The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► I have a question that this is the type

00:00:01 ◼   ► of thing that this is why I need to hire

00:00:03 ◼   ► staff because if i had a staff I

00:00:06 ◼   ► wouldn't have to ask you this

00:00:07 ◼   ► ok but it's a protocol question I want

00:00:09 ◼   ► to get the protocol you know when you

00:00:11 ◼   ► meet the Queen of England there's a

00:00:12 ◼   ► reason it's very complicated protocol I

00:00:14 ◼   ► want to get this protocol right now do I

00:00:15 ◼   ► introduce you as jeopardy champion

00:00:17 ◼   ► Atlanta flash on and or do I introduce

00:00:20 ◼   ► you as to time jeopardy champion Glenn

00:00:22 ◼   ► fleischmann i think i think just

00:00:24 ◼   ► jeopardy champion otherwise it's

00:00:26 ◼   ► bragging i got you all right it's okay

00:00:28 ◼   ► to win but then you know you sort of

00:00:30 ◼   ► rubbing in some of those what's funny is

00:00:32 ◼   ► I I think I thread the needle little

00:00:34 ◼   ► neatly because i was i think i was a

00:00:35 ◼   ► pretty good player not a fantastic

00:00:37 ◼   ► player but I was between 27 de champions

00:00:39 ◼   ► it turned out so I met both of them at

00:00:41 ◼   ► the outgoing one who lost just before I

00:00:43 ◼   ► did and I'm at the incoming 121 just

00:00:45 ◼   ► after i did and i think both of them

00:00:47 ◼   ► would have completely clean my clock

00:00:49 ◼   ► because they had superb buzzer timing

00:00:51 ◼   ► and some better domain knowledge that

00:00:54 ◼   ► plays jeopardy so I got very lucky

00:00:56 ◼   ► wait picnic did you did you beat the 72

00:00:58 ◼   ► you the one who knocked the incoming

00:01:00 ◼   ► seven-time champion off though

00:01:02 ◼   ► no this is it was perfect she Stephanie

00:01:04 ◼   ► yas lost because they had another name

00:01:06 ◼   ► it's like a little family so she won she

00:01:09 ◼   ► comes in we get in there it's on there

00:01:11 ◼   ► on a Tuesday Wednesday for taping so I'm

00:01:12 ◼   ► going tuesday morning and they're like

00:01:14 ◼   ► oh well welcome stephanie is our

00:01:16 ◼   ► five-time returning champion and we all

00:01:17 ◼   ► look at each other and go oh shit right

00:01:20 ◼   ► like we have to deal with this person so

00:01:22 ◼   ► she plays two games at 85 games today

00:01:24 ◼   ► she placed two games she the third game

00:01:26 ◼   ► she plays which was not against me

00:01:29 ◼   ► the Final Jeopardy question was

00:01:30 ◼   ► ridiculous and even those of us sitting

00:01:33 ◼   ► audience is contesting sides afterwards

00:01:35 ◼   ► like we would have gotten it wrong it

00:01:36 ◼   ► was asking for the country that have the

00:01:38 ◼   ► largest state that would have been like

00:01:41 ◼   ► the six largest country in the world it

00:01:43 ◼   ► was a country and Stephanie wrote like

00:01:46 ◼   ► Outer Mongolia issued now someone else

00:01:48 ◼   ► wrote our products which is the correct

00:01:49 ◼   ► state the question was asking for the

00:01:52 ◼   ► country so the winner was sort of a

00:01:53 ◼   ► fluke she wanted Final Jeopardy India

00:01:55 ◼   ► then I be this lovely woman named

00:01:57 ◼   ► Meredith and I won twice next morning

00:01:59 ◼   ► come back and went to shows 45 that day

00:02:02 ◼   ► come back the next morning and I lose

00:02:03 ◼   ► the first game because I'm just fried

00:02:05 ◼   ► the woman who beat me she wins one more

00:02:07 ◼   ► game and she loses to the next seven-day

00:02:10 ◼   ► champion teeth whitener very nice guy

00:02:12 ◼   ► also got ya i imagine that is like a

00:02:15 ◼   ► typical power law distribution where

00:02:18 ◼   ► everybody everybody who gets on the show

00:02:20 ◼   ► is good i mean it's the other qualifying

00:02:22 ◼   ► process is enough that everybody who

00:02:24 ◼   ► gets on his is pretty good even even

00:02:27 ◼   ► someone who ends up not doing too well

00:02:28 ◼   ► in an episode is probably a pretty good

00:02:30 ◼   ► you know neighborhood trivia champion

00:02:32 ◼   ► they win a lot so right the people get

00:02:35 ◼   ► there should really be able to mean the

00:02:36 ◼   ► game mechanics of being you know on a

00:02:39 ◼   ► stage and and so be confronted with that

00:02:41 ◼   ► might get you but you everyone knows you

00:02:44 ◼   ► know a lot of stuff so yeah so I was

00:02:46 ◼   ► with the the outliers of the things they

00:02:47 ◼   ► do a lot of stuff in the game now to

00:02:49 ◼   ► prevent people who win from keeping

00:02:51 ◼   ► winning by giving them better training

00:02:54 ◼   ► so giving out new contestants better

00:02:56 ◼   ► training so we get is more her soul

00:02:58 ◼   ► there's more buzzer practice and all

00:02:59 ◼   ► that and that's level things out since

00:03:01 ◼   ► Ken Jennings but I was between two

00:03:02 ◼   ► people who end up being the number 14

00:03:05 ◼   ► number 15 all-time money winners on

00:03:08 ◼   ► jeopardy which is like a long history

00:03:09 ◼   ► it's right for 30 days to get away a lot

00:03:13 ◼   ► less money but they gave me a lot of

00:03:14 ◼   ► money for a long time so I'm not you

00:03:16 ◼   ► know I'm like the number 220 all-time

00:03:18 ◼   ► winner out of that is still be pretty

00:03:20 ◼   ► good i'm happy with the skills because

00:03:22 ◼   ► they give me more money so even a basic

00:03:23 ◼   ► game with more but like so I was between

00:03:25 ◼   ► two outliers like these people are

00:03:27 ◼   ► actually a 97 99 percent jeopardy

00:03:29 ◼   ► players right and I'm like a 85th

00:03:32 ◼   ► percentile keep her 80th percentile

00:03:34 ◼   ► Michael it's okay i want somebody

00:03:36 ◼   ► unhappy but it was there was funny it

00:03:38 ◼   ► was funny and they're both nice people

00:03:39 ◼   ► too and Billy back for tournament of

00:03:40 ◼   ► champions

00:03:41 ◼   ► I'm gonna watch them kill each other how

00:03:42 ◼   ► many you have to win five to get on

00:03:44 ◼   ► Tournament of Champions three but then

00:03:46 ◼   ► there's a threshold of money and and at

00:03:48 ◼   ► this point someone keeps a tally of it

00:03:49 ◼   ► looks like you have to at least fifty

00:03:51 ◼   ► thousand dollars which is minimum of

00:03:52 ◼   ► three games but up least fifty thousand

00:03:54 ◼   ► dollars now to get in huh

00:03:55 ◼   ► given how well people have done so so

00:03:58 ◼   ► it'll be it'll be a pretty fierce

00:03:59 ◼   ► competition I think for the all-time

00:04:01 ◼   ► rankings they should inflation adjust it

00:04:03 ◼   ► and it's socially it you know because i

00:04:06 ◼   ► think what they did is they doubled the

00:04:07 ◼   ► money at some piano is language why it's

00:04:10 ◼   ► like art fart Fleming was one thing that

00:04:12 ◼   ► came from the series back

00:04:13 ◼   ► I think it used to be like another top

00:04:16 ◼   ► money you could win it was it was hard

00:04:17 ◼   ► to win more than several thousand

00:04:18 ◼   ► dollars but there's a baseline routinely

00:04:20 ◼   ► yeah the baseline that's just call it X

00:04:22 ◼   ► is the first round you know now what is

00:04:26 ◼   ► it like 200 bucks

00:04:28 ◼   ► it usually a hundred dollars on on this

00:04:29 ◼   ► alex trebek one but that should just be

00:04:31 ◼   ► called X and then whatever you win has

00:04:34 ◼   ► to be a multiple of that I agree because

00:04:36 ◼   ► then it's right if it's sort of like

00:04:38 ◼   ► movie earnings to his you-know-whats

00:04:40 ◼   ► notice know you're sleeping beauty or

00:04:42 ◼   ► out of phantasia there's some movie that

00:04:44 ◼   ► was the that's still in current dollars

00:04:46 ◼   ► some billions of dollars that made might

00:04:48 ◼   ► be gone with the wind acting was that

00:04:49 ◼   ► it's one of those can go on with the

00:04:51 ◼   ► wind that cost me thousands of dollars

00:04:53 ◼   ► in jeopardy

00:04:54 ◼   ► no its final jeopardy question list i

00:04:57 ◼   ► think it might think i'm not trying to

00:04:58 ◼   ► torment you here but I do that I believe

00:05:00 ◼   ► that inflation adjusted if you just

00:05:02 ◼   ► count ticket sold instead of counting

00:05:04 ◼   ► dollars just count how many people put

00:05:06 ◼   ► their butts in the seats to see the

00:05:08 ◼   ► theater I think it was gone with the

00:05:10 ◼   ► wind now I think that's eventually look

00:05:11 ◼   ► at prices of stamps with gasoline and

00:05:13 ◼   ► people are like stamps cost ridiculous

00:05:15 ◼   ► amounts like know just different

00:05:16 ◼   ► relation postage is the cheapest it's

00:05:17 ◼   ► been practically since Benjamin Franklin

00:05:19 ◼   ► or whatever you know and gasoline is

00:05:21 ◼   ► actually it's expensive but it's not

00:05:22 ◼   ► that expensive compared the nineteen

00:05:24 ◼   ► seventies right now right

00:05:26 ◼   ► i just paid 369 so you have people don't

00:05:28 ◼   ► like math little thing with the movies

00:05:30 ◼   ► is that the movie industry is such a

00:05:32 ◼   ► cutthroat I'm on top right now thing

00:05:34 ◼   ► that nobody has any interest in in

00:05:37 ◼   ► remembering how popular jaws was right

00:05:39 ◼   ► it's really just you know like whatever

00:05:42 ◼   ► was the most popular movie of the last

00:05:43 ◼   ► six months is really all that matters

00:05:45 ◼   ► and that's all anybody wants to promote

00:05:46 ◼   ► but it's it's like if you look back and

00:05:49 ◼   ► see that jaws grossed 300 million

00:05:51 ◼   ► dollars or 275 million dollars or

00:05:53 ◼   ► whatever but then realized that

00:05:55 ◼   ► first-run movie tickets for like a

00:05:56 ◼   ► buck-fifty it's you know it's ridiculous

00:05:59 ◼   ► exactly i'm everyone i paid i went to

00:06:01 ◼   ► the first THX 1140 check sound movie

00:06:04 ◼   ► that ever went to was robocop is open

00:06:06 ◼   ► new theater and eugene oregon i paid i

00:06:09 ◼   ► don't know it seems like a crazy i was

00:06:10 ◼   ► at five dollars in 1984 something it was

00:06:13 ◼   ► it seemed obscene was a 415 I was like

00:06:16 ◼   ► oh my god it was then you know that's

00:06:18 ◼   ► when pay $11 in something and I think

00:06:20 ◼   ► that's actually cheap inflationary terms

00:06:22 ◼   ► relative to what I paid for that I do

00:06:24 ◼   ► there it is it it's a paths

00:06:26 ◼   ► rite of passage in the united states

00:06:28 ◼   ► that eventually it's it's when you

00:06:29 ◼   ► become a full-fledged adult is when

00:06:32 ◼   ► you're outraged by the price of X that's

00:06:34 ◼   ► right right and I remember being a

00:06:37 ◼   ► teenager and here in my dad complain

00:06:39 ◼   ► about movie ticket prices I just

00:06:40 ◼   ► remember thinking well that's just

00:06:41 ◼   ► proved that you're an old man you know

00:06:43 ◼   ► you're out of touch now now it's my turn

00:06:45 ◼   ► i'll try to explain inflation to my kids

00:06:47 ◼   ► my five-year-old a year old and they

00:06:49 ◼   ► they can sort of get some of it and I

00:06:51 ◼   ► had this experience not that long ago so

00:06:53 ◼   ► the oatmeal god is that cartoon he

00:06:55 ◼   ► raised a returner thousand dollars

00:06:56 ◼   ► despite a douchebag who is suing him

00:06:58 ◼   ► over something that was ridiculous and

00:07:00 ◼   ► he was in town I don't you know talk to

00:07:02 ◼   ► my boy editors and I can go cover this

00:07:03 ◼   ► ensure so I call my colleges only all

00:07:06 ◼   ► very nice guy and Matthew and he's like

00:07:08 ◼   ► yeah come on down and so it's me and him

00:07:10 ◼   ► and this friend of his who's packing

00:07:13 ◼   ► some heat going to license and he'll

00:07:15 ◼   ► pick up the money and his girlfriend his

00:07:17 ◼   ► mother's mother helps fulfill all his

00:07:18 ◼   ► mother does always some packaging like

00:07:20 ◼   ► sends all the mugs and t-shirts up from

00:07:22 ◼   ► a small town in Washington so in this

00:07:24 ◼   ► room with like hundreds of thousands

00:07:25 ◼   ► dollars like you want to help make sure

00:07:27 ◼   ► some family kiddo it's like drug money

00:07:29 ◼   ► it's like these big bundles twenty

00:07:31 ◼   ► dollars and you don't understand how

00:07:33 ◼   ► truly ridiculous money is why wasn't in

00:07:35 ◼   ► cash he wanted to take he spelled out fu

00:07:40 ◼   ► and douchebag in cash to send to this

00:07:42 ◼   ► lawyer said I'm gonna take pictures of

00:07:44 ◼   ► this money than I raised that i'm

00:07:45 ◼   ► sending to charity so we took it all of

00:07:47 ◼   ► the bank made pictures out of it let's

00:07:49 ◼   ► put it on the floor in bundles of

00:07:51 ◼   ► pictures and hand-picked money back the

00:07:53 ◼   ► back and dispersed it's the charities

00:07:55 ◼   ► and it's just a big you so but you

00:07:58 ◼   ► handle cash and the absurdity of money

00:08:02 ◼   ► as a system error symbolic part of our

00:08:04 ◼   ► economy it is even worse when you handle

00:08:07 ◼   ► large amounts of it doesn't matter if

00:08:08 ◼   ► it's yours or not you're looking like

00:08:09 ◼   ► what does this mean it's all this

00:08:11 ◼   ► printed paper like this is a huge amount

00:08:13 ◼   ► of cash and it just it like it just

00:08:15 ◼   ► seems like even more absurd than it

00:08:17 ◼   ► already

00:08:17 ◼   ► you you'd really do that I've you know

00:08:19 ◼   ► I've I've met you several times at

00:08:20 ◼   ► conferences in the UU instantly come

00:08:23 ◼   ► across as a very trust trustworthy man

00:08:25 ◼   ► like I'm not surprised i don't think

00:08:27 ◼   ► that if I had been writing that story i

00:08:29 ◼   ► don't think i would have been invited to

00:08:30 ◼   ► help count the cash it was like a nice

00:08:32 ◼   ► like his friend there is packing but no

00:08:34 ◼   ► it was I'd met him before but stover

00:08:36 ◼   ► great buddies or anything it's just as

00:08:37 ◼   ► good guy and and that's what I was like

00:08:39 ◼   ► this is you know like when a small room

00:08:41 ◼   ► whatever but it's awfully nice that you

00:08:42 ◼   ► trust i'm gonna hundreds of thousands of

00:08:45 ◼   ► dollars in my hands right i I've had

00:08:47 ◼   ► that experience secondhand I just not

00:08:50 ◼   ► with what was in my hands but watching

00:08:52 ◼   ► other people were in casinos where I

00:08:57 ◼   ► like I've gone by the high-limit

00:08:59 ◼   ► baccarat rooms and the like it

00:09:02 ◼   ► Bellagio and you can just look in and

00:09:04 ◼   ► see and you see that guys are playing

00:09:06 ◼   ► with yellow chips and yellow chips are

00:09:07 ◼   ► 5,000 each and they're just putting out

00:09:09 ◼   ► stacks of them i mean yeah i don't even

00:09:12 ◼   ► know to the point where you can't even

00:09:13 ◼   ► clearly count them you know where it's

00:09:15 ◼   ► easily 25 30 35 thousand dollars of that

00:09:19 ◼   ► and then I just think well that's that

00:09:22 ◼   ► to me isn't insane i would die would die

00:09:25 ◼   ► of a heart i like to gamble I I know I'm

00:09:27 ◼   ► not averse to gambling but if I had 35

00:09:30 ◼   ► thousand dollars in front of me on a

00:09:32 ◼   ► planet world player of cards i would

00:09:34 ◼   ► have a heart attack and I well here's

00:09:35 ◼   ► the thing i can do a callback now which

00:09:37 ◼   ► is some there in jeopardy and I'm like

00:09:39 ◼   ► I'm gonna bet everything I could come

00:09:41 ◼   ► from my trip solid at five thousand

00:09:43 ◼   ► dollars but I had this great

00:09:44 ◼   ► conversation with an IBM scientists

00:09:46 ◼   ► recently who worked on the Watson team

00:09:50 ◼   ► that won at jeopardy in 2011 and there's

00:09:53 ◼   ► all this discussion about the natural

00:09:54 ◼   ► language processing that Watson did and

00:09:56 ◼   ► they'd like it

00:09:57 ◼   ► dozens of scientists worked on this for

00:09:59 ◼   ► four years I mean I being but millions

00:10:01 ◼   ► and millions of dollars with the staff

00:10:02 ◼   ► time in addition to tens or hundreds of

00:10:04 ◼   ► millions of computer resources because

00:10:07 ◼   ► they have all these interesting things

00:10:09 ◼   ► are going to do with it now but they

00:10:11 ◼   ► thought jeopardy was the right challenge

00:10:12 ◼   ► makes a big splash it's good marketing

00:10:13 ◼   ► but it's a great challenge right so

00:10:15 ◼   ► natural language processing it was

00:10:16 ◼   ► astonishing that it did as well as it

00:10:18 ◼   ► did but he was working on the wagering

00:10:20 ◼   ► side of it

00:10:21 ◼   ► and how you so they would take the

00:10:23 ◼   ► output like the question what kind of

00:10:25 ◼   ► clue would come up the subsystems that

00:10:27 ◼   ► did all that would you know incredibly

00:10:29 ◼   ► rapidly have to process it before it

00:10:31 ◼   ► rang in it would produce a confidence

00:10:33 ◼   ► score instantly and keep refining it and

00:10:35 ◼   ► he was constantly processing and the

00:10:37 ◼   ► confidence score would let it choose

00:10:39 ◼   ► whether to wager and it also used to

00:10:42 ◼   ► pick which the daily double square our

00:10:44 ◼   ► daily doubles might be under because

00:10:45 ◼   ► they place them not it's not even

00:10:47 ◼   ► pseudo-random replaced traditionally in

00:10:49 ◼   ► certain places and so you can predict

00:10:51 ◼   ► them and so bye-bye other wagering

00:10:54 ◼   ► simulation of other players to test the

00:10:56 ◼   ► system and pre-selecting we're using

00:10:59 ◼   ► Bayesian analysis other things with the

00:11:01 ◼   ► daily double score might do better

00:11:03 ◼   ► elsewhere might be they dramatically

00:11:05 ◼   ► improve the odds of winning and so the

00:11:07 ◼   ► natural language processing was very

00:11:08 ◼   ► impressive but the wagering part was

00:11:10 ◼   ► actually did all these monte carlo

00:11:12 ◼   ► simulations they're like you know we

00:11:13 ◼   ► don't believe the average jeopardy

00:11:14 ◼   ► player will be familiar with the what's

00:11:17 ◼   ► the guy the John the movie about a

00:11:21 ◼   ► fellow is slightly is mentally ill

00:11:23 ◼   ► limited by the statistician Malaysian

00:11:25 ◼   ► really think that I know you mean it was

00:11:27 ◼   ► a rather like Ron Howard movie

00:11:29 ◼   ► yeah so like we don't we don't think

00:11:30 ◼   ► that every jeopardy players can have you

00:11:32 ◼   ► know Monte Carlo simulations running in

00:11:34 ◼   ► their head but all the simulation of

00:11:36 ◼   ► wagering and strategy by other people

00:11:38 ◼   ► by analyzing the archive of all the

00:11:41 ◼   ► wagers and decisions people have made

00:11:42 ◼   ► throughout the entire history of

00:11:43 ◼   ► Jeopardy affected it and they made weird

00:11:47 ◼   ► bats like on daily double straps maybe

00:11:49 ◼   ► we're better and I'm like I read this

00:11:50 ◼   ► paper i said i would change my strategy

00:11:52 ◼   ► and the scientists said this guy Jerold

00:11:54 ◼   ► sorrow said he'd worked previously in

00:11:56 ◼   ► backgammon like computer become making a

00:11:59 ◼   ► backhand simulations I could win our

00:12:01 ◼   ► systems that could be human players he

00:12:03 ◼   ► said in every game in chess backgammon

00:12:06 ◼   ► bridge whatever which the computers

00:12:09 ◼   ► finally improve on and can be the

00:12:11 ◼   ► Masters the games people start playing

00:12:13 ◼   ► the game differently because they

00:12:14 ◼   ► understand that the way they're playing

00:12:16 ◼   ► it isn't as efficient and isn't as a

00:12:19 ◼   ► doesn't have the same odds probability

00:12:21 ◼   ► of winning as the way computer plays it

00:12:23 ◼   ► without any of those constraints right

00:12:24 ◼   ► now without any sort of fear right or

00:12:27 ◼   ► the computer says I'm ninety-seven

00:12:29 ◼   ► percent confident the answer so i'm

00:12:30 ◼   ► gonna wager you know 73,000 there was

00:12:32 ◼   ► one player this one human player in

00:12:34 ◼   ► jeopardy Roger Craig was a number for

00:12:36 ◼   ► money winner and won the tournament

00:12:37 ◼   ► champions in 2011 and he would do this

00:12:41 ◼   ► thing where he would double down double

00:12:42 ◼   ► down double down he was 77 thousand

00:12:44 ◼   ► dollars in one day he did that thing

00:12:46 ◼   ► pushing all the markers Ford the 77,000

00:12:50 ◼   ► the most one by anybody on Jeopardy

00:12:52 ◼   ► effort and one day I think engines had a

00:12:54 ◼   ► 75 grand a one-day because you do that

00:12:56 ◼   ► maybe like he's got you know you've got

00:12:57 ◼   ► thirty seven thousand five hours what

00:12:59 ◼   ► you can do is like a wager all haha

00:13:02 ◼   ► really really any do it and you know

00:13:04 ◼   ► that's hard to do it's real money you

00:13:07 ◼   ► know and the funny thing is that

00:13:08 ◼   ► actually is i think it's it's that it's

00:13:11 ◼   ► a very simple game overall jeopardy but

00:13:13 ◼   ► i think that the daily doubles is just

00:13:15 ◼   ► the right amount of of like a wild card

00:13:20 ◼   ► it's like an asterisk in the game that

00:13:22 ◼   ► makes it a game and the truth is on your

00:13:24 ◼   ► first day the day you won your opponent

00:13:28 ◼   ► had a lead that shit could have been in

00:13:30 ◼   ► surmountable going into Final Jeopardy

00:13:32 ◼   ► could have been unbeatable but she

00:13:34 ◼   ► wagered enough on a daily double and

00:13:37 ◼   ► lost to give you a chance

00:13:39 ◼   ► yeah this is it's a heartbreaking moment

00:13:41 ◼   ► which has been preserved on youtube

00:13:43 ◼   ► someone's posted about three minutes of

00:13:45 ◼   ► it and I didn't realize when playing the

00:13:47 ◼   ► game until I watched interviewing party

00:13:48 ◼   ► had a bunch of people at a sports bar

00:13:50 ◼   ► even we're watching and I'm like oh my

00:13:53 ◼   ► god she could have one I had no idea

00:13:54 ◼   ► because it's so fast right the average

00:13:57 ◼   ► question goes by the the new question

00:13:59 ◼   ► every 12 seconds thinking some of the

00:14:01 ◼   ► research shows so you know you're in

00:14:03 ◼   ► there there's display you can look up up

00:14:05 ◼   ► to the left of the big board you can see

00:14:07 ◼   ► like a little LCD display of the three

00:14:09 ◼   ► players course you can glance up there

00:14:11 ◼   ► while you're playing when you're

00:14:12 ◼   ► figuring out strategy and so in the heat

00:14:15 ◼   ► of the moment if she had a minute to

00:14:16 ◼   ► think about it she would about five

00:14:17 ◼   ► dollars which is technically the lowest

00:14:19 ◼   ► daily double back

00:14:20 ◼   ► instead she got 1,200 and that was the

00:14:22 ◼   ► craziest question answer is

00:14:24 ◼   ► dendrochronology yeah

00:14:25 ◼   ► is it on my god the poor woman yeah so

00:14:28 ◼   ► she right so she had twice more than

00:14:30 ◼   ► twice as much cited could have read in

00:14:32 ◼   ► one and he went right runs just over

00:14:33 ◼   ► twice what you had to just under twice

00:14:35 ◼   ► what you had and the Daily Double was

00:14:37 ◼   ► right at the end and she had no chance

00:14:39 ◼   ► to get another question to go back up

00:14:41 ◼   ► and more than double and so then one

00:14:43 ◼   ► more and that was a gentle i know i was

00:14:45 ◼   ► watching at home I recognized it

00:14:46 ◼   ► instantly because i was really obviously

00:14:48 ◼   ► I was rooting for you I thank you and I

00:14:50 ◼   ► mean you will be on the talk show if you

00:14:52 ◼   ► were one time jeopardy loser cleanse and

00:14:54 ◼   ► it's like there's not much but yeah it's

00:14:56 ◼   ► like my was really really i thought all

00:14:58 ◼   ► she's kind of two and then I thought old

00:15:00 ◼   ► a lot an inch did battle and I was like

00:15:02 ◼   ► oh give her an impossible question and

00:15:03 ◼   ► then they gave her an impossible

00:15:04 ◼   ► question are we going that's a

00:15:05 ◼   ► ridiculous question like this 13 letter

00:15:08 ◼   ► working like all come of course i was

00:15:09 ◼   ► watching one of my friends was at the

00:15:11 ◼   ► viewing party

00:15:12 ◼   ► his dad was a forestry says

00:15:13 ◼   ► dendrochronology like oh my god really

00:15:16 ◼   ► ya Yin right now because it is you know

00:15:18 ◼   ► somebody's somebody knows generating

00:15:20 ◼   ► science but it's funny and then we go

00:15:22 ◼   ► into the Final Jeopardy that game and

00:15:23 ◼   ► this is a great thing about other things

00:15:26 ◼   ► that playing a game show about knowledge

00:15:27 ◼   ► teaches you is there's a Bob Harris

00:15:30 ◼   ► wrote this great book called prisoner of

00:15:31 ◼   ► Tribeca spits and about his be 15 times

00:15:34 ◼   ► back when you only went five times when

00:15:35 ◼   ► he came back and they brought much like

00:15:37 ◼   ► four tournaments because he's one of the

00:15:39 ◼   ► most interesting nice guys he's got a

00:15:40 ◼   ► new book coming out about

00:15:41 ◼   ► microenvironment micro investing but a

00:15:44 ◼   ► microloan so he's been traveling on the

00:15:46 ◼   ► world meeting with people that he's loan

00:15:49 ◼   ► money to over kiva it's he sent me an

00:15:52 ◼   ► advanced copy it's really cool is really

00:15:53 ◼   ► neat guy but he was this great book

00:15:55 ◼   ► that's kind of memoir and kind of full

00:15:57 ◼   ► of strategy about playing the game and

00:15:59 ◼   ► this difference between no knowledge and

00:16:01 ◼   ► ferd knowledge and I don't think I

00:16:03 ◼   ► understood that as much until I played

00:16:05 ◼   ► the game the final question on day one

00:16:07 ◼   ► the Final Jeopardy was about a city the

00:16:10 ◼   ► city him that's germany had a different

00:16:12 ◼   ► name from 1953 to 1991 1933 to a night

00:16:16 ◼   ► yet nineteen nineteen fifty three

00:16:18 ◼   ► dimensionality what was it and I'm like

00:16:19 ◼   ► what you know and I don't know the

00:16:21 ◼   ► answer

00:16:21 ◼   ► I don't know the answer and I know the

00:16:22 ◼   ► other two players I sort of know what

00:16:24 ◼   ► they know what is up probably playing

00:16:25 ◼   ► the game and I'm like I studied German

00:16:28 ◼   ► four years in college I'm like I know

00:16:30 ◼   ► cabinets a german city that's not a

00:16:31 ◼   ► problem i know the wall thought 1990 and

00:16:35 ◼   ► I'm doing this you know this

00:16:35 ◼   ► ratiocination you're like the Germans

00:16:38 ◼   ► hated Stalin so it's not

00:16:39 ◼   ► that after Stalin Lenin was a Russian

00:16:41 ◼   ► Tsar Leningrad I'm like it has to be

00:16:43 ◼   ► Karl Marx but I don't know that in the

00:16:44 ◼   ► sensation of inferred knowledge is weird

00:16:47 ◼   ► and then it's that I got the really yeah

00:16:48 ◼   ► that's it you got enough money they want

00:16:50 ◼   ► the city name or who was named after the

00:16:52 ◼   ► one who was named the city was named

00:16:53 ◼   ► after the city of him electricity

00:16:55 ◼   ► it's karl marx shot yeah i would another

00:16:57 ◼   ► name of the city but in hindsight I my

00:17:00 ◼   ► guess was stolen and and I thought in

00:17:02 ◼   ► your right this way you're on Jeopardy

00:17:04 ◼   ► winning and I'm at home losing a little

00:17:06 ◼   ► hey colin is inferred knowledge i knew

00:17:09 ◼   ► from the years that had to be communists

00:17:12 ◼   ► related that's when exactly that's when

00:17:14 ◼   ► that you know that the Russians took

00:17:16 ◼   ► control over half of germany after world

00:17:17 ◼   ► war two and that's when they lost it

00:17:19 ◼   ► I and so I thought well I don't know

00:17:22 ◼   ► Stalin and and that's that's as far as I

00:17:25 ◼   ► thought and then you're smart enough to

00:17:27 ◼   ► think well they hate the Germans hated

00:17:28 ◼   ► stolen and you know maybe the the

00:17:30 ◼   ► Russians couldn't impose that on them

00:17:32 ◼   ► and if so of course you go back you in

00:17:35 ◼   ► begin the scope and go right back to the

00:17:37 ◼   ► you know the granddaddy of communism you

00:17:39 ◼   ► go to Karl Marx but you're staying in

00:17:41 ◼   ► that quantum state you're shorting out

00:17:43 ◼   ► of the system we call the hospital

00:17:44 ◼   ► episode was the schrödinger's cat box

00:17:45 ◼   ► because you're here sitting there in a

00:17:47 ◼   ► state of which you what you've don't

00:17:49 ◼   ► know if you won or lost because you

00:17:51 ◼   ► don't firmly know that it's accurate you

00:17:53 ◼   ► can only deduce it's accurate so there's

00:17:54 ◼   ► no way to know until someone provides

00:17:56 ◼   ► affirmative knowledge that your crime

00:17:58 ◼   ► would have felt roots I would have felt

00:18:00 ◼   ► real good though if I'd come up with

00:18:01 ◼   ► karl marx I would have been sitting here

00:18:03 ◼   ► thinking it's got to be marks outside

00:18:05 ◼   ► because I was like I got one you know

00:18:06 ◼   ► one chance but yeah it's funny it's a

00:18:09 ◼   ► it's a funny it's a funny game and

00:18:11 ◼   ► people are strangely fascinated about it

00:18:12 ◼   ► even though a lot of people everyone

00:18:14 ◼   ► told me

00:18:15 ◼   ► yeah I love jeopardy and watched it for

00:18:16 ◼   ► 10 years just because people kept the

00:18:19 ◼   ► core they don't to broadcast TV if i

00:18:21 ◼   ► didn't have the viewing party i think

00:18:22 ◼   ► half the people there wouldn't have been

00:18:24 ◼   ► able to watch it at home because they

00:18:25 ◼   ► don't have

00:18:26 ◼   ► form of television or access to cable or

00:18:29 ◼   ► whatever time have I had to do african

00:18:31 ◼   ► if we talked about this online or not

00:18:33 ◼   ► but as i explained to you my theory of

00:18:35 ◼   ► everything it's a theory but i think

00:18:37 ◼   ► it's so short

00:18:38 ◼   ► why does jeopardy come on before wheel

00:18:41 ◼   ► of fortune not vice versa in my market

00:18:44 ◼   ► it comes on how does is destroy your

00:18:46 ◼   ► theory yeah varies by market

00:18:48 ◼   ► what's your theory though because wheel

00:18:50 ◼   ► of fortune makes you feel smart and

00:18:52 ◼   ► jeopardy makes you feel dumb

00:18:54 ◼   ► yeah and you couldn't make you feel too

00:18:56 ◼   ► dumb they're always striking a balance

00:18:58 ◼   ► there i was watching the secret wheeling

00:19:01 ◼   ► the secret to wheel of fortunes

00:19:02 ◼   ► popularity is that the optimal strategy

00:19:06 ◼   ► is not to solve the puzzle as soon as

00:19:08 ◼   ► you can

00:19:08 ◼   ► it's to keep racking up money once you

00:19:11 ◼   ► know the answer to the puzzle and get a

00:19:13 ◼   ► big dollar symbol and pick the tea which

00:19:16 ◼   ► you know that there's three of and so in

00:19:18 ◼   ► the meantime the audience has all of

00:19:20 ◼   ► this way more time to figure out what

00:19:22 ◼   ► the puzzle is oh no you're right that's

00:19:24 ◼   ► exactly it's a perfect right because the

00:19:26 ◼   ► the one the players want to keep it

00:19:27 ◼   ► going as long as they can as long as

00:19:29 ◼   ► they have money on the board but

00:19:30 ◼   ► jeopardy don't i'm at Johns up but the

00:19:32 ◼   ► the play this bounced again i was

00:19:33 ◼   ► watching one night and they did a

00:19:35 ◼   ► category about it i watched excessively

00:19:37 ◼   ► after i got the caller's beyond and i

00:19:39 ◼   ► went back and read archives and so forth

00:19:41 ◼   ► in a they had a cat was all about

00:19:42 ◼   ► Huguenots and I'm like really haha

00:19:45 ◼   ► Huguenots and the players there i'm even

00:19:47 ◼   ► alex is for canada alex trebek is like I

00:19:50 ◼   ► think no one got any of the answers

00:19:52 ◼   ► right here like really about you can I

00:19:55 ◼   ► mean it's a little obscure you know ask

00:19:57 ◼   ► you know technology might be bad but you

00:19:59 ◼   ► gotta have stuff to people at home feel

00:20:01 ◼   ► like they could have known even if they

00:20:03 ◼   ► don't know it all right let me take a

00:20:05 ◼   ► break and talk about our first sponsor

00:20:06 ◼   ► it's great i'm so happy about both

00:20:09 ◼   ► sponsors today I'm happy about all of

00:20:11 ◼   ► our sponsors every week but today in

00:20:12 ◼   ► particular because first sponsor we've

00:20:15 ◼   ► got talks back on board now you know

00:20:18 ◼   ► talks when this is kind of amazing

00:20:20 ◼   ► you don't talk two topics that i just

00:20:22 ◼   ► got a delivery of Tanks coffee i can

00:20:24 ◼   ► even tell you about what it's like

00:20:25 ◼   ► that's me taking a sip i'm drinking

00:20:28 ◼   ► tonics coffee right now

00:20:29 ◼   ► tonks is a small company and you sign up

00:20:33 ◼   ► they send fresh beans to you from all

00:20:35 ◼   ► over the world and the coffee is just

00:20:37 ◼   ► great

00:20:39 ◼   ► and and here's here's the things they

00:20:42 ◼   ► want me to tell you number one they want

00:20:43 ◼   ► they want you to know that contrary to

00:20:44 ◼   ► what you might think going to the coffee

00:20:47 ◼   ► shop in the barista makes it some kind

00:20:49 ◼   ► of latte and then milk ends up looking

00:20:51 ◼   ► like the Mona Lisa and you think well

00:20:52 ◼   ► that's good coffee is impossible

00:20:54 ◼   ► guess what making great coffee like

00:20:56 ◼   ► serious world-class great cup of coffee

00:20:58 ◼   ► in your own kitchen is super simple some

00:21:01 ◼   ► of the best ways to make coffee are so

00:21:03 ◼   ► simple blow your mind

00:21:04 ◼   ► get great beans or grind them just pour

00:21:07 ◼   ► hot water over it into a filter and

00:21:09 ◼   ► you've already got a great cup of coffee

00:21:11 ◼   ► I the guys from tonks find the best

00:21:14 ◼   ► coffee beans from the top producers all

00:21:17 ◼   ► literally all over the world

00:21:19 ◼   ► I they nailed the roast and they get

00:21:21 ◼   ► them in your mailbox at the peak of

00:21:23 ◼   ► freshness and they send her my love

00:21:24 ◼   ► their envelopes are the the limb

00:21:26 ◼   ► packages i think they everything about

00:21:29 ◼   ► these guys to me is if you set out to

00:21:31 ◼   ► this is my this is what i'm thinking is

00:21:33 ◼   ► if you set out to make the best coffee

00:21:36 ◼   ► company in the world you'd come up with

00:21:38 ◼   ► something like punk maybe not the

00:21:40 ◼   ► biggest certainly not the biggest I

00:21:41 ◼   ► don't think tanks as big as starbucks i

00:21:44 ◼   ► don't know yet might because i'm talking

00:21:46 ◼   ► the best if your goal is to set out to

00:21:49 ◼   ► do the best coffee in the world would

00:21:51 ◼   ► come up with something like tonks great

00:21:53 ◼   ► beans everything about them i just i

00:21:55 ◼   ► love the the packages that there things

00:21:57 ◼   ► come in they'd just the little Ziploc

00:21:59 ◼   ► seal is it I don't either with a lot of

00:22:01 ◼   ► bags with ziplock i often have a hard I

00:22:03 ◼   ► takes me like three steps to get it with

00:22:05 ◼   ► the talks one always first one is

00:22:07 ◼   ► transparent so you can see the beans it

00:22:09 ◼   ► comes and you're looking at the beans

00:22:10 ◼   ► and it's got a neat little silkscreen

00:22:12 ◼   ► message about what's in there and a

00:22:14 ◼   ► little note about it and but I don't

00:22:16 ◼   ► feel like they're fussy or favorite it's

00:22:18 ◼   ► like it's like they love their coffee

00:22:20 ◼   ► they have no attitude about the coffee

00:22:22 ◼   ► what they're doing is they're producing

00:22:23 ◼   ► something really good and I'm they're

00:22:25 ◼   ► not my spots of the responses i can talk

00:22:27 ◼   ► about the money wisely behave like

00:22:28 ◼   ► reducing its really that's like a

00:22:31 ◼   ► delicious product that's designed to be

00:22:33 ◼   ► consumed but they're not coffee create I

00:22:35 ◼   ► mean there are praising the fact that

00:22:36 ◼   ► they're interested in it but it's not

00:22:38 ◼   ► that you need to get a

00:22:39 ◼   ► ten-thousand-dollar espresso machine and

00:22:41 ◼   ► spend a week in Italy learning how to do

00:22:43 ◼   ► it it's like you can use an aeropress

00:22:44 ◼   ► you use a final espresso machine you

00:22:46 ◼   ► could use a hundred-dollar espresso

00:22:48 ◼   ► machine the bird grinder I think a

00:22:50 ◼   ► vertical

00:22:50 ◼   ► that's what I keep hearing and and i

00:22:52 ◼   ► support that you want a burger grinder

00:22:54 ◼   ► that's where you put the money but then

00:22:55 ◼   ► after that you make another way to make

00:22:57 ◼   ► it anywhere and you get a good one and

00:22:58 ◼   ► the last year forever but there it

00:23:00 ◼   ► really is not they're not asking you to

00:23:01 ◼   ► put out a huge capital outlay on on

00:23:03 ◼   ► fancy equipment or time-consuming

00:23:04 ◼   ► processes and they're also have

00:23:07 ◼   ► tremendous customer service and a great

00:23:10 ◼   ► website where you go there and they have

00:23:12 ◼   ► videos and things about you know just

00:23:14 ◼   ► here's how to make a great cup of coffee

00:23:17 ◼   ► ah most things i like about them too is

00:23:20 ◼   ► they don't want to grow too fast that's

00:23:22 ◼   ► what i was talking for another soon to

00:23:24 ◼   ► be announced meal radio syndicate

00:23:26 ◼   ► broadcast i'm working on a document for

00:23:29 ◼   ► that so here this in december or

00:23:30 ◼   ► something my interview with them and the

00:23:32 ◼   ► thing is they don't wanna get big fast

00:23:33 ◼   ► they they want to get big that'd be

00:23:35 ◼   ► great right there not an ambitious but

00:23:37 ◼   ► they aren't there like you know we did

00:23:40 ◼   ► have a million customers day one social

00:23:41 ◼   ► marketing Facebook advertising Twitter

00:23:44 ◼   ► spamblocker like they like growing the

00:23:47 ◼   ► growing well they're getting great

00:23:48 ◼   ► word-of-mouth they are trying to scale

00:23:50 ◼   ► it little by little so they don't get

00:23:52 ◼   ► they don't have to deliver inferior

00:23:54 ◼   ► product is just love that there's no

00:23:56 ◼   ► doubt in my mind that their number one

00:23:58 ◼   ► priority is best coffee in the world and

00:24:00 ◼   ► everything else is secondary that they

00:24:02 ◼   ► want to be profitable i'm sure they want

00:24:04 ◼   ► to grow that you know obviously they

00:24:06 ◼   ► want to grow that's why they're

00:24:06 ◼   ► sponsoring the show to get more talk

00:24:08 ◼   ► show listeners to just give them a shot

00:24:10 ◼   ► on here's the last thing a couple

00:24:12 ◼   ► episodes ago in the last time they

00:24:14 ◼   ► sponsored it and I was talking about how

00:24:17 ◼   ► they're literally all over the world but

00:24:18 ◼   ► I didn't have the list off the top of my

00:24:20 ◼   ► head here here's they sent me this there

00:24:22 ◼   ► in Africa they have sourced beans from

00:24:24 ◼   ► Kenya Ethiopia i'm drinking some stuff

00:24:26 ◼   ► from Ethiopia right now and I Rwanda

00:24:29 ◼   ► Tanzania in Central America they have

00:24:32 ◼   ► sourced beans from Guatemala El Salvador

00:24:33 ◼   ► Nicaragua Costa Rica Honduras and in

00:24:37 ◼   ► South America Colombia Brazil Ecuador

00:24:40 ◼   ► Bolivia Peru so I'm telling it literally

00:24:42 ◼   ► all over the coffee growing world these

00:24:44 ◼   ► guys are getting the best beans

00:24:46 ◼   ► here's how much they believe in it free

00:24:47 ◼   ► trial you just sign up go to talk start

00:24:50 ◼   ► or gon x.org sign up you get a free

00:24:54 ◼   ► trial the beans will show up at your

00:24:56 ◼   ► house in a couple of days

00:24:57 ◼   ► fresh sealed and I'm telling it you're

00:24:59 ◼   ► going to try these beans and you're

00:25:00 ◼   ► going to sign up and become a regular

00:25:02 ◼   ► mr. thanks talks it's good it's good i

00:25:06 ◼   ► even ate some beans raw because they

00:25:08 ◼   ► look so delicious that I definitely

00:25:10 ◼   ► could my design schools my son loves eat

00:25:12 ◼   ► a couple of coffee beans raw let's go

00:25:14 ◼   ► ahead and I i will also about he didn't

00:25:17 ◼   ► know he has no idea that their sponsor

00:25:18 ◼   ► of my show you i don't think he knows I

00:25:20 ◼   ► have a show I think talks whenever I

00:25:23 ◼   ► make coffee i say hey you want a couple

00:25:24 ◼   ► of beans and he'll take through for

00:25:25 ◼   ► coffee beans and I gave him the talks

00:25:27 ◼   ► ones and he gave me after he chewed the

00:25:29 ◼   ► one he gave me the nose like the guy in

00:25:31 ◼   ► Pulp Fiction they hey that was pretty

00:25:32 ◼   ► good like that that's good coffee the

00:25:37 ◼   ► other ones were particularly beautiful

00:25:38 ◼   ► color to his olive color it's funny I've

00:25:41 ◼   ► never been I've never been like a

00:25:42 ◼   ► fetishist of coffee anymore so 40 but

00:25:46 ◼   ► not even that but I like a good i like

00:25:47 ◼   ► to make it taste good and isn't better

00:25:49 ◼   ► and has kind of richness interesting and

00:25:51 ◼   ► coming from the town of starbucks so

00:25:53 ◼   ► here's a long story by the way so back

00:25:55 ◼   ► in 2005 a colleague says hey there's a

00:25:57 ◼   ► coffee shop in town that just opened up

00:25:58 ◼   ► and they're turning Wi-Fi off on

00:25:59 ◼   ► weekends

00:26:00 ◼   ► how crazy is that so New York Times

00:26:03 ◼   ► weirdly one of the only direct

00:26:04 ◼   ► assignments instead of me pitching they

00:26:06 ◼   ► call me up and say can you write a story

00:26:07 ◼   ► about this thing's sure so we go and

00:26:09 ◼   ► meet these owners young idealistic

00:26:10 ◼   ► owners who sold the business with a few

00:26:12 ◼   ► years because running a coffee shop is a

00:26:14 ◼   ► horrible horrible business they wanted

00:26:17 ◼   ► to have a community place and the

00:26:19 ◼   ► weekends with Wi-Fi on people never

00:26:21 ◼   ► talked was absolutely signs a crypt they

00:26:23 ◼   ► hated it so they turn Wi-Fi off for the

00:26:25 ◼   ► weekends so the birds vibrator story

00:26:27 ◼   ► about it get some really interesting

00:26:28 ◼   ► play and some other places also start

00:26:31 ◼   ► turning Wi-Fi off it's never really a

00:26:32 ◼   ► trend but it's interesting so the guy

00:26:34 ◼   ► roasting for them is Tony connect me the

00:26:37 ◼   ► hawks and he is i do my first copy i go

00:26:40 ◼   ► there he shows me are you copying in the

00:26:41 ◼   ► back and I get a taste all this great

00:26:42 ◼   ► coffee and then the guys you know is i

00:26:45 ◼   ► think what's the opposite of of a bad

00:26:46 ◼   ► pennies like a good penny just keeps

00:26:48 ◼   ► turning up wherever there's good coffee

00:26:49 ◼   ► turns up again and again and again and

00:26:51 ◼   ► it turns out everyone in the world knows

00:26:53 ◼   ► talks what is the opposite of event and

00:26:56 ◼   ► I don't know it's a great pennies shiny

00:26:58 ◼   ► penny right but very nice guy and he's

00:27:00 ◼   ► always had the same commitment to it and

00:27:02 ◼   ► you know it's coffee is a great story

00:27:04 ◼   ► because it spans the globe and it spans

00:27:06 ◼   ► this huge stretch of modern civilization

00:27:08 ◼   ► and you can just become such a fetishist

00:27:11 ◼   ► about every

00:27:12 ◼   ► little blah no granny whatever or you

00:27:14 ◼   ► can just drink it could cup of coffee

00:27:15 ◼   ► but I like the good cup of coffee part

00:27:18 ◼   ► better ma'am I you know speaking of good

00:27:21 ◼   ► pens your sort of a good penny and that

00:27:23 ◼   ► you you've had a crazy variety that

00:27:28 ◼   ► you've written for it an ordinate and on

00:27:30 ◼   ► a regular basis and inordinately wide

00:27:32 ◼   ► variety of publications you just

00:27:34 ◼   ► mentioned in New York Times you're now a

00:27:36 ◼   ► regular contributor to The Economist ah

00:27:39 ◼   ► you have been associated with tidbits as

00:27:43 ◼   ► long as I can remember I ever since Adam

00:27:46 ◼   ► and Tommy expanded beyond just adamant

00:27:49 ◼   ► on yeah i mean i remember you your

00:27:50 ◼   ► byline being in 10 minutes

00:27:52 ◼   ► how long have been writing for typic

00:27:53 ◼   ► since like 1994 yeah that's what I mean

00:27:57 ◼   ► having i sent them a letter I sent them

00:27:58 ◼   ► a letter once they ran and I was so

00:28:00 ◼   ► excited I started writing for them after

00:28:01 ◼   ► they lived in seattle when I first moved

00:28:03 ◼   ► out here in that 93 i mean we're talking

00:28:05 ◼   ► about before the web i mean we're

00:28:08 ◼   ► talking about when it when a lot of

00:28:10 ◼   ► people were probably still reading

00:28:11 ◼   ► tidbits as the a weekly HyperCard stack

00:28:13 ◼   ► those were the days of tidbits is now we

00:28:16 ◼   ► believe it's the longest continuously

00:28:18 ◼   ► published publication on the internet

00:28:20 ◼   ► because there's an irish newsletter that

00:28:22 ◼   ► stopped publication we think a quick now

00:28:24 ◼   ► are the last one since like 99 because

00:28:27 ◼   ► there was one they've been watching

00:28:28 ◼   ► there was one in China that fell away so

00:28:30 ◼   ► in terms of actually coming out on a

00:28:31 ◼   ► regular basis for you know x years i

00:28:35 ◼   ► think we are now the longest which is

00:28:36 ◼   ► which practices and it's astounding

00:28:38 ◼   ► really committed to think that it you

00:28:40 ◼   ► know the the upheaval that it went

00:28:42 ◼   ► through in the first decade uh just in

00:28:45 ◼   ► terms of format you know what is what is

00:28:46 ◼   ► the format for an Internet publication

00:28:49 ◼   ► oh yeah and like dealing with servers an

00:28:51 ◼   ► email an apple you know essentially

00:28:52 ◼   ► almost imploding underneath it and then

00:28:55 ◼   ► coming back and I mean the thing that's

00:28:57 ◼   ► funny so here's the best thing about

00:28:57 ◼   ► Adam and Tanya thanks as as people is

00:29:00 ◼   ► they do a lot of what they do to help

00:29:01 ◼   ► their friends make livings and do

00:29:03 ◼   ► interesting things they're really like

00:29:04 ◼   ► facilitators like they make a great

00:29:06 ◼   ► living with what they're doing they

00:29:07 ◼   ► figured a really good model with the

00:29:08 ◼   ► ebooks with tidbits and so forth and

00:29:10 ◼   ► they're charming people and great

00:29:12 ◼   ► friends but they also they spend a lot

00:29:14 ◼   ► of their time making sure that other

00:29:16 ◼   ► people they work with have a good

00:29:17 ◼   ► experience and can make a good living

00:29:19 ◼   ► from what they do and it's it's like

00:29:21 ◼   ► they're so non greedy about it's just

00:29:24 ◼   ► delightful

00:29:25 ◼   ► yeah so amazing other publications that

00:29:27 ◼   ► you have been associated you write for

00:29:29 ◼   ► Boing Boing I sorry just a bit right

00:29:32 ◼   ► occasionally Mars tecnica and yeah i got

00:29:35 ◼   ► this funny thing is i like i like people

00:29:37 ◼   ► it's this weird thing I like people and

00:29:38 ◼   ► i've been i started my career because I

00:29:41 ◼   ► was I was actually trained as a graphic

00:29:43 ◼   ► designer first typesetter than a graphic

00:29:45 ◼   ► designer was the career I was going to

00:29:46 ◼   ► go into but it turned out i've always

00:29:48 ◼   ► had an aptitude for computers so I wound

00:29:50 ◼   ► up becoming this guy who's like a

00:29:52 ◼   ► translator like oh you graphic designer

00:29:55 ◼   ► you're trying to use desktop publishing

00:29:56 ◼   ► only explain the steps to get there and

00:29:58 ◼   ► that's just been kind of my career goes

00:30:00 ◼   ► now I mean the Congress I'm the guy

00:30:01 ◼   ► where like we don't understand you know

00:30:04 ◼   ► nobody in house understands or cares

00:30:05 ◼   ► about networking protocols could lend

00:30:08 ◼   ► write something about this and so i'll

00:30:09 ◼   ► write something on the blog or sometimes

00:30:11 ◼   ► I'll pick something about a topic that's

00:30:13 ◼   ► really its they're interested in it but

00:30:15 ◼   ► it's really obscure the staff members or

00:30:17 ◼   ► their science geeks they have PhDs and

00:30:19 ◼   ► physics and economics and everything

00:30:21 ◼   ► else but the technology side they're not

00:30:23 ◼   ► familiar with it but other you know

00:30:24 ◼   ► they're very few programmers in-house

00:30:26 ◼   ► and so forth so I get to be the

00:30:27 ◼   ► explainer of certain aspects of Twinkie

00:30:29 ◼   ► digital things they are two and your

00:30:33 ◼   ► newest gig which is where I guess sort

00:30:36 ◼   ► of where I'm coming with this is you or

00:30:38 ◼   ► I don't forget your title exactly

00:30:39 ◼   ► executive editor executive at your

00:30:41 ◼   ► market when I had some conversations on

00:30:43 ◼   ► the magazine Marco Arment still nascent

00:30:47 ◼   ► I think it's a dead issue number three

00:30:49 ◼   ► is the current issue that's right number

00:30:51 ◼   ► for his next week I which is just an at

00:30:54 ◼   ► will as soon as I saw the announcement

00:30:55 ◼   ► was like God why didn't i wish i had

00:30:57 ◼   ► suggested this because this is such a

00:31:00 ◼   ► perfect match and I'm i want to be able

00:31:02 ◼   ► to take credit for making this happen

00:31:04 ◼   ► this is such a perfect fit

00:31:06 ◼   ► yeah it feels if it's in the Marcos

00:31:08 ◼   ► wheelhouse to where it's like Instapaper

00:31:09 ◼   ► it's like Instapaper except he's making

00:31:12 ◼   ► the articles that you will then read

00:31:13 ◼   ► later

00:31:14 ◼   ► you're such the perfect fit though

00:31:16 ◼   ► because you you know you have such a

00:31:18 ◼   ► variety of interests you know you're not

00:31:20 ◼   ► just you know you used to write up i

00:31:22 ◼   ► think it's past tense i don't think

00:31:24 ◼   ► you'd keep it up and what the what the

00:31:25 ◼   ► Wi-Fi blog

00:31:27 ◼   ► oh yeah that was interesting i spent

00:31:28 ◼   ► like a decade writing your Wi-Fi

00:31:30 ◼   ► networking news which was a blog that

00:31:32 ◼   ► was all

00:31:32 ◼   ► out Wi-Fi you think what the house that

00:31:34 ◼   ► it but it was great it was a decade of

00:31:36 ◼   ► upheaval in the community the community

00:31:39 ◼   ► Wi-Fi and then the all the standards

00:31:41 ◼   ► chain right all the devices and in

00:31:43 ◼   ► compatibilities standards wars and then

00:31:46 ◼   ► then citywide Wi-Fi municipal Wi-Fi and

00:31:49 ◼   ► those who have an end and then what

00:31:51 ◼   ► happened is was very interesting thing I

00:31:52 ◼   ► don't think it was that goes eight years

00:31:55 ◼   ► nine years into it and suddenly all the

00:31:57 ◼   ► interesting Wi-Fi disappeared because it

00:31:58 ◼   ► just started to work and the rise in

00:32:01 ◼   ► good mobile broadband like 3g had no 3g

00:32:04 ◼   ► was suddenly everywhere 4gs standards

00:32:07 ◼   ► that you know hspa+ and some of the

00:32:09 ◼   ► faster 3g stuff was starting to get out

00:32:11 ◼   ► there and LT was on the roadmap and

00:32:13 ◼   ► suddenly people didn't need to know

00:32:15 ◼   ► about Wi-Fi anymore because they could

00:32:16 ◼   ► just connect whenever they needed to and

00:32:18 ◼   ► the whole the traffic just fell out the

00:32:21 ◼   ► bottom and which is fine things have a

00:32:22 ◼   ► lifetime but i was i was sort of sitting

00:32:24 ◼   ► one day I'm like I should stop doing

00:32:26 ◼   ► this because know what's reading it for

00:32:28 ◼   ► it sort of reminds me of a equivalent to

00:32:31 ◼   ► Matt Howie's PVR blog which was wildly

00:32:35 ◼   ► popular actually for a while but then

00:32:37 ◼   ► everybody you know PVR's kind of became

00:32:39 ◼   ► a you know like like like indoor

00:32:43 ◼   ► plumbing

00:32:44 ◼   ► you know like no you know what truly

00:32:46 ◼   ► fascinating and life-changing and I but

00:32:51 ◼   ► then it you know you just sort of

00:32:52 ◼   ► assumed that it's there is no other a

00:32:54 ◼   ► big deal because the implosion of the

00:32:56 ◼   ► gadget blogs to that sort of happens I

00:32:58 ◼   ► mean you still have you know that the

00:32:59 ◼   ► verge is not a gadget blog it's a

00:33:00 ◼   ► general computing thing that's more like

00:33:03 ◼   ► you know macworld plus you know some of

00:33:06 ◼   ► like a hifi stereo publication plus a

00:33:08 ◼   ► business publication or on gizmodo is no

00:33:11 ◼   ► longer exactly a gadget thing neither

00:33:13 ◼   ► isn't gadget they write about all kinds

00:33:15 ◼   ► of stuff and there's a hundred thousand

00:33:17 ◼   ► sites that used to and some still update

00:33:19 ◼   ► things that are about every little gijoe

00:33:21 ◼   ► ah

00:33:21 ◼   ► and I think and that's what happened

00:33:24 ◼   ► Wi-Fi to was like when stuff just works

00:33:26 ◼   ► and there's a sufficient amount of it

00:33:27 ◼   ► and you don't have to make the same

00:33:29 ◼   ► kinds of decisions used to about what

00:33:31 ◼   ► you're going to get then the necessity

00:33:33 ◼   ► of going to site so still people who

00:33:34 ◼   ► obsessively check on every new thing

00:33:36 ◼   ► that's coming out but I think the

00:33:37 ◼   ► lifespan of those is really expired in a

00:33:40 ◼   ► way that they used to capture the

00:33:41 ◼   ► attention like 2003-2006 say

00:33:44 ◼   ► that's the sort of passed by ma'am I I

00:33:47 ◼   ► told him good

00:33:48 ◼   ► yeah that too and yeah it's you know

00:33:51 ◼   ► it's what I've often said the people

00:33:53 ◼   ► that you know for a guy who started

00:33:54 ◼   ► writing about apple and his own site in

00:33:56 ◼   ► 2002 I I always thought if I did I

00:33:59 ◼   ► wouldn't pick a name that had the word

00:34:01 ◼   ► mac in it and you know that was never

00:34:03 ◼   ► really on the table but it really in

00:34:05 ◼   ► hindsight is turned out pretty well

00:34:06 ◼   ► known i think that's the thing i think

00:34:08 ◼   ► by not dumb

00:34:09 ◼   ► the most interesting stuff that happens

00:34:11 ◼   ► now is deliberative and I think you know

00:34:13 ◼   ► the verge still published as a lot of

00:34:14 ◼   ► news but i think you know you want

00:34:16 ◼   ► extreme you have any business insider or

00:34:18 ◼   ► even national weather still there

00:34:20 ◼   ► plowing out as much news is they can all

00:34:21 ◼   ► the time some of its you know I'd say

00:34:23 ◼   ► master likes of mashable Business

00:34:25 ◼   ► Insider let's say none of it's good but

00:34:26 ◼   ► they know they've got a business model

00:34:28 ◼   ► but then you know I've talked to Brian

00:34:30 ◼   ► laminate something for his wire-cutters

00:34:32 ◼   ► site and he's the one of the people that

00:34:33 ◼   ► gizmodo four years really drove that

00:34:36 ◼   ► frenzied pace and now wire cutters like

00:34:38 ◼   ► it's the best stuff like I really

00:34:40 ◼   ► in-depth stuff and it's like he's doing

00:34:41 ◼   ► nothing changes on there from day to day

00:34:44 ◼   ► until we post new i mentioned a couple

00:34:46 ◼   ► episodes ago forget who was on the show

00:34:48 ◼   ► here with me but we were talking about

00:34:49 ◼   ► the wire cutter and what a great site it

00:34:52 ◼   ► is and compare and contrast to consumer

00:34:54 ◼   ► reports which is really really

00:34:56 ◼   ► problematic but they're trying to do the

00:34:58 ◼   ► same thing which is I you need to buy a

00:35:02 ◼   ► new TV

00:35:04 ◼   ► I you just what's the best TV to buy and

00:35:07 ◼   ► you go to the wire cutter and they just

00:35:08 ◼   ► tell you here's the best TV to buy

00:35:10 ◼   ► that's it

00:35:11 ◼   ► let's get this one or if you're you know

00:35:12 ◼   ► it and i'll give you like three options

00:35:14 ◼   ► like he's just the best big TV to buy

00:35:16 ◼   ► here's the best one if you're on a

00:35:17 ◼   ► budget and you know here's the best one

00:35:19 ◼   ► if you want something small TV that's it

00:35:22 ◼   ► and that's all they tell you to do and

00:35:23 ◼   ► then let's give you a link that will

00:35:25 ◼   ► explain their we know maybe why it's

00:35:27 ◼   ► good but that's it there is no like 888

00:35:30 ◼   ► by seven grid of features and check

00:35:33 ◼   ► pluses and minuses and edit its Apple

00:35:37 ◼   ► like in its simplicity but justice but

00:35:38 ◼   ► but I had been a cop with peter rojas he

00:35:41 ◼   ► came through seattle a few months ago

00:35:42 ◼   ► and I've never met him in person but we

00:35:45 ◼   ► had correspondence for years and he

00:35:46 ◼   ► founded on gizmodo and then found it in

00:35:48 ◼   ► gadget

00:35:49 ◼   ► and then founded GD GT and I was a good

00:35:52 ◼   ► and and you know so G so he can say he's

00:35:55 ◼   ► responsible for all the horror right but

00:35:57 ◼   ► but I mean it was with the word it was

00:35:59 ◼   ► different when he was involved money

00:36:00 ◼   ► each time he left the publication's

00:36:03 ◼   ► transformed into something else I think

00:36:04 ◼   ► two and the whole industry changed but

00:36:06 ◼   ► GD GT is its wire cutter like also it's

00:36:09 ◼   ► it's here some really good information

00:36:11 ◼   ► on a focus subject we're not going to

00:36:13 ◼   ► bombard you because I think there's a

00:36:15 ◼   ► limited audience this is what just about

00:36:16 ◼   ► the liveblog things still like you know

00:36:18 ◼   ► the fact that millions of people will

00:36:20 ◼   ► tune in to these liveblog transcripts of

00:36:22 ◼   ► Apple events

00:36:23 ◼   ► what are you going to hear that's live

00:36:25 ◼   ► that's not I never understand that like

00:36:27 ◼   ► why can't you wait and someone writes

00:36:28 ◼   ► analysis or you can watch it yourself

00:36:30 ◼   ► when the video is posted but there are

00:36:32 ◼   ► obviously a lot of people who are

00:36:34 ◼   ► obsessed with the latest newest absolute

00:36:36 ◼   ► the second information and then I think

00:36:39 ◼   ► a much bigger audience it's like just

00:36:41 ◼   ► give me the lay of the land I don't need

00:36:42 ◼   ► to read every last bit give me the

00:36:44 ◼   ► information so i can make a value of

00:36:45 ◼   ► decisions

00:36:46 ◼   ► exactly now i agree that a night and I

00:36:48 ◼   ► also think I i think it should be i try

00:36:54 ◼   ► to do this i always try to keep in mind

00:36:56 ◼   ► with what i do a daring fireball that

00:36:57 ◼   ► obviously there's some people who are

00:36:59 ◼   ► loading the site multiple times

00:37:01 ◼   ► throughout the day but i always have in

00:37:03 ◼   ► my mind somebody who's really busy

00:37:04 ◼   ► hopefully working on some really cool

00:37:07 ◼   ► and they going to let they're going to

00:37:08 ◼   ► load it once at the end of the day just

00:37:10 ◼   ► to see what happened and I want the site

00:37:12 ◼   ► the homepage to breed and make sense and

00:37:15 ◼   ► sort of give you an overview of what you

00:37:17 ◼   ► need to know did you miss anything today

00:37:18 ◼   ► or is it just a bunch of the you know

00:37:21 ◼   ► goofy pictures of cats or something like

00:37:23 ◼   ► that but he's going to use RSS anymore

00:37:25 ◼   ► given RSS reader and I do i do but I

00:37:28 ◼   ► much comparing spiritual you did before

00:37:30 ◼   ► very little twitter is really over taken

00:37:33 ◼   ► it to a large extent I really what I I

00:37:35 ◼   ► there's like a reckoning coming where I

00:37:36 ◼   ► should really I I should wipe out all of

00:37:39 ◼   ► my RSS subscriptions and start over from

00:37:41 ◼   ► scratch and do it in a very different

00:37:43 ◼   ► way where it would be more like here's

00:37:45 ◼   ► the Dozen feeds that i don't i know that

00:37:47 ◼   ► i don't want to miss a thing and no

00:37:49 ◼   ► longer the here's a hundred feeds and

00:37:52 ◼   ► i'm going to skim what's new to see what

00:37:55 ◼   ► jumps out is breaking like twitter has

00:37:57 ◼   ► really overtaken that as the

00:38:00 ◼   ► I just what's going on right now am i

00:38:04 ◼   ► missing something that's breaking and

00:38:06 ◼   ► twitter is an aggregator me it's crowd

00:38:09 ◼   ► its crowd-sourced knowledge and on

00:38:11 ◼   ► average if you follow people i mean it's

00:38:13 ◼   ► sort of funny thing by figuring out who

00:38:15 ◼   ► you follow you only follow people are

00:38:16 ◼   ► interesting you and subscribe to them or

00:38:18 ◼   ► unfollow if they stop being interesting

00:38:20 ◼   ► to you overwhelm you and so who's left

00:38:23 ◼   ► for people who are likely to post things

00:38:24 ◼   ► you're interested in and you can see the

00:38:26 ◼   ► same URL from a bunch of people or the

00:38:28 ◼   ► weekend tweeted that they're interested

00:38:29 ◼   ► in so it's like I don't I i still have

00:38:32 ◼   ► our SSI hundreds of things in there but

00:38:34 ◼   ► a lot of them are like places where

00:38:36 ◼   ► otherwise wouldn't go in there just

00:38:37 ◼   ► obscure enough but i keep unsubscribing

00:38:39 ◼   ► feeds in our sense because i'm like i

00:38:41 ◼   ► don't need the new york times in my RSS

00:38:43 ◼   ► if there's an interesting article I mean

00:38:44 ◼   ► they're going to see it when i visit the

00:38:46 ◼   ► homepage at some point it'll show up 15

00:38:48 ◼   ► times and Twitter

00:38:48 ◼   ► yeah i totally agree it is twitter is

00:38:50 ◼   ► sort of Twitter works that way by doing

00:38:53 ◼   ► and I think that you have to do but you

00:38:55 ◼   ► have to be willing to unfollow the

00:38:57 ◼   ► people you no longer find interesting

00:38:58 ◼   ► you know and don't don't don't think

00:39:01 ◼   ► it's like I i know i don't have a

00:39:03 ◼   ► facebook account that I understand

00:39:05 ◼   ► though that like unfollowing or whatever

00:39:07 ◼   ► they call it somebody on facebook is

00:39:09 ◼   ► considered like rude it is a leg-up you

00:39:13 ◼   ► need something you might take personally

00:39:14 ◼   ► that somebody is no longer friends

00:39:16 ◼   ► friends with you on facebook

00:39:18 ◼   ► whereas to me the following unfollowed

00:39:21 ◼   ► you should never take that personally on

00:39:22 ◼   ► twitter i don't care people on follow me

00:39:24 ◼   ► because I'm tweeting about baseball or

00:39:25 ◼   ► something like that I don't care except

00:39:27 ◼   ► fine come back and haunt you know I

00:39:29 ◼   ► don't people have to tell you people

00:39:30 ◼   ► like I'm gonna follow you because I

00:39:31 ◼   ► don't really care if you're following or

00:39:32 ◼   ► not that's why don't you write whatever

00:39:34 ◼   ► are you a twitter reader or your Twitter

00:39:36 ◼   ► scanner

00:39:38 ◼   ► what's the difference well so people

00:39:40 ◼   ► like my good friend Lex Friedman he

00:39:42 ◼   ► reads twitter he very carefully curates

00:39:45 ◼   ► who he follows so the volume isn't too

00:39:47 ◼   ► high and has to meet me at times because

00:39:49 ◼   ► I go off and I knew I system

00:39:51 ◼   ► I i saw this guy i'm a skimmer I cuz i

00:39:53 ◼   ► have like I followed thousand people and

00:39:55 ◼   ► I dive in and I look I'll scan a little

00:39:57 ◼   ► bit and then

00:39:57 ◼   ► go back to the pit up to the top and

00:39:59 ◼   ► forget about it now and it's in it is

00:40:01 ◼   ► also part of the brilliance of the the

00:40:04 ◼   ► concept of twitter is the you know and

00:40:08 ◼   ► it's just been one of the great examples

00:40:09 ◼   ► in my mind of how not putting a feature

00:40:12 ◼   ► in is design and that's the lack of red

00:40:15 ◼   ► on red status that's a 10 in the early

00:40:18 ◼   ► years in 2006-2007 that the screaming

00:40:22 ◼   ► from people who were you know RSS

00:40:24 ◼   ► addicts who were who wanted red on red

00:40:26 ◼   ► status for tweets was it was cacophonous

00:40:29 ◼   ► and Twitter you know didn't ignore they

00:40:32 ◼   ► were like no that's actually the point

00:40:34 ◼   ► is not to be have red on red you're not

00:40:36 ◼   ► supposed to see all the tweets you just

00:40:38 ◼   ► take a look at what's going on now and

00:40:40 ◼   ► scroll back as you know couple minutes

00:40:42 ◼   ► if you want and if you really want to

00:40:44 ◼   ► see them all that's up to you and you'd

00:40:46 ◼   ► keep scrolling down the timeline until

00:40:47 ◼   ► you see the one that you know you saw

00:40:49 ◼   ► last night but we're not going to keep

00:40:50 ◼   ► track of that for you because we don't

00:40:52 ◼   ► want to encourage that behavior you run

00:40:54 ◼   ► a pole sometime I just I've asked

00:40:56 ◼   ► occasionally informally and i'm stunned

00:40:58 ◼   ► how many people among my followers say i

00:41:01 ◼   ► read twitter i'm like oh I put it i

00:41:03 ◼   ► think that you know there's a little bit

00:41:04 ◼   ► of OCD there may be that when you and I

00:41:08 ◼   ► you know I have that to some extent or

00:41:10 ◼   ► unread counts do make me anxious

00:41:12 ◼   ► yeah so people are like they don't they

00:41:13 ◼   ► can't just go to the top ignore that

00:41:15 ◼   ► they might miss something I mean the

00:41:16 ◼   ► internet is all about the internets

00:41:18 ◼   ► motto is you might miss something right

00:41:20 ◼   ► on i do read all of my mentions maybe

00:41:24 ◼   ► not religiously i mean i might be some

00:41:25 ◼   ► days where I'm busy or if I'm offline

00:41:27 ◼   ► for most of the day for travel or

00:41:29 ◼   ► something like that that I I won't but

00:41:32 ◼   ► in general you could there's a very high

00:41:34 ◼   ► chance that on a given day any of mine

00:41:37 ◼   ► I'm gonna read all of my mentions and

00:41:39 ◼   ► they're certainly far more voluminous

00:41:40 ◼   ► than a typical twitter user but it's

00:41:42 ◼   ► actually not that hard to keep up with

00:41:44 ◼   ► way easier than keeping up with email

00:41:47 ◼   ► yeah and I think about dimensions are

00:41:48 ◼   ► are more like someone I mean it's like

00:41:50 ◼   ► an email replacements 140-character

00:41:52 ◼   ► email replacement someone bothers to do

00:41:53 ◼   ► that i feel like i should respond to

00:41:55 ◼   ► them or acknowledge it because otherwise

00:41:57 ◼   ► it's rude

00:41:58 ◼   ► I mean you've got a high asymmetry to

00:41:59 ◼   ► that's the thing is you must get a lot

00:42:00 ◼   ► of talk i have interesting conversations

00:42:02 ◼   ► with people about the scale of Twitter

00:42:04 ◼   ► from you know thousand followers to

00:42:06 ◼   ► 10,000 sort of exponential thing up the

00:42:08 ◼   ► people with you know several million and

00:42:10 ◼   ► it's fascinating how variable the

00:42:13 ◼   ► interaction can be some people with very

00:42:14 ◼   ► few followers spend all their time and

00:42:16 ◼   ► mention land and others with millions of

00:42:18 ◼   ► followers people either to count or they

00:42:20 ◼   ► just say like hey you're great but

00:42:22 ◼   ► there's no communication right now i

00:42:25 ◼   ► find it to just be super efficient and

00:42:27 ◼   ► it it forces people who want to contact

00:42:30 ◼   ► me to be brief

00:42:32 ◼   ► yeah it's right it's in and in general

00:42:35 ◼   ► if you can keep your emails to within

00:42:37 ◼   ► the general length of a tweet it's a lot

00:42:39 ◼   ► more likely that i'm going to read it

00:42:41 ◼   ► and reply but the interaction is so much

00:42:44 ◼   ► easier because going through email you

00:42:47 ◼   ► have to select it and then it opens and

00:42:50 ◼   ► it's just the whole thing if you just

00:42:52 ◼   ► want to bring a link to my attention

00:42:54 ◼   ► like hey I I can't believe grouper

00:42:56 ◼   ► hasn't link to this yet this is so

00:42:58 ◼   ► obviously daring fireball material I it

00:43:01 ◼   ► is way more likely that i will see it if

00:43:02 ◼   ► you tweet to me then if you email it to

00:43:05 ◼   ► me and I don't you know because it's

00:43:08 ◼   ► it's just an easier work fly just have

00:43:10 ◼   ► to scroll through a list and eyeball

00:43:12 ◼   ► them as opposed to clicking down through

00:43:13 ◼   ► a list in and out in and out in and out

00:43:15 ◼   ► well attention is a precious commodity I

00:43:17 ◼   ► keep thinking like attention is the one

00:43:19 ◼   ► thing you can't get more of you can't

00:43:20 ◼   ► build more of it you can you have to a

00:43:23 ◼   ► lot it in its it's you know that's what

00:43:25 ◼   ► facebook is trying to buy our attention

00:43:26 ◼   ► and sell it to people and the I all this

00:43:31 ◼   ► is another call back when this is the

00:43:32 ◼   ► idea behind marcos the magazine is that

00:43:35 ◼   ► he's trying to not overwhelm people and

00:43:37 ◼   ► it seems sort of philosophy with

00:43:38 ◼   ► instapaper to is that it's you want to

00:43:40 ◼   ► read it you can do it later out of the

00:43:41 ◼   ► flow of your right of your so the

00:43:43 ◼   ► maelstrom of all the stuff that's coming

00:43:45 ◼   ► through and I think that's one of the

00:43:47 ◼   ► guiding things behind the magazine is

00:43:48 ◼   ► like interesting stuff that you're not

00:43:50 ◼   ► necessarily going to find everywhere

00:43:52 ◼   ► else and just enough you know it's in

00:43:54 ◼   ► magazines always curation but it's just

00:43:56 ◼   ► enough that it'll be interesting enough

00:43:58 ◼   ► to read every issue but you won't feel

00:43:59 ◼   ► like oh god I mean running for the

00:44:01 ◼   ► Economist that's the thing i always here

00:44:03 ◼   ► is I know plenty of people who read it

00:44:04 ◼   ► but they think of it sometimes homework

00:44:06 ◼   ► they have the issues piled up there

00:44:08 ◼   ► again you don't have to read everything

00:44:09 ◼   ► you can throw issues into the recycling

00:44:11 ◼   ► but people look at it as it's this is

00:44:14 ◼   ► something I'm supposed to do or they

00:44:15 ◼   ► enjoy it too and they make the time

00:44:17 ◼   ► for that but the economy I don't have

00:44:19 ◼   ► time to read the comments every week I

00:44:20 ◼   ► try to be a good hunk of it but I you

00:44:21 ◼   ► know I feel like that I I don't have an

00:44:24 ◼   ► economist subscription but i do have I

00:44:26 ◼   ► do subscribe to The New Yorker and it i

00:44:28 ◼   ► feel that exact same way sometimes I

00:44:30 ◼   ► come I come downstairs and look in the

00:44:32 ◼   ► mail and there's a new issue of The New

00:44:34 ◼   ► Yorker and I can't believe it because it

00:44:35 ◼   ► seems like it seems like the other one

00:44:37 ◼   ► just came yesterday I and i would have

00:44:40 ◼   ► to say that the number one reason i'm

00:44:41 ◼   ► not a subscriber to the economist is

00:44:43 ◼   ► simply because of how agitated i am by

00:44:45 ◼   ► the gigantic pile of New Yorkers in my

00:44:47 ◼   ► office i got the new yorker and the

00:44:49 ◼   ► economist I I'm not sure that's a

00:44:50 ◼   ► winning strategy for me I should

00:44:52 ◼   ► probably settle down but you know

00:44:53 ◼   ► there's always it's like there's always

00:44:55 ◼   ► a long feature the new yorker that I

00:44:57 ◼   ► that I love I mean the one thing that

00:44:59 ◼   ► the reason I got into the magazine by

00:45:00 ◼   ► the way the reason I pitched Marco on

00:45:02 ◼   ► being the editor is because I mean a I

00:45:05 ◼   ► knew he's a he's a technology guy is

00:45:06 ◼   ► also a good editor i like how we headed

00:45:08 ◼   ► to the first two issues very much but

00:45:10 ◼   ► you know there's this list of things he

00:45:11 ◼   ► can do and the stuff is able to offload

00:45:13 ◼   ► a whole pile of stuff onto me so we can

00:45:16 ◼   ► focus on the areas that he really likes

00:45:18 ◼   ► to spend time but the the thing that

00:45:20 ◼   ► appealed to me was his view of what the

00:45:24 ◼   ► magazine is there's nothing like that

00:45:26 ◼   ► right now you can't find a publication

00:45:29 ◼   ► that wants to run articles that are of

00:45:31 ◼   ► interest to people interested in

00:45:32 ◼   ► technology that are either about

00:45:34 ◼   ► technology or are made about medical

00:45:36 ◼   ► technology the new yorker doesn't really

00:45:38 ◼   ► run stories that are of interest to

00:45:40 ◼   ► people who know something about

00:45:41 ◼   ► technology know even when they're about

00:45:44 ◼   ► it so I like the idea that we're going

00:45:45 ◼   ► to have things that are have a human

00:45:47 ◼   ► focus you know they might be about like

00:45:49 ◼   ► you know Lexus the Lexus references

00:45:50 ◼   ► article and wet shaving or Dan Moore and

00:45:52 ◼   ► I'm making tea that there are things

00:45:54 ◼   ► that if you like tech you're going to

00:45:55 ◼   ► like to hear about things associated

00:45:57 ◼   ► with it I've got a friend who'd as a

00:45:59 ◼   ► letterpress guy and his beautiful writer

00:46:02 ◼   ► I want him to write about what that

00:46:03 ◼   ► means because people who were involved

00:46:05 ◼   ► in electronics don't necessarily know

00:46:08 ◼   ► the joint interesting sort of the

00:46:10 ◼   ► trickiness of letterpress all I am so

00:46:12 ◼   ► good at letterpress it is unbelievable

00:46:14 ◼   ► that fat letterpress that letter

00:46:17 ◼   ► forehead the inky kind of letter I had a

00:46:19 ◼   ► quick letterpress I I can't I've mice

00:46:22 ◼   ► win rate was about 5% really i would

00:46:25 ◼   ► play now maybe i'm playing its people

00:46:27 ◼   ► too hard we should find easier players

00:46:28 ◼   ► maybe

00:46:29 ◼   ► all the people i know are much better

00:46:32 ◼   ► wordy who did who did you play who'd you

00:46:34 ◼   ► find difficult we never play ever I

00:46:36 ◼   ► never end up playing everybody I'd like

00:46:39 ◼   ► basically the macworld editorial staff

00:46:41 ◼   ► among other people and some other

00:46:42 ◼   ► friends and it's funny I know a million

00:46:44 ◼   ► words I've had rounds where I was

00:46:46 ◼   ► playing with the friend Sarah and she

00:46:48 ◼   ► wrote a poem out of the word em up with

00:46:50 ◼   ► because we have this great list of

00:46:52 ◼   ► things including some very dirty ones

00:46:54 ◼   ► the middle of the dirty words and I and

00:46:57 ◼   ► but I couldn't win i just i don't have

00:46:59 ◼   ► the strategy for to have the words but i

00:47:00 ◼   ► seem to like and I played I don't know

00:47:02 ◼   ► about 60 games and i won like five of

00:47:05 ◼   ► them and I thought this is probably not

00:47:06 ◼   ► my game

00:47:07 ◼   ► maybe i'll come back to it but it's hard

00:47:09 ◼   ► to always lose a game in the early part

00:47:11 ◼   ► of the game being able to find the

00:47:12 ◼   ► biggest words is the best skill but once

00:47:15 ◼   ► you get to the middle of the game it's

00:47:16 ◼   ► it's all strategy and and you can win

00:47:19 ◼   ► i'm not good at finding it

00:47:21 ◼   ► wow that's a great word words i'm i'm

00:47:24 ◼   ► most of my words are like third grade

00:47:26 ◼   ► words but they're strategically placed

00:47:29 ◼   ► yes well I've seen some of your word

00:47:32 ◼   ► list so i posted on the Twitter yeah i

00:47:35 ◼   ► do we know the words a lot of

00:47:37 ◼   ► letterpress but I didn't just back to

00:47:41 ◼   ► the magazine

00:47:42 ◼   ► here's the thing is it's right the thing

00:47:43 ◼   ► that it that makes you such a great fit

00:47:45 ◼   ► and it fits with this show that you're

00:47:47 ◼   ► talking about doing which is a you know

00:47:50 ◼   ► just the idea of how disintermediated

00:47:53 ◼   ► can you get and just go back to the

00:47:55 ◼   ► simplest thing economically that'll work

00:47:58 ◼   ► and look at the magazine me now

00:47:59 ◼   ► everybody knows the did it gets a little

00:48:02 ◼   ► complex here because the name of the

00:48:03 ◼   ► magazine we're talking about is the

00:48:05 ◼   ► magazine

00:48:05 ◼   ► no I that make it more confusing

00:48:07 ◼   ► overtime but the magazine industry in

00:48:10 ◼   ► general is is widely regarded as being

00:48:12 ◼   ► in a period of upheaval and that this

00:48:14 ◼   ► you know it could be on the verge of

00:48:17 ◼   ► collapse and that there's you know

00:48:18 ◼   ► there's certain big big ones that are

00:48:21 ◼   ► probably going to do just fine just

00:48:22 ◼   ► because they're you know the economist

00:48:24 ◼   ► in The New Yorker certainly right there

00:48:25 ◼   ► among them because of the quality of

00:48:27 ◼   ► them in the New Yorkers mostly been

00:48:29 ◼   ► operated a loss for most of its history

00:48:31 ◼   ► i'm not sure if its profit moment but it

00:48:33 ◼   ► is almost always been operated a lost is

00:48:35 ◼   ► the fasting part but people who run

00:48:37 ◼   ► including sign of house

00:48:39 ◼   ► now for the last six decades they loved

00:48:41 ◼   ► it so much they just they keep it

00:48:43 ◼   ► running

00:48:43 ◼   ► I'm the economist i would hope just by

00:48:46 ◼   ► the title is is that ok that's good i

00:48:49 ◼   ► think they've doubled their circulated

00:48:51 ◼   ► in the last 10 years ago they took away

00:48:52 ◼   ► Time and Newsweek decided that stupid

00:48:54 ◼   ► was better than smart right so they went

00:48:55 ◼   ► stupid I mean time was thing that i read

00:48:57 ◼   ► as a kid when you're like a newsweek was

00:48:59 ◼   ► a slightly easier version of it but I

00:49:01 ◼   ► wasn't bad and US News and World Report

00:49:03 ◼   ► I mean that was often has incredibly

00:49:05 ◼   ► good stuff in it and you know lots of

00:49:08 ◼   ► publications like that now you point out

00:49:09 ◼   ► like the Atlantic and Harper's as the

00:49:12 ◼   ► ex-employers along with the new yorker

00:49:14 ◼   ► of a certain kind of style but for

00:49:15 ◼   ► Newsweek like what you read in America

00:49:17 ◼   ► that's you know so 2 times we said the

00:49:20 ◼   ► stupid or the better the more black

00:49:21 ◼   ► people we are without forgetting their

00:49:23 ◼   ► news organizations could and the cons

00:49:25 ◼   ► picked up all the subscribers you wanted

00:49:26 ◼   ► to read something with words of three or

00:49:28 ◼   ► more syllables and occasionally and you

00:49:30 ◼   ► know the scope of the magazine at least

00:49:32 ◼   ► right now is less than the scope of

00:49:34 ◼   ► those other magazines for talking right

00:49:37 ◼   ► now so far three issues it's about i

00:49:39 ◼   ► think it's four or five articles per

00:49:42 ◼   ► issue articles or somewhere around

00:49:44 ◼   ► thousand to 1500 words that seems to

00:49:48 ◼   ► mean I don't know that's right in the I

00:49:49 ◼   ► mean the thing is this is where so this

00:49:51 ◼   ► podcast I'm going to do which is

00:49:52 ◼   ► tentatively titled the disruptors that

00:49:54 ◼   ► the notion is that like we've had tools

00:49:56 ◼   ► to create stuff for decades now you know

00:49:58 ◼   ► i was involved in early desktop

00:49:59 ◼   ► publishing audio came after that you

00:50:02 ◼   ► know all the digital tools in there to

00:50:03 ◼   ► make things and now we're now your

00:50:04 ◼   ► digital tools that let you control make

00:50:06 ◼   ► 3d objects and cnc routers and and you

00:50:09 ◼   ► can get a 3d printer in your house for a

00:50:11 ◼   ► thousand bucks or less much last season

00:50:13 ◼   ► so we're at the revolution where you can

00:50:15 ◼   ► have all the digital tools you need to

00:50:16 ◼   ► create stuff and the next wave is

00:50:18 ◼   ► funding disputed production

00:50:21 ◼   ► manufacturing distribution and that's

00:50:23 ◼   ► where I keep seeing things like the

00:50:24 ◼   ► magazine fits in that beautiful it's

00:50:26 ◼   ► like make you still you have to be in

00:50:28 ◼   ► bed with Apple they're taking a

00:50:29 ◼   ► 30-percent cut their your distribution

00:50:31 ◼   ► channel but you if you have an audience

00:50:34 ◼   ► you're not mr. mediated by it gatekeeper

00:50:37 ◼   ► that says you're not allowed to reach

00:50:38 ◼   ► that audience Apple would be delighted

00:50:40 ◼   ► for you to have 10 million people paying

00:50:42 ◼   ► you so they get thirty percent of it as

00:50:44 ◼   ► in the past where newsstands new getting

00:50:46 ◼   ► a magazine on a physical newsstand there

00:50:49 ◼   ► is a lot of organ

00:50:50 ◼   ► Skyrim connections in the past there's

00:50:52 ◼   ► these placement fees the reason

00:50:53 ◼   ► magazines a new stands costs like seven

00:50:55 ◼   ► dollars and this yearly subscriptions

00:50:57 ◼   ► like twenty dollars has to do with the

00:50:59 ◼   ► incredible intermediation that adds cost

00:51:02 ◼   ► and so you know you take that one step

00:51:04 ◼   ► further and digital distribution we

00:51:06 ◼   ► don't have to build the distribution

00:51:08 ◼   ► platform just the content and the medium

00:51:10 ◼   ► it's great well the other things too

00:51:12 ◼   ► though that saddle traditional x

00:51:14 ◼   ► long-standing newspapers and magazines

00:51:16 ◼   ► are the incredible bureaucratic bloat of

00:51:21 ◼   ► the organizations that is that took

00:51:23 ◼   ► place over the 20th century where I am I

00:51:26 ◼   ► used to work at the philadelphia

00:51:27 ◼   ► inquirer not on the editorial staff but

00:51:29 ◼   ► in the promotion's Department to an

00:51:31 ◼   ► graphic design work long time ago but I

00:51:34 ◼   ► got to know the company and it was

00:51:35 ◼   ► interesting division of the the

00:51:38 ◼   ► newspaper to work in because it

00:51:40 ◼   ► effectively we did like the house ads

00:51:42 ◼   ► like ads for the inquirer itself or if

00:51:46 ◼   ► the automotive sales department you know

00:51:48 ◼   ► that people who said that the car ads

00:51:50 ◼   ► needed like a flyer or something for

00:51:52 ◼   ► thing that they were doing we would make

00:51:55 ◼   ► that form so i got to know all these

00:51:56 ◼   ► people throughout the company and it was

00:51:58 ◼   ► amazing to me just draw dropping how

00:52:00 ◼   ► many people work there who not not

00:52:04 ◼   ► talking about the newsroom not talking

00:52:05 ◼   ► about reporters photographers editors

00:52:07 ◼   ► people who actually made when I thought

00:52:09 ◼   ► of is the newspaper but everybody else

00:52:10 ◼   ► it was massive and I'm sure that but you

00:52:13 ◼   ► know there's I know in fact I know that

00:52:14 ◼   ► they've had a lot of layoffs and buyouts

00:52:16 ◼   ► and stuff like that in the years since I

00:52:18 ◼   ► work there but it was just jaw-dropping

00:52:21 ◼   ► how many people work they're doing

00:52:23 ◼   ► things other than what I thought of is

00:52:25 ◼   ► the business of doing the newspaper well

00:52:27 ◼   ► it's it's crazy but newspapers used to

00:52:29 ◼   ► make like twenty-five percent profit

00:52:31 ◼   ► margins year after year that was larger

00:52:33 ◼   ► and you can have anything that was so

00:52:35 ◼   ► you could have any number of executives

00:52:36 ◼   ► middle managers members of the family

00:52:38 ◼   ► who were too idiotic to send it to other

00:52:40 ◼   ► companies promotions people layers of

00:52:43 ◼   ► editors reporters your reporters working

00:52:45 ◼   ► and features for three years and

00:52:47 ◼   ► producing 50,000 words at the end and

00:52:50 ◼   ► magazines were I think a little bit more

00:52:52 ◼   ► variable but many had extremely high

00:52:54 ◼   ► profit margins there was no other place

00:52:55 ◼   ► for advertisers together it was a that

00:52:58 ◼   ► in fact was a point of contention when i

00:52:59 ◼   ► was there because it was at the time

00:53:01 ◼   ► it was a knight ridder newspaper The

00:53:03 ◼   ► Inquirer out and daily news that the

00:53:05 ◼   ► Philadelphia Inquirer and Daily News are

00:53:06 ◼   ► jointly published by a flattering to

00:53:09 ◼   ► know what the company's called anymore

00:53:10 ◼   ► but there is one company that publishes

00:53:11 ◼   ► to newspapers and they were owned by

00:53:15 ◼   ► knight ridder and knight ridder

00:53:17 ◼   ► considered at the time is like the mid

00:53:19 ◼   ► to late nineties their flagship

00:53:21 ◼   ► newspaper to be the San Jose Mercury

00:53:23 ◼   ► News I and it was always a little bit of

00:53:26 ◼   ► a point of contention because I think

00:53:28 ◼   ► journalistically the Philadelphia

00:53:29 ◼   ► Inquirer had a better reputation and on

00:53:31 ◼   ► the eighties the Philadelphia Inquirer

00:53:32 ◼   ► one more pull it serves than the New

00:53:34 ◼   ► York Times or The Washington Post I mean

00:53:36 ◼   ► it was truly at a a world-class arguably

00:53:40 ◼   ► maybe in the eighties maybe maybe the

00:53:41 ◼   ► best newspaper in the country in the ath

00:53:43 ◼   ► yeah about the inky and it was so that

00:53:46 ◼   ► was sort of a sore point of contention

00:53:47 ◼   ► but here's why the San Jose Mercury News

00:53:49 ◼   ► was considered the flagship of nitrate

00:53:51 ◼   ► and had a higher profit margin it was up

00:53:53 ◼   ► in the higher twenties and the enquirer

00:53:54 ◼   ► floated around 20 and I like nineteen

00:53:57 ◼   ► percent was considered bad and 20 21 was

00:53:59 ◼   ► a good core but that's sad days of 19

00:54:01 ◼   ► right but that was it i mean there would

00:54:03 ◼   ► be like a quarter like 1997 one of the

00:54:05 ◼   ► quarters it came in and it was nineteen

00:54:07 ◼   ► percent profit margins and it was like

00:54:09 ◼   ► who

00:54:09 ◼   ► maybe they're going to have buyouts and

00:54:11 ◼   ► here's the thing and this is of course

00:54:12 ◼   ► the time when you still have the union's

00:54:15 ◼   ► stranglehold rightly or wrongly I mean

00:54:17 ◼   ► I'm not trying to be anti-union but it's

00:54:18 ◼   ► like you had i know i gotta tell you I

00:54:20 ◼   ► was a typesetter strange the types are

00:54:22 ◼   ► never worked in newspapers but I work

00:54:23 ◼   ► with older typesetters and work with all

00:54:25 ◼   ► these people in the printing industry

00:54:26 ◼   ► and they always had the story in the

00:54:28 ◼   ► newspaper printing plants to be the guy

00:54:29 ◼   ► who is like the line type operator and

00:54:31 ◼   ► the Linotype machines that were taken

00:54:33 ◼   ► out 20 years before and he's been

00:54:34 ◼   ► drawing a salary for 20 years the guy

00:54:36 ◼   ► who you know was the LED polar or

00:54:38 ◼   ► whatever like all these jobs and there's

00:54:40 ◼   ► the guy and then lots of plants were so

00:54:42 ◼   ► Union run that there is like a big stop

00:54:44 ◼   ► button management roles but came in they

00:54:46 ◼   ► would hit the stop button stop the

00:54:47 ◼   ► presses until management left like that

00:54:49 ◼   ► was there right

00:54:50 ◼   ► and so you had even with incredibly

00:54:52 ◼   ► bloated inefficient printing plants that

00:54:54 ◼   ► were padded with all these people who

00:54:56 ◼   ► did nothing and all these extraneous

00:54:58 ◼   ► employees and union benefits and

00:55:00 ◼   ► everything else even with that they're

00:55:01 ◼   ► getting twenty and twenty-five percent

00:55:03 ◼   ► profit margin right and it so what I

00:55:06 ◼   ► love about something like the magazine

00:55:08 ◼   ► is that the magazine is to me i have

00:55:11 ◼   ► always seemed like what I do a daring

00:55:12 ◼   ► fireball is being a reset button on

00:55:14 ◼   ► of what would it take to set up a new

00:55:18 ◼   ► business that is sustainable and the

00:55:21 ◼   ► employee count is 1 me and I'm a little

00:55:24 ◼   ► lucky there because i have a computer

00:55:25 ◼   ► science degree and I used to do web

00:55:27 ◼   ► programming and so in terms of actual

00:55:29 ◼   ► and there really isn't day the day

00:55:31 ◼   ► there's not much web mercury I need to

00:55:33 ◼   ► do to keep it going but i did get to I

00:55:35 ◼   ► in its early days you know I could set

00:55:37 ◼   ► everything up i could move servers i can

00:55:38 ◼   ► do stuff like that by myself if there is

00:55:40 ◼   ► a problem i can ssh into the server and

00:55:42 ◼   ► but clumsily full around and see if you

00:55:45 ◼   ► know what the hell's going on here so

00:55:48 ◼   ► it's a little easier to be a one-man

00:55:49 ◼   ► show or at least starting 10 years ago

00:55:51 ◼   ► with a technical background today I

00:55:53 ◼   ► think it's easy with with you know

00:55:55 ◼   ► things like Tumblr and square space and

00:55:58 ◼   ► the ways that you know the wordpress

00:56:00 ◼   ► hosting sites wordpress.org and it's

00:56:02 ◼   ► really easy for someone who doesn't have

00:56:04 ◼   ► a technical background to do the same

00:56:05 ◼   ► thing I think today wasn't so easy 10

00:56:07 ◼   ► years ago

00:56:08 ◼   ► yeah it was kinda cool that with the

00:56:10 ◼   ► magazine's he's an iOS programmer and he

00:56:12 ◼   ► spent you know nice is he can just make

00:56:14 ◼   ► an iOS app it's not just make but you

00:56:17 ◼   ► know it's it's some amount of effort

00:56:19 ◼   ► that he knows what it takes to do it and

00:56:21 ◼   ► can replicate it and it's kind of the

00:56:23 ◼   ► equivalent of like okay how do i set up

00:56:24 ◼   ► an apache server in 1997 right exactly

00:56:27 ◼   ► well any other thing that he has it's a

00:56:28 ◼   ► nice advantage to is with instapaper

00:56:31 ◼   ► under his belt and with a happy fairly

00:56:35 ◼   ► large customer base he kind of knows

00:56:37 ◼   ► what people like experience-wise I you

00:56:42 ◼   ► know what I want in an app that they're

00:56:44 ◼   ► going to a reading experience on these

00:56:46 ◼   ► handful of devices ipads iphones what

00:56:51 ◼   ► are they gonna do what works what is

00:56:53 ◼   ► what did they click on what are they

00:56:54 ◼   ► like

00:56:55 ◼   ► so he was able to build that and that's

00:56:57 ◼   ► a huge advantage on but then

00:57:00 ◼   ► fundamentally just economically it it's

00:57:02 ◼   ► so simple you just hit the reset button

00:57:04 ◼   ► start from nothing

00:57:05 ◼   ► okay now you've got ya a two-dollar

00:57:08 ◼   ► subscription per month you get two

00:57:11 ◼   ► issues per month and with you know ten

00:57:15 ◼   ► twenty thousand subscribers all of a

00:57:17 ◼   ► sudden or whatever the numbers you know

00:57:19 ◼   ► just throwing out numbers like that i

00:57:21 ◼   ► actually don't know but you know it's

00:57:23 ◼   ► obviously hit a point though where with

00:57:24 ◼   ► X thousands of dollars a month you

00:57:27 ◼   ► can hey 45 writers for an issue a nice

00:57:32 ◼   ► you know industry competitive amount for

00:57:35 ◼   ► the articles you can pay an editor and

00:57:38 ◼   ► you can have money left over for profit

00:57:41 ◼   ► for the publication

00:57:43 ◼   ► yeah and that's what house even getting

00:57:45 ◼   ► into advertising it happen is you

00:57:47 ◼   ► haven't even started and that's apple

00:57:49 ◼   ► thing thirty percent off the top to

00:57:50 ◼   ► write and bully for them in so yeah

00:57:52 ◼   ► that's the that's the thing is when

00:57:53 ◼   ► Marcus put out some numbers but you know

00:57:56 ◼   ► he said after the first issue posts me

00:57:58 ◼   ► to look you know this is becoming

00:57:59 ◼   ► sustainable venture he's paying nearly

00:58:01 ◼   ► magazine rates for writing I i was

00:58:03 ◼   ► surprised and pleased what he wants

00:58:05 ◼   ► offering this is my i'm going to be you

00:58:08 ◼   ► know

00:58:08 ◼   ► Candyman here this next year like I'm so

00:58:10 ◼   ► excited about the amount of money i'm

00:58:12 ◼   ► going to be able to pay other people for

00:58:13 ◼   ► good writing is actually more exciting

00:58:15 ◼   ► to me then whatever money I make from

00:58:17 ◼   ► working on it because there's such a

00:58:18 ◼   ► dearth of opportunities for people to

00:58:20 ◼   ► both be published and to be paid an

00:58:23 ◼   ► appropriate livable like just even

00:58:26 ◼   ► livable wages not he's not paying a wage

00:58:28 ◼   ► that means that people can make two

00:58:29 ◼   ► hundred thousand dollars a year if they

00:58:31 ◼   ► wrote full-time for he's paying wages in

00:58:32 ◼   ► these people can actually live a

00:58:34 ◼   ► probably lower to middle class existence

00:58:36 ◼   ► which is where we've gotten writing I i

00:58:38 ◼   ► got paid fifty cents of word by the new

00:58:40 ◼   ► york times in 1998 and and then many

00:58:42 ◼   ► years later too although they changed a

00:58:43 ◼   ► bit

00:58:44 ◼   ► I was told by friends that the New York

00:58:46 ◼   ► Times paid fifty cents a word in 1970

00:58:48 ◼   ► you know it's really not that it's yes i

00:58:51 ◼   ► would say that's not good because that

00:58:53 ◼   ► Lord article is a lot of work and a lot

00:58:55 ◼   ► of worry come away with him

00:58:57 ◼   ► let me check for 505 yeah so I mean

00:58:59 ◼   ► that's this is part of the thing is like

00:59:01 ◼   ► publications have evolved to a point at

00:59:03 ◼   ► which they believe if you look at the

00:59:05 ◼   ► management structures in the top-heavy

00:59:06 ◼   ► structures of most publications they

00:59:08 ◼   ► believe writers are interchangeable and

00:59:10 ◼   ► uninteresting and I mean writers are

00:59:11 ◼   ► branded or a big brand-name malcolm

00:59:13 ◼   ► gladwell things and not choosing new

00:59:16 ◼   ► yorker of this of all places but there's

00:59:18 ◼   ► this attitude that the content is the

00:59:20 ◼   ► least important part of the packaging

00:59:22 ◼   ► reselling marketing advertising around

00:59:24 ◼   ► it is and this attitude is pervasive and

00:59:27 ◼   ► so Marco i think is coming out of the

00:59:28 ◼   ► way around like if you're starting from

00:59:29 ◼   ► scratch

00:59:30 ◼   ► how would you build a publication date

00:59:32 ◼   ► can be an iOS app it's the easy smallest

00:59:33 ◼   ► lowest-hanging fruit to reach the

00:59:35 ◼   ► largest number of people with the least

00:59:37 ◼   ► amount of effort it's got millions of

00:59:39 ◼   ► people in saudi

00:59:40 ◼   ► already who know and trust in those

00:59:41 ◼   ► products so he doesn't have to worry

00:59:42 ◼   ► about the marketing side of reaching

00:59:45 ◼   ► those people and then he started out

00:59:47 ◼   ► with the idea of going to pay a

00:59:48 ◼   ► competitive rate which we hope will

00:59:50 ◼   ► improve over time and see echoes and so

00:59:53 ◼   ► right now it's sustainable we could do

00:59:54 ◼   ► this forever and I also think you know

00:59:56 ◼   ► compared to traditional magazines which

00:59:59 ◼   ► are so

00:59:59 ◼   ► are so

01:00:00 ◼   ► heavily add based and therefore have

01:00:02 ◼   ► these you know and there's the whole

01:00:04 ◼   ► complex whole situation with advertising

01:00:06 ◼   ► in a magazine like New Yorker Sports

01:00:09 ◼   ► Illustrated or the economist and you

01:00:11 ◼   ► know selling these backpage ads and

01:00:13 ◼   ► inside front cover ads and and then

01:00:15 ◼   ► filling up the back of the book with all

01:00:16 ◼   ► the little lads

01:00:18 ◼   ► its enormous amount of work something

01:00:20 ◼   ► like the magazine can start from scratch

01:00:21 ◼   ► and go with the like less of an

01:00:24 ◼   ► advertising model more of a sponsorship

01:00:26 ◼   ► model and maybe just have one sponsor

01:00:28 ◼   ► per episode

01:00:29 ◼   ► I and and maybe leave money on the table

01:00:33 ◼   ► that way but also not have to have a

01:00:36 ◼   ► full-time ad sales staff don't even have

01:00:39 ◼   ► to have anybody

01:00:39 ◼   ► there's a funny thing that happened at a

01:00:41 ◼   ► time like I can tell you firsthand with

01:00:43 ◼   ► you go with the sponsorship model you

01:00:45 ◼   ► don't need anybody you know you can do

01:00:47 ◼   ► it yourself

01:00:48 ◼   ► yeah this is and that's what is pursued

01:00:49 ◼   ► but there's this funny thing is once you

01:00:51 ◼   ► get to a certain level of scalar

01:00:53 ◼   ► interest you can ask for a premium rate

01:00:56 ◼   ► and not have to be selling a thousand

01:00:58 ◼   ► little pieces and have somebody in

01:00:59 ◼   ► charge of it but I'm you know so mark

01:01:01 ◼   ► and I have this discussion i'll expose

01:01:02 ◼   ► the discussion we have he's talked about

01:01:04 ◼   ► it publicly as he he wants to be every

01:01:05 ◼   ► other weekend he's thought about it

01:01:07 ◼   ► talking publicly about it perhaps being

01:01:08 ◼   ► weekly I would agitate potentially

01:01:11 ◼   ► foregoing weekly at some point although

01:01:12 ◼   ► that'll you know mean a lot different

01:01:14 ◼   ► editorial schedule and so forth

01:01:16 ◼   ► he's worried it'll be too much for

01:01:17 ◼   ► people to read that if he's promising

01:01:19 ◼   ► for 5 articles every two weeks if we

01:01:22 ◼   ► certainly did say just for articles

01:01:24 ◼   ► every week that maybe more attention

01:01:26 ◼   ► than people want to give so with

01:01:27 ◼   ► subscriptions go up because it's a

01:01:29 ◼   ► better value it's more articles or

01:01:31 ◼   ► subscriptions go down because people are

01:01:33 ◼   ► saying all now this has become a chore

01:01:35 ◼   ► so that is even a fascinating position

01:01:37 ◼   ► to be and where you're saying we could

01:01:39 ◼   ► potentially you know either some dollars

01:01:41 ◼   ► which there and could we do double

01:01:43 ◼   ► subscriptions by having more probably

01:01:45 ◼   ► not in that ratio but don't have become

01:01:48 ◼   ► more appealing to people if there's more

01:01:49 ◼   ► content because it's more likely they'll

01:01:51 ◼   ► be interested in something in every

01:01:53 ◼   ► issue right and maybe now if they don't

01:01:55 ◼   ► like the 4 5 articles they have to wait

01:01:57 ◼   ► two weeks and they resubscribe if they

01:01:59 ◼   ► don't like everything or two or three H

01:02:01 ◼   ► so there's that's that's part of what we

01:02:03 ◼   ► have to be much more interesting every

01:02:04 ◼   ► other week

01:02:05 ◼   ► and perhaps weekly as well I like a

01:02:08 ◼   ► problem it is but I think it's uh you

01:02:11 ◼   ► know i-i've when Marco first ran the

01:02:13 ◼   ► idea past me hey do you think this makes

01:02:15 ◼   ► sense i I really you know I just thought

01:02:17 ◼   ► yeah of course it's decided this is I

01:02:20 ◼   ► think it's a sure thing I think it's a

01:02:21 ◼   ► question of how big of a hit is it gonna

01:02:23 ◼   ► be

01:02:23 ◼   ► Edwards that was my spot I thought it

01:02:25 ◼   ► was just a great idea and a great

01:02:27 ◼   ► opportunity and you know i do I I'm

01:02:30 ◼   ► could not be more bullish on that the

01:02:32 ◼   ► prospects going forward of the magazine

01:02:35 ◼   ► it's great now the whole challenge now

01:02:37 ◼   ► is to get interesting people who want to

01:02:38 ◼   ► write you know deep interesting things

01:02:39 ◼   ► that we've had some I mean the early

01:02:41 ◼   ► response was great and I've been going

01:02:42 ◼   ► through a lot of what I did for

01:02:43 ◼   ► marketers go through hundreds of pitches

01:02:45 ◼   ► that we've gotten and we're trying to

01:02:48 ◼   ► find more research to reported stories

01:02:49 ◼   ► because we're paying enough to get

01:02:51 ◼   ► people to go out and do that kind of

01:02:52 ◼   ► thing so we'll have personal essays will

01:02:54 ◼   ► have you know general essays about

01:02:56 ◼   ► things that like you know wet shaving

01:02:58 ◼   ► and cup of tea i keep going back to

01:02:59 ◼   ► things like gina trapani he's great

01:03:01 ◼   ► piece about uh vitro fertilization or

01:03:03 ◼   ► partners such a one of my favorites so

01:03:05 ◼   ► far maybe my favorite maybe my favorite

01:03:06 ◼   ► piece from the magazine so far they're

01:03:08 ◼   ► all my children so I can't play

01:03:09 ◼   ► favorites but it was I think it hit a

01:03:11 ◼   ► perfect balance between personal story

01:03:13 ◼   ► research and technology and and like

01:03:16 ◼   ► this this sort of thing that's totally

01:03:18 ◼   ► Universal the people the feeling you

01:03:19 ◼   ► have when you read it right and so we're

01:03:22 ◼   ► striving for some balance of those

01:03:23 ◼   ► components in every story and so we're

01:03:25 ◼   ► you know we're kind of bunch of really

01:03:26 ◼   ► fun stuff i went to library of

01:03:28 ◼   ► congress's buried archives in Virginia

01:03:32 ◼   ► and I'm writing an account of that of

01:03:34 ◼   ► where they keep their audio-visual

01:03:35 ◼   ► materials and vaults in Culpeper

01:03:38 ◼   ► Virginia so that'll that'll be fun to

01:03:40 ◼   ► write you're going to do it for the

01:03:40 ◼   ► magazine

01:03:41 ◼   ► yes this is I pitched it before I got

01:03:43 ◼   ► the editor yes here's my question for

01:03:45 ◼   ► you and and this is one it is one of the

01:03:47 ◼   ► questions I have written out here for

01:03:48 ◼   ► you is because you have this widely like

01:03:52 ◼   ► i said before you the economist New

01:03:54 ◼   ► Yorker you you pitch you you you still

01:03:56 ◼   ► write freelance for a lot of different

01:03:58 ◼   ► publications now that you're the editor

01:03:59 ◼   ► of the magazine how much how hard is

01:04:03 ◼   ► that going to be for you to decide where

01:04:04 ◼   ► to do your writing like should I still

01:04:06 ◼   ► pitch this 4x publication or should I

01:04:09 ◼   ► just do this for the net for the

01:04:10 ◼   ► magazine well i'm going to be mark i

01:04:13 ◼   ► just talked about this recently in fact

01:04:14 ◼   ► is that not about my side of it by

01:04:16 ◼   ► neither of us want to dominate be

01:04:17 ◼   ► dominant voice and especially every

01:04:19 ◼   ► other week so you are trying to some of

01:04:22 ◼   ► the writers are early issues

01:04:24 ◼   ► we're trying to space them out too so I

01:04:26 ◼   ► i will be surprised if i write more than

01:04:28 ◼   ► every four issues if that just because

01:04:32 ◼   ► then it becomes too much as it should be

01:04:34 ◼   ► a platform for me and marcos written

01:04:36 ◼   ► more the early days because you know

01:04:38 ◼   ► he's trying to set the tone and so forth

01:04:39 ◼   ► and he'll probably be in less than less

01:04:41 ◼   ► to for the same reason why room for more

01:04:43 ◼   ► voices but there is this thing which is

01:04:45 ◼   ► I did this I'd through a just a fluke

01:04:48 ◼   ► interview the fellow who's the head of

01:04:49 ◼   ► the audio section at the library of

01:04:50 ◼   ► congress and he said I've never out you

01:04:52 ◼   ► have time come out to culpeper and I did

01:04:54 ◼   ► I didn't have an outlet for it and the

01:04:57 ◼   ► inside i feel i got from seeing what the

01:04:59 ◼   ► library of congress is doing with our

01:05:00 ◼   ► audio-visual history there's not really

01:05:03 ◼   ► a place that would run an article like

01:05:05 ◼   ► that aspects of it maybe some technical

01:05:08 ◼   ► thing about how you extract sound from

01:05:10 ◼   ► wax cylinders or so I'm gonna peace a

01:05:14 ◼   ► year ago in fact based on some an

01:05:15 ◼   ► interview i did with this fella about

01:05:17 ◼   ► the phonogram right this obscure thing

01:05:19 ◼   ► that prevents audio from being used the

01:05:22 ◼   ► phonogram light right last 200 years

01:05:23 ◼   ► this point everything Edison's first

01:05:25 ◼   ► utterance 'as on a wax cylinder are

01:05:28 ◼   ► still under protection by the photograph

01:05:30 ◼   ► right until 2067 it was this crazy thing

01:05:34 ◼   ► everything in audio no audio will expire

01:05:37 ◼   ► until 2067 from the audio part of the

01:05:40 ◼   ► protection as opposed to the copyright

01:05:41 ◼   ► of the underlying composition or words

01:05:44 ◼   ► and it's this is historically weird

01:05:45 ◼   ► thing to ever think about that for the

01:05:46 ◼   ► Economist it's perfect weekends for the

01:05:48 ◼   ► blog and and it highlights is really odd

01:05:51 ◼   ► aspect of where digital culture collides

01:05:53 ◼   ► with analog culture and to some extent

01:05:55 ◼   ► science so but to find a place where i

01:05:57 ◼   ► can write about you know what's the

01:05:58 ◼   ► what's the inside impact and seeing our

01:06:01 ◼   ► cultural memory in this form and the

01:06:03 ◼   ► restrictions on scanning access to it

01:06:06 ◼   ► because of copyright and other bakeries

01:06:08 ◼   ► there's not really not that we do that

01:06:10 ◼   ► now the Atlantic there are places like

01:06:11 ◼   ► the Atlantic New Yorker Harper's they

01:06:13 ◼   ► might run articles like that but it

01:06:14 ◼   ► would be much bigger this would be

01:06:16 ◼   ► something I'd spend months on the

01:06:18 ◼   ► compensation would probably not good

01:06:20 ◼   ► enough for it I've talked to people

01:06:22 ◼   ► who've written freelance for some of

01:06:23 ◼   ► these publications and the experience is

01:06:25 ◼   ► magnificent but they can't put money on

01:06:28 ◼   ► the table to say the contract