36: Wedge


00:00:02   this is hypercritical weekly talkshow [TS]

00:00:05   ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

00:00:07   the world of Apple and related [TS]

00:00:08   technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

00:00:10   so perfect but it can't be complained [TS]

00:00:12   about by my co-host John siracusa how [TS]

00:00:17   are you John I'm pretty good this is [TS]

00:00:19   episode number 36 we want to say thanks [TS]

00:00:21   to our two sponsors source bits calm and [TS]

00:00:24   sifter app.com who will tell you about [TS]

00:00:26   as the program goes on we also want to [TS]

00:00:28   mention the bandwidth for the shows [TS]

00:00:30   brought to you by Midas green tech [TS]

00:00:32   Virtual Private servers submerged in oil [TS]

00:00:35   get free bandwidth today at Midas green [TS]

00:00:37   tech comm slash 5x5 36 of these does [TS]

00:00:42   that make you feel just dandy dandy you [TS]

00:00:47   know people like a couple people said [TS]

00:00:48   they liked how you said submerged in oil [TS]

00:00:50   and now you're all self-conscious about [TS]

00:00:51   it so now it's like I don't like know I [TS]

00:00:53   try to vary it I tried you know you're [TS]

00:00:55   overthinking it now I'm afraid the same [TS]

00:00:56   thing is gonna happen with the [TS]

00:00:57   complaining part well it's going away [TS]

00:00:59   the oil [TS]

00:01:01   yeah but they complaining part is like [TS]

00:01:03   gonna read the new oil don't steal my [TS]

00:01:06   thunder [TS]

00:01:07   right how are you I'm fine [TS]

00:01:11   did you watch this Terra Nova no I have [TS]

00:01:14   that on TiVo although I tried to leave I [TS]

00:01:16   tried to remain spoiler free and like [TS]

00:01:18   muted you when you were talking about [TS]

00:01:19   that a couple minutes ago because I [TS]

00:01:20   didn't want to hit but I hear that you [TS]

00:01:22   didn't like it I assumed I wouldn't like [TS]

00:01:23   to it I haven't gotten to it yet I'm a [TS]

00:01:25   little bit behind okay yeah I did I did [TS]

00:01:29   watch the fringe but we should talk [TS]

00:01:31   about that maybe maybe maybe we'll get [TS]

00:01:33   to it I'm also glad to faith didn't pick [TS]

00:01:35   me as the mean person right one of the [TS]

00:01:38   one of the other go sketch guys those [TS]

00:01:40   live knows I was sweating that my [TS]

00:01:42   fingers are crossed like don't let it be [TS]

00:01:43   me don't let it be me [TS]

00:01:44   you know what no and I'll tell you I'll [TS]

00:01:46   tell you why you are it despite despite [TS]

00:01:48   the way that that you come across uh you [TS]

00:01:53   are actually quite a kind sensitive [TS]

00:01:55   person behind the scenes beneath your [TS]

00:01:58   Romulan exterior you are quite [TS]

00:02:03   compassionate you care about the little [TS]

00:02:05   people [TS]

00:02:05   mmm-hmm that's me what are we talking [TS]

00:02:10   about I had stuff prepared for this week [TS]

00:02:11   it was we were going to finish off the [TS]

00:02:12   Microsoft stuff then I was going [TS]

00:02:13   going to what's wrong with Microsoft but [TS]

00:02:15   the Amazon stuff has come along and [TS]

00:02:16   smushed that in my mind so I will yes I [TS]

00:02:19   will delay it me mind the mind smooshing [TS]

00:02:23   effects of Amazon yeah so far still not [TS]

00:02:26   getting lots of complaints about [TS]

00:02:27   Microsoft one or two people said they [TS]

00:02:29   could care less about Microsoft but [TS]

00:02:30   mostly no complaints in a few people [TS]

00:02:32   like that so maybe we will actually come [TS]

00:02:34   back to both tail into the Windows 8 [TS]

00:02:36   stuff next week and going through what's [TS]

00:02:40   wrong with Microsoft but the Amazon [TS]

00:02:41   stuff what's interesting enough that I [TS]

00:02:42   want to do that but I'm behind in amazon [TS]

00:02:45   stuff I actually haven't even watched [TS]

00:02:46   the whole presentation yet I've read a [TS]

00:02:47   lot about it ah but I didn't read I [TS]

00:02:50   didn't sorry I didn't see the entire [TS]

00:02:52   video I'm like halfway through it mostly [TS]

00:02:54   because it was so boring did you try to [TS]

00:02:55   watch that video is bad he's I saw you [TS]

00:02:58   tweeting where can i watch the whole [TS]

00:03:00   yeah and then I found it I'll put it in [TS]

00:03:02   the show notes link but like I dairy [TS]

00:03:05   like I'm surprised anyone left that room [TS]

00:03:06   alive I dare you watch this thing and [TS]

00:03:08   not be bored to death oh not not a good [TS]

00:03:11   presentation and I don't know why like [TS]

00:03:13   they had exciting things to announce and [TS]

00:03:15   Jeff Bezos Bezos in on Aaron's last name [TS]

00:03:18   he's a nice guy [TS]

00:03:19   personal he's got interesting things to [TS]

00:03:21   say but it just it wasn't the [TS]

00:03:23   electricity wasn't there I don't know [TS]

00:03:24   doesn't have the the Steve Jobs [TS]

00:03:26   magnetism perhaps it's not as so much [TS]

00:03:30   that it's also the people in the room [TS]

00:03:31   like they weren't enthusiastic about I [TS]

00:03:33   think it's just pressed so you'd hear [TS]

00:03:34   like camera and the SLR mirrors snapping [TS]

00:03:37   up and down you know that's right it [TS]

00:03:39   also has a shutter sound but it's it's [TS]

00:03:40   the mirrors you hear that but you [TS]

00:03:43   wouldn't hear people like people weren't [TS]

00:03:44   amped for these Kindles but just which [TS]

00:03:46   is strange because I know people who [TS]

00:03:47   really were and for these Kindle stuff [TS]

00:03:49   like there was excitement about this [TS]

00:03:50   announcement but those people were not [TS]

00:03:51   in the room right like when they [TS]

00:03:53   announced the the price you you expected [TS]

00:03:55   people to have some reaction to it but [TS]

00:03:57   and I don't know if it's because it was [TS]

00:03:59   already leaked and everybody who knew [TS]

00:04:01   what the price would be but it was like [TS]

00:04:02   drop dead sighs it was all jaded press [TS]

00:04:05   every announcement they made and he [TS]

00:04:06   didn't and that that hurt him he [TS]

00:04:08   couldn't you know feed off of that I [TS]

00:04:10   don't know it was boring presentation [TS]

00:04:11   I'm about I'm just up to the part where [TS]

00:04:13   they're and I was in the Kindle Fire so [TS]

00:04:14   I didn't but I want to talk about any of [TS]

00:04:16   us I think I have all the facts covered [TS]

00:04:18   I just wanted to see the presentation to [TS]

00:04:19   see how did it really go ah beside heard [TS]

00:04:22   different things so I but before we do [TS]

00:04:23   that we have follow-up [TS]

00:04:25   try to get through this quick I have [TS]

00:04:27   a bit of old follow-up Thunderbolt [TS]

00:04:30   follow-up I mentioned damage last time [TS]

00:04:32   that I got the Thunderbolt monitor [TS]

00:04:33   didn't I did you I don't think you [TS]

00:04:37   mentioned that I think you mentioned no [TS]

00:04:40   maybe you did mention it because yes you [TS]

00:04:41   were telling me to be wife your wife was [TS]

00:04:44   plugging into it you did mention that [TS]

00:04:45   yeah yeah yeah [TS]

00:04:46   and so I've got that set up now and [TS]

00:04:48   people are asking me what I think of it [TS]

00:04:50   it mean it works as advertised you plug [TS]

00:04:52   plug your air and do it with a little [TS]

00:04:54   thunder bolt cable and you got a full [TS]

00:04:55   fledged computer and so far no issues [TS]

00:04:57   with it really one time when we lack the [TS]

00:04:59   spacebar to wake the Machine up the [TS]

00:05:02   other monitor didn't wake up like the [TS]

00:05:03   big monitor didn't wake up and I didn't [TS]

00:05:06   really know what to do about that we [TS]

00:05:07   just had to restart the machine hmm [TS]

00:05:08   you couldn't detect displays go into [TS]

00:05:10   system preferences I couldn't get into [TS]

00:05:12   the windows they're all in the main [TS]

00:05:13   scroll in the main yeah so the menu bar [TS]

00:05:15   is up there and everything so how how to [TS]

00:05:17   do restart it then angels SSH and shut [TS]

00:05:19   down - are now come on where we are yeah [TS]

00:05:21   I do what people maybe not everybody in [TS]

00:05:23   the audience knows about this yeah I [TS]

00:05:25   know but if you don't I don't want to [TS]

00:05:26   explain I would like to explain what you [TS]

00:05:28   do is you go to System Preferences you [TS]

00:05:29   go into sharing and there will be a [TS]

00:05:31   checkbox that is called a remote login [TS]

00:05:33   by checking that you will be allowing [TS]

00:05:37   SSH connection so then you could go to [TS]

00:05:39   an another machine if you'd like and [TS]

00:05:41   that other machine could be used to SSH [TS]

00:05:44   into that box and then you can shut it [TS]

00:05:46   down using the watch shut eye a shutdown [TS]

00:05:48   command by itself or do you still do the [TS]

00:05:50   - Shh shut down - are now Oh to reboot [TS]

00:05:53   yes then want to manually boot it up if [TS]

00:05:56   you really want to feel cool you can [TS]

00:05:58   type sync a couple times in every turn a [TS]

00:05:59   sink sink sink semicolon shut down space [TS]

00:06:03   - our space now no I don't think we need [TS]

00:06:07   to sink these days yeah no right no it's [TS]

00:06:10   fine I wonder if the commands email on [TS]

00:06:12   Mac OS 10 I doubt it my horse just [TS]

00:06:14   hooked up to a do nothing command so [TS]

00:06:17   anyway I got I am Thunderbolt Display I [TS]

00:06:19   think I mentioned this last time the [TS]

00:06:20   only weird thing I've seen about is that [TS]

00:06:21   the Thunderbolt connector gets slightly [TS]

00:06:22   warm huh [TS]

00:06:24   which is a little bit creepy but we do [TS]

00:06:25   know that from previous things that is a [TS]

00:06:27   little chip in there and that I assume [TS]

00:06:29   is what's getting warm not hot you know [TS]

00:06:31   so the reason I bring it up is few [TS]

00:06:33   things I had two links from a couple [TS]

00:06:35   weeks ago that had never got - one was [TS]

00:06:37   for a PCI Express breakout box that [TS]

00:06:40   gives you three external piece [TS]

00:06:41   I express slots over thunderbolt [TS]

00:06:43   connection put a link to that in the [TS]

00:06:45   show notes it's magma express box and [TS]

00:06:47   the other one is Belkin has a little [TS]

00:06:51   breakout box that gives you three USB [TS]

00:06:53   ports a thunderbolt port so you can [TS]

00:06:54   daisy chain stuff firewire port and [TS]

00:06:56   gigabit ethernet port so it's kind of [TS]

00:06:57   like the Thunderbolt Display without the [TS]

00:06:59   display part so you can if you want your [TS]

00:07:02   air to have a whole bunch more ports we [TS]

00:07:04   were thinking like maybe they'll be [TS]

00:07:05   Thunderbolt to fire our connectors or [TS]

00:07:07   whatever but I bet these little dock [TS]

00:07:09   port thingies become more popular [TS]

00:07:11   because you don't just get a firewire [TS]

00:07:12   you if I were you can knit a daisy chain [TS]

00:07:14   thing and more USB ports and that these [TS]

00:07:18   were all from earlier in the month but I [TS]

00:07:20   never linked them so they will be in the [TS]

00:07:21   show notes as well so it's interesting [TS]

00:07:22   that we're finally seeing some [TS]

00:07:24   accessories go out this and uh for [TS]

00:07:26   thunderbolt and finally the iFixit did a [TS]

00:07:28   teardown of the Thunderbolt Display and [TS]

00:07:30   this is surprising amount of stuff in [TS]

00:07:32   there did you see that that URL no can [TS]

00:07:34   you please put that in the show notes [TS]

00:07:35   I've not seen that one it's in the URL [TS]

00:07:37   that they break it up and you would [TS]

00:07:38   think it's going to be a big display and [TS]

00:07:40   then some little printed circuit board [TS]

00:07:41   but there's a lot of circuit board e [TS]

00:07:43   stuff in there like well the big thing [TS]

00:07:46   in one of the stories is that he's kind [TS]

00:07:47   of subwoofer like it's got it's got two [TS]

00:07:49   speakers and a third one presumably for [TS]

00:07:52   low volume stuff it doesn't look like [TS]

00:07:53   much of a subwoofer I mean the cone is [TS]

00:07:54   not that big but it's got it looks like [TS]

00:07:57   it has more printed circuit boards in [TS]

00:07:58   this monitor considerably more than in [TS]

00:08:01   the MacBook Air and there's a little [TS]

00:08:03   power supply and once again I have [TS]

00:08:05   unknowingly bought a display device that [TS]

00:08:07   has a fan in it the good thing in this [TS]

00:08:08   case this is a reference to your plasma [TS]

00:08:11   television I didn't realize had fans in [TS]

00:08:13   it right you wouldn't use any fans man [TS]

00:08:15   well it's the noise but in this case I [TS]

00:08:17   did not realize that a fan until I did [TS]

00:08:19   the opposite thing the thing is totally [TS]

00:08:21   silent like you know and I don't because [TS]

00:08:23   then the air is on it makes almost no [TS]

00:08:24   noise and this monitor I had no idea [TS]

00:08:26   that was a fan of it so don't be afraid [TS]

00:08:27   of the fan it passes the Syracuse a fan [TS]

00:08:29   test I could not hear it it didn't [TS]

00:08:32   bother me maybe like in a summer it'll [TS]

00:08:33   get hot and start cranking up and will [TS]

00:08:35   bother me but so far not an issue but [TS]

00:08:38   seeing all this junk shoved into that [TS]

00:08:41   display as I tweeted earlier this week [TS]

00:08:43   makes me think the idea of putting a GPU [TS]

00:08:44   in there is not so crazy because already [TS]

00:08:46   a lot of stuff in there it's not just [TS]

00:08:48   one little circuit board in the display [TS]

00:08:50   it's a pretty big circuit board three [TS]

00:08:52   speakers you know the analog power [TS]

00:08:54   supply [TS]

00:08:55   I inside there it's it's very [TS]

00:08:57   interesting I like this new the new [TS]

00:09:00   Thunderbolt future that we live in I [TS]

00:09:02   approve [TS]

00:09:02   do you think you know for a long time [TS]

00:09:04   we've had us be it's been forever [TS]

00:09:06   and that has become the de facto [TS]

00:09:08   standard for pretty much all non I guess [TS]

00:09:12   you would say that you know things that [TS]

00:09:13   are not too high bandwidth it's it's [TS]

00:09:15   been the standard it's been what what [TS]

00:09:18   people use do you see a day when there [TS]

00:09:20   will be one type of connector for [TS]

00:09:22   everything and maybe it's Thunderbolt [TS]

00:09:24   but that whether it's a any kind of [TS]

00:09:26   peripheral mouse keyboard hard drive [TS]

00:09:28   monitor whatever that it'll just you [TS]

00:09:29   just plug it in and it just works is [TS]

00:09:31   that where we're headed is it them it'll [TS]

00:09:33   there's there's two things working [TS]

00:09:35   against that one for some things you can [TS]

00:09:37   say there's some sort of convergence on [TS]

00:09:38   a single standard or thing and those are [TS]

00:09:40   mostly things that have to do with human [TS]

00:09:42   perception so at a certain point you [TS]

00:09:45   reach the limit of human hearing [TS]

00:09:47   perception we're not there yet in terms [TS]

00:09:48   of audio quality because of the [TS]

00:09:50   compression and artifacts inside but [TS]

00:09:51   eventually making the audio quality any [TS]

00:09:53   better doesn't make a difference and you [TS]

00:09:55   would imagine that you would eventually [TS]

00:09:56   converge on some kind of single standard [TS]

00:09:59   for audio that is totally maxes out [TS]

00:10:00   human perception you're perfectly good [TS]

00:10:02   to go and then what point is there [TS]

00:10:03   having other standards you know this [TS]

00:10:04   bandwidth isn't a concern or whatever on [TS]

00:10:06   same thing with visually but for for [TS]

00:10:09   connectors [TS]

00:10:10   I think they'll always be a cheap low [TS]

00:10:13   speed one and another high speed one [TS]

00:10:15   simply because our appetite for high [TS]

00:10:16   speed will never be sated by any [TS]

00:10:18   particular technology like it's not as [TS]

00:10:20   if we're going to say we never need any [TS]

00:10:23   more bandwidth and eventually our high [TS]

00:10:24   bandwidth connector becomes cheap enough [TS]

00:10:25   to put in cereal boxes therefore this [TS]

00:10:27   will be the one connector I think [TS]

00:10:28   they'll always be the cheap low speed [TS]

00:10:30   more expensive high speed slit split in [TS]

00:10:32   consumer electronics now it could be [TS]

00:10:35   that our bandwidth requirements never [TS]

00:10:39   run out on the high end but they do run [TS]

00:10:40   out in the consumer space because the [TS]

00:10:42   only things we're transferring our media [TS]

00:10:43   that max out our human perception so we [TS]

00:10:45   say well I never need to send you any [TS]

00:10:46   more than like a an ADK HD movie with 20 [TS]

00:10:50   channels of audio and blah blah blah and [TS]

00:10:52   that fits over now what is now that she [TS]

00:10:53   blows BD connector so we never need the [TS]

00:10:55   high-speed connector but I don't think [TS]

00:10:56   that will happen in our lifetime so I [TS]

00:10:58   would say for everyone listening to this [TS]

00:10:59   at the time that you're alive there will [TS]

00:11:01   be a low speed and a high speed standard [TS]

00:11:03   for connecting your consumer electronic [TS]

00:11:06   devices [TS]

00:11:08   I'll more follow up the metro get some [TS]

00:11:12   feedback from Steve Holzer I'm prancing [TS]

00:11:15   his name right saying that one of the [TS]

00:11:17   reasons that Metro might be a [TS]

00:11:19   predominantly landscape is that remember [TS]

00:11:22   that Windows 8 also has to run on PCs [TS]

00:11:24   and of course PC monitors are landscape [TS]

00:11:25   hmm that made me think about the old [TS]

00:11:27   days with the portrait Mac displays to [TS]

00:11:29   remember those yeah those are great [TS]

00:11:32   I still see people at work you see this [TS]

00:11:34   lot if you work without a developers [TS]

00:11:35   they will buy you know whatever the Dell [TS]

00:11:37   monitors they buy you in and they're [TS]

00:11:38   rotatable and they'll rotate them just [TS]

00:11:40   to get the big long strip of code right [TS]

00:11:41   right especially if the Windows users [TS]

00:11:43   liked everything zoom to full screen now [TS]

00:11:45   they can zoom their code window which is [TS]

00:11:46   always black with dark blue text on it [TS]

00:11:48   on how these people don't go blind in [TS]

00:11:50   any way they will zoom that thing to [TS]

00:11:51   full screen in a big portrait display so [TS]

00:11:53   we know that actually that's a really [TS]

00:11:55   good topic for perhaps a future segment [TS]

00:11:58   on a show is is exactly the what you [TS]

00:12:00   just identified is the different styles [TS]

00:12:02   of people looking at at screens do you [TS]

00:12:05   prefer the BBEdit [TS]

00:12:07   style white background with dark texts [TS]

00:12:10   like a page of paper or do you prefer [TS]

00:12:12   the the more sort of hipster black [TS]

00:12:14   screen with colorful text on it [TS]

00:12:18   which of those is that's not hip studies [TS]

00:12:20   to be like terminal nerd but yeah well [TS]

00:12:22   no but today it's considered hipster [TS]

00:12:23   like if well if you don't observe you [TS]

00:12:25   have seven color texts you made [TS]

00:12:26   Halloween themed or whatever but that's [TS]

00:12:29   yes that is a whole other topic uh and [TS]

00:12:32   you know what I think it comes down to [TS]

00:12:33   is that a lot of these kids today using [TS]

00:12:36   the dark color background it's because [TS]

00:12:39   they're in the dark they're sitting in [TS]

00:12:40   the dark and if you have the white [TS]

00:12:42   background while you're sitting in the [TS]

00:12:44   dark at 3:00 a.m. writing code like [TS]

00:12:46   listening to that emo music then it's [TS]

00:12:50   too harsh it's too bright you can't look [TS]

00:12:52   at it so that's why they have the dark [TS]

00:12:53   background and then just a character [TS]

00:12:55   stand out and plus it makes them feel [TS]

00:12:56   like neo in the matrix the first one [TS]

00:12:58   people at work aren't sitting in the [TS]

00:12:59   dark those no that's why if you're if [TS]

00:13:01   you're in an office if you're in a [TS]

00:13:02   brightly lit for Larsson office like you [TS]

00:13:04   prefer then you've got to have the white [TS]

00:13:07   background I think topic for a future [TS]

00:13:09   show all right more follow up this is [TS]

00:13:12   this is a good one from by the way [TS]

00:13:14   someone in the chat room said it was [TS]

00:13:15   that Steve Holt is Steve hol zer I'm [TS]

00:13:19   sorry I don't know this is a good tip [TS]

00:13:20   for people writing in if you think [TS]

00:13:21   to be able to pronounce your name [TS]

00:13:22   putting some phonetic thing to give me [TS]

00:13:24   some help [TS]

00:13:27   speaking of here's Jonathan hello drew [TS]

00:13:30   PLO udre how this is a letter holder [TS]

00:13:34   yeah [TS]

00:13:35   this is a good letter very succinct I'll [TS]

00:13:36   read it pretty much word for word he [TS]

00:13:38   says [TS]

00:13:38   you're killing me John I'm dying it's [TS]

00:13:42   pronounced Mary oh it's not pronounced [TS]

00:13:44   Mary oh it's Mario i disgust none I you [TS]

00:13:49   know that's a northeastern thing man [TS]

00:13:51   what I replied it was like you grew up [TS]

00:13:52   on Long Island people say Mary oh yeah I [TS]

00:13:55   understand we all have our pronunciation [TS]

00:13:57   pet peeves my pronunciation pet peeve is [TS]

00:13:59   and I'll test this on Dan because you're [TS]

00:14:01   from Florida so god knows how I'm not [TS]

00:14:02   from Florida Adelphia whatever I don't [TS]

00:14:05   know you spend most I wouldn't when did [TS]

00:14:07   you move to Florida I would spent the [TS]

00:14:09   first maybe third of my life in [TS]

00:14:11   Philadelphia and it was more than enough [TS]

00:14:12   time for me to develop a Philadelphian [TS]

00:14:14   northeastern accent and recognize them [TS]

00:14:17   and in Florida everybody's from New York [TS]

00:14:18   anyway oh yeah alright so any South [TS]

00:14:21   versus my pronunciation quiz some people [TS]

00:14:25   how do you pronounce these free words ma [TS]

00:14:27   ry the girl's name ma ry as in to Wed [TS]

00:14:31   and m ER ry as in Christmas they're all [TS]

00:14:33   the same Merida they're actually they're [TS]

00:14:36   actually not all the same they are all [TS]

00:14:38   the same they're all related [TS]

00:14:39   let's read it through what's the first [TS]

00:14:40   one ma ry the girl's name mary ma rry as [TS]

00:14:45   in to Wed Mary and M ery as in Christmas [TS]

00:14:50   Mary C that's three words you did it [TS]

00:14:52   right what about wate our MMS that's [TS]

00:14:58   getting into more regional but I'm the [TS]

00:14:59   thing I'm annoyed with is well in words [TS]

00:15:01   that have distinct pronunciations they [TS]

00:15:02   don't have different distinct [TS]

00:15:03   pronunciations and to compress the [TS]

00:15:05   countries they just blend there's a good [TS]

00:15:06   I wish I could find this I've searched [TS]

00:15:07   for many times it was a good map of the [TS]

00:15:09   u.s. showing how many different vowel [TS]

00:15:12   sounds and different sounds there are in [TS]

00:15:14   the accent in different regions of the [TS]

00:15:16   country and what it showed is it showed [TS]

00:15:18   the current map as it exists now and it [TS]

00:15:21   showed the map over time showing that [TS]

00:15:23   the number of vowel sounds number of [TS]

00:15:26   distinctive Allison's only decreases in [TS]

00:15:28   other words the people who who say all [TS]

00:15:30   three of those words the same are [TS]

00:15:31   expanding to absorb the people who [TS]

00:15:33   differentiate that the differentiation [TS]

00:15:35   of Val [TS]

00:15:35   sounds is disappearing because it's like [TS]

00:15:37   a like a virus spreading across the [TS]

00:15:39   country of the language becoming you [TS]

00:15:41   know more less less distinctive and I'm [TS]

00:15:43   sure that's probably true compared our [TS]

00:15:45   language to like Old English or all [TS]

00:15:47   these things from centuries ago I'm sure [TS]

00:15:48   we've it's just that the overall trend [TS]

00:15:50   is fewer vowel sounds uh fewer [TS]

00:15:53   distinctions I don't know but I still [TS]

00:15:57   think if you're going to marry marry [TS]

00:15:58   marry you should know that you are [TS]

00:16:00   wedding a girl who is happy you can take [TS]

00:16:07   the test at home that should be read a [TS]

00:16:08   little more with the Marvel comic dust [TS]

00:16:09   and the marry marry marry test so yes I [TS]

00:16:14   apologize for saying marry oh I think I [TS]

00:16:16   said I guess a yahoo sometime people I [TS]

00:16:19   don't remember what I said I said I said [TS]

00:16:20   I didn't say yahoo I said Yahoo yeah I [TS]

00:16:23   would mostly blame that on around but [TS]

00:16:26   I'm proud of my Long Island heritage and [TS]

00:16:28   I wear my mispronunciations in that [TS]

00:16:30   regard proudly oh where else do we have [TS]

00:16:35   here something about CoffeeScript which [TS]

00:16:41   I should talk about it sometime but not [TS]

00:16:43   today it's taking a long time to reach I [TS]

00:16:47   why don't you read these notes I'll do a [TS]

00:16:48   sponsor then since you're obviously you [TS]

00:16:51   can unplug our first sponsor today [TS]

00:16:53   longtime sponsor source bits this [TS]

00:16:56   episode is sponsored by source bits [TS]

00:16:58   these guys provide software design and [TS]

00:17:00   development services for iOS Android Mac [TS]

00:17:03   and the web they're at the bleeding edge [TS]

00:17:05   of emerging technologies they've got [TS]

00:17:07   tons and tons of experience they've got [TS]

00:17:09   a successful track record building well [TS]

00:17:11   tested visually stunning world-class [TS]

00:17:13   apps and here's the thing this is what [TS]

00:17:14   I'm finding out a lot of time is that [TS]

00:17:16   there's people who maybe you're a good [TS]

00:17:17   iOS developer and you've got an idea for [TS]

00:17:20   an iOS app right but maybe you don't [TS]

00:17:22   have such a such a great set of [TS]

00:17:24   experience building the back-end [TS]

00:17:25   services that you want to power it maybe [TS]

00:17:27   you don't know how to do push [TS]

00:17:30   notifications for example who knows well [TS]

00:17:33   the point is these guys they can do the [TS]

00:17:35   piece that you don't know how to do so [TS]

00:17:37   maybe you're a developer but you're just [TS]

00:17:38   not an expert in every aspect of what [TS]

00:17:40   you want to build they'll build you the [TS]

00:17:42   other part or they'll build you the [TS]

00:17:43   whole app it doesn't matter maybe you [TS]

00:17:44   want an Android version of your iOS app [TS]

00:17:46   and you don't to learn what you have to [TS]

00:17:47   learn to do that [TS]

00:17:48   well go to source bits calm these guys [TS]

00:17:51   we'll hook you out set that fan to [TS]

00:17:58   follow up I think we can start on the [TS]

00:17:59   Amazon stuff now lot of Amazon stuff so [TS]

00:18:01   if you've been if you hasn't been paying [TS]

00:18:03   attention to this Amazon earlier in the [TS]

00:18:06   week announced some new Kindles there'd [TS]

00:18:10   already been a lot of news and [TS]

00:18:11   information about the Kindle Fire and [TS]

00:18:14   even shortly before the event news came [TS]

00:18:18   out about how much it would cost and [TS]

00:18:19   what it would be a long and short of it [TS]

00:18:21   is it's a it's a very similar hardware [TS]

00:18:24   to the the playbook it is a Android [TS]

00:18:27   powered but it is Amazon's own heavily [TS]

00:18:31   modified version of Android so much so [TS]

00:18:33   that the message is this isn't a an [TS]

00:18:37   Android tablet this is an Amazon tablet [TS]

00:18:39   don't worry about the OS that's there [TS]

00:18:41   just enjoy it use it use the way that [TS]

00:18:44   we've we've built it it is an IDI [TS]

00:18:46   designed to be a platform obviously for [TS]

00:18:49   reading but also for getting it to their [TS]

00:18:51   Amazon Prime streaming movies and and [TS]

00:18:57   and and really it's a great gateway to [TS]

00:18:58   buy all of the stuff that Amazon sells [TS]

00:19:00   that's digital and and and that was the [TS]

00:19:03   big announcement but they also announced [TS]

00:19:05   I guess it's called the Kindle 2011 [TS]

00:19:08   which is the essentially the updated [TS]

00:19:12   version of the Kindle that we all have [TS]

00:19:14   right now except with no keyboard there [TS]

00:19:16   is the Kindle Touch which is similar but [TS]

00:19:18   has a touch panel on it and and then of [TS]

00:19:21   course there are the existing Kindles [TS]

00:19:23   which are still being sold right and [TS]

00:19:26   there's a thousand Kindles that you can [TS]

00:19:29   choose from and each one of these I [TS]

00:19:31   think with the exception of the fire [TS]

00:19:33   comes in two different models one of [TS]

00:19:37   which has commercials essentially [TS]

00:19:40   advertisements that appear and a version [TS]

00:19:42   that doesn't and you pay anywhere from [TS]

00:19:44   12 maybe it's 20 or 30 bucks to 240 [TS]

00:19:47   bucks to get the one without the [TS]

00:19:49   advertisements that come up so did you [TS]

00:19:52   watch the presentation I watched about [TS]

00:19:54   half of it I thought was interesting how [TS]

00:19:57   he opened up with kind of [TS]

00:20:00   a some summary defense of e-books [TS]

00:20:05   that's what do you mean by that as he [TS]

00:20:07   sang a to review and to convince people [TS]

00:20:10   might not be listening here's why you [TS]

00:20:11   might ever want this thing called an [TS]

00:20:13   e-book like look I can look up a word [TS]

00:20:15   and I have lots of books in my pocket [TS]

00:20:17   and I had a little ad in the beginning [TS]

00:20:18   saying uh you know I'm technically [TS]

00:20:20   literate and I can use ebooks and even [TS]

00:20:22   you know like it was like reminding [TS]

00:20:25   people ebooks exist they are a thing [TS]

00:20:27   that people do people seem to like them [TS]

00:20:28   here's why you might like them so it's [TS]

00:20:31   still at that stage where you know we [TS]

00:20:32   wouldn't do this with an iPod where it [TS]

00:20:34   the fifth ipod that comes out they're [TS]

00:20:35   like you could bring your music with you [TS]

00:20:38   wherever you go it's really nice that [TS]

00:20:39   they're they're past the level of [TS]

00:20:41   explaining why you ever might want to [TS]

00:20:42   have a digital music player on two [TS]

00:20:44   levels [TS]

00:20:44   explaining why this particular digital [TS]

00:20:47   music player is better or whatever but [TS]

00:20:48   it seems like ebooks despite how far [TS]

00:20:51   they've come and they showed the graph [TS]

00:20:53   of like out and the e-book sales passing [TS]

00:20:55   paper book sales and all that stuff they [TS]

00:20:57   still felt like they needed to open by [TS]

00:20:58   explaining to people what the heck [TS]

00:21:00   ebooks are and why people might like [TS]

00:21:01   apply I thought that was that was [TS]

00:21:03   interested oh that was necessary but [TS]

00:21:04   apparently they thought they felt it was [TS]

00:21:06   necessary and they would be the ones to [TS]

00:21:07   know right um they've got the numbers [TS]

00:21:10   yeah so it the predictions on this were [TS]

00:21:13   pretty much on from everybody I remember [TS]

00:21:15   I described it a few shows ago as I [TS]

00:21:18   thought it would be a magical colorful [TS]

00:21:20   window through which you can give money [TS]

00:21:21   to Amazon and Marco was much more [TS]

00:21:22   succinct and he called it a vending [TS]

00:21:23   machine hmm for Amazon I think both of [TS]

00:21:27   those things were apt but the angle that [TS]

00:21:30   I got out of this this whole [TS]

00:21:33   announcement was slightly different it [TS]

00:21:34   comes back to one of the things that [TS]

00:21:35   we've talked about in previous shows and [TS]

00:21:38   that that centers on this silk thing [TS]

00:21:41   right let's talk about this so silk it's [TS]

00:21:46   not a great name I think we picked it [TS]

00:21:48   because it's like a thin but very strong [TS]

00:21:50   thread connecting you to blah blah blah [TS]

00:21:51   some marketing BS but the idea is that [TS]

00:21:55   when you are web browsing from your [TS]

00:21:58   Kindle Fire which is the name of the [TS]

00:21:59   color tablet thing rather than your [TS]

00:22:03   Kindle Fire thing making TCP connections [TS]

00:22:06   to the web server just like your desktop [TS]

00:22:08   thing does it is going to connect to [TS]

00:22:10   Amazon servers and Amazon servers are [TS]

00:22:13   going to get the web page for you [TS]

00:22:14   and then give it back to you like it's [TS]

00:22:17   acting like a proxy now if you just know [TS]

00:22:20   that about what's the point of that why [TS]

00:22:22   are Amazon servers faster they closer to [TS]

00:22:24   me seems like it's making two trips I [TS]

00:22:25   got a request Amazon servers that Amazon [TS]

00:22:27   servers got to request the page then [TS]

00:22:29   it's got to send the page back to me [TS]

00:22:30   that seems really dumb the key to [TS]

00:22:33   understanding this is I don't haven't [TS]

00:22:35   gotten up this part in the presentation [TS]

00:22:36   when I assume they mentioned it is this [TS]

00:22:38   speedy protocol SPDY that Google came [TS]

00:22:42   out with I think it was like it last [TS]

00:22:43   year or maybe the year before that it [TS]

00:22:45   was experimental then but it's it it's a [TS]

00:22:49   new protocol for the web instead of HTTP [TS]

00:22:50   and I don't know how much do you want me [TS]

00:22:53   to go into technically there's a why yes [TS]

00:22:54   yeah okay so of course so that when your [TS]

00:22:59   web browser requests a web page it first [TS]

00:23:01   makes a request for the URL that it [TS]

00:23:04   represents the page and it has to open [TS]

00:23:07   up a TCP connection say I want this page [TS]

00:23:09   and over that same connection it will [TS]

00:23:11   send back the server or send back [TS]

00:23:12   informations as here's the patron it's [TS]

00:23:13   going to have the HTML content right [TS]

00:23:15   right now modern web browsers will keep [TS]

00:23:17   that connection open and say well but I [TS]

00:23:19   know I'm going to have to request [TS]

00:23:20   something else because the page is just [TS]

00:23:21   the HTML text HTML still with image tags [TS]

00:23:23   and references to CSS and JavaScript and [TS]

00:23:26   also it's all this stuff that the [TS]

00:23:27   browser doesn't have those yet it's just [TS]

00:23:28   got the page it's okay here's the page [TS]

00:23:30   and it's filled with this crap [TS]

00:23:31   and then it's alright I'm going to need [TS]

00:23:33   that stuff so I'm going to make one [TS]

00:23:35   request over the same connection one one [TS]

00:23:37   request for this JavaScript thing right [TS]

00:23:38   but browsers if they just use one [TS]

00:23:40   connection be really slow so they're [TS]

00:23:42   they allow themselves to have I don't [TS]

00:23:43   know what the limits are in modern [TS]

00:23:44   browsers for like four or five or six [TS]

00:23:46   connections per domain per domain name [TS]

00:23:48   say okay I'll make one request for the [TS]

00:23:51   JavaScript file then I hope a new [TS]

00:23:52   connection and get this other javascript [TS]

00:23:54   file and I'll put a new connection and [TS]

00:23:55   get the CSS file then I'll open a new [TS]

00:23:57   connection and get this image now I've [TS]

00:23:58   got 50 other things I want to get most [TS]

00:23:59   of which are probably images but I can't [TS]

00:24:00   request them yet because as a flight [TS]

00:24:02   browser I will only open up six [TS]

00:24:03   connections per domain name or whatever [TS]

00:24:05   the current limit is used to be much [TS]

00:24:07   lower ease to be like two or three but [TS]

00:24:08   now it's higher and then it's got to [TS]

00:24:11   wait and say like the CSS has taken a [TS]

00:24:14   while to come because it's coming from [TS]

00:24:15   like you know I for whatever reason [TS]

00:24:17   takes a while that thing is hung up and [TS]

00:24:19   or a big image is loading and you could [TS]

00:24:21   be loading smaller things so you have to [TS]

00:24:23   you have six little workers to do your [TS]

00:24:25   things and also you have to open up six [TS]

00:24:26   TCP connections and there's a handshake [TS]

00:24:28   there and takes a little while to go it [TS]

00:24:31   used to be even worse before keepalive [TS]

00:24:32   was around it would close the connection [TS]

00:24:33   after I got a response then have to open [TS]

00:24:35   up another one so you burn up a lot of [TS]

00:24:37   your work on the overhead of opening [TS]

00:24:39   closing connections and you also are [TS]

00:24:41   limited in how much information you can [TS]

00:24:43   get because you only have a handful of [TS]

00:24:46   connections to work within everyone else [TS]

00:24:47   is just waiting down there all those [TS]

00:24:48   images in the rest of the page [TS]

00:24:49   you're not even requesting them you [TS]

00:24:51   could be getting them right now but you [TS]

00:24:52   haven't even started to ask for them yet [TS]

00:24:54   so speedy there are many many techniques [TS]

00:24:57   that have been used to get around the [TS]

00:24:59   speed is just Google's particular one [TS]

00:25:01   and if you go to the speedy white paper [TS]

00:25:02   that a link in the show notes it will [TS]

00:25:03   they talk about alternatives of HTTP [TS]

00:25:06   pipelining and a couple other things [TS]

00:25:08   what's the other one I should look at [TS]

00:25:11   the things like s TCP or SCP or [TS]

00:25:14   something like that anyway speedy uses a [TS]

00:25:18   single network connection and it it [TS]

00:25:22   multiplex is the data over that one [TS]

00:25:24   connection so it even though it only [TS]

00:25:26   lists a single connection it can request [TS]

00:25:28   a whole bunch of stuff and then those [TS]

00:25:30   things come back in pieces interleaved [TS]

00:25:32   with each other and the thing will and [TS]

00:25:33   and the protocol will sort out okay [TS]

00:25:35   here's a piece of this files but you [TS]

00:25:37   know it you don't you don't have to wait [TS]

00:25:38   for the one big slow file to come if a [TS]

00:25:41   little piece of some other file is [TS]

00:25:42   available it'll come over the connection [TS]

00:25:43   to it so it's lots of little pieces of [TS]

00:25:45   the files interleaved with each other [TS]

00:25:47   rather than being a queue over a whole [TS]

00:25:48   bunch of different connection so it [TS]

00:25:49   eliminates the problem of having to open [TS]

00:25:50   50 million connections it eliminates the [TS]

00:25:52   problem of having a queue of stuff that [TS]

00:25:55   you have to wait for to come back the [TS]

00:25:58   one the data is available it will be [TS]

00:25:59   sent to you no matter what it's a [TS]

00:26:00   two-way bi-directional connections they [TS]

00:26:02   can talk to each other over it and the [TS]

00:26:06   interesting technical additions to it is [TS]

00:26:10   that it's always SSL and it's always [TS]

00:26:11   gzip compressed and actually isn't gzip [TS]

00:26:13   yeah which are two things that are [TS]

00:26:15   optional and regular HTTP but they just [TS]

00:26:17   built it into this nice and look it's [TS]

00:26:18   best practice secure to make make it SSL [TS]

00:26:20   all the time and compression is a win [TS]

00:26:22   for a lot of the content we deal with so [TS]

00:26:24   it's always gzip compressed and they [TS]

00:26:27   have like special-purpose compression [TS]

00:26:29   for the HTTP headers where they're [TS]

00:26:31   compressing a message of a known type [TS]

00:26:33   like you're always going to have like a [TS]

00:26:35   content type header or content length [TS]

00:26:36   header there's certain headers that are [TS]

00:26:38   pretty much always there so they [TS]

00:26:39   massively compress the well-known H [TS]

00:26:42   EP headers instead of compressing like [TS]

00:26:43   you with gzip you can just make the HTTP [TS]

00:26:45   you know the content type header be like [TS]

00:26:47   header number one or something and [TS]

00:26:50   hetero not any know what the compression [TS]

00:26:51   is but you can imagine with a known data [TS]

00:26:53   set you can get huge compression so this [TS]

00:26:56   protocol invented by Google and actually [TS]

00:26:58   implemented on Google servers and in [TS]

00:27:01   Google web browser Chrome has been [TS]

00:27:03   around for a while I think was marked as [TS]

00:27:05   experimental or whatever but amazon has [TS]

00:27:07   adopted it now before I get back onto [TS]

00:27:08   Amazon with this I just want to point [TS]

00:27:10   out that the speedy thing is an example [TS]

00:27:12   of Google not being afraid to try to [TS]

00:27:14   make a better version of some sort of [TS]

00:27:16   ubiquitous technology most companies [TS]

00:27:18   wouldn't say you know what we could do [TS]

00:27:20   HTTP is is you know common in all but [TS]

00:27:23   why don't we make our own protocol [TS]

00:27:24   instead of HTTP it sounds nuts like what [TS]

00:27:26   it was like what do you talk what are [TS]

00:27:27   you what's next you can mix up instead [TS]

00:27:29   of tcp/ip you have a better networking [TS]

00:27:31   stack than that [TS]

00:27:31   you go back to NetBIOS so they they made [TS]

00:27:36   an entire and it seems like well that's [TS]

00:27:38   never going to work fine make your own [TS]

00:27:39   protocol it's like a little academic [TS]

00:27:41   exercise but no one's going to use it [TS]

00:27:42   everybody uses HTTP well Google happens [TS]

00:27:45   to have a couple web servers that you [TS]

00:27:46   might have heard of and used on daily [TS]

00:27:48   basis and they also have their own web [TS]

00:27:49   browser that said we don't really care [TS]

00:27:50   if nobody uses this thing we're making [TS]

00:27:52   speedy we're going to build it into [TS]

00:27:53   chrome and we're going to put it on our [TS]

00:27:55   web servers and when our web browser [TS]

00:27:56   connects to our web servers you will [TS]

00:27:58   have a better experience because it will [TS]

00:28:00   be faster now in our web server it [TS]

00:28:03   connects to another site it'll be the [TS]

00:28:05   same speed as everybody else but we have [TS]

00:28:06   a big advantage over other people like [TS]

00:28:08   you know if you use Safari to connect to [TS]

00:28:10   your gmail account it will be slightly [TS]

00:28:12   worse than if you use Chrome right and [TS]

00:28:15   that gives them a leg up on their [TS]

00:28:16   browser side and on the server side if [TS]

00:28:19   you use their combination their servers [TS]

00:28:21   seem faster like I could use Google Mail [TS]

00:28:23   or I could use some other mail service [TS]

00:28:26   but you know Gmail seems faster for some [TS]

00:28:27   reason we're at speed stuff helps with [TS]

00:28:29   that it's very bold and daring it shows [TS]

00:28:33   the confidence that they think they [TS]

00:28:35   can't and is usually true if some [TS]

00:28:36   standard has been around for a long time [TS]

00:28:37   you can probably improve Bronner pretty [TS]

00:28:39   well the problem is always like what [TS]

00:28:40   good does that do you if you don't get [TS]

00:28:41   adoption it's pointless well they have [TS]

00:28:43   enough adoption to make a significant [TS]

00:28:44   dent in their business by doing this [TS]

00:28:47   it's interesting to compare that to a [TS]

00:28:49   similar proposal where they want to [TS]

00:28:51   ditch JavaScript which is old and [TS]

00:28:54   creaking has lots of stuff wrong with it [TS]

00:28:55   and they say well [TS]

00:28:55   we do extensive amounts of JavaScript [TS]

00:28:57   development here at Google so we know [TS]

00:28:58   all the bad parts of it and let's make [TS]

00:29:00   our own language it's better than that [TS]

00:29:01   and we'll build that into our browser [TS]

00:29:03   more write our stuff with it and stuff [TS]

00:29:04   like that and there was a lot of [TS]

00:29:05   backlash from that maybe we should do a [TS]

00:29:07   show on that in the programming language [TS]

00:29:08   like so then trying to fork the web and [TS]

00:29:11   make a proprietary language they control [TS]

00:29:13   and people are all kind of upset about [TS]

00:29:16   that right you know if they just did it [TS]

00:29:19   on on their products and just did it in [TS]

00:29:21   their browser maybe they could take a [TS]

00:29:22   similar approach because but better [TS]

00:29:24   things are better in theirs even if they [TS]

00:29:28   only do it themselves they still have [TS]

00:29:29   the advantage that their products are [TS]

00:29:30   better because of it even if no one ever [TS]

00:29:31   uses it again but now here we are with [TS]

00:29:33   Amazon seeing the speedy thing and [TS]

00:29:36   saying you know better things are better [TS]

00:29:38   let's let's look into that maybe we can [TS]

00:29:40   use that for something and they decided [TS]

00:29:42   this would help them make their mobile [TS]

00:29:44   browser better because you won't have to [TS]

00:29:47   have your mobile browser to make a [TS]

00:29:49   million requests and grind through all [TS]

00:29:51   this stuff and actually if you a lot of [TS]

00:29:53   this performance that in like mobile [TS]

00:29:55   safari stuff the iPad has to do with [TS]

00:29:57   JavaScript but the network connections [TS]

00:29:59   don't help especially over bad network [TS]

00:30:01   connections like 3G or when you're when [TS]

00:30:02   you're on the move on a phone type [TS]

00:30:04   platform if you can make only one [TS]

00:30:05   connection that really really helps you [TS]

00:30:07   and if you don't have to wait if you can [TS]

00:30:09   interleave all the available data [TS]

00:30:10   through that one connection [TS]

00:30:11   it makes the browsing experience better [TS]

00:30:13   they also so Amazon is going to use [TS]

00:30:15   speedy and then what you're connecting [TS]

00:30:17   to is Amazon's ec2 Elastic Compute cloud [TS]

00:30:19   thing that they run all their stuff off [TS]

00:30:21   of and they provide as a service for [TS]

00:30:23   everybody else and when you connect ec2 [TS]

00:30:26   the application you're connected to [TS]

00:30:28   doesn't just proxy the stuff for you and [TS]

00:30:30   doesn't just you know translate to and [TS]

00:30:31   from speedy and the various HTTP things [TS]

00:30:33   and the other thing that they point out [TS]

00:30:35   is that you know once you get there I [TS]

00:30:36   see two servers we have gigantic pipes [TS]

00:30:39   the internet will get your data well [TS]

00:30:40   we'll do the multiple HTTP connections [TS]

00:30:42   that we have to do to talk to these web [TS]

00:30:43   servers don't speak speedy right [TS]

00:30:45   I'm wonder if they talk speedy to the [TS]

00:30:47   Gmail servers that would be interesting [TS]

00:30:48   if they do straight through for that [TS]

00:30:50   anyway they will also take the content [TS]

00:30:53   and tailor it for you so they're not [TS]

00:30:54   going to send you back a giant five [TS]

00:30:55   megabyte image if they know that that [TS]

00:30:57   you know it's a waste on your screen [TS]

00:30:59   they're going to trim that image down to [TS]

00:31:01   be the maximum resolution of your screen [TS]

00:31:02   and make the image much smaller at the [TS]

00:31:04   same time and they will also do caching [TS]

00:31:06   on top of that where if lots of people [TS]

00:31:08   are requesting a particular piece of [TS]

00:31:09   content [TS]

00:31:09   cash it and ec2 briefly and you know [TS]

00:31:12   it's it's acting as a caching [TS]

00:31:14   compressing proxy with a better protocol [TS]

00:31:17   and I think this is also happening [TS]

00:31:20   server side as well they'll also see [TS]

00:31:21   that like if everybody goes to a [TS]

00:31:23   particular web page immediately clicks [TS]

00:31:24   on this headline we will prefetch the [TS]

00:31:26   headline and have it start sending that [TS]

00:31:28   you know Chrome does that already if you [TS]

00:31:30   use just the chrome desktop browser and [TS]

00:31:31   you go to you know the Apple com [TS]

00:31:34   homepage and then you click on the the [TS]

00:31:36   main banner thing for the new iMac Brent [TS]

00:31:37   eventually Clau Rome learns that you [TS]

00:31:40   know I don't know if it learns but it [TS]

00:31:41   definitely prefetches other URLs or pre [TS]

00:31:44   resolves domain names and stuff like [TS]

00:31:45   that so this is not a new innovation for [TS]

00:31:47   them but the fact that they're pushing a [TS]

00:31:48   lot of this the server side is very [TS]

00:31:49   interesting and it makes a lot of sense [TS]

00:31:52   they pick they saw a technology that [TS]

00:31:55   speedy thing they could use they have [TS]

00:31:56   you know this this stack of services and [TS]

00:31:59   that's what they're they're leaning on [TS]

00:32:02   top of to make their browsing experience [TS]

00:32:03   better and perhaps it's because I don't [TS]

00:32:07   know what the hardware specs are and [TS]

00:32:08   detail or anything but perhaps it's [TS]

00:32:09   because without this their browser would [TS]

00:32:11   seem slow so it remains to be seen if [TS]

00:32:12   there's like this may be they may be [TS]

00:32:14   compensating for something [TS]

00:32:16   we can't tell because it you have to [TS]

00:32:17   think of someone using this and see what [TS]

00:32:19   it's really like but technologically [TS]

00:32:21   speaking its it's a great move to do [TS]

00:32:25   this but the interesting thing [TS]

00:32:26   competitively about it as well want one [TS]

00:32:28   they're pulling this thing from Google [TS]

00:32:29   but the second is that they're [TS]

00:32:32   leveraging their strengths their Amazon [TS]

00:32:34   strengths technology wise like in terms [TS]

00:32:36   of fielding a technology product not as [TS]

00:32:38   like selling stuff is obviously great at [TS]

00:32:39   that is their data center operations [TS]

00:32:42   sort of like Google you know when we [TS]

00:32:43   talked about what Apple was doing in its [TS]

00:32:45   data centers and how it was using third [TS]

00:32:47   party opportunities and third party [TS]

00:32:49   products instead of rolling everything [TS]

00:32:50   on its own like Google and Amazon same [TS]

00:32:52   to Amazon has built a huge business [TS]

00:32:53   about these cloud services right and [TS]

00:32:55   they they're on dog food and they use [TS]

00:32:57   them this that this is their strength [TS]

00:33:00   this is somewhere where Apple can't [TS]

00:33:02   compete with them Apple which I have to [TS]

00:33:03   think is in their sights is a big [TS]

00:33:04   competitor Apple is not strong in this [TS]

00:33:06   area and I remember we were talking [TS]

00:33:08   about Apple's iCloud things I said it [TS]

00:33:10   was hard to imagine a future where data [TS]

00:33:12   center operations aren't a really [TS]

00:33:15   important part of what any technology [TS]

00:33:17   company does right right and and you [TS]

00:33:20   know and you don't outsource your core [TS]

00:33:21   competency right so it seems [TS]

00:33:23   like Apple understands the cloud [TS]

00:33:24   computing is important like everything I [TS]

00:33:25   said about iCloud was like yes fine [TS]

00:33:27   they're getting it the cloud is [TS]

00:33:28   important syncing blah blah blah stuff [TS]

00:33:29   like that and it's too bad we didn't get [TS]

00:33:30   to the metro cloud stuff yet but similar [TS]

00:33:33   story there uh and in other things that [TS]

00:33:36   it does Apple really wants to control [TS]

00:33:38   the whole stack they want they want to [TS]

00:33:39   control Mac os10 and iOS from from the [TS]

00:33:41   compiler all the way up like that name [TS]

00:33:43   it like using GCC no we have our own [TS]

00:33:44   compiler we got our own language got our [TS]

00:33:46   own stack we control the entire software [TS]

00:33:48   stack but an iCloud they're like well we [TS]

00:33:51   can let some people have huge portions [TS]

00:33:53   that stack our arse not just hardware [TS]

00:33:55   but software written by other companies [TS]

00:33:57   really important parts of it is like [TS]

00:33:58   well we'll let as your handle this and [TS]

00:34:00   we use this for CDN 'm you know whatever [TS]

00:34:02   again it's still speculation it's what [TS]

00:34:04   they're actually using because apples [TS]

00:34:05   never gonna come out and tell you what [TS]

00:34:07   they're using but I would imagine if [TS]

00:34:08   they had something great to say about [TS]

00:34:10   they would but even if they were writing [TS]

00:34:12   it all in-house what Amazon does [TS]

00:34:14   fielding it as a product it really [TS]

00:34:17   really makes your services better if you [TS]

00:34:20   if you have something to use internally [TS]

00:34:21   it's usually it can only get so good but [TS]

00:34:23   once you have to start giving it the [TS]

00:34:24   customers that really makes your product [TS]

00:34:26   better particularly when it comes to [TS]

00:34:27   software because you're willing to put [TS]

00:34:28   up a lot of stuff when you write your [TS]

00:34:29   software internally but once you start [TS]

00:34:31   giving it the customers they have higher [TS]

00:34:33   standards than you do so it is really [TS]

00:34:36   smart of Amazon to sort of hit Apple [TS]

00:34:38   where it can't hit back all right [TS]

00:34:40   they didn't as many other people point [TS]

00:34:41   out they didn't say that the Kindle Fire [TS]

00:34:43   is like an app platform where they're [TS]

00:34:45   gonna have a big app store like they [TS]

00:34:46   didn't do it all the Android tablets did [TS]

00:34:48   we're exactly like the iPad we have an [TS]

00:34:50   app store we guys you know developers [TS]

00:34:52   come make your apps play Angry Birds you [TS]

00:34:53   know read your news watch your movies [TS]

00:34:56   stuff like that they are leveraging [TS]

00:34:59   their strengths which are different than [TS]

00:35:01   Apple strengths that the places where [TS]

00:35:03   Apple is weak to their data center [TS]

00:35:04   operation is that the huge variety of [TS]

00:35:05   content they have where Apple's not a [TS]

00:35:07   weak there but Amazon is stronger [TS]

00:35:08   arguably and they're valuing the [TS]

00:35:11   purchase price over the quality the [TS]

00:35:14   design quality of the product not that [TS]

00:35:15   they're bad looking or anything but [TS]

00:35:16   they're they're not even saying look at [TS]

00:35:18   this beautiful tablet doesn't it look [TS]

00:35:19   awesome isn't it better than a not it's [TS]

00:35:21   look how low our prices are yeah and [TS]

00:35:24   we're going to get this into a lot of [TS]

00:35:25   people's hands and when I got finally [TS]

00:35:28   got to the point when the fire was [TS]

00:35:29   introduced in the little key know when [TS]

00:35:31   when the CEO of Amazon Amazon whose name [TS]

00:35:34   I can't last name I can't pronounce [TS]

00:35:35   correctly [TS]

00:35:37   builds up to pulling out the fire and [TS]

00:35:40   saying look at our tablet it's great [TS]

00:35:41   over everything he's showing a slide [TS]

00:35:43   containing a huge menagerie of [TS]

00:35:45   name-brand services that Apple Apple [TS]

00:35:48   that Amazon provides it was like Amazon [TS]

00:35:50   Prime ec2 Amazon Web Services I don't [TS]

00:35:53   know if he had s3 up there it and he was [TS]

00:35:56   like how can we make a product that that [TS]

00:35:58   builds on all the and what he's saying [TS]

00:36:00   is how can we make a product that builds [TS]

00:36:01   on our services like we have great cloud [TS]

00:36:04   services we want a product to unify and [TS]

00:36:08   expose them and that's a very different [TS]

00:36:11   angle than Apple or any other hardware [TS]

00:36:13   makers coming out of Apple's not saying [TS]

00:36:14   we have these great network services how [TS]

00:36:15   can we get them to you they're saying we [TS]

00:36:16   have this great hardware product and [TS]

00:36:18   through it we'll make some stuff for you [TS]

00:36:20   to do with it like you buy from a store [TS]

00:36:21   and we'll make this iCloud thing to sync [TS]

00:36:22   your stuff like it's the the cart and [TS]

00:36:25   the horse are reversed in both of these [TS]

00:36:26   situations here so it's fascinating to [TS]

00:36:28   see a network cloud I hate st. cloud but [TS]

00:36:32   I don't have another good name for a [TS]

00:36:33   cloud services company saying that's [TS]

00:36:36   what we're going to build on it and [TS]

00:36:37   we're all focusing on like all the [TS]

00:36:39   Amazon's gonna be a way for you to buy [TS]

00:36:40   stuff and it is and that's entirely true [TS]

00:36:41   that's I'm not discounting I'm just not [TS]

00:36:43   talking about it because it seems [TS]

00:36:44   obvious at this point but the the [TS]

00:36:46   interest more interesting point from [TS]

00:36:47   this presentation that I came away was [TS]

00:36:49   they are building on their services kind [TS]

00:36:51   of in a way that Google does although [TS]

00:36:52   Google doesn't pimp their services [TS]

00:36:54   individually but like that's what the N [TS]

00:36:57   makes it's bad for Apple I think because [TS]

00:36:59   there are two big competitors Google and [TS]

00:37:02   Amazon both have strengths in this area [TS]

00:37:06   that Apple is weak and the two of them [TS]

00:37:09   took years and years and years and years [TS]

00:37:11   to get those strengths you can't get [TS]

00:37:13   them overnight you can't hire a bunch of [TS]

00:37:14   people and get that strength the same [TS]

00:37:16   way that Google can't hire like couple [TS]

00:37:17   of designers and have like oh now now we [TS]

00:37:19   can make hardware and software as well [TS]

00:37:20   as Apple to be able to design hardware [TS]

00:37:23   as well as Apple it takes decades uh you [TS]

00:37:26   can't just get that overnight and in the [TS]

00:37:27   same way I think Apple is really really [TS]

00:37:29   behind on this cloud stuff and it seems [TS]

00:37:32   to become becoming increasingly [TS]

00:37:34   important the next thing I have in here [TS]

00:37:39   is a link from our friend Horus Horus [TS]

00:37:42   Java a tsimko com [TS]

00:37:44   yeah co-host of critical path here on [TS]

00:37:47   this very show very Network rather [TS]

00:37:49   I haven't listened to his latest episode [TS]

00:37:51   yet because I'm behind so maybe talked [TS]

00:37:52   about those buddy just posted something [TS]

00:37:54   today it was great it was the case [TS]

00:37:56   against the Kindle as a low-end tablet [TS]

00:37:58   disruption mmm we didn't talk about that [TS]

00:38:00   very much so he's what he's discussing [TS]

00:38:04   is that low price that I was talked [TS]

00:38:05   about obviously Canton Amazon strategy [TS]

00:38:07   is get the price down get this thing [TS]

00:38:09   into people's hands [TS]

00:38:10   and the model is we make money on the [TS]

00:38:13   blades now on the razor so here's your [TS]

00:38:14   razor use this thing to buy stuff from [TS]

00:38:17   us in that look than that perspective is [TS]

00:38:21   like well how does all the speedy stuff [TS]

00:38:23   we just talked about is this silk [TS]

00:38:24   business play into that it plays into it [TS]

00:38:28   I guess if you're using the amazon.com [TS]

00:38:29   website through your tablet to buy stuff [TS]

00:38:32   and that doesn't hurt it plays into it [TS]

00:38:37   in a way from that Chris Espinosa [TS]

00:38:38   article I'll talk about in a little a [TS]

00:38:40   minute but that's that's well what do [TS]

00:38:42   you think John what do you think they're [TS]

00:38:43   making on this thing when they sell it [TS]

00:38:45   so that was Horace this point the Horace [TS]

00:38:47   point is that if you look at this device [TS]

00:38:48   and look at their pricing doesn't seem [TS]

00:38:50   like they have much big margins like [TS]

00:38:53   certainly not Apple size margins you [TS]

00:38:54   know 30% 40% note like they're not these [TS]

00:38:59   are not big margins because as many [TS]

00:39:00   people pointed out as you talked about [TS]

00:39:01   with Gruber that people seem to think [TS]

00:39:03   that the hardware is very similar to the [TS]

00:39:04   PlayBook hardware and a playbook was way [TS]

00:39:06   more expensive than the fire even if [TS]

00:39:09   it's like fire sale haha fire sale [TS]

00:39:11   prices from the vendor was like we got [TS]

00:39:13   all this stuff we were supposed to make [TS]

00:39:14   play books and that's not quite working [TS]

00:39:15   out so we'll give it to you at a [TS]

00:39:17   discount but it you and it's seven-inch [TS]

00:39:19   instead of a tinge tablet so it's not [TS]

00:39:20   the same price as an iPad because the [TS]

00:39:22   screen is less expensive and you know [TS]

00:39:24   and has less memory everything about it [TS]

00:39:26   but if if they're not losing money on [TS]

00:39:30   these things [TS]

00:39:30   the margins are really really small [TS]

00:39:32   right so Horace's point is that if you [TS]

00:39:34   have a really low margin product and [TS]

00:39:37   you're going to make your money back by [TS]

00:39:38   selling the the blades you're but [TS]

00:39:41   selling the books movies whatever it is [TS]

00:39:44   that's where you plan to get your money [TS]

00:39:46   in your whole strategy is give everybody [TS]

00:39:47   this thing through which they can buy [TS]

00:39:49   stuff from us it takes a long time to [TS]

00:39:51   make the money back even if you're not [TS]

00:39:55   taking a lot so it's like to make you [TS]

00:39:56   know Apple as soon as it sells you an [TS]

00:39:57   iPad gets the whatever 30% margin on the [TS]

00:39:59   $500 product right how long does it take [TS]

00:40:02   to make that same amount of money [TS]

00:40:03   by selling $0.99 book on 99 cent books [TS]

00:40:07   99 cent songs or $9 books and you have [TS]

00:40:09   to give some portion of the money to the [TS]

00:40:10   artist you know as a retailer it's [TS]

00:40:13   harder to make money if you look at what [TS]

00:40:14   Apple Apple does a pretty good business [TS]

00:40:16   retailing digital media but that's not [TS]

00:40:19   making them their money they they say [TS]

00:40:21   well we run our music store like around [TS]

00:40:22   break-even like they're making money but [TS]

00:40:24   it's not big big money yeah but Apple [TS]

00:40:26   makes big pink money selling you those [TS]

00:40:28   computers those Mac books and those [TS]

00:40:30   iPads and they make it as soon as you [TS]

00:40:32   buy it you buy that iPad boom that's [TS]

00:40:34   their profit right in their pocket they [TS]

00:40:35   don't have to wait to see what the [TS]

00:40:37   attach rate will be which is how much [TS]

00:40:39   stuff you buy that's a term from [TS]

00:40:40   videogame industry I think that use it [TS]

00:40:42   elsewhere how much other stuff will you [TS]

00:40:43   buy for how many games will you buy when [TS]

00:40:44   you buy your console I know the other [TS]

00:40:46   example that Horus use in the Articles [TS]

00:40:48   game consoles game consoles have a [TS]

00:40:50   similar model where they sell you the [TS]

00:40:53   game console either at a loss sometimes [TS]

00:40:55   at a big loss or it just barely break [TS]

00:40:58   even [TS]

00:40:58   the only exception in that world is [TS]

00:41:00   Nintendo which has historically sold his [TS]

00:41:02   console its consoles never at a loss at [TS]

00:41:04   a small profit or whatever but then for [TS]

00:41:08   the people who do sell it at a loss or [TS]

00:41:09   whatever to make your money you can say [TS]

00:41:11   oh I gotta sell this guy a lot of games [TS]

00:41:12   because the margins on games are great I [TS]

00:41:14   just gotta print a CD or DVD or even [TS]

00:41:17   cartridges you know and we make huge [TS]

00:41:19   margins on the games so we want to sell [TS]

00:41:21   as many games as possible and what that [TS]

00:41:23   means is you have to keep that console [TS]

00:41:25   in the market for years because the [TS]

00:41:27   longer you keep that console in the [TS]

00:41:28   market a the cheaper it gets to make so [TS]

00:41:30   in your first or second year yeah of the [TS]

00:41:32   thing maybe you're taking a loss of [TS]

00:41:33   breaking even but in your third fourth [TS]

00:41:34   and fifth year it's become you know [TS]

00:41:36   technology event has advanced to the [TS]

00:41:37   point where now you can make that same [TS]

00:41:38   console way way cheaper sometimes as the [TS]

00:41:41   case in Sony they reduce the number of [TS]

00:41:43   chips until the entire consoles down to [TS]

00:41:44   like one chip after it's been in the [TS]

00:41:47   market for years like a Sony start [TS]

00:41:48   introducing the slim versions of the [TS]

00:41:50   PlayStation 2 PlayStation 3 it's because [TS]

00:41:51   they can make it even cheaper fewer [TS]

00:41:53   chips smaller size lower power more [TS]

00:41:55   reliable their margins on that hardware [TS]

00:41:59   are going up finally but you have to [TS]

00:42:01   leave it in the market for years and [TS]

00:42:02   during that time you know PC gamers and [TS]

00:42:04   everybody else that technology has [TS]

00:42:05   advanced so game the game consoles are [TS]

00:42:07   old and slow or whatever but the reason [TS]

00:42:09   they're left in the market for so long [TS]

00:42:10   is because they need that they need to [TS]

00:42:11   make their money back like they took you [TS]

00:42:13   know $50 loss and every single [TS]

00:42:14   PlayStation 3 they sold and they sold [TS]

00:42:16   millions of munch [TS]

00:42:17   it takes a long time to make that money [TS]

00:42:18   back and then you get into the fat part [TS]

00:42:20   where you're like now finally we really [TS]

00:42:22   cranked I'm really making profit those [TS]

00:42:23   these Playstations are so cheap for us [TS]

00:42:25   to make we sell them we still get like [TS]

00:42:26   40% margins but selling these cheap [TS]

00:42:28   PlayStation twos but in slim model and [TS]

00:42:30   and people are buying games like crazy [TS]

00:42:33   or developers who've really figured out [TS]

00:42:34   how to make games like they want to stay [TS]

00:42:36   in that fat profit zone for the longest [TS]

00:42:38   possible time but what it means is that [TS]

00:42:41   the products don't get better that fast [TS]

00:42:42   now compare this to Apple where Apple [TS]

00:42:44   makes its money by making you the better [TS]

00:42:46   product they they put out the iPad one [TS]

00:42:49   and they're not like let's let the iPad [TS]

00:42:51   one stay in the market for four or five [TS]

00:42:52   years so we can really milk that no they [TS]

00:42:54   want they want the profit from selling [TS]

00:42:56   the device they're not trying to milk [TS]

00:42:58   you music sales profits or your video [TS]

00:43:00   rental profits or anything like that [TS]

00:43:01   they need to get the iPad 2 out there [TS]

00:43:03   pronto so people will buy a new iPad and [TS]

00:43:05   give them another 50 60 70 80 90 bucks [TS]

00:43:08   in profit uh so all their profits are [TS]

00:43:11   apples profits are earned immediately [TS]

00:43:12   and immediately fold back fold it back [TS]

00:43:14   into development and they end and they [TS]

00:43:16   release a new better one now the game [TS]

00:43:17   console makers as soon as a game console [TS]

00:43:19   comes out they start working on the next [TS]

00:43:20   one like maybe even before that they [TS]

00:43:22   have to be ready like what the [TS]

00:43:23   PlayStation 4 started developing [TS]

00:43:25   probably before the PlayStation 3 was [TS]

00:43:26   launched or you know in this generation [TS]

00:43:28   is a little bit variability but maybe 2 [TS]

00:43:29   to 3 is a better example but [TS]

00:43:31   historically they've been working on the [TS]

00:43:33   next console as soon as possible so it's [TS]

00:43:35   not like they're sitting on their thumbs [TS]

00:43:36   but they know they can't put out the [TS]

00:43:37   next console like why would they would [TS]

00:43:39   they be they'd be killing the Golden [TS]

00:43:40   Goose they'd we're just getting into the [TS]

00:43:41   part where we're raking in the money [TS]

00:43:42   let's not put out a new console we need [TS]

00:43:45   to just let this sit for a while and [TS]

00:43:47   make our money and then you know that's [TS]

00:43:48   a four or five year cycle or two or [TS]

00:43:49   three year cycle at least ah but again [TS]

00:43:53   it's very different when Apple Apple [TS]

00:43:54   wants to get a new one out every year [TS]

00:43:55   get your money now Amazon what Horace is [TS]

00:43:58   saying is very student is a lot more [TS]

00:44:00   like the game console guys because they [TS]

00:44:03   want to make their money I want to make [TS]

00:44:04   his money on the on selling new video [TS]

00:44:08   and books and movies and everything else [TS]

00:44:11   you can buy through your Amazon device [TS]

00:44:13   right and that's a slower way to make [TS]

00:44:15   money it it's not you know the Amazon is [TS]

00:44:19   not going to be burning down the door to [TS]

00:44:21   release a much better version of the [TS]

00:44:24   Kindle Fire six months from now this is [TS]

00:44:26   the this is the theory in your article [TS]

00:44:28   anyway now I think the the counter [TS]

00:44:30   example might be that they [TS]

00:44:31   been releasing Kindles pretty regularly [TS]

00:44:33   as it been a yearly basis maybe the chat [TS]

00:44:36   room can tell I think it's been more [TS]

00:44:38   than a year but maybe the chat room [TS]

00:44:41   knows us but I feel like I feel like [TS]

00:44:42   every it's not like every year they've [TS]

00:44:44   come out with a new one because there's [TS]

00:44:46   been Kindles have been out for more than [TS]

00:44:48   a few years yeah and Horace's point is [TS]

00:44:51   the point is that like you can only do [TS]

00:44:52   that if the advances you can make to [TS]

00:44:55   your to the device part of it aren't [TS]

00:44:57   that big of a deal it's like yeah we can [TS]

00:44:59   make you a better thing but like it's a [TS]

00:45:02   mature technology and they're not that [TS]

00:45:03   many big advances whereas Apple's iOS [TS]

00:45:05   devices are still or have so far been in [TS]

00:45:08   the part where each new one has [TS]

00:45:09   something that's like wow yeah the old [TS]

00:45:11   one would like the Retina display yeah [TS]

00:45:13   this is a big step up it's not it's not [TS]

00:45:16   a tiny little incremental change right [TS]

00:45:17   obviously they get way faster compared [TS]

00:45:19   the a5 iPad to the original iPhone like [TS]

00:45:22   we're still in that part we're in this [TS]

00:45:24   business selling tablet type devices and [TS]

00:45:26   smart phones and stuff we're still [TS]

00:45:28   making the big leaps and so if you sit [TS]

00:45:30   out a year a year and a half or two long [TS]

00:45:32   and this weird saying this because the [TS]

00:45:33   iPhone 4 it's been out for 18 months or [TS]

00:45:35   whatever you know other people can eat [TS]

00:45:38   your lunch by putting out a new version [TS]

00:45:40   so if you try to let these kindle fires [TS]

00:45:41   not advanced as fast to say the ipad is [TS]

00:45:43   advancing eventually your Kindle Fire is [TS]

00:45:45   even with all this silk stuff is looking [TS]

00:45:47   pretty you know old and crusty right [TS]

00:45:49   they're saying Kindle the Kindle 3 in [TS]

00:45:51   toxic sushi is saying the Kindle 3 is 14 [TS]

00:45:55   months old and W summer says it's about [TS]

00:45:57   every two but I would say oh the Kindles [TS]

00:45:59   if you look at them like what did they [TS]

00:46:01   really change besides making it cheaper [TS]

00:46:03   and that's different than when Apple [TS]

00:46:04   does Apple maintains the price and adds [TS]

00:46:06   more stock now don't they make it [TS]

00:46:07   cheaper though I mean there are a lot of [TS]

00:46:08   people who are saying that the latest [TS]

00:46:10   Kindle I'm not talking about the Kindle [TS]

00:46:11   Fire and things were introduced the [TS]

00:46:13   other day but I'm saying that the that [TS]

00:46:17   the the Kindle for lack of a better term [TS]

00:46:20   the the darker Kindle versus the earlier [TS]

00:46:23   lighter Kindle a lot of people were [TS]

00:46:25   complaining and saying it's they're [TS]

00:46:27   using lower quality components or [TS]

00:46:30   components yeah but as you say that's [TS]

00:46:33   their model because they want they want [TS]

00:46:34   to get the price down they're not trying [TS]

00:46:35   to like what I was going to say is when [TS]

00:46:37   they keep releasing new Kindles they're [TS]

00:46:38   not like all this Kindle the screen on [TS]

00:46:40   this Kindle makes a little past Kindle [TS]

00:46:41   screen looks like crap of course I'm [TS]

00:46:43   going to what they were [TS]

00:46:44   is green it's the surrounding they went [TS]

00:46:46   through the screen but then you'd buy it [TS]

00:46:47   and you'd be like all right so the [TS]

00:46:48   screen is a little bit better but the [TS]

00:46:49   rest of the Kindles feeling pretty [TS]

00:46:51   cruddy and I guess they were even just [TS]

00:46:52   the graphite one when you hold it you [TS]

00:46:54   know it's lighter it's smaller but it [TS]

00:46:57   does it doesn't feel like it feels [TS]

00:46:59   cheaper here and can you imagine like [TS]

00:47:01   Apple makes it stuff than or two but [TS]

00:47:03   when they make them thinner they don't [TS]

00:47:04   make them feel cheaper you know they [TS]

00:47:05   they feel better with time because that [TS]

00:47:08   so I actually think if you were to pick [TS]

00:47:09   up an iPhone 4 in compared to anything [TS]

00:47:13   that came before it progressively [TS]

00:47:14   they're getting denser and and nicer and [TS]

00:47:16   higher-quality overall and that's an [TS]

00:47:20   apples really good at doing they almost [TS]

00:47:22   never even know who was it that was it [TS]

00:47:25   was it Marco I forget who was that had [TS]

00:47:27   they had taken pretty sure was Marco [TS]

00:47:29   they were taking close-ups of even just [TS]

00:47:32   the slight edge on the aluminum those [TS]

00:47:36   Marco the magnetized less sharp and yeah [TS]

00:47:38   just let just in a such a subtle way the [TS]

00:47:41   edges of the aluminum chassis are less [TS]

00:47:44   sharp than they used to be in the [TS]

00:47:46   previous generation it's the subtle [TS]

00:47:48   refinements and improvements and [TS]

00:47:49   obviously it would cost more money to [TS]

00:47:52   round off the edges than it would to [TS]

00:47:54   just leave them sharp since they're [TS]

00:47:55   making them with a laser whatever uh [TS]

00:47:58   whereas the Kindles gone the other way [TS]

00:48:00   there they're still too sharp but but [TS]

00:48:02   yeah so the this is a very difference in [TS]

00:48:04   philosophy and and even though the [TS]

00:48:05   Kindles have been revved they've been [TS]

00:48:07   revved in ways that don't make you say [TS]

00:48:08   oh man I need the new Kindle so much [TS]

00:48:10   more than the past one because of some [TS]

00:48:12   big quality improvement yeah now the [TS]

00:48:14   touch addition and removing the keyboard [TS]

00:48:16   and stuff is helping there but I will be [TS]

00:48:18   interesting to see what the quality is [TS]

00:48:19   like on the new Kindles you that you [TS]

00:48:21   order one of the e-ink ones are just a [TS]

00:48:22   fire I order just the fire yeah so [TS]

00:48:26   because this is this is another this is [TS]

00:48:28   another question is how many people are [TS]

00:48:30   sitting there with the Kindle saying oh [TS]

00:48:33   this one isn't good enough I need I need [TS]

00:48:35   to get the touch one now I need to get [TS]

00:48:37   the other one now and I don't think [TS]

00:48:39   Amazon is concerned about that whereas [TS]

00:48:41   Apple would be concerned if you had your [TS]

00:48:43   iPad one and you saw the iPad to come [TS]

00:48:44   out and one yeah I don't really need the [TS]

00:48:46   iPad 2 and some people did do that but I [TS]

00:48:48   same thing with the phone like it iPhone [TS]

00:48:50   4 comes out with the Retina display if [TS]

00:48:51   you would say my 3ds ok some people did [TS]

00:48:53   that but there are a lot of people who [TS]

00:48:55   like oh man I need that iPhone 4 like [TS]

00:48:57   but Amazon as far as its concerned if [TS]

00:48:59   you want to keep using your Kindle one [TS]

00:49:00   very original Kindle and you keep [TS]

00:49:02   plunking than money and buying their [TS]

00:49:04   books they're okay with that they don't [TS]

00:49:05   have a problem it's a different model [TS]

00:49:07   now what Horace was saying is that in [TS]

00:49:10   the market for tablets like maybe they [TS]

00:49:13   can get away with that with e-readers [TS]

00:49:14   but in the market for tablets it could [TS]

00:49:17   be that if they don't Rev the way Apple [TS]

00:49:20   revs like don't just give us a new fire [TS]

00:49:21   in a year but give us a new fire that's [TS]

00:49:23   like that is - the original fire like [TS]

00:49:25   the iPad - was the iPad one if they [TS]

00:49:27   don't do that kind of jump two or three [TS]

00:49:29   iterations and Apple's tablets are so [TS]

00:49:33   much better than the fire that it's kind [TS]

00:49:35   of like oh you got one of those fire [TS]

00:49:36   things yeah that it have nice content [TS]

00:49:38   and all but yeah no come on it's like [TS]

00:49:39   you're using Windows 95 and roll or iOS [TS]

00:49:41   10 so yeah some of the chatroom points [TS]

00:49:46   out that Apple might not be concerned [TS]

00:49:47   don't get it every time they just want [TS]

00:49:48   to get them every second revision or [TS]

00:49:49   whatever but the point is Apple makes [TS]

00:49:51   its money selling selling the thing and [TS]

00:49:53   they want to give you a reason to [TS]

00:49:55   upgrade whereas as Amazon is not so much [TS]

00:49:58   into that and will be very interesting [TS]

00:49:59   to see can you can you sell it a bit [TS]

00:50:02   like that can you sell it tab like a [TS]

00:50:04   game console where you just let it sit [TS]

00:50:05   in the market and the other ones get so [TS]

00:50:07   much but especially there's a direct [TS]

00:50:08   competitor it's as if there are many [TS]

00:50:11   other reason ball game consoles sell [TS]

00:50:12   this but don't do this but it's as if [TS]

00:50:13   you come with the PlayStation 2 and you [TS]

00:50:15   sit let it sit there for five years and [TS]

00:50:16   during that time your competitor makes [TS]

00:50:19   five new console versions so by the time [TS]

00:50:21   your five comes around PlayStation 2 is [TS]

00:50:23   competing against something that has [TS]

00:50:25   graphics that are like 60 times better [TS]

00:50:26   and as in control and as all sorts of [TS]

00:50:29   things you're like that's not how the [TS]

00:50:30   console market works for variety of [TS]

00:50:32   other reasons I'm going to do with game [TS]

00:50:33   compatibility and libraries and really [TS]

00:50:35   schedules and IP and blah blah blah [TS]

00:50:37   people want us to do a gaming show maybe [TS]

00:50:39   we will let a in this market apples [TS]

00:50:42   already they're doing the thing where [TS]

00:50:44   they make you want the new iPad Amazon's [TS]

00:50:46   coming into that later and saying we [TS]

00:50:49   have this thing it looks like an iPad [TS]

00:50:50   but we're going to treat it differently [TS]

00:50:51   or it seems like they're going to treat [TS]

00:50:53   it differently uh but we'll see so I [TS]

00:50:55   thought that was a very astute insight [TS]

00:50:58   into how Amazon's model is different the [TS]

00:51:01   different entry is the difference in the [TS]

00:51:03   content way that we all talked about [TS]

00:51:04   different in the building on your cloud [TS]

00:51:06   services in area where the apples weak [TS]

00:51:08   which is something that I noticed [TS]

00:51:10   and in the pricing structure of how [TS]

00:51:12   they're going to make their money and [TS]

00:51:13   how and what they want you to do with it [TS]

00:51:15   consumer behavior that they're trying to [TS]

00:51:17   encourage now competitively I think [TS]

00:51:20   being low-priced I didn't get a chance [TS]

00:51:22   to talk about those iPhone stuff so I'll [TS]

00:51:23   just throw it in a little bit at the end [TS]

00:51:25   here I think being low-priced is really [TS]

00:51:26   important and as I've said for years I [TS]

00:51:29   was saying that Apple needs to get their [TS]

00:51:31   iOS devices there are phones in [TS]

00:51:32   particular get it on more carriers that [TS]

00:51:34   was saying get on Verizon you know ASAP [TS]

00:51:37   because it's kind of too late I was [TS]

00:51:39   getting to be too late and they just [TS]

00:51:40   barely got it in time I think spread the [TS]

00:51:42   thing out and start doing what you did [TS]

00:51:44   with the iPod diversify make the cheap [TS]

00:51:46   low-cost ones and they kind of do that [TS]

00:51:48   with it leave the old one in the market [TS]

00:51:49   and stuff like that but I think Apple [TS]

00:51:51   really needs to step it up Tim Cook is [TS]

00:51:54   always like sasaeng he's not going to [TS]

00:51:55   leave was it he's not going to leave a [TS]

00:51:56   price umbrella or he's not going to make [TS]

00:51:58   a price umbrella some phrases saying I'm [TS]

00:51:59   not going to leave a gap in the market [TS]

00:52:01   where our competitors can come in and [TS]

00:52:03   make sales that we can't make because we [TS]

00:52:05   weren't meeting a price point Apple [TS]

00:52:07   won't make crap but at a certain point [TS]

00:52:08   you can make a pretty darn good phone [TS]

00:52:10   like you know the 3GS it's not a bad [TS]

00:52:13   phone it's pretty good smartphone right [TS]

00:52:15   it's not as good as iPhone 4 but now [TS]

00:52:17   when the new one comes out presumably [TS]

00:52:18   they can make the iPhone 4 cheap enough [TS]

00:52:19   for that to be the $49 model or one or [TS]

00:52:21   whatever Apple needs to push down into [TS]

00:52:24   the market with good quality phones even [TS]

00:52:26   if they're just last year's phones or [TS]

00:52:28   maybe like the stigma of lash or [TS]

00:52:29   something maybe make you know diversify [TS]

00:52:32   in the same way that you had the Nano [TS]

00:52:34   and the classic and the shuffle they're [TS]

00:52:36   all iPods with the three different [TS]

00:52:37   products and you don't feel like you're [TS]

00:52:38   getting last year's product is you oh [TS]

00:52:40   I'm getting this year's shuffle even [TS]

00:52:41   though you know this year's shuffle is [TS]

00:52:42   no greater than last you know last [TS]

00:52:44   year's shuffle really it's still a [TS]

00:52:45   shuffle compared to the big fancy one [TS]

00:52:47   right I think Apple needs to start [TS]

00:52:50   pushing down pushing down price-wise [TS]

00:52:52   with the iPad if it's just with one [TS]

00:52:54   model the iPad fine or maybe diversified [TS]

00:52:56   and have a high end alone but definitely [TS]

00:52:57   with the phone push down to that $49 [TS]

00:53:01   phone and don't just make it last year's [TS]

00:53:02   model because I think it's a stigma [TS]

00:53:03   attached to it because Amazon is going [TS]

00:53:06   down there Amazon sell it $79 [TS]

00:53:08   Kindles right there they're selling a [TS]

00:53:12   lot they're going to sell a lot of [TS]

00:53:13   razors that way and I think Amazon's [TS]

00:53:15   ability to make money off the blades [TS]

00:53:16   continuing this belaboring this analogy [TS]

00:53:18   is better than Apple's ability because [TS]

00:53:21   they just have a wider selection they [TS]

00:53:22   have that more [TS]

00:53:24   selling stuff apples great about selling [TS]

00:53:26   digital stuff and especially great about [TS]

00:53:27   selling apps and Amazon is not nearly [TS]

00:53:30   competitive there but that one sells [TS]

00:53:31   like I'm son sells everything like they [TS]

00:53:33   sell you lawn chairs do that thing [TS]

00:53:35   you're not going to get the lawn chair [TS]

00:53:36   on your device but it'll be delivered to [TS]

00:53:37   your house but you bought it through [TS]

00:53:38   them like Amazon is that is the retail [TS]

00:53:40   king and so I think they have more [TS]

00:53:43   bandwidth to make the big bucks selling [TS]

00:53:45   the blades than Apple does with just its [TS]

00:53:48   catalog of stuff that has now now they [TS]

00:53:50   said there's a couple questions so when [TS]

00:53:51   I ask you one oh one of them relates to [TS]

00:53:53   iPods another relates to Amazon Prime [TS]

00:53:57   and now we also need to talk about [TS]

00:53:59   Fringe but before we do that I want to [TS]

00:54:01   want to do our second sponsor can we do [TS]

00:54:04   that you can okay did were you just [TS]

00:54:08   unplugging I was just taking a drink of [TS]

00:54:10   water okay with you it's alright maybe [TS]

00:54:12   there was a long rant sifter so I can [TS]

00:54:14   sponsor it's an intentionally basic bug [TS]

00:54:17   track or what does this mean well these [TS]

00:54:18   days teams are made up of much more than [TS]

00:54:20   developers they're not all hardcore [TS]

00:54:22   programmers anymore you've got designers [TS]

00:54:24   a lot of the time you want your clients [TS]

00:54:26   if you're developing with the [TS]

00:54:28   involvement of a client you need for [TS]

00:54:30   them to be able to get in there and file [TS]

00:54:32   bugs and help you figure stuff out I [TS]

00:54:33   mean you've got business team members [TS]

00:54:35   you've got people in sales you get [TS]

00:54:36   non-technical users that's the key here [TS]

00:54:38   well it's important to get everybody [TS]

00:54:39   involved it can't just just be the [TS]

00:54:41   developers anymore this is 2011 people [TS]

00:54:44   come on [TS]

00:54:44   most bug trackers are great for the [TS]

00:54:46   developers but they're they're not very [TS]

00:54:50   good for people who are not technical [TS]

00:54:52   and there's a very fine line between [TS]

00:54:54   providing these great features for the [TS]

00:54:56   developers the ones they need to use but [TS]

00:54:58   also being able to loop in your [TS]

00:54:59   designers declines your non-technical [TS]

00:55:01   people and get them to participate well [TS]

00:55:03   sifter focuses obsessively on making [TS]

00:55:05   sure that non-technical team members are [TS]

00:55:07   comfortable diving in and that in [TS]

00:55:09   helping close bugs and in close issues [TS]

00:55:11   that's what it's all about [TS]

00:55:12   and go to sifter app comm you can try [TS]

00:55:15   this thing free for for 30 days and just [TS]

00:55:18   try it out whether you're just a lone [TS]

00:55:20   developer whether you've got a whole you [TS]

00:55:22   know thousand person team doesn't matter [TS]

00:55:23   check them out sifter app comm written [TS]

00:55:26   by the amazing Garrett diamond go check [TS]

00:55:30   it out [TS]

00:55:31   so your question is to remember them [TS]

00:55:33   iPods we'll start with that I think I [TS]

00:55:37   talked to John [TS]

00:55:37   groover about this on the talk show this [TS]

00:55:39   week but I wanted to get your take [TS]

00:55:40   because you are you are an avid iPod [TS]

00:55:44   user you have three iPod Touches is that [TS]

00:55:48   correct that's correct three of those do [TS]

00:55:50   you have any regular iPods or do your [TS]

00:55:52   kids cuz you've got kids yeah we have a [TS]

00:55:54   quite a collection of iPod and quite a [TS]

00:55:56   collection of kids just to just to mmm [TS]

00:56:00   alright I thought you were adding some [TS]

00:56:01   upgrading now you're just going to [TS]

00:56:03   upgrade the current ones yes [TS]

00:56:05   do they have iPods traditional iPods or [TS]

00:56:08   are they using the two of the touches [TS]

00:56:09   they're using one of the share one of [TS]

00:56:12   the touches great kids you have that [TS]

00:56:15   they can share one one piece of [TS]

00:56:16   technology yeah well you know they still [TS]

00:56:19   grab bars when everything gets a little [TS]

00:56:21   handsome it's not like they feeling a [TS]

00:56:22   propriety towards down what do you make [TS]

00:56:25   of the rumors that are saying that the [TS]

00:56:28   traditional iPod the iPod Classic may be [TS]

00:56:31   may be canceled and that may be [TS]

00:56:34   everything except the iPod Nano well and [TS]

00:56:37   and the iPod Touch will go will go away [TS]

00:56:39   go the way of the dinosaur I think the [TS]

00:56:42   classic is over - is it like do you I'm [TS]

00:56:44   you keep a product like that in the [TS]

00:56:46   market just for DJ's there are people [TS]

00:56:48   who who enjoy and use the classic and [TS]

00:56:50   they will be annoyed when it's gone but [TS]

00:56:51   there's I don't think is enough for [TS]

00:56:52   those people I'm amazed that it's stayed [TS]

00:56:54   around maybe stay there and of like [TS]

00:56:55   nostalgia kind of the way they kept the [TS]

00:56:57   Mac you know member the Mac classic - [TS]

00:56:58   like the only reason that form factor [TS]

00:56:59   was around because it was like classic [TS]

00:57:01   coke kind of marketing angle and it was [TS]

00:57:03   nostalgia so so yeah I don't I don't I'm [TS]

00:57:08   not going to be surprised if the classic [TS]

00:57:09   goes away I thought I think it should [TS]

00:57:11   have been gone already and my other [TS]

00:57:12   question about the touch yeah I mean do [TS]

00:57:13   you so you're saying then that the touch [TS]

00:57:16   which has far far far less storage than [TS]

00:57:20   the iPod Classic and is more expensive [TS]

00:57:23   at the lower end than the higher-end [TS]

00:57:25   matte classic you I'm not Classic iPod [TS]

00:57:28   Classic you're saying that the iPod [TS]

00:57:32   Touch is going to replace essentially [TS]

00:57:35   fill the fill the space of the iPod no I [TS]

00:57:37   think nothing is going to fill that [TS]

00:57:38   space for a while like nothing can fill [TS]

00:57:40   it until flash memory gets up to [TS]

00:57:41   whatever those things one of those [TS]

00:57:43   little hard drives are up to it though [TS]

00:57:44   they have to 160 or something in for how [TS]

00:57:46   big they were so what do people do you [TS]

00:57:48   don't don't you flash will eventually [TS]

00:57:50   get up to [TS]

00:57:51   point but until it does apples not going [TS]

00:57:52   to be crying over the fact they don't [TS]

00:57:54   have an offering at 160 gigs really no [TS]

00:57:56   they'll just met DJ's have 360 gigs iPod [TS]

00:57:59   classics anyway so now they'll have six [TS]

00:58:01   ipod touches or they'll just use a [TS]

00:58:04   laptop or there's so many so many other [TS]

00:58:06   options it's not it's not a consumer [TS]

00:58:08   problem where people are saying I need [TS]

00:58:10   that 160 gig model and you cannot remove [TS]

00:58:12   it from the line until you give me an [TS]

00:58:14   alternative 160 gig model that's not a [TS]

00:58:16   problem that Apple has so you don't you [TS]

00:58:20   don't think that they will feel [TS]

00:58:21   obligated in some way you don't you [TS]

00:58:25   don't feel that they will now they're [TS]

00:58:27   not obligated to unless this consumers [TS]

00:58:29   who want to buy there's not enough [TS]

00:58:30   people who need that much storage for [TS]

00:58:32   music cuz just not huh I don't know I [TS]

00:58:37   just I think I think they're going to [TS]

00:58:40   keep this thing around I just it feels [TS]

00:58:42   it feels wrong to me it feels wrong to [TS]

00:58:45   me that is something doesn't feel right [TS]

00:58:47   I feel like I mean I won't be shocked if [TS]

00:58:49   they get rid of this thing they can keep [TS]

00:58:51   it or I mean like it so should we drive [TS]

00:58:53   it now because I want I want to have one [TS]

00:58:55   of these John or the classic you mean [TS]

00:58:57   yeah well what so what's the cost of [TS]

00:58:58   then keeping around there like it [TS]

00:59:00   doesn't cost us anything to keep them [TS]

00:59:01   around not even only a few people buy [TS]

00:59:03   them like this obviously it cost them [TS]

00:59:05   something to keep around but that they [TS]

00:59:06   have accountancy we're going to say this [TS]

00:59:07   is how much money we'll save who we [TS]

00:59:08   ditch this line there's not much money [TS]

00:59:09   we made from it last year this is a [TS]

00:59:11   trend line how much more money we're [TS]

00:59:12   going to make from this year it's a [TS]

00:59:13   business decision it's not know anything [TS]

00:59:16   more than that you but that's what I'm [TS]

00:59:18   saying how what does it cost the money [TS]

00:59:19   to keep it around well you have stock to [TS]

00:59:22   deal with I you want to sell as many of [TS]

00:59:24   the same thing as possible if you sell [TS]

00:59:26   only a few of a thing then you still [TS]

00:59:28   have some constant overhead for each [TS]

00:59:30   product line dealing with you know [TS]

00:59:33   manufacturing those components and [TS]

00:59:35   buying a small quantity of those little [TS]

00:59:36   hard drives that starts to cost you much [TS]

00:59:38   more than buying a humongous quantity of [TS]

00:59:40   the flash and yeah it's talk to an MVA I [TS]

00:59:44   don't know the details but it comes down [TS]

00:59:45   to a business decision based on pretty [TS]

00:59:48   clear mouth and the only thing that [TS]

00:59:49   might enter in into it is sentimentality [TS]

00:59:50   or for example ruin either DJ market [TS]

00:59:53   even though we don't make enough money [TS]

00:59:54   and we really need those guys because [TS]

00:59:55   they are the thought leaders in consumer [TS]

00:59:57   electronic buying but they're not so [TS]

00:59:58   sorry TJ [TS]

00:59:58   sorry TJ [TS]

01:00:00   yes I think they'll be pretty upset if [TS]

01:00:03   they take that away one more thing in [TS]

01:00:06   Amazon before we yeah to jump back to [TS]

01:00:08   that is that someone uh actually no I [TS]

01:00:10   think I found this myself somehow there [TS]

01:00:13   was a VentureBeat completely [TS]

01:00:14   unsubstantiated rumor that says the [TS]

01:00:16   headline is amazon has pom ended [TS]

01:00:18   shopping cart will it click buy well [TS]

01:00:20   Amazon would have bought with one click [TS]

01:00:21   first of all but right now the remember [TS]

01:00:24   we talked about like I suggest that now [TS]

01:00:26   that pom seems to be out of favor at HP [TS]

01:00:29   Amazon could really use a company like [TS]

01:00:31   that they would let it have even more [TS]

01:00:32   full ownership over its OS and what I [TS]

01:00:34   said was like that was the time to have [TS]

01:00:36   the conversation before you release your [TS]

01:00:37   tablet decide do we want palm do we want [TS]

01:00:39   to put off our tablet thing and put it [TS]

01:00:40   out later [TS]

01:00:41   Amazon apparently decided they're [TS]

01:00:43   definitely putting out their tablet now [TS]

01:00:45   it's important to get into the market [TS]

01:00:46   they're going to go with what they [TS]

01:00:48   developed which is this Android thing [TS]

01:00:49   but it's not doesn't really look like [TS]

01:00:50   Android and what I said was that even if [TS]

01:00:53   they decide no we have to ship now we [TS]

01:00:54   got to get in the market it's time to [TS]

01:00:55   get the ball rolling they're not closing [TS]

01:00:57   the door on some day buying palm at [TS]

01:01:00   forest fire sale prices and getting to [TS]

01:01:02   own their own OS because the Amazon the [TS]

01:01:06   Kindle Fire 2 or whatever the heck they [TS]

01:01:07   call the next version of it could run [TS]

01:01:09   webOS no but notice the only thing [TS]

01:01:11   you'll notice is like well you bought [TS]

01:01:12   apps from the Android App Store that run [TS]

01:01:14   on the thing but I really do not see the [TS]

01:01:16   fire being positioned as a you know hey [TS]

01:01:17   run apps on it that it does that but and [TS]

01:01:21   maybe will develop for it and if they [TS]

01:01:23   sell a whole julien fire you don't think [TS]

01:01:25   that's their angle at all you don't [TS]

01:01:26   think that this is part of them [TS]

01:01:29   that's part of the thing but it's like [TS]

01:01:31   that's not what their strengths is not [TS]

01:01:33   what they're leaning on if if they fall [TS]

01:01:35   ass-backward into it sorry [TS]

01:01:37   marker i it fall backwards into it they [TS]

01:01:41   won't complain so if they sell tons and [TS]

01:01:44   tons of fires because they're just so [TS]

01:01:45   cheap and people just want to really [TS]

01:01:46   cheap tablet then suddenly app [TS]

01:01:48   developers are going to perk up and say [TS]

01:01:50   well you know we got to start developing [TS]

01:01:51   for that but their expertise is not in [TS]

01:01:53   having a development platform or [TS]

01:01:55   supporting developers or treating them [TS]

01:01:56   nicely or not giving away their apps for [TS]

01:01:58   free because they agreed to it in the [TS]

01:01:59   Terms of Service or changing their [TS]

01:02:01   prices all these things that they do [TS]

01:02:02   mags Apple look like a dream to deal [TS]

01:02:04   with so I'm not banking on I don't think [TS]

01:02:07   Amazon is Bank on the strength as an [TS]

01:02:09   application maker and that's why I say [TS]

01:02:12   the door is not closed [TS]

01:02:13   to going with webOS and owning your own [TS]

01:02:16   OS if they decide that strategically [TS]

01:02:18   important for them because you know [TS]

01:02:20   Google is a competitor but they're using [TS]

01:02:22   their technology and that's not a great [TS]

01:02:23   long-term way to go you know that [TS]

01:02:26   whatever is underpinning the Kindles as [TS]

01:02:28   Linux and stuff like that but like the [TS]

01:02:30   it's is not owned and controlled by [TS]

01:02:32   another competitor company right so I [TS]

01:02:35   think that this rumor of them buying [TS]

01:02:39   palm [TS]

01:02:41   even though simply unsubstantiated is [TS]

01:02:43   that the fact that this is in the air [TS]

01:02:44   now [TS]

01:02:45   it's something that we're thinking about [TS]

01:02:47   at the very least I was at Amazon should [TS]

01:02:49   hire all the people who are being laid [TS]

01:02:51   off from HP or her work group um but the [TS]

01:02:52   very least get the talent right because [TS]

01:02:54   there's a very small pool of the talent [TS]

01:02:56   of people who can work on mobile devices [TS]

01:02:58   and stuff like that and the pond people [TS]

01:03:00   did great work they made a great product [TS]

01:03:01   you want those people even if you don't [TS]

01:03:02   want the company you want the people but [TS]

01:03:05   buying palm I still think it's worth [TS]

01:03:07   talking about and as I said the previews [TS]

01:03:10   can't broadcast I have very strong [TS]

01:03:12   arguments for and against buying palm [TS]

01:03:13   but I don't like the fact I was in [TS]

01:03:15   Amazon I would not like the fact that we [TS]

01:03:16   are using Android did we have to say [TS]

01:03:18   that word that our apps are Android apps [TS]

01:03:21   even though we have our own store and [TS]

01:03:22   it's separate and we're not using Google [TS]

01:03:23   stuff and is open source it's just a [TS]

01:03:26   little Wiggy you know yeah fringe fringe [TS]

01:03:32   you want to do iPod or iPhone [TS]

01:03:34   announcement predictions is that you [TS]

01:03:36   refuse every show we have to we have to [TS]

01:03:39   I guess I stopped I guess we can't talk [TS]

01:03:41   about the fringe then yeah yeah let's [TS]

01:03:44   hear what do you predict but now first [TS]

01:03:46   you refuse to make good prediction on [TS]

01:03:47   the talk shows like you know I made a [TS]

01:03:49   pre made it what was it then those [TS]

01:03:51   reiterated my prediction was that we [TS]

01:03:54   will and and I mean maybe I'm changing [TS]

01:03:57   this because I've been thinking about it [TS]

01:03:58   a lot I think that the iPhone for form [TS]

01:04:04   factor is a great form factor for the [TS]

01:04:07   reasons that that John said on that [TS]

01:04:10   episode we should probably put that in [TS]

01:04:11   the show notes but he gave a lot of [TS]

01:04:14   really good reasons why Apple would not [TS]

01:04:17   go with a teardrop shape as everybody [TS]

01:04:21   has been predicting and it if you had [TS]

01:04:24   asked me to make a prediction about the [TS]

01:04:26   form factor of [TS]

01:04:27   the new iPhone 5 before [TS]

01:04:30   I had heard those arguments I would have [TS]

01:04:32   said duds gonna be tears a teardrop [TS]

01:04:34   shape dummy but now I'm hearing all of [TS]

01:04:38   his arguments against it I'm if it's [TS]

01:04:40   very difficult for me to see why Apple [TS]

01:04:43   would create something that in short is [TS]

01:04:46   an unbalanced device and if you look at [TS]

01:04:48   all of their devices that are that are [TS]

01:04:50   portable all the iOS devices they're [TS]

01:04:53   balanced you can hold them in it up or [TS]

01:04:55   down and that's absolutely one of the [TS]

01:04:57   strengths if you compare how effectively [TS]

01:05:00   you can rotate an iOS device sideways or [TS]

01:05:04   even upside down depending on the app [TS]

01:05:06   you don't need to know which end is up [TS]

01:05:08   you don't need to know that and in fact [TS]

01:05:12   that's icing I think a huge strength of [TS]

01:05:14   the platform is that it works just as [TS]

01:05:17   well upside down as it does right side [TS]

01:05:19   up or side with whatever it's just great [TS]

01:05:21   that way and the rotation is seamless [TS]

01:05:23   all the apps just do it it's actually [TS]

01:05:25   criteria for submitting an app and in [TS]

01:05:26   many cases that it has to work that way [TS]

01:05:28   so the idea that you would have [TS]

01:05:31   something that would not be balanced in [TS]

01:05:33   your hands when you're holding it upside [TS]

01:05:35   down or sideways that's a very [TS]

01:05:38   compelling argument against a teardrop [TS]

01:05:40   shape so I'm gonna say and you know what [TS]

01:05:43   I'm okay being wrong about this but it [TS]

01:05:45   Apple if they do a tear drop shape [TS]

01:05:48   they'll have a compelling reason as to [TS]

01:05:49   why they did it that way but I'm going [TS]

01:05:51   to say that it's going to be the similar [TS]

01:05:53   form factor to what we have right now [TS]

01:05:54   with the iPhone 4 I wouldn't be [TS]

01:05:56   surprised if it was lighter or thinner [TS]

01:05:59   but I think that the iPod Touch is is [TS]

01:06:02   the edge of thinness I don't think we [TS]

01:06:03   can go any thinner than that and still [TS]

01:06:05   have something that people could [TS]

01:06:07   comfortably hold and not worry about [TS]

01:06:09   snapping in half like it like a match [TS]

01:06:11   stick or toothpick I made you go first [TS]

01:06:14   biggest when you're on talk-show you [TS]

01:06:16   were swayed by uber going first you're [TS]

01:06:19   like you know those are all like you [TS]

01:06:20   know strong opinion of your own you just [TS]

01:06:22   go at the end the last guy who talked [TS]

01:06:23   about it was very convincing but they're [TS]

01:06:25   gonna listen someone else where you go [TS]

01:06:27   with that opinion coming from the wind [TS]

01:06:28   no I don't so I'm convinced I'm [TS]

01:06:32   convinced by what he said that there's [TS]

01:06:35   there's no way that they could do an [TS]

01:06:37   unbalanced shape now if they do it [TS]

01:06:41   it'll-it'll I'll really want to hear [TS]

01:06:43   what they're thinking is for it because [TS]

01:06:45   look at this look go back to the very [TS]

01:06:47   first the very first iPhone even the [TS]

01:06:49   iPod itself is a balance device and and [TS]

01:06:52   I've used the iPod upside-down plenty of [TS]

01:06:54   times but it's still balanced and and I [TS]

01:06:57   don't see that as a downside I see that [TS]

01:06:59   as an upside I don't I don't know I [TS]

01:07:02   think I think it'll be a long time [TS]

01:07:04   before we see a teardrop shape I mean [TS]

01:07:06   obviously with it's a people were [TS]

01:07:08   speculating about that but now I'm just [TS]

01:07:10   sitting you're looking on I don't know [TS]

01:07:12   but I'll tell you what I want I want a [TS]

01:07:14   lighter even if it's the same thickness [TS]

01:07:16   I just want this thing to be lighter [TS]

01:07:18   this is a heavy phone it's heavy this [TS]

01:07:21   density that's getting you yeah all [TS]

01:07:23   right so we there was a fault the quick [TS]

01:07:25   fall and what you said about the [TS]

01:07:26   orientation because we did have a lot of [TS]

01:07:27   people falling up on the orientation of [TS]

01:07:28   like iOS devices and apps being rejected [TS]

01:07:31   for different orientations yeah I [TS]

01:07:32   thought I'd waffled enough on this but [TS]

01:07:34   apparently not last time we discussed it [TS]

01:07:36   I said Apple wants it to work in all [TS]

01:07:37   orientations and they might reject your [TS]

01:07:39   app if you're willfully not working in [TS]

01:07:41   some orientation that you could but of [TS]

01:07:43   course there are apps that only work in [TS]

01:07:44   landscape in the example I gave was [TS]

01:07:45   games lots of games are only landscape [TS]

01:07:46   and stuff like that so people felt the [TS]

01:07:48   need to send me messages to tell me to [TS]

01:07:51   point me to the exact section of the [TS]

01:07:53   gods say you should run in all [TS]

01:07:54   orientations on the iPad in particular a [TS]

01:07:56   buddy grap needs to run an only portrait [TS]

01:07:58   or landscape you should and it gives a [TS]

01:08:01   bunch of examples for if it has to do it [TS]

01:08:03   so on and so forth so yes the apple [TS]

01:08:04   doesn't require that every single app [TS]

01:08:05   work in all orientations [TS]

01:08:07   I was just comparing it to Microsoft [TS]

01:08:08   saying if you want to work on only on an [TS]

01:08:11   11 inch 16 by 9 tablet you can make your [TS]

01:08:14   app only work in this very specific case [TS]

01:08:15   offering that as an example is very [TS]

01:08:17   different from Apple trying to say it [TS]

01:08:19   should work on all the orientations less [TS]

01:08:20   you have a good reason if you have a [TS]

01:08:21   good reason fine [TS]

01:08:23   so that was worth bringing up now for [TS]

01:08:25   the for the predictions for this yet [TS]

01:08:27   what do you say the thing now Gruber and [TS]

01:08:30   I discussed this actually after the show [TS]

01:08:32   and I don't think we came to any [TS]

01:08:36   agreement they don't the first thing [TS]

01:08:37   I'll say is that I think it's more [TS]

01:08:39   wedge-shaped in teardrop shaped the [TS]

01:08:40   shape that keeps showing in those rumors [TS]

01:08:42   I have the same everything you said [TS]

01:08:44   about that the wedge shape is true and [TS]

01:08:47   my big objection to the web shape in [TS]

01:08:49   terms like is is a good idea to have a [TS]

01:08:51   web shape besides all the stuff he [TS]

01:08:53   mentioned is that [TS]

01:08:54   like battery technology is not advancing [TS]

01:08:58   that fast if you make it wedge-shaped [TS]

01:09:01   you are subtracting battery and most of [TS]

01:09:03   what's inside the phone is battery [TS]

01:09:04   there's not a lot of room and there's [TS]

01:09:05   not a lot of empty room and it's [TS]

01:09:07   basically just a big battery and a very [TS]

01:09:08   tiny circuit board float around the [TS]

01:09:10   edges barely and then a screen on top of [TS]

01:09:13   it this is the big battery if you make [TS]

01:09:15   it wedge you are subtracting a pretty [TS]

01:09:18   big amount of space that could have been [TS]

01:09:19   holding battery and for what so it's [TS]

01:09:22   thinner but only on one side what does [TS]

01:09:24   that you know thinner is one thing like [TS]

01:09:28   oh I we made a thinner phone if it's [TS]

01:09:29   just thinner on one side what is it that [TS]

01:09:31   I can now do with my phone or increase [TS]

01:09:34   comfort that is worth the battery life [TS]

01:09:36   I'm losing from you shaving off that [TS]

01:09:38   edge now it could be that if the other [TS]

01:09:40   part of the rumors are true that it's [TS]

01:09:41   actually a bigger screen and stuff that [TS]

01:09:42   we're actually using battery because [TS]

01:09:44   what we cut off in the thickness we [TS]

01:09:46   gained in width and height because the [TS]

01:09:48   whole phone is bigger that could be [TS]

01:09:50   possible as well where I come down on [TS]

01:09:53   the phone is that I will be I'll do it [TS]

01:09:56   in levels of certainty I will be [TS]

01:09:58   insanely shocked if this phone has a [TS]

01:10:01   glass back on it all right I will be [TS]

01:10:04   very surprised I agree with ya it will [TS]

01:10:06   be very surprised if this phone does not [TS]

01:10:08   have a new form factor so like I think [TS]

01:10:10   you think it will it will have a [TS]

01:10:12   completely different form factor not [TS]

01:10:13   just something and it does thinner count [TS]

01:10:16   as a new form factor something that is [TS]

01:10:17   immediately recognizable if it was next [TS]

01:10:19   to an iPhone 4 that it's not an iPhone 4 [TS]

01:10:20   well they want that and I think the the [TS]

01:10:23   consumers expect that and I think there [TS]

01:10:25   would be a lot of grumblings of oh they [TS]

01:10:27   didn't change the form factor it's the [TS]

01:10:28   same old phone you know no I think they [TS]

01:10:31   have to but I don't know about a tear [TS]

01:10:32   drop so the thing is that before getting [TS]

01:10:35   up like that why would it look different [TS]

01:10:36   right I think they're overdue for a [TS]

01:10:38   design now the thing against that [TS]

01:10:39   looking different is you remember when [TS]

01:10:41   the MacBooks sort of like went to [TS]

01:10:43   unibody they had a period of stability [TS]

01:10:45   or even even before the unibody in the [TS]

01:10:48   aluminum book there's a period of [TS]

01:10:49   stability in MacBook and MacBook Pro [TS]

01:10:50   design where it's like it's silver it's [TS]

01:10:52   rectangular the keyboards in the middle [TS]

01:10:53   the power button is there there's a [TS]

01:10:54   screen and the details changed but they [TS]

01:10:58   have like a middle period where despite [TS]

01:11:00   the fact that they were revving the [TS]

01:11:01   cases every single version even if it's [TS]

01:11:03   just changing the ports on the side like [TS]

01:11:04   on a MacBook with fire or without like [TS]

01:11:06   oh it's a new case I can tell it from [TS]

01:11:07   the other [TS]

01:11:08   one but they decided that it like kind [TS]

01:11:10   of like Porsche 911 this is what this [TS]

01:11:11   product looks like a MacBook is a silver [TS]

01:11:13   box it looks like this this is where [TS]

01:11:15   everything is laid out there's a [TS]

01:11:15   trackpad you know minor differences with [TS]

01:11:18   button or no button or whatever they [TS]

01:11:19   could have decided this is what an [TS]

01:11:23   iPhone looks like it's rectangular solid [TS]

01:11:24   with flat front and back curved curved [TS]

01:11:28   top and bottom the antennas around the [TS]

01:11:29   side and we'll change the details like [TS]

01:11:31   maybe it's not glass or maybe we use the [TS]

01:11:33   two things and doesn't look like an Oreo [TS]

01:11:34   sandwich anymore or whatever but like [TS]

01:11:36   this is the shape that's the only thing [TS]

01:11:38   making me like what would make them not [TS]

01:11:40   change it I think it needs to be an [TS]

01:11:43   all-new case I think it will be in [TS]

01:11:44   although case now finally the final [TS]

01:11:46   piece of that is something definitely [TS]

01:11:47   not a glass back almost certainly a new [TS]

01:11:51   case but then it's like oh so right so [TS]

01:11:53   fine is that case teardrop shaped and [TS]

01:11:55   that's where we get into my hemming and [TS]

01:11:56   hawing about the battery what but I'm [TS]

01:11:58   leaning towards for the teardrop thing [TS]

01:12:00   is but well there's so much noise about [TS]

01:12:02   this ear drop thing I have to imagine [TS]

01:12:04   that if it's not released it was at [TS]

01:12:07   least a possibility or something you're [TS]

01:12:08   right but the thing I leaned towards in [TS]

01:12:10   the teardrop is like maybe that's not [TS]

01:12:12   the new iPhone maybe that's new iPod [TS]

01:12:13   Touch these new iPod touch [TS]

01:12:15   could benefit from the bigger screen [TS]

01:12:17   because people use iPod Touches kind of [TS]

01:12:18   like as a gaming alternative you know [TS]

01:12:20   you know what I mean yeah like that [TS]

01:12:22   teardrop thing as the new iPod Touch [TS]

01:12:24   they always do weird crap with the iPod [TS]

01:12:25   Touch yeah they're sacrificing battery [TS]

01:12:27   but maybe gets wider it's going to have [TS]

01:12:28   a better camera or credit your camera [TS]

01:12:30   the screens not as nice the screen is [TS]

01:12:32   bigger but it's not as nice as the the [TS]

01:12:34   iPhone like they do all sorts of weird [TS]

01:12:35   on Apple like stuff with the touch [TS]

01:12:37   because they have to keep the price down [TS]

01:12:39   it's not subsidized right they can't [TS]

01:12:40   make it as good as the iPhone 4 because [TS]

01:12:41   800 bucks so when I see that teardrop [TS]

01:12:44   thing if it appears I would be not [TS]

01:12:48   surprised to see that that's actually [TS]

01:12:49   the iPod Touch assuming there even are [TS]

01:12:51   new iPod touch assume there will be uh [TS]

01:12:53   so so that's what I think I think new [TS]

01:12:56   case for the iPhone no glass back [TS]

01:12:59   probably something that's identifiable [TS]

01:13:01   immediately as not the same as the [TS]

01:13:03   current iPhone 4 and teardrop I'm down [TS]

01:13:08   I'm down with all the anti teardrop [TS]

01:13:09   things I just think just because we [TS]

01:13:12   think it's a dumb idea doesn't mean it's [TS]

01:13:13   not going to be introduced in an Apple [TS]

01:13:14   product they do they do we ready to [TS]

01:13:16   syncretic stuff all think of the button [TS]

01:13:18   the shuffle right yeah [TS]

01:13:19   then they don't bad a thousand and I [TS]

01:13:22   would love to hear how they're going to [TS]

01:13:25   explain to me why that taper is a good [TS]

01:13:27   thing because we all know the reason so [TS]

01:13:29   it's not a good thing what why is it [TS]

01:13:31   worth doing that what what about it [TS]

01:13:32   makes it feel better work better be able [TS]

01:13:34   to fit into better pockets maybe it [TS]

01:13:36   comes out of your pocket easier if they [TS]

01:13:38   have any kind of rationale or if they [TS]

01:13:40   just go and look at this nice taper next [TS]

01:13:42   slide like if they do that that's what [TS]

01:13:43   Steve Jobs would do if he didn't have a [TS]

01:13:44   good reason he'd be like he'd say it [TS]

01:13:46   it's like I'm look at this great taper [TS]

01:13:47   and moving on and we just left to say [TS]

01:13:50   you know the press is left either say [TS]

01:13:52   agree and say oh look at the nice paper [TS]

01:13:54   without thinking critically of like so [TS]

01:13:56   what's great about what is it you know [TS]

01:13:57   takes away battery size but what does it [TS]

01:14:00   even I don't know so I am all flustered [TS]

01:14:03   about this but I will still be shocked [TS]

01:14:06   if it doesn't have a new case and yes [TS]

01:14:10   not tear drew wedge-shaped not tear drop [TS]

01:14:12   I don't think it looks tear drop the [TS]

01:14:14   moribund [TS]

01:14:15   yeah they look wedge-shaped in profile [TS]

01:14:16   wedge and also you can talk about this [TS]

01:14:19   too much but like would you like your [TS]

01:14:20   phone your iPhone to get bigger and [TS]

01:14:22   width and height no most people like I [TS]

01:14:25   think he get a little bit bigger and not [TS]

01:14:27   feel like visit have you seen the the [TS]

01:14:29   Droid the big honking droids like these [TS]

01:14:32   4G things but I don't how big the [TS]

01:14:33   screens are but they seem like they're [TS]

01:14:35   big like it's not a 7-inch tablet but [TS]

01:14:37   you're like what the heck am i holding [TS]

01:14:38   here I feel it's like that side talking [TS]

01:14:40   thing yeah hold them your Mac Pro up to [TS]

01:14:42   your head Oh [TS]

01:14:44   I mean you know again I think I think if [TS]

01:14:47   you ant most of the people that I talked [TS]

01:14:49   to who are iPhone 4 owners if you ask [TS]

01:14:52   them what they think of it they'll say [TS]

01:14:54   they like it I'll say did you know [TS]

01:14:55   what's wrong with it those ants a little [TS]

01:14:58   heavy and I in the course of glass back [TS]

01:15:01   what will replace the glass back yeah [TS]

01:15:05   that's that's why they keep going around [TS]

01:15:07   in circles with this because you want it [TS]

01:15:09   to be metal for durability but it's not [TS]

01:15:10   so great for the antenna the back is [TS]

01:15:13   metal and when you if you make an [TS]

01:15:15   external antenna you get a touch of [TS]

01:15:17   juice you want the antenna to be [TS]

01:15:18   internal inside a cheap plastic back [TS]

01:15:19   because that has a really good RF [TS]

01:15:21   performance you don't you need more [TS]

01:15:22   right but that doesn't look nice so [TS]

01:15:24   they're like well glass that's not bad [TS]

01:15:25   for RF and we can get the strong glass [TS]

01:15:29   and it is strong for bending but people [TS]

01:15:30   don't break them by bending them most of [TS]

01:15:32   the time there's a grill [TS]

01:15:33   grass can withstand a lot but yeah it [TS]

01:15:36   still shatters it's not like replacing [TS]

01:15:39   the back isn't that big of a deal it's [TS]

01:15:41   not that expensive to do but and it [TS]

01:15:43   looks really nice I bet they're probably [TS]

01:15:46   happy with how it looks as a product but [TS]

01:15:47   I think they want to experiment more [TS]

01:15:49   carbon-fibre part aluminum like the [TS]

01:15:52   iPhone one was but part flat I don't [TS]

01:15:54   know there's lots of places they can go [TS]

01:15:56   with it if they can get it to work with [TS]

01:15:58   a metal back with just some sort of [TS]

01:15:59   radio transparent plastic section like [TS]

01:16:02   all the plastic apples where the radios [TS]

01:16:03   come through like they kind of do on the [TS]

01:16:05   the iPad and stuff like that I don't [TS]

01:16:08   know that's that's their problem to sort [TS]

01:16:09   out they have conflicting requirements [TS]

01:16:11   they're good RF performance but also [TS]

01:16:13   attractive means dirty will the iPhone 5 [TS]

01:16:16   be John Syracuse's first iPhone I can [TS]

01:16:21   let my wife listen to this episode she [TS]

01:16:22   still desperately wants an iPhone and I [TS]

01:16:24   still say the plans are too expensive if [TS]

01:16:27   it's teardrop shaped I have another [TS]

01:16:28   reason so I'll come on we're not getting [TS]

01:16:29   that teardrop shape now you're way doing [TS]

01:16:31   it wet it was wedged I know and I said [TS]

01:16:33   now you got me doing it I would I would [TS]

01:16:37   like an iPhone I don't want to pay for [TS]

01:16:38   the data plans and the voice plans I [TS]

01:16:41   don't use a mobile phone that much so I [TS]

01:16:42   just keep getting iPod Touches and that [TS]

01:16:44   would just be continued to be [TS]

01:16:45   disappointed in the ways that the iPod [TS]

01:16:47   Touch does not measure up to the current [TS]

01:16:48   generation phone mm-hmm so I'll get [TS]

01:16:50   another ipod touch okay fringe 77 [TS]

01:16:57   minutes in here hmm when you want to say [TS]

01:16:59   about French you liked it you were you [TS]

01:17:01   remain much more enthusiastic about [TS]

01:17:03   fringe than I am and I thought that the [TS]

01:17:04   that episode we just saw was not a great [TS]

01:17:07   episode I was I was saying that it was [TS]

01:17:09   you know was okay um I know a lot of a [TS]

01:17:14   lot of people who are new to fringe who [TS]

01:17:16   loved that episode yeah you know you [TS]

01:17:18   know one person I can't believe she [TS]

01:17:19   liked like that's not representative of [TS]

01:17:21   the show it wasn't a good example of an [TS]

01:17:23   episode I don't know they're just saying [TS]

01:17:25   she liked it to make you feel better she [TS]

01:17:28   liked it no I do like it for real and [TS]

01:17:30   what did you what did you like about it [TS]

01:17:32   didn't have Pacey hahaha damn fine man [TS]

01:17:36   well seriously what what did you I mean [TS]

01:17:39   obviously I I was intrigued by it maybe [TS]

01:17:42   that's a better way to say I thought it [TS]

01:17:44   was a fine episode I mean it's the [TS]

01:17:45   sci fi on on network TV like I didn't [TS]

01:17:49   really understand what was going on at [TS]

01:17:50   all [TS]

01:17:51   no shoes and try it but I was intrigued [TS]

01:17:54   by it maybe I'm not accounting for how [TS]

01:17:56   interesting and novel the characters are [TS]

01:17:58   if you haven't seen them for three [TS]

01:17:59   seasons you know because Walters kind of [TS]

01:18:01   a character and Olivia is somewhat [TS]

01:18:03   interesting and then they do kind of [TS]

01:18:04   x-files stuff did you watch the x-files [TS]

01:18:06   babe yes I did and did you like that I [TS]

01:18:09   love the x-files and did you did you not [TS]

01:18:11   see this episode of Fringe as like a [TS]

01:18:13   really really really poor man's x-files [TS]

01:18:15   um I think I would say that though yeah [TS]

01:18:20   alright well we'll see how I I think you [TS]

01:18:24   should not have watch this episode and [TS]

01:18:25   should have start from the beginning [TS]

01:18:26   because I think the best things Fringe [TS]

01:18:27   has to offer are about the the nature of [TS]

01:18:30   the overall story arc and the individual [TS]

01:18:32   details and individual episodes they can [TS]

01:18:33   be faulted a lot and there are lots of [TS]

01:18:35   problems there but if you were just to [TS]

01:18:37   sketch out the story in outline form [TS]

01:18:38   like I got an idea for a series and this [TS]

01:18:40   is what's gonna happen you'd be like [TS]

01:18:41   that's a cool story I'd watch that show [TS]

01:18:42   yeah I thought she needed she does need [TS]

01:18:45   to start at the beginning and she [TS]

01:18:46   probably but you spoiled like spoil it's [TS]

01:18:50   not so hard but serious like she's [TS]

01:18:52   watching episode already you've spoiled [TS]

01:18:53   stop her her if anything if anything I [TS]

01:18:55   think that she's smart enough to not not [TS]

01:19:01   be swayed by the little things and she's [TS]

01:19:03   heard here get out the men black thing [TS]

01:19:04   and just a purr and then she can start [TS]

01:19:06   from episode one who's gonna give her [TS]

01:19:08   episode one we gotta take up a [TS]

01:19:09   collection she's got to get all three [TS]

01:19:11   series you can buy them on iTunes [TS]

01:19:13   expensive yeah well you boss it's a lot [TS]

01:19:17   it's a lot of time commitment that she'd [TS]

01:19:20   have to invest that's not it's not so [TS]

01:19:21   much that I would so I'm not the one [TS]

01:19:23   encouraging her to watch fringe because [TS]

01:19:25   if I wanted to make her watch a show I'd [TS]

01:19:26   make it watch like The Sopranos if she [TS]

01:19:28   hadn't seen it or something like that [TS]

01:19:29   she doesn't want to watch that's too [TS]

01:19:30   violent yeah that's you get into that [TS]

01:19:33   nothing's very very sensitive agent [TS]

01:19:35   violence yeah it's good top of the show [TS]

01:19:39   and I would address the mean people [TS]

01:19:41   thing but we don't have time maybe next [TS]

01:19:44   episode that's look maybe in supposedly [TS]

01:19:48   her show ends at 11:45 and this is 15 [TS]

01:19:50   minute gap so I could do a brief [TS]

01:19:53   15-minute after dark in there talking [TS]

01:19:55   about meeting people and then we can [TS]

01:19:56   start my show time mm-hm [TS]

01:19:59   all right John well if people if people [TS]

01:20:01   want to hear more of this show they can [TS]

01:20:03   hear all of the previous uh 35 episodes [TS]

01:20:06   of this that's something like you know a [TS]

01:20:08   lot of these shows go over an hour's [TS]

01:20:10   that's like 40 hours of content that we [TS]

01:20:13   provided to them mainly you have [TS]

01:20:15   provided to them they can do that by [TS]

01:20:17   going to find by five that TV slash [TS]

01:20:19   hypercritical if they go there they will [TS]

01:20:21   see the list of episodes they can click [TS]

01:20:22   on the episode they'd like and see all [TS]

01:20:24   of the show notes for it which John [TS]

01:20:27   siracusa has carefully curated and you [TS]

01:20:30   can follow John siracusa on Twitter at [TS]

01:20:34   siracusa nosey in there [TS]

01:20:36   figure it out I'm Dan benjamin on [TS]

01:20:38   twitter and you can also rate this show [TS]

01:20:41   on itunes it's a great way to help new [TS]

01:20:43   people find out about it and we [TS]

01:20:46   appreciate that oh we have 999 ratings [TS]

01:20:49   right now who's gonna be number 5,000 [TS]

01:20:52   who's going to be iTunes caching is such [TS]

01:20:54   that 1000 is almost certainly coming [TS]

01:20:56   through but you can pretend that you [TS]

01:20:57   don't understand about CD ends and [TS]

01:20:58   caching and think you are the 1000 [TS]

01:21:00   person so yes put a Shova push push so [TS]

01:21:02   over the limit the one thousandth [TS]

01:21:04   reviewer you won't know that because it [TS]

01:21:07   goes up by ratings not reviews so this [TS]

01:21:09   fewer than a thousand reviews but [TS]

01:21:11   there's almost a thousand ratings that's [TS]

01:21:12   the number they show the 1000 rating [TS]

01:21:15   what we won't be able to figure out who [TS]

01:21:17   that is yeah I was going to say they [TS]

01:21:19   could have they could get a free you [TS]

01:21:20   know like you could you could have [TS]

01:21:21   dinner with them at the local pizza [TS]

01:21:23   place if we ever get to a thousand [TS]

01:21:24   reviews I don't know how we'd know that [TS]

01:21:26   some person went up there and count them [TS]

01:21:27   or at least count up the pages and [TS]

01:21:28   assume there's an equal number per page [TS]

01:21:29   but yeah and you should also mention [TS]

01:21:32   being comparable the incomparable pop [TS]

01:21:34   news about that right I do have some [TS]

01:21:36   news the John siracusa upset me by going [TS]

01:21:40   on another another podcast and at the [TS]

01:21:42   minute that he did it I said I have to [TS]

01:21:45   listen to this show I was on that before [TS]

01:21:47   I had a show here I believe [TS]

01:21:49   mmm yeah well dad I found out about that [TS]

01:21:52   show and I had to listen to it which [TS]

01:21:55   bothered me I only want to listen to you [TS]

01:21:57   on this show but it turned out was a [TS]

01:21:58   great show it's got well you can you [TS]

01:22:01   tell who's on that show besides you [TS]

01:22:03   Jason Snell who else Dan Morin Glenn [TS]

01:22:05   Fleischmann Greg nah Steve lot says it's [TS]

01:22:08   a huge rotating crew of people depending [TS]

01:22:11   on what they're talking about and it's [TS]

01:22:12   about a geek culture like there's a [TS]

01:22:15   comic book episodes occasionally book [TS]

01:22:16   club so talk about sci-fi and fantasy [TS]

01:22:18   books movies television and depending on [TS]

01:22:21   who's into a particular thing for [TS]

01:22:22   example I'll never be on a comic book [TS]

01:22:23   episode because I'm not into comic books [TS]

01:22:24   so that they have people who are heavily [TS]

01:22:26   into comic books they come on for the [TS]

01:22:27   come quick episode but when they have [TS]

01:22:28   the episodes about Star Wars Star Wars [TS]

01:22:30   I'm there so it's not just me or create [TS]

01:22:33   just any individual people and and it's [TS]

01:22:36   now in five by five so yeah I've been [TS]

01:22:37   listening to this show and I actually [TS]

01:22:40   when when Jason Snell the founder of the [TS]

01:22:44   show I was doing it I told him early on [TS]

01:22:47   I said please you know let me help do [TS]

01:22:49   this on five by five way I'll work and [TS]

01:22:50   we're gonna see where it goes we're [TS]

01:22:51   gonna see what and and this great I told [TS]

01:22:53   him I said listen you got it you've got [TS]

01:22:56   to make this show you've got to keep [TS]

01:22:58   doing this show and he did and I mean he [TS]

01:23:01   he's been doing it he's been doing all [TS]

01:23:03   the editing himself and and I've been [TS]

01:23:06   I've been bugging him but please please [TS]

01:23:08   bring this over to file my file please [TS]

01:23:09   bring this over because this is great [TS]

01:23:10   this is exactly you know this is what [TS]

01:23:13   what the listeners want and bring it [TS]

01:23:15   over and we'll join for it and he did it [TS]

01:23:17   he finally did and and uh I wrote a [TS]

01:23:20   thing in Ruby it imported all the old [TS]

01:23:23   shows have brought it over so it from [TS]

01:23:25   from show one to the current show the [TS]

01:23:27   incomparable podcast is now a shining [TS]

01:23:31   star in the 5x5 crown and the shows are [TS]

01:23:36   not like about news or like the new [TS]

01:23:39   movies let it all out this week [TS]

01:23:40   or about the new books that have come [TS]

01:23:41   out so I would strongly encourage people [TS]

01:23:44   to look through the back catalogue and [TS]

01:23:45   there's going to be shows you're not [TS]

01:23:46   interested in if you're not interested [TS]

01:23:47   in a particular television show or a [TS]

01:23:49   particular kind of comic book or movie [TS]

01:23:50   don't listen to those episodes but look [TS]

01:23:51   through the descriptions I guarantee you [TS]

01:23:53   will find at least four or five episodes [TS]

01:23:54   that you want to cherry pick from the [TS]

01:23:56   pretty extensive back catalogue a lot of [TS]

01:23:58   it appeal for the show it's a great it [TS]

01:24:00   is a great show it's great fun it's it's [TS]

01:24:02   smart geeky people talking about the [TS]

01:24:04   things that they love and what could be [TS]

01:24:05   better than that [TS]

01:24:06   that's right and sometimes John [TS]

01:24:08   circulation and rate that on iTunes when [TS]

01:24:11   this was not on 5x5 when it was toiling [TS]

01:24:13   in obscurity I would say how is it that [TS]

01:24:15   my show doesn't have has like all these [TS]

01:24:18   reviews and all these ratings but the [TS]

01:24:19   incomparable which i think is also a [TS]

01:24:20   great show has like nothing no you know [TS]

01:24:22   it had almost no reviews so please maybe [TS]

01:24:24   this week instead of going to review my [TS]

01:24:26   show or in addition to going writing [TS]

01:24:27   reviewer on my show listen to being [TS]

01:24:29   comfortable see what you think of it and [TS]

01:24:30   rate it very least click the little [TS]

01:24:32   stars and put some reviews and because [TS]

01:24:34   Lou wheat people on the incomparable [TS]

01:24:36   feel bad these other shows are doing so [TS]

01:24:39   much better than we are on the iTunes of [TS]

01:24:41   world so now it's time to focus the full [TS]

01:24:43   power of the 5x5 audience incomparable [TS]

01:24:46   and you can you can do that by going to [TS]

01:24:49   the 5x5 section of iTunes there's a a [TS]

01:24:51   whole section that's just us or you can [TS]

01:24:54   click the iTunes link on 5x5 that TV [TS]

01:24:57   slash incomparable it's all good welcome [TS]

01:25:02   to the family Jon siracusa times 2 twice [TS]

01:25:05   is twice as much alright so that's it [TS]

01:25:08   that's it for this week we'll be back [TS]

01:25:10   next week though right unless you're [TS]

01:25:11   going on vacation again you go on [TS]

01:25:12   vacation I'm all out of occasionally [TS]

01:25:14   alright well thanks everybody for tuning [TS]

01:25:17   in we'll see you again next week [TS]

01:25:26   you [TS]

01:25:40   you [TS]