00:00:00 ◼ ► Can I also just say before you make your follow up point during the editing I asked you to make a couple of changes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/0">TS</a>]
00:00:07 ◼ ► and I thought that it was going to result in the section making no sense whatsoever to Paypal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7">TS</a>]
00:00:11 ◼ ► and you obviously handled it very well because people seem to understand what we were talking about so congratulations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/11">TS</a>]
00:00:18 ◼ ► to you on editing and sorry for making your life difficult. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/18">TS</a>]
00:00:21 ◼ ► but nobody noticed there's no reason for you to draw attention to this now so I'm just going to cut this out as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/21">TS</a>]
00:00:29 ◼ ► You know Googling of twenty tons of prime number A I would I would I would never I would never do that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/29">TS</a>]
00:00:39 ◼ ► I can't think of any device of prime numbers two three five seven eleven thirteen seventeen one nine hundred twenty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/39">TS</a>]
00:00:46 ◼ ► three twenty nine and what's her next prime upset after this thirty one thirty one. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/46">TS</a>]
00:00:51 ◼ ► Wow twin primes twin primes Yes this is exciting double although it will be a twin prime if we make it to the fourth [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/51">TS</a>]
00:00:59 ◼ ► season because this is a problem I can never my my brain doesn't treat the seasons right because if I'm not mistaken [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/59">TS</a>]
00:01:06 ◼ ► this is our. The season finale for Episode three of season three is it not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/66">TS</a>]
00:01:11 ◼ ► No no I think I wouldn't think thirty would be the finale this is the penultimate episode. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/71">TS</a>]
00:01:15 ◼ ► Yeah OK this is right this is my brain always does this wrong I feel like I want to read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/75">TS</a>]
00:01:20 ◼ ► or order things so that like go back and retcon it so that our first episode is episode zero [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/80">TS</a>]
00:01:25 ◼ ► but you know I feel like the first number should tell you what season it is as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/85">TS</a>]
00:01:30 ◼ ► So episode thirty should be Episode one of season three but that's not really how it works [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/90">TS</a>]
00:01:36 ◼ ► but maybe I will go back I'll change all the numbers people will love that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/96">TS</a>]
00:01:38 ◼ ► Are you one of these people who got their knickers in a twist about the turn of the millennium then about you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/98">TS</a>]
00:01:43 ◼ ► when was the millennium really ending was at the end of two thousand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/103">TS</a>]
00:01:46 ◼ ► and knows at the end of I don't get my knickers in a twist [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/106">TS</a>]
00:01:49 ◼ ► but I was aware that did you get your underpants in Tanglewood. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/109">TS</a>]
00:01:55 ◼ ► but it was something that I was aware of it depend on how you want to how you want to count whereas. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/115">TS</a>]
00:02:00 ◼ ► The millennium and where is not the millennium. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/120">TS</a>]
00:02:01 ◼ ► Yeah but yes maybe I will go back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/121">TS</a>]
00:02:03 ◼ ► and I will change all the numbers for all of the episodes to make it more the way that I wanted to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/123">TS</a>]
00:02:07 ◼ ► but that one is actually episode zero they don't know that I know I might [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/127">TS</a>]
00:02:12 ◼ ► and I not only will it cause consternation for some of their followers it will cause consternation for me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/132">TS</a>]
00:02:20 ◼ ► You'll forget a little while you'll forget [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/140">TS</a>]
00:02:22 ◼ ► and you won't even remember we should start with follow up because that's where we always stay. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/142">TS</a>]
00:02:27 ◼ ► Well that's what we always plan to start we had to have a day but no we don't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/147">TS</a>]
00:02:30 ◼ ► Let's let's let's get to it recently signed. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/150">TS</a>]
00:02:33 ◼ ► First of all can we start with the Do Not Disturb stuff we have talked we talked quite a bit about do not disturb mode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/153">TS</a>]
00:02:42 ◼ ► on phones and the times that it's inappropriate to send M.M.S. or Text messages. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/162">TS</a>]
00:02:49 ◼ ► There are a lot of people were very interested in this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/169">TS</a>]
00:02:52 ◼ ► Yet it was an accepted this is a big topic on on the rabbits I think it's pretty obvious from the feedback that the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/172">TS</a>]
00:03:01 ◼ ► majority of people shared the view that I guess was kind of your view although you were wrestling with it a bit [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/181">TS</a>]
00:03:09 ◼ ► but most people shared the view that it's open season and you can send messages whenever you like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/189">TS</a>]
00:03:16 ◼ ► and you can work on the assumption that the receiver is managing the situation at their end so that if I don't want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/196">TS</a>]
00:03:23 ◼ ► be disturbed they would not be disturbed. That was the majority feeling wasn't looking. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/203">TS</a>]
00:03:30 ◼ ► Looking through the feedback that was the impression that I got [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/210">TS</a>]
00:03:32 ◼ ► and then just today I asked on Twitter if someone wanted to tally it up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/212">TS</a>]
00:03:35 ◼ ► and one of our very nice Twitter followers of James did just that and made a little picture where he went through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/215">TS</a>]
00:03:41 ◼ ► and tallied what side various people were on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/221">TS</a>]
00:03:45 ◼ ► and did confirm that that yes it wasn't just confirmation bias on my part of oh look at all these comments that agree [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/225">TS</a>]
00:03:50 ◼ ► with me and I'm just going to ignore the ones that don't look like it was about three [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/230">TS</a>]
00:03:54 ◼ ► or maybe four to one in favor of you can message any time verses you should try to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/234">TS</a>]
00:04:00 ◼ ► Estimate if the other person is awake before you message them how do you feel about that pretty well at first [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/240">TS</a>]
00:04:07 ◼ ► when I first started saying the feedback coming in I started to think you know what I'm probably just a bit out of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/247">TS</a>]
00:04:13 ◼ ► touch here the world has moved on. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/253">TS</a>]
00:04:18 ◼ ► and there are certainly people who I would send text to any time I mean nothing illustrates the example better than the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/258">TS</a>]
00:04:26 ◼ ► fact I've discussed this over Skype with very stably him and we had that discussion at two am [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/266">TS</a>]
00:04:35 ◼ ► and that was just a normal time for us to be talking and that did demonstrate that the world has moved on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/275">TS</a>]
00:04:43 ◼ ► but do you know why it suddenly just dawned on me I hope I'm right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/283">TS</a>]
00:04:51 ◼ ► There is still etiquette and that's of course is what you need to take into account who it is. Wait what. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/291">TS</a>]
00:04:58 ◼ ► Horses for what. Horses for courses I don't know this phrase you don't know that sank. I know this means nothing to me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/298">TS</a>]
00:05:06 ◼ ► Well it means. Well I'm imagining its origin although now a thousand people tell me I'm wrong. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/306">TS</a>]
00:05:12 ◼ ► Some horses are good at running on courses and some horses always we don't drive horses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/312">TS</a>]
00:05:16 ◼ ► and so there's a saying that certain horses are suited to certain circumstances [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/316">TS</a>]
00:05:22 ◼ ► and it's likewise with sending messages. It's horses for courses you need to think about the horse. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/322">TS</a>]
00:05:28 ◼ ► Well actually my courses were horses horses for courses. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/328">TS</a>]
00:05:32 ◼ ► Now it's horses for courses because you can change the course [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/332">TS</a>]
00:05:35 ◼ ► but you can change the horse that runs on so if you turn on to the course [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/335">TS</a>]
00:05:38 ◼ ► and I sweat you think well I'm not going to run. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/338">TS</a>]
00:05:41 ◼ ► Phar Lap I'm going to run a red rum because red runs better on the wet course. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/341">TS</a>]
00:05:47 ◼ ► People have multiple horses I didn't realize this and then realize you show up with many horses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/347">TS</a>]
00:05:51 ◼ ► and decide which one to run and then you have one horse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/351">TS</a>]
00:05:53 ◼ ► and you pick which course you want to run him on is that not how I don't know how professional horse. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/353">TS</a>]
00:06:00 ◼ ► Nothing more really relevant to the point about before we get so caught up with the intricacies of the horse racing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/360">TS</a>]
00:06:10 ◼ ► industry let's just say my attitude is you need to think about the person to try to pick an example. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/370">TS</a>]
00:06:20 ◼ ► Profess a public office someone I text a lot but it takes many people so that's why I chose him so so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/380">TS</a>]
00:06:27 ◼ ► and I should say yeah. Someone I text a lot. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/387">TS</a>]
00:06:30 ◼ ► HAYES You know I don't know how old he is he's somewhere between sixty five and seventy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/390">TS</a>]
00:06:34 ◼ ► He's not I wouldn't describe him as a super high tech. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/394">TS</a>]
00:06:38 ◼ ► He's interested me with his phone number and the privilege to be able to ring him and text him whenever I like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/398">TS</a>]
00:06:46 ◼ ► I would not text him later not I would not expect him to have configured his phone into some system whereby he can [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/406">TS</a>]
00:06:55 ◼ ► filter me out I would not ashame he has turned his phone off he doesn't have to turn his phone off because of all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/415">TS</a>]
00:07:02 ◼ ► people in the world who have his number. I think he has an expectation. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/422">TS</a>]
00:07:07 ◼ ► He has the right to an expectation to be left alone after a certain time is not now OK. C.D.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/427">TS</a>]
00:07:14 ◼ ► Gray I know to see protected hard to contact goes into his show whenever he wants I will text him on a whim [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/434">TS</a>]
00:07:20 ◼ ► when I think of it. You know destine he could be anywhere in the world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/440">TS</a>]
00:07:25 ◼ ► I would text him any time because he's probably awake anyway working or something. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/445">TS</a>]
00:07:29 ◼ ► I choose my horses carefully and that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/449">TS</a>]
00:07:34 ◼ ► and that responsibility is on me because I'm the person sending the thing out there into the world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/454">TS</a>]
00:07:39 ◼ ► The responsibility is mine and I'm sorry if I'm living in the past and I'm being old fashioned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/459">TS</a>]
00:07:44 ◼ ► but I still believe in us too. I'm old fashioned in that way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/464">TS</a>]
00:07:49 ◼ ► There's an etiquette here and I think if I'm going to interrupt someone I need to think about am I interrupting them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/469">TS</a>]
00:07:57 ◼ ► You know you don't just turn up someone's house any time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/477">TS</a>]
00:08:00 ◼ ► Don't phone them any time and so many text messages to fall into that as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/480">TS</a>]
00:08:06 ◼ ► It seems like you're modifying your course for the horses in your life is the way the Seems to me I'm still stuck on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/486">TS</a>]
00:08:16 ◼ ► Let's say courses for horses if it makes it easier for you but I can assure you the saying is horses for courses. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/496">TS</a>]
00:08:22 ◼ ► And yes most people in the racing industry do you have a whole stable of horses they will have twenty or thirty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/502">TS</a>]
00:08:29 ◼ ► when to run them based on how good they are of certain things in this metaphor the horses are your friends are the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/509">TS</a>]
00:08:35 ◼ ► courses your friends it doesn't seem like the courses should be your friends. You understand the argument. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/515">TS</a>]
00:08:41 ◼ ► Obviously I'm making a horse's people because horses are more people like right [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/521">TS</a>]
00:08:46 ◼ ► and you are modifying your course for the mighty I am not applying my course of action pending on the horse who I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/526">TS</a>]
00:08:53 ◼ ► sending my S.M.S. To the courts for the horse or whatever. I'm terribly sorry frustrating you with this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/533">TS</a>]
00:09:00 ◼ ► Tell me where you stand after all this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/540">TS</a>]
00:09:02 ◼ ► Have you because you were you were not totally decided on this you were kind of the anguish I was a man in flux in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/542">TS</a>]
00:09:08 ◼ ► last episode I was genuinely anguished I think about it for a whole bunch. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/548">TS</a>]
00:09:13 ◼ ► After that show I was I read throughout just all of the comments on the road I was really interested to see what people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/553">TS</a>]
00:09:19 ◼ ► And after after this whole this whole debacle I am coming down pretty firmly on the side of now you can message anybody [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/559">TS</a>]
00:09:30 ◼ ► That instant message as you were discussing last time instant message can be treated much more much more sort of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/570">TS</a>]
00:09:39 ◼ ► email then it's like a phone call but I was arguing in the opposite way on the previous show [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/579">TS</a>]
00:09:44 ◼ ► but I know what you meant by that so I am I am coming down on that side pretty clearly that you are wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/584">TS</a>]
00:09:51 ◼ ► and you know what I think you know you are wrong but I don't think I know that I let me give you an example. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/591">TS</a>]
00:09:56 ◼ ► OK So you say you decided to next. T.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/596">TS</a>]
00:10:00 ◼ ► Great video was going to be about chemistry and it was something and I said All right Martin help me out with that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/600">TS</a>]
00:10:07 ◼ ► and you called him up and he said oh sure gray here's my here's my phone number text me any time you want. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/607">TS</a>]
00:10:13 ◼ ► OK And you're pulling a late night session [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/613">TS</a>]
00:10:16 ◼ ► and suddenly a question popped into your head you know like oh I need to Texas tomorrow because I want to know the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/616">TS</a>]
00:10:23 ◼ ► Do you send the text message straight away as soon as it comes into your head at one am [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/623">TS</a>]
00:10:28 ◼ ► or do you think do you know what that sixty seven year old. OK maybe I shouldn't send him a text message at one am. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/628">TS</a>]
00:10:37 ◼ ► I'll tell you I'll send it in the morning at a more respectable hour. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/637">TS</a>]
00:10:42 ◼ ► Which just tell me which you don't and then I'll shut up. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/642">TS</a>]
00:10:44 ◼ ► I think it partly depends on the horse [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/644">TS</a>]
00:10:47 ◼ ► but it depends on who I know that I think it would depend on the horse I guess he does have a nice night life you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/647">TS</a>]
00:10:53 ◼ ► that would make me more more likely to be able to do it. Here's here's the thing. I kind of agree. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/653">TS</a>]
00:10:59 ◼ ► I do kind of agree with you in that that rights are good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/659">TS</a>]
00:11:04 ◼ ► If somebody if somebody is possibly approaching seventy I might modify my technological interaction with them so I am [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/664">TS</a>]
00:11:13 ◼ ► going to concede that point ever so slightly here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/673">TS</a>]
00:11:18 ◼ ► but one of the things that I thought was probably the most interesting comment from the Reddit that I found it had never [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/678">TS</a>]
00:11:24 ◼ ► even occurred to me how people don't change the default settings on their devices. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/684">TS</a>]
00:11:30 ◼ ► Nobody flips the switch is they just leave everything as it is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/690">TS</a>]
00:11:33 ◼ ► What that means is that anybody who has an i Phone if they if they don't at least learn about the Do Not Disturb [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/693">TS</a>]
00:11:38 ◼ ► or how to turn off their phone at night. They must be getting messages from all kinds of things all the time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/698">TS</a>]
00:11:48 ◼ ► Well if if they have Facebook on their phone right Facebook will give them a notification that somebody sent them a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/708">TS</a>]
00:11:53 ◼ ► Facebook message. I don't relate to Facebook on your phone. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/713">TS</a>]
00:11:57 ◼ ► Yes I was using Facebook as I did and that's what everybody has but. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/717">TS</a>]
00:12:00 ◼ ► If you put the Twitter app on your phone which I have It'll by default you have the actual one from Twitter. Yes OK. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/720">TS</a>]
00:12:07 ◼ ► It it notifies you for like everything that happens on Twitter. My aunt doesn't buy that. OK Well here's the thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/727">TS</a>]
00:12:13 ◼ ► Did you let it send you messages like when a thing pops up and says wrote in message. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/733">TS</a>]
00:12:19 ◼ ► OK Well this is what I'm saying like I think by the fall people just hit the Yes button on all those things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/739">TS</a>]
00:12:23 ◼ ► Yes So if people just go with the default which is yes their phone's going to be beeping all the time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/743">TS</a>]
00:12:30 ◼ ► It doesn't seem to me like messages are fundamentally different on that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/750">TS</a>]
00:12:35 ◼ ► and I have to say I have seen on other people's i Phones in real life a disturbing number of things in their little [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/755">TS</a>]
00:12:42 ◼ ► notification tray or or the the number of times that sort of normal people's phones do beep. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/762">TS</a>]
00:12:47 ◼ ► And so I thought how that does that does make messages more like they are part of this noise in people's life [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/767">TS</a>]
00:12:55 ◼ ► and less like less like a phone call like you know I would never I wouldn't call anybody unless it was an emergency [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/775">TS</a>]
00:13:05 ◼ ► I would really really think about when somebody is awake before I would call them in a way that I'm [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/785">TS</a>]
00:13:09 ◼ ► and less likely to consider that four messages at this stage. I'm not conceding that yet. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/789">TS</a>]
00:13:17 ◼ ► Well you'd think the other thing that I just thought was interesting from the Reddit at least our feedback on the Read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/797">TS</a>]
00:13:22 ◼ ► it was you know I would bet that READ IT trends toward a much younger audience. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/802">TS</a>]
00:13:29 ◼ ► Yeah probably on average much younger than us. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/809">TS</a>]
00:13:32 ◼ ► I thought it was interesting just to see that that there was the overwhelming Oh yes you can message anytime [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/812">TS</a>]
00:13:38 ◼ ► and I think this is going to be this is slowly becoming a kind of cultural shift. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/818">TS</a>]
00:13:44 ◼ ► I would bet that that trend's really high with the younger the person is the more they think it's appropriate to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/824">TS</a>]
00:13:52 ◼ ► So I guess what I'm trying to say here is messaging at all hours is the way of the future Brady [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/832">TS</a>]
00:13:58 ◼ ► and so hop on board the feud. A train. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/838">TS</a>]
00:14:02 ◼ ► and I go I know you wrote a lot on an on an old gent you know I'm an Oh not just old now you're an old gentleman Oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/842">TS</a>]
00:14:09 ◼ ► Chip I'm a jet a man as you know I do to retain I will use a knife and fork correctly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/849">TS</a>]
00:14:15 ◼ ► and you know I hope the young people might think I can do whatever they want with their hands [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/855">TS</a>]
00:14:20 ◼ ► but you know yeah because they're animals right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/860">TS</a>]
00:14:23 ◼ ► These young people they're animals they eat with their hands [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/863">TS</a>]
00:14:25 ◼ ► and they text all at once on a proper diet at the table with a knife and fork [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/865">TS</a>]
00:14:30 ◼ ► and in my text messages at appropriate times. Yes yes I do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/870">TS</a>]
00:14:37 ◼ ► One final thing that is just a point on this little topic here which was I think the reason the reason this is such a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/877">TS</a>]
00:14:44 ◼ ► such a contentious issue in that all other methods of communication can pretty clearly fall into one of two bins. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/884">TS</a>]
00:14:52 ◼ ► You have asynchronous communication like email yet where both people don't need to be there at the same time in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/892">TS</a>]
00:14:57 ◼ ► messages go back and forth. Or like the post. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/897">TS</a>]
00:15:00 ◼ ► Yeah and then you have synchronous communications where you both need to be there at the same time like a phone call [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/900">TS</a>]
00:15:04 ◼ ► or like right now what we're doing on Skype. We can't asynchronously put together this pod cast in any reasonable way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/904">TS</a>]
00:15:11 ◼ ► We should try that one day it's like an experiment. We should not we should not try. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/911">TS</a>]
00:15:15 ◼ ► One does not sound like fun unless you want to edit that upset. I'll let you have that that joy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/915">TS</a>]
00:15:20 ◼ ► Yeah but obviously they say S.M.S. Is there and that they're in the gray zone. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/920">TS</a>]
00:15:24 ◼ ► The word for them is that they are semi synchronous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/924">TS</a>]
00:15:27 ◼ ► but they are not synchronous they're not asynchronous they're semi synchronous they can fall in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/927">TS</a>]
00:15:33 ◼ ► and out of this all the time and I think that is that is really the thing that causes all of the problems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/933">TS</a>]
00:15:37 ◼ ► and I don't want one of the clearest things about the sometimes is like beat it with some people on insta message you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/937">TS</a>]
00:15:44 ◼ ► sort of drift apart from having a live conversation where it's like oh we're talking to each other right now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/944">TS</a>]
00:15:51 ◼ ► but then the message is they take longer and longer between them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/951">TS</a>]
00:15:53 ◼ ► and you sort of wonder at what point are we still talking to each other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/953">TS</a>]
00:15:57 ◼ ► or are we going to do you know that feeling you know. Yeah. Another master you're the master just like stopping a car. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/957">TS</a>]
00:16:04 ◼ ► Text conversation is like I guess that was the end all of my supposed since you're the old gentleman of etiquette here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/964">TS</a>]
00:16:13 ◼ ► am I supposed to sign off with a Cheerio pip pip to let you know that we're all done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/973">TS</a>]
00:16:17 ◼ ► or how is it you are more abrupt in your like sometimes you reply to things in a way that I used to think was rude [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/977">TS</a>]
00:16:25 ◼ ► and now I just realize it's just being as I don't think that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/985">TS</a>]
00:16:29 ◼ ► and I'm just like yeah sometimes what would I do that you would think is rude or not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/989">TS</a>]
00:16:34 ◼ ► and I just like really this is the problem is that this is the problem of communication [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/994">TS</a>]
00:16:39 ◼ ► and you've talked about it before with e-mail and text. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/999">TS</a>]
00:16:41 ◼ ► At what point do you move from letters where everything has to be formal and your sincerely [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1001">TS</a>]
00:16:45 ◼ ► and thank you very much for your time and at what point can you just be completely functional and say yes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1005">TS</a>]
00:16:53 ◼ ► And I'm not quite at your level yet of using these things purely functional but I never meant to be rude. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1013">TS</a>]
00:17:00 ◼ ► Unless there was some time I was trying to be rude to you but I don't remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1020">TS</a>]
00:17:02 ◼ ► but I know you're not right I don't take it you know. I've learned I've learned this is the way of gray. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1022">TS</a>]
00:17:08 ◼ ► What have you learned that that's not true just that my messages are short is that what you mean abrupt prophets have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1028">TS</a>]
00:17:14 ◼ ► props and I'm so much more angry than short. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1034">TS</a>]
00:17:16 ◼ ► But also but also the funny thing is that when when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1036">TS</a>]
00:17:20 ◼ ► when you do get cornered into a situation where you have to sort of show some kind of emotional empathy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1040">TS</a>]
00:17:25 ◼ ► Sometimes you have to be candid and how do you handle that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1045">TS</a>]
00:17:28 ◼ ► What do you mean one of the it's just sometimes like out of the other [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1048">TS</a>]
00:17:34 ◼ ► when I got it I don't want to get to keep personal because the next item I'm going to be really getting stuck into is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1054">TS</a>]
00:17:40 ◼ ► so I don't want to get Should I just bring up with the next item is there not that I have written here on this list. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1060">TS</a>]
00:17:46 ◼ ► Let's go to the next go to the next item. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1066">TS</a>]
00:17:49 ◼ ► This episode of hello internet is brought to you by Squarespace making your own website can be a huge pain even if you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1069">TS</a>]
00:17:56 ◼ ► know how to code even if you're a designer trying to make something. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1076">TS</a>]
00:18:00 ◼ ► It looks good and works good is a huge huge hassle it's going to take up an enormous amount of your time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1080">TS</a>]
00:18:06 ◼ ► and if you're making a web site you probably want that website to do something. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1086">TS</a>]
00:18:10 ◼ ► You just want it done and you want this solution fixed for you and that is what square spaces for. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1090">TS</a>]
00:18:15 ◼ ► With square space you can have a beautiful and functional website up in just minutes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1095">TS</a>]
00:18:20 ◼ ► Speaking of making things look beautiful Squarespace has partnered with Getty Images so they have tons of stock photos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1100">TS</a>]
00:18:26 ◼ ► that you can use to put your website together so you don't have to go out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1106">TS</a>]
00:18:29 ◼ ► and take a bunch of pictures for whatever it is you're trying to talk about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1109">TS</a>]
00:18:32 ◼ ► You just need some image at the top of your article. Bam Squarespace has it solved for you with Getty Images. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1112">TS</a>]
00:18:37 ◼ ► Again square space is just the best. I use it for my websites. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1117">TS</a>]
00:18:42 ◼ ► They have beautiful designs they have powerful templates they have twenty four seventh's support via live chat [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1122">TS</a>]
00:18:47 ◼ ► and e-mail. You don't have to talk to a person to get your problem fixed which is something I hugely appreciate. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1127">TS</a>]
00:18:52 ◼ ► They also have responsive design so your web site looks good whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1132">TS</a>]
00:18:55 ◼ ► or not it's stretched across a twenty seven inch IMAX or it's squished down into a tiny i Pod Touch you get all this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1135">TS</a>]
00:19:03 ◼ ► There's so many things to talk about with square space they have commerce they have integration with Google Apps I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1143">TS</a>]
00:19:08 ◼ ► could go on forever but bottom line is they can do almost everything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1148">TS</a>]
00:19:13 ◼ ► You get all of the amazing Squarespace for just eight dollars a month [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1153">TS</a>]
00:19:17 ◼ ► and you can get a free domain name if you buy a square space for a year. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1157">TS</a>]
00:19:21 ◼ ► Now you can sign about squarespace dot com and start building a website today. Free trial. No credit card required. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1161">TS</a>]
00:19:28 ◼ ► There's none of this oh it's a free trial but we're going to charge you in thirty days if you don't remember. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1168">TS</a>]
00:19:32 ◼ ► Now you can just really start making the website right now so just go and try it out. Go and try it out you'll see. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1172">TS</a>]
00:19:40 ◼ ► when you decide that you actually want to use a square space which you obviously well we can get you ten percent off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1180">TS</a>]
00:19:45 ◼ ► your first purchase if you use the promo code. Hello. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1185">TS</a>]
00:19:48 ◼ ► So using hello when you sign up for square space will give you ten percent off your purchase [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1188">TS</a>]
00:19:53 ◼ ► and it will show square space that you are coming from our show which lets them sponsor the show which works out for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1193">TS</a>]
00:19:58 ◼ ► everybody. It's win win. So what. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1198">TS</a>]
00:20:00 ◼ ► Again that's squarespace dot com to build an amazing web site and load is the promo code to get ten percent off [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1200">TS</a>]
00:20:06 ◼ ► and we think a square space for their support of our show Squarespace start here go anywhere so at the end of the last [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1206">TS</a>]
00:20:15 ◼ ► show we had a little bit of a discussion about KISS inflation and how some people and text messages with exes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1215">TS</a>]
00:20:23 ◼ ► Some people such as yourself are a big fan of the hug and so they do with the X O X O. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1223">TS</a>]
00:20:27 ◼ ► Kisses and hugs Mr Wise do one experiment E X O X X this is the fundamental point though is that the number of X.'s [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1227">TS</a>]
00:20:35 ◼ ► and O's increases as a function of time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1235">TS</a>]
00:20:38 ◼ ► and then eventually you end up looking like you're being a bit distant if you just sign with an accident because X O X [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1238">TS</a>]
00:20:45 ◼ ► O has become the new standard over time so this is case inflation on text messages and things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1245">TS</a>]
00:20:50 ◼ ► And during that conversation you were asking me about this and I just had no familiarity with this whatsoever [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1250">TS</a>]
00:20:58 ◼ ► and I was baffled by this world that you live in. So a couple days later my wife listens to the podcast. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1258">TS</a>]
00:21:06 ◼ ► And comes back to me with a piece of feedback which is that she does science as it is to me very frequently with X.'s [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1266">TS</a>]
00:21:16 ◼ ► and O's and I said to her No you don't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1276">TS</a>]
00:21:19 ◼ ► I've never seen X.'s and O's and then of course I ended up having to look at this on my phone [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1279">TS</a>]
00:21:24 ◼ ► and sure enough lots of her messages to me and with accent Oh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1284">TS</a>]
00:21:29 ◼ ► and I swear it's like my brain just never saw this I never registered it at all which is why in our conversation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1289">TS</a>]
00:21:36 ◼ ► together I could simply say something like No My wife doesn't do this I don't have any idea what you're talking about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1296">TS</a>]
00:21:41 ◼ ► Even though I've seen it probably hundreds of times in our married life together. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1301">TS</a>]
00:21:45 ◼ ► So I just thought I would I would say that I guess I don't know what it was like I was I should have been much more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1305">TS</a>]
00:21:53 ◼ ► familiar with that than I apparently was thrown out for being so not not helpful at all. All in Congress. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1313">TS</a>]
00:22:01 ◼ ► It's funny because when I asked you about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1321">TS</a>]
00:22:02 ◼ ► and said Does your wife sign off with kisses you get this weird pause that made me think that you were like like not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1322">TS</a>]
00:22:11 ◼ ► wanting to admit to and then you because you did this pause [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1331">TS</a>]
00:22:13 ◼ ► and then he just went you know dismissed out of hand so I thought OK I think I was I was thinking about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1333">TS</a>]
00:22:20 ◼ ► and coming to the conclusion that the answer was No I'm just looking out my message here so if I if I scroll about ten [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1340">TS</a>]
00:22:28 ◼ ► messages back my wife has a message that ends in X O X O for me so there we go. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1348">TS</a>]
00:22:34 ◼ ► Anyway I am less aware of instant message etiquette I guess is the bottom line of this whole conversation so I'm not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1354">TS</a>]
00:22:41 ◼ ► going to sign it with X X in the nose for you though I'm looking half either to get for an X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1361">TS</a>]
00:22:46 ◼ ► On a man for my wife I would just want X. I was no good. For chain messages back but it is a double X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1366">TS</a>]
00:22:54 ◼ ► That did you see the Michelin Web video that somebody left and read it I didn't know you can see [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1374">TS</a>]
00:22:59 ◼ ► and I will put it in the show notes it was Mitchell and Webb have a little conversation about kisses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1379">TS</a>]
00:23:06 ◼ ► and I thought it was great as many of their little comedy clubs are so opposite in the show not to people watch. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1386">TS</a>]
00:23:12 ◼ ► Yeah as the as the guy who makes number file I cannot tell you how many times I've been sent the You Tube video of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1392">TS</a>]
00:23:20 ◼ ► but it would be in the hundreds I don't know the mumblings can well make make a channel called Number five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1400">TS</a>]
00:23:27 ◼ ► and you get very familiar with a number when I'll send it to you can put that in the Shanghais too if you want. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1407">TS</a>]
00:23:34 ◼ ► Gosh I get sent a lot they have a lot of good ones. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1414">TS</a>]
00:23:37 ◼ ► They do a very good he said something on Twitter about keyboards and oh you know the fans got very excited [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1417">TS</a>]
00:23:46 ◼ ► and they're all like tell us more about your keyboard growth that's a different voice now is this my the fan new level [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1426">TS</a>]
00:23:53 ◼ ► if they have no voice what's known as voice I know I have a nuclear bomb. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1433">TS</a>]
00:23:58 ◼ ► I think you've forgotten how you do your own voice. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1438">TS</a>]
00:24:00 ◼ ► Now an interesting my distant sound that I things I don't know maybe it's just you've lost you've lost the skill you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1440">TS</a>]
00:24:07 ◼ ► think it doesn't sound there anymore I don't think it sounds as nerdy as it used to tell us about you cable I did get a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1447">TS</a>]
00:24:14 ◼ ► new keyboard. This is the kind of thing people want to know. Yeah and if you can hear from you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1454">TS</a>]
00:24:20 ◼ ► and you know my position on hearing keyboards on recordings I believe you are in favor of hearing the keyboard on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1460">TS</a>]
00:24:29 ◼ ► There was a number and it was more mass clicks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1469">TS</a>]
00:24:32 ◼ ► but I don't like I don't like clicking in my audio recordings it shows it shows a lack of respect to the audience I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1472">TS</a>]
00:24:40 ◼ ► think it probably when I'm typing it sure is more of a lack of respect to you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1480">TS</a>]
00:24:43 ◼ ► Yes Yes Well at the moment I have your own recordings and know it listening [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1483">TS</a>]
00:24:48 ◼ ► but if you hear clicking it will be much louder because when we recorded in the past [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1488">TS</a>]
00:24:54 ◼ ► and I had my old keyboard sometimes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1494">TS</a>]
00:24:56 ◼ ► when you were talking I would try to type quietly so that it wouldn't come up on the microphone and look stuff up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1496">TS</a>]
00:25:03 ◼ ► but I did get myself a new mechanical keyboard which I only just recently discovered are things that are still being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1503">TS</a>]
00:25:11 ◼ ► So back in the good old days of computers you know like in the one nine hundred eighty the one nine hundred ninety S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1511">TS</a>]
00:25:16 ◼ ► You had these keyboards with a really satisfying clicks because they had physical switches inside of that nickel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1516">TS</a>]
00:25:21 ◼ ► typewriters. No they're not ready. Typewriters and are often terrible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1521">TS</a>]
00:25:28 ◼ ► I was using a typewriter today would you believe. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1528">TS</a>]
00:25:30 ◼ ► Really before I was actually doing a fellow internet really yeah I bet I know it I know it yeah you know I was doing I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1530">TS</a>]
00:25:40 ◼ ► OK But yes they are all old keyboards used to have satisfying clicks [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1540">TS</a>]
00:25:44 ◼ ► and it was because there are physical switches on the inside [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1544">TS</a>]
00:25:47 ◼ ► and then over time manufacturers switch to what are called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1547">TS</a>]
00:25:51 ◼ ► and I think the rubber dome caps inside keyboards which are much softer and they have a kind of machine feel [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1551">TS</a>]
00:26:01 ◼ ► but never occurred to me that maybe somebody out there is still manufacturing mechanical keyboards I don't know why I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1561">TS</a>]
00:26:07 ◼ ► popped into my head one day but I went to look it up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1567">TS</a>]
00:26:10 ◼ ► and was super excited to discover that yes mechanical keyboards are still being manufactured [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1570">TS</a>]
00:26:14 ◼ ► and so as a kind of nice purchase for myself I decided that I had to buy one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1574">TS</a>]
00:26:18 ◼ ► and there was one sitting in front of me right now which is very nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1578">TS</a>]
00:26:22 ◼ ► and I have to say there is nothing more satisfying than typing on a mechanical keyboard is a good listening as well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1582">TS</a>]
00:26:28 ◼ ► I think I'd like that. Well the company who should sponsor us by the way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1588">TS</a>]
00:26:34 ◼ ► Well I actually don't know how to pronounce the name. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1594">TS</a>]
00:26:35 ◼ ► It's either W A S D or was I don't know if I'm to say it as a word or from sources say the letters [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1595">TS</a>]
00:26:42 ◼ ► but they kind of make the kind of personalize the keyboards so you can get them printed however you want with any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1602">TS</a>]
00:26:48 ◼ ► letters and you can get the colors of the keys anyway that you want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1608">TS</a>]
00:26:51 ◼ ► and you can get any size keyboard anyway that you want because one of my big complaints about keyboards is that like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1611">TS</a>]
00:26:57 ◼ ► when you buy a keyboard for your desktop there's too much of the junk on the right hand side like a phone number pad I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1617">TS</a>]
00:27:03 ◼ ► never want that and then you have to reach over it to get to the mouse. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1623">TS</a>]
00:27:06 ◼ ► So I got a little short keyboard I got it all in black [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1626">TS</a>]
00:27:10 ◼ ► and what is very exciting for me is I got a printed with the Dvorak keyboard layout [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1630">TS</a>]
00:27:18 ◼ ► but the biggest disadvantage is that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1638">TS</a>]
00:27:20 ◼ ► when we're recording a podcast I can't I can't be subtle anymore like he was me trying to type quietly. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1640">TS</a>]
00:27:28 ◼ ► That's OK I mean at least it's still here I think it's better to go out like if you going to be a bear be a grizzly. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1648">TS</a>]
00:27:35 ◼ ► Don't like it so I think I think that's the way to go. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1655">TS</a>]
00:27:38 ◼ ► I quite I look at this so I could get one of these printed like with my avid shortcut keys on it and stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1658">TS</a>]
00:27:42 ◼ ► and yeah you can upload anything that I think there's a way that you can tell them whatever you want to put on the keys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1662">TS</a>]
00:27:48 ◼ ► and they have presets for a whole bunch of different stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1668">TS</a>]
00:27:51 ◼ ► Yeah so I got them active Oreck preset and just I just got it in all black it was really nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1671">TS</a>]
00:27:56 ◼ ► but it is heavy like you could be the man to death with a mechanical keyboard. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1676">TS</a>]
00:28:00 ◼ ► They are not they're not made for your backpack [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1680">TS</a>]
00:28:02 ◼ ► or to carry around because I have to be wired into the computer kind of the wireless I think they need to be wired [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1682">TS</a>]
00:28:08 ◼ ► but I'm not one hundred percent sure on that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1688">TS</a>]
00:28:09 ◼ ► but the thing is the biggest advantage now is of course because I spent probably the majority of my time actually [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1689">TS</a>]
00:28:14 ◼ ► typing on my i Pad is that I can't use this delightful keyboard with my i Pad because if I brought the Starbucks people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1694">TS</a>]
00:28:20 ◼ ► would be really angry even if I had an adapter that went into my i Pad of trying to like type clackety clack clack [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1700">TS</a>]
00:28:25 ◼ ► clack in the corner there wouldn't be any that would say this is purely not the direct thing but the mechanical thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1705">TS</a>]
00:28:31 ◼ ► This is purely just kind of like a pleasure pleasure thing there's no kind of advantage to you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1711">TS</a>]
00:28:39 ◼ ► Functionally this is just a niceness it just sounds and feels nicest just makes the experience more pleasurable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1719">TS</a>]
00:28:46 ◼ ► Yeah it makes typing way nicer to do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1726">TS</a>]
00:28:49 ◼ ► and I don't know if it's just because these are the kind of keyboards I grew up with like that might just be a big part [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1729">TS</a>]
00:28:55 ◼ ► of it but I feel and I've been working with her for maybe about a week now and I am really aware that I can. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1735">TS</a>]
00:29:01 ◼ ► Once I get into the flow of typing like when I've been working on scripts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1741">TS</a>]
00:29:04 ◼ ► and things I swear it feels a lot easier to keep going [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1744">TS</a>]
00:29:07 ◼ ► and to type quickly on a mechanical keyboard that might just totally be in my head I'm fully willing to acknowledge [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1747">TS</a>]
00:29:12 ◼ ► that but it just feels like a really solid nice piece of equipment. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1752">TS</a>]
00:29:17 ◼ ► We can do anything I can do to increase enjoyment of your work. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1757">TS</a>]
00:29:20 ◼ ► Folks who work for them but isn't that exactly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1760">TS</a>]
00:29:22 ◼ ► when I got the keyboard I was genuinely excited to be able to go through my e-mail I have this huge pile of emails are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1762">TS</a>]
00:29:27 ◼ ► global or you can start trying in typing this out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1767">TS</a>]
00:29:30 ◼ ► So honestly even just for a day of being able to churn through my endless pile of e-mail it was definitely beneficial. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1770">TS</a>]
00:29:38 ◼ ► This episode of hello internet has been sponsored by our very good friends at Harry's Now you've heard me talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1778">TS</a>]
00:29:46 ◼ ► Harry's before they're so brilliant shaving kit everything you need to handle the razors and whatnot. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1786">TS</a>]
00:29:52 ◼ ► The usual talking point you've heard us say blades are made in Germany. Really good price. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1792">TS</a>]
00:29:58 ◼ ► Get them delivered to your door and sell it. Going to the shops. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1798">TS</a>]
00:30:01 ◼ ► But today I want to do something different I want to read you an e-mail I received just a couple of days ago from a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1801">TS</a>]
00:30:07 ◼ ► gentleman named Trevor who is a freshman at the University of Wisconsin. Actually it's the University of Wisconsin. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1807">TS</a>]
00:30:15 ◼ ► Our cost is that or is that right. I don't know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1815">TS</a>]
00:30:18 ◼ ► Anyway that's where he's from a center where the American went in as a freshman at the University of Wisconsin a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1818">TS</a>]
00:30:24 ◼ ► quality I have to say I mean I make educational videos [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1824">TS</a>]
00:30:27 ◼ ► and I get quite a lot of e-mails from people saying thank you for making this video [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1827">TS</a>]
00:30:31 ◼ ► and you've inspired me to learn something and I guess that's something I expect now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1831">TS</a>]
00:30:35 ◼ ► But I never expected I would get to a point where I started receiving emails this from Trevor basically thanking me for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1835">TS</a>]
00:30:41 ◼ ► shaving advice. Trevor says Harry's raises a fantastic. For Christmas I received a Winston set and I love it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1841">TS</a>]
00:30:51 ◼ ► The blah blah. As a university student with an aging razor Harries provides a high quality razor for a great price. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1851">TS</a>]
00:30:58 ◼ ► Although I have not yet used the shaving foam I can say the gel is even high quality [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1858">TS</a>]
00:31:03 ◼ ► and furthermore I will from now on be buying my shaving products from Harry's. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1863">TS</a>]
00:31:07 ◼ ► Thanks for your opinion on their raises because Brady's suit actually says Brady smoothing words really pushed me to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1867">TS</a>]
00:31:15 ◼ ► ask for one. Thanks and have a Happy New Year. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1875">TS</a>]
00:31:18 ◼ ► Sincerely Trevor and just so you know I'm not taking advantage of Trevor he does say. P.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1878">TS</a>]
00:31:23 ◼ ► You can use this email as a review for the ad if you guys make another one so there you go. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1883">TS</a>]
00:31:28 ◼ ► Don't take it from me don't take it from Grady take it from Trevor a freshman at the University of Wisconsin cautioned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1888">TS</a>]
00:31:36 ◼ ► copyright cannot Oshkosh anyway. Thank you so much and thank you Harry's for supporting our podcast. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1896">TS</a>]
00:31:44 ◼ ► Clearly it's not just us saying what we think about the products the people that are using them really enjoying them as [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1904">TS</a>]
00:31:49 ◼ ► well. It's really hard to show you how cool the Harry stuff is you have to look at their website. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1909">TS</a>]
00:31:54 ◼ ► It's Harry's dot com I also recommend the Winston it's sort of the silvery metal blade it's really. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1914">TS</a>]
00:32:00 ◼ ► Yes And once you start using it I'm sure you'll never go back. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1920">TS</a>]
00:32:03 ◼ ► Go to Harry's dot com You can get a starter set from as little as fifteen dollars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1923">TS</a>]
00:32:08 ◼ ► but best of all you can use the offer code. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1928">TS</a>]
00:32:11 ◼ ► I teach by the hello internet that age by when you check out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1931">TS</a>]
00:32:15 ◼ ► and you get five dollars off so you're saving money you getting great raises and you're also doing a favor for us here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1935">TS</a>]
00:32:22 ◼ ► Hello Internet. Thank you very much. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1942">TS</a>]
00:32:24 ◼ ► Harry's Now this something we spoke we've spoken about this many times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1944">TS</a>]
00:32:31 ◼ ► and we spoke about it again in the last episode [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1951">TS</a>]
00:32:33 ◼ ► and for some reason for the last couple of weeks it's really been stuck in my head more than ever before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1953">TS</a>]
00:32:41 ◼ ► and this is your avoidance of news though. OK. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1961">TS</a>]
00:32:46 ◼ ► That actually don't go on news Web sites you don't watch the nightly news. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1966">TS</a>]
00:32:51 ◼ ► You would it be fair to say I don't know if you can actively avoid the news well I think you're framing this all wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1971">TS</a>]
00:32:58 ◼ ► because I'm just living my life. You on the other hand go and seek out the news. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1978">TS</a>]
00:33:03 ◼ ► OK I'm out of I'm not avoiding anything. OK OK so. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1983">TS</a>]
00:33:10 ◼ ► This for some reason this has been bothering me a lot over the last couple of weeks. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1990">TS</a>]
00:33:14 ◼ ► It was funny because in the last pod cast I was I was surprised how much of a thing this was because I felt like we've [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/1994">TS</a>]
00:33:20 ◼ ► discussed this many times but it seems like you didn't truly understand until the last episode. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2000">TS</a>]
00:33:26 ◼ ► Not an eye I think I always understood. I think it is. I think it is a wrong headed of you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2006">TS</a>]
00:33:37 ◼ ► OK Now can I put a little bit please. Please go ahead. OK caviar away away. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2017">TS</a>]
00:33:46 ◼ ► First of all it's everyone's right how they live their life including yours. Right. Who and who am I to judge. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2026">TS</a>]
00:33:53 ◼ ► Etc etc Well first of all I think since we do a podcast together it's kind of your job to judge my life. I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2033">TS</a>]
00:34:00 ◼ ► Like in this circumstance it's time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2040">TS</a>]
00:34:02 ◼ ► OK Can I also just say from the start before I start trying to sound too grandiose that I am very aware that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2042">TS</a>]
00:34:13 ◼ ► and everyone listening to this podcast is just a sack of water on a spare key piece of rock around a star in a universe [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2053">TS</a>]
00:34:22 ◼ ► and we could not be more insignificant. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2062">TS</a>]
00:34:26 ◼ ► but I'm going to put that to one side because because if we don't put that to one side we might was OK it was right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2066">TS</a>]
00:34:32 ◼ ► Well I mean and I don't agree with anything that you just said there but OK we'll just let you keep going here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2072">TS</a>]
00:34:39 ◼ ► I think you should be following the news [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2079">TS</a>]
00:34:42 ◼ ► and the things that happen in the world more closely you should be part of your life OK. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2082">TS</a>]
00:34:50 ◼ ► There are two there are two main reasons the first reason [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2090">TS</a>]
00:34:53 ◼ ► and it's the lesser reason is I think you almost have a I don't want to say professional responsibility because you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2093">TS</a>]
00:35:02 ◼ ► know I would never suggest you're unprofessional and you're very good at your work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2102">TS</a>]
00:35:06 ◼ ► but I think it's almost incumbent on you in the job you need to know quite a bit about what's going on in the world at [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2106">TS</a>]
00:35:12 ◼ ► all times you have a very large following of people on various mediums. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2112">TS</a>]
00:35:19 ◼ ► You know you know whether it's social media [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2119">TS</a>]
00:35:23 ◼ ► or an obviously your You Tube channel you touch a lot of people's lives in a lot of different places around the world [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2123">TS</a>]
00:35:30 ◼ ► and to be to have no idea what's going on in the world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2130">TS</a>]
00:35:36 ◼ ► I'm exaggerating here of course when I say you have no idea what's going on in the world. Excuse my exaggeration. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2136">TS</a>]
00:35:41 ◼ ► We got to a first order approximation of coal gas to have no idea what's going on in the world I think is irresponsible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2141">TS</a>]
00:35:53 ◼ ► I'm using words like unprofessional and irresponsible but I'm using them in a very friendly way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2153">TS</a>]
00:35:57 ◼ ► I'm not I'm not signed yet. I think it's. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2157">TS</a>]
00:36:00 ◼ ► It's almost irresponsible to not know what's going on in the world because you communicate with these people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2160">TS</a>]
00:36:06 ◼ ► Admittedly you're not talking with them about day to day news that much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2166">TS</a>]
00:36:09 ◼ ► but I think you should know who I think you should know stuff you should be really across stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2169">TS</a>]
00:36:15 ◼ ► So partly so you don't step on landmines but also it just will allow you to have the kind of a sensitivity [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2175">TS</a>]
00:36:25 ◼ ► and a context for things you say that matches the context of everyone else living in the world because I think most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2185">TS</a>]
00:36:32 ◼ ► people in the world do follow the news and sort of know what's going on there today so I think it only right now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2192">TS</a>]
00:36:40 ◼ ► Well I think you're right about most people fall. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2200">TS</a>]
00:36:42 ◼ ► Yes Well here is a bracket that very tight like a I don't know if you want to I don't I don't know if you would respond [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2202">TS</a>]
00:36:48 ◼ ► to that. It's not my main point anyway. OK well maybe you should respond. You know yeah I don't know. Well I guess. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2208">TS</a>]
00:36:59 ◼ ► I've had this conversation with very many people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2219">TS</a>]
00:37:02 ◼ ► and that that comes down to some kind of version of even even my work aside it is like the responsibility of people to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2222">TS</a>]
00:37:09 ◼ ► follow the news. Yeah and I do not understand that that argument at all and I'm not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2229">TS</a>]
00:37:19 ◼ ► I've never had anybody make a convincing reason for why it's a responsibility to like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2239">TS</a>]
00:37:25 ◼ ► and what I mean here is on it on a daily basis like the thing you were talking about last time. Just go to C.N.N. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2245">TS</a>]
00:37:31 ◼ ► Dot com and see what the headlines are or whatever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2251">TS</a>]
00:37:35 ◼ ► I don't I don't see the responsibility I don't see the the compelling reason to do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2255">TS</a>]
00:37:41 ◼ ► and I have both lived a life where I did intensely and I would say much more regularly follow the news. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2261">TS</a>]
00:37:49 ◼ ► So when I when I was when I was working as a teacher I used to have a relatively long commute for part of my career [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2269">TS</a>]
00:37:55 ◼ ► and as a regular thing I had a bunch of podcasts I listen to that were sort of. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2275">TS</a>]
00:38:00 ◼ ► I'm just a news pod cast you know what's what's going on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2280">TS</a>]
00:38:03 ◼ ► and I was much more plugged into things happening in the world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2283">TS</a>]
00:38:07 ◼ ► And over time I kept turning that dial down and down and down about how much stuff I let in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2287">TS</a>]
00:38:13 ◼ ► and from my perspective my life seems much better now that I don't follow the news. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2293">TS</a>]
00:38:19 ◼ ► That's not that's not necessarily cause and causation. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2299">TS</a>]
00:38:23 ◼ ► This is this is you know that your life could be better now for other reasons my life is better for it for very many [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2303">TS</a>]
00:38:28 ◼ ► reasons like I have been working to make my life better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2308">TS</a>]
00:38:31 ◼ ► and I have accomplished that in a bunch of ways which I'm pretty happy about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2311">TS</a>]
00:38:34 ◼ ► but I can say that there are there are ways in which I could feel that the news was burning cycles in my brain that I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2314">TS</a>]
00:38:43 ◼ ► didn't need to be burnt that or I was thinking about stuff where I thought oh why am I thinking about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2323">TS</a>]
00:38:49 ◼ ► or like why why why am I upset about this topic [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2329">TS</a>]
00:38:53 ◼ ► or why is my brain kind of focusing on this thing to just know to no avail there's nothing I can do to to fix this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2333">TS</a>]
00:39:02 ◼ ► or anything so that is like there's a particular way in which I mean that my life is better at something called empathy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2342">TS</a>]
00:39:08 ◼ ► but maybe we'll come to that in a minute [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2348">TS</a>]
00:39:09 ◼ ► but you know if you don't know what topics I'm talking about like I can get hugely obsessed with how the voting systems [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2349">TS</a>]
00:39:16 ◼ ► work in particular like that's not necessarily empathy with human beings. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2356">TS</a>]
00:39:21 ◼ ► Still think it's a kind of empathy but anyway that's that's a distraction. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2361">TS</a>]
00:39:25 ◼ ► Yeah yeah but but so so so here's here's the thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2365">TS</a>]
00:39:29 ◼ ► When we're weighing this it's like I can I can point to measurable ways in which my life is better personally better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2369">TS</a>]
00:39:38 ◼ ► from not following the news and then people come along [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2378">TS</a>]
00:39:41 ◼ ► and tell me that I am I have some sort of responsibility to follow the news just as informed human being [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2381">TS</a>]
00:39:46 ◼ ► and I feel like you need a reason that's better than my life being better by not following the news [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2386">TS</a>]
00:39:51 ◼ ► and I don't I don't feel that anybody gives that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2391">TS</a>]
00:39:54 ◼ ► Well let me come let me come to my next point then because and I know you hate my analogies. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2394">TS</a>]
00:40:00 ◼ ► I love your knowledge is pretty I just think they're often terribly wrong headed talking about horses and courses [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2400">TS</a>]
00:40:10 ◼ ► OK if you want to say you were going to do one train journey in your life then for the sake of for the sake of one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2410">TS</a>]
00:40:18 ◼ ► let's say a loved one that say London to Edinburgh because it's one we've probably done and done that it's good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2418">TS</a>]
00:40:24 ◼ ► It's where we live so you can do this one train journey and to me this is who you are you are sitting on this train [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2424">TS</a>]
00:40:34 ◼ ► and you have your head in a book and your reading about all the great train journeys in history [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2434">TS</a>]
00:40:42 ◼ ► or you're reading a book about fictional train journeys that a bunch of hobbits once took on the train into mortal life [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2442">TS</a>]
00:40:48 ◼ ► and you're sitting there and you're thinking about the best your perfect trained [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2448">TS</a>]
00:40:53 ◼ ► and you're reading about what some views are from different trains and the whole time you sit there in a book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2453">TS</a>]
00:40:58 ◼ ► and then at the end you pull up in Edinburgh and you get off the train. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2458">TS</a>]
00:41:03 ◼ ► At no point on that train journey did you look at the wind. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2463">TS</a>]
00:41:07 ◼ ► Did you walk around and have a look at the other carriages and see what the food carriage was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2467">TS</a>]
00:41:11 ◼ ► and what the toilets were like on the train and talk to the other passengers. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2471">TS</a>]
00:41:14 ◼ ► You just spent the whole train journey reading and thinking about the train journeys [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2474">TS</a>]
00:41:19 ◼ ► and I think this is kind of what life is like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2479">TS</a>]
00:41:24 ◼ ► You have you have this one train journey that you get to go on depending on what you feel if you have this one train [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2484">TS</a>]
00:41:31 ◼ ► journey and I know there's a lot of people in the world and six billion or seven billion or billion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2491">TS</a>]
00:41:37 ◼ ► or whatever it is seems like a lot of people but it's not really that many people in the grand scheme of things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2497">TS</a>]
00:41:42 ◼ ► and these are the other people that you're sharing the train journey with on this one little train around this one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2502">TS</a>]
00:41:49 ◼ ► little star and then soon it will all be over [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2509">TS</a>]
00:41:52 ◼ ► and I think it is sad to think that you would spend your whole train journey with your head. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2512">TS</a>]
00:42:00 ◼ ► It buried in a book thinking about stuff that's happened before stuff that might happen in the future [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2520">TS</a>]
00:42:05 ◼ ► or stuff that never even happened it's just made up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2525">TS</a>]
00:42:07 ◼ ► and not devote more time to the journey itself to look out the window to get off at a few stations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2527">TS</a>]
00:42:14 ◼ ► and walk around to have to think about all the other people that are doing the journey with you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2534">TS</a>]
00:42:20 ◼ ► Like I think I'm missing here I think I think that's wrong. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2540">TS</a>]
00:42:24 ◼ ► I think in life you know you've got these other people that live on the planet with you I'm sure they're a long way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2544">TS</a>]
00:42:29 ◼ ► away and you might never make them but these are kind of there's a kind of community that we're on here [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2549">TS</a>]
00:42:38 ◼ ► and I think it's good that we live in a time where we can know what all the others are doing and what's going on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2558">TS</a>]
00:42:43 ◼ ► and I know the media is sometimes not the best prism and it's flawed [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2563">TS</a>]
00:42:48 ◼ ► but everything's flawed I think sitting I think you're sitting there with your head in a book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2568">TS</a>]
00:42:54 ◼ ► and I hope that you spend enough time looking up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2574">TS</a>]
00:42:58 ◼ ► and realizing that there are billions of other people on this train with gay and stuff happening to all of them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2578">TS</a>]
00:43:03 ◼ ► and some of it's good and some of it's bad because this is the unshorn journey you're going to get [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2583">TS</a>]
00:43:08 ◼ ► and you don't want to get to the end and think. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2588">TS</a>]
00:43:11 ◼ ► What kind of state of mind I think he I think following the news makes you part of a really special community [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2591">TS</a>]
00:43:18 ◼ ► and who knows maybe maybe there are millions of other communities spread all through the universe. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2598">TS</a>]
00:43:22 ◼ ► Maybe where the anyone but this is a special thing this is a special Roger on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2602">TS</a>]
00:43:27 ◼ ► and you're on it with a bunch of other special people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2607">TS</a>]
00:43:30 ◼ ► and I think you should pay attention to what journey all those other people around. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2610">TS</a>]
00:43:37 ◼ ► That's all I have to say OK so I swear I'm not making horses for courses joke here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2617">TS</a>]
00:43:43 ◼ ► OK But your analogy seems exactly backwards to me in the same way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2623">TS</a>]
00:43:50 ◼ ► Were it to me it feels like to use the train as life metaphor. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2630">TS</a>]
00:43:55 ◼ ► Yeah I am on a train and there are people around me and there are things. Look out the window. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2635">TS</a>]
00:44:01 ◼ ► And this train is my life and would you want me to do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2641">TS</a>]
00:44:05 ◼ ► Instead of looking out the window [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2645">TS</a>]
00:44:07 ◼ ► or talking to the people nearby is you want me to read the newspaper to read the newspaper about things that are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2647">TS</a>]
00:44:14 ◼ ► happening on the other side of the planet things that I can do nothing about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2654">TS</a>]
00:44:18 ◼ ► or things that are just totally unrelated to what's happening around me right now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2658">TS</a>]
00:44:23 ◼ ► and it has what do you want me to do is to read the newspaper that you want me to not look out the window to not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2663">TS</a>]
00:44:29 ◼ ► possibly interact with the people around me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2669">TS</a>]
00:44:32 ◼ ► That's to me what the news seems like now you've taken you've taken you've taken the analogy a step further to the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2672">TS</a>]
00:44:38 ◼ ► point where it doesn't make that it doesn't make sense that's not the point I was making. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2678">TS</a>]
00:44:42 ◼ ► I understand the point you're making but but that is the way it feels to me and I think this is also a good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2682">TS</a>]
00:44:49 ◼ ► I always feel kind of bad talking about the news if you're Brady because you know you were a journalist you are still a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2689">TS</a>]
00:44:55 ◼ ► journalist and in many ways you're sort of an independent journalist [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2695">TS</a>]
00:44:58 ◼ ► and I can honestly say you're the best journalist I've ever known [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2698">TS</a>]
00:45:04 ◼ ► and if all journalists were like you I would have much more interest in the news [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2704">TS</a>]
00:45:09 ◼ ► but my experience with the news is that it is all even if you want to follow it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2709">TS</a>]
00:45:16 ◼ ► So much of it is just terrible and even trying to filter through the stuff that is just wildly inaccurate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2716">TS</a>]
00:45:23 ◼ ► or misrepresentative or stuff that's just it's like ginned up controversies like there's just a million things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2723">TS</a>]
00:45:29 ◼ ► and there is the abstract notion of the news which I think is what you are arguing for. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2729">TS</a>]
00:45:37 ◼ ► And then there is the practicalities. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2737">TS</a>]
00:45:39 ◼ ► OK well I'm going to follow the news which which website am I going to follow in particular when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2739">TS</a>]
00:45:45 ◼ ► when you get down into those details it all just looks particularly terrible. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2745">TS</a>]
00:45:50 ◼ ► but if all of the newspapers in the world were written by Brady herons you know that might be a very different story. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2750">TS</a>]
00:45:57 ◼ ► But that's like that's not the actual world that we're in. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2757">TS</a>]
00:46:00 ◼ ► I think I think it's a bit of a cop out to say that the media's broken like you know a policeman a corrupt state [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2760">TS</a>]
00:46:05 ◼ ► but it doesn't mean when you get robbed you know when to call the placement [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2765">TS</a>]
00:46:07 ◼ ► and you know politicians are corrupt that doesn't mean that you would polish democracy like you've got a you know now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2767">TS</a>]
00:46:14 ◼ ► I'm kind of I'm I will grant that and our kids decide we can all agree that we need some kind of governing structure [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2774">TS</a>]
00:46:20 ◼ ► and we need some kind of law enforcement and yes you know hospitals aren't perfect but I will go to one if I am sick. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2780">TS</a>]
00:46:28 ◼ ► But I see I don't see the need for the news in my life I don't see what this I don't see what this adds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2788">TS</a>]
00:46:35 ◼ ► and I don't see what what following it does I just feel a bit like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2795">TS</a>]
00:46:40 ◼ ► and I know I know you can change a legit analogy just to in another way I know exactly how you will change it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2800">TS</a>]
00:46:47 ◼ ► but I feel like you're going to Yankee Stadium with fifty thousand other people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2807">TS</a>]
00:46:52 ◼ ► and like this unique amazing game is happening and we're all together as a crowd cheering and enjoying it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2812">TS</a>]
00:47:01 ◼ ► and then after the game someone comes up to you and says What was the game like what was the experience like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2821">TS</a>]
00:47:05 ◼ ► and you're like I don't I want to read the whole book. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2825">TS</a>]
00:47:09 ◼ ► Well everyone else was watching the game and six experiencing the emotions of the of the main of of the journey [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2829">TS</a>]
00:47:15 ◼ ► and having a hot dog and doing all that and I feel like it's an honor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2835">TS</a>]
00:47:19 ◼ ► and you know you can go too far the other way I'm not saying you should sit there watching a twenty four hour news [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2839">TS</a>]
00:47:24 ◼ ► channel every minute of your life so that you know what every other humans doing there's a balance to be struck [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2844">TS</a>]
00:47:29 ◼ ► but I just suspect I feel like you're striking up way too far in the other direction to the point where you're just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2849">TS</a>]
00:47:37 ◼ ► sitting in the corner of a library and I don't know what frustrates me so much why do I care. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2857">TS</a>]
00:47:43 ◼ ► You know you're still my friend and you entertain me and you make good videos. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2863">TS</a>]
00:47:46 ◼ ► So why do I care that you don't watch the news. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2866">TS</a>]
00:47:47 ◼ ► But for some reason it has been bothering me in the last couple of weeks. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2867">TS</a>]
00:47:50 ◼ ► It's not just almost everybody I interact with Everywhere I go. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2870">TS</a>]
00:47:55 ◼ ► When this comes up everybody is bothered by this and I feel I find it very interesting that this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2875">TS</a>]
00:48:00 ◼ ► That people are really bothered but I have I have gotten through to a few people to do the experiment. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2880">TS</a>]
00:48:09 ◼ ► or just make a note of the things that are occupying your mind in the news on a particular day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2889">TS</a>]
00:48:14 ◼ ► and then write them down and then look at that list three weeks from now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2894">TS</a>]
00:48:18 ◼ ► and see how much of that stuff on that list even matters at all. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2898">TS</a>]
00:48:20 ◼ ► And very good experiment and I've left and you are dead wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2900">TS</a>]
00:48:24 ◼ ► and I've thought a lot about the other point you made that things that seem important now later on don't seem important. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2904">TS</a>]
00:48:30 ◼ ► I see in my own videos actually I sometimes see videos I made because I felt like I had to make them because they were [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2910">TS</a>]
00:48:36 ◼ ► so topical unsought gusty and I watch them now and think that wasn't that important event really was a no go. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2916">TS</a>]
00:48:43 ◼ ► But I do feel you can go too far the other way you know with a few with you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2923">TS</a>]
00:48:49 ◼ ► I've but I've said before that it is it is impossible to live in the modern world without some news getting through [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2929">TS</a>]
00:48:57 ◼ ► and so I go on Twitter I'm aware of the occasional really big events that occur you know I went to the local corner [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2937">TS</a>]
00:49:05 ◼ ► and like there's newspapers on the stand as I'm waiting to check out stuff so I was like I see the headlines is it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2945">TS</a>]
00:49:11 ◼ ► when you say avoiding the news it's not like I'm like oh avert my eyes from the headlines you know I was I don't want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2951">TS</a>]
00:49:16 ◼ ► to I don't want to soil my pure brain and worry about what's happening elsewhere. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2956">TS</a>]
00:49:22 ◼ ► And of course I could never go on Twitter if I totally wanted to avoid everything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2962">TS</a>]
00:49:25 ◼ ► but so that's why I just I think it's different that to me is the question of Is there any benefit in spending time actively [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2965">TS</a>]
00:49:32 ◼ ► seeking out the news I don't think so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2972">TS</a>]
00:49:36 ◼ ► and I don't think it's cheaper to have as one item on your checklist to go to the front page the B.B.C. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2976">TS</a>]
00:49:42 ◼ ► Website and just check what the top three stories are and if you look at them think that's just a bunch of filler. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2982">TS</a>]
00:49:47 ◼ ► Typical media. But if there's one there that you think gosh that's you know that's what it was. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2987">TS</a>]
00:49:53 ◼ ► But you forget I used to follow the news more regularly. Like I've I've done this. I used to do this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/2993">TS</a>]
00:50:00 ◼ ► Yes and I've come to the conclusion that it is just there's no there's no point in it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3000">TS</a>]
00:50:05 ◼ ► There's no point in it except derailment like that. That's that's what lies that way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3005">TS</a>]
00:50:12 ◼ ► So OK I don't mean to I don't mean to bring you down grade you haven't brought me down. You let me have my say. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3012">TS</a>]
00:50:18 ◼ ► You were very You were very understanding and patient with me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3018">TS</a>]
00:50:22 ◼ ► Well I can I I would I would just say that I still don't I still don't hear the reason to follow the news from you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3022">TS</a>]
00:50:32 ◼ ► and this is what I would really like a reason I would not like a metaphor. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3032">TS</a>]
00:50:37 ◼ ► I what I would like I would like to know what what why should I think it is good to see you as a person to have a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3037">TS</a>]
00:50:45 ◼ ► higher level of empathy with the other people you share this planet with. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3045">TS</a>]
00:50:49 ◼ ► but having empathy for other people is a is a totally different issue because I don't follow the news is not the same thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3049">TS</a>]
00:50:56 ◼ ► as lacking in empathy. Well it's kind of like a public. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3056">TS</a>]
00:51:01 ◼ ► It's kind of like a very flagrant showing of disregard for what's happening elsewhere. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3061">TS</a>]
00:51:06 ◼ ► It's also not it's also not disregard it's. It's what is is and you forget the wording of this thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3066">TS</a>]
00:51:19 ◼ ► It was like the Serenity Prayer grant me the serenity to accept the things I cannot change the courage to change the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3079">TS</a>]
00:51:27 ◼ ► things I can and the wisdom to know the difference. Yes I feel like it like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3087">TS</a>]
00:51:32 ◼ ► The wisdom to know the difference and [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3092">TS</a>]
00:51:34 ◼ ► and the acceptance of things I cannot change like that like that is the news to a very large extent. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3094">TS</a>]
00:51:41 ◼ ► The only reason that prayer doesn't apply to you though is that you don't know what the things are you don't know what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3101">TS</a>]
00:51:50 ◼ ► or can change because you don't know the things you're ignoring the things I understand that point [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3110">TS</a>]
00:51:57 ◼ ► but I just I still say that that almost by definition. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3117">TS</a>]
00:52:00 ◼ ► Stuff that is covered in the news is unusual stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3120">TS</a>]
00:52:05 ◼ ► and it's stuff that I can have almost no effect on the stuff that is presented in the news it is not about solving [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3125">TS</a>]
00:52:13 ◼ ► stuff it's about getting your attention on these things. Let me ask you one final question. Yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3133">TS</a>]
00:52:20 ◼ ► If everyone in the world to morrow deployed to see G P gray philosophy to news consumption what what would happen. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3140">TS</a>]
00:52:32 ◼ ► Besides a whole bunch of media empires going out of business what would happen what would it be in the world's best [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3152">TS</a>]
00:52:40 ◼ ► interest if everyone took your level of interest in news and current events. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3160">TS</a>]
00:52:46 ◼ ► I don't think the world would be that different to be honest. I do a look at how do you think it would be different. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3166">TS</a>]
00:52:53 ◼ ► I think they would I think the rich will get richer the poor get poorer. The corrupt would get corrupt. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3173">TS</a>]
00:53:00 ◼ ► I think when tragedies happen there would be no help from the outside I think when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3180">TS</a>]
00:53:09 ◼ ► when I think what injustice was happening nothing would be done about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3189">TS</a>]
00:53:13 ◼ ► You got you gotta stop there because again you're you're acting as though huge events I don't hear about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3193">TS</a>]
00:53:19 ◼ ► or that they don't come come through in my system. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3199">TS</a>]
00:53:22 ◼ ► You you are postulating a world in which everyone is actively blind to everything that is occurring everywhere in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3202">TS</a>]
00:53:30 ◼ ► There's often some pretty big things you don't know about that is that is true [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3210">TS</a>]
00:53:33 ◼ ► and to be fair if everyone ignored the news the news which kind of wither on the vine anyway [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3213">TS</a>]
00:53:38 ◼ ► and they get even less tonight but that I know you have that's not a reason to stay and I realize [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3218">TS</a>]
00:53:43 ◼ ► but yeah yeah I guess this is this is again where I think like you are the ideal journalist [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3223">TS</a>]
00:53:48 ◼ ► and you are you are a good embodiment of the story that the news likes to tell itself about oh you know we you know we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3228">TS</a>]
00:53:55 ◼ ► hold that we hold power to account really really do you really. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3235">TS</a>]
00:54:00 ◼ ► News I'm not super convinced that you do not get you there otherwise to hold power to account [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3240">TS</a>]
00:54:07 ◼ ► and not as you are outraged because you think you know you don't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3247">TS</a>]
00:54:14 ◼ ► The only way to hold power to account is not writing kind of hoax some stories about you know deep political issues you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3254">TS</a>]
00:54:23 ◼ ► know the kind. Can I give you another little a little thought experiment here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3263">TS</a>]
00:54:28 ◼ ► Something I thought about a bunch I haven't ever told anyone about this because I think a part make people angry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3268">TS</a>]
00:54:33 ◼ ► but why don't I do it on a podcast list I think people like this is perfect right so your thought experiment of what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3273">TS</a>]
00:54:39 ◼ ► happens everybody avoids the news in the way that I do something similar that I have thought about is this you have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3279">TS</a>]
00:54:45 ◼ ► brought up it before that. O C G B gray you don't like the news. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3285">TS</a>]
00:54:50 ◼ ► You like things when it's all just settled when it's just history [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3290">TS</a>]
00:54:54 ◼ ► and you know you want to wait until the you know we have things all written down [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3294">TS</a>]
00:54:58 ◼ ► and we have like a definitive account of what has occurred which I have argued with you many times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3298">TS</a>]
00:55:03 ◼ ► but I have often wondered if I could press a button that would erase all knowledge of history from humanity. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3303">TS</a>]
00:55:13 ◼ ► Would I press that button. As in nothing nothing changes. We don't forget the current state of the world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3313">TS</a>]
00:55:20 ◼ ► Right but people just forget anything about history you just you know wake up tomorrow and we just go right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3320">TS</a>]
00:55:27 ◼ ► Obviously I still know I'm and I'm like I'm an American I'm living in the U.K. Everybody in the U.K. Knows the U.K. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3327">TS</a>]
00:55:32 ◼ ► Is a country but they just forget all of the relations that say the U.K. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3332">TS</a>]
00:55:37 ◼ ► Ever had with France or with Ireland or with India. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3337">TS</a>]
00:55:40 ◼ ► Or that Germany had with Poland or any of these kind of removing not the kind of the baggage in the stereotypes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3340">TS</a>]
00:55:47 ◼ ► and I think yeah just like I mean it quite literally removing all knowledge of like the politics of history. Yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3347">TS</a>]
00:55:54 ◼ ► Just all those books got burned and everybody forgot. I would argue that that like. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3354">TS</a>]
00:56:00 ◼ ► I think that could be a better world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3360">TS</a>]
00:56:02 ◼ ► I honestly think I would be pretty tempted to press that button and set alight all knowledge of human history. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3362">TS</a>]
00:56:09 ◼ ► So you down described to this you know we learn from our mistakes and that's why history is important. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3369">TS</a>]
00:56:13 ◼ ► You know that's that I mean come on I think if you think about that for two seconds that's obviously a load of bull. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3373">TS</a>]
00:56:19 ◼ ► That whole notion of only one thing that sometimes to actually it's so wrong that is the kind of thing historians like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3379">TS</a>]
00:56:25 ◼ ► to tell everybody oh it's really important we know all of history so we can learn from it. Oh yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3385">TS</a>]
00:56:30 ◼ ► You have done a great job of learning from that history and that we've never made the same mistake twice. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3390">TS</a>]
00:56:35 ◼ ► That was good job historians. So I would argue that I think that that could be a better world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3395">TS</a>]
00:56:42 ◼ ► Do you would it would do you think do you agree with me if you disagree with me on this point I think if you could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3402">TS</a>]
00:56:49 ◼ ► Wouldn't bury your nose in history books [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3409">TS</a>]
00:56:50 ◼ ► and maybe you'd live with the rest of us in the now which is first of all you used to keep thinking I don't read [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3410">TS</a>]
00:56:58 ◼ ► history I am remarkably uninterested in history you think that I'm some sort of like history buff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3418">TS</a>]
00:57:04 ◼ ► but I should look there I am not. Do you watch your videos. Do you watch my view if you watch them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3424">TS</a>]
00:57:11 ◼ ► If you actually watch them you will notice how little history there actually is and things right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3431">TS</a>]
00:57:17 ◼ ► Everybody thinks my videos are about history but go back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3437">TS</a>]
00:57:20 ◼ ► and look at them they are not the last book that could be considered a history book I read was like a couple years ago. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3440">TS</a>]
00:57:26 ◼ ► Anyway aside from your your terrible concern that I follow the news in detail now would you be at all tempted to press [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3446">TS</a>]
00:57:35 ◼ ► but I'm just like hypothetically do you think you could be a better world if you were to erase all of knowledge of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3455">TS</a>]
00:57:46 ◼ ► My instinct is not is that it would be a bad idea and why do you think it would be a bad idea. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3466">TS</a>]
00:57:53 ◼ ► Because I love I love I love history and heritage I love that I love that we got here because of a story. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3473">TS</a>]
00:58:00 ◼ ► And I would hate to lose that story. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3480">TS</a>]
00:58:02 ◼ ► For better or worse I love I love that chapter in and an amazing book and I don't want to lose the book. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3482">TS</a>]
00:58:11 ◼ ► But you're acknowledging that the book might be causing problems yet so I feel like you agree with me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3491">TS</a>]
00:58:19 ◼ ► but you still wouldn't press the button. I know it's something that I've run into here in the U.K. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3499">TS</a>]
00:58:23 ◼ ► In particular which I have found just weird is is a particular kind of like people really not liking other people who [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3503">TS</a>]
00:58:33 ◼ ► are from ludicrously short distances away. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3513">TS</a>]
00:58:36 ◼ ► Yeah you know I mean I have known to others [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3516">TS</a>]
00:58:41 ◼ ► but you know you can pick almost any pair of these they'll just pick one in particular which is I have known Welsh [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3521">TS</a>]
00:58:46 ◼ ► people who passionately hate English people all English people and I can see where I was from my window right now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3526">TS</a>]
00:58:54 ◼ ► First stuff that happened nine hundred years ago right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3534">TS</a>]
00:58:58 ◼ ► And and I have conversations with these people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3538">TS</a>]
00:59:00 ◼ ► and they seem like really really dead set about it now before anybody gets angry. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3540">TS</a>]
00:59:05 ◼ ► You know you can do this with any combination you want I know there are people who hate Scottish people I know Scott of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3545">TS</a>]
00:59:10 ◼ ► people who are in that like not in a jokey way but in a serious way that like they like they bear resentment [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3550">TS</a>]
00:59:16 ◼ ► and that to me is just beyond stupid. It's like there's no reason for this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3556">TS</a>]
00:59:20 ◼ ► Everybody who was involved in this is long dead and buried in the ground. I don't understand this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3560">TS</a>]
00:59:27 ◼ ► This attachment to people from hundreds and hundreds of years ago like it like it affects your life at all now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3567">TS</a>]
00:59:35 ◼ ► and if you take your duty anywhere else you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3575">TS</a>]
00:59:39 ◼ ► and it's you know whatever you can to live your life the way you want to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3579">TS</a>]
00:59:42 ◼ ► So so that's kind of why I often think that like knowledge is that that England screwed over Wales nine hundred years [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3582">TS</a>]
00:59:50 ◼ ► You know what it might just be better if I wasn't if that wasn't around anymore if we just erased all of all of history [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3590">TS</a>]
00:59:56 ◼ ► and I feel like you are right in that the news. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3596">TS</a>]
01:00:00 ◼ ► In some senses the leading the vanguard of what will eventually become history. Yeah. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3600">TS</a>]
01:00:06 ◼ ► And so to me this is just it just seems like an extension of you know you you want me to follow the news [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3606">TS</a>]
01:00:13 ◼ ► but you know I would press the button that would erase all of history from knowledge if I could. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3613">TS</a>]
01:00:18 ◼ ► So I in some ways I'm willing to go much much further on this one point. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3618">TS</a>]
01:00:23 ◼ ► What is the point of life if it isn't stories and like what is it just just to have X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3623">TS</a>]
01:00:30 ◼ ► Number of dollars in the bank when you die. Well if if you haven't got stories and stuff that happened. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3630">TS</a>]
01:00:36 ◼ ► Good stuff and bad stuff and happy times and sad times but if you haven't got that when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3636">TS</a>]
01:00:41 ◼ ► but I mean my my life is that is the story of my life [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3641">TS</a>]
01:00:45 ◼ ► but I mean I mean how how far back can you honestly trace your family [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3645">TS</a>]
01:00:50 ◼ ► and how much would it matter if you discovered at some point that oh you know you did some of the genealogy wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3650">TS</a>]
01:00:55 ◼ ► and it was some other family that was that was your past family right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3655">TS</a>]
01:00:58 ◼ ► Doesn't matter it doesn't it doesn't make any difference. Yeah yeah right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3658">TS</a>]
01:01:06 ◼ ► Let me give you let me give you an example of like of like empathy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3666">TS</a>]
01:01:09 ◼ ► All right and then the kind of history and history of this which is this might this might be a little bit sensitive [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3669">TS</a>]
01:01:16 ◼ ► or people will try to preface this I don't even know how to preface this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3676">TS</a>]
01:01:19 ◼ ► but so I mention a few times I've done some road trips across the United States isn't being overly serious. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3679">TS</a>]
01:01:26 ◼ ► Sorry everybody I'm going to do a couple road trips across the U.S. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3686">TS</a>]
01:01:30 ◼ ► and They are very interesting things to do and you know if you ever have the ability to do it I highly recommend it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3690">TS</a>]
01:01:37 ◼ ► But on on one of those trips I'm not going to say exactly where. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3697">TS</a>]
01:01:40 ◼ ► Somewhere in America we were driving across a very large Indian reservation my wife was with me at the time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3700">TS</a>]
01:01:48 ◼ ► and like I've been I've traveled around the world like I have been to many places I can honestly say that this was one [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3708">TS</a>]
01:01:57 ◼ ► of the most horrifically poor places. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3717">TS</a>]
01:02:01 ◼ ► and my wife who is much more well traveled than I She was like she's never seen poverty like this it was just a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3721">TS</a>]
01:02:12 ◼ ► And to me this is this is the this is the kind of thing where it's like look these people are in a terrible situation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3732">TS</a>]
01:02:19 ◼ ► that we kind of in like this is a particular American problem [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3739">TS</a>]
01:02:23 ◼ ► but that America kind of allows to exist for historical reasons. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3743">TS</a>]
01:02:28 ◼ ► I honestly think that if we woke up tomorrow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3748">TS</a>]
01:02:32 ◼ ► and everybody forgot everything that there ever was to know about colonialism and we know what happened with America [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3752">TS</a>]
01:02:40 ◼ ► and the Native Americans and we just woke up tomorrow and could remember anything but just looked around [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3760">TS</a>]
01:02:45 ◼ ► and said Why on earth are they there is there this group of people in poverty that we except nowhere else in the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3765">TS</a>]
01:02:54 ◼ ► country. We would we wouldn't let that stand. And I feel like this is another example of where history is no good. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3774">TS</a>]
01:03:03 ◼ ► And what you care about is like what like what is the situation of people today are there people who who need help like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3783">TS</a>]
01:03:11 ◼ ► and I don't really care what the historical reasons are like it as to how they got there I care how much help they need. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3791">TS</a>]
01:03:19 ◼ ► Today I don't know if I'm going to carry it off track here but that's that's sort of how I feel about that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3799">TS</a>]
01:03:23 ◼ ► It's a state said at the start of a good argument for the role of the media. What's going on today. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3803">TS</a>]
01:03:29 ◼ ► Where do things need to be done today. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3809">TS</a>]
01:03:31 ◼ ► I know it's this idealized maybe not you know yet when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3811">TS</a>]
01:03:34 ◼ ► and where can I ask you like how much is the media focusing on that. None. Exactly none. No Is that right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3814">TS</a>]
01:03:42 ◼ ► That's I mean I can't speak to Indian reservations [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3822">TS</a>]
01:03:45 ◼ ► but it's not true that there are no parts of the media that are not highlighting places where there are serious [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3825">TS</a>]
01:03:51 ◼ ► problems in the world the media highlighting you know places where there's problems in the in the world. Fine. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3831">TS</a>]
01:03:57 ◼ ► To me this is this is like a fixable problem with. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3837">TS</a>]
01:04:00 ◼ ► In in the in a confined region that is allowed to exist if we didn't have historical knowledge of it it wouldn't it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3840">TS</a>]
01:04:06 ◼ ► wouldn't be allowed to stay the way it is. Yeah I don't know that's never going to exist. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3846">TS</a>]
01:04:10 ◼ ► Whereas the news media can does exist and can can do some stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3850">TS</a>]
01:04:15 ◼ ► but I'm not I don't want to I'm not making the case for the news media as a force for good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3855">TS</a>]
01:04:20 ◼ ► but I don't that's not particularly interesting to me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3860">TS</a>]
01:04:24 ◼ ► Yeah and I think it's a pretty lame argument when you say you should watch it because the fourth estate [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3864">TS</a>]
01:04:28 ◼ ► and it will make the world a better place. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3868">TS</a>]
01:04:30 ◼ ► I make the argument that you should follow the news and stuff in the media just because you're a citizen of the world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3870">TS</a>]
01:04:38 ◼ ► And and I think it's good for you to know what the other citizens are up to in some way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3878">TS</a>]
01:04:45 ◼ ► and you make a very good case why you don't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3885">TS</a>]
01:04:48 ◼ ► And as I said at the very start I respect it but this has been a moment and we've certainly devoted a lot of thought. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3888">TS</a>]
01:04:57 ◼ ► So maybe we should move on to more important issues. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3897">TS</a>]
01:05:02 ◼ ► I put this on it and it's a couple of weeks ago and I don't even know what to say about it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3902">TS</a>]
01:05:05 ◼ ► but it was just a feeling that I had multiple times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3905">TS</a>]
01:05:08 ◼ ► and this is going to make me sound really stupid OK But anyway no go for it I want to hear with a bullet point of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3908">TS</a>]
01:05:17 ◼ ► list because this is calling to me Do you think this is like I know we both joke about you know not not having lots of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3917">TS</a>]
01:05:25 ◼ ► patients for spending time with little kids. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3925">TS</a>]
01:05:30 ◼ ► But this is not what this is about this is about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3930">TS</a>]
01:05:32 ◼ ► when you do spend time with kids which sometimes can be very pleasurable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3932">TS</a>]
01:05:36 ◼ ► It depends it depends on the kids get it just like people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3936">TS</a>]
01:05:39 ◼ ► Yes and I recently spent quite a bit of time with my nephew who I love very much and had had a really good time with. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3939">TS</a>]
01:05:47 ◼ ► But there was one of motion that I often feel when I'm with little kids like he's like three is out or something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3947">TS</a>]
01:05:52 ◼ ► and there is this feeling of I wrote superiority but it could also be described as kind of this sort of knowledge. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3952">TS</a>]
01:06:00 ◼ ► Which you feel so like omnipotent when you're with little kids and you understand things so much better [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3960">TS</a>]
01:06:08 ◼ ► and like we adults are like these like gods [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3968">TS</a>]
01:06:12 ◼ ► and they're like trying to understand things you knew what they can't possibly understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3972">TS</a>]
01:06:16 ◼ ► and you have occasional use of these waves of emotion I just know so much more than you like I can impart so much [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3976">TS</a>]
01:06:22 ◼ ► knowledge on to you and you don't understand this but I do [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3982">TS</a>]
01:06:25 ◼ ► and I don't know what that I don't know what it says about me that I feel that over time it's like I'm trying to think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3985">TS</a>]
01:06:32 ◼ ► of a really good example but I haven't I haven't really got one. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3992">TS</a>]
01:06:34 ◼ ► But like like like a category like near a lake or something and you'll be like don't go near the lake. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/3994">TS</a>]
01:06:41 ◼ ► Can you stop them going into like the things you know so much more about why that is you know about drowning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4001">TS</a>]
01:06:47 ◼ ► and oxygen and swimming and all these things like all these you have so much more knowledge than them [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4007">TS</a>]
01:06:53 ◼ ► and they like these like these little nothings that just know nothing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4013">TS</a>]
01:06:59 ◼ ► and it's like a really I find a really nice feeling in a funny way. Does that make any sense. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4019">TS</a>]
01:07:12 ◼ ► when I'm around little kids probably the thought that is in my head the most often is you just so useless at everything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4032">TS</a>]
01:07:21 ◼ ► When I look at a little kid so you can't do it you can't do anything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4041">TS</a>]
01:07:25 ◼ ► You know we don't live in an agrarian society where I can send you out to the field [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4045">TS</a>]
01:07:29 ◼ ► and you could at least pull up the weeds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4049">TS</a>]
01:07:30 ◼ ► and do something useful you can't do anything useful you don't know anything about anything [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4050">TS</a>]
01:07:36 ◼ ► and you're just a huge burden on society that we tolerate because eventually you'll grow up and you will be useful [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4056">TS</a>]
01:07:42 ◼ ► but not today. But doesn't that make you feel good because you are useful. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4062">TS</a>]
01:07:46 ◼ ► Like you kind of like you're like one day you will be mighty like me one day you will be able to buy food one day you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4066">TS</a>]
01:07:55 ◼ ► will be able to drive one. One day you will be able to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4075">TS</a>]
01:08:00 ◼ ► Can a DAW but now you cannot you know and the gods that can do these things and you are just like and and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4080">TS</a>]
01:08:08 ◼ ► and the other adults kind of look at each other knowingly like we know we know the stuff we know how to open a door. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4088">TS</a>]
01:08:15 ◼ ► They just I guess I don't derive feelings of superiority by surrounding myself with uselessness. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4095">TS</a>]
01:08:23 ◼ ► It's not like oh it's not like a menacing superiority it's not like one ha ha ha ha like evil it's just a kind of like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4103">TS</a>]
01:08:31 ◼ ► you know it's a benevolent god like superiority that's a chip that's what I'm trying to say is that how you feel. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4111">TS</a>]
01:08:37 ◼ ► Yeah you know how to stay out of this is really the point of this wasn't to say that I have a cause [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4117">TS</a>]
01:08:46 ◼ ► but just the God of children I am a God I am not God I can drive a car. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4126">TS</a>]
01:08:54 ◼ ► Yeah yeah your god like powers are pretty pretty limited they are extreme I can only describe. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4134">TS</a>]
01:09:04 ◼ ► It's like what is that what is that old old Onion article that I really like I am the worst God ever filled onion study [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4144">TS</a>]
01:09:19 ◼ ► By the relatively large green capacities babies such as the one pictured here are so unintelligent that they are unable [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4159">TS</a>]
01:09:25 ◼ ► to distinguish colorful plastic squeak toys from food sources and goes on [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4165">TS</a>]
01:09:31 ◼ ► and on about all the things babies can't do I love the onion so good god like powers. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4171">TS</a>]
01:09:37 ◼ ► Guess what show I which is why companies wanting to get up on my lap. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4177">TS</a>]
01:09:41 ◼ ► Oh yeah you must feel super superior to a dog she doesn't even have linguistic capabilities. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4181">TS</a>]
01:09:46 ◼ ► I don't feel around pets it's only it's only other humans and it's children I feel if I don't look at the dogs [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4186">TS</a>]
01:09:52 ◼ ► and think I am almighty markets different dogs but if anybody views you as almighty It is surely that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4192">TS</a>]
01:10:00 ◼ ► Dogs the dogs probably do view you as a kind of god. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4200">TS</a>]
01:10:04 ◼ ► I doubt I doubt your nephew views you as a kind of God and he definitely doesn't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4204">TS</a>]
01:10:07 ◼ ► But do you think that God spin these do you think that I don't know how the god view you probably know favorably about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4207">TS</a>]
01:10:16 ◼ ► a guest. Yeah I think I think the dogs the dogs definitely view you as some kind of all powerful magic being stopped. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4216">TS</a>]
01:10:26 ◼ ► Stop feeding my god complex you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4226">TS</a>]
01:10:29 ◼ ► But so I guess the bottom line is I don't know I do not have this feeling around children I mostly just feel that most [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4229">TS</a>]
01:10:38 ◼ ► I do mean the occasional rare useful child and that is I'm always impressed then [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4238">TS</a>]
01:10:43 ◼ ► but it's you know most of the time is disappointing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4243">TS</a>]
01:10:46 ◼ ► What's an example of a useful job destines kids I would say destines oldest daughter in particular she's not a kid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4246">TS</a>]
01:10:52 ◼ ► she's like you know she can get chickens and stuff she's like oh yeah that's what I mean [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4252">TS</a>]
01:10:56 ◼ ► but it takes that long for them to get to be useful. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4256">TS</a>]
01:10:59 ◼ ► It's good when they're that out because then you can really start imparting knowledge and not ask you questions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4259">TS</a>]
01:11:05 ◼ ► and you cannot I think you think you're imparting more knowledge than you actually are. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4265">TS</a>]
01:11:10 ◼ ► But not sure how much how much you can actually funnel into their brains that lasts at all the last beyond the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4270">TS</a>]
01:11:17 ◼ ► conversation that you're actually not and I try I try. I'm sure I'm sure you do try. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4277">TS</a>]
01:11:23 ◼ ► Trying is not the question here and then if I feel like that's not working I just make a joke of it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4283">TS</a>]
01:11:27 ◼ ► and I start laughing and kid rejects I guess I guess I guess they do have a rope and he poo jokes around children. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4287">TS</a>]
01:11:35 ◼ ► Maybe I should try that always works I recommend. OK I'll keep that in mind next time around the child. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4295">TS</a>]
01:11:43 ◼ ► Today's sponsor is audible dot com the leading provider of spoken audio information and entertainment. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4303">TS</a>]
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01:12:03 ◼ ► Now anybody who listens to audio books has almost certainly heard this book [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4323">TS</a>]
01:12:06 ◼ ► but if it doesn't sound familiar to you if you've never listened to this this is a great place to start with audio [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4326">TS</a>]
01:12:12 ◼ ► If they're not something that you're into it is a perfect example of how the audio book can give you so much more than [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4332">TS</a>]
01:12:21 ◼ ► So Me Talk Pretty One Day is a sort of memoir by this guy David Sedaris [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4341">TS</a>]
01:12:25 ◼ ► and he's just talking about experiences in his life and he weave them into stories [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4345">TS</a>]
01:12:30 ◼ ► but it is the way he tells these stories that gives them all of their charm and all of their humor. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4350">TS</a>]
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01:13:20 ◼ ► and virtually every genre you'll find what you're looking for. So go check out Audible dot com slash hello internet. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4400">TS</a>]
01:13:28 ◼ ► We're going to talk about this podcast cold cereal. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4408">TS</a>]
01:13:32 ◼ ► Yes We're going talk about pod cast in our pod cast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4412">TS</a>]
01:13:35 ◼ ► but it's somebody else's podcast it's not our own pod cast on I says this is dangerous because then people will start [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4415">TS</a>]
01:13:41 ◼ ► listening to other podcasts and then what will that mean for us I think that's good for us. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4421">TS</a>]
01:13:46 ◼ ► I think people get sucked into the world of audio [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4426">TS</a>]
01:13:50 ◼ ► and you listen to a whole bunch of stuff I think people are audio people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4430">TS</a>]
01:13:54 ◼ ► and they listen to lots of things so I don't I don't think it's analogous. OK And we're so good I mean. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4434">TS</a>]
01:14:00 ◼ ► Obviously yeah yeah. Housekeeping about listen to to do the talking about. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4440">TS</a>]
01:14:05 ◼ ► Yeah they I mean by family for every new person who comes into the world of listening to podcasts that essentially is a [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4445">TS</a>]
01:14:11 ◼ ► new addition for us. Yes that's what cereal has done really is live in our audience. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4451">TS</a>]
01:14:17 ◼ ► Yeah yeah I like the sound of that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4457">TS</a>]
01:14:21 ◼ ► So do I this this podcast cereal has pain whatever you think of a has been a phenomenon it's like everyone's talking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4461">TS</a>]
01:14:28 ◼ ► about a spinning all right to be popular it got through the gray News bubble it up through the five [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4468">TS</a>]
01:14:34 ◼ ► or so as you have you listen to all of it twelve episodes if you listen to it Oh yes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4474">TS</a>]
01:14:38 ◼ ► So we didn't that we mentioned it offhandedly on the last pod cast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4478">TS</a>]
01:14:44 ◼ ► but which we should have properly set it for homework. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4484">TS</a>]
01:14:46 ◼ ► We didn't do that but I had just finished listening to cereal and I think actually the day we recorded that podcast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4486">TS</a>]
01:14:53 ◼ ► and I mentioned it to you you listened to the whole thing now right is that correct. I have I have. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4493">TS</a>]
01:14:58 ◼ ► Should we draw a line in the podcast and say From this moment on everyone. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4498">TS</a>]
01:15:02 ◼ ► Massive spoiler alert if you haven't listened. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4502">TS</a>]
01:15:05 ◼ ► You might want to pause our podcast now go listen to the twelve hours of cereal I think it is and then come back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4505">TS</a>]
01:15:13 ◼ ► and then you can listen to us talk about it because yes there are going to be spoilers ahead. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4513">TS</a>]
01:15:19 ◼ ► And you know how we feel about spoilers so we just want to warn you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4519">TS</a>]
01:15:22 ◼ ► Now obviously some people will not follow the advice and will just listen to us talk anyway. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4522">TS</a>]
01:15:28 ◼ ► I refuse to believe those people exist but they tell me they exist in the common. They seem to exist in abundance. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4528">TS</a>]
01:15:33 ◼ ► So for those people who aren't going to listen to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4533">TS</a>]
01:15:36 ◼ ► but are about to listen to us talk about it I guess we owe it to them to explain what this thing is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4536">TS</a>]
01:15:42 ◼ ► Yeah well I would say I would back up and say that I first heard about three I don't remember exactly when [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4542">TS</a>]
01:15:47 ◼ ► but it seemed like there were there were a few articles that were getting passed around on the Internet about how [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4547">TS</a>]
01:15:53 ◼ ► there's some kind of huge pod cast resurgence which is a strange thing to write about in the first place. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4553">TS</a>]
01:16:00 ◼ ► One cast went anywhere but what it really was there were a few pod cast that had had caught the public eye [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4560">TS</a>]
01:16:06 ◼ ► and cereal was one of them ended up becoming just a fad I think a phenomenon is fair enough to say it seemed like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4566">TS</a>]
01:16:16 ◼ ► and covered absolutely everywhere once it started going live I think was mentioned first on This American Life is where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4576">TS</a>]
01:16:22 ◼ ► they started. So it has been a big thing in the podcasting world. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4582">TS</a>]
01:16:27 ◼ ► Here's what happened fifteen years ago a high school guy from Baltimore was convicted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4587">TS</a>]
01:16:37 ◼ ► and imprisoned for murdering his recently ex-girlfriend who was also a student at the school. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4597">TS</a>]
01:16:43 ◼ ► Right and he's been in jail ever since. Now very recently this case this guy always protested his innocence. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4603">TS</a>]
01:16:53 ◼ ► Recently this case was brought to the attention of a reporter. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4613">TS</a>]
01:16:58 ◼ ► And she started investigating us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4618">TS</a>]
01:17:01 ◼ ► and you know raking over all the old recordings raking over the old trial was interviewing all the people who are now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4621">TS</a>]
01:17:10 ◼ ► fifteen years later to try and get an idea of whether or not this guy was guilty or not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4630">TS</a>]
01:17:16 ◼ ► She also interviews the guy himself in jail which is you know keep up and then say yes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4636">TS</a>]
01:17:22 ◼ ► So anyway so that's that's the set up. Now it's done in quite an interesting way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4642">TS</a>]
01:17:28 ◼ ► It's done as a serial a serialisation So it's told in quite a unique way over these twelve episodes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4648">TS</a>]
01:17:37 ◼ ► And it's not so much the story of what happened in the fall so that is unfolding [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4657">TS</a>]
01:17:41 ◼ ► but also the story is unfolding of this woman's investigation. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4661">TS</a>]
01:17:46 ◼ ► So this kind of these two threads going on you kind of you're kind of unwinding the crime fifteen years ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4666">TS</a>]
01:17:53 ◼ ► and at the same time you're unwinding this woman's investigation now so often jumping back to things that happen. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4673">TS</a>]
01:18:00 ◼ ► In the past and then it's things that are happening now in her investigation [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4680">TS</a>]
01:18:04 ◼ ► and it's just done in a very compelling way. It's very well produced. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4684">TS</a>]
01:18:09 ◼ ► It uses it uses the mix of Odeo and recordings in the old in the new sound [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4689">TS</a>]
01:18:15 ◼ ► and music very well which I'm sure we won't talk about now and it just makes for a really compelling story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4695">TS</a>]
01:18:21 ◼ ► and it has this this serialization nature to it that makes it quite addictive like chapters of a book you know I just [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4701">TS</a>]
01:18:28 ◼ ► want to know the next chapter. And very drawn out which is unusual for this kind of audio format in this way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4708">TS</a>]
01:18:36 ◼ ► So that's kind of in a nutshell in a small and show what's happening. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4716">TS</a>]
01:18:42 ◼ ► Have I missed anything really really key in describing what is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4722">TS</a>]
01:18:46 ◼ ► No no I think that is that is a fair way to describe it it is a current investigation by Sarah Kane who is who works [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4726">TS</a>]
01:18:53 ◼ ► She's not a criminal investigator [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4733">TS</a>]
01:18:55 ◼ ► or anything she is just a journalist of a murder that took place fifteen years ago now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4735">TS</a>]
01:19:00 ◼ ► Yeah and it is it is told in twelve parts I think ten twelve parts. Yeah. Each about an hour long. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4740">TS</a>]
01:19:06 ◼ ► Which is why very personal it's very personal to it's very much her story of her investigation she's she's not sort of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4746">TS</a>]
01:19:14 ◼ ► She's you know I think she would argue she's doing her best to be impartial but she's It is a very personal story. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4754">TS</a>]
01:19:21 ◼ ► It's sort of her story of how she's trying to unspoiled things and what she's learning [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4761">TS</a>]
01:19:27 ◼ ► and what she's thinking about about the case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4767">TS</a>]
01:19:30 ◼ ► So you listened to more recently [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4770">TS</a>]
01:19:32 ◼ ► but so you found overall you liked it very much with the very thing you thought it was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4772">TS</a>]
01:19:36 ◼ ► but I liked it very very very much for numerous reasons. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4776">TS</a>]
01:19:40 ◼ ► I tell you the best test for the fact that I liked it OK and that is I just couldn't get enough listening to him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4780">TS</a>]
01:19:48 ◼ ► and I was manufacturing excuses for this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4788">TS</a>]
01:19:51 ◼ ► and that I was like Oh I think I'll go for a big long walk this morning just so that I can put it in my ears [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4791">TS</a>]
01:19:57 ◼ ► and listen to another episode or I think I'll go and drive. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4797">TS</a>]
01:20:00 ◼ ► That shopping center that's far away because that too too long drives past. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4800">TS</a>]
01:20:05 ◼ ► It really took over my life I think I listen to it all in about two two and a half days or so. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4805">TS</a>]
01:20:11 ◼ ► Yeah that is a good sign that it is a good sign [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4811">TS</a>]
01:20:14 ◼ ► and an interesting thing which you may come back to as well I I was saying to my wife the whole time you will love this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4814">TS</a>]
01:20:19 ◼ ► you have to listen to it and she's like you know I'm sure I will but you know she wasn't listening to it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4819">TS</a>]
01:20:25 ◼ ► and then she had to go for a long drive so I said Put on your phone just listen to a new Dr [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4825">TS</a>]
01:20:30 ◼ ► and now she has become completely obsessed with it to the point where she will come home from work having driven home [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4830">TS</a>]
01:20:35 ◼ ► from work and say I've just got ten minutes to go do you mind if I just put on the stereo listen to me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4835">TS</a>]
01:20:40 ◼ ► and she's become completely obsessed with it as well and then yearly You are listening to it a second time through her. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4840">TS</a>]
01:20:46 ◼ ► I'm listening to bits of a second time [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4846">TS</a>]
01:20:48 ◼ ► but I think I think it's really important to listen to this with as few spoilers as possible so I'm doing a really good [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4848">TS</a>]
01:20:56 ◼ ► job of just passing showing no emotion and passing no comment as you distance to it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4856">TS</a>]
01:21:01 ◼ ► She asked me questions and things and I'm just kind of I'm just playing a straight back to it to use a quick analogy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4861">TS</a>]
01:21:07 ◼ ► Oh oh yes of course a straight back is the straight bat swim in a straight bat. Yes Yeah. When the streak in the wings. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4867">TS</a>]
01:21:19 ◼ ► Well as a first to weigh what never mind. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4879">TS</a>]
01:21:22 ◼ ► Come on then tell me what you thought about what your executive summary [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4882">TS</a>]
01:21:26 ◼ ► and I made reference on the last podcast too I took a kind of vacation for myself from Christmas until early January so [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4886">TS</a>]
01:21:35 ◼ ► strange when you work for yourself because you have to decide for yourself what a vacation is going to end [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4895">TS</a>]
01:21:39 ◼ ► and I ended up listening to cereal basically straight over the course of two days and I was just just verging out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4899">TS</a>]
01:21:49 ◼ ► and just just like I'm not doing anything at all today and I I had had this on my list to listen to a venture Lee [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4909">TS</a>]
01:21:57 ◼ ► and it crossed some threshold where I thought oh I'm going to give this a try. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4917">TS</a>]
01:22:00 ◼ ► I and I was into one episode is like well I have to listen to the next episode and I don't have to do anything today. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4920">TS</a>]
01:22:06 ◼ ► and then let me listen to the next one in the net so I think I listen to maybe five of the first day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4926">TS</a>]
01:22:11 ◼ ► and the rest the next day. So in a very very condensed VERY BACK TO BACK. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4931">TS</a>]
01:22:17 ◼ ► Time frame which like imagining you liked and so here is the thing you can out of a hat. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4937">TS</a>]
01:22:26 ◼ ► I would say in general I like cereal. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4946">TS</a>]
01:22:30 ◼ ► I liked what it was what it was aiming for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4950">TS</a>]
01:22:34 ◼ ► but I have to say that by day two I was listening to it more out of frustration [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4954">TS</a>]
01:22:42 ◼ ► and wanting to conclude this thing than out of genuine enjoyment I care [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4962">TS</a>]
01:22:46 ◼ ► but I thought OK I can appreciate that yeah I thought that the first maybe three or four episodes were excellent [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4966">TS</a>]
01:22:53 ◼ ► and it really drew me right in I thought boy this you know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4973">TS</a>]
01:22:57 ◼ ► This is a really interesting story like I'm curious to see what what happens to him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4977">TS</a>]
01:23:01 ◼ ► and like who ever made the theme song for cereal. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4981">TS</a>]
01:23:07 ◼ ► and they used audio really well in that where there's the automated voice from the Maryland Correctional Facility [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4987">TS</a>]
01:23:13 ◼ ► and it's put together in a in a very high production kind of way. I love the music I love music. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/4993">TS</a>]
01:23:20 ◼ ► But so here here was my frustration with this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5000">TS</a>]
01:23:22 ◼ ► and if you listen to it more recently so you may be able to correct me on some of these points [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5002">TS</a>]
01:23:26 ◼ ► but my frustration in this was they were trying to talk about what happened fifteen years ago. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5006">TS</a>]
01:23:34 ◼ ► and even in the very first episode at the very opening thing that Sarah Canuck starts with is a discussion of how well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5014">TS</a>]
01:23:42 ◼ ► could you remember a day that happened six weeks ago [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5022">TS</a>]
01:23:46 ◼ ► and she you know she takes random high school kids as an example and is asking them Oh where were you six weeks ago. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5026">TS</a>]
01:23:52 ◼ ► I like with anybody the answers are just sort of vague and people have to just speculate. The culling. Oh oh well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5032">TS</a>]
01:24:00 ◼ ► One school six weeks ago you know was it work or was it a how they can even remember and they're just wrong [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5040">TS</a>]
01:24:06 ◼ ► and she starts with this premise of how difficult it is to remember where you were because one of the central points to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5046">TS</a>]
01:24:14 ◼ ► this murder case is that siad himself basically said like he doesn't remember a lot of the details of the day that his [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5054">TS</a>]
01:24:23 ◼ ► ex-girlfriend got murdered because to him it was like it was just another day. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5063">TS</a>]
01:24:28 ◼ ► There wasn't anything from his perspective because he claimed his innocence. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5068">TS</a>]
01:24:32 ◼ ► Do you particularly remember about what happened then. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5072">TS</a>]
01:24:35 ◼ ► And so Sara caning is kind of bringing this up in the beginning as what I felt was a terribly valid point that you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5075">TS</a>]
01:24:44 ◼ ► can't remember clearly what you did. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5084">TS</a>]
01:24:46 ◼ ► I mean when when she started that in the show I thought I can't remember yesterday very well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5086">TS</a>]
01:24:51 ◼ ► If somebody asked what were you doing at four pm yesterday I would have to say something like I think I was at home in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5091">TS</a>]
01:24:58 ◼ ► my office in front of my computer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5098">TS</a>]
01:24:59 ◼ ► but that's really what I'm really doing there is pulling up like a probability curve of where was I. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5099">TS</a>]
01:25:05 ◼ ► Yeah you know it's a ninety five percent problem but I don't have any actual memory that at four four P.M. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5105">TS</a>]
01:25:10 ◼ ► Yesterday it was in my office. So you know six weeks ago might as well be twenty five years ago where were you. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5110">TS</a>]
01:25:16 ◼ ► You know certainly the unreliability of memory is a is a theme of the podcast and they say yes but this is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5116">TS</a>]
01:25:24 ◼ ► but this is where my frustrations grew. So this is her starting point. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5124">TS</a>]
01:25:28 ◼ ► In the first few episodes he's kind of laying down some of the facts of the case and building things up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5128">TS</a>]
01:25:33 ◼ ► but then as as as time goes on I felt that that more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5133">TS</a>]
01:25:37 ◼ ► and more of the episodes were could be summarized in some way as Sarah Cain Inc want people to remember the particulars [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5137">TS</a>]
01:25:45 ◼ ► of a day that happened fifteen years ago and she's trying she's interviewing people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5145">TS</a>]
01:25:51 ◼ ► and she wants to know what were you thinking at this time or what was going on at that time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5151">TS</a>]
01:25:55 ◼ ► And that's kind of where my frustration came in and they said like adults. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5155">TS</a>]
01:26:00 ◼ ► They say this is this is they were high school kids [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5160">TS</a>]
01:26:01 ◼ ► and now she's into using them as kind of grown ups ask Yeah I did on a particular day of the house. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5161">TS</a>]
01:26:07 ◼ ► Yes that's it that's exactly it's like she's interviewing a thirty year old woman about where she was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5167">TS</a>]
01:26:14 ◼ ► Now and I guess I thought I went back just today actually the new We're going to talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5174">TS</a>]
01:26:22 ◼ ► and I want to really listen to the opener because I thought if I mis remember this myself how she opened this story [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5182">TS</a>]
01:26:27 ◼ ► and I thought no no this was the case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5187">TS</a>]
01:26:30 ◼ ► She's really laying it thick at the beginning about how hard it is to remember stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5190">TS</a>]
01:26:35 ◼ ► But I felt like the rest of the show particularly after maybe the first three [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5195">TS</a>]
01:26:38 ◼ ► or four episodes it was like she completely did this and forgot about how hard it is to remember [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5198">TS</a>]
01:26:44 ◼ ► and she was she was annoyed with siad for not remembering anything about that day in particular. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5204">TS</a>]
01:26:50 ◼ ► And she's trying to trace down people and ask them about what they were doing on this day [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5210">TS</a>]
01:26:54 ◼ ► and I kept waiting for the episode where. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5214">TS</a>]
01:26:59 ◼ ► They you know she's a reporter why don't you talk to somebody about memories and how memories work. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5219">TS</a>]
01:27:05 ◼ ► But this never came up in the podcast. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5225">TS</a>]
01:27:08 ◼ ► And so I felt like a lot of I felt like a lot of the later episodes were exercises in futility where you know she's you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5228">TS</a>]
01:27:15 ◼ ► know you know there was there was one girl in particular who she was trying to track down who she wanted to interview [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5235">TS</a>]
01:27:21 ◼ ► and I felt like what's the point of asking this girl what happened fifteen years ago. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5241">TS</a>]
01:27:26 ◼ ► Anything she says doesn't even matter nobody can remember with any sort of detail no matter how confident they are in [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5246">TS</a>]
01:27:34 ◼ ► Fifteen year old memories are just are just so worthless [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5254">TS</a>]
01:27:37 ◼ ► and so that's what I kind of felt the last half of the pot the last half of the punk ass was was just this this futile [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5257">TS</a>]
01:27:45 ◼ ► attempts to reconstruct from people's minds the particulars of a day long lost to history. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5265">TS</a>]
01:27:52 ◼ ► I think it is a fair criticism to say that the pod cast probably did run out a stain. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5272">TS</a>]
01:28:00 ◼ ► And went a bit longer than it than ideally the content was worthy of that said I did think it was very good of a couple [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5280">TS</a>]
01:28:09 ◼ ► things you know we've already said a few of the things I think I've always had a problem with pod cast before we before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5289">TS</a>]
01:28:15 ◼ ► we didn't even start a podcast and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5295">TS</a>]
01:28:17 ◼ ► and I one of my main criticisms of podcasts was that there's this kind of frontier of people in there you know in their [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5297">TS</a>]
01:28:25 ◼ ► bedrooms like you and I doing stuff which I think is very interesting and valid [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5305">TS</a>]
01:28:29 ◼ ► but for radio I always thought radio just saw pod casting as a chance to revision the stuff they were already [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5309">TS</a>]
01:28:37 ◼ ► transmitting and write a second bite of the cherry and I was very cynical about that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5317">TS</a>]
01:28:42 ◼ ► Yeah and this is one of the first times I feel like I've heard a professional professional radio people. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5322">TS</a>]
01:28:50 ◼ ► Making something that almost wouldn't work on radio like I know this was broadcast on radio [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5330">TS</a>]
01:28:56 ◼ ► but it's not suited to radio because you have to have listen to the one before [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5336">TS</a>]
01:29:00 ◼ ► and the lengths vary as well which I was really aware of that's very internet either. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5340">TS</a>]
01:29:06 ◼ ► Yeah it doesn't it doesn't fit in a particular class slot so it was kind of these professional cruft [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5346">TS</a>]
01:29:13 ◼ ► or audio people finally transitioning to make something for podcasting in much the same way that you could look at each [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5353">TS</a>]
01:29:20 ◼ ► even it's just like clips of T.V. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5360">TS</a>]
01:29:22 ◼ ► Shows and then there are people who are making stuff that is bespoke so you could only work on your bike [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5362">TS</a>]
01:29:28 ◼ ► and this is this is one of the I know it I know it happens [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5368">TS</a>]
01:29:32 ◼ ► but this is the first time I've come across it where I thought that's it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5372">TS</a>]
01:29:36 ◼ ► If radio people want to break into this kind of ordinary thing this is how they do it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5376">TS</a>]
01:29:41 ◼ ► Yeah they did it she did it they did everything right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5381">TS</a>]
01:29:45 ◼ ► And yes it read out a statement there are a few criticisms of it that we can talk about [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5385">TS</a>]
01:29:48 ◼ ► but overall that that was the thing that impressed me most was yes you if you figure that this is this is what to do. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5388">TS</a>]
01:29:57 ◼ ► You know give us a mate to give us some debt. Go go in detail. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5397">TS</a>]
01:30:03 ◼ ► Now you have you know did everything right in that respect I think that that's a good point that I hadn't considered [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5403">TS</a>]
01:30:07 ◼ ► and just thinking through my own pod cast was one of the ones which I sometimes listen to is the is the Freakonomics [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5407">TS</a>]
01:30:14 ◼ ► one and if you listen to Freakonomics and I sum to a couple of times it never quite grabs me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5414">TS</a>]
01:30:18 ◼ ► but I don't know if it is the case or not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5418">TS</a>]
01:30:20 ◼ ► but that one really feels like this is made to fit some time slot on some radio program somewhere. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5420">TS</a>]
01:30:27 ◼ ► Yeah and then we have also just put it on the Internet and there's nothing wrong with that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5427">TS</a>]
01:30:31 ◼ ► but some something about it really feels like almost like it's a television show that we have just put on You Tube [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5431">TS</a>]
01:30:37 ◼ ► where they're like oh why are there these fade fade outs like on T.V. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5437">TS</a>]
01:30:41 ◼ ► Shows when they try to put them on the Internet is like oh yes because that's where the commercials used to go there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5441">TS</a>]
01:30:46 ◼ ► but now it does now is just an awkward scene transition [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5446">TS</a>]
01:30:48 ◼ ► or so baby safe it was a lot like that made my voice as a bit of a sausage factory where that is chopping up all the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5448">TS</a>]
01:30:54 ◼ ► and splattering all over the Internet as podcasts where you felt like it's fair that this was made for me on my walk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5454">TS</a>]
01:31:02 ◼ ► and I definitely grew frustrated with it towards the end. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5462">TS</a>]
01:31:07 ◼ ► I grew frustrated with sacking in particular as it stretched on I remember there was something she was doing was like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5467">TS</a>]
01:31:12 ◼ ► What are you what are you doing. I don't understand what point you're trying to make it did become a bit. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5472">TS</a>]
01:31:17 ◼ ► I don't agree with you that she should have gone and spoken to memory experts [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5477">TS</a>]
01:31:20 ◼ ► and stuff because then I think it would have all become a bit where they are in a bit. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5480">TS</a>]
01:31:24 ◼ ► The thing I liked about it was that I was so lost in the in the case and the people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5484">TS</a>]
01:31:28 ◼ ► and like I was so absorbed by the characters and I think if she stepped out too many times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5488">TS</a>]
01:31:34 ◼ ► and started talking to people who had nothing to do with it too many times she didn't do that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5494">TS</a>]
01:31:38 ◼ ► but if she did it too many times it would have it would have lost me so I don't agree that she should have done that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5498">TS</a>]
01:31:44 ◼ ► but I do agree it was too long and she did it started becoming a bit repetitive. A couple of things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5504">TS</a>]
01:31:51 ◼ ► The stuff before I started that I was cynical about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5511">TS</a>]
01:31:54 ◼ ► I was very cynical about her being her story and I was a bit worried that she was going to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5514">TS</a>]
01:32:00 ◼ ► All of that may be had and she did she did make it very much about her. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5520">TS</a>]
01:32:04 ◼ ► Sarah Kane and she did make it her story and I thought that would annoy me [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5524">TS</a>]
01:32:09 ◼ ► and I have to say it didn't much to my surprise I felt like I went on the journey with her. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5529">TS</a>]
01:32:15 ◼ ► The other thing that I thought would happen was there would be endless endless periods of things I couldn't follow it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5535">TS</a>]
01:32:24 ◼ ► like you know too many people like Bill called Bill called Sally at four thirty P.M. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5544">TS</a>]
01:32:30 ◼ ► and Then John called Georgia and I would be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5550">TS</a>]
01:32:33 ◼ ► and I wouldn't be able to hold all in my head it would become too bogged down by details [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5553">TS</a>]
01:32:39 ◼ ► and that did start to happen in a couple of episodes later on there were whole you know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5559">TS</a>]
01:32:43 ◼ ► but what about the three fifteen KOTOR silence I went on like our God who said again I'm home [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5563">TS</a>]
01:32:49 ◼ ► and I have to say well when was a bit of that. Yeah the part in particular which was the. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5569">TS</a>]
01:32:56 ◼ ► That these are called the three fifteen called so this girl is clean I think it was MacGregor's the letter of the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5576">TS</a>]
01:33:02 ◼ ► alibis this was the notion in the ship. Yeah sorry. Yeah that's what it was. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5582">TS</a>]
01:33:07 ◼ ► It's funny how these people are like become like so I say because I listen to it more recently like these names [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5587">TS</a>]
01:33:13 ◼ ► Yeah yeah yeah you're right about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5593">TS</a>]
01:33:15 ◼ ► but I definitely had a case where again some somewhere around three quarters of the way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5595">TS</a>]
01:33:21 ◼ ► and I realized I was kind of lost about like what is the importance of this phone call and it's specially [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5601">TS</a>]
01:33:26 ◼ ► when I'm listening to this all in a row I know I am not good with this kind of stuff. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5606">TS</a>]
01:33:32 ◼ ► Just in general of keeping people straight and so I did get lost [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5612">TS</a>]
01:33:37 ◼ ► but I'm aware that sometimes a bit of a difficulty for me is keeping track of of the people that they're all [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5617">TS</a>]
01:33:43 ◼ ► theoretical people in from the perspective of this radio program [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5623">TS</a>]
01:33:47 ◼ ► and so it's like aside from the main ones obviously you kind of have Jay the key witness at the trial a new girlfriend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5627">TS</a>]
01:33:54 ◼ ► and a couple other friends and there's a few people but then I did start getting a bit lost. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5634">TS</a>]
01:34:00 ◼ ► About three fourths of the way through. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5640">TS</a>]
01:34:02 ◼ ► This is something else or like this I don't know if you were able to file the cell tower thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5642">TS</a>]
01:34:06 ◼ ► but that became a bit of a mess to me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5646">TS</a>]
01:34:09 ◼ ► I thought that I don't know if that was me or for that episode but I felt like this is not explained very well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5649">TS</a>]
01:34:17 ◼ ► I don't understand what's going on with this with all the talk about his phone where could he have possibly been what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5657">TS</a>]
01:34:22 ◼ ► cell phone towers was his phone pinging [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5662">TS</a>]
01:34:24 ◼ ► and all the rest as I thought I did think it got a bit a bit lost in the in the weeds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5664">TS</a>]
01:34:29 ◼ ► but big picture started bio last name I think we both seem to agree on that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5669">TS</a>]
01:34:34 ◼ ► Yeah you especially and also not you know spoiler spoiler spoiler. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5674">TS</a>]
01:34:38 ◼ ► To me it lacked a big payoff at the end it did it did peter out. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5678">TS</a>]
01:34:43 ◼ ► I kind of thought maybe she was holding something massive back [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5683">TS</a>]
01:34:47 ◼ ► and was going to knock my socks off at the end which was half the reason I kept listening. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5687">TS</a>]
01:34:51 ◼ ► His chief is going to kill me at the end where she got what she got and it ended well but it didn't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5691">TS</a>]
01:34:58 ◼ ► I thought it was her wrist sickly impotent ending. Yeah just nothing just absolutely nothing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5698">TS</a>]
01:35:05 ◼ ► I was thinking about there are many different ways you know if you don't need an episode a final episode where it's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5705">TS</a>]
01:35:10 ◼ ► like we've definitely convicted him or Oh and by the way you know we've set him free. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5710">TS</a>]
01:35:18 ◼ ► but by her her final episode was just so shoulder shrug you know the thing that frustrated me about it is let me look [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5718">TS</a>]
01:35:26 ◼ ► it up the exact. If the final episode was called what we now hear and to bring this back to the memory kind of thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5726">TS</a>]
01:35:39 ◼ ► I was kind of hoping that this final episode would do the thing where like OK we've been talking to all of these people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5739">TS</a>]
01:35:46 ◼ ► and all of these witnesses but what are the actual facts of the case. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5746">TS</a>]
01:35:52 ◼ ► And even that I felt like the final episode didn't do a good job of summing things up and it ended on such. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5752">TS</a>]
01:36:00 ◼ ► Such a wishy washy ending it was I found it very frustrating and strange. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5760">TS</a>]
01:36:04 ◼ ► I looked into some of the production and one of the things that I wonder is they had the first few episodes done yet [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5764">TS</a>]
01:36:11 ◼ ► and started broadcasting and then they kept going. Well that's what we did. Yeah that's that's what we did. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5771">TS</a>]
01:36:17 ◼ ► I totally agree with that. I wonder if that affected the production. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5777">TS</a>]
01:36:24 ◼ ► I wonder if if something like I would be really curious to know what episode is the first episode they did after it had [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5784">TS</a>]
01:36:33 ◼ ► I think they are smart though I think that allows them probably to shake a few trays loose you know having the stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5793">TS</a>]
01:36:39 ◼ ► It enabled them to then stop approaching people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5799">TS</a>]
01:36:42 ◼ ► and have people approach them as I think that was technically very smart to do a few that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5802">TS</a>]
01:36:46 ◼ ► when no one knows about it because. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5806">TS</a>]
01:36:48 ◼ ► Because then you can get people to talk without realizing they're going to be famous. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5808">TS</a>]
01:36:52 ◼ ► And then once they're all famous you can you can get the people in a different context. That's that's smart journalism. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5812">TS</a>]
01:37:00 ◼ ► I almost certainly would have recommended they do the same thing if I was in charge of this if I was the producer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5820">TS</a>]
01:37:04 ◼ ► and say look let's let's get a few ahead of time and work it out [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5824">TS</a>]
01:37:08 ◼ ► but I just wonder if in this particular case because it became such a phenomenon that that that negatively affected [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5828">TS</a>]
01:37:15 ◼ ► that it it didn't just become oh there's this great podcast called cereal. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5835">TS</a>]
01:37:20 ◼ ► It became the central pod cast in a whole news narrative about this is the most popular podcast that has ever been made [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5840">TS</a>]
01:37:28 ◼ ► and then brought into this this story about pod cast a really popular and everybody should go listen to cereal. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5848">TS</a>]
01:37:34 ◼ ► I wonder if that was just if that was too much attention and that that affected it in a negative way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5854">TS</a>]
01:37:41 ◼ ► Yeah well I mean yeah maybe it was too big [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5861">TS</a>]
01:37:45 ◼ ► but I don't I don't I think I don't I I don't think I think it helped them more than it hurt them. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5865">TS</a>]
01:37:51 ◼ ► And interesting story that came into my head when you were talking about memory [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5871">TS</a>]
01:37:55 ◼ ► and maps on to the podcast in a funny way. I mentioned that my wife is coming home and. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5875">TS</a>]
01:38:00 ◼ ► Listening to a section and she put a section on in the dining room. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5880">TS</a>]
01:38:03 ◼ ► I was eighteen and I was listening to it obviously for the second time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5883">TS</a>]
01:38:08 ◼ ► And as as I was playing I was I vividly remember to where I was when I listened to it like a week before the closing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5888">TS</a>]
01:38:15 ◼ ► Oh you know I was listening to this part at the bottom of the hill near our house as I was driving home [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5895">TS</a>]
01:38:20 ◼ ► and driving the car up towards the house. It was burned in my memory I remember everything about it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5900">TS</a>]
01:38:25 ◼ ► Holding the steering wheel hearing everything and then we listened a bit more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5905">TS</a>]
01:38:29 ◼ ► and about five ten minutes later I was like oh yes now I remember this because this was just as I was approaching the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5909">TS</a>]
01:38:35 ◼ ► house like pulling up to the house [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5915">TS</a>]
01:38:37 ◼ ► and not finding a parking space clear as clear as day this memory that was really really vivid. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5917">TS</a>]
01:38:44 ◼ ► But then it suddenly occurred to me the pop culture has been going for about ten minutes [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5924">TS</a>]
01:38:48 ◼ ► and that drive is is like thirty seconds right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5928">TS</a>]
01:38:51 ◼ ► How can this be right and I was thinking what's gone wrong what's gone wrong and I was thinking and thinking [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5931">TS</a>]
01:38:56 ◼ ► and eventually after racking my brains it suddenly occurred to me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5936">TS</a>]
01:39:00 ◼ ► No I was walking home that day and I was actually walking up the hill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5940">TS</a>]
01:39:03 ◼ ► and then that's why I was ten minutes because I then walked to the straight and was walking up to the house [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5943">TS</a>]
01:39:08 ◼ ► and it was just it was funny that a pod cast so much of that memory gave me such a surprise showing me how my memory is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5948">TS</a>]
01:39:14 ◼ ► so unbelievably unreliable and I was sworn blue if you'd asked me that I was in the car listening to you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5954">TS</a>]
01:39:20 ◼ ► and suddenly you know it wasn't you I was walking my memory was completely wrong. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5960">TS</a>]
01:39:26 ◼ ► It's a silly story but none of it and I see the point. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5966">TS</a>]
01:39:30 ◼ ► It does tells exactly into my kind of broader thoughts about this which which is a similar thing is like OK So Cain is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5970">TS</a>]
01:39:39 ◼ ► trying to reconstruct memories from from fifteen years ago. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5979">TS</a>]
01:39:42 ◼ ► But they we know why I wanted her to talk so much to a memory expert because she did have someone just have a couple of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5982">TS</a>]
01:39:50 ◼ ► experts who came into the show and it's like we just we know so much about how how frail human memory is [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/5990">TS</a>]
01:40:00 ◼ ► How easily influence a ball the memory is and this is something people just are just aren't aware of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6000">TS</a>]
01:40:08 ◼ ► but how how trivially simple it is to not even on purpose but to put false memories in people's heads. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6008">TS</a>]
01:40:16 ◼ ► And this whole case about whether [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6016">TS</a>]
01:40:19 ◼ ► or not this guy was able to kill his girlfriend I felt like the whole thing was just framed in this bizarre way [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6019">TS</a>]
01:40:27 ◼ ► and I don't know I thought there was there was like there was a more interesting story maybe to be told that did touch [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6027">TS</a>]
01:40:34 ◼ ► on some parts of the criminal justice system in general because it felt like OK we're supposed to have the presumption [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6034">TS</a>]
01:40:42 ◼ ► And like the real the real nail in this guy's coffin is eyewitness testimony from one guy who says he saw a guy called [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6042">TS</a>]
01:40:52 ◼ ► J. Who said he saw siad he didn't see him commit the murder but he saw the body. Later is what he said. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6052">TS</a>]
01:40:58 ◼ ► He showed him the body in the truck right his car he showed in the body in the trunk of his car which is just kind of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6058">TS</a>]
01:41:04 ◼ ► crazy I guess. Let me back it up one level which is that I could never be on a jury for very many reasons. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6064">TS</a>]
01:41:11 ◼ ► Well one of which is I made the whole video about net net [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6071">TS</a>]
01:41:15 ◼ ► and a trolley I made that whole video about jury nullification and so on that is the probably make a video [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6075">TS</a>]
01:41:23 ◼ ► and you forget what was in your own video so I would have to go back and watch my video. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6083">TS</a>]
01:41:26 ◼ ► But there is a particular question the lawyers ask which is something to the gist of would you make a verdict. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6086">TS</a>]
01:41:32 ◼ ► Would you make a decision in this case based on information [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6092">TS</a>]
01:41:35 ◼ ► or based on something outside of the law which is their sneaky way of trying to ask about jury nullification [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6095">TS</a>]
01:41:40 ◼ ► and I'd have to say yes I would do that. So I believe in jury nullification. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6100">TS</a>]
01:41:44 ◼ ► But secondly the reason why I would never be on a jury is I could never convict anyone of a crime based on eyewitness [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6104">TS</a>]
01:41:52 ◼ ► testimony as a as a major factor. I feel like we know how how terrible eyewitness. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6112">TS</a>]
01:42:00 ◼ ► Testimony is if I was if I was told to go you're going to be on this jury. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6120">TS</a>]
01:42:03 ◼ ► OK Well I'm basically going to disregard everything that any human says if you just show me what the physical evidence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6123">TS</a>]
01:42:11 ◼ ► is and will make a decision based on that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6131">TS</a>]
01:42:14 ◼ ► But but things that people say it counts for nothing in my mind right it's all just words right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6134">TS</a>]
01:42:22 ◼ ► but like if you showed me a dead body in the in the back of a car I'm I don't remember what you're wearing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6142">TS</a>]
01:42:30 ◼ ► or what time it happened or exactly what we said [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6150">TS</a>]
01:42:33 ◼ ► but I would remember that see cheapie gray showed me a dead body in the back of it OK. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6153">TS</a>]
01:42:39 ◼ ► But you're doing you're doing something different here you are you are starting from the presumption that you are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6159">TS</a>]
01:42:45 ◼ ► seeing something. I'm saying instead that like I Q's I say I saw Brady Haran kill someone. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6165">TS</a>]
01:42:55 ◼ ► Right and now you are on trial for murder. And the key witness in that is me and I'm saying I thought you could. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6175">TS</a>]
01:43:06 ◼ ► It doesn't because we know people just say things that aren't aren't true [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6186">TS</a>]
01:43:11 ◼ ► or that they don't know that they don't even know which are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6191">TS</a>]
01:43:13 ◼ ► and this is one of the things that I just there's a difference between a willful lie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6193">TS</a>]
01:43:17 ◼ ► and a hazy recollection as well I'm sorry [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6197">TS</a>]
01:43:20 ◼ ► but yeah if this guy if this witness guy who saw the body in the back of the car was trying to frame this guy [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6200">TS</a>]
01:43:28 ◼ ► or was covering for someone else a lie that he's lying. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6208">TS</a>]
01:43:31 ◼ ► OK that is a that is a judgment and a decision to be made but I think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6211">TS</a>]
01:43:37 ◼ ► when you start saying oh wait this happened what time did it happen and things like that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6217">TS</a>]
01:43:41 ◼ ► I think that's a bit unfair sometimes to pick a memory apart if the core truth to it is true or like me remembering [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6221">TS</a>]
01:43:50 ◼ ► when I was listening to the podcast going up the hill like the fundamental truth is I listened to the podcast. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6230">TS</a>]
01:43:56 ◼ ► Where exactly where I was sitting exactly what. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6236">TS</a>]
01:44:00 ◼ ► Time I was here and there is details I got wrong but the Colonel at the core of history and like yes people lie [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6240">TS</a>]
01:44:10 ◼ ► and you can't just rely on the system only [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6250">TS</a>]
01:44:13 ◼ ► but I think sometimes disregarding eyewitness testimony because of trivial details being wrong is a little unfair. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6253">TS</a>]
01:44:22 ◼ ► But my counter to this is that we used to burn people for being which is based on eyewitness testimony. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6262">TS</a>]
01:44:31 ◼ ► You'll have to forgive me if I don't find eyewitness testimony terribly convincing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6271">TS</a>]
01:44:35 ◼ ► Well not that that's as I said that's different that's because the person lied and that's why we don't rely on it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6275">TS</a>]
01:44:44 ◼ ► but here's what I feel like the fundamental thing here is the internal state of somebody else's mind is unknowable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6284">TS</a>]
01:44:52 ◼ ► when I talk to people about memory you're coming at it from the same position that many people do which is that they think [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6292">TS</a>]
01:44:58 ◼ ► about their own memories in their own head [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6298">TS</a>]
01:45:00 ◼ ► and I feel like that you can't you can't do that you have to think about it in terms of evaluating what somebody else [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6300">TS</a>]
01:45:07 ◼ ► is saying. And you can't do the same thing you don't know the internal state of that person's mind. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6307">TS</a>]
01:45:15 ◼ ► You don't know whether they're intentionally lying or whether they don't even know that they're lying. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6315">TS</a>]
01:45:20 ◼ ► I mean one of the things that I did think was relatively good about Syria was they did they did kind of point out a lot [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6320">TS</a>]
01:45:26 ◼ ► I wish they had done more of it but they did point out that like the whole system that surrounds this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6326">TS</a>]
01:45:32 ◼ ► And so they talked about the main witness Jaye [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6332">TS</a>]
01:45:35 ◼ ► and how before the police officially interview him which is the interview they actually record they do something like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6335">TS</a>]
01:45:43 ◼ ► an unofficial pre interview that was three hours long that they don't record where they're talking to him [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6343">TS</a>]
01:45:52 ◼ ► and then they do the the real interview. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6352">TS</a>]
01:45:55 ◼ ► And there's been just a lot of studies on this how showing like this is that this is the. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6355">TS</a>]
01:46:00 ◼ ► A prime case for like weird false memory things happen where you keep talking to somebody. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6360">TS</a>]
01:46:06 ◼ ► It's a high stress high pressure situation and people in that situation want to help the authority figures [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6366">TS</a>]
01:46:15 ◼ ► and even if they don't mean to they start manufacturing more [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6375">TS</a>]
01:46:19 ◼ ► and more details in their mind to match up whatever it is the police I mean and that's [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6379">TS</a>]
01:46:24 ◼ ► and that you know this was just there was a lot with the phone calls explaining when phone calls were made. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6384">TS</a>]
01:46:29 ◼ ► I still come back to the body in the trunk of a car and I don't think that there is a complete lie or I was not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6389">TS</a>]
01:46:40 ◼ ► and I don't think there is I don't think they I don't think he didn't see the body [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6400">TS</a>]
01:46:45 ◼ ► and then the police jogged his memory or told him can you just say it for us. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6405">TS</a>]
01:46:50 ◼ ► He either has decided to tell this fundamental lie to get this guy in trouble in big trouble or he hasn't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6410">TS</a>]
01:47:00 ◼ ► No but hold on and on and let's just let's just take that for a moment. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6420">TS</a>]
01:47:03 ◼ ► Right it was just the eye that he's chosen to lie or he's not. Yes. That isn't that is fundamentally unknowable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6423">TS</a>]
01:47:12 ◼ ► You we don't have machines yet that can pry into his brain and that's why we have a jury trial because someone had. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6432">TS</a>]
01:47:18 ◼ ► Because until unless it was videotaped unless God is sitting there knowing everything that's how we have to decide [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6438">TS</a>]
01:47:26 ◼ ► things into everything in the universe is recorded everything is known. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6446">TS</a>]
01:47:31 ◼ ► We have people have to weigh have to listen to the stories listen and weigh up the evidence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6451">TS</a>]
01:47:36 ◼ ► and make it of course it's of course it's unknowable. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6456">TS</a>]
01:47:40 ◼ ► No one knows but a decision has to be made we can't just let every murder go every murder that's not videotaped. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6460">TS</a>]
01:47:49 ◼ ► My my view on it is this if you were move all the eyewitness testimony is the physical evidence still compelling [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6469">TS</a>]
01:47:57 ◼ ► and I think that is that should be. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6477">TS</a>]
01:48:00 ◼ ► We the bar especially in things like murder cases is totally removed Jay is there still convincing physical evidence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6480">TS</a>]
01:48:07 ◼ ► that that somebody or that this guy that this guy killed his ex-girlfriend. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6487">TS</a>]
01:48:10 ◼ ► If he answer that question is No I would I could never possibly convict someone I wouldn't care how much eyewitness [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6490">TS</a>]
01:48:17 ◼ ► testimony there was. OK I just think I think humans are just more unreliable in their memory than they think they are. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6497">TS</a>]
01:48:26 ◼ ► Even for huge huge events like this. I mean this is a terrible this is a terrible example. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6506">TS</a>]
01:48:34 ◼ ► But I will bring up people who believe they have been abducted by aliens. Right. Do you think those people are lying. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6514">TS</a>]
01:48:47 ◼ ► Sometimes other times they could it could be sort of mental illness and so other things going on not understand [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6527">TS</a>]
01:48:56 ◼ ► but I think some of them align. Yes some of them are lying but here's the thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6536">TS</a>]
01:49:01 ◼ ► I've met people who think they have been abducted by aliens. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6541">TS</a>]
01:49:04 ◼ ► Yeah people I would say are not they're not homeless people on the streets with tinfoil on their heads. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6544">TS</a>]
01:49:12 ◼ ► They're normal functioning members of society that I don't think they're mentally ill [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6552">TS</a>]
01:49:17 ◼ ► and I don't think they think they're lying but they have some memory that they were abducted by aliens. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6557">TS</a>]
01:49:24 ◼ ► but this guy in jail in Maryland hasn't gone to jail because someone saying they were abducted by aliens you know I know [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6564">TS</a>]
01:49:31 ◼ ► I know you my central point here is you're acting like it's out of the realm of possibility that someone could [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6571">TS</a>]
01:49:37 ◼ ► fabricate having seen a dead body in a trunk when the display like an invented memory. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6577">TS</a>]
01:49:42 ◼ ► There are sane people who think they have a right they have flown into outer space and been poked and prodded [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6582">TS</a>]
01:49:49 ◼ ► and then deposited back on Earth the impressive thing about Jay's invented memory then is he also knew exactly where [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6589">TS</a>]
01:49:55 ◼ ► the murder victim's car was in a really obscure place. So yes I like it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6595">TS</a>]
01:50:00 ◼ ► This is this is the question right was that invented as well or I mean the police didn't know where that was [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6600">TS</a>]
01:50:04 ◼ ► and then he said and this is where the car is and I went to this obscure place [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6604">TS</a>]
01:50:08 ◼ ► and the car was so this this to me now gets back into like is that physical evidence that that is kind of what I wanted [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6608">TS</a>]
01:50:16 ◼ ► I wanted like the what we know episode to more clearly sum up [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6616">TS</a>]
01:50:20 ◼ ► and I feel like I would need to like if I was on the jury I would want to look through those kinds of those kinds of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6620">TS</a>]
01:50:29 ◼ ► and if someone was able to relay information that they could not possibly have known that they could not possibly have [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6629">TS</a>]
01:50:34 ◼ ► been communicated to them I would count that as a kind of physical evidence. I mean a lot. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6634">TS</a>]
01:50:39 ◼ ► Stachel evidence is important and I don't know because I was in there fifteen years ago and you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6639">TS</a>]
01:50:44 ◼ ► and I just pick up a nutty to listen to a podcast. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6644">TS</a>]
01:50:47 ◼ ► Let's not let's not forget that this reporter also wasn't there six ten years ago and she's very emotionally involved. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6647">TS</a>]
01:50:55 ◼ ► And this jury was very quick to convict this guy. And they and they and they were in the trial. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6655">TS</a>]
01:51:02 ◼ ► And they don't have a whole lot of doubt [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6662">TS</a>]
01:51:04 ◼ ► and you know there are there are a lot of people expressing doubt who are involved actually in the trial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6664">TS</a>]
01:51:12 ◼ ► and the case other than people who need to Skyline and have emotional attachments [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6672">TS</a>]
01:51:16 ◼ ► and that actually counts it in me deciding whether or not I happen to think this guy is guilty [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6676">TS</a>]
01:51:22 ◼ ► or not which is completely irrelevant to anything because I'm on the other there's not [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6682">TS</a>]
01:51:25 ◼ ► but that's not going to involve in making my own little decision in my head which is what the game of this whole serial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6685">TS</a>]
01:51:31 ◼ ► thing is that counts that counts for something. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6691">TS</a>]
01:51:34 ◼ ► The fact that the people in the room had no doubt and they saw the testimony and they were in the room [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6694">TS</a>]
01:51:42 ◼ ► and they made a judgment call about the witnesses and that does count for something [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6702">TS</a>]
01:51:47 ◼ ► and I I completely hear what you're saying about memory and I understand. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6707">TS</a>]
01:51:52 ◼ ► But I've actually spent a lot of time in court. I've I've sat through murder trials. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6712">TS</a>]
01:52:00 ◼ ► I've sat through some breaks I think murder trials and some very boring metros for my work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6720">TS</a>]
01:52:04 ◼ ► and it is a completely different experience and I must say that this pod cast was the closest I've seen [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6724">TS</a>]
01:52:13 ◼ ► or heard to conveying what a real murder trial is like a less interesting to hear but it's still quite a while. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6733">TS</a>]
01:52:23 ◼ ► Yeah it can still be super boring. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6743">TS</a>]
01:52:25 ◼ ► I mean there was one episode where she did try to point out how boring huge sections of a trial are actually are that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6745">TS</a>]
01:52:37 ◼ ► Part of my frustrations are just I think that the whole the whole Again there are many times when I when I'm watching [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6757">TS</a>]
01:52:42 ◼ ► or listening to some piece of media and I cannot help but think of how I would want this thing to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6762">TS</a>]
01:52:47 ◼ ► or how I would want the thing to be different [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6767">TS</a>]
01:52:49 ◼ ► and because it started to go downhill I started to find myself thinking more and more about that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6769">TS</a>]
01:52:55 ◼ ► and I kind of wanted it to be some other things. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6775">TS</a>]
01:52:58 ◼ ► You sound very one thing this is like the head discussion all over again. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6778">TS</a>]
01:53:02 ◼ ► I think something started away that excited you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6782">TS</a>]
01:53:05 ◼ ► and because it didn't play the way you want to play you sometimes got a bit harsh but. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6785">TS</a>]
01:53:09 ◼ ► No I well I do think I think this should have been six episodes not twelve episodes I think I think it could have been [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6789">TS</a>]
01:53:16 ◼ ► a really amazing thing it's six episodes with the exact same stuff right just you know you could do a super cut of this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6796">TS</a>]
01:53:22 ◼ ► and take the twelve episodes get it down to six [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6802">TS</a>]
01:53:26 ◼ ► and I think you could have some of that pretty amazing without without adding all the kinds of stuff that I would want [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6806">TS</a>]
01:53:31 ◼ ► and if I was in charge of this which I was not you know there was something about the length of the journey that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6811">TS</a>]
01:53:36 ◼ ► appealed to me and I kind of agree with you but I think maybe if you're cutting too hard [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6816">TS</a>]
01:53:43 ◼ ► and there was something about the pace one of the strengths of this podcast was the pacing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6823">TS</a>]
01:53:50 ◼ ► and I think if he became too snappy into C.D.P. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6830">TS</a>]
01:53:54 ◼ ► Cry it out and that it would equal a really quick and really excellent I think it would lose some of that. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6834">TS</a>]
01:54:00 ◼ ► During this I don't know going to call six hours snappy six hours versus twelve out there I just I think I think all of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6840">TS</a>]
01:54:11 ◼ ► a veteran at a slow game content wise I don't I there was there was something about the pacing that came to me say so I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6851">TS</a>]
01:54:20 ◼ ► don't I don't buy a grape or maybe era folk and can keep harping on the thing about I witnessed us [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6860">TS</a>]
01:54:25 ◼ ► and I don't think so. OK Here we go. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6865">TS</a>]
01:54:27 ◼ ► So I was going to look at some things about the Innocence Project which I think was actually the group that I can work [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6867">TS</a>]
01:54:35 ◼ ► with in this show didn't she. Yes but just on a quick summary from them here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6875">TS</a>]
01:54:39 ◼ ► So the Innocence Project basically they try to go back in for cases similar to this where there may be D.N.A. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6879">TS</a>]
01:54:45 ◼ ► Evidence that can exist in a murder case if it can be tested now they want to test it because fifteen years ago you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6885">TS</a>]
01:54:52 ◼ ► couldn't it was not as prevalent as it is now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6892">TS</a>]
01:54:55 ◼ ► Yet though the truck they're trying to free people who have been falsely imprisoned [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6895">TS</a>]
01:54:58 ◼ ► and in the United States they have freed three hundred plus people at this point based on D.N.A. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6898">TS</a>]
01:55:04 ◼ ► Evidence physical evidence that exonerated them from not like it couldn't possibly have been you you know we have some [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6904">TS</a>]
01:55:11 ◼ ► other unknown person's blood all over the victim kind of thing. Yes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6911">TS</a>]
01:55:16 ◼ ► So the most common reason for a false conviction is unreliable eyewitness testimony that that the jury used. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6916">TS</a>]
01:55:27 ◼ ► This is for seventy five percent of wrongful convictions according to the Innocence Project. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6927">TS</a>]
01:55:33 ◼ ► So seventy five percent of the people who by their measure were wrongfully convicted were done so based on eyewitness [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6933">TS</a>]
01:55:40 ◼ ► testimony. Again this is not it's not good news for eyewitness testimony. You definitely have opinions on either side. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6940">TS</a>]
01:55:48 ◼ ► This testimony I do well I do I do and I also I guess I just think the whole. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6948">TS</a>]
01:55:55 ◼ ► I don't I don't want to get all upset again and I get on like on a rant but. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6955">TS</a>]
01:56:00 ◼ ► I think that future generations will judge us very harshly for our current prison system. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6960">TS</a>]
01:56:09 ◼ ► Our current prison system is horrifically capricious and unnecessarily barbaric and accomplishes nothing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6969">TS</a>]
01:56:18 ◼ ► So many systemic problems in it that I think this is the same kind of thing that like like we look back in history now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6978">TS</a>]
01:56:24 ◼ ► and go wow you know how could how could slavery be so wildly present so obviously a horrible thing how could society [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6984">TS</a>]
01:56:35 ◼ ► and in one hundred two hundred years people will look back on our prison system as it currently exists [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/6995">TS</a>]
01:56:41 ◼ ► and think similar similar thoughts like how could people possibly accept that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7001">TS</a>]
01:56:45 ◼ ► or if existant So I guess that's partly why like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7005">TS</a>]
01:56:49 ◼ ► and I get very frustrated with a lot of things that are related to the criminal justice system. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7009">TS</a>]
01:56:54 ◼ ► It's I do not think that it is good in any way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7014">TS</a>]
01:56:59 ◼ ► Story arc a story I quite liked from when I used to sit in trials one that gives me some sympathy for juries [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7019">TS</a>]
01:57:06 ◼ ► and I was just really sticks in my memory. Well I think it sticks in my memory you've got me wondering. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7026">TS</a>]
01:57:11 ◼ ► But anyway yeah maybe maybe not but this is it was this. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7031">TS</a>]
01:57:16 ◼ ► A lot of people don't realize this but I notice quite a lot how often [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7036">TS</a>]
01:57:19 ◼ ► when jurors come back in after they've deliberated on a verdict about to be given how often a few of the jurors are [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7039">TS</a>]
01:57:25 ◼ ► crying because of the time the process and the torment I've just been through what I've heard today. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7045">TS</a>]
01:57:31 ◼ ► And I remember I covered this big elaborate murder trial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7051">TS</a>]
01:57:34 ◼ ► and these people were accused of killing this other guy by sending him a bomb in the post that he then opened [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7054">TS</a>]
01:57:43 ◼ ► And one of the main reasons they wanted to kill this guy was because he was going to dog one of the killers in for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7063">TS</a>]
01:57:51 ◼ ► and this guy in the trial completely denied he was a drug dealer like this was like I'm not I'm not a drug dealers you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7071">TS</a>]
01:57:59 ◼ ► to kill us here. Isn't using this against me because I've never had anything to do with drugs in my life. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7079">TS</a>]
01:58:04 ◼ ► It's crazy so I imagine that would have left some doubt in the jurors minds. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7084">TS</a>]
01:58:09 ◼ ► So anyway a whole bunch of other things happened which I'll tell you that sometimes it was a really interesting trial [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7089">TS</a>]
01:58:14 ◼ ► and the jurors came back in and some of them were crying because they weren't sure they'd done the right thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7094">TS</a>]
01:58:21 ◼ ► but the verdict was delivered and they found these people guilty. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7101">TS</a>]
01:58:27 ◼ ► And there was this amazing atmosphere this one the most amazing atmosphere ever is to be in a room [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7107">TS</a>]
01:58:34 ◼ ► when a big verdict is about to be given rockets. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7114">TS</a>]
01:58:36 ◼ ► It really makes you realize what like they have to touch the atmosphere with a knife names so I mean it's really a very [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7116">TS</a>]
01:58:46 ◼ ► So this verdict was delivered and there was this feeling of sort of emotion [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7126">TS</a>]
01:58:49 ◼ ► and excitement all these feelings were going on and then the judge did something in a really interesting way. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7129">TS</a>]
01:58:55 ◼ ► Pretty pretty emotional way and he said before I dismissed the jury. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7135">TS</a>]
01:58:59 ◼ ► This doesn't always happen he said before I dismissed the jury. I want you to stay here. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7139">TS</a>]
01:59:03 ◼ ► Here is I want you to see this next bit and then he turned to the prosecutor [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7143">TS</a>]
01:59:07 ◼ ► and said Mr Prosecutor can you please tell me a little bit more about the accused because there's a whole bunch of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7147">TS</a>]
01:59:12 ◼ ► stuff that the jury wasn't allowed to be told and the prosecutor stood up so triumphantly [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7152">TS</a>]
01:59:17 ◼ ► and said YES I CAN Your Honor the defendant has been convicted of heroin traffic trafficking three times [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7157">TS</a>]
01:59:24 ◼ ► and he has all these drug convictions and he really would have all the drug convictions and it just changed everything. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7164">TS</a>]
01:59:30 ◼ ► And and the jurors who weren't allowed to notice the look of relief on their face and the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7170">TS</a>]
01:59:36 ◼ ► and the weight that lived it still sends tingles down my spine now the way it changed the jurors like that were like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7176">TS</a>]
01:59:44 ◼ ► Thank God you know we were right but the one thing that made us think we were wrong. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7184">TS</a>]
01:59:49 ◼ ► The motive instantly went away and all the other physical evidence was still there and I made the right decision [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7189">TS</a>]
01:59:55 ◼ ► but the one thing though unsure of was motive because of the laws and that was it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7195">TS</a>]
02:00:00 ◼ ► Really amazing moment but it also made me really sympathize with what she was going through. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7200">TS</a>]
02:00:05 ◼ ► Was reading available credible experience. Can I ask you two final questions. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7205">TS</a>]
02:00:10 ◼ ► Sure I know you don't deal in absolutes because you know if but if you can if you can try [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7210">TS</a>]
02:00:17 ◼ ► and give me I think a good deal and I don't know if you are sick. Well then give me a yes or no to the cooler. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7217">TS</a>]
02:00:24 ◼ ► Would you recommend someone listen to cereal. Yeah yeah I think so. It's worth listening to. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7224">TS</a>]
02:00:34 ◼ ► and I wouldn't recommend anybody watch her to terrible the second thing is not not what would you do if you're on the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7234">TS</a>]
02:00:43 ◼ ► jury do you think he did it and I'm sorry. Do you think he did. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7243">TS</a>]
02:00:50 ◼ ► After listening to twelve episodes not would you convict him. Do you think he did it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7250">TS</a>]
02:00:57 ◼ ► OK OK I have a longer thing to say about that. So why don't you first. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7257">TS</a>]
02:01:02 ◼ ► Obviously you would recommend that you first tell me what your answer that question is I would obviously I would [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7262">TS</a>]
02:01:06 ◼ ► recommend serial I think it was just a fantastic thing. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7266">TS</a>]
02:01:09 ◼ ► Yes and wonderment are and yes they recommend and I do think he did it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7269">TS</a>]
02:01:19 ◼ ► I think he I think he committed the crime that he's in jail for. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7279">TS</a>]
02:01:24 ◼ ► Not that what I think matters and not right and I don't know if I was on the jury when I was done [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7284">TS</a>]
02:01:28 ◼ ► but after listening to this I think you did and I'm surprised the reporter doesn't. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7288">TS</a>]
02:01:37 ◼ ► So mark my answer my answer to your question is I think it is fundamentally unknowable in the in the current state. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7297">TS</a>]
02:01:51 ◼ ► I guess I guess the reason why I feel like this is that this is a longer I don't know if my answer is longer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7311">TS</a>]
02:01:57 ◼ ► and more complicated it is. In some ways I don't think whether he did it or whether he didn't do it is relevant. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7317">TS</a>]
02:02:07 ◼ ► I think in the in these like people people want these answers [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7327">TS</a>]
02:02:12 ◼ ► and I just I don't think that that's that's really what matters I think it's all it's all a question about evidence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7332">TS</a>]
02:02:22 ◼ ► And I I I don't think that a jury should have convicted him of that crime based on based on what was presented. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7342">TS</a>]
02:02:35 ◼ ► But of course that is in no small part biased by my I don't believe witnesses I don't care what they say under any [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7355">TS</a>]
02:02:41 ◼ ► circumstance. It is it is a relevant factor. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7361">TS</a>]
02:02:46 ◼ ► I think this this came down into a what is an interesting case [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7366">TS</a>]
02:02:51 ◼ ► and what Sir King herself was kind of doing sometimes in the in the show was trying to see like because we had this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7371">TS</a>]
02:02:58 ◼ ► window of twenty one minutes where he was unaccounted for [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7378">TS</a>]
02:03:01 ◼ ► and it's a question of could he get from the school to murder his ex-girlfriend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7381">TS</a>]
02:03:05 ◼ ► and then get back to track practice in time and. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7385">TS</a>]
02:03:11 ◼ ► I felt like they were trying to find ways to show that he he could have done it in this time. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7391">TS</a>]
02:03:17 ◼ ► There was just enough time if everything if everything went right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7397">TS</a>]
02:03:21 ◼ ► But I feel like our whole justice system is supposed to be set up on the presumption of innocence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7401">TS</a>]
02:03:29 ◼ ► and so you have to presume that he is innocent. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7409">TS</a>]
02:03:33 ◼ ► And the fact that he had time to go and commit this murder [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7413">TS</a>]
02:03:36 ◼ ► and come back makes him no different from anybody else who was on the track team anybody could have gone there [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7416">TS</a>]
02:03:43 ◼ ► and come back in those twenty one minutes is nothing special about him except that a jury is looking at him sitting [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7423">TS</a>]
02:03:51 ◼ ► there during the trial. So I guess that's kind of my long winded thing of saying I don't have an. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7431">TS</a>]
02:04:00 ◼ ► Opinion at all on whether or not he did it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7440">TS</a>]
02:04:02 ◼ ► Do I have a feeling just as someone who he knows humans and hears things [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7442">TS</a>]
02:04:07 ◼ ► and just puts things together in the head you don't even have a feeling I know I understand you think he could be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7447">TS</a>]
02:04:12 ◼ ► convicted and if he can't be convicted he copped a plea and he should walk free free whether he did or not. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7452">TS</a>]
02:04:17 ◼ ► I'm not asking you that I'm just asking you what you feel as a human hearing twelve hours of people talk about this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7457">TS</a>]
02:04:24 ◼ ► including the including the person who was convicted. We hear a lot from him. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7464">TS</a>]
02:04:31 ◼ ► You don't just you don't have a feeling you don't just have a gut feeling because that's all I've got a bit of evidence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7471">TS</a>]
02:04:40 ◼ ► that he did and a bit of evidence that maybe he didn't and just from what I know of humans and what [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7480">TS</a>]
02:04:45 ◼ ► and what I think of all the humans I've met and putting it all together in a big blend [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7485">TS</a>]
02:04:50 ◼ ► and I got through with it I want to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7490">TS</a>]
02:04:51 ◼ ► or not I don't have a gut feeling if you told me Brady you must know I have a gut feeling at the end. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7491">TS</a>]
02:04:56 ◼ ► I'm sorry I will and I have one. Are you telling me you don't have one. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7496">TS</a>]
02:05:05 ◼ ► Well I guess I do but it is it is very slight [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7505">TS</a>]
02:05:10 ◼ ► and like I said I think it is a relevant I don't I know I know it's irrelevant. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7510">TS</a>]
02:05:14 ◼ ► Mine is relevant to my claim that anyone who wasn't on the jury's opinion is irrelevant [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7514">TS</a>]
02:05:22 ◼ ► but that we've spent all this time talking about it I'm just asking if you share with us what your gut feeling is. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7522">TS</a>]
02:05:29 ◼ ► Have you got a reason for not sharing it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7529">TS</a>]
02:05:32 ◼ ► Now No I well I guess only slightly in that I think it sometimes just detracts from the other arguments that I'm trying [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7532">TS</a>]
02:05:39 ◼ ► to make in this in the same way like with my humans need not apply video I did there was things I didn't want to talk [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7539">TS</a>]
02:05:45 ◼ ► about because I think they were distracting and so my gut feeling in this case is that he didn't do it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7545">TS</a>]
02:05:52 ◼ ► but I don't want that to for people to be like oh that's why you're focusing on his testimony. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7552">TS</a>]
02:06:00 ◼ ► I'm hesitant to say that I can't because if some piece of evidence comes out tomorrow that there's like you know well [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7560">TS</a>]
02:06:06 ◼ ► you know this shows so clearly that he did it. Like I said this is relevant to me. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7566">TS</a>]
02:06:13 ◼ ► Like I don't I don't care I didn't change my opinions on eyewitness testimony [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7573">TS</a>]
02:06:17 ◼ ► and how horrific the whole justice system is. I just I feel like I don't know. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7577">TS</a>]
02:06:25 ◼ ► I don't like a lot of stuff that's wrapped up in this and it's what I do it's what saved them successful. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7585">TS</a>]
02:06:34 ◼ ► but I think something you're very notion about like having gut feelings about stuff that's exactly the kind of thing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7594">TS</a>]
02:06:39 ◼ ► that scares me about humans and particularly humans on and on juries. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7599">TS</a>]
02:06:45 ◼ ► I'm not I'm not so sure how much juries are actually using any kind of of evidence [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7605">TS</a>]
02:06:52 ◼ ► and how much they're just going on their own gut feelings like when I was doing the jury. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7612">TS</a>]
02:06:57 ◼ ► Jury nullification video I was looking into a bunch of stuff [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7617">TS</a>]
02:07:00 ◼ ► and it's like you can find some just horrific studies about how people make decisions like ugly people get get longer [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7620">TS</a>]
02:07:09 ◼ ► sentences. You know I like beautiful people don't like one of the things like OK there. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7629">TS</a>]
02:07:17 ◼ ► There are vastly more men in prison than there are women because men tend to commit more violent crimes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7637">TS</a>]
02:07:24 ◼ ► But for like if you look at very similar cases that are committed by a man [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7644">TS</a>]
02:07:29 ◼ ► or a woman like a woman tends to get a shorter sentence on average than a man for the exact same same kind of crime [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7649">TS</a>]
02:07:35 ◼ ► and one of them or one of the more famous ones which is the most like there's not a jury [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7655">TS</a>]
02:07:40 ◼ ► but it is a horrific example to me of the capriciousness of human decision making has to do with parole boards [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7660">TS</a>]
02:07:47 ◼ ► and basically you want to see the parole board just right when they get in or right after they've had lunch. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7667">TS</a>]
02:07:57 ◼ ► Yeah but like the longer it's been since they've. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7677">TS</a>]
02:08:00 ◼ ► On the less likely they are to grant parole [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7680">TS</a>]
02:08:04 ◼ ► and all this kind of stuff to him he is like does not bode well for humans making any kind of rational decisions [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7684">TS</a>]
02:08:11 ◼ ► when they're faced with another human being's life in their hands [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7691">TS</a>]
02:08:15 ◼ ► and so I feel like Man I bet a lot of this comes down in the jury room to basically even though jurors won't admit it. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7695">TS</a>]
02:08:23 ◼ ► It's a question of how much they like the witness Jaye and how much they like the defendant like [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7703">TS</a>]
02:08:29 ◼ ► and they'll backtrack in their mind their reasons for going one way or the other. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7709">TS</a>]
02:08:35 ◼ ► But I feel like I don't know the criminal justice system is too important for for a lot of this kind of stuff like I [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7715">TS</a>]
02:08:43 ◼ ► feel like the threshold for convicting someone should be incredibly high to counteract a lot of just the randomness of [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7723">TS</a>]
02:08:53 ◼ ► I like Ray you know having got failings in the criminal justice system is incredibly dangerous [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7733">TS</a>]
02:09:02 ◼ ► and prevalent that's that's the thing that really worries me it's not like oh this is a dangerous thing we have to be [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7742">TS</a>]
02:09:06 ◼ ► careful of. It's more like now every juror ever. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7746">TS</a>]
02:09:11 ◼ ► They get a sense of the worst thing in the world I mean how often in life I mean we've evolved these things that we [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7751">TS</a>]
02:09:18 ◼ ► don't even completely understand this ability to know when someone's lying. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7758">TS</a>]
02:09:25 ◼ ► or even that I don't like the way that phrase like you're presupposing that it works right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7765">TS</a>]
02:09:31 ◼ ► We have evolved the ability to know that someone is lying. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7771">TS</a>]
02:09:35 ◼ ► Let's go this far hasn't it stopped us from Bush that we thought might have a big danger especially But again you're [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7775">TS</a>]
02:09:42 ◼ ► pre-supposing that your lie detection ability works really well. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7782">TS</a>]
02:09:48 ◼ ► and what might actually be the case is it works fifty one percent of the time right which is good enough to get the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7788">TS</a>]
02:09:54 ◼ ► species through but it doesn't mean like oh everybody's really good at detecting lies but. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7794">TS</a>]
02:10:00 ◼ ► I find that like so much of the stuff people start from the premise that they want right. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7800">TS</a>]
02:10:05 ◼ ► Oh you know humans are going to detecting lies are you have you double blinded this because [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7805">TS</a>]
02:10:11 ◼ ► when you do turns out people are crap right people are terrible at this [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7811">TS</a>]
02:10:15 ◼ ► but they are way over estimate their abilities on this kind of stuff so I know I've been very ranty on this pod cast [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7815">TS</a>]
02:10:22 ◼ ► and I'm sorry about that I don't use your passionate guy. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7822">TS</a>]
02:10:26 ◼ ► Yes that's right I am dense I was going to come into that one at least being interested in some current news [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7826">TS</a>]
02:10:32 ◼ ► but this is fifteen years ago but the current news is about the pod cast. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7832">TS</a>]
02:10:37 ◼ ► That's that's how I found about it through you know things things of interest to the global community find their way to [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7837">TS</a>]
02:10:44 ◼ ► me like the serial podcast. Heaven help someone if you and I were ever on a jury that's for sure. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7844">TS</a>]
02:10:51 ◼ ► I will never be on the jury I will never be allowed on any jury which I think I would make an awesome juror which also [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7851">TS</a>]
02:10:58 ◼ ► Yeah I think on a jury not in there's no way in America I would get on a jury because you made your video. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7858">TS</a>]
02:11:07 ◼ ► No no because they ask you the question about jury nullification which is basically instant dismissal instant dismissal [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7867">TS</a>]
02:11:13 ◼ ► and they ask questions about eyewitness testimony. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7873">TS</a>]
02:11:16 ◼ ► And there's there is no lawyer that would accept a juror who says they wouldn't value eyewitness testimony because you [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7876">TS</a>]
02:11:24 ◼ ► have it like again you have to remember it it like I mean you know just like you have to be aware like the the the the [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7884">TS</a>]
02:11:33 ◼ ► defense and the prosecution are picking jurors and there's a bias towards trying to pick people who are influential. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7893">TS</a>]
02:11:42 ◼ ► They're not they're not looking for like the platonic ideal of of their citizens you know that they don't want people [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7902">TS</a>]
02:11:49 ◼ ► who have experience with that with that they don't want lawyers on the jury like they don't want any anybody who has [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7909">TS</a>]
02:11:55 ◼ ► experience with with anything that's relevant to the trial like I've seen occasionally. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7915">TS</a>]
02:12:00 ◼ ► People read the notion of having professional jurors and I think that might be less crazy than it sounds [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7920">TS</a>]
02:12:07 ◼ ► and I think that's an interesting notion that like maybe we shouldn't have this weird system where we're trying to pull [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7927">TS</a>]
02:12:13 ◼ ► influenza pull people from the general public to serve on juries [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7933">TS</a>]
02:12:17 ◼ ► and maybe we should have people who are who are used to the procedures and used to how this works. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7937">TS</a>]
02:12:22 ◼ ► I mean there may be all kinds of other problems with that [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7942">TS</a>]
02:12:24 ◼ ► but it's like it doesn't sound like a crazy idea if I think about it for for more than a few minutes. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7944">TS</a>]
02:12:30 ◼ ► Not saying I'm for it but I just it's crossed my radar as a potential potential alternative. Are we done with Syria. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7950">TS</a>]
02:12:38 ◼ ► I guess we're done with serial but probably done all together I mean I think so. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7958">TS</a>]
02:12:44 ◼ ► Anything else now you know the news nothing triple the five but I just checked C.N.N. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7964">TS</a>]
02:12:49 ◼ ► Dot com and there's lots of stories I want to talk to you about right now. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7969">TS</a>]
02:12:53 ◼ ► I mean I go see what's And if it was important. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/7973">TS</a>]
02:13:51 ◼ ► Well no actually what would you want me to say you think I used the baby say one frontally is funnily enough I think. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8031">TS</a>]
02:13:58 ◼ ► B.B.C. Sport. And then. So what sport you says happened before I checked. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8038">TS</a>]
02:14:03 ◼ ► Like would use actions incentives and if I open up bbc dot co dot U.K. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8043">TS</a>]
02:14:09 ◼ ► Now you didn't use one click and I'm sorry the news is that what you want was top story. Watkins X. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8049">TS</a>]
02:14:17 ◼ ► Cleared over abuse image I have no idea who that is. You know that the Charlie Hebdo stuff presumably. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8057">TS</a>]
02:14:24 ◼ ► Yeah yeah I saw that on Twitter. I'm aware that that kind of thing like across my radar leaders in election T.V. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8064">TS</a>]
02:14:33 ◼ ► Debates Rao that's remarkably uninformative title. Oh snow snow isn't storm sweep across the U.K. [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8073">TS</a>]
02:14:41 ◼ ► There we go the annual snow pocalypse I love I love it has snowed Ryan [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8081">TS</a>]
02:14:47 ◼ ► but I can say this now here at the distance it makes me sad it hasn't come here but I always say I hope it's nice [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8087">TS</a>]
02:14:53 ◼ ► and my wife's like snow is terrible there is something there's an image or Asia plain areas are playing [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8093">TS</a>]
02:14:59 ◼ ► and laws look at it it's you probably already knew them or across that ran across them you parades now [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8099">TS</a>]
02:15:05 ◼ ► and he's now pro snow or rain to snow do you like it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8105">TS</a>]
02:15:09 ◼ ► when it snows like do you like if I said Do you have course I love it [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8109">TS</a>]
02:15:12 ◼ ► when it's no that's one the worst things about living in London as it doesn't snow so if I said I could make it snow [<a href="https://overcast.fm/+BgMXdtP-o/8112">TS</a>]