Roderick on the Line

00:00:00 ◼   ► hey John I Merlin has gone that's early [TS]

00:00:15 ◼   ► mm you have a busy morning it's not even [TS]

00:00:18 ◼   ► 1030 yet [TS]

00:00:19 ◼   ► mm-hmm I'm sorry we're starting earlier [TS]

00:00:24 ◼   ► than usual which by which i mean we [TS]

00:00:26 ◼   ► didn't delay it as much as usual [TS]

00:00:28 ◼   ► yeah well I I feel like there's a little [TS]

00:00:31 ◼   ► bit of mission creep and we're just [TS]

00:00:32 ◼   ► getting earlier and earlier we're going [TS]

00:00:35 ◼   ► to be recording this podcast at seven [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► thirty in the morning [TS]

00:00:38 ◼   ► mm I don't wanna hurt the evergreen long [TS]

00:00:42 ◼   ► live nature of our programs i think [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► it'll be helping people potentially for [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► millennia [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► yeah but first of all we always record [TS]

00:00:50 ◼   ► at 10am on Wednesdays and less traveling [TS]

00:00:54 ◼   ► with the the retinue but I think we need [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► to officially move to 1035 that helped [TS]

00:01:02 ◼   ► 1035 you are you on the west coast right [TS]

00:01:05 ◼   ► now come on the west coast so it feels [TS]

00:01:07 ◼   ► like 7-10 35 on the west coast feels [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► like seven it really goes I just reading [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► the hunter s thompson used to wake up at [TS]

00:01:13 ◼   ► 3pm haha and then he did just so much [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► cocaine up it was at to use your phrase [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► that I picked up here I think he was [TS]

00:01:24 ◼   ► gacked out on cocaine for a lot of the [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► day [TS]

00:01:27 ◼   ► yeah you know I have considered I've [TS]

00:01:31 ◼   ► considered a lot of different speedy [TS]

00:01:33 ◼   ► remedies to my to my problem of not [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► wanting to wake up but all the they all [TS]

00:01:39 ◼   ► contribute to my problem of not wanting [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► to go to sleep [TS]

00:01:42 ◼   ► halcyon he would have a house key on am [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► mmm i wish i could find a healthy on [TS]

00:01:47 ◼   ► this is a term I know you're not a [TS]

00:01:48 ◼   ► technologist but i think this is a term [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► you're familiar with time-shifting yeah [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► i'm giving your 27 our natural day [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► yeah you know this you know how there's [TS]

00:01:58 ◼   ► some places like really squirrely places [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► that don't observe the time child right [TS]

00:02:04 ◼   ► yeah like little carries an Arizona or [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► something but don't don't make the [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► switch [TS]

00:02:08 ◼   ► yeah it just seems to me that given the [TS]

00:02:11 ◼   ► decisions that you made your life your [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► career and your natural clock i dont see [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► there is no reason that you couldn't [TS]

00:02:17 ◼   ► move toward a 27 [TS]

00:02:19 ◼   ► our day yeah mirana you get the kids [TS]

00:02:23 ◼   ► stuff that stuff [TS]

00:02:24 ◼   ► yeah I gotta go to the bank and stuff [TS]

00:02:26 ◼   ► the the the thing that confuses me is is [TS]

00:02:29 ◼   ► not the is not the the little time [TS]

00:02:31 ◼   ► pockets in the world but there are you [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► know I have a pretty good natural [TS]

00:02:34 ◼   ► compass I I can always tell you where [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► the where the you-know-what the cardinal [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► directions are absolutely you're like [TS]

00:02:41 ◼   ► you're like a bird of prey you've got [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► like a non-magnetic your necklace or [TS]

00:02:45 ◼   ► something yeah right but there are a [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► couple of places in the world where that [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► an inner inner compass is completely [TS]

00:02:54 ◼   ► turned around buy something buy [TS]

00:02:58 ◼   ► something in the ground [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► hm the city of Budapest is like this it [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► does not matter to me how I arrived in [TS]

00:03:06 ◼   ► Budapest I I feel like it is like the [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► city is rotated on the on the space-time [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► but not like even like bring 90 degrees [TS]

00:03:18 ◼   ► it might be rotated like 17 degrees like [TS]

00:03:21 ◼   ► just enough to really screw up it's like [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► 70 degrees when it's right it's rotated [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► 70 degrees so so i don't thing is i have [TS]

00:03:29 ◼   ► walked to Budapest [TS]

00:03:32 ◼   ► mhm so you're moving mostly east at that [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► point I was and so I knew with way [TS]

00:03:39 ◼   ► slowing in here you're still going east [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► for a lie [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► did I knew and I want and I had been [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► there before and experienced this [TS]

00:03:45 ◼   ► problem of like wait a minute what no [TS]

00:03:49 ◼   ► that's impossible [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► that can't possibly be North I know it [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► in my bones and then it's like no I'm [TS]

00:03:57 ◼   ► afraid it is that is north and I'm so [TS]

00:03:58 ◼   ► I'm i walked into this city and I'm [TS]

00:04:01 ◼   ► thinking this will solve this problem [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► for me this has been a problem for years [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► yeah yeah we got a point of reference [TS]

00:04:10 ◼   ► yeah now i'm walking in I have real i [TS]

00:04:13 ◼   ► have europe at my back I'm gonna walk [TS]

00:04:15 ◼   ► into the city and I swear to you I [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► walked around the corner in it in a city [TS]

00:04:20 ◼   ► street and all of a sudden it was like [TS]

00:04:23 ◼   ► wobbly and I was upside down and [TS]

00:04:27 ◼   ► backwards that list i mean that's like [TS]

00:04:29 ◼   ► when Spiderman liz is spider spider [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► senses [TS]

00:04:31 ◼   ► really what it's like and I I'm the [TS]

00:04:33 ◼   ► whole time the things i love the city [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► the whole time I'm there I I enjoy it [TS]

00:04:37 ◼   ► very much but there is something there's [TS]

00:04:40 ◼   ► something there's it it's like a scene [TS]

00:04:44 ◼   ► those images of Einstein Ian a fabric of [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► space-time where you could be a [TS]

00:04:50 ◼   ► non-euclidean city it's yeah it's like [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► it there's a gravity sink there there's [TS]

00:04:55 ◼   ► like a little it's like a it's like the [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► whole on a putt-putt golf course and it [TS]

00:04:59 ◼   ► is but there's also a twist and it's [TS]

00:05:02 ◼   ► like it's like somebody it's not like [TS]

00:05:05 ◼   ► somebody put dog poop in a bag and [TS]

00:05:07 ◼   ► twisted it because Budapest is not you [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► could not describe it as dog pooping a [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► bang [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► that is how i feel i feel like you don't [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► mind just a bit i got i feel like that [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► it isn't the city rhyme poop in that [TS]

00:05:18 ◼   ► analogy the best is the bag again nobody [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► blames the bag up there are no bad dogs [TS]

00:05:26 ◼   ► but so so knowing that that exists [TS]

00:05:28 ◼   ► knowing that that place is there and [TS]

00:05:30 ◼   ► knowing that that most people don't [TS]

00:05:32 ◼   ► experience it because most people don't [TS]

00:05:33 ◼   ► have a very accurate inner compass and [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► then it causes me to wonder about [TS]

00:05:39 ◼   ► everything then it's like well if that [TS]

00:05:40 ◼   ► if that can be true then what else can [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► be true it's so much about this doesn't [TS]

00:05:46 ◼   ► add up and I have to be honest I've my [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► file card for Hungary is basically [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► goulash and the Gabor sisters right and [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► that's pretty much the extent of it [TS]

00:05:56 ◼   ► balitaan oh that all not down with the [TS]

00:06:01 ◼   ► phonetically like I have so many is [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► already have so many questions for you I [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► Allah that I don't want to get your way [TS]

00:06:08 ◼   ► with this but I in the same census with [TS]

00:06:11 ◼   ► the actually Peter Parker but but in [TS]

00:06:13 ◼   ► that same sense you are made with an [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► active mind and it seems to me that for [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► the time you're enjoying this city there [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► must be some small part of you that [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► still wondering what the heck is going [TS]

00:06:23 ◼   ► on and you think it might be the soil [TS]

00:06:26 ◼   ► the pavement [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► oh no it's something d it's something [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► much deeper than that it's like a [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► because I don't know what I I honestly [TS]

00:06:33 ◼   ► don't know why my sense of the cardinal [TS]

00:06:36 ◼   ► directions is so strong but it has saved [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► my ass a million times and it doesn't [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► seem to be that it's not like I get [TS]

00:06:43 ◼   ► interference [TS]

00:06:44 ◼   ► from microwaves well as far as you know [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► as far as i know but it doesn't get the [TS]

00:06:51 ◼   ► Sun do they get the Sun in hungry cuz my [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► other centers of my sense of canning is [TS]

00:06:55 ◼   ► is the opposite of years i mean i'm i'm [TS]

00:06:59 ◼   ► lost on market street because there's a [TS]

00:07:01 ◼   ► diagonal they have the Sun there but [TS]

00:07:03 ◼   ► also you know one of the one of the good [TS]

00:07:06 ◼   ► things about Budapest is that one side [TS]

00:07:10 ◼   ► is a hill and one side is flat like [TS]

00:07:12 ◼   ► theres a river that runs down the middle [TS]

00:07:13 ◼   ► of it [TS]

00:07:14 ◼   ► the river runs dude south through the [TS]

00:07:18 ◼   ► town and one-sided is a big hill and one [TS]

00:07:20 ◼   ► side is flat so you've got a [TS]

00:07:22 ◼   ► geographical compass already in place [TS]

00:07:24 ◼   ► yeah so there is there's an awful lot of [TS]

00:07:26 ◼   ► letter there are a lot of physical [TS]

00:07:28 ◼   ► features it's not like it's just a [TS]

00:07:29 ◼   ► rambling a like a mess of a city it's [TS]

00:07:34 ◼   ► incredibly ordered gridded say with life [TS]

00:07:37 ◼   ► features they basically have a sudden [TS]

00:07:40 ◼   ► basically have a sign on one side that [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► says this is east this is east town and [TS]

00:07:46 ◼   ► yet I can't get my head around it [TS]

00:07:47 ◼   ► because it doesn't it doesn't square [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► with how I because doesn't square with [TS]

00:07:52 ◼   ► my emotional sense of what the [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► directions are you go to somewhere like [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► London or Boston have been the line i've [TS]

00:07:57 ◼   ► been to London for like five hours but [TS]

00:08:00 ◼   ► but yeah boss is a subtle myself most of [TS]

00:08:03 ◼   ► it I i found a place that had it so good [TS]

00:08:05 ◼   ► i don't smoke the day I found a place to [TS]

00:08:07 ◼   ► have cigars and i went to a station [TS]

00:08:09 ◼   ► yesterday i use the loo you see Bobby [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► wasabi he had he had a torch and a lift [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► and with or yeah well so shining glory [TS]

00:08:19 ◼   ► listen I've been to London a lot of [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► times you saw all the good stuff and [TS]

00:08:23 ◼   ► that an Olympic Stadium doesn't sound [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► like really much to look at but I mean [TS]

00:08:26 ◼   ► now it's obviously for me do you get you [TS]

00:08:28 ◼   ► have two problems here well I ever i [TS]

00:08:30 ◼   ► cannot set aside genetics you can never [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► I think you're unwise to set aside [TS]

00:08:34 ◼   ► genetics but I was that the times the [TS]

00:08:37 ◼   ► time when I had to acquaint myself with [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► directions especially when I started [TS]

00:08:40 ◼   ► driving with Florida where you know [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► everywhere I've lived in Florida was [TS]

00:08:44 ◼   ► oriented around in north-south artery [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► you know what I mean like the US 19 US [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► 41 but there's always it and almost [TS]

00:08:54 ◼   ► examine highways right they just go [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► north and south florida is just too [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► it's just a north-south dongle for he's [TS]

00:09:01 ◼   ► just a dongle that's being I said dongle [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► that's adorable huh [TS]

00:09:05 ◼   ► it's a turkey waddle you know I don't [TS]

00:09:10 ◼   ► like to quit the simpsons but but Homer [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► everyone prefers to Florida as america's [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► wang yeah but no I think that's part of [TS]

00:09:19 ◼   ► it for me is I'm always trying to orient [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► myself to like the large body of water [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► is over there right to the West in my [TS]

00:09:25 ◼   ► case and so I mean so for me seriously [TS]

00:09:28 ◼   ► somewhere like San Francisco where you [TS]

00:09:31 ◼   ► know as you know market street is is [TS]

00:09:33 ◼   ► actually almost a perfect diagonal and [TS]

00:09:35 ◼   ► then the streets that go around they're [TS]

00:09:37 ◼   ► totally confusing some of the names [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► change at market street there's [TS]

00:09:41 ◼   ► intersections where there's like five [TS]

00:09:42 ◼   ► roads coming together and i find that [TS]

00:09:45 ◼   ► but you have no problem with that i mean [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► we get anyway the times you've been here [TS]

00:09:49 ◼   ► which i always enjoy we get in your van [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► and you have one hundred percent [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► confidence that you will get where [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► you're going to take you take a step and [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► you always know what the next step is [TS]

00:10:00 ◼   ► well X and the thing about San Francisco [TS]

00:10:04 ◼   ► is in that city was laid out by miners [TS]

00:10:08 ◼   ► miners and trappers and i think i think [TS]

00:10:12 ◼   ► what they did is they tied it tighter [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► length of string to the belt loop of [TS]

00:10:17 ◼   ► like 50 drunk guys and just send them [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► all out from them from it's got this one [TS]

00:10:23 ◼   ► currently go it will call you market but [TS]

00:10:30 ◼   ► uh but but it in something in a city [TS]

00:10:32 ◼   ► like San Francisco I kind of I don't [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► know what it is I kind of just look up [TS]

00:10:35 ◼   ► at the sky and nowhere is this is why I [TS]

00:10:37 ◼   ► bring up the sign it was when i [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► discovered the sign that my sense of [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► direction got so much better because I'm [TS]

00:10:41 ◼   ► good age were you when you discovered [TS]

00:10:43 ◼   ► the Sun i think i discovered the sun at [TS]

00:10:46 ◼   ► a point when I had to discover the son I [TS]

00:10:49 ◼   ► never paid much attention to the Sun and [TS]

00:10:51 ◼   ► then at some point i was informed that [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► it generally speaking rises in the east [TS]

00:10:55 ◼   ► and sets in the west and that the only [TS]

00:10:58 ◼   ► two things that I have going for me in [TS]

00:11:01 ◼   ► life literally our number one I almost [TS]

00:11:04 ◼   ► never forget a face [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► i I don't know anybody's name I have [TS]

00:11:06 ◼   ► your written down here on a card but but [TS]

00:11:08 ◼   ► that and i have an extraordinary sense [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► of what time it [TS]

00:11:11 ◼   ► usually down to no more than five [TS]

00:11:14 ◼   ► minutes and you know that's not because [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► the morning edition song came on [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► it's like I I know what time it is and [TS]

00:11:20 ◼   ► my wife will see what time is it and I [TS]

00:11:22 ◼   ► will go 678 618 now i'm almost always so [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► so let me tell you how that helps once I [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► discovered the Sun i was able to know [TS]

00:11:32 ◼   ► that because it is the morning and the [TS]

00:11:34 ◼   ► sun's over there that's kind of it kind [TS]

00:11:37 ◼   ► of eats it just seems to me that you [TS]

00:11:39 ◼   ► would you would just see that you see [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► your shadow like like a great roiling [TS]

00:11:43 ◼   ► groundhog and you would know where I I [TS]

00:11:46 ◼   ► don't wanna be labor this but this is a [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► product this is the this is the problem [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► with living on the earth one of the [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► problems living in there like for [TS]

00:11:53 ◼   ► instance if you're in Malibu California [TS]

00:11:55 ◼   ► fly your you are conscious of the fact [TS]

00:11:59 ◼   ► that the pacific ocean is it is to your [TS]

00:12:02 ◼   ► West and America's to your East because [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► you are on the pacific ocean right [TS]

00:12:06 ◼   ► that's how we think of the world I could [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► see it from my house but I Mallory days [TS]

00:12:09 ◼   ► a year [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► Malibu's in this weird little uh it's [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► just weird little beard it's like it's [TS]

00:12:16 ◼   ► like a little beard on california for [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► his b crickets where we're not there was [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► less Hollywood the ocean is no longer to [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► the west of malibu the ocean is to the [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► south of malibu malibu points south and [TS]

00:12:31 ◼   ► east that's completely unacceptable [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► so when you're in Malibu and the sun [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► comes up you think oh my god the this [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► the Sun is rising in the north or what I [TS]

00:12:44 ◼   ► mean you cannot you cannot reckon with [TS]

00:12:47 ◼   ► it because you eat your mind is so used [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► to thinking of the Pacific Ocean always [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► to the west always to the west right but [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► really when you stand in Malibu and look [TS]

00:12:55 ◼   ► out at the ocean you're looking south [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► looking toward the Galapagos that's what [TS]

00:13:01 ◼   ► I get the Turtles tortoises that's where [TS]

00:13:04 ◼   ► that's where the tourists come from so [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► it's so it's so this and this is that [TS]

00:13:07 ◼   ► this is true portland oregon tui if you [TS]

00:13:09 ◼   ► get accustomed to thinking that the [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► river in portland oregon runs east-west [TS]

00:13:14 ◼   ► and then you realize that runs [TS]

00:13:16 ◼   ► north-south can't really screw up [TS]

00:13:19 ◼   ► yeah why would you think that because [TS]

00:13:21 ◼   ► because the first time you're in [TS]

00:13:23 ◼   ► portland you get really baked yeah [TS]

00:13:25 ◼   ► totally did [TS]

00:13:26 ◼   ► yeah and now i'm given to believe that [TS]

00:13:29 ◼   ► Portland is it's very flat no one's [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► another city like Budapest there's Hills [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► on one side and flat on the other hand a [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► river in the middle locally-sourced me [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► to the north to the north of Portland [TS]

00:13:45 ◼   ► afternoon I know where this food trucks [TS]

00:13:47 ◼   ► are like this food trucks [TS]

00:13:48 ◼   ► yeah portland i just spent oh it's just [TS]

00:13:51 ◼   ► been a week on the Oregon coast [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► y-yeah I i went down to the oregon coast [TS]

00:13:56 ◼   ► and rented a house what and i sat in the [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► house and heard nothing about this [TS]

00:14:02 ◼   ► well this is the thing I keep keep my [TS]

00:14:05 ◼   ► keep my travels [TS]

00:14:07 ◼   ► the thing about the thing about ok [TS]

00:14:09 ◼   ► announcing to the world that you're on [TS]

00:14:10 ◼   ► the Oregon coast is people can find you [TS]

00:14:12 ◼   ► there they can they can they can explore [TS]

00:14:15 ◼   ► your home so even i mean there are [TS]

00:14:17 ◼   ► certain kinds of information that you [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► are comfortable releasing retro actively [TS]

00:14:22 ◼   ► but your movements your movements in in [TS]

00:14:24 ◼   ► a contemporary sense need to be [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► something that's a need-to-know basis [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► that's right that's that and [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► particularly when I'm going somewhere [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► for to experience a kind of like lonely [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► Beach solitude [TS]

00:14:37 ◼   ► mm I don't want that interview no I [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► don't want somebody like a DJ offer [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► proof fuck time up 13 she wear trousers [TS]

00:14:44 ◼   ► rolled I did but when walking I'm [TS]

00:14:48 ◼   ► walking down the key to teach I didn't [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► have each you know yet you encounter [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► people who are you are out on the beach [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► in the in the dawn light and sometimes [TS]

00:14:58 ◼   ► they have to read dogs sometimes i black [TS]

00:15:02 ◼   ► dog and then you want to meet those [TS]

00:15:05 ◼   ► people on even footing beach footing you [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► don't want to be out there and somebody [TS]

00:15:10 ◼   ► with two red dogs goes super train em [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► and that if I told people I was out [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► there [TS]

00:15:17 ◼   ► yeah butBut so I go to the oregon coast [TS]

00:15:20 ◼   ► and my expectation is it's the middle of [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► January it's going to be a constant [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► like shitty was dark cold wind swept [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► rainy week where I'm gonna sit in this [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► little shingled house and I'm going to [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► shiver and stoke the fire and have lots [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► of deep thoughts and steam and I'm gonna [TS]

00:15:48 ◼   ► steam and instead I get down there and [TS]

00:15:50 ◼   ► it's the sunniest week on record and [TS]

00:15:52 ◼   ► it's just beautiful every day [TS]

00:15:54 ◼   ► Wow and I mean cold it's january but [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► it's it's just beautiful sounds bracing [TS]

00:15:59 ◼   ► it was it was great and you don't have [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► so every day I go and I i start i say [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► i'm going to take a quick walk on the [TS]

00:16:04 ◼   ► beach and then I go and I walk for three [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► and a half hours up and down the beach [TS]

00:16:09 ◼   ► and I did not have as many deep thoughts [TS]

00:16:16 ◼   ► but one of the one of the one of the [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► takeaways was that the oregon coast for [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► me is one of these places that I believe [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► everyone in the world should everyone in [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► the world it's not that everyone in the [TS]

00:16:30 ◼   ► world should experience it but that [TS]

00:16:32 ◼   ► everyone in the world should have access [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► to it it's such a perfect place that I [TS]

00:16:38 ◼   ► almost can't believe that that it isn't [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► part of everyone's lands everyone's [TS]

00:16:44 ◼   ► mental landscape because you know though [TS]

00:16:46 ◼   ► the the state of Oregon the law there is [TS]

00:16:50 ◼   ► that there is no private beach all [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► beaches are public so you can walk from [TS]

00:16:56 ◼   ► the top of Oregon to the bottom if you [TS]

00:16:58 ◼   ► can forward the rivers and and the beach [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► is just what at the beaches are really [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► shallow so when the tide goes out you [TS]

00:17:08 ◼   ► can walk out onto the mudflats seemingly [TS]

00:17:12 ◼   ► forever [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► I don't know it's just a it's just it's [TS]

00:17:15 ◼   ► a it's a place that's always in my [TS]

00:17:17 ◼   ► imagination and we used to go there is [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► when I was a kid so [TS]

00:17:21 ◼   ► so I just got back from there some a [TS]

00:17:23 ◼   ► little dream a little like spaced out [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► I'm him and it doesn't the things it [TS]

00:17:30 ◼   ► doesn't like Portland somehow but the [TS]

00:17:33 ◼   ► back in the old days portland and the [TS]

00:17:36 ◼   ► oregon coast were kind of a symbiotic [TS]

00:17:38 ◼   ► was like the people on the Oregon coast [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► were largely from Portland and Portland [TS]

00:17:42 ◼   ► was this little logging town and it just [TS]

00:17:45 ◼   ► all felt like a kind of a weird I 11 but [TS]

00:17:49 ◼   ► now portland is throbbing with this food [TS]

00:17:52 ◼   ► truck energy and people with the you [TS]

00:17:55 ◼   ► know with sink stoppers in their ears [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► and and the oregon coast is still [TS]

00:18:00 ◼   ► eternal it's it's just it doesn't feel [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► like it's changed at all [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► so the two things now the feels like [TS]

00:18:06 ◼   ► there's a disconnect between Portland [TS]

00:18:08 ◼   ► and that and the beach but you you [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► stayed mostly close to the shingles [TS]

00:18:13 ◼   ► yeah there's a little house that's [TS]

00:18:16 ◼   ► that's basically in the sand dunes [TS]

00:18:18 ◼   ► that's I mean you as a slingshot from [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► the water and I camp out there and you [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► are i mean in as much as you can say we [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► can cut this out but as much as you can [TS]

00:18:31 ◼   ► say you were you are ready for a [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► sabbatical I guess a week ago all it [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► took to just go away and and you're [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► thinking this is going to be a place to [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► get a change of scenery and you you put [TS]

00:18:44 ◼   ► aside the worries of the day and and the [TS]

00:18:47 ◼   ► deep thoughts can flow like the shallot [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► I'd that was your thinking going into it [TS]

00:18:51 ◼   ► yeah but I know that you're you know [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► that you have a lot of feelings on these [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► topics about like the deep thoughts and [TS]

00:18:59 ◼   ► how they flow and I'm i'm beginning to [TS]

00:19:02 ◼   ► end beginning to question whether there [TS]

00:19:06 ◼   ► is any retreat that causes the deep [TS]

00:19:09 ◼   ► thoughts to flow or whether the you know [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► I Merlin I keep looking for the secret [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► key that is going to unlock [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► the to unlock my work and it's going to [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► make me want to make the kinds of things [TS]

00:19:31 ◼   ► that I think I should be making and this [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► is a weird thing because I make things [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► all the time but i have so i have i have [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► a list of things i think i should be [TS]

00:19:39 ◼   ► making right and I can't I couldn't be [TS]

00:19:41 ◼   ► less interested in most of the time in [TS]

00:19:43 ◼   ► making those things and so I keep [TS]

00:19:45 ◼   ► thinking I'm gonna find this key it's [TS]

00:19:47 ◼   ► going to unlock the box where the these [TS]

00:19:50 ◼   ► things that I think I should be making [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► our and they're going to pour out of me [TS]

00:19:53 ◼   ► like they used to like when I was young [TS]

00:19:55 ◼   ► and I didn't think I should be making [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► those things I just did them and i'm [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► gonna read I'm gonna find that again and [TS]

00:20:02 ◼   ► so like I every time i go on tour every [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► time I have a a an interesting moment or [TS]

00:20:10 ◼   ► a fun night i come back and i sit down [TS]

00:20:13 ◼   ► in my chair and I go I'm not I'm fired [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► up [TS]

00:20:16 ◼   ► I'm gonna do this stuff that i really [TS]

00:20:18 ◼   ► think i ought to do and then you I just [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► I just don't put kind of life drive [TS]

00:20:29 ◼   ► trains out of me so I went to the oregon [TS]

00:20:31 ◼   ► coast thinking I was gonna it's gonna [TS]

00:20:33 ◼   ► talk to God in the form of the rhythm of [TS]

00:20:37 ◼   ► his waves and you know i love the waves [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► i stared out Adam maybe even talk to God [TS]

00:20:44 ◼   ► a little bit but it'sit's that like I [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► came back in and ported poured into [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► anything actually well that's not true i [TS]

00:20:52 ◼   ► wrote a long article about how punk-rock [TS]

00:20:54 ◼   ► sucks but that's nobody wants that and [TS]

00:20:58 ◼   ► that would come out anyway [TS]

00:20:59 ◼   ► nobody's that would have everything is [TS]

00:21:01 ◼   ► nobody's interested in it that's about [TS]

00:21:03 ◼   ► what about hard to open jars something [TS]

00:21:05 ◼   ► will be addressing hard to open jars i [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► don't find any way hard candy so costly [TS]

00:21:10 ◼   ► now I don't find the funds that I don't [TS]

00:21:15 ◼   ► find the jars hard to open a hug I don't [TS]

00:21:17 ◼   ► get invited 10 people by trousers that [TS]

00:21:20 ◼   ► fit with what is that you have to be so [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► laughs when I say box i don't mean punk [TS]

00:21:26 ◼   ► rock music [TS]

00:21:28 ◼   ► I mean I mean punk rock well now this [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► heals a rift okay thank you [TS]

00:21:33 ◼   ► ya know punk rock music you know my my [TS]

00:21:36 ◼   ► contention about punk rock music is it's [TS]

00:21:38 ◼   ► not a thing that they like it really [TS]

00:21:41 ◼   ► never was a thing [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► yeah good good punk rock music is just [TS]

00:21:44 ◼   ► good rock music that's true and listen [TS]

00:21:48 ◼   ► listen if you listen to the clash or the [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► ramones or like any good band [TS]

00:21:54 ◼   ► yeah if you listen you listen to what [TS]

00:21:56 ◼   ► you know like axe or wire us into those [TS]

00:22:00 ◼   ► bands you go these are just or talking [TS]

00:22:02 ◼   ► heads you just listen it's like this is [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► a fresh take [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► following a bloated area bloated era [TS]

00:22:07 ◼   ► bloated era that I happen to really like [TS]

00:22:09 ◼   ► but it was there is certainly but [TS]

00:22:13 ◼   ► they're on a continuum from the kinks [TS]

00:22:15 ◼   ► well on a continuum from eddie cochran [TS]

00:22:17 ◼   ► right so there is no punk rock [TS]

00:22:19 ◼   ► ok it's just rock and the stuff that [TS]

00:22:22 ◼   ► that that the best of the could [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► legitimately called punk rock which is [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► like self-conscious art music where it's [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► like Yoko Ono screaming over some [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► intentionally out-of-tune [TS]

00:22:33 ◼   ► instrumentation and you know that's just [TS]

00:22:36 ◼   ► that's that's neither pump more rockets [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► just garbage so I'm pregnant [TS]

00:22:42 ◼   ► punk rock music is just rock music punk [TS]

00:22:47 ◼   ► rock as a philosophy is the thing that I [TS]

00:22:50 ◼   ► think is bullshit [TS]

00:22:51 ◼   ► even in 1976 when the garbage is piling [TS]

00:22:56 ◼   ► up on the streets and there's no jobs no [TS]

00:23:00 ◼   ► is a really good is a really good [TS]

00:23:02 ◼   ► documentary on joy division i I've seen [TS]

00:23:05 ◼   ► alex cox movie about you know seditious [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► and stuff like that yeah you know it's a [TS]

00:23:11 ◼   ► little you know ultimately how [TS]

00:23:13 ◼   ► geographica nightmarish but but i saw [TS]

00:23:15 ◼   ► this really cool documentary on joy [TS]

00:23:17 ◼   ► division i thought was Michael [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► Winterbottom maybe and heated the [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► fiction film anyhow I real Warner bottom [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► yet Michael Winterbottom from the water [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► bottom brothers but now but but what I [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► got from showing this kind of archival [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► footage of what it was like to live in [TS]

00:23:32 ◼   ► manchester in 1976 [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► I mean it was so blighted and everybody [TS]

00:23:37 ◼   ► was living in where they called council [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► flats plastic just these awful the [TS]

00:23:42 ◼   ► looks like something stolen we come up [TS]

00:23:43 ◼   ► with a name and a bad night and there [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► was a time when I don't know why this [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► one really struck in my stuck in my mind [TS]

00:23:49 ◼   ► but I guess there's a strike as you do [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► in England and the garbage piled up on [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► the streets for I guess weeks [TS]

00:23:57 ◼   ► yeah and it was it was blighted it was [TS]

00:24:00 ◼   ► really blighted in you know you listen [TS]

00:24:02 ◼   ► to i don't know how i feel about the sex [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► pistols I you know I think they're quite [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► as good as people say they are but I [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► mean no future in the future I mean it's [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► just these are the best lump [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► mm you think they're better than X yes [TS]

00:24:16 ◼   ► okay but the thing is that better is [TS]

00:24:21 ◼   ► that was the only goes an atom and [TS]

00:24:22 ◼   ► animus alongside things like oh my god [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► Genesis and queen this is the worst [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► which I disagree with you don't think [TS]

00:24:29 ◼   ► that was an animus but the the blight of [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► northern England also produced black [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► sabbath which is one of the great one of [TS]

00:24:38 ◼   ► the great rock experiences a question [TS]

00:24:40 ◼   ► the thing about punk rock philosophy the [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► reason that I think it is bullshit and [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► and I say that even acknowledging that [TS]

00:24:49 ◼   ► punk rock as a like as a corner of youth [TS]

00:24:54 ◼   ► culture was very important to people i [TS]

00:24:57 ◼   ► have a lot of friends who claim that [TS]

00:25:00 ◼   ► punk rock the culture saved their lives [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► and it was the family that they didn't [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► have and it was and it was a place where [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► they were all there maybe they felt like [TS]

00:25:12 ◼   ► they fit in for once [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► well yeah and and I a man that thing is [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► that you could people say that same [TS]

00:25:18 ◼   ► thing about Scientology you know it's a [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► place where your fashion questions your [TS]

00:25:23 ◼   ► music questions your political questions [TS]

00:25:25 ◼   ► and your social questions are all [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► answered in one place [TS]

00:25:28 ◼   ► oh its stock triangle and your it [TS]

00:25:30 ◼   ► absolutely is nur 14 years old and so [TS]

00:25:33 ◼   ► you walk into this you walk into this [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► meeting hall and you're like oh my god I [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► finally i'm home and i understand that [TS]

00:25:41 ◼   ► that is that has a powerful emotional [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► effect on people and even though a lot [TS]

00:25:45 ◼   ► of these people now are 45 and 50 years [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► old [TS]

00:25:48 ◼   ► they cannot they cannot look at punk [TS]

00:25:52 ◼   ► rock with it with a clear I but the [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► reality is that punk rock as a [TS]

00:25:58 ◼   ► philosophy as us as a social philosophy [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► is it is intrinsically negative it is [TS]

00:26:05 ◼   ► and tie reactionary and it is reaction [TS]

00:26:09 ◼   ► exactly and then anyway fascist but but [TS]

00:26:14 ◼   ► it does not have it is not pro anything [TS]

00:26:19 ◼   ► it is anti-everything it lets you know [TS]

00:26:23 ◼   ► what it is supposed to it never really [TS]

00:26:26 ◼   ► stipulates what it's for [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► it's like a fourteen-year-old boy island [TS]

00:26:29 ◼   ► is what hates all he knows what hates [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► and then and that has and that has four [TS]

00:26:34 ◼   ► certainly you're in my generation that [TS]

00:26:36 ◼   ► mentality we because punk rock was also [TS]

00:26:41 ◼   ► cool because that was because you know [TS]

00:26:43 ◼   ► that was where a lot of the that was the [TS]

00:26:46 ◼   ► genesis point of a lot of the stuff that [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► we liked and particularly and like I [TS]

00:26:52 ◼   ► mean anytime you're you're in a sort of [TS]

00:26:54 ◼   ► a mind-control posture if you can attach [TS]

00:26:57 ◼   ► it to a good rock music you got half the [TS]

00:27:00 ◼   ► people right there where they don't even [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► have to think about what it's about [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► that's why that's why christians are so [TS]

00:27:07 ◼   ► interested in making rock music now you [TS]

00:27:09 ◼   ► know it's a great way to get inside of [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► people's heads and get them before [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► they're really thinking critically so [TS]

00:27:16 ◼   ► all through the eighties and nineties we [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► has a generation internalised this punk [TS]

00:27:26 ◼   ► rock critical eye which was which all it [TS]

00:27:31 ◼   ► could say was that sucks that sucks that [TS]

00:27:33 ◼   ► sucks that sucks it at it never espoused [TS]

00:27:38 ◼   ► like its own concept of beauty and so I [TS]

00:27:45 ◼   ► think personally I know what they did [TS]

00:27:48 ◼   ► want really punk rock songs right there [TS]

00:27:50 ◼   ► is anything when like when yr on yr [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► things outdoor minor which is a gorgeous [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► based on almost a ballad or or when you [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► know I mean how different is [TS]

00:28:01 ◼   ► you know something from london calling [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► from almost every spring because I don't [TS]

00:28:06 ◼   ► start things but from from like a [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► restoring like proto power anthem almost [TS]

00:28:12 ◼   ► well now Green Day is basically his pet [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► is basically making music like ELO like [TS]

00:28:20 ◼   ► the Buzzcocks with press releases its [TS]

00:28:22 ◼   ► come all the way it's come full circle [TS]

00:28:25 ◼   ► but but again leaving the music side and [TS]

00:28:28 ◼   ► just talking about the talking about [TS]

00:28:30 ◼   ► punk rock as us as a social phenomenon [TS]

00:28:33 ◼   ► of fashion movement a way of criticizing [TS]

00:28:36 ◼   ► culture which you know which it deeply [TS]

00:28:39 ◼   ► profoundly is punk rock draws a line on [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► everything is it punk or is it not in [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► and you know and that's where that's [TS]

00:28:47 ◼   ► where indie-rock got the concept that [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► selling out was the ugliest thing you [TS]

00:28:51 ◼   ► could do you know that whole business of [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► can't like what with Johnny Rotten think [TS]

00:28:56 ◼   ► of this decision [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► exactly and death cab for cutie we're [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► asking themselves that question what [TS]

00:29:00 ◼   ► would Johnny Rotten think I mean through [TS]

00:29:02 ◼   ► through the through of three different [TS]

00:29:04 ◼   ► filters i mean they weren't actually [TS]

00:29:05 ◼   ► thinking about trying rotten but but you [TS]

00:29:08 ◼   ► know a sunny day real estate wouldn't do [TS]

00:29:12 ◼   ► interviews right on their first record [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► builders belen Sebastian wouldn't be [TS]

00:29:17 ◼   ► photographed unless every single person [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► like nine people in the band were all in [TS]

00:29:21 ◼   ► the photo right and Eddie Vetter drove [TS]

00:29:23 ◼   ► across America you know uninsulated ford [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► van while his bandmates flew from show [TS]

00:29:29 ◼   ► to show in their own private 747 keeping [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► her because he was keeping it real [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► via mike watt via John Iran be you know [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► and so we all have been carrying this [TS]

00:29:43 ◼   ► around in us everybody our generation [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► and I think everybody from 30 to 50 this [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► idea everything every time we make [TS]

00:29:50 ◼   ► something we look at it and go punk or [TS]

00:29:53 ◼   ► not [TS]

00:29:54 ◼   ► Oh God not punk enough garbage can I'm [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► comin around comin around okay so you [TS]

00:30:00 ◼   ► know so anyway so ultimately I feel like [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► what [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► and the reason I'm saying this now is [TS]

00:30:04 ◼   ► that I look at the look at the [TS]

00:30:05 ◼   ► generation that is finally throwing this [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► in the garbage which is this this newest [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► generation 20 to 25 year-olds who are [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► making stuff [TS]

00:30:14 ◼   ► now and they you know I think they look [TS]

00:30:18 ◼   ► at their cultural patrimony and they see [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► a bunch of like whiny millionaires and [TS]

00:30:25 ◼   ► they see the last the last vestiges of [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► that kind of pitchfork II like a sellout [TS]

00:30:33 ◼   ► is rights that this is hack the my kids [TS]

00:30:38 ◼   ► that are 22 or like you know it just [TS]

00:30:41 ◼   ► seems like that's how old people put the [TS]

00:30:44 ◼   ► end up the end up starting if you [TS]

00:30:45 ◼   ► allowed to happen yourself and it [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► certainly happened to me is you end up [TS]

00:30:48 ◼   ► starting whatever you call career with a [TS]

00:30:50 ◼   ► certain amount of cultural baggage right [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► about what the previous generation would [TS]

00:30:54 ◼   ► think which is not so different from [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► going to eatin right exactly absolutely [TS]

00:30:58 ◼   ► and the the kids now I think are just [TS]

00:31:00 ◼   ► like fuck it right and they they they [TS]

00:31:03 ◼   ► take the they take a little bit of the [TS]

00:31:06 ◼   ► sneer but none of the self criticism and [TS]

00:31:09 ◼   ► they just want to dance and they're just [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► being kids again and they seem like a [TS]

00:31:13 ◼   ► much more [TS]

00:31:15 ◼   ► oh my god and praise be to God that they [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► are making culture much more [TS]

00:31:21 ◼   ► lightheartedly and right you know you [TS]

00:31:23 ◼   ► look at Lena denim or done Homer over [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► that girl is that's making girls and and [TS]

00:31:29 ◼   ► their this generation is there just as [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► smart as we ever were but they are [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► having a they're having a little bit [TS]

00:31:38 ◼   ► more fun because they aren't when she is [TS]

00:31:41 ◼   ► doing something more profound and more [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► likely to endure in some ways yeah [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► because they're not because they aren't [TS]

00:31:48 ◼   ► self-censoring based on up like a [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► fundamental principle that if you are [TS]

00:31:54 ◼   ► not approaching the world with [TS]

00:31:55 ◼   ► negativity then you are part of the ear [TS]

00:31:59 ◼   ► part of the capitalists oh you know [TS]

00:32:02 ◼   ► larki right you've got me you got me [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► thinking about this and there's certain [TS]

00:32:06 ◼   ► exhibit [TS]

00:32:07 ◼   ► ok so I mean I personally never have [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► thought the germs were all that great [TS]

00:32:13 ◼   ► they kind of phoned it in think about [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► what's enduring about like Agent Orange [TS]

00:32:19 ◼   ► mm I mean that's so many armies now [TS]

00:32:22 ◼   ► it'sit's that what is that that's that's [TS]

00:32:24 ◼   ► like the the ventures with spit right [TS]

00:32:26 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► haha but here's what's interviewing [TS]

00:32:30 ◼   ► wondering about it i mean we take away [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► sure you i mean i think there's [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► something to be taken away from the [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► color stuff to think about this think [TS]

00:32:35 ◼   ► about how much of of the enduring legacy [TS]

00:32:40 ◼   ► that made bands like your previous bands [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► you know it's you might have inspired [TS]

00:32:45 ◼   ► you think about you know a lot of it [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► some of it is cultural I mean you're [TS]

00:32:48 ◼   ► never you're very unlikely in context to [TS]

00:32:51 ◼   ► ever get weirder than screamin jay [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► hawkins hawkins nobody's ever going to [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► be that weird just given like what he [TS]

00:32:58 ◼   ► was alongside in those days [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► absolutely but think about this think [TS]

00:33:02 ◼   ► about the the real and again I'm [TS]

00:33:05 ◼   ► certainly guilty of the have geography [TS]

00:33:06 ◼   ► here for every one of these but number [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► one I don't think people really [TS]

00:33:11 ◼   ► understand what independent music meant [TS]

00:33:15 ◼   ► in the mid to late seventies because the [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► Buzzcocks very few people have been as [TS]

00:33:19 ◼   ► independent as the Buzzcocks they like [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► practically press the records they made [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► their own covers like they almost [TS]

00:33:25 ◼   ► single-handedly invented independent [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► music what is that [TS]

00:33:29 ◼   ► well that ends up being a business [TS]

00:33:30 ◼   ► decision because there was not there is [TS]

00:33:33 ◼   ► not a forum or maybe a former for [TS]

00:33:35 ◼   ► promoting them but there weren't that [TS]

00:33:36 ◼   ► many people out there who are going to [TS]

00:33:38 ◼   ► invest in them and they really did [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► literally do it themselves like say what [TS]

00:33:41 ◼   ► you will about the emek I it but the [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► thing is we remember we remember discord [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► for their like we won't play a show the [TS]

00:33:48 ◼   ► cost more than seven dollars will ever [TS]

00:33:49 ◼   ► again what they did was a business [TS]

00:33:51 ◼   ► decision they created a sustainable [TS]

00:33:53 ◼   ► business by being lean and by and by [TS]

00:33:56 ◼   ► supporting artists that they really [TS]

00:33:58 ◼   ► believed in and they all we all live in [TS]

00:34:01 ◼   ► the in the aftermath of that like they [TS]

00:34:04 ◼   ► created that and we met and that is why [TS]

00:34:06 ◼   ► I don't that's why there's a bar sook [TS]

00:34:08 ◼   ► that's where there's a bar soap that's [TS]

00:34:09 ◼   ► absolutely smitten and the final and [TS]

00:34:11 ◼   ► again this is going to be the most [TS]

00:34:12 ◼   ► hydrographic I'm ready get can be wrong [TS]

00:34:14 ◼   ► about this but you know I think this is [TS]

00:34:16 ◼   ► in some ways extremely true which is the [TS]

00:34:18 ◼   ► SST bands including especially people [TS]

00:34:20 ◼   ► like black flag they worked really hard [TS]

00:34:23 ◼   ► and only autos hard as Rollins makes it [TS]

00:34:26 ◼   ► sound yeah I don't mean at the same time [TS]

00:34:28 ◼   ► I mean I'd I only saw the Minutemen once [TS]

00:34:31 ◼   ► and I saw the band after that a couple [TS]

00:34:34 ◼   ► times but I mean I really believe that [TS]

00:34:36 ◼   ► my quad is it is a pretty hard-working [TS]

00:34:37 ◼   ► guy but the thing is they got in a van [TS]

00:34:39 ◼   ► and they drove [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► because of the community that they could [TS]

00:34:42 ◼   ► develop they were able to blaze a trail [TS]

00:34:45 ◼   ► that people are still driving their van [TS]

00:34:46 ◼   ► down till this day but what game what is [TS]

00:34:48 ◼   ► that it's business and its work all the [TS]

00:34:51 ◼   ► enduring things in all this where people [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► who actually decided to be dedicated to [TS]

00:34:54 ◼   ► doing the work which is not nearly the [TS]

00:34:56 ◼   ► same thing as starting out going like I [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► want you know I want safety pins in my [TS]

00:35:01 ◼   ► jacket or whatever ya want to work but [TS]

00:35:04 ◼   ► and then that that's absolutely true and [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► it is the it is the lack of ability to [TS]

00:35:11 ◼   ► acknowledge that it is a business [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► decision that all of those groups that [TS]

00:35:15 ◼   ► you just mentioned I mean all of those [TS]

00:35:17 ◼   ► innovations really you could write up an [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► article for Fast Company about each one [TS]

00:35:24 ◼   ► of those characters like a startup that [TS]

00:35:26 ◼   ► works there let's start up the works but [TS]

00:35:28 ◼   ► the but it like threaded through the [TS]

00:35:34 ◼   ► philosophy of each one of those [TS]

00:35:35 ◼   ► organizations was a rejection and denial [TS]

00:35:40 ◼   ► that business was a was what they were [TS]

00:35:42 ◼   ► doing this is at least not big business [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► right [TS]

00:35:45 ◼   ► they want they wanted to have enough to [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► put gas in the van but that's the thing [TS]

00:35:49 ◼   ► they were not proud of it and that if [TS]

00:35:51 ◼   ► you read that Rollins book for he's [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► talking about he's talking about being [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► on tour [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► there's this cognitive disconnect [TS]

00:35:58 ◼   ► because on one page she's like so we got [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► to chicago we sold out the metro and [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► there was a line around the block man [TS]

00:36:05 ◼   ► right i was riding in the back of a box [TS]

00:36:09 ◼   ► truck from shows to show from chose to [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► shows and I was peeing in a mason jar [TS]

00:36:14 ◼   ► and and when you have sold out the metro [TS]

00:36:19 ◼   ► or played the metro you realize that [TS]

00:36:20 ◼   ► even if you're only charging five [TS]

00:36:22 ◼   ► dollars ahead to sell out the metro is [TS]

00:36:25 ◼   ► to have money you are earning money at [TS]

00:36:28 ◼   ► this point it is a it is a bit of a big [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► venue and you're in your posting your [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► ego [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► uh well you're boosting your ego but but [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► more than that you have arrived at a [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► place where you do not need to go from [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► show to show in the back of a box truck [TS]

00:36:42 ◼   ► so if you're doing it you are doing it [TS]

00:36:47 ◼   ► you are doing it intentionally you know [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► you are choosing it's like shoes and a [TS]

00:36:52 ◼   ► heart chosen they've done this [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► impossible thing of choosing to be in [TS]

00:36:55 ◼   ► the proletariat yeah Rollins is either [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► lying which I which partly I think is [TS]

00:37:00 ◼   ► true or he is self mythologizing in the [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► moment right he's waking up in the [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► morning in the morning and there is a [TS]

00:37:07 ◼   ► there is a tour manager or there's [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► somebody standing there with an envelope [TS]

00:37:10 ◼   ► full of cash and they are they are [TS]

00:37:13 ◼   ► pretending it's not there and they're [TS]

00:37:15 ◼   ► continuing to 2a you know to pee and [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► jars and live at the end roll from show [TS]

00:37:23 ◼   ► to show in a 50-gallon drum because [TS]

00:37:25 ◼   ► because to get your own hotel room is [TS]

00:37:27 ◼   ► bullshit you know and I got picked up at [TS]

00:37:29 ◼   ► the airport one time by Bob Weston and [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► big black yea big black and he picked me [TS]

00:37:36 ◼   ► up at the airport in be big black van [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► and it is afford band that is just [TS]

00:37:42 ◼   ► exactly like you imagine the Minutemen [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► toward in it is the van that the big [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► black torrent and it's a 75 you know or [TS]

00:37:50 ◼   ► 78 read for bandwidth no paneling so [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► it's just the you know it's just the [TS]

00:37:56 ◼   ► sheet metal and there are no seats in [TS]

00:37:58 ◼   ► the van there's like there's like a a a [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► loveseat that somebody drags like [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► sitting in steve albini guitar if it's [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► like that it's like it's like a stakeout [TS]

00:38:07 ◼   ► metallic and uncomfortable it's like [TS]

00:38:10 ◼   ► sitting in a chair that you bet somebody [TS]

00:38:12 ◼   ► made out of steve albini earwax and you [TS]

00:38:17 ◼   ► know and and the thing has 350,000 miles [TS]

00:38:19 ◼   ► on it and it's got backstage passes from [TS]

00:38:22 ◼   ► Stowe's you know but but not like [TS]

00:38:25 ◼   ► self-consciously but just like [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► haphazardly stuck on the walls and he's [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► like hey man sorry I could you know i [TS]

00:38:33 ◼   ► had to get the truck running and here we [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► go but we're all and and it was great it [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► was super cool to be in this this BAM [TS]

00:38:43 ◼   ► but you know Bob Weston was first [TS]

00:38:45 ◼   ► engineer on in utero right right Bob [TS]

00:38:51 ◼   ► Weston is a significant get points on [TS]

00:38:56 ◼   ► that [TS]

00:38:57 ◼   ► well he got paid for it right okay and [TS]

00:39:00 ◼   ► he got a credit on honor but she got [TS]

00:39:03 ◼   ► yeah [TS]

00:39:04 ◼   ► and.and that and if you look at Bob [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► Weston cv and i don't mean to throw him [TS]

00:39:08 ◼   ► under the bus he's a wonderful man but [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► he is you know part and parcel of of our [TS]

00:39:14 ◼   ► entire culture up that that it that [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► descends from punk rock which is that [TS]

00:39:20 ◼   ► this and the thing is if there was a [TS]

00:39:23 ◼   ► winking acknowledgement of like yeah I [TS]

00:39:26 ◼   ► mean isn't this band great like I this [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► is this is a piece of living history [TS]

00:39:31 ◼   ► link is like he has no traffic Conestoga [TS]

00:39:33 ◼   ► wagon but i think i can do is i suppose [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► i could afford something a little more [TS]

00:39:38 ◼   ► modern [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► yeah if any of us for the last 25 years [TS]

00:39:43 ◼   ► were able to still look to wink and say [TS]

00:39:45 ◼   ► yeah i know i could be driving a better [TS]

00:39:48 ◼   ► car but I drive this because i know it's [TS]

00:39:51 ◼   ► cool it's a it's a it is part of history [TS]

00:39:54 ◼   ► and its and I know that picking you up [TS]

00:39:56 ◼   ► at the airport in this van is impressive [TS]

00:39:58 ◼   ► to you and it's like it's like an A&R [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► guy with yeah let's all sit here and [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► like and just like just like give [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► ourselves a little bit of of crotch [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► pleasure [TS]

00:40:10 ◼   ► let's just gently stroke ourselves [TS]

00:40:13 ◼   ► knowing that we're in big black band and [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► Mike watch shot near once but in fact [TS]

00:40:19 ◼   ► but in fact for the last 25 years we had [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► we have not let's be honest we if if you [TS]

00:40:24 ◼   ► think that there has been that element [TS]

00:40:26 ◼   ► of fun in our culture you are [TS]

00:40:29 ◼   ► misremembering it because Bob Weston [TS]

00:40:31 ◼   ► pick me up in that van with the pretense [TS]

00:40:35 ◼   ► that that was his car and that was what [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► he could afford and that was how you [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► kept it you know and and and so and [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► that's been true of everything we've [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► done as a as a youth culture that's now [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► moved into middle age where it's just [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► like oh yeah sorry man I couldn't you [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► know I would've been here earlier but i [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► had to i was out getting frizzy and fit [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► to poor people [TS]

00:41:00 ◼   ► yeah i was working at the needle [TS]

00:41:02 ◼   ► exchange and it's just like wait a [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► fucking minute no you weren't and that [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► at some one thing is when I look at the [TS]

00:41:08 ◼   ► kids now i see they have taken all of [TS]

00:41:11 ◼   ► that David they've adopted the fashion [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► they've taken the taking the fun parts [TS]

00:41:16 ◼   ► of that [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► and it's why it that's why they they're [TS]

00:41:19 ◼   ► a little bit incomprehensible to us [TS]

00:41:20 ◼   ► because it's like with wait a minute why [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► are you having fun [TS]

00:41:23 ◼   ► you don't get to have fun you're making [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► one is it's not so different from me [TS]

00:41:26 ◼   ► being 46 in choosing to wear a shirt [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► with a comic book character on it [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► I i have i have the means i know we [TS]

00:41:32 ◼   ► having fun [TS]

00:41:33 ◼   ► oh yeah I am but it's partly nostalgic [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► is partly something I feel like I'm is [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► but you know you said something about to [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► being being middle-aged and I think that [TS]

00:41:42 ◼   ► can't be overlooked I mean you know when [TS]

00:41:45 ◼   ► you're younger you sure have more energy [TS]

00:41:46 ◼   ► can put up with more you were creating [TS]

00:41:49 ◼   ► memories that you will someday be [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► nostalgic about but you know think about [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► how many of those bands again you know [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► going back to a time when you let's say [TS]

00:41:59 ◼   ► you start I can't think of a specific [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► manner of the bus costs to come to my [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► joy division comes to mind [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► I mean a lot of that was you didn't have [TS]

00:42:06 ◼   ► nobody came in right with the suitcase [TS]

00:42:09 ◼   ► full of money but when you had the [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► opportunity i mean joy division became [TS]

00:42:13 ◼   ► new order and new order became huge and [TS]

00:42:18 ◼   ► the thing is you might have gotten [TS]

00:42:19 ◼   ► signed to mute or you might have gotten [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► signed to i mean you know i am was an [TS]

00:42:25 ◼   ► independent label for a pretty long time [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► and you know and and thank God they put [TS]

00:42:29 ◼   ► out the police you know what I mean they [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► became a major on trying to say though [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► is that when you do for lack of a better [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► word grow up a little bit you might [TS]

00:42:39 ◼   ► think about something like well you know [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► what if I really care about what I'm [TS]

00:42:43 ◼   ► making a I'm gonna need the means to do [TS]

00:42:46 ◼   ► that for a living and not have to work [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► at haagen dazs and then be when you no [TS]

00:42:50 ◼   ► longer have to work at Hadassah and [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► that's all just kind of put on you start [TS]

00:42:55 ◼   ► to realize the extent to which you are a [TS]

00:42:58 ◼   ► white kid who could drive around in a [TS]

00:43:00 ◼   ► band and and draw a crowd this is an old [TS]

00:43:02 ◼   ► argument but if you ask most African [TS]

00:43:05 ◼   ► American people who are living in [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► poverty they would love to have have [TS]

00:43:09 ◼   ► even that freedom to get in a van and [TS]

00:43:10 ◼   ► drive around a heartbeat but they can't [TS]

00:43:12 ◼   ► they got stuff to do their work in a [TS]

00:43:13 ◼   ► factory sorry sorry about punk rock here [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► but that's really true you know a friend [TS]

00:43:17 ◼   ► of mine always used to say you can't [TS]

00:43:19 ◼   ► choose to join the proletariat because [TS]

00:43:21 ◼   ► if you choose to do that [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► you still implicitly have the net of [TS]

00:43:25 ◼   ► being a white man who can walk anywhere [TS]

00:43:26 ◼   ► and be the norm [TS]

00:43:28 ◼   ► and and you know it but you're you are [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► making the arguments that I feel like [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► still from within this that the [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► punk-rock mentality like we at with the [TS]

00:43:37 ◼   ► idea that we even need to explain that [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► we are that it's okay to enjoy success [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► is we we we've been doing our whole [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► lives so that we feel we feel like we've [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► we forget that it is a technology and I [TS]

00:43:53 ◼   ► feel like punk rock came punk rock came [TS]

00:43:56 ◼   ► up not just in the blighted a like like [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► shit scape of Manchester and to a lesser [TS]

00:44:05 ◼   ► extent los angeles in the late seventies [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► but also not to just always be hammering [TS]

00:44:12 ◼   ► on this but in in the Cold War you know [TS]

00:44:16 ◼   ► during a time when it seemed like it [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► wasn't just that the rich people like [TS]

00:44:22 ◼   ► they are now the rich people just seem [TS]

00:44:24 ◼   ► like they're greedy they're stealing [TS]

00:44:27 ◼   ► they are they're just sucking bone [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► marrow and they're just lame [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► there they are they're ugly their course [TS]

00:44:35 ◼   ► but but but we forget that 35 years ago [TS]

00:44:41 ◼   ► 40 years ago those people also we [TS]

00:44:44 ◼   ► perceive them i guess maybe mostly we [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► perceive them as having their finger on [TS]

00:44:50 ◼   ► the red button that was going to that [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► was going to annihilate all of human [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► like they were part they were part of we [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► perceived and probably true that they [TS]

00:44:58 ◼   ► were part of a system that elected the [TS]

00:45:00 ◼   ► people who are keeping is really close [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► to the football game opened right and so [TS]

00:45:04 ◼   ► that paranoia i couldn't i could see and [TS]

00:45:08 ◼   ► understand why why initially punk rock [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► had this we're anti-everything mentality [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► because to join that world at all to [TS]

00:45:20 ◼   ► even to go so far as to like eat a [TS]

00:45:22 ◼   ► hamburger at McDonalds you were [TS]

00:45:24 ◼   ► contributing not just to a world where [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► there were rich people who got to have [TS]

00:45:28 ◼   ► swimming pools but you are contributing [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► to a bankrupt a morally bankrupt world [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► that was teetering on the edge of [TS]

00:45:38 ◼   ► mutually assured destruction [TS]

00:45:40 ◼   ► so there wasn't a way to participate [TS]

00:45:42 ◼   ► where you were complicit and so punk [TS]

00:45:46 ◼   ► rock was anti everything so you have you [TS]

00:45:48 ◼   ► had to make something that was kind of [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► ugly [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► you had to know you were you eat it was [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► the only moral choice but that has not [TS]

00:45:55 ◼   ► been the case for 21 years [TS]

00:45:59 ◼   ► yeah you know and so up so that and and [TS]

00:46:05 ◼   ► the reality is looking back punk rock's [TS]

00:46:08 ◼   ► response to the Cold War really when you [TS]

00:46:12 ◼   ► broke it down when you really read the [TS]

00:46:14 ◼   ► scenes was just a garbled mix of like [TS]

00:46:17 ◼   ► like revolutionary marxism and I mean it [TS]

00:46:21 ◼   ► was it was nothing new it was just it [TS]

00:46:23 ◼   ► was just the dregs of a of a you know of [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► a city college education like sandanista [TS]

00:46:31 ◼   ► really do you know what the Sandinistas [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► we're up to [TS]

00:46:34 ◼   ► not a great record and it's and then [TS]

00:46:36 ◼   ► they are and the Sandinistas sucked you [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► know and to put to put to wave that flag [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► was just was was to was to exhibit how [TS]

00:46:46 ◼   ► little you knew and how how mute and [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► impotent your response to it really was [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► like punk rock did not smash the state [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► it did not end the Cold War punk rock [TS]

00:46:57 ◼   ► did not save us from from basically 12 [TS]

00:47:02 ◼   ► years of Imperial Bush family punk rock [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► did not do shit except you know and and [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► when it when it turned into grunge when [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► punk rock made that transition into [TS]

00:47:13 ◼   ► grunge it continue to not do shit we did [TS]

00:47:16 ◼   ► not even defeat ticketmaster like all we [TS]

00:47:22 ◼   ► did all it did is what you're describing [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► which is it started an alternate model [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► for financing music and culture addy at [TS]

00:47:32 ◼   ► the DIY right concept is the only [TS]

00:47:35 ◼   ► positive product aside from the fact [TS]

00:47:38 ◼   ► that some great music got made [TS]

00:47:40 ◼   ► but philosophically DIY is the only [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► thing that came up in weight and without [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► we're going with that we're going and [TS]

00:47:47 ◼   ► you know to whatever china but we really [TS]

00:47:49 ◼   ► discovered was the maps are reliable and [TS]

00:47:51 ◼   ► hey West Indies [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► haha right and here are my intention [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► unintended consequences that you start [TS]

00:47:58 ◼   ► out with this this ethos and you know I [TS]

00:48:00 ◼   ► don't say it's freaky things I wasn't [TS]

00:48:02 ◼   ► there but I mean you start out with an [TS]

00:48:03 ◼   ► easy thing you're young you know I mean [TS]

00:48:05 ◼   ► are off from you really weren't [TS]

00:48:07 ◼   ► I mean we were there what what did we [TS]

00:48:08 ◼   ► get when we just wanted we join that [TS]

00:48:10 ◼   ► culture 1980 yeah i mean i-i everything [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► and this is this is you know another old [TS]

00:48:16 ◼   ► man point but also everything so many of [TS]

00:48:19 ◼   ► the things that we get to enjoy even [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► started when i was there were filtered [TS]

00:48:23 ◼   ► already you know two or three times [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► through you know I let's put it this way [TS]

00:48:28 ◼   ► I i would not have discovered a lot of [TS]

00:48:31 ◼   ► that music without your community radio [TS]

00:48:33 ◼   ► but also like independent record record [TS]

00:48:35 ◼   ► stores and a lot of times it was pretty [TS]

00:48:37 ◼   ► easy to go buy a copy of never mind the [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► bollocks at you know record bar it but [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► independent record stores were thing not [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► because they were response to the [TS]

00:48:46 ◼   ► corporate record world independent [TS]

00:48:48 ◼   ► record stores were just a business model [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► they were closed and it was a specialty [TS]

00:48:51 ◼   ► stores like a comic shop [TS]

00:48:52 ◼   ► yeah and that what we're discovering now [TS]

00:48:55 ◼   ► what I'm seeing now is that DIY is [TS]

00:48:59 ◼   ► finally divorced from the idea that it [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► is against business and DIY is just now [TS]

00:49:08 ◼   ► a business model and taking it away from [TS]

00:49:12 ◼   ► this idea that DIY is against business [TS]

00:49:15 ◼   ► you don't have young bands were like we [TS]

00:49:17 ◼   ► don't do interviews we don't want your [TS]

00:49:20 ◼   ► filthy lucre it's just the house say [TS]

00:49:23 ◼   ► everything I've got sand facebook [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► yeah that's right if you what do you [TS]

00:49:27 ◼   ► know about good thanks what they had and [TS]

00:49:30 ◼   ► it's like fuck fuck wait a minute [TS]

00:49:32 ◼   ► it never was DIY was never a like an [TS]

00:49:39 ◼   ► alternative to business it was just a [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► form of business like if you put out a [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► record is because you want people to [TS]

00:49:47 ◼   ► hear it you want them to essentially to [TS]

00:49:50 ◼   ► to buy it otherwise you would press [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► those records in and giving them away [TS]

00:49:53 ◼   ► but but you know here's the other thing [TS]

00:49:55 ◼   ► is it I don't you tell me this is BS but [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► on the punk rock is if nothing else [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► extremely subconscious force excuse me [TS]

00:50:04 ◼   ► extremely self-conscious [TS]

00:50:06 ◼   ► you are yes you as we stipulated you're [TS]

00:50:08 ◼   ► actively reacting to something else [TS]

00:50:11 ◼   ► mostly in a negative way but I mean I'm [TS]

00:50:14 ◼   ► never going on about people like to shop [TS]

00:50:16 ◼   ► or whatever but like there's always been [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► a self-consciousness and art but you can [TS]

00:50:22 ◼   ► produce something of enduring value with [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► that self-consciousness if you're--if [TS]

00:50:25 ◼   ► Casso is reacting saison we came up with [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► some pretty good stuff and figured out [TS]

00:50:30 ◼   ► how to make a living out of it just [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► you've got you've got to create more [TS]

00:50:34 ◼   ► than just a poorly written manifesto [TS]

00:50:37 ◼   ► right and and the thing is Picasso [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► rejected the artists that come before [TS]

00:50:43 ◼   ► him but and and poured a brilliant new [TS]

00:50:47 ◼   ► he said with the abbot you look at this [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► about it he didn't just go there but [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► what he didn't do was say I no longer [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► represented by a dealer in Paris my [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► artwork should be free you know Picasso [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► used the same dealers that is that is [TS]

00:51:08 ◼   ► for animals proud to use the same [TS]

00:51:10 ◼   ► dealers that is that the guys that came [TS]

00:51:11 ◼   ► before him did it was punk rock was the [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► first real thing that said we reject the [TS]

00:51:19 ◼   ► we reject commerce because commerce has [TS]

00:51:24 ◼   ► produced the bomb and or so or or the or [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► the class system or its responsible for [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► hunger or like any ill you can find you [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► can strap on to this quote-unquote big [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► system [TS]

00:51:40 ◼   ► absolutely and if you if you if you [TS]

00:51:42 ◼   ► collect eighties punk-rock azines like i [TS]

00:51:46 ◼   ► do and read the screens in there there [TS]

00:51:52 ◼   ► is no liberal cause that punk rock won't [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► attach itself to read and i don't i [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► don't mean liberal because punk-rock [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► ultimately really extremely conservative [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► was a libertarian philosophy like at [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► Anarchy with the big a in a circle is [TS]

00:52:09 ◼   ► just tea party [TS]

00:52:13 ◼   ► hit you using it'sit's gun gun nuts in [TS]

00:52:19 ◼   ► leather jacket basically you know it is [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► it is leave me alone [TS]

00:52:24 ◼   ► why should I have to do that right why [TS]

00:52:26 ◼   ► should we do but did not as awesome me [TS]

00:52:29 ◼   ► you're not the boss of me it is a bratty [TS]

00:52:32 ◼   ► teen age philosophy that is you know now [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► of course promulgated mostly by these [TS]

00:52:39 ◼   ► people with PT Cruisers but that's what [TS]

00:52:44 ◼   ► I'm you know secrets [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► I'd I swear to you the people who were [TS]

00:52:49 ◼   ► reading iron Rand in 1984 were all I [TS]

00:52:55 ◼   ► mean either the drummer of rush or that [TS]

00:52:59 ◼   ► this this like this subset this the but [TS]

00:53:02 ◼   ► the kind of the place where ponytails [TS]

00:53:04 ◼   ► and punk rock meet if it is thank you [TS]

00:53:09 ◼   ► is it is anarchy / libertarianism right [TS]

00:53:14 ◼   ► so anyway I I feel hopeful for the [TS]

00:53:18 ◼   ► future but I really feel like we need to [TS]

00:53:20 ◼   ► look back as a as a people and I'm talk [TS]

00:53:23 ◼   ► about our generation in particular look [TS]

00:53:25 ◼   ► back and say wait a minute this was [TS]

00:53:27 ◼   ► bullshit the whole time we did not need [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► or not maybe not the whole time but we [TS]

00:53:32 ◼   ► inherited a thing that we did not [TS]

00:53:33 ◼   ► understand we adopted we adopted this [TS]

00:53:37 ◼   ► this mentality that for things to be [TS]

00:53:41 ◼   ► good they had to prove they weren't shit [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► and that you know that that money and [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► business were intrinsically inherently [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► immoral and it was and it was garbage [TS]

00:53:52 ◼   ► and it handicapped but it also but you [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► know how you're talking about people who [TS]

00:53:56 ◼   ► would think you're weird best thing [TS]

00:53:58 ◼   ► about how would with Johnny Rotten [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► approve this you also as creative as you [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► might have thought you were you had a [TS]

00:54:04 ◼   ► clear progenitor progenitor that you [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► wanted to please and that [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► self-consciousness might lead you you [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► know to to make this something with this [TS]

00:54:15 ◼   ► certain drum beating do you recognize [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► that that's actually a jumpy from noi or [TS]

00:54:19 ◼   ► whatever you know that there's this [TS]

00:54:20 ◼   ► there's this when you say like this is [TS]

00:54:23 ◼   ► the would like doctrinal conservative [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► thing I i look at [TS]

00:54:26 ◼   ► somebody I don't know what's your [TS]

00:54:27 ◼   ► feelings on Captain Beefheart i really [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► like Captain Beefheart and I think the [TS]

00:54:30 ◼   ► guys to be generous and he don't know [TS]

00:54:33 ◼   ► he's certainly probably self-conscious [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► in his way he was definitely insane he [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► wouldn't wear headphones in the studio [TS]

00:54:37 ◼   ► but to me that's something really really [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► knew like what when that came out i mean [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► the new york dolls were like rolling [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► stones and dresses i should do this for [TS]

00:54:46 ◼   ► a living I'm pretty good shows you are [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► good at it but I mean again you you go [TS]

00:54:49 ◼   ► back to something like screamin Jay [TS]

00:54:52 ◼   ► Hawkins I don't know one thing him in [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► particular but but like the kind of [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► people who would really produce Charlie [TS]

00:54:57 ◼   ► Parker or you know somebody who went out [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► there and really I mean Charlie Parker [TS]

00:55:03 ◼   ► was playing and and dizzy gillespie were [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► playing in you know the contemporary [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► like big bands the time during the day [TS]

00:55:09 ◼   ► and like reinventing what we thought [TS]

00:55:13 ◼   ► about music certainly with projectors [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► but like their response was not to go [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► screw you're just gonna play this just [TS]

00:55:18 ◼   ► play this faster like the kind of [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► rebooted the whole idea of jazz and a [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► lot of guys they made something new that [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► in its way we came to realize was [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► beautiful it was at the time callaway [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► called a Chinese music nor ping pong but [TS]

00:55:32 ◼   ► but like we came to realize that you [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► know that was something substantially [TS]

00:55:36 ◼   ► new and we need to we need to be able to [TS]

00:55:39 ◼   ► separate all of the amazing artwork that [TS]

00:55:42 ◼   ► got made under the rubric of punk rock [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► from the from what is the the kind of [TS]

00:55:49 ◼   ► virus [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► I'm not bored I'm bored I'm I I get what [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► you're saying yes because it was your [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► favorite punk rock then the sex pistols [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► really yeah because that's that really [TS]

00:56:00 ◼   ► is that that has antecedence in in like [TS]

00:56:06 ◼   ► the kind of rock and roll that you [TS]

00:56:08 ◼   ► really love in some ways the sex pistols [TS]

00:56:10 ◼   ► are not really that different from ac/dc [TS]

00:56:12 ◼   ► and a lot of ways the sex pistols and [TS]

00:56:13 ◼   ► the romantics if you put blindfolds on [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► like people from outer space if you if [TS]

00:56:19 ◼   ► you blindfolded my pillows and played [TS]

00:56:22 ◼   ► them the sex pistols in the romantics [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► right people i think the pillows would [TS]

00:56:25 ◼   ► say I don't know the guy from the [TS]

00:56:27 ◼   ► romantics is kinda got a pretty cool [TS]

00:56:29 ◼   ► little Lisp the Sex Pistols guys a [TS]

00:56:32 ◼   ► little bit creamier but they're both [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► they're both amazing i mean let's say [TS]

00:56:35 ◼   ► let's say my favorite cool punk band [TS]

00:56:37 ◼   ► because that because most people can't [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► go [TS]

00:56:40 ◼   ► their heads around the fact that the sex [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► pistols are even are even a punk band [TS]

00:56:46 ◼   ► anymore but I'm my favorite cool punk [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► band is the bad brands and the Bad [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► Brains in spite of the fact that their [TS]

00:56:54 ◼   ► records don't sound good [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► I got a pretty bad i think we got a [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► really bad attitude that their records [TS]

00:57:00 ◼   ► already hard to work the records don't [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► really sound good like they're you put [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► them on and you're like oh god I wish I [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► could rerecord this even using the [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► technology that the head of it wasn't [TS]

00:57:11 ◼   ► that smart that's me and his crew to you [TS]

00:57:12 ◼   ► I don't know how they let that spot guy [TS]

00:57:14 ◼   ► anywhere near a favor and that is [TS]

00:57:15 ◼   ► absolutely true blue skidoo' and I mean [TS]

00:57:17 ◼   ► it's true a lot of those r.i.p listen to [TS]

00:57:19 ◼   ► it now anyway not to go back if we could [TS]

00:57:21 ◼   ► go back in time and rerecord those [TS]

00:57:23 ◼   ► records the world would be a better [TS]

00:57:24 ◼   ► place and that is one thing about that [TS]

00:57:25 ◼   ► Sex Pistols record that it sounds it is [TS]

00:57:29 ◼   ► solid gold sounding it sounds like a [TS]

00:57:31 ◼   ► freaking abba record it's recorded so [TS]

00:57:33 ◼   ► well and you you put that side to side [TS]

00:57:35 ◼   ► with the Bad Brains record which was you [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► know one of those was made by ric ocasek [TS]

00:57:39 ◼   ► that's i'm selling their in a men's room [TS]

00:57:41 ◼   ► yeah it sounds like it was recorded [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► through one headphone speaker but those [TS]

00:57:47 ◼   ► guys are putting together so much music [TS]

00:57:52 ◼   ► out of out of like a grab bag of nuts [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► and bowls and the and the overlay of [TS]

00:57:59 ◼   ► like I mean what i don't like about the [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► clashes that they are a white reggae [TS]

00:58:03 ◼   ► band what I love about the Bad Brains is [TS]

00:58:06 ◼   ► that they are fucking reggae band [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► there's they are doing shit that nobody [TS]

00:58:11 ◼   ► did that nobody has done before sense [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► and it's not like any aspect of it was [TS]

00:58:15 ◼   ► new but they put it together in a way [TS]

00:58:18 ◼   ► that it still inspires me right and you [TS]

00:58:22 ◼   ► know and I was not able I was never a [TS]

00:58:24 ◼   ► Fugazi person i did not make that [TS]

00:58:26 ◼   ► transition me neither [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► I mean I i like that i like i like Minor [TS]

00:58:30 ◼   ► Threat a lot and there are a couple [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► Fugazi songs are familiar with that I i [TS]

00:58:34 ◼   ► thought- that was really really good and [TS]

00:58:36 ◼   ► I've seen I never saw them live but I've [TS]

00:58:37 ◼   ► seen some of their videos of their live [TS]

00:58:40 ◼   ► stuff and man they were some working men [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► on CH and everything is I love those [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► early Black Flag records love them early [TS]

00:58:48 ◼   ► early early early Black Flag record [TS]

00:58:50 ◼   ► everything before they weren't allowed [TS]

00:58:52 ◼   ► to record anything [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► you're talking about this continue [TS]

00:58:55 ◼   ► talking like old-school 33 Rollins yeah [TS]

00:58:57 ◼   ► and I used to go see all I mean I I had [TS]

00:59:00 ◼   ► a I had a wonderful time in the [TS]

00:59:03 ◼   ► punk-rock years suicidal tendencies [TS]

00:59:06 ◼   ► loved it but by the time it turned into [TS]

00:59:09 ◼   ► bad religion by the time you know by the [TS]

00:59:12 ◼   ► time Circle Jerks turned into bad [TS]

00:59:14 ◼   ► religion i didn't think that was my [TS]

00:59:16 ◼   ► first punk rock show was when circle [TS]

00:59:18 ◼   ► jerk that turned into bed religion I [TS]

00:59:20 ◼   ► think that literally 1986 my first do is [TS]

00:59:23 ◼   ► I went to circle jerk show i was totally [TS]

00:59:25 ◼   ► terrified by the skanking and it was all [TS]

00:59:28 ◼   ► like clothes cigarettes and you know and [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► things people seen in magazines up mr. [TS]

00:59:35 ◼   ► know it really is true you can you can [TS]

00:59:36 ◼   ► seem like your guys like you talk about [TS]

00:59:38 ◼   ► this guy's you walk around the sink [TS]

00:59:40 ◼   ► stoppers acting like the real tough and [TS]

00:59:42 ◼   ► they're in their dirty clothes but you [TS]

00:59:44 ◼   ► know that's that's still a reaction to [TS]

00:59:47 ◼   ► what you've seen other people do and in [TS]

00:59:49 ◼   ► three years they will address in two [TS]

00:59:50 ◼   ► years they won't dress like that anymore [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► because they they are following a [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► certain snaps on punk rock they are [TS]

00:59:56 ◼   ► following a certain kind of fashion from [TS]

00:59:59 ◼   ► [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► any 32 1987 if I came out of a concert [TS]

01:00:05 ◼   ► and I was not covered in blood [TS]

01:00:08 ◼   ► I I felt like it was a shit was the shit [TS]

01:00:13 ◼   ► one ng because no I mean it was it [TS]

01:00:16 ◼   ► wasn't all my blood I mean it was it was [TS]

01:00:18 ◼   ► you that he took the bitches act it [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► wasn't that we were all taking each [TS]

01:00:21 ◼   ► other out i mean i was just interesting [TS]

01:00:23 ◼   ► but it was in a spirit of you know you [TS]

01:00:26 ◼   ► have each other up and stuff yeah get in [TS]

01:00:28 ◼   ► the middle and and and you did that [TS]

01:00:30 ◼   ► would you do that shit out of you [TS]

01:00:31 ◼   ► haha oh my god was so scared that I was [TS]

01:00:34 ◼   ► up over by the bar [TS]

01:00:35 ◼   ► oh my god I wanted and I thrived on it [TS]

01:00:38 ◼   ► beat you know hit me hard hit me hard [TS]

01:00:40 ◼   ► were allowed it was encouraged and and [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► then if somebody fell you didn't pick [TS]

01:00:44 ◼   ► them up and I mean one of the most [TS]

01:00:45 ◼   ► traumatic experiences I ever had was at [TS]

01:00:47 ◼   ► an all show a guy jumped up this you [TS]

01:00:50 ◼   ► know staged over and it she just went [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► into a hole my god said and he was he [TS]

01:00:56 ◼   ► was out cold and you know the band [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► stopped we all stopped we help this we [TS]

01:01:01 ◼   ► got this guy into an ambulance and the [TS]

01:01:04 ◼   ► show started up again like that so punk [TS]

01:01:06 ◼   ► rock it was great but but but really [TS]

01:01:10 ◼   ► that transition Circle Jerks into bad [TS]

01:01:13 ◼   ► religion I stopped believing that there [TS]

01:01:16 ◼   ► was a thing called punk rock anymore i [TS]

01:01:17 ◼   ► just--can i mean i didn't i looked [TS]

01:01:19 ◼   ► around and i was like what this is I [TS]

01:01:21 ◼   ► don't even know what this is and really [TS]

01:01:23 ◼   ► that was the last moment that it had any [TS]

01:01:25 ◼   ► relevance because then it was all then [TS]

01:01:27 ◼   ► the next generation was all punk rock [TS]

01:01:28 ◼   ► through through punk rock through punk [TS]

01:01:31 ◼   ► rock it was it was it was for I mean [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► because of course being 21 is like being [TS]

01:01:37 ◼   ► 87 in punk rock years by the time it by [TS]

01:01:41 ◼   ► the time we got to 1990 was like really [TS]

01:01:44 ◼   ► we're taking our music from these guys [TS]

01:01:45 ◼   ► from aberdeen washington now is that how [TS]

01:01:48 ◼   ► far out we have to buy better names like [TS]

01:01:50 ◼   ► the raincoats to find some monkeys that [TS]

01:01:53 ◼   ► still have a little bit of life in them [TS]

01:01:56 ◼   ► ok these were pulling these ding-dongs [TS]

01:01:58 ◼   ► out of trees now and they're making and [TS]

01:02:03 ◼   ► grudges well that's what we're gonna [TS]

01:02:04 ◼   ► that's what we're going to call it [TS]

01:02:05 ◼   ► grunge like we talked about notnot [TS]

01:02:07 ◼   ► enduring oh yeah i've fallen so far this [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► is not even this is just not this [TS]

01:02:13 ◼   ► something else and you know i got into [TS]

01:02:15 ◼   ► music because i was watching the grunge [TS]

01:02:18 ◼   ► bands i came to Seattle and wanted to be [TS]

01:02:20 ◼   ► in a band you know when I was playing I [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► was playing jingle jangle REM tom petty [TS]

01:02:26 ◼   ► Rock because to me it's stuff that was [TS]

01:02:30 ◼   ► where it seemed like we were headed like [TS]

01:02:32 ◼   ► that was where the good music was coming [TS]

01:02:34 ◼   ► from and I show up in this town and [TS]

01:02:37 ◼   ► they're all these swamp monsters they [TS]

01:02:42 ◼   ► order a Jagermeister and get a record [TS]

01:02:44 ◼   ► touch it and they're playing you know [TS]

01:02:47 ◼   ► really what sounded to me at the time [TS]

01:02:49 ◼   ► like retro music what about meeting I [TS]

01:02:53 ◼   ► started with a meaningless genre like [TS]

01:02:55 ◼   ► how can you put Mudhoney and the melvins [TS]

01:02:58 ◼   ► and Nirvana and Pearl Jam in the same [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► genre it just doesn't make a lick of [TS]

01:03:02 ◼   ► sense [TS]

01:03:03 ◼   ► well it's just the same as punk rock if [TS]

01:03:04 ◼   ► it's good it's rock and roll if it's bad [TS]

01:03:08 ◼   ► it's grunge and the and Camille and I [TS]

01:03:10 ◼   ► didn't did we [TS]

01:03:11 ◼   ► djed the sub pop 20-year anniversary [TS]

01:03:13 ◼   ► party [TS]

01:03:15 ◼   ► Wow several years ago and we have a [TS]

01:03:18 ◼   ► collation out he's now the head of late [TS]

01:03:19 ◼   ► he's at a level that's right a British [TS]

01:03:22 ◼   ► label head but he and I were at this [TS]

01:03:23 ◼   ► this bar Linda's and we had two [TS]

01:03:26 ◼   ► turntables and we went to all of our [TS]

01:03:27 ◼   ► friends and of course the bill owned a [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► record store right he had some resources [TS]

01:03:31 ◼   ► and I had some stuff and we collected [TS]

01:03:34 ◼   ► all the like iconic grunge vinyl that we [TS]

01:03:39 ◼   ► could find and then Anna and I don't [TS]

01:03:41 ◼   ► mean like really any of the major label [TS]

01:03:42 ◼   ► stuff but this was this was all the [TS]

01:03:45 ◼   ► bands that were really making the scene [TS]

01:03:48 ◼   ► 89 threw 93 and we sat at linda's which [TS]

01:03:53 ◼   ► did not at the time of a very good [TS]

01:03:55 ◼   ► stereo system which was appropriate [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► automatically aesthetically appropriate [TS]

01:03:59 ◼   ► and we played this vinyl and we would [TS]

01:04:02 ◼   ► you know one of us would pull a record [TS]

01:04:04 ◼   ► out and the other one would go oh my god [TS]

01:04:06 ◼   ► yes cat but yes they're awesome [TS]

01:04:10 ◼   ► I never heard a cap but did you make [TS]

01:04:12 ◼   ► that up oh that was real health proud [TS]

01:04:14 ◼   ► dude hell trout get that shit on there [TS]

01:04:17 ◼   ► and we would queue up this record and [TS]

01:04:19 ◼   ► we'd be like this is going to blow [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► people's minds that we have because the [TS]

01:04:23 ◼   ► room was full of people that were there [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► and they're waiting for green river yeah [TS]

01:04:27 ◼   ► and feel like is sitting right in front [TS]

01:04:29 ◼   ► of us you know he and fabric feel like [TS]

01:04:31 ◼   ► even came with some records like we're [TS]

01:04:33 ◼   ► everybody was so excited and then uq [TS]

01:04:35 ◼   ► this shit up and here comes through the [TS]

01:04:37 ◼   ► speakers and within and everybody goes [TS]

01:04:40 ◼   ► yeah and then within a minute we're all [TS]

01:04:44 ◼   ► looking at our fingernails because it's [TS]

01:04:46 ◼   ► sucks like so that like it's terrible [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► it's bad they recorded its badly played [TS]

01:04:52 ◼   ► it's badly written most of that music [TS]

01:04:55 ◼   ► was just bad and that's true of every [TS]

01:04:59 ◼   ► music scene anywhere but but the the [TS]

01:05:02 ◼   ► good pans the good grunge bands you have [TS]

01:05:05 ◼   ► heard of there's no there was no secret [TS]

01:05:08 ◼   ► stash of like oh yeah you've never heard [TS]

01:05:11 ◼   ► of these guys but they're gonna they're [TS]

01:05:13 ◼   ► gonna kill you you know i mean there are [TS]

01:05:14 ◼   ► a couple there were a couple but but for [TS]

01:05:17 ◼   ► the most part that stuff was just it was [TS]

01:05:21 ◼   ► like it was like a pair of converse that [TS]

01:05:24 ◼   ► were full of vomit [TS]

01:05:27 ◼   ► ok did you ever read have you read any [TS]

01:05:31 ◼   ► contemporary reviews of early Black [TS]

01:05:34 ◼   ► Sabbath records there they are a riot [TS]

01:05:37 ◼   ► for for so long I mean you know i'm not [TS]

01:05:41 ◼   ► saying everything except it was was [TS]

01:05:43 ◼   ► fantastic but i'm going to say that I'm [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► gonna go right ahead and say it [TS]

01:05:47 ◼   ► well at least the first six years first [TS]

01:05:49 ◼   ► just six years yeah there's that 179 275 [TS]

01:05:52 ◼   ► as well yeah there's that was that last [TS]

01:05:54 ◼   ► Ozzy record that sounds like Sloan but [TS]

01:05:56 ◼   ► um but you know how they're always quite [TS]

01:05:58 ◼   ► a statement [TS]

01:05:59 ◼   ► oh yeah it will this is this one song [TS]

01:06:01 ◼   ► that basically takes a was set and as a [TS]

01:06:05 ◼   ► you know the one I mean it's like AG [TS]

01:06:06 ◼   ► ACDC longer you know the one I mean it's [TS]

01:06:08 ◼   ► oh not the gas masks that one on the [TS]

01:06:12 ◼   ► cover but it was last night he record is [TS]

01:06:13 ◼   ► pretty he was pretty gone at that point [TS]

01:06:16 ◼   ► but but it's funny cuz neck like today [TS]

01:06:19 ◼   ► especially like I happen to really like [TS]

01:06:22 ◼   ► the melvins and I think they're grazing [TS]

01:06:24 ◼   ► their incredible ok alright cool I'm [TS]

01:06:27 ◼   ► cool but but I that you know I and [TS]

01:06:30 ◼   ► unlike you I'm given to believe i did [TS]

01:06:32 ◼   ► not sit around and get super duper high [TS]

01:06:34 ◼   ► list them i'm kinda regret that but like [TS]

01:06:37 ◼   ► that's a honey pot like I guess this one [TS]

01:06:38 ◼   ► of their hits but I mean like that song [TS]

01:06:40 ◼   ► is a triumph [TS]

01:06:41 ◼   ► it's so great but like you would never [TS]

01:06:43 ◼   ► have had a Melvin this message is [TS]

01:06:45 ◼   ► definitely I think one of those bands is [TS]

01:06:47 ◼   ► what you're describing which is like [TS]

01:06:48 ◼   ► it's cool to like The Melvins but they [TS]

01:06:50 ◼   ► were really good and then I don't think [TS]

01:06:53 ◼   ► they're ever would have been in Melvin's [TS]

01:06:54 ◼   ► without a black sabbath not at all no [TS]

01:06:56 ◼   ► chance I mean that may sound like [TS]

01:06:58 ◼   ► patently obvious but it's fine if you go [TS]

01:07:00 ◼   ► back to the time man [TS]

01:07:02 ◼   ► no body especially like a sling [TS]

01:07:04 ◼   ► criticisms but nobody like Black Sabbath [TS]

01:07:07 ◼   ► they were like this is ridiculous [TS]

01:07:09 ◼   ► it's the same way I make the joke about [TS]

01:07:10 ◼   ► Mike Anthony which is you know a joke [TS]

01:07:12 ◼   ► but like they're like this is this is [TS]

01:07:14 ◼   ► there playing is asinine [TS]

01:07:16 ◼   ► especially the bass and drum parts you [TS]

01:07:19 ◼   ► know because the bass and drum parts to [TS]