96: Blue Peter


00:00:00   as a wise man once said Dan don't give a [TS]

00:00:03   date that leads to the dark side this is [TS]

00:00:09   hypercritical a weekly talk show [TS]

00:00:10   ruminating on exactly what is wrong in [TS]

00:00:12   the world of Apple and related [TS]

00:00:13   technologies and businesses nothing is [TS]

00:00:15   so perfect that it can't be complained [TS]

00:00:17   about by my friend and your host John [TS]

00:00:19   siracusa I'm Dan Benjamin today is [TS]

00:00:22   Friday November 30th 2012 this is [TS]

00:00:25   episode number 96 and there are only a [TS]

00:00:28   hundred only a few left to go I know [TS]

00:00:33   like to say thanks very much to our [TS]

00:00:35   three sponsors koku over koku app com [TS]

00:00:39   shutterstock.com and source bits dot-com [TS]

00:00:43   and we'll tell you more about those as [TS]

00:00:44   the program continues I also like to say [TS]

00:00:47   thank you very much to my node there are [TS]

00:00:50   bandwidth sponsor for the whole month of [TS]

00:00:52   November there an intuitive mind mapping [TS]

00:00:54   app for mac and iOS whether you're [TS]

00:00:57   brainstorming for your next project [TS]

00:00:58   organizing your life or planning your [TS]

00:00:59   vacation my node lets you collect [TS]

00:01:01   structure and expand your ideas that I [TS]

00:01:04   cloud sharing they got it all check them [TS]

00:01:06   out at my node com hi John Oh Dan how is [TS]

00:01:13   everything going just fine I didn't see [TS]

00:01:16   you online I was worried no you are [TS]

00:01:17   Miriam you're hiding I'm hiding in plain [TS]

00:01:23   sight is they say yep all right a lot of [TS]

00:01:28   notes on today's show I can't tell when [TS]

00:01:31   I have a lot of notes if it will be long [TS]

00:01:32   or short but I do have a lot of notes so [TS]

00:01:35   we better get going let's do it what [TS]

00:01:38   should we start with do you think why I [TS]

00:01:40   am not privy to your notes so I I don't [TS]

00:01:42   know we start with follow-up dan what do [TS]

00:01:45   you think oh well I don't I love [TS]

00:01:47   follow-up I love the follow-up segment [TS]

00:01:50   alright first bit of fall is about the [TS]

00:01:54   wii u we talked about in the past couple [TS]

00:01:57   sure now let me I have an announcement [TS]

00:01:58   to make alright already already a wii u [TS]

00:02:01   a black deluxe wii u is winging its way [TS]

00:02:06   to you hopefully for arrival to you next [TS]

00:02:09   week well that's excellent dan thank you [TS]

00:02:12   very much and thank you do whoever hell [TS]

00:02:13   to source that that will remain a secret [TS]

00:02:17   until later my secret benefactor that's [TS]

00:02:21   right I mean I'm the benefactor but they [TS]

00:02:24   were the middleman and they will be they [TS]

00:02:28   will be well compensated for their [TS]

00:02:29   efforts or middle woman middle and [TS]

00:02:31   middle man okay it's fifty percent [TS]

00:02:34   forty-nine percent of the population [TS]

00:02:35   ruled in 51% ruled out so once this [TS]

00:02:40   arrives I'll have to immediately unpack [TS]

00:02:42   it and set it up and try to do some [TS]

00:02:43   playing and then we'll see what showed [TS]

00:02:45   that ends up fitting in yeah you know [TS]

00:02:47   cuz i have to i like a lot of these [TS]

00:02:49   games are multiplayer so I'm gonna have [TS]

00:02:51   to enlist the family to you know kid [TS]

00:02:54   test the game and mom test it and you [TS]

00:02:58   know all sorts of other stuff so I will [TS]

00:03:00   report back yes this will be excited but [TS]

00:03:03   it's the black that not here's a [TS]

00:03:04   question do you it the the wii u comes [TS]

00:03:07   with them like the one controller with [TS]

00:03:09   the screen in it and the deluxe set has [TS]

00:03:12   like a little bass and little charger [TS]

00:03:13   and comes with a game and some other [TS]

00:03:17   things um it will that be sufficient for [TS]

00:03:20   your testing will you because I [TS]

00:03:21   understand it uses you can use like [TS]

00:03:23   regular we style controllers and things [TS]

00:03:25   like that with it do you feel like [TS]

00:03:27   you're said it has an hdmi connector I [TS]

00:03:29   mean are you set up to go is there [TS]

00:03:31   anything else you'll need to give this [TS]

00:03:32   the proper check out or anything I think [TS]

00:03:36   I've got everything I've got a bucket [TS]

00:03:37   full of like old we accessories I've got [TS]

00:03:40   plenty of wiimotes and nunchuck [TS]

00:03:41   controllers of course they're white not [TS]

00:03:43   black but what can you do the way [TS]

00:03:45   Nintendo has decided to do it stuff I [TS]

00:03:48   really wish they had offered two colors [TS]

00:03:49   in two different models and then I would [TS]

00:03:50   have gotten a deluxe one in white right [TS]

00:03:53   that's not what they did but anyway I [TS]

00:03:54   have all the peripherals and I should be [TS]

00:03:56   all set on everything else I I may end [TS]

00:03:59   up eventually getting the the pro [TS]

00:04:01   controller but I don't think you even [TS]

00:04:03   need that to play any of the launch [TS]

00:04:06   games or anything well I went I went to [TS]

00:04:08   sort of potentially source another [TS]

00:04:10   controller for you as I was resour [TS]

00:04:12   researching all of this and I went and [TS]

00:04:14   it's I asked first of all the pro [TS]

00:04:17   controllers that they're larger they're [TS]

00:04:20   more like I don't know can I say an Xbox [TS]

00:04:22   style yeah they clearly look like an [TS]

00:04:25   Xbox controller okay and I'm assuming [TS]

00:04:26   that those are [TS]

00:04:27   wireless as opposed to courted but those [TS]

00:04:31   things are really tough to find like [TS]

00:04:33   almost if not as hard as the Wii U [TS]

00:04:35   console itself defined right now yeah I [TS]

00:04:39   imagined I mean eventually I'll get [TS]

00:04:42   enough peripherals and stuff like that [TS]

00:04:44   but immediately I just expect to use the [TS]

00:04:47   system and the transfer process from the [TS]

00:04:49   wii and then play the pac ingame which [TS]

00:04:51   is supposed to demonstrate all the [TS]

00:04:53   different features of the you know lots [TS]

00:04:55   of different games that use the [TS]

00:04:56   controllers in lots of different ways so [TS]

00:04:58   that'll be a good test I think what [TS]

00:05:03   games will you this is yours to keep [TS]

00:05:04   just to be clear this isn't you know [TS]

00:05:06   this isn't a loaner this is yours well [TS]

00:05:10   will you be able to get your own games [TS]

00:05:11   for do we need to send some games along [TS]

00:05:13   maybe we'll send some games I don't know [TS]

00:05:15   how many the launch titles I'm [TS]

00:05:16   interested in like I'm er actually was [TS]

00:05:18   I'm meriden in the oh yeah probably that [TS]

00:05:20   one although I do prefer the 3d marios [TS]

00:05:22   to the 2d ones but I the Nintendo land [TS]

00:05:25   game that it comes with should be [TS]

00:05:27   sufficient to put the thing through its [TS]

00:05:28   paces and zombie you even though it [TS]

00:05:30   looks interesting to me i don't think i [TS]

00:05:32   would actually play that mmm yeah so [TS]

00:05:35   anyway uh so sorry to interrupt with you [TS]

00:05:38   the early i guess it's gonna be a long [TS]

00:05:39   show but i just wanted to ban is [TS]

00:05:41   declared it yeah he has called it the [TS]

00:05:44   first time alright yes this is the first [TS]

00:05:47   bit is tweet from cable sasser the I [TS]

00:05:50   mean intimate community member founder [TS]

00:05:53   of panic software who's also a gamer and [TS]

00:05:56   he tweeted that the Wii U gamepad is [TS]

00:05:59   really good at pointing out AV delays in [TS]

00:06:01   your home theater so he says he put his [TS]

00:06:03   TV into game mode which we've talked [TS]

00:06:05   about in past shows it's the mode some [TS]

00:06:06   televisions have to reduce the number of [TS]

00:06:09   processing steps they do to video in the [TS]

00:06:12   hopes of reducing the latency between [TS]

00:06:14   the time the signal hits the back of the [TS]

00:06:15   TV and the time that that picture [TS]

00:06:17   appears on the television and he says [TS]

00:06:19   he's put his receiver in pure direct [TS]

00:06:21   mode if you have a receiver between your [TS]

00:06:24   game console and your television [TS]

00:06:26   sometimes the receivers have a mode that [TS]

00:06:27   will also not try to do any processing [TS]

00:06:30   on the audio or the video or whatever [TS]

00:06:32   because the reason it shows delays is [TS]

00:06:36   because the wii u sends the wireless [TS]

00:06:39   video signal directly to [TS]

00:06:40   the gamepad and then you can see like if [TS]

00:06:44   you run it where it's running the same [TS]

00:06:45   thing on both screens you can see that [TS]

00:06:46   wow look and you can visually without [TS]

00:06:48   even measuring equipment just see that [TS]

00:06:49   the gamepad is ahead of where your [TS]

00:06:51   television is despite the fact that we [TS]

00:06:52   talked about in the last show that the [TS]

00:06:53   gamepad is actually one sixtieth of a [TS]

00:06:55   second behind the signal coming out of [TS]

00:06:57   the back of the wii u along the hdmi [TS]

00:07:00   cable but all the other parts of your [TS]

00:07:01   system may be introducing delays and it [TS]

00:07:03   ends up that it looks like the gamepad [TS]

00:07:06   is way ahead so that's an interesting [TS]

00:07:08   result of this technology that people [TS]

00:07:10   are going to find out exactly how much [TS]

00:07:11   lag is in there a be setups as another [TS]

00:07:15   article that someone sent along our [TS]

00:07:16   bunch people sent along it is on [TS]

00:07:18   VentureBeat it's the title is forget the [TS]

00:07:22   sixaxis which is the name of [TS]

00:07:23   Playstations terrible little controller [TS]

00:07:26   with the accelerometers in it the Wii [TS]

00:07:29   U's gamepad has nine axis control it's [TS]

00:07:31   like the Gillette razor thing you know [TS]

00:07:33   method we're doing five blades are [TS]

00:07:35   that's the onion story but it became a [TS]

00:07:37   reality right this preposterous they'd [TS]

00:07:39   never do five blades what a joke and now [TS]

00:07:42   it's like can we dude can we do 69 [TS]

00:07:44   access control are there nine axes how [TS]

00:07:47   many X's are there it seems like they [TS]

00:07:49   should only be XY and Z but now they're [TS]

00:07:51   doing 90 so if you read the article i [TS]

00:07:53   linked to in the show notes you will see [TS]

00:07:55   that what they're basically doing is as [TS]

00:07:57   far as i can understand from this [TS]

00:07:58   article adding more redundant sensors in [TS]

00:08:02   an effort to be able to filter out noise [TS]

00:08:04   and stuff like that so the article talks [TS]

00:08:06   about the difference between you know [TS]

00:08:08   accelerometers and stuff that you can [TS]

00:08:09   envision kind of as like a this is not [TS]

00:08:12   what they actually are but imagine a [TS]

00:08:13   t-shaped wooden channel with it with a [TS]

00:08:18   steel ball in it or something and if you [TS]

00:08:19   tilt it the steel ball rolls to one end [TS]

00:08:21   of the thing or the other and there's [TS]

00:08:22   another steel ball going in the left and [TS]

00:08:24   right one you know like that's measuring [TS]

00:08:26   you're tilting in different axes and [TS]

00:08:28   stuff and a lot of those things are just [TS]

00:08:29   relative what you also need is absolute [TS]

00:08:32   positioning so you can say regardless [TS]

00:08:33   support I just did with this device I [TS]

00:08:35   shook it I wave did I moved from left to [TS]

00:08:37   right really quickly what is the [TS]

00:08:38   absolute orientation with respect to you [TS]

00:08:41   know basically gravity with respect to [TS]

00:08:43   the earth and so you all sorts of things [TS]

00:08:44   to try to figure that out including [TS]

00:08:45   sensors that measure the Earth's [TS]

00:08:48   magnetic field to sort of you know to [TS]

00:08:50   tell where is this thing pointing in [TS]

00:08:52   absolute space relative to [TS]

00:08:54   the floor of your room or whatever [TS]

00:08:55   regardless of how it got there how it [TS]

00:08:57   shook her how it was wiggled or how you [TS]

00:08:59   know so we can keep track of where it is [TS]

00:09:01   and apparently the gamepad has many more [TS]

00:09:04   sensors and many more sophisticated [TS]

00:09:06   systems to do this even better than the [TS]

00:09:08   wii motionplus it's in the existing wii [TS]

00:09:11   remote controls so i'm looking forward [TS]

00:09:13   to seeing how much that improves thinks [TS]

00:09:15   and I really hope as does this article [TS]

00:09:16   that they backport this tech to the wii [TS]

00:09:19   remote controls because anything you can [TS]

00:09:21   do to you know it's not like a new [TS]

00:09:23   feature that we were no control supposed [TS]

00:09:24   to already do this but anyone who's [TS]

00:09:26   played Skyward Sword on the wii knows [TS]

00:09:28   that you have to you know recenter it [TS]

00:09:30   and recalibrate and do all the stuffs [TS]

00:09:31   and then that we use is the IR signaled [TS]

00:09:33   as a sort of less resort orientation [TS]

00:09:36   mechanism where the IR signal is coming [TS]

00:09:38   from the top your television in a fixed [TS]

00:09:39   position I'm going to really lose itself [TS]

00:09:41   if you can point it back towards the TV [TS]

00:09:42   you can recalibrate it and it's kind of [TS]

00:09:44   a big mess hopefully the gamepad does [TS]

00:09:46   better so I'm looking forward to seeing [TS]

00:09:48   how well that goes Steve holes are [TS]

00:09:52   burdened with a minor point about video [TS]

00:09:55   latency on the Wii U gamepad he pointed [TS]

00:09:57   out the gamepad's resolution is 854 x [TS]

00:09:59   480 it's not the full resolution of like [TS]

00:10:03   a 1080p television which is 1920 x 1080 [TS]

00:10:05   and it's not even you know 720p which is [TS]

00:10:08   nineteen richest 1280 by 720 and so [TS]

00:10:13   saying you know that the way you [TS]

00:10:14   probably scales down the video for [TS]

00:10:15   transmitting and you say well that's why [TS]

00:10:17   it makes it easier doesn't need to send [TS]

00:10:18   the full signal well that's bandwidth [TS]

00:10:20   wise that's true but latency wise [TS]

00:10:22   scaling down the signal actually adds [TS]

00:10:23   latency so it's even more impressive [TS]

00:10:25   that it can match take the video output [TS]

00:10:27   scale it down and then send the scaled [TS]

00:10:29   down version but it does mean that [TS]

00:10:30   things on the gamepad might not look as [TS]

00:10:32   crisp if any games are actually [TS]

00:10:34   outputting 1080p however the thing about [TS]

00:10:36   console games is almost all console [TS]

00:10:38   games have a much smaller render target [TS]

00:10:40   than the output resolution it's one of [TS]

00:10:42   the tricks they do to get performance as [TS]

00:10:43   they will the game will be rendered at a [TS]

00:10:45   resolution that's smaller than 1080p and [TS]

00:10:47   sometimes even smaller than 720p just [TS]

00:10:49   and then that's that's the native pixels [TS]

00:10:52   of the game edge right and then some [TS]

00:10:55   other part of the GPU right before being [TS]

00:10:56   out outputting the thing will just [TS]

00:10:58   simply scale that image up to fill 720p [TS]

00:11:00   or to fill 1080p so a lot of the and [TS]

00:11:03   this should be scare quotes around a lot [TS]

00:11:04   of the games and say that this game is [TS]

00:11:06   in 720p or this game [TS]

00:11:08   isn't a 1080p like a lot of the time the [TS]

00:11:11   game is rendering at a resolution [TS]

00:11:12   smaller than both of those and just [TS]

00:11:13   simply upscaling for those different [TS]

00:11:14   resolutions and the games that are truly [TS]

00:11:16   native 1080p and 720p come more common [TS]

00:11:18   with time but in the current generation [TS]

00:11:20   of consoles which have similar power to [TS]

00:11:22   the wii u mini games still render have [TS]

00:11:25   smaller render targets than the output [TS]

00:11:26   target nothing is ever simple you know [TS]

00:11:30   no it isn't alright so last week i [TS]

00:11:34   mentioned the idea that regular people [TS]

00:11:37   who were interested in this topic could [TS]

00:11:38   learn about how computers work from the [TS]

00:11:41   gate level on up from you know and [TS]

00:11:42   didn't and gates and stuff like that all [TS]

00:11:45   the way up to how a modern computer [TS]

00:11:47   works if you chop off the low end like [TS]

00:11:50   not learning about chemistry and physics [TS]

00:11:51   and doping and silicon chips and stuff [TS]

00:11:54   like that that removes a lot of the [TS]

00:11:55   really esoteric difficult understand [TS]

00:11:57   stuff but from the gates on up it's [TS]

00:11:59   something that really anyone can [TS]

00:12:00   understand and i said that didn't know [TS]

00:12:02   of any good resources to learn that you [TS]

00:12:03   know other than going to school for four [TS]

00:12:05   years we're just kind of burdensome and [TS]

00:12:08   so i got a lot of suggestions and [TS]

00:12:10   amazingly i got two suggestions [TS]

00:12:12   repeatedly for many other people like it [TS]

00:12:14   was basically I don't think again it's [TS]

00:12:16   just two suggestions and tons of people [TS]

00:12:18   suggested these few things by Twitter [TS]

00:12:19   and email and stuff so they must be [TS]

00:12:20   really good the first one is the book [TS]

00:12:22   called code by Charles petzold at yeah [TS]

00:12:25   petzl that's right the hidden language [TS]

00:12:27   again from computer hardware and [TS]

00:12:29   software is link in the show notes [TS]

00:12:30   Kieran Healy was the first one suggested [TS]

00:12:33   he says is that it begins with a lovely [TS]

00:12:36   conceptual introduction to boolean logic [TS]

00:12:37   and build step by step up to a tour of [TS]

00:12:39   the motorola 68000 series and the intel [TS]

00:12:42   8080 and from there to integrated [TS]

00:12:44   motherboards and programming languages [TS]

00:12:45   it's really beautifully constructed [TS]

00:12:47   wonderfully clear book a minor classic [TS]

00:12:49   really and someone else whose name i [TS]

00:12:51   shamefully did not include in the show [TS]

00:12:52   notes but emailed right after here and [TS]

00:12:54   says it explains how to build a computer [TS]

00:12:56   from the ground up in a very accessible [TS]

00:12:57   way starts with information theory in [TS]

00:13:00   Morse code and then from telegraphy you [TS]

00:13:03   know using a telegraph relays to logic [TS]

00:13:06   gates on words to building ram cpu and [TS]

00:13:07   whatnot there's recommended by a friend [TS]

00:13:09   and it blew my mind that is possible to [TS]

00:13:11   explain this stuff in an accessible way [TS]

00:13:12   so if you want a book to learn this [TS]

00:13:14   stuff there you go charles pets olds [TS]

00:13:16   code which is an older book but this [TS]

00:13:18   stuff really hasn't changed and these [TS]

00:13:21   second very popular suggestion was a [TS]

00:13:23   website / sort of build it yourself [TS]

00:13:26   course material / video series / text [TS]

00:13:29   book / you know internet multimedia [TS]

00:13:32   extravaganza it is called from NAND to [TS]

00:13:35   Tetris building am under modern computer [TS]

00:13:37   from first principles the website is [TS]

00:13:39   triple w nand to the number to tetris [TS]

00:13:43   org also in the show notes as the site [TS]

00:13:46   says it contains all the software tools [TS]

00:13:47   and project materials necessary to build [TS]

00:13:49   a general-purpose computer system from [TS]

00:13:50   the ground up we also provide a set of [TS]

00:13:52   lecture is designed to support a typical [TS]

00:13:54   course on the subject this is aimed [TS]

00:13:56   students instructors and self learners [TS]

00:13:58   everything is free and open source blah [TS]

00:14:00   blah so there you go you have two ways [TS]

00:14:02   to take a crack of this one if you just [TS]

00:14:04   want to read a book that's a great book [TS]

00:14:05   and if you want to sort of do it [TS]

00:14:06   interactively online or watch videos or [TS]

00:14:08   sort of do it do it yourself course you [TS]

00:14:10   want man to tetris good old internet [TS]

00:14:14   it's got something for everything this [TS]

00:14:17   next one is a bit of follow-up from two [TS]

00:14:20   shows ago but i missed it it was in the [TS]

00:14:21   show notes somehow i missed it but my [TS]

00:14:23   new thing lately i put something in the [TS]

00:14:24   notes and then just scan over it it's a [TS]

00:14:26   shame ah moore's law was mentioned many [TS]

00:14:28   shows ago and i had said on the show [TS]

00:14:30   that maybe i did maybe remember i do [TS]

00:14:33   things forgetting that i've already done [TS]

00:14:35   this fall if any way you can tell me i [TS]

00:14:36   might say that's an i don't care how [TS]

00:14:38   many times you follow people love this i [TS]

00:14:40   love it that moore's law was two years [TS]

00:14:42   or was one year i listed originally and [TS]

00:14:45   it's actually two years is from the [TS]

00:14:46   wikipedia article Moore's Law is the [TS]

00:14:49   observation that blah blah blah the [TS]

00:14:51   number of transistors on integrated [TS]

00:14:52   circuit doubles approximately every two [TS]

00:14:54   years and it says the period is often [TS]

00:14:55   quoted as 18 months due to Intel [TS]

00:14:57   executive David house who predicted that [TS]

00:14:59   period for doubling and ship performance [TS]

00:15:01   which is not quite the same thing as a [TS]

00:15:02   number of transistors in his kind of a [TS]

00:15:04   fudgy anyway so or was original law two [TS]

00:15:06   years often quoted as 18 months and [TS]

00:15:09   often misquoted by me as 12 months [TS]

00:15:11   apparently so apologize for the error [TS]

00:15:14   there one more random one before we get [TS]

00:15:17   to some Intel arm stuff which is [TS]

00:15:19   producing even more follow up this from [TS]

00:15:21   Andrew Burwell he was one of the many [TS]

00:15:24   people to grant me this story on makanan [TS]

00:15:27   that says OS ten ten point eight point [TS]

00:15:30   three beta supports the radeon HD 7900 [TS]

00:15:34   series chipset [TS]

00:15:35   this is nothing are straddling but it is [TS]

00:15:40   exciting whenever we see a new beta of [TS]

00:15:42   OS 10 with new video drivers because it [TS]

00:15:45   suggests that future max are coming that [TS]

00:15:49   support that include this hardware cuz [TS]

00:15:52   otherwise why would I would Apple have [TS]

00:15:53   drivers for it right and this hardware [TS]

00:15:56   is radeon is it AMD / 80 is like top-end [TS]

00:16:01   very fast video cards and where would [TS]

00:16:03   they put a card like that I suppose they [TS]

00:16:06   could put one in an imac maybe it'd mean [TS]

00:16:08   they have room in there they could come [TS]

00:16:10   up with the cooling solution but it just [TS]

00:16:11   doesn't seem like what they normally do [TS]

00:16:12   and so this it's heavily towards [TS]

00:16:14   something Mac Pro caliber which we all [TS]

00:16:18   hope is coming in 2013 again Tim Cook [TS]

00:16:22   said something for people who like mac [TS]

00:16:23   pros will be coming in 2013 if that [TS]

00:16:25   something has this video card you know a [TS]

00:16:29   card from this video card series I guess [TS]

00:16:32   you would call them I would be very [TS]

00:16:33   happy so all things are continuing a [TS]

00:16:36   pace for 2013 resurrection of something [TS]

00:16:39   that will make me happy that may or may [TS]

00:16:41   not be a mac pro so thumbs up on that in [TS]

00:16:43   the show notes if you would like to [TS]

00:16:45   oggle the the details sugar turns 5 by 5 [TS]

00:16:50   that TV such hypercritical / 96 yes [TS]

00:16:54   what's the next part we have is all the [TS]

00:16:58   Intel follow-up jeez it's like I have [TS]

00:16:59   show all by itself e I've got Intel [TS]

00:17:01   follow-up and then a couple [TS]

00:17:03   miscellaneous follow-ups and then the [TS]

00:17:04   shows topic the Intel foul-up could be [TS]

00:17:07   long should we should we do a sponsor [TS]

00:17:08   before then then you can just dive right [TS]

00:17:09   in and take all the time you need but it [TS]

00:17:12   gets a good idea koku that is it koku or [TS]

00:17:15   Co Co Co Q coke you I've been saying it [TS]

00:17:19   wrong it's a fresh approach for personal [TS]

00:17:20   finance management doesn't matter how [TS]

00:17:22   you say it it's designed to make [TS]

00:17:24   tracking your money simple and intuitive [TS]

00:17:25   and now you can get this for the mac for [TS]

00:17:27   the iphone in both of the app stores [TS]

00:17:29   this is what's cool about it the apps [TS]

00:17:31   they sync via iCloud so your data stays [TS]

00:17:34   consistent whether you're at home [TS]

00:17:35   whether you're on the go and this is my [TS]

00:17:37   favorite part of the app is it's got [TS]

00:17:39   this smart tagging system it allows you [TS]

00:17:41   to describe the transactions that you [TS]

00:17:43   make in a way that's meaningful to you [TS]

00:17:45   it doesn't impose its own hierarchy it [TS]

00:17:47   doesn't impose buckets or cat [TS]

00:17:49   it's it's about how you work how you [TS]

00:17:52   track your own finances you define it [TS]

00:17:55   and then you use these reports that'll [TS]

00:17:57   show a personalized financial picture [TS]

00:17:59   that gives it a real insight into how [TS]

00:18:01   you're spending your money or not [TS]

00:18:02   spending your money John based on those [TS]

00:18:06   categories that you've created that is [TS]

00:18:09   smart lists ooh they're kind of like [TS]

00:18:10   smart playlists but there for your [TS]

00:18:12   transactions so you can actually see it [TS]

00:18:15   the way you want to see it they were [TS]

00:18:18   featured in the mac app store but the [TS]

00:18:19   great thing is that both apps are on [TS]

00:18:21   sale now during this special run they're [TS]

00:18:23   doing with us for half price so it's [TS]

00:18:25   2999 for the mac and a 499 for the [TS]

00:18:28   iphone is the regular price half price [TS]

00:18:31   now half price 1499 for the mac buck 99 [TS]

00:18:35   for the iphone co q app kok you AP p dot [TS]

00:18:40   com go check them out Coco AB they're [TS]

00:18:43   really awesome Intel well we saw that we [TS]

00:18:49   got some real time follow up in the chat [TS]

00:18:50   room first I've been interests if he [TS]

00:18:53   thinks they'll be an improvement on the [TS]

00:18:55   controls on wii games when playing on [TS]

00:18:56   the wii u if they release new wiimotes [TS]

00:18:59   with the new internals new improved [TS]

00:19:01   internals i think there could be because [TS]

00:19:04   as far as the wii system is concerned [TS]

00:19:06   when we use in wii emulation well they [TS]

00:19:08   would still just like look like a normal [TS]

00:19:09   wii remote it would just have like you [TS]

00:19:10   know it would just be more reliable more [TS]

00:19:13   difficult to confuse and you know maybe [TS]

00:19:15   you know it should look the same it [TS]

00:19:18   should just be better so that is [TS]

00:19:19   actually possible if they did that but [TS]

00:19:20   it's not going to make an improvement [TS]

00:19:22   who's you can't play wii games with the [TS]

00:19:24   gamepad right so it's not gonna do it [TS]

00:19:26   improvement too late unless they release [TS]

00:19:28   improved wii u controls o mine Fed wants [TS]

00:19:34   me to come back at 2013 when i get my [TS]

00:19:36   new mac pro so we can have a worry about [TS]

00:19:38   that if and when it happens dan Hickson [TS]

00:19:41   wants to say that ogle has a long oh [TS]

00:19:44   it's not oggle i always say oggle i know [TS]

00:19:46   i guess it doesn't come up in [TS]

00:19:47   conversation a lot but yeah he's right [TS]

00:19:49   it's a long ago sorry about that all [TS]

00:19:51   right intel a quick review this is all [TS]

00:19:57   about apple and whether they're going to [TS]

00:19:59   use intel chips and their macs and what [TS]

00:20:01   Intel's position [TS]

00:20:02   is relative to arm the other various arm [TS]

00:20:05   CPUs and all that business so at one [TS]

00:20:09   point in talking about risk and siskin [TS]

00:20:11   until an arm i talked about segment [TS]

00:20:13   registers on intel cpus which were used [TS]

00:20:15   way back when to address memory in a [TS]

00:20:17   segmented manner where your memory [TS]

00:20:20   addresses in your code would be offsets [TS]

00:20:23   from a segment and you'd change the [TS]

00:20:25   segment register and then the offsets [TS]

00:20:26   would be relative to that and all sorts [TS]

00:20:28   of stuff like that which is not use [TS]

00:20:30   nowadays in modern architectures but [TS]

00:20:33   still exists on the cpus for backward [TS]

00:20:34   compatibility and i said that how if [TS]

00:20:36   they could remove one feature to [TS]

00:20:38   simplify intel cpus my anonymous source [TS]

00:20:40   said that segmentation would be the one [TS]

00:20:44   to remove well daniel cohen wrote in to [TS]

00:20:46   point out the interesting things that [TS]

00:20:47   people are doing one of the interesting [TS]

00:20:49   things that people are doing with the [TS]

00:20:50   segment registers in Google's Native [TS]

00:20:53   Client project which I have link in the [TS]

00:20:54   show notes it's their way to you know [TS]

00:20:57   run native code on your machine but [TS]

00:20:59   delivered via the web it's not you know [TS]

00:21:01   job our JavaScript or whatever they do a [TS]

00:21:03   bunch of really clever hacks to run [TS]

00:21:06   untrusted x86 code sort of in a sandbox [TS]

00:21:08   in a way that is safer because they [TS]

00:21:10   don't want you know you to load a [TS]

00:21:12   webpage and then it runs arbitrary code [TS]

00:21:13   on your cpu because that would be bad [TS]

00:21:15   alright so they need some way to to lock [TS]

00:21:17   it down and they they use segmentation [TS]

00:21:20   the segment registers as a means of [TS]

00:21:22   enforcing that kind of security and [TS]

00:21:24   there's a paper where they describe how [TS]

00:21:25   this is done it's in the show notes to [TS]

00:21:27   PDF if you want to take a look at that [TS]

00:21:28   other cpus of similar ways to do similar [TS]

00:21:32   things it's not like segment registers [TS]

00:21:35   are the only way to do this but i [TS]

00:21:36   thought it was interesting because it [TS]

00:21:37   shows the resourcefulness of engineers [TS]

00:21:39   that they're finding something useful to [TS]

00:21:41   do with a feature it's not no longer [TS]

00:21:44   needed for its old intended purpose but [TS]

00:21:47   still exists on the hardware for [TS]

00:21:48   backward compatibility reasons i we can [TS]

00:21:50   use the hardware for something so that's [TS]

00:21:53   interesting and then the second use is [TS]

00:21:55   from andrew oh goodness andrew big house [TS]

00:22:00   goss oh goodness i got nothing on that [TS]

00:22:04   one sv e ik au s Kas sorry andrew should [TS]

00:22:09   have practiced it's amazing how i copy [TS]

00:22:12   and paste these names into my show [TS]

00:22:13   moment and never think that you know you [TS]

00:22:15   can have to say this name maybe take a [TS]

00:22:16   look at it now [TS]

00:22:16   so like during the show you aren't [TS]

00:22:18   surprised but but you know there you go [TS]

00:22:20   eight points out that the x86 segment [TS]

00:22:23   registers are used to define privilege [TS]

00:22:25   levels you know ring 0 ring one whatever [TS]

00:22:28   in in windows are in you know some x86 [TS]

00:22:33   operating systems and windows also uses [TS]

00:22:34   them for thread-local storage and if you [TS]

00:22:36   don't know what that ring 0 businesses I [TS]

00:22:38   put a link in the show notes to the [TS]

00:22:39   relevant Wikipedia page it's about [TS]

00:22:41   protection domains where the most [TS]

00:22:44   privileged code runs in ring 0 I hope I [TS]

00:22:46   got that right or not backwards and you [TS]

00:22:48   know see you I you the code runs in a [TS]

00:22:50   different ring it has different [TS]

00:22:51   privileges and stuff like that so that's [TS]

00:22:53   another interesting use of the segment [TS]

00:22:55   registers but just maybe closer to their [TS]

00:22:58   intended purpose but still kind of weird [TS]

00:22:59   let me check that out if you're [TS]

00:23:01   interesting alright moving on to the [TS]

00:23:05   meteor business stuff here 9to5 mac had [TS]

00:23:09   a story this week with a great prefix [TS]

00:23:13   you know they do that bunch of words [TS]

00:23:14   colon and then the headline so they're [TS]

00:23:16   they're prefixes wild speculation Cohen [TS]

00:23:19   alright well you know you're being [TS]

00:23:20   you're being honest right wild [TS]

00:23:21   speculation Cohen y 2 billion dollar AMD [TS]

00:23:24   purchase would be a puzzle piece fit for [TS]

00:23:26   Apple hmm way to turn a phrase their [TS]

00:23:29   puzzle piece fit okay that link is in [TS]

00:23:32   the show notes the idea is hey hey guys [TS]

00:23:35   what have happened what AMD because they [TS]

00:23:38   make x86 CPUs and even though Apple thus [TS]

00:23:40   far has not chosen to go with them [TS]

00:23:42   because intel has better CPUs for less [TS]

00:23:44   money that use less power that are [TS]

00:23:45   faster and blah blah blah blah blah AMD [TS]

00:23:48   might have some good stuff too yeah [TS]

00:23:49   they're out there trying to sell their [TS]

00:23:50   texas campus to raise money and then [TS]

00:23:54   they want to like get it back they're [TS]

00:23:57   gonna sell it unlikely sit back for ya [TS]

00:23:59   something i don't know it's weird yeah [TS]

00:24:01   but like and the reason this comes up as [TS]

00:24:03   cuz AMD is like as is not doing that [TS]

00:24:05   well like so people you know people look [TS]

00:24:07   at it and look into a plane maybe Apple [TS]

00:24:09   could buy them because hey maybe you get [TS]

00:24:10   a cheap cuz like they're not doing [TS]

00:24:12   terribly but in the Intel vs AMD war [TS]

00:24:15   which it once looked like AMD might be [TS]

00:24:17   getting the upper hand now it's like oh [TS]

00:24:18   poor AMD right so yeah I mean Intel's [TS]

00:24:22   got its own problems too but AMD may be [TS]

00:24:25   a bargain so thinking about this I mean [TS]

00:24:28   first of all Apple certainly has the [TS]

00:24:29   money you know they [TS]

00:24:30   of a 100 billion or more in cash and you [TS]

00:24:33   know AMD they could buy for only a [TS]

00:24:35   couple billion so yeah it's bargain and [TS]

00:24:37   it would be a way to get some really [TS]

00:24:39   great CPU and GPU town because remember [TS]

00:24:41   AMD bought a TI and so they've got the [TS]

00:24:43   all the people from ati are part of that [TS]

00:24:45   that deal and those guys really no [TS]

00:24:47   high-end GPUs and that's some great [TS]

00:24:48   talent and as much as I'm loath to even [TS]

00:24:51   think about things like this I'm sure [TS]

00:24:52   they have tons of patents from a TI and [TS]

00:24:54   AMD is probably got its own patents and [TS]

00:24:56   AMD as we noted before is the one who [TS]

00:24:58   invented x86 64 and yeah so there are [TS]

00:25:02   valuable assets in AMD I don't but the [TS]

00:25:06   thing about it is I don't think Apple [TS]

00:25:08   really wants to continue making CPUs and [TS]

00:25:10   GPUs so if they bought AMD it would [TS]

00:25:12   probably mean the end of selling x86 CPU [TS]

00:25:16   to PC clone makers and it might even be [TS]

00:25:18   the end of selling discrete GPUs to you [TS]

00:25:22   know PC makers like they would just [TS]

00:25:23   become oh this is our new cpu and GPU [TS]

00:25:26   team and i don't even know how you swing [TS]

00:25:28   that because they're all geographically [TS]

00:25:30   I you know diverse and located in [TS]

00:25:33   different offices all over the place and [TS]

00:25:35   there's tons of weird redundancy with [TS]

00:25:36   apple and it seems to me that a buyout [TS]

00:25:39   would mean the end of AMD as we know it [TS]

00:25:40   Apple would get the patents but I don't [TS]

00:25:44   know how much of the staff they would [TS]

00:25:46   retain it would be like an expensive [TS]

00:25:48   ugly unreliable way to buy talent but on [TS]

00:25:54   the other hand I this article points out [TS]

00:25:55   and as Apple said itself and its press [TS]

00:25:58   release about the big mens rea move shop [TS]

00:26:00   reshuffle to be talked about a few shows [TS]

00:26:01   ago Apple did say it has quote ambitious [TS]

00:26:04   plans for the future unquote for its [TS]

00:26:06   semiconductor teams so that would sure [TS]

00:26:09   be ambitious you know by AMD and try to [TS]

00:26:12   make your own stuff using all those [TS]

00:26:15   talented teams it just it just seems [TS]

00:26:17   like a not a particularly easy business [TS]

00:26:19   deal to me and part of me is like if you [TS]

00:26:21   wait long enough they might go out of [TS]

00:26:22   business and you can scoop those guys up [TS]

00:26:24   for a lot less money you know yeah or [TS]

00:26:26   Intel would just hire them all I mean [TS]

00:26:27   with hiring people people like to think [TS]

00:26:29   it's like oh if we if we get AMD we get [TS]

00:26:31   all those people are we can hire all [TS]

00:26:32   those people's like no because they all [TS]

00:26:34   live all over the country and especially [TS]

00:26:36   apple doesn't really like people to be [TS]

00:26:38   like they like to have you in California [TS]

00:26:42   if they can help but especially if [TS]

00:26:43   you're you know working on some mage [TS]

00:26:44   part of their product strategy they have [TS]

00:26:47   different campuses in other places and [TS]

00:26:49   stuff but they really don't like [TS]

00:26:49   telecommuting and it would be very [TS]

00:26:51   difficult to sort of take all of AMD [TS]

00:26:54   scattered people from AMD proper and a [TS]

00:26:56   TI and somehow make remote campuses or [TS]

00:27:00   research facilities that contribute to [TS]

00:27:02   is just I don't you know you like it [TS]

00:27:05   those people say oh well we're all going [TS]

00:27:07   to move our families to California and [TS]

00:27:08   live right near and cheese yeah it's [TS]

00:27:11   it's very difficult to hire people not [TS]

00:27:13   because you can't pay them enough or [TS]

00:27:15   they don't like you but because they [TS]

00:27:16   want to live where they live like that [TS]

00:27:18   is a big factor in hiring people if [TS]

00:27:20   you're raising a family a certain place [TS]

00:27:21   you know it's very difficult for any [TS]

00:27:24   employer to convince you for any [TS]

00:27:26   reasonable lot of money to uproot your [TS]

00:27:27   entire family move someplace else [TS]

00:27:29   alright next story is from semi accurate [TS]

00:27:35   which is a clever website name and from [TS]

00:27:37   what glean from reading couple of [TS]

00:27:39   stories there it is accurate yeah right [TS]

00:27:41   the title d sensational title is Intel [TS]

00:27:44   kills off the desktop pcs go with it [TS]

00:27:47   this is an article from someone who [TS]

00:27:50   obviously does not like this decision [TS]

00:27:52   bemoaning the fact that broadwell will [TS]

00:27:55   not come in an LG a package so that no [TS]

00:27:58   more removable CPU so broad whale is the [TS]

00:28:00   14 nanometer shrink of Haswell coming [TS]

00:28:03   you know after as well uh and intel has [TS]

00:28:06   said that they're not going to give you [TS]

00:28:08   one of those on an LG a package LGA [TS]

00:28:10   stands for land grid array and it's like [TS]

00:28:14   a mounting mechanism for the cpu and [TS]

00:28:15   this kind of mounting mechanism has pins [TS]

00:28:17   on the motherboard and then you put [TS]

00:28:19   that's why it's called like a land grid [TS]

00:28:20   i guess give the little pins are on the [TS]

00:28:22   land and you put the chip on top of it [TS]

00:28:24   and sort of clamp it down and the chins [TS]

00:28:25   the chips got little contacts and they [TS]

00:28:29   push down on the pins so the pins are in [TS]

00:28:31   the socket and not on the little chip [TS]

00:28:33   itself and basically this lets [TS]

00:28:35   motherboard makers make a motherboard [TS]

00:28:36   and they just have a little square hole [TS]

00:28:38   where are you you by the cpu separately [TS]

00:28:39   pick whichever one you want from a [TS]

00:28:41   certain compatible range and stick it in [TS]

00:28:43   here MSD know it's killing the pc [TS]

00:28:45   introduce I all we all are all of these [TS]

00:28:47   things are going to be soldered to the [TS]

00:28:48   logic board that means the only people [TS]

00:28:50   who can make logic boards or you know [TS]

00:28:52   that you can all have to buy the whole [TS]

00:28:54   unit you can't you know shop around I'm [TS]

00:28:55   gonna buy this motherboard and cpu and [TS]

00:28:57   this hard drive [TS]

00:28:58   this video card and plug it all together [TS]

00:28:59   I obviously don't care about this [TS]

00:29:01   because i don't like building pcs that [TS]

00:29:02   way and intel obviously either doesn't [TS]

00:29:06   think that's the future is just trying [TS]

00:29:07   to rest more control over we talked two [TS]

00:29:09   before a last show about trying to intel [TS]

00:29:14   trying to get more control over its [TS]

00:29:15   products by making a system where it [TS]

00:29:18   controls more of the components so we [TS]

00:29:20   can make it all them low voltage and all [TS]

00:29:21   them work together and not be [TS]

00:29:23   power-hungry and to do that it's rather [TS]

00:29:25   than trying to coerce everyone else into [TS]

00:29:28   doing is making like a speck and say you [TS]

00:29:29   must use this you must use that and [TS]

00:29:30   maybe we'll just make the entire [TS]

00:29:31   motherboard and solder the cpu wander [TS]

00:29:33   and this is what you get and tough luck [TS]

00:29:34   which is a big change from the old days [TS]

00:29:36   where everyone would do their little [TS]

00:29:37   business and stick to their knitting and [TS]

00:29:39   this guy would make the cpu and this guy [TS]

00:29:41   would make the motherboard chipset in [TS]

00:29:42   this guy would make the actual [TS]

00:29:42   motherboard and then assemblers would [TS]

00:29:44   build them all together yeah and that [TS]

00:29:48   that sort of interchangeable parts type [TS]

00:29:51   thing is definitely falling by the [TS]

00:29:52   wayside in favor of deeply vertically [TS]

00:29:55   integrated products all the way down to [TS]

00:29:57   the motherboard where you know [TS]

00:29:58   everything squished onto his few chips [TS]

00:29:59   as possible and then one company is [TS]

00:30:02   responsible for building the entire [TS]

00:30:03   system and it's not like a mix-and-match [TS]

00:30:05   thing piece mix-and-match leads to mix [TS]

00:30:08   and match as we talked about I think in [TS]

00:30:09   a show a while ago leads to devices that [TS]

00:30:12   look like typical dell laptops from a [TS]

00:30:15   few years ago and they do not look like [TS]

00:30:17   MacBook Airs of today where every single [TS]

00:30:19   part is custom and everything is [TS]

00:30:20   soldered on including the RAM and that [TS]

00:30:22   the battery is non-removable and it's [TS]

00:30:24   just a a custom-designed thing from the [TS]

00:30:26   ground up like a phone and that's [TS]

00:30:28   clearly the way things are going so you [TS]

00:30:31   know I'm not surprised by the change I [TS]

00:30:32   don't have a problem with it but some [TS]

00:30:34   people are upset alright next few bits [TS]

00:30:39   here are about what the heck Apple is [TS]

00:30:42   going to do for its next series of CPUs [TS]

00:30:46   both for max and for handheld stuffs the [TS]

00:30:48   first story is more estetica headline is [TS]

00:30:51   apple may tap TSMC to move the a series [TS]

00:30:54   mobile chips to 28 nanometer process [TS]

00:30:55   TSMC is Thailand Taiwan Semiconductor [TS]

00:30:58   Manufacturing Corporation and the [TS]

00:31:00   stories about how currently Samsung is [TS]

00:31:04   the sole source for the a5 the a6 and [TS]

00:31:06   the a6 s processors right and Samsung [TS]

00:31:09   and Apple don't particularly get along [TS]

00:31:11   lately [TS]

00:31:11   they're busy suing each other or patents [TS]

00:31:13   Samsung is busy aping the look and feel [TS]

00:31:16   of apples devices and stores and you [TS]

00:31:19   know who knows maybe they're giving [TS]

00:31:20   their employees haircuts the same as [TS]

00:31:22   apples and blight haircuts they're [TS]

00:31:23   definitely copying Apple talked about [TS]

00:31:25   this in the show where I called their [TS]

00:31:26   behavior dishonorable whether or not [TS]

00:31:28   it's illegal or immoral and I thing like [TS]

00:31:30   that it's certainly dishonorable but [TS]

00:31:33   Samsung is the only other big player in [TS]

00:31:34   the market that's making profit in the [TS]

00:31:36   smartphone business and so Apple and [TS]

00:31:39   Samsung are going head-to-head here it's [TS]

00:31:41   kind of bad when you're paying your [TS]

00:31:42   competitor billions of dollars to [TS]

00:31:44   manufacture the critical components of [TS]

00:31:46   your most popular product so I upholster [TS]

00:31:47   looking for a way out there but so far [TS]

00:31:49   Samsung has you know it's the best been [TS]

00:31:52   the best bet the best game in town for [TS]

00:31:53   manufacturing these parts and a lot of [TS]

00:31:55   the earlier parts like the a foreign [TS]

00:31:57   stuff used samsung technology samsung [TS]

00:32:01   design samsung resources to get done and [TS]

00:32:03   the a6 is moved much farther away from [TS]

00:32:05   that where apple's doing design and [TS]

00:32:06   house and trying to use sams lima like a [TS]

00:32:07   fab so they're trying to extricate [TS]

00:32:09   themselves from samsung when the [TS]

00:32:11   question is who else out there can make [TS]

00:32:14   the number of chips that that Apple [TS]

00:32:16   needs at the process they want and this [TS]

00:32:19   article speculating about them moving to [TS]

00:32:21   TSMC which is just a fab they'll make [TS]

00:32:23   your thing you give them the design [TS]

00:32:24   they'll make it for you and it's [TS]

00:32:28   possibility that's one of the places I [TS]

00:32:29   go I think we mentioned this a couple [TS]

00:32:31   shows you as well the article points out [TS]

00:32:34   that TSMC a recently rebuffed attempts [TS]

00:32:37   from both Apple and Qualcomm to gain [TS]

00:32:39   exclusive access to its fab capacity so [TS]

00:32:41   Apple and Qualcomm have both been [TS]

00:32:42   courting TSMC to say sign an exclusive [TS]

00:32:46   contract you will only make stuff for us [TS]

00:32:48   at this process note in this factory and [TS]

00:32:50   they don't want to do it because that's [TS]

00:32:51   like hemming them in they want to be a [TS]

00:32:53   free agent you know everyone comes to me [TS]

00:32:55   will will fab for the highest bidder but [TS]

00:32:58   we don't want to get locked into just [TS]

00:32:59   one bidder there so it's interesting [TS]

00:33:02   dance there and the other question is do [TS]

00:33:03   they have the capacity are they going to [TS]

00:33:05   be able to compete again they're talking [TS]

00:33:06   about 28-nanometer here they're not [TS]

00:33:08   talking about 22 which Intel's currently [TS]

00:33:09   fab again that's certainly not talking [TS]

00:33:11   about 14 which Intel is going to be [TS]

00:33:12   fabbing out by next year so they're [TS]

00:33:13   trying to make a deal for next year to [TS]

00:33:14   do 28-nanometer having the interesting [TS]

00:33:18   thing about this article and why part in [TS]

00:33:19   the show notes is that it has one of [TS]

00:33:21   those great promoted comments that are [TS]

00:33:22   technica does were they read the [TS]

00:33:24   comments and [TS]

00:33:25   mote one of the better ones so that it [TS]

00:33:27   appears alongside the article because [TS]

00:33:29   normally on our Zhou comments are hidden [TS]

00:33:31   entirely unless you click on something [TS]

00:33:33   so this one is from Sur Omega ours he is [TS]

00:33:36   a commenter and not an arse writer and [TS]

00:33:38   he says it will happen meaning that [TS]

00:33:41   Apple's going to go to TSMC but TSMC [TS]

00:33:43   needs to beef up capacity they need to [TS]

00:33:45   get on board with apple style vendor [TS]

00:33:46   financing that goes with most of apples [TS]

00:33:48   suppliers were apple fronts the money [TS]

00:33:49   for the machines in this case [TS]

00:33:51   28-nanometer fab and then the vendor [TS]

00:33:53   pays them back over time for all the [TS]

00:33:54   chips that are made so that's the way [TS]

00:33:57   Apple does business with these things is [TS]

00:33:58   that it will put it's something we use [TS]

00:34:01   some is tremendous capital to fund the [TS]

00:34:02   creation of these things or to buy [TS]

00:34:04   machines like for the aluminum machining [TS]

00:34:05   and stuff like that and enter into sort [TS]

00:34:07   of financial dear ones like we buy the [TS]

00:34:08   stuff for you and then you pay us back [TS]

00:34:11   in the product you create I'm not sure [TS]

00:34:13   why they structure the deal this way it [TS]

00:34:15   shirts some sort of business thing cook [TS]

00:34:16   ism thing that I don't understand but [TS]

00:34:19   the two his two points are one the TSMC [TS]

00:34:22   needs tons of capacity because can be [TS]

00:34:24   very difficult to to fulfill apples [TS]

00:34:27   orders and to TSMC needs to get used to [TS]

00:34:30   this kind of financial arrangement [TS]

00:34:30   because apparently it's what Apple wants [TS]

00:34:32   and he says see the purported investment [TS]

00:34:35   in sharps new igzo LCD facilities are [TS]

00:34:39   also getting pulled into 2012 IGZO is [TS]

00:34:43   indium gallium zinc oxide show link in [TS]

00:34:46   the show notes to the Wikipedia page [TS]

00:34:48   explaining it's a process for making [TS]

00:34:49   lcds but is another type of investment [TS]

00:34:51   where Apple will front the money and [TS]

00:34:53   then you get paid back in parts that are [TS]

00:34:54   made Cyril mega RS continues based on [TS]

00:34:58   the timetables I've read for the [TS]

00:34:59   migration to 20 nanometers I don't [TS]

00:35:01   expect that Apple to get it here this [TS]

00:35:03   year Apple does a cute three launch of [TS]

00:35:05   the next iPhones and iPads we could see [TS]

00:35:06   an a7 chip built on 28 nanometer for the [TS]

00:35:08   2013 products and a8 chip built on 20 [TS]

00:35:12   nanometer for the 2014 product so here [TS]

00:35:14   in this speculation he's saying in 2014 [TS]

00:35:17   Apple could be on 20 nanometer but it's [TS]

00:35:20   kind of depressing if you consider that [TS]

00:35:21   Intel's on 22 nanometer now and by 2013 [TS]

00:35:24   is going to be on 14 nanometer but [TS]

00:35:26   anyway continuing waiting another full [TS]

00:35:29   year for 20 nanometer is no big deal for [TS]

00:35:31   Apple since the biggest power drain is [TS]

00:35:33   out of their control the LCDs and the [TS]

00:35:34   cellular radio is consumed far more than [TS]

00:35:36   the CPU does [TS]

00:35:37   that's kind of true but like it's not [TS]

00:35:38   out of their control like that's why [TS]

00:35:39   they're trying to invest in LCD things [TS]

00:35:41   they're trying to get the the power the [TS]

00:35:43   power consumption of the LCD is now and [TS]

00:35:44   cellular radio stuff I wouldn't assume [TS]

00:35:45   that so out of their control because one [TS]

00:35:47   of the things that I thought about when [TS]

00:35:48   they said ambitious plan for [TS]

00:35:49   semiconductor is what if Apple starts to [TS]

00:35:51   get into the cell radio business to try [TS]

00:35:54   to make super low power stuff the [TS]

00:35:57   commenter continues switching to IGZO [TS]

00:35:59   and I wonderful is the way you pronounce [TS]

00:36:00   that without reading the letters anyway [TS]

00:36:02   especially to IGZO we should we should [TS]

00:36:05   leave leave that alone yes and [TS]

00:36:07   Qualcomm's third gen LTE chips will cut [TS]

00:36:10   power usage enough to make a red an ipad [TS]

00:36:12   or ipad many thin again so you're saying [TS]

00:36:13   that just by getting the lower power [TS]

00:36:16   screens and and new LTE chipsets from [TS]

00:36:19   qualcomm or whoever and a lower process [TS]

00:36:21   size that will cut power usage enough [TS]

00:36:23   for her you know things like the ipad [TS]

00:36:25   mini to go retina or four to make the [TS]

00:36:27   the big ipad thinner again even if [TS]

00:36:30   they're only on 20 nanometer by that [TS]

00:36:31   point so that is one commenters opinion [TS]

00:36:34   there i thought it was interesting next [TS]

00:36:36   article is a similar vintage it's from [TS]

00:36:39   fortune if samsung doesn't supply apples [TS]

00:36:42   processors who will so here is an [TS]

00:36:45   analyst i meet dari jaani jaani dari [TS]

00:36:50   jaani jaani like that it's a nice little [TS]

00:36:53   bullet point list of all right who if [TS]

00:36:56   it's not going to be Samsung who can fab [TS]

00:36:58   for Apple and he gives a couple choices [TS]

00:37:00   one is Intel and here is this the quote [TS]

00:37:05   about this intel has fat has three [TS]

00:37:08   foundry partners including a bunch of [TS]

00:37:10   names of companies that i'm not going to [TS]

00:37:11   try to pronounce until is currently [TS]

00:37:13   ahead of arm by one point five [TS]

00:37:14   generations plus FinFET FinFET as an [TS]

00:37:17   arrangement a physical arrangement of [TS]

00:37:19   the stuff on the silicon chip the 3d [TS]

00:37:22   transistor type thing which is a way of [TS]

00:37:24   making transistors with a different [TS]

00:37:26   different layout of layers on top of [TS]

00:37:28   each other anyway comparing 22 nanometer [TS]

00:37:32   x86 SMI chips to apples arm-based 32 [TS]

00:37:34   nanometer this gap could widen is until [TS]

00:37:36   moves to 14 nanometer production in 2014 [TS]

00:37:38   a notable dynamic would be by becoming a [TS]

00:37:42   foundry for Apple it may dilute its own [TS]

00:37:43   mobile ambitions blah blah blah so [TS]

00:37:45   there's Intel's one option we talked [TS]

00:37:46   about that last time the next is a TSMC [TS]

00:37:49   that we just talked about [TS]

00:37:51   they would have to expend a lot of money [TS]

00:37:54   to get their capacity up to apples needs [TS]

00:37:56   and then GlobalFoundries is another one [TS]

00:37:57   there apparently working on 20 nanometer [TS]

00:38:00   process but again questions about if [TS]

00:38:03   they have the capacity to fab that many [TS]

00:38:05   and the final option is go vertical what [TS]

00:38:08   have apple decides to do their own thing [TS]

00:38:09   build their own fabs he says this is [TS]

00:38:12   unlikely but you know you can't get [TS]

00:38:15   anything out when a company has a [TS]

00:38:16   hundred billion dollars and says it has [TS]

00:38:18   ambitious semiconductor plans so who [TS]

00:38:19   knows so there are some shopkins there [TS]

00:38:21   and finally the most late-breaking one [TS]

00:38:23   here is from our friend philip [TS]

00:38:25   elmer-dewitt also it for any other [TS]

00:38:27   friend of the show yes in our enter [TS]

00:38:29   Apple 2 point 0 section of their site [TS]

00:38:31   says RBC Intel and talks with Apple to [TS]

00:38:34   build iphone processors so here you go [TS]

00:38:38   this is another person from the same [TS]

00:38:39   analyst group saying a speculation you [TS]

00:38:43   are acknowledging this has been [TS]

00:38:43   speculation about until fabbing here's [TS]

00:38:46   how such a deal might work and I don't [TS]

00:38:49   know if is one of those things like [TS]

00:38:50   here's how this such a deal might work [TS]

00:38:52   int int like it's based on information [TS]

00:38:53   on that you can't say or if it's just [TS]

00:38:55   plain old speculation like I imagine [TS]

00:38:56   this is how it could work it seems to me [TS]

00:38:58   that this type of story wouldn't get [TS]

00:39:00   published if there wasn't some [TS]

00:39:01   underlying seed of truth like someone at [TS]

00:39:04   Intel mentioned that they had proposed [TS]

00:39:05   this or that they might consider it or [TS]

00:39:07   who knows but anyway the deal is it be [TS]

00:39:11   possible fantasy speculated deal is [TS]

00:39:15   until would agree to use apples [TS]

00:39:17   preferred architecture for the iPhone [TS]

00:39:18   meaning they would fab ARM chips in [TS]

00:39:20   return Apple would agree to switch to [TS]

00:39:22   x86 in the iPad we talked about last [TS]

00:39:25   show how intel has a roadmap of chips [TS]

00:39:28   that will eventually be in a power [TS]

00:39:30   envelope that can fit an iPad scale [TS]

00:39:32   device so maybe that's the deal maybe [TS]

00:39:33   until the locate look will fab your [TS]

00:39:35   chips for your little tiny phones and [TS]

00:39:37   iPods and stuff and we'll fab your arm [TS]

00:39:39   chips using our awesome process in [TS]

00:39:40   return you agree to put x86 in your [TS]

00:39:42   iPad's huh I don't know if Apple would [TS]

00:39:45   agree to that because it would be weird [TS]

00:39:46   you have to start building fat binaries [TS]

00:39:48   for the App Store and I don't know but [TS]

00:39:51   there you go and according to this [TS]

00:39:54   analyst what's his name something [TS]

00:39:55   Friedman apples demand for 12-inch [TS]

00:39:58   system-on-a-chip wafers could be not [TS]

00:40:00   that they're 12 inch chips but the [TS]

00:40:02   wafers or 12 inch [TS]

00:40:03   could approach 415,000 outstripping [TS]

00:40:06   Samsung's ability to supply so be this [TS]

00:40:09   question keeps coming up not just [TS]

00:40:10   because apple hates Samsung but it seems [TS]

00:40:12   like Samsung doesn't even have the fab [TS]

00:40:13   capacity to manufacture as many chips as [TS]

00:40:16   Apple's going to need in 2013 so they [TS]

00:40:17   got to go to somebody so I mean [TS]

00:40:19   obviously Samsung could increase its fab [TS]

00:40:21   capacity but seems like apples looking [TS]

00:40:22   for a way out and so they're looking for [TS]

00:40:24   someone with more capacity and he says [TS]

00:40:28   we believe that intel has the upper hand [TS]

00:40:29   due to limitations of capacity at the [TS]

00:40:31   alternative sources chiefly TSMC and [TS]

00:40:36   GlobalFoundries so this is why he's this [TS]

00:40:39   analyst is leaning on the Intel can I [TS]

00:40:41   was like look no we don't think anyone [TS]

00:40:42   else has the capacity no matter how much [TS]

00:40:44   money Apple spends on it i guess if they [TS]

00:40:46   build them new fabs and stuff like that [TS]

00:40:47   the apples best bet is Intel because [TS]

00:40:50   intel has the capacity we talked about [TS]

00:40:52   in LA intel has been expanding its [TS]

00:40:53   capacity of its 14 animator things [TS]

00:40:55   seemingly far beyond what it needs to [TS]

00:40:56   manufacture its own stuff perhaps in [TS]

00:40:58   preparation for to say hey Apple you [TS]

00:41:01   know we're not only we have the best [TS]

00:41:02   process we also have the most capacity [TS]

00:41:04   let's do a deal but those x86 trips in [TS]

00:41:07   the iPad and we'll fab your arm chips [TS]

00:41:08   more stuff to watch and finally on the [TS]

00:41:15   Intel topic finally on the Intel top [TS]

00:41:17   this is our good old anonymous source [TS]

00:41:19   from last show back with some more all [TS]

00:41:21   right bits yes love this guy or Guzman [TS]

00:41:24   we don't know it we're just gonna go [TS]

00:41:26   with guys via the gender-neutral [TS]

00:41:29   anonymous choice right now um last show [TS]

00:41:33   i talked about how as well was like a [TS]

00:41:36   slightly wider architecture than the Ivy [TS]

00:41:38   Bridge chips it wasn't a big radical [TS]

00:41:40   change he replied back with some other [TS]

00:41:42   additional changes that he thought were [TS]

00:41:44   significant I still say they're not as [TS]

00:41:46   significant as like you know the change [TS]

00:41:47   from netburst decor or whatever but [TS]

00:41:48   they're worth noting as well adds fused [TS]

00:41:52   multiply ad or f MA as it's often [TS]

00:41:55   abbreviated which is the feature the [TS]

00:41:56   PowerPC chaps I think altivec had for [TS]

00:41:59   ages ago was one of those things that we [TS]

00:42:01   set out as an advantage of the old [TS]

00:42:03   PowerPC architecture but anyway fuse [TS]

00:42:06   multiply ad is where it was what it [TS]

00:42:08   sounds like you you multiply two [TS]

00:42:10   products two numbers together and you [TS]

00:42:12   take the product that multiplication and [TS]

00:42:13   you add it to an accumulator and it's a [TS]

00:42:16   very common operation [TS]

00:42:17   doing like lots of 3d math and vector [TS]

00:42:19   math and stuff like that and if you make [TS]

00:42:22   hardware for it where you can say do do [TS]

00:42:24   a fuse multiply ad and it's like a [TS]

00:42:26   single instruction instead of having to [TS]

00:42:27   multiply the two numbers together take [TS]

00:42:29   the resultant edge or another one it's [TS]

00:42:31   common enough that it's worth being [TS]

00:42:32   built into hardware and so as well has [TS]

00:42:35   that and I think it's part of a VX to a [TS]

00:42:39   VX is there vector extension that that's [TS]

00:42:41   you know we had SSC one two or three and [TS]

00:42:43   four now they've got a B X and avx2 so [TS]

00:42:45   you can see how that's going and he says [TS]

00:42:48   this has huge implications for [TS]

00:42:49   high-performance computing which is [TS]

00:42:50   probably true and also there's software [TS]

00:42:53   trent not software to the actual menu [TS]

00:42:54   hardware support for transactional [TS]

00:42:56   memory transactional memory is confusing [TS]

00:42:59   and esoteric I've put a link into the [TS]

00:43:00   show notes for Ars Technica article [TS]

00:43:03   titled transactional memory going [TS]

00:43:06   mainstream with intel has as well the [TS]

00:43:07   I'll try to summarize transactional [TS]

00:43:10   memory the gist of transactional memory [TS]

00:43:12   is rather than the old way of when you [TS]

00:43:16   have multiple threads modifying the same [TS]

00:43:18   data structures in memory of like having [TS]

00:43:21   a lock were some guy grabs and locking [TS]

00:43:22   Sissoko everyone else I've got the lock [TS]

00:43:24   I'm gonna fiddle with this data [TS]

00:43:26   structure and it fiddles with it secure [TS]

00:43:28   that no one else could possibly be [TS]

00:43:29   fiddling with it because they would all [TS]

00:43:30   try to grab the lock and he has it [TS]

00:43:31   thinks it's nope you can't grab block [TS]

00:43:32   I've got it when he's done he releases [TS]

00:43:34   the lock and then someone else goes oh I [TS]

00:43:35   need the lock and grabs the lock [TS]

00:43:37   modifies the memory and so on so forth [TS]

00:43:38   lock based you know resolving contention [TS]

00:43:43   with the lock is all well and good [TS]

00:43:45   except this is problems about how [TS]

00:43:47   granular do you make the locks like do [TS]

00:43:49   you put a lock on an entire giant data [TS]

00:43:50   structure you just put locks on little [TS]

00:43:52   parts of it and is you know does the [TS]

00:43:54   lock block out everybody in the entire [TS]

00:43:55   universe or just blocks out people who [TS]

00:43:56   want to my brother by this one section [TS]

00:43:58   so lock granularity is a problem also [TS]

00:44:00   writing lock based code like writing the [TS]

00:44:02   code for it if you if you have someone [TS]

00:44:03   forget to grab the lock and they just [TS]

00:44:05   modify it accidentally you've got a [TS]

00:44:06   problem so you have to make sure [TS]

00:44:08   everyone grabs lock make sure locks are [TS]

00:44:10   grabbed on the right order or else you [TS]

00:44:11   get deadlock and all the other things [TS]

00:44:13   that are difficult to deal with so [TS]

00:44:15   transactional memory is supposed to be [TS]

00:44:18   so it's sometimes called like lock free [TS]

00:44:19   programming where you don't try to grab [TS]

00:44:20   a lock and what happens that everyone [TS]

00:44:22   just tries to do everything at once with [TS]

00:44:23   the idea that in most cases there won't [TS]

00:44:25   be a conflict because the lock thing is [TS]

00:44:27   like always preventative like oh if [TS]

00:44:29   anything goes wrong you know we [TS]

00:44:30   something we could [TS]

00:44:31   conflict with each other so I better [TS]

00:44:32   grab this lock and maybe it's the case [TS]

00:44:35   that there would have been no conflict [TS]

00:44:36   in the car it's like cars going through [TS]

00:44:37   an intersection with no traffic light [TS]

00:44:38   maybe they do subtle will sail past each [TS]

00:44:40   other and no one would have hit each [TS]

00:44:42   other would have been fine why does [TS]

00:44:44   everyone always have to have this lock [TS]

00:44:45   as it slows down traffic so [TS]

00:44:47   transactional memory is like no box just [TS]

00:44:48   try to do what you were going to do and [TS]

00:44:50   then the CPU keeps track in this case [TS]

00:44:51   hardware transactional memory the CPU [TS]

00:44:53   keeps track of whether there actually [TS]

00:44:55   was a collision so everybody just tries [TS]

00:44:56   to do what they're going to do and at [TS]

00:44:57   the end of it says all right everyone [TS]

00:44:59   did what they were going to do did [TS]

00:45:00   someone else try to do something at the [TS]

00:45:01   same time you were doing it and if they [TS]

00:45:04   did they'll say oops oh that didn't work [TS]

00:45:05   out we had a collision it will roll back [TS]

00:45:07   everything you did and say you've got to [TS]

00:45:09   try that over because you had a [TS]

00:45:10   collision it's sort of like optimistic [TS]

00:45:12   locking but not really but anyway it's a [TS]

00:45:14   way for you for the programmer to write [TS]

00:45:16   their programs without having to grab [TS]

00:45:18   locks and everything as long as they can [TS]

00:45:19   handle the fact that in there in the [TS]

00:45:21   hopefully rare case where there is a [TS]

00:45:22   collision they will just be asked to [TS]

00:45:24   retry their operation it's like it's [TS]

00:45:26   basically the opposite is expecting [TS]

00:45:27   there not to be a conflict and handling [TS]

00:45:29   when there is instead of expecting there [TS]

00:45:30   to be a conflict in preventing it from [TS]

00:45:31   ever happen and so this as well has this [TS]

00:45:37   as hardware support with this feature [TS]

00:45:38   and it does it in a particularly clever [TS]

00:45:39   way such the same binary can run [TS]

00:45:43   correctly on both ships that do and [TS]

00:45:46   don't support transactional memory [TS]

00:45:47   features so they have like a little [TS]

00:45:50   prefix on their instructions and Haswell [TS]

00:45:52   processors will honor the prefix and use [TS]

00:45:54   the transactional memory stuff and the [TS]

00:45:55   rollback stuff but other processes will [TS]

00:45:57   ignore the prefix and just treated as a [TS]

00:45:59   locked command so you can write the same [TS]

00:46:00   code and an old process it just runs [TS]

00:46:02   like lock code like all these things [TS]

00:46:03   crowd to grab grab the lock and wait if [TS]

00:46:05   they can't get it and you know works the [TS]

00:46:07   old way but has well process it will try [TS]

00:46:09   to do the transaction of everything and [TS]

00:46:11   you know roll everything back of it [TS]

00:46:13   conflicted but if it didn't it'll sail [TS]

00:46:14   right through so i have my own personal [TS]

00:46:17   doubts about the practical usefulness of [TS]

00:46:18   transactional memory as do many other [TS]

00:46:20   people because it's been implemented in [TS]

00:46:21   software before and has not set the [TS]

00:46:23   world on fire despite the theoretical [TS]

00:46:25   usefulness of it may be implementing a [TS]

00:46:27   hardware will help but i'm not sure how [TS]

00:46:30   many people use these features or how [TS]

00:46:32   many people have code that is a [TS]

00:46:33   contention bound or that actually maybe [TS]

00:46:35   the locking code as annoying it is to [TS]

00:46:37   the right maybe it will actually still [TS]

00:46:39   perform better or maybe it's more [TS]

00:46:41   difficult to handle the conflict cases [TS]

00:46:44   in the case [TS]

00:46:45   transaction ah don't know but it's there [TS]

00:46:46   so that's a speculative feature and it [TS]

00:46:48   may turn out to be significant and may [TS]

00:46:49   just be like oh well I didn't quite work [TS]

00:46:52   out and also the cache bandwidth on as [TS]

00:46:55   well has doubled without any latency [TS]

00:46:57   penalty this person like to point out so [TS]

00:46:58   I put a link in the show notes that [TS]

00:47:00   anonymous recommended to the real world [TS]

00:47:02   tech article on the haswell cpu [TS]

00:47:03   architecture you can read all about it [TS]

00:47:05   oh and one more thing about I imagine [TS]

00:47:08   else unless show about has well being [TS]

00:47:10   able to wake up and sleep really quickly [TS]

00:47:13   as a way to save memory by keeping [TS]

00:47:15   everything shut down and I also [TS]

00:47:18   mentioned how until was you know on [TS]

00:47:21   people but voltage regulators and stuff [TS]

00:47:23   like that why voltage reg goes keep [TS]

00:47:25   coming up but I must have read this and [TS]

00:47:27   had it in the back of my mind why was [TS]

00:47:30   such an issue is that Intel's Haswell [TS]

00:47:32   has an on divulge regulator and that [TS]

00:47:35   allows it to wake up and sleep even more [TS]

00:47:37   quickly because I'm die but also it [TS]

00:47:39   allows it to make sure that the chip is [TS]

00:47:42   only using the voltage that it actually [TS]

00:47:43   needs to do whatever its being asked to [TS]

00:47:45   you so if half the chip is shut down [TS]

00:47:46   because you know you don't need those [TS]

00:47:48   execution units for this particular [TS]

00:47:50   micro second or whatever it's kind of a [TS]

00:47:52   shame if the voltage regulator is still [TS]

00:47:55   sending the chip like the full voltage [TS]

00:47:56   it would normally need if everything was [TS]

00:47:58   turned on so that source says the real [TS]

00:48:00   benefit is that it allows Intel to [TS]

00:48:03   throttle voltage very quickly so we can [TS]

00:48:05   operate at the most efficient voltage [TS]

00:48:06   for the for the given workload and since [TS]

00:48:08   vaulted has a quadratic effect on the [TS]

00:48:10   power consumption it's great that you [TS]

00:48:11   know it's not just linear if you have [TS]

00:48:13   the voltage you have not just have the [TS]

00:48:14   power as also you know a nice savings of [TS]

00:48:17   having thing on die instead of having a [TS]

00:48:18   separate chip or whatever so it's [TS]

00:48:21   another advantage of has well there and [TS]

00:48:23   finally this is this is the most [TS]

00:48:25   interesting part of this anonymous [TS]

00:48:26   feedback last show I spent a little [TS]

00:48:28   while talking about tick tock and how I [TS]

00:48:30   thought it was weird like one thing was [TS]

00:48:32   a tick when I thought it should be a [TS]

00:48:33   talk because it seemed to me that it was [TS]

00:48:35   like tick the important thing and then [TS]

00:48:36   talk and then tick and then the little [TS]

00:48:38   talk and I expected tick to be like Oh a [TS]

00:48:40   brand new architecture and then talk [TS]

00:48:41   would be just be shrinking and many [TS]

00:48:45   people sent me mnemonics to remember it [TS]

00:48:46   saying well tick has an eye in it and [TS]

00:48:48   shrink has an ISO tick is the shrink or [TS]

00:48:50   just remember is the opposite of the way [TS]

00:48:52   you think it is or whatever but this [TS]

00:48:54   source says the reason in dell has tick [TS]

00:48:57   first is that it thinks it was so [TS]

00:48:58   was a manufacturing company first and a [TS]

00:49:00   design house second so the reason tick [TS]

00:49:04   is the important thing like they agree [TS]

00:49:06   apparently agree with me that tick is [TS]

00:49:07   like the big important thing and that's [TS]

00:49:09   the shrink the shrinking is the [TS]

00:49:10   important part look at us we're Intel [TS]

00:49:12   we've shrunk process again now the [TS]

00:49:14   smallest feature size has gone down the [TS]

00:49:16   talk is yet we'll make new architecture [TS]

00:49:17   or whatever but tick you know we'll do [TS]

00:49:19   another shrink at another example the [TS]

00:49:21   source says is that intel says tape in [TS]

00:49:23   instead of taping out we heard the term [TS]

00:49:25   taping out never heard that never come [TS]

00:49:28   on no you build pcs yours know what I [TS]

00:49:30   heard now tapping out yeah that's [TS]

00:49:32   different so taping out is when you're [TS]

00:49:34   done designing a processor I think it [TS]

00:49:36   has to do with in that use actual tape [TS]

00:49:38   to sort of lay out how the chip was [TS]

00:49:39   going to be laid out but anyway the term [TS]

00:49:42   holds on it so you're done designing how [TS]

00:49:43   the process is going to do you tape out [TS]

00:49:45   and you send this design to your fab and [TS]

00:49:48   they build the thing that you've taped [TS]

00:49:49   out right an Intel calls it taping in [TS]

00:49:51   the source so this is probably help it [TS]

00:49:54   at healthy attitude because Intel didn't [TS]

00:49:56   have a process advantage there's not [TS]

00:49:58   much the design team could do to keep [TS]

00:50:00   x86 competitive with the arm ecosystem [TS]

00:50:02   at this point so taping inverse is [TS]

00:50:05   taping out it's a difference in mindset [TS]

00:50:08   there's no different than what actually [TS]

00:50:10   happens like they still you know send [TS]

00:50:12   the design to the fabric Intel design [TS]

00:50:15   files are converted to fab file formats [TS]

00:50:17   verified by the fab and then the masks [TS]

00:50:19   are created the difference is in mindset [TS]

00:50:21   in design shops they tape out to the fab [TS]

00:50:24   when the fab receives them they tape in [TS]

00:50:26   so Intel calls it tape in as a way of [TS]

00:50:27   making teams understand how until [TS]

00:50:29   identifies itself it's taping in they [TS]

00:50:32   get you know Intel gets the design from [TS]

00:50:34   all those designer guys who actually [TS]

00:50:35   make the chip taping in to us Intel [TS]

00:50:37   Intel doesn't tape out to anyone they [TS]

00:50:39   tape in from the people who designed the [TS]

00:50:41   chips so it's interesting and I had I [TS]

00:50:43   would not have guessed that Intel [TS]

00:50:44   thought of itself this way I would have [TS]

00:50:45   thought of thought that Intel probably [TS]

00:50:47   found itself as a great designer of [TS]

00:50:49   chips that happens to have great fabs [TS]

00:50:51   and this source seems to say that Intel [TS]

00:50:53   thinks of itself as an amazing [TS]

00:50:55   manufacturer that just happens to have a [TS]

00:50:57   team of people who design chips it did [TS]

00:50:58   then manufacturers after they tape in [TS]

00:51:00   the designs tap it out and and this is I [TS]

00:51:05   didn't plan this but here you go right [TS]

00:51:07   after it the we're going to the [TS]

00:51:08   miscellaneous follow up about tape cell [TS]

00:51:11   scotch tape I thought we'd put this to [TS]

00:51:13   bed no not possible apparently some [TS]

00:51:17   follow up on the bed oh I'd mentioned [TS]

00:51:18   the sticky back plastic and that some TV [TS]

00:51:21   show was ridiculed for using sticky back [TS]

00:51:24   plastic this clarification from Mike [TS]

00:51:27   Richmond says sticky back plastic refers [TS]

00:51:30   to fab lon I think it's a name brand [TS]

00:51:32   it's the generic name for the you know [TS]

00:51:35   the brand name is fab lon it's think [TS]

00:51:36   about plastic as a generic name the BBC [TS]

00:51:39   show that was infamous for using sticky [TS]

00:51:41   back plastic was called Blue Peter and [TS]

00:51:43   it seemed to require it for almost all [TS]

00:51:45   day Aug that implement shows yes it was [TS]

00:51:48   the frequent usage of sticky back [TS]

00:51:50   plastic which was the subject of [TS]

00:51:51   derision and parody not the fact that [TS]

00:51:53   they were using the term to mean sticky [TS]

00:51:54   tape biggest Iggy back plastic is like a [TS]

00:51:56   big clear plastic sheet that happens to [TS]

00:51:59   be sticky it's not tape and so I googled [TS]

00:52:02   what the hell blue peter is and [TS]

00:52:04   apparently the wikipedia page says the [TS]

00:52:07   first broadcast in 1958 is the world's [TS]

00:52:09   longest-running children's television [TS]

00:52:11   program but then they spelled program [TS]

00:52:13   with an e because you know it's British [TS]

00:52:15   yeah they're fancy over there yeah so [TS]

00:52:17   there you go stinky back plastic not the [TS]

00:52:19   same thing as sticky tape or sellotape [TS]

00:52:21   show that used it not ridiculed for [TS]

00:52:23   using the term but because they use the [TS]

00:52:24   material all the time and apparently the [TS]

00:52:26   name brand is fab lon babe blonde fat [TS]

00:52:28   blonde battlin sure yeah and finally the [TS]

00:52:32   last people's piece of follow-up boy [TS]

00:52:33   this is a follow-up heavy shower I would [TS]

00:52:36   like to wish happy birthday to joshua [TS]

00:52:37   jones AKA mine fat who was in our chat [TS]

00:52:40   room right now Wow maker of nintendo [TS]

00:52:43   icons uh uh that i collected way back in [TS]

00:52:46   my youth and i saw him in a chat room [TS]

00:52:48   and asked if he was the guy who made [TS]

00:52:50   them and he said yes and he sent me a [TS]

00:52:52   big archive of all his icons and i love [TS]

00:52:54   icons i love nintendo and i know it's [TS]

00:52:56   his birthday fix his friend emailed me [TS]

00:52:59   and told me his friend did not provide a [TS]

00:53:00   pronunciation guide for his name but [TS]

00:53:02   i'll go for it anyway achille kenyatta [TS]

00:53:04   sent me an email and said that joshua [TS]

00:53:07   jones really appreciate it we got a [TS]

00:53:08   happy birthday greeting even though this [TS]

00:53:09   is not as he noted a radio call-in show [TS]

00:53:11   where we have birthday shoutouts to be [TS]

00:53:13   that would i have like a little like a [TS]

00:53:15   little thing for that yeah it's probably [TS]

00:53:18   too late in the history that showed us [TS]

00:53:19   to add that though that's not the [TS]

00:53:20   morning zoo yeah i know you want to do [TS]

00:53:22   the mornings if I do will you be on that [TS]

00:53:23   no [TS]

00:53:24   don't be i won't be on the morning [TS]

00:53:27   anything ok ah but there you go happy [TS]

00:53:29   birthday to mine fat all right we got [TS]

00:53:34   take a breather here how why don't ya [TS]

00:53:37   you do need one why don't we do is [TS]

00:53:38   second is it time was it appropriate [TS]

00:53:40   time it's it's time it is the right time [TS]

00:53:43   I've got all your links open so [TS]

00:53:45   everything's a little turned around tell [TS]

00:53:46   you about shutterstock.com where you [TS]

00:53:47   find over 20 million stock photos they [TS]

00:53:51   got vectors they got you they got your [TS]

00:53:52   illustrations they got your video clips [TS]

00:53:54   but what they are they're really cool [TS]

00:53:57   they work with tons and tons of [TS]

00:53:58   independent content creators all around [TS]

00:54:00   the world whether they're photographers [TS]

00:54:02   or people who draw stuff and they make [TS]

00:54:05   all of this stuff available to you it's [TS]

00:54:07   very very easy to search for the thing [TS]

00:54:09   that you're looking for why would you [TS]

00:54:10   want this maybe get an iOS app maybe [TS]

00:54:11   you're building a website maybe you want [TS]

00:54:13   something for your mug or your tote bag [TS]

00:54:15   doesn't matter they have something that [TS]

00:54:18   will work for you maybe it's a [TS]

00:54:19   presentation maybe you're about to go [TS]

00:54:21   pitch your your new idea buildings you [TS]

00:54:24   building one of those decks and you got [TS]

00:54:25   the VC sitting there you want to show [TS]

00:54:26   them some cool tons of reasons why you [TS]

00:54:28   might want to look at this stuff they [TS]

00:54:30   make it really easy to find everything [TS]

00:54:31   and organize it into these light boxes [TS]

00:54:33   and then you can take these light boxes [TS]

00:54:35   and you can share them and share them [TS]

00:54:36   with other people on your team you can [TS]

00:54:38   share with your friends whatever it is [TS]

00:54:39   they can all work together they'd all [TS]

00:54:40   work together to come up with something [TS]

00:54:43   that'll be perfect then you put it [TS]

00:54:44   together as a package then you buy it [TS]

00:54:45   they give you the high high high [TS]

00:54:47   resolution stuff it's just one price for [TS]

00:54:49   everything they don't nickel and dime [TS]

00:54:50   you and it's more affordable than you [TS]

00:54:52   might think they have an iPad app by the [TS]

00:54:55   way that makes this lightbox and [TS]

00:54:56   curation stuff really easy then they got [TS]

00:54:58   24 hour support during the week you [TS]

00:55:01   don't need to give them anything so just [TS]

00:55:02   go there and browse and check it out and [TS]

00:55:03   doing that will help support this show [TS]

00:55:05   to help support the whole network so you [TS]

00:55:08   go do shutterstock.com and browse around [TS]

00:55:11   when you figure out the thing that you [TS]

00:55:12   want to get use the code Dan sent me 11 [TS]

00:55:16   dan sent me a lemon and you'll get [TS]

00:55:18   thirty percent off which is big so go [TS]

00:55:22   check it out shutterstock.com dan sent [TS]

00:55:24   me 11 thanks very much to shutterstock [TS]

00:55:26   for making these shows possible you're [TS]

00:55:30   saying you know you used to build your [TS]

00:55:32   deck I'm like why would you need stock [TS]

00:55:33   photos to build a deck like oh okay [TS]

00:55:37   all right not it not a wooden deck back [TS]

00:55:39   at your house so the kids call it these [TS]

00:55:42   days you get to build your deck now [TS]

00:55:45   isn't the kids say yeah I just want to [TS]

00:55:48   clarify that joshua jones his birthday [TS]

00:55:51   is on december third it's not today but [TS]

00:55:53   hey who knows maybe what time you're [TS]

00:55:54   listening to this it will be december [TS]

00:55:55   third if you were thinking of sending [TS]

00:55:57   him a card / gift or were you or [TS]

00:56:00   anything because he does like Nintendo [TS]

00:56:02   and I'm not sin all right just track [TS]

00:56:05   just you all right so the topic for [TS]

00:56:08   today's show the one and only lonely [TS]

00:56:10   topic hmm I could be long and it could [TS]

00:56:16   be a short one okay I know it's not blue [TS]

00:56:18   peter know that is a funny name it is [TS]

00:56:21   funny no it's not blue peter although a [TS]

00:56:25   lot of things a lot of British things [TS]

00:56:26   sound like unintentional innuendos to [TS]

00:56:30   American people this is the times like [TS]

00:56:35   this when you wish from are one of us [TS]

00:56:37   here I knew to riff on blue peter north [TS]

00:56:39   yeah no one no one does it better no no [TS]

00:56:42   one does need sexual innuendo dance [TS]

00:56:44   better than better than Maryland does [TS]

00:56:47   yes sir if only if only saying his name [TS]

00:56:50   three times made him appear less or made [TS]

00:56:52   him go away it's that doesn't work to [TS]

00:56:54   non one smelled to go no one does know [TS]

00:56:56   once you call him out he's there to help [TS]

00:56:59   it's like Bill juice yeah now John [TS]

00:57:02   Roderick is there to help Merlin is [TS]

00:57:04   there to help John who's there to help [TS]

00:57:06   plus it's complicated relations yeah [TS]

00:57:08   that's the drug diagram alright so this [TS]

00:57:12   is going to be you know like in sitcoms [TS]

00:57:14   in the 80s sitcom would start and it'll [TS]

00:57:17   be funny and you'd watch it and then [TS]

00:57:19   like somewhere around I don't know like [TS]

00:57:22   season two and a half they would have [TS]

00:57:25   they would have a very special episode I [TS]

00:57:28   love those it'd be like you know like I [TS]

00:57:32   can different strokes like you'd watch [TS]

00:57:34   this funny show about these adopted [TS]

00:57:36   children and their rich snooty father [TS]

00:57:38   and the clash of cultures or whatever [TS]

00:57:41   and it would be funny and then they have [TS]

00:57:42   a show about sexual abuse right never be [TS]

00:57:45   like out of nowhere so and then it would [TS]

00:57:47   say this week on a very special [TS]

00:57:49   different story [TS]

00:57:50   well here you go this this is the man I [TS]

00:57:53   can't do the boys this week on a very [TS]

00:57:57   special hypercritical we're not going to [TS]

00:57:59   talk about sexual abuse but it's going [TS]

00:58:01   to be more of a touchy feely topic then [TS]

00:58:03   pass shows or indeed about the then they [TS]

00:58:07   follow up about chip-making and fabbing [TS]

00:58:10   wii u accelerometers and all that stuff [TS]

00:58:13   ah and i thought of this topic because [TS]

00:58:16   not because it's new because anyone who [TS]

00:58:19   is read any of these things that i'm [TS]

00:58:20   going to cite and putting the show notes [TS]

00:58:22   notice that many of them are like half a [TS]

00:58:24   year old or older but because there was [TS]

00:58:26   just one more article like I always put [TS]

00:58:27   these in mines to paper queue and I [TS]

00:58:29   happen to read it the other day and I [TS]

00:58:30   said you know what this is this is worth [TS]

00:58:31   talking about on the show even if it is [TS]

00:58:34   you know a very special episode maybe [TS]

00:58:37   that will be the title this episode [TS]

00:58:38   maybe more so we're gonna start you know [TS]

00:58:42   where this is going cuz you seen the [TS]

00:58:43   show notes yeah the people in the chat [TS]

00:58:44   room don't I'm going to start with [TS]

00:58:46   something from the ever handy know your [TS]

00:58:49   meme site which is good for old people [TS]

00:58:51   yeah I was just gonna say like people [TS]

00:58:53   like us we really need this this site [TS]

00:58:55   that's right cuz now I mean not just all [TS]

00:58:57   people i find it even young people young [TS]

00:58:59   people don't know the old people's memes [TS]

00:59:00   and vice versa so anyone you unknown to [TS]

00:59:02   me means you can look it up here and [TS]

00:59:04   then the description this mean makes me [TS]

00:59:06   feel old maybe you'll agree this is the [TS]

00:59:08   fake geek girl meme which is not a new [TS]

00:59:12   me amiss product link in the show notes [TS]

00:59:14   to know your main page it's listed as [TS]

00:59:18   idiot nerd girl but it's you know the [TS]

00:59:19   same thing all right here's the [TS]

00:59:21   description from the site idiot nerd [TS]

00:59:23   girl is an advice animal image macro [TS]

00:59:26   series yes all those words are in that [TS]

00:59:27   order on the site featuring a photo of a [TS]

00:59:30   teenage girl wearing thick-rimmed [TS]

00:59:31   glasses with the word nerd written on [TS]

00:59:33   the palm of her hand the upper caption [TS]

00:59:34   often contains a reference to geek [TS]

00:59:36   culture while the bottom caption [TS]

00:59:37   demonstrates a lack of knowledge or [TS]

00:59:38   expertise in the subject and then they [TS]

00:59:41   say it bears many similarities to [TS]

00:59:42   technologically impaired duck and [TS]

00:59:44   musically oblivious 8th grade by seven [TS]

00:59:46   now i had never heard the term advice [TS]

00:59:48   animal image i had neither advice animal [TS]

00:59:50   image macro series sounds like you know [TS]

00:59:52   some sort of a random text generator [TS]

00:59:55   using a spam email but they call it [TS]

00:59:58   advice and I'm sure if I you looked up [TS]

00:59:58   advice and I'm sure if I you looked up [TS]

01:00:00   know your meme that would explain [TS]

01:00:00   exactly what advice animal is and where [TS]

01:00:02   that comes from but I didn't look at [TS]

01:00:03   that but if you have once you see it [TS]

01:00:06   you'll know what they're talking about [TS]

01:00:07   like oh those things with the weird [TS]

01:00:09   background with the bright colors and [TS]

01:00:10   the spirals and it shows some probably [TS]

01:00:12   give you a template on a site to make [TS]

01:00:14   your own yeah it is even if you don't [TS]

01:00:16   know these terms you know what the kind [TS]

01:00:18   of thing they're talking about and so [TS]

01:00:20   the idiot nerd girl is it's got a [TS]

01:00:22   picture of this poor girl whoever she [TS]

01:00:23   actually is uh is making fun of girls [TS]

01:00:27   who uh seem to be nerds but don't [TS]

01:00:30   actually know anything about the you [TS]

01:00:33   know don't actually know anything about [TS]

01:00:34   nerd culture right because as a [TS]

01:00:36   comparison to pretty much are almost our [TS]

01:00:38   entire lives yours in mine and probably [TS]

01:00:41   many of our listeners being a nerd or [TS]

01:00:43   geek was not like maybe it was [TS]

01:00:46   acceptable but it was not cool now it's [TS]

01:00:48   cool it's cool to the point that you [TS]

01:00:50   will have a girl like you're saying who [TS]

01:00:51   is it has no actual knowledge or [TS]

01:00:54   connection to any kind of geek culture [TS]

01:00:55   posing posing is the word right yeah [TS]

01:01:00   that is what this meme is doing its [TS]

01:01:02   trying to make fun of people this this [TS]

01:01:04   type of person who is a girl who is it [TS]

01:01:07   seems to be a nerd but isn't really [TS]

01:01:09   because they don't know anything about [TS]

01:01:10   that aren't stuck right so that's the [TS]

01:01:11   mean the next article have in the show [TS]

01:01:15   notes is by Tara Tiger Brown it's titled [TS]

01:01:19   dear fake geek girls please go away and [TS]

01:01:22   it is against the people who are [TS]

01:01:25   described in this meme here's a quote [TS]

01:01:27   from the article pretentious females who [TS]

01:01:30   have labeled themselves a geek girl in [TS]

01:01:32   quotes figured out the guys will pay a [TS]

01:01:34   lot of tension to them if they proclaim [TS]

01:01:35   their reading comics for playing video [TS]

01:01:37   games celebrities dressing up as geeks [TS]

01:01:39   to reach larger audience Richard Branson [TS]

01:01:41   labeled himself a geek for crying out [TS]

01:01:42   loud how do we separate the geeks from [TS]

01:01:44   the muck this is also related to Patton [TS]

01:01:48   Oswalt's piece in Wired magazine from a [TS]

01:01:50   while ago I called wake up geek culture [TS]

01:01:53   time to die about the dilution of geek [TS]

01:01:58   culture by people who aren't you know [TS]

01:02:00   quote unquote really geeks if we [TS]

01:02:02   actually addressed this on the [TS]

01:02:03   incomparable way back in episode 28 [TS]

01:02:05   entitled bed at high school I put a link [TS]

01:02:07   in the show notes if you'd like to hear [TS]

01:02:08   a discussion of this Patton Oswalt [TS]

01:02:10   article decrying the [TS]

01:02:13   geek culture by people who don't know [TS]

01:02:14   all the things the geeks are supposed to [TS]

01:02:16   know that is kind of a superset of the [TS]

01:02:18   fake geek girl thing which specifically [TS]

01:02:19   about girls diluting geek culture there [TS]

01:02:22   aren't really geeks they don't really [TS]

01:02:23   know anything about comics they just [TS]

01:02:24   like to pretend they're geeks okay so [TS]

01:02:27   that's the that's the context those are [TS]

01:02:29   the memes here the Mary Sue is a website [TS]

01:02:32   dedicated like yeah eat girl type of [TS]

01:02:36   things and they had a response to the [TS]

01:02:39   fake geek girl I'm gonna try to advise [TS]

01:02:41   animal Nikki girl advice animal name [TS]

01:02:44   they did their own meme for the geek [TS]

01:02:46   girl meme which sort of like counter [TS]

01:02:47   meme using the same images but just [TS]

01:02:49   changing the text on the top I put a [TS]

01:02:52   link in the show so this is well yeah [TS]

01:02:54   quote from it memes are hard to kill [TS]

01:02:56   it's basically their definition and [TS]

01:02:57   easiest way to deal with them is by [TS]

01:02:58   trying to ignore them but this one we [TS]

01:03:00   wouldn't mind eradicating from the [TS]

01:03:01   internet it would be the idiot nerd girl [TS]

01:03:03   advice animal meme it's emblematic the [TS]

01:03:05   persistently idea that it tells people [TS]

01:03:07   it's okay to nestle call women out for [TS]

01:03:09   not being quote authentically geeky [TS]

01:03:10   unquote enough it's basically the idea [TS]

01:03:12   that you can use the old middle school [TS]

01:03:13   tactic of calling people posers which by [TS]

01:03:15   the way you just did then a little while [TS]

01:03:17   ago and describing this because they [TS]

01:03:20   don't adhere to your own particular [TS]

01:03:21   rules as to what qualifies as a geek or [TS]

01:03:23   because they happen to have boobs and [TS]

01:03:24   read comic books so this is their [TS]

01:03:26   counter meme which is a clever way to [TS]

01:03:29   counter this type of thing using the [TS]

01:03:31   same imagery with different text to make [TS]

01:03:34   fun of the people who are trying to make [TS]

01:03:35   fun of the idiot nerd girls basically [TS]

01:03:37   you know pointing out that the idiot [TS]

01:03:40   nerd girl meme is very similar to people [TS]

01:03:42   calling people and posters in the middle [TS]

01:03:43   school cafeteria which was a very [TS]

01:03:45   popular thing to do I can attest I don't [TS]

01:03:47   they still do that I assume I posers and [TS]

01:03:49   that's evergreen right I think so [TS]

01:03:51   holders I think so yes maybe let less of [TS]

01:03:54   it now no no find out when I could to [TS]

01:03:57   get the middle school unfortunately I'm [TS]

01:03:58   sure all right uh so there's some more [TS]

01:04:02   context up for the meme now finally this [TS]

01:04:04   is the article that made me want to talk [TS]

01:04:05   about this topic it is by alex hern this [TS]

01:04:08   one is actually a recent article i think [TS]

01:04:09   it's been in the past few weeks or so is [TS]

01:04:12   entitled oh god I gotta drink gotta take [TS]

01:04:14   a drink of water you have one more [TS]

01:04:15   sponsor do you want to do yeah and do [TS]

01:04:17   right now and do whatever what I'm [TS]

01:04:18   whatever you want to do whenever you're [TS]

01:04:19   ready source that's huh mobile app [TS]

01:04:21   development house they help you develop [TS]

01:04:23   and design your next application or game [TS]

01:04:25   be instantly put over 300 dedicated [TS]

01:04:28   programmers and interface designers [TS]

01:04:30   behind your project full time how's that [TS]

01:04:31   possible John siracusa would say well [TS]

01:04:34   they're full development shop and they [TS]

01:04:38   take lots of projects so when you show [TS]

01:04:40   up and you say this is my this is my [TS]

01:04:42   idea this is the thing I want to build I [TS]

01:04:44   want a website that ties into a mobile [TS]

01:04:47   app on for iOS and another one for [TS]

01:04:48   Android they can build all of this or [TS]

01:04:51   maybe you're an iOS developer and you [TS]

01:04:52   don't want to do the website you don't [TS]

01:04:53   want to do the database back-end you're [TS]

01:04:54   not interested in that because it's [TS]

01:04:56   outside of your wheelhouse right well [TS]

01:04:59   that's fine they'll do the parts you [TS]

01:05:01   don't want to do or they'll do [TS]

01:05:03   everything and they've got a really [TS]

01:05:05   great track record more than 500 [TS]

01:05:07   applications they built for mobile web [TS]

01:05:10   desktop platforms I can do everything 20 [TS]

01:05:12   of which have reached top 10 in global [TS]

01:05:14   application marketplaces they're really [TS]

01:05:16   really great to have the ant and [TS]

01:05:17   strategy you show up with a little [TS]

01:05:19   sketch on a napkin doesn't matter [TS]

01:05:20   they'll do whatever you want and they're [TS]

01:05:23   really they can scale up and they take [TS]

01:05:25   small projects to you don't have to be a [TS]

01:05:27   fortune 500 company to work with these [TS]

01:05:28   guys figure to source bits calm they [TS]

01:05:32   just redesign this and looks great [TS]

01:05:33   there's a big button in the middle of [TS]

01:05:36   sis work I guess it's a button looks [TS]

01:05:38   kind of like a honeycomb you click on [TS]

01:05:40   the work one and you can see all of the [TS]

01:05:41   stuff that they've built they build [TS]

01:05:42   games at the web stuff consumer mobile [TS]

01:05:45   enterprise mobile you name it just click [TS]

01:05:47   around and see some of the applications [TS]

01:05:48   that they build I bet some of them are [TS]

01:05:50   on your phone right now go check them [TS]

01:05:52   out longtime sponsor VARs out in sunny [TS]

01:05:54   California San Francisco source bits com [TS]

01:05:57   please do check them out they make these [TS]

01:06:02   shows possible John people in chat room [TS]

01:06:04   have pointed out some things that I did [TS]

01:06:05   not put into my notes I don't know if I [TS]

01:06:07   would work them in maybe it will do it [TS]

01:06:08   in some follow-up for this uh related to [TS]

01:06:11   this area that we're about to talk about [TS]

01:06:14   and cited before those memes is the the [TS]

01:06:17   show Big Bang Theory you watch that I [TS]

01:06:19   have not watched it to the dismay of [TS]

01:06:21   pretty much everybody who's ever met me [TS]

01:06:23   but i'm going to start watching it yeah [TS]

01:06:27   it's done I mean it's all done I don't [TS]

01:06:30   know son so big bang theory is a sitcom [TS]

01:06:32   I don't watch it either I saw like part [TS]

01:06:34   of a couple episodes to know people are [TS]

01:06:36   talking about at like you many people [TS]

01:06:37   tell me that I should [TS]

01:06:39   this including my own mother tell me [TS]

01:06:40   this one also oh I don't watch a show i [TS]

01:06:43   have read many articles about the show [TS]

01:06:45   and most many of the articles are [TS]

01:06:48   arguments amongst geeks as to whether [TS]

01:06:52   the geeks on Big Bang Theory are [TS]

01:06:54   represented in a way that celebrates [TS]

01:06:57   them or that is a that ridicules them or [TS]

01:07:01   it the term that keep coming keeps [TS]

01:07:04   coming up with big bank there any part [TS]

01:07:06   of the reason I'm not evening that going [TS]

01:07:07   to talk about it goes off an entirely [TS]

01:07:09   other tangent that's probably offensive [TS]

01:07:11   to many people and I will emphasize that [TS]

01:07:12   I did not make up this term nor have I [TS]

01:07:14   spoken and written it or endorsed it in [TS]

01:07:17   any way but it is repeatedly referred to [TS]

01:07:18   on the web is that big bang theory is [TS]

01:07:20   nerd black face and you can imagine why [TS]

01:07:23   that is offensive and makes no sense in [TS]

01:07:25   many different ways but you can also [TS]

01:07:27   figure out what what are they trying to [TS]

01:07:29   communicate through their indelicate [TS]

01:07:32   terminology and we're trying to [TS]

01:07:33   communicate as they think the big bang [TS]

01:07:35   theory uh does it disservice to nerds [TS]

01:07:38   that it's not a celebration of thirds or [TS]

01:07:40   whatever so that's a whole other [TS]

01:07:40   conversation but it's definitely related [TS]

01:07:42   but I'm not going to talk about that [TS]

01:07:43   here because we're on something else um [TS]

01:07:45   so anyway the article by alex hern nerds [TS]

01:07:49   stop hating women please this article [TS]

01:07:52   starts by introducing Tony Harris who is [TS]

01:07:55   have you heard of Tony Harris before [TS]

01:07:56   looking at this article not before this [TS]

01:07:58   article yo you may actually know him or [TS]

01:08:00   his work so the arca says he's in no way [TS]

01:08:03   a household name but he's artist behind [TS]

01:08:05   some of the most critically acclaimed [TS]

01:08:06   comics of last 20 years notably Starman [TS]

01:08:08   with james robinson for DC and ex [TS]

01:08:10   machina with bryan cave on the wildstar [TS]

01:08:12   you know if any of those properties i [TS]

01:08:14   know of them they're not things that I I [TS]

01:08:16   mean vol not you're not into but aren't [TS]

01:08:18   slate so maybe comics people would [TS]

01:08:20   notice but Tony Harris is probably one [TS]

01:08:22   of the artists I assume he's not the [TS]

01:08:23   writer based on what their his writing [TS]

01:08:25   that is copy and pasted into this [TS]

01:08:26   article because surely this person is [TS]

01:08:28   not a writer ha if you don't look at [TS]

01:08:31   yeah I'm gonna read a substantial [TS]

01:08:32   portion of it but you were to really get [TS]

01:08:34   the feel you have to really see the [TS]

01:08:35   gigantic crazy person wall of text [TS]

01:08:37   filled with misspellings and capital [TS]

01:08:38   letters and bad puns data bad [TS]

01:08:40   punctuation but that's not what's [TS]

01:08:41   offensive that's not the thing that [TS]

01:08:43   about this that's offensive that I'm [TS]

01:08:45   going to talk about it's the content so [TS]

01:08:47   here is a rant that Tony Harris posted [TS]

01:08:50   on his Facebook wall which has [TS]

01:08:52   since been removed apparently because I [TS]

01:08:53   follow the link and it's gone and you [TS]

01:08:55   can kind of understand why it was [TS]

01:08:56   removed once I read you some passages [TS]

01:08:57   from it so start with a little bit of [TS]

01:09:02   his intro he says I appreciate a pretty [TS]

01:09:04   gal as nuts as much as the next hetero [TS]

01:09:06   male but I'm so sick entirely gonna [TS]

01:09:09   capitalized H capitalized him head I [TS]

01:09:11   don't want I don't want if I have to add [TS]

01:09:13   the Sun all miss phone just I want [TS]

01:09:15   people to get the flavor of the way he's [TS]

01:09:18   going on about it as yet another me and [TS]

01:09:21   would say this text passage has a flavor [TS]

01:09:23   and it's not good anyway I'm so sick and [TS]

01:09:28   tired of the whole cosplay chicks chicks [TS]

01:09:31   spelled wrong cosplay in all caps here's [TS]

01:09:34   a statement i want to make based on the [TS]

01:09:36   rule all caps hey Kwazii pretty not hot [TS]

01:09:39   girl you are more pathetic than the real [TS]

01:09:42   nerds who you secretly think are really [TS]

01:09:44   pathetic but we're onto you some of us [TS]

01:09:46   are aware that you're ever so average on [TS]

01:09:48   a daily basis but you have a couple of [TS]

01:09:50   things going your way you're willing to [TS]

01:09:52   become almost completely naked in public [TS]

01:09:54   and you're skinny well some of you think [TS]

01:09:56   you are or you have big boobies notice I [TS]

01:09:58   didn't say great boobies you are what I [TS]

01:10:00   refer to as khan hot you can see where [TS]

01:10:03   this rant is going cosplay by the ways [TS]

01:10:05   when people dress up in costumes as [TS]

01:10:08   their favorite characters and go to a [TS]

01:10:10   convention or not to go to convention a [TS]

01:10:13   dressing up with your favorite [TS]

01:10:14   characters from some fiction thing [TS]

01:10:15   you're interested in comic books movies [TS]

01:10:16   or whatever yeah so he's referring to [TS]

01:10:21   these people as khan hot and says one of [TS]

01:10:24   the things that i'll have in common all [TS]

01:10:26   these geeky boys of these conventions [TS]

01:10:28   they're being preyed on by you you have [TS]

01:10:30   this really awful need for attention for [TS]

01:10:32   people to tell you you're prettier hot [TS]

01:10:33   and here's the reason why all that [TS]

01:10:36   sickens us because you don't know s [TS]

01:10:39   which i can't say on the show about [TS]

01:10:40   comics beyond whatever google image [TS]

01:10:42   search you did to get the ref on the [TS]

01:10:44   swimming humans reference on the most [TS]

01:10:46   mainstream character with most revealing [TS]

01:10:47   costume ever if any of these guys do you [TS]

01:10:51   hang out with try to talk to you outside [TS]

01:10:53   of that con you wouldn't give them the [TS]

01:10:54   effing time of day shut up your damn [TS]

01:10:56   liar no you would not you're not you're [TS]

01:10:59   not comics you're just the thing that [TS]

01:11:01   all comic book and mainstream press [TS]

01:11:03   flock to it cons [TS]

01:11:04   the real reason for the con and the damn [TS]

01:11:07   costumes you're parading around and that [TS]

01:11:09   would be the comic book artists in the [TS]

01:11:10   comic writers who make all this stuff up [TS]

01:11:12   I remove parts of that rant but yes [TS]

01:11:16   that's the gist of it I think you can [TS]

01:11:17   get the feel for where this person is [TS]

01:11:20   coming from and how it relates to the [TS]

01:11:21   fake geek girl meme with a specific [TS]

01:11:23   focus on cosplay in this point you know [TS]

01:11:25   these people dressing up this way and [TS]

01:11:27   they're not you know real geeks so this [TS]

01:11:31   this is leaving me into what this [TS]

01:11:33   article is about and this particular [TS]

01:11:35   strain of fake geek girl Nina stuff is [TS]

01:11:37   leading me into is the section of the [TS]

01:11:40   show or which I call let's talk about [TS]

01:11:43   misogyny dan is that a good recurring [TS]

01:11:45   segment yes I'm it maybe you won't [TS]

01:11:48   reoccur at all maybe this will be the [TS]

01:11:49   only one but let's talk about misogyny [TS]

01:11:50   alright and if you're listening you [TS]

01:11:52   don't know what misogyny is that's the [TS]

01:11:54   hatred of women by men right from the [TS]

01:11:56   West End dictionary very succinct [TS]

01:11:58   definition but let's also talk about [TS]

01:12:01   geek culture because I think that [TS]

01:12:04   actually is on topic for the show so our [TS]

01:12:07   geek culture or something I'm observer [TS]

01:12:09   of but I'm also part of as a geek and I [TS]

01:12:12   think it's on topic of the show because [TS]

01:12:14   you could subtitle this section what's [TS]

01:12:17   wrong with geek culture we haven't had [TS]

01:12:19   one of those what's wrong with for a [TS]

01:12:21   while no and as part of this I want to [TS]

01:12:25   talk about one of the causes of misogyny [TS]

01:12:28   there are many causes of misogyny as [TS]

01:12:30   there are causes of any you know many [TS]

01:12:32   causes of any kind of hatred but there's [TS]

01:12:34   one in particular that's relevant to [TS]

01:12:35   Tony Harris's terribly spelled [TS]

01:12:38   incoherent screed that I just read [TS]

01:12:41   passages from but before I get into that [TS]

01:12:45   I want to say I'm not going to describe [TS]

01:12:47   a cause of misogyny as a way to explain [TS]

01:12:50   away or excuse or justify the behavior a [TS]

01:12:53   lot of times people trying to explain [TS]

01:12:55   like let me explain to you why why [TS]

01:12:56   someone does something the explanation [TS]

01:12:58   is either seen as or really as meant as [TS]

01:13:01   a justification is like no you don't [TS]

01:13:02   understand yes this person did this bad [TS]

01:13:04   thing but let me tell you why they did [TS]

01:13:06   this bad thing and when they don't [TS]

01:13:08   explain to you feel like osu are you [TS]

01:13:10   saying that all right now that I [TS]

01:13:12   understand why they did that it's okay [TS]

01:13:13   like now all I see why they do now make [TS]

01:13:15   sense to me and whether the person [TS]

01:13:17   intended [TS]

01:13:18   not that's kind of feeling so on ahead [TS]

01:13:19   that often say my explanation of why why [TS]

01:13:22   this exists is not meant as an excuse or [TS]

01:13:26   like oh now I get it now makes sense to [TS]

01:13:28   me that was perfectly justified I'm [TS]

01:13:30   going to describe it because I hope it [TS]

01:13:32   will help the people who behave this way [TS]

01:13:33   to stop behaving this way it's not aimed [TS]

01:13:36   at the outside world who observe this [TS]

01:13:40   behavior it's aimed at the people who [TS]

01:13:41   perpetrate it and this is part of the [TS]

01:13:44   sort of you know you met a point for [TS]

01:13:47   this in this entire show and my original [TS]

01:13:49   hypercritical article and ARS technica [TS]

01:13:51   way back when the idea that [TS]

01:13:53   understanding why you do something is a [TS]

01:13:57   pretty important first step in stopping [TS]

01:14:00   doing it because if you don't know why [TS]

01:14:01   you're doing things you're just doing [TS]

01:14:03   things and you don't understand the [TS]

01:14:04   causes of how are you ever going to [TS]

01:14:06   change your behavior you don't even [TS]

01:14:07   understand what's causing the behavior [TS]

01:14:08   in the first place and you know it [TS]

01:14:10   figuring out what's wrong with something [TS]

01:14:12   what's going wrong what's causing this [TS]

01:14:13   to happen not just within yourself with [TS]

01:14:15   anything is you know and a particular [TS]

01:14:18   strain of criticism self-criticism so [TS]

01:14:21   that's why I'm gonna try to explain this [TS]

01:14:23   and this explosion is not earth [TS]

01:14:24   shattering or whatever but but here we [TS]

01:14:27   go so nerdy geeky guys of which there [TS]

01:14:30   are probably many listening to the show [TS]

01:14:31   and hosting the show uh are so many many [TS]

01:14:37   hosts many listeners yes are often you [TS]

01:14:40   know socially isolated or ridicule [TS]

01:14:42   during childhood to varying degrees [TS]

01:14:44   would you say this this is an accurate [TS]

01:14:46   assessment very childhood yes absolutely [TS]

01:14:48   and so you know this happens sometimes [TS]

01:14:53   because of our awkwardness or interests [TS]

01:14:57   or you know just a combination of things [TS]

01:14:59   it's not it doesn't have to be one type [TS]

01:15:01   of thing and in sort of the Lord of the [TS]

01:15:02   Flies world of middle school in high [TS]

01:15:03   school this usually means greatly [TS]

01:15:06   decreased desirability to the opposite [TS]

01:15:08   sex I think you would agree with that it [TS]

01:15:11   can mean that is yes alright so this [TS]

01:15:14   leads to the following situation so so [TS]

01:15:18   you've got a you know adolescent [TS]

01:15:20   heterosexual male right and he's a geek [TS]

01:15:22   all right but like any other adolescent [TS]

01:15:25   heterosexual male that geek boy is [TS]

01:15:28   really really really interested to girls [TS]

01:15:30   just happens biologically [TS]

01:15:32   trust me it's it is an all-consuming [TS]

01:15:35   thing that happens at that time in a [TS]

01:15:37   young boy's life right mm-hmm inevitable [TS]

01:15:40   yes but he doesn't get what he wants [TS]

01:15:44   he's wants girls but because of all the [TS]

01:15:47   mixers to mention about the geeks and [TS]

01:15:49   and you know it's just generally being [TS]

01:15:50   ostracized and awkward and strange and [TS]

01:15:53   interested in weird stuff uh he can't [TS]

01:15:55   get no as the man says right yes hey [TS]

01:15:58   that was the widest reading of yeah I'm [TS]

01:16:01   fine by whatever but there you go uh he [TS]

01:16:04   doesn't get what he wants all right and [TS]

01:16:06   so this this formula can easily lead to [TS]

01:16:08   anger the you know geek boy really wants [TS]

01:16:11   this thing and you can't get it every [TS]

01:16:14   time tries to get it he fails and feels [TS]

01:16:16   worse uh and it's kind of like a [TS]

01:16:18   toddler's tantrum something that I'm [TS]

01:16:21   sure you and I are both very familiar [TS]

01:16:22   with way too familiar with at this point [TS]

01:16:24   where you know like you have a three or [TS]

01:16:26   four year old if they want something you [TS]

01:16:28   know they want the cookie or they want [TS]

01:16:29   the toy or they don't want to take a [TS]

01:16:30   bath or whatever and you and you deny [TS]

01:16:32   them the things they want they throw a [TS]

01:16:33   tantrum to stamp their feet they were [TS]

01:16:34   scream and yell yeah I want the bus like [TS]

01:16:36   the end of the way just in coherently [TS]

01:16:38   flail out with anger all right and that [TS]

01:16:41   kind of tantrum response we associate [TS]

01:16:43   that with a toddler because you know if [TS]

01:16:44   you saw an adult do that if you did it [TS]

01:16:46   if an adult didn't get a raise in the [TS]

01:16:47   office and he goes in the floor lies in [TS]

01:16:49   the floor and stomped his feet in his [TS]

01:16:50   hands and yells and screams and cries [TS]

01:16:52   that he really wants that raised we [TS]

01:16:54   would say that's not appropriate [TS]

01:16:55   behavior for an adult right but those [TS]

01:16:57   pathways and our brains are still in us [TS]

01:17:00   even as adults and certainly certainly [TS]

01:17:01   as pre teens and adolescents like even [TS]

01:17:04   though we know that you're not supposed [TS]

01:17:05   to throw tantrums or whatever that [TS]

01:17:06   connection I want something I'm not [TS]

01:17:09   getting it I'm angry now incoherent [TS]

01:17:12   tantrum all that is still there so it's [TS]

01:17:14   kind of like mashed by civilization and [TS]

01:17:15   learning you know the correct way to [TS]

01:17:16   accent partly matched by shame because [TS]

01:17:18   you know if you did actually throw a [TS]

01:17:20   tantrum in the middle of lunch room [TS]

01:17:21   because the girl doesn't like you that [TS]

01:17:22   would not be good idea right and so they [TS]

01:17:28   have this anger right but where is that [TS]

01:17:31   anger directed well it's not going to be [TS]

01:17:32   directed into a tantrum because that's [TS]

01:17:34   that's not viable for even a preteen or [TS]

01:17:36   whatever they know that's not the right [TS]

01:17:37   way to do it you that anger may be [TS]

01:17:40   initially directed against you know the [TS]

01:17:42   self the board start to be angry at [TS]

01:17:44   himself for you so stupid why you have [TS]

01:17:45   to be so [TS]

01:17:46   weird and geeky you know blow blob is he [TS]

01:17:47   can't he can't get again let's get back [TS]

01:17:48   if he can't get what he wants he might [TS]

01:17:50   not even understand why he wants girls [TS]

01:17:51   but he's definitely does and he can't [TS]

01:17:53   get them to talk to him pay attention to [TS]

01:17:55   him like we're not saying this is like a [TS]

01:17:56   self-actualized person he just knows [TS]

01:17:58   girl want yes and he knows not getting [TS]

01:18:01   girl bad right it's definitely not [TS]

01:18:06   high-minded it's very great and but you [TS]

01:18:09   know so he could be angry himself but [TS]

01:18:11   this can also eventually lead to anger [TS]

01:18:13   against females they can start to be [TS]

01:18:16   seen as the enemy that's refusing to [TS]

01:18:18   give you what you want so the you know [TS]

01:18:21   it's like you're not gonna throw a [TS]

01:18:23   tantrum and you're done hating on [TS]

01:18:24   yourself maybe you have some sort of ego [TS]

01:18:26   that likes us know you know it's not my [TS]

01:18:27   fault you know whose fault this is 10 [TS]

01:18:29   it's the girl's fault nothing else I [TS]

01:18:32   want and they're they're refusing to you [TS]

01:18:36   know it can get with me and but don't [TS]

01:18:38   they understands is what I want their [TS]

01:18:40   their evil there they are denying me [TS]

01:18:42   this thing that I want right now this is [TS]

01:18:44   nonsensical yeah and effed up in but it [TS]

01:18:47   makes this weighs very high grow kind of [TS]

01:18:49   angry you know but this makes sense if [TS]

01:18:52   you're a guy listening this this is all [TS]

01:18:53   kind of in a sad way this makes sense [TS]

01:18:56   yeah like if your girl is saying to this [TS]

01:18:58   you know how crazy this sounds right and [TS]

01:19:00   if your guy listening to this I hope you [TS]

01:19:02   also know how crazy it sounds but you [TS]

01:19:03   probably also have felt this at some [TS]

01:19:06   point in your life but things like if [TS]

01:19:07   you think of a two seconds it makes no [TS]

01:19:09   sense like the these the first of all [TS]

01:19:12   these girls as if they're one homogenous [TS]

01:19:14   species right there there I think with [TS]

01:19:16   one mind like a high of mine females [TS]

01:19:18   right miss the people that you want to [TS]

01:19:20   be with and how can you ever expect to [TS]

01:19:24   enter into a a loving lifelong [TS]

01:19:26   relationship with someone of the [TS]

01:19:27   opposite sex if you've come to view them [TS]

01:19:28   all as evil enemies and yet this [TS]

01:19:30   happened right that they are the enemy [TS]

01:19:33   because they are denying you everything [TS]

01:19:35   in life and I want to get into whole [TS]

01:19:36   crazy fruity and other issues and all [TS]

01:19:38   sorts of all that cause I'm just [TS]

01:19:39   focusing on this one thing simple [TS]

01:19:40   adolescent boy geek wats girls can't get [TS]

01:19:44   there for girls are enemies right so [TS]

01:19:47   this is all very obvious to most people [TS]

01:19:48   but I think it is not obvious to the [TS]

01:19:50   people who perpetrate the worst acts of [TS]

01:19:52   misogyny certainly Tony Harris seems [TS]

01:19:55   completely unaware of this connection [TS]

01:19:57   that I've just drawn here while he [TS]

01:19:58   repeatedly demonstrates this [TS]

01:19:59   symptoms in his little essay I mean if [TS]

01:20:02   you look at that essay how can you not [TS]

01:20:04   see somebody who is angry at women [TS]

01:20:07   because of his failures with women uh I [TS]

01:20:10   don't know anything about him maybe he's [TS]

01:20:12   got a you know he's happily married [TS]

01:20:14   maybe he has healthy well-adjusted [TS]

01:20:16   relationships but everything he says [TS]

01:20:18   screams I am angry at women in general [TS]

01:20:21   yeah not you know I don't like women and [TS]

01:20:24   I don't like them for because I've been [TS]

01:20:26   rejected by them so let me insult them [TS]

01:20:28   in all the ways that then denigrate them [TS]

01:20:31   along the axes that I care about you [TS]

01:20:34   know you're not as hot as you think your [TS]

01:20:36   eyes if being hot is the you know the be [TS]

01:20:37   all and end all these women you know he [TS]

01:20:39   have used them only as a things in this [TS]

01:20:42   in this thing that he wrote have no idea [TS]

01:20:43   always like personal miss thing you [TS]

01:20:44   wrote it's entirely about how you are [TS]

01:20:47   not fulfilling my desires and how you [TS]

01:20:50   know and the worst insult I can give to [TS]

01:20:52   you is how you do not fill my criteria [TS]

01:20:54   adequately that that's how I carry you [TS]

01:20:56   down and that's why I hate all females [TS]

01:20:59   here so I would say that if you're an [TS]

01:21:04   adolescent heterosexual male nerd [TS]

01:21:06   listening to this which I have to [TS]

01:21:08   imagine there's some fears yeah this 23 [TS]

01:21:10   maybe in our audience well I mean [TS]

01:21:12   adolescent I'm sure there's plenty of [TS]

01:21:13   heterosexual metal nerds listings us but [TS]

01:21:15   adolescent sudden out there into this [TS]

01:21:16   right uh but if you are if you happen to [TS]

01:21:18   be a young person I guess if you're if [TS]

01:21:19   you're an adult as well uh now is the [TS]

01:21:22   time especially for that'll essence let [TS]

01:21:23   slides and now is the time to start to [TS]

01:21:25   be vigilant I don't like think about [TS]

01:21:28   this connection that it is made and just [TS]

01:21:29   sort of observe it dispassionately try [TS]

01:21:31   to disconnect yourself from it and you [TS]

01:21:32   know realize how absurd it is and don't [TS]

01:21:34   let yourself fall into this trap and to [TS]

01:21:36   do that by understanding how and why you [TS]

01:21:39   could start to feel this way because [TS]

01:21:40   like you said Dan even though this [TS]

01:21:42   sounds ridiculous and absurd almost [TS]

01:21:44   every male is in this where they're [TS]

01:21:45   going to MIT it publicly or not has had [TS]

01:21:48   feelings like this and hopefully has [TS]

01:21:50   examined them and said wait a second [TS]

01:21:51   this is idiotic it makes no sense this [TS]

01:21:53   is not you know this anger is being [TS]

01:21:55   directed to the wrong place right so [TS]

01:21:57   understand why this happens and why it [TS]

01:22:00   makes no sense as a wise man once said [TS]

01:22:04   Dan don't give it to hate that leads to [TS]

01:22:06   the dark side right I think I understand [TS]

01:22:09   understanding this is an important step [TS]

01:22:12   you think about it [TS]

01:22:13   understand it and so if ever if ever you [TS]

01:22:15   feel that way you have the rational part [TS]

01:22:19   of your brain intervene cut it off and [TS]

01:22:21   think about it so getting back to Alex [TS]

01:22:25   Hearns a nerd stop paying your women [TS]

01:22:27   please thing he continues this is [TS]

01:22:32   America the views expressed by Harris [TS]

01:22:34   aren't just held by a virulent [TS]

01:22:36   misogynist instead they're depressingly [TS]

01:22:37   common in geek culture on the lads and [TS]

01:22:40   scare quotes of images too many nerds [TS]

01:22:42   have basically internalized the [TS]

01:22:43   stereotype of themselves as ugly [TS]

01:22:44   friendless losers and decided that [TS]

01:22:46   anyone who doesn't fit that stereotype [TS]

01:22:47   particularly women is a fake geek taking [TS]

01:22:50   advantage of the fact that being a geek [TS]

01:22:51   is now cool so he's brought this back [TS]

01:22:54   around to you know I guess kind of [TS]

01:22:58   relate to the big bang theory / tech [TS]

01:22:59   nerds don't cling to this image of [TS]

01:23:02   yourself as as friendless and terrible [TS]

01:23:05   and saying well someone who doesn't fit [TS]

01:23:06   that mold is in a real geek right [TS]

01:23:07   because that's another pathway to [TS]

01:23:09   complaining all women for your own [TS]

01:23:12   problems right I'm becoming a misogynist [TS]

01:23:15   so here is a sa relating to this from [TS]

01:23:19   susana polo I think it's also on the [TS]

01:23:22   Mary Sue it's called on the fake geek [TS]

01:23:24   girl with fake and scare quotes finally [TS]

01:23:26   appropriately in this case I understand [TS]

01:23:30   the desire to weed out posers out of [TS]

01:23:32   your personal life and interactions but [TS]

01:23:33   I've never actually in the phret in the [TS]

01:23:35   flesh made a fake geek girl or guy I [TS]

01:23:38   don't think this people actually exist [TS]

01:23:39   outside of painful daytime news segments [TS]

01:23:41   and occasional job interviews and [TS]

01:23:42   internet memes but I understand who are [TS]

01:23:45   you to say that a stranger someone [TS]

01:23:47   you're never likely to meet is not [TS]

01:23:48   genuinely interested in the thing they [TS]

01:23:50   appear to be interested in as it is Mary [TS]

01:23:52   services here at Mary Sue when an [TS]

01:23:54   actress goes on a talk show and [TS]

01:23:55   describes her personal affection and [TS]

01:23:57   involvement and join Minh and fandom for [TS]

01:23:59   geek properties we take it at face value [TS]

01:24:01   why because we don't actually have a [TS]

01:24:03   reason not to because all alternative [TS]

01:24:05   the alternative reads a closed community [TS]

01:24:07   of paranoid elitist jerks who just lash [TS]

01:24:08   out at anyone you our summer here is a [TS]

01:24:14   great this this should've been like [TS]

01:24:15   bullet points in the end the entire [TS]

01:24:17   content of the article right the proper [TS]

01:24:19   response this to someone who says they [TS]

01:24:21   like comics and is only ever read scott [TS]

01:24:23   pilgrim is to recommend some more comics [TS]

01:24:25   for that the proper response is someone [TS]

01:24:27   who [TS]

01:24:27   curious to be faking enthusiasm is to [TS]

01:24:29   ignore them not to project their actions [TS]

01:24:31   onto entire gender or community the [TS]

01:24:33   proper response to someone who appears [TS]

01:24:34   to want to be a part of your community [TS]

01:24:36   is to welcome them in end of story that [TS]

01:24:40   is a very good summary of what you [TS]

01:24:42   should be doing instead of the crazy [TS]

01:24:44   things that many people are doing this [TS]

01:24:50   is what I think should and in my [TS]

01:24:51   experience most often does define geek [TS]

01:24:54   culture at its best it's a bunch of [TS]

01:24:57   people who maybe had difficult childhood [TS]

01:24:59   them or ostracized and excluded taking [TS]

01:25:02   those experiences that they had in [TS]

01:25:03   childhood and learning from them not to [TS]

01:25:06   like seek revenge by treating other [TS]

01:25:08   people the way they were treated but to [TS]

01:25:11   learn the opposite lesson by learning [TS]

01:25:14   how hard is to be treated like that and [TS]

01:25:15   then vowing never to make other people [TS]

01:25:17   feel the way that they felt that I wrote [TS]

01:25:19   taking the high road it's not the hi-res [TS]

01:25:21   likes to path dark side light side right [TS]

01:25:23   because you can see how the experience [TS]

01:25:24   can lead you to the dark side and but [TS]

01:25:26   the light side is the opposite side of [TS]

01:25:27   that having this just terrible miserable [TS]

01:25:30   experience and and just like vowing [TS]

01:25:32   saying you know sort of as God is my [TS]

01:25:33   witness I'll never be hungry again but [TS]

01:25:35   like as God is my witness I will never [TS]

01:25:36   make anyone else feel the way I'm [TS]

01:25:38   feeling right now a geek culture as it [TS]

01:25:40   at its best is welcoming we don't care [TS]

01:25:43   if you're awkward ugly fat smelly [TS]

01:25:46   inarticulate or yes even female plus any [TS]

01:25:49   of the above combined right do you want [TS]

01:25:50   to talk about the nuances of Pokemon [TS]

01:25:52   strategy I'm interested in that to come [TS]

01:25:54   not me personally but you know [TS]

01:25:55   theoretically come welcome let's talk [TS]

01:25:57   about that right and yes also even if [TS]

01:26:00   you're female cosplaying and some [TS]

01:26:02   scantily clad thing and attractive [TS]

01:26:03   welcome you know will relate to you as a [TS]

01:26:05   human being who wants to talk about [TS]

01:26:07   Legend of Zelda or league of legends are [TS]

01:26:09   Wow or whatever you want to talk about [TS]

01:26:10   we'll treat you like a human being [TS]

01:26:12   regardless of your appearance social [TS]

01:26:14   skills interests you know anything [TS]

01:26:15   because we know what it's like to be [TS]

01:26:17   treated badly based on who we are not on [TS]

01:26:20   who we are but in how we look or what [TS]

01:26:22   we're interested in wien that's the [TS]

01:26:23   whole point like we did we experience [TS]

01:26:24   that these people don't know who I am [TS]

01:26:25   they're down on me because I'm into [TS]

01:26:28   Dungeons and Dragons progress I don't [TS]

01:26:29   know how to dress or because I'm awkward [TS]

01:26:31   and you know inarticulate or whatever [TS]

01:26:33   thing about you we know what it's like [TS]

01:26:35   to be treated that way in the same exact [TS]

01:26:37   way when some super hot beautiful [TS]

01:26:40   cosplay [TS]

01:26:41   person scantily-clad comes up to you at [TS]

01:26:42   econo wants to talk to you relate to her [TS]

01:26:44   as a human being who's interested in [TS]

01:26:46   wherever the heck she's interested in [TS]

01:26:47   and ignore who cares what she looks like [TS]

01:26:49   you know or you know it's it's it's [TS]

01:26:51   that's the lesson we should learn not [TS]

01:26:53   like oh we should all hate all these [TS]

01:26:55   females because they're not like us and [TS]

01:26:56   because they you know ignored us in high [TS]

01:26:58   school or whatever tax is a great [TS]

01:27:00   example this packs with the penny arcade [TS]

01:27:02   expo which you are going to this yes I [TS]

01:27:04   am it's at its best and it's very very [TS]

01:27:07   often at its best is a judgment-free [TS]

01:27:09   zone that's what i would call nice if we [TS]

01:27:12   all come there because we all love [TS]

01:27:14   gaming and of some stripe board games [TS]

01:27:17   video games whatever it is we're all [TS]

01:27:19   gamers we just happened also a lot of [TS]

01:27:21   time be you know awkward in our tequila [TS]

01:27:23   geeks and we all come together uh and [TS]

01:27:26   and it's like it's kind of like I think [TS]

01:27:30   of an example going somewhere where you [TS]

01:27:32   can finally relax like now I know no one [TS]

01:27:34   here is going to be judging me because [TS]

01:27:35   I'm a geek maybe you're in your job you [TS]

01:27:37   don't feel that way because you feel [TS]

01:27:38   like I have to hide the fact that I'm a [TS]

01:27:39   larper in a weekend right don't I mean [TS]

01:27:42   we make fun of that ourselves like I was [TS]

01:27:43   all all right like that's right right [TS]

01:27:45   yeah that's the one so even even we can [TS]

01:27:47   make fun of flour well no but packs is [TS]

01:27:49   like pax is a judgment-free zone no [TS]

01:27:51   matter what you're interested we're in [TS]

01:27:53   this place and this time we're gonna set [TS]

01:27:55   aside to say we are not going to we're [TS]

01:27:58   not going to care everyone is the same [TS]

01:27:59   everyone is welcome no one is judged [TS]

01:28:01   based on whatever the thing is that [TS]

01:28:03   they're interested in as long as they're [TS]

01:28:04   not hurting other people right and this [TS]

01:28:06   extends far far outward from like gaming [TS]

01:28:08   and geek stuff or whatever all the way [TS]

01:28:10   out to things like sexual orientation [TS]

01:28:12   transgender everything like that again [TS]

01:28:14   it's about relating to people as people [TS]

01:28:16   not according to what the labels are [TS]

01:28:18   what their appearances are what their [TS]

01:28:19   what their weird interests weird you may [TS]

01:28:22   be and I think this is also why we have [TS]

01:28:25   so many geeks myself included feel such [TS]

01:28:27   a visceral connection to homophobia and [TS]

01:28:30   gay rights I don't know if you feel this [TS]

01:28:31   as well but I realized this several [TS]

01:28:33   years ago i'm like why is it that i get [TS]

01:28:35   like you know like my my adrenaline [TS]

01:28:37   starts pumping it's like I get the [TS]

01:28:39   flight or flight response anytime [TS]

01:28:40   anything having to do with you know [TS]

01:28:42   anything you know sort of hate crimes [TS]

01:28:44   and homophobia and all that gay right [TS]

01:28:45   stuff is like why I'm having this [TS]

01:28:47   reaction I realize I'm having this [TS]

01:28:48   reaction because it's exactly the same [TS]

01:28:50   thing as you know being treated badly [TS]

01:28:53   for who you are [TS]

01:28:54   uh unfairly right it doesn't matter what [TS]

01:28:56   the part of who you are is it just it it [TS]

01:29:00   shouldn't be that way and it's I [TS]

01:29:02   injustice is injustice yeah and it's not [TS]

01:29:04   exactly and it's a it makes it I think [TS]

01:29:06   growing up a geek and being subject to [TS]

01:29:07   that makes you you know I can do several [TS]

01:29:09   things you can make you into a terrible [TS]

01:29:11   misogynist yes but it can also turn you [TS]

01:29:12   over to someone who is like keenly [TS]

01:29:14   attuned to other people who are being [TS]

01:29:15   like you know that person is feeling the [TS]

01:29:17   way you felt maybe even a hundred times [TS]

01:29:19   worse and but like you know that feeling [TS]

01:29:21   right like that's terrible that must be [TS]

01:29:23   stopped right in my sight you know it it [TS]

01:29:25   triggers the fight-or-flight response [TS]

01:29:26   just adrenaline pumps induce us know [TS]

01:29:27   right now i know i tried political stuff [TS]

01:29:30   on the show or whatever but in my [TS]

01:29:32   opinion this is a then this is a human [TS]

01:29:34   rights issue not a political thing and [TS]

01:29:36   if you've decided now to write off the [TS]

01:29:37   entire 96 episode run of this podcast [TS]

01:29:38   ignore all my future work I'm sorry but [TS]

01:29:41   certain things are worth standing up for [TS]

01:29:43   and this is one of them so anyway the [TS]

01:29:45   lesson of this very special episode of [TS]

01:29:48   hyper critical or very similar is it a [TS]

01:29:50   moral or a lesson I don't know what this [TS]

01:29:52   you can decide I'll say in the immortal [TS]

01:29:55   words of George Carlin starring [TS]

01:29:58   co-starring I don't know who's featured [TS]

01:29:59   in a movie that may be older than some [TS]

01:30:01   people listening to this podcast right [TS]

01:30:03   now be excellent to each other dan I [TS]

01:30:07   think that's the lesson okay kind of [TS]

01:30:11   like an eye for an eye no not that's not [TS]

01:30:14   that's a totally different treat others [TS]

01:30:17   how you would like to be treated yeah in [TS]

01:30:19   that the golden rule is the reason I got [TS]

01:30:22   all worked about this inside to put it [TS]

01:30:23   in the show is like I read all these [TS]

01:30:24   things you know these geek culture [TS]

01:30:26   related things with the fake geek girls [TS]

01:30:27   and everything and it seemed like people [TS]

01:30:28   were losing the thread it was like no [TS]

01:30:30   don't you understand guys like I thought [TS]

01:30:32   it seems to me that there's a there's a [TS]

01:30:34   vast agreement on this like when I go to [TS]

01:30:36   pax I feel like yes we all understand [TS]

01:30:38   son spoken everyone here understands [TS]

01:30:39   this is the place where we can all come [TS]

01:30:42   and be at our best and that our best is [TS]

01:30:44   not judging anybody for anything not [TS]

01:30:46   making anyone feel the way some of us [TS]

01:30:47   may felt for whatever reasons no matter [TS]

01:30:50   what they're into you know and like [TS]

01:30:51   ideally that would extend out to [TS]

01:30:52   everyday life and everywhere but like [TS]

01:30:54   this is a safe place where you can go [TS]

01:30:56   and look like don't we all agree on that [TS]

01:30:57   and then the fake geek girl thing is [TS]

01:30:58   like no that is the exact opposite that [TS]

01:31:01   is going to that convention and then [TS]

01:31:03   somehow this little berylon strain the [TS]

01:31:05   virus gets in there it's like well [TS]

01:31:06   everyone's well [TS]

01:31:07   here except for those fake geek girls [TS]

01:31:08   who give me funny feelings and wear [TS]

01:31:10   outfits they're not really into that [TS]

01:31:11   anyways I know it's the opposite if they [TS]

01:31:13   want to come and they want to dress like [TS]

01:31:14   some they've never heard of who cares [TS]

01:31:16   like you're supposed to welcome them you [TS]

01:31:18   know that's the whole point and it kills [TS]

01:31:21   me that that happens in this venue and [TS]

01:31:23   the one venue you know he's convinced [TS]

01:31:24   that things were it's supposed to be the [TS]

01:31:26   exemplar of how how we geeks are [TS]

01:31:29   supposed to act the best of the best and [TS]

01:31:30   this comes in and it's just the exact [TS]

01:31:32   opposite of everything that we're all [TS]

01:31:34   supposed to be about so it just pissed [TS]

01:31:37   me off it pissed me off that these [TS]

01:31:38   threads are bouncing that there are [TS]

01:31:39   arguments about this well you don't [TS]

01:31:40   understand fake geek girls real are fake [TS]

01:31:42   and they need you and it's not just from [TS]

01:31:44   you know misogynist males like one of [TS]

01:31:45   the articles I read here cited was [TS]

01:31:47   written by by a female saying yeah these [TS]

01:31:49   fake geek girls stop trying to be a geek [TS]

01:31:51   or whatever I get back to the bullet [TS]

01:31:55   points that what was that authors names [TS]

01:31:56   I gotta get out here again oh where was [TS]

01:32:01   that Susan what was her name susana polo [TS]

01:32:04   you know it just lays off with the [TS]

01:32:07   proper response just you know if you see [TS]

01:32:09   someone who is like it falls under the [TS]

01:32:11   scatter all their a fake girl they don't [TS]

01:32:12   know about to tell them about other cool [TS]

01:32:14   stuff don't assume like you don't really [TS]

01:32:15   like it you're just posing for some [TS]

01:32:16   crazy know that like if they really are [TS]

01:32:19   posing for attention like who cares like [TS]

01:32:21   everyone is welcome if they want to be [TS]

01:32:24   part of your community they're welcome [TS]

01:32:25   that's the whole that's the whole point [TS]

01:32:26   no one comes and said well you can come [TS]

01:32:28   and sit down play a board game with us [TS]

01:32:29   but you're dressed to some crazy [TS]

01:32:31   character and you know you're weird and [TS]

01:32:34   pimply narrow tequila and smelly so you [TS]

01:32:35   have to go someplace else that that [TS]

01:32:37   should never happen at you know in real [TS]

01:32:39   life a but if we can't do an entire [TS]

01:32:41   world then the very least at pax and [TS]

01:32:43   then our conventions so it's the one [TS]

01:32:46   place you're safe yeah and real and [TS]

01:32:49   really should be everywhere but like [TS]

01:32:50   what can we start with can we start with [TS]

01:32:51   conventions can we not have you know it [TS]

01:32:54   just it just pisses me off what what [TS]

01:32:57   brought all this on I just seeing these [TS]

01:33:01   articles like if there's it's kind of [TS]

01:33:02   like you know I don't want to get into [TS]

01:33:04   political stuff rights but I see it see [TS]

01:33:05   that there's a this is a debate like oh [TS]

01:33:07   this is the topic we need to debate we [TS]

01:33:09   had that pro and con against fake geek [TS]

01:33:10   girl know this there is no there's no [TS]

01:33:13   there's no pro for that meme there's no [TS]

01:33:16   there's no there there there's no [TS]

01:33:17   reality that mean it's not like well [TS]

01:33:19   something real [TS]

01:33:20   real thing no the whole point if they [TS]

01:33:22   come to the show they dresses somebody [TS]

01:33:23   that you know they're welcome they're [TS]

01:33:26   not less welcome because they happen to [TS]

01:33:27   be you know a beautiful woman then they [TS]

01:33:31   would be if they were you know a [TS]

01:33:32   horrible ugly trolled adolescent pimply [TS]

01:33:35   bought like everyone is welcome no [TS]

01:33:37   faking no posing know anything that's [TS]

01:33:39   that's the point and it just drives me [TS]

01:33:41   nuts that their articles bouncing around [TS]

01:33:43   the web over the course of an entire [TS]

01:33:44   year debating this as if it's not like [TS]

01:33:46   like people are people just losing you [TS]

01:33:49   know what the whole point is and it [TS]

01:33:51   seems crazy to me like I figured it all [TS]

01:33:52   just go away because if you ever attend [TS]

01:33:54   packs you you feel that you're like [TS]

01:33:56   everyone pretty much agrees you know [TS]

01:33:57   that this is the way it's supposed to be [TS]

01:33:58   but there's this little apparently this [TS]

01:34:01   little tiny thread worming its way [TS]

01:34:03   through there you know infecting [TS]

01:34:04   people's minds and it's screwing things [TS]

01:34:06   up and needs to be it needs to be [TS]

01:34:08   corrected and stamped out and we need to [TS]

01:34:11   be conscious of it no you're upset I can [TS]

01:34:17   tell you're upset I am I know this this [TS]

01:34:20   could be this is you say this is where [TS]

01:34:21   the show jump the shark when he's trying [TS]

01:34:22   to get another political stuff and did [TS]

01:34:24   these big rants about things and call me [TS]

01:34:26   a misogynist I didn't like that part [TS]

01:34:28   well sorry guys the show's ending soon [TS]

01:34:30   anyway so you'll be safe yeah you know [TS]

01:34:34   was saying that the final episode should [TS]

01:34:35   be about free will yeah I'm go there [TS]

01:34:39   I'll go here though I'll go here because [TS]

01:34:40   like I think this is on topic geek [TS]

01:34:42   culture definitely on topic forever [TS]

01:34:45   critical the excellent to each other [TS]

01:34:47   folks have anything to add damn from [TS]

01:34:50   your experience I don't have anything [TS]

01:34:52   add to this you cover it all I mean [TS]

01:34:55   first of all you cover it all but second [TS]

01:34:58   of all you know I think there's a lot of [TS]

01:34:59   I think it's different nowadays I talked [TS]

01:35:01   to people today in in there you know [TS]

01:35:04   like 20 s if you're in your 20s right [TS]

01:35:08   now it's that you're growing up in a [TS]

01:35:09   very different world at least from the [TS]

01:35:11   geek standpoint I can't I can't speak to [TS]

01:35:13   the other topics you brought up but in [TS]

01:35:15   the geek standpoint people who are who [TS]

01:35:18   are in our generation who would have [TS]

01:35:21   been considered to be misfits or uncool [TS]

01:35:24   like I remember I have a vivid memory of [TS]

01:35:27   being i guess it was 11 years old and [TS]

01:35:31   devos album with whip [TS]

01:35:34   on there came out this is vinyl folks [TS]

01:35:36   and I had this album and i loved this [TS]

01:35:41   album and I felt like Devo was speaking [TS]

01:35:46   not directly to me in the sort of crazy [TS]

01:35:49   way but like these were my kind of guys [TS]

01:35:51   like they made music that I liked they [TS]

01:35:54   were weird and they were unafraid to be [TS]

01:35:56   weird and they were unafraid to sort of [TS]

01:35:57   and I I couldn't couldn't verbalized it [TS]

01:36:00   this way when I was 11 years old but [TS]

01:36:03   they were unafraid to challenge [TS]

01:36:04   authority and do unconventional things [TS]

01:36:05   and and have fun with it and make it fun [TS]

01:36:09   and make it interesting and make it [TS]

01:36:10   something that was different from [TS]

01:36:12   everything else that was out there and [TS]

01:36:15   yet somehow go a little bit get get get [TS]

01:36:19   popular I don't say go mainstream but [TS]

01:36:21   and I remember talking to somebody who [TS]

01:36:24   would you know was a quote unquote [TS]

01:36:25   friend of mine I thought and like we [TS]

01:36:28   were talking about music or something in [TS]

01:36:30   in the classroom one day and I said oh [TS]

01:36:34   gee you know you have you ever listened [TS]

01:36:35   to devo you know that cool song wit but [TS]

01:36:37   have you ever listened and he's like you [TS]

01:36:39   listen to devo I was like yeah he and [TS]

01:36:41   he'd like he did the little like you [TS]

01:36:43   take your forefingers you know the [TS]

01:36:46   Ultraman the thing were you if you were [TS]

01:36:48   Ultraman how you would shoot out the the [TS]

01:36:51   main attack like you cross your hands [TS]

01:36:53   over run it well he made like the little [TS]

01:36:54   Christian cross with his two fingers one [TS]

01:36:57   goes one way one goes the other like a [TS]

01:36:59   tea with your fingers and was like [TS]

01:37:02   what's wrong you know like get away from [TS]

01:37:04   me but that's that was not an isolated [TS]

01:37:06   incident that was like if you if you [TS]

01:37:09   like we're into weird stuff like that [TS]

01:37:12   was normal you know that was the normal [TS]

01:37:15   response that I ran into throughout like [TS]

01:37:17   all of grain you eventually learn like [TS]

01:37:19   oh I guess I can't talk about anything I [TS]

01:37:20   like you know you find the one or two [TS]

01:37:22   other kids or like like D&D and you're [TS]

01:37:24   all kind of shamefully admitting to each [TS]

01:37:27   other you made maybe I kind of like that [TS]

01:37:28   thing and then you find out the other [TS]

01:37:29   kid likes you like to die love Dean D [TS]

01:37:31   know what I mean and and and it was like [TS]

01:37:33   you had to almost like downplay you had [TS]

01:37:36   to do it was bad enough that like you [TS]

01:37:39   know you couldn't play sports you know [TS]

01:37:41   but you didn't want to give the the you [TS]

01:37:43   show completely show your hand and that [TS]

01:37:46   really sucks now it's like Oh II [TS]

01:37:48   you do this different thing that other [TS]

01:37:49   people don't do like now you're setting [TS]

01:37:51   a trend so I think I think that aspect [TS]

01:37:55   of it has changed and I've talked to [TS]

01:37:56   people about this and it seems like [TS]

01:37:58   people's minds are open a bit more to [TS]

01:38:01   this kind of thing at least in major [TS]

01:38:04   cities i was i like that i like to think [TS]

01:38:07   that the trend is positive but i have to [TS]

01:38:09   think that just because the specific [TS]

01:38:11   things that may have been you'd been [TS]

01:38:12   ridiculed for when we were kids are now [TS]

01:38:14   more accepted there's just something [TS]

01:38:17   else that replaces it like there's [TS]

01:38:18   always a point that some kid is getting [TS]

01:38:20   like you know think things are evergreen [TS]

01:38:22   like being ugly and awkward that will [TS]

01:38:23   never be cool right being ugly is the [TS]

01:38:26   worst thing in the entire world in like [TS]

01:38:27   middle school in high school right and [TS]

01:38:28   that's never going to change there's no [TS]

01:38:29   trend it's not kind of knocking oh [TS]

01:38:31   you're a trendsetter your hideously ugly [TS]

01:38:32   no it's not gonna happen being awkward [TS]

01:38:34   like physically awkward socially awkward [TS]

01:38:36   that is never going to be cool and [TS]

01:38:37   popular right so there's always [TS]

01:38:38   something that people are being slammed [TS]

01:38:41   for and you know that's I'm trying to be [TS]

01:38:44   vigilant about that was like oh it's not [TS]

01:38:46   a big deal I when I was a kid I couldn't [TS]

01:38:47   admit I liked computers but nowadays [TS]

01:38:48   it's cool that may be true and maybe [TS]

01:38:51   your kid is lucky and he happens to be [TS]

01:38:52   into computers and you know it's not a [TS]

01:38:54   big deal but there's always gonna be [TS]

01:38:55   something right as kids are animals yes [TS]

01:38:58   so I am vigilant to to I don't want to [TS]

01:39:01   like say yeah I hope it has gotten [TS]

01:39:03   better you know but I not that much [TS]

01:39:06   better yeah I mean so I was gonna want [TS]

01:39:09   make sure that I don't like oh you don't [TS]

01:39:10   understand kid when I was a kid you [TS]

01:39:12   couldn't play D&D now you got it so easy [TS]

01:39:13   maybe they don't have it easy me no no [TS]

01:39:15   they didn't know you're right about [TS]

01:39:16   replacing it but I'm just saying like a [TS]

01:39:17   lot of the things that I think I I don't [TS]

01:39:21   say we've it that I remember from my [TS]

01:39:22   childhood a lot of those things have [TS]

01:39:25   gone away and people it it seems like [TS]

01:39:28   they're more accepted like you're saying [TS]

01:39:29   they're more accepting of those kinds of [TS]

01:39:31   things and and some of those things have [TS]

01:39:34   kind of become cool but it's always [TS]

01:39:36   interesting for me to wonder why they've [TS]

01:39:39   become cool and and other things that [TS]

01:39:41   have replaced them it seems like those [TS]

01:39:44   things have gotten more intense and [TS]

01:39:45   almost worse well I feel like the way it [TS]

01:39:49   works is that you know the generation [TS]

01:39:52   that was into those things became adults [TS]

01:39:53   and now like we control the world right [TS]

01:39:54   damn you control it from your console [TS]

01:39:56   there under the volcano sure all right [TS]

01:39:58   and we get to decide the computers are [TS]

01:39:59   cool because we changed the world with [TS]

01:40:01   them [TS]

01:40:01   you're welcome right but and you know as [TS]

01:40:04   we grow to it like just like the kids [TS]

01:40:05   who are you know I maybe not diva but I [TS]

01:40:07   guess kind of like when that generation [TS]

01:40:09   grows up to adulthood and if they are [TS]

01:40:12   successful they can influence the way [TS]

01:40:15   the culture look so now you know and [TS]

01:40:16   plus computer just become common so like [TS]

01:40:17   how can they be uncool like they're [TS]

01:40:19   everywhere deal with it right so that [TS]

01:40:22   that's how I think that trying to happen [TS]

01:40:23   but what happens is and this is what we [TS]

01:40:25   call progress it sounds terrible but [TS]

01:40:26   this is called progress is when the [TS]

01:40:28   thing that was uncool becomes acceptable [TS]

01:40:31   you just pull from the bin that's down [TS]

01:40:34   there the big black velvet bag with like [TS]

01:40:36   the green smoke coming out of it and you [TS]

01:40:38   just reach your hand in there and you [TS]

01:40:40   pull the next thing up when I was in [TS]

01:40:41   high school you know we had gay kids in [TS]

01:40:43   our class but nobody talked about them [TS]

01:40:46   it was like totally in the closet type [TS]

01:40:48   of thing now it's like all right so fine [TS]

01:40:50   it's okay to be a geek or whatever let's [TS]

01:40:52   reach into that bag look what we found [TS]

01:40:53   homosexuality all right well now that's [TS]

01:40:56   going to come up but we're gonna have to [TS]

01:40:57   deal with that as a real thing and so [TS]

01:40:58   next whatever you know the same thing [TS]

01:41:00   with you know generations whatever you [TS]

01:41:02   think you come from with all I'm very [TS]

01:41:02   calm through intolerant oh yeah I'm [TS]

01:41:04   gonna reach into the bag again oh look [TS]

01:41:06   transgender people how do you feel about [TS]

01:41:07   that and you're like oh wait wait it's [TS]

01:41:09   like I'm not comfortable with that right [TS]

01:41:10   there's always something in the bag for [TS]

01:41:11   you to reach down to that's gonna test [TS]

01:41:12   your you know tolerance right and that [TS]

01:41:15   sounds terrible that each time we have [TS]

01:41:17   to deal with this new type of thing but [TS]

01:41:18   that's progress like it's good now you [TS]

01:41:21   know that that gay kids in high school [TS]

01:41:23   have clubs and support groups and are [TS]

01:41:25   out in the open and you know any kind of [TS]

01:41:27   hatred towards them or whatever is [TS]

01:41:29   stamped down like that's progress right [TS]

01:41:30   but they have to fight they had to fight [TS]

01:41:32   that fight and it's still not easy for [TS]

01:41:34   them you know and and one once that's [TS]

01:41:36   done like three generations from now [TS]

01:41:38   when we have a gay president and it's no [TS]

01:41:39   big deal and we look back on anyone who [TS]

01:41:42   thought of it as a big deal is barbaric [TS]

01:41:44   right that would progress too but [TS]

01:41:46   they'll always be something else down [TS]

01:41:47   the bag will pull up you know who it's [TS]

01:41:48   going to be a people with like alien DNA [TS]

01:41:49   but and who knows but like them this [TS]

01:41:51   stopped down there like I think [TS]

01:41:52   transgender it's a great example because [TS]

01:41:54   lots of people who are you know totally [TS]

01:41:56   pro-gay rights and everything are still [TS]

01:41:58   uncomfortable with that but like you [TS]

01:41:59   know there's always a more marginalized [TS]

01:42:02   group and then like I said the things [TS]

01:42:03   that are evergreen physical [TS]

01:42:05   attractiveness into anti-intellectualism [TS]

01:42:06   is another big one I felt that a lot in [TS]

01:42:09   school that like being smart was not [TS]

01:42:10   cool and that seems crazy to me but I [TS]

01:42:13   think it's still there dad [TS]

01:42:14   definitely still there right and it [TS]

01:42:17   depends in the school it depends on the [TS]

01:42:18   environment you're in stuff like that [TS]

01:42:19   but yeah there's always something down [TS]

01:42:21   there but yeah that I think that's that [TS]

01:42:25   should be the hallmark of geek culture [TS]

01:42:26   is you know just picking the group that [TS]

01:42:29   I happen to be in but like if you [TS]

01:42:31   experience them and that's really the [TS]

01:42:32   hallmark of gay culture any type of you [TS]

01:42:34   know marginalized group if you [TS]

01:42:36   experience any kind of discrimination [TS]

01:42:39   and you know exclusion and ridicule in [TS]

01:42:42   your formative years because of [TS]

01:42:44   something that you know it's part of [TS]

01:42:46   your nature that is that should not be [TS]

01:42:48   condemned but is what you should bring [TS]

01:42:51   from that is like I said the the mission [TS]

01:42:54   in life to never make another person [TS]

01:42:57   feel this way and if you see someone [TS]

01:42:58   making someone else feel this way even [TS]

01:43:00   if it's about something has nothing to [TS]

01:43:01   do with you you can say it doesn't [TS]

01:43:03   matter I you know I'm not gay but I know [TS]

01:43:05   what that gay kid feels like right now [TS]

01:43:06   and it's terrible it needs to stop right [TS]

01:43:08   ah that that's what we should be [TS]

01:43:10   bringing out of this I think it's what I [TS]

01:43:11   think it's what most geeks do bring out [TS]

01:43:13   I think that's what should define geek [TS]

01:43:14   culture and when it doesn't something is [TS]

01:43:17   going wrong this really was a very [TS]

01:43:22   special episode underling man it was [TS]

01:43:24   very special this is a whole different [TS]

01:43:25   side of you you waited you know nine [TS]

01:43:27   ninety five episodes to reveal it it's [TS]

01:43:30   the same side it's the geek side ya know [TS]

01:43:37   is that issue Andy I think on said it's [TS]

01:43:39   a short show 102 minutes all right well [TS]

01:43:42   if you want to talk to john about this [TS]

01:43:44   he will engage with you best i would say [TS]

01:43:46   on twitter which is a siracusa SI RAC [TS]

01:43:49   u.s.a on twitter he's also on Alpha [TS]

01:43:52   app.net siracusa he's also in Siracusa [TS]

01:43:56   dot just for you siracusa tent [TS]

01:43:59   that is and if you would like to send an [TS]

01:44:04   email john obviously does read those and [TS]

01:44:06   many times will read them on the air [TS]

01:44:08   five by five TV / contact need to pick [TS]

01:44:11   hypercritical and hit Send it'll go to [TS]

01:44:12   him and me and I think that's it I'm [TS]

01:44:17   damn Benjamin on Twitter show notes are [TS]

01:44:21   at five by five TV / hypercritical / 96 [TS]

01:44:24   thanks everyone for listening by John [TS]

01:44:28   diamond [TS]

01:44:33   [Music] [TS]