The Talk Show

129: ‘90 Minutes or Bust’, With Guest Ben Thompson


  ninety-minute or bust that we have the title already my room people is to [TS]

  complain the show was over an hour and he just gave up on it I got better [TS]

  actually because someone was someone recommended iPod guess on Twitter also [TS]

  appreciated and which I will add we're record has been broken bits them [TS]

  recording with you and I haven't required export all summer we're going [TS]

  to record the next episode later to Twitter today so I'm back to testing but [TS]

  like oh yeah but the problem is you all those podcast is gone forever the news [TS]

  and good editing I spend hours every week editors are five guests to give it [TS]

  to an hour [TS]

  don't let me in with her I was very close said well I know what they mean [TS]

  and I you know it would be a very different show though you know it's it's [TS]

  have you heard of this the slack slack variety pack now its new yes lack [TS]

  variety pack if he does Google slack for a tea bag you'll find it so it's a [TS]

  podcast that slack is sponsoring its not the people who are making it or not [TS]

  slack employees but they don't even get names or credit and this is all you know [TS]

  this is as as by design but it's so you know it's sort of like the way that like [TS]

  I think by the milton berle show like the texaco star hours something like [TS]

  that [TS]

  texaco something you know so it's just a hard cast with the name the slack [TS]

  variety pack and there's very very minimal slack [TS]

  promotion in it but it's a cute little 20 minute episode is a series of three [TS]

  or four minute very edited like npr style segments NPR for nerds and it's [TS]

  really good I did an interview with them for an episode that's coming up probably [TS]

  not need me like a month into their like a month ahead or something like that but [TS]

  I listened to a few episodes before agreed to do it I was blown away like [TS]

  npr very added tightly which is great and I love it and I've subscribed to the [TS]

  site for a pack and in theory I could do show that is similarly edited I mean you [TS]

  know but I don't think it's because like this ends up being and you put it as [TS]

  like the director's commentary for doing fireball which you know is is very [TS]

  tightly written and edited so it kinda makes sense that that it's it's the [TS]

  opposite and yeah I think both several I mean I mean the talk show is great when [TS]

  you're like cleaning house or something and it's i mean now you know we're [TS]

  driving driving or walking on you know doing errands now it's exactly to me [TS]

  though that those two forms are very traditional in radio where the MBR has [TS]

  been in PR has done these tightly edited segments and for those who outside the [TS]

  state NPR's national public radio and it's very III would say I think its [TS]

  outstanding quality and very well-regarded and you know like shows [TS]

  like all things considered [TS]

  and what was the show that was what I read last show This American Life is [TS]

  organized via that are famous for you know the the quality of the writing and [TS]

  broadcasting but also like they're tightly edited and then the other side [TS]

  there do not talk radio has been a thing as long as there's been radio and that's [TS]

  more like with my podcasts like and most of the podcasts in Iraq and I like it is [TS]

  it is funny that I think we we have any discussion every time I'm on because [TS]

  you have you message me ninety minutes are busted I think I just replied with [TS]

  the straight lol trust him with a little off my game would be the LA do i'm just [TS]

  still get out at 6:53 a.m. here and I've been awake for like six hours would be [TS]

  the emoji the poop probably like the the emoji with like the one eye open in the [TS]

  tongue sticking out you've had a busy summer you've been you were travelling [TS]

  in the states and now you're back on the other side of the Atlantic the pond what [TS]

  we call it Pacific is the big pond out and it's a lot bigger than the Atlantic [TS]

  I'm sure that's exactly what I know if in fact I've done it I I know what it [TS]

  feels like when you're flying over the site of a particular reform this time [TS]

  because yes I i was just me and my two kids might my wife every summer comes [TS]

  back up early would only done two summers but that's like her for a few [TS]

  weeks around but I realized that I haven't done the wake of my parents are [TS]

  in the midwest so go from Chicago to Taipei there's no direct flights you [TS]

  have to connect and prior to that we were in Seattle and then last year we [TS]

  did an overnight stay in in in Seoul Korea on the way back I had done the [TS]

  like the one trip all the way in a while and I forgot how brutal was gonna make [TS]

  it worse [TS]

  our flight going up move forward an hour and a half and are fighting back at the [TS]

  way into being 26 hours door-to-door over two hours of the airport's cargo so [TS]

  yeah it was it was it was rough kids are awesome I mean they're they're pretty [TS]

  experienced at this point but man it was it was hard [TS]

  o'hare had been there yet my parents my parents in this weird spot like they're [TS]

  just outside Madison but true to the south of Madison where there are enough [TS]

  from the Madison Airport close to hear it doesn't make sense to five from [TS]

  madison that you have to be to drive two hours ago hair which just adds a whole [TS]

  stinking top of the entire endeavor i was thinkin Midway which is [TS]

  all midway doesn't make any sense for interview no international yeah I think [TS]

  that I hate southwest by thing most of its because in Chicago's only midway [TS]

  yeah which is unlike the south side of chicago and it is just awful to get you [TS]

  so i i i turn off that it's good for me I've liked it over the years because if [TS]

  it's good if you just want to go to downtown Chicago right that's fine and [TS]

  and Southwest has tons of flights every day between Fillion and that way so you [TS]

  have tons of options and then you get off and walk right over to whatever the [TS]

  CTA and you get a card you know put 20 bucks on it and it's like the endpoint [TS]

  for the i think is the orange line you don't have to pay attention you just get [TS]

  on an orange train in downtown actually pretty good but for anything else to go [TS]

  to O'Hare air travel [TS]

  it sounds so cliché but like I used to swear off you know i i phone died been [TS]

  doing this for thirteen years now and I saw verifying USA North Pacific but I've [TS]

  jump fullback in with United basically because they have all their all their [TS]

  crossed the plains and I have wifi and power their seats which is it's [TS]

  unbelievable what I mean yeah I know the whole life I think has been done because [TS]

  they accept satellite wi-fi which works way better than the colo crap and its [TS]

  role and it's it's it's stunningly cheaper 60 to $70 and manage it does [TS]

  transforms the transforms the whole flight that's my god this is going we're [TS]

  easily on pace for a ninety-minute show since we can I just say I had two worst [TS]

  gogo experience ever [TS]

  a few weeks ago I'm trying to remember if it was coming home from WWDC there [TS]

  would be months ago but it was sometime this summer [TS]

  might have been coming home from the PC and amy was out with me were comin fine [TS]

  arm on us' airlines / American doll wanting their late in this weird one [TS]

  Bowden 141 [TS]

  state right now we get I i've i've a Philly Philly is a huge USAir hub has [TS]

  been forever so I mean that's where I'm at the time and i was just booked my go [TS]

  go when I get on the plane that's always done and so I've heard that you supposed [TS]

  to book a day in advance or whatever and I just never get on the plane and i'm [TS]

  looking at the go-go options and there are no options to get the service for [TS]

  more than an hour other than and the hourly rate was onerous it was really [TS]

  expensive other than signing up for a monthly subscription and get in and you [TS]

  can unsubscribe yeah when you get a monthly subscription to go go there is [TS]

  no way to cancel it you have to call the email them and its 50 bucks they're [TS]

  they're terrible they're they're terrible company I mean if it seems [TS]

  criminal but I did have a flight later that month and I knew I was flying at [TS]

  the imposed if you had to be WBC knew it was June and I knew I was flying again [TS]

  at the end of June and I thought you know it actually would work out almost [TS]

  you know they have 50 bucks isn't that bad so I did it felt so bad but I was [TS]

  watching it was so fun so bad but I was watching this woman one row up across [TS]

  the aisle from me on her tablet was actually it was interesting for a with [TS]

  that thing was a Kindle tablet not an iPad and very unusual for me to see [TS]

  people using tablets on you know regular consumer day people using consumers are [TS]

  I bet and all she was doing this over and over and over again trying to get on [TS]

  the wifi and get the you know just let me pay for wifi for this way and she's [TS]

  looking at the options and she's like I could say in choosing reading all the [TS]

  fine print and thinking I could see what she was thinking you know that there [TS]

  must be some little fine printing like click here to do is get a pass for this [TS]

  flight and she confided she spent like 25 minutes what's bad is I mean [TS]

  obviously have a monopoly in captive audience on certain stuff no real [TS]

  incentive to write decent service [TS]

  but the the thing that's kind of nasties I use them a lot when I have trouble [TS]

  with Microsoft and so I like a monthly account rewrite that as I experienced [TS]

  the council thing but they now if you sign up they opt you into storing your [TS]

  credit card with them and you know option to opt out right and so they will [TS]

  keep her no matter what and then so i i i body in that I walked in and [TS]

  immediately remove my credit card and you say four days later gun return [TS]

  flight in a credit card so they're doing without without give you an option they [TS]

  actually failed or lied to actually move I told them to ya there there are an [TS]

  awful company and other satellite based stuff is so much better I think they're [TS]

  watching self-service but yeah I did I i mean there that I the only thing that's [TS]

  good about the monthly plan is assumed to give you if you do agree that is $15 [TS]

  a month thing you can then have your laptop on and get your if you're a [TS]

  little way under seat or something and then you get a phone you can get on your [TS]

  iPhone and then you go back to your iPad its toll on as opposed to their every [TS]

  time you log on with a second device you're logged out of the previous device [TS]

  interesting that's nice yeah for sure it will work we we're we're not gonna have [TS]

  to any minute things best best thing happens in August last customer service [TS]

  experience I've ever had was a Southwest flight out of Midway was one of the sea [TS]

  for conferences so it's probably 2007 or 2008 and in Philadelphia subway lines [TS]

  are colored and like the blue line runs east west orange line runs north-south [TS]

  and there aren't they are in multiple colors on the same track and I knew from [TS]

  previous years that to get out to Midway you knew which hotel you go to the [TS]

  station go up the steps [TS]

  and take an orange train on right and I'll be going the right direction I was [TS]

  I remembered it and so is me and another guy who was at the conference actually [TS]

  and I see I guess I wasn't I raced up the stairs in there is a train already [TS]

  there was a jump into the train I recognize the face from this conference [TS]

  also attended didn't know I think he knew I was so i sat down we just started [TS]

  talking and you know made quick friends in a great way to pass the time and then [TS]

  obviously taking longer than we like we look out the window and it does not look [TS]

  anything like what I remember the trip to Midway and it ends up that in chicago [TS]

  they have multiple colored trains that take the same this right now she may be [TS]

  a was my father might have been that we are going up the steps together and I [TS]

  told him quick about it if you're out of the loop yet they're all the same track [TS]

  I don't remember this fellow's name but if you're out there listening to the [TS]

  show [TS]

  remember this I'm very sorry well it turns out we were way out in North [TS]

  Chicago and was not a good neighborhood and we asked got off to a cut off and I [TS]

  asked at CTM hey what's is there any way we can get a cab and they were like get [TS]

  back on the train were you joking like you there are no cabs out here this is [TS]

  no caps so that's really in as a few serious that's like the best way nearly [TS]

  as the best way for you to get the Midway would be to get back on the same [TS]

  trainer just on going the other way all the way back to home to where you were [TS]

  and wait for the train he should have done so and doing it I picked up my cell [TS]

  phone and call southwest and I'm thinking I [TS]

  am screwed I you know and you know during fireball was just barely off the [TS]

  ground like you know rebooking for hundreds of dollars more was gonna be [TS]

  seriously like meant it was not prepared for a call southwest and tell him and [TS]

  and the woman says hi guys have another flight leaving seventy minutes after the [TS]

  one you were on about that one and i was a year how much is going to cost you [TS]

  nothing really same price so don't know about that will make you that will make [TS]

  you a happy customer for a very long time I was like that's going to be about [TS]

  an hour late so that is absolutely perfect she was ok thanks for flying [TS]

  Southwest like 30 minutes and I went from having an absolutely horrible day [TS]

  to having I actually felt better than if I just made my fight that's the thing [TS]

  that is the thing about customer service that that there's two things I think [TS]

  both customer service knows about like just buying stuff that makes such a [TS]

  difference i mean a good service experience can actually make something [TS]

  better than it was originally given a broken product isn't like that I had to [TS]

  do the united to the [TS]

  also replaced I think we we talked about this at wherever the tactic Angeles [TS]

  failing but yeah I mean it is still it's still not the you walk in and give you a [TS]

  new on the spot they now have to mail them in with the watches but still it [TS]

  took two days and they called me up and taking me when you watch and like the [TS]

  fact I don't have to like them about it or like you know it's it's just it it [TS]

  makes a big difference for sure but that the Commission the hijackers ok here I [TS]

  was the big thing about if you were up in the air was now you could call her [TS]

  much more easily and they're they're much better at service you know serving [TS]

  underserved areas then in caps have ever been [TS]

  yes I do I wonder about that yet what will be in general but I do hope at some [TS]

  point we get to the [TS]

  this is a long stint segue two white cars and ride sharing and all this and I [TS]

  am I would love to get your thoughts about the [TS]

  the seemingly all but confirmed Apple car because I am still a little baffled [TS]

  about the whole thing but we don't need you now but I die I I would love to [TS]

  yeah well why don't you take a moment here as we as we rocket towards a [TS]

  ninety-minute take a moment here and thank over sponsor and then we can do [TS]

  that we just talked about car stuff that popped up in the last month or so I [TS]

  don't have talked about it and I know you haven't because you've been on the [TS]

  air but anything moment and thank our first sponsor it's our good friends at [TS]

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  and blades for a fraction of the price of the big-name razor blade brands [TS]

  carried or started by two guys who wanted a better product without paying [TS]

  an arm and a leg [TS]

  story I remember hearing was that one of the founders was like traveling or [TS]

  something for God is razor went into the drugstore drugstore annex to the hotel [TS]

  he was staying at and couldn't even get it because the blades and everything [TS]

  we're locked behind those plexiglas cabinets with a padlock have to find an [TS]

  employee of the store and get them to come over and unlock padlock and then [TS]

  you get to actually buy the stuff that's why can't I just buy this stuff and [TS]

  that's where he got the idea that you know this is perfect in the salon really [TS]

  really serious company though they make their own razor blades they bought an [TS]

  old blade factory in Germany they were buying the blade from them and they like [TS]

  the blades they are getting so much they just bought the factory must be nice if [TS]

  you can do that these are high quality high performing German played crafted by [TS]

  shaving experts giving you a better shave their respects your face and [TS]

  wallet they offer a factory direct pricing that's how they that's how they [TS]

  sell these these quality blades so much cheaper as they make them in their [TS]

  factory in a package them up and then they just shipping right to you and [TS]

  there's no middleman no distributors retailers nothing like that [TS]

  that's how they cut the price in half and it really is about half the price [TS]

  their starter set is an amazing deal fifteen bucks gets you a razor [TS]

  moisturizing shave cream or gel your preference and three razor blades I got [TS]

  my starter kit years ago when ever did if you've been listening to show for a [TS]

  long time you know how long he's been a sponsor they sent me one of these years [TS]

  ago when I first got started and I looked at it recently it looks brand new [TS]

  it looks absolutely mint condition it really does hold up and I just you know [TS]

  keep it on a shelf in the shower that's not even a baby or anything like that [TS]

  really high quality stuff [TS]

  replacement blade are two bucks each or less you get a pack for 15 bucks 16 pack [TS]

  for just $25 really really great stuff and really nice packaging great heavy [TS]

  field to the blade everything is just really nice my dad out of the blue one [TS]

  prompted by me I guess he liked load my website or something that's not the sort [TS]

  of person who buys stuff like this online he told me he he he saw that they [TS]

  were sponsored thing I swear to God I didn't tell go by this he went did it on [TS]

  his own he was like me and this is really nice so there's a testimony my [TS]

  dad Bob Gruber tells you that Harry's razor blades and shaving cream are [TS]

  really nice also my dad to senate aureus cheapskate does not listen to the show [TS]

  hope it doesn't but he did he's he's pretty tight-fisted part was a great [TS]

  deal in fact I don't think he would have done it if not so there you go there's a [TS]

  testimony from my dad go check them out like I said go to Harry's dot com and [TS]

  use the promo code talk show no know that I don't know what I said at the [TS]

  beginning of the read but at the end here just remember talk show [TS]

  know that and you will save five bucks off your first purchase so that $15 [TS]

  starter kit is just 10 bucks my thanks to you I saw how did you end up with a [TS]

  Mac way back in the day if you're if your father was a [TS]

  notorious cheapskate oh that's great that's a great question [TS]

  well first part is and I've told this before when I was growing up I did not [TS]

  own a computer and because my parents would not buy me one and a lot of my [TS]

  friends are having trouble getting their parents to buy them a computer that [TS]

  works well too expensive in the eighties and the line was my friends got was I'm [TS]

  not gonna spend all that money you're not going to use it and my parents [TS]

  explanation to me was not gonna buy you a computer because if we do you're never [TS]

  gonna leave the house [TS]

  true and I resented it deeply as I wanted nothing in the world more than [TS]

  computer but I have to say that there was you know there's some merit to the [TS]

  argument and in some ways knew me better than perhaps you know I know myself and [TS]

  I you know I don't know I certainly read a lot more books and novels as a [TS]

  teenager that it would have the phone to computer that's interesting because like [TS]

  i i i tended to kinda like resent my parents for a similar reason like they I [TS]

  didn't really have access to computer or was never a push in that direction even [TS]

  though like you don't have one right well if I had been into that before I [TS]

  went to school like what you know what track Libya now I be you know a a [TS]

  program where would I start my own company or whatever biloba and obviously [TS]

  in in the ended up working out pretty well to end up having much more of a [TS]

  kind of literary background lot of reading or writing at the same paper [TS]

  thing as well but since you you gotta put it like say that word resentment as [TS]

  I thought about as well it's like but actually probably turned out for the [TS]

  best and then and I scored I did have a good pretty good computer science [TS]

  teacher in high school we had a little lab mostly Apple I guess by the time I [TS]

  got a couple two DS's and think there is one mcintosh and i'd idid appreciated [TS]

  the Macintosh greatly I really did I enjoyed my time on it but I chose to [TS]

  spend most of my time on the to de-escalate row is most familiar and [TS]

  that and for writing the programming assignment I had its most familiar with [TS]

  the tools but then I went to college in 1991 at Drexel you had to have access to [TS]

  a macintosh now demean you had to buy one there was a lab but I mean [TS]

  effectively those highly recommended that all incoming freshmen by one in the [TS]

  student discount at the time were tremendous I think it was close to 50% [TS]

  off might have been like 40 percent off nice so I gotta gotta mcintosh when I [TS]

  was a freshman in college and it was a big reason one of the reasons I wanted [TS]

  to go to track so I knew that if I got a computer as a freshman I certainly [TS]

  wanted it to be a macintosh interesting it's funny i've been might my parents [TS]

  tend to be behind the frugal side as well we should say we say no it's funny [TS]

  I i would i would not normally think of you as being frugal oh I'm not know if [TS]

  it will work what we i think had a similar reaction to that now my sister [TS]

  is my sisters to buy this there is a way she's incredible body yeah you know you [TS]

  know knows where everything is actually balances the checkbook etcetera etcetera [TS]

  which store has certain items that are cheaper than the other store where I am [TS]

  so grateful for my I don't want to switch all my all my credit card usage [TS]

  to american express just because they actually their Apple pay implementation [TS]

  actually shows every single charge [TS]

  wears like I have also like other cars they only show the charging your phone [TS]

  when you charged with refusing a page but american express every single charge [TS]

  with the card will show on your phone as a notification yes which i think is [TS]

  great because I had to learn [TS]

  I don't wanna be bothered to like go through my statement every month charges [TS]

  like the fact that it pops up everytime is fantastic that only Americans press [TS]

  does it I totally love that now is that yes I know exactly when I was working [TS]

  with this so that only works though with with Apple pay even know it like you [TS]

  said it you have to have an apple pay device and that means for the couple of [TS]

  weeks over the last year I've switched back to my iPhone 5s for testing like [TS]

  when I first started testing I was nine I didn't want to put it on my six so I [TS]

  put it on 5s and I swear not the size of the screen it the biggest thing they [TS]

  missed was getting those amex notifications iono CBS today where I [TS]

  thought my heart skipped wait a minute is busted I'm not getting through it [TS]

  doesn't go through the AMEX apical is through Apple pay what they call the [TS]

  wallet now be used to be called passbook was widened in is it not [TS]

  which by the way I never got no I haven't put it I haven't installed hours [TS]

  9 yet I never install a really smart but I'm so used to I was nine that I'm [TS]

  talking about is the presentation it but I passbook has gotten even if they did [TS]

  so much better than it used to be [TS]

  I've been pretty impressive new design house 96 the removing flights or hotel [TS]

  stays that you've already done in the past [TS]

  don't think so that's like the one killer blow the whole like them [TS]

  automatically yeah good they stay in there you have to dismiss each [TS]

  individually which if you're traveling with your family like for you have four [TS]

  tickets on your passbook have to go through and dismissed each one [TS]

  individually which is really annoying but that said that the way the way it [TS]

  like these location in time data like Palin thing they're instantly available [TS]

  although I've been very impressed and happy with it [TS]

  yeah I really really mister when I went back to me that's how I got started with [TS]

  the Mac 1991 even I knew it from the eighties you know having used to spend [TS]

  some time on it already you iced I started out with when I went to school I [TS]

  built my own PC and actually start a little business underside putting pieces [TS]

  together for like Michael Dell prodigy or something but as I put together my [TS]

  own PC and upgraded with different parts and all that that was that I did that [TS]

  all the way through school and then I don't get a Mac I got a Mac when I came [TS]

  to Taiwan in 2003 I think that a laptop that I bombed a flake was broke and Mike [TS]

  if i fix it can I habit and they did fix in the back and I had in years [TS]

  ex-girlfriend I don't think it was about that but yes around that time actually [TS]

  it was when the the first like flat screen iMac came out not that not the [TS]

  not the one of the Armed the one where like the screen was the computer is all [TS]

  white and I just thought that was just awesome and I used a Mac a bit in in in [TS]

  school but I'm mainly the newspaper to do help but but not not much but I [TS]

  thought that you were so cool and i like it so much that I ended up buying the [TS]

  book I don't know what happened in the transition to find that but I was I [TS]

  don't have any way that all I think this project the matter of that was that come [TS]

  in the door [TS]

  thousand Tiger around tyre I think after that [TS]

  and and yeah you use a Mac pretty much since then I was the head of like the [TS]

  Mac lab at Kellogg like helping people like actually being a business or you [TS]

  know they provided they had Windows PCs but use a Mac a little more difficult [TS]

  and sell kind of Blevins mine when I kellogg to go work at Microsoft because [TS]

  I was kinda known as the Apple guy but by a woman is good and Windows Windows I [TS]

  think this is really interesting actually windows isn't that isn't a bad [TS]

  as things I like about it better than the map in the wind imagining stuff i [TS]

  think is really is actually pretty great and actually I've installed up utilities [TS]

  on the Mac 22 replicates called better snapped or other on the keyboard it's [TS]

  pretty great as a free for endorsement the problem with Windows in this is kind [TS]

  of counter-intuitive was the absurd situation application situation like the [TS]

  third party apps just all socked obviously the Microsoft apps were good [TS]

  in much better on Windows in there in there in the Mac but things like I'm me [TS]

  focus or more like a Twitter app like just all this like basic stuff the map [TS]

  was even back in back then was cool but was so much better than then the window [TS]

  situation where everything at best you could find something third party would [TS]

  be super ugly you know just look like crap and then have like the [TS]

  modernization would be weird that so actually the biggest problem I had with [TS]

  using windows not windows it was not having a fab switches which at the time [TS]

  I told some people that they like toys Ono that's the big advantage has but [TS]

  even by then for a consumer sort of I was a bit but for personal app usage the [TS]

  situations was pretty dire even then it obviously it's only gotten worse since [TS]

  then I've ever used the number of these you 200 and I haven't I don't use it I [TS]

  don't but if I were to use them [TS]

  Windows management utility it's probably put some things in here just another [TS]

  utility you know i kind of I don't I don't use any third-party utilities for [TS]

  that anymore but I do kind of agree that managing a bunch open windows on 10 with [TS]

  the stock stuff it's kinda hard when she used to use this napping stuff it's it's [TS]

  it's pretty awesome I get told them I haven't used used windows like think I [TS]

  used if like a few weeks contracting job in 2000 I don't know which is which is [TS]

  only available to the time you know when I went right back to do they start they [TS]

  still have the C Drive RAID like if you buy if you buy like a brand new like [TS]

  Windows machine is to have a seat driver ID they do I think it might be West [TS]

  exposed like I think you know your default view in the Explorer is is more [TS]

  like your documents and pictures and stuff like that but that said there's [TS]

  aspects of Windows 8 Windows Explorer out like the actual file management that [TS]

  that are better than the Mac like the way you can have me maybe it's more [TS]

  power stuff we can actually do the tree like the left and like the apps on the [TS]

  right or you can like cut and paste like just and I think it's one of those [TS]

  things where it where if you're always used to them finder you would think it [TS]

  odd but if you've used it the other way and I definitely never finish in ninety [TS]

  minutes if we get started on finder because I'm still not just I'm still not [TS]

  used to the OS 10 [TS]

  if you're used to the real finder from the classic Mac OS then it's all it's [TS]

  all just thats reaction I think in general it is Mac OS users and people [TS]

  who like the old finder and special finder without it seems to meet tend to [TS]

  be more mouse centric in their users of the computer it would get a fair [TS]

  characterization I don't think so I think for some people that is true but [TS]

  like I wasn't and once you learned some of the keyboard shortcuts for the old [TS]

  finder it was it was great you you know just command up would go up a level [TS]

  command in the list view which is why everybody and everybody smartest you [TS]

  could command left and right to close open close levels of hierarchy and [TS]

  option command left great to do the whole you know subfolders to any [TS]

  ahead and you could type ahead to select you still a lot of these things to work [TS]

  but in the old fighter it never scrooge over and you could do stuff like you [TS]

  still can but likes to start taping the first few letters of something and it [TS]

  selects the first thing that matches the first few letters without entering any [TS]

  kind of command rating you just type it and I learned to use the keyboard very [TS]

  very quickly and it was always very fast and never felt like I had to wait for [TS]

  anything but that's it that's all say their children to users we have you as [TS]

  my my perspective it is is distorted by having him talk about the find the [TS]

  special finder kind of it's kind of a multi-decade campaign at this point I [TS]

  think well and we didn't talk or chrome books either doing like what else would [TS]

  you remembered were you using Windows Phone Windows 95 came out this week was [TS]

  the 25th anniversary of windows ninety-five no i didnt i dont have a [TS]

  computer in high school so when I got a computer or when I built my computer I [TS]

  think that Windows 98 either just come out it was about to come out so [TS]

  I think I think I started with Windows 98 arm I'd use windows ninety-five but [TS]

  no I wasn't part of the whole lineup in do it I I was feeling like I was [TS]

  following the news at by that point I think I'd subscribe subscribe to some [TS]

  concern computer magazines are so high school I would also like fundraising [TS]

  drive storage or just in retrospect just got ridiculous but as I was I was [TS]

  described to a few of them so I definitely followed it from afar but no [TS]

  I was not a part of it but I do enjoy your your your YouTube thinking in [TS]

  response to it it was something I thought was I still thought it was [TS]

  garbage is just better looking garbage it did it did it did actually managed [TS]

  memory competent well you know but the Mac at least I don't know that I'd favor [TS]

  user interface design over at lower level you know Mac OS had problems and [TS]

  it was showing its age but I would say 1995 it wasn't quite in the area I would [TS]

  say at that point there were still advantages to be had by having an [TS]

  operating system that was so low to the ground then there are the memory wasn't [TS]

  mean it like that right what I think it's it speaks to how good the user fees [TS]

  was that I mean I mean what Apple died but the fact that they didn't die speaks [TS]

  to how good it was because the reality is on almost every conceivable metric or [TS]

  feature angle I mean the Mac was pretty hopelessly behind and performance [TS]

  yeah that was really I think that by 96 97 it was the fact that the operating [TS]

  system was so crafty under the hood [TS]

  memory was all shared was definitely a problem that they knew and as why did [TS]

  you know that it came to a head that way but next but the machines of the time [TS]

  were not unusable they weren't bad I mean you know you could make them bad [TS]

  though that was the one of the things that people got like it if you used to [TS]

  stock Mac does the thing that people don't remember if you used to stock Mac [TS]

  and you did not install third-party extensions you would have a stable [TS]

  pretty stable experience the thing that really kind of did that and were web [TS]

  browsers it was even the good ones at the time had a tendency to really lock [TS]

  up your machine but the people who complain and say like I had a Mac in [TS]

  1994 and crashed all the time they installed all of these system extensions [TS]

  they're all running in the same memory spaces everything else it was more or [TS]

  less like people were making their own operating system but it's a long story [TS]

  yeah we're doing everything we can to do not meet you mentioned before let's talk [TS]

  about the topic engine I i think that among the top problems with alcohol [TS]

  wipes now lo these many months in I think the tactic engine is one of the [TS]

  top problems and probably the only a hardware problem while no I guess I have [TS]

  a second hardware problem I have a list of three top Apple watch problems and [TS]

  one of them is the tactic engine which I don't think is good enough yeah i i with [TS]

  interesting and i think that arguably the killer feature of the watch that [TS]

  that was what I miss the most when I was in how the watch for three days was back [TS]

  to buzzing in my pocket like that was really annoying and so yeah I think the [TS]

  fact that it's a hardware problem is magnified by the fact that it's so I [TS]

  think central to the value that the device does does provide arms which to [TS]

  me is all about is the notifications in some applications arm I have said for a [TS]

  long time and maintained that it was a mistake to wash his hybrid apps like you [TS]

  know I think they disproven user experience but the tactic engine is [TS]

  great except for the fact that [TS]

  at a standstill miles it seems to be failing for a lot of people yeah I think [TS]

  that it you think that's true there's a lot of them in stainless steel that was [TS]

  what my my review you know about that's what I mean based on responses I posted [TS]

  my feeling I got quite a few responses in seem to be all stainless steel models [TS]

  that were having problems and if you remember i think is a standstill miles [TS]

  over the most delayed to getting out the door [TS]

  remember there is the story about like one supplier of tapping engines you know [TS]

  they had bad ones so I seems to have been there seems to be some sort of [TS]

  common thread here involving stainless steel models in the template engine and [TS]

  there being a problem I think I think that there's too many people who had [TS]

  them fail maybe not so much that it really hurts the platform but it's it's [TS]

  obviously a problem and I think even in 12 don't fail it's not good enough and I [TS]

  could be wrong as it was one afternoon eleven months ago almost 11 months ago [TS]

  now when I first got to see that the prototype pre-production Apple watches [TS]

  that they had at the event last year you know six months before they actually [TS]

  ship but what I recall from the ones I got to put on my wrist there that tactic [TS]

  sensation was better and it wasn't it was just it was just more satisfying it [TS]

  felt more like a tap whereas this and more like something that you couldn't [TS]

  miss like they the ones that they had a year ago just seemed to me like they had [TS]

  hit the sweet spot between your not gonna miss this but this isn't going to [TS]

  start all paranoid [TS]

  was just it was very humane is the best way that I could put it in the way that [TS]

  if I would if I were standing behind you and you were talking to somebody [TS]

  needed to get your attention I could tap you on the shoulder in an appropriate [TS]

  way depending on the urgency of the matter is this seriously an emergency I [TS]

  could you know I would have you more aggressively if it was just i I do hate [TS]

  interrupt but i just want to let you know I have something for you I would [TS]

  tabula certainly and show you could interpret that watches I remember from [TS]

  September just sort of had that I really thought this this is a huge aspect of [TS]

  that then where's the watch I we're now I just I do miss tops I don't think I am [TS]

  afraid I know that it's not defective white with the defective tactic engine [TS]

  it just isn't that great and I feel like it needed to be where it needs to be [TS]

  like it's one of those things that the next generation they're gonna figure [TS]

  something out to do it better [TS]

  yeah I think the it's interesting I think my new watch actually I feel it's [TS]

  not as good as my original I first got it again it's hard to measure your going [TS]

  based on memory yeah but the way it failed was it went from think it tapped [TS]

  to fill a vibration like so it was getting loose or something and so in the [TS]

  end that had less of a sense of the tapping on your wrist as opposed to [TS]

  being a very distinct out and I do think my new one well it's tighter than the [TS]

  one that was failing it still feels more by Brady then like a tap that that I [TS]

  recall recalls my web watch first gotta reviews from the event also but yeah i i [TS]

  think that yeah it's interesting I I was curious if the smart ones are different [TS]

  for the sport ones are different but if it's my favorite feature so hopefully [TS]

  they do clean it up [TS]

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  the house on confusion out of the process of registering it covers gay [TS]

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  register domain don't use however you are not hooked up right if you've ever [TS]

  registered a domain anywhere else you know that companies make it really [TS]

  unpleasant not only did they make it hard to buy what you want but if you [TS]

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  boy that's really where they make it hard it is exactly the same sort of [TS]

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  you want to switch to FiOS or something like that and and they were given the [TS]

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  that's exactly what it's like moving domains from some of these domain name [TS]

  registrars well guess what it doesn't have to be that hard when you go to [TS]

  hover because however has an amazing service that they call Valley transfer [TS]

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  just give the customer service reps at Harbor Yard what they need the [TS]

  information in the Premier old registrar and let them go and then next thing you [TS]

  know all of your old domains are all in your head count one place with all your [TS]

  domains with this same great interface and service really really great when you [TS]

  do buy new domains they don't do any of this heavy-handed stuff no upsells no [TS]

  charging you for stuff that shouldn't be there are they the cheapest no they are [TS]

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  business into the ground is this race to the bottom in pricing and then that's [TS]

  where they turn to all these up cells and hidden charges [TS]

  covered prices are great though they're really competitive and includes [TS]

  everything you'd need or want you know who is privacy everybody should have [TS]

  whois privacy there's no way that any registration be charging for this who [TS]

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  that's associated with the domain name registration well that's just built them [TS]

  so they have great customer support a great interface great prices great [TS]

  service and a great track record they've been around forever they have great [TS]

  history they've even got online tutorials and email support if you don't [TS]

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  follow their instructions to do whatever it is they want so here's what you do [TS]

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  names over 200 dot com [TS]

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  thr E S T A R P O D CA esti love these guys you can tell they listen to the [TS]

  show with the domain names that they are not demean coupon code [TS]

  bad three-star podcast a calm and wonder if that's taken maybe I should look into [TS]

  it [TS]

  my thanks to her and if you needed to me go check it out what are you what are [TS]

  your other two problems well actually I'm gonna renumber them and I'm gonna [TS]

  say that topic what engine disappointing number that number two number one is [TS]

  that absurd slow and whereby apps I mean anything that goes between the phone in [TS]

  that watch likes it not just third-party third party stuff is is really just [TS]

  embarrassing as unusable and some days it's just seems worse and the end but [TS]

  even the built-in stuff it can be can be sometimes it's like it just works in [TS]

  like this in the future and other times it's like I hit the little whether you [TS]

  know the temperatures thing on my face to open a weather app just spins and [TS]

  spins and spins in and weather is too slow [TS]

  yeah and I've got a good connection you know i mean home in wifi you know [TS]

  everything should work just fine and something somewhere it doesn't work so [TS]

  i've to to comment on that one for what I agree about whether being way too slow [TS]

  and it's frustrating to the other is really irritating is whether doesn't [TS]

  update based on your location [TS]

  you have to open up the watch apt in your phone and change the default city [TS]

  which to me is like such a Miss Mary I'm sure it'll be fixed but it's like I'm a [TS]

  travel alot so I this relatively regularly what is great watches I made a [TS]

  travel case basically where I live in Chicago I had the Chicago time I had [TS]

  Tokyo time we were switching planes night at a time we're going and I also [TS]

  had the chronograph to measure and the timer to measure how long until like [TS]

  we're supposed to land it was awesome [TS]

  like I usually will fly with the little computer you know the flight path in [TS]

  front of me just mainly to see that all the time but the watch is actually way [TS]

  better to me we see the time when I wanted but the fact by so it's it's it's [TS]

  almost a great travel thing I did was update when when you get their third on [TS]

  an essay is this is one that does not affect me but it absolutely affects me [TS]

  my wife workout killed the battery [TS]

  yeah she you know when she attended one of the Reno and I clearly it's heavily [TS]

  advertised as a reason to buy the watches as you know workout measuring [TS]

  his companion and it just you know she goes to the gym and she comes back she [TS]

  could leave with the hundred percent charge and comes back and watch is under [TS]

  50% and then not without enough to get to the end of the day so I don't have it [TS]

  you know the exact type of workout she's doing and i know if i dont I think the [TS]

  fact that her sis 3842 factor in that but that's a real like one day of of [TS]

  battery life [TS]

  it does seem like that you know seems crazy compared to what watches were like [TS]

  before [TS]

  Applewhite free after charging damn watch every night and that can be a [TS]

  problem but it's it when it works it seems like that's all I can handle this [TS]

  is ok but if you can't get through the day it's a deal breaker and doing a [TS]

  workout and having a not get through the days is a real prize a real problem I [TS]

  think now well within my last name is sort of a sub item of the apps are slow [TS]

  think it might be related to why sometimes I think that there's a [TS]

  sometimes there's a finicky connection between watching phone and I feel like [TS]

  it has to be ideally especially for the prices they're charging it really ought [TS]

  to be a hundred percent thing like when you connect a keyboard 23 USB it always [TS]

  works right like if it doesn't you know that you just got a bad keyboard right [TS]

  use your Bluetooth [TS]

  USB and and and and I think it's blue I think bluetooth is the reason that that [TS]

  this what you know but that's that's not my problem right [TS]

  you know if you spent $1000 on an Apple watch the fact that bluetooth is very [TS]

  difficult to program and has all sorts you know whatever not your problem it [TS]

  should it should be at work as reliably as USB plug let me guess you you where [TS]

  you're watching your weapon system put your phone in your pocket I do that I'm [TS]

  sure that's why does the human body is a big big second water and you know what [TS]

  that my wife has a more problems than me with this including recently and she [TS]

  does she seldom carries her phone in a pocket usually you know in a purser or [TS]

  something like that she doesn't usually keep it in the pocket and its and [TS]

  sometimes take it just says they're right next to each other and not often [TS]

  not often but like it was just a week or two ago but her phone and a watch she [TS]

  isn't running any beta software on anything she's not running OS papers but [TS]

  her her watch was showing the I can't see the phone icon the red the red [TS]

  cherry red right next to each other and getting them to see each other again [TS]

  it's the best thing we could figure out to do was to reset her watch and then [TS]

  restore it [TS]

  repair it restore from the backup that she had on the phone it just seems like [TS]

  something you should never have to do [TS]

  44 yeah and it was weird it was like you know that the magic repairing like where [TS]

  you point your camera at the at the pool animated QR code equivalent but that [TS]

  they made look not ugly [TS]

  that wasn't working for like force and even I know that that's because I was [TS]

  there with her when she paired it originally and it was you know in any [TS]

  kind of lighting really good midday lighting with lots of sunshine just [TS]

  wasn't work I had I can get a parent when I was at the Apple Store new one [TS]

  I for some reason the genius of doing it and i just think that it's got to and I [TS]

  think Apple problem I think that they're aware of this cuz i think thats how high [TS]

  their aspirations are but all these little fiddly little problems are fine [TS]

  for something like the pebble that's aimed at a certain sort of people who [TS]

  publicly advertises to and when you charge the sort of prices that advert [TS]

  you know charges people do you know this sort of finicky trying to get one piece [TS]

  of technology to talk to another is just what we're used to and that's acceptable [TS]

  I think that Apple has raised the bar with so many other things in their [TS]

  ecosystem and with the pricing that they charged and the sort of you know [TS]

  consumer accessible luxury message that they're putting forth that's it's just [TS]

  not acceptable it's interesting wrinkle I will say the beyond the applet again I [TS]

  think I i feel like the fact that it shipped these hybrid apps was very [TS]

  concerning to me as well as well as a whole [TS]

  like hoop someone she said no to that that that aside the single like the the [TS]

  the biggest issue I have with the watch and i've still worn everyday and I [TS]

  missed it was gone by is I do I'm not like oh some watch connoisseurs only [TS]

  have one Swiss watch that I got for my wedding for my in-laws but I i misss [TS]

  wearing it like I miss going into like I'm going to a nice story and I can be [TS]

  dressed you know jeans and a shirt but you know you've you're wearing like that [TS]

  nice lots like it it's there's a certain sense in feeling that comes from from [TS]

  that and I don't get that from the apparatus stainless steel with this team [TS]

  is still bad you know it's you know relatively high model but it definitely [TS]

  well I absolutely think that it works a lot better than [TS]

  the impeachment watches agree disagree it still feels pretty geeky and not not [TS]

  like a luxury item even if it's the qualities nice the workmanship is nice I [TS]

  miss not having that luxury item and i know im wearing it anyway I'ma geek in [TS]

  part because like I said that I find the notifications and the net or IM or find [TS]

  that not buzzing in my pocket really nice but I get what they're going for [TS]

  that I use for me I'm not sure that they delivered on that specific point you [TS]

  just traveling how do you how do you find traveling with the airport now it's [TS]

  great like I said I find it I think it's great because the multiple large faces [TS]

  you can set like i said i buy a custom watch these just for just for the trip [TS]

  which was super super valuable and because I'm lazy I don't have 0 battery [TS]

  life issues even the flying that trip you don't know if no problem as far as [TS]

  battery life goes it is surely if you don't do a workout it is get out I find [TS]

  that it's half great for traveling and half terrible for traveling and I'm not [TS]

  sure interesting so like I i do think that the directions are pretty grade I [TS]

  never use that because we just had to drive somewhere and we don't have liked [TS]

  it dashboard GBS type thing I find getting the directions on my wrist while [TS]

  driving the car to be just terrific absolutely terrific and i know im [TS]

  thinking about it you know that it's going to take me when I gotta turn [TS]

  coming up and I can glance and see it really really liked it for that I like [TS]

  it for little things like as convenient as it is if a boarding pass on the watch [TS]

  in a way like you said with passbook that it just comes up like knows you're [TS]

  at the airport and just comes out good how many especially your traveling with [TS]

  kids [TS]

  times your arms are full or you just don't feel like digging through it's [TS]

  it's pretty cool for stuff like that i remember i Amtrak train one time and I [TS]

  have my boarding pass [TS]

  watch and it's just so great cause you're an Amtrak you are you sit down [TS]

  and you wait and they come around and get your tickets and so instead of [TS]

  having to sit there with her ticket our fish in your pocket or something they [TS]

  just had already right there really great thing I don't like about traveling [TS]

  with the Apple what is a really don't like having to set up another charter in [TS]

  a hotel [TS]

  it really didn't really was it was like I just give up on a farm I'll watch [TS]

  every time to just forget it I'll put it back on when I go home because it's just [TS]

  got to be too much rain we just had too many you know three phones and three [TS]

  Apple watches was just too much especially if you are staying in a hotel [TS]

  room that doesn't have many outlets are ya [TS]

  most hotels even you know when I get is probably a factor of eight but you know [TS]

  even that at two major hotels its heart the one we're at Disney add additional [TS]

  problem where it was sort of a lot of the sockets they were loose and so like [TS]

  sometimes you don't have a charger and then it wouldn't but inside the three so [TS]

  we did have a tangle of these white cables and it took you just look for a [TS]

  lightning or what happened to be the one day as I had attached it to the thing [TS]

  and I went to bed in the morning and it was dead [TS]

  sort of thing and it wasn't plugged in then it was rain it was just an [TS]

  unplugged in charger and I was like you know what that would put this away where [TS]

  ya no that's definitely that's definitely a good point I think it's [TS]

  kind of a one that when those ones that will never go away it does it gives me [TS]

  his the outside the anxiety a get is then when I don't wear and we're at the [TS]

  theme park and I walk 10 miles [TS]

  get any points to beat the game vacations working against you yes [TS]

  absolutely yeah it's funny the the whole like I haven't turned in those [TS]

  notifications off the the i would tell you the our notification to stand up is [TS]

  really irritating when you're on a plane by Esteban haven't turned off out of [TS]

  some misguided notion that this is gonna you know the area would be bad for my [TS]

  health to turn it off even though I never listened to it but I think I've [TS]

  talked about this on the show before I think that and again I say this knowing [TS]

  that famous last words is trying to tell some engineer what seems like it should [TS]

  be easy to my guess it should be easy but it seems to me like it should be [TS]

  possible for the watch to make a very educated guess that you are on an [TS]

  airplane is it in knows when you're at an airport and its good point right and [TS]

  especially if it knows that it has a passbook or called in I was nine wallet [TS]

  and tree for a flight and it knows what time the flight is and if they can [TS]

  somehow I guess it doesn't happen all altimeter right but there ought to be [TS]

  some it just seems to me like there ought to be some kind of way that it can [TS]

  figure out that you're probably on a plane and maybe it could even ask you [TS]

  may be the key to even say are you going to be on a plane [TS]

  when are you getting on this flight and then not ask you for that I have to [TS]

  admit that that is I find that to be terribly annoying too because especially [TS]

  in this you know second third fourth hour flight when you're really starting [TS]

  to get antsy and you're like I just got them playing we get to where it's going [TS]

  and then your watches like stand-up move around and say screw you I'm so when I [TS]

  get your second third fourth hour characterization [TS]

  after my my 13 hours yesterday to Lake the the standing indicator light can't [TS]

  figure out whether actually standing or not either he just goes at the fed to [TS]

  miss the hour no matter what [TS]

  which is good just kind of annoying when you're walking around it taps on the [TS]

  risk to stand up that's what seems that's weird though sometimes it seems [TS]

  to know that you have been standing and it doesn't show it to you I don't get it [TS]

  every every hour and 50 minutes I who knows maybe maybe maybe I don't but [TS]

  there are some times when I am up and I and then it anyway that's the top [TS]

  complained about the airport yeah I think that is where I i for the record [TS]

  remain remain pretty bullish on it just because I think you know the the arc the [TS]

  architect is interesting is even when all these apps are coming I'm still a [TS]

  little skeptical about the apt situation I think I'm a citizen the show [TS]

  previously that you know kind of what matters on for one area doesn't as a [TS]

  matter of the next one just absurd matter on the phone I don't think it's [TS]

  necessarily a matter for the watch where I think the watch remains super [TS]

  compelling is as a way to interact with the world around you you know and like [TS]

  when you can start your car with their unlocked doors with it or or identify [TS]

  yourself with it that's when it's it's becomes just a must have [TS]

  and really transformed what you do in the meantime like I've been very pleased [TS]

  with the notification stuff and yeah I just wish that I was with that Apple [TS]

  they just intercepted at all but i said i four times and you haven't taken the [TS]

  bait yet so i know i mean i i I even asked her about it [TS]

  in the live show you know was you know what was the thinking if you knew your [TS]

  gonna have this fuller St cages too few months later even oh yes announcing it [TS]

  in June doesn't mean it shipping its ship presumably until next month in [TS]

  September but even so if if if that 1.0 white kid had never existed right now [TS]

  people would be there be some jackass out there writing articles in having [TS]

  written them all summer that Apple watches dead because it doesn't have any [TS]

  third party software but in the grand scheme of things it would have only gone [TS]

  five months without rate without saying something is like in in other reviews [TS]

  would have during the Apple watch for it but like all but of course it will be [TS]

  rectified soon like that's a very different than like the watch is slow [TS]

  because I if you don't interact with the absent all the watch in my estimation is [TS]

  perfectly acceptable and the new Apple that's not quite so secretive that Apple [TS]

  that had Jeff Williams at recode conference in late may just say that he [TS]

  could you know coyly say that this ties in with what you want to talk about that [TS]

  cars are the ultimate mobile device you know more or less [TS]

  not saying yes we're working on a car but really towing getting right up to [TS]

  the line I think that that Apple today's Apple could have also said at the exact [TS]

  same event you know maybe a tree code that yes we are working on an SDK for [TS]

  Apple watching will have you know stay tuned for WBC next month right you know [TS]

  i i actually agree it could have come out you know and even could have come [TS]

  out maybe it could have even come out at the when they had the event in March [TS]

  where you know the second event where they you know she did the things and [TS]

  even said you know and you know state to know BC [TS]

  weighing in at attaches that but like this is that's what Apple does like you [TS]

  I mean when your I'm sure your priority that one of your what is your best [TS]

  article is not on during fireball dot com [TS]

  have said that yeah the way I made that mistake once the macrolide is not [TS]

  helpful roles like their version ones are supposed to be under under featured [TS]

  like there's there's there's a there's two things that are a product of a [TS]

  measure on one is the features but the other one is is like how done it is [TS]

  completed is in by completing a mean that it fully featured I mean that the [TS]

  features that are their work perfectly and you like what Apple's always been [TS]

  good at is yes well this is a version 1 it's going to be missing a lot of stuff [TS]

  but whatever is there's gonna work really really well remember the iPhone [TS]

  one like that that is arguably the most stable iPhone of all right i mean that [TS]

  that thing was was incredible for what it was even though it was missing all [TS]

  kinds of white basic stuff you know [TS]

  copy and paste and all that although we cannot name but was there worked [TS]

  perfectly [TS]

  better in general in Apple's might have to ship without a featured all been to [TS]

  ship with a crappy version of the feature exactly exactly in and that's [TS]

  what's so funny about the watch our concerns me as an apple observer is to [TS]

  me the aptitude haitian is is is adding it because to check a box and it's [TS]

  adding us poor implementation of it instead of taking the lumps for you know [TS]

  in reviews for missing something [TS]

  it added something in it and a poorly and that's that's a problem it's almost [TS]

  like they took somebody who knows maybe everybody was in agreement and it wasn't [TS]

  a fight about it but it seems to me like something that maybe was an internal [TS]

  debate that there were had to be some people [TS]

  who thought the same thing we do and it makes me think that the faction that one [TS]

  out and shipped it to the wrong lesson from the iPhone because famously we know [TS]

  that in hindsight famously with the original iPhone it didn't ship with a [TS]

  SDK and I don't think it would have under any circumstances even if the [TS]

  whole company was a unanimous that we need to have apps for this thing back in [TS]

  2007 @ still wouldn't happen because the OS was still they didn't they weren't [TS]

  ready to have public API and that's one thing Apple's always or at least the [TS]

  next side of Apple even actually the non ex I think it's been pretty good about [TS]

  over the years is that they you know once they publish API's they're pretty [TS]

  you know pretty good about supporting them going forward until their [TS]

  deprecated they don't really change things like that but famously you know [TS]

  there are people in jobs was on that side of it that really thought that they [TS]

  didn't need ups this you know we can do all the apps you need it would more or [TS]

  less be like what Apple TV has been up till date we're not that they wouldn't [TS]

  have new apps going forward but they would be things like the YouTube app or [TS]

  they would do them in partnership with somebody else and that if maybe if there [TS]

  was a Netflix app two years later Apple would write the Netflix app and put it [TS]

  on the phone in with API help from Netflix and stuff like that that they [TS]

  could just do it all themselves and have does he know couple of dozen apps and [TS]

  that the other side was no we should never happen and they looked at how this [TS]

  when and how the App Store was so has now become so essential to the success [TS]

  of the iPhone and the iPad and just blindly said therefore we need to do [TS]

  this for the watch and we need to have it right away I agree yeah I use I use [TS]

  overcast sometimes but that's about it I tried the I tried the SPG you are a [TS]

  keyless entry by the I it was too much hassle going to be out quick in like it [TS]

  would work better if they had like a beacon or something so came up [TS]

  automatically that would be awesome in so that's gonna be like my whole vision [TS]

  about your watch do stuff for you it was great to watch his great double double [TS]

  click it and do it it needs to be that easy to have you watched interact with [TS]

  the environment actually only open up the app screen find the SPG app open it [TS]

  quick to unlock key I get a multi-step process that was totally not worth it [TS]

  on the phone on the phone the phone work great because made it to the phones [TS]

  batteries to open the app but other than that I haven't touched at all [TS]

  longtime yeah I very seldom go back to that app screen and just for example 822 [TS]

  time this ninety-minute episode the talk-show wanted to run the timer on my [TS]

  watch and the way I wrote I'm sure is I know that there are over from the left [TS]

  is the chronograph watch face and i cant which I love for doing timing because I [TS]

  just don't have to launch anything there's a button right there on the [TS]

  watch face that starts a stopwatch [TS]

  no i i i i put I Marion Ave timer and alarm on my watch face and those are [TS]

  that's what I used by far the most applications in they work well because [TS]

  their native to the watch that there's no there's no wagon using them they were [TS]

  they were quickly yeah so it will be a long night I think that we'll see what [TS]

  happens this version 2 outside I'll be interested to see which ones [TS]

  breakthrough you know what i was gonna stop I was gonna move to a new topic but [TS]

  the other thing I knew I wanted to say something so great he said that is that [TS]

  I'm thinking this is my hunch [TS]

  can't I don't have concrete examples but my hunch is that the third party he [TS]

  isn't the app like the the delivery whether it's technically in code that in [TS]

  a.a bundle but the concept of a nap but faces a user and in iowa's parlance a [TS]

  nap is the thing that is an icon on the home screen and you launch it and then [TS]

  it gets the whole screen and then you interact with it until you hit the home [TS]

  button go back to the home screen allows for Babs and Apple white house that they [TS]

  have this thing full of absentee luncheon and takes over this I think I [TS]

  just think it's the wrong word metaphor [TS]

  package to me what's interesting and what works best from third parties right [TS]

  now are the notifications and the ones that are smart and that you can tap and [TS]

  get a list of buttons they give you options to do things like that I use for [TS]

  certain reminders and I have you have you tried to look yet from Microsoft [TS]

  email client now they have an excellent Apple Logic actually for that exact [TS]

  reason you get notification email you scroll down and there is archived we do [TS]

  a little later like whatever whatever the actions you wanna do on an email and [TS]

  yeah it's always an occasion later into actually that is actually an application [TS]

  that I use even though I never actually launch the application right you're not [TS]

  really using it in the apt metaphor you using it in this notification metaphor [TS]

  and you don't have people who put that together aren't writing all absurd to [TS]

  say okay after this notification here is the list of the actions we want to [TS]

  present and then you do these actions and yes they've written a peres code [TS]

  that when you say archive nose and tells the app ok take that email message and [TS]

  move it to the archive folder but it it from the user doesn't feel like using an [TS]

  app and the other thing that I think might be a big deal [TS]

  watch watch OS 2.0 our third-party complications yes being able to put [TS]

  those complications on your watch faces I think could be a real step up in [TS]

  within a month or two everybody's gonna be like I can't believe we live without [TS]

  this I've got my favorite thing you know he scores right here or whatever your [TS]

  favorite thing again again again that's not really that's not an app it's not [TS]

  using it as an apt using it is this little thing my face that you can tap [TS]

  and launch the app that you don't really think of it that way I think in [TS]

  indicating the hearing is all of them are are in this weather watches [TS]

  compelling is the degree to which it integrates with like the external world [TS]

  as opposed to being like all include into an app like a nap on the phone what [TS]

  makes the phone amazing is the phone anywhere you go you're connected to [TS]

  internet and all apps as your you've read about it unlike you have the web [TS]

  you know HTTP is thriving even if WWE is you know kind of a decline in mobile and [TS]

  if you that's what makes the phone remarkable is the way it keeps you [TS]

  connected to the internet everywhere but that that implies a different user [TS]

  experience when you're inside of an out because you're you're not actually in [TS]

  the apt inside of Facebook we're inside of Twitter you're inside of whatever [TS]

  your the New York Times whatever whatever it might be [TS]

  whereas the watch them with a complication what what it's doing is [TS]

  that complication is putting the information into you like your external [TS]

  world or the notification of interrupting what you're doing now and [TS]

  and the context they are operating in is not contained within the device it's [TS]

  like your world context and I think that hints that why why I'm still both on the [TS]

  watch and why I think you know in the long run this will be not just a luxury [TS]

  but but more much more of a must-have device is the degree to which will let [TS]

  you integrate computing with everything around you [TS]

  the physical world not just the virtual internet world while said I mean take a [TS]

  break here in thing or next month so it's our good friends at Warby Parker or [TS]

  B Parker believes that person [TS]

  correction I glasses simply should not cost 300 bucks or more they bypass the [TS]

  traditional channels so higher-quality better-looking prescription eyeglasses [TS]

  online at a fractional fraction of the usual retail prices starting at just 95 [TS]

  bucks their designs are vintage inspired with a contemporary twist every parent's [TS]

  custom fit with antireflective anti glare polycarbonate prescription glasses [TS]

  lenses every pair comes with a very nice hard case and cleaning cloth so you [TS]

  don't need to buy overpriced accessories and they now offer for our older or [TS]

  older friend progressive lenses aka bifocals but because they don't fancy [TS]

  stuff with a computer to make the two lenses together anyway those are usually [TS]

  very expensive or bees progressive lenses started just $295 including the [TS]

  frames David distant prescription at the top and the transition to a reading [TS]

  lines and their progressives are digital free form lenses that the most advanced [TS]

  progressive technology higher position and a larger field of vision than [TS]

  traditional progressive lenses buying glasses online sounds like it would be [TS]

  risky right because it's like you go to a glasses story and you know you start [TS]

  trying these things on right there in the store while you're trying one you [TS]

  you're going through a whole bunch of pairs in this that he has you covered [TS]

  makes it super-easy you go to the website and you pick up the glasses you [TS]

  like up to five pairs and they just send them to your house [TS]

  free of charge and you borrow five at a time taking your house [TS]

  triumph on home at your own pace [TS]

  see which ones you like to buy them you can use your computer's webcam and they [TS]

  have tools to help you do the things that the things that you know [TS]

  it matters like how far apart your pupils are you know whether it's you [TS]

  know 1700 metres centimeters or 16 or something that they have a simple little [TS]

  if indeed centimeters you can have a problem for a partier I don't know 23 [TS]

  inches whatever centimeters in inches would be seven inches maybe a few [TS]

  walleye anyway we need credit card which is a standard size and Cameron knows how [TS]

  hard it is and it measures you distance I've done in that I have these were be [TS]

  partners III their best classes that I own and added there you know the [TS]

  distance thing worked it really feels like a real parent classes so you can [TS]

  try them at home see which ones you like no obligation to buy if you get five [TS]

  glasses and almond you don't like any of them all back and there's nothing [TS]

  nothing except put them back in the box with the prepaid label and dropping it [TS]

  off whenever you have to do to get back in the UPS's him that they also have [TS]

  sunglasses prescription and non-prescription polarized sunglasses [TS]

  anyway the last thing they want me to mention it is a great thing is that they [TS]

  believe in giving back to the world and for every pair of glasses Warby Parker [TS]

  cells they give another pair to someone in need through a whole bunch of vision [TS]

  charities you can check it out her website analyst who they are but they go [TS]

  all around the world and it truly is a remarkable things just imagine what that [TS]

  would be like if you can even see clearly didn't have the money or the [TS]

  resources to get just a simple little $95 pair of eyeglasses that could fix [TS]

  the problem [TS]

  well be partners is working on that so that's really great they've been doing [TS]

  that for years so here's what you do go to Warby Parker dot com slash the talk [TS]

  show I believe correct 10 seconds [TS]

  but go there and check it out and my thanks to worry Parker three classes I [TS]

  will say I quick to the conversion of the centimeters to inches using [TS]

  spotlight which I used to be a third-party resources I used to be a [TS]

  huge watch party user yeah I can keep their life without [TS]

  why would I was a very long time basis what happened was there I their copy [TS]

  paste functionality was we had this weird bug for a very long time never [TS]

  complain about it and so I gave up in an app using another another clipboard [TS]

  manager which by the way I will say like that's the number one reason I don't use [TS]

  nothing more than I do is because I can't always something so I tried out [TS]

  when we tried using this and using spotlight I did have to add using Pierce [TS]

  added something called flashlights flashlight adds a bunch of additional [TS]

  functionality to spotlight include the ability to like I can search directly in [TS]

  different amines or there's a there's all kinds of stuff it adds on to it to [TS]

  make it much more wants part like with like the other custom actions are you [TS]

  can do but I have to admit I i have been with it for like six months down pretty [TS]

  I'm pretty happy with it I never heard of this yeah I could use straight solid [TS]

  I have to have the stuff that me pasting it into their shoulders [TS]

  how we doing on time or or running for too long ride an hour and 16 minutes we [TS]

  have forty minutes technically to do the rest of the show runs but not too long I [TS]

  really do I really do wanna get your thing on this car thing so here's here's [TS]

  my here's my conundrum in a nutshell with the car thing is the issue I have [TS]

  with obviously there was a smokin think there'd be fire there's two possible [TS]

  outcomes here one is that Apple produces like a normal car which i think they [TS]

  could do a good job in her car in very competitive except that I have questions [TS]

  about the long-term trajectory of the car market particularly the rise of [TS]

  Cooper and and car-sharing author thing I think in the long run [TS]

  car ownership is likely to decline which seems odd to watch into that the other [TS]

  options do the self-driving car which i think is you know he is certainly the [TS]

  directory but then I questioned Apple competence in employing office off [TS]

  driving car which seems to fit much more googles strength particularly the with [TS]

  the data intensive approach they're taking to it I i just i mean there's [TS]

  lots of smoke here but it just doesn't seem to quite add up for me maybe this [TS]

  comes from my legs that use a news app national watch I don't because it's [TS]

  unusable either in Taiwan I tried it when I first got the watch and it made [TS]

  it told me to make to illegal turns both of which will get me killed so I don't [TS]

  know why I'm baffled about the whole thing to be helpful I'm just so i cant [TS]

  figure out what I think just a rehash as of this recording we are recording on [TS]

  Wednesday August 26 show part about tomorrow [TS]

  some of the smoke that appeared in the last over the summer [TS]

  a whole bunch of hirings at Apple that we have spotted from like linkedin [TS]

  profiles changing and etcetera of car people of various sorts it doesn't even [TS]

  matter of people with experience in the car industry or from Tesla from BMW [TS]

  what have you and it doesn't make any sense for Apple of hired all of them are [TS]

  something car related and then there was the thing who got that scoop where Apple [TS]

  is trying to book The Guardian did ya a test track that and and I took issue [TS]

  with it and just my point was that the Guardian's headline was something about [TS]

  Apple you know shows that Apple is working on an autonomous car and I [TS]

  didn't see that as being evident that it was an autonomous car right could have [TS]

  been a normal car yeah and it would people said to me and responses that [TS]

  it's not just a test track it's like a little fake town this area [TS]

  naval base San Francisco or something and that it doesn't make sense for [TS]

  anything other than a naval Thomas car because if you want to test a regular [TS]

  car he contested I'm not sure that holds though because I think Apple definitely [TS]

  wants testing area nearby so the fact that they could get a test track in [TS]

  Detroit or something like that that doesn't help them and who knows maybe [TS]

  there are some minor autonomous features in a collision detection or something [TS]

  like that they're working on but that it's not really a self-driving car [TS]

  because that thing to me and I maybe I'm wrong I hope I'm wrong I I think so [TS]

  German cars sound great I really hope that they come sooner than later I hope [TS]

  you know it sounds fantastic [TS]

  it just seems to me though my gut feeling is that way off thats it thats [TS]

  really far off in the future not read it sounds like we're in the same boat here [TS]

  which is interesting to some people I mean like it seems like we're far enough [TS]

  out that Apple wouldn't need to wait for that if that if they want to get into [TS]

  the car business and that they can do this iterative get in and start figuring [TS]

  out how to sell them around the country in the world you know get in and start [TS]

  doing that before they have the self-driving aspect down and then do you [TS]

  know and then come out with up to come out with a self-driving car at the same [TS]

  time that they would have anyway you know and and on a longer scale like what [TS]

  I was saying before about the App Store for the iPhone that it didn't make sense [TS]

  even if they had [TS]

  in a hundred percent internally committed which they weren't but even if [TS]

  they had been internally committed to we should do in App Store for the iPhone it [TS]

  didn't make sense for them to wait until 2008 to ship the first one the one that [TS]

  is shipped in 2007 was totally worth shipping did I think I'll be told they [TS]

  were doubtful if they could shipping a car in 2020 that is sort of traditional [TS]

  in terms of how you drive it and doing a self-driving car 2025 that's that I like [TS]

  that that make sense in being because I they're still clearly a significant [TS]

  market for for a car now and for all the various reasons like I mean biondi [TS]

  you know john loves cars but also just from pure finance perspective there's a [TS]

  lot to like about a balloon a car and yes and the other thing is if they start [TS]

  out with normal cars they could outfit those cars with all the sensors and [TS]

  stuff to start gathering data that would go into a self-driving car like what you [TS]

  know Google mapping cars on the road a broken could theoretically get much like [TS]

  actual cars on the road [TS]

  gathering data improving you know their their data set in there over the stuff [TS]

  that I think of it as being a multistage process that's when they were [TS]

  satisfactory answers I think you've been productive I appreciate it I just wrote [TS]

  them down but I've had them in my head [TS]

  dangerous for me to walk around so now I've got them written down but I've got [TS]

  three reasons why they make sense for Apple why Ms financial cars are [TS]

  expensive and they are big business there are millions of cars sold in the [TS]

  world and they sell for tens of thousands of dollars so that's a good in [TS]

  general business to be in [TS]

  to the market is ripe for technical disruption and it is it's already [TS]

  happening moved to electric drivetrains and stuff like that [TS]

  power power sources and the way that dr dre interchanging based on and self [TS]

  driving as in other areas I guess it's unrelated I guess you could ever stop [TS]

  driving a car that runs on gasoline and you can certainly have a self-driving [TS]

  but that's too big areas though weathers enormous disruption and so it's time you [TS]

  know the market is obviously going to change in the car markets gonna look a [TS]

  lot different than 20 years now and that's not necessarily true now from [TS]

  where it was twenty years ago right the pop top carmakers today are pretty much [TS]

  the same ones top carmakers twenty years ago and cars are technically very very [TS]

  similar I don't think that's going to be true twenty years so it's a good time to [TS]

  get in and they get to a point on that when computers come into a new market [TS]

  and there's the old standbys and then there's the computer companies its the [TS]

  computer companies it seemed to do better building the new the old then [TS]

  then the old thing makers are computerizing there things so yeah it's [TS]

  a dream is a perfectly built these phones and pagers and all of a sudden it [TS]

  got to a point where these things could be real computers and all that sort of [TS]

  an arbitrary distinction saying that you know today's smartphones are real [TS]

  computers in the rim models from ten years ago or not but I I stand by it and [TS]

  that companies like Apple were better at making phones even if the famously don't [TS]

  like the first phone dropped calls whether that was a tease falter Apple's [TS]

  fault whatever [TS]

  Apple got better making phone antennas lot quicker REM gun building computers [TS]

  think that the same thing that happened cars computing matters I think Apple is [TS]

  going to be able to make a card easier than even BMW or Mercedes companies with [TS]

  good you know well-run companies with good histories ago computers [TS]

  there's also a third factor is very simple [TS]

  the car market has always been a hundred years and counting and market where [TS]

  design matters [TS]

  design matters [TS]

  and that plays into Apple strength when I just that is without a couple things [TS]

  out when they first came out I wrote an very similar article like saying there's [TS]

  actually a lot of things that make sense and I would you nailed most of them out [TS]

  just add from the design design matters perspective the making electric cars got [TS]

  a lot simpler so [TS]

  or whether Karzai relative to a mechanical car is a much simpler thing [TS]

  to build motors are much more will unite national car like is a controlled [TS]

  explosion happening constantly and so that the level of refinement need to [TS]

  build a quality engine and all that sort of things is much different in much [TS]

  different skill set then that electric car where it so it's much easier to [TS]

  enter the market now than it was and what happens is you know I think you're [TS]

  driving up this because that having engine expertise in having know how to [TS]

  build a great combustion engine is no longer a price of entry that changes [TS]

  what matters the priority so used to be that you first off making a good Angeles [TS]

  table stakes and then you could get to the quote-unquote user interface but now [TS]

  that the engine is no longer price of entry what matters most [TS]

  has changes because there there is not there is there's new table stakes just [TS]

  look at what BMW's names down to four right [TS]

  the variance motor works exactly exactly and so this is my second point which is [TS]

  that the reason why I think you you said that the list of top makers will be very [TS]

  different twenty years and is today is it's any time because this fundamental [TS]

  change from from mechanical to electric and get this an iPod Touch himself [TS]

  driving stuff which I think you perfectly articulated is gonna be a [TS]

  separate event because you have this shift from mechanical to electric it's [TS]

  everyone's starting from the same spot [TS]

  objectively in this like going to mobile right it wasn't ever like all Microsoft [TS]

  miss more often dismal they were they were on mobile earlier than anyone else [TS]

  the issue was that [TS]

  what mattered in mobile it was a brand new paradigm being good at the desk top [TS]

  10 advantage of mobile in fact if anything it made Microsoft worse off [TS]

  because the temptation to do take the desktop paradigm in stick it on a mobile [TS]

  was overwhelming and it's like what they did right Windows Mobile actually had a [TS]

  start by a start button you press the stylist in a pop-up windows ninety-five [TS]

  menu and I think it's probably gonna be the same challenge with with cars the [TS]

  mechanical it's not just that the mechanical guys no longer have an [TS]

  advantage over the electric guys if that they're actually at a disadvantage [TS]

  because they will be much less capable of truly starting from with a fresh [TS]

  sheet and rethinking what a car means and if electric start with the idea that [TS]

  is going to be a car and all that other stuff that has to gym goes away then [TS]

  yeah I have you like a 17 screen in in their car right that's actually much [TS]

  more important and and I think that's a reason why in these big transitions [TS]

  the big players actually not completely transforming and look at my reasons are [TS]

  no one they're expensive in its people spend a lot of money on the 22 market [TS]

  right protect disruption three it's a market where designers historically [TS]

  mattered that there's the same three things going on with the watch people [TS]

  spend a lot of money on watch it right for technical disruption and by what I [TS]

  mean by that is that we we've reached a point where you can build a UNIX [TS]

  computer that runs in a wide size device which is networked which is a point of [TS]

  disruption to the did you know whether or not you know who knows maybe the [TS]

  digital watches are gonna die again [TS]

  bbw fat ladies but there certainly seems like it's time for disruption because it [TS]

  wasn't possible before and it is possible now [TS]

  and three it's a it's a market where design matters well that's absolutely i [TS]

  mean I don't know that that's more true for any market of the watches maybe you [TS]

  know you'd only other thing you compared to be women's fashion you know in terms [TS]

  of importance of design and the incredible variety of it at the top [TS]

  there so the exact same reasons I think that Apple's got in to watch market [TS]

  exactly the reasons I get in the car market and it's exactly the same reasons [TS]

  they got into the cell phone market they're expensive it's a market that's [TS]

  right for technical disruption in an area where Apple's expert and design [TS]

  matters what I would add I guess the thing would phrase about the Technol [TS]

  disruption who would refine it further to say it's not that these decals [TS]

  eruption it's that what used to be a mechanical object is becoming a computer [TS]

  and a little computer company and a car today is a mechanical object laws [TS]

  computer stacked on top of it like some models like nearly a hundred micro [TS]

  processors but if you think like the reason why there's a hundred different [TS]

  ones in all distinct and they all know it in why it's hard for you to a [TS]

  mechanic even service a modern car is because they're all kind of tacked on [TS]

  their tactic by if you start with the assumption that an electric car is a [TS]

  computer with wheels attached then it becomes very obvious that a computer [TS]

  company is going to is going to have an advantage in the long run and that's a [TS]

  similar phone it it it was no longer a phone with you know calendar [TS]

  functionality or functionality it became a computer that could also make calls [TS]

  and that that that flipping of the paradigm is is what makes it an [TS]

  attractive market for Apple for Google for the big software companies yeah and [TS]

  I think you're exactly right and your example that the entrenched market [TS]

  leaders are the ones about the heart of trouble [TS]

  zooming out far enough to go back and just start over [TS]

  that they've found best example that I can think of and I know I've done this [TS]

  for years is the fact that the iPhone doesn't have a green make a call button [TS]

  and a red Hang Up button up shirt and found an old mansion before I think [TS]

  people have pointed their jobs you know there are certain phone to come up [TS]

  before that didn't have those things but very few it is you know they're David [TS]

  their way off in a corner of phone history every single mainstream cell [TS]

  phone that was ever made before the iPhone had in fact the color is almost [TS]

  never change they had a green button to make a call and a red button hang up the [TS]

  call so getting rid of those buttons was just like a huge and end really does [TS]

  relegating the phone to a nap status you know I've said this before too I think [TS]

  in hindsight I think if there's a mistake that Apple's made in the you [TS]

  know what's it been eight years since the phone I feel I really wish the day [TS]

  would further reduce the magical nature of the of the phone app I don't want I [TS]

  would like to reduce incoming phone call to the same sort of notification I get [TS]

  from anything else I'll tell you why should it take over my screen and Indu [TS]

  yeah sure let it out let me send ringtone so if I have the volume on [TS]

  it'll play the ringtone but I don't want to take over the whole screen and if I [TS]

  have it on silent I just wanted to drop down a little window shade at the top I [TS]

  really their phone calls are just not that important to me so if anything I [TS]

  feel like Apple has fallen behind in reducing the fact that the phone should [TS]

  be just just a nap still has a few magical features you know when you get a [TS]

  phone call the way it takes over no matter what you're doing but for the [TS]

  most part they did and I don't think any of the existing phone makers would have [TS]

  made that jump now that that's exactly where they could but they didn't write [TS]

  well that's always the thing in this is the this is why I started succeed and [TS]

  why incumbents fail like the incumbent to easily has more experience they have [TS]

  more capital they're more money to invest but all that pales in comparison [TS]

  to one year incentives and to your kind of preconceived notions like if you if [TS]

  Microsoft came up there if you want to characterize the OS were computer is [TS]

  like square like [TS]

  make a physical object like they were motivated to make the most perfect [TS]

  square in the world that fit this new paradigm of a PC [TS]

  the problem is when the phone came along what you need with a triangle and [TS]

  Microsoft was so invested in everything but their corporation in every [TS]

  organization incentives were we're perfectly aligned to make the best [TS]

  squares in the world which meant they viewed the triangle as a attempt to push [TS]

  the square into it right [TS]

  whereas if you started from scratch with the trip with the triangle is not just [TS]

  that you you are starting from the same place as Microsoft CEO in equal chance [TS]

  to them you actually a better chance you know what you're targeting and you don't [TS]

  have all that baggage in Croft [TS]

  famously disruption it such as that makes up that there's a financial aspect [TS]

  where they want to keep the old financial strain but it goes deeper than [TS]

  just find that finances it's like the weary way people think white is [TS]

  condition for a certain view of the world and it's incredibly difficult to [TS]

  break out of that particularly in a large organization where the stuff is [TS]

  like is embedded deep in the culture in the way people think about things we [TS]

  just we've gone over ninety minute but I'm just gonna call time out here and [TS]

  I'm just going to say that the remainder of the show doesn't count I wanna take a [TS]

  moment here during this time out and i wanna thank our third sponsor and its a [TS]

  good friends at Casper Casper cells and obsessively engineered mattress is [TS]

  shockingly fair price just the right thing just the right balance they take [TS]

  to common technologies from modern mattresses latex foam and memory foam [TS]

  and they put them together for just the right version you have to sit there and [TS]

  choose between four different mattress types they they've figured out one thats [TS]

  grade and you just pick the size you want and that's it that's all you have [TS]

  to do it is so easy that to me is like the best thing about casper is that you [TS]

  don't have to sit there and think what do I want this one [TS]

  more memory or its heads bowed to rid of it now they just figured it out they [TS]

  figure out the right the right mix and that's it seems crazy seems even crazier [TS]

  and dialog glasses on but they've got the same type of thing you just call up [TS]

  they send it to you it's a risk free trial I think it's a hundred days [TS]

  something like that yeah it is a hundred eighty eight hundred days with the thing [TS]

  by Kasper mattress hundred days if you don't like it [TS]

  ship it back to them their mattresses are made in America and the prices are [TS]

  just blow a good really just remarkable go if you don't believe me go to a [TS]

  mattress store and try to find high quality mattresses these prices 500 [TS]

  bucks for a twin 954 a king and all the sizes in-between in between 500 and 9:50 [TS]

  it's an outstanding price point for a really good mattress I just it still [TS]

  blows me away when I think about when I got they sent me one of these things [TS]

  last year comes a little box you cannot believe that there is a full size [TS]

  mattress in this little box and it's got instructions kind of waves as much as [TS]

  you'd imagine that way but it is incredibly small box because it's [TS]

  doesn't have springs and stuff like that that stuff is like ancient technology [TS]

  just phone in ages Tanner somehow packet into this thing so you put it in a room [TS]

  where you want the mattress that's the most important thing listen to the box [TS]

  and then you open the box the right way and it's just make school noise that I [TS]

  won't try to replicate as it just sucks in the air and then all of a sudden boom [TS]

  you gotta matters in your room [TS]

  it feels accurate living in Back to the Future something like the future of back [TS]

  to the future where you know you put a little piece in that thing in 10 seconds [TS]

  later you put pizza except instead of a pizza to mattress doesn't make sense I [TS]

  hope so [TS]

  could not be an easier way I've got a whole bunch of tweet and retweet people [TS]

  are like buying these things and they all say the same thing when I thought it [TS]

  was crazy to buy a Mac [TS]

  actress online that I'd been listening to this thing on the talk show and I did [TS]

  it and it is it's a great mattress I think I don't have this year for me this [TS]

  could not this might not still be true but I believe it was it was true for a [TS]

  while if you live in Manhattan you can get a Casper mattress delivered same day [TS]

  by some cat on a bicycle which is crazy absolutely crazy so just dial up at [TS]

  their website as Casper dot com but I do know that code the code is the talk show [TS]

  and you'll get 50 bucks off by using that code so gotta casper dot com use [TS]

  the code the talk show host a 50 bucks off so my thanks to them let's wrap it [TS]

  up we gotta wrap this thing up [TS]

  timeout can only last so long I have one last thing that I wanted to talk about [TS]

  and that was this Amazon day in new york new york times you see this I did I [TS]

  write I wrote a lot of a lot of Urdu daily updates in an article [TS]

  yeah so first off I haven't read about it at all so how late you will first [TS]

  there's an article just today on Twitter about someone who used to work for [TS]

  Amazon who left a majority leaving at the same time [TS]

  yeah and I saw that both got cut off from her insurance and which was claimed [TS]

  to be a mistake and then came back or truck parts reports oregon is she was [TS]

  basically marginalized and resigned a few months later which you know [TS]

  certainly so I think just to be clear that sort of behavior in all the kind of [TS]

  anecdotal allegations of treating a miscarriage poorly the cancer patient [TS]

  like that's horrible and and deserves to be condemned the strongest possible [TS]

  terms and I will say I believe that it happened because if you're in an [TS]

  environment where they're pushing so hard [TS]

  if you're if you're running wraps of the line like you're gonna go over it [TS]

  sometimes so I actually tend to believe that there there is there isn't true [TS]

  that stuff so that that that aside just be super clear that that that should be [TS]

  tolerated and I hope that this will produce changes [TS]

  secondly though the the issue I had with the New York Times article specifically [TS]

  was in this sounds really like like silly but was the tone of it I there's [TS]

  all these kind of throw a while ago you'll make a basic kind of marking the [TS]

  person what was soaked sailing of Rosendahl to someone or like older [TS]

  working so hard so you get scotch tape like there was kind of the the the Snort [TS]

  and the disdain that in the condescension they felt it had that [TS]

  really rubbed me the wrong way and the reason it did was the fact of the matter [TS]

  is I know a lot of the renowned in Seattle I personally chosen not to work [TS]

  at Amazon because I had a family and it's not great for that by all accounts [TS]

  ever knows that but the flip side where have I been single I think I would have [TS]

  loved the opportunity like I love the idea of an environment where they are [TS]

  you like you should challenge something if you think something's wrong you stand [TS]

  up be somebody's about position you tell me about presentation that happen at [TS]

  Apple I got likely torn apart one time at Apple and like I think I did cry cry [TS]

  at my desk and you know what I came back and it went to me doing the best work [TS]

  I've done in my career and not only that it it instilled in me the understanding [TS]

  that you can dig deeper in go down a deeper level and get something better [TS]

  and I think that plays out and what i do today like really wanting to deliver [TS]

  something beyond and I can trace it back to that happening and I am pretty [TS]

  hesitant to all these people are paid very well they they all choose to work [TS]

  there they could all get job somewhere else and I am little has been in my high [TS]

  horse and tell it like that I need to take care of them and what they do [TS]

  talking on Amazon's warehouse workers unhappy at the conversation because [TS]

  they're too much worse position at the white collar workers that kinda aspect [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  you covered everything I wanted to cover and what kind of put your finger on it [TS]

  better than me and I feel to me was the guy I hear you're saying about the [TS]

  contents conversation about like you know that they're working they're [TS]

  busting our asses for 20 hours a day answering emails after midnight to send [TS]

  you know scotch tape to people overnight or did you know doing one day and said [TS]

  to and I agree with that and I feel like that's sort of like saying that New York [TS]

  Times writers are busting their asses to send popped up dead trees to people [TS]

  the next every morning through your kind of missing the point it does make people [TS]

  happy when they have good experience with Amazon right where you're like you [TS]

  know your name pair of boots breaks and you can get like the exact right pair of [TS]

  replacement shoelaces and there there the next day that's actually really cool [TS]

  like whereas like free Amazon there or if Amazon doesn't have your looking for [TS]

  it where do you go to get a specific kind of shoe laces in the real world [TS]

  Lake they've made the world a better place I know there's other places or [TS]

  even by Sheila's the Amazon but Amazon's often the place I go to first so I it [TS]

  was at the beginning like if you have a great service experience again actually [TS]

  brains your whole day that the order some shows up a day early like it's it's [TS]

  cool in its ok that is cool [TS]

  humans Lakewood not everything has to be white are eating their vegetables and [TS]

  the other thing that really got me about it was the way that day I thought the [TS]

  article really conflated entirely different aspects of it like exactly [TS]

  what you said if there are eight our problems like like a lack of tolerance [TS]

  you know poor poor poor responses after maternity leave or something like that [TS]

  that's really bad i mean that's over the line and it really does a red alert [TS]

  going off like that so I guess I should be flashing if it's that you you had a [TS]

  crummy idea or poorly thought through idea [TS]

  and you were told this is a crummy idea that poorly thought through that's harsh [TS]

  and i've been there I mean I think everybody has I mean I've been there it [TS]

  hurts but it's you know the way it works and I don't know how that's different [TS]

  than other companies how is it different than Pixar which has a famously ruthless [TS]

  not ruthless meaning mean or personal but just in terms of being really really [TS]

  hard to get a story through and that they always say over and over and over [TS]

  again everything sartre story and they have this story making process that [TS]

  entirely collaborative and you have to keep coming back to the same group of [TS]

  your colleagues and peers and presenting your story and they're gonna pick it [TS]

  apart and tell you everything that's wrong with it and you keep coming back [TS]

  that's how they make Pixar movies like Pixar movies don't get made and they [TS]

  don't have the track record that they have one hit after another by having [TS]

  story meetings where they want to make sure that whoever is presenting feels [TS]

  good coming out of an apple to me there's that anecdote actually speaking [TS]

  he shared it then but it was repeating that New Yorker article where John you [TS]

  know i think is coming out of a meeting in either job I was asking jobs why he [TS]

  was so critical or I have confided in jobs that he was disappointed [TS]

  presentation as I heard the story was I can find a job that he was disappointed [TS]

  presentation and and jobs at home like that was a very selfish thing to do and [TS]

  I was trying to be nice to the guy and in jobs like know you were trying to [TS]

  make him like you but you're concerned about him not liking you if you were [TS]

  honest about the mistake they can actually you're doing an incredible [TS]

  disservice if you're doing a company to service and you should be ashamed of [TS]

  yourself and I was like just hope he was super pissed jobs he's using but it [TS]

  totally transformed the way he knew his job in what he did I give he wasn't [TS]

  honest with what was in front of him he was doing everyone into service in the [TS]

  pursuit of wanting people to like him in like that was just deadly for him and [TS]

  for the company and and all that and I'm eBay CEO says microsoft [TS]

  in fighting in in always backbiting stuff the reality is the old Microsoft [TS]

  legend has it back in the nineties when gates was there [TS]

  vicious and business in a like this sucks like it should have been better [TS]

  and frankly when I was there the issue that I have Microsoft was the way I [TS]

  resigning to promote my first year was I was told by what was great but my how [TS]

  was poor like basically I was toys to blunt and I like people uncomfortable [TS]

  with my word I said in meetings and and like what happened was you do get the [TS]

  back-biting business always exist humans that happens back channels in behind the [TS]

  scenes right in the this is what are better it happened in the open in the [TS]

  back channels where Microsoft thing is gone gone wrong in some respects is all [TS]

  that business never went away just got taken off the top table being visible to [TS]

  everyone got stuffed underneath and then you get this toxic environment that mean [TS]

  you say I left over two years by now that's all right when they I remember [TS]

  the last time I took a screenwriting class in college and i enjoy to [TS]

  graceland was taught by a guy who used to work on Alf anywhere you know [TS]

  everything from from PBS shows that would truly serious to the Alpha [TS]

  Saturday morning cartoon show and he said that you know we had these cribs [TS]

  every week everybody would you have to hand in your your writing on a certain [TS]

  day and never copies and disease free digital everybody gonna copy and the [TS]

  class and indeed after reading for the next class and then we would each have a [TS]

  crit and everybody would discuss each others working he said this is how how [TS]

  hollywood works you criticize the work not the writer not personally don't say [TS]

  you should have done this you talk about like the character should have said this [TS]

  or the dialogue is right you don't say you know I give you and I both written [TS]

  something and I [TS]

  I wouldn't say man you did a crappy job with the dialogue here you decide this [TS]

  line of dialogue doesn't ring true to me it doesn't sound like something that [TS]

  this character would say it's the work not the person that doesn't mean it [TS]

  doesn't hurt when you walk away and you know that you've got it marked up [TS]

  screenplay that's full of really really astute criticism but it's not price [TS]

  especially if you invest in yourself in this weird stuff right it is the best [TS]

  word comes when you put yourself into it and sell to be able to manage someone [TS]

  criticizing your work and they may be doing it correctly but you identify so [TS]

  deeply within that it's hard to handle [TS]

  I get that and ya know where I think the same page I get the also the extra hours [TS]

  thing but again these are these are adults making well into the six figures [TS]

  include stock compensation like that's left for them that's for them to decide [TS]

  in the truth is I don't know anyone who works at a successful tech company [TS]

  particularly either one that Apple and Amazon kind of the user experience which [TS]

  requires that much more perfection and attention to detail or the early stage [TS]

  of any company in their building their competitive advantage that doesn't mean [TS]

  it maybe this is part of people's reaction they don't want they don't want [TS]

  to admit that there's a choice i mean i i do believe you can't have it all like [TS]

  you can't be an attentive father or husband and be a senior vice president [TS]

  at Amazon I don't think it's possible for Apple for that matter and it's [TS]

  something that I don't think we like to talk about like to think about Apple [TS]

  being this great company are out of their products we don't want to like [TS]

  like I think there's an app built almost that comes with these articles and is [TS]

  part of why people react so strongly to them I ben thompson thank you for your [TS]

  time [TS]

  people can find more of your writing street directory dot com and I've season [TS]

  2 of exponent will be next up will be coming out next week so I'm back to back [TS]

  in the podcast chair that is your podcast co-hosted with [TS]

  James Allworth yes talk about basketball [TS]

  extent where I make fun of genes are having no idea about any sport did you [TS]

  see that what's his name is back on Twitter and the guy got fired from you [TS]

  since ya Bill Simmons and he called out to the Bombers yeah the Clippers yup [TS]

  that was bill Simmons that's what happens when you're ninety minutes [TS]

  anyway thank you I will let you go and talk to you soon I look forward to [TS]

  hearing the next episode of your show all season [TS]