The Talk Show

97: ‘Copious Software Projects’, With Guy English


  hey man how's he getting how you know it's funny watching baseball and you [TS]

  don't really you don't really have a vested interest in any of the particular [TS]

  teams and then I get like I develop a little mini interest in one of the teams [TS]

  and you know how it was we were talking about the journal World Cup where like [TS]

  to TNC you don't really care about our plan and then one of them will do [TS]

  something and it's like that's my teen then they're they're like invested for [TS]

  like you're like a fan for an hour [TS]

  yeah until the duration is is over and then then this penalty kicks and you [TS]

  don't give a crap right now I became a temporary fan of the Los Angeles Dodgers [TS]

  simply because their manager Don Mattingly who was he was on the Yankees [TS]

  when I was growing up use my boyhood very you think to do that is so [TS]

  arbitrary it's crazy he was my favorite Yankee growing up he was awesome [TS]

  always loved the managers Yankees thats if your answer [TS]

  yeah he played first base he was an all-star first baseman for the Yankees [TS]

  through the eighties and then sort of the tragic career he's he's the without [TS]

  doubt the greatest new york yankee who never won World Series and not only [TS]

  never won a World Series II never won a playoff series he played right after the [TS]

  Reggie Jackson era Yankees had won some World Series and then he played right [TS]

  through the eighties and early nineties when the Yankees were actually pretty [TS]

  bad overall he was a star player in pretty bad team and then in his last [TS]

  season cut short he added relatively short career than most players had a bad [TS]

  back [TS]

  1995 from injury yea well just wear and tear who knows he can't have a funny [TS]

  batting career he squatted over maybe that contributed to a bad back so it's [TS]

  going to be as last year and Yankees made the playoffs for the first time in [TS]

  a long time and they lost a [TS]

  a game 5 in a five-game series to the Seattle Mariners john bolton Steam [TS]

  Canadians then he retired and then then starting in ninety six the Yankees won [TS]

  for the next by world leaders so yeah so he sort of a tragic figure in my mind [TS]

  and now he's managing the Dodgers and they are still working in the field [TS]

  that's not everybody gets to do that well now that's true and they just right [TS]

  before we started recording their blood since Dodgers were eliminated just like [TS]

  the cherry on his shit Sunday basically and it was closed Davis 322 heartbreaker [TS]

  so you know what you turning the amount on baseball little bit for the playoffs [TS]

  playoff baseball as a different sport and see if anything is good but yeah I [TS]

  can see how a lot of people someone who doesn't really get it would could get it [TS]

  seemed things to me with with the soccer there I'm not gonna really watch regular [TS]

  season soccer but I i'm into the World Cup now yeah [TS]

  euro to you stick your as we're going to have to pick something you know what i [TS]

  mean your competition with panelists and left it what I like about soccer is the [TS]

  end and it's kind of what you guys discuss it then surely the school and [TS]

  doesn't matter it's two stories to get too old after the game with Derek Jeter [TS]

  where you could both counts crazy moves it he did and you know not want to do [TS]

  you ever heard him mention the scoreline right and if you look at that sort of [TS]

  spreadsheet like you know here's the game reduced in numbers it just doesn't [TS]

  it doesn't show up it doesn't pop off the page ya when I'm dismissive of a [TS]

  statically baseball stats right only because without context so much that is [TS]

  completely [TS]

  I was adverse to baseball for many years probably still AM because it seems to [TS]

  finish my stats in a way because nothing else going on sometimes yeah it lends [TS]

  itself to it to its the page 22 game that lends itself to the keeping of [TS]

  innumerable statistics and there's ways to show that all sorts of those [TS]

  statistics correlate at least in some way to winning and losing and surely you [TS]

  know it's just lend itself to just elaborate elaborate statistical analysis [TS]

  and i ended up dead to me off though because when you start telling stories [TS]

  about Derek Jeter whoever I'm all into that I love that stuff at that's kind of [TS]

  way I like soccer and wanna say heroism but it's the you know if it's the ups [TS]

  and downs of individual players teams and two catches my attention [TS]

  yeah bottom line for me and i know i every week there's always somebody out [TS]

  there but the bottom line from the pline it to it fits right in with Iran like [TS]

  technology since yeah who's a big baseball fan likes football to USB but [TS]

  you know obviously with all the in comparable-store he does he he consumes [TS]

  an enormous amount of fiction narrative fiction it to me a lot of sports fans [TS]

  release that like in my friend mad parlance Tatra story is the story guys [TS]

  like me we watch sports for the same reason we like to watch things like [TS]

  movies is there's drama but it's the weird thing with sports with a movie it [TS]

  sensibly there's always gonna be drama and there's always going to be a good [TS]

  ending good stories sometimes a sports game is just boring because one team [TS]

  jumped out nothing crazy [TS]

  so you can't fake and then all of a sudden sometimes it's the read it two in [TS]

  the ninth inning and the bases are loaded and nobody is out and you've got [TS]

  a real story and nobody there is no one person like an officer or director who [TS]

  gets to decide how it turns out based on what they think you know and it's that [TS]

  differences that realness it's that sometimes is you know you know the good [TS]

  guys meaning the team I'm rooting for you are going to lose they're not always [TS]

  gonna win like this [TS]

  dodgers manager right good go rest ye merry his nickname literally I swear to [TS]

  God his nickname is Donnie baseball as it is like this game right [TS]

  done a baseball how does he get like that's crazy had to get that nickname is [TS]

  like the baseball players baseball player Billy hes that can I swear to god [TS]

  did I heard it the other day he's the guy who there's a YouTube clip of it [TS]

  like in the regular season game in 1985 there was a foul ball that because I pop [TS]

  up going over into the stands and he ran over to see if he could catch it and it [TS]

  went too far into the stands can catch 'it meanwhile there's a kid in the front [TS]

  row eating box of popcorn in the kid turned around to the ball landed and [TS]

  Mattingly just reaches over and takes a handful and then he just took it turns [TS]

  around and is like whoa Don Mattingly just don't have and in mattingly just [TS]

  give them a little not like thanks for bob [TS]

  goes back to first base to finish the game [TS]

  rate that that's why he's done like while playing at the highest level he's [TS]

  also thinking that's perfect see ya that's that's way better than what was [TS]

  batting average yeah right but he took the popcorn that cool to me he's on my [TS]

  fantasy team immediately they're talking on sports if anybody's listening stop [TS]

  first of all second a sports game but I do enjoy stories right now [TS]

  yeah to me that's listed though it's just the way it's a way of hopefully [TS]

  manufacturing some actual drama that's gonna be it's going to come to a [TS]

  conclusion [TS]

  fair and square abilities of the people involved not even fair and square if you [TS]

  get it just right [TS]

  but even then it adds to the story [TS]

  yes and the other thing too about to me it makes what's appealing is that it's [TS]

  the fact is the complaint that a lot of people have about sports is that will it [TS]

  pointless but that's sort of what makes it it makes it exciting because you can [TS]

  get all invested in it and the team you're rooting for more invested win [TS]

  lose and it's you know it hurts and you're upset and you feel terrible for a [TS]

  day but ultimately it's ok because it was just nothing only invested what [TS]

  you've put on the table like right this is something change anybody's life right [TS]

  whereas in that she actually bit heavy which don't want to that way but whereas [TS]

  concentrating something [TS]

  even more dramatic but beware the stakes are real like you know the situation in [TS]

  the Middle East between Israel and Palestine or Isis outfit anything like [TS]

  that [TS]

  all sorts of incredibly exciting drama involved great stories to be told but [TS]

  the stakes are so real it's real stuff you can't you can't take it lightly and [TS]

  can you know when when there's a big turn of events you can't go well that [TS]

  was some butt to bed he you know yeah I know I think with sports [TS]

  win or lose in a way you can always laugh at yourself right like I can't [TS]

  believe how so happy that just Bantam team did this random thing I can't [TS]

  believe it was so bummed out that they lost ya with real life stuff like you [TS]

  don't get a lot of these people's lives on the line [TS]

  things right we can be happy that the Death Star governor because you know the [TS]

  six billion people on the planet Alderaan [TS]

  there wasn't actually a real Holocaust happened it was just something that was [TS]

  in the face vs about how horrible movie should be looked into one dead people [TS]

  movie right there might have been more people killed in that movie than any [TS]

  other movie ever think that that's actually an interesting argument I would [TS]

  almost certainly think that that is closed right I mean right if you assume [TS]

  we don't know learn much about alder and that's assuming was roughly earth like [TS]

  five to six billion people right plus all the people dead on the deaths which [TS]

  has been done in two ya [TS]

  interminable rebels killed right mix [TS]

  voters seemed like a teddy bear because he only killed one person [TS]

  bad didn't have anything to do with firing the deaths are that was all part [TS]

  time to talk with people in here if ya know what does a good time before we get [TS]

  started on what people really want to hear about let's knock out the first [TS]

  sponsor and let me tell everybody but are good friends returning as a sponsor [TS]

  the show good friends at Sharis berries makes high quality men's shaving stuff [TS]

  and makes it available [TS]

  a terrific price I've noticed before but it's a great story has restarted by guy [TS]

  who went in was out of town traveling went into a drug store realized in [TS]

  packaging stuff went in and all the shaving stuff in the drug stories all [TS]

  locked up behind the case have to get a clerk opened it and then you find out [TS]

  it's like 40 bucks for a pack of razor blades so he thought hey there's gotta [TS]

  be a better way this stuff is only like two or three big companies [TS]

  scheck and whoever else who control this stuff these prices of gotta be [TS]

  artificially high end up they are and so harry's focus as is just a pure [TS]

  old-fashioned disruption you go you sign up and carries you get a kid you get a [TS]

  reusable razor and then you get a couple of blade to start with and then going [TS]

  forward you just get new BladeCenter you really good price [TS]

  half the price of the competitors like gillette Marco did the research model to [TS]

  steal his research from an ATP where they sponsor but Marco went to Amazon [TS]

  and price you know a pack of Gillette Fusion blades [TS]

  forty some bucks at Amazon Amazon cut the prices as low as the same equivalent [TS]

  pack up later marries was 20 bucks really so they say half the price they [TS]

  read about half the price literally half the price [TS]

  chipper mightier really really cool product design just nice feeling nice [TS]

  feel to the stuff really nice have really likeI love the thing it's just [TS]

  feels like something's gonna last forever [TS]

  nice branding everything stacy is packaged in everything opened up nice is [TS]

  no blister packs for a crap like that its nice little cardboard package open [TS]

  up just couldn't be better if you're using anything else you're probably [TS]

  paying too much and you're probably not getting as good as stuff and the other [TS]

  thing I was love this too is it just shows how serious these guys is that [TS]

  they're not just like white labeling some kind of razor blades they get from [TS]

  some generic contractor like they went to Germany and bought a razor blade [TS]

  facts and they make their own of German engineered razor blades like they're not [TS]

  just buying Chinese raisers putting his name on it making her own in Germany I [TS]

  love it [TS]

  super convenient just like anything else that once you get used to order it [TS]

  online instead of having to go to the store and buy it every couple weeks or [TS]

  months it just never go back [TS]

  really good stuff high-quality great price so here's what you do and you'll [TS]

  get five bucks off your first purchase if you do it I tell you to do which is [TS]

  go to Harry's dot com H A R R Y S dot com and use the promo code talk show [TS]

  just TLK W and you'll save five bucks off your first purchase and their [TS]

  regular prices are already really low so go do that my thanks to Harry's full [TS]

  disclosure harris also sponsors [TS]

  but you know what pretty awesome I'm really happy to have you in the past two [TS]

  days ago some samples are you shaving cream and aftershave [TS]

  they don't like you know what they love me and telling you it's just saw this I [TS]

  think now you know I heard that I heard that they they got a new cream they've [TS]

  allowed during cream instead of like the first cream that they have which is when [TS]

  I uses [TS]

  doesn't really work up a ladder it's just like it works great but it doesn't [TS]

  like foam up to the new one that some people just some people disliked it yet [TS]

  they have one in today just today and haven't read it yet but the bottle is [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  after she ate sort of thing to try tomorrow but it's great i love it and [TS]

  you know what this case the product packaging and I love the way the [TS]

  delivery to design everything about it is just amazing I don't even care what's [TS]

  in the bottle I feel bad it's one of those things like Apple products where I [TS]

  feel bad during the box out yeah I keep my boxers until I get made fun of to the [TS]

  point is he gonna give it is this thing still have my MacPro boxes you see it [TS]

  now [TS]

  no good reason to wait 20 minutes into the show [TS]

  yeah here's my big the big topic I think and I don't know where the leaders won't [TS]

  get into the details but it's this idea that we've you you and i have been [TS]

  involved in several of these threads this week on Twitter couple have two [TS]

  and I think it's not that I'm hunting for people who agree with me but I just [TS]

  did that doesn't really see I I found it very curious that there was nobody [TS]

  arguing the other side which is more or less he says that to a deposit at least [TS]

  this year with iOS aid and Yosemite Apple bit off more than it can chew in [TS]

  terms of how much it was going to do ship and it's the quality control is [TS]

  suffering therefore that they they tried to do too much by September when they [TS]

  had to ship because the new iPhones needed Iowa State and that this annual [TS]

  schedule there tonight at the annual schedule is necessarily too too short a [TS]

  period but that they're trying to do too much in those annual schedules and if [TS]

  they want to do that much between major releases it has to be more than here and [TS]

  if they wanted to be a year they have to do less at a time ok so yes I was asked [TS]

  about this and stated like that actually doing this similarly and a lot of the [TS]

  subjects you can't keep making the giant leads that each of these oases take in [TS]

  this space of a year and the reason for that is that you don't have a you to do [TS]

  it you've got maybe four or five maybe six months [TS]

  ya un you made this point on a vector last week or debugging [TS]

  whichever whichever explain but explained I thought this is and I don't [TS]

  think that this I don't think people think this because people think like [TS]

  well it's been a year since I was seven came out so why couldn't they do this [TS]

  anymore but explain the reason is and is not just me this is you know I've talked [TS]

  to you [TS]

  project management and people inside Apple's actually pretty much the fact [TS]

  with the case it's a fact because I can't prove it first few months spent [TS]

  fixing the bugs that you did she write the eight points you won and even if we [TS]

  get back to you if you forget if you forget what it was like a year ago when [TS]

  I was 7 for ship don't worry about it just think about what what you must [TS]

  assume people at Apple work on iOS are doing right now today they've got to be [TS]

  working on iowa have to be in everybody knows alright so they're doing that now [TS]

  we ship it called that call that October November maybe even December so the Iowa [TS]

  City 801 hit forty to fifty thousand people I don't understand if you look at [TS]

  10 min clean install base despite its bad news rights and it's it's enough [TS]

  like and you know it's clearly this small samples of the definition of [TS]

  exactly what the day that that happened [TS]

  8.01 day goes on Wednesday whatever day that day and my pally the bartender [TS]

  Haley he he was guest bartending Jose Garces restaurant in Philadelphia for [TS]

  happy hour and invited me to come and so got got the kid taking care of it you [TS]

  know 51 a couple cocktails with Lee at any place and he sat next to a guy and [TS]

  guys have sex you happen to be hungry and I don't get that much I am a big fan [TS]

  he is just an attorney in Philadelphia also found a house in London bridges [TS]

  iPhone six-plus that day because he'd like came out Headley Court in the [TS]

  morning had lunch came out to lunch at 8.01 was out hit update and by one [TS]

  o'clock his brand new iPhone six-plus could make phone calls so you know I [TS]

  thought that was really interesting wow I just met somebody who got hit by the [TS]

  bug so it seems to me like it's pretty prevalent forty fifty thousand people [TS]

  again could've been a lot worse if it was everybody but I think the window is [TS]

  pretty small and it was alright how many hours is posted for her well but it was [TS]

  weird though because I it's one of those weird things about the way stuff [TS]

  propagates around the world without bail on the CD and that they use when they [TS]

  were still I still get a hearing from people on Twitter saying it like four in [TS]

  the afternoon eastern time that their iPhone was still offering it and they [TS]

  knew not to allow it but if they didn't you know hadn't been following the tech [TS]

  news of the day that might get you know still hadn't been rescinded from at [TS]

  least their phones perspective [TS]

  yeah and you know you have a pretty broad audience but that is a tiny slice [TS]

  of apple and yeah and I guess it kind of makes sense that that that would be the [TS]

  max you know that something like that would be the number because if it was a [TS]

  hundred percent of people than it would have been caught yeah whatever the [TS]

  circumstances were that made that made this and I'm still not seen anybody to [TS]

  Delta update like if you just as the Delta download from a specific version [TS]

  but it must have been something like that because if it affected everybody it [TS]

  never affected and 5% for some reason [TS]

  you know this if you have that if you have this then found just didn't wasn't [TS]

  in their testing matrix I guess I think it was business inside of the train did [TS]

  actually manage our business is business week I'm sorry it's funny that a good [TS]

  idea since the case of business week that horrible you missing history and [TS]

  it's completely pointless yeah that was a really I thought that was so uncalled [TS]

  for [TS]

  done it's it's like when I his BS cold out together losses iPhone 4 prototype [TS]

  right and guess what I houses I'm gonna call you that which is again before it [TS]

  was even if I would say I would say was even worse than the entire peace based [TS]

  on who's this poor kid and complicated twenty-some-odd made a genuinely honest [TS]

  mistake there's no need to make more calls and autumn likes you know at least [TS]

  focus on the phone you got you really don't need to do a piece about the you [TS]

  know together goofed and lost it [TS]

  yeah i i was gonna say that was worse though and i dont worse is the wrong [TS]

  word but I would say in the wind reason I was going to say the least with the [TS]

  kid who lost the iPhone he really did lose the iPhone and what he was accused [TS]

  of having done is exactly what he did that he had as an engineer he had access [TS]

  to pre-release iPhone iphone4 to use in the wild for field testing and left it [TS]

  at a bar restaurant well we don't know where it was lifted [TS]

  was lifted but but you know but it was when you left which is exactly what [TS]

  happened nobody is that some dispute the first thing he did in the morning [TS]

  is calling so right right he did the right thing you know but with the [TS]

  BusinessWeek story name in the guy as being responsible for this 801 update [TS]

  and then further saying that he was on the QA team was leader of the Apple maps [TS]

  is actually wrong now you know I did the same thing as you I asked around and the [TS]

  guy is responsible for some level of QA at Apple but nobody inside Apple that I [TS]

  talked to said that there's any sense that he single-handedly pulled the [TS]

  trigger [TS]

  deserves that anybody other than the entire company deserves some credit for [TS]

  the for the fiasco [TS]

  you know business week made it sound like one guy was hitting the button and [TS]

  saying is ready to go and his role his role on maps was had nothing to do with [TS]

  the maps data it was the maps app which nobody I which I know for users they [TS]

  don't have it doesn't make a difference they don't see a difference between the [TS]

  data and the app but anybody who's listening to this show goes through [TS]

  knows the difference you know what anybody reporting on technology for [TS]

  business should know the different right it's like being you know it's it's bad [TS]

  it's sort of like the difference between your email client and what's in your [TS]

  emails you know your email clients fault if the emails are full of junk and the [TS]

  maps app worked fine it was just that it had bad data and you know empty dated [TS]

  that it was missing a lot of data we had nothing to do it it was that wasn't what [TS]

  he was cute [TS]

  there is listed in business week is like you know any insinuation it wasn't quite [TS]

  direct but the only insinuation you could draw from it is that was the worst [TS]

  thing though is that it was an insinuation it wasn't lake [TS]

  putting out the word behind the error like at least I will be adding this is [TS]

  just more like this was a backhanded gossipy stuff and it's like the [TS]

  insinuations Apple has at least one inept bozo who's still you know after he [TS]

  made a terrible mistake with the maps this dole bringing new iPhone which has [TS]

  so far just somebody by the game I'll tell you why I never told this story [TS]

  publicly I don't think but I well the writer of this one of the riders on that [TS]

  story was adam said Torreon oh and answer toria site or on a couple years [TS]

  ago wrote a piece for business week [TS]

  me yours truly John Gruber which I went along with half heartedly I did talk to [TS]

  him to get thirsty bear in france is your first mistake and I met with a [TS]

  colleague of his here in Philly for follow-up questions about what I do [TS]

  phenomenon and it was well as opposed to me initially as a deer gonna write a [TS]

  piece about the independent pack journalism web people like me and Arnold [TS]

  cam rumors and maybe Jim Dalrymple and other people like that you know people [TS]

  who are covering Apple but you know either individuals like me or you know [TS]

  publications like the loop [TS]

  rumors [TS]

  and it became very obvious to me as the interviews progress that it was not [TS]

  going to be that there was more just about me which I found uncomfortable and [TS]

  I encourage them to not make it about me and make it about all of us together [TS]

  of which I'm just one example and so I kind of and as it became clear to me [TS]

  it's participated lessons and you know I don't think I wasn't rude and I didn't [TS]

  stop talking to them but I stopped participating and they asked me to pose [TS]

  for a photograph refused that's awkward well i've seen the photographs the day [TS]

  and published of others and he made people look goofy like I told them this [TS]

  so like what's the guys name Gene Munster who famously the analyst Matt [TS]

  Zeman they can so I have a look to see if you google Gene Munster business week [TS]

  Bloomberg Bloomberg Businessweek [TS]

  going to a thousand books now I know thats 2012 I don't want to be too much [TS]

  fun it is to stock splits just not sure to 700 now if you don't get there too [TS]

  but that's it that's that's it look at the picture I would you do this to [TS]

  somebody right it's boring to me I think a very photo i mean i think is good [TS]

  because of the TV stuff that he's trained up but this is that don't do [TS]

  that you smarter than that yeah it's a clown yeah yeah and and i've seen other [TS]

  publications do this and I can also and so I wanted nothing to do with it and [TS]

  you don't get to approve its not like if they shoot 20 photos of me I get to them [TS]

  pick which one they can use their all there's yes [TS]

  nor would I allow them to use any of the photos I have so they think if you look [TS]

  at the profile their third party photos like a Creative Commons then from [TS]

  flippers something but anyway that's the main point though is that they would [TS]

  then towards the end they came out and asked the question I knew that they were [TS]

  going to ask which is how much money do you and I said to them said on the [TS]

  record I don't track cause he said really and I said really I don't keep [TS]

  track and I said off the record and he said what I said dad what you doin I [TS]

  just told you is what you can quote you can quote the world business week I [TS]

  don't know any other than that I'm not going to talk about and he was a guy so [TS]

  I could run out said sure I would love it if you read that right but instead [TS]

  said Gruber wouldn't discuss it but somebody familiar with his finances who [TS]

  happy with how I swear to God because he doesn't have permissions set paid his [TS]

  income at $400,000 you have a big organizations I mean God knows who [TS]

  leaked that made me so mad about that I i called Adam on it but privately and [TS]

  publicly I didn't want to bring it up until now the talk show me they can do [TS]

  it but I said I know that it bullshit I know that is bullshit is there's [TS]

  literally only three people on the planet who have any familiarity with my [TS]

  finances at all that mean my wife and my account and I guess maybe if there's a [TS]

  fourth day would be somebody at the IRS who handles the tax return to my account [TS]

  submit but [TS]

  even and I doubt that there's anybody remembers my name I presume that those [TS]

  things are completely yes just robot so there's literally only three people on [TS]

  the planet and I know for a fact that he didn't speak to the corner and so what I [TS]

  presume that I don't think he made it up I presume that what he did is he found [TS]

  one person is sponsored by sight and asked you know what did you pay for the [TS]

  sponsorship and multiplied it or something like that I don't know but [TS]

  there's no way that it isn't rates any website right played the data what he [TS]

  said though he did description he used in print in business week is absolutely [TS]

  incompatible with any way that he could have a number yeah I thought that was so [TS]

  telling will you know what it say he could get me a coffee go to this website [TS]

  finally this number multiplied by 12 right doesn't it just right but I feel [TS]

  like it's dishonest I feel like that's what he did then he should have said in [TS]

  print [TS]

  you know he should have a spell that out just like you didn't print and say [TS]

  there's a ballpark estimate there you go [TS]

  yeah you know what what he said was it somebody familiar with my finances you [TS]

  didn't have which it's made me mad [TS]

  two ways because the first way is that it's I know it's not true but the second [TS]

  way is it insinuate that there's somebody those close to me who betrayed [TS]

  me [TS]

  which is even more angry that my secondary reaction in fact that actually [TS]

  bothered me even more that somebody that I would I would share my finances with [TS]

  somebody in the day with black off the record to adam said to hurry on over [TS]

  business week so it always and I always file that in my head whenever I see I [TS]

  i've never I've always been a little bit skeptical of any unnamed sources in and [TS]

  eat anything i read online but after that I'm even more so when I see [TS]

  information attributed to people familiar with the matter [TS]

  yes I agree with you have rejected that intellectually but this is a good visual [TS]

  you know just being here Palin know that no thats nobody would do that I don't [TS]

  understand why I'm not a fan of atoms at work so he added this guide QA and [TS]

  whatever we are tracked way putting it in a way of severe it can be a pain in [TS]

  the ass right at least three months after the OS comes out your spic some [TS]

  bugs you know and you know during that time hopefully the management is [TS]

  trying to discern which the major teaches it can be able to make it into [TS]

  the next release and then you've got maybe you know between if you're lucky [TS]

  three to six months to implement if you like me and then last screens squeezing [TS]

  it in for WBC is you know I don't know what you know what [TS]

  December January timeline for you know I did last year what we call it didn't 7.1 [TS]

  didn't come out until March yeah but figure I figured just as a rough [TS]

  timeline that through December it was mostly heads down on fixing stuff and [TS]

  doing stuff or 7.1 January and February I'm sure a lot of resources started [TS]

  going towards Iowa seat but somewhat still finishing the final touches on 7.1 [TS]

  but then roughly you know up until June you're trying to get the first working [TS]

  version of new stuff done for the next version of the OS and yeah I'm hesitant [TS]

  to take months to certain phases right because you know I think that fluid but [TS]

  you know the general process is you'll get a few lucky Buddha six months to [TS]

  actually implement stuff and the rest of the time you know at the end you will be [TS]

  fixing everything that you find after you have him listed as a beta which is [TS]

  what WWC is right and so that means that anyone given new lease has really only [TS]

  had a few lucky three to six months actual development time in terms of [TS]

  implementing new features which is like creating [TS]

  trading create the creative fears of sovereign yes and so having this yearly [TS]

  schedule becomes owner is if you keep trying to buy it off [TS]

  giant you know portions of the pie if you know what you want to build gonna [TS]

  believe that Apple has a good line that goes out you know couple of versions at [TS]

  least they have aspirations you doing so only in chunks of three to six months of [TS]

  pure creative engineering rest of the time is dealing with the bugs you [TS]

  created in the previous version and the bugs are you fixing in order to get the [TS]

  current version out the door and [TS]

  and I you know I think ultimately what they want to get out the door may be [TS]

  running up against the limits of what they can achieve in that time frame [TS]

  yeah I totally agree with that I think they have compounded the problem I mean [TS]

  if this all sounds very negative but in the end of God Mac OS iOS and now [TS]

  they've got to wash away all of them increasingly have to work together at a [TS]

  time [TS]

  think maybe I think they'll be difficulties down the road though [TS]

  there's a lot of bootstrapping is quite the right word but it's your fitting [TS]

  where you know the way that these things are integrated with each other which is [TS]

  great and which is the way to go and which is better than the way that [TS]

  everything used to be a lot more siloed from Apple but the fact that it's all [TS]

  geared together creates these weird hiccups when one of the gears isn't [TS]

  ready yet [TS]

  right i mean just one example but I think it's a major one is the photos [TS]

  situation with Iowa where where are your photos and where they how many are [TS]

  backed up and the ones that are you know to the iCloud in and the fact that [TS]

  they're not even trying it with even with when you're seventy ships the new [TS]

  Mac photo stuff they've already said they said back into biddy biddy see that [TS]

  that wasn't coming till 2015 [TS]

  you know in terms of having the Mac be a full client towards this new iCloud [TS]

  centric look yeah and and I heard it suggested that they were doing in swift [TS]

  it it's not just takes that long to do that kind of it [TS]

  right and that they know that because they have they do have some experience [TS]

  with and it's always hard to estimate exactly it's impossible to write but [TS]

  they know how long it took to write iPhoto and they know how long it took to [TS]

  write a picture and they know how long a major update aperture took in how long [TS]

  the major update to iPhoto talk and they knew that what they are undertaking with [TS]

  this is you know in that scope me know that you know that's that's at nine ten [TS]

  months away thing but it's such a big hole in the process [TS]

  you know in the overall experience right now that nobody quite knows where their [TS]

  photos are and how to make sure that they're everywhere [TS]

  yeah I think it likely that they had not likely they were hurt their head this [TS]

  kind of weird little you know as you describe it did cause not maybe leading [TS]

  out exactly as expected and I don't think it's just so far but I think [TS]

  institutions have to sort of adapt to this kind of interconnected stuff [TS]

  they're committing to again you mention this on your show last week and i think [TS]

  is one other point I took note that it's worth pointing out and just saying it [TS]

  like a look we're literally armchair quarterbacks here we're just two guys [TS]

  you know the drill just two guys you know observing from across the continent [TS]

  and inside out with their leadership is running a hundred billion dollar a year [TS]

  corporation you know and we're not I'm not trying to tell them I know better [TS]

  i'm just still good stuff but I'm just say no as an observer if we want to just [TS]

  take a step back and look at the state that the whole software ecosystem is [TS]

  across the Apple board right now it's not good right now and September October [TS]

  yeah and last year was very similar I thought yeah I mean last year having a [TS]

  lot of his choc choc get up to when he was 72 changes for sale being gone right [TS]

  so that's going to be the process and they didn't write that those of us who [TS]

  know how long stuff takes we're still and still to this day I'm kind of in on [TS]

  that they shipped Iowa 7 as even though as rough as it was in a short time as [TS]

  they did they don't win should not have happened right knowing that it really [TS]

  didn't start until after four stalls ouster you know Layton Layton year 2012 [TS]

  will I think some of the technical underpinnings did but certainly the [TS]

  redesign was yeah and some of the new links of the design had started yet but [TS]

  but as a look we're going to actually do this and we actually need to take this [TS]

  style of design and apply it to everything up the bottom didn't start [TS]

  until the forestall ouster reading of the John Prine John I'm from georgia's [TS]

  all designed software and hardware a challenging putting that what's his name [TS]

  in charge of software engineering [TS]

  yeah yeah factory in charge of the engineering that's incredible time frame [TS]

  and so we think we we we as observers and critics of the company were willing [TS]

  to grant a little bit more grace last year with I was seventh bug innocent [TS]

  till iowa 71 whereas this year it doesn't really seem it seems like an own [TS]

  goal like a foreign force there yes I double greatly sportsman if I go on [TS]

  Foursquare gold goes a little where is to dress like that they didn't quite [TS]

  have to do is much add this as they needed to all at once they didn't have [TS]

  to do third-party keyboards right now [TS]

  right well didn't think I don't personally know I don't think so I'm [TS]

  probably not I just don't think they needed to do it again tonight you do you [TS]

  think that would have been called out I we're still does not support the White [TS]

  Witch yeah I did i do think I do think that there was you know there's this [TS]

  weird I mean the new singles out the bending yeah I do think that you know I [TS]

  firmly believe I said this for years and I think people are so you can kind of [TS]

  tell just chillin alone is not is not just there to to do ads you know that [TS]

  you know it's not like marketing I think it's a bad rap and there might be some [TS]

  companies that do it this way but that you know somebody create the product [TS]

  designs aren't tied the company designs whatever it is and engineers make it [TS]

  becomes real and it's finished and then they handed to marketing and they say [TS]

  now sell it that's not out marketing works at Apple is somehow works at most [TS]

  companies now are getting is just describing what the product is and [TS]

  marketing is part of the design process of making sure that it fills a need and [TS]

  that it's going to sell before it made yeah I mean I didn't get naturally and [TS]

  building yesterday guess I'm gonna need and I mean they were both they're both [TS]

  been in meetings with with bill right hand [TS]

  know it's very much but the design process say this is not working the way [TS]

  it like it to work [TS]

  go make it is this feeling me and he's going two ways it's it's it's part of [TS]

  the process they could be getting and then at the end of the process when it [TS]

  is time to come up with actual slogans and billboards and here is the way we're [TS]

  going to presented on stage at the intro event you're just there just describing [TS]

  what it actually is like and I think that's very very true of almost all [TS]

  Apple products is that the marketing really is pretty apt its well you don't [TS]

  why I think because marketing has been and marketing is horrible word it's it's [TS]

  been stained too often yeah yeah it's not inherently bad words sounded like a [TS]

  geek culture take lie to people [TS]

  no no it's not always said I I had the same conversation this week on Twitter [TS]

  within the old dash and Gina Trapani think up they were the sponsors don't [TS]

  fireball last week and that they think they described as social network [TS]

  analytics on Twitter or even in my right up under fire by said look at Alex's [TS]

  sullied word [TS]

  yet don't think of it that way it's just useful information about you that you [TS]

  would want to know and it's not like douchebags and and you even said that [TS]

  it's like internally like Danny knows they couldn't say it but that they [TS]

  thought it was looking like its social analytics but I swear it's not douchey [TS]

  because it is nothing inherently wrong with the word analytics technically [TS]

  literally by the definition that is what does and that is what you know marketing [TS]

  is you know it is what it says it is but the word is just taken on a bad [TS]

  connotation [TS]

  ya no that's that's good advice and I totally understand that one of the [TS]

  marketing stamps for iOS aid this year able not to silence it goes hand in hand [TS]

  with the fact that the iPhones 60 bigger is it's the shut up about Android right [TS]

  like light leak or or a bad way to put it but it's the here's the things that [TS]

  he hears the reasonable reasons that somebody might choose Android over [TS]

  iPhone here will will give you are answering them right so you like bigger [TS]

  funds totally reasonable ok now we have bigger funds you like third-party [TS]

  keyboards ok now we have third-party keyboards you like sharing information [TS]

  directly between applications and you know doing that you know and that is all [TS]

  the big highlight most of the big highlight features are these sort of [TS]

  things that and read it got into first yea even Windows Phone have taken a bite [TS]

  out of that stuff yeah I think Windows Phone with the sharing between [TS]

  applications was you know I know and I had some states to first but I thought [TS]

  the way that Windows did it was was more of a highly enough of us closer [TS]

  yeah it was a lot more like Apple's services in Pakistan you know it's just [TS]

  taken Apple you know all these decades to get back around to services from you [TS]

  know why so for sell stunt on the idea of services in ways I was no I didn't [TS]

  know that you know you did not show yet [TS]

  well not out it was because every single app that exposes service as a West End [TS]

  owes you just haven't looked at completely unwieldy Services menu oh [TS]

  yeah well that's a great Paul ICIC services they do that literally because [TS]

  I mean they have a password server and I like it I was works incredibly similarly [TS]

  to Mac toes it you know how to implement services it's really pretty basic it's [TS]

  like something goes on a pasteboard not not the one you copy and paste into but [TS]

  separate one another app can then is invoked and pull something up that pace [TS]

  but it does something with it and paste it becomes a backup to the baseboard and [TS]

  then the app that you called it from just takes it from the peace with it is [TS]

  it you can do copy and paste you can do services [TS]

  yeah and it's just a very basic level specification of here's the datatype [TS]

  here's the standard data types for services and here are the ones I'm [TS]

  interested in Stinson me as a service I might only be interested in text yet so [TS]

  don't even bother with me if the selection is something else it's dead [TS]

  simple and bright idea good well it didn't want to put it into iowa's [TS]

  because did the model the interaction would just eventually become cumbersome [TS]

  and you can see it you can see it on Pakistan if you have enough third-party [TS]

  absence and nobody looks at you and I do and maybe a few listeners but it's a [TS]

  power user future [TS]

  definitely [TS]

  always been and will always be into unless they've totally revolutionized [TS]

  with extensions yeah I mean some Mayakkam imagine if you know when you [TS]

  ship desperate for the Mac I imagine you think you'll be surprised at how few [TS]

  people use it but he kinda needs to be there to use the people who do use it [TS]

  will definitely want yes and you can go into it so we're is a you'd never think [TS]

  to look there you have to go to System Preferences on the Mac System [TS]

  Preferences keyboards shortcuts services and there you get a list of all of the [TS]

  services from all yes you have installed and then you can turn off the ones you [TS]

  don't use and it's so who is everything that you would go there to manage the [TS]

  system services go keyboard shortcuts services just such a weird hit and it is [TS]

  a giant list yeah and it's also a mess too because the service can specify a [TS]

  keyboard shortcut but there's nothing that stops to services and there's no [TS]

  good no good way to resolve that I don't you know what the rules are like one of [TS]

  them somehow when I don't know if it's the first one to claim it over the last [TS]

  12 climate but one of them wins but it's not not because you the user you can [TS]

  order the first or last one so it's right now the last one that the system [TS]

  notice it but completely arbitrary anyway so long story short it yet the [TS]

  idea of services could get next in iowa's and I thought you meant when i [TS]

  when i when i tooth sucked before inside out I thought you meant the idea of [TS]

  extensions for known [TS]

  you're saying certain literally literally service that makes sense and [TS]

  that's forced all that is best I think says he and and I imagine this purple me [TS]

  to show you were gonna have to edit some stuff gets it probably shouldn't get it [TS]

  publicly I i think that that was forced thailand is best because he's an old [TS]

  next guy and services were kind of a feather in the cap for the Nexus time [TS]

  for him to be like this we really don't want to go down this rabbit hole and I [TS]

  think he was he had his eyes open enough to see that it didn't play out well and [TS]

  I think part of the reason it didn't play out as well america has 10 as next [TS]

  is that next never really had a lot of developers they had like some and send [TS]

  the ones that they had even a third party ones where amazing right on the [TS]

  group is still around [TS]

  group started you know you know fantastic company but there weren't [TS]

  people with next computers are never complaining about how long their [TS]

  services manuals because all the apps word providing all these services have [TS]

  that many at that is exactly what it was like five acts out there doing what is [TS]

  right and i phone and say I'm gonna be schooling for like three weeks trying to [TS]

  figure out where the services they want right like I when I upgraded to I was a [TS]

  tad took the time and deleted all the apps that I had used in I figured if I [TS]

  have been using the more than just delete it really everyone about just go [TS]

  to the App Store and get back we shined [TS]

  and I still have so many you know and their summers I haven't used it but [TS]

  anyway still have so many apps I can't even imagine [TS]

  yeah well I mean I imagine you just install apps to try them yeah I did the [TS]

  same thing and it's a lot easier to get around the net and literally have great [TS]

  chemistry so I dunno it's every now and then somebody notices to see what the [TS]

  you I was just in case you get drunk and now I've got a tender to use its just [TS]

  awkward there's a good period records do there is actually fun that I can't [TS]

  explain to anybody except it like somebody told me was a good app to to [TS]

  just see this kind of particular interaction tried it yet i was just one [TS]

  of the spots in a pair as an interesting interaction will buy the app just to see [TS]

  a good oh you should see the way that you can pre-order lists in this app you [TS]

  don't have to hit it first you diss weird and yeah like what a long press in [TS]

  the UV order but like what the app actually does something like might be [TS]

  managing your diabetes and I have diabetes [TS]

  anyway this take a break out thank our second sponsored grinder no naka no [TS]

  grudges officers you know yeah but it's not our sponsor it is back please I [TS]

  could transit back place I have a great story to tell this is amazing this is [TS]

  we're recording on Tuesday October 7th [TS]

  last night Monday October 6th at my main Mac families on real loud at my desk my [TS]

  wife is going to require podcast and you know it and I checked the uptime 14 days [TS]

  as a long time to run it just restarts I restarted the Mac and to let it sit at [TS]

  login screen and just shut up and let the fans go up so when she record record [TS]

  to my desk and recorded a podcast just the tip classes good podcast PK I came [TS]

  back after watching baseball game when I get my computer restarting it back on [TS]

  and it wouldn't restart who look and I like it the power button held the power [TS]

  button shut down and held the power button again I heard a little something [TS]

  starting up and light came on but it never even got to the startup chime [TS]

  which is fine if you don't hear that bomb when you get past the post that's [TS]

  very you can you should bet money that you have a logic board problem and i [TS]

  thought i know i know im backed up so is the worst case scenario gotta do is just [TS]

  wait and restore from backup haven't lost anything I'm backed up a couple [TS]

  ways but one of the ways I'm backed up and i know im backed up is through back [TS]

  place which is online backup that runs in the background and it's actually the [TS]

  one who gives me the most peace of mind because it's the one that I don't have [TS]

  to do anything about and I literally this is what I didn't try to resuscitate [TS]

  him it was late at night about this morning I just went to a different [TS]

  machine could have been my iPhone could have been another Mac doesn't he just [TS]

  log in the back please I logged into my back by his account and just looked and [TS]

  it said that I was backed up as of like 8 p.m. last night as I was backed by his [TS]

  backup backup everything on your Mac everything [TS]

  view of external hard drives backs this up to what's going on space unlimited [TS]

  you just pay $5 a month and everything on your Mac get backed up what's the [TS]

  catch there is no catch [TS]

  if there's technically it's that the $5 a month which is incredibly low as per [TS]

  Mac but that perm a cost is everything on the Mac including the external drive [TS]

  I if I didn't have back ways I have no idea [TS]

  night trying to restore resuscitate the drive opening the case trying to take [TS]

  the SSDI put it in it [TS]

  case and putting it in today up on doing stuff like that all I do is log in my [TS]

  back was account and you have is backed up nothing to worry about [TS]

  can't say enough what a great feeling that is you just hurry to sign up go to [TS]

  back plays dot com slash daring fireball back please be lazy dot com slash their [TS]

  environment they know you come from the show that way you get a 14 day free [TS]

  trial no credit card up front to do that install their software on your Mac setup [TS]

  an account used to 14 days it might take awhile for all of your stuff to get up [TS]

  upstream through the cloud do that the first 14 days see how it works [TS]

  see how once you have it set up it just runs you don't do anything you have to [TS]

  remember one today to hit the back plz bunten doin upload it is uploads as it's [TS]

  easy you need to incremental can't say enough I mean I am testimony to it [TS]

  broken Mac nothing lost can't couldn't be easier so my thanks to back please go [TS]

  get him don't be a dummy who's not backed up that's great I mean just [TS]

  honestly we had to deliver show ya glad it worked out [TS]

  the best thing about remember anything to do it [TS]

  yeah I know I don't trust myself either which is a testament to back this if I [TS]

  intentionally have to think of a backhand but gonna screwed up sometime [TS]

  yeah it's not really back up I think somebody argued with me once I agree [TS]

  with it if your backup system is something you have to invoke manually [TS]

  that's not a backup system it's you it's you know it's something you've got [TS]

  clones of your data it worth doing I use super duper late that the third part you [TS]

  know external drives [TS]

  it's it's not really backed up backed up is when something it's unexpectedly and [TS]

  I go and check and I'm backed up from the last moment I remember sitting at my [TS]

  computer that that's well I think you know i think thats what time machine [TS]

  tries to address and I think that that swayed back brace dozen states yea yea [TS]

  time she's great solution to I say dumont do you know no way you can be [TS]

  more backed up yeah you can be to back to where you can be but not in terms of [TS]

  your computer [TS]

  no no time machine for the best things that Apple did I still think that they [TS]

  need to I would love to see Apple do something improve the means of using [TS]

  Time Machine from like I know they've got the time machine base station but I [TS]

  still feel like there could be there could be a better experience and he did [TS]

  you notice that they got rid of the [TS]

  can talk about this anyway they got rid of this chair backfield account [TS]

  yeah yeah good call now but my understanding is the starfield was [TS]

  literally joke it was my understanding is that it was matters basically making [TS]

  a joke and yes it was definitely madness I don't want to pay get to see ya that's [TS]

  hillary's uses goofiest thing I can imagine yeah let's make that it's like [TS]

  an interesting way of of starting late will what's the most outlandish what I [TS]

  what's the most button up here we could do it well he Time Machine his doctor [TS]

  who write well you could do like both extremes you could say what's the most [TS]

  straight-laced conservative but no way we could do it and say well it would [TS]

  look like the Finder accepted maybe it's his list view you know just looked just [TS]

  like to find a different color oK what's the most outlandish way we can do it [TS]

  yeah you're like seeing the doctor who like the opening doctor and we will do [TS]

  it in 3d and that they were like let's go ahead and do we were talking about [TS]

  forestall before and somebody email me and again you can't you know it's small [TS]

  data samples because it's only been two major releases sent for stolen but [TS]

  somebody email me I didn't recognize the name its not somebody who knows but it [TS]

  was clearly somebody who had some who used to work at Apple you know some [TS]

  engineer just said hey did you know but doesn't work there anymore [TS]

  and is more or less said you know this could be you know the downside of losing [TS]

  Scott Forstall because where everyone to say about Scott Forstall Scott Forstall [TS]

  knew how to manage large cuts software projects I don't know how much from the [TS]

  outside now this is somebody was only inside you said you know this just seems [TS]

  a lot like like Scott was better in knowing that we should we should kill a [TS]

  couple of these features because we're not we're not going to ship on time [TS]

  otherwise you know I don't know thought that was an interesting observation [TS]

  maybe that's not true and maybe there's you know people from Apple who are [TS]

  listening to the show right now shaking their heads thinking my god that Scott [TS]

  was the worst that I don't know I'm just saying thats what one person wrote it [TS]

  but so far too for two major IOS releases post forestall an again does [TS]

  leaving aside the design style of them which clearly opposition days his [TS]

  direction but in terms of how good were they when they shipped in September [TS]

  they're not the not so good quality wise and I think in both cases it was because [TS]

  of my I think it's too much to do any year I I honestly think it's too much [TS]

  doing here to be honest I've heard nothing bad about working under cut it [TS]

  to regular Apple they you know it was demanding of course I mean things are [TS]

  you reporting to Scott Forstall year you know you're up there and you did so high [TS]

  pressure job for sure but in general it's unclear to me why did break with [TS]

  the company happened maybe it's time to change management change it up a little [TS]

  bit [TS]

  it's unfortunate that since then we've had a couple of Phyllis releases iOS [TS]

  releases did maybe you seem a little bit undercooked for lack of a better word [TS]

  yeah and I i know you actually here to being locked to the hardware but I get [TS]

  to being overzealous with adding features because I mean two things right [TS]

  thank you can you can you hit the date or you can do less stuff and an error on [TS]

  this site certainly in this case just do this stuff you can change her and they [TS]

  get to combine that with the new and then again from product marketing [TS]

  perspective I totally understand it but from this style of were gonna tell you [TS]

  all about it at WWDC in June and I feel like they're a feel like they're painted [TS]

  in a corner that what they've promised in June has to ship in September [TS]

  yes yeah yeah and there's a couple of things that don't but that will be [TS]

  coming in October because they really need yosemite for them and it's the same [TS]

  pointed this out before it's like i cud keychain was last year my car key chain [TS]

  was a WBC unveiled preacher September I was seven came out and even it was in [TS]

  the betas throughout the summer it wasn't in the final version and then it [TS]

  was there in October in a point release when Pakistan maverick ship because it [TS]

  somehow needed all of that you know and again it goes back to the gears needing [TS]

  all the all the gears to be there for this thing to work and as a set of the [TS]

  topless show I think the interconnectedness is an end with 12 and [TS]

  imaginary Apple TV sometime next year [TS]

  yeah this is just it's it's it's going to keep getting more complicated like [TS]

  these [TS]

  the interoperability is going to end up being difficult thing to address in a [TS]

  lockstep manner and you need a lockstep but we don't need one but ideally you [TS]

  would have a lock step at least for all of these features may be trying to play [TS]

  devil's advocate maybe take a more optimistic view maybe though Iowa State [TS]

  was sort of like Iowa seven where I was seven was this we have to do all these [TS]

  visuals it wants to redo the visuals and all these animations and everything all [TS]

  the pixels they're thrown on screen across the system at once in nine months [TS]

  and so of course it was going to be rocky and maybe I will say is the same [TS]

  way in terms of laying the foundation for all of this in her apt communicate [TS]

  the extensions [TS]

  well in her and even further in her apt and interred device communication and [TS]

  that maybe you know things can slow down in terms of how much cabins year over [TS]

  year and that I S nine in September by nature bite off less because it's going [TS]

  to be about making these things work better and more seamlessly rather than [TS]

  let starting them from scratch [TS]

  yeah I agree which you know and then again I don't want it [TS]

  attended I would say to the extension anything bad misconceived or fully done [TS]

  she's more rough edges in the USDA you would expect and I think that's because [TS]

  of the heat read more in a lot less time than they could be achieved with [TS]

  certainty yeah and I don't think it's in any way [TS]

  refuting the idea that Apple is internally more collaborative them [TS]

  before or that that they could solve this that they're still understaffed or [TS]

  something like that I think it's it's simply the nature of you know it's it's [TS]

  the myth the commandant you can't exactly [TS]

  cannot you really you can actually like almost prove it that you cannot ship [TS]

  software high-quality software faster by throwing people you know and I do think [TS]

  I think the nature of the features themselves shows that they're the [TS]

  company is more collaborative but that doesn't mean that you can get it makes [TS]

  it possible to do this like if they weren't if they were as silent as they [TS]

  used to be [TS]

  there's these features wouldn't even exist so do you know who argues against [TS]

  this notion is name is John Gruber from back in 2003 this is that this came down [TS]

  to it and you know this is a good article I disagree with a lot of it as [TS]

  it did at the time [TS]

  think we don't even know if you knew each other but you know I'd read you [TS]

  because you're smart and district discrete arguments but this is the good [TS]

  the bad and the ugly which is classic dick move he left it was when I V left [TS]

  in [TS]

  like yeah yes [TS]

  relates to lay with a replacement for the sofa again but you have it you have [TS]

  a couple of this is really actually bother to rate like a million words you [TS]

  had invented an essential aspect of Mac OS 10 successes it didn't merely ship [TS]

  ship with discernible momentum it got better both in terms of performance and [TS]

  usability steadily and under regular schedule first public pays it and then [TS]

  each of these 10 22 you go on to say I feel like a jackass quoting you do [TS]

  yourself but that's right it's it's my 11 year old self so it's a whole [TS]

  different person this one major update peruse schedule is an essential aspect [TS]

  of Pakistan success the general perception is macros 10 is just good but [TS]

  that is getting its good and getting better at perception seems to be held I [TS]

  just buy the Mac I think it's an incredibly astute point you know the [TS]

  rest of the article I can argue with you about life but you you specifically call [TS]

  up the yearly schedule I'll say this I don't think you're in disagreement and [TS]

  and that was it was the first few years of Pakistan it was definitely very [TS]

  annual I mean the first release was six months to 10 one came out really needed [TS]

  to talk to people who worked on it so [TS]

  forestry always gentiles was it ten 110 113 they just gave it away any actor [TS]

  dealer was an apology they wouldn't burn you a DVD just give it to you and that [TS]

  was after that though they were still selling them for $129 each you exactly [TS]

  how old I remember being shocked when they started dropping the price of the [TS]

  major [TS]

  229 books compared to Windows seems reasonable to me but now it seems like [TS]

  oh my god that would be helpful [TS]

  yeah no one would upgrade [TS]

  but I see the thing is though is that you like in those 10 12 10 3 10 4 I [TS]

  forget when it slowed down and dropped off the annual cycle maybe around 10 5 [TS]

  but they were it was it was two steps forward one step back it was just two [TS]

  steps forward year after year after year and there wasn't any kind of but I mean [TS]

  there might have been niggling details here and there if we went back and read [TS]

  Syracuse's you know about what it was but they were nichols' there wasn't like [TS]

  major fundamental things that were here here's a big new thing intend to it [TS]

  didn't ship like totally not working it shipped at work and it was like oh this [TS]

  is about spot later some weird little something that was broken in the you [TS]

  know the first you know the GSM version and needed a bug fixes are always bugs [TS]

  and and Syracuse it yet to find a garbage but nobody nobody was arguing [TS]

  though that nobody was arguing in the 10 12 10 to 10 3 10 4 that Apple is trying [TS]

  to do too much year-over-year [TS]

  I think it was more like what I said in the article that while this they're [TS]

  really on fire and they're just improving well you did at the start of [TS]

  the article and I'm trying to find it now because they don't misquote you but [TS]

  you you said something about copious suffered touching the announcement also [TS]

  indicates that the change was more than two jeweler and that certainly will be [TS]

  taking on responsibility for day-to-day management of the company's copious [TS]

  suffered projects which at the time did not raise an eyebrow no yes completely [TS]

  correction now that's kind of funny just thinking about [TS]

  have the scope and scale has changed this is great pizza guy employer [TS]

  everybody go read this piece I it was a different time for sure and it was that [TS]

  peace was also I remember when I wrote it it was trying to catch up from the [TS]

  fact that during fireball didn't start until 2002 and a lot of the next the new [TS]

  guys from next versus old guys from the Mac side friction was mostly played out [TS]

  around 99 2000 2001 I had during fireball to do it a little bit you know [TS]

  like reading this you should be like really are we still doing this right but [TS]

  I don't disagree with understand a lot of the prospective I still like to in [TS]

  hindsight you know in and say that it all worked out for the better but I've [TS]

  said this before that I still like to think that the Apple next combination [TS]

  and some people call it a reverse takeover and yeah yeah but at an [TS]

  executive level it did happen its terms of Steve and his people he picked it [TS]

  directly report to him it was mostly but it's still early it's a marriage in the [TS]

  next people into the shower was already there and shoulders state johnnie I was [TS]

  there and steve has said you can depict him out of the way he went in [TS]

  Steve went into the industrial design group having looked at Apple shipping [TS]

  products and drawn an estimation of the quality of their industrial design it [TS]

  I'm going after going here in fire all of these people walked in [TS]

  and met Johnny I've and saw the stuff that johnnie I've had wanted to ship it [TS]

  was like holy shit is a goldmine these guys are geniuses [TS]

  you know you know to be harder to computers at the time Apple is still [TS]

  shipping some beautiful stuff go look at it be G 32 66048 it had that little [TS]

  cyber thing in the way that the panel came up with that little green flash the [TS]

  policy could access the interior I have anybody making PCs I had a PowerMac 9600 [TS]

  kind of you get with the chip was in that US 60 for PowerPC add them access I [TS]

  think it was before there were rumors of an upcoming 620 that I don't think they [TS]

  ever shipped and they did they went to the G three instead I 2604 [TS]

  but I had that same thing though where you can access the case internals [TS]

  without like tools and stuff like that you could take it apart not needing a [TS]

  screwdriver i mean and yeah and everything was super neatly organized [TS]

  inside it was like a library and it's a here's where you'd put crammed in here [TS]

  as we do so if you wanted to add RAM or change the Rams take out your you know [TS]

  one gigabyte [TS]

  your one megabyte Sams members and replace them with two gigabytes or [TS]

  whatever it was easy and clips were nice it didn't feel like you're breaking [TS]

  everything was great especially at come from history of building mount PCs which [TS]

  was awful time but you know neediest cases cannot be and yes this was the [TS]

  exact opposite I remember my friends tracks are built from scratch PC and the [TS]

  day they ran it literally with the top open they just left it unscrewed and [TS]

  aides say that position [TS]

  a box fan like an actual like the thing to put your window they put a box next [TS]

  to it I had just to one up you saw a bill to second PC so that I could play [TS]

  like network games and I didn't buy a case literally had a motherboard the [TS]

  mother the mother sitting atop I swear to God and it sounds like I'm just gonna [TS]

  make this up it was sitting atop an old issue macworld magazine long behind [TS]

  there there is a motherboard with a VGA card like literally carried a networking [TS]

  and I think that was it it was just too much and you know where it was in my [TS]

  closet in my apartment and my friends are going there and likes it on a milk [TS]

  crate and we'd play Age of Empires won the best three hundred bucks at spent [TS]

  ac3 be 00 before they put I don't even that didn't happen but anyway I was [TS]

  going is that whatever their pickups were you know the friction years of [TS]

  friction between two different cultures to I like to think of it as a [TS]

  reunification that the the next side jobs created clearly had Apple DNA I [TS]

  couldn't agree more just you know but then they were separated by years like [TS]

  you know again at the draught 22 dramatic an analogy but like East [TS]

  Germany and West Germany but then when the wall came down [TS]

  yeah it was rough for a couple of years because it's been so different on the [TS]

  two sides but germans know so I told a great so I came to this from the next [TS]

  point of view if not actually having been super invested in next and I would [TS]

  read you in syracuse and disagreements on the technical issues but you know I'm [TS]

  right I think we share the same philosophy in a lot of ways I think [TS]

  we're all pretty much of one minded by this point right yeah I get insatiable [TS]

  desire for nice things right and white what you would tribute to being a nice [TS]

  thing i think is changed over the years [TS]

  yeah but ultimately it's the same like you say it like a DNA right and you know [TS]

  once the initial frictions off but I really years though I had very strong [TS]

  opinions on issues and almost always erred on the side of the traditional Mac [TS]

  our side of the argument ya name extensions versus you know typing [TS]

  creator codes stuff like that [TS]

  yeah you got it so often Baghdad now right I totally right path the stupid [TS]

  addressing files by path instead of file I D Nicklas ok with 20 year old argument [TS]

  at this point to get it right but ultimately if people have done what you [TS]

  wanted them to do [TS]

  did we start no I don't think so I think I would have gotten to where we are now [TS]

  anyway it's just where you are now well I don't know what did I say that I am [TS]

  NOT click this is a cool looking at the website of it and this is really unfair [TS]

  I don't have anything from this period that you can call me on to being stupid [TS]

  and I'm sure ways and I don't think this is stupid but you literally very I'm not [TS]

  claiming that new karen was perfect in every way and not in any position to [TS]

  make such judgments that's great but by all accounts the idea of using new [TS]

  kernel method mock was never even considered by two billion no matter what [TS]

  eventually which the act because swapping on a new kernel remember was [TS]

  designed from the outset as a colonel to power future our PC based Mac operating [TS]

  systems [TS]

  wasn't [TS]

  superior peres management continuing weak spot in Mac OS it was at the time [TS]

  you were completely correct now very true they saw so again they solved it in [TS]

  a different way you know you could say that right but I don't know that [TS]

  it was wrong and just saying but it was true that the commentary was different [TS]

  because there was a cultural divide the kernel stuff is probably but no I mean I [TS]

  know but another part to those i'd i'd [TS]

  wasn't I didn't know enough about how the next system and I was thinking about [TS]

  it more from like the open perspective maybe that was marked you but I thought [TS]

  that was a little bit more abstract where it ran on Solaris it was marking [TS]

  yeah it could well but that because like that open step ran on Solaris I thought [TS]

  that Coco that the color you know and I that's what I thought that more or less [TS]

  was I was thinking was that why couldn't they take Coco and do new kernel what [TS]

  they did to get it running maybe that was a terrible idea maybe that's you [TS]

  know that's what I don't know why I honestly dunno I i think you can always [TS]

  probably right because they even had even had the cocoa later on when does [TS]

  that mean that was they were missing and they've they actually thought maybe [TS]

  they'd still ship that at first they were going to ship the yellow box from [TS]

  India I mean did the open simply the cocoa later today can ship on a bunch of [TS]

  different sizes and to be honest probably will in the future [TS]

  eventually gonna swap out the underpinnings I i shouldn't be passing [TS]

  judge and again from a computer so you literally say I am NOT in any position [TS]

  to make judgments and you said it back in 2002 really not trying to be a dick [TS]

  about it but it's worth it discussion right but there was it was a I was [TS]

  expressing the frustrations from a lot of people in New within apple who were [TS]

  there you know from the Mac side who knew that maybe that's just one example [TS]

  but that there was a lot of Mac stuff that wasn't even considered you know [TS]

  just because it was you know if it wasn't for the next item [TS]

  yes and the only stuff that did survive the stuff that Nexon even have Quicktime [TS]

  famously survived not because of QuickTime had a great AP I could come at [TS]

  a horrible epi talk to anybody who have a program tonight and they get the [TS]

  shakes but it was the fact that next in have anything they didn't have a [TS]

  multimedia yeah they you know they needed you know QuickTime gave them [TS]

  something they didn't even have a chance to be pleased with the court's yeah when [TS]

  I was a big win because quick draw was much better if they did they did it [TS]

  right right that was just you know that that was when I don't remember being [TS]

  contentious though there might have been some of the best move should they did [TS]

  with 10 for sure right and that you know the quick dry having been designed to do [TS]

  technically amazing things in 1984 1985 computers was not did not make it [TS]

  relevant going into the future [TS]

  yeah so yes of course the composite in Windows 7 was where it's time [TS]

  yeah and at the time and was frustrated with Syracuse's we'd use because he [TS]

  complain about resizing windows of every size with lifelike images to get the [TS]

  classic Mac OS outline thing and I was a because it's cool and awesome but he's [TS]

  right [TS]

  come to see the product preview of it we're starting at five frames per second [TS]

  is not tenable I remember at the time I was the years that I was working at [TS]

  bare-bones software we get new developer basis of 10 and install them on you know [TS]

  really good hardware and it wasn't like we were installing it on TV stuff [TS]

  I remember watching Jim Korea is now a group with all the gym had just opened a [TS]

  window and first he would grab the corner and resize it really really fast [TS]

  and his eyes would start to roll that they need to grab the window title bar [TS]

  and shake it over the screen as fast as he could and you'd see all of this [TS]

  sharing I mean it was just no way they could keep up with you know James hand [TS]

  just going side to side to side walk so it was so back you know what I think is [TS]

  so interesting in between 2000 2001 Apple which went for it looks beautiful [TS]

  even if it is painfully slow to 2006 Apple making the first version of iOS [TS]

  which looked beautiful but never got was that it was a subtle shift in priorities [TS]

  where i disagree with but here's the example that example as you load during [TS]

  fireball Mobile Safari on the original iPhone running iOS one point out and you [TS]

  start to scroll what do you see you saw that check report number the [TS]

  checkerboard [TS]

  so the scrolling always kept up with your finger but they would just dump the [TS]

  contents show a checkerboard if they needed to do so it always felt like it [TS]

  was perfectly responsive with your finger so you know but it wasn't showing [TS]

  you the content in high fidelity and in fact with the checkerboard it would just [TS]

  drop it completely and I thought you know I thought that was one of the most [TS]

  genius decisions and all of the original I S one point out was that checkerboard [TS]

  of course you know clearly the ultimate answer was to just keep up with your [TS]

  finger with the actual content which is what all iPhones do today but in terms [TS]

  of what they should do then the Mac OS 10 1.0 solution would have been for the [TS]

  IRS to do really jittery shiri you know sharing [TS]

  scrolling scrolling get real slow [TS]

  page and get what they came up with in 2007 was delightful it actually even [TS]

  know it was disappointing and slightly in first at all can keep the whole page [TS]

  there but the fact that it no matter what you did what you saw those [TS]

  checkerboard moving up in the screen kept pace with your finger was to me [TS]

  delightful so I was initially disagreed but yet the check the instant [TS]

  interaction is always better what I liked about Pakistan at the time when it [TS]

  was released was that he was betting on the future like harder than it really [TS]

  should've said the time when it ships the product I liked because I was more [TS]

  on the dirty side of the scale I could see what they were doing but it wasn't a [TS]

  great product [TS]

  well and it's harder to bet on the future when you're behind but they did a [TS]

  bad heart and you know my viewers lead with Vista right comically late game at [TS]

  that point [TS]

  well and that and and at the same time that ten worshiping morale at roughly [TS]

  2000 2001 2001 was actually win xp shipped yeah but Microsoft [TS]

  2000 2001 2001 was actually win xp shipped yeah but Microsoft [TS]

  shipping what would go on to be the single most popular version of Windows [TS]

  that ever ship and I think it's quite possible maybe it never will ship they [TS]

  may be in some if not a decline like they've hit a permanent plateau [TS]

  never be as popular no new version of Windows will ever be as popular as XP [TS]

  was defined and P [TS]

  I found a bit of a partner at an unusual but that you know I think it's too I [TS]

  think it's a little depressing you like better you know best thing that you know [TS]

  clearly the one of the best things that happened to the iOS is Android getting [TS]

  its design act together you know whether you know well I mean that much of it is [TS]

  God candidate can person I just like to see how everybody doing awesome stuff [TS]

  all the time and it's happening right right it would be better it's just [TS]

  better in general if other people are doing awesome stuff and it's also yeah [TS]

  but you know and then from a more objective point of view it does keep [TS]

  everybody on their toes so yes you know just going back to the main thesis of [TS]

  this episode we're talking about is Apple doing too much per year maybe it's [TS]

  better if they do a little bit too much per year then do a little too little too [TS]

  per year right as a general rule of thumb if they have to air on one side or [TS]

  the other and because humans are imperfect and because software planning [TS]

  is imperfect and software management is imperfect [TS]

  and suffer engineering is certainly imperfect you're never gonna get it [TS]

  exactly right so if you have to take a guess whether you're gonna go a little [TS]

  too fast or too little to slow it might be better to go too fast and you know [TS]

  well and so i i agree with you but I'm gonna have to play devil's advocate to [TS]

  the sake of conversation just before the show you sent me the link I was 8 [TS]

  adoptions has stagnated compared to 2007 adoption if it keeps happening it is [TS]

  that's a bad sign I think this I think it's a really bad sign so these are [TS]

  Apple's own numbers right which is really interesting to say damning but [TS]

  right now [TS]

  Apple has a web page on the App Store support page for developers and it tells [TS]

  you that like once a week snapshot I think it's once a week as we record [TS]

  today on October 7 the data comes from October 5th two days ago and it just [TS]

  tells you [TS]

  devices that have come to the App Store in the last week or something like that [TS]

  here is what OS they were running and as you know twenty days after the release [TS]

  of iOS aid it's about a 50 50 split Iowa seven forty-seven percent I was 8 47 [TS]

  percent and earlier versions the remaining 6% the reason that's bad [TS]

  that's a means to be fair that's better than most other people in the industry [TS]

  yeah but a year ago I was seven twenty days after it came out was it seventy [TS]

  percent which is not it's not like that's well within you know outside [TS]

  statistical variation [TS]

  you know that's a big difference that's what is a 24 percent and you know there [TS]

  might be almost certainly it's multi-faceted the reasons why but I [TS]

  don't think it's outlandish at all I think it's almost certain that part of [TS]

  it is that people out there feel like they've either had bad experiences in [TS]

  the past when they've ok'd the ok a software update is available you wanna [TS]

  install it and now they're more likely to hit cancel then they were otherwise [TS]

  or is just what they're hearing from people about Iowa see how don't do it [TS]

  you know I as i said i told Adrian not acted and she'd already heard people at [TS]

  work that's a bad sign [TS]

  you can't do that yeah like last week's episode of the show at Ben Thompson eyes [TS]

  I just set off and I said you know that's the long-term if they keep having [TS]

  a West releases like that it seems inevitable that that it's going to slow [TS]

  the pace of adoption which is not in Apple's interests and it's not in the [TS]

  interest of third-party developers like it's been a very virtuous circle for [TS]

  Apple because their newest features are in front of more people and it you know [TS]

  if it works well it makes people feel like hey my my year old iPhone is even [TS]

  better than it was a year ago because I've got these cool new features and [TS]

  it's good for developers because when newt new developer technologies come out [TS]

  they can adopt them quicker than you know right away you know like the new [TS]

  layout stuff and adaptive size stuff for new screens you can do that even though [TS]

  at Iowa State only because Apple promises that you know a majority of [TS]

  customers can be running I was a very soon [TS]

  well I think like it's almost absurd that you can [TS]

  great lands to look at Apple is to look at the priorities right which is at this [TS]

  point pretty basic its Apple their customers and then third-party [TS]

  developers I think that you know shipping buggy last updates initially [TS]

  hurt them customers and that's probably the most trade ya and their customers [TS]

  won't update and that's going to trickle down into throughput developers and then [TS]

  adds did you know given the cycle of life that the feedback loop if [TS]

  third-party developers can't count on customers have the OS updated they can't [TS]

  deduct the good stuff to it [TS]

  apple has released him to do it's it's a horrible cycle yeah as as the developer [TS]

  that sucks did you know maybe I can't count on these new things but I think I [TS]

  I think Apple is should probably save their customer service like [TS]

  understand the priority system I think they've failed their own customers in in [TS]

  a certain way to tell ya it might be you can't overestimate or underestimate her [TS]

  know which ever whatever way works how much damage you can do to the trust [TS]

  between the typical user of which there are now hundreds of millions of them so [TS]

  they're not technical people at all they're just people who want to have i [TS]

  phone that works on ipad [TS]

  and the trust that they have an apple and that dialog box comes up and says a [TS]

  new version of iOS device quickly tap here to install I think once you said no [TS]

  one's why would you not say no again the second time you have to have been [TS]

  trained to everything is great and then something but you know there's a little [TS]

  boy who cried wolf angle to it and there's a bad metaphor because that the [TS]

  kidnapped allegory is a liar and apples and doing this on purpose they don't [TS]

  like everybody that Apple which is that all these features worked perfectly done [TS]

  to show up every time the caicos we'll just do it gets get the kids better [TS]

  solutions to this problem you know what you're gonna work inside for now anyway [TS]

  so it can but but the the town's people's reaction though human nature [TS]

  you know where if you feel like you've been burned a couple times and you feel [TS]

  like you know my iPad got kind of slow and I thought I was seven is gonna make [TS]

  you less likely to do it and I know that that that whole aspect gets you know the [TS]

  Jackass way to overstated is that whole thing a game of last year with it was [TS]

  planned obsolescence and well here's when I think now we're seeing why it's [TS]

  so infuriating writes the last year there is there is there were people like [TS]

  in the new york times every couple people should be in that hey I upgraded [TS]

  my old iPhone it's a year older two years old and now it's slower Apple did [TS]

  that on purpose because I want me to buy a new iPhone and I thought that was so [TS]

  stupid because it's so little respect for people like if Apple had done that [TS]

  on purpose isn't it a natural response for somebody who says hey I had I paid a [TS]

  lot of money from my iPhone I did what Apple told me to do and I got slower [TS]

  maybe I should try simpson fans something to the murky kind of thing for [TS]

  me personally but I see the point I do [TS]

  that's that's a perfectly rational reaction to it you know that's what I [TS]

  had been the case yes but take the politics out of the fact that Android vs [TS]

  iOS is sort of a political thing where we we've got we've got tribes you know [TS]

  that you and I are part of this you know Mac Mini Mac iOS yeah I like to pretend [TS]

  that I'm not but could not take it to something where there's there's less [TS]

  really you know religious style for and I we try I do hope that I do to that [TS]

  kind of try to stay above that and keep my mind open as best I can but to be [TS]

  honest it you know and it's there in the people who listen to our show and just [TS]

  I'm just saying no that like if you buy two brands are really close intertwined [TS]

  in their histories and interpretations Honda and Toyota right that they're both [TS]

  Japanese and they both have this reputation for quality and for [TS]

  durability that you know you can buy a Honda or Toyota and it's a very good [TS]

  likelihood its gonna last for over a hundred thousand miles and you know you [TS]

  but Toyota's to two or three cars in a row and then you buy a toyota and you [TS]

  get a bad one and it's you know has transmission problems two years and [TS]

  doesn't that make you more likely to think a maybe I should try harder next [TS]

  time right doesn't it make you think about Toyota did this on purpose cuz I [TS]

  want me to buy another car right that's just it's counter to the brand and the [TS]

  Apple brand is we make good stuff and it lasts at least into terms of technology [TS]

  world last long and anything that anything that goes against that is off [TS]

  the brand and off the message and off the relationship that they want to have [TS]

  with their customers so I really think that that whole idea that that that its [TS]

  planned obsolescence that new versions of iOS run poorly or less even less than [TS]

  ideal leon older [TS]

  devices such as wrong because I know from the people I know that Apple people [TS]

  I know that Apple would quit if they were told they make this runs low on an [TS]

  iPhone really I mean that sincerely with a friend at WWDC you will decide about [TS]

  said literally I would quit if my boss came in to me and told me to do [TS]

  something like that I would just immediately would pack up my stuff [TS]

  because I get a job somewhere else am I gonna do you know why would I do [TS]

  something like that you know even though it's not what you said but I would have [TS]

  no respect for myself but Apple AAPL if anything Apple is Dec [TS]

  attention yeah you start being like you know what cripple a phone in a year ago [TS]

  judge me on either can get elsewhere like its fine these people can get a job [TS]

  where they want the people I know an apple or the opposite where they would [TS]

  take pride in the fact that you know I worked on you know I don't know I worked [TS]

  on scrolling yeah and it still buttery smooth iPhone for us I totally agree [TS]

  with you right and that's like a feather in my cap that it's you know 100% [TS]

  somebody is trying to make things right and i think that this thing to go back [TS]

  to this you know that the upgrade pace is apparently significantly off year [TS]

  over year is to me a guy said the canary in the coal mine that those sort of hey [TS]

  if you keep doing this it's gonna affected that it's come to fruition that [TS]

  we've got a dead canary here [TS]

  I feel like it to sprint to that is destroyed like a little bit off in the [TS]

  soma stumbling at this point right and instead of saying like hey this could [TS]

  happen you know it's actually happening and we're seeing you know the last lap [TS]

  around the track was slower right that's not justice not just you and I the [TS]

  commentators in the booth speculating maybe his lower the runners lower that [TS]

  its aid you know can clock it faces off very very worrisome to me i i havent [TS]

  looked it up on during for up I will before the show hits but I think it's [TS]

  and there's a couple of somebody else has stated that backs up to mix panel [TS]

  but the stuff from Apple I trust ya I mean it's the numbers I kinda had [TS]

  imagined you can hold them to their phone numbers that I don't know why you [TS]

  wouldn't want to I think I think that it's not like I don't think it's too [TS]

  late I don't think they can not turn you know but I feel though that they've got [TS]

  a shift priorities suddenly in favor of higher quality even at the expense of [TS]

  doing less in the same amount of time [TS]

  well I mean is it too late for the next cycle I don't know I don't know mark [TS]

  fuhrman reported that they've got 8.1 8.2 and 8.3 intestine which is different [TS]

  than most previous years they've only done a point one [TS]

  and I you know who knows if that's the case or not it was unclear from his [TS]

  report how much of that was just coming from user agent strings that that they [TS]

  saw at 9 to 5 Mac and Google Analytics which are usually fake yeah I'm has it [TS]

  into it but he also suggested though that he'd spoken to people who backed [TS]

  that up 8.2 he's great he's got good sourcing allow the time I'm hesitant to [TS]

  you know to describe anything to version numbers like you know did just 26 [TS]

  process i believe i phone 672 679 does not matter [TS]

  those things don't get a signed in the code names were weird to the plus was [TS]

  end 56 62 64 send 61 hadn't heard so spit I think we've booked until their [TS]

  cases [TS]

  yeah yeah like for example like for example the fact that the six is in 61 [TS]

  and plus is in 56 doesn't mean that the six came after there's no right it [TS]

  doesn't mean that there were four iterations between it it is apparently [TS]

  just you know there's an open slot at 10:56 here take it [TS]

  call it your device the end 56 [TS]

  but people inside application really used to call him by this divide those [TS]

  names right but but there's a great and the easiest thing to faker fudge or [TS]

  whatever in world's the user agent string of the browser add-on as I let me [TS]

  take a third brake will wrap up the show but I want to thank our third and final [TS]

  sponsor this episode right back week after week from last week its you bar at [TS]

  a Mac utility it's a doc replacement for the Mac and it can be configured in a [TS]

  bunch of ways you can configure as a replacement for the Mac OS dark that's [TS]

  sort of the same style or if you're a Windows convert to the Mac or just a Mac [TS]

  user who likes the window style taskbar you bar has a configuration options that [TS]

  you can set up to be a lot more taskbar like the doc like so if you referred to [TS]

  for a doc you can configure that way if its task bar you can do it that way but [TS]

  no matter how you can trigger it looks great [TS]

  Bureau as ten it's it's just a Mac utility it all written really native to [TS]

  develop breast I mention this last week so fasten his hobby one of his hobbies [TS]

  is mechanical watch making and it really shows like really really nice handmade [TS]

  mechanical watches with everything you think really fine attention to the [TS]

  typography dials and the shape and the exact length of the hands and everything [TS]

  like that you bar looks like software from someone who makes precision really [TS]

  does to me [TS]

  but it's got a bunch of added readers nerdy features that sort of stuff that [TS]

  if you listen to the talk show you might be interested in [TS]

  so it's sort of also add the features of activity monitor right into your taskbar [TS]

  dock to hold the Ctrl key on your keyboard why you scrub across absent a [TS]

  target it replaces the CPU name of the app name with the CPU and RAM usage for [TS]

  each process running a dog you can spot unresponsive apps immediately a nap [TS]

  that's doing the spending of death [TS]

  get a flat rate in the rain the doc right away tons of customers [TS]

  customization light and dark themes just like in Yosemite you can add favorites [TS]

  for quick access to have its just show the absence of running and the developer [TS]

  he's right he's working like mad he's really just focused on this you bar 2.0 [TS]

  launched in July and has already been 30 updates and they sponsored the show last [TS]

  episode and he said the response from listeners has been phenomenal a bunch of [TS]

  listener suggestions have already been implemented in new bar through updates [TS]

  just since last week has been blown away by how smart and enthusiastic and Alice [TS]

  at how good-looking the audience listens to the show is already had here the [TS]

  Apple store business specialists emailed him because customers started asking [TS]

  about you bar after her son and at a Japanese users spend it sent him an [TS]

  email saying that a typhoon was on its way to Japan which gave him free time [TS]

  because he didn't have to go to work so we sent over a full Japanese translation [TS]

  of the user interface so now just since the last episode is it is now localized [TS]

  in Japanese due to a typhoon so hopefully everybody is OK from the type [TS]

  good news really really really interesting software I had not heard of [TS]

  this utility before and it's really really interesting I it's certainly not [TS]

  for everybody that's the whole point of things like Doc replacements in and you [TS]

  know launch bar and Alfred and and apps like that that that sort of thing is not [TS]

  for everybody right Alfred are not supposed to replace spotlight for [TS]

  everybody spotlights the interface that's like that's for like hundreds of [TS]

  millions of people things like you bar is you know for geeks who want to [TS]

  customize really really interesting normally the app is 20 bucks which is a [TS]

  steal for software like this but here's the past where the code coupon code [TS]

  reader addition all one word like the the watch Gruber eEdition and you get [TS]

  50% off meaning it's just 10 bucks 50% off 10 bucks for an amazing app from a [TS]

  developer's clearly very very responsive to requests so I wouldn't be surprised [TS]

  if you looked at it and thought or just add one more thing maybe I would send [TS]

  the suggestion in here is where you go to find out more [TS]

  bar you be AR app dot com you bar appt dot com in the coupon code all one word [TS]

  Gruber eEdition nice like gold pure gold group has been it's been like a day [TS]

  since the episode came out but that's a lot to happen yeah that these shims [TS]

  awesome that's great and you know it's it's not even like a shocking because [TS]

  he's not like these kind of things i've seen [TS]

  its reversibility like this is this is destined and intended four aces a case [TS]

  go get this right [TS]

  yeah it's like you know BBEdit is not sure like 20 [TS]

  you need it you you know you need it is Apple is focusing on you know all across [TS]

  the board like that's the way to survive when Apple has a built-in app that does [TS]

  busy Cal physicality gets by by doing more and better than the built-in [TS]

  calendar and yeah I mean you should you should note that the Mac so you know you [TS]

  gotta say we can do better but you have to look at it and say Apple's always [TS]

  going to do something that sort of very very basic for the built-in get where we [TS]

  you tell me I don't know I think we were talking about we're wrapping up I think [TS]

  the discussion on the annual cycle yeah they where where where do we think that [TS]

  they should go from here and I'll write about and you know what [TS]

  honestly I think that at this point the I think one of the problems is they've [TS]

  committed themselves doing a major revision every year and that is and as [TS]

  much as a marketing and Apple [TS]

  done correctly I don't think you can commit yourself to doing as many new [TS]

  features per year as they have been committing themselves to do and [TS]

  integrating across all the product lines from the Mac to Iowa to the watch and [TS]

  eventually to the Apple TV stuff maybe that's a little you know it'll [TS]

  eventually thing [TS]

  I I don't know what to do i mean maybe just get away from numbers at that point [TS]

  like this I need to be iris and I next year we're going to just be like years [TS]

  only to stay away [TS]

  I don't know though I don't know either really don't know what will happen is [TS]

  untenable field I see the center that of getting a reversion arms but on the [TS]

  other hand it's like I really don't know what version numbers mean to people like [TS]

  what does my dad and his iPad says that I point out is available how much of [TS]

  that is gibberish and how much of it did you get the basic idea that they're just [TS]

  you know the new number I don't know I mean he's not you know but I do want you [TS]

  so that's a that's a great point but I do wonder instead internally and because [TS]

  there's so involved in the industry and the particular way of looking at things [TS]

  and they see in new version number meaning major new features made it I [TS]

  need you know and I know this is off the beaten path [TS]

  horse that's beaten on somebody's been beaten [TS]

  yeah but to compare them to compare software version numbers to the [TS]

  automobile industry and nobody's confused when they say the new 2015 [TS]

  under court at the 2016 underscored may not be its only every four three four [TS]

  five years that they actually do like wow that's altogether new drivetrain [TS]

  that's a new you know new body shape you know and in between you know the years [TS]

  their incremental but they don't label them differently and they might [TS]

  advertising more when there's a major new change right when they truly chap [TS]

  grade the body and make it look a lot more modern than it bigger and has a [TS]

  major new technology in the engine [TS]

  they might spend more on the ad campaign that year than they did the year before [TS]

  when it was an incremental version of the one before but they still just give [TS]

  it a new year and I just say it's the 2016 and you know and that seems to work [TS]

  pretty well for them I don't know and I always thought that that was sort of [TS]

  with Microsoft was going for when they went from Windows 32312 windows [TS]

  ninety-five was the summer let's not bother people with and then windows 98 [TS]

  and then they you know I guess there is a Windows 2000 ran in different [TS]

  directions with XP I think maybe because they were I think it was a good idea but [TS]

  you know they would announce something and then shipped here later I think that [TS]

  victim and 82 got cold feet [TS]

  yeah that they were having they were and and that they weren't doing it annually [TS]

  in so you were still running Office 98 in the year 2001 and its old whereas if [TS]

  it had just been a version number you might not think that whereas it really [TS]

  seemed like and I don't know maybe there is something even it made it worse about [TS]

  crossing the millennium and still running you know maybe but I mean I [TS]

  works 11 yeah that was awful I think Apple can I stepped in that exact same [TS]

  right so I beloved up to the same thing yeah I work 11 was was up to date up [TS]

  until and it's funny because some people still like it better [TS]

  yeah show that's awkward date and a bit of a Microsoft know me and my cousin [TS]

  matter it's just the case that you know even the companies that are functioning [TS]

  well it's just so take so long to ship big software projects so yeah I don't [TS]

  know if getting rid of version numbers will be the problem I don't know if just [TS]

  doing less in each one and letting you know I guess other couple people have [TS]

  called it having a snow leopard moment you know like Apple said with Snow [TS]

  Leopard but you know what a great but a great balls he lifted I can't think of [TS]

  any other company in the industry ever literally ever [TS]

  had a big event saying we have nothing new [TS]

  we're just going to believe we're just gonna spend the next couple of months [TS]

  and you know we've spent the last few months I'm gonna keep me in the next few [TS]

  months you know cleaning up the foundation [TS]

  whichever wellness was effectively a misdirection because they had GCD did a [TS]

  bunch of changes and yeah they had done but it was a user features yeah it was [TS]

  really hard to market right GCD Dec that wasn't just as she sees a perfect [TS]

  example where ya think so yeah and I think Syracuse have pointed out that [TS]

  perfectly in his review that you know no new features does not mean he had [TS]

  nothing to write about if anything he had as much to write about his ever [TS]

  before because he cares deeply about that sort of stuff but from like what do [TS]

  you tell normal people who are just coming in for a new MacBook will what's [TS]

  new in Snow Leopard it's well we've cleaned up under hood and it runs more [TS]

  efficiently [TS]

  it's better to write better as seen in conversation but it's you know it was a [TS]

  fact that the lot of engineering resources had been committed to and [TS]

  devoted to things like GCD in dark and stuff like that that wasn't users facing [TS]

  and you know again it's it's in a sense sometimes not even sometimes almost [TS]

  always the best marketing is to be completely honest you know and even if [TS]

  it sounds like a funny thing for tech company to say no new features I don't [TS]

  know what over well with everybody I know and I think in hindsight it was a [TS]

  great release I agreed but I do you know everybody you know and everybody I know [TS]

  right did ya that's been a small window yeah but you know it is but think about [TS]

  the people you know you know like with a dream-like with you [TS]

  recommending that she not update wouldn't you like to be able to tell her [TS]

  next year when I was nine yet just go ahead and update its gonna make your [TS]

  phone [TS]

  faster but really if you really believe that that was the case don't you think [TS]

  that would go over well with her I mean I yeah like restoring a little bit [TS]

  shaken Stephanie narrative told kato 2880 to do it covered [TS]

  can be good just a little bit of trepidation ya next year just for me I [TS]

  do like I think like a lot of people like she had iTunes Match turned on and [TS]

  she updated she got a new phone and she updated her she had the phone said [TS]

  Oliver music was there and then she went to the gym and there was like no musical [TS]

  as I got welcome to iTunes Match and she blame me because she just knows that I [TS]

  don't work at Apple and I certainly nothing to do with iTunes Match but she [TS]

  blames me that the cloud is just unreliable and I said hey I think the [TS]

  but I did as I turned off iTunes Match and I have all the music I want it on my [TS]

  computer and I just sync to iTunes feel passionately as I see your phone turned [TS]

  off iTunes Match plugged into a Mac and sink in said put all of her music on it [TS]

  and now older music is there and she never gonna complaining it but I would [TS]

  love to have been able to say to her yet just upgrade to Iowa State and it fixes [TS]

  on the iTunes Match issues [TS]

  yeah that makes sense to me i i haven't actually used iTunes Match but the [TS]

  little things with the cloud stuff that works like yeah that's what I'm saying [TS]

  like I used to really worry about back in a fight inside because I thought that [TS]

  and it died I'd be screwed that's mostly no longer the case [TS]

  yeah yeah I don't care about a new device gotta love it least it lists [TS]

  everything that everybody can watch and I you know I can buy my new phone and I [TS]

  can watch seen around on it as a body [TS]

  so I don't really care about them well I think music not to go to lighten the [TS]

  tension but I think music is very different from movies because with [TS]

  movies if you you know you don't necessary [TS]

  there's no real good reason to have all of your movies with you all the time on [TS]

  your local device really the only time I worry but yeah something and even then [TS]

  you're probably a load a handful of them and you can't stand to see their way [TS]

  whereas you know what I listen to music for the next 90 minutes and you don't [TS]

  have any of it on your device it you know it's a pain in the ass if you have [TS]

  to sit there and wait for the most part the stuff does still just work where you [TS]

  get a new device and sign in here if you don't restore from a backup and [TS]

  designing your iCloud account and you say what was that book that I book and I [TS]

  wanted to look back up there isn't it the club unjust comes down but it [TS]

  doesn't always work sometimes it just download get stuck so what's your take [TS]

  on this yearly update thing you know John group in 2002 he seemed to think it [TS]

  was a great idea I think what like what would you be here they have you seen [TS]

  this discussion now you know if you had to be this piece [TS]

  well not to appease plywood and I think that they I think that they should go [TS]

  there I think the annual pace is probably fine and actually probably [TS]

  helps keep them in check but I think that they should consider doing less per [TS]

  year and polishing more and if they can figure out a way to let some ideas [TS]

  operate you know well if you get it done then you're in but if you don't but then [TS]

  maybe not advertising them it w maybe promising less at WWDC and maybe slating [TS]

  some of those things for [TS]

  or a 9.2 update in March 2016 that it does make it hard for developers and it [TS]

  makes it hard for custom more importantly from Apple customers like [TS]

  you need to I think the reason that they stick to hard version numbers is it that [TS]

  is the gate through functionality right and it is and so many other things our [TS]

  annual at Apple the phones come out on an annual basis and for competitive [TS]

  reasons they really do need to because their competitors come out with new [TS]

  Apple only come out with one set of new phones every year is slow compared to [TS]

  everybody else in industry and it will take place but it it's delivered and [TS]

  delivered in an industry where there's not much deliberation where it's sort of [TS]

  soon you know if you can ship it less shipping see if people buy but Apple is [TS]

  very deliberative and a half to be but then they run the things we're gonna [TS]

  sell hundred-million of the same thing here they need to be able to have a [TS]

  hundred million of every single component you know they need to have a [TS]

  hundred million a chip hundred-million of the new you know eighty retina [TS]

  displays in two different sizes etc etc it every single thing in the box but the [TS]

  hardware runs on doesn't run on a yearly cycle though that's the thing they come [TS]

  out every year but they're in the works for longer than a year a lot longer than [TS]

  a year which is why it's taken them a little bit to longer than the market [TS]

  would dictate to come out with bigger phones because it's you know if it takes [TS]

  two years to make a new iPhone they didn't get to commit to these phones [TS]

  until about two years ago [TS]

  like the iPhone seven or whatever you wanna call nature's years maybe but it's [TS]

  more than a year it's so maybe it's not quite two years maybe more later but but [TS]

  the team that doing next year's iPhones is already long day at work force you [TS]

  know 67 a month yet [TS]

  I don't know I mean I'm sure you know but just to listen up there it's kind of [TS]

  funny when you talk to people who work at Apple because they have no idea what [TS]

  happened in what police know they actually do like to gather more for them [TS]

  it's a guy was done with that six months a year before you ever sides right yeah [TS]

  and that they don't know what's going to be called to have no idea they honestly [TS]

  don't know and so that really is what confuses it for them historically is [TS]

  that while they were working on stuff they don't know what it was going to be [TS]

  called and so in hindsight back to three years they don't they just know we [TS]

  should remember what products something she did they have to remind them they're [TS]

  like oh really that's interesting so now I don't think the annual schedule is off [TS]

  but I think that they need to pace themselves better I don't know but again [TS]

  like I said maybe the optimistic take is that iOS aid because it introduced all [TS]

  this you think this was an aggressor julie's follow and that preceded by [TS]

  another guest [TS]

  yeah yeah [TS]

  maybe that'd be great you know I think it's it'll be interesting to see how you [TS]

  somebody comes out I i've been running the G em i think its pretty good but I [TS]

  don't think we're heading towards about it but yeah but in terms of quality I [TS]

  don't think it's going to be a problem like I was a known less words [TS]

  famous last words I guess but I don't think so I think I think that the [TS]

  changes are mostly skin deep [TS]

  yeah and and while I have some issues with their doing think you can be adding [TS]

  that the two lived allure pieces like kids it's weird but I don't think you [TS]

  need to take the nights that I know and I think it also passes the every time I [TS]

  go back to Mavericks now I think it looks really outdated [TS]

  I'm never larry was saying is that it brings me back to Windows Vista which [TS]

  did the blue thing right [TS]

  and whoever did that if you listening and you find me I will buy you lots of [TS]

  beers because [TS]

  yeah that sucks we all afternoon and now iOS and Mac OS you just totally against [TS]

  everything a lovely time everything is blurry and that goes used he's not at [TS]

  the bottom glass you should be there is I don't want to go too divided in two [TS]

  hours we should wrap it up and wait till actually ships before really getting [TS]

  yeah show but there is some weird stuff though where the way the apples doing it [TS]

  and I know you agree the main thing is that what you have a translucent [TS]

  sidebars sidebars [TS]

  is translucent whatever it reflects the color of your desktop regardless of how [TS]

  many windows are in between the front window in the desktop it is I don't know [TS]

  I want to talk to you did this so let's just say you have an orange dust I've [TS]

  got it right now with with the the carpet from the shiny he does it when [TS]

  the window is the first most which is completely ok right it is crap I i well [TS]

  people people have been here my description and then they're gonna file [TS]

  it away and I think I can't quite be like that but then everybody's gonna [TS]

  upgrade to yosemite in a couple of weeks a week or two and then the river was [TS]

  right but it's like so if you just imagine you have one window open and [TS]

  that's how Apple all their screen shot shows just one window at a time [TS]

  this translucent part chose the colors blurred shows the colors of your [TS]

  underlying desktop picture through so if you have like an orange top pattern [TS]

  orange blurry but then if you have Windows in between the front window in [TS]

  the desktop and they're all white like this is say they're all txt Edit windows [TS]

  but there are stacked on top of each other [TS]

  the sidebars so large it somehow right I can imagine the discussion that led to [TS]

  this where I can imagine a discussion where the idea was started well we'll [TS]

  make it you know you make it see through make a translucent and it was all based [TS]

  on just like one window on the desktop and then somebody was like but what if [TS]

  you have Windows in between Jackson right what if there was room with a [TS]

  window and instead of saying we should start right they would just be like well [TS]

  then it would be it would just be gray and instead and somebody will be dull [TS]

  and [TS]

  and it will lose that was that phrase a keeper using those shows the character [TS]

  of your desktop and then somebody somebody said well it'll still show here [TS]

  to top colors and that's what they might happen I don't understand there's no [TS]

  logic to it maybe and maybe that's you know maybe they're going to two people [TS]

  like you and I as I want to see I wanted to work like somehow I need to [TS]

  understand it visually in spatially [TS]

  I want there to be rules I wanted to be like game and if this is see-through [TS]

  than it should show whatever is behind it the rules are completely fucking [TS]

  arbitrary [TS]

  like now i'm looking at a programming [TS]

  restrictions placed on this did ya get why did you as well made but instead [TS]

  yeah I'm not sure I also I do feel to have predicted that the backlash is [TS]

  going to be that Helvetica really is pretty choppy on non retina displays its [TS]

  this is the what you're seeing in Yosemite [TS]

  name for it really did not like a name for the team anymore so I called [TS]

  anything but the USMNT you know look and feel the chrome is its forward-thinking [TS]

  to win all Macs are gonna have redness quality displays which i think is funny [TS]

  and and I think you're trying to avoid link I know something [TS]

  yeah it's it's a different thing yeah I think it's the right time and again it [TS]

  just you know you said with the whole compositing system [TS]

  Mac OS 10 10.0% your lumps but then when the hardware catches up we're already be [TS]

  ready and you know I feel like I feel like the whole yosemite look and feel is [TS]

  so clearly optimized for retina and then made secondhand to look as good as [TS]

  possible on on right now as opposed to the other way around where up until now [TS]

  the Mac interface has been non runner first and then it just looks kinda weird [TS]

  on not that it looks low res but that it just just odd I told him to be an issue [TS]

  I am sitting in front of him Mac Pro Apple and screen right and can you [TS]

  simply look one day hopefully soon but no I told you I think it's fine I think [TS]

  every now and then there's gonna be a jump and something is gonna be degraded [TS]

  and you know to bring it back to the peace did we talked about previously and [TS]

  tickner 2034 every now and then you take it you take your lumps take a step back [TS]

  and it lets you sort of moving to the future and I think you somebody's going [TS]

  to lose my job to link output and Schoenherr to link up that article and I [TS]

  disagree with a ninety percent of this because it's easy to say now and I did [TS]

  it they did at the time but again but [TS]

  like a lot of this is probably gone right where at least history didn't bail [TS]

  you out but this is a camp treating you and this is one of the reasons why I'm [TS]

  like this is this is a very smart piece very well considered I disagree with the [TS]

  conclusions a lot of it though is our stuff they could never really be settled [TS]

  yeah I know my name extensions filename extensions is perfect and the passes [TS]

  another one the file past things to add a kid I could do another show yes some [TS]

  point I mean we had we had software update errs in the nineties from the [TS]

  classic Mac OS that no matter where you put the application on your hard disk if [TS]

  you ran the updater it would find it because it would find the app by [TS]

  identifier and then update the app to the latest version so you don't have to [TS]

  put it in a special folder and remember I forget what happened was it was i [TS]

  photo one of the I like iTunes and iPhoto but the the next guys wrote an [TS]

  updater in like 2002 or 2003 or so and so do you know what it really is the [TS]

  very next article in their own fault finding out you had you had a nice out [TS]

  but he did yeah you'd run the iTunes updater and if you rename the hard [TS]

  hardness if you done anything clever at all which is because it was making [TS]

  assumptions about the paths yeah it's only a trend of various who went on to [TS]

  manage my message [TS]

  games and all that kind of stuff do you know the game talking [TS]

  ok so I and my belief is one of his first gigs with [TS]

  they can't forget that installer and his things to fix it I know I am NOT [TS]

  laughing at the guy should have you know what I was hiking the way that you say I [TS]

  really had it out for your opinion back then I don't know what you did in [TS]

  hindsight I feel a little immature even higher [TS]

  yeah it was pennies yeah yeah and then hindsight you know has helped turn out [TS]

  around and even acknowledging the article even acknowledging the article [TS]

  that the classic Mac OS updates [TS]

  next reunification him and they were outstanding by so is 29 whatever but [TS]

  especially especially a point I think 80 anyone at 8.50 8.50 as big as I think it [TS]

  put quick draw on PowerPC yeah definitely if you with my classic there [TS]

  was a lot of good work down there and it was all under him [TS]

  yeah but I acknowledge that the day you did they don't understand the animosity [TS]

  file extensions was it like it just a narrative device which is cool I don't [TS]

  know I was a little bit and I was a little bit more [TS]

  less hesitant to go a little over the top you know to to fill the glass [TS]

  because I didn't have a big audience it was a very small I didn't think I would [TS]

  never have expected that he and maybe did I don't know but I you know where is [TS]

  now today I know that if I wrote something like that that Apple would [TS]

  read it and not afraid to rein in the critical someone an apple but yeah I [TS]

  want to have my ducks in a row make sure that it is it is not over the top I [TS]

  wanted to be at the exact right level of yet these days to post to me are [TS]

  literally fireballs yeah which is not to say that you don't love him now and I [TS]

  don't take that away from me but this is just wrong that I think he would be now [TS]

  I think you've been measured and it's like my use of the word jackets where I [TS]

  was used to be freer with it [TS]

  yeah and I don't think I never once regretted it a little bit but I miss [TS]

  those jackets of the weakest trying it was funny but it was usually people [TS]

  being jackasses but it got to the point where I realize though that a lot of [TS]

  people who I would call jackass the week when you google them the first hit was [TS]

  me calling him a jackass is I don't but I did me know but I always meant though [TS]

  but when I said someone was being a jackass that they were literally being a [TS]

  jackass they were being willfully ignorant to see this particular choices [TS]

  bad writing but I you come up with I use it WAY less frequently now though [TS]

  because I know that you know during fireball is more widely read more [TS]

  influential enough said his decision right right in the same way where if my [TS]

  criticism of like an apple or something like that I try I try to be more [TS]

  measured now [TS]

  but without being you know dole I don't hold back [TS]

  know me best way I can put it i dont wanna go over the top [TS]

  wanna get right to the top I wanna make sure it actor whereas in the early days [TS]

  I was felt free to go over the top because I didn't feel that they were any [TS]

  repercussions from ya and I don't mean to the club critic but so that the [TS]

  second piece but I V immediately after the other one finding out literally [TS]

  stretch with a handful of readers email to complain about Monday's mixed review [TS]

  of civilians legacy at Apple's vice president engineering and you just ahead [TS]

  on which is one of the reasons I can totally disagree with this game but good [TS]

  work you know where these articles are way down in New York their way back to [TS]

  you I will we should end the show but I will put them in the show notes or at [TS]

  least you can keep reading next previous article to yeah but I'm 2003 yes you can [TS]

  search for his name [TS]

  thank you [TS]

  so this is variably could probably pretty inside baseball I loved the then [TS]

  flipped lattice opinion on the watch introduction I think I thought it was [TS]

  great I really did and it and its peak I mean I am only bringing up these [TS]

  miracles back in the day of this and I sometimes we dance pieces can disagree [TS]

  but so well thought-out good you know various market ya know I reminds me of [TS]

  the thing I just like two weeks ago linked to it [TS]

  Jason freed peace basis was addressing thirties [TS]

  base camp and at thirty-seven seconds but came in and did like a Q&A and he's [TS]

  the first person say here's how you can be right time [TS]

  be willing to change my love to you know because you'll be wrong and change and [TS]

  then it was just funny and Ben Ben did that with the white ribbon had a sort of [TS]

  almost skating initial take on it and then we could talk himself into being [TS]

  one of the biggest proponent out there and there was a similar thing with Steve [TS]

  Jobs and Tim Cook and came out after Steve died but attempts first ever [TS]

  conference he said he was he was the world's biggest in the world but that's [TS]

  what made him great was one day he tell you this is a terrible idea it off on [TS]

  any committee next day and say I have a great idea and it was your idea that you [TS]

  know that his refute you know that he was open anything you know we're never [TS]

  gonna make an iTunes for Windows ok we'll make ideas for us and then you [TS]

  know you know iPod from windows becomes a huge hit over and over and over again [TS]

  and then just comes up with people who you know have quote Steve Jobs saying [TS]

  that you know eight inch tablets are terrible idea [TS]

  nobody's ever gonna be a big phone but proved that Apple's doing things they [TS]

  wouldn't have done under Steve Jobs no I mean it's you know the market changes [TS]

  you know it well that's good and change yeah exactly that's putting it I think [TS]

  there is huge I think it is an error to canonize Steve Jobs the guy I don't want [TS]

  to take them but [TS]

  you know his is not the word of God not set in stone [TS]

  well it's that word the word from that to give too much actual religion into a [TS]

  bill with the Catholic Church infallibility right yeah right the pope [TS]

  has held his infallible and you know it's it's a real problem because you [TS]

  know human beings aren't actually infallible but did you know but there's [TS]

  a tendency among many to view and it's funny because it comes from both sides [TS]

  also comes from like even like the DIR downgrade types who say I thought steve [TS]

  Jobs was infallible and he said nobody would buy a fine and you know and it's [TS]

  also combined with the fact that was true in 2011 is not true in 2014 invites [TS]

  I mean I believe this is in Victoria Street you know there was a guy telling [TS]

  a natural apple doesn't behave in a certain way and then the iowa AP was the [TS]

  chick i SAT and I think that should put she acted view of the way that Apple [TS]

  doesn't does not operate and where it will innovate where it will just just [TS]

  but where does the common you know implementation to lack of a better word [TS]

  to compatibility option right and I think you know with the following [TS]

  extensions and credit cards and all of that I think Apple did case from [TS]

  something that might have been better but they caved in order to achieve [TS]

  compatibility and i notice he put that in 2008 but [TS]

  but a compatibility with the broader computing world and they did so in order [TS]

  to achieve the ability to communicate with the outside world better wish I [TS]

  think Chris is smart choice given the time like communicating was just about [TS]

  to become essential I agree with that to some degree I I would at least say that [TS]

  there's a do it wasn't an unreasonable the other side of the argument wasn't [TS]

  unreasonable to think so which is why add value in syracuse and it was [TS]

  different sets of tradeoffs [TS]

  value more and I just you know you know and again you might be right note that [TS]

  in the long run it worked out better going with those decisions then and you [TS]

  know one of the reasons why is that ultimately resulted with iOS where the [TS]

  actual file system is hidden [TS]

  which i think is is it big proponent yeah that that's fine to me because then [TS]

  it doesn't matter if under the hood it's a case-sensitive file system with file [TS]

  extension would I think it's cases which is fine I would argue again said only if [TS]

  they ever did that with the Mac where the filesystem matters raucous it's [TS]

  exposed to you but right to usual users right let you know I can conceive of a [TS]

  Mac 10 years from now maybe even last may be five years from now where it's [TS]

  the file system is only for people who've install Xcode [TS]

  so I have a difference between the presentation versus the representation [TS]

  right where presentation is what you see is a user and the representations WiMAX [TS]

  is actually happening on disk anything found systems in a lot of ways and David [TS]

  exposing have representation of exactly what's happening rather than you know [TS]

  projecting a view that it is more useful to the gym file system file name [TS]

  extension as a user exposed feature has always been a bullshit it's awful it's [TS]

  two pieces of data makes anyone feel separated by carbon just a piece of a [TS]

  piece of text just a dot will turn sit in between right and so it's easily you [TS]

  know it's easily it is easily changed you know if you want to but you know I [TS]

  can't take any times I've talked to people who thought that the way you [TS]

  convert the ping to a JPEG is to erase the PNG and type jpg you know that [TS]

  should actually work it should in theory that would be amazing if I could see you [TS]

  know should do that that's right it should say I notice you did that would [TS]

  you like me to change this to a JPEG I would be amazing but guess what that [TS]

  doesn't actually happening but people I can see why north to a normal person it [TS]

  should work and to me it's just like well why not put the creation and [TS]

  modification date in there too and then you have to have a date and a name and [TS]

  file extension on no its exact same it's the file says same thing the file system [TS]

  has always had a field for the creation date and the modification date it's [TS]

  different from the name and never had never had a field for the type so and it [TS]

  should have a history of this no but I'm just saying that two pieces of data in [TS]

  the same field is the Mac didn't suffer from that had something that was more [TS]

  graceful and it wasn't built for the future and it wasn't built for [TS]

  compatibility with anybody else but they should have only replaced it with [TS]

  something that was better with something that was [TS]

  more primitive I think found a mixed engines were you didn't matter it was [TS]

  bill defeated into the correct at this before you know school stuff when it [TS]

  became apparent that we would have to file formats that would work in not just [TS]

  one application but in multiple applications extensions were born right [TS]

  and the way the dead cat addressed with just being literally appended to the end [TS]

  of the funny it's the most pragmatic workmanlike thing you can do and it was [TS]

  so obvious and so basic that I think pretty much universally it was it was [TS]

  adopted the Mac try to throw it off and I think ultimately failed because it [TS]

  didn't fit in command a market share that they could really make it happen [TS]

  you know but it wasn't really wasn't a problem for Mac users so when you [TS]

  download in the old days when you could download a file on the server those [TS]

  coming from it didn't have any type code because it wasn't a Mac server it would [TS]

  just come down whatever software you downloaded with would look at the file [TS]

  extension and just put the right creator Kota are not greater could type it in [TS]

  what way to look at the mimetype given by the private mind and all the all the [TS]

  browsers did all the FTP clients did it it was it wasn't as as much of a problem [TS]

  as you would think it was it was it was not an issue known I am saying this is [TS]

  why did the file name extension thing exists and why I think you can explain [TS]

  it to anybody and anybody would get it yeah but i just i in hindsight to me is [TS]

  the big thing isn't which side was right it's that everybody was wrong because [TS]

  giving users access to the file system [TS]

  in the first place i 100% right and it was what level of technical ability are [TS]

  you expecting the people who do have access to the file system to have well I [TS]

  agree with you but I don't think it was wrong so much as a necessity at the time [TS]

  I mean the first Mac ships [TS]

  640 case no car no 128 K [TS]

  128 yeah ok whatever ways you didn't have to be sources in abstract storage [TS]

  system away right and I'm sure their minds I can't believe this were arguing [TS]

  I don't know who are doing and not really but there's another factor too so [TS]

  that techno 2034 said use file extensions I think it said use it [TS]

  instead of typing creator I'm not sure but it was what the problem is that it [TS]

  broke the way millions of actual Mac users were using their Macs and Mac [TS]

  users did they did that's how many shell on the corner of these days so I know [TS]

  it's a very small number I mean it was for a long long time the estimated user [TS]

  base of active Mac users covered that's dangerous when it hovers instead of [TS]

  grows and twenty twenty million yeah i dont wanna guested [TS]

  425 million yes I'll ok so maybe who knows who knows how many reas but but [TS]

  the idea but handy to hand-wringing over that that person and as a graphic [TS]

  designer as an artist you assume that you could have files with the same [TS]

  extension that would open when you double-click would open in different [TS]

  apps you know that the ones you created in Photoshop would open Photoshop and [TS]

  the ones you created [TS]

  in Table I would open in da belies I think that's a good feature i think is [TS]

  this feature when you send that followed the network and simply tricyclic it and [TS]

  told him that happen [TS]

  yeah I totally agree with that [TS]

  where it did make some problems I was just again this tradeoff is a better for [TS]

  me is it better for me to be able to have all my files open right in the [TS]

  Apple made them with or is it better for you when I give them to you that they [TS]

  have the right code [TS]

  actually like we could hit me again would say if you strip off to create [TS]

  occurred during transmitted panic plague transmission its nine you'd get a new [TS]

  one based on your preferences when Defoe had been created code but the main point [TS]

  it is the main point though is that none of these people in the graphic design [TS]

  workflows should not have been built around direct access to the computer [TS]

  file system you know there should have been something a little bit more [TS]

  abstracted in the doorway iOS is gone [TS]

  is ideal and it makes everybody happy I think so I mean it's literally a fresh [TS]

  reboot grade and you know there's been missteps yeah but it's taken awhile to [TS]

  get the document picking thing which is what everybody brings up is up now we're [TS]

  back with a file system is not the file system a system like what did you call [TS]

  projection projection and i actually an on premise of the bad that often but I [TS]

  really think that projections debate with Dad I Cloud Drive on you simply [TS]

  does it right i think that this is not we are not looking too fast [TS]

  a projection of data Jess's is pulled up the photo picker don't think about the [TS]

  files you think about the photos he's good and I think that this is the better [TS]

  way forward and it's not confusing it might be limiting it still is limiting [TS]

  and until you know until the document picture it was definitely limiting [TS]

  because to open the same image that was from it was in your photo in your camera [TS]

  roll to open it in after light or visco camp he would make a copy of it and [TS]

  imported into their thing and then they would open in if you want to save it [TS]

  back out you have to save a new copy back to the photo also you've got three [TS]

  copies now your original the one in this Go cam Inman it was the filtered version [TS]

  saved back to your camera obviously inefficient but didn't you know it was [TS]

  inefficient but it didn't you know at least protected people from blowing [TS]

  their photos apart and the new way you know is better its way cooler that you [TS]

  can just open it right up [TS]

  Invesco Canada saves right back to the same camel all it's great but it was [TS]

  that's what that's the ultimate goal the whole you no idea that users are not [TS]

  gonna have direct access to the file system because so many things and I to [TS]

  me the most telltale sign that it was a filing extension for about a day in the [TS]

  Mac was at the immediately defaulted to hiding them yeah and I mean it came [TS]

  pretty quickly [TS]

  where the file name extension and it made people so confused because in the [TS]

  old Mac in classic Mac OS if you had a file named portrait . jpg didn't have to [TS]

  have the Dodge Jeep YouTube so you could just had you don't need to be a JPEG but [TS]

  it would just be an importer and if you had another file you want to convert it [TS]

  to a different format like pain or something like that you couldn't give it [TS]

  the same name you couldn't have to file name portrait same folder because it's [TS]

  whereas all of a sudden a Mac OS 10 you can have portrait JPG and PNG in the [TS]

  same folder and they both said portrait and they both look like the same [TS]

  because extensions hittin you can't tell which is BS right so you know you just [TS]

  talking yourself in circles when you start saying that its ok we can do it [TS]

  and then to avoid the confusion will hide it and you know hiding things never [TS]

  the right idea i i agree with you and I did at the time I just think it's a [TS]

  magic solution but you know the truth is the reason I say that is distraught [TS]

  fighting over which ways to be wrong because that Mac users shot themselves [TS]

  in the foot with the file system to aid in different ways I feel that there is [TS]

  as yet unsolved problem here I don't think exposing fascist go basically it's [TS]

  a developer the file system is a developer level yeah anyhow and can [TS]

  important you can be a good weekend we got on the nerd talk about them [TS]

  yeah let me let's give a big let's give a big pitch to the podcast because [TS]

  you're doing amazing amazing work that you've dropped a couple references to it [TS]

  but you've got a series and there's a ton debug [TS]

  where you've got done done done right now he's left apple recently he was the [TS]

  head of web kids fiery and Adam super colorful history in the industry in the [TS]

  best storytellers I've ever heard in the epic epic podcast that you guys have [TS]

  recorded with them to part 1 was two hours and you just did a part 2 [TS]

  yesterday [TS]

  yes I mean we sat down with meeting in June and I was as every podcasting like [TS]

  panama gonna get it in our interview and energy did you ever did the interview I [TS]

  hope again now out of this and then it's get it man and so we had like three [TS]

  episodes totaling just horrible and then we put down out in it together in gonna [TS]

  get together hand we had another two hours [TS]

  two-hour episode and we just recorded and that the two hours yesterday the guy [TS]

  who's you know again make assumptions about how things work inside Apple but [TS]

  like you said he would one point he was the head of iOS apps right what he he [TS]

  literally came from working all kinds of school Apple stuff like carbon File [TS]

  Manager like seriously low-level carbon stuff like the carbon file manager he's [TS]

  he's he's really know we make this show but they've both been in the same top [TS]

  100 meeting and Apple right right and you know if you wanna hear some people [TS]

  speak bad apple and a little bit more freely than you're used to because [TS]

  they're not available anymore they're not all that and you know running [TS]

  especially with myself to you we we have for them a place where they can speak [TS]

  freely and will cut so that's it the debug podcasters yeah yeah and that's [TS]

  the only project that I'm willing to play because it's very little to do with [TS]

  me and has two guests amazing I was gonna give you a vector to yeah if you [TS]

  want to victory ok that's just a few keep quiet [TS]

  that whiskey system that I was with someone that was the one that Jesse [TS]

  Charles Victor did you like that one I like that yeah but I don't know he he [TS]

  stepped out and Jesse stepped in [TS]

  we just in case where you like the next one is also way and paydays please enter [TS]

  this I know you're listening to seek cut in he's got a point I know he can [TS]

  actually just jump in here [TS]

  and that's also I'm or dot com slash vector [TS]

  who gets what kind of smart very smart that she's a measurable probably best [TS]

  known to readers from violence and where I just saw her recently where they see [TS]

  her the event I guess yeah yeah very very smart [TS]

  yeah should be it should be here this weekend [TS]

  well too great podcast host regularly and have both of them have been on fire [TS]

  recently so anybody looking for more podcasts immoral on these lines boy [TS]

  can't recommend it enough and that the debug ones are classic seriously I mean [TS]

  I think that I don't mean the butter toast your guy but I think that they're [TS]

  up there with some of the day and the heartfelt stuff in terms of get those [TS]

  transcribe because fifteen twenty years from now that's that's good stuff that's [TS]

  largely been undocumented we transcribe them and we may be putting a collections [TS]

  and you know these stories are largely untold some of them are told but only [TS]

  like privately but they're burning bridges they're not stealing state [TS]

  secrets but it's often is years old stuff but there's so much context and so [TS]

  much I think you you start to understand the culture love ya know you definitely [TS]

  do and it's a great place to start [TS]

  thanks and again that's not me [TS]

  we really just set the stage people doesn't get juries yeah I guess I will [TS]

  see you soon [TS]

  yeah this weekend to you I feel like you're better [TS]