The Talk Show

109: ‘How Many Keys?’, With Guest MG Siegler


  John MGC what're you doing good has been a long time I know months I feel like I [TS]

  strongly suspect but I would never be as industrious says to actually check but I [TS]

  about this is the longest stretch without being on the show I think so I [TS]

  think that's right but you know I live in London now so that's part of the [TS]

  reason so yeah that is what makes a little bit harder to communicate yeah [TS]

  it's funny cause it's going back to back its last episode was Ben Thompson whose [TS]

  in Taipei and in London so I feel like I've gone around the world [TS]

  international audience I don't know that it can I honestly think it maybe [TS]

  somebody in New Zealand or something could be further away but that's about [TS]

  as far away as as people can get all this is much better for your normally I [TS]

  have to talk to the west coast that's eight hours and so that keeps me up you [TS]

  know 11 a.m. 2 a.m. for those types of calls yeah I bet that that's actually [TS]

  pretty weird I do feel like being a lifelong East Coast aus person I feel [TS]

  like you know like Greenwich Mean Time isn't that far away but but for someone [TS]

  from the West Coast it it truly is it's it's an entire eight hours we'll see how [TS]

  how I'm going to watch the Super Bowl a think it starts that way [TS]

  1234 so maybe 11:30 p.m. and then it's gonna go obviously to like 2:30 a.m. [TS]

  obviously they have a lot of different bars and stuff set up over here to show [TS]

  it but it will be weird because it's in Arizona are it so it's either western [TS]

  mountain time but yeah arizona's definitely West Coast I'm definitely [TS]

  isn't Arizona one of the new mexico that's like one of the [TS]

  like a holdout on ya one of those does not do it and then Vegas does a weirdly [TS]

  like they sometimes are on one time zone sometimes I don't know or something like [TS]

  that yeah well they they legislated in Vegas that there's no clocks anywhere [TS]

  right like a lot of you have to like I do watch when you get to the airport [TS]

  there till confiscated and set so that the big news is we feel like we have to [TS]

  talk about it and can can't skip it is is the quarterly results from Apple yes [TS]

  I do you which mister and it's like i know im not a finance blogger I try not [TS]

  to over emphasize it but I feel like in this case it's so outlandish Lee [TS]

  exceptional that you can't help it [TS]

  talk about it and write about it make links to it and stuff like that [TS]

  yeah it's insane I remember I guess it was a couple years ago probably when I [TS]

  was obviously still with maybe a three years ago when I was still at TechCrunch [TS]

  and I was obviously doing a lot of the coverage of the Apple earnings and each [TS]

  subsequent subsequent year they go up and up and up and one of the years it [TS]

  was like insane it was made thirteen billion dollars in profit in the holiday [TS]

  quarter so is either two or three years ago and it seemed like a time like wow [TS]

  that I mean that's amazing it's sort of an eight-time win you know the margins [TS]

  were still very very high and then they were everyone was thinking that they [TS]

  were going to start coming down because of different products that were coming [TS]

  out in the future iPad and whatnot and so it seemed like the thirteen billion [TS]

  might be a high-water mark and now you know there's just been totally [TS]

  obliterated by this quarter that the thing that comes to mind for me I keep [TS]

  thinking about it I don't know why cuz it's not like it's particularly even [TS]

  number of years but for years ago was the debut or no I guess was five years [TS]

  ago so it is kind of a half-decade 25 years ago 2010 was when the original [TS]

  iPad came out [TS]

  right and I remembered there were two things about that key note that I that [TS]

  stand out to me and it's not the iPad in particular but it was that was when they [TS]

  introduced a four SIM card chip and I remember Steve Jobs being very very [TS]

  proud of it [TS]

  wit and in hindsight it wasn't that great of a chip but I feel like the [TS]

  reason that he was bragging about it in hindsight was that he knew the pipeline [TS]

  of day 5 they six right what they were planning to do year after year and how [TS]

  they were going to take control of their own Silicon in the years to come [TS]

  and the other thing I remembered I think that was the event I'm like 98% sure [TS]

  that it was the event where he mentioned that Apple was now a fifty billion [TS]

  dollar a year company I think you're right I do remember being at whatever [TS]

  event that was when he sort of highlighted that for the first time I do [TS]

  remember that right and and you know he said almost the same thing with it like [TS]

  I said here as I you know we don't want to talk to you know we've also right [TS]

  products to talk about but i just want to take a moment and just mark this that [TS]

  we are now Apple is now a fifty billion dollar your company and and sort of [TS]

  saying like you know that's the big boys club in Silicon Valley fifty billion a [TS]

  year in revenue and they did 74 billion in revenue in a quarter since five years [TS]

  later right like and it really was worth marking it was really was remarkable [TS]

  five years ago that Apple was doing fifty billion a year in revenue like [TS]

  that's a huge number it's a ton of money it's way more than Apple did you know [TS]

  for decades [TS]

  forever really until then ever and all of a sudden that you know two-thirds of [TS]

  what I mean what are they gonna hit this year so everyone's obviously talking [TS]

  about in terms of earnings it turns a profit they're actually you know they [TS]

  set the record they eclipsed all those oil companies including the Russian [TS]

  state oil company in terms of the amount of profit-making but they're also very [TS]

  much on track this being you know technically the fiscal quarter one [TS]

  they're very much on track to break the all-time yearly record for that which is [TS]

  also held by all the oil companies there's a there's an outlier for the [TS]

  Fannie Mae [TS]

  thing which is on the Wikipedia page that's that's with the government [TS]

  bailout and everything is sort of lunch not a fair comparison so they're [TS]

  probably gonna set that record in terms of revenue yearly revenues was gonna be [TS]

  this area of 200 billion something like that you know obviously this is the big [TS]

  quarter but then you know next quarter should be pretty big that goes down a [TS]

  little bit and I will spike up again sort of twist back-to-school sales and [TS]

  everything like that I assume two hundred billion something like that it [TS]

  seems within reach [TS]

  definitely cause what 40 40 40 you know get you pretty close [TS]

  that's so crazy and you know remember I guess it was a couple of years ago I was [TS]

  also covering this you know talking about Apple's market cap which you can [TS]

  also make an argument you know isn't really there's there it's sort of [TS]

  symbolic more than its really meaningful what what market cap Exxon means and you [TS]

  know people always argue about that it was a big deal when Apple of course past [TS]

  Microsoft which is which was I don't even know now four years ago or maybe [TS]

  longer than that and that Apple was chasing exxon for a long time in at one [TS]

  point I remember they were something like two hundred billion behind in [TS]

  market cap and it just seemed like impossible if they would ever get there [TS]

  and now there's something there are over 200 million ahead of Exxon now maybe [TS]

  three hundred billion ahead and obviously exons depressed because of the [TS]

  oil situation going on their stock is but it's incredible I think someone has [TS]

  been treating today and and showcasing this that I think Apple's market cap is [TS]

  now just about the exact same as Google and Microsoft combined had pain I [TS]

  somebody tweeted I saw yesterday this recording on Friday January 30 so [TS]

  yesterday I think at the close of market that Apple closed with when the market's [TS]

  closed at exactly double the market cap of Google yeah I guess that would that's [TS]

  right there almost neck-and-neck they're like very first one other so yeah that's [TS]

  right [TS]

  I mean it's almost uncanny how close to exactly double it was which is again [TS]

  it's it's you know it in years past and probably years future you know when [TS]

  Apple's stock is down you know for reasons good or reasons nonsensical it's [TS]

  you know like you said it's not proof of anything it's not like market cap is is [TS]

  an infallible measure but it's at least a measure of what people think of the [TS]

  company [TS]

  yeah and I mean right now the craziest thing of all this is you can make a very [TS]

  good argument that Apple is undervalued on the stock market their trading at [TS]

  multiples that are way below what some of their peers or trading it and given [TS]

  the numbers they just released I mean it's not so insane anymore to think that [TS]

  they could be the first trillion dollar company if they're able to sort of [TS]

  Grameen we can talk about what it would take it would take continuing to grow [TS]

  iPhone and I think we all agree now you know you you they can't continue to do [TS]

  that they don't have a massive market share still so there's there's room for [TS]

  growth and then China I think it's the big sort of factor in that and if they [TS]

  can keep doing that and if the stock market overall keep sort of going up and [TS]

  there's no assurances of that of course it's possible but it's possible so that [TS]

  elephant in the room is the rate in lg but it's it's clearly largely almost [TS]

  two-thirds three course three quarters driven by iPhone iPhone has become an [TS]

  enormous chunk of Apple's business the Mac is historically at an all-time high [TS]

  but still that's you know that's an established market [TS]

  and it's you know 4,000,000 5,000,000 units quarter iPad is down which is [TS]

  weird is not collapsing in you know I saw somebody call it gloomy it's not [TS]

  gloomy emitter dade sold twenty one million iPads last quarter it's just [TS]

  weird though compared to iPhone because it's down 20% year-over-year iPhone is [TS]

  up enormously it's it's almost unbelievable how much it up because I [TS]

  think that was 51 million iPhones they sold a year ago in the holiday quarter [TS]

  and 74 million iPhones this year [TS]

  yeah yeah I think it's if I read the numbers rate someone broke it down a bit [TS]

  stronger I think they're at 69% the iPhone is 69% of apples but shift its [TS]

  revenue or profit but you know it's about it's it's roughly probably both [TS]

  and it's probably higher actually for profit but that's crazy but you're right [TS]

  if you were just to see if you were to take of course iPhone business away from [TS]

  Apple they would still be near the top if not at the top of the biggest sort of [TS]

  business in terms of revenue and then all of those other businesses both the [TS]

  Mac the iPad and even in you know increasingly iTunes App Store now are [TS]

  becoming the if that you broke those out there would probably be Fortune 500 [TS]

  companies in their own right when you think about it which is crazy right [TS]

  because the store items stored on call at iTunes Plus app store is some some [TS]

  number of billion order now right [TS]

  yeah it's it just keeps going up and remember they used to say specifically [TS]

  about the App Store that you know it's it's basically they didn't use the word [TS]

  sort of loss leader but they just said they run it sort of break even right and [TS]

  then they you know it's a whole thought was that I was just out there to sell [TS]

  devices which course you could still make the argument that so that's [TS]

  probably the biggest part of it but they're starting to make a lot of real [TS]

  meaningful money from that store yeah and I think it's always been the case [TS]

  and this is from years ago when it was the numbers were much smaller [TS]

  where a lot of what they made was from the flow where they collect the rainy [TS]

  and it doesn't you know they can do stuff with the money you know just you [TS]

  know they hold it for a little bit and while they're holding it they can you [TS]

  know [TS]

  financial guy thing yeah a little bit of money yr old alike as that money passes [TS]

  through their fingers it you know it's good for them because they don't you [TS]

  know they don't immediately pass it on to their paying out right they they get [TS]

  a little bit of what makes Amazon and some sort of that that aspect of the [TS]

  business right and anybody has developer knows you don't get paid by Apple in [TS]

  till the end of the quarter or the end of the month you know it's you know they [TS]

  hold the money it's not like you get paid every day as people buy your appt [TS]

  right away and then you know two weeks after the month is over you get you get [TS]

  your check from them in meantime they're old enough money in and making money on [TS]

  it and now that it's enormous sums of money it's it's even more so yeah what [TS]

  do you think about the notion that if I'm wrong but they win the Apple [TS]

  watchers really so they announced course it's gonna be shipping in April when [TS]

  it's released [TS]

  they're not breaking that as a separate entity right that's going to be roped in [TS]

  under something else I'm not sure what other services or something but they're [TS]

  not gonna break that out in terms of sales at least to begin with [TS]

  correct so what they said that's what they've said yeah I know everybody's [TS]

  gonna try to backwards engineer it clearly from the you know whatever [TS]

  wherever it is that they reported under right I think that's that's it's sort of [TS]

  interesting to think about it because so I know I know you and I know I and many [TS]

  others have long railed against Amazon for sort of not being transparent with [TS]

  their numbers whereas Apple is we still have no idea how many Kindles have ever [TS]

  been sold I think with this this most recent quarter which Amazon had so there [TS]

  is some hints that you could finally back and do it in a way but they still [TS]

  have never come out indirectly said you know what the number is and with they [TS]

  also announced that this quarter that coming quarter that they will finally be [TS]

  breaking out AWS [TS]

  you know their cloud services infrastructure to be breaking out that [TS]

  revenue as a separate business and so they'll be reporting on that and I think [TS]

  that that's smart the way that they've done it while it has been so you know [TS]

  knowing for anyone trying to get some idea of actually selling if anything [TS]

  obviously they're selling Kindle Fire phones you know those types of things [TS]

  but I would imagine that Apple is first putting the Apple watch under certain [TS]

  this same type of thing that that Apple TV is under though they do announce the [TS]

  Apple TV numbers they just announced you know whatever it was five million sold [TS]

  recently and I think its 25 million total or something like that but I would [TS]

  imagine that they'll they'll keep sort of Apple watch under wraps until there's [TS]

  something more substantial to talk about if there ever is sort of like what [TS]

  Amazon is done with AWS where they wrote that into something else and now that [TS]

  it's substantial they're gonna break it out and actually talk about it [TS]

  yeah I don't know you know for the reputation that Apple has a [TS]

  well-deserved I guess as to being secretive and relatively [TS]

  they don't like to explain themselves you know they they here's our products [TS]

  and that's it I don't like to talk about what they do they're they're very [TS]

  forthcoming and have been in the hole in a modern era of Apple very forthcoming [TS]

  in their financial reporting ya hands and so you know I think about it I can't [TS]

  imagine that we're going to get a I and Apple watch launch without weekend end [TS]

  of weekend sort of report as to how many units were shipped there sorry we're [TS]

  actually sold unless its I don't know I can't imagine that they don't do that [TS]

  right I guess it's it it just seems weird you know I understand it's almost [TS]

  not surprising because their secretive and I feel especially the mix of you [TS]

  know they don't and they don't think they don't reveal and I've never [TS]

  revealed is the mix of iPhones they don't say how many iPhone 6 is resolved [TS]

  how many six-plus how many 5 sees how many five passes [TS]

  they've never revealed that you can kind of get a little bit because they do [TS]

  reveal their average selling price and so you can kind of create a formula that [TS]

  estimated based on the prices that they have but the watch everybody expects [TS]

  that the watch is gonna have an incredibly wide variance in price [TS]

  going from the sport model at 3:52 however much the gold ones gonna cost [TS]

  but most people including me things going to cost at least a couple thousand [TS]

  dollars [TS]

  yeah so the mix on that is going to be way more a way bigger divide than any [TS]

  other product in Apple's business yeah and I wonder if that sort of plays into [TS]

  the notion of why they wouldn't break out to watch too because it will be [TS]

  because of the widespread of prices it would be sort of maybe easier maybe not [TS]

  but you need to know where they must be selling a lot of the gold version cuz [TS]

  look at these numbers are boy there must be something basically no gold versions [TS]

  because if the average selling prices [TS]

  $450 or something like that that's right yeah yeah I don't know I'm not quite [TS]

  sure who knows maybe once the business settles down they will report it and [TS]

  it's just that they don't know what to expect I i you know you know new [TS]

  territory so I don't know so 1211 other notion about the the watch that sort of [TS]

  his been interesting to think about in recent weeks sort of leading up so well [TS]

  two things first [TS]

  do you think are they gonna do some sort of other events before April two more [TS]

  sort of put it out there in front of the world one more time with a with a proper [TS]

  unveiling with all functionality that it's gonna ship with you know working my [TS]

  assumption all along has been yes but now that it's like getting close and I'm [TS]

  starting to like you know make plans for the next couple of months and you know [TS]

  there's a couple conferences that I might go to and I'm thinking like a [TS]

  witch with these things should i maybe not do because I should keep my schedule [TS]

  open [TS]

  I'm starting to wonder why I I'd I've always thought that yes they are going [TS]

  to cause I think they have to show more of the functionality I think they have [TS]

  to reveal more of what the watch does with the first party software in other [TS]

  words right out of the box the stuff that ending and how better to do it than [TS]

  at an event but I kind of also feel like they can't do it if they don't have [TS]

  anything else to show he I think you're right and I think I could so I know now [TS]

  that they are definitely working with some other people some third parties who [TS]

  you would imagine that they would be working with already to sort of get [TS]

  things ready to go for launch and so that definitely points to you know [TS]

  potential other events in unveiling where they have a few of the major [TS]

  players up on stage showing off what the third party can do with this thing right [TS]

  and I feel like there's like three levels there's there's a the first party [TS]

  software what what the watch does right out of the box there's the SDK that [TS]

  they've already revealed which is somewhat limited it's the whole thing [TS]

  where you know you have to have an iPhone app that lets iPhone apps more [TS]

  less projecting notifications to the watch and they even say in this is [TS]

  totally like new open Apple you know Tim Cook you know where they even said when [TS]

  they revealed this initial third-party SDK that a full SDK with native apps [TS]

  will be coming later in 2015 [TS]

  it's not native apps that the software doesn't run on the watch the software [TS]

  with the current SDK runs on the phone and just sort of projects IUI on the [TS]

  watch right there almost widgets I guess in a way it's like a small it's gonna be [TS]

  packed into the iPhone apps yeah I you know it's I feel like it's almost new [TS]

  territory the closest thing that would be something like you know to call it [TS]

  something like a widget widget that you project but then I feel like there's got [TS]

  to be a little [TS]

  not got to be but almost certainly going to be a little bit more sort of blasts [TS]

  partner third parties who are working with apple and we'll have things that [TS]

  aren't in that public SDK but a little bit more like if you are you know are [TS]

  inside if if you've been embraced by Apple if if they've asked you to send [TS]

  the guy or a team to spend three weeks in Cupertino that you're going to have a [TS]

  little bit more tighter integration with the watch right to demonstrate and I [TS]

  haven't looked at the STK North I did what I could really have a great [TS]

  understanding of it but like something like having access to the music that you [TS]

  can store on the watch like his dad available to third parties or is it [TS]

  herbal ok it right now it's only available tap of the audio playback [TS]

  Marco Arment has been looking into that for the obvious reasons [TS]

  podcast app that would be perfectly suited to actually storing some audio on [TS]

  the watch itself so it's not there yet so you could see though there would be [TS]

  an obvious one for like Apple to work with a trusted third party to sort of [TS]

  get you know give them access to it may be at Spotify year or Spotify is sort of [TS]

  a weird wanna know how they would work but something like that you know we're [TS]

  running out if it's something that can access those yeah and and you know there [TS]

  were like clearly before the initial event they had already been talking to [TS]

  some people like Starwood Hotels [TS]

  they said like hey you're gonna be able to check into any Starwood hotel and [TS]

  usually watch as your key and get in your room just by putting to rest up to [TS]

  the door which is awesome in my opinion as somebody who frequently loses his [TS]

  hotel key yeah I was D magnetized mine like when I put it I was keep them in my [TS]

  pocket and I have either like or I give them to my girlfriend and she puts it in [TS]

  a person she is an iPad in there in the iPad has the magnetic clasp and it [TS]

  always be magnetized as the stupid key so they give me a hard time I i've done [TS]

  that too but I've done it and I don't keep it in the same pocket is my phone [TS]

  I keep it in a different pocket and it still doesn't work I know I think the [TS]

  technology distances pretty bad but I don't check into hotels where I've been [TS]

  a frequent customer that I how many kisses 2013 can you got me in the file [TS]

  that I so that you know the idea that you had it but that's clearly something [TS]

  that if they're gonna announce it at the event they would have partners lined up [TS]

  in advance and you think that also it gives them a sort of a natural way to do [TS]

  a little bit deeper dive into Apple pay where it's at right now you know sort of [TS]

  the six month check in or something and then also to show it on the Apple watch [TS]

  actually working obviously that that seems like it's already been a pretty [TS]

  big success for them and and will continue to be so and so that's that's [TS]

  another obvious thing that they would do it such an event would imagine yeah I [TS]

  think and it's apple pear sort of an interesting thing for Apple to me it in [TS]

  terms of how much emphasis they're putting on it and it's sort of like to [TS]

  me it's sort of like what we were talking about just a couple minutes ago [TS]

  the App Store and iTunes Store where they're not making a ton of money on it [TS]

  they're only making you know fraction of very fraction of one percent on each [TS]

  transaction it's small amount per transaction [TS]

  right but it's just about getting entrenched in having me know if once you [TS]

  get used to it you don't want to not have an iPhone anymore because you know [TS]

  and you don't have a pain it just it just is another way to sort of sink [TS]

  their teeth into people's daily lives [TS]

  yeah it's no the money isn't anything to sneeze at [TS]

  you know it's not bad it's a great moat is what it you know when it starts out [TS]

  as and then over time but police said like with the App Store if they can get [TS]

  two interesting sort of transaction volume which they're already well on [TS]

  their way to doing they're gonna be making a lot of money off of that and [TS]

  they can also of course renegotiate the fees with the with the banking partners [TS]

  to get a little bit more money off of it I think they have a lot of sort of [TS]

  wiggle room there to be able to to do to make that into a really really [TS]

  interesting business [TS]

  if they get it to a scale yeah and I i just first-hand i've you know month ago [TS]

  I got a moto the latest model moto acts just to sort of you know you need every [TS]

  year or two you know what's it like to live with the latest and greatest [TS]

  Android and one of the two me weirdest things is an act you know been trying to [TS]

  when I'm using it the days I'm using it I try and leave the iPhone at home just [TS]

  take the the Moto X that single weirdest thing to me out of this two things that [TS]

  are really where one is not having my message is really awful because there's [TS]

  so many people now I don't get text messages they're all a message so my [TS]

  phone is the one going off my phones and you know I pattern going off at home [TS]

  with the blue messages while my mother wax which has a different SIM card you [TS]

  know isn't getting these messages and the second one is Apple pay like I every [TS]

  time I go to Whole Foods with that Moto X in my pocket I take it out of my [TS]

  pocket and then realized up actually have to go back and use my credit card [TS]

  to actually become a habit where I take the phone out before I even remember [TS]

  that our market around with the Moto X I can use it so that's that's interesting [TS]

  for me to hear because being over here an hour a min in London it's not [TS]

  actually live yet I think it might be testing in a few places but I don't even [TS]

  go around and I haven't used it here haven't seen it really anywhere it might [TS]

  be might be starting to roll out in a few drug stores or they may have that [TS]

  sort of thing you know where it will work with another NFC reader but it's [TS]

  not officially supported yet and so the only time that I've got to use it had [TS]

  been when I'm back in San Francisco for work and civilian to use it probably [TS]

  three times or something and it's definitely you know it's it's always [TS]

  cracked up to be in my mind it's just sort of a magical experience which it [TS]

  almost seems like it's little bit crazy when you use it for the first time [TS]

  because it's like did i do I meet are you sure don't need to do anything else [TS]

  and sort of the cashier still ask you like it [TS]

  think I think you're good still that they had early stage period of the of [TS]

  the thing but so you use it regularly that's good to hear that it's it's sort [TS]

  of already in your daily flow where'd you go besides whole foods that use it [TS]

  there's like I know there's Walgreens in some of the bigger stores but due to any [TS]

  like smaller things use it that you recognize the smallest are the cabs that [TS]

  taxis in Philly that they have an end that that's a perfect example of the [TS]

  sort of unofficial support for it where they have these doesn't have an apple [TS]

  logo just has you know stick your phone at the terminal logo right and it works [TS]

  there and there was a total surprise to me because I know I had read those [TS]

  stories that said you know just about anyplace that says you can pay by your [TS]

  phone Apple paperwork and it's just in particular it it's so much more [TS]

  convenient has a lot of times when a minicab I've got my phone out because [TS]

  I'm bored while I'm riding in the cabin I'm on the phone and digging your wallet [TS]

  out while you're in the back seat of a cab is such a pain you know it's like [TS]

  you're sitting there like a contortionist trying to get your stuff [TS]

  out and if you can just stick your phone at the thing it's super Grand in that it [TS]

  just gives you like a thing like what percent tip do you wanna give you wanna [TS]

  give eighteen percent Yes boom and maybe it gives kids a you know a fighting [TS]

  chance against things like her and left and one that caused the problem where I [TS]

  have multiple times sadly enough I take over so much that I will get out of a [TS]

  cab without realizing I have to pay its very awkward and it seems like I'm some [TS]

  sort of crazy or but trying to scam yeah yeah yeah that's you know that's the [TS]

  same sort of convenience though like uber uber is to taxis what apple pays to [TS]

  credit cards I mean it's you get used to that [TS]

  increased level of convenience and you forget you know it's it's it's hard to [TS]

  go back [TS]

  definitely it's like trying to go back to you know an outhouse after you had in [TS]

  indoor plumbing that's a good analogy I like that we're so I would imagine right [TS]

  back in the 1800's when you remember let me take a break and thank our first [TS]

  sponsor for sponsors once again our good friends at fracture their website is [TS]

  fracture you guys on fracture I've talked about him before these other [TS]

  guys who you send them your photos and they print them directly on class I [TS]

  don't know how they do it they've got like some kind of proprietary technology [TS]

  they don't plan on paper and then put them in a frame underneath class they [TS]

  print them directly on the class and an email back to you in these really clever [TS]

  little cardboard kids that are self-contained things that you can [TS]

  either use as a prop stand like if you want to put the photos on your desk or [TS]

  if you wanna hang on a wall they've got a thing on the back reading but the hook [TS]

  but it also contained so when they send them back to you don't have to go and [TS]

  buy a frame and put the fracture prints in a frame go to Ikea and get frames and [TS]

  stuff like that you know what they send you is ready to hang on your wall [TS]

  ready to put on her desk and they look awesome I say this all the time that [TS]

  it's it's to me it's like when they with the iPhone 4 when they first started [TS]

  laminating the LCD screen LED screen to the touch screen and it looked like the [TS]

  pixels were right on the glass instead of under the glass that's exactly what [TS]

  prints from fracture look like except that it's completely analog it's not you [TS]

  know gadget but that's the equivalent for printed pictures [TS]

  really really good they're great gift idea they're a great way to do things [TS]

  like Marco Arment idea where he prints he makes fracture print square ones [TS]

  involve his apps [TS]

  perhaps if you make apps make some fracture prints of your apps you can use [TS]

  those as they give out promotional giveaways or whatever just an amazing [TS]

  amazing stuff if you're going to get your pictures I can't imagine why you do [TS]

  it any other way than actually just sending them to fracturing doing it that [TS]

  way I am over my house I can't even count how many factors we've got in the [TS]

  house so it's pretty much all the pictures from the last few years that we [TS]

  have hanging up our fracture Prince really really good you can save five [TS]

  bucks off your first order if you use this code daring fireball all one word [TS]

  during fireball use that code and you'll save five bucks and the prices are [TS]

  already really really good so go to fracture get some prints and use [TS]

  this code during fireball when you checkout and save five bucks so my [TS]

  thanks to factor what I like about their site is that they compare they show you [TS]

  those the sizes and the comparison is always a campbell's soup container is [TS]

  good sort of a random but but interesting way to compare yeah and [TS]

  because it's like a universal everybody knows how bigger Canis lupus yeah I like [TS]

  that if you use a hand I mean some people's hands are bigger than yeah so [TS]

  Apple's financial results [TS]

  two of the 22 points are really stick out to me one is China and it's clearly [TS]

  a huge source of growth and one of the things that I've been thinking about [TS]

  with that in eight years in to the iPhone era in the early years it's [TS]

  tucked it stood out a lot more but it still is an issue is [TS]

  carriers the carrier support and the growth of the iPhone in the early years [TS]

  I think was clearly largely constrained by the number of carriers you know an [TS]

  especially around the world and it wasn't until 2010 or 2011 when Verizon [TS]

  first got the iPhone I think 2011 but yea but it was you know there's a couple [TS]

  of years even in Aus but at the very least if you wanted an iPhone in the USA [TS]

  it wasn't hard you could switch didn't make you know if you were on Verizon or [TS]

  Sprint or t-mobile or something you have to switch to AT&T but you know say what [TS]

  you want about AT&T at least they are nationwide carriers so everybody could [TS]

  get an iPhone if you want but around the world it was a huge issue like growth in [TS]

  japan was clearly constrained because they were on only on the third biggest [TS]

  carrier in Japan for a long time and China was a similar issue where they [TS]

  weren't on the biggest national carrier in China until fairly recently yeah I [TS]

  think it's it's almost been just about a year right I think it's almost coming up [TS]

  on a year that China Mobile has been right and as much as everybody you know [TS]

  and I you know I think the bigger screen sizes especially in Asia even called it [TS]

  out that it definitely varies by geography how much you know the mix [TS]

  between six and 6 plucks it varies around the globe I don't think it's any [TS]

  secret that in Asia [TS]

  in China and Korea you know that in those countries that the six plus is [TS]

  more popular than it is in other countries so the big screen size is [TS]

  definitely part of it but I think just the fact that it's available is almost [TS]

  overlooked yeah what's a what I find fascinating about that [TS]

  like that at the highest level is Apple you know there was there was definitely [TS]

  some questions when they were moving into the Chinese market will they be [TS]

  able to compete with able to succeed it's a high-end product do you know the [TS]

  difference in and sort of buying power versus the United States and all that [TS]

  kind of stuff and you know subsidies and all that but now that it's clear that [TS]

  Apple's business is doing very well in China and growing very quickly [TS]

  all of you know the the sort of other tech companies that there that they're [TS]

  stacked up against the United States [TS]

  you know there compared to of course Google and Facebook and you know even [TS]

  sweeter and some of these other things that are just how properties right now [TS]

  most of them have no business in China right and Apple has a Giants massive [TS]

  business that a lot of the competition or what is viewed or off often you know [TS]

  mentioned in the same breath as them as their competition just doesn't really [TS]

  have that opportunity at all [TS]

  yeah I completely agree and this is another case where to meet Apple has [TS]

  been if you're paying attention very forthcoming about it for years now I I [TS]

  would say at least during the entire Tim Cook irri like since Steve Jobs stepped [TS]

  down as CEO Tim Cook took the reins I i feel like quarter after quarter after [TS]

  quarter Tim Cook has always made mention of China even before china became it was [TS]

  almost like you know his cap and continues to keep mentioning their [TS]

  growth in China Europe and it's you know again it goes against the idea that [TS]

  Apple is super secretive [TS]

  they've they've been very forthcoming about it and now it's I feel like [TS]

  they're at the point where it's everybody's talking about it because [TS]

  it's gotten to be an enormous part of their business [TS]

  yeah and I wonder if part of that is just honestly because you know when he [TS]

  was still in charge of operations he would go over there i mean that's where [TS]

  that's where all the operations were you know the majority of the operations were [TS]

  were happening and you know while China was always interesting to people because [TS]

  of course there's a billion and a half people there it's the most populous [TS]

  country and and everyone knew that it was sort of coming on mine and becoming [TS]

  more prosperous and sort of becoming more affluence you know maybe his time [TS]

  on the ground there he just knew like no matter what we have to figure this out [TS]

  and we need to do with it what it takes to sort of practice market because [TS]

  eventually we will saturate the United States market and the European market [TS]

  you know not as big already and so where are we going to find that gross and they [TS]

  are position to be able to exploit that the US is right from Apple's press [TS]

  release on their their results International sales accounted for 65% of [TS]

  the quarter's revenue so exact almost exactly two thirds of their revenues [TS]

  outside the USA but that's a big time writing used to be under used to be [TS]

  under 50% and then it was hovering around 50 percent and now it's [TS]

  two-thirds are or what not correct yeah definitely is way up in a big change [TS]

  years ago many red let's say back before especially before the iPhone existed in [TS]

  the first half of the last decade the mobile market around the world was very [TS]

  unevenly distributed where blackberry had a huge share of the us- and was [TS]

  almost non-existent elsewhere and eventually before blackberry sort of [TS]

  imploded they did get popular [TS]

  the world but I'm saying you know ten years ago blackberry was almost a year [TS]

  us' centric phenomenon and like Symbian was European and Asian phenomenon and [TS]

  had no almost no footprint in Aus it was huge in Europe and in Asia and almost [TS]

  non-existent in Aus there weren't any major carriers that had Symbian phones [TS]

  in the USA you know the companies that sold phones in the us- carriers made [TS]

  Symbian phones was weird and I always thought that Apple was a little not [TS]

  quite as as as totally USN triggers by Perry was there but it was similar [TS]

  though where you you know the us- was much much stronger for Apple selling [TS]

  computers [TS]

  yeah well it and the rest of it sort of it's it's not direct directly comparable [TS]

  I guess because obviously blackberry was big with business users began Washington [TS]

  big on wall street but its market was still the at more affluent market right [TS]

  and so they both sort of track to that market for a long time now and I [TS]

  wondered too as time goes on I mean you know Apple is always going to be a us- [TS]

  company I mean it's you know I would say in the grand scheme of things famously [TS]

  that there there rather [TS]

  ur you know in terms of you know they have some remote employees but in [TS]

  general if you work for Apple you're working in Cupertino if you're working [TS]

  on product development you know hardware software they don't really have you know [TS]

  the St have they've just started as Seattle office they've had a good I [TS]

  think the iWorks team has been in Pittsburgh for a long time so there's [TS]

  some people who end those individuals who can get an exception and work [TS]

  remotely but for the most part people work there it's it's always gonna be aus [TS]

  company the culture is very California centric [TS]

  I think that stamping you know designed by Apple in California all their devices [TS]

  is actually very honest it's that's where the company has but I do wonder as [TS]

  time goes on how much an era where spoiled while you're in London now so I [TS]

  don't know but I mean I've always felt like I'm spoiled because everything [TS]

  comes out in Aus on day one [TS]

  well but I wonder how much you know at what point will like China beyond like [TS]

  the day one list for iPhone because I was clearly close enough that it made a [TS]

  big difference in the quarter [TS]

  you know I agree i mean they and they think they talked about that even in the [TS]

  release of cycles it was it was two weeks later something like that that it [TS]

  that the iPhone came out in China so wasn't day one but it was sort of the [TS]

  second wave I think and I actually think about that a lot when it when I was [TS]

  moving over here I'm like wait a long time to get get sort of the new products [TS]

  and they come out but London's now you know sort of day one they had the new [TS]

  iPad's came out the same thing you know what this reminds me of though I think [TS]

  this this tracks with sort of the what hollywood's going through as well right [TS]

  so for a long time movies were released first in the us- and then then they [TS]

  would go abroad like over a long period of time sometimes months now [TS]

  increasingly they're tracking much closer to the us- real-estate in some [TS]

  cases they get released abroad before they get released in the us- and sort of [TS]

  to the to the point I think you're getting at which is in hollywood [TS]

  increasingly important is the asian markets for making the actual money like [TS]

  you know the box office in the us- is now often a minority [TS]

  piece of the pie compared to what they make overseas and so you're starting to [TS]

  see movies like Transformers and things that are more catering towards Asian [TS]

  audiences and I do wonder like you know when that happens with Apple when the [TS]

  tip happens fully that sort of either the asian markets or a combination of [TS]

  Asia and some other areas around there end up being bigger than the USA like do [TS]

  they change the the company in any way to make it more focused on that region [TS]

  do they do sort of specific devices I think we talked with this way back when [TS]

  that like you know in order to sell an iPhone in China they would have to do [TS]

  like special version of it or what not and then it's a notion was always that [TS]

  they would never do that they would always just have sort of a while they [TS]

  could change up the technology inside for the different carriers or whatever [TS]

  they would always there never stray from having sort of a streamlined product [TS]

  line that's offered around the world but doesn't change at all if china becomes [TS]

  like 75% of the business like in the future say I don't know either but it's [TS]

  you know the fact that it's within two weeks is remarkable and and I again I [TS]

  think it's a combination of multiple factors I think it's the fact that [TS]

  they're now on you know the major carrier in China which makes a huge [TS]

  difference in terms of how many people can get it I think the fact that china's [TS]

  economy is growing and that there's an ever-increasing number of Chinese [TS]

  citizens who have the kind of income that they could buy an iPhone I mean [TS]

  clearly a majority of people in China can read no no argument there but there [TS]

  is a you know you know take any percentage of how many billion people [TS]

  there are in China and if 10% or something like that is a huge number of [TS]

  people of the USSR ready that's right it's just enormous I think they reported [TS]

  the dave did you know they called the BRIC countries Brazil Russia India China [TS]

  which is weird because they're they're all very different but it's more or less [TS]

  for countries with a ton of people and you know why the income disparity I [TS]

  guess they're doing well in all four of those countries yeah I would I i haven't [TS]

  looked into it but I would imagine that so india is probably the furthest behind [TS]

  that seems to be the case with basically everything because they're well they [TS]

  also have a billion people there and I think they they would I think they're on [TS]

  pace to eventually Eclipse China in terms of population but they say they do [TS]

  have a billion people were a net well over a billion people right now the [TS]

  society is quite different there and you know it's still the iPhone is still [TS]

  viewed as is way out of reach for most people whereas in China you know there's [TS]

  a there's as you mention there's a growing segment of the population that [TS]

  can and is buying the iPhone right now [TS]

  yeah and I think I think in broad strokes that's exactly right that India [TS]

  may be growing faster population wise but that the economy is nowhere near as [TS]

  strong as China's in terms of a growing you know western style middle class and [TS]

  thats Xiaomi rate is going after night is like their big focus because they [TS]

  know that they have an opening there that Apple probably can't go after at [TS]

  least anytime in the fourth in the next couple of years or something right I [TS]

  totally agree and I think that they have a great opportunity but I feel like all [TS]

  of the can you still see it you still see it where it's you know when Jeremy [TS]

  comes out with something and it's what does it mean for Apple how can I will [TS]

  compete to me [TS]

  Arab huge problem for Samsung and for all the other hand Android handset [TS]

  makers and not the Douro irrelevant Apple but it's it's all in that segment [TS]

  underneath what Apple is targeting that's right I mean just look at what [TS]

  what has happened to Samsung they've been well there you know they're still [TS]

  making a lot of money their growth has been just just totally eaten into in [TS]

  likely by show me and Apple of course at the top end but they're being squeezed [TS]

  your not unlike Microsoft to squeeze in the USA from sorta [TS]

  you know the Chrome OS on the low end and you know MacBook stole sales rising [TS]

  it's the same thing just happened just a very condensed time to Samsung it's it's [TS]

  incredible how fast it happen to Samsung but you know they're in there in the [TS]

  slick precarious situation right now because of that [TS]

  yeah I actually think Samsung revenue and profits are actually down just a [TS]

  good yeah just reported there was one other thing about china is I wonder so [TS]

  another thing about the Chinese market that that you hear come up time and time [TS]

  again is actually that that the watch industry is pretty massive there is as [TS]

  the population grows and affluence they're sort of looking to these [TS]

  different traditional areas of affluence like wine and and watches of course is [TS]

  one and so what does that mean for Apple watch there and I don't know but it [TS]

  could mean major things if if the product is successful that bad you know [TS]

  it because it may be from day one it's a bigger seller in China that it is new s [TS]

  yeah I think so down for maintenance on the show before I saw a documentary [TS]

  couple months ago is great its called red obsession have you seen this now [TS]

  it's about the wine industry great documentary just know the name red [TS]

  obsession but the gist of it is about how that Asian market has completely [TS]

  disrupted sales and price of why I like that they go in those Chinese buyers of [TS]

  wholesale wire will go into like you know high-end French winemaker [TS]

  distillery winery yeah why [TS]

  and just by the Delta they would just come in and just say late will buy all [TS]

  will just take it will just take all of all this is great you're here on this [TS]

  year is this this you know this Bordeaux is fantastic just give it to send all of [TS]

  it to China that's it all and then you know like there's people who are used to [TS]

  bind one from this place in america and you know elsewhere in Europe and they're [TS]

  like what you mean you don't have anything like that I have a very I have [TS]

  a first-hand account of that I was you know being in being situated in Europe [TS]

  now it's pretty easy to obviously get around to go places like Paris and I [TS]

  think we were in Switzerland over the summer and we're in a small little [TS]

  vineyard place in the middle of nowhere and we are there with the only other [TS]

  people in the room is a is a chinese family sort of tasting the wine and you [TS]

  look around and we were you thinking about buying a bottle or whatever they [TS]

  had so few bottles that were actually you know your marks that could be sold [TS]

  to sort of people who walk in so much was earmarked to go to China and even [TS]

  print Chinese labels and this is you know in the middle of some of [TS]

  Switzerland in that's like there this little this little winery ran they are [TS]

  experiencing you know just what you're talking about where they just know that [TS]

  their market now is basically China is a huge part of it and what the percentage [TS]

  was but save 75% and then the rest of world is like 25 percent so they restore [TS]

  some for you know for the rest of the world but then the most of it is just is [TS]

  just going to be sent to China and you know extrapolate from that what happens [TS]

  if china if their economy keeps growing and bigger and bigger percentage of [TS]

  their citizens grow into what we would consider like middle or upper class [TS]

  incomes and you know the potential for growth there's just phenomenal and so [TS]

  what does Saudi I mean like though Apple watch really could be the first product [TS]

  that's that's a massive hits in China bigger than it is in the USA and like [TS]

  this injury that's weird to think about right that they would it's always been [TS]

  that the USA has sort of been the the leader ahead of ahead of the game I [TS]

  guess in terms of apple and technology and in the rest of world sort of catches [TS]

  on by stages and that doesn't also just mean in terms of the USB more affluent [TS]

  you know more buying power or whatever sometimes just you know everything from [TS]

  the Apple releases the products here first that traditionally they have to [TS]

  you know every day being sort of the the benefits of scale and so everyone you [TS]

  know has an iPhone and so you can use things like like airdrop and things like [TS]

  that and so it becomes and and I message and so becomes more compelling option [TS]

  but it hasn't been that another country has really taken off first and I don't [TS]

  think that it's a crazy notion that Apple watch could be one of those things [TS]

  yeah I don't think so either and I think that the the gold models the addition [TS]

  level plays right into that and that's right you know it totally like a feel [TS]

  thing not I think things it doesn't make logical sense right it logically it [TS]

  makes no sense for anybody to buy the gold version of the watch if they are [TS]

  women and one does the exact same function it $350 but thats jewellery [TS]

  jewelry is entirely a you know how it makes you feel type thing not like a [TS]

  logical thing nobody needs any kind of jewelry and you know it's a long you [TS]

  know it's a long standing you know it goes back to the beginnings of human [TS]

  civilization its there's no you can't argue with that but I feel like in [TS]

  america it's you know let's just say when they when they do come out with the [TS]

  watch and they announced the final pricing and let's say that the [TS]

  additional ones are four thousand dollars there's I'm telling I still [TS]

  think even after all these months of people say hey I think these cold ones [TS]

  might cost thousands of dollars I think these golden cost thousands of dollars [TS]

  when they announced it [TS]

  town in America people are gonna shit their pants are ya gonna be like I [TS]

  cannot I cannot believe this that you know they're out of their Jony ive has [TS]

  lost his fucking mind you know and in the meantime people in China [TS]

  and and Asia you know other places in asia are gonna start lining up to buy [TS]

  yeah I totally agree with you i mean maybe it's because it's just there needs [TS]

  to be a mindset change which only can happen sort of overtime I think everyone [TS]

  including me even when I think about it I'm doing this is a technology product [TS]

  what technology product will I would I buy these days that costs a five port [TS]

  for $5,000 I mean it used to be television's costs that much now they [TS]

  don't anymore they've come down in price a lot [TS]

  used to be computers cost that much now they don't anymore they're about half [TS]

  that price for a high end one and so what else is there out there in the [TS]

  technology world that would cost that amount of money I mean trying to think [TS]

  of something now and I can't really come up with anything right and so this [TS]

  office in this small little gadget becomes the most expensive piece of [TS]

  technology that you can buy on the market and why on earth would anyone do [TS]

  that when you can also get basically the same thing you know for $350 for the [TS]

  Sport Edition or whatnot and age it's exactly what you said you have that [TS]

  mentality has to shift around it that this is actually jewellery and that's i [TS]

  mean you know that's why Apple is doing what they're doing and that's where [TS]

  they're hiring the people at their hiring obviously some serious cultural [TS]

  differences to wear and I'm not an expert on Yemen Ben Ben Thompson is he [TS]

  lives over there but I mean I know enough about Asia though to know that [TS]

  they're they're culturally their view of money is very different than us in the [TS]

  west and the West not that whereas shamed of it but it's money is [TS]

  considered like a private matter if you're wealthy it's considered on kuthe [TS]

  to flaunt it right and in Asia that's not the case at all so I can remember [TS]

  specifically like when the watch was first announced it was listening to [TS]

  accident tech podcast and Marco Arment had just said something something I [TS]

  think it in reference to the gold ones that like if he was at WWDC next year [TS]

  after the water's out he would be embarrassed to be out like you know [TS]

  having cocktails at five or six in the afternoon after the BBC and have a gold [TS]

  watch everybody know it was four thousand dollars and I know exactly what [TS]

  he's talking about [TS]

  I know you know I sort of feel the same way whereas in asia that wouldn't nobody [TS]

  would ever that nobody would ever say that nobody would ever say I'm [TS]

  embarrassed to have what everybody knows is a $4,000 watching my rest now that's [TS]

  a that's a great point I mean and I think that's true you see that even [TS]

  before the watch like when you know when you buy one of the new iPhones for the [TS]

  first time you know day one you get it and you know that like plenty of people [TS]

  all know that this is especially its a with six-plus because it's such a [TS]

  different size so everyone's going at like wow that guy just dropped you know [TS]

  whatever $700 to get that that phone and I'm still stuck here with the with the [TS]

  3G S model and you know one day you know I have to get that but there's there's [TS]

  already that sort of that sort of saying where you're you're looking at this it's [TS]

  like yeah everyone's gonna know that I just spent $700 and it's even though [TS]

  it's an awesome device and and I want to use it out there it's like should I [TS]

  really take this out of my pocket here and you know sort of flaunted in front [TS]

  of everyone [TS]

  let's take a break and I think our second sponsor it's our good friends at [TS]

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  the use of back place is you know one file at a time they've got years of [TS]

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  I don't know any other word for how much they're backed up terabytes whatever is [TS]

  bigger than terabytes to petabytes I think it's such a great thing I've got [TS]

  it I've been using it forever I hope I would wholeheartedly recommend ademas [TS]

  they were a sponsor the show just install it [TS]

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  five bucks a month and you have everything backed up safe and sound [TS]

  outside your house in the cloud where do you go go to Backblaze dot com slash [TS]

  daring favorable / during fireball that way you came from the show so back [TS]

  please go sign up here's another thing about the iPhone I i wanna talk to you [TS]

  about this country written about it [TS]

  the iPhone 5 see i think is the most misunderstood iPhone Apple's ever made [TS]

  do you think the iPhone 5 see what it what do you think the point of the [TS]

  iPhone 5 see so I might have changed I don't know obviously I mean I've even [TS]

  talked to anyone sort of with s/s hand knowledge of this of like what the point [TS]

  was and I don't know I don't have a good enough sense of that to know for sure [TS]

  but my thought process has changed over time you know at first you know everyone [TS]

  is talking about of course is that is the cortical cheap iPhone which ended up [TS]

  being incorrect and then it became sort of the first products that was launched [TS]

  under the unified Jony ive you know sort of design and software and hardware [TS]

  design it out alright so it was Iowa seven and you know we got the new flat [TS]

  sign the colorful sort of Florissant look and those whose phone seemed to go [TS]

  nicely with that right I still think even I still have you know a blue model [TS]

  of the iPhone iphone5 see that I still think it is I know I'm sort of in the [TS]

  minority here but I thought it was a beautiful device when paired with I was [TS]

  seven at the time and anyone who have upgraded at Iowa State it sitting in a [TS]

  drawer somewhere obviously with suicide 16 now but it was a beautiful device and [TS]

  sort of you know the way it played with the wallpapers that they had 44 Iowa [TS]

  seven and it just seemed like it was it was a device that johnnie I wanted to [TS]

  create to showcase the new software that he was creating for the first time [TS]

  whereas the iPhone 5 ass was you know also you know a great design great [TS]

  industrial design but different it was sort of the extension of what they had [TS]

  already done before doing this new software and so that was my thought [TS]

  process for a while then you know apple just didn't sort of continued the line [TS]

  right and so now we have the six in the six plus and we have no we have three [TS]

  colors three sort of $0.10 each of those but no no more colorful range anymore [TS]

  and now we're sort of going towards as we head towards Apple watchword that's [TS]

  obviously going to be the most customizable Apple device that has ever [TS]

  done you know maybe that's enough to sort of placate the people who wants a [TS]

  different type of design and and I don't know what are your thoughts on it I i [TS]

  feel like i feel like i give myself credit [TS]

  for not really buying into the whole like it leaked months in advance that [TS]

  they were doing a plastic phone and that's just inevitable when you're [TS]

  making things in this quality that it that news leaks from the Asian supply [TS]

  chain and everybody know not everybody but the conventional wisdom 100 Apple's [TS]

  going after cheap cheap market they're gonna sell this thing [TS]

  cheap cheap cheap cheap and then it wasn't cheap it was like you know [TS]

  unlocked it was started at like 550 bucks which is not by anybody's you know [TS]

  certainly cheaper than the 5s was but it wasn't cheap and I never bought into [TS]

  that I never made sense to me that Apple would suddenly March after the low end [TS]

  of the market and just go for market share so I gave my steelo patted myself [TS]

  on the back for getting the five seed just because I did never bought into it [TS]

  being cheap but I think I missed the boat just by just by thinking well it's [TS]

  not going to be cheap isn't enough I almost feel like in hindsight when it [TS]

  came out it wasn't even today didn't want to sell in the first year but it [TS]

  almost wasn't even meant for that year I think it was meant for the long haul and [TS]

  like where it is now at the you know the free with contract level of right I [TS]

  found that it had you know the new aspect ratio for the screen it wasn't [TS]

  three and a half inches it was four inches and sixteen by nine and the guy I [TS]

  do that I agree with you i think they're proud of the industrial designer I think [TS]

  Apple really likes that look and I think again I think you're right it's very [TS]

  astute that it it does seem to be much more in harmony with the aesthetics of [TS]

  Iowa S seven and eight then the aluminum found the 5s sexes [TS]

  and I know a lot of people not tons but I know enough you know who who have the [TS]

  five see because they just don't like the way it looks [TS]

  slower even though yeah yeah yeah you know that the iPhone a sort of gotten to [TS]

  the point where you know whatever the difference in performance is doesn't [TS]

  matter they're not waiting for anything anyway it doesn't take any longer you [TS]

  mostly waiting for stuff to download right Instagram doesn't run slower on [TS]

  the five seats you just waiting for the pictures to come down the pipe [TS]

  yeah just like the way it looks and I almost feel it was all about like [TS]

  establishing an aesthetic that fits at the lower end of the product line so [TS]

  that they don't have the free with contract phone being a premium that's a [TS]

  really interesting thought I I totally understand what you are saying there [TS]

  because it it it's weird when you buy something brand new like say the the six [TS]

  now and then you know in two years this is going to be viewed as sort of the the [TS]

  quote-unquote whether it's fair not the cheap version right it's going to not [TS]

  only will it we all know things too great in value over time as they're sort [TS]

  of used in everything but it's weird that the notion that as soon as you buy [TS]

  it you know that in two years this will be on you know sort of Verizon had [TS]

  spread saying like three and this is this is the cheap version now and so if [TS]

  Apple can get around that by creating a product that sort of separate from the [TS]

  high end to begin with from the high in meeting their actual most expensive [TS]

  things even though it as we just talked with its not that much cheaper that [TS]

  creates a different sort of psychological dynamic to it I also think [TS]

  and I so I'd written opposed to a long time ago maybe a year ago I guess [TS]

  talking about like how hot it is that every advert advertisement I see around [TS]

  but I think it was around still San Francisco and sort of I think I was in [TS]

  Seattle actually when I saw one [TS]

  that sort of made me think about this that every and I was saying was for the [TS]

  iPhone 5 seed and not the 5s there are few ads for 5s but almost all of them [TS]

  are certainly around the bay area before the fight see and I first interpreted [TS]

  that as it must not be selling well in Apple feels like they need to pump up [TS]

  their advertising disorder boosted up and that may have been the case I don't [TS]

  really know but I did get a lot of pushback foreign I think some of it was [TS]

  astute push back thinking like actually this is sort of the perfect device along [TS]

  lines of what we're just like that this is sort of the perfect device for Apple [TS]

  to showcase in their advertisements cuz its colorful it sort of goes perfectly [TS]

  with iOS 7 it's it's sort of part of this the playful adds that Apple likes [TS]

  to do and so it ended up being in a way like the the poster child for a long [TS]

  time for for all those ads around different cities in the USA certainly in [TS]

  the USA dunno but there's the world and what if it was like you know just sort [TS]

  of product that they thought was really beautiful and they knew that it could [TS]

  sort of get people in the stores by having these colorful ads and then you [TS]

  know that either they buy this device and that's great for them or they you [TS]

  know they decide to buy the more expensive device yeah I remember that [TS]

  post and it actually why brother but I don't know how I look it up in open the [TS]

  show but I do remember that post and I remember disagreeing with it because it [TS]

  was right around the time when it first started dawning on me that I had had [TS]

  underestimated the five see and like I said I think that this year is the year [TS]

  where the five see is exactly where Apple wanted to be I feel like it's I [TS]

  feel like the hardest part of Apple's business is now that they're they've hit [TS]

  these insane quantities for iPhones it's really really hard and they're they're [TS]

  pipeline is so long like how do you how do you ship 74 million new iPhones and [TS]

  who knows what percentage of them where they are 26 but I think it's a majority [TS]

  of them [TS]

  quarter how do you make that many in the first quarter that it's available [TS]

  well part of them how they do it is that it planned out years in advance I mean [TS]

  like I think it's about a two-year pipeline for their iPhones you know like [TS]

  more or less that the iPhone 6 in six-plus where a you know about two [TS]

  years in the making and it's dangerous for them and I feel like that's partly [TS]

  why there I think in hindsight they were probably a year late to the big phone [TS]

  market I think I could if they can go back and do everything over again I [TS]

  think that they would probably put the iPhone 6 in six-plus one year ahead on [TS]

  the schedule as it was but it takes too long for them to get everything set up [TS]

  so they can make these qualities they can't act fast and just say ok we'll [TS]

  make a five and a half inch phone but we're only gonna be able to make a [TS]

  million of them because it's new and we're not ready for it what they can't [TS]

  do that they can't have a phone that they can only make a million of in the [TS]

  first quarter [TS]

  yeah I agree but I feel like the five CEO was something where they were [TS]

  thinking ahead over a year and they wanted to have a phone that sat at this [TS]

  sort of you know at all in fact they've gone to four levels right they've got [TS]

  the six plus which is $100 more for the same specs compared to the sex so [TS]

  they've got the six plus where you pay $100 premium for the bigger screen with [TS]

  the extra pixels then there's the sexes which sits where the iPhone always had [TS]

  the new iPhones always have the same price levels than one cut down $100 down [TS]

  as the 50 S which is still a premium device right the 5s is an end [TS]

  you know we we could do all sure that but in my opinion is still my favorite [TS]

  iPhone that they've ever made and now the five see at that free with contract [TS]

  level is so much more natural than if they were selling if they had stuck to [TS]

  the original plan and hadn't made this one device that is so unusual [TS]

  with you know the plastic body and it never was at the high end you know [TS]

  effectively the five see is where if they had stuck to the plan and done the [TS]

  same thing they've done every other year that would still be the up the original [TS]

  iPhone 5 without the s right and instead which is like visually indistinguishable [TS]

  from the 5s accepted you know it doesn't have to jad but at a glance it looks the [TS]

  same whereas now it at a glance it's instantly recognizable as yes that's a [TS]

  good point I definitely think I've written about that as well that's sort [TS]

  of notion as well that there was a problem with slides where they look the [TS]

  same and so it's not it's like well yes they're faster inside like what is what [TS]

  is it that sort of differentiating on the outside there was nothing for a [TS]

  while and now the five-star see gives you a very differentiated factor but [TS]

  what do you think then you know sort of the obvious lead into that is what do [TS]

  you think they end up doing the next iteration so we're coming up on you know [TS]

  the fall of 2015 the assumption I would assume is that they do an iPhone 6 ass [TS]

  and then do they have an iPhone 6 see and what do they do with the do they [TS]

  have up plus S and how do they keep going be right how big would it be four [TS]

  point seven inches or would write 5.5 would it be both I don't think it would [TS]

  be both I think that they say it's a question I I'm really kind of at a loss [TS]

  to guess what they're gonna do this year like I kind of guessed they're gonna do [TS]

  at the high end success success plus which should be this look a lot like [TS]

  that you know just the typical ass you know tick tock provisions right [TS]

  but then what do they do it that pricing level below where the 5 S's now and I [TS]

  really wonder do they keep this six and six plus and I'm so we're getting pretty [TS]

  convoluted that it that he has to what what the offerings are ya I don't think [TS]

  so I kind of feel and I kinda feel like the way that there and it it's somewhat [TS]

  arbitrary cuz I don't think that the actual cost is that much different for [TS]

  the different sizes but I kind of feel like if I had to guess maybe like to [TS]

  call it a sexy and it would be a four-inch screen but with the specs of [TS]

  the iPhone sex so that's interesting because one thing that has always been [TS]

  humorous to me for the past couple of years now remember when the iPhone first [TS]

  came out and everyone was clamoring like we need an iPhone Nano and you know in [TS]

  this is when the iPhone was a 3.5 inch screen the original iPhone and people [TS]

  are saying it's too big like we you know where we're coming from where the flip [TS]

  phones like that and the razor and things the Motorola RAZR we need a [TS]

  smaller device I gotta want anything bigger and now it's like no one talks [TS]

  about that anymore and when you do hold even even a 55 s you know next to the [TS]

  six plus it's sort of comical how small it seems and I don't even know unless [TS]

  I'm hoping for was let alone you know some of the even older ones but do you [TS]

  think that they go to a world where we have now the six-inch screen the fuck is [TS]

  it a five five and a half inch screen and then is it a four-inch screen or do [TS]

  they do some other like variation on that but is the three skews it seems to [TS]

  me like three screws is pretty good because you can offer different things [TS]

  that each for what people want some people wanna smoke might want a smaller [TS]

  phone the problem of course is what developers it's a pain in the ass to [TS]

  have to you know [TS]

  supports all of these different screen sizes still and so Apple traditionally [TS]

  as you know is has been pretty good about retiring older sort of technology [TS]

  and making it so that you don't have to support that rather you know they they [TS]

  push forward but what do you think that they would do there I don't know it's [TS]

  it's interesting to me i i whether they say four point seven like one way they [TS]

  could go with me to say four point seven is the new small i font size and now the [TS]

  $99 mid tier $99 with contract mid tier phone is also 4.7 inches they could do [TS]

  that and then that to me would be a strong signal that the four inch size [TS]

  you know I'm sure the David still have something at the you know free with [TS]

  contract level that still has a Florence screen at the end of next year but that [TS]

  it's on the way out but on the other hand I could see them going nowhere they [TS]

  still say you can still get a four-inch phone you know we've got you know small [TS]

  medium and large touch screen sizes and you know four-inch is our mid tier size [TS]

  they would you know have the same 908 from the iPhone so the camera from the [TS]

  iPhone sex but a four inch form factor but with that form factor be plastic [TS]

  like 25 C or would it be [TS]

  metal like the five ass i dont yeah and I guess the you know the other the other [TS]

  thing to bring up the stat I think now we're at the point now where everything [TS]

  has the Lightning connector we are right now we are without yeah yeah that's but [TS]

  we're not at the place where everything has touch I D and I assume that Apple [TS]

  wants to get there for Apple pay especially and then just overall to [TS]

  simplify and make it easier for developers who are trying to support [TS]

  such a lady and and you know there's the fall back of course of just using [TS]

  passwords but I would assume that they want to get everyone on touch ADC even [TS]

  the lower end ones do you think you agree with that [TS]

  well I don't know if that's the case so the weird thing it's like I said like I [TS]

  think like this year right now until the end of the year the five seed is exactly [TS]

  what Apple one it they've got this you know [TS]

  a nice phone everybody likes it it's easily advertise its colorful but [TS]

  because they didn't [TS]

  Revit last year my assumption is at the end of this year the five see as we know [TS]

  it goes away that just you know falls off the bottom of the product list and [TS]

  it's gone and it's replaced by what if they just keep moving things down the [TS]

  line it would be replaced by the 5s which does have touched I D but doesn't [TS]

  do retail Apple pay like it only does Apple pay like in apps which doesn't [TS]

  seem to have taken off via right cause it doesn't have see right and also if [TS]

  they do that it goes against my thinking that they want the bottom of the line [TS]

  phone to not have that premium met all industrial design so I don't like they [TS]

  come out with a new plastic model that debuts at that three tier III well it [TS]

  seems like an awful lot of new as KU's yes yes it is I also feel like part of [TS]

  it's just part of the reason that they can make all these new iPhones is that [TS]

  they're only making one one or two new phones a year and the other ones are [TS]

  these things in the 50 S that they are taught how to make and it just you know [TS]

  just keep making them like you did last year you know the other thing that there [TS]

  is a wrench into it is what they did this year and and this is another [TS]

  discussion [TS]

  you know to the iPad Mini where they didn't update the internals at all but [TS]

  they gave it touch I D and like why why even bother to do that you know when [TS]

  there when it was the only sort of upgrade that they did and now there's a [TS]

  whole debate you know did the iPhone is the iPhone six-plus eating into iPad [TS]

  Mini sales specifically and what do they do with the future of that line and is [TS]

  there a future of that [TS]

  yeah it's a good question I you know so maybe I don't know I could they'd come [TS]

  out with a good the equivalent of a five see but just add to jad yep potentially [TS]

  that still would be there would be something that I might guess would be [TS]

  something that they do because I do agree that they want to keep obviously [TS]

  they want to have differentiating factors for the premium but I do think [TS]

  that [TS]

  their strategy is is pretty strong right now around Apple pay and I would imagine [TS]

  that they want what we talked about earlier they want that to be the most [TS]

  remote a new mode that sort of creates a reason why you're in the Apple ecosystem [TS]

  regardless of which device you have and so my guess would be yes they have [TS]

  something like an iPhone 6 see that has touched I D and NFC they had both of [TS]

  those to it and then maybe like old and seriously older a series chips or [TS]

  something right and that's how they differentiate its not nearly as fast as [TS]

  sort of the high end and it's maybe plastic and plastic not as fast cameras [TS]

  not quite as nice but it does still have Apple pay in touch I D [TS]

  at the very least I can't imagine that they'll never at any price point I can't [TS]

  imagine ever come out with any new iPhones that don't do and if CNN [TS]

  yeah to question the big question is how you know if they keep the 5s around [TS]

  though and move it down the product here right you know that another year then [TS]

  they have a phone that doesn't have a pain and yeah I mean that's interesting [TS]

  dilemma for them to have though they've said they've always done what they're [TS]

  fine in the past sort of keeping those products around longer than anyone else [TS]

  thinks that they should and obviously they they they have the data to back [TS]

  that up they should do that yeah totally I i want to tell you about a new sponsor [TS]

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  they really seems like a great great deal anything else on your mind [TS]

  know how I mean [TS]

  I'm still so I was back in San Francisco win couple weeks ago for a while and you [TS]

  know I've been sort of going back and forth about Apple was so unlike you I [TS]

  wasn't at the events the unveiling and so I didn't get a chance to sort of see [TS]

  it and sort of get a better sense of what it was I watched you know the Keno [TS]

  sort of great that they stream it live and so I can watch it here despite their [TS]

  technical hiccups sure you heard about you know they really bad but it takes a [TS]

  little bit for the simulator one but so I wasn't sure really what to make of [TS]

  apple and I'm still sort of trying to get there but I had a number of [TS]

  interesting discussions of people more in the know while I was back and sort of [TS]

  thinking through things where this is going to go and I'm starting to get a [TS]

  lot more bullish on Apple iTouch then I was to begin with not to say that I was [TS]

  bearish on it but I was wondering I was sort of wondering a lot of what we [TS]

  talked about sort of you know how many people are going to pay a premium for [TS]

  for a cold one how many people are going to buy the the addition one of many [TS]

  people are gonna buy you know that the cheaper sport 1 and and what does it [TS]

  mean and then when they released SDK and just like we talked about earlier it [TS]

  sort of seems like there were more widgets like apps rather than true [TS]

  absent it seemed like you know Apple was already telepathic into the future where [TS]

  they're going to make them more robust up so they're almost like saying like [TS]

  yeah we're gonna put this out there but v2 of this is going to be really is when [TS]

  things get really interesting and so you know it's it's sort of the old problem [TS]

  that Apple's had amongst many people who believed you know like don't buy the [TS]

  first version of something like they always make it better the second version [TS]

  but I am definitely getting more bullish on it now after having sort of had a few [TS]

  chats and and learned a lot more about about what it's actually doing where's [TS]

  your mind out with it I have never been either bullish or bearish I even having [TS]

  been at the event [TS]

  and even having you know I don't get to use it because they were all running the [TS]

  demo software but I did get to try one on I i've always been ambivalent like [TS]

  tell me more like I need to know more about this before I can't even decide [TS]

  either way to me the big I still feel that way that's why I say alternately I [TS]

  still feel like they've they're probably gonna have another event before it comes [TS]

  out and you know it if the other rumors are right and they're gonna do like a [TS]

  bigger iPad that would make sense to do it all in one of that and so there is a [TS]

  new thing which is a bigger you know bro size 11 incher 12 inch iPad so here's [TS]

  the new thing and here is more on this thing we announced in September the [TS]

  Apple watch which is now imminent and let us show you more that to me feels [TS]

  like they don't even need to do anymore that's a perfect Apple new iPad at a new [TS]

  size you know and if the thing about the stylus is right there's all sorts of [TS]

  demos they can do their you know bring up somebody some third party with you [TS]

  know to show some kind of Wacom style professional artwork being drawn on the [TS]

  thing and then you know show me more about the Apple watch that thing that [TS]

  gets me and it is the confidence that Apple seems to have about the watch it's [TS]

  not what they've told us and what you can read at / watch it's the [TS]

  confidence that Tim Cook has and everybody else who's spoken about it [TS]

  publicly they're so confident about it that to me it's it seems like it would [TS]

  be reckless to bet against it because they're not they're not the type of [TS]

  people who breathlessly promote everything and anything that they do I [TS]

  agree with you definitely I think that that is something that makes it so you [TS]

  can obviously you can't write it off we could ever write it off [TS]

  being from Apple these days but their confidence is is pretty fascinating the [TS]

  the way that they're positioning it there obviously still doing this like [TS]

  world tour of going around attacking the various people in the fashion industry [TS]

  hiring the various people in the fashion industry to to bring them in to make [TS]

  sure that they're ready to go for for this does [TS]

  was it all adds to sort of the the feeling and getting but I also just I'm [TS]

  starting to get a better sense of what I think that they think they can do with [TS]

  it I do think that the early days will be maybe a little bit underwhelming at [TS]

  first because they're only going to work with you know a handful of of people as [TS]

  they always do behind the scenes to get third party apps order ready to go for [TS]

  when this thing launches in there gonna be obvious things that it'll be largely [TS]

  predicated on push notifications I would assume but I do I am starting to believe [TS]

  more that there's there's different types of things that third-party [TS]

  developers will be able to accomplish and maybe it takes to the second SDK the [TS]

  more robust thing for its a really get there but you know I'm reminded back to [TS]

  the when the iPhone first came out and you know we had sort of developers [TS]

  making the web apps because they didn't have access to actually making native [TS]

  apps the time only Apple did so it's not exactly what's going on here but we are [TS]

  getting a little bit of what feels like a muted SDK for third-party developers [TS]

  right now I think it's somewhat analogous I think it's a little bit [TS]

  better than that web apps of 2011 but it's close it's it's not a bad analogy I [TS]

  agree and so now I'm trying to think through you know when Apple released the [TS]

  second sorta SDK for the iPhone that that allowed for tornadoes [TS]

  second sorta SDK for the iPhone that that allowed for tornadoes [TS]

  fat development it was insanely exciting to everyone but no one really knew what [TS]

  would happen we knew games would come and and they would be sort of silly [TS]

  little apps begin with which they were there were you know many and then it [TS]

  wasn't clear there would ever be like big businesses right real business is [TS]

  built on top of that and look at it now I mean how many how many billion dollar [TS]

  businesses have been built on top of the iPhone alone baby you know any Android [TS]

  and iPhone is what kicked it off it's like Instagram and all these other [TS]

  things that are that were you know I was only at the time and is there a way this [TS]

  is what I'm trying to think through is there a way for the watch to do [TS]

  something similar [TS]

  eat your instinct is that sounds ridiculous right like that that there's [TS]

  that there's a swatch the small little device that's that's that's just seems [TS]

  like more of a novelty or is it going to actually be something that big [TS]

  businesses can be built on and I think that there's two camps there's there's [TS]

  people who believe that eventually we will get to that place in there can be [TS]

  sort of new new interactive paradigms with like sort of the tactic feedback [TS]

  stuff in there will be new types of messaging apps that we haven't thought [TS]

  of yet but then there's the other group that i think is more along the lines of [TS]

  luck the Apple watchers what it is it's just another mode for the iPhone iPhone [TS]

  it's a way you can't use it right now without the iPhone it it's a paired [TS]

  device with that and so it makes the iPhone more attractive to iPhone owners [TS]

  and it makes it gives people may be another reason to buy an iPhone rather [TS]

  than choosing an Android device or some other similar device yeah I i dont know [TS]

  I feel like both of those scenarios are possible I do feel like ultimately it's [TS]

  you know just the march of technology is that eventually it will be independent [TS]

  like it won't need you know it will have its own internet access without an [TS]

  iPhone [TS]

  just did it to me exactly the way that the iPhone used to need a Mac or PC [TS]

  running iTunes to sync I mean it's so it seems crazy they need to get contacts on [TS]

  your iPhone was single computer using a cable and I kind of feel like the watch [TS]

  needing a phone it within Bluetooth range to get internet is the same thing [TS]

  like you know three four five years from now we're gonna laugh at the fact that [TS]

  you couldn't get text messages on your phone unless you were within 20 feet of [TS]

  your are under watch unless you within 24 your phone but in the meantime I do [TS]

  feel like that's the way that you bootstrap it is that it's again like you [TS]

  said I come over around the iPhone think that's how it debuts and then all of a [TS]

  sudden you realize you know two three four years from now it's a town that's [TS]

  right I agree with that and I think I think they're going about it the right [TS]

  way with everything that they've sort of shown so far you know having used a lot [TS]

  of these other sort of wearable devices they're all the old range from either [TS]

  very bad to sort of just mediocre there's no great one right now and I [TS]

  think a lot of it is that a lot of a lot of these companies have just basically [TS]

  taken the phone paradigm that the smartphone the touchscreen paradigm and [TS]

  slapped on the wrist and apple with this crown sort of interaction there trying [TS]

  to actually think about what they should do i mean you're putting your hand when [TS]

  you're touching the screen all the time you're completely covering the screen [TS]

  like why would you do that you know so like the crown where you can zoom in and [TS]

  out that that's like sort of is an obvious thing in hindsight that i think [TS]

  is is is going to be sort of a killer feature that everyone ends up copying of [TS]

  course but it's it's things like that that make me more excited about the [TS]

  prospects for it though I agree with sort of everything we're saying which is [TS]

  that the first iteration it will take awhile to approve these things that yeah [TS]

  I think that the crown in particular is one of the reasons why why did announce [TS]

  it when they announced it well part of it is like I wrote I wrote this week [TS]

  that part of it i think is [TS]

  that they wanted to announce it before it went into production because once it [TS]

  went into production it was inevitably going to leak and in fact did leak there [TS]

  was a big one day before they announced that there actually were like blueprints [TS]

  that leaked that that were you know in hindsight we're pretty much spot on [TS]

  exactly spot-on they didn't get a lot of publicity because they weren't real [TS]

  pictures but if it did happen even a week earlier somebody you know could [TS]

  have done like a 3d rendering and and and spoiled that they really wanted to [TS]

  be the ones to unveil it and they're glad they did a six months is about the [TS]

  outer limit I think for when Apple could do it I think any no I think it's also [TS]

  possible that in in like an ideal world if everything had gone according to plan [TS]

  maybe it wouldn't be shipping in April maybe it would have been shipping like [TS]

  in February and it's just you know enough bugs still remain enough kinks [TS]

  still remain in software that they need the extra two months before they feel [TS]

  comfortable shipping but it also I definitely heard that they did want to [TS]

  do this in the fall and it just originally yes definitely yes like in [TS]

  hindsight with some of Tim Cook's remarks like it all things D or whatever [TS]

  you know I think the year before that they you know they have their products [TS]

  to release all throughout 2014 yeah I think like two years ago they were [TS]

  thinking like a holiday release for 2014 so I think it's I think that's [TS]

  definitely the case I've heard the same thing to like internally that it's you [TS]

  know now that they're shocked I don't think it's like a disaster I just think [TS]

  it's just not the best case scenario yeah there's soft it and it's it's [TS]

  largely software rather than yes the hardware that's going on its software is [TS]

  hard to nail this this new sort of paradigm that they're trying to do [TS]

  yeah I think that the hardware that the and who knows I mean you know that [TS]

  they're letting us crack open the demo units back in September but I'm pretty [TS]

  sure that the hardware they showed us at the event in September is exactly the [TS]

  hardware tend to show they're pretty sure that it is yeah the end [TS]

  they're like internally like Johnny Ives team is already working on the next [TS]

  revision of the hardware like they've you know the hardware is done and [TS]

  defined and you know it's that screen and that chip and that medal and you [TS]

  know everything down to the band that stuff is all done it yet I think it's [TS]

  all software that's still being worked on and of course the component of that [TS]

  is the battery life and what do you think about certain that I'm sure you [TS]

  saw the mark fuhrman report about the the breakdown of the battery life issue [TS]

  and so it's you know I think was 2.5 hours of of full active usage which is a [TS]

  little bit misleading because [TS]

  are you gonna be sitting there on your watch for two two and a half straight [TS]

  hours to using it straight through no but what do you say is you is that like [TS]

  in the ballpark you thought it would get to yeah I think that the basic just is [TS]

  that they need to make it so there are fewer and act if you use your Apple [TS]

  watch thoroughly that you can still get through a day no problem I've seen some [TS]

  stuff you know the demo units they showed us and all the screenshots the [TS]

  showers don't show a battery meter all the time and the the simulator in Xcode [TS]

  does so there's some question as to whether you know where they are the [TS]

  actual production one's going to do [TS]

  how are you going to check the battery like it seems as though what they've [TS]

  shown us so far is that you're not supposed to even I'm sure there some way [TS]

  to do it like go into settings in there you know if you really want to check [TS]

  your battery they'll be a way I feel like what they want to do is just get it [TS]

  so that it you know if you charge it every night you'll be fine and you don't [TS]

  have to worry about it and you forget to charge it one night you're probably [TS]

  gonna it's probably died the next day and you know one day so as we know what [TS]

  the phones now and iPad and everything else like the biggest drop our drawers [TS]

  screen of all these things and I think that it seems like they're doing smart [TS]

  things with that the other what sort of smart watchmakers haven't done by the [TS]

  way which is when you get sorted notifications coming in [TS]

  rather than eliminate the screen right away they're using their haptic saying [TS]

  that happen to be able to alert you to that so the screen is going to be on [TS]

  probably less than you think it is because we all see these smart watches [TS]

  out there right now that light up when whenever you get something and that's [TS]

  not going to be the case with this yeah I mentioned last week with intent on the [TS]

  show that from what I've heard from a couple people again not firsthand not [TS]

  anybody who has watched but all secondhand from people who talk to [TS]

  people who are testing alleges that an enormous amount of effort has gone into [TS]

  making it so that when you do want to look at the screen it comes right on [TS]

  like the detection of your wrist and you know the the motion detection of one [TS]

  angle the watches at about this you know the person is wants to look at me right [TS]

  now and then when you move it away [TS]

  goes off that they've got you know an enormous amount of work over the last [TS]

  three years has gone into just turning the screen on and off when it wants to [TS]

  be on and off I don't think is interesting it's you know I have no [TS]

  reason to doubt that those are the actual numbers I just feel though that [TS]

  it's like it almost doesn't it isn't really helpful to thinking about how [TS]

  you're going to use the watch it's it's just sort of their enumerate -ing that's [TS]

  right I'm a hundred percent in agreement with that it's sort of its thinking it's [TS]

  it's yes it's it's sort of the spec sheet it's what it will be like if you [TS]

  were just in a in a vacuum if you just said like give me the numbers of what [TS]

  it's going to do when it's like this but I think the key is that the way that [TS]

  it's been engineered the Apple watch will change the way that people at least [TS]

  right now sync that they're going to use it it's not going to be all the time [TS]

  coming on and it's not going to be a hard time you know [TS]

  turning the screen off for you to hit a button to turn the screen on and off and [TS]

  all that good stuff and so will end up lasting a lot longer than people are [TS]

  sort of thinking about just reading that [TS]

  that stat line yeah the polar opposite to me would be the the now defunct iPod [TS]

  Nano or whatever I was called the one that was square and then you get to [TS]

  watch France yet that tick tock tick art [TS]

  upstart I did too which i think at the time was like that broke the record for [TS]

  like it did and it really was well done it was as well done as a turn your iPod [TS]

  Nano into a watch could be done I think but I got it I drop my iPod into it and [TS]

  you know five minutes later took it off and never use it again because the idea [TS]

  of a watch that you had to hit a button to read drove me nuts [TS]

  it would you know cuz you have you know there was no motion detection cos iPod [TS]

  wasn't meant for that so you do you know to see the time or do anything with that [TS]

  you had to use your other hand and hit the button and it was you know and I you [TS]

  know I can see why some people who liked it but for me as somebody who wears a [TS]

  watch and just wants to glance at the time it was maddening [TS]

  Apple watches the opposite that and that sort of the also leads to do when they [TS]

  say it would be going for a while but I don't know when we'll talk again so [TS]

  there's so with that you know you also had if you wanted to listen music which [TS]

  is what you do of course mainly with an iPod you had to have you know your your [TS]

  white earbuds plugged into your wrist and then they would be going up to your [TS]

  ears right and it's like if you're trying to run you could you know rip [TS]

  your butt out of your ears if you were for some reason you moving arms too far [TS]

  something that leads to a question which I have no idea but I don't know if [TS]

  they're going to do this anytime soon or if this weight still sort of the fall [TS]

  over the next year or something that like [TS]

  they have to be doing something with Bluetooth earbuds right i mean there's [TS]

  no way that they can they're they're already saying that you'll be able to [TS]

  store music and and some podcasts and though it'll have limited storage be [TS]

  able to do that and they want you to be running with it and and you can have [TS]

  sort of you know be able to listen to music and they're saying I think they [TS]

  said in the press 0 whatever you can use your Bluetooth running people had [TS]

  special running Bluetooth headset today are using their decency or whatever but [TS]

  that's not gonna be good enough for Apple they're going to want to do their [TS]

  own thing to do that [TS]

  yeah I it's a perfect has to happen eventually [TS]

  idea and again I think having used the iPod Nano with the tick tock watch strap [TS]

  I had the exact same thing I thought well when i when I sent to the [TS]

  Kickstarter I thought I'm probably not gonna like this as a watch because I'm [TS]

  not gonna like a watch that I have to hit a button to see but I might like it [TS]

  as something to use my iPod when I go running and in fact I hated it because [TS]

  it was a clear what you said that having the cable go to my wrist and my arm is [TS]

  moving like while you run it was maddening it it was just felt like like [TS]

  I was like I don't know it felt like the sort of thing that you do you know like [TS]

  like like when you're on probation and they put like a right but I can't help [TS]

  but feel the same thing with them with the apple i mean the watch clearly [TS]

  doesn't even have a headphone jack so it's I i you know it's going to end it [TS]

  does do Bluetooth audio so if the watch does Bluetooth audio and the future is [TS]

  to not have a cable between your headphones in your device period Apple [TS]

  has to do Bluetooth my question though is if Apple goes and does bluetooth [TS]

  headphones of their own they going to be included with devices or near [TS]

  and or if they're not will they do themselves or will it be like beach [TS]

  thing well so remember how they used to have I think they still probably sell [TS]

  them they they had those more high-end version of any ear earbuds I bought them [TS]

  at one point they were like $100 [TS]

  remember that the other ones they're pretty good they were ok they had like [TS]

  three different sort of sizes that did you get the year but gel things that you [TS]

  could start sticking your ears depending on how big your ears are and they were [TS]

  ok though they're definitely better than the old version of the earbuds that came [TS]

  with iPods and everything I don't think there are better than the new version of [TS]

  the ear buds at least I don't use those higher-end versions I'm not even sure if [TS]

  they sell them I think that they still do but I would imagine that's how they [TS]

  do it at first at least they saw him as like as a probably expensive to make it [TS]

  more expensive than the current iteration so maybe they saw him for [TS]

  those $100 and then eventually they sort of move towards that because that is [TS]

  something I always think about you know like what else can they do to improve [TS]

  the iPhones right now and the biggest pain point now it's honestly untangling [TS]

  the damn your buds when they're in my pocket I know that they're like you know [TS]

  everyone I complain about this from time to time on Twitter and everyone comes at [TS]

  me with like you should get these ties are you know this is like third-party [TS]

  products like make it better but like really I just want I don't want to carry [TS]

  around more stuff I just wanna have my your earbuds and I want to have the [TS]

  phone in my pocket and I want the earbuds not to somehow defy the laws of [TS]

  physics and get so tangled up that it seems like you have to cut them almost [TS]

  in order to untangle them and so another thing that really strikes me in the [TS]

  winter too because it's so much more of a pain in the ass when you're wearing a [TS]

  coat and yeah you've got these these things dangling when do you there's no [TS]

  good way to do it like if you wanna listen to podcasts like you know I [TS]

  walked almost everywhere in the city and the run errands and that's when I listen [TS]

  to podcasts and it's great but when it's winter and I have to wear a coat it's [TS]

  like what i do do I put it in my pocket and start listening to put the code over [TS]

  the headphones and then like it pulls but if you put the code on first and [TS]

  string it over the code it does us no good way with the cable as opposed to [TS]

  when you're not wearing a coat you can just put your phone in the pocket and [TS]

  it's not too much of a hindrance to have the headphone cable going from your [TS]

  jeans pocket terriers [TS]

  put a winter coat on it there's no better way to start to do have you have [TS]

  you tried one of the Bluetooth ones before so it's like funny you know I [TS]

  going back into the late nineties when they first came out obviously they sort [TS]

  of got this douchey you know sort of or around them but I use the use the jaw [TS]

  bone era I think it's called the other era quite often now the problem is that [TS]

  it's only obviously one year so it's not great for music you can do it for music [TS]

  but for podcast and stuff it's pretty good it's the only other downside is [TS]

  with one ear its you have to turn it up quite high sometimes like if you're in a [TS]

  in a loud environments be able to hear and I never use it for calling or [TS]

  anything but I don't honestly don't make them any calls so I don't use the [TS]

  speaker part but I use it a lot as just a listen to things it's a little bit [TS]

  wonky the job on software isn't great and so I can take a little while to pair [TS]

  and sometimes drops and it's great not great audio quality would say but it's [TS]

  good for podcast yeah I would probably enjoy that if I had one but I've never [TS]

  tried to yeah you know I haven't tried any of the others but the job on this is [TS]

  pretty solid I kind of wonder what the form factor would be for like an Apple [TS]

  Bluetooth headset like you know what would they be connected somehow and if [TS]

  so what would it be like a thing that goes around the back your head that's an [TS]

  interesting point there I have seen both have seen ones that are like that where [TS]

  they have a saying that goes on the back of your head I think they've also seen [TS]

  one where they stole that something like dangling but it's not connected you know [TS]

  someone to be a battery so it can raise it can't just be the earpieces you know [TS]

  like ideally it would just be too weird pieces they put in and apparently but [TS]

  then you need two batteries and they'd be that one of the reasons why I think [TS]

  the jaw bone one is sort of bigger than it even needs to be is just cause the [TS]

  battery and battery that great either that thing last four it says four hours [TS]

  of talk time I think it's it's usually like two and a half hours maximum last [TS]

  yeah I feel like thats it's gotta happen but i dont have no idea how it's gonna [TS]

  I feel like I had from cables gotta go the way of the dodo and the other thing [TS]

  too that's got to be a motivation for Apple is just staring at my iPhone 6 [TS]

  right now I can't help but look at it and think that the headphone jack has [TS]

  now gating factor on making making it the biggest part it you know the the [TS]

  lightning adapter is so much thinner than the headphone jack and i and [TS]

  whatever whatever whatever the thickest port is on your device is going to be [TS]

  the next one apple gets rid of and right now it's the headphone jack [TS]

  well and and obviously they're starting I think pretty soon as I think they have [TS]

  a few already but they there was some story that they're going to start [TS]

  shipping the Lightning ones right so you'll be able to do audio through the [TS]

  lightning port and so I'd imagine that's how they do it maybe even during next [TS]

  year's something that they just sort of get rid of the headphone jack and and my [TS]

  god I can't wait for people to complain about that that will be you know that's [TS]

  going to be the next getting rid of the optical drive and you know killing a [TS]

  mouse and all these types of things like when they killed at audio that headphone [TS]

  jack it's going to be as it's gonna be a shit storm by and people are going to [TS]

  say it's because they own beats and beats that's right it's an antitrust [TS]

  investigation you know like call it but all the scheme to get you to buy Beats [TS]

  headphones but I would assume that that's what they're going to do it seems [TS]

  like only natural because you can actually drop it you can draw power from [TS]

  that to which is pretty interesting right so you could have a spare of [TS]

  headphones that are connected still but you know like the noise cancelling ones [TS]

  where right now you need like triple A batteries but they'd like the Bose one [TS]

  right that that cancel out the noise but they need triple A batteries put in a [TS]

  min if you could just draw the power from the phone that's interesting but [TS]

  that doesn't believe that actually probably exacerbate the the court issues [TS]

  still yeah probably would have too many other things i was thinkin like this [TS]

  noise cancelling everything in noise cancelling my used I used to have a [TS]

  parent [TS]

  Bose noise cancelling and I do I kinda miss them whenever a monoplane because [TS]

  they really do and I always think of them as something you wear on a plane [TS]

  but they're just so bulky yeah exactly it's such a huge they're so big compared [TS]

  the earbuds and if they drew power that the other thing too is it you know you [TS]

  don't get off the plane and have it from be dead because you were powering ahead [TS]

  and use only one lightning adapter so even if you're on a plane depending on [TS]

  your airline if you have a bit lucky enough to be in a place where you can [TS]

  have a power port charges while you're while you're using their liking to do [TS]

  that funds if you like Bluetooth is the way to go [TS]

  yeah the only way that they would their trade off would be good there is if is [TS]

  if by drawing power from the phone you could significantly reduce the bulk of [TS]

  noise canceling so they didn't need the battery obviously bad or no I don't know [TS]

  what's in Fulton sort of the noise-canceling technology but I cannot [TS]

  help but think that the headphone jack is going the way of the dodo I mean I [TS]

  really I honestly don't know how much thinner they could make the device and [TS]

  still have it I mean a little bit just looking at it but it's real and then [TS]

  they do stereo speakers and do you think you know at the bottom where they only [TS]

  have the one sort of side is is the speaker could they do both would they do [TS]

  both at I feel like I've never gotten a definitive answer it but when I brought [TS]

  it up with people at Apple they've always said that it's a gimmick because [TS]

  it's too close it doesn't make it actually doesn't yeah that's right I [TS]

  heard the same thing is certain it wouldn't matter your exact I think it [TS]

  might matter a little bit of it and I've seen some phone with Android you can [TS]

  find a phone that does anything you know there's some obscure Sony one that has [TS]

  like speaker on the top and the bottom so when you hold the phone in horizontal [TS]

  mode like you would when you're watching the video there's a little bit more [TS]

  separation and I could see it would make a difference but for the most part you [TS]

  know if you have a stereo speakers on the bottom just on one side of the phone [TS]

  its points in fact when you're watching video sideways it's counterproductive [TS]

  because you know what's the point of having left and right when they're both [TS]

  the right because I tell you holding the phone I get its you know so that's what [TS]

  I've heard is that it's just stupid marketing checkpoint that they're not [TS]

  going to go for that was one of the rumored features of the iPod iPad pro [TS]

  right that it might have stereo like it would have speakers on both sides who [TS]

  knows that set up being legitimate at all but I think there was at one point [TS]

  though it only makes sense if they were at the top and bottom not left and right [TS]

  because that's how you watch video and video or when you want it like who cares [TS]

  if you alert sounds come in stereo or what they could do if they do actually [TS]

  do as some sort of keyboard device with iPad iPad pro maybe they could do it [TS]

  just like they do with MacBooks now where they have to speaker sort of built [TS]

  under the keyboard is something that I could see I don't know but I don't think [TS]

  putting them on the actual size of the device makes any sense yeah alright I [TS]

  think that about does it good talking to you we should make it so long this time [TS]