The Talk Show

86: ‘Diddling Your Feeds’, With Dave Wiskus


  you got a bigger role on the show I don't doubt I would never really talked [TS]

  about it but you at you now have significantly I mean second to me maybe [TS]

  even more than me bigger role on the show I gotta tell you the the editing on [TS]

  your show lately has been outstanding so Dave whiskey is now does the editing of [TS]

  the show I don't we actually were just talking about this the other day I have [TS]

  actually never listened to it complete episode of talk-show I don't think I [TS]

  have a well when when I'm doing the Edit sometimes I'm just looking for you know [TS]

  where things overlap demanded by both the whole thing going and doing but the [TS]

  editing part I'm just looking for it's kind of like looking at the matrix how [TS]

  long does it take it a person of the talk show like a two-hour episode will [TS]

  take about two hours in real time [TS]

  about yeah I think most people takes usually about 1.5 bar code seems to say [TS]

  it takes him around three hours 44 natpe well that's if the show is more than two [TS]

  people a two-person show is pretty easy to add it because things don't you don't [TS]

  you don't ever run into a situation where three people were trying to talk [TS]

  at the same time right now that's probably the biggest problem is because [TS]

  your your professional always has three people because it's you and Jamie and [TS]

  the guests and I pretty much have to listen to the show every second of the [TS]

  audio to make sure that things are right now it's sometimes people monologue a [TS]

  little bit and that gives me a chance to skip had a couple of seconds it's not [TS]

  like I'm listening to make sure that there and I was there I know what they [TS]

  said so I don't have to worry about content I'm listening for audio and when [TS]

  things overlap and make sure it's not weird background noise and stuff like [TS]

  that [TS]

  crosstalk is not as is a big problem with three people yet and it's it's you [TS]

  know someone person will stop talking and then the other two might go to say [TS]

  something and you get that that handshake thing of oh no sorry go ahead [TS]

  no you go ahead it's weird I'm in a weird position that I [TS]

  well I'm not on it I don't listen to that many podcasts [TS]

  trying to listen more but my my my percentage of average week that I'm [TS]

  recording a podcast is pretty close to the percentage of a week that I listen [TS]

  to podcasts so I'm like very very close to being you know recording as many [TS]

  podcasts I listen to at least I'm wise because I can listen to more than I [TS]

  required to listen in like 1.5 X and whenever I'm on a show especially not [TS]

  the show but like a special guest on some other show like with you know a guy [TS]

  to bug like we were a couple weeks ago when we're recording a crosstalk always [TS]

  gets to me and I think that was horrible I tried to say something clearly it was [TS]

  like the second or so of latency with Skype and somebody else had already [TS]

  started talking and it it is very difficult to auto corrected for the [TS]

  guests to auto correct that like you would in real life we are recording [TS]

  around the table you can make eye contact like a raise your finger I've [TS]

  got a point to make but once it starts on a Skype recorded show it seems like [TS]

  everybody wants to be polite and stop but then that's you know I mean yeah and [TS]

  it seems like this could be solved the software either I guess there's an [TS]

  argument to be made for it everybody just does skype video then you're [TS]

  looking at each other but that doesn't quite cover now I guess you could do [TS]

  with being where somebody clicks a button and they raised their hands on a [TS]

  WebEx this but you're not here not really looking at each other with the [TS]

  webcam looking at the camera and everybody who looks at your video feed [TS]

  sees you the same way as opposed to you know if you're literally around the [TS]

  table and you're talking I can specifically point to you and be like [TS]

  you know I've got some dad yeah it's never gonna be the same as it is sit [TS]

  around a table and it always shows to cause I know why I remember thinking it [TS]

  was a strikingly good podcast was the episode of debug debug I have so many [TS]

  got themselves but it was the one that [TS]

  they recorded the day after the WBC count or maybe it was the day but it was [TS]

  they but they went to Macworld office and used borrowed Mac world's podcast [TS]

  studio yeah and they had so many gas they had they cannot like six or seven [TS]

  people I am a 70 is a bunch of really smart people you know Ryan Iranians and [TS]

  I nelson rose on trance resign you know as a bit more than Africa but it was [TS]

  great and I just had this is gonna be crazy they're gonna be crossed talking [TS]

  over each other but because they were in the same room it was actually remarkably [TS]

  well-organized a modified by the fact that guy and Renee and then Ryan and [TS]

  reinsert just the nicest people in nobody's gonna try to be a jerk in their [TS]

  room so you edit the podcast now you're doing the editing for the talk show has [TS]

  it gone I mean it's it's adding I can only get it forces me to listen to the [TS]

  show the forces me to listen to the show in a different way like you I don't [TS]

  spend a ton of time listening to podcasts and that I don't want to it's [TS]

  that I don't have a commute I don't have liked that time every day where I that [TS]

  would be my habit so having having somebody else's show it at it so [TS]

  unprofessional have done that from us two years I edit the TV show the things [TS]

  they do it for now but that's like I was there during recording so it's not the [TS]

  same kind of listening so interesting to listen and try to make editorial choices [TS]

  while it goes rather than having a list in my head of things I just need a [TS]

  knockout and then the other thing you're doing so we talk about the standard by [TS]

  which I mean it's weird like its a secret but we haven't talked about it is [TS]

  you're also [TS]

  handling the sponsorships for the show when people want to sponsor the show [TS]

  they're really they're going to get in contact with you right but it's weird [TS]

  it's we are sort of maybe it's probably my fault where the transition transition [TS]

  from you all to hosting an enduring fireball was sort of one weird thing at [TS]

  a time and now it's like we're up off the air and it's working and nobody's [TS]

  complaining at all I don't have any complaints so it seems like the feed [TS]

  keeps working you know how cloud hosting has worked just fine [TS]

  nobody really seems to have mister B download numbers are completely on par [TS]

  with where they were [TS]

  I'll say this about editing it's forced me to re-evaluate audio quality people [TS]

  more pills and your show them my show and so suddenly after care about how how [TS]

  well encoded in mp3 or so change my workflow there why do you why do you use [TS]

  mp3 instead of you know I really thought about it babe I my assumption is that [TS]

  mp3 it can be the thing that the most people would be able to play yeah that's [TS]

  what I would too that's why I've always gone with that I guess I didn't choose [TS]

  with your when I was with me all that was just sent a Mario and and the [TS]

  podcast one up and there was no choice but they would do you know the show's [TS]

  been mp3 as long as I can remember I think ATP those EAC that wouldn't [TS]

  surprise me that something America thing to do [TS]

  seems like something I would do too I don't know I would be very surprised if [TS]

  the percentage of people who listen to the talk show who would have a problem [TS]

  if I switched from mp3 to AAC if it was more than one percent when we can [TS]

  certainly try it now what's the point I kind of like mp3 is the one that also [TS]

  going to be most likely to be listening listenable 200 years mp3 is like its own [TS]

  brand people know it mp3 is even on computer people know it mp3 is a AC [TS]

  might have some technical you know [TS]

  we're at the same sort of stupid things to argue about 10 years ago we're at the [TS]

  same rate you know you can get a couple you know twenty percent more songs but [TS]

  now it's like nobody nobody cares about that whole point was that at a certain [TS]

  point when the iPod switch from mp3 to m4r added AAC support and the iTunes [TS]

  Store is using AC they went from like like five gigabytes was what you needed [TS]

  for a thousand songs to 4 gigabytes because the same quality by somebody is [TS]

  clearly subjective measurement you know you can have the same quality of audio [TS]

  and save 20% on storage my matter little bit more because the podcast is a lot [TS]

  longer than a song and people are downloading these things nowadays mostly [TS]

  over the air right and people want to and a lot of cases download them over [TS]

  cellular call the podcast clients have to negotiate a sort of tricky set of [TS]

  preferences in manual controls so that you're not downloading over cellular [TS]

  without knowing that you're doing it because you could blow right through the [TS]

  data cap easily yeah that would be a rude awakening you've run out of date [TS]

  and it's all right forecasts for you know and do go overseas or something [TS]

  like that and the data cap might be expensive [TS]

  be very small right like 50 bucks for 250 megabytes well that might be the [TS]

  whole you know you know one episode of the show might be too but you want to [TS]

  enable it to some people do want that some people might have if you have any [TS]

  gigabyte Verizon monthly plan you might want to download or you know just you [TS]

  know you really might do some people who really do want that iPhone to just treat [TS]

  wifi and cellular identically yeah I'm never when I'm at home come anywhere [TS]

  near my data plan but when I travel time I got rising and does that thing after [TS]

  after a hundred megs or something like that created as it charges you another [TS]

  $25 if I'm gone for two weeks I've spent like to $300 and data yeah I don't think [TS]

  I spent the whole time and there is always wifi [TS]

  maybe that was it although now that I mention this to you in making a note to [TS]

  myself I don't think I did that then I was supposed to do which was every time [TS]

  I go to Verizon before I go over the country and I add to my plan the 250 [TS]

  megabytes for 20 bucks thing for international data but then you like a [TS]

  month later when your next bill comes you gotta go on and turn it off [TS]

  otherwise you're paying for it every month yeah may or may not have just paid [TS]

  foreign man I just got a few days ago and I saw that is still on there from [TS]

  April or whenever where there is it's funny because he used to I know last [TS]

  year did that thing you do the things we get the temporary SIM card because you [TS]

  go over to the Amsterdam to write what you doing over there to do the two SIM [TS]

  card thing or do you just pay Verizon when I was living there what I did was I [TS]

  went to the tmobile store and it's like 10 10 euros or something 441 gave data [TS]

  and that's pretty cheap and you can run on a gig for about a month of just no [TS]

  normal daily checking Twitter and stuff like that so I just used a tmobile sim [TS]

  when I was over there for a longer term if this is gonna be a week or something [TS]

  I'll stick with rising and deal with the ridiculous data charges and iMessage the [TS]

  way that I messaged bridges SMS though is it gets screwy when you change your [TS]

  phone number with the woods and put it with putting a temporary SIM card right [TS]

  suddenly those messages that should be going to your phone number are now going [TS]

  who knows where right and you might be sending messages from a phone number [TS]

  that you don't want people to ever sent you again in the future and right and [TS]

  you can [TS]

  you know you can usually usually when I'm sending somebody who I know how I [TS]

  prefer to send address it to their email address rather than their phone number [TS]

  as I feel like it's more permanent but I don't know I just remember that the year [TS]

  before I ran it all sorts of it was great price wise getting a temporary SIM [TS]

  card it was like more data than I could use while I was in Ireland for very very [TS]

  reasonable price but it was very confusing I message was it's a it's a [TS]

  big hassle my when I was living over in Amsterdam my my nightly ritual my [TS]

  routine was that when I get home I would pop the sim out but my old sim in and [TS]

  give it five minutes to see if any messages came in and then stop them back [TS]

  I don't know what to suggest Apple because it's such a weird edge case and [TS]

  I don't want to suggest I I but I want somehow be able to tell the i phone use [TS]

  this sim card only for data [TS]

  you know me just keep using my number yeah this is not a phone number just use [TS]

  this sim card for data gets it somehow that's the edge case where the way that [TS]

  we as a technical culture have conflated the legacy telephone network where you [TS]

  have this unique worldwide unique phone number with just give me the internet [TS]

  which is really all I want I have no desire whatsoever [TS]

  0 ever to use the actual phone or text messaging with a temporary SIM card all [TS]

  I want is IP networking and there's but there's no way to tell the iPhone it [TS]

  seems like I don't know if this is iowa 7 I was a but lately when I have to do [TS]

  something like that it still says my phone number so I don't know if maybe [TS]

  they've changed it to where the phone number can linger even if you get rid of [TS]

  your city how does it work with the iPad when you have a cellular iPad you do [TS]

  have a phone number they get it says it like when you go into your settings to [TS]

  deal with you know whatever carrier is that you have it tells you a phone or [TS]

  SIM card for an iPad has a phone number but I don't think you can ever received [TS]

  text messages at that number no man can't imagine that's probably just like [TS]

  a [TS]

  I don't know a function of it being a SIM card so I don't know I guess it's [TS]

  not a confusing I guess so I guess what I want is a way to tell an iPhone to go [TS]

  into iPad load and this use of this sim card only for data there's also an [TS]

  argument to be made for give me two sim slots yeah but that's confusing because [TS]

  I don't want people sending text messages while I'm out of the country [TS]

  because it's a sign that much money but it's you know it's annoying if somebody [TS]

  who actually has like an Android phone send you a text cause I don't know your [TS]

  country and you paid two dollars just to receive it [TS]

  get for talking with us people in any way back to the matter talk about the [TS]

  show so so one reason I would never come up you know that you were down selling [TS]

  the show the sponsorships for this show and your show and rents and and Chris [TS]

  paris's show I've never read reason to bring it up is that this shows [TS]

  sponsorships have been sold out for a while and they're still so that I think [TS]

  the delay we're recording right now on June 30 and they're sold out through [TS]

  August right yeah there's nothing open in the last week of August so there's [TS]

  been no reason to publicize it but for anybody who's curious if you're out [TS]

  there you listen I've never had to bring this up before does it take to shows you [TS]

  know lucky enough that it's been sold out and we have so many repeat sponsors [TS]

  who keep buying up spots but anybody has ever been curious you have a product or [TS]

  something he thought maybe I should sponsor the talk show you can go to [TS]

  standard with a recall in standard . FM is the website ya go to standard and go [TS]

  from there and then you can show yeah it's pretty much it ends with people [TS]

  emailing me not a podcast never know we're very careful about that there's a [TS]

  I think there's so much discussion going into this about how can we do this [TS]

  without being another podcast now it's just a way to its like the one aspect of [TS]

  a podcast network that that we wanted which is [TS]

  that way less work for one person to sell sponsorships from multiple shows [TS]

  than it is for each show to book their own sponsorships really what it came [TS]

  down to it I realized with me having to sell my own spots for unprofessional [TS]

  just made sense and you were gonna be leaving you land and everybody had one [TS]

  problem like all of us that are we all had the same problems as well you know [TS]

  what I'm doing it from mine would it be easier it probably would be easier if I [TS]

  have I could go to sponsors and say well we're a group and make other things [TS]

  happen [TS]

  yeah it's just a lot and it's one of those things where that a little bit of [TS]

  collectivism saves a lot of work yet and I mean there's a sort of tangible [TS]

  benefit to Q branch to where I if if brent is working on code and not [TS]

  worrying about how he's gonna sell sponsorship for his podcasters website [TS]

  then that's an upside for us take that moment and thank our first sponsor to [TS]

  good friends [TS]

  speaking of repeat sponsors are good friend of Warby Parker Warby Parker was [TS]

  founded with the rebellious spirit and a lofty objective to create boutique [TS]

  quality classically crafted I were a revolutionary price point as I say go to [TS]

  work your partner he can get really cool I glasses at way less than what you [TS]

  would pay well as retail boutique places and at the cheap I boutique places [TS]

  you're not going to get glasses that look as partners it's that simple [TS]

  really they should not cost as much as an iPhone prescription glasses at Warby [TS]

  Parker started in ninety five bucks including the prescription lenses they [TS]

  have a titanium collection that starts at 1:45 if you go shopping for [TS]

  eyeglasses recently you know those prices are way way they don't joke [TS]

  around with upsells on all the stuff you've won anyway like antireflective [TS]

  anti glare coating it comes to who doesn't want that who wants glare [TS]

  and reflections on their glasses could have easily Scotland's is giving the [TS]

  glasses that are made out of that plastic that they made the first iPod [TS]

  nanos [TS]

  where if you look at it funny they get scratched no of course not you want all [TS]

  the good stuff and this is the thing and I have heard this before but it really [TS]

  works you think while wait I do care about all my classes like I care of my [TS]

  face I don't know how can i buy these things over the internet and get a pair [TS]

  of glasses that are gonna look good on me because you know you might see a pair [TS]

  on web pages and what that looks cool but you don't have a good idea well [TS]

  they've got a couple of things they've got like a webcam type thing where you [TS]

  can and it works pretty amazingly well we just snap a picture of yourself in [TS]

  front of the webcam and then they they measure the stuff like your nose in your [TS]

  distance and you pick a pair of glasses and they like you know imposing over [TS]

  your face but the other thing that this is the big deal is that they have this [TS]

  try at home today you pick five pairs that you like they send them to you [TS]

  without prescription lenses trying to get a nice little box open it up there [TS]

  they are there is your five classes you can take him out try mine compared [TS]

  against each other already with a label to ship it right back to them if you [TS]

  like one of them you can just order right there say this is the one I like [TS]

  this one then they send it to you put the five samples back in box set up that [TS]

  already label send it right back [TS]

  couldn't be easier we just didn't hear my wife just got a pair of sunglasses [TS]

  from Warby Parker everything was exactly as described [TS]

  she got five pairs in a box to pick the one you like the most and like literally [TS]

  a couple days later they are with her prescription lenses couldn't be easier [TS]

  really really happy and if anything she's picking a time that the pretty [TS]

  brilliant setup yeah it really is and and I think it's no surprise that [TS]

  so many people I know so many people who have classes from them and I've never [TS]

  heard anybody said you know everybody's really really happy with it so where do [TS]

  you go to find out easy Warby Parker dot com slash the talk-show Warby Parker dot [TS]

  com slash the talk-show recommend them very highly go check them out to those [TS]

  work with Google ask you no then I don't think it do yet but you did you joke [TS]

  they were mentioned though at some point like a year ago they were mentioned as a [TS]

  partner that was helping to protect by you know stylized class I don't know if [TS]

  that fell through or if it still could be the last week they key after a [TS]

  drummer who was it it's some fashion brand that I don't recall off the top of [TS]

  my head that they did release a bunch of designer frames for Google glass I can't [TS]

  remember Diane something that's that's close enough and you know they just look [TS]

  really really like Google did everything wrong with you can do it right i mean [TS]

  when you have like a two inch by one inch battery pack behind her right ear [TS]

  you know there's not much you can do it looks like you wanna go to last we have [TS]

  a hearing problem I guess I would argue that I hope the grass always looks like [TS]

  Google glass so I can spot it you know what that's too complicated and talked [TS]

  about this with people on the show before where it let's face it though [TS]

  that's not going to happen and I like like just in terms of of being a [TS]

  technical damn Google glass is is in the grand scheme of technology is you know [TS]

  it's amazing it's like jet jet packs and flying cars it's something you've always [TS]

  thought about as a kid as you could put head-up display in front of your eyes in [TS]

  real life and it's you know in the grand scheme of things pretty small and [TS]

  real-world practical use it's nowhere near small enough to be unnoticeable [TS]

  but if that's where we are today in 2014 or where we were in 2012 I guess what [TS]

  came out you know I don't think it's gonna be shocking if ten years from now [TS]

  you can make a pair of glass that doesn't look different from a pair of [TS]

  regular eyeglasses and I'm sure I mean look at our house how much smaller [TS]

  cameras have gotten i mean the camera seems like it'd probably be easier part [TS]

  to make indistinguishable to somehow hide in the frame of the glasses [TS]

  really comes down to the battery even the heads of the display part there's [TS]

  other things they can do to either build that into your your eyeglass lens or [TS]

  what they do in cars for the projection something yeah I agree the battery is [TS]

  probably a bigger bigger challenge and the display part I don't somehow the [TS]

  figure out a way to make it so that it's it's integrated in the lands as opposed [TS]

  to a weird things to come out and you know it's gonna be a weird thing when [TS]

  you don't know whether people are recording you are not I think I think [TS]

  it's a foolish to think that we're not gonna have to deal with that in our [TS]

  lifetimes clearly coming is it is it maybe they were old fuddy-duddy is when [TS]

  we came from an era before this and it's going to be just like [TS]

  I don't know at the gas station where we don't think about that we don't feel [TS]

  like that's invasion of privacy maybe I kid born today by the time they're old [TS]

  enough they're never gonna think of something like Google glasses being [TS]

  invasive yeah I think so I think it's something like that where it it just [TS]

  becomes part of the world around you and you accept you have to accept it because [TS]

  you don't have a choice you know I think that if you went back thirty or forty [TS]

  years and told people about a world where everybody can send and receive [TS]

  phone calls anywhere they are at any point dinner car anywhere you can just [TS]

  always be reached your phone is ringing any time you can always call us anytime [TS]

  to dinner and talking on the phone at tables near you they would say that [TS]

  sounds I would think they would have a similar reaction to the way I feel about [TS]

  people being able to record me at any time [TS]

  yeah yeah probably I think you know if version of me that would have been my [TS]

  age now then we'll probably have an anxiety attack the thought of that [TS]

  yeah it's an appealing and I said I but I'm a person who thinks it relatively [TS]

  unappealing to get phone calls you know I mean I tend to not answer my phone [TS]

  usually so and I don't get them 'cause period anyway you know from person now [TS]

  and even someone who want to talk to you like my dad calls me I like talking to a [TS]

  couple times a week and talk about baseball or whatever but if I'm like out [TS]

  if I'm like waiting in line at the supermarket pay and my dad cause we are [TS]

  just gonna send a right to voicemail call home [TS]

  like I think it's crazy when people do things like pick up the phone when you [TS]

  know for something that's not an immediate you know I give you get a call [TS]

  from your kids school where you want to answer that right away cause who knows [TS]

  maybe its emergency but if it's just my dad calling I mean why would I take that [TS]

  phone call in the supermarket kills me is the people who will answer the phone [TS]

  when they're in the passenger seat of a car I have ever seen that [TS]

  it's it's just rude cuz if you have a driver you're you're now trapped in a [TS]

  situation where you're you're somebody chauffeured you're listening to one half [TS]

  of a conversation at this weird yeah we're like you know people are out to [TS]

  you know it's like a table for four [TS]

  restaurant and somebody just answers random starts talking it seems very [TS]

  strange to view larger baseball game at dinner [TS]

  yeah but I don't turn the volume up you don't you don't think there's a similar [TS]

  sort of thing happening there were there is no there's the the rudeness of [TS]

  causing noise disturb other people and then there's the how how engaged are you [TS]

  with the people around you as I can criticizing use its point taken [TS]

  you know it's probably not the most played 10 that I do I don't do it all [TS]

  the time ya know then that i think is really that different from somebody [TS]

  checking Twitter at the table or whatever it's it's it's it's all on a [TS]

  spectrum and then way and if you went back and talked about it go back twenty [TS]

  thirty years it all seems pretty rude and you know that the devices are [TS]

  driving more attention than other people around us at the baseball thing it's a [TS]

  comical example of something that we all do well I'll check your phone even if [TS]

  it's just a my my phone buzzed in my pocket no excuse myself for my most [TS]

  polite I'm still ignoring somebody for a minute yeah and we're all a little [TS]

  hypocritical about it where the things that we love most about waterfront lez [TS]

  do we think are ok and the things we don't care about our route so I don't [TS]

  like talking on the phone I don't get many phone calls so I'll blather on [TS]

  about how rude it is that people talk on the phone but I love watching Yankees [TS]

  and so you know I think being able to watch the Yankees game while I is [TS]

  amazing technology so I admit that but I admit I have the self-awareness to admit [TS]

  that I'm being a hypocrite to present it that way I wish that Verizon would give [TS]

  me 20 minutes plan thirty minutes but I use about 35 minutes a month I would [TS]

  happily pay less I don't even know what we get we use a lot we've shared pool in [TS]

  Amite speaks on the phone [TS]

  but we don't think we coming close to using all the minutes I think that the [TS]

  we're at the point even know even if he uses her phone even close to using any [TS]

  you know what they gave us the crazy based on measurement yeah like AOL yeah [TS]

  I mean does anybody is there anybody who needs like extra minutes I guess are [TS]

  some people who have a job that they're really truly on the phone all the time [TS]

  real estate agent or something like that you know that some jobs you really are [TS]

  on your cell phone making phone calls all day every day but I don't know they [TS]

  have to pay extra for that it just seems like everybody has unlimited plans some [TS]

  people have the $100 just for the phone part of it or something but you get [TS]

  effectively or literally unlimited talk time it why not make that the standard I [TS]

  don't know maybe just a holdover from the fact that they're kind of a there in [TS]

  their moving into just being a dumb carrier at this point speaking of rude [TS]

  and callous behavior to see this thing you had to see it came out over the [TS]

  weekend that Facebook had been running a psychological experiment where they took [TS]

  a 600,000 700,000 users and half of them they randomly tried to algorithmically [TS]

  make their feed a little happier and the other half they tried to make it a [TS]

  little sadder and then tried to measure with like certain keywords like through [TS]

  for the remainder of the week were the things that those people those two pools [TS]

  posted a little did indicated they were in better or worse moods and the answer [TS]

  was yes that actually did seem to have some sort of effect on their mood that [TS]

  the people whose bid was to make them happier seem to be happier and then 12 [TS]

  hurdled to [TS]

  and I guess I i mean this in turn I got some feedback on Twitter and an email [TS]

  from people saying that it's it's not helpful for me to say I'm I did Justin [TS]

  my responses I'm surprised that people are surprised and I'm with you on that [TS]

  because this is what Facebook does so for example compare and contrast to if [TS]

  the same thing had been announced about twitter twitter is screwy company and I [TS]

  don't quite get their strategy I think that the people who run Twitter are not [TS]

  very good at Twitter or they're not very good at seeing what Twitter is good for [TS]

  but if this had come out about Twitter I would have been very I would have been [TS]

  surprised because it doesn't sound like something Twitter would do and I would [TS]

  have been surprised and I think it would have been appalled you know I would but [TS]

  it would seem out of character for Twitter incorporated to do something [TS]

  like this [TS]

  whereas that bad to me is my point my point isn't to be so cynical is to [TS]

  assume that all companies are doing stuff like that nobody should be [TS]

  outraged about Facebook here because this is what they do what i'm saying is [TS]

  open your eyes this is what Facebook does time and time again and I think [TS]

  that's it [TS]

  distinction I think the Twitter it would not surprise me if we found out they [TS]

  were doing things with your night with your stream but evaluating your stream [TS]

  for advertising might even do that now I don't know but anything anything about [TS]

  that they get a googly sort of way [TS]

  looking at your stuff and then using that to decide what other stuff they [TS]

  show you I by that I don't be offended by that but trying to manipulate me [TS]

  emotionally I don't know though maybe and I people you know I don't want to be [TS]

  too callous about it and I think it clearly shows [TS]

  makes Facebook as a corporation come across as incredibly cows it's really no [TS]

  doubt about it but some people like it sounds like you're one of them really [TS]

  feel like anything [TS]

  related to attempting to manipulate people's emotions is just crossing the [TS]

  sort of at the goal line that that should not be crossed [TS]

  whereas I would say isn't every advertisement in an attempt to [TS]

  manipulate people emotionally I i agree with that and I would say that it's not [TS]

  the it's not that they're trying to manipulate me emotionally it's that [TS]

  they're willing to manipulate me emotionally in a negative way if there [TS]

  if they're all true my timeline to try to make me happier if it works great if [TS]

  they're true my timeline to try to make me sad that's not okay yeah but you [TS]

  can't do the science without having like a control group I'm not trying to defend [TS]

  it I'm just saying I can kind of see their perspective if your gonna be sick [TS]

  bastards see to me the part that defensive is is is not that they tried [TS]

  to make some sadness I'm happy it I I don't think that they tried to make [TS]

  rupaul suicide I haven't read enough details I would like to i'd be curious [TS]

  to see if you were in one of the two groups what the difference would be like [TS]

  here's what you're for example users feed would've looked like if they [TS]

  weren't chosen for it at all [TS]

  well they probably do things like if you're if you're single they're gonna [TS]

  show you lots of posts of people getting married and having babies and so can [TS]

  make you feel better relationship emphasize other peoples relationships [TS]

  are some things out and exactly but I'm curious I haven't seen a lot of details [TS]

  about exactly how they did the manipulation [TS]

  the guy who did it just wrote a response I haven't read it yet but apparently I [TS]

  mean he's gone on record as saying here's here's why we did we did it just [TS]

  it there's a certain tone deafness to them that they that they seem to be [TS]

  surprised there are people reacting this way because it's not like this was a [TS]

  secret internal project that had a whistleblower leaked it on paper they [TS]

  published in a real scientific journal you know they published it they were [TS]

  proud of the science behind in their minds that people would be grossed out [TS]

  by the raid that that this might be something they [TS]

  wouldn't want to tell people that they're doing like there is obviously a [TS]

  very strange culture their Facebook that it never even occurred to them that [TS]

  people might be offended by this I mean a/b testing with people's mental health [TS]

  that's the kind of thing that I don't know me if if they like to opt in like [TS]

  here's a new program we're doing well you did but that's what they're saying [TS]

  is that everybody every single user of Facebook has opted-in [TS]

  in that if you read their privacy statement [TS]

  that there is you know clearly you know there's an some people have even called [TS]

  it out there is even you know I did even specifically says that some about [TS]

  research you know who reads that nobody cuz it's ok and it is super long and [TS]

  they probably show it to you in like six point type but it is there and that part [TS]

  of the argument is that everybody has hasn't coached you know he can you [TS]

  imagine Apple doing something like that and saying well if you would have read [TS]

  that iTunes update agreement that was all there but I think the the most [TS]

  upsetting part to me it's like as a designer I think to myself though the [TS]

  way the part of why I think that would never do something like this is Twitter [TS]

  you're seeing the stream and the value is in having all of that data the value [TS]

  to you like there's an expectation that all of the tweets are gonna be there and [TS]

  Facebook's approaches you're not you're not a Facebook user so I guess you don't [TS]

  get to see this have to happen I'm really anxious to sign up now but they [TS]

  do a thing where they don't show you a timeline they show you it's kind of a [TS]

  timeline but they order it however they want right and so when you when you open [TS]

  the Facebook app on your phone it pushes you to the top [TS]

  it's going to go top or it leaves you in the same spot you would like a sort of [TS]

  Jackie tap here to load more kind of a thing but I go to the top like there's [TS]

  no rhyme or reason to why the things are ordered the way they are they do it the [TS]

  thing is the top isn't the newest thing and it doesn't even seem to be the most [TS]

  important to most interesting and and my guess is that the manipulation is that [TS]

  right and maybe they make things that they their algorithm says hey this seems [TS]

  like something is going to make Dave feel good you know I don't know somebody [TS]

  like a friend who is on vacation in this algorithm likely looks like happy [TS]

  photograph was gonna make Dave feel good blood put the photograph radio at the [TS]

  top you know yet and it bothers me that they would make editorial decisions [TS]

  about what I do and do not see when I have intentionally befriended or [TS]

  followed all of these people would suggest that my behavior was suggested I [TS]

  wanna see all of those things like meet you [TS]

  and it does seem III and I do think I think maybe that's the core of what [TS]

  really rubbed people the wrong way here maybe is gonna give this scandal some [TS]

  legs maybe is is the fact that they tried to make people feel that you [TS]

  mentioned that specifically right it would be different too if what they did [TS]

  was if they tried three different algorithms to make people feel better [TS]

  about themselves and group a workgroup be it didn't see it actually had the [TS]

  detrimental effect and made rights groups feel bad they didn't try to do it [TS]

  but it ends up that if you only show them pictures of such and such that it [TS]

  actually makes them feel bad and you can you imagine the headlines there's also a [TS]

  Facebook and make you happier right as opposed to the fact that they set out to [TS]

  me to make people feel some some group of people feel a little worse Facebook [TS]

  intentionally one in some part of its user base to be less happy than the fact [TS]

  that that's part of what would make what four years has kept me from using [TS]

  facebook like even wanting to sign up is that I just don't get it i dont get what [TS]

  in the field whereas I i especially old Twitter like but unlike the Twitter they [TS]

  still mostly get through third-party clients is I know exactly what's gonna [TS]

  be in my feed its the tweet from the people I've chosen to follow ordered in [TS]

  the order that they've sent them [TS]

  chronological list of tweets from people who I have decided to follow and I know [TS]

  it in my mentioned dream people who typed at River in the order that they've [TS]

  sent those tweets talked about and I know exactly what that is and I know [TS]

  what they're going to look like and it's it's theirs I can integrity to it [TS]

  whereas to me that this the Facebook what it would you call it the feed feed [TS]

  him there's no integrity to it if if it's arbitrarily you know ordered in [TS]

  I don't get it that it to me it seems like why would i SAT there and then [TS]

  there's an inner circle you see in me that once I just want to know the rules [TS]

  right I want to know the rules for what this is going to be yeah exactly that's [TS]

  my biggest complaint as a Facebook user right I mean I guess I have a complete [TS]

  my biggest is that I just don't know what i'm looking at I like my email [TS]

  inbox I know exactly what it is somebody knows my email address type in the email [TS]

  to that address and they've sent it and then it comes in and my mail client will [TS]

  display those messages chronological order giving Facebook does like that is [TS]

  they they surely this list of people you may know and I get a lecture one out of [TS]

  two hundred I actually now I don't know who it is too close to it and does that [TS]

  for me and it's actually pretty remarkable because I like and I see it a [TS]

  lot like when I'm checking the daring fireball account is the daring fireball [TS]

  account doesn't follow anybody and they'll say hey maybe you want to start [TS]

  following people how about these people be like Amy Krueger Brent Simmons and [TS]

  you know yeah exactly that's actually pretty good to get those people [TS]

  yeah I need to take a spider and thank our second puncher and we'll move on we [TS]

  get to the real part of the show I want to thank our good friends at transporter [TS]

  that's the company name is connected data they've responded to show before [TS]

  basic idea you buy a little bit hardware from them to call the transporter set up [TS]

  a home network install a little bit of software on your Mac and all of a sudden [TS]

  you've got effectively your own little private Dropbox folder on your Mac put [TS]

  files in the folder they get synced to the transporter little device with [TS]

  stories on it in your house now here's where it gets more interesting it's only [TS]

  stored on the transporter there is no cloud storage the cloud is only use [TS]

  add for negotiating from your network in other words bridging through your home [TS]

  router and stuff like that the actual data storage is only written to disk on [TS]

  your device you can buy more than one device you can have one at your home or [TS]

  office [TS]

  one in two different locations and they come up to the same account and they'll [TS]

  do exactly what you think they'll do just sink together and both be complete [TS]

  copies of each other so you can find other transport users and you can do [TS]

  things like setup shared folders and say here's a folder on my transporter share [TS]

  it with Dave whiskas and now we both have access to that folder and we both [TS]

  know here's where the datastore destroyed on my transporter and your [TS]

  transporter because their shared folders between us and that's a big big [TS]

  difference between sharing stuff in the cloud and for some people a lot of you I [TS]

  know this I've heard of people who listen to the show for legal reasons a [TS]

  lot of people people work in the medical industry and I'm sure other places where [TS]

  there's NDA's and stuff like that [TS]

  you legally are not allowed to share certain data on devices were you don't [TS]

  have complete control over the device you can't put things on something like [TS]

  iCloud or Dropbox because its legal implications as to where you can store [TS]

  the data really works great [TS]

  really really different from the cloud storage applications so if you need that [TS]

  for you want it just for the privacy implications of it even just for your [TS]

  own personal privacy there's nothing else like it on the market they have two [TS]

  main ways to go about it the regular transporter models come with your choice [TS]

  500 gigabyte one terabyte two terabyte capacities you can go they use this code [TS]

  TTS 10 pts the talk show 10 and you'll save 10% off your purchase of any one of [TS]

  those devices up to 35 bucks go to File transporter filed transporter [TS] and you can buy one the other thing you can do though is you can [TS]

  provide your own USB Drive any USB Drive [TS]

  and you can buy it more like a little puck durable little thing called the [TS]

  transporter sink and it's the same functionality exact same functionality [TS]

  but you just pick your own USB hard drives you maybe even have a USB hard [TS]

  drive sitting around her office that you can already use you can save 20 bucks on [TS]

  one of those costs a lot less forget about percentages just save 20 bucks use [TS]

  this code TTS 20 all orders using those two coats TTS 10 TTS 20 get free [TS]

  shipping and no lasting here's a lasting are you wondering if transporters rape [TS]

  you here's the thing by one start using it and for 30 days [TS]

  completely risk-free satisfaction guarantee so use those codes pts 10 TDS [TS]

  2002 file transporter check it out by the one you want you have 30 days [TS]

  you don't like it just send it right back to my thanks to transport by one [TS]

  and just stick it in a corner an Apple store not tell anybody that the first [TS]

  made a different one day long on how long that lasts about know about that [TS]

  there's a sort of about it wouldn't last bit past the end of the day I'm sure [TS]

  they do a sweep yeah because they have to clean up all the machines nonstop [TS]

  basis i mean i i think that there's a checklist procedure they go through to [TS]

  make each one like store closes at seven by by eight o'clock it's back in mint [TS]

  condition do you think that when they close down an Apple store before they [TS]

  open up the Apple store and I mean like permanently morning and evening do you [TS]

  think they wipe down the the devices yeah I mean I mean physically I do I [TS]

  found they clean up the fingerprints for the day I think they do it throughout [TS]

  the day would be better I've never seen them do it now while I think that's part [TS]

  of the magic you know [TS]

  I think they've got like at disney world they've got like things were said I call [TS]

  in a trash around the park they just likes sucking through holes in florida [TS]

  go into the underground tunnels so they don't have to see the trash being that [TS]

  it's a nice touch base of the main reasons I actually wanted to run the [TS]

  show is the one big thing [TS]

  from the BBC that's left on my things i wanna talk or write about that I haven't [TS]

  talked or written about is Yosemite and a new design of Yosemite and you know I [TS]

  thought to have you on the show because you and I are in fact collaborating [TS]

  working on a Mac at the summer so we're sort of in the middle of it now wow what [TS]

  a month in month out for weeks since from WC yeah yeah yeah yeah I guess it [TS]

  was the second so it's 4 weeks are you using yosemite daily no I tried in there [TS]

  is some kind of bug with the upgrades have got to have a second partition [TS]

  setup that's running a clean install of Use Somebody and that was running great [TS]

  I decided okay maybe all my stuff works everything should be fine I'm installed [TS]

  on my main partition and I did and it was a nightmare and things were things [TS]

  were broken and I don't mean nightmare like there are some bugs and things [TS]

  crashed I mean like finder wouldn't watch yeah if I wanted to open a file [TS]

  had to do it through Terminal and that took 45 seconds to load so I can [TS]

  announce back and forth they need to look at you I stuff I need to try to [TS]

  evaluate the way they're doing a thing for the big day today I'm still running [TS]

  Mavericks it i got really excited about it cause for a couple of days it seems [TS]

  so stable that I thought hey I think I can switch full-time quickly maybe like [TS]

  what the next beta and then I ran into a thing where I could not log into my main [TS]

  account that I just created I could use a Guest account and then from the guest [TS]

  account on terminal I could like use sudo with my admin account but there is [TS]

  nothing I can do to log into the admin account and and then it fixed itself [TS]

  somehow but it was scary enough that we could always do a backup and then run [TS]

  the upgrade for a week and if you don't like it switchback yeah I think I'll [TS]

  probably switch on the next page and at least I still have a machine here [TS]

  running my old install of Mavericks and with everything on it but everything I [TS]

  so much thinks it's so much easier to to to use multiple Macs now with iCloud [TS]

  syncing services that it's it's not like the old days where it was really really [TS]

  you just driving not because there's violence on the other machine and I [TS]

  still can't do it I can't get my head around it and that might just be the [TS]

  time to use to doing things the old way of running on two machines yeah I can I [TS]

  have to have one Mac if I have to then I cloud in Dropbox make it better but then [TS]

  there's like still preferences per machine I forget about the other thing [TS]

  is that I don't think it is imperative to be using it on a daily basis [TS]

  design wise because I don't think it's that radical design you know it's a [TS]

  month to month has gone on [TS]

  I'm happy with it almost completely apart some unhappy with I don't hear [TS]

  that big a deal where would you happy with where we can do about that okay but [TS]

  I don't like that we can come back to that in a second but I don't feel like [TS]

  it's fundamentally change the way design a good backup it's a new you know it it [TS]

  almost is only skin deep and I don't mean that as a complaint I think it [TS]

  speaks to you know if it's not broke don't fix it and try to you know what it [TS]

  means [TS]

  as opposed to iOS 7 which i think was more [TS]

  significantly more radical change in that you really needed to be using the [TS]

  iOS 7 pages on a daily basis to get a feel for how it should should be [TS]

  designed for Iowa seven last summer yet there is all the rumors leading up to [TS]

  WTC [TS]

  1010 is going to be a pretty dramatic makeover it's going to be very Iowa 7 as [TS]

  we kept very I was seven and we saw I was taken aback at how not Iowa said it [TS]

  was yeah I agree with that they look related but they look like siblings in [TS]

  other way that would sometimes you meet you know brother and a sister to kind of [TS]

  look alike but not like in a freaky way you know who is also playing to their [TS]

  own strengths yeah it feels like a very measured you know I maybe would have [TS]

  been a bigger surprise if there were no I was seven I think that I was 7 soften [TS]

  the blow [TS]

  maybe but I remember you and I talking about this when we were sort of trying [TS]

  to guess what you know somebody might look like the one thing we kept looking [TS]

  at hand and in some ways it was a true that would be kind of cool but then [TS]

  there are in other ways we were both like gritting our teeth like who this [TS]

  could be bad is the iCloud web apps yeah right so when you go to iCloud dot com [TS]

  on a Mac or Windows I guess but you get like you know you're using a mouse [TS]

  pointer using a track pattern mouse and physical keyboard or not touching the [TS]

  screen but it looks really I less Sevigny yeah but in a good way in a [TS]

  measured way where it does it's not I don't know if you're looking at the web [TS]

  at stuff it felt like a sort of a happy medium but you could you could [TS]

  start to get a sense of how they would solve some of these windowing problems [TS]

  caused an iOS you don't you never have to absolutely the same time you don't [TS]

  have to worry about one thing sitting in front [TS]

  another thing whereas on a Mac you always have that problem and it seemed [TS]

  like they were trying to hint at will we still have shadows were still treat [TS]

  these things as individual structures on the screen [TS]

  yeah but I think that that's why I'm looking at it now looking at iCloud mail [TS]

  and it looks way more like an iPad app then America and 200 yeah what's like [TS]

  the further you get in [TS]

  yeah I guess what I'm looking at is the things like if you go into contacts and [TS]

  you click to delete somebody it it feels it spits iOS 7 a.m. but it you you can [TS]

  start to see the hinting like the way the window alert thing comes up that [TS]

  information the way comes up in the weights on the screen that to me he [TS]

  answered what we wind up getting your somebody more than it feels like a [TS]

  direct translation of anything from iOS yeah well and the other thing the big [TS]

  difference to shoot is that iOS not I was the iCloud interface doesn't have a [TS]

  lot of like a lot of the buttons don't really have strong top-down States press [TS]

  and states the best way to call I was down but pressed state you know sort of [TS]

  like iOS whereas yosemite does he feel pretty good cause that's that's been a [TS]

  thing for you [TS]

  buttons that look like buttons has been my obsession and to me or somebody [TS]

  doesn't change at all like buttons all look like buttons in a way that I I [TS]

  really hope that I have to wait for nine now but I hope that I was nine takes [TS]

  some cues from that yeah there's such a weird place to to go from here but the [TS]

  the Google stuff kind of its showing them if you there [TS]

  the material you either well finish your point but let's come back to that right [TS]

  right it's to me is kind of a hint of in an alternate universe what I S nine [TS]

  might add rection that it could go in where it's a little bit more shadowy [TS]

  it's a little like a return not to scream or visit them but some kind of [TS]

  happy point between super flat and allowing the easy access to mean [TS]

  something I could see that the the right leg from to come back to some from five [TS]

  minute ago the one that one of the things I like about you somebody's I [TS]

  don't like if you have a dialogue box with canceling ok puns the OK button is [TS]

  already blue with white text but that the tap downstate for the cancel button [TS]

  so if you press the cancel button but don't let go then the two buttons look [TS]

  almost identical like right to me they picked a bad bad look for the default [TS]

  button to me the default button should look different from the other buttons [TS]

  but it shouldn't look as different as as the one in your somebody and it seems [TS]

  like what you would want to something that both indicates that this is [TS]

  selected but also some people are gonna hit the Return key on the keyboard [TS]

  rather than any other King conversely is so that if the cancel button or if [TS]

  there's more than one if you know any of the other regular but the ones they [TS]

  don't activate just by hitting return when you tap press and hold down the [TS]

  button you get this really vibrant press take it goes from a white background [TS]

  with black text to blue background with white text super vibrant difference from [TS]

  whether it's pressed Iran pressed whereas the default button goes from [TS]

  vibrant blue with white text to a slightly different shade of vibrant blue [TS]

  with white text it's it's an almost indistinguishable difference between [TS]

  Preston and pressed just seems like an unforced error on Apple's part 2 to do [TS]

  that and it's a super niggling thing for me to dwell on but it's one of those [TS]

  things where I can get even a month and we can get over you you can I don't know [TS]

  grousing about the buttons the top down state and buttons since I was seven came [TS]

  out I think even during the betas that's been [TS]

  thing for you and maybe a baby really is just driving I've isn't really thinking [TS]

  too much about the way buttons are pressed [TS]

  seems like it seems like I don't like I have a much bigger I put more important [TS]

  than than giant Apple does and even I think even more than I do like it's it's [TS]

  a good thing they care about but it's like I look at it is really bother me [TS]

  that much it's not the first thing I go to the reason I care about it is that to [TS]

  me it's the only real feedback you get like in the real world when you click a [TS]

  button [TS]

  there's no doubt in your mind when you've pressed it down and when you've [TS]

  let it go as you feel if it's a nice but with a quickness like the buttons on all [TS]

  the buttons on the iPhone right here a member got the iPhone in my hand [TS]

  pressing the volume buttons and they click I know when I press it down cuz it [TS]

  clicked and I know I never let go cuz it clicks the other way whereas when you're [TS]

  pressing things on screen especially on the iPhone to meet him more important [TS]

  than the iPhone it's like you don't feel any click there is no haptic feedback [TS]

  and you know who knows maybe that's where they're going with new devices [TS]

  later this calendar years haptic feedback but then why did they change [TS]

  the year ago [TS]

  you know I know I i remember last year during the summer a lot of people [TS]

  speculated that the decrease in visual feedback on press states for buttons [TS]

  might be a lot of people were guessing there'd be haptic feedback in the iPhone [TS]

  5s and is not so to me that visual feedback is all you get [TS]

  and so to me it's worth emphasizing when we rebuild we are playing with some of [TS]

  those they had that press room replay with the phone stuff they a lot of the [TS]

  I think most of them if not all of them had haptic feedback so you'd have [TS]

  something it would give you like a little bit of a buzz in playing with it [TS]

  I realized it's just it's not the magic that I thought it was where the thing [TS]

  right into my fingers buzzing it's just the device bitrates no reason you can do [TS]

  that today on the icon to write but thats [TS]

  yeah I think about what we're gonna do it they want to do some kind of advance [TS]

  thing where it it literally somehow give you feedback right where you pressed not [TS]

  that the whole device is vibrating which is what the Windows Phone devices like I [TS]

  think they were all assets that when you typed H keypress gave you a tap yeah I'd [TS]

  like us it's not like your phone buzzing your pocket cuz it's not that kind of a [TS]

  very distinct a little just a little something like you don't even notice it [TS]

  I didn't hate it but I didn't find it hopefully there I liked it until I [TS]

  realized that there's no magic just made it was just the phone buzzing in my well [TS]

  it doesn't solve to me the problem like so for example on the iPhone keyboard [TS]

  right from the get-go from 2007 when you press aqui you get past the ASCII an ass [TS]

  pop-up shows up above your thumb yeah it's like if so if you're watching as [TS]

  you type [TS]

  there's this visual indication that you just type in S [TS]

  because you know you need that feedback because there's no buttons are the [TS]

  buttons for each key on the keyboard so close to each other that you wouldn't [TS]

  know where as if the whole phone vibrator taps in the exact same way no [TS]

  matter which key you press it doesn't help you know that you typed an S [TS]

  instead of a deep into you just know you take something and to me that that's not [TS]

  helpful [TS]

  have you heard of one of those tests were you see if you take better with the [TS]

  clicks without the clicks now I know I've always got the ringer off on my [TS]

  phone cuz I just almost everyone in my phone rang but it seems it seems like [TS]

  when the cliques are on my typing accuracy goes up I think so too I keep [TS]

  the clicks on there's the hypocrisy of my my ringer is always on Etsy don't [TS]

  actually hear them the building I live in there's a good entry he could get in [TS]

  and a month or two ago they they change I know they did but it no longer when [TS]

  you dial the keypad they don't be baby anymore and without the beeps are [TS]

  screwed up two or three times before I get it I like to keep it up some people [TS]

  who think that that's so absurd that they can't believe they do find it [TS]

  shocking that I used this eclipse on its similar the key clicks on that [TS]

  menchville because they did similar to the whole phone vibrating it each time [TS]

  you get the same clique no matter which key press it doesn't help you know that [TS]

  you got the Reiki as opposed to like on a hardware keyboard blackberry with a [TS]

  hardware keyboard you know that you press the right key because there's an [TS]

  actual physical sensation but the physical sensations identical for each [TS]

  key in practice though if you think about it if you've ever I've never used [TS]

  a blackberry full time but even if I'm just annoyed with one you know you've [TS]

  gotten the Reiki those spatially you know is on that border between S&D you [TS]

  know that you want that deep respiration to be on the left side not the right [TS]

  side and if you do hit a deer by accident you can feel my thumb was too [TS]

  far to the right right because the way the key presses in only ever-present in [TS]

  it doesn't slide around so depending the physicality of it clarifies you know and [TS]

  that that would be the sort of understand what the technology would be [TS]

  but if there is a way to make it so that you got physical click or press or some [TS]

  kind of sensation right on the pixels that you've pressed it could I could see [TS]

  how that would help something like keyboard typing tremendous but I don't [TS]

  know I've never heard of such technology we should just put a hardware keyboard [TS]

  on those things I do think we're going back to yosemite though overall though I [TS]

  like it a lot and every time I stopped using I have it on a separate machine I [TS]

  don't have enough main machine that every time I go back to Ibrox its it [TS]

  just feels like going back to Iowa sex but even more so yeah it was a little [TS]

  bit of culture shock for me after spending a couple days and you're [TS]

  somebody coming back and I'm used to it now and this is why [TS]

  I don't hate it it it doesn't feel as dramatic as I was six hours 7 going the [TS]

  other direction but if it does I am surprised at how much I like it [TS]

  yeah it's not as it's it's funny it's not as big a difference [TS]

  clearly not as big a difference as iOS 6 2007 that somehow going back it was [TS]

  harder quicker because it's so familiar it's just an improvement I think in [TS]

  almost every way that it makes gone back worse whereas I was 7 everything's it [TS]

  just took time to get used to his Yosemite to me doesn't take any time to [TS]

  get used to it this is just better yeah there's not a lot of downside is an iOS [TS]

  7 there's the status bar thing I don't think I like it and these buttons are [TS]

  weird and there's a bunch of stuff with maverick's to yosemite it really does [TS]

  just be leg they dialed it up I'm curious and I saw did you see that [TS]

  Tobias shrewd Jones somebody asked him what he thought about how medicare [TS]

  system fun and say that I have to look at it afterwards but the gist of it is [TS]

  there a british au lit Schonert I promise but somehow forget who somebody [TS]

  asked to by Astrid Jones formerly of a flat fair Jones you know the whole ugly [TS]

  divorce going on there but the designer of gotten among other you know very very [TS]

  popular and well designed funds he spoke very highly of Lucida Grande as a system [TS]

  font and and no mention that some of the problems with Helvetica as a system but [TS]

  the bottom line and he mentions it too is that it's you know it's right now vs [TS]

  non and I've only been using [TS]

  retina MacBook Pro haven't looked at it yet I guess I should try to put it [TS]

  online or something and see what it looks like on an on display and I can [TS]

  only imagine it is going to look worse I do think that's one of the things about [TS]

  yosemite that is very much in spirit with iOS 7 [TS]

  is that it's a redneck first display design it's designed to look up its [TS]

  optimized for retina displays and its secondarily meant to look ok on this [TS]

  place do you think that's a hint at Apple wanting to move to or being ready [TS]

  to move to a future where there's only retina screens I would definitely if [TS]

  anybody thinks it's not going to be all right now with at some point the next [TS]

  few years i mean you're not but how quickly that's going to be a hopefully [TS]

  it's a sign that it's gonna be sooner rather than later [TS]

  that's what I mean like if they're doing they're already setting things up for [TS]

  its gonna look anything everything looks better on right now by definition but [TS]

  some somethings translate the other direction better than others and I can I [TS]

  don't have anything on it and I think of it as your desktop display 15 inch [TS]

  MacBook Pro yeah so I don't know haven't even seen him back on the iPhone from [TS]

  day one and that wasn't terrible i mean it wasn't maybe not as reliable as a [TS]

  grand but yeah it always worked on iOS and it wasn't bad but I do think it's [TS]

  gonna be worse and I feel like the same way that it did work and it was fine on [TS]

  Iowa spree retina it's it's definitely going to be III I think they'll be [TS]

  complained about it though when yosemite actually ships and winner of Apple's new [TS]

  philosophy about a hundred people is the same as mine was again I don't think so [TS]

  not yet I think maybe on iOS it is and i think that you know I feel like the only [TS]

  people who they really care about Bailey would probably be owners of the original [TS]

  iPad Mini because that devices only they were still being sold a year ago yeah [TS]

  and I are you can still buy an outright doesn't think so i think thats like the [TS]

  low end that's the last one that I feel really care about because the last [TS]

  iPhone 3G s I mean that's forget about [TS]

  i mean you know god bless you first if you're still rocking your 3G s now maybe [TS]

  they're not I don't know see her compare yeah they still sell the iPad Mini [TS]

  without Retina Display 16 gigabytes 299 so that it you know i join us [TS]

  uses my old one and it's not bad I mean it's you know it's you know I don't know [TS]

  that it's any worse than that then the Helvetica was the system front on iOS 6 [TS]

  maybe some of the lack of contrast makes it less showing off but you know I think [TS]

  I wrote about when they first went minutes that I think some of those the [TS]

  visual trickery making buttons look lickable and putting a lot of lighting [TS]

  effects on the buttons and stuff was all to sort of make things look better than [TS]

  the display was capable of really looking whereas with Retina displays you [TS]

  can just let it actually looked just by blade type on a plain background right [TS]

  now I'm not saying that there this would be in in the spirit of well who cares [TS]

  what it looks like on a non Retina screen so much as it is I don't think [TS]

  Apple at this point just going by what they've done with political system I [TS]

  don't think that they're willing to sacrifice what they think is the path [TS]

  forward to make things just a little bit better on the screens I will say this [TS]

  using yosemite and I don't have a machine used as much as I can [TS]

  third party apps it it varies it actually really varies how much they get [TS]

  automatically none look perfect automatically but some look a lot better [TS]

  than others and you can see who was specifying [TS]

  display this list in the system fund others who said display this list in [TS]

  Lucida Grande twelve-point and 12 were saying just give me the system fine they [TS]

  get automatically and I looked pretty good and the ones who are using lucid [TS]

  some of the icons translate little better farrakhan's translate better than [TS]

  others some don't but I'm really curious and and its to me it's a lot like the [TS]

  shift from iOS app makers of gotta get on you know gotta get updates out the [TS]

  door and make their stuff look great on you simply but I'm curious if it's gonna [TS]

  take longer for third-party developers to update their Mac apps just in the way [TS]

  that because they're too busy updating their iPhone apps first yeah yeah I [TS]

  think I mean you if you're smart and convention is that you're supposed to [TS]

  stick to the the API's as much as you can because if Apple changed something [TS]

  out when do you get that change for free this is why you're supposed to using US [TS]

  stocks were so as to not really your own so funny when to me my favorite example [TS]

  of an app that looks even better in Yosemite is not newswire 3 I don't know [TS]

  that I looked at him he's fired 37 that newspaper thing that looks on a on a [TS]

  Retina screen that's got some issues on Mavericks and it just looks it looks not [TS]

  bad I still use it as my daily news reader but it looks dated and I hope it [TS]

  up just cuz I wonder [TS]

  read my feeds everything looks great because the funds are all have attica [TS]

  yeah things and how that again the source list is the vibrancy transparency [TS]

  really yeah it's one of the most one of the most yosemite ready after I had on [TS]

  my Mac yeah you know what that is another thing that I've noticed is that [TS]

  it clear I didn't even know there was such a thing but there must obviously in [TS]

  hindsight there must be like give me a default looking sidebar and those apps [TS]

  look pretty good on your sanity and its translucent and then there's others [TS]

  where they've got late a blue background with you know the wrong find and it just [TS]

  looks so dated but foreign [TS]

  it reminds me of a template images so the the icons that you create for a [TS]

  sidebar source list on the Mac and the things at a bar based app on the iPhone [TS]

  you instead of making an icon that looks like what the end user sees you just [TS]

  make an alpha and alpha channel I can wear the the gradient is is what [TS]

  determines the Alpha so whatever Apple does to update the OS whatever the new [TS]

  style is your your app running on that version of the OS will look like every [TS]

  other so you never stuck like if you were to go in and make [TS]

  looking right now at my screen I see finder and maverick's has that like all [TS]

  of the sort of monochrome the slightly slightly washed out icons along the side [TS]

  like the the iTunes style those are all just you know flat black and white [TS]

  channel probably jpg or png he's sitting somewhere and then the second the OS [TS]

  gets updated they all look the new way I think bottom I'm wrapping up yosemite I [TS]

  really liked it I think it's exactly what exactly what Apple should have done [TS]

  I don't think anything more radical is called for and I think it's gonna proved [TS]

  to be far less controversial [TS]

  I still think there's some people who are you consider iOS 7 controversial [TS]

  right there are people who refused upgrade still yeah I don't think that [TS]

  that's going to happen with you seventy just because of the appearance and and [TS]

  other than the appearance it's not really that different [TS]

  you know they have really changed in any other rules no but I do feel like [TS]

  especially with that we we don't see any of this really today because it's all [TS]

  betas but the extensions and handoff I think this to me [TS]

  pushes towards that that ideal of ages ago a friend of mine told me that his [TS]

  vision for computers in the future be late you carry that thing around like [TS]

  your phone or whatever it is and you can use it the way it is that when you get [TS]

  to work you get somehow and then the the interface changes so that it's a case [TS]

  custom tailored to the way you're working right now the senate can drive a [TS]

  30 inch display on your day [TS]

  right right in where Apple AAPL doing it and I think even more clever way which [TS]

  is allowing you to pass what really matters which is the state in the data [TS]

  back and forth and let the the machines be their own thing yeah because at a [TS]

  certain and who knows I mean I i dont know I feel like that tocqueville idea [TS]

  it always it sounds good but it always runs in the problems and for example [TS]

  your desktop computer if you have a power source even if it's a laptop but [TS]

  if you can put a power source into it at your desk you you want to be able to [TS]

  have abs running and consuming significant amounts of CPU in the [TS]

  background [TS]

  raise your phone you'd never won that right right so what do you do like you [TS]

  can say okay when I doc the thing it runs like a real UNIX computer and [TS]

  applications in the background can just do what they want and then I want to go [TS]

  to the bathroom and take my phone with me and just pick it up then what happens [TS]

  to all those processes that were running like all of a sudden now they're told no [TS]

  no now you gonna be put to sleep in 10 milliseconds hurry up hurry up and [TS]

  finish I mean you could do things like the dock itself has additional CPU and [TS]

  memory resources and maybe those processes can attach to the day it just [TS]

  gets super Lake the kind of people who really like running Linux [TS]

  would enjoy that yeah I think that this is a better approach and it's you know [TS]

  we can even spend it as we talk about some of the Google i/o stuff and it's [TS]

  similar approach that Google has that it's not one machine they take [TS]

  everywhere but like one set of state that's available everywhere they state [TS]

  that thinks not the actual computer right and I stayed in your somebody to [TS]

  me feel like we were finally there are or were very very close to your iPad in [TS]

  your iPhone your Mac all work together one question people have been asking me [TS]

  actually don't know the answers they don't have a spare iPad to run I was [TS]

  saved on [TS]

  a little hesitant to put it on your money in full time on my it's great you [TS]

  know I gotta see it because I've had problems in the past years with the MLB [TS]

  app doesn't work [TS]

  beta and it's like the only app that I really can't do without it off to see [TS]

  but people have been asking will this work between not continuity like handoff [TS]

  like I've started an email can you handed off from an iPhone to iPad where [TS]

  is it only for Mac tireless I think it's only Mac iOS I don't think you can go [TS]

  Iowa stylist but it seemed that seems like something that could be like a 8.1 [TS]

  update or something later in the year and make sense you know that you might [TS]

  wanted somebody you know how I wanna go from this small machine the iPhone where [TS]

  I'm picking this thing out with my thumbs to the big machine right to my [TS]

  email the big your boobs somebody else's big machine for email might be their [TS]

  iPad right I could see it coming I don't think that it's there yet though I could [TS]

  go tested tweet earlier I am I'm impressed with iOS eight and running I [TS]

  was it on my phone my carry from made a phone and on my my day iPad 1 iPad but [TS]

  yeah my retina iPad Mini both running I was a full-time and both there i mean [TS]

  there's weird stuff like I had to reboot my phone every couple of days things [TS]

  just get lucky and i'm glad you brought that up say I've been meaning to talk [TS]

  about this I said what I do is I have I still have my your old iPhone 5 which is [TS]

  also a Verizon so I just if I would have done that device and I just take my sim [TS]

  card out of my daily iPhone 5s put in the five and then use that phone on [TS]

  there and I'm using just that is pretty good but a smiling do it you have to [TS]

  make sure you know if I couldn't do it the year before though because last year [TS]

  was the year or I had switched from AT&T to Verizon so my year old iphone4s I [TS]

  couldn't SIM card swap with [TS]

  so it only works so long as you're year ago phone is on the same carrier and [TS]

  same same setup because well it wasn't yeah alright so like Verizon phones were [TS]

  or not whether world phones but they couldn't yeah it was funny in it and [TS]

  every couple years they cut the SIM card size down to the accident was many [TS]

  announced my crying like a baby with the iPhone 6 they're gonna come you know [TS]

  make an even smaller SIM card now just to get an eyedropper drop it in there [TS]

  one thing though this is that they have been meaning to talk about is this is [TS]

  the first year I've tried to do this in a run run the beta on a year old iPhone [TS]

  as much as they can during summer and even like last year when I couldn't SIM [TS]

  card swap I would at least carry the iphone4s around in the house on wifi as [TS]

  you know the only thing I can do is get phone calls but I don't think I said but [TS]

  everything else i get this is the first year where I don't find going back to [TS]

  the iPhone 5 to be slow physically slow like the interface feel slow I notice in [TS]

  some places but like the keyboard doesn't feel slow I can always that's [TS]

  one thing every single year when I test the new beta of of the operating system [TS]

  on my year old iPhone I think and how do they ever type on this thing the [TS]

  keyboardist and it's never been I don't know if it's because they were you know [TS]

  the operating system slowed down I don't know if it's just that I got used to the [TS]

  increased or decreased latency of the interface responsiveness but this is the [TS]

  one you're referring most part day today I don't feel that much difference [TS]

  between the 5s in five just in terms of navigating around the operating system [TS]

  with this is with you running iOS eight on and on the other phone yet I would [TS]

  you tip your saying you typically run the new OS on the older phone yes I'm [TS]

  thinking that it has more to do with the newness of the OS the age of the phone [TS]

  in terms of your keyboard latency I don't know I just think maybe that maybe [TS]

  it's that I S eight because they didn't do anything new interface wise radically [TS]

  that it's nothing nothing but improved performance wise as opposed to like last [TS]

  year obviously a lot of people had complained that I 07 was dog slow on [TS]

  hardware yeah there's nothing no I don't have any reason to worry about that from [TS]

  7-8 and I think it combines with the fact that maybe the iPhone 5 was the [TS]

  first one where the a sex was sort of good enough you know that it's you know [TS]

  at least for things like typing that we don't need you know the speed [TS]

  improvement I'm sure help in image processing for example right like like [TS]

  the new take 10 snapshots in a row using the press and hold thing there's [TS]

  obviously a lot of computation that involved there faster 87 really helps [TS]

  but for just showing a touchscreen keyboard and typing a 50 I think is [TS]

  where where it hit the fast enough mock exam I'm doing it the other way around [TS]

  we've got I'll say it on my father's and I've got over seven running on why don't [TS]

  keep these devices around sir WBC you had brought a measles for us for me and [TS]

  having a two year gap between those phones I'm running iOS 7 on the older [TS]

  phone and I was eight on the newer phone and i notice keyboard issues on my 500 [TS]

  the 5s running a team like the keyboard feels a little sticky me interesting [TS]

  that's one thing I may have more to do with the OS and the newness of that than [TS]

  it does with the hardware and I'm I could be wrong I don't know my setup [TS]

  interesting I will say this to an invention is before the show but I do a [TS]

  lot of the little things and I was addictive like the reply to a message [TS]

  from anywhere [TS]

  yeah yeah is really really nice it's tough because the that makes it hard to [TS]

  go back like I feel like as look back when the next beta comes out I'll [TS]

  probably just install it on my iPhone to its it's funny it's funny because the [TS]

  normally year-to-year the upgrade you it's tough to go back because there's [TS]

  some big new feature is there something that you really like day today using iOS [TS]

  eight other than the the taking suggestion thing I don't really notice [TS]

  like it just it looks and feels like a slightly buggy ride 07 yeah but it's got [TS]

  those night [TS]

  notification thing for applying is really really nice views the man once [TS]

  you start it's it's it really gets it just feels crazy to go back to not being [TS]

  able to do it I do they getting text messages in multiple devices like I've [TS]

  noticed when people text rather than people who don't have iPhones it shows [TS]

  up on my iPad now and it kind of freaks me out so I don't think I've noticed [TS]

  because I get so few text messages from the dark blue was 111 came yesterday and [TS]

  i'm looking at my iPad and they see the name in there was like wait what that [TS]

  person has an Android phone how is this even possible way and it shows up on [TS]

  your iPad well then maybe maybe some of this continuity features do work i found [TS]

  out i pad right because I think on the demo during the keynote they showed it [TS]

  showing up on your Mac right they didn't show any assumption yeah yeah I expected [TS]

  to show up on my Mac I never would have expected it makes perfect sense I guess [TS]

  it was a surprise if thats it's gotta be that they are there like on the same [TS]

  wi-fi network or maybe even Bluetooth it so still confusing me and I know that [TS]

  I've listened to the podcast nobody's nobody's quite sure which of these [TS]

  features are running over Bluetooth in which are running over wi-fi in which [TS]

  may be using both depending on availability seems like a lot of this [TS]

  stuff though it depends upon the Bluetooth L T boatload low-energy [TS]

  Bluetooth le and the cutoff on Macs for that is pretty recent so there's gonna [TS]

  be a lot of people with semi recent max like two-year-old max two and a half [TS]

  year old max great deal cemetery gonna be bitching because they don't get these [TS]

  features I think I mean if it were me I would make it to where it ran over [TS]

  Bluetooth Bluetooth wasn't available around over wifi because a lot of people [TS]

  turn Bluetooth off on their phone to save battery yeah I feel like that trick [TS]

  is gonna start it's getting to the point where enough of the features depend upon [TS]

  it that you know I think most of my eye I usually keep the 2002 for the same [TS]

  reason but I feel like [TS]

  its gonna get harder ordered it to do that are you going to keep running into [TS]

  oh why isn't this working out turn bluetooth yeah and I think enough people [TS]

  are still doing it it's going to be Apple wouldn't want to get the support [TS]

  calls and if you could just fall back to wifi wanna do it found out my son runs [TS]

  his own devices at maximum brightness of the time maybe send him to wear beeper [TS]

  he knows that it's running that it's running the battery down and in fact [TS]

  every day [TS]

  his iPhone and iPad both completely run out of battery and I said heyy you look [TS]

  your gut brightness although not compromise but he said i'm not going to [TS]

  its gross to run the display at less than have the device be dead than [TS]

  haven't not at maximum beauty wit a kind of respect I i respect is sticking to it [TS]

  yeah I met with my Mac my Mac is always at full brightness in fact that auto [TS]

  greatest thing I never turned it off I really should but if I mean like when [TS]

  when I work out of the office if I pass in front of a window at a certain time [TS]

  of day and my screen starts them and it just drives me nuts I want to always as [TS]

  bright as it can possibly unless I'm on a plane [TS]

  yeah exactly airplane mode firm action involves cutting your display brightness [TS]

  down you know that that brings up something we didn't see in Yosemite and [TS]

  I expect you at some point because we know there's all this talk about will we [TS]

  ever get but WiMAX or LTE chip or something in a Mac and the only [TS]

  technically that would be better to do it's just that software isn't really [TS]

  ready for that you're gonna run to your data pretty quickly [TS]

  yeah that's it seems like we used to [TS]

  who knows maybe someday this year they'll come out with that kind of like [TS]

  your Mac can talk to your [TS]

  your access point and find out that it's an access point running over a data [TS]

  connection rather than running through like a regular wired connection I got [TS]

  something that they can give you get one of the crime advice or something it can [TS]

  report back to your computer that it's it's like a data network device [TS]

  well and there is the new feature in Yosemite and iOS a where once you've [TS]

  paired your phone if your phone has hotspot capability you can turn it on [TS]

  entirely from your Mac without interacting with your phone rates it [TS]

  seems like there has to be some API is in place or something to I don't know so [TS]

  apps can know when they're in that mode vs a different mode so that they things [TS]

  like automatic downloading for certain apps gets turned off right number but [TS]

  I've always remember was Marco who WBC a couple years ago with tethering instead [TS]

  of paying for hotel wifi and it was like he got there on sunday and monday was [TS]

  the keynote and and the new episode of Mad Men hit iTunes here and there like [TS]

  four gigabytes of LTE got his AT&T account closed for the month so mad at [TS]

  the interests right but that's exactly the sort of thing you don't want to do [TS]

  and I don't know how you you know I do think that that's basically why Apple [TS]

  hasn't done it is that you know and I know I guess that there's opt in things [TS]

  that apps can do to say what kind of network and my own before I do this but [TS]

  I feel like there's too much software that already written that just says do I [TS]

  have a network connection if so download the giant [TS]

  I mean we live in a world now where there's a pretty good chance that your [TS]

  data connection is coming through the air even if you're on wifi thing on the [TS]

  other end of that wifi is talking to sprint or talking to Verizon [TS]

  remember I think that the new feature I think that I think they're probably [TS]

  never but my guess is they're never going to they're not going to do [TS]

  LTE equipment books and that this new feature where you can turn on tethering [TS]

  from your iPhone right from the menu and in on your Mac is as close as they're [TS]

  gonna get and that's pretty that's close enough I think I was gonna say do you [TS]

  think that's good do you think that's or would you rather have a Mac that had the [TS]

  data connection yeah because you have to pay an extra 15 bucks a month at the [TS]

  minimum depending on you know like Verizon I think it's giving me a device [TS]

  you yeah we have like one shared family pool of data but every time you added [TS]

  devices to add 10 bucks a month so rather than add another ten bucks a [TS]

  month just to some use the phone cuz it's gonna be the same connection anyway [TS]

  yeah but with your phone your Mac is a great battery in it [TS]

  yeah I but if you're on your Mac and have your phone you can just hard drive [TS]

  through town and I think it's as close as it's it's probably as close as you're [TS]

  gonna get it's probably in the real world all I would ever need there's [TS]

  something nice about having all of the stuff on your Mac like everything that [TS]

  you could have on your Mac sits on them but the truth is my phone's always in my [TS]

  pocket anyway yeah alright let me take a break and thank our third and final [TS]

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  amazing anyone can backup your day you can backup your data [TS]

  you know hard drives on your desk you can send it to there's all sorts of [TS]

  other online services [TS]

  here's the thing that they've done they can prove they can show you they have a [TS]

  record a track record not just a backing up your data but getting it back to you [TS]

  when you need it [TS]

  they've crossed the mark they have over six billion files that users of [TS]

  Backblaze have restored from back but it's not just that they've backed up six [TS]

  billion 6 billion backed up files that they've gotten restored because they [TS]

  needed it because of driving data file encrypt something like that you can [TS]

  access all of your data from anywhere from any of your devices they have an [TS]

  iPad app that lets you access and share any of your files you can restore one [TS]

  file at a time or all of your files easily with their web restore 25% of all [TS]

  the restores that Backblaze users do or just one file right it's super targeted [TS]

  when you need it when you need that one file that you know how backed up not [TS]

  just for computer disasters it's raining time when you're out in the way from [TS]

  your computer and you need a file oh I know I have it on my Mac back at home [TS]

  but I've got with me as my just fire up the app you can get any file on your [TS]

  system [TS]

  founded by Acts Apple engineers Backblaze runs natively on your Mac [TS]

  Mavericks there's no add-ons no gimmicks no extra charges no upsells just simple [TS]

  five bucks a month per computer for unlimited on throttled back up [TS]

  five bucks a month per computer for unlimited on throttled back up [TS]

  five bucks a month best five bucks a month you can spend get a no risk no [TS]

  credit card required trial 30 day trial no credit card just try it and in the [TS]

  end of the thirty days again to you going to sign up for the Backblaze dot [TS]

  com slash daring fireball Backblaze dot com slash during fireball I can't I [TS]

  can't believe there's enough people out there who listen to the show [TS]

  haven't signed up for it that they still keep sponsor the show I just opened up [TS]

  the page I have not returned you you do the sponsor it for them I'm always think [TS]

  I really need to do so this time I got it open it's the easiest best thing in [TS]

  the world demarco had a thing that the other we had to listen 80 people Marco [TS]

  had a thing where the drive in his Mac Pro went bad like real bad like a [TS]

  dangerous way where he couldn't boot the machine and then when he booted from the [TS]

  emergency partition and Disk Utility it all in there is nothing wrong with his [TS]

  drive so did nothing wrong with the drive but he couldn't log log into it [TS]

  and long story short he solved it another way I think he's super duper and [TS]

  had like a super duper clinton did but like he even said on the show one of the [TS]

  things and this is to me is that the the key is that peace of mind thing we're [TS]

  here in the back of his mind he knew if if did laying around with what he had on [TS]

  his desk with backup since you know super duper clones and and stuff like [TS]

  that didn't work the worst case scenario is he still had everything in backless [TS]

  it's like that that peace of mind is to me the key to back plays vs any other [TS]

  thing that you could do like Time Machine and super duper clones which are [TS]

  great to its that peace of mind of knowing you've got this other thing off [TS]

  site in the cloud [TS]

  its I've got the page open as soon as we're done recording on the side of this [TS]

  because I had when I was doing my whole year somebody second partition thing I [TS]

  had some some some very close calls with my own data and you know everything [TS]

  that's really important I got on Dropbox I i wouldn't be totally screwed but it [TS]

  would take me a good day or two to try to get my system back to the way it was [TS]

  and then it's never gonna quite feel right [TS]

  and to just have all my stuff out there in one place [TS]

  backed up I just need to do it I'm stupid for not having done it already so [TS]

  Google material design this is the new design language that Google announced [TS]

  last week that IO I don't think I think to summarize it to me I'm not a daily [TS]

  and reducer I mean I try to stay up to date [TS]

  it's not as radical I going from the previous look to this new one is not as [TS]

  big leap as iOS 6 2007 its to me a little bit more like yosemite you know [TS]

  it's like their equivalent of yosemite it's it's just sort of cleaning up and [TS]

  modernization in getting rid of some walking us but I think it looks bad to [TS]

  first time to me that Android looks like from top to bottom that did one cohesive [TS]

  set of visual guidelines for house stuff should look I think even more than the [TS]

  visual update which you're right it's not a huge leap but what does feel like [TS]

  a big leap is the way they're documenting and talking about the design [TS]

  yeah the design side but it's weird it's a good first I was very complimentary to [TS]

  it I still and date judging it mainly on what it is they're recommending that [TS]

  developers do which i think is all right and good and it's not just hey add [TS]

  animation to your user interfaces add animation in a way that increases [TS]

  understand what's going on so if you open something it doesn't just appear on [TS]

  screen it opens from somewhere like from the button that you tapped to open it [TS]

  and then when you close it goes back down into the thing I was looking at the [TS]

  the docs before we we jumped on to do the show just wanted to get my ducks in [TS]

  a row here and I noticed comparing the the Android design stuff about animation [TS]

  versus what is in the Iowa 7 Hague but get them side-by-side in iOS 7 it says [TS]

  things like I'm not gonna read it verbatim but it's more or less saying [TS]

  here's why [TS]

  animations and here's the the scenarios and here's you wanna be reserved [TS]

  to feel a certain way and the Google site is okay so here's the code to do an [TS]

  animation and here's the direction things could go and maybe there's some [TS]

  like footnotes here in there about why you are doing things the way you do it [TS]

  but it's still very very Google yeah but some of it to me is not very very quiet [TS]

  as Duarte being particularly key I don't know I never met him but these he seems [TS]

  a bit he's always struck me as onstage demeanor is being a bit Thuy ok here's [TS]

  here's a phrase a lot of people have called this out very early on when you [TS]

  go to / design and start reading up on it it's somewhere in the [TS]

  first couple of pages and it says material is the metaphor now this is [TS]

  reading material metaphor is the unifying theory of a rationalized space [TS]

  and a system of motion our material is grounded and tactile reality inspired by [TS]

  our study of paper and ink yet open to imagination and magic and what does that [TS]

  mean that's a lot of what does it mean it means nothing right that is in fact [TS]

  it is Don Draper route that it's actually now because it done draper of [TS]

  Don Draper wrote it would it would at least make you think of something real [TS]

  like I think I just larry right I feel like Don Draper would go nuts I forget [TS]

  the opposite its in fact I think it's actually misleading where the only thing [TS]

  you come out of that is something something study of paper and ink but [TS]

  it's not the rules of their new interface are not grounded in the [TS]

  realities of paper and ink right there's no school more fake Inc bleed or paper [TS]

  texture and you know things balance and move in ways that paper and in camp [TS]

  mountain move you know that you know you can't have it both ways and say they [TS]

  have based the metaphors on paper and ink and then [TS]

  increase the amount of animation and stretching that you can do right it's [TS]

  actually false it's actually misleading because paper doesn't move like liquid [TS]

  right I think you're better off reading the Google material design docs not [TS]

  reading the actual English and just looking at a potential just like like [TS]

  lorem ipsum all of the descriptions and just go through and look at it visually [TS]

  and it it to me and when I did that it makes way more sense than if you try to [TS]

  read it and understand with this shit about a rationalized space in a system [TS]

  of motion is it very hand wavy it's like somebody somebody way too hard about [TS]

  this [TS]

  yeah they want to make it seem like more than it is even during the keynote I [TS]

  forget the line but the guy he said the incoming I don't forget to call it that [TS]

  but the the ink thing moves like water and it like right there it will put a [TS]

  metaphor is it angers order choose one word you're already confusing things for [TS]

  me I do think too and I think its interests had to be interesting to see [TS]

  how quickly Android developers pick up on these guidelines because to me every [TS]

  time I've tried Android it's the Google stuff is OK [TS]

  doesn't make me happy and doesn't feel good but it's ok but as soon as you get [TS]

  into third party apps it's just brutal just brutal in terms of aesthetics and [TS]

  layout and part of this is the advantage that a lot of the stuff doesn't come [TS]

  from the operating system really it's this Google Play services thing that you [TS]

  get from the Google Play Store and it's like this shared library so that you [TS]

  developers don't have to wait till everybody's running the new Android tell [TS]

  you know version and they're gonna call at five point our whatever which is [TS]

  going to be years but a big chunk of existing Android phones that won't get [TS]

  the upgrade to the fall [TS]

  new OS will get the new Google Play services which is the shared library and [TS]

  I think that [TS]

  this interface stuff will all be distributed through there so it's [TS]

  interesting I i cant wait to see his like with with the iOS all the major [TS]

  developers every app that I can't remember how long it took to every app I [TS]

  use on a daily basis was updated Fri 07 but it didn't take long as I wanted to [TS]

  hold out I like my first two home screens I don't know that Android has [TS]

  developers who care about stuff like that [TS]

  what seems like what they're trying to do looking at the / design [TS]

  this is pretty well put together they're trying really hard to make it look like [TS]

  they care about design and that sounds dismissive but what I mean is they they [TS]

  they're really trying to get across the importance of design to developers like [TS]

  to maybe they've they've recognized that that lack of consistency there's a given [TS]

  fragmentation within the design of third-party apps and maybe if they can [TS]

  bump up Claudia maybe they can set an example they can pump up across the [TS]

  board [TS]

  it's interesting to me that Apple's approach to this is they create [TS]

  thoughtful designs that people want to emulate them going document those [TS]

  designs and people will try to achieve that themselves whereas Google will [TS]

  write documentation and make API's yeah I did I noticed that too that I i watch [TS]

  that whole interminable keynote they don't show as many apps as anyone near [TS]

  as many apps as Apple did when they should I was seven and and you know I [TS]

  think it speaks to the way Apple works where Apple AAPL did redesign every [TS]

  single part of iOS you know all the apps mail and calendar [TS]

  you know everything and it's the way you know let's face it you know you can [TS]

  admit it you do you read The Hague but let's face it you design stuff mostly by [TS]

  to look at what Apple's done you digested and internalized ok here's the [TS]

  way it's supposed to be and then you kind of shoot from the hip you go from [TS]

  your gut and you know it you know you don't sit there with the hague open and [TS]

  you know ok it says sixteen point between these two things so I make these [TS]

  two 16 points and some point you go [TS]

  you know make sure you've got everything like that right but when you've got [TS]

  Photoshop open you're creating art not a description right in the asss all the [TS]

  time but the Gandhis guidelines and I think of the hague more is like the the [TS]

  instructions that come with the new device or your toaster something like [TS]

  you've you might think you're gonna look through it you're gonna get the basics [TS]

  and you might refer to it later but it's not you don't even sitting next year [TS]

  toasters toast you read it [TS]

  same thing with like Strunk and white or any other writing guidelines for [TS]

  writer's writer doesn't sit there with you know the Chicago Manual of Style [TS]

  open and for each sentence look it up [TS]

  how am I supposed to structure the sentence the writer just right and then [TS]

  every once in a while you run into a sticky situation or your editor will [TS]

  save somebody's read it will point to a sentence and say oh isn't this ambiguous [TS]

  here you know and then you think why do need to look at the guidelines you know [TS]

  let me see but while you're actually writing you're in a completely different [TS]

  modes are not referring to us at rules you've already internalized them right [TS]

  and I do you have that that structure that framework in your head or you don't [TS]

  and it did seem like Google and I think you know I think part of it is just the [TS]

  way Google is different than a plane part of it too though is that they're [TS]

  aware that their developer base is different you know I think your point [TS]

  there about internalizing it you're you're right and i think is what's [TS]

  telling here is that Google is is setting this up I mean if you're if [TS]

  you're not a good designer than no amount of documentation is gonna make [TS]

  you a good designer but I think if I have some kind of objection if I haven't [TS]

  a strong opinion about the way Google is doing things here it's that they're sort [TS]

  of presenting it as a flake ok just read this and i could be good at it [TS]

  yeah and I think that that's there probably wrong on that part I think but [TS]

  me know obviously you when I use the word bias River biased but I do think we [TS]

  we as a whole [TS]

  collectively have talked a lot over the years about how iOS the average iOS user [TS]

  is different from the average Android user and that's one of the reasons why [TS]

  raw market share comparisons are far less valid than in any other context [TS]

  because [TS]

  they're not if the users are have different expectations different reasons [TS]

  for buying the device if they spend different amount of money if they have [TS]

  different amounts of Education [TS]

  different income levels if they live in different places if they tend you know [TS]

  tend to live in different countries that makes a big difference on the value of [TS]

  them collectively as you know can you build a business just addressing these [TS]

  developers I think last spoken about but maybe even just as important is that I [TS]

  think there's very clearly a demographic difference between Android developers [TS]

  and iOS developers in the same way that there was always a difference between [TS]

  Windows developers and Mac developers [TS]

  totally agree with that I think it's a very similar difference you know and [TS]

  that there'll be some companies will design you know have the same teams and [TS]

  have designers who had to do is make an app that looks as similar as we can on [TS]

  iOS and Android and there's develop you know developers and designers who are [TS]

  working on both and I'm sure I know I've read blog posts from some of them there [TS]

  are designers you know talented designers who are either fans of Android [TS]

  or just the nature of your job is that's where they're working I'm not trying to [TS]

  make the eggs you know I'm not jumping to any kind of extreme conclusion that [TS]

  there is no good designers working on Android but I think I feel very [TS]

  confident saying that most good mobile UI designers are either iOS only I was [TS]

  first right i think thats some of that is that there's a moving target problem [TS]

  with Android where which device which set of API's are you designing for ya [TS]

  which version of the OS redesigning for are you designing for hardware keyboard [TS]

  redesigning for soccer keyboardist I like a jog dial thing on the side that [TS]

  used to navigate or is it all touch screen and it's it's all of it even a [TS]

  little bit but even that a lot because I i Android especially at the farm level [TS]

  has unified they've got rid of all those things like all those things that used [TS]

  to be claimed to be his strength of the platform that some of the devices you [TS]

  know if you want to a hardware keyboard you can have a hardware keyboard if you [TS]

  want to jog dial you can have a job [TS]

  one of the front of those things anymore they're just that that's good for [TS]

  everybody but it means that there's there's still there's still some moving [TS]

  target stuff for Android hardware and where a designer for Apple platform you [TS]

  kind of like you know the screen size and you know the resolution and you know [TS]

  how how big a thing needs to be and how you hold it and where your thumb ends up [TS]

  and and that plus the fact that most users I'm gonna get in trouble for [TS]

  saying this but by and large paid software on Android does not sell as [TS]

  well as on I was gonna get in trouble for I think everybody I was that was the [TS]

  more political version but it's nobody is going to spend a ton of time [TS]

  designing software nobody's gonna spend the money to pay a great designer to [TS]

  make software that nobody's gonna buy it does make you wonder 444 absurd always [TS]

  gonna be free like a major and OB appt that is you mean you pay for it but it's [TS]

  like this so mass-market that it doesn't matter that there's no inherent I was [TS]

  for Sandra bias there necessarily or something that is like maybe the Major [TS]

  League Soccer app where you just if you're a fan you're going to download it [TS]

  it's free and it's the app exists to help get you excited about a different [TS]

  thing they they make their money elsewhere you really look like a Twitter [TS]

  a perfect but it surprises me that there's those companies aren't spending [TS]

  more on Android design and me too I don't know one thing that I'm wondering [TS]

  about I've noticed and I think that the new Google material design is largely in [TS]

  line with it is like when you look at the Google Maps app for iOS you have the [TS]

  Google Maps app yeah yeah that's the that's my daily use maps out it looks [TS]

  it's it wasn't designed that Google Maps iOS app was not designed in isolation [TS]

  from this material design it's not exactly the same but it's you know the [TS]

  big differences Apple that has you know and we it comes down to like what we [TS]

  talked about an hour ago about how yosemite and iOS 7 look related but they [TS]

  don't look like the same thing whereas material design their their flat out [TS]

  saying it's meant to look the same [TS]

  on Chromebook and tablet and on a phone and I think implicitly some of the [TS]

  screenshots they've shown showed apps with an iOS status bar not Android [TS]

  status bar and that I think that they're they're presenting this is a design [TS]

  language that you could use for iOS apps too and I think that they themselves are [TS]

  sort of been doing that their apps to me avoid you know started looking a little [TS]

  bit more like Moon Man iOS apps to be a little tricky because they would have to [TS]

  give out some kind of framework SDK to make those API is working I thought well [TS]

  I don't know if they're I don't know if they're going to mean for third-party [TS]

  developers to do that or if it's just something they're doing themselves [TS]

  internally but don't you think I can I look at maps like they've got like a [TS]

  back button that uses an hour 0 instead of a Chevrolet and it doesn't doesn't [TS]

  slide from the side I was relationship with Google right now is such that I [TS]

  write that a lot of that off as just google sayings Curry who has agreed to [TS]

  our own thing we don't care for looks like an eye on it but it doesn't you [TS]

  know it's close enough they're related enough it's not like Windows Phone which [TS]

  Windows Phone is very different metaphor right right it would really stick out [TS]

  where is this is two takes on the same basic idea yeah and I think I mean he [TS]

  said Google Maps as my daily use maps app and I don't find myself thinking I [TS]

  don't hate it I don't feel grossed out by its coolness but it doesn't look like [TS]

  an iOS 7 right and I wonder like I feel like they're going that route with like [TS]

  Gmail and stuff to do that's the other app that's what happened did show off in [TS]

  the keynote and I have to say the new Gmail app looks so much better then that [TS]

  you stalk ya I haven't seen it but i i i dont understand the people who used the [TS]

  Gmail web interface for the [TS]

  like I just used the stock my lap belt the new Gmail app looks a lot more used [TS]

  to icon and rated looked like a web app and just even though was a native app [TS]

  just looked is just the space in the typography was just horrible [TS]

  really really bad last thing I wanted to talk about and this is from i/o is is [TS]

  that in broad terms I i guess i wanna write about that under informal to think [TS]

  about ever since is that there's all sorts of details and I love to examine [TS]

  the details you know spend you know you could spend the whole show just talked [TS]

  about the difference between Roboto font but if you zoom out take the ten [TS]

  thousand foot perspective it's kind of remarkable and I think unremarked upon [TS]

  just how similar we targeted Google and Apple's initiatives are right [TS]

  tech company talking about you know set-top devices that run mobile OS and [TS]

  have an App Store and wearables and watch apples and health tracking and [TS]

  heart rate monitors and footstep monitors and an API for apps to track [TS]

  those things you know and I know that Apple wrist wearable install rumor not a [TS]

  thing but I mean it's it's one of those rumors that has a lot of smoke and [TS]

  everybody's talking about it and people been talking about an improved Apple TV [TS]

  with an app store for years the health and fitness tracking Apple announced the [TS]

  health API's home automation they're both talking about that Google bought [TS]

  next Apple you know flat-out came out with iOS he said you know here we're [TS]

  adding these things and we're working with all these companies to see your [TS]

  garage door opener on you know your thermostat and whatever can all be [TS]

  hooked up notably nest was not on that right [TS]

  very noticeably it's all the same sort of basic ideas right car integration [TS]

  there's another obvious when you can say it all this stuff is obvious but they're [TS]

  both all those things are on both companies agendas how much of that do [TS]

  you think is me too [TS]

  how much of it do you think is that's just where they even in a vacuum both [TS]

  companies would have ended up here I don't know I find it remarkable to me [TS]

  it's very remarkable that they're all all of those things I just mentioned ro [TS]

  all on both on both companies agendas I mean because I think I know I think I [TS]

  know enough to say I don't know enough to say that Apple is coming out with a [TS]

  wearable device that you were wearing arrest but I do know enough I can say [TS]

  with certainty that they have investigated it thoroughly and that if [TS]

  they don't it's because they rejected the Dave you know that they have people [TS]

  who I know we're working on a wearable for your wrist so they at least looked [TS]

  at it all of those things right watches congress wearables cause I'm not [TS]

  convinced that that they're the ones I can be successful gonna be watched like [TS]

  but let's say something you wear it health fitness tracking home automation [TS]

  car integration TV set tops all the same things I just find it remarkable that [TS]

  both companies have their sights even as their what else could they get into yeah [TS]

  I don't know if it's if it's just that they're also too obvious ideas for [TS]

  expansion or a byproduct of the relationship between Apple and Google [TS]

  now where they're so like I for a long time you'd say that their friends and [TS]

  and I think we might be moving either in the middle of or right at the end of [TS]

  frenemies territory and it's about to get ugly [TS]

  yeah I would say that we're past that I think they're in our tribal territory I [TS]

  really think it's already there [TS]

  yeah I do I think it's been there ever since the I think it's been there for [TS]

  years ever since the Steve Jobs internal Apple thing that don't be evil is [TS]

  bullshit you know I think it's been that way since I mean outwardly like the way [TS]

  they behave to each other but even even after that it was still the maps app is [TS]

  powered by Google yeah but only because it had to be in a switch [TS]

  you know they switch before probably a year before they were ready but they had [TS]

  to do it anyway because they couldn't get an extra year you know [TS]

  very contentious you know I know I don't know I still don't know exactly I'd love [TS]

  to know in hindsight how much of it was 90 forestall took the blame for that [TS]

  seriously lacking in quality of it and as it debuts and I think that the just I [TS]

  don't know this for a fact I think this is all third-hand but the gist is that [TS]

  that the maps team led the rest of Apple to think it no it's not going to be as [TS]

  good as Google Maps is gonna be problems were gonna take a hit on this but that [TS]

  here's where we are you know the bar if a hundred percent is as good as Google [TS]

  Maps we're at 75 and given all the other considerations you know that's why we [TS]

  should go ahead and do it now because running any get from 75 to 100 130 of [TS]

  real-world usage can improve it but then when it shipped it was like 40 on a [TS]

  scale one hundred and that there was less than what the internal team had [TS]

  promised even if what they had promised was not as good as Google Maps like [TS]

  nobody in Apple nobody thought we were gonna make this transition and it's [TS]

  going to be just as good I mean everybody knew you could just look at [TS]

  certain maps and see it in a basement and not even that but transit transit [TS]

  directions [TS]

  yea well exactly which you know they're only adding now right isn't that is not [TS]

  an ISA miss remember if it is I missed it but obviously they knew that they [TS]

  were losing out on transit directions which by the way is the reason that I [TS]

  switch to using Google Maps is my new york I need to know which train today [TS]

  yeah she absolutely you know you live in an area where you depend on public [TS]

  transportation it's you know like night and day right it's like having a weather [TS]

  app that doesn't even show your location it is it true you know like I think I [TS]

  went dark sky shipped it was like only had like aus [TS]

  data source who I know there have been some weather apps that only a few s [TS]

  whether you know no matter how cold the APAs if you live in Europe it's [TS]

  worthless you know if you take the subway to get to get places in New York [TS]

  City Apple maps isn't going to help you at all but I'm curious whether if you [TS]

  know and I think it was a problem [TS]

  for forced on and as you know in terms of accountability that it wasn't as good [TS]

  as opposed to have been and as they were led to have been but I don't know that [TS]

  they still wouldn't have switched at the same time anyway it's just that maybe [TS]

  they would have positioned to different marketing wise to set the expectations [TS]

  lower because they were in such a tight spot in terms of Google demanding really [TS]

  deep access to users personal location data in exchange for the things that [TS]

  Apple really needed from Google which were vector-based maps instead of bitmap [TS]

  maps and drive driving directions and the things that you really need for a [TS]

  good maps databases data and they they even said that the more you use it the [TS]

  better the service is gonna get it so I think maybe in in a perfect or something [TS]

  perfect world they would have baby because it look what else did they have [TS]

  the wound up being way better after more people used to because of data series [TS]

  yeah so maybe they would have liked launched this alongside the maps app is [TS]

  like the new maps beta I don't know how they could have done it if their [TS]

  relationship is better but that given the state of the relationships I [TS]

  actually think even knowing how bad the initial version of maps was gonna be the [TS]

  day did the right thing I think the wrong thing was that they didn't [TS]

  presented in lower expectations and they could have even been more forthright [TS]

  about the fact that it was contentious you know that you know I don't know [TS]

  there's some way that they could have presented it that would have lowered [TS]

  expectations accordingly and stuff to sell it that way but it's better than [TS]

  what they went through though I mean you can say that stuff to sell but it's a [TS]

  lot tougher to say wow [TS]

  new maps is gonna be awesome and then you got the maps and house was I just [TS]

  leave it sits I'm trying to imagine Apple getting up in like what they say [TS]

  how they point out how contentious relationship maybe cadet maybe that they [TS]

  couldn't get into but somehow they could have said look into this and it's gonna [TS]

  protect you know they can emphasize the protection of privacy which is true it [TS]

  absolutely no there's no spin involved there you could say it's been by [TS]

  emphasizing the privacy protection [TS]

  because I was the bottom line is that Google was demanding access to user [TS]

  identifiable personal location data in exchange for all of the things that [TS]

  Apple needed to improve maps using Google Maps and it was you know that [TS]

  there was no going forward from that and they had denounced the switch you know [TS]

  they could announce the switch mid year they had to the contract was up I think [TS]

  the to renew it for more than one year it was either do it now when the [TS]

  contract's up or you know go through the pain of having all this you know succumb [TS]

  to Google's demands for user data which they weren't gonna do you know it's it's [TS]

  an interesting point the contentiousness of the relationship because people like [TS]

  you and me do that but that's not everyone who uses an iPhone oh alright [TS]

  and Apple knows that and doesn't expect for Apple's internal negotiation [TS]

  problems to be you know that's apples pineapple knows that that's their [TS]

  problem not the user's problem but you know that's an instance where it [TS]

  effectively became that users problem it's an interesting thought experiment [TS]

  though the back and think about you know just yesterday was the seven year [TS]

  anniversary of when the first iPhone ship and think I don't know why [TS]

  everybody was making a penny I haven't posted a few photos comparing the two [TS]

  you know why seven a big deal I'm not quite sure but you know June 29 and it's [TS]

  interesting to go back to seven years ago and think about how you know the [TS]

  Google was a partner in the iPhone right now it was called on stage in the [TS]

  keynote was introduced and was all hugs and smiles he was a board member at [TS]

  Apple and there is this whole look will make the awesome device in Google will [TS]

  provide the awesome you know cloud services like Maps and YouTube it [TS]

  interesting to think we'd be today if that relationship had stayed like that [TS]

  and Google hadn't gone into Android and built their own competitor to the iPhone [TS]

  and was you know there was more of a happy relationship there I don't think [TS]

  it would have lasted anyway because I think even without Android Google would [TS]

  have demanded the same [TS]

  it wouldn't have changed schools thirst for privacy invasive collection of user [TS]

  data and you could argue that it's a good thing even I mean it may be [TS]

  annoying for Apple that with a dividend rate but at the same time that [TS]

  relationship has evolved to wear them in the rivalry of that relationship is such [TS]

  that we're gonna win out in a big way if both companies are making all of these [TS]

  different kinds of things at the same time that means we as consumers get a [TS]

  choice and where we've got two very powerful companies with a lot of [TS]

  technology behind them finding out who can make the better thing and I don't [TS]

  know I think kind of feel like Google's business model exists in Apple's blind [TS]

  spot at the time that it just never like Microsoft Apple understood right they're [TS]

  going to make a competing platform into gonna sell it for $15 a pop gems you [TS]

  know they understood that they didn't use the same business model but I think [TS]

  that they saw like their potential competitors for the iPhone is being [TS]

  companies like rim you know making ground of doing that I you know the same [TS]

  thing as Apple making the whole which the services the devices and something [TS]

  like Microsoft where somebody would sell commercial system 20 am's for a profit I [TS]

  think the whole idea of we're just gonna give it away for free and sell things it [TS]

  costs and make it up by collecting user data and using that data to sell [TS]

  advertising it I think it existed blind spot for Apple so you think they just [TS]

  say they'd never expected to be able to make this kind of stuff yeah I don't [TS]

  think that I don't think that that Apple in 2007 when they'd agreed hey when you [TS]

  know the stories that have come out center that the maps app was relatively [TS]

  late edition but it was like hey what if we did this what if we have maps and we [TS]

  have GPS and we can triangulate location with cell towers and we could get a [TS]

  really cool what if we work with Google and get a really cool version of maps [TS]

  and it was cool right it was a really you know that was one of those things [TS]

  that made the iPhone not a phone you know it was like his new thing you had [TS]

  live updating maps in her hand was amazing you know I didn't know that was [TS]

  a late addition but that makes sense and it shows that because the first iPhone [TS]

  didn't have GPS yeah yeah I didn't have GPS think it I think it was entirely [TS]

  cellphone triangulation and WiFi network of known wi-fi locations general with [TS]

  the early 12 if you if you had like a new wifi like I had used to carry around [TS]

  a little airport express my suitcase I guess I still take some places but you [TS]

  know that way I would hook up to the hotel cities in the hotel's wifi use [TS]

  Ethernet used the hotel's internet and set up the iPhone we had no idea where I [TS]

  was until I got off the wifi so I don't know I don't know where where we would [TS]

  be to think that there was a shipping thing they did that maybe that's the [TS]

  thing about the seven years is looking back and thinking how primitive was this [TS]

  thing it was so advanced at the time but from in only seven years it's become I [TS]

  don't know almost all the folksy to think to think about of an iPhone [TS]

  shipping without GPS now with a truly shitty camera too crazy it was like it [TS]

  shipped with a really nice cell phone camera and what I used to think of his [TS]

  cell phone camera quality as I going to get paid to do this thing because [TS]

  yesterday I took photos side-by-side photos with the 5s in the original [TS]

  iPhone and I had to figure out how to get the photos from the old iPhone to my [TS]

  new iphone to post on Twitter and I didn't want to go through the Mac I was [TS]

  just sitting there watching soccer games and stuff and I couldn't figure it out [TS]

  cause I couldn't send text messages cause I didn't have any so I don't have [TS]

  the SIM card for the old iPhone it was running an old version of iOS didn't [TS]

  have a message of course there you know old reliable email you can always email [TS]

  yourself something and then went to email the photo and just emailed it to [TS]

  myself but it didn't ask me do you want to send small medium [TS]

  just send it I don't remember that and then it showed up on my new iphone [TS]

  couple seconds later and one was only like a hundred and nine k its rocket and [TS]

  then I realized nope that's how soon that was they didn't ask because the [TS]

  false Hayes photo was only like 200 is crazy night last thing I know we've got [TS]

  a long as long as I talk show standards but to me it is emblematic of the [TS]

  differences is is the car stuff isn't shipping yet the home automation stuff [TS]

  isn't really shipping and I know that there's new stuff with nest the one [TS]

  thing that started to ship are the watches right and now they've they [TS]

  shipped the first to Google wear watches and they had on-site they didn't give [TS]

  them to people yet the prototypes of the month at perot types but like early [TS]

  production models of the Moto 360 which is the round it it doesn't even use the [TS]

  whole circle yeah that's the bottom of the bottom it's not actually around [TS]

  there's actually I thought it was a bug and I read so if you look at the [TS]

  pictures of the Moto 360 at the very bottom of the front face like it the 6 [TS]

  o'clock area there's a small black bars like it's almost like a bottom [TS]

  letterboxing of a few pixels at the bottom of the screen and apparently [TS]

  that's a feature not a bug it's where the displayed they can display drivers I [TS]

  don't know that means but I guess it's in other words for some technical reason [TS]

  it couldn't make the full display round I'm gonna call that a bug it's just it [TS]

  looks like somebody screwed up coughing and Instagram picture right will who who [TS]

  when you settle on that who says well good enough it's it's it looks like a [TS]

  joke it looks as if they've Korpi had tweeted that it looks like something [TS]

  that would come out of a plastic egg to me it everything about those watches and [TS]

  normalizes the difference between Google and Apple and Google fans and Apple fans [TS]

  you know I don't mean it like [TS]

  fans may not be the best people who tend to be drawn to Apple products versus [TS]

  people who tend to be drawn to products and Sensibility yeah and it just [TS]

  emphasizes how different we are and in fact like for example the reaction from [TS]

  people who like stuff and maybe they're people who own a pair of Google glass [TS]

  and they attended Ohio and they were there and they got to choose the speed [TS]

  they gave you either the Samsung or LG rectangular and they said later in the [TS]

  year will give you the Moto 361 too and they had the 360 is there you can play [TS]

  with in demo mode but you couldn't take it with him [TS]

  those people and they say I like it I've got my samsung year live on I like it [TS]

  it's it's nice but I you know wow the the motorists the Moto 361 is even nicer [TS]

  can't wait for it right you are already admit that the one that that shipping is [TS]

  so horrible that they already want the next one [TS]

  it's the name I give you call something at 361 it doesn't hurt that should be [TS]

  like the the Moto 342 I don't know how many degrees that is but it's probably [TS]

  like maybe take 300 the Moto 300 I think that it's such a perfect example of the [TS]

  Steve Jobs added that you can't start with the technology and work your way [TS]

  back to the product you have to start with the design and then find the [TS]

  technology to make it work that they've gone about this completely different in [TS]

  fact even said so on stage that word where it's now possible to make a full [TS]

  powered computer that you can wear on your by that the technology now exists [TS]

  to make a little watch sized vaguely biggest watch but you can make a [TS]

  computer this size arrest and so here it is here we've made one you know as [TS]

  opposed to coming up with here's something he would really want to do and [TS]

  and [TS]

  you would want to wear and then we figured out the technology to make it [TS]

  work [TS]

  it's a completely backwards it's a very different I will eat my hat if apple [TS]

  unveils something in the fall that even vaguely resembles these these watches [TS]

  defined vaguely resemble well that it's [TS]

  I actually have the thing right here it's a Kickstarter project actually [TS]

  forget the name of it and it's not printed on the watch band but it was a [TS]

  way to watch band you goodbye to put an iPad 2 square iPod nano and oh yeah [TS]

  tick tock or something yeah those Apple stores to yeah and it was a Kickstarter [TS]

  project and I bought it and and for strapping and i screw square iPod Nano [TS]

  under arrest it was great and it's a nice rubber band and I've worn it for [TS]

  listening to music or podcasts while running with iPod Nano it's great you [TS]

  put iPod nano and Kristen way better than strapping full-size i phone on your [TS]

  arm with an armband because iPod Nano is very small but these galaxies things are [TS]

  exactly is graceful and elegant and good looking as an iPod Nano strapped to a [TS]

  third party with you i think that was never designed to be a watch strap [TS]

  terrorists now technically there is obviously a big improvements where the [TS]

  iPod Nano didn't have any kind of internet access or live connection to [TS]

  your phone [TS]

  it's an independent device and now they've got notifications and stuff like [TS]

  that so there's a big difference in terms of the actual wireless thing but [TS]

  it just in terms of aesthetics I just can't believe that what they've come up [TS]

  with you know and at the interfaces no better than putting around bunches [TS]

  screens in fact interfaces worse because they don't have any kind of home screen [TS]

  on a watch it's like you've always got these cards that you click and there's [TS]

  no sense of where I find it very confusing in terms of spatial navigation [TS]

  at least the iPod Nano has a home screen where you squeeze down [TS]

  on and you've got a grid of apps like iOS which is still kinda weird iOS [TS]

  application yeah it just doesn't quite fit on the screen that small yeah I do I [TS]

  get their name it as a as a tech demo or as if you saw it in a movie in the hero [TS]

  had one that actually did use the full circle you think that was kind of cool [TS]

  as like movie you I that would look cool in the real world with the bar at the [TS]

  bottom line it's where the letterbox like that it just it feels like a joke [TS]

  it feels like this is a half-baked product is trying to get out the door so [TS]

  that they can get interest up for the next one [TS]

  it's more about an investment in the hope that kind of works out but I just [TS]

  don't see how batteries gonna work out I don't see how the UI I don't know maybe [TS]

  it's me just not thinking through it enough but it's just I've not seen one [TS]

  of these things with a good user experience that would stand up [TS]

  yeah I I have a palpable which is seems it's broadly similar mean that the [TS]

  Google now stuff is a total difference but i dont give Google by personal [TS]

  information I don't put my flight information into Google as always the [TS]

  demos are always about goddamn flights to you know I i've you know I don't know [TS]

  if I i've never had a flight on my watch before but I've never missed a flight so [TS]

  I don't know that that's how great a Democrat is anything but I've had a [TS]

  device paired with my phone that shows all notifications from my phone on my [TS]

  wrist and makes my wrist buzz when I get a notification and its doesn't doesn't [TS]

  seem helpful at all it doesn't doesn't good for me wrong I mean I don't think [TS]

  this is going to be any more popular than public I don't think just showing [TS]

  notifications on your wrist is useful I do kind of like the idea of the wings [TS]

  watch that you link to the other day the activity that's how I was the only thing [TS]

  I don't like about the thing is it's name but it's it's a nice looking watch [TS]

  it's not our fault even the website at all attractive fashionable people doing [TS]

  interesting things and the woman is even swimming [TS]

  a wee bit of Bluetooth and it does put our distance tracking I think it has a [TS]

  swim out to so you can I know I think I've seen from the people or activity [TS]

  trackers that swimming is always been a little difficult to adjust you look at [TS]

  it though and it it strikes you as it's it's not i mean there's no digital [TS]

  display is truly analog but maybe that's a smarter idea maybe there's something [TS]

  to be done with that yeah I don't know if it's good for everybody liked to me [TS]

  like I said I think so as well as a typical $400 watch which in in Apple's [TS]

  terms means not at all but in terms of people who make watches could be fine [TS]

  little side business you know is it is it a sort of thing that a hundred [TS]

  million people are gonna buy no I don't think there's any chance of that is it [TS]

  something a couple of 10,000 people would buy sure which makes me wonder [TS]

  because it's just a minute so watching us got that dial and the dial is just [TS]

  the new moves from zero two hundred and and that's the kind of thing that [TS]

  anybody any watchmaker could add that feature yeah I could see that becoming [TS]

  like a new and you know that those sort of features becoming a bigger part of [TS]

  traditional watches there could be the next semester has that thing in it [TS]

  well that would be deceived like a Rolex be different as a Rolex isn't electronic [TS]

  at all thats to me in the chemical watch might be cut out of all of this because [TS]

  there's no electronics at all which is sort of the aesthetic beauty of a [TS]

  mechanical watch bill like the Withings watch is quartz watch and it takes a [TS]

  standard watch battery but it has to be electronic to do any kind of Bluetooth [TS]

  about but but most of the watches most people buying the world are quartz [TS]

  watches not mechanical watches so I still think that that the highest-end [TS]

  you know the mechanical automatic watches are still not gonna be part of [TS]

  this but the vast majority of traditional watches our courts and could [TS]

  be I think its time but I think that's part of I think the fact that it runs it [TS]

  advertised to run for a year on a standard watch battery is part of [TS]

  of that whole a design is how it works like not having to worry about the [TS]

  battery more than once a year is an enormous difference from the girl [TS]

  watches which by all accounts so far need to be charged daley like asking [TS]

  someone to add another device that you have to charge every day is I think it's [TS]

  an enormous barrier and in some cases a device that would take up another IP [TS]

  address might not matter for you and me at home but for corporate types yeah [TS]

  maybe I don't know I don't know did they need an IP address I thought it was all [TS]

  Bluetooth and I think so i dont know im instant hit him like a matching [TS]

  great I think that we all blindly tolerate the fact we have to charge our [TS]

  phones every day because the phones in you know we can't with none of us want [TS]

  to go back to pre iPhone smartphone life it worth it even though it's an enormous [TS]

  hassle whereas at some point in the decades to come [TS]

  abd decade to come we're not gonna have to charge your phone every day and we're [TS]

  gonna look back on the days when we'd go to the airport and everybody was [TS]

  fighting over electrical sockets and grown and grown man wearing suits are [TS]

  sitting on the floor of the airport so that they can power charger because the [TS]

  phone was dead at three in the afternoon we can look back and think my god we we [TS]

  live like animals [TS]

  adding another device with that sort of constant need for charging is an [TS]

  enormous hassle has to add two to make it worthwhile that people would actually [TS]

  go through with that it has to add a lot of utility I think whereas all I don't [TS]

  take my phone out of my pocket to see who just texted me I can just look at my [TS]

  rest to me doesn't cross that barrier [TS]

  close in the best case scenario is not you making your flight at the best-case [TS]

  scenarios not even having maps data on your wrist isn't compelling enough [TS]

  taking my phone in my pocket is not that hard right I don't think that the [TS]

  difference between taking my phone out of my pocket vs slipping my rest to be [TS]

  watch face visible is that much of a difference yes it is easier to look at [TS]

  my rest so I know and I do wear [TS]

  regular wrist watch when I want to see what time it is I do just look at my [TS]

  wrist I don't take out my phone but the difference isn't that great for most [TS]

  things like it totally makes sense to me it makes a lot of sense to me how an [TS]

  awful lot of people especially as they skew younger say I don't understand why [TS]

  you'd want to wear a timepiece wristwatch I just look at my phone like [TS]

  it's not that big a difference and that to me is the entire reason these things [TS]

  do exist other than the fitness tracking which there's a lot of awful lot more [TS]

  subtle solutions out there right you somebody's worried if it but you don't [TS]

  know it [TS]

  somebody's galaxy y her live SmartWatch and you know it because they've got a [TS]

  giant brick unrest if if only they could put on their face so I think these [TS]

  things are done on rival going nowhere and predict that if if Apple has [TS]

  something risk wearable to show this fall that it won't resemble these things [TS]

  it's similar to the argument to it the Daily Show thing about the Google glass [TS]

  explorers yes the the ability to access that information with Google glass [TS]

  without looking away from the person it's a similar argument being able to [TS]

  see the time without taking different in your pocket or to see your notifications [TS]

  that taking your phone in your pocket it takes a certain kind of person for that [TS]

  to be worthwhile it feels more like I think we can do with technology rather [TS]

  than solving a real problem yeah I it doesn't seem just seems like you've [TS]

  solved a very very small problem which is that on my phone out of my pocket and [TS]

  then you have to have your phone with you can't go out without the phone and [TS]

  still have a connection because you're not a Bluetooth rain so you can't just [TS]

  go for a run and leave your phone at home and do all the things you do on [TS]

  your phone because you've lost the connection it doesn't solve that bike [TS]

  that would be a true that would be a real problem solved but I think it's a [TS]

  social problem is that the real thing you don't want to do is take your phone [TS]

  out to look at a notification you're talking to somebody so you're not there [TS]

  not solving that problem they're just masking yeah and if you get if you look [TS]

  at your watch [TS]

  and it's important notification you can have to do it anyway and if it's not [TS]

  important notification why you getting a notification and it doesn't it at no [TS]

  point has ever been played too kindly check your watchman talking to somebody [TS]

  when the other things to do drives me nuts whenever I've tried and ratings and [TS]

  read defaults to showing a lot more notifications and all notifications put [TS]

  an icon in the status bar and I noticed during Ohio even on the demos that the [TS]

  cleaned-up prepared demos for the software that status bar was just chock [TS]

  full of notifications [TS]

  you know there's like three gmail icon because you've got three new messages [TS]

  for Gmail and I can't believe it doesn't drive people that like walking into [TS]

  somebody's house and disorganized I got stuff all over the place like dirty [TS]

  dishes out says I look around my office got like literally like 447 cardboard [TS]

  boxes from Amazon yet but if your gonna show pictures of your your home can you [TS]

  clean it up now well we keep my office I don't know I can't help but think that [TS]

  this is going to be another one of those things where Apple shows a wearable that [TS]

  looks nothing like these things does something different and the other thing [TS]

  too and that's just too tired all is a go back seven years celebrate the iPhone [TS]

  anniversary the other thing about the original iPhone seven years ago is when [TS]

  they first shipped it or showed it on stage it seemed too good to be true [TS]

  there was this and and famously like rim had like a meeting the next day where [TS]

  they they just their conclusion was Apple is lying about the capabilities of [TS]

  this device because it can't do the things that they're saying it doesn't [TS]

  last all day like there's nothing about these Google where the Android wear [TS]

  watches even the Moto 320 that makes anybody say I can't believe that they [TS]

  were able to build that this year [TS]

  well it doesn't help that they're sitting there telling everybody how it [TS]

  works but thats good thing is talking about here is how we got this together [TS]

  yeah but there's no aspect of the technology that that that is surprising [TS]

  or seems like wow that should that seems like it's from [TS]

  the future it's dead sort of Android Google's index philosophy thing away [TS]

  anytime you see even even the more popular Linux apps or the things that go [TS]

  it all has that error of people sitting around like a modern-day version of [TS]

  those electronics kiss you goodbye Radio Shack here's the stuff and here's what [TS]

  we can do it the stuff and I made you a video right which is cool if it's a [TS]

  bunch of kids making a hobby type thing our university project is pointless if [TS]

  its major initiative from you know one of the 10 biggest corporations in the [TS]

  world that wants to make a product for a billion people like if I went over the [TS]

  test and there is a kid showing off a wearable that was like Google glass I'm [TS]

  really impressed more of the same thing with these watches right I would be very [TS]

  very impressive looking like I get right Dave presenting their presenting this is [TS]

  something that maybe millions of people will be buying for Christmas this year [TS]

  and I think that it's not going to happen and I think Apple is either a [TS]

  gonna show nothing and they're not going to get into this or be there gonna show [TS]

  something that very different and then all of a sudden next year's Google [TS]

  Android wear watches will look an awful lot like the one that Apple unveiled at [TS]

  the end of 2014 and all the Google people are gonna be like yeah but we've [TS]

  had we had watches the year before to kill just because I was changed in the [TS]

  next year and happened to do exactly like the Apple there was always going to [TS]

  get there this is just the nature of it it it's funny that before the iPhone [TS]

  came out there is an all the rumors about it [TS]

  an Apple iPhone and iPhone they weren't close to the mark and nobody guessed it [TS]

  but there was a lot of imagination people you look at all these mock-ups [TS]

  these these fake phones that people put together in Photoshop and in 3d [TS]

  rendering software [TS]

  and people were people had a lot of interesting ideas of how Apple might do [TS]

  phone there's nothing like that for a watch know well and while the other [TS]

  thing know too well again I think that watches the wrong with look at it but [TS]

  there might be something like that for what you get your rest I don't know I I [TS]

  hope that Apple has something to show because I think if they do it's going to [TS]

  be really interesting and thoughtful and I think it's going to be a necessity [TS]

  push the boundaries of what we considered technically possible and [TS]

  there's nothing about that with the Google where stuff doesn't feel like [TS]

  magic at all now it just feels like well it seems like you know by now you ought [TS]

  to be able to make the equivalent of a two hundred you know an iPod Nano with [TS]

  with Bluetooth right as of today I'm not excited at all about Apple making a [TS]

  wearable thing that I put on my wrist I if they do it i hope that through Apple [TS]

  style be suddenly I'll be salivating over the thing I well I'm my optimism is [TS]

  because because it's not because I have a good imagination of what it would do [TS]

  cuz i dont I'm with you on that I can't imagine what they would make them go [TS]

  nowhere but my get my confidence that they're only on the ship something if [TS]

  they have an answer to that question that I just haven't thought about his [TS]

  eye on C I'm the big difference from 2007 his ID reason I was blown away as I [TS]

  really I would have considered impossible before the keynote to have [TS]

  aids quote-unquote stripped down version of OS 10 running if somebody would have [TS]

  said to me before here's what I think they're gonna do is gonna show they're [TS]

  gonna have an iPhone and its gonna run stripped down version of iOS 10 for [TS]

  touchscreens [TS]

  I would have had my response would have been well that's not possible maybe in [TS]

  the future that night I would agree with that so I think that whatever Apple's [TS]

  gonna have to risk is going to be that sort of thing I didn't think that was [TS]

  possible yet but here it is I think that that's really gonna come down to Battery [TS]

  I think that's a big shot and that's why I think that the weird thing I think [TS]

  that the the focus on iPhone Android style LCD displays in the Android where [TS]

  is why I wouldn't be surprised at all if that's the biggest reason they only get [TS]

  one day about it is because God because the display displays take someone to the [TS]

  battery you know like I said with Jonas before his he gets terrible battery life [TS]

  fulbright plays it's just an enormous enormous strain didn't Steve Jobs say [TS]

  that at one point that the biggest drain on the battery in the iPhone was the [TS]

  display yeah I can open secret I mean it's just simple you know just lighting [TS]

  up millions of this is why I think that with things activity steampunk [TS]

  approaches pretty smart yeah I'd I don't think I would actually I'll just go so [TS]

  far as to say I think I'd be very surprised if Apple's wearable is an [TS]

  iPhone style display on your ass and I don't know if it will be no display I [TS]

  don't know if it's like I think that just collects data but I don't I just [TS]

  don't see how running a display and therefore only getting one day of [TS]

  battery life [TS]

  a desirable comes out I don't know I think we're filled up the hour its rapid [TS]

  update whiskas people can can find you on Twitter what's your username this [TS]

  week [TS]

  deal with us deal with gasoline and got your own professional with Jamie [TS]

  Newberry and [TS]

  what's that app that I like that I like that up people can check that out it's [TS]

  on sale for the summer $2.99 and I think thanks to you you you said for the [TS]

  summer but what you wrote was until he sobered up to sober up we'll see how [TS]

  that goes to help us I I'll send you the audio and then get to work [TS]