The Talk Show

142: ‘They Sherlocked F.lux’, With Special Guest Dan Frommer


  you were at CES i was now correct me if I'm wrong [TS]

  so this is the second year ok and you came on the show last year and talked [TS]

  about ces writing this might be our third or fourth the annual CES [TS]

  discussion with and I think the first 2i didn't go and we were like oh we should [TS]

  go and last year I went for the first time my it is absolutely a John groover [TS]

  the talkshow tradition that like mid january i have someone on we talk about [TS]

  ces and then I say you know what damn it next year I'm going next year comes and [TS]

  goes and I don't go [TS]

  you almost need to start planning it now and it's funny because they've already [TS]

  changed the website over to 2017 CES right I wonder if they have a script [TS]

  that does that it was like the next day boom yeah the websites already turned [TS]

  over is great man i loved it it was super fun it's it's absolute insanity I [TS]

  mean you go to Vegas a lot it is and i have i had not been to Vegas in 10 years [TS]

  actually before last year's CES and it is absolute chaos [TS]

  I mean there are 200,000 people there who do not belong they are there from [TS]

  its really it's kind of neat because basically what happens is at the [TS]

  beginning of the year you know that not everyone but I'll a lot 200,000 people [TS]

  who work in tech and in adjacent industries are all living in one city [TS]

  for a week so you run into people who you know you would not expect to see I'm [TS]

  totally like randomly ran into a guy in a restaurant we were both waiting to eat [TS]

  at the bar and we ended up eating lunch together who's like was partially [TS]

  responsible for the creation of the mp3 random random stuff like that and then [TS]

  you're like reading slack and your co-workers like hey you know that Reed [TS]

  Hastings is giving a talk across you know in in another place in Vegas like [TS]

  now I didn't know that you know there's just so much going on it's it's absolute [TS]

  madness and chaos but if you can tolerate it and I guess enough trip to [TS]

  Tokyo have now made me totally chilled out around massive crowds it's really [TS]

  cool it's very special [TS]

  I think the crowds they wouldn't that wouldn't bother me i can take crowds in [TS]

  small doses and I me when I go to design a couple times a year and stuff like [TS]

  that I I would i like though with if you go somewhere like that is if you can [TS]

  take the time to spend sometime somewhere away from the crowd every day [TS]

  yeah where it gets to you and I don't mind the actual crop work gets too is [TS]

  that the the infrastructure is just way beyond capacity I mean did people are [TS]

  talking about waiting an hour just to get on the monorail just getting into [TS]

  the station or you know you go you want to go anywhere to eat lunch forget it [TS]

  like you're waiting or they have this shuttle bus that goes from one because [TS]

  it because it basically takes up both the sands and the las vegas convention [TS]

  centers and they have a shuttle bus a free shuttle bus that goes between them [TS]

  it can't be more than a mile and you know what it's not far now and I've [TS]

  walked it and it's totally walkable I mean there's barely any sidewalk but [TS]

  this bus trip takes like 40 minutes because there's so much traffic because [TS]

  everyone else is in a cab trying to get between these places and it's just [TS]

  madness [TS]

  last year I stayed at the fairly far south end of the strip and this year one [TS]

  of my priorities was stay somewhere further closer to the action at least [TS]

  you could walk from south is the airport side right back down by mandalay bay [TS]

  yeah manually bit funny i mightn't in my head I feel like that's up like that's [TS]

  up the strip hell ya down the strip is down by like the weirdest here [TS]

  yeah but it's the other way around right right yeah and so that was useful [TS]

  although a lot of the stuff a lot of the like official press conferences are at [TS]

  mandalay bay crazy though it's like so far away i know i'm i'm in a fortunate [TS]

  position where I could basically pick you know courts where I work [TS]

  qz com is a you know where were still small enough that we can be picky about [TS]

  what we cover so i don't have to actually go and live blog and end video [TS]

  press conference or something like that no one's telling me I need to do that so [TS]

  i actually got to skip all those official press conference type thing so [TS]

  I didn't actually have to go down to mandalay bay this time but a lot of a [TS]

  lot of the action like the good stuff's going on at Metro cosmopolitan at the at [TS]

  the at the win and venetian so you really want to be hanging out toward [TS]

  kind of centered in North yeah strip most of the time so it was anybody else [TS]

  when courts there or were you the only representative reports there [TS]

  um no several I think there were four of us this year to from our ad side and [TS]

  then my colleague Mike Murphy who's a reporter who writes about we we have a [TS]

  beat called machines with brains and its drones robots ki and that kind of stuff [TS]

  and he was very busy there's a lot although he did he uh huh [TS]

  he came to CES with a cold you can't do that because you're going to get sick by [TS]

  the end but you can't show up with a cold so I felt bad about that but so [TS]

  yeah he was there with me and we were we were basically just you know doing [TS]

  meetings hitting the show floor the show Flores is comically extensive like you [TS]

  can walk I I you know I had my Apple watch with me so wednesday was my was my [TS]

  busiest day I think I walked over 14 miles on Wednesday whereas an average [TS]

  day prior walk like six to eight [TS]

  yeah that's not 40 anything over Tennyson I did 27,000 steps so that was [TS]

  that was pretty crazy in Boots to which was dumb but it cool so that it's a [TS]

  recurring theme and i know we say this every year but that everybody goes to [TS]

  see as quote unquote everybody does but and then all all the writers they all [TS]

  say they hate it [TS]

  everybody just as soon as it hasn't even started yet and you twitter is filled [TS]

  with you know people on in our racket saying how much they hate it ah which [TS]

  always makes me think well then why do you go you know like why does everybody [TS]

  go to this thing that they hate but I'm exactly with you my temptation to go is [TS]

  it's because I obvious i could write whatever the hell I want [TS]

  so I'm not going and I can skip whatever I want so why understand that the hatred [TS]

  comes from people who if you get an assignment from an editor and they're [TS]

  like here here's your list of [TS]

  press conferences to go to figure out what's new from you know [TS]

  LG and Samsung and you know whoever and it all just starts to blur together [TS]

  because everybody is making the exact same things 55 inch android phones and [TS]

  tablets and curved oled tvs and it all just blurs together and then you've got [TS]

  a schlep from one end to the other and it's got to be back-breaking if you you [TS]

  know can't pick and choose where you go [TS]

  one of the things we we struggled with was we shot a video [TS]

  Mike Mike put on this exoskeleton suit that's designed to age you to like a [TS]

  hundred years old or something like that and do various things had like VR [TS]

  goggles built in and and things that would make your muscles that basically [TS]

  make your body move more slowly and they would affect your vision and all this [TS]

  stuff and we took this video of him in the suit and then we realized that we [TS]

  literally didn't have the ability to upload the video to dropbox like we like [TS]

  what I'm not going to tether on my cell phone and do it our hotel Wi-Fi sucks we [TS]

  couldn't do it's like okay we almost have to go to a starbucks and I wonder [TS]

  if the press room had a free ethernet connection we didn't actually go in the [TS]

  press room because it it seemed like it was kind of a dump but that actually [TS]

  that would have solved our problem but it's just stuff like that where you're [TS]

  just completely out of your element but it's amazing like you go [TS]

  one of the things we did is we scrape the list of exhibitors and just did some [TS]

  very basic text analysis to see if there's any anything interesting we [TS]

  could find one thing that was was cool was over 500 of the companies had the [TS]

  word shen zhen in the title of the company huh that there are miles and [TS]

  miles and miles of tiny booths with one or two people from from shenzhen from [TS]

  China who come to America once a year and there they are and i got a great [TS]

  little tour from a you know a little old lady of her line of perfect GoPro [TS]

  knockoffs and you know she's like giving me a demo of these things the same case [TS]

  same size you know looks exactly like a GoPro but it's sixty dollars or [TS]

  something like that and it was she was she saying it looks like a go pro or yes [TS]

  that so she was mentioning the word go pro [TS]

  blah yeah totally like that's the same cases the cover actually one of the [TS]

  booths you price saw this one of the booths that the one of the hoverboard [TS]

  knockoffs was so similar to this one specific a kind of balance board thing [TS]

  that the US Marshals rated it [TS]

  no I don't do this oh yeah I think Bloomberg got tipped off because i think [TS]

  some other sites got tipped off to and they videotaped it and basically the US [TS]

  Marshals rated a booth they confiscated all the product and shut these guys down [TS]

  man [TS]

  yeah yeah it's great i mean there are there a lot of knockoff looking things [TS]

  and i believe the bloomberg article interviewed someone from the the people [TS]

  who put together the show and there you know that they're kind of as long as [TS]

  you're not i forgot what the the kind of limitations are but basically like don't [TS]

  be too fake i think is the is the line so in this case that didn't that didn't [TS]

  work out that's got to be such a surprise to the vendor like I because [TS]

  you know i mean it's like yeah there's the culture of how we value knock off [TS]

  some it's so different between here in China and it's obviously it you know the [TS]

  whole concept of intellectual property isn't really like at an institutional [TS]

  cultural thing over there like there's no way that they would have that had to [TS]

  be a complete surprise because if they would have thought it's even a [TS]

  possibility they will be a dial it back i think so i did it seemed like they [TS]

  were surprised I wasn't there and actually try to look for the booth but I [TS]

  couldn't really find it is in it wasn't really worth putting a lot of effort [TS]

  into but that's the kind of stuff that goes on and but meanwhile there's like [TS]

  forty different drone companies and you know of all shapes and sizes a bunch of [TS]

  a bunch of companies who paid up big bucks for big boots like the size of an [TS]

  intel booth from from China that you know you really haven't heard of unless [TS]

  you're in the TV industry so it was it was really fascinating you realize how [TS]

  insignificant you are in the world when you're at CES like there's just so much [TS]

  stuff you [TS]

  never heard of and there's so many people who are doing stuff that you know [TS]

  is similar to what you're doing but you've never heard of before and you [TS]

  walk around exhausted dehydrated and it's cool i love it it's great fire died [TS]

  rato can you just go can get water [TS]

  I guess I get yeah I i actually I joke about this but like I almost set [TS]

  calendar reminders saying OK drink water right now make sure you have lunch [TS]

  because then it's three o'clock and you have any lunch and you're you know [TS]

  falling asleep i was carrying around a kind bar in my backpack just to make [TS]

  sure that I think he did some protein I'd still be alive [TS]

  I find that true AI do i've developed that the reflexive habit of always be [TS]

  drinking something in Vegas so many yeah that's weird guys on coffee or you know [TS]

  afternoon whenever you wake up but then in the afternoon it's like at any free [TS]

  moment if you have an opportunity to put water in your hand do it and because [TS]

  it's like you've really done [TS]

  it's like in addition to you know the dehydrating effect of alcohol the desert [TS]

  air really is a thing if you're not used to it [TS]

  I mean it really even if you weren't even if you don't drink alcohol I mean [TS]

  you're going to get dried out in Vegas shockingly it was actually raining a [TS]

  couple of days which which was super weird [TS]

  yeah i remember i saw people complete you know and I and it definitely makes [TS]

  everything worse because any temptation to walk is is decreased people actually [TS]

  dry I've been out there when it rained and it's like people that the natives [TS]

  you know the people locals they don't know how to drive in the rain it's it's [TS]

  like just it's not i see obviously it's usually even in the winter you know [TS]

  about freezing but the road get a little wet and people like you're slipping and [TS]

  sliding like they don't even have to drive on roads [TS]

  yeah it was that was weird but it didn't get too bad so I like I a broad umbrella [TS]

  and I didn't have to use it so it was fine it was it was interesting though [TS]

  and I definitely feel like going back I'm just gonna go back next year from [TS]

  the am in the position to I think that like the you know in my advice to you [TS]

  would be you know do you think a little bit ahead of time and plan way ahead [TS]

  like that I booked my hotel in i want to say november and by then like I read [TS]

  every good place was sold out you really have to do it in like august or [TS]

  September whenever they open up reservations just book it and think a [TS]

  little bit ahead of time about what you want what you want to get out of it but [TS]

  really save a lot of time to wing it because there's just going to be stuff [TS]

  that you know either you don't know but until you get there or I'm always [TS]

  confused by just the basic schedule of CES this is the tell me if i'm wrong i [TS]

  think it is the the convention itself the show floor is wednesday thursday [TS]

  friday [TS]

  yeah it and it changes it was different this year though actually it was maybe [TS]

  that's why I'm confused then yeah I think this year it was wednesday [TS]

  thursday friday saturday but I think previous years it was like tuesday [TS]

  wednesday thursday friday i don't know it was definitely a day off this year to [TS]

  go later I think because of the holiday but but everybody who covers it for [TS]

  almost everybody comes it comes a couple days early because there's like pre-show [TS]

  announcements like like there's like the I don't know if they call them keynotes [TS]

  but there's like you know big keynote addresses that happen like this week [TS]

  like this year I like on monday and tuesday there are press conferences and [TS]

  then there are keynotes and their separate i guess i don't remember like [TS]

  Steve Ballmer always did what I was like the sunday night right [TS]

  the car mount yeah the kickoff I don't know like this year there were some [TS]

  things we were going to go on sunday and then I think there may have even been [TS]

  some stuff saturday or at least sunday and we decided to to fly in on monday [TS]

  and then leave friday [TS]

  and we did miss some stuff that happened Monday but tuesday like the show floor [TS]

  is not was not open yet although we got into do a couple meetings they like [TS]

  escorted us in and they were it was crazy like a lot of the booths were were [TS]

  barely have finished like the day before and people are definitely there all [TS]

  night working this setup up and it's absolutely like there's you could you [TS]

  could get killed by a machine any second like they were just lots of stuff going [TS]

  on and then Wednesday is when it was totally open and just chaos like I had a [TS]

  guided tour of the samsung booth but it was really not useful for any of us [TS]

  because there are just so many people standing between you and the [TS]

  refrigerator with the TV on it that you could barely even see it it was just [TS]

  absolute chaos [TS]

  ah and most of that stuff was at the las vegas convention center or is it split [TS]

  like the show floors were literally split between a convention center in the [TS]

  sands split and I I bet there's a some sort of theme to it like that so the [TS]

  basement of the sands has a lot of very small boots and that's actually one of [TS]

  the best things I did was I met up with a couple guys from Kickstarter and they [TS]

  took me on a tour of the little like that the interesting startups that had [TS]

  all either done Kickstarter's or we're going to be doing Kickstarter's and now [TS]

  is actually really cool because there's a bunch of stuff I'd never heard of and [TS]

  it was all pretty good just a lot of garbage everywhere so you have to try to [TS]

  find the good stuff that's the thing that I miss about macworld and macworld [TS]

  was you know and and it's I've said that you know about it i'll say it again next [TS]

  year too but there's a whole reason I never got into the habit of going to CES [TS]

  was that it overlapped with macworld and I went to Macworld and then even when [TS]

  macworld like after like Macworld's multi-year slow demise from being a [TS]

  thing to being literally nothing [TS]

  started with them moving the date around where they moved it to the end of [TS]

  january and then there was the one year where they had a super bowl weekend [TS]

  which was stupid i forget what might it went into februari I think before they [TS]

  finally pulled the plug but even then when it wouldn't overlap it just felt [TS]

  that felt like too much like it felt like I don't want to go to two of these [TS]

  things if I don't have to so I'll just keep going to Macworld but that's what [TS]

  one of the reasons i didn't get a habit of it but one of my favorite things [TS]

  about going to Macworld without question was talking to the little booths the [TS]

  little booths were always way more interesting than the big ones because [TS]

  usually you you get to talk to the actual principles and there would always [TS]

  be you know at least a couple of boots that were like wow I did not even know [TS]

  that was possible type products [TS]

  yeah 11 of them i saw those pretty cool was was a very small booth of a company [TS]

  that makes this clip on camera that just kind of goes on your lapel and it's not [TS]

  recording video all day [TS]

  it's constantly doing image image analysis and recognition and making a [TS]

  text list via API of all the stuff that you've seen that day so [TS]

  wow that's crazy yeah i was very cool i actually have to write it up I i took [TS]

  some photos of it and I'll write up a post about it but you know and it's this [TS]

  is the kind of thing where it's like this is really cool technology [TS]

  this could be a cool product in a couple years or a year or it could be nothing [TS]

  but here these guys are you know they got kind of a you know it an ok looking [TS]

  booth and this really interesting technology that you know it's actually [TS]

  kinda cool like you know and of course with any camera that's always on privacy [TS]

  concerns but you could maybe train it to your LinkedIn account so could tell you [TS]

  who you're looking at a party or something like that [TS]

  I don't know it was interesting and it was one of those things that was like [TS]

  all right this is kind of the value of of coming to a show like this because I [TS]

  never probably would have met these people otherwise [TS]

  it's not like you're standing in the gigantic intel booth not wonder you know [TS]

  wondering what you're doing there so that was pretty cool i saw there was an [TS]

  episode of I mean it's not a new idea but the BBC show sherlock i think it was [TS]

  sherlock but there was like a billionaire magnet bad guys sort of [TS]

  person and he had like heads it had just had regular wire-rim glasses but when [TS]

  they use they showed his first person perspective it would instantly give him [TS]

  a sort of profile of anybody whose face he was looking at you know their name [TS]

  and you know some facts about them and I feel like we're I feel like that is like [TS]

  it's still science fiction but it's very very near-term science fiction like [TS]

  that's going to happen you know within the next decade [TS]

  yeah i mean i kind of i'm always the guy who wants I want the feet of random [TS]

  Instagram photos that I'm in the background of now I do too [TS]

  I'm you know I feel like we as a society and culture of just we're already [TS]

  wrapping our heads around the fact that everything is on camera all the time [TS]

  totally you know and it's you know it's like and some of the people who are [TS]

  adjusting the slowest are the ones who really should be adjusting the quickest [TS]

  you know like the way that when police officers have some kind of incident and [TS]

  it's all caught on tape and you see that it's just absolutely horrible police [TS]

  work [TS]

  that's actually you know to me it's it's helping to make our society better [TS]

  I mean there's obviously trade-offs big trade-offs and there's some definite [TS]

  downsides to the lack of privacy but i think that specifically has been his [TS]

  proven to be very powerful over the last couple years and you know it's what was [TS]

  weird that was looking at up and seeing a guy wearing Google glass for the first [TS]

  time in over a year [TS]

  yeah that was crazy that was a very weird its you do is anybody how many [TS]

  people do you see at CES wearing Google glass because i feel like if there's [TS]

  anywhere left that people are still with pretending that Google glass is going to [TS]

  be a thing it's the CES I saw two in a row and now is it like to in [TS]

  basement of the palms dirt bombs the basement of the sands convention center [TS]

  and that was at the whole show two guys and the one guy was like tall and large [TS]

  and I was just kind of weird but that was less than it seems sometimes in New [TS]

  York you see them when you're walking around over by the google offices but [TS]

  otherwise I haven't seen one in over at least over a year [TS]

  alright let's hold this I saw a more CS stuff to talk about but I mean myself in [TS]

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  is that algorithms can actually do pretty good with this just by putting [TS]

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  the details on the website but they're not really about like trying to [TS]

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  come to read their full disclosure so here's here so you didn't get there til [TS]

  Monday you're saying that's right mind would you do so what did you do on [TS]

  Tuesday Tuesday I tuesday i woke up too early and got breakfast and then we went [TS]

  to this meeting where Mike war the exoskeleton and was how did you set that [TS]

  how did you set that meeting that's one of my worries is that I would go there [TS]

  and without having set anything up and I don't have like this i don't have [TS]

  anybody to set stuff up for me and then get out there and I just you know end up [TS]

  playing blackjack all day see that would be fun i would like to play blackjack [TS]

  with you all day because as we'll discuss in a minute [TS]

  I did not play any blackjack so which is which is not excusable I don't wanna see [TS]

  a dead then again I don't see how that is i know so so here's here's the worst [TS]

  part of CES when you sign up for a press badge your email gets given to all the [TS]

  3000 or whatever 2,000 companies that have signed up to exhibit and you get [TS]

  emails from about half of them [TS]

  I'm not even exaggerating like I this year was smart night I did the gmail [TS]

  thing where you can add a plus sign yeah so i made it you know Dan plus CES @ [TS] so i could filter there are now all filtering into the toilet like I'm [TS]

  not getting the people are still sending emails that are good for them but I'm [TS]

  not seeing any of them so you get your old wino that matrix i just want to just [TS]

  let me hold it is that yeah it instantly popped into my head [TS]

  I mean it it's like if I was a type of dirtbags ran like a prl PR people are [TS]

  dirt bag but if I was about to start sending email [TS]

  those people I would have it right like a little script that takes any gmail [TS]

  address with plus take out the plus you know i mean like it would be so easy to [TS]

  algorithmically filter that out [TS]

  yeah i mean i'm sure some a couple people remarked on that they're like oh [TS]

  clever clever with the plus sign or whatever I mean I get a lot of email [TS]

  from PR people as it is and I'm actually i would say pretty fair about just [TS]

  asking people not to send me certain types of I know I find it so hard i get [TS]

  a convention or conference or something like that I i'm terrible at staying on [TS]

  top of my email on a normal day when I'm at my desk but it's really i always fall [TS]

  behind and so to have have them making it even harder to to just keep an [TS]

  eyeball on what's coming into my email would be would be terrible [TS]

  the problem for me is that I've now been it inbox zero for four years which means [TS]

  all day i'm constantly deleting emails i can I don't let them pile up anymore so [TS]

  anyway so i would get you know invited to everything from like tours to [TS]

  meetings to press conferences and that kind of stuff and I accepted i think [TS]

  five or six of the 10 roughly a thousand that I got and I said and those entities [TS]

  to be clear those came will be for long before the show even started because [TS]

  it's it starts when you actually register with CES like in november or [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  yes ok yeah so you know and and some of them are like party invites the sum of [TS]

  the stuff doesn't come until you know the week before or a couple days before [TS]

  but a lot of the companies are you know trying to set up as many meetings as [TS]

  possible [TS]

  you can also kind of check what what topics you're interested in and I think [TS]

  I was probably a little too excited about checking lots of different topics [TS]

  that I should not have like audio you know you check off audio and then every [TS]

  headphone companies emailing you asking for a meeting and that kind of stuff so [TS]

  i think next year I'll probably be more selective about about that and do even [TS]

  fewer meetings because they're there you know if you need to get a last minute [TS]

  meeting there are pretty much always available this [TS]

  that the stuff that's really cool is going to be kind of hard to access [TS]

  anyway and those are the people who are least likely to set stuff up with you [TS]

  ahead of time unless year you know whatever the verge or something like [TS]

  that you get first dibs on a lot of stuff so yeah I said all that stuff up [TS]

  and so what I said Tuesday you know I had a couple meetings and I had lunch [TS]

  and then i went to a dinner probably and then met up with people [TS]

  Oh tuesday i want your party and probably stayed out late and yeah and [TS]

  that's what i said Rupert Murdoch that was kind of interesting and so where was [TS]

  he he was just walking down the hall the win that's where he stayed so i actually [TS]

  wrote this article so so one thing I didn't know and I thought it was going [TS]

  to be I thought it was gonna be a bigger surprise to people then it turned out to [TS]

  be no one really cared but so Eddy Cue was at CES and you you wrote an article [TS]

  honest yes into any q's at CES speaking at Rupert Murdoch's private mini [TS]

  conference which he holds in his suite [TS]

  every year it's two days and he brings in like a fantastic list of people and [TS]

  it's not for the public or anything it's 4 News Corp and Fox executives and this [TS]

  year the people who were scheduled to present range from the CEO of snapchat [TS]

  to send our from google CEO of Google eddy cue from apple and a bunch just a [TS]

  bunch of other like the guy from a bunch of other really [TS]

  high level of Benedict Devon's from andreessen horowitz some startup people [TS]

  and so that's cool and I you know that's the kind of thing where it's like [TS]

  there's this whole huge CES thing going on meanwhile in rupert murdoch sweet [TS]

  there's like the best you know one of the best conference lineups in the world [TS]

  and it's just for like a handful of top of executives who work for him but [TS]

  that's the kind of thing you can do it see yes because so many of those people [TS]

  are there anyway right [TS]

  although i was interesting because of course [TS]

  sample somewhat famously does not have an official presence at CES my guess is [TS]

  that you know some people from Apple go just to kind of look at stuff that'd be [TS]

  kind of silly not to how I'd i know for a fact that it and even when macworld [TS]

  was a thing and it was coincident that there were people from the product [TS]

  marketing group who I when every year just to do the due diligence of walking [TS]

  around you know and and the question was always whether we know what what they [TS]

  would put on their badge and notify my today just the you-know-what officially [TS]

  go and they have apple on the badge and if people wanted to talk about they do [TS]

  it they just didn't you know that it wasn't real cloak-and-dagger stuff they [TS]

  just you know but they were there to just see what else you know the industry [TS]

  is doing [TS]

  yeah I mean maybe it'd be foolish not to I i think that someone was telling me [TS]

  that they saw a couple Apple people you know this year just walking around but I [TS]

  wasn't there for that but i wouldn't even be surprised if it's actually like [TS]

  multiple teams you know like different yeah you know not even in coordination [TS]

  you know the product marketing people they're just there in general but maybe [TS]

  you know like notebook engineers are there just to look at all the crazy all [TS]

  the crazy notebooks that are you know being put together [TS]

  yeah I would and then you get to be in vegas right and maybe run into rupert [TS]

  murdoch he was you looked at he looked good he was wearing a nice suit and some [TS]

  sneakers walking down this walking down the hallway outside of a party that I [TS]

  was leaving so it was just like in the hotel you mean I got a hallway [TS]

  yes in the wind outside of one of their like nightclub e-type venues huh crazy [TS]

  yeah but I mean today was up this was around I think 11pm or 1010 something [TS]

  p.m. see that's why you go to see yes totally [TS]

  yeah actually i'll never forget one of my when i worked at forbes now almost 10 [TS]

  years ago one of my colleagues wrote an article about actually may have been CES [TS]

  10 years ago where she was randomly at a booth when Bill Gates showed up to look [TS]

  at the booth and what an interesting cool experience that was like can you [TS]

  imagine being the the tiny booth operator and then [TS]

  you like Bill Gates walks up and says hey give me a demo have to find that [TS]

  article I wonder forbes has archives that may be forever work to trade show [TS]

  booth I i don't think so i might when I was a kid my dad I think had a booth [TS]

  there like a part of one at some point for a store he was involved in by I [TS]

  never had to work a booth i did when i worked at bare bones so cool for bbedit [TS]

  and I guess male Smith even at the time but we you know we have a booth at [TS]

  macworld and it is grueling it in sometimes though it's it could be like I [TS]

  don't know it's like three in the afternoon and you've been on your feet [TS]

  since nine and you've been spent making the same pitch over and over again and [TS]

  you know I I repetition has never been good for me I mean not that I'm not good [TS]

  at it but I get bored quickly but then all of a sudden like you you meet [TS]

  somebody and somebody will tell you this amazing story of how like bbedit you [TS]

  know save their website or something like that they take and they just want [TS]

  to thank you and you're just like oh my god that's amazing made my day [TS]

  you know let me go get it let me go get rich single and you can tell it to his [TS]

  face [TS]

  that's great but boy it is hard it is really hard and you can just see it [TS]

  right now and it's just it's just a funny thing to have on under my belt is [TS]

  experienced and now whenever i'm at a trade show and walk around I'd have the [TS]

  sympathy for every single person doing those you know working those boots that [TS]

  I wouldn't have had otherwise [TS]

  yeah it's grueling and you have like a tradeshow approved vendors that you have [TS]

  to do everything with and you know good luck this to you know 20-minute line for [TS]

  the bathroom and yeah so what else what else did you do at CES alli and I hung [TS]

  out with the with walt mossberg that was that was a highlight [TS]

  I saw that that's what your eye I saw thing me I saw a periscope this is a [TS]

  visit my perspective it's oh I think it might have been [TS]

  like maybe like 1230 at night east coast time so would have been maybe like 930 [TS]

  Vegas that sound about right [TS]

  I think so and I saw somebody who I follow on twitter from the verge tweeted [TS]

  a link to periscope that their periscoping from inside a blinged-out [TS]

  crazy blinged-out limo that new life had rented for some and I thought I got to [TS]

  see this because i don't know you know I know what a regular lemon looks like I [TS]

  got to see what like a special you know call attention to it looks like so i put [TS]

  the periscope on and it's a meal I and a couple of other people i knew from the [TS]

  verge and the inside of this limo it really was like it was like all that [TS]

  leftover neon from Old Las Vegas was all inside this lemma basically and then it [TS]

  the periscope is painting around and here's verge staffers and i was just [TS]

  about ready to do not disconnect because it's a boy and then I see a guy and I [TS]

  was like holy shit that one guy looks like dan frommer and I was like who is [TS]

  that and they're like and we've got damn from quartz and michael lee shit is dan [TS]

  from where [TS]

  and I was like wow now it's like in right now i have a friend in the limo [TS]

  now i'm interested and I noticed it seemed to me like everybody was a little [TS]

  tipsy and you were like this totally normal and now and then it got crazier [TS]

  because then it got to the far side of this [TS]

  it was a truly massive limo and then all of a sudden Walt Mossberg and Kara [TS]

  Swisher were in there [TS]

  yeah they were riding in the backseat and I was fascinated that what you guys [TS]

  doing you guys were on your way from like one into the strip to the other we [TS]

  were all at a dinner that they have usually the last night or what you know [TS]

  one of the last night's every year kind of a press dinner and I guess we were [TS]

  all going to the cosmopolitan where there was a Twitter Spotify party and [TS]

  rather than taking four cabs Neil I think threw his hands up and said let's [TS]

  get a little so I just went in the limo and yeah that was it i mean it wasn't so [TS]

  I don't think it was pre-planned or anything just happened was funny though [TS]

  I did but it's the sort of thing that happens we like what you see on a pair [TS]

  scope when they when they put the camera in your face well I never know what to [TS]

  say i never would I don't want to set it was here it was funny though i am i'm [TS]

  like they were like 300 people watching [TS]

  I enjoy periscope I but I'm it requires a certain personality that I i I'm not [TS]

  in possession of to really be good at it [TS]

  I haven't done i don't think i've ever done one the other problem I have with [TS]

  it at last time I tried using it i think i tried using it when the Pope was in [TS]

  town here in philly and I was doing some periscopes walking around at the crazy [TS]

  ways that they shut down it enormous major thoroughfares in philly which [TS]

  created this [TS]

  it was awesome it but it's that you had these like 6-7 lane streets that were [TS]

  entirely free of cars not even like parked cars [TS]

  it was great but the problem for me is I've got so many Twitter followers that [TS]

  I easily overflow the limits of periscope even you know just for [TS]

  something like that huh [TS]

  did you uh did you recently joined snapchat I did that was me that was you [TS]

  yeah okay I was like that's weird i could we do you understand snapchat now [TS]

  know and someone was was in this I'm not that old but I sound like it i mean it's [TS]

  someone was throwing it to me the other day and i have not i don't think i've [TS]

  ever posted anything because I just don't really know what to post or or how [TS]

  I guess that the whole idea is that it's kind of very raw uncut like a [TS]

  spur-of-the-moment life through your eyes [TS]

  whereas i'm more of a retouch edit like frame the perfect since you know i i'd [TS]

  say more of an Instagram person than a snapchat person II me 2i my [TS]

  understanding of snapchat previously was that it was like texting service where [TS]

  everything was ephemeral and nothing gets saved and everybody la you can send [TS]

  dick pics but people did use it for that but then like teenagers could use it and [TS]

  send like love notes to each other and know that there are going to be [TS]

  disappeared by the next day and that I that made sense to me and I felt like I [TS]

  understand what this product does and i'm not a teenager anymore I've no I [TS]

  have no need for it so I didn't know it but then I've heard now it's more like a [TS]

  social network and I see what turned me on to it was doing it you know Gary [TS]

  Vaynerchuk is yes I gary vaynerchuk has been raving about it lately and he's [TS]

  been saying that he hasn't been this excited about something since Twitter [TS]

  circuit 2007 and he really what I do remember that's my first met Gary and [TS]

  gary was huge on twitter and like 2006-2007 said this thing is going to [TS]

  blow up it's going to be huge everybody's going to be on Twitter and [TS]

  he was right and so that him saying that this is how he feels about snapchat made [TS]

  me think why I should sign up for this and see if I can figure it out and so I [TS]

  did and there's a part of the process where it's like to want to state you [TS]

  know notified you know here's people you know if from your address book you want [TS]

  to follow them and I did and you're you're not the first person who's asked [TS]

  is this really you look because it i guess it seems a little surprising that [TS]

  i would sign up for snapchat well is also under the name of the site and not [TS]

  as is your name [TS]

  oh right and that was because you might be a little late to get the Gruber name [TS]

  on [TS]

  yeah I couldn't get I couldn't get it and all the variations on grouper [TS]

  weren't there and i also had the at the notion that if i do if it does become a [TS]

  thing [TS]

  maybe it would be more of a you know daring fireball thing that a personal [TS]

  thing [TS]

  yeah actually would not be a you know it's kind of like a periscope in the [TS]

  same way it's like here's a kind of unedited view of of life maybe you know [TS]

  from the WWDC press bullpen right like that yeah that's cool but I didn't even [TS]

  get the right during fireball name either right oh really i think i was [TS]

  like i had to put like a dash in it or something I don't know because some I [TS]

  don't know who the shitbag is but some some jerk has daring fireball like that [TS]

  can't possibly be legit however it is stolen from me [TS]

  well did you see on peach reviews peach yet [TS]

  yeah i'm on the peach i'm on the peach someone has a casey johnson got p marker [TS]

  so she's [TS]

  picking it up is she really yeah she masquerading as as i don't know i think [TS]

  just the username and I actually haven't looked at it in a couple days so the [TS]

  peach is really weird [TS]

  I think I mean I'll so what happened it for anybody who missed this and trust me [TS]

  if you did you'd you're not really missing anything [TS]

  it was like over the weekend i think it was over the weekend but it within the [TS]

  last few days [TS]

  all of a sudden everybody on twitter is talking about a new social network [TS]

  called peach and in fact the fact that i just tried to get my name on snapchat [TS]

  couldn't I i do have this habit where if I hear the new social network even if I [TS]

  think there's a very low chance i want to do it I'll quick sign up to try to [TS]

  get a username that I want and so I signed up for this peach and it's as [TS]

  best as i can figure out it [TS]

  number one I don't quite get it but as best as i can figure out is it sort of [TS]

  like Twitter except that instead of getting a timeline you have to go to [TS]

  each single prayer every single person you follow individually to see what [TS]

  they're up to and it it's a poor idea for social network implemented in a very [TS]

  poorly made and designed app like the buttons and the app don't you you tap [TS]

  the button inning [TS]

  there's no visual indication that you've tapped it there's no highlight and and [TS]

  to make it even worse nothing happens sometimes [TS]

  and then you tap it again and it's gone because whatever it is that you tap to [TS]

  do before it took three seconds and then it no one away to very very shitty app [TS]

  if I interesting it's I mean it's actually you know as Twitter starts to [TS]

  add more don't know what you'd call them formats or something media types to [TS]

  Twitter this is kind of like you know going a giant leap ahead of that because [TS]

  you can make drawings you can make animations you can add photos but the [TS]

  timeline is weird it's not a timeline of post-its a timeline of people so what [TS]

  one of the more interesting analysis i read basically said you know you're [TS]

  you're incentivized to just post as much as possible because then you'll always [TS]

  be at the top of the timeline [TS]

  and you know you won't be spamming people in the sense that CC 20 of your [TS]

  posts in a row but you know you'll always be the person at the top of the [TS]

  timeline and that might get annoying [TS]

  I don't know it's a I don't think it's we're talking about much more now let's [TS]

  not as with any new social network most of the posts on that most but many of [TS]

  the posts are about peach itself [TS]

  yeah so we'll see if it gets beyond that it what's interesting about it is that [TS]

  it's made by one of the people who made it is the guy who made vine so that's [TS]

  the only reason it got any kind of traction because vine is a real thing [TS]

  and there's real people who were you know using it happily and it's it you [TS]

  know but i don't think this is a fine all right unless it they somehow [TS]

  quote-unquote pivot invent a new something new that you can do with this [TS]

  that's different than what this is [TS]

  yeah it's always dangerous to say like there's been too many of there's been [TS]

  too many social networks because i'm sure someone said they were too many [TS]

  search engines right before Google came out so you know who knows what's [TS]

  actually going to happen but it seems like this is one of those things where [TS]

  it's just not different enough to really justify putting too much time and effort [TS]

  into maybe it'll catch on amongst um like path was huge in singapore [TS]

  something or oh yeah [TS]

  indonesia or wherever around but yeah we'll start talking about peach now [TS]

  yeah alright well we'll stop talking about peach and start talking about our [TS]

  next sponsor and it's our good friends at Squarespace you guys r square space [TS]

  it's the all-in-one service that lets you handles everything you need to have [TS]

  your own website they do the hosting they have the templates that you can use [TS]

  to start you just start with a website that is gorgeous but and they have [TS]

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  an online store they have a whole bunch of store designs to choose from if [TS]

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  it's really really easy and it is so far beyond any kind of website even if [TS]

  you're thinking that you're going to have to design our program from scratch [TS]

  you know that old-fashioned traditional way than the stick shift way if you will [TS]

  the manual transmission where you're writing the code and designing and doing [TS]

  the HTML or maybe the programming you really ought to think about do trying it [TS]

  first with squarespace even if you can think of it as a prototype and I for a [TS]

  lot of different types of sites you'd be very surprised just how far you can go [TS]

  and you may not need to build a website you really create can just use [TS]

  Squarespace i was actually looking around with it recently I actually [TS]

  because i thought you know these guys sponsored the show all the time and I [TS]

  haven't looked at it in a while and i know they had a major new version last [TS]

  weekend so i tried building just not just spent like an hour building like a [TS]

  little store design and I was blown away by somehow how much improved it is from [TS]

  the way Squarespace used to be just how much more it feels like you're working [TS]

  in even though you're in a browser doing all this stuff it really feels like [TS]

  you're in like it an app like a design app doing these things really really [TS]

  impressive [TS]

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  up and you want to keep the site and keep it going [TS]

  just remember the offer code grouper my last name GRU ber and you will get ten [TS]

  percent off your first purchase that could be a lot of dough because if you [TS]

  pay for a whole year at a time the 10-percent can apply right to that so my [TS]

  thanks to Squarespace build it beautiful [TS]

  one more thing I want to say about ces now now having been twice all the [TS]

  internet you know this was a different apple that back then was it was smaller [TS]

  and you know still I would say maybe a little more mysterious but all the [TS]

  so-called rumors and like calls for Apple to headline CES and all that stuff [TS]

  that that was just completely idiotic like even more even now more in [TS]

  hindsight than it then it seemed that like there's no way that Apple is going [TS]

  to waste their time trying to [TS]

  like have any sort of signal among the noise at CES there's absolutely no [TS]

  reason for do for them to do that and just like even halfway believing that [TS]

  that that could have happened back then just seems completely foolish now i miss [TS]

  macworld and I really do in its heyday was great and it was for exactly what [TS]

  you said though it's that it was away the main reason was just the fact that [TS]

  everybody who covered APPL or worked in apple related things was all in san [TS]

  francisco at the exact same time which is great and then secondarily it was [TS]

  great it was actually great so every year and I'd find one or two things two [TS]

  new companies of making products that it you know I didn't know otherwise and [TS]

  even in the Internet era when that became a lot easier to find you know [TS]

  little companies that are from oddball locations around the world it's still [TS]

  always happen but I totally understand why apple pulled the plug on their [TS]

  involvement in Macworld which was way less involved than would have been if [TS]

  they gone to CES right because macworld especially San Francisco one which was [TS]

  the last show was local to them and it the entire show revolved around their [TS]

  ecosystem but I totally understand why they got away from it [TS]

  yeah i mean i wouldn't be surprised if like someone took a meeting with someone [TS]

  from cea or whatever and and you know heard them out but there's just no you [TS]

  know Apple can command as much attention as it as it gets on its own why would it [TS]

  why would participate in something that's going to be super noisy and not [TS]

  focused [TS]

  yeah and it in the thing and the Apple i think actually was upfront about this i [TS]

  don't i think when they stopped the day you know publicly said we're not does [TS]

  the last time we're going to do a macworld keynote it was the year that [TS]

  it was the year when Steve Jobs fell ill again and ended up going on a medical [TS]

  leave and he you know he did they announce like his medical leave [TS]

  I forget it was like december january but they said that you know very messily [TS]

  here is always have it was handled very poorly probably because of steve you [TS]

  know that it was his desire for pot for privacy was in direct conflict with the [TS]

  companies need to you know they they they were giving a keynote at macworld [TS]

  expo in early January and be you know that they have certain public [TS]

  obligations regarding the executive leadership it was all very messy [TS]

  although you know obviously it's moot point now but i remember though that the [TS]

  $YEAR it was announced that eh Phil Schiller will be giving the keynote at [TS]

  macworld next month and be this will be the last keynote apple ever gives in [TS]

  Macworld Expo so they announced that before the macworld expo which was in [TS]

  some some people took that as sort of a dick move because it kind of did cast a [TS]

  few nariyal feel to the whole thing because I gave me I mean they were you [TS]

  know they still had at least two more mad world after that but everybody knew [TS]

  at this point that it was going to be a a greatly diminished back world without [TS]

  Apple but on the other hand I kind of think I don't know that it was a dick [TS]

  move [TS]

  pronouncing that because i think it gave everybody a chance to soak it up and it [TS]

  may be gave people who were like a maybe i'll go maybe I'll not go it it [TS]

  motivated them to ya better go [TS]

  yeah that was the only year I went and it was it was really cool to be able to [TS]

  see it once anything else from CES I don't think so I mean you know i could [TS]

  go on forever it was was really interesting [TS]

  it was fun it was exhausting and next year you're coming so we can so someone [TS]

  will play blackjack with me i can't really complain about how do you not [TS]

  find time for because it would be like 2am and I hadn't you know it's like I [TS]

  guess I should go to sleep see you because the people are you know the [TS]

  people i was with the either just want to keep drinking or [TS]

  I don't know I actually don't know and there's like some I think it started [TS]

  ironically but there's like a lot of the tech writers play Pai Gow Poker which I [TS]

  also didn't get to play we were going to and then I got separated from that group [TS]

  and I don't know if they ever did or not but anyway next year see that I I'm [TS]

  starting to get a sense of how this could happen and why it's inexplicable [TS]

  to me how you can have like a four-day trip to vegas and not into playing [TS]

  blackjack and it sounds to me look and i know you i think this is probably too it [TS]

  seems to me that the difference is that you have at least a lick of common sense [TS]

  i don't know how i don't know i was ya know I i would have liked to it in like [TS]

  last year's psychologist at the last night and then the last night it was [TS]

  like 1am and I I couldn't even put a hundred bucks on the cubs to win the [TS]

  World Series last year because I ran out of time before the sportsbook close [TS]

  oh did you get in this year no are they not taken not taken yet i don't know i'm [TS]

  sure they're taking them it's there i don't know i guess they probably could [TS]

  win this year I didn't think they were gonna when I didn't think they were [TS]

  going to be even close last year so how they're going to be I did together gonna [TS]

  be good they can be good [TS]

  are they gonna be the National League favorites maybe could be because it's [TS]

  going to the Cardinals around worse Cardinals have gotten more and the Mets [TS]

  come on the Mets that was a fluke have gotten worse already the Mets have [TS]

  already lost lost talent and I don't think they're going to science espetus [TS]

  they did they mention have pitching and that's it and then the Dodgers are in [TS]

  turmoil right and nobody did I don't think anybody knows what's gonna happen [TS]

  with the doctors and they're probably worse because they they lost [TS]

  what's-his-name the picture [TS]

  oh what's his name the guy who used to be on the Royals yeah i forgot [TS]

  so anyway I think your cubbies are going to be I don't think you're going to get [TS]

  good odds just keep your hair when yeah that's the thing [TS]

  this could be the year where you get your you get your Cubs win the world [TS]

  series ticket and you end up winning like six hundred dollars on a hundred [TS]

  dollar bet not even i think it's like $MONEY for 21 or something i don't know [TS]

  i think last year with 721 that's how is that right [TS]

  it seems like even when the Cubs have talent the Cubs oughta have to be like [TS]

  boobs [TS]

  yeah they're the cops they're gonna be like a there the Cubs discount on that [TS]

  you have ticket in the same way with with the Yankees that even when the [TS]

  Yankees that look like they're not a good but you know they don't really have [TS]

  it that the yankees still should only be like a 2-1 every year even if they have [TS]

  no chance because I Yankees like you shouldn't really you should not be able [TS]

  to make a lot of money by betting on the Yankees 2-1 on series now that's [TS]

  practically cheating right that's why I love him that's like betting on the [TS]

  house but basically yeah so anyway basic just a bit you go that you go to see as [TS]

  you go two days earlier so because you want to hit these the keynotes and that [TS]

  the announcements and then you book two days a week you stayed there for two [TS]

  days to do the show for can you do the whole show floor in two days you'll [TS]

  never get you'll never do the whole thing you have to pick and choose we [TS]

  even we didn't get to talking about more than one tiny portion of it there's the [TS]

  whole convention center which is like the North Central and South halls each [TS]

  of which have multiple zones and then there's the Westgate to which is [TS]

  something else I don't even know i have anything go to the Westgate don't know [TS]

  that that's something else like next door [TS]

  I've seen the sign I don't even know what it is though is it like a hotel [TS]

  cocina [TS]

  yeah I think it's kind of a junkie casino hotel with its own convention [TS]

  center and part of CES is it there [TS]

  yeah i think it's so crazy i got it i'm going next year [TS]

  yeah you should I should look let's do it all right stay somewhere nice though [TS]

  well I only state the win oh wow all right there might be a price to present [TS]

  my feet yeah when I looked well when I looked at it had sold out but I think [TS]

  before that it lets I will figure out how to do this early so [TS]

  we don't get screwed but yeah I wonder what that I know that they sell i know [TS]

  that the wynn and encore sellout because they're a they're the best place on the [TS]

  strip and B it's at [TS]

  I don't well there's no ideal location but it's about as close to ideal as you [TS]

  can get because it's right across the street from the venetian and palazzo [TS]

  which is the way that the the that's the casino that's connected to the sands [TS]

  convention center [TS]

  yes it's so my guess is that the the you know the first like my hotels the first [TS]

  night with was fifty dollars in the second the third and fourth minus 4 350 [TS]

  dollars [TS]

  wow yeah it's like a huge like just the difference between pre CES and we're [TS]

  doing nothing where did you stay [TS]

  well I stayed ahead to stay at the flamingo oh that's right you told me [TS]

  that you didn't tell me that right and the filming go ahead . not that great [TS]

  although not a good location [TS]

  it's yeah it was well located it's on the monorail so that was fine it was [TS]

  fine i mean i stayed in the new tower and it was fine but hey maybe next year [TS]

  by CS will have the the Las Vegas city notes so you'll know where to where to [TS]

  actually hang out [TS]

  yeah I know where to hang out now you don't want to hang it like I actually [TS]

  probably right the Las Vegas city nuts [TS]

  did you see I relaunched it now when you've been offline a lot lately yeah if [TS]

  you go to City notes that co you know as I think I you know talked about on the [TS]

  show before but yet the idea was that I was making these apps where if you go if [TS]

  you're traveling to a city and you just want a short list of like the cool stuff [TS]

  for your cool friend would take you and not the lame touristy stuff or like you [TS]

  know fancy silly stuff that i would just have this list for you and and I did a [TS]

  new york one and had a San Francisco one and these were iphone apps that i was [TS]

  selling in the app store and it was you know long story short it was cumbersome [TS]

  to make and an update these apps as apps and it was also not really you know the [TS]

  paid app model has as you know is not a great business model for for certain [TS]

  types of [TS]

  of content so it's a website now it's city notes . co i have a Tokyo and Paris [TS]

  list up there and if you're going to those cities check them out and i'm [TS]

  working on new york next and then probably los angeles and you know it's [TS]

  working as a website it's like free for me to update and keep current and we'll [TS]

  see what happens but interesting that's my little side project yeah I'm you know [TS]

  we'll see what we'll see what happens with it but I just relaunched about a [TS]

  month ago and so far so good [TS]

  excellent what else is going on about this is one time with this el chapo haha [TS]

  did I ever read the sean penn thing yet did you [TS]

  I did but I didn't finish it and it's it's like the stupidest thing that I [TS]

  couldn't remember which device i was reading it on so I haven't gotten back [TS]

  to it but i loved it i thought it was fantastic i really really liked it i'm [TS]

  going to read it and I think I think it's one of the best pieces written by a [TS]

  non writer and there's it's funny it seems like maybe Rolling Stone aye i'm [TS]

  not sure what the backstory is and I don't know how much of this is if it's [TS]

  out there and I just don't know because I didn't finish the article yet like he [TS]

  visited him in October and the articles coming out now but it it seems like [TS]

  maybe they felt like their hand was pressed when the authorities took out [TS]

  Chapo back into custody and they wanted to publish it but it it's clearly a very [TS]

  light editing pass it you know in terms of it it doesn't read like your typical [TS]

  Rolling Stone feature it a lot of Sean Penn's personality is is infused in the [TS]

  pros and I think he did a hell of a job there's is certain touches that as a [TS]

  writer like felt like a little over-the-top like it's a little awkward [TS]

  in certain phrasing but for the most part though I really enjoy the visceral [TS]

  nature nature of the pros I i think is just a tremendous read and it's just [TS]

  such a crazy idea you know it i I'm kind of fascinated by sean penn you know he [TS]

  just does things that other people that just never occurs of to do right [TS]

  remember like with the [TS]

  with the hurricane and in New Orleans was that hurricane what was it called [TS]

  Katrina Katrina there's like [TS]

  Katrina Katrina there's like [TS]

  there's Sean Penn like in a rowboat saving people you know getting off the [TS]

  roofs you know like what the hell Sean Penn doing on a rowboat into New Orleans [TS]

  he added [TS]

  how did he get there how do you get to a flooded city if you don't live there [TS]

  you know what song he's he just went and you know at what a crazy idea to have is [TS]

  I'm gonna go meet the most notorious drug kingpin in the world today and [TS]

  write a story about it [TS]

  yeah and a lot of the criticism has been that that El Chapo chapel or chop oh [TS]

  well I guess in in in Spanish and say Chapo el trapo that he was given [TS]

  editorial control essentially that he was allowed to you know make changes or [TS]

  at least reject the it was submitted it with the agreement was a wolf will [TS]

  submit to you you know a manuscript if you have objections we will take your [TS]

  objections right so a lot of people are saying and and whatever they said that [TS]

  he didn't make any changes or something like yeah but a lot of people are [TS]

  criticizing that as you know essentially a you know a press release from El Chapo [TS]

  written by sean penn submitted to rolling stone which is hit you know [TS]

  historically a journalistic organization and they just go and run it i don't know [TS]

  i think it's i think it's that's kind of the time we're in for a lot of places [TS]

  are just publishing directly on medium and or on their websites or something [TS]

  like that if you look at elon musk e does the same thing so I don't you know [TS]

  I it would be a tough call for the editor of rolling stone [TS]

  I think that if I was a publisher Rolling Stone I'd be very very excited [TS]

  about this because it's certainly gotten them a lot of attention and pray a lot [TS]

  of web traffic and but it's interesting like to what do you do you allow that [TS]

  what are you here's my take my eye and this would really what I wanted to talk [TS]

  about it was the debt journalistic and I don't have a problem with it because [TS]

  right up front that's how the article starts is in init Alex like it's an [TS]

  editor's note it explains that situation entirely which is that part of the deal [TS]

  for this entire thing before it started was an agreement that the article would [TS]

  be submitted to a chop those people [TS]

  for their approval and it was and they didn't make any changes and so to me [TS]

  that the the what makes it okay is the fact that they disclose that been very [TS]

  clear language right up front and that they secure like so the our Chapel [TS]

  people said we want to approve the article and I think the Rolling Stone [TS]

  people said okay we'll do it but we're going we were going to explain what was [TS]

  approved [TS]

  you know we're gonna explain that this deal was in place and we're going to say [TS]

  whether or not you changed anything [TS]

  and so to me obviously that's less than ideal would be great if the El Chapo [TS]

  people just said you can write whatever you want but obviously they weren't [TS]

  gonna let that happen and so yeah I the world is a better place that this [TS]

  article exist then if it didn't like it when it's not like they had the option [TS]

  to do it without that arrangement right fact that it was disclosed to me makes [TS]

  it acceptable like I think the people who are objecting to it on a pc like [TS]

  it's feeling a certain purity test are being a lot of them are jealous that [TS]

  they have story i think yeah i mean the truth about this there are no rules it's [TS]

  not like they're yeah or something that says that you know every every article [TS]

  published anywhere must be vetted by something or something like that I mean [TS]

  that [TS]

  so whatever I if if you're jealous that your publication did not get the scoop [TS]

  on El Chapo from sean penn I guess that sucks but it is interesting i think it's [TS]

  i think it's cool I i want to read it i saved it [TS]

  i'm going to read it I i like the idea of getting kinda raw writing from [TS]

  non-traditional writers I think that's really that is that to me is exactly [TS]

  what it feels like [TS]

  and in terms of well the the argument that this could just be a press release [TS]

  from El Chapo obviously that's a risk I mean but you just read the article with [TS]

  an open mind and judge for yourself and I having read most of the article would [TS]

  say it's definitely not the case it doesn't whitewash over anything it's [TS]

  really just sort of a first-person narrative you are there this is what [TS]

  it's like to try to get to this guy story at to me it was just a good read [TS]

  but I think you have to keep an open mind on something like that [TS]

  and i also think that there's a certain sense sanctimonious among the [TS]

  professional journalists who like object to this on you know this is not the way [TS]

  it's done by serious publications uh is that those publications that have those [TS]

  rules like if I'm sure a lot of them don't really do have it codified you [TS]

  know like 60 minutes does not allow the sources of us show to see it before it [TS]

  airs that's fine that's you know that find have rules like that and it [TS]

  certainly does protect you from you know accusations that your your currying [TS]

  favor with your subjects or something but those publications obviously they [TS]

  miss out on an awful lot of stuff that they're that these you know these rules [TS]

  and traditions keep them from from getting exactly and self-publishing you [TS]

  said like how much stuff is going on medium these days the the world where a [TS]

  you know a in the old days they they could they could take a stance like that [TS]

  and the only people who can really get a story out we're the ones who owned a [TS]

  printing press and had you know million or two million circulation newspaper [TS]

  magazine [TS]

  ah you don't need that anymore right so anybody can anybody can handle two or [TS]

  three million people reading their site if they publish it on wordpress or [TS]

  medium or something like that and so they don't control you know they don't [TS]

  control the means of distribution anymore and they're sort of holding on [TS]

  LOL you know get me to the fainting couch they let the subject pre-approved [TS]

  the story it is this is you know I've got the vapors somebody get the smelling [TS]

  salts ridiculous [TS]

  yes fascinating dave winer actually wrote a good essay about this many many [TS]

  of these same points and and i totally agree I mean listen I went to you know [TS]

  core unquote professional journalism school I mean that's what my undergrad [TS]

  college was and i don't care i think it's great that that people can [TS]

  self-publish now there's there's certain things that I won't do because that's [TS]

  the job i have but that's fine i'd you know as a I think the best thing you can [TS]

  do is be very clear about what happened and what didn't happen it seems like [TS]

  that's what they did here so i right I feel I've and I a dave winer has been [TS]

  thinking about these things since the invention of the web in the nineties and [TS]

  he's a really adding is really interesting perspective on this stuff [TS]

  and I think it is to make a long story short I think that institutional [TS]

  journalism the capital j journalism like you said like going to actual journalism [TS]

  school and working at it at a long-standing you know traditional [TS]

  publication they've made things more complicated than it really is they've [TS]

  set up this this like a written and or unwritten list of rules of how it's done [TS]

  whereas the truth of it is it lowercase J journalism that anybody can can [TS]

  conduct is to me it's fundamentally about getting the truth out there [TS]

  whether it's true facts or whether it's like in a lot of my writing truly what I [TS]

  believe and think my opinion my honest opinion about how things are going [TS]

  that's what it's all about and that's it and so part of the truth could be like [TS]

  writing a disclaimer that says the subject of this story had the following [TS]

  demands and that's the truth the truth is we had this arrangement and now you [TS]

  know it [TS]

  yeah let's be let's be honest like the people with all the rules get stuff [TS]

  wrong all the time too so exactly it's not like they lead to perfection right [TS]

  and you know and like I love the New York Times New York Times is one of my [TS]

  favorite newspapers are it is my favourite newspaper and its source that [TS]

  i read i read something in the new york times L every single day but you know [TS]

  and they they exemplify that sort of traditional journalism and they've had [TS]

  some absolutely terrible things in the last few decades you know with the judy [TS]

  miller her reporting on the lead up to the Iraq war and it was the guy they had [TS]

  the serial fabulous know Jason hmm well whatever his name is GN you know Jason [TS]

  Bourne now it was a jys on2 alright [TS]

  Jaison Blair yeah Jayson Blair so they had a reporter on the staff who it turns [TS]

  out had cereal e5 [TS]

  located news reports I you know again those rules are not a protection against [TS]

  things like that going wrong and fundamentally in both of those cases the [TS]

  problem is that it wasn't the truth that was coming out you know what judy miller [TS]

  was reporting from our sources in Iraq was not the truth and that led to [TS]

  disasters you know circumstances and the Jayson Blair stuff it didn't really [TS]

  leave any kind of disaster like the iraq war but the whole problem is that it [TS]

  greatly diluted the credibility of if it's printed in The New York Times it's [TS]

  true and then all those david pogue reviews i misspoke [TS]

  well he's I don't see his stuff anymore I don't it occurred i was just talking [TS]

  to somebody about that that I know he's still doing this thing at yahoo i just [TS]

  saw him recently 20 i saw in New York when I was getting the my ipad pro [TS]

  review unit he must have been cool it must have been like right before me but [TS]

  I was going into a hotel while he was coming out so he stand still . but i [TS]

  don't know why i don't know what it is there's some kind of you know like tech [TS]

  memes search optimization strategy that the Yahoo people aren't doing because i [TS]

  don't see his stuff i don't know what I don't know why that is [TS]

  yeah i don't know like now that mossberg is you know not at the journal and is [TS]

  writing for rico and the virgin stuff i still see mossberg reviews you know they [TS]

  think they percolate into my peripheral vision and it's like Oh open a tab or as [TS]

  pokes don't I somehow wound up not without any David Polk tabs [TS]

  yeah same maybe just needs to tweet more [TS]

  yeah maybe i don't know let's take a blue one last break and thank our third [TS]

  and final sponsor of the day and it's our good friends at igloo you guys know [TS]

  what an Internet is internet is the thing that your company has for internal [TS]

  communication that nobody ever looks at our updates [TS]

  igloo is an internet you will actually like because it doesn't look like it was [TS]

  designed in the late nineties because it wasn't it really just been designed in [TS]

  the last few years and it is entirely designed around the modern concepts of [TS]

  how the web should work everything it works on all devices it scales from your [TS]

  phone to your tablet to desktop and it has features that are modern things like [TS]

  a micro blog so you could have for your internal team a little twitter-like [TS]

  thing that's private on your internet and you can do links and texts and stuff [TS]

  like that but it's entirely private and it's hosted and you can access it [TS]

  anywhere from your phone from the road anything like that all sorts of great [TS]

  features you can have to do is you can manage the to do's calendars so many [TS]

  features and all the features you would want for internal communication on an [TS]

  intranet they've got it [TS]

  so where do you go to find out more and get started with a free trial go to a [TS]

  glue / t TS the initials of the show [TS]

  igloo / tts and you'll get a free trial go check them out if you [TS]

  have any kind of team needs an Internet [TS]

  what else is on units i just want to say that's something I think of a lot is [TS]

  like how to get your stuff noticed it's really interesting it's almost hard to [TS]

  predict who's going to read your stuff and it's almost it really doesn't seem [TS]

  to be correlated with how much traffic your site gets even or anything like [TS]

  that it's it's almost a different kind of science and I don't know I don't know [TS]

  there's way to crack it but it's something that fascinates me because [TS]

  sometimes a lot of put a lot of effort into us an article and it just won't it [TS]

  just won't get red or the other way around like you know something that that [TS]

  surprisingly does really well and sometimes it's you know you get lucky [TS]

  with a headline or a link here there but it really is weird how the web how the [TS]

  web works with sharing and just getting red and who's reading it and and sharing [TS]

  it [TS]

  I i have found that and I don't know quite why [TS]

  it would be but to me in my career in the time i've been writing daring [TS]

  fireball one of the epochal moments was you know it it's like like a media or [TS]

  that changed the no-hit and change the world forever was when Google shuttered [TS]

  google reader google reader xi shuttering instantly cut into the [TS]

  traffic that daring fireball get so if I measure i don't think it cut people i [TS]

  honestly don't truly believe that the number of people who read my writing on [TS]

  a regular basis if anything continue to slowly grow but in terms of like [TS]

  pageviews it was instantaneous and permanent and the number of pages i get [TS]

  $MONEY per month is way fewer than from before and it into it correlates are [TS]

  exactly two weren't google pulled the plug on google reader and I think my my [TS]

  guess is that I a lot of awful lot of people are reading fireball used google [TS]

  reader and they subscribe to my site and whenever something new came up they [TS]

  would go to do you know [TS]

  click the thing that would go to my website and i would register you know my [TS]

  analytics and whatever wood and register is that as a hit and anyway long story [TS]

  short I don't get the traffic i used to in terms of page views I've never been [TS]

  happier that I don't have pageview tied advertising because that would have been [TS]

  it really would hit were absolutely would have hurt if I if the advertising [TS]

  daring fireball was correlated to page views and I think it's just that people [TS]

  now more a lot of people check it when it comes to mind instead of checking as [TS]

  soon as you know getting a you know treating google reader is like a [TS]

  notification system of grouper posted something I'm gonna check it out and out [TS]

  the other thing is what i'm getting at is that pre google reader i was very [TS]

  very good at guessing which longer pieces i wrote we're going to have legs [TS]

  which ones weren't and now i don't i'm often i often think wow I think I hit a [TS]

  home run with this one and it doesn't really like the next day might nothing [TS]

  is you know there's no there's no bump and then like last month i wrote i spent [TS]

  an awful lot of time really examining that the the battery case you know like [TS]

  a native an awful i remember and all the lot of the feedback I got was [TS]

  why in the world would you spend that much time on the battery case and the [TS]

  explanation is I think it's because i could write about it i've found it [TS]

  interesting I think there were some very interesting things about it and because [TS]

  it's such a simple little thing you can fully consider it [TS]

  there's you know that you can explore every little alley and crevice and and [TS]

  notion about it but it was one of the most popular things are written in [TS]

  months i think it I think it was more popular than like my iphone success [TS]

  reveal if I just measure by page views and seemingly how many new people did it [TS]

  and I wasn't even the first to write the article ID but somehow that one really [TS]

  took off and I I'm I no longer can predict which ones are going to be [TS]

  popular or not [TS]

  speaking of that article I mean I still can't believe how controversial that [TS]

  battery case was that was well I guess that's what I think that that's why the [TS]

  article was popular i think there really are people really have strong feelings [TS]

  about this i mean you'd also went very deep on it [TS]

  yeah I i think what it is to is that there's an awful lot of people who have [TS]

  this really hate this design they really do I mean they are it it is like you [TS]

  know like bringing up Obama or something you know with your your you know your [TS]

  crazy uncle who's a Donald Trump supporter you know it like it like turns [TS]

  on like a red anger bulb in people's heads and their some people cannot even [TS]

  talk about it in a you know you would you would think that an argument a [TS]

  little debate if you will over the design of a phone battery pack would be [TS]

  the sort of thing that would not make anybody angry but you would be wrong and [TS]

  so the people who dislike it really really dislike it it it it seemly it [TS]

  seems to offend them on an emotional level and on the other side I think what [TS]

  may be made my article popular is that the people who either are intrigued by [TS]

  it or actually like it they can't articulate what why it's it's again [TS]

  almost like an emotional level they're like I don't know it doesn't look bad to [TS]

  me but they're based I think that they've largely been quiet in public [TS]

  because if you try to take that position anything other than this design is an [TS]

  abject failure and maybe Johnny I've is me [TS]

  no we are investigating whether he's losing his mind if you take any position [TS]

  short of that the people who hate it will jump all over you and most people [TS]

  don't want to be jumped all over I me I don't care I the only way to really [TS]

  reminds me of her seeing the Boeing Dreamlifter oh I think so yeah just like [TS]

  the the 747 that they just added a bubble on top of ya to make it big [TS]

  enough so they could carry the fuselage of another of the Dreamliner yeah yeah [TS]

  it's literally like putting a bump on the you know around around the 747 um [TS]

  yeah I think it's funny at I it reminds me a lot of one a new logo comes out and [TS]

  everyone just jumps on it the first day you know this is horrible i can't [TS]

  believe it and then no one cares after that I think that you know and so much [TS]

  of the design of that thing is how it works and i haven't used that I have a [TS]

  6s plus so I don't need a battery pack but brag but actually I didn't need a [TS]

  battery pack at CES oh that's interesting even with the plus yeah cuz [TS]

  the the cell signals so bad there that i'm sure you're using way more battery [TS]

  than you should be [TS]

  and even when even I've never been in CS obviously we can repeat it again but [TS]

  I've been to Vegas many times in vegas as Tory ously bad in my opinions [TS]

  cellular coverage and in addition to the fact that the cellular coverage isn't [TS]

  that great in general that's just talking like if you're outside your door [TS]

  but did the buildings are these caverns and there you know the Faraday cage [TS]

  aspect of you know what it's like when you're covered by you know three tons of [TS]

  concrete and who even knows where there is you know if you're underground or [TS]

  aboveground or where the hell you are you know it could definitely be a [TS]

  challenge [TS]

  yeah I got one of those anchor packs that's supposedly you know big enough to [TS]

  charge a macbook and an ipad and a phone and all kinds of stuff so so i did use [TS]

  that but anyway i don't remember i was but it's you know if if you need a [TS]

  battery pack it seems like it actually works pretty well which is the whole [TS]

  point so i don't know whatever I I really [TS]

  I thought you went deliciously over-the-top on that post but as you say [TS]

  like it's a small enough thing where you can really examine it from every angle [TS]

  and why not like that's the whole point of being a self-publisher on the web is [TS]

  you could do something ridiculous like that I the other thing I'm thinking [TS]

  about and I've i went and bought a bunch of them but I've always been and I even [TS]

  said that their own bottom of my article my solution to battery challenge days is [TS]

  to have a little external battery pack but i like the little ones i like ones [TS]

  that I can put my other pocket and it's almost like I don't even notice it's [TS]

  there and movie makes a bunch of them but I don't honestly considered to be a [TS]

  short coming in their company in that they make too many of them and that one [TS]

  of the things I really really appreciate about Apple is that if you're going to [TS]

  buy an Apple blank and insert any product there you can go in and decide [TS]

  which one to get [TS]

  and it's it's I'm an indecisive person and i will pause but i never have a [TS]

  problem figuring out which macbook to buy I didn't even now at a moment when [TS]

  their lineup is in flux and they still have the old macbook airs in the new [TS]

  macbook one which is underpowered and the macbook pro I know which which mac i [TS]

  want to 30 i want the 13-inch macbook pro that's the best that's the one on 1i [TS]

  I find it so hard to figure out go to movie calm and figure out which battery [TS]

  pack to buy because they not only have different sizes in terms of vital here's [TS]

  the small one that will refill one iphone from you know throughout the day [TS]

  or here's a really big one that you could use to charge an ipad and two [TS]

  phones or something like that but they also have multiple designs they have [TS]

  ones with built-in cables not with built-in cables ones you know that it [TS]

  it's too much they should be the one to their the battery experts they should [TS]

  design the right design and then I don't have to worry about it it's almost like [TS]

  when you go to mophie calm and pick a battery pack for the about you know [TS]

  external battery pack [TS]

  you almost have to design it yourself because you've got to figure out do you [TS]

  want in integrated cables do you want to have separate cables do you care that [TS]

  it's that the battery is going to charge by micro USB but the phone is going to [TS]

  charge by lightning so you have to bring two different things at night [TS]

  does it do pass through charging meaning that at the end of the day when you put [TS]

  up next to your hotel bed do you have one thing to plug in and it'll you know [TS]

  the battery will plug fill your phone first and then fill itself up or you [TS]

  will have to plug two different things and because the battery pack won't [TS]

  charge the phone while it itself is being charged there they have all of [TS]

  those options are there for you to consider from just one company and I [TS]

  kind of it i find it maddening so I feel like I want to write an article and [TS]

  figure out which which is the best one and effectively design it for movie this [TS]

  is your version of Marcos headphone test [TS]

  yes exactly that's exactly it it's my version of Marcos headphone test his [TS]

  battery packs except i'm only going to do movies and speaking of Marco Marco [TS]

  recommended one to me personally can't find it here the other one to check out [TS]

  his anchor kan keer which are some X goggle people who make a very nice [TS]

  battery and charging stuff they're the ones who i also have a 4-port USB [TS]

  charger which I kit which I travel with now so I can do want to bring any of the [TS]

  Apple charging bricks I just bring this and plug in my macbook iPhone Apple [TS]

  watch and can charge something else at the same time [TS]

  all right i'll take a look at the anchor ones but every mark over recommended one [TS]

  to me that he bought at $MONEY at amazon for 24 bucks and it has built-in cables [TS]

  and I'm a built-in cable fan so you don't you know it's just one thing to [TS]

  put your pocket and the son-of-a-bitchin thing broke i do hadn't even gotten past [TS]

  the point where I was just testing how you know like how quickly and it you [TS]

  know how just testing a whole bunch of different these battery packs on my [TS]

  phone every time I let my phone go down I don't use it like three times and I've [TS]

  never even taken it out of the house so it wasn't like it it you know is dropped [TS]

  or anything like that it's just the Lightning port on it just stopped [TS]

  working so i think there's a sort of you get what you pay for aspect in there and [TS]

  i also found it curious that Marco of all people was the one who recommended [TS]

  this coupon to me [TS]

  hmm yeah maybe an imposter [TS]

  I don't remember I don't remember the name of the company was we are here it [TS]

  is it's underneath the pilots should on my desk [TS]

  haha i hate to throw the company under the bus but it's a volt ready VLT re ad [TS]

  Y and if you go to amazon and look at the Volt ready you'll see what I mean [TS]

  about these integrated cables and they're super super thin the cables i [TS]

  mean it's it's so much thinner than the Lightning port itself and I you know [TS]

  don't think that's probably why I broke i think you need like a good thick cable [TS]

  have you installed a new iOS 9.3 yet no I have not [TS]

  I haven't either i'm not i'm not in the beta cycle what's what's different about [TS]

  it [TS]

  the-the-the like fake sherlocked flux or whatever that thing is called efflux so [TS]

  you can get the warmer colors at nighttime so it's easier on your eyes [TS]

  when you're gonna go to sleep [TS]

  interesting and there were all those new features for education like the multiple [TS]

  user mode and that kind of stuff what you assume is going to be part of iOS 10 [TS]

  yeah so everyone can know but it's still it's still just a beta right [TS]

  yes yeah yeah I thought maybe I really out to lunch now I'm kind of done I I i [TS]

  do the beta's of the major new OS over the summer but that's mainly because i [TS]

  know you know my phone two-year-old I'm getting a new phone anyway so if it goes [TS]

  belly-up and it's usually there's like major major features I want to get get [TS]

  ahold of them but for stuff like the minor ones i usually don't do the beta's [TS]

  yeah same [TS]

  have you uh have you been using the apple TV a lot everyday everything [TS]

  have you used the game controller yet yeah I have the game controller uh I [TS]

  don't use it very frequently because I just I just don't play video games [TS]

  yeah i'm not one to two hopefully play games on and I used that the first day I [TS]

  had it and then I haven't used it since the second [TS]

  yeah but that's really just me it's not like that i couldn't find some game [TS]

  that like I found a couple games i really like but I just never occurred to [TS]

  me to play video games [TS]

  yeah me neither i thought i would though I i thought so too i think they have all [TS]

  the things like if i time-traveled back and talked to my like 10 11 12 year old [TS]

  self [TS]

  I think that I would have lots of good news to tell young John Gruber and I [TS]

  think he would be very happy about his future but i think the of all the things [TS]

  he'd be most surprised by is that I would tell them that I you you're going [TS]

  to grow up and have the financial ability and the flexibility in your [TS]

  daily schedule to own and play any video game you want for as long as you want [TS]

  practically speaking and you're not going to [TS]

  yeah I think that pretty much I think that it my like 12 year old self would [TS]

  instantly suspect that whoever this guy who does kind of look like me and it it [TS]

  was credibly well cast to play the person who's going to prank me and tell [TS]

  me that it's me when I'm 42 is obviously full of shit because there's no chance [TS]

  that if i could spend 4-5 hours every night playing cool video games that I [TS]

  wouldn't be doing it i downloaded one for the Apple watch which you know that [TS]

  was another one of those things where they were like oh watch os/2 is going to [TS]

  be you know it's gonna be really helpful for games because they'll be able to run [TS]

  directly on the watch and also be able to use the digital crown as a [TS]

  controlling mechanism and now not fun one of the games was like that almost [TS]

  like a card game type thing and it was just too too weird and the other one was [TS]

  like pong type thing and it was just so jerky that I saw that one is losing [TS]

  because I either got the same one or i downloaded a similar one and I think [TS]

  maybe there might be a month a bunch because if all you have is the crown [TS]

  pong is very obvious concept and it was terrible it was absolutely terrible [TS]

  yeah i did not enjoy that as as as we head into the new Apple watch season and [TS]

  i suspect that they're going to announce it [TS]

  early-ish this year [TS]

  you know I just event that they're supposedly having in march i do think [TS]

  we'll get a new watch [TS]

  and as we you know what do we think of Apple watch I i have to write this piece [TS]

  i do because i have a lot of thoughts on it but the bottom line i think i think [TS]

  it's very clear in hindsight that they should not have had any apps at all for [TS]

  the first Apple watch [TS]

  I mean maybe eventually it will be adapt platform but it's clearly not ready for [TS]

  it yet and slow apps is way worse than no apps in my opinion and to me even now [TS]

  even you know with watch os/2 and and everything it's also still two [TS]

  incredibly inconsistent where if i go to like a weather app on the watch [TS]

  sometimes it will just spin and spin and spin until the screen goes off and if i [TS]

  go to the exact same what app like dark sky or something in take my phone out of [TS]

  my pocket and go to dark sky it works instantly and as all you know all the [TS]

  data I want you know the information about the weather that I was looking for [TS]

  and so what it doesn't take long to be psychologically conditioned to because [TS]

  you don't trust that it's even going to work at all on the watch it doesn't take [TS]

  you very long at all that you just instinctively go for the app on your [TS]

  phone totally especially with that this s success phones being so fast and also [TS]

  the 3d touch shortcuts like it's now you know when the watch launched to me it [TS]

  was really helpful to be able to quickly access something without reaching in my [TS]

  pocket and taking out this giant phone but now the phone is so fast that and [TS]

  the touch ID a unlock is so fast that it actually is faster now again to take my [TS]

  phone out than to try to get anything done on the watch right it's just it's [TS]

  just and that doesn't mean that you know that the watch as a whole is a failure [TS]

  but I feel like what the this first watch was good and interesting for is [TS]

  just the ambien stuff you know the tracking the health you know tracking [TS]

  your stuff doing a workout and whatever you configure to be shown at a glance on [TS]

  your you know without even do anything is you know and that's enough that's [TS]

  enough to make it a product i think that the idea that they had to make had to [TS]

  have apps and the first one was wrong and I think it's kind of funny because [TS]

  they [TS]

  famously had no apps on the first iphone and it turns out that the phone was [TS]

  absolutely it you know probably the best platform for quote unquote apps that [TS]

  mankind has ever created it's like the pinnacle of apps as the central premise [TS]

  of how you're going to use advice didn't even have it for so if the if the phone [TS]

  can get away without it at first I don't see why the watch couldn't have and I [TS]

  think in hindsight the watch should have yeah i wrote kind of a whoever was like [TS]

  7 13 view about a month ago now and that was you know [TS]

  similarly might my high-level conclusion was i still use it everyday and i still [TS]

  really like it a lot but i haven't i'm not using it for any new things than i [TS]

  was at the beginning so basically using it for the same things I did when I [TS]

  started so in that way it felt stalled in the sense that we were promised this [TS]

  kind of unlimited platform and no one's really taking advantage of it whereas in [TS]

  reality like I'm very happy with the things that it does well the fitness [TS]

  tracking the you know so again I'm always surprised how useful it is to [TS]

  have the time in front of me especially with my phone now being so unwieldy and [TS]

  you know in a few very other basic things so i'm joined on it [TS]

  I've enjoyed that from other people too i know marco was saying on his podcast [TS]

  either the last episode of the last one I wasn't too worried he's like for [TS]

  Christmas got a mechanical watch because he's you know . he never watching this [TS]

  entire life but just the convenience of having the time on your wrist it turns [TS]

  out that's actually pretty cool [TS]

  yeah all of us like me have been watching my life as I come on with fact [TS]

  that you have to be told those I know I i had a while you know I had I was the [TS]

  kid with the nerd watching school with the calculator Cassie or whatever but I [TS]

  forgot I forgot all about that [TS]

  honestly like the temperatures cool to have yeah that's the one thing when i [TS]

  wear my traditional watch my regular watch the one thing that I miss every [TS]

  single day is that I expect to be able to look at my wrist and see what the [TS]

  temperature is outside [TS]

  yeah and every time it it's always it adding it's it's [TS]

  it's uncanny how I could go days without wearing my Apple watch and I still as [TS]

  i'm heading out the door and deciding which code to put on a look at my wrist [TS]

  and I'm like oh and it's not gonna help ya [TS]

  ru ru apple picking with it yeah i do when i have it on an apple pie and [TS]

  that's another thing too is because the supermarket where we go [TS]

  there's a whole foods and they take Apple pay and i instantly every single [TS]

  time I see whether i'm wearing my Apple watch or not Apple watch [TS]

  I put my wrist up to the key haha nice yeah i do I mean almost every day I do [TS]

  that so it is I find and I thought so I thought it would be true back in May [TS]

  when i first got it and it turns out it's very true it is terrific in the [TS]

  East Coast winter to have an apple pay thing that you don't have to fish out of [TS]

  your pocket when you're wearing a coat and layers of clothing and stuff gloves [TS]

  to write and actually you can go straight through the sleeve you don't [TS]

  even need to roll up your sleeve you just double click on the button it and [TS]

  that NFC will go right through your shirt [TS]

  now it is interesting i'll take it one thing too is I never use the single [TS]

  click on that contact thing to contact people only by accident right and so I [TS]

  really feel like in hindsight they got that wrong like single-click should have [TS]

  an Apple pay and double-click should have been jump to contact shortcut at [TS]

  least for me personally because when i do want to contact somebody like if I [TS]

  want to text my son i'll do it via serie I'll long-press the other thing and to [TS]

  say text Jonas whatever it is I want to text him because you have to dictate the [TS]

  the text anyway so why not just initiate the contact from the voice to it see I i [TS]

  assume they pry thought people would be doing the drawings and the touch stuff [TS]

  more than they do like I haven't done that stuff in months now only when [TS]

  somebody gets a new Apple watch [TS]

  yeah right in hindsight is the land is just one of those things where and I [TS]

  kind of it makes me a little worried you know it's a worrisome product in some [TS]

  ways about Apple because it makes me wonder what what made them think well [TS]

  they were using it themselves that this would be useful like [TS]

  it just seems to me that if they spent as much time thinking about it is i have [TS]

  in the first six months while i wore it why didn't they come to the same [TS]

  conclusions i did like it mean that's good [TS]

  the whole idea was a great idea I was very intrigued by it you know that the [TS]

  idea that you would have these favorite people and one touch away from just [TS]

  sending you know your heartbeat or whatever fabulous idea but then I feel [TS]

  like once you actually have it on your wrist and you can do it it turns out it [TS]

  doesn't doesn't really stick i think that it's going to be some of the most [TS]

  interesting things are going to be what they change based on what they have now [TS]

  learned from you know millions of people using this thing and that's the software [TS]

  as well as the hardware [TS]

  I think we've already seen a realizing that the sport is kind of the is the [TS]

  main watch so yeah there's more colors now we'll see what else changes with [TS]

  that but well I said the software changes [TS]

  yeah i know you said it was like the best one yeah i think it's the best one [TS]

  and I think all of the worrying that people did I think this is to me one of [TS]

  the most interesting things about it is all the worrying people did that that [TS]

  the common person is going to get short-changed and gets this cruddy [TS]

  aluminum one and people it's only rich people who can afford a thousand-dollar [TS]

  stainless steel one we're going to get the nice one it's actually the other way [TS]

  around the people who bought the $400 sport1 got the best watch I really do [TS]

  believe that [TS]

  yeah I love mine and so I'm just super curious to see what what they change [TS]

  software wise to know [TS]

  yeah I am too i'm I've and I don't want to do this software group has really [TS]

  gotten good at keeping a little you know not much leaks out of apple software [TS]

  these days so I think we're in for a surprise [TS]

  I don't think that you know who knows you mean you never know what mark [TS]

  government's going to figure out but yeah I i don't know i think there's a [TS]

  good chance that will be surprised so any guesses we have actually real [TS]

  guesses [TS]

  I if I you ask me right now what do I think they're going to do I'm going to [TS]

  guess a lot of Health and sensor related improvements and this one might be more [TS]

  of a mean we just wishful thinking but i really really really would like to see [TS]

  them [TS]

  do something a lot smarter with where the aggregate health data is it you know [TS]

  making health center more of a here's everything that we know about you type [TS]

  thing like me its way two separated with the activities is just for the watch [TS]

  stuff and not you imp you know what I mean right and you know i have six [TS]

  months or well I have eight months of aggregated fitness tracking like okay [TS]

  what-what higher-level trends can you tell me [TS]

  yeah you know okay when you don't know when you work out on the weekend you do [TS]

  something better [TS]

  during the week I don't know just like give me some more other than that page [TS]

  of all the Rings which is kinda cool but was cool you know the first couple times [TS]

  I looked at it is nice to be able to go back and kind of brag about the day I [TS]

  walked twenty seven thousand steps steps at CES but it would be great to actually [TS]

  get some more useful information out of that page [TS]

  yeah i think that if there's it if they're paying attention to how people [TS]

  really seem to be using watching the real world is going to be a lot more [TS]

  about quantifying you know and helping you make sense and organize your the [TS]

  data that the watch nose and like I mean the other thing too is if I'm not [TS]

  wearing my watch but i have my my phone with me the the minimal compared to the [TS]

  watch but the minimum tracking that the phone does should be easily combined [TS]

  with the watch you know to create an overall picture of like my activity and [TS]

  stuff like that and where it's been and then the other thing I think I hope that [TS]

  they're working on is I think that they should really work to make it smarter [TS]

  about he whether it's watch faces or the glances or locate you know but something [TS]

  so that it's just smarter about showing you what you want to be looking at when [TS]

  you look at rest [TS]

  yeah there's plenty of context that knows about you know where I'm at what [TS]

  I'm doing that it could i would even trust it to shuffle the complications [TS]

  for me somehow [TS]

  yeah based on the context you know if I met the airport show me the travel [TS]

  complications if it's nighttime show me you know certain things you know and i [TS]

  know that it [TS]

  be kind of obnoxious to have to program the logic behind that so maybe you [TS]

  wouldn't be able to program it but to me that would be there there's so much more [TS]

  context that that they could be integrating into a lot of the decisions [TS]

  about what they show you where there are a lot of Android watches at the CES not [TS]

  in a really noticeable way let me last year it was soda the whole watch things [TS]

  very novel and of course there was the famous apple watch knock off and get a [TS]

  lot of the boots i guess had kind of Android watches but i think that i [TS]

  didn't really it wasn't like a huge thing I mean like Samsung had one but I [TS]

  think they're only major change was just color [TS]

  yeah and then there was that a Fitbit yeah it looks a little like an Apple [TS]

  watch but it like a hexagonal like that yeah corners [TS]

  yeah I kind of dumped on it i looked at its fine i mean whatever fewer if you're [TS]

  trying to buy two-hundred-dollar thing or whatever its and you want to fit that [TS]

  also does a couple other things the advantage that Fitbit has is that they [TS]

  can get away with an ugly ish design and quite frankly I think that their thing [TS]

  is ugly it it certainly uglier in the Apple watch and yeah they can get away [TS]

  with it because people in their audience is primarily looking at fitness tracking [TS]

  and so if your thing you're most interested in is fitness tracking [TS]

  therefore less than great aesthetics can you can get away with it whereas Apple [TS]

  watch [TS]

  its primary thing is it's supposed to be a good-looking watch yeah and i think [TS]

  the whole point behind this is that they want to become a more Universal device [TS]

  and get away from you know the biggest risk to Fitbit is that fitness tracking [TS]

  becomes a nap on a more Universal device as opposed to separate a you know thing [TS]

  that you carry around the the way that calculator is now a nap on a phone or a [TS]

  flashlight you know you know was carrying a little maglite around anymore [TS]

  all rights your camera flash so you know I can see why they would want to kind of [TS]

  go after that [TS]

  more mainstream universal more useful market but I I just don't know they're [TS]

  the company that has the the software and in the ecosystem that they can get [TS]

  enough people using it i mean there's still this the selling a lot people are [TS]

  buying a lot of foot bits there [TS]

  the brand has awareness and people like it but i don't know i think they're [TS]

  doomed because i think that that they're not going to be able to stay far enough [TS]

  ahead to to to stay ahead of the eventual good enough fitness tracking [TS]

  that built into other devices you know include I I'd well I think right before [TS]

  or right after they went public I did kind of a trollee post where I said if [TS]

  its long-term stock chart revealed or something like that it was for the [TS]

  long-term sales chart revealed it was it was the the shipments curve of the ipod [TS]

  it was like you know [TS]

  yep this this is a single-purpose device that is basically become a nap on a more [TS]

  general purpose is over the holidays we're at Amiens mom's house or something [TS]

  I don't know something at some point during the Christmas New Year's thing [TS]

  and that's when Christmas and her mom had a and LED Maglite and I was just [TS]

  blown away by how awesomely powerful the the flashlight is a all the faucets we [TS]

  have we have we have a bunch of them from maglite I've always been a fan of [TS]

  their stuff because it's so well made but ours are all the old incandescent [TS]

  thing and I was like wow it's like I've somehow missed this revolution and I [TS]

  need to upgrade all our flashlight so I went flashlight shopping for myself and [TS]

  it's so funny how it's like maglite has all this so many slogans on a bunch of [TS]

  their smaller one so it's like you know [TS]

  yes you really do need a flashlight yes you can you can have a flashlight that's [TS]

  so much better than the one on your phone and it's like if you're telling [TS]

  people that they if you're just reminding them that they still need to [TS]

  buy a flashlight you're you're in trouble like yeah it is exactly it [TS]

  mirrors exactly what the consumer camera company started saying you know five or [TS]

  six years ago about yeah you don't need a two-hundred-dollar point-and-shoot [TS]

  camera and it's like no you don't go to any tourist location in the world and [TS]

  look at what people are using they're all using their phones [TS]

  totally and flashlight is right there [TS]

  it's like you know who knew who had said to me it's like something i would have [TS]

  never predicted I mean an apple obviously didn't predict because they [TS]

  were a little late to the game at making it something that you didn't need a nap [TS]

  for but I use my phone as a flashlight probably at least once a day every day [TS]

  every day [TS]

  yeah it's it's crazy to me but it's awesome right but it's you know add it [TS]

  to me in the same way i'm not saying Maglites going out of business but [TS]

  they're there they're going to go to the business that was selling little [TS]

  ten-dollar ones that you keep your desk is gone that's then it's never going to [TS]

  come back the only lights flash lights are going to sell her the the big [TS]

  serious ones that you need you know where you really do one like a [TS]

  you-know-what to studi sell flashlight [TS]

  yeah and that I mean in just to bring it back to that fit i guess that was the [TS]

  criticism was that it wasn't going after the serious fitness market because it [TS]

  doesn't have a gps right you know the marathon runners aren't using that that [TS]

  model and I don't think it's gonna be enough of an Apple watch to beat apple [TS]

  or even the google watches that at being a more general purpose device so [TS]

  anything else you wanna talk about this week damn I not really [TS]

  huh there was you know what about what do you want to talk about I was going to [TS]

  say there is a I as it comes and goes but it's it you know I I don't write [TS]

  about finance generally but imma jump somewhat intrigued by and I don't think [TS]

  that the company is immune to it i think even if you're primarily interested in [TS]

  apple because of their products as I am that you still have to consider they're [TS]

  like stock price and there you know quarterly financials because you know [TS]

  they're publicly held company and it were at this point the whole market is [TS]

  down quite frankly but Apple is down further than the market and they're [TS]

  trading at a ridiculously low price earnings ratio at the moment and it [TS]

  brings out and bridges brings out the crazies [TS]

  I mean no I you cannot make this up I mean this guy trip Chowdhry is is almost [TS]

  comically it [TS]

  really is hard to believe that he's not a parody that there's somebody out there [TS]

  who made up the name and you know like the mac elope and it's it it's a fake [TS]

  analyst who doesn't even exist in four years now he's been getting away with [TS]

  this and getting quoted and he keeps saying more and more outrageous things [TS]

  and everybody just keeps quoting him that you know putting the word analyst [TS]

  in front of your name is somehow this magical credibility badge he literally [TS]

  said last week called tim cook a bozo and called for him to be a not fired [TS]

  he called them to be demoted back to chief operating officer amazing and says [TS]

  that jon rubinstein should come back to the company and become the CEO perfect [TS]

  which is it's not gonna happen [TS]

  that is the other way worthy co-ceo with Fidel I guess you bring buy em all back [TS]

  and Angela Lawrence is a nitwit or something i forget what is word wasn't [TS]

  you know she's got to go [TS]

  meanwhile the apple stores are now never been more popular more successful it i [TS]

  mean it's clearly through there is a lot of I wouldn't say pessimism as much as [TS]

  just kind of people are not quite sure if if iphone sales are going to grow [TS]

  this year and I don't know maybe that doesn't matter to the average person it [TS]

  it does matter to Apple as it is a growth story around and growth certainly [TS]

  is important in any company and you know sure there are their cycles were things [TS]

  flatten out or maybe they decrease little and they start growing again and [TS]

  it yes Apple that you know may relative to the market that's one thing but there [TS]

  are companies that use stock performed great last year i believe the Amazons [TS]

  organizando amazon it seems like everybody's really really caught on to [TS]

  em and I think deservedly so I mean but but just little things like the way that [TS]

  amazon by most you know the accounting I've seen that got 51-percent of the [TS]

  online holiday shopping that's it an enormous number and it's sort of a magic [TS]

  number two you know like fundamentally if they got [TS]

  forty-nine percent of it instead of 51-percent it's you know it's the same [TS]

  it's a rounding error and probably well within the margin of error for however [TS]

  that the outside group estimated that the numbers but 51 is you know over that [TS]

  fifty percent line and that's a magic number and you can see why that would [TS]

  fuel you know investor confidence in their stock [TS]

  yeah so in the meantime you have you know these the this huge group of [TS]

  panelists who try to guess every quarter how many phones Apple's can sell and [TS]

  what the revenue and profits are going to be and and what's been happening [TS]

  recently is that they've been reducing their forecasts for for iphone sales and [TS]

  for i think also forever night I don't have the the trend line in front of me [TS]

  actually have access to a pretty what i thought would be an interesting chart of [TS]

  like how the estimates change over time but they actually changed so little that [TS]

  it's just kind of a flatline it's not very it's not actually a very [TS]

  interesting chart but we'll see [TS]

  I mean yeah this could be this could possibly be a year and by the way this [TS]

  has been known for a while like I think I wrote about this in i would say july [TS]

  or even april of last year that this coming year could be the year where the [TS]

  company doesn't grow very much at all and and we'll see I mean you know it [TS]

  certainly does matter for some reasons but it also seems to be creating an [TS]

  opportunity for a lot of people to blow things out of context and be right there [TS]

  is it silly about things there's a very interesting story here i think but it's [TS]

  all nuanced and in requires a you know to be let's be serious about this that [TS]

  that this company the biggest company world is not going to implode [TS]

  it's like we're talking about growth stopping not that iphone is going to do [TS]

  it the way some of these people are talking about it is as though that mean [TS]

  here's a little headline the iphone slow down spells doom for apple [TS]

  I mean that's an actual headline and ostensibly serious business publication [TS]

  it's ridiculous doesn't spell doom but it certainly is interesting and I think [TS]

  it's almost hit it if you're realistic about it you have to admit [TS]

  that just back-of-the-envelope math would suggest that the basic story is [TS]

  off actually very easy iphone sales were suppressed for a at least a year or two [TS]

  it seems because consumers decided they liked bigger phones and the iphone [TS]

  didn't have a big phone and it takes apple at least at least two years to to [TS]

  make a change like that because so much you know because of their we only do one [TS]

  major new design year and we bank you know bet the bank on it [TS]

  they're stuck with it for two years and when the 6 and 6s came out for the 6 and [TS]

  6 plus came out last year there was a it satisfy the demand but be it was pent-up [TS]

  because a lot of people have waited because they were in there were rumors I [TS]

  mean everybody know anybody who like us knows casual people who are like hey is [TS]

  it true that the Apple is going to come with a bigger phone was like well you [TS]

  know India give your standard i don't know but i certainly seems like it [TS]

  that's all . signs point to and they were like cool i'm going to get that and [TS]

  there waited for it and then they did and they had unbelievable sales i think [TS]

  that that sales so far from what we know that the 6s and 6s plus army are [TS]

  matching that but they the question is are they going to grow even further and [TS]

  they may not but the thing that's also very obvious is at this point it they're [TS]

  getting to the point where they're running out of people on the planet who [TS]

  can afford iphones right which there may be actually gonna help out with the you [TS]

  know second hand-me-down subscription phones around this year but you know [TS]

  we'll see at this point though they really and they're reaching the point [TS]

  where I really think that to grow it has to be at the lower end by widening the [TS]

  number of phones you know lower-cost phones are being sold their iphones [TS]

  because that I and i really do think they're at the point where it they there [TS]

  aren't any there just aren't untap people left the other a few google [TS]

  employees with Nexus phones and then that's about it you know and that's [TS]

  where other products come into play to like the watch for the apple TV but [TS]

  those are both so early in their life cycle that [TS]

  there's you know even even Apple music which we calculated is on a billion [TS]

  dollar revenue run rate like billion dollars is not that much to apple know [TS]

  how many how many watches do we think they sold the last time I ran after last [TS]

  quarter my number was around five million just based on kind of the [TS]

  changes in that other products thing could be a little more than that but the [TS]

  Christmas quarter is probably going to be you know on another level so right [TS]

  we'll know in a few weeks I mean it just making up a completely random number i [TS]

  would guess that they probably moved like 5 to 10 million last quarter alone [TS]

  but who knows I have an idea right and each one of those that eat it did the [TS]

  average selling prices easily guessed at around five hundred dollars because [TS]

  overwhelmingly most of them are Sport and Sport ones with four hundred dollars [TS]

  and then you know just enough of those still want would raise it up to around [TS]

  500 so if they said every million that they sell is five hundred dollars in [TS]

  revenue that's what is that [TS]

  so basically a billion for every 2 million phones their watches don't and [TS]

  so they've you know they've built in your one a multi-billion dollar business [TS]

  which is pretty good and I think it's about helping out yeah but if your Apple [TS]

  it's not going to really drive much growth especially if you have to offset [TS]

  you know the ipad declining and you know the mac is the mac has been up but it [TS]

  sometimes falls and that sort of stuff so yeah my guess is that the ipad is [TS]

  stabilized i think that the ipad is going to settle in as a nine to 10 [TS]

  million of quarter device in the same way that the mac has long been a very [TS]

  very stable product where but it but it actually grown and then very nice but [TS]

  conservative way where it in the old days they don't like 10-15 years ago [TS]

  that it was like a million max a quarter was the magic number [TS]

  good quarters were over a million and bad quarters were under a million and [TS]

  it's slowly but steadily grown to the point our they're doing like three four [TS]

  four and a half million maxik order more [TS]

  is it more now yeah that's right well I'm gonna pull out my my spreadsheet [TS]

  here so give me 10 seconds but let's see last quarter was a 5.7 there you go [TS]

  behind the time so that grown past alive because i believe a record right all [TS]

  time record you know and I just say I i noticed though I noticed just the other [TS]

  day I saw a guy in a starbucks and he was working on an old remember the white [TS]

  macbooks remember the ones are you need to get white or black and he was working [TS]

  on one of those it was in beautiful shape it was absolutely it really was it [TS]

  wasn't totally clean and it had the screen look great and he was working on [TS]

  like I couldn't tell which app is either accelerate numbers is clearly a [TS]

  spreadsheet doing work on it and it look around inside had no surprise if you [TS]

  know that he's still using it but that's what normal people do is they buy a that [TS]

  they buy a back book or laptop and they use it until it breaks and if they this [TS]

  is the 2009 imac we're using so trying out right now right and I feel like the [TS]

  ipad you know is my theory on the ipad is that it [TS]

  it's sold in these 20 million a quarter numbers because it was this sensational [TS]

  new thing that met Adam and that no product never met before and lots of [TS]

  people decided hey I could use one of those and they weren't replacing [TS]

  anything they were adding it to their life and so it was way out of proportion [TS]

  to do that [TS]

  what could be expected in a normal quarter and that now it's settled in and [TS]

  it's settled in i think roughly like somewhere around two times the number of [TS]

  Max they sell yeah and that that had a natural number of iPads to be sold a [TS]

  quarter now na i just bought an ipad to ebay just to use the screen so the old [TS]

  ones have value to ya [TS]

  and again I don't think people get rid of them until they break now I had to [TS]

  stop using my original iPad because it was still on i think ios5 and yeah the [TS]

  app we were using to watch TV on needed ios7 I think so got a ipad 2 and now I'm [TS]

  solved [TS]

  so i don't know i think it's i think that this the the the the [TS]

  hyperventilating over this is ridiculous i do think it's interesting it's [TS]

  interesting to say what what does Apple do now that the ipod iphone has reached [TS]

  peak iphone right and much like you know when when they messed something small up [TS]

  with the product people love to jump on it so you know imagine the whole company [TS]

  collapsing or you know not collapsing but actually just not growing like like [TS]

  crazy for a few quarters in a row but yeah what do they do it I don't you know [TS]

  they've they've done a few things and we'll see [TS]

  well and i think i think in terms of anybody's looking for growth [TS]

  I I don't see how the watch could have done better in the first year and [TS]

  honestly I've given the numbers it's gotten I think that they've sold outside [TS]

  the number III outside how well it deserves to assault like I don't think [TS]

  it's that great of a one-point product but it's actually remarkable that [TS]

  they're selling as many millions of them as it seems like they are and I think [TS]

  that's great and I think it's only going to get better and they do really read in [TS]

  the last few years they've really with every product since the ipad they do an [TS]

  amazing job in the first two or three years of greatly improving the product i [TS]

  mean the ipad went from the ipad to the ipad 2 which is way thinner then there [TS]

  was the ipad 3 which was weird because it went right now but it got thicker and [TS]

  heavier which was a weird sort of now you have this awesome retina screen but [TS]

  it's also thicker and heavier and then ever since [TS]

  from that point onward it's just gotten crazily thinner and faster and lighter [TS]

  and so I expect the exact same trajectory with the watch with a very [TS]

  aggressive annual schedule [TS]

  yeah I'm excited I've I like mine a lot more than I thought I would so but it's [TS]

  still a long way to get between now and you know hundred million units a year so [TS]

  the other the left one last thing I thought from CES was at the and it sort [TS]

  of ties into the what is Apple do now and it sort of ties into my thing about [TS]

  maybe they shouldn't have done apps on the watch was a thing with dieter bohn [TS]

  for the verge had an article about Tyson which is Samsung's [TS]

  not android their own homegrown operating system and that maybe it's [TS]

  going to do okay even though it never it you know nobody there's no app [TS]

  developers you know targeting Tizen and that sort of the problem that windows [TS]

  exemplifies is that at fast you know usually there's just one dominant [TS]

  platform that that developers write for any any old days it used to be the [TS]

  Windows then it became on the desktop then it became the web and nowadays it's [TS]

  you know it's split people still developed for the web but on mobile [TS]

  people developed for iOS and they develop for android and if you're trying [TS]

  to be the third you're out of luck because there's just too much task so [TS]

  windows doesn't really get apps and Tyson you know get certainly gets less [TS]

  than Windows but that maybe you know day guess what they when he was writing [TS]

  about with these [TS]

  about with these [TS]

  samsung watches that are running Tizen and it occurs to me that as we move past [TS]

  the phone and get into these other devices platforms going forward and [TS]

  operating systems apps made-up need to be a part of that like and having your [TS]

  own operating system that you inside your company completely control and you [TS]

  can have your engineers optimize it you know if what you really want to work on [TS]

  is low energy consumption well you can make that the highest priority because [TS]

  you have your own operating system or if you want to do like what Apple's done [TS]

  with metal and make this you know incredibly custom and high-performance [TS]

  graphics pipeline you can do that and you can bake that into the operating [TS]

  system at whatever point where it makes the most sense for your desires because [TS]

  you control the operating system [TS]

  I just think that a lot of these things going forward that are going to become [TS]

  computerized they don't need apps and therefore it doesn't matter if you know [TS]

  if Samsung can do a good watch and it runs Tizen but there's no third party [TS]

  apps for it that may not matter at all and where I'm going with this is to me [TS]

  the car might be the same thing or what you want out of your computerized car is [TS]

  nothing to do with third-party apps right or or your I mean to Tizen is also [TS]

  being used i believe in many of their televisions as well as the new fridge [TS]

  with a tablet built into it and a bunch of this stuff and you know you can laugh [TS]

  but if every if every gadget is eventually going to have a screen on it [TS]

  you know your washing machine or something and the value of the apps the [TS]

  logic is mostly running in the cloud and and what you're interacting with is just [TS]

  you know either a notification or a you notice the button that basically says [TS]

  run this this app in the background or respond to a notification or something [TS]

  then absolutely it doesn't you don't really need all the UI development or [TS]

  you know a separate app running on the device [TS]

  did you see the the summon feature for the testicles [TS]

  you know I i feel dumb because i actually had heard about that before but [TS]

  I didn't realize it hadn't been announced [TS]

  yeah i saw that I saw that [TS]

  cool and that's the type of stuff that I think that's this is the revolution [TS]

  that's coming to the car industry and it has nothing to do with apps right like [TS]

  the fact that you can't get apps for your test what does not change anybody's [TS]

  desire to buy a Tesla at all in either direction whether you didn't want one [TS]

  before you do the fact that it's not an app platform is irrelevant it's the fact [TS]

  that the car can do it [TS]

  abs are just the wrong concept for the car they really are i mean i know that [TS]

  there's certain things like maybe you would want something app like for music [TS]

  but it doesn't have to be apps you just want to get music in your car and yet so [TS]

  there's something feature is really cool it's like a you can you tell yours Tesla [TS]

  that you're ready to go to work and the Tesla will like open the garage door [TS]

  get outside and be right there at the curb ready for you to get in and drive [TS]

  and when you get home you can just get out of the Tesla in front of your house [TS]

  and go in the front door and the Tesla will go through the the nit picky detail [TS]

  of carefully driving itself into your garage and like the crazy long-term said [TS]

  thing they said was like a few if you're in la la your car will drive from New [TS]

  York and come pick you up right that's the absolute yeah that you have right [TS]

  now it's like limited to very very near proximity around your house or whatever [TS]

  but that that you know that they've already got in place you know plans in [TS]

  place where you'll be able to do it from any distance where there's continuous [TS]

  land access so you know you can't make your car magically get itself to Hawaii [TS]

  but you can get [TS]

  yeah but you can go LA to New York yeah I i love this I you know I i think that [TS]

  the the the concept of of a car and of transport is really changing a lot and [TS]

  yeah i mean that's it was funny because CES was literally the week before the [TS]

  biggest car show in the world but it's there that a lot of these companies were [TS]

  making their big announcements because they're all trying to position [TS]

  themselves as technology companies now and you know something similar to what i [TS]

  love about Tesla is just thick these ideas are so wacky but then they just [TS]

  released a software update [TS]

  there there like a self-driving mode i don't think anyone the week before was [TS]

  like I wonder when my test is going to be able to drive itself and then Elon [TS]

  Musk is like here it is boom and I think that even have to dial it back now [TS]

  because it was like a little too crazy but while there I love it I i did i [TS]

  mention this on the show i figured if i did and I've such terrible podcast [TS]

  amnesia but that I would I got to drive in a self-driving mercedes-benz cool is [TS]

  amazing is truly truly amazing [TS]

  mercedes flew a bunch of not a bunch of small number of writers out and I don't [TS]

  know why they picked me but I didn't question it just works to go Sunnydale [TS]

  sunnyvale know go somewhere out there somewhere out in our heads that [TS]

  investors can down the street from yahoo and got to ride in a self-driving [TS]

  s-class we went out on the highway and the card drove did everything it you [TS]

  know it was amazing and it works it absolutely works and it's not perfect [TS]

  yet obviously but and it but if anything all the imperfections are on the side of [TS]

  being conservative it is it's very heavy breaker it breaks very very aggressively [TS]

  we were heading up like an on-ramp to get onto a highway in terms of go [TS]

  high-speed driving and we were it was later in the afternoon and we're heading [TS]

  right into the Sun you know and and basically just talking to their [TS]

  engineers all of the things that make driving hard for humans are the exact [TS]

  same thing that make self-driving hard if you have trouble seeing the cameras [TS]

  on the car have trouble seeing as well and it was really a lot of glare and [TS]

  braked going up the ramp because the glare was so bad that it couldn't really [TS]

  even see it was like that the status indicator was just like can't tell [TS]

  what's ahead [TS]

  therefore it's going to stop and it was you know is an unnatural thing that [TS]

  human wouldn't have done and a couple of other times it broke a little bit too [TS]

  aggressively but for the most part I think you could easily if you didn't [TS]

  tell somebody I think you could and blindfolded them i think that you could [TS]

  easily the cars they already have today could easily fool somebody in thinking [TS]

  that a human did the driving [TS]

  that's great yeah I'm that's gonna be awesome [TS]

  so one of the questions I asked them was do they anticipate and that [TS]

  are there obviously solving their solving it [TS]

  so you know really really fascinating AI engineering problems hardware/software [TS]

  sensors the the braking systems and the software of course to drive all this but [TS]

  they're also solving legislative and regulatory problems at the same time and [TS]

  do they entered like right now you can buy said you i could go buy a Mercedes [TS]

  spent every penny Ben's i drive off the lot i can instantly go and it greatly [TS]

  exceed any speed limit in the United States at my own discretion [TS]

  well I have that ability in a self-driving car and I was told quite [TS]

  quite bluntly know there's almost no chance that would be legal for them to [TS]

  make a self-driving car that will exceed speed limits which is kind of weird and [TS]

  it's going to drive the sort of libertarian mindset people i think a [TS]

  little nutty but their explanation was but why do you want to drive faster now [TS]

  because you want to get you know you're bored you know and if you're if you're [TS]

  not paying attention to the road if you're just reading or watching TV or [TS]

  whatever on your way to work [TS]

  you're not going to care that it takes five minutes longer totally a i think i [TS]

  also saw something similar with the Tesla thing where it can its program [TS]

  that it could maybe go i think five miles over the limit or something like [TS]

  that [TS]

  based on where it is not sure I may be making that I'll but I i thought i read [TS]

  something about that and then of course if you if you need to go faster there's [TS]

  the flying car that they had at CES to the scary quadcopter with the person in [TS]

  it [TS]

  did you see that no I did not oh yeah that's the was like a human-sized drone [TS]

  so great so we got that to look forward to that the one thing talking to people [TS]

  Mercedes as they were very the you know it's a they are very confident in their [TS]

  ability and that they're going to have world-class self-driving cars i'm anti [TS]

  wrote in one that already was real the real deal but they're talking date they [TS]

  divide this the stages of self-driving cars in like four levels and like level [TS]

  one is like the stuff that we already have you can get on the market today [TS]

  where you can like set your car to maintain distance from the car in front [TS]

  of it and that staying you know [TS]

  and that Tesla has like a feature would net you know you can turn on the thing [TS]

  and it'll it'll do the highway driving for you and that but part of stage one [TS]

  is that stage 1 means you still have a human driver who's who is expected to be [TS]

  able to take over the control of the car in an instant like hands ready to take [TS]

  over at all times and that's where the industry is today in terms of what's on [TS]

  the market and that they were absolutely it was I guess they considered almost [TS]

  seemingly this wasn't what they said but I could read between the lines it seemed [TS]

  like they were angry and it was like a setback to the industry that when Tesla [TS]

  first made this feature available that jackasses were setting up GoPros and [TS]

  showing themselves like reading the newspaper father car drove there was a [TS]

  guy who got in the backseat of his Tesla while it was on like a highway in [TS]

  California and that it's so that's not that's not [TS]

  you're not supposed to do that and it somebody's going to do that in a [TS]

  disaster you know they're going to have a catastrophic accident because of it [TS]

  and it's going to be you know the fear is it's going to make people say we [TS]

  should ban self-driving cars before they even get a chance to to to do it but who [TS]

  would do that [TS]

  what kind of yeah and it really is funny it's like so it's just like some random [TS]

  yahoo with a with a Tesla is going to ruin this for everybody [TS]

  yeah i think if you go on youtube and search like test fail you'll find some [TS]

  people who were very surprised by what they were recording but yeah I mean [TS]

  that's it's interesting and and I'm sure we've seen other tech example that means [TS]

  it's not too dissimilar from what we're seeing with Airbnb and uber where you [TS]

  know there's the company that wants to kind of skirt the way that things have [TS]

  always been and then reality which will fit somewhere in the middle [TS]

  yeah i just think bottom line for apple is that until they get to their car [TS]

  comes out which is it even if everything goes swimmingly it's going to be you [TS]

  know 2020-21 something like that i think i don't i don't see how they can get it [TS]

  out before 2020 but who knows but it even if it if I'm wrong it's not going [TS]

  to be that much [TS]

  earlier until then I don't see how they can do anything to create like a totally [TS]

  grossly inflated the revenue of the company right like watches and and other [TS]

  things that they could do an interview either watches a good business but like [TS]

  you said like a billion here in a billionaire doesn't move the line for [TS]

  Apple very much right unless that's the kind of thing where almost everyone [TS]

  within iphone gets 12 but then still smaller than the iphone it's still in [TS]

  its basically accessories available but i think that this i think that the wall [TS]

  street's desire for apple to do that is just magical thinking and I think it's [TS]

  good as somebody who wants the company to continue doing good work [TS]

  it's good that they're a by all appearances are not obsessed with [TS]

  finding another iphone you know that I think that they knew going into it that [TS]

  the watch was not going to be like the iphone and they did it anyway and I [TS]

  think that's as it should be i think it's you know the the the phone is like [TS]

  a once-in-a-generation opportunity [TS]

  yeah I don't think anything can be like the iphone at least in the next you know [TS]

  it at least knowing what we know today about the world i don't think there's [TS]

  going to be another product that is like the iphone for apple right it's serious [TS]

  it's just a perfect storm of everything you know that it's just device that [TS]

  everybody wants one and that you know they have engineering advantages they [TS]

  were at you know just couldn't the prices hit in the right you know [TS]

  all right though right though right right that nobody even knows what [TS]

  they're really paying for it and they just be industry just keeps finding new [TS]

  ways to further obfuscate just how much you're paying [TS]

  yeah I love it when you tell somebody that like a like if you just buy a [TS]

  no-contract iphone that it's you know eight or nine hundred dollars and [TS]

  they're like well I would never pay that debt that they have an iphone like using [TS]

  tells me you're paying it anything else that's good i think all right [TS]

  dan frommer at court sets qz com out i'll make sure to throw a couple links [TS]

  to your CES stuff i didn't i didn't do much so often you i'll send you what i [TS]

  did but uh which was nice [TS]

  it's always good talking to ya from belmont twitter from dome on Twitter and [TS]

  city notes . oh [TS]