92: The Tim Cook Era


00:00:00   this is hypercritical weekly talk show [TS]

00:00:03   ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

00:00:05   the world of Apple and related [TS]

00:00:06   technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

00:00:08   so perfect that it can't be complained [TS]

00:00:11   about by my friend and yours John [TS]

00:00:14   siracusa I'm Dan Benjamin today is [TS]

00:00:16   Friday November second 2012 episode [TS]

00:00:19   number 92 far beloved hypercritical we [TS]

00:00:25   would like to say thanks very much to [TS]

00:00:26   our three sponsors for making this [TS]

00:00:27   program possible Shopify com lynda.com [TS]

00:00:31   and shutterstock.com we also want to [TS]

00:00:33   thank so much new band was sponsor for [TS]

00:00:36   month november my note and into dove my [TS]

00:00:38   mapping app for mac and iOS whether [TS]

00:00:40   you're brainstorming for your next [TS]

00:00:41   project organizing your life planning [TS]

00:00:44   your vacation no matter minor lets you [TS]

00:00:46   collect structured expand your ideas god [TS]

00:00:48   I'd cloud sharing built-in have your [TS]

00:00:51   mind maps with you wherever you go check [TS]

00:00:53   them out at mind node dot-com good [TS]

00:00:59   afternoon hello how are you doing this [TS]

00:01:02   fine day how is the weather how is your [TS]

00:01:05   power situation how are things holding [TS]

00:01:06   up in the Northeast uh everything's fine [TS]

00:01:10   here there we never even lost power I [TS]

00:01:12   noticed that your you're sort of [TS]

00:01:16   grandstanding a little bit uh by talking [TS]

00:01:19   about how your your kids were playing [TS]

00:01:21   through all sorts of video games and [TS]

00:01:23   like grandstanding well yeah we've got [TS]

00:01:27   power that kind of thing showboating is [TS]

00:01:30   that a better word I don't think either [TS]

00:01:32   one of those are proprio k and no I did [TS]

00:01:37   a lot some trees down in the [TS]

00:01:38   neighborhood but nothing bad happened to [TS]

00:01:42   my house and we didn't lose power good [TS]

00:01:44   was that the topic of the building to [TS]

00:01:49   analyze you talked about New York [TS]

00:01:51   whether things did you not listen I did [TS]

00:01:54   not listen I intentionally did not some [TS]

00:01:55   Hall uh I will go on record and say I'm [TS]

00:02:00   prepared to be surprised but I think we [TS]

00:02:02   covered every possible topic you could [TS]

00:02:04   possibly cover if it has to do with [TS]

00:02:06   anything that's happened in the last [TS]

00:02:08   couple weeks well that's why I didn't [TS]

00:02:10   listen because you know I assumed there [TS]

00:02:12   was going to be [TS]

00:02:13   lots of overlap and it's much easier for [TS]

00:02:15   me to talk about them it you know [TS]

00:02:17   without feeling self-conscious if I [TS]

00:02:18   hadn't actually heard what other people [TS]

00:02:20   said so hmm well Marcos and my entire [TS]

00:02:24   goal of the show was to cover every [TS]

00:02:26   topic that you could possibly bring up I [TS]

00:02:28   think we did it high five all right well [TS]

00:02:31   but I didn't hear it I know that's all [TS]

00:02:33   right now this is all new to me and you [TS]

00:02:34   have to you know do the little men and [TS]

00:02:36   black Mindwipe things so that you can [TS]

00:02:38   now come to these topics again fresh cuz [TS]

00:02:40   you gotta do both shows yeah and I did [TS]

00:02:42   the frequency new show this morning so I [TS]

00:02:44   this will be my third current events [TS]

00:02:46   show today that's right well like each [TS]

00:02:48   time you feel like you're getting closer [TS]

00:02:50   to the truth of the matter right now [TS]

00:02:52   that no absolute I feel like if there's [TS]

00:02:54   any doubt about getting to the heart of [TS]

00:02:56   the matter by the end of this show will [TS]

00:02:58   have definitely done it here yeah let me [TS]

00:03:01   just get my I didn't think you would [TS]

00:03:02   actually finish so soon and since I [TS]

00:03:04   wasn't listening I didn't know when [TS]

00:03:05   you're gonna end let me just get mine [TS]

00:03:07   I'd hate to keep you waiting I've [TS]

00:03:08   learned my lesson you've not learned [TS]

00:03:10   your lesson I have learned it you [TS]

00:03:11   learned nothing I learned something but [TS]

00:03:16   not much does it ever occurred to you [TS]

00:03:18   Dan you like that movie I don't see that [TS]

00:03:23   a long time well it's a very good [TS]

00:03:25   Halloween movie matter to you all your [TS]

00:03:28   point the owners place their complete [TS]

00:03:30   confidence and trust in me that I've [TS]

00:03:32   signed a letter of agreement a contract [TS]

00:03:33   you're so obsessed with that one little [TS]

00:03:36   passage that one scene it now like when [TS]

00:03:38   I watch it again it'll be it'll be a [TS]

00:03:40   letdown ya know he does that's not how [TS]

00:03:43   Dan does it he must want some dude trust [TS]

00:03:45   me he does it better all right let's see [TS]

00:03:50   what we got here we all said that [TS]

00:03:52   already gotta get my chat windows [TS]

00:03:54   arranged so I can see all the people all [TS]

00:03:56   other people who kept mentioning me [TS]

00:04:00   during the chat and I was trying to [TS]

00:04:02   ignore them know he resized my window [TS]

00:04:04   from the top see see what happens did [TS]

00:04:06   you find a stranger in the alps like i [TS]

00:04:08   did that thing where you try to move the [TS]

00:04:09   though and you accidentally grabbed it [TS]

00:04:12   accidentally grabbed the top edge of it [TS]

00:04:14   yeah and cited now my windows the wrong [TS]

00:04:16   side ah there's no one do for window [TS]

00:04:18   resizing I just burned the computer to [TS]

00:04:21   the ground now start all over [TS]

00:04:23   alright I have a lot of notes you're on [TS]

00:04:27   fire today very disorganized I like this [TS]

00:04:31   this new siracusa same old all right [TS]

00:04:36   follow up let's dive in dive in all [TS]

00:04:39   right on the last show we discussed the [TS]

00:04:43   Microsoft Surface a bit and has it [TS]

00:04:46   relates to the ipad mini both of which [TS]

00:04:48   came out around the same time or [TS]

00:04:49   announced 11 ship timon was announced [TS]

00:04:53   and at one point we're discussing [TS]

00:04:55   storage sizes and how the mini comes in [TS]

00:04:58   16 but the smallest surface is 32 and [TS]

00:05:01   I'd mentioned that someone said [TS]

00:05:02   something about the OS on the surface [TS]

00:05:05   taking up like 12 gigabytes so that 32 [TS]

00:05:07   gig model really you only got 20 left [TS]

00:05:09   after everything's in there so Karsten [TS]

00:05:12   sills and a couple of that people wrote [TS]

00:05:14   in with more concrete numbers on how [TS]

00:05:16   much room is taken up this is pulled [TS]

00:05:18   from the anon tech review of Windows RT [TS]

00:05:21   and the surface and all that stuff link [TS]

00:05:23   is in the show notes and on says that [TS]

00:05:26   between 6.5 and 7.5 gigabytes are taken [TS]

00:05:29   up with the OS and then another 750 to [TS]

00:05:31   850 megabytes for office which comes [TS]

00:05:33   with the thing so it's not 12 total [TS]

00:05:36   taken up I said it he had about 25 gigs [TS]

00:05:40   left on a 32 gig surface not much [TS]

00:05:45   alright no no that's actually wrongly [TS]

00:05:47   said it said 25 gigs have started to [TS]

00:05:48   start with so after Windows and Office [TS]

00:05:50   well it's 17 gigs left for programs and [TS]

00:05:53   documents ah sorry the general idea that [TS]

00:05:56   the OS and office take up a lot of room [TS]

00:05:59   on the shipping service is true and [TS]

00:06:02   that's probably why like on a 16 if you [TS]

00:06:06   had seven or eight dedicated to that [TS]

00:06:08   then it's down to like 10 you know [TS]

00:06:10   anyway the general idea that the surface [TS]

00:06:13   software takes up more room than does [TS]

00:06:15   the ipad is still valid but the numbers [TS]

00:06:17   from last week were incorrect and [TS]

00:06:18   according to non tech these are the [TS]

00:06:19   numbers he actually saw on his devices [TS]

00:06:20   something else from last week discussing [TS]

00:06:24   and now we're I guess we're talking [TS]

00:06:26   about new hardware or maybe in the past [TS]

00:06:27   about the macbook pro screens where [TS]

00:06:31   they're fusing the glass to the display [TS]

00:06:34   for the retina right models [TS]

00:06:36   as opposed to having an LCD panel and [TS]

00:06:38   then like a small air gap and then just [TS]

00:06:40   like a piece of glass so that I was [TS]

00:06:41   saying if you you know dropped your keys [TS]

00:06:43   on your screen or scratched it or [TS]

00:06:45   something you haven't actually scratched [TS]

00:06:47   the screen with the old way you could [TS]

00:06:48   just replace the glass on the front and [TS]

00:06:50   the LCD panel itself is protected by [TS]

00:06:52   this sacrificial glass and they're not [TS]

00:06:54   fused together apparently even on those [TS]

00:06:57   old models where it had the piece of [TS]

00:06:59   glass and then the screen if you were to [TS]

00:07:01   do that like scratch it up or and get a [TS]

00:07:03   thing replaced they always replaced it [TS]

00:07:05   as a single module anyway like they [TS]

00:07:06   replaced the screen and the glass at the [TS]

00:07:08   same time that's that's from stephen [TS]

00:07:10   hackett on twitter and then Thomas brand [TS]

00:07:13   on Twitter explained it because I asked [TS]

00:07:15   why why would they why wouldn't they [TS]

00:07:16   just replace the glass he said it's [TS]

00:07:17   because the glass is glued to the lid [TS]

00:07:19   and the two can't be removed without [TS]

00:07:20   heat and so they don't do that repair in [TS]

00:07:23   the Apple stores you know in the back [TS]

00:07:25   room with like a heat gun or whatever [TS]

00:07:27   it's just like they just sorry just give [TS]

00:07:28   them a whole new thing so that's why [TS]

00:07:29   they replace it as you mentioned I don't [TS]

00:07:32   know I mean I guess I don't want them [TS]

00:07:33   removing it or maybe the type of thing [TS]

00:07:35   where if you use a heat gun to like [TS]

00:07:36   loosen up the glue and you pull it out [TS]

00:07:37   like it's never the same again and it'll [TS]

00:07:39   never get glued back right so they just [TS]

00:07:40   replace it as a unit and finally on the [TS]

00:07:43   topic also from Twitter Tanner Silva [TS]

00:07:45   said that he got his screen replaced on [TS]

00:07:49   his 15-inch retina MacBook Pro and the [TS]

00:07:51   total cost was eight hundred and [TS]

00:07:52   forty-six dollars hmm so not cheap be [TS]

00:07:56   careful with those screens on the topic [TS]

00:08:00   of the imac the new iMac which we [TS]

00:08:02   discussed last time we were talking [TS]

00:08:04   about why is that chin still there that [TS]

00:08:07   why doesn't just look like you know the [TS]

00:08:08   monitor the chinky smaller and [TS]

00:08:10   de-emphasize but is still there it's got [TS]

00:08:12   the apple logo on the front of it which [TS]

00:08:13   seems weird for Apple who's on their iOS [TS]

00:08:15   devices any not all about shoving the [TS]

00:08:17   apple logo in your face but here on the [TS]

00:08:18   imac berries do it and what was your [TS]

00:08:20   speculation as to why laughing seemed [TS]

00:08:23   like just to differentiate it from being [TS]

00:08:25   a monitor and just to make it more clear [TS]

00:08:26   that it's a computer right and the chin [TS]

00:08:30   has been de-emphasized a couple theories [TS]

00:08:31   about why the tuna there some people [TS]

00:08:32   said this stuff in the chin i said [TS]

00:08:34   they're like there's nothing in the chin [TS]

00:08:35   there is stuff in the chin you know like [TS]

00:08:37   the ram and the speakers and stuff like [TS]

00:08:39   that but I mean that stuff could all fit [TS]

00:08:42   behind monitor like maybe they couldn't [TS]

00:08:44   have a five millimeter edge on the [TS]

00:08:45   bottom if that was the case but it's not [TS]

00:08:46   like it's not like there's not room [TS]

00:08:47   behind [TS]

00:08:48   giant monitor for all the pieces of the [TS]

00:08:49   imac but a couple of other theories from [TS]

00:08:53   this one from jack / on twitter and a [TS]

00:08:55   couple other people had similar feedback [TS]

00:08:57   is that there's stuff behind the apple [TS]

00:08:59   logo on the front of the thing he says [TS]

00:09:02   that the bluetooth antenna is there we [TS]

00:09:04   just got to have somewhere working radio [TS]

00:09:06   signal out and so if it's trapped inside [TS]

00:09:07   this metal case hmm if you can't get [TS]

00:09:09   through the screen you know cuz the [TS]

00:09:10   screen will be blocking the signal so we [TS]

00:09:11   can't get back out the back because [TS]

00:09:12   that's metal you need some sort of radio [TS]

00:09:14   transparent region on the case for the [TS]

00:09:16   signals come out and I think someone [TS]

00:09:18   else said that they thought the Wi-Fi [TS]

00:09:19   stuff was in there so using it as a [TS]

00:09:21   window for a wireless stuff I think [TS]

00:09:25   that's happened before on iOS devices it [TS]

00:09:27   was in the apple logo on one of the [TS]

00:09:28   iphones used for like or maybe was the [TS]

00:09:31   ipad i did they put wireless stuff in [TS]

00:09:34   behind the apple logo I didn't I didn't [TS]

00:09:36   I don't recall that but I bet you're [TS]

00:09:37   right and we well I yeah I don't [TS]

00:09:41   remember I know they had like that the [TS]

00:09:43   3g model always has the plastic stripe [TS]

00:09:45   on the ipad and that's like oh you know [TS]

00:09:47   the non 3g one doesn't have that then [TS]

00:09:49   the question okay on the non 3g one [TS]

00:09:50   where you don't have the big plastic [TS]

00:09:51   stripe on the top where does the Wi-Fi [TS]

00:09:54   come out of in the answer to that i [TS]

00:09:55   think was at some point in the past if [TS]

00:09:57   it's not currently true the plastic [TS]

00:10:00   apple logo so there you go so maybe [TS]

00:10:02   that's one of the reasons they keep that [TS]

00:10:03   stuff in there it's just kind of like [TS]

00:10:04   well we got a place for the stuff again [TS]

00:10:05   no reason they couldn't just get rid of [TS]

00:10:07   the chin and make a little stripe of [TS]

00:10:08   plastic on the bottom edge that you [TS]

00:10:10   wouldn't see that would take care of [TS]

00:10:12   that for them uh one more from Michael [TS]

00:10:17   stark we were talking about the thing [TS]

00:10:20   where the iPad Mini is supposed to [TS]

00:10:21   ignore your thumb when you're just [TS]

00:10:23   holding it and supposed to know like is [TS]

00:10:25   he trying to use his thumb to use the [TS]

00:10:27   device or just holding it there to [TS]

00:10:28   happen to go over the edge because the [TS]

00:10:29   border on the left and right side is [TS]

00:10:32   there a term for that that whole process [TS]

00:10:33   what the process of ignoring it yeah the [TS]

00:10:36   the is there like a term for that [TS]

00:10:38   phenomenon of you have your thumb on the [TS]

00:10:42   device and we are going to ignore it [TS]

00:10:44   well there's a bunch of events in Cocoa [TS]

00:10:49   this is not from this piece of feedback [TS]

00:10:50   from other stuff that didn't have time [TS]

00:10:52   to pull into the notes with attribution [TS]

00:10:54   that there's a the event system for you [TS]

00:10:57   I kid has like a bunch of callback [TS]

00:11:00   events for like you know [TS]

00:11:01   they are not thumb but I touches our [TS]

00:11:03   stationary or touches is resting i'm [TS]

00:11:05   getting these names wrong but there's a [TS]

00:11:06   bunch of events that are supposed to [TS]

00:11:09   signal that something is happening in a [TS]

00:11:12   way that doesn't necessarily indicate [TS]

00:11:14   input i don't remember the exact names [TS]

00:11:17   but all of them are they're not names [TS]

00:11:19   like thumb totally didn't mean it [TS]

00:11:21   there's no event like they're not [TS]

00:11:24   they're not ascribing a motivation to [TS]

00:11:26   the touch they're merely saying you know [TS]

00:11:28   this touch is stationary or this touch [TS]

00:11:30   has become stationary then you can [TS]

00:11:32   decide what policy you want to do based [TS]

00:11:33   on that I'm sure that's you know part of [TS]

00:11:35   the mechanism they're using but it's [TS]

00:11:37   it's part of the public event system but [TS]

00:11:38   I don't know if there's some larger name [TS]

00:11:40   for unintentional input but well you [TS]

00:11:43   brought up the thing on the laptop [TS]

00:11:46   trackpad so ignore accidental trackpad [TS]

00:11:49   input yeah that used to have a checkbox [TS]

00:11:51   like on and off and you know you'd [TS]

00:11:53   always want that to be off because you [TS]

00:11:54   put it on it would decide they were just [TS]

00:11:56   start ignoring you and say oh looks like [TS]

00:11:58   you're probably just typing on the [TS]

00:11:59   keyboard and your hand brushed up [TS]

00:12:00   against the trackpad I'm going to ignore [TS]

00:12:01   that you and in reality what you've done [TS]

00:12:04   is changed from typing to quickly move [TS]

00:12:05   something move the cursor with your [TS]

00:12:07   thumb and then would ignore it and it [TS]

00:12:08   was incredibly frustrating uh so Michael [TS]

00:12:11   Stark tweeted to say that Apple has [TS]

00:12:14   removed the GUI for that setting I [TS]

00:12:16   remember you were looking forward in the [TS]

00:12:17   show yeah you find it nope so there's a [TS]

00:12:20   tech note that i linked in the a lot of [TS]

00:12:22   techno did say i don't knowledgebase [TS]

00:12:24   article from apple's website that i [TS]

00:12:27   linked in the show notes and it says are [TS]

00:12:29   you trying to locate the ignore [TS]

00:12:31   accidental trackpad input trackpad [TS]

00:12:33   option yes we were trying to look at if [TS]

00:12:35   you're trying to locate it on your [TS]

00:12:37   macbook macbook pro or macbook air [TS]

00:12:38   computer with a multi-touch trackpad [TS]

00:12:40   that preference is no longer there and [TS]

00:12:44   that functionality to ignore excel [TS]

00:12:46   inputs is enabled automatically by [TS]

00:12:48   default for these devices i think the [TS]

00:12:50   reason that it no longer bothers us is [TS]

00:12:52   because the old track pads that had that [TS]

00:12:55   option were not multi-touch i don't know [TS]

00:12:57   how many touch they sense maybe they [TS]

00:12:58   only sent two or whatever but they [TS]

00:12:59   weren't like the current glass trackpad [TS]

00:13:01   switch to probably do five points 10 [TS]

00:13:03   points i don't even know how many points [TS]

00:13:04   that multi-touch they do but there was [TS]

00:13:05   like a dividing line between the the [TS]

00:13:07   quote-unquote non multi-touch trackpad [TS]

00:13:09   even though i think they can handle more [TS]

00:13:11   than one touch and then the multi-touch [TS]

00:13:12   ones and it's much easier to figure out [TS]

00:13:15   what's intentional from unintentional if [TS]

00:13:17   you can sense all the sort of things [TS]

00:13:19   that are touching where you know versus [TS]

00:13:21   a trackpad that can only sense one or [TS]

00:13:23   two points of touching and it has to [TS]

00:13:24   decide which one of those is the real [TS]

00:13:25   one so if you accidentally brushed up [TS]

00:13:28   against a non multi-touch trackpad with [TS]

00:13:29   like five fingers the hardware is only [TS]

00:13:32   going to send like two of those to the [TS]

00:13:33   device and it's got to figure out what's [TS]

00:13:35   going on so it seems that once they went [TS]

00:13:37   to multi-touch now they have enough [TS]

00:13:38   information from all the touches and a [TS]

00:13:41   much more sensitive touch interface to [TS]

00:13:43   be able to turn that policy on by [TS]

00:13:45   default so they can better determine [TS]

00:13:46   what's accidental so that I guess [TS]

00:13:48   probably bodes well for the the iPad [TS]

00:13:50   minis implementation of this if we hit [TS]

00:13:53   both of us didn't even notice that this [TS]

00:13:54   is now on by default on on laptop track [TS]

00:13:56   pads and the multi-touch error right did [TS]

00:14:01   you get before we get off that topic did [TS]

00:14:03   you get your ipad mini yet I know you [TS]

00:14:04   just said it was like on its way through [TS]

00:14:06   the distribution center blah blah blah [TS]

00:14:08   you've been tracking an effect right it [TS]

00:14:09   is on fedex vehicle for delivery [TS]

00:14:11   delivering to our you corporate [TS]

00:14:13   headquarters UPS store so it will be [TS]

00:14:16   here at some point today it's not been [TS]

00:14:18   delivered yet they say by 3pm i believe [TS]

00:14:20   them so i will have it sometime later [TS]

00:14:23   today I'm sure all right it's not going [TS]

00:14:27   to arrive while record it will not test [TS]

00:14:29   no even if it is delivered that's not [TS]

00:14:31   here so no chance no chance all right [TS]

00:14:36   first sponsor good idea I mean why not [TS]

00:14:41   right Shopify calm hosted e-commerce [TS]

00:14:45   solution allows you to set up and run [TS]

00:14:46   your own online store in minutes they [TS]

00:14:49   say minutes i say moments you just pick [TS]

00:14:51   a template you add your products you [TS]

00:14:53   pick your payment processor could be [TS]

00:14:54   paypal stripe authorize.net whatever and [TS]

00:14:57   you just ship your stuff just a few [TS]

00:15:00   clicks it's easy to sell online there's [TS]

00:15:02   no software to download nothing to host [TS]

00:15:04   nothing to upgrade nothing to maintain [TS]

00:15:05   they do everything you can pick from [TS]

00:15:07   over a hundred professionally designed [TS]

00:15:09   ecommerce templates or you just create [TS]

00:15:11   your own make it look exactly the way [TS]

00:15:13   you want make it look exactly like your [TS]

00:15:14   own website you get full control over [TS]

00:15:17   the HTML and CSS there's no bandwidth [TS]

00:15:19   limits you have to worry about scaling [TS]

00:15:22   they handle redundancy failover [TS]

00:15:25   everything [TS]

00:15:26   and they're pci level one pci DSS [TS]

00:15:29   compliant totally secure all you need is [TS]

00:15:31   something to sell special URL Shopify [TS]

00:15:36   calm / 5 x 5 first of all just go there [TS]

00:15:39   and check out what they have to offer [TS]

00:15:40   look at their examples page look at what [TS]

00:15:41   you can build a lot of the sites that [TS]

00:15:43   you're already using when you go and you [TS]

00:15:45   buy stuff there Shopify sites and you [TS]

00:15:47   have no idea because they look exactly [TS]

00:15:49   like the site that you were you're at [TS]

00:15:51   good example this is the book apart site [TS]

00:15:53   that's all Shopify look how they've [TS]

00:15:55   handled it look how they've stopped it [TS]

00:15:56   Shopify com such five by five you get [TS]

00:15:59   three months free instead of just our [TS]

00:16:01   usual 30 days free go check them out [TS]

00:16:03   support the show thanks very much for to [TS]

00:16:04   them for making show possible all right [TS]

00:16:09   ready yeah before we get off the topic [TS]

00:16:12   of the apple logo chin thing yes on [TS]

00:16:15   Twitter like Michael ago Mike the goat [TS]

00:16:17   he says they do it in a goat voice yeah [TS]

00:16:21   I can't duck into a goat okay yeah this [TS]

00:16:24   is this piece of feedback was also sent [TS]

00:16:26   by a lot of people but he's good to [TS]

00:16:27   remind us of that it's not just [TS]

00:16:28   bluetooth and Wi-Fi also the IR think [TS]

00:16:30   maybe we forget that these things have [TS]

00:16:32   you know I are now that they don't come [TS]

00:16:34   with your remote anymore I don't think I [TS]

00:16:35   think I stopped shipping that remote but [TS]

00:16:37   at one point they shipped a little [TS]

00:16:38   cruddy plastic remote that's stuck to [TS]

00:16:40   the side of the imac with a magnet [TS]

00:16:42   remember that yeah there's a that was [TS]

00:16:43   funny little little white plastic and it [TS]

00:16:46   had the little I'm an infrared remote [TS]

00:16:48   band across the top of it yeah chiku [TS]

00:16:52   things but anyway the n ir receiver [TS]

00:16:54   obviously has to be its line of sight so [TS]

00:16:56   you can't just put the little strip on [TS]

00:16:59   the back but i still have full [TS]

00:17:00   confidence that Apple could find a place [TS]

00:17:02   to hide the IR receiver like behind the [TS]

00:17:04   black border of this screen or something [TS]

00:17:07   you know like it doesn't I don't think [TS]

00:17:09   it has to necessarily be Annapolis it's [TS]

00:17:10   not like they have to keep the apple [TS]

00:17:11   logo just for the IR think there's [TS]

00:17:12   plenty of other front-facing things for [TS]

00:17:14   example they have a front facing camera [TS]

00:17:15   on these things and they're pretty darn [TS]

00:17:17   good at hiding that one doesn't that you [TS]

00:17:20   know our receivers don't have to be the [TS]

00:17:21   size of the apple logo they can be those [TS]

00:17:23   little tiny things all right I'm sure [TS]

00:17:28   you talked about this on build and [TS]

00:17:30   analyze this week someone in the chat [TS]

00:17:32   room just asked about it but this week [TS]

00:17:34   Disney purchase Lucasfilm and i'm sure [TS]

00:17:37   people want to hear what I have to say [TS]

00:17:38   about that [TS]

00:17:39   as it happens I beat marco to the punch [TS]

00:17:42   on this and i did an hour-long episode [TS]

00:17:44   of being comparable it was episode 114 [TS]

00:17:47   titled when you wish upon a star wars i [TS]

00:17:50   will put that into the show notes it's [TS]

00:17:52   already there a little oh no oh no yes [TS]

00:17:56   yeah so people who want to hear what I [TS]

00:17:59   have to say about the Star Wars stuff [TS]

00:18:00   that episode is already sitting in [TS]

00:18:02   itunes for you just go over to your [TS]

00:18:04   incomparable fee but you all subscribe [TS]

00:18:06   to write and pull up when you wish upon [TS]

00:18:08   a star wars and you can hear all about [TS]

00:18:09   it ah and now I don't have to talk about [TS]

00:18:12   it in the show because I have lots of [TS]

00:18:13   other things to discuss unless there's [TS]

00:18:14   any specific thing that you need to know [TS]

00:18:16   I don't know if you listen to that [TS]

00:18:17   something horrible but is there anything [TS]

00:18:18   specific that you're dying to know about [TS]

00:18:21   my take on the Lucas stuff there are [TS]

00:18:24   lots of things and I recommend this show [TS]

00:18:27   I recommend this episode of the show I'm [TS]

00:18:30   not done listening to it yet but [TS]

00:18:31   intentionally because I wanted to be [TS]

00:18:33   somewhat surprised for for you on your [TS]

00:18:37   responses and things on this show the [TS]

00:18:39   main question I think that folks have [TS]

00:18:41   you we have talked which which episode [TS]

00:18:43   did we discuss George Lucas and what he [TS]

00:18:48   has done to Star Wars let me see if do [TS]

00:18:52   you remember the episode number no I [TS]

00:18:54   never remember the episode numbers in [TS]

00:18:56   fact I was trying to find episode [TS]

00:18:57   numbers for like when we talked about [TS]

00:18:58   Windows 8 and I had difficulty even [TS]

00:18:59   finding madam I'm doing a bad job for [TS]

00:19:01   Star Wars is not a blog post that sounds [TS]

00:19:06   likely the People vs George Lucas yeah [TS]

00:19:09   that was probably is that the one okay [TS]

00:19:11   so this is episode number 45 of this [TS]

00:19:13   show let's see then there was another [TS]

00:19:16   one yeah that's it so I'll put that and [TS]

00:19:20   I'm pretty sure that's it i'll put that [TS]

00:19:21   in the show notes is first my first [TS]

00:19:23   question for you is is this a good thing [TS]

00:19:26   or a bad thing not because there's a [TS]

00:19:29   that's a loaded question first of all [TS]

00:19:31   you have George Lucas stepping back [TS]

00:19:33   stepping away and other people coming in [TS]

00:19:36   to do things with Star Wars first of all [TS]

00:19:39   second of all the announcement that [TS]

00:19:41   there will be new Star Wars movies [TS]

00:19:44   coming out every three or four days [TS]

00:19:46   there'll be a new Star Wars movie made [TS]

00:19:48   is that a good thing or a bad thing what [TS]

00:19:51   are your thoughts on this [TS]

00:19:52   as I said I mean comparable I think this [TS]

00:19:56   is a good thing completely a good thing [TS]

00:19:59   uh I always assumed that we'd have to [TS]

00:20:02   wait for George Lucas to die right [TS]

00:20:04   before well we all hoped that wouldn't [TS]

00:20:07   come to that but we answer that was that [TS]

00:20:10   was the assumption that he would have to [TS]

00:20:11   die before anyone would be able to start [TS]

00:20:13   fixing things because he was such a [TS]

00:20:15   control freak about it when you know [TS]

00:20:17   yadon but he was able he was able to [TS]

00:20:19   give it up and that's good and it's good [TS]

00:20:21   because it frees star wars from is his [TS]

00:20:26   control he had such strict control over [TS]

00:20:28   the the prequels and they were so [TS]

00:20:29   terrible being free of that control is [TS]

00:20:32   great because it gives other people more [TS]

00:20:34   talented people younger people hungry [TS]

00:20:35   people a crack at the franchise so I [TS]

00:20:38   think I think it's a good thing it gives [TS]

00:20:42   us a chance to possibly have the [TS]

00:20:43   unadulterated versions of the movies be [TS]

00:20:48   released all sorts of things that you [TS]

00:20:49   know all the dissatisfaction that star [TS]

00:20:52   wars fans have had with the franchise [TS]

00:20:53   all that potentially is cured by [TS]

00:20:58   bringing the franchise elsewhere so I [TS]

00:21:01   give I give it a thumbs up and I'm happy [TS]

00:21:03   and optimistic about what will happen it [TS]

00:21:06   could very well be that some terrible [TS]

00:21:08   things come out of that this terrible [TS]

00:21:09   television program is more terrible [TS]

00:21:11   movies but the fact that it's out of [TS]

00:21:13   control that one person means that lie [TS]

00:21:15   so it so you make some bad ones give [TS]

00:21:17   someone else a chance they can make some [TS]

00:21:18   good ones there's lots of things you can [TS]

00:21:20   do with the star wars franchise and now [TS]

00:21:22   that things like the movies which are [TS]

00:21:24   like okay well you can make you know [TS]

00:21:26   expanded universe novels and video games [TS]

00:21:27   and stuff like that but George Lucas is [TS]

00:21:29   the guy who says okay for the movies [TS]

00:21:30   like those were you know now now it's [TS]

00:21:32   not gated by one guy's whims like George [TS]

00:21:34   Lucas didn't feel like doing Star Wars [TS]

00:21:36   movie for a decade or two there was no [TS]

00:21:37   Star Wars movies for decades that snot [TS]

00:21:39   gonna happen anymore so I am optimistic [TS]

00:21:41   and I think it's a good thing I'm very [TS]

00:21:44   optimistic I think anything that gets [TS]

00:21:46   this away from George Lucas's personal [TS]

00:21:48   thoughts and opinions and feelings is it [TS]

00:21:53   is a good thing I think the further away [TS]

00:21:56   this is from George Lucas the better I'm [TS]

00:21:58   grateful that he had the idea for Star [TS]

00:21:59   Wars and then he was able to execute the [TS]

00:22:04   star wars empire star [TS]

00:22:05   back in to some degree that third one so [TS]

00:22:10   well and good let's get it away from him [TS]

00:22:15   and let's anything that I I can't [TS]

00:22:17   believe that they're going to do [TS]

00:22:18   anything that'll be worse than I think [TS]

00:22:21   what I think you can make things worse [TS]

00:22:22   as I said at the end of the maybe I'm [TS]

00:22:25   just more optimistic as I said at the [TS]

00:22:26   end of the uncomfortable I I can [TS]

00:22:28   definitely see movies being worse than [TS]

00:22:30   the prequels but nothing that they do [TS]

00:22:31   with the star wars franchise will feel [TS]

00:22:33   worse than the prequels felt because you [TS]

00:22:36   know it's not you know the and absolute [TS]

00:22:37   quality yeah you can make worst movies [TS]

00:22:39   and that no lots of ways but nothing [TS]

00:22:41   will feel that bad because we waited so [TS]

00:22:42   long and just it was inconceivable these [TS]

00:22:46   movies could be anything other than [TS]

00:22:47   awesome and they were terrible and it [TS]

00:22:48   was just the biggest letdown ever now [TS]

00:22:50   we're all we all bear those emotional [TS]

00:22:54   scars and have severed our relationship [TS]

00:22:57   with the franchise in some fashion in [TS]

00:22:59   order to move on with their lives and [TS]

00:23:00   now now we're free to enjoy the fruits [TS]

00:23:02   of other people's Labor's in this [TS]

00:23:03   universe without the expectations and [TS]

00:23:06   anticipation that accompanied the [TS]

00:23:08   prequels mm-hmm all right uh oh yeah it [TS]

00:23:14   wasn't the incomparable you won't hear [TS]

00:23:15   more about that I would have probably [TS]

00:23:19   didn't hit a dollar show to it if we had [TS]

00:23:20   not had that in copper but we did but so [TS]

00:23:23   do you feel people should just go and [TS]

00:23:25   listen that if they if they want in that [TS]

00:23:26   get leave Z room to stretch out this [TS]

00:23:28   episode that's right because I grab lots [TS]

00:23:30   of other things to discuss here so this [TS]

00:23:33   this next bit is follow-up but kind of [TS]

00:23:36   also the half topic for this show and [TS]

00:23:39   that is more about apples fusion drive [TS]

00:23:43   stuff we talked about last week mostly [TS]

00:23:46   just speculation because all we had to [TS]

00:23:48   go on was vague sort of slides in a [TS]

00:23:50   presentation and a couple of fact I [TS]

00:23:52   Tamannaah post uh but no nitty-gritty [TS]

00:23:54   technical details about the thing and [TS]

00:23:57   last week my guesses were that this was [TS]

00:24:01   implemented with course storage ah and I [TS]

00:24:06   mentioned on the show like Korra storage [TS]

00:24:08   has been around since the lion and you [TS]

00:24:10   could as of even lion just make two [TS]

00:24:12   disks and join them together into a [TS]

00:24:14   single volume and I mentioned I was [TS]

00:24:15   trying to do a demo like [TS]

00:24:16   for my lion review but it wasn't quite [TS]

00:24:18   working i was using disk images and it [TS]

00:24:20   was really buggy and stuff like that but [TS]

00:24:21   I that capability has been there in the [TS]

00:24:23   man page for you know disk your till [TS]

00:24:25   since 10-7 as I said you can do that [TS]

00:24:28   today you know just far as I presumably [TS]

00:24:29   it's less buggy now but I didn't [TS]

00:24:32   understand how that would how to square [TS]

00:24:34   that all with course start with uh with [TS]

00:24:36   fusion drive because fusion drive was [TS]

00:24:39   always described in terms of like oh and [TS]

00:24:41   these applications we use them alot will [TS]

00:24:42   end up on the SSD but this stuff you [TS]

00:24:44   know they talk about applications and [TS]

00:24:45   files but course storage works at the [TS]

00:24:47   block level it's not at the file level [TS]

00:24:49   so I didn't understand in Mike well [TS]

00:24:50   course towards just an umbrella term [TS]

00:24:52   they could have just implemented [TS]

00:24:53   something new that shuttles files back [TS]

00:24:56   and forth and works at the file level [TS]

00:24:58   and even though it's called core storage [TS]

00:24:59   it's not the same as the you know the [TS]

00:25:01   block based logical volume manager thing [TS]

00:25:04   that they use her foul ball to you know [TS]

00:25:05   we just didn't know because it wasn't [TS]

00:25:06   enough technical details released well [TS]

00:25:09   since last week someone named Patrick [TS]

00:25:10   Stein or jolly jinx on Twitter put up a [TS]

00:25:14   series of posts on his tumblr where he [TS]

00:25:16   did just want to describe last week [TS]

00:25:17   which is all right let me just take [TS]

00:25:19   course storage disk utility to disks [TS]

00:25:21   together into a single volume only what [TS]

00:25:23   he did was he took out my two discs [TS]

00:25:25   selling a drawing one is going to be an [TS]

00:25:26   SSD and one is it gonna be spinning disk [TS]

00:25:28   so I'm making my own fusion drive now [TS]

00:25:30   the underlying assumption for all these [TS]

00:25:32   posts is that what he's doing here with [TS]

00:25:35   disk utility core storage is what fusion [TS]

00:25:37   drive is uh and unless he has some [TS]

00:25:41   information that I don't or rather I [TS]

00:25:44   didn't really before during this week [TS]

00:25:46   he's just assuming they're like okay [TS]

00:25:49   well course storage is a fusion drives [TS]

00:25:50   gotta be done with course storage and [TS]

00:25:52   many that was my assumption as well and [TS]

00:25:53   basically more or less got that [TS]

00:25:54   confirmed from Apple but that doesn't [TS]

00:25:56   mean anything because like I said core [TS]

00:25:58   storage could be an umbrella term and so [TS]

00:25:59   and so forth and the reason I was so [TS]

00:26:03   skeptical of this being what Fusion [TS]

00:26:06   Drive is is because like I said [TS]

00:26:07   everything they described about fusion [TS]

00:26:09   drive was like oh it moves your files [TS]

00:26:10   for one place the other all your [TS]

00:26:12   applications or someplace else it never [TS]

00:26:14   talked about like you know blocked base [TS]

00:26:16   wear something you know just the disks [TS]

00:26:18   blocks that you read or on half on one [TS]

00:26:19   thing and half on the other like [TS]

00:26:20   block-based doesn't mean file system [TS]

00:26:23   blocks like 4k blocks and doesn't mean [TS]

00:26:24   disk blocks like you know sectors and [TS]

00:26:26   blocks it means the units of storage [TS]

00:26:28   that are managed by cora storages [TS]

00:26:30   logical volume manager and they have [TS]

00:26:34   nothing to do with file boundaries right [TS]

00:26:36   there just implementing it a block [TS]

00:26:38   storage device and the file system goes [TS]

00:26:41   on top of that but those the core [TS]

00:26:43   storage blocks it's shuffling around [TS]

00:26:44   have no idea what files they belong to [TS]

00:26:46   like you know they could span files and [TS]

00:26:48   stuff like that that's that they're [TS]

00:26:50   there just presenting a block device so [TS]

00:26:51   that didn't seem to square at all with [TS]

00:26:55   something that moves files and [TS]

00:26:56   applications around and it certainly [TS]

00:26:59   didn't square with the idea that as of [TS]

00:27:00   lying you could make a volume at of two [TS]

00:27:03   other things and put stuff on it but [TS]

00:27:06   Korra storage does the thing where I [TS]

00:27:07   move stuff from one to the other like it [TS]

00:27:09   reshuffle stuff based on usage in like [TS]

00:27:10   well surely course storage doesn't do [TS]

00:27:13   that like why would it be moving stuff [TS]

00:27:14   back and forth but the thing is as of [TS]

00:27:17   lime when I was playing with this it [TS]

00:27:19   there's a couple possibilities one is [TS]

00:27:21   that back then all core storage did was [TS]

00:27:23   you know join two physical disks [TS]

00:27:25   together into a single volume and put [TS]

00:27:28   some you know some data and one some [TS]

00:27:30   date on the other but it didn't like [TS]

00:27:31   move stuff around based on usage that's [TS]

00:27:33   one possibility the other possibility is [TS]

00:27:35   that it did move stuff based around [TS]

00:27:36   based on your usage and I just never [TS]

00:27:38   noticed because who would have think [TS]

00:27:39   thought to look for that because like a [TS]

00:27:41   logical volume manager like that wasn't [TS]

00:27:42   a selling point it wasn't in the man [TS]

00:27:44   page four different ill course storage [TS]

00:27:46   like maybe it was moving stuff and we [TS]

00:27:48   didn't even know right uh so in this [TS]

00:27:52   experiment that the Patrick did is he [TS]

00:27:54   did that he's got the little command [TS]

00:27:56   lines up here but if you do man disk you [TS]

00:27:57   till you can look at the core storage [TS]

00:27:58   section now disk utility s create you [TS]

00:28:01   know a logical volume group and he makes [TS]

00:28:03   it out of two disks an SSD in a spinning [TS]

00:28:05   disk and then he creates a volume on [TS]

00:28:07   that new you know he's now created what [TS]

00:28:09   looks like a single disk but has really [TS]

00:28:11   made up of two physicalist and he [TS]

00:28:12   creates a volume on and they just says [TS]

00:28:14   make a volume make a journaled hfs+ make [TS]

00:28:17   it 500 gigs and this is okay fine now [TS]

00:28:20   you've got a volume and underneath it [TS]

00:28:22   are two physical things now the next [TS]

00:28:24   things he did was he's trying to [TS]

00:28:25   determine okay is this what fusion disk [TS]

00:28:27   is so he's using DD and observation of [TS]

00:28:31   data transfer speeds to say okay I'm [TS]

00:28:32   going to write enough data where I know [TS]

00:28:33   this couldn't possibly all fit on the [TS]

00:28:35   SSD so he write some more you know more [TS]

00:28:36   than enough data and it's now it should [TS]

00:28:38   be spilling over into the hard drive and [TS]

00:28:39   he does a series of experiments with [TS]

00:28:41   reads and writes of files [TS]

00:28:43   and if he gets like you know 200 [TS]

00:28:46   megabytes a second it reads he's like oh [TS]

00:28:47   that's coming from the SSD but if he [TS]

00:28:48   gets a lower read rate he's like oh [TS]

00:28:50   that's coming from the hard drive [TS]

00:28:50   because they really are vastly different [TS]

00:28:52   rates and he has tried to experimentally [TS]

00:28:55   prove to himself by eliminating things [TS]

00:28:57   like disk caching and stuff like that [TS]

00:28:58   but unmounting the drive to clear the [TS]

00:29:00   disk cache that something you know he's [TS]

00:29:03   determined okay these files are on the [TS]

00:29:04   SSD and these files are on on the [TS]

00:29:06   spinning disk and then he would see [TS]

00:29:08   after he stopped doing his activity the [TS]

00:29:10   disk activity would still be going on [TS]

00:29:12   behind the scenes because like Quora [TS]

00:29:13   storage and his estimation was moving [TS]

00:29:15   stuff and then he would do in a [TS]

00:29:16   subsequent tests and say oh now that's [TS]

00:29:17   not that I was accessing that was slow [TS]

00:29:19   before you know something behind the [TS]

00:29:21   scenes has put that onto the SSD [TS]

00:29:23   physical volume and now when I read from [TS]

00:29:25   those exact same things it's fast ah so [TS]

00:29:28   he's sort of experimentally determining [TS]

00:29:30   that plain old core storage that you [TS]

00:29:33   just make a logical volume out of two [TS]

00:29:35   physical volumes it's moving stuff [TS]

00:29:37   around based on your activity so that [TS]

00:29:41   that was an important point to saying [TS]

00:29:43   that this is what this is what fusion [TS]

00:29:45   drive is uh the next bit was like the [TS]

00:29:48   question of okay well you know is it [TS]

00:29:50   block based or file based because again [TS]

00:29:52   all the descriptions you know that the [TS]

00:29:53   marketing descriptions are like all [TS]

00:29:55   about files and applications but core [TS]

00:29:57   storage you know logical volume [TS]

00:29:58   management is working with you know [TS]

00:30:00   blocks that did don't have that aren't [TS]

00:30:03   the same thing they don't respect file [TS]

00:30:04   and they're independent of file [TS]

00:30:05   boundaries right because you're putting [TS]

00:30:06   a file system on top of this block [TS]

00:30:08   storage this virtual block storage [TS]

00:30:09   device right so then he was trying to [TS]

00:30:12   say okay I won't read or write entire [TS]

00:30:14   files I'll read and write just like the [TS]

00:30:16   first megabyte of a big file and he saw [TS]

00:30:18   the like just reading writing that first [TS]

00:30:20   megabyte would cause just that first [TS]

00:30:21   megabyte to go on to the SSD like you [TS]

00:30:24   know course towards remove them over [TS]

00:30:25   there so their support for the idea that [TS]

00:30:27   this arrangement of volumes and course [TS]

00:30:29   storage moves data and doesn't move [TS]

00:30:31   entire files it just moves blocks which [TS]

00:30:33   makes perfect sense in terms of the wake [TS]

00:30:34   or storage works and the final thing [TS]

00:30:36   they tribe was like okay can I make this [TS]

00:30:38   logical volume group out of to a logical [TS]

00:30:42   volume out of two physical volumes and [TS]

00:30:44   formatted as something other than H of S [TS]

00:30:46   Plus so he formatted a ZFS like he's got [TS]

00:30:51   this logic volume looks like just an [TS]

00:30:52   unusual eyes hard disk is really made up [TS]

00:30:54   of two hardest behind the scenes and he [TS]

00:30:56   you know dizzy pool [TS]

00:30:57   create blah blah and he's got ZFS on top [TS]

00:30:59   of it which again makes sense if it's [TS]

00:31:02   has nothing to do with files what it [TS]

00:31:04   shouldn't care what file system on top [TS]

00:31:05   it was just was just working with blocks [TS]

00:31:07   and again he did his tests and saw that [TS]

00:31:10   after he stopped messing with the file [TS]

00:31:12   system I owed activity continued he said [TS]

00:31:15   it always kept going for like 10 minutes [TS]

00:31:16   were copy stuff and he didn't know if 10 [TS]

00:31:18   minutes was like a fixed limit I think [TS]

00:31:19   it's just because that's how long it [TS]

00:31:21   took to move the amount of data he had [TS]

00:31:23   fiddled with and then he did a read [TS]

00:31:26   after that and like all of a sudden the [TS]

00:31:28   data he'd been reading before is now [TS]

00:31:29   coming back much faster because him it's [TS]

00:31:31   been moved to the SSD so he's using this [TS]

00:31:33   as evidence that core storage is you [TS]

00:31:38   know works at the block level just like [TS]

00:31:39   full disk encryption uh and has nothing [TS]

00:31:42   to do with the file system its file [TS]

00:31:43   system diagnostic and that what he was [TS]

00:31:47   doing in his experiment here again he's [TS]

00:31:49   doing this not unlike a fancy new iMac [TS]

00:31:51   and not on one of the new mac man he's [TS]

00:31:52   just on a random mac that happens to be [TS]

00:31:54   running 10 8 2 i'm assuming right that [TS]

00:31:56   this is what core storage is and [TS]

00:31:59   everyone else who passed these stories [TS]

00:32:01   around assumed as well as I hey cor [TS]

00:32:02   storage on your Mac you can do coerced [TS]

00:32:04   or not core storage fusion drive on your [TS]

00:32:05   Mac you can do fusion drive on any Mac [TS]

00:32:07   you'll be fine you can put external [TS]

00:32:09   drives until you can do anything you [TS]

00:32:10   want the underlying assumption that this [TS]

00:32:13   is how fusion drive works well in late [TS]

00:32:15   breaking news which Mark who could not [TS]

00:32:17   possibly have had what do you think of [TS]

00:32:19   that Lee hutchinson of ours who's [TS]

00:32:21   written a couple of articles in fusion [TS]

00:32:23   drive and who has one of the new mac [TS]

00:32:25   minis with the fusion drive option [TS]

00:32:27   moments before the show began pulled out [TS]

00:32:30   his mac mini with Fusion Drive and ran a [TS]

00:32:32   couple of commands for me and got the [TS]

00:32:35   output of it so when he just runs disk [TS]

00:32:37   you to list what it shows is dev disk 0 [TS]

00:32:40   disk 1 and just to disk 0 has a whole [TS]

00:32:43   bunch of different sections that's got [TS]

00:32:44   the g yd partitioner map efi and then [TS]

00:32:47   it's got apple core storage and apple [TS]

00:32:49   boot OS 10 disc 1 is 1 terabyte volume [TS]

00:32:54   it's got the g yd partition thing efi [TS]

00:32:56   core storage and the recovery hard drive [TS]

00:32:59   and dev disc 2 is the macintosh HD and [TS]

00:33:03   it is a 1 point 1 terabyte disk and that [TS]

00:33:05   one point 1 terabyte disk you can [TS]

00:33:08   surmise by knowing the amount of [TS]

00:33:09   physical storage that's installed [TS]

00:33:11   here there's only a one terabyte [TS]

00:33:12   spinning disk and a 128 gig SSD so how [TS]

00:33:16   could there ever be a volume that's 1.1 [TS]

00:33:18   terabytes well that's your fusion drive [TS]

00:33:19   dev just two is the fusion drive made up [TS]

00:33:21   with loathing so you see you know it's [TS]

00:33:23   still got the recovery a hard disk [TS]

00:33:25   partition I'm assuming that's carved out [TS]

00:33:27   of the spinning disk and it's got the [TS]

00:33:29   little you know boot OS 10 partition [TS]

00:33:32   thing for going in recovery mode when he [TS]

00:33:35   does info on disk 0 which was the the [TS]

00:33:39   one that just has the Apple boot thing [TS]

00:33:40   it says no file system on it at all is [TS]

00:33:43   that it's an apple the device is the [TS]

00:33:45   Apple SSD it's got a new volume name and [TS]

00:33:48   no file system on it all when it doesn't [TS]

00:33:51   on disk one which was the one terabyte [TS]

00:33:53   spinning disk thing you know this is [TS]

00:33:56   apple HD blah blah blah no file system [TS]

00:33:59   on it at all not mounted when he runs it [TS]

00:34:02   on just to dev just to says though this [TS]

00:34:05   is Mac another HD it's jerald hfs+ [TS]

00:34:07   volume and it's you know at one point [TS]

00:34:09   one terabytes in size this is the [TS]

00:34:11   logical volume that's been created out [TS]

00:34:14   of those two physical things so to [TS]

00:34:15   answer the question we had last week of [TS]

00:34:17   what would happen if you pulled out the [TS]

00:34:19   SSD or pulled out the other thing and we [TS]

00:34:20   just put one of the things in the output [TS]

00:34:23   of disk you till here on this actual [TS]

00:34:24   fusion drive Mack says those things [TS]

00:34:26   which show up is having no file system [TS]

00:34:27   whatsoever like you would say this disks [TS]

00:34:29   uninitialized do you want me I'm [TS]

00:34:30   assuming it would say that because it [TS]

00:34:31   doesn't even have a file system on it as [TS]

00:34:32   far as the computer is concerned it just [TS]

00:34:35   looks like you know random garbage only [TS]

00:34:38   Deb disc 2 which is the logical I'm [TS]

00:34:41   shows up as an actual volume with the [TS]

00:34:43   size that couldn't possibly exist on any [TS]

00:34:45   single disc with that's you know that's [TS]

00:34:46   what we thought so when he does discute [TS]

00:34:47   LCS lists and lists the output of the [TS]

00:34:50   core storage out but shows one logical [TS]

00:34:52   volume group with two physical volumes [TS]

00:34:54   got the you know the SSD on the physical [TS]

00:34:56   disk one logical volume family and out [TS]

00:34:59   of that has made one logical volume [TS]

00:35:00   called Macintosh HD that's you know that [TS]

00:35:03   ends up being disk too ah and this [TS]

00:35:05   exactly matches the output of the stuff [TS]

00:35:09   that Oh Patrick Stein was doing he is [TS]

00:35:14   his output of his logical volume groups [TS]

00:35:17   in the physical volume stuff like that [TS]

00:35:18   it looks like this so this is pretty [TS]

00:35:20   conclusive evidence that what Patrick [TS]

00:35:21   was doing is what fusion drive is and [TS]

00:35:23   that [TS]

00:35:25   you know unless I mean the only thing we [TS]

00:35:27   don't know is how did Apple create this [TS]

00:35:30   core storage volume is there some new [TS]

00:35:31   special flag that they added to say i'll [TS]

00:35:34   make this fusion drive thing it seems [TS]

00:35:35   like there probably isn't because [TS]

00:35:36   Patrick didn't use any special flag that [TS]

00:35:38   says you know join these two discs into [TS]

00:35:40   a single logical volume oh and by the [TS]

00:35:42   way do that thing where you watch how [TS]

00:35:43   much I use them in shuffle data around [TS]

00:35:45   like it seems like that happens no [TS]

00:35:46   matter what so this is some finally some [TS]

00:35:51   actual concrete technical information [TS]

00:35:54   about how this stuff works I would [TS]

00:35:56   discourage people from immediately [TS]

00:35:59   following it firing up the terminal and [TS]

00:36:00   running man to scoop tail and figure out [TS]

00:36:02   how to do this themselves unless you're [TS]

00:36:03   doing on like a scratch Mac with disks [TS]

00:36:05   you don't care about because it is very [TS]

00:36:07   easy to accidentally hose yourself when [TS]

00:36:09   using tools like this none of this is [TS]

00:36:12   being done by the GUI this is all [TS]

00:36:13   command line stuff you have to know you [TS]

00:36:16   know device numbers and it's very easy [TS]

00:36:18   to get confused about what Deb disk 0 [TS]

00:36:19   and disk 1 are and stuff like that and [TS]

00:36:21   just end up hosing yourself so i would [TS]

00:36:23   not recommend that you run out and do [TS]

00:36:24   this the one question that i had for lee [TS]

00:36:26   that he wasn't able to check it before [TS]

00:36:28   the show was if you use these [TS]

00:36:31   command-line utility a Drake did and [TS]

00:36:33   make yourself your own fusion drive add [TS]

00:36:36   a couple of specialist two questions one [TS]

00:36:39   is can you make a few here I've out of [TS]

00:36:41   like seven discs and I see no reason why [TS]

00:36:42   you couldn't because the whole point of [TS]

00:36:44   course storage is you could just add [TS]

00:36:45   physical volumes on there it doesn't [TS]

00:36:46   just have to be to right and the second [TS]

00:36:49   question is say you make your own little [TS]

00:36:50   fusion drive can you boot from is there [TS]

00:36:53   anything special you have to do to boot [TS]

00:36:55   from it so say I had my mac pro here and [TS]

00:36:57   I took two hard drives to let's say to [TS]

00:36:59   external hard drives and I joined them [TS]

00:37:01   into a fusion drive and I installed OS [TS]

00:37:03   10 on it can I boot from basically boot [TS]

00:37:06   from to external hard drives and same [TS]

00:37:08   question for internal what if i use to [TS]

00:37:09   internal drives in a game though can i [TS]

00:37:11   boot from that obviously the mac mini [TS]

00:37:13   can boot from it but there may be some [TS]

00:37:15   weird procedure be like we're really [TS]

00:37:16   it's booting off like the recovery [TS]

00:37:18   partition and the curry partition is [TS]

00:37:19   looking at nvram or some other setting [TS]

00:37:21   and seeing okay well I'm really supposed [TS]

00:37:23   to boot from this other one and it [TS]

00:37:24   switches over like what is the bootstrap [TS]

00:37:26   procedure when all the attached disks [TS]

00:37:28   appear to have no file systems on them [TS]

00:37:30   like it's all it's all happening in [TS]

00:37:32   software so that's still an unanswered [TS]

00:37:34   question but I think that's the surprise [TS]

00:37:36   this week is that you know good old core [TS]

00:37:38   storage [TS]

00:37:38   they're all along or at least as of ten [TS]

00:37:41   82 is doing this magical file moving [TS]

00:37:43   stuff and nobody knew it and so you know [TS]

00:37:46   before those imacs were announced you [TS]

00:37:48   could have in theory made your own [TS]

00:37:50   fusion drive and got these interesting [TS]

00:37:52   performance characteristics out of it [TS]

00:37:53   before I believe in announce this may be [TS]

00:37:55   the first time that Apple is shipping [TS]

00:37:57   something as a headlining feature in a [TS]

00:37:59   keynote it was really on all of our [TS]

00:38:01   discs oh no while we're watching it [TS]

00:38:03   creepy huh yeah i'm i'm not about to go [TS]

00:38:09   and try to experiment this myself [TS]

00:38:10   because I do have four internal hard [TS]

00:38:12   drives and one external on this thing [TS]

00:38:13   and then a couple of spare mechanisms [TS]

00:38:15   hanging around as well with no ways to [TS]

00:38:17   put them ah but they're all filled with [TS]

00:38:19   stuff so I don't really have time to [TS]

00:38:20   play so I would still recommend for [TS]

00:38:23   everyone who doesn't have a spare [TS]

00:38:25   machine spare drives to mess around with [TS]

00:38:26   only use Fusion Drive in its supported [TS]

00:38:29   configuration on the machines that say [TS]

00:38:30   they supported in the ways that are [TS]

00:38:32   supported Haitian your nerd you want to [TS]

00:38:34   you want to play around then i would say [TS]

00:38:36   fire up the terminal and type man space [TS]

00:38:37   disk you till all onward and scroll [TS]

00:38:41   until you see the section about course [TS]

00:38:42   storage and go to town and good luck [TS]

00:38:44   good night and good luck yes skj Haley [TS]

00:38:49   says in Shiro what could possibly go [TS]

00:38:51   wrong Yeah right what me worry you know [TS]

00:38:54   look possibly go wrong as you will wipe [TS]

00:38:56   your entire disk oops yeah be careful [TS]

00:39:00   guys that will never happen alright get [TS]

00:39:04   another sponsor I have two more I will [TS]

00:39:06   do lynda.com now they are an online [TS]

00:39:08   learning company with more than 77,000 [TS]

00:39:11   video tutorials they teach you things [TS]

00:39:13   like how to program they teach you [TS]

00:39:17   things like how to design they teach [TS]

00:39:19   tons and tons of things that you thought [TS]

00:39:22   maybe weren't teachable but they are [TS]

00:39:25   teachable web design programming [TS]

00:39:27   photography business audio video 3d [TS]

00:39:30   animation you name it they're adding new [TS]

00:39:31   courses every week the training like a [TS]

00:39:34   library and like Gary keeps pace with [TS]

00:39:37   today's fast-changing technical and [TS]

00:39:38   software skills you name it they've got [TS]

00:39:40   a course on it i love screencasting I've [TS]

00:39:42   done screencasting and I've learned a [TS]

00:39:44   lot from screencasting they have a [TS]

00:39:47   membership this is how it works you pay [TS]

00:39:49   25 bucks per month you get unlimited 24 [TS]

00:39:51   by 7 access [TS]

00:39:52   to all of their video courses and these [TS]

00:39:54   things are taught by expert instructors [TS]

00:39:56   they're taught by people who know what [TS]

00:39:57   they're doing real world experts come [TS]

00:39:59   and they bust out of course go to [TS]

00:40:02   linda.com and spelled ly NDA Linda calm [TS]

00:40:06   / 5 by 5 you get a free 7 day trial [TS]

00:40:09   where you get access to tons and tons [TS]

00:40:11   and tons of stuff and you support the [TS]

00:40:13   show Linda calm / 5 by 5 it's a great [TS]

00:40:15   way to learn and they do really really [TS]

00:40:16   great work go check him out Linda that's [TS]

00:40:23   it that's all spot yeah I had some other [TS]

00:40:25   technical details Fusion Drive that was [TS]

00:40:28   in my head and now it it has departed me [TS]

00:40:30   oh yeah I guess there's despite all this [TS]

00:40:33   evidence a lot of it still seems [TS]

00:40:34   circumstantial to me in particular like [TS]

00:40:38   this this sort of trying to observe [TS]

00:40:39   course storage moving data from one [TS]

00:40:42   place to the other and experimentally [TS]

00:40:44   determining it by looking at the [TS]

00:40:46   transfer rates and the fact that [TS]

00:40:48   activity is going on with the mechanisms [TS]

00:40:50   even when you're not doing any like [TS]

00:40:52   that's ninety-nine point nine percent [TS]

00:40:53   sure but I would still really love a [TS]

00:40:55   real technical document or something [TS]

00:40:57   like straight from Apple's mouth like [TS]

00:40:58   this is how it works this is what [TS]

00:41:00   happens this is the underlying you know [TS]

00:41:02   implementation details of it instead of [TS]

00:41:04   having us to do all this guesswork stuff [TS]

00:41:05   I would still prefer that so but it [TS]

00:41:08   seems to me that all this is on the [TS]

00:41:09   right track and this is how it's done [TS]

00:41:11   and this much much less confusing now I [TS]

00:41:13   less confusing than their explanation [TS]

00:41:15   now now that it's like you know so its [TS]

00:41:17   core storage but you keep talking about [TS]

00:41:19   files and apps makes no sense now makes [TS]

00:41:21   so much more sense and and in hindsight [TS]

00:41:23   it makes sense that Apple said it is [TS]

00:41:25   Apple's not going to talk about managing [TS]

00:41:27   blocks of storage they're going to say [TS]

00:41:29   files and applications because that's [TS]

00:41:30   what people care about it they don't [TS]

00:41:31   really care that it could be that only [TS]

00:41:33   the first megabyte of that application [TS]

00:41:34   is on the SSD because only the first [TS]

00:41:36   megabyte of it is the thing that ever [TS]

00:41:37   gets rich or something like that yeah so [TS]

00:41:39   does it say in the chat room yes wdc you [TS]

00:41:41   next year presumably they'll talk about [TS]

00:41:42   this if only to brag because really it [TS]

00:41:44   probably has very few practical and blue [TS]

00:41:46   implications for people writing software [TS]

00:41:49   for OS 10 but they do tend to like you [TS]

00:41:52   know look at this cool thing that we did [TS]

00:41:54   everybody and they'll talk about it [TS]

00:41:55   there maybe there's like one or two new [TS]

00:41:56   API is about how to handle Fusion Drive [TS]

00:41:58   things and I use an excuse to have 17 [TS]

00:42:00   slides about the implementation of [TS]

00:42:02   fusion drive [TS]

00:42:03   I will enjoy that at least least I hope [TS]

00:42:05   they do all right so my main topic for [TS]

00:42:08   today oh is 41 minutes in can you guess [TS]

00:42:13   George Lucas and the now we already did [TS]

00:42:17   that ipad mini I would have interrogated [TS]

00:42:22   you about drive that many if you had one [TS]

00:42:23   but you don't it's still on the vehicle [TS]

00:42:26   for delivery you failed me for the last [TS]

00:42:28   time I'm pollen job but no today I'm [TS]

00:42:32   gonna talk about the Apple executive [TS]

00:42:35   reshuffle forestall is out yes i have is [TS]

00:42:41   ian sure been the title of their press [TS]

00:42:44   release yes so the actual title of their [TS]

00:42:46   press release was apple announces [TS]

00:42:49   changes to increase collaboration across [TS]

00:42:51   hardware software and services and they [TS]

00:42:54   do this weird thing where there's an [TS]

00:42:56   ampersand between software and services [TS]

00:42:57   so i'm assuming software ampersand [TS]

00:42:59   services is a single thing that is a [TS]

00:43:01   unit yeah anyway uh just kind of [TS]

00:43:06   euphemistic business doublespeak because [TS]

00:43:08   you know whenever a company announces [TS]

00:43:12   something that happened to them that [TS]

00:43:14   they didn't really plan for or that's [TS]

00:43:16   like could be interpreted as bad news [TS]

00:43:18   they are not direct with the the [TS]

00:43:21   headline yeah I mean yeah like they took [TS]

00:43:24   it's not like they trying to hide it but [TS]

00:43:25   their spin doctoring it as you would say [TS]

00:43:28   yeah at least in the title like they're [TS]

00:43:30   not gonna say we've just fired a really [TS]

00:43:32   important executive who's done you know [TS]

00:43:34   like that that's that's the headline the [TS]

00:43:35   wheel get from like you said forestall [TS]

00:43:37   out that could have been the two word [TS]

00:43:39   title of this thing and in fact was the [TS]

00:43:40   the the URL of Gruber space with a [TS]

00:43:43   reference and a little bit for stall out [TS]

00:43:45   like that is the headline piece of [TS]

00:43:46   amanda berry they bury the headline [TS]

00:43:48   under we're going to increase [TS]

00:43:49   collaboration and people are going to [TS]

00:43:50   take the responsibilities and by the way [TS]

00:43:51   we fired this dude right and this is a [TS]

00:43:54   buried that in there right so I think [TS]

00:43:57   was like in the first paragraph but but [TS]

00:43:59   it was like apple also announced like in [TS]

00:44:02   addition to what we just told you about [TS]

00:44:03   these people get new responsibilities [TS]

00:44:04   apple also announced the Scott fallstowe [TS]

00:44:06   will be leaving next year and will serve [TS]

00:44:08   as adviser to CEO Tim Cook's nicely they [TS]

00:44:10   could do it in november so they can say [TS]

00:44:11   next year so it seems like i'll be [TS]

00:44:12   leaving but all the notes that's a month [TS]

00:44:14   right you know hilton [TS]

00:44:16   leaving next year I guess he could leave [TS]

00:44:17   anytime next year but it seems to me [TS]

00:44:19   people keep saying oh well Scott far so [TS]

00:44:21   we'll be there for another year now no [TS]

00:44:22   talking there talk in January one or the [TS]

00:44:26   stroke of midnight on January fun right [TS]

00:44:28   and and that's the interesting like when [TS]

00:44:31   you reach a certain pay grade when [TS]

00:44:33   you're working for the man or what is [TS]

00:44:34   here what is your expression corporate [TS]

00:44:36   decision that's you you're the you're a [TS]

00:44:38   corporate stooge I am my total am uh but [TS]

00:44:41   when you reach a certain level in [TS]

00:44:43   American corporations they'll they bend [TS]

00:44:48   over backwards to preserve the or that [TS]

00:44:51   you are an important good person who [TS]

00:44:53   should not be publicly insulted or [TS]

00:44:55   whatever right so if you're just like a [TS]

00:44:57   regular rank-and-file employee uh they [TS]

00:45:02   lay you off because the factory's [TS]

00:45:03   closing or something and you just get [TS]

00:45:05   laid off and all the stories about your [TS]

00:45:06   like these people got laid off if you [TS]

00:45:08   are a rank-and-file employee and you get [TS]

00:45:09   fired because people don't like you or [TS]

00:45:12   like fired with cause or something like [TS]

00:45:13   that you got fine you got yeah you got [TS]

00:45:16   fired like there's never any press [TS]

00:45:17   releases associated but there was that [TS]

00:45:18   if someone calls and say what happened [TS]

00:45:20   to blah blah blah like something you [TS]

00:45:21   could try to apply for next job and [TS]

00:45:22   someone calls up your old company so [TS]

00:45:23   yeah we fired him because you know uh he [TS]

00:45:26   was sexually harassing people or he was [TS]

00:45:27   always he stole out of the register oh [TS]

00:45:29   yeah he's still out of the register or [TS]

00:45:31   he never showed up on time or like they [TS]

00:45:33   say that they fired you but if once you [TS]

00:45:35   pass some certain threshold nobody will [TS]

00:45:38   ever say that they fired you even [TS]

00:45:39   they'll have a press release about and [TS]

00:45:41   they won't say we're firing Scott [TS]

00:45:42   Forstall they'll just never say it like [TS]

00:45:44   you know but everybody knows because if [TS]

00:45:47   you were leaving on good terms the press [TS]

00:45:49   release looks very different like we're [TS]

00:45:51   very sad to see like the Burt Ron so [TS]

00:45:52   late when he left he's done such great [TS]

00:45:54   things for us and we're sad to see him [TS]

00:45:55   go and he's leaving and it's totally [TS]

00:45:57   clear that he's he's leaving of his own [TS]

00:45:59   accord he's not being fired and there's [TS]

00:46:01   a middle ground more like you're kind of [TS]

00:46:03   being forced out or encouraged to retire [TS]

00:46:06   whatever but this one reads like this is [TS]

00:46:10   what happened this is what a firing [TS]

00:46:11   looks like here when you're when you're [TS]

00:46:13   a multimillionaire Ryan you're a [TS]

00:46:14   multi-millionaire this is how you get [TS]

00:46:15   fired they never say you're fired like [TS]

00:46:17   cuz they just don't want to don't want [TS]

00:46:19   to hurt your feelings I'm and I think [TS]

00:46:21   that's not necessarily a bad thing it's [TS]

00:46:22   not like I'm saying he should say he was [TS]

00:46:24   fired just like they do for the peons I [TS]

00:46:26   think if anything the river should be [TS]

00:46:28   true that [TS]

00:46:29   peons should get the same kind of [TS]

00:46:30   respect and kind of like you know you [TS]

00:46:33   don't have to be so rude about it just [TS]

00:46:35   because they're an underling and are [TS]

00:46:37   multi-millionaires and aren't powerful [TS]

00:46:38   everyone should get this kind of [TS]

00:46:39   treatment that's I'm not I don't think [TS]

00:46:41   it's unfair that it's got forestalls [TS]

00:46:43   firing is spoken about euphemistically [TS]

00:46:45   think they should they should do this to [TS]

00:46:47   everybody unless of course you did [TS]

00:46:48   something horrible like set fire to the [TS]

00:46:49   building or you know whatever then they [TS]

00:46:50   can be more honest but I you know from [TS]

00:46:54   this announcement it appears that Scott [TS]

00:46:56   Forstall was fired like he did not [TS]

00:46:59   willingly go and the changes are Johnny [TS]

00:47:02   I will provide leadership in the [TS]

00:47:03   direction and direction for human [TS]

00:47:05   interface across the company in addition [TS]

00:47:07   to his role as leader industrial design [TS]

00:47:09   Eddy Cue is taking over Syrian maps in [TS]

00:47:11   addition to all the other stuff that he [TS]

00:47:12   does like iTunes map store and I [TS]

00:47:14   bookstore and iCloud federighi who was [TS]

00:47:17   in chart Craig federighi was in charge [TS]

00:47:19   of OS 10 is now also in charge of iOS [TS]

00:47:21   which was forced all sold job at Bob [TS]

00:47:25   Mansfield who had previously retired but [TS]

00:47:27   then came back is now going to be in [TS]

00:47:28   charge of the heat coming out before all [TS]

00:47:31   of this right yes he left before and he [TS]

00:47:34   came back before it but now he is being [TS]

00:47:36   assigned this new responsibility for the [TS]

00:47:37   technology group how much before had he [TS]

00:47:40   come back do you recall was it a couple [TS]

00:47:41   months or what I have a timeline later [TS]

00:47:44   in the night I apologize so we will get [TS]

00:47:46   to it yes I know you can't see my nuts [TS]

00:47:47   uh yeah and and additionally I think [TS]

00:47:52   this is I think this is in the order it [TS]

00:47:53   wasn't in the end of thing additionally [TS]

00:47:54   oh and by the way before we get out of [TS]

00:47:56   this spreadsheet John Brown is out is [TS]

00:47:59   leaving Apple that's what they say again [TS]

00:48:01   fired right he he's not leaving apple of [TS]

00:48:05   his own accord he didn't retire he [TS]

00:48:07   hasn't you know oh it's been a great run [TS]

00:48:09   here for the past seven years at Apple [TS]

00:48:12   but now I'm ready to try new things now [TS]

00:48:13   he was there for like six months now [TS]

00:48:14   he's out and a search for a new head of [TS]

00:48:16   retails underway he was the guy who [TS]

00:48:17   replaced Ron Johnson is the guy [TS]

00:48:19   responsible for the Apple stores and now [TS]

00:48:21   they're looking for new replacement [TS]

00:48:22   alright so that's the summary of the [TS]

00:48:25   news and now I want to dive into it in [TS]

00:48:28   more detail where we'll get to all those [TS]

00:48:30   dates and names and stuff like that ah [TS]

00:48:32   but as we said before the gist of this [TS]

00:48:36   like on the web you know where they cut [TS]

00:48:38   through all the BS and say there's a big [TS]

00:48:39   press release a bunch of things happen [TS]

00:48:41   in this press release but the [TS]

00:48:43   headline the lead of this story is [TS]

00:48:44   forced all-out forestalls gone right and [TS]

00:48:47   and he's been fired and we all see that [TS]

00:48:49   that's you know that's clearly what [TS]

00:48:51   happened and all the stories have been [TS]

00:48:54   about what happened that this guy who's [TS]

00:48:57   been with Apple for so long and been in [TS]

00:48:59   charge of such important things how did [TS]

00:49:01   he get fire what did he do what was the [TS]

00:49:03   cause for firing naps and you know and [TS]

00:49:07   yes they're not if the nut if they're [TS]

00:49:09   not even gonna say he was fired they're [TS]

00:49:11   not gonna list in the press release what [TS]

00:49:13   he did if John for still goes to get [TS]

00:49:15   another job somewhere that that person [TS]

00:49:17   won't be able to call apple and say why [TS]

00:49:18   should you guys fire him was you know [TS]

00:49:20   can you tell they're never gonna say [TS]

00:49:21   that certainly not gonna say it in the [TS]

00:49:23   press release but all the stories have [TS]

00:49:25   been about that and we've all read the [TS]

00:49:26   stories maps you brought that up uh Siri [TS]

00:49:29   skeuomorphic design yeah uh and and but [TS]

00:49:33   the big one I see us at the undercurrent [TS]

00:49:35   of everything is like personality stuff [TS]

00:49:38   of like he was mean he didn't get along [TS]

00:49:40   with people he took credit for things [TS]

00:49:43   that you know that there weren't his [TS]

00:49:45   like all sorts of interpersonal stuff [TS]

00:49:47   about how you know like personality [TS]

00:49:52   issues not some like in other words the [TS]

00:49:55   ID since that Kurt runs underneath [TS]

00:49:57   everything it's like well yeah he had [TS]

00:49:59   problems with all these things and there [TS]

00:50:01   have been some issues with with products [TS]

00:50:02   but you know the real reason is cuz like [TS]

00:50:04   there was some sort of personality [TS]

00:50:05   conflict and people didn't like him or [TS]

00:50:07   whatever um and what I have to say about [TS]

00:50:10   all all that the entire idea is that [TS]

00:50:12   there's it's you can't talk about [TS]

00:50:18   Forrestal leaving Apple with any actual [TS]

00:50:21   knowledge or authority because basically [TS]

00:50:27   nobody actually knows what happened I [TS]

00:50:29   know all these stores in New York Times [TS]

00:50:31   and Wall Street Journal have like [TS]

00:50:32   sources close to or app people involved [TS]

00:50:34   there up employees and stuff like that [TS]

00:50:35   uh but i think it's and then like all [TS]

00:50:41   these articles will say we talked to [TS]

00:50:42   sources close to her and they said that [TS]

00:50:43   this person couldn't be in the same room [TS]

00:50:45   with that person and they had sort of [TS]

00:50:46   personality conflicts and blah blah and [TS]

00:50:47   then the rest of the article proceeds as [TS]

00:50:49   if the you know they make these [TS]

00:50:51   confident assertions well we have a [TS]

00:50:53   source or two sources and they say this [TS]

00:50:54   and therefore and then the whole rest [TS]

00:50:56   the article uses those assertions as [TS]

00:50:57   premises given this information that [TS]

00:50:59   we've already told you from these [TS]

00:51:01   sources which you will now serve as a [TS]

00:51:02   hundred percent true now let's discuss [TS]

00:51:04   what that means right and I don't think [TS]

00:51:06   that's a useful way to reason about this [TS]

00:51:10   because I don't think you could have any [TS]

00:51:12   confidence in in the assertions of your [TS]

00:51:15   sources about why he was fired as well [TS]

00:51:19   Shipley was saying on Twitter the other [TS]

00:51:21   day uh he he was fired from you know [TS]

00:51:24   forced out of or whatever because he was [TS]

00:51:25   he was at that level where you don't [TS]

00:51:26   stay fired but he himself said fire from [TS]

00:51:29   Omni group the famous next and then Mac [TS]

00:51:32   os10 software group that he co-founded [TS]

00:51:35   uh and he said I don't know why I was [TS]

00:51:39   fired found a group all he knows is his [TS]

00:51:41   side of the story even if you were to [TS]

00:51:42   ask scott forstall why do you think you [TS]

00:51:43   were fired you're still not gonna get [TS]

00:51:45   the whole story there because no single [TS]

00:51:47   person probably it's certainly no single [TS]

00:51:48   person who's not like tim cook or scott [TS]

00:51:51   first well maybe you got both of them [TS]

00:51:52   combined you could figure it out uh but [TS]

00:51:55   like as they say history is written by [TS]

00:51:57   the winners and that's definitely true [TS]

00:51:59   when it comes to corporate press [TS]

00:52:00   releases and corporate politics uh you [TS]

00:52:04   know it when you see stories leaked [TS]

00:52:06   intentionally leaked or not about oh he [TS]

00:52:09   had personality conflicts or whatever [TS]

00:52:10   those are the people who want and it's [TS]

00:52:12   got Forrestal to be gone and they're [TS]

00:52:13   gonna sell their side of the story is [TS]

00:52:15   not necessarily the objective truth of [TS]

00:52:17   course they're gonna say bad things [TS]

00:52:20   about him because they wanted him to go [TS]

00:52:21   but who's to say they're right in that [TS]

00:52:23   conflict we don't have any visibility [TS]

00:52:24   into the internal stupid personal [TS]

00:52:27   political situation inside Apple and you [TS]

00:52:29   just can't go by the things you hear [TS]

00:52:32   from people inside Apple because most [TS]

00:52:34   likely you are hearing from the people [TS]

00:52:35   who wanted him to go he doesn't get a [TS]

00:52:38   fair shot in that he he doesn't have any [TS]

00:52:40   say in the corporate communication about [TS]

00:52:41   it he doesn't get to influence who's [TS]

00:52:43   going to be in all these stories so I [TS]

00:52:44   think it's completely unfair to Scott [TS]

00:52:46   Forstall to assume that all those [TS]

00:52:49   stories about his personality are are [TS]

00:52:51   true and in any way really like because [TS]

00:52:54   it's just it's a complete and balanced [TS]

00:52:57   and a complete communication failure and [TS]

00:52:59   again i would say who got forced forced [TS]

00:53:00   all in person to be on this show and [TS]

00:53:02   interview him his side of it isn't [TS]

00:53:03   necessarily true it's somewhere in the [TS]

00:53:05   middle there right so I'm not interested [TS]

00:53:08   in [TS]

00:53:09   thinking about or dwelling on why it is [TS]

00:53:12   that he was forced out of the company [TS]

00:53:13   but I think there are lots of things we [TS]

00:53:16   can talk about about this change without [TS]

00:53:18   really caring why it happened [TS]

00:53:20   necessarily I mean we can look at you [TS]

00:53:23   know possible things that could have [TS]

00:53:25   contributed to basically I'm resigned to [TS]

00:53:27   never knowing and really don't care that [TS]

00:53:29   much about what is it that made this [TS]

00:53:32   they brought this over the edge what [TS]

00:53:35   made it go from some sort of internal [TS]

00:53:38   problem to the solutions this problem is [TS]

00:53:40   to get rid of force though does that [TS]

00:53:42   does that make sense yes and I'm I don't [TS]

00:53:47   know like I tried to put myself in the [TS]

00:53:49   shoes of one of these multi-millionaire [TS]

00:53:52   executives he's mean just jump right [TS]

00:53:54   into that you can get into that yeah cuz [TS]

00:53:57   I wouldn't want like if you were Scott [TS]

00:53:59   for the forest all the press has not [TS]

00:54:01   been fair to him I feel like I mean [TS]

00:54:02   maybe you know maybe like in his [TS]

00:54:06   autobiography come combined with like an [TS]

00:54:10   apple tell-all history like 10 years now [TS]

00:54:12   we'll start to get a picture of but now [TS]

00:54:13   you're not gonna so it's not useful to [TS]

00:54:16   uh to think about that so let me back [TS]

00:54:20   way up and take a look at this [TS]

00:54:22   reshuffling without trying to care so [TS]

00:54:26   much about personalities and stuff like [TS]

00:54:29   that ok let's look at let's look at the [TS]

00:54:31   the Tim Cook era of Apple such as it did [TS]

00:54:35   so far so when Tim Cook took over a CEO [TS]

00:54:39   is Apple and this was before Steve Jobs [TS]

00:54:42   died because he he sort of handed over [TS]

00:54:43   the reins as he left the company Apple [TS]

00:54:47   was on a hell of a winning streak at [TS]

00:54:48   that point and so cooks job first and [TS]

00:54:52   foremost was to keep a good thing going [TS]

00:54:54   right I and that's what everybody said [TS]

00:54:57   when the transfer of power happened it's [TS]

00:54:59   like they broke don't fix it oh okies [TS]

00:55:01   here you know don't mess anything up man [TS]

00:55:02   cuz like you know they're going [TS]

00:55:03   gangbusters everything everything was [TS]

00:55:05   roses iphone [TS]

00:55:06   had like you know just everything Steve [TS]

00:55:08   Jobs had done in his past you know it [TS]

00:55:10   last few projects would have been just [TS]

00:55:11   all all thumbs up everyone was loving it [TS]

00:55:14   great things were happening uh and all [TS]

00:55:17   the reassuring statements either about [TS]

00:55:19   Apple or from Apple we're like don't [TS]

00:55:21   worry Tim's gonna do just what Steve was [TS]

00:55:23   doing like yeah you know he's gonna be [TS]

00:55:26   his own man someone so forth but he's [TS]

00:55:27   not gonna screw up at stuff that Steve [TS]

00:55:29   day because we understand like you know [TS]

00:55:30   don't be afraid he's not gonna suddenly [TS]

00:55:32   decide that Apple's gonna go into you [TS]

00:55:33   know the health food business uh and [TS]

00:55:37   this is despite the fact that Jobs [TS]

00:55:39   himself insisted that cook should make [TS]

00:55:41   his own decisions about Apple like I put [TS]

00:55:44   a link in the show notes to our [TS]

00:55:45   technical articles course when I was [TS]

00:55:47   saying you know don't don't ask it jobs [TS]

00:55:48   who say don't ask yourself what I would [TS]

00:55:50   you just do what it is right you know [TS]

00:55:51   that's Steve Jobs own advice but [TS]

00:55:53   everyone else in the world is like yeah [TS]

00:55:55   ignore was steve said do what he would [TS]

00:55:57   do just do it he would do it because [TS]

00:55:58   everything he did was awesome and you [TS]

00:56:00   just got to keep doing that at least in [TS]

00:56:01   the short term so it's like all of us [TS]

00:56:03   out here on the outside totally wanted [TS]

00:56:06   Tim Cook to just be uh to be like I'd [TS]

00:56:09   proxy Steve Jobs like make make us feel [TS]

00:56:12   like Steve Jobs it isn't really gone and [TS]

00:56:13   then when he died same thing like just [TS]

00:56:15   Tim just do what Steve would do [TS]

00:56:16   disregard everything do what Steven dude [TS]

00:56:18   except that part where he told you not [TS]

00:56:19   to do what he would do do everything [TS]

00:56:21   except that um and that's what he wanted [TS]

00:56:23   you know that's what we all wanted on [TS]

00:56:25   the outside like no customers investors [TS]

00:56:28   everybody who is wanted that was like [TS]

00:56:30   just don't screw this up man because [TS]

00:56:31   it's been so awesome right and so what [TS]

00:56:33   that means is that cook didn't come in [TS]

00:56:35   on his first day CEO like clean house at [TS]

00:56:37   the executive level you didn't go okay [TS]

00:56:38   now I'm the new boss in charge steve is [TS]

00:56:40   out and I'm making some changes I'm [TS]

00:56:43   gonna redecorate I'm gonna change [TS]

00:56:44   everything here he did not do that and [TS]

00:56:46   that is very common for like when a new [TS]

00:56:47   CEO comes into a company look at like [TS]

00:56:49   the other tech companies which are [TS]

00:56:50   incredibly dysfunctional and terrible [TS]

00:56:52   but like you know get every every new [TS]

00:56:54   CEO that's come into HP and further [TS]

00:56:55   screwed up or even apples olds [TS]

00:56:57   executives they come in and say things [TS]

00:56:59   are gonna change around this place like [TS]

00:57:00   that's how you assert yourself as a CEO [TS]

00:57:01   you know a marissa or that may or am i [TS]

00:57:03   er I know your browser name i think it's [TS]

00:57:05   mmm meyer the one going to yahoo she's [TS]

00:57:09   you know she's not gonna go in there and [TS]

00:57:11   go i'm just gonna continue what the [TS]

00:57:12   previous guy did because usually when [TS]

00:57:14   you CEO is changing its like that all [TS]

00:57:17   guys screwed things up you got to come [TS]

00:57:18   fix neck so you come in and you [TS]

00:57:19   you make some big changes right away and [TS]

00:57:22   cook did not do that right what he did [TS]

00:57:25   was inherited the exact same team that [TS]

00:57:27   he had been on that he had been a member [TS]

00:57:29   of all those members of the top level [TS]

00:57:31   executive staff were still there except [TS]

00:57:34   they took the guy in the middle of that [TS]

00:57:36   diagram the guy I'm unquestionably in [TS]

00:57:38   charge of everybody and removed him and [TS]

00:57:40   team dynamics changed when the team [TS]

00:57:42   members change and especially if the [TS]

00:57:44   change is we took out the guy who was in [TS]

00:57:45   the center of this diagram and who was [TS]

00:57:47   in charge now the team dynamics are [TS]

00:57:49   definitely going to change but the team [TS]

00:57:50   dynamics machines but he kept the same [TS]

00:57:52   team because that was part of his thing [TS]

00:57:54   is like he decided you know I'm not [TS]

00:57:56   gonna rock the boat I'm gonna come in [TS]

00:57:57   and I'm not going to just change [TS]

00:57:59   everything I'm just gonna go with what I [TS]

00:58:00   have but he didn't he couldn't possibly [TS]

00:58:02   continue what they were doing because [TS]

00:58:03   such a big chart of it had changed it [TS]

00:58:06   seemed that some kind of reshuffling was [TS]

00:58:08   inevitable and he didn't do it like [TS]

00:58:10   other than you know Ron Johnson leaving [TS]

00:58:12   to go to jcpenney and being replaced and [TS]

00:58:14   I remember that happened before after he [TS]

00:58:15   came but like that's not his doing like [TS]

00:58:17   that Ron Johnson decided to leave and so [TS]

00:58:19   we had to replace him and stuff like [TS]

00:58:20   that so he did eventually have to make [TS]

00:58:22   decisions like that uh just like you [TS]

00:58:28   know being forced to to sort of taking [TS]

00:58:30   Crowes like okay Tim you can't just [TS]

00:58:32   coast on the projects that were in the [TS]

00:58:34   pipeline jobs there keep the exact same [TS]

00:58:36   executive team the exact same project [TS]

00:58:37   just go at some point you're gonna have [TS]

00:58:38   to start doing stuff uh and that's how [TS]

00:58:41   you know and we couldn't judged him cook [TS]

00:58:43   by what he did when he came in and [TS]

00:58:45   cleaned house because he didn't uh so [TS]

00:58:47   one of the first things that he did was [TS]

00:58:48   I think this was him I gotta look at [TS]

00:58:50   there's a January 31st 2012 I believe I [TS]

00:58:55   guess that was the others after Jobs was [TS]

00:58:57   gone right because he died in October [TS]

00:58:59   2011 right right yeah so one of cooks [TS]

00:59:03   first major decisions was I got to find [TS]

00:59:05   that guy to replace Ron Johnson and he [TS]

00:59:07   picked John Browett who ran Dixon's [TS]

00:59:10   which was apparently a UK chain I have [TS]

00:59:13   link in the show notes to this article [TS]

00:59:15   on our stock to go does dixons retail [TS]

00:59:17   CEO John brow decide to take over [TS]

00:59:19   rappers former retail chief blah blah [TS]

00:59:21   and that wasn't that higher was not [TS]

00:59:27   looked upon particularly finally like [TS]

00:59:29   right off the bat because it was like [TS]

00:59:32   this is nearest act ago story says he [TS]

00:59:35   may be a poor choice to succeed apples [TS]

00:59:37   former senior vice president ron johnson [TS]

00:59:38   if customer service clean stores and [TS]

00:59:40   great products are still priorities of [TS]

00:59:41   the companies and it's because Dixon's [TS]

00:59:43   the chain that he had previously you [TS]

00:59:46   know the food previous being charged up [TS]

00:59:47   does not have a good reputation [TS]

00:59:49   apparently in the UK and people who knew [TS]

00:59:52   Dixon's and new brauch said this is like [TS]

00:59:55   the opposite of what I think of when I [TS]

00:59:57   think of the apple store and this is the [TS]

00:59:58   guy you hired to be in charge with the [TS]

00:59:59   app [TS]

00:59:59   app [TS]

01:00:00   store now when these stories were coming [TS]

01:00:02   out uh I didn't lend much credence to [TS]

01:00:05   them again because lots of people like [TS]

01:00:08   just look at all the people who are [TS]

01:00:09   currently on the executive staff and [TS]

01:00:10   Apple the people who have done great [TS]

01:00:11   jobs they may have been associated with [TS]

01:00:13   crappy company or easier and in charge [TS]

01:00:15   of crappy companies in the past but I [TS]

01:00:16   was like well Apple gives you a chance [TS]

01:00:17   to do things differently like the rules [TS]

01:00:19   are different an apple you have more [TS]

01:00:20   freedom you actually have a good product [TS]

01:00:22   it's not like a bargain-basement a thin [TS]

01:00:27   margin retail business like things can [TS]

01:00:29   be different you know I don't remember [TS]

01:00:30   who ron jons come from compact or [TS]

01:00:32   something like whatever Ron Johnson did [TS]

01:00:33   before the apple store probably did not [TS]

01:00:36   succeed to level the apple store is so [TS]

01:00:37   if you saw Ron Johnson he's not going to [TS]

01:00:39   help you look what he's done in the past [TS]

01:00:40   just been all bunch of crappy retail [TS]

01:00:41   stores he's never gonna you know things [TS]

01:00:43   are different inside apples was it all [TS]

01:00:45   right I'm given this John Brown guide [TS]

01:00:47   chance let's just because his previous [TS]

01:00:49   chain of stores was the anti apple store [TS]

01:00:51   uh maybe the reason he wants to bail [TS]

01:00:54   he's like I'm tired of this dog-eat-dog [TS]

01:00:55   world and I want to do something better [TS]

01:00:57   but his start was not auspicious in [TS]

01:01:00   August so he's you know hired in January [TS]

01:01:02   in August they had this big blowup where [TS]

01:01:05   one of the first policies that he [TS]

01:01:08   implemented was to lower the staffing [TS]

01:01:11   levels to try to reduce the overhead of [TS]

01:01:12   the store because like all you got all [TS]

01:01:14   these employees and if we can reduce [TS]

01:01:17   headcount you can get more a profit out [TS]

01:01:20   of this some of the Chairman saying Ron [TS]

01:01:22   Johnson was uh was hired based on a [TS]

01:01:24   success at target but I would still say [TS]

01:01:25   target looks very different than an [TS]

01:01:27   apple store she's gonna do retail apples [TS]

01:01:30   retail so I was gonna be like target [TS]

01:01:31   yeah that's better than kmart but just [TS]

01:01:32   barely yeah anyway very different [TS]

01:01:34   environment Apple so when Brout came and [TS]

01:01:37   you know it seemed like a bean counter [TS]

01:01:40   kind of thing to do we can make more [TS]

01:01:42   profit from these stores that we just [TS]

01:01:43   reduce our headcount I think we can [TS]

01:01:44   still support the customs into this [TS]

01:01:45   headcount and that decision was not [TS]

01:01:49   popular among employees wearing anyone [TS]

01:01:51   among anybody media you me anyone yet [TS]

01:01:55   because the employees were like you're [TS]

01:01:57   cutting my hours or you're laying me off [TS]

01:01:58   worse right and the customers are like [TS]

01:02:01   every time I go into the apple store [TS]

01:02:02   it's hard enough for me to find someone [TS]

01:02:04   to help me and now you're gonna reduce [TS]

01:02:06   that thing I think this was well you [TS]

01:02:09   know it's like August is not right [TS]

01:02:10   before the holiday season but it's kind [TS]

01:02:12   of right before the holiday season [TS]

01:02:13   and these changes supposedly because he [TS]

01:02:16   he also implemented a twenty-five [TS]

01:02:17   percent pay raise and to support the pay [TS]

01:02:20   raise you know perry's i'm sure the [TS]

01:02:21   Apple employees loved you know we all [TS]

01:02:23   you know pipe pillows guys there that's [TS]

01:02:24   great but it's all to pay for that pay [TS]

01:02:27   raise I have to lay off a bunch of you [TS]

01:02:28   right and this was not popular and [TS]

01:02:31   people were angry about it an apple [TS]

01:02:33   reversed it so this story from August [TS]

01:02:36   sixteenth is new apple retail chief [TS]

01:02:37   makes quote mistake and firing staff [TS]

01:02:39   comma hires them back right and Apple is [TS]

01:02:42   reversing changes to the formerly used [TS]

01:02:43   to calculate staffing levels in its [TS]

01:02:45   retail stores an experiment using the [TS]

01:02:46   new formula it apparently led to wide [TS]

01:02:48   ranging layoffs and cuts and assign [TS]

01:02:49   hours however Apple's new retail chief [TS]

01:02:52   John brow to the company quote messed up [TS]

01:02:54   implementing the changes in the first [TS]

01:02:55   place right so here is your new hire [TS]

01:02:57   whose first major visible initiative is [TS]

01:03:00   wildly unpopular and immediately reverse [TS]

01:03:04   and then you then it's like I imagined [TS]

01:03:06   him having to go like someone chastising [TS]

01:03:09   him and now he has to make like a public [TS]

01:03:11   apology of saying that thing I totally [TS]

01:03:12   wanted to do that was a mistake and so [TS]

01:03:14   here's apple spokesperson Kristen huget [TS]

01:03:17   saying making these changes was a [TS]

01:03:18   mistake and the changes are being [TS]

01:03:19   reversed our employees are our most [TS]

01:03:21   important asset and blah blah blah you [TS]

01:03:23   know when a spokesperson has got to come [TS]

01:03:25   out and say that thing that we just [TS]

01:03:26   hired that he did were totally reversing [TS]

01:03:28   and we're just immediately publicly [TS]

01:03:30   admitting this is a mistake even it's [TS]

01:03:31   not like you know they people dog piled [TS]

01:03:33   an apple and force them to admit it was [TS]

01:03:35   a mistake they caught this one pretty [TS]

01:03:37   quickly so it's almost like John browz [TS]

01:03:39   off in his corner office doing his stuff [TS]

01:03:41   and Tim Cook it's windows and he says he [TS]

01:03:42   did what you know and the other [TS]

01:03:44   possibility is that Tim Cook was [TS]

01:03:46   pressuring John brow to say why don't [TS]

01:03:48   these store is more profitable you need [TS]

01:03:50   to make them more profitable and then [TS]

01:03:52   you know he was just acting doing what [TS]

01:03:55   he thought Tim Cook wanted to do and [TS]

01:03:56   then it ended up being a PR situation [TS]

01:03:58   again we don't know what's going on [TS]

01:03:59   inside the company but bottom line is [TS]

01:04:00   questionable higher we were all [TS]

01:04:04   suspicious about his first major move [TS]

01:04:06   immediately reversed these are not good [TS]

01:04:10   things and and this is like Tim Cook's [TS]

01:04:12   first major move at the corporate level [TS]

01:04:15   in terms of the executives so not like [TS]

01:04:16   I'm not looking good for Tim Cook's [TS]

01:04:18   track record so far this is a comment on [TS]

01:04:21   one of those stories from the cosh th [TS]

01:04:24   EKG on arstechnica promoted come [TS]

01:04:26   says as a former apple store specialist [TS]

01:04:29   I can't even imagine a word coming down [TS]

01:04:30   that they were going to cut the number [TS]

01:04:31   of people working our biggest complaints [TS]

01:04:33   were always long lines of I waited 20 [TS]

01:04:35   minutes for someone to help me and [TS]

01:04:36   decided to leave like that's the [TS]

01:04:37   complaints that they get from people on [TS]

01:04:38   the apple store it's not that you know [TS]

01:04:39   you weren't helpful or your stores were [TS]

01:04:42   ugly and dirty or I couldn't find [TS]

01:04:44   anything it's that I couldn't get helped [TS]

01:04:45   so again cutting employees doesn't seem [TS]

01:04:47   like a good idea lots of I've seen lots [TS]

01:04:51   of stories and both sides this both that [TS]

01:04:53   John Brown did this on his own it was [TS]

01:04:57   reversed and also that this is something [TS]

01:04:59   that institutional bean counter Tim Cook [TS]

01:05:02   always wanted to do and Steve Jobs was [TS]

01:05:04   the one stopping him from applying his [TS]

01:05:07   bean-counting tendencies the stores say [TS]

01:05:09   no we can't you know don't treat it as [TS]

01:05:11   like a profit Center even though they [TS]

01:05:13   make tons of money don't try to squeeze [TS]

01:05:14   every ounce out of it it's not it's more [TS]

01:05:16   important for us to preserve the image [TS]

01:05:18   of our brand that it is to get every red [TS]

01:05:19   cent out of these stores so I don't know [TS]

01:05:21   what's going on internally but clearly [TS]

01:05:22   it was some sort of conflict and it [TS]

01:05:23   didn't work out uh there are more [TS]

01:05:26   stories about this even after the [TS]

01:05:27   reversal bits like now John bribe route [TS]

01:05:30   has been has been painted with the bean [TS]

01:05:31   counter brush and this another story [TS]

01:05:33   link in the show notes from August [TS]

01:05:34   twenty-eighth apple store may be [TS]

01:05:35   shifting from customer experience to [TS]

01:05:37   profit machine so even though they [TS]

01:05:39   reversed all the things you know this [TS]

01:05:42   wasn't this was an op-ed the idea was [TS]

01:05:45   that now Brown see see I told you about [TS]

01:05:47   this guy all he wants to do is like you [TS]

01:05:49   turn it into a crappy store that just [TS]

01:05:51   makes every amount of money can and [TS]

01:05:52   you're gonna be pushing like the [TS]

01:05:53   extended warranties in the undercoating [TS]

01:05:54   and the two-hundred-dollar monster [TS]

01:05:56   cables and it's just gonna be best buy [TS]

01:05:57   in like a month all right and everyone [TS]

01:05:59   who was saying that now had some [TS]

01:06:01   evidence of like look this is just what [TS]

01:06:02   this guy wants to do and so now he's out [TS]

01:06:04   now this executive be hired this one [TS]

01:06:07   change he'd made to the executive lineup [TS]

01:06:09   Tim Cook's guy who he brought in all our [TS]

01:06:12   worst fears turned out to be true [TS]

01:06:13   apparently as far as we can tell from [TS]

01:06:15   the outside and he's out fired and [TS]

01:06:18   you're gonna say why was he fired well [TS]

01:06:19   what has he done in his six months there [TS]

01:06:21   uh one thing that turned out terribly [TS]

01:06:24   and he had to immediately reverse so [TS]

01:06:26   he's gone now Mansfield here's another [TS]

01:06:30   thing that happened surrounding Tim [TS]

01:06:33   Cook's time and her when did Tim Cook [TS]

01:06:35   take over i forget i have mansfield [TS]

01:06:37   dates here but not in books but night [TS]

01:06:38   uh Mansell retired in June and then he [TS]

01:06:42   came back in August so right away that's [TS]

01:06:43   weird he retires they give the nice l [TS]

01:06:46   Bob Mansfield's retiring he wants to go [TS]

01:06:47   on to do other things obviously not [TS]

01:06:49   fired he's retiring you know young but [TS]

01:06:53   you know again multi millionaires from [TS]

01:06:54   retirement sure uh and then he's back in [TS]

01:06:57   August uh and and that's that's weird [TS]

01:07:02   because do we stitch is further ado we [TS]

01:07:04   see this with other corporations have [TS]

01:07:06   you done a cross-check have you done in [TS]

01:07:07   comparison with other companies to see [TS]

01:07:09   if they have this kind of shuffling as [TS]

01:07:11   much I mean usually with another company [TS]

01:07:13   like somebody leaves they're gone they [TS]

01:07:14   don't they don't get to come back well [TS]

01:07:16   if they leave that their own accord like [TS]

01:07:17   I bet this happens all the time in [TS]

01:07:19   companies is just that every company [TS]

01:07:20   isn't watched like uh like Apple is I [TS]

01:07:24   mean maybe at the very highest level to [TS]

01:07:25   think of the very highest levels of [TS]

01:07:27   companies like I don't know like [TS]

01:07:28   Microsoft or IBM or whatever companies [TS]

01:07:31   that are similarly watch or Google hey [TS]

01:07:34   the traditional thing is like once you [TS]

01:07:37   get to a certain level in a corporation [TS]

01:07:38   you're nothing matters anymore like [TS]

01:07:41   almost nothing matters it your [TS]

01:07:44   performance your personality is pretty [TS]

01:07:46   much nothing you can do to ever get [TS]

01:07:47   fired because you're the one who [TS]

01:07:49   determines hiring and firing and to get [TS]

01:07:50   them at level in the corporation you [TS]

01:07:51   must have learned how to do internal [TS]

01:07:53   corporate politics to the point where [TS]

01:07:54   you have your own coalition of [TS]

01:07:56   supporters and your own little fiefdom [TS]

01:07:57   that you built for yourself and like [TS]

01:07:59   that's that's all the corporate malaise [TS]

01:08:01   that happens and that's why you don't [TS]

01:08:03   see stories like this but in good [TS]

01:08:05   companies that are more competitive at [TS]

01:08:07   the top levels occasionally you do see [TS]

01:08:08   defections like Marissa Meyer or mayor [TS]

01:08:09   or the stuff we see at Apple ah but a [TS]

01:08:13   retirement is usually like well you know [TS]

01:08:16   I never thought I'd be rich now I am and [TS]

01:08:19   I've been working really hard for a lot [TS]

01:08:21   of years and I want to go out and [TS]

01:08:22   another example at I get to a little bit [TS]

01:08:23   later is aa bhi toh maine Ian who came [TS]

01:08:25   from next and was in charge of their [TS]

01:08:27   software and stuff and he retired and he [TS]

01:08:29   just you know the same thing as it [TS]

01:08:30   looked exactly like Mansfield I work [TS]

01:08:32   really hard for a lot of years I've been [TS]

01:08:34   rewarded for that work because Apple has [TS]

01:08:36   been very successful now a [TS]

01:08:37   multimillionaire now I want to do [TS]

01:08:39   something else that's totally what [TS]

01:08:40   Mansfield look like but when he comes [TS]

01:08:41   back and August what that really means [TS]

01:08:43   is that it wasn't like a V where he [TS]

01:08:45   would legitimately wanted to do other [TS]

01:08:46   things he had some other reasons for [TS]

01:08:48   leaving and was able to be lured back [TS]

01:08:50   right [TS]

01:08:51   right right and you know at the time [TS]

01:08:54   were like that's weird what what could [TS]

01:08:56   you it was it just because he felt like [TS]

01:08:58   I wasn't getting paid enough like was [TS]

01:08:59   that that none of this speaks well to [TS]

01:09:02   Tim Cook uh it to his management because [TS]

01:09:05   if you have someone who is uh says [TS]

01:09:08   they're retiring but they really just [TS]

01:09:09   want to be paid more or something you [TS]

01:09:10   should address that before they retire [TS]

01:09:12   and it like and I have to think that [TS]

01:09:13   that's that's crazy anyway like it's not [TS]

01:09:16   like an actor where you're like oh the [TS]

01:09:17   star of this of this movie is getting 20 [TS]

01:09:19   million but i'm only getting five we're [TS]

01:09:21   like the seinfeld thing where they all [TS]

01:09:22   wanted more money and jerry seinfeld was [TS]

01:09:24   getting more than the other stars and [TS]

01:09:25   any all sorts of like ego-driven [TS]

01:09:27   Starbase things but i feel like all of [TS]

01:09:30   these guys executives were being paid [TS]

01:09:31   very well had tons of stock options it [TS]

01:09:34   wasn't a money issue and so then you [TS]

01:09:36   left to wonder if it's just some sort of [TS]

01:09:38   personality conflict and how do you get [TS]

01:09:39   the guy to come back what have you done [TS]

01:09:42   to change things and it seemed like they [TS]

01:09:44   did nothing he leaves and rooney comes [TS]

01:09:45   back in August I'm like well nothing has [TS]

01:09:47   changed between june and august that we [TS]

01:09:49   can imagine you know we don't think it's [TS]

01:09:51   money they didn't like you know he [TS]

01:09:55   wanted a job that he could never got and [TS]

01:09:56   when he brought back he finally got that [TS]

01:09:57   job now they brought him back and he [TS]

01:09:59   seemed to have a less powerful position [TS]

01:10:00   than he had before he was like advisor [TS]

01:10:01   or whatever and he used to be in [TS]

01:10:02   chargeable hardware so it was mysterious [TS]

01:10:04   all right but in this same announcement [TS]

01:10:08   that forestall is out now Mansfield [TS]

01:10:10   suddenly has a new more powerful [TS]

01:10:12   position not forestall his old job but [TS]

01:10:14   different you know he's in charge of [TS]

01:10:15   technologies in charge of this this [TS]

01:10:17   other big thing uh so regardless of the [TS]

01:10:20   reasoning behind this is what I'm saying [TS]

01:10:22   we can try to talk about this without [TS]

01:10:23   actually knowing is it because Mansfield [TS]

01:10:24   hated forestall and he wouldn't come [TS]

01:10:26   back until he got a promise at Forrester [TS]

01:10:27   was going out and seems like hoodie who [TS]

01:10:30   knows but like independent of what the [TS]

01:10:32   reasoning is when something like this [TS]

01:10:34   happens it is a black mark on Tim Cook's [TS]

01:10:38   record like if you're keeping things in [TS]

01:10:40   order you should be the one deciding [TS]

01:10:41   who's hired and fired if someone leaves [TS]

01:10:44   you should make sure that their that [TS]

01:10:46   they're leaving for reasons that you [TS]

01:10:48   have no control over and they really do [TS]

01:10:50   just want to retire like all you know [TS]

01:10:52   this type of thing we're a really [TS]

01:10:54   important guy leaves and you get them to [TS]

01:10:55   come back and another guy goes like it's [TS]

01:10:57   just not it's just like good manage but [TS]

01:10:59   not just because of the optics of like [TS]

01:11:01   how it looks from the outside and [TS]

01:11:02   everything but just in terms of like [TS]

01:11:03   turmoil and like [TS]

01:11:05   you know that you want the company to be [TS]

01:11:07   steady and under good leadership and it [TS]

01:11:09   should be like positive changes and [TS]

01:11:10   accounting crew people who want to leave [TS]

01:11:12   and retire this is this is I think a [TS]

01:11:15   failure of Management no not a big one [TS]

01:11:17   but a small one like it's not this is [TS]

01:11:18   not a estar and Tim Cook's record the [TS]

01:11:20   fact that all that happened regardless [TS]

01:11:21   there's no there's no reason this could [TS]

01:11:23   have happened that you know gives you a [TS]

01:11:24   gold star so cook the record so far he [TS]

01:11:27   hired the wrong guy for retail and had [TS]

01:11:29   to fire him uh and he did not manage his [TS]

01:11:34   current crop of executives who he [TS]

01:11:35   apparently loves right well enough [TS]

01:11:37   because they you know they bailed on him [TS]

01:11:40   he had to pull him back in right so here [TS]

01:11:44   finally I think with this reshuffle [TS]

01:11:47   announcement is the beginning of the [TS]

01:11:48   real Tim Cook era because finally he has [TS]

01:11:51   done that thing going so you're saying [TS]

01:11:53   you're saying that that that's over that [TS]

01:11:54   the reshuffle that he has now created [TS]

01:11:56   the Apple that he wants you're saying [TS]

01:11:58   he's done now he's put the people in [TS]

01:11:59   place he's made things happen and and we [TS]

01:12:02   should not see any more of this not that [TS]

01:12:04   he's done this is like this is like the [TS]

01:12:06   beginning like you could imagine in a [TS]

01:12:08   more traditional scenario where your CEO [TS]

01:12:10   goes out because he's crappy the new CEO [TS]

01:12:11   comes in and like you know day one or [TS]

01:12:14   day ten or something impressed with [TS]

01:12:15   these slick comes like this Here I am [TS]

01:12:16   I'm coming in and I'm changing things [TS]

01:12:19   around here and the first change is [TS]

01:12:20   forced all your out Mansfield you're in [TS]

01:12:22   charge of this Brout you're gone uh-uh [TS]

01:12:24   you people have new responsibilities he [TS]

01:12:27   is starting the Tim Cook Aaron now not [TS]

01:12:30   that it's not going to be more changes [TS]

01:12:31   there will be but this is the first set [TS]

01:12:33   of them this marks the beginning of it [TS]

01:12:35   and so it's like the time between and [TS]

01:12:36   Steve Jobs left and now was him kind of [TS]

01:12:39   coasting trying not to screw things up [TS]

01:12:42   but really actually screwing things up a [TS]

01:12:44   little bit and now he's finally said all [TS]

01:12:46   right the time for me to just be like [TS]

01:12:48   continue doing don't mess things up that [TS]

01:12:50   time is over and it's time for me to do [TS]

01:12:51   stuff because things had by not doing [TS]

01:12:53   things I guess we all know by sort of [TS]

01:12:56   letting things slide and just trying to [TS]

01:12:58   you know stay the course things do screw [TS]

01:13:00   up bad things happen and so he's finally [TS]

01:13:03   taking the reins finally taking control [TS]

01:13:04   so what did you do to recover from his [TS]

01:13:06   bad record get rid of the bad retail guy [TS]

01:13:08   get that good Hardware a guy back give [TS]

01:13:11   him more power and you know get rid of [TS]

01:13:14   forest all for whatever reasons and take [TS]

01:13:17   the guys who are still there and [TS]

01:13:18   redistribute their [TS]

01:13:19   responsibilities give them more [TS]

01:13:20   responsibilities reward them and like [TS]

01:13:21   and this is the new team going forward [TS]

01:13:23   finally what we have here is the first [TS]

01:13:25   iteration of the Tim Cook team there are [TS]

01:13:27   many iterations the Steve Jobs team over [TS]

01:13:28   the years as well this is the first [TS]

01:13:29   iteration finally of the Tim Cook team [TS]

01:13:32   this is the beginning of the Tim Cook [TS]

01:13:33   era ah and everything between there I [TS]

01:13:36   would say it was mostly a mistake that [TS]

01:13:40   he waited this long especially given the [TS]

01:13:42   things that happened in between their [TS]

01:13:43   Maps Siri all the other things have you [TS]

01:13:48   know that the bad retail guy like it's [TS]

01:13:51   it you know Tim Cook has a lot of black [TS]

01:13:54   marks on his record but Tim Cook's [TS]

01:13:55   credit he has been fast to recover he [TS]

01:13:59   reversed that bad retail guys decision [TS]

01:14:00   and he gave him a little bit more chance [TS]

01:14:02   but he said no he's got to go like he [TS]

01:14:03   didn't dilly-dally he didn't try to keep [TS]

01:14:05   him around for long whatever the problem [TS]

01:14:06   was with Forrestal dude this is [TS]

01:14:08   definitely a definitive solution for it [TS]

01:14:10   you know right or wrong it forestall was [TS]

01:14:12   the right guy to keep and get rid of the [TS]

01:14:13   other guys or whatever but like this is [TS]

01:14:15   what he's made it's a very definitive [TS]

01:14:16   it's a cut-off point ah 300 last month [TS]

01:14:20   rival section about looking ahead to the [TS]

01:14:23   future oh it's almost sounds optimistic [TS]

01:14:24   coming from you sure shutterstock.com 20 [TS]

01:14:28   million stock photos vectors [TS]

01:14:30   illustrations video clips John if you're [TS]

01:14:33   looking for an image for your website [TS]

01:14:34   blog print ad trade show swag or even [TS]

01:14:37   the iOS app that I know you're building [TS]

01:14:39   you can go to shutterstock they add [TS]

01:14:41   something like 10,000 new images every [TS]

01:14:43   day they work with independent [TS]

01:14:45   photographers illustrators designers to [TS]

01:14:48   make really really cool stuff right [TS]

01:14:50   there and when you go there you download [TS]

01:14:53   the image you get it in the full size [TS]

01:14:55   and the full HD size same thing with [TS]

01:14:58   their video same thing with all the [TS]

01:14:59   stuff that they do they don't nickel and [TS]

01:15:00   dime you mean obviously there are [TS]

01:15:02   company they want to make some money but [TS]

01:15:04   they're turning that money over to the [TS]

01:15:05   folks that do the design work as well [TS]

01:15:07   when you go there you know that you're [TS]

01:15:09   supporting that independent community of [TS]

01:15:11   freelancers and photographers and people [TS]

01:15:13   out there when you're when you're [TS]

01:15:15   cruising around the site you make a [TS]

01:15:17   lightbox you put the stuff that you want [TS]

01:15:18   into the lightbox they have an iPad app [TS]

01:15:20   for this by the way and when you pick [TS]

01:15:23   the things out that you like you want to [TS]

01:15:25   buy them you get thirty percent off you [TS]

01:15:27   use the code Dan sent me 11 this is the [TS]

01:15:31   eleventh month of the year [TS]

01:15:32   you'll get thirty percent off any of the [TS]

01:15:34   packages that you put together their [TS]

01:15:36   huge library vectors and infographic [TS]

01:15:39   templates you name it 24-hour support [TS]

01:15:43   during the week go to shutterstock.com [TS]

01:15:45   code is dan sent me 11 safe thirty [TS]

01:15:49   percent thanks very much to them for [TS]

01:15:51   making this show possible now it's time [TS]

01:15:55   for the optimism to the future I think [TS]

01:15:58   of you as an optimistic guy sure yeah I [TS]

01:16:02   do probably maybe so going forward I go [TS]

01:16:09   through each of the executives who [TS]

01:16:10   something happened with and see what [TS]

01:16:12   their what are they brought in the past [TS]

01:16:14   mocha they have coming card so four [TS]

01:16:15   stalls out what can we look at it you [TS]

01:16:19   know it his legacy what did he do at [TS]

01:16:21   Apple as far as we're able to determine [TS]

01:16:23   from the outside huh first thing is even [TS]

01:16:27   though it's not a confirmed report I've [TS]

01:16:28   seen it enough sources that I believe it [TS]

01:16:31   and I do know that when the iphone was [TS]

01:16:34   under development there were many [TS]

01:16:38   internal arguments as there always are [TS]

01:16:39   at any healthy company i think about [TS]

01:16:41   what the operating system platform [TS]

01:16:44   should be four apples phone thing that [TS]

01:16:47   they were going to do and on one side [TS]

01:16:50   were people arguing that should be [TS]

01:16:52   something other than what it was City [TS]

01:16:55   there should be linux-based or actually [TS]

01:16:57   based on the Pyxis operating system or [TS]

01:16:59   something like that I think Linux was a [TS]

01:17:01   major contender because hey that's you [TS]

01:17:03   know that seems logical and then there [TS]

01:17:05   was another entire camp saying our phone [TS]

01:17:07   operating system should be based on Mac [TS]

01:17:09   OS 10 and forestall reportedly was part [TS]

01:17:12   of the Mac os10 camp in fact a big part [TS]

01:17:15   of the Mac os10 camp and that argument [TS]

01:17:17   if you were to just go back in time and [TS]

01:17:20   look at that and we're like you're gonna [TS]

01:17:21   put mac OS 10 on a phone do you [TS]

01:17:23   understand like it barely runs like it's [TS]

01:17:25   dog slow on you know a g4 powermac and [TS]

01:17:29   you think that's gonna go on a phone [TS]

01:17:31   that you know has some little tiny wimpy [TS]

01:17:33   CPU in there like no ram are you crazy [TS]

01:17:35   like it seems like all right it's great [TS]

01:17:37   i know that you probably wanted to be [TS]

01:17:39   like oh we can use some of the same dev [TS]

01:17:41   tools and stuff but like it's come on [TS]

01:17:42   guys you can't Mac os10 barely runs [TS]

01:17:44   max and you want to put it on a phone [TS]

01:17:45   and yet that camp you know perhaps not [TS]

01:17:49   led by but certainly supported heavily [TS]

01:17:51   by Forrestal according to all accounts [TS]

01:17:52   won that argument inside Apple and [TS]

01:17:54   that's not it that's a hard thing to do [TS]

01:17:56   there may be many cases in the history [TS]

01:17:57   of Apple where the the thing they [TS]

01:18:00   decided to do seems a little crazy or [TS]

01:18:02   like really really difficult or you know [TS]

01:18:05   you've got your work cut out not the [TS]

01:18:06   safe choice and this was not the safe [TS]

01:18:08   choice and Forrestal was four and that [TS]

01:18:09   shows you know daring foresight and it [TS]

01:18:12   was the correct call like does anyone [TS]

01:18:14   think of if iOS was based on linux Apple [TS]

01:18:16   would be where it is today it was very [TS]

01:18:19   difficult to do very very difficult to [TS]

01:18:21   do what they did and the others a [TS]

01:18:22   tremendous amount of crazy compromises [TS]

01:18:25   in iOS one point 0 in the first iphone [TS]

01:18:26   right no no multitasking they couldn't [TS]

01:18:30   even do like the widget eyes apps based [TS]

01:18:31   on like you know HTML and JavaScript and [TS]

01:18:34   stuff because they were too slow [TS]

01:18:35   everything negative you know core [TS]

01:18:37   animation created layer kit created for [TS]

01:18:39   the phone to make things fast GPU [TS]

01:18:41   accelerated like it was an amazing [TS]

01:18:42   technical achievement it was a bold move [TS]

01:18:44   and Forrestal was associated that so [TS]

01:18:46   thumbs up on that right he was involved [TS]

01:18:50   with it eventually led the you know the [TS]

01:18:52   iOS platform for the years when iOS went [TS]

01:18:55   from zero to like you know a big gorilla [TS]

01:18:58   right in some respects things like this [TS]

01:19:01   are a little tiny bit right place right [TS]

01:19:03   time because say you were involved I [TS]

01:19:08   even just the mac OS 10 guys like the [TS]

01:19:10   guys who were in charge of the Mac of [TS]

01:19:11   Mac OS 10 during the same time that for [TS]

01:19:13   so was involved in iOS did they do a [TS]

01:19:15   worse job than for us awesome but [TS]

01:19:17   because the Mac didn't have like [TS]

01:19:18   phenomenal growth like I always did just [TS]

01:19:20   you know the mac is a PC operating [TS]

01:19:21   system that market is mature and it [TS]

01:19:25   doesn't just have just didn't have the [TS]

01:19:26   growth potential that iOS did or it was [TS]

01:19:28   harder to change because it was an [TS]

01:19:29   existing established market whereas hey [TS]

01:19:31   you know this was a smartphone OS it was [TS]

01:19:33   in a class of its own so in some [TS]

01:19:35   respects this is another thing that [TS]

01:19:36   happens in corporations the dude who [TS]

01:19:39   happens to be in charge of the one [TS]

01:19:40   project that probably would have been [TS]

01:19:41   probably would have succeeded anyway [TS]

01:19:43   like it was set up to succeed because it [TS]

01:19:45   was the right plan at the right time and [TS]

01:19:46   the right product and he just had to [TS]

01:19:47   competently executed he looks like a god [TS]

01:19:51   because it's like oh this he's the guy [TS]

01:19:53   in charge of iOS and iOS is the naf the [TS]

01:19:55   foundation of this company it prints [TS]

01:19:56   money like a [TS]

01:19:57   you know like the printing press is just [TS]

01:19:59   unbelievable we're just drowning in [TS]

01:20:01   profit and she's massively successful [TS]

01:20:03   great for forest all that not that he [TS]

01:20:07   doesn't deserve credit for this and I [TS]

01:20:08   just got through saying how he was such [TS]

01:20:10   a strong proponent of it being based on [TS]

01:20:11   Mac os10 which was the right decision [TS]

01:20:13   and a key decision but it is possible no [TS]

01:20:16   matter how awesome you are to end up [TS]

01:20:19   being elevated to a level that exceeds [TS]

01:20:22   you know that your actual merits and you [TS]

01:20:25   end up having maybe more power than you [TS]

01:20:27   should have simply because like he's the [TS]

01:20:29   guy he's the guy who's leading iOS and I [TS]

01:20:31   was like you know he can do no wrong [TS]

01:20:32   he's awesome and Steve Jobs himself has [TS]

01:20:34   that phenomenon a lot but so you know in [TS]

01:20:37   the eyes of your boss or whatever they [TS]

01:20:38   don't need to know the details what they [TS]

01:20:39   know is that you're the guy in charge of [TS]

01:20:41   iOS and iOS is awesome and it's making [TS]

01:20:43   tons of money right and it's hard to [TS]

01:20:47   know during the ascendancy of iOS how [TS]

01:20:50   many things that forestall do that were [TS]

01:20:52   positive or negative how many things was [TS]

01:20:54   he for that were good or against there [TS]

01:20:55   were bed and you know Steve Jobs himself [TS]

01:20:57   is a great example because it various [TS]

01:20:58   times in the ascendancy of the ipod of [TS]

01:21:00   the mac and so on so are Steve Jobs has [TS]

01:21:02   been on the wrong side of many decisions [TS]

01:21:03   and he would you know I don't want [TS]

01:21:05   itunes on Windows to being a great [TS]

01:21:06   example that was the wrong decision it [TS]

01:21:08   needs insisted on and stop the speed and [TS]

01:21:10   was a big baby about it and he was [TS]

01:21:12   eventually convinced by the rest of the [TS]

01:21:13   executive team this was the right thing [TS]

01:21:14   to do that's an example of good [TS]

01:21:17   leadership allowing yourself to be [TS]

01:21:18   convinced and not putting your foot down [TS]

01:21:19   but it's also an example of you making [TS]

01:21:21   the wrong move so I bet forestalls [TS]

01:21:23   stewardship of iOS was similar in that [TS]

01:21:25   maybe he was against a lot of things [TS]

01:21:27   that were good ideas like I don't know [TS]

01:21:29   where he felt that on the App Store [TS]

01:21:30   approval process and all of the various [TS]

01:21:33   compromises made there but maybe he was [TS]

01:21:35   on the wrong side of a lot of those but [TS]

01:21:36   whatever he ended up doing he was either [TS]

01:21:38   able to be convinced by people to make [TS]

01:21:40   the right moves or the things that he [TS]

01:21:41   did weren't bad enough so uh to to [TS]

01:21:44   really hurt it that much so it's hard to [TS]

01:21:48   assess his influence on iOS uh but you [TS]

01:21:54   know especially in the beginning but [TS]

01:21:55   towards the end because House of how [TS]

01:21:58   successful iOS was and because of how [TS]

01:22:01   much power he had acquired within the [TS]

01:22:03   company he was Steve Jobs guy jobs you [TS]

01:22:06   know the two of them by all accounts [TS]

01:22:07   were very close and he was in charge of [TS]

01:22:10   their most successful [TS]

01:22:11   line ever the most successful platform [TS]

01:22:13   ever and so it towards the end of a [TS]

01:22:15   forestalls ring you have to say that [TS]

01:22:17   everything that was going on in iOS you [TS]

01:22:19   know in the beginning you don't know how [TS]

01:22:20   much influence yeah but towards the end [TS]

01:22:21   it's like that would not have happened [TS]

01:22:23   to forestall didn't approve especially [TS]

01:22:25   after Jobs was gone because that was my [TS]

01:22:26   Jobs was around you're like no matter [TS]

01:22:28   what Apple does well the job is [TS]

01:22:29   initially forward against you do know [TS]

01:22:31   that if it was released he was okay with [TS]

01:22:34   it being released like nothing's getting [TS]

01:22:36   out of Apple that Steve Jobs thinks is [TS]

01:22:38   terrible and should never be released [TS]

01:22:39   because he was the guy and he was the [TS]

01:22:40   decider he was the guy in charge of [TS]

01:22:41   everything when Steve Jobs was gone the [TS]

01:22:44   decider for iOS was definitely for so [TS]

01:22:46   when Jobs was there it would be like [TS]

01:22:48   okay Forrestal could decide one thing [TS]

01:22:49   would have jobs said no then I wasn't [TS]

01:22:50   going to happen but it seemed like jobs [TS]

01:22:52   in forest all of the same mind about [TS]

01:22:54   what was going on there so towards the [TS]

01:22:56   end of his reign you can say okay now [TS]

01:22:58   everything that's happening in iOS I'm [TS]

01:23:00   going to lay that at the foot of forest [TS]

01:23:01   all because he was tremendously powerful [TS]

01:23:02   jobs is no longer there and so that's [TS]

01:23:05   got to be him right and examples of [TS]

01:23:07   things that happened when it was just [TS]

01:23:11   Forrestal or when I was at the end of [TS]

01:23:12   his reign and when it's most clear to us [TS]

01:23:15   on the outside that this had to have [TS]

01:23:16   been at least approved by Forrestal [TS]

01:23:18   because he was basically a dictator of [TS]

01:23:20   that whole section of this huge part of [TS]

01:23:21   Apple business are Siri maps and maybe [TS]

01:23:25   the crazy skeuomorphic and textured app [TS]

01:23:29   bonanza that happened on on iOS right [TS]

01:23:32   but certainly Syria maps those land [TS]

01:23:35   directly at the feet of forest all it's [TS]

01:23:37   hard for me to imagine that you know [TS]

01:23:41   like the book has to stop with him at [TS]

01:23:43   that point because he was so clearly in [TS]

01:23:45   charge jobs was gone I can't imagine Tim [TS]

01:23:47   Cook taking on the same role the jobs [TS]

01:23:48   did to come in and say oh I really want [TS]

01:23:50   to find my friends to be leather Tim [TS]

01:23:52   Cook is not doing that by all accounts [TS]

01:23:54   right so that was all on Forrestal and [TS]

01:23:56   all those things have parts of them that [TS]

01:24:02   were not you know up to Apple standard [TS]

01:24:05   Siri was released as beta that's apple [TS]

01:24:08   kind of admitting that's not really [TS]

01:24:10   quite ready to go or whatever but job [TS]

01:24:12   sauce eerie and thumbs up that but he [TS]

01:24:14   was like practically on his deathbed so [TS]

01:24:15   you can't know if he's like why but this [TS]

01:24:17   will be great or whatever or was he [TS]

01:24:18   thinking himself or if I was still well [TS]

01:24:19   and I was in charge I would say maybe [TS]

01:24:21   his leave Syria you know but he wasn't [TS]

01:24:23   in charge anymore so I'm [TS]

01:24:24   the story i think it was in the i [TS]

01:24:25   descend by or someplace else where they [TS]

01:24:27   were showing steve jobs in the hospital [TS]

01:24:28   serie I think it was actually forestall [TS]

01:24:30   showing it to him right but Siri you [TS]

01:24:32   know I've had my show where I talked [TS]

01:24:34   about Siri a little bit they Apple to [TS]

01:24:38   you know to its credit or detriment put [TS]

01:24:41   the full force of apples company behind [TS]

01:24:42   cereal the ads with Siri the celebrities [TS]

01:24:44   talking to or whatever the reality of it [TS]

01:24:46   was like not great and that was kind of [TS]

01:24:48   acknowledged by the beta thing maps [TS]

01:24:50   second rounding and we talked about this [TS]

01:24:51   in the past show Apple had to take over [TS]

01:24:53   maps it had to take the reins on that [TS]

01:24:55   but it also had to do a good job with it [TS]

01:24:56   and so they got most of that except for [TS]

01:24:58   the good job part maybe not so much [TS]

01:25:00   maybe it should have baked longer or [TS]

01:25:01   whatever that falls at forestalls feet [TS]

01:25:05   as well right and the skeuomorphic stuff [TS]

01:25:07   with the you know things looking like [TS]

01:25:09   leather or looking like knobs that you [TS]

01:25:11   have to turn stuff like that or just [TS]

01:25:13   everything being texture with linen [TS]

01:25:15   everywhere every report we seniors at [TS]

01:25:17   steve jobs like that and that forest all [TS]

01:25:20   liked to and once you know like iOS 6 [TS]

01:25:22   the OS that i would say you know is the [TS]

01:25:26   moat has four stalls fingerprinted the [TS]

01:25:28   most certainly he had the most power to [TS]

01:25:29   influence that had a ton of that stuff [TS]

01:25:31   now mango was tended to I don't know [TS]

01:25:33   forestall properly didn't have any moves [TS]

01:25:35   over matter was ten i'm not sure but uh [TS]

01:25:36   that's why i say maybe for this year [TS]

01:25:39   more big stuff and there's tons of [TS]

01:25:40   stories about that like oh the whole [TS]

01:25:41   reason we have these ugly skeuomorphic [TS]

01:25:43   apps is because Forrestal was in charge [TS]

01:25:45   now that he's gone we won't have them [TS]

01:25:46   anymore I don't think that's clear so [TS]

01:25:48   that's why I give that one a maybe ah [TS]

01:25:49   but if you're looking for from the [TS]

01:25:52   outside any possible reason why [TS]

01:25:54   Forrestal should be out of the company [TS]

01:25:57   just based on the visibility things we [TS]

01:25:59   can see we also have Siri performed in [TS]

01:26:01   what it did we all saw have maps [TS]

01:26:02   performing in what it did so those two [TS]

01:26:04   things combined with any possible [TS]

01:26:06   personality conflict person I like [TS]

01:26:08   complex alone aren't going to do it I [TS]

01:26:09   don't think map someone do it I don't [TS]

01:26:11   think Siri alone would do just a serious [TS]

01:26:12   combination of everything yeah Syria [TS]

01:26:14   plus maps plus any kind of personality [TS]

01:26:16   conflict in terms in whether he's right [TS]

01:26:18   or wrong with everyone else's the jerk [TS]

01:26:20   and Scott Forstall is not a jerk [TS]

01:26:21   regardless like those two actual [TS]

01:26:24   performance related things combined with [TS]

01:26:27   any kind of personality conflict no [TS]

01:26:29   matter who's right and who's wrong I [TS]

01:26:30   think that it adequately explains why [TS]

01:26:34   Forrestal is now out and it's kind of [TS]

01:26:38   said but on the other hand those two [TS]

01:26:40   things Syrian maps and I we all made fun [TS]

01:26:42   of the whole this would've never [TS]

01:26:43   happened to Steve Jobs was there you [TS]

01:26:44   know Steve Jobs had plenty of stinkers [TS]

01:26:45   too but uh and seemed guys really did [TS]

01:26:48   like Forrestal and it could be the Steve [TS]

01:26:49   Jobs would have given him more of a [TS]

01:26:51   chance sir we're taking the reins [TS]

01:26:52   tighter but jobs wasn't about firing [TS]

01:26:54   people either I papermaster who they [TS]

01:26:55   hired from or the IBM or something he [TS]

01:26:57   came and went pretty quickly to under [TS]

01:26:59   the jobs era so yeah I think this this [TS]

01:27:03   forestalls legacy is mostly positive but [TS]

01:27:08   kind of ended on not a great note for [TS]

01:27:10   Apple or for himself because it's the [TS]

01:27:13   last things you did or Syrian maps maybe [TS]

01:27:17   that's not such a great track record ah [TS]

01:27:18   so cook getting rid of him regardless of [TS]

01:27:22   any other reasons is probably a positive [TS]

01:27:24   because like it's like I gave you a [TS]

01:27:26   chance iOS platform has not been [TS]

01:27:29   floundering it's still doing very well [TS]

01:27:30   and everything but these two misses [TS]

01:27:33   combined with whatever the heck's going [TS]

01:27:34   on personality wise is a reason enough [TS]

01:27:36   that you gotta go next one up is Johnny [TS]

01:27:39   I've who we all know for many years it's [TS]

01:27:43   been out for a long time industrial [TS]

01:27:44   designer making up all the suit so it's [TS]

01:27:46   hardware now he's going to be in it [TS]

01:27:48   would be one guy in charge of human [TS]

01:27:50   interface where there was never well [TS]

01:27:52   there hadn't been in the jobs to error [TS]

01:27:53   really anyone who had this position [TS]

01:27:54   other than implicitly Steve Jobs himself [TS]

01:27:57   but now there's an actual guy whose [TS]

01:27:59   title is here in interface across the [TS]

01:28:01   entire company and this includes both [TS]

01:28:03   hardware and software cuz he's still in [TS]

01:28:04   charge of industrial design and now he's [TS]

01:28:06   also in charge of the human interface of [TS]

01:28:07   all their software right and the [TS]

01:28:10   question is now we all know what jony [TS]

01:28:13   ive's industrial design taste is because [TS]

01:28:15   we're all staring at and touching it and [TS]

01:28:16   using it all the time like his you know [TS]

01:28:19   we know what that aesthetic is what is [TS]

01:28:21   his software taste do we know anything [TS]

01:28:23   about what he how he feels about [TS]

01:28:25   software now supposedly Johnny I've had [TS]

01:28:29   a big influence on the design of the [TS]

01:28:30   very first version of iOS which if you [TS]

01:28:32   look at the very first version of iOS [TS]

01:28:34   looks very different than iOS 6 in terms [TS]

01:28:36   of just you know the look and feel of [TS]

01:28:38   the thing not the operation so much just [TS]

01:28:40   look in the field of the widgets and the [TS]

01:28:41   textures and the way the apps are [TS]

01:28:44   organized and the interfaces and stuff [TS]

01:28:45   like that and you know as I said by all [TS]

01:28:49   accounts for stall and jobs for [TS]

01:28:51   totally on the bandwagon of they like [TS]

01:28:53   like things look like they were made of [TS]

01:28:54   real material looks like it's made of [TS]

01:28:55   wood looks like it's made of some other [TS]

01:28:57   material and they also like [TS]

01:28:58   skeuomorphism where it's like well a [TS]

01:29:00   real mixer control panel has knobs on it [TS]

01:29:03   so when we put a mixer control panel and [TS]

01:29:05   GarageBand we're gonna have knobs you're [TS]

01:29:07   gonna turn them with your little fingers [TS]

01:29:08   because real ones did and even though [TS]

01:29:10   knobs you know that that whole thing and [TS]

01:29:12   or putting big leather flaps on stuff [TS]

01:29:14   and all sorts of stuff like that that [TS]

01:29:16   the leather with the stitching on it [TS]

01:29:18   because real calendar full pages need [TS]

01:29:20   some sort of stitching to all the pages [TS]

01:29:21   and the computer one doesn't but we're [TS]

01:29:23   going to put it there anyway the book [TS]

01:29:24   design for contacts a real contact book [TS]

01:29:26   is a book and you opened it and the [TS]

01:29:27   sides have to be the same size doesn't [TS]

01:29:29   need to be that way in the computer but [TS]

01:29:30   it was all of that supposedly is for [TS]

01:29:38   stolen jobs during and as we discussed [TS]

01:29:40   on the windows 8 show that I couldn't [TS]

01:29:42   find anywhere when I was looking at [TS]

01:29:43   windows 8 when it was introduced and you [TS]

01:29:46   spend enough time staring windows 8 and [TS]

01:29:47   playing with it this is before the [TS]

01:29:49   service just playing with on a desktop [TS]

01:29:50   and stuff like that or even just windows [TS]

01:29:52   phone 7 if you just spend enough time [TS]

01:29:53   with those and then you go back to your [TS]

01:29:55   iOS device it makes the iOS and this is [TS]

01:29:59   iOS 5 back then I think it makes the iOS [TS]

01:30:01   interface look dated it looks dated in [TS]

01:30:04   the way that if you were to boot up your [TS]

01:30:06   current mac into jaguar 10.2 or [TS]

01:30:09   something but the pinstripes would would [TS]

01:30:10   blind you'd be like oh my god how did I [TS]

01:30:12   even use this thing like some of that is [TS]

01:30:16   fashion but some of it is also that it's [TS]

01:30:17   like it's a treatment of its more heavy [TS]

01:30:19   weight it's more to made look like a [TS]

01:30:21   texture like a material and not not that [TS]

01:30:24   I'm saying that Windows 8 is like nicer [TS]

01:30:26   looking or better looking observe one of [TS]

01:30:27   the UI has problems as well but just in [TS]

01:30:30   terms of which one of these you know so [TS]

01:30:32   it's like an analogy current mac west [TS]

01:30:34   you know pinstripes is the current Mac [TS]

01:30:36   os10 as current iOS you know six is two [TS]

01:30:40   as to what it spending time with Windows [TS]

01:30:44   8 it makes windows it look like the [TS]

01:30:47   natural evolution of four get rid of [TS]

01:30:49   these details don't pile more on and [TS]

01:30:50   both the mac and iOS have been sort of [TS]

01:30:52   reversing that where they've been adding [TS]

01:30:54   more texture more materials more more [TS]

01:30:57   stuff that is sort of decorative and [TS]

01:31:00   maybe superfluous or whatever that [TS]

01:31:04   doesn't necessarily the [TS]

01:31:04   that one approach is better than the [TS]

01:31:06   other just that kind of feel that you [TS]

01:31:07   have when you look at like Oh remember [TS]

01:31:09   how Mac os10 used to be and you look at [TS]

01:31:11   that and it feels old that's the way iOS [TS]

01:31:14   feels to current iOS feels to me after [TS]

01:31:16   using Windows 8 so that that's it that's [TS]

01:31:18   you know that something that's in the [TS]

01:31:20   air at least at least I feel I may be [TS]

01:31:22   other people feel different way about [TS]

01:31:23   now jony ive is reportedly against that [TS]

01:31:26   that all those trends and here's his [TS]

01:31:28   interview from may 2012 that I put in [TS]

01:31:30   the Charlotte's the Gruber link to from [TS]

01:31:32   a telegraph in the UK and it's talking [TS]

01:31:35   about skeuomorphism and all stuff like [TS]

01:31:37   that and talk about this is when the [TS]

01:31:39   calendar app had a leather on and stuff [TS]

01:31:41   like that and the interviewer says when [TS]

01:31:43   I mentioned the fake stitching I've [TS]

01:31:45   offers a wince but it's a gesture of [TS]

01:31:47   sympathy rather than a suggestion that [TS]

01:31:48   he just like such things at least that's [TS]

01:31:50   how I read it so the author of his [TS]

01:31:52   articles trying to be charitable and [TS]

01:31:53   saying that I've winces when he mentions [TS]

01:31:55   the leather on the calendar I think it's [TS]

01:31:56   a pretty clear indication that Johnny I [TS]

01:31:57   was not in favor of putting the leather [TS]

01:32:00   and the stitching on the count right but [TS]

01:32:02   he's trying to sell well it's nothing [TS]

01:32:03   doesn't like it it's just that it's not [TS]

01:32:04   simple and so here's the video continues [TS]

01:32:08   that I've refuses to be drawn on the [TS]

01:32:10   matter offering a diplomatic reply and [TS]

01:32:12   this is a quote from I've my focus is [TS]

01:32:14   very much working with other teams on [TS]

01:32:16   products and ideas been developing [TS]

01:32:17   hardware so that's our focus and that's [TS]

01:32:18   our responsibility in terms of those [TS]

01:32:20   elements that you're talking about I'm [TS]

01:32:21   not really connected to that and when [TS]

01:32:23   Gruber posted this exact excerpt on his [TS]

01:32:25   forestall outpost which has the correct [TS]

01:32:28   URL forestall underscore out as Gruber [TS]

01:32:31   says he's connected now is connected now [TS]

01:32:33   well it used to be like oh I'm not [TS]

01:32:35   really connected to the software well [TS]

01:32:36   now you're in charge of the software so [TS]

01:32:38   presumably it's hard to imagine that the [TS]

01:32:41   level of real-world materials [TS]

01:32:43   heavyweight user interface comforting [TS]

01:32:47   decorative things that remind us of [TS]

01:32:49   physical objects that's got to go down [TS]

01:32:50   now it's just got out because if he's [TS]

01:32:52   wincing at like when we just put leather [TS]

01:32:54   on the calendar surely he's not in favor [TS]

01:32:55   of those damn reel-to-reel things [TS]

01:32:58   turning in the podcast app right like [TS]

01:33:00   that is just way over the edge now it [TS]

01:33:03   doesn't mean that you know sudden garage [TS]

01:33:05   bands not gonna have a little fake piano [TS]

01:33:06   on it of course it's going to like this [TS]

01:33:07   appropriate points for these things you [TS]

01:33:09   wanted to have a gorgeous looking fake [TS]

01:33:10   piano or the little the fake drums and [TS]

01:33:12   stuff like that but maybe not for the [TS]

01:33:14   podcast app with a reel-to-reel like [TS]

01:33:16   that is probably over the line and I [TS]

01:33:17   to imagine that the amount of this stuff [TS]

01:33:20   we see and it is two categories of stuff [TS]

01:33:22   it's not just all skeuomorphic the [TS]

01:33:24   skeuomorphism making little virtual [TS]

01:33:25   knobs and stuff and then there's making [TS]

01:33:28   things look like they're made it real [TS]

01:33:29   materials and textured looks and stuff [TS]

01:33:31   like that and that's more of an [TS]

01:33:31   aesthetic thing both of those seem like [TS]

01:33:34   they have to go down with I've and most [TS]

01:33:36   people are happy about that because they [TS]

01:33:38   feel like it's gone too far in the other [TS]

01:33:39   direction I possible dangers with I've [TS]

01:33:42   taking over here judging by his hardware [TS]

01:33:45   I've has a little bit of a tendency to [TS]

01:33:47   make things a bit simpler and cleaner [TS]

01:33:49   than they should be like he you know [TS]

01:33:53   he's enamored with beautiful simple [TS]

01:33:55   elegant designs but at some point you [TS]

01:33:56   also have to use the thing he's always [TS]

01:33:57   trying to balance that to make it usable [TS]

01:33:59   but also beautiful and simple and [TS]

01:34:01   sometimes he goes the wrong way hockey [TS]

01:34:02   puck mouse I'm not sure if he was for or [TS]

01:34:06   against that but he was he was an [TS]

01:34:08   industrial designer an apple when that [TS]

01:34:09   happen Steve Jobs sure loved it maybe he [TS]

01:34:12   told Steve Jobs this little circle mouse [TS]

01:34:13   was just a little concept drawing but [TS]

01:34:15   you can't ship this thing Steve we don't [TS]

01:34:16   know what was going on but the but you [TS]

01:34:19   know you have to assign the hockey puck [TS]

01:34:20   mouse of somebody and he was the [TS]

01:34:21   industrial designer at that point and he [TS]

01:34:23   was behind the imac and all that other [TS]

01:34:24   stuff and they shipped a circular mouse [TS]

01:34:26   it was hard to tell which way was up it [TS]

01:34:27   looked beautiful nice and symmetrical [TS]

01:34:30   and even and you know look it's a [TS]

01:34:31   beautiful circle but horribly key is you [TS]

01:34:33   know they can't be served as you can't [TS]

01:34:35   tell which way is up and you got a feel [TS]

01:34:36   for the cord with your fingers and they [TS]

01:34:38   put a little dent on it and now you're [TS]

01:34:39   caught that must have pained him so much [TS]

01:34:40   like the whole point of the circular [TS]

01:34:41   mounted have a beautiful uniform [TS]

01:34:43   symmetrical thing and you're gonna put a [TS]

01:34:45   divot in my design because people can't [TS]

01:34:47   find the front of it like that must have [TS]

01:34:49   killed him oh also the ports on the [TS]

01:34:52   underside of the cube the ports in the [TS]

01:34:53   back of the imac in the montour it's [TS]

01:34:55   like well you don't want all these [TS]

01:34:56   things to be visible somewhere we want [TS]

01:34:57   the ports to be in the back so you can [TS]

01:34:59   route all the cables through our little [TS]

01:35:00   hole on the stand on the imac in it but [TS]

01:35:02   if you're constantly plugging and [TS]

01:35:03   plugging stuff any pc vendor would have [TS]

01:35:05   put at least one port facing forward or [TS]

01:35:06   one port on the side for practical [TS]

01:35:08   reasons and I've comes down on the other [TS]

01:35:10   side of it's not elegant it's not [TS]

01:35:11   beautiful it's ugly to have those things [TS]

01:35:13   visible I want them all on the back or [TS]

01:35:15   on the cube I want them all on the [TS]

01:35:17   underside even if it's more difficult to [TS]

01:35:18   like reach around the back your computer [TS]

01:35:20   and feel where the things are and stick [TS]

01:35:22   them in there so he does tend to on the [TS]

01:35:27   hardware side anyway go a little bit too [TS]

01:35:29   far in the direction of elegance and [TS]

01:35:30   simplicity [TS]

01:35:31   without perhaps as much thought towards [TS]

01:35:34   how you're actually gonna use this thing [TS]

01:35:35   like if you think about things that are [TS]

01:35:37   done the opposite way like oxxo was a [TS]

01:35:39   good example especially in the past now [TS]

01:35:40   maybe they're losing the plot a little [TS]

01:35:42   bit but back in the day oxxo made [TS]

01:35:45   products for people with arthritis if [TS]

01:35:46   you have difficulty you know opening a [TS]

01:35:49   can with a can opener are using some of [TS]

01:35:51   the tool we're gonna make tools that are [TS]

01:35:52   specially designed for people who have [TS]

01:35:53   you know disabilities with their hands [TS]

01:35:55   and those things things that are made to [TS]

01:35:59   be you know all we care about is can you [TS]

01:36:01   use this thing with the least amount of [TS]

01:36:03   effort with the most mechanical [TS]

01:36:04   efficiency with you know without it [TS]

01:36:06   being slippery without requiring fine [TS]

01:36:08   motor skills without require a lot of [TS]

01:36:09   strength those things are ugly is sin [TS]

01:36:11   like they're not beautiful looking as we [TS]

01:36:13   said on the game controller episode you [TS]

01:36:15   know the negative space created by a [TS]

01:36:17   gripping or poking or whatever hand is [TS]

01:36:19   ugly it's not it's not attractive but if [TS]

01:36:23   all you care about is ergonomics you end [TS]

01:36:25   up with things that are great to use [TS]

01:36:26   like the old ox 0 stuff but do not look [TS]

01:36:28   elegant at all are not nice looking our [TS]

01:36:30   awkward strange really weird but that's [TS]

01:36:33   not what you're focusing on uh I've [TS]

01:36:36   stuff has not been like that I've stuff [TS]

01:36:38   is not like ox oh it's been more like [TS]

01:36:40   you know the monolith in 2010 you know [TS]

01:36:43   all these designs are just remove [TS]

01:36:44   everything already tails are gone also I [TS]

01:36:47   guess make it so that you know it you [TS]

01:36:49   could hold it in your hand or whatever [TS]

01:36:50   but if there's a line there's a balance [TS]

01:36:53   between those two ends of the spectrum [TS]

01:36:54   he has been way over on the visual [TS]

01:36:57   simplicity and physical simplicity is [TS]

01:37:00   more important than ergonomics does that [TS]

01:37:02   have an analog in the soccer world maybe [TS]

01:37:05   there's a lot of reading the tea leaves [TS]

01:37:07   about this I've seen on Twitter and on [TS]

01:37:09   app.net in the past few days one of them [TS]

01:37:11   is a people bring up hives wardrobe that [TS]

01:37:13   apparently the clothing designer that he [TS]

01:37:15   likes doesn't necessarily reflect Jesus [TS]

01:37:17   g-star I don't know what that is do you [TS]

01:37:19   know what that is that is the clothing [TS]

01:37:21   manufacturer now I don't know that he [TS]

01:37:24   likes the clothing manufacturer I know [TS]

01:37:26   that he wears the g star t-shirts I'm [TS]

01:37:28   I'm I'm not saying that he doesn't like [TS]

01:37:30   the clothing manufacturer I'm just [TS]

01:37:32   saying that he's always picture he [TS]

01:37:34   always wears the same g-star t-shirt in [TS]

01:37:38   a variety of different neutral colors [TS]

01:37:40   and his famously pointed out that if you [TS]

01:37:44   go to the Apple [TS]

01:37:45   well you know page the appeal executive [TS]

01:37:48   committee or the you know like their [TS]

01:37:50   page that has all the executive people [TS]

01:37:53   on it that he is the only one there who [TS]

01:37:55   is wearing I he may be the only one in a [TS]

01:37:58   t-shirt but he's the only one who's [TS]

01:37:59   clothing has a logo on it and is the g [TS]

01:38:01   star logo just above the cuff of his [TS]

01:38:05   sleeve a short sleeve shirt and I don't [TS]

01:38:09   I don't know if the other garments that [TS]

01:38:13   he wears are also g-star or if it's just [TS]

01:38:15   the t-shirt that's g-star and you know [TS]

01:38:18   like I've got a shirt on from banana [TS]

01:38:21   republic that doesn't mean that I like [TS]

01:38:23   banana republic or that I don't like [TS]

01:38:24   banana republic or that all my t-shirts [TS]

01:38:26   are color clothing and from there it [TS]

01:38:29   just means I'm wearing a banana republic [TS]

01:38:31   shirt today and I think that's probably [TS]

01:38:33   people people seem to think that he [TS]

01:38:36   likes the manufacturer for some reason I [TS]

01:38:38   don't know why this is well regardless [TS]

01:38:41   of the clothing manufacturer and I know [TS]

01:38:42   nothing about building your friend she [TS]

01:38:44   start really previously established jisa [TS]

01:38:46   his physical outward appearance [TS]

01:38:49   especially post head shaving as [TS]

01:38:51   reflected as men osha's get rid of [TS]

01:38:55   everything extra it has matched his [TS]

01:38:57   devices like yeah Johnny I of the [TS]

01:38:59   physical manifestation that we know from [TS]

01:39:01   like a little you know videos and stuff [TS]

01:39:02   is like simple clean not a lot of [TS]

01:39:06   ornamentation you don't need the hair [TS]

01:39:08   anymore just we started from the [TS]

01:39:10   beginning and rethought the head we said [TS]

01:39:12   what is this do we need hair no we don't [TS]

01:39:16   need it like so that lends itself to the [TS]

01:39:19   idea that that his tastes and hardware [TS]

01:39:22   transferred to other realms now someone [TS]

01:39:24   I think it was Nevin Mergen put a link [TS]

01:39:26   into what is supposedly I of Johnny odds [TS]

01:39:28   car apparently he bought drives a [TS]

01:39:30   bentley brooklands now first of all he's [TS]

01:39:32   driving a Bentley because I'm assuming [TS]

01:39:34   because he was born in the UK because if [TS]

01:39:35   you're just picking cars based on the [TS]

01:39:37   quality of the cars from an automotive [TS]

01:39:38   perspective Bentley's are beautifully [TS]

01:39:40   built but not really you know about [TS]

01:39:42   handling or performance or modern [TS]

01:39:44   anything really ah and I put a link to [TS]

01:39:48   this post in the show note that has a [TS]

01:39:49   shot of the Interior and the interior of [TS]

01:39:51   a Bentley does not look like an imac it [TS]

01:39:53   does not look like jony ive's wardrobe [TS]

01:39:55   it is filled with chrome and leather and [TS]

01:39:57   it looks it looks more like an [TS]

01:39:59   ios6 application looks like find my [TS]

01:40:00   friends right and that that's you know [TS]

01:40:02   it is that is counter to jony ive's [TS]

01:40:05   hardware taste and apparently his [TS]

01:40:06   wardrobe taste but he's chosen this car [TS]

01:40:09   and apparently he likes this car and I [TS]

01:40:11   point this out just to to highlight the [TS]

01:40:13   idea that it's not safe to assume that a [TS]

01:40:16   person's taste in one area extends to [TS]

01:40:18   all other areas of his life and example [TS]

01:40:20   the spring to mind for me is we all know [TS]

01:40:22   somebody who's like a crazy Stanley [TS]

01:40:25   Kubrick superfan and not specifically [TS]

01:40:26   talking about Gruber but it's any better [TS]

01:40:28   we all know someone who's like into [TS]

01:40:28   Stanley Kubrick but Stanley Kubrick [TS]

01:40:31   superfans don't all have meticulously [TS]

01:40:33   arranged houses with spare furniture [TS]

01:40:36   arrangements and vast expanses of clean [TS]

01:40:38   white walls it is entirely normal for [TS]

01:40:41   you to be a huge fan of apple devices or [TS]

01:40:43   Stanley Kubrick or anything else with a [TS]

01:40:45   very particular aesthetic and till when [TS]

01:40:47   you live your life to just have dirty [TS]

01:40:49   laundry everywhere and your house is a [TS]

01:40:51   mess or maybe you're even a hoarder who [TS]

01:40:52   knows like there it doesn't just figure [TS]

01:40:54   you have taste in one area doesn't mean [TS]

01:40:55   it transfers the area so that's why I [TS]

01:40:57   want to warn against looking at Johnny [TS]

01:40:59   ABS wardrobe and how he does hardware [TS]

01:41:01   and stuff like that and saying therefore [TS]

01:41:04   his software is going to look like his [TS]

01:41:05   Hardware because I know there are plenty [TS]

01:41:07   of places in my life where I have a [TS]

01:41:08   particular taste and that does not [TS]

01:41:10   transfer at all to other parts of my [TS]

01:41:12   life like you know I don't cook like I [TS]

01:41:14   program I don't program like I keep [TS]

01:41:16   house like it's just people very good at [TS]

01:41:18   compartmentalizing things and yeah [TS]

01:41:19   hardware and software might seem like [TS]

01:41:20   they're related but I think you know it [TS]

01:41:23   I think there Johnny I was much more of [TS]

01:41:26   a wild card in the software around the [TS]

01:41:27   only thing that gives me reassurances if [TS]

01:41:30   the story about him having a big [TS]

01:41:31   influence of the original iOS version of [TS]

01:41:33   iOS is true then that gives us Dean ok [TS]

01:41:35   now we know a little bit about of [TS]

01:41:36   software taste and i and i like it i [TS]

01:41:37   think most people would like it so in [TS]

01:41:40   the end i think i've taken over for a [TS]

01:41:42   human interface I think we'll see less [TS]

01:41:46   of the textured and the skeuomorphic [TS]

01:41:48   stuff and I am cautiously optimistic [TS]

01:41:51   about it but I think there is definitely [TS]

01:41:53   someone certain to there and everyone's [TS]

01:41:56   talk about how soon will we see [TS]

01:41:57   something that reflects these tastes I [TS]

01:41:58   don't know I mean there's certainly [TS]

01:42:00   thinks he can do short term that are [TS]

01:42:01   fast but like certainly by like 10 9 [TS]

01:42:05   maybe maybe 10 9 Joe that certainly [TS]

01:42:08   about iOS 7 I feel like iOS 7 comes out [TS]

01:42:11   that should have jony ive's fingerprint [TS]

01:42:14   on on the UI not just the look of it but [TS]

01:42:16   how it works and you know whether he's [TS]

01:42:18   move settings around and change the UI's [TS]

01:42:20   of the application and stuff like that [TS]

01:42:21   then we'll know what we should be [TS]

01:42:24   complaining about with him maybe I'll [TS]

01:42:25   make things too simple and remove a [TS]

01:42:26   bunch of options because he didn't think [TS]

01:42:27   they were necessary and people will be [TS]

01:42:29   angry or maybe he'll just look I make [TS]

01:42:30   everything look much nicer I don't so [TS]

01:42:33   cautiously optimistic on him Eddy Cue [TS]

01:42:35   he's taking over Syrian maps so he gets [TS]

01:42:39   that like you know since far stall [TS]

01:42:41   exploded and the pieces get distributed [TS]

01:42:43   so the piece about user interface I've [TS]

01:42:46   gets that the Syrian maps thing Eddy Cue [TS]

01:42:48   takes over that and he's kind of the [TS]

01:42:49   fixer it seems like for antman as a [TS]

01:42:51   server side component he took over from [TS]

01:42:52   mobileme I believe in the past and that [TS]

01:42:56   was just such a cluster and like you [TS]

01:42:58   would think I'll man you don't want to [TS]

01:42:59   be that executive like this is a big [TS]

01:43:01   mess and jobs is angry and he comes all [TS]

01:43:02   right you take over and you fix that and [TS]

01:43:03   it's like you know that's pressure right [TS]

01:43:05   but he rose to that I guess you would [TS]

01:43:08   say and came up with icloud which for [TS]

01:43:09   what you may say about it is certainly [TS]

01:43:11   better than mobilni was certainly a more [TS]

01:43:13   compelling product but still has his own [TS]

01:43:15   problems he's in charge Siri maps itunes [TS]

01:43:18   store the bookstore iCloud itunes match [TS]

01:43:22   his record is ok he's probably the guy [TS]

01:43:28   with the best record inside Apple at [TS]

01:43:30   doing online services but as we've [TS]

01:43:32   discussed many many times in pet shows [TS]

01:43:35   out this is still not Apple strength [TS]

01:43:37   iTunes Match as an example I enable that [TS]

01:43:39   I think I talked about this in Apache I [TS]

01:43:40   enabled that recently it didn't work the [TS]

01:43:43   first several times I tried it were just [TS]

01:43:44   grind for a long time then failed an [TS]

01:43:46   obscure error then it finally worked but [TS]

01:43:47   then some tracks expla khalif ailed to [TS]

01:43:50   upload and there's no real visibility [TS]

01:43:52   into whether it's working or not and [TS]

01:43:53   we've all heard about iCloud woes [TS]

01:43:55   Merlin's talked about in his shows and I [TS]

01:43:57   can do flaky things and you really have [TS]

01:43:59   no recourse you don't know why it's not [TS]

01:44:00   working you just sit there and hope and [TS]

01:44:02   pray that it works again you know if the [TS]

01:44:03   server the client or both Game Center [TS]

01:44:06   recently we're all playing letterpress [TS]

01:44:07   are you pointing letterpress oh yeah [TS]

01:44:09   you're not playing plenum press with me [TS]

01:44:11   anyway I'm cuz yeah I don't know how to [TS]

01:44:12   get you on there yeah that's the problem [TS]

01:44:14   this problem Game Center speaking of [TS]

01:44:15   online services it shouldn't be easier [TS]

01:44:17   for like me to find you and to send you [TS]

01:44:19   a request and stuff like that it's like [TS]

01:44:20   it'll even look at R address book and if [TS]

01:44:22   you used it you know like a different [TS]

01:44:24   account then [TS]

01:44:24   the one that I have you down for oh well [TS]

01:44:27   yeah like I I there's plenty people who [TS]

01:44:29   I know their email address i know the [TS]

01:44:31   twitter address i know them personally [TS]

01:44:32   and yet i can't find them in kingston [TS]

01:44:33   i'm adding you right now there yep I'm [TS]

01:44:36   and you should be able to add them by [TS]

01:44:37   username like you can pick a username [TS]

01:44:39   for game son I can tell you what my user [TS]

01:44:40   it's just my name you know John Serkis [TS]

01:44:42   with space in the middle but you can't [TS]

01:44:44   add based on that anyway letterpress [TS]

01:44:46   seem to from external appearances crush [TS]

01:44:49   game center just like the matchmaking [TS]

01:44:50   thing like when the game came out it was [TS]

01:44:52   very popular this is a Victor's new word [TS]

01:44:55   matching game that a lot of publicity in [TS]

01:44:57   the macworld but come on how big could [TS]

01:44:58   it are really bent like it's not like [TS]

01:45:00   words with friends Calvary yeah and our [TS]

01:45:02   little nerd circles were all popular [TS]

01:45:03   yeah I know I was like the number one [TS]

01:45:05   and number two paid app for the first [TS]

01:45:07   day or whatever but that's like a nerd [TS]

01:45:09   bump I feel like you know my mother [TS]

01:45:10   doesn't know what letterpress is but my [TS]

01:45:11   mother knows what words with friends is [TS]

01:45:13   you know and it's not angry birds level [TS]

01:45:14   and yet because it used game center as [TS]

01:45:16   its back end it you know and maybe game [TS]

01:45:18   center had been used that much or hadn't [TS]

01:45:19   been tested it kind of fell over and [TS]

01:45:21   that that's embarrassing for Apple [TS]

01:45:22   Google still does all this stuff better [TS]

01:45:25   an apple still does not seem to have a [TS]

01:45:28   server-side culture and we've talked [TS]

01:45:31   about in past shows what other companies [TS]

01:45:32   do but at this point I think we have to [TS]

01:45:34   say with iCloud an itunes match and Game [TS]

01:45:36   Center like all these things that Apple [TS]

01:45:38   is doing at this point Apple really [TS]

01:45:41   should be doing what all the other big [TS]

01:45:42   guys do before I was contrasting it and [TS]

01:45:45   saying here's what Google does here so [TS]

01:45:46   the Facebook dog and apple doesn't do [TS]

01:45:48   that and how can they ever be as good as [TS]

01:45:49   that but now Apple has so many things [TS]

01:45:51   online and so many essential important [TS]

01:45:53   parts that I cloud is essential for iOS [TS]

01:45:55   which is its money maker right and [TS]

01:45:56   iTunes Match an itunes store like and [TS]

01:45:59   you know even things like Game Center [TS]

01:46:00   this is you know the Apple is as much an [TS]

01:46:03   online service company at this point as [TS]

01:46:05   something like Google practically Apple [TS]

01:46:07   this point should be building its own [TS]

01:46:09   servers writing some of its own server [TS]

01:46:11   side infrastructure saw we're doing all [TS]

01:46:13   the things that Facebook Amazon and [TS]

01:46:15   Google do in the Apple as far as me out [TS]

01:46:17   does not do Apple should not be using [TS]

01:46:19   when Windows Azure at which it [TS]

01:46:21   reportedly was it should not be leaning [TS]

01:46:23   on oracle and EMC to solve its problems [TS]

01:46:25   it really has to get a server-side [TS]

01:46:28   culture I mean just steal Google's [TS]

01:46:31   entire operation team and pay them [TS]

01:46:32   gazillions of dollars you got but if I [TS]

01:46:34   had to say what should Apple do with its [TS]

01:46:36   building some dollars i mean maybe they [TS]

01:46:37   can't buy these guys [TS]

01:46:38   but in the fantasy world where that [TS]

01:46:40   money could transfer into getting [TS]

01:46:42   Google's entire operations and that's [TS]

01:46:43   what Apple would need if they could if [TS]

01:46:44   applicant wish one things into existence [TS]

01:46:46   it would be give us a server-side [TS]

01:46:47   operations team as good as Google or [TS]

01:46:50   maybe even Amazon's because both of [TS]

01:46:51   those guys you know and Facebook is kind [TS]

01:46:54   of just slap things together but like [TS]

01:46:55   even Twitter even Twitter's has even [TS]

01:46:58   with all the fail whale stuff has like [TS]

01:47:00   seemed to get its act together and [TS]

01:47:02   apples still after all this time doesn't [TS]

01:47:05   have its act together so Eddy Cue still [TS]

01:47:07   has a smart cut out for him uh and i [TS]

01:47:10   think i think it's a cultural thing more [TS]

01:47:12   than like oh this one executive can snap [TS]

01:47:14   his fingers make this happen it's got to [TS]

01:47:17   be some kind of change its going to [TS]

01:47:18   happen inside Apple to to recognize that [TS]

01:47:20   you're not the company than X iphones [TS]

01:47:22   and ipads or the company that spends [TS]

01:47:24   half its resources doing this invisible [TS]

01:47:26   server side stuff that you don't think [TS]

01:47:28   it is important that you just want to go [TS]

01:47:29   away that you just want to pay a vendor [TS]

01:47:30   to do but you can't because this is now [TS]

01:47:32   a core competency of your company and [TS]

01:47:34   you got it you got to get handle on it [TS]

01:47:35   frustrating craig federighi will now [TS]

01:47:43   lead both iOS and OS 10 / trance early [TS]

01:47:47   the guy who used to be in charge of just [TS]

01:47:49   OS 10 he was the OS 10 guy when [TS]

01:47:51   Forrestal was the iOS guy but Ron [TS]

01:47:53   retired in an actual you know not [TS]

01:47:56   retired from working but left Apple on [TS]

01:47:58   good terms of his own accord went off to [TS]

01:48:01   do his own interesting things and start [TS]

01:48:02   his own startups and do stuff like that [TS]

01:48:04   uh and he endorsed on his way out the [TS]

01:48:08   door endorsed credit craig federighi as [TS]

01:48:10   his successor uh and so federighi is [TS]

01:48:14   coming in he was super nervous in this [TS]

01:48:16   first time he was in a keynote with his [TS]

01:48:17   hand shaking on the mouse trying to [TS]

01:48:19   demonstrate gestures be out so yeah [TS]

01:48:20   coming to his own like this is all we [TS]

01:48:23   see it as executive it's so hard to like [TS]

01:48:24   you're gonna talk about an executor and [TS]

01:48:25   all you're gonna talk about is the 10 [TS]

01:48:26   minutes they were on stage but that's [TS]

01:48:28   all we see them like we see them when [TS]

01:48:29   they do keynotes and does not be shaken [TS]

01:48:31   when you're up there yeah but he you [TS]

01:48:33   know that that's our proxy for judging [TS]

01:48:35   how he's doing inside the company in the [TS]

01:48:36   beginning you know that's those are big [TS]

01:48:38   shoes to fill and then but now like in [TS]

01:48:42   the most recent one he's got the hair [TS]

01:48:44   force one joke which worked well for him [TS]

01:48:46   and he's getting the personality and [TS]

01:48:48   people started to like him when he seems [TS]

01:48:49   more confident so he's in charge of [TS]

01:48:50   Austin [TS]

01:48:51   uh it always tends technical stewardship [TS]

01:48:54   I think this is a complete list maybe [TS]

01:48:56   I'm missing some of the year but start [TS]

01:48:58   off with avi tuve nyan in the beginning [TS]

01:48:59   and then he retired to become a venture [TS]

01:49:03   capitalist so let's say you know an [TS]

01:49:04   amicable parting of ways but Ron's early [TS]

01:49:06   took over there and then he went off to [TS]

01:49:08   do his startup thing Amika parting of [TS]

01:49:10   ways and he hands it off to Craig [TS]

01:49:12   federighi who's the current guy all [TS]

01:49:14   those people are X next guys which maybe [TS]

01:49:16   is not that surprising given the sort of [TS]

01:49:18   inverse takeover of next of Apple you [TS]

01:49:20   know of Apple by next but it basically [TS]

01:49:25   means that there's never been a from the [TS]

01:49:28   beginning quote-unquote mac guy in [TS]

01:49:29   charge of mac OS 10 it's always been [TS]

01:49:31   next guys and there's a little bit of a [TS]

01:49:33   checkered history there especially back [TS]

01:49:34   in the day where the people who just [TS]

01:49:37   became a creatures recently probably [TS]

01:49:38   don't remember this but there was a big [TS]

01:49:41   tension between the Apple guys and the [TS]

01:49:42   next guys about what you should do with [TS]

01:49:44   the next generation operating system one [TS]

01:49:47   infamous incident from 2003 involving [TS]

01:49:51   avi to manian was the the tech note 2034 [TS]

01:49:55   kerfuffle this I put a link to Gruber's [TS]

01:49:58   post about it at the time called the [TS]

01:50:01   good the bad and the avi technote 2034 [TS]

01:50:04   Gruber describes it as being so [TS]

01:50:06   inflammatory and in places so ludicrous [TS]

01:50:08   that Apple withdrew it after howls of [TS]

01:50:10   derision from professional Mac [TS]

01:50:11   developers it's interesting to go back [TS]

01:50:14   and look at these things now so I he has [TS]

01:50:16   gruber thoughtfully has a link to the [TS]

01:50:18   PDF of this which I put in the show [TS]

01:50:19   notes you can actually read this because [TS]

01:50:20   ambil did remove this technote from its [TS]

01:50:22   side and tech notes are like technical [TS]

01:50:24   documents for developers like why would [TS]

01:50:26   you ever have to remove one so this one [TS]

01:50:27   was written by supposedly substantially [TS]

01:50:30   written by a bee demeaning himself the [TS]

01:50:32   next guy in charge of what was supposed [TS]

01:50:33   to be the next Mac operating system [TS]

01:50:34   which had all the mac users all and huff [TS]

01:50:37   and here are some of the crazy ludicrous [TS]

01:50:39   things that it's it avoid using resource [TS]

01:50:41   Forks and you know Mac was intended to [TS]

01:50:43   be an excellent web citizen don't use [TS]

01:50:45   resource works they're not supported by [TS]

01:50:46   web dev NFS SMB blah blah blah you know [TS]

01:50:49   hfs+ still supports them but don't do [TS]

01:50:51   that anymore use file extensions stead [TS]

01:50:54   of sync file name extension CSS file [TS]

01:50:56   extensions if your application creates [TS]

01:50:58   documents those documents should be [TS]

01:50:59   saved with the filename extension [TS]

01:51:00   because I much more durable and blah [TS]

01:51:01   blah blah don't use type creatorcode [TS]

01:51:05   codes are these don't rely on them [TS]

01:51:06   investigate using paths based file [TS]

01:51:09   system API it's not even very forceful [TS]

01:51:11   you should really investigate those [TS]

01:51:12   paths based file system API Isis paths [TS]

01:51:15   revised native access to files and I go [TS]

01:51:17   is 10 all other mechanisms like FS refs [TS]

01:51:19   and FS specs which are various [TS]

01:51:21   structures from the old Mac world that [TS]

01:51:22   lets you track a file independent of its [TS]

01:51:24   path on disk like their unique [TS]

01:51:26   identifier or some combination of this [TS]

01:51:27   stuff says all those things are built on [TS]

01:51:29   top of pests and therefore encourage [TS]

01:51:31   some performance cost this costs can be [TS]

01:51:33   considerable when converting back and [TS]

01:51:34   forth between past so you're saying [TS]

01:51:35   don't you use just Pat string you know [TS]

01:51:38   string path / whatever / whatever don't [TS]

01:51:40   use these higher level constructs that [TS]

01:51:42   are more durable because there's a [TS]

01:51:43   performance cost of doing these things [TS]

01:51:44   he says cocoa is the quickest way to [TS]

01:51:46   develop a mangosteen application so you [TS]

01:51:49   should totally use cocoa that's a slight [TS]

01:51:51   at carbon which was the transitional API [TS]

01:51:53   but at that time was basically the Mac [TS]

01:51:56   API in the form they ran in Mac OS 10 be [TS]

01:51:59   judicious about using C++ for new [TS]

01:52:01   development he slammed C++ in a very [TS]

01:52:04   cautious way saying a low c plus so c++ [TS]

01:52:07   provides several attractive features [TS]

01:52:08   especially for application developers [TS]

01:52:10   experience has shown that it also [TS]

01:52:12   presents a couple of risks to be guarded [TS]

01:52:13   against and goes through fragile base [TS]

01:52:15   class stuff and all all the areas where [TS]

01:52:17   objector seems better than C++ saying [TS]

01:52:19   maybe think real hard about doing that [TS]

01:52:20   uh and this technote that i read that [TS]

01:52:24   probably sounds either nonsensical are [TS]

01:52:26   certainly not crazy or ludicrous was [TS]

01:52:28   pulled because of the backlash from the [TS]

01:52:30   then big community of existing Mac [TS]

01:52:31   developers who were suspicious of this [TS]

01:52:33   whole crazy next world they're like [TS]

01:52:34   you're telling me all the crap that I do [TS]

01:52:35   to make mac apps is terrible and you [TS]

01:52:37   want me to use your next stuff and let [TS]

01:52:39   me tell you while your next stuff is [TS]

01:52:40   terrible and so that was like a PR [TS]

01:52:42   problem they pulled that techno so I [TS]

01:52:43   think to this day it goes like twenty [TS]

01:52:45   thirty three and twenty thirty five [TS]

01:52:46   twenty thirty four is gone but many of [TS]

01:52:49   the things that I be recommended [TS]

01:52:50   actually came to past filename [TS]

01:52:52   extensions are used everywhere in Mac OS [TS]

01:52:54   10 now resource fork is deprecated [TS]

01:52:56   carbon stopped at 32-bit did not [TS]

01:52:59   continue into 64 bit it's basically gone [TS]

01:53:00   not gone but you know on its way out so [TS]

01:53:03   Coco was the way to do you know he was [TS]

01:53:05   right you should use cocoa to do that [TS]

01:53:06   stuff not all the things that came to [TS]

01:53:09   pass aren't necessarily good things that [TS]

01:53:11   in particular I think the filename [TS]

01:53:12   extension thing was a big mistake and [TS]

01:53:13   they could have done a better compromise [TS]

01:53:15   they're not by using resource Forks not [TS]

01:53:17   by using H of [TS]

01:53:18   type creator codes but simply by making [TS]

01:53:20   a new canonical representation of file [TS]

01:53:22   type information and merely having the [TS]

01:53:25   file extend filename extension be [TS]

01:53:26   reflection of that anyway I've discussed [TS]

01:53:27   this at length with Barry's people at [TS]

01:53:30   many times that ship has sailed Pat's [TS]

01:53:33   instead of FS refs and I vest specs that [TS]

01:53:36   was just plain bad advice and luckily [TS]

01:53:38   that one didn't come to pass because [TS]

01:53:39   paths are not as durable and those you [TS]

01:53:42   know those things have a performance or [TS]

01:53:43   bread yes they do have a performance [TS]

01:53:44   overhead but in the grand scheme of [TS]

01:53:46   things it's much better to have a higher [TS]

01:53:47   level construct it keeps track of where [TS]

01:53:49   your files are regardless of their path [TS]

01:53:50   and Coco does have that now and carbon [TS]

01:53:53   had it earlier and so on so forth so [TS]

01:53:55   that was bad advice but in general the [TS]

01:53:58   things he was recommending were like he [TS]

01:54:00   was ahead of everyone else in saying oh [TS]

01:54:02   this is the way things are gonna happen [TS]

01:54:03   this is what its gonna look like in the [TS]

01:54:04   future you should start doing this now [TS]

01:54:06   and Mac Mac developers didn't want to [TS]

01:54:07   hear and I think on the most part it was [TS]

01:54:11   good advice and he was right but there [TS]

01:54:12   are a few things in there under his [TS]

01:54:14   stewardship they were wrong and had long [TS]

01:54:16   lasting effects on the operating system [TS]

01:54:19   like waiting so long to get a good [TS]

01:54:20   construct in Cocoa that keeps track of [TS]

01:54:23   files as well as the old carbon api's [TS]

01:54:24   did was bad and made cocoa applications [TS]

01:54:26   look worse than they should have been in [TS]

01:54:28   the early days of cocoa and it was just [TS]

01:54:30   needlessly antagonistic because he was [TS]

01:54:32   just wrong on that like it you have to [TS]

01:54:34   have an API to keep track of stuff don't [TS]

01:54:35   investigate file-based paths you know [TS]

01:54:37   and c++ now that's come and gone but the [TS]

01:54:41   Apple is of two minds about c++ I would [TS]

01:54:45   say he was mostly right on that one per [TS]

01:54:48   transfer lays rain was much less [TS]

01:54:49   controversial for better or worse the [TS]

01:54:52   decisions that avi made that stuck [TS]

01:54:54   continued when Searle a was there uh you [TS]

01:54:58   know there wasn't any big reversal [TS]

01:54:59   anything like that the big thing that [TS]

01:55:01   I'm going to land at the feet of [TS]

01:55:03   Bertrand is the file system crisis which [TS]

01:55:06   was that hfs+ is old and crappy and they [TS]

01:55:08   need something new and that was [TS]

01:55:10   acknowledged and they were gonna go with [TS]

01:55:11   ZFS but then it didn't work that was you [TS]

01:55:13   know he couldn't it just didn't get that [TS]

01:55:16   done in his in his reign it's something [TS]

01:55:17   that still needs to be done he made a [TS]

01:55:19   good effort at it and just didn't work [TS]

01:55:21   out with a ZFS thing which is a shame [TS]

01:55:22   maybe that was more core OS and not some [TS]

01:55:24   what I think that falls under silliest [TS]

01:55:26   thing but yeah I think that is the if [TS]

01:55:28   you got to say what in general nag was [TS]

01:55:31   tended great [TS]

01:55:32   under Sir lay you know that was it sort [TS]

01:55:33   of salad days speaking of past show [TS]

01:55:35   titles uh everything about it got better [TS]

01:55:38   everything about it improved and it was [TS]

01:55:41   all all roses except for the file system [TS]

01:55:43   thing which just didn't get solved and [TS]

01:55:45   still not solved Cora storage helps but [TS]

01:55:48   it's not a new file system um is a [TS]

01:55:51   little thing I putting the show it's [TS]

01:55:52   from o malli' qoran Malachi like to say [TS]

01:55:55   um that I think that's wrong I think [TS]

01:55:57   it's yeah i think it's um I like ohm I [TS]

01:55:59   don't know the meditating it's [TS]

01:56:02   meditative yeah and this is one of those [TS]

01:56:05   you know finding sources from inside [TS]

01:56:07   Apple about Forrestal and so on and so [TS]

01:56:09   forth but this section is about [TS]

01:56:10   Federalist many feel that Craig [TS]

01:56:11   federighi federighi who's taking over [TS]

01:56:13   for our souls job in addition to [TS]

01:56:14   overseeing the mac OS software business [TS]

01:56:16   if someone who needs to prove himself he [TS]

01:56:18   is not a decisive his Forrestal not as [TS]

01:56:21   decisive end divisive is forestall so [TS]

01:56:22   you know by many accounts Forrestal like [TS]

01:56:27   jobs i can imagine had many adherence [TS]

01:56:29   within the company who are very devoted [TS]

01:56:30   to him and now they've had their leader [TS]

01:56:32   taken from them violently like he didn't [TS]

01:56:34   leave on his own they fired him those [TS]

01:56:36   people are cranky and craig federighi [TS]

01:56:38   the guy who used to just be in charge of [TS]

01:56:39   mac OS 10 is now in charge of both mac [TS]

01:56:41   OS 10 and iOS things gonna oh here's [TS]

01:56:43   your new daddy iOS developers and sis [TS]

01:56:45   federighi you might not even know and i [TS]

01:56:47   can imagine him having a little bit of [TS]

01:56:48   uphill battle to get buy-in from all [TS]

01:56:50   those guys especially the guys who were [TS]

01:56:51   forced all forestall loyalists uh but [TS]

01:56:56   overall I'm very optimistic about him [TS]

01:56:58   particularly because for tron gives him [TS]

01:57:01   the thumb