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Roderick on the Line

Ep. 236: "Into the Hat Weeds"

 

00:00:00   this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

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00:00:13   purchase please go and visit Casper calm [TS]

00:00:16   / super training [TS]

00:00:23   hello hi John hi Marilyn [TS]

00:00:26   how's it going oh so early [TS]

00:00:30   yeah how about that Lindsey Buckingham [TS]

00:00:35   huh [TS]

00:00:36   you guys we should be president united [TS]

00:00:38   states yeah I take it he says he's 64 [TS]

00:00:42   years old in that video you know so my [TS]

00:00:44   you miss the deal [TS]

00:00:46   oh it's so worth I was out last night [TS]

00:00:51   with some other old people when i say [TS]

00:00:55   last night I mean you know between five [TS]

00:00:57   thirty and seven thirty talk about time [TS]

00:01:00   travel and so I'm really really [TS]

00:01:03   conscious of you know there's a small [TS]

00:01:06   group of our small group of us old old [TS]

00:01:08   old men talk about how young we look [TS]

00:01:11   it's really nice i will DD stop [TS]

00:01:14   complimenting each other or you just [TS]

00:01:15   kind of casually note how interesting is [TS]

00:01:18   that you continue to look so good and [TS]

00:01:20   then everybody agrees [TS]

00:01:21   oh no no we thought it all starts on a [TS]

00:01:23   are congratulating your friends on how [TS]

00:01:25   young looks what looks so maybe you look [TS]

00:01:28   great so look great now you look great [TS]

00:01:31   and then there's a there's quite a bit [TS]

00:01:33   of like we're all good looking guys [TS]

00:01:36   yeah you're looking yeah i'm gonna [TS]

00:01:38   really good-looking guy we're all good [TS]

00:01:40   look at got any group like that [TS]

00:01:42   yeah it's a lie though of course and i [TS]

00:01:45   agreed upon you know [TS]

00:01:47   mhm yeah I agreed upon you gotta not a [TS]

00:01:51   legal phrase it's a line from its [TS]

00:01:56   titular line from an episode of the TV [TS]

00:01:59   show Deadwood haha [TS]

00:02:01   dad what I know the care you care deeply [TS]

00:02:05   about dead wood that was special [TS]

00:02:07   mhm they have a guitar playing on there [TS]

00:02:10   too [TS]

00:02:11   yeah that's one of those shows you know [TS]

00:02:13   this is the thing that has come up i [TS]

00:02:15   think before in conversation between me [TS]

00:02:18   and other humans who the shows that have [TS]

00:02:24   modern music alright you talked about [TS]

00:02:28   this with the key blinders yeah peaky [TS]

00:02:31   blinders arm its III can't I can never [TS]

00:02:34   quite I get it [TS]

00:02:36   I get why it's very stylish they don't [TS]

00:02:38   do that and Edward L it is very it's [TS]

00:02:42   very period-appropriate except for the [TS]

00:02:45   very elevated language well I thought [TS]

00:02:48   the theme the actual theme song of dead [TS]

00:02:51   wood was a little bit how you say head [TS]

00:02:56   and the heart [TS]

00:02:57   hmm which is a little bit like a modern [TS]

00:03:01   recreation of water it the imagination [TS]

00:03:04   am I sort of a modern what will I was [TS]

00:03:08   going to take our madam tape [TS]

00:03:10   yeah we're like if you didn't know much [TS]

00:03:12   about music in that time you think might [TS]

00:03:14   think that's what it sounds like [TS]

00:03:15   yeah have you throw their joy thing it [TS]

00:03:16   doesn't make it a thing that's a pretty [TS]

00:03:19   good point you know you don't want me if [TS]

00:03:22   you thought it would shoot a banjo and a [TS]

00:03:23   thing who still doesn't make it back you [TS]

00:03:26   got strong feelings about well it's [TS]

00:03:29   banjo players the body is not the [TS]

00:03:30   instrument itself right boom content [TS]

00:03:33   contempo let's say I don't think it's a [TS]

00:03:36   banjo player i should refine this [TS]

00:03:39   yeah the banjo so first of all the banjo [TS]

00:03:42   is a wonderful instrument of him [TS]

00:03:44   I think it's if you take a banjo player [TS]

00:03:47   and you put a certain kind of hat on him [TS]

00:03:49   right like you like i love banjo playing [TS]

00:03:53   uh huh [TS]

00:03:54   it's just that it's a certain kind of [TS]

00:03:57   hat goes on a banjo player when you're [TS]

00:03:59   headed down a road [TS]

00:04:00   wow ok you're on a path now where I'm [TS]

00:04:04   going to start we're gonna start to peel [TS]

00:04:06   off so is that a little bit like bit [TS]

00:04:09   like that like the version have enough [TS]

00:04:11   angry because I started doing stuff to [TS]

00:04:13   you the banjo player version of having a [TS]

00:04:16   ring [TS]

00:04:17   oh you know like the the Lord of the [TS]

00:04:18   Rings ring oh I feel like it's just [TS]

00:04:20   having it kind of start to change your [TS]

00:04:22   personality or you know so you're [TS]

00:04:23   walking around some kind of a Horcrux is [TS]

00:04:25   going to do something to like start [TS]

00:04:26   affecting the way that you think an act [TS]

00:04:28   you put my flat cap on a banjo player [TS]

00:04:31   and pretty soon everything is out of [TS]

00:04:32   control [TS]

00:04:32   I feel like if you are learning an [TS]

00:04:34   instrument you are learning the [TS]

00:04:37   instrument that you have right you go to [TS]

00:04:38   war with the instrument you have yep [TS]

00:04:40   about the instrument you want so if you [TS]

00:04:42   are somebody sitting around you're like [TS]

00:04:44   I want to learn the piano but the only [TS]

00:04:46   piano that you have as a tack piano [TS]

00:04:48   you're gonna learn to play the tack [TS]

00:04:50   piano huh gonna learn to play the [TS]

00:04:52   concert grand [TS]

00:04:54   Oh learn to attack piano and so you're [TS]

00:04:58   learning to play the banjo let's say hey [TS]

00:05:00   I'm i got here i am going to learn play [TS]

00:05:02   the banjo I think there are people who [TS]

00:05:05   grow up learning the banjo as their [TS]

00:05:08   first instrument but i think would have [TS]

00:05:09   a lot of the time they learn the guitar [TS]

00:05:11   and then they they try to like retro [TS]

00:05:14   like they may modify they modified down [TS]

00:05:20   to banjo they think interesting so [TS]

00:05:23   whatever you started on you start with [TS]

00:05:25   an instrument that becomes your way of [TS]

00:05:27   conceptualizing music works and kind of [TS]

00:05:29   back into different instruments read [TS]

00:05:31   this was the interesting thing about [TS]

00:05:32   Paul McCartney right his he learned [TS]

00:05:34   guitar but he learned banjo chords [TS]

00:05:37   oh I would we would even listen to a lot [TS]

00:05:41   of beetles and happily at my daughter's [TS]

00:05:44   request and i still can't get over his [TS]

00:05:46   baseline I just said I set there and [TS]

00:05:47   like Lucy in the Sky with Diamonds is [TS]

00:05:49   not by a long shot my favorite Beatles [TS]

00:05:51   song this baseline on that is bananas [TS]

00:05:53   it's like where did that baseline even [TS]

00:05:55   come from or something like hello [TS]

00:05:57   goodbye like how is he has he just keep [TS]

00:06:00   getting better and better and it's all [TS]

00:06:01   over six or seven years it's nuts but [TS]

00:06:04   you know he was originally a guitar [TS]

00:06:05   player now was he originally wasn't his [TS]

00:06:08   dad his dad played like clarinet [TS]

00:06:10   I wonder if he started on a woodwind [TS]

00:06:11   instrument i think that i think the [TS]

00:06:14   story was that they taught him the that [TS]

00:06:16   his mother [TS]

00:06:19   Oh new banjo chords and she taught in [TS]

00:06:22   bandra chords on the guitar guy I you [TS]

00:06:24   know I haven't read haven't read my you [TS]

00:06:27   don't keep up with the robots my library [TS]

00:06:28   of beetles me books lately we don't talk [TS]

00:06:31   about the Beatles and years it's been [TS]

00:06:33   quite awhile used to talk about them [TS]

00:06:34   exclusively easy just pretty much [TS]

00:06:36   Beatles Hitler and getting all the way [TS]

00:06:38   mm but but so so I don't know there's a [TS]

00:06:42   few set down a path and you're like I'm [TS]

00:06:45   banjos my thing now and you put on a hat [TS]

00:06:50   as part of that ok right you see what [TS]

00:06:54   I'm saying I think I do yeah if you're [TS]

00:06:55   just in the appear just devoted to the [TS]

00:06:57   study of banjo and you're just in there [TS]

00:06:59   banjo studying for your sitting in a [TS]

00:07:02   tree or whatever wherever they teach [TS]

00:07:03   banjo I think generally when you learn [TS]

00:07:05   it yet that's taught in trees I think [TS]

00:07:08   you're supposed to I mean I'm not sure [TS]

00:07:10   about this but I think I think you [TS]

00:07:12   supposed to be on a paddlewheel boat [TS]

00:07:13   with no shoes and one leg swing over the [TS]

00:07:17   side that's a great way to learn the [TS]

00:07:19   banjo [TS]

00:07:19   I mean Kermit the Frog learned it in a [TS]

00:07:22   tree must be hard to keep it tuned we're [TS]

00:07:24   in a swamp [TS]

00:07:25   well sure because this shit humidity [TS]

00:07:28   it's not there it's not the heat it's [TS]

00:07:29   the stupidity but if you if you pick up [TS]

00:07:33   the band junior like this is my new [TS]

00:07:35   instrument i'm going to be in the I'm [TS]

00:07:36   gonna be in a band that requires a banjo [TS]

00:07:38   player and I'm gonna and I'm going to [TS]

00:07:39   pick up this instrument now and then [TS]

00:07:42   immediately as part of that process you [TS]

00:07:44   put on a certain kind of hat [TS]

00:07:45   ok i'm talking not not like put on the [TS]

00:07:47   banjo player had put on at an actual hat [TS]

00:07:50   and you think that that's a component of [TS]

00:07:52   being the banjo player in your band [TS]

00:07:54   that's where we part ways [TS]

00:07:56   Oh in true rest sting I mean who do you [TS]

00:08:00   think like and it's I don't even think [TS]

00:08:02   it's a question of like this is my magic [TS]

00:08:04   banjo playing happen without it I cannot [TS]

00:08:06   play the banjo but it's that you think [TS]

00:08:08   as the banjo player in this band which [TS]

00:08:10   I'm just beginning on this course of [TS]

00:08:11   life i'm going to start out with this [TS]

00:08:15   hat on and this is going to be my hat [TS]

00:08:18   and we're already were divorced you and [TS]

00:08:21   I I feel like we really want to talk [TS]

00:08:24   about christie Lee some days I'm kind of [TS]

00:08:26   obsessed with christie Lee right now but [TS]

00:08:28   been watching a ton of videos [TS]

00:08:30   she was it he's a tremendous musician I [TS]

00:08:34   don't even know where to begin [TS]

00:08:35   I've been watching a lot of videos the [TS]

00:08:37   punch brothers and nickel creek [TS]

00:08:40   yeah in addition to loving his hosting [TS]

00:08:43   of prairie home companion it's the show [TS]

00:08:45   is transformed [TS]

00:08:47   oh good I'm glad to hear i'm going to [TS]

00:08:49   show you won't listen to but he's been [TS]

00:08:51   doing it for a while and like the guests [TS]

00:08:52   that he has on their way he writes a new [TS]

00:08:54   song every week every week is a really [TS]

00:08:57   good song plays the shit out of a [TS]

00:09:01   mandolin and he's also there's lots of [TS]

00:09:03   good nature jokes about being someone [TS]

00:09:05   who will just just just on Saturday [TS]

00:09:06   night's program he said you know to say [TS]

00:09:08   about mandolin players they spent after [TS]

00:09:10   time tuning and half the time playing [TS]

00:09:11   out-of-tune yeah no problem [TS]

00:09:15   there's a lot of strings and if they're [TS]

00:09:17   very close together mm he's not very [TS]

00:09:19   much real estate every time I pick up a [TS]

00:09:21   man like seriously really want to [TS]

00:09:24   stretch this out a little bit you can [TS]

00:09:26   make this little longer a little wider [TS]

00:09:27   and there'll be more room but he plays [TS]

00:09:29   that thing like like if Jimmy Page was [TS]

00:09:30   good on guitar he just he rips he rips [TS]

00:09:33   on that thing indeed even has the [TS]

00:09:35   presence of mind like when he wants to [TS]

00:09:36   do like quote a famous line when he [TS]

00:09:38   wants to quit the famous line from [TS]

00:09:40   losing my religion he he drops the [TS]

00:09:42   tuning on once one of the strings just a [TS]

00:09:44   little bit so it sounds a little bit [TS]

00:09:45   more Peter Bucky you as we cover isn't [TS]

00:09:47   that nice but I was watching so like I [TS]

00:09:49   say I've been watching a lot of videos [TS]

00:09:50   you know again I'm kind of obsessed with [TS]

00:09:52   that AV Club thing where they come in [TS]

00:09:54   and play covers and they the punch [TS]

00:09:56   brothers did an amazing cover of just [TS]

00:09:59   what i needed totally on ironic cover of [TS]

00:10:01   just what I needed and I notice a lot of [TS]

00:10:03   guys in the band have hats this first [TS]

00:10:06   thing I notice the second thing I notice [TS]

00:10:08   is that there is you don't see two guys [TS]

00:10:11   were in the same hat have you noticed [TS]

00:10:13   this in bands it would be unseemly to [TS]

00:10:15   show up for a performance banjo player [TS]

00:10:17   or otherwise and you turned out to be [TS]

00:10:19   wearing the state's almost like we're in [TS]

00:10:20   the same shirt as somebody else in the [TS]

00:10:21   band like it would be unless that you're [TS]

00:10:23   doing that for up for an effect but to [TS]

00:10:26   highlight that these were twins or [TS]

00:10:27   something like you wouldn't want to wear [TS]

00:10:28   the same hat somebody else in the band [TS]

00:10:29   is that part of the Hat process you have [TS]

00:10:31   to get some get some independence of [TS]

00:10:33   your of your hat so my my understanding [TS]

00:10:36   of perhaps [TS]

00:10:38   which isn't deep or broad but you are [TS]

00:10:44   meant to have your own way [TS]

00:10:48   write your men not just to have your own [TS]

00:10:51   I mean you're meant to have your own [TS]

00:10:52   crown your own style of crown when King [TS]

00:10:56   yeah and every person that I mean from [TS]

00:10:59   the from the olden time like from hume [TS]

00:11:02   times like say 1950 if you look at a [TS]

00:11:05   picture like a crowd shot of people in [TS]

00:11:08   nineteen let's say 1940 over and there's [TS]

00:11:12   you're looking out and there's a sea of [TS]

00:11:14   people and you look at their hats [TS]

00:11:15   they're all wearing hats and you look at [TS]

00:11:17   their hats and everybody's got their own [TS]

00:11:19   individual take on it [TS]

00:11:22   yeah for first glance it looks like a [TS]

00:11:23   lot of men wearing the same happen when [TS]

00:11:25   you look closely you see their different [TS]

00:11:27   styles they're different materials are [TS]

00:11:29   different bands and then they wear it [TS]

00:11:30   differently they might be in a different [TS]

00:11:32   angle and what's what's curious is that [TS]

00:11:34   they're not there's not a huge color [TS]

00:11:36   palette they're brown black tan and gray [TS]

00:11:41   it's not like any of those people is [TS]

00:11:43   wearing a blue hat or certainly not like [TS]

00:11:47   a red hat you know this that they're all [TS]

00:11:49   very muted but yeah the way the brim [TS]

00:11:52   with the brim is the way that the crown [TS]

00:11:56   is the way you kinda gret like you grasp [TS]

00:11:58   it with your hands when you're taking it [TS]

00:11:59   off and and of the hats that I have and [TS]

00:12:03   I have what probably 9 to 12 steps and [TS]

00:12:09   style you know felt vintage felt hats [TS]

00:12:13   that I've come upon in the in the in the [TS]

00:12:15   years and there's one of them in [TS]

00:12:18   particular that really nails it for me [TS]

00:12:21   like that's my look [TS]

00:12:23   that's my hat I as soon as I saw it I [TS]

00:12:25   was like well hello [TS]

00:12:27   and all I and when I said in monkey with [TS]

00:12:31   the other ones and imagine turning the [TS]

00:12:33   other ones into this one we're never [TS]

00:12:35   it's never right and I can never all the [TS]

00:12:38   different you know they're all very [TS]

00:12:39   distinctive because they once belonged [TS]

00:12:41   to somebody and that person from blue [TS]

00:12:43   jeans it would be like getting a pair of [TS]

00:12:45   jeans that somebody warned for 20 years [TS]

00:12:47   right right and [TS]

00:12:49   but oh not just that but somebody it's [TS]

00:12:51   like blue jeans that someone had from [TS]

00:12:53   the day they bought them already [TS]

00:12:55   designed a certain way because it [TS]

00:12:58   because your hat [TS]

00:12:59   it's not like hats came out of the [TS]

00:13:01   factory all uniform and they took on [TS]

00:13:03   these characters characteristics by [TS]

00:13:05   being worn like when you went to the hat [TS]

00:13:08   store you said here's how I want my [TS]

00:13:10   here's how I want my hat steamed and the [TS]

00:13:15   hat person would put the Hat on the [TS]

00:13:17   steamer and then they would create and [TS]

00:13:20   shape mold craft sculpt your how so that [TS]

00:13:26   it was to your liking and you can you [TS]

00:13:30   know you can steam a hat and read redo [TS]

00:13:33   this on it and you can take it happen [TS]

00:13:36   that you don't like and take it down to [TS]

00:13:37   the Hat steamer and have it steamed and [TS]

00:13:39   and made made again made a new so it's a [TS]

00:13:44   it was a whole it was like having your [TS]

00:13:46   suits tailored you would have your hat [TS]

00:13:49   tailored and that's a thing when you [TS]

00:13:53   when you look at it when you look at a [TS]

00:13:54   cowboy band where everybody on stage [TS]

00:13:57   including the stage manager including [TS]

00:14:00   the you know the the guy running across [TS]

00:14:01   the stage dressed all in black with a [TS]

00:14:05   leatherman on his belt and it's kind of [TS]

00:14:07   maglite all of them are wearing hats in [TS]

00:14:10   these cowboy bands and it's not you know [TS]

00:14:13   they might all be black hats but every [TS]

00:14:17   hat i think if these people have any [TS]

00:14:18   class is going to be like yeah you know [TS]

00:14:21   a lot of a lot of mexican bands they all [TS]

00:14:24   would actually wear uniforms they were [TS]

00:14:26   all the same hat and all the same [TS]

00:14:27   clothes from top to bottom I labanda [TS]

00:14:31   band [TS]

00:14:32   yeah yeah I think you will find that [TS]

00:14:35   there have a special section for that [TS]

00:14:37   kind of music do you really yeah the the [TS]

00:14:40   balance of the narco tiros I is in [TS]

00:14:45   Norteno is that what that is [TS]

00:14:47   I'm i dipped into that just a little bit [TS]

00:14:49   but this is going to i'm going to be the [TS]

00:14:51   white guy for a minute just going [TS]

00:14:52   getting burritos out here that means [TS]

00:14:54   gonna go this is a this is very [TS]

00:14:56   interesting music the production of on [TS]

00:14:57   it is extremely I don't capture topic [TS]

00:14:59   here going to get back to the hats but [TS]

00:15:00   it's a very interesting style of music [TS]

00:15:02   and they do some pretty burning covers [TS]

00:15:03   have you ever heard the Banda cover of [TS]

00:15:06   still the one is Wayne but the have nots [TS]

00:15:10   i'm afraid the barber I thought your you [TS]

00:15:12   were you were referencing still the one [TS]

00:15:14   the old NBC from that wasn't me that was [TS]

00:15:20   work that was player player was that [TS]

00:15:22   band player of the band here [TS]

00:15:24   you're still the one you can scratch my [TS]

00:15:25   itch still 12 were still having fun and [TS]

00:15:31   you're starting to launch the one and [TS]

00:15:32   that was a that was a popular song on [TS]

00:15:34   the radio and then I think it was NBC [TS]

00:15:37   ABC ABC or means it was or liens wasn't [TS]

00:15:41   player player was baby come back [TS]

00:15:43   Barry come back dude it thickens [TS]

00:15:47   ah yeah that was still that was still [TS]

00:15:52   hit song on the radio and then it was [TS]

00:15:54   made the ABC television theme right are [TS]

00:15:57   and that was very confusing to me as a [TS]

00:15:59   kid because i was like which is it [TS]

00:16:00   well like what's happening this is being [TS]

00:16:02   played on AM radio found extremely [TS]

00:16:05   confusing [TS]

00:16:06   yeah I'm still confused me and so so the [TS]

00:16:10   the Hat being I feel like a lot of young [TS]

00:16:13   people are not having their hats [TS]

00:16:15   tailored because they don't even notice [TS]

00:16:17   a thing [TS]

00:16:17   yeah and so I don't think you get up [TS]

00:16:20   onstage with the same hat as your band [TS]

00:16:22   mate but I feel like what that has [TS]

00:16:25   produced this I'm getting I'm getting [TS]

00:16:27   super down into this now into the weeds [TS]

00:16:29   in the Hat weeds who what that produces [TS]

00:16:32   hear you you're going onstage with your [TS]

00:16:35   friends here you have decided that [TS]

00:16:36   you're all gonna wear hats and you don't [TS]

00:16:40   want to wear the same hat but you don't [TS]

00:16:43   understand hats very well you don't [TS]

00:16:45   understand that you could all go down [TS]

00:16:47   and buy the same Indiana Jones happened [TS]

00:16:49   just have them steam differently and so [TS]

00:16:52   what you end up with is for people on [TS]

00:16:53   stage who are wearing hats that don't [TS]

00:16:56   belong together [TS]

00:16:58   hot incompatible right so one person's [TS]

00:17:01   wearing like a very very small brimmed [TS]

00:17:05   Frank Sinatra era trilby hat and one [TS]

00:17:09   person's wearing like a flat top [TS]

00:17:11   like a silver buckled mike mccready had [TS]

00:17:18   which is like the bad guy from a certain [TS]

00:17:22   kind of spaghetti western hat a liner [TS]

00:17:25   which means likely je KOB Khun hat right [TS]

00:17:27   yeah and that you've got like somebody [TS]

00:17:29   wearing a straw boater and then there's [TS]

00:17:30   somebody who wearing like a Robin Hood [TS]

00:17:33   have with the giant feather and it's [TS]

00:17:34   like you guys don't this isn't you just [TS]

00:17:37   you just look like you look like a weird [TS]

00:17:40   catalog of shitty hats you don't just [TS]

00:17:45   having perhaps doesn't make you a band [TS]

00:17:47   so it so that that really irks me [TS]

00:17:52   because that it doesn't feel it doesn't [TS]

00:17:54   feel to me like the hat wearers are are [TS]

00:17:58   making the hats their own they're just [TS]

00:18:00   trying to distinguish themselves by [TS]

00:18:02   having I'm an interesting and more an [TS]

00:18:05   interesting style about you going out [TS]

00:18:08   for a take on that you give me your [TS]

00:18:10   diagnosis sure not many people what you [TS]

00:18:15   know again famously one of these things [TS]

00:18:17   were since what JFK people have been [TS]

00:18:19   increasingly wearing fewer hats men have [TS]

00:18:21   been wearing hats less as a thing to [TS]

00:18:23   wear today a hat is a statement in a [TS]

00:18:28   unit of itself and of itself but also by [TS]

00:18:31   virtue of the fact that not many dudes [TS]

00:18:34   wear hats we have also become less [TS]

00:18:36   nuanced in our understanding of what the [TS]

00:18:38   Hat signifies or the subtlety of that [TS]

00:18:41   particular say looking at six hats and [TS]

00:18:42   saying like oh these are actually really [TS]

00:18:43   different but I couldn't have all that [TS]

00:18:45   do you think I mean is something where [TS]

00:18:47   like that so let you go on vacation get [TS]

00:18:49   cornrows or maybe get a Hawaiian shirt [TS]

00:18:51   and you don't really think too much [TS]

00:18:52   about it just think you did his a hat i [TS]

00:18:54   picked up [TS]

00:18:55   it's not something where you're [TS]

00:18:56   investing much in it or you're not even [TS]

00:18:59   still participating in hat culture and [TS]

00:19:01   over way and and this may be a situation [TS]

00:19:03   where my desire to understand the the [TS]

00:19:07   history of a of a culture right [TS]

00:19:10   even little bit in just just a slight [TS]

00:19:13   penetration of the history of [TS]

00:19:15   hat-wearing what hat signify [TS]

00:19:18   at maybe has clouded my ability to [TS]

00:19:23   understand that in the 21st century the [TS]

00:19:25   way hats are worn is like everything [TS]

00:19:28   else in the 21st century it's a complete [TS]

00:19:30   undifferentiated Hodge podgy where it's [TS]

00:19:36   just a checks and polka dots and plaids [TS]

00:19:38   all thrown together and to be even [TS]

00:19:42   remotely interested in the fact that [TS]

00:19:44   this used to mean this or this is this [TS]

00:19:49   is different from that because of this [TS]

00:19:51   change in in history or in tempo or in [TS]

00:19:55   the moment that's no longer relevant and [TS]

00:19:57   the question is what how do you like [TS]

00:19:59   what have you think is cool right now [TS]

00:20:02   and you know that that kind of thing [TS]

00:20:06   maybe i'm being inhibited by my desire [TS]

00:20:09   to have things mean things but like the [TS]

00:20:12   top hat and that the top hat is not a [TS]

00:20:17   single thing if you look at top hats [TS]

00:20:20   from 1820 I guess when they first kind [TS]

00:20:24   of came on the scene up until the the [TS]

00:20:27   top hats of twenties 1920 right I think [TS]

00:20:32   I think you'll find president's wearing [TS]

00:20:34   wearing top hats at formal events i want [TS]

00:20:38   to say at least into the twenties and [TS]

00:20:39   probably thirties where Woodrow Wilson [TS]

00:20:41   you will you will see him off in a top [TS]

00:20:43   hat but i don't think you'll often see [TS]

00:20:46   maybe oh yeah maybe FDR oh my gosh did [TS]

00:20:51   wear them he did wear them but he's a [TS]

00:20:52   very fancy guy Harry Truman never had a [TS]

00:20:55   top hat on so let's just make the [TS]

00:20:57   morning right let's make the line FDR [TS]

00:20:59   was a fancy fancy man and war top at [TS]

00:21:02   Harry lot of photos of him and looks [TS]

00:21:04   like a silk top hat that mean are using [TS]

00:21:06   more like a fedora looking really smooth [TS]

00:21:08   and really smart [TS]

00:21:09   I'm sure somebody's gonna pull out a [TS]

00:21:11   picture of Harry Truman top able to pull [TS]

00:21:13   out a lot of things John Wright but uh [TS]

00:21:16   but all there's a top hat with a top hat [TS]

00:21:18   case [TS]

00:21:19   look at that this has Jesse throwing [TS]

00:21:20   written all over it [TS]

00:21:22   they're beautiful because FDR I that's [TS]

00:21:25   his top hat case [TS]

00:21:26   look at that but the butt [TS]

00:21:27   that the actual had itself in that [TS]

00:21:30   hundred years really really really [TS]

00:21:33   evolved and became like a it was a [TS]

00:21:37   hundred different things so the the the [TS]

00:21:40   top hat chester a arthur war and the top [TS]

00:21:43   hat / where's our like not just the same [TS]

00:21:48   they're not they don't even look [TS]

00:21:49   anything like each other if you put them [TS]

00:21:52   next to one another and if you [TS]

00:21:54   understand she teaching at a university [TS]

00:21:55   so so like choosing it looks so let's [TS]

00:22:04   say so there was a there was a time [TS]

00:22:05   there was a time in be in the early two [TS]

00:22:10   thousands where the the long winters [TS]

00:22:14   took a photo a band photo where we were [TS]

00:22:17   all wearing hats i remember this is [TS]

00:22:22   aaron guys were kind of getting big and [TS]

00:22:25   it was one of your first like we've [TS]

00:22:27   gotten big soda sessions now we have a [TS]

00:22:28   photo your blue shirt with like an [TS]

00:22:30   orange background in that I mean we were [TS]

00:22:33   also wearing suits sometimes we never [TS]

00:22:35   fully under here was a shower showing [TS]

00:22:37   wearing a top hat sean was wearing a top [TS]

00:22:39   i remember this when i went with him to [TS]

00:22:42   the hat store that day and the thing [TS]

00:22:45   about a hat store these a day's a is [TS]

00:22:49   that you're not going to find an elegant [TS]

00:22:52   silk top hat anymore because they're not [TS]

00:22:56   worn know if there's there's no [TS]

00:22:58   situation unless you were like at unless [TS]

00:23:03   you read like the opening day of the of [TS]

00:23:07   the horse track in england right what's [TS]

00:23:10   that day whether be gay [TS]

00:23:12   the Derby Day right Jonas calls but [TS]

00:23:14   Darby this a dark dark turban good [TS]

00:23:16   security they say Clark for it it's [TS]

00:23:21   gonna be a costume it's like me when i [TS]

00:23:22   bought a straw boater you go to store [TS]

00:23:24   there's a c8 there's a single [TS]

00:23:26   high-quality straw boater you can buy [TS]

00:23:27   that's right if your straw boater person [TS]

00:23:29   you're not you're not like splitting [TS]

00:23:32   hairs over this isn't the straw boater I [TS]

00:23:35   want it's like if you want a straw [TS]

00:23:36   boater and that's what we've been [TS]

00:23:38   reduced to write if you go to add [TS]

00:23:39   or and you want a bowler hat there's one [TS]

00:23:42   bowler hat even though there are in the [TS]

00:23:45   history of the bowler hat 25 different [TS]

00:23:48   iterations of the bowler sure but so [TS]

00:23:51   with Sean we wanted a kind of or rather [TS]

00:23:56   Shaun wanted a kind of mad hatter style [TS]

00:24:02   top hat but we've got kind of that sort [TS]

00:24:05   of swirling four starts out kind of [TS]

00:24:08   taking gets more tapered physical yeah a [TS]

00:24:09   little bit it's it's got quite a bit of [TS]

00:24:11   paper but not one all the way to like [TS]

00:24:15   other type of mad hatter hat that you [TS]

00:24:17   would wear if you were going to see he [TS]

00:24:21   allysin chaynes right you don't you [TS]

00:24:25   don't want a beautiful mad hatter hat [TS]

00:24:28   that says like I like my my younger [TS]

00:24:33   sister is a jungle at this episode of [TS]

00:24:38   rock on the line is brought to you by [TS]

00:24:40   Casper you learn more about Casper right [TS]

00:24:42   now by going to Casper calm / supertrain [TS]

00:24:44   Casper is a sleep brand-new created one [TS]

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00:24:53   its award-winning sleep surface was [TS]

00:24:55   developed in house that has a sleek [TS]

00:24:56   design and is delivered in a small how [TS]

00:24:59   did they do that size box in addition to [TS]

00:25:02   the mattress Casper also offers an [TS]

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00:25:06   sheets mattress industry has forced [TS]

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00:25:10   markups Casper is revolutionising the [TS]

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00:25:20   mattress what can we say an in-house [TS]

00:25:21   team of engineers spent thousands of [TS]

00:25:23   hours developing the Casper combined [TS]

00:25:25   supportive memory foams for a sleep [TS]

00:25:27   surface that's got just the right sink [TS]

00:25:29   and just the right balance plus it's [TS]

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00:25:36   the night and go the convenience my [TS]

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00:25:39   completely risk-free Casper offers free [TS]

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00:25:44   night home trial if you don't love it [TS]

00:25:46   i'll pick it up and refund you [TS]

00:25:48   everything because cast for understands [TS]

00:25:50   the importance of truly sleeping on a [TS]

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00:25:53   especially considering that's how you [TS]

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00:25:56   Casper is an obsessively engineering [TS]

00:25:58   mattress and a shockingly fair price [TS]

00:26:00   it combines supportive memory foams to [TS]

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00:26:20   everything Casper mattress is designed [TS]

00:26:23   developed and assembled in the USA [TS]

00:26:27   let me tell you something right now as [TS]

00:26:28   we speak as this episode goes up there [TS]

00:26:30   is a casper mattresses out for delivery [TS]

00:26:32   to my home because you know what i did i [TS]

00:26:35   bought my daughter her own Casper [TS]

00:26:37   mattress she kept asking my wife and I [TS]

00:26:39   if we could please cut our king-size [TS]

00:26:41   casper mattresses in half and give her [TS]

00:26:42   half we were not into that [TS]

00:26:45   so I got her very own so today we're [TS]

00:26:48   gonna have another member of the Casper [TS]

00:26:49   family joining our family [TS]

00:26:51   Hakuna Matata here's the thing you can [TS]

00:26:54   get fifty dollars toward any mattress [TS]

00:26:55   purchased by visiting Casper calm / [TS]

00:26:58   supertrain and using the promo code [TS]

00:27:00   supertrain please remember that terms [TS]

00:27:03   and conditions to apply but would love [TS]

00:27:05   for you to go and check that out you go [TS]

00:27:06   to Casper calm / supertrain once again [TS]

00:27:09   promo code supertrain our thanks to [TS]

00:27:12   Casper for supporting rod on the line [TS]

00:27:14   and all the great shows you want one [TS]

00:27:17   that says that you are like Tom Petty [TS]

00:27:20   mhm during the period when Tom Petty was [TS]

00:27:22   wearing a top hat which Tom Petty did [TS]

00:27:26   for a while before / even Tom had he was [TS]

00:27:30   rocking the top and he was the he was [TS]

00:27:32   that I think the modern rock top hat [TS]

00:27:35   person he be [TS]

00:27:37   he lit the fuse and tanya and and then [TS]

00:27:40   Sean was a a you know he's obviously [TS]

00:27:42   like a I am formidable person he has a [TS]

00:27:47   formidable hair and he needed a hat that [TS]

00:27:50   could that that projected a happiness [TS]

00:27:54   that was as big as he was [TS]

00:27:56   mhm [TS]

00:27:56   right you're not gonna you're not gonna [TS]

00:27:58   show is not gonna wear a trilby and have [TS]

00:28:01   it do anything but make that make the [TS]

00:28:04   Hat ashamed of itself right that will be [TS]

00:28:07   hat is going to slink off and say I'm [TS]

00:28:08   not a big I'm not enough of a hat for [TS]

00:28:10   this person and the top hat was so good [TS]

00:28:14   on Shawn that he wore it periodically [TS]

00:28:18   there are some there are some shots of [TS]

00:28:20   us playing live not just once but [TS]

00:28:24   multiple times with Sean wearing a top [TS]

00:28:26   hat and the rest of us weren't wearing [TS]

00:28:28   hats are in any kind of costume other [TS]

00:28:31   than just our Rock clothes she was [TS]

00:28:33   wearing a top hat and I liked it you [TS]

00:28:36   know it was it looks good like him a lot [TS]

00:28:39   of the time when when when a rock person [TS]

00:28:42   effects a weird thing and my feeling is [TS]

00:28:46   you're like me [TS]

00:28:47   not quite but this top hat on Sean I was [TS]

00:28:50   like absolutely usually wear it everyday [TS]

00:28:52   i think not i just sent you a photo i [TS]

00:28:54   found off the internet of this when your [TS]

00:28:56   sessions here [TS]

00:28:57   photo shoots Eric swearing like an [TS]

00:28:59   amelia earhart aviator helmet you about [TS]

00:29:02   a what you call yours is not a Homburg [TS]

00:29:04   use it is a number i would i would call [TS]

00:29:08   it a Homburg Michael is wearing what [TS]

00:29:10   appears to be a wig and the outsider [TS]

00:29:13   been some kind of brown hat [TS]

00:29:14   yeah the wig the wig belongs to me and [TS]

00:29:16   the brown hat belongs to me Michael did [TS]

00:29:19   not a did not have those things in his [TS]

00:29:22   own good for Mike library good i was [TS]

00:29:27   funny as at that point you know up until [TS]

00:29:30   I don't want to i don't i don't want to [TS]

00:29:32   feel too much [TS]

00:29:33   no we usually redact this yeah but [TS]

00:29:35   Michael had you know Michael had only [TS]

00:29:38   recently shaved his head and him greatly [TS]

00:29:41   had been liberated because shaving your [TS]

00:29:44   head now you're now you are not any more [TS]

00:29:47   concerned about what's going on with [TS]

00:29:49   your hair [TS]

00:29:49   remember that 12 hours after we met [TS]

00:29:51   Chris camellia shape too set in my [TS]

00:29:53   kitchen [TS]

00:29:53   oh right that he was going through a [TS]

00:29:56   real phase then we want to keep it tidy [TS]

00:29:58   don't know did I retire we were driving [TS]

00:30:00   through a bad a desert on the way home [TS]

00:30:03   from a tour we played our last show [TS]

00:30:05   we're in Nevada [TS]

00:30:06   and the crib and everybody else is [TS]

00:30:08   asleep i'm driving chris is in the [TS]

00:30:09   passenger seat he said pull over here [TS]

00:30:11   will you take milk you know this is like [TS]

00:30:14   UFO country and I see your gotta go to [TS]

00:30:17   the bathroom and he said no i just i'd [TS]

00:30:21   like you to pull over i think im gonna [TS]

00:30:22   walk home from here and I said said [TS]

00:30:27   Chris the middle of the night in the [TS]

00:30:28   middle of a desert not gonna let you out [TS]

00:30:30   to walk home it would it would take you [TS]

00:30:33   five months he was like I really I [TS]

00:30:36   really feel like that's what I want to [TS]

00:30:38   do I really feel like right now I want [TS]

00:30:39   you to pull over and I want you to let [TS]

00:30:41   me out i'm gonna walk home [TS]

00:30:42   I was like you know winnemucca is a [TS]

00:30:45   six-day walk from here and there's [TS]

00:30:48   nothing between here and there except [TS]

00:30:49   UFOs then I talked him out of it but he [TS]

00:30:53   was sincere if I pulled over he would [TS]

00:30:56   have gotten out with his bag like he was [TS]

00:30:59   very he wasn't like let me out of the [TS]

00:31:01   drunk he wasn't mad he was just like I'm [TS]

00:31:04   gonna get out here and obviously he [TS]

00:31:07   wouldn't have died he would have finally [TS]

00:31:09   figured out and put his thumb out and [TS]

00:31:11   hitchhiked to win market probably about [TS]

00:31:13   a bus ticket but maybe he would have [TS]

00:31:15   walked who knows but yeah at that time [TS]

00:31:17   in your kitchen was like I'm shaving my [TS]

00:31:19   head right now but I'm sorry I should've [TS]

00:31:20   said he was sooo shading Michael said oh [TS]

00:31:23   oh I see what you're saying he shaped [TS]

00:31:25   Michaels head [TS]

00:31:26   yeah I feel like I remember this pretty [TS]

00:31:28   clearly and really thinking hard seems a [TS]

00:31:29   little familiar for known each other 12 [TS]

00:31:31   hours my kitchen I see what you're [TS]

00:31:34   saying for my children play but but what [TS]

00:31:42   about Chris I chris is a delight I bet [TS]

00:31:45   he was a handful he was he was a very [TS]

00:31:47   very quick very very funny i don't know [TS]

00:31:49   how you guys made it with you and Chris [TS]

00:31:52   and Sean in that same van that is there [TS]

00:31:55   so many competing super strong [TS]

00:31:59   personalities i mean not the other guys [TS]

00:32:01   don't have it but like those it's you [TS]

00:32:05   and you and Sean were enough but with [TS]

00:32:07   chris and the next thing as a wild-card [TS]

00:32:08   man with an amazing thing about Chris [TS]

00:32:11   was that heat [TS]

00:32:14   in the nineties in seattle Chris was not [TS]

00:32:16   regarded as funny you know it wasn't a [TS]

00:32:22   thing that he would have said he would [TS]

00:32:24   he'd never projected like I'm the funny [TS]

00:32:26   one right and when it was a we have a [TS]

00:32:28   culture here of people that were doing a [TS]

00:32:30   lot of of playwriting and there were a [TS]

00:32:34   lot of actors there was a lot of music [TS]

00:32:38   about we had a pretty tight an [TS]

00:32:40   interesting group of multi talented [TS]

00:32:42   people that were doing all kinds of art [TS]

00:32:44   and Chris was not really he was he was [TS]

00:32:49   deeply in the mix but he but he he never [TS]

00:32:52   said like I'm funny I'm doing funny [TS]

00:32:54   things he was sort of you know he was [TS]

00:32:58   like the handsome One [TS]

00:33:00   let's let's put it let's put it how it [TS]

00:33:02   is he was the handsome One and he worked [TS]

00:33:05   as a bartender downtown and he was [TS]

00:33:06   charming and he had a lot of girlfriends [TS]

00:33:08   and his charm was was pretty quick you [TS]

00:33:12   know somebody would come up to the bar [TS]

00:33:13   and they'd say something snarky to the [TS]

00:33:14   bartender and Chris could put them he [TS]

00:33:17   could put him away but again he wasn't [TS]

00:33:20   you know like I'll I month I'm funny and [TS]

00:33:23   Chris was a friend of mine and I never [TS]

00:33:26   thought like oh chris is really much [TS]

00:33:29   competition in the funny department but [TS]

00:33:33   we got on the road and I think this was [TS]

00:33:36   as much a revelation for him as it was [TS]

00:33:37   for the rest of us and Chris all of a [TS]

00:33:41   sudden uh it seemed out of nowhere [TS]

00:33:45   revealed this incredible talent of [TS]

00:33:50   storytelling comedic voices comedic like [TS]

00:33:56   personalities such that he could take up [TS]

00:34:00   I mean we could get drive for five hours [TS]

00:34:02   and Chris would just be doing a sort of [TS]

00:34:04   one man performance the entire time and [TS]

00:34:07   though and Sean and I so so part of the [TS]

00:34:11   the dynamic between me and Sean was that [TS]

00:34:16   we you know we were both we were both [TS]

00:34:20   funny but also we're trying to sort of [TS]

00:34:24   you get [TS]

00:34:25   deep were we were you know we were [TS]

00:34:28   having critical discussions about [TS]

00:34:30   critical thought blah blah blah blah [TS]

00:34:34   blah and Chris just cut through that [TS]

00:34:37   like a hot blade because chris just did [TS]

00:34:42   an hour of a he basically we were [TS]

00:34:44   driving through the desert he would be [TS]

00:34:46   like well this is you know Bob Jenkins [TS]

00:34:48   Arizona northern Arizona radical radio [TS]

00:34:51   and he would just do like a radiant like [TS]

00:34:52   a talk radio guy from the location we [TS]

00:34:56   were in the appropriate voice and with [TS]

00:34:59   be and as though you were listening to [TS]

00:35:01   the radio and we would all Sean and I [TS]

00:35:04   could do was periodically be like ring [TS]

00:35:06   ring hi [TS]

00:35:07   you know it's a like it's a collar and [TS]

00:35:10   ends and Chris would take the call [TS]

00:35:12   like wow let's go ahead caller and we [TS]

00:35:14   would have something we'd give some kind [TS]

00:35:16   of we try to throw some tennis ball in [TS]

00:35:20   there and he would just very definitely [TS]

00:35:22   take our call and handle and it was what [TS]

00:35:25   we would like to tears streaming down [TS]

00:35:26   their faces and I had known chris at [TS]

00:35:28   that point for 10 years and I have never [TS]

00:35:31   seen it before and no one I know had and [TS]

00:35:34   I don't think Chris had we drove around [TS]

00:35:37   for a year where you couldn't wait to [TS]

00:35:41   get into the truck and well and in a [TS]

00:35:43   situation where you would think like [TS]

00:35:46   Sean and I were always jockeying for who [TS]

00:35:51   was in a jockey for top dog but Chris [TS]

00:35:54   just blew the whole thing out of the [TS]

00:35:56   water Christmas was faster than Sean [TS]

00:35:59   faster than me faster than this both but [TS]

00:36:02   there wasn't any real resentment or [TS]

00:36:04   competition in it because he was so much [TS]

00:36:08   better [TS]

00:36:08   well that you could shine the chanting [TS]

00:36:11   city absolutely Sean fella Sean fell in [TS]

00:36:13   love with him and and it's hard and I [TS]

00:36:16   think it's hard for Shawn to fall in [TS]

00:36:18   love with with somebody that is like [TS]

00:36:20   operating at that kind of level and sean [TS]

00:36:23   just I mean just loved loved loved him [TS]

00:36:25   to this day [TS]

00:36:26   so it was a tragedy that Chris couldn't [TS]

00:36:30   stay in the band because he really made [TS]

00:36:32   those i just made those miles disappear [TS]

00:36:34   and was a source of a lot of a lot of [TS]

00:36:39   like real joy not just a distraction not [TS]

00:36:43   just like law but he he was tapped into [TS]

00:36:46   you've tapped into some bigger thing [TS]

00:36:50   we're just did they must have been such [TS]

00:36:51   a gift at certain times I just I can't [TS]

00:36:53   imagine the drudgery of what that trip [TS]

00:36:55   could be sometimes if things weren't you [TS]

00:36:58   know it was an incredible gift and and [TS]

00:37:01   and it caused me to realize like why he [TS]

00:37:04   had been such a successful bachelor like [TS]

00:37:06   looking back 10 years before I did hate [TS]

00:37:10   Chris in 1993 because you'd be sitting [TS]

00:37:14   in a baby sitting at a table talking to [TS]

00:37:17   somebody that you wanted to check on the [TS]

00:37:20   bird heebie-jeebie jam somebody up and [TS]

00:37:23   Chris would walk through and he would [TS]

00:37:27   never see it's not like you'd steal [TS]

00:37:29   somebody from right underneath you [TS]

00:37:31   but he'd come in and out and this is the [TS]

00:37:33   other crazy thing he wouldn't sit down [TS]

00:37:34   across the table from you and be like [TS]

00:37:36   the brightest light and everyone flock [TS]

00:37:40   to him it didn't work that way he would [TS]

00:37:43   just be sitting over there and my kid [TS]

00:37:46   his seduction was all done in whispers [TS]

00:37:49   you never knew what he was saying [TS]

00:37:52   through because somebody would you know [TS]

00:37:53   we'd be sitting there and crystalline [TS]

00:37:55   over to go buzz buzz buzz in their ear [TS]

00:37:57   and they would go and then they leave [TS]

00:38:00   and you're like what the hell does he [TS]

00:38:02   say things like that and and so so later [TS]

00:38:08   on I realized like all he you know what [TS]

00:38:11   he was saying what in their ear with [TS]

00:38:13   something probably pretty amazing but he [TS]

00:38:16   never he never showed this until until [TS]

00:38:19   this period of just a couple of years [TS]

00:38:22   where where he was barking through the [TS]

00:38:26   sky and and that and the problem was it [TS]

00:38:30   was only happening in the van [TS]

00:38:32   like when we got on stage huh [TS]

00:38:35   there wasn't really an opportunity for [TS]

00:38:37   him to step up to the microphone [TS]

00:38:39   and do this routine and he wasn't really [TS]

00:38:42   comfortable in on the microphone you [TS]

00:38:45   know like it if he had an opportunity to [TS]

00:38:47   join in that kind of thing that like [TS]

00:38:50   onstage banter right in front of a crowd [TS]

00:38:53   he didn't that wasn't where he wanted to [TS]

00:38:55   be he didn't like it there and we were [TS]

00:38:58   in the van every day like always got you [TS]

00:39:00   know we have to make a TV show about you [TS]

00:39:02   we have to like we're just strategizing [TS]

00:39:04   how do we get you in front of people [TS]

00:39:06   you're the world's greatest actor you do [TS]

00:39:09   any voice and after he left the band he [TS]

00:39:14   went to New York City he joined an [TS]

00:39:16   improv theater group he joined likes UCB [TS]

00:39:19   what's really but uh huh never made it [TS]

00:39:23   above the like the level of people that [TS]

00:39:27   were paying to take classes at UCB right [TS]

00:39:29   and he talked a couple classes at UCB [TS]

00:39:31   but it's not like he joined the [TS]

00:39:33   successful improv group while he's still [TS]

00:39:35   handsome look at him he's very handsome [TS]

00:39:37   guy and he went to as a great great hair [TS]

00:39:40   the greatest he had great hair when it [TS]

00:39:43   was when he was young and it was [TS]

00:39:44   completely jet black and then as it [TS]

00:39:46   started to get song pepper it was great [TS]

00:39:48   it never stopped being great my great [TS]

00:39:50   uncle my great uncle Truman who was in [TS]

00:39:54   the Merchant Marines had the exact same [TS]

00:39:56   hair he was German was 85 years old and [TS]

00:40:00   his hairline had not budged an inch from [TS]

00:40:04   when he was 15 years old just look like [TS]

00:40:06   a just look like a washer brush like a [TS]

00:40:10   like a badger brush anyway I met Chris [TS]

00:40:14   was one of my closest friends for a long [TS]

00:40:16   time and I haven't talked to him in a [TS]

00:40:19   couple years don't know what's going on [TS]

00:40:21   with him like somehow it wasn't somehow [TS]

00:40:25   that pressure cooker of being in that [TS]

00:40:29   van and I think part of the pressure of [TS]

00:40:31   being in that van was that Shawn Nelson [TS]

00:40:33   was there and that i was there and then [TS]

00:40:35   that was a that was a kind of audience [TS]

00:40:39   and a kind of a cauldron [TS]

00:40:43   but if i could if i if i could put on [TS]

00:40:47   tape the that year and a half in the van [TS]

00:40:49   you know it was it was a I got something [TS]

00:40:55   I can't quite account for you know like [TS]

00:40:58   you meet people and you feel like I know [TS]

00:41:00   you are like I i know you Marilyn and if [TS]

00:41:03   we went on a road trip together and you [TS]

00:41:05   cracked me up the entire time i would I [TS]

00:41:07   have an idea of what that would be like [TS]

00:41:09   right you could crack me up the entire [TS]

00:41:12   time and but I know what it would look [TS]

00:41:15   like [TS]

00:41:16   huh but I didn't see this coming in this [TS]

00:41:19   was somebody had known for years and he [TS]

00:41:20   was my roommate for Christ's sake for [TS]

00:41:22   three years but i didn't i have never [TS]

00:41:26   seen this before this and it's not that [TS]

00:41:30   he wasn't himself he was still himself [TS]

00:41:32   he just all of a sudden just had the [TS]

00:41:33   power of complete mimicry and the power [TS]

00:41:37   of you of just like a character [TS]

00:41:41   improvisation and character I feel like [TS]

00:41:44   this is a phenomenon that you could most [TS]

00:41:45   succinctly summarized as just because [TS]

00:41:48   you can crack up your frat brothers is [TS]

00:41:51   no guarantee that you would be a good [TS]

00:41:53   stand-up comedian for many many many [TS]

00:41:55   reasons and we started tackling that you [TS]

00:41:57   realize how complicated all those things [TS]

00:41:59   are there are some people who crack up [TS]

00:42:00   their friends who could potentially [TS]

00:42:02   become a comedy writer you could become [TS]

00:42:04   like a comedy producer and this isn't [TS]

00:42:06   just true for comedy stripper music is [TS]

00:42:08   true for lots of things but it's it's so [TS]

00:42:10   rare to be able to take it let's just [TS]

00:42:14   stick with comedy for a minute but to [TS]

00:42:16   take that skill of being funny to people [TS]

00:42:18   around you and convert that into being [TS]

00:42:20   funny professionally month stage or [TS]

00:42:23   screen because it takes this totally [TS]

00:42:25   different skill I mean there's this [TS]

00:42:26   totally different like x factor that [TS]

00:42:29   goes beyond knowing how to crack up John [TS]

00:42:31   and sean and you know Erica Michael and [TS]

00:42:34   I mean and it's but it's it feels like [TS]

00:42:36   it's right there could feel like it's [TS]

00:42:37   right there just like slightly out of [TS]

00:42:39   reach but then you realize oh but [TS]

00:42:41   there's there's the the grind of having [TS]

00:42:44   to get into a group like that or like [TS]

00:42:45   having to make this decision to like [TS]

00:42:47   just a really good interview with Keegan [TS]

00:42:48   Michael key about his name [TS]

00:42:50   you know the guy from can deal w about [TS]

00:42:53   how he basically they're asking like how [TS]

00:42:55   we decided to go to MADtv rather than [TS]

00:42:57   something else likes a sound like he's [TS]

00:42:59   like well as money like they were paying [TS]

00:43:00   better at that man TV and that is also [TS]

00:43:03   where he ended up working even working [TS]

00:43:05   with um his partner and doing like [TS]

00:43:07   writings writing sketches together [TS]

00:43:10   I don't know that this is a topic that I [TS]

00:43:12   was found so interesting and you can [TS]

00:43:13   expand it way beyond comedy comedy is [TS]

00:43:15   where I feel like one of the places [TS]

00:43:17   where you can feel it [TS]

00:43:19   most strongly is that what what a leap [TS]

00:43:22   is to go from cracking up your friends [TS]

00:43:24   to doing this for a living and I think [TS]

00:43:26   it's true for music i think is true it [TS]

00:43:28   could be true for writing it's just is [TS]

00:43:29   true for so many things and I wonder how [TS]

00:43:32   often people who have succeeded with [TS]

00:43:34   something could even like go to a high [TS]

00:43:36   school and give a talk on how it is that [TS]

00:43:38   they were able to make it big because I [TS]

00:43:40   bet there's so many ineffable qualities [TS]

00:43:42   and micro decisions that would be almost [TS]

00:43:44   impossible for that person to identify [TS]

00:43:46   well i think i think you're right the [TS]

00:43:49   number of guitar players I've known [TS]

00:43:53   between the time that I first started on [TS]

00:43:56   guitar players let's say I was 15 right [TS]

00:43:59   it's funny that i never i never knew a [TS]

00:44:00   kid that was 10 years old and and [TS]

00:44:03   already a virtuoso the first guitar [TS]

00:44:07   players i was even aware of i guess [TS]

00:44:09   freshman year in high school I knew that [TS]

00:44:11   there were there were guitar players [TS]

00:44:13   that you mean it was the thing that you [TS]

00:44:17   could actually do it wasn't just on TV [TS]

00:44:18   but by 15 I like new guitar players i [TS]

00:44:22   owned a guitar but from that point until [TS]

00:44:26   the present day I have known so many [TS]

00:44:29   guitar players and so many of them were [TS]

00:44:33   amazing amazing musicians and amazing [TS]

00:44:36   even like songwriters who couldn't get [TS]

00:44:41   you couldn't get to a situation couldn't [TS]

00:44:45   get two of two a position where they [TS]

00:44:47   were in a good band [TS]

00:44:49   like let alone you got a good man that [TS]

00:44:54   went anywhere [TS]

00:44:55   look like they couldn't even put it [TS]

00:44:57   together to get into a good band they [TS]

00:45:00   either kept trying to make kept trying [TS]

00:45:04   to flog bands with a fatal flaw or [TS]

00:45:08   bounced from one band of the next and [TS]

00:45:10   couldn't ever settle in somewhere or [TS]

00:45:13   wanted the band to be really centered on [TS]

00:45:17   them but they were missing a crucial [TS]

00:45:18   skill like singing and you and you feel [TS]

00:45:25   like then there are those few instances [TS]

00:45:29   where you're sitting with somebody and [TS]

00:45:31   they start to walk that idly hum along [TS]

00:45:34   with the radio and you go [TS]

00:45:36   whoa I didn't know you could sing uh huh [TS]

00:45:39   you know sing along with the radio no no [TS]

00:45:41   you have an incredible voice and it [TS]

00:45:43   happens over i was in an eyewitness I i [TS]

00:45:47   regret to this day not seek not doing a [TS]

00:45:51   better job of corralling this person but [TS]

00:45:53   I was in one of those something called a [TS]

00:45:55   rock lottery we get started in Austin [TS]

00:45:59   but we had 11 in Seattle and I think [TS]

00:46:02   maybe it's still ongoing but what would [TS]

00:46:04   happen is they would invite a dozen [TS]

00:46:07   musicians across a wide spectrum of of [TS]

00:46:11   instruments and ability and put them all [TS]

00:46:13   together you know divide them up into [TS]

00:46:15   like the groups of five and more than [TS]

00:46:18   two dozen musicians like hear your five [TS]

00:46:20   of you your five of you like there's two [TS]

00:46:22   bass players a clarinetist a person [TS]

00:46:25   playing hand drums and opera singer in [TS]

00:46:28   this group and and then you're [TS]

00:46:30   responsible for writing a song and then [TS]

00:46:33   singing in at the end or performing at [TS]

00:46:34   the end of the day it's a it's a [TS]

00:46:37   interesting it's one of those things [TS]

00:46:40   that's interesting to do and interesting [TS]

00:46:44   to watch [TS]

00:46:45   I'm not sure that if it was happening in [TS]

00:46:47   the garage of the house across the [TS]

00:46:48   street right now I would go over there [TS]

00:46:50   to watch my guess I probably would it [TS]

00:46:51   would be noisy i would have to deal with [TS]

00:46:53   it but I i participated in one of those [TS]

00:46:57   and one of the other groups so at the [TS]

00:46:59   end concert were watching the show and [TS]

00:47:01   it was like oh yeah that's really [TS]

00:47:02   interesting you guys had a you guys had [TS]

00:47:05   a sermon player has something bad [TS]

00:47:06   something he's wearing a hat but there [TS]

00:47:11   was one of the bands that had a a singer [TS]

00:47:14   ma and he was a guy that just looked [TS]

00:47:16   like kind of a punk [TS]

00:47:17   punky guy also wearing a hat and a [TS]

00:47:20   leather jacket and seemed like something [TS]

00:47:21   to smoke a lot of cigarettes and he [TS]

00:47:22   seemed fun but he started to sing and I [TS]

00:47:26   just saw the future of music and Emma [TS]

00:47:30   like you're the most rock'n'roll person [TS]

00:47:32   i ever saw and it wasn't that she was [TS]

00:47:35   that rocket looking it was just that his [TS]

00:47:38   voice it came out and I was like I want [TS]

00:47:41   to start a band with you I want to be [TS]

00:47:43   the I want to be the guitar player in [TS]

00:47:45   your band and I don't want to play [TS]

00:47:46   anything complicated i want to play [TS]

00:47:48   three chords every song is three chords [TS]

00:47:50   because it's all it would need I just [TS]

00:47:52   want to be that person [TS]

00:47:54   loud guitar behind you while you do that [TS]

00:47:56   whatever it is and I went up to him [TS]

00:47:58   afterwards I was like wow you're [TS]

00:48:00   incredible who do you play for and he [TS]

00:48:03   named tsombe and that I hadn't heard of [TS]

00:48:06   him that I haven't heard of now and I [TS]

00:48:11   was like wow I really love to a year get [TS]

00:48:14   together sometime or like just to meet [TS]

00:48:16   for coffee or something and he he was [TS]

00:48:19   kind but he was he very much had that [TS]

00:48:22   like I'm i'm pretty happy with the with [TS]

00:48:25   my band the lampshades sounds like okay [TS]

00:48:29   well cool i mean still you know we [TS]

00:48:32   should hang out he was like how we [TS]

00:48:33   should totally do that maybe wasn't like [TS]

00:48:35   he was condescending he was just like [TS]

00:48:36   pretty much saw a lot of you just saw [TS]

00:48:40   what he saw his future in the lampshades [TS]

00:48:42   and I really wish I'd gotten his name [TS]

00:48:46   because it's because in music it's it [TS]

00:48:49   always changes right six months later he [TS]

00:48:51   might have been like I wonder who that [TS]

00:48:53   guy was i'd really like to get in touch [TS]

00:48:54   with them [TS]

00:48:55   but it doesn't happen very often where [TS]

00:48:58   you see somebody that has that kind of [TS]

00:49:00   gift that no one has you know that a [TS]

00:49:04   gift and it's like they just stepped off [TS]

00:49:06   the bus from Spokane in Hollywood and [TS]

00:49:07   they're like which way do i turn [TS]

00:49:09   yeah I want to make it in the big town [TS]

00:49:11   and you want to be the creep in the [TS]

00:49:13   powder blue link on Mel is parked across [TS]

00:49:16   the street from the bus station was like [TS]

00:49:17   they need a ride a ride in a hot meal [TS]

00:49:19   but I I i know i think i know what [TS]

00:49:23   you're talking about and is funny thing [TS]

00:49:25   when you think about how you would in [TS]

00:49:28   some ways how you this is very cynical [TS]

00:49:30   but how you could reverse-engineer [TS]

00:49:31   success out of a lot of careers you take [TS]

00:49:35   a person who is humble easy to get along [TS]

00:49:39   with shows up on time looks for [TS]

00:49:42   opportunities to be helpful constantly [TS]

00:49:45   improves their craft is open to change [TS]

00:49:49   and accepting but I you think about like [TS]

00:49:53   what like what makes people successful [TS]

00:49:55   yeah whether you know whether it's a [TS]

00:49:56   guitar player or an actuarial or [TS]

00:49:59   whatever there's these certain qualities [TS]

00:50:01   that you see and lots of people they may [TS]

00:50:03   not be considered the name Abraham [TS]

00:50:05   Lincoln of what they do but there's [TS]

00:50:07   somebody that everybody could look at [TS]

00:50:08   and go oh that person's a pleasure to be [TS]

00:50:09   with and was great to work with them you [TS]

00:50:12   know you somebody like you talked about [TS]

00:50:13   christina aquilera how she's always the [TS]

00:50:15   hardest working person in the room so [TS]

00:50:17   you take all those kinds of qualities [TS]

00:50:19   i'm probably missing some missing a few [TS]

00:50:22   but anybody who has to do work with [TS]

00:50:25   other people and in kind of changing [TS]

00:50:28   situations the kind of qualities you [TS]

00:50:30   would want everybody it would almost be [TS]

00:50:32   better to engineer this this super race [TS]

00:50:36   of terminators of people who had all of [TS]

00:50:38   those qualities and then teach them [TS]

00:50:40   guitar or give them voice lessons or do [TS]

00:50:43   these other things because in all the [TS]

00:50:44   things we're talking about [TS]

00:50:45   sometimes it's just reluctant or not [TS]

00:50:47   seeing that that's who you are who you [TS]

00:50:48   could be but so often it's like well you [TS]

00:50:50   know it's really if you really think [TS]

00:50:51   about what we do instead it's kind of [TS]

00:50:53   bananas [TS]

00:50:54   wow I somehow accidentally got really [TS]

00:50:56   good at guitar so you know why am I not [TS]

00:51:00   in the rock and roll hall of fame was [TS]

00:51:02   like what did you check all those other [TS]

00:51:03   boxes because all these other things are [TS]

00:51:05   so important this is [TS]

00:51:07   yeah I think about this quite a bit [TS]

00:51:08   right because we're just think about our [TS]

00:51:10   our good friend Lindsey Buckingham [TS]

00:51:13   yeah who by all accounts is a miserable [TS]

00:51:16   awful person to not just work with [TS]

00:51:18   mirror sounds very very unpleasant if [TS]

00:51:21   you've seen that documentary of the [TS]

00:51:23   Fleetwood Mac getting back together some [TS]

00:51:26   getting back together documentary I [TS]

00:51:27   forget what it was [TS]

00:51:28   where they're working on some album in [TS]

00:51:32   recent times and lindsey is just I mean [TS]

00:51:36   you can't even stand to be you can you [TS]

00:51:38   have to avert your eyes from the screen [TS]

00:51:40   while he's on this because you just have [TS]

00:51:41   there's so much bad blood in that band [TS]

00:51:43   for so many very good reasons that it's [TS]

00:51:46   such an act of graciousness just to even [TS]

00:51:49   be in a room with each other that like [TS]

00:51:51   you would all just so you all want to be [TS]

00:51:52   on your best behavior and say you know [TS]

00:51:54   bygones be bygones and let's just let's [TS]

00:51:56   just agree not to be assholes with each [TS]

00:51:58   other for a few days and I try to take [TS]

00:52:00   this thing and there's a camera in the [TS]

00:52:03   room so you're aware that too [TS]

00:52:06   and yet all through all the years of [TS]

00:52:08   like Fleetwood Mac gossip of course i [TS]

00:52:13   always thought that Stevie next would be [TS]

00:52:14   the difficult one right she's dancing [TS]

00:52:17   around in the end of thousands carbs and [TS]

00:52:20   and sing about Rhiannon like she's going [TS]

00:52:23   to be the high maintenance person but [TS]

00:52:26   watching these documentaries you go [TS]

00:52:27   Stevie Nicks is amazing she's the sole [TS]

00:52:30   of like patient professionalism and [TS]

00:52:36   Lindsey Buckingham is driving me and [TS]

00:52:39   everyone else crazy and they are going [TS]

00:52:40   to great lengths to accommodate him and [TS]

00:52:42   yet here he is this incredible guitar [TS]

00:52:44   player and great not only pushing [TS]

00:52:47   pushing his personality into the center [TS]

00:52:49   of everything and this is the this is so [TS]

00:52:52   so this is I am I think not [TS]

00:52:55   not an invalid line of questioning which [TS]

00:52:59   is that in our contemporary world we're [TS]

00:53:03   taking it as as a as read that what we [TS]

00:53:08   should be doing with our kids and in the [TS]

00:53:10   inner culture at large is removing all [TS]

00:53:13   obstacles for friendly good-natured [TS]

00:53:17   people we should be teaching [TS]

00:53:18   friendliness and goodnight [TS]

00:53:20   students we should be removing from the [TS]

00:53:22   we should be removing obstacles from the [TS]

00:53:24   path of young people so that they don't [TS]

00:53:27   have to confront adversity in the same [TS]

00:53:30   way that we did right we we no longer [TS]

00:53:32   put our cigarettes out on our children's [TS]

00:53:35   arms who like but that's how John bender [TS]

00:53:37   became John bender right John bender was [TS]

00:53:41   the coolest guy in the breakfast club [TS]

00:53:42   okay it's just because nobody else had [TS]

00:53:46   that nobody's father never put a cigar [TS]

00:53:47   out on them it's gonna make an omelet [TS]

00:53:49   you gotta break some kids right here so [TS]

00:53:53   but but the question is like Lindsey [TS]

00:53:54   Buckingham is awful john lennon was [TS]

00:53:56   awful and would those people in those [TS]

00:54:01   people now have been kicked had been [TS]

00:54:04   bumped out of whatever their career path [TS]

00:54:07   was at a much earlier time by people [TS]

00:54:10   saying you are awful your novel bully [TS]

00:54:14   your ear and you're a mean person and so [TS]

00:54:18   you're not going to be given this [TS]

00:54:19   opportunity or we're going to be [TS]

00:54:21   privileged nglish at your behavior over [TS]

00:54:25   your talent and so were dissing cluding [TS]

00:54:29   you and we're including you know Joe [TS]

00:54:32   good-nature over here but what you're [TS]

00:54:34   missing is the what ends up like [TS]

00:54:38   neutering the art is the discomfort the [TS]

00:54:42   the missing discomfort the missing [TS]

00:54:44   frisian and what you end up is sort of [TS]

00:54:47   you would end up with is this kind of [TS]

00:54:49   like gray nutritive pace of music and [TS]

00:54:54   culture that I think we're eat work even [TS]

00:54:57   now starting to see like the very few [TS]

00:55:00   very few people who are really burning [TS]

00:55:03   bright in that way where where where [TS]

00:55:06   they're so captivated be so captivating [TS]

00:55:09   because they're on this bike path of [TS]

00:55:11   self-destruction that you see like oh my [TS]

00:55:13   god they're going to create or so hard [TS]

00:55:15   and then they don't you know like button [TS]

00:55:18   even a nile rodgers or whatever in 1978 [TS]

00:55:23   he was it not on the path that we think [TS]

00:55:26   of he's on now right he was really [TS]

00:55:29   burning burning bright alright [TS]

00:55:31   just not he wasn't a bad guy but that [TS]

00:55:33   your people a lot of a lot of material [TS]

00:55:36   out there to continue living hard so I [TS]

00:55:40   so I don't know i mean i-i you never [TS]

00:55:42   want to and obviously you can't you [TS]

00:55:45   can't reverse engineer you can't say [TS]

00:55:46   like oh let's if you sit in this chair [TS]

00:55:48   you pretty as your finger with a needle [TS]

00:55:50   everyday for an hour that will give you [TS]

00:55:53   the the association with pain it will [TS]

00:55:56   give you the familiarity with pain that [TS]

00:55:58   will allow you to write meaningful music [TS]

00:56:01   or make meaningful art but but we we are [TS]

00:56:05   right now is it in a in a moment in [TS]

00:56:08   human culture where we are hostile to [TS]

00:56:11   pain and and devoting a tremendous [TS]

00:56:16   amount of energy to relieve pain and [TS]

00:56:18   suffering from from as at from as many [TS]

00:56:21   people as we can to to the as guys [TS]

00:56:25   greater degree as we can and painting [TS]

00:56:28   strong a word because I mean you know I [TS]

00:56:32   think it's normal to say like I don't [TS]

00:56:33   make it to have an infection and die [TS]

00:56:35   it's nothing to say like I don't watch [TS]

00:56:36   out ever be inconvenienced yeah [TS]

00:56:39   but-but-but yeah there is that there is [TS]

00:56:42   that weird world between infection and [TS]

00:56:45   death and inconvenience but i think this [TS]

00:56:48   is all happening you know just always [TS]

00:56:50   gets into the things like we've in in [TS]

00:56:53   quotes bad words this is yeah this [TS]

00:56:56   larger issue of like nothing should ever [TS]

00:56:58   come along that makes you feel that the [TS]

00:57:01   in my daughter's class there is a child [TS]

00:57:05   who at a certain point just this year [TS]

00:57:08   went through a kind of looking glass and [TS]

00:57:12   by all accounts before was a very nice [TS]

00:57:14   person and now is it is a hitter and the [TS]

00:57:20   school district doesn't know what to do [TS]

00:57:22   the school district isn't very [TS]

00:57:25   well-equipped I mean this isn't the [TS]

00:57:27   first time this has happened and they [TS]

00:57:29   have a lot of they have a lot of [TS]

00:57:31   solutions on a long continuum [TS]

00:57:33   and one of them is a weighted vest and [TS]

00:57:37   one of them is uh an employee of the [TS]

00:57:40   school that comes into the class and is [TS]

00:57:43   you know an assistant to deal with this [TS]

00:57:45   kid and I know the kid and he's a he's [TS]

00:57:47   oh you can see he's a lovely little boy [TS]

00:57:49   and he actually there is something going [TS]

00:57:51   on he does not want to hit he doesn't [TS]

00:57:54   want to be a he doesn't want to be [TS]

00:57:57   having this experience a lot of people [TS]

00:57:59   to understand i don't appreciate that [TS]

00:58:02   about you know these problem kids is [TS]

00:58:04   like you can just see the misery of them [TS]

00:58:07   like being run by some kind of clockwork [TS]

00:58:09   and they don't like it either [TS]

00:58:10   yeah something's inside him redone and [TS]

00:58:12   his his parents never saw it before so [TS]

00:58:14   they don't know how to deal with it and [TS]

00:58:16   it only happened when he went to school [TS]

00:58:18   for the first time he and so hit but now [TS]

00:58:21   we're in a situation where my daughter [TS]

00:58:23   comes home from school every day and [TS]

00:58:25   says well you know I got hit again as [TS]

00:58:30   you later [TS]

00:58:30   he's hitting everybody how God and [TS]

00:58:33   nobody wants to be around him but he's [TS]

00:58:37   also a nice kid him and people want to [TS]

00:58:39   play with him but what it what is [TS]

00:58:41   happening ultimately is that everyone in [TS]

00:58:45   the class is being affected by like they [TS]

00:58:47   are getting they are having an inferior [TS]

00:58:49   experience of school because a component [TS]

00:58:53   of being in school is that you might get [TS]

00:58:56   hit at any time by this kid and he's [TS]

00:58:59   disrupting learning and so here but [TS]

00:59:06   we're in this problem of like to at what [TS]

00:59:09   point is he removed from school at what [TS]

00:59:12   point is he sequestered at what point is [TS]

00:59:15   he put into a into a box of like the [TS]

00:59:19   unredeemable but by the same token do [TS]

00:59:23   all the other kids have a have a right [TS]

00:59:26   to be able to be in school and not feel [TS]

00:59:30   like they're gonna get hit and you know [TS]

00:59:32   he's not like a he's not a big kid he's [TS]

00:59:34   a small kid he's just like they did this [TS]

00:59:37   just happens right here and i think [TS]

00:59:40   every parent in the school and and and [TS]

00:59:43   and given the [TS]

00:59:44   given the makeup of of this particular [TS]

00:59:46   elementary school it's really [TS]

00:59:48   astonishing to me the amount of just [TS]

00:59:52   general sort of class-wide patience [TS]

00:59:56   everybody has their is necessarily [TS]

00:59:58   different [TS]

00:59:58   different [TS]

01:00:00   yeah there is no parent that I've about [TS]

01:00:02   that iĆ­ve yet experienced in this group [TS]

01:00:04   he's like my child is having their [TS]

01:00:07   education affected and I want this dealt [TS]

01:00:09   with now everybody's just like well [TS]

01:00:13   let's see what let's see what let's see [TS]

01:00:15   let's try other things [TS]

01:00:18   well we're three-quarters of the way [TS]

01:00:20   through the school year and when I talk [TS]

01:00:23   to my daughter about it I and I and I [TS]

01:00:32   think back on my own childhood you know [TS]

01:00:35   there were kids that hit me later kids [TS]

01:00:36   that their kids that hit and you and [TS]

01:00:41   ultimately like the amount that her [TS]

01:00:44   education is being affected by it i feel [TS]

01:00:48   like there's another side of that which [TS]

01:00:49   is that she's getting an education in [TS]

01:00:52   the fact that that there are people that [TS]

01:00:55   hit and then nobody else knows what to [TS]

01:00:58   do like the grown-ups don't have a [TS]

01:01:00   solution and this is painful it's [TS]

01:01:05   painful for him it's painful for [TS]

01:01:07   everybody and it's one of the it's one [TS]

01:01:10   of the things and and the adults that [TS]

01:01:15   feel like they should i mean and i think [TS]

01:01:18   in a lot of other cases and it might [TS]

01:01:19   just be that we have a very lucky group [TS]

01:01:22   of 22 parents where everybody is where [TS]

01:01:26   everybody recognizes that the depth of [TS]

01:01:28   the of the complication you could be in [TS]

01:01:32   a lot of other schools and there would [TS]

01:01:33   be some crusader who demanded that there [TS]

01:01:36   was something done or or somewhere in [TS]

01:01:40   the in the school administration office [TS]

01:01:42   this got put into the file folder of [TS]

01:01:46   bullying who which we've all agreed is a [TS]

01:01:50   no-tolerance thing and then this kid [TS]

01:01:52   becomes tagged as somebody that needs [TS]

01:01:55   not just like special accommodation but [TS]

01:01:58   needs to need some punitive [TS]

01:02:01   three in traditional yeah and so forth [TS]

01:02:06   and so on but but what we're what is the [TS]

01:02:09   history there is a 56 year old kid [TS]

01:02:11   yes six years old yeah um or-or-or that [TS]

01:02:15   he needs to be medicated like profoundly [TS]

01:02:18   medicated to a you know in order to [TS]

01:02:22   survive in in order that he be a good [TS]

01:02:27   six-year-old in this context where the [TS]

01:02:31   stakes are [TS]

01:02:32   listen to stories learn to use scissors [TS]

01:02:36   you know learn your alphabet who in [TS]

01:02:41   order to do that he needs to be on some [TS]

01:02:43   kind of like cocktail of drugs and so my [TS]

01:02:46   take on it is look weird [TS]

01:02:48   we're just trying to we're just trying [TS]

01:02:52   to be in this on this Ark hopefully [TS]

01:02:56   every year there won't be another kid [TS]

01:02:59   who is like who makes you scared but [TS]

01:03:04   there's always going to be a kid that's [TS]

01:03:05   a problem there maybe are a couple and [TS]

01:03:08   one of the things that you learn when [TS]

01:03:11   you have a kid that hits is don't stand [TS]

01:03:14   too close to him or don't be next to him [TS]

01:03:17   without being aware that he might hit [TS]

01:03:19   you at any point like be his friend be [TS]

01:03:22   nice to him but keep one aisle and these [TS]

01:03:25   aren't necessarily bad lessons you know [TS]

01:03:27   it's not what you would want its what [TS]

01:03:29   you're everything you're describing [TS]

01:03:30   their I feel like somebody who you know [TS]

01:03:37   have my own room [TS]

01:03:38   I was mostly safe school safe [TS]

01:03:39   neighborhoods you know one of the things [TS]

01:03:41   i found challenging for a lot of my [TS]

01:03:43   adulthood is just on the superclass of [TS]

01:03:46   issues i'm going to call dealing with [TS]

01:03:47   neighbors so that would be people that [TS]

01:03:49   could be your roommate in college it [TS]

01:03:51   could be people in the adjacent room [TS]

01:03:53   people above people below but people you [TS]

01:03:55   do not have control over and people were [TS]

01:03:59   you can just press a button and make [TS]

01:04:00   them change even if they are quote [TS]

01:04:03   unquote wrong in your eyes and a lot of [TS]

01:04:05   times and to get your head right about [TS]

01:04:06   this you think everybody's wrong it's [TS]

01:04:07   not doing it the way you want you know [TS]

01:04:09   they're they're using their car at the [TS]

01:04:10   wrong time and effort [TS]

01:04:12   you put out their trash wrong about [TS]

01:04:14   these all these grievances that you can [TS]

01:04:16   come up with because maybe and I'm just [TS]

01:04:19   speaking for myself maybe because I got [TS]

01:04:20   very accustomed to be able being able to [TS]

01:04:22   control my environment and have recourse [TS]

01:04:24   for when it didn't go my way [TS]

01:04:26   a certain kind of privilege if you like [TS]

01:04:27   and I think that's one thing we're what [TS]

01:04:30   you're describing here is super [TS]

01:04:31   complicated especially with little kids [TS]

01:04:33   we're not talking about somebody who's [TS]

01:04:34   in 10th Grade and setting fire bombs [TS]

01:04:36   we're talking it sounds like this sounds [TS]

01:04:38   very similar to what happens at my kids [TS]

01:04:40   school which there are little kids that [TS]

01:04:42   are mm they're different they're they're [TS]

01:04:45   not they're not govern herbal in the way [TS]

01:04:49   that everybody would like them to be so [TS]

01:04:51   as you say so what is solution we put [TS]

01:04:53   them in the brown reading group do we [TS]

01:04:55   fill him full of drugs like what do we [TS]

01:04:56   do but that to me that's that's that's [TS]

01:04:59   one place where like it's been a hard [TS]

01:05:01   road for me is dealing with the [TS]

01:05:02   superclass of issues that i will call [TS]

01:05:04   neighbors because I felt like who i [TS]

01:05:06   would do you like Yosemite Sam like [TS]

01:05:08   you've got to stop being that way and [TS]

01:05:10   like no they don't have to stop being [TS]

01:05:11   that way [TS]

01:05:12   thankfully if you grow up amidst lots [TS]

01:05:15   and lots of people living a 24-hour life [TS]

01:05:17   in a way that doesn't comport with yours [TS]

01:05:19   you [TS]

01:05:20   well then you naturally grow up [TS]

01:05:21   understanding that well you know I could [TS]

01:05:23   put in earplugs or i can move or I could [TS]

01:05:25   do these other things but it's like [TS]

01:05:27   pushing a rope to try and change [TS]

01:05:28   everybody to conform to your idea of how [TS]

01:05:31   that behavior should go and in the case [TS]

01:05:33   of the poor people your school and the [TS]

01:05:35   poor people in my school I mean there's [TS]

01:05:36   really at least two problems one problem [TS]

01:05:37   is that what the kids doing is [TS]

01:05:38   disruptive and potentially dangerous [TS]

01:05:39   gotta deal with that he said the [TS]

01:05:42   government apart is the hard part get [TS]

01:05:44   one kid in class like that I'm very [TS]

01:05:45   sympathetic to this because these poor [TS]

01:05:47   people are just at sixes and sevens with [TS]

01:05:49   the resources they have to get one kid [TS]

01:05:51   like that in a class it's a pain in the [TS]

01:05:52   ass when I want you to kids like that [TS]

01:05:55   yeah we get two and a half three kids [TS]

01:05:56   like that in the class and pretty soon [TS]

01:05:58   that teacher is spending sixty to eighty [TS]

01:06:01   percent of their time just being a [TS]

01:06:03   referee or a paramedic [TS]

01:06:07   yeah right and that any other the other [TS]

01:06:08   kids are just going to their fingernails [TS]

01:06:10   and that's not why we sent him to school [TS]

01:06:12   not getting noticed let alone rewarded [TS]

01:06:14   for the fact that they're not punching [TS]

01:06:15   somebody else or you know so i might [TS]

01:06:19   might might take on what my [TS]

01:06:21   responsibilities here is is that my [TS]

01:06:25   like everybody's trying to figure out [TS]

01:06:27   what to do with this little boy and the [TS]

01:06:30   and everyone is taxed because of all the [TS]

01:06:32   things that you're saying you can't just [TS]

01:06:34   change him you can't take him out [TS]

01:06:36   you can't you can't add adapt the entire [TS]

01:06:42   school to him but what i can do is not [TS]

01:06:47   be a problem in the sense that i can use [TS]

01:06:53   it as a teaching experience for my kid [TS]

01:06:55   and we can you know and and you never [TS]

01:07:00   want to say like I'm sending my kid to [TS]

01:07:02   this school and now i'm in a position [TS]

01:07:03   where we're trying to make the best of [TS]

01:07:06   it but in fact that's what you're always [TS]

01:07:09   doing in every situation you send your [TS]

01:07:12   kid to the public school and you try to [TS]

01:07:14   make the best of it and even if [TS]

01:07:15   everybody in the school is friendly you [TS]

01:07:17   just your kids getting educated or mass [TS]

01:07:20   who [TS]

01:07:22   nobody's getting a tailored experience [TS]

01:07:24   and in this situation there is this [TS]

01:07:25   other this other issue and if it wasn't [TS]

01:07:29   a little boy if there was a if there was [TS]

01:07:33   a radiator in the class that everyday at [TS]

01:07:36   145 suddenly went on with no and and [TS]

01:07:40   couldn't be turned off and the [TS]

01:07:41   temperature of the room went up 202 [TS]

01:07:43   there are lots of kids in America that [TS]

01:07:47   are in a classroom like that and if it [TS]

01:07:49   was just that right across the street [TS]

01:07:52   from your kids elementary school was a [TS]

01:07:54   guy with the jackhammer that for an hour [TS]

01:07:56   every day jack-hammered for [TS]

01:07:58   month-and-a-half that's also something [TS]

01:08:02   that's happening in schools across [TS]

01:08:03   America and so in this situation i'm [TS]

01:08:07   trying to help that little boy and his [TS]

01:08:09   family and the school and my own kid by [TS]

01:08:12   saying yeah you know what sometimes you [TS]

01:08:15   gotta eat sometimes it's the neighbor [TS]

01:08:17   problem and your neighbor put the [TS]

01:08:19   garbage out wrong [TS]

01:08:20   and after you leave five super [TS]

01:08:23   passive-aggressive notes tape to the [TS]

01:08:25   garbage you have to realize they're not [TS]

01:08:27   going to change and so don't let [TS]

01:08:31   yourself be in a situation where you get [TS]

01:08:33   hit by this kid how about that it sucks [TS]

01:08:36   but it's better than and you know I mean [TS]

01:08:39   look at what would you advise be for [TS]

01:08:40   something like what are you gonna do you [TS]

01:08:42   stop writing public transit because [TS]

01:08:44   occasionally there's somebody out there [TS]

01:08:45   on their acting erratically and you're [TS]

01:08:47   not talking about bombs going off every [TS]

01:08:49   month you're talking about the [TS]

01:08:50   occasional interactions with people who [TS]

01:08:52   are who you can control their doing [TS]

01:08:54   things you don't like and scare you [TS]

01:08:56   and in that case I mean the only [TS]

01:08:58   solution is to walk away [TS]

01:09:00   I feel like we're now over a kind of [TS]

01:09:03   hump where there is at least at this [TS]

01:09:06   level I'm surprised I i went into public [TS]

01:09:10   school thinking that we were stead the [TS]

01:09:12   that the other parents and that the [TS]

01:09:14   conditions within the school [TS]

01:09:16   we're going to be kind of as I imagined [TS]

01:09:18   they were 10 to 15 years ago where this [TS]

01:09:21   would have been addressed with a lot of [TS]

01:09:24   over action that there that this would [TS]

01:09:31   have been an emergency situation it [TS]

01:09:33   would have been a situation where the [TS]

01:09:35   the parents of the child were really [TS]

01:09:38   over examined like super launching the [TS]

01:09:42   proletariat turns into something must be [TS]

01:09:43   done about this now my Chum you my child [TS]

01:09:45   is in this school too and is being you [TS]

01:09:48   know harassed and bullied and subjected [TS]

01:09:50   to physical violence by this other kid [TS]

01:09:52   and I want redress you know all that [TS]

01:09:54   stuff that I imagined was what was going [TS]

01:09:57   on in the school's 10 years ago because [TS]

01:09:58   i remember then you know I lived through [TS]

01:10:01   those years and I thought that's what [TS]

01:10:03   what what is how it would be now and I [TS]

01:10:06   feel like there is because of the ebb [TS]

01:10:09   and flow of time there has been [TS]

01:10:11   reintroduced into these institutions and [TS]

01:10:14   I think it's largely because the parents [TS]

01:10:16   are different are coming from a [TS]

01:10:18   different place some reality and some [TS]

01:10:21   sense of like you know what yeah this is [TS]

01:10:23   just how it is and and when we all [TS]

01:10:26   recognize that there are limited [TS]

01:10:28   resources and we all recognize that this [TS]

01:10:29   is a real this is just one of the normal [TS]

01:10:31   challenges of life and so nobody's gonna [TS]

01:10:33   go to prison and nobody's going to be [TS]

01:10:35   put on ritalin we're just going to [TS]

01:10:37   figure out a workaround here and you [TS]

01:10:39   know what's funny is when I come into [TS]

01:10:41   the school now [TS]

01:10:42   the teacher will often say hey will you [TS]

01:10:45   go over and just give him a really big [TS]

01:10:47   strong hug right now I'm the first time [TS]

01:10:51   I was like what [TS]

01:10:52   because I liked him but I wasn't sure if [TS]

01:10:56   that was even allowed she was like yeah [TS]

01:10:58   I think that he I can feel him like [TS]

01:11:00   building up and I think what he needs is [TS]

01:11:03   a big strong hug from a big man this is [TS]

01:11:05   it this is a thing and I was like wow [TS]

01:11:07   okay and so I went over and I was like [TS]

01:11:09   hey buddy how's it going [TS]

01:11:11   come on in and he was like huh and I [TS]

01:11:13   wrapped him up and give him like this [TS]

01:11:15   bear you're a good guy you know and you [TS]

01:11:18   could just feel him like you know like [TS]

01:11:21   you just wanted he just wanted somebody [TS]

01:11:24   that was way bigger than he was to [TS]

01:11:27   envelop him for a sec you see the temple [TS]

01:11:29   grandin movie with the claire danes now [TS]

01:11:32   I remember [TS]

01:11:33   I you know last night I was watching [TS]

01:11:35   Claire Danes movie called homeland [TS]

01:11:37   melancholia melancholia uh-huh and Emily [TS]

01:11:42   hearings in the movie she invents a [TS]

01:11:44   machine for like basically squeezing [TS]

01:11:46   herself and they're trying to throw out [TS]

01:11:47   of school because if they get some kind [TS]

01:11:49   of a sex thing I think there's a lot of [TS]

01:11:51   the lot of thought on this now also I [TS]

01:11:53   thought about getting a weighted blanket [TS]

01:11:55   because we have as its under best I [TS]

01:11:58   thought I thought about I mean because I [TS]

01:11:59   i think that will call me down a lot but [TS]

01:12:02   when I'm anxious when I sleep I think [TS]

01:12:03   having a way to blank would help but I [TS]

01:12:06   think I think there's a lot to that a to [TS]

01:12:09   the sort of self [TS]

01:12:10   well the swaddling is basically what [TS]

01:12:13   absolutely yeah [TS]

01:12:14   swaddle your ass and I think there are a [TS]

01:12:17   lot of people probably listening to this [TS]

01:12:19   program for right now thinking is there [TS]

01:12:21   a way that i could find something in my [TS]

01:12:22   own house to swallow myself with right [TS]

01:12:24   now sucks modeling just yeah you gotta [TS]

01:12:26   get a little bit [TS]

01:12:27   everything is a weighted blanket yeah [TS]

01:12:29   i'm i'm betting you don't have one now [TS]

01:12:31   look into it it's hard to get from [TS]

01:12:33   amazon prime because they're pretty [TS]

01:12:34   heavy [TS]

01:12:34   yeah right i mean that's thing shipping [TS]

01:12:36   its shipping that's consistently get you [TS]

01:12:38   yeah that's how the kitchen but uh but i [TS]

01:12:41   do feel like i do feel like part of [TS]

01:12:44   being sane and raising a child in the [TS]

01:12:48   same way [TS]

01:12:49   is to not expect that there's a solution [TS]

01:12:52   to every problem to not expect that you [TS]

01:12:55   are going to get perfect redress for [TS]

01:12:56   every complaint and that's and I feel [TS]

01:13:01   like that maybe was the philosophy for a [TS]

01:13:03   while there and that is that it was that [TS]

01:13:06   it you know that where we are now is a [TS]

01:13:10   product of having been through that and [TS]

01:13:12   seen oh we're not going to go back to a [TS]

01:13:16   time when the bully was on the [TS]

01:13:19   playground and was like physically [TS]

01:13:21   torturing your child but we're also not [TS]

01:13:24   going to take every kid that brings like [TS]

01:13:28   that every kid that sits out on the [TS]

01:13:30   playground and sharpened stick [TS]

01:13:32   we're not gonna immediately put him into [TS]

01:13:34   protective custody here like I'm trying [TS]

01:13:37   to be circumspect about this cuz I i [TS]

01:13:40   think when you get into these issues it [TS]

01:13:41   is helpful to think about privilege i [TS]

01:13:43   really i really do because one thing [TS]

01:13:45   you're saying there is like I think he [TS]

01:13:47   was making a really good point here [TS]

01:13:48   about like you know how you get redress [TS]

01:13:50   there's that term they use I think it's [TS]

01:13:51   a legal term they say to be made whole [TS]

01:13:53   which is the idea that somebody has done [TS]

01:13:56   something or cause something to happen [TS]

01:13:57   to you that has taken money from you [TS]

01:14:00   it's taking usually money but sticking [TS]

01:14:01   something from you and now there has to [TS]

01:14:03   be some way to make sure that that is [TS]

01:14:05   made right that you are essentially made [TS]

01:14:07   whole meaning so i can one example well [TS]

01:14:09   if you're working in a mine and you lose [TS]

01:14:11   an arm just hypothetically because the [TS]

01:14:14   company was careless about something [TS]

01:14:15   well you can't give me my arm back but [TS]

01:14:17   you should give me something to [TS]

01:14:18   compensate for the fact that you took my [TS]

01:14:20   arm that's gonna have a huge impact on [TS]

01:14:22   my life now what we're going to do to [TS]

01:14:24   make me whole so to speak [TS]

01:14:26   right but then idea i think that is an [TS]

01:14:28   idea that you talk about it like sort of [TS]

01:14:30   a baseline of like we need to get back [TS]

01:14:32   to my normal i think that is such a [TS]

01:14:34   privileged position and people are not [TS]

01:14:36   aware of it is like what he listened [TS]

01:14:38   what is the rest of the world going to [TS]

01:14:39   do to get me back to where I'm [TS]

01:14:41   comfortable about how all this works [TS]

01:14:43   right to me this is just a thousand [TS]

01:14:45   angles here into this whole like you [TS]

01:14:47   know whether it's making America great [TS]

01:14:48   again which is essentially this idea of [TS]

01:14:50   let's go back to a time when everybody [TS]

01:14:52   but white people had a reason to be [TS]

01:14:53   scared when we could we could demand [TS]

01:14:55   that we be made whole and everybody had [TS]

01:14:57   to capitulate to that because reasons [TS]

01:15:00   I don't know I just and I do agree with [TS]

01:15:02   what you're saying also we're like my [TS]

01:15:03   kids in school for certain number of [TS]

01:15:06   years uh it's feels so different than [TS]

01:15:10   when i was a kid i got my just because [TS]

01:15:12   I'm an old man now but like I don't know [TS]

01:15:15   there's just so many things that seem so [TS]

01:15:16   different and there does seem to be less [TS]

01:15:19   hysteria about almost everything that I [TS]

01:15:22   expected what it is for parents or [TS]

01:15:24   whether that's from the teachers the [TS]

01:15:25   faculty the faculty and the staff like [TS]

01:15:27   there's just less hysteria about stuff [TS]

01:15:30   than there used to be I'm super [TS]

01:15:31   gratified by its it's so much better [TS]

01:15:34   than I expected because i wanted to [TS]

01:15:36   dealing with adults you're not dealing [TS]

01:15:37   with a slightly advantage children who [TS]

01:15:39   are wondering how they're getting ripped [TS]

01:15:40   off [TS]

01:15:41   yeah yeah I i really i really did expect [TS]

01:15:44   that i was going to sit in a group of [TS]

01:15:45   parents and say like well you know kids [TS]

01:15:49   will be kids and they would all go [TS]

01:15:51   no kids will not be kids anymore and in [TS]

01:15:55   fact everyone's just like yeah I tried [TS]

01:15:57   to make cake pops to make them all to [TS]

01:16:01   appease them but they're monsters [TS]

01:16:04   I was like yeah high fives all around [TS]

01:16:06   right cakepops don't solve anything do [TS]

01:16:07   they [TS]

01:16:08   I i feel i feel like when i hear that [TS]

01:16:12   made whole thing and that whole [TS]

01:16:15   mentality i just i reflected his pickup [TS]

01:16:18   that just pick up that just a little bit [TS]

01:16:20   and it's completely it's crazy is what [TS]

01:16:23   it is is like I think about so all those [TS]

01:16:25   you and you're like you're getting your [TS]

01:16:26   olive oils father in the world owes you [TS]

01:16:28   an apology [TS]

01:16:29   it seems like it seems from what i hear [TS]

01:16:32   is to people in divorce court and you're [TS]

01:16:37   going to be needing it [TS]

01:16:38   yeah and if you think about be number of [TS]

01:16:41   of uh of divorces where that feeling [TS]

01:16:47   that i'm going to be made whole and I'm [TS]

01:16:51   gonna take it out of of my partner were [TS]

01:16:54   splitting up and i'm going to be made [TS]

01:16:55   whole and and the acrimony that comes [TS]

01:16:59   into a divorce when in fact everybody [TS]

01:17:04   got about what their do right like you [TS]

01:17:06   can be made whole here [TS]

01:17:07   you're breaking up and it's not a [TS]

01:17:09   question even of money like you're just [TS]

01:17:11   mad [TS]

01:17:12   or you're sad and you want you and you [TS]

01:17:16   feel like your arm got locked off and [TS]

01:17:19   you've lost all sympathy for your [TS]

01:17:21   partner and so you're going to be made [TS]

01:17:23   whole and and the divorce takes the [TS]

01:17:27   takes a path where what could have been [TS]

01:17:30   I mean it's like the it's like the the [TS]

01:17:33   partition of Palestine or whatever there [TS]

01:17:36   was a moment when arafat could have [TS]

01:17:38   signed the piece of paper and nobody [TS]

01:17:40   would have been happy but there was [TS]

01:17:43   there was a solution their bill clinton [TS]

01:17:44   was standing there with his fucking hat [TS]

01:17:47   full of milk and it was like we all [TS]

01:17:50   agreed [TS]

01:17:51   here it is here's the plan we all agreed [TS]

01:17:53   on this we've been working on this for [TS]

01:17:54   decades [TS]

01:17:55   this is it here it is this is the moment [TS]

01:17:57   and Arafat was like but if I do that I [TS]

01:17:59   won't be popular with the you-know-what [TS]

01:18:01   the with my little gang and so nope i'm [TS]

01:18:05   not going to do it and then it was like [TS]

01:18:06   that was the one chance in history and [TS]

01:18:10   and you blew it because you wanted to be [TS]

01:18:13   made whole in a way that you couldn't be [TS]

01:18:15   made whole [TS]

01:18:16   there was never a way to actually work [TS]

01:18:18   for peace as peaceful solution here and [TS]

01:18:21   also for everyone to get what they want [TS]

01:18:23   and particularly for you to be made [TS]

01:18:25   whole naked network nobody getting yeah [TS]

01:18:27   and and I think about all the divorces [TS]

01:18:29   that happen where it's like you're right [TS]

01:18:31   there you both acknowledged like this is [TS]

01:18:34   it were done like you get the car i get [TS]

01:18:36   the boat who hears our visitation here's [TS]

01:18:40   like the you know here's how it all [TS]

01:18:43   splits up but you want me to say that I [TS]

01:18:47   was wrong or you want or I'm not going [TS]

01:18:51   to leave here until you shake my hand or [TS]

01:18:54   continuous festivus and it's time for [TS]

01:18:55   the airing of grievances here's all the [TS]

01:18:57   things that I have been storing up and [TS]

01:18:59   tolerating for years and i wanted i want [TS]

01:19:01   to give you this excel spreadsheet of [TS]

01:19:04   emotional brokenness then I want to go [TS]

01:19:06   through each item and explain it and [TS]

01:19:07   apologize and pay me for it right and [TS]

01:19:09   entering into the court record and at [TS]

01:19:12   that point what could have been a like [TS]

01:19:16   largely amicable solution to what is a [TS]

01:19:19   fairly normal [TS]

01:19:21   problem of two people splitting up goes [TS]

01:19:23   into a thing where it will it can never [TS]

01:19:25   be repaired and it was over nothing [TS]

01:19:28   it was over something symbolic or some [TS]

01:19:30   desire to be made to to have a thing [TS]

01:19:33   that cannot be redressed be made right [TS]

01:19:36   and in in a and I try to I try to see in [TS]

01:19:41   every conflict now and particularly you [TS]

01:19:43   know since I'm since i'm now receiving [TS]

01:19:47   treatment for mental illness and say [TS]

01:19:50   like is there a way to be made right [TS]

01:19:52   here [TS]

01:19:53   no because time has passed i can never [TS]

01:19:56   be made young again [TS]

01:19:58   look we're putting a band-aid on a wound [TS]

01:20:00   that healed or scarred years ago [TS]

01:20:04   yeah like no I no amount of neosporin is [TS]

01:20:06   going to fix that wound i was at a i was [TS]

01:20:09   at a music commission meeting the other [TS]

01:20:10   day and one of the one of the magazine's [TS]

01:20:13   here in town that the weeklies wrote an [TS]

01:20:16   article about the music Commission and [TS]

01:20:19   that article made the music Commission [TS]

01:20:22   visible for the first time to people in [TS]

01:20:26   the larger community were like oh [TS]

01:20:27   there's music Commission and so we had a [TS]

01:20:31   commission meeting in our in City Hall [TS]

01:20:33   where we sit around and the chairman has [TS]

01:20:36   a gavel and people give us power point [TS]

01:20:38   demonstrations and we sit at a big table [TS]

01:20:39   with nameplates out in front of it and [TS]

01:20:42   all of a sudden there were all these [TS]

01:20:43   people in the room and it was like and [TS]

01:20:45   every time we have a meeting it's like [TS]

01:20:47   all right well we'd like to open it up [TS]

01:20:48   for public comment and periodically [TS]

01:20:50   somebody gets up and says hey I you know [TS]

01:20:52   I just I work for real networks and I [TS]

01:20:54   just thought I'd come and see the [TS]

01:20:55   meeting thanks for having me [TS]

01:20:57   they sit down and you have great alright [TS]

01:20:58   anyway like who approves the meetings [TS]

01:21:01   are you know let's improve the the notes [TS]

01:21:03   from the last meeting or whatever i [TS]

01:21:04   don't hardly page but this time the [TS]

01:21:09   Chairman was like uh let's open it up to [TS]

01:21:12   public comments and several people got [TS]

01:21:16   up who were members of a protected class [TS]

01:21:20   here in Seattle which are the people who [TS]

01:21:22   get up at public meetings and ramp about [TS]

01:21:26   their problem with the quick with the [TS]

01:21:28   city you know they're probably the city [TS]

01:21:30   and so there were [TS]

01:21:33   several people who gave little speeches [TS]

01:21:35   but two of them gave and they worked in [TS]

01:21:39   concert with one another they were like [TS]

01:21:40   a little a team one got up and gave a [TS]

01:21:43   15-minute long speech where she [TS]

01:21:46   excoriated the music commission for [TS]

01:21:48   things that we can do nothing about and [TS]

01:21:52   then her friend followed up and both [TS]

01:21:54   very emotional long presentations about [TS]

01:21:59   how it was all our fault about something [TS]

01:22:00   and they haven't even been aware there [TS]

01:22:01   was music commission until that this [TS]

01:22:03   article came out the week before so [TS]

01:22:05   we're sitting there just like when it's [TS]

01:22:06   very emotional like whoa this is really [TS]

01:22:08   heavy and it's emotional in a way that [TS]

01:22:10   the Chairman feels like I don't want to [TS]

01:22:13   interrupt because this seems very [TS]

01:22:15   cathartic for you or like maybe this is [TS]

01:22:17   stuff we all need to hear this type of [TS]

01:22:19   thing and at one point one of the women [TS]

01:22:22   said in the in the height of her fury [TS]

01:22:25   about palvin justices she said you know [TS]

01:22:29   and now i'm standing here and you know [TS]

01:22:33   and now i'm standing here leaning on a [TS]

01:22:34   cane [TS]

01:22:35   I used to be young and it was like whoa [TS]

01:22:40   I don't think the music Commission has [TS]

01:22:42   the power to see really buried the lead [TS]

01:22:43   with that one ya like I don't think we [TS]

01:22:45   can address that God that you used to be [TS]

01:22:48   young but you know this is the public [TS]

01:22:52   comment period now I don't resent the [TS]

01:22:54   word look pretty it up as they're all [TS]

01:22:56   these e-mails back and forth from music [TS]

01:22:58   commissioners like all apologizing to [TS]

01:23:00   each other because no one knew what to [TS]

01:23:01   do and it was like hey you know you you [TS]

01:23:04   know what nobody knew what to do in [TS]

01:23:05   there don't its you don't have to [TS]

01:23:07   apologize it's a it's it's a good that's [TS]

01:23:13   a while I'm did you guys decide to take [TS]

01:23:14   any action as a result I i moved that we [TS]

01:23:18   make her young again but I didn't get a [TS]

01:23:22   second there was just a long comfortable [TS]

01:23:24   silence [TS]

01:23:27   it's so painful [TS]