The Talk Show

155: ‘Medium Rare MacBook’, With Special Guest MG Siegler


  mg job long time no long time no hear ya [TS]

  are you very good been too long so what it what are you up to these days what [TS]

  are you what the hell are you doing [TS]

  so uh I came back from the UK i was over there for a year helping to set up [TS]

  google ventures European operations over there and with that off the ground and [TS]

  came back a about i guess more than six months ago now is sometime last summer [TS]

  it's actually we're going to work heading back to the UK for the first [TS]

  time in since we left so it's almost been a year anyway so back on the ground [TS]

  in san francisco now back just to doing us google ventures now called GV is a [TS]

  part of the alphabet stuff in Essos google ventures is one of the alphabet [TS]

  companies that's a sister company now to google versus being you know under [TS]

  google same same basic idea but they would prefer we use the name GV instead [TS]

  of google ventures now right as part of the whole if it's really a sibling to [TS]

  google and part of alphabet it shouldn't be called google right exactly so so [TS]

  yeah so back but doing the same stuff just a investing in the you know mainly [TS]

  early stage early to mid-stage companies here I what you do you think that having [TS]

  spent a whole year in $YEAR in the UK when you came back did it did you look [TS]

  at at the the valley culture and sort of feel like you have fresh eyes or did [TS]

  feel like it just instantly like you know what I'm home it's a good question [TS]

  because I did think about that the longer sort of i was over there and [TS]

  obviously we are coming back fairly regularly i think it was back at least [TS]

  once a quarter in the US and mainly in the bay area when I came back but still [TS]

  the longer i was over there you do start to get detached from it and i felt like [TS]

  i was able to look at it from much more of a outsider perspective after having [TS]

  lived in the area for almost 10 years you know [TS]

  concurrently and [TS]

  it it was interesting coming back and you do feel like you get just like sort [TS]

  of right back into the swing of things almost like you hadn't left the same [TS]

  time I had these lingering remembrances of of what it was like being over in the [TS]

  UK and sort of watching remotely both because of what we talked about the [TS]

  timezone thing was was one of the more interesting things when I would wake up [TS]

  in the morning it was mostly either people who are up really late for people [TS]

  who are out drinking or something like that on twitter and so i would i would [TS]

  have a much much different usage of Twitter when I was over there then I do [TS]

  when I'm over here and it's just sort of in the in the thick of it with everyone [TS]

  when I'm over there it's it's almost like you're using it to play catch-up [TS]

  and then talking to a few drunk people so but anyway yes so when I when I came [TS]

  back it did I did get right back into the swing of things but i still have [TS]

  these hopefully different perspective on you know and how sort of the outside [TS]

  view Silicon Valley versus being in it for a decade and do you think that do [TS]

  you think that outside the valley start-up's are under represented by RR [TS]

  over or more likely to be overlooked [TS]

  yeah like I'd that's my outsider's perspective my outsider's perspective is [TS]

  that inside the valley it the the focus is so insular because there's so many [TS]

  things going on in so many smart people and so many interesting things that it's [TS]

  it it cultivates an idea that everything worth looking at is in the valley yeah [TS]

  that's a good way to frame because most people you know talk about well you're [TS]

  too far in the forest and you know you guys are just missing sort of what's [TS]

  outside of the valley the reality of the situation at least from my perspective [TS]

  is sort of what you're suggesting which is that there are so many interesting [TS]

  things going on in Silicon Valley that it's it's honestly just hard as a matter [TS]

  of time to be able to look outside of it unless you happen to be in a locale [TS]

  that's outside of it so most of the people here who are investing here [TS]

  or certain companies here uh you know our that you know very much in the in [TS]

  the thick of it and so it is it is probably it's definitely fair to say [TS]

  that you know sort of outside of Silicon Valley is on her represented under [TS]

  represented in the minds of everyone here but i do think that that's just as [TS]

  much of a function of again there being so much here to think about and look at [TS]

  and so it's it's a it's just the proximity and time issue but then when [TS]

  you move to somewhere else like London or any other locale you know then of [TS]

  course you're you're closer to some of those things and so you start to see [TS]

  outside of that and that's not just say whether or not you know it's it's a good [TS]

  or bad thing I think overall everyone would agree it's sort of a bad thing to [TS]

  have blind spots to something if if you're not aware of it but uh you know [TS]

  it's it's an easier thing that said than done when when the proximity thing is is [TS]

  such a key factor know what I'm trying to think since the last time you've been [TS]

  on the show [TS]

  what are some of the big high level changes to the type of stuff we talked [TS]

  about [TS]

  well apple still doomed he had more doom than ever that the more the more money [TS]

  they make them you know the heart the farther they would fall so it's gonna be [TS]

  it's a catastrophic fall that's that's happening i think that you know only [TS]

  made whatever what did they make 50 50 billion in revenue last quarter [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  I something that [TS]

  yeah i think so and 10 10 billion in profit it's more than you know all all [TS]

  the major other tech companies combined it's a it's way more than any other [TS]

  company of course including Exxon and all the maybe so but uh you know I would [TS]

  sit aramco I guess is about to or not a ramco it's um what's the what's the [TS]

  Saudi 10 i forget the name ID i know i know you're talking about but I forget [TS]

  that it sounds like they're about to go public or spun out partially so we're [TS]

  about to see how much money potentially that they make and it could be something [TS]

  comfortable dapple so maybe the first time we [TS]

  we get something like that yeah it's not just only compares to the gas and oil [TS]

  companies [TS]

  yeah and it's kind of funny because we grew up I you know I mean I've even [TS]

  people who are significantly older than us I think I grew up in a world where [TS]

  it's just well of course the gas and oil companies are the biggest companies in [TS]

  the world right it's just it's just like that's the world whereas I it's like [TS]

  I've I'm old enough now to sort of and you know with all the climate change [TS]

  stuff and and all let you know that the interest in renewable energy [TS]

  everybody's looking at that you know in questioning it and and you know that [TS]

  it's no longer taken as a given that this is just the way it is right but I i [TS]

  did the math love when with all the skepticism with apples you know [TS]

  quote-unquote bomb quarter last quarter and it really was true i think i forget [TS]

  if it was revenue a project i was looking a profit and yeah it was profit [TS]

  because that's why I I took I took amazon out of the equation because they [TS]

  don't try for profit so it's right now it's almost like it's like you're it [TS]

  you're stacking the deck and if in the favor of Apple by comparing amazon but i [TS]

  think it was like Google Microsoft and Facebook combine that they had more [TS]

  profit than right which is just yet insane especially like with Microsoft [TS]

  who and Google too i think one thing you could google is often you know that [TS]

  largely has tried for profit but Microsoft famously it you know it was [TS]

  the most profitable company in in the industry [TS]

  yeah yeah I remember when I you know thinking back to how I don't even [TS]

  remember how long it was 67 years ago or something sort of when I was at its [TS]

  still techcrunch looking trying to cover sort of the day-to-day of putting into [TS]

  context like just how fast apples growing and and how big it is relative [TS]

  some of the other tech companies and I remember both putting it in the context [TS]

  of Microsoft at the time and Microsoft was still leaps and bounds ahead both [TS]

  certainly in profit and I think in still at revenue at that point but the other [TS]

  one i remember is HP like HP was so far ahead and revenue that it seemed like [TS]

  Apple would never be able to surpass something like that and then [TS]

  you know it's like 18 months later it was it was so far in the rearview mirror [TS]

  that it was it was insane [TS]

  even that even the HP brand and ipods couldn't change that [TS]

  that's right they somehow didn't didn't write the ship and now it's like now HP [TS]

  has been spun out or it's got split up once right and I think they just sold a [TS]

  separate a part of the enterprise version that was spun out so it's like [TS]

  three separate companies now that was the the one behemoth at that point that [TS]

  seemed seem like you know a tech company could never top of those those types of [TS]

  revenues and now it's funny [TS]

  yeah and it's like HP is one of those coming I ever had a great interest in [TS]

  hewlett-packard you know I mean but they were at least relevant to this fear of [TS]

  things that i read and now it's almost like when an article comes up with a [TS]

  review of like an HP laptop or something i'm like wow HP haven't thought about [TS]

  them and like a year [TS]

  yeah I am the same way just don't even think about it is basically only when I [TS]

  like see on tech named the earnings report of HP and that's like the only [TS]

  time i'll see like the headline of like yeah they they beat or they slightly [TS]

  missed or whatever on on their their targets for the it's like it's it it's [TS]

  such a mind-numbing you know headline to read like just don't have time to really [TS]

  care that much anymore about HP what's the name of microsoft tablet surface [TS]

  surface service so i just saw a review the other day where we're HP came out [TS]

  with like more or less their competitor to the surface and it's it's like it's [TS]

  just like a surface and and their advertising it but you can open it up in [TS]

  like you know replace the ram and you can look through this and that and you [TS]

  know it's like all this stuff that was like the things people wanted to do with [TS]

  their pcs like 10 years ago but then like the bottom line is so it's just [TS]

  like a surface and out-of-the-box it's thicker and heavier like yeah that's [TS]

  great good job at your luck with a UH but it so it's just it's a tablet that [TS]

  with it with the keyboard thing [TS]

  yeah i'll try to find the review and i'll put the link in the show that show [TS]

  notes oh it's at it I'd it's just like yeah I don't have some division [TS]

  HP is still making these things in it you know it squeaked out the side but [TS]

  it's like it's not pride [TS]

  yeah there it's you know it's the office space guy with the red stapler in the [TS]

  basement was just doing this and no one realizes it [TS]

  yeah exactly right he's still down there making laptop and it's like looking [TS]

  around the industry news like well I guess that's the new form back but [TS]

  that's what he made [TS]

  that's exactly it [TS]

  you are a I think I a you've been bullish on uber right Shirin and I mean [TS]

  you know Stevie's a pretty big investors right yeah it right so it's you know you [TS]

  know let's just go lows and everytime TVs and investment in somebody right but [TS]

  I I feel like that again you know not having had you on the show in a long [TS]

  time that to me that the ride sharing and you know it doesn't have to be over [TS]

  in particular but it's it's a it it seems to be accelerating at a dark [TS]

  almost crazy rate and I could be wrong maybe like one thing I had a couple [TS]

  years ago I don't know because about 10 years ago there were a lot here in [TS]

  philly especially the zipcars was a pretty common yeah and you'd see them [TS]

  and I always noticed it because I notice branding and stuff that you know the [TS]

  cars all had zipcars printed on the side and I knew where all the parking lots [TS]

  were where where they were and it was something that when we were shopping for [TS]

  a car 10 years ago we considered it [TS]

  we've really strongly thought maybe we don't have to buy a car maybe we could [TS]

  just do the zipcars thing but it's like we we kind of like pretended you know [TS]

  like well let's pretend it's a rainy day and how far do we have to go and as I [TS]

  guess it's pretty far so we didn't we didn't go for we bought a car but I've [TS]

  noticed in this is totally anecdotal but i don't see anywhere near as many [TS]

  zipcars in Philadelphia as I used to like that seem like that got popular and [TS]

  now it's less popular and I can't help but think that it's it's the rideshare [TS]

  will set its that [TS]

  so how actually I the last time I've been in Philadelphia a long time [TS]

  certainly will [TS]

  well before over and left and whatnot existed so it's over pretty ubiquitous [TS]

  like that how people [TS]

  yeah people get around well I can't speak for the whole city of Philadelphia [TS]

  Philadelphia and center city philadelphia is you know the downtown [TS]

  part of philadelphia is all centralized it's one continuous rectangular black [TS]

  and with in center city philly it's you know it it never more than five minute [TS]

  wait for a black car or SUV and I don't really do the you Rex but it's I think [TS]

  it's even less for that and you know [TS]

  yep it's really really i justjust philly have public good public transportation [TS]

  really bad public transportation i would i would qualify it as mediocre we have [TS]

  to subway lines when it goes east west and one that goes north south so it's [TS]

  just effectively just like a plus that goes right through the center of you get [TS]

  right through the center of the city so like in the sporting complex all this [TS]

  the the Phillies the Eagles the Sixers all of this stuff is all in one big area [TS]

  way down in South Philly so it's easy from that if i'm going to a game i just [TS]

  walked to the what we call the broad street line the one that goes north [TS]

  south up on that and go south and it's great if you want to go anywhere off [TS]

  that plus grid it's not so great i mean there's buses but yeah now I mean even [TS]

  in the cities now with great public transportation New York obviously London [TS]

  be another it's still you're still seeing uber lyft and and all all the [TS]

  rest sort of just taking over and becoming huge and all these markets just [TS]

  because I mean I think there's a number of things at play but but the [TS]

  convenience factor of course like just dialing up something in it and it being [TS]

  there right at your doorstep and taking you exactly to where you need to go you [TS]

  know just make sense for a lot of people you you talked about your your wife and [TS]

  yourself sort of thinking about it zip code makes sense you know when Megan my [TS]

  wife and I moved over to London we sold our cars here in San Francisco and so [TS]

  when we came back you know we we thought about what what should we do [TS]

  and right now we still don't have cars been almost a year neither one of us [TS]

  have a car [TS]

  and we do use over to get everywhere basically a few times we've rented a car [TS]

  like if we're going you know for an extended trip up north or down south but [TS]

  for you know 99 percent of our our travel now is with uber and I don't want [TS]

  to preface that a little bit because I know I sound like the you know that I [TS]

  sound like a silicon valley perhaps stereotype [TS]

  yeah we can get everywhere we need to go on over but like the reality is in a lot [TS]

  of I think metro areas now it can be cheaper depending on your situation and [TS]

  depending on what you need to do is obviously a little bit different if you [TS]

  have children and and some other life situations but for the situation that [TS]

  were currently in it's definitely cheaper for us to to use something like [TS]

  uber and uber X and we were pool like you know the the carpooling version of [TS]

  it to get around a city vs owning a car having to pay insurance having to pay [TS]

  for gas having to pay for parking and everything else that's included [TS]

  yeah and it's just it's just one of those things that like it's really [TS]

  opened my eyes to just Iike I know it sounds so obvious it sounds such a duh [TS]

  but it's like God look at all these cars that are parked every other and and I [TS]

  know that this is part of the just the basic argument but it's that the [TS]

  industry is right for transportation but when you're in a city and used to see [TS]

  cars parked everywhere and you see you know buildings that are just parking [TS]

  garages just stacked with cars and you just think all these cars are just [TS]

  sitting here for hours and hours and hours and you think like you know in the [TS]

  in / is you know is always in motion yeah i mean i think that's a good point [TS]

  and it's something that that gets talked about a little bit but not enough and I [TS]

  think it will be talked about more and more as this becomes more of the reality [TS]

  in more places but you're exactly right like imagine the future you know whether [TS]

  it's it's uber and lyft or the eventual sort of self-driving car elements where [TS]

  all the sudden all of these spaces and cities are unlocked they're just used as [TS]

  you said to sort of like how scars that just sit there all day which is [TS]

  ridiculous so much so much of city life is taken up by these giant parking [TS]

  garage [TS]

  is that when you can unlock that you no longer need those like cities become you [TS]

  know much better as a result of having all that space sort of freed up and you [TS]

  can put any number of things there anything you want all these you know who [TS]

  knows how much square footage is out there that's that's just devoted to [TS]

  parking but it is a ton [TS]

  yeah it's it's you know and when you think about it and you just don't you [TS]

  know again it's like you know when I first came to philly you know and in for [TS]

  college in the early nineties it i just assumed that the city would be full of [TS]

  cars so that's just the world as I knew it but as I you know question it now [TS]

  it's this seems ridiculous [TS]

  yeah i still do wonder so I grew up in a suburb outside of Cleveland and you know [TS]

  it's a fairly typical yeah you know Midwestern like suburb and they're [TS]

  obviously it's not super dense and you have to drive everywhere and so I've [TS]

  been home a few times you know in the past few years and it's they have over [TS]

  and I do take it but it's not nearly as of course as ubiquitous as it would be [TS]

  in the city like even in downtown Cleveland it would be a lot more [TS]

  ubiquitous of course and so I do wonder for like the the suburbs and outside [TS]

  reasons like how long that will take the tip but i still think it will like it's [TS]

  just it just I think it will spill out from the cities into that and it's just [TS]

  a matter of having enough are you know cars on the roads that are that are [TS]

  performing those tasks to be able to do it in a suburban areas well like I know [TS]

  a lot of people still think in the suburbs just not feasible you have to go [TS]

  grocery shopping you know and do all these things that are sort of always a [TS]

  drive away but again at scale i'm not so sure that that's totally unreasonable i [TS]

  was listening to one bill simmons podcast recently and [TS]

  he and i think only half in jest he has a theory that because of uber there are [TS]

  more people having accidental third kids because over the existence of uber makes [TS]

  it so much easier for like parents with kids to go out and have a couple drinks [TS]

  at dinner [TS]

  yeah then they would in the past like if you had to drive some one of the two of [TS]

  you would have to you don't have to abstain and if both of you know if you [TS]

  just take an uber to dinner you can both you know you can both drink and so his [TS]

  theory there's gonna be a lot more families with three kids instead it if [TS]

  that's pretty funny i like that [TS]

  hey boomer you know like a right who was helping the world in in in families with [TS]

  families that's what it's all about but there's it's it seems funny because it's [TS]

  you know it's just a funny idea that people are going to do have extra baby's [TS]

  butt but there's a certain logic to yeah you think it's me donated that you know [TS]

  it's sort of the the flip side of that just in general isn't it great to know [TS]

  like with when you go out in a city or or not anywhere really you know when you [TS]

  want to have a few drinks like you just do not have to worry about it you in [TS]

  that just was not the reality 10 years ago of course right and there's parts of [TS]

  philly you know this man doesn't matter it doesn't mean anything to you if [TS]

  you're not here but like an area we call fishtown and and like the gentrified [TS]

  area like the part that was really kind of sketchy even 10-15 years ago and [TS]

  there's all that sort of like that that's where all the hipsters stuff yes [TS]

  but there's lots and like I mean it because of that there's it's all sorts [TS]

  of no new restaurants that open up open up in that area and it's always even now [TS]

  that it's more popular grossly under served by cabs so like you can get a cab [TS]

  to go there easily but then when you want to leave you are you know good luck [TS]

  you know you can and it's actually the type of thing where you know you [TS]

  actually like call a cab company which seems like such an old-timey thing to do [TS]

  but then you know you wait and it's like everytime i remember from gonna be in [TS]

  the old days before ruber [TS]

  stuff like that if i did call for a cab you know you could wait half an hour and [TS]

  then they don't come oh yeah I mean that was that was very much the reality of [TS]

  the situation when I got to san francisco almost 10 years ago and of [TS]

  course this is you know that everyone knows the thing now like part of the [TS]

  reason why you were came into existence i mean the main story was like they were [TS]

  in Paris and and sort of a a tech conference and sort of talking about you [TS]

  know like wouldn't it be cool to have a black car service or whatever but the [TS]

  reality is that when they got back to San Francisco everyone was living in [TS]

  this reality we're san francisco public transportation was awful and it still is [TS]

  awful outside over you know muni is the the line here that some the public [TS]

  transportation that goes down all the time and is always running late and it's [TS]

  it's a constant joke if you follow like mat Honan on on Twitter it's like fifty [TS]

  percent of his tweets are complaining about muni and then we have the BART [TS]

  system which is that we have all these like sort of half-baked public [TS]

  transportation things but when i moved to san francisco i lived in an area [TS]

  called russian hill which was not connected to any where near any of the [TS]

  public transportation [TS]

  aside from the cable cars which I would take every once in a while which is sort [TS]

  of ridiculous because it's very much you know like a tourist thing and so I'm on [TS]

  there with you know 50 tourists and I'm trying to take this to commute into soma [TS]

  and it takes forever because it was slow to appreciate the view or whatever but [TS]

  that was the reality of public transportation for me when I moved to [TS]

  San Francisco and yes so like you would see a cab [TS]

  every once in awhile but if you if you would have to get lucky to sort of spot [TS]

  one out there and that was even still like a better situation than trying to [TS]

  call one i mean i remember i would call them from my apartment in russian hill [TS]

  and and it would be often like a 45-minute wait and about half the time [TS]

  they just wouldn't show up at all so you couldn't trust it and so like when [TS]

  people are talking about you know like like there's a simple things that led to [TS]

  the rise of of services like uber and they're just why the the cab companies [TS]

  get all mad like you know that that this is happening to them it's like I mean [TS]

  they really did do it to themselves [TS]

  yeah in philly it's again a long story short but the cab situation here is to [TS]

  I've told the story on the show before but it really is true Phillies cabs [TS]

  r-really lower less regulated in terms of i can just the mean we have it's just [TS]

  like new york and other big cities where you have to have a taxi medallion and [TS]

  limit the number of medallions you know it so it's like artificial school ready [TS]

  but the actual cars themselves don't have very high inspection standards and [TS]

  New York does and so most of the cabs on the road in Philadelphia our cabs that [TS]

  failed regular you know the inspection [TS]

  that's fine i just ship they just shifting down the Jersey Turnpike and [TS]

  sell them to cab companies in philly or police cruisers the last time I could [TS]

  remember the name of the car Crown Victorias just a and some of them you if [TS]

  you actually pay attention to the crown vic cabs in philly you can actually [TS]

  still see the ones that have the police back they just they just paint them they [TS]

  just paint over that's funny [TS]

  they're just and everybody knows that police officers abuse their cars their [TS]

  course you know they drive up curves you know here and there you know their [TS]

  inaction and then once the police are like wow this isn't even good enough to [TS]

  use for a police cruiser anymore then they just sell them to a cab company in [TS]

  philly and they're just really again this is a total white wine this is [TS]

  absolutely coming from a position of privilege but the the cat most of the [TS]

  cabin philly they're just gross [TS]

  they're just gross be a they don't smell good that the air conditioning is a lot [TS]

  of them especially the crown fixed and then the crown vics are there because [TS]

  they're not making them anymore and so slowly but surely they're getting off [TS]

  the roads and they're being replaced by newer cars but like the crown vics they [TS]

  all have the the safety style divider between you and the the cab writer [TS]

  window with Plexiglas and most of them there's just like this gross [TS]

  I swear to God like a 2-inch diameter tube down on the floor coming from the [TS]

  front which is where the heater air-conditioning gets sent to the back [TS]

  but that's great i guess that at first I thought you were going that's where sort [TS]

  of the the the driver discharges when they've been driving for a long time so [TS]

  that's slightly better than that but yeah slightly but it's definitely but [TS]

  like--imagine like an accordion style too [TS]

  don't like the last attitude like this or you know there's 12 kids can like [TS]

  wave around and they make like a funny noise it's like that type of tube and [TS]

  it's just there on the floor and that's that's where your air conditioning and [TS]

  its really it they did it to them and so that used to be the situation to with [TS]

  cabs in san francisco for sure they were disgusting like the ridiculous cars i've [TS]

  noticed the only time I ever take a cab anymore in San Francisco have taken a [TS]

  few coming back from the airport just because obviously a lot of cities as i'm [TS]

  sure you know to have these weird rules around like we're never lift can pick [TS]

  you up and like you know after that it takes sometimes longer to wait because [TS]

  of that is results so if I'm in a hurry I'll just hop in a cab and so I've been [TS]

  in a few recently coming back from places and uh the cabs are like night [TS]

  and day better than they were those eight years ago I mean it'sit's the case [TS]

  of just the existence of uber lyft and everything else has caused them to use [TS]

  force them to to up their game which means no longer accordion tubes of heat [TS]

  and of course they all now have you know sort of the at first [TS]

  none of them would take credit card in San Francisco it drove me a taxane now [TS]

  they all seem to as a result of this but yeah things like that and you can summon [TS]

  a few from apps now it seems like an and whatnot so it has risen all prison [TS]

  the tide has risen for all boats but still got to come took that case for it [TS]

  to happen [TS]

  alright let's hold that thought because i'll come back to it [TS]

  I don't want to talk about apple and where the rises self-driving cars might [TS]

  play into apples car emissions but I'm gonna take a breaker and thank our first [TS]

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  diversified long-term investment portfolio without high fees in fact with [TS]

  very low fees and with a minimal account minimums you don't you don't have to put [TS]

  a lot of money in you just give it your money too well friend invested there and [TS]

  then they take care of all the complex stuff of [TS]

  where to actually invest it investors with small accounts love wealthfront [TS]

  because they're low account minimum is just 500 bucks so you don't have to put [TS]

  a lot of money into this if you want to get started without well front and in [TS]

  fact I even their clients who have larger investments large investments [TS]

  typically start with a small amount just to see what it's like just to [TS]

  double-check don't take my word for it as a guy reading the podcast add just [TS]

  you know put $500,000 in see how it works see how easy the website is etc [TS]

  and then put your quote-unquote real money in but you can start with just 500 [TS]

  bucks and up to ten thousand dollars is managed for free [TS]

  totally free but if you follow the URL i have for you which is wealthfront calm / [TS]

  the talk show you get up to fifteen thousand dollars manage for free [TS]

  investors with larger accounts over $15,000 love wealthfront because they [TS]

  have incredibly valuable investment services they do things like something [TS]

  called tax-loss harvesting long story short it just minimizes the amount of [TS]

  taxes you have to pay strategically on your investment and the fees are [TS]

  incredibly low their client fee is just one quarter of one percent and that's [TS]

  only on the money you put in the account over ten thousand dollars but it's over [TS]

  fifteen thousand dollars if you follow my url so if you're looking for a [TS]

  smarter way to invest for the long term go check them out they have so much [TS]

  information on our website and so many different account types they have [TS]

  corporate accounts they have anything you can want way more detailed than i [TS]

  can tell you go to wealthfront dot-com / the talk show while front calm / the [TS]

  talk show it's a great place to invest your money so i would say this is one of [TS]

  the most frequent emails I get on a weekly basis from readers of daring [TS]

  fireball or listeners of the show is just readers just saying hey hey John [TS]

  idea I [TS]

  what if Apple's car project isn't about a car that they're going to sell what if [TS]

  it's a like a self-driving car service and I I can't tell you I I mean [TS]

  literally I get a two or three emails like that a week and my answer is I i if [TS]

  I did if I answer that you may like a lot of times I don't have time to answer [TS]

  emails i'm sorry about that but my answer is maybe I I don't know it's [TS]

  possible i mean my only thing about that though is that Apple traditionally is a [TS]

  company that at its core makes objects that are beautiful that are [TS]

  well-designed that have like a sexiness to them and then they sell them to [TS]

  people who want nice things at a premium price that's just what Apple does so the [TS]

  common sense would tell me that it just by history that if Apple's making a car [TS]

  they're making a car that they plan to sell a up on a high-profit yeah i mean [TS]

  so that's been a thing that that's been bandied about i guess since since the [TS]

  whole rumors of apple car started first and foremost it was but I wasn't going [TS]

  to be an electric car and it seems like I mean that's it that seems like a [TS]

  for-sure thing right there is no chance that Apple makes a you know an old gas [TS]

  guzzler type car I i would say oh yeah I would say of all the maybes and who the [TS]

  hell knows what they're planning with cars that's the one thing i would i [TS]

  would say is a hundred percent like yeah because it's it's so off their brand at [TS]

  this bright we're so committed with environments and everything right like [TS]

  right yeah they're so committed to the environment I mean I here in fact that [TS]

  it's the same everywhere but here in philly that front of the store right now [TS]

  says this store is that runs on the other percent renewal is all that exists [TS]

  think the other day [TS]

  yep did Paris person away right [TS]

  you could sell a device that runs on gasoline was inside the door that says [TS]

  the store runs on our presenter noble energy you just can't it's off the brand [TS]

  so I just clearly they're not I don't even think they're they're looking at [TS]

  maybe yeah maybe in like 10 years i have the campaign like you know we you know [TS]

  we really are upset that global warming has slowed to the level you know [TS]

  sustainability so we're really amping [TS]

  stop we want to want to get back on track [TS]

  the world is becoming too cold and so yeah so that I do wonder like I and I [TS]

  also think i mean i would i would guess that that also rules out a hybrid you [TS]

  know they could do something like that i guess but i would imagine that they just [TS]

  were in this thread the place now with with we're Tesla's at where it would [TS]

  make no sense i think to even do a hybrid approach it has to be all [TS]

  electric right i think so I i think even and I I just think they can get they [TS]

  just can't get near I think I think branding wise is why I'm sorry that they [TS]

  just can't get near gasoline but i think just putting on my you know predicting [TS]

  the future hat I i just think that's on the way out i think that hybrids were [TS]

  obviously a stop wrap and you know maybe a necessary when I'm not even saying [TS]

  that they weren't you know that the hybrids are on a road aren't doing a [TS]

  good job but it clearly doesn't seem like that's where the puck is go so the [TS]

  other . of wood apple just do this as sort of a service type thing is the [TS]

  interesting question i mean i'm with you that I I it just doesn't seem like it's [TS]

  it's what they do that they would they would do something like that it is [TS]

  interesting to think about if they're you know if they're sort of looking at [TS]

  the big level picture of what everyone else is looking at like with with her to [TS]

  the quote-unquote doom of Apple you know that they can't find they can't find a [TS]

  business that some that's more interesting than the iphone do they [TS]

  start to really think outside the box and as they start to go down past more [TS]

  services I mean maybe there's a chance that you know they realized that this [TS]

  beyond just selling a car themselves maybe it's more interesting to have a [TS]

  service that's you know potentially a more stable source of ongoing revenue [TS]

  maybe but I don't I mean I don't think that's the case but it that's the only [TS]

  like argument i could make as to why they would do something like that arm i [TS]

  do think the self-driving question itself is interesting it also would seem [TS]

  to me that that's what they would likely be going after versus having it just be [TS]

  one electric but I don't know about that it's possible that they're doing like a [TS]

  cat [TS]

  two pronged approach one an electric car that you can drive yourself like Tesla [TS]

  to the fully self driving one or some sort of hybrid is you know like sort of [TS]

  a lot of the test was now we're rolling out these like software updates to do [TS]

  like autonomous driving in some capacity like when it's on the freeway and [TS]

  whatnot so they could end up being something like that I'd I just feel like [TS]

  the timeline doesn't add up to bank on self-driving my my best guess and it to [TS]

  sound so like like I'm trying to have it every way I'm not you know I'm not [TS]

  making a front prediction but my guess is that Apple is working on electric [TS]

  cars that they are absolutely working on self-driving technologies and when you [TS]

  know let's say that earlier i think the earliest they could possibly actually [TS]

  unveil an apple-branded car is like 20 20 so even even if there's some kind of [TS]

  apple magic that throwing their resources at that then that proves me [TS]

  wrong 2019 [TS]

  I mean it just seems crazy to go from not having a car a other than as a [TS]

  secret project to actually having them on the road that you can by 2019 seems [TS]

  like Fantasyland by 2020 will self-driving cars be there that you [TS]

  could do like the not even have your hands on the you know not even be paying [TS]

  attention to the road [TS]

  I just don't see that as possible and even just legally right even if the [TS]

  technology I think the technology is going to get there before the laws yet [TS]

  but i mean that's that's a hundred percent sure I mean I guess they could [TS]

  keep maybe you could look at it it's sort of like the way you know like the [TS]

  iphone role that right like there were armed faster 3g services at the time [TS]

  right but they rolled out without 3g and so like maybe it is still the case even [TS]

  if there was a self-driving cars out on the road and like or us a 75-percent [TS]

  self-driving it's like it could be self-driving beyond like a few you know [TS]

  areas where it's not it's possible that Apple would just roll out it is not you [TS]

  know not all advertised or whatever as as self-driving because they don't feel [TS]

  it's a good enough experience yet and that's that I could see that you know [TS]

  that world where it's like you know maybe maybe who was something out there [TS]

  maybe we were maybe Tesla and they're they're building the Morris self-driving [TS]

  but apples a bit more sort of cautious on that front and and and really waiting [TS]

  for it to be like a fully self driving thing before they go down that road [TS]

  yeah that's exactly what i think is that they're they're planning for that full [TS]

  steam ahead but that they are also planning i'm guessing to ship a car [TS]

  before thats ready yeah and that exactly you know the analogy to 3G and LTE but [TS]

  3g is the perfect example because their 3g was actually there were 3g phones [TS]

  it's actually one of the you know if you go back and look at the claim chapter of [TS]

  the people who hoop and the original iphone they'd be like it's not even [TS]

  three join you know it's right [TS]

  I i think it's that sort of thing where they're like look for practical purposes [TS]

  we're going to go with edge for this one and you know we'll pick up 3g years but [TS]

  do you think that they would do the sort of like with testicles done so they roll [TS]

  out one high-end you know the test started with the roadster which is like [TS]

  super high-end super fancy sports right and then in yuan muskan that in that [TS]

  great blog post many years ago laid out exactly what they were going to do and [TS]

  what they're now going off right that they would then roll out a cheaper [TS]

  version and then sort of a SUV type version and then like the cheapest [TS]

  version you know sort of the mass-market version do you think Apple would take [TS]

  that approach something akin to that where they do sort of one at a time [TS]

  first throwing out like say two models you know like a high-end version and [TS]

  then more like the sedan 44 regular folks or something [TS]

  prime prior to Apple watch i would have said one for sure because that's how [TS]

  Apple always drives right there's one iphone there's one ipad here it is this [TS]

  is the ipad and only years down the road are there things like ipad pros and iPad [TS]

  minis and you know low end models with two-year-old at systems-on-chip and [TS]

  high-end models with the latest and greatest only your cetera but without [TS]

  after Apple watch [TS]

  I i think i don't know i don't i don't know that you know maybe Apple why I [TS]

  keep thinking that maybe Apple watch is [TS]

  not that was that not the only reason they did it was a test for the car but [TS]

  that it it lays out the formula for the car where they might do three right [TS]

  Apple car sport right 20,000 25,000 dollars or something like that twenty [TS]

  thirty thousand dollars Apple car [TS]

  $50,000 and the Apple car edition you know for 400,000 quick arm i I'm [TS]

  laughing but part of the reason i say that is that I know that there's enough [TS]

  you know executives at apple or I've been to the apple parking lot there are [TS]

  a lot of really nice cars in in the infinite loop parking lot people who [TS]

  work at Apple have nice cars it's almost like I've and we know like Johnny Ivan [TS]

  and filler and who else um Eddy Cue right he was I thinking on the board of [TS]

  Lamborghini i think yeah yeah yeah so they're obviously car guys there they [TS]

  like their fancy correct yeah so you know how you know how do you know if [TS]

  they're already car guys who like exotic cars how does Apple get into it without [TS]

  making an exact well into to tie it back to what we were talking about earlier [TS]

  you know we're talking about in the context of Hoover like not needing to [TS]

  own a car anymore like if we're talking about let's say it's it's 2020 so it's [TS]

  you know a little less than four years states for years from now for five years [TS]

  now and more people are in the space of what you know sort of you and your wife [TS]

  or debating and me and my wife now live in in let's just say in urban areas at [TS]

  least in in city areas that they feel like they don't need to own a car like [TS]

  is it weird for Apple to be making a car that they would potentially be selling [TS]

  for whatever $50,000 in a world where a decreasing number of people are buying [TS]

  cars that's a great question that's part of why I find this whole topic [TS]

  fascinating because there's so many trends that are moving right there's [TS]

  that that we've talked about him but there's the you know gas to electric [TS]

  there's the self-driving is coming [TS]

  there's and then like you there's this whole shared in a ride-sharing thing [TS]

  where people just a home cars . i think my guess is that ok [TS]

  fewer and fewer people are buying cars but Apple can enter and if you're going [TS]

  to buy a car they're gonna they're gonna have a compelling right all right you [TS]

  know that it's easy to say sure look fewer people are buying cars but it's [TS]

  you know people also said fewer people are buying launches fewer people where [TS]

  watch than ever before that's true that's good . because i was gonna I was [TS]

  gonna say like pcs for people are buying pcs right but that mac is still doing [TS]

  well relatively speaking but would they enter that world now you know knowing [TS]

  its overall shrinking world and that this would say they wouldn't but it's [TS]

  it's a calculation you have to make yeah I i totally I think so but i just think [TS]

  that the market for cars is so big that so many you know there are so many car [TS]

  companies and so many you know it's just so much money in the industry overall [TS]

  that even if its shrinks you know significantly that a apple can take a [TS]

  sizable chunk of the profitable end of that market and it still is right and [TS]

  it's a potential you know talking going back to the what is the next iphone it's [TS]

  a one of the potential things that could actually match the iphone like I think [TS]

  we're all I think everyone i would assume you're an agreement now like and [TS]

  and always have been but like that even at the AA the best-case scenario for [TS]

  Apple watch it cannot match what the iphone did just because of the whole [TS]

  subsidy model you know and a way that that the world just worked back then in [TS]

  the watch has nothing like that even if Apple sells more of them overall they're [TS]

  not going to make as much money off of it because it's just a different [TS]

  business right there's no way even no matter how popular Apple watch because [TS]

  it's not going to sell in the quantity that iphone does and each one they do [TS]

  sell is going to sell for at least half the price if not even less than half the [TS]

  price of of the iphone to the right because almost everybody gets the sport [TS]

  model [TS]

  which is a mistake guys with a lower price product it's a lower price which [TS]

  one did you advise know I should've bought a sport i bought the the regular [TS]

  apple watch not the addition i bought the the regular one and I just like I [TS]

  don't know why I did that I did that because I thought it would be slightly [TS]

  different or whatever but it definitely should have gotten the sport anyway [TS]

  that's it aside [TS]

  yeah i've mentioned i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i have the spot [TS]

  i'm actually wearing it today i have the the regular one with the space black and [TS]

  I do like a link style bracelet and it is a wonderful breaking out and it's [TS]

  very comfortable but I'm i really think that the sport models are superior just [TS]

  because the taptic engine works better [TS]

  yeah and it wasn't supposed to have a slightly better screen i was a remember [TS]

  like something slightly better huh [TS]

  it's the the display isn't any better but the surface of the display on that [TS]

  spun on the regular apple watches sapphire that's right other one is [TS]

  whatever I on my hood class you know so it's does pick up fine scratches got it [TS]

  but I've looked at my son's my son worse as an Apple watch from a live i guess [TS]

  around a year and where is it a lot and you know he's a twelve-year-old kid and [TS]

  he's you know it's not like he's taking good care but I've looked at the screen [TS]

  and it does have fine scratches but it's no different than any other you know nan [TS]

  sapphire coded watch that I've worn it yeah you know and when you actually [TS]

  looking at the displayed on the scratches argued you can't see them you [TS]

  have to do the thing where you turn it display off and kinda find a glare a [TS]

  glaring light source to source right spot the scratch right [TS]

  yes so but anyway the so yeah most people are buying the cheaper version [TS]

  and so the car you know high-end cars are one of the few things that could [TS]

  produce the types of revenues that would match iphone potentially a massive scale [TS]

  right or it at least be like the same class of plan right [TS]

  I don't you know I mean like so maybe the iphone is still Jupiter but you know [TS]

  it's still going to you know the car potentially is another you know gas [TS]

  giant could be like Neptune or something [TS]

  as opposed to the apple watch is really just like another Venus or Mars or [TS]

  something [TS]

  yes I gets a planet it's running on its not Pluto it's a real planet but it's [TS]

  come on you can't compare to Jupiter but the car could be just because the car [TS]

  with self just you know it [TS]

  third eat you know it could easily sell for thirty thousand dollars quite frank [TS]

  you know let's example so it's probably more so I know you want to talk about [TS]

  the Peter till thing too as well and and we can get to that but before we're [TS]

  still on the top example the one thing that I've been thinking about a lot [TS]

  recently is the whole Alexa and you know they're the rumors now I think the [TS]

  information have to report the other day that apple would be working on a [TS]

  potential echo competitor and of course google announced their home thing at i/o [TS]

  which is the echo competitor and sort of i'm interested in your take on on that [TS]

  like I think that up at a high level you know we went back and forth and Twitter [TS]

  a little bit one night and I think you know my my perspective on it which is [TS]

  that the well hold your thought your target because that was already in my [TS]

  list of topics you want to talk to John and I would we could do a whole segment [TS]

  so let me take a break and thank another sponsor thank our good friends at [TS]

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  know Kendall see you know like that you can play it on that you can even play it [TS]

  on your good old-fashioned ipod which is really where audible got started spot [TS]

  sponsoring podcast was you download the stuff and just stick them on your ipod [TS]

  and listen to audio books are great for flights road trips your daily commute [TS]

  really and [TS]

  think the reason inaudible keeps coming back to sponsor this show and other [TS]

  podcasts is that if you're listening to me read this [TS]

  sponsored blurb that means you like listening to spoken audio content and if [TS]

  you find yourself craving more auto you're not going to you know [TS]

  nobody has the commute long enough to listen to all those stuff that audible [TS]

  as so go there and check it out [TS]

  30 day free trial / talk show my thanks to audible for their [TS]

  continued sponsorship of the show you quickly before we go into a collection [TS]

  why not you brought up the summit's podcast earlier i was a scary always [TS]

  curious if you ever thought about doing what he does when he does is sponsor [TS]

  reads and plays like I think he played second Tupac's or whatever in the [TS]

  background but do you think about you know like a way to sort of I don't know [TS]

  person it differently than their the rest of the show i have is funny it I [TS]

  it's very funny that you would bring that up because two reasons that i have [TS]

  thought about that is a bill simmons podcast which now that with this whole [TS]

  ring thing there's more of them and I've been listening to them and I've noticed [TS]

  that and i like i like i really like his reads too i think he does a great job at [TS]

  it it makes me want to up my game on making sure that the the reeds are [TS]

  engaging like that's really one of the things i feel like i feel like when i do [TS]

  the show [TS]

  I'm just having fun talking to people who i like talking about and my job is [TS]

  doing the sponsor reads in a way that makes people not want to skip yep and [TS]

  how can i do that would i would it take from me if I were listening to the talk [TS]

  show to not want to skip this ad and I never skip those sentences so I really [TS]

  and it inspires me but I've noticed that he plays that the musical yeah and then [TS]

  that the the gang on accidental tech podcast has started they've been it's [TS]

  almost like an in-joke where they haven't been playing music behind the [TS]

  reeds but they've been they've added little of sounds but to start it and [TS]

  close them [TS]

  ok so people to give people an indication of like this is this is now [TS]

  you know this latter brake arm thinking and you know and it's [TS]

  monitoring and in it and when it's over it's like done done and then it's like [TS]

  your back and and i have to mention because they did it Marco Arment on ATP [TS]

  said that his inspiration for starting to do that when he had its the show is [TS]

  the absolutely great podcast which I've mentioned before hello internet with the [TS]

  ctp crepes [TS]

  cgpgrey and the other guy when so I've listened to simmons podcast for a long [TS]

  time you know dating dating back well to like the earlier the rat probably near [TS]

  here when he started at ESPN and I think because originally they would play I [TS]

  think they would play like can dads and they still do this on many ESPN podcast [TS]

  and so he slowly evolved into the more of the the reed statute that you here [TS]

  now and certainly what you do and everything one of the reasons why I [TS]

  think like you you like him and I like them too is because he was so bad at it [TS]

  at first like it's almost like arm when someone told him that you know well you [TS]

  gotta do you gotta like actually talk about it that's what resonates with sort [TS]

  of podcast listeners and so you know if you're just like you're having a [TS]

  conversation then all of a sudden dive into a spiel about you know whatever the [TS]

  the advertiser is doing it it uh it comes across much better than sort of a [TS]

  canned recording of whatever that advertiser is saying and so first he was [TS]

  so bad at it and I think he's evolved over time and almost like plays on like [TS]

  being bad at it it because it's not so bad anymore but it's like it's just [TS]

  natural right it's like the way that he would talk about it and I think you [TS]

  honestly think you do a good job of it as well but the only thing is his just [TS]

  feels like more raw that's that's what it is yet [TS]

  yeah out i have to add it [TS]

  Brady Haran is the other co-host of of hello internet but they did they date [TS]

  they do the same thing with the one-percent I don't have to think about [TS]

  it I'm not set in my ways on this okay so Cirie so they're so the information [TS]

  has scooped the other day that Apple is planning both a Serie A pi/4 developers [TS]

  to extend its eerie and an echo like standalone device [TS]

  which is like the also competitive with the upcoming google home right arm so i [TS]

  have had a amazon echo i always get confused whether she called alexa [TS]

  correctly ya go [TS]

  it uses Alexa is the the persona obviously but it's also how you address [TS]

  it Yusei right it's a letter it was a temperature branding issue i think they [TS]

  just called alexa honestly but anyway so I've had one for several months now [TS]

  about a quarter and use definitely use it daily when i'm home and let the [TS]

  lesson on the road of course and him slowly but surely finding new use cases [TS]

  for it you know it started as sort of novelty of course just you know what's [TS]

  the weather and and whatever [TS]

  now i use it almost daily to to sort of read me the latest news which is sort of [TS]

  another obvious one but it's sort of a nice weight just a when you when you get [TS]

  up in the morning just like Alexa what's latest news and it will just start doing [TS]

  it like there's no there's no fun to unlock there's no button to push you [TS]

  just speak out loud that's what you want my wife uses it all the time when she's [TS]

  cooking to say and it's like a constant thing it's almost like a like a and [TS]

  orchestrated event of her cooking and with the election the kitchen saying [TS]

  like Alexis set a timer for two minutes then two minutes goes by it goes off [TS]

  alexa off [TS]

  Alexis set a timer for five minutes and it's like this whole thing that just [TS]

  goes on everybody know every night that she's cooking and it's a it's really a [TS]

  good device and i was skeptical of it when i first heard about it because it [TS]

  seemed ridiculous right it's a standalone expensive thing that does a [TS]

  lot of what you can already do with Cirie and Cortana and you know what our [TS]

  google now and some of the other things but in using it it's useful [TS]

  yeah and there's a certain like the the kitchen scenario that cooking and [TS]

  cooking in the kitchen scenario is almost ideal for I have 12 i just got it [TS]

  like three weeks ago and and i'm not using it that much but I i think one of [TS]

  the reasons you have any of the smart home stuff like olives and stuff like [TS]

  that I don't have anything like that yet now [TS]

  not that I think we do have like 10 light bulbs burn out that we use and we [TS]

  don't have that like a nest or anything like that currently installed right but [TS]

  but for the cooking stuff so I know people you know people don't use their [TS]

  phones stuff like that and I know definitely people use like smartwatches [TS]

  like your Apple watch or whatever the SmartWatch to do that stuff too but the [TS]

  thing with echo is it's completely hands-free so you don't have to push a [TS]

  button on the watch or fish your phone out of your pocket or on you know I know [TS]

  your phone i guess if you you know if you have a new iphone you could if you [TS]

  have it plugged in you can fry the hey you know the name of I try to avoid it's [TS]

  one of the beep it but sorry but you know it works even if not plug-in like [TS]

  this is a big thing that people always just now that's that you think you have [TS]

  to have a new one for now that right that's a new feature right if you have [TS]

  like iphone success [TS]

  it just seems though that echo is more reliable like you can really count on it [TS]

  yeah it's if to get to make sure that you did it it it's giving you the timer [TS]

  that you just told I I still why I i go back and forth on this but told her to [TS]

  write right but I struggle I really struggle with the pronoun for these [TS]

  things i tend to use her with Cirie and it's even weirder because i know that in [TS]

  some countries it defaults to a male voice that's right yeah yeah seduce [TS]

  should use it and they have a whole it's a very strange dynamic that I think will [TS]

  never be fully sorted out but yes you bring up like the I don't even hesitate [TS]

  hesitate to call it accuracy because I'm not a hundred percent sure that like [TS]

  Alexa is more accurate than say Siri it seems that way but [TS]

  is more reliable right like and I think it's because it's a combination of [TS]

  things but one of the things is that you know when you set up Siri you have to [TS]

  set it up by like saying hey I i also want to set up all my devices [TS]

  uh you know the word hey she who shall not be named and so you have to do that [TS]

  a few times right and so it's like Apple obviously thought that that's like a [TS]

  good way to make it sort of personalized to you and so someone else can't [TS]

  necessarily set it off but that is also a limiting factor it seems like it and [TS]

  makes it less reliable and so [TS]

  amazon just deciding not to do with that way and just leaving it open so anyone [TS]

  can trigger it you know ends up being I think a smarter implementation at least [TS]

  for now how to do that [TS]

  yeah and anecdotally I've read this and and I've had since I've started talking [TS]

  about this and you know heard from people on Twitter and an email sending [TS]

  me that a lot i've heard of most numerous times that people with young [TS]

  kids their kids can use the echo really reliably and they have no luck at all [TS]

  with Siri Siri really doesn't series speech recognition really isn't good [TS]

  with kids and it's it's funny because would it [TS]

  it's like you know it you know that kids don't speak as our I don't even know [TS]

  what the word is are there not as articulate their they don't enunciate as [TS]

  crisply as adults right it's like but you don't you tend to think of it as [TS]

  well that's just how kids talk but its its seemingly from a speech recognition [TS]

  standpoint it's there just harder to understand whereas humans are so good [TS]

  that we don't really think of kids being harder to understand we just think of [TS]

  them as sounding as kids because I are our natural linguistic abilities are so [TS]

  good that we we just blow right through the way that they mispronounce words [TS]

  yeah as in so the kids thing is interesting also because before i got a [TS]

  echo everyone one of the main themes that coming up as I kids love it and I [TS]

  don't have kids at you have a son like this your son use it like no not really [TS]

  he just he studied I he kind of thinks it's pointless because but there's [TS]

  nothing he really wants to know from it that we have hooked up yeah we have on [TS]

  she did have fun is the family the one one or two nite playing music and [TS]

  calling out you know and then it's it's funny because it's like if there's a [TS]

  song on and any one of the three of us doesn't like it you can tell Alexa to [TS]

  stop and go play something else [TS]

  yeah and I think that that's I think that's been stated i don't know if it's [TS]

  by amazon or not that that's one of the main use cases of course is playing [TS]

  playing the music and it's um yeah it's pretty I it's a seamless way to you know [TS]

  do [TS]

  hey Alexa and said hey you don't have to say hey force alexa play you know what [TS]

  this the state [TS]

  this the state [TS]

  on pandora or whatever and you can hook up obviously amazon music you can hook [TS]

  up Pandora you can't hook up Apple music right now right so and so there's I [TS]

  don't expect apple to get on that quickly [TS]

  yeah now uh I don't care but so that's one big use case so the other thing is [TS]

  it obviously has a decent speaker but it's not great it's not like a so no sir [TS]

  or something like that and you can hook up because we also got that . thing you [TS]

  know the . yes smaller one is an aside the one thing I loved about that rollout [TS]

  was the fact that in order to first order a . you actually had to order it [TS]

  through the echo you had to say like uh alexa order me a . and I knew what I [TS]

  knew what it was I mean my wife actually did it and within three minutes or [TS]

  whatever it confirms and so we had a weird . ordered income and shipping to [TS]

  our house and we got inventory and work beautifully and you couldn't order it on [TS]

  the website at least $PERCENT of the time when they were when they first sort [TS]

  of rolled that out so that was the sort of fascinating i don't think you can now [TS]

  I mean I just searched amazon Franco don't see it go . let me see [TS]

  so you know wha where they do have it you can get it you can get a code . 489 [TS]

  dollars on amazon [TS]

  um you know it's hilarious now so I just was giving that whole spiel and I sort [TS]

  of god I just triggered Alexa and she's now playing music in my bedroom so I'm [TS]

  in my office right now 11 room down from the bedroom i all the sudden heard this [TS]

  music and I'm like is my wife home did you start playing music cuz I thought I [TS]

  heard a voice it was lexa and it was Alexis saying now playing whatever and [TS]

  so that's just music playing in the bedroom right now I stand corrected so [TS]

  there is a webpage on amazon for the echo . but it says X available [TS]

  exclusively from alexa code is available in limited quantities and exclusively [TS]

  for prime members through alexboys shopping so i think that's that's [TS]

  ingenious because it obviously makes it so that first and foremost only sort of [TS]

  hardcore hardcore users are going to to be able to get it and get it that way [TS]

  and people who already understand right be they have to have Alexa neco so [TS]

  right to be able to do it so it doesn't need like you know some sort of new [TS]

  learning curve of a sudden because you should already know how to use it based [TS]

  on that [TS]

  yeah i think the music playing is clearly you know the the end when this [TS]

  rumor from the information came out that Apple's to a device like this it in the [TS]

  works and that they've been working on it for quite a while a bunch of people [TS]

  so why why I have my phone with me everywhere I go you know if I'm gonna [TS]

  use Siri why do I need why wouldn't world I want another device [TS]

  I don't know what else they have planned for I don't know what other home [TS]

  integration you know home kit type features they might have in mind for [TS]

  what kind of a hub it might be for your entire home but the speaker alone makes [TS]

  sense for Apple to do just because music is still such a big part of what they [TS]

  want to be known for [TS]

  yep yeah and I'm sort of surprised that you know they were i know that you know [TS]

  they're they're almost never the first mover in these types of things but I'm [TS]

  sort of surprised that some sort of combination of things didn't lead them [TS]

  down this path earlier whether it be the airport express or apple TV as like a [TS]

  basically the way to do this like they're all those rumors remember that [TS]

  Apple TV was going to be the hub of their of their whole home initiative and [TS]

  maybe that's still ends up being the case but like that was the whole thing [TS]

  about like why is it running iOS and of course apps but also maybe you know the [TS]

  the home kit stuff and yeah i'm sort of just a little surprised that they didn't [TS]

  make a all-in-one type device and especially like knowing you know that [TS]

  the popular it's things like Sonos in the end they're obviously they had to [TS]

  work with us to get Apple music is one of the first things on there but maybe [TS]

  it was I think you made the joke the other day maybe it was the ipod [TS]

  high-five thing that started to persuade them from doing that because that was [TS]

  obviously a disaster [TS]

  that's what i wanted to call it i wanted the college Syria have the trademark [TS]

  yeah so [TS]

  but yeah it seems like a I think the way someone was saying this the other day [TS]

  and Twitter that it's great that we have like Alexa and and it's cool that you [TS]

  can sort of hook it up to sonos it's a pain honestly because you have to do it [TS]

  through like the back of the device and through a cable it's not it's not [TS]

  seamless at all and now we have things like 0 and like you know the new the [TS]

  newfangled routers that are out like it seems like someone should combine all of [TS]

  that into one thing right [TS]

  yes i think so but you run into I've thought about this right you it's like [TS]

  it seems like a big a big but like it just thinking about my house now like [TS]

  the cable comes in in the living room and it's sort of like that's where the [TS]

  the router needs to be i mean i right [TS]

  guess I could you know I i I'd have to like wire the house with internet our [TS]

  Ethernet or something or get the cable company to come out and put another [TS]

  cable connector somewhere else if I wanted it to be in the kitchen you know [TS]

  because I Maxwell music to play you know what I mean it's like I don't know I'm [TS]

  not cleared or III understand yes so that's like it that's one issue but sort [TS]

  of i don't know if you've had a chance to play around with like things like the [TS]

  euro and there's some other ones coming out that are you know these these [TS]

  newfangled routers that that allow you to better spread internet over your [TS]

  entire house I always it's better I have a box downstairs [TS]

  that's full of euro kit and it's still a oxide it just came the other day and I [TS]

  haven't had a chance to look at it so it on my radar and i'm going to set it up [TS]

  but yeah you should I mean we have we have one set up now and it's great it's [TS]

  a it's surprisingly great how well it works compared to what I previously just [TS]

  had a an airport extreme both it a bit extreme and then I'd like an express and [TS]

  I had like things like doing bridging and you know trying to get good service [TS]

  in my in the bedroom and then in the office and nothing has worked as well as [TS]

  a0 thing [TS]

  and so I wonder if sort of this this device things that we're talking about [TS]

  if they don't do [TS]

  yeah you have the main hub in the living room that's that's sort of connected to [TS]

  the still necessary for whatever reason cable modem and then everything else is [TS]

  like a satellite version sort of like the deco . right it's like a smaller [TS]

  version of it so no matter what room you're in your cups you're covered by [TS]

  it's sort of like what you have with sonos now for people who have sonos in [TS]

  multiple rooms you know they it wirelessly connect to it you can do [TS]

  wired of course but most people I think to the wireless version and so so some [TS]

  device it's like a combination of all these things so you have the speaker you [TS]

  have the voice assistant type thing and and you have your Wi-Fi all in one thing [TS]

  I mean that seems like we're all this should go but I i would imagine it'll [TS]

  take awhile for for someone to actually connect that all together to be able to [TS]

  work well yeah and it's just you know Apple has very you know right at the [TS]

  forefront of Wi-Fi you know i have been making base stations or whatever you [TS]

  want to call them you know the thing that great Wi-Fi in your house [TS]

  I mean apples been doing it emanate they were one of the first companies to [TS]

  really go public with it remember the shoulder demo indeed he just jumped onto [TS]

  of like a mattress [TS]

  yeah it was actually to prove that the ibook was getting the internet over the [TS]

  answer i was like her to 410 and like phil schiller actually performed a stunt [TS]

  on states like he take off a 10 foot high thing under like a padded landing [TS]

  thing and then showed that the that the ibook was still getting internet so [TS]

  apples been doing that for a long time I think that at this point it's it just [TS]

  seems like it's too fiddly especially for a house compared you know of an [TS]

  apartment you know it's easy to fill it with with your Wi-Fi but you know even [TS]

  here we haven't set up pretty good right now we just have the airport extreme I [TS]

  don't have any of the satellite devices like i used to have and it you know goes [TS]

  up one floor to my office and it's pretty good and it goes up two floors to [TS]

  our bedroom and [TS]

  good enough good enough that it doesn't make me want to get it [TS]

  another thing but even one floor down in our garage it's gone so like it's like [TS]

  when you get in the car [TS]

  it's like one floor down from where the router is and you want to update [TS]

  something on your phone quick it's like sometimes you have to like to do the [TS]

  fiddly thing when you turn off Wi-Fi because it's yeah that yeah yeah you [TS]

  should try 20 thing I think you like all I'm doing is like I told you it's down [TS]

  hit in the house so it's it's a sure thing that I will that I will try [TS]

  yeah so I don't know maybe that's that's what happens going with and I can't help [TS]

  but think that if if the information report is correct that they've been [TS]

  working on this device for quite a while [TS]

  I mean like according to the information years it kid [TS]

  it can't just be a speaker that listens for Siri because they that have you know [TS]

  if it's taken Apple years to do a speaker that listens for Siri that's [TS]

  that's a problem it has to be a little bit more ambitious than that in terms of [TS]

  serving as some kind of you know [TS]

  hey you don't have to buy these six different things you can just buy this [TS]

  plug this thing in and then you're set [TS]

  well and you brought it up I mean the importance of music certainly to apple [TS]

  and you know they obviously know the popularity of something like Sonos n it [TS]

  do you think then it would be just as predicated right being a great speaker [TS]

  sort of a sonos competitor with Siri built-in is that that may be what they [TS]

  would do [TS]

  maybe that's what I you know and and what they launched it as a family of [TS]

  devices at the beginning so that you can you know put them throughout your house [TS]

  I mean that seems to be one area that and I obviously amazon is is working on [TS]

  it as a solution because they have these . devices that are meant to be satellite [TS]

  devices and I know where to go home [TS]

  people asked when they announced it at i/o last week what if you have two of [TS]

  these things and they're like well we're working on that will get back right hard [TS]

  problem it [TS]

  yes and the amazon so the . like so in general I think the consensus is the [TS]

  echo speaker is ok it's it's it's good enough you know for for casual listening [TS]

  or whatever and the . one is considered to be much more subparts obviously much [TS]

  smaller it's just a tiny little thing [TS]

  that's why it has sort of the output to be able to hook it into a speaker and [TS]

  that's what they suggest you do actually [TS]

  so I wouldn't like if I rapel i would imagine that the way to do it is just [TS]

  what we were talking about to do like a really great speaker like a SonoSite [TS]

  speaker with the Serie capability built-in and I think that would be a [TS]

  great device for a lot of people i don't know how much that would cost you know [TS]

  and like it do they run the risk of it being another hifi like device [TS]

  yeah that's just sort of like an each product that's that's interesting to a [TS]

  few people i think not i think it's a lot more interesting to do it now [TS]

  especially with everything we just talked about with alexa but I don't know [TS]

  with a high-five they've really it it was I mean what I know for a fact that [TS]

  Steve Jobs was a huge fan of the hifi he really was and I mean I you know [TS]

  obviously he's willing to you know you know if it wasn't selling it wasn't [TS]

  selling even if he liked it so it wasn't like kept it around just because he [TS]

  liked it but I know he liked it and and they really put I was what was before I [TS]

  was regularly attending their press events and I was not at the at the intro [TS]

  event for it but i remember reading about it and they really went all out [TS]

  and they set up I Jason Snell was there and he was talking about a few weeks ago [TS]

  when he was on the show that the right there in like the upstairs area where [TS]

  they do the press briefings that the press events above the hall they brought [TS]

  in you know they made like an ikea almost like when they made a whole bunch [TS]

  of like living rooms you know better and of course you know like Apple they made [TS]

  them they were really nice you know they made all these laid like furnish the [TS]

  whole place is like an apartment complex and then had you know individual people [TS]

  you come in and it wasn't just like a hit play and listen to a few seconds [TS]

  they wanted you to like relax sit on the couch pretend you live here and listen [TS]

  to this everybody drink right and they really push like hate doesn't this sound [TS]

  amazing like they really really wanted to make that like I mean I i had i [TS]

  didn't buy one so i don't know i don't know how good it sounded but Apple at [TS]

  least really went all out at least in terms of marketing is pitching it is [TS]

  being high quality audio so I think that's one area where they could [TS]

  definitely get a leg up on echoes echo it's good it's not bad it's just you [TS]

  know good enough for like a speaker in your [TS]

  kitchen to play music but it's not great and so that plus like a great speaker + [TS]

  what what you know you mentioned from the information report with the Serie [TS]

  api's which obviously everyone's been clamoring for sincere II came out so [TS]

  that plus the ability to do much more than what up the echo can do because the [TS]

  echo has an API obviously and a lot of people are playing around with them [TS]

  doing some interesting things that like we mentioned over you know you can call [TS]

  an uber from it right now and but it does feel like a it's it's a little bit [TS]

  wonky it's a little bit and that wonky necessarily it's just I'm sure you use [TS]

  the app the app is awful for ya work the for the echo and it's hard to it would [TS]

  be hard for anyone like even it's even hard for me to figure out how exactly to [TS]

  to find things to install and what to install and it looks . awful so Apple [TS]

  will obviously do a better job of that and so it's not a question of like is it [TS]

  is it leaps and bounds better than what Amazon can do right now if if those [TS]

  api's are good enough [TS]

  yeah and I I really i'm really curious what form these api's come in in terms [TS]

  of like it I i can only presume that it'll be apps [TS]

  somehow I guess apps on your iphone or your iOS device but yes there do need to [TS]

  have it you need to have that app installed in order to have it bc reread [TS]

  e right [TS]

  what's that well yeah and if it's on multiple devices like how how does your [TS]

  serious if it's taking advantage of of a third party extension whatever you want [TS]

  to call it like let's just say let's just you know what we've been talking [TS]

  about them that's just a youtuber right let's say that through an extension [TS]

  you're gonna you're gonna allow Siri to hail you a nuber do you have to install [TS]

  it on all of your devices like address you would if it's through an app it but [TS]

  then how did it how would it get too [TS]

  the standalone device is I I yeah that's weird [TS]

  that's a good question because like it seems like it's an either/or thing right [TS]

  like either you would need it installed on all your devices that have hooked up [TS]

  to your seer like to your hey serious stuff or you would only do it on one so [TS]

  it doesn't get confused because like say you have uber installed on that they [TS]

  don't have an ipad version but you can still obviously install it or not the [TS]

  states to say you had it on an iPad and your iphone and then you summoned the [TS]

  uber via siri-like which 1i I guess it opens but both versions I well I mean it [TS]

  doesn't matter because on the back end it if presuming you were you were tied [TS]

  into the same account the same uber account when you open the app it should [TS]

  know they should be synced right in the back end so i guess it doesn't really [TS]

  matter but there's there's like a lot of more complicated issues like it the [TS]

  further you go down with that like which which version of the app that's running [TS]

  on which device are you something right [TS]

  I it's I so I'm don't know [TS]

  so my guess my best guess is to compare it to apple watch and so let's say they [TS]

  open up this serious DK then the uber app on your iOS device could have the [TS]

  Serie extension and then only on the iOS devices that have the latest version of [TS]

  the you brap would the Siri integration work but then also maybe you developers [TS]

  would be able to create like a hifi app and just like the way that it will say [TS]

  like oh there's an Apple watch app that you can install that there would be like [TS]

  if you have that the Serie hifi yeah you would have a serious hifi app on your [TS]

  phone and then you'd go just like you go to the Apple watch app to install an app [TS]

  on your watch you go to the hifi app to install the extension on your tie the [TS]

  that we're getting pretty complicated right i think i see and it's it makes [TS]

  sense to me like that's exactly what i think is [TS]

  it this makes sense to me technically because i can draw a little arrows for [TS]

  all the devices and i see ok so you download it to your phone and from your [TS]

  phone you can install it on your watch and you can install it on the thing but [TS]

  then it seems to me like you're doing an awful lot of fiddly system administrator [TS]

  type stuff with those prices [TS]

  yeah and so is there better like is it just feel the app and now apps require [TS]

  like I don't know some sort of knew I cloud instance that it that's like [TS]

  handling it right and that's exactly is the other that it you know just erase [TS]

  everything that I just speculate about is there going to be some kind of way [TS]

  that a developer would be able to have like an iCloud instance of this API and [TS]

  end it and that's a total new territory for apple like that's unlike that [TS]

  anything i can think of that Apple's ever done [TS]

  yeah yeah I've not I don't know but it's good that they're I think it's smart of [TS]

  course that they're playing in the space smart that google is as well like all [TS]

  these guys are pouring so much so many resources into these assistants and you [TS]

  know that the whole day I aspect obviously marcos post about apple and AI [TS]

  and stuff a unit that they need to be able to get enough data to constantly [TS]

  improve these things and it's almost like table stakes it seems like it's [TS]

  going to be now that you need to have the home version of whatever the [TS]

  assistant thing is to be able to to keep up and remain on par with all the other [TS]

  competitors [TS]

  yeah one of the things i was thinking about it in light of Marcos post the [TS]

  other day about it is I was trying to think because I didn't agree with him [TS]

  fully [TS]

  I I it was a great post and AG the ways that i disagree it's just all you know [TS]

  it's not like Marcos dominant like no Marco smart and I actually see the logic [TS]

  of what he's saying but something doesn't sit right with me and then I [TS]

  thought about like social networking and social networking is obviously a huge [TS]

  part of the whole industry that we talked about [TS]

  I mean facebook is a giant company now and and super influential I mean it's [TS]

  did you know literally [TS]

  that's scandals in the last few weeks or a controversy i should say about the [TS]

  weather or not [TS]

  facebook is single-handedly skewing political news and in read us a hugely [TS]

  influential instagram is a huge success [TS]

  twitter we do know that Twitter's twitter i love it but it's you know it [TS]

  is what it is but it certainly is if I don't want to go down the route of [TS]

  talking about Twitter's a business but it's culturally though its influences [TS]

  undeniable i always say like the one thing about Twitter they eat it's just [TS]

  stunning how everytime i watch TV news and somebody comes on it they tell you [TS]

  what their twitter handle is however it's it's well and if you watch ESPN at [TS]

  all it's like yeah it's a significant percentage of ESPN via reporting via [TS]

  talking about tweets it's crazy [TS]

  yeah yes pngs sports in the twitters influence in the sports world alone is [TS]

  astounding and it's it's just crazy especially as we go down the path of the [TS]

  NBA playoffs and stuff its I don't I think well and now major league baseball [TS]

  is a ton of Twitter to so now it's it's just everywhere in sports [TS]

  Apple has no real social networking and they've even tried twice they had ping [TS]

  and then last year the I don't remember what it's called the middle tab of Apple [TS]

  music it right-click the thing that's going away right and I hasn't taken off [TS]

  hasn't really you know it never gain a foothold but so what [TS]

  Apple has it in a second level way sort of thrived on social networking because [TS]

  people use their iphones to facebook and to Instagram and sweet and yeah it's you [TS]

  know it's it's only made the the rise of social networking largely coincides with [TS]

  the rise of the iphone and it's a big part of why i think that there's a real [TS]

  difference that i was thinking about it and the the voice assistance aren't like [TS]

  that because the voice assistance to be useful have to be built into the system [TS]

  like there is a court Anna app there is the google app has all of the googles [TS]

  assistant type stuff you know the the startups that are in this space have [TS]

  apps i can't remember that some of their names but you know like yeah it was like [TS]

  operator outfit with vizio that it will be there by descendant of the Syrian [TS]

  people yeah right yeah so you can do that but thats it thats that that [TS]

  doesn't that doesn't make it doesn't work like that you can't say go to [TS]

  launch an app and then do it it doesn't work like that has to be built into the [TS]

  system so the one outside the bounds though which would be interested in your [TS]

  thoughts on then is the facebook Messenger one facebook and it's called [TS]

  right so that Facebook obviously famously does not have a phone they run [TS]

  on you know other people's devices but they they do [TS]

  by most accounts have some of the foremost experts in AI working at [TS]

  facebook but they so like how do you square that like where do you think that [TS]

  they where does that come into play because you think like they're they're [TS]

  going after AI they think they're going to be a leader in whatever comes of AI [TS]

  and certainly these assistant things are are a big part of that at least right [TS]

  now and Facebook am is is sort of one of the frontrunners right now for that but [TS]

  they don't have the system-level integration haha it's a good question on [TS]

  it could just be you know to it you know to do the AI while you're in there apps [TS]

  like and Facebook's advantage is and i say this is someone who doesn't use [TS]

  facebook but people you know it's part of what makes them so valuable is that [TS]

  you know two people spend out now I'll awful lot of people spend an awful lot [TS]

  of time in facebook so they already have them there so they they're they're [TS]

  almost are they almost are like the run system [TS]

  yeah that's true that if you're already there [TS]

  you're in the area book on your phone or you know well from I think the phone is [TS]

  probably number one now so you're in facebook you're on your phone any kind [TS]

  of AI features that they can offer you it you're already there so yeah it for [TS]

  that or that's it [TS]

  the opportunity good way to frame and I think it's almost like so the browser on [TS]

  a on a pc or [TS]

  Mac is not you know sort of politics while they are baked into the system it [TS]

  is a separate application that you're running all the time everyone's always [TS]

  running a browser right and that like facebook on the phone [TS]

  yep is sort of the bracket that's been said before of course but it is in that [TS]

  context like animating the same thing they even helpfully cheat and use the [TS]

  audio api to make sure they're literally running on your phone all the time it's [TS]

  different i keed i keed likely that brings to mind another one of the topics [TS]

  in this space that I want to talk about and I've seen an awful lot of people [TS]

  bring this up so one of the other rumors it's separate from the information [TS]

  report but there's also a rumor that has come out [TS]

  I know macrumors had it i don't know if it was their original i think it was [TS]

  think it was their original scoop that the next version of mac OS is going to [TS]

  have Siri built-in yes and a lot of people read that and the question i got [TS]

  is why do I have to talk to Siri why can't i just type like spotlight and [TS]

  then therefore what we maybe that's the answer may be that spotlight feature [TS]

  goes away and it's replaced by Cirie and you can either talk to it or type [TS]

  yeah that's a good that's a good question i think that that you know [TS]

  thinking about it for a few seconds just how i think that that's probably the way [TS]

  they should do it I i think it's a little weird like court they've [TS]

  microsoft is is done this to with Cortana I get a little weird to have [TS]

  those things on the desktop in this ain't trying to fit them into the same [TS]

  context as they exist right now on mobile devices because you just use a [TS]

  desktop and laptop whatever traditional computer differently and you're right [TS]

  like a lot of it is text-based input it's not vocal which sort of ties back [TS]

  to the whole thing of why I also think alexis is important because there is no [TS]

  way to interface that besides voice but you know that's that there's a different [TS]

  route to go down but uh but yes so I think that Siri is a text-based thing is [TS]

  interesting and that's also like going to facebook em right now it is mainly [TS]

  texts all chat based alright like you [TS]

  key so they're doing it the opposite way of what Cirie and alexa and Cortana and [TS]

  the google thing I guess is a hybrid right because you can talk to it or it [TS]

  can just be I mean the main interfaces like to say okay google and then it a [TS]

  bit it loads basically it's doing a search query so that's I guess the [TS]

  closest thing to that and that would be apple if they did do serie for mac OS [TS]

  doing it with the text thing would be I guess most comparable to that maybe want [TS]

  you know there's a trick that I just learned recently i didn't know this but [TS]

  if you do invoke Siri on your iPhone and she hears you wrong you can on that [TS]

  result screen you pull down on it and to end it shows you what Siri thought you [TS]

  said and done if you tap on that you can edit that text / really i didn't know [TS]

  that I I didn't know it either i just learned it in the last week or two from [TS]

  someone on Twitter in the midst of talking about all of this i think it was [TS]

  enough in the context of that discussion of why can't you just enter text and [TS]

  another is why can't you invoke Cirie and then pull down or something to bring [TS]

  up a text field and just type your query to Syria because there are there are [TS]

  certain contexts where you can't write what if you're in a quiet area yeah [TS]

  right [TS]

  huh yeah I had no idea about that so you can edit text after you've made your [TS]

  vocal query to Siri you can edit it as decks but you can't just type it as test [TS]

  there's no that's so you should if you want to use that feature you just speak [TS]

  gibberish to Siri and then just whisper some quick to brush to invoke the Texas [TS]

  mode anyway interesting trick I thought yeah then there was there the report I [TS]

  think it was not it was German right saying that there that there was an [TS]

  error maybe was a ripoff of another report or something but i know that [TS]

  9to5 mac wrote about it that the new macbook pro conceivably coming out at [TS]

  the end of the year would have the dislike OLEDs uh [TS]

  strip and you know one of the reasons why that might make sense is because [TS]

  then you could have a serious button without having to have like a physical [TS]

  serie button [TS]

  mm ah yeah i saw that rumor and I don't know what to make of it it seems kind of [TS]

  interesting it seems like it maybe it's also sort of like that i don't remember [TS]

  if it was a Kickstarter i think i might have been before Kickstarter but you [TS]

  remember you're a couple years ago there was somebody was trying to make a [TS]

  keyboard [TS]

  yes I yeah I know what this is that led keyboard thing [TS]

  yeah and it was yeah the idea was that each key was a physical keyboard and [TS]

  brush key would be a standalone LED and so like in the quote unquote normal mode [TS]

  it would be you know [TS]

  qwerty you know and everybody alphabetic and have numbers but then like when [TS]

  you're using Photoshop the key caps could change to all of the weird [TS]

  shortcuts so you know you could you know it the H key would change to you know [TS]

  whatever h dozen in Photoshop right well game like a game could change all of the [TS]

  buttons to you know different weapons or something like that [TS]

  yeah and it's sort of uh I guess similar to on iOS when you have that the virtual [TS]

  thing on top of the keyboard right where it suggests stuff and cervix can sort of [TS]

  dynamically do different things right so that that that led keyboard never really [TS]

  who never came to be realistic project but it certainly got people excited I [TS]

  could see how this led touchscreen in place of the function keys could work [TS]

  like that so that yeah and it gets too [TS]

  it's like a little bit like the mac keyboard getting a little taste of that [TS]

  that spiel that Steve Jobs gave at the original iphone introduction about what [TS]

  to do about the buttons on a phone because once you put them there there's [TS]

  nothing else you know they're set and if you come around a new idea later you you [TS]

  know that you'd like to have a different button but he doing he goes well the [TS]

  answer is you know we've solved this years ago with the graphical user [TS]

  interface the answer is doing software [TS]

  so I can kind of see that and quite frankly the idea of f1 f2 f3 keys even [TS]

  get it it's just fiddly and I know apples you know started printing [TS]

  hard-coded printing you know like this is volume up this is volume down this is [TS]

  bryce around and that you know by default that's what those keys do now [TS]

  you have to actually trigger like a system-wide preference to turn them into [TS]

  regular conservatories her right and i think most kids would have no I'd like [TS]

  f1 that what i wanted have no idea [TS]

  yeah my son if I if I I i should do it when he gets home from school i should [TS]

  actually see ya [TS]

  could you hit f1 key what do you mean the brightness down key with which you [TS]

  know any Latin you know that in the i remember when i still have the extended [TS]

  keyboard in front of me but the Apple extended keyboard you know the big tank [TS]

  keyboard that i use it shipped with like a strip that went around the function [TS]

  keys like no I yeah it was like a I don't know what you would call it like a [TS]

  like a stencil almost that would surround the function keys [TS]

  oh yeah okay different pro apps would call my quarkxpress came with with the [TS]

  yeah yeah i actually remember that at IBM pcs they had a similar thing with [TS]

  that yeah when they sold the big the big Keys the big push down key right [TS]

  yeah on by default f1 I think it was just like I think it was just like ZX cv [TS]

  so f1 was undo f2 was cut f3 was copying a for was paced but this is david this [TS]

  is ancient Apple history this is like stuff that worked in like nineteen [TS]

  ninety-one that's really funny though because that's like you know talking [TS]

  about this this virtual old LED strip that is like the original version of [TS]

  their I like software that would ship an actual physical print out that you would [TS]

  overlay you know haha around the keys to have to change their functions to know [TS]

  what their function would be yeah so I you know it i think this is ideas sounds [TS]

  to me like you know hey this sounds like a really good idea because then instead [TS]

  of having these hard-coded things that you know you could make that whole area [TS]

  flexible you know [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  yeah then software updates when they keep updating mac OS and adding new [TS]

  things they don't have to ship a new keyboard all of a sudden now Mac OS [TS]

  flows off the tongue like I really like this is my favorite i'm really excited [TS]

  about them renaming it Mac OS I like it better so that better they still going [TS]

  to do [TS]

  they're so committed the california thing is that the latest you know like I [TS]

  don't know I wouldn't wait Mac OS you know the Hollywood or do whatever I [TS]

  think so i think that they're committed to the California think they've only [TS]

  done it for 22 years writers to order to have it today 23 the 103 because there [TS]

  was married yeah yeah that's right [TS]

  Mavericks first yeah I don't like I think they're committed to the [TS]

  california thing and I think that I think you know but it's just going to be [TS]

  mac OS you know Hollywood yeah well i'll be glad to be done with the 10 elements [TS]

  of it because it was you know we're at ten . 11 . five now [TS]

  it always bothered me all along I and I've never been a fan of the name Mac [TS]

  os10 and I was less of a fan when they officially changed it to OS 10 without [TS]

  the mac alright really never never a fan of that name just because well number [TS]

  one I don't like Roman numerals i just wrote about this it is a drone [TS]

  I just hate them they're the they're absolutely terrible [TS]

  there's arguments to be made that I so I mean I'm not being facetious here there [TS]

  are I've seen arguments that that they're stupid numeral system made the [TS]

  Roman so in cat in a bad at math that led to the decline of the Roman Empire [TS]

  because they felt people who used a logical decimal you know system of [TS]

  indicating numerals that made math easier i hate i just don't like Roman [TS]

  numerals [TS]

  i hate the way that it's you know this doesn't seem to be as big a problem [TS]

  anymore but I hated in the early years the people who said Mac OS X 0 it [TS]

  happens all the time but yeah it's not their problem [TS]

  it's albums problem because it looks like mac OS x because guess what normal [TS]

  people today don't speak in Roman [TS]

  girls if you show them in X they say that's an ex they don't say oh but [TS]

  that's a ten and then as time went on it was as though I mean what's 2016 so 15 [TS]

  years of updates to to the operating system in their numbering system it's [TS]

  like they've all been minor little feature upgrades right for favorite [TS]

  years right so i think i read they uh I don't know if you talked about this i've [TS]

  read that somewhere so you know they dominated super bowl 50 this past year [TS]

  they did super bowl 50 rather than Super Bowl L or whatever but next year they're [TS]

  going back to the Roman numerals so it's like Li I think yourself something like [TS]

  that they are at it I I it makes me want to scream because i was so happy I was [TS]

  like you know what that's why I'm so happy because I thought that's brilliant [TS]

  50 is a the the nicest round this number they're going to get to until a hundred [TS]

  grand [TS]

  now they gave this is the way they get out of the mess they've created for [TS]

  themselves with these Roman numerals you know what else screws me up with the [TS]

  roman numeral Star Wars i'm so confused over but however yet the the movie star [TS]

  i really i really am once they got to the prequels like four five and six I [TS]

  understood that there's you know three but now I'm like what the hell is this [TS]

  episode 8 how what how you did it already and it's like yeah just I really [TS]

  i don't like the Roman numerals and star wars but there's no they can't get out [TS]

  of it they've already already into it the NFL could get out of it with the [TS]

  superbowl they did get out of it with 50 and it now they're going back now [TS]

  they're going back [TS]

  el super oli we throw lye that's great i'll just like I did not like it but I [TS]

  used to be amused by like it a like old-time hollywood movies used too often [TS]

  put like the copyright in $YEAR in roman numerals [TS]

  oh it don't they still do that i'm pretty sure some movies still do so at [TS]

  the very end I'm one of those people who stays through the credits the annoying [TS]

  person is through the entire credits even though I'm not reading everything I [TS]

  just sort of like it is the time to you know think about what I just watched or [TS]

  whatever and so I always stay through the end and especially now with all the [TS]

  Marvel stuff where you have to state [TS]

  the end but at the end when they do the last credit thing it's like the whatever [TS]

  it is I don't know if it's mpa or whoever gives that gets the last sort of [TS]

  screen and they do the number of what actual movie it is like how many movies [TS]

  have actually yeah and it's still in roman numerals i'm pretty sure because i [TS]

  know that because they just passed some milestone should look it up but matter [TS]

  even know what I would google for but they just had some major milestone and [TS]

  so it's now like shorter because you know it's past like five thousand [TS]

  whatever the 50,000 or something like that maybe it used to be though and [TS]

  maybe it's not now maybe I'm remembering it slightly wrong and I know that they [TS]

  used to do it like what you're what you're suggesting is like yeah the year [TS]

  and everything would be Roman numeral right and now i think this movie credit [TS]

  system at the very end it may have switched back over to actual numbers [TS]

  because it just got to unwieldly but I'm not a hundred venture don't remember [TS]

  i'll look it up [TS]

  we'll look it up after the show ID is one answer i don't have this definitive [TS]

  my google one that's all I have time for to do live in the show but there's a BBC [TS]

  article that says perhaps one of the most notable areas where people are [TS]

  likely to come across the minerals and TV and film credits for the convention [TS]

  is not to spell out what your something was made the practice is believed to [TS]

  have started in an attempt to disguise the age of films or television programs [TS]

  huh in other words it's the opposite of claiming an undeserved antiquity they're [TS]

  not trying to look old [TS]

  they are trying to look like they're still young [TS]

  because nobody can tell here's an example here's 1998 in roman numerals [TS]

  mcmxc VII I crazy yes [TS]

  yeah I see the ice I think I see the same thing now this one stack exchange [TS]

  talking it out [TS]

  yeah copyright time order studios MC a right that's exactly i've already got it [TS]

  in the show notes i'll put it there folks you can listen just check out the [TS]

  show notes there that's what it is that i think i was conflating the two things [TS]

  that is where they use the Roman numerals the movie number is I think [TS]

  just a number [TS]

  no yeah okay there we go . but that's where there [TS]

  what the hell are we talking about how did how did we get from the keyboard [TS]

  with an oled strip to Roman numerals smack ohh smack ohh Oh Mac os10 right [TS]

  yeah I get out of the 10 [TS]

  yeah they're going I wonder would now although I wonder maybe they would like [TS]

  if I don't think you would have to have the new keyboard to use Siri on the mac [TS]

  but maybe they would do the little you know the animation for Siri the [TS]

  horizontal thing because it's such a horizontal animation maybe oh yeah but [TS]

  we do love strip will turn into the waveform yeah i would be pretty yeah [TS]

  the other thing with government report though is that and and it's a little [TS]

  disappointing because I was kinda hoping maybe new macbook pros would come out at [TS]

  WTC but he's he's his report it put it later this year like a fall thing right [TS]

  and there was some little nugget I think and I think that was based on what's the [TS]

  one the one who is it is it k ji or whatever they are pretty good tracker [TS]

  and being right about those things i think was ripping off of that but also [TS]

  talking about the fact that there's there's some potential for a 13-inch [TS]

  macbook not a pro so there would be like the two Pro models and then we already [TS]

  have now the 12-inch you know retina MacBook and now there might be a 13-inch [TS]

  it said that in there and which I was confused by like why would they do it 12 [TS]

  and a 13 inch yeah that seems wrong to me it seems to me like this they made [TS]

  that the whole reason they made the 12-inch in the first place was to split [TS]

  the difference between 13 all right right and so yeah I don't know that [TS]

  maybe it's something got lost in translation there [TS]

  yeah or they're going to switch to 13 I don't know it doesn't make sense to have [TS]

  12 and 13 they don't seem different enough to just provide both of them [TS]

  existing and what that mean like you could see where they made where they [TS]

  would make a bigger one to in order to put like a second port everyone [TS]

  complained of course about the one USBC port but then with a 2-14 let you know [TS]

  or 15 [TS]

  I just I just think that they have to be different enough that just at a glance [TS]

  at the on the table in the apple store you can say oh that one's big this one [TS]

  small you really can i get asked to be if you're gonna have three it has to be [TS]

  like rare medium and well done you can't even have like a medium a medium rare in [TS]

  there it's you know it's too hard to tell apart and that report also [TS]

  mentioned that they're likely keeping the macbook air around it will just be [TS]

  sort of the cheaper at you know the low of the rare version I your analogy that [TS]

  the cheaper low-end version of what you get for maximum presumably still no [TS]

  Retina screen i guess yeah i think that the the writing is on the wall I and I [TS]

  know that this this is to me is it I get it all the time and there's I know [TS]

  there's so many people i'm going to make you angry if you're one of these people [TS]

  listening I'm telling you right now stop holding your breath for a retina macbook [TS]

  air and it's just not gonna happen and I i know i get emails all the time this is [TS]

  what people are a lot of people want they want exactly what the macbook air [TS]

  is right now [TS]

  yeah with a rabbit and and when they're when they're asking for that is it [TS]

  specifically that they want it like the way the certain type of power adapter [TS]

  and the you at the old older school USB ports rather than because you know the [TS]

  the new macbook is very similar to what a macbook air is except for the ports [TS]

  right eye and the power you know this performance because I lower it is it [TS]

  still sits still slow right okay care and i refreshed MacBook Air if it were [TS]

  to come but it's not i don't think would be faster still like but like the [TS]

  macbook area and go buy today is faster than the macbook and so like if you push [TS]

  your machine a little bit if you're like you know like me you know 50 browser [TS]

  tabs or if you're using Xcode or something like that you know [TS]

  photo editing you want it but no died i think it's very clear looking at the [TS]

  products that Apple's come out with recently what they're doing the the [TS]

  macbook the new one the macbook one will get fast [TS]

  overtime right and it will eventually be like in two years that won't be an issue [TS]

  like right things that right and it wasn't worth it for Apple to put spend [TS]

  money to make a retina macbook air when these things are just going to collide [TS]

  into your eyes and the the on the other end the macbook pros are getting thinner [TS]

  like that's but another part of this rumor with the oled screen is that the [TS]

  macbook even though they you know got so much thinner couple years ago when they [TS]

  went to the mall you know you can't get a spinning hard drive anymore [TS]

  everything's SSD but it's going to get dinner still because that's what Apple [TS]

  does they take products and make them thinner so the macbook pros at the more [TS]

  expensive side and and if performance is important to you are going to get ever [TS]

  more air like in their form factor and the macbook is going to get faster and I [TS]

  and apples bet is that your need for ports is going to decrease over time [TS]

  right [TS]

  and so the macbook air even though if they were to come out with a retina [TS]

  macbook air today it would sell myself very well it's it's a dead end I think [TS]

  in Apple's mind in terms of the differentiation of the product line that [TS]

  it's not it would be to its to conflated with the other products to easily mixed [TS]

  up right and so right now the only reason the macbook airs exist is to hit [TS]

  the 899 and 999 price points right now assume that's a lot of what they're [TS]

  selling to like schools right that's there is that also their school sort of [TS]

  how I feel like I would I would be I would be anybody I would be surprised if [TS]

  schools were buying anything other than the macbook airs because the way they [TS]

  don't have money and be they just don't you know schools you know they're just [TS]

  not going to value something like retina right you know too bad kids even know [TS]

  kids have the sharpest eyes and the most likely to be able to see the fuzzy [TS]

  pixels [TS]

  well justjust wait give them time two years kids two years so i don't know i [TS]

  wonder if we're going to see any hardware WTC now but on the other hand [TS]

  we haven't had new mac hardware and forever except for the updated MacBook [TS]

  one which was you know just a speed bump [TS]

  yeah i mean the only hardware if those reports are true and maybe it won't even [TS]

  be released that would be the thing we're just talking about that user right [TS]

  Cirie help thing but yeah they usually don't do with it [TS]

  they they haven't done Mac hardware in awhile right because they announced the [TS]

  new OS and then they will wait to shade the updated 5k imac last year with the [TS]

  the new high gamut screen [TS]

  oh that's right ok yeah by the way when are they gonna launch a display the [TS]

  external display with retina like why have they not done that yet [TS]

  that's a fantastic question i think that this is something that I because i have [TS]

  the 5k imac yeah I have the old the first one though not that I gamma 1 so [TS]

  you know play a little sad violin song for me [TS]

  yes I i know that the ATP guys have gone on about this in detail and I because i [TS]

  don't have a mac pro I don't care enough to figure it out but there's some kind [TS]

  of thing where Thunderbolt [TS]

  oh right the throughput is not their situation and the only way that Apple [TS]

  made it work internally in the 5k imac was by creating your own thing so I [TS]

  think that's the problem but maybe down this one WTC is where the the the [TS]

  trashcan Darth Vader mac pro came out it is incredibly long overdue for an update [TS]

  and I know it's not like a best-seller but it at the WWDC developer crowd it [TS]

  actually is so maybe it would be a nice i haven't seen any rumors about it but [TS]

  just in terms of being overdue boy that would be a nice announcement that would [TS]

  play extremely I think we play extremely well in the room if they said we've [TS]

  updated the mac pro it is blows away the old Mac Pro Performance and you can hook [TS]

  up this 5k [TS]

  beautiful 5k display to it finally I'm actual finally arm and yeah i mean given [TS]

  apples dominance in both design and film and everything you know it's crazy that [TS]

  all these people can't use a screen that ties into all the rest of apple products [TS]

  that they're using for that right and again it's you know I'm spoiled but I [TS]

  mean I've gone all I guess my training with my last non-retina device was it [TS]

  was I guess it was when i upgraded to this 5k imac what like a year and a half [TS]

  ago but now I stop it [TS]

  everything is right now my son still has a non retina iPad that it is so I think [TS]

  it's like the only non retina device in the house and so really look like like [TS]

  an animal [TS]

  yeah and when I see the screen I'm like oh my god again look at those pixels [TS]

  were pretty big arm i still have I'm actually sitting in front of right now [TS]

  the don't last [TS]

  imac before it went right now it's so nice but yeah you can definitely see see [TS]

  the pixels that sticks out like a sore thumb [TS]

  yeah and it just seems crazy like you said it's just crazy that the the [TS]

  customers who are willing to spend ten dollar yeah one rack pro has no option [TS]

  to buy the dell whatever 4k whatever [TS]

  yeah alright alright let me take one last break here and thank our third and [TS]

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  that sell direct and this is they make mattresses right here in the US [TS]

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  the competition go to a mattress store go to your cool well you don't want to [TS]

  go to a mattress store but if you did you go in there and you find that could [TS]

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  mattress store and try to buy a top quality mattress 49 or 50 bucks and [TS]

  you're gonna walk out empty-handed [TS]

  it's easy and even if you don't completely trust in your like I'd I know [TS]

  that mattress stores are gross but I still want like the idea of sitting on [TS]

  it a little bit before I tried trying before i buy seems weird spent 900 bucks [TS]

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  fifty bucks off their already amazing prices so my thanks to Castleford [TS]

  continuing to sponsor the talkshow great company that's what I want to talk about [TS]

  the Peter tilting sure it's a it's literally what all of twitter is right [TS]

  now so I'm sure so anybody is listening is almost certainly heard and if you [TS]

  really daring fireball I've been obsessed with it for days [TS]

  ask summarize it thus uh there's an ongoing lawsuit where Hulk Hogan suit [TS]

  Gawker because a couple years ago Gawker obtained a sex tape which the backstory [TS]

  on that is all crazy to help anybody the love sponge [TS]

  yes and I make it up that does not made up that somehow two toilets convinced [TS]

  Hulk Hogan to have sex with the guy's wife and he's like totally into it and [TS]

  the guide surreptitiously taped the counter and then anyway daughter ran it [TS]

  and a few list later Hulk Hogan sued and won an enormous judgment hundred and [TS]

  forty million dollars in the state of Florida against gawker which is [TS]

  apparently would and that's not surprising that would bankrupt the [TS]

  company there's an expectation among experts that that on appeal the doctor [TS]

  is going to get that greatly reduced maybe even overturned that doctors you [TS]

  know chances are very good that it was tried in a place that was very amenable [TS]

  to Hogan but you never know and it's never good news to lose the first one so [TS]

  you know cars and roads and it turns out this week it came out that like one day [TS]

  it started with speculation that Nick Denton the the founder and owner of [TS]

  soccer publicly came out speculating that Hogan's lawsuit was funded by stu [TS]

  somebody and he thought maybe like a some billionaire in Silicon Valley I [TS]

  don't know if denton actually had teal in mind at the time I suspect he might [TS]

  have because how many billionaires speculation again amongst people with no [TS]

  has no inside information but that this is vicki was very likely if if this was [TS]

  the case then there was a big if like it seems outrageous that that would [TS]

  actually be the situation that it would likely be Peter tell being the most [TS]

  likely candidate to to be the one right because there's a known grudges between [TS]

  get to because in 2007 rockers Valleywag property ran a story saying [TS]

  that yes Peter teal is gay which you know was interpreted by many as outing [TS]

  I think there's a very good case that they that that's what it was but [TS]

  Valleywag has soccer have always stood behind this argument that it was an open [TS]

  secret everybody in New it just wasn't ever printed anywhere and that it's you [TS]

  know I don't want to get into the politics of it but that it's the fact [TS]

  that we don't talk about it is is sort of a like bigotry against gays because [TS]

  it's pot its positioning homosexuality is something that you would want to hide [TS]

  where it's not which I personally I'm a medical to bed anyway that's just to get [TS]

  out of the way though that you know it's well-known I think it's even on the [TS]

  record that pier to was not happy with that story and their friend I think he [TS]

  he likened a family wag to al-qaeda yes yes I literally an editorial that's [TS]

  really was this comparison it's not like hyperbole like you're exaggerating that [TS]

  was that was what he said right yeah they say he's been known to have taken [TS]

  issue with new Mirada even stories not with him but with other people who he [TS]

  knows that he knows other people who you know to conquer websites have run [TS]

  stories about that he find you no objectionable [TS]

  so it turns out that it's and now he's disappeared tell as has gone on the [TS]

  record with the New York Times and and and admitted yes i bankrolled Hogan's [TS]

  lawsuit to the tune of 10 million dollars it's just crazy like just [TS]

  getting really is just like it you'd like something from did you put on a TV [TS]

  show right our movie you know that it's like a crazy game of thrones plot twist [TS]

  it's something that's like so outlandish that it seemed like because I guess [TS]

  there were rumors about this going around during the trial itself right [TS]

  that someone was out there bankrolling this and what everyone dismissed it [TS]

  you know reading about this in hindsight everyone seemed to dismiss it because it [TS]

  was so outlandish right and then Dennis says his thing and it still seems [TS]

  outlandish but there's like this but if it were to be anyone and then like [TS]

  Forbes somehow is able to find people [TS]

  who would speak you know off the record sir on background I guess I'm on it and [TS]

  then next thing we know we have a deal [TS]

  talking to andrew ross sorkin of New York Times directly about it within like [TS]

  a two day span or whatever right and that the move during the trial that [TS]

  raise people's eyebrows and started the speculation was that the Hogan legal [TS]

  team dropped a charge that if they had one would have been covered by cockers [TS]

  insurance and rockers insurance would this whatever that doesn't really matter [TS]

  which 1i was you know what the legal terms but there was one of the charges [TS]

  and it seemed really curious to people that they would do that because the [TS]

  insurance company whose butt is way more likely to be able to pay the full amount [TS]

  of a large judgment then Gawker is andro and suggests it's not about the money [TS]

  right that it wasn't it was a move that totally seem counter to maximizing the [TS]

  money that Hogan would win and instead it seems specifically about trying to [TS]

  put talk her out of business [TS]

  yeah and that so the most the most compelling and at compelling some weird [TS]

  word to use that was interesting thing about this whole thing to me is like the [TS]

  amount of time that has passed from when the situation happened that that you [TS]

  talked about with the the story on Valley wag you know outing or reveal an [TS]

  outage get whatever revealing that yet right Peter tales gay to to the masses [TS]

  let's say and now it's like did you know that's what I don't know exactly how [TS]

  long it's been but it's like eight years nine years something like that yeah i [TS]

  think it was 9 years and it was a 2007 story and i think i could be wrong by a [TS]

  year but the story I've heard is that at some point in 2006 supposedly teal had [TS]

  warned Valleywag do not write about my personal life or I'll you know or you [TS]

  make an enemy of me you know i don't threaten somebody it did but privately [TS]

  had said I don't do this or out you know [TS]

  alright what I can [TS]

  and it 2007 i think is when the story ran but it's been about roughly ten [TS]

  years and obviously most threats made in those veins and that being hollow or you [TS]

  know sort of like just things get forgotten over time and everybody moves [TS]

  on time heals all wounds but the right not this but not here and like the fact [TS]

  that this has been going on behind the scenes all these years later is just [TS]

  incredible I mean I again it's like a weird thing just it's like impressive in [TS]

  a weird way that someone is so determined to a right what they view as [TS]

  this wrong that they've held onto it this long and like just figured out an [TS]

  avenue to actually be able to execute it [TS]

  alright i will link to it in the show notes I've already linked to an enduring [TS]

  fireball but Felix Salmon writing infusion had a at [TS]

  fireball but Felix Salmon writing infusion had a at [TS]

  great analysis of of just that the depths of the evil genius of seals the [TS]

  revenge that you know just going through step-by-step in just a how long he [TS]

  waited and be that that that the way that libel laws work and typically it's [TS]

  you know details not the first super rich person to sue a publication over [TS]

  negative publicity I mean Donald Trump has done in many times I mean all sorts [TS]

  of people do it but the way it typically works in the way everybody common-sense [TS]

  things that works is if I'm a rich guy and I don't like what your publication [TS]

  wrote about me I sue you about what you wrote about me and you know and the [TS]

  problem with that is that you have to prove that it was false or that you know [TS]

  that is slander or whatever around very very hard and as salmon has pointed out [TS]

  so newspapers at you know just like the new york times are you know any major [TS]

  publication at you know when they write about a rich person in a way that a this [TS]

  is going to be controversial they're not going to like this they have legal team [TS]

  that vets every sentence in this story before it goes out specifically of can [TS]

  we defend this in court can we defend you know every single thing can we [TS]

  defend this in court and so it's not just going through an editorial process [TS]

  that goes through a legal process before it goes out and therefore it makes it [TS]

  very hard for them [TS]

  did the rich person who wants to sue a publication out of existence to win so [TS]

  teals strategy was not to sue Walker over what they wrote about him but was [TS]

  rather to put together a legal team to just go through everything [TS]

  soccer has done for 10 years and look for something that they did that is [TS]

  legally questionable and they struck gold with the Hogan sex tape right and [TS]

  there's you know I think it's actually even while we've been on this this this [TS]

  call recording the show I think they've already been sort of other things [TS]

  leaking out because the room of course is also that they've been looking for [TS]

  other avenues to execute a lawsuit over the years and maybe they have even but [TS]

  no one realized it at the time and I think some of that stuff is starting to [TS]

  come out now it's just breaking so fast it's so crazy and I will you know I [TS]

  there's so many like butts and this story is so widespread [TS]

  and what is I can I don't you know what I've written about on during fire but [TS]

  it's hard to like cover all of these avenues but I'll even say right up front [TS]

  that I don't know a couple of simple what do you think you know decision just [TS]

  be about whether Hogan had a good case or not and it doesn't ever you know [TS]

  wasn't he actually you know what they did a violation of privacy [TS]

  I'm very very I i certainly would never run a sex tape taken surreptitiously by [TS]

  someone else or publisher spread I mean I think it's did honestly I think it's a [TS]

  despicable move just personally I just as it as a human being I mean and so i'm [TS]

  not i'm not even opposed to Hogan having won the suit I don't think soccer ever [TS]

  should have run it the doctors media have done published numerous things over [TS]

  the years that I object to for multiple grounds notably of course the iphone [TS]

  right that's the stories i right was got was this moto right under Gawker right [TS]

  yeah yeah so so I right way in a way that the heart of part of the genius of [TS]

  teal strategy is that he found a case where the people who might otherwise [TS]

  object to the idea of a billionaire secretly funding lawsuit to sue a [TS]

  company out of existence might be a little bit more likely to to say well [TS]

  these are you know these these are bad people that you know this [TS]

  that's not right that they that they took us a certain dishes sex tape and [TS]

  and published it right [TS]

  I stop sex tapes you cum sex tapes i know it wasn't probably wasn't on tape [TS]

  but what else would you call it was all because it's not at eight right it's not [TS]

  right but seems like the term is sex tape [TS]

  yeah it's like the verbal equivalent of the floppy disk for save like we just [TS]

  don't have it right is sex . mov . i don't know I sex-gif yeah x.x get uh so [TS]

  I read I you know and leading up to this i read a few different of the tapes so [TS]

  first of all it like we joked about that all Twitter talk about this like this is [TS]

  in my mind we talked about Twitter earlier is like being you know started [TS]

  like this this fascinating site guy stuff what's happening in my view when [TS]

  something like this happens this makes Twitter almost unbearable simply because [TS]

  everyone is talking about the same thing and there's no way to follow like a like [TS]

  a common thread it's like there's so many different angles and so much [TS]

  information coming in so many opinions that it's like a hodgepodge of [TS]

  everything and I can imagine a regular user after signing up for Twitter say [TS]

  they sign up for twitter yesterday and they got like recommended you know [TS]

  they're interested in the news or something and so they got recommended [TS]

  you like 15 accounts to follow that our journalists and so to help today [TS]

  just imagine what their experience would be like looking at Twitter for the first [TS]

  time it's just like I don't even know how to work to begin like doing what [TS]

  just shut it down like this is this is dreadful these people talking about each [TS]

  other and talking about like no you're wrong and arguing and so with that with [TS]

  that backstory I'm they try to avoid as much as possible of it until there was [TS]

  actually like more actual news of what would what occurred and whatnot it seems [TS]

  like this morning there was some of that we talked about the air and a certain [TS]

  post with a with teal and then there's been there's been some more interesting [TS]

  of the hot takes i would say and so I read yours of course which I like [TS]

  because it was concise and didn't you know sort of a lot of the problems I [TS]

  have with the things of this nature are like this is obviously going after at [TS]

  least the way that journalists perceive it going after the heart of what [TS]

  journalism isn't trying to destroy sort of the institution right and so we get [TS]

  these thought pieces that are going to be five thousand words and just like [TS]

  going on and on and most of them saying sort of the same things you're saying [TS]

  that's slightly different ways and it's just like I it again it's impenetrable [TS]

  too hard to know where to begin with this so I appreciate the concise nature [TS]

  of your your take on this right and average I wasn't trying to capture the [TS]

  whole thing is i think it's too hard to capture the whole thing you know but [TS]

  right just one particular like to me it's the [TS]

  and I appreciate your kind words about it but it's you know it was just the [TS]

  respond to this whole argument of whether anybody's trying to take away [TS]

  Peter tales freedom of speech and it's like you know it was like this [TS]

  libertarian take on it which you know sort of a a pro survive using their [TS]

  super richness to their own advantage and and the idea that anybody who [TS]

  objects to that or find it takes offense at it is therefore trying to suppress it [TS]

  which is not the case like the the article that the guy link to buy josh [TS]

  marshall he wasn't Josh Marshall at talking points maybe it wasn't [TS]

  advocating hey we should pass a law to make this illegal we should you know [TS]

  prevent this he was just saying this is bad news for journalism right well [TS]

  because it's revealed to revealed away to anybody else who has sufficient funds [TS]

  to bankroll such things a way to do the same thing against any other publication [TS]

  they don't like right but so part of that is like this is existed for a long [TS]

  time to be able to do this this whole thing isn't new but its its new i guess [TS]

  in this context and and people's eyes are opening to it for the first time [TS]

  because what you know what [TS]

  teal did is not illegal this is you know this is an avenue that that others have [TS]

  used just maybe not in this direct way before or maybe they haven't we just [TS]

  don't know about it but what I liked about what you wrote [TS]

  we're and maybe a it correct me if i missed representing in some ways but [TS]

  this is sort of my stance on it after you know one day of of thinking about it [TS]

  is so what teal did is not illegal [TS]

  whether you know you think it's unethical ER or sort of not i don't know [TS]

  that there's so many words used to describe it but anyway it's not illegal [TS]

  and arm it's also of course not illegal for then to suggest that someone is [TS]

  doing this and that is not illegal for Forbes to look into it and get sources [TS]

  saying that [TS]

  yeah it's it's the sky and then it's not illegal for teal then to go and talk to [TS]

  new york times and you know reveal sort of what he's doing why he did it and now [TS]

  apparently Denton's working on a rebuttal post about this and it [TS]

  like at the end of the day this I understand why everyone's up in arms of [TS]

  this of course but the situation does sort of sort itself out and I think if [TS]

  Gawker went out of business which is a real possibility my thought there is but [TS]

  like a thousand other gawkers will just rise in its in its sort of place and you [TS]

  could say well then you know some billionaire might take out them to I [TS]

  have a hard time believing that you know there's there's honestly enough money in [TS]

  the world to sort of fight all these battles and it's not just money by the [TS]

  way it's time to that again going back to what the most interesting thing about [TS]

  this to me is like that peter thiel took the time and the the extended time [TS]

  period to actually execute this plan [TS]

  most people would not do that of course and most people just don't have the time [TS]

  that it's not worth their time to do it and so I sort of is is sort of lame as [TS]

  it sounds I think like this thing sorts itself out naturally [TS]

  yeah i think especially as it settles in as you know 24-hour old news now I think [TS]

  that the fears that this will become a playbook for billionaires to take on [TS]

  other publications are I not just hopefully unfounded I think they're [TS]

  probably unfounded I think this was a unique situation both in terms of the [TS]

  the way that soccer opened themselves up to these sort of suits by being so I [TS]

  don't know what the word is reckless aggressive-aggressive fast and loose [TS]

  with what you know what sugar should not be published [TS]

  I I you know could somebody do this to me for example could somebody it it's [TS]

  like what if I written that you could really take me to court over you could [TS]

  definitely inconvenience me by just making me go to court and have to hire a [TS]

  lawyer to fight a bogus lawsuit but I don't you know I mean I don't know that [TS]

  why would I don't see why someone would do that cause the other part is that [TS]

  pier teal had such a group grievance against them [TS]

  right i mean is there somebody who I've called jackass of the week in the past [TS]

  who who would do this to me i don't know i don't think yeah but yeah but even if [TS]

  they would so you like you yeah you may have pissed off plenty of people i'm [TS]

  sure you have over the years but may have pissed off Peter T like calling him [TS]

  an asshole i don't know but i have you open yourself up to you know so you get [TS]

  that could open you up to you know like someone could try to see you directly [TS]

  for called for slander whatever our bible i always forget the difference i [TS]

  do to you but um but then [TS]

  could someone do this sort of surrogate lawsuits and you know actually go after [TS]

  you for something it seems almost impossible [TS]

  yes you're right i think part of it is that it's just it's just that nobody [TS]

  ever thought that anybody it just never occurred to someone to do this and it [TS]

  speaks to Till's I honest I mean again I called him an asshole and I stand by and [TS]

  I think that him doing it in secret was cowardly I think that it only came out [TS]

  now is you know it you know kind of a coward to move but it was genius right [TS]

  it was extremely clever and it's the sort of you know that's why he's the [TS]

  success that he is a big and it's you know it's a huge part of the whole [TS]

  Silicon Valley what are we looking for is we're looking for people who see [TS]

  things that nobody else sees and this is an example of that right it's he saw an [TS]

  opportunity here to do this in a way that it just never occurred to anybody [TS]

  else I think that's why this is so the grabbed everybody's attention [TS]

  well and so it just don't know almost to play devil's advocate a bit on this but [TS]

  like you know when you call him and an asshole for the way that he sort of [TS]

  executed it i mean what if maybe he executed it this way on purpose like he [TS]

  wanted to be in the shadows for all this time and then to have some sort of big [TS]

  reveal to make it that much more of a statement and make it that much more [TS]

  meaningful when it did come out this way yet and and and the aforementioned felix [TS]

  Salmon post definitely makes the case that [TS]

  he makes a compelling case that revealing himself was absolutely part of [TS]

  it part of the plan because what it does is it it it says this isn't now you [TS]

  realize that whatever happens with the Hogan appeal this isn't gonna stop and [TS]

  he can write keep this up indefinitely and everybody knows that everybody can [TS]

  just go through the back of her mind a list of things you know [TS]

  articles that Crocker has published over the years that maybe they could get sued [TS]

  over and it therefore means that any anybody who is perhaps thinking of [TS]

  investing in Gawker is going to think twice about it because it looks like if [TS]

  you're investing in gauger your and investing against Peter teal funding you [TS]

  know trying to bankrupt the company and they need the investment money because [TS]

  they need to have you know just to deal with the legal fees and and the [TS]

  potential judgment against Hogan right you know that revealing himself as part [TS]

  of it because now right right makes Cocker look like a way worse investment [TS]

  than it was you know Gawker if you're if anybody was thinking of investing in [TS]

  soccer two days ago it's certainly looking for a worse investment now that [TS]

  you know that they've made a lifelong enemy of Peter teal and that hand up if [TS]

  we set his sights on destroying the company [TS]

  unsurprisingly there are already reports of course now that that car trying to [TS]

  sell itself and you know it's being marked down way below what they you know [TS]

  where value that in just a few months ago [TS]

  yeah and that's going to make it very hard [TS]

  yeah i would just say i would say in terms of what i wrote that if it turns [TS]

  out that it's true that yields plan all along was to reveal himself at a certain [TS]

  strategic point for the purpose of even you know kicking them when they're down [TS]

  then it doesn't take away the asshole part of what i said takes away the [TS]

  coward part because he didn't have a plan to remain secret forever that we [TS]

  only secret strategically for the first part of this devilish revenge scheme [TS]

  yeah and I mean I will say I don't know Peter to little effect i am fairly [TS]

  certain I've actually never met him [TS]

  even though we sort of do the same thing now but uh you know I also just one of [TS]

  the things have trying to think about again a reaction to this in a 24-hour [TS]

  period [TS]

  I don't work [TS]

  call the whole situation with Valleywag when it happened those eight or nine [TS]

  years ago I mean I heard about it in it you know after the fact and I but i also [TS]

  have a hard time sort of discounting like well I understand that what that [TS]

  what Valley wags position was that it was sort of like publicly that he was he [TS]

  was known to be a game amongst a big enough circle that it should be sort of [TS]

  common knowledge like I don't know what his mindset what like he's he was [TS]

  clearly he's clearly very was very pissed off and very pissed off enough to [TS]

  do this whole plan like I I don't know that I want to say like is he wrong you [TS]

  know like a lot of people are saying that this is a major overblown thing [TS]

  that he's East he's just taking it so far out of proportion and the the [TS]

  responses not in proportion to what the the original Act was but like I don't [TS]

  know that I wasn't there like maybe he was like his mindset was just totally [TS]

  destroyed by what they did after he told them not to do it and you know so anyway [TS]

  I just don't want to like degrade that completely I don't know what his mindset [TS]

  is I i hear you as a devil's advocate take i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i-i disagree [TS]

  well I don't you should say disk because i don't know i only did you know I don't [TS]

  know Peter till either obviously right so that's possible and that's impossible [TS]

  you know that really was so significantly stressful to him [TS]

  emotionally harmful to him you know that maybe it it really isn't [TS]

  disproportionate but the one goofy that i have to say that he's a goofy part [TS]

  this is good i mean this is goofy is it is a heels description of this as the [TS]

  most philanthropic thing he's ever done [TS]

  how ya like that is is really that's gonna go down as one of the things like [TS]

  for people who are you know it thinking that the inequality is out of control [TS]

  and that the the Richard that's the hyper rich are are detached from reality [TS]

  is it [TS]

  I mean there's exhibit a is Peter to I mean whatever you think about this right [TS]

  there there there [TS]

  I'm fully acknowledging that there's a devil's advocate take on this that what [TS]

  he did is just prevent serve cold and interact was in some sense just I don't [TS]

  agree i think it's a vast over-reaction you know I go with the Nigerian [TS]

  Elizabeth Spears take ya idea that it's you know it's like a you know like if [TS]

  the United States attacked a small African country with the full weight of [TS]

  the Armed Services just for some small you know you know just proportionate [TS]

  reaction right um I'm on that side but i agree the devil's advocate take on that [TS]

  but even if you agree the devil's advocate take this is that this is not [TS]

  the philanthropy I don't know what did you read Ben Thompson's take two in his [TS]

  his newsletter today it was no yeah it was interesting because i won't go into [TS]

  it that I want it you can link to it but it's um like so I thought it was [TS]

  fascinating way to like frame it around the notion of like superheroes and [TS]

  supervillains and like he it's like what can one can these like superheroes exist [TS]

  without a I don't bungle this but it's basically uh that like in you know so [TS]

  say like the Marvel Cinematic Universe like what happens when the superheroes [TS]

  come is there's usually like this super you know fill-in thing that ends up [TS]

  coming [TS]

  it seems coincidentally but maybe it's not coincidental right maybe it's it's [TS]

  the result of the superhero coming or vice versa like the superhero comes [TS]

  because the supervillain is there and so they're intertwined right and it's um he [TS]

  draws the interesting analogy to this whole situation of of how this is going [TS]

  down which i think is that is is worth the read there is a certain amount of [TS]

  people have compared Ilan musk to a Bond villain but at elon musk doesn't seem [TS]

  that it doesn't i can't do anything he's done it makes him look like a jerk but [TS]

  this there is like a certain you know it a bond movies and other movies are [TS]

  always full of you know evil billionaires or you know even maybe [TS]

  evils too strong word but you know right [TS]

  there's billionaires bent on emailing even is [TS]

  you mean billionaires and this is here it is it in real life you know like this [TS]

  is incredible scheme that nobody would have nobody really it perceived as [TS]

  possible like and went like you said before like when it came up in trial [TS]

  interviews Yeah Yeah come on that's this isn't a Marvel movie [TS]

  yeah uh but and then the other element to this like going back to where we [TS]

  started sort of like with the whole twitter and it's just like oh my god [TS]

  this is this is going to go on for a while I mean you know like you said you [TS]

  know 24 hours sort of things died down but then there's more and more just [TS]

  keeps coming and this is like the perfect storm you know coming as someone [TS]

  who comes from the reporter side and now sort of you know far enough removed from [TS]

  its is sort of hopefully be somewhat a circumspect about it [TS]

  this is like the perfect storm of story that's not going to die anytime soon [TS]

  because this is what i many not all but many reporters love writing about more [TS]

  than anything else is their own profession and like yeah you know things [TS]

  coming after it and the potential to first for the end of what they do and [TS]

  incoming after potentially their livelihood and stuff and so this is just [TS]

  the perfect storm for twitter for media Twitter and it's going to be nonstop [TS]

  stories about this for a long time to come it seems like yeah that to meet its [TS]

  is it [TS]

  I can't it's almost hard to conceive of a better story for media Twitter yeah [TS]

  yeah I don't know anything else you want to talk about it now that's were pretty [TS]

  much wraps up my list so people can find your writing [TS]

  where were you doing with your writing these days so almost always now on on [TS]

  medium I set up one of the publications are mediums course again one of the GV [TS]

  investments but down [TS]

  I just like before we invested in it I was a huge fan of the simplicity of the [TS]

  platform and the CMS elements of having used many other CMS throughout the years [TS]

  which our hodgepodge [TS]

  of things so most the writing i do now i bought a domain called 500 ish which was [TS]

  nice and short and I try to keep the writing short these days since i don't [TS]

  have a ton of time to do it as much as I used to so that's why I'm 500 ish . calm [TS]

  down on and on that on the Twitter mg Siegler at m GC right that's right [TS]

  that's right all right [TS]

  my thanks to you for your time and and your your observations i would also like [TS]

  to give one more [TS]

  thanks to our sponsors are Casper go buy a mattress audible go buy some [TS]

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