The Talk Show

82: ‘We're Allowed to Make Stuff Up; It's a Podcast’, With Dan Frommer


  I enjoyed the first new show on the new network you notice any different now [TS]

  than I did all the RSS worked and sound a good couple of people owning it put a [TS]

  little extra effort into it it seems like there were pretty well in terms of [TS]

  all the stuff that was supposed to forward getting forwarded you know our [TS]

  RSS Feed Reader X and it is crazy though because it's like there's like four [TS]

  different redirects there's like feeds . new radio talk show is really a CNAME [TS]

  that Feedburner now feed press OK press is like the new indeed totally India [TS]

  version of FeedBurner as surprised get on then I'm still using Feedburner her I [TS]

  still don't know though it's like I'm torn because they do seem to have some [TS]

  good analytics but on the other hand I always like just controlling my feed [TS]

  totally and they you know and their defeat press seems like the best option [TS]

  for something like this by far and you know you can do as I can you you know [TS]

  they have any PII so you can always do a manual rebuild say hey look I you know I [TS]

  made an edit to my last entry rebuild the feed so there you have the current [TS]

  version of everything I don't know I might seem so did do a decent job [TS]

  estimating subscribers which is the big thing right [TS]

  yeah and that's I think you're on Soundcloud as well yeah yeah why I [TS]

  signed up their cause they're the only ones who even tried to tell you how many [TS]

  times it's been played yes I don't know how they are determining you know what [TS]

  counts as a play this was a gold YouTube question of 2006 like how much of the [TS]

  video to actually watch and I actually own the listeners a a correction on that [TS]

  over the last week [TS]

  said SoundCloud was free and if they do have a free tier but for like unlimited [TS]

  download it tonight free it's $30 a month I think which is i what I have now [TS]

  44 the show but compared to what I would pay to host the audio on s3 which i [TS]

  think would probably be around two or three Grand Am I and it is free right [TS]

  when you when you're comparing two or three grand for hosting on s3 vs $30 a [TS]

  month for SoundCloud alright that's free and my you know with an asterisk yeah [TS]

  it's crazy that s3 gets expensive it doesn't really scale that well in terms [TS]

  of pricing for media no not yet [TS]

  like video I mean I can't even imagine what a popular video download would cost [TS]

  ya cuz I would think video would have to be at least at least an order of [TS]

  magnitude bigger than audio right which just makes YouTube's infrastructure more [TS]

  impressive when ya about it yeah absolutely yeah cuz my show this show is [TS]

  usually around seventy megabytes you know sixty seventy eighty megabytes [TS]

  depending on how far past the hour mark we blow yea the one hour you mean the 22 [TS]

  hours you still do you usually under still under fifty megabytes for about an [TS]

  hour and then at the you know with the audio compression settings we use and so [TS]

  you know somewhere between fifty and a hundred for an hour plus show my first [TS]

  big story at Forbes when I was there was trying and this was early 2006 trying to [TS]

  guess how much you to spend with bill was based on there and this is YouTube [TS]

  you know pre Google acquisition their their venture funded company and back [TS]

  then there were very few options for hosting video so they were using these [TS]

  content delivery networks I think one I think the one they were using was [TS]

  limelight [TS]

  the big one as Akamai which is actually both public companies now but and they [TS]

  refused to talk to me they wouldn't tell me and so I just use kind of publicly [TS]

  available data of you know how many how many hours of video they stream today [TS]

  the kind of rate you know going rate for video streaming video they actually [TS]

  don't did not stream it was a it was a progressive download which was cheaper [TS]

  than streaming because back then to stream you had to have some Adobe [TS]

  license and and then yet and then I guess and I guess that it was a million [TS]

  dollars a month you know an educated guess based on interviews with all these [TS]

  experts in that kind of stuff and we publish this article and people went [TS]

  crazy it was just a huge got a lot of attention because I think the big [TS]

  headline was something this was when did was massive it was like YouTube burning [TS]

  up cash spending a million dollars a month on a ver VC money on bandwidth and [TS]

  I think the first thing I heard it back you know kind of threw like a second [TS]

  degree grapevine was that I was kinda off by 10 X which is kinda you know not [TS]

  ideal [TS]

  you know it's always was very clear that it was an estimate and you never want to [TS]

  be off by by that much so you know a million dollars a month would have been [TS]

  a lot back then especially in this was before the era of the fifty million [TS]

  dollar VC round so I'm so her which way were you off though you were off hi I [TS]

  was high so they were they were running YouTube free free Google they were [TS]

  running at $400,000 [TS]

  a roughly a month maybe something like that but yeah yeah it was much smaller [TS]

  than but then I think I saw an interview recently with one of the founders were [TS]

  they said that it costs almost a million dollars a month so I don't know I don't [TS]

  really i mean you know someone has the bill somewhere so we now but then if you [TS]

  looked at Lime lights financials there is no way that YouTube [TS]

  us you know that bigger there because they were not a huge company at that [TS]

  point there is no way the YouTube is generating like a third of their revenue [TS]

  or whatever it was so anyway it was a really it was one of the first business [TS]

  tech stories I did where we kind of played the the wire you know the follow [TS]

  the money game and there's a lot of fun it was a really fun story got a lot of [TS]

  attention I i you know I hope it was more accurate than it was in actually [TS]

  don't even know how accurate it was but people from YouTube just would never [TS]

  commenter or give suggestion either way but it was fun yeah it's a fun like a [TS]

  modern equivalent of how many jelly beans are in the chart type of question [TS]

  totally yeah and back then you know now video delivery is a lot cheaper I think [TS]

  and videos bigger to cause its H D but it it's you know and I'm sure there are [TS]

  quite a lot of companies with billion dollar AWS bills out of me [TS]

  yea well guggenheim wonder what do unwanted you know good question now is [TS]

  what is Google paying for bandwidth for YouTube the month I wonder because I [TS]

  think that a lot and this is where now I'm making stuff up cos I don't actually [TS]

  know but I think a lot of their bandwidth is appearing basis so they [TS]

  don't have to pay actual cash they just can't plug in to the other ISP and they [TS]

  I don't know great question probably I'm not sure you must be a and yeah you may [TS]

  be right that Google isn't a genie situation that there they don't pay for [TS]

  been with like normal companies yeah and there always are all these murmurs that [TS]

  like Google is buying up all kinds of dark fiber and I would not be surprised [TS]

  if they have the most advanced network infrastructure of any you know company [TS]

  it's not like a straight-up telecom company so I don't know now I'm just [TS]

  making stuff [TS]

  but thats commentary right that's how we're allowed to make stuff up its cast [TS]

  I wondered 23 user-submitted videos to to YouTube they still have the [TS]

  ten-minute lemon right I don't know I've never I haven't uploaded a video to [TS]

  YouTube in a long time I know that you know that first stuff to deter others [TS]

  like a commercial partnership I mean when when you know some people can host [TS]

  their whole movie on YouTube right but that's not just like guys signed up your [TS]

  YouTube account and upload an hour video like the 10 minute thing is still a real [TS]

  limit but I'm not quite sure you still see videos [TS]

  chopped into multiple parts when they're clearly not partner videos like you know [TS]

  some rip Apple Keynote or something like that a lot of them are still junked up [TS]

  another good question I haven't I haven't you know uploading making web [TS]

  videos is one of those things that every like two or three weeks on my comment I [TS]

  wish I was making cool videos and then that's the end of it but someday [TS]

  marianna yeah I don't have the podcast audio thing again we talk about talked [TS]

  about last week but it's it's it's weird I know but sounds cool and you're right [TS]

  that they do just to circle back five minutes that they seem to do more work [TS]

  trying to figure out how many downloads you have than anybody else and it isn't [TS]

  just ok you started a download right well we think you don't but it's it's [TS]

  important because a podcast is delivered many different ways you know I'm sure [TS]

  some people are actually listening in to it via the actual Soundcloud player but [TS]

  a lot of people probably most people are just pulling the file through either [TS]

  iTunes or the iOS podcasts app or any other pod catching type things so [TS]

  and the other thing that gets to be like RSS too because you know podcast is RSS [TS]

  but the same way with RSS feeds that the the numbers of don't equate to people [TS]

  because let's say you signed up in my apples podcast app and you have a [TS]

  subscription to the show and now you're using castro or something else that new [TS]

  people don't unsubscribe from the other ones who used you might be copying it [TS]

  twice you may be down only unwanted items on your Mac were you don't even [TS]

  listen to it and in 110 Castro on your iPhone you're just one person you're [TS]

  only gonna listen lunch but you might have two or even three copies of it yeah [TS]

  and I often listen to you know this show on three or four different devices [TS]

  throughout the course of the show so who knows what it's better for everyone if [TS]

  all of those count as a place nobody had a mean it's am i complaining about it [TS]

  I'm just only pointing out that it's very hard thing to put a number on it [TS]

  always has been I mean even the Nielsen numbers for TV they were nonsense you [TS]

  know oh I mean have you ever been part of the Arbitron radio survey were you [TS]

  actually have like a paper book and you're supposed to fill in what you're [TS]

  listening to the radio that when I was like 12 is fine for five bucks I'll [TS]

  write down the radio shows how much listening to right that is actually how [TS]

  radio ratings I they're still computed that way but they might be and I think [TS]

  it's a little more digital now but it's still there still believe I was talking [TS]

  to someone about this someone recently at a member of his radio TV though but [TS]

  still based on I think it's I think we're talking about TV Nielsen I think [TS]

  it's still based on like you know Nielsen households that have some sort [TS]

  of equipment or now it at some point in the eighties and nineties they switched [TS]

  to equipment but I'll know when I was a kid in like the seventies I remember [TS]

  reading that it was like Nelson it was a log book that yeah the family would do [TS]

  it and that it was it back in those days not that there was a lot of [TS]

  inappropriate stuff on but that people would because you had to self-reported [TS]

  people [TS]

  would write wouldn't write the trashy stuff that they watched that they were [TS]

  embarrassed in they'd say I what's the you know the macneil a report on PBS [TS]

  when in fact all night in fact there were watching you know brady bunch [TS]

  reruns or something yeah let's take a break [TS]

  thank the first sponsor this is great as a new sponsor karma kar maa what's karma [TS]

  karma and high-level you kind of think of them you know like mophie juice pack [TS]

  with that is not the case but you know the little square rectangle ones and you [TS]

  just have battery power you can use it for any use for your iPhone you can use [TS]

  it for your iPad anything with a USB connection karma is like that except [TS]

  instead of battery power it's for wifi so karma is a little cute very small you [TS]

  take a look at the hardware is really really small easily fits in any kind of [TS]

  pocket very thin 4G hotspot and you turned on its 4G connection it creates a [TS]

  little takes the 4G and creates a local WiFi network and you can connect [TS]

  anything to you can drive phone to your Mac or iPad super cool have a device [TS]

  like that or a hot spot for your Mac because Mac still don't come with any [TS]

  kind of 4G cellular networking and its they've got a crazy cool business model [TS]

  no monthly fees use by the data and you can take as long as you want to use it [TS]

  if you buy it [TS]

  hundred megabytes or something like that you only use 15 this month next month it [TS]

  doesn't reset you still have 85 left you did use until it up not a monthly fee [TS]

  data is really affordable costs as little as $9.99 per gig 10 bucks for [TS]

  gigabyte pretty good for for cellular and it's made for sharing so you create [TS]

  an account and you create a hotspot and you let other people on if you have [TS]

  friends you can let them on your hotspot and every time somebody else joins using [TS]

  your hot spot you each get an extra hundred megabytes free you get another [TS]

  hundred megabytes added to your account you can use it when everyone [TS]

  they get a hundred megabytes to start with just for signing up for free so if [TS]

  you just keep letting people use your thing you might never even pay for did [TS]

  they have an iOS app that lets you check an Android 12 if you happen to have an [TS]

  Android device use the app you can check your balance see who's connected to your [TS]

  voice right now so what do you buy the device it's 99 bucks to buy the little [TS]

  hot but nice when you sign up you gonna make about free but don't just go there [TS]

  by do it this way their URL is your karma dot com yourrr kar maa your karma [TS]

  dot com slash the talk show go to that code your karma dot com the talc showing [TS]

  you'll save 15% off right off the tops only be 85 bucks for you like I said [TS]

  it's like a little mophie juice pack but instead of battery power it just gives [TS]

  why fight all your devices really cool deal great prices and with the sharing [TS]

  thing you might not even have to pay for it to go check them out [TS]

  great punter I've used one of these things and works works a charm [TS]

  used it last month in San Francisco and I was out there for the build conference [TS]

  you can do it you're listening right now you wanted to be W C's quick order one [TS]

  right now even get it for you before you get out there can't believe thats a week [TS]

  away I cannot either a week from we're recording on Memorial Day Monday the [TS]

  26th of May so literally one week from today it will be keynote will be over [TS]

  right it'll be 11 o'clock pacific as we speak so it will will be cracking open [TS]

  the health book app and yeah picking our fingertips and measuring our blood doing [TS]

  a blood test on the now I don't know I use an app called ida [TS]

  I don't know how to pronounce it I T A [TS]

  iOS app that lets you make little checklists and you can sit you know [TS]

  dozens of a checklist but you have 14 like packing for a conference and then [TS]

  when I'm done and then I just uncheck am on a conference I can do it again last [TS]

  year like a dumbass i did not bring an old iPhone to PC and so I had to sit [TS]

  there and think what I did there is no way yet to be a crazy person to install [TS]

  the first beta of iOS on your daily use iPhone especially when you're away from [TS]

  home away from you know you're on your phone on dates and especially when its [TS]

  iOS 7 exactly well exactly when it's a major release like that so I never [TS]

  others I don't know why but it's all I've added a checklist to my car and you [TS]

  know all your along every time I go to anywhere else any kind of business trip [TS]

  I get the spare iPhone 4 iOS beta check thing and I just check it off cuz I do I [TS]

  know I don't want it but then when I pack for your next week I'll bring my [TS]

  nice iPhone 5 I guess I am I ran out and bought a ipod touch for that and then [TS]

  there were so many people out there who went to the one that I guess it's closed [TS]

  now Apple Store on Market Street San Francisco yeah I think they're remaking [TS]

  it right right there moving up to wear levi's used to be Union Square I'm not [TS]

  sure if they're done with it but anyway the one that's right up there on Market [TS]

  Street couple blocks from Moscone I don't know if they sold out or they came [TS]

  close to but there was like just you know forty fifty sixty people from the [TS]

  BBC going into by the super cheap au $299.00 church that's awesome when it [TS]

  doesn't even have a camera yeah that's when I got to go back like a week later [TS]

  when I realize that there is no need to have an iPod Touch but but you took it [TS]

  back running iOS beta I don't know if it wipes fact I am sure they can figure it [TS]

  out I'm sure Apple Computer [TS]

  yeah yeah I I can't help but think we're gonna see we gonna get paid as well that [TS]

  stuff next week [TS]

  yes I'm wondering the big question I have been thinking about writing about [TS]

  this tonight or tomorrow is how drastically different the new OS 10 is [TS]

  gonna seem I just thinking about how you know when I was seven came out people [TS]

  freaked out obviously not the Mac nerd types but a lot of other people did and [TS]

  I wonder if changing someone's Mac that drastically would also cause people to [TS]

  freak out and so I wonder how different it'll be theoretically they would change [TS]

  a lot of the Mac OS two more closely resemble Iowa seven or whatever I S [TS]

  eight is going to look and feel like but I don't know I do not know what to [TS]

  expect and I spidey senses is failing me i mean clearly is going to change some [TS]

  degree cosmetically but just how radically I know yeah and also the idea [TS]

  of running this now almost four year old MacBook Air with a new software running [TS]

  it also seems strange because OS 10 has really not changed that much [TS]

  visually since then they've added a lot of stuff you like launcher and all that [TS]

  kind of stuff but I don't remember like a different feeling Mac OS right yeah I [TS]

  think that when they forget which version number one in 10 points six [TS]

  maybe was ten five but one of them when they when they got rid of the separate [TS]

  metal windows and just had all the windows just have one appearance in its [TS]

  gray you know I mean there's not going to be two types of Windows anymore [TS]

  a simple right [TS]

  was probably 10 5 10 6 Snow Leopard yeah so tens 5's the one where they made it [TS]

  look and and it certainly look different than what came before it because I got [TS]

  rid of a lot of the candy-colored stuff but it was a good Jen toll flattening it [TS]

  wasn't a radical flattening [TS]

  this is the sword and I think that's what a lot of people were expecting with [TS]

  iOS 7 was that kind of flattening and a perfect example of that if you can [TS]

  anybody wants to look it up just look out the screenshots from last year's [TS]

  WWDC app remember this and everyone was like this is what I yeah and I even saw [TS]

  on Twitter mark Gurman from 9 to 5 Mac the other day was writing because he had [TS]

  written about it you know that hey this is what I was seventh going to look like [TS]

  and he still thinks it did that it was a clue as to what I was seven and I would [TS]

  say no it was a step in that direction but like a half step as opposed to the [TS]

  actual I was seven which was like holy shit yeah that was my you know had a lot [TS]

  of people's reaction when that video came out just showing all the new [TS]

  graphics and all that kind of stuff and I've said this before the last over the [TS]

  last couple weeks on the show like the flat is overused and in talking about [TS]

  these interfaces but you know there's no other word to say it a lot of the way is [TS]

  West seven on the iPod iPhone and iPad it is flatters a lot less 3d treatments [TS]

  between elements you know that when something scrolls underneath the [TS]

  navigation bar there's no shadow there it's just just a one pixel line I just [TS]

  don't see how the Mac can get away with that much flatness when you have by [TS]

  definition these overlapping windows yes yeah by the way I love this is like you [TS]

  know as someone who learn web design in the mid nineties and didn't really learn [TS]

  much since then no 3d or gradient modeling [TS]

  any of that kind of stuff I love flat design because it's all of a sudden I'm [TS]

  actually a competent designer but and I'm nervous about when it's going to [TS]

  start getting more more technical again and yeah we still have an iPad original [TS]

  iPad running while i guess its iOS 5 now and I use it every few weeks and it's [TS]

  super weird yeah I think it is anyways great but it also many ways I'm very [TS]

  used to iOS 7 now and I really like it like there's there are some annoyances [TS]

  but that's never not going to be the case but I really like the way it feels [TS]

  yeah I think that for all the fights this what's the German terms determined [TS]

  wrong yes something like that why you guys know what I'm talking about [TS]

  well for all of the consternation that I was seven cause and and and as as vocal [TS]

  as some of its critics are about the plane this of it visual style in [TS]

  hindsight when I go back and fire up one of those devices i you know i phones and [TS]

  look at Iowa sex or look at an old original iPad that has to be running iOS [TS]

  5 or whatever the last version that it supports those it looks so much older it [TS]

  just looks way more than we can it's hard to believe that it that that until [TS]

  like eight months ago that was what everybody was using it really feels like [TS]

  it it's just the distant past [TS]

  visual style wise yeah and I don't see that changing I mean there may perhaps [TS]

  make some tweaks like there are some of the Iowa 7 icons to just don't really [TS]

  make sense like I think Game Center and then maybe also the newsstand one which [TS]

  is hiding all the apps in there I don't know what's going to happen news denim I [TS]

  just paper eyes but yeah maybe with new standards actually appropriate because I [TS]

  feel like they don't know what to do with his stand-in so an icon that sort [TS]

  of doesn't really know what it is either kind of [TS]

  yeah that's going to be a jerk but it kind of fits whereas Game Center yeah I [TS]

  don't know I kind of feel like they punted on its attractive to me but it [TS]

  doesn't say Game Center no balls yeah just says like it just looks like [TS]

  something you know we don't have an icon yet but we want to start giving beta [TS]

  build it could be any at it could be any avital could be you know a photo app [TS]

  Notes app could be a game you know we'll just put this placeholder icon hear ya [TS]

  I'm excited about it though I do think you know in a big part I think it's [TS]

  really cool here we are one week out from the BBC we have no idea what this [TS]

  Mac OS 10 thing is gonna look like and as a longtime Mac guy you know someone [TS]

  who really got drawn into the whole following up will closely specifically [TS]

  only because of the Mac I think it's pretty awesome that here we are in 2014 [TS]

  in the most exciting thing we have coming up next week is a Mac interface [TS]

  overall oh yeah yeah I'm pumped I remember when I switched from six to [TS]

  seven on the Mac and now is crazy like that was the first one where the folders [TS]

  are colored in ya 6 was system 6 worse you know [TS]

  traced outlines and they are seven had the beginning of that kind of 3d bolder [TS]

  look and that was just yes six supported color on certain models but it was funny [TS]

  it was a very flat color because member like yeah it was very very flattered I [TS]

  think it still had a black and white apple logo though I think the color [TS]

  Apple logo didn't come in you know for the menu bar until but but everything [TS]

  was fine in the win even though you have color the windows were still drawn just [TS]

  blew snot grayscale black-and-white it was generally pixels on white pixels for [TS]

  the windows in [TS]

  and open and save dialogues and everything and then seven had like the [TS]

  scrollbar had a gradient to the window title bar had a gradient yeah sorta [TS]

  thing and it was you know it was clearly an evolution of the system 6 look they [TS]

  just kind of colored in certain parts but didn't color in much I think it was [TS]

  sort of I wouldn't call that an exciting overall though it to me gone from 67 it [TS]

  was a huge change but the interface wasn't really that hugely changed I also [TS]

  think that it it slow down our old maxim that was that was the thing I remember [TS]

  is that system 7 really slow down your computer and it is I think we had a LCD [TS]

  running six or maybe a plus or something I dunno yeah cause people used to people [TS]

  used to complain about the old original Open and Save dialog boxes a lot because [TS]

  they were mowed all and they were kind of ugly and it was system seven actually [TS]

  originally didn't fix that I forget when the the NAB services Open and Save [TS]

  dialog boxes came about which were a little bit more modernized you I was but [TS]

  the thing about the old Open and Save dialog boxes was that if you knew the [TS]

  keyboard commands the command up arrow and down arrow and you knew that you [TS]

  could type ahead to match items in a list right like to match if if it's a [TS]

  list of people's last names I could just type fr and get ya romer you can really [TS]

  fly through those dialog boxes because when you hit command up to go up a level [TS]

  in the hierarchy and down down down command outcome and down it would update [TS]

  instantly it was like you could if you knew the incantation the new your way [TS]

  around that you weren't using the mouse you're using the keyboard you could kind [TS]

  of zip around your hard disk the similar paces to somebody who is an expert on [TS]

  like a command-line system and then when system 7 came out to see Mike everything [TS]

  got slowed down in [TS]

  you did come in W you get the watch cursor for a little bit just a little [TS]

  all sorts of little things really slow down and that was the thing that I hated [TS]

  about visiting friends houses with PCs was that even though Windows was was [TS]

  pretty awful it felt so fast vs system 7 and I wonder if maybe that's the kind of [TS]

  thing that the new Mac OS by Willoughby attend her as we're not eleven you know [TS]

  it'll be ten-point town I wonder if that's the kind of thing that a flatter [TS]

  simpler you I could actually achieve a ps3 made your computer faster I don't [TS]

  know maybe not I don't think feel like we've gotten to the point where even the [TS]

  cheapest Mac can render pretty quickly yeah and especially if they're gonna go [TS]

  in a less exuberant style like there's certain things in the transparency and [TS]

  iOS that maybe they're pushing the limits on maybe they kinda are pushing [TS]

  the limits on some of the iOS devices that supported true and the parallax and [TS]

  stuff like that like that they didn't have a good frame rate on some of those [TS]

  effects and it's gotten better with 71 but they were pushing but any Mac you [TS]

  know even the cheapest Mac Mini which hasn't even been updated and six hundred [TS]

  days or something like that [TS]

  can just chew that stuff up I mean that the days when a Mac can render you know [TS]

  Windows dropping down and stuff like that [TS]

  menus dropping down quickly it's yeah I think so too is well with SSDs and all [TS]

  that jazz [TS]

  that's definitely a big change I think it's kinda cool though that we you know [TS]

  hopefully that's the reason that it's kind of cool that that we haven't seen [TS]

  any major leaks yet about what's going on [TS]

  could just mean that there's nothing there's nothing worth knowing I don't [TS]

  know her but I think it's kind of cool yeah I'm curious the leaks often come [TS]

  closer to the event right especially when their software hardware leaks kind [TS]

  of you know have been coming to early the supply chain stuff but when it's [TS]

  stuff that never left Cupertino to begin with that the night before like wasn't [TS]

  last year didn't some 1925 or someone else have all the icons either the night [TS]

  before the morning of but I think that they had it as re-creations some right [TS]

  yes someone like dictated to them and then they drew them and they did really [TS]

  good yeah I think he joked about margaret was like like like a police [TS]

  sketch where the yeah and it's like a dead ringer holy hell that's the guy [TS]

  they they they like police sketched the icons and they did a really good job and [TS]

  it was and they nailed it and there is so many people of course because the [TS]

  icons are probably it's the first thing you see and be they are were kind of [TS]

  radically simplified and there are so many people who are like no hope for [TS]

  ways Apple gonna do I constantly was awesome and then you gotta wonder you [TS]

  know for the apps that have the same app and OS 10 and iOS do they have the same [TS]

  icons now so fari get this new icon the same as iOS or is it still Mac has their [TS]

  own icon set right and are they going to do a thing like give Mac icons and [TS]

  official shaped like a circle oh yeah interesting you know they've done a lot [TS]

  of circles you know like the iBooks is new and has a circle and absolute gonna [TS]

  circle though the iWork numbers that kind of stuff are still right free-form [TS]

  shape their arbitrary shapes I don't know yeah I feel like I don't know I [TS]

  wouldn't be surprised but I feel like they're so much I mean there's be thirty [TS]

  years a history of Mac icons taking whatever shape that one whereas the iOS [TS]

  always had you know you're going to make it a little round cornered square right [TS]

  that's true yeah I used to make Mac icons that was [TS]

  as a weird hobby like high school with resident just kinda goofed around is [TS]

  there is a forgot which he was 84 85 had kind of these 3d folders and I would [TS]

  draw the icon of apps back then you know I wouldn't keep my apps in the apps [TS]

  folder I'll just keep them in their own folders right and Macintosh age D so [TS]

  there is like the cork express folder and so I made like a special cork icon [TS]

  for that folder I should think or category icon some of them had off like [TS]

  a member of customizing icon so same thing you did it go in [TS]

  did it go in and actually be an idiot and go in and get the actual resource in [TS]

  the application or you would make your own icon and then copy and pasted in the [TS]

  finders get info yeah and then you could just delete it and it would go back to [TS]

  the regular I country that right and then some of them I even made aliases [TS]

  and I think an alias could even maybe have its own icon yeah yeah good yeah [TS]

  you could I think I'm almost sure you could which was crazy and confusing [TS]

  right well known anyone who would sit down on my computer wouldn't have no [TS]

  idea how to use it but did you remember when i dont member which Mac OS maybe it [TS]

  was 8854 aid which had it shipped with maybe one or two themes and then there [TS]

  was the idea that they would be more themes coming within the just never came [TS]

  yeah that was that was I think it was just time for Mac OS 8 when they stop [TS]

  calling its estimated right the first version of Mac OS aid and search [TS]

  Syracuse's listening to the show his head is exploding because he can't just [TS]

  jump in and corrected tell us exactly what they go is 8.0 and it was called [TS]

  the parents manager yes and the appearance manager was a control panel [TS]

  it had a list of themes and there was platinum which was the default look [TS]

  gizmo which was there when it was like kids team look like something from a [TS]

  nickelodeon and techno which was sort of the look like something from that would [TS]

  have been art directed for like Terminator movie or something like that [TS]

  like a sci-fi movie where they have you know a custom theme for the GUI that the [TS]

  computer you know that the characters are using now did you know about the [TS]

  leaked unofficial fourth female now it was drawing board [TS]

  oh of course yes the ad that I love that I wish I could run that now if I get it [TS]

  OS ten-point 10 was drawing board I would take to write drawing board made [TS]

  it look like an architectural sketch like the windows were made out of paper [TS]

  and that the buttons and everything were sketched in by an architect and even [TS]

  shipped with an architect handwriting font forget the name of the fun but i [TS]

  dont member it set the system fun to that so late your menus in your window [TS]

  titles were in that that architect handwriting but that never shipped to [TS]

  customers it shipped as a developer betas so you know people who are in the [TS]

  Developer Program got those teams so that you can make sure your applet gizmo [TS]

  and technology your raid that the architectural was the one that actually [TS]

  was like maybe may be able to use that I mean it was told it felt like playing [TS]

  one of those old sim city games where it was like back in the day be one of those [TS]

  games where is like the expansion set yeah and you know just was never as fun [TS]

  as the main SimCity but it was cool I think I ran it for a couple of months [TS]

  I'm not looking this up I'm going from memory RAM trust in my memory which is [TS]

  dangerous but my understood my recollection though is that this [TS]

  Mac OS they didn't come out until after the next acquisition and the next you [TS]

  come in and steve Jobs was the interim CEO an hour between ian was the CTO or [TS]

  whatever his title was and while most of their efforts were focused on getting [TS]

  this next step [TS]

  Mac OS carbon next generation who asked that they kinda had you know start in [TS]

  ninety six and building hoping to ship in the year and they wound up not even [TS]

  shipping in 2002 2001 or whenever you know they were for five years out from [TS]

  it but in the meantime they had to keep the company running them so that team [TS]

  took over at least overseeing the last few years of Mac OS [TS]

  evolutions Mac OS 88 1859 I guess was the last 16 to write and they were like [TS]

  ready to ship it with these themes and steve Jobs was quite as this bullshit [TS]

  get out get it all out its ships with platinum that's the way it looks like [TS]

  and so it's shipped with an appearance manager and it would say theme and there [TS]

  has one choice it like so they they ripped her team's out the alternate [TS]

  themes were ripped out at the last minute but they didn't couldn't rewrite [TS]

  all the software so it was this interface that looked like it was meant [TS]

  to have the list of teams and it did but there was only one to choose from [TS]

  yeah it was hilarious and I was out when you could you could change the colors to [TS]

  match the different iMac colors as well like tangerine and and lime and that [TS]

  kind of stuff or is that later I remember it later because they didn't [TS]

  come out until 1998 was the original iMac and in 99 was when the colored ones [TS]

  came out but then they did they had like I forget if the software could tell what [TS]

  color your iMac was though and and default to it but yeah you could pick [TS]

  like highlight colors that matched your your candy colored I'm I can't do any of [TS]

  that so that's that's pry ok yeah well is there anything I i've gotten old and [TS]

  crotchety so I don't know I don't look either maybe there is I wonder whether [TS]

  there's still something like that cuz they used to be something the early days [TS]

  in Pakistan where you could switch the team it was from vanity [TS]

  oh yeah hey look at that appearance you can go [TS]

  guess these are these are many different options here you can pick blue or [TS]

  graphite and then you can change the highlight color but blue or gray are [TS]

  your choices now that's right maybe yeah and and you know this is obviously now [TS]

  just just fanfiction almost but I wonder if the Mac hardware will ever kind of [TS]

  more closely reflect the Iowa hardware like you know the five-seat I plastic [TS]

  like the return of the iBook or something like that it just as I was [TS]

  testing out that new Microsoft Surface this week [TS]

  yeah and it reminded me just how old the MacBook Air design is i mean it's now [TS]

  six years old almost the current MacBook Air and is a look the sting is lighter [TS]

  than a MacBook Air MacBook Air six years old man yeah and it looks to me the part [TS]

  that really kind of looks a little dated is the the bezel around the screen [TS]

  writers writing over like this since thick frame around the screen and that [TS]

  the only part that is black glass or plastic glass but you know shiny black [TS]

  screen is the screen whereas on the MacBook Pros they've got this much to me [TS]

  much more modern look which looks like it matches the phone in matches the iPad [TS]

  matches the iMac which goes it today is now matches the current displays where [TS]

  the whole front surfaces black glass or black shiny screen material and then not [TS]

  all of it is actually screen pixels but it's just surrounded by black screen [TS]

  that it strikes me as a kind of thing that they've learned so much since then [TS]

  with the iPhone and with the other Macs that there's a lot of improvements they [TS]

  could make it they were you know redesigning the [TS]

  laptop from scratch today yeah my my guess though is that they're waiting for [TS]

  retina heirs to write date that because they just came out last month with new [TS]

  MacBook Airs think they're gonna end their you know their their latest CPU [TS]

  kid from Intel and etcetera etcetera but it's you know what we call in the [TS]

  business a speed bump update not a major update but given that it just came out [TS]

  last month I can't imagine they're gonna go retina soon and i cant [TS]

  therefore I think that when they do go right now they'll get the modern look [TS]

  where the whole front when you open up his black yeah unless they introduced [TS]

  that as a new line which they kind of did with the retina perot because they [TS]

  kept the older bro around who knows now this is silly [TS]

  well this sort of thing that they did it with the pros they could do it they [TS]

  could do whatever they want but I kinda think they wouldn't because it seems to [TS]

  me that that sort of bifurcation of the product line it you can do it with a [TS]

  device that pro- and you kind of can't with their cause the areas just sort of [TS]

  the default there is you walk into an Apple store and they say how can I help [TS]

  you say I want to get a laptop [TS]

  they're going to you know the odds are pretty good you're coming out with 13 [TS]

  inch MacBook Air is it's just the defaulted the one thats the cheats [TS]

  cheaper you know and and I know that the pros of gotten its crazy if you know [TS]

  member how much power books used to cause back in the day it's crazy that [TS]

  you can get a 13 inch MacBook Pro with Retina display for $12.99 I think the [TS]

  soaring prices which is crazy but $9.99 and a lot less than $12.99 you know [TS]

  you're talking 25% less more than 25% right yeah I mean you had a hundred [TS]

  bucks for tax or whatever it's you know you know and it's that there's no [TS]

  there's just one of those made all those every time you go up a digit it's a [TS]

  magic price $9.99 is a lot less [TS]

  less than $1,000 in people's minds [TS]

  yeah I know any of it if you charge the $0.99 but it just feels it just feels [TS]

  like it's cheaper so are you shipping new Vesper by WWC this year it could be [TS]

  any day as I remember that's when you launched last year I yeah I will if if [TS]

  we were approved that would tell you right now but we're not but it should be [TS]

  knock on wood if everything goes through it should be before WBC should be well [TS]

  before deputies he last year was pretty tight end this but is not the sync [TS]

  update or maybe you shouldn't tell me what it is tell you don't tell anybody [TS]

  else though it is ok let me take another break of dawn and tell you about our [TS]

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  because you don't have to think to box for this video three bucks his reaction [TS]

  of its gonna be worth it cuz I have to spend three bucks to do it you just sign [TS]

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  it's not stop it go back keep looking to find all of their courses are produced [TS]

  at the highest quality really high production level really good talented [TS]

  teachers so it's not at all like it's like the polar opposite of the homemade [TS]

  videos you find on youtube where anybody it's a crapshoot whether it's going to [TS]

  help you whether the person actually knows what theyre talking about whether [TS]

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  on your own terms [TS]

  great deal really great videos I guess it twenty four hundred of them it's just [TS]

  unbelievable and and everything from technical stuff to creative stuff really [TS]

  great they've been around for a long time [TS]

  here's the best part I've got a deal with them for the sponsorship of the [TS]

  show where you have access to their entire library 347 days so sign up for [TS]

  seven days white as many of these videos as you want and there that's how sure [TS]

  they are that you'll sign up afterwards how do you do that [TS]

  go to ly and the a dot com slash the talk-show with a why [TS]

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  you're anything like that you're curious about wanna learn I cannot recommend it [TS]

  highly enough it's a great great stuff my thanks to so you mentioned [TS]

  your Surface pro review our first look this is well let's take a step back [TS]

  though it's oh so since last you were on the talk show you've picked up a new gig [TS]

  you are now I don't forget your title but you're like the new technology [TS]

  columnist at ports yes the started a week ago I'm the tech editor courts [TS]

  which means I'll be writing several posts a week probably wanted a maybe a [TS]

  little more than that maybe less depending on the news flow and then also [TS]

  building out a team [TS]

  of journalists around the world actually that's one of the really cool things [TS]

  about courts which I guess I should explain what court says it's a [TS]

  relatively new business news site owned by the Atlantic that started in 2012 and [TS]

  their whole thing is that it is what you know they sat down they said if you were [TS]

  starting a business news site in 2012 what would it be [TS]

  well it would be designed first for phones and tablets unless for a desktop [TS]

  computer because talk show during fireball I'm sorry keep going down [TS]

  because that's where people be reading it it'll be global because people fly [TS]

  around a lot and and real business leaders are thinking about what's going [TS]

  on in asia just as much as what's going on in at home and and you know it will [TS]

  have new forms of advertising and they've never really I've never seen in [TS]

  the history of the site any standard banner ads on the site they do these [TS]

  special custom kinda big adds that network for mobile site and for a [TS]

  desktop site so it's really cool the staffers it's pretty small it's really [TS]

  really smart people there [TS]

  the editor-in-chief is this guy Kevin Delaney who was at the wall street [TS]

  journal for a long time and was one of their leading tech journalist there so I [TS]

  was not looking for a job [TS]

  been working on my startup City notes for a long time now and we're gonna be [TS]

  shipping brand new app in the next few months that you know could be a big [TS]

  thing someday but when the existing tech editor from courts left recently for the [TS]

  wall street journal like email Kevin say hey man let's let's get together and [TS]

  talk because I've long been a huge fan of the site I think they do really cool [TS]

  stuff they one of the really interesting things there is that they have a team of [TS]

  engineers that sit in the newsroom and work with journalists and and our [TS]

  journalists themselves and make collapse [TS]

  and interactive stories and tools for the newsroom to either do reporting or [TS]

  to tell stories and we have a church building tool that you know was made by [TS]

  one of the Court's engineers for the courts newsroom so it's really cool its [TS]

  kind of you know if you if you are taking all the elements of a news [TS]

  organization and creating them from scratch [TS]

  you know in this era it's a really good representation of that so I'm really [TS]

  excited to join the team I'm I have not been riding much lately so I'm quite [TS]

  rusty but I posted a few things last week and hope you all follow me there [TS]

  it's very simple URL designed for the mobile era it's QZ dot com you know the [TS]

  element courts I believe there is that the letter I was here at a table but [TS]

  it's really cool I'm really happy to be there be covering you know the same [TS]

  stuff that I did my old sites planned out which is Apple Microsoft Google kind [TS]

  of big tak mobile and I'll hopefully get to do some travel as well looking up [TS]

  your stories around the world that you know most desk bound check you know [TS]

  sites are really so they they courts is always interesting to me ever since it [TS]

  debuted its cooler for me that somebody who I know like you is going to be [TS]

  writing there but they've always had good stuff they've always had an [TS]

  interesting design where it doesn't really look like anybody else's stuff [TS]

  they were really early to me on that [TS]

  infinite scroll where when you keep get you get to the end of a of an article in [TS]

  a sort of a bottom of the page they just sort of algorithmically predict what [TS]

  this might be something else you're interested in you can close the window [TS]

  if you want but if you want to keep scrolling down here is another article [TS]

  yeah and that's you know for better or worse I think it works really great on [TS]

  on mobile when you know hey if you're still connected to the network here [TS]

  something else to read sometimes the computer it's a little frustrating cuz [TS]

  you wanna share the previous story that you read and then all of a sudden you're [TS]

  at the next one but they've heard that you know again they have engineers in [TS]

  the newsroom so they're making changes in real time as they decide whether [TS]

  something's working or not but that reminds me of Adrian whole body during [TS]

  any news I know the name co-creator of the Django Python ok a bunch of other [TS]

  stuff from chicago he's been on a mean longer than anybody maybe even close to [TS]

  a decade but at least from a 2006 2007 on programming as journalism you know [TS]

  that it's now that that the output device for so much journalism is a [TS]

  computer that it's not a piece of paper with ink on it and it's not a TV screen [TS]

  getting something broadcast to millions of people identically that it's this [TS]

  device that can compute that it's almost criminal not to take advantage of that [TS]

  and that we can't you can't just hire your way to take advantage of it is not [TS]

  just hire programmers to build you a CMS and then they go away and you're just [TS]

  sit there and type text into it and pasted pictures into it but that they're [TS]

  full time part of the team in the same way that a TV studio a TV news is always [TS]

  going to have cameramen that website should always have programmers yeah that [TS]

  you wouldn't the same way that you wouldn't get rid of cameramen at a TV [TS]

  station you know you wouldn't just haven't come in at the beginning and set [TS]

  the cameras up in the studio and say here to the angles they should be at now [TS]

  you're on your own just just hit this button when you want the camera to [TS]

  record you know you wouldn't want you don't want to dismiss the programmers [TS]

  after they've built the system now and I think like having worked in a few [TS]

  newsrooms now there in many organizations there tends to be a [TS]

  combative relationship between product and and the journalists because you know [TS]

  sure every CMS has flaws you're just sitting around [TS]

  and and ragging on this crappy CMS you know you're probably not thinking that [TS]

  the nicest thoughts about the people who made it for you and often are you know [TS]

  trashing them whereas if they're sitting next to you and you are working on stuff [TS]

  together it's a really cool opportunity it's also made me personally realize [TS]

  that I need to learn to code to you know I've been programming web site since the [TS]

  mid-nineties known HTML and later CSS since you know since it was a thing but [TS]

  I never took the dive into more advanced stuff and now I realize especially the [TS]

  last six months working with my friend marked orson on city notes kind of [TS]

  feeling like a helpless loser not being able to help out with with building our [TS]

  iOS so I know it's gonna take a lot of time but and it's kinda corny but in [TS]

  this era it feels like coding skills are almost like freedom so I want two things [TS]

  I'm gonna spend some of my spare time I now have already started actually I [TS]

  don't want to use the metaphor but I'll compared to camera work again where you [TS]

  know there was a time when it was so calm you know in the film days when you [TS]

  had so much going on just take pictures where you know many people learned to [TS]

  take photographs but now everybody has cameras with them all the time and not [TS]

  everybody is going to be a pro photographer and not that you are going [TS]

  to become a top notch developer but it's like you should have seen you know maybe [TS]

  everybody should have a basic fluency in it [TS]

  yeah a little coat and everybody should learn a little bit so you can take a [TS]

  decent picture like maybe especially when you're out you're a journalist you [TS]

  see something you should be able to get as good a photograph is your you know [TS]

  your iPhone is capable of taking I think also the mobile era you know has a lot [TS]

  to do with at least for me because back in the day like out by like student [TS]

  edition of was a cold warrior [TS]

  was the old yeah [TS]

  and I tried learning that I bought books like learn C on the Macintosh works yeah [TS]

  right and never took I can never got past hello world in part because you [TS]

  know it's there my desk think well if I could make him a cap what would I make [TS]

  not gonna make like an email client or something like that so and then the web [TS]

  came out so I just kind of started goofing around on the web but now in the [TS]

  iPhone era like I have an unlimited list of cool apps that I would want to make [TS]

  and and and so one of the things that's that has kind of stuck with me over the [TS]

  last week as I've been starting to learn JavaScript just kind of getting my feet [TS]

  wet is it's strange and unfortunate that there is no kind of iPad native [TS]

  programming environment and maybe I'm totally missing it but I've never heard [TS]

  of one that's that's has any traction in or has any acclaim and some like you [TS]

  know starting with these programming lessons and I have to sit at my computer [TS]

  at a desk in this ok coo coo DEA definitely worth checking out [TS]

  ok this wouldn't be good for you it more for kids there's a great one for kids [TS]

  that Jonas has on his iPad oh cool less code in a little bit more visual code is [TS]

  probably one worth checking out [TS]

  people on people who are out there let's send us twittered send it hit us up on [TS]

  twitter twitter is my [TS]

  Torana let me know what I should be doing alright dude tips but you know and [TS]

  this is one of the things I cover during the day is that post-pc shift like I did [TS]

  an article this week in courts about tablet sales are actually on pace to [TS]

  match PC sales this year or at least come very close and by next year [TS]

  far surpassed them but you still can't make a tablet app on a tablet [TS]

  well and that's the problem that could ran into is that they ran into it out [TS]

  you get it but they've run into a lot of hassle with the App Store in terms of [TS]

  like you interpret encoder some well I think that they're using javascript so [TS]

  there's a rule that you're not supposed to include a third-party interpreter but [TS]

  if you want to have interpreted code you can use the web kids javascript and have [TS]

  at it but you can't they wanted to have it you could maybe like savior sample [TS]

  project and then I could download your sample project and running and could but [TS]

  then all of a sudden that runs afoul of the ARU distributing apps you make a [TS]

  game and co dia and then you send me the game thing and now i cant open it in my [TS]

  copy of could have a new game running and I didn't get it through the App [TS]

  Store and so that was like so I forget all the crazy hoops you have to jump [TS]

  through but it makes it all it's all worse for the overall experience for the [TS]

  benefit of Apple's control overall distribution and you know there are [TS]

  there are constraints you know typing in stuff on an iPad is annoying still and I [TS]

  get it would be cool if either apple or a third party were to come out with a [TS]

  fairly sophisticated yet iPad design and coding environment will remember you [TS]

  can't do it right [TS]

  member when we were kids and we would get magazines with programs in them [TS]

  right now here's a program [TS]

  that you know there's a simple I mean this is stupid you can write this in 10 [TS]

  lines three lines of basic you know but you know and to your weight on earth [TS]

  here's what you weigh on the moon and here's what you would weigh on jupiter [TS]

  and then you would type it into your you know your Apple $2.99 for a basic and [TS]

  then you'd save it and then you type of run the name of the program and it would [TS]

  run but to to duplicate these programs they were printed magazines and you'd [TS]

  sit the magazine next to the computer and type the men and that's how I [TS]

  learned a lot of HTML from the net magazine Jimmy like tables and that kind [TS]

  of stuff you know and it's crazy that when when now that we've invented things [TS]

  like the internet and copy and paste and down writing and stuff like that that's [TS]

  sort of how you have to use ko diya because they don't want you to [TS]

  distribute things that you just tap and open and run and so you're stuck [TS]

  retyping all this stuff but I always worth checking out [TS]

  yeah yeah I remember actually think Google made some sort of very simple [TS]

  Android you know program almost drag-n-drop programming tools I don't [TS]

  think it took off the price shut it down you know what that's an interesting [TS]

  point because it doesn't have the disease that iron-fisted control over [TS]

  executing code that by design not not like it's you know rights as a weakness [TS]

  this is a difference of opinion you know so you know you could buy a Nexus and [TS]

  you know stock app you know this is the stock Google Android device [TS]

  annexes whatever the latest phone is and you can go into settings and say allow [TS]

  you know applications from third parties and then it'll say you sure this is you [TS]

  know could open up to security problems you say don't worry I know what I'm [TS]

  doing and then you can install apps from anywhere and you you know with no [TS]

  developer signing and stuff like that you can just install apps on your device [TS]

  so there's an opportunity there were they could have something like a sort of [TS]

  next-generation hyper card right i mean that so that's what everybody always [TS]

  comes back to as they come back to hyper card because hyper card and the reason [TS]

  people keep coming back to hyper card is that hydrocarbon people you know if if [TS]

  if I don't know what the percentage of people who can program is this ballpark [TS]

  in say 45 percent of people if they want to can program objectives he apps [TS]

  probably lower than that I would say less than 10 let's say all right let's [TS]

  be more realistic it's a one percent of people have that that aptitude and it's [TS]

  a combination of ability and desire because it's so hard and complicated you [TS]

  just can't make yourself do it unless you're driven to do it and you know how [TS]

  hard was that thing we're way more maybe five percent of people who looked at i [TS]

  per carton had ideas for a little thing a good programmer you know if you click [TS]

  the button this happens and you can click this button and you have a list of [TS]

  things that you can drag and drop to rearrange that there was way more people [TS]

  who could look at it [TS]

  get it and and and not in terms of intelligence I think entirely although [TS]

  part of it is clearly intelligence but it's also that that level of obsession [TS]

  where if it was so much easier to do it and you didn't have to commit so much [TS]

  and learn at such a low level you'd be willing to do it would be willing to try [TS]

  a little less abstract it's not you know a text editor with gibberish in it it [TS]

  there's a lot more visual aspects they did it just removed a lot of friction [TS]

  and it just the lack of friction would encourage more people to try it in the [TS]

  same way the digital photography you know ultimately the best pictures we [TS]

  take are they any better than the best pictures that were taken fifty sixty [TS]

  years ago no but way more pictures are being taken period because there's so [TS]

  much less friction you just turn on these simple devices and exposure is [TS]

  computed automatically [TS]

  you know the the apertures computed automatically and it's fiction is [TS]

  removed and so people do it and that's what I per card was hyper card was like [TS]

  a point and shoot camera for programming and there's less get that for iOS [TS]

  you're listening you out with this bill will do it [TS]

  yeah I think I think people's you know people have tried stuff like that and I [TS]

  think sometimes people maybe get caught up because they want to boil the ocean [TS]

  all at once and I think well it's not just you I listen to iOS and Android and [TS]

  web browser Tuesday that anybody you can open it I say start simple maybe you [TS]

  know to attempt to get to it and have it just run on the iPad right and then [TS]

  worry about worry about other things next get it running on the iPad and [TS]

  expanded the iPhone and then think about Android and then you know but get it [TS]

  running one place at first anyway I think Google has an opportunity there to [TS]

  do something Apple couldn't because Google could build a thing like that and [TS]

  not worry about the distribution of these you know the hyper card parlance [TS]

  the stacks right you hyper card was the app and it ran stacks whatever you want [TS]

  to call them but you know that you would they could allow people to distribute [TS]

  these things to other Android users and not they don't care if you're not going [TS]

  through the Play Store anymore [TS]

  totally yeah and I think they started to try it but then they don't know what [TS]

  happened with that weird thing that they made maybe it was just too simple I [TS]

  really think it was a typical Google thing where somebody you know some three [TS]

  people built the thing I never really anything behind it and they relate well [TS]

  to ship it you know who cares and then nobody ever right kind of headset with [TS]

  Automator but that's not really that's not even hard but I remember in the [TS]

  early Automator days actually my friend ran a cycle Automator world which was [TS]

  you know a community of Automator recipes or whatever they are called now [TS]

  is pretty cool [TS]

  Automator school and Apple script still remains you know it's alive and well but [TS]

  it's not [TS]

  driving around and you know but you know there's little signs of health for it [TS]

  like for example I mean the biggest signs of health for Apple script to me [TS]

  is that when the new versions of iWork apps came out the new Pages Numbers and [TS]

  Keynote with this unified file format across iOS and the web and the Mac apps [TS]

  and they took out all these you know all these features that were in the Mac gone [TS]

  because they'd they defied the whole platform on this common denominator [TS]

  features Apple script is gone but in the months since they've they've brought it [TS]

  back I don't think that they've brought entirely back but it mostly back you [TS]

  know that most of the things you could do an AppleScript in those apps before [TS]

  you can do again you know it wasn't enough to be there in their initial [TS]

  release but it's enough of a priority that they got to it with before before [TS]

  the end of the year [TS]

  yeah that's good do you buy into the concept of multi view you know two apps [TS]

  to up apps on iOS or playing with that surface let's hold that let me to the [TS]

  third downs ok let's combine that with that for iOS combined with the surface [TS]

  of a third sponsor final sponsor the show great great company carries was [TS]

  Harry's provide they provide men's shaving good so the team behind Arby's [TS]

  is there there and one of the founders is one of the guys from Warby Parker the [TS]

  eyeglass people also a sponsor the show [TS]

  same basic idea that we're Warby Parkers thing was why in the world are [TS]

  prescription eyeglasses so crazy expensive why the customers to buy razor [TS]

  blades to shave why is the stuff so crazy expensive well it doesn't have to [TS]

  be so what they've done is they've gone right to the source they've they're [TS]

  making they even make their own razor blades they purchased in ninety [TS]

  three-year-old German FAQ [TS]

  curry makes precision engineered German engineered razor blade so they're making [TS]

  their own blades they're not just like white labeling something that they're [TS]

  buying you know from some abandoned factories on their making brand new [TS]

  blade brand new razors to hold him really cool stylish stuff really good [TS]

  equipment and it gets shipped right to your door they focus on providing men [TS]

  with a great shaving experience for a fraction of the price of the big-name [TS]

  competitors at least half the price of other brand-name razor blades better [TS]

  product design less but better none of these fancy you no no no fake chrome and [TS]

  stuff like that plastic stuff you just go take a look at their stuff and you'll [TS]

  see what I mean it's it's classic design not like the fake good design I can see [TS]

  from the Gillette or the other companies like that easy convenient you have to go [TS]

  to a drug store where all the shaving stuff is blocked behind the cabinet [TS]

  because people shoplifted or something order online and it shows up at your [TS]

  door you don't have to go out and buying stuff like that really good they've sent [TS]

  me a kid when I first signed on as a sponsor and I've used it [TS]

  great stuff it's you know it's great good shaving cream good good razor [TS]

  blades great stuff so what do you do how do you take advantage of this well have [TS]

  a promo code talk-show tal que es age 0 W [TS]

  that's the promo code and here's the offer [TS]

  use that promo code and you save five bucks off your first purchase the prices [TS]

  are already low just go to Harry's dot com har ry use that promo code and [TS]

  in five bucks off your first purchase and it was already great prices go there [TS]

  check it out they have a $15 kit that gives you a handle three sets of blades [TS]

  and shave cream that's a great deal it's everything you need to get started 15 [TS]

  bucks and even have a custom engraving option if you want to get your initials [TS]

  on the razor or if you wanna give it as a gift father's Day is coming up [TS]

  God seems like a no-brainer [TS]

  so my thanks to Harry's go to Harry's dot com and remember the promo code talk [TS]

  show [TS]

  know that just talk show my thanks to them the other harry's guy the nine were [TS]

  be Parker guy is an old friend of mine I really yeah his his wife married me she [TS]

  could not marry me she officiated our wedding there is a big difference is a [TS]

  big difference said he was there to it was cool well that's actually that's not [TS]

  like hey I met him one time not only like the guy was therefore important yet [TS]

  he's a good guy that that's a really need company that is smartly vertically [TS]

  integrated much like Warby Parker and a massive industry full of a bunch of [TS]

  clowns so I hope they do really well yeah I love all these stories of people [TS]

  who are getting into hardware oh yeah and and I feel like they're so many [TS]

  opportunities we've done our our whole generation we're all digital for so long [TS]

  and the web was such an eye opener and we all built website and spent you know [TS]

  first decade two decades of our professional careers shipping ones and [TS]

  zeros and was awesome and I still you know everything I do is still mostly [TS]

  ones and zeros right digital fireballs digital given the show is did although [TS]

  not entirely and I'll get back to that but I just love these people who had [TS]

  taken the same sort of let's just stay lean and mean and vertically integrated [TS]

  and not have the waste of a proctor and Gamble gazillion headcount conglomerate [TS]

  totally behind it [TS]

  yeah let's let's take this thing and let's just do a write you know let's [TS]

  start without all the baggage and do it right [TS]

  and ultimately it ends up being cheaper for the consumer and its grace is better [TS]

  I i feel like you know it's it's like something that nobody really imagined [TS]

  but like to me going down the the consumer Isles in like a drugstore or [TS]

  like a target if you're in that shopping for deodorant toothpaste shaving cream [TS]

  or something like that [TS]

  like forty or fifty years ago it would look like something out of science [TS]

  fiction like the way that when you go to buy crest you you have to choose between [TS]

  literally like 1215 kinds of Christ you know that used to be you'd switch [TS]

  between Preston cold and they were the rivals in in like they've they've gotten [TS]

  into this race to take up shelf space and the only way they'll get the shelf [TS]

  space's is if they have a bunch of varieties so they have Lake [TS]

  one each other on islet this point yet twenty different kinds of crest to [TS]

  choose from or or edge shaving gel there's there's seventeen kinds of it [TS]

  and i got i mean I don't know which one to get I mean I'm not an expert on it [TS]

  like I like these startups look here's good shave cream here is Gary's there's [TS]

  one flavor [TS]

  yes good here it is and that's it I love it anyway I i mean it I know their [TS]

  sponsor I am literally getting paid to tell you to go check them out but I mean [TS]

  it it's it's what I love about the show and doing this and getting sponsors like [TS]

  this is that to me they're doing fascinating and great work I realize [TS]

  that's actually and not to you know plug your show but thats part of doing that [TS]

  right is actually being in the right place to promote your company I mean [TS]

  yeah I mean proctor and Gamble to my knowledge is not sponsoring tech podcast [TS]

  but if I wanted to reach the types of people that you know load up Amazon and [TS]

  drop a hundred bucks on nonsense that there would be a good place to start [TS]

  tablets yes so you were at the [TS]

  surface announced yeah it was very strange I was like one of the first [TS]

  females I got to buy new courts address was gonna come to this surface day next [TS]

  week and I said yes sir and I didn't even know it was I thought I had no idea [TS]

  like I didn't realize it was the unveiling of a new surface again I [TS]

  didn't realize that you're not as tuned into that world as you are the apple [TS]

  world where no right they're not on that regular schedule that Apple has right [TS]

  and it's in New York and it's Tuesday I don't know why I just wasn't expecting [TS]

  that and then I showed up and here's the news service and here's what to take [TS]

  with you and it was it was interesting [TS]

  you want to take with him yeah I got I have won its my desk at the office I [TS]

  don't have it here in front of me but it was you know such and Adela the new CEO [TS]

  of Microsoft was there he kicked off the event anyway he said sounded good [TS]

  actually which was you know I'd seen bomber and gate speaker few times at [TS]

  various things in the OC seem like a lot of puffed up kinda corporate speak and [TS]

  and Sasha actually sounded more human and you know what he said was smart that [TS]

  they're making these devices that every single product ass to get into their [TS]

  cloud strategy and all this stuff and then the guy who came on a demo the [TS]

  hardware was kind of a bozo and they were making all these really stupid [TS]

  jokes about Joanna stern the new Wall Street Journal reviewer on if you watch [TS]

  the video it was just really awkward and not not funny at all I didn't watch the [TS]

  video but I was following along on Twitter and I got just that they were [TS]

  making they were referencing Joanna [TS]

  a lot yeah and it's kind of funny the first time but then they did at like [TS]

  four more times can you imagine like you know Phil Schiller stopping an Apple [TS]

  Keynote four times to rib Walt Mossberg about something right for me alright [TS]

  what if he did he'd John remember that post and and maybe once is kind of funny [TS]

  well I guess it's because Joanna who is she was gonna show a couple months ago [TS]

  but talking about these issues with tablets and laptops and tablets was [TS]

  right after she had done I'm sure this is why they referenced her is that she's [TS]

  done she's been on this beat for a couple years now [TS]

  of you know what's the ideal form factor for like one and a half [TS]

  122 pounds portable computer that you're gonna do real work on is it a tablet if [TS]

  so how do you put in your lap how do you get a keyboard to type press if it's not [TS]

  if it's a laptop you know does it have a touch screen what what what where's this [TS]

  going she's written a lot about it and she's done fantastic work reviewing a [TS]

  wide variety of stuff so I'm sure that's why I think she came from reviewing [TS]

  laptop so she has probably you know if if not the best one of the best kind of [TS]

  history's in her brain of the evolution of these devices so it makes sense that [TS]

  they would reference heard during a keynote I suppose once but then it was [TS]

  very weird I think I tweeted something like Microsoft you're still so Microsoft [TS]

  or something like that she was curious why she was in the front she found out [TS]

  why because she was part of the part of the play went to take like a regular [TS]

  season yeah right in front [TS]

  yeah some of the stuff they did was actually kind of funny like you know [TS]

  they made the kind of self-deprecating comment about how everybody in the [TS]

  audience was typing on a MacBook Air but dragged along [TS]

  and then I grabbed my service in and got out of there [TS]

  yeah that's funny that's like an interesting I say they definitely [TS]

  definitely notice that they made a joke about the fact that the MacBook Air is [TS]

  likes stock issue for what we call this decade the tens you know in the tens [TS]

  tech journalists have MacBook Airs it's just it's just ridiculous what [TS]

  percentage and that I you know most of my press event or Apple event but even [TS]

  that like build when I was it built in the press room not everybody and clearly [TS]

  there's a lot of Windows devices in the bill press room but here's a crazy [TS]

  amount of MacBook Air is too crazy and if this thing it was pretty much all [TS]

  Macs I rarely see Windows PCs in my life which is kind of funny but well life I [TS]

  guess the thing to remember is that journalists most of them are on a tight [TS]

  deadline [TS]

  you know they've got two files if there are there today to cover the Microsoft [TS]

  service event they've gotta have something ready to go pretty soon after [TS]

  the end and the lot of people now like most sites now they're taking photos and [TS]

  they're putting photos in then there's it's more than just typing in a textarea [TS]

  field hitting a button there's you know a CMS production system and you know you [TS]

  kinda need your you know I don't test them any devices but a lot of people do [TS]

  but in terms of actually doing the work of covering the event you want your [TS]

  go-to trustee this is my thing and it's got all the apps I need to you know get [TS]

  into the CMS to you know format is the way I wanna formatted to get the photos [TS]

  into where the photos go in the CMS so I can put him in the article and all this [TS]

  and from most of the people working today it's it's a MacBook Air totally [TS]

  any especially if you're carrying around areas an amazing portable computer so [TS]

  then you know the microsofts argument seems to be [TS]

  that a tablet with a keyboard is better than a laptop because they have [TS]

  different you know one was that it's lighter than a MacBook Air which I don't [TS]

  you put that big keyboard thing on there it's I don't think it's lighter I don't [TS]

  know their comparison in in this is to me it's everybody called this out is [TS]

  that their weight comparison was the uncovered surface to the MacBook Air [TS]

  which has an attached cover and if the 13 inch six-year old MacBook Air vs the [TS]

  brand new uncovered twelve-inch the design is six years old dozen that's [TS]

  fair game [TS]

  yeah it's still just came out with new ones last month you know that's fair [TS]

  game but it just doesn't seem like a fair comparison to say here's here's [TS]

  this device where a big part of it is that we've built this great cover with a [TS]

  keyboard and a great much improved over last year's trackpad and then we [TS]

  compared to this device that has a built-in keyboard and trackpad we're not [TS]

  gonna put the cover on the way right yeah so that's i mean that's also the [TS]

  cutting like okay but in your backpack with a few other things there's a really [TS]

  in in use I will say there's there's no noticeable difference in you know how [TS]

  light one of those things feels next to the other one and that's not even really [TS]

  the point like weight is not really the deciding factor in this its is this [TS]

  better for and I guess straight up just going after people who are using this [TS]

  for work like if you're the kind of person who is doing work and a laptop [TS]

  which is really the only thing I use my laptop now four straight up work is the [TS]

  tablet with a keyboard better and it's still to me it just fell off and I [TS]

  haven't used it much and I i really should use it more but the idea of [TS]

  balancing this heavy screen and with the slider keyboard than that kind of [TS]

  attached to a but not very rigid just seems [TS]

  very awkward I just I would always rather have a laptop and then you know [TS]

  for the stuff that I use it a touch tablet for have a separate tablet that [TS]

  is you know really designed for that and you know hardware and software and size [TS]

  and all that sort of stuff for wait to really matter it has to be like a next [TS]

  level i mean it's it's all a little arbitrary but it's gotta be like hey [TS]

  this is actually like a game changer and example out I'll bring up is the MacBook [TS]

  Air totally wear a year ago when it was the iPad 3 and then 24 and he's rather [TS]

  than the iPad retina iPad still had the full bezel around the hole size doesn't [TS]

  matter they were the same way to 394 versus the first generation iPad Mini it [TS]

  was like wow this one has a lot faster and has a beautiful Retina screen but [TS]

  man it's so much heavier than the mini which doesn't have a Retina screen and [TS]

  it's using your old you know [TS]

  system-on-a-chip but man is it late and it just seemed like a real easy decision [TS]

  you want to go lightweight and easy to carry around or do you want to go [TS]

  beautiful screen little bit have here whereas this year with the error it was [TS]

  so much lighter like everybody who was at the original press event in the last [TS]

  October for the iPad everybody was like geez I don't know how to decide which [TS]

  one of these two get now because the area so much lighter it's the whole [TS]

  reason I wanted to many in the first place was it was easy to hold one hand [TS]

  it but this is easier than it was so much lighter than what came before the [TS]

  surface Pro is not like that the service is over a pound so it's it's you know [TS]

  it's not heavy thick it's it's not and that's fine I mean it's you know i i [TS]

  guess its thinner than a laptop [TS]

  and maybe a little lighter than one but it's not the difference between to me [TS]

  the big the best example is still actually the MacBook Air vs my old [TS]

  plastic MacBook which was so happy that I dreaded carrying it around it whereas [TS]

  the the minute I got the 13 inch MacBook Air [TS]

  it was the first computer I'd ever owned that I am happy just to take anywhere it [TS]

  never is annoying to carry it around and there were other benefits too like the [TS]

  battery life and that kind of stuff but this so the surface is not like that and [TS]

  again I should use it more and I'm not a Windows guys kind of foreign to me still [TS]

  although I did pop open Twitter and Internet Explorer side-by-side and I was [TS]

  actually pretty cool I got totally so how does the how what is the interface [TS]

  for for putting two side by side of the full screen I'm sure there is a way to [TS]

  do it [TS]

  that is the actual way to do it but in my case it was poked around until it [TS]

  happens by accident it some secret gesture like swiping in from one of the [TS]

  sides or something like that which again I'm sure there's there's an actual right [TS]

  way to do it I just haven't figured that out so that's my ass quake and I wrote [TS]

  about this this week as you know I'm not opposed to it and you know I got some [TS]

  respect but like I wrote something I would like to put it in you know Randian [TS]

  terms Michael to still Michael lops Twitter schtick you say I want to run to [TS]

  AB side-by-side on my iPad and I hear I want the iPad to become more complicated [TS]

  right and that doesn't mean that I think that they shouldn't do it or they're not [TS]

  going to do it but all I want to China light on is that if they do it no matter [TS]

  how clever it is it will therefore make the iPad more complicated than it was [TS]

  before may be justly so maybe it's a good decision you know when when when [TS]

  the iPhone couldn't copy and paste when he couldn't select text and copy and [TS]

  paste adding that made the iPhone more complicated and I think everybody would [TS]

  agree [TS]

  it was complication for the better [TS]

  yes it's more complicated but better now because it's just so essential maybe [TS]

  we'll come up with something for side-by-side apps that will look at the [TS]

  same way and it'll work for everybody but to me I think about it as a UI [TS]

  designer and I can't think of anything that really is approachable that most [TS]

  people would use it to me it the only things I can think of are something [TS]

  where you double tap the home button to go into the multitasking thing and then [TS]

  drag drag those little window versions that you see in the multitasking somehow [TS]

  dragged two of them together and they did I just thought of that too [TS]

  independently so maybe we're onto something there [TS]

  yeah but I when I'm gonna go out on a limb and say it's only gonna work for [TS]

  apps explicitly supported because it's a new year half the screen is gonna be a [TS]

  new picture in resolutions after you ran along time ago the other one that you [TS]

  want on their right and it's not update it right how are they going to tell you [TS]

  how are they going to suggest to you that this app is you can select it right [TS]

  I don't know the other ones black and white I don't know how to count I it's [TS]

  it's a complicated complex question you i mean it's kind of like how you join [TS]

  phone calls that are in session [TS]

  yeah either put one on hold start another one and then join the two of [TS]

  those or you can put a hole in creating new on and then join them but it's it's [TS]

  not that simple because that's just kind of running audio running in the [TS]

  background where is this is if it takes three or four taps to get two of them [TS]

  together you don't want to have it completely undone by just hitting the [TS]

  home button once to do something else right if you've set this up and it's [TS]

  taken three or four taps and you've got your Twitter client running next to [TS]

  Safari and all I gotta check like my ideal living room [TS]

  set up right quick wanna check my email because there's a thing I want to copy [TS]

  and pasted from the email to put into the Safari and then you hit the home [TS]

  button you don't want to have to rebuild that Twitter thing you want to be able [TS]

  to somehow go back to it and I don't know what [TS]

  to somehow go back to it and I don't know what [TS]

  that is because the only thing you can go back to an iOS as we know it is an [TS]

  act right and now the surface if I recall correctly the way that that works [TS]

  is that it basically starts a third window and you can then decide where [TS]

  that one third window goes if anywhere I don't have it in front of me so I B [TS]

  that's a false memory but that's what it seemed like so you know I know Mark [TS]

  Herrmann said they're working on it although he did not say that they're [TS]

  doing it for sure seems to me like he doesn't even have that much stuff this [TS]

  year in terms of what's for sure other than like the health book thing yeah so [TS]

  I wouldn't be surprised I wouldn't like to bet on that I wouldn't bet on scene [TS]

  next week right yeah I mean I would like it if it were elegant you know [TS]

  Twitter on the iPad is the same with column that should be on the phone and [TS]

  then it's taking up the rest of the screen so be really cool to have Twitter [TS]

  as a side bar while I'm you know whatever using Safari or email or [TS]

  anything like that but as you say that have to do it in a way that is elegant [TS]

  and makes sense otherwise they're messing with their Nos [TS]

  other thing that they would be messing with and government acknowledges in his [TS]

  report reason I don't leave I don't know there's no word on whether it would be [TS]

  for the full-size iPad air only or for the iPad Mini 2 but the thing is is just [TS]

  in terms of the physical just physical size half of the iPad Mini screen is not [TS]

  a lot of screen yeah but in terms of pixels at the same as an air is no I [TS]

  don't know yet terms of pixels is the same but now you're talking about a lot [TS]

  very small physical space and yet they the OS is exactly the same pixel for [TS]

  pixel is exactly the same between the two there's nothing you can do on the [TS]

  one on the air that you can't do any other discuss its bigger everything is [TS]

  the pixel for pixel the same right can't help but think that if we gonna split in [TS]

  half [TS]

  it may not work out as well yeah they'll be an interesting thing to do some some [TS]

  mockups of i mean and that was the most compelling thing to me about that [TS]

  surface is why this is what a 12 inch touchscreen feels like this is kind [TS]

  cool like I could see that was a big guy power is kinda angle by piece about this [TS]

  was a can actually see a big iPad being useful like my you know my dream set up [TS]

  now would be a big iPad that I don't really take places and then a big iPhone [TS]

  that kind of replaces my small iPad but I don't you know now I'm just fantasy [TS]

  designing [TS]

  Apple hardware has lots of england plays what we doing but I'm excited for it I [TS]

  mean just in terms of if it does come out I can't help but think that the only [TS]

  real if it is gonna come out that they've got something really [TS]

  thoughtfully designed because I don't think they're under any market pressure [TS]

  to do it [TS]

  know so so Microsoft has been banging the drum for this sort of not technical [TS]

  multitasking not computer science 22 processes running on the same operating [TS]

  system at the same time but visual multitasking two things on screen at the [TS]

  same time [TS]

  Twitter and YouTube video or you know your email and web browser on our own [TS]

  time no room for my work a web browser and accelerate something like that so I [TS]

  could get data in in spreadsheet at the same time it certainly hasn't Microsoft [TS]

  having gotten to it first two years ago I guess a year and a half ago hasn't [TS]

  really help them make a dent put a dent in the tablet market so it's not like [TS]

  Apple's under under market pressure to do so in the same way that they seem to [TS]

  be under market pressure to come out with a bigger iPhone right and you know [TS]

  that there are people who are buying other brand phones because they want a [TS]

  bigger phone you know how big of that market [TS]

  you know how many people there are you can argue about but you in arguable that [TS]

  it's a number worth caring about totally [TS]

  whereas I don't see that for this multitasking on tablets to me they're [TS]

  not gonna do it unless they have something clever so I'm excited because [TS]

  of these show it I feel like we're going to see some pretty pretty interesting [TS]

  yeah I hope so [TS]

  in one of things I was thinking about 10 is in as you mentioned [TS]

  speakers such as not cut any traction with with tablets or phones I wonder if [TS]

  they should make a laptop or is that too competitive with all their partners I [TS]

  don't know how it is to me they've already broken the seal I think they [TS]

  kinda have but see here's the thing I think though and this is what I took [TS]

  away from the coverage last week and your piece in particular is that to me [TS]

  it seems like what they were saying last weeks of men is that they think this is [TS]

  the future of the laptop right a tablet that attack you know you know the screen [TS]

  part is a tablet and the keyboard part 2 detaches yeah and its cover and to me [TS]

  that's why they kept bringing up the MacBook Air and MacBook Air not the iPad [TS]

  that they weren't talking about iPads really they were talking about the [TS]

  MacBook Air that they're saying if you wanted to work this is the form factor [TS]

  you know and like the way I put it is that they're saying this tablet form [TS]

  factor isn't just for iOS type devices media so simple well in not just media [TS]

  stuff but simplified one thing at a time [TS]

  a simple system that anybody can kind of get the gist of you know you you tap a [TS]

  nap you're in the apt to tap home to go back to your apps and that they're [TS]

  saying this form factor is useful for more complicated systems like Windows or [TS]

  you know in theory now Microsoft is insane but in theory that there there [TS]

  there by implication there saying that Apple is wrong not to be doing a Mac OS [TS]

  device in this form factor [TS]

  yeah and that this is your next laptop it's this tablet right that Apple apples [TS]

  stance is that the form factors are tied to the complexities of the systems that [TS]

  simple [TS]

  tablet form factor is meant for the simple iOS [TS]

  interface and that the more complicated MacBook form factor with the task to [TS]

  keyboard and trackpad and this layer of abstraction between the trackpad in the [TS]

  pointer on screen is inherently suited to the more complex OS Mac OS yeah and [TS]

  Microsoft to saying that to me is what I took away from is they're saying no this [TS]

  form factor is the future of portable computing for any level of complexity [TS]

  the app and then the trick the trouble I have it that was that the minute they [TS]

  got into anything rather complicated immediately the stylus came out and [TS]

  keyboard so is that better you know than a just as a keyboard that's not a touch [TS]

  screen I suppose for some applications it is like you know you link to the [TS]

  people drawing on and that kind of stuff I don't you know I don't know if that's [TS]

  better than a than a purpose-designed drawing tablet like one of the Wacom [TS]

  Wacom whatever they're called a lot of what I i've always thought about with [TS]

  that and the Wacom and forget who else and then you know apparently that the [TS]

  surface is really good for this is Gabe the Penny Arcade guy who's the artist [TS]

  who's been using one for a while he has you know had that got the surface pro 3 [TS]

  roadway and says it's really good for precision driving in a way that the iPad [TS]

  screens are not precise like that but there's nothing that stops apple from [TS]

  eventually making an iPad that has a screen that that that is that precise [TS]

  and right I don't think they'll ever ship with a stylus but they could make [TS]

  one that you could get a third-party stylist that would have professional [TS]

  level precision yeah I actually bought a Kickstarter stylist that was the most [TS]

  precise like iPads obscene so far very small tip and it's it's alright but I [TS]

  just don't really have any use for us yet I never use it but is that the other [TS]

  one the pics are people members [TS]

  yeah so that's why I don't know I'm not sold on that I'm not sold and I'm sure [TS]

  there my guess is that this will be the most successful tablet PC ever made [TS]

  because that's basically saying that more than 20 people will buy it but I [TS]

  you know when I think about writing a lot or you know building a document in a [TS]

  spreadsheet program or doing graphic manipulation I'm still much happier with [TS]

  a keyboard and a real trackpad then then what they're shipping that's not to say [TS]

  that they can't keep improving it but it just like that that keyboard still feels [TS]

  like a cheapo ad on keyboard relative to the real rigid bottom half of of a good [TS]

  laptop let me know me just over here and cut off all the people who are probably [TS]

  already halfway through emailing me syntech si ti Q is it's a line of [TS]

  touchscreen tablets from Wacom oh so that's that's that's that's what I was [TS]

  thinking of but that's why you thought Wacom Wacom line of touchscreen tablets [TS]

  do you think they would do that Apple would do a touchscreen Mac OS device [TS]

  whether it's a marriage book yeah I really think now I think we're we're [TS]

  more likely to see a laptop iOS devices then touch screen Mac interesting I just [TS]

  you know what though will I don't think that they'll announce a hardware next [TS]

  week but that's something to keep an eye on when they show us Mac OS 10.2 10 is [TS]

  look at what the chips well no look at how big the screen elements are on [TS]

  screen is based in such a way that they look like they're amenable to big fat [TS]

  fingers interesting ya go as we know it is totally [TS]

  totally horrible forefingers like just the simplest thing like the red yellow [TS]

  green buttons in their windows for closing not going to happen [TS]

  weather so close to each other you do nothing and iOS is never that close to [TS]

  each other because you're there already next time and i'm looking at a safari [TS]

  window right now and the close button [TS]

  the minimize button in the back button are all you know within all of those [TS]

  three buttons are all within the target area of one button that's the size of my [TS]

  fingertip right yeah and in the menu the little ones in the menu bar you know [TS]

  with the space around and the wifi in that kind of stuff none of that would [TS]

  really be right and combine it with the File menu like the the top window in [TS]

  Safari on my Mac right now that the close button is right under the File [TS]

  menu so there's actually three touched target for touch targets that are all [TS]

  within you know the [TS]

  with drastically different consequences right open a new 2012 close that hole [TS]

  right it would be a recipe in frustration if they just turned on [TS]

  touch they'd have to resize everything in you know just do it just be you know [TS]

  I'm not saying it's impossible but it's you know you'll be able to tell just by [TS]

  looking at Iowa State if it's designed with future touch and in mind it's [TS]

  interesting and if they were to ever converge them into one you know whether [TS]

  it's fully you know the same operating system released the same look and feel [TS]

  that's where we would start to see the ques [TS]

  there I thought you were gonna say look and see if it'll run on an Intel yeah [TS]

  well we wouldn't be going to mention that so I will eat my hat if they don't [TS]

  have a version of Mac OS 10 running on ARM chips in the same probably in the [TS]

  same freakin lab that's how Tim Cook's MacBook Air lasts all the way to [TS]

  to taiwan or would they be nuts not compile especially now maybe they [TS]

  couldn't do it in fact our thinking about it maybe they couldn't do it until [TS]

  the armed with 64 bit with the last year's devices because Mac OS 10 at [TS]

  Oregon 64 bit and there is no way they could keep 64 bit Mac OS 10 running on [TS]

  32 bit ARM chips but now that they have 64 bit ARM chips if they don't already [TS]

  have it running their their full steam ahead making running it's on but we [TS]

  won't know that because in the same way that we never knew that iOS 7 was gonna [TS]

  be 64 bit until they shipped those devices today announced the iPhone 5s [TS]

  because the versions the betas they shipped starting at WWDC last year and [TS]

  all summer long they just shipped thirty two-bit betas and they never nor did we [TS]

  know that there would be an Intel version of Mac OS right versus the old [TS]

  car pc chips right is it just never distributed outside their internal peso [TS]

  speak out I mentioned before about the fact that everything's mostly ones and [TS]

  zeros but I do have a physical thing to announce which is owned live version of [TS]

  the talk show said this in the last episode I would have ticket information [TS]

  I've done this show is live in the audience but never did a new iPod [TS]

  casting sweet nice man [TS]

  know it's a live event next week in San Francisco Tuesday 6 to 9 p.m. at [TS]

  mezzanine which is right there [TS]

  what it meant to wear whatever the hell I don't know well the address will be on [TS]

  the website here is where you go this is the announcement for ticket information [TS]

  selling a ticket on a new system from my friend Paul Campbell ago behind the [TS]

  all-conference tito so you go to T I dot T O [TS]

  super short term in T I dot T O [TS]

  / during fireball and right now susan if you're listening to this you can go and [TS]

  you'll see a link to the talk show live from WBC and you can buy tickets can be [TS]

  limited space we sold out pretty quickly last year same same facility I think we [TS]

  have at least 350 tickets maybe maybe more but probably 352 start so if you [TS]

  hear in this now you should go and check it out if you want to come and anybody [TS]

  can go you have to be a WBC attending most people this year I don't have that [TS]

  jizz yeah it's complicated I don't ask I have been told that I will have a press [TS]

  badge for them and i dont have a paid to attend a bad ok but we'll see some [TS]

  tickets to this thing now because it's gonna sell out by the time anyone there [TS]

  you go I know I'm actually gonna be in Seattle that day because chorus is [TS]

  having a conference there so Monday and Tuesday [TS]

  Monday I'm actually spending Tuesday in Seattle and then coming back I should [TS]

  have gone to San Francisco where you gonna miss from Seattle but I've been to [TS]

  the one that you did two years ago and it was super fun is really great last [TS]

  year's with two years ago as cable sensor and last year I English better [TS]

  facilities where the same place we were last year mezzanine more seats better [TS]

  acoustics really is a really great place is going to be an open bar everybody you [TS]

  know you can enjoy any adult beverage of your choice [TS]

  top shelf liquor great sponsors and I think the bar sponsorship is still open [TS]

  to anybody who wants to sponsor and I'll be promoting this under fire by this [TS]

  week should get in touch with me through the usual channels on the website we're [TS]

  still looking for a sponsor for the bar and special guests special guests this [TS]

  year at these live show this is amazing and how it's going to work but going to [TS]

  have the whole ATP crew Marco Arment John Siracusa and other one and in all [TS]

  cases less ya kisi less all three of them will be joining me on stage at the [TS]

  beginning of the show for the nerd nerd part we're going to talk about the day [TS]

  before his news the WBC and then and then my pal Scout simpson's gonna come [TS]

  on in and lighten up a little bit and Israel gas dr dre musical dress dr dre [TS]

  everybody will get a free pair Peter caught while that sounds fine I'm missin [TS]

  it but he told you I dot T O [TS]

  / during viral and if you're in Seattle come to the corner [TS]

  69 Tuesday in San Francisco so there will be at the show poking out marcia [TS]

  have one week in advance to make it gave tickets [TS]

  anything else that's good it feels like happy happy Memorial Day to you happy [TS]

  congratulations on the new gig always able to see you writing more I'm excited [TS]

  I kind of have had a lot of thoughts in my head over the last six months that [TS]

  have been too kind of busy / lazy to express and now I have to do it and can [TS]

  I just say a big picture I've been doing this for a while during fireball and [TS]

  even the talks I am more excited about what's going on in all the stuff that we [TS]

  talked about this year that I've been in a long time because I feel like I don't [TS]

  know I feel like there's a lot lot of turning point I agree I had less the [TS]

  last I would sail the list second half of last year I was super bored I just [TS]

  did not really I was almost offended by kind of how little progress was going on [TS]

  but I don't know what maybe maybe it's just the spring after a an awful winter [TS]

  but I'm really excited I think there's a lot of you know and and I hope I'm not [TS]

  disappointed by what ends up coming out of it but I think that Apple in [TS]

  particular and other companies Google Microsoft and Amazon and even Facebook [TS]

  and Twitter are in a position to really do some cool stuff now so I hope they [TS]

  don't disappoint I compared to 2007 when the iPad iPhone first came out and [TS]

  nobody knew it was awesome it's a little different cuz there's not one device [TS]

  that to me as cents entered our attention but there was a I didn't we [TS]

  just didn't know where it was going to go it was clearly going somewhere new [TS]

  but we couldn't tell where and i right [TS]

  coming but we didn't know how drastically [TS]

  knew I feel that way with the interface stuff for Mac OS 10 I feel that way with [TS]

  the health monitoring stuff that everybody says it's coming to iOS is so [TS]

  it's coming and it's feels like it's cool ideas but I can't tell where it's [TS]

  going and so I feel like it's it's a very exciting time to be writing about [TS]

  and talking about this stuff [TS]

  me too alright what they think you use the dot-com choosy and at from don't [TS]

  want to sound off and tell me I'm [TS]

  more on what we asked people we want them to send us their own programming on [TS]

  if you have any ideas for new tips for early voting stuff like that like ways [TS]

  that you can teach yourself programming on iOS thank you everyone [TS]

  yeah thanks to stop [TS]