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The Talk Show

4: A Decent Thing That Someone Would Like, with MG Siegler

 

00:00:02   beautiful blues with java i'm going to

00:00:23   wish you a Happy android first day

00:00:25   yes very happy android first day i'm

00:00:28   glad glad the timing of this this

00:00:32   episode surround the betta almost

00:00:34   perfectly it was a movement six months

00:00:37   ago six months ago Eric Schmidt very

00:00:40   smartly made a couple of predictions

00:00:44   yeah LOL so there were actually i think

00:00:47   there were three right he made he

00:00:49   obviously made the one saying that by

00:00:51   this state you know he thought that uh

00:00:53   android-developers a would kind of be

00:00:58   sorry developers in general be focusing

00:01:00   on Android first instead of iOS he he

00:01:05   made the prediction that Google

00:01:07   television or there would be the vast

00:01:09   majority of TV's on the market would be

00:01:12   running some form of google TV and what

00:01:15   was the third thing all the there would

00:01:19   be some sort of killer tablet this was

00:01:20   sort of a weird one because like I think

00:01:22   was translated from some some foreign

00:01:26   press thing but uh something about a

00:01:28   killer tablet coming out around this

00:01:29   time that might be the one that he's

00:01:31   only somewhat often i think i think they

00:01:34   will have something along those lines

00:01:36   that their upcoming io conference but

00:01:39   still still not quite six months a

00:01:41   little bit more than sex once I am I

00:01:43   think that the the TV one in particular

00:01:46   was that not that there would be half

00:01:49   the tvs and use would have google TV but

00:01:51   half the tvs and stores in the US with

00:01:54   right have something I haven't been the

00:01:57   best buy this week i have not been the

00:01:59   best buy but i'm guessing if i did and i

00:02:02   kept a tally and I'm guessing it's a

00:02:04   little under fifty percent yeah they may

00:02:07   have gotten a big shipment in yesterday

00:02:09   I was worried about two weeks ago I i

00:02:11   don't recall seeing any butter

00:02:14   I'm sure I'm sure he had some reason to

00:02:17   suggest that that this was actually

00:02:20   going to happen and i'm sure we'll hear

00:02:21   more about it at Google i/o again

00:02:23   the kids have been complaining about

00:02:25   this show the talk shows usually that it

00:02:27   is rambling and unfocused those are the

00:02:29   adjectives that come up a lot from

00:02:31   people who don't seem to like it i have

00:02:32   i have a bad feeling that this

00:02:34   particular episode maybe the word smug

00:02:36   is gonna come quick

00:02:38   yeah that's a tough as they come up

00:02:41   sometimes I my special guest this week

00:02:43   i'm speaking to mg Siegler of Paris

00:02:47   lemon fame and techcrunch in and various

00:02:50   other endeavors and and I think you and

00:02:55   I have a sort of shared reputation for

00:02:57   4i i'm not sure how to describe it being

00:03:01   poor poor sports right being you know

00:03:06   not acknowledging androids winning ways

00:03:09   many capacity I guess right all right

00:03:13   and you know and I i think that you and

00:03:16   I again this is so far this one of the

00:03:20   talk show it's a lot of people who who

00:03:21   I'm on the same page with but I think

00:03:23   you you approach this the same way I do

00:03:25   and you've done a lot of work with mike

00:03:29   arrington who I have a funny

00:03:30   relationship with but i do think though

00:03:32   that one thing that the three of us

00:03:35   agree on you mean you mike arrington is

00:03:37   that you'd if you're writing about this

00:03:40   stuff just call a spade a spade

00:03:42   alright just lay it out there and I'm

00:03:46   not gonna die i say to people I'm not

00:03:48   going to sit here and bend over

00:03:49   backwards to make somebody who's in

00:03:52   second place seem like they're closer to

00:03:53   first base first place than they really

00:03:55   are just just because somebody thinks

00:03:57   that's the way it should be

00:03:59   yeah totally yeah i totally agree with

00:04:04   that obviously and i think you know when

00:04:07   we do get lumped into this this group

00:04:09   that's some people feel is being unfair

00:04:12   to guess the android camp it's you know

00:04:14   it is just because that's the way we see

00:04:17   it and I think for good reason and i

00:04:18   think you know over time a lot of people

00:04:20   have a have come over to this site as

00:04:22   well but it's just got to be very

00:04:24   frustrating for the

00:04:27   those who see it a different way I guess

00:04:28   and yeah i mean along those lines I

00:04:32   remember what was the thing a few i

00:04:34   guess it was a couple weeks ago where I

00:04:37   think it was david poe grow some kind of

00:04:38   review about some gadget I forget what

00:04:41   it was i he might have been an android

00:04:43   gadget maybe a windows phone thing I

00:04:44   don't really remember what it was but

00:04:46   someone I think it was a BuzzFeed i

00:04:48   think it was Matt you can adjust yeah

00:04:49   I'm apart 44 kinda you know make going

00:04:52   out of his way to make it sound like you

00:04:54   know this is a decent thing that that

00:04:56   someone would like it's not clear that

00:04:57   someone was that someone even exists in

00:05:00   the real world but I those things are

00:05:03   always pretty funny to me right as i

00:05:04   call it grading on a curve

00:05:06   yeah right it's this bending over

00:05:08   backwards to make it seem as though it's

00:05:10   it's more competitive than it really is

00:05:12   because i had the bottom line was it was

00:05:15   the the samsung galaxy player 4.2 I I'd

00:05:21   i think i can do is write it was the

00:05:23   ipod touch competitor right from Samsung

00:05:26   and it does seem like finally five years

00:05:29   later they've got a pretty good version

00:05:32   of the ipod touch meaning in it like it

00:05:34   like a high-end android phone without

00:05:36   the phone but it was really really funny

00:05:40   to read post take on well why would you

00:05:43   buy this instead of the ipod touch and

00:05:45   its really really hard you know that's a

00:05:48   hard thing to come up with ya and I

00:05:50   totally acknowledge that if you work at

00:05:52   samsung or HTC any of these companies

00:05:54   you're in the hole on this but it's it's

00:05:59   like anything where if if you're behind

00:06:01   it's not enough to catch up to who's in

00:06:03   the lead you've got it put something out

00:06:05   there that's that's in some ways ten

00:06:07   times better

00:06:08   yep totally agree thats that's like

00:06:10   that's windows phone right now in a

00:06:11   nutshell to you know it's great it's a

00:06:13   good product but is it ten times better

00:06:15   than than the iphone and you know

00:06:19   certainly not with apps there's a what

00:06:22   did they hit I think they did they hit a

00:06:24   hundred thousand apps or something the

00:06:25   other day but it's like you know that

00:06:29   metric doesn't really matter that much

00:06:30   anymore and I don't even know if they

00:06:32   have a good percentage of the top apps

00:06:34   on there it's just you know who who

00:06:38   knows what those a hundred thousand apps

00:06:40   are

00:06:40   or in it and if they matter to anyone

00:06:41   but you know we'll see what uh what all

00:06:45   this windows 8 stuff if that changes

00:06:47   things at all from from an app

00:06:49   developers perspective

00:06:51   yeah I'm pretty bearish right now on on

00:06:54   windows 8 in general i don't know i

00:06:56   don't know how much you've talked about

00:06:57   it and I've said some things here and

00:06:59   there I think you and I are on the same

00:07:01   page where I just don't understand it

00:07:04   you know i like the metro stuff and i

00:07:06   kinda just wish they were doing that I

00:07:08   know why they're not I mean they have

00:07:09   the legacy and they have all those users

00:07:11   they can't just abandon straight up but

00:07:13   i think it's going to kind of be a

00:07:15   nightmare I've only used prototype stuff

00:07:17   but i think it's going to be a nightmare

00:07:18   trying to reconcile those two completely

00:07:22   different things into some kind of

00:07:23   seamless operating system

00:07:25   yeah I i think the bottom line and I'm

00:07:27   fascinated to see how it turns out

00:07:29   and if anybody can make it work it is

00:07:31   Microsoft because there's one of their

00:07:33   things that they've done right

00:07:34   institutionally for 30 years is they've

00:07:37   done a great job at moving legacy

00:07:40   platforms forward and and moving people

00:07:44   with them so like their transition from

00:07:47   that command line das PC era to the

00:07:51   graphical computing era was it was ugly

00:07:56   and it right involved a bunch of lurches

00:07:58   but they did move the existing

00:08:01   market-leading daus user base to windows

00:08:05   yet slowly but surely over a couple of

00:08:08   releases yep but I think in and doesn't

00:08:11   matter big or small big meaning like

00:08:13   Microsoft Windows you know the biggest

00:08:15   platform in the history of computing or

00:08:18   small something like well I've been

00:08:22   thinking about this a lot is with

00:08:23   panik's new version of coded for the mac

00:08:27   is that where you start with something

00:08:30   in a design forever effects it going

00:08:34   forward and what I mean by that with

00:08:36   koda is koda is designed its for anybody

00:08:39   is no it's like a one window web

00:08:42   development app you can edit HTML you

00:08:45   can edit PHP and other scripting

00:08:48   languages

00:08:49   it as a whole bunch of stuff to make CSS

00:08:51   editing easier it has documentation for

00:08:55   all sorts of web development

00:08:57   technologies like HTML CSS preview

00:09:00   windows and remote connection stuff

00:09:03   which panic specializes in because they

00:09:05   make transmit this great ftps FTP File

00:09:10   Transfer things interact but the main

00:09:11   thing is that it's the main conceit of

00:09:14   coda ever since it came out five years

00:09:16   ago is that it all in one window vs more

00:09:21   traditional apps like say bbedit or even

00:09:24   textmate where it's sort of each text

00:09:28   file is in a window and even in text me

00:09:31   where that it's more little bit more tab

00:09:33   oriented than bbedit it still is a

00:09:35   different paradigm and I think it's

00:09:38   harder for an app like BBM edit to to

00:09:40   move towards something like a one window

00:09:42   development and it would be hard for

00:09:45   Panik to take kota and say well hey some

00:09:49   people want stuff in a whole bunch of

00:09:51   windows

00:09:52   how can we add how can we make an update

00:09:54   Dakota or you can have everything in a

00:09:56   different window like you start with

00:09:57   this design and you're kind of stuck

00:09:59   with and what Apple is done and i think

00:10:03   i think it to me it just clicks and it

00:10:05   makes sense is that they said look

00:10:07   there's a new way to do all this stuff

00:10:08   so we're going to start with a new

00:10:10   platform we're going to sell this thing

00:10:12   this ipad that is like a computer it's

00:10:14   like a laptop more or less but we're not

00:10:17   going to run Mac os10 on it at all

00:10:20   we're not going to use the name

00:10:21   something look like it's going to be all

00:10:24   started over from scratch and it's going

00:10:26   to have all these restrictions and all

00:10:27   these limitations that you're not used

00:10:29   to but because we're starting over it

00:10:32   doesn't feel like we're breaking

00:10:33   anything it's all new ground yeah

00:10:36   whereas with windows 8 I really feel

00:10:38   like as they get closer and closer

00:10:40   people are really running into this but

00:10:42   wait a minute you're going to break all

00:10:43   of this stuff that I'm used to

00:10:45   yeah and that and what's funny the most

00:10:48   funny thing about that is that the way

00:10:49   that they set it up you know what's this

00:10:51   Steven Sinofsky the guys that you know

00:10:53   in charge windows he keeps hurting these

00:10:55   epically long post on the windows blogs

00:10:58   but you know he set up whenever it was

00:11:00   several months ago now that Windows 8 is

00:11:03   all

00:11:03   but no compromises but i think it's like

00:11:06   you can view it both ways either they're

00:11:08   not compromising in that they're there

00:11:10   including everything that everyone could

00:11:13   ever want and is that in it in and of

00:11:15   itself a compromise because they're not

00:11:17   actually giving the best user experience

00:11:18   they're just throwing kinda everything

00:11:20   in there and hoping it all works

00:11:22   together and you know so far the early

00:11:25   reviews of the it was at the release

00:11:28   candidate or whatever just that just

00:11:30   came out have been you know they say

00:11:31   good things in general but switching

00:11:34   between those two different interfaces

00:11:36   is very jarring and and it's going to

00:11:38   confuse the hell out of people right and

00:11:41   the out that I see is with winrt which

00:11:44   is the goofily name right the armed

00:11:46   version

00:11:47   yeah which isn't going to isn't going to

00:11:49   start and we know what r T stands for is

00:11:51   a real time with runtime what is it

00:11:54   we know you know I don't know I think

00:11:57   maybe run time but it's an awful name

00:11:59   that really is yeah yeah but that's the

00:12:02   one we're not going to have the legacy

00:12:04   support they've got right maps in there

00:12:06   like the built-in office apps which

00:12:08   don't really look like metro they look a

00:12:10   little bit more like traditional Windows

00:12:12   but they really are supposedly touch

00:12:14   oriented right and you can't install

00:12:17   traditional windows looking apps on the

00:12:20   getting so there won't be all this weird

00:12:22   context switching yeah and that's that's

00:12:26   great and I you know I know again I know

00:12:29   why they couldn't do that overall just

00:12:33   the sheer numbers that they be leaving

00:12:34   behind and and and risk alienating

00:12:36   completely but you know maybe maybe that

00:12:39   version does better because it's uh it's

00:12:42   kind of fresh and from the ground up but

00:12:44   I don't know but then then it's like

00:12:47   when you go to a store and you want to

00:12:48   buy some kind of Windows machine do you

00:12:50   buy the windows RT one with the armed

00:12:53   ship to you by a similar-looking tablet

00:12:56   device but has an intel chip and so it

00:12:58   runs you know whatever the other flavor

00:13:00   of Windows 8 is that's called it runs on

00:13:02   the the old architecture

00:13:04   it's like I don't know that seems like

00:13:06   just a branding nightmare and a a

00:13:08   consumer nightmare waiting to happen

00:13:11   it really does to me because it seemed

00:13:13   as if it it really doesn't seem

00:13:14   confusing to me if it

00:13:16   typical person just regular non nerve

00:13:18   walks into an apple store that the

00:13:20   difference between a mac and the ipad is

00:13:22   very very different different names

00:13:24   right different interface it it's all

00:13:28   touch

00:13:29   it's just a piece of glass this is super

00:13:30   simple this is the thing I've heard

00:13:32   about and here's the mac which is I

00:13:36   understand even if you never use the mac

00:13:38   surely you've used windows this is

00:13:40   apple's thing that's like a regular pc

00:13:42   with keyboard and windows and the mouse

00:13:44   that you dragged around there's no

00:13:47   confusion nobody's walking out with the

00:13:49   wrong thing whereas I really really

00:13:51   don't understand exactly what you said

00:13:53   is if you go into a store and they have

00:13:56   intel-based windows 8 tablets running

00:13:59   the full version of Windows 8 and arm

00:14:02   tablets that are running when Artie I

00:14:04   really really don't understand how

00:14:05   anybody except true nerds is going to

00:14:10   understand what what the heck the

00:14:11   differences in which one you might want

00:14:13   to buy right and so then Microsoft has

00:14:15   to hope you know that they can open

00:14:17   about a 10,000 more uh windows stores

00:14:20   and they can have their own people

00:14:22   explaining this or the reality of the

00:14:24   situation is that everyone's going to

00:14:25   walk into bestbuy or go on Amazon uh you

00:14:29   know best buy will be people who hit you

00:14:31   know does the the employees working on

00:14:33   Commission who have absolutely no idea

00:14:34   what the difference will be and you know

00:14:37   they just try and sell the most

00:14:38   expensive one and then amazon you know

00:14:41   you're left to fend for yourself and

00:14:43   it's their guy I'm sure they're going to

00:14:44   have you know the typical microsoft

00:14:47   charts to show you know which is which

00:14:50   feature doesn't have which version

00:14:52   doesn't have this feature in which one

00:14:53   doesn't this feature and it's just going

00:14:56   to be heat such such a nightmare i do I

00:14:59   you know it's just like God they should

00:15:00   have just done windows RT the awful name

00:15:04   and everything and just done the tablets

00:15:06   that way and then had a more traditional

00:15:08   version of windows and just kept it

00:15:10   going and and you know hope and and see

00:15:12   what happens that if people move more in

00:15:14   the tablet space which is you know what

00:15:16   of course is happening with Apple where

00:15:18   they can have the two separate tracks

00:15:19   and and there by natural selection kind

00:15:22   of people are are choosing to go with

00:15:24   the ipad more than they have with the

00:15:26   with the mac and so they're just letting

00:15:28   it play out in a natural

00:15:29   way rather than trying to cram things

00:15:30   together right so that you know Apple

00:15:33   calls it back to the mac where they take

00:15:34   these iOS ideas and right put them on

00:15:38   the Mac you know and another example of

00:15:41   what i said before about how where you

00:15:43   start really affects what you can do in

00:15:45   the future going forward I i still think

00:15:47   that full screen mode on Mac os10 is

00:15:50   weird and i just i use it sometimes but

00:15:53   I don't use it nearly as much as I

00:15:54   thought I would when they announced it

00:15:56   and it's because yummy the whole system

00:15:58   is designed on this idea that you're

00:16:02   using these windows on one screen not

00:16:04   full screen apps that

00:16:06   yeah and i totally normal no way to

00:16:09   square that circle smoothly i think it's

00:16:12   you know I use it it seems to be good

00:16:14   for certain things where you need a lot

00:16:16   of screen real estate like I photos a

00:16:18   good example of something that I like

00:16:19   like to use it for and they do some

00:16:22   interesting things that they don't play

00:16:23   up enough because you know who the dual

00:16:25   monitor situation isn't really i guess

00:16:28   probably been a mainstream thing that

00:16:30   you know they they actually do it

00:16:31   smartly where you can do other things

00:16:32   and even though it's a great out area or

00:16:34   whatever you don't make it obvious that

00:16:36   you can do it but you can kinda drag

00:16:38   things over there and and work in that

00:16:40   space as well when you have things full

00:16:42   screen but other other apps don't do

00:16:44   that at all and so it's just kind of

00:16:45   like a wasted space into a monitor thing

00:16:47   I think on the the bigger monitor in

00:16:48   general like that you know the the full

00:16:51   screen apps is often just overkill on a

00:16:53   911 meant an 11-inch macbook air it

00:16:57   could be nice just because that screen

00:16:58   is small but yeah it's really hard that

00:17:01   design problem as opposed to on the ipad

00:17:05   where it just feels utterly natural it

00:17:07   feels like it's just write that

00:17:09   everything is full screen and I think

00:17:10   you know on the other hand it would be

00:17:12   really hard to add multi-application

00:17:14   windows to the iPad because it has

00:17:17   doesn't the whole thing it just wouldn't

00:17:19   would feel weird and that's that's sort

00:17:21   of interesting because it's actually i

00:17:23   don't know if you've had a chance to

00:17:24   play at all i assume not because they

00:17:26   just started coming out with them but

00:17:28   the new version of Chrome OS so they

00:17:30   sent me one of the one of the new

00:17:31   Chromebooks you know to try out right

00:17:33   and the new version of Chrome OS is is

00:17:36   pretty different from the previous

00:17:37   iterations of it I assume you played

00:17:39   with like some iteration yeah we better

00:17:41   see anything

00:17:42   and so the new version is much more

00:17:45   windows or answered then you know the

00:17:47   old version was basically just pretty

00:17:49   much a full screen browser at all times

00:17:51   and it was you know if you could switch

00:17:54   between windows but it would almost be

00:17:55   like like now when i was ten when you

00:17:58   switch when you're doing a full screen

00:17:59   apps and it was kind of weird and now

00:18:02   they're moving back to the window idea

00:18:04   you can have a different there so

00:18:06   browser windows but you can have

00:18:07   different sizes open at the same time

00:18:10   and kind of switch between them and it's

00:18:12   it's fascinating that they are moving

00:18:14   back to that thing and i get i know why

00:18:17   they're doing it because they're trying

00:18:18   to go after the the windows market

00:18:20   itself and no one had any idea how to do

00:18:22   this but uh I don't know if that will

00:18:23   end up working for them or not I think

00:18:25   it's a good idea to try it because no

00:18:26   one was buying chrome OS as it stood so

00:18:29   maybe this is a good idea for them to do

00:18:31   it but they're going in the opposite way

00:18:33   right you know in the bottom line for

00:18:36   the mac users i think with this back to

00:18:38   the mac thing is that it none of it's

00:18:41   really broken their old habits where I

00:18:44   got windows 8 really seems like it's

00:18:46   going to break some habits 01 just

00:18:47   notable example big big glaring

00:18:49   fundamental difference between the mac

00:18:51   and iOS is you just turn your machine on

00:18:55   you've got nothing open you haven't used

00:18:57   any apps

00:18:58   what do you see on the Mac you see a

00:19:00   desktop where you can save files and put

00:19:03   folders and just puts right there and

00:19:05   that's where you know Mac users famously

00:19:07   and I have messy desktops full of files

00:19:09   and folders and shortcuts and you know

00:19:12   whatever they're working on at the

00:19:13   moment and on iOS it's this home screen

00:19:16   you still have a background you have the

00:19:17   desktop picture but it's that's where

00:19:19   your apps are right and Apple added this

00:19:21   back to the mac thing called launch pad

00:19:24   in 10 7 which is sort of like the iOS

00:19:28   launch screen for the mac you all you

00:19:30   see your apps that should be in theory

00:19:36   if they start over from scratch with the

00:19:38   mac today that would be your desktop

00:19:40   launchpad would be your desktop wouldn't

00:19:42   be an app that you launch or mode you

00:19:44   jump to it would just be that would be

00:19:46   your desktop and I think it would be a

00:19:49   lot easier for most users especially

00:19:51   people just come into the mac for the

00:19:52   first time but I don't you think they

00:19:54   can do it because too many people say

00:19:56   files to the desktop and if they

00:19:57   couldn't save file to the desktop they

00:19:58   would go insane

00:19:59   yeah it totally great do you do you end

00:20:02   up using launchpad a lot I you know I

00:20:04   found it first that i didn't use it and

00:20:05   now now I just use it because that's the

00:20:07   way that mac app store apps kinda you

00:20:09   know the easiest way to find them it's

00:20:11   like they're the you know the latest

00:20:13   happens is the one that's that's right

00:20:14   there in that view

00:20:15   do you use it I use it a little bit on

00:20:18   my air which is my secondary machine and

00:20:21   I don't have all the apps that i have

00:20:22   installed yet and so it's a lot cleaner

00:20:25   i only have like two screens of apps on

00:20:26   the air right right on my main desktop

00:20:29   Mac know because it's like I've got like

00:20:32   40 pages of apps and it's there's no way

00:20:35   to find anything and I really love and I

00:20:37   use launch bar and it's I by the time I

00:20:40   even think about opening launchpad

00:20:42   I've already done the command space and

00:20:43   type a few characters of the name of the

00:20:45   app and the captain

00:20:47   yep it's interesting to that chrome OS

00:20:50   that you know going back to that for a

00:20:51   second they also copy that that as well

00:20:53   they have like a launchpad like

00:20:55   functionality now that's kind of one of

00:20:58   the main features to launch their web

00:21:00   apps instead of you know native apps but

00:21:02   ah it's something they copied a little

00:21:04   bit from windows and copied a little bit

00:21:05   from OS 10

00:21:07   ah so it's it's certain music and the

00:21:12   other thing I i'm sort of jumping around

00:21:15   topics here but I want to go back to the

00:21:16   I want to go back to this six-month

00:21:21   prediction about app development on

00:21:23   Android and that Eric Schmidt's

00:21:25   prediction that which I think he meant

00:21:27   that's the thing is that i think he

00:21:28   believed it

00:21:29   yeah totally and your piece on

00:21:32   techcrunch today celebrating android

00:21:34   first day the six-month anniversary you

00:21:37   you specifically mentioned his that the

00:21:41   explanation for why he thought things

00:21:43   were going to change in the next six

00:21:45   months was ice cream sandwich right

00:21:47   which i completely agree is by far and

00:21:49   away the best version of Android ever

00:21:51   it's it's a huge difference and I've

00:21:53   said this before but it to me it's proof

00:21:55   that Matias Duarte I think I'm saying

00:21:58   his name right right is is very talented

00:22:02   I i think that's the one where his his

00:22:05   design sense is sort of been imposed on

00:22:07   Android as a whole and if you use a

00:22:09   nexus

00:22:09   phone it's it's coherent system wide

00:22:12   it's it's very nice you had a good

00:22:13   review of the the new Nexus that runs it

00:22:16   right on and it i think it's a better

00:22:19   system for developers have gotten rid of

00:22:20   these soft buttons if you get a new

00:22:22   phone so that you can have the whole

00:22:24   screen on and so his body his argument

00:22:28   was look ice cream sandwiches great

00:22:30   we're gonna you know that's really

00:22:31   what's going to drive people to to write

00:22:34   for air android first and yet here's the

00:22:37   thing

00:22:38   it's seven months after ice cream

00:22:39   sandwich came out and what's the

00:22:40   percentage of android phones that are

00:22:42   running scripts sandwich set 7.1 percent

00:22:46   according to google themselves you know

00:22:47   there they publish those numbers it's

00:22:49   it's hilarious that you know it's just

00:22:51   pathetic there's no other way to say it

00:22:53   it's a it's so ridiculously seven whip

00:22:56   7.1 percent of android users are using

00:23:01   what you know everyone from eric schmidt

00:23:03   on down considers to be the best version

00:23:05   of Android and there's nothing anyone

00:23:07   can do about it right and he said

00:23:10   specifically at this event we made this

00:23:11   prediction we're making fun of his quote

00:23:13   was with the ice cream sandwich release

00:23:15   our core objective as a company is to

00:23:18   get all of the hardware vendors onto

00:23:20   that platform and I honestly I and i

00:23:23   don't mean this and i really don't mean

00:23:25   it to be making fun of them

00:23:27   I I I think it just shows how Android as

00:23:31   a whole has sort of spun out of their

00:23:33   control

00:23:34   yes as it as a concept it's it's become

00:23:37   something that is obviously they're

00:23:39   still driving that the development of

00:23:41   the new releases but what how it's

00:23:43   actually being used in the real world is

00:23:45   has completely they've lost control of

00:23:48   it right and you talked to people at

00:23:50   Google I've had this discussion so many

00:23:53   times in the past two to three years now

00:23:56   where it's like they always and they you

00:23:59   know they seem to legitimately believed

00:24:02   that that's about to change and I don't

00:24:04   know why they think that I mean that was

00:24:05   part of the reason why you know I before

00:24:08   the post you know making fun of the

00:24:10   six-month claim you know I Provost six

00:24:13   months ago pointing out june six you

00:24:15   know as the day and just saying like you

00:24:18   know we'll revisit it at that time and

00:24:20   you know I just flat-out said like

00:24:22   there's no way this is going to have

00:24:23   and I laid out i think like five or six

00:24:24   reasons why there was no way that that

00:24:27   android development would actually

00:24:28   surpassed iOS development and you know

00:24:32   one of the reasons of of course and the

00:24:34   thing that were you know talking about

00:24:36   right now is that Google cannot get the

00:24:38   OEMs and ore carriers to actually get in

00:24:42   line with doing these the way that doing

00:24:44   these updates the way that that Apple

00:24:46   can with with their partners

00:24:49   yeah i think and i think that there's a

00:24:51   a it's like an institutional confidence

00:24:54   and maybe it serves them well overall

00:24:56   but that there's a sense of where Google

00:24:59   we're doing cool stuff and so of course

00:25:02   people are gonna get on board with what

00:25:04   we want them to get on board with

00:25:05   because of google yeah and then it's I i

00:25:09   actually i think i wrote a post about a

00:25:11   year ago or something that kind of like

00:25:13   they were living in a dream world and of

00:25:14   course that that put everyone on google

00:25:16   side of things in a tizzy because you

00:25:18   know pointing out not only that Android

00:25:20   a with the carrier and OEM relationships

00:25:22   isn't going as a as swimmingly as they

00:25:25   had hope but also the google TV thing

00:25:27   it's like they really thought that they

00:25:28   were going to revolutionize the TV

00:25:30   experience made you know they had all

00:25:32   the executives that they needed to have

00:25:33   I think was was atlanta two years ago at

00:25:36   Google i/o I think they had like Howard

00:25:37   Stringer up there and they had everyone

00:25:40   and it was and it was you know sounding

00:25:42   like it was going to be great and then

00:25:43   everything just fell apart within like

00:25:45   two months of that happening and is the

00:25:47   same exact thing with the with google

00:25:49   music which is probably the best well i

00:25:52   would say Google Wallet might be the the

00:25:54   biggest chaos situations they've ever

00:25:56   had but google music is certainly one of

00:25:58   them because it was two years ago almost

00:26:00   exactly at i/o that they first announced

00:26:02   you know what would look to be a full on

00:26:04   itunes competitor of course they

00:26:06   pre-announced it and no one knew for

00:26:08   sure when it was going to come out and

00:26:09   then hit took them several months of

00:26:12   negotiating and it didn't actually

00:26:14   launch until just about a year later and

00:26:16   even today two years after they

00:26:18   announced that they still don't have

00:26:20   warner brothers on board

00:26:21   I mean they still do not have one of the

00:26:24   major labels on their big music service

00:26:27   that was going to revolutionize you know

00:26:28   music purchasing and how on earth do

00:26:31   they not have at least twenty-five

00:26:34   percent if not more

00:26:35   Warners you know arguably the

00:26:36   it's important to have on board they

00:26:38   don't have them on board and they know

00:26:40   you just you know they just thought that

00:26:41   they could get it you know would be

00:26:42   super easy and two years later

00:26:44   nothing and it's not going to happen

00:26:45   right i think that the group and add

00:26:47   some steps when it comes to dealing with

00:26:49   the rest of the industry that they

00:26:51   implement instead of thinking like a

00:26:53   chess player and having this look if we

00:26:55   do this then this then this this is

00:26:58   where we'll be

00:26:59   you know and have this strategy that it

00:27:01   with no gaps from here to there they

00:27:03   have this we have the that famous South

00:27:06   Park analogy where there's this step 2

00:27:08   dot figure 3c is it alright let me let

00:27:14   me hit the money button here and and do

00:27:16   the first sponsor sure I want to thank

00:27:18   brand new company it's a new app from a

00:27:22   new company company is nice mohawk and

00:27:26   they have a brand new app called Ida ITA

00:27:29   think of it like it i think it's a Latin

00:27:31   were plural for items a brand-new

00:27:34   list-making app for the iphone and ipad

00:27:39   and it's designed to make it fast and

00:27:40   simple to collect and organize

00:27:42   information i love the look at this app

00:27:44   this app think of it as sort of almost

00:27:47   like a field notes aesthetic like a

00:27:49   brown paper with one of my favorite font

00:27:52   future all over the place sort of the

00:27:54   classic timeless fifties sixties look

00:27:58   typographically looks like stationary

00:28:00   beautiful ab and you just make lists

00:28:06   it's not like a to-do system it's just

00:28:10   less you make lists across items off

00:28:12   couldn't be simpler and it syncs across

00:28:15   iCloud so you can use it on more than

00:28:17   one device and seamless sinking through

00:28:20   iCloud universal app one app for both

00:28:24   the iphone ipad and it's fully

00:28:27   accessible using voiceover it is on sale

00:28:30   right now for ninety-nine cents through

00:28:33   june fifteenth one buck for the first

00:28:37   list app that's actually better than a

00:28:38   piece of paper

00:28:39   Ida ITA from nice mohawk great app you

00:28:46   doing

00:28:47   do when you find out that there's a cool

00:28:48   app from 99 cents i just buy it

00:28:50   yeah there's no question i mean who

00:28:52   cares 99 dance where years into this

00:28:55   whole app store thing where there's this

00:28:57   whole discussion where indie developers

00:28:59   had gone from selling at least on the

00:29:01   mac it was very standard just you know

00:29:03   indie developers the low-end was always

00:29:05   around 15 bucks

00:29:07   I mean it seemed like nobody could

00:29:08   really make a living selling software

00:29:09   for less than 15 and most apps were

00:29:12   usually started like 20 bucks you know

00:29:14   1999 yeah and the whole 99-cent thing

00:29:17   really had people thinking is anybody

00:29:18   going to be able to make a living

00:29:19   selling these apps and it's you know it

00:29:22   seems like definitely some are I mean

00:29:23   whether 99 senses the right price for

00:29:25   199 and 299 but i'll tell you what for

00:29:27   ninety-nine cents i just do it

00:29:29   I just buy it um yeah i mean it's it's a

00:29:33   no-brainer the only thing I actually

00:29:34   think about now is that god I have so

00:29:35   many apps and it's just going to get

00:29:37   lost in the shuffle and you know will i

00:29:39   buy it one night and then forget about

00:29:41   it the next day and so a you know that's

00:29:43   the only thing I think about it's not

00:29:44   the the price thing it's almost just

00:29:46   just you know a non equation because it

00:29:49   is so cheap and so easy to download now

00:29:52   I'm kind of interested to see how with

00:29:54   you know some mountain lion presumably I

00:29:58   i guess that they'll have the gold

00:29:59   master version at WWDC next week

00:30:03   you know we've both been trying it out

00:30:05   for a bit the developer preview of it

00:30:06   seems pretty solid to me i don't know if

00:30:08   you've had any problems with it

00:30:10   I the only thing I really noticed that

00:30:12   kind of annoys me is the slow shutdown

00:30:15   speed and that's like I don't really

00:30:17   know what that's about I don't know if

00:30:18   you've noticed that at all but uh

00:30:19   there's and shut down

00:30:21   ok so I you know I try and shut down i

00:30:23   don't know why but I should tell them

00:30:25   about what it once a night pretty much

00:30:27   and then start anew in the in the

00:30:29   morning but that's only thing I've

00:30:31   noticed about it seems our salad but I'm

00:30:33   sort of interested to see how the mac

00:30:35   app store plays along with with mountain

00:30:38   line now given the stuff that they're

00:30:40   doing with with what's what's it called

00:30:43   out of the Volt thing i'll file on and

00:30:48   I'm sorry gatekeeper I know yeah you

00:30:53   know how is that are people actually

00:30:55   going to do the default setting for it

00:30:58   right is going to be that people have to

00:31:00   be

00:31:00   yeah certified by this app certification

00:31:03   thing and are people actually going to

00:31:06   get around to doing that our developers

00:31:07   going to do that and if they do that is

00:31:09   there more incentive now to sell their

00:31:11   stuff as as a registered developer over

00:31:15   the web versus the mac app store i don't

00:31:17   know if it's the if it's apple playing

00:31:18   against itself is you know trying to

00:31:20   trying to push the mac app store a

00:31:22   little bit less than making it easier

00:31:23   for people to do the web or if it's a

00:31:26   kind of vice versatile just exploded

00:31:28   interest in in mac apps in general i

00:31:32   wonder i do think and I believe this and

00:31:35   you know this could be one of those

00:31:36   things where I'm 23 years from now I'm

00:31:38   shown to be wrong but I do believe that

00:31:41   Apple sees that as long as there's a mac

00:31:44   that you'll be able to install software

00:31:47   from anywhere it will not be app store

00:31:49   only

00:31:50   yep right which is a big fear for a lot

00:31:52   of mac users is that there's gonna you

00:31:53   know obviously not going to 10 8 but

00:31:55   maybe ten nine or whatever

00:31:57   sometimes a year from now two years now

00:31:59   they're going to say hey there's a great

00:32:00   new feature for security

00:32:02   you can only install software from the

00:32:03   mac app store I'm i don't think they're

00:32:06   going to do that i really don't and I

00:32:08   really think that gatekeeper is not a

00:32:10   step towards that I think gatekeeper is

00:32:13   a way of bringing some of the peace of

00:32:16   mind of right the App Store to download

00:32:22   it from anywhere apps right he's not

00:32:24   going to start

00:32:25   yeah yeah go ahead well how how

00:32:29   restrictive are they going to be as they

00:32:31   really only going to because the thing

00:32:33   is is that you get this developer

00:32:34   certificate that signs your apps and

00:32:38   apple can revoke so if you've used it

00:32:41   for something that seemed to be malware

00:32:43   people have got it apple can revoke that

00:32:45   certificate remotely and then

00:32:47   yep that all those apps just stopped

00:32:49   working where they only going to what

00:32:55   are they going to use that for they

00:32:56   really are going to use it for things

00:32:57   that everybody agrees our malware or

00:33:00   like what about like this situation with

00:33:02   the rogue amoeba airfoil touch

00:33:04   yes it's interesting right right right

00:33:06   so let me see if I can summarize this

00:33:08   quickly but Rogan me by

00:33:10   as this app for the iphone called

00:33:15   airfoil speakers touch and you can use

00:33:17   it to it's like a airplay remember

00:33:23   fireplace without it and they added a

00:33:26   new feature as I can night so you can

00:33:28   play for you know music from airfoil on

00:33:30   your Mac or PC to your to your iOS

00:33:32   devices and it's great works works

00:33:34   amazingly well they added a new feature

00:33:36   in the latest version like six weeks ago

00:33:38   that lets you set your iOS device as a

00:33:43   destination for airplay from itunes so

00:33:46   you can play music from itunes and have

00:33:48   it sent there just looks just like when

00:33:50   your apple TV shows up as a airplay

00:33:52   destination right and the way there is

00:33:54   no supported way to do that the way they

00:33:56   did that is with this technique with you

00:33:58   know I I think I don't even know how it

00:34:00   works but any but there is no supported

00:34:02   way to do it i think they have like a

00:34:03   key that that came out of a an airport

00:34:08   express or something like that the

00:34:11   public key or something like that but

00:34:13   it's not supported and once Apple

00:34:16   figured out that the app got into the

00:34:17   app store but then because that's the

00:34:20   sort of obscure edge case that the

00:34:22   reviewers aren't going to catch and

00:34:23   they're not violating any of the actual

00:34:25   rules of the app store in terms of

00:34:27   private api all they're doing is using a

00:34:30   non-public decryption key to be a air

00:34:34   plate receiver and so apple took it out

00:34:37   of the store until they took that

00:34:38   feature out of the app and resubmitted

00:34:41   it to the store so would they

00:34:43   there's here so here's where i'm going

00:34:44   with that what about if rogue amoeba

00:34:47   ships a mac version that has the same

00:34:50   feature right size not alter the store

00:34:53   it's just sold through the through the

00:34:54   web though right right so directly not

00:34:58   through the mac app store right from the

00:34:59   rogue amoeba website if it's signed by

00:35:01   gatekeeper is that ok because it's not

00:35:03   now where it's doing exactly what it was

00:35:05   billed to do

00:35:06   yeah I may not be happy i would hope

00:35:09   that that what they would do in that

00:35:10   situation is just reach out to the

00:35:13   developer and you know try and talk to

00:35:14   them back channel because it seems like

00:35:16   it's a bit of you know it's going to be

00:35:19   an edge case type situation where they

00:35:21   can probably you know handle that they

00:35:23   have the the man

00:35:24   or to be able to handle that rather than

00:35:25   just kill the app because that will

00:35:27   cause an absolute shit storm if they do

00:35:28   that you have a remotely kill a nap that

00:35:32   was downloaded from the web

00:35:33   you know that's kind of a a barrier i

00:35:36   don't think they want to cross right i

00:35:37   would think that they don't want to

00:35:39   cross that because i really do think

00:35:40   they want developers to get on board

00:35:42   with this they want all the major Mac

00:35:44   developers you know if you're going to

00:35:46   keep selling stuff that's not my app app

00:35:49   store only at least do this and I think

00:35:52   that anything that they could do that

00:35:54   would make developers wary of doing it i

00:35:56   think those shy away from yeah yeah i

00:36:00   think that the only use it for malware

00:36:03   stuff and you know it's it's it's really

00:36:05   genius because it kind of cuts mail

00:36:08   where problems off you know right at the

00:36:10   root of it rather than having to worry

00:36:12   about it after the fact and so it's

00:36:13   smart in that way I i still wonder and I

00:36:17   and I think this is going to play out

00:36:18   pretty interestingly in Mount line

00:36:20   itself because you know they'll have for

00:36:23   the first time all will be mac apps that

00:36:25   can play nicely with iOS apps right so

00:36:28   they'll have a lot of games that they're

00:36:30   kinda that there will be coming out that

00:36:31   will be able to do that that might my

00:36:33   thought is and i'm pretty sure this is

00:36:35   true maybe you know the answer sure that

00:36:37   they have to be sold through the mac app

00:36:39   store to be able to do that to be able

00:36:42   to interplay with with iOS apps you know

00:36:45   if that's if that's actually the case

00:36:46   run the question by me again i'm not

00:36:51   quite sure so they'll have you know like

00:36:53   a game for example they had you know

00:36:55   some sort of game that will right now of

00:36:58   course you can play across iOS devices

00:36:59   you can play with an iphone vs an ipad

00:37:02   and some reason say and you know the end

00:37:04   so they'll have it now where you can do

00:37:05   it via the mac to you can play a game

00:37:09   that's that syncs across the entire

00:37:12   ecosystem but i think that those are

00:37:14   only going to work if it's sold the mac

00:37:17   app store i think there's things like

00:37:18   Game Center that they're going to

00:37:20   require you to use the mac app store for

00:37:22   yeah I and I it there's nothing that

00:37:25   would keep a developer from implementing

00:37:27   their own peer to peer over the Wi-Fi

00:37:29   thing that would let an ipad

00:37:31   up communicate with a mac app you can do

00:37:33   that today alright though that if you

00:37:35   want to do it through apple's sister

00:37:37   apples back and try to go through the I

00:37:39   mean it's the same thing with iCloud for

00:37:41   storage is yep

00:37:42   the only way you get to write to iCloud

00:37:45   is if you go through the app store right

00:37:48   and i think it's all about you know it's

00:37:50   they're not going to they're never gonna

00:37:51   see that control the start so that if

00:37:53   anybody's writing it is abusing iCloud

00:37:57   by writing way too much data exceeding

00:37:59   any kind of you know limits are using it

00:38:01   for file sharing or something ridiculous

00:38:03   like that Apple can just yank the plug

00:38:06   yet and this out let me ask you this

00:38:09   this is this is something that developed

00:38:11   that more than one developer is brought

00:38:13   up you know in the past few months with

00:38:14   me that when talking specifically about

00:38:16   gatekeeper and i think you said

00:38:18   something about this before but I'm

00:38:20   interested in your take it some the idea

00:38:22   that gatekeeper is sort of a test to see

00:38:26   if they would if they can ever do non

00:38:29   appstore apps on iOS devices so they

00:38:32   would do the same thing where they they

00:38:34   sign the developer and they have no

00:38:35   unsigned developers since they're

00:38:37   starting from scratch they would be with

00:38:39   iOS but they would have a way that you

00:38:41   could download via the web as long as

00:38:44   they were a assigned developer and you

00:38:46   would just lose excess of course to

00:38:48   things like iCloud access and can game

00:38:50   center and those type of Apple things

00:38:52   but you would be allowed to download

00:38:54   from the web do you think that's ever

00:38:55   going to happen i don't and in fact John

00:38:59   Walton I talked about it on last week's

00:39:00   episode and i think it's it's possible

00:39:03   and if they were going to do it would

00:39:05   definitely be through gatekeeper like I

00:39:06   think that in if they ever did it i

00:39:09   don't think they would ever allow true

00:39:10   unsigned side-loaded apps if they ever

00:39:13   allowed sideload apps in iOS it would be

00:39:16   through something exactly like

00:39:17   gatekeeper where it's signed and they

00:39:19   could still revoke it remotely actually

00:39:23   have were sitting right here it's open a

00:39:24   tab i haven't linked to it yet i have a

00:39:26   blog post from a guy named zach weekend

00:39:29   and he after listening to the show last

00:39:32   week he said let me see if i can find it

00:39:36   a good pull quote here that it's not

00:39:39   about the money yes Apple makes a little

00:39:41   bit of money from their thirty percent

00:39:42   cut but they are also providing a

00:39:43   service for that tree they host your

00:39:45   yup I agree with that that is not just

00:39:48   about the money i don't know i think

00:39:49   they're on the Apple gets me abstracts

00:39:51   it's nice and neutral to them it's icing

00:39:53   on the cake right but the reason he

00:39:56   finds it hard to believe that apple will

00:39:58   ever open up the floodgates to third

00:40:00   party at our third party non appstore

00:40:01   apps is one word

00:40:03   amazon if Apple were to allow apps to be

00:40:06   loaded from other sources nothing would

00:40:07   prevent amazon from creating a rival

00:40:09   store one that provides many of the same

00:40:11   benefits and is even more

00:40:12   developer-friendly uh yeah that's

00:40:16   interesting that's really interesting

00:40:17   actually because you look at the history

00:40:18   of amazon while they are sort of trying

00:40:21   to do this now with the with the android

00:40:24   that's kind of their model in general

00:40:26   where they just you know they figure out

00:40:28   kind of the some weak point and just

00:40:32   kind of go over the top and figure out a

00:40:33   way to bully their their way into the

00:40:35   system and kind of disrupted from the

00:40:38   ground up and yeah that could

00:40:40   potentially open some sort of box that

00:40:44   that apple doesn't want to open if they

00:40:46   were to do that I think that amazon have

00:40:48   a harder time doing it from pure light

00:40:49   quality perspective and maybe even you

00:40:52   know kind of confusion on how to install

00:40:54   things but yeah that's pretty

00:40:56   interesting

00:40:57   I like that idea right I so I i would

00:41:00   think my honest feeling is that they

00:41:02   wouldn't do it unless they were forced

00:41:04   to buy antitrust legislation

00:41:07   yeah or however you want to put it

00:41:10   government regulation right I then if

00:41:13   they did that that's the route they

00:41:14   would take yeah that's so not

00:41:18   yeah interesting i wanted i forgot to

00:41:21   mention one time wanted to give a

00:41:22   shout-out to Ida about is that with this

00:41:25   skeuomorphic sort of paper list thing

00:41:28   they've done something i don't know if

00:41:30   they had me in mind I don't know what

00:41:32   they've done something that makes me

00:41:34   just adore the app which is that like

00:41:37   the whole user interface like i said is

00:41:38   in future which I door but when you

00:41:40   enter stuff it's not in and marker felt

00:41:43   or chalkboard or any of those goofy

00:41:45   silly childish handwriting fonts it's

00:41:48   your input is helvetica it it's the I

00:41:51   just wanted I can't believe i forgot to

00:41:53   mention entering a sponsor read that

00:41:55   it's the skeuomorphic paper type thing

00:41:58   but without

00:41:59   goofy silly handwriting fun which is why

00:42:02   does Apple use those anyway like

00:42:03   everyone just makes fun of them

00:42:05   I you know what these are no I just

00:42:08   remember the day I got my original

00:42:09   iphone in 2007 I loved every single

00:42:12   thing about it except that stupid font

00:42:14   and notes app yes couldn't stop looking

00:42:16   at it as I and I know they switched from

00:42:20   marker fell to the one that has talking

00:42:22   the name and i love the name the chalk

00:42:23   name and I just can't help but think

00:42:25   that it's somebody else that Apple who

00:42:26   thinks of it like I do like nails on a

00:42:28   chalkboard every time there's a pic also

00:42:34   i also have a little another piece of

00:42:35   correction from last week I have to get

00:42:38   to is that last week's sponsor i

00:42:40   pronouncing your name wrong

00:42:42   pixelmator not pixel mentor and I I

00:42:45   curse myself for this because i called

00:42:47   it Pixelmator for years and then

00:42:49   somebody somewhere told me that because

00:42:51   the guys who make the aperture German

00:42:52   that it's not called Pixelmator it's

00:42:54   pixel mentor and I thought well you know

00:42:57   I want to be worldly I'm debonair and it

00:42:59   pronounce words in other languages so I

00:43:01   didn't really think about it before we

00:43:02   did the show and I did the sponsoring

00:43:04   then i got like a hundred emails from

00:43:06   people saying holy crap i've been saying

00:43:08   Pixelmator like our automator for years

00:43:10   I can't believe I'm wrong so I checked

00:43:12   with the Pixelmator guys in there they

00:43:13   said its Pixelmator like automator and I

00:43:16   and I and I did the wrong thing i

00:43:19   overthought it so that that's another

00:43:22   piece of cleanup us we have a winner

00:43:26   when you come guys soon you're coming

00:43:27   out here for WI will be there I will be

00:43:30   there next week

00:43:31   have you uh would what do you know what

00:43:36   your general thoughts what's coming

00:43:38   that's what I go we can spend the rest

00:43:39   of the show and you know what I'll take

00:43:41   an opportunity right now I have another

00:43:42   announcement to make

00:43:43   I'll just make it right now maybe

00:43:45   there's going to be a live episode of

00:43:48   this show the talk show next week

00:43:49   broadcast from WWDC gonna be on tuesday

00:43:53   at five thirty and it's going to be free

00:43:58   it's about a hundred and fifty tickets

00:44:00   to give out so if you want to go if

00:44:02   you're going to be in san francisco

00:44:03   gonna be at WWDC it's going to be held a

00:44:05   few blocks away from Moscow knee tuesday

00:44:07   afternoon you can get tickets at

00:44:12   talk-show dot eventbrite.com that's

00:44:17   eventbrite is spelled bri te dot-com

00:44:21   there's about a hundred fifty tickets I

00:44:23   don't know how fast they're going to go

00:44:24   i'm not going to announce on daring

00:44:26   fireball the only way I'm gonna announce

00:44:27   it is right here during this broadcast I

00:44:30   special guest is going to be cable

00:44:33   sasser of panic i don't know maybe

00:44:36   there'll be other surprise guess I'm not

00:44:38   sure probably about an hour show so nice

00:44:42   the talk show at eventbrite.com hope you

00:44:45   can make it

00:44:46   yeah i'll be a i'll be there on Tuesday

00:44:49   Tuesday 530 so I figure we'll have lots

00:44:51   of WBC news to talk about and talked

00:44:55   about Panik software with with cable

00:44:59   after so what to expect i don't know i

00:45:02   guess they-- it seems like everybody

00:45:04   realized it seems pretty obvious is

00:45:05   going to new mac hardware right I'm not

00:45:08   sure though how much time you know i

00:45:10   like to think about where they put the

00:45:12   emphasis in their key nuts because it's

00:45:14   their very very carefully thought-out

00:45:16   yep i wonder how much time they're going

00:45:19   to spend talking about Mac hardware or

00:45:22   will it just be I i can honestly see it

00:45:24   it's not even really being mentioned i

00:45:27   don't know i guess if they go retina

00:45:28   display they're going to have to mention

00:45:29   it because that's developer news and

00:45:31   that's a real bragging point that they

00:45:33   can jump on over the industry and they

00:45:35   can say look first we brought the retina

00:45:36   to the phone then we brought the retina

00:45:38   to the ipad everybody loves it text is

00:45:41   beautiful pictures look better now we're

00:45:44   bringing it to the mac yep

00:45:46   yeah I i think you know obviously

00:45:48   everyone knows the trend over the years

00:45:50   where because iOS is so huge compared to

00:45:53   Mac development that this is the focus

00:45:55   of WWDC now and it just so happens that

00:45:58   the timing of all this this new mac

00:46:00   hardware seems to be corresponding

00:46:02   perfectly with wwc so you think that

00:46:04   they got to say something about it there

00:46:05   and the fact that they have you know the

00:46:07   new OS 10 presumably close to being done

00:46:10   they've always said is gonna come out

00:46:12   this summer you know and and they like

00:46:14   to of course launch those things with

00:46:16   some new hardware so it still seems like

00:46:19   though yeah i mean you all the banners

00:46:20   you see that are up right now at at

00:46:22   moscone are

00:46:23   are pretty much a populated so it will

00:46:27   be interesting to see how much time they

00:46:28   devote to to the mac itself but I cannot

00:46:31   wait to see what of retina display on a

00:46:35   macbook and you know macbook pro or

00:46:37   whatever it's going to be looks like I

00:46:39   can't even really think about what it

00:46:41   would look like because you know you you

00:46:43   look at your screen right now I'm

00:46:44   looking at a 27-inch imac screen and

00:46:46   it's a beautiful screen and it's always

00:46:47   been a beautiful screen and it's like

00:46:49   how you know how much better is it going

00:46:52   to be now with it with a Retina display

00:46:54   and will it be the same situation that

00:46:56   we had with the iphone and that with the

00:46:58   ipad where you can look at one of the

00:46:59   retina displays and then you look at the

00:47:01   old one and while when you first look at

00:47:03   one and look at the other you know too I

00:47:05   think I still think to kind of the the

00:47:08   common user they're like okay yeah it

00:47:10   looks nicer but you don't really you

00:47:11   don't really get into you look at one

00:47:13   and then look at the other right away or

00:47:15   try and switch back after a long time

00:47:17   using it and it just looks awful and is

00:47:18   that the way all macs are going to look

00:47:20   now

00:47:20   yeah i think it's the same that whenever

00:47:22   you buy a new computer and it's faster

00:47:23   than your old one you notice the speed

00:47:25   for a couple of seconds and it feels fun

00:47:27   you know it kind of fades away and then

00:47:29   if you go back to the old machine after

00:47:30   a couple of days are like I can't

00:47:32   believe i use this and that is the

00:47:33   retina displays exact same way where and

00:47:36   I remember it the naysayers about the

00:47:37   ipad who are saying there's no way

00:47:39   they're gonna you know they could do

00:47:40   with the phone because it was only 960 x

00:47:42   6 whatever 640 on but there's no way

00:47:46   they're going to put the 2048 pixel

00:47:48   display and this tiny little iPad it's

00:47:51   that that's insane you're not going to

00:47:53   do it nobody's gonna road is nobody's

00:47:54   winning money it's a price nobody is out

00:47:56   there did you know they argument was

00:47:58   nobody's out there with the first ipad

00:47:59   or the second one saying my god the

00:48:01   pixels are too noticeable on this but

00:48:03   the truth is once you've used the eye

00:48:04   the retina display one they are they're

00:48:06   off yes

00:48:07   yeah it's pretty bad to go back and and

00:48:10   look at it now you can pack a i mean

00:48:12   it's it's me it's even worse than it is

00:48:14   on the on the iphone switch which is

00:48:16   still pretty bad but just because the

00:48:18   bigger screen and so it'll be even a

00:48:19   bigger screen now you know presumably a

00:48:21   15 inch or something like that with the

00:48:24   with a mac book and it's like it got

00:48:26   that's going to be really jarring to

00:48:28   today and I know into mac people have

00:48:31   said to me over the years because I i do

00:48:33   i I obsess over typography

00:48:35   it is absolutely one of my great

00:48:37   passions and I've had this discussion

00:48:40   with people about pixels is that you

00:48:42   know that it's inevitable and and and

00:48:45   they say well know most people don't

00:48:46   care about this stuff like you do so why

00:48:48   would they bother but it's the path that

00:48:52   print talk right like if you look at

00:48:54   really old books if you look at books

00:48:56   that were printed you know like vintage

00:48:58   books from about a hundred years ago or

00:48:59   so that the printing quality was great i

00:49:02   mean it you know typography had you know

00:49:04   some of the great text faces of all time

00:49:06   were well established already a hundred

00:49:08   years ago and the typography is gorgeous

00:49:10   but if you look at the quality of the

00:49:12   printing it's it there's a lot of you

00:49:14   know the ink spread a lot and the fonts

00:49:18   were designed to accommodate that the

00:49:20   great text faces of hundred years ago

00:49:24   were designed with the idea that look

00:49:26   it's gonna you know it's not going to be

00:49:28   super crisp it's not the letters are

00:49:30   going to be perfect you go to a

00:49:32   bookstore now buy a print book that the

00:49:34   the quality of the type in the book is

00:49:37   astounding

00:49:38   it is like each letter is absolutely

00:49:40   perfectly by a newsweek or time I mean

00:49:44   they still print Newsweek right i think

00:49:47   so

00:49:47   dan lyons you know he's he's big in

00:49:49   there somebody's going to have

00:49:50   somebody's wearing his legs right I the

00:49:53   print quality is astounding

00:49:55   it is absolutely astounding and its

00:49:57   beginning maybe you don't notice that

00:49:58   the you did people don't buy news we can

00:50:00   think my god this thing is is very

00:50:02   finely printed ah you may not know that

00:50:06   you may not think it but you notice it

00:50:07   and that's just like the way apple stuff

00:50:09   is all the way you know where people

00:50:10   don't buy normal people don't buy it

00:50:13   the iphone and think about how nice this

00:50:15   seems our between the steel antenna and

00:50:19   the glass front and you may not think

00:50:22   about it but you appreciate it right do

00:50:25   you think do you think that they just to

00:50:27   kind of one product with at first with

00:50:30   the retina display for in terms of the

00:50:32   Mack you know they do a macbook pro

00:50:33   rather than the macbook air and and

00:50:36   maybe or do they do you know do the

00:50:38   release of cinema display one that can

00:50:40   use that obviously they've met new mac

00:50:42   pro's you'll need new cinema displays or

00:50:44   or you can use the old ones but do they

00:50:45   do just one uh

00:50:48   retina at first try I really don't know

00:50:51   I I thought originally that they would

00:50:53   do it one just to introducing and it

00:50:55   seems like that's a little bit more of a

00:50:56   napoli way to do it is just interactive

00:50:59   but it seems like there but there's so

00:51:01   many spots in the mac product matrix

00:51:06   that are overdue for an update that it

00:51:09   just feels to me like they're going to

00:51:11   just do the whole line at once and say

00:51:14   that they all they all get written that

00:51:15   you get a Retina Display you get to it's

00:51:18   going to be Oprah Winfrey up they're

00:51:20   great cars God you think they'll do a

00:51:22   27-inch imac and like cinema display on

00:51:26   that would be pretty insane

00:51:28   I don't know it seems it seems almost

00:51:29   impossible but that's what I thought

00:51:31   about the phone to when I first heard

00:51:33   the rumors you know three years ago that

00:51:35   they were going to double the pixel

00:51:36   resolution on the iphone it just seemed

00:51:38   impossible

00:51:39   yep I I mean it like there's more pixels

00:51:43   i still have a 20 inch cinema display

00:51:45   but even if you had like the old 23 into

00:51:46   whatever you the ipad today's ipad has

00:51:49   more pixels than oh that's crazy on

00:51:51   yeah so I don't know I I you know I

00:51:54   almost wonder in at it I don't even know

00:51:56   if it's like a yield problem but maybe

00:51:58   at this point you know with the pixels

00:51:59   that small a couple of dead pixels you

00:52:01   don't even notice i honestly don't know

00:52:03   right

00:52:04   sure would be awesome if they did and I

00:52:08   wonder you know obviously they'll try

00:52:10   and they'll do something within os10

00:52:12   mountain lion sooo kind of make older

00:52:16   apps look fine on the new thing without

00:52:20   being custom tailored for it but I I do

00:52:22   sort of wonder

00:52:23   excuse me what they'll end up looking

00:52:25   like I think it's going to be like the

00:52:27   iphone where they know they're going to

00:52:29   stick out the ones that haven't been

00:52:31   updated are going to stick out because

00:52:32   that is the weird thing the weird thing

00:52:34   about and I didn't think of it didn't

00:52:37   make sense to me until I saw it but when

00:52:39   you run non-retina apps on the iphone

00:52:42   based shouldn't theory

00:52:44   look the same as they did on an old 3gs

00:52:47   with a non retina display but they don't

00:52:50   it looks worse right because the pixels

00:52:53   yeah there's a little for pixel square

00:52:55   one pixel used to be but there's so much

00:52:57   sharper that you see that whereas it was

00:53:00   sort of fun

00:53:01   on the old non retina displays there was

00:53:04   a fuzziness that sort of glossed over

00:53:07   the the pixelation that you can notice

00:53:09   whereas yep when you run them on the

00:53:12   actual retina displays it it turns into

00:53:14   sharp jagged pneus that stair-step you

00:53:17   know like you're filling in graph paper

00:53:19   right look and I you know I think that I

00:53:23   think that's the motivation i think

00:53:25   that's the one thing about apples

00:53:26   success with this sort of athletics are

00:53:30   a core value that across-the-board it

00:53:34   just gets developers on board like your

00:53:36   app looks like ass is is like a kick in

00:53:39   the pants to developers to hurry up

00:53:41   hurry up and fix it like no one wants to

00:53:43   be that guy who people are saying i love

00:53:45   your app but boy it looks like ass on my

00:53:47   new macbook air

00:53:48   yeah I wonder I you know I think about

00:53:52   like what are.what are 1080p movies

00:53:53   gonna be like when you know most youtube

00:53:55   things or 1080p now we have the option

00:53:57   for at Vimeo videos and then of course

00:53:58   the itunes content you know they can go

00:54:02   with it so far beyond that but

00:54:05   Hollywood's obviously not ready to do

00:54:06   that they are they're filming like the

00:54:08   filming the new Hobbit movie right with

00:54:09   those red cams and that's going to be a

00:54:11   uniform can I resolution right for can

00:54:14   and so there are you know there are

00:54:15   there will be options do that in the

00:54:16   future but you know it's going to be an

00:54:19   interesting transition is AI think video

00:54:22   I think video gets by with it though

00:54:24   because of the motion

00:54:26   yeah is it right immersion kinda

00:54:28   inherently blurs the stuff just like

00:54:31   with you know when you watch an actual

00:54:33   film projected that the you know the the

00:54:38   frame to frame you don't see the frames

00:54:39   and so right i think that covers it up i

00:54:42   think a bigger question is what

00:54:43   photography photographs are going to

00:54:45   look like

00:54:46   yep and you kind of see that on the ipad

00:54:50   i think especially when you're on the

00:54:51   web because most websites don't have

00:54:53   retina photographs their photographs on

00:54:57   the web and you really I'd I think you

00:55:00   can really see like jpeg compression now

00:55:02   that you couldn't see before with the

00:55:03   exact same photograph on on a on another

00:55:06   kind of non retina display

00:55:08   yeah yeah it was you know I had my

00:55:11   little logo thing

00:55:13   of course wasn't wasn't retina ready

00:55:14   when it came out and I just look at that

00:55:16   and cringe every single day and soho now

00:55:18   it's a matter of just uploading a much

00:55:20   larger image file but it looks finally

00:55:23   looks fine red yeah let me I'm gonna

00:55:27   just let me do the second sponsor and

00:55:29   will run through I think for the rest of

00:55:30   the show will speak talk more about WWDC

00:55:33   rumors but they're the second sponsor is

00:55:37   excellent creations that spelled ex-ceo

00:55:40   llen t excellent without the E in the

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00:56:05   attending WWDC excellent creations will

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00:56:39   you're in the market for a new job as an

00:56:41   app developer talk to excellent

00:56:43   creations

00:56:44   they're great place to work thank you to

00:56:46   them and look for Matt wdc so what else

00:56:54   maps maps it seems like a done deal i

00:56:56   mean that's the one that's that's leaked

00:56:58   everywhere

00:56:59   what what would you make of the of the

00:57:01   google event yes it was me yesterday

00:57:04   that happened kind of funny funny little

00:57:07   event you know that uh that I don't know

00:57:11   what they were really thinking you know

00:57:13   if they were even trying to be a smart

00:57:17   about the way that they kind of time the

00:57:18   entire thing every tweet that is all

00:57:21   about it you know I was gearing up to

00:57:23   just sit down and watch it and then it's

00:57:24   just like treat us like this is

00:57:25   ridiculous

00:57:26   announcing anything all they're saying

00:57:28   is you know kind of the history of

00:57:29   google maps and and going into you know

00:57:32   how great the product is and it's very

00:57:34   clear that they threw this conference

00:57:35   together at the last second just to

00:57:37   preempt whatever Apple is going to

00:57:38   announce at wwc one of the articles I

00:57:41   read covering and i forget which side it

00:57:44   was on but the first comment was perfect

00:57:47   it was the first comment with somebody

00:57:48   who's comment was google to apple all

00:57:52   caps first

00:57:54   yeah you know which is it was so perfect

00:57:58   because it's you know that's famously

00:57:59   what try to people jerks try to stick in

00:58:01   is the first comment on any article

00:58:03   right it really was and and somebody

00:58:05   else had the analogy is on Twitter and I

00:58:07   wish I'd thought of it was that it

00:58:08   really wreaked of that it was exactly

00:58:12   like that 2010 CES keynote from steve

00:58:16   ballmer whenever your slates and right

00:58:19   right holding up their one year it was

00:58:22   you know six weeks before the original

00:58:24   iPad introduction and it was at a point

00:58:27   where there is this fever pitch of hey

00:58:29   apples really doing a tablet and there

00:58:31   is coming soon

00:58:32   everybody knew it nobody knew what it

00:58:34   was going to be but there's this idea

00:58:35   that Apple has a tablet and it's coming

00:58:37   soon in and Microsoft CES keynote was

00:58:40   about slates and they tried to grasp the

00:58:42   word in there and and Google got a

00:58:46   chance to throw out the 3d word I you

00:58:49   know even though you know they've had 3d

00:58:51   elements of course for for a while but

00:58:52   now they have some concern new you know

00:58:54   I amazing 3d element coming soon my new

00:58:57   nothing was actually released at this

00:58:59   event because it wasn't ready right but

00:59:01   coming soon they will have some sort of

00:59:03   3d thing I thought I think was like

00:59:06   quentin hardy for I think he wrote about

00:59:08   in new york times maybe even like the

00:59:10   bits blog there something like that but

00:59:11   I'm you know because I was of course

00:59:13   extremely skeptical and just wrote a

00:59:15   post pretty much trashing that that

00:59:17   whole conference is a giant waste of

00:59:18   time and kinda showing a google has

00:59:22   while they are you know undoubtedly the

00:59:25   leader in maps they do have a

00:59:26   vulnerability here that I think is is

00:59:28   going to be fun sort of watch how it

00:59:31   plays out but I thought we'd already had

00:59:33   an interesting other view of it which is

00:59:36   that they had to do this conference to

00:59:39   try and

00:59:40   preempt what the rest of the press will

00:59:43   talk about at wwc which is that

00:59:46   Wow Apple you know has an opportunity

00:59:48   here to really hurt a google wear

00:59:51   something that matters because you know

00:59:53   mobile mobile Sookie maps are so key to

00:59:56   mobile and there's all this data and you

00:59:59   know Google could

00:59:59   know Google could

01:00:00   lose half the market all of a sudden and

01:00:02   so Quinton hardees point was that you

01:00:05   know this at least put some seed in the

01:00:08   presses mind that well you know this

01:00:11   what apple announced you know could be

01:00:13   disruptive certainly but it's not nearly

01:00:15   as good as what Google is done in and

01:00:17   you know they've had seven years to work

01:00:19   on this and they've been doing it all

01:00:20   this time and they have all the experts

01:00:22   in the space you know working on this

01:00:23   problem so there's no way they can

01:00:25   actually do it

01:00:25   it was basically just a plant a seed of

01:00:27   doubt in five days before WC about it i

01:00:30   guess i just think it makes them look

01:00:32   defensive though

01:00:34   yes right there my tickets they're

01:00:35   fighting down rather than fighting

01:00:37   because they are a position of power

01:00:39   I you know I i if it were me I would

01:00:43   just stay silent

01:00:45   you know yeah and you know i might have

01:00:47   you know fought as hard as i could have

01:00:49   been negotiating table to convince Apple

01:00:51   to stick with google maps in iOS if if I

01:00:54   really thought that was in Google's

01:00:56   interests but if they were clearly going

01:00:58   to go their own way and not not renew

01:01:00   the contract then just shut down

01:01:04   silence and you know good luck and let's

01:01:06   see what they do and let them do it

01:01:08   because you know Jay arrow had a piece

01:01:10   on business insider today and in typical

01:01:12   business insider fashion it's sort of

01:01:14   sensationalizing it why Apple is taking

01:01:16   a tremendous risk with this time but

01:01:20   he's a good guy

01:01:21   the arrow and he has a good point the

01:01:22   fundamental point though is that it is a

01:01:24   risk because it has to be as good as

01:01:27   google maps yet overall you know

01:01:30   directions have to be as good and they

01:01:31   can't in on and I I'm guessing that's

01:01:34   why it's taking them so long with their

01:01:36   a been working on this for a while

01:01:37   they've been making these accusations

01:01:38   accusations four years is that there's

01:01:41   no other way to roll that out other than

01:01:43   to do it all at once and have beautiful

01:01:46   cartography that covers the world and

01:01:50   accurate directions and driving and

01:01:54   transit public right hands it you know

01:01:57   and I know that the google walking

01:01:58   directions of star still beta but you

01:02:01   know that they pretty good i mean at

01:02:03   least in the cities i've used them in I

01:02:05   mean it always works

01:02:06   I mean I think they're just covering

01:02:07   their ass if you know you can hit by a

01:02:10   car or something like that

01:02:11   right on but it just has to be as good

01:02:14   and it's an area where Apple is it's not

01:02:16   a historical struggling unproven yeah

01:02:18   yeah and it's like it goes back to what

01:02:20   we were talking about kind of the

01:02:21   beginning where you know if if you're

01:02:23   gonna come into a market that's kind of

01:02:25   dominated by someone you have to do

01:02:27   something that's that's really kind of

01:02:28   you know not just not just as good but

01:02:30   10 times better

01:02:31   Apple resident necessarily have to do

01:02:33   that here because they have control of

01:02:35   this platform and so you know people

01:02:37   will have no choice but rather to use it

01:02:39   and as long as it's just as good

01:02:41   that will be fine for people you know

01:02:43   most people won't even you know most

01:02:45   average consumers I think wouldn't even

01:02:46   they'll notice a difference obviously if

01:02:48   they look a little different but they

01:02:49   wouldn't really care if it's a google

01:02:51   map or if it's an apple maps as long as

01:02:53   it functions just as well as it did so

01:02:55   it doesn't have to be better here but it

01:02:56   has to be as good and that's you know

01:02:59   that's asking a lot and and no one knows

01:03:02   if Apple's going to be able to pull it

01:03:03   off or not they certainly think that the

01:03:05   candidate seems like but who knows my

01:03:07   big question and i have i forget if I

01:03:10   ask this to john molitor adam lee circle

01:03:13   around the show a week or two ago and I

01:03:15   had it was multiple that would we

01:03:16   couldn't figure it out is do you think

01:03:18   they're gonna do a web version of the

01:03:20   map yeah I actually i said this

01:03:22   yesterday too kind of thinking out loud

01:03:24   about it that's that's a really

01:03:28   interesting question because it's on one

01:03:30   hand it seems like if they're going to

01:03:33   ask every developer to do this along

01:03:36   with you know the standard maps app so

01:03:38   in all the apps i'll have the you know

01:03:40   they someone brought up the point you

01:03:42   know that it's not like there is a

01:03:43   Google Maps SDK part of the the iOS SDK

01:03:46   is just the you know they've mapkit I

01:03:49   think and and right now that uses google

01:03:51   data and presumably they'll switch that

01:03:53   out to use the Apple data so so all you

01:03:56   know almost all developers you know

01:03:57   probably will fall in line with that and

01:04:00   if they do that then you know it's sort

01:04:02   of like there's so many apps that have a

01:04:04   web components to it like are they then

01:04:06   going to have to switch over to using

01:04:07   google maps on the web because they have

01:04:09   no other choice or does Apple offer a

01:04:12   web version of it i guess i would guess

01:04:14   that apple doesn't have a web version of

01:04:16   it though it doesn't seem like an

01:04:17   apple-like thing to do but the other

01:04:19   thing I was thinking about is what

01:04:20   happens when you email somebody

01:04:21   directions from you

01:04:22   phone Yeah Yeah right like when you do

01:04:25   it now it you can use the google map on

01:04:27   the phone and say look here's where I'm

01:04:29   coming

01:04:29   yeah the directions in and there's like

01:04:31   a little in action button email this and

01:04:33   send them to the Google Maps website so

01:04:36   i guess they just hope that you're using

01:04:38   a mobile device or an iOS device and you

01:04:41   either open it through your iPad or the

01:04:42   iphone or maybe they have a picture or

01:04:44   something including out it's a real

01:04:47   mystery I don't expect them to a website

01:04:49   but i wonder how they how you email

01:04:51   directions to somebody if they don't

01:04:52   it's also said it's interesting idea as

01:04:56   well because you know on the web itself

01:04:59   google is also in a bit of a vulnerable

01:05:01   position there because for some reason

01:05:04   which most people still don't really

01:05:05   understand google raise their rates a

01:05:08   few months ago for your google maps for

01:05:10   like high-level customers so for example

01:05:12   foursquare switched away from using

01:05:14   google maps on their website they still

01:05:16   use it in there in the mobile app

01:05:18   because it's part of iOS SDK and it's

01:05:20   free right but on the web they started

01:05:23   jacking up the rates for like big

01:05:24   customers and so all those guys moving

01:05:26   over to things like open street maps and

01:05:28   where they can kind of customize their

01:05:30   own maps and so Google is actually

01:05:32   vulnerable here and no one really again

01:05:34   no one understands why they checked the

01:05:36   traits that a lot of money for google

01:05:37   and it just seems like a risk that

01:05:40   they're taking for no apparent reason

01:05:41   but so if Apple words to do web maps of

01:05:46   some sort they could get a lot of the

01:05:48   bigger developers potentially using them

01:05:49   again I don't think it's gonna happen

01:05:51   but it's something interesting to think

01:05:53   about

01:05:53   it's always seemed in Google's priority

01:05:56   was collecting data right right so I

01:05:59   don't know why they're merging yeah

01:06:01   right like why why motivate people that

01:06:04   maybe look elsewhere and fit in

01:06:06   foursquare is obviously a super high

01:06:08   profile example why why give foursquare

01:06:11   any reason to change it does seem

01:06:14   curious to me and I mean unless it's far

01:06:17   more expensive then then I think it is i

01:06:21   mean it's it's definitely expensive but

01:06:23   it'sit's such you know in the amount of

01:06:24   money that they make that they would

01:06:26   make from its is gonna be completely

01:06:28   negligible to Google's bottom line and

01:06:31   so right who cares just do it as a loss

01:06:34   leader I mean it's such a valuable

01:06:35   service

01:06:35   listen they're the leader in this and

01:06:37   there you know i i've talked to

01:06:38   foursquare but they don't know they

01:06:40   don't really know why they decided to

01:06:41   change it and and start jacking up these

01:06:44   rights no one no one really knows and it

01:06:46   just seems on googly it's not you know

01:06:49   all the complaints that we you and I

01:06:50   have about various aspects of google one

01:06:52   is it one thing it i can't imagine ever

01:06:55   saying before is that they seemed like

01:06:57   they were too hungry for collecting

01:07:00   money from people right dad never did it

01:07:02   I can't think of any other example of

01:07:04   that where they've done something where

01:07:06   they seem to favor revenue per user /

01:07:08   just getting as many people using their

01:07:10   things as possible

01:07:11   yeah so I don't know what do you think

01:07:15   about you know so it sounds like we know

01:07:19   maps are coming

01:07:21   seems like facebook as well it's going

01:07:23   to be a part of this i know you're not a

01:07:25   facebook user at all but now this is a

01:07:28   you know this is this is the state.the

01:07:30   of the ecosystem right now so many apps

01:07:33   use facebook connect to be able to do it

01:07:36   and it seems yet I i think if they could

01:07:39   get facebook to agreed to terms that

01:07:42   Apple considers appropriate privacy wise

01:07:47   yep that it's done deal I'd i think so

01:07:51   and I think I you know at one thing you

01:07:56   have to remember too is that Apple

01:07:58   really operates on a yearly schedule

01:08:00   they really do things annually they

01:08:02   don't roll out a lot of stuff other than

01:08:04   bug fixes in you know in between and so

01:08:08   a year ago is when they baked in the

01:08:10   Twitter star if in the US and it was

01:08:13   sort of you know I think it was half

01:08:14   because they thought twitter is good and

01:08:16   that would be useful for iOS and I think

01:08:18   it was half a message to facebook of

01:08:21   well we'll show you stop saying to them

01:08:24   you know you don't agree to our Terms

01:08:26   well these guys are you know they're

01:08:28   nipping at your heels so you know one

01:08:31   year later I wouldn't be surprised at

01:08:33   all if you know I think as a negotiating

01:08:35   tactic a one year head start of built-in

01:08:38   social integration on iOS you know is

01:08:40   enough to maybe get facebook to budge on

01:08:42   the terms that they were offering which

01:08:44   by all accounts

01:08:45   and that you know you i think you and i

01:08:46   both have you know pretty high level and

01:08:48   info on that it was you know more or

01:08:50   less came down to their facebooks bottom

01:08:52   line on the terms they wanted from Apple

01:08:54   was Apple would not agree to not about

01:08:56   money it was about privacy and private

01:08:59   chef right so I i wouldn't be surprised

01:09:01   at all I I think that's definitely

01:09:02   happen i think it's i think it sticks

01:09:05   out more now on iOS 5 that there's one

01:09:09   and only one third party social

01:09:11   integration you know that was like this

01:09:13   this section in the settings apps that

01:09:15   seems like it would naturally be suited

01:09:17   through a couple of them and it's just

01:09:20   one I Twitter and you know

01:09:25   coincidentally tonight Facebook's like

01:09:26   having this last-minute event looks like

01:09:28   to launch what they're calling their app

01:09:31   center which is which is fascinating

01:09:33   because it's uh it's actually leaked out

01:09:35   a little bit and it's gone live in their

01:09:37   facebook app on their off facebook iOS

01:09:39   app even it's basically on the side

01:09:42   panel they knew how they have this new

01:09:44   area that's called App Center where they

01:09:46   basically have their own app store but

01:09:48   it's not their app store it's really

01:09:50   pointing to mobile apps at least on you

01:09:52   know it's kind of I think the idea is to

01:09:54   be platform-agnostic so it's on android

01:09:56   2.2 android apps if it's on iOS points

01:09:58   iOS apps that the web it can point to a

01:10:00   web app but you know this this might

01:10:03   come into play with kind of these

01:10:04   negotiations as well because you know as

01:10:07   we're seeing now Facebook is a pretty

01:10:09   important driver for growth for a lot of

01:10:12   these apps you know like we had all the

01:10:14   video camera apps that were kind of

01:10:15   exploding for awhile mainly because of

01:10:17   the way that they were using facebook

01:10:19   open graph and now you know one of the

01:10:21   big complaints

01:10:22   that's only going to get louder is about

01:10:24   app discovery and apple but chomping you

01:10:27   know there are supposedly trying to work

01:10:29   on things with that but Facebook can do

01:10:31   a pretty good job of it i think just

01:10:33   given the social data that they have

01:10:35   about what apps your friends are using

01:10:37   and so maybe Apple maybe they do

01:10:40   something a little bit more with that to

01:10:42   to kind of make it as a new discovery

01:10:44   layer for apps themselves because all it

01:10:45   does is kick you into the app store it's

01:10:47   just a new layer on top of it

01:10:50   yeah I'd I definitely not an act that

01:10:53   harkens all the way back to the original

01:10:55   rumors that pain was designed with

01:10:57   writing is playing over

01:10:58   his right mind and I don't get these

01:11:00   recommendations and and find out new

01:11:02   music that people you know we're using

01:11:04   based on your facebook friendships and

01:11:07   connections

01:11:08   yeah and so and that may have sunk that

01:11:11   ship before it even started

01:11:13   you know there are those lines one thing

01:11:16   I've noticed i have noticed is recently

01:11:17   and it's partly because I don't know if

01:11:20   I notice it more because I don't even

01:11:22   have a facebook account or if it's just

01:11:24   my branding sensitivity but I've noticed

01:11:26   more and more as i walk around the city

01:11:29   when I see like billboards and

01:11:32   advertisements like on the sides of

01:11:35   buildings or wherever you can put ads

01:11:36   like walking around I see an awful lot

01:11:38   of brands that instead of putting their

01:11:41   URL you know that it was put facebook

01:11:44   yep dot slash their name yep I including

01:11:48   one I forget who you didn't even print

01:11:50   facebook they just printed the f just

01:11:52   that Facebook f / their name

01:11:55   yeah and I thought that was that blew me

01:11:58   away and they didn't it wasn't next to

01:12:00   their URL it was the this is where to go

01:12:02   for more information

01:12:04   is facebook / brand name yeah i thought

01:12:07   the same thing that's a I don't really

01:12:09   know what that's all about facebook just

01:12:11   as a killer kind of partnership team to

01:12:14   be able to to get these guys to do it or

01:12:15   if there's some sort of data that

01:12:17   they're saying we're just kind of silly

01:12:19   now to have your own website when what

01:12:21   you really want is kind of data social

01:12:24   data that facebook is able to offer up

01:12:25   and help you kind of spread the word

01:12:27   about messages and stuff right now that

01:12:30   you can get them to follow you or like

01:12:31   you and then have a ongoing relationship

01:12:34   with them rather than one time they

01:12:36   visit your site look right one page and

01:12:39   whatever they remember they remember but

01:12:42   i still think it's very very powerful is

01:12:46   a powerful statement of Facebook's

01:12:48   influence

01:12:48   yeah you know while I have you here

01:12:50   because now your new gig your job is

01:12:53   really working as a you an angel

01:12:56   investor or vc vc vc yeah just doing

01:13:01   seed level investments of smaller kind

01:13:03   of angel sighs investments in a way but

01:13:05   yeah so I want you to explain to me the

01:13:08   facebook IPO picture

01:13:10   here's what I'd I don't understand why

01:13:12   it's being called a disaster

01:13:14   I don't understand it seems to me like

01:13:16   it must it's gone down so that's not

01:13:19   good but it seems to me like it was

01:13:20   mostly at least on day one it was priced

01:13:22   kind of right because this is my very

01:13:25   very lame and I I this is so out outside

01:13:27   my wheelhouse that maybe I'm just

01:13:29   totally off base is that it was like

01:13:32   what was it 30 $38 or 32 years that's

01:13:35   the way over 38 somebody but it seemed

01:13:37   to me like it if you were on the inside

01:13:39   you got it you know if you there is one

01:13:42   of the banks that was doing the IPO you

01:13:43   you got it 38 bucks and if you jumped on

01:13:46   it right when the bell rang if you can

01:13:47   get your trade-in then you are getting

01:13:49   it at the same price that seems fair to

01:13:52   me

01:13:52   yep yeah its own people want people

01:13:55   wanted to double that seems to me like

01:13:57   you're saying that it's cooked in favor

01:13:59   of the banks who got it at the price

01:14:01   before it doubled yes that's it that's

01:14:03   exactly right i mean my my take on it is

01:14:05   is exactly pretty much what you said

01:14:07   that this you know that the perception

01:14:09   of it is not the reality the reality is

01:14:11   that Facebook made as much money as

01:14:13   possible as they could have off of an

01:14:15   IPO and say you know say they had priced

01:14:18   it at 15 or something and then you know

01:14:22   it opened at 35 that would have been it

01:14:24   wow you know everyone's like wow there's

01:14:26   so much demand for that this these

01:14:28   facebook shares whatever but Facebook

01:14:29   would have made actually half the money

01:14:31   because they would have only sold you

01:14:34   know half and half as much half uh for

01:14:37   what they could have uh basically and so

01:14:39   Facebook came out very well from this

01:14:42   and and you know I think that they're

01:14:43   all looking at this right now and they

01:14:45   just don't care i mean they had to go

01:14:46   public it was kind of an annoying thing

01:14:48   for them to do for a while you know they

01:14:50   kind of rallied around rallied around at

01:14:52   the end and they did raise you know it

01:14:53   something like 16 billion dollars as a

01:14:56   result of it but they did as well as

01:14:58   they possibly could

01:14:59   it's a it's a loss really for you know

01:15:01   the people who are looking to get a what

01:15:04   typically happens at least with tech

01:15:06   stocks you know where its there's a pop

01:15:08   and so people want to get out and a 1

01:15:10   get the 22 you know fifty percent

01:15:13   whatever it's going to be pop and then

01:15:14   sell quickly and they're pissed off

01:15:17   because that didn't happen and instead

01:15:19   you know they ended up losing money if

01:15:20   you try to do that but it's a silly

01:15:21   thing I mean if

01:15:23   you're gonna buy facebook stock first of

01:15:24   all you know there's a lot of talk right

01:15:26   now that the financials aren't strong

01:15:28   and and that there was some you know

01:15:30   like insider knowledge about it that was

01:15:31   only testing certain people and you know

01:15:33   those things will get looked into and

01:15:34   maybe there's something to that I don't

01:15:36   it sounds like nothing that actually

01:15:37   happened was illegal it was just kind of

01:15:39   that's the way it works right now you

01:15:41   know certain morgan stanley led the IPO

01:15:43   and they let certain people know like

01:15:44   what data they had but the reality of

01:15:46   the situation is if you were going to

01:15:48   buy facebook stock

01:15:50   you know you really should have known

01:15:51   what you were buying to begin with it's

01:15:53   not like any of this data is really

01:15:54   secret or kind of hard to understand you

01:15:57   just need to do a little bit of homework

01:15:58   and if you're buying facebook stock you

01:16:00   really should be buying it at the you

01:16:02   know the IPO price and thinking it's a

01:16:04   long-term bet not some sort of stock pop

01:16:06   thing we're just in this we've been in

01:16:08   this mentality of these these tech IPOs

01:16:10   throughout the past however long you

01:16:12   know decade now where these things

01:16:14   initially pop and everyone is expecting

01:16:15   the pop and so when it didn't pop people

01:16:17   are wondering you know what does that

01:16:19   mean is is is everything crashing is a

01:16:22   you know is this the end of of tech

01:16:24   itself but you know right now the stock

01:16:26   and looking at $26 you know I i would

01:16:29   bet in a year it will be you know

01:16:30   somewhere around the IPO level maybe

01:16:32   above it and that's just the way it's

01:16:34   going to be and so you know Facebook

01:16:35   grows into a more mature company and

01:16:37   they start producing you know more

01:16:39   substantial revenues that justify you

01:16:43   know the pricing of it i think people in

01:16:45   the tech press in general is just you

01:16:48   know obviously they like to play up the

01:16:50   story that it was a huge failure there

01:16:51   were certain things that nasdaq really

01:16:53   screwed up on and and that's certainly

01:16:55   uh is is going to play out over the next

01:16:58   several months when more companies start

01:17:00   to IPO do they go with the new york

01:17:01   stock exchange instead of nasdaq seems

01:17:04   like that was part of the piling on

01:17:06   nowhere that's not what that's not

01:17:07   facebook's fault i mean i guess you can

01:17:09   follow them for going with the nasdaq

01:17:11   rather than going with the new york

01:17:12   stock exchange but it but it's really a

01:17:14   it's sort of like a piling on know where

01:17:16   i saw that there's this sort of a and

01:17:19   again i'm not really i don't use

01:17:22   facebook but i actually really I'm kind

01:17:24   of fascinated by the company and i am

01:17:26   very interested in in Zuckerberg because

01:17:29   I feel like he is one of those rare guys

01:17:31   he's like a Bill Gates Steve Jobs rap

01:17:35   once-in-a-lifetime sort of our

01:17:37   once-in-a-generation unique individual

01:17:40   yeah and if I were I didn't you know I

01:17:44   don't have any money in facebook but if

01:17:46   I did it wouldn't be because i like the

01:17:47   product would be because i'd like to

01:17:48   place a bet on him all right term and I

01:17:51   still think I think that's exactly why

01:17:53   amazon has such a high what's the what's

01:17:57   the price to earnings yeah

01:17:59   price-to-earnings right is people

01:18:01   betting on Jeff Bezos yes which i think

01:18:04   is a smart bat I would you know I don't

01:18:06   have amazon stock either but I would you

01:18:08   know I wouldn't mind having some amazigh

01:18:09   certainly would think about it and if I

01:18:11   did it would be betting on Jeff Bezos

01:18:13   because I think he's very smart he's

01:18:15   that type of guy and that's a good way

01:18:16   to think about it because you look at

01:18:18   Amazon's business and you see like the

01:18:19   you know the prophets are following

01:18:21   actually because of some of the hardware

01:18:23   stuff they're kind of trying to do and

01:18:25   and the margins aren't great at all but

01:18:27   it's a total long-term bet they'll just

01:18:29   be able to kinda outmaneuver everyone

01:18:32   coming their way and facebook now you

01:18:34   know kinda outmaneuver in the space that

01:18:36   they're in and that will kind of be like

01:18:38   we're just talking about the brands that

01:18:39   are using it as their as a web page

01:18:41   there now like a part of the fabric of

01:18:43   the web that's kinda irreplaceable and

01:18:45   some people don't agree with that of

01:18:46   course and so but that's that would be

01:18:48   the bet you're making I think you know

01:18:51   you kind of hit upon it to the other the

01:18:53   other kind of backlash element i guess

01:18:55   the facebook IPO was the fact that

01:18:57   they're the price-earnings ratios insane

01:18:59   and their market cap you know was gonna

01:19:01   be about a hundred billion and now it's

01:19:03   closer like 60 billion or something like

01:19:05   that and you think about that in

01:19:06   relation to these other companies that

01:19:08   are making you know like Apple and

01:19:10   Google that are making the way way more

01:19:13   more revenue and of course profit and

01:19:17   you know

01:19:17   Facebook's not that far away a hundred

01:19:19   billion from google which is what it I

01:19:22   think 200 billion and so like how can

01:19:25   you possibly justify it just happens to

01:19:27   be that you know Facebook had the

01:19:28   biggest tech IPO of all time it was a

01:19:30   there was a lot of pent-up demand for it

01:19:33   and now that people you know have sensed

01:19:35   that there's there's some way that they

01:19:37   can spend this is a failure its kinda

01:19:39   you know everyone likes to be the first

01:19:41   to call you know the the the top of the

01:19:43   market and now it's going down from here

01:19:45   but it just doesn't seem like that's

01:19:46   really what I got Diana

01:19:48   glad to hear that from you because i had

01:19:50   just had this sense that the press

01:19:51   coverage was like the knives were ready

01:19:53   to come out right did anything but shoot

01:19:55   way up and then if they just piled on

01:19:58   with the fact that there were technical

01:19:59   problems on a stacks and that they just

01:20:02   threw in and it just became this this

01:20:04   very neat narrative that facebook's IPO

01:20:07   is a disaster right and it means it was

01:20:11   certainly not a disaster for them with

01:20:12   right and then anything that could

01:20:14   possibly fit into that basic story

01:20:17   the facebook IPO disaster they would

01:20:18   just throw in everything else gets gets

01:20:20   tossed into that pile and I just I

01:20:22   thought it was sort of a we were just

01:20:23   waiting to jump on you think much like

01:20:26   antennagate was for apple

01:20:28   yes we do this right wait and we've been

01:20:30   waiting for something like this and yeah

01:20:32   we're gonna beat it until it's dead and

01:20:34   the unfortunate side effect of some of

01:20:36   this is that you know there are

01:20:37   companies now we're going to be a little

01:20:39   hesitant to go public and maybe that's

01:20:42   right maybe you know maybe they should

01:20:43   be hesitant more hesitant to go public

01:20:45   you know you that you look at groupon

01:20:48   and some of these other ones that are

01:20:49   struggling you know but they're they're

01:20:52   hesitant not for maybe the right reason

01:20:54   you know they're hesitant because they

01:20:55   don't want to get the same kind of press

01:20:57   backlash you know that their Facebook

01:20:58   out which is which is totally ridiculous

01:21:00   and you know what there's not much

01:21:03   really you can do about that but it's

01:21:05   yeah here's the other thing that I see

01:21:07   is big picture wise at the the Silicon

01:21:12   Valley poker table

01:21:14   yep is you know in that whole enemy of

01:21:18   the enemy is my friend mindset is that

01:21:20   google is to me the new microsoft we're

01:21:24   the ones who are sticking her fingers

01:21:27   and everybody else's pies

01:21:28   yep and not making any friends and

01:21:32   spoiling the friends that they had right

01:21:35   because only I still it's so hard to

01:21:37   think I mean that in terms of how far

01:21:39   this industry can go in five years is

01:21:41   that when he I phone was introduced

01:21:43   there's Eric Schmidt invited up onstage

01:21:45   back-slapping with Steve Jobs talking

01:21:48   about what great almost sibling

01:21:50   companies Google and Apple are apples

01:21:52   doing their thing we're doing our thing

01:21:54   and

01:21:54   it's totally separate where we love each

01:21:56   other and we're so happy to have a

01:21:57   couple of services on the iphone this is

01:21:59   gonna be great and now look where they

01:22:01   are

01:22:01   I the way I see it is google has really

01:22:04   made enemies of everybody

01:22:06   yeah and it just makes a lot more

01:22:09   natural to see something like Facebook

01:22:11   integration in iOS you know and and some

01:22:14   significant keynote time monday devoted

01:22:17   to that

01:22:18   yeah i do i I along those lines I wonder

01:22:21   if you know Apple back-channel was

01:22:24   talking you know with facebook and kind

01:22:25   of making sure that they get some sort

01:22:28   of not exclusive partnership but kind of

01:22:30   you know better access than facebook is

01:22:33   willing to give to to something like

01:22:36   Android and you know while Google and

01:22:40   Facebook are at odds for other reasons

01:22:42   and social and kind of different areas

01:22:46   right now

01:22:48   facebook is really they still have to

01:22:50   play nice with android because so much

01:22:52   of their businesses mobile and android

01:22:54   is a large part of the mobile ecosystem

01:22:56   and so they have to play nice with it

01:22:58   but I do wonder if there's some sort of

01:23:00   behind-the-scenes thing going on with it

01:23:02   with Apple and Facebook where it's a

01:23:03   little bit you know of an anti google

01:23:06   tilt going on right now I just see that

01:23:08   everybody's everybody's an enemy with

01:23:10   google and that you know and it

01:23:12   yeah and he is and it's one of those

01:23:15   things like we talked about earlier

01:23:16   where they just don't you know you talk

01:23:18   to them and they don't have that they

01:23:19   just don't seem to be aware of this even

01:23:22   though like it's not like a big secret

01:23:23   and anyone can see it you can talk to

01:23:25   people who basically say it

01:23:27   everyone is sort of if their not

01:23:30   Google's enemy right now they feel like

01:23:32   Google's going to move in their space

01:23:33   because google just keeps doing that

01:23:35   over and over and over again now you

01:23:37   know the best relationship they have I

01:23:39   guess is with Samsung because Samsung's

01:23:41   the one company doing well off of

01:23:43   Android but you know we'll see what

01:23:45   happens with this motorola stuff you

01:23:47   know that could go sideways as well you

01:23:50   know and it does seem like they're

01:23:51   oblivious about it I really attached to

01:23:53   me as a difference for Microsoft was the

01:23:56   enemy of everybody in the values and

01:23:57   Microsoft seem very self aware of their

01:24:00   role you know that they were you know

01:24:01   making enemies of everybody and anybody

01:24:04   was making a profit at Microsoft was

01:24:07   going to try to

01:24:07   deal that market right huh and they

01:24:09   seemed very aware of that where Google

01:24:11   does not google seems to think that

01:24:12   they're still everybody's friend but

01:24:14   everybody else kind of hates him

01:24:16   yeah it's a very weird sense of

01:24:17   entitlement like at a company level

01:24:20   seems to be going on just on I just

01:24:23   trying to wrap this up we've been we've

01:24:25   been going for about an hour and

01:24:25   happening any other WWDC predictions

01:24:28   what you think about my idea of apple TV

01:24:30   apps i've got nothing I have no inside

01:24:33   dope on that nobody has wished me

01:24:34   anything to me about that the only hint

01:24:37   i have of that the only the only actual

01:24:39   info is that I know that the new Apple

01:24:40   TV has bluetooth for hardware right in

01:24:43   there yep

01:24:44   and yet apples not using that your

01:24:46   anything yet

01:24:47   yep that's that's true and the new the

01:24:50   latest iPhone has it as well right right

01:24:53   okay so right yeah i don't know i

01:24:56   haven't heard anything either about any

01:24:58   kind of apple TV app stuff i mean it's

01:25:00   gotta happen eventually of course and

01:25:02   they already have some element of it you

01:25:03   know that they have their own apps that

01:25:05   they built for netflix and an MLB and

01:25:08   the different ones you know that would

01:25:11   be that would be a pretty awesome thing

01:25:14   if they did that because everyone's been

01:25:15   waiting for it and now the time it would

01:25:18   be kind of interesting too because it's

01:25:20   it's a you know right after the CES

01:25:22   stuff where we had the kind of the game

01:25:24   systems out there and you got 110 is

01:25:27   doing now and Microsoft is kinda wait

01:25:29   until next year to do their their new

01:25:31   system sony and so there is kind of this

01:25:33   this intro to the market right here and

01:25:36   if and if Apple allows apps and you know

01:25:39   presumably a lot of those would be games

01:25:40   again that could be a fascinating a way

01:25:44   to play it

01:25:45   I don't know if that if that will happen

01:25:46   or not but yeah I mean they did just

01:25:49   redesigned the interface right when did

01:25:51   that come out like that was at the ipad

01:25:55   event so yeah and the februari yep so

01:25:59   and one thing I've noticed with that and

01:26:01   it's gone to a more iOS home screen type

01:26:03   thing read these little rectangles that

01:26:05   look like apps been studying squares

01:26:07   their little 69 rectangles upon and one

01:26:11   thing I know about that is just like the

01:26:12   original iphone where it was like an

01:26:14   uneven number of icons that there

01:26:17   because it yes yes there's only like one

01:26:19   in the

01:26:20   bottom row which gym bag for those other

01:26:22   three spots to be filled in

01:26:23   yeah which didn't necessarily imply

01:26:26   third-party app right it could be an

01:26:28   asshole or a good writer party right but

01:26:31   I can't help but think that the apple TV

01:26:33   is the same way where it's an uneven

01:26:35   number of those rectangles where it just

01:26:37   seems like it's almost like that blank

01:26:39   spaces a dot dot dot it's like an

01:26:40   ellipsis that's like more to come

01:26:44   well I do think like when you you just

01:26:46   look at the market itself and you see

01:26:48   like you know Microsoft now there's this

01:26:50   there's this big Microsoft's big push it

01:26:54   in the press has been that that xbox is

01:26:56   winning the battle for the living room

01:26:57   right and so they're doing a you know

01:27:00   they are doing all these partnerships

01:27:02   with places like ESPN and so it seems

01:27:06   natural that apple would also have some

01:27:08   sort of ESPN you know watch now

01:27:10   partnership thing with apple TV and so

01:27:13   maybe maybe that's something that gets

01:27:15   announced ahead of a rather than like a

01:27:19   a platform for it right now but I also

01:27:22   liked the idea and I think you put this

01:27:25   forward since in a subtle way at least

01:27:27   that if they do get a platform out there

01:27:30   now and they get developers developing

01:27:32   for it then if and when they do do you

01:27:35   know their actual foray into the space

01:27:37   in a more meaningful way they'll have

01:27:39   apps they're ready to go and that's like

01:27:41   you know they're seating their own

01:27:42   victory right there right

01:27:44   I can't help but think that if they do

01:27:46   it there's got to be some kind of new

01:27:47   hardware maybe not i I feel like this is

01:27:50   the new Apple TV that does 1080p it only

01:27:52   four months old so they can't just say

01:27:53   that was obsolete but it's kinda like a

01:27:55   remote or something that uses Bluetooth

01:27:57   there's got to be better input than the

01:27:59   the ir remote well those those those sk

01:28:02   use it got leaked yesterday or something

01:28:04   9to5 mac Adam like there were some

01:28:06   interesting things in there right there

01:28:07   were things that weren't known

01:28:08   necessarily right there could be some

01:28:10   kind of some sort of hardware thing

01:28:12   that's totally off the radar that's like

01:28:14   you know a cheap accessories so yeah

01:28:15   maybe it is something like some kind of

01:28:18   new remote control to specifically

01:28:19   control apps in a in a different way and

01:28:22   then yeah go ahead

01:28:24   well you go ahead and go in what what do

01:28:26   you think about you know that I think I

01:28:30   think we can all assume we're not going

01:28:31   to see new iphone hardware because you

01:28:33   know the

01:28:33   precedent has been set now for that in

01:28:35   the fall but if you know as all

01:28:38   indications seem to be lining up that

01:28:40   there is going to be this new screen

01:28:42   size

01:28:43   how do you think they're going to play

01:28:44   that with with ios6 I think you've said

01:28:46   before that they'll like do it in a way

01:28:49   that's not obvious but they'll have

01:28:51   something to kind of drop a hint that

01:28:54   something will be changing about it how

01:28:55   do you think they do that I either

01:28:57   either not at all and just trust that

01:29:00   when they do the announcement in

01:29:02   september-october whenever the new phone

01:29:04   comes out that they'll say look this

01:29:07   phone is shipping next week and

01:29:10   developers go to you know blah blah blah

01:29:13   you know address and find out how to

01:29:15   update your apps only have these guys

01:29:17   here with us who we've brought in a

01:29:19   month ago and they've updated their apps

01:29:21   and you know right to talk about how

01:29:22   they spent 15 minutes and and got their

01:29:25   apt to do the new size or you know I got

01:29:27   my conjecture was that they could do it

01:29:29   in the context of made notifications

01:29:33   right yeah like being flexible about

01:29:35   making room for that doing it webos

01:29:37   style like I know a lot of people hail

01:29:39   the the multitasking interface of webos

01:29:43   is like the but the card thing which I

01:29:46   never really liked I I didn't like that

01:29:48   I thought it was confusing the way that

01:29:50   I was not a fan of that but I thought

01:29:51   the best idea and webos was the way

01:29:53   their notifications didn't cover contact

01:29:55   content that they shrunk the content and

01:29:58   stood there

01:29:59   yep i thought that was the best idea and

01:30:01   I think it's silly having seen it the

01:30:03   way that on iOS that they the banners

01:30:05   cover-up content so I think they could

01:30:08   do it that way they can get you to be

01:30:10   flexible although it doesn't cover the

01:30:12   horizontal case where when you're

01:30:13   holding the phone sideways where I

01:30:16   doesn't explain why you'd want to be

01:30:17   flexible horizontally so I don't know

01:30:20   that is a mystery to me

01:30:21   I think bottom line is I totally believe

01:30:24   Tim Cook's line at the de confĂ©rences

01:30:30   last week that they're doubling down on

01:30:31   secrecy

01:30:32   I I don't think anything is I don't

01:30:34   think things have ever been is tight at

01:30:36   cupertino i've been following the

01:30:38   company the only place that leaks is

01:30:40   Asia it's the supply chain so all then

01:30:43   there and I debt out a little bit

01:30:44   outside apples control right so like

01:30:46   these faceplate

01:30:47   and stuff like that that leak from

01:30:49   manufacturing in China that's a little

01:30:52   bit outside their control the stuff

01:30:53   that's completely in their control the

01:30:55   stuff that is actually happening in

01:30:56   cupertino california it has never been

01:30:59   more tight-lipped and and the best

01:31:00   example of that is mountain-lion I mean

01:31:02   mountain lion came out of the blue

01:31:03   yeah i mean i remember talking to you on

01:31:05   the phone yeah we're trying to guess

01:31:07   what it would be right like a day or two

01:31:09   before those briefings started in

01:31:11   February i believe it was right

01:31:14   I februari January whatever that was and

01:31:18   you know number one there's the game of

01:31:21   hey did you get the call you know yet i

01:31:24   did I don't think I shoot right and then

01:31:26   it's I get feel like then we can you

01:31:28   know we still can't talk a lot but we

01:31:29   can like times they give any idea what

01:31:31   this is a pound and it's like we're both

01:31:33   like new no idea

01:31:34   yeah i think the best guess was retina

01:31:36   yeah right no max at the time exactly

01:31:39   that was that was definitely my best

01:31:41   guess and i think that was your best

01:31:42   guests to around know you thats it's

01:31:44   just a perfect and so I'm actually happy

01:31:46   about this right in a way that I

01:31:48   actually feel like I know less about

01:31:50   what's going to be announced monday at

01:31:52   WCC than I have in years and I couldn't

01:31:54   be happier about it i'm gonna makes me

01:31:56   just look forward to it

01:31:57   yeah it makes it I'm it makes it really

01:31:59   exciting that you know on the you're

01:32:01   right that of course you know Apple

01:32:03   can't do all that much to stop the the

01:32:05   hardware stuff that kind of gets up from

01:32:07   the third party suppliers over in Asia

01:32:09   but like iOS like I feel like you know I

01:32:13   heard a little bit about about Facebook

01:32:15   heard a little bit about maps but that

01:32:17   was the maps thing was only after

01:32:19   someone else had heard something and so

01:32:21   you could kind of you know put feelers

01:32:22   out there for what's out there but i

01:32:24   have no idea anything else you know you

01:32:25   know that there's going to be other

01:32:26   major changes and there's nothing really

01:32:28   out there no one's talking about it and

01:32:30   I kind of my gut feeling is that it's

01:32:31   kind of going to be a big peanut that

01:32:33   they've got a lot to announce and we

01:32:35   just don't know what it is yet

01:32:37   does it compare and contrast to last

01:32:38   year where they actually put out a press

01:32:41   release the week before where they said

01:32:44   what they were going to cover

01:32:45   yeah it was very unusual yeah they even

01:32:48   in fact even like pretty much tip the

01:32:50   beans on iCloud I don't think they not

01:32:52   sure that they they minded but they said

01:32:54   apples upcoming cloud-based did they do

01:32:57   that do it you have any good reason for

01:32:59   why now like looking

01:33:01   back at it like they did like say that

01:33:03   they were going to iCloud there had been

01:33:04   a lot of rumors about that I clouds

01:33:06   coming but it's like why is it is it

01:33:09   acceptable for me to say I was right

01:33:12   is that gonna add is that self-serving I

01:33:14   think I were right when they did it last

01:33:16   year when I link to their PR and daring

01:33:18   fireball my guess was and I think in

01:33:20   hindsight it was exactly right

01:33:21   was that it was specifically to set the

01:33:25   stage for no hardware announcements

01:33:27   ah right ok yeah right to make it clear

01:33:30   to everybody we're gonna tell you what

01:33:32   we're going to talk about just so that

01:33:34   everybody will know we're not going to

01:33:35   do a new phone because you have done

01:33:37   this new phone in this vets the entire

01:33:39   good point

01:33:39   they uh they needed pretty either your

01:33:42   they wanted

01:33:43   yeah my guess is that jobs hated doing

01:33:46   that PR yeah

01:33:48   ah but i think he agreed that they had

01:33:51   to CNU yeah because just imagine what

01:33:54   the backlash would have been had it been

01:33:56   set up that well we get a new iphone

01:33:58   every year and wait a minute there's no

01:34:00   new iphone this year and no one had any

01:34:02   idea and that's the surprise that

01:34:03   there's nothing and you know this is the

01:34:06   downfall of Apple Apple slipping that

01:34:08   you know like what's what's happening

01:34:09   here because the one thing that that I i

01:34:12   find myself losing track of sometimes

01:34:14   and it's just a way to Center myself

01:34:16   covering the company is to keep in mind

01:34:19   that i get excited about cool new stuff

01:34:21   that Apple does no matter what if it's I

01:34:23   think it's cool it's new i get excited

01:34:24   about I'm interested in it but there's a

01:34:26   big difference between some of the stuff

01:34:27   they do some of the other stuff which is

01:34:29   is it something that they're selling or

01:34:32   is it just something they're improving

01:34:34   right so last year's thing was mostly it

01:34:36   was it

01:34:37   that's the thing is it was nothing that

01:34:39   they were going to sell like iCloud is

01:34:41   something they just gave to everybody

01:34:43   right and so financially you know and

01:34:46   that's it's after you know never forget

01:34:48   that it's you know it's all about the

01:34:50   money i feel like this year it's going

01:34:54   to be about stuff that they're selling

01:34:55   or at least a big part of it

01:34:57   yeah and that's a I mean have they ever

01:35:00   updated every single mac in their line

01:35:03   at the exact same time

01:35:05   no never and so that's a and there and

01:35:09   the best part about that is that it

01:35:10   probably still won't be the focal point

01:35:12   of the keynote because iOS is

01:35:14   you know so much bigger right yeah I

01:35:17   definitely think I think it'll probably

01:35:18   start out with the mac and then you know

01:35:20   and congratulations you know whatever

01:35:23   Mac you're using whatever one you like

01:35:25   guess what there's a new Retina version

01:35:26   of it i think so i think they're going

01:35:28   to do and then now we're gonna start to

01:35:30   the overview of mountain lion again you

01:35:33   know they like to do ice those the 10

01:35:34   things or whatever that uh that are that

01:35:36   are new and dif right and then yeah then

01:35:39   go to iOS yep

01:35:42   well I think that's a show I want to

01:35:44   thank our sponsors again excellent

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01:36:08   find out more about that at nice mohawk

01:36:11   dot-com happen to know that the

01:36:13   developer of IDA has in fact a very nice

01:36:16   mohawk

01:36:17   it's true i wonder if that's you know I

01:36:21   don't know if that's legal the Fiesta if

01:36:23   you could require all of your employees

01:36:24   to ever walk but that would be a good

01:36:27   one

01:36:28   I do know that Ben Ben Lachman know the

01:36:30   founder of the company does now he's

01:36:32   kind of stuck with I have to ask him

01:36:33   about that now that his name the company

01:36:35   nice mohawk I wonder if he's kind of

01:36:36   stuck with the haircut right 2060 still

01:36:38   have the Mohawk even though there's no

01:36:40   hair he has to get a hair hair implants

01:36:41   to to keep the Mohawk going great right

01:36:46   like it would have been in trouble for

01:36:47   apple if they were somehow that you know

01:36:49   named in 1978 after steve jobs then

01:36:52   thick luscious head full of hair

01:36:55   beautiful books with java

01:37:00   [Music]