55: Region of Pain


00:00:00   [Music] [TS]

00:00:02   this is hypercritical a weekly talkshow [TS]

00:00:04   ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

00:00:06   the world of Apple related technologies [TS]

00:00:09   and businesses nothing is so perfect [TS]

00:00:10   that it can't be complained about by my [TS]

00:00:15   co-host John siracusa i'm dan benjamin [TS]

00:00:17   today is Friday February 17th 2012 this [TS]

00:00:21   is episode number 55 we would like to [TS]

00:00:23   thank our sponsors Rackspace comm [TS]

00:00:27   squarespace.com hover.com I'll tell you [TS]

00:00:32   more about them as the show progresses [TS]

00:00:34   we also mentioned that bandwidth for [TS]

00:00:36   this episodes is provided by Mac Mini [TS]

00:00:38   Cola cost high-performance the perfect [TS]

00:00:41   mac server check out Mac Mini : @ / 5x5 [TS]

00:00:46   for very special deals happy Friday to [TS]

00:00:49   you mr. John siracusa happy Friday to [TS]

00:00:53   you Dan why thank you [TS]

00:00:56   have you already begun writing your [TS]

00:00:58   review of mountain lion didn't we talk [TS]

00:01:02   about my writing process once I don't [TS]

00:01:04   begin writing writing but I've begun [TS]

00:01:05   working towards it because now they have [TS]

00:01:08   announced they're going to be on a [TS]

00:01:10   yearly release cycle and what this means [TS]

00:01:13   is that you are going to be writing 24 [TS]

00:01:16   hours a day seven days a week [TS]

00:01:17   non-stop and your reviews will will have [TS]

00:01:20   to because it takes you there to power [TS]

00:01:22   over a year to write one yeah like that [TS]

00:01:24   it's not the writing though it's it [TS]

00:01:26   really begins when I create a note and a [TS]

00:01:29   tag collection in your Jimbo for the [TS]

00:01:32   operating system and traditionally I [TS]

00:01:33   don't do that until I know the the name [TS]

00:01:37   of the operating system the name of the [TS]

00:01:38   cat no yes I have I have my mountain [TS]

00:01:40   lion note it has text in it and yes the [TS]

00:01:43   process has begun so speaking of the [TS]

00:01:47   name of the cat you whatever you know [TS]

00:01:52   you don't even let me do follow-up which [TS]

00:01:53   I just want to jump right into it but we [TS]

00:01:55   can do your follow-up of course I just [TS]

00:01:57   want to but this is the one thing that's [TS]

00:01:58   it it all comes out of this you had [TS]

00:02:02   prophesized that lie I heard you say [TS]

00:02:06   that a Marco show I dis are you not oh [TS]

00:02:08   no not everybody it listens to Marco [TS]

00:02:10   show alright god I'm just telling [TS]

00:02:11   right away already degree you have [TS]

00:02:13   prophesized that lion being the king of [TS]

00:02:18   the jungle this this should signify the [TS]

00:02:22   end of the big cat names because they [TS]

00:02:25   have reached the biggest of the cats [TS]

00:02:27   with lion the king of the jungle it's [TS]

00:02:30   not actually the biggest but yeah the [TS]

00:02:31   king of the jungle [TS]

00:02:32   yeah metaphorically speaking the biggest [TS]

00:02:34   but you're right there is the Thai is [TS]

00:02:35   the liger biggest I don't know there's [TS]

00:02:39   some other cat the way is more I think [TS]

00:02:41   the liger is the biggest anyway you you [TS]

00:02:45   you believe that this should indicate [TS]

00:02:47   the end of the cat names we should move [TS]

00:02:51   on to something else I believe your [TS]

00:02:52   suggestion was the rodents no that [TS]

00:02:55   wasn't it [TS]

00:02:56   or what you know wombat or something but [TS]

00:02:59   we didn't good didn't mountain lion yeah [TS]

00:03:01   you want you know that I said it's last [TS]

00:03:03   time one of the reasons that I actually [TS]

00:03:04   wished they would get off the cat names [TS]

00:03:06   ah is that it would be a nice stopping [TS]

00:03:10   point for me writing his reviews because [TS]

00:03:12   you would have done all that's like what [TS]

00:03:14   all the big cats you know now someone [TS]

00:03:16   else has to take it from here yeah that [TS]

00:03:17   makes sense [TS]

00:03:18   room in a natural stopping point all [TS]

00:03:20   right well anyway I just wanted to [TS]

00:03:21   mention that and plant that seed in case [TS]

00:03:23   it was not on your list yeah I didn't I [TS]

00:03:26   didn't predict that they would I said [TS]

00:03:27   that they should I don't think they [TS]

00:03:28   should have but they didn't yeah I guess [TS]

00:03:31   they don't listen to you and in this [TS]

00:03:32   show yes shocking one small piece of [TS]

00:03:35   follow up and then we can get to it okay [TS]

00:03:37   my apologies for interrupting your [TS]

00:03:39   planned format but I rant breaker [TS]

00:03:43   I'm Apollo I apologize had been [TS]

00:03:45   submitted I have to put this one [TS]

00:03:48   follow-up in because the this is a link [TS]

00:03:52   that more listeners sent me than any [TS]

00:03:54   other link in history of this show [TS]

00:03:56   it's the link to an article by Timothy [TS]

00:03:59   Messer Cruz called the undue weight of [TS]

00:04:03   truth on Wikipedia that I'm used [TS]

00:04:05   I think people see see you on the tweets [TS]

00:04:07   too didn't you see this this link about [TS]

00:04:09   a thousand times yes [TS]

00:04:10   yeah maybe it seems even longer because [TS]

00:04:13   we didn't to the show last week so it's [TS]

00:04:14   got two weeks of people sending this [TS]

00:04:15   link so I felt compelled that I must put [TS]

00:04:18   this link in the show notes and briefly [TS]

00:04:19   discuss it okay this is an article from [TS]

00:04:22   someone who [TS]

00:04:24   has a particular interest in a [TS]

00:04:25   historical event and writes academic [TS]

00:04:28   papers on it and was in the process of [TS]

00:04:29   writing a book about it and happened to [TS]

00:04:31   go to the wikipedia page and saw that [TS]

00:04:33   there was some information that was not [TS]

00:04:34   correct on there the main thing he kept [TS]

00:04:37   found objection with is that the page [TS]

00:04:39   said that the prosecution didn't offer [TS]

00:04:42   any evidence connecting the defendants [TS]

00:04:44   with this this crime that had been [TS]

00:04:45   committed and he said oh no they totally [TS]

00:04:47   did and it was it was a long trial they [TS]

00:04:48   presented lots of evidence and you know [TS]

00:04:50   I've studied all about it I've written [TS]

00:04:51   papers about it and I'm writing a book [TS]

00:04:53   about it now so we corrected it and it [TS]

00:04:56   got reverted and they said you had to [TS]

00:04:59   provide reliable sources blah blah blah [TS]

00:05:01   the whole nine yards Amy says well I I [TS]

00:05:02   had cited things I cited the Library of [TS]

00:05:05   Congress and cited some of his own [TS]

00:05:08   peer-reviewed articles on the topic but [TS]

00:05:09   they didn't like it and so that was his [TS]

00:05:11   first encounter with Wikipedia not [TS]

00:05:12   fulfilling their their citation [TS]

00:05:14   requirements and the other thing that [TS]

00:05:20   where the title comes from is that one [TS]

00:05:22   of the Wikipedians cited the undue [TS]

00:05:24   weight policy which states and this is a [TS]

00:05:26   quote from the article although I don't [TS]

00:05:27   know if it's quote from the policy [TS]

00:05:29   articles should not give minority views [TS]

00:05:32   as much or as detailed the description [TS]

00:05:33   as more popular views so the Wikipedian [TS]

00:05:37   said you should not delete information [TS]

00:05:38   supported by the majority of sources to [TS]

00:05:40   replace it with a minority view so his [TS]

00:05:42   view that evidence was presented was a [TS]

00:05:44   minority view because they had tons of [TS]

00:05:45   sources citing the fact that evidence [TS]

00:05:47   wasn't presented and the undue weight [TS]

00:05:49   thing is I mean he's adding the truth [TS]

00:05:51   part the undo way of truth it's like if [TS]

00:05:52   every historian says X and you say Y you [TS]

00:05:58   you can't just delete X and put in your [TS]

00:06:00   Y even if it's actually true so this guy [TS]

00:06:03   waited two years until his book on this [TS]

00:06:06   historical event was published and he [TS]

00:06:08   said now a-ha now I have a proper [TS]

00:06:10   Wikipedia leg to stand on because he [TS]

00:06:12   could cite see his book was published [TS]

00:06:13   write a book on the topic of his event [TS]

00:06:16   now he can cite that and so he did a big [TS]

00:06:19   update citing his own book on the topic [TS]

00:06:21   and it got reverted again pretty quickly [TS]

00:06:24   and the Wikipedian says as a by way of [TS]

00:06:27   explaining why this is reverted if all [TS]

00:06:29   historians save one say that the sky was [TS]

00:06:31   green in 1888 our policies require that [TS]

00:06:34   we write most historians write that the [TS]

00:06:35   sky was green but one says the sky was [TS]

00:06:37   blue [TS]

00:06:38   as individual editors we are not in the [TS]

00:06:40   business of weighing claims just [TS]

00:06:41   reporting what reliable sources right [TS]

00:06:42   and so you should follow the link in the [TS]

00:06:45   show notes if you want to read this [TS]

00:06:46   entire article it is a pretty close echo [TS]

00:06:49   of my experience albeit but much more [TS]

00:06:51   academic rigor and importance than you [TS]

00:06:53   know some little thing about the finder [TS]

00:06:55   and many people sent it to me because [TS]

00:06:57   it's such a echo what we talked about so [TS]

00:06:58   so there you go that's my only follow up [TS]

00:07:00   and I had to say that because the sheer [TS]

00:07:02   weight of pointers to that article is [TS]

00:07:05   overwhelming you were you were [TS]

00:07:07   overwhelmed yes okay that's a nice your [TS]

00:07:12   only follow that's it and I have one [TS]

00:07:15   topic right before we get the mountain [TS]

00:07:17   line which is mountain lion related it [TS]

00:07:18   actually is a mountain lion topic so [TS]

00:07:21   someone named Kenneth REITs REI TZ [TS]

00:07:25   apparently involved in the homebrew [TS]

00:07:28   project the thing lets you compile UNIX [TS]

00:07:29   software mac OS 10 without having to [TS]

00:07:31   deal with all that make files and [TS]

00:07:32   everything right very handy it's way [TS]

00:07:34   better than other attempts like Mac [TS]

00:07:36   ports were at putting this together you [TS]

00:07:38   install homebrew you type brew space [TS]

00:07:40   install space and the name of the [TS]

00:07:43   utility that you want installed it just [TS]

00:07:45   does it it's genius it's perfect it [TS]

00:07:47   obfuscates all of the tutorials that I [TS]

00:07:50   wrote over the many many years on high [TS]

00:07:52   villages it's a genius I wish they [TS]

00:07:54   called it something else but it's grown [TS]

00:07:55   on me and I just edit it obfuscates your [TS]

00:07:58   articles doesn't obfuscate [TS]

00:08:00   well mother obviates the need for yeah [TS]

00:08:04   that's a better way to say it thank you [TS]

00:08:05   anyway yeah so he was annoyed and [TS]

00:08:09   several people I can imagine being [TS]

00:08:10   annoyed by the fact that if you want if [TS]

00:08:11   you want to do any of this stuff you [TS]

00:08:13   want to compile software for Mac OS 10 [TS]

00:08:15   you need to have the compiler the Empire [TS]

00:08:18   is installed by default and the [TS]

00:08:20   traditional way to install the compiler [TS]

00:08:21   according to Apple is I'll just install [TS]

00:08:22   the development right which is like a [TS]

00:08:24   terabytes of stuff it's like you know [TS]

00:08:27   1.3 gigs worth of Xcode and all the [TS]

00:08:30   stuff that comes with it and just as [TS]

00:08:31   huge amount of stuff like geez I just [TS]

00:08:32   want like GCC in the headers and and [TS]

00:08:34   though you know it's like you have to [TS]

00:08:37   download the entire Internet onto your [TS]

00:08:38   back just to be able to compile you know [TS]

00:08:41   W get and I mean personally I I found it [TS]

00:08:45   a little absurd to but I tend to want to [TS]

00:08:47   have the dev tools because I like being [TS]

00:08:48   able to just fire up a project or open [TS]

00:08:50   someone else's source code or whatever [TS]

00:08:51   for people who aren't into that I can [TS]

00:08:52   see how it's annoying so he made his own [TS]

00:08:54   little OS ten GCC installer which was [TS]

00:08:57   just like let me just rip out the [TS]

00:08:59   command line parts and wrap that up into [TS]

00:09:01   an easy to install package so say oh if [TS]

00:09:03   you just want to use homebrew to like [TS]

00:09:04   install some little open-source piece of [TS]

00:09:07   software right you don't need all of [TS]

00:09:09   xcode just get my little installer was [TS]

00:09:10   like you know 100 Meg's or something and [TS]

00:09:12   it will put all that stuff in there and [TS]

00:09:13   it was a little bit sketchy because [TS]

00:09:14   there's some files that he couldn't [TS]

00:09:16   distribute that were part of xcode [TS]

00:09:18   because because of licensing [TS]

00:09:21   restrictions you know they weren't GPL [TS]

00:09:22   then he was mixing with GPL all that [TS]

00:09:23   stuff so as part of mountain lion [TS]

00:09:26   actually Apple contacted him and talked [TS]

00:09:28   to him about that tool and then didn't [TS]

00:09:30   say anything well and as part of [TS]

00:09:31   mountain line suddenly Apple has an [TS]

00:09:32   official command-line tools for Xcode [TS]

00:09:35   download which is 171 megabytes it's [TS]

00:09:37   officially from Apple totally supported [TS]

00:09:38   and if you just want to use homebrew to [TS]

00:09:40   install some UNIX software you no longer [TS]

00:09:42   have to download gigabytes of Xcode just [TS]

00:09:44   go get this free download link is in the [TS]

00:09:46   show notes and it's directly from Apple [TS]

00:09:48   and great there's even there's even a [TS]

00:09:50   supported way now to uninstall the [TS]

00:09:52   developer tools I'm not sure if this was [TS]

00:09:54   around before but he's suggesting in the [TS]

00:09:57   link that in the story that he wrote [TS]

00:09:59   that you link to that you can and [TS]

00:10:02   potentially should uninstall the [TS]

00:10:05   developer tools I'll tell you what I'll [TS]

00:10:06   tell you where this is this is really [TS]

00:10:07   useful or I'll tell you who this is [TS]

00:10:08   useful for and and and why I really am [TS]

00:10:11   thrilled about this is we use a number [TS]

00:10:13   of Mac minis behind the scenes for for [TS]

00:10:16   5x5 and I host them over at Mac Mini [TS]

00:10:18   Colo net and what a pain it is to have [TS]

00:10:21   to go and install Xcode you know remote [TS]

00:10:24   to the machine visually install Xcode [TS]

00:10:27   wait for it to download and all of that [TS]

00:10:29   stuff when I'm never gonna launch Xcode [TS]

00:10:32   on a remote Mac Mini I just but I do [TS]

00:10:34   need it to build a do need to build some [TS]

00:10:38   of these tools that's a great thing and [TS]

00:10:39   again for people who have no interest in [TS]

00:10:42   running Xcode ever maybe their rails [TS]

00:10:44   developers but they need to install [TS]

00:10:46   things locally or they wanted you know [TS]

00:10:47   who knows this is so great and it's so [TS]

00:10:50   great to see that Apple reached out to [TS]

00:10:52   the guy and integrated it instead of [TS]

00:10:56   just doing something like it and you [TS]

00:10:59   know they involved them it was nice [TS]

00:11:04   my mute key isn't working in Skype [TS]

00:11:06   anymore it started like two weeks ago [TS]

00:11:07   you and Marco both wanting to mute [TS]

00:11:09   constantly what's going on you have to [TS]

00:11:11   me asking about the shuttle I have a [TS]

00:11:13   cold now I'm blowing my nose that just [TS]

00:11:14   blew my nose hope you didn't hear it no [TS]

00:11:16   I did menu and do it all right on this [TS]

00:11:19   line uninstalling the dev tools with [TS]

00:11:21   that tool from Apple that makes me feel [TS]

00:11:22   good when they provided tool for because [TS]

00:11:24   then you expect it to work very hot and [TS]

00:11:26   there's an interesting reason why you [TS]

00:11:27   might want to uninstall them because the [TS]

00:11:29   new way Xcode works which we might get [TS]

00:11:31   to depending on how we go all right so [TS]

00:11:33   that's that's Mountain Lion related [TS]

00:11:35   because that was released at the same [TS]

00:11:36   time as Mountain Lion so now now I'm [TS]

00:11:37   lion feels like I just did our Maximus [TS]

00:11:41   then review doesn't it feel like that it [TS]

00:11:43   feels like I didn't I just do this I'm [TS]

00:11:44   still almost recovering yeah some people [TS]

00:11:48   haven't finished reading it yet it just [TS]

00:11:51   shows they got to the boring part it's [TS]

00:11:53   true couldn't recover I got people [TS]

00:11:55   tweeted me this they must have like you [TS]

00:11:56   know got to a boring part and stopped [TS]

00:11:57   reading and just that all go back to [TS]

00:11:59   some other time and now there's another [TS]

00:12:00   OS announced yeah where do you want to [TS]

00:12:04   start with this there's so much ready [TS]

00:12:06   want to start I have the only thing I [TS]

00:12:07   definitely do want to talk about is [TS]

00:12:08   gatekeeper but we can start any place [TS]

00:12:11   you want ah gatekeeper is probably an [TS]

00:12:14   excellent place to start if that's where [TS]

00:12:16   you'd like one thing I would like to ask [TS]

00:12:18   before that [TS]

00:12:19   have you tried out messages in in place [TS]

00:12:23   of iChat I have oh I installed it and [TS]

00:12:26   played with it a little bit I didn't I [TS]

00:12:27   haven't been using it using it for I am [TS]

00:12:28   did you uninstall it no not yet I used [TS]

00:12:32   it for a day and I uninstalled it and [TS]

00:12:34   I'll tell you the only reason that I did [TS]

00:12:37   this I loved the functionality that it [TS]

00:12:39   brought but there is something that was [TS]

00:12:40   going on with it there's a little bit a [TS]

00:12:42   little bit jarring and I'm curious to [TS]

00:12:45   know if you experienced this because I [TS]

00:12:47   know you have complained about similar [TS]

00:12:51   things there's a little there's a little [TS]

00:12:53   sidebar or if you want to call it a [TS]

00:12:54   left-hand pane that has a list of the [TS]

00:12:57   people that you are chatting with if you [TS]

00:12:59   have multiple chats to three at a time [TS]

00:13:02   and when you send or receive a new [TS]

00:13:05   message the person for whom you have [TS]

00:13:07   communicated just then with that their [TS]

00:13:10   name which is actually it's relatively [TS]

00:13:13   tall kind of kind of block on the left [TS]

00:13:16   hand pane will [TS]

00:13:17   Lyde up above the other ones and if you [TS]

00:13:20   happen to be receiving multiple messages [TS]

00:13:22   at one time or within closed time to [TS]

00:13:26   each other the this this left-hand pane [TS]

00:13:28   is constantly shifting and sliding up [TS]

00:13:31   and up and down and other things moving [TS]

00:13:32   around and you're like why is this thing [TS]

00:13:34   moving constantly your click target to [TS]

00:13:37   pick the person is constantly changing [TS]

00:13:40   and it's a sort of jarring activity that [TS]

00:13:43   seems to be happening by itself in a [TS]

00:13:46   slightly disturbing way at now people [TS]

00:13:50   have been quick to point out well this [TS]

00:13:52   is exactly the way that it works on the [TS]

00:13:53   iPad this is the same way the iMessage [TS]

00:13:55   app works on the iPad and that's exactly [TS]

00:13:58   why I don't use it on the iPad because I [TS]

00:14:00   don't like seeing now it's a little less [TS]

00:14:02   jarring because of course with [TS]

00:14:03   everything on iOS it's a full screen app [TS]

00:14:05   using this in the full screen didn't [TS]

00:14:08   really solve it it just kind of seemed [TS]

00:14:09   silly [TS]

00:14:09   so wondering if you notice that there's [TS]

00:14:12   no way to turn it off apparently you [TS]

00:14:14   should I think there's a prep because I [TS]

00:14:16   recall seeing a preference for reorder [TS]

00:14:19   the sidebar thing I'm not don't have the [TS]

00:14:22   messages happen from me now so I can't [TS]

00:14:23   like were you sure there's not a [TS]

00:14:24   preference for that I it's certainly [TS]

00:14:26   possible that I missed it of course I [TS]

00:14:28   could have missed there you uninstalled [TS]

00:14:29   it by now see again well it's easy to [TS]

00:14:31   put it back but I don't have it on the [TS]

00:14:33   computer anymore because it was going [TS]

00:14:35   crazy but here's here's the thing I [TS]

00:14:37   thought that you it was when that [TS]

00:14:40   sorting menu when I had the thing [TS]

00:14:42   selected and went to the View menu went [TS]

00:14:43   to the sort I thought it was for the [TS]

00:14:45   regular buddy list there wasn't anything [TS]

00:14:47   in there that I assignment well I should [TS]

00:14:49   join the chatroom I then see if they're [TS]

00:14:51   shouting in there of course you can [TS]

00:14:53   change it they're not he's I don't know [TS]

00:14:54   how many people have used iMessage but I [TS]

00:14:55   could swear there was an option in there [TS]

00:14:56   I'd oh yeah animation like that I don't [TS]

00:14:59   like seeing things move out of the [TS]

00:15:00   corner of my eye yeah I don't use I [TS]

00:15:02   don't use iChat I use a diem for my I am [TS]

00:15:05   so that's that's why having installed is [TS]

00:15:07   not going to bother me because I'd never [TS]

00:15:09   use that but I don't like the UI so far [TS]

00:15:11   and I know I don't like things [TS]

00:15:12   integrated into one window I like [TS]

00:15:14   separate windows for people I like but [TS]

00:15:15   Adium remembers the size and position of [TS]

00:15:17   my separate windows yeah you know so I [TS]

00:15:20   don't think I'll be using that I really [TS]

00:15:21   what I was really hoping for is that [TS]

00:15:22   they would break out FaceTime from it [TS]

00:15:25   they're like oh now finally they're [TS]

00:15:27   gonna have messages which will just be [TS]

00:15:29   for text-based things that folds in SM [TS]

00:15:31   SN aim and jabber and all that other [TS]

00:15:33   stuff right and then they'll have [TS]

00:15:34   FaceTime which is clearly the video [TS]

00:15:35   beside chat was weird because it was [TS]

00:15:36   like you did video there too but you [TS]

00:15:38   also have the FaceTime application so [TS]

00:15:40   you know is this big consolidation of [TS]

00:15:41   applications that they're doing a [TS]

00:15:43   mountain line like finally they'll [TS]

00:15:44   they'll separate stuff out but no it's [TS]

00:15:46   still this video so I'm confused how [TS]

00:15:47   messages has anything to do with video [TS]

00:15:49   or screen sharing but you know baby [TS]

00:15:52   steps I guess actually before we get to [TS]

00:15:55   gate keeper I'll talk about two minor [TS]

00:15:57   topics one is the super weird release [TS]

00:16:02   experience or at least weird for Apple [TS]

00:16:05   the idea that there's no no invitation [TS]

00:16:08   that goes out in the mail with a little [TS]

00:16:09   picture and some words and press doesn't [TS]

00:16:11   fly to California and stand in front of [TS]

00:16:12   people and they get presented instead [TS]

00:16:14   they call individual people in the media [TS]

00:16:16   have them come in secret and give them a [TS]

00:16:19   keynote for one where they do the [TS]

00:16:22   keynote presentation and you're the only [TS]

00:16:24   one in the audience yeah I guess I [TS]

00:16:25   wonder if you feel like you have to [TS]

00:16:26   applaud like yeah hey good good chop [TS]

00:16:28   fill but he needs the feedback or just [TS]

00:16:30   sit there stone-faced with your arms [TS]

00:16:32   folded [TS]

00:16:32   but Gruber had a great post about his [TS]

00:16:34   experience doing that and as far as I [TS]

00:16:37   know he's the only one who's posted [TS]

00:16:38   about his experiences doing that and [TS]

00:16:40   that this is just it's just weird for [TS]

00:16:42   Apple this is a change in the way that [TS]

00:16:44   they release things and as Gruber [TS]

00:16:46   alluded to the obvious question which [TS]

00:16:48   she was too uncomfortable to ask is you [TS]

00:16:51   know we're doing things differently now [TS]

00:16:53   now being like after Steve has gone you [TS]

00:16:56   don't want to bring that up obviously [TS]

00:16:57   it's a little insensitive but it it's [TS]

00:17:00   hard not to make that connection that [TS]

00:17:01   now apple's decided to do things [TS]

00:17:03   differently and you know how many years [TS]

00:17:06   have Steve did we have from 1997 until [TS]

00:17:09   2011 and then he leaves and suddenly the [TS]

00:17:11   way they do things changes it could just [TS]

00:17:12   be a natural evolution this was going to [TS]

00:17:13   happen anyway [TS]

00:17:14   and it also could just be an experiment [TS]

00:17:16   that Apple's trying but that totally [TS]

00:17:18   caught me by surprise that they would [TS]

00:17:20   not actually have an event for this you [TS]

00:17:23   know it didn't even get the homepage I [TS]

00:17:25   didn't even get the Apple comm homepage [TS]

00:17:27   the iPhone 4 I stayed there the whole [TS]

00:17:28   time mountain lion just got like one of [TS]

00:17:29   the three boxes and the bottom so that [TS]

00:17:33   was very surprising to me a mountain [TS]

00:17:37   lion itself I think has too many [TS]

00:17:40   syllables too many syllables too many [TS]

00:17:43   syllables it is the is there [TS]

00:17:45   record-holder for the largest number of [TS]

00:17:46   syllables a big cat name right the [TS]

00:17:48   previous record-holder was snow leopard [TS]

00:17:50   with just three mountain minus 4 you [TS]

00:17:53   could slur together if you want uh but [TS]

00:17:56   it does doesn't roll off the tongue by [TS]

00:17:57   but they dropped mac from mac OS so and [TS]

00:18:00   maybe they have a quote they bought it [TS]

00:18:01   yeah they had to they have to keep it [TS]

00:18:03   they had to keep it up [TS]

00:18:04   it had a limit rather a limit on [TS]

00:18:06   syllables they were we afford speak over [TS]

00:18:08   three syllables in the cat name we got a [TS]

00:18:09   cut one off or I drop the Mac but they [TS]

00:18:11   were doing that the last time with lion [TS]

00:18:12   they were doing OS 10 lion all over the [TS]

00:18:14   place but they were inconsistent some [TS]

00:18:15   things that Mac some things as I was ten [TS]

00:18:17   seems like like the marketing department [TS]

00:18:20   really wanted always ten lion but a lot [TS]

00:18:23   of the code and the developers you know [TS]

00:18:25   all over the all over the actual OS [TS]

00:18:27   itself you could see Mac os10 [TS]

00:18:28   I'll be interesting see a mountain lion [TS]

00:18:30   if the marketing department puts its [TS]

00:18:32   foot down with the developers and says [TS]

00:18:35   every place that this operating system [TS]

00:18:37   name appears in the operating system [TS]

00:18:39   itself get rid of the Mac part well they [TS]

00:18:40   have it is it is official it's been [TS]

00:18:42   covered in some different places but [TS]

00:18:43   Nilay Patel friend of mine over at the [TS]

00:18:45   verge has a little article which I will [TS]

00:18:48   put into the show notes that he actually [TS]

00:18:52   here here's what he says there's an [TS]

00:18:54   equally big change quietly afoot in the [TS]

00:18:56   Mac the Mac in Mac OS 10 is no more [TS]

00:18:59   instead Apple's desktop operating system [TS]

00:19:01   is now simply called OS 10 we confirm [TS]

00:19:03   the official name change with Apple who [TS]

00:19:05   told us that the preferred full name is [TS]

00:19:08   OS 10 mountain lion and a quick look [TS]

00:19:11   around the company's new mountain lion [TS]

00:19:12   pages reveals that the tweak is already [TS]

00:19:14   well in effect that's not to say that [TS]

00:19:16   the Mac brand has been demoted as it's [TS]

00:19:18   still used throughout Apple site it [TS]

00:19:20   appears that Mac is being used to [TS]

00:19:21   identify hardware products while OS 10 [TS]

00:19:23   refers to the software as with [TS]

00:19:25   everything else about mountain lion that [TS]

00:19:27   matches the iOS naming scheme of calling [TS]

00:19:28   the iPhone and iPad by separate names [TS]

00:19:31   than the other than the OS etc etc so [TS]

00:19:33   yeah and that was probably the real [TS]

00:19:37   policy in line I don't know of anyone [TS]

00:19:39   who's never asked that but having the [TS]

00:19:40   policy and actually expunging all the [TS]

00:19:42   instances of the capital m.a.c from the [TS]

00:19:45   strings that are part of the operating [TS]

00:19:47   system are two separate things so we'll [TS]

00:19:49   see if they get that consistent I [TS]

00:19:50   seriously speaking what like why did [TS]

00:19:52   they leave Mac off the is did he say [TS]

00:19:56   that Apple said that they're trying to [TS]

00:19:58   leave Mac on [TS]

00:19:59   for hardware is he just deriving that [TS]

00:20:00   from the fact that it's still attached [TS]

00:20:02   to the hardware but not attached to the [TS]

00:20:03   software I think the latter I think he [TS]

00:20:05   is that is his what is he reading [TS]

00:20:09   yeah he's inferring that from what [TS]

00:20:10   they're saying I think he's probably [TS]

00:20:12   right and it would make sense but yeah [TS]

00:20:16   he did I don't think that they told him [TS]

00:20:17   that yeah I could ask him I think [TS]

00:20:20   leaving off the Mac oh I'm just [TS]

00:20:25   speculating just like he was but it [TS]

00:20:26   strikes me as a recognition that like it [TS]

00:20:32   or not having a Mac even in this day and [TS]

00:20:35   age is still there's like a stigma [TS]

00:20:37   attached like you're not like you don't [TS]

00:20:39   have a PC you have a Mac and they want [TS]

00:20:44   the brand of the operating system not to [TS]

00:20:46   be tied to any of the baggage that might [TS]

00:20:50   be the bad baggage that comes along with [TS]

00:20:52   Mac as far as mass market penetration [TS]

00:20:54   goes like I see it as trying to crank up [TS]

00:20:59   the glass ceiling on possible Mac [TS]

00:21:01   ownership because you know iPhone is [TS]

00:21:03   sound like gangbusters and everything [TS]

00:21:04   like that but it's like vote my one of [TS]

00:21:06   my favorite things to think about is [TS]

00:21:07   what is the glass ceiling on Mac market [TS]

00:21:10   share in the PC market now it could be [TS]

00:21:12   just the PC market become so unimportant [TS]

00:21:13   that who that cares but still now even [TS]

00:21:15   the Mac growing like crazy and [TS]

00:21:17   outgrowing the market for you know six [TS]

00:21:18   years running [TS]

00:21:20   what are they at like now single-digit [TS]

00:21:23   percentage is still the PC market maybe [TS]

00:21:25   double depending on where you're [TS]

00:21:26   measuring it from I think it's still [TS]

00:21:28   single but yeah and and you end so maybe [TS]

00:21:32   they're like look we need some Headroom [TS]

00:21:33   here now that the PC market is that [TS]

00:21:36   important clearly the future is in iOS [TS]

00:21:37   and all that stuff but what geez [TS]

00:21:39   wouldn't it be nice to have everyone [TS]

00:21:41   using a Mac and maybe they think one of [TS]

00:21:43   the barriers there is the Mac name I [TS]

00:21:46   don't know this is the type of thing [TS]

00:21:48   that they're not going to talk about [TS]

00:21:49   they're going to tell you what they're [TS]

00:21:49   doing and maybe give you a picture I [TS]

00:21:53   think you'll believe but I'm not sure [TS]

00:21:54   what the real reason is but the fact [TS]

00:21:56   that there's lots of extra syllables is [TS]

00:21:58   just as a good enough reason as far as [TS]

00:21:59   I'm concerned so the short one that [TS]

00:22:01   everyone is using is mul oh you're down [TS]

00:22:03   with that Molo molo from mountain lion [TS]

00:22:06   No [TS]

00:22:07   I haven't even turned yet I think with [TS]

00:22:09   JLo the first one to do is horrible [TS]

00:22:12   JLo Joe como lo it's terrible [TS]

00:22:15   you know like Malo people doing in [TS]

00:22:17   tweets busy I don't have room and you [TS]

00:22:19   know why not this 10.8 I mean you need a [TS]

00:22:23   text expander shortcut if you're writing [TS]

00:22:24   an article about it just you can type [TS]

00:22:26   molo and then it's panda mole oh yeah [TS]

00:22:31   terrible yeah so we continue it and so [TS]

00:22:35   as for the yearly thing no more yeah [TS]

00:22:38   yeah for everyone so for people who [TS]

00:22:41   don't know what this is apple also [TS]

00:22:42   announced that they are on now a yearly [TS]

00:22:45   schedule for OS 10 releases so the 10.8 [TS]

00:22:50   will be coming out and from from the [TS]

00:22:52   release of 10.8 every year we're going [TS]

00:22:55   to have a new version of the of the [TS]

00:23:00   operating system they were not clear [TS]

00:23:02   whether that was going to be a version [TS]

00:23:08   in other words like we had lion which [TS]

00:23:10   was big now we have mountain lion which [TS]

00:23:12   even though it has the sub cat name the [TS]

00:23:16   way that leopard had Snow Leopard if we [TS]

00:23:19   remember back to snow leopard Snow [TS]

00:23:21   Leopard they really didn't introduce new [TS]

00:23:23   features they just made everything [TS]

00:23:24   better faster and more stable and as [TS]

00:23:27   I've mentioned on the other shows in my [TS]

00:23:29   experience and most experience of people [TS]

00:23:31   i've talked with it has been one of the [TS]

00:23:33   most if not the most stable bug-free [TS]

00:23:35   release of OS 10 in history Snow Leopard [TS]

00:23:39   now mountain lion is not - Snow Leopard [TS]

00:23:44   what you know it's not an acquits not [TS]

00:23:46   bug fixes more stable I mean maybe we'll [TS]

00:23:49   get that but it's plenty of new features [TS]

00:23:51   it's a lot of redesign it's a bunch of [TS]

00:23:53   new stuff and the implication is that [TS]

00:23:56   they're moving forward they're plowing [TS]

00:23:57   ahead does that concern you at all [TS]

00:23:59   because I know you've expressed what [TS]

00:24:01   what I have expressed also which is that [TS]

00:24:03   lion is not always maybe as reliable and [TS]

00:24:06   stable as we'd like it to be well the [TS]

00:24:09   first concern is about uh writing [TS]

00:24:12   schedules can I write something as long [TS]

00:24:14   as I've used them in writing every year [TS]

00:24:16   and that's exacerbated by the fact that [TS]

00:24:20   that if they stick the summer releases [TS]

00:24:22   you know quote-unquote coming out in [TS]

00:24:24   summer whatever that that means and [TS]

00:24:26   guess when WWDC is it's also summer none [TS]

00:24:30   of them neither one of those things have [TS]

00:24:32   actual dates and I do rely on the [TS]

00:24:34   information disseminated at WABC [TS]

00:24:38   and a tremendous amount when writing my [TS]

00:24:41   reviews so it's it's the same place we [TS]

00:24:43   were with line like oh geez are they [TS]

00:24:44   going to release it before the show in [TS]

00:24:45   which case that I'm screwed either way [TS]

00:24:47   are they going to release it at the show [TS]

00:24:50   I'm still kind of screwed if they [TS]

00:24:51   release it two weeks after the show then [TS]

00:24:53   I'd still like to go because maybe if I [TS]

00:24:55   don't go to the W everybody see they [TS]

00:24:58   talk about it and then two weeks later [TS]

00:25:00   released the OS and then release the [TS]

00:25:02   videos and so I won't have no time to [TS]

00:25:03   watch the stuff or say they release the [TS]

00:25:05   videos right the day after watc and then [TS]

00:25:07   I have to watch them all you know in [TS]

00:25:10   time to beat the release date so it adds [TS]

00:25:14   a lot of uncertainty for me about what [TS]

00:25:17   kind of volume I can produce and how [TS]

00:25:19   much detail I can go into and whether I [TS]

00:25:21   can get the information I need because [TS]

00:25:23   it really depends on when WWC Falls and [TS]

00:25:25   when the releases so I'm very nervous [TS]

00:25:26   about that I now as for the content of [TS]

00:25:29   the release you would assume that if [TS]

00:25:33   they're going to go yearly they can't [TS]

00:25:34   put as much stuff in maybe that's not [TS]

00:25:37   true I obviously you said you know snow [TS]

00:25:41   leopards and you know no new features ah [TS]

00:25:43   but they spent a long time on it it's [TS]

00:25:46   not it when people think about did they [TS]

00:25:48   put lots of why should I buy it did the [TS]

00:25:49   plots of stuff and it's like they want [TS]

00:25:51   to see stuff they can seen screenshots [TS]

00:25:52   so I measured in that regard [TS]

00:25:54   Mountain Lion has all much new stuff has [TS]

00:25:57   got tirely new applications new [TS]

00:25:59   interfaces for old applications you know [TS]

00:26:01   if you were just a look at screenshot [TS]

00:26:03   you see that look you say that looks [TS]

00:26:04   nothing like line I don't have that on [TS]

00:26:05   line and that Sun you know but does that [TS]

00:26:08   take longer that take more time and [TS]

00:26:10   effort than Snow Leopard and do they [TS]

00:26:12   have as much time for internal changes [TS]

00:26:15   which I usually have a whole section [TS]

00:26:16   dedicated to internal changes maybe [TS]

00:26:17   there won't be a lot of internal changes [TS]

00:26:19   so I don't know how I'm going to play [TS]

00:26:21   this in terms of getting the review done [TS]

00:26:23   and how much how much is there actually [TS]

00:26:24   to write about in one year every single [TS]

00:26:26   year maybe maybe they still will do kind [TS]

00:26:31   of a tick-tock model in the Intel model [TS]

00:26:33   where [TS]

00:26:34   they'll do lots of core OS changes and [TS]

00:26:36   then they'll add a bunch of fancy apps [TS]

00:26:38   and then Correll has changed since bunch [TS]

00:26:39   of fancy apps the line would be like the [TS]

00:26:41   core OS changes and to fancy apps like [TS]

00:26:44   they redid the address book and some [TS]

00:26:46   other stuff and they mangled Safari and [TS]

00:26:48   you know but it wasn't like this this is [TS]

00:26:50   like you know all those apps you know [TS]

00:26:51   and love that use all the time well [TS]

00:26:53   we're just we're redoing them all and [TS]

00:26:55   yeah some of them we already redid in [TS]

00:26:56   line so you already got the new mail and [TS]

00:26:57   we're not really going crazy with that [TS]

00:26:58   and the new address book will trying to [TS]

00:27:00   tweak a little bit but I chat is gone [TS]

00:27:03   iCal is renamed we're adding you know [TS]

00:27:06   Notification Center and a new notes [TS]

00:27:08   application and just you know that's a [TS]

00:27:11   lot of stuff but I don't know if that [TS]

00:27:13   stuff takes longer than creating a Grand [TS]

00:27:17   Central Dispatch or you know core image [TS]

00:27:20   or something like that or one of those [TS]

00:27:21   core features that came along and the [TS]

00:27:23   other big releases so we're in uncharted [TS]

00:27:27   territory here I don't quite know how [TS]

00:27:29   it's going to go and I don't know what [TS]

00:27:32   kind of beast mountain line is really [TS]

00:27:34   going to be in terms of writing review [TS]

00:27:37   and actually what content is in the OS I [TS]

00:27:41   was very surprised that they released [TS]

00:27:43   the the Developer Preview to at the same [TS]

00:27:45   time although Velma stuff that stuff's [TS]

00:27:48   under NDA right like they have videos in [TS]

00:27:50   their site and any reporter who wrote [TS]

00:27:52   about stuff based on their press [TS]

00:27:53   briefing oh that's fair game but I still [TS]

00:27:56   can't talk about like the stuff that's [TS]

00:27:58   on the developer side right I don't I [TS]

00:28:01   don't know what the rule is on it I [TS]

00:28:02   think so I obviously I can't talk about [TS]

00:28:06   that but there are some internal changes [TS]

00:28:07   they've just started looking at them but [TS]

00:28:09   what's interesting though into that [TS]

00:28:12   point is gosh we get to do our first [TS]

00:28:14   sponsor too but to your point there it [TS]

00:28:17   seems like a lot of the attendees of WDC [TS]

00:28:21   for example there was a really big [TS]

00:28:23   article on panics blog yesterday we all [TS]

00:28:26   know and love panic that they seem to [TS]

00:28:30   have some deep familiarity with a lot of [TS]

00:28:32   the things that were going on in in [TS]

00:28:33   mountain lion I didn't attend WWDC but [TS]

00:28:37   how much of this was common knowledge I [TS]

00:28:39   mean it sound it sure did sound like I [TS]

00:28:41   mean maybe they went to the to the press [TS]

00:28:44   thing they were brought out there I [TS]

00:28:45   don't know they got briefed [TS]

00:28:46   they got briefed that's a [TS]

00:28:47   in brief I think I think one of the [TS]

00:28:49   reasons they got briefed is because they [TS]

00:28:50   made a lot of noise about sandboxing and [TS]

00:28:52   they're a prominent Mac developer and so [TS]

00:28:54   on and so forth [TS]

00:28:56   ah that's incidentally what when the [TS]

00:28:58   announcement came I knew that there was [TS]

00:29:00   something coming but I didn't know the [TS]

00:29:02   details and I also knew about mountain [TS]

00:29:05   lion but I didn't put two and two [TS]

00:29:06   together I'm like well it's not gonna be [TS]

00:29:07   a mountain lion cuz they always send out [TS]

00:29:08   invitations for that so it's got to be [TS]

00:29:10   something else so I was sure it was [TS]

00:29:11   going to be a sandboxing thing because [TS]

00:29:12   developers have a wing for sandboxing [TS]

00:29:14   like a decision from Apple and what to [TS]

00:29:15   do about the whole sandboxing thing like [TS]

00:29:16   keep moving the deadline for enforcing [TS]

00:29:18   sandboxing on all Mac App Store apps and [TS]

00:29:21   that's the type of thing they could do [TS]

00:29:22   without a press thing or announcement so [TS]

00:29:24   I was very surprised when the next day [TS]

00:29:26   Mountain Lion is is here but still no [TS]

00:29:30   announcement on sandboxing and so I [TS]

00:29:32   think panic was brought in because that [TS]

00:29:34   you know there are company that has [TS]

00:29:36   expressed a lot of opinions about both [TS]

00:29:38   of these issues and I think Apple wanted [TS]

00:29:40   to sort of I don't know why I really [TS]

00:29:41   don't know the rhyme reason how Apple [TS]

00:29:43   chooses who to brief like for example I [TS]

00:29:45   think mg Siegler got briefed because [TS]

00:29:48   Jason Snell said he saw him on Apple's [TS]

00:29:50   campus of the day he was getting briefed [TS]

00:29:51   mm-hmm but Ars Technica did not get [TS]

00:29:54   briefed against mg Siegler but why does [TS]

00:29:57   he rate getting briefed but ours doesn't [TS]

00:29:59   like he's one he's one granted a [TS]

00:30:02   prominent blogger but I don't know I [TS]

00:30:06   don't I don't understand how a boy like [TS]

00:30:08   you would think all Apple just wants to [TS]

00:30:10   be people who always say nice things [TS]

00:30:11   about them well mg says he's not a you [TS]

00:30:13   know uncritical of Apple well will we [TS]

00:30:17   ever know will we ever understand I have [TS]

00:30:19   more questions for John Gruber today [TS]

00:30:21   when when we do his show after this one [TS]

00:30:24   as far as how the sort of logistics of [TS]

00:30:26   that work were they all gathered in a [TS]

00:30:28   big room ahead of time where they [TS]

00:30:30   brought up in separate shuttles [TS]

00:30:31   independently with a you know us a [TS]

00:30:34   burlap sack over there hey you know how [TS]

00:30:36   do they do how did they do it [TS]

00:30:37   Gruber points out that that uh Andy NACO [TS]

00:30:39   didn't get briefed either I mean that's [TS]

00:30:42   weird the PR people will call you day of [TS]

00:30:44   but who gets early access how do they [TS]

00:30:46   decide not that I begrudge the people [TS]

00:30:48   who got early access their their access [TS]

00:30:50   but it just seems weird like it's not [TS]

00:30:53   like they're blacklisting people it's [TS]

00:30:55   like look we just got a pic maybe they [TS]

00:30:56   take like one of each like we own one of [TS]

00:30:57   this type of thing one of this type of [TS]

00:30:58   thing and obviously you know the New [TS]

00:31:00   York Times The Wall Street Journal and [TS]

00:31:01   stuff [TS]

00:31:02   that that probably is still frustration [TS]

00:31:04   to people who are in this business it's [TS]

00:31:06   like what we feel like we're doing good [TS]

00:31:07   reporting on Apple and they if they're [TS]

00:31:10   going to be doing this thing where some [TS]

00:31:11   people get early access why don't we get [TS]

00:31:14   it and you don't want to get into the [TS]

00:31:15   game of like oh they only give it to the [TS]

00:31:17   people who write nice things I don't [TS]

00:31:18   think that's true I just think they have [TS]

00:31:20   people they like and have people they [TS]

00:31:21   don't like and that's totally their [TS]

00:31:23   right but it's got to be frustrating if [TS]

00:31:24   you're in this bit because it seems like [TS]

00:31:29   they are well man I understand where [TS]

00:31:33   Apple's coming from right and that you [TS]

00:31:34   don't necessarily want to tell everybody [TS]

00:31:36   but how why not Andy why not have all [TS]

00:31:41   people like you got in you got a brief [TS]

00:31:45   Andy I mean it's not he writes for the [TS]

00:31:47   Chicago sun-times it's not your [TS]

00:31:49   publication and and he's got a really [TS]

00:31:52   big show macbreak weekly I mean it seems [TS]

00:31:54   like he would be the right person now [TS]

00:31:57   anyway yeah and the whole idea like the [TS]

00:32:01   reason you get early access in the [TS]

00:32:02   regular non Apple world is because they [TS]

00:32:04   want to give people who are in the press [TS]

00:32:06   lead time to actually write about [TS]

00:32:08   something so the day of all of a sudden [TS]

00:32:10   a bunch of articles appear about the [TS]

00:32:11   topic about and in the rest of in any [TS]

00:32:13   other industry that's normal like you [TS]

00:32:15   give the car magazines an early look at [TS]

00:32:17   your car so they come to your Center and [TS]

00:32:20   do test drives and I go the whole nine [TS]

00:32:22   yards right and get and then they go [TS]

00:32:24   back and I write their big long article [TS]

00:32:26   about the preview of the new car and [TS]

00:32:27   then like a month later it appears on [TS]

00:32:29   newsstands all at the same time like you [TS]

00:32:30   know the embargo was lifted that's [TS]

00:32:31   that's how regular products always work [TS]

00:32:33   apples has not been like that ever in [TS]

00:32:35   the jobs to era and now they're starting [TS]

00:32:37   to be like that but they're they're [TS]

00:32:39   doing it weirdly like car companies for [TS]

00:32:41   example invite everybody you know if you [TS]

00:32:43   have a car magazine you're invited to [TS]

00:32:44   come out and then it seems that they [TS]

00:32:47   would do it based on like prominence [TS]

00:32:48   like who has a big audience so I don't I [TS]

00:32:51   don't know it's it's strange this is I [TS]

00:32:54   said it's uncharted territory for [TS]

00:32:55   everybody and I'm not sure how they can [TS]

00:32:58   do it and as I think you pointed out [TS]

00:33:00   because it you want on a on a Marcos [TS]

00:33:02   thing why not just invite all the press [TS]

00:33:03   at once why do the keynote for one why [TS]

00:33:06   have all the press in the same room do [TS]

00:33:08   presentation once you know that each [TS]

00:33:10   Coast you know or whatever you want to [TS]

00:33:12   do but individually seems like boy [TS]

00:33:14   Phil's got to be [TS]

00:33:15   prior to given that present right and [TS]

00:33:17   that's that's the John Gruber points out [TS]

00:33:19   he says oh man you know this thing was [TS]

00:33:20   rehearsed and prepared and it was well [TS]

00:33:22   he probably gave it 20 times already you [TS]

00:33:25   know that's why it was so prepared of [TS]

00:33:27   her is not saying I mean not to take [TS]

00:33:29   anything away from the guy clearly they [TS]

00:33:31   took it seriously and I bet you anything [TS]

00:33:33   that the first time was as good as the [TS]

00:33:34   20th time he did it but I mean it just [TS]

00:33:37   seems it seems very interesting and [TS]

00:33:42   weird to do it that way and it it I [TS]

00:33:45   think it's pretty cool in some ways I [TS]

00:33:48   mean it's gotta me and maybe that's why [TS]

00:33:50   they did it maybe they did it so that [TS]

00:33:52   each individual person who is being [TS]

00:33:53   brought in and briefed felt like it was [TS]

00:33:56   very very special and unique and just [TS]

00:34:00   for them and that's why they did it so [TS]

00:34:02   that each person felt like Apple was [TS]

00:34:05   saying to them we like you we trust you [TS]

00:34:08   be our emissary be our PR department and [TS]

00:34:11   we'll keep doing these really cool [TS]

00:34:12   things for you it's like when you [TS]

00:34:14   separate prisoners when you interrogate [TS]

00:34:15   them that's what it is you know I give [TS]

00:34:19   like after the keynotes they would pull [TS]

00:34:21   in the press to give like you know each [TS]

00:34:23   one goes individually talks to whoever [TS]

00:34:25   Apple represented they don't let they [TS]

00:34:26   don't do the thing where there's a guy [TS]

00:34:27   up there and a mic and a bunch of press [TS]

00:34:29   waving their notepads but they're 40 [TS]

00:34:33   style hats on saying mr. jobs mr. jobs I [TS]

00:34:36   wouldn't you know they don't want that [TS]

00:34:37   environment where the press becomes a [TS]

00:34:38   mob and they're there they're beholden [TS]

00:34:40   to the press times you know like the [TS]

00:34:41   briefing room in the White House that's [TS]

00:34:43   exactly the environment Apple never [TS]

00:34:45   wants to subject itself to they like a [TS]

00:34:47   controlled environment and if it's a [TS]

00:34:49   bunch of Apple guys and one reporter [TS]

00:34:51   that one reporter is clearly not the one [TS]

00:34:54   in control the situation but if you get [TS]

00:34:55   17 reporters and you get you give the [TS]

00:34:58   presentation fine give it to 17 you know [TS]

00:35:00   they do that all time they come to [TS]

00:35:01   California for press event all the press [TS]

00:35:02   it's in there they get the presentation [TS]

00:35:04   they're done but after that you [TS]

00:35:05   individually get pulled in to talk to [TS]

00:35:07   people about it it's not like they go [TS]

00:35:08   and now we will take questions because [TS]

00:35:10   that's a totally different dynamic yeah [TS]

00:35:12   and Apple clearly favors the dynamic [TS]

00:35:14   where they are the one in control we are [TS]

00:35:16   now presenting you listen no talking no [TS]

00:35:17   questions afterwards you will [TS]

00:35:19   individually come to a bunch of Apple [TS]

00:35:21   people and talk to them with the PR [TS]

00:35:23   person present and there'll be more [TS]

00:35:24   Apple people there than you and there's [TS]

00:35:26   no you will not be able to get [TS]

00:35:28   encouragement from [TS]

00:35:29   other reporters in the room and sort of [TS]

00:35:31   start getting that you know start [TS]

00:35:33   getting your reporter hat on and say [TS]

00:35:35   we're gonna ask about this what about [TS]

00:35:37   this yeah and what about you know they [TS]

00:35:38   don't like that but and it's kind of [TS]

00:35:40   silly like for the briefings up I guess [TS]

00:35:43   it's better to be brief than not to be [TS]

00:35:45   brief but the real issue is early access [TS]

00:35:47   like it's not so much the questions you [TS]

00:35:48   get to ask them because they're never [TS]

00:35:50   gonna it's not like well if I had been [TS]

00:35:52   briefed I could have asked this question [TS]

00:35:53   they would have answered it no they're [TS]

00:35:54   gonna do if they don't want to talk [TS]

00:35:55   about they're going to deflect the other [TS]

00:35:56   professionals here they're not going to [TS]

00:35:57   say hey when's the release date it's [TS]

00:35:59   like oh darn no one thought to ask that [TS]

00:36:00   yeah I asked it then they told me [TS]

00:36:02   they're not going to tell you the [TS]

00:36:02   release date if they decide they're not [TS]

00:36:04   going to tell you the release date but [TS]

00:36:05   it's the fact that you get to take the [TS]

00:36:07   thing home and use it for a week and [TS]

00:36:10   write about it while no one even knows [TS]

00:36:11   it exists so then the day comes out you [TS]

00:36:13   are there deign date with your review [TS]

00:36:16   which must have been this is gonna be a [TS]

00:36:18   strange change for Gruber too because he [TS]

00:36:20   just posted his review of the Steve Jobs [TS]

00:36:21   bio so he's used to being able to have a [TS]

00:36:23   leisurely pace if he's not ready to talk [TS]

00:36:25   about it he's not ready that'll be [TS]

00:36:26   interesting to give him an early look [TS]

00:36:27   and then he doesn't post anything yeah [TS]

00:36:29   all of a sudden no that's a really good [TS]

00:36:31   point and that that's something and he [TS]

00:36:33   said many times is that he likes to take [TS]

00:36:35   his time with stuff and I feel like [TS]

00:36:39   there's the expectation from Apple that [TS]

00:36:41   hey we're gonna give you a private [TS]

00:36:43   keynote and we're gonna send you away [TS]

00:36:45   with a MacBook Air they do have an [TS]

00:36:48   expectation there well there's a [TS]

00:36:51   difference between like I think the [TS]

00:36:52   reason Gruber doesn't want to feel rush [TS]

00:36:55   is because if if you found out about at [TS]

00:36:58   the same time as the rest of the general [TS]

00:36:59   populace the worst thing is to have to [TS]

00:37:01   go and now like get something up that [TS]

00:37:03   day because it's going to be sloppy and [TS]

00:37:05   not to a depth at it like that's not his [TS]

00:37:06   style and that's not the type of [TS]

00:37:07   publication he has yeah but if you give [TS]

00:37:10   if you give you a week with it that's [TS]

00:37:11   that's probably like enough time to to [TS]

00:37:14   get something significant like I think [TS]

00:37:15   mostly he's trying to avoid and I would [TS]

00:37:17   try to avoid too and I do try to avoid [TS]

00:37:19   with my reviews I don't want to like [TS]

00:37:21   have to come up with something day of [TS]

00:37:23   when I've just found out about it and [TS]

00:37:25   because it's just I don't I don't have [TS]

00:37:28   it all settled in my mind at that point [TS]

00:37:29   I don't want to have to write something [TS]

00:37:31   just because that's the kind of [TS]

00:37:32   publication we are we got to have [TS]

00:37:33   something up like this plenty places [TS]

00:37:34   that have to have something up report [TS]

00:37:35   the news give a little bit of commentary [TS]

00:37:37   but on that's not my style [TS]

00:37:39   so a week maybe more than enough time [TS]

00:37:42   to get something out Plus this isn't [TS]

00:37:44   review this is like a preview type of [TS]

00:37:46   thing I mean you saw this with line when [TS]

00:37:49   I never wanted to talk about it because [TS]

00:37:51   I want to save it all for my review I [TS]

00:37:53   still kind of feel that but if they're [TS]

00:37:54   going to go with yearly maybe that [TS]

00:37:56   doesn't fly anymore and maybe it's got [TS]

00:37:58   to be I still just don't want to do one [TS]

00:38:01   review I don't to do seven articles [TS]

00:38:02   about I just want to say look here's my [TS]

00:38:03   review here it is but before leading up [TS]

00:38:05   to it I can discuss it a little bit and [TS]

00:38:08   hash out I guess yeah alright usually [TS]

00:38:10   good at yeah we got to do our four way [TS]

00:38:12   behind way behind John yeah we had a [TS]

00:38:15   really good sponsor a new one I'm going [TS]

00:38:17   to tell you guys all about hover okay [TS]

00:38:20   however makes domain names symbol this [TS]

00:38:21   is what they do okay [TS]

00:38:23   this is like it's like a breath of fresh [TS]

00:38:24   air for domain names that's how I want [TS]

00:38:26   you to frame this in your mind when you [TS]

00:38:28   think about it so I'll tell you what [TS]

00:38:30   some let me tell you first with some [TS]

00:38:31   customers of theirs are saying I went on [TS]

00:38:33   this you heard of Twitter these that I [TS]

00:38:36   have but I muted alright I went I went [TS]

00:38:39   on there use the Twitter here's what [TS]

00:38:41   people saying moving to hover is like [TS]

00:38:43   walking through a dirty closet and [TS]

00:38:46   finding domain Narnia clean simple no [TS]

00:38:49   tricks no upselling and that's the thing [TS]

00:38:51   these guys they do not they do not [TS]

00:38:53   upsell and that's how you'll go around [TS]

00:38:55   you I don't want to name them the ones [TS]

00:38:56   that do this but you know who I'm [TS]

00:38:57   talking about they have it's it's [TS]

00:39:00   garbage you try to get in there you try [TS]

00:39:02   to register domain your ups are a [TS]

00:39:03   million different things oh you wanted [TS]

00:39:05   this you want to sign up for this click [TS]

00:39:07   here to not sign up for these 20 service [TS]

00:39:11   that's it's that's garbage [TS]

00:39:12   however com does not do that here's idea [TS]

00:39:15   they have smart simple tools their goal [TS]

00:39:17   is to make every function from a [TS]

00:39:19   renewing a domain name to changing your [TS]

00:39:20   password whatever it is is intuitive and [TS]

00:39:23   as easy could possibly be [TS]

00:39:25   they have like a FedEx style tracking [TS]

00:39:28   system so when you're doing your domain [TS]

00:39:30   name transfer it like it shows you where [TS]

00:39:32   it is visually in the process I mean [TS]

00:39:34   they're all about making this simple [TS]

00:39:38   they've got tons of helps and tutorials [TS]

00:39:41   they've got a wonderful team that takes [TS]

00:39:44   pride in solving problems if you call [TS]

00:39:46   them from 9 a.m. to 8 p.m. the phone [TS]

00:39:50   rings a human being answers right away [TS]

00:39:52   and they know they get it they'll help [TS]

00:39:54   you now [TS]

00:39:56   thing fancy just good intentions and a [TS]

00:39:57   really great execution so here's what [TS]

00:40:01   you do you go to hover.com slash dan [TS]

00:40:03   sent me and there's a special deal there [TS]

00:40:06   use a coupon code dan sent me just for [TS]

00:40:09   you guys ten percent off so go check it [TS]

00:40:12   out hover calm and if you're still in [TS]

00:40:15   GoDaddy and didn't manage to get all her [TS]

00:40:17   during the last big fit of everyone [TS]

00:40:19   getting off GoDaddy yeah I was just as [TS]

00:40:20   good a time as any why not yeah why wait [TS]

00:40:23   I think I still have one that I couldn't [TS]

00:40:26   get off GoDaddy I think I have like a [TS]

00:40:27   dot name that I couldn't find somebody [TS]

00:40:28   to take just see if Harper takes though [TS]

00:40:30   get off of there man yeah no I got I got [TS]

00:40:33   stuff off when he died and instead of [TS]

00:40:36   like consolidating I spread the love [TS]

00:40:37   around like all right take stuff off [TS]

00:40:39   just put this one up as I didn't like [TS]

00:40:41   everyone says try this one try that one [TS]

00:40:42   so I try mall what do I care [TS]

00:40:44   yeah put a button now my domains are [TS]

00:40:46   spread out across many providers and [TS]

00:40:48   they're all better than GoDaddy though [TS]

00:40:49   all the ones that were recommended to me [TS]

00:40:51   Oh daddy I assume we'll never be a [TS]

00:40:53   sponsor of the show I I have to be [TS]

00:40:56   honest um we do have some standards here [TS]

00:40:59   and if they were to contact me with what [TS]

00:41:02   they are currently offering with what's [TS]

00:41:05   out there right now and godaddy.com if [TS]

00:41:07   they were to inquire and say we'd like I [TS]

00:41:09   would say I'm sorry I don't think that's [TS]

00:41:11   a fit with with the audience if they [TS]

00:41:12   were to redo things change things up [TS]

00:41:14   stop killing elephants whatever I would [TS]

00:41:17   I would definitely talk to him about it [TS]

00:41:19   if they wanted to make a change [TS]

00:41:20   everybody can change Sean I've got open [TS]

00:41:22   like a true businessman kind of is not [TS]

00:41:24   closed the door and going right ship [TS]

00:41:25   they can change you believe they can [TS]

00:41:27   change I believe everybody can change [TS]

00:41:29   its that if I believe in one thing [TS]

00:41:32   fundamentally is that people everybody [TS]

00:41:35   everybody can change and if they sent [TS]

00:41:37   Danica Patrick over [TS]

00:41:38   that's her name maybe that would help it [TS]

00:41:41   wouldn't hurt all right so gatekeeper [TS]

00:41:44   gatekeeper yeah three modes well this is [TS]

00:41:49   interesting because my understanding [TS]

00:41:51   from my my frenzied reading since [TS]

00:41:53   yesterday is that this is another case [TS]

00:41:57   where a third-party developer a [TS]

00:41:59   prominent third-party developer [TS]

00:42:01   apparently had a large amount of [TS]

00:42:03   influence over apples Directioners area [TS]

00:42:05   so will Shipley in November [TS]

00:42:06   of 2011 wrote an article called real [TS]

00:42:09   security Mac os10 requires Apple signed [TS]

00:42:11   certificates it was a blog post right [TS]

00:42:12   discussing sandboxing which is big thing [TS]

00:42:16   that developers are worried about [TS]

00:42:17   because many things that you would [TS]

00:42:19   expect to be able to do are not allowed [TS]

00:42:20   at your sandbox and he looked at it and [TS]

00:42:24   saying what what does sandboxing [TS]

00:42:25   supposed to do in the entitlements and [TS]

00:42:27   the you know you can do you're allowed [TS]

00:42:29   to write files to disk but only in this [TS]

00:42:32   directory every single thing you do you [TS]

00:42:33   have to have an entitlement for doing [TS]

00:42:34   and and the second level is auditing [TS]

00:42:36   where okay you have to submit your [TS]

00:42:37   application to the Mac App Store and [TS]

00:42:38   presumably they look to make sure it's [TS]

00:42:39   not harmful and the Wills point was that [TS]

00:42:43   entitlements and auditing are fine as [TS]

00:42:47   far as the extent but they not really [TS]

00:42:48   are going to help you with malware [TS]

00:42:50   because first of all entitlements like [TS]

00:42:53   if your application needs to do [TS]

00:42:54   something like needs to read from the [TS]

00:42:56   address book because it's an address [TS]

00:42:57   book application if it's malware of [TS]

00:42:58   course it's going to masquerade as an [TS]

00:43:00   address book application and you're [TS]

00:43:01   going to tell the Mac App Store people [TS]

00:43:03   hey I need the read from address book [TS]

00:43:05   entitlement I don't even know if it's [TS]

00:43:06   real entitlement by the way but I need [TS]

00:43:07   whatever entitlement because that's what [TS]

00:43:08   my app does and they go yeah that's fine [TS]

00:43:10   yeah you should have that entitlement [TS]

00:43:11   you are an address book app or whatever [TS]

00:43:12   uh and auditing is you know you can't [TS]

00:43:16   tell from a program whether it's going [TS]

00:43:18   to do something harmful even if you have [TS]

00:43:20   the source code it's very difficult it's [TS]

00:43:21   so both of those things can't possibly [TS]

00:43:24   actually stop malware all they can do is [TS]

00:43:27   make it a little bit harder to sneak [TS]

00:43:29   malware past and so oh well shepley's [TS]

00:43:33   suggestion was that each developer be [TS]

00:43:37   given an individual certificate such [TS]

00:43:38   that when you load their application it [TS]

00:43:42   is inextricably and cryptographically [TS]

00:43:44   linked to their identity that's on file [TS]

00:43:46   with Apple and if it turns out that you [TS]

00:43:49   have mount that you know you've done [TS]

00:43:50   something bad or you're a naughty [TS]

00:43:51   developer it turns out that malware or [TS]

00:43:53   whatever Apple can revoke the [TS]

00:43:55   certificate for that application [TS]

00:43:57   rendering in inert cross all Macs so [TS]

00:44:00   this was bullshit please suggestion and [TS]

00:44:01   you're saying like that sandboxing [TS]

00:44:03   doesn't do this that the approval [TS]

00:44:05   process doesn't do this what you need to [TS]

00:44:06   have is to tie the person to the [TS]

00:44:09   application and have [TS]

00:44:11   a certificate authority controlled by [TS]

00:44:13   Apple that can nuke this app remotely [TS]

00:44:15   and say we found this app is bad kill it [TS]

00:44:18   because all the other things means like [TS]

00:44:20   if you you know if your entitlements and [TS]

00:44:22   auditing stuff let's the malware get [TS]

00:44:24   past then what do you do and like oh my [TS]

00:44:27   god one got passed you have no recourse [TS]

00:44:29   you and and really same like like all [TS]

00:44:30   you actually need is the identity thing [TS]

00:44:33   because once something is malware will [TS]

00:44:34   find out quickly because this is the [TS]

00:44:36   internet and switch it off and then [TS]

00:44:37   problem solved so gatekeeper is [TS]

00:44:41   different less severe and actually a [TS]

00:44:43   little bit simpler than what he [TS]

00:44:44   suggested but it does hinge on the idea [TS]

00:44:46   of connecting developers identities with [TS]

00:44:49   applications that you can prove I am [TS]

00:44:51   company X or person X this is my [TS]

00:44:53   application it is connected to me and [TS]

00:44:56   then it Apple requires you know a name [TS]

00:44:58   and email address a real address like [TS]

00:45:00   whatever they wanted that whatever they [TS]

00:45:02   do for their developer program so I can [TS]

00:45:03   connect this back to a person all the [TS]

00:45:05   way to the point where you can say if [TS]

00:45:06   you did something illegal the people who [TS]

00:45:08   take legal action against you because I [TS]

00:45:09   look this I this is not a mysterious [TS]

00:45:11   application we know the person who made [TS]

00:45:13   this we can find them we have you know [TS]

00:45:15   tax records for them because you know [TS]

00:45:17   like that is not some sort of anonymous [TS]

00:45:21   thing that we don't know where it came [TS]

00:45:22   from [TS]

00:45:23   right but the key difference with [TS]

00:45:25   gatekeeper versus what will Shipley [TS]

00:45:28   suggest it is the gatekeeper doesn't [TS]

00:45:29   have that remote kill switch doesn't [TS]

00:45:31   have the thing the nooks the app [TS]

00:45:33   everywhere and it sounds like well it [TS]

00:45:34   wasn't that the whole point the whole [TS]

00:45:35   point was if malware slips through you [TS]

00:45:37   need this remote kill switch it's it's [TS]

00:45:39   interesting they didn't do that because [TS]

00:45:40   they could have you know it's a similar [TS]

00:45:41   type of thing like all this will nuclei [TS]

00:45:43   but I think they actually have that for [TS]

00:45:44   the app store I'm not sure but all [TS]

00:45:47   gatekeeper does is block the the install [TS]

00:45:50   or launch process there's no kill switch [TS]

00:45:52   to kill the application you already got [TS]

00:45:54   it so when they revoke the certificate [TS]

00:45:58   of bad company bla application bla that [TS]

00:46:00   turns out to be malware it will only [TS]

00:46:02   stop new people from installing it if [TS]

00:46:04   you already have that application and [TS]

00:46:06   have already launched it you are not [TS]

00:46:08   cured of them al where now they have a [TS]

00:46:10   separate process for detecting malware [TS]

00:46:12   and they know the thing that didn't Snow [TS]

00:46:13   Leopard in line where it will say this [TS]

00:46:15   is malware because you recognize the [TS]

00:46:16   signature of Allah ah that seems worse [TS]

00:46:20   is like what if I'm already infected I'm [TS]

00:46:21   not being helped well look once you know [TS]

00:46:23   it's malware from reading the internet [TS]

00:46:24   read [TS]

00:46:24   you don't know like you've already been [TS]

00:46:26   infected by that point so apples not [TS]

00:46:28   taking it on itself to kill that [TS]

00:46:30   application everywhere and it is kind of [TS]

00:46:33   like heavy-handed of like this is an [TS]

00:46:35   application that somebody has and [TS]

00:46:36   they've launched it and run it for [TS]

00:46:37   awhile then all of a sudden the next day [TS]

00:46:38   it doesn't work it's kind of like that [TS]

00:46:40   thing Amazon did with the 1984 book [TS]

00:46:41   where they change the version of it or [TS]

00:46:43   revoked it or whatever people like that [TS]

00:46:44   it's creepy where something you were [TS]

00:46:47   using is fine and then they the next day [TS]

00:46:51   it doesn't work people are pointing out [TS]

00:46:53   in the chat room that I guess maybe they [TS]

00:46:55   don't have a for iOS it's not for [TS]

00:46:56   malware but things like I'm my copy of I [TS]

00:46:58   mean still works just fine you know one [TS]

00:46:59   works fine too and my understanding is [TS]

00:47:01   that if you have if you bought it and or [TS]

00:47:04   I mean if it's free but they still [TS]

00:47:06   consider free like purchasing if you [TS]

00:47:08   have purchased an app even if it is [TS]

00:47:10   later subsequently removed from the [TS]

00:47:12   store you can still get it like I can [TS]

00:47:14   put my name on any of my iOS devices [TS]

00:47:17   that I buy until they change this rule [TS]

00:47:20   forever if I get a new I a new iPad [TS]

00:47:22   today or when the new iPad three comes [TS]

00:47:24   out in March I go get it I can put on a [TS]

00:47:26   Mon that because I already got it [TS]

00:47:27   that's not malware that's just like oh [TS]

00:47:29   we don't approve there right but it's [TS]

00:47:31   something that was that was in the store [TS]

00:47:32   and then got rejected later a remove [TS]

00:47:34   polled later so they can do something [TS]

00:47:36   different with them on a malware all [TS]

00:47:37   right but so the the point of gatekeeper [TS]

00:47:40   is it seems like it leaves people in the [TS]

00:47:43   lurch but the analogy that we'll simply [TS]

00:47:46   made on Twitter what's great is that [TS]

00:47:47   it's like it's like a virus like a real [TS]

00:47:49   virus you don't need to cure people the [TS]

00:47:51   virus you just need to stop its spread [TS]

00:47:53   and that's what gatekeeper does like the [TS]

00:47:55   second they flip that switch you have [TS]

00:47:57   quarantined it that will no longer [TS]

00:47:59   spread anymore because anybody who has [TS]

00:48:00   not already downloaded and launched this [TS]

00:48:02   application will not be able to do so [TS]

00:48:05   because were they to do so they'll see [TS]

00:48:06   the certificates revoked involved and [TS]

00:48:08   they'll get the warning and stuff like [TS]

00:48:09   that right ah now the three the three [TS]

00:48:11   radio buttons you were talking about are [TS]

00:48:12   the different modes that you can run [TS]

00:48:14   your Mac in right one mode is exactly [TS]

00:48:16   like Lion [TS]

00:48:17   you just run whatever the heck you want [TS]

00:48:19   and this you know it's it's exactly the [TS]

00:48:22   same is in line you know when you in [TS]

00:48:23   Safari or something you download an [TS]

00:48:24   application the first time you launch it [TS]

00:48:26   it says this application was downloaded [TS]

00:48:27   infinitely sure yeah yeah so there [TS]

00:48:29   already is like that Barry's been there [TS]

00:48:31   since I think just nut up Snow Leopard [TS]

00:48:32   maybe yeah [TS]

00:48:34   but that's the that's one mode that's [TS]

00:48:36   not the default hub [TS]

00:48:38   the opposite end of the spectrum Oh tis [TS]

00:48:40   only run things from the Mac App Store [TS]

00:48:41   and that's straightforward to understand [TS]

00:48:43   it's like look anything is not from the [TS]

00:48:44   Mac App Store sorry not going to happen [TS]

00:48:45   and many people were afraid this would [TS]

00:48:47   happen because it would really kill the [TS]

00:48:48   third-party market for applications [TS]

00:48:51   outside the Mac App Store and it is an [TS]

00:48:53   option on mountain line but that is also [TS]

00:48:55   not the default the default is only [TS]

00:49:00   allow Mac App Store applications and [TS]

00:49:03   applications that are signed for the [TS]

00:49:05   certificate like in other words [TS]

00:49:06   applications that we can trace back to a [TS]

00:49:07   person according to apples [TS]

00:49:08   record-keeping and that we can revoke [TS]

00:49:10   those certificates for it's different in [TS]

00:49:13   that right now individual developers [TS]

00:49:16   don't have a way to sign applications I [TS]

00:49:17   mean you can you can do it with a code [TS]

00:49:19   signature yourself and just sign it to [TS]

00:49:20   make sure the application hasn't been [TS]

00:49:22   tampered with and it's lets you do [TS]

00:49:23   things like provide an update to your [TS]

00:49:25   application that doesn't ask you for the [TS]

00:49:26   keychain warnings again because you can [TS]

00:49:28   prove that it's a set from the same [TS]

00:49:29   developer as before but really you could [TS]

00:49:31   just be a fly-by-night thing and make [TS]

00:49:32   your own little certificate and the fact [TS]

00:49:34   that you know it all does is help you [TS]

00:49:36   prove that your application hasn't been [TS]

00:49:38   tampered with somebody else it doesn't [TS]

00:49:39   protect you against malware because they [TS]

00:49:40   have no way to find you and hunt you [TS]

00:49:41   down and hold you accountable certainly [TS]

00:49:44   in a way to revoke that certificate and [TS]

00:49:46   disable that application but the under [TS]

00:49:49   mountain line the certificate would be [TS]

00:49:50   an Apple issued certificate they would [TS]

00:49:52   say ok you have proven to Apple that you [TS]

00:49:54   or this person here is a certificate [TS]

00:49:55   please use this design your applications [TS]

00:49:57   instead of like that your you know your [TS]

00:49:59   own sort of self signed certificate Lee [TS]

00:50:01   as they guess the equivalent of you know [TS]

00:50:03   if you know about SSL self-signed [TS]

00:50:04   certificates there's a third-party [TS]

00:50:06   vouching for you saying you are who you [TS]

00:50:07   are sign your apps with this and that's [TS]

00:50:09   the default mode the default mode is [TS]

00:50:11   anything for the Mac App Store is fine [TS]

00:50:12   and anything you download off any place [TS]

00:50:14   on the Internet as long as it's signed [TS]

00:50:15   by an official Apple developer [TS]

00:50:17   certificate will let that go through - [TS]

00:50:19   ah and again the idea is that if it [TS]

00:50:23   turns out to be malware Apple rogue so [TS]

00:50:25   should you forget the people who are [TS]

00:50:26   infected or infected but we stopped the [TS]

00:50:27   spread so it's very deferential to [TS]

00:50:30   almost to a fault to not stepping on [TS]

00:50:34   people's toes because you would assume [TS]

00:50:37   that every single reputable developer is [TS]

00:50:39   going to I mean they're already signed [TS]

00:50:40   up for the developer program probably [TS]

00:50:41   you know some than pirating of [TS]

00:50:43   development tools or anything they're [TS]

00:50:45   not going to submit to the Mac App Store [TS]

00:50:46   say they're not into that they're just [TS]

00:50:48   going to put it up on their own website [TS]

00:50:49   up there there [TS]

00:50:51   they're going to sign it with the Apple [TS]

00:50:53   certificate so they can show that [TS]

00:50:54   they're up and up you know what I mean [TS]

00:50:55   and that being the default all it stops [TS]

00:50:58   people from running are things that [TS]

00:51:00   aren't signed up what wouldn't be signed [TS]

00:51:01   weird open-source stuff which probably [TS]

00:51:03   people shouldn't be playing with anyway [TS]

00:51:04   freeware and other stuff is not [TS]

00:51:06   maintained like and that you know that [TS]

00:51:09   may be unfair to them was like a hug now [TS]

00:51:11   I got to get a tip again I gotta sign [TS]

00:51:13   this ID just like having this free app [TS]

00:51:14   there's lots of apps that run fine but [TS]

00:51:16   they're not maintained for you know I [TS]

00:51:18   haven't updated this version because it [TS]

00:51:19   runs fine it does some simple thing or [TS]

00:51:21   it's made by developers who are not [TS]

00:51:23   really Mac developers primarily this may [TS]

00:51:27   sound still like a grim scenario but [TS]

00:51:29   realize that all this that I'm talking [TS]

00:51:31   about is just a series of dialog boxes [TS]

00:51:33   on the first launch that say something [TS]

00:51:36   about do you want to run this or not ah [TS]

00:51:38   and there's even a bypass where if you [TS]

00:51:42   right-click and select open which nobody [TS]

00:51:44   ever does if you ever don't do an [TS]

00:51:45   application and doesn't never yeah if [TS]

00:51:47   you right-click an application icon in [TS]

00:51:49   the finder and select open it's the same [TS]

00:51:51   as doing a double click but it's not the [TS]

00:51:53   same on mountain lion in one particular [TS]

00:51:55   way if you do that it doesn't even put [TS]

00:51:56   up the dialog box and says hey this [TS]

00:51:58   thing hasn't been signed or blah blah [TS]

00:52:01   blah like in other words people power [TS]

00:52:04   users and people just want to run stuff [TS]

00:52:05   will not be prevented from doing so all [TS]

00:52:07   this this is a series of dialog boxes [TS]

00:52:09   that are making sure that you want to do [TS]

00:52:12   this and the reason requiring explicit [TS]

00:52:14   action like that that's important [TS]

00:52:15   because malware you can imagine wanting [TS]

00:52:17   to like auto launch or run itself by [TS]

00:52:20   putting in your login items or do some [TS]

00:52:22   other thing that's not initiated by you [TS]

00:52:24   back that's like an extra level of [TS]

00:52:26   malware on top of like it just doing [TS]

00:52:28   something bad when it runs so if you [TS]

00:52:29   know what you're doing even in the [TS]

00:52:30   default mode I mean I might actually [TS]

00:52:32   leave it in the default mode depending [TS]

00:52:33   on how well all this works even the [TS]

00:52:35   default mode where it says I only accept [TS]

00:52:36   Mac App Store applications and things [TS]

00:52:39   that have been signed by an Apple [TS]

00:52:40   certificate you can still run all your [TS]

00:52:41   other stuff you just the first time you [TS]

00:52:43   run it right-click and select open and [TS]

00:52:46   it off it goes some of the chatroom says [TS]

00:52:48   you sure that's not a bug no I'm not [TS]

00:52:50   sure that's not a bug but uh like it I'm [TS]

00:52:53   pretty confident that power users and [TS]

00:52:56   people who just want to run stuff aren't [TS]

00:52:58   going to be impaired by the system [TS]

00:53:00   amount in line but that it will do [TS]

00:53:01   almost everything that will should we [TS]

00:53:03   was suggesting in terms of [TS]

00:53:05   stopping malware not by nuking it all [TS]

00:53:07   remotely but by simply stopping its [TS]

00:53:09   spread if there ever is any kind of app [TS]

00:53:11   alright I'm brick nuke it from orbit the [TS]

00:53:13   only way I'd be sure so this is a very [TS]

00:53:16   nice compromising I think everybody's [TS]

00:53:17   pretty happy was compromised most [TS]

00:53:18   developers I've seen and you know talked [TS]

00:53:20   to personally or read interviews with [TS]

00:53:23   like you know the nightmare scenario was [TS]

00:53:25   Mac App Store only and that didn't [TS]

00:53:26   happen and this is a pretty nice [TS]

00:53:29   compromise incorporating a concept that [TS]

00:53:32   was not really present in line and [TS]

00:53:33   earlier which is the idea of a trusted [TS]

00:53:36   apple developer being able to stake [TS]

00:53:40   their reputation on you know their [TS]

00:53:42   application like good good developers [TS]

00:53:43   want this good developers want to be [TS]

00:53:46   able to say look I'm willing to say I'm [TS]

00:53:48   willing to stand behind what I produce [TS]

00:53:49   let my my inherent goodness and my good [TS]

00:53:53   intentions be worth something and don't [TS]

00:53:55   treat me the same way you treat you [TS]

00:53:56   would treat someone who is just trying [TS]

00:53:57   to scam people or produce malware or [TS]

00:53:59   whatever that must be incredibly [TS]

00:54:01   frustrating for people who are longtime [TS]

00:54:03   reputable solid Mac developers being [TS]

00:54:06   subjected to the same rules as people [TS]

00:54:07   who are keyword spamming the App Store [TS]

00:54:09   and putting a bunch of crap apps that [TS]

00:54:11   have malware hidden in them and stuff [TS]

00:54:12   like that that some way to connect your [TS]

00:54:15   reputation with your application and in [TS]

00:54:17   exchange for that connection to receive [TS]

00:54:19   benefits and the benefits here are that [TS]

00:54:21   you continue to sell your application [TS]

00:54:23   outside the Mac App Store there's no [TS]

00:54:24   approval process that Apple does not [TS]

00:54:25   take cut but nevertheless your [TS]

00:54:28   application has given higher standing in [TS]

00:54:31   the default configuration of the [TS]

00:54:32   operating system then some random things [TS]

00:54:34   someone compiled into name and sign now [TS]

00:54:39   on the issue of those dialog boxes that [TS]

00:54:41   come up Dustin Curtis had a blog post [TS]

00:54:44   complaining about the particulars of [TS]

00:54:46   those dialog boxes and I kind of don't [TS]

00:54:47   blame him so once we do that we better [TS]

00:54:51   we better do our second sponsor just [TS]

00:54:53   because other you know I don't wanna [TS]

00:54:55   slam them altogether and here's where [TS]

00:54:57   you can go blow your nose good idea [TS]

00:54:59   second sponsor Rackspace comm a longtime [TS]

00:55:03   sponsor but they've got some new stuff I [TS]

00:55:04   want to tell you about here's I want you [TS]

00:55:07   to think about them they do they do [TS]

00:55:09   three things a cloud hosting to a [TS]

00:55:14   managed hosting and that [TS]

00:55:16   hybrid hosting those are the three [TS]

00:55:19   things that they do and they do them [TS]

00:55:21   better than anybody else so let's say [TS]

00:55:23   that you'd go and you just want a little [TS]

00:55:24   VPS you just that's all you want right [TS]

00:55:26   now that's it that's all that you need [TS]

00:55:28   you can go you can get that they give [TS]

00:55:31   you that instantaneously boom [TS]

00:55:33   there's your server ready to go then [TS]

00:55:35   later on you get a client a client says [TS]

00:55:37   oh man you know we want our own server [TS]

00:55:38   we want two dedicated but we want it [TS]

00:55:40   managed we want to we want an IT [TS]

00:55:41   department to surround this server and [TS]

00:55:44   just make sure that it's running we want [TS]

00:55:46   ten in these things [TS]

00:55:46   guess what managed hosting Rackspace has [TS]

00:55:49   that oh you get you you want to combine [TS]

00:55:51   all of these things you want dedicated [TS]

00:55:53   servers for performance intense [TS]

00:55:54   intensive applications you want cloud [TS]

00:55:56   servers for on-demand scaling so that [TS]

00:55:58   when you get linked up from one of the [TS]

00:56:00   biggest sites on the internet you can [TS]

00:56:01   handle it you want RAC connect that is [TS]

00:56:04   what you need seamless linking of both [TS]

00:56:07   environments the only guys that do this [TS]

00:56:08   the only ones that do this and they've [TS]

00:56:10   got fanatical support they're amazing [TS]

00:56:13   I've met these guys in person I love [TS]

00:56:15   love talking to them they're doing some [TS]

00:56:16   really cool thing things at South by [TS]

00:56:18   Southwest to support the community can't [TS]

00:56:19   tell you about it yet a secret go to [TS]

00:56:22   Rackspace comm to learn more about these [TS]

00:56:25   guys absolutely love them I'm going to [TS]

00:56:26   be doing some more cool things with them [TS]

00:56:28   so check them out thanks very much for [TS]

00:56:29   their support Rackspace comm the dialog [TS]

00:56:33   boxes yes sir [TS]

00:56:35   so you download a DM which is an open [TS]

00:56:37   source application sure as heck not [TS]

00:56:38   going through the Mac App Store does not [TS]

00:56:40   subject any approval process GPL I think [TS]

00:56:43   I mean you download that on that line [TS]

00:56:45   and you try to run it okay in the [TS]

00:56:47   default configuration the dialog box you [TS]

00:56:49   get says and it depends whether you [TS]

00:56:51   running it raw or running it from a disk [TS]

00:56:54   image or anything like that it says Adam [TS]

00:56:56   has not been signed by recognized [TS]

00:56:58   distributor and may damage your computer [TS]

00:56:59   you should move it to the trash that's [TS]

00:57:01   pretty harsh yeah move that's telling [TS]

00:57:03   you what to do with it yeah and the [TS]

00:57:05   buttons I think there actually is a move [TS]

00:57:07   trash button the default button on the [TS]

00:57:08   dialog box I see and Dustin Curtis this [TS]

00:57:10   thing is eject disk image but I think [TS]

00:57:11   that's only because it's from a disk [TS]

00:57:13   image had you just had the application [TS]

00:57:15   you know when they completely expand [TS]

00:57:16   just the application ends up in your [TS]

00:57:17   downloads folder yeah I think then the [TS]

00:57:19   default button would be moved to trash [TS]

00:57:20   so has not been signed by recognized [TS]

00:57:23   distributor that's true like that's [TS]

00:57:25   that's what Apple wants to get banned [TS]

00:57:26   they want to say look we want [TS]

00:57:27   applications for people who stick their [TS]

00:57:28   reputations on the [TS]

00:57:30   application so that you know if they [TS]

00:57:32   screw you I'll never download software [TS]

00:57:34   from this recognized person again and [TS]

00:57:38   it's up to Apple to maintain like you [TS]

00:57:39   know the identity system and make sure [TS]

00:57:42   they don't keep trying to get new [TS]

00:57:43   identities or whatever uh and may damage [TS]

00:57:45   your computer it's like whoa whoa okay [TS]

00:57:47   not signed by a recognized distributor [TS]

00:57:49   but it's going to damage my you can't [TS]

00:57:50   make that conclusion just because like [TS]

00:57:52   especially in the transition when it's [TS]

00:57:53   going to take people a while especially [TS]

00:57:55   people who are not accustomed to doing [TS]

00:57:57   any kind of code signing like all the [TS]

00:57:59   open-source Mac applications or [TS]

00:58:00   applications that are not updated that [TS]

00:58:02   frequently to get on board say okay I [TS]

00:58:05   guess if we don't want to be put in this [TS]

00:58:06   in this ghetto like this is the flipside [TS]

00:58:08   of the trusted great triple-a developers [TS]

00:58:11   on the Mac platform being given [TS]

00:58:13   preferential treatment because they're [TS]

00:58:15   willing to go through these hoops it [TS]

00:58:16   means that everyone else who was just [TS]

00:58:17   kind of like well we've been going along [TS]

00:58:19   fine we got this app it's pop it's doing [TS]

00:58:20   this thing now now they have to do [TS]

00:58:22   something they didn't have to do before [TS]

00:58:23   to get in to that good camp and so [TS]

00:58:26   saying it may damage your computer I [TS]

00:58:28   guess that's true it may but like the [TS]

00:58:31   vast majority of software is not malware [TS]

00:58:33   it seems kind of harsh uh and then you [TS]

00:58:35   should move it to the trash it's not [TS]

00:58:37   even like like they're gonna tell you [TS]

00:58:38   then you know may damage your computer [TS]

00:58:40   in case it's not clear to you we think [TS]

00:58:41   you should just chuck this thing down so [TS]

00:58:42   this is a pretty big stick to make [TS]

00:58:45   anybody who's on the up-and-up get and [TS]

00:58:49   get an Apple certificate sign your [TS]

00:58:50   applications no approval process no cut [TS]

00:58:53   of profits just get the certificate and [TS]

00:58:54   sign it so you don't won't be subjected [TS]

00:58:56   to this Dustin calls it a fear mongering [TS]

00:58:59   dialog it is kind of fear mongering but [TS]

00:59:01   like if you want the benefits of I'm a [TS]

00:59:04   trusted developer I you know I want all [TS]

00:59:09   the benefits that come with me doing the [TS]

00:59:11   right thing the flip side of that is [TS]

00:59:13   that the people who aren't willing to do [TS]

00:59:14   those things get get dinged so I think [TS]

00:59:19   the dialogue is kind of harsh but it's [TS]

00:59:22   it's the it's the flip side of the thing [TS]

00:59:24   that everybody wants you can't have the [TS]

00:59:26   good part without the bad part and this [TS]

00:59:27   is the bad part and I don't think it [TS]

00:59:29   will take that long for developers to do [TS]

00:59:31   this and especially since like who [TS]

00:59:34   installs software you know you kind of [TS]

00:59:36   want someone who's not really [TS]

00:59:39   knowledgeable about computers you want [TS]

00:59:41   them to buy from the Mac App Store [TS]

00:59:42   because it's problem free [TS]

00:59:44   and if they're you maybe don't want them [TS]

00:59:46   downloading installing random [TS]

00:59:47   applications now maybe you want to [TS]

00:59:49   install IDM for somebody and you just [TS]

00:59:50   say okay you know cancel you can click [TS]

00:59:52   through that dot it's not stopping you [TS]

00:59:53   from doing it's just a scary message [TS]

00:59:55   like you know Adam is fine I've been [TS]

00:59:56   using it for years you know and go on [TS]

00:59:58   your way but the [TS]

00:59:58   your way but the [TS]

01:00:00   this ugliness is motivation for the atom [TS]

01:00:03   developers to get a certificate in sign [TS]

01:00:04   and I'm assuming they will assuming that [TS]

01:00:07   it does not impair their license [TS]

01:00:09   restrictions or whatever they will do [TS]

01:00:10   that now the other issue that related to [TS]

01:00:13   the sort of the haves and have-nots the [TS]

01:00:15   good guys and the bad guys split that's [TS]

01:00:16   you know starting to happen here is that [TS]

01:00:20   and this continues to be a source of [TS]

01:00:22   contention for even the good developers [TS]

01:00:23   Apple has been introducing api's that [TS]

01:00:26   are only available to applications that [TS]

01:00:27   are in the Mac App Store and this [TS]

01:00:28   continues in mountain line so the iCloud [TS]

01:00:31   applique P is alclad is neat you might [TS]

01:00:35   you want to use it you got to be in the [TS]

01:00:37   Mac App Store [TS]

01:00:38   why no technical reason just that's it [TS]

01:00:40   that's apples carrot and stick approach [TS]

01:00:42   all over again like the carrot is hey I [TS]

01:00:44   cut api's the stick is and you better [TS]

01:00:47   get in our App Store if you want them [TS]

01:00:48   because I don't know because they want a [TS]

01:00:50   couple of profits because I think the [TS]

01:00:51   Mac App Store is a better experience for [TS]

01:00:53   all users and they want to encourage [TS]

01:00:54   people to go in there using every tool [TS]

01:00:56   in their disposal to try to get you into [TS]

01:00:58   the Mac App Store Notification Center [TS]

01:01:00   reportedly reportedly from the chat room [TS]

01:01:03   I don't even remember who said it is [TS]

01:01:04   also you know it's a headline feature of [TS]

01:01:06   a mountain line you can look at it on [TS]

01:01:08   Apple's website it's very similar to [TS]

01:01:10   growl and Notification Center on iOS 5 [TS]

01:01:13   you want to use that apparently you need [TS]

01:01:16   to be in the Mac App Store and so the [TS]

01:01:18   obvious question for all the Triple Aim [TS]

01:01:19   AG developers is hey well if we do this [TS]

01:01:21   thing where we get your official [TS]

01:01:22   certificate and we put the Apple stamp [TS]

01:01:24   of approval and we connect our [TS]

01:01:26   reputation with this application can we [TS]

01:01:29   use iCloud then can we use Notification [TS]

01:01:31   Center and people who have asked that in [TS]

01:01:33   their briefings to Apple Apple has been [TS]

01:01:36   nothing to announce no Bob you know wish [TS]

01:01:39   you watch like they don't have anything [TS]

01:01:40   to say about that right now [TS]

01:01:41   clearly Apple is getting the feedback [TS]

01:01:43   I'm sure they're getting an earful of it [TS]

01:01:44   now that's what people want they say you [TS]

01:01:46   know we don't want to be subject to your [TS]

01:01:48   approval process we don't want to have [TS]

01:01:51   to be sandbox like the Mac App Store [TS]

01:01:53   ones do especially if you can't resolve [TS]

01:01:54   this untenable issue where you know [TS]

01:01:56   transmit the FTP application literally [TS]

01:01:58   cannot exist with the sandboxing as it [TS]

01:02:00   currently exists now because it the [TS]

01:02:01   whole point is that it writes reads and [TS]

01:02:03   writes arbitrary locations and then in [TS]

01:02:05   the file system you know we would we [TS]

01:02:08   would like to be as good as citizen as [TS]

01:02:09   we can be but we just can't be in the [TS]

01:02:11   Mac App Store because our application [TS]

01:02:13   doesn't fit in your definition of what a [TS]

01:02:15   proper Mac App Store application is but [TS]

01:02:17   we do want to use the iCloud API we do [TS]

01:02:19   want to use Notification Center why do [TS]

01:02:20   we have to be ghettoized [TS]

01:02:22   in terms of feature parity and API use [TS]

01:02:25   simply because we're not in the Mac App [TS]

01:02:28   Store it so it's that's still a rough [TS]

01:02:30   situation in the middle there and that's [TS]

01:02:31   a place where developers I'm sure are [TS]

01:02:34   sending Apple their feedback and should [TS]

01:02:36   be sending it and saying hey if we sign [TS]

01:02:37   if we if we connect ourselves to this [TS]

01:02:40   app let us use all the api's and I [TS]

01:02:42   really hope Apple does the reverse that [TS]

01:02:44   decision you're upset yeah I like it I'm [TS]

01:02:52   upsetting time like I can't yeah any [TS]

01:02:55   time I think apples making a mistake [TS]

01:02:56   because I can't think of like what it [TS]

01:03:00   what is the what is the motivation for [TS]

01:03:03   keeping iCloud Mac App Store only if you [TS]

01:03:07   think Apple is evil it's like well they [TS]

01:03:08   want to cut up your money they want to [TS]

01:03:10   have control they want to they want to [TS]

01:03:13   control your destiny completely they [TS]

01:03:15   want you under their thumb and getting [TS]

01:03:16   you in the Mac App Store does that but I [TS]

01:03:20   don't think Apple is cartoonishly evil [TS]

01:03:22   so you have to what else is it the light [TS]

01:03:25   side thing is they really believe that [TS]

01:03:27   the Mac App Store experience as proven [TS]

01:03:30   by the iOS experience is such an enabler [TS]

01:03:33   of more people buying applications more [TS]

01:03:35   people using them people having fewer [TS]

01:03:37   problems that a controlled experience [TS]

01:03:39   for application distribution [TS]

01:03:40   installation of installation is better [TS]

01:03:42   for the customer and what's better for [TS]

01:03:45   the customer is better for Apple because [TS]

01:03:46   more people buy Apple stuff and [TS]

01:03:48   eventually is better for the developer [TS]

01:03:50   like everyone hated the iOS App Store [TS]

01:03:52   where they had such tremendous control [TS]

01:03:54   and approval process and all that stuff [TS]

01:03:55   but the benefit is that people are not [TS]

01:03:58   afraid to install apps on their phone [TS]

01:04:00   right and if you're a developer you're [TS]

01:04:03   going to complain about the approval [TS]

01:04:04   process until a bazillion people install [TS]

01:04:06   your stupid tilting beer-drinking [TS]

01:04:08   application on day one of the iPhone you [TS]

01:04:10   would have never gotten eight million [TS]

01:04:13   people to download your stupid [TS]

01:04:14   beer-drinking application the day of new [TS]

01:04:16   iMac came because installing [TS]

01:04:18   applications and on Mac OS was scary [TS]

01:04:20   and installing it in iOS was tap-tap-tap [TS]

01:04:23   look good you tilted it looks like I'm [TS]

01:04:25   drinking a beer chi-ching [TS]

01:04:27   that that experience you know that's the [TS]

01:04:31   light side explanation that Apple really [TS]

01:04:32   believes this is good for everybody yes [TS]

01:04:34   it's super painful and annoying for [TS]

01:04:35   developers and his issues to be worked [TS]

01:04:36   out but it's good for Apple because we [TS]

01:04:38   get some of your money everything and [TS]

01:04:40   and we get to pick what's on our [TS]

01:04:41   platform it's good for users because [TS]

01:04:43   they're not afraid to install [TS]

01:04:44   applications and eventually eventually [TS]

01:04:45   it we swear to you it's good for [TS]

01:04:47   developers again in cases like [TS]

01:04:50   applications that cannot exist on the [TS]

01:04:52   Mac App Store as the rules currently [TS]

01:04:54   apply like SuperDuper which is an [TS]

01:04:55   awesome application or transmit which [TS]

01:04:57   everybody loves for file transfer that's [TS]

01:04:59   that's something has to be fixed there [TS]

01:05:01   that's like a problem to be addressed [TS]

01:05:03   because what are they going to say oh we [TS]

01:05:05   think file transfer is not important [TS]

01:05:08   anymore or we think disk cloning is [TS]

01:05:10   something that should only be handled by [TS]

01:05:11   the OS vendor and we don't care that [TS]

01:05:13   billions of users love that product you [TS]

01:05:15   know that's something that needs to be [TS]

01:05:17   worked out and that's that's a source of [TS]

01:05:18   frustration and the fact again that the [TS]

01:05:20   sandboxing stuff like the people like [TS]

01:05:22   like panic or asking about transmit I [TS]

01:05:24   didn't even know if Dave is asking about [TS]

01:05:27   super duper but they would like to know [TS]

01:05:29   so what's the deal with a sandboxing you [TS]

01:05:31   said we all have to be sandbox by such [TS]

01:05:32   and such a date but we can't we [TS]

01:05:34   literally cannot cannot distribute our [TS]

01:05:37   application sandbox so we cannot be in [TS]

01:05:39   the Mac App Store or say they're in the [TS]

01:05:41   Mac App Store now and have to pull [TS]

01:05:42   themselves out we've got to leave the [TS]

01:05:44   Mac App Store if you enforce this rule [TS]

01:05:45   so they move the deadline and still no [TS]

01:05:47   word in sandboxing so we're all still [TS]

01:05:51   waiting on that Apple loves to think [TS]

01:05:53   about these things long and hard kind of [TS]

01:05:55   like they presumably thought long and [TS]

01:05:56   hard on gatekeeper and I think it's a [TS]

01:05:59   good sign that gatekeeper uses a lot of [TS]

01:06:02   the things that they will simply [TS]

01:06:04   suggested I think we'll Shipley was [TS]

01:06:06   briefed actually a mountain lion and why [TS]

01:06:08   would he be briefed well because they [TS]

01:06:09   said hey you know that thing you wrote [TS]

01:06:11   the big lock blog post about which [TS]

01:06:12   re-read because you're a prominent Mac [TS]

01:06:13   developer well let's show you what we [TS]

01:06:15   did what do you think of this it's kind [TS]

01:06:17   of like what you suggested but it's [TS]

01:06:18   actually a different and better and in [TS]

01:06:20   interesting ways that's I guess that's [TS]

01:06:22   why you briefed real shipley on it but [TS]

01:06:23   that's the new kinder gentler Apple they [TS]

01:06:26   don't just implement your thing and and [TS]

01:06:28   you find out with everyone else they'll [TS]

01:06:29   come in and say hey we like that idea [TS]

01:06:31   take a look I don't know what the cause [TS]

01:06:32   and effect relationship is they may have [TS]

01:06:33   been working on something like that for [TS]

01:06:35   a while but clearly Apple is a being [TS]

01:06:38   influenced by developers and B [TS]

01:06:41   not above acknowledging that fact he [TS]

01:06:43   used to be that you know Apple would [TS]

01:06:46   read a bunch of stuff and be influenced [TS]

01:06:47   by but they would never come out and say [TS]

01:06:49   oh because we'll Shipley suggested this [TS]

01:06:52   idea that's why we did it [TS]

01:06:53   they were just never do that it wasn't [TS]

01:06:54   it wasn't done but you don't admit where [TS]

01:06:57   our inspiration comes from you know you [TS]

01:07:00   can draw your own conclusions but now [TS]

01:07:02   they were just by you know they're [TS]

01:07:04   they're coming out and saying you know [TS]

01:07:05   we we're going to brief you and we read [TS]

01:07:08   what you did and check this out isn't [TS]

01:07:09   this cool and that's nice to not be [TS]

01:07:12   stingy with the with the praise or [TS]

01:07:15   anything it could be some sort of legal [TS]

01:07:17   thing where they don't want to do that [TS]

01:07:18   so Apple took my idea I'm going to sue [TS]

01:07:19   you but that's the kind relationship [TS]

01:07:21   people want to have with Apple's that [TS]

01:07:22   they they they can call will Shipley and [TS]

01:07:24   show him what they did and not think [TS]

01:07:26   he's going to go home get a lawyer and [TS]

01:07:27   sue them for stealing it Lydia you know [TS]

01:07:30   that's not the world we want to live in [TS]

01:07:32   we also say thanks very much to [TS]

01:07:35   Squarespace what is it this is a fully [TS]

01:07:37   hosted completely managed environment [TS]

01:07:39   for creating and maintaining a beautiful [TS]

01:07:41   website blog portfolio who's it for [TS]

01:07:43   for anyone who wants to create an [TS]

01:07:45   amazing website ok blogging business [TS]

01:07:47   stuff photography whatever it is it [TS]

01:07:49   doesn't matter they can power sites of [TS]

01:07:51   all sizes and and what's amazing is they [TS]

01:07:54   give you full control over your content [TS]

01:07:56   and site customization you could build a [TS]

01:07:58   website you can create a blog and you [TS]

01:08:00   can do it ten times faster with their [TS]

01:08:02   platform they just came out with [TS]

01:08:03   something that's totally awesome I love [TS]

01:08:05   it Merlin Mann has a really great [TS]

01:08:07   example of this and basically what this [TS]

01:08:10   is a called slideshow - and they've [TS]

01:08:13   added tons and tons of options so you've [TS]

01:08:15   seen these really cool slideshows out [TS]

01:08:17   there that have rode you know they move [TS]

01:08:19   they slide they have links they do all [TS]

01:08:20   that anything man this stuff is really [TS]

01:08:22   complicated it's not if you use their [TS]

01:08:24   stuff and it's all built in you've got [TS]

01:08:26   to check these guys out squarespace.com [TS]

01:08:28   and when you go there use the code dan [TS]

01:08:32   sent me to the number two and you will [TS]

01:08:35   get a 15% off for your first six months [TS]

01:08:38   amazing service thanks very much to [TS]

01:08:40   Squarespace comm for making this show [TS]

01:08:42   possible it's got one more thing on molo [TS]

01:08:46   you know like the meloa you know I I [TS]

01:08:50   like I like the beans growing on me I [TS]

01:08:52   like it a little bit more [TS]

01:08:53   it still seems a little silly and [TS]

01:08:55   unnecessary it is but when you when you [TS]

01:08:58   say it I like it I like Singh mountain [TS]

01:09:00   lion mountain lion yeah if you don't [TS]

01:09:03   notice it you just swallow up a mountain [TS]

01:09:05   lion she just called 10.10 dot [TS]

01:09:09   I don't know so this is something you [TS]

01:09:12   were getting up earlier in the show a [TS]

01:09:15   mountain lion could potentially keep us [TS]

01:09:20   in the region of pain of Mac OS 10 [TS]

01:09:23   versions either for a longer period of [TS]

01:09:25   time or perhaps perpetually and the [TS]

01:09:27   region of pain has traditionally been [TS]

01:09:29   defined as 10 point X point zero through [TS]

01:09:33   five ish so those are the versions where [TS]

01:09:36   you're like alright so 10 point X point [TS]

01:09:38   Oh everyone's like okay the point one's [TS]

01:09:40   going to be out in like a few weeks and [TS]

01:09:42   there's going to be bugs or whatever but [TS]

01:09:43   we'll get over it but it really does [TS]

01:09:45   take these releases a while to settle [TS]

01:09:48   down you mentioned how ten point six was [TS]

01:09:50   so great in stable and ten six zero was [TS]

01:09:52   not that great and ten six like in the [TS]

01:09:55   early ten six versions I would I avoided [TS]

01:09:58   upgrading some computers because I had [TS]

01:10:00   upgraded other ones and seen a bunch of [TS]

01:10:01   problems I'm like no I don't wanna deal [TS]

01:10:03   with that an app incompatibility and all [TS]

01:10:04   sorts of things where you know app [TS]

01:10:07   having to battle you some of the Apple [TS]

01:10:08   can control but it's like look if a [TS]

01:10:09   bunch of my applications don't run right [TS]

01:10:11   on Snow Leopard yet I'm not going to go [TS]

01:10:13   to Snow Leopard yet so I wait a little [TS]

01:10:14   bit ten six 110 62 then those app [TS]

01:10:16   developers get around to okay here's the [TS]

01:10:18   Snow Leopard native you know not in so [TS]

01:10:20   awkward native but here's one that works [TS]

01:10:21   with Snow Leopard we resolved that [TS]

01:10:23   annoying bug and you know the you know [TS]

01:10:24   so by the time you pull the trigger when [TS]

01:10:27   it's up to ten six three ten six four or [TS]

01:10:28   something all your apps are ready for [TS]

01:10:30   apples worked out the worst of the bugs [TS]

01:10:32   and then you get into like the salad [TS]

01:10:34   days ten six five ten six six ten six [TS]

01:10:36   seven ten six eight but time you the [TS]

01:10:38   1068 man ten six is solid right like [TS]

01:10:40   that's what you're running on your [TS]

01:10:41   little minis that are running headless [TS]

01:10:42   somewhere right it's the latest version [TS]

01:10:45   of United States that's what you that's [TS]

01:10:46   what you want because you know you don't [TS]

01:10:48   have to worry about it [TS]

01:10:49   yeah and like but you know ten five when [TS]

01:10:51   it's like 10 5 9 w got 10 5 10 and [TS]

01:10:53   remember like by the time you get into [TS]

01:10:55   those late dots you know they're not [TS]

01:10:56   adding features anymore and they're just [TS]

01:10:58   stamping out bugs and that's you know [TS]

01:11:01   it's a confidence builder yeah and [TS]

01:11:03   there's no reason you have to upgrade to [TS]

01:11:04   a new operating system either you could [TS]

01:11:06   say well if you're happy with that just [TS]

01:11:07   stick with [TS]

01:11:07   but Apple has just been so aggressive [TS]

01:11:10   about encouraging people to upgrade to [TS]

01:11:13   the next operating system that's [TS]

01:11:14   sticking like for example sticking with [TS]

01:11:15   ten six that's really tough like I have [TS]

01:11:18   one machine left in my house that has [TS]

01:11:19   ten six and like not a week goes by that [TS]

01:11:22   I don't download an application and see [TS]

01:11:24   a little circle with a line through it [TS]

01:11:25   over the icon telling me oh this is ten [TS]

01:11:27   seven only like I don't even think about [TS]

01:11:28   it I just download it and I didn't look [TS]

01:11:30   at the fine print and I get in my [TS]

01:11:31   Applications folder yep sorry ten seven [TS]

01:11:33   only like why is this ten seven only [TS]

01:11:35   this thing has doesn't use any ten seven [TS]

01:11:37   specific API is you know because Apple [TS]

01:11:39   is so good and incurred you know it may [TS]

01:11:41   be sin seven only because just because [TS]

01:11:42   they wanted to use like some Objective C [TS]

01:11:45   feature that only this in ten seven or [TS]

01:11:48   is easier to use in ten seven they [TS]

01:11:49   didn't have to worry about tens like [TS]

01:11:51   there's so many reasons to follow apples [TS]

01:11:53   lead it very quickly your ability to [TS]

01:11:56   stand an old operating system and also [TS]

01:11:58   continue to participate in the community [TS]

01:11:59   of people developing new applications [TS]

01:12:01   and updating existing applications is [TS]

01:12:03   impaired so when the releases were [TS]

01:12:06   longer and you had ten six five through [TS]

01:12:09   eight or whatever then you could say [TS]

01:12:12   like that's nice that the OS is changing [TS]

01:12:14   much everybody's apps have been updated [TS]

01:12:16   to be it's not to be you know Snow [TS]

01:12:18   Leopard compatible and it's just there's [TS]

01:12:20   a smooth sailing for a while before the [TS]

01:12:22   next big disruption ah now what is Lian [TS]

01:12:25   going to be up to before mountain lion [TS]

01:12:26   comes out a lion is on ten seven three [TS]

01:12:28   now is it even going to get to ten seven [TS]

01:12:31   five before it's rudely replaced with 8 [TS]

01:12:33   10 8 zero yeah and then we're back into [TS]

01:12:35   the bad times again right [TS]

01:12:37   and that's exacerbated by the fact that [TS]

01:12:39   some basic stuff that work that should [TS]

01:12:41   work right in ten seven didn't work [TS]

01:12:43   right in ten seven zero fine were used [TS]

01:12:45   to that but we're on ten seven three and [TS]

01:12:47   Safari is still blanking out my tabs and [TS]

01:12:50   going all white and my mouse still [TS]

01:12:53   occasionally you wake the computer up in [TS]

01:12:55   the mouse won't move anymore I got a [TS]

01:12:56   plug and unplug and that didn't happen [TS]

01:12:59   on Snow Leopard and we're up to ten [TS]

01:13:00   seventy three all right so maybe like [TS]

01:13:02   just before mountain lion comes out ten [TS]

01:13:04   seven four or five issues out and these [TS]

01:13:07   problems disappear but then I got a [TS]

01:13:08   whole new crop of problems like well we [TS]

01:13:09   ever will be perpetually be in a state [TS]

01:13:12   where we're in the immature wringing out [TS]

01:13:15   period of an operating system if we're [TS]

01:13:16   going to do you really releases and [TS]

01:13:17   that's why I really hope Apple takes to [TS]

01:13:20   heart this in [TS]

01:13:22   churn rate and says we've got to be more [TS]

01:13:24   conservative with what we change in [TS]

01:13:26   these OS is we can't do you know that's [TS]

01:13:28   maybe they go to a tick tock model [TS]

01:13:30   because if they don't go to tick tock [TS]

01:13:31   model I think users will tick tock model [TS]

01:13:32   is you do one big radical change then [TS]

01:13:34   you refine and you do one big radical [TS]

01:13:36   change and then you're you're fine and [TS]

01:13:37   it doesn't have to do with how much new [TS]

01:13:38   wizzy stuff on this is on the screen has [TS]

01:13:40   to do with like little annoying bugs [TS]

01:13:42   like oh we changed the way Wi-Fi works [TS]

01:13:43   and now Dan can't get his Wi-Fi work [TS]

01:13:46   consuming only do that in I forget if [TS]

01:13:49   it's the ticker the talk do that like [TS]

01:13:50   every other release it's not a big [TS]

01:13:52   headline feature like the little airport [TS]

01:13:53   you know everything looks the same like [TS]

01:13:55   they change but underneath it so they [TS]

01:13:57   had to rip out the guts and totally [TS]

01:13:58   replace it because they're they're [TS]

01:13:59   revising the operating system fine good [TS]

01:14:01   do that but only do the the totally [TS]

01:14:05   overhauling Wi-Fi and one release and [TS]

01:14:07   then the next release do not overhaul [TS]

01:14:08   Wi-Fi again just hammer out the books [TS]

01:14:10   right because no matter how an operating [TS]

01:14:12   system is I'm respective of like do I [TS]

01:14:15   like how the apps look do I like what [TS]

01:14:17   they did to Mission Control versus [TS]

01:14:18   expose and stuff like that that's not [TS]

01:14:20   even though I'm talking about I'm [TS]

01:14:21   talking about the basic functionality of [TS]

01:14:22   like can't wake from sleep networking [TS]

01:14:25   not reliable a little annoying niggling [TS]

01:14:29   bugs that are like I'll come on do I do [TS]

01:14:30   I even want to think about this anymore [TS]

01:14:32   I don't want to think about Wi-Fi [TS]

01:14:33   working it's just supposed to work and [TS]

01:14:34   when it doesn't you feel just betrayed [TS]

01:14:36   by the entire experience you know you [TS]

01:14:38   don't even have time to get mad about [TS]

01:14:39   Mission Control some other thing you're [TS]

01:14:40   scrolling or whatever your pet peeve is [TS]

01:14:42   UI wise because you I I'm willing to [TS]

01:14:44   roll with the punches let them change [TS]

01:14:45   because that stuff can change but if [TS]

01:14:46   Wi-Fi doesn't work right man that makes [TS]

01:14:48   me think oh I shouldn't have I shouldn't [TS]

01:14:50   have up grid I don't know I don't have a [TS]

01:14:52   lot of these problems of the blind but [TS]

01:14:53   like the Safari one drives me nuts [TS]

01:14:55   because they even backboard that to 10-6 [TS]

01:14:57   its downgraded experience in terms of [TS]

01:14:59   reliability I held off on safari 5-1 for [TS]

01:15:02   a really long time and you would think [TS]

01:15:03   by 1073 that I would earn doubt nope [TS]

01:15:05   they do not so if they're going to do [TS]

01:15:09   that intend you know if they can do the [TS]

01:15:11   type of cycle if if they keep doing this [TS]

01:15:13   like if ten eight is just like ten seven [TS]

01:15:15   has been then what people are going to [TS]

01:15:17   say is well ten seven is finally [TS]

01:15:19   stabilized to ten seven seven like with [TS]

01:15:21   some security patch or you know whatever [TS]

01:15:23   because they do continue to update them [TS]

01:15:25   after the new one comes out with most [TS]

01:15:26   people security updates right I'll say [TS]

01:15:28   well I'm not gonna upgrade a 10-8 I'll [TS]

01:15:30   wait for ten nine like skip every other [TS]

01:15:32   release you know what I mean [TS]

01:15:34   that will be users voting with their not [TS]

01:15:37   so much but their wallets but with their [TS]

01:15:39   you know with their point releases to [TS]

01:15:40   say I can't be on the cycle I can't [TS]

01:15:42   every single summer totally destroy my [TS]

01:15:45   computer's ability to base to do basic [TS]

01:15:46   functions and wait for two more point [TS]

01:15:48   releases and if I say oh I'm not going [TS]

01:15:49   to upgrade to ten eight until I get to [TS]

01:15:50   ten eight four well then like ten nine [TS]

01:15:52   is just being announced then all right [TS]

01:15:54   so Apple really needs to if they're [TS]

01:15:57   going to increase this like like this [TS]

01:15:58   they really need to nail down the [TS]

01:16:01   reliability otherwise either adoption [TS]

01:16:03   curve is going to suffer or the [TS]

01:16:04   reputation it's going to suffer because [TS]

01:16:05   if they keep up the adoption curve by [TS]

01:16:07   really encouraging everyone to just keep [TS]

01:16:08   upgrade and upgrading people are going [TS]

01:16:10   to start to think of max as being less [TS]

01:16:12   reliable you know because these little [TS]

01:16:14   you know point-o problems will still be [TS]

01:16:16   there and and if they don't keep up the [TS]

01:16:19   adoption curve then they're going to be [TS]

01:16:20   in a situation where people are waiting [TS]

01:16:22   and like well we just released ten eight [TS]

01:16:24   why isn't everybody upgrading well [TS]

01:16:25   because ten seven is finally settled [TS]

01:16:26   down they don't want to go through that [TS]

01:16:27   again so they're just going to wait for [TS]

01:16:28   ten nine because they know it's coming [TS]

01:16:29   next year you know I mean so this will [TS]

01:16:33   be this is a puzzle for them and this by [TS]

01:16:37   the way some people complained about [TS]

01:16:38   that in my line review like why didn't [TS]

01:16:40   you complain about all these little [TS]

01:16:40   things that don't work every point zero [TS]

01:16:43   is like that and when I write my review [TS]

01:16:45   I'm writing off the dev free use and [TS]

01:16:46   maybe I get to see the point zero I [TS]

01:16:48   don't like to in an OS review say this [TS]

01:16:53   is super buggy so you shouldn't buy this [TS]

01:16:54   operating system because like the [TS]

01:16:55   expiration date on that statement is [TS]

01:16:57   usually pretty short and in in a month [TS]

01:17:01   or a week or whatever when the point 1 [TS]

01:17:03   to point 2 comes out history is showing [TS]

01:17:05   the most those things get ironed out I [TS]

01:17:06   couldn't have predicted the future that [TS]

01:17:08   10-7 was going to have these problems [TS]

01:17:09   and they wouldn't be ironed out by the [TS]

01:17:11   point one the point two or the point [TS]

01:17:12   three right so I in all these ruse I [TS]

01:17:15   have to say I don't even discuss the [TS]

01:17:17   topic really I say look it's as reliable [TS]

01:17:20   as I expect 2.0 to be and these minor [TS]

01:17:24   issues are going to ironed out now I [TS]

01:17:25   think in a 10-8 review I have to [TS]

01:17:26   acknowledge the fact that didn't work [TS]

01:17:28   out so well for ten seven if they are [TS]

01:17:29   going to advance this cycle it's [TS]

01:17:31   something we need to think about in [TS]

01:17:33   terms of reviewing it I don't think it's [TS]

01:17:34   fair to to ding the OS and say you [TS]

01:17:37   shouldn't upgrade to this because that's [TS]

01:17:39   kind of like implicit in all the things [TS]

01:17:40   like look don't upgrade until all your [TS]

01:17:41   apps are ready until it's settled down [TS]

01:17:44   or whatever but overall what they're [TS]

01:17:46   trying to do with this OS gets thumbs up [TS]

01:17:48   thumbs down [TS]

01:17:48   sideways you know so I don't have to [TS]

01:17:52   think about that for ten eight I will [TS]

01:17:54   probably just judge the features and new [TS]

01:17:56   applications on on their intentions and [TS]

01:18:00   their implementation and not get hung up [TS]

01:18:02   on predicting the future of niggling [TS]

01:18:06   little bugs so what do you think it's [TS]

01:18:13   nothing less than I expected for me I [TS]

01:18:19   really wish I do could talk about the [TS]

01:18:21   internals because there are some talk [TS]

01:18:22   about them but now I can't do it can't [TS]

01:18:24   do it it's under its under NDA why would [TS]

01:18:29   today was supposed to be they were to [TS]

01:18:30   talk about file systems remember that I [TS]

01:18:32   do remember that that's a long time ago [TS]

01:18:33   I still have notes on that I have not [TS]

01:18:36   looked so I can say this without fear of [TS]

01:18:38   breaking NDA but my guess is that [TS]

01:18:41   nothing exciting happening on the file [TS]

01:18:43   system front tonight but I don't know [TS]

01:18:44   that for a fact because I literally have [TS]

01:18:45   not looked but I will be sad if that's [TS]

01:18:48   true very sad and we can talk about why [TS]

01:18:51   perhaps on another show yeah I'm glad [TS]

01:18:56   that well so a couple couple of [TS]

01:18:59   questions I guess that are sort of [TS]

01:19:00   related to the way that you will maybe [TS]

01:19:03   be writing this review and using what [TS]

01:19:06   are your plans then immediately will you [TS]

01:19:09   be confiscating your wife's computer [TS]

01:19:11   will you be installing [TS]

01:19:13   molo on it I installed it and ran it on [TS]

01:19:17   I mean I have many disks so I installed [TS]

01:19:19   it and played with it on my Mac Pro last [TS]

01:19:20   night but when I'm writing my review I [TS]

01:19:25   like to have like my environment on my [TS]

01:19:27   Mac Pro to do the writing sure and I [TS]

01:19:29   don't like to sort of and I like to be [TS]

01:19:31   testing a pretty clean machine so I have [TS]

01:19:33   a dedicated iCloud account just for [TS]

01:19:35   review writing so it's not it's not my [TS]

01:19:38   real contacts it's not my real stuff [TS]

01:19:39   it's not the accumulated cruft of [TS]

01:19:41   twenty-something years of me bringing [TS]

01:19:44   high information around like I don't [TS]

01:19:45   want it to try something in the OS and [TS]

01:19:46   have it not work because I have some [TS]

01:19:48   corrupted preference file from ten years [TS]

01:19:49   ago so I like to have a nice clean [TS]

01:19:50   install a new Apple ID and just get like [TS]

01:19:53   the experience that a new user would get [TS]

01:19:54   setting everything up and doing things [TS]

01:19:56   so that's why I need a second computer [TS]

01:19:59   now since the line [TS]

01:20:02   interview when I did me this deal my [TS]

01:20:03   wife's computer to have hers running [TS]

01:20:04   line next to me she's since gotten a new [TS]

01:20:07   computer she has 11 and Jer now with the [TS]

01:20:09   big Thunderbolt Display and everything [TS]

01:20:11   so the old MacBook Pro that's like the [TS]

01:20:14   pre unibody MacBook Pro the one right [TS]

01:20:16   before that is completely free for me to [TS]

01:20:18   use and not have to bother her computer [TS]

01:20:20   at all of course so that's what I did [TS]

01:20:22   today I've installed mountain lion on it [TS]

01:20:24   booted up logged in and core image [TS]

01:20:27   doesn't work so nothing draws the menus [TS]

01:20:29   don't draw I can't launch any [TS]

01:20:30   applications I can just sit there [TS]

01:20:32   looking at the doc in the menus I can't [TS]

01:20:33   even pull down a menu so some sort of [TS]

01:20:36   GPU driver bug in the previous is [TS]

01:20:38   previous and the preview release of [TS]

01:20:40   mountain lion which means that I cannot [TS]

01:20:41   actually use her MacBook Pro until I [TS]

01:20:43   guess the next Developer Preview so I [TS]

01:20:46   was trying to install it in VMware I [TS]

01:20:48   heard you say that people were saying [TS]

01:20:50   that they did not have success [TS]

01:20:51   installing mountain lion in VMware but [TS]

01:20:52   I've heard from at least one person who [TS]

01:20:54   has had success instilling that mind [TS]

01:20:56   VMware so so the person I don't know the [TS]

01:20:58   details of the person I had just seen [TS]

01:21:00   Arnold Kim who does the MacRumors stuff [TS]

01:21:03   uh that's he doesn't he does the Mac [TS]

01:21:06   rumors right I yes I think so yeah so he [TS]

01:21:09   had retweeted somebody else who had a [TS]

01:21:12   screenshot of the kernel of a kernel [TS]

01:21:14   panic when trying to give it who knows I [TS]

01:21:17   mean that was that was done near 24 [TS]

01:21:19   hours ago a lot has happened since the [TS]

01:21:21   VMware is touchy like in preparation for [TS]

01:21:25   getting mountain lion on island update [TS]

01:21:26   update my line VM 210 73 because it was [TS]

01:21:30   on ten 72 because I hadn't run it in a [TS]

01:21:31   while and by the way running lion in [TS]

01:21:33   VMware is actually officially supported [TS]

01:21:35   and allowed it's not some illicit thing [TS]

01:21:36   like VMware supports that you're allowed [TS]

01:21:37   to do it it works without any hoops [TS]

01:21:39   jumping through just straightforward [TS]

01:21:40   install and during the ten seven two to [TS]

01:21:43   three update in VMware this progress bar [TS]

01:21:47   like stop the midway through I noticed [TS]

01:21:48   that time machine was grinding the disc [TS]

01:21:50   so I saw all right stop time machine [TS]

01:21:52   don't back up you know stop backing up [TS]

01:21:54   let let VMware go and VMware would not [TS]

01:21:56   progress anymore and I'm assuming it's [TS]

01:22:00   some sort of weird interaction of like [TS]

01:22:01   file locking or maybe there's some sort [TS]

01:22:03   of deadlock or where VMware is waiting [TS]

01:22:05   for permission from a lock acquired by [TS]

01:22:07   time machine to continue its work if [TS]

01:22:09   someone wasn't thinking along those [TS]

01:22:11   lines and wasn't running like FS usage [TS]

01:22:13   like I was from the command line and [TS]

01:22:14   whether you know DTrace type stuff to [TS]

01:22:16   figure out what the heck's going on they [TS]

01:22:18   may just assume that it's impossible to [TS]

01:22:19   upgrade from ten seventy two to three [TS]

01:22:21   and vmware but it's not true it's just [TS]

01:22:23   they I'm assuming somewhere there's some [TS]

01:22:25   sort of like deadlock situation so what [TS]

01:22:27   I did was totally shut down the vm [TS]

01:22:29   machine quit the application to release [TS]

01:22:31   all locks turned off time machine [TS]

01:22:33   brought the thing back up redid the [TS]

01:22:34   update from from the last snapshot and [TS]

01:22:36   suddenly it worked so the people who [TS]

01:22:38   tried to install mountain lion in the [TS]

01:22:40   kernel panicked you know maybe something [TS]

01:22:43   else was going on that was angering [TS]

01:22:44   vmware because it's you know it's the [TS]

01:22:46   type of thing where it that's why i [TS]

01:22:48   think it's totally plausible that [TS]

01:22:50   somebody was successful in somebody was [TS]

01:22:52   not or that somebody was successful with [TS]

01:22:53   their second try but not with their [TS]

01:22:54   first try so i maintain hope that it [TS]

01:22:56   will that i will be able to install it [TS]

01:22:58   and I also hope that whatever the next [TS]

01:22:59   developer preview of mountain lion is [TS]

01:23:01   will install on my wife's old laptop so [TS]

01:23:02   I don't have to steal her macbook air [TS]

01:23:04   again which she has angrily forbidden me [TS]

01:23:07   from doing but what's the other yeah you [TS]

01:23:11   know it's also actually I don't even [TS]

01:23:12   think I can do that because like I said [TS]

01:23:13   I steal the air and I put it on the desk [TS]

01:23:15   next to me obviously I'm not going to [TS]

01:23:16   actually install mountain lion on the [TS]

01:23:18   air like it's always on an external [TS]

01:23:19   drive but then how do I connect the [TS]

01:23:20   external drive to the air I don't have [TS]

01:23:22   any thunderbolt drives and all the [TS]

01:23:24   external drives that are currently [TS]

01:23:25   connected are computer are done through [TS]

01:23:26   the Thunderbolt Display and that's all [TS]

01:23:28   in the other side of the rooms not [TS]

01:23:29   movable so I'll have to figure something [TS]

01:23:31   out [TS]

01:23:32   or I could just try to get a writing [TS]

01:23:34   environment up in Mountain Lion I mean I [TS]

01:23:36   suppose I could do that just it doesn't [TS]

01:23:40   feel right to me like having a separate [TS]

01:23:41   stuff but now that you're on a yearly [TS]

01:23:43   cycle for this I would think that you [TS]

01:23:47   would need a computer that you could [TS]

01:23:48   dedicate for this it's clearly something [TS]

01:23:50   you're going to need it's not like [TS]

01:23:52   you're going to get you know three years [TS]

01:23:54   in between your reviews anymore you'll [TS]

01:23:56   be you will be working on this on an [TS]

01:23:58   ongoing basis you will require a [TS]

01:24:01   dedicated computer for this I would [TS]

01:24:05   think that you need to acquire one well [TS]

01:24:08   in the natural cycle of recycling [TS]

01:24:11   computers that should happen like my [TS]

01:24:12   wife's MacBook Pro which is you know [TS]

01:24:14   it's got four gigs of RAM it's it's a [TS]

01:24:15   quality machine it's nothing wrong with [TS]

01:24:17   it it's it's perfectly capable of [TS]

01:24:19   running a mountain line even though it's [TS]

01:24:20   not you know it's not even a unibody [TS]

01:24:22   MacBook Pro so it in theory that should [TS]

01:24:24   be like oh she gets a new computer and I [TS]

01:24:26   use her old one and if they [TS]

01:24:27   make new Mac Pros come out Ivybridge [TS]

01:24:29   Marco thank kill me if they ever produce [TS]

01:24:33   numerous a new Mac Pro I will buy one [TS]

01:24:36   pretty quickly and then I'll have an old [TS]

01:24:38   Mac Pro this machine is still awesome [TS]

01:24:39   that I'm using right now and that old [TS]

01:24:41   Mac Pro would become the machine so I [TS]

01:24:42   don't feel like I need to buy a separate [TS]

01:24:44   machine for it I should just have them [TS]

01:24:45   as a natural process of me constantly [TS]

01:24:46   getting new Macs it's just for in a [TS]

01:24:48   weird situation here where the Mac Pro [TS]

01:24:50   refuses to ever be updated and the one [TS]

01:24:53   machine that I have it's perfect for our [TS]

01:24:54   testing mountain lion on the particular [TS]

01:24:56   developer preview that we have available [TS]

01:25:00   now is angry Cory Cory image is very [TS]

01:25:02   angry is the core image it could have [TS]

01:25:04   been CL instead of C I couldn't tell [TS]

01:25:06   from the font it could if it was CL it [TS]

01:25:08   could be an open CL thing I don't know [TS]

01:25:10   yeah I don't know anyway [TS]

01:25:12   graphics drivers angry there are you [TS]

01:25:14   angry on that machine so it's useless [TS]

01:25:16   Gruber says that I should end my show [TS]

01:25:19   early and sit in a talk-show I can't [TS]

01:25:21   tell if he's joking um be great if you [TS]

01:25:24   want to but you you have to stop that [TS]

01:25:26   I'm trying to bring it and that's that [TS]

01:25:28   so we can do his show [TS]

01:25:29   that's hot job you got to tell me that [TS]

01:25:31   you said we got a hard stop at 1:30 is [TS]

01:25:33   like all you got to go somewhere be some [TS]

01:25:34   it's just Gruber that's not hard stop [TS]

01:25:35   come on like he's ever gonna be there [TS]

01:25:37   1:30 exactly he says he's listening [TS]

01:25:39   right now he is that is that's this is [TS]

01:25:41   strange he's actually here listening [TS]

01:25:43   live I don't think I don't know if he [TS]

01:25:44   ever does is maybe sick okay anyway I'm [TS]

01:25:48   all done so I will stop at 1:30 as [TS]

01:25:52   requests you don't want to sit in you [TS]

01:25:53   don't wanna be part of the talk shop [TS]

01:25:54   I'll sit in for a little while I can't [TS]

01:25:56   sit him for the whole show if he really [TS]

01:25:59   wants that I don't know if he's just [TS]

01:26:00   kidding well do you get it you [TS]

01:26:01   straighten out with him if you really [TS]

01:26:02   want to do it we're gonna end this show [TS]

01:26:05   first night yeah well end well so we'll [TS]

01:26:06   end this show so here's what you got to [TS]

01:26:08   do you want to follow this guy on [TS]

01:26:11   Twitter follow Syracuse at nosy si RAC [TS]

01:26:16   us a nosy in there and you now you're [TS]

01:26:20   blogging now you're writing recipes is a [TS]

01:26:22   pasta how to make pasta so maybe tell [TS]

01:26:25   what's the URL for that [TS]

01:26:26   that's Sark use that a tumblr calm [TS]

01:26:29   because I didn't come up with a good [TS]

01:26:30   domain for it I think that is a good [TS]

01:26:32   domain in 2012 that's whatever all the [TS]

01:26:34   kids have that yeah I like that almost [TS]

01:26:37   once a year can you put that into the [TS]

01:26:39   show notes can you [TS]

01:26:41   we'll do that even though we have not [TS]

01:26:42   discussed it I'll put in the show all [TS]

01:26:43   right now we have discussed well we have [TS]

01:26:45   so the show notes five by five TV slash [TS]

01:26:47   hypercritical slash fifty-five and we [TS]

01:26:52   want to say thanks very much to the the [TS]

01:26:53   lovely ladies at help spot calm the best [TS]

01:26:56   darn help desk software in the business [TS]

01:27:01   so go check them out to their supporters [TS]

01:27:05   of this show you can follow me on [TS]

01:27:06   twitter i'm dan benjamin and by the way [TS]

01:27:08   we just wanted to mention one more thing [TS]

01:27:11   which is last week you could not record [TS]

01:27:13   so we did a I don't know if it was [TS]

01:27:16   authorized or unauthorized but you you [TS]

01:27:19   didn't want it in the hyper critical [TS]

01:27:20   stream which is understandable it wasn't [TS]

01:27:23   a hyper critical show it was kind of [TS]

01:27:25   critical yeah you can call it kind of [TS]

01:27:27   critical it's a different show kind of [TS]

01:27:28   critical Marco Arment and Merlin Mann [TS]

01:27:31   joined me for a tribute to you where we [TS]

01:27:34   criticize some things and so that [TS]

01:27:38   episode 54 was not hypocritical is the [TS]

01:27:42   tribute yeah that was straight little [TS]

01:27:46   Jack Black reference for those of you in [TS]

01:27:48   the audience so we had episodes for [TS]

01:27:52   hypercritical is actually just a public [TS]

01:27:54   service announcement it was a non [TS]

01:27:55   episode and I only received one [TS]

01:27:57   complaint about that somebody who said [TS]

01:28:00   it paraphrasing but I I was all ready to [TS]

01:28:04   go and I hopped in the car and I was [TS]

01:28:06   ready for my hypercritical and instead I [TS]

01:28:09   got this crap you're telling me there [TS]

01:28:11   was no hypercritical shame on you and to [TS]

01:28:14   that person and anybody else who had the [TS]

01:28:15   similar experience I apologize that was [TS]

01:28:18   why I did want it to go into the stream [TS]

01:28:20   so that would not happen so I'm sorry if [TS]

01:28:22   I let you down but if you have if you [TS]

01:28:24   want to complain to someone about that [TS]

01:28:25   complain to me because I will not let [TS]

01:28:27   anything in the hypercritical feed that [TS]

01:28:28   does not feature me no not going to [TS]

01:28:31   happen I think that's perfectly valid to [TS]

01:28:33   your show and for people who didn't like [TS]

01:28:35   it this is why you should always [TS]

01:28:36   subscribe to these special feeds [TS]

01:28:37   subscribe to the after-dark subscribe to [TS]

01:28:39   the special subscribe to at the movies [TS]

01:28:41   they're low volume they're not there all [TS]

01:28:42   the time but you want to have them on [TS]

01:28:43   your iPod so just put them in there yeah [TS]

01:28:45   so shame on them yes alright well thanks [TS]

01:28:49   everybody for tuning in and we will be [TS]

01:28:51   back again next week by [TS]

01:29:02   you [TS]