The Talk Show

96: ‘The Edition Edition’, With Ben ‘Bengate’ Thompson


  I think you're about two months ago and i know im trying to mix it up with gas [TS]

  but I really really wanted you back now to talk about the watch will need a full [TS]

  range of opinions about it right and Renee and I last week just more or less [TS]

  scripted because we already filled up two hours with just the iPhone and and a [TS]

  tetra I forget if I said this to renew her put it in my review but I'm really [TS]

  do that I understand I think I put my review but I understand why Apple did it [TS]

  that way in terms of the event you know phone Apple pay and the introduction of [TS]

  the watch all at once but it really to me gave short shrift what's the short [TS]

  short shrift to to the iPhone sex to me and I understand why they did it but boy [TS]

  and as a writer someone trying to get a handle on all this it it was just [TS]

  impossible you know and you get you know thirty minutes forty minutes after the [TS]

  event to talk doubtful wraps and there is just no way it always seems to go by [TS]

  fast and I always come up with questions good questions as soon as I'm out of you [TS]

  know and the event is over but this time it was just impossible I was like I did [TS]

  I really felt like there is no way to ask all the questions I wanna do I [TS]

  wanted an hour to talk about both things you know the phone and what kind of bad [TS]

  news that the phone has gotten this week and obviously it's an annual tradition [TS]

  that there is some sort of some sort of gave you know every year [TS]

  spotlight had a great post on this thing that basically everyone comes down to [TS]

  people not understanding physics if you think about the the phone never got the [TS]

  positive cycle in some ways the the week where everyone's talking about the phone [TS]

  was drowned out by the watch and but it still got the necklace I climb out of [TS]

  its gonna hurt I don't think it's gonna hurt it really but it's interesting that [TS]

  the whole cycle has been kinda [TS]

  of upset a little bit yeah I definitely think so you know it's coming up on [TS]

  three weeks since the amount I think so there'll be three weeks come Tuesday so [TS]

  you know it just still feels like that I've found yet just never got the [TS]

  positive part everybody was so you know into the pay and the watch in the first [TS]

  week then they're just a few days you know that that brief period between 12 [TS]

  review embargo is over and then when they people actually get their hands on [TS]

  their phones [TS]

  Friday morning and then I was it you know [TS]

  yeah it's interesting I mean I obviously we should talk with him or the whole [TS]

  iPhone and watch being together because I thought pre-event and made a lot of [TS]

  sense because i win [TS]

  into the event working for the washroom or phone accessory and that was the [TS]

  microcosm of the event was that it was presented it wasn't really an accessory [TS]

  it needed it but it wasn't but if that's the case then maybe they didn't need to [TS]

  necessarily be presented together so either that it's actually really think [TS]

  about the the kind the the optics perspective of how they introduced both [TS]

  products they didn't need to be introduced together and part of why they [TS]

  didn't need to be is that the watch does work with I think all the way back to [TS]

  the 40 S or at least to the iPhone 5 maybe just iPhone 5 but you know at [TS]

  least 22 years of existing iPhones Tim Cook said Dorit there's at least a [TS]

  hundred million people out there that already even before the iPhone 6 it [TS]

  already owned an iPhone that compatible with the watch so they didn't need to [TS]

  like I think maybe if you know there's a story that came out this week that from [TS]

  the information that you know that Apple had been hoping to actually have the [TS]

  watch on sale this year [TS]

  rather than just announcing it and and hoping that it comes out early next year [TS]

  what they say they'd be lucky if it came out by Valentine's Day which is [TS]

  interesting but not surprising to me I mean of course they would rather have it [TS]

  come out sooner rather than later [TS]

  you know and like everything in all of us do most things end up taking longer [TS]

  than we had hoped this is where we know that well we're running an hour late [TS]

  which which is fine because I'm a writer to as I can appreciate you you just need [TS]

  to wrap it up but then I realized about Derek Jeter and I was much more conflict [TS]

  in my in my emotions oh that that was the hold up waiting to start the podcast [TS]

  yes which is financially I i appreciate dieter all that went down until you [TS]

  wrote in the article that it's been so long since the Yankees won in meanwhile [TS]

  I'm sitting here as Milwaukee Brewers fan we never learn anything and the disc [TS]

  sales representing you really crapped out this year 2000 brutal [TS]

  20 games over five hundred at one point I don't know was that many but they had [TS]

  like a 10 game with a division or something and it's it's it's it's it's [TS]

  the Brewers sometime about but I do think it helped though and that's why in [TS]

  our even said last week it why month prior in August that I sort of hinted [TS]

  that I thought the watchword be announced in the September event is at [TS]

  its combined with the fact that they do kind of go along with each other and if [TS]

  they were gonna talk about like health kit and you know I am a thing on the [TS]

  phone and fitness tracking they certainly are companions you know [TS]

  siblings in that regard [TS]

  you know that the information that's gonna fill up the health app is you know [TS]

  gonna come from those two sources gonna come from the phones gonna company watch [TS]

  if you buy the watch [TS]

  but it's also to me about how you set up the next event which I expect you know [TS]

  sometime in October you know as as per the previous three years where they'll [TS]

  do knew I pop pads and give yosemite a proper you know public unveiling right [TS]

  in a wooded definitely made even less sense they're right you've noted in [TS]

  what's the more the thing is like I mean I haven't evolved position on the other [TS]

  whites I was initially am quite critical that issued much more focus and limited [TS]

  now I think it's much more ambitious than I at first realized and not only [TS]

  that I think that's probably the right move it to establish the category which [TS]

  I'm sure we can get into a little bit but the fact that it was introduced with [TS]

  the phone only reinforced the sense that it's that it's a companion for the phone [TS]

  but the event itself presented that it was ending so like their end up being [TS]

  actually think more cognitive dissonance then then had it been at a separate [TS]

  event even made would've been awkward at another time but here was just just kind [TS]

  of strange and I think it almost muddied the message that I think they were [TS]

  sending yeah I think so too and I'm not sure whether that's a mistake or not if [TS]

  you like we have to wait and see how this plays out and it may not hurt them [TS]

  at all but I do think it was as the time goes by and I i wanna talk about this [TS]

  because I think it's been an interesting three weeks with no new information is [TS]

  actually come out right I mean we don't have any more information than what [TS]

  Apple told us and published on on Tuesday September night but I feel [TS]

  like a lot of us have our understanding and expectations for the watch have [TS]

  changed significantly [TS]

  you know yours publicly you know from what you wrote initially to what you [TS]

  published this week [TS]

  in mind too even though you know even since from what I wrote a week after the [TS]

  event you know and I was listening to and others another one that just came [TS]

  out today before I didn't get those into better listen in to the last week's [TS]

  episode of ATP and I thought that if you know I'd assume that most people listen [TS]

  to the show there's a large overlap between the audiences but if you you [TS]

  know only an occasional ETP listener episode 83 was a really good one for the [TS]

  watch because it was to me it was ATP added best where that the three of them [TS]

  were not in agreement and in a lot of ways no no two of them were in agreement [TS]

  on a lot of the issues surrounding the watch right which I you know made for a [TS]

  great discussion and the work their way into and out of a whole bunch of the [TS]

  problems surrounding the watch and and our understanding of it so that was a [TS]

  good one and there's a couple of points I thought of listening to it just want [TS]

  to talk to you that no I agree it was a great one told inside baseball when when [TS]

  Casey took on marco was was a highlight yeah that was the only other two of the [TS]

  three the one who agreed with the most was Casey Casey got it in a way I'd feel [TS]

  like the other two didn't ya know I i agree basically Marcos was saying how [TS]

  could you make an expensive item in case he pointed out that Marco drives you [TS]

  know a custom imported m5 which which i think is is bottoming we we go I know [TS]

  both you and I have gone back to the car analogy on multiple occasions just [TS]

  because it's it's it's such a great one like it makes it makes so much sense [TS]

  like there is no recording called reason for a BMW to exist there's no reason to [TS]

  drive an m5 NUS highways but people do it and they do it because it's it's [TS]

  giving them benefits beyond like the technology underneath it since it is [TS]

  more about you till yeah it's funny like oh I just mentioned the Jeter thing I I [TS]

  would imagine this is your [TS]

  argument for why people like Keith Olbermann are wrong to criticize Jeter [TS]

  just on staffs I i wud wonderful words in your mouth like there's a contention [TS]

  that there's more going on here than just what you can count with numbers and [TS]

  it's absolutely the same sort of thing with any product but particularly with [TS]

  something that you're that you're wearing that you're displaying to the [TS]

  world there's so much more that goes into it and the actual technical utility [TS]

  of what it does what it does not do this is such a classic talk show keeps coming [TS]

  back to Jeter but I do so I don't want to go to be have so much wats up to talk [TS]

  about and I know that there's a bunch of you out there to listen to when the [TS]

  sports stuff comes up you can start looking for fast forward button so I'm [TS]

  not gonna go sporty sports on it but that's the gist of it is secure older [TS]

  men is it I like him I'm a huge fan of his work he's but he's not really a [TS]

  straight news guy and maybe never really was but he's more of like the TV [TS]

  equivalent of a sports columnist he's an opinion guy and he had a rant on his [TS]

  show on ESPN last week [TS]

  know Derek Jeter is a fine guy but he's not one of the greatest players to ever [TS]

  play the game and everybody keeps going on and on about how one of the all-time [TS]

  grades is retiring and that is not and I you know not to put words in his mouth [TS]

  but his argument came down to look his stats just stats are very very good but [TS]

  they are not all time great and I to me it's exactly like the people like the [TS]

  Android people who everything is about specs [TS]

  you know and it's had a aid isn't that great because Jesus domi dual core we've [TS]

  been you know every every top-flight Android phone has been quad-core since [TS]

  whenever you know they're a bit 2 gigahertz in Apple's still down clocking [TS]

  them to one point whatever gigahertz and [TS]

  you know only one gigabyte of RAM they've been on and on and on spec wise [TS]

  and it's like if that's if you want to judge the iPhone compared to the HTC One [TS]

  or Samsung's Galaxy Note or the Galaxy alpha whatever it came out today based [TS]

  on that classic tech review checklist style you know how fast is the CPU how [TS]

  much RAM what is the benchmark on this or that you know you're never gonna get [TS]

  it you're not gonna get the difference between what Apple is trying to do and I [TS]

  think has largely succeeded year after year after you're doing you're not going [TS]

  to get it you know and I you know if that's what your mind works that's why [TS]

  you're an Android guy you know and you're happy for it you know I'm glad [TS]

  that you know Android is is as successful as it is for you but you you [TS]

  know you're you're trying to get the iPhone on the wrong thing and that's [TS]

  exactly looking at Jeter that way it's exactly is no I agree and and if I will [TS]

  continue to do your thing just for a moment I think I i've i've come around [TS]

  on it for the same reason in the defence's like one thing right Jeter's [TS]

  widely criticized for his defense and according to the stats rightly so he's [TS]

  he's not like he always makes the routine play never makes mistakes but he [TS]

  doesn't have great ranges and get as many balls as he can get the most iconic [TS]

  Jeter play is a defensive plays we're in the playoffs in a best-of-five series [TS]

  the Yankees are losing 20 and he makes this like totally just kind of random [TS]

  play to catch up miss thrown ball and put it to home plate to get the guy out [TS]

  basically saving the game in saving this evening the season and and what what I [TS]

  like about that and yes it's it's very cliched and it's almost too neat in some [TS]

  ways but thats Jeter's career nuts I guess is in the grand scheme of things [TS]

  like the the defensive measures like runs saved or something like that I the [TS]

  wording is but that one run was worth a thousand runs saved in the in the [TS]

  regular season right it was it was a playoff game against the Oakland A's [TS]

  days in gees 2003 2001 just 10 yet 2010 Yankees ended up didn't win the World [TS]

  Series A actually but the race is in that emotional that everything was [TS]

  pushed back a week because of 911 having occurred and you know that year in New [TS]

  York it was in Oakland which is a crazy ballpark and they were down 20 is a [TS]

  best-of-five series so they lost that game they were done right and it's just [TS]

  an errant throw to home you know and it missed the cut off guy who is possibly [TS]

  the first baseman and it Jeter had no reason to be there is no reason for a [TS]

  shortstop to ever be word Jeter was but he was there he saw it he saw the play [TS]

  you know it is a great example it's an absolute great exam or look at the other [TS]

  22 me to the other signature plays jeers career the two times that he went flying [TS]

  into the stands to catch a foul balls you know there is the one time inside [TS]

  his face got so busted out he actually come out of the game is faced resolved [TS]

  you know bloody look at you been in a boxing match be made the catch you know [TS]

  I don't know he's made catches my dad you know there's there's footage of him [TS]

  you know you can watch it you can you know look it up on YouTube and see him [TS]

  make big game playoff catches flying headfirst into the stand you know he's [TS]

  done it more than once more most guys finish the whole career and never make a [TS]

  play like that so I totally agree can't measure this whole thing is that thing [TS]

  in sports in general right there's been a big statistical revolution in in in [TS]

  sports are you breaking things out particularly baseball where that is [TS]

  actually works the best is baseball really is a one-on-one game it's not [TS]

  really a team game in some ways and between the picture in picture in batter [TS]

  and in many respects has been good it's been good for teams teams that have [TS]

  adopted this approach have excelled but like any sort of analytical based thing [TS]

  it gives you an advantage briefly but it's it's quite easily copied so now [TS]

  almost everyone does it in so the advantages are are West's much less than [TS]

  they were [TS]

  previously and what ends up mattering then and you see this and I think prime [TS]

  or basketball that which is this waterfall more closely than baseball is [TS]

  the importance of lots of the intangible stuff like how a team works together [TS]

  like how house stuff sits back and forth she had a team will you know as you like [TS]

  the Spurs winning the title despite not being the strongest team on paper and [TS]

  it's because there's clearly like something else going on and and i think [TS]

  thats so much of that applies to everything about technology in general [TS]

  previously in the eighties in the nineties businesses were buying it in [TS]

  the ideas someone the person buying it was different than the person is using [TS]

  it and that sort of scenario lends itself to feature West lent itself to [TS]

  price competition because the user experience is completely divorced from [TS]

  the buying experience but now it's more in the consumer space all these [TS]

  intangible things like what it's like to use it how you feel when someone sees [TS]

  you pull your pocket like all these little bits and pieces that you can't [TS]

  really measure become much more important and as that's happened Apple [TS]

  has benefited and as devices have become more personalized devices have become [TS]

  with us more often [TS]

  Apple has benefited or watch it very visible in with you all of the time I [TS]

  mean I would imagine is is celebrating at the opportunity because it fits so [TS]

  well with their strength yeah I completely agree with that I would say [TS]

  if you look at Apple's amount to the big picture and just look at them from the [TS]

  founding in 1976 today the miracle is that they've survived until now [TS]

  rape you know and and and now meaning let's say that iPhone in 2007 the iPod [TS]

  lets you know it's that thing that turned them around that they made it [TS]

  until 2001 when they could launch the iPod and and start to make you know to [TS]

  to really grow outside the tech world [TS]

  i befriend a good friend man was a fellow Yankees fan I think he listens to [TS]

  the show's program be thrilled talking about but he is my first met him he he [TS]

  asked me when he knew as Yankees fan from region in ordering fireball but his [TS]

  theory is a douche two types of sports fans stats stats fans and story fans and [TS]

  you know it's it's any any time you try to say there's only two type of people [TS]

  of course there's a grey zone and you know some stats guys are a little bit [TS]

  into the story sides some story guys are still interested in some of the stats [TS]

  I'm a story in his telling where it's why I just don't get into the numbers [TS]

  that much you know and it's why I believe in clutch hitting I believe in [TS]

  clutch performance and I know that's one of the stats guys things you know like [TS]

  you know the the Baseball Prospectus guys build James you know there's a [TS]

  theory that they try to back up that there's no such thing as clutch hitting [TS]

  and I i say you say there's no such thing as clutch hitting and I say there [TS]

  and I just don't see how you can deny it right and even know to back it up in one [TS]

  of them you know Jeter farewell thing is just chock full of all these statistics [TS]

  and stuff like that but one of the most amazing ones is up but it's he's played [TS]

  a hundred and fifty eight postseason games which is the bill regular baseball [TS]

  seasons a hundred and sixty two games and most guys would be lucky to play a [TS]

  hundred and fifty eight you know me even players weren't injured take a game off [TS]

  here and there so he's played easily the equivalent of a full regular-season all [TS]

  postseason which by definition is only against the very best pitchers and [TS]

  opposing teams [TS]

  you know every postseason games against a team that was good enough to make it [TS]

  in the postseason [TS]

  and he's got like 320 career postseason batting average you know enough to win a [TS]

  batting title most years and that's you know in the postseason know that that's [TS]

  really impressive because batting averages dropped significantly in the [TS]

  postseason right because the pitching a somewhat better so much better [TS]

  it's you know it's it's really that that's that's the way to win you know [TS]

  postseason baseball games have amazing picture you know it was like that with [TS]

  the member the White Sox when they won in 2006 when it here whenever you're was [TS]

  that the or whatever year the Chicago White Sox won a decade ago they they won [TS]

  the World Series in four games are for pitchers pitched four complete games [TS]

  because it's unbelievable that they had four pitchers who caught fire and we're [TS]

  just unbearable and they just want one two three four World Series that's like [TS]

  having a hot goalie in hockey or something do you have just about [TS]

  everything else and tech is exactly the same that there's story guys and that's [TS]

  guys and you know and the tech industry was so dominated by the stats the specs [TS]

  for so long because it was only tech people effectively you know everybody [TS]

  using a computer was a tech person for some reason you know that that's that [TS]

  was the the problem Apple faced in 1984 the Macintosh is they'd build a computer [TS]

  in a quote unquote for the rest of us in there were highest of us well there they [TS]

  had no interest in a computer you know it really kinda needed the computing [TS]

  world needed the internet and to make it a communications device that's something [TS]

  everybody wants to do everybody you know it's it's being able to communicate that [TS]

  turn the computer into something regular people wanted and by that time it was [TS]

  you know it was too late when does it become entrenched in you know when [TS]

  everybody got on the Internet it was a Windows dominated world yet no I think [TS]

  this is the key thing that people every time you hear someone talk about [TS]

  mattresses Windows it is actually had very little to do with the [TS]

  the underlying dynamics it had to do with the extra context and who was [TS]

  buying and all that all that sort of stuff in anyone who doesn't really talk [TS]

  about that you can take out in my opinion you know their opinion with a [TS]

  very large green assault because he did that the world was just so completely [TS]

  and utterly different then and there is actually very few lessons to be drawn [TS]

  today the famous brought this up in its you know maybe one of the all-time clam [TS]

  chowders of all time as commander tacos reaction to the original iPod in 2001 on [TS]

  Slashdot here's his whole comment after Apple released the iPod no wireless less [TS]

  space than a nomad lame so is all you know it was completely looking at it [TS]

  from the perspective real accident hindsight right he'd original iPod was [TS]

  lame but it it was a rational perspective from the point of view of [TS]

  the type of people who read / 20 for sure I'm surprised he forgot to put in [TS]

  was was way too expensive [TS]

  yeah yeah exactly where maybe you know it's [TS]

  to hit their prime factor you know does last doesn't have wireless we want [TS]

  everything to be wireless for whatever reason less space than oh man member [TS]

  nomads I mean who made that create the creative Zii had a diamond diamond was [TS]

  the other one I had a diamond real by a Creative Labs they're the guys who sued [TS]

  out all about the about the sound chip in the iPod actually won I think that [TS]

  that that single-handedly kept their company afloat for I think they might [TS]

  still be around X I'm not sure I buy a Creative Technologies of Singapore right [TS]

  whereas the you know there was some amazing technology in that original iPod [TS]

  like the 1.8 inch hard drive I think that's the size that it was was a new [TS]

  thing it was like nobody'd using there's some great stories I forget who [TS]

  published originally but it was what was the name that guy who was the [TS]

  he ended up at Palm yeah rubenstein rubenstein Jon Rubinstein was [TS]

  engineering head at Apple at the time and was over in asia like scouting new [TS]

  stuff and I think it was to Sheba who'd come up with these and they're like oh [TS]

  and we've got we've done this we've gone from 2.5 inch hard drives to 1.8 inch [TS]

  and nobody wants to buy them because everybody's putting hard drives the [TS]

  smallest thing anybody was putting hard drives into were laptops and laptops in [TS]

  2001 or 2001 every year was even the small ones the difference between 1.8 [TS]

  and 2.5 inch hard drives didn't make a difference so why spend in you know [TS]

  everybody told Toshiba why would we spend all this money we don't really [TS]

  need to save that base whereas rubenstein looked at them and died dad [TS]

  said that's the thing we can do this music thing with you know because 2.5 [TS]

  was way too big but what's so interesting about this whole story [TS]

  actually is it's very it's a very on Apple kind of story which in some ways [TS]

  the iPod is a bit of a non-apple type product but basically in Jan so the [TS]

  airport official release said like a review like about personal video that's [TS]

  the new desktop publishing and then they're like oh crap we missed the music [TS]

  boat and then Steve Jobs came out it actually are all we have a new [TS]

  strategies for the digital hub strategy and the center of NREGA in end the rest [TS]

  of the event were reintroduced this is Reggie was in January 2001 in the same [TS]

  event they introduced iTunes and they talked in this photo was using was [TS]

  ripped mix burn was the kind of catch phrase and the thing is the iPod didn't [TS]

  exist at all he did exist at Apple because Jon Rubinstein in go to Japan [TS]

  until February the next month and it was when he was in Japan he was introduced [TS]

  to you he saw the hard drive and it was the hard drive that [TS]

  was the genesis for the iPod and so is actually it's almost like completely [TS]

  backwards from the way we think about an Apple product being created in so the [TS]

  original iPad is put together like six months end and it was put together super [TS]

  fast it was totally driven by the technology but what came out was in a [TS]

  technological product it was a you know it was a it was a music player in there [TS]

  something like is very different to to be a to be a hard-driving is to be a [TS]

  music player and it's that kind of transformation from a technological item [TS]

  to a something that you desire because it makes your life better that than [TS]

  Apple's that is Apple that with is what Apple is so good at yeah you know get [TS]

  back to watch out for adult take a break in a moment we'll get back to watch but [TS]

  I do think you're right though and I think you even mention this [TS]

  strategically this week or was it you who mentioned that the iPod was sort of [TS]

  a non-apple like product and I think I mentioned I think I've yeah I did in the [TS]

  article about the watch and it's worth keeping that in mind I think thinking [TS]

  about what the watch is going to be or what their intentions are is it an iPod [TS]

  on your wrist or is it something more and I'm I'm with you that I think it's [TS]

  something more yeah I've tripped up by the iPod is a few times in my analysis [TS]

  like last year I originally said the phone would be much much cheaper than it [TS]

  was thinking about the iPod the iPod was always price competitive and I you I did [TS]

  within a week I think I think you chatted me at the time is now accepting [TS]

  can be very expensive and ended up being that basically the iPod was it was [TS]

  always is facing an accessory it was a single-purpose device a peripheral a [TS]

  previous exactly that the word it was a peripheral that was very cost [TS]

  competitive it was it was done in an apple way it was simple it was very well [TS]

  thought out beautiful and a shirt design but if you think about it every other [TS]

  Apple product of note has been a platform that's been a general-purpose [TS]

  computer and the the arc of Apple is to create a general-purpose computer that's [TS]

  smaller and more attractive in more accessible on the comp [TS]

  position and everything fits in that dark except for except for the iPod I [TS]

  don't think it makes any more sense than as it as it typical Apple product [TS]

  doesn't make any more sense then if in some alternate universe the quick take [TS]

  camera had really taken off and that Apple had become a major player in [TS]

  digital photography which of course they are now the phone is Albert you know [TS]

  what i mean i mean the quick tape was amazing [TS]

  forget what year they came out in the nineties but it was amazing and it was [TS]

  one of the first was super expensive compared to like film cameras but it was [TS]

  one of the first digital cameras that was at least plausible for someone down [TS]

  and it was amazing and it took like 320 height 320 pictures or something but in [TS]

  some world in some alternate universe that could have become hit especially I [TS]

  think if it did you know if jobs in his crew had gotten there a little earlier [TS]

  and cleaned up you know that the product development and I like they eventually [TS]

  did if it had been a little bit more of a job Z Apple product then sculley Apple [TS]

  product it might have been but it would've been weird travel to be selling [TS]

  something like a camera but no more weird than it was that they played that [TS]

  they were selling a walkman [TS]

  know totally I think the camera is a great example I think the other example [TS]

  that's interesting in telling is the laser writer actually where Apple [TS]

  actually was like when the preeminent printer manufacturers in the world by [TS]

  that was that they were never a printer company like that was that was to enable [TS]

  the Mac to enable desktop publishing all that all that sort of stuff but in both [TS]

  are both are examples of in 1811 not so much but of products Apple made but by [TS]

  no means define the company nobody thing yeah well as a printer and it all comes [TS]

  back to the this story / stats dividing the tech world where might you know and [TS]

  again this is super ancient history the laser stuff but my you know my [TS]

  understanding of that is [TS]

  Apple wanted others didn't even want to give them the printer business really i [TS]

  mean you know they take the money and they sold for a lot of money but you [TS]

  never know when they eventually got out there was nobody nobody was born without [TS]

  for the Apple printers you know it was never really the company's heart was [TS]

  never in it but it the gist of it was it couldn't get other companies to make [TS]

  them they're like hey you guys can build these laser printers and yes they'll be [TS]

  crazy expensive but look at the output we can do beautiful high resolution [TS]

  output and everybody you know the industry was like a dot matrix is good [TS]

  enough you know we don't need that you know where is the output was horrible [TS]

  from dot matrix printers yeah it's absolutely horrible yeah it's great is [TS]

  crazy to even think of that did you compare them but what's interesting [TS]

  though is yet the laser radar was in Wikipedia articles released the same day [TS]

  as PageMaker and it was way more expensive then was on the market but it [TS]

  had AppleTalk be used by multiple people the per-user cost was lower like it's [TS]

  funny you see almost all these characteristics of of a typical Apple [TS]

  product wrapped up in a printer which is that a weird to think about but I think [TS]

  the the rod takeaway is nobody thinks of Apple as a printer company and I'm [TS]

  definitely not going to reference the ways a writer when I think about [TS]

  analysis of the watch but on the same tone i think im not suree to be [TS]

  referencing the iPod when you think about analysis either let's take a break [TS]

  and I thank our first sponsor brand new sponsor really excited to have this a [TS]

  cool app for the Mac called you bother I get the look that lower case letter you [TS]

  capital be four bar upar upar it's a doc replacement for the Mac a doc [TS]

  alternative if you will cuz you can really replace the doc but you can [TS]

  configure it always take a power users stock so you can configure it like a dog [TS]

  like the Apple dock but better or you can use it a lot some in something [TS]

  that's more like a taskbar like from windows [TS]

  so if you're a Windows convert and taskbar from Windows is one of the [TS]

  things you really liked on Windows you miss it you bar is definitely something [TS]

  to look at and even if you're a Mac user but you've always thought that the [TS]

  window style taskbar the way that you can minimize in and and organized [TS]

  windows and stuff like that and apps is more to your liking [TS]

  also worth checking out all sorts of little touches the developer edward [TS]

  power is is really really focused on the details his hobby of actually been [TS]

  emailing he's is hubby is making mechanical watches which is just funny [TS]

  that you know the timing that its watches but he does really really [TS]

  amazing looking mechanical watches that he creates himself and it's like that [TS]

  level of detail in your bar like the kind of thing you'd expect from [TS]

  somebody's hobbies making high-end mechanical wrist watches so badges just [TS]

  as one example of the sort of detail little red circles you get on an app [TS]

  icon you bar does it in a way where no matter how many apps you have down there [TS]

  in the bar the badge always stays at the size the treatable as opposed to Apple's [TS]

  method where they just turned into little red dots in a corner of the [TS]

  window you can read them that one example he's got a thing called activity [TS]

  mode you hold down the Ctrl key on your keyboard and all the map tiles they [TS]

  switch from having their name underneath which in itself is a difference from the [TS]

  Apple App where you can actually have liked the name of the app the name of [TS]

  the window that you've minimize down there with those names change when you [TS]

  hold down the Ctrl key and a show you CPU and RAM usage internet so yeah it's [TS]

  also a replacement for activity viewer so if you feel like there's an app that [TS]

  mean you know you're worried that this would happen using them as CPU just put [TS]

  your mouse over the bar hold down the Ctrl key and it shows you exactly what's [TS]

  going on [TS]

  sort of thing for everybody no of course not sort of thing for nerds who want to [TS]

  run Activity Monitor awesome feature really really cool helps you kill any [TS]

  time you have been advocates where did that sort of a PDF to force quit you [TS]

  don't have to go hunting for it it just shows you right there in new bar want a [TS]

  nap is unresponsive against a special background color so you can tell right [TS]

  away [TS]

  plenty of custom customizability tons of it there's a dark theme like dark mode [TS]

  in Yosemite light theme that looks like the the menu bar in Mavericks you can [TS]

  add apps files you can favorite [TS]

  always show up instead of just showing you what's running version 2.0 came out [TS]

  in July 2 already up to version 2.2 sex he's updating it regularly it's really [TS]

  under heavy active development [TS]

  bottom-line his goal is he's working to make this the doc replacement for OS 10 [TS]

  so if you sort of user who wants to replace your doc you liked tinkering [TS]

  with system utilities and stuff like that check out YouTube are normally [TS]

  sells for 20 bucks but if you use the coupon code standard grouper all one [TS]

  word standard grouper you get 50% off some meaning you can get it for just 10 [TS]

  bucks and you can even better you can run in demo mode for four weeks so you [TS]

  get for four weeks to try it out before you have to decide really cool utility [TS]

  it's really well done I think anybody who loves it should check it out so my [TS]

  thanks to you buyer for sponsoring show save 10 bucks with coupon standard River [TS]

  standard I love that I prefer common brewery yeah [TS]

  maybe the next week's could just go to browser software dot com that's BR aww [TS]

  er s oft WA PRA wer [TS]

  our software dot com and find out more and use that coupon code and save half [TS]

  price half price for talk solicitors great deal so let's go back and let's [TS]

  just get into the watch so you've had an involved take on a watch like you [TS]

  mentioned earlier in the show that your initial take is that this it was too [TS]

  unfocused and is starting to your pad what was your initial take much I think [TS]

  I think your initial take represented an awful lot of people know for sure I mean [TS]

  it's one of the most popular cause I had quite a while which which is funny cause [TS]

  you're like oh you senior mine actually the feedback was very was very positive [TS]

  in favor of that piece i'm not i'm not winning any brownie points by by by [TS]

  switching basically a Christian was primarily about the event because I i I [TS]

  wasn't there I obviously couldn't use the watch so it's hard to get too much [TS]

  into the actual details but the event in general I compared and contrasted it to [TS]

  previous new product introductions so going back to the iPod going back to the [TS]

  iPhone and the iPad in all three cases Steve Jobs did a bit of exposition about [TS]

  why this product needed to exist [TS]

  what's the market what's the what's the problem people have what's out there [TS]

  oh and here's our new thing and it happens to fit the market and take care [TS]

  of problems in and all that sort of thing so that did happen with the watch [TS]

  what happens the watches and stage and he said oh here's the next door you know [TS]

  we're very excited we've been working very hard [TS]

  here's the next the next chapter in Apple's story in a new movie popped up [TS]

  you know I Q zoos great video is you're showing the initials and watch their [TS]

  part sunscreen [TS]

  but that that piece about why does this exists where in the market is a goal was [TS]

  was missing and that was that I was concerning to me it was that concern was [TS]

  amplified by the software demo which to my mind again going into the event I was [TS]

  thinking this was an accompaniment to the iPhone that's why I was being the [TS]

  iPhone this was my thinking going into it and in that way to make why are they [TS]

  doing a demo that doesn't leverage the iPhone like they were searching for [TS]

  movies on the watch they were working at all these photos on the watch like we [TS]

  have an iPhone in your pocket why when she used that to do this sort of stuff [TS]

  and so I might this demos kinda weird they didn't say why this has me a little [TS]

  worried about the about the whole concept yeah I completely so why would I [TS]

  want to buy this [TS]

  Why Why What What do you know what is the job to be done to to use the I was [TS]

  gonna say horace but I guess he took that from her since then click [TS]

  Christians but you know it's just a way to put in context but yet what what what [TS]

  are you hiring the watch to do and I don't think they answered that but I and [TS]

  I'm again [TS]

  time will tell on this front it's either a sign that that they have lost focus [TS]

  post jobs and it is the first you know we're really gonna look back at that [TS]

  introduction event as the first warning sign that Apple is in trouble and is [TS]

  going to isn't going to do the same good job with a new an altogether new product [TS]

  as they did before or it'll be forgotten and it was cuz it was it was on purpose [TS]

  either it's either one or the other [TS]

  either they purposefully left it largely mysterious and they're gonna save that [TS]

  why or what I presumed to be the event in January or February where they're [TS]

  going to say ok now it's going on sale and here's everything you need to know [TS]

  about it [TS]

  all the prices all the features here's what the SDK can do you know all of that [TS]

  stuff is going to come in a separate event and that they did this sort of [TS]

  Caesar event for strategic reasons that will be clear after them watch actually [TS]

  comes out cuz that's the best to me that's the best way they like the [TS]

  difference between a preview that supposed to tell you everything you need [TS]

  to know to make you want to go see this movie or a teaser thats just supposed to [TS]

  put the movie in their head that know that so that's that's a good analogy to [TS]

  do you think about it I think there's also another explanation to I think it's [TS]

  possible in January 27 not not as clear as it could be in the reason that is is [TS]

  actually I cheated when I did that new product introduction because I didn't [TS]

  include the Mac and actually did go back and watch the Mac event but it didn't it [TS]

  didn't fit as neatly as the if you actually go back the Mac introduction [TS]

  was almost identical to the watch introduction it was good job saying [TS]

  we've been working super hard this sort of thing and then like there's this long [TS]

  like what what's the what's the what's the song you know the [TS]

  end US suppliers like that [TS]

  onl that right right it wasn't the one from 2001 it was the chariots of fire [TS]

  sauce yeah I think that I think so at all never did you move via wash actually [TS]

  was for copyright reasons like them all the music was taken out but if I [TS]

  recalled that that's what it was and then he pulled her review reveals the [TS]

  Mac like he was very it's funny like you actually ended up being a lot like the [TS]

  watch and I'm not sure that's a great president of us in the long run the Met [TS]

  turned out well but as we just discussed it had a bit of a struggle at the [TS]

  beginning but at the same time if if you look back at the iPhone nothing in that [TS]

  event was actually very pertinent to the will use iPhones today and that didn't [TS]

  make the event a bad event to remains an amazing event kind of like Steve Jobs [TS]

  like all time on the all-time great get worse it's it's number one but at the [TS]

  same time when you're creating a platform when you're creating a new [TS]

  thing that that is going to create all kinds of new opportunities it's almost [TS]

  by definition impossible to know the beginning with that are going to be [TS]

  remembering Steve Jobs and others confuse there's contentious use UPS did [TS]

  or didn't want the App Store I'm in the camp that believes he did not want it he [TS]

  thought that Apple can meet all the needs that the phone are to serve when [TS]

  actually that wasn't even close to being true and I think there's a way to look [TS]

  at this watch event and that Apple maybe they didn't articulate as well as they [TS]

  could have but they're they're not they now realize that they know that we [TS]

  create platforms there's no way we can ever even fully know what this is going [TS]

  to do and we've created a foundation for something really great [TS]

  I am of the opinion I think it's pretty clear he didn't want an app store in [TS]

  2008 which is when the actual absurd came out I think that his I think he did [TS]

  I i I think they must have known that eventually they would do it but I think [TS]

  that he thought it was a this does not need to be a top priority for the next [TS]

  year you know we've got so many things to do in this first phone is so you know [TS]

  has so much room for improvement that the last thing we need to worry about is [TS]

  the App Store SDK angle right and all the women that imposes on you and I [TS]

  think that if you had had if we could go back in time and have honest discussion [TS]

  with Steve Jobs in the summer of 2007 you know and people started jailbreaking [TS]

  an hour I mean like in July I mean like weeks after the thing came out like to [TS]

  me that story is one of the great things in in indeed Mac development history was [TS]

  the way that you know the first couple of developers who jumped on that I mean [TS]

  like the first version of Twitter effect was written before there was an SDK [TS]

  hockenberry had a version of Twitter client running on the iPhone before [TS]

  there was an SDK I love that but the demand it was just i i think he did [TS]

  underestimate how badly the people who became indeed pilots developers wanted [TS]

  to be able to do that but I do think you're right to that he you know the [TS]

  nature of his personality was such that he assumed that his he wanted the phone [TS]

  did do was what most people would want to do and it would cover a broader swath [TS]

  of you know why people would want it and that's what's so interesting about this [TS]

  is a lot of people were disagreeing with me now so my position now has evolved to [TS]

  the I i dont think Apple is making in [TS]

  accessory I think they're making a new platform are more white people disagree [TS]

  with that one [TS]

  want the Apple defined vision they wanted super clear what it's going to do [TS]

  but in the end they referencing in I did the same things are not liked by any [TS]

  means [TS]

  criticizing a very valid point of view they reference kind of like the iPhone [TS]

  but Steve Jobs vision for the iPhone ended up being too small in a lot of [TS]

  ways i mean that that that's not true in a big sense but in this kind of narrow [TS]

  sense about what ought to run on it and win you are to enable of that stuff to [TS]

  run on it not just not just too small in the 3.5 inch too small in the conceptual [TS]

  ratings actually end and you know it is a grade for all 40 for the kind of [TS]

  pining that this sort of talk can inspire for Steve Jobs and for his way [TS]

  of interesting products in the way he was such a master it's textbook like [TS]

  this isn't like particularly Steve Jobs just did better than anybody else like [TS]

  use the best salesman in the world like you have this problem you're right I do [TS]

  that problem [TS]

  work at the competition they don't really work man lol suck [TS]

  went to be great if there is something that mental your needs to be Asamoah who [TS]

  is introduced here's my money taken just walked you through that so perfectly and [TS]

  I do think that in some ways missing but at the end the day the needs he ended up [TS]

  selling weren't the ones that were actually key to the product remained a [TS]

  wildly broadly successful but they were good enough to get it off the ground I [TS]

  mean and you know what those those things are still reflected in the [TS]

  default dark of the iPhone today right [TS]

  the Steve Jobs iPod iPhone iPad I said I but I'm an iPhone the dock before I [TS]

  absent the bomb phone mail [TS]

  Safari and was called iPod back then that's where I started getting tripped [TS]

  up and now it's music that's what he wanted right he wanted a device that [TS]

  plays music and it would be a cellphone any kid throw out whatever piece of [TS]

  garbage from Motorola was using at the time he could do is email and he could [TS]

  browse the web and there you go there's the product and that was awesome that [TS]

  were alone would have been enough right and the thing is like I think Apple but [TS]

  it would have been enough would've been enough to make it compelling product it [TS]

  would not have been enough to make it a world-changing product which is what it [TS]

  has eventually become right now that that's exactly and I think the reason [TS]

  why in this is what makes the watch interesting is Apple actually in some [TS]

  ways has has some of those pieces they're like there's a slight return for [TS]

  Catholic the three things like the great timepiece its health and physical [TS]

  fitness is like the most personal communications device or something like [TS]

  that with 3:03 a.m. so the fact that I can't remember it is indicative now the [TS]

  personal [TS]

  maybe the personal communication right that the three things that they're kind [TS]

  of selling a watch on it at the event this month of water fitness tracking [TS]

  time telling yup and the personal communication why would the thing is [TS]

  those like I mean even more so than the phone like the use case for the phone [TS]

  was so obvious radio just to make a better for just to make a better phone [TS]

  would have been enough to sell a lot just to make a better Nike FuelBand is [TS]

  not enough to sell because the the you're not compete with the iPad just to [TS]

  make a better music player was enough to sell but because what was the [TS]

  alternative to carry your computer around the alternative was was a [TS]

  non-starter the alternative to watches to use the phone in your pocket like the [TS]

  the the competition for even considering buying a watch in the first place is far [TS]

  steeper today than it was for any any product except maybe the iPad is by the [TS]

  best [TS]

  is is probably the best comparison here like why would you buy an iPad if you're [TS]

  ready if you already have a map and so for that reason is I i this is the [TS]

  biggest change my mind like I think Apple releasing up focused product would [TS]

  have been a niche product that would never get great traction because it [TS]

  would never be the Delta over just point for your pocket never been great enough [TS]

  like they needed a swing for the fences and it's probably raising risk right but [TS]

  the way you do a great return is by taking on greater risk and I think [TS]

  that's what Apple's done I very very very much in agreement with that i think [TS]

  is your PC or peace actually your own piece that triggered this particular [TS]

  realizations I i'm glad you're here in agreement which phone he's the [TS]

  observations on initial observations on the phone basically you kept you kept [TS]

  referring to the fact that if Apple would have only done like notifications [TS]

  interactive device you've been worried about the future of the company or [TS]

  something along those lines like why is he being so hyperbolic and then I i [TS]

  basically thought about it like well that that triggered that's what [TS]

  triggered me thinking through like what if they only did this will be the [TS]

  implications of that and as my pieces they only did that they're actually be a [TS]

  lot of long-term negative effects from limiting the potential the platform to [TS]

  winning the potential market all would be bad for very bad for Apple and which [TS]

  is why I think they rejected that approach and I presume was your your [TS]

  thinking as well yeah I think so a little thing just a side note one thing [TS]

  that they've said publicly I think they said it at the event or at least they [TS]

  said it after the event in like on the record [TS]

  statement not like off the record and then I think Tim Cook repeated it in his [TS]

  interview with Charlie Rose which was excellent [TS]

  really really interesting just one of the best interviews I've ever seen with [TS]

  anybody related to Apple ever but they came out and said that they've been [TS]

  working on this for three years and they never [TS]

  ever say stuff like they are super secretive about how long they've been [TS]

  working on stuff they never said how long they were working on the iPhone and [TS]

  it took years and stuff that was I think mostly off the record for it to come out [TS]

  that way that the iPhone came about was that they were working on a tablet and [TS]

  the tablet got pretty cool and then they had this moment where they were like [TS]

  wait a second screw this tablet size for now let's take this tack and shrink it [TS]

  can we shrink it to be a phone bill there's the phone they don't they don't [TS]

  they never talked about that because they don't want people to know how they [TS]

  were right there is something part of the new Tim Cook Apple is the simple [TS]

  fact that they said that they've been working on this for three years and I [TS]

  can't help but think that part of that is that they kind of wanna say this [TS]

  whole thing is after steve has three years is a long ago steve Jobs died like [TS]

  I don't think that's a coincidence that they're saying that publicly and it's a [TS]

  way of saying that I I think it's a sign of confidence in the watch but they're [TS]

  setting it up in advance that they think this thing is they're on to something [TS]

  they think it's going to be huge and they don't want people to say well but [TS]

  Steve Jobs invented as part of the last thing he invented now show me something [TS]

  that you can invent you know without Steve Jobs that's interesting piano [TS]

  makes total sense so for example I remember when I got to take that and [TS]

  tenant or after antennagate and they took a bunch of us back into their [TS]

  antennae testing lab we got to see you know these cool chambers where they test [TS]

  these things [TS]

  forget the guy's name is the the antenna engineer who led the tour and he was a [TS]

  little nervous he did great but he was a little nervous because he just is not [TS]

  used to speaking to the press is you know is an Apple employee he says the [TS]

  last thing he does speak to the press and you know a week prior you know he [TS]

  had no idea it was like this antenna thing blew up and within the course of a [TS]

  week now here he is leading twenty people around Apple's you know lab and [TS]

  Schiller and Katie cotton were were part of the group to but they you know just [TS]

  walking around sort of supervising and somebody asked at one point they were [TS]

  talking about the external antenna design which was brand new on the iPhone [TS]

  4 nobody else had ever done it and initial reaction from a whole bunch of [TS]

  people as well that's a stupid idea the reason nobody else does that is it a bad [TS]

  idea and then the antennagate thing came up and he said he touches here and you [TS]

  lose your cell phone and they relate see told you terrible idea [TS]

  Apple is terrible engineering company about what we're talking about it with [TS]

  him on the tour and somebody I know but you know one of the writers asked what [TS]

  how long have you guys been working on that antenna design and he was gonna [TS]

  answer honestly and Schiller immediately jumped in and said we're not going to [TS]

  talk about how long we've been working on the antenna design I mean like just [TS]

  come right off it was sort of an awkward moment because it was something they did [TS]

  not want to say you know they wanted to say how the you know this antenna is [TS]

  actually is a good designed trust us you know this is going to work out this this [TS]

  issue within 10 uation when you touch it at the wrong spot is a real thing but [TS]

  it's not that big a deal but there is no way that they were going to mention how [TS]

  long that this guy had been working on an external antenna design be added as [TS]

  interesting a Reuben and that's just the antenna design let alone saying you know [TS]

  we've made from scratch to shipping i watchin three-year are able watchin [TS]

  three years ya know for sure i mean the the whole Apple PR things interesting [TS]

  when he mentioned that two of the labs a robot in my daily update this week where [TS]

  that it now that was a good twenty two days I think after [TS]

  ur the antennagate story first broke I'm busy photo of all places where is this [TS]

  week two days after the mint iPhone story broke the iraqi people tours of [TS]

  the labs I think they're really learned their lesson on getting ahead getting [TS]

  ahead of such things we did she take to interrupt the watch to talk about than [TS]

  Benghazi gate I mean I thought I think antennagate is probably the best way to [TS]

  think about it i mean the iPhone 4 was on sale until I think a week ago and it [TS]

  sold hundreds of millions of units right arm and I think that's pretty much all [TS]

  that needs to be said I mean the idea that Apple would not would not be aware [TS]

  or a tested this sort of thing is preposterous and given their track [TS]

  record I very well indeed and benefit out in a guy as someone who has [TS]

  criticized Apple in in various forms like I'm not it's it's preposterous to [TS]

  suggest that they didn't know or didn't have a particular tolerance that the [TS]

  reason the reason it takes any hold though is that it plays into the [TS]

  misconceptions stereotype of Apple right that they would do something like make [TS]

  an antenna design that looks awesome and save space to make the device dinner but [TS]

  then have it not even be able to make phone calls like that's the worst you [TS]

  know the worst stereotype of Apple you can imagine and it's such a delicious [TS]

  sound-bite you know world-famous I found new new model can't make phone calls it [TS]

  sounds so amazing and then there you know it it's the perfect type thing for [TS]

  broadcast right the TV people really are the ones that made that catch fire and [TS]

  the band thing has exactly the same you know Apple so desperately 100 or [TS]

  desperate but over interested obsessed with making devices thinner made a phone [TS]

  so thin that it bend when you put in your pocket right now I think I I think [TS]

  the the key thing too is as you just said like there was an antenna issue [TS]

  it's just it is the issue of bones on the Verizon iPhone came out six months [TS]

  later there was a different antenna design and so it's not to say that [TS]

  there's not a problem I don't think either just saying that i mean clearly [TS]

  you know mat mat Honan anything and wired in his his phone bank tonight we [TS]

  have no reason to doubt him but at the same since I would imagine if the six [TS]

  plus as so whatever it's called next year comes out that there's going to be [TS]

  something slightly different in the chassis or even right now the changes [TS]

  now 222 restricted but the same time I go there is a very wide canyon between [TS]

  there are very isolated circumstances where this might happen to oh my god the [TS]

  house on fire that's coming down and I think that that's what's so frustrating [TS]

  about about these sort of gates yeah well it's it's that that that adage that [TS]

  it requires an order of magnitude more effort to refute bullshit than it does [TS]

  to create it it's so hard it's the fact that it's bullshit that makes it so hard [TS]

  to refute you know like comparing contrast with the 8.01 iOS update that [TS]

  affectively bricked a bunch of iPhone sixes I mean I think Apple said that it [TS]

  affected about [TS]

  wound up it was out in the wild and wound up affecting like forty or fifty [TS]

  thousand pounds [TS]

  which is I guess good compared to those you know 200 million people using [TS]

  iPhones in the world but still forty or fifty thousand people who just within [TS]

  the last week have spent upwards of six seven eight hundred dollars on a new [TS]

  phone had a software update that rendered the phone [TS]

  unusable and it was a solution they did have to take it back it wasn't like the [TS]

  phones will permit you know you just had to go through the hassle of downloading [TS]

  it in iTunes syncing it to a PC and I'm sure that's actually also above beyond [TS]

  the technical can have many users and so some people probably did have to go to a [TS]

  store you know go to an Apple store and get it fixed but it was a real issue is [TS]

  a real problem it was an actual botched iOS update and Apple you know issued a [TS]

  statement it said we're really sorry we screwed this up this was terrible sorry [TS]

  we're working on a fix as fast as we can [TS]

  sorry we still we mentioned it was sorry and it was over you know that said it [TS]

  was a real issue they dealt with it everybody kept it in perspective because [TS]

  it was real right and its I don't know why I said this would mark of the folks [TS]

  in a Marco and his wife had this problem but with the iPhone 4 there was an [TS]

  actual really bad technical problem which was the sensors that you know one [TS]

  day when you hold up your face [TS]

  member that it was they did not work correctly at all and that was a real [TS]

  thing and it was really affecting people with the phone and there was nothing you [TS]

  could do you know it's you know it was a real thing and it got like 11 thousand [TS]

  the publicity that the antenna thing then you know in meanwhile a you said [TS]

  the iPhone 4 was on sale until two weeks ago in some parts of the world GSM not [TS]

  the Verizon the GSM iPhone 4 with an absolutely unchanged antenna [TS]

  was on sale until last week told you know is tremendous numbers for years and [TS]

  years and years and everybody just sort of forgot it but yet people still bring [TS]

  it up on Twitter lessees use Diaz even brought up as a kid somebody said [TS]

  something like this is the worst part of tech press and he was like the worst [TS]

  part is you know people like grouper who still denied denied antennagate people [TS]

  are still hung up on that people still think that there was like in their [TS]

  twisted view of history they think Apple had a phone that couldn't make phone [TS]

  calls and everybody just brush it under the rug yeah I know that there's always [TS]

  a lack of connie was interesting is a gamble in some ways it has benefited [TS]

  right because they they weren't criticized for the sense of the iPhone 4 [TS]

  and this week in you could argue they've gotten less criticism they deserve for [TS]

  the 8.0 points 1 update which that's a terrible terrible bug and it is very [TS]

  concerning about how that gets released and there's there's a wide like there's [TS]

  so much potential for actually real serious investigation in criticism as [TS]

  opposed to your bullshit outings and was named crap that Bloomberg called Black [TS]

  there there it is a very real issue I think part of the reason it was it was [TS]

  not really focused on was because everyone's talking about bending and it [TS]

  is in that it's frustrating as someone you know that what once if you want [TS]

  Apple to create good products you should be way more worried about a point open [TS]

  one in my opinion should be worried about the bending yeah because it's the [TS]

  sort of thing that could happen you know feels like it could happen and we could [TS]

  happen to me i i happened to not been paying attention at the time that it was [TS]

  out in wild and by the time I was I knew not you know to ignore the update [TS]

  but I could have easily installed that and the other thing I think long-term [TS]

  that that issue you know that the 801 update does that I think it's harmful is [TS]

  it puts the seed out there that hey be careful of of updating your iPhone [TS]

  because it could be ruined and then it makes some number of people less [TS]

  reluctant to stay up to date which hurts apple and developers in the long run by [TS]

  you know increasing fragmentation that that's a that's a great point and no [TS]

  real point but you know again lost lost in the shuffle of the Great Bend gate [TS]

  scandal 2014 yeah and at the Benghazi name is funny for some reason I just [TS]

  can't get over stuck with a stuck with bent gate I think that that the real [TS]

  Benghazi I think it's such an overblown fake scandal not added the tragedy of [TS]

  people dying is not serious but the idea that there's anything that was being [TS]

  covered up is just a bunch of right-wing nonsense but the people who believe it I [TS]

  really really into it and think it's the most important under reported political [TS]

  story of the entire Obama administration and I guess it best to stay away from [TS]

  joking about it so if you're out there and you're offended by me [TS]

  joking about it I retract the joke cuz it's not that funny joke was just so [TS]

  happens though that it's such it is it verbally at work so well you just put a [TS]

  DNR and it's always live in again whether the ten-foot pole but it only [TS]

  works as a joke though if everybody sees the real Benghazi scandal the way I do [TS]

  as a completely overblown hype whereas if there's you know twenty percent of [TS]

  the people listening to the show [TS]

  think it's actually an outrage and a tremendous kindled in the you know has [TS]

  the wrong effect because it makes it seem as though you know the been gate is [TS]

  bending it is a real issue right now I that's exactly it and I i that's the [TS]

  same reason I've been using bengay as well which is my name [TS]

  take another break here thank our next sponsor and it's our good friends at [TS]

  fracture for a CT ure everything all of photos we take me over to her talking [TS]

  about that digital cameras and all the photos we take with their iPhones how [TS]

  sad is it that they all all of them end up trapped somewhere like your camera [TS]

  roll on the phone or an Instagram feed and we end up looking at him on these [TS]

  tiny little well I guess for now some of this phone screens her so tiny but [TS]

  they're still relatively small I know we lost some with them when we stop getting [TS]

  photos printed and having something we can handle all fracture that's exactly [TS]

  what they do you send them your digital photos they print them directly on pure [TS]

  glass so it's not like a piece of paper in a frame with glass in front of it [TS]

  they actually print on the glass i've i've said that every time I say it it's [TS]

  the same sort of effect like with these phones the way that the iPhone keeps [TS]

  getting the pixels closer and closer to looking like pixels on glass as opposed [TS]

  to pixels under glass that's the effect of tractor as with photos it looks like [TS]

  photos on glass which is really what it is and it's a really cool effect they [TS]

  come with a foam back that's ready to mount right out of the box you don't [TS]

  have to take it in and get a frame put it in a frame and then hanging you just [TS]

  buy your fracture it shows up you open the cardboard box and there it is ready [TS]

  to hang on your wall [TS]

  ready to to put it up on your desk or everyone put these photos such a great [TS]

  service really really impressed with the quality of the output we have a bunch of [TS]

  them here at home [TS]

  also an amazing gift really great gift you know for family members if you want [TS]

  to send you know grandparents pictures of the kids or stuff like that and it's [TS]

  also a real cool talking point where they're like well and once they see how [TS]

  it you know it's actually this thing printed on glass nobody out there were [TS]

  words heard of these guys it so it it makes you seem like you're you're [TS]

  totally in the know of like this amazing stuff really great gift and they have [TS]

  called code just for listeners of the show [TS]

  Gruber GRU BER just my last name and you'll save 20% off any order they've [TS]

  got all sorts of sizes from little five by five ones to really big ones as big [TS]

  as you could want all sorts of sizes really great service really great output [TS]

  so use the coupon code grouper you'll save 20% off and go check them out at [TS]

  their website for actor fracture and remember that code grouper my [TS]

  thanks to fracture so so I think I we've been a little over the place on the [TS]

  watch but I've been I've been very popular I personally have been all over [TS]

  the place I written four pieces now that of you know there's kind of an arc where [TS]

  I i'm or oppose all the way to I think this is really ambitious effort into the [TS]

  future I i'm only written in the one you've written a couple to few pieces [TS]

  with commentary like I think I speak for a lot of your readers that these curious [TS]

  unlike the groomer exposition of out the watch [TS]

  so we're going my way i thought id I thought it had something we could go a [TS]

  second follow-up and I'm still it's still like liquid state it's not [TS]

  solidified but you know this why do the show it can talk me through it [TS]

  bottom line here we are an hour and ten minutes into the show his thesis [TS]

  statement visa statement is [TS]

  Apple watch I believe is intended to be a completely standalone platform for [TS]

  compute personal computing and its relationship to the iPhone this is not [TS]

  wholly original I've heard other people say this you know speculate but I try to [TS]

  put it very clearly its relationship to the iPhone is very much analogous to the [TS]

  original iPhones relationship to iTunes running on your PC or Mac right when you [TS]

  got the first iPhone in 2007 you can even activated without iTunes you had to [TS]

  actually plug it into your computer and run iTunes and activated on AT&T through [TS]

  your Mac it was you know that they just didn't have the full stack didn't have [TS]

  everything ready to go for it to be the standalone device that it is today you [TS]

  can be a fully functioning iPhone user with no other computer products or you [TS]

  know you could just use it with an iPad and never pair of the two and your [TS]

  backups go to the cloud for software updates come over the Howard and you [TS]

  never never connected to a Mac or PC I think that's a relationship the watch [TS]

  will have the phone where eventually it will do for WiFi and eventually it'll [TS]

  have a SIM card and will do so your networking and that doesn't mean you [TS]

  know and again this comes to one of the topics on ATP like Marcos things never [TS]

  bet against the smartphone and that's a good point that the smartphone is sort [TS]

  of an optimal it's sort of an endpoint you know obviously you know the size can [TS]

  fluctuate a little bit but the basic idea of the thing that you can carry in [TS]

  your pocket [TS]

  don't bet against it you know there are some of us myself included who thought [TS]

  that the iPad might grow to be bigger than the iPhone or at least grow to be [TS]

  the same size and it's not it's super successful tablets are huge deal the [TS]

  iPad is the most successful and it is very successful but it is not as popular [TS]

  in the United successful as the phone so I wouldn't say that when I say that the [TS]

  watch will be a stand-alone platform that [TS]

  need a phone that doesn't mean that everybody is going to ditch their iPhone [TS]

  and just do everything on the watch I just think it means so that some people [TS]

  they could that they won't have they don't they won't need to carry a phone [TS]

  in a pocket so I i I completely agree I i've set actually made the same analogy [TS]

  on a previous version of exponent I wear my co-host vehemently disagrees and we [TS]

  definitely got into it but I think the the the phone for the watch is an [TS]

  implementation detail and I think that's that's critical to understanding the way [TS]

  out pool I think introduced it is because it would imagine Apple had [TS]

  introduced the iPhone and they had said oh well you don't need to manage music [TS]

  on your phone because you can do it on iTunes on the balcony over right which [TS]

  is what they did did with the with the iPod the problem is is that would have [TS]

  you know a few years down the line it would have been so much more difficult [TS]

  if not impossible for Apple to make the iPhone a truly stand-alone device like [TS]

  from day one [TS]

  the iPhone even though it even though it needed a Mac it had to be designed as if [TS]

  it did indeed a Mac in all the fundamental assumptions and I think it's [TS]

  the same thing with the same thing with with the watch you can't build in the [TS]

  assumption the phone is there if you know it's gonna be going away also [TS]

  you're limiting your lowering the ceiling your warning that the potential [TS]

  and I think the difference in the eighth from the iPad is this is smaller and [TS]

  when it comes to when it comes to design is all broken strength in what's the [TS]

  controlling constraint the controlling constraint when you're at your desk is [TS]

  not size it's not wait its comfort its productivity it's why I'm sitting here [TS]

  in front three monitors and ergonomic keyboard and mouse but when you're [TS]

  moving around the chief constraint is portability and the fact of the matter [TS]

  is is a watches more [TS]

  portable than a phone so not next year not to you for that meeting in five [TS]

  years on the road but ten years down the road it's it's very easy in my opinion [TS]

  to see me how caring a much larger smartphone West frequently because I [TS]

  always have watch I think plea agreement accepting 10 years is too long and I [TS]

  think goes back to the bill gates added which is probably one of the smartest [TS]

  things he's ever said but then we Aztec people perennial II vastly overestimate [TS]

  how much we can do in one year and underestimate how big the changes will [TS]

  be in 10 years over and over and over every year every decade I think ten [TS]

  years is too long consisting about the phone man of the phone is still only 77 [TS]

  years ago that we had the original I when did the phone come completely [TS]

  standalone when was it that I guess it was probably with iCloud so that would [TS]

  have it would have been i think twenty the iCloud [TS]

  jobs yes steve jobs left right right right he did the original iPad [TS]

  introduction in 2010 and then he made a surprise appearance at the second iPad [TS]

  event when he was technically on medical leave and any was a WBC and that was the [TS]

  last time so 2011 so that was four years from when the original iPhone came out [TS]

  and at that point you know it was you know for 45 years give i you know i [TS]

  close a year to bake a guess but within five years the iPhone was wholly [TS]

  independent platform [TS]

  and you know it won't just be like one switch flipping it's you know do this [TS]

  than that than this than that you know i mean the original iPhone it's like I was [TS]

  thinking about it in the context of the watch it was crazy how little it did on [TS]

  its own you had to sync your calendars and contacts through iTunes right just [TS]

  to get so if you wanted to have the same contacts on your phone and computer you [TS]

  had to keep connecting it to iTunes and sinking their I mean it was crazy so [TS]

  part of that is tech I think with the phone and you're right a lot of it comes [TS]

  to the constraints are different with the phone it was more about just that [TS]

  there was just so much software that needed to be written before they could [TS]

  do it and being able to just depend on iTunes in the meantime just reserve [TS]

  heard two very helpful crunch because it was worth launching when they did it [TS]

  would not have been worth waiting another two or three years until they [TS]

  had more of that that whole stack ready to go in with a white guy think it is [TS]

  more engineering right why doesn't have the SIM card I think simple I think [TS]

  battery life and size size is an issue too though [TS]

  yeah there is a Samsung one I think that has a SIM card by the as yet and it's [TS]

  way bigger but the thing is likely I would one thing that you've learned over [TS]

  the years is never bet against militarization never bet against I think [TS]

  the antenna because its analogue like there's a lot of real challenges there [TS]

  but at the same time like anything in tactics don't bet against like don't bet [TS]

  against that kind of stuff and this question with jeans are are my podcast [TS]

  is you know where do you draw the line on what features its ok to ship with and [TS]

  what procedures without and the way I draw the line is not by looking at the [TS]

  technical implementation or the of the future but the impact it has on normal [TS]

  peoples lives and what I mean by that is when it when the iPhone came out people [TS]

  were already plugging in their devices into their computer every night those [TS]

  devices happen [TS]

  iPods Apple was just asking you to keep doing the same thing you were always [TS]

  doing and a different rate exactly in so even though it was if we will look back [TS]

  and think oh my gosh I had to plug in my phone to sync my calendars it sounds [TS]

  ridiculous today it did not sound ridiculous in 2007 and and so that's why [TS]

  I think was okay to not have that feature because you weren't you weren't [TS]

  putting a burden on people who were making people's lives more difficult and [TS]

  I think the same thing applies to the watch [TS]

  yes you would be there is no you don't need to wait for the watch to have its [TS]

  own cellular stack because people already have their phones with them [TS]

  you're not saying oh you have up to till the day you have not been carrying a [TS]

  cellular device in your pocket but now you need to carry with you lose the [TS]

  watch now people are already doing it you're the the watch is only making [TS]

  their lives better and I think I i agree with you i think it will be shorter than [TS]

  10 years in seven years say in 2021 will look back and say man I can't believe I [TS]

  carried a phone in my pocket every single hour of every single day so let's [TS]

  go back to you know like the new deniro like 1993 94 most people very few people [TS]

  had cell phones and cell phones are out there was you know the famous wall [TS]

  street a break so let's say Apple comes out with some kind of digital watch in [TS]

  1993 and watched as something cool I don't know do you know forget the [TS]

  details but it's you know but nobody has a habit of carrying cell phone at a time [TS]

  and then they say oh and make this watch work you have to carry this 45 inch [TS]

  rectangle in your pocket with you everywhere and everybody billion that [TS]

  that seems stupid I don't care that you know there's a five ounce thing that is [TS]

  very expensive itself and you have to carry around with you everywhere you go [TS]

  that's you're asking people to do something that is stupid right never [TS]

  gonna do that [TS]

  like you're saying I completely agree that they they can piggyback off the [TS]

  phone now for things like cellular and wi-fi connectivity because everybody in [TS]

  that you know the target audience of people who already carry an iPhone with [TS]

  them everywhere they go is is sufficiently large right in it I think [TS]

  it's really interesting to just a slight side where gas is one thing I haven't [TS]

  done any of my columns it was not explicitly or or in the podcast is [TS]

  likewise what if we were if we jump for like what what how do you think how do [TS]

  you think our tech wise will look like in 2020 [TS]

  I don't know why I'm you know but I have very intrigued that they think this is [TS]

  the way it's going to go you know that it's mostly you know that I think that [TS]

  they're predicting a lot of it is gonna go to the rest I think it's gotta be a [TS]

  lot about voice input you know we're going to be talking to our rishta lot I [TS]

  don't see other any other way that you're going to see how they're ever [TS]

  going to invent anything that would let you type on their own a piece on [TS]

  something that small so I think within his first off if you were to tell [TS]

  someone in 2007 how little we talked on the phone today the they might not [TS]

  believe you so that's that's so I think the voice thing in general as far as [TS]

  communication always late would do need sorry for text input then because we [TS]

  text a lot now I think what's interesting about the phone is it's [TS]

  actually a few track like everything you do in a day how much of it are you [TS]

  actually in putting anything like how much of it is gathering information or [TS]

  absorbing information as opposed to actually you know putting something in [TS]

  tonight I suspect I try to sell four days really hard like it was shocking [TS]

  how it has a lot of it is just just checking its just checking stuff all the [TS]

  time and end all like that's it's not just that you could do that [TS]

  watches that it's better on a watch [TS]

  and I think those for me the vision is the watches you have seen with you all [TS]

  the time and the things that that's with you all the time is is where the radio [TS]

  should be aware the connection should be and it's where it should be and yes I'm [TS]

  sure we'll still have smartphones I don't think they're going away just like [TS]

  we still have computers but I think it's gonna be more it's more about the screen [TS]

  and more about [TS]

  pluses the future and it's going to be more dedicated to doing specific tasks [TS]

  as opposed to being everything the end of the end all be all right I think that [TS]

  there's a lot of things that you just never gonna be done on the watch but [TS]

  that's fine because they're still stings it never be a stronger word but that [TS]

  you're almost never going to do on your phone right like if you have to write [TS]

  your graduate student have to write a dissertation you're probably not going [TS]

  to do it on your iPhone even on an iPhone plus although it's a lot more [TS]

  plausible now than it was before [TS]

  well you're never gonna do that on your watch you never gonna write articles on [TS]

  your watch you're not going to read articles you know like somebody like me [TS]

  are you writes thousand-word essay on the watch for whatever new product comes [TS]

  out in five years you're not going to read it on your watch although you might [TS]

  have it read to you by Siri you know that you know over Bluetooth [TS]

  can actually read it visually but there's like you said there's an awful [TS]

  lot of things that you do read that are you know [TS]

  eminently readable and writable on the screen that's not just that but this is [TS]

  where continuity i think is particularly interesting because if if the watch is [TS]

  always your first window into stuff your first encounter with something if you if [TS]

  if it was totally seamless for you to immediately transfer that to a more [TS]

  suitable device and did not have to model rallied sinking in all its result [TS]

  be just you flip it over something and now it's on your iPhone plus or you want [TS]

  type something so you put it all right here on your Mac like now I think that [TS]

  that's a critical component like now watch being the center makes a lot more [TS]

  sense if the if transitioning content to more suitable devices is is tolley [TS]

  frictionless anatoly easy I am certainly will not be there this year but what [TS]

  what what state will continually be Indian in 55 years they are they keep [TS]

  using the word personal and they do you stand on stage [TS]

  reiterating the website it says here Apple watches from Apple's website right [TS]

  now overview Applewhite represent a new chapter in the relationship people have [TS]

  with technology it's the most personal product we've ever made because it's the [TS]

  first one designed to be warned I do I think that you know that I don't think [TS]

  they use words like that lately and I think that they mean it that we're going [TS]

  to have the way that we have i think i least I do personally I have more action [TS]

  personal affection to my iPhone than any other product and more than the iPad [TS]

  certainly more than the iPad and and more even than the Mac even though I you [TS]

  know started as you know most of you know ten years ago I felt like I wrote [TS]

  more about Mac than I did Apple right like I never spent a lot of time it [TS]

  during fireball writing about the iPod's I mean I did but it was never much [TS]

  interest to me is the Mac even as the iPod grew to dwarf the Mac in terms of [TS]

  its financial relevance to the company because it just wasn't engaged whereas [TS]

  the phone does right now I think I write and think more about the phone that I do [TS]

  the Mac even though I do all my writing and stuff on the Mac and I still love [TS]

  them back but it is there is something about the fact that it's with me all the [TS]

  time and it's that first you know first responder for my attention [TS]

  hey I'm bored give me something to do is the first thing I do that it is it is [TS]

  more personal and something on your wrist that you just have to twist your [TS]

  risk to look at is another step up in being a personal relationship with [TS]

  technology from the phone and I don't you know i think that they are they're [TS]

  not [TS]

  that's not those words are empty I think they really mean it and I think it's [TS]

  based on their own [TS]

  you know usage internally of that they think it's reason to think why this will [TS]

  be a very successful category for Apple because you know that's every time [TS]

  technology gets more personal like laptops are more personal than desktops [TS]

  and I don't think it's any surprise that Apple's done better in laptops in the [TS]

  arid in desktops tablets are more personal than the maximum done more than [TS]

  they've done better in tablets they ever did in PCs and phones are more personal [TS]

  yet and that's their most successful product ever I i do think it's it's [TS]

  totally reason why I get her mark was coming from I think as far as like a [TS]

  worldwide phenomena like the device everybody what have I think that like [TS]

  the there's still that the Delta between a watch and a phone I'm not sure we'll [TS]

  ever be great enough to make it a universal like University it will [TS]

  surpass the phone but I think for a certain type of customer again primarily [TS]

  an apple customer you know as in Wamena someone who's tends to have a higher [TS]

  incomes tend to have a higher willingness to pay tends to be more [TS]

  focus on the experience of of using something I said that the gentle way [TS]

  possible so please it's a very compelling market in one that I think I [TS]

  think it's how you make the step be more personal Apple's addressable Apple's [TS]

  percentage of addressable market increases now I totally agree and that's [TS]

  a very keen observation on the shift as the industry shifted from desktop PCs to [TS]

  laptop PCs it coincides with a ball rising out of the the decade-long [TS]

  malaise of PC market share over Sri it's a great point actually I just said I [TS]

  don't quite make the connection either i mean the I met her own work that the [TS]

  iMac but even then the IMF was the first to put in the living room the once again [TS]

  to actually carrying something around [TS]

  know that made it made a big difference that's that's really interesting yeah I [TS]

  magnin just like a stop the bleeding thing and it wasn't a get people who'd [TS]

  never considered a Mac using Mac then whereas MacBooks where the thing that [TS]

  really did that I keep coming back on the watch and it is my belief that it's [TS]

  a true it is in its own way and in ways that we don't fully understand it [TS]

  because I think they're being either they're working on it and they don't [TS]

  they can't really talk about it and be I think that they're very deliberately [TS]

  being secretive for the next few months as they don't want to give a competitive [TS]

  leg up [TS]

  leg up [TS]

  to the companies who they think are going to copy it as best they can as [TS]

  quickly as they can so I do think that they are being very cagey about some of [TS]

  the details here but I S one of the things I'm finding hard to square I'm [TS]

  convinced I don't know nobody at Apple said we're being pretty soon we're being [TS]

  secretive as we don't want people to copy this but reading between the lines [TS]

  it is sort of what I was told not in so many words but it does seem like it you [TS]

  know and terms of why weren't why wasn't anybody at the event allowed to try a [TS]

  version using the real software part of it was that it wasn't ready but in 2007 [TS]

  the iPhone wasn't ready when they announced it you know some of the apps [TS]

  were just screenshots literally like I forget which ones but like so like the [TS]

  maybe like the stock widget or something on a calculator like but they let a [TS]

  handful of people like David Pogue and Mossberg I'm sure but a few of those [TS]

  guys on January 2007 6 months before it came out they got to play with you know [TS]

  and I thought they didn't hold anything back you know the end even if some of [TS]

  the apps weren't finished yet and that you just tap the abbot showed you a [TS]

  screenshot of what it would look like that was what it was going to do and [TS]

  what it was going to look like any apps they showed onstage with the apps they [TS]

  ship with they didn't do that with the with the watch and I think its secrecy [TS]

  type thing but I don't know how to square that with what I'm about to say [TS]

  which is I keep coming back and i know i told you this offline I keep going back [TS]

  to the image on Apple's website of the s1 its on wyche you go to technology you [TS]

  have to scroll down to get to it [TS]

  but you go to the Apple watched you go to explore he had technology you scroll [TS]

  down and they show that S one and they say here's what they say about an entire [TS]

  computer architecture on a single chip massive constraints have a way of [TS]

  inspiring interesting creative solutions a prime example is the custom-designed [TS]

  chip at the heart of Apple watch no traditional computer architecture could [TS]

  fit within such a confined space so we found a way to integrate many subsystems [TS]

  into one remarkably compact module module which is then completely [TS]

  encapsulated in resin to protect the electronics from the elements [TS]

  impact and where can trigger an entire computer system on a single chip is an [TS]

  industry person represents a singular feat of engineering in miniaturization [TS]

  they mentioned in the event there promoting it here they're showing at the [TS]

  showing a guy in a man's hand holding this tiny little chip you know I would I [TS]

  know it's an overused frame of reference but a more or less postage stamp sized [TS]

  chip but it doesn't look like a chip there's no expose electronics for [TS]

  transistors or anything like that it is encapsulated in saudi even after being [TS]

  so secretive I feel like that they're bragging about the s1 and and they're [TS]

  showing it and she showing that it's a model [TS]

  suggests so much about how they're going forward I think it suggests that the [TS]

  thing is a full computer it's not meant to be just a peripheral which i think is [TS]

  what Android where is in there is we can come back to that you know my [TS]

  understanding of my android where is that it's now in no way meant in the [TS]

  long run to be a stand-alone computing devices a permanent wrist worn [TS]

  notification terminal for your phone for your Android phone I think that in the [TS]

  way that in 2007 when they went jobs for showed the iPhone and said and it runs [TS]

  OS 10 you know that there is a guest you know that the decades long hey what did [TS]

  happen made a minute you know stripped down version of Mac OS that could run on [TS]

  a phone will now be great what they did it and it was like blown away that they [TS]

  were able to have a computer that could run UNIX so on a phone and with you know [TS]

  western style graphics and stuff like that for fortunately not with passion [TS]

  style I i think that they've taken as it's a similar jump again in the same [TS]

  you know I keep coming back to this that iPhone is to the watch what the Mac was [TS]

  to the iPhone I think they've made a similar jump in like miniaturisation [TS]

  encapsulation with this in that it's you know roughly in the way that it can be a [TS]

  computer it's going to be a computer and that the modularity of it is what I [TS]

  think I really do think that that's the explanation and we can get into this we [TS]

  talk about pricing that's the explanation for why would somebody spend [TS]

  $10,000 on a cold one went two years it's gonna be technically outdated is [TS]

  that I think that you'll be able to take it in for service and have that S one [TS]

  popped out and replaced with an S three yet this this is super interesting with [TS]

  just one moment I think the if I think about the Emerald where point for just a [TS]

  second and then I think the whole retail experience and the in the potential [TS]

  credibility is super interesting but I think it's super significant you [TS]

  highlighted they call the s1 a computer like they say [TS]

  this is the it's this is the fundamental point that the debt just change the [TS]

  right to change my thinking and is key is that Apple makes computers they don't [TS]

  make accessories the iPod was the exception and this is another computer [TS]

  and it has to be looked at in that in that light yet they're not using a [TS]

  different language you know when they call the a 78 a line they call them SOC [TS]

  systems on a chip and it's a CPU and RAM and I don't know what else you know and [TS]

  one and it's it's more on a single chip then in a the PC world than we ever saw [TS]

  have seen but it's not you would never call it a full computer chip like [TS]

  they're calling it a full computer on a chip which to me makes it sound as [TS]

  though if you replaced it with a different one you'd still have the same [TS]

  screen it's almost like turning to watch into like like a desktop PC like where [TS]

  you could replace your PC and keep your monitor like you can replace the [TS]

  computer in the watch and keep the cold case and the Sapphire display and the [TS]

  crown and all of your bands that you bought and you just get a new computer [TS]

  inside I just what I do I acknowledge that I think Android we're under the [TS]

  covers could be stand-alone from a technical perspective I'd like to see [TS]

  you talk about email cuz people have actually been looking into this arm but [TS]

  I think the design the design is always meant to be with a smartphone so what [TS]

  sparked that because we watch but no this is this is this is so interesting [TS]

  is this is this is the thing that people think should be possible rate there's [TS]

  always something right and everyone thought that modularity was dead right [TS]

  with it [TS]

  MacBooks now you can't change anything on your own the phone for sure a member [TS]

  of the phone came out in there was there was no external battery people were [TS]

  going nuts about it like oh my god there's no external battery and the [TS]

  thinking then was you can never make something small enough if you have the [TS]

  constraint of making stuff margarine being held be easily removed by [TS]

  what what it you know I thought I thought it would last time we talked I [TS]

  thought I want to be entry for wearable if Apple came up with it oh it has no [TS]

  screen right now be like oh my god just like the phone has no keys maybe the oh [TS]

  my god moment here is it is modular it's a computer it can be changed out we've [TS]

  totally like we've web so far ahead here that a no you can't do I'm sure no [TS]

  individual could do it but if you bring it into your Apple watch they could all [TS]

  be happy to do it for 500 bucks or whatever [TS]

  yeah maybe it won't even maybe it won't be offered on the Sport Edition you know [TS]

  maybe it's only something for the the stainless steel and gold one because [TS]

  what if it costs $500 to upgrade or well that's probably too much because of the [TS]

  starting price of the watches 349 you sure you know what lets the source code [TS]

  250 just to pick a number of that that's not painless it's not pocket change but [TS]

  it's reasonable if you have a $350 Apple watch you're not going to pay two [TS]

  hundred and fifty to get the s1 replaced with an ass 2-3 when you could just [TS]

  spend 350 again and get a brand new one which might actually be a little slimmer [TS]

  and smaller and haven't updated industrial design but if you spent ten [TS]

  grand on an Apple AAPL watch edition and its solid gold and it still looks great [TS]

  physically on the outside because its own scratched because of this display a [TS]

  sapphire and the gold is special hardened gold you've already spent ten [TS]

  grand I would you spend 250 to get to make it faster and have the battery last [TS]

  longer and probably you know and the gambit guessing as part of the service [TS]

  they'll just put a new battery module in you know because yours is already been [TS]

  through seven hundred and you know recharge cycles and that again in this [TS]

  weird way that they are even though it's truly a computer there there are really [TS]

  only comparing it to the existing high-end watch world there is no they [TS]

  never used the word SmartWatch never showed anybody else is there just acting [TS]

  though Android where and the stuff Samsung's doing date they're just acting [TS]

  as though this stuff doesn't even exist but in the real you know high-end luxury [TS]

  watch world when you buy a $10,000 watcher $5,000 watch duty you do get it [TS]

  serviced every few years as a mechanical device in needed needs you know expert [TS]

  attention every couple years just to keep it in perfect working order [TS]

  it's expected you know it's not free [TS]

  you don't you know you don't get free service on your your Rolex or amigo [TS]

  whatever brand watches have but you know if you've already bought bought it for [TS]

  10 grand and you wanted to last a long time [TS]

  a $200 services you know something you don't even bat an eyelash in with it so [TS]

  interesting about this idea it's only speaking of accidents or exxon tech [TS]

  podcast a disgusted at the beginning of this of this then I think all of them [TS]

  respect greatly work were dismissive eg I think John Siracusa put it as being a [TS]

  nerd fantasy which which in in some it is his right now it is in a way it's [TS]

  likely that I think the comparison that he would make a great couple make it [TS]

  contains the parts and stuff like that but i i think the reason why I i i I [TS]

  find this so compelling in to be very clear like all the available information [TS]

  that we have suggests that this isn't possible right that if you are actually [TS]

  making something so small and you want to maximize battery life like the last [TS]

  thing you want to do is make any considerations towards towards [TS]

  modularity that said if you could do this so much about this product comes [TS]

  into clearer focus rate the the the Gold Edition the idea that they're being like [TS]

  imagine imagine imagine a diligent let's play with this as soon as possible [TS]

  imagine in 10 years right oh you have a first edition right and it is not a [TS]

  first edition like I have the first iPod where it's nice that is my desk there's [TS]

  no way in the right actually use it be a first edition in your still wearing it [TS]

  you got one of those back in the day I got so I have my I want to watch it it's [TS]

  a wedding present from my in laws that govern traditional sort of wedding [TS]

  present and it's it's a month on it so they make pens right but they got used [TS]

  to make watches like in eighteen hundreds a nanny stabbed in the back [TS]

  into watches I like the first one they made when they came back and like I feel [TS]

  very proud of that fact that I have like their first one when they came back on [TS]

  the market [TS]

  imagine imagine if if that was a selling point for for this watch are there was [TS]

  different editions and different designers and the the value of of of the [TS]

  fashion of value of the design if you know it's time worse used not make your [TS]

  point there but you know like it's it's something that is not a throwaway object [TS]

  that is completely tilts the table when it comes to the importance of fashion [TS]

  importance of design the importance of all this one tangible stuff that Apple [TS]

  specializes in and it's all it's like flipping the old PC market on its head [TS]

  hurt before is because they couldn't keep up on all the component parts but [TS]

  now if they were really so far ahead it actually accentuates their biggest rings [TS]

  yeah I totally agree and before I will say I know corrections from what I've [TS]

  speculate on Android where they ended where devices they do have gigabytes of [TS]

  local storage they do have a full app SDK for running standalone apps but [TS]

  there aren't many apps yet but I guess they're they're coming soon and I think [TS]

  that therefore continue at least if not today is already as planned [TS]

  you know without any kind of phone now we're gonna start doing more stuff like [TS]

  Apple lake [TS]

  things like playback of podcasts over Bluetooth or something like that it [TS]

  seems like it's already planned for that but it it to me though I i'm just [TS]

  guessing though if you run any kind of like a benchmark our spec on an android [TS]

  where device today vs this the first Apple watch that we see next year it I [TS]

  think we're going to be blown away by the difference in computing performance [TS]

  that they've put into the lot now in this I think this is really this is this [TS]

  is key like member Steve Jobs said the iPhone is five years ahead of the [TS]

  competition and it or not it actually was five years ago competition it was [TS]

  around 2012 that that Android you're really kind of an obviously you and I [TS]

  certainly feel that from an experience standpoint the iPhone is still ahead [TS]

  from a nap standpoint as far as quality of apps but from a [TS]

  are they in the same albright exactly exactly and it took about five years and [TS]

  I think I think there is no I think the the s1 a program right now it's arguable [TS]

  that Apple's greatest strength right now is is chip design which is yes pretty [TS]

  amazing and and the S one is is right in the wheelhouse and this is the point [TS]

  that I had while the other things really interesting goes back to bed actually a [TS]

  lot of people are saying about the iPhone is suitable for even been get out [TS]

  there like white hit em IQ just a little bit thicker and give us more battery [TS]

  life in Indore back to the IMAX why the IMAX [TS]

  himself in like it sitting on your desk and John Siracusa who we love ever [TS]

  winners all of our but his problem maybe his all-time favorite article that he's [TS]

  written some like don't stop thinking about tomorrow or something along those [TS]

  lines basically he says that when we look back it seems like there is these [TS]

  these breaks right where we we made these big leaps like we went to the [TS]

  iPhone allosaurus stuff is like but those leads don't happen by chance like [TS]

  they happen because there's just constant constant pushing custom [TS]

  generation constantly figuring things out and where things really complain [TS]

  about the watch is [TS]

  the reason if Apple has apples clearly done something very impressive Technol [TS]

  perspective if they've even gone done even more than seems possible and done [TS]

  this or a modular approach like the reason they can pull this off is because [TS]

  they've been making for himself in it because they've been mean by that is [TS]

  they've been pushing the envelope on things like thinness in on things like [TS]

  efficiency and other things like battery wife and and all that pays off [TS]

  win they're they're capable of making something like the watch that is already [TS]

  waste more than anything else on the market we don't know the battery life [TS]

  but i i'd I have to assume that Apple will do they want to make sure it lasts [TS]

  a full of hate before before they they say anything but that's that's the net [TS]

  result of all the stuff that doesn't happen by accident and I think that it's [TS]

  it's tough for a lot of people in the tech world that tech focus mentality to [TS]

  wrap their heads around this because they've always thought that they still [TS]

  think of Apple is a company that doesn't value performance as a top priority [TS]

  the day you know there are design company and then you don't get a lot of [TS]

  bang for your buck performance wise with a Mac which hasn't really been true for [TS]

  years but put that aside the people just under estimate that I just don't think [TS]

  they they get their heads around this about like you said late just how much [TS]

  alcohol as a semi-conductor companies leading the industry in terms of them [TS]

  where they're interested making things smaller and more efficient at Oso [TS]

  telling that when a non tech ran their initial benchmarks of the new iPhones [TS]

  that in most of the benchmarks the iPhone 5s is still top five sometimes [TS]

  third just only behind the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 plus a year later you know in a [TS]

  very competitive industry I mean arguably the most competitive industry [TS]

  in all of tack with everybody you know climbing at each other [TS]

  and consider it the other guys are the ones who who [TS]

  more directly addressed the suspect driven market and that they still don't [TS]

  have phones they compete with the iPhone 5s or that surpasses at least I think [TS]

  that's so super telling about how just how potentially remarkable the s1 could [TS]

  be and who knows maybe we're making fools of ourselves and that the specs of [TS]

  the essence of that will watch technically aren't gonna be that [TS]

  remarkable compared to app Android where and other things you know who knows [TS]

  maybe you know completely wasting our time and and fantasizing about this but [TS]

  I can't help but think that they would not draw attention to it if it weren't [TS]

  something they were super proud of what not just that but this is dis is like [TS]

  this is this should be the gating factor in whether should wait or not because to [TS]

  watch something that is that is underpowered that does not enable a [TS]

  platform would would be a mistake because you you want you if you start [TS]

  out with in this is this is what I've got this is so clearly got run in where [TS]

  I almost felt an urgency to correct myself is if you start out with just the [TS]

  mental model that this is an accessory like the iPod was an accessory you [TS]

  you're making fundamental important fundamental constraints on the product [TS]

  that that will determine the products trajectory in the in the long run right [TS]

  it's like Windows 8 Windows 8 scornfully break away from being a desktop keyboard [TS]

  mouse and driven sort of thing and that just that there's handicapped everything [TS]

  else it's an extreme example but if you can't just flip a switch and say oh [TS]

  suffer developer you designed in out for the watch [TS]

  assuming the phone would be there but now it's not there there's a death is [TS]

  very hard to overcome this challenge for Android where I can read where is very [TS]

  explicit right now you have to have a smartphone app and and that's only [TS]

  possible vs one is actually a real computer like that's only possible [TS]

  inside I [TS]

  presume it is I think the modularity if you can replace it is definitely open [TS]

  question but many would be unbelievably compelling if it was reported yet to [TS]

  guess it's two different issues as the first is it just how much is this really [TS]

  technically impressive computer I think that's a sure thing I i wud I'm gonna [TS]

  eat my hat if it's not a blow away [TS]

  technical device at a computer engineering level is that the the idea [TS]

  that a year later two years later you can take it into Apple store and get it [TS]

  replaced with an upgraded version it that might be just pure fantasy on my [TS]

  part even if the the goldmans do cost 567 $10,000 even if they do it really [TS]

  might be the case that you you know you've [TS]

  ok thanks for $5,000 between russia now you gonna need to spend another 5,000 to [TS]

  get a better one it might be I would you know I don't think that's out of hand [TS]

  but I do think though it's way more compelling if if it's not let me to the [TS]

  third sponsor a reminder here is the topic that I want to come back to after [TS]

  this is if it is modular in terms of being replaceable would Apple tell us [TS]

  that in January or would they wait a year before they say so think about that [TS]

  think about that will come back to it but right now I think our third and [TS]

  final sponsor the show another new sponsor really really happy to have [TS]

  these guys here it is [TS]

  need and he ed need is a refined retailer in lifestyle magazine from men [TS]

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  need curates and sells a limited quantity of exclusive products from the [TS]

  world's top men's brand is our collections they're presented in the [TS]

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  to date on men's fashion these guys are help you but it goes beyond just [TS]

  clothing they also sell coffee they sell literature furniture and so forth just [TS]

  like anything you might be interested in anything where design matters need has [TS]

  issues surrounding those things sooner going to localize to certain cities [TS]

  around the world the first of which is going to be London so that would be of [TS]

  keen interest to all of you guys who are you know the listeners over in the UK [TS]

  they just launched need volume 8 assembly that's the theme and it [TS]

  features some of the best products for evenings with friends hosting parties [TS]

  that sort of thing assembly in terms of you know assembling you and your friends [TS]

  and family together they've got favorites like the Stewart throw should [TS]

  sunglasses in the classic oxford watch which is a really cool classic watch [TS]

  here's where you go to find out more on their website is need addition dot com [TS]

  that addition like the addition eEdition of a magazine need eEdition dot com and [TS]

  they have a special offer for talk show listeners anyone in places an order with [TS]

  need and we were sent from the show go there [TS]

  order and then send an email to hello need addition dot com hello at need [TS]

  addition dot com with the subject line is the code no spoilers and then after [TS]

  you've heard you place the order then you just shoot them an email and send [TS]

  him a code word on the subject no spoilers write it down but investor [TS]

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  spoilers as the subject sort of the low low tech hand delivered product code [TS]

  just for listeners at the show so my thanks to them really great stuff really [TS]

  impressive design and curation really these guys find stuff that I've never [TS]

  heard of it it's it's really really cool stuff [TS]

  absolutely positively worth your attention and trying to sell out so my [TS]

  thanks to need alright I told you to remember what I want it I want to ask [TS]

  you if if when they introduced if it is mad if its module they say so radical [TS]

  that tells absolutely absolutely i mean like I said if it's Marjorie changes the [TS]

  entire perception and conceptualisation of what this of what this is right he [TS]

  goes it changes from being another a very pretty in in cool yet disposable [TS]

  item to being like something meaningful right the way the whale watches [TS]

  meaningful [TS]

  like a high-end watches meeting for and no I I think it would be I think it's [TS]

  difficult to overstate what a difference that would make in the way people think [TS]

  about the entire the entire category in the Indian terror watch and that by the [TS]

  way that would mean I would just pull the rug out from all the entrance where [TS]

  devices in just your pretty unbelievable way I mean it would very clearly out [TS]

  would be saying himself up as we are the Swiss by with a relatively or worse [TS]

  watch all the way up to [TS]

  Cartier yeah and you guys are you can have your the castles of the market or [TS]

  or stuff like that and no I of course there will be a central a key point in [TS]

  my opinion [TS]

  yeah I think so to think that they wouldn't is if they're unsure if it's [TS]

  like that's their hope and that's our plan but they don't want to promise it [TS]

  in advance because what if something comes up and went to the way that they [TS]

  want to make the S to its not socket compatible with you know with us I think [TS]

  of the St already on the drawing board it at least a naturist elbowed the it's [TS]

  the first edition its gonna have the biggest challenges that's going to have [TS]

  all these sort of things and it like for example if to to make something modular [TS]

  even if it has to be done by technician rate to make anything modular you're [TS]

  making some sort of trade off in space in particular spaces that is the biggest [TS]

  by far and that is such a massive constraint right now that if they're [TS]

  willing to make that trade off inversion one they're they're only gonna make that [TS]

  trade off if if they're there I can do that for optionality they're going to do [TS]

  it because the ways that it would work if you just think it sounds crazy cuz [TS]

  Apple's the company that famously got scores like you said for not having a [TS]

  replaceable battery user replaceable battery but you can replace your battery [TS]

  I'll just point out you've always been able to replace the battery in your [TS]

  phone by taking it an apple and having you know it's just that you can pop off [TS]

  the back yourself and put a replacement in its not user swappable throughout the [TS]

  day but it is you know certainly modular in terms of if your battery is not a bad [TS]

  battery or an old battery you can go and get a new one but the way that things [TS]

  evolve the way computers design evolve certainly personal computers as they get [TS]

  smaller and more efficient so as the last one gets smaller and more or less [TS]

  series get smaller and more efficient over the years there's always gonna be [TS]

  room in your regional 2015 Apple watch for the new smaller s writing that class [TS]

  teacher like the next version of the physical hardware could be smaller and [TS]

  that's not a problem for the original the risk if you presume that right this [TS]

  will be the biggest the endeavor is racism which is an exceptionally [TS]

  reasonable position today certainly the thickest it's ever going to write i mean [TS]

  like they had certainly one of the knocks against it from a watch [TS]

  person's perspective specifically called out by by Ben Clymer of the dinky that [TS]

  it does said little higher arrest in there for you know that the issue with a [TS]

  watch that physically that is it's you know your your shirt sleeves might get [TS]

  caught on it and it would leave room if I'm correct to that if there is a [TS]

  swappable strategy you know an upgradeable strategy that they're going [TS]

  to do the battery along with this one because batteries you know deteriorate [TS]

  over time and there it expressly on one of the few things they're telling us [TS]

  already has that you will need to charge it every day so it's going to go through [TS]

  a lot of you know if you use in like your Apple whatcha gonna go through [TS]

  close to 365 upgrade you know battery cycles year that they'll do that too but [TS]

  the net if the s1 shrinks a little every year than they can make the battery a [TS]

  little bigger not just that but battery technology unfortunately not fasten [TS]

  night but it does improve you know rate regularly just as a side note I think [TS]

  one thing that changed my mind about the I watch that needs to be more not less [TS]

  is the reason we wake an iPhone was was terrible battery life compared to what [TS]

  was on the market by we put up with Charlie he was people can believe are [TS]

  you really charge your phone every night but the Apple did it because it was so [TS]

  much better and I think that's another reason to presume that Apple is wants [TS]

  the watch to do so much more that it's so compelling that you will put up with [TS]

  charging the way to overcome charging every night is tonight to make a watch [TS]

  that last for two weeks because that's impossible [TS]

  the way to overcome it is to make it worth the trouble of bringing an extra [TS]

  adapter right it saw the retail experience i mean especially if the [TS]

  authors changing batteries in or changing processors well I think it [TS]

  starts as saying another step back and hit on another topic from ATP recently [TS]

  which was wait a minute isn't this [TS]

  on Apple like like that plan and Marquez lines and i've seen this all across the [TS]

  web that what we think of as the Apple way to do it is to make one apple watch [TS]

  the first year and it would be compelling to everybody men and women it [TS]

  would be lets you know this is split the middle of 42 in 30 8mm let's call it [TS]

  forty millimeter appealing to men and women possibly even one color and one [TS]

  type of band and that's it and then maybe over years it would maybe the [TS]

  product line would grow and that is it would be you know an aluminum and glass [TS]

  type thing that sells for 350 bucks a price that exact all existing Apple [TS]

  customers can afford that this idea of selling what I think you're gonna be [TS]

  $1,500 $2,000 to inland steel ones and 5,000 10,000 dollars gold ones all of it [TS]

  coming out once doesn't that mean that Apple as we know it is over and it's [TS]

  it's you know whether it's for better for worse it's different or doesn't even [TS]

  make sense and you know what this funny thing to do is listen to the show are [TS]

  gonna disagree with us but at least on Twitter when I wrote my piece you know [TS]

  we can have two go two weeks ago man I mean a lot of people like wow that was [TS]

  really insightful you really opened my eyes I think you're onto something here [TS]

  and then there was an awful lot of vitriol I got more negative feedback on [TS]

  that piece than anything that I've written a long time and these are for [TS]

  this is from people who I think usually agree with her like what I have to say [TS]

  about Apple but there were people who are saying things like if the gold one [TS]

  even cost twice the the you know $350 that that the you know they're gonna [TS]

  lose their ship it and I don't think people get I don't think what I don't [TS]

  think people get is just how different this is from anything Apple's done [TS]

  before it's not right at your you're doing yourself a disservice if you're [TS]

  thinking about it in the context of how Apple has done things I completely agree [TS]

  like what's interesting about [TS]

  it's been a mention that my criticism critical of the watch piece was both [TS]

  very popular is widely shared my comrades in hundreds of tweets my my [TS]

  recent piece [TS]

  example like you went to several pieces in the past [TS]

  usually they're both so they get a lot of views and they're also shared a lot [TS]

  on Twitter by one this week has got a lot of Jews but it's hardly gotten [TS]

  shared on Twitter at all and what's interesting is i think it's it's it's [TS]

  actually other peace with the pricing thing and what I mean by that is I think [TS]

  that's why it's been so hard to articulate apples are tender chicken [TS]

  waiting is that if if we are right that is like Apple is going for this future [TS]

  that is just wildly more ambitious than anyway I think was originally thinking [TS]

  about it might be from a place perspective it might be from a style [TS]

  perspective from a performance perspective maybe from a West respective [TS]

  it's it's almost like people like just doesn't fit with anyone model of the way [TS]

  things ought to be and I think a lot of people and some people's very strongly [TS]

  disagree I've definitely heard from them but a lot to adjust their not they don't [TS]

  know what to think it's like what it is I don't know what to think like what's [TS]

  what's going on here I think the price thing is is very much of a piece with [TS]

  that i mean the idea that Apple would sell eighth from a tech person [TS]

  perspective and identical device for ten times or more the price of another [TS]

  identical devices does not compute right in a way that like back to the car [TS]

  analogy that you know they made the point of market hey you've got a BMW m5 [TS]

  you know that costs triple what even a regular you know nice car costs and you [TS]

  still bound by the same speed limits and even if you want to disobey the speed [TS]

  limit you can't go that much faster [TS]

  you know then than the speed limit intense you know maintain any kind of [TS]

  reasonable safety Marco I believe does not do any kind of recreational auto [TS]

  racing you know what some people do some people do you know go on test tracks and [TS]

  stuff like that you know it it but it still is a better car technically then [TS]

  you know $30,000 Acura something great it's you know technically engineer lies [TS]

  it's a better car whereas the computer inside Apple watch edition is I believe [TS]

  going to be the exact same computer in Apple watch it goes back full circle [TS]

  because of what Apple is selling now and they've always sold this but it's always [TS]

  been it's always been the frosting on the cake [TS]

  rate but now it is the cake what they're selling is they're selling the [TS]

  intangibles they're selling there's like gold the idea of gold being more [TS]

  valuable is is a pure human trance trucked right there's nothing like right [TS]

  gold doesn't really have any innate applications that meet that the reason [TS]

  goal is more valuable because we as a human race have decided that goes more [TS]

  valuable rights completed value is almost completely intangible great when [TS]

  you're in a museum in UC like an old very old like a sword or a weapon that's [TS]

  made her crafted partly out of gold that's it's certainly not because gold [TS]

  made her stronger so yeah right it's almost a showpiece it's effectively [TS]

  useless in the real combat but it's you know it it signify something else and [TS]

  this is why I feel like this at this in particular in a unanimous in its a [TS]

  gloomy culture shock this is just completely an estimate to the [TS]

  traditional tax mindset and in the end and the mindset that i think is very you [TS]

  know he's very focused on efficiency that's very folk inefficiency in all [TS]

  means I just efficiency in computing but efficiency in using money efficiency and [TS]

  how you live your life like I want to have a house where I can I can get this [TS]

  experience for a tenth of the price [TS]

  should otherwise or something along those lines like Apple like a gold [TS]

  edition watches the exact opposite direction it's more expensive for the [TS]

  sake of being expensive and I don't mean that in our people made in Elgin I am [TS]

  rich out I'm no it's not it's not that too because you the the benefit accruing [TS]

  to the person using that is at a very superficial level I suppose I can see [TS]

  the analogy but it's again I think the the the class you're has to be the [TS]

  luxury luxury goods market where the reality is the rally is most luxury [TS]

  items are less functional then then the cheap roger is right and famously in the [TS]

  watch world the famously that a quartz watch a $20 towards time max keeps [TS]

  better time than a $20,000 my watches his terrible like it's always off but [TS]

  just because just because it's not tangible doesn't mean it's not real and [TS]

  in NY me in its not real and it's not real in a marketing artificial scents [TS]

  like its people actually care about this and they've cared about it for it for [TS]

  thousands millions of years like this isn't a fluke that people value their [TS]

  people value by that I would be very expressive right now my wife just looked [TS]

  in the window on the porch tonight as well as my train of thought it's very [TS]

  people care about this stuff in a very real way that Karen millions of years [TS]

  it's not a fluke and what Apple's tapping into is is a real thing I think [TS]

  I'm trying to think about the other i's and T's on across your one of the things [TS]

  i wanna talk about it just sort of attention but wifi days the Apple watch [TS]

  does have some sort of wi-fi [TS]

  but they call it Apple calls it that it has WiFi Bluetooth [TS]

  quoting here but it's hard to stay in touch with your iPhone so I think what [TS]

  they're saying and I asked and could not get a true an actual straight answer but [TS]

  the insinuation was that it's like the backchannel wifi whatever you wanna call [TS]

  it adhoc wifi where it uses wifi like the way that you can do things now [TS]

  pairing keyboard with you know your Apple TV and stuff that you can do these [TS]

  things without getting it on the network first are on the way [TS]

  airdrop works right that you can air drop things to people over wifi without [TS]

  being on the same wi-fi network negotiation happens over Bluetooth but [TS]

  then his wife I'm yeah I think that's the wifi that it has like it's not that [TS]

  you could go out without your phone go to Starbucks and get on wifi and have my [TS]

  messages show up and get your email to show up I don't think but they didn't [TS]

  dare they have been expressly ruled that out so I have to be have to file it and [TS]

  the big pile of I don't knows but the strong hint that I got was that it [TS]

  doesn't have like true independent wifi like go get our wi-fi network with [TS]

  outside tethering range to your iPhone it's a way to use wifi to extend the [TS]

  tethering range to your iPhone yet I believe which will decide to make sense [TS]

  I mean if if that that sounds really like go user interface disaster to have [TS]

  to join random wi-fi networks and if he's almost like simpler to just say it [TS]

  works with your iPhone and then once once you can do it all do it all right [TS]

  it's like the resolution independence rate I do think though that that's how [TS]

  the product will evolve though is that before it gets cellular is it would I i [TS]

  mean absolutely make sense to have wifi first it consumes less battered just [TS]

  like the way the iPod touch [TS]

  as a WiFi only the device has always been thinner than the iPhone it still is [TS]

  even today the two year old iPod Touch design is thinner than even the iPhone [TS]

  sex because it's you know there's less stuff you have to put in there to just [TS]

  do wifi so I think it would make sense for a future version about will watch to [TS]

  have I don't know what to call it real WiFi support where you can use it as an [TS]

  independent device anywhere you have wifi before it even gets so you learn it [TS]

  working but I don't think it's gonna be there this year it's interesting but it [TS]

  would be a nice surprise would be a nice surprise of a maybe maybe they're [TS]

  waiting to see what with good battery life do like if if the battery life ends [TS]

  up being sufficient to enable it they will and if it if like that said that's [TS]

  a big potential areas like what they just cant get the battery to be good [TS]

  enough [TS]

  well we'll cut this and then that gives an extra hour two hours are repeated [TS]

  strain of criticism of my assumption I am i bank on it that 349 means Apple [TS]

  sport and its aluminum and what they call it what it called eye on next class [TS]

  it's a glass display and an aluminum case or in other words it's like iPod [TS]

  iPhone build quality and materials that's 349 stainless steel is going to [TS]

  be more expensive because the stainless steel just plain Apple watch is in [TS]

  addition to being stainless steel ads safire display and stainless steel is [TS]

  not that expensive material but it's you know if you look at what stainless steel [TS]

  high-end watches cost the cost you know four digits not three digits usually or [TS]

  if they do cost three digits their lesser brands and their close to $1,000 [TS]

  and the gold one time is going to be a lot of money but a lot of people said [TS]

  well no no no I you know Apple watch is the one that just is called out to watch [TS]

  that's the one that's gotta be 349 because it's just called Apple [TS]

  Whitechapel sport must be a little bit more expensive or something like it's [TS]

  optimized for working out or something like that and it's made of aluminum to [TS]

  be lighter weight [TS]

  and that only the goldmans any more expensive and that if you look at the [TS]

  way they put him on the page they put Apple watch first then Apple sport are [TS]

  Applewhite sport and then Apple watch addition what sense would it make to [TS]

  arrange in like that I i think these people are just the people who think [TS]

  that just you're just looking at this all wrong I don't think it's a [TS]

  coincidence that Apple watch the stainless steel one which i think is [TS]

  probably gonna cost like maybe Nick 999 I don't think it's a coincidence that at [TS]

  first I think Apple might honestly think it might be the main the best selling at [TS]

  the low end one may not be the best selling in the same way that the iPhone [TS]

  5 see did not outsell the 5s last year [TS]

  no that's that's a that's a great analogy to the to the S&C and I think [TS]

  the which one sells more will come back to the modularity question I know that [TS]

  would certainly change the product that I would buy you know we just because I [TS]

  as much as I like to talk about the intense last acts in things about but a [TS]

  ball that I'm not going to spend a few thousand dollars are a device that's [TS]

  going to be obsolete in two years [TS]

  yeah you know but I definitely think though that people are just thirty just [TS]

  cannot wrap their heads around the fact that the default model is not going to [TS]

  be the low end and then again I think the phone is the way to look at that the [TS]

  default iPhone the one that they expect most people to buy is the iPhone said no [TS]

  sir in this in this gets back to why even [TS]

  obviously I am I'm hoping this alot but the you can't understand in my opinion [TS]

  like you cannot understand product development at alcohol without thinking [TS]

  very strongly about the Asian market in general in the Chinese market so there's [TS]

  that termites as throwing out there [TS]

  emblem good people just walk there I guess not really a real concert guy in [TS]

  it I guess what they're saying basically that he is when you in general the [TS]

  demand curve works that the cheaper something is [TS]

  is the more it sells and I think in general that that's true for everything [TS]

  ready if if an iPhone were cheaper it would sell more but they do have a good [TS]

  is that it's a product for which the more expensive it is the more desirable [TS]

  it becomes and this idea certainly this day this is the case for for some work [TS]

  sorry goods I'm I mean I think where the confusion is it doesn't sell more Rite [TS]

  Aid [TS]

  a Hermes bag sells these are fewer bags and leave it on but they are way more [TS]

  desirable in their way more a signifier and they win and they wouldn't be as [TS]

  desirable if they were priced exactly exactly exactly they would not become [TS]

  more more MORE [TS]

  and others there are there are brands I think coaches like this where they've [TS]

  they've vastly increase their sales they made a lot of the co-chairs the Holy [TS]

  coach retail or what's the word I'll let coach outlet and it's a very different [TS]

  it's a different design is different than actual culture stores but they [TS]

  actually make most of their money there they sell way more there's lines out [TS]

  there you know building all the time but it has absolutely it was in my [TS]

  estimation my observation it again I was driving my wife distract me for this is [TS]

  where I order a lot it's changed what Coach means as a brand it's become a lot [TS]

  less meaning for a lot less of a signifier of of of anything you know of [TS]

  class class Brandon said absolutely not not not classroom people but just where [TS]

  they are competitively with you know that there it's it's above you know it [TS]

  more in line with like michael kors right exactly when when I think ten [TS]

  fifteen years ago it was it was more on you know the lower still the lower end [TS]

  of luxury but now it's not it's it's borderline luxury at all and and death [TS]

  find that it's worked out well for them as I understand it I think there I think [TS]

  they're doing pretty well although I think it [TS]

  I think it along I think they may be tapering off a bit now but but in in in [TS]

  China and its like this and this is like this it's got a lot better but [TS]

  especially even a year ago the analysis of the iPhone in China was just so [TS]

  wildly off-base right like people when they have I C came out there is always [TS]

  articles saying 005 sees equivalent to the average monthly wage of in China [TS]

  that's that's a completely meaningless statistically means absolutely nothing [TS]

  because there's so much inequality right there in there so many rape all that by [TS]

  definition is a lot of people there are what make way more than the average [TS]

  average monthly salary and the iPhone is selling to those people and not just [TS]

  that but in in in that culture and it's the same thing here intel launches [TS]

  obviously yours Chinese but I think a lot of Chinese influence cultures the [TS]

  idea of displaying wealth is much more socially acceptable than it is in the [TS]

  West right to due to market [TS]

  ATP website but Marco technology would judge someone that walked in with the [TS]

  gold phone-in James on my other players and he said the same thing that's the [TS]

  exact [TS]

  Marcos example was do you think that next year WDC that we go out for beers [TS]

  at the house shelter something and as anybody in in R&D crowd going to be [TS]

  wearing a gold watch and he said I'd be embarrassed right exactly and which is a [TS]

  reasonable it's totally reasonable thing to say and I know exactly what to talk [TS]

  about but i think i think is wrong I think there will be people and but I [TS]

  also think though that it would be something that it might carry a twinge [TS]

  of embarrassment in some contexts where is your say like in asia would not you [TS]

  know that there is it's there's no better than you did that it's different [TS]

  I wouldn't be surprised if we see you again [TS]

  probably wouldn't break this down that maybe they would but like an incredible [TS]

  disparity in the breakdown [TS]

  of you know almost like an inversion you know just totally different chart of how [TS]

  many of which model or selling Apple watch being off the charts different in [TS]

  asia than in the West yeah for sure why I'm editors the color of iPhones rate it [TS]

  is almost impossible to see an iPhone 5 seed or 5s here in Taiwan it's not guilt [TS]

  wake if you see ten iPhone 5 S's nine of them are gold and that and that's truly [TS]

  cosmetic as its not gold gold gold color range but that is not perfect in the [TS]

  fire but the adl like gold especially is is very meaningful it's a very strong [TS]

  like there's all this all this stuff about its weird like those of the [TS]

  relationships of touch with the chinese with money is very very different in the [TS]

  West Bank of the West is missing America there's this kind of your pure genius [TS]

  like you know you are to be humble and and and and Haider wealth in and things [TS]

  like that [TS]

  not at all the case you like money in the idea of monies everywhere [TS]

  gifts or money giving presents different you give money would you go to a wedding [TS]

  for example you bring an envelope you give it to them they pull out the day of [TS]

  someone's at the door they pull out the money they counted in a write it down so [TS]

  there's a list of how much everyone made in its like this do it right there it's [TS]

  it's it's not it's not weird right [TS]

  you have Chinese New Year and you eat these dumplings that are meant to look [TS]

  like money like old kind of money so the ideas you can make more money in the [TS]

  next year [TS]

  just it sounds I know it's installing bizarre to people in the West Zuma had [TS]

  this like fixation with money but it's not it's not weird here it's just like [TS]

  that's just the way it is and and the iPhone absolutely fits into this where [TS]

  people absolutely without a question cannot be disputed will buy an iPhone [TS]

  simply because it's the most expensive and it shows that you can afford an [TS]

  iPhone and without a doubt the gold watch opinion even if it is disposable [TS]

  even if it can't be replaced [TS]

  people will buy a [TS]

  dollar gold watch because it's a five it's a it's a gold watch and it's even [TS]

  more so it's on your wrist all the time people will see it all the time and and [TS]

  that's ok I can that's it's not frowned upon at by any means it's it's it's [TS]

  something everyone aspires to write these two types of in broad strokes two [TS]

  types of people who buy an expensive watch there's the crowd there is a type [TS]

  of person who buys one and selects one probably a Rolex because Rolexes the by [TS]

  far the preeminent brand but and select not just any Rolex but one that is God [TS]

  you know maybe a diamonds around the bezel or something like that because [TS]

  they want people to see that they're wearing a diamond bezel Rolex and then [TS]

  there's the type who might have been even more like $85,000 on a watch I just [TS]

  think it was 85 but that it's like a watch guys watch and nobody no typical [TS]

  person would even notice that it's anything except other watch people and [TS]

  it's you know maybe in a course of a week only one person who would see you [TS]

  wearing a watch would know what it is but that too that that person knows [TS]

  exactly what it is and it's like being in a secret society and i think that in [TS]

  so I think the gold Apple watch is that is that's did not the second the cold [TS]

  out to watch is that it is I've I bought the golden but it would be the second it [TS]

  were modular that's what's so interesting about it [TS]

  well I think the stainless steel is sort of that though the stainless steel is [TS]

  cos its stainless steel and a couple pointed this out I it's hard to see [TS]

  online it's the sort of thing that does not photograph well jewelry jewellery in [TS]

  person never photographs well but the stainless steel is polished and it is [TS]

  shiny I can vouch for that having seen it and tried one on in the aluminum [TS]

  cable sports watch is more like I don't know if it is brushed aluminum or [TS]

  whatever the sand blasted thing whatever they do [TS]

  you know like to the brand new iPhone sex you know it's it's not a polished [TS]

  shiny material it's you know it's bad but at a glance it would be very [TS]

  difficult to see whether somebody's wearing a stainless steel one or the [TS]

  aluminum one and the bands are answered very common question the bands are [TS]

  interchangeable between all of them now 38 and 42 millimeters take different [TS]

  size bands but if you buy a stainless steel appl watch you could buy you know [TS]

  you can fit any of the other bands on it that are meant for the larger size right [TS]

  knew I i think thats am demanding are they gonna come with liked it seems just [TS]

  on the site that the aluminum watches will be available with a certain set of [TS]

  bands in the Steelers Steelers be available to different set and I get you [TS]

  can change them after the fact but when you buy it up front or are you your [TS]

  options limited I don't think they've answered that gets into the retail [TS]

  portion of the two and a half hour mark is kind of this is hurry but I do think [TS]

  that the retail question is fascinating and in terms of how are you going to how [TS]

  are your configuration options going to be and how are they going to set that up [TS]

  in the store and I i said it right away right away I thought man this is why [TS]

  indolence yaaay the higher Derby why she took the job because it's you know [TS]

  there's a clear enormous challenge ahead to turn the Apple stores as we know them [TS]

  into a place where you at by stuff like this and then know how much they gonna [TS]

  keep in stock we gonna be able to buy the Golden Apple Store are they sell [TS]

  them at places like to know you know places that sell a variety of you know [TS]

  like 2000 is a reseller of wristwatches but you can buy different brands it's [TS]

  not just just Rolex or just Omega or whatever they you know whether be like [TS]

  an apple kiosk in it doesn't know where you buy the additional here here's I [TS]

  don't know is it was rumored it was rumored before the event that Apple was [TS]

  a negotiation was talking with Nordstrom about the papal pay thing but Nordstrom [TS]

  wasn't wasn't up on the screen when they talk about it [TS]

  several other retailers but not Nordstrom Nordstrom actually makes a lot [TS]

  of sense for a gold watch like the Nordstrom plays they don't plan to very [TS]

  high end but they play in the medium and OOV especially with the bags in luxury [TS]

  they sell luxury goods they don't sell the crazy expensive luxury goods they [TS]

  sell the mid-range luxury and I wonder if they don't have the $85,000 watch but [TS]

  they might have easily could have a $5 right exactly and I think that's why I [TS]

  wonder if you think you wink to or I went to the Robert excrete grimly and I [TS]

  know but I thought this protocol was was very interesting where he surmised that [TS]

  the gold would mostly be a jeweler's Inwood yeah I think he's back on his [TS]

  good meds yeah I got the black for even liking to him at all but nothing too is [TS]

  this is an advantage I i suspect Apple did want to be there by the holidays who [TS]

  wouldn't but I think this is not used to being in the spring where you can't [TS]

  really rework the stores around the holidays right there it's it's just [TS]

  there whereas in the spring there's a lot more latitude to to move stuff [TS]

  around I don't even think they came close with a at whatever point where [TS]

  they thought maybe they would launch in time for holiday 2014 that was long time [TS]

  ago maybe even a year ago I I would be shocked if even at the beginning of this [TS]

  year there was any hope that they would do it you know i i think you know [TS]

  honestly I me Justin but just when did Angela Ahrendts come on board I don't [TS]

  think she came on board full time until June or May or something like that all [TS]

  the amazing one thing about the retail thing the most interesting I think we [TS]

  talked about this in the West timers on the show but when the most inching [TS]

  higher they made was the album its guy and was interesting about it was that he [TS]

  wasn't a product I he was a channel guy and by chance i mean like where your [TS]

  products or salt so he helped negotiate like forum regular [TS]

  where tag heuer watches were sold which meant that lots relationships with with [TS]

  places like Nordstrom with department stores here in Asia I guess all [TS]

  department stores are there are no malls per se their their their department [TS]

  stores where it's at [TS]

  one entity but within that was like sub shops basically and all these half was [TS]

  very good and they have boutiques and stuff like that within within the thing [TS]

  there's definitely a different sort of retail environment then anywhere else [TS]

  would have had experience with with previously LVM aged first for those who [TS]

  don't know is Louie Vuitton [TS]

  parent company Moet champagne right so it's [TS]

  penicillin Hennessy Cognac right but they have a whole portfolio stuff I [TS]

  think they have do or they have I got hold their did they have a ton of brands [TS]

  super actually but that higher was interesting because because of the [TS]

  channel engle [TS]

  all of his experience all of his experience points to think I i I can't [TS]

  imagine mean anybody can always change course careers in a change careers [TS]

  course and do something different but if he's gonna do anything based on what he [TS]

  did [TS]

  elvemage I would be getting the Apple watch into other retailers right and and [TS]

  this sort of retailers that would sell tag heuer watches and TAG Heuer is not [TS]

  selling three or you with the places that assigned to your watches are not [TS]

  selling swatches like 30 $300 watches so few more points 1 I wanted to hit the [TS]

  last one from ATP follow but John Siracusa I think he said you know [TS]

  in terms of quantity clearly that the sport of dissonance is going to sell [TS]

  itself the gold edition edition endicott the Apple cause I'm collections to avoid [TS]

  calling it the Apple so so the Apple sport collection is going to outsell the [TS]

  Apple edition collection in terms of quantity but I am not entirely sure that [TS]

  all that in terms of this is in contrast to his take I don't know that Apple [TS]

  edition collection might be the one that makes the most revenue will I think [TS]

  it'll be so yeah profit and revenue that it you know that if they're going to it [TS]

  is not just even if its I i think is going to sell more than one percent of [TS]

  the unit but even if it only shows to 34 percent I think it's gonna be so [TS]

  expensive that it will it will easily be you know ten or twenty times more [TS]

  profitable than the $349 one and so even if it only sells 5 percent of the units [TS]

  worldwide that's fifty percent of the revenue officer India thing too is if if [TS]

  there's another reason to presume that Apple's being more ambitious than less [TS]

  when it comes to the functionality of the watch because if it turns out to be [TS]

  watching you want to wear every day you're almost certainly gonna buy [TS]

  additional bands right and some of those bands are not going to be cheap and [TS]

  especially if you're buying a Gold Edition and you actually use it and you [TS]

  actually becomes it becomes irregular part of your wife you're gonna wanna [TS]

  have different bands for to make it fit in different occasions and what's what's [TS]

  so Apple about this in uu nelda Sinnoh wink yesterday but you know there is the [TS]

  link to article i think im afraid he said they don't cannibalize phones no [TS]

  not not only is it not only is it key to Apple's won jeopardy in success that [TS]

  they are willing to cannibalize their own products what so brilliant about [TS]

  Apple is they have always cannibalize their products with more profitable [TS]

  products and iPad [TS]

  has better margins that amount an iPhone not only has better Mart margins that an [TS]

  iPod is also whole way more expensive so they're getting more on the top and [TS]

  bottom line like if you're gonna care about your products it would be great if [TS]

  you do with an even more advanced of objects and if you're talking about [TS]

  having a knife and a watch that is the center of your existence in 56 years [TS]

  from now and oh by the way you paid $2,000 $5,000 for it plus a bunch of [TS]

  like $500 accessories Apple's pretty okay with you using your iPhone just a [TS]

  little bit less than you did before [TS]

  what are the things that I'm terms like you said that you how customizable is [TS]

  going to be when you buy it I presume order it online it's going to be [TS]

  completely customizable you get whatever band whichever one you want I don't know [TS]

  but if you go in and they only have a couple of presets setup that you've [TS]

  picked from these to start with and if you want to buy a second bomb by a [TS]

  second man one of the things that interesting to me and I don't know how [TS]

  it's gonna work out is that if you notice that the the the side of the [TS]

  digital crown like the part if you were gonna precedent the digital crown is [TS]

  colored to match the band like when I saw one of the smaller size with the red [TS]

  like a rich maroon band the button wasn't black it was maroon imagine only [TS]

  are not at all the editions so sport for example they're all the same I think [TS]

  that's initially edition edition so that says to me that they're going to be that [TS]

  they're going to be matched yes although as a unit with a band you can buy [TS]

  another band but then like if you buy like a white bandage still gonna have [TS]

  the red button on the side [TS]

  who knows but I did think that was interesting and it jumped out at me and [TS]

  i dont i dont know im just looking for this edition that has different colors [TS]

  the stainless steel is all black and is always just a little bit upset another [TS]

  signifier of which of which when you buy right I did notice I can I saw during [TS]

  the event and he was wearing the edition edition but he added on sport band I [TS]

  couldn't tell time on stage and I also saw him walking by saw Tim Cook walking [TS]

  by [TS]

  he was either wearing the stainless steel one or the spotlight again like I [TS]

  said at a glance you know he's walking into motion it was too hard to see how [TS]

  shiny it was but he also was wearing the sport band which I thought was kind of [TS]

  interesting that they they both wore the sport band even with the one that i [TS]

  think is going to be multiple thousands of dollars that is interesting news I'm [TS]

  using that they would have at least a prototype in the lab that they could [TS]

  wear even if they weren't you know widely available [TS]

  well know that they had the band's you know there for us in the press to try to [TS]

  you know we could try all the bands you know but the ones that they're wearing [TS]

  as like their their actual daily use as they used to test the things he said the [TS]

  event you know where the the the everyman you know the band alright last [TS]

  question I have a watch and i think is what have you talked about but I thought [TS]

  it was pretty interesting where do you think they're going to assemble them [TS]

  yeah I i've gotten this question too I think it depends on the model I don't [TS]

  know it is especially for sport I believe will be assembled in China at [TS]

  Foxconn or similar type place [TS]

  I don't know that you can sell a $10,000 watch that was assembled in China I [TS]

  think in the same way that went to my article I said like one reason I think [TS]

  they call that Apple watching sort of I watch as I watch sounds like a cutie [TS]

  thing that costs 350 bucks does not sound like something you piece of [TS]

  jewelry is spent $10,000 assembled in China does not compute to me for five [TS]

  thousand $10,000 product that and it's a big game for all their comparisons to [TS]

  the watch world that's a big deal where watches are made you know swiss-made is [TS]

  is the gold standard for you know it's a sign of quality too bad you call it a [TS]

  badge of honor for the whole country in Switzerland and they certainly obviously [TS]

  been making making efforts in this regard in especially if they're i mean [TS]

  that's how many pieces the more the more that especially with this chip breaks a [TS]

  lot a lot of the manual labor when it comes to billion computer is still on [TS]

  the motherboard and it's still like like a lot of one of its like is done by hand [TS]

  because it requires very precise you know sort of invitation in addition [TS]

  there's been report you just do a search on global like to have a motherboard [TS]

  factory I think an attack is done as done some of these before like it's very [TS]

  very manual and that's where the payoff for having a lil were cost labor force [TS]

  pays off in this sort of stuff if you're building a the entire computer on a chip [TS]

  that's you know simply wrapped up in resin that's by definition the computer [TS]

  is being built entirely by a machine and it doesn't really matter where you run a [TS]

  machine it's gonna cost you know i've seen the operator costs will vary but [TS]

  the sort of person echoed operatives were machines in be almost expensive in [TS]

  China as they are they are in the united states right and I guess I could see [TS]

  that this is going to be a huge shift in other than the Mac Pro is just the [TS]

  beginning but that maybe they will be assembled [TS]

  in Aus and the very least I wouldn't be surprised if the edition edition is [TS]

  assembled in Aus [TS]

  again if you're gonna sell it for $10,000 they can afford you know the [TS]

  difference in hourly wage for the people doing the actual assembly so do you [TS]

  think it adds to the entire like its intangible factor right with your [TS]

  driving edit it means something to be to have that made made in USA may use away [TS]

  believing even to people who aren't in the USA right it's it's it's the EU made [TS]

  at the point of the watch this is my question for you is he is Apple AAPL [TS]

  targeting are they targeting people who don't wear watches but do carry iPhones [TS]

  or do you think they are very much targeting people who wear watches today [TS]

  I think that they are I don't think they would have invited I think it's both i [TS]

  think that they they see it as an opportunity to see people who don't wear [TS]

  watches as as I think it's both it's ok that you watched at your risk is already [TS]

  open so we don't have to convince you to switch watches we deserve to convince [TS]

  you to buy one your risk is already there waiting for and I think they're [TS]

  absolutely courting people who already wear watches I don't think there's any [TS]

  other explanation for the time they spent in the event talking about that I [TS]

  watches accuracy which is baffling to me at first because of course it's a cure [TS]

  all computers with a clock are incredibly accurate compared to you know [TS]

  mechanical watches you know my iPhone doesn't lose time I mean this stuff [TS]

  about 50 millisecond precision is a little crazy but I think it's somehow [TS]

  trying to set up as a watches a white guys what we have heard that that that [TS]

  that I'm still confused I i [TS]

  yeah I don't know I'm still not sure why I think they were trying to land the [TS]

  idea that this is a watch like there there is that is a reason to buy it is [TS]

  because it's now that I think about it wasn't actually I guess it wasn't for [TS]

  watched people it was for [TS]

  the lay persons expectation for what to watch person would get exactly they were [TS]

  actually speaking directly to watch people they were expect they're talking [TS]

  to light the writers in the audience who don't know the watch world but their [TS]

  imagination of it is that it's you know of course act I'm time accuracy is now I [TS]

  think to me i i really think the most like this question of modularity is is [TS]

  absolutely is unbelievably fascinating and I think will completely change if [TS]

  it's true and complete change the entire expectation an idea of what the swatches [TS]

  be as if it's not modular if it's just a consumer trying to device disposal [TS]

  consumer electronics device I don't think they are really targeting watch [TS]

  people because they [TS]

  washable don't buy watches they buy watches for very specific reasons that [TS]

  would not be addressed by an apple watch and in this case the edition version the [TS]

  gold version really is all about skimming off money from people who are [TS]

  Linda Thoren Apple in asia and in which is it's it's it's it's [TS]

  that's fine as a reason to add it's kind of a a unsatisfying unsatisfying [TS]

  response on the other hand if it is modular and your when you buy in [TS]

  addition you're buying something that Apple is saying will be good for at [TS]

  least what ten years or maybe ideally a lifetime now you actually are very much [TS]

  targeting your you you're targeting people who value watches for their [TS]

  interest because of work because it you're tarring watch guys and and I [TS]

  think it's about cutting off future watch guys from becoming and women watch [TS]

  people that that it's you know for young people who've never won one and as they [TS]

  get more money and they become more successful than they can afford more [TS]

  expensive things that they're not even gonna consider a traditional watch [TS]

  because they can go this route and they've already gotten in the habit of [TS]

  wearing one from the sport addition they bought when they were you know in the [TS]

  $350 not not just a bigger reason to know I completely agree with nothing [TS]

  just occurred to me is [TS]

  a reason why Apple might want to the module thing is just speaking for myself [TS]

  if it's if it's a throw away all by the sport if its modular all by the [TS]

  stainless steel like it it's like it's pretty obvious and I suspect that [TS]

  thinking it's not just that the people watch guys but I think their ability to [TS]

  deliver people up to a higher margin product will be drastically enhanced by [TS]

  if they were able to get to pull that off and it would explain why that's it [TS]

  that the mid-priced here is the one that's being sure you know established [TS]

  as the the regular total the one that just has the place removes all these I [TS]

  think this makes all these questions that people are objecting to thoughts of [TS]

  the wise much less objectionable because now it's not that Apple is selling a a [TS]

  throwaway device that the the question of why would you spend money on this is [TS]

  very much tied into the question of why would I spend money on a product that is [TS]

  gonna be worthless in two years that question changes very fundamentally if [TS]

  you know you're buying something that has longevity like the these sort of [TS]

  things like it tells time and just has it just has a disposable components the [TS]

  idea it's enough to just be a watch then if you know it's enough to be a health [TS]

  tracker will you know it lasts a long time I don't understand not fully aware [TS]

  of the laws surrounding how how and when things need to be said where they're [TS]

  made it my understanding of that like its you have to you have to like things [TS]

  that are made in China have to say made in China to be sold in the USA and [TS]

  around the world [TS]

  it's not you know Apple doesn't necessarily choose to to print designed [TS]

  by Apple in California assembled in China devices they get there is a legal [TS]

  obligation there that will watch the date shown has no printed in dishes [TS]

  indication of where they're made there's nothing and if you look at the case back [TS]

  where they have all this nation type stamped into it doesn't say that most [TS]

  watches say it on the dial at the bottom of the dialog will save made in Japan [TS]

  Swiss made Japanese movement can they do that in software I don't know and and if [TS]

  its modular can they have the s1 made in Japan and a Foxconn factory sealed up [TS]

  and shipped to the us- and have them have it put into the watch over here [TS]

  what that means is that if you know how much of it if the whole s1 was [TS]

  manufactured in China can they still say that the watch is assembled in the USA [TS]

  because the Sapphire and the band and the battery and everything was snapped [TS]

  into place by someone [TS]

  yes yes yes the iPhone says Made in China but actually the value of the [TS]

  iPhone Taiwan and Korea especially make way more money off of every iPhone in [TS]

  China does the made in China applies to just the final assembly and so they [TS]

  could assemble in which I'm sure it'd be the case I mean Taiwan is like even more [TS]

  so today is very much tied up in the iPhone though tons of the components are [TS]

  made here I'm sure it'd be a similar thing with with the with the watch all [TS]

  that matters is the final assembly I think I think then I really do think [TS]

  that at least the addition and I think maybe even the stainless will be [TS]

  assembled in the USA in estimating a good athlete they have the printing on [TS]

  the back I would imagine that they would put it there if they did but there's no [TS]

  reason for them to have it now it's not it's not for sale on the prototypes but [TS]

  I I just don't see how you can sell high-end watch that made in China and I [TS]

  know that that sort of thinking kind of did in the Swiss industry in the [TS]

  seventies I when they had their dark ages when quartz watches first became a [TS]

  thing one of the reasons they wrote them off was that they were all made in Japan [TS]

  like nobody's going to buy it watch from Japan Japan means crap you know it was [TS]

  you know the watch industry ran into the same Japanese buzz saw that the car [TS]

  automotive industry did you know nobody's gonna buy japanese cars [TS]

  Japanese stuff is a joke and you know there's that thinking that made in China [TS]

  is sort of a bad well and and and shame but it's not a badge of honor it doesn't [TS]

  stand for quality made in China just means well everything's made in China [TS]

  made in USA means something right in the thing is is that the difference with the [TS]

  watch industry in the seventies was there there was no like it was all it [TS]

  was all Switzerland so this was completely new wears a ball would be [TS]

  entering environment now where there are the expectation of there being a low-end [TS]

  is art is already there and so where's the watched like this with industry had [TS]

  to deal with basically there was a big watch market they owned it all and [TS]

  suddenly this whole in like we've we've talked before like the consumer market [TS]

  there is it's bifurcated bifurcated between the high and the low in the [TS]

  world cares only about price and so there is a new option for price at the [TS]

  low end and they just couldn't respond that's not gonna be surprised they're [TS]

  gonna be there [TS]

  everyone knows that that's the case and those products are already on the market [TS]

  is already the where devices there that made sense but that it made sense in my [TS]

  head [TS]

  well that's a good point in me to wrap this up is possibly record-breaking [TS]

  online but there's so much to talk about [TS]

  can't even imagine that I thought last week maybe i'd get to the white with [TS]

  Renee Ben Thompson thank you so much for being here everybody can read been on a [TS]

  daily basis [TS]

  effectively at your websites directory the directory as I I have lost a couple [TS]

  free articles a week and I have the four paid daily updates and it's well worth [TS]

  it is great stuff you've been killing it all year [TS]

  perfect example to that they are linked to order this week of the best way to be [TS]

  right all the time [TS]

  almost at times be willing to change your mind change your mind in course of [TS]

  two weeks it's true I have to you know what I mean is it a high compliment [TS]

  because it's you know it's human nature not to you know we want to be right at [TS]

  the first time and it's more important to just keep thinking we might we both [TS]

  might be wrong to I think that's what's that's what's so it's almost like I've [TS]

  already written more things about it and I i felt I could I'm always worried [TS]

  about people being bored but that's what's so we haven't had something of [TS]

  the iPad kind of but I've I feel this is what makes us more compelling than the [TS]

  iPad for me is that it's smaller in a into me I think that's that's important [TS]

  like it makes it a potentially more meaningful device because portability [TS]

  will always be a key constraint and it's just so fascinating I yeah yeah the iPad [TS]

  was not like oh wow I can't believe they could make this race right exactly where [TS]

  as I think the watch is going right into what that means in people criticize the [TS]

  Apple not being a while but if you think about it if you think about it the [TS]

  there's two alternates one is that they don't know too is that they're so far [TS]

  they're thinking is so far ahead of where our expectations are that we just [TS]

  like we we can't catch up in what's affecting is one it could go either way [TS]

  which is makes it really interesting but to if they are so far ahead there's a [TS]

  psych this so much Greenfield even imagine what might be possible in what [TS]

  might be coming and no I haven't been this like I don't obsess but just like [TS]

  constantly turning over my head what what a product could be in in a very [TS]

  long time [TS]

  exciting stuff to come by three sponsors great sponsors this week we got you bar [TS]

  from broader software dot com PRA wer software dot com taskbar stock [TS]

  replacement for the Mac fracture tractor get your pictures printed on [TS]

  glass and third sponsor with need need addition dot com there's that word [TS]

  addition again [TS]

  men's magazine great curated close coffee gadgets the fact that my thanks [TS]

  to them and thanks thank you [TS]