The Talk Show

154: ‘Facebook on Your Face’, With Special Guest Rene Ritchie


  how is sunny California it's great i mean it was snowing in montreal this [TS]

  week before i left which is just climate chaos and then I got here and it was a [TS]

  heat wave so it's great [TS]

  ah so anyway you are out there and what else you're doing but I know yesterday [TS]

  you were at the grand opening of the new or I guess it's not really the grand [TS]

  opening I guess that's tomorrow but yeah that the sort of preview opening of the [TS]

  new flagship apple store in san francisco right off right at the top of [TS]

  the hill at union square [TS]

  yeah it was that sort of this preview event is open officially on Saturdays [TS]

  when the general public can go and just we'll see how you like normal people [TS]

  react to the store especially when they're at capacity but he had a small [TS]

  event yesterday with Angela errands which was very nice [TS]

  so tell me about it well the thing that the thing that was remarkable to me up [TS]

  front as they brought us in and you know they said angela was going to speak and [TS]

  when there was all this internet stuff previously about you know why is Apple [TS]

  hiding Angela Angela errands while why is an apple showcasing your wife and she [TS]

  on the stage and she even around anymore and you knew that that was bullshit [TS]

  because you see on campus like she's a presence that Apple she's everywhere she [TS]

  does phenomenal work but she came out and it was very similar to how i [TS]

  remember Johnny I've coming out for the unibody macbook event many years ago [TS]

  where she said you flatly this is not her favorite thing to do and she ask [TS]

  like a bottle of water and she got talkin and it's just like she's so [TS]

  passionate if you wanted to do this but clearly you're being on an appletini its [TS]

  keen on stage is not top of her personal list of things interesting [TS]

  I did I wouldn't have you know that's you know maybe that's the simple [TS]

  explanation for why we haven't seen our own state too often that she doesn't [TS]

  have to be just like Johnny I mean like not everyone wants to do that stuff [TS]

  yeah i think people you know before all of the and some of it you know certainly [TS]

  warranted all of the debate over you know the diversity of the people who are [TS]

  on stage at apple event it's easy to overlook the fact that a lot of people [TS]

  really not just don't like it but really have like a it's just it's just it's so [TS]

  stressful to go and speak in front of the audience that it's you know it [TS]

  undesirable you know they just don't want to do it [TS]

  yeah well they work on my Craig federighi he was not great the first . [TS]

  it but he's got better and better every year at it and some of that is just [TS]

  gonna have to get you give people that time those opportunities and maybe [TS]

  smaller events like this is a good way to do it they can sort of get [TS]

  comfortable with it and then become very good at those great jobs there's that I [TS]

  think it's malcolm gladwell who's got this theory that it takes 10,000 hours [TS]

  to get good at something which you know roll your eyes because it's malcolm [TS]

  gladwell and it's sort of anecdotal but with Craig federighi it's like he needed [TS]

  like an hour and a half [TS]

  yes he needed like like he had like one is first time he came back was I think [TS]

  it was the back to the mac event that was a town-hall I was not there I would [TS]

  I actually watched that one remotely and his he would was doing the demos that [TS]

  these features on a mac and his hands were literally shaking like he couldn't [TS]

  he really couldn't do the mousing required to to do the demo it was like [TS]

  clicking wrong because his hands were so shaky it was almost hard to watch as you [TS]

  know it unless you know it it's hard to watch somebody who's that nervous [TS]

  speaking then like the next time he came out he was much better and then by the [TS]

  third time he did it event he's like well he may be the best public speaker [TS]

  at the company [TS]

  yeah it was phenomenal and a they had i'm planning on her name right now but [TS]

  the woman who is the vice president of Apple pay was just phenomenal first time [TS]

  out [TS]

  yeah the person covering news really good to make jokes about so much sports [TS]

  illustrated phenomenal and and that kind of stuff I'm really eager to see more oh [TS]

  yeah so tell me about the store itself it so what I loved about this is that in [TS]

  typical apple fashion most companies were just they would give anything to [TS]

  have a business like apple store nevermind business like Apple just it [TS]

  it's such a valuable property that's so many so many billions of dollars and [TS]

  transactions really a beloved retail experience and messing with that is [TS]

  super scary because you do anything wrong you risk damaging that business [TS]

  and that's big business for Apple but they they don't just I think will make [TS]

  the genius bar 3 inches longer will change the would always incremental [TS]

  things to improve them will make the quality of the screens better they re [TS]

  thought everything from the beginning so is Angela errands team and johnny is [TS]

  team and the companies that they worked with and they brought everything back to [TS]

  the essence and it wasn't you know do we keep the theaters we [TS]

  exit theaters or do we do something with the genius bar it's what is our core [TS]

  principle what governs what we're going to do with apple stores and she [TS]

  mentioned that apple store is the biggest product that Apple ships to [TS]

  customers and they've had a long history but apple online now does so much people [TS]

  can just go there in order and they don't necessarily have to go to stores [TS]

  anymore to do that and likewise and apple support on [TS]

  twitter handle a lot of the low-level queries now so if you just have a [TS]

  software issue or you just need help her how to information they handle all that [TS]

  so it's not necessary for the genius bars to do the same load they used to do [TS]

  so they wanted to figure out what made the apple store relevant to customers [TS]

  these days what would make them actually want to go there and they settled on [TS]

  this overarching theme of community that the apple store to be the central hub of [TS]

  the Apple community and it starts with those giant 40-foot doors on both sides [TS]

  that you make your Apple car drive through jokes but they really want to be [TS]

  able to open up the entire store and make it part of that block almost like a [TS]

  one open-air market interesting I I you know and I can definitely say here in [TS]

  Philadelphia I i tend to walk by the you know it's just it in a busy retail area [TS]

  so no surprise that I'm not walking by the apple store a lot and you know like [TS]

  most apple stores always almost always very pretty crowded and it's definitely [TS]

  not just people who are shopping for things I mean there are definitely [TS]

  people who just going to hang out you know check their email and and stuff [TS]

  like that [TS]

  yeah and the end they're taking that whole approach they're applying it to [TS]

  everything so there's a giant screen now and if people remember that used to be a [TS]

  movie theater at the old union square store but now they have this giant 6k [TS]

  display and it looks seamless to me it looked like it was actually one display [TS]

  and I immediately just wanted to take it home [TS]

  they don't sell it and that's right in the middle of what they call forum now [TS]

  and forum has this little box and ball seats that you can sit on and they can [TS]

  make it one big room where a developer or an expert can come and give a talk [TS]

  with you can also split up into smaller area so you can have several people [TS]

  doing smaller talks the same time and the screen can be used for presentation [TS]

  but also just shows information and all the iconography is exactly like iOS and [TS]

  its uses [TS]

  San Francisco is a typeface so it it was built to be an apple product what would [TS]

  a nap [TS]

  old what iOS look like running on a 6k displays exactly what you'd expect with [TS]

  this [TS]

  yeah I get this big displays are part of the I mean and every you know a lot of [TS]

  these stores are have to fit the existing space they can't just say [TS]

  here's the dimensions that we want its you know we're in a historic building [TS]

  here so you know here's you know here's what we have to work with but those big [TS]

  displays are definitely part of the new store design [TS]

  yeah they took the genius bar in the city would be nice bar it's got some [TS]

  negative connotations like it's loud it's noisy people are elevating [TS]

  everyone's fighting for their chance to get to the genius bar tender and it's [TS]

  not the experience they want to give anymore especially now that a lot of the [TS]

  software and and basic health and how to stuff is moved online so now they have [TS]

  the genius grove which is right up front honest or not in the back anymore and [TS]

  it's part of its part of that area where the forum is with a lot of these open [TS]

  tables and open seating and those trees that people might have seen at the [TS]

  Belgium store previously you can just go and sit there and get help with your mac [TS]

  or iphone or ipad for hardware issues or other things they can't solve online and [TS]

  not feel sort of crowded around a little table anymore [TS]

  that's interesting it's interesting that they would move that to the front the [TS]

  whole thing was to producing to have a boardroom there and I don't know that [TS]

  they said like some of these features will move to other stores and some of [TS]

  them have tried already but there's something called boardroom where it's [TS]

  apples approaching enterprise and big business with oracle partnerships and [TS]

  IBM partnerships but for smaller businesses for entrepreneurs 4pcs for [TS]

  some sort of the Kickstarter stuff they have boardroom now where people can go [TS]

  in and not only get help with that but also network and make connections and [TS]

  they're saying that such a that part of san francisco is so rich with that kind [TS]

  of culture that they wanted a nexus almost like an apple central Nexus for [TS]

  them and became the boardroom area and the retail stuff was super interesting [TS]

  too because they have the Avenue now so the Avenue used to have those [TS]

  accessories but if anyone has seen pictures of the new infinite loop store [TS]

  or the new store in New York and I think the one in Belgium to they've got these [TS]

  these pains instead of just having cases that there's cases on shelves and you [TS]

  see the individual cases so they have it's an avenue to have almost like [TS]

  little boutiques called windows where there's different sets of accessories [TS]

  like cases and photography equipment music and they have a new Apple job [TS]

  they're called the creative pro and the creative pros job is to help you're [TS]

  supposed to touch everything try everything sample [TS]

  everything and if you need help i'll show you the basics if you don't know [TS]

  anything [TS]

  the basics of photography music but they can also go up to and including lessons [TS]

  on final cut pro or logic pro if you want to take that that next step up and [TS]

  they really want to make that sort of your introduction to apple experience [TS]

  and it really is the whole back of the store just one long run for that [TS]

  so what do you think that gets it an improvement [TS]

  it's just an evolution it's it's super interesting the last thing that [TS]

  invention is that they also have this garden is neglected area they've turned [TS]

  into a garden where 24 7 Wi-Fi with seating and it's can fit up to 200 [TS]

  people and it's it's interesting as an experiment and i like that Apple is not [TS]

  just doing that incremental thing that they're willing to take risks with this [TS]

  that you know Johnny I've and dandelions are passionate about this it'll be [TS]

  interesting to see how people react to it i usually go into an apple store to [TS]

  see like dozens of kids around a machine to use facebook or something like that [TS]

  but this this really does seem like a place where people like us where we're [TS]

  really good at handling Apple technology we only go there if we break our screen [TS]

  or something and we need a logic board to play something something really [TS]

  serious happens but for a lot of people um I feel totally alienated going into a [TS]

  lot of course I go into a liquor store and I got a text you or somebody [TS]

  different eyes I just have no idea what I'm doing and I feel bad I feel anxious [TS]

  and a little bit embarrassed and dumb and for a lot of people that's what [TS]

  technology is like and if they can go to an apple store and you'll get greeted [TS]

  and get help and get shown things and learn things and I think it de-stresses [TS]

  all that and it shows that Apple really is playing the long game still it's not [TS]

  that they don't bring you in there and hustle even force you to buy a case just [TS]

  to get a quick sale they want to make that Apple brand super important to you [TS]

  so that even if you don't need something now you're just curious [TS]

  you'll think that Apple's to create experiences when you do want something [TS]

  that that's exactly what you're gonna go [TS]

  yeah I do think you know and though it's funny looking back pieces at this point [TS]

  like the Apple stores being ubiquitous I mean they're they're pretty much [TS]

  everywhere and being successful [TS]

  it's been long enough that we just take it for granted that going back to when [TS]

  they first started it it was widely panned and you know it's like a massive [TS]

  file of claim chapter in my bookmarks of people who were predicting doom you know [TS]

  because every other computer company that had ever tried their own branded [TS]

  store [TS]

  before failed miserably I mean gateway isn't even a company anymore [TS]

  no yeah totally and it's just it just gets to the heart of why Apple is not [TS]

  like other computer companies [TS]

  I mean and part of it is just as simple as the fact that they do hardware and [TS]

  software which sounds like well come on that's not that big a deal but it just [TS]

  it it's not necessarily because they do hardware and software it's the what [TS]

  makes apple different is why they do hardware and software right i would say [TS]

  that the fact that they do the hardware and software is the result of you know [TS]

  it's the effect and that the cause is just the way that Apple approaches this [TS]

  stuff is different and their stores are emblematic of them absolutely if you [TS]

  look at Apple the consistent theme from the from the Apple to all the way to [TS]

  something like an Iowa an Apple watch or or apple TV is the mainstreaming of [TS]

  computing technology to macro democratization of access to ubiquitous [TS]

  computing and the apple store is like that it's a way to it's a way to reach [TS]

  people as a way to make people want to sort of get it get make this and you [TS]

  called just before like this affordable luxury where technology shouldn't be [TS]

  just kept afloat to a small few people there should be something that's [TS]

  off-putting are inaccessible or something makes you feel bad about [TS]

  yourself it should be something that everybody can use to enhance their lives [TS]

  and apple people debate other to start with a hardware company software [TS]

  companies really a product company they make wonderful products because they [TS]

  want to give you a great experience and this is absolutely an extension of that [TS]

  I do think there's in it's pretty clear that the the architectural evolution of [TS]

  the apple store has gotten a lot more humane i would say where the original [TS]

  design was sort of like being inside a probably at the time it was a powerbook [TS]

  you know they would it was sort of like an aluminum walls and it was you know [TS]

  almost utilitarian yeah it was a very not quite like you're in a sci-fi movie [TS]

  but futuristic and definitely forward-thinking and a little cold [TS]

  little clean and you know utilitarian is a good way to put it on and that the [TS]

  stores got warmer when they started going more towards wood and getting away [TS]

  from the metal walls and i know most or all of the original apple stores that [TS]

  had that first look [TS]

  all of them i think of it at at one point or another been shut down to be [TS]

  renovated to be updated to the more humane look but this new look which is [TS]

  sort of like a three point out is downright organic I mean there are [TS]

  actual plants you know on the walls and as trees in the middle right and if the [TS]

  stores are big enough to even have trees and this one has a garden wall [TS]

  the only thing that was curious to me they don't have the glowing logo anymore [TS]

  that was so used to and seeing on the stories they now actually have something [TS]

  that's the game bed stainless steel I logo that you see on a macbook or an [TS]

  iPhone or an iPad and that's it's big and it's space gray and spiteful the [TS]

  side of the building is so it's not on the front of the building it on the side [TS]

  well I'm not sure what is actually the front because you have those two big [TS]

  doors to the front and the back door and those take up the entire walls or 40 [TS]

  foot at door so then in between those on the other side you have the giant apple [TS]

  logo somebody who's selling big pieces of glass is making a lot of money from [TS]

  apple [TS]

  hey yeah especially considering campus to like exactly at this point ma'am I i [TS]

  guess my only worry with the apple store is that I if I have to be play devil's [TS]

  advocate [TS]

  I worry that maybe they're getting a little unfocused that maybe you know [TS]

  that that shouldn't there be a focus to this and i would say that originally the [TS]

  focus was very simple it was to let people come in and see him play and [TS]

  touch apple products because it's the best way and and i think this was a lot [TS]

  more important in the early parts of the last decade you know let's say the the [TS]

  when people call them the ipod company because people didn't know apple [TS]

  products because they were you know rats relative to now so many you know or an [TS]

  order of magnitude fewer customers maybe two orders of magnitude for customers [TS]

  and the thing that makes apple products desirable is are things that you really [TS]

  have to see them and use it yourself to see how nice they are like you can say [TS]

  that something is that you know this ipod is nicer than other music players [TS]

  but you really have to use it and see how it feels when you spend the you know [TS]

  the the wheel the click wheel or in the modern time to just load a webpage and [TS]

  see how how much better [TS]

  the trackpad is then the windows trackpad you might be used to etcetera [TS]

  and you go through like you can't just say hey at max have much nicer trackpads [TS]

  than the crappy windows machine you're used to that you can say it but it's [TS]

  seeing is believing and that was the purpose of the stores let people see [TS]

  these things make it easy to buy them and once you have them make it easy to [TS]

  get help with them and that was it and now I feel like by making it a community [TS]

  hub i wonder if-if there you know just again to play devil's advocate is it [TS]

  worrisome that there may be losing focus so i think that's absolutely valid i'm [TS]

  wondering how much of the community focus is actually the sugar candy [TS]

  coating on this because you sort of go through those three stages you meant you [TS]

  mentioned where Apple stores became a place we could go by apple products and [TS]

  that was perfect timing [TS]

  it was one of the few that one of the many things that was the confluence that [TS]

  led to iphone becoming the astronomical business that it was an apple mate [TS]

  iphone super available the apple stores but then there was this whole move [TS]

  towards the halo effect where once you got an iphone that was one of your [TS]

  gateway to apple and then there was the back to my Mac event and it wasn't an [TS]

  iphone you go to the apple store maybe you didn't matter you get an ipad but [TS]

  now we're getting to a point where these products are so make sure that these [TS]

  have to start looking for extra markets and that there is apple watch an apple [TS]

  TV and those sort of become satellites around the iphone but now there really [TS]

  is this move especially with that new Avenue set up towards the things that [TS]

  now that iphone is built out as a platform things you can build up from [TS]

  the iPhone platform and that is photography and music and and things [TS]

  like cases which are some more to watch bands for phones and sort of lets while [TS]

  the iphone business might be maturing it lets Apple build all these other small [TS]

  businesses that aren't as valuable as iphone but taken together might become [TS]

  very very valuable for Apple alright and I can't can't move on from the store [TS]

  without mentioning the giant window or giant doors that easily could [TS]

  accommodate class when you look at that front showroom do you can you imagine a [TS]

  like two cars on the floor is a room for that [TS]

  yeah it's funny because i went from the apple store went down to santana row [TS]

  lately where they have later where they have a Tesla store and test the store [TS]

  looks very much like that front of that apple store once that's open they have [TS]

  room for to Teslas and about the bottom chassis there so three [TS]

  arts and essence footprint and absolutely if you move those tables out [TS]

  out of the way you can easily see especially if Apple goes for something [TS]

  small and smart qari see a couple that was right in front [TS]

  alright let me take a break and thank our first sponsor it is our good friends [TS]

  at Casper Casper sells obsessively obsessively engineered mattresses at [TS]

  shockingly fair prices go to Casper calm / the talk show and just use that code [TS]

  the talk show when you checkout and you'll say fifty bucks on any mattress [TS]

  so here's the deal Casper created one perfect mattress for at least one [TS]

  technology for the mattress it is air their own custom version of foam [TS]

  mattress it is sort of like memory foam sort of like it's just the right balance [TS]

  that's the thing it's it's there it is always say that they're a lot like Apple [TS]

  where instead of coming into a mattress store and picking between ten different [TS]

  types of mattresses seven different types of foam or spring or this and you [TS]

  want this kind of sink you want this kind of ends now [TS]

  forget it Casper's engineers figured out the right type of foam that's the best [TS]

  for most people and that's it and then all you have to do is pick what size you [TS]

  want that's it you just pick what size it could not be easier and because they [TS]

  sell direct their one of these companies that just sells direct that's why [TS]

  they're doing the podcast at that's why they're there i'm talking to you about [TS]

  them is there's no middle man that's where all of these savings come Casper [TS]

  makes these things they make them right here in the USA by the way you go to the [TS]

  website you pick what size you want you put that the talkshow code and you say [TS]

  fifty bucks and boom next thing you know this box shows up at your house and [TS]

  you're like I cannot believe that there's an entire queen or king-sized [TS]

  mattress in this box you take it up to your bedroom you follow the little [TS]

  directions very simple of how you know the right way to open a box and then Shh [TS]

  boom of a sudden you have a brand-new very comfortable mattress right there in [TS]

  your bedroom couldn't be easier [TS]

  here's house here's how sure they are that you're gonna like it they have a [TS]

  hundred knight home trial you go there you buy it [TS]

  don't forget the code the talk show you say fifty bucks and if you don't love it [TS]

  within a hundred [TS]

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  hard time they don't try to talk me out of it they just say okay and then they [TS]

  schedule a time to come to your house and pick it up and they give you a full [TS]

  refund [TS]

  that's it and that it's like almost nobody does it because the mattress is [TS]

  so good I've heard from a couple breeders somebody wrote to me once and [TS]

  said that they did and that they were actually surprised at you know they [TS]

  thought this was going to be a nightmare getting rid of this mattress because [TS]

  they actually didn't like it and it was actually just as easy as I said you call [TS]

  them up they come they get it and you get all your money back to go to Casper [TS]

  calm / the talk show and remember that and next time in a mattress will say [TS]

  fifty bucks anything else on the apple store [TS]

  no I think it's gonna be interesting to see how how rapidly and how many of [TS]

  these new five special features they roll out to other stores [TS]

  how long does it take to happen yeah I II you know I bet fairly quickly but [TS]

  it's you know it's certainly interesting and it certainly does answer the [TS]

  question of what's Angela Ahrendts been up to [TS]

  yeah she's been busy and anyone who like again anyone who students on campus [TS]

  knows that she's been super engaging so busy since she took over just even the [TS]

  transition from the prior to Angela errands online and retail were separate [TS]

  operations and she's been unifying those anything that giant i'm online store [TS]

  makeover at the end of last year we took them right from that stuff was terribly [TS]

  outdated technology and they went like whether you like it or hate it you you [TS]

  can't browse anymore but a technologically speaking the new apple [TS]

  store take a flip the switch and it appeared one day which is a remarkable [TS]

  achievement [TS]

  yeah and you know it's it's got to be a stressful job D'Angela Lawrence because [TS]

  and I you know famous the apple doesn't really run by profit and loss centers [TS]

  you know there's no you know target for profit from the ipods and a target for [TS]

  profit from Max and I mean I'm sure they have internal goals but they don't run [TS]

  like a division like that but retail by definition i mean at the end of the day [TS]

  you know you you know there's these fixed costs like the lease of the [TS]

  building and all of the salaries for all of the employees and then there's how [TS]

  much money you made by selling products and it's you know if if there is you [TS]

  know like a decline in that it's going to you know be noticeable yeah an apple [TS]

  again famously doesn't have presidents but if you look at the size of the apple [TS]

  store business and you want some [TS]

  the itunes where they need marketing between all these divisions to make [TS]

  stuff for them it's much more than a branch like engineering or branch like [TS]

  Silicon technologies would need yeah it's you know it's an incredible [TS]

  operation really is i wonder how many stores they have no I forget the number [TS]

  but they was the anniversary i think the 15th or something anniversary yesterday [TS]

  with a time this [TS]

  yeah so from one store to another the app store and in the news lately [TS]

  developers something's they flip some sort of switch within the last two weeks [TS]

  or so and review times at the App Store haven't just gotten better it's like [TS]

  it's like overnight it went from a roughly one week review process like you [TS]

  is version 1.2 of my appt i'm submitting it to the app store for years I mean the [TS]

  entire life of the app store you know going back to $MONTH 2008 you could more [TS]

  or less expect about a week before your appt if if it goes through and [TS]

  everything is okay [TS]

  about a week before it is you get the email that says okay you know it's ready [TS]

  to go just hit this button and it will be live in the store and now it's it's [TS]

  one day and at times it's within a day [TS]

  there's a story cable sasser posted a tweet that one of the people at panic [TS]

  published not a panic capitals private appt in a personal appt at ten-thirty in [TS]

  the morning submitted it [TS]

  I got a notice at three thirty in the afternoon that there was a crasher and [TS]

  it was actually a legitimate chrysler so it was like hey thanks for finding this [TS]

  at five thirty or so submitted a fixed version and like by like nine o'clock at [TS]

  night it was ready to go [TS]

  830 at night it was ready to go so within a day they submitted [TS]

  hey guys submitted an app that found crashers resubmitted a fixed version and [TS]

  published it to the store so something's going on [TS]

  yeah it's super interesting to me because immediately everyone's like well [TS]

  Phil Schiller phil schiller but you know phil has been charged with a profuse [TS]

  since the beginning that's always been part of them of of his organization the [TS]

  way that evangelism is needed of dr is that's always been a phil schiller thing [TS]

  so I just wondered that now that filter has total control of the app store they [TS]

  did there's no more you know what we put on any what we put on Phil is anybody [TS]

  really look [TS]

  get this its we do we need this fixed Phil you're going in there to fix that [TS]

  it has to be fixed and that prompts a lot of action I I guess is that did what [TS]

  do you think is going on [TS]

  I mean I think it's a couple of things like one is you know well i'm not a [TS]

  developer but I think we've had apps just the company i work with has had [TS]

  apps in the App Store for a very long time and usually what i would seek some [TS]

  on the email chain is the app gets submitted and then you don't hear [TS]

  anything for about a week and then at the week . it says your app is now a [TS]

  review and then usually very quickly after that is either approved or [TS]

  rejected it [TS]

  so the actual review processes was always very very quick it was just a [TS]

  part getting your app into that review process that seemed to take a long time [TS]

  and then when the google play store famously switch to reviews that that gap [TS]

  was much less that they were doing something maybe not to the extent that [TS]

  Apple was doing it but they were they didn't have that long gap for your app [TS]

  we're going to review and that was really what seemed to be killer for [TS]

  people and now that app that gap is gone and my understanding is I forget how [TS]

  long it was maybe three or four weeks ago there was just a major reorg in that [TS]

  organization and they they change some things that I I think needed to be [TS]

  changing everybody involved knew that they needed to be changed talking mostly [TS]

  like I don't name names here but people probably know who were who was involved [TS]

  in an organization because they did get attention years ago that got moved and [TS]

  and those people are no longer there and it seems like that that was the fix that [TS]

  needed to be made at least is the high-level fix that need to be made to [TS]

  get this process on track [TS]

  yeah I wonder if the i think it was in January where they announce or maybe it [TS]

  was december yeah it looks like it was back in December so is at the end of the [TS]

  year and apple made an announcement where that just did they promote [TS]

  somebody I think that somebody got promoted to be a senior vice president [TS]

  and what's-his-name that the chip guy alternative energy [TS]

  yeah Johnny Sergey got promoted to senior vice president and they put the [TS]

  app store they did which used to be under any Q they moved it to fill [TS]

  Schiller's group and uh I I can't help but think it's not i don't even think [TS]

  it's like a film versus anything I think it's sort of a fell through the cracks [TS]

  thing [TS]

  because like you said app review was always part of developer relations and [TS]

  developer relations has been under phil schiller going back to the nineties i [TS]

  mean III as long as shoulders been there i think shoulders been in charge of all [TS]

  you know that the not that he runs it you know he's obviously got a lot of [TS]

  responsibilities but ultimately whoever's in charge of developer [TS]

  relations is a direct report to Phil Schiller and I can't help but think that [TS]

  having the app store as a everything else related to the appstore being under [TS]

  Eddie's group and review under Phil's group it just creates a crack that I [TS]

  think the sub optimal you know week long process which was obviously I I you know [TS]

  the app store is a huge success for Apple let's just look at this from [TS]

  Apple's perspective and I'm not trying to make excuses for it I'm just saying [TS]

  it objectively just no way you could argue that the app store especially on [TS]

  iOS is a tremendous success [TS]

  I mean it's in my opinion literally responsible for the fact that app is now [TS]

  word that everybody knows it is a common it's you know it's just a word that [TS]

  everybody knows that really wasn't the case before the iphone people didn't [TS]

  talk about apps at least outside you know our sphere and here it's a huge [TS]

  success [TS]

  so I think a lot of the complaints that have come inside come on what he [TS]

  complained about this thing is awesome [TS]

  whereas I think putting it all under fill' eliminates that crack and it is a [TS]

  lot easier to say look there's no but we can't pass the buck here we're the group [TS]

  in charge of this this isn't great a week-long review process is you know [TS]

  Apple can do better than that we can't you know we Apple can't say we don't [TS]

  have the resources to do better than this we have billions of dollars we [TS]

  couldn't should do better [TS]

  absolutely i'm so around that time there was a reworked in the marketing [TS]

  organization as well and you'll fill our took full responsibility for the app [TS]

  store but at the same time you let someone like great jobs back was also [TS]

  phenomenal took on full product marketing responsibilities cross the [TS]

  range of apple products like iOS devices anymore and i think that a lot of them [TS]

  to sort of focus down on these issues and avoid anything slipping through the [TS]

  cracks but also [TS]

  as Apple scales socialist phenomenal lady was phenomenal at craig Venter case [TS]

  phenomenal but the amount of product that they have to ship now is [TS]

  exponentially bigger than what the internship several years ago and they're [TS]

  still human beings and they can't they can't look at everything all the time so [TS]

  having people who have that more focused responsibility i think it is really [TS]

  great like I for a long time all I wanted from Apple was a front-facing [TS]

  vice president of App Store and what skills surely not keep any better than [TS]

  that world because Phyllis it's funny because you have certain personalities [TS]

  from the Apple groups like always seems like everything's group is slightly you [TS]

  know louder shirts and a little a little looser going and filler is like very [TS]

  very focused and and really cares about the user experience they don't have [TS]

  these distinct personalities but giving him the app store and letting it run and [TS]

  I think regardless of whether the organization has always been his lesson [TS]

  focus down on that and say hey if if I'm waking up today and I want to make apps [TS]

  for a phenomenal product and not just for developers but for users because if [TS]

  I there's a plugin app I don't want that plug for a weekend with that bug fixed [TS]

  immediately and be having to wait for a developer to get a review i feel bad for [TS]

  the developer behind my bug fix this i think there's a really big facing [TS]

  customer issue [TS]

  what do you think so what do you think they're doing differently i think the [TS]

  part that I think it's just they made personnel changes that they really [TS]

  should have made years ago I mean likely when you do we need to hear what was [TS]

  going on behind some of this like you we see the stuff on the outside but Apple [TS]

  people inside Apple field of stuff feel the same kind of pain we do it in AC [TS]

  decisions that don't make any sense of reversals and things like that and just [TS]

  it kept coming back to sort of the same group people and and rewarding that [TS]

  seems to have taken care of that so like I don't know if there is technical [TS]

  issues they change to but it just seems like this really coincided with [TS]

  reorganizing out it has to be there has to be procedural differences though [TS]

  there has to be something that they're doing procedurally that is different [TS]

  than what they were doing before it because it's it's just even just [TS]

  throwing more reviewers at it if it was a backlog I don't think would result in [TS]

  same day submissions i know i just was listening to ATP this morning and I know [TS]

  Marco had the exact same experience where it he had a same-day approval of [TS]

  an overcast update [TS]

  which it just had the same day is it [TS]

  that's just not how the app store looks so something is different procedurally I [TS]

  i think that with this reorg the reorg put people in place who were willing to [TS]

  institute the procedural changes that we're seeing and I think one of them it [TS]

  has to be something where where they've enabled reviewers to sort of look at the [TS]

  history of a developer i'm just guessing this i'm just a guess but let's say okay [TS]

  here's a nap [TS]

  it's from Marco Arment and here's the history of submissions that he's made [TS]

  its a look at how many do you know this is a very popular app and here's how [TS]

  many updates he has submitted he's never liked abused the system by like i like i [TS]

  can't help but think that if you like started submitting builds daily that if [TS]

  you just like every single like if you started submitting like the equivalent [TS]

  of nightly builds yes you're not going to get same-day approval I think that [TS]

  they're going to you know i would guess look at the history and put the brakes [TS]

  on that and say no but if your history is wow that you've never been a problem [TS]

  you know this is obviously a legitimate app here let's just make sure that there [TS]

  are no crashers you know it's open it up and and go through and see that [TS]

  everything works okay there you go you're you're through [TS]

  yeah and it's I think it's exactly that i think it's it's putting together a [TS]

  smart system and what I liked about cables tweet 2 is that caused the crash [TS]

  crash was fixed then the app one out so it's not just they're not just so [TS]

  suddenly opening the gates a fine to get rid of the backlog special apps out [TS]

  there running those instruments and they're running those tests and they're [TS]

  finding those things and then that flags and maybe they're paying better [TS]

  attention to say we caught this blog I all the guys resubmitted let's go [TS]

  nothing else was wrong with it and maybe just they got rid of people whose [TS]

  opinions were not congruent or weren't easy to work with or word holding back [TS]

  other people because it really it if you think about it linearly should not be a [TS]

  preview or making choices about what is and what isn't proper user experience as [TS]

  well it's all realms of other people at Apple much better position to do that [TS]

  before and after every hits review so it getting out getting all that out of the [TS]

  way and putting in that system and then just applying it i think is the key to [TS]

  seeing now [TS]

  yeah i think so but it's very very good news [TS]

  and I just you know it's one of those rare things that there is no downside to [TS]

  this whatsoever there is no so whatever they're doing an apple whoever if you're [TS]

  listening and you work in developer relations the entire world of [TS]

  third-party developers says thank you [TS]

  yeah I mean I absolutely had to go back to you . they got the app store is a [TS]

  phenomenal business for apple and developers do have pain . and it's [TS]

  really hard it's not hard but it's hard emotionally to sort out a lot of friends [TS]

  are developers and you'll go to WWDC and see the appstore labs and a developer go [TS]

  in there and see I made a great app you're going to feature it and they like [TS]

  what's your marketing plan developers don't need one you going to feature it [TS]

  right there [TS]

  they're like well will feel even if we do feature that's one week out of 51 you [TS]

  know what are you doing for the other 51 weeks and that's the kind of thing that [TS]

  absolutely can't really fix they'll never be able to let the matter how good [TS]

  your app is they'll never be able to artificially make it app especially in [TS]

  the climate we are now but they can fix a lot of things like search searches a [TS]

  solved problem i type in 20 baht actually get to it but it should be this [TS]

  no discussion about that anymore google can handle that I think alta vista [TS]

  handle that but it's still something that's not workable on the app store and [TS]

  I don't understand the technical reasons like I understand the infrastructure [TS]

  reasons but you know there [TS]

  why doesn't it wasn't their metadata layer that just the intermediates that [TS]

  stuff and then finds goes to the old-school database system pulls likely [TS]

  results and gives me that in search widens sloppy search nearest neighbor [TS]

  all these things these can help developers if i search for twitter i [TS]

  should get relevant results not just a linear like in it all this has twitter [TS]

  the name I want we bought in that in that result and that sort of thing I [TS]

  think that affects customers and effects developers and it's something that Apple [TS]

  Apple absolutely knows about that and they feel that pain but those are sort [TS]

  of things that i really hope they figure that fixed sooner rather than later it [TS]

  they yeah that it's gotta be I hope so I hope that this is a sign that makes me [TS]

  think that i would bet on them fixing the App Store search in the near future [TS]

  just because it seems like somebody's paying attention to these little [TS]

  long-standing issues and that's another one that's super long standing and I've [TS]

  made the exact same argument I don't care how hard a check [TS]

  uncle problem it is Apple is it cannot cry poor right yes they and and it is it [TS]

  you know however hard it is it's obviously been solved and so that you [TS]

  know the standard is the bar is google right and I should you should not be [TS]

  able to get better search results by typing into Google box like your example [TS]

  tweet bot iOS you should not have ios app you should not get be more likely to [TS]

  be led to tweet pot then if you type Tweetbot in the app store it's got to be [TS]

  that good and it's you know it can't be as hard as web search because web [TS]

  searches searching everything you're only searching this I don't care how [TS]

  many at you know million apps you have your only searching your own apps i I [TS]

  just feel like Apple got burned by the whatever original algorithm they use for [TS]

  search where they trusted the metadata from developers and open the door to [TS]

  being scammed that's I mean it's a huge part of the problem with the search [TS]

  results is that you get search results that are unrelated and if you actually [TS]

  like look at the metadata it's that they've put like in in their list of [TS]

  keywords that you know we want to be searched by they put competing app games [TS]

  in which is supposed to be against the rules but it obviously doesn't get flag [TS]

  yeah I mean to go back to your to your pointer to go i i i i believe is the [TS]

  customers job to protect me even from myself so I really a very hesitant to [TS]

  ever play user for something and if I'm doing something wrong [TS]

  that's fine i'm doing wrong but its toll if I'm using a company like Apple I want [TS]

  them to do everything possible to stop me from making mistakes and I don't even [TS]

  need keywords like that that's part of the point is bewildering to me is that [TS]

  you just and I hate saying this because it's so easy to say how you can fix [TS]

  these things but i'm just talking about i type in Tweetbot without and i miss [TS]

  the eat because I'm human and make a spelling mistake and it doesn't result [TS]

  doesn't rely on keywords at all that just you have a database of things and [TS]

  you know how to do nearest labor and search widening and basic things that [TS]

  search has been doing for a decade and you know what was with the most popular [TS]

  result is that's close to that one and you provide me with that result because [TS]

  that's that's what i want and you kind of do that extra work to give me what I [TS]

  want and it sort of feels like iTunes which is the the overarching instructor [TS]

  all this was built the app store is built on the itunes store [TS]

  originally designed to handle music all of this to me is almost like apple's [TS]

  version of windows XP where you have just a legacy product that needs to [TS]

  serve hundreds of millions of people with an incredibly diverse range of use [TS]

  cases like jim dalrymple wants 10 versions of every ozzy osbourne song to [TS]

  play exactly the one he wants whenever he wants it wants it but I i just want [TS]

  Syria to say you don't play me the smooth criminal cover-up likely and it [TS]

  just does it and I have zero music in my library and then there's some someone [TS]

  who just bought an ipod nano at best buy and wants to think that on their windows [TS]

  pc using itunes over a cable and you also on top of that you have billions of [TS]

  dollars of transactions moving through it and the person at virgin music who [TS]

  knows how to use the crazy backend of itunes the way Bloomberg terminal person [TS]

  knows how to use Bloomberg and they just have to upload their entire music [TS]

  catalog for that week and they think would want anything to change because [TS]

  they know how to do it even if it is horrible and balancing all of that it's [TS]

  super easy on the internet to say just fix itunes and just fix this i would not [TS]

  want that job it just sounds like again like another one was impossible jobs to [TS]

  me but it is one of those jobs at apple has to figure out and fix because it's [TS]

  not getting any better [TS]

  yeah you know it's it's just the fact of human nature where were a terrible [TS]

  dishonest species clicks collectively you can't trust metadata I mean right i [TS]

  mean this it sounds laughable but in the old days you know in the nineties there [TS]

  is a time or search engines you you'd put the meta tag in your HTML and be [TS]

  like meta and here you're supposed to list like a handful of keywords that are [TS]

  like what is this page about and search engines would take those and actually [TS]

  like trust them and so as soon as people figured out that the search engines [TS]

  actually trust them they would just start loading it up with anything and [TS]

  everything to get SEO it was keywords nothing it's ridiculous and of course [TS]

  anything that can be abused is going to be abused and unfortunately the app [TS]

  store it can be abused and it is it's you know you see at any time you type [TS]

  like a popular apt name and always unrelated app show up and it's like what [TS]

  the hell is that listed [TS]

  yeah which is what google solved for x you they originally had like Authority [TS]

  and now I think they're judging and social shares and other things like that [TS]

  you try to determine the authority of the result and give people the results [TS]

  that are widely respected not just the ones that are they have no data that [TS]

  you're looking for right like that it's the actual actions of users that Google [TS]

  trust including things like being able to see like okay you search for x y&z [TS]

  and we made this the second result but you clicked it that's the one you click [TS]

  and then I search for x y&z and it's the second result but it's the one I clicked [TS]

  because I realized that what I want and they're like what that must be a good [TS]

  result for x y&z maybe we should make that the top result for x y&z because [TS]

  all these people are clicking you know they do things like that that's that [TS]

  can't be cheated i guess you could try to cheat by having you know bots [TS]

  clicking or whatever but google you know fights against it anyway at it needs to [TS]

  be the app store needs to be as good as google search . yes for just wraps right [TS]

  yeah they get but it's again like I don't know if you caught me search for [TS]

  email but I was trying to search for email this morning to find something I [TS]

  knew was there and it was inside the email app it's a nightmare and but you [TS]

  gotta spotlight works fucking know whatever whatever they're doing it this [TS]

  way there just has to be a better way of doing it and I know they walk this back [TS]

  they're going to have this process because you're super concerned about [TS]

  privacy where they would surface apps online for you if you are looking for [TS]

  them but they they they know who has what app installed so if if the twitter [TS]

  app is installed in everyone's life when you give me that first but if Tweetbot [TS]

  is on is the second-most install twitter app in the iOS ecosystem show me that [TS]

  second because likely i'm really happy with it let me take another break here [TS]

  and thank our next sponsor it is our good friends at warby parker warby [TS]

  parker makes buying glasses online easy and risk-free go to warby parker calm / [TS]

  the talk show and order your FREE Home try on today I've got worried Parker's [TS]

  I've got their great glasses that it could not be an easier way to shop for [TS]

  glasses you go to the website and you start picking out the ones you want you [TS]

  can pick up to five of them and if you only find like three you can disorder 3 [TS]

  and they'll throw and they'll just take a guess and just [TS]

  go into exercise then like two days later you get a box in the mail and it [TS]

  has five tryon versions of these of the classes that you picked the five that [TS]

  you picked you know we're just regular you know non-prescription lenses you go [TS]

  you try mon you ask you know ask ask the people you do you live with your friends [TS]

  UD like these do not like these you look in the mirror you find the ones you like [TS]

  you send them all back and they already have a sticker you just put the sticker [TS]

  on the same box it just goes right back to worry Parker with these trial ones [TS]

  and then a week later so the ones that you picked come with your prescription [TS]

  and that's it and it's so much cheaper than buying in like an eyeglass boutique [TS]

  i think it starts at just 95 fox and they don't they don't upsell you on [TS]

  coatings for the lenses you want coatings you want anti-glare you wanted [TS]

  a nice line ever you just get the nice lenses with an anti-glare coating that's [TS]

  just the default they have a titanium collection [TS]

  these are like the metal ones that starts at just a hundred and forty five [TS]

  dollars and that includes prescription lenses and that's with premium Japanese [TS]

  titanium and French non rocking screws even pay attention to the little details [TS]

  like putting nice cruise in there they also offer and it's that time of the [TS]

  year where the sun's gettin out they offer prescription and non-prescription [TS]

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  for you or be Parker you can get really good really cool sunglasses even if you [TS]

  don't need prescription so you get good lenses anti-glare all of that you get [TS]

  really cool-looking frames you get to try them on at home [TS]

  nothing could be better it's really really great and if you even if you have [TS]

  a strong prescription like I do I very strong prescription they offer uh [TS]

  ultra-thin high index lenses so that you don't you're the actual lenses aren't [TS]

  think back in the old days if you had a strong prescription the stronger [TS]

  prescription the thicker lenses were that you got that when they come [TS]

  coke-bottle glasses you don't get that warby parker they have high index that [TS]

  means that they can do a strong prescription in a very thin lines I [TS]

  could not be happier as a customer of warby parker they are just great [TS]

  so go to war be part if you need glasses of any kind just go to Warby Parker . [TS]

  com / the talk show and you'll get a free home try-on [TS]

  and free shipping both ways and no obligation to buy so if you don't want [TS]

  to buy you get five min don't like it no obligation [TS]

  so once again warby parker calm / the talk show and I thank them for [TS]

  sponsoring the talk show [TS]

  uh what else is going on there's Google i/o yep i watched the keynote and for [TS]

  the first time ever I really thought that Google did a good job i was the [TS]

  first time I thought wow that was a really good keynote but I had I had [TS]

  mixed feelings on like I thought some of the techniques I thought some of the [TS]

  technologies were more impressive than the way that they were presented I could [TS]

  see that and I do think that their their culture [TS]

  I you know and again months away most companies work apple is the exception [TS]

  where Apple tends to have fewer people on stage on Apple's pacing in a keynote [TS]

  is always better than everybody else's and for someone like me who's default [TS]

  keynote two watches an apple keynote it makes everybody else's seem a little [TS]

  like come on tighten this up even a time it takes even the time it takes to pass [TS]

  off to the next presenter it is longer in a google keynote than apple keynote [TS]

  well tangentially like we do this thing's pretty Caldwell adjacent cell [TS]

  and sometimes I help out where we transcribe CEO Tim Cook historically his [TS]

  comments and i had to do that for [TS]

  we have a site now Tesla central for elon musk's last conference call and it [TS]

  was so difficult because Tim Cook is such a clean speaker and even must every [TS]

  second word was like and and he would interrupt himself through half of you [TS]

  half way through every sentence and it was incredibly hard to transcribe them [TS]

  and it made me really appreciate this [TS]

  how well apples like just not not just what they say but how polished they all [TS]

  our speakers [TS]

  yeah because ultimately in a transcription like that you're not doing [TS]

  like a legal transcription where you're documenting every single word out of the [TS]

  mouth you really want to get like a [TS]

  here's what he meant to say transcription not that you want to put [TS]

  words in his mouth but if he's you know adds an extra like or numb or something [TS]

  like that you don't want that in the transcription what you're doing is [TS]

  trying to make a transcription that's easier for your readers to learn what he [TS]

  had to say like an idealized version of that what he said exactly exactly that's [TS]

  the right way to do it and he had it's like with Tim Cook it's a lot closer to [TS]

  the idealized version right out of his mouth [TS]

  yeah and the same thing like so I i watch them it was super interesting they [TS]

  have you chat apps and I'm i just don't need new chat apps i have so many of [TS]

  them already so it would have been nice if those were sort of expansion of [TS]

  existing services i understand this but they did this one duo which is just real [TS]

  time it's like facetime but the minute the call comes in it's already streaming [TS]

  live video and to me I just know I'm going to get people sending me junk like [TS]

  they did their job specifically right away and you'll be no way to appoint I [TS]

  don't think I don't know that's not gonna work on iOS though it won't but I [TS]

  mean just the idea that like the idea of giving someone a direct like bacon they [TS]

  can just pop up in your eyeballs to me as a recipe for disaster because he was [TS]

  like you said before he was cannot be trusted this technology well let's go [TS]

  through the stuff in order will start with the google home now this leak the [TS]

  night before but it's not a surprise it is and it was nice sundar Pichai [TS]

  actually called out [TS]

  amazon inside amazon's been doing good work in this area it which is sort of a [TS]

  tacit acknowledgement that this is a direct competitor it's not like a [TS]

  tangential competitor it is absolutely a dead-on direct competitor to the Amazon [TS]

  echo and that the court you know that the family of devices that amazon has [TS]

  developed around it it is 8 so Google home is a little siracusa calls it a [TS]

  weeble wobble remember the Weeble wobbles [TS]

  yeah it looks to me like an air freshener the Weeble in her wobble but [TS]

  they won't fall they don't fall down [TS]

  ah so it's a little speaker pretty small surprisingly small could I thought when [TS]

  they first showed the product shots i thought it was going to be more like [TS]

  echo sized echo height and it's a lot smaller than the echo so you plug it in [TS]

  it is and always listening speaker and you say like hey google to it and you [TS]

  can start calm you know [TS]

  a voice driven this just in conversation with it [TS]

  yeah it was interesting to meet a couple vectors first amazon amazon has been [TS]

  given a huge amount of credit for the Amazon echo and for alexa but what [TS]

  always strikes me is that it is the US only product and i believe still [TS]

  unilingual product and it's impressive what they do with it but the solution [TS]

  set that they have to offer is so incredibly small compared to what Apple [TS]

  or Google or offering with multilingual support and for example with the apple [TS]

  TV series not only does multilingual support but they can do multiple [TS]

  languages within the same query like I can I speak French too so i can in [TS]

  French ask for an english movie title and that is an incredibly hard problem [TS]

  to solve that Apple is solving and as far as i know Alexa is nowhere near so [TS]

  yeah Alexis handles like sandals American English queries really really [TS]

  well but I think it's impossible this point to not realize that just how far [TS]

  ahead google really is and that sort of Technology and I'm hopeful that by [TS]

  introducing this it won't it'll be an english-only American product that will [TS]

  be something that becomes competitive internationally [TS]

  I you know is google home us all right i think it might be starting that way I [TS]

  want the whole thing was kind of weird to me because they interpret I I think [TS]

  he was the one giving the the home pitch at least in the beginning was he started [TS]

  off basically saying how wonderful it was that Google understood context and [TS]

  he basically described the sequential inference engine that Siri launched with [TS]

  like you you could do the kind of like that's what I meant by the presentations [TS]

  was impressive technology the things that he that he said Google home could [TS]

  do the things that serious done for years and things that Apple TV launched [TS]

  with months ago and I i believe i firmly believe this technology is beyond what [TS]

  Apple's doing with Syria right now but he didn't show me that he made it sound [TS]

  like Google was invented the very basics of voice assistance and i will say and I [TS]

  spoke about this last week on my show I guess it was two weeks ago but the last [TS]

  episode with ben thompson who Ben Thompson is a bit is more of a bowl on [TS]

  the echo and I know Marco Arment is too [TS]

  and i think the difference i'm not i just got 1a few weeks ago at the because [TS]

  those guys were saying how good it was and I really really do think that this [TS]

  voice driven assistant thing is in the coming decade going to be it's like the [TS]

  new touch [TS]

  not that it's going to replace touch but it we're on the cusp of getting this to [TS]

  be really useful and therefore it's it's definitely going to happen and so I'm [TS]

  really want to stay up to date with what everybody's doing and it's easier for me [TS]

  to do it cuz i'm in the US and I speak english so i can use the Amazons product [TS]

  i think that those two are much happier with the echo than I am because they [TS]

  have a lot of smart home stuff in their houses that that hook up to the echo and [TS]

  i don't i don't have any smart light bulbs or anything like that and so [TS]

  therefore what the echo does for me is almost nothing [TS]

  it's you know i can get the weather and even that even with the weather it's [TS]

  like a lot of times I just want to know the temperature because I can see [TS]

  outside whether it's raining or not but I gets in our kitchen and we have you [TS]

  know a window like like humans do so I could see what if it's sunny or overcast [TS]

  rainy i just want to know how if I need a jacket and if I ask Alexa for the [TS]

  temperature she gives me the whole weather including the temperature but [TS]

  the temperature doesn't come until like halfway through the weather report and [TS]

  all I you know it [TS]

  yes sirree is better at stuff like that like you can ask Siri for the weather [TS]

  and you get a whole weather forecast but if you just ask for the temperature [TS]

  outside she'll just tell you the temperature and I've had to be more [TS]

  useful there's there's several things I hear that at least for me or are really [TS]

  interesting that Amazon again that product is stuck in your house and I [TS]

  have Siri on my wrist to have it in my pocket I have it on my lap with my ipad [TS]

  and maybe soon with the mac and i also that's why Siri goes with me everywhere [TS]

  and that means that everything that i have connected to series with me [TS]

  everywhere and i do have a lot of the connector technology in my house like I [TS]

  have a lot of the few lightbulbs for example but also LED panels that i use [TS]

  for video podcasting are connected to an ihome plug because you know there's no [TS]

  Hugh lightbulb giant LED panels but because I named them correctly if I say [TS]

  turn on my studio lights it knows that the plug is called the light too so it [TS]

  just turns it on and something every light is on there and I say make the [TS]

  lights purple [TS]

  it does all those things and its way money like what are you using to drive [TS]

  that sirree yes sirree does all that for me and how did you connect that to Siri [TS]

  so it's eerie works through home kits or anything that's home kiddo where we'll [TS]

  just we'll work with a series of commands with Syria has triggers and it [TS]

  has rooms and it has advanced and has all sorts of really really fun a really [TS]

  powerful stuff that you can use it already [TS]

  I so I don't this is something I need to catch up on but I how do you configure [TS]

  cell phone home kit is their home kidnap I don't even know so there's the [TS]

  internally there's a home is a home out they haven't yet the rumor is you know [TS]

  every year they say they're going to ship it and the rumors will ship this [TS]

  year but you can configure it in any home kiddo we're out that i bought a [TS]

  ten-dollar up off the app store called home that's really good that just shows [TS]

  me every room in the house and every device that's connected to an every [TS]

  state of it i can make quick changes and it very quickly so you is because I [TS]

  honestly didn't wouldn't even know where to start like if a whole bunch of home [TS]

  kit stuff showed up at my house and I plugged it in and I don't even know [TS]

  where to start on that in that iOS you're saying you just you gotta get a [TS]

  nap and so you got an app called home and home is a third-party app that you [TS]

  pay ten bucks for and it uses apples home kit api's that they've been talking [TS]

  about for a while to to allow you to just set this stuff up and use the [TS]

  camera to scan the barcode on devices set up for you give it a name you sign [TS]

  into a room you can have multiple houses set up at you you can to iCloud you can [TS]

  control things remotely so that i'm not at home i can still use Siri on my phone [TS]

  for example to control thought the lights in the house it works really [TS]

  really well and because it's not for me i was that has big problems and that is [TS]

  again they're us focus but it's very including that one could ever have a [TS]

  presence in China because they have their own retailers i have their own [TS]

  survey and I want a product that if I'm in Europe you know still works great for [TS]

  me and if I'm traveling on business to orphan child I speak very bad manners by [TS]

  speak a little bit mandarin and Syria supports that sporty brew it does all [TS]

  these things to me that makes it much it has the potential to be a much greater [TS]

  solution and I think so does google now than anything amazon is fielding Marco [TS]

  described who are not google alexa that the as a sort of like a voice driven [TS]

  command-line mean yes that it's in the same way that a command line at the [TS]

  terminal you have to put the [TS]

  the arguments in the exact right order it is rigid like that the command line [TS]

  is not plain English you know you don't just type show me a list of the files in [TS]

  this folder you have to type LS and if you type LS / r dash a you get all of [TS]

  them and you know the arguments have to be the exact right way and then once you [TS]

  learn those arguments to alexa in the right order to put them it is very very [TS]

  reliable and it's you know it's all you know nearing a hundred percent accuracy [TS]

  that that the voice recognition will recognize it will quickly parse it and [TS]

  will quickly get the result back in the cloud but that's exactly why I think I [TS]

  now i'm not going to say a dead end because they can obviously scrap it and [TS]

  replace it with a new engine at some point but i just feel though that that [TS]

  rigidity that's what Marco like that's what Ben Thompson likes about it that [TS]

  it's dependable because you can learn it but I also feel like ultimately its [TS]

  limiting because there's gonna be so many things we want to use these things [TS]

  for and I I don't know I i know a lot of people out there every time I mention [TS]

  that Syria is actually gotten a lot better and it's is noticeably improved [TS]

  to me in every way both in terms of the speed like when i justjust want to and I [TS]

  know attributing at all to Siri is is not quite right because like if I'm just [TS]

  in my message and and I want i'm walking on the sidewalk so I want to dictate a [TS]

  text message that's not really serie it's just the voice recognition but it [TS]

  does go round trip to the cloud and it is so much faster than it used to be [TS]

  it's really even local on the latest iPhones if you can connect it will still [TS]

  watch dictation locally right we'll do some of it locally [TS]

  I'm it's gotten so much better it's super useful to me but I actually do use [TS]

  Siri quite a bit and there's so many things that Siri can do and and that if [TS]

  i just take a guess whether you know that seems like something serious could [TS]

  do i'm often right and one of them example is that Siri now knows the point [TS]

  spreads for like NFL games NBA games so like if you will I wanted to know what [TS]

  the . spread was for the second Golden State Warriors Oklahoma City game [TS]

  because I wanted to see if it went up because everybody was expecting golden [TS]

  state to win because they lost game one [TS]

  and Cirie instantly knew the point spread and I thought wonderful extra can [TS]

  do that [TS]

  no no no chance this it's it's I used to be all the time to let go if i'm driving [TS]

  i'll just use Siri and have an idea for an article just tell her to take a note [TS]

  and it comes out well enough that I can quickly put an article together but [TS]

  beyond that what i really like about it is it does do that sequential inference [TS]

  so if I say turn on my studio lights it turns on the lights just in the studio [TS]

  and I say makeup purple it knows that I'm still talking about the light so it [TS]

  makes the lights purple if I say make them white it'll say I can't make them [TS]

  white but i can turn them into sunlight and to me that that's kind of tedious [TS]

  because like just understand that I need to have any way to do it don't give me [TS]

  the back chat but at least he's smart enough to not do what I was complaining [TS]

  about before that is to widen its search and figure out what i want and do that [TS]

  even if it's not exactly what I was not doing exactly what I asked for [TS]

  yeah so one of the things that Google home does that seems really interesting [TS]

  is it integrates with chromecast's that you might have in your house and there [TS]

  is an interesting demo in in the demo video they had were the there's a little [TS]

  boy asking something some kind of question about space or something like [TS]

  that and then he just said put it on the TV and it put whatever he was searching [TS]

  for on the TV now some of that is a bit of a cheap because the TV you know at [TS]

  least my TV but you you would actually have to already have picked the [TS]

  chromecast is the hdmi input in the TV would have to already be on but still [TS]

  that's pretty that's a pretty cool trick it [TS]

  yeah there's a lot of things in there that seemed almost cause I magical and I [TS]

  one of the big things especially the Amazon echo is the API access and you've [TS]

  probably heard the same as I am that these rumors of Serie A p is for years [TS]

  but out right now Apple has not shipped in a app Siri API so third-party [TS]

  software and services are beyond homepage can't access it and that does [TS]

  women what it can do but i'm wondering when we eventually do get that new apple [TS]

  remote app will have sort of built the ability to control certain apple TV [TS]

  through our iPhone because Apple is very good at sort of leveraging all the [TS]

  technologies with things like continuity and hand off that will will get sort of [TS]

  those abilities and maybe Google is using the same thing that you'll see [TS]

  remote doesn't it turns it on that the hdmi throughput tells TV and everything [TS]

  else to go to the right place and if you have things [TS]

  back right setup it all works a little bit of credits that is as far as i know [TS]

  it's not shipping for months though so it's still a preview never know how much [TS]

  of a preview will actually be finished and ready enough to launch the product [TS]

  was out the door yet nothing I don't think anything that they announced in [TS]

  the keynote yesterday is shipping it even the software like Android and still [TS]

  in beta and the device is quote later this fall or something like that even [TS]

  the the chat apps are such i think they said summer or something like that [TS]

  i do question big picture I mean I well do you think so now of the three have [TS]

  Amazon Apple and Google now two of the three have announced this echo like [TS]

  standalone voice assistant device and no screen just speaker you talk to it and [TS]

  get audio out of it [TS]

  device do you think Apple [TS]

  device do you think Apple [TS]

  would ship a product like that i mean like the rumors of them doing that for a [TS]

  while and it was all mixed into I think the apple TV is was a really complicated [TS]

  project they weren't many many directions with it you know that are [TS]

  different than what they ultimately ship but there was this idea that it would be [TS]

  the central home hub and with service wasn't nexus for controlling everything [TS]

  within your house and ultimately didn't go that way but there's a lot of choices [TS]

  that apple would have to make to make that product look at the apple TV they [TS]

  very clearly said that you have to hold down this button when you talk to Siri [TS]

  and that's fine when you're just sitting there in front of your TV with remote [TS]

  but if you want a ubiquitous device that that's like echo or that's like the [TS]

  Google home device you have to eliminate that you have to just let people talk to [TS]

  it which means you have to have a live mic in the living room almost like [TS]

  Microsoft did that with kinect as well [TS]

  an apple is the company has to be willing to say we're going to put a live [TS]

  mic in your living room and this is very counter to what they've done with their [TS]

  products previously yeah i don't know i don't think Apple would do this and I'm [TS]

  I i think that these voice driven assistants are absolutely positively [TS]

  going to be there already useful but they're going to be way you know in 10 [TS]

  years so now we're going to look back and say how do we how do we get by [TS]

  without him I'm not sure that this standalone speaker microphone of devices [TS]

  the form factor to do it because it doesn't seem to scale and I know people [TS]

  ask i don't know i know some people were asking like what do you know what if you [TS]

  have multiple of these google home devices you know one on each floor did [TS]

  they work together and the answer is not yet [TS]

  like I'm not quite sure that that's the answer to how you have this everywhere [TS]

  you want it is by setting up these speaker devices that you know I almost [TS]

  feel like the speaker devices should be dumb terminals not yes central hub [TS]

  yeah I mean to have the speaker and say play the meeting i'm going to play this [TS]

  song right now and then it comes out and it sounds good and it's there to help [TS]

  listen but i don't think i think it should just be like a dumb terminal it [TS]

  shouldn't really be the hub [TS]

  yeah i went to a demo at nuance 60 in terms of the actual opposite of that is [TS]

  going to add anything you want as a hell of a press event and I want to look at [TS]

  it and they were showing their version of this and it was a couple years ago [TS]

  but they wanted to make sure that if you were talking you know your kid couldn't [TS]

  interrupt you so you could snap your fingers twice and you have a camera [TS]

  three microphones beam for monument as you walked around it would stay locked [TS]

  to you so you could talk and nobody else would get me crosstalking on that and it [TS]

  seems like the most overwrought of all these possible solutions but then the [TS]

  other day I was raising my arm to just stretch and I wanted to talk to i want [TS]

  to ask Siri something so I said you know Cirie and because i was moving my arm my [TS]

  Apple watch activated because i had an iphone with me the iphone activated by I [TS]

  9.7 inch iPad pro activated because the 12-inch was plugged in that activated as [TS]

  well so I had lie i just said to turn on the lights and in all these 45 water [TS]

  says we were said yes yes all at once the lights just went on so I don't know [TS]

  which one was ultimately responsible for it but it means like there's just so [TS]

  much potential for collision and and sort of figuring out what is the [TS]

  behavior like how do you know which device is closest to me and you know [TS]

  which one I'm talking to you because maybe my watch is closer but I didn't [TS]

  move it so series not listening and maybe buy my iphone is across the room [TS]

  in my mac is in my lap but i really am talking to my iphone and solving those [TS]

  are interesting problems [TS]

  yeah i would say it's exactly the point I was going to make is that ok i don't [TS]

  think that this echo like speaker thing is the ultimate solution to this to the [TS]

  what is the device you by to have this interaction with the voice assistant but [TS]

  conversely i don't know that Apple's you know like let's just have hay and then [TS]

  the name of the yeah I don't want to have to be put out hast you know [TS]

  no sirree hey you know I I think I don't think that's the answer either to have [TS]

  it on all of your devices because I've had the situation to where you try it [TS]

  and multiple devices are plugged in and they all answer or you know the iphone [TS]

  doesn't have to be plugged in anymore [TS]

  yeah so I don't know what the answer is I you know it's but it's definitely [TS]

  coming and I thought that some of the stuff that that they showed in that the [TS]

  google home is really impressive but then some of it too is also it's it's so [TS]

  hand-wavy it's like a serious it's like you know like I could see like the the [TS]

  mom in the video she heard she got a notice that our flight was delayed by [TS]

  half an hour [TS]

  and it's like you know what number one nobody ever your flight is never delayed [TS]

  by half an hour [TS]

  like if it's half an hour delayed that you just bored late they don't give you [TS]

  a warning if your flights donate it's like ours but i think they wanted to [TS]

  make it like a nice happy story so its value flights delayed by half an hour [TS]

  and so she said move my dinner reservation from 730 28 and it worked [TS]

  and I could see that working because it's surely through opentable and I [TS]

  think open tables ATP is would would allow that to work but there are there [TS]

  other things that that they did that it just seemed like come on that's that's [TS]

  too easy [TS]

  I you know I i absolutely agree and one of the things about this technology is [TS]

  it really is a parallel interface like we will still have our tactical [TS]

  interfaces the natural language voice so powerful that will have these running in [TS]

  parallel and we won't really see it we've taken years to evolve just a lot [TS]

  of the basic things we now take for granted on the old mouse interfaces and [TS]

  now on and on the two gesture-based interfaces and it'll take some time to [TS]

  sort of one of the things I worry about is immediately like I forget it was this [TS]

  demo or the other demo we're just said you know buy movie tickets and I'm [TS]

  petrified this ever since the iMessage changes I'm yesterday I shared my [TS]

  location with somebody by accident because it was instant and it wasn't it [TS]

  wasn't a person that was a problem for but location is highly sensitive [TS]

  information to be hitting that by accident and not having sort of a [TS]

  confirm deny requests in between that was hugely problematic for me and the [TS]

  same idea with you like just get movie tickets just make a reservation and I [TS]

  can go back and say oh no don't make them but just did it we don't seem to [TS]

  have all the steps that we have on our traditional interfaces get established [TS]

  for this [TS]

  yeah I know siracusa called out the get indian food and it was like yeah it'll [TS]

  be at your house and it's like no but no confirmation is that what you're [TS]

  ordering or what restaurant it's just ok there will be indian food in a bag on [TS]

  your porch by the time you get home and it's like come on and it is the back [TS]

  yeah it's one of those things it's really hard to do by voice and it would [TS]

  have to it would necessarily require a lot of back-and-forth right over it it [TS]

  should more or less be the same amount of back and forth that you would have if [TS]

  you actually called the restaurant and talk to a person you can have a standing [TS]

  like you could have gone to the trouble of presetting like this is my span order [TS]

  if I don't see anything else is the auto but that's a lot of faffing work they [TS]

  show off in the beginning and otherwise exactly to your point that there are [TS]

  some times when it's faster just topic but because your brain is reading all [TS]

  the information on the screen and can react to it you know with fingers and [TS]

  taps faster than it could you have a long involved conversation with [TS]

  something [TS]

  yeah soldier i think i'm gonna buy one of these but I don't know that i'm going [TS]

  to leave it on you know I don't know I've still got the echo downstairs but [TS]

  there is you know i might as well mention it i mean because in light of [TS]

  the you know I i just don't see how you can avoid the privacy implications to [TS]

  this I'm and even above and beyond the do you trust amazon with it always on [TS]

  microphone in your kitchen do you trust Google with this and you know the answer [TS]

  obviously for many many people is yes you know and his google learning [TS]

  anything more about you than it already knows if you're heavy [TS]

  you know Google services user on but just think about it from like a law [TS]

  enforcement angle this is life is a dream from the FBI was locking ourselves [TS]

  right like because imagine if you're under investigation and FBI goes to [TS]

  google with a warrant and says you know we're investigating this individual rene [TS]

  ritchie I does he does he have a google home and if Google is legally compelled [TS]

  to say yes then they can issue a warrant that says well we we would like to have [TS]

  that microphone recording everything that you know please send us the 24-hour [TS]

  mp3 file of everything that gets said every day in this house like that is [TS]

  something that they could compel google to do [TS]

  it's funny one of my favorite you know it's it's a result phenomenal because we [TS]

  collect the Librium and they have christian bale in it and he's a graviton [TS]

  cleric and they want to kill him at the end they say what's the easiest way to [TS]

  get your weapon away from you [TS]

  he says what he says to ask you for it and it's true with passwords any law [TS]

  enforcement will tell you that often the easiest way to get somebody just asked [TS]

  because we're happy to do a lot of things to ourselves just out of [TS]

  convenience with no sense of security and that was one of the more troubling [TS]

  aspects of the google i/o to me is that a lot of the things that they're doing [TS]

  requires me to remove encryption in order to have it done what they showed [TS]

  off their and i know we'll get to it later but they showed off their chat app [TS]

  and they have an incognito mode and only when you go into incognito mode doesn't [TS]

  have aunt and encryption and [TS]

  that's because they want to do a lot of machine learning bots you know inside [TS]

  that but that's me is done I i if I'm talking to you John and then I want to [TS]

  ask about something I still I still want that part i want my communication with [TS]

  you to B&N encrypted then if I address the bottom turn off the encryptions I go [TS]

  back to talking to you turn it back on again and for the very reasons you [TS]

  mentioned that i have a personal belief that our phones are are like hard drives [TS]

  for our brains and that they should be covered with a privilege that is beyond [TS]

  what spouses or priests or doctors or anybody enjoys in the lobby should just [TS]

  be almost in violet and that their data should not be accessible to law [TS]

  enforcement but we don't live in that world and and and the world were living [TS]

  and now we are giving away and leaking so much data that all of these products [TS]

  are huge concern I yeah I you know it's I I think that it's not going to keep [TS]

  people from using it and there's also been questions you know is now that our [TS]

  phones can listen to us is as law enforcement ever tried to compel Apple [TS]

  or somebody else to turn your iphone into a bug [TS]

  I don't think that's ever happened and i'm not you know but it's obviously a [TS]

  concern now that we have these devices that are literally always listening to [TS]

  us i mean if you see there Edward Snowden her documentary [TS]

  no I haven't seen it it's great there's a scene in the very beginning and [TS]

  they're filming him and its actual film of him doing the first interviews that [TS]

  led to the articles i believe in The Guardian and right away there's an IP [TS]

  phone on the table and he unplugs it takes it apart and they're saying why [TS]

  are you doing that he said it has a speaker and they said it's not on he [TS]

  goes what do you mean it's not on right i just sit on the opposite ends of these [TS]

  things and he would put his blanket over his head and his password because they [TS]

  were cameras outside the windows and he's like you don't understand the [TS]

  degree to which we are doing surveillance on you that's creepy [TS]

  what's the name of the documentary citizen for citizen 5s something like [TS]

  that i haven't seen I don't I can't really say why because it's something [TS]

  I'm interested in and I love good documentary but it's terrific and I know [TS]

  that there's the feature film is coming out soon with ya [TS]

  edward norton right is an Edward Albert implant I'm a dead ringer Reese yeah and [TS]

  all these things go through your mind that you and apples taking great pains [TS]

  to take care of securing their building systems that they they themselves cannot [TS]

  get it [TS]

  two and that's the thing is that you might trust Google with your data but [TS]

  once someone else has your data I can take responsibility for losing my own [TS]

  data but when somebody else has it [TS]

  I even if they don't do anything bad with the employees at that company or or [TS]

  that company gets exploited or some place that they're using to store data [TS]

  gets broken into this did it creates this disability for that information to [TS]

  get even further out it's just one step removed it's one step less safe and that [TS]

  those are really we don't think about it because convenience is such a good [TS]

  selling point but eat this is super valuable things that's most valuable [TS]

  thing that we have is our information and and and I really worried about a lot [TS]

  of these products and what they'll turn us into yeah so the next thing they did [TS]

  announce when you mention it it's their new chat app it's you know effectively [TS]

  it's like they're what Google has had a lot of chat apps over the years so [TS]

  they're starting over with a new one it's called a low a alll oh thanks for [TS]

  hello [TS]

  I get a obviously hello [TS]

  not a bad name i like it but they've wiped the slate clean this is not google [TS]

  hangouts this is a new thing it's a chat app so it's sort of a cross between I [TS]

  message and like whatsapp or something like that and it's not spaces we [TS]

  introduced I think three days before this one which also has chat features [TS]

  yeah that's it curious that they had that they release spaces before this and [TS]

  then didn't talk about spaces in the keynote at all I haven't really looked [TS]

  closely its paces yet but I've heard from a couple people that I should [TS]

  because it looks like a really you know seems like a really useful thing I just [TS]

  have so much fatigued it's like the virtual real estate is free so people [TS]

  can build as many things as they want but it's almost like if you if you have [TS]

  a garden and you're tending it and somebody gives you another garden and [TS]

  got a 10 that in another garden and then another garden and you start forgetting [TS]

  about the first one and it feels that way with all these programs like I still [TS]

  have people contacting me on hangouts no google wave anymore thankfully but you [TS]

  know there was google buzz and this google spaces and they just and people [TS]

  have expectations once you use that if they send you a whatsapp message or a [TS]

  snapchat that you're gonna get back to them and there's just more and more [TS]

  proliferation of all these services and it doesn't like it's slowing down and [TS]

  just demands on our attention ridiculous [TS]

  yeah and it's not doing anything coherent with you and I understand it [TS]

  easier for them to launch two separate service but it's going back to work talk [TS]

  about with apple [TS]

  it's not their job to do things that are easy for them is their job to do things [TS]

  that are better for me and my world maybe baring it all in black would be [TS]

  the best thing but you know Google could make a product that is coherent than [TS]

  that produces these features and gets rid of one that they'll find this [TS]

  valuable anymore that would be better for me as a customer [TS]

  the thing about aloe is the privacy thing that you said so there's two modes [TS]

  in a low and the default mode includes like that did the you know what's new is [TS]

  that includes Googlebot interaction and so you can like at Google and you know [TS]

  in the middle of your chat and get answers to questions that you could ask [TS]

  Google i can imagine that being useful but it seems weird that it's the default [TS]

  and then they call the other mode incognito mode which to me is very [TS]

  problematic I I really really don't like using that and I know that the term [TS]

  comes from chrome where that's what they called the private mode for your tabs [TS]

  and I guess they're you know if you want to be aa give them the benefit of the [TS]

  doubt that's why they chose the word incognito but to me that calling [TS]

  incognito it puts a slightly negative connotation on it that it's you know [TS]

  that it did that's something that you use for something that you want to keep [TS]

  secret or something where you want to be anonymous you want to hide and it's it's [TS]

  sort of carries like a negative like a negative connotation to me [TS]

  whereas the word private which is what I think they should call it and i think it [TS]

  should be the default is well of course you want privacy [TS]

  yeah you know who doesn't want privacy and you know as as Christopher I'm going [TS]

  to watch his last name sorts or your hands to do you pronounce his name not [TS]

  sure you know who he is now he's a privacy advocate and he's yes super good [TS]

  follow i'll put his twitter in the show notes [TS]

  thank you but as he described it yesterday it the default mode of a low [TS]

  which is encrypted but it's not end-to-end encrypted so the privacy mode [TS]

  and the way like iMessage works [TS]

  I think the way what's app works is end-to-end encrypted so if i send a [TS]

  message on my message to you it is encrypted leaving my phone and it isn't [TS]

  decrypted until it gets to your phone and in between like when it's in Apple's [TS]

  hands it is in an encrypted state that they can read that's end-to-end [TS]

  encryption apples really only there to facilitate the one you know connecting [TS]

  your Apple ID to your phone [TS]

  it's just a route and its end-to-end encrypted that's you know the term is [TS]

  exactly what it sounds like we're at the day makes it impervious to person to [TS]

  person in the middle attacks with you an important thing right [TS]

  so if somebody you know hacks my or star fuck you know if i'm in starbucks and [TS]

  i'm using the Wi-Fi and somebody else you know as you know is reading all the [TS]

  stuff that goes through the Wi-Fi router all they see is the encrypted version of [TS]

  the message the default mode for a low that includes the Googlebot by [TS]

  definition in order to have this interaction with the Googlebot it is [TS]

  over https but it's encrypted from you to Google server then google sees what [TS]

  you type and then Google encrypts it to send it on to you [TS]

  that's like exactly how the FBI want all of these services that's exactly what [TS]

  the FBI has been pushing for in this entire argument and maybe you know not [TS]

  just the FBI here in the US but law enforcement you know like minded law [TS]

  enforcement in Europe and elsewhere and I'm certainly that the Chinese certain [TS]

  that the Chinese government would like to be messaging services work like that [TS]

  too because if it's only secure over-the-air from me to google and then [TS]

  it's unencrypted on google site then then if Google is served a warrant to [TS]

  say let us see these messages were really it was really you know we're [TS]

  conducting an investigation between john gruber and a rich either running a some [TS]

  kind of scam we need to see their messages they sit there they are right [TS]

  maybe I understand why google's doing it in the because it'd be better if they're [TS]

  all about machine learning in the more data you feed that the better it is and [TS]

  they're getting access to add to what we're typing how are typing it when [TS]

  we're typing it at all those discussions it really made fee [TS]

  an enormous scale it feeds their machine learning and artificial intelligence [TS]

  projects but yeah they're giving me a free service in exchange and convenience [TS]

  is always at war with security but to your point that what Google wants here [TS]

  happens to be what everybody else wants and you could make a case that who will [TS]

  protect it but google is bound by bylaws and we don't know what those laws are [TS]

  going to be yet but also google is subject to abuse and we saw with the NSA [TS]

  then they started having access to this day they didn't just use it for [TS]

  legitimate and noble government purposes but they used to keep track of my [TS]

  ex-girlfriends and spy on people to do things and that you can say that won't [TS]

  happen but the best way for that not to happen is what Apple's doing with they [TS]

  themselves do not have access to it [TS]

  yeah that's it's exactly right and i know for a fact that I message was [TS]

  architected with that in mind it was you know the the high-level top one of the [TS]

  top bullet items was we need to design this system from the ground up so that [TS]

  we can't we cannot see these messages even if compelled to do so by a warrant [TS]

  and facetime to which is why it's allowed to be using the medical injury [TS]

  because end-to-end encrypted and there's there's no chance for someone to [TS]

  intercept of the and have private data we may be doing this with all their [TS]

  services systematically yeah so I really I IE I there's no other way for Google [TS]

  to do this with the bot I don't think unless you know where I guess there is [TS]

  are there are other ways where it would have to be like you said like where [TS]

  everything I typed us to land and encrypted yeah the only the at Google [TS]

  once are not and I really feel like that they should and it doesn't seem like [TS]

  they're doing it i think that they should use do something visual like you [TS]

  know the way that I message does green bubbles for SMS and blue bubbles for I [TS]

  messages they should do something to make clear what what is and an encrypted [TS]

  and what is not and I really added later dropped the ball [TS]

  by doing this the the way that they're doing it and then it sort of deliberate [TS]

  but I really do feel like it's it's a problem I mean it's a service that I [TS]

  wouldn't you know I wouldn't want to rely on and to your point I mean using [TS]

  the term being on the incognito it it's baffling to me because they're using [TS]

  your phone number is unique identifier and that means that your definition that [TS]

  you're not a common yeah I'm messaging you incognito mode we still know who [TS]

  each other are there's no identity question [TS]

  right it's it's not incognito it's really a problematic use of the word i [TS]

  really do think so because it's not the same as chrome chrome when you go into [TS]

  incognito mode you really are anonymous release you know if it works the way [TS]

  it's designed I don't know and obviously that could be a bug well even there like [TS]

  it stops your history and it stops the cookies but unless you're using some [TS]

  form of a tractor and all those things blockers it's not stopping the web for [TS]

  monitoring your progress in general you have to go incognito and block [TS]

  everything else [TS]

  yeah and it doesn't you know it doesn't route you through some kind of an [TS]

  anonymizing service either your IP address still just your IP address you [TS]

  know but it is cut off from their regular cookie stashin and etc music [TS]

  history then next the the sibling oh by the way we should say that Apple [TS]

  actually I think that's called his privacy board in case the one who [TS]

  started yes there is stuff are you mean yes [TS]

  yeah I get its new private window [TS]

  yeah but again it's if it did the their use of incognito and aloe is really not [TS]

  that it's not that similar to to chrome and like you said your stolen you know [TS]

  still your phone number and it's yep it you know guys I say thumbs down thumbs [TS]

  down on the architectural design of a low or at least the the default should [TS]

  be flipped in my opinion the default should be what they call private mode [TS]

  and then you should be able to turn on you know having give me some help from [TS]

  google bot mode and then there should be a very very clear visual indication that [TS]

  you're no longer private yeah the whole the whole like again like I said that [TS]

  the technology was impressive but the presentations i think that the dude did [TS]

  not do the many services it's unclear to me like you and I are chatting on I [TS]

  message and I'm researching a squatting reminds me almost of those really really [TS]

  early adventure games where you're standing on the edge of the forest and [TS]

  River one side and you type and pick up the sword and it does that it's just [TS]

  it's not always an optical or we replace that those aren't our games running [TS]

  where we replaced that with easier for more direct want to make relation and [TS]

  it's not clear to me exactly what you'd like you said or or Syracuse's said [TS]

  about the car is not clear to me how efficient this one communication will be [TS]

  there will be specific cases where it's very useful but do I want my entire chat [TS]

  experience assumed with these little use cases that I'm I might not ever make put [TS]

  to use [TS]

  yeah so the sibling app to a low is [TS]

  duo and it is you know I think it's very fair to say it's their answer to [TS]

  facetime it is a live video chat I don't know if I there might be an audio mode [TS]

  I I mean it doesn't demo as well but you know live video is a companion to a low [TS]

  so i'm guessing it still uses your phone number is identifier it is going to be [TS]

  cross-platform and iOS and Android and like you said earlier you hinted at it [TS]

  they have a feature they call knock-knock preview which me a set if I [TS]

  call you it will start the video on me and the notification that you get you [TS]

  know when it rings or whatever you know says you know when i'm i'm not knocking [TS]

  you it'll already be show you where i am who i am and what I'm doing it you'll [TS]

  already have the video to look at I don't know how who thought this was a [TS]

  great like I understand they use like get someone's kids as a demo but I don't [TS]

  know who decided that they had anybody has the right to put like video on my [TS]

  home screen without my consent or my locks without my consent it's you [TS]

  we know people it's not commanded up well for us well yeah right like if I [TS]

  know you're having a meeting not like my phone rings all of a sudden it's every [TS]

  guy English on my home screen right it's not going to work well it's an [TS]

  interesting demo and like you said it may not be may not be a good feature and [TS]

  and on iOS I don't it's a 99.999 percent certain there's no way that's gonna work [TS]

  because there's no there you know that's something that's only going to be on [TS]

  Android yeah well you have to have the Apple than sitting there waiting for the [TS]

  person to call which . kind of defeats the purpose right if you're already in [TS]

  the app they could do it but otherwise there's you know it's just going to be a [TS]

  standard notification again another separate application [TS]

  yeah well I kind of you know it's the same reason that face x a separate [TS]

  application application it it is but apple doesn't have you know facetime [TS]

  plus an app like hang out at all he does very similar things to this I mean it's [TS]

  just it's layer upon layer of google communication at this point [TS]

  yeah i think it's interesting to me that they're doing it and I wonder you know [TS]

  they didn't but unlike with amazon in the echo or they they called it out they [TS]

  didn't mention apple and facetime but it's especially with the duo and [TS]

  I think it's you know it's fair to say that aloe is as much a competitor to [TS]

  whatsapp and line and all the other you know there's so many messaging apps that [TS]

  are out there [TS]

  you can't just say it's a direct answer to I message and I message is a little [TS]

  different message doesn't have stickers and it's really more about replacing SMS [TS]

  text messaging a but with duo it's impossible not to talk to talk about [TS]

  this and not mention facetime and it looks like space line space is great [TS]

  just looks like this time [TS]

  yeah and I just think that they're answering for android users need that [TS]

  you know that this is that's like a cool thing that iphone users have been using [TS]

  for years and you know there hasn't been a good answer for android users and now [TS]

  there will be in it it's it's confusing because facetime you mean with the [TS]

  stories well known steve jobs announced I was going to be an open standard and [TS]

  much to the surprise of the engineering sitting in the audience at the time and [TS]

  then Apple got sued by root of x and basically the interior architect the [TS]

  entire system based on you know [TS]

  rocketalk at Texas patent law and i believe they gone to court three times [TS]

  i'm not sure what the status is now but it it really hamstrung the roadmap for [TS]

  facetime it gets years later we have facetime audio now but we don't have [TS]

  facetime conference calls and it's a whole sort of really obvious features [TS]

  that Apple just being sued to oblivion by these companies not been able to roll [TS]

  out and the the technology behind do was super interesting to me and they're [TS]

  using WebRTC I think that's what they're doing in the way that they're [TS]

  implementing it really really interesting but it's a little need to [TS]

  evolve to and skype has got all these features and hangout says conference [TS]

  calls and i'm not sure what the exact difference is why they don't get sued [TS]

  the way that Apple has but it it really does sort of open up that that sort of [TS]

  cross-platform dynamic that you want from services like these [TS]

  yeah definitely so be interesting to see what kind of uptake it gets I kind of [TS]

  salute them i feel like these are focused apps and that point is very [TS]

  clear and it's you know sort of the opposite of what was that that that [TS]

  thing that google built a couple years ago and it eventually disappear but it [TS]

  was like a wave [TS]

  yeah that's a google wave yeah right it's the opposite of wave it's the [TS]

  antithesis where wave was so [TS]

  nebulous and so grandiose in its ambitions that it they lost the point of [TS]

  hey I'm looking at this thing and I just don't get it [TS]

  I mean it's like wiki chapters strange it was super ambitious but it really was [TS]

  not a good product [TS]

  I mean it was a fascinating like research endeavor but as just nowhere [TS]

  near as cohesive as a product needs to be whereas these new apps are so [TS]

  super-focused ok it's it's you know it's messaging [TS]

  oh and it's you know video you know like FaceTime yeah you almost like unit [TS]

  asker's and your Apple again seems they never put facetime on Android people [TS]

  still want my message on Android and you know Apple historically has not been [TS]

  great services and not been created cross-platform apps so wanting those two [TS]

  things together is a curious choice you know when you hear people complain about [TS]

  it at google has been really good about putting apps in iOS and his profound [TS]

  business reasons for why they do that but their apps have not been great on [TS]

  iOS do from the design where they insist on making them very android like you [TS]

  know Roboto and with a lot of this and the hamburger buttons to the performance [TS]

  of like hangouts has gotten better but hanging out with a dumpster fire for [TS]

  many for far too long so eight having the stripped-down apps could mean that [TS]

  they're actually decent apps on iOS and then you saw you solve that [TS]

  cross-platform problem [TS]

  yeah we'll have to see but again later this summer not not available now know [TS]

  what else we have here we got then Android n they now get going to let the [TS]

  internet name it i think that was the channel [TS]

  yeah that seems weird i don't know what that I don't know that's it seems pretty [TS]

  stupid to me i'm guessing that they already have a name and that they're [TS]

  just saying that they're letting the internet named it the teller or not a [TS]

  big Gators nutella though it's a it's a trademark and there's no use cat became [TS]

  the license agreement [TS]

  well maybe a so maybe that's what they'll do maybe they'll you know pay [TS]

  pay the Nutella peanut nutella people are just going to get you screw it let's [TS]

  do it i'm trying to think what it from the android and I have my notes here I'd [TS]

  the one thing that was interesting to me the most interesting thing that [TS]

  he showed were these i forgot to call it but it's like instant app some yeah [TS]

  we're actually streaming apps [TS]

  yeah and that that if you architect your android app the way that you know it's [TS]

  this is a new a new thing but if you architect you you can divide your appt [TS]

  up into slices and you know more or less component-wise your app it can load just [TS]

  the component that it needs to do something and will more or less loaded [TS]

  like a webpage so it'll just load right over the air and just need all of a [TS]

  sudden you're in the app but it hasn't downloaded the entire app it's just a [TS]

  you know the piece that it needs to do a thing so maybe like if you're open table [TS]

  i forget what demos they use but if you're open table it could just show you [TS]

  the screen that you use to make a reservation and you pick a time and then [TS]

  you're in you know you're in with the reservation and then if you want the [TS]

  rest of the app you can say give me the rest of the app and it'll download the [TS]

  whole thing yet it it's really amazing to me because a lot of us have been [TS]

  there where we want to wear out we're traveling maybe we're roaming we have a [TS]

  poor connection we want to do something but we just don't happen to have the app [TS]

  installed and go to the App Store and it's you know you have one bar and [TS]

  trying to download it you just watch anything try to turn it just wish you [TS]

  had that app installed you remember to do at the hotel on Wi-Fi and it's so it [TS]

  is an absolute problem but to me the bigger picture that here is that we've [TS]

  been seeing for a while and you've been talking about for a long time how it [TS]

  used to be websites and then just things started happening over HTTP and it [TS]

  became web services new AP is and endpoints and maybe they would show up [TS]

  on the web but maybe they show up on apps or maybe they would surface and [TS]

  some other type of client and it really really change the fundamental meeting of [TS]

  what it meant to be a web service and now that's been happening with apps we [TS]

  saw with extensibility on iOS were previously you had to you know take a [TS]

  photo go out to a photo app make an edit go to another photo of making ethical [TS]

  back to you maybe go to pinterest or to tumblr and share it and it was super [TS]

  inconvenient but you went to all these different destination at we're now [TS]

  thanks to extensibility you to pull out the features of a nap you don't ever [TS]

  have I use P calc in shade now I'd never go to the pcap I is shared a social [TS]

  networks using the share sheet i never actually launch social network [TS]

  apps and has profound meaning to the brands of those apps because they no [TS]

  longer control those experiences and you know maybe it'll show up on my watch on [TS]

  my or overcast might be on my car plate dashboard and the logic and the [TS]

  interface layers are totally decoupled and the binary has been separated out [TS]

  into all these features and now these features are being streamed you know [TS]

  increasing rules world's being strained back almost like like web services and [TS]

  it makes you really question what a nap will be no nevermind five years from now [TS]

  but two or three years from now and what that means for developers and services [TS]

  it's fascinating to me it's a really neat trick i'm not quite sure if it's a [TS]

  good idea or not like is it something Apple would do I don't know because [TS]

  Apple is pretty because it doesn't even ask you if you want the app it just all [TS]

  of a sudden you're in it like in the same way that when you tap URL it just [TS]

  takes you to the webpage this do tap URL and it if the you know it's sort of like [TS]

  the way that you know like with like Twitter the twitter addict can say hey I [TS]

  own the domain name so now let the user choose whether tapping that [TS]

  a tweet URL takes you to the webpage or opens the twitter app right to the tweet [TS]

  so that's what this is doing on Android except it's letting you run apps you [TS]

  haven't even installed yet I don't think Apple would allow that even not the [TS]

  technology behind it aside [TS]

  I just don't think Apple would do it because they don't want to there there [TS]

  so conservative about letting native software running on the device [TS]

  yeah i like the Google+ almost seem like you're cashing like you're going out [TS]

  grabbing a bit of a of a webpage treating it a bit like an absolute [TS]

  performs better or maybe has advantages or access that a webpage wouldn't get [TS]

  and that's true apple III one of the every year there's a technology that [TS]

  fascinates me in WC and two years ago was extensibility and last year it was [TS]

  all the on the app thinning stuff the app slicing and on-demand resources [TS]

  because we were starting to see that like you don't have to download [TS]

  everything every ipad version the interface just to get the iphone app and [TS]

  you don't have to download the 32 bit if you're running a 64-bit device and you [TS]

  don't have to download 10 levels of all you need is one and you start to think [TS]

  about that like on Apple TV where if your kid is playing and you don't ever [TS]

  want to see a dialog that says you're out of space please go to leave [TS]

  something that's just terrible experience so it's [TS]

  handling all that stuff dynamically in the background and even multitasking now [TS]

  is just in time multitasking not the old concept of multitasking anymore and this [TS]

  is becoming almost like a real-time world where you don't have to preload a [TS]

  bunch of apps you can have a bunch of features and i agree with you i don't [TS]

  think apple will do it in this way but I think extensibility and the way the [TS]

  creative ways they've been using it and it's into its under putting a lot of [TS]

  technologies in iOS 9 like the the the game recording for example is run [TS]

  through an extension so the game has no idea what you're recording no access to [TS]

  your movie executives will be split out into a separate separate screen warning [TS]

  recording functionality [TS]

  I think that's that that's sort of that future that we're going to we're not [TS]

  going to be bound by these binary blobs on our screens anymore [TS]

  there's over here i found it in my notes it's called Android instant apps [TS]

  yep and I one of the things that interesting about me is this the big [TS]

  picture that it is a full embrace of the native app as an important thing by [TS]

  google who's known as a web company [TS]

  yes um it's just to me it's a tacit acknowledgement that that native apps [TS]

  are better than web apps because there is that this is a way that native apps [TS]

  are getting a lot more Webbie it to put it one way where you don't get the same [TS]

  way that you don't have to download you don't install a webpage you just go to [TS]

  the URL and loads this is the same thing is you don't have to worry about [TS]

  installing an app you just app URL and and a part of the app just instantly [TS]

  loads and it's an instant you know to me it's just tacit acknowledgement that [TS]

  native apps are superior on especially on mobile devices and I think I don't [TS]

  they announced it but i think there was that whole thing about android apps on [TS]

  Chrome as well and you know what does that mean because chrome to me was like [TS]

  the most google of operating system it was a cloud-first web-centric operating [TS]

  system but you start running android app so what does that mean about the future [TS]

  of those clouds centric your web apps [TS]

  yeah well I think it's maybe it's wrong to describe that is the most googly it's [TS]

  the most Webbie it's the yes you know and there's a lot of people and for a [TS]

  lot of years it seemed like Google as a company was sort of dominated by people [TS]

  who have that a the web is the future you know everything's going to run in a [TS]

  browser tab eventually mindset [TS]

  and I think that what we're seeing is that google is that that's no longer [TS]

  true of google here is so Chromebooks will be able to run android apps will [TS]

  feature arrive later this year and that's me is really really interesting [TS]

  yeah but I wonder though how how well that's gonna work you know with the [TS]

  system and I had been awhile since I've tried an android tablet but it just [TS]

  seems to me like so many so many android apps are meant to be run on the only [TS]

  meant to be run on the phones [TS]

  I mean I guess what they could do is just open like show like a phone sighs [TS]

  slice of the Chromebook you know like just make like a little cell phone [TS]

  dimension window [TS]

  I don't know doesn't really have windows they just have tabs [TS]

  yeah i mean i think the companies are trying to do stuff like this for a while [TS]

  there was a rumor that webos was going to run on HP computers when they first [TS]

  bought the company and I didn't really go anywhere but this is it i think again [TS]

  to your point it's like this there's still things that native apps do that [TS]

  that web-based technologies don't do [TS]

  yeah well alright before we wrap up let's let me thank our third and final [TS]

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  long-term go to / the talk show my thanks to them I anything [TS]

  else that you notice the google i/o what I had this sort of general feeling when [TS]

  I was watching this and I don't know if I have the same feeling in wdc that [TS]

  we're sort of getting to this point where were we're getting most of the [TS]

  functionality we need out of these devices and the announcements that are [TS]

  being made are you know they're not startling technologies and even worse [TS]

  like the first time you saw the apps for the first time you saw series with the [TS]

  first time you saw some of the multi-touch or technologies they were [TS]

  just so different than what we've seen before and now we're seeing things that [TS]

  are either filling in the gaps and other vendors make that you know maybe they [TS]

  don't have already or their things that just build on and maybe bots and machine [TS]

  learning our are the big things now but they're sort of factory into apps that [TS]

  we we know and use already and reminded me of the talk you had i think it was [TS]

  last week about iphone 7 and the internet is just falling over itself [TS]

  saying oh it's going to be boring it's gonna look the same and I wouldn't look [TS]

  in the last three galaxy phones all [TS]

  the same because we're getting to a point where we know how phone should [TS]

  look if Apple wanted to they can make a triangle wouldn't be boring but would be [TS]

  stupid to use so and so I just wonder how much of this is really gonna be [TS]

  exciting as the very early days of the frontier days of mobile technology and [TS]

  how much we're gonna complain about boredom really where we're getting just [TS]

  exactly what we need now I think there's a huge chunk of the technology press and [TS]

  I you know this not just the people who write about it but some of the [TS]

  enthusiasts who follow this stuff who have a just a childlike attention span [TS]

  and an es for novelty that is as bears no relation to the general public and [TS]

  it's and they miss the forest for the trees really because it's there so much [TS]

  that is interesting on these devices if you dig into them and get into the [TS]

  details and so many people just want to hear just show me what it looks like and [TS]

  let me see if it looks new or not and if it doesn't then it's boring and it's [TS]

  just absurd and other products aren't like that this is a sign that it's and [TS]

  of course there was in the early years that of course the iphone changed more [TS]

  dramatically in the first five years you know when they would go from like that [TS]

  the 3gs to the iphone four [TS]

  I mean it was a huge really dramatic just look at the device physical change [TS]

  went from non-retina retina the went to a flat back with the you know the [TS]

  antenna on the outside of the side [TS]

  well it's we're not going to see changes like that anymore because it's becoming [TS]

  closer to you know they've gotten it down and they know what form factor [TS]

  wants to be and just look at like the car industry like you know nobody did [TS]

  new porsche 911 comes out and yeah but nobody who follows car says oh my god [TS]

  it's just like last year's 911 [TS]

  it's it's a it's ridiculous and when somebody like blackberry did the [TS]

  blackberry passport was a big square phone and a bunch of people that all [TS]

  blackberrys willing to take risks it looks different than nobody bought it [TS]

  and only used it because we we we say we want these things but we don't think why [TS]

  mcdonald's is so popular and the thing that's in Apple of course they're [TS]

  working on phones that have a higher screen to the casing ratio and i'll ship [TS]

  them eventually but you read some of the articles and [TS]

  just delete the bat the bezels and double size the battery and that's why [TS]

  would Apple has to do to be successful iphone 7 and then you open up [TS]

  iFixit and you you show them all the technology and this phone and you're [TS]

  like you would you want to do again [TS]

  yeah i just cut off the bezels on the top and bottom okay but what about these [TS]

  parts of the phone where are they gonna go like you are you chopping off all [TS]

  that all the battery that's in there and all the sensors that are in there are [TS]

  going to compact the down just push them and hope that they somehow fit in any [TS]

  way they did these aren't rational well-thought-out arguments that are [TS]

  being made this was a very emotional and very likely superficial and and I'm [TS]

  wondering how much we're gonna have to put up with that frankly some I'm not [TS]

  looking forward to some temper I I I don't know either and it is it if if the [TS]

  iphone i don't want to get lost in the woods on iphone 7 speculation but if [TS]

  it's true as widely leaked by the so far by the the things that have leaked out [TS]

  of the supply chain that the iphone the next iphone I mean I'd you know we keep [TS]

  calling it the seven I don't know that the get quality is from seven especially [TS]

  if it does look so similar to the iphone 6 and success but if it does largely [TS]

  look like the six and success it will be new because this will be the first time [TS]

  they've stuck with the general form factor for three products you know three [TS]

  years in a row so that is new territory but i really do think it's it over every [TS]

  single year people die every day every year there's an S every one of the s [TS]

  years so far people I've seen people and I you know people not trying to visit [TS]

  not trying to be jerks not trying to be a clickbait you know just readers are [TS]

  just people on twitter has a man i don't think that they're going to sell a lot [TS]

  of these because it looks just like last year's but the people normal people [TS]

  don't buy a new iphone every year I just can't repeat that enough and I'd I [TS]

  almost think that every two years is starting to become a stretch that you [TS]

  know people just don't buy new seven hundred dollar phones every two years [TS]

  yeah and it's i went back and looked because i remember this this board now [TS]

  and narrative and it was the iphone 5 and iphone 5 rebuilt the iphone from the [TS]

  atom up it went to the bigger screen it had the chamfered au Apple didn't have [TS]

  to spend an awful lot of money basically rebuilding that entire phone people [TS]

  no it's still around Rhett yeah you ask for a ratio yeah boring around director [TS]

  I was I don't care about LTI don't care about the camera don't care about the [TS]

  screen being sixteen by nine I don't care about the chamfered edges still [TS]

  around direct sale [TS]

  I've heard this from so many people at Apple it's absolutely institutionalized [TS]

  in the company's thinking is that they just do they there don't do new just for [TS]

  the sake of new the only reason they changed something is if they're [TS]

  convinced that it's better and that's why things like the macbook / powerbook [TS]

  form factor has been so incredibly stable since the titanium powerbook [TS]

  which was like what like 2001 or something [TS]

  I mean it's you know it's very close to like the 911 porsche 911 of of Apple is [TS]

  the what is a pro laptop look like I mean and you can pay if you took the [TS]

  titanium original you know which is the first one went in this direction and [TS]

  compared it to today's macbook pro you're gonna be blown away by how thin [TS]

  and light that macbook pro is and how much how much better the unibody casing [TS]

  is then the titanium one in particular where the seems really kind of you know [TS]

  with wear-and-tear started to fall apart [TS]

  it's better in so many ways but year-over-year there was never like a [TS]

  radical Wow they've totally changed the way the macbook air power book looks and [TS]

  reimagine reporters going of another clamshell boring right exactly its [TS]

  people are two you know they're just this very childish that desire for [TS]

  radical new form factors it because it's just not unless you can do better [TS]

  yeah there's so many features that are better that are actually where the event [TS]

  of our time and attention it reminds me a bit of the smart battery case to block [TS]

  all from last December where people reviewed it and they didn't ask any [TS]

  questions they just do things like oh this this is the capacity as listed like [TS]

  we found out the capacitance battery and based on the price that other people [TS]

  charge for their batteries this is expensive or all we think it looks like [TS]

  because it has a hump I always always and nobody asked that I asked [TS]

  immediately because the design was really different is why did you do this [TS]

  and they were happy to answer and i'm assuming that answer you know any [TS]

  d on those questions and it turns out that you know it it does things like not [TS]

  making you keep your phone think it's plugged into the wall so it doesn't turn [TS]

  on all the networking features that it does when it believes it has unlimited [TS]

  power and it carefully goes around the antenna so that they don't get blocked [TS]

  the antennas are blocked everything fires up and have to use a lot more [TS]

  power to make that connection which defeats the purpose of having a battery [TS]

  case and they put the word smart in the name but so much of the coverage was so [TS]

  incredibly superficial that you really embarrassed me as someone who works in [TS]

  the industry and I just I worry that we're getting more and more that [TS]

  direction [TS]

  I've seen people with those out and about 2 i've seen a fair you know [TS]

  because it's a fairly distinctive design and you can see if somebody's walking [TS]

  into using their phone on the sidewalk it's you know the back of the phone [TS]

  that's actually what you see and so I've definitely seen enough of them is it i'm [TS]

  on campus mean they really like them the pd and these are not people who will [TS]

  suffer for technology lightly I'm still so I'm so surprised that they're only [TS]

  available in black and white [TS]

  yeah like I I kind of wondered at the origin you know like hey they're getting [TS]

  close to the holidays you know I think it came out in November so I thought [TS]

  maybe that's why it's just black and white because they do you know wanted to [TS]

  make just you know two very you know different you know to match the front [TS]

  face of your phone if you have a you know gold iPhone or a silver one you get [TS]

  the white case if you want black and get black and that I I just kind of thought [TS]

  that like sort of like with the watch bands that they you know maybe in a [TS]

  couple months that be more colors I'm sort of surprised that different filters [TS]

  black-and-white yeah I thought that too about the smart keyboards for the ipads [TS]

  that you know the charcoal is fine but I thought that it would be at least one or [TS]

  two other options by now [TS]

  yeah i thought so too its bills are apparently incredibly hard to make [TS]

  hmm i did i widen storages yeah all right back to I oh yes sorry for the [TS]

  tension be speaking of new phones that they didn't announce any new phones [TS]

  there was no word of a nexus new Nexus phone and one of the reasons i'm curious [TS]

  about that is that they announced all these other things that were coming [TS]

  later this year in a good call home [TS]

  so even if the reason that they didn't do the new Nexus phone is that it's not [TS]

  ready yet well that doesn't seem to have stopped them from announcing all these [TS]

  other things that aren't ready [TS]

  you know why not just announced the phone that's coming in the fall so yeah [TS]

  curious if whether they're giving up on the Nexus phone thing now [TS]

  well there was that rumor they're gonna switch for making Nexus phones to make [TS]

  anything project silver or something which is going to be different and [TS]

  there's all these rumors that you know google one day like there's rumors that [TS]

  Microsoft make a surface phone there's rumors that google will make a pixel [TS]

  phone because your nexus ones to now to to date have not been manufactured by [TS]

  google they're manufactured by HTC or samsung or I think was LG and the most [TS]

  recent want to think is well away and that's a very different thing is you're [TS]

  working with a partner and they're directing it a lot but you know they're [TS]

  working at the Times schedule the original equipment manufacturer so maybe [TS]

  whoever is making next Nexus doesn't have anything to show yet [TS]

  yeah I don't know it's interesting to me one of the other things that I thought [TS]

  was pretty interesting too is that the android instant apps feature which is [TS]

  you know really you know very impressive demo but it's going when it ships it's [TS]

  going to should work back to android kitkat which is a what they are now [TS]

  marshmallow l33 versions ago and it to me goes to show how what's most [TS]

  important in android at least from Google's perspective and if you're a [TS]

  google customer a google user is the the Android Play run what's called the [TS]

  Google Play google play the google play runtime because Google can keep that up [TS]

  to date and ship a change like supporting these instant apps and not [TS]

  have to go through the phone carriers that's just the thing that updates [TS]

  through the google play app you know just like your apps so in the same way [TS]

  that you get app updates on Android without going through the carrier [TS]

  process the google play updates the same way and so a lot of the Hat you know [TS]

  sixty percent of all android users are using a two-year old version of Android [TS]

  sort of shading Freud that that that iOS users look upon you know Android as [TS]

  being inferior in that way it's really sort of than not [TS]

  not that important because the parts that do get updated is a lot of the user [TS]

  facing parts [TS]

  yeah I think that's a lot of true that I mean there there are situations where [TS]

  things like stage fright happen where their inability to get carrier [TS]

  manufacturers to push out updates in a timely fashion is is absolutely a user [TS]

  facing issues because your phone is just no one really has exploited it but think [TS]

  of those phones are open for exploit that's not a good thing whereas apple [TS]

  can push out security updates to every phone going back to rite 2011 all the [TS]

  same day everyday everywhere super impressive but it to me the interesting [TS]

  thing is that we sort of went from these models or Apple was very much a boutique [TS]

  everything was completely locked down very very curated and very limited and [TS]

  google was a bizarre like it was open air market you could sell it do anything [TS]

  you wanted analysis you slowly as Apple's beginning opener with the [TS]

  technology is google has had to bring things into things like app review and [TS]

  do things like takeaway services from and the android open source project and [TS]

  put them where they make more attractive version of them available through google [TS]

  service that google play services that they control so apples have to relax a [TS]

  little bit and Google's have to tighten up a little bit and we're getting sort [TS]

  of a much better experience in the middle from both of them know there was [TS]

  theirs they announced android wear too . oh yeah that didn't nothing really [TS]

  grabbed me in there and it's in and they added a keyboard which I ex I'm sorry [TS]

  whoever I'm stealing this from but somebody on Twitter last night quipped [TS]

  that they still have a hard time entering their pin code on an Apple [TS]

  watch you know with just a justice 0 then the hind keyboard [TS]

  I don't don't have a lot of faith in a full qwerty keyboard on it device the [TS]

  size they say Google's pitches that it's it you know you'd you're supposed to use [TS]

  it with the slide typing and that their machine language will the machine [TS]

  learning will will you know be accurate but even during the demo they they [TS]

  counted wrong [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah i mean like the the iphone is not as easy to type on is the [TS]

  mac but we use it for things that are brief and important that we don't want [TS]

  to have to go back to our math for and the Apple watch significantly it's [TS]

  potentially harder to you interact with that an iphone but you're supposed to [TS]

  use it again for briefer and even more important things you don't [TS]

  pull your iphone out for and it's just not clear to me and we're still really [TS]

  early days when we haven't had a decade of phones and tablets that you know an [TS]

  addictive watches like we had phones and tablets that what that interaction model [TS]

  should be but android wear too . it doesn't look like it it moves the needle [TS]

  any directions masculine yeah and with this keyboard i like I'm not going to [TS]

  you know it's a cardinal rule the account not going to say it's a bad idea [TS]

  without having used it because who knows i could be surprised but I would [TS]

  certainly wager that it's a terrible idea but you're not gonna be writing [TS]

  during fire lord's life I wouldn't write anything i'm convinced that one thing [TS]

  that's true is for wearables the only way to get text input is to dictate it [TS]

  the only good way I just cannot believe that a crack full qwerty keyboard on a [TS]

  watch even if watches you know a big watch its there's no way you'd like the [TS]

  holographic 20 * keyboard that makes the full-size that were floating above your [TS]

  wrists that you can type on I i was trying to keep track i think every [TS]

  single person who came onstage at the event had a google and android wear [TS]

  watch on you have to be watched while John is just part of the job [TS]

  well i'm guessing that since Apple watches come out that there hasn't been [TS]

  a speaker an apple event who's not wearing an Apple watch either [TS]

  I mean it's but it's to me it's sort of I don't know there's something about [TS]

  that rubs me the wrong way about yeah well in on both companies [TS]

  yeah I think I don't know if we talked about on the show previously we were [TS]

  talking about you are you going to have to be Carlos oil because if you're able [TS]

  to apple that love their Porsches and therefore Ari's and are they going to [TS]

  have to leave those at home and drive like a little smart car around and how [TS]

  happy baby with that you know you got to do it in public the way they're not [TS]

  wearing their Omegas are panaracer Rolexes right now but they were in Apple [TS]

  watches in public [TS]

  yeah I don't know well thats its did [TS]

  it's a damn good question i don't know turn that Ferrari around sir go back at [TS]

  your Apple car that you can park here [TS]

  the last thing I have from my notes was they call it i don't know if it was the [TS]

  whole thing but I think it's the daydream which is there [TS]

  yeah mobile vr on android phones and there's an API said that developers can [TS]

  start writing your own stuff and Google didn't announce any sort of [TS]

  where they're actually going to sell but they've made a quote-unquote reference [TS]

  design for how to make a headset that you will put your phone in and then you [TS]

  know make it your VR headset did cardboard previously which was a really [TS]

  low cost and their versions of that were sold in the apple store i think i forgot [TS]

  the name of that Club a very popular kid viewmaster or something was making your [TS]

  version of that I all sorts of people did i know i have a relative who works [TS]

  for kellogg and kellogg even they had you know the cereal company even had [TS]

  like a kit that you could you know put together her to make your phone into a [TS]

  jack-in-the-box [TS]

  yeah I don't know what to I don't know what to make of this is the you know [TS]

  it's like is the phone going to be the future of ER I don't know but you know I [TS]

  do feel like that it the whole industry is moving and if you know like big [TS]

  trends across multiple companies is the voice driven assistance which we've [TS]

  talked about it at length before and vr / and or /a are augmented reality these [TS]

  things are obviously coming on the VRA our front apple has been publicly [TS]

  absolutely absent I mean and there's no way that they're not working on stuff [TS]

  let me know they have to be I mean it's almost a hundred percent certainty that [TS]

  internally they must be working on something but as typical for Apple [TS]

  they're not going to talk about it until they have a product ready to announce i [TS]

  don't know i just this idea of the phone as the thing it it kind of works because [TS]

  if you have VR goggles on [TS]

  you need a display and the goggles that's roughly about the size of a phone [TS]

  and a phone isn't that heavy but is it the way to go is that the way to go to [TS]

  have it you know slide into a pair of you know I don't know I think if you [TS]

  want to evangelize the technology that's one of the problems with Google's [TS]

  previously our attempts the google glass is that it was really expensive and you [TS]

  know you were out in public and it just it wasn't a good social situation and [TS]

  things like oculus and the HTC why all these big elaborate headsets you have to [TS]

  put on like helmets [TS]

  and that's the the ito a really powerful pc to run them and that's just not [TS]

  available to mainstream this way and your samsung did it with the Samsung [TS]

  Galaxy gear for just a second galaxy samsung gear and galaxy gear anyway you [TS]

  you put the phone on you put the goggles on and you're doing and that at least is [TS]

  accessible to anybody who has a phone and a few dollars extra for the case [TS]

  that holds it on your head and I don't know if this if wearing something on [TS]

  your head is the endpoint for VRA our work is going to become a pervasive [TS]

  layer in our lives is projected on services and it you know around us but [TS]

  if you if you do want to get people into looking at br br displays this is the [TS]

  cheapest way to get into as many people as possible at least introduce the [TS]

  technology into our culture [TS]

  I i guess so but is that do you think Apple would go down this route [TS]

  no but now i don't know that i can't see Apple doing something like this although [TS]

  I will everybody's doing it so maybe i don't know i guess i wouldn't be shocked [TS]

  if they had apple a rvr could be the HUD display in their car [TS]

  there's so many and there's so many ways of like we do you think about current [TS]

  display technology it displaces doesn't matter anymore like i have an le Enola [TS]

  just play on my wrist and I have an LCD display in my hand that's the last thing [TS]

  I really think about they're just they're just ways of displaying [TS]

  information and maybe Apple figure that out for this as well it's it's [TS]

  interesting contrast with oculus because oculus is sort of going the high end [TS]

  route where to get to drive an oculus you've really candid but my [TS]

  understanding is you effectively need like the power of a gaming pc yeah [TS]

  absolutely and you famously they complain that a mac won't drive it was [TS]

  not known standard back on the market will drive and I i pre-ordered the [TS]

  oculus I haven't received it has been delayed and my friend George pre-ordered [TS]

  the HTC vive and she hasn't got it yet because it's been delayed either but [TS]

  both of those require significant computer investments like you're easily [TS]

  talking over a thousand dollars just get into the entry level of these things [TS]

  right it's really really like high-end gaming pc caliber graphics to drive it [TS]

  but there are you know from what I've seen I mean again you really have to [TS]

  wear the goggles to really get the full effect but oculus is obviously producing [TS]

  much better graphics than what google is showing with a dream i mean i was [TS]

  watching something to put on the five and looked almost like the first ironman [TS]

  boo [TS]

  be where they're holding their heads up the big things were going in their hands [TS]

  and things going on their head and the cables are pink white and maybe [TS]

  playstation vr will be easier because people who have playstation wait you [TS]

  mean like the ironman have one more Tony Stark made it made it in the cave creek [TS]

  yeah baby maybe like that followed that yet but it doesn't mean they're not [TS]

  they're not they're not easy products like you got to really commit your time [TS]

  too and i was joking when Samsung first so i went to facebook for spot oculus [TS]

  that facebook right now they're in a browser window and you can just close a [TS]

  tab and you're gone and you're there an app that you can just switch apps and [TS]

  gone but when Facebook is on your head it takes a lot of commit [TS]

  gone but when Facebook is on your head it takes a lot of commit [TS]

  to get out of that there's always that experience from then on anything else [TS]

  from google i/o that you I I think that more or less covers my notes yeah i mean [TS]

  they had a ton of sessions the way wEDC does and i haven't had time to sort [TS]

  through much of what I'm sure there's a bunch of very small and very very [TS]

  interesting things that we haven't seen yet but 8e it wasn't to me like the [TS]

  razzle-dazzle google i/o we started dropping off a plane saw in the early [TS]

  days or or even if I figured it was Hugo para or someone else was just you know [TS]

  slamming apple at every at every chance on stages to me was a very mature very [TS]

  product-focused very set yet that's what pic and otra is the Kenosha that's right [TS]

  yeah he was the he was the one famously doing it this is a very sendai pitar i [TS]

  think google i/o and I think it really benefit from that I like the new sundar [TS]

  Pichai google as do i like it a lot more it's all that it seems like all the the [TS]

  the crazy town stuff is all bundled up and shipped to alphabet [TS]

  yes what is google glass was the google glass introduction that might be peak [TS]

  google I don't like the peak of what i don't like about google was entirely [TS]

  encapsulated by that which was everything from the glass itself as a [TS]

  product idea which I was absurd it was terrible it's you know just stupid [TS]

  it is absolutely a terrible product underpowered ugly on the worst part of [TS]

  your body for an ugly wearable technically deficient I mean I've dr [TS]

  warren I've tried to pair it's actually not that you know it's a low resolution [TS]

  and it doesn't do anything [TS]

  it's not you know it the fact that people thought that was gonna be a [TS]

  product was just so goofy and says so much about the people who liked it you [TS]

  know it's that the whole what the same Robert the guy who did the shower [TS]

  yeah Robert Scoble Robert Scoble school said he doesn't he doesn't foresee ever [TS]

  not wearing a google glass ever again in his life [TS]

  yeah haha he's only nine site but combine that with the way that they [TS]

  introduced it with a [TS]

  with sergej jumping out of a plane [TS]

  yes sir j do it like Serge's jumping out of a plane and landing on the roof of [TS]

  moscone everything about that Justin capitalizes what I found ridiculous and [TS]

  absurd and hurt my eyes by rolling my eyes so so hard about Google and all of [TS]

  that seems gone and no they didn't ship any of this stuff yet you know [TS]

  everything that they announced is is coming later this year but i have no [TS]

  doubt they're going to ship it and it all seems to me like stuff that might be [TS]

  pretty popular i think they're you know this google home seems like something [TS]

  that depending on the price and I don't think they announced the price you know [TS]

  no i don't iike least not that I saw i am going to assume it is going to be [TS]

  roughly google echo priced in our amazon echo priced so let's say a hundred fifty [TS]

  to two hundred dollars something like that into and or lower [TS]

  I think they're gonna sell a million of them i can see a low and duo taking off [TS]

  and being successful and I think android and seems like a nice update to injury [TS]

  absolutely and almost everything except for android and me they clearly said [TS]

  it's coming to ios and android which means like to me they've gotten their [TS]

  act like they sort of understand now that there are services company and if [TS]

  their end goal is like the star trek computer to be the machine learning to [TS]

  be the AI they need to you need to reach as many people as possible we need that [TS]

  scale and as much as Android was interesting way for them to head and [TS]

  make sure they always had access to at least some some form of defiance in [TS]

  people's hands they are really being ubiquitous now with this technology and [TS]

  this to me is a cleaner more focus google yeah did you see the thing with [TS]

  it there they added split-screen to android I senior I didn't see this [TS]

  version I've seen various versions before and including on the phone which [TS]

  is in are getting so I forget what i did see that yeah I forget if it's a long [TS]

  tap or a DoubleTap but you did that the standard three buttons now on android [TS]

  are back button on the left home button in the middle and the multitasking [TS]

  button on the right so if you tap the multitasking button it puts your seven [TS]

  most recent apps and you know it's a lot like iOS we see that you just choose [TS]

  between these that turns your apps into windows [TS]

  you can scroll between them and switch if you'd long tap on it now it in [TS]

  Android n it split goes to split screen multi-screen and even on the phone so it [TS]

  turns your phone into like if you're holding it in a typical portrait you get [TS]

  like a square on top and a square on the bottom so you kind of get like two [TS]

  little like almost like blackberry sized screens [TS]

  yeah and they also have picture in picture which obviously is good for [TS]

  video and that's obviously it that's all you know just to be clear that's [TS]

  obviously a catch-up feature to iOS but on iOS it's only an ipad feature you can [TS]

  do it on the phone [TS]

  so it's sort of a jump ahead there i wonder whether Apple is thinking about a [TS]

  picture-in-picture for iphone will on Android it sits at least to me it is [TS]

  such a like some android phones are six inches [TS]

  you know it and bigger social for them has always been a continuing with the [TS]

  line between tablet and phone has been busy so you really have to you make [TS]

  those things across a range of their devices i have to say and it's one of [TS]

  those things where I don't not pushing for Apple to add a permanent button on [TS]

  the system like android has for multitasking but i have to say that for [TS]

  the idea of split-screen it's a better i think it's a better interface because [TS]

  one of the things too is because they're soft buttons it changes the icon of the [TS]

  button like it's just like a rectangle usually and when you go to split screen [TS]

  it's two rectangles on top of each other and so it's very obvious how you get out [TS]

  of the mode you just tap that button again and he get out of the mode [TS]

  I don't like the way that the ipad does split-screen I because every time I use [TS]

  and i've been using at the ipad pro a lot more than I've was you for doing [TS]

  things than I did on ipad before and I want to use the multitasking but it [TS]

  seems so inconvenient to me that when I want to have to appt side-by-side I have [TS]

  to slide the one over again tap the thing to change it from slide over to [TS]

  split screen it seems so fiddly and then there's different ways of switching the [TS]

  apps on either side in it is not a consistent experience yet i really hope [TS]

  that Apple I hope Apple is dissatisfied with that as I am that would be that's [TS]

  like maybe my number one wish list for ipad for WWDC is is for Apple to [TS]

  have given multi idea of how we're gonna do split-screen multitasking serious [TS]

  serious redo design-wise because I lamps [TS]

  I don't think developers would have to do anything what now if you're already [TS]

  on board with the size classes to support multitasking if Apple switches [TS]

  the interface for how you get into and out of multitasking it should be a big [TS]

  issue for developers at all [TS]

  yeah I still go back to use Apple watch gets carousel and apple TV gets [TS]

  headboard and would whatever the other board is that I want to get the name for [TS]

  you get there just interface layers an iPad you can easily get its own distinct [TS]

  interface layer that's better that's better suited to like the split-screen [TS]

  large-screen world than just a straight port of the iphone springboard is no uh [TS]

  but split-screen not picture-in-picture but split screen for the phone i just i [TS]

  see that little bit of a gimmick i don't i don't know how useful that would be no [TS]

  I'm going to start thinking maybe it would be useful important like instead [TS]

  of two squares to top of it but then you start having you know collision issues [TS]

  and where's the keyboard pop-up and all these other anything to start dealing [TS]

  with yeah it kinda wanted to see that they didn't show that i wanted to see [TS]

  what I guess it just slides the top app up off-screen and though if you're [TS]

  typing in the bottom map it must just move it up to the top and vice versa [TS]

  yeah that's gonna be my hope at least yeah anything else [TS]

  no I mean it was a good show i'm eager to see what apple doesn't have a dub dub [TS]

  yeah very interesting gonna be a fun words fun run out like that looking [TS]

  forward to Renee people can find you now there's a new podcast you guys you guys [TS]

  just started i was actually the gas so if you like here in a talk you should go [TS]

  listen to appletalk which is a terrific name I cannot believe that name hadn't [TS]

  been used for a podcast yet so that's with that's and I more you guys have [TS]

  switched your podcast methodology there's always been the I more podcasts [TS]

  they're still is the I'm or podcast yes but the I'm or podcast is is now sort of [TS]

  what you network it's more community focused and we do a lot of how to stuff [TS]

  and question-and-answer and apps and accessories and things like that and [TS]

  then the appletalk in eternity Caldwell came up with the name she's fantastic [TS]

  naming those things we had Michael Gartenberg join us formerly of Apple [TS]

  Martin Carmichael Hardenberg join us and we wanted to do with more of a deep dive [TS]

  so and you were really [TS]

  patience to come on the first episode and we spent the entire time talking [TS]

  about just the iphone business and a second episode was justjust on Apple pay [TS]

  and we're gonna put up i think later today the third episode which has Horace [TS]

  to do on it and we're just talking about Apple car so let's really do sort of [TS]

  deeper dives and we are able to otherwise I'm finding it really [TS]

  interesting so far [TS]

  yeah it's really great idea and Michael Gartenberg it's funny because he was an [TS]

  apple for a i think around 45 years was three but yes now that something like [TS]

  that but it it was like the three years where podcast at podcast has really [TS]

  taken off and I as we were recording the show I was like this guy is where I know [TS]

  he's great and he's a smart guy and I've long been a fan of his writing and I you [TS]

  know met him a few times but it's the first time i heard amount of podcast and [TS]

  I thought this is it it's a good criminal shame that this man has not [TS]

  been on podcast for the last three or four years because he's been an apple [TS]

  he's really good he's really good at it and it also is surprising to me that as [TS]

  a guy hadn't been doing it for a while he was already like a natural i got a [TS]

  lot of people come out like especially people who worked at Apple well just so [TS]

  good at public speaking that translates over the podcast well yeah that's it [TS]

  well it's it the culture an inside Apple is one of I don't know you didn't have [TS]

  necessarily do a lot of public speaking but it's a very very the people who have [TS]

  good communication skills yes drawn to apple it's a culture where you kind of [TS]

  need good communication skills to to succeed and so it's no surprise that [TS]

  people come out of apple and it just never been on a podcast and are already [TS]

  good because it's it's a very verbal go talk you know and and express your ideas [TS]

  succinctly and clearly sort of company the way of putting it [TS]

  everything where else they can find on twitter at Rene Ritchie sir what else [TS]

  you want to promote what else you got you got the debug got so many pockets [TS]

  yeah I've cut down cut down a lot so we only have only have a few right now but [TS]

  it's we want to do this thing where instead of quantity we really wanted to [TS]

  spend a lot more time and we doing a lot more editing on them now and we want to [TS]

  make them as good as shows as we possibly can [TS]

  is there a point is there like a web page where they can find all these [TS]

  podcasts is what would I tell people to go [TS]

  I'm what I'm were combination of all that I want to accomplish podcasts [TS]

  alright I / podcast and you can find out more Renee I thank you very [TS]

  much for your time [TS]

  always always good to talk to you I'll thank out to finish up here with thanks [TS]

  to our sponsors we had warby parker the place where you get glasses the Casper [TS]

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