Roderick on the Line

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00:00:24 ◼   ► [Music]

00:00:29 ◼   ► hello hi John hi Merlin how's it going

00:00:34 ◼   ► haha i'm going hungry

00:00:38 ◼   ► yeah jerbear worship air terminal and

00:00:44 ◼   ► feed bear woman a bit the knee and

00:00:48 ◼   ► shareholders prayer I gotta grab your

00:00:53 ◼   ► son passed the truck on the way in here

00:00:57 ◼   ► that had a Soundgarden louder than love

00:00:59 ◼   ► bumper sticker and it wasn't it was a

00:01:01 ◼   ► new bumper sticker on an old truck and

00:01:05 ◼   ► it really really put me into a put me

00:01:09 ◼   ► into a spin little when they get you

00:01:11 ◼   ► thinking about

00:01:12 ◼   ► well where you get a new soundgarden

00:01:14 ◼   ► louder than love bumper sticker but you

00:01:16 ◼   ► get that that store at the airport

00:01:18 ◼   ► oh yeah well maybe yeah what doesn't add

00:01:22 ◼   ► some pop uh they were on Sub Pop in the

00:01:25 ◼   ► early days

00:01:26 ◼   ► whoo-hoo yeah maybe maybe that's where

00:01:29 ◼   ► they got it at the side of the airport

00:01:32 ◼   ► ah he said you passed the truck was a

00:01:36 ◼   ► little worried for you for a minute

00:01:38 ◼   ► yeah I know right today we're having a

00:01:40 ◼   ► lot of the way I've been treating early

00:01:44 ◼   ► trucks now you sound sick

00:01:46 ◼   ► oh my god John did you have a bad you

00:01:49 ◼   ► could hang on hang on to your bird flu

00:01:52 ◼   ► um-hm I'm gonna try so hard to ride the

00:01:57 ◼   ► cock button em know you have a cough

00:02:00 ◼   ► button i have a keyboard based hacky

00:02:04 ◼   ► cough button i'm told that I could get a

00:02:06 ◼   ► hardware cough button but you know i

00:02:09 ◼   ► don't know if i'm going to be sticking

00:02:10 ◼   ► with the podcast and stuff all that long

00:02:11 ◼   ► so crazy I know I know don't don't make

00:02:14 ◼   ► like any kind of big investment

00:02:16 ◼   ► what how do you do this keyboard hack

00:02:19 ◼   ► well there are a variety of these are

00:02:22 ◼   ► you really interested in this but are

00:02:23 ◼   ► you kidding this is what our podcast is

00:02:25 ◼   ► all about and all the points we have not

00:02:27 ◼   ► talked on our podcast and so on it's

00:02:30 ◼   ► been so long we've done a lot with a lot

00:02:32 ◼   ► to talk about

00:02:33 ◼   ► let's start with a mute buttons actually

00:02:35 ◼   ► called it's called mute my mic and no

00:02:38 ◼   ► way this is a nap

00:02:39 ◼   ► snap he had a button and add mutant want

00:02:45 ◼   ► some backup app always got in at Mike

00:02:48 ◼   ► purchases and mute

00:02:50 ◼   ► yeah right now you can you level up can

00:02:52 ◼   ► you get it so it doesn't have ads

00:02:54 ◼   ► mhm what's that supported and then

00:02:56 ◼   ► occasionally it pops up a pink noise

00:02:59 ◼   ► uh-huh unless you pay oh that's just one

00:03:01 ◼   ► more fucking real

00:03:03 ◼   ► yeah yeah well you know I my computer is

00:03:05 ◼   ► is an IBM 8086 ok let me double check

00:03:11 ◼   ► check the availability of that

00:03:13 ◼   ► oh yeah this is gonna be tricky I'm

00:03:17 ◼   ► running machine language is it beige on

00:03:20 ◼   ► it is baby I second it is Jane be he

00:03:26 ◼   ► fucked up and I yeah if there's a

00:03:32 ◼   ► shareware version of good

00:03:34 ◼   ► oh yes one-on-one Linus yeah you need to

00:03:37 ◼   ► get the the new the Linus world cd-rom

00:03:40 ◼   ► you can get that over to barnes and

00:03:42 ◼   ► noble and that you going to do a match /

00:03:45 ◼   ► dot DX e dot no space spelled out spread

00:03:53 ◼   ► somebody out here to burn my CD the

00:03:55 ◼   ► other day our friend Adam pepper Annika

00:03:57 ◼   ► said can you just burn me a CD and I was

00:03:59 ◼   ► like what can I and then I was like I

00:04:02 ◼   ► could

00:04:03 ◼   ► yeah but where do you get a CD anymore

00:04:05 ◼   ► and then you then it was like oh wait i

00:04:07 ◼   ► have a USB Drive on my keychain

00:04:09 ◼   ► yeah I was like you know what that crazy

00:04:11 ◼   ► fuck yeah I know I know yet you know

00:04:14 ◼   ► it's funny this amazing really have a

00:04:15 ◼   ► pretty old la by any standard except

00:04:18 ◼   ► perhaps yours i have a very very old

00:04:20 ◼   ► desktop computers from 2006 and and

00:04:25 ◼   ► really true are you really running a

00:04:27 ◼   ► 2006 I'm so hard when I hate buying

00:04:30 ◼   ► computers but but how does it have I

00:04:32 ◼   ► mean Apple by design makes their

00:04:35 ◼   ► upgrades kill old computer yes

00:04:39 ◼   ► mm that's running some very old

00:04:40 ◼   ► hacked-up software that I'm not proud of

00:04:42 ◼   ► it but you've hacked a little got a hack

00:04:45 ◼   ► but in a you know what's funny is when I

00:04:47 ◼   ► bought this is even as recently took a

00:04:49 ◼   ► year before my daughter was born about

00:04:51 ◼   ► this computer in that age I had the

00:04:53 ◼   ► presence of mind to buy i bought a mac

00:04:58 ◼   ► pro with two DVD read-only drives

00:05:03 ◼   ► excuse me to CD CD because you have

00:05:07 ◼   ► these dvds to but it does it right i

00:05:09 ◼   ► have two optical drives for reading

00:05:11 ◼   ► discs because I don't know what I guess

00:05:12 ◼   ► at some point I was thinking I might

00:05:13 ◼   ► want to watch two movies at once haha

00:05:16 ◼   ► it's so bizarre i don't know it's

00:05:19 ◼   ► already feels like a million years away

00:05:21 ◼   ► i've got a blu-ray burner and Ripper

00:05:24 ◼   ► thing that's kind of janky but that

00:05:26 ◼   ► works but I can't believe how rarely

00:05:27 ◼   ► it's almost like a fax machine now how

00:05:29 ◼   ► rarely i have to make you know DVD or CD

00:05:33 ◼   ► dubs Yeah Yeah right why why would you

00:05:39 ◼   ► because it's it was a mean it's funny

00:05:41 ◼   ► because it used to be such I mean I can

00:05:43 ◼   ► remember when you could first make cds

00:05:45 ◼   ► on a Mac it seemed amazing because CD

00:05:50 ◼   ► was the coin of the realm

00:05:52 ◼   ► I mean that's how if you could make

00:05:54 ◼   ► something that played like a CD that you

00:05:55 ◼   ► dropped into a CD players like the most

00:05:57 ◼   ► amazing thing in the world better but

00:05:58 ◼   ► about to

00:05:59 ◼   ► well absolutely of course you know

00:06:01 ◼   ► you've given me stuff in the past on CDs

00:06:03 ◼   ► that you know this unreleased and things

00:06:04 ◼   ► like that but it's funny how now that

00:06:07 ◼   ► feels like such an unnecessary middle

00:06:09 ◼   ► step because what you gonna do as soon

00:06:11 ◼   ► as you get the CD or into your dripping

00:06:13 ◼   ► now you're gonna rip it and try to get

00:06:15 ◼   ► it back it just seems it seems so

00:06:17 ◼   ► bizarre

00:06:18 ◼   ► it's like you know like I say it's like

00:06:19 ◼   ► anybody wants you to fax some forms it

00:06:21 ◼   ► feels so bizarre to me you're talking

00:06:23 ◼   ► about my entire life now because every

00:06:26 ◼   ► week somebody wants me to effects on the

00:06:27 ◼   ► fucking form i know i am I remember the

00:06:30 ◼   ► first mac i saw the the ones that look

00:06:32 ◼   ► like cough drops

00:06:34 ◼   ► oh yeah imac the imac the front windows

00:06:36 ◼   ► first came out the first 1i saw did not

00:06:38 ◼   ► have a seed be player have it all right

00:06:44 ◼   ► oh no we didn't have to see didn't have

00:06:45 ◼   ► a fighter I've had a CD reader but he

00:06:48 ◼   ► couldn't write to it and it didn't have

00:06:50 ◼   ► a

00:06:50 ◼   ► uh-oh one of those little mini disc

00:06:52 ◼   ► fucking christ and I was like well how

00:06:55 ◼   ► do you write stuff to it

00:06:58 ◼   ► how do you how do you how do you like

00:06:59 ◼   ► and they the owner of this particular

00:07:01 ◼   ► machine said well they don't there isn't

00:07:03 ◼   ► a method to do that I bet they very

00:07:06 ◼   ► patiently roll their eyes to explain to

00:07:08 ◼   ► poor John what it's like to be alive in

00:07:10 ◼   ► the 20th century and I i was astonished

00:07:15 ◼   ► that you would spend that much money to

00:07:17 ◼   ► buy a thing that you could not you

00:07:20 ◼   ► couldn't export from you are not alone

00:07:23 ◼   ► that was a very controversial choice and

00:07:25 ◼   ► over the years has been a number of

00:07:27 ◼   ► things that Apple has done now that

00:07:29 ◼   ► we're doing a technology pockets because

00:07:30 ◼   ► number things apples as done that have

00:07:33 ◼   ► been very controversial because if you

00:07:37 ◼   ► know for most of us growing up that was

00:07:39 ◼   ► that was one of the primary opiate

00:07:41 ◼   ► getting a car without a steering wheel

00:07:42 ◼   ► for a car without a without a what

00:07:47 ◼   ► windshield

00:07:49 ◼   ► I mean trunk cup holder but just the

00:07:51 ◼   ► ability I mean the whole point was we

00:07:53 ◼   ► always did everything with disks and

00:07:54 ◼   ► that seemed crazy and now today it's

00:07:56 ◼   ► getting even crazier because with the

00:07:59 ◼   ► laptops they make the one of the

00:08:02 ◼   ► constraining factors to how thin the

00:08:04 ◼   ► laptop can be is consistently those

00:08:06 ◼   ► ports on the side all ports right you

00:08:08 ◼   ► don't want ports because everything's

00:08:09 ◼   ► included in the cloud but like you know

00:08:12 ◼   ► but I mean like when they started the

00:08:13 ◼   ► first time like now you do not get a

00:08:15 ◼   ► optical drive the on a laptop and also

00:08:20 ◼   ► it's a huge source of power consumption

00:08:23 ◼   ► alright huh and then for example like an

00:08:26 ◼   ► ethernet cable like a now youyou the

00:08:29 ◼   ► they're too thin to have an ethernet

00:08:31 ◼   ► port right so you have to have USB but

00:08:34 ◼   ► even USB is kind of you know is is

00:08:37 ◼   ► pretty thick right there

00:08:40 ◼   ► I mean is I'm too thin for an ethernet

00:08:42 ◼   ► cable give me look at you you look

00:08:43 ◼   ► fantastic how we should get Gruber and

00:08:46 ◼   ► siracusa to come on this podcast and we

00:08:48 ◼   ► could talk about Apple don't give it

00:08:50 ◼   ► away

00:08:51 ◼   ► got plans I'm not saying anything

00:08:55 ◼   ► yeah we should because you know boy

00:08:57 ◼   ► there's just not enough what about the

00:08:58 ◼   ► Apple watch John are you excited about

00:09:00 ◼   ► the Apple watch in

00:09:01 ◼   ► I really am I saw a guy the other day uh

00:09:04 ◼   ► where was I oh I was at the grocery

00:09:06 ◼   ► store and the guy that was checking me

00:09:08 ◼   ► out was wearing a giant gold crown on a

00:09:11 ◼   ► chain and some behind like a regal crown

00:09:16 ◼   ► well it wasn't like it wasn't like a

00:09:17 ◼   ► three-dimensional crown it was a

00:09:18 ◼   ► two-dimensional crown and there was a

00:09:20 ◼   ► part of me that wanted to ask if it was

00:09:22 ◼   ► about Ethiopia and the part of me that

00:09:24 ◼   ► wanted to ask it was about reggae and

00:09:27 ◼   ► then a paddle and then the George part

00:09:29 ◼   ► of me that just realized that I was not

00:09:32 ◼   ► meant to ask what the crown wasn't

00:09:34 ◼   ► really well i will give you wear a crown

00:09:36 ◼   ► on a change or you're really asking

00:09:37 ◼   ► people your kind of throwing it out

00:09:39 ◼   ► there that you want people to talk about

00:09:40 ◼   ► it

00:09:41 ◼   ► the guy at the grocery store was sending

00:09:43 ◼   ► a very palpable do not engage me in

00:09:46 ◼   ► conversation vibe

00:09:48 ◼   ► yeah so I was like this is you know it's

00:09:51 ◼   ► unusual in the in the 21st century to

00:09:54 ◼   ► have a customer service experience where

00:09:56 ◼   ► the person on the other end is sending

00:09:59 ◼   ► out a very capable but not engage about

00:10:04 ◼   ► vibe all-too-rare if you ask me tender

00:10:07 ◼   ► and so I was like I respect your

00:10:09 ◼   ► capability and i'm going to just we're

00:10:12 ◼   ► just going to share this time together

00:10:13 ◼   ► as two men who are not making chitchat

00:10:15 ◼   ► even though you are wearing a giant gold

00:10:18 ◼   ► crown on a giant cold chain but then on

00:10:22 ◼   ► closer inspection so I'm looking at the

00:10:24 ◼   ► crowd and I'm like oh boy I really want

00:10:25 ◼   ► to talk about this crime but he really

00:10:27 ◼   ► doesn't want me to talk he might want to

00:10:29 ◼   ► talk about it but he doesn't want to

00:10:30 ◼   ► talk about it with me and so then i'm

00:10:34 ◼   ► looking at i'm i'm scanning him like

00:10:36 ◼   ► well let's see is there any other a way

00:10:38 ◼   ► i can get engaged this person

00:10:40 ◼   ► conversation and then he's wearing some

00:10:42 ◼   ► giant technology watch I was like oh

00:10:45 ◼   ► fuck

00:10:46 ◼   ► now i really want to talk to him about

00:10:48 ◼   ► the watch and maybe that's the inroad

00:10:52 ◼   ► into then afterward chatting about the

00:10:54 ◼   ► watch then be like so the crown who but

00:10:57 ◼   ► at that and at that point I kind of

00:10:59 ◼   ► looked up hopefully at him like not

00:11:01 ◼   ► something that isn't the ground to talk

00:11:03 ◼   ► about its the watch and he continued to

00:11:08 ◼   ► be very capable and very uninterested

00:11:13 ◼   ► communicating and so I was like all

00:11:14 ◼   ► right I'm gonna let the watch and the

00:11:16 ◼   ► crown just be is private business

00:11:20 ◼   ► I'm gonna be over here in my private

00:11:22 ◼   ► business I should be thinking about

00:11:24 ◼   ► something else anyway what am I trying

00:11:25 ◼   ► to talk to this guy for I should be

00:11:27 ◼   ► thinking about big deep thoughts

00:11:28 ◼   ► yeah and so I just left the left the

00:11:31 ◼   ► whole thing in my past I wouldn't even

00:11:34 ◼   ► thought about it again haven't brought

00:11:35 ◼   ► up the apple watch em and the band this

00:11:39 ◼   ► guy's watch i don't i don't think it was

00:11:41 ◼   ► an Apple watch but it was Ben what's

00:11:43 ◼   ► called a pebble watch em pebble is a

00:11:46 ◼   ► company that makes it

00:11:47 ◼   ► I'm ungainly large silly watch i have

00:11:50 ◼   ► noticed about nokia that whatever apple

00:11:53 ◼   ► announces something nokia comes out with

00:11:55 ◼   ► the slightly bigger maybe more capable

00:11:59 ◼   ► and yet still less desirable version of

00:12:03 ◼   ► it right away

00:12:03 ◼   ► that's a core competency exam sounds

00:12:06 ◼   ► pretty good at that too samsung right so

00:12:07 ◼   ► it could have been one of those but it

00:12:09 ◼   ► was like you know it was a watch where

00:12:10 ◼   ► where it by its blankness but it's by

00:12:15 ◼   ► like the empty screen it suggested an

00:12:20 ◼   ► infinite capability right here's the

00:12:23 ◼   ► watch

00:12:24 ◼   ► it's infinitely capable perhaps he could

00:12:26 ◼   ► be a good video conference with his you

00:12:29 ◼   ► know with his handler he Kurds he could

00:12:34 ◼   ► like a great real-time feedback on how

00:12:37 ◼   ► well he's doing his grocery tasks

00:12:39 ◼   ► mhm yeah I could that's right I could I

00:12:41 ◼   ► could I could use the app bump you can't

00:12:44 ◼   ► focus i wanna lose or possibly beans i

00:12:47 ◼   ► could uh let's see i bet i bet he could

00:12:50 ◼   ► hack into a mainframe if his if his team

00:12:54 ◼   ► you know encounter a firewall that

00:12:57 ◼   ► someone could like rewrite the

00:12:59 ◼   ► encryption right now we gotta rewrite

00:13:01 ◼   ► the encryption rewrite the encryption

00:13:02 ◼   ► and hacking the mainframe right there

00:13:04 ◼   ► from his watch

00:13:05 ◼   ► I just I felt like wow its infinite

00:13:08 ◼   ► possibilities and I'm sure if he touched

00:13:09 ◼   ► it and showed me what it did it like he

00:13:12 ◼   ► could scroll through his I photo

00:13:15 ◼   ► and he can take it can either be a clock

00:13:17 ◼   ► or can be message for you told someone

00:13:19 ◼   ► he's at work right are you i am bored

00:13:22 ◼   ► you can get those those bumps where it's

00:13:25 ◼   ► like today at two o'clock

00:13:28 ◼   ► you are scheduled to do a podcast oh my

00:13:30 ◼   ► god you remind me of something is it um

00:13:34 ◼   ► listen we're gonna put this out today

00:13:36 ◼   ► because we need to put on a show

00:13:37 ◼   ► so what we talked a little bit about

00:13:38 ◼   ► what's what's been happening what we've

00:13:40 ◼   ► been doing

00:13:40 ◼   ► third time's yeah let's talk about

00:13:41 ◼   ► exciting we're honored went on a cruise

00:13:43 ◼   ► we have we talked we only talked about

00:13:45 ◼   ► that have we ever talked about the

00:13:46 ◼   ► cruise

00:13:47 ◼   ► yeah well I want to get to that but one

00:13:49 ◼   ► thing was as is you know I'm in flying

00:13:52 ◼   ► out of Fort Lauderdale for Fort

00:13:55 ◼   ► Lauderdale first I learned very small

00:13:56 ◼   ► airport not enough to do their smaller

00:13:58 ◼   ► part there are live birds in New I'm not

00:14:01 ◼   ► not tame birds but wild bird so tomorrow

00:14:04 ◼   ► was there any seem nice did you meet Tom

00:14:07 ◼   ► Arnold the for my lady my lady saw him

00:14:09 ◼   ► at the place where you buy water and

00:14:10 ◼   ► candy and he said he was up being very

00:14:12 ◼   ► very nice with people it's nice to hear

00:14:13 ◼   ► what matters is a nice well so we long

00:14:16 ◼   ► story short where you know everybody's

00:14:18 ◼   ► on this cruise was that arrived that day

00:14:20 ◼   ► at the end of the cruise is gonna be

00:14:21 ◼   ► flying out of FLL which is as I think I

00:14:24 ◼   ► mentioned a very small airport lot of

00:14:27 ◼   ► things could have been playing better on

00:14:28 ◼   ► our part there was miscommunications

00:14:30 ◼   ► long story short we ended up getting

00:14:31 ◼   ► there at I think about ten in the

00:14:34 ◼   ► morning

00:14:35 ◼   ► now you can I raced off the boat and got

00:14:37 ◼   ► immediately to the airport and then we

00:14:39 ◼   ► flew out of eight o'clock that night so

00:14:41 ◼   ► we had we had a nice long day to really

00:14:43 ◼   ► take in the airport whoo-hoo and

00:14:46 ◼   ► Atlantis you know it was it was kind of

00:14:49 ◼   ► a trial but did you go to chilis to go

00:14:51 ◼   ► to chilis to twice I've treated my

00:14:54 ◼   ► family to chilis to twice each plate was

00:14:56 ◼   ► more disappointing than the last at-bat

00:14:59 ◼   ► Chili's too and i remember i remember i

00:15:01 ◼   ► ordered something and it came with like

00:15:02 ◼   ► a single kernel of corn on them at the

00:15:08 ◼   ► edge of the crack corn planter

00:15:09 ◼   ► look i don't care i think it was the

00:15:11 ◼   ► salsa maybe uh huh yeah well it's you

00:15:14 ◼   ► know they've got they've got about 850

00:15:16 ◼   ► drinks in a microwave oven and that's

00:15:18 ◼   ► the chilis to no place else is chilis

00:15:21 ◼   ► literally well anyway let the funny part

00:15:23 ◼   ► was stuck there and you know we're

00:15:25 ◼   ► trying to you know

00:15:26 ◼   ► like it was being considering everything

00:15:28 ◼   ► was being very patient considering but

00:15:30 ◼   ► you know we sit there and we found a

00:15:32 ◼   ► little kind of like quiet area where

00:15:33 ◼   ► there were too many people around but

00:15:35 ◼   ► one of the things I don't know why

00:15:37 ◼   ► mention this is you know people love to

00:15:39 ◼   ► talk on the phone at the airport and I I

00:15:43 ◼   ► just it's only in airports that I really

00:15:45 ◼   ► realize I feel like how much most other

00:15:49 ◼   ► people talk on their phone more than i

00:15:51 ◼   ► do and that will by which i mean they

00:15:53 ◼   ► make a lot more calls than i do but they

00:15:56 ◼   ► talk on the phone for a very very very

00:16:00 ◼   ► long time often very loudly much longer

00:16:04 ◼   ► than i do and it's amazing because I'll

00:16:05 ◼   ► do anything I can to try and get phone

00:16:08 ◼   ► calls with people talk to you talk to

00:16:09 ◼   ► clients but you know if you get off the

00:16:11 ◼   ► phone

00:16:12 ◼   ► that's what the goal of getting on the

00:16:13 ◼   ► phone is to get off the phone call it a

00:16:16 ◼   ► hundred percent

00:16:16 ◼   ► I mean I i totally agree but there's

00:16:18 ◼   ► this one conversation it was so uh it

00:16:23 ◼   ► was so boring haha and so long and

00:16:28 ◼   ► here's the conversation is a woman there

00:16:29 ◼   ► is going to fly outs of course like

00:16:30 ◼   ► everybody in an airport she has to

00:16:32 ◼   ► explain everything about what she's

00:16:34 ◼   ► doing and what she's going to be doing

00:16:35 ◼   ► she's explaining that she's sitting at

00:16:37 ◼   ► the airport calling you did was let you

00:16:40 ◼   ► know what she's doing she's at the

00:16:41 ◼   ► airport just gonna she's gonna fly out

00:16:43 ◼   ► later but for right now you know she's

00:16:45 ◼   ► going to call and check in

00:16:47 ◼   ► oh and it became apparent inform some

00:16:49 ◼   ► time that this woman was talking to her

00:16:51 ◼   ► young daughter a daughter maybe high

00:16:54 ◼   ► school age but around you know late high

00:16:56 ◼   ► school age and the entire conversation

00:16:59 ◼   ► you can tell it no matter what the girl

00:17:01 ◼   ► said the mother had some really annoying

00:17:05 ◼   ► karma suck response to everything that

00:17:08 ◼   ► her dog

00:17:08 ◼   ► oh yes like and I'm so first forms that

00:17:11 ◼   ► God please never let me be like this

00:17:13 ◼   ► well you know if you bring the grades up

00:17:15 ◼   ► and

00:17:16 ◼   ► and it goes on but then eventually once

00:17:20 ◼   ► they've gotten through all the things

00:17:21 ◼   ► that they knew they had to talk about

00:17:22 ◼   ► that the girl had done wrong

00:17:24 ◼   ► the mother started asking her these kind

00:17:25 ◼   ► of elliptical questions about how she's

00:17:27 ◼   ► been spending her time and it became

00:17:29 ◼   ► apparent that before the call the mother

00:17:31 ◼   ► had gone through every piece of social

00:17:33 ◼   ► media that the girl was involved with em

00:17:36 ◼   ► and was good was now basically examining

00:17:39 ◼   ► our right checking up based on what you

00:17:41 ◼   ► already knew

00:17:41 ◼   ► yeah and she would only let out enough

00:17:43 ◼   ► information about a certain thing and

00:17:45 ◼   ► then wait for the daughter to kind of

00:17:46 ◼   ► offer something up and it went on for an

00:17:48 ◼   ► hour

00:17:50 ◼   ► wow yeah so we're not let that look for

00:17:53 ◼   ► now that's parenting right there that's

00:17:55 ◼   ► like pow

00:17:56 ◼   ► oh my god it's you know that's it was

00:18:00 ◼   ► rough

00:18:02 ◼   ► I'm so sorry you're not it's alright you

00:18:04 ◼   ► know it's it's what he can do

00:18:05 ◼   ► it'sit's travel but you know at the end

00:18:07 ◼   ► of the trip especially your kind of like

00:18:08 ◼   ► okay I'm really ready to not be on a

00:18:11 ◼   ► trip anymore

00:18:12 ◼   ► yeah right get me home right and and

00:18:14 ◼   ► instead you are you're learning about

00:18:16 ◼   ► people you don't want to learn about oh

00:18:18 ◼   ► don't ask me about the united lounge

00:18:20 ◼   ► buddy whoa i heard you know I so full

00:18:24 ◼   ► disclosure I showed up at this Airport

00:18:26 ◼   ► this fort lauderdale airport several

00:18:29 ◼   ► hours later

00:18:31 ◼   ► yeah for a flight that was scheduled to

00:18:33 ◼   ► leave you know at what six a flight that

00:18:39 ◼   ► will end and when I left this and so I

00:18:41 ◼   ► show up the airport and Merlin is still

00:18:42 ◼   ► there with his whole family and then my

00:18:45 ◼   ► flight leaves on time and Merlin is

00:18:47 ◼   ► still there when I by Merlin so it was

00:18:52 ◼   ► it was there's tons of snow in Boston

00:18:53 ◼   ► there's been huge delays and also it was

00:18:56 ◼   ► a day that are the cruise ship defecates

00:18:58 ◼   ► all the people out of its bowels and

00:19:00 ◼   ► send them on their way through this tiny

00:19:01 ◼   ► little airport

00:19:02 ◼   ► plus there's been like some kind of

00:19:03 ◼   ► crazy bike race that day and I just been

00:19:06 ◼   ► kind of a clusterfuck all around for

00:19:07 ◼   ► everybody

00:19:08 ◼   ► yeah the place was full of people from

00:19:10 ◼   ► the cruise like standing around charging

00:19:12 ◼   ► things and talking

00:19:13 ◼   ► well this is the funny thing about now

00:19:14 ◼   ► having been on i am i'm not sure whether

00:19:18 ◼   ► i'm proud to say i guess i'm proud to

00:19:21 ◼   ► say hello

00:19:23 ◼   ► uh-huh so there's an asterix and there

00:19:25 ◼   ► somewhere

00:19:26 ◼   ► but proud to say that I've done seven

00:19:28 ◼   ► pleasure cruises now and and one of the

00:19:34 ◼   ► insights i have gleaned is that the

00:19:37 ◼   ► first time you get off a cruise and you

00:19:40 ◼   ► try and make it through fort lauderdale

00:19:42 ◼   ► or through orlando port whatever the

00:19:46 ◼   ► freaking port up there is called try to

00:19:49 ◼   ► make it through to the airport you have

00:19:51 ◼   ► that feeling of like oh my god an entire

00:19:53 ◼   ► cruise ship just emptied out and now

00:19:55 ◼   ► this town is trying to deal with this

00:19:57 ◼   ► like amazing like unprecedented influx

00:20:00 ◼   ► of people it was it it's like that you

00:20:03 ◼   ► know in the beginning of godfather to

00:20:04 ◼   ► all the immigrants are like standing

00:20:06 ◼   ► around you know we're going to move and

00:20:09 ◼   ► it and the guys talking to you and you

00:20:11 ◼   ► only speak Italian and many stamps you

00:20:13 ◼   ► on the forehead and that's right let's

00:20:14 ◼   ► see what I said was in the room and

00:20:16 ◼   ► swing your legs and sing yourself yeah

00:20:17 ◼   ► butBut what I have what I realized over

00:20:20 ◼   ► time is that every single day in fort

00:20:23 ◼   ► lauderdale five cruise ship stock and

00:20:25 ◼   ► empty out which as in our case have

00:20:27 ◼   ► something four thousand passengers

00:20:29 ◼   ► yeah but this happens every single day

00:20:32 ◼   ► and has four for 15 years so so the the

00:20:37 ◼   ► the fact is that the all the whole

00:20:40 ◼   ► purpose of the fort lauderdale airport

00:20:42 ◼   ► is too is it is like the it's the lower

00:20:46 ◼   ► intestine of this whole process and all

00:20:49 ◼   ► the last piece of the bow for that and

00:20:51 ◼   ► it's just squeezing these poops through

00:20:54 ◼   ► like it here comes a cruise ship and

00:20:57 ◼   ► bloor and it just like squeezes them out

00:21:00 ◼   ► into their airplanes like there's no

00:21:02 ◼   ► purpose like all the roads in fort

00:21:04 ◼   ► lauderdale that whole container yard all

00:21:08 ◼   ► those different people with with like

00:21:10 ◼   ► different security badges that are

00:21:12 ◼   ► yelling at you when you walk out of the

00:21:13 ◼   ► cruise ship terminal the whole process

00:21:16 ◼   ► that happens five times a day every day

00:21:19 ◼   ► and so so the first time you do it

00:21:22 ◼   ► you're like well I understand why these

00:21:23 ◼   ► people seem incompetent and why this

00:21:25 ◼   ► process so janky because how how would

00:21:28 ◼   ► you process 4,000 people all at once

00:21:30 ◼   ► mr. just a rotten gee I mean I felt it

00:21:32 ◼   ► you know we did like the lifeboat drills

00:21:34 ◼   ► on the first day we go out you learn

00:21:36 ◼   ► your lifeboat is and it's just pretty

00:21:37 ◼   ► perfunctory but it's enough to at least

00:21:38 ◼   ► know where to go

00:21:39 ◼   ► yeah and even that whole thing was

00:21:41 ◼   ► pretty well-organized the all you gotta

00:21:43 ◼   ► do is get people on a boat but on the

00:21:45 ◼   ► morning the debarking whatever you call

00:21:47 ◼   ► of pooping out the passengers it started

00:21:50 ◼   ► at like my like seven in the morning and

00:21:52 ◼   ► went on to like noon because there's so

00:21:55 ◼   ► many people and so many bags so much

00:21:57 ◼   ► custom so much to coordinate it takes

00:21:58 ◼   ► hours and hours and hours to get people

00:22:00 ◼   ► off in a peaceful fashion

00:22:02 ◼   ► yeah it's crazy except if you did it

00:22:07 ◼   ► every day in which case it would

00:22:10 ◼   ► presumably overtime stop being crazy and

00:22:13 ◼   ► start being a matter of course and yet

00:22:16 ◼   ► it never ever is right what like we got

00:22:19 ◼   ► off the boat and were there and that

00:22:20 ◼   ► they're sending us through customs and

00:22:22 ◼   ► it's like hey you guys know at a certain

00:22:24 ◼   ► hour

00:22:25 ◼   ► you can't miss the boat here it comes

00:22:27 ◼   ► right here comes at a certain hour

00:22:29 ◼   ► you're gonna have 4,000 people that want

00:22:31 ◼   ► to get off this boat all the same time

00:22:32 ◼   ► so how it is nobody there's nobody is

00:22:35 ◼   ► happy about having to wait about any

00:22:37 ◼   ► aspect of right i mean if you knew that

00:22:39 ◼   ► this was going to happen

00:22:40 ◼   ► how would you design a system to

00:22:42 ◼   ► accommodate it and and yet every time

00:22:45 ◼   ► ever and I'm sure this is true of every

00:22:47 ◼   ► ship because it's been true for all

00:22:49 ◼   ► seven boats that I've gotten off of

00:22:50 ◼   ► every time it seems like the people in

00:22:53 ◼   ► the people there that are running the

00:22:55 ◼   ► system are like what

00:22:57 ◼   ► oh shit is that boat here already oh

00:23:00 ◼   ► fuck well we should open two lanes and I

00:23:05 ◼   ► at least two lanes ever you're right

00:23:08 ◼   ► then um there's a number of apertures

00:23:10 ◼   ► that could have been a lot lawyer at

00:23:12 ◼   ► every step away

00:23:13 ◼   ► like for instance the global entry

00:23:17 ◼   ► system which the customs and and TSA

00:23:22 ◼   ► have spent millions and millions of

00:23:25 ◼   ► dollars implementing this global entry

00:23:26 ◼   ► system which allows passengers who are

00:23:30 ◼   ► in the program including myself to speed

00:23:34 ◼   ► through customs other re-entry into port

00:23:38 ◼   ► or into a into the contract because

00:23:39 ◼   ► you've been vetted and checked out

00:23:41 ◼   ► internet you're not risky

00:23:43 ◼   ► yeah and you're you you you you have

00:23:45 ◼   ► assured the government that you do not

00:23:47 ◼   ► intend to bring any any vermin-infested

00:23:51 ◼   ► breadfruit back into the country and

00:23:54 ◼   ► then immediately throw it on the ground

00:23:56 ◼   ► like you you eat use you you have proved

00:24:00 ◼   ► to them that you are just a normal

00:24:01 ◼   ► person who is neither a drug smuggler

00:24:04 ◼   ► nor an al-qaeda operatives and so you do

00:24:08 ◼   ► not need to be retina scanned again by

00:24:13 ◼   ► spino by some person who can pass the

00:24:16 ◼   ► job interview in florida for the first

00:24:18 ◼   ► security job and yet the first time that

00:24:21 ◼   ► I i arrived at the terminal on my first

00:24:24 ◼   ► cruise ever i was like where's your

00:24:25 ◼   ► global entry system and they're like we

00:24:27 ◼   ► don't have those and cruise terminals I

00:24:29 ◼   ► was like really it's just the simplest

00:24:31 ◼   ► thing you just put it's like a couple of

00:24:33 ◼   ► atms over on the side and then ten

00:24:36 ◼   ► percent of of this job would go away

00:24:39 ◼   ► nope we just don't have them and so for

00:24:41 ◼   ► seven years or five years I've been

00:24:43 ◼   ► waiting for them to and they just just

00:24:45 ◼   ► not a thing I mean they have been it

00:24:49 ◼   ► would benefit them it's not something

00:24:50 ◼   ► we're saying i want to be a fancy lad

00:24:51 ◼   ► that it's something that would help the

00:24:53 ◼   ► entire process it's part of the system

00:24:54 ◼   ► that they've already built for exactly

00:24:57 ◼   ► this job and they I'm sure they have

00:24:58 ◼   ► global entry at the boise international

00:25:02 ◼   ► airport for the 15 people that come from

00:25:05 ◼   ► Calgary everyday on the but you know in

00:25:08 ◼   ► a javelin beaver they probably have a

00:25:11 ◼   ► global entry kiosk there but for the

00:25:14 ◼   ► cruise ship terminal where five ships

00:25:16 ◼   ► disgorge 4,000 passengers each day right

00:25:20 ◼   ► right

00:25:21 ◼   ► they do not what they have there is like

00:25:23 ◼   ► some traffic cones some retirees who

00:25:27 ◼   ► liked who they've pinned you know some

00:25:30 ◼   ► Western Airlines wings on their shirt

00:25:32 ◼   ► and said you're out you're in charge of

00:25:34 ◼   ► security and and then you know we're all

00:25:37 ◼   ► just standing in line as though it's

00:25:39 ◼   ► never happened before it's just

00:25:41 ◼   ► fascinating is that is exactly right

00:25:42 ◼   ► it's funny cuz you know and having gone

00:25:44 ◼   ► through customs and coming in and out of

00:25:47 ◼   ► other countries via plane you know if

00:25:50 ◼   ► there's something about it

00:25:51 ◼   ► it's very serious and we do that in an

00:25:55 ◼   ► airport there's all kinds of like you

00:25:57 ◼   ► know it's not really i want to say tense

00:26:00 ◼   ► not just personally test but it's like

00:26:02 ◼   ► you have to take this really seriously

00:26:03 ◼   ► like I really want to feel your format

00:26:05 ◼   ► right everybody here is very

00:26:06 ◼   ► professional

00:26:08 ◼   ► they're they're moving you know pace

00:26:09 ◼   ► because the number one way that people

00:26:11 ◼   ► bring AK forty-sevens into the United

00:26:14 ◼   ► States is via a klm flight from

00:26:19 ◼   ► amsterdam yeah for me coming from can

00:26:21 ◼   ► now I'm gonna have some guns but the but

00:26:23 ◼   ► the end of the line is obviously it's

00:26:25 ◼   ► very long but it's sensible as it can be

00:26:29 ◼   ► understood and i don't mean this is a

00:26:32 ◼   ► complaint except to say this giant

00:26:34 ◼   ► hanger that you go through when you get

00:26:37 ◼   ► off the get the boat shuttle down and

00:26:39 ◼   ► you go into the longest line you've ever

00:26:41 ◼   ► been in your life but in part that's

00:26:43 ◼   ► funny about it is it really seems like

00:26:45 ◼   ► the regular building wasn't available

00:26:47 ◼   ► that day yes that's exactly right and

00:26:49 ◼   ► you know you know that that building was

00:26:52 ◼   ► built for no other purpose

00:26:54 ◼   ► yeah it yet it feels repurposed like you

00:26:57 ◼   ► that they take you by making you walk

00:26:59 ◼   ► through rows of chairs in a waiting room

00:27:01 ◼   ► at first but Diana weird get any going

00:27:05 ◼   ► to wait another line that it's not a

00:27:06 ◼   ► complaint accept it is much just saying

00:27:08 ◼   ► it's funny that that amount of pure

00:27:10 ◼   ► infrastructure that has to be dealt with

00:27:11 ◼   ► like at least once a week and I'm

00:27:13 ◼   ► guessing a lot more it seems like it

00:27:15 ◼   ► would be a little bit better thought out

00:27:17 ◼   ► and then you get to the end eurozone

00:27:18 ◼   ► this line is really long because there's

00:27:19 ◼   ► like three people take care of this

00:27:22 ◼   ► yeah and they're mad the whole system

00:27:24 ◼   ► and then and then you do you get to the

00:27:26 ◼   ► fort lauderdale airport it's like oh how

00:27:28 ◼   ► how would this what would we

00:27:31 ◼   ► how would we ever have imagined the

00:27:33 ◼   ► 4,000 people descend on this airport all

00:27:35 ◼   ► at once and and that and there this is

00:27:37 ◼   ► the crazy thing because the first couple

00:27:39 ◼   ► of times I did it I really did I really

00:27:41 ◼   ► was sympathetic to the whole I was

00:27:44 ◼   ► sympathetic to Fort Lauderdale right

00:27:46 ◼   ► like also you know fort lauderdale

00:27:48 ◼   ► that's like the king of spring break

00:27:49 ◼   ► like that their whole city is about true

00:27:51 ◼   ► people moving through their city for

00:27:53 ◼   ► just a little bit of time I 80,000

00:27:55 ◼   ► people a day probably come there right

00:27:57 ◼   ► now starting right

00:27:58 ◼   ► now so I I end and the funny thing is i

00:28:02 ◼   ► have found the town of Fort Lauderdale

00:28:05 ◼   ► to be actually fairly charming in the

00:28:08 ◼   ► sense that you know those art galleries

00:28:10 ◼   ► that sell like like maybe half scale but

00:28:16 ◼   ► like just big enough that you think like

00:28:18 ◼   ► is that life size but it's not it's just

00:28:20 ◼   ► slightly scaled-down maybe maybe maybe

00:28:23 ◼   ► one half for one-third scale a bronze

00:28:27 ◼   ► statues of an elf riding a dragon on

00:28:31 ◼   ► slow kinda like the sort of thing you

00:28:34 ◼   ► see kind your Union Square lots of

00:28:36 ◼   ► things in bisque or lots of you know

00:28:39 ◼   ► what I mean there's lots and lots of

00:28:39 ◼   ► figurines not that could be magical

00:28:42 ◼   ► creatures but that's it yeah that that

00:28:45 ◼   ► people must really want to buy those

00:28:47 ◼   ► when they travel well the thing is and

00:28:48 ◼   ► then you look at it it's 75 thousand

00:28:50 ◼   ► dollars and you're like this is an

00:28:52 ◼   ► incredible this this this statue of this

00:28:56 ◼   ► elf riding a dragon on top of the globe

00:28:58 ◼   ► made out of the actual bronze that is

00:29:02 ◼   ► that stands eight feet tall and cost

00:29:05 ◼   ► seventy-five thousand dollars this is a

00:29:07 ◼   ► thing that some guy I don't doubt that

00:29:11 ◼   ► someone made it i don't doubt I I don't

00:29:13 ◼   ► for a second question the impulse of

00:29:15 ◼   ► someone making it right but then that

00:29:18 ◼   ► that every other step of the way like it

00:29:20 ◼   ► got transported here by someone and now

00:29:22 ◼   ► at an art gallery owner thought to make

00:29:26 ◼   ► it his centerpiece and people come by

00:29:29 ◼   ► and look at it until one day somebody

00:29:31 ◼   ► says I must have that doesn't like an

00:29:33 ◼   ► oligarch maybe some students i must have

00:29:35 ◼   ► the self

00:29:36 ◼   ► yes right but an oligarchy comes through

00:29:38 ◼   ► Fort Lauderdale on his way our to

00:29:40 ◼   ► vacation and he's like this is amazing

00:29:42 ◼   ► I've must have this in my mention dragon

00:29:45 ◼   ► is exquisite

00:29:46 ◼   ► I am the dragon or i am the else

00:29:49 ◼   ► and-and-and-and Fort Lauderdale is full

00:29:52 ◼   ► of that kind of art gallery not just

00:29:54 ◼   ► Thomas Kinkade The Painter of Light but

00:29:57 ◼   ► all of Thomas Kincaid spiritual and

00:30:00 ◼   ► artistic you know like peers other

00:30:04 ◼   ► painters of lights painters of dark

00:30:06 ◼   ► painters of painters that use both light

00:30:10 ◼   ► and dark in their paintings

00:30:11 ◼   ► and and so the town there's there's not

00:30:15 ◼   ► a lot to recommend the town you would

00:30:17 ◼   ► think until you take the whole of Fort

00:30:19 ◼   ► Lauderdale into your into your

00:30:21 ◼   ► conscience conscious

00:30:24 ◼   ► yeah and then I i found it remarkable

00:30:26 ◼   ► and wonderful

00:30:27 ◼   ► yeah it's a literacy what you're

00:30:29 ◼   ► describing first of all I mean there is

00:30:31 ◼   ► this certain kind of its you know this

00:30:35 ◼   ► is what travel does it exposed us to

00:30:36 ◼   ► things you never see your things you

00:30:37 ◼   ► never think about and for me that is the

00:30:39 ◼   ► partly the wide world of what people

00:30:43 ◼   ► perceive of as high-end art the receipt

00:30:47 ◼   ► I an art that was on display on this

00:30:49 ◼   ► cruise for the big auction the big art

00:30:52 ◼   ► auction was some of the most amazing

00:30:54 ◼   ► stuff I've ever seen in my life because

00:30:56 ◼   ► it was kind of like the baby had the

00:30:58 ◼   ► aesthetic yeah that's what you're

00:30:59 ◼   ► describing is this is common as you know

00:31:01 ◼   ► in San Francisco there's gosh Las Vegas

00:31:03 ◼   ► everywhere you go in Las Vegas you see

00:31:05 ◼   ► this kind of epic like beyond kitschy

00:31:08 ◼   ► art but that's meant to be very very

00:31:11 ◼   ► high-end the painting is never just a

00:31:12 ◼   ► painting it's got like inch thick

00:31:14 ◼   ► impasto like you can practically feel it

00:31:16 ◼   ► no that's you know here's here seven

00:31:19 ◼   ► seven paintings of Muhammad Ali and

00:31:20 ◼   ► garfield the cat or something but it

00:31:22 ◼   ► takes it has this the aesthetic of like

00:31:26 ◼   ► sky mall in some ways that kind of like

00:31:29 ◼   ► you know you can have a zombie crawling

00:31:30 ◼   ► out of the ground on in your backyard or

00:31:32 ◼   ► something like that but it has that like

00:31:34 ◼   ► the phrase on a tree face and yeah but

00:31:36 ◼   ► that over real aesthetic but a little

00:31:40 ◼   ► cartoony and much bigger than life and

00:31:43 ◼   ► insanely expensive given how like

00:31:45 ◼   ► ridiculously tacky it is but it's

00:31:47 ◼   ► everywhere people must be buying it to

00:31:49 ◼   ► remember when we were kids you know so

00:31:52 ◼   ► much of so much of what we experienced

00:31:54 ◼   ► when we were kids was the hangover of

00:31:58 ◼   ► the sixties oh god yes it's like the

00:32:00 ◼   ► Spencer Gifts kind of effect

00:32:02 ◼   ► yeah yeah the the sort of all the stuff

00:32:04 ◼   ► all the furniture in the waiting rooms

00:32:08 ◼   ► of places all the art if you really was

00:32:10 ◼   ► stuck in what felt like a five or eight

00:32:12 ◼   ► year aesthetic of everything's kind of

00:32:15 ◼   ► brown and orange segments are pretty and

00:32:19 ◼   ► mentally

00:32:20 ◼   ► maybe the some weird dark wood remember

00:32:23 ◼   ► I I

00:32:24 ◼   ► for whatever reason and this may just be

00:32:25 ◼   ► my experience but but I remember feeling

00:32:29 ◼   ► like well first of all spanish spain had

00:32:35 ◼   ► been had been very popular sometime in

00:32:36 ◼   ► the fifties and so there was a lot of

00:32:39 ◼   ► Tory adorar there was a lot of heavy

00:32:43 ◼   ► Spanish likely neo Spanish looking

00:32:46 ◼   ► furniture in places but but a kind of a

00:32:50 ◼   ► lot of this like thick painted this is

00:32:57 ◼   ► like super thick coatings of yeah I'm

00:33:01 ◼   ► like.he like oversized wooden chairs

00:33:04 ◼   ► right but the aesthetic was meant to be

00:33:06 ◼   ► at once opulent and rustic like not nice

00:33:09 ◼   ► that's been putting this poorly but but

00:33:11 ◼   ► that feeling of like the word customized

00:33:13 ◼   ► antiqued might even it was meant to feel

00:33:15 ◼   ► very old and pretentious and rich

00:33:18 ◼   ► ya like like a arm like maybe triggers

00:33:23 ◼   ► were everywhere that story was really

00:33:24 ◼   ► where

00:33:25 ◼   ► yeah but but also also uh it was

00:33:28 ◼   ► supposed to be is it like hacienda or or

00:33:33 ◼   ► Spanish it wasn't spanish colonial it

00:33:35 ◼   ► was like it was Spain not not Spain in

00:33:39 ◼   ► the in the New World Spain like in a

00:33:42 ◼   ► zorro zorro thank you but it but sorrow

00:33:45 ◼   ► was was was latin america was a zero

00:33:49 ◼   ► most takes place in California but of

00:33:51 ◼   ► course you know goes to school as a kid

00:33:52 ◼   ► in in Spain and it's all that aesthetic

00:33:55 ◼   ► is very much in place

00:33:56 ◼   ► yes Ryan Zorro it's hard to put a finger

00:33:58 ◼   ► on but I get I know exactly what you

00:34:00 ◼   ► mean all kinds of Latin influence but

00:34:03 ◼   ► also Italian like that italian

00:34:05 ◼   ► restaurant kind of feeling but there's a

00:34:07 ◼   ► few things like whether it was like an

00:34:09 ◼   ► El Cid or a donkey OD oh yeah figure

00:34:13 ◼   ► events but very but but like it should

00:34:16 ◼   ► look old but it should also feel very

00:34:18 ◼   ► luxe lady make locks

00:34:21 ◼   ► yeah old luck Spanish Italian minutes so

00:34:24 ◼   ► I feel like I feel like that when I was

00:34:27 ◼   ► a kid I remember you know we thought we

00:34:30 ◼   ► talked to everybody so fascinated and

00:34:32 ◼   ► fixated on mid-century modern

00:34:34 ◼   ► and imagining that they're all going to

00:34:37 ◼   ► live in like in the glass house with no

00:34:40 ◼   ► decoration and just these really minimal

00:34:43 ◼   ► low-slung couches and chairs but they

00:34:46 ◼   ► forget but i think i think my generation

00:34:48 ◼   ► my parents thought that looked cheap I

00:34:50 ◼   ► don't they thought it was that it would

00:34:51 ◼   ► buy something very inexpensive that

00:34:53 ◼   ► looked fake luxurious all of our

00:34:55 ◼   ► furniture was way over sized for the

00:34:56 ◼   ► room it was in a way too many borough

00:34:59 ◼   ► key rococo curlicues I mean very few

00:35:03 ◼   ► things had right angles it was it was

00:35:04 ◼   ► all just bombastic right it was Liberace

00:35:08 ◼   ► furniture and and people forget that

00:35:12 ◼   ► mid-century the mid-century aesthetic

00:35:15 ◼   ► was much more Liberace Liberace humping

00:35:19 ◼   ► el cid that it was Don Draper like

00:35:24 ◼   ► laying on a on a low-slung challenge yet

00:35:27 ◼   ► I mean what-what people now think of as

00:35:29 ◼   ► mid-century modern like super cheap

00:35:31 ◼   ► versions of stuff like that what you

00:35:33 ◼   ► would get from S&H Green Stamps it

00:35:34 ◼   ► wasn't what you would use to appoint

00:35:36 ◼   ► your house if you are now becoming lower

00:35:37 ◼   ► middle-class person but so I feel like

00:35:39 ◼   ► you want your I feel exactly your

00:35:42 ◼   ► experience of cruise art which is that

00:35:45 ◼   ► it is the spiritual descendant of that

00:35:49 ◼   ► like opulent like fake opulent a some

00:35:54 ◼   ► vaguely Mediterranean aesthetic that I

00:35:59 ◼   ► look at a time just like this is one

00:36:01 ◼   ► step away from doe eyed children

00:36:05 ◼   ► you're absolutely right and he's funny

00:36:07 ◼   ► shit and also think about how hot most

00:36:09 ◼   ► of the colors are in these in these

00:36:10 ◼   ► paintings they're always and again i

00:36:12 ◼   ► can't get away from thinking about the

00:36:14 ◼   ► skymall thinking about when I was a kid

00:36:17 ◼   ► with Spencer's but also there's one

00:36:19 ◼   ► store called Gallagher's they were

00:36:20 ◼   ► basically like head shops you remember

00:36:22 ◼   ► the stores in malls when we were kids

00:36:24 ◼   ► right yeah we're kind of like it was a

00:36:26 ◼   ► headshop head shop but started as a

00:36:29 ◼   ► headshot mostly blacks whites regular

00:36:31 ◼   ► store peaches sure but in these didn't

00:36:34 ◼   ► you get your posters you get your you

00:36:36 ◼   ► know slightly off color like you know

00:36:38 ◼   ► bachelor party gifts there you can get

00:36:41 ◼   ► the little balls the clock into each

00:36:42 ◼   ► other and go back and forth you know

00:36:45 ◼   ► what I bought one of those mmm

00:36:46 ◼   ► one of my favorite of all time things

00:36:49 ◼   ► and I got this in probably 78 it was I

00:36:54 ◼   ► maybe three foot tall like punching

00:36:58 ◼   ► dummy remember these the whatever that

00:37:01 ◼   ► there was like a stress and admit to be

00:37:03 ◼   ► a stress reducer yeah stress reducer was

00:37:05 ◼   ► it was waiting on the bottom

00:37:07 ◼   ► uh-huh it was blow up i'm sure look like

00:37:10 ◼   ► a clown or something like that was in

00:37:11 ◼   ► the shape of a it was in the shape of a

00:37:14 ◼   ► schmoo except it was called qik Tricky

00:37:18 ◼   ► Dick and it had it had Richard Nixon it

00:37:23 ◼   ► was Richard Nixon a screen-printed on it

00:37:26 ◼   ► goes running back like like his face was

00:37:29 ◼   ► from facing you and then the back of his

00:37:32 ◼   ► head was you know they had gone to the

00:37:34 ◼   ► trouble of doing two designs and it was

00:37:36 ◼   ► a bloody basically a three-foot-tall

00:37:38 ◼   ► blow-up know maybe taller three

00:37:40 ◼   ► three-and-a-half feet blow-up doll of

00:37:43 ◼   ► Richard Nixon that you were meant to

00:37:45 ◼   ► kick when you were mad wow and i got it

00:37:49 ◼   ► at a head shop in the mall and I was so

00:37:51 ◼   ► proud of it I got it had shopping mall

00:37:53 ◼   ► in 1978 politically relevant though and

00:37:56 ◼   ► I was so proud of this thing and I kept

00:37:59 ◼   ► it i did it was displayed prominently in

00:38:00 ◼   ► my room I haven't thought about that in

00:38:03 ◼   ► years my god i I've got a lot of posters

00:38:05 ◼   ► i would buy presents for like mothers

00:38:08 ◼   ► day I would like world's greatest mom

00:38:10 ◼   ► figurines from my mom there but there

00:38:13 ◼   ► was a kind of over but you can

00:38:14 ◼   ► understand the overriding aesthetic

00:38:15 ◼   ► though was I mean tackies the wrong word

00:38:20 ◼   ► for it

00:38:20 ◼   ► it was it's so like insane you know you

00:38:22 ◼   ► joke a lot about like the app class guys

00:38:24 ◼   ► having a poster with a girl in a

00:38:26 ◼   ► Lamborghini the only thing that got in

00:38:27 ◼   ► there 15 million-dollar house it's not

00:38:30 ◼   ► so far from that kind of aesthetic in

00:38:31 ◼   ► some ways though where it's like I need

00:38:33 ◼   ► to go buy some things to put in here to

00:38:35 ◼   ► make this place classy

00:38:36 ◼   ► Yeah right right right right like yeah I

00:38:39 ◼   ► i can I know I i know enough i know just

00:38:42 ◼   ► enough to know that my 14,000 square

00:38:45 ◼   ► foot house looks unlived in with you

00:38:50 ◼   ► because I only live in the kitchen in

00:38:52 ◼   ► the TV room like III had a pretty good

00:38:55 ◼   ► friend who made some rock and roll money

00:38:58 ◼   ► and he had never you know he lived with

00:39:00 ◼   ► his parents until he was in a rock band

00:39:02 ◼   ► and then and then all the sudden had a

00:39:07 ◼   ► bad at all son was rich and he bought a

00:39:09 ◼   ► I bought a pretty big house for himself

00:39:12 ◼   ► mid-century modern but he didn't know

00:39:14 ◼   ► how to

00:39:16 ◼   ► he hadn't he didn't he had fully

00:39:18 ◼   ► domesticated himself and he was kind of

00:39:19 ◼   ► waiting i think to get married you I

00:39:23 ◼   ► lived in this freedom five-bedroom house

00:39:26 ◼   ► and he had had one room he had a bed in

00:39:31 ◼   ► his bedroom and then he had some kind of

00:39:35 ◼   ► folding chairs in the in the living room

00:39:38 ◼   ► a place for people to sit here that's

00:39:41 ◼   ► nice

00:39:42 ◼   ► and then he had a game room with the

00:39:46 ◼   ► with the biggest TV you could buy at the

00:39:47 ◼   ► time and all of his all the stuff that

00:39:49 ◼   ► he cared about and I when we would go

00:39:52 ◼   ► over there it was very difficult to have

00:39:54 ◼   ► a party there because first of all

00:39:55 ◼   ► there's no place to sit and second of

00:39:58 ◼   ► all there's nothing to look at but but

00:40:00 ◼   ► you know we would sometimes go there in

00:40:01 ◼   ► for poker games where I would imagine

00:40:04 ◼   ► him coming home on those days when he

00:40:07 ◼   ► was just by himself like come in for his

00:40:09 ◼   ► keys in the in the key jar stand in the

00:40:14 ◼   ► entry a and look survey like the

00:40:19 ◼   ► thousands of square feet at his disposal

00:40:21 ◼   ► and then like right into the game room

00:40:23 ◼   ► close the door and I couldn't I couldn't

00:40:26 ◼   ► tell whether it was sad or wonderful i'm

00:40:29 ◼   ► still not sure even now he lives in a

00:40:31 ◼   ► beauty is married now and he lives in a

00:40:33 ◼   ► beautiful home that is beautifully

00:40:34 ◼   ► decorated let you know when you're

00:40:38 ◼   ► trying to I mean again I i feel like i

00:40:42 ◼   ► can speak with some Authority on this

00:40:45 ◼   ► coming from

00:40:46 ◼   ► you know lower to middle class lower

00:40:48 ◼   ► middle class and we weren't like you

00:40:50 ◼   ► know impoverished but we didn't have a

00:40:52 ◼   ► lot of dough and you know my parents

00:40:55 ◼   ► born in the you know late twenties early

00:40:58 ◼   ► thirties but like there was definitely

00:41:00 ◼   ► this sense of like I don't know it's

00:41:03 ◼   ► almost like the kind of thing you'd see

00:41:05 ◼   ► like in a martin scorsese movie of where

00:41:07 ◼   ► where people are trying to bring these

00:41:09 ◼   ► things into their life

00:41:11 ◼   ► that will the aisle I guess we all try

00:41:13 ◼   ► to do this bring in something that says

00:41:14 ◼   ► something about who you're becoming

00:41:16 ◼   ► right not just like it isn't like you

00:41:19 ◼   ► want you certainly don't want your your

00:41:21 ◼   ► your parents furniture you want your own

00:41:23 ◼   ► so you get this very very inexpensive

00:41:25 ◼   ► furniture that is meant to be extremely

00:41:28 ◼   ► fancy so in our case remember in 1976 we

00:41:31 ◼   ► bought this French Rococo furniture for

00:41:34 ◼   ► the house everything was French like

00:41:36 ◼   ► rococo and it really kinda looked like

00:41:38 ◼   ► something out of Goodfellas you know and

00:41:41 ◼   ► but it was it was all so poorly made it

00:41:43 ◼   ► was mostly hollow would you know what I

00:41:45 ◼   ► mean yeah but it was supposed to add all

00:41:47 ◼   ► those curly cues that you would hope

00:41:50 ◼   ► would denote a certain kind of fanciness

00:41:52 ◼   ► yeah did you guys have that what you

00:41:54 ◼   ► would you have also when my mom uh left

00:41:57 ◼   ► my dad we move down to Seattle and in

00:42:01 ◼   ► the like perfect expression of who she

00:42:06 ◼   ► was and what she what her aspirations

00:42:09 ◼   ► were she outfitted our house like we had

00:42:14 ◼   ► no money she outfit in our house with

00:42:18 ◼   ► furniture that i cannot even begin to

00:42:22 ◼   ► describe except i will now try was it

00:42:25 ◼   ► was new or used for it was brand-new

00:42:27 ◼   ► what you get you get really good credit

00:42:29 ◼   ► this place is John you can basically

00:42:31 ◼   ► vanilla room but now think about who my

00:42:33 ◼   ► mom is

00:42:34 ◼   ► hm she's not going to is very practical

00:42:38 ◼   ► she's not going to go in debt to some

00:42:40 ◼   ► yuzuriha scred' 'it situation at a

00:42:44 ◼   ► furniture store so our furniture and I'm

00:42:47 ◼   ► talking about our entire house was red

00:42:51 ◼   ► painted paper towel tubes that were

00:42:57 ◼   ► connected with little plastic l-shaped

00:43:01 ◼   ► connectors so you take a paper towel

00:43:03 ◼   ► tube and stick a connector in it and

00:43:06 ◼   ► then it would L and you'd stick another

00:43:09 ◼   ► paper towel tube and not literally

00:43:12 ◼   ► well no they were poster tubes so so I

00:43:16 ◼   ► almost looks like pool furniture except

00:43:21 ◼   ► casual-like lounge except literally made

00:43:25 ◼   ► out of cardboard somehow my god so the

00:43:30 ◼   ► l's and-and-and-and-and a lot of the

00:43:32 ◼   ► joints were three-way right so you have

00:43:34 ◼   ► one in the top tube and then to add a at

00:43:38 ◼   ► a 90-degree angle or or yeah a 90 degree

00:43:42 ◼   ► angle to one another to make the two

00:43:44 ◼   ► sides of a table and you would just

00:43:46 ◼   ► build these cubes out of poster tubes

00:43:51 ◼   ► and they were the poster tubes were just

00:43:53 ◼   ► big enough that like a child could stick

00:43:55 ◼   ► their hand inside the tube

00:43:57 ◼   ► yeah um literally like the poster tubes

00:44:03 ◼   ► that had been painted red and then the

00:44:05 ◼   ► the plastic parts were white and then

00:44:08 ◼   ► over the top of you so you build a cube

00:44:11 ◼   ► out of that and then there was a piece

00:44:12 ◼   ► of plastic like um like whiteboard color

00:44:17 ◼   ► that you would put over the top of it

00:44:20 ◼   ► and that was your coffee table and then

00:44:22 ◼   ► you would make another cube and are

00:44:24 ◼   ► these were your end tables and then then

00:44:26 ◼   ► there was a long cube which we call a

00:44:29 ◼   ► rectangle a long low rectangle that you

00:44:33 ◼   ► that was your that was your main coffee

00:44:34 ◼   ► table and now there was actually

00:44:37 ◼   ► furniture that you could sit on made out

00:44:40 ◼   ► of these cardboard tubes that were you

00:44:44 ◼   ► know assets by combining the right

00:44:46 ◼   ► combination of these some you know these

00:44:49 ◼   ► plastic adapters and whatnot that you

00:44:51 ◼   ► could make a thing strong enough to hold

00:44:53 ◼   ► an adult and this was our living room

00:44:57 ◼   ► furniture and for a long time listen I

00:45:00 ◼   ► mean what did you build them he was it

00:45:02 ◼   ► modular where you buy the pieces and put

00:45:04 ◼   ► it together yourself yeah yeah

00:45:06 ◼   ► and-and-and just because of the nature

00:45:09 ◼   ► of it you were building them and and

00:45:11 ◼   ► rebuilding them every single day because

00:45:13 ◼   ► because as a kid right you could take

00:45:17 ◼   ► the furniture part it and as an adult I

00:45:20 ◼   ► think people would sit down and be like

00:45:21 ◼   ► this furniture is made out of cardboard

00:45:24 ◼   ► tubes and they would like take it apart

00:45:26 ◼   ► just out of fascination sure and then

00:45:29 ◼   ► put it back

00:45:30 ◼   ► you gotta be like well that's really

00:45:31 ◼   ► amazing and it was amazing and i can't

00:45:34 ◼   ► believe that i mean because it couldn't

00:45:38 ◼   ► have been cheaper to produce I can't

00:45:40 ◼   ► believe that it's not still feature

00:45:42 ◼   ► except that like it would be terrible

00:45:44 ◼   ► dorm room furniture because the first

00:45:46 ◼   ► time somebody got drunk and leaned on

00:45:48 ◼   ► something like the whole witches would

00:45:51 ◼   ► be destroyed like you had to be somewhat

00:45:55 ◼   ► ginger like it's not like you could

00:45:57 ◼   ► climb on the coffee table right i mean

00:45:59 ◼   ► it would break in seven hundred ways so

00:46:02 ◼   ► but this was her solution she needed

00:46:05 ◼   ► furniture for our house and she found

00:46:08 ◼   ► this there's a part of me at the time

00:46:10 ◼   ► that thought maybe she had just gone to

00:46:12 ◼   ► run to the drug store and bought a bunch

00:46:15 ◼   ► of stuff and painted herself but it but

00:46:17 ◼   ► it had it had a quality where somebody

00:46:21 ◼   ► this was somebody's business plan

00:46:23 ◼   ► somebody had that thought this up and

00:46:27 ◼   ► this was a product they were selling I

00:46:29 ◼   ► never had never seen it anywhere else

00:46:30 ◼   ► and what's amazing is that a few of

00:46:32 ◼   ► those few of those furniture items

00:46:35 ◼   ► stayed with us all the way through to

00:46:40 ◼   ► the mid-eighties right we still had a

00:46:42 ◼   ► couple of those end tables and I is that

00:46:48 ◼   ► they played another role in my life

00:46:51 ◼   ► formative role you make a bong no they

00:46:55 ◼   ► wouldn't have been a terrible bomb stuff

00:46:57 ◼   ► but the coffee table was the first thing

00:47:02 ◼   ► to to go because the big long coffee

00:47:07 ◼   ► table right in front of the in front of

00:47:09 ◼   ► the couch you want to put big books on

00:47:11 ◼   ► it but more importantly you want to put

00:47:13 ◼   ► your feet on it and this thing was just

00:47:16 ◼   ► not strong enough to have a have

00:47:19 ◼   ► somebody put their feet up on the coffee

00:47:21 ◼   ► table and so the coffee table was the

00:47:23 ◼   ► thing that seemed like the tubes were

00:47:27 ◼   ► just too long to support like the first

00:47:30 ◼   ► time some guy came over and through his

00:47:32 ◼   ► feet up there just started to sag

00:47:34 ◼   ► and so when I was learning my

00:47:36 ◼   ► multiplication tables my mom decided

00:47:39 ◼   ► that she was going to sacrifice the

00:47:43 ◼   ► coffee table what remained of the coffee

00:47:44 ◼   ► table she was going to sacrifice to this

00:47:46 ◼   ► project and so she took the top off the

00:47:50 ◼   ► coffee table ended up against the wall

00:47:52 ◼   ► and made a giant and with a black marker

00:47:55 ◼   ► made a giant times tables on it

00:47:58 ◼   ► Wow and we would sit and study our times

00:48:02 ◼   ► tables and she already knew them but we

00:48:05 ◼   ► would sit and I would study my times

00:48:07 ◼   ► tables on this giant coffee table a

00:48:11 ◼   ► piece of plastic and then I think it

00:48:14 ◼   ► went back on the coffee table the

00:48:17 ◼   ► remaining another sort of end and life

00:48:21 ◼   ► of the coffee table it would go you know

00:48:24 ◼   ► facedown and we continue to use it as a

00:48:28 ◼   ► table for a while and then we would flip

00:48:30 ◼   ► it up and do our times tables

00:48:32 ◼   ► um and then eventually like it all went

00:48:36 ◼   ► to the landfill and your mom's a

00:48:38 ◼   ► maverick

00:48:39 ◼   ► yeah well you know you gotta listen man

00:48:43 ◼   ► waste not want not choose to use every

00:48:46 ◼   ► part of the Buffalo this episode of rock

00:48:53 ◼   ► on the line is sponsored by Squarespace

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00:50:20 ◼   ► Squarespace build it beautiful oh my god

00:50:24 ◼   ► i found some my daughters getting to

00:50:28 ◼   ► that age where she likes looking at old

00:50:29 ◼   ► pictures like old family pictures and

00:50:31 ◼   ► she found a bunch the other night

00:50:33 ◼   ► actually the last night that confirmed

00:50:36 ◼   ► something I thought I was misremembering

00:50:38 ◼   ► but that we were actually one of those

00:50:42 ◼   ► families that on on the nice furniture

00:50:46 ◼   ► we would always put like plastic

00:50:49 ◼   ► oh sure sure you did because you

00:50:51 ◼   ► listened oh yeah this but like I goes is

00:50:53 ◼   ► something everybody did like when once

00:50:55 ◼   ► you arrive and i don't remember this is

00:50:57 ◼   ► not super interesting but i do remember

00:50:58 ◼   ► you know back then everybody would

00:51:00 ◼   ► arrive at a point where like I get not

00:51:02 ◼   ► everybody but it was not uncommon to

00:51:04 ◼   ► arrive at a point where you had a place

00:51:06 ◼   ► that you're renting and maybe you're

00:51:08 ◼   ► making a little more money than before

00:51:09 ◼   ► you're mostly making ends meet and I see

00:51:11 ◼   ► my really feel like I remember the

00:51:12 ◼   ► furniture companies being very

00:51:15 ◼   ► aggressive about things like okay no

00:51:16 ◼   ► money down or small money down and you

00:51:18 ◼   ► can get this entire room this suite of

00:51:21 ◼   ► course when we did arrive at that point

00:51:23 ◼   ► by the mid seventies we have to really

00:51:26 ◼   ► take care of everything

00:51:27 ◼   ► so this this whole is some liquor

00:51:30 ◼   ► appalling couch that we had to replace

00:51:33 ◼   ► our old appalling couch i do remember my

00:51:35 ◼   ► mom putting a plastic cover on it that

00:51:38 ◼   ► that made it really really uncomfortable

00:51:41 ◼   ► and and really quite ugly but you have

00:51:43 ◼   ► to keep the couch nice that was just the

00:51:45 ◼   ► kind of thing that that that we did is

00:51:47 ◼   ► that our family was a cover the

00:51:48 ◼   ► furniture family it's it's it's

00:51:51 ◼   ► interesting because we definitely were

00:51:54 ◼   ► not and i would go to people's houses

00:51:56 ◼   ► that had covered the furniture

00:51:58 ◼   ► and I you know was told that it was like

00:52:01 ◼   ► my what I always assumed was that you

00:52:06 ◼   ► left the covers on the furniture until

00:52:08 ◼   ► guests came special guest and then you

00:52:10 ◼   ► took the covers off stands to reason but

00:52:12 ◼   ► no one ever took the covers off and then

00:52:14 ◼   ► when when my mom got me my mom got a

00:52:16 ◼   ► good job and moved to Alaska and I was

00:52:22 ◼   ► already living in Alaska with my dad and

00:52:24 ◼   ► all of a sudden my mom is living in

00:52:27 ◼   ► Alaska to and has a nicer house than my

00:52:30 ◼   ► dad and it was like whoa time

00:52:33 ◼   ► times have changed fortunes have

00:52:34 ◼   ► switched around and then my mom moved

00:52:39 ◼   ► again into a much nicer house in the

00:52:43 ◼   ► nice neighborhood no less and she had

00:52:46 ◼   ► leverage herself pretty highly at that

00:52:49 ◼   ► point in fig specifically to get her

00:52:52 ◼   ► dream home in it in a nice neighborhood

00:52:55 ◼   ► it was right before i was going into

00:52:57 ◼   ► high school she timed it all very

00:52:59 ◼   ► purposefully oh so that I was during the

00:53:05 ◼   ► time that I was in high school we lived

00:53:07 ◼   ► in the nice neighborhood and in a nice

00:53:12 ◼   ► house in that neighborhood so she was

00:53:15 ◼   ► fulfilling her own dream and also trying

00:53:19 ◼   ► to facilitate my path through life

00:53:22 ◼   ► did you I mean if I'm not being too much

00:53:24 ◼   ► into this to like get into a good school

00:53:28 ◼   ► well that the schools in Anchorage were

00:53:30 ◼   ► sort of all about the same if it was it

00:53:33 ◼   ► was that she didn't want me to go or

00:53:35 ◼   ► rather she perceived that if she lived

00:53:40 ◼   ► in a nice neighborhood and I went to the

00:53:41 ◼   ► and I started high school from the nice

00:53:43 ◼   ► neighborhood that i would have a social

00:53:45 ◼   ► leg up right that I wouldn't be going

00:53:48 ◼   ► home on the on the school bus to the

00:53:51 ◼   ► poor neighborhood I would be living in

00:53:53 ◼   ► the rich neighborhood with the other

00:53:55 ◼   ► with the rich kids who were going to go

00:53:56 ◼   ► to the good schools like it was a very

00:53:58 ◼   ► it was it was it was a a move that was

00:54:01 ◼   ► conscious of the social undercurrents

00:54:06 ◼   ► and and she was playing up it was a part

00:54:09 ◼   ► of her fantasy to both to have the nice

00:54:11 ◼   ► house

00:54:12 ◼   ► and to be the mother of a kid who's you

00:54:14 ◼   ► know she was the only single parent in

00:54:16 ◼   ► that whole neighborhood

00:54:17 ◼   ► Wow everybody else was you know married

00:54:21 ◼   ► with kids and they ostracized her for

00:54:24 ◼   ► being a single woman who was presumably

00:54:27 ◼   ► they're into the women all that was a

00:54:29 ◼   ► real thing yeah the women all presumed

00:54:31 ◼   ► that she was there to steal their

00:54:32 ◼   ► husbands and you know and the the

00:54:35 ◼   ► neighbor the the local husband's the

00:54:37 ◼   ► neighbor men would come by on Saturday

00:54:39 ◼   ► afternoon stand there with their rake

00:54:41 ◼   ► you know like it was standing with a

00:54:44 ◼   ► rake like how's it going over here you

00:54:45 ◼   ► need any help you know like it was it

00:54:47 ◼   ► was there was a there was weirdness

00:54:49 ◼   ► about being a single woman particularly

00:54:52 ◼   ► a single mother and I heard from a lot

00:54:54 ◼   ► of kids like that kind of the way kids

00:54:58 ◼   ► repeat the things that they here at

00:55:00 ◼   ► their dinner table just that all the

00:55:03 ◼   ► suspicion and fear about a woman living

00:55:05 ◼   ► on her own with two kids and a nice

00:55:07 ◼   ► house in the name it was like you know

00:55:09 ◼   ► my mom was was was very she's very

00:55:16 ◼   ► definitely like standing with her head

00:55:19 ◼   ► held high and her chin out like yeah

00:55:22 ◼   ► that's right i bought that I bought the

00:55:24 ◼   ► corner house on on stanford and

00:55:28 ◼   ► princeton right like I i and i must then

00:55:31 ◼   ► I'm a single mom and fuck you and of

00:55:34 ◼   ► course like any other I loved being in

00:55:38 ◼   ► the in the rich neighborhood right it

00:55:40 ◼   ► was it was although I although I learned

00:55:43 ◼   ► to hate it because rich kids are

00:55:46 ◼   ► assholes

00:55:47 ◼   ► yeah but at the time it seemed like a

00:55:49 ◼   ► real real positive it's not a one-time

00:55:51 ◼   ► thing where once you're in a bad but we

00:55:52 ◼   ► talked about at length I mean now you

00:55:54 ◼   ► need the right alligator on your shirt

00:55:55 ◼   ► oh yeah and I didn't and you know and so

00:55:57 ◼   ► she was not willing having gotten a nice

00:55:59 ◼   ► how she was not willing to put an

00:56:01 ◼   ► alligator on one of my shirts that's not

00:56:03 ◼   ► sustainable

00:56:03 ◼   ► not in a million years she still

00:56:06 ◼   ► maintained her like you know her farm

00:56:09 ◼   ► ethics she was going to repurpose the

00:56:11 ◼   ► coffee table multiple times but what she

00:56:14 ◼   ► did do was buy a set of furniture for

00:56:17 ◼   ► the living room that we were not allowed

00:56:19 ◼   ► to say

00:56:19 ◼   ► dawn and it was the first time it at

00:56:23 ◼   ► anything like that had ever happened

00:56:24 ◼   ► like all of a sudden we weren't allowed

00:56:27 ◼   ► in the living room and I was like what

00:56:30 ◼   ► am i a fucking cat I'm allowed in the

00:56:33 ◼   ► goddamn room i am the son of this house

00:56:35 ◼   ► i'm the scion of this legacy and I would

00:56:38 ◼   ► go and sit in the living room and she

00:56:39 ◼   ► would come in and say get off those

00:56:40 ◼   ► couches and everything maybe with the

00:56:44 ◼   ► spray bottle shoe and and so for several

00:56:48 ◼   ► years there after we moved into that

00:56:51 ◼   ► house we had a living room and the thing

00:56:52 ◼   ► is that the shitt the furniture she

00:56:53 ◼   ► bought was like light pink verging into

00:56:57 ◼   ► white and I wasn't what we weren't

00:57:01 ◼   ► allowed to go in there except christmas

00:57:02 ◼   ► morning and if somebody came by which

00:57:05 ◼   ► she made every attempt to prevent ever

00:57:08 ◼   ► happening right no one ever came by she

00:57:11 ◼   ► never had anybody over 240 she kept the

00:57:14 ◼   ► blinds closed and she I think she would

00:57:16 ◼   ► go in at night and stand in the doorway

00:57:18 ◼   ► of her perfect living room and it gave

00:57:20 ◼   ► her a tremendous satisfaction but she I

00:57:24 ◼   ► guess she had finally she had fun she

00:57:26 ◼   ► finally purchased a house that was big

00:57:28 ◼   ► enough that there could be a room in the

00:57:29 ◼   ► house that no one used and the American

00:57:32 ◼   ► check that's right and then she set up

00:57:34 ◼   ► this room in her perfect in a perfect

00:57:36 ◼   ► vision of what that looked like and then

00:57:39 ◼   ► she would be damned

00:57:41 ◼   ► that's it that's kind of like the

00:57:42 ◼   ► historical role of the parlor right

00:57:43 ◼   ► right

00:57:44 ◼   ► it's not keeping it live very keeping

00:57:46 ◼   ► that the rooms really just for Kennedy

00:57:47 ◼   ► or the Pope yeah exactly and and she

00:57:50 ◼   ► didn't put plastic over it but I think

00:57:52 ◼   ► she later wish she had because when i

00:57:55 ◼   ► first started drinking one of the first

00:58:00 ◼   ► arm one of maybe in the first 20 times i

00:58:05 ◼   ► drank because you know the first time I

00:58:07 ◼   ► drink I got shit-faced and then every

00:58:09 ◼   ► successive time i drank i got shit-faced

00:58:11 ◼   ► there was never there was never a time

00:58:12 ◼   ► when I had two beers not a single time

00:58:15 ◼   ► for the beginning from the very

00:58:17 ◼   ► beginning I was just how interesting

00:58:19 ◼   ► this is this alcohol is amazing how much

00:58:22 ◼   ► of this can I drink and I was just like

00:58:24 ◼   ► lotto

00:58:26 ◼   ► and so it was it it was never explained

00:58:29 ◼   ► to me and it never occurred to me that

00:58:31 ◼   ► there was another way to drink beer or

00:58:35 ◼   ► wine coolers or champagne or whatever

00:58:39 ◼   ► was handed to me except as much as you

00:58:42 ◼   ► can get like as much as you can get away

00:58:43 ◼   ► with man and then it later on somebody

00:58:48 ◼   ► suggested that we have a couple of beers

00:58:50 ◼   ► and I remember just be like the point of

00:58:53 ◼   ► that be a couple of beers with what it

00:58:56 ◼   ► what are you talking about to start

00:58:58 ◼   ► right a couple of beers but I mean but

00:59:01 ◼   ► anyway one of the time one of those

00:59:03 ◼   ► times I came home somebody drop me off

00:59:05 ◼   ► got me to the front door and ran and I

00:59:10 ◼   ► made it into the front room peed myself

00:59:13 ◼   ► took off all my clothes and then fell

00:59:19 ◼   ► asleep on her pink couch

00:59:20 ◼   ► oh no John and I woke up in the morning

00:59:23 ◼   ► to her sitting in the big chair

00:59:26 ◼   ► oh god this and it was the first time

00:59:29 ◼   ► she'd seen you drunk no she'd seen it

00:59:32 ◼   ► before but what made this moment special

00:59:38 ◼   ► was that my dad was also there my dad

00:59:41 ◼   ► who was not often invited into my mom's

00:59:44 ◼   ► house had been invited over and so there

00:59:47 ◼   ► had been no she came downstairs

00:59:49 ◼   ► obviously she wakes up at five in the

00:59:50 ◼   ► morning she came downstairs

00:59:52 ◼   ► sami Trump with my p close you know in a

00:59:56 ◼   ► kind of fire sale a path

00:59:56 ◼   ► kind of fire sale a path

01:00:00 ◼   ► into her living room me naked on the

01:00:02 ◼   ► couch and so she know what woke up at

01:00:05 ◼   ► five in the morning had time to have

01:00:08 ◼   ► breakfast herself all my father tell him

01:00:11 ◼   ► to come over and then they woke me up at

01:00:14 ◼   ► 9i think woke me up by going and then I

01:00:20 ◼   ► had to hear what was the first of many

01:00:22 ◼   ► alcoholism lectures from my two parents

01:00:27 ◼   ► combined working together as a team

01:00:29 ◼   ► it was a it was an auspicious and

01:00:33 ◼   ► inauspicious christening of those pic

01:00:36 ◼   ► couches let me say did you did she have

01:00:39 ◼   ► a way for you to make good

01:00:40 ◼   ► well everybody was much more worried

01:00:44 ◼   ► about the fact that i was recapitulating

01:00:47 ◼   ► the family curse because my older

01:00:50 ◼   ► brother and my father's father my father

01:00:54 ◼   ► himself at all had all gone down this

01:00:56 ◼   ► path and so they were I'm and I could

01:00:58 ◼   ► only imagine if you know if you're

01:01:01 ◼   ► fifteen-year-old kid I mean talk about

01:01:03 ◼   ► calling them on the phone from the fort

01:01:04 ◼   ► lauderdale airport and and checking

01:01:06 ◼   ► their starting at their facebook post if

01:01:08 ◼   ► you're fifteen-year-old kid is like not

01:01:10 ◼   ► just coming home drunk but but but you

01:01:14 ◼   ► but you know what the end game of the

01:01:17 ◼   ► stories they were super super worried

01:01:20 ◼   ► how do you feel well I feel like a I

01:01:28 ◼   ► feel like two things it never occurred

01:01:33 ◼   ► to me that I was anything but an

01:01:36 ◼   ► alcoholic from the very beginning from

01:01:41 ◼   ► the first time I had a great because my

01:01:42 ◼   ► dad was a recovering alcoholic from

01:01:44 ◼   ► before I was born

01:01:45 ◼   ► so the only time that alcohol was ever

01:01:48 ◼   ► referenced and and by that I mean all

01:01:51 ◼   ► the fucking time because growing up in

01:01:54 ◼   ► Alaska in the seventies it was like

01:01:57 ◼   ► Dodge City right everybody was shitfaced

01:02:01 ◼   ► all the time people would go out to

01:02:03 ◼   ► lunch and come back to their job running

01:02:07 ◼   ► the pipeline and be like six martinis in

01:02:11 ◼   ► and their job was to sit there and

01:02:14 ◼   ► control the the pressure of the oil

01:02:16 ◼   ► running through the pipes got and

01:02:18 ◼   ► they're just like I'm flying I got it

01:02:20 ◼   ► absolutely you know like it was a it was

01:02:22 ◼   ► a a culture of of abuse and so I'd heard

01:02:27 ◼   ► about alcohol I'd seen it I had I'd seen

01:02:31 ◼   ► it all around me and and with my dad's

01:02:34 ◼   ► kind of like critique of it which was he

01:02:38 ◼   ► never talked out of the side of his

01:02:39 ◼   ► mouth my dad always spoke right out of

01:02:42 ◼   ► the front of his mouth and we you know

01:02:44 ◼   ► but but but like bars were the only

01:02:46 ◼   ► place that you could socialize in Alaska

01:02:48 ◼   ► so we would go into bars and sit there

01:02:49 ◼   ► and be just people like getting in

01:02:51 ◼   ► gunfights and my dad would be a little

01:02:55 ◼   ► walking over to them and like you ever

01:02:57 ◼   ► thought about going to Alcoholics

01:02:58 ◼   ► Anonymous so so the first time I ever

01:03:03 ◼   ► had a drink it I knew I was an alcoholic

01:03:06 ◼   ► it never occurred to me that I wasn't

01:03:07 ◼   ► and my performance as a young drinker

01:03:11 ◼   ► reinforced than I was and so on my

01:03:14 ◼   ► parents woke me up that morning we're

01:03:16 ◼   ► like you are exhibiting the signs of

01:03:17 ◼   ► being an alcoholic

01:03:19 ◼   ► it's a very bad road to be on and you

01:03:22 ◼   ► need to really take a hard look at it I

01:03:25 ◼   ► was like asked and answered

01:03:27 ◼   ► I've already taken a hard look at it I'm

01:03:29 ◼   ► an alcoholic what's next where do I you

01:03:31 ◼   ► know like where do I sign up for the

01:03:33 ◼   ► alcoholic a adventure and I don't think

01:03:38 ◼   ► anybody I don't think they have the I

01:03:40 ◼   ► don't think they anticipated that and I

01:03:43 ◼   ► and i'm not sure that i actually

01:03:45 ◼   ► communicated that I think I probably did

01:03:49 ◼   ► was look chastened and a and sort of

01:03:53 ◼   ► nodded and SAT there you know head

01:03:55 ◼   ► spinning it was like I'm sorry i'll try

01:03:57 ◼   ► not to do it again and I I basically

01:03:59 ◼   ► said I'm sorry i'll try not to do it

01:04:01 ◼   ► again for 10 or 12 more years and no one

01:04:07 ◼   ► in my life ever realized that I knew I

01:04:10 ◼   ► was a fucking alcoholic and I was trying

01:04:13 ◼   ► to plumb the depths of that are like I

01:04:16 ◼   ► was trying to find what

01:04:18 ◼   ► I knew I knew about the concept of a

01:04:19 ◼   ► bottom I was like let's see if i can

01:04:21 ◼   ► find mine really at 15

01:04:24 ◼   ► yeah because because there's you know

01:04:28 ◼   ► there's that other side of never knew I

01:04:30 ◼   ► never knew that it was in your case that

01:04:34 ◼   ► it that it was really like 0-200 kind of

01:04:38 ◼   ► thing I figured it was you know typical

01:04:40 ◼   ► kind of high school maybe escalating

01:04:42 ◼   ► little more being on the weekends but

01:04:44 ◼   ► from the from the beginning for you it

01:04:45 ◼   ► was all or nothing

01:04:47 ◼   ► yeah and-and-and it was it was always

01:04:51 ◼   ► crazy to me I remember the first time I

01:04:53 ◼   ► was sitting in a meeting and listening

01:04:56 ◼   ► to everybody's going around and gets to

01:04:58 ◼   ► this guy he's like you know I don't know

01:05:00 ◼   ► why I'm here

01:05:01 ◼   ► he's probably 30 i don't know why I'm

01:05:05 ◼   ► here

01:05:06 ◼   ► I mean oh I know why I'm here because

01:05:10 ◼   ► the cops are making me come here because

01:05:12 ◼   ► I got five duis and the whole the whole

01:05:17 ◼   ► meeting just breaks up everybody's

01:05:20 ◼   ► laughing and the guys like what are you

01:05:21 ◼   ► fucking laughing about

01:05:23 ◼   ► and somebody's like dude if you got five

01:05:25 ◼   ► duis and sometimes they caught him

01:05:28 ◼   ► those are the times we caught it right

01:05:29 ◼   ► five prosecuted duis where they've taken

01:05:33 ◼   ► your license right um you have a

01:05:36 ◼   ► drinking problem and the guys like what

01:05:38 ◼   ► are you even talking about I just go

01:05:40 ◼   ► drink like a normal person and it was

01:05:43 ◼   ► this it was this like dawning

01:05:45 ◼   ► realization you saw it on his face as

01:05:48 ◼   ► people are like very gently kind of any

01:05:51 ◼   ► you know most a meeting you there is not

01:05:53 ◼   ► crosstalk but this guy was inviting it

01:05:55 ◼   ► was like let's talk some other people

01:05:58 ◼   ► comment about comment on what you're

01:05:59 ◼   ► saying right and that's generally

01:06:00 ◼   ► frowned on it's not part of the culture

01:06:02 ◼   ► right he just you say your piece and

01:06:04 ◼   ► then the next person says their piece

01:06:06 ◼   ► and even if the next person like

01:06:07 ◼   ► obliquely refers to what you just said

01:06:09 ◼   ► it's American is crosstalk also where

01:06:12 ◼   ► people could potentially say that sounds

01:06:15 ◼   ► like bullshit you really supposed to do

01:06:18 ◼   ► that we're not supposed to do that

01:06:19 ◼   ► okay if the person is saying bullshit

01:06:21 ◼   ► the presumption is that if they stick

01:06:24 ◼   ► around in a meetings long enough there

01:06:26 ◼   ► one day going to be like holy shit

01:06:28 ◼   ► I have been full of shit all this time

01:06:29 ◼   ► and that's because everybody else is

01:06:32 ◼   ► probably tried the same route he hasn't

01:06:34 ◼   ► worked there's nothing new in those

01:06:35 ◼   ► meetings right so the end and what how

01:06:37 ◼   ► often happens is the next person to talk

01:06:38 ◼   ► or somewhere down the road some old old

01:06:42 ◼   ► timer will be like will basically talk

01:06:44 ◼   ► about themselves and say to the effect

01:06:48 ◼   ► something like I remember when I was

01:06:51 ◼   ► full of shit and it was a really hard

01:06:55 ◼   ► experience when I realized it because

01:06:58 ◼   ► I'd been in a 44 years before I realized

01:07:01 ◼   ► that everything that had come out of my

01:07:03 ◼   ► mouth was bullshit and everybody in the

01:07:05 ◼   ► room nods and you just hope that you

01:07:10 ◼   ► know that the person that it needs to

01:07:13 ◼   ► hear that can hear it but of course they

01:07:15 ◼   ► can't right that's what's amazing about

01:07:17 ◼   ► those meetings is that everybody just

01:07:19 ◼   ► says what's on their mind and you just

01:07:21 ◼   ► go and sometimes somebody will open

01:07:23 ◼   ► their mouth the first word they that

01:07:25 ◼   ► comes out of Matthew just like this guy

01:07:26 ◼   ► is going to give us 15 minutes of the

01:07:29 ◼   ► worst self-justifying bullshit and

01:07:32 ◼   ► there's nothing we can do its part of

01:07:34 ◼   ► the meeting we didn't see anything you

01:07:35 ◼   ► have after a few months or years of that

01:07:37 ◼   ► they're there must be certain kinds of

01:07:40 ◼   ► types like us you must see a certain

01:07:43 ◼   ► kind of like well i can tell that person

01:07:44 ◼   ► in this particular phase right now

01:07:46 ◼   ► yeah it's the it's the five stages of

01:07:48 ◼   ► grief or whatever it's the same same

01:07:50 ◼   ► type of thing and you just at but

01:07:51 ◼   ► somebody might go there for a really

01:07:52 ◼   ► long time

01:07:53 ◼   ► not really want to be there and it isn't

01:07:56 ◼   ► like everybody gets there the first week

01:07:58 ◼   ► they break down and go out you know I'm

01:08:00 ◼   ► i see the light now

01:08:02 ◼   ► no you can go to a four years i'm not

01:08:04 ◼   ► and not do it must be so weird have so

01:08:07 ◼   ► many people in different states of I

01:08:10 ◼   ► mean you know me mr on it seems like

01:08:12 ◼   ► there must be people incredibly

01:08:13 ◼   ► different phases of all sorts of aspects

01:08:15 ◼   ► of that process it must be very weird

01:08:17 ◼   ► it's really weird

01:08:18 ◼   ► particularly since one of the dominating

01:08:20 ◼   ► for one of the dominant characteristics

01:08:22 ◼   ► of alcoholics is that they want to tell

01:08:23 ◼   ► everybody how to do it so that's baked

01:08:27 ◼   ► into the concept right everybody in the

01:08:30 ◼   ► room is sitting there quietly and in

01:08:34 ◼   ► their own minds saying off

01:08:36 ◼   ► fuck if I could just stand up right now

01:08:40 ◼   ► and explain what why this person is

01:08:43 ◼   ► doing it wrong and matter and so

01:08:44 ◼   ► everybody I mean because that is an

01:08:46 ◼   ► alcoholic trait 2a 2b the inner to be

01:08:50 ◼   ► the expert and so its roots of I mean

01:08:53 ◼   ► that's what makes it that's why I'm a

01:08:55 ◼   ► supporter of that program it is a

01:08:56 ◼   ► fascinating like multifaceted experiment

01:09:02 ◼   ► in psychologist seems like you might

01:09:04 ◼   ► have to find out like completely unknown

01:09:07 ◼   ► and untapped levels new levels of

01:09:09 ◼   ► humility for that to be something you

01:09:11 ◼   ► stick with in progressive it seems like

01:09:14 ◼   ► you've gotta constantly find a new level

01:09:15 ◼   ► of humility

01:09:16 ◼   ► it's the core it's the core is it that's

01:09:18 ◼   ► why it works right it's the because the

01:09:20 ◼   ► people that manage to get there are

01:09:25 ◼   ► basically experiencing the toughest the

01:09:32 ◼   ► toughest Reuters n which is being

01:09:35 ◼   ► confronted every day with people who are

01:09:38 ◼   ► exhibiting all the things about yourself

01:09:40 ◼   ► that you hate the most

01:09:41 ◼   ► and not being able not not being able to

01:09:45 ◼   ► do anything except listen you know every

01:09:49 ◼   ► every single person in a MTG wants to

01:09:51 ◼   ► take it over and be the chief different

01:09:53 ◼   ► and no one can say somewhere they are

01:09:55 ◼   ► right then yeah you know again it's

01:09:57 ◼   ► based on and there's somebody that's got

01:09:59 ◼   ► 30 years of sobriety there's somebody

01:10:00 ◼   ► because 40 years of sobriety and I you

01:10:05 ◼   ► know and there's somebody that's got 60

01:10:07 ◼   ► days of sobriety and they want to take

01:10:09 ◼   ► the meeting over and tell everybody how

01:10:10 ◼   ► to do it and it's just like yeah

01:10:12 ◼   ► whatever they would they call that phase

01:10:15 ◼   ► with the cloud pink cloud or something

01:10:19 ◼   ► like that is in their face like when you

01:10:21 ◼   ► first stop drinking and you start to

01:10:25 ◼   ► feel a lot better and like you get this

01:10:27 ◼   ► I i know that there's a lot of

01:10:29 ◼   ► nomenclature be careful about I want to

01:10:31 ◼   ► abuse it but was there something

01:10:32 ◼   ► everybody goes through when you first

01:10:33 ◼   ► get off it and then you start to feel

01:10:35 ◼   ► like you're feeling better and you're

01:10:37 ◼   ► feeling you know sober and then

01:10:39 ◼   ► everybody goes through this phase of the

01:10:40 ◼   ► tank haha now I've got it

01:10:42 ◼   ► yeah right and for me it happened about

01:10:45 ◼   ► between three and six months we're just

01:10:48 ◼   ► like at six months you feel like fuck I

01:10:51 ◼   ► had you been drinking for six months or

01:10:54 ◼   ► six months in program uh I mean there

01:10:57 ◼   ► were multiple times that I quit drinking

01:10:58 ◼   ► for six months right but I never but the

01:11:02 ◼   ► final time when I was really going to

01:11:05 ◼   ► Alcoholics Anonymous all the time and

01:11:07 ◼   ► was you know and and was trying to be

01:11:11 ◼   ► sober instead of just like being forced

01:11:14 ◼   ► to be sober or experimenting with being

01:11:17 ◼   ► sober but I was like okay I'm gonna ice

01:11:20 ◼   ► i have i have been to the edge I've

01:11:22 ◼   ► stood and looked down I lost a lot of

01:11:24 ◼   ► friends and so I hey I'm like I'm in

01:11:30 ◼   ► this to win this or at least I'm trying

01:11:31 ◼   ► to make it through and at six months I

01:11:33 ◼   ► was just like I'm I feel amazing

01:11:36 ◼   ► I've got this thing on lock and then

01:11:38 ◼   ► invariably right you come to the next

01:11:42 ◼   ► turtle which is that it's not a thing

01:11:44 ◼   ► you can ever really have unlock you have

01:11:46 ◼   ► to just do whatever you know everything

01:11:50 ◼   ► even if you're not drinking again he

01:11:52 ◼   ► still doesn't mean it seems like there's

01:11:54 ◼   ► also obviously like backsliding or

01:11:55 ◼   ► whatever but then there's that sense

01:11:58 ◼   ► that it's not uncommon to have a sense

01:12:00 ◼   ► to feel like you've turned the corner

01:12:01 ◼   ► there's no way you could go back at this

01:12:03 ◼   ► point that's a common thing right very

01:12:05 ◼   ► common and the and the next thing that

01:12:07 ◼   ► comes out of your mouth is and since

01:12:09 ◼   ► it's impossible but I could ever go back

01:12:11 ◼   ► there's no reason why I shouldn't have

01:12:12 ◼   ► one drink one drink camp because it's

01:12:14 ◼   ► fuckin new years eve or whatever and

01:12:16 ◼   ► there's no way there's no way I'm going

01:12:18 ◼   ► to ever be an alcoholic again

01:12:20 ◼   ► so what's the harm in having one little

01:12:24 ◼   ► tiny drink I that I've never thought

01:12:28 ◼   ► about that the way here described such a

01:12:31 ◼   ► fascinating organization to me and the

01:12:34 ◼   ► work that they do is you know so

01:12:35 ◼   ► incredible but so weird

01:12:37 ◼   ► yeah because now and the reason i'm

01:12:39 ◼   ► thinking of this is it's like you think

01:12:41 ◼   ► about nothing this is not much change

01:12:43 ◼   ► topic but if you're trying to like help

01:12:45 ◼   ► somebody who you know is really fucking

01:12:47 ◼   ► wrong and really stupid and the example

01:12:49 ◼   ► here being like look at me or you and

01:12:51 ◼   ► we're teenagers full stop right and

01:12:53 ◼   ► there's there's it's a lot like

01:12:56 ◼   ► jamac it because you feel like you

01:12:59 ◼   ► first of all you know you better than

01:13:01 ◼   ► anybody obviously you know your

01:13:04 ◼   ► you-know-what you struggled with you

01:13:06 ◼   ► know what you've gotten through and like

01:13:08 ◼   ► and who is more fucking dangerous than

01:13:10 ◼   ► like a 15 year old boy who thinks he's

01:13:12 ◼   ► figured it out for now yeah and and you

01:13:14 ◼   ► know there's on the one hand there's

01:13:16 ◼   ► part of me that has an old guy look at

01:13:17 ◼   ► that I think I remember being like that

01:13:19 ◼   ► and still like that in many ways it's

01:13:21 ◼   ► just the irony of course we always feel

01:13:22 ◼   ► like we've got to figure it out but like

01:13:24 ◼   ► it's so impossible sometimes to even

01:13:27 ◼   ► know what level to try and help somebody

01:13:28 ◼   ► at and if they even want to be helped

01:13:31 ◼   ► like the amount and i say here why a

01:13:33 ◼   ► teenager because there's no way for a

01:13:35 ◼   ► teenager even know like how fucked up

01:13:37 ◼   ► they are that their brain is not done

01:13:39 ◼   ► you know being formed yet there's the

01:13:41 ◼   ► big middle part of their brain that's

01:13:42 ◼   ► still just a bunch of mush taking crazy

01:13:44 ◼   ► risks they have you know what I mean

01:13:45 ◼   ► they're not getting enough sleep there's

01:13:47 ◼   ► all kinds of things that are making you

01:13:48 ◼   ► a teenager and who are biologically

01:13:52 ◼   ► incapable of being able to see these

01:13:54 ◼   ► things that everybody else in the world

01:13:55 ◼   ► can see like you know why why do you

01:13:57 ◼   ► keep like hanging out with this group of

01:14:00 ◼   ► people they're obviously not good for

01:14:02 ◼   ► your why do you keep doing this

01:14:04 ◼   ► self-destructive thing or why do you why

01:14:06 ◼   ► are you being so negative about this

01:14:07 ◼   ► because there's all these kinds of

01:14:08 ◼   ► things but the recent survey is it

01:14:09 ◼   ► sounds like you know an 18 year old me

01:14:12 ◼   ► would want to counsel fifteen-year-old

01:14:14 ◼   ► me a certain way because he thinks he's

01:14:16 ◼   ► got to figure it out right because if

01:14:17 ◼   ► you're always super-smart haha i can

01:14:19 ◼   ► help those kids 20 22 year-old male will

01:14:21 ◼   ► Jesus Christ we like it to 27 because

01:14:24 ◼   ► that's what I'm really fucking smart

01:14:25 ◼   ► I knew everything when I was 27 I could

01:14:27 ◼   ► certainly council this poor bastard to

01:14:29 ◼   ► be but you know it's really it's so

01:14:31 ◼   ► interesting to think about everybody in

01:14:32 ◼   ► the group is helping themselves and

01:14:34 ◼   ► helping others partly when they threw

01:14:36 ◼   ► the track of kids they're always

01:14:37 ◼   ► stepping back onto is going like

01:14:39 ◼   ► humility and like we've all got shit to

01:14:42 ◼   ► learn and there's all things were even

01:14:44 ◼   ► me who's been this program for 40 years

01:14:46 ◼   ► or whatever they're still support to

01:14:48 ◼   ► this adventure that I haven't seen yet

01:14:49 ◼   ► and i still have a lot to learn and

01:14:51 ◼   ► that's ultimately what gives me the

01:14:52 ◼   ► humility to keep showing up and helping

01:14:54 ◼   ► people the best I can without thinking

01:14:56 ◼   ► anybody's got the fucking answer right

01:14:58 ◼   ► music I mean I find it fascinating as an

01:15:01 ◼   ► approach nowhere else in the world you

01:15:03 ◼   ► actually see that kind of an approach to

01:15:05 ◼   ► improvement of everybody going like look

01:15:07 ◼   ► I'm only good at this

01:15:09 ◼   ► I'm not trying to be the expert at this

01:15:10 ◼   ► and that is why it is you

01:15:12 ◼   ► it's a unique a thought experiment in

01:15:16 ◼   ► the history of humankind right i mean I

01:15:19 ◼   ► that's why AAA has been so bastardized

01:15:22 ◼   ► and the recovery movements have swept

01:15:24 ◼   ► Lincoln eighties and nineties when it

01:15:26 ◼   ► will end and even now I mean there are

01:15:28 ◼   ► people right now who are paying five

01:15:31 ◼   ► thousand dollars a week to be in an AAA

01:15:33 ◼   ► style a rehab where ultimately it isn't

01:15:39 ◼   ► a a style because if you have someone in

01:15:42 ◼   ► charge and if you have bars on the

01:15:45 ◼   ► windows or if you have any kind of

01:15:48 ◼   ► coercion then it's not a and and the

01:15:53 ◼   ► courts routinely send people to

01:15:57 ◼   ► Alcoholics Anonymous as part of her

01:15:58 ◼   ► punishment and those people are there

01:16:00 ◼   ► and they put their little you know what

01:16:02 ◼   ► they're a basket goes around the room

01:16:04 ◼   ► and everybody put a dollar in just to

01:16:09 ◼   ► pay for coffee

01:16:10 ◼   ► who but a basket goes around the room

01:16:13 ◼   ► and people put in their little green and

01:16:14 ◼   ► blue and yellow slips that they get from

01:16:17 ◼   ► the court right so that somebody at the

01:16:20 ◼   ► a meeting signs off on it and they can

01:16:21 ◼   ► take it back to their parole officer and

01:16:23 ◼   ► say yeah went to a but as soon as that

01:16:25 ◼   ► element is there i don't think it's a

01:16:28 ◼   ► banana just treating it like the way in

01:16:30 ◼   ► an old movie you would treat the army or

01:16:33 ◼   ► church

01:16:34 ◼   ► yeah right where you say well you're

01:16:35 ◼   ► going to here's the thing you won't i

01:16:37 ◼   ► won't find you guilty of this if you go

01:16:38 ◼   ► join the army or I won't find you guilty

01:16:40 ◼   ► of this if you start getting some church

01:16:42 ◼   ► in you write that the idea that there is

01:16:44 ◼   ► something that needs to be reformed

01:16:45 ◼   ► about you that whether you're willing or

01:16:48 ◼   ► not

01:16:48 ◼   ► proximity to this group and their

01:16:50 ◼   ► practices will be something that can't

01:16:52 ◼   ► help but make you better than you are

01:16:54 ◼   ► right now sorry bastard

01:16:56 ◼   ► it sounds like with a there's that's a

01:16:57 ◼   ► completely inaccurate assumption to make

01:16:59 ◼   ► well i don't know i mean it is entirely

01:17:01 ◼   ► possible that somebody sits in a forced

01:17:04 ◼   ► a a situation for six months and goes at

01:17:08 ◼   ► you know somewhere along the line goes

01:17:09 ◼   ► huh

01:17:10 ◼   ► this actually is getting through to me

01:17:12 ◼   ► but like two things when when you're

01:17:17 ◼   ► about six months in getting sober at

01:17:20 ◼   ► least in my experience I remember having

01:17:22 ◼   ► the field

01:17:22 ◼   ► but oh my god I'm so lucky because I

01:17:26 ◼   ► wish everybody in the world had to hit

01:17:29 ◼   ► this moment where they needed to be in a

01:17:35 ◼   ► because it's such a it's such a

01:17:38 ◼   ► fascinating and and you know humbling

01:17:43 ◼   ► experience and I'm i have an insight now

01:17:46 ◼   ► that I couldn't have had otherwise but I

01:17:48 ◼   ► wish everybody shared it's like the

01:17:52 ◼   ► first time you take LSD and you're like

01:17:53 ◼   ► well I wish everybody in the world would

01:17:54 ◼   ► take LSD one time and going to LA and

01:17:57 ◼   ► going 2a is is very similar it's like

01:17:59 ◼   ► fuck if everybody you know they're there

01:18:03 ◼   ► are a lot of people out there laboring

01:18:04 ◼   ► along and this knowledge is so useful

01:18:10 ◼   ► mhm um that I wish everybody shared it

01:18:14 ◼   ► but but the fundamental thing about a

01:18:16 ◼   ► guy that's been sober for 40 years who

01:18:19 ◼   ► keeps going 2a is that he keeps learning

01:18:22 ◼   ► things about himself from listening to

01:18:26 ◼   ► people who are you have been sober for

01:18:27 ◼   ► 60 days

01:18:29 ◼   ► wow wow wow that is not something you

01:18:34 ◼   ► can duplicate it's not something you can

01:18:36 ◼   ► package and put a price on and and and

01:18:43 ◼   ► ultimately the reason that he is there

01:18:46 ◼   ► and subjecting himself to that which is

01:18:49 ◼   ► uncomfortable and which is like you know

01:18:52 ◼   ► listen to somebody has been sober for 60

01:18:54 ◼   ► days talk about how much they know if

01:18:57 ◼   ► you've been sober for two years is just

01:18:59 ◼   ► like here you just look so bad and yet

01:19:03 ◼   ► you're there because you want to not

01:19:06 ◼   ► because you want to what whatever that

01:19:09 ◼   ► is and so last year I get a phone call

01:19:14 ◼   ► from some manager

01:19:17 ◼   ► and there and this happens this happens

01:19:20 ◼   ► periodically manager says I know that

01:19:23 ◼   ► you are sober and I go yeah and they say

01:19:27 ◼   ► well I've got a one of my artists is

01:19:31 ◼   ► struggling and I'd like you to talk to

01:19:34 ◼   ► them if you would and i go of course and

01:19:38 ◼   ► I get on the phone and in this

01:19:40 ◼   ► particular case it's a it's an artist

01:19:43 ◼   ► that never met but whose you know who

01:19:46 ◼   ► was a big rock star but younger than me

01:19:49 ◼   ► and getting in a lot of troubles drunken

01:19:53 ◼   ► and and so forth and he's like yeah I

01:19:58 ◼   ► manager soon as she call you

01:20:00 ◼   ► you know I'm like what do you want to

01:20:02 ◼   ► stop drinking and he's like well i mean

01:20:04 ◼   ► i keep getting it you know i'm screwed

01:20:06 ◼   ► up my life I'm like that doesn't mean

01:20:07 ◼   ► you want to stop drinking right he's

01:20:10 ◼   ► like well I mean you know I if I don't

01:20:13 ◼   ► do something I'm gonna go ruin my career

01:20:15 ◼   ► and I'm like that doesn't mean you want

01:20:17 ◼   ► to stop drinking look people fucking

01:20:18 ◼   ► ruin their families destroy their kids

01:20:22 ◼   ► burn their house down like do you want

01:20:26 ◼   ► to stop drinking and we talked six seven

01:20:30 ◼   ► eight times late at night most of the

01:20:33 ◼   ► time he was fucked up man

01:20:35 ◼   ► and every time he wants to argue with me

01:20:38 ◼   ► you know he's like well Jim Morrison is

01:20:41 ◼   ► my hero and so's Bukowski and so's

01:20:45 ◼   ► Hemingway he was looking to find a way

01:20:47 ◼   ► to reframe the conversation while you

01:20:49 ◼   ► are consistently asking exactly the same

01:20:52 ◼   ► question exactly the same way

01:20:53 ◼   ► yeah and I was just like well yeah Jim

01:20:55 ◼   ► Morrison and Hemingway and Bukowski um

01:20:58 ◼   ► what about you what do you want to stop

01:21:00 ◼   ► drinking or do not like if you want to

01:21:03 ◼   ► die like Bukowski go for it why are you

01:21:08 ◼   ► calling me and he you know and he's a

01:21:12 ◼   ► guy who had who everybody in his life is

01:21:15 ◼   ► like ohmygod ohmygod ohmygod you've

01:21:17 ◼   ► gotta stop drinking you've gotta stop

01:21:18 ◼   ► drinking

01:21:19 ◼   ► and he you know they put him in touch

01:21:22 ◼   ► with me and I'm like I don't listen I

01:21:23 ◼   ► don't give a fuck if you stop drinking

01:21:25 ◼   ► is like he's used to be in the beautiful

01:21:26 ◼   ► loser

01:21:27 ◼   ► yeah he's the Beautiful Losers like move

01:21:28 ◼   ► fucking Bukowski band and I'm like a

01:21:31 ◼   ► Bukowski yeah right

01:21:33 ◼   ► makowsky right Hemingway right uh do you

01:21:38 ◼   ► want to stop drinking or do you not if

01:21:39 ◼   ► you do then I'll i got some

01:21:41 ◼   ► recommendations and i'll talk to you on

01:21:43 ◼   ► the phone as much as you want if you

01:21:46 ◼   ► don't and you want to talk to me on the

01:21:49 ◼   ► phone about it i'm happy to talk to you

01:21:51 ◼   ► on the phone about it but I'm I'm not

01:21:54 ◼   ► gonna argue with you about how Jim

01:21:57 ◼   ► Morrison is your role model

01:21:59 ◼   ► I you know like go for it like it

01:22:03 ◼   ► seriously if you want to drink and ruin

01:22:06 ◼   ► your life

01:22:06 ◼   ► it is totally beautiful it's like