The Talk Show

103: ‘Robotitize the Assembly’, With Guest Dan Frommer


  you really want to talk about college baseball away that's why we're here [TS]

  Chicago Cubs 2015 national league champs I gotta tell you I am delighted to have [TS]

  dad Joe Maddon out at the Elysee that I think he is i think is the best manager [TS]

  in baseball I really do well I i heard similar things about Don Baylor Dusty [TS]

  Baker and Lou Piniella before they signed with the Cubs to sell it looks [TS]

  sweet Lou was a good manager he I i think i mean you got it like you know he [TS]

  he's got a certain style and intensity but he was good manager with the Yankees [TS]

  I thought he was a good manager with Seattle [TS]

  did actually succeed fairly well with the Cubs but they are so you know not [TS]

  every year [TS]

  yeah they were better than the Cubs usually are but they weren't they never [TS]

  got up to good now don't add that it hurt me because loop in Ala unless I'm [TS]

  my memories really shut he was managing Seattle in 95 the year right before the [TS]

  Yankees started their their dynasty but if you're headed Mariners had right and [TS]

  Mattingly was Mattingly's last season in his first time he got in the postseason [TS]

  and when he played mattingly played great he had a great series but just [TS]

  with salt in the wound that it was Yankee legend well we'll see I'm [TS]

  actually so I'm actually going to CES for the first time I remember this is [TS]

  something we talked about either a year or two ago yeah I might actually put a [TS]

  little money on the Cubs will see ya you know you got to do that to you gotta [TS]

  gotta make a profit that I was gonna do it [TS]

  profits are fine for two reasons one you get great odds I don't know what the [TS]

  cuts are a bit about their probably like 15 2010 at least maybe more [TS]

  something I don't know number two you have the challenge of keeping track of [TS]

  that little piece of paper in my right and it's like i don't even think they [TS]

  print them on the super high quiet like [TS]

  that heat transfer in a regular paper receipts you get from retail stores and [TS]

  if you like lead out in the Sun or something it'll fade to nothing or in [TS]

  your wallet for ya you know it's so you can I find that so weird cuz you would [TS]

  think you know I guess it's because they don't lose if your ticket but breakage [TS]

  and there's a Kickstarter casino receipts preserver get ya [TS]

  jet or something you know something's gonna last you should get good odds on [TS]

  that when did you decide to go to see yes a few weeks ago it was presented as [TS]

  an option for me here at courts and I've never been and I figured this is the [TS]

  perfect year to go you know when I have the the name of a big news agency behind [TS]

  me to get good meetings and that kind of stuff but also work for a site that [TS]

  doesn't turn out you know hundreds of of stories today so I won't have to file an [TS]

  article every half an hour that sounds like the way to do it yes can be great [TS]

  it's a perennial topic it's like my my second week of January topic every year [TS]

  on this show is why I thought last year I should maybe go to see one of these [TS]

  years I gotta go and I didn't do it this year [TS]

  yeah I think that was us last year graduated I do it every year I have them [TS]

  thought well I'll let you know how it is and it's it's it's one of those things [TS]

  where my natural inclination towards procrastination is just fails because [TS]

  it's really can't do it at last what you could do it at the last minute but it [TS]

  was super expensive yeah and it's kind of annoying like they make you book your [TS]

  hotels through their centralized system in the flights are expensive are sold [TS]

  out so even you know not when I booked a month and a half hour was still kind of [TS]

  annoying but yeah there's a ton of people from New York so yes I got think [TS]

  if you lived in you know Joe random city like I bet philadelphia's biggest fight [TS]

  probably aren't that different that week [TS]

  people from here they go but I tells ya can't wait to hear your report now and I [TS]

  told you think that's the way to do it is to do it as a publication that has a [TS]

  measured tone not a bombardment of we gotta have 30 post today and you know [TS]

  yeah that's what I was talking to someone from a large consumer [TS]

  electronics company the other day and they like so you coming to our press [TS]

  conference you come into who are media day and I'm like nope I'm not even [TS]

  getting there until Tuesday after all that crap has already happened so we do [TS]

  it yet so no waiting in line for you know stupid wherever they're gonna show [TS]

  big big TVs and home automation stuff probably had no idea that's a good [TS]

  question I wonder what the big thing will be TV's are always I think my sense [TS]

  yeah I mean TVs but my sense is that this is the year that all the connected [TS]

  home stuff starts to jail so you know home automation stuff and refrigerators [TS]

  that talk to your pet about watches watches gonna be huge [TS]

  oh yeah watching us too because a and Apple watchers side and right where is [TS]

  out it's a real thing and it's already starting to accelerate where there you [TS]

  know like when they first announced it back it and I O in June there were two [TS]

  watches and they both really cranky they sucked then the motor 360 or as I call [TS]

  the 270 and now there's been a trickle of watches that are dead you know that [TS]

  seem reasonable they seem like something that people might want to consider yeah [TS]

  we'll see that that'll be interesting I've gotten a few pitches on like a [TS]

  shirt that have sensors built in so you can measure your heart rate through your [TS]

  shirt so we'll see about that because the other thing that makes it has to be [TS]

  watches is then going back to Applewhite without a watch and we're clearly not [TS]

  gonna hear anything new about [TS]

  what's before say yes right and probably not during either unless they do one of [TS]

  those silly Apple leak type things were ok but that means any consumer [TS]

  electronics company that wants to bet on smart watches because you know right [TS]

  betting on what Apple is interested in is pretty good way forward [TS]

  they're going to want to get that stuff out before as soon as they can write to [TS]

  each piece chance to show off their slate St bombers last came over right [TS]

  sweet yeah I have a little bit of follow-up from previous episodes of this [TS]

  of this broadcast Star Wars follow up a little bit of Star Wars follow have to [TS]

  go back to the Merlin episode was $99.99 for episode two go so we talked about [TS]

  Roman numerals in the Super Bowl and then in a subsequent week followed up [TS]

  that they are the NFL is indeed dropping the Roman numerals for not this year's [TS]

  Super Bowl next year's 50 which would have been just tell and it looks stupid [TS]

  so they're just going to put Super Bowl 50 and I was happy about the end up [TS]

  they're only doing that for Super Bowl 50 because I look so stupid [TS]

  starting with Super Bowl 51 going back to the stupid Roman numerals so bad news [TS]

  on the Roman numeral [TS]

  Star Wars and I don't follow up on Star Wars otherwise I really funny that from [TS]

  Stephen Colbert defending the new set lightsaber oh nice operate in the show [TS]

  but it was really really funny what do you think of it [TS]

  well I don't really know much about Star Wars I know I'm sorry although I saw my [TS]

  first exposure so I don't know my dad showed me Caddyshack and those types of [TS]

  movies instead so we really has a poor household not a not a beatles household [TS]

  so but the first time ever saw Star Wars was when they re-released them in the [TS]

  mid-nineties probably the biggest screen that existed in Chicago at that point it [TS]

  at this movie theater downtown called McClurg Court was like you know five [TS]

  times bigger than any other movie screen so that was kinda cool and we saw those [TS]

  and i've seen that and still never seen jet I am bad I need to do this that's [TS]

  crazy I thought I get it now anyway I can say but I I thought the new light [TS]

  saber looks fine that's cool you don't have an opinion you know it's just that [TS]

  can have no opinion either bit of this is really unusual but why not let's be [TS]

  his last week's episode whiskas we were talking about Bond movies and and I [TS]

  brought up that the last and be one on Her Majesty's Secret Service David under [TS]

  the impression that it was universally everybody hated it everybody news [TS]

  mistake and it turns out I am correct on this that it's very divisive most people [TS]

  seem not to like it and agree it was a dud but there's a fairly sizable [TS]

  contingent upon movie fans who who think it's our favorite or one of their [TS]

  favorites one of the better ones and [TS]

  and have not seen that one is it what is polarizing about it [TS]

  well I think it's I think it's a weird story I think I think lies in bees take [TS]

  on the character was off I just I just don't buy them as other people think [TS]

  he's great though it's it's you know he's definitely not sean connery that's [TS]

  for sure and I don't know about the story the way the stories written that I [TS]

  just think it died but some people really like the the direction some [TS]

  people think the action sequences are are some of the best of that era and I [TS]

  think I should hunt and in the earlier movies he was the editor of the movies [TS]

  and he got to direct this one and some people think that that helped make the [TS]

  action sequences better because he knew how to shoot them to give the editing [TS]

  the footage that they would need you know that in editors perspective on [TS]

  directing makes for better action sequences from Chris Holt every drunk [TS]

  Redhawk I don't but I am aware of it and I appreciate its existence of God he's [TS]

  he's a big fan he didn't think he wrote about all the bunnies he really liked [TS]

  anyway friend of the show [TS]

  nations' I think he's at nations' on Twitter great guy who works at black [TS]

  pixel really smart guy longtime friend of the show long time during fireball [TS]

  reader I mean like back in 2002 the skypes enemy typos and stuff like that [TS]

  great guy I said it was his favorite Bond movie and in fact he directed at me [TS]

  on Twitter said it is in the top six is a fan of the movie but he would not he [TS]

  would not call it his favorite and I wouldn't want somebody in such a way so [TS]

  it's clear the record for that last thing which has made a mistake [TS]

  the Chris Cornell song I forget the name of it but it was the theme of it was not [TS]

  the theme of quantum solace that was the theme for Casino Royale and I was tired [TS]

  or something let it slide I didn't catch you take that the team for Quantum of [TS]

  Solace was the jack white one which is kinda hard for a while though I got old [TS]

  ones you have seen James Bond oh yeah I've been watching the old ones I you [TS]

  know I started seeing all the nuances that come out and I never to know once [TS]

  and then after you and and started doing the shows I started watching them and [TS]

  actually you know as you know they're so annoying to stream so it had to end up [TS]

  buying a bunch of them but yeah i dont them this streaming rights on those [TS]

  boundaries are the craziest thing in the world like it somebody tweeted me the [TS]

  other day that a bunch of the connery wonder back on Netflix but they're not [TS]

  all of their own I think a punchline HBO Go which is where I watched one recently [TS]

  but not all of them not all of them and not the ones I wanted to watch wow ok [TS]

  yeah I who knows but those negotiations alike but you just think though that it [TS]

  would be like a blanket deal they all want company [TS]

  all except for never say never again which is entirely separate long story [TS]

  but all the other Bond movies are from Eon Productions beyond the grave the [TS]

  abbreviation everything or nothing so it's just bizarre I must just be [TS]

  that you know that in which conglomerate owns those Sony or one of those who [TS]

  won't MGM and are now being crazy it very well have more fun I think it's one [TS]

  of those things like its big like a piece of butter toast is always going [TS]

  well and faced down its like whatever Bond movie you're in the mood to watch [TS]

  it all he's not gonna be available for free on netbooks totally actually when I [TS]

  just take a break right here and do the first sponsor and I will get started on [TS]

  and it's a brand new sponsor I'm very very excited about this [TS]

  called hullo hu lol 000 used to say hello to the Rings movies have you ever [TS]

  tried a buckwheat whole hello every damn now well I never even heard of such a [TS]

  thing but popular for centuries throughout Asia buckwheat pillows [TS]

  conform to your body and provide cool comfortable support hello suit every [TS]

  person sleeping style side sleeper back sleeper stomach sleeper how low can be [TS]

  adjusted to conform perfectly to the shape of your head and neck providing [TS]

  ideal support that's just for you I'm usually a back sleeper I just sleep [TS]

  sometimes I C you know how we got air flows freely through clothes buckwheat [TS]

  whole bill keeping it cool long adjust the thickness to your personal [TS]

  preference by adding or removing the holes anytime it made in the USA with [TS]

  quality construction materials and improves on traditional buckwheat [TS]

  pillows by incorporating only the highest quality materials 3 shrunken [TS]

  durable twill cotton case high-quality dunlap hidden zipper and the buckwheat [TS]

  whole Phil is grown and milled in North Dakota [TS]

  chemical organically friendly environmentally friendly I should say [TS]

  organic product no chemical based phones or bird feathers hundred-percent [TS]

  unbleached certified organic cotton these guys sent me one of these are [TS]

  actually two so we could both try these out and I opened it up and I thought [TS]

  that they were out of their minds because it seemed as though I it's like [TS]

  a pillow stuffed full of coffee beans and it's it is definitely not like a [TS]

  normal pillow it is entirely different it's not like oh wow that's weird led to [TS]

  a full of holes buckwheat holes would you like a pillow doesn't feel like a [TS]

  very heavy much heavier and it makes a crinkly sent that only has a sound like [TS]

  you're sleeping on it like a setback for coffee beans figured I'd try it out and [TS]

  that was like two weeks ago and I've still got it on my bed pretty cool [TS]

  every day I wake up every morning I still think it was wild but I like it [TS]

  it's definitely gives me a better night's sleep with a regular not at all [TS]

  like memory phone if i dont i dont care for the memory foam pillows may seem [TS]

  like a weird way they can put your head this thing the conforming to your head [TS]

  it's not it's not at all like a phone or anything like that just like sleeping [TS]

  bag of beans I don't know nature yeah so here's the deal sounds crazy seems like [TS]

  a weird thing you'd buy off podcast but here's their deal you try it for 60 [TS]

  nights and if you're not satisfied they will give you a full refund no questions [TS]

  asked [TS]

  so you can do this [TS]

  the small under 49 bucks standard 79 king-size 129 so there are cheap but you [TS]

  can save money I need additional one you can save five ten or twenty on each [TS]

  additional 18 you buy and its sixty days no risk no questions asked money back so [TS]

  if you got any curiosity and I think it sounds crazy Gruber says it works just [TS]

  go try it sign up by the thing and if you don't like it just send it back to [TS]

  him for free you have to pay a damn thing so try it here we go to find out [TS]

  more hello hello each you lol 000000 W dot com slash talk show just / talk show [TS]

  in the last bit 1 percent of all of their profits are contributed to the [TS]

  nature conservancy so my thanks to hello pillow government trying to really crazy [TS]

  in the box [TS]

  sounds cool yeah and we're loading free for sale on a talk about I want to talk [TS]

  about these things [TS]

  send you the link was article by Eric Jackson writing at Fortune it was Ford's [TS]

  its forms and as a former forbes employee we love it when you confuse [TS]

  firms and Fortune I know what I just did it the other day with there is a story [TS]

  by a fortune writer and I are situated at ford's it really is as simple as in [TS]

  my mind they're both business magazines and they start or are and that's it that [TS]

  way just remember that fortune is the boring one it's like the index in my [TS]

  mind the hashing index it only has like three letters yeah those are [TS]

  anyway about this earlier in the year two and then I politely rebutted it but [TS]

  his point is he he wants to see Apple use their massive cash reserves to make [TS]

  big acquisitions and my take earlier in the year was more or less he was saying [TS]

  just do something with which seems to me ill advised like it seems to me like [TS]

  he's articulated in the viewpoint that Apple has to do something with this [TS]

  money and you know I just disagree I think doing just doing something for the [TS]

  sake of doing something is going to hit a follower be disposed of it was at the [TS]

  very end of the month for Thanksgiving and a summarized I would say he's he [TS]

  thinks that the what they are doing with their money with the stock buybacks [TS]

  which is i think most things about seventy percent of what they're doing [TS]

  and then the dividends internal pain are a waste of money and they did they're [TS]

  not really that the the stock rise that we've seen since Apple's instituted this [TS]

  would have happened anyway just because Apple's financials are doing better and [TS]

  the vague they're not going to be able to survive without Steve Jobs fear that [TS]

  might have been depressing the stock is gone nobody really seems to think that [TS]

  they're in bad hands under Tim Cook's leadership anymore which i think [TS]

  everybody would agree with that so what he thinks they should do even if he [TS]

  doesn't think they should have done that and what he thinks they should do and [TS]

  how is he indeed is dead serious matters he thinks they should by Tesla which he [TS]

  thinks will cost about forty five billion Twitter which would be about [TS]

  forty billion by Pinterest for fifteen billion then spend ten billion better [TS]

  batteries through R&D and spend ten billion to make iCloud work properly so [TS]

  what [TS]

  when hitting about the cell and this also happens so I also published a story [TS]

  today Friday called you know whatever 10 things I learned about Apple this year [TS]

  on courts and one of the copy of one of the things I touched on is was a little [TS]

  commentary about Apple's you know basically doing their first big by ever [TS]

  this year which was Beats Audio beats music and her Beats Electronics or [TS]

  whatever it's called which was three billion dollars which is not forty [TS]

  billion but it's still pretty big and you know with the context of people over [TS]

  the years saying Apple should by all these companies [TS]

  the one that's been thrown about a lot actually in years past was Adobe that [TS]

  Apple should buy adobe so that it owns the you know professional desktop [TS]

  software market and if one of the articles I found while researching this [TS]

  was during fireball 14 May 2008 why Apple won't buy adobe and I think the [TS]

  the post he wrote here if you could if you want to do a find and replace with [TS]

  with almost every company on that list [TS]

  you know you could pretty much pasted in there you know and and you also made a [TS]

  you've also written about you know why Apple buying Tesla wouldn't necessarily [TS]

  be the craziest thing because it kind of fits fits the model a little bit of what [TS]

  they do but you know if you look at at Pinterest and Twitter and Tesla first of [TS]

  all you can't buy three companies that bigger the same time and that's even [TS]

  possible for logistical or regulatory standpoint like imagine if you announce [TS]

  a hundred billion dollars and acquisitions in a week I my guess is [TS]

  that the government would say yeah very funny ok now we're gonna make you wait [TS]

  for two years while we sift through all this stuff yet there's let's let's go [TS]

  beyond that and yeah let's put that aside for now but in particular for [TS]

  example I think that trying to acquire Twitter and Pinterest simultaneously [TS]

  would definitely be [TS]

  very complicated getting approval much more complicated than buying one of them [TS]

  or the other [TS]

  more than twice as complicated because it would be seen as you know anti [TS]

  competitive because in some ways Pinterest is it social network and [TS]

  therefore it competes with Twitter but beyond that even if you had like you [TS]

  know even if all that stuff was was totally doable then your Apple ID you [TS]

  have to integrate Pinterest and Twitter into your company and you know first of [TS]

  all how and second of all why like what do you know what do you do at that and [TS]

  it just seems to me like that is not what Tim Cook needs to be doing right [TS]

  now [TS]

  you know twitter is not gonna change Apple in a way that would make it you [TS]

  know solve all the problems I think there are there are much much bigger [TS]

  problems that Apple that have nothing to do with spending cash to acquire new [TS]

  companies that have some relation to you know potential future businesses for [TS]

  apple or something like that I am the Y is the bigger question than the house [TS]

  because the easiest answer to how would be to acquire them and kind of let them [TS]

  run independently but then you know you mean like there how to me has it why [TS]

  though it is the first question which by the way is is harder than it sounds [TS]

  because the people who made Pinterest and Twitter by the people who made [TS]

  Pinterest what it is don't necessarily want to keep making it under the [TS]

  ownership of a bigger company so this is a very common problem anyway the wise is [TS]

  ultimately more interesting because I don't see how Twitter or focus on [TS]

  Twitter but only owning Twitter to me doesn't help Apple do anything that [TS]

  Apple already does there's no that it solves nothing you know that in terms of [TS]

  Apple's core businesses which is really selling computing hardware and now an [TS]

  array of form factors traditional PCs and laptops [TS]

  tablets and off course cell phones and coming soon [TS]

  the watch which are all computers that's really no fun to me as well as they make [TS]

  computers and the way that they succeed is by making computers that are the best [TS]

  in the world as perceived by a significant number of people who are [TS]

  therefore willing to pay a premium for them to me that Apple in a nutshell and [TS]

  there's almost nothing that the company does that matters that isn't in service [TS]

  that which is why it has all this cash to spend in the first place so for [TS]

  example yeah exactly and that's how I got so for example the whole thing of [TS]

  items isn't at first at least it like a one level of indirection has nothing to [TS]

  do with selling computers but I think like two levels of indirection it does [TS]

  because one type of computer and that's no longer really a significant part of [TS]

  the company's business but one type of computer is iPods computers that are [TS]

  computing devices that are meant as portable music and video players and [TS]

  sell those it really really helped I would say it was essential to make it [TS]

  easy to buy content for them therefore it that way [TS]

  iTunes exists I think you're selling I chose a little short I mean edit speak [TS]

  of utility in the early two thousands like it was way easier to use than [TS]

  winning or something like that for managing a music library and and ripping [TS]

  CDs and that sort of stuff and then you know arguably more importantly it became [TS]

  the the home of sync sinking your devices two-year to each other to your [TS]

  iPod and eventually your iPhone to Mac which you know that's a that's a really [TS]

  great place to be if you can I was a Michael Gartenberg I think once tweeted [TS]

  something if you own sink you own everything yeah I don't know something [TS]

  like [TS]

  you know and that's what I cloud is supposed to do right now so i tunes [TS]

  actually price so lot of Max I would say yeah I don't mean to sell it short but [TS]

  it's all in service of selling into selling Mac selling iPod selling phones [TS]

  you know definitely it that they had the infrastructure in place both the cloud [TS]

  infrastructure of having the store and cloud servers that could send content [TS]

  over and can do [TS]

  activation member you have to activate your phone through iTunes and the [TS]

  desktop software which was on hundreds of millions of Macs and Windows PCs it [TS]

  let them ship the iPhone sooner than they would have been able to otherwise [TS]

  if they didn't have it in place because for years you know three or four more [TS]

  years before I cloud really became an independent thing you've really you know [TS]

  they needed it to have the you know just for things like software update they [TS]

  didn't have the infrastructure in place to do over the air software updates to [TS]

  the iPhone and so if they wanted to do what they definitely wanted to do which [TS]

  was controlled the software updates to the phone as opposed to the carrier they [TS]

  needed items work so I'm not trying to sound short I'm just say no it wasn't [TS]

  service of that fundamental business of selling the best computing devices yet [TS]

  and now that of course the acquisition estate would say well now Apple should [TS]

  buy Spotify because that's the future iTunes so why does an apple just spend [TS]

  the cash it has by Spotify that's it not that I would not disagree with I don't [TS]

  think they have to buy Spotify I don't think they have to buy rather than build [TS]

  their own streaming music solution but if if the news came out you know after [TS]

  we you and I get off this show and the news comes out late on Friday that Apple [TS]

  isn't you know made an offer to buy Spotify I wouldn't be surprised at all [TS]

  with you [TS]

  well I was just making fun of it so maybe I don't think about it [TS]

  now it was aight well I might be surprised I wouldn't be shocked [TS]

  wouldn't seem out of character in the same way that beats pete was definitely [TS]

  surprised but it you know it doesn't seem totally out of character right and [TS]

  Spotify like it has it seems to have survived long enough to actually be [TS]

  something important [TS]

  on its own both in terms of usage and kind of a community and the product it's [TS]

  built so yeah that wouldn't you know it I don't know if I guess the questions I [TS]

  okay does that then there's always dork questions like does that become the [TS]

  iTunes App I don't know the answer to that and I don't know that even matters [TS]

  but yeah I think that like something like that which you know the question [TS]

  for all these deals would be like if even if Apple shut all the Android users [TS]

  off of these products in the planet and I made them I Apple only does that make [TS]

  the Apple product that much better that people would buy that instead of [TS]

  something else [TS]

  no outcry if they bought Twitter and made it Apple only it would you know the [TS]

  outcry would be phenomenal I mean it would lose most of its users I would [TS]

  guess the majority some majority of Twitter users are you know using devices [TS]

  or at least one device that's not an Apple product just wouldn't even you [TS]

  know I don't know why would you buy a car window or the web even just the web [TS]

  it just you know and then what would be the point it's just it almost seems like [TS]

  to me buying Twitter would just be that it would be a sign that Apple sees [TS]

  itself now as I could you know like like Berkshire Hathaway yeah by companies and [TS]

  their like a medic company on top of them right and I'm not liking an expert [TS]

  in in kind of financial tricks in that kind of stuff but someone explain to me [TS]

  by back Saturday as you know if you have this money and you think that the the [TS]

  best investment you can make it in yourself if you think that [TS]

  Apple shares are gonna go up then that's probably the best investment you can [TS]

  make it just you know by our own shares instead of buying shares in something [TS]

  else yet I've read that too that's that's very close to Warren Buffett's [TS]

  Berkshire Hathaway Warren Buffett's advice and take on buybacks is that it's [TS]

  you know it's like most of his docking by then again I'm no expert but you know [TS]

  it's as simple as that [TS]

  that if you if you think you said if you think that your stock is underpriced [TS]

  then it's you know it's a good buy at a good to good use of your money that he [TS]

  actually does help your shareholders and inflate the value of the company and who [TS]

  better than the leadership of Apple 22 have accent as to whether they think [TS]

  that their stock is underpriced right right I mean this is again an area where [TS]

  I'm not an expert but you know finance reporters that i've talked to have said [TS]

  that Tim Cook has actually done a really good job at converting apple from being [TS]

  a fast growth growth growth growth company to more of a blue-chip where yet [TS]

  have a dividend and buy back its shares and you know does things with its cash [TS]

  that a growth company probably wouldn't do but that into you know big [TS]

  institutional investors really respect the way that Tim Cook is done that [TS]

  yeah and ATS I do I i i as an outside observer who who follows up on those [TS]

  leads from the product and design side not the business side you know I [TS]

  completely agree with that and it does feel like like the stock has settled [TS]

  because the market as a whole has accepted that transition that they're [TS]

  not looking for I don't see people trying to to figure out ways to make [TS]

  watch and iPhone sized business in any near-term future you know it seems like [TS]

  expectations are reasonable [TS]

  whereas like two years ago I feel like if they denounced watch the watch then [TS]

  expectations would have been 22 while because people you know [TS]

  business writers people looking at it from a financial perspective we're [TS]

  asking how can Apple keep growing at this crazy rate that they've grown the [TS]

  last seven years especially having seen the first couple years of the iPad come [TS]

  out right out the gate super strong and look like maybe that was it right and [TS]

  look like oh wow this is gonna be as big as the iPhone right away and then you [TS]

  know ok here comes to watch now it's got to be that big too and I'm guilty as [TS]

  charged on a front I i've I'm on the record as speculated I didn't pick a [TS]

  year but I i'm was on the record as saying that I thought iPad would be a [TS]

  bigger business than iPhone soon meaning you know by now and clearly that was [TS]

  wrong it's not it's settled in far lower its actually growth in stopped that I [TS]

  disagree with this dog forever but you know for about a year and maybe even [TS]

  longer right can you count the court four of the last six quarters it's [TS]

  actually shrunk year over year so this year it will almost certainly be smaller [TS]

  than it was last year not even just strong growth but actually where the [TS]

  trailer hitch whereas iPhone which is holders is still continues to grow right [TS]

  never had a stronger launched in the head with the this year's models and of [TS]

  course the iPod has been shrinking for several years and you know until very [TS]

  recently was still a line on laughable business so you know it's it's perfectly [TS]

  reasonable for things to eventually declined but I don't think anyone would [TS]

  have expected that the iPad iPad iPad would be in its decline already and you [TS]

  know it's probably not permanent I don't think that tablets are you know where [TS]

  we're a fad now I don't think so I think what it was [TS]

  I've been thinking about this and i know this is a little bit of an aside on on [TS]

  this game let spendable money but [TS]

  no one gonna spend his money in a minute so yeah yeah if we you know we didn't [TS]

  have a long digression it wouldn't really be I might my gut feeling on the [TS]

  iPad sales starring is that in the early years where it was growing in and this [TS]

  is what made me think it's gonna be bigger than iPhone is in the first two [TS]

  years of iPad it's like iPad year one was bigger than iPhones your one and [TS]

  iPad year to is bigger than iPhones your to it never was bigger than iPhone but [TS]

  it was bigger than the iPhone in 27 28 29 you know in years 12 30 and then it [TS]

  fell behind the curve and I think it's because the two markets are entirely [TS]

  different the phone market is literally every person on the planet who can [TS]

  afford a phone that's where we're headed is that however many billion people [TS]

  there on the planet if they are in a you know country you know and you have you [TS]

  know hundred bucks and you can afford some monthly service charge you're gonna [TS]

  have a cell phone if you don't already and it's so it's an enormous market it's [TS]

  almost capped by the number of people on the plane and I think the market for [TS]

  tablets is really a submarket of the PC market I think what it is is is that [TS]

  it's it's really just part I think the iPad is best seen as part of the PC [TS]

  market and what what happened in the early years is that the market was [TS]

  vastly underserved by PCs portable PCs that are simpler more portable and get [TS]

  way better battery life like the things that made the iPad the iPad [TS]

  that it just it just sucked all the air out of the growth in laptop sales [TS]

  including the MacBooks for a while that the iPad style of laptop portable [TS]

  computing is just way better for so many use cases than than laptops are and that [TS]

  it had go-go growth while it fulfilled that unmet need and then it just reached [TS]

  the point where you know everybody who didn't really wanted one got one and [TS]

  they still work you know and that there's no then the second factor is [TS]

  that iPads continued to 34 year old iPad continue to work just great from his [TS]

  people's needs and so they don't replace them every two years like they do so [TS]

  that smile but my digression and iPad our growth decline yeah I think that's [TS]

  right you know I'm not sure you know this is this is like an example where [TS]

  it's tempting to use your own personal example but I don't know how well you [TS]

  know so I still using an iPad one every day to watch video on my house but we're [TS]

  about to have to replace it because time warner cable is finally ending support [TS]

  for the their app iOS 5 or whatever it runs so maybe maybe Apple ask them to do [TS]

  that so that we would buy a new iPad [TS]

  my dad has an iPad 1 tell and technology but he swears he does not want a newer [TS]

  one had just find it in perfect shape but now candy crush doesn't run yeah it [TS]

  is like crashes at a certain point and I'm sure to be you know I said I [TS]

  probably just the type of bug that slips in because they don't test on the iPad [TS]

  and now they're gonna get complained about it in the next update but you just [TS]

  have to wait for them to update it yeah [TS]

  iPad 1 it the iPad one is sort of an exception to cause there's a lot of [TS]

  things that have dropped support for iPad 1 right but iPad 2 is effectively [TS]

  still on the market it's because it's like the guts of that cheap other many [TS]

  non-threatening many as effectively and iPad 2 and half the cash registers at [TS]

  coffee shops of America so yeah like if anything the opposite problem with iPad [TS]

  2 developers are gonna be saddled with supporting that level of you know CPU [TS]

  and RAM [TS]

  gonna be years and I you know I think the fact that there's a lot of people [TS]

  really complain about the fact that they're still selling that because it's [TS]

  you know it's holding back that level of baselines port you know where you really [TS]

  only have to support X number of years of iPhones going back [TS]

  iPad is sort of stretching that a lot further because they're keeping that [TS]

  iPad 2 level of of device around but on the other hand I think it's a sign that [TS]

  in the real world millions of people that's good enough [TS]

  totally in you know I think that maybe I just got a little ahead of itself like [TS]

  people were ever on bada tablet and then some people but two or three because [TS]

  they were you know getting better or coming in at smaller sizes and that kind [TS]

  of stuff and now you know combine that with the probably longer much longer [TS]

  replacement cycle than a cell phone and a smaller market now we're seeing the [TS]

  results of that and you know maybe in a year to as people grow tired or or as [TS]

  their current iPads become less useful to replace them I think a lot of it is [TS]

  on Apple to and you know I don't want to repeat a million people who've talked [TS]

  about this but is it really on Apple now to to further define what the iPad is [TS]

  for [TS]

  and I think that they're starting to do that yeah I expected to grow sort of [TS]

  like the way the Mac as you know like slowly but surely if they can keep if [TS]

  they can keep it ahead of you know the market which is central I mean there's a [TS]

  lot of times when I talk and make the assumption that Apple's going to [TS]

  continue thriving and and sometimes critics of you know my writing or just [TS]

  you know readers who with critic crips thinking critically will will point out [TS]

  in and assume that it's some kind of bias there that I think Apple is magic [TS]

  and that they you know magically just no matter what they do they're going to [TS]

  succeed it's all based on the fundamental assumption that they can [TS]

  keep doing what they've been doing for close to twenty years which is making [TS]

  superior products whether everybody agrees that their superior not you know [TS]

  some number of people have seen their devices is superior in significant ways [TS]

  and that's assuming they can keep doing that I think they can keep trying you [TS]

  know there's there is an assumption there but I think it's gonna grow like [TS]

  the Mac where the Mac has done great US few years and it's growing in an overall [TS]

  shrinking market but it's very slow growth compared to the iPhone yes I did [TS]

  not mean an end this print this and I'm gonna say ok now you're Tim Cook with a [TS]

  hundred billion dollars how do you spend it to keep making those products grade [TS]

  and I don't it's not buying Twitter and Pinterest I think it's you know and I [TS]

  wrote this in my piece today like what what would be ideal that they could if [TS]

  they had a year where they could just focus on making iOS and Mac OS and all [TS]

  their software better that's not feasible but if they could increase [TS]

  their engineering organization so that there were enough people to a building [TS]

  new stuff they want to build and be keep refining the old stuff that that would [TS]

  be a good use of money obviously it's hard to hire engineers and they're [TS]

  having open up new offices and other places to do that kind of thing but [TS]

  that's right like to see Apple spend their money right and then there's the [TS]

  whole mythical man month factor where you can't even if you can get [TS]

  more good engineers you can't solve individual projects problems just by [TS]

  throwing more engineers at them true more engineers would definitely help I [TS]

  don't think there's a single company in technology today that's not doesn't real [TS]

  talent starved I really don't I mean I think it's I think it's universal Google [TS]

  Apple Microsoft Twitter any of those companies my Facebook and healers [TS]

  companies know everything I've seen is that the the recruiting market is as [TS]

  important as tenacious or more tenacious than it's ever been but it's not about [TS]

  throwing more people at the same projects it having more people to spread [TS]

  and you know the size of a team is not going to grow but it's being able to [TS]

  have more teams yet right so maybe Apple should buy one of those coding schools [TS]

  they go now I just you know and I've been watching you know when using Apple [TS]

  products for twenty-five years now more and you know nothing was ever perfect [TS]

  but it does certainly feel now like there are some holes in their products I [TS]

  use every day where you know nothing is really really bad but it's it could be [TS]

  better to be its rights to Littleton yeah I think and that they've you know [TS]

  and maybe that's a good thing maybe in the grand scheme of things if you can't [TS]

  achieve perfection and you you know and let's just assume you know it's human [TS]

  nature that nobody's perfect it's a little better to err on the side going [TS]

  too fast and err on the side of going too slow [TS]

  totally right that you want to be on that too fast side and not too slow side [TS]

  and you know I think what we've seen in the last year is that Apple's being a [TS]

  little too fast as their little too far away from that optimal you know things [TS]

  like all the continuity features and stuff like that most of them were crazy [TS]

  but there are none of them feel quite to me [TS]

  like perfect one thing that did has definitely changed my daily computing is [TS]

  especially between phone and Mac in you know in the house is downstairs and get [TS]

  more coffee and I'll take my phone out and see something and now I'm on [TS]

  LinkedIn enduring fireball and I used to do something like send it to pin board [TS]

  and come up to my Mac and load pinboard and do that now I use airdrop I airdrop [TS]

  to myself everyday multiple times and usually it's perfect [TS]

  HEDIS a share their my other device shows up on air drop by tap it in a [TS]

  second or two later it's there and then i dont have like an extra bookmark on [TS]

  pinboard they really didn't want there permanently to do something with you [TS]

  know there's no you know I don't you call it [TS]

  digital detritus leftover it's great but then there sometimes we're on the right [TS]

  there next to my Mac with my phone and I go to air drop in my Mac just doesn't [TS]

  show up I have in turn Bluetooth off or anything like that just doesn't show up [TS]

  in this is my experience as well and it's it's frustrating [TS]

  frustrating because I don't know why it's not working you know and then it [TS]

  seems like I'm not in my own contacts file or something like that so I have to [TS]

  change the airdrop settings to share with everyone and not just contacts but [TS]

  it should know I'm me because you know I'm the same I don't know how it knows [TS]

  I'm me or not some people right that it really doesn't work well for them at all [TS]

  for me I would say works at least 95% of the time I'm like in the twenty five [TS]

  percent range maybe I just need to let loose with a permissions and let it [TS]

  share with everyone but even trust trying to sync with my own Mac or with [TS]

  you know my wife's iPhone where we're definitely in each other's contact vials [TS]

  it still never wants to to find them when we want to use it [TS]

  another example i mean it's not a new 2014 thing it's actually a little bit [TS]

  older but don't get me started on my experience with iTunes [TS]

  match which it's just I don't know I so white had it turned onto and we got our [TS]

  new iPhones couple months ago and and it's like she was just passed she came [TS]

  back from the gym the one day and she at one point she had the new phone and she [TS]

  had all of her music and it was on the phone [TS]

  territory thing with a new phone she would have checked before she went to [TS]

  the gym the first time to listen to music she had it she listened to music [TS]

  and then like the next day she got to the gym and her phone had no songs 0 [TS]

  just no songs are just gone that's yeah well I just did something immensely [TS]

  stupid which was nice I put a new hard drive in my iMac and try to start from [TS]

  scratch but my itunes of course through iTunes Match already had all this that [TS]

  metadata from my songs in its own set of trying to download them all from Apple [TS]

  servers I drop the music folder on top of the iTunes icon in the dock to you [TS]

  know real you know theoretically we associate all those song files with him [TS]

  with the app and then it duplicated everything in the listings and shit now [TS]

  I have two copies of every song and have to figure out how to go through and an [TS]

  unduplicated and I tweeted something to that extent and people like me you know [TS]

  that and then you know it's so funny I came back the next day and it had [TS]

  totally fixed itself was duplicated so I have no idea how that worked but write [TS]

  some of these features are supposed to be there like like airdrop I don't even [TS]

  know quite how I know it's some combination of Bluetooth WiFi you know [TS]

  that there's like invisible wi-fi networks that don't show up as WiFi [TS]

  networks but its encapsulating a lot of complexity to make all the handshaking [TS]

  and then presented itself in a very simple interface but it's gotta be [TS]

  bulletproof gotta be that if I'm [TS]

  devices are clearly within range of each other and they're both on [TS]

  it should be you know it should be every bit as consistent as when you open the [TS]

  finder and you go to your home folder that your home folder has all of your [TS]

  stuff in it right every time you go to the finder and you go to your home [TS]

  folder you know the connection between OS 10 and the files on your hard drive [TS]

  is 200% consistent you know airdrops gotta get that could write like magic [TS]

  and that's you know and that's right rather see Apple interests in you know [TS]

  kind of perfecting that I'm sure it's tricky you know bluetooth for years [TS]

  seemed like it was just a joke of a technology and it seems to have gotten [TS]

  better and more recently [TS]

  definitely gotten better battery life with low energy is aptly named it's you [TS]

  know I used to never keep Bluetooth I turned it off I the only thing I really [TS]

  could have used it for what we have speakers that Bluetooth but I didn't use [TS]

  them and Mike are you can connect it to the cars cost but it was such a hassle [TS]

  to remember to turn Bluetooth off before I got the car that I never did and if I [TS]

  left it on which I always would if I did remember to turn it on it would forget [TS]

  to turn it off and i got out of the car and I feel like geez I didn't use my [TS]

  phone for a while why the battery life travelers cos I do too but it doesn't [TS]

  you know now it just seems so you can leave bluetooth on your phone and it's [TS]

  you know it's good I would say the biggest thing that Apple could do with [TS]

  the cash that they have is focusing on ways that give them competitive edges [TS]

  that can't be matched by anyone else or bias few other companies as possible [TS]

  because I think that's the key to their success for you know for twenty years is [TS]

  that they've had design jobs that couldn't be matched and arguably still [TS]

  aren't right and but the focus on more and more of those things I think that [TS]

  the whole safire tobacco in Arizona was an attempted that yes and they buy it [TS]

  I think that you know the idea was that they were going to work out a deal with [TS]

  a company that I remember but yeah well you know they worked out a deal where [TS]

  they were going to you know supply the capital to create an unheard-of number [TS]

  of sapphire furnaces and they would have the right to buy is you know you know [TS]

  all of the South fire that the facility produced which if it worked or if they [TS]

  can somehow salvage this and it does eventually work they'll have something [TS]

  that nobody else will have nobody else you know samp Samsung won't be able to [TS]

  make a phone you know in in in quantity with the Sapphire display because there [TS]

  won't be anywhere in the world by them i think is a perfect example of the sort [TS]

  of thing that Apple should be doing with its money yet and it is something that I [TS]

  can do now that it couldn't do in the old days before they had this giant [TS]

  massive sum of cash you know in 2002 2003 Appleton have the ability to spend [TS]

  ten or twenty billion dollars on x because they don't have ten or twenty [TS]

  billion dollars sitting in a bank right now and instead they they famously like [TS]

  negotiated just crazy great terms on deals with suppliers and the flash or [TS]

  whatever right there in a position to bankroll the creation of an entire new [TS]

  basically industry I mean this by the way the company is called GTE advanced [TS]

  technologies and the staff that I found crazy is that Apple already is using [TS]

  one-fourth of the entire world supply of sapphire just for the iPhone camera lens [TS]

  and fingerprint reader and I was a wall street journal so they've already [TS]

  promised that the top two tiers of Apple watcher gonna doubtfire covered displays [TS]

  right so that's a crazy amount of of the market that they already control for [TS]

  these two tiny components granted on hundreds of millions of products but you [TS]

  can imagine now take those hundreds of millions of iPhones and multiply the [TS]

  Sapphire by [TS]

  twenty or something like that and you were literally are creating an entire [TS]

  new market and that's what you can do it when you have a hundred billion dollars [TS]

  secondary digression is under sapphire and one of the things I've been thinking [TS]

  about lately is one of the things that come out of the court filings with the [TS]

  bankruptcy of GTP advanced technology is that we now know what we suspected all [TS]

  along but we know for sure now that at some point Apple had hoped to use a fire [TS]

  in this year's new iPhones for the displays not just for the camera back [TS]

  there if everything had gone perfectly or at least according to plan or [TS]

  something some measure like that Apple iPhone 6 in six-plus would have fired [TS]

  this place and they don't which makes me wonder how much whether they're there [TS]

  now the fact that GTE advanced failed whether they're in trouble now with the [TS]

  Sapphire displays for watches and not that they would have to change it could [TS]

  have already promised that I would be shocked if they switched to class for [TS]

  the addition in the stainless but I'm wondering if we might not see one of [TS]

  those apple launches where midnight everybody's madly clicking and you know [TS]

  by like 1215 easterner to go on sale Pacific I don't know but you know [TS]

  fifteen minutes after the pre-orders go online [TS]

  people are already seeing quotes of four to six weeks and the next day you're [TS]

  already seeing you know six seven weeks you know estimated delivery necessarily [TS]

  because it's so many people buying them but because it's the the Sapphire if if [TS]

  they were banking on gt2 advanced technology the Sapphire might be a [TS]

  significant constraint just in in supply and maybe even in price so although I at [TS]

  this point in price the money and make the watches I have no idea [TS]

  yeah but I'm not to cook so yeah exactly I think that this is the sort of thing [TS]

  though that Tim Cook [TS]

  is the best in the world that so far but the other thing I thought that I'm [TS]

  probably wrong about that that the Sapphire will be significant gating [TS]

  issue on production is that they're gonna need a lot less a fire for Apple [TS]

  watch then they would have the phones because the phones are you know where I [TS]

  don't know but I'm not make up a number and say fifty million yeah and figure [TS]

  maybe thirty to forty million of those are iPhone 6 is something could be has [TS]

  to say at least 30 million iPhones sixes which are bigger and in the case of 6 +1 [TS]

  whole lot bigger than the watch whereas the watch you know nobody knows how many [TS]

  gonna sell but especially in the more expensive stainless in addition levels [TS]

  are not thirty million in its border and it's not a five inch display and are not [TS]

  going to be told how many sold no true yeah so that's that's a great example [TS]

  and other one which they did do is test flight I mean I think that's that's a [TS]

  that's the sort of thing that day that they actually probably know they should [TS]

  have done sooner and probably were just being snobby about it you know why why [TS]

  are all these developers using testify when they should be using our built-in [TS]

  drag-and-drop email attachments app testing system so you know any time you [TS]

  see a bunch of of app developers jumping onto a third party to like that like [TS]

  just pick it up I mean yeah you know they've certainly try to build a few of [TS]

  them like Cloud kit which I haven't used is very similar to parse which I do use [TS]

  which Facebook owns you know that's the kind of thing that you know they should [TS]

  just keep an eye out for that kind of stuff [TS]

  and none of those are billion dollar deals are all much smaller I think [TS]

  manufacturing in general [TS]

  deal and I can't help but wonder if there's another purely hypothetical but [TS]

  we know that they're building like the Mac Pros in the USSR assembling them and [TS]

  if they have grand plans to shift more and more of their assembly to the united [TS]

  states if they do I my guess would be that it would be more along the lines of [TS]

  robotic izing the assembly line is if you ever look like this you know [TS]

  surprise it was surprising to me like we first started getting behind the scene [TS]

  looks at Foxconn health under assembled and I Petters embolden how much of it is [TS]

  done by hand by just people at a bench you know putting you know putting these [TS]

  pieces together I think if they brought that to the United States to make it [TS]

  cost-effective it would probably not be like a bonanza of manufacturing jobs it [TS]

  would probably be about figure out a way to monetize sampling and then they could [TS]

  bring it internally and they have these robotic size assembly lines that no one [TS]

  else in the world would have right like Foxconn gains the ability to do acts [TS]

  than anybody who usess Foxconn gets the ability to do X Foxconn itself to I'm [TS]

  say exactly which is a little surprised they have not been more competitive [TS]

  already right and for example just look at the Nokia tablet that looks like I've [TS]

  had many look alike and it's every you know drilled aluminum all this stuff [TS]

  it's really like a relabeled Foxconn product at a Foxconn tablet that Nokia's [TS]

  putting their name on where do you think Foxconn learning tablet looks like that [TS]

  well he learned it from Apple you know I don't think it sent you know incident [TS]

  that Samsung which makes [TS]

  know a lot of components and until recently made all the CPUs for iPhone [TS]

  and iPad [TS]

  you know got better at making cell phones after the you know worked with a [TS]

  plan that I wouldn't be surprised to see that that would be an interesting way [TS]

  for Apple to spend money and I think gtgt advanced deal was a sign of that [TS]

  it's not just about materials but maybe assembly in general but maybe for some [TS]

  reason there are like why did why did they do the whole thing would be to [TS]

  advance instead of apple just making making in owning their own safire [TS]

  fairness I don't know for some reason they seemed resistant to they want to [TS]

  decrease the risk you know and then looked at the the court filings on the [TS]

  terms like boy did they ever decrease the risk like it's crazy how basically [TS]

  Apple has complete control over everything and you know GTE basically [TS]

  can't do anything and she teases a court filing was kind of pathetic as they've [TS]

  they've made this is offer that was horribly unbalanced and everybody was [TS]

  really mean you know they even there is even a phrase with a you know quoted a [TS]

  guy that in a phone call that guy from Apple told them to put your big boy [TS]

  pants yeah it was dismissive but my take on it is it wasn't like GTA events had [TS]

  to say yes to this they agreed to all rights it's sort of like unsaid in their [TS]

  filings is well of course we said yes because if it worked out look at how [TS]

  much money we would have made totally right [TS]

  yeah meanwhile there's a fifty million dollar NDA penalty yeah that was an [TS]

  interesting thing that came out of it and it was got worse like for subsequent [TS]

  ones that's grabbed one day I noticed and if you look at the list of suppliers [TS]

  and stuff that we know about Apple watch it's a it's a different list then that [TS]

  makes five iPhone and iPad just like the component makers it's coming from a lot [TS]

  of different companies and can't help but think that because Apple is [TS]

  dissatisfied with their manufacturing partners for those things because of [TS]

  rampant leaks and could be yeah in a way that you know competing products into BB [TS]

  banking on their innovations so I think that the one thing they could do with [TS]

  their resources now try to make those try to make those things you know [TS]

  something that I think you know an interesting example of that already I [TS]

  would say are the a series systems on a chip which it's like they've turned the [TS]

  whole we use different CPUs then the standard components that everybody else [TS]

  does things on its head in the old days when Apple was on the Motorola 68000 [TS]

  chips and later power PC chips and the Wintel industry was on x86 Apple was [TS]

  selling lesser quantities and they could never heard the quantities were never [TS]

  enough to keep up right there is no way for Motorola and IBM partners are making [TS]

  power PC chips to really sustain the advances that were necessary to keep up [TS]

  with Intel because the numbers just weren't there and Apple couldn't have no [TS]

  resources to do it on her own [TS]

  whereas now by making you know these wildly popular massively selling devices [TS]

  they're using these chips they're they're getting the economy of scale [TS]

  advantages with their a five Series 678 and by all accounts you know I get in on [TS]

  Tekken those places faster and far more power-efficient chips then the [TS]

  snapdragons that everybody else in the you know they're not sharing nobody else [TS]

  gets to make the phone with these amazing systems-on-chip how can they do [TS]

  more things like that [TS]

  yeah and and so there's a hardware element to that then there's the [TS]

  software element and I think a lot of people in a services element to i mean [TS]

  what can you know I keep going back to iCloud and I'm trying to think like [TS]

  bigger picture is is iCloud a success so far [TS]

  are and there's you know there's a lot of griping about little things here and [TS]

  there I think it is sort of a success I mean you know it backs up my phone every [TS]

  night and I don't even think about it it seems like they they're trying to do [TS]

  more with it but that's the kind of thing where you know that could easily [TS]

  be a huge advantage over over everyone else like you know just back people [TS]

  stuff you know make sharing super easy that's going to be hard to be it should [TS]

  be it should get better they should key I think it is I think it quietly getting [TS]

  a lot better I think that there at the problems around the edges but it's never [TS]

  going to be a sustaining advantage as a lock-in advantage were once you're there [TS]

  in your backups are already there it's a lot easier to just buy an iPhone and a [TS]

  backup restore to the new iPhone than it is to switch to Android but it's not [TS]

  really that big of a competitive advantage because Google stuff is so [TS]

  good at those things that your Gmail and Google Calendar and Google Hangouts a [TS]

  really good but I don't know if Google Drive is really catching on like that so [TS]

  anyway I think that there is a better chance I think that cloud stuff in [TS]

  general the best they can hope for is to be as good as the state of the art right [TS]

  now I think a lot of that actually a lot of people saying that they should by all [TS]

  these companies are saying oh they'll learn how to be better at the cloud if [TS]

  they own Twitter or Pinterest or something like that and I mean there was [TS]

  a point where I used to think that I don't think that would help right now no [TS]

  I don't know I don't think that the problem is fundamental [TS]

  just generic loud I think the problem is just specific problems [TS]

  yeah I'm interested him saying that they should buy Pinterest Pinterest is a good [TS]

  company and are doing interesting things but it's doesn't make any again does [TS]

  seem the same thing with Twitter I just don't see how that gives Apple any [TS]

  advantage in what they do you know if they think that you know Pinterest is a [TS]

  good investment today it would make far more sense for like rayburn capital you [TS]

  know the secret of Nevada company that [TS]

  controls Apple's investments [TS]

  some of the stuff they do do you know with the cash you know it makes sense [TS]

  for Braeburn [TS]

  by stocking interest and just you know you know they don't make money on it but [TS]

  rather than have Apple by them in and control yet well next time I talk to em [TS]

  next time you talk to mgs came running Apple benchers instead of working Google [TS]

  Ventures what he be doing with a hundred bill yeah we take a break here and thank [TS]

  our second sponsor of the show are very good friends at Squarespace you guys [TS]

  know it's gross basis it's the all in one place to build and host your website [TS]

  what kind of website any website you can use Squarespace blog you can you square [TS]

  space to create a US tour with built-in commerce have to pay extra for it's just [TS]

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  to choose from [TS]

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  and drop right there on the site itself couldn't be easier it's it's the way [TS]

  like when people said the web [TS]

  the problem with the web originally as conceived back in the nineties was that [TS]

  it wasn't editable in itself that's a good basis for space is editable web or [TS]

  you're just there and if your your site you just added anything you want right [TS]

  there in place super super easy no technical knowledge whatsoever is [TS]

  necessary but if you do have technical knowledge I know a lot of people listen [TS]

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  pages you can change templates and stuff like that [TS]

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  his check out Squarespace and see for yourself when you sign up you can get a [TS]

  free trial no credit card necessary go to Squarespace dot com slash the talk [TS]

  show and then when you do pay your free trials up here like man this is just as [TS]

  awesome as as river said it was gonna buy it just make sure to use this code [TS]

  Jay gee that's my initials and you'll get 10% and show your support for the [TS]

  talk show my thanks to Squarespace talk about 20 well something I want to talk [TS]

  to you about [TS]

  for a while and that's the idea of institutional taste and I think this [TS]

  might be a grouper term I'm not sure but I've been thinking about it and you know [TS]

  as i've been kind of taking a look at companies this year and writing about [TS]

  the McCourts and I'm curious like you know about a bunch of things but I guess [TS]

  first haha how do you define institutional taste I would say cultural [TS]

  value like a shared cultural value that you see things the same way and you [TS]

  value things the same way one of the points are a recurring theme in my work [TS]

  in recent years is the idea that it's not just what your priorities are your [TS]

  top three priorities but it matters what order those top three priorities and [TS]

  matters which one you can say that you value you know good just pic material [TS]

  you use the shape and the weight without a value value wait they value battery [TS]

  life they value elegance they value how it feels [TS]

  but it's clear that a ball institutionally values then this and [TS]

  wait more than a value battery life because otherwise they you know they've [TS]

  here's here's my old iPhone four right here by my desk which is you know I [TS]

  think when it came out was billed as being the world's thinnest from and if [TS]

  it wasn't it was pretty darn close her tits couple years ago so you know if [TS]

  they valued battery more than thinness I think that today's iPhone sixes would be [TS]

  maybe not as thick as the iPhone 4 but they'd be thicker than they are [TS]

  and they would have used that techniques to put more battery in there it just [TS]

  matters what you know which order those priorities are not that they don't care [TS]

  about battery life but they obviously value than this weight above that I [TS]

  think institutional taste that's just a sign of it and it it propagates that its [TS]

  people who share those values and that tastes that are drawn to work at the [TS]

  company and the Company recruit people who share those guys and then you know [TS]

  it sustains itself I think it tends to [TS]

  and obviously like this is something that Apple excels at you know whether [TS]

  whether we can really define it or not a really explain everything that applies [TS]

  to this is kind of a pro Apple argument to be made [TS]

  are there other companies you see that that you think have good institutional [TS]

  taste I know we can name a bunch they have bad you know historically have had [TS]

  bad taste are there others that do you think have good taste I think Google [TS]

  clearly does and I think that's why they have as rabid fans as Apple does but [TS]

  that they tend to be different people you know most people who truly say they [TS]

  love Google either about apple or that mixed feelings about Apple probably [TS]

  mixed feelings is more common with a probably do use the MacBook a lot of [TS]

  them used MacBooks but that they feel more affinity for Google but Google's [TS]

  good taste is in things like simplicity and minimalism I mean I think the fact [TS]

  that if you just go to and what you see on that page here in 2014 [TS]

  is so close to what you saw back in you know 2002 whenever you know when Google [TS]

  is a beta at Stanford where it's just a box and two buttons and you know i mean [TS]

  minimal crap they've added there [TS]

  and and for all you know we complain about Google advertising it today the [TS]

  day still resisted the urge to really put advertising on that home page that [TS]

  they still only showing results match what they charge for just one add you [TS]

  know something like the deck [TS]

  you know just one thing up in the corner on that page imagine what they could [TS]

  charge and they don't and it's you know I think it's a sign of Google's taste [TS]

  you think so I'll just us out there I think that historically a company with [TS]

  with bad taste has been Microsoft which shows in everything from their kind of [TS]

  visual design to you know the awkwardness of their stage presentations [TS]

  to product decisions now that concept but I've actually been surprisingly I [TS]

  guess surprised at how even little things like their file format like when [TS]

  you read how when somebody's backward engineered an old version of war in [TS]

  other word doc docx file its so it's just horrible it's nobody would design a [TS]

  file format like that and had taste yeah I don't know if it was satire but like [TS]

  the Microsoft Bob logos pretty much like emblematic of Microsoft seems like it's [TS]

  getting a little better I don't know maybe you know they're making some smart [TS]

  decisions now can taste be taught or changed or is it in any sort of [TS]

  timeframe that would matter or is that the kind of thing that's kind of too [TS]

  deeply ingrained in a company that to change I think you have to go through [TS]

  some sort of stressful transition to change and I think that's what we're [TS]

  seeing with Microsoft think you know [TS]

  and it's even bubbled up to the point where you know not the bomb I don't but [TS]

  he was pretty close it's about as close as you can get to forcing out a CEO of a [TS]

  wildly profitable major corporation right i mean an end without any sort of [TS]

  impropriety or anything like that nobody accused unabomber of any kind of you [TS]

  know just going propriety or crimes or anything of the sort it was really [TS]

  honestly I think it really eventually his lack of taste caught up with him and [TS]

  the market had moved on right and so I think microsoft is going through that [TS]

  sort of transition and we definitely see it I think I mean its windows you know [TS]

  the new version of Windows on the surface is you know it's absolutely [TS]

  positively not copy of iOS and it's good I I don't think I would prefer that I [TS]

  really don't know it's been a long time in a couple years since I tried living [TS]

  with Windows Phone but I don't think it's to my liking but it certainly is [TS]

  certain it wherever it ranks in the world of design right now it certainly [TS]

  shows a taste that Microsoft never had any old yeah and and and at the same [TS]

  time we've gone from a company that used to say you know why would anyone buy [TS]

  their kids and iPod to hey we've got office for iPad and why would anyone buy [TS]

  their kids an iPod or whatever right to now there's office for iPad [TS]

  and integrating Dropbox into PowerPoint and you know this kind of stuff and it [TS]

  seems really maybe it's maybe it's too short a time frame [TS]

  juice I'm a little excited about what I see there I would go so far as to tie a [TS]

  tie it together with the first half of the show and say that it's actually not [TS]

  even so much about taste but that Microsoft is institutionally backing [TS]

  away from the view that they can do it all themselves and that they should do [TS]

  it all themselves like the Microsoft at its peak of industry dominance did [TS]

  everything other than the hardware and they know and they really kind of [TS]

  defined PC hardware you know in a way that without making any peace without [TS]

  making any PCs themselves they had enormous influence on it but they [TS]

  literally did everything they wrote their own operating system they broke [TS]

  all of the major apps for that our operating system they had their own [TS]

  developer tools they had their own debentures sharp their own developer in [TS]

  Visual Basic their own languages they went their own way and a route that is [TS]

  just unprecedented you know then that nobody else has ever really tried to do [TS]

  again and in this right time with the first half of the show is to me that [TS]

  warning sign for Apple biggest canary in the coal mine as we you know how it is [TS]

  Apple they're going to be looking for this eve apples may be starting to lose [TS]

  their edge are signs of hubris right I think that's the word that Microsoft and [TS]

  that that that the today's Microsoft doesn't have that anymore and all those [TS]

  things you just listed [TS]

  you know where their advertising the iOS ABS there [TS]

  integrating with Dropbox I just like any other day this week we're now that you [TS]

  can do they have a thing where they're running on Google's cloud service oh [TS]

  yeah right you can run exchange and [TS]

  you know run Windows servers and Google's cloud all of those things are [TS]

  signs that they now they're they're they're off of that you know Microsoft [TS]

  only all the way down the stack and I guess we should also disclosed they've [TS]

  also sponsored your podcast and you're a yeah yeah yeah you know totally exactly [TS]

  two good point now absolutely yeah and the fact that azor and all the windows [TS]

  of their all their cloud-based services are absolutely positively not designed [TS]

  as cloud services for Microsoft client devices they are designed as cloud [TS]

  what's the word agnostic yeah you know they're just they're just good cloud [TS]

  services yes I'm very interested to see what what some of the most unabomber e [TS]

  Microsoft stuff what happens to that like those those stores that were kind [TS]

  of crappy rip-offs of Apple stores you know what happens to those now that kind [TS]

  of stuff but we'll see it's you know it's only been two less than a year so [TS]

  company has been bad institutional taste is Amazon oh yeah oh yeah totally I [TS]

  think that's what that's exactly what inspired me to ask you about this was [TS]

  thinking about that that that found my phone oh yeah did you use one now I [TS]

  haven't yet I haven't either but Boyd the reviews were bad and now that it's [TS]

  been on the market for a while and I've seen a little bit more like random a few [TS]

  random people who just pick one up on a lark it's it's even worse like the [TS]

  things I've seen from people who aren't like gadget reviewers from the merger [TS]

  would ever say people who view lot of phones where the fire phone was in my [TS]

  opinion very poorly reviewed general but the just real people who don't do it who [TS]

  just bought it to see what it's like really just scorched [TS]

  its patent every way that's funny because I like Amazon as a service like [TS]

  I try spend more money on Amazon than any other place besides my you know [TS]

  whoever owns my apartment building but just they've never had a good looking [TS]

  website all their hardware stuff just screams out you know either we're just [TS]

  doing this to do it or we don't really care that much about how good it is to [TS]

  use you know the scathing reviews of the Kindle the newest Kindle saying you know [TS]

  look this is supposed to be at the top end e-reader in the world why don't you [TS]

  treat it like that they've never had good page turning on a Kindle ever yeah [TS]

  it's the most astounding thing in all of consumer electronics that and it's not a [TS]

  standing at the first one or the second one or maybe even the third one didn't [TS]

  have great page-turning but it's a standing me that it really has never [TS]

  gotten you know just edited we better year after year and at this point after [TS]

  you know I seven or eight years on the market that they don't have paid turning [TS]

  down is crazy or even like justifying the text you know forcing it to be fully [TS]

  you know the full width of the screen and are not letting you left justify it [TS]

  I just a few weeks ago it solved computational problem it's not easy but [TS]

  it's solved and they're even open source solutions to it [TS]

  attack the TV lowercase II capital acts typesetting system that Donald Knuth [TS]

  created you know back in the seventies there's an open a link to an academic [TS]

  paper that one of his students wrote in like nineteen eighty that just you know [TS]

  and it's not solve problems to do proper justification without unseemly gaps [TS]

  between words and with intelligent use of hibernation it's it's a small problem [TS]

  yet they don't do it [TS]

  yeah they don't you know they're fine selection is atrocious and indeed it's [TS]

  not like it's not like having good finds good line you know layout isn't a core [TS]

  part of what the device it's the whole point of the device [TS]

  it would be like if the iPod's didn't really have good music playback yeah [TS]

  although maybe some argue that they didn't but still you know if you're if [TS]

  you're trying to make the best reading device in the world which I guess [TS]

  they're not you know they would they would certainly act more like it or [TS]

  maybe they're doing the best they can which is the institutional taste comes [TS]

  in Asia said they don't the difference is that most people view a book as a [TS]

  string meaning you know you mean like in programming terms that it's right i [TS]

  string of texts and that if you review somebody's novel it doesn't really [TS]

  matter what no but I've never seen before and it just indicate when I've [TS]

  never seen a book review that includes a review of the layout of the book [TS]

  whereas if I reviewable guide I would I'd be tempted to do like to me I would [TS]

  certainly is clearly is not the main reason and I guess in general I would [TS]

  rather read an interesting well-written novel that poorly typed said then read a [TS]

  terrible novel that is beautifully types of course that's the different but then [TS]

  even me as somebody obsessed with typography would agree with that [TS]

  whereas with music nobody ever says I don't care for music sounds better you [TS]

  know the technical and fundamental to listening to music but as the person [TS]

  making the device it should be used that should be the obsession [TS]

  you know the people making candles lead at the top level of the design team [TS]

  should be people who are obsessed with good typography its criminal but I think [TS]

  it's a sign of Amazon institutional taste their priorities [TS]

  I think their nails it would take a moment here and thank our good friends [TS]

  at Harry's your regular listener the show you know what harry's makes they [TS]

  make high quality men's shaving products become an amazing packages they make [TS]

  their own blades they built their own razor blade factory or they bought a [TS]

  razor blade factory in Germany they make their own blades they've got great high [TS]

  quality handles shaving creams gels aftershave [TS]

  you name it if it is a shame product they make it and it's great quality at [TS]

  amazing prices compared to the mass market stuff you buy in drugstores [TS]

  really great stuff well look at the holidays and if you're listening to the [TS]

  show on or before December 17th they have a fantastic holiday offer for you [TS]

  use this code talk show holiday all one word talk show holiday that's not the [TS]

  regular code that someone just for this holiday offer what that code get use to [TS]

  get you five bucks off their winter winston that winter Winston said comes [TS]

  with a chrome handle three of their high quality blades and either they're [TS]

  shaving gel over the phone [TS]

  your choice it's already wrapped and you know how call their packaging is it is a [TS]

  fantastic gift you might never think to give gaming products as a gift you know [TS]

  regular Jalandhar crap like that carries though I think this would make a [TS]

  fantastic gift so go to Harry's dot com use this code talk show holiday and [TS]

  order the winner in Winterton save five bucks for anybody on your shopping list [TS]

  great deal great product great offer my thanks to Perry's last bit so less bet [TS]

  so let's let's take my Instagram which just announced three hundred million [TS]

  active users which is almost entirely likely more than Twitter has at this [TS]

  point [TS]

  twitter has not yet released their December quarter numbers and a little [TS]

  different as they do the quarterly average but if you look at the graphs [TS]

  though it's pretty clear that Instagram is growing faster and it's pretty [TS]

  amazing I think it's certainly the number-two and number-three out that I [TS]

  check after I wake up and it's it's kind of cool that you know even after [TS]

  Facebook bought them although that kind of maybe gives them an edge to other [TS]

  Facebook hasn't really integrated as much as it could have been growing so [TS]

  quickly I still feels like very much of its own thing I think it totally does I [TS]

  would say is somebody who doesn't use Facebook and therefore it was very [TS]

  specific reasons it just doesn't appeal to me when they bought Instagram I am a [TS]

  big fan of Instagram I was very worried and they said oh but we're not going to [TS]

  mess with it we're not going to Facebook I sit where did you let Kevin Systrom in [TS]

  his team you know we bought them cause we love what they're doing and we're [TS]

  gonna have them keep doing what they're doing and say I've heard that before it [TS]

  right you hear that every time there's a popular thing it required you hear it's [TS]

  not going to get we're not gonna mess it up and most of the time he gets messed [TS]

  up eventually and its I would save from the outside as an Instagram user it's [TS]

  completely true if you did if I didn't follow tech news I would have no idea [TS]

  that Instagram was bought by my facebook so I made a kind of jerky to eat the [TS]

  other day but one of the things that surprised me the most is you know you [TS]

  could say like oo they just kind of napping over there they've changed it so [TS]

  little that it almost could seem like its negligence now that I think that [TS]

  they should throw a bunch of features at it but there's a lot of little things [TS]

  that I think are still missing from Instagram that they were really actually [TS]

  make it better for example you know something as simple as be able to have [TS]

  multiple users in the apt so that you know i i kno woman who runs for [TS]

  Instagram accounts for three restaurants and her personal one in every time you [TS]

  want to switch accounts you literally have to sign out [TS]

  and then sign in with your username and password conceptually Instagram is very [TS]

  similar to Twitter its it in in comparing Twitter to Facebook is [TS]

  difficult because it's just different purposes [TS]

  very different design but fundamentally Instagram Twitter for pictures [TS]

  yep and combined with that instead of having replies you have comments on the [TS]

  picture and so it's like [TS]

  picture and so it's like [TS]

  Lee different ordered the pictures are still Twitter order newest at the top [TS]

  oldest at the bottom the only real conceptual difference in the mean time [TS]

  line is that comments go under the picture their commenting on as opposed [TS]

  to Twitter where the replies are all in a chronological stream as well yeah very [TS]

  very similar and so therefore I completely agree with you it makes every [TS]

  bit of sense that you can have multiple accounts and Instagram that it does in [TS]

  Twitter right and it's something like that where another one is like [TS]

  hyperlinks like you you can you can even Lake you know a comment which you can't [TS]

  put a link in a comment or or anywhere really which you know on one hand cuts [TS]

  down spam unite you don't have as much people spamming links on the other hand [TS]

  you see people like you know both humans and companies saying here's something we [TS]

  did to access it go to our bio and click the link in our body yeah that's that's [TS]

  cool that's a very it's a clever half but still it's like you know these are [TS]

  places where competitor could eventually catch catch hold another one a shopping [TS]

  like they're in now there in in the USSR company called spring and in Japan [TS]

  there's a company called origami that you know are basically Instagram with a [TS]

  BUY button attached to it and even just a hyperlink from Instagram would do so [TS]

  much to make services like that unnecessary and I wonder if it's [TS]

  Instagram just keeping things really simple because that's what work since [TS]

  really hard to argue with that you know you know they've done so well or if you [TS]

  know a little few little features like that could really have gone a long way [TS]

  yeah and if the if the hyperlinks work the way they do in almost all Twitter [TS]

  clients where instead of bouncing you out to a third party browser it opens a [TS]

  web you right there in the apt you're not even losing the engagement because [TS]

  when they close the web you they're probably gonna be right back where they [TS]

  were and Instagram so I don't think it's about like [TS]

  engagement Chapman right right can only guess that it's a spam [TS]

  but even then I feel like thats making us the users suffer for a problem that [TS]

  they're supposed to solve yeah right i mean imagine if Twitter said we're [TS]

  getting rid of all links because I mean just know you can't do that sorry yeah [TS]

  yeah I would think that the way that they would do it would be to follow [TS]

  Twitter's lead and do their own Tico think that's that's fundamental to [TS]

  Twitter's in tight I know that they do other things too in that you know they [TS]

  track all sorts of analytics through all the links that go through Twitter now [TS]

  that they're all redirected through TDOT Co but part of it too is it let some [TS]

  centralized spam and malware and write any kind of anything I I C span meaning [TS]

  anything that would that is like that and identify the user as a No [TS]

  yep turning out the light and you know I haven't been kicked out you know it's [TS]

  funny they're supposed to be another meeting in here right now [TS]

  email the person asked if I can use the room so they might show up angrily any [TS]

  minute now so decided he could sign off on a moment's notice I heard a loud [TS]

  clicking missing the garbage can with my seltzer sorry about that so another [TS]

  feature is the equivalent of the reblogged the re- Graham and I could [TS]

  totally see why they don't why they don't have that feature because you know [TS]

  that it's all your photos and it's it's more authentic and it's not a bunch of [TS]

  junk but other hand people are hacking net and there are apps that will let you [TS]

  you know do this re- Graham even a video with an overlay and that kind of stuff [TS]

  have you seen those now I haven't ok well I see if I know it's not even like [TS]

  five percent of the pictures in my feet and I'm sure if they're worried cramming [TS]

  be more than that but it's still interesting that that's the kind of [TS]

  thing we're pretty much every other stream based social network has added [TS]

  that feature you know whether it's tumblers reblog or on vine you can [TS]

  refine on Twitter you can retweet on Instagram [TS]

  you basically have to upload a photo I would almost say is the defining feature [TS]

  of tumblr yeah yeah probably yeah that's interesting and it's hard you have to NM [TS]

  from a phone you're kind of stuck as you can to save and Instagram to your local [TS]

  thing and pick it out and put it back in you've gotta do stuff like most [TS]

  screenshot screenshot and there are apps that do this it's like three gram or [TS]

  something like that and you know they're all insured decisions that they've made [TS]

  in that they seem to have just decided no fraud them and again it's really hard [TS]

  to argue with with them they've whatever they're doing is working so well that [TS]

  you almost can't argue that they could be doing better in the end they've made [TS]

  little changes like to explore screen is so much more interesting now that there [TS]

  are basing it on your friends and and yeah you follow so that's great that the [TS]

  image tools that they've built the you know not just the filters but the the [TS]

  different image tools are really really really good you know I also think that [TS]

  they have excellent notification controls because I easily and without [TS]

  any confusion set up Instagram so they're only notified when people who I [TS]

  follow do something of interest like I don't want notifications when any show [TS]

  on the internet [TS]

  favorite twenty my instagrams I only one ones you know i i get very few can you [TS]

  believe people leave that on pick up someone's phone sometimes in the forties [TS]

  I will not name names because I find it to be such curiously needy Peter but I [TS]

  do I have definitely seen people who have that turned on I look at see who [TS]

  you know who likes my photos that's I think that's one of the most interesting [TS]

  parts of that oh yeah but I don't know physicians don't know I i'm i'm not [TS]

  gotten care and I don't like look back at yesterday's thing and then open up [TS]

  the rest and see it but i dont notifications for it totally and then [TS]

  another one is that they don't have an iPad app [TS]

  yeah that's a huge crazy because it's actually my first serve people were like [TS]

  well I would you use Instagram on an iPad who's taking photos on an iPad well [TS]

  the answer is a lot of people take photos on an iPad and I look at a ton of [TS]

  Instagram on the iPad and it's actually gotten better sex it was really great on [TS]

  the iPhone six-plus and it's gotten a little better over the years as the two [TS]

  acts multiplication set up on the iPad has has gotten a little better but still [TS]

  like mine is it really isn't that hard to make an iPad maybe it is I don't know [TS]

  now not broad strokes not yet once you can be depending on how Europe was [TS]

  architected but if you're able to support the new iPhone 6 sizes then [TS]

  you're doing stuff that makes it really easy to do iPad 2 and fact it's so easy [TS]

  that with this whole size class and you know there was a huge huge point of [TS]

  emphasis at WWDC this year two huge part of Iowa see all of it clearly was you [TS]

  know about setting things up so that absurd ready for the iPhone 6 with the [TS]

  new to new sizes but it's so great an iPad app now is really almost almost [TS]

  like just creating another bigger I from size if you can do this six and success [TS]

  you can do the iPad and I say that even though Vestberg which does support the [TS]

  six and success don't have an iPad version but if we really wanted to drop [TS]

  everything else we're doing and do that it actually wouldn't be that much work [TS]

  and Marco even talked about that with overcast where he got it [TS]

  an actor you call it accidental version of an iPad version of overcast oh yeah [TS]

  member here because there was a bug where if you used a storyboard for your [TS]

  startup screen didn't matter if you also specified in your XML that hate me this [TS]

  app I'm I'm iphoneonly so if I'm running on an iPad 1 mean the iPhone that always [TS]

  had a bummer if you had that story board as your startup image it would say oh [TS]

  you're a modern nap so I'll run you as an iPad out and actually without him [TS]

  ever even intending it to trying it actually was usable so yes it there's [TS]

  this point it seems like there's no technical reason why Instagram should [TS]

  not have an iPad and then one more is the icon I mean you know every literally [TS]

  every app on my iPhone home screen has done something a little more I was [TS]

  inspired I can almost see I'm not an icon are artists but I can almost see [TS]

  what the flat Instagram icon would look like [TS]

  keep the colors keep the basic gimmick that it looks like a Polaroid and just [TS]

  flatten it right so is this you know that they're not not doing these things [TS]

  to spite people so I just wonder and I i guess I should probably a good [TS]

  journalist and ask and maybe I will but it still is is a frequent user is that [TS]

  has puzzled me over the years and yes she recently as you see that it is [TS]

  arguably the second or third most important social network in the world [TS]

  that you know and I totally am on the side of simplicity and saying no and all [TS]

  that stuff but yeah well I think that your your bucket list right there your [TS]

  checklist of what Instagram would should do is excellent because it does to me it [TS]

  doesn't add any complexity like supporting the iPad doesn't make using [TS]

  Instagram more complex it just makes it better you know [TS]

  yeah and and in addition I'll just throw this point in addition to the fact that [TS]

  you're right [TS]

  that a lot of people and Apple even admits it now that a lot of people use [TS]

  their iPad as a camera for producing iPad Instagram content but clearly photo [TS]

  photography is something that always looks better beer always so it would be [TS]

  better if you had both you know side-by-side will always be better to [TS]

  look at Instagram on the iPad I think when they eventually do I think they [TS]

  will write their gonna come out that I think when they do people are gonna be [TS]

  like wow this is amazing I can't believe that they didn't do this before [TS]

  totally alright so you're Kevin Systrom get on it [TS]

  understand like that as part of Facebook they've had to build out and advertising [TS]

  business and I find their ads to be totally finally they're not look at them [TS]

  and I see all that's kind of Jesus so that's an ad but I'm not mad that it's [TS]

  there and I know that they have to build business i'm happy that they're doing [TS]

  that and maybe that's why you know maybe they're waiting on adding hyperlinks [TS]

  until they have a commerce business of some sort but it just makes me maybe [TS]

  like them a little less I guess holding out for that you're only gonna get you [TS]

  only get links if you pay for it I don't know about this [TS]

  just don't know if that helps anyone either so why why Love Instagram and I'm [TS]

  not know not trying to be a jerk but I think one way that you can measure and I [TS]

  know that this monthly active viewers things like the industry standard [TS]

  numerically but actually like the way that you can do better way to measure [TS]

  social networks is when you're out in the real world and you look at like the [TS]

  menu at the restaurant or the window of the place we're gonna buy you know baked [TS]

  goods or something like that which I constantly have their right and it for a [TS]

  long time it was just Facebook and Twitter a lot of places I saw your [TS]

  YouTube yeah yeah yeah [TS]

  depending on you know sometimes you too but usually when it was Facebook and [TS]

  Twitter that pairing [TS]

  man I see Instagram everywhere now I don't know why I said I'll actually I'm [TS]

  gonna make an effort now that if I see Facebook and Twitter but don't see [TS]

  Instagram I'll take a picture of it and start collecting it and I'll bet I don't [TS]

  I bet I don't get many IC Instagram everywhere is clearly on par with [TS]

  Twitter in terms of that and I would even had time going back to Eric Jackson [TS]

  I do see the Pinterest logo a lot of more places now it's not as much as [TS]

  those as Facebook Twitter and Instagram but it's growing yet [TS]

  yeah I think so especially anything with a good visual component to it [TS]

  shopping food you know that sort of stuff I think you know not to get too [TS]

  deep on this back she think that companies make better instagramers then [TS]

  they make Twitter users I think that you know I follow a lot of restaurants and [TS]

  stores that I've been to vacations in that kind of thing on Instagram you know [TS]

  even even places I may never go back to just the kind of remember them that I [TS]

  would never follow on Twitter us on Twitter they're talking you know here [TS]

  our daily specials or something like that are here is a link to a story that [TS]

  we were mentioned in whereas on Instagram they're showing photos of [TS]

  their shop where their neighborhood of their products or of their customers and [TS]

  that kind of stuff actually a really interesting I followed the official [TS]

  Yankees account on Instagram and Twitter and on Twitter a lot of the time when [TS]

  they tweet my my finger starts covering towards the unfollow button and on [TS]

  Instagram it's almost always great it's like some kind of picture of you know [TS]

  either something going on in the current Yankee season and promise from a staff [TS]

  member with incredible access right like you know on the field at batting [TS]

  practice like a great angle of something [TS]

  or it's like a piece of history like history and and it always makes me smile [TS]

  like exactly why I wanted to follow them on Instagram whereas on Twitter that's [TS]

  has tags and shit yeah where you know and this is like maybe they close out [TS]

  you know having volumes yesterday was quoted I think in fortune saying I don't [TS]

  give a shit if Twitter has more users and Instagram which is put in by the [TS]

  wayside aside Evan Williams is working harder than everyone seems to be working [TS]

  is really done a great job with medium and yeah and I'm really impressed by [TS]

  that anyway but i think is right I think that Twitter and Instagram by comparing [TS]

  them because you have the same metric monthly active users sure that's that's [TS]

  fair but they really are different products [TS]

  yeah you know and and there's there's obviously bad blood because twitter [TS]

  probably could have and should have bought Instagram and Facebook should [TS]

  that kind of thing but yeah and I think in their buyers remorse over not having [TS]

  bought them that's why they bought fine and rain is you know I don't get a [TS]

  failure but it's not at that level yet but still exists but it's doing some [TS]

  interesting stuff but it's not Instagram nobody's putting fine logos on their [TS]

  restaurant I mean I'm [TS]

  joke but it's in really good sign of real world you know awareness I I'll [TS]

  take another thing I noticed about Instagram is I when I go to like pouring [TS]

  like a Yankee game or something like that I see people taking Instagram's in [TS]

  using Instagram more on their found more than I see them [TS]

  tweeting joining hear something funny is that while we've been taping this [TS]

  podcast about 20 people I work with have stopped by this conference room and [TS]

  taking pictures of me through the glass and I and I bet they're gonna wind up on [TS]

  Instagram and not on Twitter if you see it together [TS]

  very strange like you know the first couple as I have very funny and like 10 [TS]

  people have taken pictures but anyway the point is like Twitter and Instagram [TS]

  I would not really the same thing I mean is like breaking news from the from the [TS]

  fronts in the war fronts in in Ferguson although I guess Instagram you know [TS]

  people are posting photos and that kind of stuff but Twitter's like the global [TS]

  pulse of information and Instagram is you know look how cool my life is that [TS]

  kind of thing so yeah look at this [TS]

  yeah I look at this thing look at where I hear anything [TS]

  instagram has destroyed something like Foursquare more than it more than it has [TS]

  really affected Twitter and Twitter [TS]

  problems are its own problems you know there there are so many things that [TS]

  Twitter needs to figure out but competing with Instagram I don't think [TS]

  is the answer [TS]

  and being upset that you know or or people trying to make them look small [TS]

  because instagram has more users I don't think that has anything to do with it [TS]

  yeah I guess it's the same concept it's just you pick a list of people or [TS]

  certain companies and you'll see a chronological stream of what they post [TS]

  same concept as Twitter but in practice because of the differences in what it is [TS]

  you know photos versus text it is having a very different purpose and this fact [TS]

  what you just said is actually kind of interesting because it's almost like [TS]

  Instagram is a better fulfillment of Twitter's original idea of its purpose [TS]

  the what am i doing right now right it used to be like was not what was the [TS]

  original prompt for Twitter in a few oh I don't know what you know what are you [TS]

  doing what's going on maybe that's what it is now you know when people used to [TS]

  treat you like at at at the dentist or something like that yeah nobody would [TS]

  tweet that anymore right nobody's going to tweet at the dentist just those words [TS]

  but Steve Wozniak well but I have definitely see like when I see like [TS]

  friends I see friends who take like [TS]

  a first-person perspective of their feet in the dentist's chair yeah you know [TS]

  he's you know you no problem yet totally in effect today you know you don't mind [TS]

  if you can compose it artistically now I said this week that when that news hit [TS]

  when the news broke and again like you said I don't think it's any kind of bad [TS]

  news for Twitter that Instagram's bigger just it's just an interesting sign it [TS]

  just you know and doesn't mean that they're even more valuable than Twitter [TS]

  it's just interesting but I do think though that they're part of their [TS]

  success is that they've kept that simplicity and and and there's like they [TS]

  know the people running Instagram in designing it and keeping it they know [TS]

  exactly what it is and they get whereas to me part of Twitter's problem in [TS]

  recent years is that the people running Twitter don't seem to get what Twitter [TS]

  is there just seems to me they seemed lost and I think part of it is that they [TS]

  have this ambition to be as big as Facebook and I think the problem is is [TS]

  that what Twitter is good for is fundamentally never going to be as big [TS]

  as profitable as what Facebook and so it can you live with that you know why not [TS]

  if you could still profitable yeah I think that's a great way of putting it [TS]

  like like if you make I don't know toaster ovens and you find out that the [TS]

  toaster oven business is not as profitable as the automobile industry [TS]

  should you start making cars no I don't you know just keep making good toaster [TS]

  ovens if you know and just let it be let it be the business that is you know and [TS]

  i just think that Twitter is so obsessed with Facebook that they've lost their [TS]

  way to leadership level yea or or why don't know if it's a 90 day if they [TS]

  think that way internally I think that the outside perspective especially among [TS]

  the investor community is a well why isn't Twitter becoming as big as well my [TS]

  my my evidence that I think that there's [TS]

  that they do internally as the way that first person first person first party [TS]

  Twitter clients meaning if you go to you used the Twitter app [TS]

  that your timeline is now has is no longer just the simple chronological [TS]

  order here the people you follow in their tweets you know that there's all [TS]

  sorts of other stuff that's injected in there [TS]

  yeah but I don't think that stems from trying to be more like Facebook I think [TS]

  that is trying to solve the problem that most people have a shitty timeline [TS]

  because they don't follow enough people they signed up for Twitter they may be [TS]

  some may be followed auto follow this people that are suggested to them but [TS]

  getting people to keep following more Twitter accounts is kind of a central to [TS]

  building a really great time line I love my timeline I also follow 3,300 people [TS]

  you know and I even run out of stuff to read so how do you automatically like [TS]

  reinstall a really great time line for someone that's based on what they like [TS]

  and that's i think thats what they're trying to get out with this stuff and [TS]

  what I would like to see from Twitter is exactly this like pre-installed hit like [TS]

  if you could go to the homepage and say show me [TS]

  soccer Twitter right now booming i'm following a thousand accounts that have [TS]

  people are talking about really great soccer or let me see tech media Twitter [TS]

  you know around an Apple event or something like that yeah and don't be as [TS]

  simplistic as a hashtag right like what they've gotten as if you use the exact [TS]

  right hash tag you can do it but only if all the tweets are using the hashtag [TS]

  whereas it seems that you know Google Google web search seems distant proof [TS]

  that you can build something where you could just say soccer and just get a [TS]

  figure out like here's some great soccer cleats to fall so I think that's what [TS]

  they're trying to get out and you know as is typical for Twitter the worst [TS]

  thing they have they ever do is explain themselves so they've done a typically [TS]

  poor job explaining why they're doing any of this stuff [TS]

  and you know and now with new with yet another product leader who knows what [TS]

  they're going to keep working on what they're not gonna keep doing although I [TS]

  will say the new guy in charge of product kevin has been there forever and [TS]

  you know if there's anyone I as a user trust to not be a hoser it's him so it's [TS]

  alright can't beat that damn from her thank you very much for your time and [TS]

  where can people find out more from Dan Frommer follow me on Twitter from down [TS]

  or on Instagram if you wanna see a cute dog photos I guess yeah those are the [TS]

  best places to follow me know right now I'm writing it courts which is QZ dot [TS]

  com but you'll find all the best it from the link from linking to the court stuff [TS]

  everything everything I do you know wherever it is [TS]

  owners yea and they're getting rid of all the spam accounts so we'll see how [TS]

  many spam followers I have end up I was not following you on Instagram yeah it's [TS]

  like hey look at me I'm in tokyo but so what [TS]

  you know I think they have with us for yeah I like it [TS]

  yeah she didn't and now right now I know looking at the picture you have some [TS]

  really great stories and working on from Tok that I was reporting in Tokyo it'll [TS]

  be publishing over the next few weeks I did two already 11 was you did you see [TS]

  that new OK Go Video yes the one with the double shot from a drone yeah yeah [TS]

  so I went to so I wasn't Tokyo I think now three weeks ago maybe some like that [TS]

  so e-mail Honda and said hey can I can I ride one of those things and so I got to [TS]

  meet the guy who invented it [TS]

  and right around one of those little scooters their call the unique club and [TS]

  that was awesome I was super fun [TS]

  so if you if you search I don't even know how you would find this I should [TS]

  put a link on my website to these stories sooner than later and other [TS]

  thing is Toshiba like like most japanese old Japanese tech companies is [TS]

  struggling with growth so they took an old floppy disk factory in the suburbs [TS]

  of Tokyo and turned it into a clean room indoor let us farm so I heard that and [TS]

  posted a bunch of photos of that now is super cool I had to put on a kind of a [TS]

  half bunny suit and sterilize my camera and it was awesome it's a great shot [TS]

  yes so that stuff is on my Instagram I guess actually it is and you can't link [TS]

  through to the stories links because they're not listening to Dan from [TS]

  whatever [TS]