00:00:05 ◼ ► Now wait before we can so we can start with the main topic we have to start with some follow up. Oh really. [TS]
00:00:16 ◼ ► Well well last time we were we were talking about being wrong on the Internet being on the internet so I was left out [TS]
00:00:22 ◼ ► now at the time we're recording this. The pod casts have not gone live so we haven't had any listener feedback. [TS]
00:00:29 ◼ ► It's like a secret still is and yes it is it is a very rich and the you and I know that this is just the two of us. [TS]
00:00:36 ◼ ► When I was editing the previous podcast I heard myself say something that I just I had to correct in this one so I made [TS]
00:00:52 ◼ ► Yes that's right I am responding to feedback from myself because you did something wrong in a video that being wrong. [TS]
00:00:58 ◼ ► and this is sort of delightful as a first up as a first follow up section is that I called the Economist The Economist [TS]
00:01:09 ◼ ► Right now as bad as it is because the economist makes a makes a very strong point about always calling themselves a [TS]
00:01:17 ◼ ► newspaper and so when they write opinion pieces they always say this newspaper I think you know whatever it is. [TS]
00:01:32 ◼ ► and so I would I have to say that as a first piece of follow up I would apologize to the economist for saying the [TS]
00:01:37 ◼ ► Economist magazine I should have said The Economist newspaper. It does look more like a magazine doesn't it. [TS]
00:01:44 ◼ ► Yeah if you ever get your hands on one it looks totally like a magazine which is why this is this is I think going to [TS]
00:01:48 ◼ ► be the problem with podcasts for us in the future you know in this in this little series is that I know that they call [TS]
00:01:55 ◼ ► themselves a newspaper but it looks so much like a magazine even though I know the correct thing. [TS]
00:02:01 ◼ ► I'm sure that's going to happen lots and I went to look it up and it originally was a newspaper [TS]
00:02:09 ◼ ► and so actually I saw an original copy of the original economist My library has one from eight hundred forty three [TS]
00:02:23 ◼ ► and then on their website they have a little thing about how they slowly transitioned into a magazine form [TS]
00:02:37 ◼ ► but I do find it interesting we've spent this law dealing with corrections in feedback from a podcast that no one's [TS]
00:02:45 ◼ ► Well yes that's why it would not surprise me if the later episodes of this little run are basically entirely feedback [TS]
00:03:07 ◼ ► and now this is just me I want you the listener to know that I actually reached out to audible dot com on purpose [TS]
00:03:21 ◼ ► and I feel like my entire life has just been bridged by their existence and I've been an audible user for many years. [TS]
00:03:27 ◼ ► As I'm recording this right now I'm about to go into a long weekend of animating my next video which is incredibly [TS]
00:03:34 ◼ ► tedious work and it is exactly the kind of thing that I just could not get through without something to listen to. [TS]
00:03:44 ◼ ► Now I would recommend something to you and that is one of my all time favorite audio books. [TS]
00:03:50 ◼ ► Stephen King's On Writing the book a sort of half a memoir and half Stephen King's advice on writing [TS]
00:03:55 ◼ ► but even if you're not a huge Stephen King fan it's a very interesting book and Steve. [TS]
00:04:02 ◼ ► and I also want to have this be my first on a recommendation because I think it's a great example of how audio books [TS]
00:04:10 ◼ ► I first read the paper version of On Writing many years ago I think when it first came out and it was good [TS]
00:04:16 ◼ ► But the version on Audible is actually narrated by Stephen King himself and I have to say it adds so much to the book. [TS]
00:04:24 ◼ ► He really puts a lot of emphasis on parts of the book which I didn't really notice the first time going through [TS]
00:04:30 ◼ ► but then by listening to his voice it's obvious that this is hugely important to him [TS]
00:04:39 ◼ ► and writing is just a perfect example of how the audio book has way more to offer than the dead tree edition so I [TS]
00:04:45 ◼ ► highly recommend it. And because audible are awesome you can listen to that for free. [TS]
00:04:50 ◼ ► You can get a free audiobook and a thirty day trial by signing up at Audible dot com slash hello internet. [TS]
00:04:58 ◼ ► Is how audible knows that you came from this podcast and so not only do you get yourself a free book [TS]
00:05:12 ◼ ► There will be a link in the description of the podcast if you just want to click it [TS]
00:05:15 ◼ ► but otherwise just type in audible dot com slash hello internet and get your free audiobook and thirty day trial. [TS]
00:05:21 ◼ ► OK that's enough from me in the future and now we're going to go back to the conversation about copyright. [TS]
00:05:30 ◼ ► Yes I think that's what we settled on for today's topic this is really interesting up from a this is really interesting [TS]
00:05:37 ◼ ► because this is this is a front I feel like I'm attacked on from both sides because as someone who creates content [TS]
00:05:45 ◼ ► and therefore has to use you know use material I can sort of tread into the copyright field in that way. [TS]
00:05:51 ◼ ► But then someone who actually creates content that I don't I can kind of be on the other on the receiving end of [TS]
00:06:00 ◼ ► It's going to be interesting to see to hear what positions we may or may not have on this. [TS]
00:06:04 ◼ ► Yeah I'm actually I'm actually very curious to hear where you stand on this issue yourself because I think you you [TS]
00:06:10 ◼ ► might deal with it much more directly than I do. So I'm not I'm not exactly sure where to start. [TS]
00:06:19 ◼ ► I think we should say a good point is the people who may not know your position is quite well known on this I guess [TS]
00:06:28 ◼ ► And before we before we had this chat I admitted to you that I hadn't watched the video [TS]
00:06:33 ◼ ► and then so I went to have a quick look at it and it turns out I had watched the video. [TS]
00:06:45 ◼ ► and it's perhaps not best for me to capture a lot of them do you want to encapsulate the essence of your argument in [TS]
00:06:53 ◼ ► OK Well that is going to have to be embarrassing because I watch my own video this morning because I couldn't I [TS]
00:06:58 ◼ ► couldn't remember the video very well to be honest I was the only one you know what I remember complaining about some [TS]
00:07:04 ◼ ► After you watch this thing and I have the unusual the unusual effect of watching this [TS]
00:07:14 ◼ ► I'm not sure that this was this was the best possible video to be made about copyright and so I look at that [TS]
00:07:24 ◼ ► and I'm actually when I was watching it today I thought I'm not sure what conclusion other people would draw. [TS]
00:07:32 ◼ ► After having watched this I having seen it I feel like I'm I I now think that I made much of a less clear point in that [TS]
00:07:41 ◼ ► video than the I think two years ago now. Me thought that I was making you want to do what I took from that. [TS]
00:07:50 ◼ ► Well that's how I'm trying to lead up to this is what do you think you could just ask you could have asked me out [TS]
00:07:54 ◼ ► and what do you what do you think I was saying in that I mean you made you made a lot of points as you did. [TS]
00:08:02 ◼ ► The two main things I took from one of which I quite agreed with and the other one I wouldn't say I disagreed with [TS]
00:08:15 ◼ ► and the one that I completely agreed with was that the argument for copyright in this increasingly this increasing [TS]
00:08:24 ◼ ► amount of protection for the creators of the content to have this what if you know rigorous copyright protection. [TS]
00:08:29 ◼ ► Their argument is spurious their argument that encourage the creation of more content is not a particularly valid [TS]
00:08:38 ◼ ► And I think you make that argument quite well and I can say that and I'm sure we might discuss that in a minute [TS]
00:08:44 ◼ ► but the other thing I took from him was yes I think it came across that you had this attitude that anyone should be [TS]
00:09:02 ◼ ► and that it almost came across that you felt that anyone should be able to create their own stories their own back [TS]
00:09:11 ◼ ► and the Star Wars universe would you know expand even more than it already has and. [TS]
00:09:31 ◼ ► and I actually sat there thinking why should everyone just be able to take the Star Wars universe [TS]
00:09:53 ◼ ► and I thought current me is not super convinced by previous muse arguments on that. [TS]
00:10:00 ◼ ► On that part of it as well because I was aware that I was I was talking about telling stories in the Star Wars universe [TS]
00:10:08 ◼ ► and I thought the same thing like I'm not convinced by this this was this this could have been better you know what if [TS]
00:10:20 ◼ ► So OK before before I say my explicit position I think I want to I want to just lay out a couple of things that we're [TS]
00:10:29 ◼ ► OK so so copyright is a kind of intellectual property and just for terms for the rest of the conversation right. [TS]
00:10:40 ◼ ► There are three main kinds of intellectual property rights intellectual property there's copyrights patents [TS]
00:10:48 ◼ ► and trademarks rights a trademark is like Coca-Cola right you can't sell soda and call it Coca-Cola. [TS]
00:10:56 ◼ ► That's a trademark. Nobody really has a problem with trademarks it doesn't really come up in a debate. [TS]
00:11:13 ◼ ► and in the United States you get about twenty years depending on what kind of thing you get a twenty year protection on [TS]
00:11:25 ◼ ► So not things like technology but you write a story and then you have the copyright for that story. Yeah. [TS]
00:11:34 ◼ ► Those are three kinds of things and I think here here is how I get to this position [TS]
00:11:43 ◼ ► and I think what I was if I was going to remake that video what I might try to mold into a more concise argument is [TS]
00:12:00 ◼ ► Spring I think about it this way so the Apple Corporation invented the i Phone in two thousand and seven. [TS]
00:12:08 ◼ ► What didn't happen is that you know they didn't like Steve Jobs didn't wander into the forest as a as a pure human with [TS]
00:12:19 ◼ ► no tools or anything and like carved from stone and nothing and i Phone right. And you know people would believe that. [TS]
00:12:26 ◼ ► But yeah right like he didn't bring it down from on the mountain you know just like wrought by his own greatness [TS]
00:12:33 ◼ ► and i Phone can only exist if you live in a world that has a certain amount of technology that has already progressed [TS]
00:12:40 ◼ ► to this point. So this is kind of standing on the shoulders of giants type argument. [TS]
00:12:47 ◼ ► and in the original keynote he actually has a little line where he's talking about Multi Touch you know the touching [TS]
00:12:53 ◼ ► the screen in multiple places and he literally says something like this is the i Phone [TS]
00:12:58 ◼ ► and you know yes we sure have patented the heck out of it. Yeah. Now the thing is with us. [TS]
00:13:08 ◼ ► I think that the comparison to think about is that we as a society have decided that patents only last twenty years. [TS]
00:13:16 ◼ ► And so yes it is going to expire. And the reason is because you didn't make it all of yourself. [TS]
00:13:29 ◼ ► and the limited nature of a patent means that at some point the work that you have done will be available for people in [TS]
00:13:38 ◼ ► the future to build on as well as I can. And I think it's really it's obvious if you talk about patents. [TS]
00:13:45 ◼ ► If you imagine a world where you know whatever the patents are for the i Phone or for the light bulb or for anything. [TS]
00:13:53 ◼ ► If you think about a world where they lasted as long as copyright lasts. Yeah. Which I. [TS]
00:14:00 ◼ ► At the time of this recording I think in the United States lifetime of the creator plus seventy years I think is a long [TS]
00:14:09 ◼ ► time. It's a very long time where you can immediately see how that would just destroy technological progress. [TS]
00:14:19 ◼ ► If Alexander Graham Bell patents the telephone were here you know one hundred fifty years later [TS]
00:14:24 ◼ ► and still only the bell Corp can produce all of the telephones in America you know the sort of you sort of said a [TS]
00:14:32 ◼ ► moment ago that the reason for the expiration of the patents was to kind of you know it's it's the debt you pay back to [TS]
00:14:39 ◼ ► those that came before. I see it more as preventing a whole bunch of dead ends everywhere you know. [TS]
00:14:50 ◼ ► Right that's that's another good point I think this is yet this is something which is important to society [TS]
00:15:01 ◼ ► So this that that's great right because I think the reason that copyrights are such a contentious issue. [TS]
00:15:11 ◼ ► At least in the world of the Internet right this is a thing that comes up all the time argument over copyright law [TS]
00:15:17 ◼ ► and it's because I think that creative works are similar to something like patents. [TS]
00:15:24 ◼ ► It's kind of similar to like a technological progress but it's not quite the same. [TS]
00:15:47 ◼ ► So there's a there's a great great great series of videos on You Tube called Everything is a remix by this guy Kirby [TS]
00:15:55 ◼ ► Ferguson I think is his last name. Have you seen it. I haven't. It's a third of it is really worth watching. [TS]
00:16:02 ◼ ► Yeah and he just he goes through a couple of fields he does music and he does movies [TS]
00:16:09 ◼ ► and something else a three part series and he shows for example he takes Star Wars as an example [TS]
00:16:17 ◼ ► and shows how the famous like opening crawls that go at an angle the opening introduction which is so iconically Star [TS]
00:16:23 ◼ ► Wars it was not first done in Star Wars it was done in these other space movies from earlier times [TS]
00:16:30 ◼ ► and he just shows how everything that you can you can find is built on stuff that came before it. [TS]
00:16:42 ◼ ► when he made the Star Wars movies in the Indiana Jones movies he was always very open about how much they droop [TS]
00:16:50 ◼ ► Yeah yeah this is something that I think is is really interesting is that people in the field are totally aware of this. [TS]
00:17:02 ◼ ► or people saying they're recreating scenes shot for shot from old movies. Yeah right. [TS]
00:17:05 ◼ ► You're building on the past and they almost take a pride in it and I like it. Yeah yeah. [TS]
00:17:11 ◼ ► And so to me there's a there's a similar kind of of almost like a societal debt the same way with patents right. [TS]
00:17:24 ◼ ► Or you know people who write books like the the world of literature depends on what has come before. [TS]
00:17:34 ◼ ► So it's almost like a tax is it almost like you know the price you pay from society enriching you enough to create [TS]
00:17:41 ◼ ► Harry Potter is that one day they get Harry Potter back. Well I really don't like the phrasing of of attacks. [TS]
00:17:51 ◼ ► It's explicitly a motive I'll give you now but that's that's why you're good at asking questions right. I do not I do. [TS]
00:18:06 ◼ ► Here's the thing that I think is easy to forget is that copyright is a is a constructed thing right. [TS]
00:18:21 ◼ ► Copyright is a temporary monopoly over the distribution of a creative work enforced by the government wherever you [TS]
00:18:35 ◼ ► and I think once you start talking about incentives on a governmental level you have to start thinking about what are [TS]
00:18:45 ◼ ► they for. I think without a doubt more artistic works are created because copyright exists. [TS]
00:18:54 ◼ ► Right which might not be the impression that everybody gets from my videos based on the comments. [TS]
00:19:05 ◼ ► Right and so people watch that video and they think that I am I am a copyright abolitionist is the usual term [TS]
00:19:13 ◼ ► and that is that is actually not my position at all I think that if there if there were no copyrights there would still [TS]
00:19:22 ◼ ► be artistic works created by people would still paint and write books and things like this [TS]
00:19:28 ◼ ► but I don't think that there would be as many large scale expensive projects brought to bear like a Star Wars right. [TS]
00:19:40 ◼ ► and I'm pretty sure that nobody no no studio would have invested the amount of money to [TS]
00:19:52 ◼ ► when the technology of distribution was horrific compared to how it is today it still wouldn't have made financial [TS]
00:19:58 ◼ ► sense to make it. If eaters could have just you know taken reels from each other and displayed it everywhere. [TS]
00:20:08 ◼ ► The problem that I have is with the functionally infinite position that copyright has now that basically copyright [TS]
00:20:20 ◼ ► but every time it's come up where something might start entering the public domain copyright has been extended another [TS]
00:20:26 ◼ ► ten twenty years you know whatever it is depending on the particular law so that that is the problem that I have with [TS]
00:20:32 ◼ ► it as I think we should have a limited copyright but I would definitely not be in favor of removing copyright entirely. [TS]
00:20:43 ◼ ► Do you have a number in mind here or are you just saying that the balance of power is inadequate. [TS]
00:20:53 ◼ ► When can I take your U.K. Video and upload it to my own channel. Right right right. [TS]
00:20:59 ◼ ► I don't I don't I'm not necessarily interested in arguing where the boundaries should be. [TS]
00:21:05 ◼ ► Yeah because I feel like any numbers that I would come up with would be just semi arbitrary right here. [TS]
00:21:14 ◼ ► and I also think it's a weird situation because the optimal number for someone like myself who depends on copyright for [TS]
00:21:20 ◼ ► a living on You Tube might be very different from a multi-million dollar multi-year film project like to get off of [TS]
00:21:34 ◼ ► and you know if you ask the studio executives It may turn out that they're actually counting on a ten year return on [TS]
00:21:43 ◼ ► So I guess it my intuitive feeling is that anything less than five years I would feel like that. [TS]
00:21:53 ◼ ► That seems very small and anything more than a hundred years would feel like Gosh that's a long time. Right right. [TS]
00:22:01 ◼ ► But between between those two boundaries I'm much more interested in just copyright being limited that I am in exactly [TS]
00:22:11 ◼ ► If if United States tomorrow said we're just setting Copyrighted one hundred years I would consider that a huge victory [TS]
00:22:18 ◼ ► I would think that would be great if they if there was an actual cutoff point for when things enter the public domain. [TS]
00:22:29 ◼ ► Like was it was a frustration you are having trying to source material for your own videos was it where you want to [TS]
00:22:36 ◼ ► write your own stuff like comical. What fun if you have a better quality about didn't it. [TS]
00:22:49 ◼ ► No no that was not the reason I had to look back at the exact timeline but that was around the point [TS]
00:22:59 ◼ ► and so I was running into copyright problems more often in the sense of limitations of things that just can't be used. [TS]
00:23:08 ◼ ► Sometimes that word just seemingly absurdly old stuff that still couldn't be used recently by some image you might want [TS]
00:23:20 ◼ ► Yeah the image is something that I come across the most often where you know it even trying to track down the person [TS]
00:23:30 ◼ ► but since I like to play it relatively safe you know find some image from you know one nine hundred thirty six you know [TS]
00:23:38 ◼ ► and you can't use that even though the photographer is almost certainly not around anymore because that still falls [TS]
00:23:46 ◼ ► under you know the copyright length in the United States. So I think that that can be partly partly a frustration. [TS]
00:24:00 ◼ ► Nations they these big baddies like you create content and presumably it gets appropriated sometimes inappropriately. [TS]
00:24:13 ◼ ► Oh yeah all the time and in my own in my own work I am I am like the big baddie in the scenario. [TS]
00:24:20 ◼ ► Much much more than I am the victim. Right so I I am really cautious about using anything under fair use rules. [TS]
00:24:50 ◼ ► The risks of being on the end of some kind of of copyright problem are are large but on the flip side though I [TS]
00:24:59 ◼ ► This happened today and this happens very often which is someone who is easy is what happens on You Tube [TS]
00:25:12 ◼ ► And that that happens very often and very often they upload it with ads turned on as well. [TS]
00:25:20 ◼ ► Right so now the video that I have made is on someone else's channel and they're running ads on top of it to try [TS]
00:25:32 ◼ ► Yes let's let's just say yes I'm not even entirely sure that that's always the explicit goal [TS]
00:25:41 ◼ ► and one of the things that frustrates me to no end is I this this phrase that I see all the time on the Internet which [TS]
00:25:49 ◼ ► I think is really interesting and it is copyright not intended you know and so some someone will upload the video [TS]
00:25:56 ◼ ► and then below in the description they will say. Copyright not intended. This video I didn't make it. [TS]
00:26:07 ◼ ► Yeah and maybe if you know it's a good day there's a link to my actual channel but very very rarely there. [TS]
00:26:12 ◼ ► Yeah I think it's especially hilarious if I find like a full feature length film uploaded somewhere you know so it's [TS]
00:26:23 ◼ ► and I see like oh Lord Of The Rings Return of the king uploaded by Jock dude seventy six right. [TS]
00:26:29 ◼ ► And in the description it says no copyright intended you know this this was made by Universal Pictures or whatever. [TS]
00:26:36 ◼ ► Gerry the coziest broadcast copy got no intended I'm going to be very disappointed in you. [TS]
00:26:46 ◼ ► And I think this is very interesting because I'm sure I'm going to take these people at their word [TS]
00:26:52 ◼ ► and that people think that copyright is a kind of attribution system right so I'm not taking the glory for my right [TS]
00:27:01 ◼ ► but I'm not taking the glory for making return of the King I just want to be clear I didn't make this last seven years [TS]
00:27:09 ◼ ► they went right for minute there I thought you were awesome. Yeah I think that's amazing Why don't you make more now. [TS]
00:27:25 ◼ ► and of course from Studio perspectives the power of copyright is really the control over distribution. Yes right. [TS]
00:27:36 ◼ ► And so this is where like I was saying before that that monopoly power from the government comes from. [TS]
00:27:55 ◼ ► Yeah that's how I make my living and that's that's where the power of copyright comes from. [TS]
00:28:06 ◼ ► Yeah I mean the thing is I do I do flag it right I will flag those for copyright you know and [TS]
00:28:17 ◼ ► and it's such it's a complicated issue because I used to try to much more than I do now I still do sometimes [TS]
00:28:29 ◼ ► and say you know hey I'm not sure if you're aware but I you know I would like you to take down the video. [TS]
00:28:41 ◼ ► Trying to keep track of who have I contacted How long has it been since I've heard from them. [TS]
00:28:46 ◼ ► Yeah and so this is where I do feel kind of like a jerk especially when it's obvious that it's on I'm like not a scam E. [TS]
00:28:55 ◼ ► Channel right it's on just some some person's channel about about some high school kid [TS]
00:29:00 ◼ ► or someone who you know is a fan of something. Yeah I do feel kind of bad about that but the problem is that this. [TS]
00:29:07 ◼ ► The reason I do take those things down is because they do represent a kind of threat to my ability to make a living [TS]
00:29:15 ◼ ► and it's that I have had videos of mine that are not on my channel that do go viral. Yeah right and that is just awful. [TS]
00:29:25 ◼ ► So I've had I've had videos of mine that were uploaded to other places that literally ended up getting hundreds of [TS]
00:29:35 ◼ ► That's why at this point if I come across it like I will flag those things you know especially if it's clearly a [TS]
00:29:41 ◼ ► but I just I do I do feel kind of like a jerk doing that even though I think that is the purpose of of copyright is to [TS]
00:29:54 ◼ ► It's a difficult situation especially for people who make sort of the kind of education. [TS]
00:30:01 ◼ ► and you in the night because it's people who say well you should just be glad that one hundred thousand people of Santa [TS]
00:30:19 ◼ ► and I think people people forget that and you know it's hard because like you say you are not looking [TS]
00:30:26 ◼ ► but I don't know if people realize that what do you what do you do under that circumstance that comes up with you. [TS]
00:30:33 ◼ ► Well I sort of sometimes I will flag it was that to be honest with the procedure that you put you through to complain [TS]
00:30:41 ◼ ► about someone re uploading a video machine or something or that is actually quite laborious [TS]
00:30:49 ◼ ► and I don't know one's really fancy filling out all the forms and I do know something you don't know. Now OK. [TS]
00:30:56 ◼ ► This is something we should discuss later is this is this too much minutia for the for the average listener that maybe [TS]
00:31:06 ◼ ► I use a program called Text expander which allows you to fill out forms like that automatically every time so I have it [TS]
00:31:14 ◼ ► all plugged in so I just have to hit a keyboard command and it basically fills up a whole form for me automatically. [TS]
00:31:24 ◼ ► when you start having to do a lot of these things you find a way to do it faster than we should do that as a podcast [TS]
00:31:31 ◼ ► one day. Great efficiencies because you're talking about other ones in the past that you did that I completely love. [TS]
00:31:36 ◼ ► We must make a note of that but anyway I imagine a lot to be the most awesome or the most boring episode ever. [TS]
00:31:45 ◼ ► but you know you generally flag it only I will flag it sometimes sometimes I mean I I mean I have to do the two [TS]
00:32:07 ◼ ► but I do have issues with fair use as well because the other thing that people seem to be quite keen on these days [TS]
00:32:19 ◼ ► and a face as though those words themselves are just the magic incantation that makes it very use Exactly [TS]
00:32:29 ◼ ► Right I think I think that is something people are really exploiting in an unfair way. [TS]
00:32:36 ◼ ► and again I don't think you know I think fair use has become the new way of saying well I couldn't possibly have made [TS]
00:32:49 ◼ ► and therefore once I reach the point where I can't do it myself it is fair for me to take it from someone else. [TS]
00:32:58 ◼ ► or the other thing I think people started doing is because you know some of us are in a position where we've managed to. [TS]
00:33:09 ◼ ► or exceptional people think Gee I'd love to use that in one of my videos that way that will help make me successful. [TS]
00:33:19 ◼ ► Say yes you know this is obviously the case for you know people like gaston and myself to an extent. [TS]
00:33:27 ◼ ► Oh yeah yeah some of the some of the stuff that you guys have made I mean that it. [TS]
00:33:31 ◼ ► That's some serious equipment to get those shots. They don't they don't just happen. [TS]
00:33:36 ◼ ► Yeah but then some I will just take this and say well I'm using this under fair use [TS]
00:33:40 ◼ ► when clearly that is using it because you know they think it's in their interest to have something exceptional in their [TS]
00:33:46 ◼ ► video and you know this is I think people don't really know what to do with face these days [TS]
00:33:54 ◼ ► and I certainly don't want to get into an argument with the sort of people who hide behind face because they tend to be. [TS]
00:34:02 ◼ ► but I do think these things pick is being a bit silly you know I mean I have used things on the ice [TS]
00:34:09 ◼ ► and I think there's a way to do it and why not. And some people are in the way not. [TS]
00:34:15 ◼ ► Yeah I mean I just I just pulled up the sort of the guidelines for fair use in the United States [TS]
00:34:42 ◼ ► Well guess what you're going to have a way harder time proving that that's fair use [TS]
00:34:52 ◼ ► Courts is whether or not the other person's use affects the market for the original material [TS]
00:35:02 ◼ ► and so I think that this example is like what happens to me where sometimes I see organizations use a section of my [TS]
00:35:11 ◼ ► Yeah right and maybe a couple you know seconds of my video would be totally fair use [TS]
00:35:23 ◼ ► That's an argument for saying like you have just appropriated the reason people would watch the thing in the first [TS]
00:35:29 ◼ ► place. Yeah. Or they're like with some of those slow motion videos that are amazing. Right. [TS]
00:35:38 ◼ ► And so if somebody else uses that that sounds a whole lot like it doesn't matter if it's only a two second clip if it's [TS]
00:35:46 ◼ ► the heart of what the original thing was that strongly counts against A possibly being fair use. [TS]
00:35:53 ◼ ► So I you know I try to when I use stuff I try really hard to keep those guidelines in mind and if I can. [TS]
00:36:04 ◼ ► Yeah and I looked through the guidelines and it's like OK I am using it for commercial which counts against me [TS]
00:36:10 ◼ ► but there is there is no there is no court in the United States who is ever going to argue that somebody watch my [TS]
00:36:17 ◼ ► copyright video and didn't feel the need to watch Star Wars because the opening note was in it. [TS]
00:36:23 ◼ ► Yeah I have not replaced or stolen the value from Star Wars by using that opening notes [TS]
00:36:34 ◼ ► but it's ultimately with the fair use stuff what makes it so hard is that there isn't a solid guide line that you can [TS]
00:36:42 ◼ ► use the ultimate arbiter as is a court you know a court of law and that's just uncomfortable for everybody. [TS]
00:36:55 ◼ ► Yeah it's pretty easy stealing stuff from you because you know we haven't got much money [TS]
00:37:00 ◼ ► and we don't we can't be employing lawyers I don't often see them stealing like you know a game seven of the World [TS]
00:37:08 ◼ ► Right I know they going to get it in the neck but they felt so pinch it from people here then I went to take them on. [TS]
00:37:18 ◼ ► Yeah I was going to say very quickly that the worst I will not name specific names for various reasons [TS]
00:37:30 ◼ ► So the online editions of newspapers Yeah are they are the the most shameless takers of You Tube contents I cannot [TS]
00:37:42 ◼ ► believe how shameless they are on a simple and I've got a nice little set of tricks they used to like every time. [TS]
00:37:49 ◼ ► Yeah like the whole I love one of my favorites is that I will take the video I like put it into their own player so [TS]
00:38:02 ◼ ► and say What the heck you doing you know at the very least could you embed the huge my You Tube video so that at least [TS]
00:38:14 ◼ ► They always rise and excite the make up every time every time it happened dozens of times. [TS]
00:38:24 ◼ ► and we'll replace it now so they take out their version in the play and replace it with your You Tube version. [TS]
00:38:37 ◼ ► Yeah that's exactly it because they know the first twenty four hours are the ones that are the valuable ones [TS]
00:38:41 ◼ ► and so they'll just delay and delay until they can see the traffic has dropped off [TS]
00:38:51 ◼ ► and my guests here's my guess about this is that I think they're under just tremendous financial constraints because of [TS]
00:38:58 ◼ ► changing technology. Yeah but they also don't have the same kind of oversight that a T.V. News organization would have. [TS]
00:39:07 ◼ ► News organization would have enough infrastructure to say listen guys let's not risk this you know where where in the [TS]
00:39:15 ◼ ► and so I think newspapers are at this interesting crux where they're just they're under a lot of pressure [TS]
00:39:23 ◼ ► but anyway I just I was I to complain about the news if I possibly can and I use papers. [TS]
00:39:28 ◼ ► You know they're not exactly they're not earning my love with another religion another who is a who we both know who I [TS]
00:39:35 ◼ ► won't name but he said that the table as well and he he studied to get I think more hard about it [TS]
00:39:47 ◼ ► but that's not good enough you didn't pay me to say what you just did and he's had some success with that [TS]
00:39:53 ◼ ► and I've started to say OK so I think that I kind of maybe they're realizing that it's. [TS]
00:40:00 ◼ ► Scandalous and the lies and anyway I'm not going to you know used to work for a tabloid newspaper. [TS]
00:40:05 ◼ ► You know I'm I'm not going to sit here with you and you know we will eventually will talk about you [TS]
00:40:22 ◼ ► or credit as well you know I had one I had one video that was all I could say were videos it was the one where I went [TS]
00:40:30 ◼ ► into the Bank of England gold bullion vote and obviously that was that's not and I think you see every day right. [TS]
00:40:37 ◼ ► A few people wanted to use and I had one newspaper contact me and say can we use the video in an article [TS]
00:40:43 ◼ ► and we want to put it and I'm player and I said oh no can you please use the cheap so that people watch [TS]
00:40:48 ◼ ► and you know they going to watch the same video anyway and I was like OK I will think about it [TS]
00:40:54 ◼ ► and because that's just let me know I specifically told him they couldn't put it in airplane conversations that I [TS]
00:41:00 ◼ ► couldn't go back on that and instead I think they must've taken ten fifteen screen grabs [TS]
00:41:08 ◼ ► and just made a huge picture gallery and all the pictures from it's like you know goodness sake. So naughty. Anyway. [TS]
00:41:16 ◼ ► OK Well while we've been complaining about all of these these things we might never be stuck right. [TS]
00:41:24 ◼ ► However if anyone is still survive listening through claims of You Tubers right first world You Tuber problem. [TS]
00:41:35 ◼ ► when one of the little notes that I wanted to make is the advantage of allowing copyright to expire [TS]
00:41:43 ◼ ► and you know you talked about. Why should people be able to build on on George Lucas is stuff. [TS]
00:41:52 ◼ ► and I think what are some examples of this which is very interesting if you can retell store. [TS]
00:42:04 ◼ ► and I have I have two examples that I really like the first one is might be slightly embarrassing I'm going to read it [TS]
00:42:11 ◼ ► anyway. Is the I think it's one nine hundred ninety six movie called clueless soaring right down. Yeah. [TS]
00:42:20 ◼ ► Which is one of those movies when I first saw it and I thought this was just the dumbest movie ever made [TS]
00:42:30 ◼ ► but it is on the surface it is basically a movie about the dumbest California Valley Girls you've ever seen. [TS]
00:42:41 ◼ ► However later on I came to find out that the clue this is a remake of Jane Austen's Emma right that it is the exact [TS]
00:43:01 ◼ ► and that's like Oh I wasn't willing to admit I like this film until I realized it was based on something. [TS]
00:43:13 ◼ ► I've often heard it said they were sort of Jane Austen's stuff was considered reasonably not that highbrow [TS]
00:43:18 ◼ ► and it's time as well. Yeah I've heard that kind of stuff and I've heard some his fantasies. [TS]
00:43:28 ◼ ► and of course you know thing things gain respect through time you know just because it's old it's sort of awesome Don't [TS]
00:43:39 ◼ ► But so I so this is an example where I think clueless is the kind of movie that could be made right because the [TS]
00:43:48 ◼ ► Yeah and you can do interesting things with that story by moving it to a different setting [TS]
00:43:55 ◼ ► and I think that there are there is cultural value. In being able to do new things with iconic characters. [TS]
00:44:05 ◼ ► Right that I think at a certain point very successful films and very successful books. [TS]
00:44:17 ◼ ► and that is also why I'm kind of very much for some eventual limit on copyright that so that more can be done with [TS]
00:44:35 ◼ ► and I had one of these binge watching Sessions is the B.B.C.'s remake of Sherlock the Sherlock Holmes series. [TS]
00:44:45 ◼ ► How could I have seen them so I think actually as we are talking the season three finale is airing on the B.B.C. [TS]
00:44:53 ◼ ► Right now which I'm going to. Yeah but I basically only discovered these about a month ago. [TS]
00:44:58 ◼ ► Yeah and I watched the first one and and I was like I can't stop watching how right I have to keep watching it [TS]
00:45:06 ◼ ► and I've just been watch the first two and a half seasons available at that point and it was great [TS]
00:45:27 ◼ ► Right he's like he is such a part of the of like the Anglosphere culture at this point that I think that it is fair [TS]
00:45:42 ◼ ► and other people can do things with this kind of story I mean surely among other the best example because I know [TS]
00:45:48 ◼ ► there's lots of clever nuanced notes to the kind in the books but is this not just a case again [TS]
00:46:11 ◼ ► but then just appropriating a famous name and brand that has worked its way into culture to help sell their product. [TS]
00:46:18 ◼ ► I mean you could you could make as bunch of rip roaring detective films just like that you know a guy [TS]
00:46:31 ◼ ► but less people would watch it because it hasn't got an iconic name like Sherlock and things. [TS]
00:46:40 ◼ ► and you're building on things in culture in another way so I think that just being the being a bit lazy then making [TS]
00:46:46 ◼ ► something good but then there are paling to our culture which doesn't like anything unless it's already famous [TS]
00:46:52 ◼ ► and stamping that on in much the same way when you make a science documentary on the B.B.C. [TS]
00:46:59 ◼ ► and this is someone who's already famous presenting it that is stamping fame on things because their culture is so [TS]
00:47:07 ◼ ► obsessed with fame. So I think I think that's getting off into a different argument about about fame right. [TS]
00:47:16 ◼ ► and also I think the you know there's some great some great charts about the number of sequels right that have been made [TS]
00:47:25 ◼ ► in movies recently and this the similar kind of idea that people want to buy what they already know. Yeah. [TS]
00:47:31 ◼ ► And my my opinion on the bad sequels thing is like I don't care how many bad sequels are made I only care about the [TS]
00:47:42 ◼ ► and my opinion is that yeah there's a bunch of stuff that's made that people watch it because of Sherlock Holmes [TS]
00:47:49 ◼ ► and now I have another great Sherlock Holmes example which is the Robert Downey Jr Sherlock Holmes movie which I [TS]
00:48:00 ◼ ► Home is moving you know I started to watch for that race and I had to stop after about twenty minutes. [TS]
00:48:05 ◼ ► There's no reason I would have watched that movie if it was not a Sherlock Holmes movie. [TS]
00:48:12 ◼ ► but they would have not gotten my money if it was not for a Sherlock Holmes name on it. [TS]
00:48:16 ◼ ► Right because I've read the Sherlock Holmes stories like and I'm interested in this [TS]
00:48:19 ◼ ► and so I wanted to see that interpretation which I like I know it's OK But you know I didn't watch the second one. [TS]
00:48:27 ◼ ► But to me the B.B.C. Sherlock is the shining example of what you can do and I think that those those stories are great. [TS]
00:48:39 ◼ ► They're made better because it's Sherlock Holmes because you can see like what changes have they made to these [TS]
00:48:46 ◼ ► characters or what have they kept the same. You know what's different now that they've moved it into a modern setting. [TS]
00:48:53 ◼ ► I think it gains value from contrast with the originals that it wouldn't have if it was a standalone piece. [TS]
00:49:07 ◼ ► and although it will it will never happen I would love it if there was you know like say the copyright limit was. [TS]
00:49:15 ◼ ► At sixty years that when I was older I could watch somebody redo the original Star Wars movies. [TS]
00:49:31 ◼ ► But with current copyright lasting forever that will never happen you know and that will never be able to occur. [TS]
00:49:46 ◼ ► and again this is why George Lucas is always like the easy one to pick on right because he made new Star Wars movies [TS]
00:49:53 ◼ ► And here's here's the thing right I generally pass that was a very diplomatic statement. [TS]
00:50:04 ◼ ► and here's one of the other things with going back to like one allows us to make our living. [TS]
00:50:11 ◼ ► The control over the distribution of this Star Wars comes up for a very particular reason copyright debates [TS]
00:50:18 ◼ ► and it's it's partly because the power of the control of the distribution is what has allowed George Lucas to basically [TS]
00:50:35 ◼ ► Right and this is this again as I could not be a more first world kind of problem. [TS]
00:50:42 ◼ ► but if you are a person who kind of cares about the cultural history of the world you know if you're looking at movies [TS]
00:50:56 ◼ ► Yeah but you cannot get the original versions of those Star Wars very naughty. It's very naughty of him isn't it. [TS]
00:51:04 ◼ ► and I think that's where a lot of the resentment comes from as people think you know nobody begrudges is making those [TS]
00:51:10 ◼ ► new movies like you know I think nobody rivaled I begrudge a little bit I would say I hold no I hold no ill will in my [TS]
00:51:18 ◼ ► heart for the making of those movies like this is the same thing that is in my mind just fall into the category of the [TS]
00:51:23 ◼ ► bad things I don't have to watch the bad things I saw them once. I will never see them again. [TS]
00:51:30 ◼ ► but if you see them once I'm sorry I know this isn't about style until watching the originals again likely because [TS]
00:51:39 ◼ ► and things that happen in the originals now kept giving me flashbacks to those subsequent Precourt [TS]
00:51:47 ◼ ► and it was tainting the originals for me because I was thinking they just they didn't exist. OK And here I go on. [TS]
00:51:54 ◼ ► Yeah I was also not related but one of my podcasting heroes. Call John Syracuse who I adore. [TS]
00:52:06 ◼ ► and what I love is that he is simply denying the existence of the original three movies within his household. [TS]
00:52:18 ◼ ► but his strategy apparently is to have his kids exist long enough without ever having seen them that they will be able [TS]
00:52:29 ◼ ► Yeah because I ran across this in my students enough work where kids who saw them in similar time frames were not [TS]
00:52:36 ◼ ► necessarily able to distinguish one from the other which is horrifying to me. Yeah but anyway we're getting derailed. [TS]
00:52:43 ◼ ► So what I would say is that that is one of the problems is that the power of the control of distribution in this one [TS]
00:52:55 ◼ ► Yeah and that's that is that is the reason why I picked George Lucas as an example [TS]
00:53:13 ◼ ► and this is one of the reasons why Congress has extended copyright protections is because their argument is it gives [TS]
00:53:26 ◼ ► and there's some interesting data that says that's not actually the case that what happens is the original works just [TS]
00:53:33 ◼ ► But in this particular case with George Lucas It's also very obvious that the original work gets distorted [TS]
00:53:41 ◼ ► and find as it aired in one nine hundred seventy seven versions of the original movie. [TS]
00:53:53 ◼ ► but I have heard that on the Internet you might be able to find somewhere a thing called. The Star Wars D. [TS]
00:54:08 ◼ ► and tried to make them as close as possible to the original cinematic releases as they have. [TS]
00:54:13 ◼ ► Again I would not know where to acquire such a thing because it would obviously be copyright infringement [TS]
00:54:19 ◼ ► and it would be frowned upon as creative as a creator myself I could never condone such an action for such an [TS]
00:54:30 ◼ ► but I'm just like throwing it out there that there exists this thing called the Star Wars the specialized addition. [TS]
00:54:38 ◼ ► I'll tell you something else. I mean obviously I'm imagining you sane people vs George Lucas film I actually have not. [TS]
00:54:45 ◼ ► Well I highly highly recommend it's on my list of some I'll be doing what we just discussed I can't recommend highly [TS]
00:54:54 ◼ ► and I had spent way too much time reading Wikipedia articles reading it the story of the Zapruder film. [TS]
00:55:03 ◼ ► Very interesting when it comes to you know copyright and ownership of material and things. [TS]
00:55:11 ◼ ► but if if if after this podcast they poured it on rates I think that's a good rate as well. [TS]
00:55:22 ◼ ► and whole remake your original one of course you would preserve the original for the archives [TS]
00:55:29 ◼ ► I didn't think you'd say differently or do you think you pretty much have the same position. [TS]
00:55:38 ◼ ► and I don't know that the argument that I want to be made can be made within the context of the of the kinds of videos [TS]
00:55:46 ◼ ► I put on You Tube a coherent argument for limited copyright is hard to make because I think that it is a it is a real [TS]
00:55:57 ◼ ► gray area of law. It requires a large amount of time and it's also a topic that there is no clearly correct answer. [TS]
00:56:09 ◼ ► And as a as a as a little example I just want to throw into that to put that point. [TS]
00:56:13 ◼ ► There's a thought process that I learned when I was doing physics back at university [TS]
00:56:25 ◼ ► and so say you know what would a world be like if we had infinite copyright if Congress just said The heck with these [TS]
00:56:40 ◼ ► And when I think of those two worlds if I had to pick I'd pick the world with the infinite copyright. [TS]
00:57:12 ◼ ► But there is a very very interesting TED talk by a woman talking about the fashion industry [TS]
00:57:17 ◼ ► and how in the United States at least fashion designs do not have copyright protection at all. [TS]
00:57:34 ◼ ► but beneficial to the fashion world because it encourages tremendous turnover of styles right that if one company comes [TS]
00:57:43 ◼ ► out with a particular style of dress there's a delay in time before other companies can come out with it too simply [TS]
00:57:51 ◼ ► Yeah but it means that everybody has to keep generating new things much more quickly and then this leads into my. [TS]
00:58:00 ◼ ► It's hard to have a definitive opinion because I am convinced that the fashion industry is better off without having [TS]
00:58:07 ◼ ► copyright protection and I think there's some very specific reasons why that's the case [TS]
00:58:18 ◼ ► So it's a very complicated very complicated issue. I think if nothing else we have shown that it is complicated. [TS]