00:00:00 ◼ ► so let's start with some follow-up why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/0">TS</a>]
00:00:02 ◼ ► did chris lattner decide to leave Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2">TS</a>]
00:00:04 ◼ ► last week we talked about this and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4">TS</a>]
00:00:07 ◼ ► tried to list all the reasons we could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7">TS</a>]
00:00:09 ◼ ► think of why he might be leaving and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/9">TS</a>]
00:00:14 ◼ ► threads of speculation and didn't really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/14">TS</a>]
00:00:15 ◼ ► get a listener feedback about anybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/15">TS</a>]
00:00:17 ◼ ► did reply was mostly voting for one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/17">TS</a>]
00:00:18 ◼ ► the things we talked about but here's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/18">TS</a>]
00:00:21 ◼ ► the thing i was topic unless there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/21">TS</a>]
00:00:22 ◼ ► some kind of like secret doomsday thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/22">TS</a>]
00:00:25 ◼ ► about Apple that only Chris knows it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/25">TS</a>]
00:00:27 ◼ ► not actually that important that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/27">TS</a>]
00:00:29 ◼ ► figure out like why he left apple or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/29">TS</a>]
00:00:31 ◼ ► what was in his heart of hearts like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/31">TS</a>]
00:00:32 ◼ ► aside from just being busy bodies are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/32">TS</a>]
00:00:34 ◼ ► just wanting to know like a gossip type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/34">TS</a>]
00:00:35 ◼ ► stuff and second pragmatically speaking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/35">TS</a>]
00:00:39 ◼ ► this is just not the type of thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/39">TS</a>]
00:00:41 ◼ ► people who leave Apple talk about or you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/41">TS</a>]
00:00:43 ◼ ► know if they do talk about it's like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/43">TS</a>]
00:00:45 ◼ ► years and years later after everyone no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/45">TS</a>]
00:00:46 ◼ ► one cares anymore or you know like it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/46">TS</a>]
00:00:49 ◼ ► so even if there was some deep dark [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/49">TS</a>]
00:00:51 ◼ ► reason it's not like we would know about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/51">TS</a>]
00:00:53 ◼ ► it until years from now and honestly the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/53">TS</a>]
00:00:55 ◼ ► straightforward boring explanation is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/55">TS</a>]
00:00:56 ◼ ► probably the right one anyway so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/56">TS</a>]
00:00:59 ◼ ► know I don't know what do you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/59">TS</a>]
00:01:00 ◼ ► Chris that sounds about right to me John [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/60">TS</a>]
00:01:02 ◼ ► would you ever buy an electric car in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/62">TS</a>]
00:01:11 ◼ ► why are you so mean to be barca no no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/71">TS</a>]
00:01:13 ◼ ► I'm fine red cars there you get all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/73">TS</a>]
00:01:16 ◼ ► yellow thank you get them yellow that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/76">TS</a>]
00:01:19 ◼ ► my guess alright we obviously need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/79">TS</a>]
00:01:22 ◼ ► talk about what's happening right now so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/82">TS</a>]
00:01:23 ◼ ► ATP is not interested in interview show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/83">TS</a>]
00:01:26 ◼ ► but in extraordinary circumstances weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/86">TS</a>]
00:01:30 ◼ ► things can happen and so in today's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/90">TS</a>]
00:01:34 ◼ ► circumstance former apple employee Chris [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/94">TS</a>]
00:01:37 ◼ ► lander was like nice enough to join us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/97">TS</a>]
00:01:39 ◼ ► on the show and so this is going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/99">TS</a>]
00:01:42 ◼ ► three people interviewing one person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/102">TS</a>]
00:01:43 ◼ ► which is to say the least a bit peculiar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/103">TS</a>]
00:01:46 ◼ ► and it's something that we've never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/106">TS</a>]
00:01:47 ◼ ► really done before so this could be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/107">TS</a>]
00:01:50 ◼ ► little bit of a rough ride but we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/110">TS</a>]
00:01:52 ◼ ► gonna try to make our best of it and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/112">TS</a>]
00:01:56 ◼ ► thank you so much Chris for coming on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/116">TS</a>]
00:01:57 ◼ ► the show and we definitely appreciate it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/117">TS</a>]
00:01:59 ◼ ► to kind of kick all this off would you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/119">TS</a>]
00:02:01 ◼ ► mind giving us like a nickel tour of who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/121">TS</a>]
00:02:03 ◼ ► is crystalline okay well I can try [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/123">TS</a>]
00:02:10 ◼ ► of coding i have for a long time I am [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/130">TS</a>]
00:02:13 ◼ ► most widely known for starting lbm and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/133">TS</a>]
00:02:16 ◼ ► getting it off the ground and handing it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/136">TS</a>]
00:02:18 ◼ ► off to other smarter people i started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/138">TS</a>]
00:02:20 ◼ ► playing which is the C C++ objective c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/140">TS</a>]
00:02:23 ◼ ► compiler and likewise got to the point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/143">TS</a>]
00:02:25 ◼ ► where it was thriving and then let other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/145">TS</a>]
00:02:28 ◼ ► smarter people run it and then started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/148">TS</a>]
00:02:33 ◼ ► recently got past three dough and it has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/153">TS</a>]
00:02:36 ◼ ► an amazing community and has a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/156">TS</a>]
00:02:38 ◼ ► team of people running it and now I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/158">TS</a>]
00:02:40 ◼ ► ready to jump to the next thing and so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/160">TS</a>]
00:02:43 ◼ ► guess the short version of what i'd like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/163">TS</a>]
00:02:45 ◼ ► to do is tackle really hard problems and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/165">TS</a>]
00:02:48 ◼ ► do things that most people think you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/168">TS</a>]
00:02:51 ◼ ► so we're gonna go back in time a little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/171">TS</a>]
00:02:53 ◼ ► bit and i hope that you could tell us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/173">TS</a>]
00:02:57 ◼ ► how you ended up coming to apple like if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/177">TS</a>]
00:02:59 ◼ ► you can remember back that far like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/179">TS</a>]
00:03:02 ◼ ► lvm you started before you or an apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/182">TS</a>]
00:03:04 ◼ ► right so how did you end up an apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/184">TS</a>]
00:03:06 ◼ ► yeah isn't it a great question so i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/186">TS</a>]
00:03:07 ◼ ► started working out via aim at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/187">TS</a>]
00:03:09 ◼ ► University of Illinois it was a research [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/189">TS</a>]
00:03:12 ◼ ► project and the it really was kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/192">TS</a>]
00:03:19 ◼ ► general and production quality and all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/199">TS</a>]
00:03:21 ◼ ► those great things that you want as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/201">TS</a>]
00:03:24 ◼ ► graduate student for people to use your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/204">TS</a>]
00:03:25 ◼ ► code but it also wasn't it was had a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/205">TS</a>]
00:03:30 ◼ ► of the great architectural ideas maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/210">TS</a>]
00:03:32 ◼ ► but it wasn't fully baked it wasn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/212">TS</a>]
00:03:34 ◼ ► wouldn't solve all the world's problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/214">TS</a>]
00:03:41 ◼ ► the question was what do I do next and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/221">TS</a>]
00:03:43 ◼ ► of course my dream was to continue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/223">TS</a>]
00:03:44 ◼ ► pushing forward and build it out to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/224">TS</a>]
00:03:47 ◼ ► something real and to do that i would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/227">TS</a>]
00:03:49 ◼ ► have to go to a place that would allow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/229">TS</a>]
00:03:52 ◼ ► fortunate to build relationships with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/232">TS</a>]
00:03:54 ◼ ► folks at Apple they took a chance on me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/234">TS</a>]
00:03:56 ◼ ► and I jumped apple and started building [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/236">TS</a>]
00:03:59 ◼ ► out of them is my job was it was totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/239">TS</a>]
00:04:02 ◼ ► a dream of mine so that's how you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/242">TS</a>]
00:04:05 ◼ ► did you get your degree and then go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/245">TS</a>]
00:04:09 ◼ ► otherwise how do you ever get a job yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/249">TS</a>]
00:04:11 ◼ ► you can get a job that degree we all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/251">TS</a>]
00:04:15 ◼ ► how would you explain lvm to somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/255">TS</a>]
00:04:17 ◼ ► who doesn't know stuff about compilers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/257">TS</a>]
00:04:19 ◼ ► because like we all just rattle off the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/259">TS</a>]
00:04:23 ◼ ► whatever like but how would you explain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/263">TS</a>]
00:04:25 ◼ ► that to someone bizarre other listeners [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/265">TS</a>]
00:04:27 ◼ ► of programmers who isn't into may be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/267">TS</a>]
00:04:30 ◼ ► sure so I mean first we start with what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/270">TS</a>]
00:04:32 ◼ ► does the compiler a compiler is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/272">TS</a>]
00:04:35 ◼ ► thing that takes the code the programmer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/275">TS</a>]
00:04:37 ◼ ► writes and turns it into something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/277">TS</a>]
00:04:39 ◼ ► machine can understand and so there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/279">TS</a>]
00:04:41 ◼ ► lots of different kinds of computers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/281">TS</a>]
00:04:44 ◼ ► processors most programmers don't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/284">TS</a>]
00:04:47 ◼ ► to think about that or know about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/287">TS</a>]
00:04:49 ◼ ► and they wanted program and think in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/289">TS</a>]
00:04:51 ◼ ► much higher level than what the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/291">TS</a>]
00:04:53 ◼ ► actual processor can do and so the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/293">TS</a>]
00:04:55 ◼ ► compiler job is to transform what what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/295">TS</a>]
00:04:58 ◼ ► the human wrote and to something the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/298">TS</a>]
00:05:00 ◼ ► machine can understand then lvm is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/300">TS</a>]
00:05:04 ◼ ► modular system for building different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/304">TS</a>]
00:05:06 ◼ ► kinds of compilers because there's lots [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/306">TS</a>]
00:05:08 ◼ ► of different reasons why people would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/308">TS</a>]
00:05:10 ◼ ► want to use compiler technology and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/310">TS</a>]
00:05:12 ◼ ► think album was most successful over the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/312">TS</a>]
00:05:14 ◼ ► years because was built as reusable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/314">TS</a>]
00:05:16 ◼ ► components kind of like a framework and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/316">TS</a>]
00:05:20 ◼ ► then the framework can be used to solve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/320">TS</a>]
00:05:22 ◼ ► lots of different problems and one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/322">TS</a>]
00:05:24 ◼ ► the fun things about lvm is that it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/324">TS</a>]
00:05:26 ◼ ► eventually over the years used to solve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/326">TS</a>]
00:05:28 ◼ ► problems that we had never even imagined [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/328">TS</a>]
00:05:31 ◼ ► so one example of that the type of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/331">TS</a>]
00:05:33 ◼ ► problem is a remember from passwd sees [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/333">TS</a>]
00:05:36 ◼ ► the idea that the xcode ID the GUI that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/336">TS</a>]
00:05:40 ◼ ► you programs used to to make their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/340">TS</a>]
00:05:41 ◼ ► applications that very often in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/341">TS</a>]
00:05:44 ◼ ► gooey you need to do things that have an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/344">TS</a>]
00:05:46 ◼ ► understanding of the code but when the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/346">TS</a>]
00:05:48 ◼ ► compiler is big monolithic thing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/348">TS</a>]
00:05:50 ◼ ► best you can kind of do is compile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/350">TS</a>]
00:05:52 ◼ ► everything in the background and spit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/352">TS</a>]
00:05:53 ◼ ► out some stuff but when it's a modular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/353">TS</a>]
00:05:55 ◼ ► toolkit you can take those pieces and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/355">TS</a>]
00:05:58 ◼ ► just use the part that understands like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/358">TS</a>]
00:06:01 ◼ ► integrate them was that the first use of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/361">TS</a>]
00:06:04 ◼ ► lvm is something other than like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/364">TS</a>]
00:06:08 ◼ ► know a complete like a straight-up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/368">TS</a>]
00:06:09 ◼ ► compiler that you just point your code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/369">TS</a>]
00:06:11 ◼ ► and produces output like you know in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/371">TS</a>]
00:06:14 ◼ ► applications or was there some use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/374">TS</a>]
00:06:17 ◼ ► well i think the the first use and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/377">TS</a>]
00:06:19 ◼ ► production was in the opengl stack which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/379">TS</a>]
00:06:22 ◼ ► end of shipping and a late software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/382">TS</a>]
00:06:25 ◼ ► and as well as in leopard which is 10 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/385">TS</a>]
00:06:30 ◼ ► there was using a completely invisible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/390">TS</a>]
00:06:33 ◼ ► way to translate to basically repack [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/393">TS</a>]
00:06:36 ◼ ► data and uploaded to the GPU and so when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/396">TS</a>]
00:06:40 ◼ ► when you're making opengl calls to say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/400">TS</a>]
00:06:45 ◼ ► low-level GL call is those verses need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/405">TS</a>]
00:06:49 ◼ ► to be transformed into a very specific [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/409">TS</a>]
00:06:51 ◼ ► data format the GPU can understand and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/411">TS</a>]
00:06:53 ◼ ► you have a whole bunch of different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/413">TS</a>]
00:06:54 ◼ ► kinds of calls that can be used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/414">TS</a>]
00:06:56 ◼ ► produce for tech surge in other geometry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/416">TS</a>]
00:06:58 ◼ ► data but you also have a matrix of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/418">TS</a>]
00:07:00 ◼ ► different kinds of GPUs you need to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/420">TS</a>]
00:07:02 ◼ ► support and they all have different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/422">TS</a>]
00:07:03 ◼ ► formats and different capabilities and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/423">TS</a>]
00:07:05 ◼ ► requirements and so Alabama's used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/425">TS</a>]
00:07:07 ◼ ► generate very small chunks of code to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/427">TS</a>]
00:07:09 ◼ ► that and it was part of the 64-bit bring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/429">TS</a>]
00:07:12 ◼ ► up in the leopard timeframe and so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/432">TS</a>]
00:07:16 ◼ ► invisible use of it the that used and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/436">TS</a>]
00:07:21 ◼ ► generation technologies so forgive me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/441">TS</a>]
00:07:24 ◼ ► one more lvm related things are going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/444">TS</a>]
00:07:26 ◼ ► go from what is the compiler all I down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/446">TS</a>]
00:07:27 ◼ ► to the nitty-gritty stuff here my vague [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/447">TS</a>]
00:07:30 ◼ ► recollection of what you just described [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/450">TS</a>]
00:07:31 ◼ ► the whole video driver thing was that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/451">TS</a>]
00:07:33 ◼ ► there were files on disk in the shipping [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/453">TS</a>]
00:07:36 ◼ ► us that were basically lvm bytecode like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/456">TS</a>]
00:07:39 ◼ ► these little bc files and they would get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/459">TS</a>]
00:07:42 ◼ ► slurped up and converted to machine code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/462">TS</a>]
00:07:45 ◼ ► appropriate for the GPU and spaz is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/465">TS</a>]
00:07:49 ◼ ► absolutely right and so it basically the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/469">TS</a>]
00:07:51 ◼ ► we look at is the the code files the lvm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/471">TS</a>]
00:07:57 ◼ ► snippets of code that then at runtime or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/477">TS</a>]
00:08:00 ◼ ► recombined and optimized across and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/480">TS</a>]
00:08:04 ◼ ► primitives that the opengl runtime used [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/484">TS</a>]
00:08:07 ◼ ► to assemble what it was trying to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/487">TS</a>]
00:08:09 ◼ ► alright so my question about this and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/489">TS</a>]
00:08:11 ◼ ► maybe you kind of alluded to with either [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/491">TS</a>]
00:08:14 ◼ ► understanding is what is the difference [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/494">TS</a>]
00:08:16 ◼ ► between llvm bytecode and what Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/496">TS</a>]
00:08:26 ◼ ► historical cuz I'm confused by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/506">TS</a>]
00:08:28 ◼ ► branding and I'm also confused by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/508">TS</a>]
00:08:29 ◼ ► tech so lvm prior to lv m2 dot oh and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/509">TS</a>]
00:08:35 ◼ ► these version numbers of the open-source [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/515">TS</a>]
00:08:36 ◼ ► version numbers not related to the apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/516">TS</a>]
00:08:38 ◼ ► numbers and their confusingly different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/518">TS</a>]
00:08:40 ◼ ► for not very interesting reasons but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/520">TS</a>]
00:08:43 ◼ ► before to do used a really horrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/523">TS</a>]
00:08:46 ◼ ► encoding in binary the was branded [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/526">TS</a>]
00:08:50 ◼ ► bytecode because that's what java use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/530">TS</a>]
00:08:52 ◼ ► had a whole bunch of problems and there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/532">TS</a>]
00:08:54 ◼ ► was an extensible it was fragile with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/534">TS</a>]
00:08:57 ◼ ► the ilbm was changing and didn't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/537">TS</a>]
00:09:00 ◼ ► compatibility and so in the lvm to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/540">TS</a>]
00:09:04 ◼ ► timeframe which josh is probably don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/544">TS</a>]
00:09:08 ◼ ► know ten ten years ago or more it's been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/548">TS</a>]
00:09:10 ◼ ► a long time ago now I redesign the whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/550">TS</a>]
00:09:15 ◼ ► thing and it now uses this quote-unquote [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/555">TS</a>]
00:09:17 ◼ ► bit code format and use bit code as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/557">TS</a>]
00:09:20 ◼ ► term for two reasons one of which was it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/560">TS</a>]
00:09:22 ◼ ► was different than bytecode and so the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/562">TS</a>]
00:09:25 ◼ ► directory tree for a while and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/565">TS</a>]
00:09:27 ◼ ► second reason is that the encoding is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/567">TS</a>]
00:09:29 ◼ ► bitstream format instead of a byte [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/569">TS</a>]
00:09:30 ◼ ► stream but that that's the origin of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/570">TS</a>]
00:09:34 ◼ ► term bit code you can find documentation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/574">TS</a>]
00:09:36 ◼ ► in this file format is actually a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/576">TS</a>]
00:09:38 ◼ ► general encoding format that you can use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/578">TS</a>]
00:09:43 ◼ ► self-describing file format and multiple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/583">TS</a>]
00:09:46 ◼ ► different things can be encoded in a bit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/586">TS</a>]
00:09:48 ◼ ► code that was definitely some confusion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/588">TS</a>]
00:09:50 ◼ ► about that because when Apple presented [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/590">TS</a>]
00:09:51 ◼ ► it when they presented it as like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/591">TS</a>]
00:09:53 ◼ ► required was like the watch apps have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/593">TS</a>]
00:09:54 ◼ ► be a bit code Marco you would know this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/594">TS</a>]
00:09:56 ◼ ► watch's required iOS is still optional [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/596">TS</a>]
00:09:59 ◼ ► and TV is required and they would have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/599">TS</a>]
00:10:02 ◼ ► you send you put your stuff in bit code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/602">TS</a>]
00:10:04 ◼ ► and there's a lot of speculation early [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/604">TS</a>]
00:10:06 ◼ ► on about what that meant like in terms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/606">TS</a>]
00:10:09 ◼ ► of does that mean that what you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/609">TS</a>]
00:10:12 ◼ ► uploading is not a finished binary and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/612">TS</a>]
00:10:15 ◼ ► agnostic and could be targeted any CPU [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/615">TS</a>]
00:10:17 ◼ ► and the more prosaic version like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/617">TS</a>]
00:10:21 ◼ ► doesn't mean its CPU agnostic all it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/621">TS</a>]
00:10:23 ◼ ► means is that Apple has slightly more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/623">TS</a>]
00:10:25 ◼ ► freedom to like change instructions on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/625">TS</a>]
00:10:30 ◼ ► how would you characterize the what what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/630">TS</a>]
00:10:32 ◼ ► what advantages are there of compiling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/632">TS</a>]
00:10:36 ◼ ► something to bit code and then uploading [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/636">TS</a>]
00:10:38 ◼ ► it somewhere vs sending someone a binary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/638">TS</a>]
00:10:40 ◼ ► sure there's a good there's a couple of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/640">TS</a>]
00:10:41 ◼ ► different advantages for that one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/641">TS</a>]
00:10:43 ◼ ► which is that the compiler keeps getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/643">TS</a>]
00:10:46 ◼ ► better and so the compiler learns a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/646">TS</a>]
00:10:49 ◼ ► can be applied to existing applications [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/649">TS</a>]
00:10:51 ◼ ► without application developers and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/651">TS</a>]
00:10:52 ◼ ► reupload their their app that's one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/652">TS</a>]
00:10:55 ◼ ► small thing other things is our the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/655">TS</a>]
00:10:59 ◼ ► instructions to its at cps one example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/659">TS</a>]
00:11:06 ◼ ► hilariously named swift check that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/666">TS</a>]
00:11:08 ◼ ► launched which was the first designed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/668">TS</a>]
00:11:11 ◼ ► in-house 32-bit ARM chip this was the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/671">TS</a>]
00:11:17 ◼ ► so in this chip they added an integer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/677">TS</a>]
00:11:20 ◼ ► divided instruction and all the chips [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/680">TS</a>]
00:11:22 ◼ ► before that didn't have the ability to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/682">TS</a>]
00:11:24 ◼ ► do an integer divided in hardware you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/684">TS</a>]
00:11:26 ◼ ► had to actually open code it and there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/686">TS</a>]
00:11:28 ◼ ► a library function to do that and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/688">TS</a>]
00:11:30 ◼ ► that and the other instructions they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/690">TS</a>]
00:11:32 ◼ ► added were a pretty big deal and use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/692">TS</a>]
00:11:35 ◼ ► pervasively and the only way to tackle [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/695">TS</a>]
00:11:37 ◼ ► then in and handle that and use it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/697">TS</a>]
00:11:39 ◼ ► effectively was to introduce an entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/699">TS</a>]
00:11:43 ◼ ► developer back then you had the v7 slice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/703">TS</a>]
00:11:45 ◼ ► which was all the older ships and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/705">TS</a>]
00:11:48 ◼ ► you have to be 7s slice as for swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/708">TS</a>]
00:11:50 ◼ ► which was the slice that included the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/710">TS</a>]
00:11:55 ◼ ► injured but now this is a pain for app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/715">TS</a>]
00:11:57 ◼ ► developers is paying for Apple everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/717">TS</a>]
00:12:01 ◼ ► developers to take it seriously and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/721">TS</a>]
00:12:03 ◼ ► it doesn't if app developers don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/723">TS</a>]
00:12:04 ◼ ► support it then the new hardware doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/724">TS</a>]
00:12:05 ◼ ► benefit from it and so--but code allows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/725">TS</a>]
00:12:08 ◼ ► that kind of thing to go completely away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/728">TS</a>]
00:12:11 ◼ ► apple just recompile the applications in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/731">TS</a>]
00:12:13 ◼ ► the store and say haha this this device [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/733">TS</a>]
00:12:16 ◼ ► has an integer divided instruction and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/736">TS</a>]
00:12:18 ◼ ► it can it works perfectly with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/738">TS</a>]
00:12:20 ◼ ► thinning kind of architecture they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/740">TS</a>]
00:12:21 ◼ ► for deploying resources to specific [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/741">TS</a>]
00:12:24 ◼ ► device types and all kind of looks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/744">TS</a>]
00:12:30 ◼ ► solution though it doesn't you can take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/750">TS</a>]
00:12:32 ◼ ► a 32-bit app for example and run on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/752">TS</a>]
00:12:37 ◼ ► portability isn't something that can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/757">TS</a>]
00:12:39 ◼ ► notably because that is something that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/759">TS</a>]
00:12:41 ◼ ► visible and see and so as you're writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/761">TS</a>]
00:12:44 ◼ ► C code you can write if death you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/764">TS</a>]
00:12:47 ◼ ► pointers equals 32 and that's something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/767">TS</a>]
00:12:49 ◼ ► that big coke and abstract / and so it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/769">TS</a>]
00:12:53 ◼ ► useful for very specific low-level kinds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/773">TS</a>]
00:12:59 ◼ ► everything magically portable at the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/779">TS</a>]
00:13:02 ◼ ► same thing i would assume for like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/782">TS</a>]
00:13:03 ◼ ► architecture changes especially there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/783">TS</a>]
00:13:04 ◼ ► was an Indian difference because Indian [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/784">TS</a>]
00:13:05 ◼ ► this is visible from the sea world so if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/785">TS</a>]
00:13:07 ◼ ► you can't you can't target different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/787">TS</a>]
00:13:11 ◼ ► magically Saul portability problems but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/791">TS</a>]
00:13:15 ◼ ► problems that Apple's face in the past [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/795">TS</a>]
00:13:16 ◼ ► and then going back to the this life [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/796">TS</a>]
00:13:19 ◼ ► thing that's like terminology like I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/799">TS</a>]
00:13:20 ◼ ► tamaco format where you get to put [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/800">TS</a>]
00:13:25 ◼ ► yeah it is i think this technology that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/805">TS</a>]
00:13:26 ◼ ► goes all the way back to next when next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/806">TS</a>]
00:13:29 ◼ ► supported really heterogeneous different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/809">TS</a>]
00:13:31 ◼ ► architectures like pa-risc and and spark [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/811">TS</a>]
00:13:33 ◼ ► and RBC and Intel all back and in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/813">TS</a>]
00:13:37 ◼ ► next days and it allows you to compile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/817">TS</a>]
00:13:40 ◼ ► your application with multiple slices [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/820">TS</a>]
00:13:42 ◼ ► they call them and then there's a tool [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/822">TS</a>]
00:13:44 ◼ ► called lipo which sticks them together [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/824">TS</a>]
00:13:46 ◼ ► and at runtime the OS pics the slice the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/826">TS</a>]
00:13:51 ◼ ► best matches your cpu and practice and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/831">TS</a>]
00:13:53 ◼ ► so an app developer can support many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/833">TS</a>]
00:13:55 ◼ ► different kinds of architectures and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/835">TS</a>]
00:13:57 ◼ ► then the OS just does the right thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/837">TS</a>]
00:13:59 ◼ ► and so in today's world it's very common [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/839">TS</a>]
00:14:01 ◼ ► to build an iOS app for example the for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/841">TS</a>]
00:14:05 ◼ ► both arms 64 and arm 32 and the way that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/845">TS</a>]
00:14:07 ◼ ► works in the native in the simplest [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/847">TS</a>]
00:14:10 ◼ ► cases it's just too different binary is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/850">TS</a>]
00:14:13 ◼ ► that are stuck together and then the OS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/853">TS</a>]
00:14:15 ◼ ► X the right one to run all right i could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/855">TS</a>]
00:14:18 ◼ ► go on for this river but I want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/858">TS</a>]
00:14:20 ◼ ► that's right all it's just uh is this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/860">TS</a>]
00:14:21 ◼ ► some pent-up relations about Bitcoin [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/861">TS</a>]
00:14:24 ◼ ► biko but now I feel satisfied we can go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/864">TS</a>]
00:14:26 ◼ ► on to broader topics we sponsor tonight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/866">TS</a>]
00:14:30 ◼ ► by Squarespace squarespace.com use code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/870">TS</a>]
00:14:34 ◼ ► ATP to get ten percent off your first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/874">TS</a>]
00:14:36 ◼ ► it's the new year you might have a new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/876">TS</a>]
00:14:38 ◼ ► project you might have a new goal you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/878">TS</a>]
00:14:40 ◼ ► want to reach and that might involve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/880">TS</a>]
00:14:41 ◼ ► making a website make your next move [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/881">TS</a>]
00:14:46 ◼ ► Squarespace Squarespace sites are so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/886">TS</a>]
00:14:49 ◼ ► incredibly easy to make and they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/889">TS</a>]
00:14:50 ◼ ► incredibly beautiful and the tools are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/890">TS</a>]
00:14:54 ◼ ► this is a great combination that i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/894">TS</a>]
00:14:55 ◼ ► personally have never seen before in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/895">TS</a>]
00:14:58 ◼ ► web building space until Squarespace the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/898">TS</a>]
00:15:00 ◼ ► amount of power you get with these tools [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/900">TS</a>]
00:15:02 ◼ ► is just incredible you can make so many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/902">TS</a>]
00:15:04 ◼ ► different kinds of sites with so little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/904">TS</a>]
00:15:07 ◼ ► nothing else comes close your site's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/907">TS</a>]
00:15:11 ◼ ► regardless of your skill level with no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/911">TS</a>]
00:15:13 ◼ ► coding required although if you want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/913">TS</a>]
00:15:15 ◼ ► jump in and help some of the code you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/915">TS</a>]
00:15:16 ◼ ► actually can but you don't have to and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/916">TS</a>]
00:15:18 ◼ ► it probably isn't a good use of your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/918">TS</a>]
00:15:19 ◼ ► time because Squarespace is such a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/919">TS</a>]
00:15:22 ◼ ► platform right out-of-the-box whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/922">TS</a>]
00:15:25 ◼ ► you're making website for you or for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/925">TS</a>]
00:15:26 ◼ ► somebody else if you make of somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/926">TS</a>]
00:15:29 ◼ ► Squarespace is the place you want to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/929">TS</a>]
00:15:30 ◼ ► that because you shouldn't have to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/930">TS</a>]
00:15:35 ◼ ► squares page will support if they need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/935">TS</a>]
00:15:37 ◼ ► help and able to figure things out on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/937">TS</a>]
00:15:39 ◼ ► their own because it's just so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/939">TS</a>]
00:15:40 ◼ ► easier to use than whatever CMS you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/940">TS</a>]
00:15:42 ◼ ► going to install on their server so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/942">TS</a>]
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00:15:48 ◼ ► first purchase when you decide to sign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/948">TS</a>]
00:15:50 ◼ ► up whether you're making a site for you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/950">TS</a>]
00:15:52 ◼ ► or somebody else make your next move [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/952">TS</a>]
00:15:54 ◼ ► with squarespace ah so Chris how's your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/954">TS</a>]
00:16:03 ◼ ► manager because from an outsider's point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/963">TS</a>]
00:16:04 ◼ ► of view it looked like you know you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/964">TS</a>]
00:16:07 ◼ ► heavily on llvm like you said earlier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/967">TS</a>]
00:16:09 ◼ ► but over time I mean even just looking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/969">TS</a>]
00:16:11 ◼ ► at the resume on your website it seems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/971">TS</a>]
00:16:13 ◼ ► pretty clear that you are doing a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/973">TS</a>]
00:16:15 ◼ ► more managing lately then perhaps coding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/975">TS</a>]
00:16:18 ◼ ► or maybe maybe just worked around the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/978">TS</a>]
00:16:20 ◼ ► clock that would surprise me either but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/980">TS</a>]
00:16:21 ◼ ► it how how would you how did you feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/981">TS</a>]
00:16:24 ◼ ► about your transition from from being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/984">TS</a>]
00:16:26 ◼ ► just a code monkey to being a manager [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/986">TS</a>]
00:16:28 ◼ ► and I asked in part because at my face [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/988">TS</a>]
00:16:31 ◼ ► my career I am still a code monkey but i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/991">TS</a>]
00:16:32 ◼ ► think it's not too far away that I might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/992">TS</a>]
00:16:34 ◼ ► become a manager and so I'm curious to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/994">TS</a>]
00:16:37 ◼ ► hear you know from from one code monkey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/997">TS</a>]
00:16:39 ◼ ► to another how did that transition go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/999">TS</a>]
00:16:43 ◼ ► yeah that's that's kind of interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1003">TS</a>]
00:16:44 ◼ ► so I don't think it is a hard transition [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1004">TS</a>]
00:16:47 ◼ ► I'm still writing code i still love [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1007">TS</a>]
00:16:49 ◼ ► writing code that's something that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1009">TS</a>]
00:16:51 ◼ ► think is a key part of my identity and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1011">TS</a>]
00:16:54 ◼ ► but on the other hand is it is very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1014">TS</a>]
00:16:58 ◼ ► strange so I started managing people at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1018">TS</a>]
00:17:00 ◼ ► Apple really pretty early on maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1020">TS</a>]
00:17:03 ◼ ► you're so after i joined i started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1023">TS</a>]
00:17:06 ◼ ► managing two or three people because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1026">TS</a>]
00:17:09 ◼ ► kind of the best person to to manage the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1029">TS</a>]
00:17:12 ◼ ► nascent lvm effort at the time and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1032">TS</a>]
00:17:16 ◼ ► initially it was mostly just being a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1036">TS</a>]
00:17:20 ◼ ► so if you're if you've ever driven a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1040">TS</a>]
00:17:22 ◼ ► project where you have co-workers that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1042">TS</a>]
00:17:25 ◼ ► don't report to you that your kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1045">TS</a>]
00:17:27 ◼ ► guiding them and helping make technical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1047">TS</a>]
00:17:29 ◼ ► decisions that's that's where started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1049">TS</a>]
00:17:31 ◼ ► over over time I my team grew and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1051">TS</a>]
00:17:35 ◼ ► eventually ended up picking up and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1055">TS</a>]
00:17:37 ◼ ► running kind of a second level manager [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1057">TS</a>]
00:17:41 ◼ ► managers and each step along the way it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1061">TS</a>]
00:17:43 ◼ ► introduces new challenges and along the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1063">TS</a>]
00:17:49 ◼ ► something that I had to do because that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1069">TS</a>]
00:17:52 ◼ ► was the best qualified to do it and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1072">TS</a>]
00:17:54 ◼ ► didn't want anybody else to and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1074">TS</a>]
00:17:57 ◼ ► coding was my real joy and passion and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1077">TS</a>]
00:17:59 ◼ ► think the coding really is my joy and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1079">TS</a>]
00:18:04 ◼ ► actually pretty good at managing and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1084">TS</a>]
00:18:07 ◼ ► really do like building teams i like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1087">TS</a>]
00:18:10 ◼ ► working with people and I've never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1090">TS</a>]
00:18:11 ◼ ► considered myself to be a people person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1091">TS</a>]
00:18:13 ◼ ► just how it's just very very odd for me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1093">TS</a>]
00:18:16 ◼ ► to even think about that but actually do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1096">TS</a>]
00:18:19 ◼ ► understand how people work and can you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1099">TS</a>]
00:18:22 ◼ ► know really care about getting the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1102">TS</a>]
00:18:24 ◼ ► out of people and working with them to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1104">TS</a>]
00:18:26 ◼ ► make them successful and so it's been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1106">TS</a>]
00:18:29 ◼ ► kind of a transition over time but I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1109">TS</a>]
00:18:32 ◼ ► always hung onto coding and even though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1112">TS</a>]
00:18:34 ◼ ► i have a full time management job I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1114">TS</a>]
00:18:36 ◼ ► could like crazy and nights and weekends [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1116">TS</a>]
00:18:38 ◼ ► and I'm not the kind of guy that likes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1118">TS</a>]
00:18:40 ◼ ► around idle and eaten and so I've always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1120">TS</a>]
00:18:43 ◼ ► just been busy so I mean you can get as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1123">TS</a>]
00:18:46 ◼ ► much of this history as you want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1126">TS</a>]
00:18:47 ◼ ► Chris but how did you get Swift to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1127">TS</a>]
00:18:50 ◼ ► happen inside Apple because from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1130">TS</a>]
00:18:53 ◼ ► outside its mysterious to us how big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1133">TS</a>]
00:18:57 ◼ ► important projects come to be like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1137">TS</a>]
00:19:00 ◼ ► know whatever you name the headlining [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1140">TS</a>]
00:19:02 ◼ ► things that are common Apple we hear [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1142">TS</a>]
00:19:04 ◼ ► that Apple does a lot of things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1144">TS</a>]
00:19:07 ◼ ► how did you get probably one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1147">TS</a>]
00:19:09 ◼ ► biggest things ever to come out of Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1149">TS</a>]
00:19:13 ◼ ► in-house had to get that to happen and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1153">TS</a>]
00:19:14 ◼ ► not just be some little thing that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1154">TS</a>]
00:19:16 ◼ ► off to the side that fizzled often [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1156">TS</a>]
00:19:18 ◼ ► sure well so i can tell you about Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1158">TS</a>]
00:19:21 ◼ ► but i don't think you should project [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1161">TS</a>]
00:19:23 ◼ ► this onto every other project and apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1163">TS</a>]
00:19:24 ◼ ► because i'm sure there are different so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1164">TS</a>]
00:19:26 ◼ ► you just talk about my experiences so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1166">TS</a>]
00:19:31 ◼ ► you know it's kind of the timing is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1171">TS</a>]
00:19:35 ◼ ► suspicious because right after a blogger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1175">TS</a>]
00:19:37 ◼ ► wrote something about how Apple need a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1177">TS</a>]
00:19:40 ◼ ► new programming language haha i'm not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1180">TS</a>]
00:19:44 ◼ ► arstechnica wasn't a thing about blog [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1184">TS</a>]
00:19:48 ◼ ► that was a prestigious website still is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1188">TS</a>]
00:19:54 ◼ ► so I don't remember fight after i read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1194">TS</a>]
00:19:58 ◼ ► it exactly then that's that was a causal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1198">TS</a>]
00:20:00 ◼ ► link to starting working on swift or if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1200">TS</a>]
00:20:02 ◼ ► it was just because I just finish up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1202">TS</a>]
00:20:05 ◼ ► cleaning c++ support and we launched [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1205">TS</a>]
00:20:07 ◼ ► client c++ and of course if you write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1207">TS</a>]
00:20:10 ◼ ► C++ good you know how ugly and horrible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1210">TS</a>]
00:20:12 ◼ ► it is but if you implement c++ it's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1212">TS</a>]
00:20:15 ◼ ► whole nother level of the of challenges [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1215">TS</a>]
00:20:17 ◼ ► and so getting that first release out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1217">TS</a>]
00:20:20 ◼ ► was it was a major accomplishment for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1220">TS</a>]
00:20:22 ◼ ► for the entire team and it was a major [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1222">TS</a>]
00:20:26 ◼ ► involved and as is typical you get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1226">TS</a>]
00:20:29 ◼ ► something over the finish line and of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1229">TS</a>]
00:20:31 ◼ ► course it wasn't fully finished long [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1231">TS</a>]
00:20:33 ◼ ► intellectually interesting to me at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1233">TS</a>]
00:20:38 ◼ ► that's why I started thinking about okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1238">TS</a>]
00:20:41 ◼ ► right and then implementing other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1241">TS</a>]
00:20:43 ◼ ► people's stuff like for example the see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1243">TS</a>]
00:20:46 ◼ ► the c++ the objective-c standards and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1246">TS</a>]
00:20:49 ◼ ► languages but there were there were you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1249">TS</a>]
00:20:53 ◼ ► know things that we weren't happy with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1253">TS</a>]
00:20:54 ◼ ► and things I wasn't happy with and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1254">TS</a>]
00:20:56 ◼ ► what started out as just a let's let's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1256">TS</a>]
00:20:59 ◼ ► see what could be done right let's see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1259">TS</a>]
00:21:01 ◼ ► what a much simpler language that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1261">TS</a>]
00:21:03 ◼ ► doesn't need a preprocessor doesn't hate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1263">TS</a>]
00:21:05 ◼ ► try graphs doesn't need all the weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1265">TS</a>]
00:21:08 ◼ ► things that have accumulated into c and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1268">TS</a>]
00:21:10 ◼ ► c++ over the years but let's see what we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1270">TS</a>]
00:21:13 ◼ ► can do and just try to build something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1273">TS</a>]
00:21:16 ◼ ► initially it was really just a me me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1276">TS</a>]
00:21:20 ◼ ► messing around and nobody knew about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1280">TS</a>]
00:21:23 ◼ ► because it wasn't anything to know about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1283">TS</a>]
00:21:25 ◼ ► but eventually got a little bit more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1285">TS</a>]
00:21:28 ◼ ► serious and said hey well after playing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1288">TS</a>]
00:21:30 ◼ ► around a little bit i think that this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1290">TS</a>]
00:21:32 ◼ ► actually could make sense and so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1292">TS</a>]
00:21:36 ◼ ► I'm start talking again engineers are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1296">TS</a>]
00:21:39 ◼ ► working on playing and they seemed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1299">TS</a>]
00:21:41 ◼ ► excited about it we got a couple people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1301">TS</a>]
00:21:43 ◼ ► working on it part time and I can ask my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1303">TS</a>]
00:21:46 ◼ ► manager that it was interesting enough [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1306">TS</a>]
00:21:47 ◼ ► that we could have a couple of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1307">TS</a>]
00:21:50 ◼ ► work on it now this wasn't a major [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1310">TS</a>]
00:21:53 ◼ ► commitment this was a ok well let's see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1313">TS</a>]
00:21:56 ◼ ► see what there is here and that started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1316">TS</a>]
00:21:59 ◼ ► a an internal demo schedule and other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1319">TS</a>]
00:22:02 ◼ ► things we set milestones in place and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1322">TS</a>]
00:22:04 ◼ ► tried to to to justify the investment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1324">TS</a>]
00:22:06 ◼ ► that was being put into it eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1326">TS</a>]
00:22:09 ◼ ► got to the point where there was an in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1329">TS</a>]
00:22:12 ◼ ► it was part of a long that it was posing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1332">TS</a>]
00:22:14 ◼ ► strategic questions so the strategic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1334">TS</a>]
00:22:18 ◼ ► ok what we have objective-c objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1338">TS</a>]
00:22:21 ◼ ► is a great language it is probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1341">TS</a>]
00:22:24 ◼ ► directly responsible for the iphone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1344">TS</a>]
00:22:27 ◼ ► being successful because it's really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1347">TS</a>]
00:22:31 ◼ ► high performance allows you to get your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1351">TS</a>]
00:22:35 ◼ ► frameworks and beautiful way there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1355">TS</a>]
00:22:37 ◼ ► ton of stuff to love about objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1357">TS</a>]
00:22:39 ◼ ► and while there are few things that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1359">TS</a>]
00:22:42 ◼ ► semicolons and other stuff like that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1362">TS</a>]
00:22:44 ◼ ► know we can make objectively better and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1364">TS</a>]
00:22:46 ◼ ► so the question was always why not just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1366">TS</a>]
00:22:49 ◼ ► make objectively better right why don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1369">TS</a>]
00:22:51 ◼ ► we just keep evolving objective-c and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1371">TS</a>]
00:22:55 ◼ ► disruption in terms of moving the entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1375">TS</a>]
00:22:57 ◼ ► development community to something new [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1377">TS</a>]
00:23:00 ◼ ► and we kick that around for a long time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1380">TS</a>]
00:23:02 ◼ ► we talked about both sides and we came [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1382">TS</a>]
00:23:05 ◼ ► to realize that yes we can and should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1385">TS</a>]
00:23:06 ◼ ► make objective-c better and we continue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1386">TS</a>]
00:23:09 ◼ ► to invest in objective-c we did things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1389">TS</a>]
00:23:11 ◼ ► like our for example which is a major [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1391">TS</a>]
00:23:17 ◼ ► well so dot syntax / dated this ah yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1397">TS</a>]
00:23:20 ◼ ► dot dot syntax so the objective c 2 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1400">TS</a>]
00:23:23 ◼ ► features and the block syntax were all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1403">TS</a>]
00:23:25 ◼ ► kind of prior to this i worked on blocks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1405">TS</a>]
00:23:28 ◼ ► but it wasn't in this time for him and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1408">TS</a>]
00:23:32 ◼ ► so we were talking about okay well can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1412">TS</a>]
00:23:34 ◼ ► we just make objectively better and can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1414">TS</a>]
00:23:35 ◼ ► feature creep into the language that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1415">TS</a>]
00:23:37 ◼ ► want for the fullness of time because we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1417">TS</a>]
00:23:39 ◼ ► can that be much less disruptive to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1419">TS</a>]
00:23:41 ◼ ► community and we decided that yeah we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1421">TS</a>]
00:23:43 ◼ ► can we can move objective-c a lot closer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1423">TS</a>]
00:23:45 ◼ ► to what we want so we can get automatic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1425">TS</a>]
00:23:47 ◼ ► memory management with art for example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1427">TS</a>]
00:23:49 ◼ ► but we can't ever take away the problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1429">TS</a>]
00:23:52 ◼ ► that lead to objective-c being unsafe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1432">TS</a>]
00:23:57 ◼ ► objectives he was built on top of C and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1437">TS</a>]
00:24:02 ◼ ► initialize variables that has array of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1442">TS</a>]
00:24:05 ◼ ► overflow that has all these problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1445">TS</a>]
00:24:06 ◼ ► that even if you have full control of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1446">TS</a>]
00:24:09 ◼ ► your compiler and tools back you just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1449">TS</a>]
00:24:11 ◼ ► can't fix right to fix to fix dangling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1451">TS</a>]
00:24:14 ◼ ► pointers you'd have to fix lifetime [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1454">TS</a>]
00:24:15 ◼ ► issues and she doesn't have a framework [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1455">TS</a>]
00:24:17 ◼ ► to to reason about that and retrofitting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1457">TS</a>]
00:24:20 ◼ ► that into a compatible way into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1460">TS</a>]
00:24:21 ◼ ► system just one really work if you took [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1461">TS</a>]
00:24:24 ◼ ► away see for objective-c you can't use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1464">TS</a>]
00:24:26 ◼ ► see arrays on the stack for example and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1466">TS</a>]
00:24:28 ◼ ► if you can do that there's entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1468">TS</a>]
00:24:31 ◼ ► classes of applications that where the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1471">TS</a>]
00:24:33 ◼ ► performance just wouldn't be acceptable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1473">TS</a>]
00:24:34 ◼ ► and so we went around around around we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1474">TS</a>]
00:24:38 ◼ ► the only way that this can make sense in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1478">TS</a>]
00:24:42 ◼ ► terms of the cost of the destruction to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1482">TS</a>]
00:24:44 ◼ ► the community is if we make it a safe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1484">TS</a>]
00:24:47 ◼ ► programming language which means not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1487">TS</a>]
00:24:49 ◼ ► safe as in you can have no bugs but safe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1489">TS</a>]
00:24:51 ◼ ► in terms of memory safety while also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1491">TS</a>]
00:24:54 ◼ ► providing high performance and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1494">TS</a>]
00:24:56 ◼ ► moving the programming model forward and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1496">TS</a>]
00:24:58 ◼ ► so that was really kind of the ideas [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1498">TS</a>]
00:25:00 ◼ ► that that came together to make swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1500">TS</a>]
00:25:03 ◼ ► being worth the investment and being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1503">TS</a>]
00:25:05 ◼ ► worth being disruptive to the community [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1505">TS</a>]
00:25:08 ◼ ► so a lot of these kinds of pitches and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1508">TS</a>]
00:25:10 ◼ ► ideas were being held and very small [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1510">TS</a>]
00:25:14 ◼ ► small small meetings and coming out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1514">TS</a>]
00:25:19 ◼ ► WBC 2013 is one we in the executive team [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1519">TS</a>]
00:25:23 ◼ ► decided okay let's let's really commit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1523">TS</a>]
00:25:25 ◼ ► to this and that's coming out of WC 2013 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1525">TS</a>]
00:25:28 ◼ ► is when the developer tools team came to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1528">TS</a>]
00:25:31 ◼ ► know about it and really started working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1531">TS</a>]
00:25:33 ◼ ► hard on it and Swift is Swift as a huge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1533">TS</a>]
00:25:36 ◼ ► huge effort by hundreds of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1536">TS</a>]
00:25:39 ◼ ► and that's when all the work on bringing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1539">TS</a>]
00:25:41 ◼ ► up the debugger in the IDE support and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1541">TS</a>]
00:25:44 ◼ ► playgrounds and all the other things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1544">TS</a>]
00:25:45 ◼ ► that the charge into swift one auto [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1545">TS</a>]
00:25:47 ◼ ► really started coming together and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1547">TS</a>]
00:25:50 ◼ ► make happen so it's kind of house which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1550">TS</a>]
00:25:53 ◼ ► came to be lose again one step after [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1553">TS</a>]
00:25:55 ◼ ► another building small things explaining [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1555">TS</a>]
00:25:58 ◼ ► to people why make sense why was worth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1558">TS</a>]
00:26:00 ◼ ► it and then also I think that a major [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1560">TS</a>]
00:26:02 ◼ ► important aspect of Swift being I guess [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1562">TS</a>]
00:26:07 ◼ ► worth taking a risk on was that we told [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1567">TS</a>]
00:26:11 ◼ ► people that we would not guarantee [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1571">TS</a>]
00:26:12 ◼ ► source compatibility in window and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1572">TS</a>]
00:26:16 ◼ ► was really interesting because that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1576">TS</a>]
00:26:19 ◼ ► actually was a big relief for people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1579">TS</a>]
00:26:20 ◼ ► because internally that meant that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1580">TS</a>]
00:26:24 ◼ ► didn't have to be perfect when it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1584">TS</a>]
00:26:26 ◼ ► launched it meant that we could learn we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1586">TS</a>]
00:26:27 ◼ ► could adapt and that as long as we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1587">TS</a>]
00:26:30 ◼ ► clear with the community about that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1590">TS</a>]
00:26:31 ◼ ► that would allow us to get to ultimate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1591">TS</a>]
00:26:34 ◼ ► greatness and learn from actual usage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1594">TS</a>]
00:26:37 ◼ ► and practice i think that was a really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1597">TS</a>]
00:26:39 ◼ ► key piece to Swift coming in actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1599">TS</a>]
00:26:42 ◼ ► making it to the market so strategically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1602">TS</a>]
00:26:45 ◼ ► speaking when you were doing like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1605">TS</a>]
00:26:48 ◼ ► work to improve objective-c did you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1608">TS</a>]
00:26:51 ◼ ► in mind the ability to potentially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1611">TS</a>]
00:26:53 ◼ ► leverage some of that work for swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1613">TS</a>]
00:26:56 ◼ ► like we're like I'm trying to like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1616">TS</a>]
00:26:58 ◼ ► strategy of how you get it done like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1618">TS</a>]
00:26:59 ◼ ► part of his personal relationships and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1619">TS</a>]
00:27:03 ◼ ► part of it is persuasion you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1623">TS</a>]
00:27:04 ◼ ► persuade them with your technical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1624">TS</a>]
00:27:05 ◼ ► arguments in your business arguments and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1625">TS</a>]
00:27:06 ◼ ► stuff like that but part of it was part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1626">TS</a>]
00:27:09 ◼ ► of it also laying the groundwork with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1629">TS</a>]
00:27:12 ◼ ► with efforts and technologies that have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1632">TS</a>]
00:27:16 ◼ ► yeah absolutely so so long for example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1636">TS</a>]
00:27:18 ◼ ► that is our it was really clear to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1638">TS</a>]
00:27:21 ◼ ► that if if we get to memory safety we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1641">TS</a>]
00:27:23 ◼ ► had to have automatic memory management [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1643">TS</a>]
00:27:24 ◼ ► and I don't know if you wanna go down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1644">TS</a>]
00:27:27 ◼ ► the GC vs arg rabbit hole or not that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1647">TS</a>]
00:27:30 ◼ ► arc seem like obviously the right models [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1650">TS</a>]
00:27:32 ◼ ► me and to enter some other people and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1652">TS</a>]
00:27:35 ◼ ► we said okay we need to get to an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1655">TS</a>]
00:27:38 ◼ ► automatic memory management model [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1658">TS</a>]
00:27:41 ◼ ► objective-c isn't because objective-c at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1661">TS</a>]
00:27:43 ◼ ► the time had the are obviously garbage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1663">TS</a>]
00:27:45 ◼ ► collector which had numerous problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1665">TS</a>]
00:27:47 ◼ ► and so we had to get objective-c to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1667">TS</a>]
00:27:51 ◼ ► memory manage and so that's why ark was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1671">TS</a>]
00:27:53 ◼ ► who became a thing it became really high [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1673">TS</a>]
00:27:56 ◼ ► priority and I think that it's a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1676">TS</a>]
00:27:59 ◼ ► example of something with by itself had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1679">TS</a>]
00:28:02 ◼ ► objective-c community and then after [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1682">TS</a>]
00:28:05 ◼ ► that we had similar other efforts like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1685">TS</a>]
00:28:07 ◼ ► modules for example that was a huge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1687">TS</a>]
00:28:09 ◼ ► thing that both improved build time but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1689">TS</a>]
00:28:14 ◼ ► enabling swift code to eventually just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1694">TS</a>]
00:28:16 ◼ ► say import UI kit and get everything and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1696">TS</a>]
00:28:19 ◼ ► so there's a number of things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1699">TS</a>]
00:28:20 ◼ ► rolled out over the years and it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1700">TS</a>]
00:28:22 ◼ ► really funny at the time because the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1702">TS</a>]
00:28:24 ◼ ► objective developers externally and even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1704">TS</a>]
00:28:27 ◼ ► internally to apple always accused the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1707">TS</a>]
00:28:29 ◼ ► compiler and languages team of taking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1709">TS</a>]
00:28:31 ◼ ► objective-c on this random walk and they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1711">TS</a>]
00:28:33 ◼ ► didn't know how to get together and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1713">TS</a>]
00:28:34 ◼ ► we're where's the strategy and why are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1714">TS</a>]
00:28:37 ◼ ► you guys working on this and why are you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1717">TS</a>]
00:28:38 ◼ ► working on some other syntactic sugar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1718">TS</a>]
00:28:40 ◼ ► for the thing i want and of course we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1720">TS</a>]
00:28:42 ◼ ► could never tell them but there was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1722">TS</a>]
00:28:44 ◼ ► there's a good reason and so on another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1724">TS</a>]
00:28:46 ◼ ► example that is the object literals [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1726">TS</a>]
00:28:49 ◼ ► feature i think we introduce that in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1729">TS</a>]
00:28:50 ◼ ► 2013 fire call work for Ray literals and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1730">TS</a>]
00:28:58 ◼ ► interesting feature in that it was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1738">TS</a>]
00:29:00 ◼ ► relatively small amount of engineering [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1740">TS</a>]
00:29:03 ◼ ► work the broad objectives the objective [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1743">TS</a>]
00:29:06 ◼ ► language much closer to Swift in terms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1746">TS</a>]
00:29:09 ◼ ► of having arrays and dictionaries [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1749">TS</a>]
00:29:11 ◼ ► literals as part of the language but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1751">TS</a>]
00:29:14 ◼ ► real reason for doing it is that it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1754">TS</a>]
00:29:18 ◼ ► directly forward which allowed the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1758">TS</a>]
00:29:19 ◼ ► compiler language team to focus on swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1759">TS</a>]
00:29:21 ◼ ► because with was a very large amount of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1761">TS</a>]
00:29:25 ◼ ► work and that was you know at appeasing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1765">TS</a>]
00:29:28 ◼ ► community and your route solving real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1768">TS</a>]
00:29:31 ◼ ► problems but you know buying time to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1771">TS</a>]
00:29:34 ◼ ► actually pour into the multi-year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1774">TS</a>]
00:29:35 ◼ ► project of making this with language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1775">TS</a>]
00:29:37 ◼ ► that's when you pull out the syntactic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1777">TS</a>]
00:29:40 ◼ ► attendance implement here you go that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1780">TS</a>]
00:29:43 ◼ ► everyone applauded when they see the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1783">TS</a>]
00:29:44 ◼ ► slide ba I mean in all fairness that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1784">TS</a>]
00:29:47 ◼ ► a really big deal anyway so it's kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1787">TS</a>]
00:29:49 ◼ ► building on on the Apple internal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1789">TS</a>]
00:29:53 ◼ ► you know with this this language in its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1793">TS</a>]
00:29:56 ◼ ► development and then its public release [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1796">TS</a>]
00:29:58 ◼ ► is probably fairly unique language in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1798">TS</a>]
00:30:01 ◼ ► like the context in which was released [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1801">TS</a>]
00:30:02 ◼ ► you have this this massive company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1802">TS</a>]
00:30:05 ◼ ► nobody probably had more absurd the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1805">TS</a>]
00:30:07 ◼ ► objective-c programmers an apple does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1807">TS</a>]
00:30:08 ◼ ► and see this massive company with tons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1808">TS</a>]
00:30:11 ◼ ► of internal programmers in a massive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1811">TS</a>]
00:30:13 ◼ ► internal code base that is using this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1813">TS</a>]
00:30:15 ◼ ► this other language you have this entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1815">TS</a>]
00:30:17 ◼ ► community of iOS and mac developers and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1817">TS</a>]
00:30:21 ◼ ► then you have the entire world watching [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1821">TS</a>]
00:30:24 ◼ ► every move apple makes and putting under [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1824">TS</a>]
00:30:26 ◼ ► very very heavy scrutiny so the release [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1826">TS</a>]
00:30:29 ◼ ► of his language in this context is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1829">TS</a>]
00:30:30 ◼ ► probably only very high pressure but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1830">TS</a>]
00:30:32 ◼ ► also like unique in that you you knew [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1832">TS</a>]
00:30:36 ◼ ► that you were gonna face a lot of people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1836">TS</a>]
00:30:39 ◼ ► up front like most languages probably [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1839">TS</a>]
00:30:41 ◼ ► start out with a few people using them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1841">TS</a>]
00:30:42 ◼ ► you know something some random quarter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1842">TS</a>]
00:30:44 ◼ ► the internet and eventually maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1844">TS</a>]
00:30:45 ◼ ► someone it maybe it slowly takes off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1845">TS</a>]
00:30:46 ◼ ► this was not that way and so what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1846">TS</a>]
00:30:50 ◼ ► considerations I guess when into that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1850">TS</a>]
00:30:52 ◼ ► and also how were you able to convince [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1852">TS</a>]
00:30:55 ◼ ► people even inside of Apple to to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1855">TS</a>]
00:30:59 ◼ ► swift and and how is how is that going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1859">TS</a>]
00:31:03 ◼ ► so I guess there's different answers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1863">TS</a>]
00:31:07 ◼ ► that four different phases we had no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1867">TS</a>]
00:31:12 ◼ ► idea that the reaction would be as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1872">TS</a>]
00:31:14 ◼ ► strong and as positive as it was and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1874">TS</a>]
00:31:16 ◼ ► I think we were blown away and caught [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1876">TS</a>]
00:31:18 ◼ ► unaware in some ways but otherwise I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1878">TS</a>]
00:31:24 ◼ ► think we did the right thing so for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1884">TS</a>]
00:31:26 ◼ ► example if you look at swift overtime so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1886">TS</a>]
00:31:29 ◼ ► if one and so if two are as similar to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1889">TS</a>]
00:31:32 ◼ ► objective sees we can make them so if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1892">TS</a>]
00:31:35 ◼ ► you look at the way that selectors are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1895">TS</a>]
00:31:36 ◼ ► named for example it was very there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1896">TS</a>]
00:31:40 ◼ ► very direct correlation if you look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1900">TS</a>]
00:31:42 ◼ ► the way objective-c swift one was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1902">TS</a>]
00:31:45 ◼ ► explained to people it was explained to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1905">TS</a>]
00:31:47 ◼ ► people as it's just like objective c you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1907">TS</a>]
00:31:51 ◼ ► can use all your same patterns you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1911">TS</a>]
00:31:52 ◼ ► use all same framework she can continue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1912">TS</a>]
00:31:54 ◼ ► doing object-oriented programming you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1914">TS</a>]
00:31:56 ◼ ► can do all these things but it also has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1916">TS</a>]
00:31:58 ◼ ► some cool new things like enums and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1918">TS</a>]
00:32:02 ◼ ► these other things and so it's great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1922">TS</a>]
00:32:04 ◼ ► because it's just cleaned up syntax for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1924">TS</a>]
00:32:07 ◼ ► plus it has some new cool stuff that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1927">TS</a>]
00:32:09 ◼ ► can play with right and then you fast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1929">TS</a>]
00:32:11 ◼ ► forward a year or two and the Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1931">TS</a>]
00:32:15 ◼ ► it was people were understanding what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1935">TS</a>]
00:32:17 ◼ ► with those about Swift open sources also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1937">TS</a>]
00:32:20 ◼ ► enabled this and so 3 is really about so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1940">TS</a>]
00:32:23 ◼ ► it's becoming its own language that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1943">TS</a>]
00:32:25 ◼ ► really true to itself and standing you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1945">TS</a>]
00:32:28 ◼ ► know stands by itself and that's where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1948">TS</a>]
00:32:30 ◼ ► you see the method call syntax for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1950">TS</a>]
00:32:32 ◼ ► example being radically changed and a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1952">TS</a>]
00:32:35 ◼ ► lot of things just kind of coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1955">TS</a>]
00:32:40 ◼ ► polishing the language in terms of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1960">TS</a>]
00:32:43 ◼ ► the rise of the community the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1963">TS</a>]
00:32:45 ◼ ► external community and people using it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1965">TS</a>]
00:32:47 ◼ ► that was really really hard for us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1967">TS</a>]
00:32:50 ◼ ► because so my experience has been with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1970">TS</a>]
00:32:53 ◼ ► lv and with clang clang as a C and C++ [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1973">TS</a>]
00:32:56 ◼ ► compiler and objective-c was completely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1976">TS</a>]
00:33:00 ◼ ► different than Swift because when we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1980">TS</a>]
00:33:02 ◼ ► open source and launch claim which was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1982">TS</a>]
00:33:05 ◼ ► at Apple everybody yond open source it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1985">TS</a>]
00:33:12 ◼ ► very early on and people said okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1992">TS</a>]
00:33:13 ◼ ► you're nuts nobody can build a c++ [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1993">TS</a>]
00:33:15 ◼ ► compiler that's that's not a thing why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1995">TS</a>]
00:33:18 ◼ ► are you even messing around with this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1998">TS</a>]
00:33:19 ◼ ► and you know we got one contributor to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/1999">TS</a>]
00:33:22 ◼ ► the project and we had no users and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2002">TS</a>]
00:33:25 ◼ ► we got you know month later we might get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2005">TS</a>]
00:33:26 ◼ ► another contributor or another person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2006">TS</a>]
00:33:28 ◼ ► part-time the setting and patches and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2008">TS</a>]
00:33:31 ◼ ► was a very slow growth that that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2011">TS</a>]
00:33:34 ◼ ► ultimately really great because it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2014">TS</a>]
00:33:37 ◼ ► relatively low pressure was swift and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2017">TS</a>]
00:33:39 ◼ ► with the the way was launched it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2019">TS</a>]
00:33:41 ◼ ► completely different because it went [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2021">TS</a>]
00:33:43 ◼ ► from nobody knowing about to everybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2023">TS</a>]
00:33:45 ◼ ► knowing about it overnight literally and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2025">TS</a>]
00:33:48 ◼ ► there being so much excitement so many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2028">TS</a>]
00:33:51 ◼ ► people that were nervous and had bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2031">TS</a>]
00:33:53 ◼ ► reactions other people that were super [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2033">TS</a>]
00:33:55 ◼ ► excited but a lot of people that were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2035">TS</a>]
00:33:59 ◼ ► challenges and problems and why did you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2039">TS</a>]
00:34:01 ◼ ► do this and why didn't you do that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2041">TS</a>]
00:34:03 ◼ ► you know some of that was misguided just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2043">TS</a>]
00:34:05 ◼ ► because they didn't know Swift yet but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2045">TS</a>]
00:34:07 ◼ ► other others other aspects were really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2047">TS</a>]
00:34:09 ◼ ► spot-on and that was 12 really started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2049">TS</a>]
00:34:12 ◼ ► learning about how people are using and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2052">TS</a>]
00:34:14 ◼ ► during moving Swift and Swift between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2054">TS</a>]
00:34:17 ◼ ► the WBC lon chance with one auto release [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2057">TS</a>]
00:34:21 ◼ ► change dramatically and that was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2061">TS</a>]
00:34:24 ◼ ► really really hard time for the entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2064">TS</a>]
00:34:26 ◼ ► team because we really want to get it as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2066">TS</a>]
00:34:29 ◼ ► close as we could what we wanted but we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2069">TS</a>]
00:34:31 ◼ ► had a very short amount of time to do so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2071">TS</a>]
00:34:33 ◼ ► and I think that's been true first with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2073">TS</a>]
00:34:36 ◼ ► two and so with three as well where we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2076">TS</a>]
00:34:38 ◼ ► have really high goals for the team and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2078">TS</a>]
00:34:41 ◼ ► really high goals for what we want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2081">TS</a>]
00:34:43 ◼ ► get done and that makes it a lot a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2083">TS</a>]
00:34:45 ◼ ► of pressure and a lot of stress but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2085">TS</a>]
00:34:49 ◼ ► I think worth it to serve and see the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2089">TS</a>]
00:34:52 ◼ ► community around Swift grow and see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2092">TS</a>]
00:34:55 ◼ ► people use it and see people learn it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2095">TS</a>]
00:34:57 ◼ ► and it's been a lot of fun so I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2097">TS</a>]
00:35:00 ◼ ► I know when Swift first came out it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2100">TS</a>]
00:35:02 ◼ ► hard to get a lot of adoption inside of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2102">TS</a>]
00:35:05 ◼ ► apple for various you know tooling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2105">TS</a>]
00:35:07 ◼ ► reasons uh among men maybe whatever else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2107">TS</a>]
00:35:10 ◼ ► how is internal adoption going today [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2110">TS</a>]
00:35:13 ◼ ► like re seeing meaningful adoption hours [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2113">TS</a>]
00:35:15 ◼ ► at most i was programs were using it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2115">TS</a>]
00:35:17 ◼ ► not anybody inside the White team itself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2117">TS</a>]
00:35:20 ◼ ► has specific goals they need to achieve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2120">TS</a>]
00:35:24 ◼ ► across-the-board adoption at Apple's ABI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2124">TS</a>]
00:35:28 ◼ ► stability is the number one thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2128">TS</a>]
00:35:30 ◼ ► prevents framework developers for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2130">TS</a>]
00:35:31 ◼ ► example from adopting Swift so that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2131">TS</a>]
00:35:34 ◼ ► really important thing that's one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2134">TS</a>]
00:35:36 ◼ ► reasons it's always a really high [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2136">TS</a>]
00:35:37 ◼ ► priority but switch has been adopted by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2137">TS</a>]
00:35:40 ◼ ► application developers and other things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2140">TS</a>]
00:35:42 ◼ ► the doc is publix with playgrounds app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2142">TS</a>]
00:35:45 ◼ ► is public the music app in iOS is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2145">TS</a>]
00:35:48 ◼ ► publicly known so they're they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2148">TS</a>]
00:35:49 ◼ ► definitely some big big adopters more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2149">TS</a>]
00:35:52 ◼ ► broadly though that the big problem is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2152">TS</a>]
00:35:53 ◼ ► that i think and i will speak for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2153">TS</a>]
00:35:56 ◼ ► everybody but in many many people doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2156">TS</a>]
00:35:59 ◼ ► objects development and Apple are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2159">TS</a>]
00:36:01 ◼ ► chomping at the bit they want to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2161">TS</a>]
00:36:02 ◼ ► using Swift and so it's it's really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2162">TS</a>]
00:36:04 ◼ ► matter just getting the technology [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2164">TS</a>]
00:36:06 ◼ ► problem-solve didn't get you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2166">TS</a>]
00:36:07 ◼ ► checking out the things are holding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2167">TS</a>]
00:36:09 ◼ ► people back it's not about you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2169">TS</a>]
00:36:12 ◼ ► people dragging their feet and not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2172">TS</a>]
00:36:14 ◼ ► wanting to use it makes sense that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2174">TS</a>]
00:36:16 ◼ ► really also get it from from the outside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2176">TS</a>]
00:36:18 ◼ ► it's so hard to figure out you know is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2178">TS</a>]
00:36:20 ◼ ► is Apple internally like oh really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2180">TS</a>]
00:36:23 ◼ ► or for example internally like you said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2183">TS</a>]
00:36:25 ◼ ► like really excited and I'm sure that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2185">TS</a>]
00:36:27 ◼ ► but that's really good to hear yeah and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2187">TS</a>]
00:36:29 ◼ ► i think it's also changed over time when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2189">TS</a>]
00:36:32 ◼ ► it first came out of course it was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2192">TS</a>]
00:36:34 ◼ ► huge surprise for most of the software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2194">TS</a>]
00:36:36 ◼ ► team and so you know many people went [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2196">TS</a>]
00:36:39 ◼ ► through the usual phases of matter and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2199">TS</a>]
00:36:42 ◼ ► no objective c why would have learned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2202">TS</a>]
00:36:44 ◼ ► this new thing objective-c is great and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2204">TS</a>]
00:36:45 ◼ ► objective-c is great so that that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2205">TS</a>]
00:36:48 ◼ ► that's an objective statement right but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2208">TS</a>]
00:36:52 ◼ ► I think things have shifted over time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2212">TS</a>]
00:36:53 ◼ ► and as switches matured it's definitely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2213">TS</a>]
00:36:56 ◼ ► become a lot more appealing and one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2216">TS</a>]
00:37:00 ◼ ► hilarious but also really important is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2220">TS</a>]
00:37:03 ◼ ► the Apple frameworks that has to support [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2223">TS</a>]
00:37:06 ◼ ► 32 the mac apps in 37 mac apps have this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2226">TS</a>]
00:37:09 ◼ ► interesting challenge of they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2229">TS</a>]
00:37:11 ◼ ► what's called the classic objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2231">TS</a>]
00:37:13 ◼ ► runtime which doesn't support things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2233">TS</a>]
00:37:16 ◼ ► like non fragile instance variables and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2236">TS</a>]
00:37:18 ◼ ► things like that and so at some point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2238">TS</a>]
00:37:20 ◼ ► I'm the Swift team will need to make the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2240">TS</a>]
00:37:22 ◼ ► Swift runtime work in that mode or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2242">TS</a>]
00:37:24 ◼ ► figure out some other solution to adapt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2244">TS</a>]
00:37:27 ◼ ► it because until that happens it won't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2247">TS</a>]
00:37:29 ◼ ► be possible use Swift an appt get for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2249">TS</a>]
00:37:32 ◼ ► well that's fascinating so kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2252">TS</a>]
00:37:35 ◼ ► taking a more broad view do you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2255">TS</a>]
00:37:40 ◼ ► you name either you're most proud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2260">TS</a>]
00:37:42 ◼ ► accomplishment during your time at Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2262">TS</a>]
00:37:44 ◼ ► that you can discuss publicly anyway or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2264">TS</a>]
00:37:46 ◼ ► if not you're most proud just won the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2266">TS</a>]
00:37:49 ◼ ► wow I don't have been really fortunate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2269">TS</a>]
00:37:53 ◼ ► to work on so many really important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2273">TS</a>]
00:37:55 ◼ ► projects and I mean I think that between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2275">TS</a>]
00:37:59 ◼ ► lvm and swift for example it's really a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2279">TS</a>]
00:38:03 ◼ ► I'm Swift I think impacts more people in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2283">TS</a>]
00:38:08 ◼ ► terms of the number of people would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2288">TS</a>]
00:38:10 ◼ ► actually know they're using it and want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2290">TS</a>]
00:38:13 ◼ ► to learn it and things like that but i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2293">TS</a>]
00:38:14 ◼ ► think the lvm has been picked up and use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2294">TS</a>]
00:38:17 ◼ ► so far across industry and its kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2297">TS</a>]
00:38:19 ◼ ► standardizing the world's compilers I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2299">TS</a>]
00:38:21 ◼ ► think that's probably more profound at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2301">TS</a>]
00:38:23 ◼ ► this point so it's really it's a start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2303">TS</a>]
00:38:27 ◼ ► calling and that they're there are a ton [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2307">TS</a>]
00:38:29 ◼ ► of really really great opportunities [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2309">TS</a>]
00:38:33 ◼ ► that I've had and spend a lot of fun [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2313">TS</a>]
00:38:36 ◼ ► also outside the open-source pieces [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2316">TS</a>]
00:38:38 ◼ ► working with the expert team and working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2318">TS</a>]
00:38:41 ◼ ► with the other teams and developer tools [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2321">TS</a>]
00:38:43 ◼ ► I mean there's so many great people at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2323">TS</a>]
00:38:45 ◼ ► Apple and Android developer tools it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2325">TS</a>]
00:38:48 ◼ ► so what do you expect to miss the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2328">TS</a>]
00:38:51 ◼ ► about being an apple and I'm gonna take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2331">TS</a>]
00:38:53 ◼ ► I'm gonna let you expand on this but I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2333">TS</a>]
00:38:55 ◼ ► gonna take it off the table and so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2335">TS</a>]
00:38:56 ◼ ► have to pick like your second choice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2336">TS</a>]
00:38:57 ◼ ► you're gonna say like you miss the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2337">TS</a>]
00:38:58 ◼ ► people because of course you do right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2338">TS</a>]
00:39:00 ◼ ► yes that is actually what i would say [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2340">TS</a>]
00:39:02 ◼ ► right but everybody you know so you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2342">TS</a>]
00:39:04 ◼ ► go ahead and tell us about all the great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2344">TS</a>]
00:39:05 ◼ ► people your example but besides that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2345">TS</a>]
00:39:07 ◼ ► what do you expect to miss most about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2347">TS</a>]
00:39:09 ◼ ► Apple the company working well so the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2349">TS</a>]
00:39:11 ◼ ► great thing about Apple and the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2351">TS</a>]
00:39:13 ◼ ► that I don't think that many people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2353">TS</a>]
00:39:14 ◼ ► really get about Apple is it is really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2354">TS</a>]
00:39:19 ◼ ► one of the few best place in the world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2359">TS</a>]
00:39:22 ◼ ► where you can work hard but also work on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2362">TS</a>]
00:39:25 ◼ ► products that ship and the ship to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2365">TS</a>]
00:39:29 ◼ ► millions of people so that your hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2369">TS</a>]
00:39:31 ◼ ► work ends up mattering right there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2371">TS</a>]
00:39:33 ◼ ► there's a lot of places you can work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2373">TS</a>]
00:39:35 ◼ ► hard there's a lot of places that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2375">TS</a>]
00:39:37 ◼ ► can work on interesting things but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2377">TS</a>]
00:39:40 ◼ ► there's also a lot of places end up not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2380">TS</a>]
00:39:42 ◼ ► shipping a lot or or if they ship it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2382">TS</a>]
00:39:45 ◼ ► very few people actually use it and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2385">TS</a>]
00:39:47 ◼ ► apples really really magical in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2387">TS</a>]
00:39:50 ◼ ► combines being you know being able to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2390">TS</a>]
00:39:53 ◼ ► work hard and in do great things with it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2393">TS</a>]
00:39:55 ◼ ► actually mattering and to me that that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2395">TS</a>]
00:39:57 ◼ ► the thing that that is just so so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2397">TS</a>]
00:39:59 ◼ ► phenomenal about Apple so so moving on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2399">TS</a>]
00:40:03 ◼ ► to your new role at Tesla do you think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2403">TS</a>]
00:40:06 ◼ ► that Swift will still be a major part of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2406">TS</a>]
00:40:09 ◼ ► your work life in some way like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2409">TS</a>]
00:40:11 ◼ ► or will basically be like something you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2411">TS</a>]
00:40:13 ◼ ► do in the evenings and weekends because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2413">TS</a>]
00:40:15 ◼ ► we all know that that Silicon Valley [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2415">TS</a>]
00:40:16 ◼ ► tech startups don't usually work people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2416">TS</a>]
00:40:18 ◼ ► too hard you're gonna have tons of free [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2418">TS</a>]
00:40:22 ◼ ► definitely do a cushy no easy that right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2422">TS</a>]
00:40:26 ◼ ► that that's what I'm looking for here uh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2426">TS</a>]
00:40:30 ◼ ► so i don't know we'll have to see i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2430">TS</a>]
00:40:33 ◼ ► haven't started yet and i think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2433">TS</a>]
00:40:36 ◼ ► going to be very challenging job and one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2436">TS</a>]
00:40:37 ◼ ► of the reasons I'm excited about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2437">TS</a>]
00:40:39 ◼ ► because I really want to throw myself [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2439">TS</a>]
00:40:40 ◼ ► into another heart technology problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2440">TS</a>]
00:40:43 ◼ ► and so I'm really excited about that i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2443">TS</a>]
00:40:45 ◼ ► do expect to be involved with the design [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2445">TS</a>]
00:40:47 ◼ ► of swift and helping helping with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2447">TS</a>]
00:40:50 ◼ ► core team and helping Swift evolution [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2450">TS</a>]
00:40:51 ◼ ► process and helping in and allow that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2451">TS</a>]
00:40:53 ◼ ► kind of respect but one of things to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2453">TS</a>]
00:40:55 ◼ ► keep in mind is that Swift was actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2455">TS</a>]
00:40:57 ◼ ► really tiny slice of my job at apple and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2457">TS</a>]
00:41:01 ◼ ► so you know I had a very full schedule [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2461">TS</a>]
00:41:05 ◼ ► dealing with lots of other stuff and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2465">TS</a>]
00:41:08 ◼ ► was already kind of nights and weekends [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2468">TS</a>]
00:41:09 ◼ ► project that i was coating on it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2469">TS</a>]
00:41:12 ◼ ► contributing at the level that I was so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2472">TS</a>]
00:41:15 ◼ ► I'm hoping with all be a big change but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2475">TS</a>]
00:41:17 ◼ ► honestly i'll have to see obviously I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2477">TS</a>]
00:41:20 ◼ ► care a lot about Swift and I really want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2480">TS</a>]
00:41:22 ◼ ► to get to its go over world domination [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2482">TS</a>]
00:41:25 ◼ ► so we're sponsor tonight by eero go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2485">TS</a>]
00:41:28 ◼ ► eurocom at the ER o.com and use code ATP [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2488">TS</a>]
00:41:32 ◼ ► when you order for free expedited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2492">TS</a>]
00:41:36 ◼ ► you probably have one Wi-Fi router with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2496">TS</a>]
00:41:38 ◼ ► if you're lucky a bunch of antennas on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2498">TS</a>]
00:41:40 ◼ ► that look hideous and you're trying to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2500">TS</a>]
00:41:43 ◼ ► cover your whole house with Wi-Fi but it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2503">TS</a>]
00:41:46 ◼ ► it just doesn't reach everywhere because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2506">TS</a>]
00:41:47 ◼ ► Wi-Fi is hard when you're recovering [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2507">TS</a>]
00:41:49 ◼ ► from 1.0 solve this problem by having a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2509">TS</a>]
00:41:53 ◼ ► router system where they will they had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2513">TS</a>]
00:41:55 ◼ ► this little ear units nice attractive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2515">TS</a>]
00:41:56 ◼ ► it's tastefully designed there's not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2516">TS</a>]
00:41:58 ◼ ► bunch of antennae sticking out of it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2518">TS</a>]
00:42:00 ◼ ► you can buy one of them or you can buy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2520">TS</a>]
00:42:02 ◼ ► 10 of them are a number in between and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2522">TS</a>]
00:42:04 ◼ ► that you put them around your house and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2524">TS</a>]
00:42:06 ◼ ► each one covers the area in Wi-Fi and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2526">TS</a>]
00:42:11 ◼ ► wirelessly so you don't have to run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2531">TS</a>]
00:42:12 ◼ ► wires love your house you can have your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2532">TS</a>]
00:42:14 ◼ ► entire house blanketed in Wi-Fi with 0 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2534">TS</a>]
00:42:16 ◼ ► and they talk to each other over this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2536">TS</a>]
00:42:18 ◼ ► mesh network so it's even faster than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2538">TS</a>]
00:42:21 ◼ ► extender and centers are very slow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2541">TS</a>]
00:42:23 ◼ ► it's even faster than that by a lot and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2543">TS</a>]
00:42:26 ◼ ► 0 is true enterprise-grade quality and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2546">TS</a>]
00:42:28 ◼ ► performance they have everything you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2548">TS</a>]
00:42:30 ◼ ► need from encryption features two things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2550">TS</a>]
00:42:32 ◼ ► like parental controls and that they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2552">TS</a>]
00:42:33 ◼ ► actually updating it over time they've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2553">TS</a>]
00:42:35 ◼ ► done over 12 updates since launch with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2555">TS</a>]
00:42:37 ◼ ► more to come to add features they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2557">TS</a>]
00:42:39 ◼ ► an app for very easy setup and they have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2559">TS</a>]
00:42:41 ◼ ► incredible customer support if you need [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2561">TS</a>]
00:42:44 ◼ ► they recommend 10 per thousand square [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2564">TS</a>]
00:42:45 ◼ ► feet so typical home will have two or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2565">TS</a>]
00:42:47 ◼ ► three of them they got a three pack as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2567">TS</a>]
00:42:49 ◼ ► pretty reasonable starting point for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2569">TS</a>]
00:42:52 ◼ ► money-back guarantee if you don't like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2572">TS</a>]
00:42:54 ◼ ► it or if you could buy too many you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2574">TS</a>]
00:42:55 ◼ ► to return a couple of them if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2575">TS</a>]
00:42:56 ◼ ► I'm not eating as many as you bought [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2576">TS</a>]
00:42:58 ◼ ► check it out the reviews are stellar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2578">TS</a>]
00:43:00 ◼ ► they back this up go to 0 comments de ro [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2580">TS</a>]
00:43:04 ◼ ► dah calm and use code ATP when you order [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2584">TS</a>]
00:43:16 ◼ ► obviously Swift is open-source I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2596">TS</a>]
00:43:17 ◼ ► know if you're aware that Chris but uh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2597">TS</a>]
00:43:18 ◼ ► huh i'm looking at yeah right at how do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2598">TS</a>]
00:43:21 ◼ ► you feel like it's been going so far in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2601">TS</a>]
00:43:23 ◼ ► i'm assuming similar to John you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2603">TS</a>]
00:43:25 ◼ ► I'm gonna take away the obvious answer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2605">TS</a>]
00:43:27 ◼ ► it's going well but it may be too kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2607">TS</a>]
00:43:29 ◼ ► of Q conversation what's been really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2609">TS</a>]
00:43:32 ◼ ► surprising about going open source and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2612">TS</a>]
00:43:35 ◼ ► and you can get a specific or as broad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2615">TS</a>]
00:43:37 ◼ ► as you'd like to be but I got to imagine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2617">TS</a>]
00:43:38 ◼ ► that that you guys had a bunch of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2618">TS</a>]
00:43:41 ◼ ► expectations about what going open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2621">TS</a>]
00:43:43 ◼ ► source would be like and i would imagine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2623">TS</a>]
00:43:44 ◼ ► some of them are accurate and some of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2624">TS</a>]
00:43:45 ◼ ► them weren't so how do you feel like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2625">TS</a>]
00:43:47 ◼ ► Swift open source project has been going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2627">TS</a>]
00:43:48 ◼ ► yeah so I think that 22 to summarize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2628">TS</a>]
00:43:52 ◼ ► it's not just going well it's going far [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2632">TS</a>]
00:43:54 ◼ ► better than we ever anticipated and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2634">TS</a>]
00:44:02 ◼ ► I and many of the other people on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2642">TS</a>]
00:44:03 ◼ ► team had quite a bit of open-source [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2643">TS</a>]
00:44:05 ◼ ► experience so elevated claim for example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2645">TS</a>]
00:44:08 ◼ ► open-source they they were they are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2648">TS</a>]
00:44:12 ◼ ► vibrant and amazing communities with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2652">TS</a>]
00:44:14 ◼ ► hundreds of contributors and dozens of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2654">TS</a>]
00:44:18 ◼ ► companies are collaborating in public [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2658">TS</a>]
00:44:20 ◼ ► and doing really amazing stuff even some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2660">TS</a>]
00:44:22 ◼ ► of the most staunch competitors you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2662">TS</a>]
00:44:25 ◼ ► AMD AMD and intel and AMD and nvidia or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2665">TS</a>]
00:44:29 ◼ ► you know the these kinds of companies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2669">TS</a>]
00:44:30 ◼ ► that really you know don't get along on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2670">TS</a>]
00:44:33 ◼ ► the business side of things but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2673">TS</a>]
00:44:35 ◼ ► engineers were great at working engineer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2675">TS</a>]
00:44:37 ◼ ► to engineer and solving problems and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2677">TS</a>]
00:44:39 ◼ ► stay focused on making things better so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2679">TS</a>]
00:44:42 ◼ ► with Swift we assume that would be very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2682">TS</a>]
00:44:45 ◼ ► similar to that but what we found is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2685">TS</a>]
00:44:48 ◼ ► that there was a major difference [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2688">TS</a>]
00:44:49 ◼ ► between launching Swift and launching [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2689">TS</a>]
00:44:51 ◼ ► something like playing for example which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2691">TS</a>]
00:44:53 ◼ ► is that when Swift losses open source [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2693">TS</a>]
00:44:56 ◼ ► which was december third just over a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2696">TS</a>]
00:44:58 ◼ ► year ago in RI had I don't know a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2698">TS</a>]
00:45:06 ◼ ► started and every yond and didn't really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2706">TS</a>]
00:45:09 ◼ ► care and grew slowly Swift open-source [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2709">TS</a>]
00:45:13 ◼ ► started and was amazingly fast moving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2713">TS</a>]
00:45:16 ◼ ► changing tons of people hundreds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2716">TS</a>]
00:45:19 ◼ ► patches on the first day it was totally [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2719">TS</a>]
00:45:20 ◼ ► crazy and we didn't really know what to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2720">TS</a>]
00:45:22 ◼ ► do and so I mean it's I i am like super [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2722">TS</a>]
00:45:26 ◼ ► impressed with the the Swift open source [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2726">TS</a>]
00:45:28 ◼ ► community and all the people involved in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2728">TS</a>]
00:45:30 ◼ ► the energy and just think it's just it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2730">TS</a>]
00:45:32 ◼ ► hard it's hard to believe how great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2732">TS</a>]
00:45:34 ◼ ► everything is but it it really did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2734">TS</a>]
00:45:37 ◼ ► create problems because we had to figure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2737">TS</a>]
00:45:38 ◼ ► out things like how we're gonna stay up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2738">TS</a>]
00:45:42 ◼ ► okay we're getting hundreds and hundreds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2742">TS</a>]
00:45:43 ◼ ► of emails a day to the Swift evolution [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2743">TS</a>]
00:45:45 ◼ ► mailing list what are we going to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2745">TS</a>]
00:45:47 ◼ ► how do we balance apples goals for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2747">TS</a>]
00:45:52 ◼ ► pushing Swift forward with the goals of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2752">TS</a>]
00:45:53 ◼ ► the community which are somewhat more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2753">TS</a>]
00:45:55 ◼ ► chaotic and last directed and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2755">TS</a>]
00:45:58 ◼ ► that over last year we've learned a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2758">TS</a>]
00:46:00 ◼ ► and you can see that reflect in terms of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2760">TS</a>]
00:46:02 ◼ ► how the project is being managed and how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2762">TS</a>]
00:46:05 ◼ ► how things are being done but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2765">TS</a>]
00:46:07 ◼ ► always been super important to be not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2767">TS</a>]
00:46:10 ◼ ► just open source but I guess if you look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2770">TS</a>]
00:46:14 ◼ ► at an open source project there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2774">TS</a>]
00:46:15 ◼ ► there's three kind of easy levels to to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2775">TS</a>]
00:46:18 ◼ ► look at it the first basic requirement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2778">TS</a>]
00:46:21 ◼ ► the ssi to be open sources to make your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2781">TS</a>]
00:46:23 ◼ ► code available right and so you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2783">TS</a>]
00:46:25 ◼ ► produce tarballs periodically and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2785">TS</a>]
00:46:27 ◼ ► technically open source you can allow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2787">TS</a>]
00:46:31 ◼ ► contributions and if you do that through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2791">TS</a>]
00:46:33 ◼ ► pull requests or patches or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2793">TS</a>]
00:46:35 ◼ ► then people can engage with it and make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2795">TS</a>]
00:46:39 ◼ ► there's open community so not only can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2799">TS</a>]
00:46:42 ◼ ► do you accept a patch but you actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2802">TS</a>]
00:46:44 ◼ ► discuss things and talk about things in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2804">TS</a>]
00:46:47 ◼ ► public and then there's open design and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2807">TS</a>]
00:46:50 ◼ ► with Swift we went all the way and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2810">TS</a>]
00:46:51 ◼ ► think it was totally the right thing to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2811">TS</a>]
00:46:53 ◼ ► do because we really want to benefit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2813">TS</a>]
00:46:54 ◼ ► from all the smart people in the world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2814">TS</a>]
00:46:56 ◼ ► and it was it and still is amazing but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2816">TS</a>]
00:47:01 ◼ ► yeah I can imagine so building upon the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2821">TS</a>]
00:47:05 ◼ ► open sourcing of Swift it was very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2825">TS</a>]
00:47:08 ◼ ► surprising to me and I think a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2828">TS</a>]
00:47:09 ◼ ► the community that Apple chose to upload [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2829">TS</a>]
00:47:12 ◼ ► the entire commit history it wasn't just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2832">TS</a>]
00:47:14 ◼ ► a here's day one initial commitment you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2834">TS</a>]
00:47:18 ◼ ► the gazillion lines of code was that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2838">TS</a>]
00:47:21 ◼ ► plan from the start that you guys would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2841">TS</a>]
00:47:23 ◼ ► upload the entire history i would say it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2843">TS</a>]
00:47:25 ◼ ► was planned from the start that we'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2845">TS</a>]
00:47:26 ◼ ► upload the entire history but it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2846">TS</a>]
00:47:28 ◼ ► kind of assumed from the start that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2848">TS</a>]
00:47:30 ◼ ► would be open source at some point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2850">TS</a>]
00:47:32 ◼ ► interesting and if you look at apple's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2852">TS</a>]
00:47:35 ◼ ► history i think that's that's in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2855">TS</a>]
00:47:40 ◼ ► straightforward lvm wasn't started at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2860">TS</a>]
00:47:44 ◼ ► Apple but almost almost everything Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2864">TS</a>]
00:47:49 ◼ ► does end up going public in the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2869">TS</a>]
00:47:52 ◼ ► clang was started at apple and claimed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2872">TS</a>]
00:47:54 ◼ ► was contributed by Apple to the album [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2874">TS</a>]
00:47:57 ◼ ► project and that included his full [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2877">TS</a>]
00:48:00 ◼ ► revision history other projects like ldb [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2880">TS</a>]
00:48:02 ◼ ► and lip c++ compiler RT and all these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2882">TS</a>]
00:48:06 ◼ ► other smaller projects were started at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2886">TS</a>]
00:48:09 ◼ ► apple and contribute to the open source [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2889">TS</a>]
00:48:10 ◼ ► project so Swift it was kind of assumed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2890">TS</a>]
00:48:13 ◼ ► that that would happen at some point the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2893">TS</a>]
00:48:15 ◼ ► the real question was when when is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2895">TS</a>]
00:48:17 ◼ ► right time for that to happen and if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2897">TS</a>]
00:48:20 ◼ ► remember the days of Swift window Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2900">TS</a>]
00:48:23 ◼ ► 1022 dunno in particular was a super [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2903">TS</a>]
00:48:26 ◼ ► chaotic super learning as we went and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2906">TS</a>]
00:48:29 ◼ ► trying to keep up with the community and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2909">TS</a>]
00:48:30 ◼ ► trying to keep up with the pace and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2910">TS</a>]
00:48:32 ◼ ► challenges that people were facing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2912">TS</a>]
00:48:34 ◼ ► trying to get key pieces like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2914">TS</a>]
00:48:37 ◼ ► extensions and all that kind of stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2917">TS</a>]
00:48:38 ◼ ► that it always been planned but one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2918">TS</a>]
00:48:41 ◼ ► didn't make it into Swift window and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2921">TS</a>]
00:48:43 ◼ ► really focusing on that was the priority [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2923">TS</a>]
00:48:48 ◼ ► sourcing Swift at 10 for example would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2928">TS</a>]
00:48:50 ◼ ► be really actually bad for the Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2930">TS</a>]
00:48:53 ◼ ► community because there are major pieces [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2933">TS</a>]
00:48:54 ◼ ► language that weren't there we would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2934">TS</a>]
00:48:57 ◼ ► have to spend a lot of time community [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2937">TS</a>]
00:48:59 ◼ ► building and try to explain to people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2939">TS</a>]
00:49:00 ◼ ► the difference between what was not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2940">TS</a>]
00:49:03 ◼ ► there but should be there and what is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2943">TS</a>]
00:49:05 ◼ ► you know there and known broken and we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2945">TS</a>]
00:49:08 ◼ ► had to do a lot of that one swift was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2948">TS</a>]
00:49:10 ◼ ► eventually open source than in last year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2950">TS</a>]
00:49:13 ◼ ► right after Swift to toronto but it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2953">TS</a>]
00:49:15 ◼ ► a much better place and the team could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2955">TS</a>]
00:49:16 ◼ ► actually handle the load of doing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2956">TS</a>]
00:49:19 ◼ ► community and we didn't expect the kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2959">TS</a>]
00:49:23 ◼ ► building a vibrant open source community [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2963">TS</a>]
00:49:25 ◼ ► is a lot of work and it's not something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2965">TS</a>]
00:49:26 ◼ ► to be under underestimated we want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2966">TS</a>]
00:49:29 ◼ ► make sure that Swift to was out the door [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2969">TS</a>]
00:49:33 ◼ ► contention between do we finished with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2973">TS</a>]
00:49:36 ◼ ► two or do we start open source and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2976">TS</a>]
00:49:39 ◼ ► and that's why I was announced to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2979">TS</a>]
00:49:41 ◼ ► open source by the end of the year [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2981">TS</a>]
00:49:42 ◼ ► because that meant that we can start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2982">TS</a>]
00:49:45 ◼ ► infrastructure project bringing up all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2985">TS</a>]
00:49:47 ◼ ► the other stuff that takes to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2987">TS</a>]
00:49:48 ◼ ► something open source after Swift is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2988">TS</a>]
00:49:50 ◼ ► complete so my recollection of the Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2990">TS</a>]
00:49:54 ◼ ► three in the planning stages was that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2994">TS</a>]
00:49:56 ◼ ► ABI compatibility was somewhere in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/2996">TS</a>]
00:50:00 ◼ ► list of I'm not gonna call them goals [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3000">TS</a>]
00:50:03 ◼ ► but somewhere in the list of items that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3003">TS</a>]
00:50:05 ◼ ► were in contention for a swift 3 and at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3005">TS</a>]
00:50:07 ◼ ► some point along the development process [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3007">TS</a>]
00:50:11 ◼ ► postponed and given what you just said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3011">TS</a>]
00:50:15 ◼ ► compatibility for the framework people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3015">TS</a>]
00:50:18 ◼ ► what can you say about that is the did [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3018">TS</a>]
00:50:22 ◼ ► you learn lessons from ABI compatibility [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3022">TS</a>]
00:50:25 ◼ ► being planned for the three or do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3025">TS</a>]
00:50:27 ◼ ► think like it was never really hard and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3027">TS</a>]
00:50:29 ◼ ► fast goal and you totally made the right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3029">TS</a>]
00:50:31 ◼ ► call to delay it or are you disappointed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3031">TS</a>]
00:50:34 ◼ ► I'm i think many of those things I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3034">TS</a>]
00:50:37 ◼ ► we're disappointed that it got delayed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3037">TS</a>]
00:50:38 ◼ ► but it was totally the right time I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3038">TS</a>]
00:50:41 ◼ ► think that there's a couple of things to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3041">TS</a>]
00:50:43 ◼ ► learn from that one of which is software [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3043">TS</a>]
00:50:44 ◼ ► schedule planning is hard but breaking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3044">TS</a>]
00:50:50 ◼ ► yeah so that that's definitely still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3050">TS</a>]
00:50:52 ◼ ► thing there's also that we didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3052">TS</a>]
00:50:55 ◼ ► anticipate the so the original plan [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3055">TS</a>]
00:50:58 ◼ ► you're referring to was announced before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3058">TS</a>]
00:51:00 ◼ ► switch is open source or super sorry was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3060">TS</a>]
00:51:02 ◼ ► announced the same time so it was open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3062">TS</a>]
00:51:03 ◼ ► source and so we had no idea that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3063">TS</a>]
00:51:06 ◼ ► community would descend on swift and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3066">TS</a>]
00:51:08 ◼ ► suddenly have all these new demands and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3068">TS</a>]
00:51:11 ◼ ► consume so much time and energy from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3071">TS</a>]
00:51:14 ◼ ► that have took away from programming to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3074">TS</a>]
00:51:16 ◼ ► do the community building peace so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3076">TS</a>]
00:51:21 ◼ ► stability is super important but it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3081">TS</a>]
00:51:24 ◼ ► not as important as people think it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3084">TS</a>]
00:51:26 ◼ ► for application developers it's really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3086">TS</a>]
00:51:28 ◼ ► important to apple but what we realized [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3088">TS</a>]
00:51:32 ◼ ► in the three timeframe is that the thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3092">TS</a>]
00:51:33 ◼ ► after developers would benefit from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3093">TS</a>]
00:51:36 ◼ ► most was actually sourced ability so who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3096">TS</a>]
00:51:40 ◼ ► actually wants their application be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3100">TS</a>]
00:51:42 ◼ ► broken when they get new version of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3102">TS</a>]
00:51:44 ◼ ► well really nobody right and so and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3104">TS</a>]
00:51:48 ◼ ► kind of halfway through the release we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3108">TS</a>]
00:51:49 ◼ ► pivoted and source can soar stability [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3109">TS</a>]
00:51:52 ◼ ► became the goal and so I'm really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3112">TS</a>]
00:51:54 ◼ ► excited that ones with the three don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3114">TS</a>]
00:51:56 ◼ ► want or so for comes out that I'm still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3116">TS</a>]
00:51:59 ◼ ► gonna be able to build with three code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3119">TS</a>]
00:52:00 ◼ ► and even if there are minor changes that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3120">TS</a>]
00:52:03 ◼ ► need to be made for one reason or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3123">TS</a>]
00:52:04 ◼ ► another that you can upgrade and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3124">TS</a>]
00:52:07 ◼ ► have great compatibility with your old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3127">TS</a>]
00:52:09 ◼ ► code and you don't have to start the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3129">TS</a>]
00:52:11 ◼ ► migrator before you can do anything so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3131">TS</a>]
00:52:13 ◼ ► it's gonna be a great improvement for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3133">TS</a>]
00:52:16 ◼ ► alright so moving on a little bit to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3136">TS</a>]
00:52:18 ◼ ► that kind of this branch topic here of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3138">TS</a>]
00:52:21 ◼ ► server-side Swift with on linux things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3141">TS</a>]
00:52:23 ◼ ► like this is is switched on the server [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3143">TS</a>]
00:52:27 ◼ ► something that you know I i know it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3147">TS</a>]
00:52:30 ◼ ► possible and there's like some seemingly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3150">TS</a>]
00:52:33 ◼ ► some early efforts now to get that going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3153">TS</a>]
00:52:35 ◼ ► it do you see this as like a major goal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3155">TS</a>]
00:52:38 ◼ ► first trip to the language and you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3158">TS</a>]
00:52:40 ◼ ► not not any kind of official capacity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3160">TS</a>]
00:52:42 ◼ ► just like you as a person who who likes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3162">TS</a>]
00:52:44 ◼ ► and user Swift and has as a you know a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3164">TS</a>]
00:52:46 ◼ ► strong role in the community like is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3166">TS</a>]
00:52:50 ◼ ► server-side Swift a thing that you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3170">TS</a>]
00:52:53 ◼ ► to be like a major thing to compete with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3173">TS</a>]
00:52:55 ◼ ► you know things like Python rails and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3175">TS</a>]
00:52:57 ◼ ► stuff on the server or is it intended [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3177">TS</a>]
00:53:00 ◼ ► more to be kind of like a specialized [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3180">TS</a>]
00:53:02 ◼ ► thing that is probably not going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3182">TS</a>]
00:53:03 ◼ ► in widespread use by like web and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3183">TS</a>]
00:53:05 ◼ ► back-end programmers so I think that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3185">TS</a>]
00:53:08 ◼ ► everybody involved with the project [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3188">TS</a>]
00:53:11 ◼ ► wanted to be the way to do server [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3191">TS</a>]
00:53:17 ◼ ► understand that you have to understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3197">TS</a>]
00:53:18 ◼ ► were just kind of entering phase 2 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3198">TS</a>]
00:53:21 ◼ ► Swift's world domination plan so this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3201">TS</a>]
00:53:27 ◼ ► will probably sound insane but maybe in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3207">TS</a>]
00:53:29 ◼ ► a few years it will sound less than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3209">TS</a>]
00:53:31 ◼ ► saying it but the way to look at it the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3211">TS</a>]
00:53:34 ◼ ► way i look at it and the way that many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3214">TS</a>]
00:53:36 ◼ ► other people have to look at it is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3216">TS</a>]
00:53:37 ◼ ► we want swift be the next big thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3217">TS</a>]
00:53:41 ◼ ► right we wanted to be more popular than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3221">TS</a>]
00:53:42 ◼ ► Java was or is we want to be more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3222">TS</a>]
00:53:45 ◼ ► popular than Python we want to be maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3225">TS</a>]
00:53:46 ◼ ► even more popular than see someday right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3226">TS</a>]
00:53:48 ◼ ► that's that would be a stretch but but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3228">TS</a>]
00:53:51 ◼ ► that would be great and so if if thats [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3231">TS</a>]
00:53:54 ◼ ► problem solved how do you solve that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3234">TS</a>]
00:53:55 ◼ ► problem well open source is a huge piece [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3235">TS</a>]
00:53:58 ◼ ► of that right without open-source it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3238">TS</a>]
00:53:59 ◼ ► not going to be available in other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3239">TS</a>]
00:54:00 ◼ ► people's platforms it's not gonna be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3240">TS</a>]
00:54:02 ◼ ► used in education and teaching as that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3242">TS</a>]
00:54:05 ◼ ► just not gonna happen and so open [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3245">TS</a>]
00:54:06 ◼ ► sources a major piece of that if you go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3246">TS</a>]
00:54:09 ◼ ► back farther before that Swift world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3249">TS</a>]
00:54:12 ◼ ► domination doesn't happen unless with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3252">TS</a>]
00:54:14 ◼ ► games relevance right and I think Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3254">TS</a>]
00:54:18 ◼ ► has nailed the relevance side of things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3258">TS</a>]
00:54:20 ◼ ► with the iOS and a platform development [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3260">TS</a>]
00:54:23 ◼ ► side of the story were you know maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3263">TS</a>]
00:54:27 ◼ ► not Marco but their new most people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3267">TS</a>]
00:54:29 ◼ ► pushing the Swift very quickly and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3269">TS</a>]
00:54:31 ◼ ► seemed very happy using actually i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3271">TS</a>]
00:54:34 ◼ ► okay good call i switch today in honor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3274">TS</a>]
00:54:37 ◼ ► of this interview and I wrote my first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3277">TS</a>]
00:54:39 ◼ ► Swift today in an entire extension and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3279">TS</a>]
00:54:42 ◼ ► overcast report was written Swift Wow a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3282">TS</a>]
00:54:45 ◼ ► fantastic you go up proud of you is it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3285">TS</a>]
00:54:48 ◼ ► yeah and more and more will be coming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3288">TS</a>]
00:54:50 ◼ ► although there's a lot of jealousy there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3290">TS</a>]
00:54:53 ◼ ► so i probably long way away from being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3293">TS</a>]
00:54:55 ◼ ► all Swift yeah well that's that's okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3295">TS</a>]
00:54:58 ◼ ► sweetie loves objective-c exactly the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3298">TS</a>]
00:55:01 ◼ ► way i look at it is that the first steps [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3301">TS</a>]
00:55:03 ◼ ► with world domination is getting to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3303">TS</a>]
00:55:05 ◼ ► relevance and 24 language gets relevance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3305">TS</a>]
00:55:08 ◼ ► that needs a killer app killer app right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3308">TS</a>]
00:55:10 ◼ ► needs a reason why people would want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3310">TS</a>]
00:55:12 ◼ ► use it and for swift that's clearly iOS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3312">TS</a>]
00:55:16 ◼ ► development it seconds be open source [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3316">TS</a>]
00:55:19 ◼ ► third it needs to go beyond right and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3319">TS</a>]
00:55:24 ◼ ► then the next the next step the frontier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3324">TS</a>]
00:55:27 ◼ ► where it makes sense to expand out to or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3327">TS</a>]
00:55:28 ◼ ► if you're no real time strategy game [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3328">TS</a>]
00:55:31 ◼ ► player the the natural expansion is is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3331">TS</a>]
00:55:33 ◼ ► a place where the language is where the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3333">TS</a>]
00:55:39 ◼ ► language actually only needs a few [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3339">TS</a>]
00:55:41 ◼ ► things added to it to be good and so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3341">TS</a>]
00:55:44 ◼ ► think switch server development is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3344">TS</a>]
00:55:45 ◼ ► really that next step because for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3345">TS</a>]
00:55:46 ◼ ► development is very similar to app [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3346">TS</a>]
00:55:48 ◼ ► development in terms of the kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3348">TS</a>]
00:55:49 ◼ ► code that you need to write it's very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3349">TS</a>]
00:55:51 ◼ ► similar terms of many of the frameworks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3351">TS</a>]
00:55:53 ◼ ► the major missing piece is that it needs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3353">TS</a>]
00:55:57 ◼ ► to run on linux and other pertinent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3357">TS</a>]
00:55:59 ◼ ► server development platforms in and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3359">TS</a>]
00:56:02 ◼ ► there's then the whole library ecosystem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3362">TS</a>]
00:56:06 ◼ ► and so I think that we're in right now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3366">TS</a>]
00:56:07 ◼ ► is we're in a really exciting phase [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3367">TS</a>]
00:56:09 ◼ ► where those platforms are being built [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3369">TS</a>]
00:56:12 ◼ ► those frameworks and different pieces of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3372">TS</a>]
00:56:15 ◼ ► infrastructure coming together and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3375">TS</a>]
00:56:17 ◼ ► that's that's really the idea behind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3377">TS</a>]
00:56:18 ◼ ► this with server working group that's an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3378">TS</a>]
00:56:21 ◼ ► official part of Swift org is getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3381">TS</a>]
00:56:22 ◼ ► all the people working in the space to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3382">TS</a>]
00:56:24 ◼ ► talk to each other and i'm very excited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3384">TS</a>]
00:56:26 ◼ ► about that i'm going beyond that though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3386">TS</a>]
00:56:29 ◼ ► you know it with the goal of being more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3389">TS</a>]
00:56:32 ◼ ► relevant than Java for example if we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3392">TS</a>]
00:56:34 ◼ ► going to pick on java is the dream of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3394">TS</a>]
00:56:38 ◼ ► Swift is to scale the way from scripting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3398">TS</a>]
00:56:41 ◼ ► language all the way down to low level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3401">TS</a>]
00:56:43 ◼ ► systems programming like you could write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3403">TS</a>]
00:56:45 ◼ ► a colonel in it or you write some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3405">TS</a>]
00:56:49 ◼ ► descripton side of it is maybe more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3409">TS</a>]
00:56:51 ◼ ► straightforward when when this the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3411">TS</a>]
00:56:54 ◼ ► community and the core team have time to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3414">TS</a>]
00:56:57 ◼ ► deal with it because they're talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3417">TS</a>]
00:56:58 ◼ ► about in integrating regular expressions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3418">TS</a>]
00:57:02 ◼ ► integrating multi-line string literals [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3422">TS</a>]
00:57:04 ◼ ► and integrating other other features [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3424">TS</a>]
00:57:07 ◼ ► scripting languages and those are big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3427">TS</a>]
00:57:10 ◼ ► projects but those are kind of well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3430">TS</a>]
00:57:13 ◼ ► known i guess and they will fit and drop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3433">TS</a>]
00:57:15 ◼ ► right into the existing existing system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3435">TS</a>]
00:57:19 ◼ ► the Swift provides systems programming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3439">TS</a>]
00:57:22 ◼ ► is I think the big the big next frontier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3442">TS</a>]
00:57:25 ◼ ► and I think that's where Swift can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3445">TS</a>]
00:57:27 ◼ ► really distinguish itself from java or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3447">TS</a>]
00:57:29 ◼ ► other other competitive languages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3449">TS</a>]
00:57:35 ◼ ► languages out there there's really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3455">TS</a>]
00:57:36 ◼ ► nothing that can unseat see your C++ [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3456">TS</a>]
00:57:42 ◼ ► interesting language but hasn't got a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3462">TS</a>]
00:57:43 ◼ ► lot of adoption yet and I think the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3463">TS</a>]
00:57:46 ◼ ► Swift is more interesting than rust and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3466">TS</a>]
00:57:48 ◼ ► some of the high-level application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3468">TS</a>]
00:57:50 ◼ ► demands but we'll see rust is a great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3470">TS</a>]
00:57:53 ◼ ► language as well and so I'm really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3473">TS</a>]
00:57:56 ◼ ► interested to see the swift for systems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3476">TS</a>]
00:57:59 ◼ ► programming work get going and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3479">TS</a>]
00:58:02 ◼ ► that would be a couple years out before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3482">TS</a>]
00:58:04 ◼ ► it really comes together but once it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3484">TS</a>]
00:58:05 ◼ ► does i think the Swift can be really be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3485">TS</a>]
00:58:09 ◼ ► the next big thing and I'm excited about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3489">TS</a>]
00:58:11 ◼ ► so just a second back a second to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3491">TS</a>]
00:58:14 ◼ ► server role of it you know possibly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3494">TS</a>]
00:58:16 ◼ ► taking over there like you know that i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3496">TS</a>]
00:58:18 ◼ ► would love like you know Here I am using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3498">TS</a>]
00:58:22 ◼ ► languages that are fairly old and I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3502">TS</a>]
00:58:24 ◼ ► PHP is way more hated than Jesse he but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3504">TS</a>]
00:58:27 ◼ ► but you know this is the two languages i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3507">TS</a>]
00:58:29 ◼ ► use for various historical and practical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3509">TS</a>]
00:58:32 ◼ ► reasons it on the server a lot of what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3512">TS</a>]
00:58:35 ◼ ► what makes a language succeed or fail on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3515">TS</a>]
00:58:39 ◼ ► servers and web development is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3519">TS</a>]
00:58:41 ◼ ► necessarily how good of a language it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3521">TS</a>]
00:58:43 ◼ ► but how how healthy and universal and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3523">TS</a>]
00:58:48 ◼ ► develop the framework surrounded r44 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3528">TS</a>]
00:58:52 ◼ ► practical and easy it is to deploy and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3532">TS</a>]
00:58:54 ◼ ► run on servers so you know Swiss being a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3534">TS</a>]
00:58:58 ◼ ► being its own good language that alone I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3538">TS</a>]
00:59:02 ◼ ► don't think is enough to get it to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3542">TS</a>]
00:59:04 ◼ ► traction on the server do like do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3544">TS</a>]
00:59:06 ◼ ► think is it necessary for the Swift team [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3546">TS</a>]
00:59:10 ◼ ► like the the core group who's running [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3550">TS</a>]
00:59:13 ◼ ► Swift whether that's Apple or the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3553">TS</a>]
00:59:15 ◼ ► community of contributors with apple or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3555">TS</a>]
00:59:17 ◼ ► whatever else is important for them to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3557">TS</a>]
00:59:20 ◼ ► develop and and kind of make official an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3560">TS</a>]
00:59:25 ◼ ► frameworks and libraries and tools or do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3565">TS</a>]
00:59:29 ◼ ► you think it's sufficient to take the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3569">TS</a>]
00:59:31 ◼ ► risk to let the community do that but at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3571">TS</a>]
00:59:33 ◼ ► the risk of fragmentation and maybe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3573">TS</a>]
00:59:35 ◼ ► nothing ever taking off also less [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3575">TS</a>]
00:59:38 ◼ ► interesting question and keep in mind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3578">TS</a>]
00:59:40 ◼ ► that i don't have a lot of practical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3580">TS</a>]
00:59:42 ◼ ► experience building server apps so this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3582">TS</a>]
00:59:45 ◼ ► my my my my opinion based on talking to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3585">TS</a>]
00:59:49 ◼ ► other smart people so the approach this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3589">TS</a>]
00:59:52 ◼ ► with projects taking is looking to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3592">TS</a>]
00:59:54 ◼ ► standardize what's colloquially but not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3594">TS</a>]
00:59:57 ◼ ► correctly known as a server foundation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3597">TS</a>]
00:59:57 ◼ ► correctly known as a server foundation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3597">TS</a>]
01:00:00 ◼ ► kind of technologies so it will not be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3600">TS</a>]
01:00:02 ◼ ► named for foundation but that kind of an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3602">TS</a>]
01:00:05 ◼ ► idea and so take the encryption the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3605">TS</a>]
01:00:07 ◼ ► network transport the HTTP kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3607">TS</a>]
01:00:09 ◼ ► things that that everybody needs for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3609">TS</a>]
01:00:12 ◼ ► server technologies and standardized [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3612">TS</a>]
01:00:14 ◼ ► that as part of this project but at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3614">TS</a>]
01:00:16 ◼ ► least in the short term not look to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3616">TS</a>]
01:00:18 ◼ ► standardize a specific web framework [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3618">TS</a>]
01:00:20 ◼ ► because they're half dozen different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3620">TS</a>]
01:00:21 ◼ ► completely different approaches that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3621">TS</a>]
01:00:24 ◼ ► interesting different different kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3624">TS</a>]
01:00:25 ◼ ► demands and I don't think there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3625">TS</a>]
01:00:28 ◼ ► clear winner yet it's possible that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3628">TS</a>]
01:00:30 ◼ ► after the first few rounds shake out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3630">TS</a>]
01:00:32 ◼ ► there will be an equivalent you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3632">TS</a>]
01:00:35 ◼ ► ruby-on-rails kind of dominant pattern [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3635">TS</a>]
01:00:37 ◼ ► and a framework that emerges and if so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3637">TS</a>]
01:00:41 ◼ ► then maybe that would make sense but I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3641">TS</a>]
01:00:43 ◼ ► don't think it don't think Swift needs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3643">TS</a>]
01:00:45 ◼ ► for there to be a winner the high level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3645">TS</a>]
01:00:47 ◼ ► as far as what can the Swift core [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3647">TS</a>]
01:00:51 ◼ ► language and language and compiler folks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3651">TS</a>]
01:00:55 ◼ ► I think there's really two things one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3655">TS</a>]
01:00:57 ◼ ► which is this what package manager I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3657">TS</a>]
01:00:59 ◼ ► think the package manager is really key [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3659">TS</a>]
01:01:01 ◼ ► to scaling out the ecosystem and getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3661">TS</a>]
01:01:04 ◼ ► people to work together with the common [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3664">TS</a>]
01:01:08 ◼ ► ecosystem it's also the best and i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3668">TS</a>]
01:01:11 ◼ ► only way to build swift code on linux [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3671">TS</a>]
01:01:12 ◼ ► and out and other platforms they don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3672">TS</a>]
01:01:15 ◼ ► mean to single out linux it's just it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3675">TS</a>]
01:01:17 ◼ ► the biggest server development one so i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3677">TS</a>]
01:01:21 ◼ ► think that's a big piece i think the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3681">TS</a>]
01:01:22 ◼ ► other piece that there will be really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3682">TS</a>]
01:01:24 ◼ ► amazing is when the concurrency model [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3684">TS</a>]
01:01:26 ◼ ► comes up because i think that's one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3686">TS</a>]
01:01:27 ◼ ► the reasons that makes go particularly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3687">TS</a>]
01:01:30 ◼ ► compelling for server development is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3690">TS</a>]
01:01:32 ◼ ► that has really well developed story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3692">TS</a>]
01:01:34 ◼ ► there along with all the libraries to go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3694">TS</a>]
01:01:37 ◼ ► development and so when the pieces the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3697">TS</a>]
01:01:40 ◼ ► concurrency model's start coming up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3700">TS</a>]
01:01:41 ◼ ► which will probably the first pieces [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3701">TS</a>]
01:01:43 ◼ ► will ship in Swift five is my guess that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3703">TS</a>]
01:01:46 ◼ ► will make swift and even more compelling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3706">TS</a>]
01:01:48 ◼ ► can answer for that kind of space but i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3708">TS</a>]
01:01:52 ◼ ► don't think i don't think we need a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3712">TS</a>]
01:01:54 ◼ ► server language feature and that's what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3714">TS</a>]
01:01:57 ◼ ► so going to the other extreme from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3717">TS</a>]
01:02:00 ◼ ► server-side scripting to gain back the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3720">TS</a>]
01:02:03 ◼ ► systems programming one thing I've seen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3723">TS</a>]
01:02:05 ◼ ► related to this and and i think this all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3725">TS</a>]
01:02:09 ◼ ► with this quote from the original apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3729">TS</a>]
01:02:11 ◼ ► Swift book that Swift was designed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3731">TS</a>]
01:02:13 ◼ ► scale from hello world to an entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3733">TS</a>]
01:02:15 ◼ ► operating system like that that it's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3735">TS</a>]
01:02:17 ◼ ► world domination plan was there from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3737">TS</a>]
01:02:18 ◼ ► beginning right yep you know absolutely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3738">TS</a>]
01:02:20 ◼ ► in the first paragraph of the thing when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3740">TS</a>]
01:02:23 ◼ ► I talk to people now about swift as a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3743">TS</a>]
01:02:27 ◼ ► systems language often wanna hear is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3747">TS</a>]
01:02:30 ◼ ► people relating the ways that is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3750">TS</a>]
01:02:34 ◼ ► ready to be a systems language yet which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3754">TS</a>]
01:02:36 ◼ ► is you know what you just talked about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3756">TS</a>]
01:02:37 ◼ ► but then deciding based on that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3757">TS</a>]
01:02:40 ◼ ► because it's not ready to be a systems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3760">TS</a>]
01:02:42 ◼ ► language now it never will and then they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3762">TS</a>]
01:02:44 ◼ ► dismiss it like other words like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3764">TS</a>]
01:02:46 ◼ ► may have been the plan but clearly were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3766">TS</a>]
01:02:50 ◼ ► reasons x y&z I you still have to you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3770">TS</a>]
01:02:52 ◼ ► see for this therefore Swift is just a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3772">TS</a>]
01:02:54 ◼ ► way to ride my apps for iOS and mac OS [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3774">TS</a>]
01:02:57 ◼ ► and how I mean I'm not sure what you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3777">TS</a>]
01:03:01 ◼ ► do with it but do you think about how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3781">TS</a>]
01:03:04 ◼ ► how to change perception as the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3784">TS</a>]
01:03:07 ◼ ► its older and its old age now it's up to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3787">TS</a>]
01:03:10 ◼ ► it starts at you know that that I nobody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3790">TS</a>]
01:03:12 ◼ ► puts whipped in the corner like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3792">TS</a>]
01:03:13 ◼ ► that people think they know people think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3793">TS</a>]
01:03:16 ◼ ► they know what Swift is and they say was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3796">TS</a>]
01:03:17 ◼ ► this language it does this thing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3797">TS</a>]
01:03:19 ◼ ► that your plans for world domination may [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3799">TS</a>]
01:03:21 ◼ ► be thwarted by the idea that people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3801">TS</a>]
01:03:23 ◼ ► pigeonholing language because it's been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3803">TS</a>]
01:03:24 ◼ ► around for a few years and I think they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3804">TS</a>]
01:03:25 ◼ ► know it took that you're onto something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3805">TS</a>]
01:03:27 ◼ ► I think that's real problem i don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3807">TS</a>]
01:03:29 ◼ ► think systems programming is the place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3809">TS</a>]
01:03:30 ◼ ► where that's a problem yet though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3810">TS</a>]
01:03:31 ◼ ► because if I don't think it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3811">TS</a>]
01:03:34 ◼ ► reasonable for me as a crazy man going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3814">TS</a>]
01:03:37 ◼ ► around saying swift swift will someday [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3817">TS</a>]
01:03:39 ◼ ► do systems programming really well you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3819">TS</a>]
01:03:41 ◼ ► should you should remember that I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3821">TS</a>]
01:03:43 ◼ ► think that's that's a good way to spend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3823">TS</a>]
01:03:44 ◼ ► time at the moment when it does that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3824">TS</a>]
01:03:47 ◼ ► then the question becomes how do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3827">TS</a>]
01:03:49 ◼ ► make that make people aware of that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3829">TS</a>]
01:03:53 ◼ ► how do you get get people to change [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3833">TS</a>]
01:03:55 ◼ ► their prior misconception but at that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3835">TS</a>]
01:03:57 ◼ ► point I'm you can a very practical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3837">TS</a>]
01:03:59 ◼ ► look you can do this and this is so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3839">TS</a>]
01:04:00 ◼ ► great and now you get all the advantages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3840">TS</a>]
01:04:02 ◼ ► to see but it's safe then you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3842">TS</a>]
01:04:04 ◼ ► point to specific reasons why it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3844">TS</a>]
01:04:06 ◼ ► better so I'm not too worried about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3846">TS</a>]
01:04:11 ◼ ► programming but i think there is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3851">TS</a>]
01:04:12 ◼ ► practical from today which is Swift is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3852">TS</a>]
01:04:16 ◼ ► open-source the Apple development [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3856">TS</a>]
01:04:19 ◼ ► community knows what very well but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3859">TS</a>]
01:04:22 ◼ ► much everybody else doesn't right and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3862">TS</a>]
01:04:30 ◼ ► developer just to continue talking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3870">TS</a>]
01:04:32 ◼ ► linux they all perceived Swift as being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3872">TS</a>]
01:04:35 ◼ ► an apple thing and only relevant to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3875">TS</a>]
01:04:37 ◼ ► apple platforms and they don't even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3877">TS</a>]
01:04:39 ◼ ► learn about it right and so I think that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3879">TS</a>]
01:04:42 ◼ ► there is an interesting challenge there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3882">TS</a>]
01:04:45 ◼ ► and probably the best way to do that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3885">TS</a>]
01:04:47 ◼ ► for deep existing communities to keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3887">TS</a>]
01:04:51 ◼ ► just growing and as this switch on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3891">TS</a>]
01:04:54 ◼ ► server community grows and more and more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3894">TS</a>]
01:04:56 ◼ ► people are successful building and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3896">TS</a>]
01:04:58 ◼ ► deploying server after and Swift i hope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3898">TS</a>]
01:05:01 ◼ ► that naturally more people will become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3901">TS</a>]
01:05:02 ◼ ► aware of that effort will will then find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3902">TS</a>]
01:05:06 ◼ ► out about Swift maybe try it out find [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3906">TS</a>]
01:05:09 ◼ ► out that it's actually really great and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3909">TS</a>]
01:05:10 ◼ ► if it's not really great let us know so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3910">TS</a>]
01:05:14 ◼ ► problems are and then just kind of grow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3914">TS</a>]
01:05:16 ◼ ► out but i'm i'm actually perfectly okay [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3916">TS</a>]
01:05:19 ◼ ► with the growing a little bit slower [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3919">TS</a>]
01:05:20 ◼ ► than it has been so John asked about you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3920">TS</a>]
01:05:26 ◼ ► low-level systems programming and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3926">TS</a>]
01:05:27 ◼ ► high-level applications programming i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3927">TS</a>]
01:05:29 ◼ ► also curious that it seems like 15 / [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3929">TS</a>]
01:05:32 ◼ ► Apple have have presented Swift as not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3932">TS</a>]
01:05:35 ◼ ► only spanning that wide range which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3935">TS</a>]
01:05:37 ◼ ► seems impossible but also spanning a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3937">TS</a>]
01:05:40 ◼ ► wide range of skill levels of programmer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3940">TS</a>]
01:05:42 ◼ ► so you know there's there's the Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3942">TS</a>]
01:05:44 ◼ ► playgrounds up an ipad where you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3944">TS</a>]
01:05:45 ◼ ► total novices writing Swift as their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3945">TS</a>]
01:05:47 ◼ ► first language all the way up to people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3947">TS</a>]
01:05:50 ◼ ► writing like you know systems-level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3950">TS</a>]
01:05:51 ◼ ► things and and complicated apps you were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3951">TS</a>]
01:05:54 ◼ ► very experienced programmers it do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3954">TS</a>]
01:05:59 ◼ ► language to do all of these things well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3959">TS</a>]
01:06:07 ◼ ► possible i think it has achieved it for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3967">TS</a>]
01:06:10 ◼ ► the things that is doing so far and i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3970">TS</a>]
01:06:14 ◼ ► capabilities get added that it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3974">TS</a>]
01:06:17 ◼ ► but knowing knowing the the folks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3977">TS</a>]
01:06:19 ◼ ► involved and the source compatibility [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3979">TS</a>]
01:06:21 ◼ ► guarantees and everything else like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3981">TS</a>]
01:06:22 ◼ ► i'm pretty sure that won't be a problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3982">TS</a>]
01:06:25 ◼ ► here's the way I look at swift you'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3985">TS</a>]
01:06:28 ◼ ► never you're unlikely to run to anybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3988">TS</a>]
01:06:31 ◼ ► that says Swift is a simple language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3991">TS</a>]
01:06:35 ◼ ► so it is a complicated language it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3995">TS</a>]
01:06:36 ◼ ► simple in the sense that scheme is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3996">TS</a>]
01:06:38 ◼ ► simple for example it's also not simple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/3998">TS</a>]
01:06:41 ◼ ► in terms of way talk to Jesse developer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4001">TS</a>]
01:06:44 ◼ ► that the law claim that objective c is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4004">TS</a>]
01:06:46 ◼ ► simple ignoring all the sea parts i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4006">TS</a>]
01:06:48 ◼ ► would never claim that for the record [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4008">TS</a>]
01:06:50 ◼ ► alright so see itself as it is a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4010">TS</a>]
01:06:53 ◼ ► complicated weird language is just that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4013">TS</a>]
01:06:55 ◼ ► people don't typically use the weird [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4015">TS</a>]
01:06:57 ◼ ► part right and so that perceives he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4017">TS</a>]
01:07:00 ◼ ► being very simple the so the way the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4020">TS</a>]
01:07:05 ◼ ► the way i project the Sun Swift is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4025">TS</a>]
01:07:07 ◼ ► the the secret to Swift and being easy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4027">TS</a>]
01:07:10 ◼ ► to learn easy to use as a teaching [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4030">TS</a>]
01:07:13 ◼ ► vehicle but also powerful enough to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4033">TS</a>]
01:07:16 ◼ ► solve the problems that need to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4036">TS</a>]
01:07:17 ◼ ► solved is that the complexities inherent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4037">TS</a>]
01:07:21 ◼ ► progressively disclosed so imagine that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4041">TS</a>]
01:07:24 ◼ ► someday Swift had inline assembly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4044">TS</a>]
01:07:25 ◼ ► support for example only really low [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4045">TS</a>]
01:07:28 ◼ ► level systems people are really bit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4048">TS</a>]
01:07:30 ◼ ► twiddling assembly programmers would use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4050">TS</a>]
01:07:32 ◼ ► this feature everybody else would ignore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4052">TS</a>]
01:07:35 ◼ ► apparent complexity to language of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4055">TS</a>]
01:07:37 ◼ ► language to people who didn't know it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4057">TS</a>]
01:07:39 ◼ ► was for feature like that the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4059">TS</a>]
01:07:40 ◼ ► important thing is to make the syntax [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4060">TS</a>]
01:07:42 ◼ ► clear so that when you run up into it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4062">TS</a>]
01:07:45 ◼ ► you discovered about this code you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4065">TS</a>]
01:07:47 ◼ ► that you don't know what it does right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4067">TS</a>]
01:07:50 ◼ ► and so you say oh that's interesting i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4070">TS</a>]
01:07:52 ◼ ► don't know what that is and then you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4072">TS</a>]
01:07:56 ◼ ► stackoverflow oracle whatever it is they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4076">TS</a>]
01:07:59 ◼ ► explain what this is to me and then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4079">TS</a>]
01:08:00 ◼ ► can say okay I get it and either care I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4080">TS</a>]
01:08:02 ◼ ► don't but at that point I'm you can then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4082">TS</a>]
01:08:04 ◼ ► dive in and and learn and learn more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4084">TS</a>]
01:08:07 ◼ ► assembly is never something that a swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4087">TS</a>]
01:08:10 ◼ ► playgrounds person working through 12 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4090">TS</a>]
01:08:12 ◼ ► code 3 would ever want to know about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4092">TS</a>]
01:08:13 ◼ ► right and and i think that is really the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4093">TS</a>]
01:08:16 ◼ ► this one of the secrets to Swift's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4096">TS</a>]
01:08:19 ◼ ► success in terms of getting people on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4099">TS</a>]
01:08:21 ◼ ► board and and being really approachable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4101">TS</a>]
01:08:23 ◼ ► for people at all levels is that just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4103">TS</a>]
01:08:26 ◼ ► like in Python you can start with just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4106">TS</a>]
01:08:28 ◼ ► print hello world you could do the exact [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4108">TS</a>]
01:08:30 ◼ ► same thing and Swift and Swift you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4110">TS</a>]
01:08:32 ◼ ► need the / end on the string it's really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4112">TS</a>]
01:08:35 ◼ ► just print hello world and from there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4115">TS</a>]
01:08:38 ◼ ► you can introduce the concepts you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4118">TS</a>]
01:08:40 ◼ ► grow it out over time and this really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4120">TS</a>]
01:08:43 ◼ ► understand either the syntax language or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4123">TS</a>]
01:08:46 ◼ ► the conceptual programming things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4126">TS</a>]
01:08:49 ◼ ► they're learning as i go and the design [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4129">TS</a>]
01:08:52 ◼ ► of Swift is really geared around that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4132">TS</a>]
01:08:54 ◼ ► and so what that means if you project on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4134">TS</a>]
01:08:57 ◼ ► comparing Swift to rest for example I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4137">TS</a>]
01:09:00 ◼ ► think it's very likely that swill get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4140">TS</a>]
01:09:02 ◼ ► features for memory ownership control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4142">TS</a>]
01:09:05 ◼ ► which will allow really really high [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4145">TS</a>]
01:09:08 ◼ ► performance allow solving performance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4148">TS</a>]
01:09:10 ◼ ► problems with arc for example but unlike [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4150">TS</a>]
01:09:13 ◼ ► rust we can't make that be a core part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4153">TS</a>]
01:09:15 ◼ ► of the type system that everybody has to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4155">TS</a>]
01:09:18 ◼ ► sufficiently smart programmers when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4158">TS</a>]
01:09:21 ◼ ► they're solving a specific performance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4161">TS</a>]
01:09:22 ◼ ► problem and abusing or an embedded [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4162">TS</a>]
01:09:26 ◼ ► Colonel programmer might want to use but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4166">TS</a>]
01:09:28 ◼ ► an application developer can completely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4168">TS</a>]
01:09:32 ◼ ► challenges its deploying similar type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4172">TS</a>]
01:09:35 ◼ ► system mechanics and other low-level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4175">TS</a>]
01:09:37 ◼ ► language geekery to the problem but do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4177">TS</a>]
01:09:40 ◼ ► so in a way that is tasteful and allows [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4180">TS</a>]
01:09:42 ◼ ► most normal people to just completely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4182">TS</a>]
01:09:46 ◼ ► kind of reminds me of saying I once [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4186">TS</a>]
01:09:49 ◼ ► respective you would like which is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4189">TS</a>]
01:09:51 ◼ ► making things easy and make hard things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4191">TS</a>]
01:09:53 ◼ ► possible we sponsor tonight by audible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4193">TS</a>]
01:09:56 ◼ ► with an unmatched election of audiobooks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4196">TS</a>]
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01:11:11 ◼ ► ATP thanks to audible for sponsoring our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4271">TS</a>]
01:11:14 ◼ ► show so Chris you brought up just a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4274">TS</a>]
01:11:20 ◼ ► second ago how simple pythons hello [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4280">TS</a>]
01:11:22 ◼ ► world is and one of the things I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4282">TS</a>]
01:11:25 ◼ ► wondered about Swift is it seems to some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4285">TS</a>]
01:11:28 ◼ ► degree like it's kind of what we call it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4288">TS</a>]
01:11:31 ◼ ► the Rorschach test of languages in that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4291">TS</a>]
01:11:33 ◼ ► I came to Swift a sort of its kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4293">TS</a>]
01:11:36 ◼ ► the objective-c but but my day job with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4296">TS</a>]
01:11:39 ◼ ► it was a c-sharp guy and I see to my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4299">TS</a>]
01:11:41 ◼ ► eyes anyway and i hope you don't find it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4301">TS</a>]
01:11:43 ◼ ► insulting but I feel a lot of C sharp i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4303">TS</a>]
01:11:45 ◼ ► see a lot of C sharp and Swift and I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4305">TS</a>]
01:11:47 ◼ ► heard javascript people again I hope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4307">TS</a>]
01:11:48 ◼ ► that's insulting say oh I see some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4308">TS</a>]
01:11:50 ◼ ► javascript in here and I presume that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4310">TS</a>]
01:11:52 ◼ ► John could say that that he sees pearl [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4312">TS</a>]
01:11:54 ◼ ► and I presume Marco could say that he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4314">TS</a>]
01:11:55 ◼ ► sees PHP in it but hopefully that's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4315">TS</a>]
01:11:57 ◼ ► an icy go and I don't see any PHP didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4317">TS</a>]
01:12:00 ◼ ► know you get what I'm driving at though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4320">TS</a>]
01:12:02 ◼ ► and so so i guess what i'm asking chris [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4322">TS</a>]
01:12:05 ◼ ► is obviously there's a huge objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4325">TS</a>]
01:12:07 ◼ ► influence and Swift but was there anyone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4327">TS</a>]
01:12:11 ◼ ► languages that you feel really really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4331">TS</a>]
01:12:13 ◼ ► inspired swiftor do you really think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4333">TS</a>]
01:12:15 ◼ ► it's that it's the melting pot language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4335">TS</a>]
01:12:17 ◼ ► that one would always hope to create my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4337">TS</a>]
01:12:20 ◼ ► finger really is a melting pot because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4340">TS</a>]
01:12:21 ◼ ► we weren't so the goal Swift isn't 28 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4341">TS</a>]
01:12:25 ◼ ► some other language is to just be great [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4345">TS</a>]
01:12:28 ◼ ► right right and so you can take I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4348">TS</a>]
01:12:31 ◼ ► that Swift looks or I and the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4351">TS</a>]
01:12:34 ◼ ► people in the core team the other people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4354">TS</a>]
01:12:35 ◼ ► working working on swift have looked at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4355">TS</a>]
01:12:38 ◼ ► many many other languages and if you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4358">TS</a>]
01:12:40 ◼ ► asking nerd there's tons of Pascal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4360">TS</a>]
01:12:42 ◼ ► concepts built-in protocols really are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4362">TS</a>]
01:12:45 ◼ ► just like very similar Haskell cons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4365">TS</a>]
01:12:47 ◼ ► constructor for example it's really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4367">TS</a>]
01:12:51 ◼ ► about taking the best ideas from where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4371">TS</a>]
01:12:53 ◼ ► we can get and assembling them together [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4373">TS</a>]
01:12:55 ◼ ► and one of the major goals Swift is for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4375">TS</a>]
01:12:57 ◼ ► to be familiar feeling right because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4377">TS</a>]
01:13:00 ◼ ► it's familiar with familiar feeling that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4380">TS</a>]
01:13:02 ◼ ► makes it easier for people to pick up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4382">TS</a>]
01:13:06 ◼ ► unnecessary barriers to just get in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4386">TS</a>]
01:13:09 ◼ ► way of adoption and so it being familiar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4389">TS</a>]
01:13:11 ◼ ► is actually success in that way and this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4391">TS</a>]
01:13:15 ◼ ► is not it is not a result of Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4395">TS</a>]
01:13:18 ◼ ► trying to be go or C sharp or whatever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4398">TS</a>]
01:13:21 ◼ ► it's about taking the best ideas from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4401">TS</a>]
01:13:23 ◼ ► them and assembling them together and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4403">TS</a>]
01:13:25 ◼ ► think that you could probably pick a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4405">TS</a>]
01:13:27 ◼ ► language and there's some some good idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4407">TS</a>]
01:13:29 ◼ ► that came from them including you know d [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4409">TS</a>]
01:13:32 ◼ ► or dark or go or whatever I mean Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4412">TS</a>]
01:13:38 ◼ ► different sources and it's really hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4418">TS</a>]
01:13:40 ◼ ► to to really small out so the question [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4420">TS</a>]
01:13:45 ◼ ► that Casey wrote for me to ask you right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4425">TS</a>]
01:13:47 ◼ ► now LOL how do you know that was me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4427">TS</a>]
01:13:50 ◼ ► that's definitely you is why should I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4430">TS</a>]
01:13:53 ◼ ► give a shit about Swift right now and i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4433">TS</a>]
01:13:55 ◼ ► think im gonna modify the selected that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4435">TS</a>]
01:13:58 ◼ ► was written it was written for you my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4438">TS</a>]
01:14:00 ◼ ► friend but yes that is how I you right i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4440">TS</a>]
01:14:04 ◼ ► no butBut I I you know as as somebody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4444">TS</a>]
01:14:07 ◼ ► who is just dipping a toe and Swift you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4447">TS</a>]
01:14:10 ◼ ► know as of 12 hours ago you know it has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4450">TS</a>]
01:14:13 ◼ ► waited this long you know just to see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4453">TS</a>]
01:14:15 ◼ ► faithful / hold out / lazy people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4455">TS</a>]
01:14:18 ◼ ► don't learn new things very quickly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4458">TS</a>]
01:14:20 ◼ ► what's kinda like the sales pitch for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4460">TS</a>]
01:14:21 ◼ ► for adopting swift now I'm I guess two [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4461">TS</a>]
01:14:26 ◼ ► different answers 1 which is you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4466">TS</a>]
01:14:28 ◼ ► have to stop Swift right and I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4468">TS</a>]
01:14:30 ◼ ► think objective-c is going to go away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4470">TS</a>]
01:14:32 ◼ ► Apple sports c and c++ and it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4472">TS</a>]
01:14:35 ◼ ► have any specific data there's no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4475">TS</a>]
01:14:38 ◼ ► obvious benefit of dropping objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4478">TS</a>]
01:14:39 ◼ ► as well as obviously they have a ton of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4479">TS</a>]
01:14:42 ◼ ► objective-c code themselves so I i don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4482">TS</a>]
01:14:44 ◼ ► think that there's any reason you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4484">TS</a>]
01:14:47 ◼ ► to adopt swift swift just tries to be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4487">TS</a>]
01:14:50 ◼ ► better answer so that you'll want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4490">TS</a>]
01:14:52 ◼ ► adopt it and in terms of Y Swift in its [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4492">TS</a>]
01:14:57 ◼ ► name kind of his connotes a whole bunch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4497">TS</a>]
01:15:00 ◼ ► performance but really to me the most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4500">TS</a>]
01:15:03 ◼ ► important aspect of it is programmer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4503">TS</a>]
01:15:04 ◼ ► productivity right the the idea that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4504">TS</a>]
01:15:06 ◼ ► Swift is really optimizing for is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4506">TS</a>]
01:15:08 ◼ ► letting you pound out the code as fast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4508">TS</a>]
01:15:11 ◼ ► it really is designed and optimized for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4511">TS</a>]
01:15:14 ◼ ► as a programmer you can spend the least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4514">TS</a>]
01:15:16 ◼ ► amount of time to get to a working [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4516">TS</a>]
01:15:19 ◼ ► as fast as possible right and so getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4519">TS</a>]
01:15:22 ◼ ► to working program includes the time it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4522">TS</a>]
01:15:23 ◼ ► takes to debug something includes the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4523">TS</a>]
01:15:25 ◼ ► time it takes to iterate and develop and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4525">TS</a>]
01:15:28 ◼ ► fight the type system and all the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4528">TS</a>]
01:15:29 ◼ ► things that you have to do but that time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4529">TS</a>]
01:15:33 ◼ ► you spend having to fight the type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4533">TS</a>]
01:15:35 ◼ ► system or figure out optionals or things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4535">TS</a>]
01:15:37 ◼ ► like that pays itself back because your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4537">TS</a>]
01:15:39 ◼ ► program works more often and so you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4539">TS</a>]
01:15:41 ◼ ► actually not spending time chasing down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4541">TS</a>]
01:15:43 ◼ ► dangling pointer bugs or you know and in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4543">TS</a>]
01:15:47 ◼ ► the case of objective-c you get an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4547">TS</a>]
01:15:49 ◼ ► unrecognized selector air you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4549">TS</a>]
01:15:51 ◼ ► whatever whatever those kinds of bugs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4551">TS</a>]
01:15:53 ◼ ► are and swift rise to help you by the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4553">TS</a>]
01:15:56 ◼ ► language guiding you and helping design [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4556">TS</a>]
01:15:58 ◼ ► things so it also has a lot of things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4558">TS</a>]
01:16:00 ◼ ► that just make common things easier [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4560">TS</a>]
01:16:02 ◼ ► so you can switch on a string for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4562">TS</a>]
01:16:04 ◼ ► example and then match the different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4564">TS</a>]
01:16:05 ◼ ► cases you can use enums which are a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4565">TS</a>]
01:16:08 ◼ ► super genomes or just from the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4568">TS</a>]
01:16:12 ◼ ► geekery world is just algebraic data [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4572">TS</a>]
01:16:13 ◼ ► types there are tons of different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4573">TS</a>]
01:16:16 ◼ ► they're not novel by any means but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4576">TS</a>]
01:16:18 ◼ ► they're so useful and they solve so many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4578">TS</a>]
01:16:21 ◼ ► problems out of the box and just having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4581">TS</a>]
01:16:24 ◼ ► your fingertips is great so there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4584">TS</a>]
01:16:25 ◼ ► there's a lot of things about Swift and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4585">TS</a>]
01:16:27 ◼ ► probably depends on who you are what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4587">TS</a>]
01:16:29 ◼ ► your experiences are one of the problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4589">TS</a>]
01:16:31 ◼ ► I've seen with people moving from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4591">TS</a>]
01:16:32 ◼ ► objective-c Swift initially is that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4592">TS</a>]
01:16:34 ◼ ► tend to write swiftcode just like they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4594">TS</a>]
01:16:36 ◼ ► wrote objective-c and while that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4596">TS</a>]
01:16:38 ◼ ► really good way to make a migraine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4598">TS</a>]
01:16:41 ◼ ► application / or to get familiar Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4601">TS</a>]
01:16:43 ◼ ► it really means that you're missing a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4603">TS</a>]
01:16:45 ◼ ► lot of the value and Swift and and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4605">TS</a>]
01:16:48 ◼ ► think that that's okay it's just it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4608">TS</a>]
01:16:50 ◼ ► means that you know an objective secret [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4610">TS</a>]
01:16:52 ◼ ► and we're going to swift first starts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4612">TS</a>]
01:16:54 ◼ ► out by saying I don't see what the big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4614">TS</a>]
01:16:56 ◼ ► and only after they spend some time and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4616">TS</a>]
01:16:58 ◼ ► do they start to realize that they are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4618">TS</a>]
01:17:00 ◼ ► more productive they do feel better they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4620">TS</a>]
01:17:02 ◼ ► reach for things that they otherwise [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4622">TS</a>]
01:17:04 ◼ ► wouldn't have and I think it's really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4624">TS</a>]
01:17:07 ◼ ► interesting to talk to people that have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4627">TS</a>]
01:17:09 ◼ ► done for example your Swift programming [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4629">TS</a>]
01:17:10 ◼ ► but then have to go back to objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4630">TS</a>]
01:17:12 ◼ ► and to me that's all been there that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4632">TS</a>]
01:17:14 ◼ ► that's the really interesting and so it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4634">TS</a>]
01:17:16 ◼ ► was your experience it felt absolutely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4636">TS</a>]
01:17:19 ◼ ► archaic in a granted on and I like to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4639">TS</a>]
01:17:22 ◼ ► think of myself as a nice guy and so I'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4642">TS</a>]
01:17:23 ◼ ► probably say something like that even if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4643">TS</a>]
01:17:24 ◼ ► it wasn't true but the reality situation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4644">TS</a>]
01:17:26 ◼ ► is it felt just so old it just felt old [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4646">TS</a>]
01:17:32 ◼ ► i wish i could quantify that better but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4652">TS</a>]
01:17:35 ◼ ► it just felt like I was back in time in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4655">TS</a>]
01:17:38 ◼ ► a way that didn't feel good in something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4658">TS</a>]
01:17:40 ◼ ► like in some ways it was kind of nice so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4660">TS</a>]
01:17:42 ◼ ► I i do like optionals I understand why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4662">TS</a>]
01:17:46 ◼ ► their thing I i I'm all in on it but at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4666">TS</a>]
01:17:50 ◼ ► the same time there are times when I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4670">TS</a>]
01:17:51 ◼ ► have to do a guard ladder whatever the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4671">TS</a>]
01:17:52 ◼ ► case may be that a real right that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4672">TS</a>]
01:17:53 ◼ ► really would just like to move on with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4673">TS</a>]
01:17:55 ◼ ► my life and so not having to worry just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4675">TS</a>]
01:17:58 ◼ ► being being able to be a little more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4678">TS</a>]
01:18:00 ◼ ► cavalier was kind of nice but the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4680">TS</a>]
01:18:03 ◼ ► reality of the situation is as usual as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4683">TS</a>]
01:18:04 ◼ ► you said earlier is that that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4684">TS</a>]
01:18:06 ◼ ► potential hazard down the road and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4686">TS</a>]
01:18:08 ◼ ► that's why i like the way that that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4688">TS</a>]
01:18:10 ◼ ► and the team of have set up the type [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4690">TS</a>]
01:18:12 ◼ ► system and Swift but gosh going back to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4692">TS</a>]
01:18:14 ◼ ► objective-c is so frustrating for me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4694">TS</a>]
01:18:17 ◼ ► because it just feels like I'm going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4697">TS</a>]
01:18:18 ◼ ► back in time like I'm going backwards [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4698">TS</a>]
01:18:21 ◼ ► yeah and i think that the challenge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4701">TS</a>]
01:18:23 ◼ ► that's what faces because this focus is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4703">TS</a>]
01:18:25 ◼ ► on building you know programs that work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4705">TS</a>]
01:18:28 ◼ ► and that can be maintained and all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4708">TS</a>]
01:18:30 ◼ ► other things that we care about for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4710">TS</a>]
01:18:32 ◼ ► large-scale software it's maybe not the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4712">TS</a>]
01:18:35 ◼ ► best solution for I want to pound out a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4715">TS</a>]
01:18:38 ◼ ► quick script use it once and then throw [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4718">TS</a>]
01:18:41 ◼ ► it away right because in that case you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4721">TS</a>]
01:18:43 ◼ ► don't care about maintenance you you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4723">TS</a>]
01:18:45 ◼ ► fit all the code in your head you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4725">TS</a>]
01:18:46 ◼ ► care about good occupation of the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4726">TS</a>]
01:18:49 ◼ ► things that Swift encourages and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4729">TS</a>]
01:18:52 ◼ ► that's the case we're having a dynamic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4732">TS</a>]
01:18:55 ◼ ► liberating and so you know maybe that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4735">TS</a>]
01:18:59 ◼ ► will be a challenge for some people but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4739">TS</a>]
01:19:01 ◼ ► i think that as with games ecosystem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4741">TS</a>]
01:19:03 ◼ ► against libraries its other advantages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4743">TS</a>]
01:19:06 ◼ ► will be so great that hopefully it will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4746">TS</a>]
01:19:09 ◼ ► be a good solution for those kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4749">TS</a>]
01:19:11 ◼ ► tools as well good those kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4751">TS</a>]
01:19:12 ◼ ► scripts as well so I'm a minute ago you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4752">TS</a>]
01:19:15 ◼ ► mentioned how gypsy programmers people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4755">TS</a>]
01:19:17 ◼ ► like me who are new to Swift tend to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4757">TS</a>]
01:19:20 ◼ ► write Swift like objective-c and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4760">TS</a>]
01:19:23 ◼ ► that's that's concerned I've had it it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4763">TS</a>]
01:19:26 ◼ ► procrastinated adopting Swift up till [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4766">TS</a>]
01:19:28 ◼ ► now because I have a have a pretty good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4768">TS</a>]
01:19:32 ◼ ► grasp of objective-c now and I i right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4772">TS</a>]
01:19:38 ◼ ► basically idiomatic and and soundly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4778">TS</a>]
01:19:44 ◼ ► in the style of what I think apples code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4784">TS</a>]
01:19:46 ◼ ► would look like based on the little bit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4786">TS</a>]
01:19:47 ◼ ► of you know headers that we see I feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4787">TS</a>]
01:19:50 ◼ ► like I right good to see code that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4790">TS</a>]
01:19:51 ◼ ► kind of correct and an idiomatic leave [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4791">TS</a>]
01:19:53 ◼ ► sound with Swift you know III assumed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4793">TS</a>]
01:19:56 ◼ ► that the the idioms would not yet be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4796">TS</a>]
01:19:59 ◼ ► developed for a while and an established [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4799">TS</a>]
01:20:01 ◼ ► for a while and so I didn't want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4801">TS</a>]
01:20:03 ◼ ► write a bunch of bad swiftcode it or or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4803">TS</a>]
01:20:06 ◼ ► like incorrect or or weird swiftcode you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4806">TS</a>]
01:20:10 ◼ ► know investing heavily in it so early on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4810">TS</a>]
01:20:13 ◼ ► do you think that it's at a point now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4813">TS</a>]
01:20:14 ◼ ► where the idioms are starting to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4814">TS</a>]
01:20:17 ◼ ► worked out enough that's less of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4817">TS</a>]
01:20:20 ◼ ► yeah I do I'm so I think it's definitely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4820">TS</a>]
01:20:23 ◼ ► fair to say that in the script one this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4823">TS</a>]
01:20:25 ◼ ► with two timeframes Swift as language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4825">TS</a>]
01:20:28 ◼ ► was changing really rapidly and I could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4828">TS</a>]
01:20:31 ◼ ► see why you'd feel like you're on uneven [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4831">TS</a>]
01:20:32 ◼ ► footing and not really sure what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4832">TS</a>]
01:20:34 ◼ ► language is much less what the idioms [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4834">TS</a>]
01:20:35 ◼ ► are Swift three really is quite well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4835">TS</a>]
01:20:39 ◼ ► baked out and so I expect going forward [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4839">TS</a>]
01:20:41 ◼ ► the the new things are going to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4841">TS</a>]
01:20:43 ◼ ► changing the existing patterns and so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4843">TS</a>]
01:20:46 ◼ ► think this with community in general is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4846">TS</a>]
01:20:48 ◼ ► gone through the same same kind of thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4848">TS</a>]
01:20:50 ◼ ► that you're feeling there where it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4850">TS</a>]
01:20:52 ◼ ► really clear the one right way to solve [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4852">TS</a>]
01:20:56 ◼ ► different good ways to do it with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4856">TS</a>]
01:20:58 ◼ ► different trade-offs won't clear to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4858">TS</a>]
01:21:00 ◼ ► people but I think that's I think people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4860">TS</a>]
01:21:02 ◼ ► are starting to understand that no there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4862">TS</a>]
01:21:04 ◼ ► are a few style books that are being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4864">TS</a>]
01:21:06 ◼ ► written by people that I've heard about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4866">TS</a>]
01:21:07 ◼ ► and so when those come out those will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4867">TS</a>]
01:21:09 ◼ ► hopefully be good and those will be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4869">TS</a>]
01:21:11 ◼ ► good resource but another thing to keep [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4871">TS</a>]
01:21:15 ◼ ► in mind is the Swift is opinionated I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4875">TS</a>]
01:21:18 ◼ ► guess that it is the way to say so it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4878">TS</a>]
01:21:21 ◼ ► really does encourage you to do the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4881">TS</a>]
01:21:22 ◼ ► right thing where where it can and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4882">TS</a>]
01:21:24 ◼ ► I'm for example if you use bar for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4884">TS</a>]
01:21:28 ◼ ► the this with compiler will say hey you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4888">TS</a>]
01:21:31 ◼ ► mark this is a bar but it could be a let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4891">TS</a>]
01:21:34 ◼ ► and that's just it subtle way of and and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4894">TS</a>]
01:21:37 ◼ ► let me fix it for you right and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4897">TS</a>]
01:21:38 ◼ ► just it subtle way of encouraging you to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4898">TS</a>]
01:21:40 ◼ ► use and mutable values which is a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4900">TS</a>]
01:21:43 ◼ ► small Clinton but it's just kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4903">TS</a>]
01:21:45 ◼ ► pushing you in the way that it it thanks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4905">TS</a>]
01:21:48 ◼ ► leads to better code and immutability [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4908">TS</a>]
01:21:50 ◼ ► for local variable doesn't matter that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4910">TS</a>]
01:21:52 ◼ ► much accepted to communicate something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4912">TS</a>]
01:21:54 ◼ ► more to the person us to read maintain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4914">TS</a>]
01:21:57 ◼ ► and and so I think this really does kind [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4917">TS</a>]
01:22:00 ◼ ► of encourage you down the right lines in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4920">TS</a>]
01:22:02 ◼ ► some ways but on the other hand and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4922">TS</a>]
01:22:04 ◼ ► other places where you're saying hey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4924">TS</a>]
01:22:06 ◼ ► should only be a class should be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4926">TS</a>]
01:22:07 ◼ ► struct the train out some more nuanced [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4927">TS</a>]
01:22:09 ◼ ► and it's it's a hard thing in the Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4929">TS</a>]
01:22:11 ◼ ► compiler can't just know what your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4931">TS</a>]
01:22:12 ◼ ► problem is solved and so it can help you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4932">TS</a>]
01:22:15 ◼ ► with that you mentioned Swift style [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4935">TS</a>]
01:22:18 ◼ ► guides before as as a creator of a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4938">TS</a>]
01:22:22 ◼ ► language how how much influence do you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4942">TS</a>]
01:22:26 ◼ ► do you feel like you want to have over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4946">TS</a>]
01:22:28 ◼ ► things like style things that really are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4948">TS</a>]
01:22:31 ◼ ► you know it's not it's not features it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4951">TS</a>]
01:22:34 ◼ ► not technically it's just like you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4954">TS</a>]
01:22:36 ◼ ► what you will know different style [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4956">TS</a>]
01:22:38 ◼ ► things like oh you know I usually have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4958">TS</a>]
01:22:40 ◼ ► one exit at the bottom or you should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4960">TS</a>]
01:22:41 ◼ ► exit early or I mean like there are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4961">TS</a>]
01:22:43 ◼ ► things you can do even things like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4963">TS</a>]
01:22:46 ◼ ► spacing embraced out for crying out loud [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4966">TS</a>]
01:22:48 ◼ ► or you know just the sort of idioms of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4968">TS</a>]
01:22:50 ◼ ► like this little three-line sequences [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4970">TS</a>]
01:22:52 ◼ ► how you do this transformation on this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4972">TS</a>]
01:22:53 ◼ ► data structure you mentioned you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4973">TS</a>]
01:22:56 ◼ ► language features can influence that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4976">TS</a>]
01:22:58 ◼ ► obviously as language designer and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4978">TS</a>]
01:22:59 ◼ ► participate in that process you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4979">TS</a>]
01:23:04 ◼ ► style-wise in one direction or another [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4984">TS</a>]
01:23:06 ◼ ► but eventually you come to the stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4986">TS</a>]
01:23:08 ◼ ► that's just plain opinion and style and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4988">TS</a>]
01:23:11 ◼ ► several other languages have had fairly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4991">TS</a>]
01:23:14 ◼ ► concrete styles set forth early on by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4994">TS</a>]
01:23:17 ◼ ► the creators we're going to go like an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/4997">TS</a>]
01:23:21 ◼ ► how much do you care about being able to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5001">TS</a>]
01:23:24 ◼ ► influence the i guess the personal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5004">TS</a>]
01:23:26 ◼ ► preference or the aesthetic portions of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5006">TS</a>]
01:23:30 ◼ ► style that are outside the things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5010">TS</a>]
01:23:32 ◼ ► you can influence as part of language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5012">TS</a>]
01:23:33 ◼ ► design so as with any programmer the has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5013">TS</a>]
01:23:39 ◼ ► I have my preferred style and so clearly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5019">TS</a>]
01:23:44 ◼ ► naturally naturally well so i guess more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5024">TS</a>]
01:23:53 ◼ ► personal opinion that this style where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5033">TS</a>]
01:23:56 ◼ ► you have a single entry single exit from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5036">TS</a>]
01:23:58 ◼ ► every function i think that leads to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5038">TS</a>]
01:23:59 ◼ ► really difficult to maintain and read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5039">TS</a>]
01:24:01 ◼ ► code and that's one of the things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5041">TS</a>]
01:24:03 ◼ ► led to the guard statement existing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5043">TS</a>]
01:24:05 ◼ ► guard really does encourage you to use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5045">TS</a>]
01:24:07 ◼ ► early exit so you handle the exceptional [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5047">TS</a>]
01:24:10 ◼ ► worried about them so that's that's an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5050">TS</a>]
01:24:12 ◼ ► example of where the language design is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5052">TS</a>]
01:24:14 ◼ ► kind of encouraging you to you know have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5054">TS</a>]
01:24:17 ◼ ► multiple returns from a function other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5057">TS</a>]
01:24:20 ◼ ► more subjective things like the number [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5060">TS</a>]
01:24:21 ◼ ► of spaces i personally I'm a fan of to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5061">TS</a>]
01:24:24 ◼ ► space in dense i know some people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5064">TS</a>]
01:24:25 ◼ ► staunchly for other people are staunchly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5065">TS</a>]
01:24:28 ◼ ► ate some people think 80 columns is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5068">TS</a>]
01:24:29 ◼ ► right answer right i mean all these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5069">TS</a>]
01:24:31 ◼ ► things are there are actually really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5071">TS</a>]
01:24:35 ◼ ► some people argue that you should use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5075">TS</a>]
01:24:37 ◼ ► three space and then because then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5077">TS</a>]
01:24:38 ◼ ► certainly can't have tabs in your file [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5078">TS</a>]
01:24:40 ◼ ► wow so this is where this it comes down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5080">TS</a>]
01:24:45 ◼ ► to you have to pick your battles print [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5085">TS</a>]
01:24:47 ◼ ► and people will disagree for a long time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5087">TS</a>]
01:24:50 ◼ ► and you can make arguments on both sides [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5090">TS</a>]
01:24:52 ◼ ► but the inn where we've come down is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5092">TS</a>]
01:24:56 ◼ ► that it's just more practical to let [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5096">TS</a>]
01:24:58 ◼ ► people write code they like to look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5098">TS</a>]
01:25:00 ◼ ► and that comes at a cost of if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5100">TS</a>]
01:25:02 ◼ ► switch between teams or you pick up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5102">TS</a>]
01:25:04 ◼ ► somebody else's package then maybe it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5104">TS</a>]
01:25:05 ◼ ► indented the wrong way but I don't think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5105">TS</a>]
01:25:08 ◼ ► that really actually actively hurts the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5108">TS</a>]
01:25:11 ◼ ► comprehensive comprehensibility of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5111">TS</a>]
01:25:13 ◼ ► code that's merely annoying and having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5113">TS</a>]
01:25:19 ◼ ► rigorously enforces the one true way I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5119">TS</a>]
01:25:23 ◼ ► it just wasn't a priority early on and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5123">TS</a>]
01:25:25 ◼ ► it also just wasn't a battle that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5125">TS</a>]
01:25:26 ◼ ► were willing to tackle and I don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5126">TS</a>]
01:25:29 ◼ ► we'll see that I think this is still [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5129">TS</a>]
01:25:30 ◼ ► also an open question in terms of what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5130">TS</a>]
01:25:33 ◼ ► other tool and gets built and what other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5133">TS</a>]
01:25:36 ◼ ► things come into the fray because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5136">TS</a>]
01:25:38 ◼ ► would be great to have better tooling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5138">TS</a>]
01:25:40 ◼ ► around this it just hasn't been built [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5140">TS</a>]
01:25:41 ◼ ► out yet and it's a great opportunity for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5141">TS</a>]
01:25:43 ◼ ► open source as well i was thinking about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5143">TS</a>]
01:25:45 ◼ ► it the sort of doomsday scenario where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5145">TS</a>]
01:25:47 ◼ ► like one of these the Swift style guide [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5147">TS</a>]
01:25:49 ◼ ► books comes out and like it makes some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5149">TS</a>]
01:25:51 ◼ ► like blanket recommendation that like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5151">TS</a>]
01:25:53 ◼ ► you should you know always use protocols [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5153">TS</a>]
01:25:56 ◼ ► for this and you should never use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5156">TS</a>]
01:25:57 ◼ ► glasses for that or whatever and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5157">TS</a>]
01:25:58 ◼ ► becomes wildly popular accepted as like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5158">TS</a>]
01:26:04 ◼ ► programming and you're just some are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5164">TS</a>]
01:26:05 ◼ ► shaking your head and go no you got it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5165">TS</a>]
01:26:07 ◼ ► all wrong but I guess you know we'll [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5167">TS</a>]
01:26:09 ◼ ► cross that bridge when we come to it i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5169">TS</a>]
01:26:11 ◼ ► think at this point you did the language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5171">TS</a>]
01:26:13 ◼ ► design itself and the communities have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5173">TS</a>]
01:26:14 ◼ ► enough influence that's not likely to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5174">TS</a>]
01:26:15 ◼ ► happen but I mean I guess what i was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5175">TS</a>]
01:26:17 ◼ ► getting at is it do you feel like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5177">TS</a>]
01:26:18 ◼ ► you want to write a switch style got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5178">TS</a>]
01:26:21 ◼ ► I'm no I don't think that would be a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5181">TS</a>]
01:26:23 ◼ ► good use of my time but if I don't look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5183">TS</a>]
01:26:25 ◼ ► at a time maybe i don't know i started [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5185">TS</a>]
01:26:27 ◼ ► stardancer that theoretical question but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5187">TS</a>]
01:26:29 ◼ ► but I also get to your concern about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5189">TS</a>]
01:26:32 ◼ ► somebody came out with a book that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5192">TS</a>]
01:26:33 ◼ ► so wrong that would cause me to like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5193">TS</a>]
01:26:36 ◼ ► know be really unhappy actually have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5196">TS</a>]
01:26:38 ◼ ► ton of faith in the Swift community [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5198">TS</a>]
01:26:39 ◼ ► because if something came out that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5199">TS</a>]
01:26:43 ◼ ► community overall would would accept it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5203">TS</a>]
01:26:46 ◼ ► the community is again just kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5206">TS</a>]
01:26:49 ◼ ► blown away with how beautiful they are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5209">TS</a>]
01:26:51 ◼ ► and how how many great people have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5211">TS</a>]
01:26:54 ◼ ► gotten involved with Swift and Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5214">TS</a>]
01:26:56 ◼ ► evolution side of things and it's been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5216">TS</a>]
01:26:58 ◼ ► really amazing sees people you know they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5218">TS</a>]
01:27:00 ◼ ► they go through their own personal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5220">TS</a>]
01:27:02 ◼ ► trajectory on swift mailing list where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5222">TS</a>]
01:27:06 ◼ ► you know initially they're saying hi I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5226">TS</a>]
01:27:08 ◼ ► had this idea what you think and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5228">TS</a>]
01:27:11 ◼ ► responses know that's a terrible idea [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5231">TS</a>]
01:27:12 ◼ ► for this is a reason but then they come [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5232">TS</a>]
01:27:16 ◼ ► back a little okay how about this you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5236">TS</a>]
01:27:18 ◼ ► think about this and it was like oh well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5238">TS</a>]
01:27:19 ◼ ► that's interesting that almost worked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5239">TS</a>]
01:27:20 ◼ ► but it didn't work because of that and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5240">TS</a>]
01:27:22 ◼ ► then they come back and say hey well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5242">TS</a>]
01:27:24 ◼ ► what about this is what we actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5244">TS</a>]
01:27:25 ◼ ► tried that and we had that for a while [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5245">TS</a>]
01:27:27 ◼ ► and then had to back out and change this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5247">TS</a>]
01:27:28 ◼ ► other way because we didn't even think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5248">TS</a>]
01:27:29 ◼ ► about this other thing and then the next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5249">TS</a>]
01:27:31 ◼ ► day they're the ones saying this is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5251">TS</a>]
01:27:33 ◼ ► way it needs to go and erases you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5253">TS</a>]
01:27:36 ◼ ► right we should do that and it's it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5256">TS</a>]
01:27:39 ◼ ► it's really hard for people that have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5259">TS</a>]
01:27:41 ◼ ► been involved in the overall design of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5261">TS</a>]
01:27:44 ◼ ► anything is complicated Swift to be able [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5264">TS</a>]
01:27:47 ◼ ► to discern the difference between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5267">TS</a>]
01:27:48 ◼ ► something that is the way it is out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5268">TS</a>]
01:27:51 ◼ ► an intentional decision process or the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5271">TS</a>]
01:27:54 ◼ ► way it is as an actor an accident of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5274">TS</a>]
01:27:56 ◼ ► history and so as now that the design [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5276">TS</a>]
01:27:59 ◼ ► processes public i think that it becomes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5279">TS</a>]
01:28:01 ◼ ► a lot easier for people to to tell that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5281">TS</a>]
01:28:03 ◼ ► and it's very easy for people to kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5283">TS</a>]
01:28:10 ◼ ► the one big debate that i haven't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5290">TS</a>]
01:28:12 ◼ ► actually seen is why is the funky word [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5292">TS</a>]
01:28:14 ◼ ► the funky word and that's one that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5294">TS</a>]
01:28:16 ◼ ► luckily were now beyond this with three [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5296">TS</a>]
01:28:18 ◼ ► source compatibility threshold so we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5298">TS</a>]
01:28:21 ◼ ► just can't have that discussion anymore [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5301">TS</a>]
01:28:25 ◼ ► but one of the best things of this world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5305">TS</a>]
01:28:29 ◼ ► the whole evolution process has that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5309">TS</a>]
01:28:31 ◼ ► like the list of questions like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5311">TS</a>]
01:28:33 ◼ ► Aston answers questions like this is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5313">TS</a>]
01:28:35 ◼ ► commonly asked question we've dealt with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5315">TS</a>]
01:28:36 ◼ ► it before and you're probably gonna want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5316">TS</a>]
01:28:38 ◼ ► to ask it to here's here's about how it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5318">TS</a>]
01:28:39 ◼ ► was asked before and here's what the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5319">TS</a>]
01:28:41 ◼ ► answer is not that everybody's gonna go [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5321">TS</a>]
01:28:43 ◼ ► and see that but i love that exists [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5323">TS</a>]
01:28:45 ◼ ► well then it's also hilarious that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5325">TS</a>]
01:28:46 ◼ ► started out as the commonly proposed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5326">TS</a>]
01:28:48 ◼ ► list and then at some point it became [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5328">TS</a>]
01:28:52 ◼ ► yeah right because it because if it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5332">TS</a>]
01:28:54 ◼ ► commonly proposed obviously it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5334">TS</a>]
01:28:55 ◼ ► getting through and so you have to go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5335">TS</a>]
01:28:57 ◼ ► be rejected list that you're thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5337">TS</a>]
01:28:58 ◼ ► about asking to change funk to FN you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5338">TS</a>]
01:29:01 ◼ ► know well my I know you talked about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5341">TS</a>]
01:29:05 ◼ ► touching it again because many people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5345">TS</a>]
01:29:11 ◼ ► swift and a rough style memory model you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5351">TS</a>]
01:29:14 ◼ ► you phrased it before as an add-on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5354">TS</a>]
01:29:17 ◼ ► feature for people who know that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5357">TS</a>]
01:29:20 ◼ ► need that type of thing but that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5360">TS</a>]
01:29:22 ◼ ► would not like the Swift wouldn't become [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5362">TS</a>]
01:29:24 ◼ ► a language in which all memories manage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5364">TS</a>]
01:29:26 ◼ ► special-purpose feature for particular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5366">TS</a>]
01:29:29 ◼ ► roles what what roles do you think it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5369">TS</a>]
01:29:33 ◼ ► suited for and why why is it not the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5373">TS</a>]
01:29:36 ◼ ► great memory model for all Swift well so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5376">TS</a>]
01:29:39 ◼ ► here's here's the way I look at swift in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5379">TS</a>]
01:29:42 ◼ ► terms of memory management today so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5382">TS</a>]
01:29:43 ◼ ► Swift is using our it's not using GC if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5383">TS</a>]
01:29:46 ◼ ► you want to talk about the trailer i was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5386">TS</a>]
01:29:48 ◼ ► happy to do that thats its own well we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5388">TS</a>]
01:29:50 ◼ ► can fall into arc i think is overall [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5390">TS</a>]
01:29:54 ◼ ► amazing default for swift because it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5394">TS</a>]
01:29:56 ◼ ► gives you deterministic destruction it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5396">TS</a>]
01:29:58 ◼ ► gives you a relatively predictable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5398">TS</a>]
01:30:00 ◼ ► performance and the ark optimizers able [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5400">TS</a>]
01:30:03 ◼ ► to eliminate most of the reference [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5403">TS</a>]
01:30:08 ◼ ► the problem that I see with with our at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5408">TS</a>]
01:30:11 ◼ ► as of today or states with three is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5411">TS</a>]
01:30:15 ◼ ► it is not a very controllable model and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5415">TS</a>]
01:30:19 ◼ ► so if for example you have an inner loop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5419">TS</a>]
01:30:22 ◼ ► and it turns out the ark optimizers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5422">TS</a>]
01:30:24 ◼ ► doing a bunch of retains releases and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5424">TS</a>]
01:30:26 ◼ ► you know that they're not necessary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5426">TS</a>]
01:30:28 ◼ ► because you know the objects are alive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5428">TS</a>]
01:30:30 ◼ ► there's nothing you can really do to to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5430">TS</a>]
01:30:33 ◼ ► solve that problem unless you're willing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5433">TS</a>]
01:30:35 ◼ ► to drop down to something like the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5435">TS</a>]
01:30:37 ◼ ► unsafe operation Swift gives you for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5437">TS</a>]
01:30:39 ◼ ► manipulating references objects the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5439">TS</a>]
01:30:41 ◼ ► and so it's really kind of satisfying me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5441">TS</a>]
01:30:44 ◼ ► to have a really safe great memory model [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5444">TS</a>]
01:30:47 ◼ ► that for performance reasons you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5447">TS</a>]
01:30:48 ◼ ► drop down to unsafety right this is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5448">TS</a>]
01:30:51 ◼ ► huge cliff and is that also a huge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5451">TS</a>]
01:30:53 ◼ ► complexity cliff that you have to drop [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5453">TS</a>]
01:30:55 ◼ ► into just solve that problem and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5455">TS</a>]
01:30:58 ◼ ► not really great so the promise the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5458">TS</a>]
01:31:01 ◼ ► dream is to instead say hey well if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5461">TS</a>]
01:31:03 ◼ ► are a sufficiently advanced programmer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5463">TS</a>]
01:31:05 ◼ ► and you know how this stuff works well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5465">TS</a>]
01:31:07 ◼ ► what the we can give you options instead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5467">TS</a>]
01:31:09 ◼ ► of dropping down to unsafe constructs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5469">TS</a>]
01:31:12 ◼ ► you can actually just use more static [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5472">TS</a>]
01:31:14 ◼ ► type information in annotations in your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5474">TS</a>]
01:31:17 ◼ ► code and so you add a few annotations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5477">TS</a>]
01:31:19 ◼ ► say compiler this is ok the compiler can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5479">TS</a>]
01:31:22 ◼ ► validate those type annotations and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5482">TS</a>]
01:31:25 ◼ ► check to make sure they're correct so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5485">TS</a>]
01:31:27 ◼ ► guaranteed to be okay but you're paying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5487">TS</a>]
01:31:31 ◼ ► annotation the code and it's more more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5491">TS</a>]
01:31:34 ◼ ► heavyweight in terms of coding but when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5494">TS</a>]
01:31:37 ◼ ► you get out of that is the guarantee [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5497">TS</a>]
01:31:38 ◼ ► that no arc operations are happening [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5498">TS</a>]
01:31:40 ◼ ► once you get to that model then it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5500">TS</a>]
01:31:42 ◼ ► becomes really interesting because you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5502">TS</a>]
01:31:43 ◼ ► can say hey well this inner loop i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5503">TS</a>]
01:31:45 ◼ ► going i found in my profile that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5505">TS</a>]
01:31:47 ◼ ► really does matter for performance and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5507">TS</a>]
01:31:49 ◼ ► the ark optimizers doing the wrong thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5509">TS</a>]
01:31:51 ◼ ► i can add a few local annotations and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5511">TS</a>]
01:31:53 ◼ ► now the code is fast it's guaranteed to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5513">TS</a>]
01:31:55 ◼ ► be fast and the clients of my co don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5515">TS</a>]
01:31:58 ◼ ► have to know about it right this is an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5518">TS</a>]
01:32:00 ◼ ► implementation detail and I think this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5520">TS</a>]
01:32:01 ◼ ► will really bring us to the best of both [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5521">TS</a>]
01:32:03 ◼ ► worlds where you could have memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5523">TS</a>]
01:32:05 ◼ ► safety you can have a progressively [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5525">TS</a>]
01:32:09 ◼ ► disclosed complexity complexities system [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5529">TS</a>]
01:32:11 ◼ ► or most people don't have to know about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5531">TS</a>]
01:32:12 ◼ ► or think about it but you can get to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5532">TS</a>]
01:32:14 ◼ ► really low level performance guarantees [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5534">TS</a>]
01:32:16 ◼ ► that otherwise are possible and once we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5536">TS</a>]
01:32:19 ◼ ► do this i have a feeling there will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5539">TS</a>]
01:32:20 ◼ ► certain communities of people that will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5540">TS</a>]
01:32:22 ◼ ► only want to work in this model and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5542">TS</a>]
01:32:24 ◼ ► these are the communities that that like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5544">TS</a>]
01:32:26 ◼ ► rust predominantly so if you're writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5546">TS</a>]
01:32:29 ◼ ► a kernel for example maybe don't want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5549">TS</a>]
01:32:30 ◼ ► have a reference count your object at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5550">TS</a>]
01:32:31 ◼ ► all maybe you just want to have you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5551">TS</a>]
01:32:37 ◼ ► annotations my code pervasively and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5557">TS</a>]
01:32:40 ◼ ► if that happens then there's a couple of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5560">TS</a>]
01:32:42 ◼ ► options we can investigate and we could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5562">TS</a>]
01:32:43 ◼ ► say hey well if you mark this class with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5563">TS</a>]
01:32:45 ◼ ► some attribute than that get that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5565">TS</a>]
01:32:48 ◼ ► prevents the compiler from ever doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5568">TS</a>]
01:32:50 ◼ ► reference counting and if it would ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5570">TS</a>]
01:32:53 ◼ ► or we can even theoretically have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5573">TS</a>]
01:32:55 ◼ ► language dialect modes that hey produce [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5575">TS</a>]
01:32:57 ◼ ► produce an heir anytime I did and our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5577">TS</a>]
01:33:00 ◼ ► I don't like language dialects and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5580">TS</a>]
01:33:02 ◼ ► we'd have to find a way to handle that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5582">TS</a>]
01:33:04 ◼ ► maybe it would be a warning and then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5584">TS</a>]
01:33:06 ◼ ► they would upgrade to an error or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5586">TS</a>]
01:33:08 ◼ ► something like that but I can imagine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5588">TS</a>]
01:33:09 ◼ ► doing something like that and once we do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5589">TS</a>]
01:33:12 ◼ ► that then I think you get to a really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5592">TS</a>]
01:33:13 ◼ ► interesting mode where those systems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5593">TS</a>]
01:33:17 ◼ ► programming type people that otherwise [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5597">TS</a>]
01:33:19 ◼ ► would be using seriously + + can i use [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5599">TS</a>]
01:33:21 ◼ ► swift and that means they only have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5601">TS</a>]
01:33:24 ◼ ► learn one language that means that they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5604">TS</a>]
01:33:26 ◼ ► could use the same toolset that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5606">TS</a>]
01:33:28 ◼ ► the ID and everything else that works [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5608">TS</a>]
01:33:30 ◼ ► great with Swift it means that they can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5610">TS</a>]
01:33:33 ◼ ► scale and use the same language for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5613">TS</a>]
01:33:36 ◼ ► different layers of their stack because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5616">TS</a>]
01:33:38 ◼ ► many applications have very low level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5618">TS</a>]
01:33:41 ◼ ► pieces and very high-level pieces and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5621">TS</a>]
01:33:44 ◼ ► languages is really kind of gross [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5624">TS</a>]
01:33:46 ◼ ► I mean I think we've seen this in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5626">TS</a>]
01:33:48 ◼ ► objective-c community where one of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5628">TS</a>]
01:33:50 ◼ ► best and most annoying things about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5630">TS</a>]
01:33:52 ◼ ► objective-c is that it has seen it right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5632">TS</a>]
01:33:54 ◼ ► and so this has been hugely important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5634">TS</a>]
01:33:56 ◼ ► for objective-c and practice because if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5636">TS</a>]
01:33:58 ◼ ► you're into a performance problem with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5638">TS</a>]
01:34:00 ◼ ► obviously message send you can always [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5640">TS</a>]
01:34:01 ◼ ► rewrite that algorithm in see that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5641">TS</a>]
01:34:04 ◼ ► really really really important for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5644">TS</a>]
01:34:06 ◼ ► objective-c being successful and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5646">TS</a>]
01:34:09 ◼ ► know both in the days of next on 16 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5649">TS</a>]
01:34:11 ◼ ► acres processors but also today for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5651">TS</a>]
01:34:14 ◼ ► low-level cult code the people are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5654">TS</a>]
01:34:16 ◼ ► writing but also means that that's one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5656">TS</a>]
01:34:19 ◼ ► of the problems that makes it so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5659">TS</a>]
01:34:22 ◼ ► intertwined and so you can actually take [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5662">TS</a>]
01:34:24 ◼ ► the sea parte out of objective-c without [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5664">TS</a>]
01:34:26 ◼ ► producing a different language who are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5666">TS</a>]
01:34:28 ◼ ► waiting for swift in the web browser [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5668">TS</a>]
01:34:30 ◼ ► because it's your only Escape speaking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5670">TS</a>]
01:34:31 ◼ ► of applications that have to have one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5671">TS</a>]
01:34:32 ◼ ► language at the higher level that i was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5672">TS</a>]
01:34:34 ◼ ► in the lower one that's about then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5674">TS</a>]
01:34:36 ◼ ► well there-there are our that that i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5676">TS</a>]
01:34:38 ◼ ► think is a frontier that is probably the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5678">TS</a>]
01:34:42 ◼ ► javascript would be such an amazing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5682">TS</a>]
01:34:44 ◼ ► service to the world music and art [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5684">TS</a>]
01:34:51 ◼ ► yeah but it's been tried and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5691">TS</a>]
01:34:52 ◼ ► where you know putting my hope on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5692">TS</a>]
01:34:55 ◼ ► azan jas the web assembly those kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5695">TS</a>]
01:34:57 ◼ ► efforts were its enabling languages like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5697">TS</a>]
01:35:01 ◼ ► Swift and swift swift compiler lv I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5701">TS</a>]
01:35:04 ◼ ► web assembly and Adam jazz both have lvm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5704">TS</a>]
01:35:08 ◼ ► wearable Swift to one of those and go to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5708">TS</a>]
01:35:10 ◼ ► town with the if those end up winning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5710">TS</a>]
01:35:15 ◼ ► and they become big big things then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5715">TS</a>]
01:35:19 ◼ ► maybe that'll be good enough but i don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5719">TS</a>]
01:35:21 ◼ ► really know I don't have my crystal ball [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5721">TS</a>]
01:35:23 ◼ ► doesn't go out to the point where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5723">TS</a>]
01:35:24 ◼ ► javascript is not in web browsers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5724">TS</a>]
01:35:26 ◼ ► yeah that's the difficult part is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5726">TS</a>]
01:35:28 ◼ ► the language mechanics it's the getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5728">TS</a>]
01:35:30 ◼ ► a getting something we can understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5730">TS</a>]
01:35:32 ◼ ► that in front of as many people as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5732">TS</a>]
01:35:35 ◼ ► interested me so again i'm not a web [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5735">TS</a>]
01:35:37 ◼ ► developer and I'm not a I'm definitely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5737">TS</a>]
01:35:39 ◼ ► not an expert in space but to me it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5739">TS</a>]
01:35:41 ◼ ► seems the the trajectory of JavaScript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5741">TS</a>]
01:35:46 ◼ ► intermediate language it's not something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5746">TS</a>]
01:35:48 ◼ ► that developers are writing as much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5748">TS</a>]
01:35:52 ◼ ► and so I c-type script and water other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5752">TS</a>]
01:35:53 ◼ ► languages that now compiled down to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5753">TS</a>]
01:35:55 ◼ ► JavaScript and you know they're really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5755">TS</a>]
01:35:58 ◼ ► using javascript like it like a bit code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5758">TS</a>]
01:36:00 ◼ ► representation not not a source language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5760">TS</a>]
01:36:02 ◼ ► that people are are thinking about as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5762">TS</a>]
01:36:04 ◼ ► much anymore and so I wonder if in five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5764">TS</a>]
01:36:06 ◼ ► years you know the natural conclusion of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5766">TS</a>]
01:36:09 ◼ ► that is the javascript is just an adams [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5769">TS</a>]
01:36:11 ◼ ► is type of thing or maybe web assembly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5771">TS</a>]
01:36:13 ◼ ► does take over but but again I'm not the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5773">TS</a>]
01:36:16 ◼ ► expert don't know where that directional [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5776">TS</a>]
01:36:18 ◼ ► go i know that some people of JavaScript [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5778">TS</a>]
01:36:20 ◼ ► so we'll see on the topic of using [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5780">TS</a>]
01:36:25 ◼ ► language of the JavaScript to write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5785">TS</a>]
01:36:27 ◼ ► JavaScript I have to say having done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5787">TS</a>]
01:36:29 ◼ ► that several times that the tooling why [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5789">TS</a>]
01:36:32 ◼ ► the tooling is not quite where you'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5792">TS</a>]
01:36:34 ◼ ► want to be in terms of being able to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5794">TS</a>]
01:36:36 ◼ ► write in debug and profile in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5796">TS</a>]
01:36:40 ◼ ► preferred language and not in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5800">TS</a>]
01:36:42 ◼ ► compiled down to JavaScript language but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5802">TS</a>]
01:36:45 ◼ ► yeah that maybe that'll be like stage 17 [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5805">TS</a>]
01:36:47 ◼ ► and this with world domination plan [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5807">TS</a>]
01:36:49 ◼ ► people and I think that's always been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5809">TS</a>]
01:36:51 ◼ ► true for preprocessors so I mean even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5811">TS</a>]
01:36:53 ◼ ► see if you do crazy things the macro [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5813">TS</a>]
01:36:55 ◼ ► preprocessor and see you get debugging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5815">TS</a>]
01:36:59 ◼ ► those things are still or oh yeah and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5819">TS</a>]
01:37:02 ◼ ► that's one of the reasons that we've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5822">TS</a>]
01:37:04 ◼ ► been careful about not adding a macro [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5824">TS</a>]
01:37:05 ◼ ► systems Swift early it just brings lots [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5825">TS</a>]
01:37:08 ◼ ► of interesting trade-offs in terms of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5828">TS</a>]
01:37:11 ◼ ► designing experience of 11 last night [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5831">TS</a>]
01:37:16 ◼ ► compatibility according to the timelines [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5836">TS</a>]
01:37:19 ◼ ► that I've heard sketched out that ABI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5839">TS</a>]
01:37:22 ◼ ► stability could be a thing before async [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5842">TS</a>]
01:37:27 ◼ ► you know our concurrency stuff lands and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5847">TS</a>]
01:37:31 ◼ ► dependencies or chicken egg things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5851">TS</a>]
01:37:34 ◼ ► involving there like in order to other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5854">TS</a>]
01:37:36 ◼ ► words in order to do you have to nail [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5856">TS</a>]
01:37:39 ◼ ► down some aspects of your concurrency [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5859">TS</a>]
01:37:40 ◼ ► model before you can commit to ABI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5860">TS</a>]
01:37:42 ◼ ► stability are they totally orthogonal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5862">TS</a>]
01:37:44 ◼ ► and I think they're totally orthogonal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5864">TS</a>]
01:37:46 ◼ ► I'm i think the memory ownership model [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5866">TS</a>]
01:37:48 ◼ ► has more of an impact on ABI stability [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5868">TS</a>]
01:37:51 ◼ ► because there's some very low-level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5871">TS</a>]
01:37:52 ◼ ► things like how the the getters and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5872">TS</a>]
01:37:58 ◼ ► property for example the end up getting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5878">TS</a>]
01:38:01 ◼ ► impacted by the ownership model that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5881">TS</a>]
01:38:04 ◼ ► one of the reasons that were that this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5884">TS</a>]
01:38:06 ◼ ► 15 is actually actively designing and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5886">TS</a>]
01:38:08 ◼ ► write it working on a proposal for the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5888">TS</a>]
01:38:11 ◼ ► memory ownership stuff right now it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5891">TS</a>]
01:38:13 ◼ ► not so that it can be a swift for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5893">TS</a>]
01:38:15 ◼ ► feature it's so that the API stability [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5895">TS</a>]
01:38:20 ◼ ► ultimate model for the memory ownership [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5900">TS</a>]
01:38:22 ◼ ► support and I think concurrency is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5902">TS</a>]
01:38:27 ◼ ► going to be something that impacts avi [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5907">TS</a>]
01:38:29 ◼ ► stability at all but we'll see in a so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5909">TS</a>]
01:38:32 ◼ ► than the sufficiently smart programmers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5912">TS</a>]
01:38:34 ◼ ► that work on swift we'll figure it out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5914">TS</a>]
01:38:36 ◼ ► and I'm sure it'll be great and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5916">TS</a>]
01:38:39 ◼ ► it's also interesting question of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5919">TS</a>]
01:38:40 ◼ ► whether ABI stability will be done for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5920">TS</a>]
01:38:43 ◼ ► swift for because it's a huge amount of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5923">TS</a>]
01:38:47 ◼ ► work the work as well in a way of course [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5927">TS</a>]
01:38:49 ◼ ► but it's also not clear to me that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5929">TS</a>]
01:38:55 ◼ ► important thing for the Swift community [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5935">TS</a>]
01:38:57 ◼ ► and one of the things that ted has been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5937">TS</a>]
01:38:59 ◼ ► a huge champion for and I think he's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5939">TS</a>]
01:39:02 ◼ ► right about is that the most important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5942">TS</a>]
01:39:04 ◼ ► thing right now is with community is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5944">TS</a>]
01:39:05 ◼ ► making the compiler more reliable making [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5945">TS</a>]
01:39:08 ◼ ► the error messages better making compile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5948">TS</a>]
01:39:11 ◼ ► times faster and making a it scale [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5951">TS</a>]
01:39:14 ◼ ► better to large projects and you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5954">TS</a>]
01:39:17 ◼ ► we'll see how the rest of the swift for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5957">TS</a>]
01:39:20 ◼ ► surprised if at some point they decided [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5960">TS</a>]
01:39:22 ◼ ► that focusing on that is more important [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5962">TS</a>]
01:39:24 ◼ ► than nailing ABI stability and so for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5964">TS</a>]
01:39:27 ◼ ► so you just mention Ted that's that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5967">TS</a>]
01:39:29 ◼ ► Ted kramnik who is that is now the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5969">TS</a>]
01:39:31 ◼ ► lead of of the Swift project is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5971">TS</a>]
01:39:33 ◼ ► right yeah he's the project lead so ted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5973">TS</a>]
01:39:36 ◼ ► has been managing the Swift and Clank [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5976">TS</a>]
01:39:39 ◼ ► projects before that for a number of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5979">TS</a>]
01:39:41 ◼ ► years he's been an apple for 10 years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5981">TS</a>]
01:39:43 ◼ ► now he's a Stanford PhD graduate he [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5983">TS</a>]
01:39:47 ◼ ► built single almost single-handedly the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5987">TS</a>]
01:39:50 ◼ ► the first client sack analyzer yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5990">TS</a>]
01:39:53 ◼ ► instead so as they have I love it i'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5993">TS</a>]
01:39:56 ◼ ► saying this now as a swift developer you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/5996">TS</a>]
01:40:00 ◼ ► know she should I be like you know as we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6000">TS</a>]
01:40:02 ◼ ► saw when you announce that you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6002">TS</a>]
01:40:03 ◼ ► leaving Apple that we saw some of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6003">TS</a>]
01:40:05 ◼ ► people the community asking like she [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6005">TS</a>]
01:40:06 ◼ ► would be worried about his future is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6006">TS</a>]
01:40:08 ◼ ► Swift in good hands and a minute you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6008">TS</a>]
01:40:10 ◼ ► know it seems like most of us didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6010">TS</a>]
01:40:11 ◼ ► know Ted at least didn't know his name [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6011">TS</a>]
01:40:13 ◼ ► or or unfamiliar with contributions it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6013">TS</a>]
01:40:16 ◼ ► does seem like he's been doing quite a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6016">TS</a>]
01:40:19 ◼ ► should we be worried i don't think you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6019">TS</a>]
01:40:21 ◼ ► should be worried at all i think swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6021">TS</a>]
01:40:22 ◼ ► is an amazing hands as I mean all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6022">TS</a>]
01:40:27 ◼ ► things that I am leaving behind an apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6027">TS</a>]
01:40:29 ◼ ► and quotes are in really good hands and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6029">TS</a>]
01:40:31 ◼ ► that's one of the only reason I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6031">TS</a>]
01:40:33 ◼ ► comfortable and moving on in the case of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6033">TS</a>]
01:40:36 ◼ ► Ted Ted is a rockstar he has been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6036">TS</a>]
01:40:40 ◼ ► running the Swift team and managing them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6040">TS</a>]
01:40:42 ◼ ► for mean for five years now the roles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6042">TS</a>]
01:40:47 ◼ ► that we had was that Ted own brand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6047">TS</a>]
01:40:50 ◼ ► esteem and then report to me and so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6050">TS</a>]
01:40:52 ◼ ► would mess around and you know cause [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6052">TS</a>]
01:40:55 ◼ ► trouble by you know trying to get people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6055">TS</a>]
01:40:58 ◼ ► to do the exciting important thing that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6058">TS</a>]
01:41:00 ◼ ► I thought and maybe didn't align with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6060">TS</a>]
01:41:04 ◼ ► therefore identities chaos into the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6064">TS</a>]
01:41:06 ◼ ► world but Ted was always the this table [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6066">TS</a>]
01:41:10 ◼ ► runner and the one that was really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6070">TS</a>]
01:41:11 ◼ ► focused on getting the important things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6071">TS</a>]
01:41:13 ◼ ► done and he has a number of really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6073">TS</a>]
01:41:15 ◼ ► exceptional engineers in the team people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6075">TS</a>]
01:41:17 ◼ ► on the core team like the Gregor John [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6077">TS</a>]
01:41:19 ◼ ► the call Joe Joe graph Dave Abrahams [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6079">TS</a>]
01:41:22 ◼ ► these are all just amazingly brilliant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6082">TS</a>]
01:41:25 ◼ ► people and the E and also the team [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6085">TS</a>]
01:41:27 ◼ ► includes a bunch of other engineers that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6087">TS</a>]
01:41:29 ◼ ► are equally dedicated and also just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6089">TS</a>]
01:41:32 ◼ ► totally amazing people to work with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6092">TS</a>]
01:41:34 ◼ ► so the Swift team is I think one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6094">TS</a>]
01:41:36 ◼ ► apples biggest assets it's it's crazy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6096">TS</a>]
01:41:39 ◼ ► how brilliant and dedicated there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6099">TS</a>]
01:41:41 ◼ ► to the project and how excited they are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6101">TS</a>]
01:41:43 ◼ ► to get to world domination one step at a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6103">TS</a>]
01:41:46 ◼ ► time coming back to kind of a more broad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6106">TS</a>]
01:41:49 ◼ ► thing let's say that in this is not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6109">TS</a>]
01:41:51 ◼ ► meant to be tongue-in-cheek reference to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6111">TS</a>]
01:41:53 ◼ ► your next job this is just in general [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6113">TS</a>]
01:41:54 ◼ ► you know you're at home you you kids are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6114">TS</a>]
01:41:57 ◼ ► in bed you know your wife is out or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6117">TS</a>]
01:41:59 ◼ ► something like that and you want to just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6119">TS</a>]
01:42:01 ◼ ► write some code you can't use swift and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6121">TS</a>]
01:42:03 ◼ ► you can't use objective c what are you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6123">TS</a>]
01:42:05 ◼ ► writing code in and I know that's often [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6125">TS</a>]
01:42:09 ◼ ► interesting to you these days that isn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6129">TS</a>]
01:42:11 ◼ ► Swift is an objective-c also i mean i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6131">TS</a>]
01:42:14 ◼ ► have a ton of different interests i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6134">TS</a>]
01:42:16 ◼ ► i really love building great racers for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6136">TS</a>]
01:42:18 ◼ ► example and have done much stuff with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6138">TS</a>]
01:42:20 ◼ ► that and I guess I couldn't use Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6140">TS</a>]
01:42:24 ◼ ► with that then I would probably have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6144">TS</a>]
01:42:25 ◼ ► use people's pot no also check i was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6145">TS</a>]
01:42:29 ◼ ► going to call that I wanted to give you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6149">TS</a>]
01:42:30 ◼ ► a chance to not second-class but what I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6150">TS</a>]
01:42:34 ◼ ► remind people that were they mentioned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6154">TS</a>]
01:42:36 ◼ ► you know what LVL is written in right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6156">TS</a>]
01:42:38 ◼ ► much applause and not have your your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6158">TS</a>]
01:42:41 ◼ ► answer bc of loss and and you know how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6161">TS</a>]
01:42:43 ◼ ► much banks in personal suffering causes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6163">TS</a>]
01:42:45 ◼ ► to have to be riding c++ all day and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6165">TS</a>]
01:42:48 ◼ ► building a beautiful world for other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6168">TS</a>]
01:42:49 ◼ ► people it's just yeah that's where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6169">TS</a>]
01:42:54 ◼ ► yeah yeah it's it's a pain and suffering [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6174">TS</a>]
01:42:56 ◼ ► that's worth it for the bigger bigger [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6176">TS</a>]
01:42:58 ◼ ► victory that's where the stress comes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6178">TS</a>]
01:42:59 ◼ ► from years having to use C++ so i could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6179">TS</a>]
01:43:01 ◼ ► do the same stuff but not feel this much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6181">TS</a>]
01:43:03 ◼ ► that's exactly right i mean there's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6183">TS</a>]
01:43:05 ◼ ► lot of suffering that led to switch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6185">TS</a>]
01:43:07 ◼ ► needing to happen so but but also it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6187">TS</a>]
01:43:11 ◼ ► really depends i mean maybe if I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6191">TS</a>]
01:43:12 ◼ ► doing you know if I was a crazy person [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6192">TS</a>]
01:43:14 ◼ ► ideas pearl for something i don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6194">TS</a>]
01:43:15 ◼ ► from that instead haha well dot but well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6195">TS</a>]
01:43:20 ◼ ► done terrible to read it though nobody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6200">TS</a>]
01:43:23 ◼ ► hey if it's throw a code then you never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6203">TS</a>]
01:43:25 ◼ ► need to rewrite haha for John these are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6205">TS</a>]
01:43:32 ◼ ► grammars to land gently and Swift yeah [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6212">TS</a>]
01:43:35 ◼ ► also I mean that's another that there is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6215">TS</a>]
01:43:37 ◼ ► a great example of pro really has nailed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6217">TS</a>]
01:43:40 ◼ ► the string processing thing even ants in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6220">TS</a>]
01:43:42 ◼ ► 405 and I think 406 is even better and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6222">TS</a>]
01:43:45 ◼ ► Swift has a lot to learn from and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6225">TS</a>]
01:43:49 ◼ ► so for is really learning from Pearl so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6229">TS</a>]
01:43:54 ◼ ► oh please don't give him any ammunition [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6234">TS</a>]
01:43:56 ◼ ► this is terrible i was enjoying this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6236">TS</a>]
01:43:57 ◼ ► interview so much until this very moment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6237">TS</a>]
01:43:59 ◼ ► look at this way once this happens John [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6239">TS</a>]
01:44:03 ◼ ► oh he will find one nothing is so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6243">TS</a>]
01:44:07 ◼ ► perfect that it can't be complained [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6247">TS</a>]
01:44:09 ◼ ► about oh my goodness this is a perennial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6249">TS</a>]
01:44:13 ◼ ► topic on this with Mary lists about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6253">TS</a>]
01:44:15 ◼ ► dynamic features and Swift you know that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6255">TS</a>]
01:44:18 ◼ ► our record more dynamic and objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6258">TS</a>]
01:44:22 ◼ ► and less so in swift swift community [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6262">TS</a>]
01:44:26 ◼ ► there's a lot of angst about when if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6266">TS</a>]
01:44:29 ◼ ► ever will Swift allow me to essentially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6269">TS</a>]
01:44:32 ◼ ► you know like what you said before you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6272">TS</a>]
01:44:33 ◼ ► can write for training in any language [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6273">TS</a>]
01:44:34 ◼ ► you can write a directory name is in any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6274">TS</a>]
01:44:36 ◼ ► language people will try to write their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6276">TS</a>]
01:44:39 ◼ ► code in Swift but using models from [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6279">TS</a>]
01:44:42 ◼ ► objective-c that require things like you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6282">TS</a>]
01:44:45 ◼ ► know it was you know since sending [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6285">TS</a>]
01:44:48 ◼ ► messages objects that you know will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6288">TS</a>]
01:44:50 ◼ ► receive them but the compiler can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6290">TS</a>]
01:44:51 ◼ ► guarantee are you know having big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6291">TS</a>]
01:44:53 ◼ ► heterogenous collections were just like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6293">TS</a>]
01:44:54 ◼ ► no everything's ID and it'll be fine [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6294">TS</a>]
01:44:57 ◼ ► what I don't know how to frame this but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6297">TS</a>]
01:45:00 ◼ ► uh I think that the main question has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6300">TS</a>]
01:45:03 ◼ ► been our dynamic features possible and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6303">TS</a>]
01:45:06 ◼ ► Swift and are they coming in Swift or is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6306">TS</a>]
01:45:09 ◼ ► there some kind of philosophical divide [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6309">TS</a>]
01:45:11 ◼ ► where the the most dynamic stuff that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6311">TS</a>]
01:45:16 ◼ ► forthcoming up for technical reasons but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6316">TS</a>]
01:45:17 ◼ ► just for philosophical and safety [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6317">TS</a>]
01:45:20 ◼ ► sure so I've been pretty outspoken about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6320">TS</a>]
01:45:22 ◼ ► this on the switch evolution let's hope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6322">TS</a>]
01:45:23 ◼ ► this isn't a huge surprise but i don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6323">TS</a>]
01:45:26 ◼ ► think there's any tension between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6326">TS</a>]
01:45:28 ◼ ► dynamic features and Swift the a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6328">TS</a>]
01:45:32 ◼ ► people want to make a and argue about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6332">TS</a>]
01:45:35 ◼ ► responders or you can pick your feature [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6335">TS</a>]
01:45:39 ◼ ► the in Swift and the the worst-case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6339">TS</a>]
01:45:45 ◼ ► scenario frantic blog post I've seen our [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6345">TS</a>]
01:45:47 ◼ ► are things that are along lines of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6347">TS</a>]
01:45:52 ◼ ► frameworks in Swift and then it will be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6352">TS</a>]
01:45:54 ◼ ► impossible to write first responder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6354">TS</a>]
01:45:56 ◼ ► chains and then bad things will happen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6356">TS</a>]
01:45:58 ◼ ► and then we'll be back in the days of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6358">TS</a>]
01:46:05 ◼ ► exactly and so this is this is kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6365">TS</a>]
01:46:08 ◼ ► quite the slope that it's the discussion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6368">TS</a>]
01:46:10 ◼ ► ends up being I think this blow-up most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6370">TS</a>]
01:46:15 ◼ ► recently right before WC this year and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6375">TS</a>]
01:46:17 ◼ ► it was really interesting to wash the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6377">TS</a>]
01:46:20 ◼ ► the blog post that people are flying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6380">TS</a>]
01:46:21 ◼ ► around because everybody had a different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6381">TS</a>]
01:46:25 ◼ ► idea of what dynamic meant happen but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6385">TS</a>]
01:46:28 ◼ ► none that I'm really so apples not going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6388">TS</a>]
01:46:33 ◼ ► to counter blog somebody if he didn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6393">TS</a>]
01:46:36 ◼ ► like being out somebody's a blog on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6396">TS</a>]
01:46:38 ◼ ► somebody's post and it's kind of bad [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6398">TS</a>]
01:46:40 ◼ ► form to do that but I thought was very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6400">TS</a>]
01:46:41 ◼ ► interesting on that none of those people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6401">TS</a>]
01:46:43 ◼ ► actually came to the Swift evolution [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6403">TS</a>]
01:46:45 ◼ ► list which is the right place to do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6405">TS</a>]
01:46:46 ◼ ► and asked about it they all just want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6406">TS</a>]
01:46:49 ◼ ► make these inflamed blog posts are very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6409">TS</a>]
01:46:51 ◼ ► skins so if you get to my opinion my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6411">TS</a>]
01:46:54 ◼ ► opinion is that none of those are in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6414">TS</a>]
01:46:55 ◼ ► tension with a swift current design it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6415">TS</a>]
01:46:58 ◼ ► just a matter of prioritization and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6418">TS</a>]
01:47:01 ◼ ► major problem that Swift has again [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6421">TS</a>]
01:47:03 ◼ ► there's so much work to do there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6423">TS</a>]
01:47:06 ◼ ► concurrency model there's actors their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6426">TS</a>]
01:47:09 ◼ ► systems programming their scripting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6429">TS</a>]
01:47:10 ◼ ► there's lots of little things that go in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6430">TS</a>]
01:47:13 ◼ ► there's better better things for static [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6433">TS</a>]
01:47:16 ◼ ► analysis introducing type stay in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6436">TS</a>]
01:47:17 ◼ ► language there's there there's green [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6437">TS</a>]
01:47:20 ◼ ► postconditions that there's so many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6440">TS</a>]
01:47:22 ◼ ► things that that will be bricks in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6442">TS</a>]
01:47:25 ◼ ► house of Swift that we want to build [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6445">TS</a>]
01:47:27 ◼ ► that need to happen that it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6447">TS</a>]
01:47:30 ◼ ► really make sense spent a lot of time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6450">TS</a>]
01:47:32 ◼ ► building dynamic features so that Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6452">TS</a>]
01:47:35 ◼ ► could theoretically someday do something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6455">TS</a>]
01:47:38 ◼ ► were the Swift team is much more focused [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6458">TS</a>]
01:47:40 ◼ ► on the practical necessities of solving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6460">TS</a>]
01:47:42 ◼ ► the real world problems here now in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6462">TS</a>]
01:47:44 ◼ ► front of people and dynamic features [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6464">TS</a>]
01:47:47 ◼ ► like many other things will just kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6467">TS</a>]
01:47:49 ◼ ► swap in place when the team s time to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6469">TS</a>]
01:47:52 ◼ ► design and roll them out and so you you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6472">TS</a>]
01:47:55 ◼ ► will be able to someday right i expect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6475">TS</a>]
01:47:58 ◼ ► that you will be able to reflect over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6478">TS</a>]
01:48:00 ◼ ► all the methods and the class has for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6480">TS</a>]
01:48:03 ◼ ► example today even the Swift compiler [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6483">TS</a>]
01:48:05 ◼ ► generates all the metadata so you can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6485">TS</a>]
01:48:07 ◼ ► reflect over all the data members and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6487">TS</a>]
01:48:10 ◼ ► your and your values we just don't have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6490">TS</a>]
01:48:13 ◼ ► that metadata is what the xcode memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6493">TS</a>]
01:48:16 ◼ ► heap viewer uses for example and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6496">TS</a>]
01:48:19 ◼ ► there's a lot of that kind of stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6499">TS</a>]
01:48:20 ◼ ► being put in place but just hasn't had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6500">TS</a>]
01:48:23 ◼ ► time to fully break out yet and when it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6503">TS</a>]
01:48:25 ◼ ► does come in i think it's gonna be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6505">TS</a>]
01:48:26 ◼ ► really exciting and will open more doors [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6506">TS</a>]
01:48:28 ◼ ► for new kinds of patterns of people can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6508">TS</a>]
01:48:30 ◼ ► do and a lot of those will be familiar [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6510">TS</a>]
01:48:32 ◼ ► to objective-c programmers but they're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6512">TS</a>]
01:48:34 ◼ ► also be super useful for things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6514">TS</a>]
01:48:36 ◼ ► people really haven't done an object to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6516">TS</a>]
01:48:37 ◼ ► see so i don't i don't see a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6517">TS</a>]
01:48:41 ◼ ► prioritization question I think about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6521">TS</a>]
01:48:44 ◼ ► where your people are coming from is it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6524">TS</a>]
01:48:46 ◼ ► in terms of prioritization because if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6526">TS</a>]
01:48:47 ◼ ► you're used to doing things with certain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6527">TS</a>]
01:48:49 ◼ ► sort of design patterns broadly speaking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6529">TS</a>]
01:48:52 ◼ ► in objective-c and you want to come and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6532">TS</a>]
01:48:53 ◼ ► implement the same patterns and Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6533">TS</a>]
01:48:55 ◼ ► and you find that you can't because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6535">TS</a>]
01:48:57 ◼ ► you're lacking some feature it feels [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6537">TS</a>]
01:48:59 ◼ ► like there's a barrier up in it that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6539">TS</a>]
01:49:01 ◼ ► students getting back to your writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6541">TS</a>]
01:49:02 ◼ ► ready your swift and objective-c style [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6542">TS</a>]
01:49:04 ◼ ► and that's more of a berry they retreat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6544">TS</a>]
01:49:06 ◼ ► back to breakfast because i can write it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6546">TS</a>]
01:49:07 ◼ ► the way I want to read it right and it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6547">TS</a>]
01:49:08 ◼ ► works and objective-c when I try to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6548">TS</a>]
01:49:10 ◼ ► write it that way and so if it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6550">TS</a>]
01:49:11 ◼ ► work for me your choices to change the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6551">TS</a>]
01:49:13 ◼ ► way you write it to be better fit for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6553">TS</a>]
01:49:15 ◼ ► swift has or to go back to objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6555">TS</a>]
01:49:17 ◼ ► I'm so I don't agree with that though [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6557">TS</a>]
01:49:20 ◼ ► because Swift does support all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6560">TS</a>]
01:49:23 ◼ ► features for dynamic dispatch and method [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6563">TS</a>]
01:49:27 ◼ ► objective c does it just requires you to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6567">TS</a>]
01:49:29 ◼ ► use the objective-c subset of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6569">TS</a>]
01:49:31 ◼ ► language because it exposes it through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6571">TS</a>]
01:49:33 ◼ ► the runtime right that that's that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6573">TS</a>]
01:49:35 ◼ ► thatthat's thatthat's the tension [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6575">TS</a>]
01:49:36 ◼ ► because they're like oh I want to write [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6576">TS</a>]
01:49:40 ◼ ► something special and magical about not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6580">TS</a>]
01:49:42 ◼ ► using the objective-c runtime for you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6582">TS</a>]
01:49:44 ◼ ► know I mean you do get a medal for that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6584">TS</a>]
01:49:46 ◼ ► oh yeah I guess that makes some people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6586">TS</a>]
01:49:49 ◼ ► feel good i mean that there are I I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6589">TS</a>]
01:49:53 ◼ ► can't really count that but I just don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6593">TS</a>]
01:49:55 ◼ ► think that it the it's actually fair to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6595">TS</a>]
01:49:57 ◼ ► say you have to fall back to writing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6597">TS</a>]
01:49:59 ◼ ► objective-c code no no I got I'm just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6599">TS</a>]
01:50:01 ◼ ► I'm trying to I didn't write one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6601">TS</a>]
01:50:02 ◼ ► these blog posts over to be trying I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6602">TS</a>]
01:50:03 ◼ ► trying I'm trying to express myself that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6603">TS</a>]
01:50:05 ◼ ► because that was a lot of the concerns [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6605">TS</a>]
01:50:06 ◼ ► like they they want to do it it's they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6606">TS</a>]
01:50:08 ◼ ► want to do it like the new way and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6608">TS</a>]
01:50:11 ◼ ► way and part of doing that is not you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6611">TS</a>]
01:50:13 ◼ ► know an objective seeing everything like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6613">TS</a>]
01:50:14 ◼ ► oh that feels like a compromise in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6614">TS</a>]
01:50:15 ◼ ► old way so there they are setting their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6615">TS</a>]
01:50:19 ◼ ► arbitrarily to try to enter into this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6619">TS</a>]
01:50:22 ◼ ► new world and you know that they they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6622">TS</a>]
01:50:25 ◼ ► want to jump in with both feet or not at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6625">TS</a>]
01:50:27 ◼ ► all and and some of them might end up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6627">TS</a>]
01:50:28 ◼ ► bailing but i think this mean that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6628">TS</a>]
01:50:31 ◼ ► way the way look at that is a look at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6631">TS</a>]
01:50:34 ◼ ► that is an area where the language is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6634">TS</a>]
01:50:36 ◼ ► not fully baked out it's not fully [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6636">TS</a>]
01:50:38 ◼ ► serving their needs and I think that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6638">TS</a>]
01:50:40 ◼ ► really unfortunate right and i'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6640">TS</a>]
01:50:42 ◼ ► going to say that I think that that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6642">TS</a>]
01:50:44 ◼ ► not a good thing i want there to be an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6644">TS</a>]
01:50:46 ◼ ► awesome reflection model I want there to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6646">TS</a>]
01:50:47 ◼ ► be awesome features for sending messages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6647">TS</a>]
01:50:49 ◼ ► like there used to just want to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6649">TS</a>]
01:50:52 ◼ ► developed and designed in the right way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6652">TS</a>]
01:50:54 ◼ ► and at the same time they're being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6654">TS</a>]
01:50:56 ◼ ► annoyed that they can't do those things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6656">TS</a>]
01:50:58 ◼ ► there are a lot of other people being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6658">TS</a>]
01:51:00 ◼ ► annoyed about compiled times right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6660">TS</a>]
01:51:02 ◼ ► ya know I know and and what we have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6662">TS</a>]
01:51:05 ◼ ► do is balance between you know just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6665">TS</a>]
01:51:08 ◼ ► picking two random things where does the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6668">TS</a>]
01:51:10 ◼ ► engineering effort go and and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6670">TS</a>]
01:51:13 ◼ ► never black and white thing there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6673">TS</a>]
01:51:15 ◼ ► never a right answer is all based on gut [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6675">TS</a>]
01:51:18 ◼ ► and judgment and guesses listening to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6678">TS</a>]
01:51:21 ◼ ► the community talking to people and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6681">TS</a>]
01:51:23 ◼ ► that's one of the reasons why i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6683">TS</a>]
01:51:24 ◼ ► the 15 is really phenomenal is that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6684">TS</a>]
01:51:27 ◼ ► really cares that really cares about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6687">TS</a>]
01:51:28 ◼ ► what people are doing it read you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6688">TS</a>]
01:51:31 ◼ ► the various people read the blog post or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6691">TS</a>]
01:51:34 ◼ ► engagement between us with team and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6694">TS</a>]
01:51:37 ◼ ► community is really high because people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6697">TS</a>]
01:51:39 ◼ ► care and there's no management dictated [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6699">TS</a>]
01:51:41 ◼ ► apple says that you know this engineer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6701">TS</a>]
01:51:44 ◼ ► should be on Twitter all the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6704">TS</a>]
01:51:45 ◼ ► talking to people that's certainly not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6705">TS</a>]
01:51:47 ◼ ► that's because of passion from the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6707">TS</a>]
01:51:49 ◼ ► developer is because they really care i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6709">TS</a>]
01:51:51 ◼ ► think that that's the thing that is so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6711">TS</a>]
01:51:52 ◼ ► amazing about the Swift team is just how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6712">TS</a>]
01:51:56 ◼ ► important it is in terms of customer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6716">TS</a>]
01:51:58 ◼ ► service and understanding understanding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6718">TS</a>]
01:52:00 ◼ ► what people are working through and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6720">TS</a>]
01:52:03 ◼ ► insight is what guides the priority [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6723">TS</a>]
01:52:06 ◼ ► decisions and guides the trade-offs that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6726">TS</a>]
01:52:08 ◼ ► have to be made all the time because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6728">TS</a>]
01:52:10 ◼ ► nothing really is as clear as you'd like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6730">TS</a>]
01:52:13 ◼ ► it to be so building on that when all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6733">TS</a>]
01:52:16 ◼ ► us were going back and forth and I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6736">TS</a>]
01:52:18 ◼ ► tangentially involved with this we're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6738">TS</a>]
01:52:20 ◼ ► going back and forth auto it switches [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6740">TS</a>]
01:52:23 ◼ ► this is it fair to say that that does [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6743">TS</a>]
01:52:26 ◼ ► eventually make its way inside of apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6746">TS</a>]
01:52:28 ◼ ► just and i'm just in that you guys are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6748">TS</a>]
01:52:30 ◼ ► aware of it that that that's talked [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6750">TS</a>]
01:52:33 ◼ ► about in some way shape or form because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6753">TS</a>]
01:52:34 ◼ ► it's nice to know and i suspect that it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6754">TS</a>]
01:52:37 ◼ ► does but it's nice to know that when the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6757">TS</a>]
01:52:39 ◼ ► community gets perturbed whether or not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6759">TS</a>]
01:52:41 ◼ ► that that that feeling is justified that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6761">TS</a>]
01:52:45 ◼ ► at least somebody inside Apple has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6765">TS</a>]
01:52:46 ◼ ► hurted whether or not they can respond [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6766">TS</a>]
01:52:48 ◼ ► to it at least they've heard it so when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6768">TS</a>]
01:52:50 ◼ ► we all get our our our pants all twisted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6770">TS</a>]
01:52:54 ◼ ► up does that does that make it in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6774">TS</a>]
01:52:56 ◼ ► I absolutely i mean the there are tons [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6776">TS</a>]
01:53:00 ◼ ► of people actually care about what's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6780">TS</a>]
01:53:01 ◼ ► happening in the developer community and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6781">TS</a>]
01:53:03 ◼ ► and elsewhere right and that's one of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6783">TS</a>]
01:53:05 ◼ ► the the things about Apple's approach in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6785">TS</a>]
01:53:08 ◼ ► terms of not commenting on things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6788">TS</a>]
01:53:09 ◼ ► can be frustrating because you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6789">TS</a>]
01:53:11 ◼ ► know but again there's so many people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6791">TS</a>]
01:53:14 ◼ ► apple that really do care and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6794">TS</a>]
01:53:16 ◼ ► sought and you know again I wish those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6796">TS</a>]
01:53:20 ◼ ► people that were really worried about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6800">TS</a>]
01:53:23 ◼ ► would come to Swift evolution and ask [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6803">TS</a>]
01:53:25 ◼ ► because they're exempt discussion about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6805">TS</a>]
01:53:26 ◼ ► it but that wasn't happening for some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6806">TS</a>]
01:53:28 ◼ ► reason but certainly there's a ton of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6808">TS</a>]
01:53:31 ◼ ► people who saw the blogs and i'm sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6811">TS</a>]
01:53:33 ◼ ► there are tons of engineers at Apple to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6813">TS</a>]
01:53:35 ◼ ► priorities were different and I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6815">TS</a>]
01:53:38 ◼ ► that the engineering community inside of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6818">TS</a>]
01:53:40 ◼ ► Apple reflects quite closely to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6820">TS</a>]
01:53:43 ◼ ► engineering community outside of Apple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6823">TS</a>]
01:53:44 ◼ ► as well and i don't think that I hope [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6824">TS</a>]
01:53:48 ◼ ► that's not surprising right angle as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6828">TS</a>]
01:53:50 ◼ ► many different engineers with different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6830">TS</a>]
01:53:52 ◼ ► feelings of different opinions and and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6832">TS</a>]
01:53:54 ◼ ► think that's a really good thing if if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6834">TS</a>]
01:53:58 ◼ ► something like that that probably very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6838">TS</a>]
01:53:59 ◼ ► unhealthy taking a little bit of a turn [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6839">TS</a>]
01:54:03 ◼ ► so i started writing Swift almost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6843">TS</a>]
01:54:06 ◼ ► exactly a year ago now and the project [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6846">TS</a>]
01:54:12 ◼ ► quote-unquote reactive programming and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6852">TS</a>]
01:54:14 ◼ ► i'm curious have you looked into that at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6854">TS</a>]
01:54:16 ◼ ► all and do you have any particular [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6856">TS</a>]
01:54:18 ◼ ► thoughts on it doesn't seem barbaric to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6858">TS</a>]
01:54:20 ◼ ► you does it seem clever does it just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6860">TS</a>]
01:54:21 ◼ ► seem like an odd choice at ya what what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6861">TS</a>]
01:54:24 ◼ ► is your take on this whole RX thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6864">TS</a>]
01:54:26 ◼ ► yeah I i I've definitely seen it i have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6866">TS</a>]
01:54:29 ◼ ► no real world usage experience for sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6869">TS</a>]
01:54:32 ◼ ► most of my opinion is based on reading [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6872">TS</a>]
01:54:35 ◼ ► blogs and reading people talk about how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6875">TS</a>]
01:54:37 ◼ ► awesome it is well not talking about the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6877">TS</a>]
01:54:40 ◼ ► yeah I from what I gather it seems like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6880">TS</a>]
01:54:44 ◼ ► it is a way of letting you write a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6884">TS</a>]
01:54:46 ◼ ► less code and code that often works [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6886">TS</a>]
01:54:50 ◼ ► the first time and i can see that super [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6890">TS</a>]
01:54:51 ◼ ► appealing it also seems like it'd be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6891">TS</a>]
01:54:53 ◼ ► really challenging to debug it and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6893">TS</a>]
01:54:54 ◼ ► maintain it and so I don't know between [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6894">TS</a>]
01:54:56 ◼ ► the two proteins between the pros and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6896">TS</a>]
01:54:59 ◼ ► cons out balances out if I writing a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6899">TS</a>]
01:55:02 ◼ ► of high-level apps i would probably try [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6902">TS</a>]
01:55:04 ◼ ► it out on an opportunity if I liked it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6904">TS</a>]
01:55:06 ◼ ► but but aside from that are really have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6906">TS</a>]
01:55:10 ◼ ► a good insight either way if it's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6910">TS</a>]
01:55:12 ◼ ► right thing to do or not sure sure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6912">TS</a>]
01:55:15 ◼ ► you mentioned just a second ago that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6915">TS</a>]
01:55:16 ◼ ► see some problems and you mentioned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6916">TS</a>]
01:55:18 ◼ ► debugging is there anything else that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6918">TS</a>]
01:55:19 ◼ ► jumps out at you is being a big concern [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6919">TS</a>]
01:55:21 ◼ ► or or disinterest that it's so different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6921">TS</a>]
01:55:23 ◼ ► I mean I'm not afraid of different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6923">TS</a>]
01:55:26 ◼ ► things i think that it's it's more of AI [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6926">TS</a>]
01:55:30 ◼ ► mean the questions I'd raise and this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6930">TS</a>]
01:55:31 ◼ ► out of ignorance not out of church or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6931">TS</a>]
01:55:35 ◼ ► community doing is their support line [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6935">TS</a>]
01:55:37 ◼ ► are it is the you know is it changing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6937">TS</a>]
01:55:41 ◼ ► and evolving in a way that is good or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6941">TS</a>]
01:55:44 ◼ ► and these are just things i don't know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6944">TS</a>]
01:55:46 ◼ ► because i haven't used to but I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6946">TS</a>]
01:55:48 ◼ ► nothing against the RX community at all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6948">TS</a>]
01:55:50 ◼ ► and I've seen a lot of really cool [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6950">TS</a>]
01:55:51 ◼ ► things I've done and I've read many of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6951">TS</a>]
01:55:52 ◼ ► the the positive post in RX and and rach [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6952">TS</a>]
01:55:57 ◼ ► native than many of the other things for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6957">TS</a>]
01:55:59 ◼ ► people using active techniques so and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6959">TS</a>]
01:56:01 ◼ ► reactive cocoa has also been around for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6961">TS</a>]
01:56:03 ◼ ► quite a while and at and I think that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6963">TS</a>]
01:56:05 ◼ ► a really interesting application that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6965">TS</a>]
01:56:07 ◼ ► maybe became a lot easier when Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6967">TS</a>]
01:56:09 ◼ ► came out then doing an objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6969">TS</a>]
01:56:11 ◼ ► absolutely so i think that is great this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6971">TS</a>]
01:56:13 ◼ ► with can support different kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6973">TS</a>]
01:56:15 ◼ ► programming models like that because you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6975">TS</a>]
01:56:18 ◼ ► know if a awesome new right answer to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6978">TS</a>]
01:56:20 ◼ ► some problem comes out you'd hope that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6980">TS</a>]
01:56:22 ◼ ► you know that your system can support it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6982">TS</a>]
01:56:25 ◼ ► and can make it really elegant and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6985">TS</a>]
01:56:27 ◼ ► beautiful i feel kind of like this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6987">TS</a>]
01:56:30 ◼ ► fighting you know the last war instead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6990">TS</a>]
01:56:33 ◼ ► of the current war but you mentioned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6993">TS</a>]
01:56:35 ◼ ► garbage collection for his ark bunch of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6995">TS</a>]
01:56:37 ◼ ► times and obviously that ship has sailed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6997">TS</a>]
01:56:39 ◼ ► but i would love for you to give a a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/6999">TS</a>]
01:56:46 ◼ ► trade-offs are there because objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7006">TS</a>]
01:56:49 ◼ ► garbage collection as you mentioned sort [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7009">TS</a>]
01:56:51 ◼ ► of at yeah it's not there and eventually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7011">TS</a>]
01:56:57 ◼ ► collection and got our kind of course [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7017">TS</a>]
01:56:59 ◼ ► Swift doesn't have garbage collection at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7019">TS</a>]
01:57:01 ◼ ► all can you talk about the trade-offs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7021">TS</a>]
01:57:02 ◼ ► there and why Swift is the way it is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7022">TS</a>]
01:57:04 ◼ ► what would you like a comparison of Arc [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7024">TS</a>]
01:57:09 ◼ ► objective-c head or garbage collection [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7029">TS</a>]
01:57:12 ◼ ► in theory but you could pick garbage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7032">TS</a>]
01:57:14 ◼ ► collection in a language perhaps not as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7034">TS</a>]
01:57:18 ◼ ► backwards compatibility but you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7038">TS</a>]
01:57:20 ◼ ► that's worth mentioning is well i think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7040">TS</a>]
01:57:21 ◼ ► so i think thats objective-c a decision [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7041">TS</a>]
01:57:23 ◼ ► based on Lovato Lovato had a bunch of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7043">TS</a>]
01:57:25 ◼ ► implementation concerns and other things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7045">TS</a>]
01:57:27 ◼ ► that I think don't reflect they don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7047">TS</a>]
01:57:31 ◼ ► obviously reflect on to the ultimate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7051">TS</a>]
01:57:33 ◼ ► garbage collector that you'd ever want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7053">TS</a>]
01:57:36 ◼ ► comparing against that is interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7056">TS</a>]
01:57:38 ◼ ► but let me turn around so what why do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7058">TS</a>]
01:57:40 ◼ ► you think our reflections interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7060">TS</a>]
01:57:41 ◼ ► what what is compelling about garbage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7061">TS</a>]
01:57:43 ◼ ► collection beyond our well it did the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7063">TS</a>]
01:57:46 ◼ ► yeah memory management is completely out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7066">TS</a>]
01:57:48 ◼ ► of the hands of the programmer and it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7068">TS</a>]
01:57:50 ◼ ► some magical fairy behind-the-scenes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7070">TS</a>]
01:57:51 ◼ ► will make it all good for you and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7071">TS</a>]
01:57:54 ◼ ► you know obviously what you're giving up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7074">TS</a>]
01:57:56 ◼ ► as you mentioned before that you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7076">TS</a>]
01:57:57 ◼ ► even with our cue you lack some amount [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7077">TS</a>]
01:58:00 ◼ ► of control that you'll need to to have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7080">TS</a>]
01:58:02 ◼ ► programming which obviously give that up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7082">TS</a>]
01:58:04 ◼ ► with the garbage collection because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7084">TS</a>]
01:58:05 ◼ ► you're not gonna be doing assistant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7085">TS</a>]
01:58:07 ◼ ► collected with a garbage collector [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7087">TS</a>]
01:58:09 ◼ ► behind it although i think Microsoft has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7089">TS</a>]
01:58:12 ◼ ► some project to do that singularity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7092">TS</a>]
01:58:13 ◼ ► product but they were trying to build a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7093">TS</a>]
01:58:14 ◼ ► hall West off of garbage collection not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7094">TS</a>]
01:58:16 ◼ ► quite sure how that's good that's going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7096">TS</a>]
01:58:18 ◼ ► right but even if even if you ignore the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7098">TS</a>]
01:58:20 ◼ ► the systems programming side of things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7100">TS</a>]
01:58:22 ◼ ► because i think it's fair to say a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7102">TS</a>]
01:58:23 ◼ ► of people don't care about that and so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7103">TS</a>]
01:58:27 ◼ ► garbage collection is proven in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7107">TS</a>]
01:58:28 ◼ ► application space for java for example [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7108">TS</a>]
01:58:32 ◼ ► right and pearl but do this reference [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7112">TS</a>]
01:58:39 ◼ ► oh that's right it's python that users [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7119">TS</a>]
01:58:40 ◼ ► reference counting plus cycle collector [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7120">TS</a>]
01:58:42 ◼ ► so but let me ask you again so you said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7122">TS</a>]
01:58:45 ◼ ► it means you don't have to think about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7125">TS</a>]
01:58:49 ◼ ► well that's the pitch the pitches that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7129">TS</a>]
01:58:51 ◼ ► the programmers tend to think about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7131">TS</a>]
01:58:52 ◼ ► they have to think about it when the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7132">TS</a>]
01:58:53 ◼ ► garbage collector and understand the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7133">TS</a>]
01:58:55 ◼ ► pitch but is it true when the garbage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7135">TS</a>]
01:58:57 ◼ ► collector starts doing things you don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7137">TS</a>]
01:58:58 ◼ ► want and then all of a sudden you do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7138">TS</a>]
01:59:00 ◼ ► have to think about it but then there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7140">TS</a>]
01:59:02 ◼ ► do about it yeah so so here's here's the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7142">TS</a>]
01:59:05 ◼ ► way I look at it and as you said that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7145">TS</a>]
01:59:08 ◼ ► I am totally convinced the artists right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7148">TS</a>]
01:59:10 ◼ ► way to go up front it is better a whole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7150">TS</a>]
01:59:14 ◼ ► bunch of different ways it gives you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7154">TS</a>]
01:59:16 ◼ ► deterministic behavior so you don't get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7156">TS</a>]
01:59:21 ◼ ► unpredictable stutter problem that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7161">TS</a>]
01:59:22 ◼ ► people like to bash on gc's the starter [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7162">TS</a>]
01:59:26 ◼ ► problem to me isn't really the issue [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7166">TS</a>]
01:59:28 ◼ ► even though that's what GC haters will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7168">TS</a>]
01:59:31 ◼ ► bring up all the time it's more about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7171">TS</a>]
01:59:33 ◼ ► being a reason about when the memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7173">TS</a>]
01:59:35 ◼ ► goes away and the most important aspect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7175">TS</a>]
01:59:40 ◼ ► finalized errs so if you use a garbage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7180">TS</a>]
01:59:42 ◼ ► collector of language use finalized errs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7182">TS</a>]
01:59:44 ◼ ► finalizer Tsar the thing that gets run [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7184">TS</a>]
01:59:46 ◼ ► when your object is destroyed finalizes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7186">TS</a>]
01:59:48 ◼ ► have so many problems there are entire [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7188">TS</a>]
01:59:50 ◼ ► that there's entire bodies of work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7190">TS</a>]
01:59:54 ◼ ► problems with finalizer for example the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7194">TS</a>]
01:59:57 ◼ ► finalizer gets around the wrong thread [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7197">TS</a>]
02:00:00 ◼ ► x the object get resurrected while the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7200">TS</a>]
02:00:02 ◼ ► final is running happens non-statistical [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7202">TS</a>]
02:00:05 ◼ ► later you can't count on it and so you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7205">TS</a>]
02:00:08 ◼ ► can't use it for resource management for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7208">TS</a>]
02:00:10 ◼ ► database animals and things like that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7210">TS</a>]
02:00:12 ◼ ► for example there are so many problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7212">TS</a>]
02:00:14 ◼ ► with finalizes the artist defines away [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7214">TS</a>]
02:00:17 ◼ ► by having deterministic destruction [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7217">TS</a>]
02:00:18 ◼ ► beyond that art though so the the common [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7218">TS</a>]
02:00:25 ◼ ► that another common thing they're there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7225">TS</a>]
02:00:28 ◼ ► to two arguments that people make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7228">TS</a>]
02:00:29 ◼ ► against are in favor of a trace and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7229">TS</a>]
02:00:32 ◼ ► garbage collector one of which is the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7232">TS</a>]
02:00:34 ◼ ► arcades overhead because you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7234">TS</a>]
02:00:36 ◼ ► retained release operations that run and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7236">TS</a>]
02:00:40 ◼ ► the other is that you have to think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7240">TS</a>]
02:00:44 ◼ ► about cycles in arc because it doesn't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7244">TS</a>]
02:00:46 ◼ ► automatically collects cycles and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7246">TS</a>]
02:00:48 ◼ ► is also true and the the rebuttal I'd [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7248">TS</a>]
02:00:51 ◼ ► give to people is that those problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7251">TS</a>]
02:00:54 ◼ ► are also true in garbage collection just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7254">TS</a>]
02:00:56 ◼ ► in different ways so in a garbage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7256">TS</a>]
02:00:59 ◼ ► collector for example people don't think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7259">TS</a>]
02:01:00 ◼ ► about it but garbage collection injects [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7260">TS</a>]
02:01:03 ◼ ► additional code into your application [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7263">TS</a>]
02:01:05 ◼ ► just like artists and so you know there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7265">TS</a>]
02:01:08 ◼ ► are many different garbage collection [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7268">TS</a>]
02:01:09 ◼ ► algorithms not all of them are the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7269">TS</a>]
02:01:10 ◼ ► but the most modern garbage collectors [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7270">TS</a>]
02:01:16 ◼ ► that use a nursery for short lifetime [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7276">TS</a>]
02:01:19 ◼ ► objects and then promote them out there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7279">TS</a>]
02:01:21 ◼ ► generational use something called the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7281">TS</a>]
02:01:24 ◼ ► right barrier the right barrier is every [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7284">TS</a>]
02:01:26 ◼ ► time you store to a property of an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7286">TS</a>]
02:01:30 ◼ ► object say you have to run additional [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7290">TS</a>]
02:01:32 ◼ ► code garbage collectors also need the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7292">TS</a>]
02:01:34 ◼ ► ability to stop all the threads or at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7294">TS</a>]
02:01:36 ◼ ► least to be able to stop threads at some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7296">TS</a>]
02:01:38 ◼ ► point in time and they need to be able [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7298">TS</a>]
02:01:40 ◼ ► to do so within a specific time down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7300">TS</a>]
02:01:42 ◼ ► because they don't want the garbage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7302">TS</a>]
02:01:44 ◼ ► the artifact that is the typical garbage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7304">TS</a>]
02:01:48 ◼ ► collectors in Java for example will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7308">TS</a>]
02:01:49 ◼ ► introduce what's called a safe point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7309">TS</a>]
02:01:51 ◼ ► into loops and so now in your loops [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7311">TS</a>]
02:01:55 ◼ ► extra code is being run because of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7315">TS</a>]
02:01:57 ◼ ► garbage collector and on more aggressive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7317">TS</a>]
02:02:00 ◼ ► garbage collection algorithms for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7320">TS</a>]
02:02:01 ◼ ► example i was reading a blog post [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7321">TS</a>]
02:02:03 ◼ ► recently about goes tricolor algorithm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7323">TS</a>]
02:02:06 ◼ ► they they're touting the advantage of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7326">TS</a>]
02:02:09 ◼ ► you get really low latency and you get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7329">TS</a>]
02:02:11 ◼ ► the ability to guarantee response times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7331">TS</a>]
02:02:15 ◼ ► and more firing level than most garbage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7335">TS</a>]
02:02:17 ◼ ► collectors but to do that they use this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7337">TS</a>]
02:02:19 ◼ ► tricolor algorithm which dramatically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7339">TS</a>]
02:02:21 ◼ ► lowers throughput and that dramatically [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7341">TS</a>]
02:02:23 ◼ ► lower throughput because they're doing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7343">TS</a>]
02:02:26 ◼ ► operations that are kids doing the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7346">TS</a>]
02:02:29 ◼ ► problem that it then introduces those [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7349">TS</a>]
02:02:31 ◼ ► that these operations that the garbage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7351">TS</a>]
02:02:33 ◼ ► collectors introducing are sometimes but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7353">TS</a>]
02:02:35 ◼ ► not nearly as well optimized elazig the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7355">TS</a>]
02:02:38 ◼ ► ark overhead that the ark optimize it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7358">TS</a>]
02:02:40 ◼ ► applies to and furthermore there's no [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7360">TS</a>]
02:02:42 ◼ ► kind of out on it so with our I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7362">TS</a>]
02:02:45 ◼ ► and hope that the ownership model will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7365">TS</a>]
02:02:46 ◼ ► give people the ability to take control [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7366">TS</a>]
02:02:47 ◼ ► of those overheads and if it becomes a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7367">TS</a>]
02:02:50 ◼ ► problem practice or if they're just that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7370">TS</a>]
02:02:52 ◼ ► kind of person they can take full [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7372">TS</a>]
02:02:53 ◼ ► control over the lifetime of their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7373">TS</a>]
02:02:55 ◼ ► objects and then know the ark will never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7375">TS</a>]
02:02:57 ◼ ► happen in the garbage collector you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7377">TS</a>]
02:02:58 ◼ ► don't have that so the performance side [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7378">TS</a>]
02:03:01 ◼ ► of things I think is still up in the air [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7381">TS</a>]
02:03:04 ◼ ► because are certainly doesn't reduce [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7384">TS</a>]
02:03:06 ◼ ► overhead some of that's unavoidable at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7386">TS</a>]
02:03:12 ◼ ► least without lots of annotations in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7392">TS</a>]
02:03:13 ◼ ► your code but I also i think that arc is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7393">TS</a>]
02:03:16 ◼ ► not done yet a ton of energy has been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7396">TS</a>]
02:03:20 ◼ ► collection particularly since Java has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7400">TS</a>]
02:03:23 ◼ ► come up there have been hundreds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7403">TS</a>]
02:03:24 ◼ ► papers written in the academic circles [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7404">TS</a>]
02:03:25 ◼ ► tons of work and hotspot another other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7405">TS</a>]
02:03:29 ◼ ► job implementations to do different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7409">TS</a>]
02:03:33 ◼ ► different new kinds of albums and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7413">TS</a>]
02:03:35 ◼ ► garbage collection and that work really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7415">TS</a>]
02:03:37 ◼ ► hasn't been done for archaea and so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7417">TS</a>]
02:03:39 ◼ ► think there's still a big future ahead [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7419">TS</a>]
02:03:40 ◼ ► on the programming side of things the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7420">TS</a>]
02:03:43 ◼ ► cycle side of things i think it's also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7423">TS</a>]
02:03:45 ◼ ► really interesting question of how much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7425">TS</a>]
02:03:47 ◼ ► people think about memory when you when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7427">TS</a>]
02:03:51 ◼ ► you when I was baiting you a little bit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7431">TS</a>]
02:03:55 ◼ ► collection is that you don't have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7435">TS</a>]
02:03:56 ◼ ► think about memory but of course we know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7436">TS</a>]
02:03:58 ◼ ► that's not true right because if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7438">TS</a>]
02:04:00 ◼ ► have a reference to some big object [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7440">TS</a>]
02:04:02 ◼ ► graph they didn't mean to keep around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7442">TS</a>]
02:04:03 ◼ ► maybe it's in your undo stack then you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7443">TS</a>]
02:04:05 ◼ ► will quote unquote leak that memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7445">TS</a>]
02:04:07 ◼ ► right and that that's true a garbage [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7447">TS</a>]
02:04:11 ◼ ► collector that's true of arc as well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7451">TS</a>]
02:04:12 ◼ ► it's just any any automatic memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7452">TS</a>]
02:04:15 ◼ ► management approach has that problem and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7455">TS</a>]
02:04:19 ◼ ► so that that is a really interesting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7459">TS</a>]
02:04:24 ◼ ► this question of if you're building a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7464">TS</a>]
02:04:26 ◼ ► large scale system do you want people to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7466">TS</a>]
02:04:29 ◼ ► quote-unquote never think about memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7469">TS</a>]
02:04:31 ◼ ► do you want them to think about memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7471">TS</a>]
02:04:35 ◼ ► objective-c classic retain and release [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7475">TS</a>]
02:04:37 ◼ ► man retain release or do you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7477">TS</a>]
02:04:39 ◼ ► something in the middle and I think the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7479">TS</a>]
02:04:41 ◼ ► ark strikes a really interesting balance [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7481">TS</a>]
02:04:42 ◼ ► that either whether it's in objective-c [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7482">TS</a>]
02:04:45 ◼ ► orin swift where I look at manual retain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7485">TS</a>]
02:04:50 ◼ ► really releases being a very imperative [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7490">TS</a>]
02:04:52 ◼ ► style of memory management or Malcolm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7492">TS</a>]
02:04:54 ◼ ► free all these things where you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7494">TS</a>]
02:04:55 ◼ ► telling the code line by line this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7495">TS</a>]
02:04:58 ◼ ► where you should do a reference count [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7498">TS</a>]
02:04:59 ◼ ► operation this is where you should [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7499">TS</a>]
02:05:02 ◼ ► this is what you should do at this point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7502">TS</a>]
02:05:03 ◼ ► I'm are then takes that model and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7503">TS</a>]
02:05:05 ◼ ► bubbles it up a big step and it makes it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7505">TS</a>]
02:05:07 ◼ ► being it makes it be a very declarative [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7507">TS</a>]
02:05:09 ◼ ► model so instead of telling the compiler [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7509">TS</a>]
02:05:11 ◼ ► or the the the telling the compiler that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7511">TS</a>]
02:05:15 ◼ ► this is the place you should do retain [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7515">TS</a>]
02:05:20 ◼ ► the cool thing about that to me is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7520">TS</a>]
02:05:22 ◼ ► not only does that get rid of the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7522">TS</a>]
02:05:24 ◼ ► mechanics of maintaining reference [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7524">TS</a>]
02:05:26 ◼ ► counting and define away tons above by [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7526">TS</a>]
02:05:28 ◼ ► doing that it also means that is now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7528">TS</a>]
02:05:32 ◼ ► intention was and that's something that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7532">TS</a>]
02:05:34 ◼ ► people who maintain your code benefit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7534">TS</a>]
02:05:36 ◼ ► from and so by saying that I have a weak [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7536">TS</a>]
02:05:38 ◼ ► point or to the parent object of my my [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7538">TS</a>]
02:05:44 ◼ ► relationship to know about and as you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7544">TS</a>]
02:05:46 ◼ ► looking at the code you maintain the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7546">TS</a>]
02:05:47 ◼ ► code having that be explicit is very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7547">TS</a>]
02:05:49 ◼ ► valuable because it talks about the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7549">TS</a>]
02:05:51 ◼ ► the relationship between values and to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7551">TS</a>]
02:05:55 ◼ ► me again with the goal of being ever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7555">TS</a>]
02:05:57 ◼ ► write large-scale applications and Swift [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7557">TS</a>]
02:06:01 ◼ ► burdensome though it is definitely part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7561">TS</a>]
02:06:04 ◼ ► of the learning curve of learning how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7564">TS</a>]
02:06:05 ◼ ► swift works that you know has to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7565">TS</a>]
02:06:08 ◼ ► balanced in there as well and so i don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7568">TS</a>]
02:06:11 ◼ ► know i mean i like it is there are has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7571">TS</a>]
02:06:14 ◼ ► clear advantages in terms of allowing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7574">TS</a>]
02:06:18 ◼ ► Swift to scale down two systems that can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7578">TS</a>]
02:06:21 ◼ ► tolerate having a garbage collector for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7581">TS</a>]
02:06:23 ◼ ► example if you want to write from where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7583">TS</a>]
02:06:28 ◼ ► programming model where programmers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7588">TS</a>]
02:06:29 ◼ ► think just a little bit about memory and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7589">TS</a>]
02:06:32 ◼ ► i think that you know going forward it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7592">TS</a>]
02:06:34 ◼ ► provides a really high performance model [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7594">TS</a>]
02:06:37 ◼ ► that you can get better than better than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7597">TS</a>]
02:06:40 ◼ ► garbage collection and almost every way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7600">TS</a>]
02:06:41 ◼ ► so i think that in terms of trade-offs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7601">TS</a>]
02:06:43 ◼ ► it's the right one push forward the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7603">TS</a>]
02:06:46 ◼ ► other I guess third piece that that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7606">TS</a>]
02:06:49 ◼ ► garbage collection is really bad about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7609">TS</a>]
02:06:51 ◼ ► is kind of a showstopper for swift which [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7611">TS</a>]
02:06:54 ◼ ► is inner interoperability with C code so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7614">TS</a>]
02:06:57 ◼ ► if you've ever worked with java or with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7617">TS</a>]
02:06:59 ◼ ► other similar garbage collector of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7619">TS</a>]
02:07:01 ◼ ► languages one of the major advantages [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7621">TS</a>]
02:07:04 ◼ ► the garbage collectors give you is they [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7624">TS</a>]
02:07:05 ◼ ► move objects and they need to do that so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7625">TS</a>]
02:07:07 ◼ ► they can compact those objects so that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7627">TS</a>]
02:07:09 ◼ ► they can then efficiently doo doo [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7629">TS</a>]
02:07:11 ◼ ► allocations but the problem is that once [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7631">TS</a>]
02:07:13 ◼ ► you start moving objects around if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7633">TS</a>]
02:07:17 ◼ ► you can't have some random c-code having [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7637">TS</a>]
02:07:19 ◼ ► a pointer to your object and have it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7639">TS</a>]
02:07:20 ◼ ► moved because then you get a dangling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7640">TS</a>]
02:07:22 ◼ ► pointer and so once you get down that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7642">TS</a>]
02:07:25 ◼ ► line you end up with things like J&I the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7645">TS</a>]
02:07:27 ◼ ► java native interface where you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7647">TS</a>]
02:07:29 ◼ ► explicitly pin things you have to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7649">TS</a>]
02:07:31 ◼ ► maintain them it's very complicated it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7651">TS</a>]
02:07:34 ◼ ► really buggy and are completely defines [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7654">TS</a>]
02:07:42 ◼ ► predictable lifetime you can reason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7662">TS</a>]
02:07:44 ◼ ► about it but provides tools for dealing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7664">TS</a>]
02:07:47 ◼ ► with unsafe pointers and things like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7667">TS</a>]
02:07:48 ◼ ► that and that makes the interoperability [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7668">TS</a>]
02:07:52 ◼ ► Objective C and maybe someday c++ code [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7672">TS</a>]
02:07:54 ◼ ► really simple really natural and really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7674">TS</a>]
02:07:57 ◼ ► efficient and I think that's a huge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7677">TS</a>]
02:07:58 ◼ ► advantage that are provides that really [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7678">TS</a>]
02:08:01 ◼ ► would be impossible to do with with the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7681">TS</a>]
02:08:03 ◼ ► garbage collector so that's my opinion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7683">TS</a>]
02:08:07 ◼ ► I mean I think reasonable people just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7687">TS</a>]
02:08:09 ◼ ► agree obviously but it's something that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7689">TS</a>]
02:08:12 ◼ ► does come up now and then or used to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7692">TS</a>]
02:08:14 ◼ ► come up anyway i'm convinced i think you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7694">TS</a>]
02:08:15 ◼ ► should use our for swift got to get on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7695">TS</a>]
02:08:18 ◼ ► yeah Chris thank you so very very very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7698">TS</a>]
02:08:23 ◼ ► obviously we are not an interview show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7703">TS</a>]
02:08:25 ◼ ► is its listeners have discovered over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7705">TS</a>]
02:08:27 ◼ ► the last hour to but uh but to take your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7707">TS</a>]
02:08:30 ◼ ► time on what is presumably a very busy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7710">TS</a>]
02:08:32 ◼ ► time of your life in to spend it with us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7712">TS</a>]
02:08:35 ◼ ► three knuckleheads I really appreciate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7715">TS</a>]
02:08:37 ◼ ► it was very kind of you to do and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7717">TS</a>]
02:08:39 ◼ ► hopefully this won't be the last time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7719">TS</a>]
02:08:41 ◼ ► that we'll hear you want to put on a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7721">TS</a>]
02:08:42 ◼ ► show or maybe even the show we'll see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7722">TS</a>]
02:08:44 ◼ ► so thank you Chris I really appreciate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7724">TS</a>]
02:08:46 ◼ ► it yeah well thank you for having me and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7726">TS</a>]
02:08:47 ◼ ► I've had fun even though I'm terrified [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7727">TS</a>]
02:08:49 ◼ ► and probably a fool of myself and not at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7729">TS</a>]
02:08:53 ◼ ► I'm still trying to get over that plus [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7733">TS</a>]
02:08:55 ◼ ► that's our job they're alright thanks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7735">TS</a>]
02:08:57 ◼ ► lat 43 sponsors this week 0 square space [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7737">TS</a>]
02:09:00 ◼ ► and audible and we will see you next [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7740">TS</a>]
02:09:05 ◼ ► now the show is over they didn't even [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7745">TS</a>]
02:09:09 ◼ ► mean to be in because it was accidental [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7749">TS</a>]
02:09:16 ◼ ► John didn't research Marco and Casey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7756">TS</a>]
02:09:25 ◼ ► accidental and you can find show know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7765">TS</a>]
02:09:30 ◼ ► DP died and it for twitter follow them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7770">TS</a>]
02:09:38 ◼ ► yes byl ISS so that's Casey list and a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7778">TS</a>]
02:09:43 ◼ ► co-pay RM Angie Marco Arment our CC [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7783">TS</a>]
02:10:04 ◼ ► we didn't talk about a woodworking stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7804">TS</a>]
02:10:09 ◼ ► yeah making splitters is fun what about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7809">TS</a>]
02:10:12 ◼ ► what kind of wood was a table Nina it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7812">TS</a>]
02:10:17 ◼ ► that's a lot of that's a lot of kinds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7817">TS</a>]
02:10:18 ◼ ► pretty hard wood right yeah yeah i mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7818">TS</a>]
02:10:21 ◼ ► it takes time because it's fun it's one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7821">TS</a>]
02:10:23 ◼ ► of these one of these areas where you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7823">TS</a>]
02:10:25 ◼ ► can learn a lot about it over time and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7825">TS</a>]
02:10:28 ◼ ► different spaces and there's never you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7828">TS</a>]
02:10:30 ◼ ► never know everything so it's a lot of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7830">TS</a>]
02:10:32 ◼ ► fun to dive into woodworking is also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7832">TS</a>]
02:10:34 ◼ ► very very different than sitting in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7834">TS</a>]
02:10:36 ◼ ► front of a computer all day now you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7836">TS</a>]
02:10:38 ◼ ► actually going to make something with [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7838">TS</a>]
02:10:39 ◼ ► your hands and you gotta build much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7839">TS</a>]
02:10:40 ◼ ► higher chance for dismemberment that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7840">TS</a>]
02:10:43 ◼ ► that is true that is true i think i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7843">TS</a>]
02:10:45 ◼ ► think it's interesting when programmers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7845">TS</a>]
02:10:47 ◼ ► have like incredibly analog hobbies [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7847">TS</a>]
02:10:52 ◼ ► woodworking communities going to this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7852">TS</a>]
02:10:58 ◼ ► people always say well why don't you get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7858">TS</a>]
02:11:00 ◼ ► cnc indubitable own like but that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7860">TS</a>]
02:11:02 ◼ ► exactly what I'm escaping think I don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7862">TS</a>]
02:11:04 ◼ ► want to have to program my little you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7864">TS</a>]
02:11:07 ◼ ► can't even escape like the community [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7867">TS</a>]
02:11:09 ◼ ► arguments over standards and had to make [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7869">TS</a>]
02:11:13 ◼ ► it so you just cut down a tree in your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7873">TS</a>]
02:11:14 ◼ ► throat into your workshop and then out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7874">TS</a>]
02:11:16 ◼ ► yeah well so that's that's the that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7876">TS</a>]
02:11:18 ◼ ► the funny thing about people is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7878">TS</a>]
02:11:19 ◼ ► people are all the same they just don't [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7879">TS</a>]
02:11:21 ◼ ► want to notice the greater the effect [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7881">TS</a>]
02:11:23 ◼ ► you know you get two very different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7883">TS</a>]
02:11:25 ◼ ► communities and they think they're all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7885">TS</a>]
02:11:26 ◼ ► different but they're actually the same [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7886">TS</a>]
02:11:27 ◼ ► at route so Chris you're obviously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7887">TS</a>]
02:11:34 ◼ ► necessarily change employers would you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7894">TS</a>]
02:11:36 ◼ ► consider yourself a car person I was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7896">TS</a>]
02:11:40 ◼ ► I mean I obviously need a car cars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7900">TS</a>]
02:11:44 ◼ ► important but I'm what i consider to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7904">TS</a>]
02:11:47 ◼ ► a nun car person I want to accelerate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7907">TS</a>]
02:11:49 ◼ ► the path to cars being appliances that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7909">TS</a>]
02:11:54 ◼ ► personally not the kind of guy who loves [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7914">TS</a>]
02:11:56 ◼ ► doing I'll changes and fiddling around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7916">TS</a>]
02:11:59 ◼ ► with them I just want something that is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7919">TS</a>]
02:12:02 ◼ ► ideally drives me where I want to go and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7922">TS</a>]
02:12:04 ◼ ► I don't have to think about it it's just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7924">TS</a>]
02:12:07 ◼ ► you know solving my problems it's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7927">TS</a>]
02:12:09 ◼ ► something I have to care for feed and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7929">TS</a>]
02:12:10 ◼ ► maintain so but that's kind of the way I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7930">TS</a>]
02:12:13 ◼ ► look at cars can you drive a stick [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7933">TS</a>]
02:12:16 ◼ ► I did drive a stick before i got my test [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7936">TS</a>]
02:12:19 ◼ ► a few years ago so yeah I it all comes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7939">TS</a>]
02:12:22 ◼ ► clear now they really from the point of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7942">TS</a>]
02:12:23 ◼ ► view like it kind of sounds like you you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7943">TS</a>]
02:12:25 ◼ ► you want to make cars boring and in all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7945">TS</a>]
02:12:28 ◼ ► in a good weight really and that's a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7948">TS</a>]
02:12:30 ◼ ► noble goal and I think I can see why you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7950">TS</a>]
02:12:33 ◼ ► went to Tesla however it is kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7953">TS</a>]
02:12:35 ◼ ► funny that like Tesla is in my opinion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7955">TS</a>]
02:12:37 ◼ ► clearly the most exciting car company [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7957">TS</a>]
02:12:40 ◼ ► that the world is known for quite some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7960">TS</a>]
02:12:43 ◼ ► well while having a you know such like a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7963">TS</a>]
02:12:46 ◼ ► an almost nonchalant opinion about cars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7966">TS</a>]
02:12:49 ◼ ► is interesting to me hehe yeah well I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7969">TS</a>]
02:12:51 ◼ ► admit that I never considered going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7971">TS</a>]
02:12:54 ◼ ► work at a car company before but that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7974">TS</a>]
02:12:59 ◼ ► companies to be you know not not in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7979">TS</a>]
02:13:03 ◼ ► native the kinds of skills that I bring [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7983">TS</a>]
02:13:05 ◼ ► the autopilot i think is really exciting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7985">TS</a>]
02:13:07 ◼ ► and really big problem and it kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7987">TS</a>]
02:13:09 ◼ ► fits with my my desire solved nearly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7989">TS</a>]
02:13:13 ◼ ► impulse possible problems and take on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7993">TS</a>]
02:13:16 ◼ ► new things and so I'm really excited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7996">TS</a>]
02:13:18 ◼ ► about it so I'm I'm a little curious [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/7998">TS</a>]
02:13:21 ◼ ► on that note we've talked on the show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8001">TS</a>]
02:13:24 ◼ ► before about you-know-what whether we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8004">TS</a>]
02:13:26 ◼ ► think that that full self-driving cars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8006">TS</a>]
02:13:30 ◼ ► you know basically when and whether we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8010">TS</a>]
02:13:32 ◼ ► think those will exist like and what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8012">TS</a>]
02:13:33 ◼ ► kind of time frame are we talking to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8013">TS</a>]
02:13:34 ◼ ► decade our lifetimes ever because you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8014">TS</a>]
02:13:37 ◼ ► know it's one thing to make something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8017">TS</a>]
02:13:38 ◼ ► that can work on clearly marked highways [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8018">TS</a>]
02:13:41 ◼ ► it's only thing that can make that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8021">TS</a>]
02:13:42 ◼ ► something work where john lives where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8022">TS</a>]
02:13:44 ◼ ► there's where there's ice all over the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8024">TS</a>]
02:13:45 ◼ ► road for most of the year and so like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8025">TS</a>]
02:13:47 ◼ ► there's no more lane markings there's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8027">TS</a>]
02:13:49 ◼ ► barely any flat road surfaces or you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8029">TS</a>]
02:13:51 ◼ ► have all these different ambiguities [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8031">TS</a>]
02:13:53 ◼ ► that you have in in real-world roads do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8033">TS</a>]
02:13:57 ◼ ► you think you know it again obviously [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8037">TS</a>]
02:14:00 ◼ ► capacity as an about to be tested [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8040">TS</a>]
02:14:02 ◼ ► employee do you think big picture that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8042">TS</a>]
02:14:07 ◼ ► we will see completely self-driving cars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8047">TS</a>]
02:14:10 ◼ ► capable of driving on effectively all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8050">TS</a>]
02:14:11 ◼ ► roads within say the next decade and if [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8051">TS</a>]
02:14:17 ◼ ► yeah i think that it's very possible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8057">TS</a>]
02:14:20 ◼ ► within the next decade and hopefully [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8060">TS</a>]
02:14:22 ◼ ► that's a long long long view but keep in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8062">TS</a>]
02:14:25 ◼ ► mind the goal is to drive better than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8065">TS</a>]
02:14:29 ◼ ► and significantly better than him and I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8069">TS</a>]
02:14:32 ◼ ► think one of the things that gives me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8072">TS</a>]
02:14:34 ◼ ► confidence in this is that it's not an [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8074">TS</a>]
02:14:40 ◼ ► autonomous cars have more sensors than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8080">TS</a>]
02:14:42 ◼ ► humans do you know they have they have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8082">TS</a>]
02:14:44 ◼ ► radar for example and that means that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8084">TS</a>]
02:14:46 ◼ ► they're capable of doing things that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8086">TS</a>]
02:14:50 ◼ ► and there's a huge technology problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8090">TS</a>]
02:14:53 ◼ ► there's huge software problems is not a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8093">TS</a>]
02:14:55 ◼ ► overnight kind of a thing that you wake [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8095">TS</a>]
02:14:58 ◼ ► up and solve immediately but I I have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8098">TS</a>]
02:15:01 ◼ ► confidence can be solved certainly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8101">TS</a>]
02:15:03 ◼ ► well the good news is it's not gonna [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8103">TS</a>]
02:15:06 ◼ ► take a lot to be better than your [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8106">TS</a>]
02:15:08 ◼ ► average driver from Massachusetts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8108">TS</a>]
02:15:09 ◼ ► because that's a pretty low bar now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8109">TS</a>]
02:15:11 ◼ ► because they know how to navigate these [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8111">TS</a>]
02:15:12 ◼ ► intersections like seven different exits [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8112">TS</a>]
02:15:15 ◼ ► all a different angle some of which are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8115">TS</a>]
02:15:17 ◼ ► one-way none of which are marked so the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8117">TS</a>]
02:15:19 ◼ ► humans can figure that out it's going to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8119">TS</a>]
02:15:21 ◼ ► be tough with the sensors family I will [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8121">TS</a>]
02:15:23 ◼ ► drive a Manhattan without any problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8123">TS</a>]
02:15:25 ◼ ► I would never drive in Boston oh I amen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8125">TS</a>]
02:15:29 ◼ ► alright so bring this back around Chris [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8129">TS</a>]
02:15:31 ◼ ► you made mention why early in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8131">TS</a>]
02:15:32 ◼ ► episode that you like yellow cars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8132">TS</a>]
02:15:39 ◼ ► my-my-my one of my favorite cars was a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8139">TS</a>]
02:15:42 ◼ ► yellow mini cooper with black hood [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8142">TS</a>]
02:15:44 ◼ ► stripes on it nice and I make it for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8144">TS</a>]
02:15:47 ◼ ► convertible it was totally awesome that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8147">TS</a>]
02:15:51 ◼ ► doesn't get you in the carpool lane but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8151">TS</a>]
02:15:52 ◼ ► it was a beautiful car in his defense [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8152">TS</a>]
02:15:56 ◼ ► like yellow it like I've seen a like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8156">TS</a>]
02:15:58 ◼ ► that kind of that kinda category of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8158">TS</a>]
02:16:01 ◼ ► color like yellow orange maybe teal or [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8161">TS</a>]
02:16:04 ◼ ► maybe even like a pink like the kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8164">TS</a>]
02:16:06 ◼ ► like bright almost neon ish colors can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8166">TS</a>]
02:16:09 ◼ ► work really well they often don't but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8169">TS</a>]
02:16:12 ◼ ► then when they work well they look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8172">TS</a>]
02:16:14 ◼ ► pretty good i could totally see that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8174">TS</a>]
02:16:16 ◼ ► only fly see in this plan is that Tesla [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8176">TS</a>]
02:16:19 ◼ ► does not currently offer either yellow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8179">TS</a>]
02:16:21 ◼ ► as an option or custom paint colors as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8181">TS</a>]
02:16:24 ◼ ► well so now you've broken the real [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8184">TS</a>]
02:16:26 ◼ ► secret they want to hire compiler ok [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8186">TS</a>]
02:16:28 ◼ ► that's why would you gotten your Tesla [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8188">TS</a>]
02:16:31 ◼ ► and yellow if you could have but yes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8191">TS</a>]
02:16:38 ◼ ► yeah and really fully thought the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8198">TS</a>]
02:16:43 ◼ ► surgeon i don't i don't know if you get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8203">TS</a>]
02:16:45 ◼ ► that car component you were talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8205">TS</a>]
02:16:47 ◼ ► about model s right yeah yeah now i [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8207">TS</a>]
02:16:49 ◼ ► would yellow doesn't seem right for that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8209">TS</a>]
02:16:51 ◼ ► we're gonna do some shopping mock-ups [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8211">TS</a>]
02:16:53 ◼ ► workshop in a little bit will see that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8213">TS</a>]
02:16:55 ◼ ► maybe if you got like stripes down the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8215">TS</a>]
02:16:57 ◼ ► yeah I'm if this is the case for details [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8217">TS</a>]
02:16:59 ◼ ► matter so what ya got me that's like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8219">TS</a>]
02:17:02 ◼ ► if there's anything if there's any way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8222">TS</a>]
02:17:03 ◼ ► for you to get like a pet feature [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8223">TS</a>]
02:17:04 ◼ ► implemented in the model line that seems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8224">TS</a>]
02:17:07 ◼ ► like a pretty good one to do it at least [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8227">TS</a>]
02:17:09 ◼ ► and you know i would ask if I'm sure I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8229">TS</a>]
02:17:12 ◼ ► know you're probably not gonna be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8232">TS</a>]
02:17:12 ◼ ► working on on the Bluetooth you I but [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8232">TS</a>]
02:17:15 ◼ ► i'm sure you could probably put in a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8235">TS</a>]
02:17:17 ◼ ► word with the right people to please [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8237">TS</a>]
02:17:23 ◼ ► otherwise if you can't make a yellow one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8243">TS</a>]
02:17:25 ◼ ► that would be you know in addition to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8245">TS</a>]
02:17:27 ◼ ► have potentially saving thousands of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8247">TS</a>]
02:17:29 ◼ ► lives a year with autopilot soft you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8249">TS</a>]
02:17:32 ◼ ► know getting getting improved bluetooth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8252">TS</a>]
02:17:35 ◼ ► well yellow would make are more visible [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8255">TS</a>]
02:17:36 ◼ ► to other drivers are they can drive a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8256">TS</a>]
02:17:39 ◼ ► bright colors to know that you're there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8259">TS</a>]
02:17:40 ◼ ► since you don't have any engine sound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8260">TS</a>]
02:17:46 ◼ ► and i have to say the most effort I've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8266">TS</a>]
02:17:51 ◼ ► programmer haha so i'm not sure this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8271">TS</a>]
02:17:58 ◼ ► scalable approach yeah that's the best [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+CdTE-_oY/8278">TS</a>]