it no I don't like say just saying it [TS]

00:38:46   would be a maglev has got the best name [TS]

00:38:49   it's a cool name all right so that's [TS]

00:38:52   markdown OC I thought that'd be wasn't [TS]

00:38:54   that bad I was not exciting yeah I I for [TS]

00:38:58   the record do use markdown I use textile [TS]

00:39:01   as well no it doesn't really matter to [TS]

00:39:05   me do you when you use the the mark [TS]

00:39:07   nothing do you ever have this problem is [TS]

00:39:09   I've tried use markdown a few times and [TS]

00:39:10   this was maybe goes away after user for [TS]

00:39:11   all the thing of like keeping track of [TS]

00:39:13   what links to where since they're [TS]

00:39:14   separated in the footnotes does that [TS]

00:39:16   ever bother you at all I'd well see I [TS]

00:39:17   don't do it that style I do inline links [TS]

00:39:19   yeah so once you're doing inline links [TS]

00:39:21   that argues is like well the line I just [TS]

00:39:23   write especially again you haven't [TS]

00:39:24   gotten into all the little keyboard [TS]

00:39:26   shortcuts the BBEdit does a baby yet it [TS]

00:39:28   has a big set of shortcuts then you can [TS]

00:39:32   define for a quickly adding markup like [TS]

00:39:34   you don't have to write the tags [TS]

00:39:35   yourself obviously there's menu commands [TS]

00:39:37   and palettes and all that stuff for [TS]

00:39:38   BBEdit for doing markup but that's [TS]

00:39:40   slower than typing in most of the cases [TS]

00:39:42   what you really need to do is eventually [TS]

00:39:43   figure out what are the six or seven [TS]

00:39:44   tags or constructs that you use most [TS]

00:39:46   frequently and assign them to keyboard [TS]

00:39:48   shortcuts and eventually those keyboard [TS]

00:39:49   shortcuts get drilled in and that's just [TS]

00:39:51   so much faster than right and I think [TS]

00:39:53   you do the same thing with markdown but [TS]

00:39:54   again once I start once I start doing [TS]

00:39:56   stuff in line like [TS]

00:39:57   I'm like why aren't I just writing HTML [TS]

00:39:58   because now now it's unreadable to me [TS]

00:39:59   now I can't look at I have no chance [TS]

00:40:01   looking at it in mine well Stan Siddhant [TS]

00:40:03   it's an interesting argument that you [TS]

00:40:05   make but you also kind of have the [TS]

00:40:08   assumption that people are always and [TS]

00:40:10   you know what I think you're right by [TS]

00:40:12   the way this is probably an accurate [TS]

00:40:13   assumption to make most of the time but [TS]

00:40:16   the assumption that you make is that [TS]

00:40:17   people will be using the same tool [TS]

00:40:19   configured the same way everywhere that [TS]

00:40:21   they go so that means if they have you [TS]

00:40:24   know one one computer that they do all [TS]

00:40:25   their stuff on they can they can [TS]

00:40:27   configure everything and it's just going [TS]

00:40:28   to work great but what if you got a [TS]

00:40:30   Windows machine of work and an iPad that [TS]

00:40:34   you travel around with and a Mac at home [TS]

00:40:36   and an iPhone with you and you know what [TS]

00:40:40   you may want to write in a consistent [TS]

00:40:41   way across the board doing you know I'm [TS]

00:40:44   not again I'm not I'm neither a defender [TS]

00:40:48   of Nora [TS]

00:40:48   you know anti markdown but using [TS]

00:40:54   something like that where you don't have [TS]

00:40:56   to set up and remember and I'm the type [TS]

00:40:58   of guy that the fewer the fewer [TS]

00:41:00   customizations I can make to my in [TS]

00:41:02   development or writing environment the [TS]

00:41:04   better so you would find on my machine [TS]

00:41:06   there is ZERO customization there's zero [TS]

00:41:09   keyboard shortcuts that I've done with [TS]

00:41:12   one exception I would I like for either [TS]

00:41:14   launch bar or Quicksilver which you got [TS]

00:41:17   me using again I either one of those I [TS]

00:41:20   like it to be command space so I will [TS]

00:41:23   disable the built-in command space [TS]

00:41:25   spotlight activator just by unchecking [TS]

00:41:28   the box that's like the only slightly [TS]

00:41:31   keyboard related modification that I [TS]

00:41:33   will make to this stock OS 10 [TS]

00:41:35   implementation that's it I don't do any [TS]

00:41:39   keyboard command I don't do any [TS]

00:41:40   application specific keyboard commands I [TS]

00:41:41   don't have triggers I don't have macros [TS]

00:41:43   I don't install services why not they [TS]

00:41:45   save so much time why because I can sit [TS]

00:41:48   down at any computer any time whether [TS]

00:41:50   they're one of the dozen computers in [TS]

00:41:52   this office or my mom's computer my [TS]

00:41:55   wife's computer whatever and I have [TS]

00:41:58   essentially the exact same environment [TS]

00:42:00   so I'm going to take the burden on [TS]

00:42:02   myself if I want to write something and [TS]

00:42:04   I want to do markup now maybe I'll use [TS]

00:42:07   textile or markdown or even just HTML [TS]

00:42:09   but [TS]

00:42:10   I will type it all I remember I was [TS]

00:42:12   doing a screencast for Jeffrey gross and [TS]

00:42:13   Bach and I was typing out the HTML while [TS]

00:42:17   I was filming and he says oh you should [TS]

00:42:18   really just you don't let let textmate [TS]

00:42:20   do that for you don't type it out you [TS]

00:42:22   know textmate has the things built in as [TS]

00:42:24   you type you thing he's like why aren't [TS]

00:42:26   you doing that like not like you're [TS]

00:42:28   stupid you should do it but just he was [TS]

00:42:30   curious and I said you know I don't use [TS]

00:42:33   them in practice I don't ever use them [TS]

00:42:35   in practice and he's like well that's [TS]

00:42:36   one of the big time-saver is a text - [TS]

00:42:38   yeah but you know for me I just I maybe [TS]

00:42:42   I'm old-fashioned but I like that [TS]

00:42:44   portability I'll take the burden on [TS]

00:42:45   myself mentally mentally rather than [TS]

00:42:48   take the time to create all of these [TS]

00:42:50   things because if I were to then go and [TS]

00:42:53   sit down in front of a completely [TS]

00:42:54   vanilla machine which happens to me [TS]

00:42:57   frequently regularly then I'm like oh [TS]

00:43:00   man where my keyboard shortcuts I got to [TS]

00:43:02   set all those up oh I don't have all [TS]

00:43:03   these dot files they use etc whereas I [TS]

00:43:05   just walk over there sit down and start [TS]

00:43:07   typing and it you know if I if it's [TS]

00:43:09   going to go through markdown I remember [TS]

00:43:10   everything I need to know about that or [TS]

00:43:12   HTML so you think of the situation where [TS]

00:43:15   you could be that happens to me be them [TS]

00:43:18   the most primitive situation you could [TS]

00:43:19   possibly be in where you are without [TS]

00:43:21   your tools without your comfort [TS]

00:43:23   environment it's like the worst case [TS]

00:43:24   there that's me every day that the time [TS]

00:43:26   where you where you have most the most [TS]

00:43:30   possible impediments to your efficiency [TS]

00:43:31   right every day that's and that's how [TS]

00:43:33   you want to work all the time not that's [TS]

00:43:34   how I frequently find myself what you're [TS]

00:43:36   doing is you're finding this illusion [TS]

00:43:38   that you can use in the least efficient [TS]

00:43:39   situation like your level efficiency [TS]

00:43:41   you're pushing you say that the worst [TS]

00:43:43   case scenario I'm gonna live like that [TS]

00:43:44   all what you know what could be better [TS]

00:43:46   I'm going to lower my efficiency [TS]

00:43:48   artificially to the worst possible case [TS]

00:43:50   scenario so that it's consistent that [TS]

00:43:53   sounds about right because I find myself [TS]

00:43:55   in that situation very frequently I'm [TS]

00:43:57   often using a computer that's not mine [TS]

00:43:59   or that's not set up or they can't be [TS]

00:44:00   set up or that doesn't have BBEdit [TS]

00:44:02   auditors and the other thing is like I [TS]

00:44:04   still have to make an update to [TS]

00:44:05   something if the mark that argument only [TS]

00:44:07   works in that case if every source that [TS]

00:44:10   you're going to shove text into [TS]

00:44:11   understands markdown if it doesn't then [TS]

00:44:12   you then you're constantly in need of [TS]

00:44:13   the two of you know markdown PL or some [TS]

00:44:15   other tool that converts your markdown [TS]

00:44:17   page true that's true or you just type [TS]

00:44:19   it in HTML I think it's important to [TS]

00:44:21   know how to use the default emulation [TS]

00:44:23   for example I know [TS]

00:44:24   how to get into VI yeah but you would [TS]

00:44:25   fit first rapping you wouldn't feel [TS]

00:44:27   frustrated using VI oh right but I know [TS]

00:44:29   how to do it like if I'm on a machine [TS]

00:44:31   that doesn't have Emacs I can use VI and [TS]

00:44:33   Emacs I have all sorts of custom [TS]

00:44:35   bindings from from back in my days in [TS]

00:44:37   Emacs but I know what the default [TS]

00:44:39   bindings are so if I'm a customer Xin [TS]

00:44:41   don't have to but I don't want to lower [TS]

00:44:42   my efficiency to that well because 99% [TS]

00:44:45   of the time I'm working on my one home [TS]

00:44:46   computer in one more computer and I put [TS]

00:44:48   in the time at a time to set them up but [TS]

00:44:49   yes I think I think we should say makes [TS]

00:44:51   more sense I'm just yeah yeah I mean if [TS]

00:44:55   that's your average your if most of the [TS]

00:44:56   time you're not on a computer that you [TS]

00:44:58   you know you're on a strange computer [TS]

00:44:59   then yeah you just have to that because [TS]

00:45:01   I deal with it I just don't think [TS]

00:45:03   configuring your environment to be [TS]

00:45:05   although here's the one case that you [TS]

00:45:07   mentioned that I think is uh definitely [TS]

00:45:08   real if I'm typing on an iOS device [TS]

00:45:11   where I don't have a real keyboard you [TS]

00:45:12   do not want to be type in HTML and iOS [TS]

00:45:14   device cool shoot yourself in the head [TS]

00:45:16   so markdown is like are anything like [TS]

00:45:17   you want these against them anything is [TS]

00:45:19   better than that so yeah definitely on [TS]

00:45:21   an iOS device it suddenly becomes like [TS]

00:45:23   shifted characters no you don't want to [TS]

00:45:25   do them even putting little stars for [TS]

00:45:26   markdown it's a paid but P tags forget [TS]

00:45:28   it never likes just it's impossible you [TS]

00:45:31   know so in that case I would definitely [TS]

00:45:33   say if there's a that's like an ideal [TS]

00:45:36   environment for a minimalist you know [TS]

00:45:38   very few formatting characters I don't [TS]

00:45:40   have to type anything the type of thing [TS]

00:45:42   right and who knows maybe group is doing [TS]

00:45:44   a lot of us posting for my pets these [TS]

00:45:45   days are pecking stuff out in this I [TS]

00:45:47   know I know uses his phone waiting in a [TS]

00:45:49   lot of stuff store this is part of his [TS]

00:45:51   cover he probably wouldn't you know this [TS]

00:45:53   some I've figured out over over over the [TS]

00:45:55   years I've known him is he'll go on he [TS]

00:45:57   goes on fit I mean like I thought you [TS]

00:45:59   went on vacation he's on vacation [TS]

00:46:01   constantly but you'd never mean [TS]

00:46:03   technically how can you tell how you [TS]

00:46:05   can't tell because what he does he has [TS]

00:46:06   his eyes like was a vacation he's well I [TS]

00:46:09   can't argue that but he's he's out there [TS]

00:46:12   he he'll be out there you know on a boat [TS]

00:46:14   or wherever he is and he'll be he'll be [TS]

00:46:16   posting so I guess it's not really the [TS]

00:46:18   same kind of vacation and people take [TS]

00:46:20   when they completely turn everything off [TS]

00:46:21   its travel he's away from his house he's [TS]

00:46:23   traveling he's traveling and under the [TS]

00:46:26   guise of but it's all secret you never [TS]

00:46:28   really know it because he's still [TS]

00:46:29   posting links and everything he just [TS]

00:46:30   does it from his phone and once in a [TS]

00:46:33   while you can catch him once here's how [TS]

00:46:35   you know if you want to get really fancy [TS]

00:46:36   this is how you can figure out the [TS]

00:46:37   secret little secret I can figure out [TS]

00:46:40   when he's when he's gone is if if you're [TS]

00:46:44   really on top of things and you read the [TS]

00:46:46   links on the show pondering fireball [TS]

00:46:48   once in a while one of them it'll be the [TS]

00:46:51   mobile version of the website instead of [TS]

00:46:53   the regular version they'll be like MDOT [TS]

00:46:55   whatever you know you'll see that you'll [TS]

00:46:57   look at you look at your browser like [TS]

00:46:58   why does it look like crap oh this is [TS]

00:47:00   the mobile version that's a dead [TS]

00:47:02   giveaway that he's posting on the road [TS]

00:47:03   he doesn't done that in a while but you [TS]

00:47:05   know does get the autocomplete me that [TS]

00:47:06   was another thing if you look for the [TS]

00:47:08   autocomplete autocorrect yeah things [TS]

00:47:10   although with Lion now get a washout on [TS]

00:47:12   my quest any month becomes less of a [TS]

00:47:15   differentiator so there's something else [TS]

00:47:17   I want to talk to you about I mean you [TS]

00:47:19   may have other things on this list I [TS]

00:47:21   didn't but God well let me do the we'll [TS]

00:47:23   do our second sponsor it's MailChimp we [TS]

00:47:25   love MailChimp these are these the easy [TS]

00:47:27   email newsletter guys and they will help [TS]

00:47:32   you design your newsletters they'll help [TS]

00:47:35   you share them on social networks [TS]

00:47:37   they'll help you integrate with services [TS]

00:47:38   you already use and they track the [TS]

00:47:40   results it's like this is their term but [TS]

00:47:43   I like it they call it a personal [TS]

00:47:44   publishing platform that's what they are [TS]

00:47:46   and here's the thing I don't know how [TS]

00:47:47   they do this and I've said this in the [TS]

00:47:50   spots before but it really is [TS]

00:47:52   mind-boggling to me twelve thousand [TS]

00:47:54   emails per month every month for free [TS]

00:47:57   forever so you can you can do that you [TS]

00:48:01   can send twelve thousand emails a month [TS]

00:48:03   I know I don't know how this is free but [TS]

00:48:06   it is free you can check them out at [TS]

00:48:08   MailChimp com [TS]

00:48:09   there's never been a better time to sign [TS]

00:48:10   up than right now I think they just [TS]

00:48:13   acquired tiny letter dot-com which was [TS]

00:48:17   basically it was like mailed it was like [TS]

00:48:18   what the little single gap that [TS]

00:48:21   MailChimp had in their arsenal of tools [TS]

00:48:23   which was like tiny little letters for [TS]

00:48:26   like small individual things as opposed [TS]

00:48:28   to stuff for companies they got them now [TS]

00:48:30   they're in there now so you can go check [TS]

00:48:32   that out mailchimp.com love those guys [TS]

00:48:35   big supporters of the show to hear [TS]

00:48:37   something is this just came out it's a [TS]

00:48:39   you know we don't really talk about [TS]

00:48:40   rumors and this isn't like a rumor show [TS]

00:48:42   uh but the this rumor came out and that [TS]

00:48:47   bloomberg is running in there I guess [TS]

00:48:49   they're credible right [TS]

00:48:50   sure usually a pretty good success rate [TS]

00:48:53   well the this is all presupposed on top [TS]

00:48:57   of a rumor anyway but sprint which is uh [TS]

00:49:00   for those who are not in the united [TS]

00:49:03   states it's i think it's a third largest [TS]

00:49:05   us wireless carrier and they will be [TS]

00:49:08   selling the iphone 5 in mid-october [TS]

00:49:12   and they have a deal with apple where [TS]

00:49:15   they are going to try and distinguish [TS]

00:49:17   themselves apparently by providing [TS]

00:49:19   unlimited data service or as you would [TS]

00:49:21   say data uh for for their you know [TS]

00:49:26   that's going to be the big [TS]

00:49:27   differentiator with with sprint so this [TS]

00:49:29   is all you know supposed and stuff but [TS]

00:49:30   there was a question that came up on one [TS]

00:49:33   of the one of the previous shows one of [TS]

00:49:35   the other shows i did i forget if it was [TS]

00:49:36   the one i did at the talk show with john [TS]

00:49:38   or if it was with marco but we were [TS]

00:49:41   talking about Sprint the Sprint is a [TS]

00:49:42   CDMA technology just like Verizon right [TS]

00:49:46   I think so ok so you know about this [TS]

00:49:50   because you're like a you know fancy [TS]

00:49:52   engineer whatever is there a different [TS]

00:49:54   CDMA radio then I heard you talking [TS]

00:49:58   different radio versus just tuned is it [TS]

00:50:00   like you go in your car and you turn you [TS]

00:50:01   turn tune the radio from 98.7 to 101.1 [TS]

00:50:05   the only thing I know about si am I ever [TS]

00:50:08   suggest I was what I learned and as an [TS]

00:50:10   undergraduate ages ago so CDMA little [TS]

00:50:12   van code division multiple access and it [TS]

00:50:15   has to do with the the signals being [TS]

00:50:17   sent and each receiver decodes it [TS]

00:50:20   according to their code that's assigned [TS]

00:50:22   to them to get their signal out from the [TS]

00:50:24   mix of other thanks I don't even know [TS]

00:50:25   what GSM does I think it's packets and I [TS]

00:50:28   think it doesn't use you know will take [TS]

00:50:29   seven different signals combined them [TS]

00:50:31   into one so that and then on the [TS]

00:50:32   receiving end they'll be differentiated [TS]

00:50:34   from each other but what it comes down [TS]

00:50:36   to for GSM versus CDMA is that there's [TS]

00:50:38   different chips in there it's not like [TS]

00:50:39   the pic they call it the radio it is the [TS]

00:50:41   thing that does the radio transmission [TS]

00:50:42   but something has to receive [TS]

00:50:44   electromagnetic waves through the air [TS]

00:50:46   and interpret them and get data out of [TS]

00:50:48   it and the chip that does that is very [TS]

00:50:50   different now what you were asking with [TS]

00:50:51   marco was among CDMA things the CDMA [TS]

00:50:55   from Sprint different from CD maybe from [TS]

00:50:56   something else like I imagine it could [TS]

00:50:58   be because the code division multiple [TS]

00:51:00   access could use a different set of [TS]

00:51:01   codes or a different frequencies or you [TS]

00:51:03   know [TS]

00:51:04   other things could vary not you know the [TS]

00:51:05   technique is CDMA but everything else [TS]

00:51:08   about it could be different is this a [TS]

00:51:10   software settable thing the way you [TS]

00:51:11   would turn a radio dial or is it like a [TS]

00:51:13   car to use them do they notice all do [TS]

00:51:16   they all use the same frequencies I [TS]

00:51:17   don't know if they use vector so if they [TS]

00:51:19   use different spectrum obviously you had [TS]

00:51:20   different different antenna lengths for [TS]

00:51:22   different frequencies and stuff like [TS]

00:51:23   that but really I I was in the chat room [TS]

00:51:25   when you were talking about that with [TS]

00:51:26   Marco I didn't participate because I [TS]

00:51:28   don't know marketed no you don't know I [TS]

00:51:29   don't know we need to get someone who's [TS]

00:51:31   an expert on the cell phone industry so [TS]

00:51:32   that knowing the the vague technical [TS]

00:51:35   underpinnings of the technologies tells [TS]

00:51:36   you nothing about whether Apple needs to [TS]

00:51:38   have a different chip now my guess is [TS]

00:51:39   and as Marco as well and as everybody's [TS]

00:51:41   was is that iPhone 5 there'll be one SKU [TS]

00:51:44   or you know one at least one one [TS]

00:51:47   motherboard basically they'll have [TS]

00:51:48   different amounts of flash and stuff [TS]

00:51:49   like that so they're going to use a [TS]

00:51:51   chipset they can do it won't be 4G but [TS]

00:51:53   it can do GSM CDMA everything for every [TS]

00:51:56   possible carrier and if there's not one [TS]

00:51:58   chip that does that now like if someone [TS]

00:52:00   says that you know there's only chip [TS]

00:52:01   that does these three carries and you [TS]

00:52:02   can't just print two I'm sure they got [TS]

00:52:03   one mate because they do not want to be [TS]

00:52:05   selling a Verizon iPhone or 18t iPhone a [TS]

00:52:07   sprint iPhone yeah if they don't have to [TS]

00:52:09   if this deal was in the works long [TS]

00:52:12   enough then they should have made that [TS]

00:52:14   make sure the iPhone violation ly the [TS]

00:52:16   iPhone 5 will do 18 t and verizon with [TS]

00:52:18   the same model but have a chip so that [TS]

00:52:20   can do both of those because those exist [TS]

00:52:21   if Sprint is different and if the deal I [TS]

00:52:24   came around late then they have to make [TS]

00:52:25   a special sprint iPhone then it'll be [TS]

00:52:27   kind of like the Verizon iPhone where [TS]

00:52:28   like well this is a verizon deal but [TS]

00:52:29   we've already got our phone at this we [TS]

00:52:30   got to make you a new phone that [TS]

00:52:32   understands your network but then the [TS]

00:52:34   next version will fold it in so if there [TS]

00:52:35   is a separate sprint phone I would [TS]

00:52:37   imagine in the version a thought they [TS]

00:52:38   would fold it in but Apple wants one [TS]

00:52:41   phone that does all these different [TS]

00:52:42   things do you think do you think then [TS]

00:52:44   that the letlet let's say regardless of [TS]

00:52:46   whether there's a separate version or [TS]

00:52:48   single version you know you're a guy [TS]

00:52:50   without an iPhone you've got you've got [TS]

00:52:51   a lot of iPod Touches render and yeah [TS]

00:52:54   you have no I phone because you we've [TS]

00:52:56   gone into this people I'll have to I'll [TS]

00:52:58   have to look it up but I forget which [TS]

00:53:01   episode of this show you explain why [TS]

00:53:03   there's definitely a difference I think [TS]

00:53:07   it was early on I'm gonna I'm gonna look [TS]

00:53:09   it up all we while we do this but it [TS]

00:53:12   would and that's a great show by the way [TS]

00:53:13   and your reasoning is excellent [TS]

00:53:15   was it frivolous things yes indeed [TS]

00:53:17   six about memory them Wow prosaic [TS]

00:53:21   reasons for not owning enough for John's [TS]

00:53:23   not owning an iPhone so I'll even put [TS]

00:53:26   this into the link I'll link back it'll [TS]

00:53:27   be a self-referential link to listen to [TS]

00:53:31   episode six of this show to understand [TS]

00:53:34   why john siracusa does not have an [TS]

00:53:37   iphone would what having an unlimited [TS]

00:53:39   day is unlimited data draw used to be [TS]

00:53:43   unlimited data back when I decided not [TS]

00:53:44   to get one before everyone got caps so I [TS]

00:53:47   do like the idea of unlimited but I [TS]

00:53:50   bought a 3G access for my iPad when I [TS]

00:53:52   was a wEDC and I there's like three [TS]

00:53:54   plans and I did that thing that you do [TS]

00:53:56   what is it called anchoring that [TS]

00:53:59   tethering now anchoring where when when [TS]

00:54:03   marketers want to make you buy a [TS]

00:54:05   microwave oven for 200 bucks they put [TS]

00:54:08   out a model that's 500 a model that's 99 [TS]

00:54:10   and a mild is 200 and that makes you [TS]

00:54:12   pick the middle whereas the doctor $200 [TS]

00:54:14   microwave you would say $200 it's too [TS]

00:54:17   expensive so they make a cheap one like [TS]

00:54:18   all I want to avoid that one and make it [TS]

00:54:20   super expensive one and they steer you [TS]

00:54:21   to the middle and anchoring is like the [TS]

00:54:23   $500 one and the $99 one kind of anchor [TS]

00:54:25   the range in your mind of how expensive [TS]

00:54:27   microwave should be and it makes it two [TS]

00:54:28   hundred one dollar one acceptable [TS]

00:54:30   whereas we just at a 200 dollar [TS]

00:54:32   microwave you'd be like oh my god this [TS]

00:54:33   $200 is too expensive or whatever [TS]

00:54:35   whatever product or whatever price it's [TS]

00:54:37   a common anything like that like yeah [TS]

00:54:39   big-box stores do anchoring is not just [TS]

00:54:41   for prices I think it's a psychological [TS]

00:54:44   thing where your expectations are [TS]

00:54:47   anchored by these two end points and [TS]

00:54:48   then the thing in the middle seems [TS]

00:54:50   reasonable so I got that happened to me [TS]

00:54:53   when I did pick the 3d data plan from my [TS]

00:54:56   iPad to it there was like a cheap plan [TS]

00:54:57   and then like a big expensive plan 11 [TS]

00:54:59   mil and I picked the one in the middle [TS]

00:55:00   because you know I'm human too yeah and [TS]

00:55:03   I really honestly didn't know what to [TS]

00:55:05   expect because I had never used an iPad [TS]

00:55:06   on the road before and I didn't know how [TS]

00:55:08   much data I would use I forget what it [TS]

00:55:09   was it was like who knew that it was so [TS]

00:55:10   so easy to viewers you were so [TS]

00:55:12   susceptible to these marketing weddings [TS]

00:55:15   yeah well you know it happens but so I [TS]

00:55:17   forget what it was maybe it was two gigs [TS]

00:55:19   or something like that but whatever I [TS]

00:55:20   was I use such a tiny fraction of that [TS]

00:55:23   granted it was only for a week but I was [TS]

00:55:25   on that thing all the time I watch Game [TS]

00:55:27   of Thrones i Netflix on it in hotel room [TS]

00:55:29   one night I mean [TS]

00:55:30   wasn't like I was trying to be bent [TS]

00:55:32   conserving my bandwidth and I didn't [TS]

00:55:33   even come close to using like 2% of the [TS]

00:55:36   dammit sorry [TS]

00:55:37   I don't even though everyone's capping [TS]

00:55:40   and stopping the unlimited plans unlike [TS]

00:55:43   my home connection where I really do [TS]

00:55:45   need to have unlimited biggest you know [TS]

00:55:47   I'm dealing like backup things that are [TS]

00:55:49   sending gigabytes of data up to the [TS]

00:55:52   backup services online I could burn [TS]

00:55:54   through my home bandwidth but Wireless [TS]

00:55:56   even if I'm watching TV shows I think [TS]

00:55:58   maybe I ever watch like 5 TV shows every [TS]

00:56:00   single day I would burn through it but [TS]

00:56:01   I'm not too worried about hitting any of [TS]

00:56:04   the caps so no I'm limited data is not a [TS]

00:56:05   draw for me which is tougher on the [TS]

00:56:09   backbone of the cell providers is it [TS]

00:56:13   tougher to do data or is it tougher to [TS]

00:56:15   do voice or is it the same is it in fact [TS]

00:56:17   isn't isn't voice converted to data and [TS]

00:56:20   transmitted the same way these days in [TS]

00:56:23   evitable everything will be converted to [TS]

00:56:25   data but for legacy reasons some [TS]

00:56:27   networks have separate channels for [TS]

00:56:28   voice it's not so I knew in in both [TS]

00:56:31   cases it's not as if you have to pay the [TS]

00:56:35   elves to carry your bits through the [TS]

00:56:36   voice network and pay a separate set [TS]

00:56:37   like it doesn't cost money to to push a [TS]

00:56:40   bits through they're not rocks right so [TS]

00:56:42   you have to pay for the electricity run [TS]

00:56:44   your equipment right and yes it does use [TS]

00:56:46   slightly more electricity when data is [TS]

00:56:47   going through it and when it's not but [TS]

00:56:49   it's not like carrying rocks or pumping [TS]

00:56:52   water that's why it's good to be a [TS]

00:56:53   carrier you know the equipment and the [TS]

00:56:55   infrastructure costs roughly the same [TS]

00:56:58   whether it's being used at 50% capacity [TS]

00:57:00   or 60% capacity but you get 10% more [TS]

00:57:03   money B if you're if you're metering it [TS]

00:57:05   right mm-hmm [TS]

00:57:06   so the incremental cost of carrying more [TS]

00:57:09   data is very small so that's what that's [TS]

00:57:11   how they make their money now they do [TS]

00:57:12   have huge overhead for all those [TS]

00:57:14   infrastructures you have wires and rooms [TS]

00:57:17   old machines and their electricity bills [TS]

00:57:18   have to be huge like but what a would R [TS]

00:57:20   in other words my question is is it [TS]

00:57:22   somehow more difficult or more costly [TS]

00:57:24   for them to provide unlimited voice ah [TS]

00:57:27   then it would be with data or is it [TS]

00:57:29   equally the same challenge the same cost [TS]

00:57:32   if they have a legacy voice Network and [TS]

00:57:34   all their voice data is going I don't [TS]

00:57:35   think anybody's at that case as you know [TS]

00:57:36   everybody at some point in the [TS]

00:57:38   transmission is going to probably have [TS]

00:57:40   that voice change into data because [TS]

00:57:41   there are peering agreements with young [TS]

00:57:42   people and stuff like that so I [TS]

00:57:44   days of having a separate analog voice [TS]

00:57:46   channel and then connecting to things [TS]

00:57:48   where it literally doesn't cost them [TS]

00:57:50   anymore where the wires or use or not [TS]

00:57:51   are probably gone this what they have is [TS]

00:57:56   this historic pricing structure that [TS]

00:57:59   separates voice from data and that is [TS]

00:58:03   something that people are used to and [TS]

00:58:04   they are going to lean on that to make [TS]

00:58:06   them as much extra money as they can [TS]

00:58:07   despite the fact that it becomes the [TS]

00:58:09   increasingly poor match to the actual [TS]

00:58:11   infrastructure so I don't think any time [TS]

00:58:14   you see a pricing move about voice [TS]

00:58:16   versus data there's I don't think the [TS]

00:58:18   this day and age is ever any actual [TS]

00:58:20   reasonable technological underpinning [TS]

00:58:22   for that it's all about what can we get [TS]

00:58:25   away with charging and how can we shift [TS]

00:58:26   our user base around in terms of who is [TS]

00:58:28   able and willing to pay more money for [TS]

00:58:30   what right nothing to do with how much [TS]

00:58:33   it actually cost them to provide that [TS]

00:58:34   service [TS]

00:58:36   eggless I get I guess unless you're [TS]

00:58:39   trying to ditch all your old hardware [TS]

00:58:41   like you're going to go to data only you [TS]

00:58:42   want to push everybody onto 4gb 4G [TS]

00:58:44   network infrastructure is better you [TS]

00:58:46   want actually burn your old stuff or [TS]

00:58:47   sell the copy or whatever just get rid [TS]

00:58:49   of the old stuff and just go all the [TS]

00:58:50   fiber or something then you could try to [TS]

00:58:51   push people towards your new plan and [TS]

00:58:52   there actually is a technological end up [TS]

00:58:54   reading for that but I don't know if [TS]

00:58:55   anybody is doing that I think these [TS]

00:58:57   infrastructures you evolve over time [TS]

00:58:59   it's not like you replace old [TS]

00:59:00   infrastructure with new one it's just an [TS]

00:59:01   evolution where you replace some old [TS]

00:59:03   equipment and put it some new equipment [TS]

00:59:04   on as you get a show about someone in [TS]

00:59:08   the telecom industry someone who [TS]

00:59:09   actually knows this stuff because we all [TS]

00:59:10   have questions about it but none of us [TS]

00:59:11   are really in that field yeah I was [TS]

00:59:14   hoping I was hoping you would know a [TS]

00:59:15   little bit more about it hmm [TS]

00:59:19   didn't you design antennas at one point [TS]

00:59:21   four so no well I did do a wireless [TS]

00:59:23   thing as my senior project but I did the [TS]

00:59:25   software part of it oh you ever did one [TS]

00:59:29   of those robot competitions where he [TS]

00:59:31   build a robot and they fight fight the [TS]

00:59:33   other robot no but wouldn't that be cool [TS]

00:59:35   you know what I would not like to enter [TS]

00:59:36   one of those with you as father and son [TS]

00:59:37   I would be the father they're a [TS]

00:59:40   father-and-son team yeah so you don't [TS]

00:59:42   know really do rather than those like [TS]

00:59:44   those bad you don't have a battle bots [TS]

00:59:45   and battle lots sure here not that kind [TS]

00:59:47   of had like the chainsaw but what they [TS]

00:59:49   do over in Japan where they do like [TS]

00:59:50   little Taekwondo moves or whatever [TS]

00:59:52   jujitsu whatever it is plane trumpets [TS]

00:59:55   and do fan dances yes yeah I mean what [TS]

00:59:56   you know but more like they [TS]

00:59:58   punch each other nonk each other down [TS]

00:59:58   punch each other nonk each other down [TS]

01:00:00   as opposed to the ones that we have here [TS]

01:00:01   in the US which is like this one has [TS]

01:00:03   like a bandsaw inside of it and this one [TS]

01:00:05   has a drill that flips the other one [TS]

01:00:07   over and you know stabs its underbelly [TS]

01:00:09   that's not as interesting to me is the [TS]

01:00:11   kind that's it's more like I just I [TS]

01:00:13   knocked the other guy down but somehow [TS]

01:00:14   that's more respectful so the thing I [TS]

01:00:16   always wanted to do as a kid was based [TS]

01:00:18   on this a Nova episode that showed a [TS]

01:00:20   course at MIT and it I think is [TS]

01:00:23   undergraduate course I'm sure it's still [TS]

01:00:24   there and the beginning of the course [TS]

01:00:26   you get a box full of parts and everyone [TS]

01:00:29   gets the same box below I've heard about [TS]

01:00:30   this yeah yeah yeah and then they define [TS]

01:00:33   a challenge whatever the challenge might [TS]

01:00:34   be like the November the Talon was who [TS]

01:00:38   can get their ping-pong ball at the top [TS]

01:00:42   of this this ramp that two-sided ramp [TS]

01:00:45   looks like a big triangle right and keep [TS]

01:00:47   it there or something so that both [TS]

01:00:48   competitors would they've got to build [TS]

01:00:50   the device that would start at the [TS]

01:00:51   bottom of the ramp and they would both [TS]

01:00:52   race towards the top of the ramp going [TS]

01:00:54   towards each other and they'd have to [TS]

01:00:55   drop their ping pong ball in between two [TS]

01:00:57   lines at the top of the ramp and prevent [TS]

01:00:58   the other guy from doing the same and [TS]

01:01:00   those are the only parameters of the [TS]

01:01:01   competition you're giving a box of stuff [TS]

01:01:02   there was like motors and chains and [TS]

01:01:04   gears and plastic and a machine shop too [TS]

01:01:06   to mess with it in and electric supplies [TS]

01:01:08   and tools and so on and so forth and [TS]

01:01:09   your finished thing had to fit within [TS]

01:01:11   some volumes on particular invisible box [TS]

01:01:13   and that was it and that's that's what I [TS]

01:01:17   would want to do because that is it's [TS]

01:01:20   kind of like if first of all it's [TS]

01:01:21   smaller scale nobody can get hurt it's [TS]

01:01:23   not that complicated don't have to build [TS]

01:01:24   like a robot ape or anything like you [TS]

01:01:25   can build anything you want if you want [TS]

01:01:27   to build a robot ape yeah or even [TS]

01:01:29   anything Kapil you with articulated [TS]

01:01:31   fingers and it's got a run on its own or [TS]

01:01:32   it's flying or whatever this you know [TS]

01:01:34   the rules of the competition for [TS]

01:01:35   anything you can build it can do this if [TS]

01:01:36   you want to build a giant crane right [TS]

01:01:38   now that moves over or you want to build [TS]

01:01:39   something that's really fast and shaped [TS]

01:01:41   like a wedge and shoves itself [TS]

01:01:42   underneath somebody you want you want to [TS]

01:01:43   build something that drills through the [TS]

01:01:44   platform and and you know comes out you [TS]

01:01:46   know whenever you can bill obviously the [TS]

01:01:48   other things are not possible because [TS]

01:01:49   all the parts they give you but everyone [TS]

01:01:50   starts in the same playing field and you [TS]

01:01:52   know you have to make good design [TS]

01:01:53   choices and then implement them well I'd [TS]

01:01:55   always want to take course like that but [TS]

01:01:56   I didn't go to MIT so I didn't get you [TS]

01:01:58   know we could we could do our own thing [TS]

01:01:59   here with as part of the show or we do [TS]

01:02:01   this well the best part of that course [TS]

01:02:03   is you do it when you're in school and [TS]

01:02:04   you don't have a job I think it's more [TS]

01:02:07   challenging to do if you do have a job [TS]

01:02:09   yeah say all right it goes but less fun [TS]

01:02:11   I think you get to more fun call in sick [TS]

01:02:14   from work oh so sick today [TS]

01:02:19   but they had like a whole semester to [TS]

01:02:21   the background you kids dad but robot [TS]

01:02:23   Freddie I'm sick I gotta go I bet they [TS]

01:02:26   have little kits like that for kids to [TS]

01:02:27   where they just give you a box of stuff [TS]

01:02:29   and you have to build something but they [TS]

01:02:30   really gonna erector set no like a like [TS]

01:02:34   a commercial leg learn I'm an MIT chorus [TS]

01:02:36   verse a you're having a kid's birthday [TS]

01:02:37   party you give everybody a box of parts [TS]

01:02:40   at the beginning of the kid's birthday [TS]

01:02:41   party at the end they have to see whose [TS]

01:02:43   thing can climb up the wall the highest [TS]

01:02:44   or lift a weight the highest or it's [TS]

01:02:46   kind of like a thing you do with eggs [TS]

01:02:47   where you drop them off the top of the [TS]

01:02:48   building right where you have to build [TS]

01:02:50   the device that will keep your egg cream [TS]

01:02:51   crapping cracking when it's dropped from [TS]

01:02:52   the top of the school that's very [TS]

01:02:53   similar [TS]

01:02:55   I'll be the grade school type of thing [TS]

01:02:56   where you get unlimited supplies like [TS]

01:02:59   construction paper or whatever and you [TS]

01:03:00   have to build something to protect your [TS]

01:03:01   we never had that in my school we did [TS]

01:03:03   what we did have was the thing where you [TS]

01:03:05   had to carry around a sack of flour and [TS]

01:03:06   pretend it was a baby and I'll tell you [TS]

01:03:09   what I have two kids know that that is [TS]

01:03:11   nothing like having a real baby yeah I [TS]

01:03:13   was so excited about having a baby well [TS]

01:03:15   you know look it's gonna be like the [TS]

01:03:17   sack of potatoes you sat down or you [TS]

01:03:19   know whatever but it's not like they [TS]

01:03:21   need things all the time they need food [TS]

01:03:23   and whatnot attention you know turned [TS]

01:03:26   out to be much harder than a sack of [TS]

01:03:28   flour Karen if you accidentally leave it [TS]

01:03:29   in your locker at school it's not a big [TS]

01:03:32   deal yeah couldn't leave it there if it [TS]

01:03:34   gets poked the flour starts to come out [TS]

01:03:38   did you ever do that no I'd seen it done [TS]

01:03:41   on television there's no fun trust me [TS]

01:03:43   you know what you don't want that class [TS]

01:03:45   I had one more mini topic LaDonna I love [TS]

01:03:48   it let's do it [TS]

01:03:49   this is kinda an article that was on Ars [TS]

01:03:53   Technica that I kept sending the Gruber [TS]

01:03:55   that I cannot believe he hasn't linked [TS]

01:03:57   yet my one of your articles no no it's [TS]

01:04:00   just an article it looks like it was [TS]

01:04:01   right up his alley this is exactly the [TS]

01:04:03   type of thing that Darrin fire wall post [TS]

01:04:04   and I'm sure he will eventually get to [TS]

01:04:06   it he has this strange I don't know if [TS]

01:04:08   it's like an intentional like doling out [TS]

01:04:10   of data or a period of time so it [TS]

01:04:12   doesn't get all bunched up or he just [TS]

01:04:14   has a really long backlog because [TS]

01:04:15   doesn't get to things but this was a [TS]

01:04:17   story by Peter bright about Intel's [TS]

01:04:21   three hundred million dollar initiative [TS]

01:04:22   to get PC makers to build what they call [TS]

01:04:24   ultrabook [TS]

01:04:25   have you ever heard that term before [TS]

01:04:26   Ultrabook all Ultrabook this is okay [TS]

01:04:29   this is what happens [TS]

01:04:30   hi oughtta gets basically gets killed or [TS]

01:04:33   whatever ultrabook comes up and he's [TS]

01:04:35   like listen I feel really bad about it [TS]

01:04:37   I'm gonna give you this little thing you [TS]

01:04:40   you hit this button you got it but you [TS]

01:04:42   gotta hide because people don't say I'll [TS]

01:04:43   show up I'll take over for y'all save [TS]

01:04:46   the world whatever you sort of go into [TS]

01:04:48   suspended animation but if I spend too [TS]

01:04:50   long on the earth I'm gonna start to get [TS]

01:04:52   weak and everything the Sun you have to [TS]

01:04:53   fly back out into space happened [TS]

01:04:56   probably going to happen a lot that's [TS]

01:04:58   not it that's different [TS]

01:04:59   No so then I'm unfamiliar with Ultrabook [TS]

01:05:03   is I know if it's intel's term or just a [TS]

01:05:05   generic PC industry term [TS]

01:05:06   it's basically thing like the MacBook [TS]

01:05:09   Air ultra poke is like a really thin you [TS]

01:05:12   know as light as it could possibly be [TS]

01:05:13   really cool sleek looking laptop so [TS]

01:05:16   Apple made the MacBook Air and PC makers [TS]

01:05:20   I've tried to make like a MacBook Air [TS]

01:05:21   look like so and so forth but Intel for [TS]

01:05:24   whatever reason is trying to encourage [TS]

01:05:25   PC vendors to to make something that's [TS]

01:05:30   competitive with Apple's laptops and not [TS]

01:05:32   just in terms of thinness and power and [TS]

01:05:34   stuff like that but also price and so [TS]

01:05:36   this story was the title of this story [TS]

01:05:38   you look up the yeah oh my god can you [TS]

01:05:42   fly my window so just this story was all [TS]

01:05:46   right so it's Intel's three hundred [TS]

01:05:48   million plan to beat Apple at its own [TS]

01:05:49   game they're trying to get PC makers to [TS]

01:05:52   make a laptop as good as the MacBook Air [TS]

01:05:54   uh and the interesting part of the story [TS]

01:05:58   is that historically Mac's have been [TS]

01:05:59   like more expensive yeah they're cool [TS]

01:06:01   and sleek and expensive and cool-looking [TS]

01:06:02   but they cost twice as much right so [TS]

01:06:04   here's a case where the PC industry is [TS]

01:06:06   thus far failed to make a laptop that is [TS]

01:06:10   looks as good as Apple's this is cool [TS]

01:06:12   and sleek and made of high-quality [TS]

01:06:13   materials and so on and so forth and [TS]

01:06:15   it's also cheaper which is is not [TS]

01:06:17   historically being the case usually they [TS]

01:06:19   can match Apple or if they don't match [TS]

01:06:21   up on quality it's like yeah well it's [TS]

01:06:22   not quite as nice as a Mac laptop but [TS]

01:06:24   stranger bucket cheaper [TS]

01:06:25   well that doesn't happen with these [TS]

01:06:26   ultrabooks and it goes into all the [TS]

01:06:28   reasons why like the PC vendors are [TS]

01:06:29   built on this idea that you have [TS]

01:06:31   interchangeable parts so for example the [TS]

01:06:33   Wi-Fi card there's like several [TS]

01:06:34   different choices for Wi-Fi cards and [TS]

01:06:36   it's not on the mother [TS]

01:06:37   word it's like a little clipping thing [TS]

01:06:38   so once you start sticking stuff onto [TS]

01:06:40   the motherboard then you can't make it [TS]

01:06:41   really thin anymore gonna make really [TS]

01:06:42   thin you got to have one motherboard but [TS]

01:06:44   everything's soldered to it you can't [TS]

01:06:46   put the 2.5 inch SSD in a MacBook [TS]

01:06:48   carriage small fit so you have to use a [TS]

01:06:50   disembodied thing and it's got to be [TS]

01:06:52   sort of custom-made of your thing so [TS]

01:06:53   everything Apple makes is custom fitted [TS]

01:06:55   to this case like if you look inside one [TS]

01:06:56   of Apple's devices it's not a lot of [TS]

01:06:58   spare room hanging around batteries or [TS]

01:07:00   custom fit so and so far whether the PC [TS]

01:07:02   makers they don't want to make a custom [TS]

01:07:04   battery they want to have you know an [TS]

01:07:07   interchangeable series of batteries they [TS]

01:07:09   can use in a variety of laptops because [TS]

01:07:10   they have 8,000 different models and if [TS]

01:07:14   you have 8,000 different models you [TS]

01:07:15   don't want to have 8,000 em kinds of [TS]

01:07:17   batteries because then you're your [TS]

01:07:18   economies of scale go down and you have [TS]

01:07:20   to deal with inventory management and so [TS]

01:07:21   on so forth so it's like the PC industry [TS]

01:07:23   is just not set up to make small [TS]

01:07:25   completely integrated everything exactly [TS]

01:07:27   fits everything is custom-made things [TS]

01:07:28   because even if it's a best-seller it's [TS]

01:07:31   not going to they stop so many other [TS]

01:07:33   products whereas Apple makes you know [TS]

01:07:35   two kinds of MacBook Air 13 inch and 11 [TS]

01:07:38   inch with a couple little details that [TS]

01:07:39   can change the inside but that's it may [TS]

01:07:40   sell millions and millions up the other [TS]

01:07:42   part of the store was that this Peter [TS]

01:07:44   bright was trying to look at to buy [TS]

01:07:48   himself a laptop that wasn't a Mac but [TS]

01:07:51   that was as good as a MacBook Air so he [TS]

01:07:52   goes to the various websites like [TS]

01:07:54   they'll calm and HP calm to try to build [TS]

01:07:56   himself one and he's fighting with those [TS]

01:07:58   websites I don't know if you ever gone [TS]

01:07:59   to them but like they give you this [TS]

01:08:02   strange way to pick what you want it's [TS]

01:08:03   like are you a home user are you an [TS]

01:08:04   everyday power user are you a [TS]

01:08:06   super-duper user are you you know are [TS]

01:08:08   you small-business special enterprise [TS]

01:08:11   users like just I want to pick a laptop [TS]

01:08:13   I don't know you know they make you come [TS]

01:08:15   in through these strange you know [TS]

01:08:17   divisions and you're always thinking of [TS]

01:08:19   screwing you it's like well if I go in [TS]

01:08:20   through the high-performance link [TS]

01:08:22   they're going to screw me but I go [TS]

01:08:24   through the other lengths because those [TS]

01:08:25   are the people have more money or the [TS]

01:08:26   enterprise people get cheaper prices or [TS]

01:08:28   they get more expensive prices or I [TS]

01:08:29   don't you know so you end up getting to [TS]

01:08:31   this big configurator thing that has [TS]

01:08:33   8,000 options and you can put this [TS]

01:08:35   screen in this laptop with this Wi-Fi [TS]

01:08:36   card and this thing and you know and [TS]

01:08:38   sometimes the options aren't clear it's [TS]

01:08:39   like what's the difference between this [TS]

01:08:40   screen and that screen why is this 50 [TS]

01:08:41   bucks more expensive it doesn't even [TS]

01:08:42   explain what the difference is just too [TS]

01:08:44   many options and the websites are [TS]

01:08:46   horrible and you never know if like the [TS]

01:08:48   machine you configured is going to work [TS]

01:08:50   well too [TS]

01:08:51   there if you've got the best deal or if [TS]

01:08:53   it would have been smarter to actually [TS]

01:08:54   start from a different model and upgrade [TS]

01:08:56   the CPUs and start for the better CPU [TS]

01:08:57   modeling it's just a horrible buying [TS]

01:08:59   experience so this is kind of the [TS]

01:09:02   chickens coming home to roost on the PC [TS]

01:09:05   industry we're finally pcs have have [TS]

01:09:07   changed so much from the interchangeable [TS]

01:09:11   box of parts that they used to be and [TS]

01:09:12   that was an advantage when your PC was [TS]

01:09:13   like a near PC XT or PC 80 case where [TS]

01:09:16   you could pick your motherboard but your [TS]

01:09:17   hard drive pick how many floppy drives [TS]

01:09:19   you want pick the the video interface [TS]

01:09:21   you want pick the case pick everything [TS]

01:09:23   about it and configure it and the PC [TS]

01:09:24   vendors were set up to have bins of [TS]

01:09:26   parts and build you your machine like [TS]

01:09:27   that or have a couple of presets and [TS]

01:09:28   switch things in and out but now when [TS]

01:09:29   things are really small and really [TS]

01:09:31   compact and become more like appliances [TS]

01:09:33   that's not an advantage to have to [TS]

01:09:35   assemble your machine from little parts [TS]

01:09:36   because it's going to look like a [TS]

01:09:37   Frankenstein machine if you want [TS]

01:09:38   something as skinny as a MacBook Air you [TS]

01:09:41   have to have custom-designed battery [TS]

01:09:42   custom-designed motherboard [TS]

01:09:43   custom-designed SSD custom screen custom [TS]

01:09:46   hinge custom case custom everything you [TS]

01:09:48   can't have share any of those parts with [TS]

01:09:49   me maybe you can share the keyboard [TS]

01:09:50   which Apple shares with the always [TS]

01:09:53   laptops which I think I've complained [TS]

01:09:54   about before the ridiculousness of that [TS]

01:09:57   same keyboard being on a 17 inch laptop [TS]

01:09:59   with those big empty areas around but [TS]

01:10:01   anyway I'll put the link in the show [TS]

01:10:03   notes I highly recommend people read [TS]

01:10:05   this it's kind of exactly the reason I [TS]

01:10:08   thought Gruber would link is because he [TS]

01:10:09   loves to make situations where previous [TS]

01:10:11   advantages of PCs and now are huge [TS]

01:10:13   disadvantages and especially stuff about [TS]

01:10:15   like you mean there's not a PC that's [TS]

01:10:18   this size and it's cheaper even if it's [TS]

01:10:20   a little bit crazier quality you know [TS]

01:10:21   people argue and they do argue in the [TS]

01:10:23   comments like well you can find one [TS]

01:10:24   that's the same price or close to the [TS]

01:10:25   same price but it's like well doesn't [TS]

01:10:27   have this it doesn't have bad or it all [TS]

01:10:30   it doesn't have this Bluetooth interface [TS]

01:10:31   but it does have this different video [TS]

01:10:33   card but this has you know DVI out [TS]

01:10:35   misses VGA out and doesn't have [TS]

01:10:36   Thunderbolts but you can kill yourself [TS]

01:10:38   forever trying to do price comparison [TS]

01:10:40   but the bottom line is that it used to [TS]

01:10:41   be trivially easy to pick any Mac of any [TS]

01:10:44   spec and find a cheaper one in the PC [TS]

01:10:46   business and now with the case of these [TS]

01:10:47   small devices is not and the same thing [TS]

01:10:49   with the iPad where where the [TS]

01:10:50   competitive tablets it's the same type [TS]

01:10:52   of situation it's a really skinny thing [TS]

01:10:53   with custom everything inside it we're [TS]

01:10:55   the tablets that are as fast as the iPad [TS]

01:10:58   and forget about software forget about [TS]

01:10:59   the fact that is is better than the [TS]

01:11:00   other OS is where the tablets that are [TS]

01:11:02   as fast as the iPad and cheaper faster [TS]

01:11:04   same price faster at a little bit more [TS]

01:11:07   price sure but you don't find ones that [TS]

01:11:08   are like well I can get you under half [TS]

01:11:09   the price is just as fast in my pad you [TS]

01:11:11   can't then of course the OS makes a huge [TS]

01:11:13   difference anyway even if you can find [TS]

01:11:15   an Android Tegra 2 thing that's faster [TS]

01:11:16   you don't want to use that over an iPad [TS]

01:11:19   I mean on paper and every faster but in [TS]

01:11:21   practice it's not going to be as nice of [TS]

01:11:23   experience so this is this is an [TS]

01:11:25   interesting turnaround from the history [TS]

01:11:27   of PCs HP getting out of the business [TS]

01:11:29   doesn't want to build pcs anymore and [TS]

01:11:31   the people who are building them Intel [TS]

01:11:33   has to throw money at them to try to get [TS]

01:11:35   them to build something that's [TS]

01:11:37   competitive with what Apple's doing it's [TS]

01:11:39   not a technology thing it's just a your [TS]

01:11:41   business is structure the wrong way [TS]

01:11:42   you're making us look bad and they're [TS]

01:11:45   like well how do you wants to [TS]

01:11:46   restructure our business we have to sell [TS]

01:11:47   a bazillion models because that's what [TS]

01:11:48   businesses want but and consumers don't [TS]

01:11:51   like a tough luck but if we make one [TS]

01:11:52   custom model for consumers and we make [TS]

01:11:53   it really cool and sleek and not enough [TS]

01:11:55   people buy them we just really take a [TS]

01:11:56   huge loss on that because we need custom [TS]

01:11:58   tooling all these custom parts just for [TS]

01:11:59   this one line of products for consumers [TS]

01:12:00   and if it's not a hit because it's eight [TS]

01:12:03   million other competitor products and we [TS]

01:12:04   don't you know stand out enough where I [TS]

01:12:05   was interesting and up or it's just [TS]

01:12:06   another Windows machine now we're going [TS]

01:12:08   to lose money on the deal that's why I [TS]

01:12:09   haven't made them not like they don't [TS]

01:12:11   have smart people and done out the [TS]

01:12:12   technology it just doesn't fit with [TS]

01:12:14   their with their business model and then [TS]

01:12:15   maybe that business model is going out [TS]

01:12:18   of fashion it may not be viable in the [TS]

01:12:21   consumer space for a long period of time [TS]

01:12:23   because like what's going to happen five [TS]

01:12:25   years from now when all laptops are [TS]

01:12:27   basically look like the MacBook Air [TS]

01:12:28   they're all skinny and custom and so on [TS]

01:12:30   and so forth like you as things get [TS]

01:12:31   smaller your ability to use to have [TS]

01:12:34   reusable parts across the line start to [TS]

01:12:37   diminish yeah I know I think they just [TS]

01:12:40   make all their laptops like my cuppa [TS]

01:12:42   garrison screw the business thanks but [TS]

01:12:44   that's that's the whole of the topic [TS]

01:12:45   about Microsoft fruits we'll save that [TS]

01:12:47   for another week I'll be a good one does [TS]

01:12:52   that mean we're done I think so how come [TS]

01:12:54   I never heard your your mic breaking up [TS]

01:12:57   did you unplug it while I was talking [TS]

01:12:59   that's what I do it's good for those who [TS]

01:13:03   don't know we usually edit it out [TS]

01:13:04   usually right about the 60 minute mark [TS]

01:13:07   at exactly 16 exactly 60 minute mark [TS]

01:13:10   John circ uses a headset mic which is [TS]

01:13:13   all he'll use because he has it [TS]

01:13:16   a posture thing going I he his thing go [TS]

01:13:20   out it'll go out it'll sound like crap [TS]

01:13:22   he'll turn into a transformer yun plugs [TS]

01:13:23   it plugs back in sounds great [TS]

01:13:24   and now he's gotten so good that he will [TS]

01:13:27   wait until the right moment right it [TS]

01:13:29   around the 60-minute mark when I'm [TS]

01:13:31   blabbing about something - no I do it [TS]

01:13:33   earlier than that how you doing [TS]

01:13:34   any commercial break I mute and well I [TS]

01:13:36   can unplug usually when I plug a [TS]

01:13:38   non-blue that's the part where you try [TS]

01:13:39   to ask me something and I plug it back [TS]

01:13:41   in here in the middle of saying right [TS]

01:13:43   John yeah well you make it you make it [TS]

01:13:45   look easy [TS]

01:13:46   yeah but we will do we will do that [TS]

01:13:49   Microsoft topic we need to did your sub [TS]

01:13:55   plug no okay you'll never know it's [TS]

01:13:58   muted when it happens okay here all [TS]

01:14:00   right every comic books not coming what [TS]

01:14:05   god but you watch the Game of Thrones [TS]

01:14:08   thing I do I missed one of the episodes [TS]

01:14:12   I'm catching up on it now it's a good [TS]

01:14:14   one it's a good series we're going to [TS]

01:14:17   talk about your we get to talk about [TS]

01:14:18   that cuz I know you're in large I did a [TS]

01:14:20   whole incomparable episode on speaking [TS]

01:14:22   of part of what episode I'll check that [TS]

01:14:24   one has that in recent one I they're [TS]

01:14:26   like three or four episodes back I don't [TS]

01:14:27   know it since I'm not in every episode [TS]

01:14:29   of the incomparable I lose track of what [TS]

01:14:30   so weird out that you're not this now [TS]

01:14:33   we're couldn't hand like they talk about [TS]

01:14:35   stuff they talk about comic books for [TS]

01:14:36   example and I don't know anything about [TS]

01:14:37   comic books so how could I be on kind of [TS]

01:14:39   quick episode I think it'd be need to [TS]

01:14:41   get your take on it whether you've [TS]

01:14:42   followed or not you seem to have an [TS]

01:14:43   opinion I enjoy hearing your opinions [TS]

01:14:45   about everything like example we should [TS]

01:14:48   do a show with here why you don't read [TS]

01:14:49   comic books [TS]

01:14:50   let's move put that down journaling [TS]

01:14:53   cares why take a looks alright so listen [TS]

01:14:56   we're gonna wrap this thing up if you [TS]

01:14:58   want to hear more from Jon and you [TS]

01:14:59   should you should follow this movie this [TS]

01:15:01   young man on Twitter at siracusa nosey s [TS]

01:15:06   IRA see us a [TS]

01:15:08   I'm damned Benjamin on Twitter you uh [TS]

01:15:12   you're also on Google+ but we don't we [TS]

01:15:15   can't share those URLs is instead of a [TS]

01:15:18   redirection you should set up a domain [TS]

01:15:20   but I don't do anything I Google Plus [TS]

01:15:22   anyway it's not you're not on Google+ [TS]

01:15:24   calm lead you to you know I think I'm [TS]

01:15:27   posting like three four things we [TS]

01:15:29   present there's great discussions on [TS]

01:15:31   there love that you can you see if you [TS]

01:15:33   want to go to my Google+ you should go [TS]

01:15:34   to Dan's illa calm that I was just [TS]

01:15:36   redirected because it the URL is so [TS]

01:15:38   preposterous [TS]

01:15:40   so can go to five by five dot TV slash [TS]

01:15:43   hypercritical / six and here the show [TS]

01:15:47   where John explains why he does not have [TS]

01:15:49   an iPhone I highly recommend that you do [TS]

01:15:51   that as well lots of other shows on five [TS]

01:15:54   by five you could go and listen to [TS]

01:15:55   people are always criticizing me saying [TS]

01:15:58   I do not cross promote the shows enough [TS]

01:16:00   that shame on me for not cross promoting [TS]

01:16:04   show so John what shows I'll let you do [TS]

01:16:06   what show should people go there and [TS]

01:16:07   listen to which episodes of my show or [TS]

01:16:10   which other shows on five by five goes [TS]

01:16:12   so my show you listen to every of every [TS]

01:16:15   other sound I knew you would say yeah no [TS]

01:16:17   I I would imagine everyone who listens [TS]

01:16:18   to me already knows about these but yet [TS]

01:16:20   you have to listen to talk show and [TS]

01:16:21   build and analyze and then for dessert [TS]

01:16:23   you should listen to back to work that [TS]

01:16:26   is B that is the trilogy plus Merlin [TS]

01:16:28   alright well thank you for crossed money [TS]

01:16:30   and I would I would also say you I'll [TS]

01:16:32   cross promote my own show the pipeline I [TS]

01:16:35   just interviewed Aaron Hill guess of the [TS]

01:16:37   big nerd ranch guy used to work it next [TS]

01:16:39   an apple worked worked for Steve Jobs at [TS]

01:16:42   one point [TS]

01:16:44   that's a good you listen I want you I [TS]

01:16:46   did I like that it was good he's a good [TS]

01:16:48   guy [TS]

01:16:48   good guy to come on the show all right [TS]

01:16:50   but that's it so we will see you again [TS]

01:16:53   next time don't forget to check out the [TS]

01:16:55   sponsors easy DNS comm / 5 by 5 and [TS]

01:16:58   mailchimp.com have a good week John [TS]

01:17:02   Newton [TS]