Roderick on the Line

00:00:00 ◼   ► this episode of rock on the line is [TS]

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00:00:24 ◼   ► [Music] [TS]

00:00:29 ◼   ► hello hi John hi Merlin has gone well [TS]

00:00:36 ◼   ► I'm finding my way back to you Merlin I [TS]

00:00:44 ◼   ► know the frankie valli version of that [TS]

00:00:46 ◼   ► best mhm it inside like cover right [TS]

00:00:49 ◼   ► I like the way as you started to hum it [TS]

00:00:51 ◼   ► its you started humming and then sort of [TS]

00:00:53 ◼   ► the trumpets came in and then we're kind [TS]

00:00:55 ◼   ► of doing a little bit of marching band [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► version of it [TS]

00:00:57 ◼   ► mmm tusk don't get to do 250 to do i'm [TS]

00:01:10 ◼   ► intrigued by what marching bands [TS]

00:01:12 ◼   ► besides you to play I you know it's fun [TS]

00:01:14 ◼   ► to get to have fun with that they do it [TS]

00:01:17 ◼   ► seems like that is one of the that's [TS]

00:01:19 ◼   ► like the unifying characteristic of all [TS]

00:01:20 ◼   ► marching bands isn't it fun is it is fun [TS]

00:01:23 ◼   ► like in stage band you know we played [TS]

00:01:26 ◼   ► standards and we played kind of like [TS]

00:01:30 ◼   ► light fusion but mostly I was it was we [TS]

00:01:34 ◼   ► did a terrible version of Night Train [TS]

00:01:36 ◼   ► like awful version light rain [TS]

00:01:38 ◼   ► oh I was uh it was pretty abysmal mean [TS]

00:01:41 ◼   ► I'm own and my dream that someone Joey [TS]

00:01:44 ◼   ► what is that I don't think that was the [TS]

00:01:46 ◼   ► bird house the 1i train now one of the [TS]

00:01:50 ◼   ► nice things about marching bands you get [TS]

00:01:52 ◼   ► that can detect that like reverb ease [TS]

00:01:56 ◼   ► snares I love 3i love all the drums all [TS]

00:02:00 ◼   ► the great drums i love the glockenspiel [TS]

00:02:01 ◼   ► I like when I we live kinda near high [TS]

00:02:03 ◼   ► school and I love hearing that it still [TS]

00:02:06 ◼   ► sounds so great [TS]

00:02:07 ◼   ► Bingbing i have a you know uh my good [TS]

00:02:10 ◼   ► good friend Maria was the clock and [TS]

00:02:13 ◼   ► Peele player in the marching band i'm [TS]

00:02:14 ◼   ► pretty sure [TS]

00:02:15 ◼   ► Brady's bits my mother played [TS]

00:02:16 ◼   ► glockenspiel around our i think a jam by [TS]

00:02:22 ◼   ► going around again I was thinking about [TS]

00:02:27 ◼   ► reverb the other day as you do and how [TS]

00:02:30 ◼   ► thinking about I was thinking about how [TS]

00:02:33 ◼   ► contemporary pop music almost all has [TS]

00:02:37 ◼   ► this massive stadium reverb on [TS]

00:02:40 ◼   ► everything we noticed this yeah i think [TS]

00:02:43 ◼   ► i think i know what you mean especially [TS]

00:02:44 ◼   ► the kind of like and again I will at [TS]

00:02:46 ◼   ► this point just see myself out I don't [TS]

00:02:47 ◼   ► know the name is a lot of bands but it's [TS]

00:02:49 ◼   ► a certain kind of smooth [TS]

00:02:51 ◼   ► middle-of-the-road emo ish kind of thing [TS]

00:02:55 ◼   ► then it is very bombastic very big no no [TS]

00:02:59 ◼   ► I mean like I think I know what you're [TS]

00:03:00 ◼   ► talking about though there's a i mean i [TS]

00:03:02 ◼   ► don't know maybe I think I know like [TS]

00:03:04 ◼   ► it's just sounds big big big and of [TS]

00:03:05 ◼   ► course be extinguished all the way up [TS]

00:03:07 ◼   ► all the levels all the way up [TS]

00:03:09 ◼   ► yeah it was thinking about in terms of [TS]

00:03:11 ◼   ► of the fact that like songwriting now [TS]

00:03:16 ◼   ► for the most part like where we've [TS]

00:03:19 ◼   ► talked about this before where you know [TS]

00:03:20 ◼   ► we're like yellow has great songwriting [TS]

00:03:23 ◼   ► but also you can't divorce the [TS]

00:03:24 ◼   ► songwriting from the production right i [TS]

00:03:27 ◼   ► mean this is the think somebody asked me [TS]

00:03:28 ◼   ► the other day like what do you think of [TS]

00:03:30 ◼   ► Donovan I was like well you know those [TS]

00:03:33 ◼   ► great Donovan singles like the [TS]

00:03:35 ◼   ► production of them is as important as [TS]

00:03:37 ◼   ► the as the song itself right like I [TS]

00:03:41 ◼   ► hurdy gurdy man is a sound as much as it [TS]

00:03:44 ◼   ► is a song [TS]

00:03:46 ◼   ► yeah they got a kind of spooky feeling [TS]

00:03:50 ◼   ► to houki and groove Ian like you know a [TS]

00:03:54 ◼   ► stony droney but but in a way that if [TS]

00:03:59 ◼   ► you do if you take any of those great [TS]

00:04:00 ◼   ► cat stevens singles which are great [TS]

00:04:02 ◼   ► sounding but then you could also just as [TS]

00:04:05 ◼   ► we've seen innumerable times you could [TS]

00:04:07 ◼   ► play them with a hat with your baseball [TS]

00:04:09 ◼   ► hat on the ground in front of a sports [TS]

00:04:11 ◼   ► stadium on a four string acoustic guitar [TS]

00:04:14 ◼   ► and the song still translates who wears [TS]

00:04:17 ◼   ► hurdy gurdy man something would be [TS]

00:04:18 ◼   ► something would be lost to cover it [TS]

00:04:21 ◼   ► because the tone anyway so as I think [TS]

00:04:24 ◼   ► about contemporary pop music and listen [TS]

00:04:26 ◼   ► to the song writing and I just AM like [TS]

00:04:28 ◼   ► that i don't even hear the song really [TS]

00:04:30 ◼   ► i'm not sure how you would even cover [TS]

00:04:32 ◼   ► this song because the song is so much [TS]

00:04:35 ◼   ► less important now than the sound and [TS]

00:04:38 ◼   ► all these big big big radio hits now are [TS]

00:04:41 ◼   ► just full of this epic sounding swelling [TS]

00:04:45 ◼   ► chanting big drums lots of like hey and [TS]

00:04:49 ◼   ► stuff you know like really and if i were [TS]

00:04:52 ◼   ► a young person and this was my contempt [TS]

00:04:54 ◼   ► very music i would really be under the [TS]

00:04:57 ◼   ► impression that my emotions were on a [TS]

00:05:00 ◼   ► you know my emotions were very important [TS]

00:05:03 ◼   ► you know what I mean right yeah yeah [TS]

00:05:06 ◼   ► yeah there's there's no there's no sense [TS]

00:05:08 ◼   ► of like the way the motown a lot of [TS]

00:05:10 ◼   ► ambiguity to a lot of it right and and [TS]

00:05:13 ◼   ► it's not personal right it doesn't feel [TS]

00:05:15 ◼   ► like all this song is about me and my [TS]

00:05:17 ◼   ► you know and my broken hardness and my [TS]

00:05:19 ◼   ► god it's just me and the singer I'm [TS]

00:05:22 ◼   ► listening in this to this radio that's [TS]

00:05:24 ◼   ► I'm coming in on on on on pirate radio [TS]

00:05:27 ◼   ► from Mexico and you know and now it just [TS]

00:05:29 ◼   ► feels like a like every song is so epic [TS]

00:05:34 ◼   ► and the and so as a as a kid you'd be [TS]

00:05:37 ◼   ► listening to this music you're like [TS]

00:05:38 ◼   ► that's my tune and so it's a very [TS]

00:05:42 ◼   ► important song and I must be a very [TS]

00:05:44 ◼   ► important person [TS]

00:05:45 ◼   ► yeah it's a knife and I and I and I [TS]

00:05:48 ◼   ► attributed to the to the use of this the [TS]

00:05:50 ◼   ► huge reverb on everything this like hey [TS]

00:05:54 ◼   ► and you just feel like wow that's just [TS]

00:05:57 ◼   ► echoing off the back of the stadium [TS]

00:05:59 ◼   ► I think of it i think i think i know [TS]

00:06:00 ◼   ► what you mean and but the nearest [TS]

00:06:02 ◼   ► analogy from when I was younger I would [TS]

00:06:05 ◼   ► probably be disco where I mean you know [TS]

00:06:07 ◼   ► I take a song like KC and the Sunshine [TS]

00:06:10 ◼   ► Band like they had some really good [TS]

00:06:12 ◼   ► disco like party songs but they were [TS]

00:06:15 ◼   ► kind of just a groove a lot of the time [TS]

00:06:17 ◼   ► you and really was all about the [TS]

00:06:19 ◼   ► production and you know getting the the [TS]

00:06:21 ◼   ► drums and that all the percussion and [TS]

00:06:24 ◼   ► all of the base you know way high and [TS]

00:06:27 ◼   ► something may be seen out to be so it [TS]

00:06:29 ◼   ► sounds good in a club but I think that's [TS]

00:06:31 ◼   ► it's similar in that way where the way [TS]

00:06:34 ◼   ► it sounds is a huge part of like what [TS]

00:06:37 ◼   ► the song is right the way the way it [TS]

00:06:39 ◼   ► sounds is the song but like the disco [TS]

00:06:41 ◼   ► stuff the biggest like the the biggest [TS]

00:06:46 ◼   ► that in the biggest space that intended [TS]

00:06:49 ◼   ► to convey was a club right like you're [TS]

00:06:52 ◼   ► listening that stuff and you're like [TS]

00:06:53 ◼   ► yeah I'm feeling the base and i'm on the [TS]

00:06:54 ◼   ► dance floor and i'm in a club and it's [TS]

00:06:56 ◼   ► Saturday night that was the biggest that [TS]

00:07:00 ◼   ► was as big as the space would be and so [TS]

00:07:02 ◼   ► even still it could contain like the [TS]

00:07:05 ◼   ► person i like is here [TS]

00:07:07 ◼   ► dancing with someone else you know there [TS]

00:07:09 ◼   ► was it was still in the realm of the [TS]

00:07:11 ◼   ► personal but like these tunes now like [TS]

00:07:15 ◼   ► the space that they are trying to convey [TS]

00:07:17 ◼   ► is like we are marching through the [TS]

00:07:19 ◼   ► desert waving giant red banners we are [TS]

00:07:23 ◼   ► honored urgency [TS]

00:07:25 ◼   ► yeah we are an army on the move we are [TS]

00:07:27 ◼   ► we are crossing the steps and we are [TS]

00:07:30 ◼   ► coming into Hungary it like it is it [TS]

00:07:35 ◼   ► with my co adds so much huger sounding [TS]

00:07:39 ◼   ► and there is in there at least to my [TS]

00:07:41 ◼   ► ears doesn't feel like there's any space [TS]

00:07:43 ◼   ► in there to be like I'm a person and the [TS]

00:07:45 ◼   ► person i like is a is across the room [TS]

00:07:48 ◼   ► it's much more like I'm in this army and [TS]

00:07:50 ◼   ► we're moving together forward to like to [TS]

00:07:53 ◼   ► do something ambiguous you know like I [TS]

00:07:55 ◼   ► mean I think the taylor swift lyrics are [TS]

00:07:58 ◼   ► still to the effect of like haters gonna [TS]

00:08:01 ◼   ► hate but but it feels like it feels like [TS]

00:08:04 ◼   ► haters are gonna hate in a giant giant [TS]

00:08:06 ◼   ► right crystal but cathedral type of [TS]

00:08:11 ◼   ► setting [TS]

00:08:12 ◼   ► yeah you know I'm trying to I'm trying [TS]

00:08:15 ◼   ► to think about this though because you [TS]

00:08:17 ◼   ► know more about like how this stuff it's [TS]

00:08:18 ◼   ► made an idea but i have a you know i'm [TS]

00:08:20 ◼   ► not going to say grudging admiration I [TS]

00:08:22 ◼   ► developed a kind of admiration for pop [TS]

00:08:25 ◼   ► culture products even if it's not like [TS]

00:08:27 ◼   ► something that I'm i really enjoy [TS]

00:08:29 ◼   ► sometimes I hear something like I think [TS]

00:08:32 ◼   ► her name is a pee ! i'll hear one of the [TS]

00:08:35 ◼   ► the hair pink tune and like that Reddick [TS]

00:08:39 ◼   ► raise your glass song it's it's such a [TS]

00:08:42 ◼   ► great tune [TS]

00:08:43 ◼   ► yeah and it's but it has that it has [TS]

00:08:45 ◼   ► that I think that has a feeling you're [TS]

00:08:46 ◼   ► talking about were like it's like it's [TS]

00:08:48 ◼   ► such a rallying cry and I think it's a [TS]

00:08:51 ◼   ► rallying cry about a party [TS]

00:08:52 ◼   ► oh alright brown crab are you know [TS]

00:08:55 ◼   ► there's a lot of those songs were like [TS]

00:08:56 ◼   ► it you know it really it's and and the [TS]

00:08:58 ◼   ► sound so derogatory don't mean because [TS]

00:09:00 ◼   ► you know to each his own and people are [TS]

00:09:02 ◼   ► successful it but yeah it does really [TS]

00:09:03 ◼   ► feel like it really more more is is made [TS]

00:09:07 ◼   ► to this is the same thing people been [TS]

00:09:09 ◼   ► saying since the thirties probably he's [TS]

00:09:13 ◼   ► not even used to live in a megaphone [TS]

00:09:15 ◼   ► well I'm [TS]

00:09:16 ◼   ► what is that a microphone in my day we [TS]

00:09:20 ◼   ► have to sing into a cup that's to that [TS]

00:09:22 ◼   ► Charlie but i think that i think there [TS]

00:09:24 ◼   ► is something to it in the sense that a [TS]

00:09:26 ◼   ► lot of covers that you see of modern pop [TS]

00:09:30 ◼   ► tunes the cover really seeks to reinvent [TS]

00:09:34 ◼   ► the tune right if you see somebody do a [TS]

00:09:36 ◼   ► cover of a modern pop tune it's almost [TS]

00:09:38 ◼   ► always like us they they take it they [TS]

00:09:40 ◼   ► take a really hyped up big stadium tune [TS]

00:09:44 ◼   ► and they can they play a sad acoustic [TS]

00:09:47 ◼   ► guitar slow we be cover of it okay [TS]

00:09:51 ◼   ► yeah it kind of arcade fire it yet they [TS]

00:09:53 ◼   ► have because they have to because there [TS]

00:09:55 ◼   ► isn't a way to do a straight cover of it [TS]

00:09:57 ◼   ► right in order to do a straight cover [TS]

00:09:59 ◼   ► you would need 18 people in your band [TS]

00:10:01 ◼   ► and that seems a little antiquated to do [TS]

00:10:03 ◼   ► like even back to what 15 20 years ago [TS]

00:10:06 ◼   ► to the unplugged era where like Nirvana [TS]

00:10:10 ◼   ► doing meat puppets covers in the way [TS]

00:10:11 ◼   ► that they were doing them under rana CLE [TS]

00:10:14 ◼   ► and like but also you like really gonna [TS]

00:10:15 ◼   ► reinterpreting them significantly and [TS]

00:10:18 ◼   ► yes [TS]

00:10:19 ◼   ► yeah yeah and and but but like the tunes [TS]

00:10:22 ◼   ► had the tunes had a chord structure [TS]

00:10:24 ◼   ► right they weren't just like a drum loop [TS]

00:10:26 ◼   ► and a and a and just tons and tons of [TS]

00:10:31 ◼   ► reverb yeah it's a it's a it's an [TS]

00:10:34 ◼   ► interesting evolution and I find myself [TS]

00:10:36 ◼   ► driving along listening to pop music and [TS]

00:10:38 ◼   ► feeling these big feeling this kind of [TS]

00:10:40 ◼   ► epics well that you might that I might [TS]

00:10:44 ◼   ► have once felt listening to the [TS]

00:10:47 ◼   ► Scorpions worldwide live [TS]

00:10:48 ◼   ► mhm right yeah uh but but the Scorpions [TS]

00:10:53 ◼   ► you know haha even them at their biggest [TS]

00:10:59 ◼   ► emotional swell it was he was still [TS]

00:11:03 ◼   ► contained somewhat right it was like [TS]

00:11:05 ◼   ► that was no I'm like yo and and year and [TS]

00:11:10 ◼   ► you're imagining yourself in within the [TS]

00:11:13 ◼   ► within that song and thinking like I [TS]

00:11:16 ◼   ► think a lot of metal the way you were [TS]

00:11:18 ◼   ► meant to imagine yourself in it was as a [TS]

00:11:21 ◼   ► member of the band rather than like well [TS]

00:11:24 ◼   ► that's really interesting you know what [TS]

00:11:26 ◼   ► I mean like hoedown music you weren't [TS]

00:11:28 ◼   ► meant to imagine yourself in the band [TS]

00:11:30 ◼   ► you were meant to the music was was was [TS]

00:11:33 ◼   ► capturing like who you were that you [TS]

00:11:36 ◼   ► could use the song personally in sin in [TS]

00:11:40 ◼   ► metal you were meant to imagine like [TS]

00:11:42 ◼   ► here is how I'm overcoming my [TS]

00:11:44 ◼   ► circumstances i am the guitarist in this [TS]

00:11:47 ◼   ► band i'm singing this song and maybe the [TS]

00:11:49 ◼   ► person the song is about is in the back [TS]

00:11:51 ◼   ► of the auditorium [TS]

00:11:52 ◼   ► uh-huh and I'm singing it to them but [TS]

00:11:54 ◼   ► like that's the level of triumph and and [TS]

00:11:58 ◼   ► I feel like we've now that evolution has [TS]

00:12:01 ◼   ► continued and it's like the only way you [TS]

00:12:04 ◼   ► can put yourself into a song now is as [TS]

00:12:07 ◼   ► the star as the as the pop star who has [TS]

00:12:10 ◼   ► triumphed over all and in case something [TS]

00:12:14 ◼   ► like Taylor Swift her songs which I [TS]

00:12:17 ◼   ► think are often things just extremely [TS]

00:12:19 ◼   ► catchy and well done i'm not the male [TS]

00:12:22 ◼   ► fan that some of my friends are but i [TS]

00:12:23 ◼   ► really enjoy it every time I hear that [TS]

00:12:25 ◼   ► shake it off so long i think that's it [TS]

00:12:26 ◼   ► that's a really really great Explorer [TS]

00:12:28 ◼   ► jam it into jam yeah but in her case [TS]

00:12:30 ◼   ► like I think you are supposed place is [TS]

00:12:34 ◼   ► gonna get so like first your philosophy [TS]

00:12:36 ◼   ► class I think you really are supposed to [TS]

00:12:39 ◼   ► put yourself in her position she is [TS]

00:12:41 ◼   ► shoes she's in Taylors shoes she's [TS]

00:12:43 ◼   ► singing a song about her life and this [TS]

00:12:45 ◼   ► breakup I think more often than not and [TS]

00:12:48 ◼   ► that's that supposed to have residents [TS]

00:12:50 ◼   ► with you both on the level of like [TS]

00:12:51 ◼   ► empathizing with taylor swift but also [TS]

00:12:53 ◼   ► feeling that that same feeling yourself [TS]

00:12:57 ◼   ► yeah that maybe one day if you do you [TS]

00:13:00 ◼   ► know if you play your cards right that [TS]

00:13:02 ◼   ► you two will have the moment you you too [TS]

00:13:05 ◼   ► will be able to stand up on the big [TS]

00:13:06 ◼   ► stage be the star and shake it off shake [TS]

00:13:11 ◼   ► off the haters but you know having any [TS]

00:13:13 ◼   ► kind of a message of empowerment in a [TS]

00:13:15 ◼   ► song is is gonna resonate with somebody [TS]

00:13:17 ◼   ► i think you know what I mean whereas in [TS]

00:13:18 ◼   ► scorpions they got a guy with forks in [TS]

00:13:20 ◼   ► his eyes you know that's a tough get was [TS]

00:13:22 ◼   ► swollen when you think recover remember [TS]

00:13:24 ◼   ► breakout that such a great cover [TS]

00:13:27 ◼   ► walk quacks help that solo so what I was [TS]

00:13:33 ◼   ► you know I i saw the Scorpions several [TS]

00:13:36 ◼   ► times during the worldwide live you made [TS]

00:13:38 ◼   ► eye contact with them [TS]

00:13:40 ◼   ► that's right with [TS]

00:13:41 ◼   ► a we get this wrong every every year so [TS]

00:13:44 ◼   ► M we may well with the guitar players [TS]

00:13:46 ◼   ► mm-hmm go ahead do this rocket is I said [TS]

00:13:49 ◼   ► dubis rocket is that his name do this [TS]

00:13:53 ◼   ► rocket after doing so [TS]

00:13:55 ◼   ► rockin Stein him [TS]

00:14:00 ◼   ► uh yeah yeah he he looked at me right [TS]

00:14:04 ◼   ► right in the eyes [TS]

00:14:06 ◼   ► yeah it's probably a wolf gang or a [TS]

00:14:08 ◼   ► class or a it's a chancre was a chancre [TS]

00:14:11 ◼   ► was no it wasn't the shake its not [TS]

00:14:13 ◼   ► important to the story it was Matthias [TS]

00:14:14 ◼   ► jab and Mattias jobs [TS]

00:14:16 ◼   ► yes and and he and I had a moment boy [TS]

00:14:19 ◼   ► I'm sure he had 40 of those moments that [TS]

00:14:23 ◼   ► night really stuck with me i always [TS]

00:14:26 ◼   ► wanted to always wanted a guitar with [TS]

00:14:27 ◼   ► some stripes on it [TS]

00:14:29 ◼   ► oh yeah he played like am like a context [TS]

00:14:31 ◼   ► a modified explorer yeah or v EF knows [TS]

00:14:35 ◼   ► that explore there was a it was a [TS]

00:14:36 ◼   ► chancre was the other shanker that had [TS]

00:14:39 ◼   ► the it was the young single letter [TS]

00:14:41 ◼   ► shanker shaker filled that are single [TS]

00:14:42 ◼   ► day and a shaker pair [TS]

00:14:45 ◼   ► yeah yeah you got to get the original [TS]

00:14:47 ◼   ► shanker from michael Shank Michael [TS]

00:14:49 ◼   ► Schenker any little girl shanker well [TS]

00:14:51 ◼   ► you got client a client shanker have you [TS]

00:14:53 ◼   ► ever seen a have you ever seen Michael [TS]

00:14:55 ◼   ► Schenker the mile sugar group msg [TS]

00:14:57 ◼   ► mhm i am and i don't think i can name [TS]

00:15:00 ◼   ► one of their songs to be honest [TS]

00:15:01 ◼   ► well he is a phenomenal guitar player [TS]

00:15:04 ◼   ► and and the the songs maybe and that's [TS]

00:15:08 ◼   ► it that's a good example of the metal a [TS]

00:15:09 ◼   ► corollary to this conversation which is [TS]

00:15:12 ◼   ► that the songs are less important than [TS]

00:15:14 ◼   ► the fluidity the fluidity of his he's [TS]

00:15:18 ◼   ► recording like leader seventies early [TS]

00:15:21 ◼   ► and mid eighties he's still touring I [TS]

00:15:22 ◼   ► saw him last year [TS]

00:15:24 ◼   ► wow I saw him at a barbecue restaurant [TS]

00:15:27 ◼   ► in tacoma washington where every 15 [TS]

00:15:33 ◼   ► minutes all of the waitresses suddenly [TS]

00:15:35 ◼   ► jumped up on the tables and dance to a [TS]

00:15:38 ◼   ► song and in short shorts and then got [TS]

00:15:41 ◼   ► down and started waiting tables again [TS]

00:15:42 ◼   ► that doesn't seem hygienic John it was [TS]

00:15:45 ◼   ► it was really [TS]

00:15:47 ◼   ► ah instructive [TS]

00:15:51 ◼   ► it I i was reminded of i remind i was [TS]

00:15:56 ◼   ► reminded that the rest of the world [TS]

00:15:57 ◼   ► continues puttering along and even as as [TS]

00:16:01 ◼   ► we hear in our in our internet tower [TS]

00:16:03 ◼   ► like to think that we are somewhere else [TS]

00:16:06 ◼   ► but sometimes it's useful to know that [TS]

00:16:07 ◼   ► can i get an update from you we haven't [TS]

00:16:10 ◼   ► done an update with from you in a while [TS]

00:16:12 ◼   ► yeah so you you're still mostly driving [TS]

00:16:13 ◼   ► the big new truck right [TS]

00:16:15 ◼   ► no I have a I have so i have a jetta put [TS]

00:16:19 ◼   ► the jetta first of all the jetta is [TS]

00:16:23 ◼   ► ridiculous because it is a stud black [TS]

00:16:25 ◼   ► jetta and looks like it's ridiculous 99 [TS]

00:16:29 ◼   ► called they want their weapons come back [TS]

00:16:31 ◼   ► exactly right I feel like everybody add [TS]

00:16:33 ◼   ► one we had one everybody had one I feel [TS]

00:16:35 ◼   ► like every time I step out of it that [TS]

00:16:37 ◼   ► the pic the theme from friends should [TS]

00:16:39 ◼   ► play we have a jetta wagon so don't feel [TS]

00:16:41 ◼   ► too back [TS]

00:16:42 ◼   ► yeah no identity damn and and so but the [TS]

00:16:45 ◼   ► tabs expired recently and uh in order to [TS]

00:16:49 ◼   ► get the tabs renewed I have to get an [TS]

00:16:52 ◼   ► emissions test so then for a while i was [TS]

00:16:57 ◼   ► driving a sort of a borrowed passat [TS]

00:17:00 ◼   ► wagon little bit little bit bigger girl [TS]

00:17:04 ◼   ► that was our aspirational mom and dad [TS]

00:17:06 ◼   ► car that's a sweet ride [TS]

00:17:07 ◼   ► SOT SOT was nice nice car but now that's [TS]

00:17:10 ◼   ► gone again that's been taken away so [TS]

00:17:11 ◼   ► today i am driving the truck yes [TS]

00:17:13 ◼   ► ok so i ask because when you're riding [TS]

00:17:16 ◼   ► around I know historically it has not [TS]

00:17:18 ◼   ► been your habit to just listen to music [TS]

00:17:19 ◼   ► as background stuff but like when you're [TS]

00:17:22 ◼   ► in your repose and you're putting on the [TS]

00:17:25 ◼   ► do you turn on the radio and when you [TS]

00:17:27 ◼   ► turn on the radio what you listen to is [TS]

00:17:29 ◼   ► that isn't an interesting question [TS]

00:17:31 ◼   ► because I think I think that's an [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► interesting question [TS]

00:17:32 ◼   ► yeah you know I i always used to listen [TS]

00:17:35 ◼   ► to sort of all these and watching the [TS]

00:17:40 ◼   ► watching what the fight what what met [TS]

00:17:43 ◼   ► the criteria of all these change that [TS]

00:17:46 ◼   ► was really interesting to me you know it [TS]

00:17:48 ◼   ► used to be like rockin Robin bop-bop-bop [TS]

00:17:51 ◼   ► rockin Robin and then pretty soon it was [TS]

00:17:54 ◼   ► like women I just hear black hole sun [TS]

00:17:57 ◼   ► but with that but yes the first change [TS]

00:18:01 ◼   ► was like when you started here crosby [TS]

00:18:02 ◼   ► Stills and Nash you're like is that all [TS]

00:18:04 ◼   ► Goldie is that what we're calling that [TS]

00:18:05 ◼   ► now I thought that was a classic rock [TS]

00:18:07 ◼   ► and now for sure it's like Tom Petty [TS]

00:18:09 ◼   ► suddenly there's a shift in the last 10 [TS]

00:18:11 ◼   ► years where it used to be like when we [TS]

00:18:14 ◼   ► were coming up you have like the AOR [TS]

00:18:15 ◼   ► stations that were playing you know [TS]

00:18:17 ◼   ► whatever current and classic rock you [TS]

00:18:21 ◼   ► know Julian classic rock but but then at [TS]

00:18:24 ◼   ► some point you know you a question that [TS]

00:18:25 ◼   ► the pop stations what I would then call [TS]

00:18:27 ◼   ► a top-40 station and then at some point [TS]

00:18:28 ◼   ► we've talked about kait here in town [TS]

00:18:30 ◼   ► there's there are a lot of stations that [TS]

00:18:32 ◼   ► are like the best of the best of the [TS]

00:18:34 ◼   ► seventies eighties nineties in the 2,000 [TS]

00:18:36 ◼   ► it's not just this mishmash of [TS]

00:18:38 ◼   ► unobjectionable music a lot of times [TS]

00:18:40 ◼   ► well yeah and that that's what's so [TS]

00:18:42 ◼   ► crazy to me is that all that music used [TS]

00:18:46 ◼   ► to mean so much within the context of [TS]

00:18:49 ◼   ► its of its genre i will at the thing is [TS]

00:18:54 ◼   ► it's like I'd like to say lobsters don't [TS]

00:18:55 ◼   ► think of themselves primarily as food [TS]

00:18:56 ◼   ► and in this case fans of Big Chill and [TS]

00:19:00 ◼   ► post picture music have a very strong [TS]

00:19:01 ◼   ► association with like there's so much [TS]

00:19:03 ◼   ► specificity to like a witch jackson [TS]

00:19:05 ◼   ► browne record you like that sounds like [TS]

00:19:07 ◼   ► really old timey but you know which cat [TS]

00:19:10 ◼   ► stevens which van morrison records like [TS]

00:19:11 ◼   ► they aren't those are not oldies those [TS]

00:19:13 ◼   ► are like works of art you know that and [TS]

00:19:15 ◼   ► you wouldn't think of it as just getting [TS]

00:19:17 ◼   ► tossed into the same pile based on age [TS]

00:19:19 ◼   ► that still seems very strange and i have [TS]

00:19:22 ◼   ► to say somewhat artificial I get why [TS]

00:19:23 ◼   ► they do it demographically but it's [TS]

00:19:25 ◼   ► still strange somebody who love that [TS]

00:19:26 ◼   ► music and see the distinction between [TS]

00:19:28 ◼   ► all these different things that i don't [TS]

00:19:30 ◼   ► know i don't i'm not i'm not mad about [TS]

00:19:32 ◼   ► it but I do think it's interesting that [TS]

00:19:33 ◼   ► we mainly do it based on age with a [TS]

00:19:35 ◼   ► slight access for demographics [TS]

00:19:37 ◼   ► well we we always did but like recently [TS]

00:19:40 ◼   ► I have noticed within the dance music [TS]

00:19:44 ◼   ► radio a slot that craft works on the [TS]

00:19:51 ◼   ► data is great he has a lot of that there [TS]

00:19:54 ◼   ► is now I mean back and i think that this [TS]

00:19:56 ◼   ► is happening in rock music too and in [TS]

00:19:58 ◼   ► folk music right there it gets divorced [TS]

00:20:01 ◼   ► from context increasingly and I think [TS]

00:20:05 ◼   ► for a while I was just as all of us old [TS]

00:20:09 ◼   ► people are uh I was freaked out by [TS]

00:20:12 ◼   ► divorcing it from context you could not [TS]

00:20:14 ◼   ► put an ac/dc song [TS]

00:20:17 ◼   ► next to a talking head song on the radio [TS]

00:20:20 ◼   ► it didn't make any sense they were from [TS]

00:20:23 ◼   ► different universes [TS]

00:20:25 ◼   ► I don't understand it right right I'm [TS]

00:20:28 ◼   ► and then I realized like to the ear of a [TS]

00:20:32 ◼   ► person who didn't come up knowing that [TS]

00:20:34 ◼   ► those were different universes they [TS]

00:20:36 ◼   ► sound great together and at time it's [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► something we've talked about this so [TS]

00:20:39 ◼   ► much better stay CDC and def leppard in [TS]

00:20:42 ◼   ► the am not lying stuff or any of that [TS]

00:20:45 ◼   ► stuff even looking at mr. do it all [TS]

00:20:46 ◼   ► sounds so much rougher at the time and [TS]

00:20:49 ◼   ► now with with time you got these are pop [TS]

00:20:51 ◼   ► song yeah there's a problem but i was i [TS]

00:20:53 ◼   ► I was in a i was in a shot the other day [TS]

00:20:55 ◼   ► and they were playing what could only be [TS]

00:20:57 ◼   ► called like dance music mix dance music [TS]

00:21:02 ◼   ► mix jam and every tune had like Smith's [TS]

00:21:08 ◼   ► but they were completely they were [TS]

00:21:14 ◼   ► completely agnostic about a like era so [TS]

00:21:18 ◼   ► so they were playing like lift freak and [TS]

00:21:24 ◼   ► then right into some kind of nineties [TS]

00:21:27 ◼   ► British a house music and right into [TS]

00:21:31 ◼   ► some very contemporary DJ based jams and [TS]

00:21:37 ◼   ► then back to now Rogers and it it just [TS]

00:21:42 ◼   ► was a seamless mix the only unifying [TS]

00:21:45 ◼   ► characteristic was that it had this like [TS]

00:21:46 ◼   ► disco dance beat right and I realized oh [TS]

00:21:50 ◼   ► sure if if I were 20 that would that's [TS]

00:21:55 ◼   ► what I would be listening for and not [TS]

00:21:57 ◼   ► you know and would I wouldn't [TS]

00:21:59 ◼   ► necessarily care that one of these [TS]

00:22:03 ◼   ► things was the pioneer of that and one [TS]

00:22:05 ◼   ► of them was a was later iteration one of [TS]

00:22:08 ◼   ► them is a modern iteration it's all just [TS]

00:22:10 ◼   ► as onra something how many people could [TS]

00:22:12 ◼   ► identify whether a given Bing Crosby [TS]

00:22:14 ◼   ► songs from the twenties thirties forties [TS]

00:22:16 ◼   ► or fifties 22 lot of people's ears [TS]

00:22:18 ◼   ► I bet sounds virtually identical me [TS]

00:22:21 ◼   ► fifties maybe a little bit different [TS]

00:22:23 ◼   ► yeah you know hearing hearing like an [TS]

00:22:25 ◼   ► old-timey song that sounds low fidelity [TS]

00:22:27 ◼   ► in that case but but here that's I think [TS]

00:22:29 ◼   ► that's partly a kind [TS]

00:22:30 ◼   ► sequence of what I'm just gonna get this [TS]

00:22:32 ◼   ► satellite radio and the demographics I [TS]

00:22:34 ◼   ► don't know how this works but I'm [TS]

00:22:35 ◼   ► guessing exactly like give me the kind [TS]

00:22:37 ◼   ► of music people fold clothes to it the [TS]

00:22:39 ◼   ► gap or topic or whatever uh-huh [TS]

00:22:43 ◼   ► give me you know i want some chill Jam [TS]

00:22:45 ◼   ► jams [TS]

00:22:46 ◼   ► it's like all right well let's put on [TS]

00:22:48 ◼   ► some chill jams [TS]

00:22:49 ◼   ► alright well what's the chill Jam uh you [TS]

00:22:52 ◼   ► know tubular bells sure that's chill [TS]

00:22:55 ◼   ► that's pretty chill Jam shielded else [TS]

00:22:57 ◼   ► you know music for airports uh the the [TS]

00:23:01 ◼   ► you know talk talk's the color of spring [TS]

00:23:04 ◼   ► that's a chill chill jams on that and [TS]

00:23:08 ◼   ► pretty soon you're into like well what [TS]

00:23:09 ◼   ► about this latest a this latest track [TS]

00:23:12 ◼   ► from like Ibiza around I'm sorry maybe [TS]

00:23:16 ◼   ► that he betta and pretty soon you gotta [TS]

00:23:19 ◼   ► children mix and it's also like a [TS]

00:23:21 ◼   ► pandora thing I think a lot of places do [TS]

00:23:24 ◼   ► like a pandora thing where you can make [TS]

00:23:25 ◼   ► a station i discovered it's a pretty [TS]

00:23:27 ◼   ► dark art I don't use pandora as much as [TS]

00:23:29 ◼   ► I used to but I discovered it's a real [TS]

00:23:30 ◼   ► dark art to pick the right band to base [TS]

00:23:33 ◼   ► your station on [TS]

00:23:34 ◼   ► okay i'm gonna like my station but [TS]

00:23:36 ◼   ► reasonable what would place on the long [TS]

00:23:38 ◼   ► winter station [TS]

00:23:39 ◼   ► oh you know a lot of don't yell at me [TS]

00:23:40 ◼   ► music haha right like what's the what's [TS]

00:23:45 ◼   ► the one thing that came up on a long [TS]

00:23:47 ◼   ► winter stationed we were like what I [TS]

00:23:48 ◼   ► don't know it i have to go look it up [TS]

00:23:50 ◼   ► but i think it was a lot of like men [TS]

00:23:52 ◼   ► with gentleman with beards kind of music [TS]

00:23:54 ◼   ► you know you know the kind [TS]

00:23:55 ◼   ► yeah the hog butcher music but on but [TS]

00:23:58 ◼   ► you know for example like I really like [TS]

00:23:59 ◼   ► old old country music and and and but [TS]

00:24:04 ◼   ► the thing is if you go in this is really [TS]

00:24:05 ◼   ► boring if you go in and make a station [TS]

00:24:07 ◼   ► based on Hank Williams you end up with [TS]

00:24:09 ◼   ► all kinds of nonsense i don't know why [TS]

00:24:11 ◼   ► but if you go to based on Hank Williams [TS]

00:24:13 ◼   ► all you get lots songs about regret [TS]

00:24:15 ◼   ► wife-beating but now you get a lot you [TS]

00:24:17 ◼   ► can include you get a lot of [TS]

00:24:18 ◼   ► contemporary stuff but if you go in and [TS]

00:24:20 ◼   ► make one based on Hanks know I've been [TS]

00:24:23 ◼   ► everywhere man guy like you get all of [TS]

00:24:25 ◼   ► this amazing stuff that's much more [TS]

00:24:27 ◼   ► contemporary to his time like you might [TS]

00:24:30 ◼   ► get some old Conway Twitty and stuff [TS]

00:24:31 ◼   ► like that but it's mostly pre cosmic for [TS]

00:24:34 ◼   ► the college country politan or whatever [TS]

00:24:35 ◼   ► it's got a pre mid sixties music and it [TS]

00:24:39 ◼   ► seems much more cohesive what's funny is [TS]

00:24:42 ◼   ► I don't [TS]

00:24:43 ◼   ► still do this but it used to be i think [TS]

00:24:46 ◼   ► it was on pandora is on one of those [TS]

00:24:47 ◼   ► services you can go in and it you could [TS]

00:24:51 ◼   ► flip a card in your iOS app and it will [TS]

00:24:53 ◼   ► show you why it picked that for you [TS]

00:24:56 ◼   ► oh never seen this no i don't use any of [TS]

00:24:58 ◼   ► these programs I i had like a course i [TS]

00:25:01 ◼   ► had a guided by voices station and [TS]

00:25:02 ◼   ► because you know you we thought you [TS]

00:25:04 ◼   ► liked this song because it includes [TS]

00:25:06 ◼   ► major chorus versus a fast be distorted [TS]

00:25:09 ◼   ► guitars and lyrics about you know [TS]

00:25:11 ◼   ► doesn't such beer or whatever really but [TS]

00:25:13 ◼   ► they've got a reason they can actually [TS]

00:25:14 ◼   ► when they choose to pull back the [TS]

00:25:16 ◼   ► curtain they can actually show you how [TS]

00:25:17 ◼   ► they calculated that this would be [TS]

00:25:19 ◼   ► something you'd like em [TS]

00:25:20 ◼   ► have you ever really studied the cover [TS]

00:25:24 ◼   ► of the Scorpions record animal magnetism [TS]

00:25:26 ◼   ► that the chewing gum in the limousine [TS]

00:25:29 ◼   ► no that's that's the that's the one both [TS]

00:25:32 ◼   ► the Lord the dog dog yeah it really has [TS]

00:25:35 ◼   ► to have inspired the spinal tap smell [TS]

00:25:38 ◼   ► the glove smell the glove it really it's [TS]

00:25:40 ◼   ► like so it's haven't thought about in [TS]

00:25:43 ◼   ► years i'm up oh my god i don't like this [TS]

00:25:46 ◼   ► in years [TS]

00:25:47 ◼   ► oh right like yeah yeah [TS]

00:25:50 ◼   ► fast forward fast forward 40 years [TS]

00:25:53 ◼   ► that's like that doesn't really stand up [TS]

00:25:56 ◼   ► lets them off with the chicken just for [TS]

00:25:57 ◼   ► my own purposes what's the word that you [TS]

00:25:59 ◼   ► can get them in the limo [TS]

00:26:00 ◼   ► that's that's a scorpion woman right [TS]

00:26:01 ◼   ► that you know might be there so so where [TS]

00:26:06 ◼   ► is he on his right here in the eyes [TS]

00:26:08 ◼   ► yeah I love dr i love drive is a guy it [TS]

00:26:13 ◼   ► go search for love dr it's a guy in a [TS]

00:26:15 ◼   ► three-piece suit and a woman with her [TS]

00:26:18 ◼   ► dress pulled aside and it's like he's [TS]

00:26:22 ◼   ► got his hand into chewing gum by [TS]

00:26:24 ◼   ► touching her boob [TS]

00:26:25 ◼   ► oh the chewing gum on the boob look at [TS]

00:26:27 ◼   ► that we should have time an animal [TS]

00:26:30 ◼   ► magnetism know there's something very [TS]

00:26:31 ◼   ► special going on here a lot of lot of a [TS]

00:26:33 ◼   ► lot of good James you know this corpse [TS]

00:26:35 ◼   ► like a lot of the best metal bands right [TS]

00:26:39 ◼   ► they they they made the live record and [TS]

00:26:42 ◼   ► that's a lie i have to have to say to [TS]

00:26:44 ◼   ► all of our listeners that have not [TS]

00:26:45 ◼   ► listened to the Scorpions the worldwide [TS]

00:26:48 ◼   ► live album is a great introduction Jenna [TS]

00:26:51 ◼   ► just as Judas Priest unleashed in the [TS]

00:26:55 ◼   ► east [TS]

00:26:56 ◼   ► live at Budokan is the great [TS]

00:26:59 ◼   ► introduction to judas priest because [TS]

00:27:01 ◼   ► these are live records in name only [TS]

00:27:03 ◼   ► there was just gonna say i wasn't gonna [TS]

00:27:05 ◼   ► look over to like kiss alive those are [TS]

00:27:08 ◼   ► those are three like the tent pole and [TS]

00:27:11 ◼   ► how you love kiss three temple albums [TS]

00:27:14 ◼   ► that were really live albums not live at [TS]

00:27:17 ◼   ► all but they said but if there's crowd [TS]

00:27:19 ◼   ► noise and it makes you feel really epic [TS]

00:27:21 ◼   ► it makes you feel like you're on stage [TS]

00:27:22 ◼   ► with the band and the goat and the the [TS]

00:27:25 ◼   ► person that you love the most is there [TS]

00:27:27 ◼   ► in the in the room and you are you're [TS]

00:27:29 ◼   ► playing your metal solo and they're [TS]

00:27:32 ◼   ► looking at you and saying is never [TS]

00:27:34 ◼   ► should have left you would try to change [TS]

00:27:37 ◼   ► the things that killed our love dr. [TS]

00:27:40 ◼   ► community pride has been a walk so [TS]

00:27:44 ◼   ► strong that I can't get through [TS]

00:27:46 ◼   ► is this really the hand now wow ok so [TS]

00:27:52 ◼   ► its weapons animal magnetism [TS]

00:27:54 ◼   ► I think this is probably a hypnosis [TS]

00:27:56 ◼   ► hypnosis cover [TS]

00:27:58 ◼   ► oh ok what else is happening is a German [TS]

00:28:00 ◼   ► it's the German and designers that they [TS]

00:28:02 ◼   ► did the peter gabriel records like all [TS]

00:28:04 ◼   ► the whack-a-doodle photography based I [TS]

00:28:07 ◼   ► think they did maybe wish you were here [TS]

00:28:09 ◼   ► maybe but anyway a lot of them the [TS]

00:28:11 ◼   ► whack-a-doodle photography based weird [TS]

00:28:13 ◼   ► album covers of the seventies were done [TS]

00:28:15 ◼   ► by this the this couple guys in Germany [TS]

00:28:17 ◼   ► I think you know screaming gasps but [TS]

00:28:19 ◼   ► anyway so we got what we have your half [TS]

00:28:21 ◼   ► of the money we describe this there's a [TS]

00:28:23 ◼   ► beach is that we see that the primary [TS]

00:28:26 ◼   ► thing that we see is the back side of a [TS]

00:28:29 ◼   ► man in looks like tough skins walking on [TS]

00:28:32 ◼   ► a beach drinking beer with his hand in [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► his pocket [TS]

00:28:34 ◼   ► I would call those are those lee jeans I [TS]

00:28:38 ◼   ► don't recognize the mark i would say [TS]

00:28:41 ◼   ► they were there [TS]

00:28:42 ◼   ► yes um I don't think they're tough skins [TS]

00:28:45 ◼   ► maybe they are but they're but what's [TS]

00:28:49 ◼   ► interesting is they're brown colored [TS]

00:28:50 ◼   ► jeans and that's that seems very ahead [TS]

00:28:54 ◼   ► that seems a little French to me they do [TS]

00:28:57 ◼   ► you mean I can see a brown gene yeah [TS]

00:28:59 ◼   ► certainly German or French there there [TS]

00:29:01 ◼   ► maybe they're like it's there's almost a [TS]

00:29:03 ◼   ► run lola run field to those jeans [TS]

00:29:06 ◼   ► he's drinking a beer yeah he's got a [TS]

00:29:09 ◼   ► hand [TS]

00:29:10 ◼   ► he's got one is left hand in his back [TS]

00:29:11 ◼   ► pocket it appears to be sunset even [TS]

00:29:14 ◼   ► though he has the brightness of 1120 am [TS]

00:29:16 ◼   ► shining on his ass right yeah he does [TS]

00:29:19 ◼   ► there is some unused there's some [TS]

00:29:20 ◼   ► strange like where did that [TS]

00:29:22 ◼   ► where's that light coming from light [TS]

00:29:24 ◼   ► well i will probably features that [TS]

00:29:26 ◼   ► feature this is the cover art first [TS]

00:29:28 ◼   ► episode there's Doberman Pinscher who [TS]

00:29:30 ◼   ► and then getting its ass the doberman [TS]

00:29:34 ◼   ► pincher is staring at his ass a like [TS]

00:29:36 ◼   ► inexplicably but then I kneeling in a [TS]

00:29:39 ◼   ► kind of i would people I wouldn't [TS]

00:29:41 ◼   ► describe it necessarily as a submission [TS]

00:29:42 ◼   ► putting submissive posture because it's [TS]

00:29:44 ◼   ► a posture [TS]

00:29:45 ◼   ► it's a submissive posture but she has a [TS]

00:29:47 ◼   ► she has a a look that could be described [TS]

00:29:49 ◼   ► as defiant right or there's there's a [TS]

00:29:52 ◼   ► little bit of this little defiance [TS]

00:29:55 ◼   ► interface but their general for shameful [TS]

00:29:56 ◼   ► curiosity [TS]

00:29:57 ◼   ► there's a blonde woman in high waisted [TS]

00:29:59 ◼   ► jeans with the with a like a [TS]

00:30:02 ◼   ► handkerchief blouse tucked in and she is [TS]

00:30:06 ◼   ► kneeling looking up at him and it with [TS]

00:30:08 ◼   ► it with the look that I would describe [TS]

00:30:10 ◼   ► as not admiring but certainly waiting [TS]

00:30:15 ◼   ► for the next wed waiting for a signal [TS]

00:30:17 ◼   ► let's let's call them waiting forcing [TS]

00:30:19 ◼   ► you to think that this would you get a [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► different way [TS]

00:30:21 ◼   ► yeah i mean if it was just her weird but [TS]

00:30:24 ◼   ► the fact that the dogs and turn adobe [TS]

00:30:26 ◼   ► staring at this guy [TS]

00:30:27 ◼   ► well she's looking up at him and the [TS]

00:30:29 ◼   ► Dobermans just looking straight at his [TS]

00:30:30 ◼   ► pants that's animal management and and [TS]

00:30:32 ◼   ► so I guess my question is and this was [TS]

00:30:35 ◼   ► so this was the question i had when i [TS]

00:30:36 ◼   ► was when i was 11 or or 12 is his fly [TS]

00:30:40 ◼   ► undone or not [TS]

00:30:42 ◼   ► alright she's not looking at his fly [TS]

00:30:46 ◼   ► area but maybe the dog is maybe the dog [TS]

00:30:49 ◼   ► is looking at is at his unzipped fly [TS]

00:30:53 ◼   ► she seems to just like studiously [TS]

00:30:55 ◼   ► avoiding it right she's making eye [TS]

00:30:57 ◼   ► contact up here right right right she's [TS]

00:31:01 ◼   ► looking she's looking at the she's [TS]

00:31:02 ◼   ► looking at his meat beard yeah and not [TS]

00:31:05 ◼   ► at his underwear area but the dog [TS]

00:31:08 ◼   ► definitely is looking at his underwear [TS]

00:31:10 ◼   ► area [TS]

00:31:11 ◼   ► I've reached a point in life where so [TS]

00:31:12 ◼   ► much I you know I call it sky like the [TS]

00:31:14 ◼   ► dad engineering stage of life we mostly [TS]

00:31:17 ◼   ► think about how something that made how [TS]

00:31:18 ◼   ► much it cost and how it got me [TS]

00:31:20 ◼   ► at all haha i look at this and I'm like [TS]

00:31:22 ◼   ► this is what this was probably mercury [TS]

00:31:24 ◼   ► it was it was a major label that they [TS]

00:31:26 ◼   ► were on and you know there were meetings [TS]

00:31:28 ◼   ► where somebody set aside three to five [TS]

00:31:32 ◼   ► other designs and said this is the one [TS]

00:31:33 ◼   ► we should go with I'm yeah yeah well i'm [TS]

00:31:35 ◼   ► pretty sure that I'm pretty sure it's a [TS]

00:31:37 ◼   ► it this is the inspiration for smell the [TS]

00:31:39 ◼   ► glove and also i bet you there was [TS]

00:31:42 ◼   ► somebody in the room that was like come [TS]

00:31:43 ◼   ► on [TS]

00:31:44 ◼   ► no this is terrible but you know it was [TS]

00:31:46 ◼   ► the seventies there were a lot worse [TS]

00:31:51 ◼   ► like how do you feel about the album [TS]

00:31:53 ◼   ► cover for those that Eric Clapton [TS]

00:31:57 ◼   ► supergroup group that had the oh yeah [TS]

00:32:00 ◼   ► with the girl [TS]

00:32:01 ◼   ► traffic traffic will know it was no [TS]

00:32:03 ◼   ► traffic it was on there is derek and the [TS]

00:32:05 ◼   ► dominos with Layla don't want that the [TS]

00:32:08 ◼   ► prepubescent girl on the cover right [TS]

00:32:09 ◼   ► yeah that's what you mean [TS]

00:32:11 ◼   ► yeah yeah but it was traffic huh was a [TS]

00:32:16 ◼   ► traffic i want to say it's traffic i'll [TS]

00:32:18 ◼   ► find out this it's important [TS]

00:32:20 ◼   ► afterward just who was at the other day [TS]

00:32:23 ◼   ► that said I love listening to john and [TS]

00:32:25 ◼   ► Merlin look at the internet one of the [TS]

00:32:27 ◼   ► great podcast of all time [TS]

00:32:29 ◼   ► what happened on in Berlin looking at [TS]

00:32:31 ◼   ► the internet i'm not you know what I [TS]

00:32:32 ◼   ► just stop looking at the internet i'm [TS]

00:32:33 ◼   ► not even gonna look at it anymore i [TS]

00:32:34 ◼   ► don't even care i see the last thing I [TS]

00:32:36 ◼   ► fight if I can't tell you the name of [TS]

00:32:38 ◼   ► Eric Clapton's dumb super group that had [TS]

00:32:41 ◼   ► the girl on the cover [TS]

00:32:42 ◼   ► then I don't deserve to talk about stuff [TS]

00:32:44 ◼   ► I'm just gonna sit here and talk about [TS]

00:32:47 ◼   ► how these gummy sold shoes that I'm [TS]

00:32:50 ◼   ► wearing seem to pick up hair everywhere [TS]

00:32:53 ◼   ► I get that with mine too and I wonder [TS]

00:32:55 ◼   ► where is all this hair I like his hair [TS]

00:32:57 ◼   ► just on the ground everywhere I go [TS]

00:32:59 ◼   ► hasn't always been there is what really [TS]

00:33:01 ◼   ► noticing this now is the earth carpeted [TS]

00:33:04 ◼   ► with hair in a way that I you have to [TS]

00:33:07 ◼   ► work on Isolde choose to to fully [TS]

00:33:08 ◼   ► comprehend conditions we are yet we have [TS]

00:33:12 ◼   ► an area rug in one room that we all like [TS]

00:33:14 ◼   ► pretty well but it sheds pubes [TS]

00:33:17 ◼   ► it's a the the way the fibers work so so [TS]

00:33:20 ◼   ► like pretty much all the time in our [TS]

00:33:21 ◼   ► house there's stuff floating around the [TS]

00:33:22 ◼   ► kind of looks like a hair [TS]

00:33:23 ◼   ► oh yeah right but it's not quite a hair [TS]

00:33:26 ◼   ► it's more fiber m25 fibers hair like [TS]

00:33:28 ◼   ► thing also what this is the thing what's [TS]

00:33:31 ◼   ► going to happen that's going to be the [TS]

00:33:32 ◼   ► hair that can fix you [TS]

00:33:34 ◼   ► this episode of Roderick on the line is [TS]

00:33:37 ◼   ► brought to you by our very good pals at [TS]

00:33:39 ◼   ► Squarespace you know Squarespace they [TS]

00:33:42 ◼   ► are the all-in-one platform that makes [TS]

00:33:43 ◼   ► it fast and easy to create your own [TS]

00:33:45 ◼   ► professional website portfolio and [TS]

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00:34:36 ◼   ► technology when you decide to sign up [TS]

00:34:38 ◼   ► for Squarespace and you're ready to pull [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► the trigger [TS]

00:34:40 ◼   ► please make sure to use the very special [TS]

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00:34:48 ◼   ► the line so thank you very much to [TS]

00:34:50 ◼   ► squarespace further continued support of [TS]

00:34:52 ◼   ► Roderick on the line [TS]

00:34:53 ◼   ► Squarespace build it beautiful right [TS]

00:34:57 ◼   ► you're gonna they're gonna pull that out [TS]

00:34:58 ◼   ► there like that this is it is this has a [TS]

00:35:00 ◼   ► very distinctive signature and it was [TS]

00:35:03 ◼   ► found to definitely mission man we had [TS]

00:35:05 ◼   ► no problem whatsoever together in know [TS]

00:35:07 ◼   ► what I would just have to describe it as [TS]

00:35:09 ◼   ► a multitude of individual curly black [TS]

00:35:13 ◼   ► hair up I'm just gonna bring a couple [TS]

00:35:16 ◼   ► pounds and that you peruse at your [TS]

00:35:18 ◼   ► southern lawyer is so much better than [TS]

00:35:22 ◼   ► Bob Odenkirk southern lawyer [TS]

00:35:25 ◼   ► come on the time stealing it from but [TS]

00:35:27 ◼   ► yours is better you can sell it and [TS]

00:35:29 ◼   ► improve it you really think it's i'm [TS]

00:35:31 ◼   ► also i'm bringing in a lot of Foghorn [TS]

00:35:32 ◼   ► Leghorn but just I mean just enough like [TS]

00:35:36 ◼   ► there's there's a there's some Matlock [TS]

00:35:38 ◼   ► in it just you take it to the place [TS]

00:35:41 ◼   ► where where Bob is trying you know Bob's [TS]

00:35:44 ◼   ► Bob southern lawyer is [TS]

00:35:47 ◼   ► is great in part because it's so bad [TS]

00:35:50 ◼   ► it's like Peter Dinklage's British [TS]

00:35:53 ◼   ► accent haha that's interesting you say [TS]

00:35:56 ◼   ► that we talked about him a little bit [TS]

00:35:57 ◼   ► once before I think but I i agree i part [TS]

00:36:00 ◼   ► of what some of the stuff with his that [TS]

00:36:01 ◼   ► makes me laugh the most is when he [TS]

00:36:03 ◼   ► dances poorly sings poorly doesn't bad [TS]

00:36:08 ◼   ► accents of like a horrible German accent [TS]

00:36:10 ◼   ► or when he just he just yells [TS]

00:36:12 ◼   ► inappropriately in a way that sounds [TS]

00:36:13 ◼   ► ridiculous it's always funny to me [TS]

00:36:16 ◼   ► yeah there's no you never have it you [TS]

00:36:18 ◼   ► never know fully like how much Bob [TS]

00:36:21 ◼   ► Odenkirk is conscious of the fact that [TS]

00:36:24 ◼   ► he is he is not quite achieving what he [TS]

00:36:29 ◼   ► imagines he's a cheap you know that's [TS]

00:36:30 ◼   ► what I love people who come out of you [TS]

00:36:32 ◼   ► know improv and sketch comedy is like [TS]

00:36:33 ◼   ► there's so much of like you got where [TS]

00:36:36 ◼   ► you are because you through so much shit [TS]

00:36:38 ◼   ► a wall there and like you figured out [TS]

00:36:40 ◼   ► what was funny sure but then you also [TS]

00:36:41 ◼   ► learn to just ride it out if it wasn't [TS]

00:36:43 ◼   ► funny and find a way to make it funny [TS]

00:36:45 ◼   ► yeah right and that's exactly what [TS]

00:36:46 ◼   ► happens on well on their sketch show you [TS]

00:36:50 ◼   ► know they're read they're doing a new [TS]

00:36:51 ◼   ► bob and david i know i saw some photos [TS]

00:36:53 ◼   ► of the very elderly cast know i hope it [TS]

00:36:57 ◼   ► will be good you know he's been so busy [TS]

00:36:59 ◼   ► he did tim and eric he does the does the [TS]

00:37:01 ◼   ► this all show and what you watchin that [TS]

00:37:03 ◼   ► we watching the better call saul yeah I [TS]

00:37:05 ◼   ► still I still am watching it [TS]

00:37:08 ◼   ► um you know the pace is so different [TS]

00:37:12 ◼   ► that's what i hear ya and it's very it's [TS]

00:37:17 ◼   ► enjoyable but like that the the [TS]

00:37:19 ◼   ► challenge for me was always one bob was [TS]

00:37:24 ◼   ► on the screen my history with him as a [TS]

00:37:28 ◼   ► as a fan always took me out of breaking [TS]

00:37:33 ◼   ► bad a little bit like trying to really [TS]

00:37:35 ◼   ► have Bob Odenkirk be a serious character [TS]

00:37:37 ◼   ► and not because all right now that I [TS]

00:37:39 ◼   ► just go hey look it's bob odenkirk yeah [TS]

00:37:41 ◼   ► and-and-and like there were times when [TS]

00:37:44 ◼   ► he played when he played the role of [TS]

00:37:46 ◼   ► someone who is genuinely scared that i [TS]

00:37:49 ◼   ► felt that i was i was absorbed into into [TS]

00:37:53 ◼   ► the seen her but there were also i mean [TS]

00:37:55 ◼   ► a lot of the lot of the campus of his [TS]

00:37:57 ◼   ► character was just right in line with [TS]

00:38:00 ◼   ► the camp [TS]

00:38:01 ◼   ► miss a bob odenkirk enough that I was I [TS]

00:38:03 ◼   ► was I was I knew I was watching a guy i [TS]

00:38:05 ◼   ► already knew you had such a good greasy [TS]

00:38:08 ◼   ► character [TS]

00:38:09 ◼   ► well now so now I'd better call saul [TS]

00:38:11 ◼   ► like with him as the center i can't i [TS]

00:38:16 ◼   ► can't decide where I am I can't decide [TS]

00:38:18 ◼   ► like eclipse [TS]

00:38:20 ◼   ► I'm not far enough into it i guess to [TS]

00:38:21 ◼   ► know where I stand [TS]

00:38:23 ◼   ► which brings us to our next update [TS]

00:38:24 ◼   ► segment which is you must be very busy [TS]

00:38:27 ◼   ► right now I'm going to let me say i [TS]

00:38:31 ◼   ► occupy it seems like you must be very [TS]

00:38:32 ◼   ► occupied i'm going to a lot of task [TS]

00:38:34 ◼   ► forces because had his task force these [TS]

00:38:38 ◼   ► tasks force i'm going to a lot of tasks [TS]

00:38:41 ◼   ► for sigh yeah I am I am busy and you [TS]

00:38:46 ◼   ► know why but that but there is still a [TS]

00:38:49 ◼   ► very there's there's still a complete [TS]

00:38:52 ◼   ► the the major component of what i'm [TS]

00:38:55 ◼   ► doing is still formulating thinking [TS]

00:38:59 ◼   ► about stuff you know like the the [TS]

00:39:02 ◼   ► running around and and and attending [TS]

00:39:06 ◼   ► pie-eating contests and stuff like that [TS]

00:39:10 ◼   ► hasn't that hasn't kicked into high gear [TS]

00:39:13 ◼   ► yet because i still am trying to tackle [TS]

00:39:18 ◼   ► the big issues in a way and and and and [TS]

00:39:22 ◼   ► like put forward up a real program and [TS]

00:39:27 ◼   ► that is really satisfying challenging [TS]

00:39:29 ◼   ► work but it's not but eh but you know [TS]

00:39:35 ◼   ► it's also like kind of fraud [TS]

00:39:36 ◼   ► I feel like I'm i feel like i have a big [TS]

00:39:39 ◼   ► paper due [TS]

00:39:40 ◼   ► oh yeah and and ended like was strangely [TS]

00:39:46 ◼   ► there's no clear deadline in some ways [TS]

00:39:50 ◼   ► it was due three weeks ago and in some [TS]

00:39:53 ◼   ► ways you know you can head it sort of [TS]

00:39:55 ◼   ► one of those handed in when you want a [TS]

00:39:57 ◼   ► butt and you're not sure how you're [TS]

00:39:59 ◼   ► going to be graded you've got the [TS]

00:40:01 ◼   ► world's most passive aggressive teacher [TS]

00:40:02 ◼   ► welcome tell anyone it's gonna that's [TS]

00:40:03 ◼   ► right that's right you tell me what [TS]

00:40:05 ◼   ► grade do you think you know it's gonna [TS]

00:40:06 ◼   ► be good very good [TS]

00:40:08 ◼   ► so so i'm i'm i'm busy a [TS]

00:40:12 ◼   ► but I'm also you know I'm also like [TS]

00:40:16 ◼   ► crunching a lot of data because I really [TS]

00:40:20 ◼   ► do believe that I don't want to but I'm [TS]

00:40:22 ◼   ► not somebody that's just running for [TS]

00:40:25 ◼   ► office as a as a piece of theater and [TS]

00:40:27 ◼   ► the more I see other people running for [TS]

00:40:30 ◼   ► office I realize like a lot of it is a [TS]

00:40:32 ◼   ► lot of them are even the ones that are [TS]

00:40:34 ◼   ► professionals you know it's it's it's [TS]

00:40:37 ◼   ► all pieces seem some it's cynical to [TS]

00:40:39 ◼   ► point this out but it seems like there [TS]

00:40:41 ◼   ► could potentially be an advantage to [TS]

00:40:43 ◼   ► doing that the opposite of what you're [TS]

00:40:45 ◼   ► doing something very different which is [TS]

00:40:47 ◼   ► going in with your placard already you [TS]

00:40:50 ◼   ► know filled out in permanent marker and [TS]

00:40:52 ◼   ► on the wooden stick and you're carrying [TS]

00:40:53 ◼   ► around you know i mean it seems like [TS]

00:40:54 ◼   ► there could be a benefit to you of [TS]

00:40:56 ◼   ► having a position however well or not [TS]

00:40:59 ◼   ► reasoned from the very beginning you [TS]

00:41:01 ◼   ► come out of the chute with this like [TS]

00:41:03 ◼   ► specifics that may have no relationship [TS]

00:41:05 ◼   ► to anything it's actually going on so I [TS]

00:41:07 ◼   ► would applaud you for staying open to [TS]

00:41:09 ◼   ► figure out what it is you're going to [TS]

00:41:10 ◼   ► say I think it's a good thing [TS]

00:41:12 ◼   ► yeah it is it's a good thing but it but [TS]

00:41:14 ◼   ► it goes it goes against expectations [TS]

00:41:17 ◼   ► everybody in the everybody that it that [TS]

00:41:21 ◼   ► has been doing this for a long time [TS]

00:41:22 ◼   ► everyone that's kind of site because the [TS]

00:41:24 ◼   ► only people that know that there's even [TS]

00:41:25 ◼   ► a seattle city council election coming [TS]

00:41:28 ◼   ► there's only 500 people in all of [TS]

00:41:29 ◼   ► Seattle that even know it's happening [TS]

00:41:31 ◼   ► right because who follows who follows [TS]

00:41:35 ◼   ► local elections six to nine months out [TS]

00:41:37 ◼   ► what else cranky didn't say that i did [TS]

00:41:39 ◼   ► and so so once the initial announcement [TS]

00:41:44 ◼   ► kind of went around and everybody was [TS]

00:41:47 ◼   ► like wow that's cool people immediately [TS]

00:41:50 ◼   ► want desperately to forget about it for [TS]

00:41:52 ◼   ► several months and and they're feeling [TS]

00:41:55 ◼   ► about it is like well i'll look at that [TS]

00:41:56 ◼   ► again when it's closer to the election [TS]

00:41:57 ◼   ► so the only people that are really [TS]

00:42:00 ◼   ► invested in it and I said to stay at [TS]

00:42:02 ◼   ► this stage are people better that [TS]

00:42:04 ◼   ► considering either their profession or [TS]

00:42:05 ◼   ► there or there you know application and [TS]

00:42:10 ◼   ► so I'm in a lot of conversations with [TS]

00:42:14 ◼   ► people who talk to a lot of candidates [TS]

00:42:17 ◼   ► and they all have this expectation of [TS]

00:42:20 ◼   ► like well what's your one issue what's [TS]

00:42:21 ◼   ► the thing they got you mad that made you [TS]

00:42:22 ◼   ► want to run for office and I keep saying [TS]

00:42:26 ◼   ► I think that the foot I think the basic [TS]

00:42:28 ◼   ► premise that the only people that run [TS]

00:42:30 ◼   ► for office are people who got mad about [TS]

00:42:31 ◼   ► one issue is what a horrible framing [TS]

00:42:34 ◼   ► device but that's the thing that I i [TS]

00:42:36 ◼   ► feel i feel like that's a flawed premise [TS]

00:42:38 ◼   ► and they look at me with a kind of look [TS]

00:42:41 ◼   ► that is like either you can hear the [TS]

00:42:45 ◼   ► gears turning and they're like okay so [TS]

00:42:48 ◼   ► you're the you're the intellectual and [TS]

00:42:52 ◼   ► I'm like well I'm just somebody who [TS]

00:42:56 ◼   ► believes in democracy and I feel like if [TS]

00:43:01 ◼   ► your city council is always populated by [TS]

00:43:04 ◼   ► people who got mad at the dog catcher [TS]

00:43:06 ◼   ► and so they had then they ran for dog [TS]

00:43:08 ◼   ► catcher and then they were the angry dog [TS]

00:43:11 ◼   ► catcher who was mad at City Hall about [TS]

00:43:15 ◼   ► about the dog catching and then they get [TS]

00:43:18 ◼   ► elected to City Hall then you have been [TS]

00:43:20 ◼   ► you have a city council is populated by [TS]

00:43:22 ◼   ► by people that are mad and they don't [TS]

00:43:24 ◼   ► have a very broad sense of how things [TS]

00:43:27 ◼   ► work but they they were able to they [TS]

00:43:31 ◼   ► were able to yell about the one thing [TS]

00:43:33 ◼   ► that they're mad about and get several [TS]

00:43:35 ◼   ► thousand people to say like yeah that is [TS]

00:43:38 ◼   ► people who agreed that was the thing [TS]

00:43:39 ◼   ► that he mad about and then all of a [TS]

00:43:41 ◼   ► sudden you know that's it that's who we [TS]

00:43:43 ◼   ► sent to public office right the people [TS]

00:43:45 ◼   ► that are like I don't believe that this [TS]

00:43:47 ◼   ► that the schools should be teaching sex [TS]

00:43:50 ◼   ► education and that's why I'm running for [TS]

00:43:52 ◼   ► local representative well and it makes [TS]

00:43:55 ◼   ► me think nothing about comic books but [TS]

00:43:57 ◼   ► it makes me think a little bit like you [TS]

00:43:59 ◼   ► know we've already got a Batman there's [TS]

00:44:00 ◼   ► already one guy that had a bad [TS]

00:44:02 ◼   ► experience with crime and decided to [TS]

00:44:04 ◼   ► become a crime fighter i would not want [TS]

00:44:06 ◼   ► every person serving in the police [TS]

00:44:08 ◼   ► department to think that there Batman [TS]

00:44:09 ◼   ► you don't mean like there should be [TS]

00:44:11 ◼   ► something beyond and like revenge which [TS]

00:44:14 ◼   ► is what you're describing what you're [TS]

00:44:15 ◼   ► describing in some ways is having a chip [TS]

00:44:17 ◼   ► on your shoulder it isn't just that like [TS]

00:44:18 ◼   ► oh my kid didn't get health care [TS]

00:44:19 ◼   ► coverage or something [TS]

00:44:20 ◼   ► you're talking about something where [TS]

00:44:21 ◼   ► like basically i think what you're [TS]

00:44:23 ◼   ► describing is someone who has decided to [TS]

00:44:26 ◼   ► turn a personal grudge into a career [TS]

00:44:28 ◼   ► well and then at some point along the [TS]

00:44:30 ◼   ► way a person sidles up to them and they [TS]

00:44:33 ◼   ► say hey you know this thing about dog [TS]

00:44:34 ◼   ► catchers that you're so mad about [TS]

00:44:36 ◼   ► here's how dog catchers actually get [TS]

00:44:37 ◼   ► elected and it's not anything [TS]

00:44:39 ◼   ► like you're saying right and then that [TS]

00:44:42 ◼   ► person has a choice either recant and [TS]

00:44:47 ◼   ► learn about things or cynically smile [TS]

00:44:52 ◼   ► and say that's cool [TS]

00:44:54 ◼   ► yelling about dog catchers is what got [TS]

00:44:56 ◼   ► me elected and so now that i know better [TS]

00:44:59 ◼   ► i'm still going to yell about dog [TS]

00:45:01 ◼   ► catchers because that still resonates [TS]

00:45:03 ◼   ► with people and I think that's what [TS]

00:45:05 ◼   ► happens more often than not it's why you [TS]

00:45:07 ◼   ► get these its way to get politicians who [TS]

00:45:09 ◼   ► are like alright well just between us we [TS]

00:45:12 ◼   ► know how things work but I'm gonna walk [TS]

00:45:15 ◼   ► out there on the big stage and start [TS]

00:45:17 ◼   ► talking about a talking in these terms [TS]

00:45:21 ◼   ► that I know animates an audience and [TS]

00:45:23 ◼   ► that's infuriating and it has to be like [TS]

00:45:26 ◼   ► it's a certain amount of misdirection [TS]

00:45:27 ◼   ► I'm not lying in this direction to bring [TS]

00:45:29 ◼   ► it around to that point that you know [TS]

00:45:30 ◼   ► test well for example well in and and at [TS]

00:45:34 ◼   ► a certain point everybody wants a [TS]

00:45:35 ◼   ► solution [TS]

00:45:36 ◼   ► everybody wants to hear solutions and [TS]

00:45:37 ◼   ► nobody wants to hear [TS]

00:45:39 ◼   ► well solutions are complicated and every [TS]

00:45:43 ◼   ► time you apply every time you pass a new [TS]

00:45:47 ◼   ► law that that you hope solve this [TS]

00:45:49 ◼   ► problem [TS]

00:45:50 ◼   ► it creates for new potential problems [TS]

00:45:53 ◼   ► right it's just like you can't if you if [TS]

00:45:56 ◼   ► you look at the history if you look at [TS]

00:45:57 ◼   ► our history and you think like well [TS]

00:46:00 ◼   ► let's talk about some laws that solve [TS]

00:46:01 ◼   ► some problems when you can see quite a [TS]

00:46:03 ◼   ► few that have but you can also see tons [TS]

00:46:06 ◼   ► and tons of laws that like prohibition [TS]

00:46:10 ◼   ► solve the problem created 50 new [TS]

00:46:13 ◼   ► problems right and there are lesser [TS]

00:46:16 ◼   ► examples but lesser only because they [TS]

00:46:20 ◼   ► are less ridiculous but they created [TS]

00:46:22 ◼   ► problem upon problem so I'm I'm learning [TS]

00:46:25 ◼   ► that too i'm going to meetings where [TS]

00:46:27 ◼   ► people are pounding on desks and saying [TS]

00:46:29 ◼   ► we have a housing crisis and we do have [TS]

00:46:33 ◼   ► a housing crisis and then they say and [TS]

00:46:35 ◼   ► here's the solution and I go wow that [TS]

00:46:38 ◼   ► was easy up [TS]

00:46:40 ◼   ► whoa i'm close the file on that one um [TS]

00:46:42 ◼   ► that's really interesting because the [TS]

00:46:44 ◼   ► housing crisis is is a you know is a [TS]

00:46:47 ◼   ► multi-tenant rolled animal and that [TS]

00:46:49 ◼   ► doesn't make it 10 here's the other [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► thing [TS]

00:46:51 ◼   ► then there's a there's a separate part [TS]

00:46:54 ◼   ► of the political class that understands [TS]

00:46:56 ◼   ► those problems are multi ten-year-old [TS]

00:46:58 ◼   ► animals and they are the like the Rye [TS]

00:47:01 ◼   ► incremental lists who say well there are [TS]

00:47:06 ◼   ► no if there are no easy solutions and so [TS]

00:47:09 ◼   ► we just have to like double down on [TS]

00:47:12 ◼   ► unimaginative small-scale incremental [TS]

00:47:18 ◼   ► little-little process-based revisions to [TS]

00:47:25 ◼   ► current policy so like a professional [TS]

00:47:28 ◼   ► politicians approach exactly and so you [TS]

00:47:31 ◼   ► get either demagogues or you get a you [TS]

00:47:34 ◼   ► get people that are like fully vested in [TS]

00:47:36 ◼   ► the process and don't have they don't [TS]

00:47:39 ◼   ► believe that imagination can work and [TS]

00:47:43 ◼   ► somewhere between those two places we [TS]

00:47:45 ◼   ► were were in this strange world where no [TS]

00:47:48 ◼   ► progress really happens but we have a [TS]

00:47:50 ◼   ► lot of people in public office that are [TS]

00:47:52 ◼   ► talking about we need to support Israel [TS]

00:47:55 ◼   ► because that's what Jesus wants our why [TS]

00:47:57 ◼   ► do you know like there are there are a [TS]

00:47:59 ◼   ► thousand thousand examples even on the [TS]

00:48:01 ◼   ► liberal side and so I you know I like I [TS]

00:48:06 ◼   ► feel like stepping into that arena and [TS]

00:48:11 ◼   ► being unwilling to speak exclusively in [TS]

00:48:14 ◼   ► bullet points but also being unwilling [TS]

00:48:17 ◼   ► to get chastised over and over for [TS]

00:48:21 ◼   ► having to having to adventurous a idea [TS]

00:48:25 ◼   ► kit for you know like i have started to [TS]

00:48:30 ◼   ► seriously talk about gondolas here to [TS]

00:48:34 ◼   ► people who know about that that's [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► awesome [TS]

00:48:36 ◼   ► and there are a lot of transit people [TS]

00:48:39 ◼   ► who are really really smart and a lot of [TS]

00:48:42 ◼   ► them are like haha gondolas it's a [TS]

00:48:44 ◼   ► really great idea we have done some [TS]

00:48:47 ◼   ► studies on them but the problem is that [TS]

00:48:49 ◼   ► you could never get it's the voters to [TS]

00:48:54 ◼   ► go along with it with a big dream [TS]

00:48:56 ◼   ► project like that and my reply to that [TS]

00:49:00 ◼   ► is like imagine the people sitting in [TS]

00:49:03 ◼   ► the room the first time someone on [TS]

00:49:05 ◼   ► failed a drawing of the space needle [TS]

00:49:07 ◼   ► that they intended to build and said [TS]

00:49:10 ◼   ► here's the here's a tower we want to [TS]

00:49:11 ◼   ► build and people look at it and go what [TS]

00:49:16 ◼   ► for what is it it's a tower [TS]

00:49:19 ◼   ► what good is it it's good for going up [TS]

00:49:22 ◼   ► in it looks really expensive [TS]

00:49:25 ◼   ► oh it will be why would we build this [TS]

00:49:28 ◼   ► because it's cool [TS]

00:49:29 ◼   ► uh I mean can you picture the scene i'm [TS]

00:49:35 ◼   ► thinking about exactly what you're [TS]

00:49:36 ◼   ► describing which is that it [TS]

00:49:38 ◼   ► it's like we can't even have this [TS]

00:49:40 ◼   ► conversation because that's not a [TS]

00:49:41 ◼   ► building [TS]

00:49:42 ◼   ► yeah right but sort of any we're saying [TS]

00:49:44 ◼   ► like what you're proposing [TS]

00:49:45 ◼   ► I mean it's like eating a plate of [TS]

00:49:46 ◼   ► mashed potatoes and calling it a college [TS]

00:49:49 ◼   ► and yet they built the space needle [TS]

00:49:52 ◼   ► right and and what when I think about [TS]

00:49:54 ◼   ► that you know you think about the [TS]

00:49:56 ◼   ► interstate highway system in the United [TS]

00:49:58 ◼   ► States the original name of the [TS]

00:50:01 ◼   ► interstate highway system was something [TS]

00:50:03 ◼   ► like the interstate roads and defense [TS]

00:50:07 ◼   ► escape routes highway system you know [TS]

00:50:12 ◼   ► like a big part of of the justification [TS]

00:50:15 ◼   ► for building the interstates was that it [TS]

00:50:18 ◼   ► would enable us to move troops around [TS]

00:50:20 ◼   ► faster in case America was invaded by [TS]

00:50:24 ◼   ► the Russians as a second reason they [TS]

00:50:26 ◼   ► made the internet really and and also if [TS]

00:50:29 ◼   ► we had an well if there was a little bit [TS]

00:50:32 ◼   ► of a warning from the Civil Defence [TS]

00:50:35 ◼   ► horns we could get in our 57 Chevys and [TS]

00:50:39 ◼   ► drive out of the city and escape the [TS]

00:50:40 ◼   ► nuclear nuclear attack that was coming [TS]

00:50:42 ◼   ► right like that was part of how we sold [TS]

00:50:46 ◼   ► what ended up being a 400 billion dollar [TS]

00:50:49 ◼   ► nationwide project like oh you'll be [TS]

00:50:51 ◼   ► able to get out of the town to escape [TS]

00:50:55 ◼   ► the bombs and also we can move troops [TS]

00:50:57 ◼   ► around and also it'll be great on [TS]

00:50:59 ◼   ► Saturday afternoons you can get out to [TS]

00:51:01 ◼   ► the country huh [TS]

00:51:03 ◼   ► that night and nothing that like this [TS]

00:51:04 ◼   ► would become the backbone of how we [TS]

00:51:06 ◼   ► built the economy with trucking or or [TS]

00:51:09 ◼   ► how it opened up you know like he is [TS]

00:51:12 ◼   ► first like practical travel around the [TS]

00:51:14 ◼   ► United States by middle-class people i [TS]

00:51:16 ◼   ► mean think about that think about what [TS]

00:51:18 ◼   ► is there anyone in America today [TS]

00:51:20 ◼   ► listening to this program that will [TS]

00:51:22 ◼   ► spend some part of today on an [TS]

00:51:23 ◼   ► interstate highway and and that's not [TS]

00:51:26 ◼   ► what it's for her and to build those [TS]

00:51:28 ◼   ► things we tore down tens of thousands of [TS]

00:51:31 ◼   ► houses like destroyed entire [TS]

00:51:34 ◼   ► neighborhoods and so when people are [TS]

00:51:37 ◼   ► like well you know there's no way we can [TS]

00:51:39 ◼   ► muster the collective will to to start [TS]

00:51:45 ◼   ► moving away from a fossil fuel based [TS]

00:51:47 ◼   ► economy for instance it's like are you [TS]

00:51:49 ◼   ► kidding me [TS]

00:51:50 ◼   ► it's happening it's happening anyway and [TS]

00:51:55 ◼   ► so the question is how do you get ahead [TS]

00:51:57 ◼   ► of it you know how do you do it [TS]

00:51:59 ◼   ► correctly [TS]

00:52:00 ◼   ► instead of doing it accidentally or or [TS]

00:52:03 ◼   ► by happenstance and in seattle it's the [TS]

00:52:06 ◼   ► same thing I mean yeah [TS]

00:52:07 ◼   ► gondolas would gondolas sound like a [TS]

00:52:10 ◼   ► ridiculous idea right they sound like a [TS]

00:52:14 ◼   ► joke idea that a day that the weird rock [TS]

00:52:17 ◼   ► candidate came up it comes out that way [TS]

00:52:22 ◼   ► and shut that Seattle is is a city built [TS]

00:52:28 ◼   ► on seven hills right we're basically an [TS]

00:52:31 ◼   ► alpine resort in summer and we keep [TS]

00:52:36 ◼   ► talking about bike lanes we keep talking [TS]

00:52:38 ◼   ► about all these methods of moving people [TS]

00:52:40 ◼   ► around and in in that conversation [TS]

00:52:42 ◼   ► there's never any acknowledgement that [TS]

00:52:47 ◼   ► that everywhere you would want to go [TS]

00:52:50 ◼   ► involves going up a huge fucking Hill [TS]

00:52:53 ◼   ► and so it's like we need to get more [TS]

00:52:56 ◼   ► bikes [TS]

00:52:57 ◼   ► well okay but the only people that can [TS]

00:52:58 ◼   ► ride bikes in seattle are like super [TS]

00:53:00 ◼   ► athletes and if you if you go down to [TS]

00:53:03 ◼   ► Portland Oregon which is largely a flat [TS]

00:53:05 ◼   ► City you see people riding their bikes [TS]

00:53:08 ◼   ► and they are in there you know they're [TS]

00:53:10 ◼   ► like dressed nicely they are peddling [TS]

00:53:12 ◼   ► slowly they have a little basket with [TS]

00:53:15 ◼   ► some bread and maybe a dog in it and [TS]

00:53:19 ◼   ► they're peddling on there nice flat wide [TS]

00:53:21 ◼   ► streets to go from one flat place to the [TS]

00:53:24 ◼   ► next and in seattle if you are downtown [TS]

00:53:28 ◼   ► and want to go to Capitol Hill which as [TS]

00:53:30 ◼   ► the crow flies is [TS]

00:53:31 ◼   ► quarter of a mile over you basically [TS]

00:53:35 ◼   ► have to be dressed like your writing the [TS]

00:53:39 ◼   ► Tour de France and you know you're not [TS]

00:53:43 ◼   ► gonna you're not gonna get on your bike [TS]

00:53:45 ◼   ► with your Sudan right up to Capitol Hill [TS]

00:53:47 ◼   ► for lunch and ride back down you would [TS]

00:53:49 ◼   ► be you would be drenched in sweat and [TS]

00:53:51 ◼   ► you haven't mentioned the weather let [TS]

00:53:53 ◼   ► alone the rain so I do believe that we [TS]

00:53:55 ◼   ► should have bikes everywhere but if [TS]

00:53:57 ◼   ► there were a network of gone to lowes [TS]

00:54:00 ◼   ► you can put your bike in the gondola [TS]

00:54:02 ◼   ► take the gondola up to the top of the [TS]

00:54:05 ◼   ► hill ride your bike around up there [TS]

00:54:07 ◼   ► ride your bike downhill which is fun [TS]

00:54:10 ◼   ► everybody likes that and then at night [TS]

00:54:12 ◼   ► when it's time to go home put your bike [TS]

00:54:14 ◼   ► on the gondola back up to the top of the [TS]

00:54:16 ◼   ► hill [TS]

00:54:17 ◼   ► it's not crazy it's it just sounded it [TS]

00:54:22 ◼   ► in a way it sounds too fun to be real [TS]

00:54:25 ◼   ► right it sounds too fun little it sounds [TS]

00:54:28 ◼   ► whimsical it sounds whimsical until you [TS]

00:54:31 ◼   ► picture like oh let's imagine the city [TS]

00:54:34 ◼   ► and fifty years and we've got like trams [TS]

00:54:36 ◼   ► running up in a funicular up this street [TS]

00:54:38 ◼   ► and it doesn't have to be a fancy [TS]

00:54:40 ◼   ► funicular it's a funicular the hop on [TS]

00:54:42 ◼   ► the throw your bike on it it takes you [TS]

00:54:44 ◼   ► up the steep hill it's just [TS]

00:54:47 ◼   ► infrastructure its infrastructure that [TS]

00:54:50 ◼   ► that actually is aware that it that [TS]

00:54:53 ◼   ► reflects the fact that this is a really [TS]

00:54:55 ◼   ► hilly town but you but so I'm talking to [TS]

00:54:59 ◼   ► professional people and I'm saying [TS]

00:55:01 ◼   ► listen this sounds like a job sounds [TS]

00:55:02 ◼   ► like a joke idea from the weird rock [TS]

00:55:04 ◼   ► candidate but listen I'm serious about [TS]

00:55:05 ◼   ► this [TS]

00:55:06 ◼   ► I think it's a good idea and and you can [TS]

00:55:08 ◼   ► just you watch them try [TS]

00:55:12 ◼   ► I mean when it's their job in a way but [TS]

00:55:15 ◼   ► on the other hand like they struggle to [TS]

00:55:17 ◼   ► find reasons why it's a why it they [TS]

00:55:20 ◼   ► never are trying to find reasons why [TS]

00:55:21 ◼   ► it's a bad idea they're always trying to [TS]

00:55:23 ◼   ► find reasons why it can never happen [TS]

00:55:24 ◼   ► when you must you must to some people [TS]

00:55:26 ◼   ► let's be honest you the weird right [TS]

00:55:28 ◼   ► candidate you must sound like a flat [TS]

00:55:30 ◼   ► earth person or like historical [TS]

00:55:34 ◼   ► revisionists or something [TS]

00:55:35 ◼   ► well in the sense that to some people [TS]

00:55:37 ◼   ► you know you're gonna have like the I [TS]

00:55:40 ◼   ► can't even conversations [TS]

00:55:41 ◼   ► we're just gonna be like how do i I mean [TS]

00:55:44 ◼   ► why are you so are you actually saying [TS]

00:55:46 ◼   ► this seriously I mean should we are [TS]

00:55:48 ◼   ► where Dracula fans are right Fang should [TS]

00:55:50 ◼   ► we should we all like you know get face [TS]

00:55:52 ◼   ► tattoos anything else like that's it's [TS]

00:55:54 ◼   ► so outside the pale of what people think [TS]

00:55:57 ◼   ► of as a conventional approach to such a [TS]

00:55:59 ◼   ► boring and giant problem right right [TS]

00:56:03 ◼   ► well and and and and what I say to them [TS]

00:56:05 ◼   ► is 100 years ago in 1915 there were [TS]

00:56:09 ◼   ► still horse carts horse-drawn carts all [TS]

00:56:11 ◼   ► over the streets of New York City and [TS]

00:56:14 ◼   ► seattle and san francisco and i'm sure [TS]

00:56:17 ◼   ► at that time there were all kinds of [TS]

00:56:20 ◼   ► people in power and just the [TS]

00:56:23 ◼   ► conventional wisdom was well there will [TS]

00:56:26 ◼   ► always be horses in the city [TS]

00:56:28 ◼   ► there have always been horses in the [TS]

00:56:30 ◼   ► city before meeting to scale up around [TS]

00:56:33 ◼   ► horses sure the motor car is coming but [TS]

00:56:36 ◼   ► how I mean how do you take the horse [TS]

00:56:39 ◼   ► away from the small independent farmer [TS]

00:56:41 ◼   ► but I be that's going to be [TS]

00:56:43 ◼   ► unnecessarily disruptive to our existing [TS]

00:56:45 ◼   ► infrastructure because what we have now [TS]

00:56:47 ◼   ► works the horses are finally replace [TS]

00:56:49 ◼   ► them right it isn't that part of it is [TS]

00:56:50 ◼   ► like you get so stuck in this idea what [TS]

00:56:52 ◼   ► kind of problem we're trying to solve [TS]

00:56:53 ◼   ► that you don't even open up the door to [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► going [TS]

00:56:56 ◼   ► look at--look at Chicago and Chicago [TS]

00:56:58 ◼   ► revolutionized around the idea of not [TS]

00:57:00 ◼   ► having literal tons of horse shit they [TS]

00:57:02 ◼   ► had to throw a river every day [TS]

00:57:04 ◼   ► it changed the entire sanitation system [TS]

00:57:06 ◼   ► yeah well and imagine the last person in [TS]

00:57:09 ◼   ► seattle to build a barn downtown to feed [TS]

00:57:16 ◼   ► and care for horses during the day right [TS]

00:57:18 ◼   ► there was a last person who is like i'm [TS]

00:57:22 ◼   ► investing in a horse care products [TS]

00:57:26 ◼   ► candidates and had to listen to big barn [TS]

00:57:27 ◼   ► right all right big stables like listen [TS]

00:57:32 ◼   ► stables are part of our economy horses [TS]

00:57:35 ◼   ► how you know how is a poor man going to [TS]

00:57:37 ◼   ► make it into town he's gonna ride a [TS]

00:57:40 ◼   ► horse and that's always going to be true [TS]

00:57:42 ◼   ► there was like my family's made money [TS]

00:57:43 ◼   ► from owning this particular wooden [TS]

00:57:45 ◼   ► structure for 65 right well and so 10 [TS]

00:57:49 ◼   ► years later 1925 I mean not a lot of [TS]

00:57:53 ◼   ► horses on the streets any [TS]

00:57:55 ◼   ► more it is it has completely switched [TS]

00:57:57 ◼   ► right to change it i utterly changed i [TS]

00:58:00 ◼   ► mean yet a different kind of problem but [TS]

00:58:01 ◼   ► like I don't know I'm so enjoy enough to [TS]

00:58:02 ◼   ► be able to fucking malcolm gladwell but [TS]

00:58:04 ◼   ► like talk about improving quality of [TS]

00:58:05 ◼   ► life and conditions [TS]

00:58:07 ◼   ► I mean just the stories you hear about [TS]

00:58:08 ◼   ► what it was like to live in chicago new [TS]

00:58:11 ◼   ► york london let me there was literally [TS]

00:58:13 ◼   ► horse shit everywhere [TS]

00:58:15 ◼   ► well and so our contemporary equivalent [TS]

00:58:17 ◼   ► to that is people driving their own cars [TS]

00:58:23 ◼   ► right right people are bad at driving [TS]

00:58:28 ◼   ► you're not here if you like in your [TS]

00:58:31 ◼   ► platform you and I have been talking [TS]

00:58:32 ◼   ► about this since time began this podcast [TS]

00:58:34 ◼   ► driving is one of these these strange [TS]

00:58:39 ◼   ► things that seems simple enough that [TS]

00:58:42 ◼   ► everybody believes that they are really [TS]

00:58:44 ◼   ► good at it if they haven't died yet they [TS]

00:58:45 ◼   ► must be great at it and yet it is very [TS]

00:58:48 ◼   ► difficult to do well and and almost no [TS]

00:58:53 ◼   ► one doesn't well so we've been living in [TS]

00:58:55 ◼   ► an era for a long time where everybody [TS]

00:58:57 ◼   ► drives their own vehicle and it results [TS]

00:59:01 ◼   ► in tens of thousands of deaths [TS]

00:59:02 ◼   ► incredible waste and inefficiency total [TS]

00:59:06 ◼   ► gridlock and it is going away it's going [TS]

00:59:11 ◼   ► away in our lifetimes and when driving [TS]

00:59:15 ◼   ► your own car around goes away it's going [TS]

00:59:19 ◼   ► to change everything [TS]

00:59:21 ◼   ► it's going to change the conversation [TS]

00:59:22 ◼   ► about about every aspect of the city and [TS]

00:59:27 ◼   ► what's cool about it is that it doesn't [TS]

00:59:31 ◼   ► mean that cars are going away just [TS]

00:59:33 ◼   ► human-piloted cars are going away and [TS]

00:59:38 ◼   ► without human pilots cars [TS]

00:59:43 ◼   ► I mean can be cars can be constructed [TS]

00:59:46 ◼   ► without all this weight of safety [TS]

00:59:51 ◼   ► devices because they're all going to be [TS]

00:59:52 ◼   ► controlled by GPS they'll never ever [TS]

00:59:54 ◼   ► touch one another again they can be [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► small and light and quick [TS]

00:59:57 ◼   ► small and light and quick [TS]

01:00:00 ◼   ► and battery-powered and quiet and they [TS]

01:00:02 ◼   ► can move smoothly around the city and [TS]

01:00:05 ◼   ► all of a sudden you realize a gridlock [TS]

01:00:07 ◼   ► isn't because there are too many people [TS]

01:00:10 ◼   ► have seen the graphics for what it would [TS]

01:00:11 ◼   ► look like if all if it was all [TS]

01:00:14 ◼   ► self-driving cars at an intersection [TS]

01:00:17 ◼   ► you seem like what how insane in a good [TS]

01:00:20 ◼   ► way it could be where they just go [TS]

01:00:22 ◼   ► zooming panning don't let you don't need [TS]

01:00:24 ◼   ► signs right you just you just need a [TS]

01:00:27 ◼   ► little bit of the kind of basic probably [TS]

01:00:29 ◼   ► chunking that your phone could do at [TS]

01:00:31 ◼   ► this point just direct people into the [TS]

01:00:33 ◼   ► direct the cars into the right place and [TS]

01:00:35 ◼   ► so so you could quadruple the capacity [TS]

01:00:39 ◼   ► of the roads and everybody moves like 10 [TS]

01:00:43 ◼   ► times faster like there is the the roads [TS]

01:00:47 ◼   ► aren't the problem the problem is the [TS]

01:00:49 ◼   ► people pilots right right and and that's [TS]

01:00:52 ◼   ► coming really soon like and and if we're [TS]

01:00:56 ◼   ► not you know nobody else running for the [TS]

01:00:58 ◼   ► seattle city council is even heard of [TS]

01:00:59 ◼   ► the internet right let alone [TS]

01:01:01 ◼   ► self-driving cars right there still how [TS]

01:01:04 ◼   ► how many orders of magnitude exaggerated [TS]

01:01:07 ◼   ► is that it's not you're saying it's not [TS]

01:01:08 ◼   ► a focus [TS]

01:01:09 ◼   ► it's not it's not a focus there is still [TS]

01:01:12 ◼   ► you know at the lettuce at the local [TS]

01:01:14 ◼   ► level of government there's still a lot [TS]

01:01:16 ◼   ► of suspicions about technology right [TS]

01:01:20 ◼   ► technology is still regarded as [TS]

01:01:22 ◼   ► primarily a surveillance tool like [TS]

01:01:26 ◼   ► cities are using it to to collect data [TS]

01:01:30 ◼   ► and nobody wants in a privacy is is an [TS]

01:01:35 ◼   ► issue at the city level in a big way and [TS]

01:01:40 ◼   ► don't you know then that this whole [TS]

01:01:41 ◼   ► question of like the cops were body cams [TS]

01:01:44 ◼   ► well wait a minute does that mean when a [TS]

01:01:46 ◼   ► cop comes into my house and talk to me [TS]

01:01:47 ◼   ► in the middle of the night about my [TS]

01:01:49 ◼   ► crying child that that video is going to [TS]

01:01:51 ◼   ► write it uploaded to the internet [TS]

01:01:53 ◼   ► tomorrow you know there there's a lot of [TS]

01:01:56 ◼   ► confusion about that angle [TS]

01:02:00 ◼   ► yeah but there's not a lot of [TS]

01:02:01 ◼   ► understanding that the internet right [TS]

01:02:04 ◼   ► now like we've been looking at the [TS]

01:02:07 ◼   ► internet since its inception as a kind [TS]

01:02:09 ◼   ► of like won't be great one day when this [TS]

01:02:11 ◼   ► is like better than [TS]

01:02:12 ◼   ► little TV and very few people even still [TS]

01:02:17 ◼   ► are looking at the Internet in terms of [TS]

01:02:19 ◼   ► no no the internet is going to be it's [TS]

01:02:23 ◼   ► about to explode in terms of usefulness [TS]

01:02:27 ◼   ► as we use it to connect everything to [TS]

01:02:32 ◼   ► everything and when that happens the [TS]

01:02:36 ◼   ► usefulness of everything will go up [TS]

01:02:38 ◼   ► because will be because we will talk to [TS]

01:02:42 ◼   ► be talking about integrated systems [TS]

01:02:44 ◼   ► rather than these siloed inefficient at [TS]

01:02:49 ◼   ► like work duplicating garbage piles and [TS]

01:02:55 ◼   ► you know at 1.i when I picture Matt [TS]

01:02:58 ◼   ► Howie on his bike looking at is Apple [TS]

01:03:01 ◼   ► watch trying to get his coffee maker to [TS]

01:03:03 ◼   ► work and he's like I downloaded for [TS]

01:03:07 ◼   ► coffee maker apps to my new iphone and [TS]

01:03:10 ◼   ► it's not syncing up with my you know [TS]

01:03:13 ◼   ► with my electric razor but he's like [TS]

01:03:16 ◼   ► he's at the bleeding edge of other thing [TS]

01:03:20 ◼   ► that is going to happen at a municipal [TS]

01:03:22 ◼   ► scale right right because we're also [TS]

01:03:25 ◼   ► write on on the cusp of I mean it's [TS]

01:03:29 ◼   ► happening right solar energy finally is [TS]

01:03:31 ◼   ► penciling out I'll man the graphs on [TS]

01:03:33 ◼   ► this stuff are nuts and even contain i [TS]

01:03:35 ◼   ► saw at you place the same graph i did [TS]

01:03:37 ◼   ► about amount that can be generated [TS]

01:03:39 ◼   ► versus cost per unit generated ya and [TS]

01:03:43 ◼   ► the last I guess 10 or 15 years it's [TS]

01:03:45 ◼   ► completely everything I thought I mean [TS]

01:03:47 ◼   ► to me solar energy number 1 i'm not [TS]

01:03:49 ◼   ► growing up right Jimmy Carter well huh [TS]

01:03:52 ◼   ► number one soul energy is probably one [TS]

01:03:54 ◼   ► of the greatest no-brainers we could [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► ever have [TS]

01:03:57 ◼   ► but very important number two it is [TS]

01:03:59 ◼   ► prohibitively expensive to do even just [TS]

01:04:02 ◼   ► like heat or water right when i was in [TS]

01:04:04 ◼   ► college you could you could get a water [TS]

01:04:06 ◼   ► heater but it was very costly and now [TS]

01:04:08 ◼   ► today i'll try to find the graph we [TS]

01:04:10 ◼   ► probably know I mean it's completely [TS]

01:04:11 ◼   ► bananas which you can do now 44 less [TS]

01:04:13 ◼   ► than twenty thousand dollars [TS]

01:04:14 ◼   ► well and and you know so we're so we're [TS]

01:04:18 ◼   ► across the threshold ever uh where solar [TS]

01:04:21 ◼   ► energy is it is as cheap as as other [TS]

01:04:25 ◼   ► forms [TS]

01:04:26 ◼   ► or were they come I mean comparable I [TS]

01:04:29 ◼   ► mean given there's no longer smell in [TS]

01:04:30 ◼   ► here shine million things to say i wanna [TS]

01:04:32 ◼   ► interrupt but there's so much about like [TS]

01:04:34 ◼   ► what you trade off to get there and how [TS]

01:04:35 ◼   ► much you're willing just to get away [TS]

01:04:37 ◼   ► from your dumb idea of in order to do [TS]

01:04:39 ◼   ► the thing I need to do we replace a [TS]

01:04:41 ◼   ► horse with a car everybody's a car with [TS]

01:04:43 ◼   ► a rocket stop thinking about it that way [TS]

01:04:45 ◼   ► start thinking about in terms of what [TS]

01:04:47 ◼   ► we're actually trying to accomplish stop [TS]

01:04:48 ◼   ► thinking of the internet is facebook and [TS]

01:04:50 ◼   ► start thinking about it as electricity [TS]

01:04:51 ◼   ► and suddenly everything starts to change [TS]

01:04:53 ◼   ► and and I mean that will shut up after [TS]

01:04:55 ◼   ► this but like I i really think there's a [TS]

01:04:57 ◼   ► one of our biggest problems is something [TS]

01:04:58 ◼   ► I mention you're facing is everybody [TS]

01:05:00 ◼   ► likes to either think that somebody's [TS]

01:05:02 ◼   ► being practical or ideological that [TS]

01:05:04 ◼   ► either have an axe to grind or there or [TS]

01:05:06 ◼   ► there just honestly trying to do the [TS]

01:05:07 ◼   ► right thing and you tell so much by in [TS]

01:05:09 ◼   ► that case somebody like well that's [TS]

01:05:10 ◼   ► great ideologically will just replace [TS]

01:05:12 ◼   ► everything with solar and then we'll [TS]

01:05:13 ◼   ► just charge ten times as much that'll be [TS]

01:05:14 ◼   ► great it's like now stop thinking at [TS]

01:05:16 ◼   ► these extreme ends of the spectrum and [TS]

01:05:18 ◼   ► and look at how for the future [TS]

01:05:20 ◼   ► quote-unquote actually works which is it [TS]

01:05:21 ◼   ► never turns out the way anybody expected [TS]

01:05:23 ◼   ► because we can only see it through the [TS]

01:05:25 ◼   ► lens looking backwards right open your [TS]

01:05:27 ◼   ► mind up to what could happen in 25 years [TS]

01:05:29 ◼   ► rather than obsessing what didn't happen [TS]

01:05:31 ◼   ► in the last 60 years when I keep saying [TS]

01:05:33 ◼   ► that to people like the what we never do [TS]

01:05:36 ◼   ► what we always do is evolve our cities [TS]

01:05:39 ◼   ► in this game of whack-a-mole write a [TS]

01:05:41 ◼   ► guide builds a thing we're like well [TS]

01:05:43 ◼   ► that's a shitty thing we've got to stop [TS]

01:05:45 ◼   ► the next guy from doing that and so we [TS]

01:05:48 ◼   ► pass a law about this guy who built the [TS]

01:05:49 ◼   ► thing and by the time the law gets past [TS]

01:05:52 ◼   ► that was eight years ago and no one is [TS]

01:05:55 ◼   ► ever going to build that thing again [TS]

01:05:56 ◼   ► they're building something new that [TS]