The Talk Show

115: ‘Turd on the Front Porch’, With Guest Ben Thompson


  where to even start been yeah I i I was actually kind of optimistic we could [TS]

  just avoid watch discussion [TS]

  possibly I don't know about that article drop today but it is always like at this [TS]

  point it's like I just want its it I just want to come out and then let's [TS]

  talk about it but but no Apple via wired had to drop a second chart on the front [TS]

  porch so we're recording on Thursday April 2nd shows private gonna come out [TS]

  tomorrow Friday so we're still in this void between three weeks ago was this [TS]

  event three weeks from now is when real people will start getting a lodge we're [TS]

  still a full week away from the watch beam being in stores for people to look [TS]

  at with their own eyes right like right now [TS]

  99.9999% of people who are interested in Applewhite have not seen one in person [TS]

  right by it I mean it's got a lot of nines on that I got only two events [TS]

  right away or wearing them in public areas combined with employees but I'm [TS]

  sure though and even people who grants it on employees with testing unit out in [TS]

  the wild you can do that but I'm sure that if you say hey is an apple watch [TS]

  that they'll say yes but then I'm sure that this Dave Gallagher standard reply [TS]

  thats marlys but I can show it to you and said that when I let let people [TS]

  examine it but it's interesting to me i've been talking about it last few [TS]

  weeks is why in the world would Apple schedule things this way and I think [TS]

  that the article today is part of why I think that they wanted they didn't want [TS]

  the cycle like with a regular revision where it's event next week [TS]

  reviews two days later go by right like this tend a cycle of most of their you [TS]

  know 'cause flagship products [TS]

  new iPhone come out and an event on a Monday or Tuesday then the reviews come [TS]

  out a week later and then I gotta Wednesday I think usually usually to [TS]

  start Wednesday and Fridays are always the day where people who have [TS]

  pre-ordered will get theirs delivered and stores will have them and people can [TS]

  line up to take it you know ten day cycle and a cycle the watch is way off [TS]

  that and I can only guess that it's because they want to fill that space [TS]

  between last months of hand and this month's release with a drumbeat steady [TS]

  drumbeat of stuff promotional stuff you know [TS]

  Good Morning America TV now this and wired so today I went out tell me what's [TS]

  the article are talking about so wired drops article entitled iPhone killer the [TS]

  secret history of the Apple watch and David Pierce wrote an article where he [TS]

  clearly got clearly you know but that'll be our he talk talk to people at Apple [TS]

  he spent a lot of time with with the human race designers days and I L and I [TS]

  and end with any of these pieces in this is how the the the trouble with most of [TS]

  them is you don't know why to what extent what is coming from Apple what's [TS]

  coming from the spin that PR is giving him and then what if one of its coming [TS]

  from from Pierce but the overarching theme of the article is that the the [TS]

  real goal of the watch is to make you not need rifles so much and its focus on [TS]

  their vacations an idea that will free you from your phone I would say I would [TS]

  and I'm gonna suddenly tweak that and say that it's not so much that you don't [TS]

  need your iPhone but that is because it's all coming from the phone at all [TS]

  only works if you're in Bluetooth range of the phone [TS]

  so it's more like a dashboard to your phone [TS]

  well I think it's it's it's more like a typo like wake winch talked about in the [TS]

  article you talk to him and Lynch the idea why do you replace your kids and [TS]

  you can get a notification and you can grab that realize it's not that [TS]

  important keep doing what you're doing you're not actually point out your [TS]

  pocket in filling with it and all that sort of stuff which which is hardly a [TS]

  new theses it's interesting that this seems to be the story that Apple's [TS]

  choosing to tell but I mean frankly I think that all my life I think that they [TS]

  said at the event that the watch will work on your home wi-fi network but I'm [TS]

  not 100% sure on that I think the only but it's only again I can not 100% sure [TS]

  but I'm 99% sure that all that means though is correcting me that is on your [TS]

  your phone and your watch on same wi-fi network right even have bluetooth is out [TS]

  of range right yes I do that yeah that's correct [TS]

  your phone down Mike on the front next to the front door next year bad and you [TS]

  can go around the house your watch will have full star full functionality right [TS]

  and that the idea there and it sounds grade is that you can you know if you [TS]

  need to charge your phone or whatever you can do it and you know go watch TV [TS]

  two floors away from where it's charging and you're not going to be out of touch [TS]

  from notifications are expecting right exactly that's right just as it's not [TS]

  that that's a record it so yeah so I think I think you're probably you're [TS]

  probably right and if you think about the other is you have to think of this [TS]

  not in terms of the normal Apple watch but an apple new product launch and it [TS]

  was the case with particular the iPhone balls the iPad that there was a big [TS]

  break between the introduction and and the actual iPhone there was a second [TS]

  event as well there was exactly exactly which was a good three weeks before [TS]

  before the phone as well [TS]

  so yes I think big picture you're probably right but I think this are [TS]

  frankly I think this article is is a PR disaster I I would not go that far but I [TS]

  don't think it was good yes the killer wine which is already all over Twitter [TS]

  and stuff is is this idea that Apple decide they want to watch they think had [TS]

  to figure out what would it was for which kind of confirms the worst [TS]

  suspicions that people people had about the watch in a in a very very sort of [TS]

  nine not subtle way very blunt blunt our way and and you of course I said you [TS]

  don't know what the balance is between Apple PR and what Apple employees said [TS]

  and and what what Pierce came up with but it sounds man where is that line I [TS]

  can finally be funded it's pretty close to the top [TS]

  maybe I don't have the Apple decided to make a watch and only then set out to [TS]

  discover what it might be good for besides you know displaying the time [TS]

  it's always terrible web pages that has like the pictures in the text on top of [TS]

  it which like their attitudes goodbye drives me up the wall [TS]

  it's you know what I read it on my phone and it was actually really good [TS]

  is much better now looking at it and a desktop browser and its disaster for [TS]

  reading my opinion yes there's there's you by the person that person is it big [TS]

  at the top epidemic watching that such as cover to discover what I might be [TS]

  good for [TS]

  and then there's another whine about giant I've been dreaming about NAPA [TS]

  watch just after CEO Steve Jobs death lunch orders 11 that it is and that is [TS]

  basically like insinuating that I have a whore I began investing in poor Argie [TS]

  studying how r in addition to Saturday Horacio session to session became a [TS]

  product along the way the Apple team when it upon the watch reason to talk [TS]

  came down to this did it and that they get the phone is really your wife which [TS]

  I buy a definite presume is as pure as kind of summary of it but [TS]

  like does america's is on Apple and that's orchestrated this and the promise [TS]

  it's really feeding into all the worse or the most pessimistic kind of [TS]

  conceptions about the watch the line is pierce's it's not a quote here is that [TS]

  this is just pros from peers Apple decided to make a watch and only then [TS]

  set out to discover what it might be good for fantasies besides you know [TS]

  displaying the time which is weird things to put in parentheses because who [TS]

  says that it has to that telling the time has to be a primary function right [TS]

  now like what's funny is the the next sentence actually very much fits my [TS]

  feeling about the watching and I i think i dont know what to do before the court [TS]

  is there was a sense this is a quote there was a sense that technology was [TS]

  going to move on to the bodies as hell and I runs Apple's in human rights group [TS]

  we thought the natural place the place and historical significance was the rest [TS]

  so I mean that's that's my whole thesis for the watches well it's the natural [TS]

  progression of of technology keeps getting smaller and more personal and [TS]

  where do you go from the phone like the the watch just seems the the obvious [TS]

  place to go and I think the history of the culture shows that personal and [TS]

  convenience trumps anything and that's what it actually is the reason to be to [TS]

  be abolished the problem is it was in it says it's a it's a subtle point that [TS]

  requires putting in kind of historical context of technology in the way things [TS]

  way things move and the way things will go over time like what happened and [TS]

  watch as cellular radios for example armed and either Apple didn't do a good [TS]

  job of setting up that framing for pierce or [TS]

  or he ignored it but reached by the fact the matter is actually think that's [TS]

  exactly right by but if it doesn't sound good that's why it's a PR disaster I [TS]

  have to go on the story before we talk about I think there is a lot to talk [TS]

  about here with this feature story but I have to go matter first about the story [TS]

  as opposed to the watch and the team in the decisions you know and get this out [TS]

  of the way I feel like I have to clear the decks is that it's complaining about [TS]

  the way that it is petty and catty but that's how we writers are and there's a [TS]

  part of this where I think holy shit I could have done much better job if they [TS]

  would have given me a full day with Lynch and died and let me talk to them [TS]

  on the record [TS]

  extensively I could have done a much better job and I that's that is that's [TS]

  what I as I'm reading story that's what I thought and I got to the bottom and I [TS]

  thought wow this they picked the wrong guy to give this access to like to me [TS]

  this was very very lightweight article ever get one of those steak house in [TS]

  Philly that has these great when you get the bread before your meal there really [TS]

  big and it looks like we show I can every dead like muffin type bread thing [TS]

  and then you open open open up and there's nothing in the inside right you [TS]

  know it's taxing not a lot of bread it's like some kind of thing that pops up and [TS]

  you know I got more like a pastry than bread that's what this article is that [TS]

  to me is very empty part of it though here's the thing that i think is part of [TS]

  his look at the timing of it came out today it looks like you know it's pretty [TS]

  funny how long it is but it sounds to me like he got this access to two Lynch and [TS]

  died sometime after the event last month but probably couple weeks ago yeah it [TS]

  wasn't it wasn't yesterday [TS]

  hundred-word yes so at least are at least a week ago I mean I think it would [TS]

  be at least a week maybe more but something but anyway I [TS]

  and who knows maybe he did but it certainly doesn't sound and and and [TS]

  Pierce never says here's the thing [TS]

  person ever says that he's had to watch that he himself is you know got access [TS]

  to one and it doesn't read like a review in anyway so I'm guessing he didn't I'm [TS]

  sure that they had you know you know the he got to see demos from the watches [TS]

  that Lynch and died and others were wearing and that they had demo unit [TS]

  similar to the ones that read the event etc but he didn't get he he doesn't have [TS]

  first-hand experience of what it's like to use the watch so how do you rate this [TS]

  story like so on the one hand I think I could have done this better but on the [TS]

  other hand even if they had offered it to me I don't see how I could have [TS]

  accepted it unless they gate let me use the watch for a week [TS]

  first so that i'd have a frame of reference like how do you how do you [TS]

  talk to the two people an end and maybe they're the only two sources is on [TS]

  record but died is the user interface point person for the watch [TS]

  are they safe for all of Apple's human interest group but led the you know the [TS]

  team that did the watch interface and Lynch was in charge of the software team [TS]

  that implement the designs I don't understand how you have the best [TS]

  possible interview with those two unless you are familiar with the product that [TS]

  they're talking about you know I understand why Apple might want an [TS]

  article coming out before you know the pre orders to keep the hype level up but [TS]

  it's to me a waste of time so on the one hand I wish that they'd pick me to write [TS]

  it or ask me to write it but on the other hand is no way I would have [TS]

  accepted unless I had first-hand experience with the watch does it feel [TS]

  like I'm going in blind yeah well that's why and and you're right I'd say appear [TS]

  disasters a little a little strong but it because who knows how much the [TS]

  breakthrough but the this is why I i place that's one of the many reasons why [TS]

  place I I think this article reflects poorly on apples apples communications [TS]

  team and at the reasons is a few things one the reason just articulated rape if [TS]

  white [TS]

  wine maybe the guy at an automotive appears I agree reputation so you know I [TS]

  would he be right he was put in a difficult position by having to write [TS]

  about something that he you're right I agree it seems like he hasn't used to to [TS]

  wait there's there's there's a certain part 2 messaging something and and [TS]

  origin stories and things like that and and it might be true that Apple aside to [TS]

  watch and then figured out but I would also bet that Apple decided to a phone [TS]

  and then figure out what it would do as well yeah there's like what the thing [TS]

  about this thing that when switching onto is if you actually think about it [TS]

  it's not really that controversial like that that's how at all products like [TS]

  this like price like this are developed by the you decide how you know so tell [TS]

  the story the way toward the phone story was we all hated our phones so we wanted [TS]

  to something better right and that that was the one everyone remembers that I [TS]

  remembers you know Steve Jobs saying that at the keynote and that that line [TS]

  like that there's no line like that about about the watch and now the line [TS]

  that is that is especially with this article can occur to become cemented [TS]

  projected on the tech press is that Apple want to make watch yeah I think I [TS]

  am I am in complete agreement you I don't think it's damning and I don't [TS]

  think it's whatever the opposite what's the opposite of damning I don't think [TS]

  it's anything it's nothing because I think I think you're right all products [TS]

  are like that like okay let's try to make a phone and see if it comes out or [TS]

  really like the way Apple did it was but try to make a phone and they made two [TS]

  phones right there was the fidel team working on the iPod iOS version of the [TS]

  phone and there was the borstal bertrand certainly it [TS]

  side trying to do the weekend seriously weaken stripped-down always tend to [TS]

  something that will run on this [TS]

  trust us side and then it was like ok this is the one with the phone is the [TS]

  phone had a reason to exist in that was that it was a phone and what's funny [TS]

  about the line that we're talking about is like everyone pretends like I don't [TS]

  know why it's in print this is your right like the watch does have reason to [TS]

  watch it does the time and now admittedly this is a this is less [TS]

  compelling because everyone needs a phone but over the last several years [TS]

  more and more people to say they don't need watch it's so I appreciate that [TS]

  there is more of a need to to you know to create value outside and etiquette [TS]

  people would never wanna watch to start wearing it start wearing one that said [TS]

  it's not like there were like this is Google glass for example where there was [TS]

  no there was no preexisting kind of thing for it to fit into there is no [TS]

  framing for to fit into it was a it was a completely new the world thing whereas [TS]

  the phone was a phone but more and this is a watch but more and I think this is [TS]

  why Apple in this is this is almost where Apple kind of got it but not quite [TS]

  that's why I like Tim Cook the first things that all the phone it keeps super [TS]

  accurate time which is kinda weird but I think that was the idea was establishing [TS]

  that this is a watch first and foremost that's why it's called up a watchdog [TS]

  called Smart Watch Union all all that sort of stuff and I think you you see [TS]

  that in your there there is like all the imaging about the imaging about like the [TS]

  watch faces and there's been what the mickey mouse thing in the air and and [TS]

  and the sort of thing in like so I think a ball was going for that but there's [TS]

  just there's a lack of clarity I think in in their messaging and and frankly I [TS]

  mean I think Apple the company is doing very well but I think this is a [TS]

  narrative struggle with you know kind of consistently since then Steve Jobs [TS]

  passed away this is if you think about this the one area that he wrote in my [TS]

  car [TS]

  message but he he worked over everything in approved everything when it came to [TS]

  messaging and the fear about micromanaging is what happens in the [TS]

  Metra Metra goes away to the people that are left have the skills and ability to [TS]

  come up with something wrong or they just people who implement it and I [TS]

  haven't seen Super compelling evidence quite frankly last over years of rhythm [TS]

  of the several times that Apple really has their their messaging muscle fully [TS]

  developed hold that thought I want to come back to that exact point that want [TS]

  to go back to my hands in your hands ok cuz I'm really bad at all the thought [TS]

  that's another matter point that I want to make but to go back to I admitted [TS]

  pettiness complaining about the article and professional jealousy I'm also I [TS]

  don't do that all the time I certainly like the team partner profile Jony ive [TS]

  in the new yorker from a few I guess it's a few months ago [TS]

  yeah February 23rd was fantastic absolutely tremendous apiece for the [TS]

  ages that I don't even know that I haven't an eagle about it I guess my [TS]

  only when he quoted me that he didn't quote the better part of the line so I [TS]

  will get to your quotes in this article I'm not yet exactly I'm not above you [TS]

  know i i dont every single time somebody gets you know access to Apple I'm not I [TS]

  don't think wow that should have been me this is in part a story for the new [TS]

  yorker fantastic also I've been endless in my prays for the new becoming Steve [TS]

  Jobs book which i think is fantastic and I recommend everybody and I think it's [TS]

  the perfect but I think it is excellent [TS]

  truly excellent and a great compliment everything that's especially as a [TS]

  compliment to all the other books have been written [TS]

  about jobs and alcohol in you know last few decades so I always complain about [TS]

  people who write about Apple you know so I can constantly saying I could have [TS]

  done a better I could have done better but just think in this case a lot of [TS]

  people couldn't this better [TS]

  yeah but I mean it in the day like I mean I think that the fault for the [TS]

  ideas in book book falls on jobs [TS]

  yeah I know both sides both were mean yes it does but but like you know 11 can [TS]

  suspect that you know widened jobs pick someone that knew him well in new Apple [TS]

  well new technology well and there's a there's a great story in becoming Steve [TS]

  Jobs that pressure under tells of when he was at the wall street journal one [TS]

  and this is again this is before he was before he met jobs the first time in a [TS]

  while he was nervous meeting in the first time in the eighties was that he [TS]

  had a colleague at the wall street journal who got an interview with jobs I [TS]

  think while he was still an apple and he was like jobs is interrupted the [TS]

  interview and said something to the effect of do you understand anything at [TS]

  all about this fucking stuff that we're talking about you understand any of this [TS]

  just called him out on it you know and a guy probably did and I kind of feel like [TS]

  if you know I think jobs public really good judge of whether people understood [TS]

  the stuff that they were talking about I think it was really hard to bullshit [TS]

  that I think he had to know that isaacson just didn't know what the fuck [TS]

  he was talking about with his work which I agree the buck stops with jobs in a [TS]

  letter something here i mean like did this is like I don't think I don't think [TS]

  this article [TS]

  accomplish what Apple wanted it to accomplish and and I i think the buck [TS]

  stops with Apple so let's think back so this idea hey let's make a watch and we [TS]

  don't know what is going to do but lets you set out to do it and you said a lot [TS]

  of people latching onto this as proof that it's the whole thing was doomed [TS]

  in a folly that's it i think thats exactly what they do with everything the [TS]

  key is to go back to that line from a year or two ago that thousand nose for [TS]

  every yes right to a thousand crazy things and the the the the trick isn't [TS]

  in coming up with the brilliant idea from the outset right that's that is [TS]

  that's death if you only if you just sit there and wait at the idea stage until [TS]

  you have a perfect idea and it's all comes together and then go that's death [TS]

  that's the way you make crap products you have to get your hands dirty [TS]

  get the clay and start molding the clay and start making things and try it and [TS]

  look at it and think is this anything and if you think it's something keep [TS]

  going and then even after you've spent a lot of time on it eventually you've got [TS]

  to say it was worth it but no we're not going to do this and then you are you [TS]

  abandoning their pop off the right post like a bunch of like old old stuff that [TS]

  he had today any any posted this amazing Kahnawake wake statue type thing that [TS]

  will like a a concept case for Longhorn it was like these three CDs and a glass [TS]

  case and it was way over done in an hour there but I is funny that you mention [TS]

  that because that was like the classic case of pre-poll [TS]

  pre-planning like micro we gotta do all the stuff going to review the file [TS]

  system we're gonna redo a call like use racial databases like all this crazy [TS]

  stuff and they got so focused on the you like this is the idea now regular make [TS]

  it happen that they spun themselves into the ground and took two years to recover [TS]

  from that and I think you're exactly right like you you you don't start with [TS]

  an idea you start with a ton of ideas and whittle down so it's a three-year [TS]

  project and the the idea of you know the people are latching onto the idea that [TS]

  the mistake was made back on day one when they said let's make a watch [TS]

  figure out what what it could be good for know if if the watch is bad product [TS]

  if it's if this is you know whether or not bad even if it's just not great [TS]

  the problem wasn't on day one the problem was Sunday you know 800 700 [TS]

  somewhere around there maybe even nine hundred when they didn't just say you [TS]

  know what [TS]

  no this isn't good enough it's not at the beginning stages at the know it at [TS]

  that end date it having the discipline of you know what they say killing your [TS]

  babies and even though you've invested two years in this you may have to [TS]

  backtrack here and there is some of that in here there's some of that in this in [TS]

  the wired story where they say that they've had to rebuild some of the [TS]

  software from scratch three times I thought they'd actually had the same [TS]

  interface as the bubble time the a yes I that was one of the things I called out [TS]

  actually called that out here is the quote an early version of the software [TS]

  served you information in the timeline flowing chronologically from top to [TS]

  bottom that idea never made it off campus the ideas that will ship on April [TS]

  24 are focused on streamlining the time it takes a user to figure out whether [TS]

  something is worth paying attention to [TS]

  so yeah it does sound which is again that drove me nuts though that pierced [TS]

  didn't delve more into that into their idea if they told him about that idea I [TS]

  would have loved to hear more about it and see just how much it was like the [TS]

  pebble 2.0 interface that's that's the public to point out is what what is up [TS]

  is old and down is up his old the middle is now and down is the future right and [TS]

  I thin sounds like the criticism is an hour like reading into an article that I [TS]

  was reading into whatever but in ways that that everything the same level [TS]

  priority and and so now you're just going through some that may be important [TS]

  stuff that may not be and indeed situation here it is I think that Apple [TS]

  redid the interface 22 more surface things in the moment in that neither of [TS]

  them go away or have them or or you know have a more immediate and more [TS]

  more reaction you know reactive almond eyes actually an interesting guy don't [TS]

  know him personally but he's he's out and he's I knew of him and he's even [TS]

  know his name probably isn't that well-known is somewhat controversial if [TS]

  you consider the whole you no change in you I direction from Iowa seven in [TS]

  Yosemite to be controversial because he led that work in a working directly [TS]

  under I've and it's the fact that his background is graphic design I was I was [TS]

  thinking the exact same thing and he came into a ball [TS]

  insurers Product Marketing Group and did things like the packaging boxes and [TS]

  stuff like that and then moved to take a leadership role in user interface design [TS]

  and the like I said I would call controversy and people inside Apple I [TS]

  know you know there are people who strongly disagree with the direction I [TS]

  think that that is the criticism of the Iowa 7 aesthetics that looks fantastic [TS]

  but there's a difference between looking good in a screenshot and and actually [TS]

  being something that you interact with it and I think all the criticism is [TS]

  about like the affordances wake how do you know what to do what to press and [TS]

  that's something that I do think is lacking in it is still lacking and even [TS]

  though no question I was there was a look a million times better then then [TS]

  the previous version it is harder to use and you know it's inside the company [TS]

  like eight or wise there's been turned over like where there are and again I [TS]

  don't think it's complete it's not like all of the old human interface team was [TS]

  let go [TS]

  forced out and they're all you know have new jobs elsewhere in a whole new team [TS]

  came in but in some ways it you know you know some of those people are still [TS]

  there and you know it wasn't a complete reshuffling but it was definitely [TS]

  somewhat of a recent phone right now I've heard the same thing you know that [TS]

  end and there's definitely some you know user interface people from the other [TS]

  side the old school people who have left Apple and Google and other places now in [TS]

  in the valley and I is sort of Africa the other name I know there's another [TS]

  person came from product marketing [TS]

  you know and there is some resentment from the people who don't think who [TS]

  don't agree with the direction just as an aside [TS]

  a break and then we'll come back to that point that I told you to keeping your [TS]

  hands all right it was my fingers but a reminder I disregarded alright let's [TS]

  take a break and let's thank first sponsor our good friends at fracture you [TS]

  guys know fracture I talk about him they've been sponsoring the show all [TS]

  your along great great service they print photographs directly on glass you [TS]

  take pictures with your iPhone any camera one you got them they're all on [TS]

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  just buy a frame it put the best ones we've got everything digital now it's [TS]

  great to print your photos it really is your best photos you put them up you get [TS]

  some pictures of your kids family and stuff like that you put it up on the [TS]

  wall and then all of a sudden you look at him and my god everybody's older [TS]

  we've got a picture I just saw it the other day was from my wife's and my [TS]

  wedding and goes along time ago that one of her cousins was just a tiny little [TS]

  girl like pre-school aged and now she's like a senior in high school and I take [TS]

  holy shit look at her what a great reminder pretty photos I can't I can't [TS]

  recommend it enough while fracture is great way to do it [TS]

  you send them your photos they print them directly on glass not a piece of [TS]

  paper stuck to class I don't even know how they do it sometime proprietary [TS]

  secret sauce right on the glass just like I like the way that like I've [TS]

  hunter laminated this the pixels are laminated to the glass it's a fantastic [TS]

  effect really looks great and it lets you mountain in these amazingly minimal [TS]

  ways because there's no reason you don't need to have a border around the frame [TS]

  because there's no piece of paper that secured to the glass to you can get [TS]

  these amazing edge-to-edge just just the glass just the picture just the picture [TS]

  just sitting there really really amazing stuff great prices all sorts of sizes [TS]

  from really small stuff you can put on your desk to [TS]

  really big 12 23 by 23 square I forget how big the big rectangle ones something [TS]

  28 inches 27 it is really really big and he made about that too is it ties into I [TS]

  think Apple's campaign with the iPhone 6 camera the shot with iPhone with just [TS]

  how good i phone pictures look blown up big we know that the iPhone has a good [TS]

  camera but it's like you still think well at the phone cameras he can pull it [TS]

  up real big take actually you can't there's plenty of pictures you can go to [TS]

  you know to 27 inches with photos taken with your iPhone and they look amazing I [TS]

  mean some of the ones in the Apple Store they've got blown up to like six feet [TS]

  and they look great so where do you go to find out more go to fracture [TS]

  and you can sign up as area code I think there's a code but I forget it I'll tell [TS]

  you later but the current go there go to fracture and get some pictures [TS]

  and by the director was the thought that I had to hold your hands [TS]

  the idea is there are apples messaging has hasn't been as crisp as it as it [TS]

  once was and you know why I always hated dip into the you know since Steve Jobs [TS]

  sort of narrative but I think this is the one area where Apple has does does [TS]

  miss him and I think the reason they miss him is is in part because he was so [TS]

  deeply involved in in the messaging [TS]

  approving everything just like you cannot overstate how involved you was [TS]

  like more than than product design and and the problem with that is that the [TS]

  danger of having a micromanager is well the mega-mergers they're resuming his [TS]

  brilliant as jobs obviously was particularly when it came to messaging [TS]

  you'll get great work but once the micro managers gone everyone underneath the [TS]

  micro manager has just been in pure execution rules I just gotta just got a [TS]

  message from headquarters headquarters says the code for fracture its daring [TS]

  fireball all one word on when you use that you save 15% so that's good let [TS]

  them fix it in the car with this will stick in your head because it came amid [TS]

  conversation daring [TS]

  use that code when you buy your fracturing you save 15% price yes and [TS]

  here's the big difference it's another meta angle on this story is in the job [TS]

  there it wasn't just that he controlled the messaging from behind the scenes and [TS]

  it was a strategy of truly severe limited access to any and all Apple [TS]

  employees including Jobs himself up and that's one of the things that really [TS]

  sticks out to me reading becoming steve Jobs was just how much more accessible [TS]

  he was personally right up through coming back to Apple in 1997 that it [TS]

  really was a and even maybe even in those first two years you know the first [TS]

  few years there and Apple he was still a lot more accessible to again not any and [TS]

  all not any you know george and charlie reporter from anybody but with [TS]

  hand-picked reporters from you know big-name publications like the Wall [TS]

  Street Journal and fortune and etc he was pretty accessible and then that that [TS]

  got shut down really and nobody they nobody got to talk to Apple executives [TS]

  and you certainly didn't see this it is clearly a huge strategic change in terms [TS]

  of just how many people they've made accessible to the press in the run-up to [TS]

  the watch huge profile Jony ive in the new yorker which was clearly months in [TS]

  the making I mean maybe the better part of 2014 [TS]

  you know with a series of interviews and trips to California [TS]

  enormous access that was granted in partner and the Financial Times had a [TS]

  you know clearly not as detailed as lengthy as the in Parker but pretty [TS]

  pretty good interview with johnnie I've on the record there is a Tim Cook [TS]

  profile by Adam Lashinsky in voir IRIN I i've because they swear to God by the [TS]

  way my brain works it's like a hashing algorithm and because they both start [TS]

  with F O R and their business publications I always confuse fortune is [TS]

  for its fortune occasion that was last week and I'm I think I'm getting some [TS]

  after the event last year there was a bunch to like he was in the V Bloomberg [TS]

  Businessweek with that you know crazy cover up but it's interesting I've [TS]

  actually i've i've actually going back is not perfect I'm doing I'm searching [TS]

  in Google for the time period up to the the actual watch of the watch or the [TS]

  phone sorry back 2007 and you would think that any sort of article like this [TS]

  sort of wire Oracle be somewhere at the top and I don't i cant find anything [TS]

  like it they can find all the reviews that dropped you know week before I [TS]

  don't recall and I can I think I would have I don't recall ever hearing about [TS]

  like who designed the interface for the iPhone and I don't recall I mean we knew [TS]

  Jony ive and you know in the job 0 the best that you God outside Apple was just [TS]

  public reckoning recognition of who did what johnnie I would I give a speech [TS]

  like once a year like using somewhere in Great Britain in like that that that was [TS]

  that was about it and he was already talking in the videos you know I think I [TS]

  think i've i've was already in either being interviewed I wasn't really not [TS]

  like now he narrates them but then it was like he was doing you know the [TS]

  talking head with the white background [TS]

  you know talking about working on the meticulous design and you know dropping [TS]

  all those excellently impeccably pronounced adjectives you know we always [TS]

  know who chiller is because shoulders on stage [TS]

  but you just never got behind us you know there's never any kind of access [TS]

  like this like talking them to people who designed you know the look and feel [TS]

  of the buttons for Iowa's one and stuff like that right it's all you got was the [TS]

  story that Jobs presented on state Rep we are so I think that there's a couple [TS]

  things are so one it was super tightly controlled which meant means like you [TS]

  you're not getting a story like this that I think that I suspected it came [TS]

  out with a spin that a ball probably probably wouldn't probably wouldn't [TS]

  prefer so that's kind of part one like you you know this is kind of risk of [TS]

  being open but part two is even the people who are talking don't don't have [TS]

  a Christmas in in in in what they're saying end and I know whether the [TS]

  narrative for skeptics in particular is that you know why does exist actually [TS]

  think this is the heart of messaging actually think what they're saying this [TS]

  article is exactly right [TS]

  wake you I i don't believe that [TS]

  advancement in technology and computing happens because like great people force [TS]

  it into be like I think that there is there's kind of in and out like an [TS]

  ongoing march forward progress of technology and the great companies the [TS]

  great visionaries like a Steve Jobs their skill is not in like birthing [TS]

  things per se it it's in seeing where the where the wave is going and catching [TS]

  it and being on the cutting edge of it and and that's why you see again again [TS]

  like there's all these examples of history of like stuff being invented by [TS]

  multiple people at about the same time [TS]

  rate is because like it's is the time for something in I get this is my flight [TS]

  with a very responses to decorate like stated this and I think it's the time in [TS]

  the end [TS]

  exactly what he said the next place is the watched the problem is that the [TS]

  press that that's not how the press write stories the presses in right about [TS]

  like the big picture contextual place in technology for the device that's why I [TS]

  have a job that's what i read [TS]

  but I write to limited audience what press want they want the hero when they [TS]

  want the the the the opening shot story in case and that's why you had steve [TS]

  Jobs the iPhone being like we are here in our phones so we made a better one [TS]

  adapts that you can watch on to that and that's not here and it's it's it's [TS]

  consistently has it been [TS]

  thank you for some of the iPad I i think one of the most interesting things that [TS]

  come out of this garage of the finest you know access and quote from Apple's [TS]

  leaders design leaders I thought one of the most interesting was the I've quoted [TS]

  in the Financial Times article which overall wasn't a great article isn't [TS]

  really you know but this line was great [TS]

  which isn't surprising the more you know I've said exactly what you're saying but [TS]

  it was great to hear from we approach the phone with from this perspective [TS]

  that we all hated the phones that we had and we're approaching the watch as that [TS]

  we love watches we love the traditional world of mechanical watches and we're [TS]

  we're approaching a watch with reverence for what's come before us and that is a [TS]

  totally different approach in its informed everything we did and it's [TS]

  fascinating to hear that right nothing no kind of trash talk at all about the [TS]

  traditional world of of watches yeah it is interesting but then this article [TS]

  doesn't go into that at all it just says you know Jony ive took a deep dive into [TS]

  her ology I think that was even a mistake from what I understand it wasn't [TS]

  just the Jony ive when an ad like I'm gonna go become a huge watch expert [TS]

  everybody who worked on the watch like they brought in for a logical experts [TS]

  and it wasn't just Jony ive who studied up on it it was everybody who was [TS]

  involved like the whole team more or less became world-class experts in in [TS]

  the history and you know everything you want to know to be a serious you know [TS]

  watch expert yeah and I don't think that comes across in the story [TS]

  I do I do think in terms of it being outside Apple's control I can't help but [TS]

  think that Katie cotton some of his you know wherever she is this morning is [TS]

  enjoying your morning cup of tea or coffee or whatever she drinks and is [TS]

  just shaking her head I was under the impression she started out with Scott's [TS]

  first thing but I don't think so now I i know i think i i agree in like there in [TS]

  the AM people got people people obviously especially journalists you [TS]

  know very much disliked that era of alcohol from a PR perspective in [TS]

  disliked begotten by large but the fact the matter is coupled in Apple's message [TS]

  always got across because there's nothing else to write about the only [TS]

  thing they went out was exactly what they wanted to add out and again I like [TS]

  I said wake the it's almost like the problem here the problem this article is [TS]

  in there too honest and and I appreciate that in you appreciate that but honest [TS]

  unfiltered honesty in this is this is maybe we can lead into your both the [TS]

  remark here [TS]

  unfiltered honesty without doesn't it doesn't [TS]

  is not a sound bite you like and it doesn't it doesn't spread in in open to [TS]

  all kinds of interpretations and that's you kind of see that happening any in [TS]

  the hands of someone like you in Parker who who [TS]

  member took seventeen thousand words to do it like what was it about the link [TS]

  that matter to lose all the context that was put around it right when you put [TS]

  context around honesty then it's so fulfilling its like you read that [TS]

  article they eating a steak dinner or something but when you when you have [TS]

  honesty by without deep understanding or contacts it it will open to [TS]

  interpretation which I think happened here in so you had his interpretation on [TS]

  top of it [TS]

  end to you get kind of unintended sound bites and I think that's what happened [TS]

  to the sound bite as Apple to Melbourne for the watch will again I think you [TS]

  look at the big picture a watch is the net natural thing to do next and it does [TS]

  tell time and I honestly think that that's the better way to approach it is [TS]

  okay let's approach it with an empty mind and anything and everything goes as [TS]

  opposed to I'm telling you the worst way to design anything is to have the whole [TS]

  thing in your head and then go make the thing in your head [TS]

  without constant iteration in revisiting and viewing it as it becomes relearn [TS]

  relearn trailer it's it's to me one of the secrets of Apple's success in last [TS]

  geez what we've been up to now twenty twenty years fifteen years what the hell [TS]

  how long has it been well the iPad iPod with a dozen eighteen years since ninety [TS]

  so is is that they don't you know it's not like somebody goes off with a [TS]

  notebook sketches that they and draws it all up and then somebody goes and makes [TS]

  it which is i think a lot of Technology get to me has been made ever since the [TS]

  outset of Technology told me I mean I think people have this idea that Apple [TS]

  as grand vision I mean like one thing that I got a chance to really dig deep [TS]

  into when i when I was at Apple was was working out the Titans game about ten [TS]

  basic and what people forget about this story unraveled you before i buy you [TS]

  remember in 2000 Apple had a big event where they're like you know the you know [TS]

  what made the Mac the first time around it was desktop publishing well we think [TS]

  we know what's next and it's gonna be movies and movie and it was the iMac and [TS]

  we are gonna like you can make home movies and this is what we're gonna be [TS]

  all about and then like nine months later or nine months later someone [TS]

  absurdly short amount of time [TS]

  Steve Jobs on stage and is a completely different vision I could not be more [TS]

  different and that was the digital hubs beat so we think the max gonna be a [TS]

  digital for all these devices yeah and I think he almost admitted that it was a [TS]

  mistake right because it also coincided with [TS]

  with making CD you are drive standard because part of the problem with the [TS]

  prior max was that you couldn't make music discs right don't know if I mean [TS]

  they implicitly admitted it was a problem I C 2012 stand up and say we we [TS]

  we we screw this up but it was his way of doing it could save doing it without [TS]

  saying you know he was I would say one of his greatest gifts was his way of [TS]

  backtracking even publicly and somehow making it not look like an admission of [TS]

  error rate know exactly when you hear this but you have this is what could [TS]

  always praised by jobs how you change his mind all the time like to think that [TS]

  Apple has a master plan and just execute it is is not just on mr Chen Applebees [TS]

  to misunderstand how progress happens I mean again this is my kind of big [TS]

  metathesis like you figure out what's next you don't make what's next and as I [TS]

  and you have to look at what people are doing in the end that area talking about [TS]

  it it was a it was a dividing point between Mac and PC users not just in [TS]

  terms of any kind of political affiliation or tribal affiliation [TS]

  whatever you want to call it but just in terms of what real people were really [TS]

  doing and on the PC side what people were doing was downloading a lot of [TS]

  music from Napster and and then burning CDs you know 10 11 12 13 songs whatever [TS]

  you could fit are you can fit more I guess you could say with mp3 you could [TS]

  if you had an mp3 player that could read them off CD but anyway people were [TS]

  burning CDs with music whether it was to play them as regular CDs or to play them [TS]

  in mp3 players I could read mp3's of CDs people were doing it and Mac users [TS]

  weren't because they didn't see your drugs [TS]

  yeah my favorite actually one of my favorite jobs quotes comes around this [TS]

  time it's extremely hard to find you have to read archive of all try to find [TS]

  it in a bit but basically he says like I thought we missed it I thought I screwed [TS]

  up it was like the most like stark admission of white jobs they like [TS]

  admitting that he thought that he told [TS]

  I blew it is they thought they were too late father to wait to music they made [TS]

  the wrong focus amid the wrong back by folks in movies and and what is amazing [TS]

  is i mean the company internally in that in that year or nine much oil was [TS]

  completely transformed a dime movie guys right top of the heap right within like [TS]

  a matter of weeks like completely organized complete you prioritize like [TS]

  iTunes was gonna be they went out and bought some jam and and turned around [TS]

  and you think about Indianapolis rotational they do so for years and [TS]

  stuff like that I i do believe that they do that today but they delivered iTunes [TS]

  and these new Macs in like nine months and then they hadn't even considered [TS]

  really the iPod yet a month later was when rubenstein went to Japan and visit [TS]

  to see but he was like oh we have this little hard drive we don't know what to [TS]

  do with it I know we could do with that and that was in February in the watch [TS]

  the Avalanche the iPod in September to the iPod was conceived designed all that [TS]

  in in six months and in a dozen one right in 2001 and and like that's that's [TS]

  not likes starting starting with a breakthrough from Toshiba story now that [TS]

  the basic idea there was that standard laptop hard drives were 2.5 inches and [TS]

  Toshiba came up with a 1.8 inch hard drive and none of the PC makers wanted [TS]

  it because it the 2.5 inch size was fine because the key the laptops even the [TS]

  smallest one had at least the minimum size for the laptop with a keyboard and [TS]

  with a reasonable screen that it didn't matter there was nothing to do with this [TS]

  space-saving the space-saving made no difference to the design of laptops and [TS]

  laptops were the only devices these other companies had that needed to [TS]

  martyrs right you had to go to something as radically smaller as like the first [TS]

  iPods to make to say here's where you need something that here's where 2.5 [TS]

  inches to two pick you need it and that nobody else had a device in mind that [TS]

  needed and no it's what is a wonderful example of how your particular [TS]

  technology like and this is why this is this is wide technological means [TS]

  generally even though I like you know you you want people that have a wide [TS]

  range of experiences in in the end we're watching Forrest up maybe that's why the [TS]

  technological background is valued because at the end of the day wake what [TS]

  is possible and what is it is is governed by the technology and that's a [TS]

  big part of like why the iPhone succeeded [TS]

  whereas under the new didn't like the technology just wasn't there was the [TS]

  iPhone the iPhone was on the edge of possible way do the processor was just [TS]

  barely fast nothing to do all kinda tricks to you know to to make it [TS]

  responsive like they did you know the touch screen technology was was just [TS]

  getting cheap enough and and that's like it's it's understanding that [TS]

  intersection having the patience to watch something when it's ready and [TS]

  quite frankly if you want to if you want to criticize the watch for anything in [TS]

  first of all it's just waiting to actually comes out you can use it but to [TS]

  that never stopped but to wake it I think if you look at the arc of personal [TS]

  technology of course the next things in Bea the risk that's my opinion but I [TS]

  think it's pretty clear the question is when is the right time and the right [TS]

  time will be governed by the available technology and end and so the criticism [TS]

  of the watch if it ends observing criticism is not that it shouldn't exist [TS]

  if that shouldn't exist now ordered exists whether yeah and I would say [TS]

  great example of that is the new and you know there was a great product I really [TS]

  really appreciated the OS I I thought it was a great design I think you can [TS]

  quibble about some of the details I think that the way that they made some [TS]

  of the apps blasted you know the way the the bottom of the screen there were [TS]

  certain apps that had a permanent location there and you couldn't change [TS]

  them was questionable but it was also fixable they could go forward in a new [TS]

  way [TS]

  but to me though I have talked to i i talked about this a long time ago but to [TS]

  me the fundamental failure of the Newton was that it came too soon [TS]

  insofar as there was no wireless networking at the time and any device of [TS]

  that basic just form factor needed wireless networking and I know palm had [TS]

  some success with palm pilots in that era before and there wasn't why fired so [TS]

  you learn that working at the time but I think if you look at Palm success with [TS]

  the Palm Pilot and how many they sold it was it was a hit among us right I had 14 [TS]

  years and loved it but there was no way like my parents are gonna get one of my [TS]

  sister my sister would never get one you know normal people weren't gonna get one [TS]

  right and it's because it denied wireless and it caused enough Wireless [TS]

  it couldn't communicate and you know what people do communicate that's the [TS]

  fundamental just of why the internet got popular in the nineties was people [TS]

  communicated with each other until people can communicate with each other [TS]

  they had no interest in in PC's the mass market it was only for us nerds [TS]

  same thing with handheld and you know that would doom the Newton Newton needed [TS]

  anything that that you carry around a helping hand in need wireless networking [TS]

  as it needs to be a communications device now I think that that we do it is [TS]

  it is the perfect example and and this is you know this gets to why why Apple [TS]

  has focused on the communication aspect of the watch and you know the drawing [TS]

  and in the hard yards our stuff i mean obviously again have to wait and see how [TS]

  it actually works out in real life but that's why it's a temple feature because [TS]

  that's that's what matters to normal people [TS]

  talk about the headline for this article I it drives me crazy that's this is the [TS]

  the Wired article [TS]

  the headline is iPhone killer Colin the secret history of the airport none of [TS]

  that is true it is not an iPhone killer right it never lets the worst into me a [TS]

  bad headline is like a bad first impression everything has to recover [TS]

  from that because the first so your article the headline sets such a false [TS]

  impression right it's the watch is useless without literally well not [TS]

  literally I guess there are certain functionality still works outside the [TS]

  range of your phone but it is fundamentally designed to work as it is [TS]

  a companion it is supposed to make your life with your phone [TS]

  better that's the gist of it it's not a killer and maybe someday it will be [TS]

  alright maybe someday there will be certainly seems possible with the march [TS]

  of technology that that within a few years whether that's three years four [TS]

  years five years six years that you know the watch will have its own life I first [TS]

  probably watch could have its own cellular and be the main device and then [TS]

  you would buy something like an iPod Touch just to be your four-inch [TS]

  five-inch screen that connects to the watch it must have wifi because of the [TS]

  Holy works in your house even yeah but it doesn't use but like you can't set up [TS]

  let's say like you never log into your home wi-fi it's that whole wifi back [TS]

  channel thing right you don't you don't type a password in your watch so that [TS]

  when your phone isn't there it's on the internet and getting notification light [TS]

  writing that back channel I forget what the technical term for this but it's [TS]

  that way that wifi can now have a direct I think yes I'm saying that in the [TS]

  future [TS]

  clearly it's a natural progression that the white would have its own wifi [TS]

  and then you could leave the house without your phone and if it knows the [TS]

  Starbucks network it can when you get there it'll get notifications in the [TS]

  email and stuff like that right there and then you can send text messages or I [TS]

  message SMS but you can send messages emails right from your watch without [TS]

  your phone present that's coming in the future shortly unless the product is so [TS]

  unpopular that they stopped making [TS]

  LG just just just watch the watch with LT I mean so it's like it it's in the [TS]

  realm of possibility I think Samsung had clearly as possible I just a question of [TS]

  when it will be ready for an apple caliber product that headline so bad is [TS]

  not an iPhone killer absolutely not and then the secret history the Apple watch [TS]

  boy that is really overstating the access that he got right I mean how much [TS]

  this this is not the secret history of the Apple watch if there's a problem [TS]

  with the article is that it's so incomplete about the creation story of [TS]

  the Apple watch there are very few details about what what passes they went [TS]

  down in backtracked on in the three years that they were working on it ya [TS]

  know if you didn't even the one that was in here those kinda interesting but the [TS]

  timeline wasn't really was only fleshed out now [TS]

  wasn't forced out in any in any degree so you know who his son to me quick baby [TS]

  headline from Wired compared to New Yorker which the headline is the shape [TS]

  of things to come [TS]

  our industrial designer became Apple's greatest product and in their their [TS]

  title tag for the article which is a little different [TS]

  is Jonathan Ive in the future of Apple Valley Fair not click baby it off and [TS]

  the article got tons of attention it got all the attention it deserves [TS]

  well welcome welcome welcome to the reality of today's world wide web but [TS]

  take a break and in the last thing you can do in the article we'll talk about [TS]

  the quote from me another another area where else to look into the rural area [TS]

  like you're grumpy yeah [TS]

  let me tell you about a new sponsor dash dash is really quite a website that lets [TS]

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  for services like Google Analytics get hub Twitter so you can get stuff from [TS]

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  a TV or something like that pertain to see also hook up with ABS figures at [TS]

  figures is really cool company that does app analytics so you can see things like [TS]

  how many reviews your appt got home resales you had yesterday or this week [TS]

  or month today and stuff like that so if you just want to put up a dashboard that [TS]

  crafts things like you know your app sales for the last month or last week or [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  dash in you use a preggers already number one if you don't use that figures [TS]

  you should look into it but then if you use dash you can hook up dad figures and [TS]

  get that graft in a really really cool way and you're not limited to their [TS]

  pre-built widgets API so you can do custom data the API you can use to push [TS]

  real-time data or pull it from sources like Google Drive Dropbox or pretty much [TS]

  anywhere in web of you can build something that can put data into Dropbox [TS]

  which is pretty easy as promises like rain file you can set up a custom dash [TS]

  which it that'll just log in your Dropbox account and pull the data from [TS]

  there the pricing model is fairly simple three accounts get unlimited public [TS]

  dashboards so that people can share live data with the world with the community [TS]

  upgrade to pro [TS]

  you can get unlimited private dashboards and you can get themes and access to the [TS]

  real time push API the real time push it was only for pro scouts 10 bucks a month [TS]

  that's it just 10 bucks a month and you can get approached count really cool so [TS]

  free account you can use it to see how cool it is used to freak out see how [TS]

  cool it is but they're also running a limited time promotion if you sign up [TS]

  for a free account today at their website now their website is the dash [TS]

  dot com the dash dot com your get one private dashboard in addition to your [TS]

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  private dashboards for free with the limited time promotion to see how cold [TS]

  it is no credit card required and they will keep your private dashboard your [TS]

  keep it forever so it's not like during a limited time promotion wanted to over [TS]

  your private dashboard disappears you get to keep it really cool stuff so go [TS]

  check them out at the dash dot com thanks to join read the part of the [TS]

  first paragraph is the first paragraph of David Pearson story that I stepped up [TS]

  475 on the call by the way [TS]

  ok firstly isaacson which at which the half of it was just like rewriting other [TS]

  stuff but are you told fortune and and here I thought I could dope you told [TS]

  fortune I thought we had missed it we had to work hard to catch up speaking [TS]

  about music and and the fact they kind of reject reject everything and this is [TS]

  like this is the I know you share my frustration with this like the whole [TS]

  mythology about Apple creating these new products like Apple doesn't create Apple [TS]

  Bri hasn't created new pricing create a new user interfaces [TS]

  but you know the the match with the idea of a wimp interface was famously you [TS]

  know initially Xerox this new audio mp3 player with a new idea of a smartphone [TS]

  was in new media tablet wasn't really knew I mean and what they do though is [TS]

  they do it really well and part of doing really well as they do at the right time [TS]

  with the right technology and it's just like i dnt goes back to this kind of [TS]

  fundamental like myth-making nature of of the press and I know this is the case [TS]

  in all readers in politics is Jason sports everything is about you more and [TS]

  more with sports or music or spend his more and more writing about kinda like [TS]

  the intricacies of the game and game planning and how we propose that that [TS]

  which I well they dig into but the sports writing that we had for years and [TS]

  you still get a place like ESPN and stuff like that is on the front page is [TS]

  the mythological great man or a great woman you know overcoming adversity 22 [TS]

  to win the day when that's actually that's a story and and it's not how [TS]

  products are made but again like I said it's on Apple to create the myth and [TS]

  it's the myth-making that that is gone [TS]

  join read the first paragraph of this iPhone killer story or at least the I [TS]

  guess the second paragraph 2 there's a paragraph mark know it's a failure rate [TS]

  this terrible way out yeah cabinets are so proud of it are all in early 2013 [TS]

  Kevin which accepted the job offer from Apple will be offered in say what he [TS]

  would be doing it was odd that Apple even offered him a job during his [TS]

  eight-year that Adobe most recently as chief technology officer he was best [TS]

  known as the only person dumb enough to publicly fight Steve Jobs with iPhones [TS]

  lack of support flash videos which of course he wasn't only one but whatever [TS]

  when when she announces move the reaction was immediate [TS]

  they want this guy [TS]

  Apple blogger John Gruber called wince quote a bozo cama a bad hire period [TS]

  unquote Newberry I didn't and I know it's nuance and its harsh but when he [TS]

  was hired this was actually exactly two years ago [TS]

  Tuesday 19th March 2 2013 [TS]

  this is all in the headline I put this in motion [TS]

  exhibit a in the case that newly hired Apple VP of technology Kevin Lynch is a [TS]

  bozo about higher the nuance there is i didnt say he is a bozo a bad hire eyes [TS]

  said there is a case to be made that he is and the case to me was you know not [TS]

  that it was good or that was convincing but you know and I quote from a blog [TS]

  post that he had written at Adobe three years ago talking about Flash Player and [TS]

  and so here's the city's our word from Kevin Lynch's three years before the [TS]

  2010 we are now on the verge of delivering Flash Player 10.1 for [TS]

  smartphones with all but one of the top manufacturers this includes Google's [TS]

  Android RIM's BlackBerry Nokia palm pre and many others across form factors [TS]

  including not only smart phones but also tablets netbooks and internet-connected [TS]

  TVs flash in the browser provides a competitive advantage to these devices [TS]

  because it will enable their customers to browse the whole web so those are [TS]

  lynch's words right that's you know he wrote that or at least put his name on [TS]

  it and I wrote well how'd that work out those companies and platforms are now [TS]

  either at this is Dan this was two years ago AP out of business [TS]

  be on the verge of going out of business or see have abandoned Flash Player [TS]

  entirely [TS]

  include d that the web is identified as it is [TS]

  yea well and the lights right [TS]

  so I stand by it or not you know I but I didn't say he was I said there was a [TS]

  case to be made that he was and I know that I'm asking for nuance that [TS]

  depressed typically doesn't give but to me it's important it's you know clearly [TS]

  we're going to Judge Kevin Lynch on the quality of Apple watch software and you [TS]

  know he might prove himself that you know ok you know he was dealt a bad hand [TS]

  at Adobe any argument would be then that he was the loyal company man and that he [TS]

  knew he knew damn well when he wrote it that it was a bad hand and he was loyal [TS]

  to the company but i just i don't like that I don't like having it quoted that [TS]

  I said it was a bozo because I didn't say that and I wouldn't have because I [TS]

  don't feel like you know me the nuances important I could be there he didn't he [TS]

  knew damn well that it was pilot ship and that he was just being a regular [TS]

  doing doing right by the company as he saw fit I don't know how we as the [TS]

  reading it I have to have to be honest reading it [TS]

  yes you are clearly said it is a case you say he was a bozo I will say that i [TS]

  very much remembered your post about Canon lense and when I saw the quote in [TS]

  the article a a new you'd be annoyed but be I thought it was only fair that I [TS]

  remembered you saying so I wouldn't say unfair but I feel like it misses the new [TS]

  ones and then another line from his hero hero for example the recent Nexus One [TS]

  from Google will rock with a great experience in the browser with Flash [TS]

  Player 10.1 and then I said yeah it rocked so hard [TS]

  Google dropped Flash Player support from Android last year with a link to where [TS]

  Google dropped Flash Player support from and rate now area like there's no I i [TS]

  completely shared your skepticism I mean when I was I was in remain very critical [TS]

  of the of the initial watch unveiling again for the exact same reason because [TS]

  I just felt the messaging was so poor [TS]

  or and I call out the fact that boy the camera lens part really bothered me I [TS]

  was bothering was hired [TS]

  other people are brothers hair did I wake to this post led the way and then I [TS]

  said for me at least is seeming inability to focus our prioritizes offer [TS]

  double confirm any of those misgivings so no I mean there's no question that he [TS]

  he had a ton I will say I thought he I thought he crushed the event like I am I [TS]

  thought his was by far the strongest part of the second watch event I thought [TS]

  he captured the way the watch can resume 11 my my my my case for the watch is [TS]

  always been the United more of a watching watching the app was [TS]

  particularly more of a white whereas technology going view and one I think [TS]

  that's a natural next place into I think what's interesting is is the phone gave [TS]

  us the ability to interact with anyone anything anywhere in the world but what [TS]

  the watch will give us the chance to interact with everything in our physical [TS]

  environment and that's what winced when stem Odin that's more of a longer-range [TS]

  vision because the water this stuff for that isn't in place yet but that's [TS]

  that's what he did and that's why I'm bullish because I think that the watch [TS]

  makes sense [TS]

  a watch make sense one and two apple has deserve the best the dollar paid they've [TS]

  now they're at their 343 right now and if anyone's going tell it like until [TS]

  they prove otherwise I'll presume they will that's at the core that's why I'm [TS]

  bullish and I think alcohol and Lynch in particular demonstrate that at the last [TS]

  event but that's not come across in these articles one thing I heard when I [TS]

  wrote that and I don't know if I don't think I wrote about it I don't know if I [TS]

  i dont member of 5 sell it on the show but after I wrote that this was back [TS]

  when he was first hired one thing I heard from let's say a well-placed 30 in [TS]

  Cupertino [TS]

  who would know somebody have birdie with a position who would know if it were [TS]

  true said to me that in fact Steve Jobs and personally recruited now obviously [TS]

  he was hired he was hired in 2013 13 two years ago steve Jobs was already dead [TS]

  but I what I heard from one source who would know was that jobs tried to [TS]

  recruit him years prior I don't know exactly when probably 2010 2011 2010 [TS]

  thinking about it and he turned him down specifically because he thought it he [TS]

  owed it to Adobe to stick with them and that it would he he he thought it would [TS]

  look little glitch thought it would really make Adobe look bad if he left [TS]

  for Apple in the mid the middle of the flat in the middle of this Flash Player [TS]

  stuff and that he stuck with them out of loyalty with Adobe out of loyalty now I [TS]

  i you know I would if Lynch told me that I would take it as fact I heard it from [TS]

  the second hand store so take it with a grain of salt [TS]

  I don't know if that's true but spend I don't know but I heard that he was with [TS]

  Mike metromedia so presumably sheler that might have been maybe that was the [TS]

  connection I wonder though because she was there so long ago that's true that [TS]

  we were talking mid nineties so I don't know about that [TS]

  here's the thing about the loyalty to me the best thing you can say about lunch [TS]

  is if he believed all that stuff about flash player for being from mobile being [TS]

  a you know a great thing that's going to help everybody but a ball in that Apple [TS]

  should get on it if you really thought and in in what was a 2011 or was it [TS]

  2010 he wrote that in 2010 if you really thought that flash player for mobile was [TS]

  a winner for everybody but a ball in that Apple should get on board and do it [TS]

  to me that the damage because it's was just bad technology and it was really [TS]

  bad for mobile you know [TS]

  you know I'm I am i i agree and you get to the genuine article and talking about [TS]

  the idea that you know you're not being honest if you're not like being critical [TS]

  at the same time before I went to Microsoft in with a first unveiled [TS]

  windows 8 at AllThingsD this is be twenty I think 2011 I dot was awful I [TS]

  trashed it I put us on Twitter at which I then which unfortunately is no longer [TS]

  there because my classes like dude you know you're going to work very selective [TS]

  hearing that already gotten people already got in trouble with my Twitter [TS]

  account previously do that do they have actually its story now is that Apple was [TS]

  a school thing but then I went out I went to Mexican I worked on on Windows 8 [TS]

  and and will think when you're working on your recruiting and I was in charge [TS]

  of or not injured I was one of the people on the team getting developers to [TS]

  build for Windows 8 and you're kind of selling it right and you you have to end [TS]

  there's a certain sense of like I can I i maybe I should just quit her only [TS]

  believe in it but if you're like that you're fresh out of school like this is [TS]

  a big opportunity actually someone the teams are organizers doing a jobs a [TS]

  little above me ton responsibility had a ton a ton of impact and there's there's [TS]

  a kind of subconscious thing like well maybe I have my doubts but I'm gonna [TS]

  come up with those in a cover for now and I'm going to work my ass off and do [TS]

  the best I can do with which I did and I told close friends like I told about my [TS]

  misgivings it like the issues with it by boy as far as it impacts my dating life [TS]

  my professional life like I was giving it my all and sure enough when it came [TS]

  out like all my initial misgivings ended up being totally spot on but I i cant [TS]

  awhile back that both humbled for search and a little ashamed but also [TS]

  appreciative [TS]

  for how you can lose sight of what what is true and end-user someone like [TS]

  johnnie I berard week seven wins in his position you have the luxury of you can [TS]

  step off but I do use some things in in history where people can like just go [TS]

  down the wrong path in man I join you in judging him but I also empathize and can [TS]

  sympathize because I I feel bad about it I feel bad that i sat down at the same [TS]

  time I can appreciate why that happened to me right cuz it and who knows what he [TS]

  was saying inside I mean that's you know what he said publicly [TS]

  I would not want to put my name on something public that to go that all in [TS]

  on if I was the CTO of Adobe in 2010 there's no way I would have put my name [TS]

  on that publicly even matter how loyal I wanted to be the company and I realize [TS]

  that as you know the CT 0 of Adobe he couldn't say anything bad about it at [TS]

  the time publicly and that Adobe as a whole was going to market it and try to [TS]

  do it but he had to know was a bad technology and I really bad fit for [TS]

  mobile devices and processors in terms of performance and just where you know [TS]

  where everything was going I mean I took so much flak at the time from certain [TS]

  people with my adamant my absolute adamant that you know that flash was [TS]

  terrible for mobile I've always a pleasure is terrible for desktop but it [TS]

  was you know horrible and that the best thing that ever happened to the web [TS]

  the open web was Apple's refusal to put flash on these devices and it [TS]

  single-handedly in my opinion got video out of the proprietary and terribly [TS]

  performing flash player and into you know just you know HTML 5 compatible [TS]

  with 264 in etcetera [TS]

  thats can be played more efficiently and openly and doesn't require any sort of [TS]

  locked into one particular plug-in architecture is my actually stumbled [TS]

  across his personal website via Wikipedia and it has these kind of you [TS]

  know it's in paragraph form but kind of what he's done and there is no mention [TS]

  of the word flash surprisingly does like dobie as its leader dobie help to find [TS]

  related Creative Cloud [TS]

  Adobe marketing cloud no no flash I did earlier this is Kevin Lynch from his [TS]

  website I will put this in the show if I wrote it down on paper [TS]

  get in earlier I was a Mac software developer helped develop the first Mac [TS]

  release of FrameMaker and then led their core technology team frame technology [TS]

  was also acquired by this helped establish one of the first Mac software [TS]

  startups in 1984 frame by frame maker no great great software really great [TS]

  software and and the fact that it again dodi sort of I guess it's gone now I [TS]

  guess it's dead I don't think I've ever made the transition Oosten I think it [TS]

  was I don't think there was ever a native OS 10 version of it and it was [TS]

  strategically subsumed by in design and InDesign [TS]

  with FrameMaker we see I used it bare bones where we had it was super focused [TS]

  rate yeah if it wasn't quite as designer is I would like and I had I used to live [TS]

  breathing QuarkXPress and so I mean yeah that's as i knew i used i would i would [TS]

  get frustrated by some of the ways that frame wasn't as design court I could [TS]

  make a thing [TS]

  print out with the exact as I know wanted down to I'm gonna say hundreds of [TS]

  thousands of I mean and it was spot-on accurate and it was just you know it [TS]

  would come out of the printer exactly everything positioned exactly where I [TS]

  wanted in FrameMaker didn't let you position things quite as precisely is as [TS]

  quiet but the thing that frame had was this book making features where you [TS]

  could select from making here's the canonical [TS]

  example is to make an index for the book is you could select text and say I wanna [TS]

  make an index entry right here and you got precise control over what the entry [TS]

  in the index would be called we're pointed to an end as you edit the [TS]

  document and moved things around it just worked right it you just did not have to [TS]

  worry about your index connections breaking or working it was brilliant and [TS]

  it really really and it's a tricky tricky problem this all really I mean [TS]

  they doing a good index rose book is infamously dick difficult and expensive [TS]

  to get somebody do it and you know at the time [TS]

  BBEdit manual was there I mean it was like 300 pages and had a great index and [TS]

  it was so easy FrameMaker made it so easy to keep that index up to date as [TS]

  you went and you know added new features are so great great great apps at a [TS]

  feather in his cap while we are we are we all have a very upset when I was over [TS]

  when I get out and watch now an hour and a half in so I do it's funny that you [TS]

  brought it up tho cuz that's exactly where I was going with the whole [TS]

  with the with his role with flash and mobile is on one side he really believed [TS]

  that it was you know could be a could be the future of mobile which would [TS]

  indicate that he's about it I don't believe that I think that I have my [TS]

  guess is that he knew exactly what the score was and he was being loyal to [TS]

  Adobe that those like you said in and of itself is maybe not loyalty is a general [TS]

  thing is great but maybe in that case it's like I was going to go there with [TS]

  the Johnny I love story about Steve Jobs saying you know don't just say good [TS]

  things about you gotta be honest if you're not being honest you're doing a [TS]

  disservice to the people you're talking to and that it was a disservice [TS]

  you know to Adobe 22 let them keep pushing forward because it's so it's so [TS]

  rare though I mean it's it's [TS]

  well actually in bed big companies and adobe is doing pretty good their last [TS]

  quarter results were pretty good and I'm happy to see that I think I think the [TS]

  industry is better with a healthy strong successful Adobe as an independent [TS]

  company I completely agree and I the way they've in the way they've transition [TS]

  their products to being to the to being a service basically has been really [TS]

  impressive no III I completely agree actually just they just released a new [TS]

  app a couple hours ago you are going to see yet Adobe slate of Israel story [TS]

  storytelling out for the iPad where you can be used photos and text to create [TS]

  wake [TS]

  greater story in it it's it's iffy also like Adobe as in the bus possible way [TS]

  right it's like wedding you waste a felt create something that looks really [TS]

  really great to create like your own product in a sense they could all be wet [TS]

  you create what you create a great products in the best possible sense and [TS]

  when they're at their best and what's what's fascinating about this is a wake [TS]

  who is arguably if you think about it who is who if anyone is pushing the [TS]

  envelope in the iPad right now [TS]

  way there aren't many and when to be fascinating if kinda like the the the [TS]

  two companies that are you we are producing some of the most highly paid [TS]

  after an hour ago via Microsoft [TS]

  a replay alright yeah it is a reply to the Mac right because let's just say [TS]

  that [TS]

  8484 was the original Mac was severely limited machine 85 86 87 or so is when I [TS]

  would say the Mac really kind of got up off the ground in terms of the [TS]

  performance of the year up to this 60 80 20 yet but it was getting close to [TS]

  another 60 twenties in the 6800 thirties eventually but their end and with other [TS]

  form factors were you can get bigger displays and stuff like that [TS]

  and more ran and then famously you know the desktop publishing industry which is [TS]

  built on the Mac that didn't come from Apple AAPL never had a desktop [TS]

  publishing house I mean Apple came out with the laser writer would certainly [TS]

  help but you know it was software from Adobe and quirky and who did paid me [TS]

  about us that really made that an industry and again Microsoft it was [TS]

  absolutely excel Excel started on the Mac right or at least microsoft word was [TS]

  huge Mac App you know lots of great software from Microsoft for the app for [TS]

  them for the Mac in the eighties and absolutely help make the mac and [TS]

  obviously never got entrenched as a widespread you know business computer [TS]

  but it in places they did of mags it was Microsoft's offer that made it possible [TS]

  and I i i i know i kind of feel like you know Apple you know to some extent they [TS]

  do the way that I feel they've admitted the App Store and limit the ability to [TS]

  build sustainable apps in my estimation you know without not having the [TS]

  electrolyte heavy things like easy upgrades I i I kind of feel like that [TS]

  one there's the whole you know commodity cheaper apps is good for the platform [TS]

  within within a certain women arm but I think they they remembered you know [TS]

  being in a position where it got to the point where the Microsoft and Adobe apps [TS]

  were more important than the Mac right and like Steve Jobs said he liked [TS]

  prostrating himself ready jet that out [TS]

  no way no way of knowing that it's it's really more of an existing the present [TS]

  occupant you know almost like literally with this massive message of Bill Gates [TS]

  of Dawn is green you don't Microsoft riding into the rescue and then Adobe [TS]

  why would they want to August 10 Adobe won't even come over right like they [TS]

  refuse them [TS]

  customers aren't really there and you know I would never want to be hostage to [TS]

  out makers again and and it turns out though because no one's really been able [TS]

  to build especially the productivity space a meaningful business on the iPad [TS]

  in particular it turns out it's the same guys they're they're in its Microsoft [TS]

  and Adobe in exile just find it fascinating impel awake be the history [TS]

  of this relationship [TS]

  yeah they were definitely I i think that with again I don't got a huge digression [TS]

  circa 1997 industry politics but it is interesting now I do think so that you [TS]

  know dobie and Microsoft at least especially combined held far more sway [TS]

  over Apple's future than Apple itself did you know maybe they could have [TS]

  gotten by with one hand on board and not the other [TS]

  either way but not both and you know in the end it it certainly you know [TS]

  exemplified with the original rhapsody interaction with the first in the first [TS]

  plan that was announced post next reunification which was a very it was [TS]

  much it was more or less the next step operating system without carbon it was [TS]

  your gonna have to rewrite coco nino they called it could have been more or [TS]

  less you know it was more or less we're gonna you know we're gonna do it put a [TS]

  news Apple's style UI on the next step operating system right and there's no [TS]

  carbon no carbon and that went over like a lead balloon and more last microsoft [TS]

  said we're not doing that it would be a rewrite and everybody knows you know [TS]

  going from this existing code bases on the Mac to pure next step would have [TS]

  been a complete rewrite its a new platform and they were going nowhere [TS]