The Talk Show

108: ‘Malaprops’, With Guest Ben Thompson


  what time you got what you got eleven o'clock 12:21 a.m. you series is going [TS]

  alright ya know I have done to science I took a shower then I way down for a [TS]

  minute now in their drink coffee and then I will calm myself down with couple [TS]

  of years in the AM station and I'm good [TS]

  door about it okay although although we had we had we had a nice like home [TS]

  Korean BBQ at the house place of course since she's like my mother was a huge [TS]

  whiskey fan so she always has really good stuff but I i women in myself 22 [TS]

  ass to a single a single-serving sell your muon I do that has the price to pay [TS]

  to be a guess I forgot I have you set up I have Taipei set up in my today view I [TS]

  could I didn't even ask you a time was I could have just opened today my world [TS]

  clock I guess that that there's enough about today I think the problem is that [TS]

  I usually I really only open that thing up for its kinda weird to have that be [TS]

  today and notifications like I understand why they grouped together [TS]

  that way but I think in practice it's weird because it's one or the other is [TS]

  always two steps away is that one step away [TS]

  yeah yeah I agree I I don't know why I never click on today either i'm looking [TS]

  like it actually took me a couple seconds to remember what you were [TS]

  talking about he said today its obligations only and I don't know that [TS]

  guess that's kind of true on both OS's although I was talking about the Mac OS [TS]

  but kinda chillin both OS's where I've always got it on notifications today [TS]

  yeah now it's way it's interesting because you could almost see that as [TS]

  being being a shift to rate in almost everything is is more responsive in real [TS]

  time whereas today that's like a plan and I don't maybe we're hardly [TS]

  authorities to talk about [TS]

  having a set schedule and marching through days though probably letters [TS]

  they have seen some people who wanted who requested they wish that there was a [TS]

  way to make at least on the Mac I think only makes sense that they could make [TS]

  that persisted and like just say take those two inches on the radar screen in [TS]

  just always make it today and you know I got a big 30 inch iMac here's something [TS]

  you know big Thunderbolt Display I don't need the whole screen for this just [TS]

  treat my screen is what the left and give me that today view over there so it [TS]

  Gallagher permanent agenda not only I I did something similar to that win arm [TS]

  Lakewood was a Microsoft Windows 8 and you could mix like the regular desktop [TS]

  and then like Windows 8 apps in like a like a slave runs on the screen and so I [TS]

  put my calendar there for that exact reason it was it worked out perfectly [TS]

  and then I just had a quick view is going on [TS]

  people have done that people have done that virtually or in a mismatch of [TS]

  digital and analog for as long as they've been using computers in the [TS]

  office if you think about like sticky note on the side of my own Oh totally [TS]

  totally it is I think that's what that something that's what was that were you [TS]

  talking to this like theirs they couldn't get new accessories like an [TS]

  iPad we can actually like have it as a secondary display or whatever to me [TS]

  either though the group I guess if you have a nap in your desk is just the [TS]

  editor of you have therefore your calendar and stuff like that i mean it's [TS]

  yeah I didn't think that I know it when I don't forget the name of the thing [TS]

  you're talking about but I know exactly what youre talking about and I've been [TS]

  looking at I've been thinking about trying that out but I am I wouldn't use [TS]

  it again I would not use it as a I wouldn't put an apple there anyhow I but [TS]

  I could I would think about using is acting like you said leaders as sort of [TS]

  a sport and no word yea im ard imma screen maven so I have three screens on [TS]

  my desk so [TS]

  uniform for an iPad what's the name is a reflector or is that the different thing [TS]

  no I think I want to help but that might be totally making that up but he added [TS]

  years I think was built by former apple or something so it is like an apparently [TS]

  it it actually works quite well despite do at No [TS]

  do anything that's it duet display yeah there we go put in Charlotte next week [TS]

  first for the after-school advised a display accidental ingestion your iPad [TS]

  into action and that that's there that actually there there page title for [TS]

  Google so they're definitely playing up the VIX Apple engineer angle so [TS]

  effectively that's the that's what I remembered that's interesting I wonder [TS]

  how that plays at the company the other thing too is that the same part of the [TS]

  reason that very few former Apple engineers or you know people who have [TS]

  you know that any involvement managers to they don't talk about their [TS]

  experience at Apple even when they leave is because so many of them go back and [TS]

  then a revolving door right it's like Steve Jobs Steve Jobs did when when when [TS]

  he came back to the company's get rid of the sabbatical program they used to be a [TS]

  forget how many years but every five years you got like couple months about [TS]

  and he got really I forget various reasons but one of them was that an [TS]

  awful how the time people who take a sabbatical and in the end it's about it [TS]

  but there's sort of a defacto sabbatical where if you feel burned out you just [TS]

  quit you can leave and you know as long as you're on good terms it's like the [TS]

  easiest way to get a job at Apple is to have been a successful album boy before [TS]

  I can't tell you how many people I know who've left and come back within [TS]

  sometimes a year sometimes it's actually pretty quick sometimes 34 years but they [TS]

  do but one of the things you could do that would ruin that would be to you [TS]

  know you know lab that the company in the intern yet not only know it it's a [TS]

  very awake at this point it's a mean everyone knows about it and I think even [TS]

  Apple internally Blake Dave days it's always like it's totally accepted and an [TS]

  assumption llega burned-out [TS]

  called you get burned out and go work at a startup to relax you come back right [TS]

  to give you an idea of what the what the what the pace and expectations are ya [TS]

  but it is you know better I think it's an interesting way to do sabbaticals [TS]

  quick comeback yeah I work for them in russia that it's something that other [TS]

  companies like two adopted as a part of the Microsoft have a sabbatical policy I [TS]

  don't think so it was that not that it matters I remember I mean I wasn't there [TS]

  long enough to you to have a matter for me but I I've heard of people taking [TS]

  sabbaticals but I don't think it was a formal thing I think those things were [TS]

  if you're you're in good standing in the other Microsoft is in part because of [TS]

  where they're located I'm in there there are more and more jobs in in Seattle [TS]

  instead and the startups and stuff but in general it's more of a big company [TS]

  town with Microsoft and Amazon and no one from acts of historical Amazon for [TS]

  the most part because you know things that they were hinson hours Nokia paid [TS]

  anything so there's kind of a plus in my rocks off it's a plus in that way [TS]

  there's still a lot of really good employees their wares if they had been [TS]

  the valley like you didn't like HP your or Yahoo is possible for Miss America [TS]

  back and they just lost they watched so many people you know if they're just [TS]

  like how do you come back from that wears Microsoft I think one of the [TS]

  Avenger being there is that they they're still a lot of really strong people [TS]

  there is a disadvantage though because you get people that are just kind of [TS]

  there and they're not particularly pleased at being there and there [TS]

  a drag so it cuts both ways by Tom I think I do recall people you know taking [TS]

  some time off in you know it being ok because their valuable employees in you [TS]

  know people appreciate that sometimes you need to unplug it used to be a mean [TS]

  his history but it was you know when I wasn't getting out of college in [TS]

  ninety-six I mean Microsoft was notorious infamous famous for being the [TS]

  hardest place in the world to get hired it was you know that there was a play [TS]

  day I think they practically invented the sort of gimmicky you know off the [TS]

  top of your head how many marbles would fit in a you know a barrel or Volkswagen [TS]

  bug right but the interview question why why is a manhole cover round and and and [TS]

  also but tough like wakeboarding questions 24 programmers yeah I don't [TS]

  you think that that that's probably I mean any candy company that I'm top 10 I [TS]

  mean it shifted to Google right and it's you know some people how the nature they [TS]

  want to get on the next big thing but for a lot of people the idea of being at [TS]

  the market leader and knowing you know that that's that's attracted a lot of [TS]

  people and then asleep or valuable too because you need those are the kind of [TS]

  folks that come to provide long-term stability because you know what once [TS]

  they're set there said I mean you do need to people that we take risks in [TS]

  push forward but it is always a balance and it can create a certain arrogance [TS]

  and institutional arrogance because the gist of it is then it trades this [TS]

  created a culture I think we're at the assumption was any you have to be really [TS]

  smart to work at Microsoft and and therefore everybody here is like the [TS]

  smartest people in the world and at the time Microsoft had this extraordinary [TS]

  success that seemed to back up the idea that the company was staffed with all of [TS]

  the best programmers and oral absolutely no it is definitely a problem it in it [TS]

  and you get [TS]

  it's a prominent a few levels one you definitely get variants or arrogant to [TS]

  it also kind of breathe a little bit of a bad culture in that everyone everyone [TS]

  is like the first time I got into place where they're not for sure the smartest [TS]

  person in the room and so every is very eager to show that they are the smartest [TS]

  person in the room and like people trying to show that they're smart is not [TS]

  conducive to collaborative collaborative worker is conducive to having a very [TS]

  doggy dog sort of culture which Microsoft is very famous for end and I [TS]

  think that's that's probably plays into it [TS]

  yeah I think Google is the inheritor of that I do let me Google is so much like [TS]

  Microsoft [TS]

  in so many respects I mean I've written from just from me [TS]

  big picture i GTG perspective I think that there there right now in a place [TS]

  similar to Microsoft around around 2,000 obviously that's somewhat controversial [TS]

  but not even that but just the way the higher the way they the way they treat [TS]

  employees their status in the valley the way people look at them for sure that [TS]

  there there the inheritor even the even and I think you can agree with that even [TS]

  if you like Google Microsoft vice versa [TS]

  and it's just the function of being kinda big dog and a mic of course Apple [TS]

  is is the biggest client call for market perspective but they've always been very [TS]

  slow it's apples of the valley but they're separate from the valley like [TS]

  all the startups and all people like all work towards Google and people bars [TS]

  after that just as they previously did Microsoft and Apple is always been kind [TS]

  of a bit of an aberration from a coaching perspective from the product of [TS]

  perspective and obviously you know there's something to that I think it's [TS]

  also a personality perspective I think that the i mean I know I have talked [TS]

  about this before in the show I know people who have gone between Google and [TS]

  Apple but not very few fewer than any similar companies that I know [TS]

  like they just the two companies tend to draw very very different personalities [TS]

  know for certain I think you can see this from a social perspective you know [TS]

  I think Apple people tend to hang out with Apple people whereas Google and and [TS]

  kinda slow startup culture is much more much more of a group in goes back and [TS]

  forth and you see tons of you know you from Google going and going into going [TS]

  to start ups and coming back on select that educ durable but I think too much [TS]

  lower degree I think you you are more want term employees at Apple Store to [TS]

  see him in the world were were able to have a talk a bit but I definitely have [TS]

  always felt that the valley companies Google yea even though Apple's the [TS]

  biggest Apple is kind of its in its own world in can always has been [TS]

  yeah I also their personality wise I think a lot of the people who have [TS]

  gotten an apple who are very smart but they're not the type of smart person who [TS]

  wants to assert that they're the smartest person in the world are in the [TS]

  room that there and they'd be happy not to because it did cool now I've got [TS]

  these other smarter people and almost like to if you want to bring some sports [TS]

  ball into it it's you know what do you do if you've always been the star [TS]

  basketball player but now you're only the third or fourth best are you happy [TS]

  because holy holy shit now I've got three guys on the team who are better [TS]

  than me and i'll settle into a smaller role and we're gonna win or are you you [TS]

  know you upset and gonna complain about how many shots were getting and stuff [TS]

  like that [TS]

  note only eight and I mean I am I think of I'm very vociferous in my you know I [TS]

  will be able basketball and when the result of it is because I think it's [TS]

  it's a sport that it's one of the hardest ports to kind of figure out [TS]

  right I mean I think we did by the titles last time we played baseball at [TS]

  the end of a one-and-one game where is basketball the interaction both on often [TS]

  especially on defense is [TS]

  is so important to it and it's and it's not it's you can't distill it to a [TS]

  spreadsheet is just one of those days a lot of feel to it makes sense right and [TS]

  with only five players on the court anytime one new player is a significant [TS]

  difference I mean I think maybe the canonical example would be when when [TS]

  King James went to the heat and he already had a lineup of all-star players [TS]

  and they added you know almost in arguably the best player in the league [TS]

  that's not necessary that wasn't necessarily going to work out there [TS]

  wasn't you know it was certainly talent injection but it it isn't necessarily it [TS]

  wasn't it wasn't fate that it was going to lead to success rate was a fast [TS]

  things are seeing that they replayed outraged and in sorry your week going [TS]

  going worse than in that time so now it is with the Cavalier's yeah yeah totally [TS]

  so I've always been very fascinating is armed E [TS]

  if you work a kind the Executive Board of most big companies it's like Stanford [TS]

  Stanford MIT Stanford Stanford but that's never been the case for a for [TS]

  Apple I'm you get right now I mean you have your typical to Auburn and [TS]

  interference with 22 Boston get a DQ into a huge do could see obviously you [TS]

  know that that's a prestigious school but not a valid school right is that [TS]

  it's out of Valley School arm shoulder with Boston College yeah I think so and [TS]

  it is now used for whatever reason he's a huge fan of sports yeah I think he is [TS]

  our my I just quit my job and a couple of them here are the University of [TS]

  Massachusetts Amherst enrich ill Phil Schiller is Boston College and I i think [TS]

  thats [TS]

  Jeff Williams North Carolina State I mean like state schools rate I'm good [TS]

  schools schools are but not very different than the then then a lot of [TS]

  the valley and I think I I think it's a big deal I think it matters and I'm [TS]

  biased news regarding I want to say it's cool I mean it was a Drexel University [TS]

  by addressing the public school for people who are otherwise going to end up [TS]

  in the states by the way I think it's alriiiiight I'm not objective in the [TS]

  slightest in this because when I was when I was gonna be a very hard time [TS]

  getting a job and because I had is very kind of non-traditional background I had [TS]

  been living abroad I'd teaching English traveling the world stuff like that and [TS]

  water companies were like people to always very interesting but I would [TS]

  never make the cover an interview if I got a prisoner of you never make it to a [TS]

  second one even if I thought very well and cuddle one exception was was Apple [TS]

  where everything went fantastically got in you know relatively little quite [TS]

  easily and you never told me write about or in ice for six or 630 like my first [TS]

  interview so that price sorry things but she's like I want to hire uses a resume [TS]

  because it was so off the wall like that's that's the sort of person that [TS]

  were looking for and you go there any me lots of people and I believe it because [TS]

  most people I met ya the recent Stanford people in there were some you know I [TS]

  might even like that but a lot of people had really weird backgrounds and did [TS]

  lots of strange stuff in there were super smart but they were the weird [TS]

  weird PeopleSmart and I think that's why I don't think that's an accident I know [TS]

  a lot of Engineers an apple or at least a couple license a lot I know a couple [TS]

  of those who don't have any degree at all [TS]

  and I would say a lot who have degrees and things other than computer science [TS]

  physics lot of physics I mean I don't have any both Indy and people at Apple [TS]

  you know people who went to school for physics and we're programming on the [TS]

  side and then just got sucked into it and it just was irrelevant to their job [TS]

  prospects at Apple that they didn't have a computer science degree or you know [TS]

  whatever school wasn't texting in nicholson's new book on undressing Meyer [TS]

  where she was she was dismissive of because she didn't have a college degree [TS]

  I i remember i havent ready and able and ready to exert there is something though [TS]

  where she was you know she's sort of just turned her nose up at somebody else [TS]

  just because the person had didn't have a college degree [TS]

  Biol Google is notorious for having a very strong bias towards you know toward [TS]

  your degree in your GPA in particular from Stanford and I think a lot of one [TS]

  of the valley is and it's one of those things where I think the problem with it [TS]

  is is it raises the floor for who you hire like you're gonna get someone that [TS]

  smart and capable but anytime you raise the four year olds alluring the ceiling [TS]

  because you're kind of constraining constrain your options and someone fits [TS]

  in a box like you're not going to get out of the box thinking I mean and I [TS]

  think Apple at least in my personal experience in from people that I saw [TS]

  their info I talked to you in this is a university like the way Apple things [TS]

  what hiring [TS]

  putting much more value on non-school stuff and and and if they're smart and [TS]

  if they're kinda weird and they've done interesting things than that someone [TS]

  that were injured in and if they spent their whole day's going going to schools [TS]

  and heavy I GPA [TS]

  may be useful but it's always more of a more of a challenge in some respects [TS]

  yeah the other thing to do you like that whole asserting who's the smartest [TS]

  person in the room like I've heard this and other people too but this is a [TS]

  premium personal experience I way back when I'm close to 10 years ago like [TS]

  eight years ago when I was a joint we had a meeting with the app or just you [TS]

  know what you guys are working on this is one joint was not a hosting company [TS]

  when we were doing like a web based email calendar contacts syncing type [TS]

  thing and it was you know was a pleasant meeting it was a scene so maybe like 30 [TS]

  40 minutes but it was like the opposite of anybody trying to assert who is the [TS]

  smartest all they wanted to do was listen that's it they had they had [TS]

  questioned but there was absolutely no it was the opposite was almost like [TS]

  creepy how much they were just observing and listening to us and revealing [TS]

  nothing about themselves [TS]

  yeah we want to get into like wait read way too much into this like we probably [TS]

  already are but if you want to take it full speed ahead of where the best [TS]

  things will be an intern at Apple is they have this like this in turn lecture [TS]

  series where basically the executive team a different team for lunch they [TS]

  come in for an hour and they talked some some some just talked all times I'm give [TS]

  presentations others do Q&A so it was i mean two hours do jobs an hour to an [TS]

  hour with the seller like Ron Ron Ron Johnson like it was an incredible [TS]

  experience like worth the internship alone by the [TS]

  there was wide that was really interesting because this person came in [TS]

  and he was obviously the smartest person in the room and he was also determined [TS]

  to make sure that everyone knew who the smartest person in the room is the [TS]

  person no longer I'll give you one guess as to whose personal guessing it was [TS]

  good for us it was like i watch them yeah I told a friend of mine and we will [TS]

  meet up this way after he left a polite we as we talked what r afterwards I was [TS]

  so it was a jarring [TS]

  Hughes so but it was just such a turnoff to listen to him talk especially [TS]

  relative to other executives and if you will run again you know for your [TS]

  personal the same for listeners but there's a Stanford guy and and I don't [TS]

  know if I wasn't as well as things were when he left I was shocked but I was not [TS]

  surprised because of that that was aware that there was a mean I've heard stuff I [TS]

  knew that it was i mean I knew that he was a difficult person to to work with [TS]

  the grapevine by Tom I i misses him to be honest are by III also was not was [TS]

  not surprised I agree with that I do too I think it's easy like I laughed and [TS]

  said I knew I didn't like was it was forced off but I think he's an extremely [TS]

  complicated figure and I think explaining his role in Apple's success [TS]

  over the last fifteen years is extremely complicated and there's absolutely no [TS]

  way to paint it black or white and say he is mass they suck without him or it [TS]

  was easy no-brainer to get rid of good riddance to bad rubbish it is so so many [TS]

  different in now integrate its just so many interweaves streaks of black and [TS]

  white [TS]

  absolutely good part by part good part part now he's a mean he is [TS]

  is on the top five list of people most responsible for Apple being where it is [TS]

  today I think part of it was that I think he always had and I don't you know [TS]

  again I met him once you know after a keynote and we had like half hour [TS]

  discussion and it was great [TS]

  any was just me and him in hand on area and it was clearly a reader my site very [TS]

  complimentary of my work and we just talked about some cool stuff and you [TS]

  know it was no showing off his stuff and nobody was very very brain it was [TS]

  actually around the time of 10 Dec 2010 [TS]

  yeah i phone 4 yes iPhone 4 and the iPad was like four months old and a lot of [TS]

  this stuff we're getting kids but it's actually ever to everybody but [TS]

  especially kids with autism and problems like that were found to be doing [TS]

  sensational staff communication wise with iPhones and now with the big iPad [TS]

  which really helps with fine motor control kozyrev bigger targets that it [TS]

  was a huge thing he was so amazingly engaged in this you know that is not [TS]

  like hey how to make the company another ten billion dollars [TS]

  you know it's clearly a small segment of the overall market for iPads and I found [TS]

  but he was super super engaged on it and thought we'd is cool discussion about [TS]

  how that a lot of the things that they design not think they did you know all [TS]

  these things fell out of things to do just that we're cool for regular people [TS]

  but it ends up being you know super great for people with autism but it's [TS]

  it's this whole that his conclusion he said that they were looking into it to [TS]

  try to prove it just do it is that it's just about a leave you know eliminating [TS]

  a layer of abstraction that that whole thing where you move mouse which needs [TS]

  an hour on the screen [TS]

  and you do it you know once you get used to using computers you know you just [TS]

  forget about it but that people with autism can never get past it that it's [TS]

  this abstraction that just their brains don't make the connection and when they [TS]

  can put their finger right on that button on the screen and tap it it's [TS]

  it's not just like a little bit easier it's the difference between unable to [TS]

  make the connection in completely able to make the connection and that other [TS]

  people who can use a mouse and don't have any sort of impairment like that [TS]

  they you know they might they they don't really think about the fact that the [TS]

  iPad's a lot easier for the iPhones a lot easier but that it ends up that [TS]

  subconsciously without thinking about it is and it actually is why they would [TS]

  prefer using it now I i think is a great conversation and and the gist of it was [TS]

  just he just was talking with just me and him talking and it was great and I [TS]

  thought he was great and I also know also not just at the other thing is that [TS]

  there are tons of people ton of people who worked under him at Apple who loved [TS]

  him love and love working under he was demanding but that it was it was [TS]

  absolutely not he was very well and the other thing to the heard time and time [TS]

  again was it [TS]

  people who worked under him always had the sense that he had their back right [TS]

  right that's like getting out there not only thing is I actually think I I'm not [TS]

  sure by thinking that talk I think actually did talk a lot was the same [TS]

  summer 2010 I was there and so maybe was on his mind I think he talked a lot [TS]

  about the accessibility stuff and I i think im not sure but I think I've heard [TS]

  that he was really the driving force for iOS being so advanced when it came to [TS]

  accessibility like for the blind and play well it certainly wasn't complete [TS]

  advocate for it I get total a dream he may not have been the driving force be [TS]

  put his advocacy behind it just in general I mean I i really think like [TS]

  this is where I think missus amateur parts I think one is is like his ability [TS]

  to a guy I do think that I was was incredibly [TS]

  given given what always was not be at all and was really good I think there's [TS]

  a discussion we had about some stuff but too I think he had a real passion and [TS]

  push for usability and accessibility not not just for like disabled but for [TS]

  normal people and like and so much of the original iPhone OS that was so [TS]

  natural and so obvious in that obvious pneus it's obvious when you use it but [TS]

  it's not obviously designed it requires tons of generation and tons of pushback [TS]

  in doing it again again and certainly jobs was was the head of this in the [TS]

  input for this but this was where this is where in particular I think for so [TS]

  really channel jobs and certainly iowa's now as they especially now once were [TS]

  used to work much better than the old iPhone OS but I still think there's lots [TS]

  of areas where there are more difficult to use it more difficult in a knot in [TS]

  that they're less obvious and i think is missing still I think a way that you get [TS]

  there is not so much being able to find the truly simple seemingly obvious way [TS]

  to do it it's more of the refusal to accept the complicated the complex the [TS]

  this isn't it isn't clear how you do it but you you know you start you think a [TS]

  you know here's how will lay out the new calendar app for iOS aid and will do [TS]

  this and this and that sounds good and you build it and use it and it's like [TS]

  but I'm kind of confused they just show a list of events and eventually though [TS]

  you can get used to it and you can just say well you can do everything right now [TS]

  I've been testing it long enough I know it good enough let ship it whereas I [TS]

  think forestall and again like you say channeling jobs had an ability to say [TS]

  this isn't good enough this shit we've gotta start over this you know this can [TS]

  be tweaked we can't just move about in here we've got to throw this out because [TS]

  the whole thing is just not brain that clear yet so hard as well as you can get [TS]

  you can just talk yourself into accepting something that's not quite [TS]

  clear so hard when you're immersed in it so hard to look at something through the [TS]

  eyes of a new user or a novice user like that's that's a truly like a skill and a [TS]

  gift that very few people including myself I think you know have because [TS]

  what you're just used to it and so he becomes a blind spot yeah I guess I take [TS]

  a break right here [TS]

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  fracture fracture is the company that you send them your photos they print [TS]

  your photos directly on pieces of glass not on a piece of paper that's under [TS]

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  a print your photo right on the glass the effect in person is like the analog [TS]

  equivalent of these modern retina displays where the LCD is laminated to [TS]

  the touch [TS]

  center where it looks like the pixels are right on the glass that's what your [TS]

  photo looks like when you get it back from fracture really really cool they [TS]

  have a home in two sizes everything from small square ones to really really big [TS]

  ones and they ship them in these amazing it's almost worth ordering your first [TS]

  thing from fractured just to see how they ship them because the box is the [TS]

  frame is the stand it's all sort of integrated and there's like a total [TS]

  minimal amount of wasted cardboard but when you get out if you wanna hang it on [TS]

  a wall or you wanna property under desk all that stuff is all built in [TS]

  to what you get to you don't need to take this thing and then put a frame [TS]

  around it or put it in a frame or do anything like that [TS]

  everything you need to like say hanging on the wall or propped up on your desk [TS]

  is all built in to the packaging really cool looking so you can do it and then [TS]

  it borderless so it just isn't just has a great effect very very aesthetically [TS]

  pleasing under desk or on your wall and the quality is just top notch I really [TS]

  really love the way pictures from this is a great gift if you haven't tried [TS]

  your do not it's really really good way and you know I think they're big pitch [TS]

  you know is that as we go [TS]

  more and more digital diddle diddle diddle with her photography we lose [TS]

  touch of humanity of getting analog prints of your family and friends and [TS]

  you know event from your life that you want to remember and the way that we [TS]

  used to in the old days all the best photos we had of course analog digital [TS]

  we had and you have to hang on your wall or on your desk or incremental so it's a [TS]

  great way to do that [TS]

  take your best pictures get them printed out and there's no better way to do it [TS]

  than tractor so where do you go to find out more [TS]

  well their website is add fracture frac ture fracture and they [TS]

  have a special code just for listeners of the show [TS]

  daring fireball all one word during fireball you'll save five bucks off your [TS]

  order if you use that code verifiable so my thanks to fracture go get some [TS]

  pictures as you mentioned the [TS]

  like the analog meter of photos did you see that that iPhone app that basically [TS]

  let you take what you take a picture but it doesn't show you the picture taken it [TS]

  and once you've taken 24 pictures you can pay to have them mailed to you in [TS]

  like printed out you know I did see something like this is like maybe a [TS]

  couple weeks ago [TS]

  yeah it's called White Album I think I'm gonna just did a quick search White [TS]

  Album I think so the out white white white album out dot com suppressant [TS]

  beetles in some ways that sounds terrible it's interesting you like good [TS]

  I thought it was exactly like ours is so great it's a wonderful and it's like and [TS]

  you certainly that is that it sounds great when you tweet it I'm not sure be [TS]

  very great next real life and I also feel that there's something about a [TS]

  digital viewfinder even though the iPhone viewfinder is using your iPhone [TS]

  if you find her and holding it up and the camera is so much bigger than what [TS]

  you'd see what I can analog old analog film camera when you look through the [TS]

  eyepiece but because it's a center there's something about it that makes it [TS]

  harder to frame exactly what you want I don't know why I feel like if I tried [TS]

  this I would not take as good of pictures as I would if I were using my [TS]

  old thirty five-millimeter SLR looking through the viewfinder [TS]

  well yeah i know i cant champ and look at the pictures as I take them but I [TS]

  feel like I would get better pictures that way cuz I'm looking through an [TS]

  actual analog viewfinder and there's no lag whatsoever no I agree and it [TS]

  actually I just think about it when I use my my like i i i dont look at the [TS]

  photo I took most the time was I mite worried about the exposure something [TS]

  right unless you notice something really weird like man this is there's such [TS]

  strong backlighting like these people you know there's no way to get on the [TS]

  other side of them in the Sun is behind them [TS]

  I want to double check that this isn't just going to show up as a software [TS]

  right exactly exactly a juicy I take it and then we'll get it whenever I [TS]

  whatever I used to get frustrated I don't even remember the last time I long [TS]

  to hear but I used to use Hipstamatic a lot because I thought they had for a [TS]

  while I thought they had the best filters by far but its somatic had they [TS]

  were halfway in that regard where they didn't let you apply filters to photos [TS]

  you'd already taken and they didn't let you change the filters on photos taken [TS]

  you had to set your gimmicky fake lands and your gimmicky fake film and then [TS]

  whatever you took you got interesting I'd ever I never really used it it ended [TS]

  I it it's you know and it was all in the name of this sort of well for lack of a [TS]

  better term school more effect pretending that you're at the [TS]

  Hipstamatic app was a film camera you know and have different lands computer [TS]

  you can I find a film you really like and then you put a different lens on and [TS]

  it gives it a slightly I think that the film's always had the strongest effect [TS]

  on the filtering in the lenders a little secondary but you can get different [TS]

  effects but you couldn't see until after you took photo and it was a Renault and [TS]

  if you took one and it was like your [TS]

  you had it set up to look really good outside on a sunny day in pictures were [TS]

  nice and warm and had a nice night gimmicky filter look but just you know [TS]

  pleasing look and then you went indoors in the same combination look bad you [TS]

  were at like so many taps and turning the camera around in switching the film [TS]

  is crazy when I just let me do this after taking the photos it in do you [TS]

  think about that with with Instagram records you use unlike an initial pass [TS]

  you would think that they're gonna be there there in the same category but I [TS]

  mean Instagram is is an amazing nap in service because it's it's really forward [TS]

  in when you get that is like Instagram it was kind of the first really pure we [TS]

  were built for a mobile phone and part that's in the workflow you just take a [TS]

  picture and then you apply the filter and yeah maybe if I applying a key she [TS]

  secure morphic type filter but it fits with the way you actually take pictures [TS]

  on a phone [TS]

  yeah and then the alleged beyond that the actual service you know only royal [TS]

  working on a phone in having a bare-bones website at best for a very [TS]

  long time even today it's pretty bare-bones like they've they've always [TS]

  been a mobile-first company that is those daughter on the phone with the [TS]

  assumption that you're going to use your phone and I think it's a big part of why [TS]

  you know they've been so successful yeah aesthetic side there's no doubt [TS]

  Instagram I wouldn't call it a rip off I would just say that the Date II [TS]

  Hipstamatic lunch where there is so much that they they just took from [TS]

  Hipstamatic [TS]

  the square the only side the only the only size you are [TS]

  ratio you can have a square [TS]

  somatic has has had a no fake borders to make you know some of the film's [TS]

  depending on what phone you had had like polaroids style borders which if you [TS]

  recall Instagram had for like the first couple of years of its existence right [TS]

  you know the basic the base that look like like not just you know that the [TS]

  film's tended to look like old analog instant films all of that you know [TS]

  Instagram just borrowed from Hipstamatic or followed Hipstamatic lead but they [TS]

  did that in a better way because they they took advantage of they they did all [TS]

  the things I said that made people like that look they do you know that's all [TS]

  the you know just the pleasure gives you two have photos from your camera that [TS]

  look like that and that made you know just look cool or look better or [TS]

  whatever you want to say look deeper with none of the none of the goofy [TS]

  restrictions the Hipstamatic imposed in the name of just pure hips tourism you [TS]

  know the whole once you've set a filter you know you have to take the filter the [TS]

  photo with the filter and if you don't like it tough take another photo whereas [TS]

  Instagram will let you pick camera images from your camera roll they would [TS]

  let you change the filter if you're already taken in Instagram etc and then [TS]

  you know multiply that by a hundred fold by having the genius of turning it into [TS]

  a twitter-like social network right [TS]

  glad that you know but it's all part of it i mean if I think that if they had [TS]

  lines without filters at all it would have taken a lot longer may not have [TS]

  taken off thats whats O'Brien about about it [TS]

  Instagram as a social network is they did there was a reason to use Instagram [TS]

  from day one you do you have any friends and that that's what's so hard about [TS]

  getting off the ground is is just finding people are discovering people [TS]

  and even Twitter today has this problem where people get on there and they don't [TS]

  have many followers in now traders cut off from the Facebook you know kind of [TS]

  connection feed and it's like so I'm just like 40 in the win here like who's [TS]

  listening to what I have to say where is with Instagram like you're getting value [TS]

  you can get value from Instagram even if you have 0 followers yes even if your [TS]

  Instagram feed is more or less just your own photos from now when nobody's [TS]

  looking at in there you can send you know email them and keep them and you [TS]

  know right maybe it's because the filters I mean they're they're cool and [TS]

  then they will need and and no I read the other is just in general I think you [TS]

  just said something along these lines is appreciating a product is so much more [TS]

  than just like the actual like like Instagram is successful yet maybe they [TS]

  borrowed the the filter concept and a lot of was very similar Hipstamatic but [TS]

  that's not an it's very easy it's stuck on that in like comparing companies are [TS]

  to bring products on the sort of stuff but the whole earth like the whole thing [TS]

  is the product of its [TS]

  it solve it and even even with Instagram Ruak is they are low how they're gonna [TS]

  make money in the future in the long run that's going to be part of the product [TS]

  Linda like it's much more there's all these different facets that go into [TS]

  ensure some companies are probably someone one facet of you very different [TS]

  other ones in maybe those different things and making the difference [TS]

  give any insight on this a couple weeks ago down from her was on the show and he [TS]

  it's been so long that I almost forgotten the complained that Instagram [TS]

  still doesn't have an iPad up I do actually I i think it's I think it's ok [TS]

  I mean I understand I understand the the objection but I think it comes back to [TS]

  Instagram being being a a phone first outbreak that that's where awake so just [TS]

  from a very kind of narrow perspective I think it's grim still sees more benefit [TS]

  from working on improving their phone apps and they do on building building an [TS]

  iPad app 12 the problem I mean now that people use iPads cameras this isn't as [TS]

  quite a strong idea but I think this was component in streams that he is more [TS]

  than almost israel's like facebook in that there is a very solid balance [TS]

  between creating content and consuming content whereas Twitter I think a lot of [TS]

  people might just consumer they're really put stuff out there where where [TS]

  is in ceramic people use it to make stuff and they use it to get stuff and I [TS]

  think I almost think it's an outdated view of the iPad I think in a lot of [TS]

  ways and especially when it comes to photography the iPad is a lot more big [TS]

  iPhone then then tablet laptop I do think so especially for your for certain [TS]

  segments of the population I mean it's my mom's primary camera you like to go [TS]

  into your mom but literally it's my mom's primary primary there's too many [TS]

  people like that I you know every time I go to a used to I used to make a note [TS]

  and I used to even when we go to Disney World [TS]

  like a year or two ago I would just snap photos of people using tablets as as [TS]

  cameras just as I got things to do while walking around the park and I didn't [TS]

  publish them anywhere to make fun of them but I just had them privately and [TS]

  see how many how many brothers of people using their tablet has a camera can I [TS]

  rack up in a day in my son you know my son used to laugh that was the stupidest [TS]

  happy to have it did you ever know but I can usually get like 20 in a day and [TS]

  then I just deleted it sorry could even do anymore you'd you'd never get you and [TS]

  be able to get from point A to point B it's it is commonly seen somebody using [TS]

  the phone has a camera and there's too many people who you know they just don't [TS]

  see the distinction like I don't even see be by then when I first tried to get [TS]

  off I tried to get off my own high horse about making fun of people using tablets [TS]

  as cameras may like a year ago or so I still get pushback from my listeners of [TS]

  the show command it stupid looking now I don't even get that everybody it's just [TS]

  some ken and I feel like it's almost ridiculous for a nap thats photo centric [TS]

  like Instagram not to be native on what is for a lot of people their primary [TS]

  camera in hand for the consumption side consuming photos it's always better to [TS]

  be bigger so it would you know to look at your friends photos it's always going [TS]

  bigger and bigger on the biggest device you know that's very I like I think your [TS]

  point is right that the that that justification may have made sense but it [TS]

  makes increasingly western states that said they did their part of Facebook [TS]

  days they have access to numbers in where what people are using and where [TS]

  they're using it so I would imagine it's a it's not a uninformed [TS]

  the third factor is that it's different I think any iOS a tiara with the two fun [TS]

  with the new phones because the difference between making an iPad app [TS]

  and an iPhone is nowhere near as different as it used to be like it's [TS]

  it's really more in with these if you doing it the right way [TS]

  if you can support the multiple iPhones sizes there's almost no reason you [TS]

  should be supporting the iPad to the same thing it's no longer to big things [TS]

  it's these different you know what I can scaling factors or whatever is going on [TS]

  I think there is a resolution issue I know some people have raised there is a [TS]

  possible reason as well like this room for those are two super low resolution [TS]

  in my crap on the iPad [TS]

  gonna get off the ground by utilizing like the iPhone 3G camera [TS]

  yeah so my guess is it's coming but it's it's almost it's almost as you know it's [TS]

  almost like they're doing it on purpose at this point because they do support [TS]

  the native iPhone 6 sizes in six-plus you know and I would suggest as as a [TS]

  iPad app just you know i i think thats a nap we don't have to you know that I [TS]

  just asked just a just a natively scaled version of the iPhone app would be just [TS]

  fine you don't have to redesign interrelated out or do something [TS]

  different so I mean their website is basically a a scaled-up version of the [TS]

  iPhone app like it's literally just like a comma photos that that might as well [TS]

  be the output on open webpage yeah I think the more I get my guess is the [TS]

  explanation is that I think that you know there are very conservative company [TS]

  has a weird thing or a four-year-old what five-year-old startup that is part [TS]

  of Facebook and that is you know gone from thirteen people to you know billion [TS]

  dollar acquisition to a multi-billion dollar asset in just a handful of years [TS]

  usually don't think of such companies as being conservative but they are they're [TS]

  very very conservative in my opinion we can only sign ways you can really see [TS]

  that you can argue we see the conservatism in the fact that they [TS]

  sought out so early right and you know yeah I would say that's actually part of [TS]

  the conservatism and I would say the biggest sign of it is just how close [TS]

  what they have today is to what they shipped with the first day like it's you [TS]

  know they've definitely added a bunch of features in the rewritten the filters [TS]

  but it's more or less the same thing you would be someone who got to who like on [TS]

  the day that Instagram came out for iPhone and just Institute body are you [TS]

  know I just downloaded it got into it and said I love this I love this [TS]

  Instagram thing and just consumed the whole album understood the whole thing [TS]

  and if you took today is Instagram to that person five years ago for years ago [TS]

  whatever it is they would be right at home they have like two or three new [TS]

  things too like that score but that's it it's a good point there's very few [TS]

  companies are you can say that about yeah when it gets the genius of the [TS]

  genius of the other the whole entire concept to write think about how [TS]

  different Twitter today like logging into and what you're exposed [TS]

  to compare to what you were you know five years ago [TS]

  very different what else is in the news before we get too big picture stuff see [TS]

  box had their IPO today they did and it popped very nicely I which is great for [TS]

  them I i kind of suspect that they they underpriced a little on purpose just [TS]

  because there's been so much there's been a bit of a cloud on the company for [TS]

  the last year which is not which is not a good thing to have your trying to sell [TS]

  into very large enterprises in assure them that you're gonna you can hold on [TS]

  to other data for the long run [TS]

  whereas now I think they're going to come out of this is going to be a ton of [TS]

  good news while you were fantastic the market loves them and I think it's going [TS]

  to be really good for them from me just a sales momentum perspective so I won't [TS]

  be suspected when I won't be surprised if they continue their private leaving [TS]

  money on the table by but that they deemed kind of the shift in perception [TS]

  that this will result in to be to be worth it [TS]

  yeah the psychology of an IPO is so weird because it's like dealing in some [TS]

  sense you want to price their IPO exactly what the market is gonna [TS]

  value-add because otherwise you're leaving money on the table [TS]

  but then you're at it from your investor's perspective there's a [TS]

  financial drive to underpriced your IPO so that all those investor shares go up [TS]

  in value once the market prices it I think I think it I think it I think it [TS]

  matters and the people you take like Facebook Twitter and Facebook basically [TS]

  then pop it all and then over time actually wind down and pretend there's a [TS]

  lot of people who look at it from a narrow perspective and say well Facebook [TS]

  did it just right they captured every available cent and in the end though get [TS]

  Twitter in Twitter had a huge pop and they like older screwed up a level of [TS]

  money on the table but I think if you actually look at it like Facebook was [TS]

  under a ton of pressure right after IPO and I think they were constrained like [TS]

  strategically like I i suspect that on Facebook should about ways for example [TS]

  the mapping out but I think that one reason they didn't is they can't really [TS]

  justify spending over a billion dollars when they were under so much pressure [TS]

  from from investors [TS]

  examines the height of like Facebook is doomed mania with their stock dipped [TS]

  like a third of what what did I filled out our half whatever whereas twitter [TS]

  twitter arguably has kind of been a disaster since they appealed [TS]

  almost everywhere earnings calls been been worse than the last [TS]

  yet yes there's pressure and there's been a lot of talk about Costello and [TS]

  stuff like that this year particular but I don't think it's been nearly to the [TS]

  degree that it will probably deserves to be perfectly honest I think part of it [TS]

  is because the stock is still up from the IPO like that it it weakens are you [TS]

  work out yet the stocks down from its high but it's still higher than when it [TS]

  IPO that I think that that that that matters it in if wears a Twitter was [TS]

  down like Facebook was down and had WAY worse fundamentals than Facebook ever [TS]

  had been like this this guy would be falling to a much greater degree than it [TS]

  is right now in and there's also something like the incalculable part is [TS]

  the PR value of an IPO that pops as you say [TS]

  absolutely like net net netscape [TS]

  maybe the canonical example I don't know but it gave this sense that netscape was [TS]

  the future that however much money left on the table because the IPO popped on [TS]

  day one was worth I don't know I think tens of millions of dollars in the [TS]

  perception of you know holy shit there's a new tech industry Titan in town [TS]

  absolutely and there's room for hiring a marriage for morale and it matters for [TS]

  like you know me the stock market a lot of it is about perception and it's the [TS]

  popping is like oh my god everybody else thinks this company is going to kick ass [TS]

  right in that sticks with you like it matters win like it did the bad news [TS]

  doesn't matter the way people perceive the bad news is what matters and if [TS]

  people come out with the assumption that this is a valuable company people are [TS]

  excited about all that's ok though they'll get over it [TS]

  whereas if it's at this company man runs down in peace bad news comes as a call [TS]

  man this is terrible and like I said that you saw that with Facebook which in [TS]

  retrospect we was ridiculous you know now that now the stock is is well up [TS]

  from its IPO stage but it took it took a lot longer than it should have forgotten [TS]

  the the perception of Facebook to change in arguing I think even in the value I i [TS]

  feel like Facebook is is still seriously under appreciated for what a force it is [TS]

  not just not just as as a service in a nap but as a financial as a business [TS]

  yeah I agree with them and I think [TS]

  it's funny cause as complicated as Facebook itself as a product is in my [TS]

  opinion it's a pretty simple story financially it's you know they sell out [TS]

  ads in the feed and make people pay to get placement and because everybody uses [TS]

  it it's worth it and therefore you know the money is growing whereas twitter is [TS]

  a much simpler product and any kind of argument they try to make as to how they [TS]

  gonna make money is my eyes roll back in my head and I fall asleep cause I don't [TS]

  understand that there is something to that and I think the the the Facebook ad [TS]

  unit is like the best ad unit in in like intact I mean it's like people are [TS]

  working at that feed multiple times a day every day more and more and in a [TS]

  Facebook ad takes over your entire screen it might only be for a few [TS]

  seconds but for a few seconds like your entire screen is filled with an ad which [TS]

  on the web was never the case like the ads rose off to the side of their [TS]

  accompanying stuff and so they are easy to their much easier to to ignore and [TS]

  it's super compelling what things are those you safe [TS]

  you say Twitter simple I was wonder if this is a like we talked about with with [TS]

  about to forestall [TS]

  we're used to it and it it feels simple 140 characters seem simple but then you [TS]

  start trying to explain to people like oh don't start with a net mention or [TS]

  some people still use or to your empty I guess all these kind of conventions that [TS]

  actually understood is pretty complicated and and there's a lot of [TS]

  stuff like I think the last really smart think Twitter did from a product [TS]

  perspective was the native retweet because that did simplified a convention [TS]

  in there so much other stuff that's craft that's risen up like these multi [TS]

  tweets are the tweet storms and I call this an attaching photos 22 an image [TS]

  like it that the company FM it's so frustrating because they're doing all [TS]

  the stuff in there buying these things in there [TS]

  we're going to developer tools and all this sort of crap when it's like there's [TS]

  so much low-hanging fruit from a product perspective and from an onboarding [TS]

  perspective which is still a disaster [TS]

  yeah I know you mean it's it's it comes i think you can come across the country [TS]

  and my eyes as very jargonese computer jargon me with all the Artis and empties [TS]

  and honestly even I think people get that username and it's certainly one of [TS]

  them i think is the most powerful asset Twitter has I really do is the fact that [TS]

  when you turn on TV doesn't matter whether it's politics or supports its [TS]

  like the people who are on TV they tell you their name and they tell you their [TS]

  twitter handles and people get that and that is super valuable but I think in [TS]

  combined that with hashtags in it to me the whole thing comes across the looking [TS]

  very jargonese we could do the whole show on my feelings on hashtags but I [TS]

  know I realize they've taken off and I realize that people somewhat get them in [TS]

  the regular people do use them but I do feel that it contributes to a visual [TS]

  jargon enos when you especially for new users with you you know you look at the [TS]

  stuff only see all these weird punctuation characters in and starts to [TS]

  look like programming code and the weird shorthand I Guardian emptied yeah now I [TS]

  think I think we might help to relieve every time the show but I'm still I i'm [TS]

  still like there now they're messing with the time I like there's a while you [TS]

  were gone and stuff I honestly think like the timeline is such at this point [TS]

  is so much craft associated with it it's fantastic for all of us we are familiar [TS]

  with Twitter and used to it but it's pretty intimidating for a new user and I [TS]

  i wish they would embrace lists and like have channels in the wake news will come [TS]

  under the World Cup in dip into the World Cup channel without having to like [TS]

  you wanna wake what's you don't want to follow people in the world cup every day [TS]

  of the year you just wanted and there's no dip in and about experience for new [TS]

  users on Twitter right now [TS]

  yeah I think and I think it kind of gets into some of the stuff that dreams has [TS]

  was writing about talking about in the last couple of weeks you know with the [TS]

  whole when when Instagram past Twitter in terms of forget the metric monthly [TS]

  average user active users and he was like I don't give a shit how many [TS]

  monthly active users Instagram as you know and he has great argument and then [TS]

  on the line can be taken out of context and make it look like he's arrogant [TS]

  whatever and you read as his essay on it on medium and unsurprisingly 47 wins [TS]

  very very thoughtful and he's right and it's you know when there's no Twitter [TS]

  has important uses that you just could never do on an instrument like when [TS]

  there where the uprising in Egypt and stuff like that and people used hashtags [TS]

  to get the news out and it you know [TS]

  breaking news and stuff like that happens in a way on Twitter that there [TS]

  is no equivalent on any other service the stuff in Ferguson's the st. Louis [TS]

  demonstrations and stuff like that all had a part on Twitter I mean I think [TS]

  that dudes twitter is central to the way that the protesters have organized for [TS]

  things like that [TS]

  meanders it's just unique but I feel like the thing that twitter twitter [TS]

  though you know having dreams doesn't want it anymore and I feel like the [TS]

  problem is that Twitter has got a leadership level gotten caught up in [TS]

  that sort of Facebook ask monthly average users as an important metric [TS]

  which is tied them up because I feel like what Twitter is natural places for [TS]

  most people is far more about consumption that about actually tweeting [TS]

  right [TS]

  whereas Facebook is all about everybody sharing all of their stuff with their [TS]

  people you know with their friends and family and stuff like that [TS]

  whereas I think the problem is what am I supposed to tweet maybe you're not [TS]

  supposed to tweet anything maybe you're just supposed to you know like you said [TS]

  get on a list or follow a hashtag for the World Cup or for your favorite team [TS]

  or for some sort of news event they are interested in and just follow along and [TS]

  you know maybe it's like a hobby that you want to follow all the time or maybe [TS]

  it's just i just want to follow the Super Bowl in till next Monday I don't [TS]

  want to contribute anything you're not tweeting you're just following along [TS]

  know what I said when that happened in scrambling like my take was like I'm [TS]

  really sad that we didn't buy Instagram mainly because if they had Instagram [TS]

  would make all the money in Twitter could just be Twitter yeah it's a race [TS]

  around was gonna make billions of dollars I mean it it's it's like [TS]

  facebook but even better where you're going to scroll through your photos [TS]

  there's going to be ads in there and you're gonna do anyway because you're [TS]

  addicted to it and it and it if it's such it's so it's so obvious and Twitter [TS]

  I'm surprised we don't see more ads and Internet I don't know if I've ever seen [TS]

  one they know that they announced it in another day had some demo versions over [TS]

  but I still like I check it almost everyday and i cant remember seeing an [TS]

  ad industry know if there is still likely in very limited sort of trial as [TS]

  well as things were Facebook doesn't need to like Facebook is making so much [TS]

  money right now that they can I mean they can spend billions of dollars on [TS]

  whatever they want to and and not monetize its think it's it's smart not [TS]

  just from me they want to do it the right way but it's smart from me they [TS]

  can always turn that faucet on if they need to all and end like what's the rush [TS]

  the stock market was down there flying high [TS]

  they they have like pretty much there as independent as an independent company [TS]

  can be for the most part I mean just Romney won the soccer balls them into [TS]

  our controls everything anyway so from that perspective you know what's the [TS]

  what's the rush and the gist of it as I you know I don't agree with you I'm [TS]

  surprised with 2:17 [TS]

  just cause I feel like a way to do it is a you know the old slowly boiled frog [TS]

  you know starting slow and then slowly dial it up to where you want it to be [TS]

  but you gotta start at some point yeah which they have but I think they are [TS]

  going slower than they need to just because they can you see Tim quick Tim [TS]

  Cook tweeted congratulations on the box [TS]

  yeah surprising and I take note of that you know and my cuz Tim Cook tweets and [TS]

  almost dead certain that it actually him doing the tweeting but he doesn't treat [TS]

  very often right and so it's usually worth noting and I know he tweeted [TS]

  earlier in the week or I guess it's almost a week ago now for Martin Luther [TS]

  King Day holiday here in the USA and he's repeatedly and you know it did this [TS]

  is two heroes are martin luther king in and robert kennedy so no surprise that [TS]

  he would tweet something like that I love you know a nice thing for Apple CEO [TS]

  tweet but not necessarily newsworthy but I'm tweeting to you know box on an IPO [TS]

  is to me a little interesting tolerated under there's a fair bit of speculation [TS]

  already and that's what they should just like raised eyebrows yeah I don't know I [TS]

  kind of feel like it's an IPO 1 them on an IPO is it certainly doesn't mean that [TS]

  box is not going to be acquired by somebody else but it's certainly makes [TS]

  it a lot less likely and you know I think Apple is happier in a world where [TS]

  more companies like box IPO and stay independent satellites of [TS]

  that you know the mammoth Titans like Microsoft and Facebook and Google then a [TS]

  world where every company they get to that size and stability get acquired by [TS]

  somebody [TS]

  absolutely i think is not gonna do those acquisitions right out was never gonna [TS]

  be the one that requires a lot of companies and therefore it means that [TS]

  most of those companies would be going into companies that are more like [TS]

  competitors to Apple's like Google or Microsoft her facebook [TS]

  you know what have you know that's how I read a really great that I think that's [TS]

  exactly it that's how I read it because I feel like Apple can you know happily [TS]

  in wholeheartedly partner with box on things like this you know the extent you [TS]

  know that file sharing integration in in Yosemite in iowa and would be a lot less [TS]

  likely did you have little box was going to be acquired by Google even though [TS]

  it's an open API that everybody can do so I guess who you know have to box [TS]

  Dropbox would be next right yeah I think ideal saber Mike formerly samuel was [TS]

  like you who he was one of the sky speaking about it he's like well without [TS]

  producing for Dropbox I think for the reason you said a absolutely and I think [TS]

  when they demoed extensions I think they had both box in Dropbox yes there and I [TS]

  think that Apple and its the exact relationship at all [TS]

  Apple likes where they did Apple needs them [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah I don't think you know how Apple has any desire to crush [TS]

  Dropbox really down I mean I know some people read into it and they think you [TS]

  know that they would just like everybody to you know they want people to use [TS]

  iCloud drive no doubt about it i mean they've made it so people would use it [TS]

  but if people would rather use Dropbox instead use Dropbox instead you know [TS]

  there's no way that they would go through the work to make things like [TS]

  Dropbox official cause you know up until the assembly Dropbox was just a dirty [TS]

  hacked integrate with the Finder that's right eventually they they did like [TS]

  things for Dropbox in in Yosemite to actually make it work [TS]

  yeah it's all officially sanctioned in on the open up those green check boxes [TS]

  that show you you know again to find review when you're looking in some in [TS]

  your Dropbox Dropbox is the one I use I don't use box I don't use any of the [TS]

  other third party ones but I use Dropbox now you get these official green check [TS]

  marks that you never got before like when you used to get like the little [TS]

  badge on your Finder icon that would show you that a file was thinking to [TS]

  drop box and then it would go green when it was there that was all using private [TS]

  API's you know dropbox is part and you know to their credit I've been using [TS]

  Dropbox from very early days and I'm very loathe always have been loath to [TS]

  install third-party extensions that are using private API's on Mac OS 10 but [TS]

  dropped by you know Dropbox the features were worth it and but I've always been [TS]

  like one foot you know if I ever see problems of the Finder starts going [TS]

  wacky you know you're out the door but they never really been a problem now [TS]

  they've always been there very very very excellently engineered for something [TS]

  that was using private and i also think it's interesting I always thought when [TS]

  they announced that WWDC I specifically thought about Dropbox a because on the [TS]

  most familiar with them and I use them in be because they had their own thing [TS]

  that was working and in my experience and I think most people experience and [TS]

  I've never heard anybody say while Dropbox Eunos crash makes my computer [TS]

  crash in anything like that or corrupt my file system but they had their own [TS]

  thing would they be willing to dump their own thing that it's been all that [TS]

  work on to use Apple's thing and they did they've done the right thing and I [TS]

  wonder how much of that is you know that they they considered a good allocation [TS]

  of engineering resources to go with the official API's in Yosemite and how much [TS]

  of it do they still have the old stuff give you can still run Dropbox on Mac OS [TS]

  nine [TS]

  had a ten-point 10.9 10.8 10.7 I don't have her back to go so they've still got [TS]

  to keep their their private API stuff going for their support of older [TS]

  versions of Mac OS and so a lot of times I think you know in my experience is [TS]

  watching the way the industry has a lot of times and then you know a company [TS]

  isn't going to go with the new thing because they want to go with the [TS]

  backwards compatible thing even though it's not using a public API but Dropbox [TS]

  did the right thing which in my opinion the right thing which is to go with the [TS]

  official API even though it's sort of foot forrester code and I wonder how [TS]

  much of that was about engineering and how much of it was about politics in [TS]

  keeping a good relationship with Apple yeah I mean I would I won't be surprised [TS]

  about paul worked with them on it in there is a bit of a quid pro quo here [TS]

  like you know you got that it would go like they will help you fix this but you [TS]

  have to Dublin day one and I as a user it was seamless I didn't even notice [TS]

  when they switched over I think at some point because I you know I've been [TS]

  running since the public betas and summer and appreciate the time [TS]

  originally I am almost certain that Dropbox didn't already supported I [TS]

  didn't even notice I actually didn't notice when dropout started supporting [TS]

  it until one day there obviously are because I've got the new style check [TS]

  marks not the ones that are superimposed on the icon yeah it's interesting to you [TS]

  is that I think Karen Levey I haven't really heard him say a bad word about [TS]

  him I think people are just happy that like it's been such a torturous journey [TS]

  for box that they they finally made it it's how I would be surprised there's a [TS]

  bit of like you know cooks is genuinely happy for him [TS]

  gonna take a break before I do it's a good reminder I have a correction to [TS]

  make just a minor one that lasts only a show with Mark oh I forgot we were [TS]

  talking about but I said something about me running I was nine and I what I meant [TS]

  to hide out dial now running I was high and I'm running iOS eight but combine [TS]

  that with the things we're like MacRumors has I can increase in the [TS]

  number of hits from people running iOS 9 from Cupertino and I got it I dunno a [TS]

  dozen emails from people asking whether I'm running iOS nine no I'm not sure if [TS]

  I would be able to say anything about it anyway it was just too stupid but the [TS]

  verbal typo I don't know misspeak there's a better word well whenever a [TS]

  verbal typo is at all it was in the same way that I just said that Dropbox to her [TS]

  back last night yes the nineteen video poker tonight number for you I don't [TS]

  know what to do I don't know some end and I think Mac OS going to ten-point 10 [TS]

  somehow remained crippled amateurs well I said additional verbal typos of things [TS]

  so I can just call it a verbal type of works for me what about mental problems [TS]

  mount prompt the right word I don't think so but I'm about proper no problem [TS]

  is the term for misspoken words there you go [TS]

  yeah no problem the mistaken use of the word in place of a similar sounding one [TS]

  often with on attention [TS]

  well that's not quite right dancing dancer flamingo instead of dancing [TS]

  flamenco although I do make it so [TS]

  I think I do I think that's a characteristic go like someone that like [TS]

  read alot and like you know i mean neither visiting go out that afternoon [TS]

  then you see you encounter a lot of words but there were actually comes to [TS]

  articulate Heisler previous episode about how we constantly mispronounced [TS]

  words yeah yeah you know there's there's a huge chunk of my vocabulary or things [TS]

  that I read when I was growing up and never heard anybody say in so I just [TS]

  made up my own punctuation are pronunciation in my head [TS]

  totally idea of how it was actually supposed to be pronounced anyway our [TS]

  second monster is our good friends at need and II ed need is a refined [TS]

  retailer in lifestyle publication for men as their official slogan my friend [TS]

  Jim ray very well-dressed man knows his stuff really likes this stuff and need [TS]

  as described [TS]

  need as a refined retailer and lifestyle publication from man who generally don't [TS]

  like retailer and lifestyle publications for men which is a great way to put it [TS]

  so if you hear lifestyle publication from an Android your eyes like not for [TS]

  me maybe you should check out need because it's a different style and vibe [TS]

  each month [TS]

  here's what me does a source in curated selection of exclusive products from [TS]

  brands around the world are presented in a monthly editorial not just a catalog [TS]

  they put him in an editorial since they've story around it a lot like what [TS]

  you find in a men's magazine allowing you to find the best products without [TS]

  any need [TS]

  copious shopping research or selection they just launched volume 2.2 featuring [TS]

  items to help you make small meaningful changes in your life from amazing coffee [TS]

  to better shaving to the best bedside clock point to point to is need best [TS]

  collection yet that a good fit [TS]

  they've also just launched seven brand new essentials collections featuring the [TS]

  best denim but we're more haven't done promotional code yet they're coming they [TS]

  are coming they're working on it but in the meantime talk show listeners to [TS]

  place an order with need can just send an email to hello at need eEdition dot [TS]

  com that's their website need eEdition dot com and place an order [TS]

  anywhere then send an email to hello and need addition dot com with the subject [TS]

  line [TS]

  promo code just put promo code in the subject line and you will receive with [TS]

  your order a free bag of freshly roasted coffee or you can get a substitute [TS]

  magazine if you're the sort of terrible person who doesn't like coffee and [TS]

  you'll get 25% off your next order so just go to need addition dot com and [TS]

  need addition dot com slash essentials other things he may be a nurse in the [TS]

  library 4th they're launching their first men's and women's collection for [TS]

  Valentine's Day coming up soon so if you want to get gifts you'll get 25% off [TS]

  your next order when the Valentine's Day stuff comes out and on january 28 [TS]

  they're announcing an all new project called for most sign up at foremost [TS]

  eEdition dot com in your get early access which will be necessary in this [TS]

  instance because they expect to sell out so that any discount any discounts you [TS]

  get from sending the email too low in addition to apply there as well [TS]

  so sign up for most addition Ofori and the West he eEdition dot com you get [TS]

  early access to their next cool project which is sort of secret other than the [TS]

  name so my thanks to its weird I feel I feel over the last few weeks I've [TS]

  encountered a few people that are that don't drink opera give up coffee and I [TS]

  don't understand understand what drives were driving to do such a thing in the [TS]

  global I feel great but that just reminds me of the Frank Sinatra could [TS]

  what is it I kosyrev you they don't drink because when they wake up in the [TS]

  morning that the basic fueled a great line I think about the the BlogHer [TS]

  BlogHer BlogHer drinking routine or something like that [TS]

  basically you teletype it is by what you're drinking in the morning it's [TS]

  coffee then it's like SodaStream and then Scott Soares who died in that [TS]

  attack your martini in your case as well I don't think martinis everyday I'm all [TS]

  over the place on alcohol and trying to expand my palate I just linked to I'm so [TS]

  proud of it i Anna sometimes I really like to I like it when my linking to [TS]

  something like blows it up a guy named you see this is kinda Mark III did I put [TS]

  in my own problems this big book and they don't they don't ship to that one [TS]

  thing the backstory on this is I don't remember where I saw it I don't remember [TS]

  and it's a pre order stuff from Amazon I do it all the time it's like sending [TS]

  gifts to myself because I always forget they always forget and so is like at [TS]

  some point December I got a thing from Amazon and it was close to Christmas [TS]

  really close I might have been like the 23rd or something like that and I had no [TS]

  pending gifts coming everything I had ordered it already shown up [TS]

  got everything done that you know not last minute and and I think a man I [TS]

  assumed it was from my wife and instead it was addressed to me from Amazon [TS]

  should I don't know I don't have no idea what this is opening up in here it is [TS]

  the whiskey cabinet this beautiful beautiful book by Mark and then I [TS]

  remembered [TS]

  couple months ago i pre-ordered this year it is this book is beautiful it is [TS]

  beautiful photography beautiful paper beautiful typography and you know and I [TS]

  couldn't wait to read I was very excited and went up and it is so it's such a [TS]

  weird coincidence cuz you know I'm terrible I I'll go days I did I [TS]

  literally go days without checking my email sometimes it's just talking about [TS]

  this like a get less email them like when I worked at Microsoft for example [TS]

  way less but it's so much more roberta now because it's not my job is pure [TS]

  additive whereas before I lived in it so it was it was like almost more tolerable [TS]

  this was a day where I'd gotten caught up on my inbox and I you know down to [TS]

  the inbox zero at least through like this week and I do new emails one was [TS]

  junk and the other was from Marc by locking as I why that's crazy the same [TS]

  guys name isn't on the book and he's like hey you know no idea if interested [TS]

  I just written a book ski you may be interested [TS]

  no no you know I know no pressure to Lincoln operating I just thought you [TS]

  might want a complimentary copy tell me where to send someone literally after it [TS]

  right after answered the ding dong of the UPS giving me the book that I'd paid [TS]

  for so I snapped a photo with my phone and I was like to late i pre-ordered it [TS]

  months ago which is an amazing story anyway long story short I read the book [TS]

  and I loved it so I looked it up [TS]

  during parable and sold out in like dead like were more from his publisher [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  know I love you I i can certainly relate I mean I think I mean back when I had my [TS]

  first I mean I started her career with the I had a five year plan like I [TS]

  thought maybe in five years I could make a living from it and then I will back [TS]

  Taiwan in you know which is we want to do and and obviously it's taken off far [TS]

  more quickly than than than I anticipated I have not even two years [TS]

  old yet but by now be the big the real big jump was told the story that i truly [TS]

  believe you linking to it and saying it was great new bloggers like that but it [TS]

  was funny about it in sorry about all this one before but I got an email from [TS]

  you like saying oh you are you been really prolific really great stuff by [TS]

  the way I noticed in you like win on this like three paragraph dissertation [TS]

  on a bad word choice I had made the same mistake as well as I actually have a [TS]

  script and fix it I do away with the etymology of the word in the house use [TS]

  us and it was it was so classic like John Gruber that you know anyone by the [TS]

  badge in its own right after that I can open up Google Analytics I saw it [TS]

  refreshing your page on the company's going to be like like 30 minutes later [TS]

  boom there it was all take the opportunity now being so to thank you [TS]

  for that because it certainly was a good no I think I would like $600 on Twitter [TS]

  and within a couple days I had 1500 and I was there got white since then but [TS]

  that there was certainly kind of the the ignition or jump start so thanks John I [TS]

  do that if I see a typo or something like that and something I'm going to [TS]

  link to do try to kind and I never know the person at all [TS]

  do try to tell them it before but I never say that I'm going to link to it [TS]

  because I I don't know if you don't like yourself in [TS]

  well partly I don't want to lock myself in what if I change my mind but I think [TS]

  you know what does not work and the other part is it somehow sounds a little [TS]

  presumptuous its to me it's like if I just say hey you have a typo here it's [TS]

  like i'm doing you a favor and pointing it out if I said you know I'm about to [TS]

  leave you be of a typo it so it feels a little bit more like I'm not linked into [TS]

  into you fix this type of ya right and and I don't want to put that you know I [TS]

  don't want to put any pressure on you should find out there were doors look at [TS]

  the email later but I am i that made me think that book by Marc by a lot because [TS]

  the whole just to the book is it's it's not comprehensive it's not encyclopedia [TS]

  is just a sort of I would guess maybe like a hundred whiskies from around the [TS]

  world you know [TS]

  Scotland Ireland United States Canada Japan and like his expert opinion and [TS]

  discussion on what makes the different region you know what are the traditions [TS]

  and what makes them different than what you should be looking for sure you know [TS]

  if you like one and you know I'm mostly a USB urban ride drinker but you know I [TS]

  really liked it and so I've been trying to expand my palate the body not being [TS]

  comprehensive like that just makes so much more accessible right again I have [TS]

  from years and years ago [TS]

  unfortunately coincidental named Michael Jackson is a famous famous beer writer [TS]

  like I drank beer a lot more before I got into any kind of spirits [TS]

  and it's a useful it's just a different type of book by Michael Jackson has like [TS]

  book thats encyclopedic it is no I guess so many microbrews I don't think anybody [TS]

  could cover them all but it I think it's probably more like thousands of years [TS]

  then hundreds of years ya know yet exactly and I share the fee for the beer [TS]

  by the way did find the email I wrote I wrote this jives with data showing [TS]

  little gallery in entered purchases I visit dance or an additive for us' black [TS]

  slang the word he want his job and this is what killed me if you add verb [TS]

  bracket no objective bracket informal be an accord semicolon agree arguing like [TS]

  literally a dictionary definition it wasn't like this is what it reads it was [TS]

  like they had the nomenclature of a definition that like I know this because [TS]

  I have was always to use job with the G when I met je and yes he said you you [TS]

  create a Texas better step it to fix it automatically still every time I try to [TS]

  use a house used the wrong [TS]

  well as you know confusing enough jobs of her means make insulting remarks deer [TS]

  which is actually very closely awesome use of diet which is tighter sneer at [TS]

  right now very confusing wait so which is the one we want me to say that it's [TS]

  an agreement with something jibe GI ve your problem is using CIB and I said [TS]

  jail which is like a right right right right yeah actually now that I think [TS]

  about it I think I've finally gotten it down and I do tend to tape it right as [TS]

  if I had to guess I would have raised their I would have guessed ji be so that [TS]

  that's that's the word job that's the tape thingy get when your house with [TS]

  your ability to help you determine that whether you find that endearing or just [TS]

  absolutely you're dating also some sad news report and that Michael Jackson the [TS]

  bureau hundred died in 2006 [TS]

  so I can but his his world guide beer I don't know how many years anyway it's [TS]

  not that type of book that was cabinet it's like I said 200 I don't book but [TS]

  it's just a couple from each region in the style it's too bad for Michael [TS]

  Jackson that he never like he did in his life where he was doing michael Jackson [TS]

  that's right I guess he died first wow that's really a shame and a little bit [TS]

  of that with that Jonathan Gruber his daughter how what percentage of those [TS]

  trees did you read to eat i'd say maybe 10% oh wow so it was quite a few and [TS]

  they were all areas that was that was a real quick on and off like a weeklong [TS]

  fire storm and I do think I thank the maker that the guys name is Jonathan not [TS]

  john i dont have it goes by John or what [TS]

  first when it first started breaking there was an awful lot more John [TS]

  Gruber's and he said you know because it's Jonathan aids jail and so it is [TS]

  spelled differently but that's certainly I mean I you know when you are named [TS]

  John you're very sensitive to the age no age thing but you know let's face it you [TS]

  know that's very typical mistake you know after I well I'd say a third of the [TS]

  Valentines I got an elementary school [TS]

  a third respond correctly and a third were spared jail in H I can totally [TS]

  sympathize because I'm I'm I'm Benjamin Thompson and Thompson [TS]

  actually has like multiple spellings like the ride was the peak at piano it's [TS]

  so unfair because I both have ass boring name and I have to spell it all the time [TS]

  like you should be one of the other likely view all the time it's because [TS]

  you have a really kickass name that knows her before but now that I'm [TS]

  interested I'm just Benjamin Thompson so right so somebody does something famous [TS]

  or infamous named Ben Thomson nopee is not the same name as you but you're [TS]

  gonna get completed it will I do appreciate that my nemesis on Google is [TS]

  trying to be the top result for Ben Thompson which I O Donnell was armed Ben [TS]

  Thompson lawmen [TS]

  Emma hack the top article from is badass of the week I'm gonna give you the cell [TS]

  when I'll get confused at the baddest of the week [TS]

  wow I just notice I just haven't done this in a while if it's true for you for [TS]

  years I i I gave up on it I was not the top searched Google for grouper just [TS]

  grouper it was always Gruber industries that people have but this might be [TS]

  because what do you get if you search Google for group A during 5 I'll see I [TS]

  get different get / if I'm not signed the united with economist and [TS]

  then daring fireballs next in the jungle between her but it is cos I'm in Taiwan [TS]

  so there's all that stuff that affects it would be paying your balance an [TS]

  example I miss my connection I haven't searched for years I i cos I honestly [TS]

  don't I don't know I'm vain in other ways but I'm not supplied realize I i [TS]

  have good enough Google but use to come up first for years and years [TS]

  and years it's some kind of industrial company down in Arizona who got the [TS]

  domain name in 1993 much to my chagrin I can't help but think I've never really [TS]

  heard anything about them I can't help but think that there was some kind of [TS]

  rearranging of Google's algorithm that they used to favor search term in [TS] over anything else for years and years and years but group icon doesn't [TS]

  even show up my first page stupid Jonathan Gruber got it anyway the best [TS]

  thing that happened with that was that at some point during the week where he [TS]

  was really in the new people who don't know I don't he said something about [TS]

  like Obama Care passed by [TS]

  because people are stupid or something like that he is a world renowned [TS]

  economist at MIT and his specialty is healthcare legislature [TS]

  and he wrote Massachusetts law or helped write the Massachusetts health care law [TS]

  that Mitt Romney when it it's just want to get into the politics of it but this [TS]

  week [TS]

  week [TS]

  weird situation where it was a health care law gave everybody in Massachusetts [TS]

  universal health care coverage in a republican style because they had a [TS]

  republican governor who eventually went on a run for president and the way that [TS]

  President Obama went about trying to get health care was instead of pursuing a [TS]

  traditionally democratic style you know which is angled a single pair with a [TS]

  look I just want people to have health care let's go the Republican rout and [TS]

  and you know follow the Massachusetts model and you know ended up being you [TS]

  know obviously it's a political happened anyway he was also a consultant on the [TS]

  national version of this law and then years ago this is what they do weird [TS]

  thing about it is that it wasn't something he said recently but it was a [TS]

  years ago it's some kind of conference for other economist so it wasn't [TS]

  speaking to the public had known you know was being videotaped obviously but [TS]

  you know he's not a politician wasn't gonna go spread wide it was this [TS]

  discussion about how the word tax is just toxic in American political culture [TS]

  and so to pay for the new health care law they couldn't call anything they did [TS]

  to raise money for the tax and so they called it I don't want the subsidy [TS]

  instead there some kind of way that through the vagaries of the way that the [TS]

  U S Congress budget department classifies different types of [TS]

  legislature it wouldn't be called attacks because the subsidy but it's a [TS]

  rose by any other name its people paying more money to a collection that would [TS]

  then be distributed to pay for the mechanics of the law and his explanation [TS]

  was very honest but it was more or less that you know american voters are too [TS]

  stupid to know the difference that calling it something else doesn't make [TS]

  it something which is true in a sense and I mean that in a way that but it was [TS]

  taken by Republicans as an insult that he was that it was passed under false [TS]

  pretenses in [TS]

  he became you know public enemy number one of american republicans and an awful [TS]

  lot of them to be needed a driver at Gruber was that they would like even if [TS]

  they went so far as to see you what at Gruber was and then saw it was in fact [TS]

  somebody named John Gruber weather ahead nature not and he had a bunch of [TS]

  followers they just assumed it was him and so for about a week I was inundated [TS]

  with glittery alec and and I think part of it is that you had to make a mistake [TS]

  to do that which increased the chance that the people doing it weren't really [TS]

  the sharpest pencil that in the case so I took a retreating some of them it was [TS]

  it was interesting if you know if you think that like the vitriol that I i get [TS]

  you know from that say andrade fanatics when I say something disparaging about [TS]

  Android or something like that if you think that's harsh the way that the [TS]

  political stuff is is just unbelievable it's it's it's it's incredible people I [TS]

  mean seriously saying things like you know go kill yourself at grouper I mean [TS]

  no no exaggeration and I dunno it just occurred to me and I would write back to [TS]

  some of them some of them I would retreat [TS]

  some of them I would tweak a little and then some of them I would just write [TS]

  back totally honest it's like did you you know what were you thinking you know [TS]

  you thinking that I would see this when you wrote you know what goes through [TS]

  your mind if you're doing that do you do you assume do you think that the [TS]

  Jonathan Gruber was going to read that and perhaps feel bad about himself [TS]

  because you're somebody wishing you would kill him like himself white why [TS]

  would you rate that like what is going through your mind how can you go through [TS]

  your day with so much hate it was interesting to me it's like the extreme [TS]

  opposite alike were attacked while before I go abilities Alexia product or [TS]

  someone's eyes it's like just a complete and utter lack of empathy yeah [TS]

  and you know I could you go through the rest of your life like that or desist [TS]

  only spew out on Twitter and there were a few people who I tweet that told some [TS]

  people that we were I was gonna next the next step is we're gonna come take until [TS]

  next year we will become take your guns into health care issue nearly got like [TS]

  to see you try and say we're on our way [TS]

  tell some of these people are coming to take their guns and it really grab some [TS]

  of those are the best anyway that's the most part but it really elevated this [TS]

  guy in the Twitter rankings for group of them geez anyway but it's the best thing [TS]

  to happen I know it was fox in particular it would really help to but [TS]

  Fox News it was very clear to me like probably the second most interested [TS]

  observer in the country that they they there must have been a memo that [TS]

  circulated with Anna and I know I don't think of anything to do with me and i [TS]

  ended with me but they they they clarify they they unified on Jonathan Gruber [TS]

  instead of John group MIT economist at first when the whole thing first broke [TS]

  it was like half and half or they would spell it J when spell out the whole [TS]

  Jonathan and about halfway through the week Fox started consistently calling [TS]

  and Jonathan Gruber and it helped a lot I think interesting well maybe you know [TS]

  your friendship with a great morrison helped out there you know I thought [TS]

  about it I actually had was like at the it's funny cuz I was thinking about it [TS]

  and I was halfway thinking maybe I should write to clean [TS]

  and and just say you know I know you can do about this whole thing but if you [TS]

  could just pass away her and a colleague I Jonathan said of john I would [TS]

  appreciate it but I never even had to do that it seemed like Fox it happened on [TS]

  the toe much much to the decrease in entertainment for the rest of us only [TS]

  thing I could see in the news this week was other than that big microsoft said [TS]

  you want to talk about but you see mark fuhrman's report on Apple watch so yeah [TS]

  yeah which is a little weird I thought the more interesting thing that he had [TS]

  was that according to mark Gurman an unnamed source at Apple that they have [TS]

  three thousand units already in use by Apple employees although he doesn't say [TS]

  by Apple bees but from what I understand you know I I had heard a few weeks ago [TS]

  that there were a thousand and use the government says three thousand could [TS]

  just be that they've expanded it but it's all that they are all in the hand [TS]

  about you you have to think it's relatively easy to pull off anymore even [TS]

  more so than that then a phone I mean I guess the screen being black is a bit of [TS]

  a giveaway by I mean I watched watches watching closely now I mean in [TS]

  California never gets particularly cold but people more like you wearing long [TS]

  sleeves and jackets and that I thought 4 weeks are gonna hurt weeks ago that [TS]

  there were a thousand of them in use I was a little surprised we haven't seen [TS]

  marks I remember in the six-month run up to the iPhone coming out there were none [TS]

  of them least it wasn't like the time the iPhone 4 was found in a bar but [TS]

  there were like a steady stream of tears if there's a blurry shot of a guy on [TS]

  BART who was using an iPhone until I took out my camera phone to take a [TS]

  picture of him in any put it back in his pocket you know but they were always [TS]

  there is a steady stream of reports of people who'd spotted Apple employees [TS]

  with iPhones before it came out attended UT and I haven't seen this single people [TS]

  anybody saying [TS]

  you know I saw a guy with an Apple watch such as it got to the point I think it's [TS]

  you know I think it's a good you said watch is just too especially if you're [TS]

  being even just a little bit circumspect about when you take it out when you're [TS]

  not at work or home it's really really hard to notice that somebody's gotta [TS]

  watch that said I mean I mean I saw someone using using a smart watch the [TS]

  other day and it was it was the privacy thing as much so maybe they're they're [TS]

  just not using them in public maybe that's part of the instruction yeah well [TS]

  my understanding is the instruction is very likely use it and take it and if [TS]

  anybody even asks there are allowed to say yes it's not a watch I work for [TS]

  Apple but they're not allowed to take it off and are not allowed to do any kind [TS]

  of demonstration yeah and they are but they're allowed to say but I'm not [TS]

  allowed to do it and that's when the benefits of having announced it already [TS]

  is exactly right there's nothing to hide and and what you see when you're not [TS]

  using it is all you know you'll get a much better view of it on then [TS]

  you will on somebody's rest it's interesting I think the last time we [TS]

  were talking a lot to watch it is funny because I I have a spidey sense when [TS]

  you're gonna beat me on the taxol as I kind of a kind of every idea that I this [TS]

  week was gonna be well as weeks are musically with with the whites think [TS]

  privatization [TS]

  just to be clear I asked you to be on about 30 so it's a little exaggeration [TS]

  but I swear to God today I went to the gym I came back and I was I don't know [TS]

  why I was thinking about was listening to was working out and I was like I [TS]

  think I actually I thought Johnson had me on this and then take 30 minutes [TS]

  later and as a little but one thing with the watch is another problem actually [TS]

  pretty entry about is the Amazon echo [TS]

  book acts in your room and the reason I am i matching much more intrigued by [TS]

  that never was by the fire of phone you know I think people dismissed out of [TS]

  hand because it came on the heels of the faithful but it sounds stupid but the [TS]

  idea of just like talking to something instead of like pulling your pocket and [TS]

  then talking to it or with the watch is looking at your wrist and set up your [TS]

  phone in looking at something like it sounds it sounds so trivial but like [TS]

  convenience always wins its conveniences had multiplied by all the times that [TS]

  they matter end up being a big deal and and its fine anything that kind of mixed [TS]

  reviews but I'm still a lot of people there are people who do really like it [TS]

  and I think it's it's because it's a it's in a similar vein to what I think [TS]

  the watch is going to be where it hits you don't have to realize in to use it [TS]

  like how it just makes life a little bit west little more frictionless and the [TS]

  idea of it being the center is a long ways off just for all the technical [TS]

  reasons more than anything but i think is always convenient is always easier to [TS]

  see backwards and forwards yes yes it more easy to tell how much you [TS]

  appreciate it when it's taken away and when you first get it always you know [TS]

  and it's the same way that like when you go back to an older iPhone it makes your [TS]

  current iPhone feel so much faster than it felt when you first got the new [TS]

  iPhone you get a new iPhone next you next generation a whatever chip like wow [TS]

  this is great as a lot faster if you put it down and take your year old old one [TS]

  or two year old ones especially like a two year old when you're like holy shit [TS]

  this is so Jagan's [TS]

  you know coming out of college and your first appointment and has a dishwasher [TS]

  near like great this is great I love having a dishwasher well when your [TS]

  dishwasher breaks and you don't have it anymore you're like holy shit how do I [TS]

  live without a dishwasher right now I have and I think I think you know that [TS]

  voice could be something like that [TS]

  no i i agree and I think he's one of those things where if you i mean it's [TS]

  easy to look back and just like I really think that people said I when the phone [TS]

  came out it's like what I could do this I can do so on a computer I can do this [TS]

  or with the iPad price as more than anything [TS]

  making it just a little bit easier [TS]

  makes makes a really big difference and I think that that's a good vector to [TS]

  work at any new product like it does it does it make wife just a little bit [TS]

  easier if it does then that product probably has a chance [TS]

  the thing I didn't understand about Amazon echo when they announced today [TS]

  announced it and I watched their video with the family you know using it I [TS]

  didn't understand that it was going to be invitation-only for some period of [TS]

  time they've actually was just tell me he was thinking about getting one but it [TS]

  take you don't buy one you can't just buy one you go to the site and request [TS]

  an invitation to buy yeah it's actually just in India thing is I just got a [TS]

  request just got granted citizenship in three to four months or something like [TS]

  that I am i suspect like they just got burned so badly by the phone that they [TS]

  way they got way too conservative like the older corrected and it's really hard [TS]

  to wrap something and if you if you kind of started out with the assumption we're [TS]

  going to sell 800,000 units you know million orders like it's not just that [TS]

  you're behind million orders that but that debt being behind that of compounds [TS]

  so it's interesting though I do think that you know like you said there is [TS]

  something and this is the closest to the house style interface 2001 right where [TS]

  what was the interface with how on the discovery it was just [TS]

  talk to how you know there was no button to push there is nothing you don't have [TS]

  to go to push a button to start talking to him you just talk to him because he [TS]

  was always listening know that the thing it so when you look at any new product [TS]

  you think it's so easy to 20 made a bigger card for my podcast exponent and [TS]

  a notorious worries over index I'm going to use it so easy to over index on what [TS]

  the product is today but to evaluate if you think about what's this product will [TS]

  be after three or four iterations and I for example the original Kindle at the [TS]

  resort condo is a piece of crap him he looked terrible and I felt terrible like [TS]

  he was so obvious that this is how we're gonna read books going forward right in [TS]

  once it's thin and easy to hold and exiting the version to control what was [TS]

  was very good they they actually there's a huge dump 122 but I think that that's [TS]

  something we'll see with the iPhone I think that's something with something [TS]

  like the echo and I think I i think will be the case of the washes well where [TS]

  it's not just have to look at not just is what it can do right now and what [TS]

  capabilities right now or battery life it is right now if you think about what [TS]

  is this gonna be in five years and can you see a path from here to there any [TS]

  that path is a path that's easily understandable as in like our chips [TS]

  gonna get more efficient yes yes American approved not as fast as those [TS]

  are you more efficient but yes they're going to improve like theirs in its just [TS]

  like you have to put yourself in the shoes of a new user it seems sort of [TS]

  thing you'll get a prosecutor just to be able to assimilate what you know about [TS]

  the way technology progresses and that's how you evaluate a product not you can [TS]

  evaluate an inversion one now one of the interesting things about echoes to me is [TS]

  the first new product from any of these companies in my memory where battery is [TS]

  an issue as its not battery-operated some people yeah when's the last time [TS]

  someone come out with something [TS]

  that doesn't isn't battery-operated it's you know that that fascinating to me [TS]

  because it's just hasn't happened so it's a great point yeah I think we've [TS]

  already talked about legality sold traded or there is a future I can plug [TS]

  it in and I talked about that it's it's it's it's your home your home assistant [TS]

  lot of ways I think the problem is obviously is you know there they don't [TS]

  have the entire like they don't have the mall companion really to go with it [TS]

  which obviously the phone their phone was intended to be I would imagine but [TS]

  but still I think I think the concept is at least compelling if if echo is in it [TS]

  I wouldn't be surprised if you know in five ten years we all have a similar [TS]

  sort of device in our house that we just talk to ya I wonder I wonder if it's [TS]

  already in the works [TS]

  you know whatever the next generation Apple TV is is always listening Xbox [TS]

  Microsoft started with Xbox for awhile word turnover is it ok Xbox something [TS]

  like that it's been a trigger for you been able to give vocal commands to your [TS]

  Xbox for yeah I think gone back to the lab previous Xbox 360 diabetes it seems [TS]

  like an obvious thing for the Apple TV own men talk about appropriate stagnated [TS]

  yeah well I think that's basically I don't know if they've missed the [TS]

  deadline [TS]

  you know something is slipped or wide but there's clearly something is coming [TS]

  I mean at this point I would say I probably would have bet on something you [TS]

  know a year ago we talk to your guy probably would have been on some kind of [TS]

  new Apple TV at the end of 2014 so at this point I would call it overdue and I [TS]

  kind of expect to see more [TS]

  I wouldn't be shocked if we don't see it in 2015 cause I know maybe they've but [TS]

  if we're talking a year from now on Eastern Avenue truly new Apple TV then [TS]

  then I would hear from now I would think maybe they've written maybe they've yeah [TS]

  I was like that's why men like saving as in like the Mac Pro stagnated like so [TS]

  you either it's dying or its because there is a wholesale and awake refreshed [TS]

  coming their way yet they're waiting on something some kind of hardware and/or [TS]

  software that they need to make the one they want to make and it's not really [TS]

  giving up on it though because I especially me think that home kid is is [TS]

  important even though we haven't heard a ton about it and an Apple TV is pretty [TS]

  important home kit so I don't think they would do that if it was something they [TS]

  were giving up on here and at the very least even in the Apple TV as well you [TS]

  need something in your house always plugged in to make home kill release in [TS]

  and so why not just make it a thing he put their TVs and everybody has a TV [TS]

  know right like it doesn't have to be Apple TV could be anything but why not [TS]

  just make it up to ya know I have always thought I mean I i've i've I want that [TS]

  like this they're going to unify like the router and the Apple TV and you know [TS]

  that would have taken some lag issues for one for a fair play if you like if [TS]

  the output ecosystem as a break running off an iPhone or whatever maybe but now [TS]

  I was the idea that you before like they're being an echo types typing angle [TS]

  to it as well I think it makes i mean obviously Syria would be involved in it [TS]

  but having it be kind of a an assistant to talk to i think is is really [TS]

  compelling I thought about that two years ago that why why not combine Apple [TS]

  TV with the airport router [TS]

  so then there's only one thing to plug in and I didn't think the latency is [TS]

  even did system plus I'm just thinking they'd just one thing plugged in but [TS]

  your cable thing in the back but the power plug in and you're done and then a [TS]

  kind of thought maybe not when I got the latest generation airport which was so [TS]

  much bigger right but I think I mean I think then but that has that has the [TS]

  that's an actual rather like it has multiple ports and stuff like that I I [TS]

  think the Airport Express is probably a fuller expression of like Apple's ideal [TS]

  router and always well my understanding is that the reason that the new airport [TS]

  extreme is so tall is that it was and who knows you know who knows how long [TS]

  was in the works you know with Steve Jobs being gone but it was just purely [TS]

  engineering that having antennas that are up bigger antennas that iraq has a [TS]

  big part of why it's better reception to your house [TS]

  whereas the old whereas the older ones that were somewhat smaller were always [TS]

  constrained terms of the energy you know the power of there in 10 writers like [TS]

  the Super like one green ones have like actual antennas that like stick up so [TS]

  it's a little bit more of a practical design than a you know it's it's [TS]

  function over form but I don't know it might be a hard sell when all the other [TS]

  boxes are so small and old Apple TV was so small they say your new Apple TV is [TS]

  ten times yeah good point I don't know you know but on the other hand hate to [TS]

  put this one thing and it's compelling government thing was all about how the [TS]

  battery sucks on Apple watch what I say to me that's like no surprise of course [TS]

  it does of course that's the biggest thing that holding them up I mean I need [TS]

  sources to take that yeah i mean the thing I've always kind of [TS]

  maintained about the [TS]

  about the Malta watches 24 he just has to get you through the day and the funk [TS]

  the way to address battery life is not to make like week one bear away for a [TS]

  month on battery life it's to make better wife that is to make the [TS]

  functionality so great that you're willing to put up with charging all the [TS]

  time and that like that's what they do with the phone right iPhone iPhone [TS]

  battery wife relative to our old phones is still drastically worse than it was [TS]

  before but we don't care about that because the functionality is so superior [TS]

  that we put up with charging it like it's assumed they were gonna carry just [TS]

  like you go around you can go to any shopping mall here and there's walkers [TS]

  and you walk in the door even paid to pull your phone and likely though you go [TS]

  shopping [TS]

  charge like that's kind of crazy but it's it's it's not crazy anymore because [TS]

  that's of course why wouldn't you want you know it's gonna give up [TS]

  functionality to get better battery life today just like every every time an [TS]

  airport is a new terminal is added or terminal is is refurbished it's always [TS]

  you know the huge factor is getting power outlets 222 more people [TS]

  yeah yeah it's a fresh includes an airport with no power outlets in the [TS]

  huddle around there it's it you know it is like it's nobody had the idea but [TS]

  it's not just you know dystopian science fiction future come to life [TS]

  body weight around sucking up like rows of seats in know it's in there was [TS]

  before I like the one pillar that like outlets with it it's interesting as i've [TS]

  eventually that'll happen don't remember and an adjacent schnauzer in about this [TS]

  lately we're clearly Apple has these target numbers in mind [TS]

  Lake X number of hours for an iPhone and 10 hours battery life [TS]

  mad and they stick to the iPad particularly like it's been dead solid [TS]

  every single iPad and they have that number in their head and then they just [TS]

  keep making the devices and as they possibly can walk hitting that number [TS]

  you know and it's every single year when I funds come out and every other year [TS]

  when the new generation comes out it so much thinner there's a decent chunk of [TS]

  people who have you know personally have different set of priorities who say why [TS]

  couldn't they just make it as thick as the last one which was plenty thing and [TS]

  just give me more battery life but eventually that's going to happen [TS]

  because it happened with laptops laptops MacBooks howard got like three to four [TS]

  hours of battery life [TS]

  year after year after year after year after year and then all of a sudden boom [TS]

  you know shut up to seven eight nine hours of battery life and eventually [TS]

  happened phones like eventually will have an iPhone then getting dinner [TS]

  instead gives you like you go two or three days without [TS]

  obviously I'm I'm I'm not the right person to measure this cause I worked [TS]

  from home but the iPhone 6 my favorite feature even more than than having a [TS]

  larger screen is that I never were better life anymore [TS]

  again like I i plug in more than most people and I've heard from people that [TS]

  yeah it's still not good enough but for me anyway like it it's it's crossed that [TS]

  line compared to the 5s which if I was always worried about it [TS]

  yeah now I'm going to Disney World's good test for me because it used used to [TS]

  reach you know I'd need my movie to get through a day and I don't anymore or any [TS]

  kind of travel day any kind of day where are you know in an airport and going [TS]

  somewhere in doing all of my computing from the phone always you still need a [TS]

  movie night don't generally anymore [TS]

  is mark fuhrman's reporting 2.5 24 hours of active application use of that seems [TS]

  pretty good to me I mean I yeah I think that's all it's interesting because I'm [TS]

  sure that those you know he's got great sources and I'm sure they're real [TS]

  numbers but I i feel like it's hard to think about that as a user because from [TS]

  a user's perspective you're not going to think about stuff like that and in [TS]

  particular the other when you called I agree I think that's actually pretty [TS]

  good considering how I think we'll be using these things the other one was the [TS]

  time telling and the time telling as I understand it i've heard from people is [TS]

  so the watches office the time or the faces off right and it has to be because [TS]

  it's you know we don't know yet whether its older LCD I think it might be some [TS]

  kind of older though because they are using black as the background instead of [TS]

  white but regardless of any kind of color screen like that whatever the [TS]

  technologies you know the the biggest power have a new device so it offers the [TS]

  time my understanding is that they've put like inordinate like a huge chunk [TS]

  the whole three year-long effort there have been teams devoted to it that are [TS]

  18 devoted to it is that when you twist your arm wrist to look at the time it is [TS]

  already you know it turns on the detection of this is the type of motion [TS]

  of a person checking the time [TS]

  is like an A one priority for the thing and that apparently it works really [TS]

  already works really really well it's very very smart about turning on when [TS]

  you want to look at it but then when you turn your respect it goes off so I [TS]

  forgot how long it's like three hours ago white last three hours of continuous [TS]

  telling the time or something like that and the other thing with the only thing [TS]

  with that is I think this is the one thing that really kinda tracks from the [TS]

  watches fashion accessory thing because the guy in the face of a watch is is [TS]

  super important to its being a fashion accessories like you they can have [TS]

  beautiful bands they can have a beautiful case but if it's just a black [TS]

  box it's then that there is an area where I believe if they were ever to get [TS]

  to a point where they could actually have those watch faces on all the time I [TS]

  think that would be a that would be a big deal just from from I mean if they [TS]

  could do it they weren't but they were using our pajamas podcasting what went [TS]

  on the fashion experts but I do think the ad then that will be winning if they [TS]

  can get to that point I think that will be there will be a big deal right but [TS]

  it's definitely in this you know you know their Apple clearly is going way [TS]

  more as this is a watch watch and we're you know we're going right up against [TS]

  any watch brand you want than anybody else that the SmartWatch game but [TS]

  clearly one of the areas where they just can't compete is the fact like you said [TS]

  that the faces black you know and and whatever choice you make in terms of [TS]

  which style of of the many that they offer from fruit for your watchtower [TS]

  has no bearing on what other people see when they see it on your right you know [TS]

  the guy across from you in the aisle on the train is not moving his wrister [TS]

  checking the time are you see as a as an Apple ID you have no idea what face is [TS]

  that says that that's definitely a factor there's it's there's no getting [TS]

  around what's interesting is it least four at the beginning before they are [TS]

  obviously Apple would like them to be as widespread as phones but if you think [TS]

  back when the phone iPhone first came out like it was it said something that [TS]

  you had an iPhone it was it was obvious that you had one in there weren't very [TS]

  many people that had one and so it's almost like it's not that big a deal at [TS]

  the beginning because just seeing that that black square will be meaningful [TS]

  enough whereas once in in ideally once they get to the point if they're [TS]

  successful and they become ubiquitous that by that point the power management [TS]

  will also be the point where they can be fully customized in on all the time in [TS]

  end or fulfill that kinda like personal personalized fashion bangle yeah yeah I [TS]

  read it some time how much you can tell the time but how much how long screen so [TS]

  it can be on for three hours that's sounds pretty good because it doesn't [TS]

  seem to me like you would it doesn't seem like how could you spent 13 hours [TS]

  looking at the little things right exactly how you if you're if you're [TS]

  gonna be interacting with them that long you might as well take your phone right [TS]

  three thousand users but I wonder how many separate seems like a lot but again [TS]

  a lot for it not to athlete but on the other hand maybe it's a lot easier to [TS]

  conceal will be interesting and it soon [TS]

  yeah yeah what do you think that government said that still on pace to [TS]

  ship at the end of March I i seemed seems reasonable I i suspect they were [TS]

  shooting for February you know just made for the Chinese market might change your [TS]

  super late this year people get cash for Chinese New Year but so I if it's with a [TS]

  well it's super this would include make it but still it's still early in the [TS]

  year you I I don't think I would I would of course you know mark fuhrman is [TS]

  number one in pointing out that simple products released throughout 2014 and [TS]

  they didn't really say anything to the second half of the year but that said I [TS]

  think that he won't drop a date lately [TS]

  yeah I don't know I'm starting March is impressive it ships by March because I [TS]

  know my impression from you people I secondhand all second him know [TS]

  first-hand information is wearing one but second information you know people [TS]

  who are aware is that still buggy enough and have enough battery life in March [TS]

  would be an achievement because you know if it's too buggy into the battery life [TS]

  is too bad there's no its not gonna come out in March [TS]

  you know there they have the wiggle room to push it until april and May are even [TS]

  June June I'll give you know people will roll their eyes because it's about as [TS]

  late as early 2015 can be but you know they have that we're going to be any [TS]

  different impressions matter right it would be better to have people [TS]

  complaining that june is pretty damn late for early to that you know [TS]

  quote-unquote early 2015 then to ship in March just to hit the first quarter and [TS]

  you know how to be riddled with bugs are not make it through the day when you [TS]

  think you so i cant I made a note here when you're talking about [TS]

  can't talk about the fire phone without talking about Austin cars it's not new I [TS]

  guess it was a [TS]

  sometime in the last month his fast company piece on the making fire from [TS]

  Shirley ready I was glad in it that's right that's right that's right I [TS]

  remember that it's actually one of the things that should have been on the show [TS]

  this week actually remember that it wasn't I thought it was a tremendous [TS]

  piece of retaliation he talked to a lot of people are mean and got you know a [TS]

  lot of inside people at 1:26 that was definitely very compelling and if you [TS]

  have already shared a link in the show's accidentally during gonna be linked on [TS]

  during variable in between us recording and and the show airing it up in the [TS]

  shuttle to but it's just a tremendous piece of reporting in rather scathing [TS]

  it's interesting because the one he talked about exams in not being focused [TS]

  and that's a common critique that in the Apple family how about Amazon but [TS]

  actually when I told them this I talked to him [TS]

  Amazon's at that can accompany like Amazon is in many respects the anti [TS]

  Apple or the bizarro apple and like the the way the company works internally is [TS]

  it's a lot of companies some of the more mature companies that throw off cash and [TS]

  some of them are start-ups that devour cash and because they're all under one [TS]

  roof that money can be funneled from the ones doing off but he doesn't need it [TS]

  and and insulted there are lots of groups that that that kind of stuff do [TS]

  you want to hazard a comet's like one website but actually like there's the [TS]

  clothing section in there is the car section and all these are within Amazon [TS]

  completely separate groups and they have their own their own procuring managers [TS]

  at their own marketing managers they have their own their own PL's it's like [TS]

  it's the exact opposite structure from the way Apple is set up and in its meant [TS]

  to almost be like a self in computer in a lot of ways [TS]

  and so from that perspective to say that Amazon's doing this like the phone can [TS]

  fit in that and actually almost if you look at this way and that if you accept [TS]

  that this is the way Amazon is going to operate my critique of the phone and [TS]

  what I took away from the reporting is that Jeff Bezos in particular was too [TS]

  focused on the phone and like heeey got too obsessed with it and then when it [TS]

  kind of breed and go through a natural sort of like startup process and that [TS]

  more than anything was was in he's got a blind spot about white the viability of [TS]

  this product which which I mean everyone was kinda knew was a lot of us are [TS]

  saying there is no point to add for the council was announced it was like what [TS]

  you know what this makes no sense it's it's a cautionary tale I i think that [TS]

  you get so wrapped up in something you you lose all perspective that get back [TS]

  to my argument earlier in the show with forestall and the ability to look at it [TS]

  like an interface and say you know what we put a lot of friends but this is crap [TS]

  we need to scrap this right you get too close to it and you lose ya ass to meet [TS]

  the same type of thing that you can I can see how it happened [TS]

  you know because I know that's just human nature but I mean the just the big [TS]

  is that all this emphasis and it came from users directly [TS]

  was on this 3d whatever they call it you know the camera centers on the front of [TS]

  me a face to face that you don't need glasses for on the screen and the the [TS]

  the on within the team there was some you know it's a neat trick it's a neat [TS]

  idea but what in the world is a selling point what is the actual purpose of this [TS]

  and yet we just got hung up on it and thought it would be the selling point [TS]

  and it certainly was the initial marketing marketing was all about this [TS]

  3d effect [TS]

  and then in reality it turned out exactly what the naysayers on the team [TS]

  at thought which is nobody sees the point of it yeah that's that's no [TS]

  differentiation is not just having a unique feature it's actually making a [TS]

  difference in customers lives in the way that another product cannot write it [TS]

  actually isn't didn't make it a better device and that's the whole problem and [TS]

  yet it also made it something that was expensive cuz it was a high-end phone [TS]

  was a premium fun you know there and I this is the part where I disagree with [TS]

  cars announces the reporting is interesting that there was that there [TS]

  were people within the team who said all along I don't see the point of this [TS]

  that's it's you know it's pure gimmickry and no utility and they were right in [TS]

  the end without it the fire from was left with nothing compelling because the [TS]

  other stuff that has none of it was best of breed doesn't have the best apps [TS]

  doesn't have the best ecosystem [TS]

  you know there is nothing else about the device that was that was worth hang your [TS]

  hat on the only thing they had to hang their hat on was the 3d effect in the 3d [TS]

  effect was pointless but business was all caught up in it for you saw that in [TS]

  the keynote to like the keynote was so long and it was so self-absorbed icy [TS]

  roads at the time like I thought I found the key not very distressing not just [TS]

  just because it was it was it wreaked of hubris and and basically this this [TS]

  article said yeah that's basically exactly yeah and so there I agree spot [TS]

  on where i disagree and the articles several times touches on it and I think [TS]

  you can kind of see cargoes along with his sources saying it too so it's not [TS]

  just cars the writer projecting him but it's the idea that the whole idea of a [TS]

  high-end phone from Amazon is contrary to the Brandon doomed from the start [TS]

  that this idea that they can make a phone to compete with Apple is a [TS]

  terrible idea because Apple competes on branding and design and Amazon is just [TS]

  low and prices and so of Amazon wanted it or phone it should have been some [TS]

  piece of junk that was super cheap and I disagree with that i disagree entirely [TS]

  because I mean what was the one quote there there is a branding issues you [TS]

  know is the quote from one of the sources that he had i really disagree [TS]

  with that and I just to me it's a it's to me it's a fundamental [TS]

  misunderstanding about branding and marketing about to me bernie marketing [TS]

  always come from [TS]

  eventually from the actual quality of the products or services wherever it is [TS]

  themselves and so short it is a little bit outside of Amazon's expected brand [TS]

  to ship a high-end you know phone they compete with the iPhone quality and [TS]

  maybe some people would have gotten it right away but the problem isn't that it [TS]

  that the fire phone was outside Amazon's braniff problem is the fire phone was a [TS]

  crappy phone and so therefore it's not it's the product it all comes from the [TS]

  private product was piece of crap that no one wanted to buy it was poorly [TS]

  reviewed if it actually had been a really good phone if it had been [TS]

  something that was compelling it may not have been a smash hit right away but at [TS]

  least would have fit with the brand they were trying to do and then they could [TS]

  generate for two or three years and eventually it might catch on but it all [TS]

  comes from the product itself had to be a good thing not I i i think i think [TS]

  thats right and the other thing too is if you step back and look at the [TS]

  e-commerce market Amazon is a high-end brand hinder a high-end brand because [TS]

  their number one proposition is selection and convenience [TS]

  yes they push price but you see a brand like jet dot com is like the former [TS]

  deborah's dot com CEOs like watching a new things like a Costco model basically [TS]

  where you pay a membership fee and then they they will give you that their [TS]

  margin effectively end all these rules is convoluted it takes longer to get [TS]

  your stuff in there is all weird ways to get discount he's a debit card is [TS]

  cheaper it's a pain in the ass in it sounds awful to me like I would not want [TS]

  to use it [TS]

  but I'm the sort of person that is willing to pay for convenience for a [TS]

  guaranteed delivery for going to one place and you when I want to I don't [TS]

  want to price compare I don't want to like jump through hoops to lower price [TS]

  but there are people who do and and I don't think Amazon ultimately when push [TS]

  comes to solve I I think they will prove out to be more of a high-end after [TS]

  another another ensuring you can receptors is wish wishes bill mobile app [TS]

  for you you can basically buy stuff from China and it's really cheap and it's a [TS]

  nice it's crap in his own as it takes like two weeks to arrive in that it [TS]

  doesn't arrive but it's super cheap and it's like interesting stuff and it's [TS]

  exploding and it's a very different proposition than Amazon and I think [TS]

  you'll look back at the e-commerce industry as a whole it out and actually [TS]

  is gonna be I was primarily in rich countries and its use I think primarily [TS]

  by relatively rich people and so not only are you write that the phone is [TS]

  crap now is the biggest problem and if they made a good phone it would accrue [TS]

  to their brand but actually think the the characterization of the brand was [TS]

  wrong as well yeah I kind of do I kind of agree with that too you know and I [TS]

  think it specially when you're getting into a new initiative you've kind of got [TS]

  a blank slate in terms of establishing the brand right I mean like thing about [TS]

  the Kindle which you said was you know I hit right from the start work again as I [TS]

  wasn't known for making their own products at all period that never done [TS]

  it before they do is the first gadget they made and you know they define the [TS]

  brand by the fact that it was a product that made people who were voracious [TS]

  readers very happy right it's the Kindle is at least as an e-reader is I think [TS]

  very well perceived brandon is you know sits atop the e-reader market I mean I [TS]

  have all sorts of little niggling complaints complaints about the design [TS]

  of the devices God Almighty I love I would love to see Apple Amazon poach [TS]

  some Apple engineers and let them have that the Kindle [TS]

  hardware for a year or two but overall it's you know I admit them all my [TS]

  complaints are more or less niggling and that the basic gist of this magic box [TS]

  that you can just reading reading reading read forever and when you get to [TS]

  the end of the book your fifteen seconds away from another book on it it all just [TS]

  worked in the brand for the Kindle Amazon's brainless before the brand for [TS]

  Kindle is defined by the experience of using it can you know and that's why [TS]

  it's a good brand and if the phone had actually been compelling in some kind of [TS]

  profound way then the fire phone would have had a good brand and again it might [TS]

  take years for it to really catch on traction is weird you know is a weird [TS]

  thing but I really don't think that you know that the brand is defined by the [TS]

  products it's not the other way around [TS]

  is the thing is like the the the era of differentiating on the OS layer is over [TS]

  its iOS and Android like thats and and the thing is like Amazon has lots of [TS]

  pieces to do interesting to do interesting stuff you know I like the [TS]

  fire like the most compelling thing in a presentation was like the Firefly [TS]

  application where identify staff and you could put your card you could buy [TS]

  whatever like in in that that that fit Amazon I think I was on you know I think [TS]

  the whole endeavor was was a bit misguided they would have been better [TS]

  off there would be better off focusing on the absent Alpine hours and ended but [TS]

  if they if if they felt there was a way to go like that should have been the [TS]

  central point in regions of his appointees because that's where Amazon [TS]

  can actually bring what they have to bear to create something truly unique [TS]

  that's that's really compelling [TS]

  so what do you think that you gonna do that's when they get out of the car [TS]

  articles what are they gonna do going forward and it's just such a disaster [TS]

  that there did done making phone or they gonna stick with it into a fire from 2 [TS]

  I'm honest I I thought that was the most surprising thing that he is so well [TS]

  sourced to get the story they got but it doesn't have anything about what their [TS]

  future plans I don't know it's a really interesting question I mean I mean it [TS]

  was a huge flop I mean it was what was the I think of it they only sold like [TS]

  10,000 phones or something like that at least until they drastically cut the [TS]

  prices were selling [TS]

  yeah I mean a huge right off at 800 300 million euros confusing with the surface [TS]

  yeah something even so that's an awful at an awful lot I mean it was clearly [TS]

  internally they had projections they were a liar [TS]

  oh yeah for sure I mean yeah it wasn't a mild disappointment it was a profound as [TS]

  rain so I don't know what do you think they're gonna do I honestly can't guess [TS]

  because it's their their two nations company and bassist strikes me as [TS]

  somewhat stubborn but on the other hand man it was such a turn of a of a you [TS]

  know market failure I i think that they III said I think that trying to really [TS]

  build out a a third platform is is a bad idea and it's really a second half [TS]

  platform right I don't know doesn't make it any easier right it's like there's [TS]

  Windows Phone which is trying to be at their platform and its all new UI all [TS]

  new API's even in programming language [TS]

  and Amazon found is certainly you know mostly Android right into the same [TS]

  language of these games and stuff like that I think you can pretty much just [TS]

  submit to their store and they just run but still it's a location API call or [TS]

  anything involving sari belies anything like that uses Google services you have [TS]

  to go in and change and it's it's in the grand scheme of things are simple change [TS]

  but it gets back to life the convenience factor right you're like one developer [TS]

  has to actually do it and which they have other stuff to do and to have to [TS]

  supported and break that barrier in I got i've i've done developer working [TS]

  with those of those little barriers that seemed especially disorder and create [TS]

  new platform it's not that big a deal you only have to do acts it is a big [TS]

  deal and it's a lot bigger deal than you appreciate is a bigger deal not just for [TS]

  the big guys that you talked to before the long tail of developers that you [TS]

  know that are out there you know if one other thing the other thing too is it [TS]

  strategically that's exactly where Google has sort of shored up and [TS]

  protected and you know not to get political but closed Android is by [TS]

  putting more and more stuff in the Google service absolutely in lesson you [TS]

  know an Ashley taking stuff out of the Android you know and departed called [TS]

  Android is open in the part that's cool services is completely closed and you [TS]

  know even just little things like the way that they've stopped development of [TS]

  the web browser on Android side and they've only officially now develop [TS]

  crown but that part of Google services in israeli so because that that is the [TS]

  bulwark like it is the App Store that prevents like they're being viable [TS]

  alternatives you know with the exception of China which has the most web stores [TS]

  but thats that like that's that's now the expectation for customers in China [TS]

  like you just go get different app stores and offices in the phone that's [TS]

  not the excitation anywhere else in the world and it's an expectation that is so [TS]

  cemented that I i generally believed [TS]

  in alternative isn't it isn't isn't a viable isn't a viable think that's why [TS]

  what's more compelling and interesting to me is is what's gonna be built on top [TS]

  of iOS or Android in and that's where I think Amazon should Amazon should be [TS]

  that's where their efforts should be focused on again this is balanced with [TS]

  this is such a problem companies is is armed companies get so wrapped up in [TS]

  what way you can make a good argument strategically important 4 a.m. sunday on [TS]

  their phone and it's really easy to just kind of ignore the part of like it [TS]

  actually happening it's like the question mark west-northwest profit that [TS]

  we have a platform like but but but with like windows or the Amazon deals winners [TS]

  for particular white people I called my crutches needs to get developers [TS]

  the problem is Microsoft's not the one making the decision to developers are [TS]

  Microsoft 0 control over what they do or don't do and and that's and if you're if [TS]

  if a key to your plan depends on independent third-party actors who are [TS]

  like wildly disparate and like you get touched all of them making a decision [TS]

  that's not a very good strategic plan even if from a big picture it seems [TS]

  obvious ways to do that and you see this company's tripping up on this again and [TS]

  again just just like skipping over that one detail that actually will sink the [TS]

  whole thing totally agree to take one last break here and thank our third and [TS]

  final sponsor the show and it is are very good friends at igloo igloo is the [TS]

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  all scales perfectly for the new iPhone + iPhone sex right from the start you [TS]

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  exactly the same as you do from the desktop anything you can do an igloo you [TS]

  can do from mobile really really they take it super seriously and it really [TS]

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  can look at in the regular version of Hindu will render perfectly on your [TS]

  device this past June last summer [TS]

  gardener released their fame Magic Quadrant for social software in the [TS]

  workplace [TS]

  paper this is a gardener in your eyes start rolling over and whatever well in [TS]

  the enterprise market enterprise I see I'm so far out of it with any enterprise [TS]

  market gardeners a big deal this is a thing that garner put out for the [TS]

  enterprise where they just rate all the different types of Internet that are out [TS]

  there and for the sixth consecutive your igloo tiny little igloo the upstart is [TS]

  listed right there along giants like Microsoft IBM Google VMware Salesforce [TS]

  ASAP right up with those guys and then reported values the size of the vendor [TS]

  and gardeners terms it's called viability is praised for their [TS]

  responsiveness to customer support you call it when you need help guess what [TS]

  you get a clue and you get help [TS]

  here's his right from the Gartner report feedback from includes reference [TS]

  customers was consistently positive they praised the products quick deployment [TS]

  configuration and customisation flexibility with the self-service [TS]

  options for non-technical users control over branding and information [TS]

  organization in the ease of use they also praised the responsiveness of a [TS]

  glove as an organization in other words translated to plain English would garner [TS]

  saying is what I've been saying on these sponsorships for awhile is all true it's [TS]

  easy to use [TS]

  have to be a technical expert you can control yourself and set it up just the [TS]

  way you need it for your team to use and same as always the most amazing part but [TS]

  here's the thing you sounds good you gonna do easy just go there [TS]

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  using it [TS]

  see for yourself so here's the special URLs got a code so they'll know you came [TS]

  from the show it Ingram software dot com slash the talk show it was software dot [TS]

  com slash the talk show you've got a team [TS]

  and you have collaborate you you're not happy with the way you guys are [TS]

  collaborating check out it is really really good stuff but thanks to the last [TS]

  but not least big week for Microsoft the Afghan finally so they had a big event [TS]

  in been read and i guess its density just for Windows tender when does tennis [TS]

  really just part of it i think thats that mean that's that it's a shame I [TS]

  think because everyone is talking about this project lowlands and no one is [TS]

  talking about what the event was to be about which is one problematic into its [TS]

  particular problematic because I thought that the the part that the event was [TS]

  actually but was actually pretty compelling yeah I thought so too I [TS]

  watched live and catch the whole thing but I watched most of it I watched close [TS]

  to two hours of it after gonna miss a little bit at the beginning of the [TS]

  windows 10 but I had the exact same thought I was like watching the windows [TS]

  10 stuff I was like I'm pretty impressed this is pretty intriguing I like where [TS]

  they're going with this one operating system [TS]

  think and you know the demos were good and evil is funny because Microsoft i [TS]

  think is notorious for having demos fail during the awards and and they promised [TS]

  look this stuff is all early there's gonna be a lot of bugs in these demos [TS]

  and I thought every time I was seamless which is trying to because they warned [TS]

  that there are going to be buggin and and and I thought it was wrapped up as I [TS]

  got was a hell of an event [TS]

  and then it just kept going and I was like wow I can't believe they're mixing [TS]

  these things together and on the other hand I could see how someone else would [TS]

  say well done Abba do the same thing with announces two pounds and their big [TS]

  deal and you know flagship products of the company and then at the same event [TS]

  they did I will pay an apple watch you know and released the preview of this [TS]

  device which isn't coming out yet which is exactly you know the holliman's isn't [TS]

  coming out but there's something about it did to me was was less cool well [TS]

  proportioned in Microsoft event where Howland's distracted heavily from [TS]

  Hollywood West Amazon we we talked about the fact that the iPhone every kind of [TS]

  got its day in the Sun yeah well I think I think well in broad terms I think one [TS]

  factor that is that the iPhone 6 and iPhone 6 plus I think by all accounts [TS]

  and its next week we're gonna get Apple's quarterly finances in [TS]

  everybody's expecting to be gangbusters and I think they're going to exceed [TS]

  expectations I think so to all the evidence we can see in the dick use we [TS]

  can get you know is that you know everything everybody thought is true [TS]

  that they were selling well and you ask their selling particularly well in Asian [TS]

  markets where larger sits and waits for for the fourth when a large one in a few [TS]

  is you're seeing especially in Asian markets [TS]

  regret about portable talking about the proportion of the 66 + that proportion [TS]

  is changing as the six plus get supply so i i think which means that the the [TS]

  Eris I'm presently higher like it's it's a lot higher because it's $100 higher at [TS]

  each pricing tier and its $100 higher at the starting price so anything about [TS]

  demand anything that shows positive demand for the six plus in particular is [TS]

  huge for Apple in terms of average selling price I I honestly wouldn't be [TS]

  surprised if average selling price year-over-year is significantly higher [TS]

  which I don't think it's ever happened before I think it's always going down it [TS]

  always be on the watch quarter because because well I am saying you're exactly [TS]

  agree I agree right it's you know an Apple has held average selling prices [TS]

  high compared to the rest of the smartphone industry you know obviously [TS]

  you know that extraordinary their exception in that regard but it still [TS]

  has slowly trickled down since the original iPhone you know in a way that's [TS]

  not worrisome for the company it's probably actually been a positive sign [TS]

  that they've kept them as high as they have had kept the trickle low but I [TS]

  think there's a serious chance to the existence of the six plus will actually [TS]

  raise the average selling price year-over-year only the lunch I fully [TS]

  expected to be the case I agree and like you said I do think I think they're [TS]

  still supply constraint on my think that they're selling them they're there they [TS]

  would they you know they can't make them fast enough to meet demand by this story [TS]

  of the two phones again they're super important I think they're super [TS]

  successful like profoundly successful maybe that may be the most successful [TS]

  launch year of iPhone to date not just in fact of record-breaking numbers but [TS]

  just exceeding expectations but there weren't they weren't hard to explain [TS]

  they were like the iPhone but it's bigger yeah you know and what was his [TS]

  shoulder demonstrate while he talked about you know a lot of the photography [TS]

  stuff that they've done it better camera that was not really that hard to explain [TS]

  it a better camera than ever and they're bigger and they're amazing battery life [TS]

  and that's it i mean it was not a hard thing to explain because it's truly just [TS]

  an iteration over what they've done before and they made a bigger whereas [TS]

  Windows 10 compared to everything else is it demanded a story it's a new thing [TS]

  this this whole strategy of 10 s that runs on everything from loans to small [TS]

  tablets to pick tablets to hybrids to desktops is all new and the way that [TS]

  they're sort of [TS]

  have this one OS but different interfaces that are suited to the [TS]

  different size devices demanded demos inattention and is it tour it's the [TS]

  whole story Microsoft for the rest of the year and it's a lot I think brushed [TS]

  that aside with the prototype by this guy thing no matter how quickly it's not [TS]

  even more profound than that like Microsoft like this they can't take for [TS]

  granted [TS]

  windows on the PC it is under real threat I believe not just from the Mac [TS]

  which is growing remarkably but also from Chromebooks like the fact of the [TS]

  matter is like I i I'm on record as saying and and may not have learned on [TS]

  an Apple podcast but you're not at all things excellent podcast but like yeah [TS]

  that's why crumble doesn't mix with us but most people would be exceptionally [TS]

  well served by having an iPhone and a Chromebook and and a lot of windows [TS]

  especially consumer market is arguably due to inertia but when it comes to the [TS]

  enterprise space like the enterprise in businesses that the core Microsoft mean [TS]

  you think that consumers hated Windows 8 reviewers here within 10 G sigler his [TS]

  windows 8 like the enterprise hated it was eight times 100 because I mean there [TS]

  was X under the surface there's a lot of good stuff on a date for foreign [TS]

  ministry in security and all that sort of stuff but the last thing any sort of [TS]

  in mister wants to deal with his having to teach people how to use their [TS]

  computer right like that that's that's awful and that's what we know as a kind [TS]

  of brought them in so Microsoft like there is nothing more important to [TS]

  Windows I don't think windows should be more support me that later but there's [TS]

  nothing more important to Windows then like laying out like [TS]

  we've come to our senses like this is you can depend on us were awake sorry [TS]

  about that this is something you can see and believe in and that message needs to [TS]

  get our in needs to be pushed out you think it's you think it's fair is fair [TS]

  to describe it is stop the bleeding [TS]

  absolutely i me away with one was stopped the bleeding arguably but that [TS]

  was more of a like a battlefield like like what's on your arm and liked it it [TS]

  it stands as the like the blood flow Yeah Yeah Yeahs and turquoise [TS]

  attorney for demonstrating are bad for ya tourniquet yeah I agree and this is [TS]

  their way of saying look here's something that's new that we've been [TS]

  working on and it's different and that we're proud to say we think you're gonna [TS]

  like you know here's a saying here's our vision for the future and we think it [TS]

  goes along with what you want to hear from us [TS]

  night only group that I am even at the Chromebook printed my chromebox is [TS]

  through my son and they have a lot of them as most of the computing devices to [TS]

  school he gets user Chromebooks I mean there is a mixer some MacBooks there too [TS]

  but they don't get the touch imagine there's some iPads but it mostly when [TS]

  the kids do some computer it's on crime books and it's interesting to me because [TS]

  he complains about him and his not again I've said this before many times it's if [TS]

  anything he'd like to tweak me not pleased me so he's not like Pro Apple [TS]

  because his dad writes about a boy if anything he would love to complain about [TS]

  to get under my skin he complained about the Chromebooks cuz he deserves their [TS]

  pieces of junk thursday or Samsung's you know just flimsy did he complained about [TS]

  the keys he says all his friends 22 they are complaining all want them [TS]

  place with MacBooks and iPhones interesting than a couple weeks ago he [TS]

  said they had a big thing where they all got called together in like the lower [TS]

  school or middle school middle school now the middle school principal column [TS]

  together in one of the other fifth-grade classes trashed a bunch of the [TS]

  Chromebooks you know just the way that fifth-grade boys probably the boy's face [TS]

  it [TS]

  and I was and I said no I said you know what that's why they make you guys [TS]

  should be scrapped Chromebooks and cinematic works because you guys are up [TS]

  for them you know you don't treat them like you would your own you treat them [TS]

  like you know your property but it made me think just enlarge some its there's a [TS]

  market for computers that an institution chooses for you for other reasons and [TS]

  that may not be what you would want to use yourself and that microsoft owns [TS]

  them owned hundred-percent they like a hundred percent of that market of stuff [TS]

  that institution of any kind whether it's a business corporation like a [TS]

  fortune 500 or a middle school or something like that and Chromebooks are [TS]

  absolutely and it informs everything else because you know what do they do on [TS]

  a Chromebook when they certainly don't use Microsoft Word right i mean that's [TS]

  when they're typing stuff it's in Google Docs you know and so everything that [TS]

  falls out of that of them not buying if they're going to buy kids a bunch of [TS]

  piece of crap no books that can be used as beaters then being Chromebooks [TS]

  instead of being Windows machines has all sorts of repercussions other than [TS]

  just the licensing fee for Windows that they're not getting their sales don't [TS]

  get used to office i mean the reality is most people don't need office but we're [TS]

  used to it you're used to it and that's super powerful and take it for granted [TS]

  it's just one you know schools just went on but I know you know there's no doubt [TS]

  miners to Chromebooks are huge thing in education [TS]

  no no no evidence numbers reflect that [TS]

  the other thing is frustrating because like I actually genuinely like using it [TS]

  like if your stuff is a is actually all in the cloud [TS]

  it's it's it's a delight to use in the way like an iPad as level use in that [TS]

  lake there's no there's no crushed right there's no dealing with updates or like [TS]

  stuff popping up like you like when you deal with always stand or windows or [TS]

  anything there's just so much stuff that came before that still hanging around [TS]

  for various reasons [TS]

  whereas with a Chromebook it's it's just so it's it's an appliance its you turn [TS]

  it on and you type stuff in it and he put away and I that's why i like it [TS]

  because it's so simple and that's why won't the pixel because the pixel like [TS]

  I'm paying for a nominal hardware like the pixel is I can't I can't speak on [TS]

  the keyboard trackpad screen all Apple quality if I put the keyboard above [TS]

  Apple actually and by the problem is most of their cheap market which is [TS]

  which makes me very sad day when how many pixels file free money but that's [TS]

  another one that's all I have to pull you in the Apple keyboard like a lot [TS]

  about the couple I write like my daily updates will you know which are more [TS]

  preferential to current events and I am working a lot I'll do those most read [TS]

  those IMAX screens up like that but like my big articles where they're more like [TS]

  for lack of better words like the pieces are alike like where I'm trying to [TS]

  articulate an argument I was always right there on the pixel in just because [TS]

  I love the environment right now there's nothing else going on and it's a great [TS]

  taping of army the screen gorgeous screen and like you just like it lost in [TS]

  the document and there's I still I still use it like at least weekly if not more [TS]

  yeah well I don't think it's any coincidence that I mean there's the [TS]

  whole rise of you know like single window window user mode and and text [TS]

  editors that are you know like [TS]

  by word and other ones that are meant to be a distraction free and run you know [TS]

  as a single window but I think in general and a web app you use even if [TS]

  you don't use it [TS]

  single window user mode or any kind of thing that's designed to be [TS]

  distraction-free writing on laptop is just inherently more distraction free [TS]

  then writing at a desk top with a big window you know we totally it feels more [TS]

  focus is no tenders no question he did hear from people who write anything you [TS]

  know from novelists to journalists you know the the biggest forum to the [TS]

  quickest and shortest form you know they just live and die by their totally [TS]

  totally [TS]

  with Windows though is what I was most impressed by was actually the very very [TS]

  beginning the part that you missed where they basically articulated the idea that [TS]

  Windows needed to be or you need to be personal and it wasn't about the device [TS]

  it was about a person a person should be able to go from device to device like [TS]

  they're booked into where where there's more devices than people in in the [TS]

  Microsoft has always been about the PC and that that that's how their business [TS]

  models are based on that other product development based on everything based on [TS]

  the device and but the world today is you have to focus on the person and so [TS]

  you have to have that in the apples doing two of continuity as our staff is [TS]

  you need to have the seamless experience it's no longer enough to think about [TS]

  just OS 10 like I love john served uses conclusion the assembly he really taking [TS]

  this well like it's not that Apple is now developing disparate operating [TS]

  systems are developing one system with various manifestations that need to work [TS]

  together and and gold cross from wrist to two laptop to desktop to phone or [TS]

  tablet [TS]

  and microsoftr to clear this is well into a bigger deal for Microsoft because [TS]

  Apple's cells cells the actual hardware so if this new world fits their business [TS]

  models actually even better for Apple to the consultant that many more devices [TS]

  for Microsoft is a big shift because it tells a change in everything that they [TS]

  do in the weather companies put together in a way to make money and to hear them [TS]

  articulated so clearly and succinctly was really encouraging and I guess my [TS]

  only complaint with the first part of the part of the presentation the part [TS]

  that we both liked was the only problem with it was that all the Devils were [TS]

  were a PC and Windows Phone or or Windows tablet and that's just not the [TS]

  reality the reality is people with a dilemma I think a Windows PC with an [TS]

  iPhone with an Android phone because that's that's their customer and I i [TS]

  just think we need to double down on the PC and instead they can't distracted [TS]

  with this thing and then you had the delegating up and talk about we love [TS]

  windows or what people of Windows it's just kind of went off the rails at odds [TS]

  LOD haven't Emma with iPhone and I know that you know part of it part of [TS]

  Microsoft is more open to that I mean you know to go back to last year and the [TS]

  bill conference where they had you know me and Brent Simmons and Dave whiskers [TS]

  come out and featured product video for them because Vesper uses the Windows [TS]

  Live observers as and and that's all very true but it would be hard sell in a [TS]

  Windows 10 focused event but it is interesting and I do think that in [TS]

  general sense that they you know it's just you know in a polite way that they [TS]

  can only do so much year over year but that they're iterating [TS]

  and I feel like they're going in a very similar way we're like you said with [TS]

  Syracuse's conclusion of the assembly review that it's sort of one system with [TS]

  different interfaces for the different devices and I kind of feel like they [TS]

  miss that with Windows 8 where they kind of shipped everything with this total [TS]

  whether it was a touch device or not and it was really mostly you know I don't [TS]

  know they just the overall tiled interface just really did not work well [TS]

  I think on laptops and certainly not on desktops and it was really just sort of [TS]

  a tablet / phone interface but now they've got you know it's it's more it's [TS]

  really you know really is the same windows 10 like that the whole thing [TS]

  with the apps I think it's fascinating and it shows how they're doing it like a [TS]

  higher level than Apple where there's not a desktop Windows app store or not [TS]

  going to be for Windows 10 in a phone 1 like if you get a Twitter app it could [TS]

  be the same app and it runs on your phone or tablet runs on your PC but has [TS]

  very different interfaces like when you're using on your PC [TS]

  it won't be like you're running an iPhone app exactly i mean i think i mean [TS]

  market had a had a kind of a discourse on ATP a few weeks ago about why we [TS]

  gonna build overcast for the Mac and in the Microsoft vision that would really [TS]

  be decision he would already have it easy after designed to interface but [TS]

  like right now it's a big step for him to write a Mac out be there won't be the [TS]

  case there would be the case for Windows yeah it's like I said earlier with [TS]

  Instagram where at in today's iOS world if you do the stuff that's necessary to [TS]

  support the original iPhone 5s sized iPhone 676 plus-size going to the iPad [TS]

  is just a fourth size and you know that's sort of what they're doing with [TS]

  the stuff and this is a brand new I mean it was a big part of the message should [TS]

  build last may was the way that you can build these universal app said Brian [TS]

  cross [TS]

  incredible you know from TVs to found with interfaces specific to those [TS]

  devices you know that you could have the same app you can get it from the App [TS]

  Store and on the phone [TS]

  clearly it touched base device where it's all based on touching the glass and [TS]

  on your TV it's all based on using a remote-controlled down the great thing [TS]

  is though is the thing for for for Microsoft is both like the the the [TS]

  problem and the opportunity is the this idea of moving from device to device [TS]

  it's actually not it's not that much about the operating system is it because [TS]

  although if you think about it [TS]

  wake it's all it's all about the cloud is in its net is national the cloud it's [TS]

  about a whole bunch of clouds so my facebook is is the same everywhere [TS]

  because it's on Facebook scarred by Twitter's the same everywhere my emails [TS]

  the same like a lot of the services already have are already in sync across [TS]

  devices because they're inherently kind of cloud-based and and that's i mean [TS]

  that that's so till almost like to use the word to over index on on the [TS]

  operating system being consistent is if you think about it less important than [TS]

  having that kind of service where that that's the part that is actually [TS]

  consistent the cloud is consistent across all your devices and oh by the [TS]

  way that Microsoft is doing really great stuff in the cloud and I do think that [TS]

  the delegates this there's a clear part of Microsoft think it's this and i think [TS]

  is still an opportunity to the group can still be better even on iowa's on [TS]

  Android and I think Microsoft is making strong moves in that area yes it would [TS]

  have been a radical move would have loved to help powerful have been to have [TS]

  Microsoft just fully embraced the new we are the best PC operating system [TS]

  screw the max with a Chromebook I mean I was we can disagree or you can disagree [TS]

  but I that's a fair position for them to take arms and we with are required [TS]

  we work well with whatever device you bring along with [TS]

  it especially with Windows Phone but whatever you know whatever you're using [TS]

  metal work great with yeah that's why I get Microsoft thing like we were like if [TS]

  you use a Windows it'll be the basket is true only if you if you get everything [TS]

  from one company to get a better experience but the promises just that [TS]

  it's not reality and I just over I'm a big fan of there we go back to the [TS]

  Amazon thing like you can win you want to go with what's best for you or what [TS]

  is like the way that customers actually their lives [TS]

  know so I feel like the event should have I i feel like the surface hub which [TS]

  is their big 84 inch for KTV touchscreen white board meeting [TS]

  fingers I feel like that that would have been a good way to write that fits that [TS]

  it wasn't distracting from the earlier message to me it emphasized the error [TS]

  message which is that Windows 10 runs on everything from this hold up a phone [TS]

  right and even a big Lumia phone even a big five and a half inch phone is tiny [TS]

  compared to it Chinese Foreign Stevie and it was a cool surprise because the [TS]

  TV had been right there showing slides the whole presentation you know that [TS]

  this thing that they were announcing which was a surprise was right there in [TS]

  front of everybody and it's time to the enterprise in like which is the part the [TS]

  market they really needed to a show right and it's you know here's here's [TS]

  here's one thing where if Microsoft can get out in front and you know Apple [TS]

  didn't say anything like this Google doesn't have anything like this nobody [TS]

  has anything like this right this is a product that's not really like anything [TS]

  else and like you said there's a clear you can easily see how there's a lot of [TS]

  people that this week her saying hey we could use that right we we could use [TS]

  that that would be good for us whether it's the whiteboard part or the meeting [TS]

  part or both [TS]

  you know it's it's it's not like you have to jump through hoops to find a [TS]

  reason to do it you might want to buy it [TS]

  and then end it right there because I think that the whole and stuff [TS]

  not that they should have done it I just save it for build right why not do that [TS]

  it build and have cool fun thing you know maybe they've got something else [TS]

  for build too but I know save that for build and let the windows 10 event [TS]

  breathe for itself I can I think it's a tricky tricky comp it's a tricky thing [TS]

  being one of those big companies we've got a lot of stuff coming out throughout [TS]

  the year how many events do you break them into you know how much do [TS]

  shoehorned into one keynote [TS]

  but I think they made a mistake by doing Allahabad I cannot see how and when it's [TS]

  ellen's gonna ship in a month or two months [TS]

  yeah I don't have it also makes me a little skeptical and and the people who [TS]

  got to play with it all raved about the experience and so it doesn't seem like [TS]

  there's any kind of its a real thing yeah yeah it's it's you know it's real [TS]

  technology in every I didn't see a single person who tried it who didn't [TS]

  give it a very positive response but it's clearly prototype hardware you know [TS]

  that the their promise shipping device is the thing with no cables just put a [TS]

  battery operated and you put it on your head and that's it [TS]

  whereas the thing that they let people try involved I can battery pack on your [TS]

  waist and a cable connecting the battery pack to the thing on your head [TS]

  and they had to take physical measurements of the distance between [TS]

  your pupils and then enter it by hand in the device whereas the you know the [TS]

  shipping product is supposed to be you know like if you've got one and I try it [TS]

  on its gonna the device itself will measure the pupil distance to calibrate [TS]

  itself it's all very that raises all sorts of reds are sorry I read the [TS]

  Harvard and it's sort of you know of course I'm gonna bring it back to Apple [TS]

  but it's an interesting contrast with the watch where when they showed us the [TS]

  watch back in October or September right September was launched it was i mean i [TS]

  didnt say its final hardware but it was as close to final you know I'm sure [TS]

  there might be some tweaks or something like that but it was you know they were [TS]

  real things they let us analyze try my wrists and you know it's the same [TS]

  materials that were stainless they they were told they were aluminum all the [TS]

  bands were there we got to play with the bands and they just didn't let us see [TS]

  the software you know they just had the demo but the software but the actual [TS]

  hardware was there I mean it's there's no trickery about it that's interesting [TS]

  and worry about result that Microsoft had the software pretty nail down but [TS]

  not the hardware well now but they didn't really it wasn't it was the [TS]

  software was also a Kindle software they took people through I'll count you know [TS]

  everybody gotta say well I'm in in Canada Norway where it wasn't just [TS]

  playing with the watch it really just playing a lute and there was no [TS]

  interactivity at all whereas clearly this thing was actually I guess you move [TS]

  your head was adjusting what you saw you know it was all but you know the things [TS]

  that you did work very very limited it was the everybody got the same minecraft [TS]

  game everybody got the same [TS]

  you know a Skype call to how to hook up which I was the most compelling yeah [TS]

  that's really cool out there did the democratic you know in a product video [TS]

  they showed somebody getting help doing some home plumbing repair in the thing [TS]

  that they gave to the journalists it was a little bit of like it was a hooking up [TS]

  a light switch little home electricity and the ideas they had an expert [TS]

  electrician on the other end using Skype on a tablet who can see what you see [TS]

  through your Holland and then he could annotated with his finger on the tablet [TS]

  by saying here take this cable here and then you know draw a line on it and look [TS]

  this thing up to there and do that you know which isn't very compelling is that [TS]

  is compelling from a user perspective is compiled from a product perspective is [TS]

  that they're not a platform where you could see there being all kinds of [TS]

  services being offered you know over this and it is the Apple like I think in [TS]

  the long run I'm more interested in augment really them in virtual reality I [TS]

  mean I could drift looks amazing but to me that's in the same vein as video [TS]

  games [TS]

  I mean I might mean to be dismissive cuz I realize video games are an enormous [TS]

  industry you know like boris did you just put posted a point that that the [TS]

  App Store is now paying developers more than the box office receipts of [TS]

  hollywood combined in NUS and some people I lick yes some people in town [TS]

  and I was like well it's not a huge is not like a magic number it doesn't mean [TS]

  anything in particular its just a just put it in context though you we've all [TS]

  grown up knowing Hollywood Hollywood it's a big deal you know the Apple App [TS]

  Store alone is now bigger than its destination it's a thing you go in do [TS]

  whereas like wood so comply with the smartphone is it's with you all the time [TS]

  in your actual real life and you can see why you like 10 years down the road [TS]

  where the what Microsoft is doing is actually like a normal pair of glasses [TS]

  glasses like the the the fundamental concept I don't think was flawed [TS]

  just everything about the products accused was was horribly fired right and [TS]

  and a lot of the country feedback i've gotten this week you know it's like wow [TS]

  can you how can you say that this looks cool and you're still no did nothing but [TS]

  should all over Google glass for two years and it's again it's like I never I [TS]

  and I don't think anybody ever said that augmented reality is a goofy idea that's [TS]

  never gonna take off it was glass in particular everything about glass that [TS]

  the actual nature of how it was presented in their their proposal how [TS]

  you do to rate was was wrong not the idea that augmented reality in general [TS]

  has been now you know I can see it as I can see where you know obtrusive [TS]

  headsets like what you know colin is going to be when it ships I mean you [TS]

  know you look like robert was ok I could see you know there's all sorts of things [TS]

  you do at home that you wouldn't do in public that you look weird like being [TS]

  sure you know hunting your shoulders over a little video game controller is [TS]

  not something you would do while you know you know out in public but you know [TS]

  why you're playing a game it's fine if you think about something like what's [TS]

  the previous the iPhone it's like it's like the iPod but from a a fundamental [TS]

  level they're very different products the iPod was dependent on a PC the [TS]

  center of your existence was the PC that Israel hub and the iPad which you carry [TS]

  music with you yet from me like a hardware perspective the iPod very much [TS]

  for the iPhone [TS]

  what Apple learn miniaturization battery technology all that sort of stuff went [TS]

  to the iPhone and I think it's a similar thing here right now he'll start out as [TS]

  being something you do at home you're not gonna wear this thing outside but [TS]

  Microsoft will develop the expertise in [TS]

  and like how to build this sort of stuff it'll get smaller and at some point they [TS]

  will be ready to make the shift your to being on the outside with Google jump [TS]

  straight to be outside when the technologies and even remotely close to [TS]

  being ready and and that's why it was a mess in LA and everything fell out of [TS]

  that everything fell out of that because then by trying to make it small enough [TS]

  that you'd even vaguely want to wear or be willing to wear in public it was so [TS]

  technically limited that it was there was never anything about it that was [TS]

  like oh wow holy crap whereas also you know that was more or less the [TS]

  responsibility hadn't got to try that on the whole ends at the Microsoft event [TS]

  was wow this is so frustrating rightly get the whole and it was genuinely [TS]

  compelling is compelling [TS]

  from me today perspective it's compelling from me like 10 years from [TS]

  now perspective end end it's just a shame that end so I guess they got the [TS]

  harlins benefit but I mean like why did it have to be at this event I that's [TS]

  exactly my point exactly I really couldn't agree more and I and as the [TS]

  week has gone on and I've seen what people have written about I my that was [TS]

  my initial reaction on day one and it's only been reaffirmed because almost [TS]

  everything i've seen written since it's been about Holland not about Windows [TS]

  yeah and in one day needed to make points about Windows 10 l like this is [TS]

  windows in chill out with you know we've become your senses and to like the visit [TS]

  was compelling but no one no one's being attached to it and it's a hard thing you [TS]

  know I know you're there I can see why they're excited about it I can see why [TS]

  they might have been excited to announce it but I think you gotta gotta hold that [TS]

  bullet for a little longer [TS]

  yeah and get it so that you don't have to wait until it's ready to ship you [TS]

  know next week but you know just a little closer and they have an event [TS]

  coming up their build coming up in just a few months and I you know I don't do [TS]

  anything that would happen in the next few months that would have made it less [TS]

  of the [TS]

  according to unveil their anything it'll be better diet I don't know what caused [TS]

  it would only be you know further along [TS]

  yeah I can't help but think that they really wasted an opportunity missed I'm [TS]

  distracted from what the cool things they did have to announce and you know [TS]

  unveiling israelis because it's almost like a lack of confidence right like [TS]

  they weren't they weren't covered in what they had to announce early third [TS]

  their status as a company I guess I could see where that comes from I guess [TS]

  but like they felt they needed to do sit up and they didn't need to write yeah [TS]

  yeah I kind of agree with that [TS]

  otherwise it was a pretty well run event that I do think that they're getting [TS]

  their act together and after yeah I mean like like this are didn't like it sounds [TS]

  stupid but they started on time the presentation retired the demolition fail [TS]

  like and that's that's that will that stuff matters and it wasn't the case [TS]

  even just a couple years yeah and it's you know I think that it's it's also a [TS]

  sign to me the whole event even with them in my mind in your mind the mistake [TS]

  of tossing holland's into as unnecessary icing on the cake for distracting icing [TS]

  on the cake [TS]

  even with it it still felt like overall like a new Microsoft which i think they [TS]

  they needed in B that Nutella needed you know to assert you know in a public way [TS]

  to make it feel like you know he has changed in the course of this ship yeah [TS]

  I love the frosting idea that there's that little was like this is really good [TS]

  frosting its rugged cake but these days should go together [TS]

  yeah you know and I i would say making windows 10 free i mean they're they're [TS]

  calling it free for a free upgrade for anybody running Windows seven or eight [TS]

  for the first year I don't know why they tacked on that first year why not just [TS]

  say it's a free update for Windows seven re I guess the idea I only thing I can [TS]

  think of is that they don't want people to wait they want people running Windows [TS]

  7 Anytime Upgrade [TS]

  within the first year but it just seems like a weird like asterisk to put on it [TS]

  but the whole idea of him being freed seems like post Ballmer Microsoft [TS]

  Windows it was free for the first three months if you have Windows seven I [TS]

  believe so they did do it before and the reality is Microsoft makes the vast [TS]

  majority of the revenue either from enterprise licensing or from new PC's [TS]

  sold with Windows Phone only like 10% of revenue is ever come from people [TS]

  actually paying for upgrades but that said it's still it still matters in his [TS]

  meeting for any other one year things such as that but also they basically [TS]

  said anyone who buys a Windows 10 PC will get upgrades for the like the wife [TS]

  of the the life of the expected life of the PC and it sounds like it's going to [TS]

  be more of it it really is more of a Apple sort of model late August 10 today [TS]

  where you get it you're going to get upgrades in your not gonna pay pay for [TS]

  the upgrades indeed that is a big deal to shift it it's a shift to this the [TS]

  person being the center of sort of sort of mindset that that that is a bigger [TS]

  shift from Microsoft than it is for Apple because it requires changing how [TS]

  they make money in the end I kinda put an X on this week but I I think you're [TS]

  right it is it is it is worth it is worth it [TS]

  technology I think it's also it's even more worth acknowledging in a way that [TS]

  like the bugs in software that we all been talking about this month or so [TS]

  like the bugs in software that we all been talking about this month or so [TS]

  it's easier to complain about then the things that they do that are just work [TS]

  that are kind of amazing that they just work and you know it's easy to take [TS]

  those things for granted I think Microsoft case praised for hey here's [TS]

  Windows 10 it's a free update for Windows seven and eight users is worth [TS]

  raising even more so because of how complicated Windows pricing has been in [TS]

  the past you know with the PRO Edition Pro Enterprise Edition and you know a [TS]

  different editions of the new version of Windows with you know it just boggles [TS]

  the mind and I feel like just saying just windows 10 get a free update for [TS]

  Windows seven days such a you know it's it's deserving of praise [TS]

  if it is deserving of praise as their old strategy was deserving mockery yeah [TS]

  it's always the Australian made a lot of money definitely did it and it was but [TS]

  it was a salesperson strategy you know and I feel like it wasn't good for them [TS]

  in the long run it definitely made money you know there's no bottom line [TS]

  any any discussion or complained about bombers leadership of Microsoft have to [TS]

  include the but money and ever-increasing amounts you know but it [TS]

  it having it making your product Lincoln unnecessarily confusing even if it's [TS]

  profitable you know in the short term I think it's detrimental to your branding [TS]

  in the long I would fascinate for me to watch Mexico in this is part of it is [TS]

  it's actually sounds with Adobe adobe has fundamentally shifted how they make [TS]

  money from selling packaged software to selling software as a service basically [TS]

  and Microsoft is kind of going through the same transition and it's and it's I [TS]

  said as an expert on this week liked the thing about Microsoft you have to [TS]

  culture everything in this is what you're witnessing of Microsoft in all [TS]

  the criticism against the company [TS]

  what they're going through is the price of being so absurdly successful yeah [TS]

  like every every smidgen that Microsoft was less successful the easier the task [TS]

  would be today [TS]

  and and sell its like it's a testament to how successful they were that they're [TS]

  having to go through such wrenching scenes is now and it's interesting to [TS]

  watch in like I was a little down Adele speech in type of windows and stuff I [TS]

  think now I think there may have been a political model to it but it's pretty [TS]

  remarkable deceive the shift in Microsoft in just the last year yeah [TS]

  that's you know they they needed to move fast they said they're gonna move fast [TS]

  but you know actions speak louder than words and I think their actions back it [TS]

  up so I think overall it was you know it was a very best event I think Microsoft [TS]

  and while even though I think so could have easily been the better just by [TS]

  holding all and yeah a little bit frustrating for them because like it is [TS]

  not like they it's not like it was bad just the wrong time wrong point last [TS]

  question when do you think Holland is gonna ship actually ship as I get [TS]

  consumer spending you can just go online and buy and how much you think it's [TS]

  going to cost I would guess late 2016 in limited supply it'll be hard to get an [TS]

  exotic with Windows 10th time frame and needs like it's like when Windows tens [TS]

  like the product on the market now Quinn with us 10 ships before a Windows 11 [TS]

  ships that's what I thought I interpreted right exactly exactly [TS]

  although I do I do wonder if there will ever be winners 11 like when final are [TS]

  borrowing from from Apple [TS]

  the the price that interesting [TS]

  $300 289 wow I was thinking [TS]

  I think 2016 I think if I wanted to actually have to be honest I have to say [TS]

  like you probably second after 2016 I was gonna say a thousand dollars yeah [TS]

  that's possible I have it was more a like are they going to actually try to [TS]

  make $1000 is it would probably the smart thing is I think it's important to [TS]

  nail it was more a way to get the ax I think I can cost I don't know that I [TS]

  could be I could see it being more a lot more I could see their goal being making [TS]

  him a lot more consumer friendly you know 3 $400 but I don't know and it's [TS]

  certainly to me and I know Apple only revealed the starting price of Apple [TS]

  watch but without releasing any suggestion of the price and i know i no [TS]

  part of it is that they don't know because it's so far off but it it opened [TS]

  themselves up to disappointment if you don't set any expectations at all it's [TS]

  very possible if it's above $500 that people are going to be outraged yeah [TS]

  that's true I would refund if Apple you know oneself watch is really expensive [TS]

  and if it is successful that will kind of a reset people's expectations there's [TS]

  a focus on being cheap Unitech press in particular and I think it's adding it's [TS]

  misplaced III I think that especially as you get more and more consumers that [TS]

  aren't they just want stuff to work like there's a lot of people that are willing [TS]

  to pay for for not having a hassle and the reality is I think a lot of those [TS]

  people who don't want to have a hassle have actually never really but [TS]

  acknowledged you price only viewed it as opposed to being a hassle [TS]

  but now you have his but now they are buying the right smart phones anyway at [TS]

  a minimum and I i think in this market of people who have money in Dr not [TS]

  technical Apple is particularly well-placed and it'll be interesting to [TS]

  see if if that ends up being is not just for Apple before other companies as well [TS]

  well you know i i just think it's telling that they gave away just the [TS]

  starting price you know and ok maybe I'm sure in fact I guarantee it I don't care [TS]

  whether you pay attention to you know like people like me and you who've tried [TS]

  to set the expectation that hey the gold one the addition is probably gonna be [TS]

  several thousand dollars at least even is gonna be so fun even if you've been [TS]

  paying attention there's a lot of people who I know who do not believe us and [TS]

  therefore if were correct [TS]

  are going to be disappointed if they were hoping to buy the gold one and [TS]

  without question there are millions of people who never heard of us and have [TS]

  never read any sort of informed commentary on Apple but who are aware of [TS]

  the Apple ID and who think while I like all of my old iPhone I get the gold [TS]

  watch and gonna be shocked the shit and they see the price by at the very least [TS]

  no matter how bad their actions on that there still is an apple watch it they [TS]

  can't afford because it's at 3:49 price that Apple it already mention the shower [TS]

  I remain very excited and intrigued by the watchin how it goes down in yeah [TS]

  well if I like we're losing you like what you like to use it like there's a [TS]

  new new categories are always if it's March if it is March that'll be the day [TS]

  will be right around six months and that would be the second one second major [TS]

  product apples unveiled with about six months of headway you know died from [TS]

  being first back in 2007 [TS]

  so if you're right if you when I read about our land being over a year away [TS]

  from coming to market it'll be interesting to see how that plays out [TS]

  you know how much how much do other similar products command the meantime [TS]

  the people lose interest to people get angry when christmas rolls around and [TS]

  they still can't buy one cuz everybody assumes cuz they announced it they're [TS]

  gonna be able to get one this year but I don't think anyone expects the share [TS]

  which is no I don't know about that I think I don't think anybody informed [TS]

  expects it I think that if you went out and polled thousand people who play xbox [TS]

  games you know do you think that when you think colin is coming out I'll bet [TS]

  you'll get a lot of people who said this year because while with announced I [TS]

  don't think people think it through I think casual people just think what they [TS]

  announced today must be coming out later this year maybe I although the extra 50 [TS]

  min project at all which I think was the Kinect I doubt that was demoed a long [TS]

  time before connecting oh yeah people have short memories huh that's true or [TS]

  not very forgiving and we can call the show is calling the show Ben Thompson we [TS]

  just got started three hours yeah my thanks to you I super appreciate your [TS]

  time anybody who wants to get more of your intake and go to strategic [TS]

  protect her research actually protect every dot com STR a TEC ATR 13 [TS]

  tourniquet dot com [TS]

  and anybody who enjoys hearing hearing the dulcet tones of your voice can also [TS]

  hear you on your regular podcast exponent exponent . FM with your co-host [TS]

  James Allworth could show very good show you miss the obvious joke though that my [TS]

  position so bad that I can't even decide the position where we always get it [TS]

  looks good especially when you see the tack in orange yeah I deserve it [TS]

  yeah we spent the whole show even talk about my switched off caps headlines on [TS]

  my times that's right [TS]

  vocal proponent of even know everybody I've ever heard of it because it's [TS]

  similar to my site like my main on main article wow sorry but I don't know why I [TS]

  i for me reading during fire by I think I am Not sure I'ma fan have to be [TS]

  totally honest I will see to give a year ago to give a couple weeks to see letter [TS]

  breathe right [TS]