The Talk Show

157: ‘A Nokia Phone and Some Pills (WWDC Prelude)’, With Special Guest Dan Frommer


  I like it over there it's awesome it's great it's a it's fun i mean is it's [TS]

  it's hard but it's been really good [TS]

  well this is a busy time for you guys because it's it's like a busy time of [TS]

  the year . because it's like May and June is like when everybody in tech [TS]

  wants to if they're launching anything that they're doing it now like you've [TS]

  got to get it out before july and august and you guys have a big conference that [TS]

  just got wrapped up right yeah which was my third time as my third time attending [TS]

  it but my first time working it and totally different experience is that [TS]

  mean it's it is an amazing conference it's probably you know obviously it's [TS]

  different than something like WWDC or CS but as far as executive conferences go [TS]

  and check that the public is invited [TS]

  well sort of invited to I think it's the best one [TS]

  well and it's you know it the history clearly dates to $YEAR when it was [TS]

  called all things D I mean it's you know to kara and wall and the big red chairs [TS]

  and you know it was the basically the only conference that Steve Jobs want to [TS]

  besides macworld and whatever Apple would put on Ryan instant and the [TS]

  difference it's you know that the big difference is that when Apple put on a [TS]

  keynote it's not really a conference it's you know here's everything we have [TS]

  to say and it's prepared and you know onstage there it's want Cara asking the [TS]

  questions right totally hear the difference and preparedness and who kind [TS]

  of lays out what what they talked about and all that but it was great actually [TS]

  you know I you know watching the the videos now I you know I kind of wonder [TS]

  like and what if jobs were still here what would he be talking about that kind [TS]

  of kind of ruins the mood but watching jeff bezos and Elon Musk just really [TS]

  really exciting and really interesting that's a great list i mean i would i [TS]

  would say you know pretty hard to top in today's executive world Baeza a one-two [TS]

  punch of bases and [TS]

  Elon Musk yeah was it was great because Bezos kinda has taken the role of the [TS]

  elder statesman almost as far as like CEOs who are still really really [TS]

  involved in the day-to-day and you know we'll talk not only it at length about [TS]

  the products that their companies make but just kind of the bigger picture in [TS]

  general which is kind of the role that jobs would would do you know he would [TS]

  talk not only in detail about how Apple thinks but also just kind of what's [TS]

  going on in in the world and yet you know if you haven't had a chance to [TS]

  watch the the full videos 80 minutes of jeff bezos talking to walt mossberg and [TS]

  then the other one was i believe over an hour of Kara Swisher and Walt [TS]

  interviewing Elon Musk they're there they're all available for free on Rico [TS]

  you should check them out [TS]

  it's really interesting and mask meanwhile musk kinda has played this [TS]

  role as like the the wacky guy in a spacesuit basically who you know half [TS]

  half of the talk was a physical lesson and the other half was you know let's [TS]

  pretend that were inside of a video game is at Rose it was crazy and it was super [TS]

  fun and that and that one came at the end of like a for me a 16-hour day setup [TS]

  and that might be a little mind blowing to have Elon Musk up they're speculating [TS]

  on whether it may know the idea was that you know and it's not like he's the [TS]

  first person i mean anybody who ever smoked a little weed and colleges had [TS]

  the same yeah the same you could go down that rabbit hole pretty easily but I [TS]

  mean you get it's a serious question that that actual scientists have [TS]

  pondered is is the universe as we perceive it [TS]

  what could it be a computer civil is our simulation of some kind of you know some [TS]

  kind of super advanced civilization right and i think his answer was like [TS]

  there's a one-in-a-million chance that were not in a simulation [TS]

  yeah I have to say I I i disagree with that I kind of feel i kinda lean towards [TS]

  the Occam's razor explanation that know this probably is it [TS]

  I I don't wanna you know I think people should watch it because it's interesting [TS]

  to see a smart guy riff on this it really is i'm not trying to discourage [TS]

  people from actually watching it I promise I promise to put the links to [TS]

  those two videos in the show notes they really are worth watching [TS]

  I think that the argument that there's an infinitesimally small chance that [TS]

  this is the real universe is that if you assume that computers are going to keep [TS]

  getting faster at the rate that they've gotten faster you know and that [TS]

  civilization is going to you know we're not going to destroy ourselves [TS]

  um eventually we're going to have computers that could simulate and in [TS]

  something as complex as the universe and they're going to have you know the end [TS]

  are going to be billions of those stimulates of simulations so if any [TS]

  civilization got to this level of technology first then the the odds are [TS]

  that of all the things that are as complex as the universe that that we're [TS]

  in the one that's actually real is very small think that's fair paraphrasing [TS]

  yeah that's basically what he said which you know i mean we wouldn't know would [TS]

  we [TS]

  but it's interesting i guess we wouldn't know what we I don't know they figured [TS]

  it out in the matrix that's sure [TS]

  huh that's true we need a nokia phone and some pills i guess i think that one [TS]

  of the things that makes these two guys interesting and it's one of the things [TS]

  that certain jobs just a compelling figure . but and I i think there's even [TS]

  like a term for it but that it's it's not just the fact that their CEOs and [TS]

  it's not just the fact that there they run interesting companies and it's not [TS]

  just the fact that they have their interesting minds and they come out you [TS]

  know they say interesting things but it's that the founders of the company [TS]

  that CEO founder it has a certain magic and maybe there's no real maybe it [TS]

  shouldn't maybe that's not quite logical maybe that's sort of a lizard brain [TS]

  aspect of human perception but that somehow there's there's a gravitas to [TS]

  CEO founder that say Tim Cook is never going to have [TS]

  yeah and and I don't you know in it and and I don't know if that's because their [TS]

  founder or you know because they're still CEO but maybe just because they're [TS]

  the type of person that would be the founder of something truly successful [TS]

  and and big and i think it's it's kind of interesting in comparison to many of [TS]

  today's CEOs who make cool things and then kind of you know Escape you know [TS]

  quit the company or something like that not only are they still there but [TS]

  they're using their power and influence in really interesting and creative and [TS]

  productive ways you know in vases case doing space research and starting new [TS]

  companies and buying one of the nation's most storied newspapers mosque to [TS]

  basically creating now creating free start-up ideas for everyone every couple [TS]

  years like the Hyperloop and now what was he talking about the the mesh that [TS]

  goes in your brain and you forgot us [TS]

  yeah that totally lost me there yeah I believe him and I right I don't [TS]

  that's cool i really i really liked it and you could also so we you know we [TS]

  also had sundar Pichai which you know in the same vein as cook like he's the CEO [TS]

  one of the most powerful companies in the world is an interesting guy but [TS]

  doesn't carry the same weight as a Bezos and then bill and melinda gates and you [TS]

  could you can really tell that bill is no longer thinking as the CEO microsoft [TS]

  but is you know it as a world-leading philanthropist and is really actively [TS]

  much more interested in science and and medicine then you know that the nuts and [TS]

  bolts of technology and the internet yeah something [TS]

  sink to and I i don't know if it's coincidence or if there's really [TS]

  something to it to the fact that Bezos and musk are in fact directly competing [TS]

  in terms of that having a space in a rocket ship startups trying to privatize [TS]

  space exploration something that had previously been entirely a government [TS]

  overseen endeavor Elon Musk has space ask X and what space is this blue origin [TS]

  is that me yeah that's it that's it the origin III don't know if that's a [TS]

  coincidence I don't know if that's just a factor of you know that couple of guys [TS]

  born in the sixties when space you know as young boys with an interest in [TS]

  technology how could you not be obsessed with space and that if you ever got [TS]

  successful enough that be in the position to do it it's inevitable that [TS]

  they would or is there something to it like is this really going to be a thing [TS]

  you know in the next 10-15 years [TS]

  yeah that I think it's some of both i think you know if you have essentially [TS]

  unlimited money [TS]

  what's bigger than trying to you know leave the planet you know it's hard to [TS]

  imagine bigger things than that but I do think a lot of it has to do with when [TS]

  they grew up I don't know if you know I I don't know if Mark Zuckerberg has more [TS]

  interest in space for example he might I don't know and I don't know if that is [TS]

  just because of who he is and or our sample set is pretty small here but it [TS]

  is interesting coincidence that the two of them are are so into it or maybe not [TS]

  a coincidence that it's certainly interesting i don't know do you want to [TS]

  go to space [TS]

  I have late breaking news live late breaking news I have to interrupt the [TS]

  show this is big news [TS]

  my wife just came into the office while recording she no I knew that must have [TS]

  been a big deal she found my missing canisters for the busy machine that up [TS]

  where were they Amy we're gonna do it we're going to reveal it on the show [TS]

  where it's not funny [TS]

  where was it fun and they were in the coat closet [TS]

  somebody put them like in a milk crate and the back [TS]

  I don't know who would do such a thing you one of them on the floor and i like [TS]

  that interesting [TS]

  you did you put them there no I believe that I believe that that my wife is the [TS]

  perpetrator and I believe that's why she came in with a very sheepish grin [TS]

  that's cool how many are there three are several right well now I've gotta now [TS]

  I've got a lot you might bite my system with the SodaStream is i have four in [TS]

  the house at all times and as soon as three are empty [TS]

  I take the 32 the wood local william sonoma and exchange them for another [TS]

  three but that that way if i put it off for a couple of days I've got the fourth [TS]

  1 in the machine [TS]

  you know keeping me carbonated so our long national mystery of where my [TS]

  missing three canisters were is over [TS]

  all right where were we what we talked about spaceships see my system is is [TS]

  used one up and then not make sodastream for six months haha night I wouldn't i'd [TS]

  i would die of dehydration lodge have to buy i buy like the six-pack of whole [TS]

  foods sparkling water right anyway we're talking about space do I want to go to [TS]

  space no i don't think i do I don't know I don't know I feel like I grew up at at [TS]

  the wrong time like i was born in 1973 so I've never been alive when there's [TS]

  been a man on the moon [TS]

  and i love the space shuttle stuff when I was a kid but then it's like it was [TS]

  like cool we have a reusable spaceship you know it made it seem like there was [TS]

  a there was a coolness to that right there it even as a little kid you could [TS]

  tell that there was something wrong about the idea that they built this [TS]

  massive skyscrapers sighs rockets that look like just amazing and I just filled [TS]

  with jet fuel and then by the time these guys got into space there in these tiny [TS]

  little things that were just at the tip and then they come back and you know [TS]

  when they'll and it's you know all that comes back into the ocean is this tiny [TS]

  little thing that you know looks like a refrigerator and you could tell the [TS]

  techs inefficient so when the space shuttle program started i was i don't [TS]

  know i remember being I was in school the day the first space shuttle launched [TS]

  and you know that was so awesome they can only let everybody got out of class [TS]

  and we crowd around the TV and watch you know watch it on the news and i think [TS]

  they even let us do it again when it landed i think when it like that space [TS]

  shuttle landed they pulled us all out of class and let us watch it was amazing [TS]

  because here's the ship and when you know like they're still Rockets you know [TS]

  that to get into space there were disposable Rockets but the main ship [TS]

  itself came back that seem like k we're getting somewhere and then nothing else [TS]

  really happened right i mean it's like after the space shuttle and the space [TS]

  shuttle program had a couple of you know like with the Challenger disaster was [TS]

  all kind of a bummer [TS]

  yeah yeah for i would say for me that the main problem is I'm just not really [TS]

  a desert guy so going to Mars it's like where I don't really not really [TS]

  interested in going to a giant desert if there were lush mountains and streams [TS]

  maybe that that would be interesting but yeah I could see it it may be you know [TS]

  like the 2001 a Space Odyssey idea if they put a hilton just in orbit around [TS]

  the Earth yeah put a help in orbit [TS]

  I i might be convinced to go to that but I feel like it going to Mars it's you [TS]

  know it seems like certainly within our lifetime there's never gonna be a way to [TS]

  go there that's not you know it at you know incredibly long trip [TS]

  I know I I feel like it's a long enough trip [TS]

  flying to California right yeah that's going to say enough this it's enough fun [TS]

  to go to LA for a few days and if I either help nor in low orbit that I [TS]

  would I i will i will withhold the the right to go up there that could be neat [TS]

  that's basically like one of those emirates flight swear you have the the [TS]

  the suite with the bath the shower now just going for him for a week instead of [TS]

  12 hours and remember [TS]

  yeah and you know it would be cool to experience weightlessness i guess i'm [TS]

  not sure i get the infatuation with it and i think you know i think you're [TS]

  right i think it is sort of generational though and maybe these guys are right [TS]

  you know like you know maybe there was something to the the the sixties john f [TS]

  kennedy you know challenge to to do something like that seems more than [TS]

  coincidental that basis and Oscar both both have that obsession [TS]

  well maybe next year we need to have them both on at the same time dueling [TS]

  dueling rockets [TS]

  yeah it makes me wonder like like two bases hangout was he there the next day [TS]

  did I would like to do they spend any time together I know it was you know [TS]

  basis the first night in Moscow second and I know [TS]

  musk was late getting there so he was obviously wasn't there you know [TS]

  beforehand [TS]

  no to my knowledge there was no hanging out just kind of a bummer be cool if the [TS]

  kind of the VIP guests hung out and stayed around for a while but a lot of [TS]

  times now they just kinda take take off go back to wherever they come from go [TS]

  back to their bond blares Bond villain years [TS]

  yeah I heard I heard last year that that the snapchat guy basically showed up [TS]

  took a brand-new tshirt out of a box put it on went onstage got off stage and [TS]

  then left basic looking but the new t-shirt thing that gets me [TS]

  yeah I'm not going onstage of that now is like a brand new mini edition deep [TS]

  v-neck t-shirt go on to forget the brand and we actually so we just relaunched [TS]

  the site i should probably explain why I'm [TS]

  there but basically you know the vox media bought recode of over just over a [TS]

  year ago and you know many part in many reasons for the code conference itself [TS]

  but also because the recode website is so influential and you know just a brand [TS]

  that people know and and I think trust and you know they want to do a lot more [TS]

  with it so they approach me earlier this year with kind of that that in mind and [TS]

  it sounded like a really exciting opportunity for me so with the first [TS]

  thing we did was was completely redesigned the site and relaunch it on [TS]

  the vox media publishing system and and now we're we're about to open a bunch of [TS]

  jobs and and hire new people and and expand our coverage and and do a lot of [TS]

  that sort of stuff so Daniel left off the very most important thing that you [TS]

  guys did [TS]

  oh yeah we we got rid of the / government / which I never gave you any [TS]

  way [TS]

  no that was like my first day I think they were like what are we gonna do the [TS]

  slashing we are getting rid of the / if there's ever a question about how to [TS]

  write the name of your site that is a problem [TS]

  so it was great that's that's why it that I think they should have instantly [TS]

  even if it was the first day they should be given you a raise [TS]

  yeah i mean i think i remember maybe it was even you when it when they launched [TS]

  you're like I don't know about this lat i was i was immediately i was [TS]

  immediately questioning / yeah I didn't know what the history of it was and I [TS]

  asked about it last week and i found out about it and let's just say it's not a [TS]

  good [TS]

  it's not an interesting story so I won't repeat it but no one I don't think [TS]

  anyone's really tied to it so well i'm all about simplicity I mean if you [TS]

  remember my every time I build a website it's the simplest layout possible and [TS]

  you know no note too much not too much depth ER or complications so my face [TS]

  recode has had that as part of their brand right from the start that even [TS]

  when they had the slashing their name it has been a very reader-friendly site [TS]

  uh-huh [TS]

  I disagree [TS]

  I think I think it got better i think it I think that the redesign it better it's [TS]

  better I mean before the front page was this very pinterest looking thing with [TS]

  ya variable height blocks and you know and you could say well the front page [TS]

  doesn't really matter [TS]

  people don't really go there are front page is actually still very popular is [TS]

  often the most popular page on the site and it's much simpler now it's you know [TS]

  it's just it's a standard reverse cron actually not always reverse chronicles [TS]

  we have we have complete control over the order of the the post but it's much [TS]

  simpler [TS]

  so any my impression is almost mostly reverse crunch but you guys can pin like [TS]

  a blockbuster story to the top [TS]

  yeah we can we actually do some painting throughout the river like if there's a [TS]

  feature story will keep that in the river up top for a few days something [TS]

  like that but but before like the headline family's future which is a [TS]

  great if you're like one word here and there but not really the kind of fun [TS]

  you'd want to ever read a sentence in for example so some of the stuff i mean [TS]

  it wasn't it wasn't bad it's just at to me it was an opportunity to really [TS]

  simplify and got to work with the really talented design actually the guy who [TS]

  made our logo designed the oculus logo for facebook he his design he designed [TS]

  the logo for curved and some of the other box media properties so I'm really [TS]

  happy with it yeah and the logo has a little homage to the / yes the implied / [TS]

  yeah and that actually was a little more pronounced in the earlier versions of it [TS]

  and I kind of had them to get a little bit but it works i mean that the whole [TS]

  point is for the design to get out of the way and just break news and do good [TS]

  analysis and will do more we we did a few really big ambitious profile [TS]

  features for re-launch which is about a month ago including a really well [TS]

  reported feature one of the first really about Evan Spiegel the founder of [TS]

  snapchat and we sent one of our reporters to Kansas City to write about [TS]

  google fiber which had had now celebrated i believe its fifth birthday [TS]

  there [TS]

  and both of those stories did so well that we were almost surprised and not [TS]

  now we have to figure out how to do more of those because they were really [TS]

  outside of our kind of workflow so where were really happy with that and it's [TS]

  been fun so far [TS]

  you know the the I guess kind of the the the backpack story is that for me it's a [TS]

  reunion with my first boss Peter Kafka who I worked with at forbes a almost 11 [TS]

  years ago and we left together in 2007 to start silicon alley insider with [TS]

  Henry Blodgett so we were the first three people with the site that became [TS]

  business insider and then Peter left to join Karen Walton all things D and i [TS]

  stayed on and now you know what is really a decade later we're reunited and [TS]

  that's when you and I first got to know each other was when you're at a business [TS]

  insider or silicon so kind of finale or their alley insider i still remember the [TS]

  first time you linked to us and I said something like well this is wrong but [TS]

  here so i don't remember but claimed chatter or something yeah I don't know I [TS]

  definitely and what's your title your like the editor right I'm [TS]

  editor-in-chief editor-in-chief now you Peter Kostis possum sort of uh huh [TS]

  no one's really Peters bus but no I mean he's here we work together there's and [TS]

  Kara Swisher obviously is very involved in the site but basically it's kind of [TS]

  my sight to do what I want with and my perspective is that you know having now [TS]

  worked at some really interesting business publications and watch the text [TS]

  section basically take over [TS]

  you know I think all you need is the tech section so you know I don't know I [TS]

  wrote somewhere that I tech we used to cover tech as a thing but now take is [TS]

  everything so we'll keep adding new coverage areas we recently hired a [TS]

  really wonderful transportation reporter to cover the rise of well it's not the [TS]

  rise anymore but the continued [TS]

  growth of uber Tesla and those types of companies and you know I anticipate that [TS]

  and by the way that's a role that you know even three years ago we would have [TS]

  kind of scratched our heads out like well why would a text cite Nina [TS]

  transportation reporter but obviously portion of course you do it is funny [TS]

  that it'sit's that's a perfect example of like how this industry changes on the [TS]

  fly [TS]

  you know five years is a good good distance to go back five years ago that [TS]

  would have been like a head-scratcher and today it's like you're not if you [TS]

  don't totally I mean five years ago it i think you were already existed but it [TS]

  would have been covered as a you know an appt startup or something like that and [TS]

  now everything is a nap startup really and just every industry is is going to [TS]

  be a you know reimagine by tech some faster than others and transportation is [TS]

  one that we've kind of identified early as something that we should really have [TS]

  a have a say in uncovering I imagine you know at some point we'll be covering the [TS]

  tech of of food or a finance or all kinds of stuff basically wherever we we [TS]

  ever wherever we have personal interest or wherever we find a really great [TS]

  journalist who can do kinda on that coverage for us [TS]

  have you seen a story that sort of mini controversy about Tesla yesterday about [TS]

  like some guys Tesla had to suspend the ball joint the suspension sort of rusted [TS]

  out [TS]

  you see this story i did not i put it in the show notes but there is a guy who [TS]

  I'd never heard of before named Niedermayer don't mix which always makes [TS]

  me think of animal house but I've never heard anybody is a longtime car industry [TS]

  automobile industry writer Edward Niedermayer okay not that i know another [TS]

  Niedermayer know and i'll send you a link but I ok I'm pasting this into the [TS]

  show notes right now so I won't forget area [TS]

  boom there it is and the gist of his article is riding on Tesla Tesla [TS]

  responded and it seems it again it's sort of like you know musk as jobs like [TS]

  four sometimes like like with those like I'm sometimes he'd sign them like with [TS]

  thoughts on music but like member the one time there was like a fact on the [TS]

  app store it was like an FAQ and it was like there was some stuff in their life [TS]

  you know the app store doesn't need any more fart apps you know not everything [TS]

  needs to be made and you can just tell that Steve Jobs yeah not just like stood [TS]

  over it but that he liked his hands on the keyboard for some of that and it the [TS]

  the Tesla PR response to this was a sort of dismissive in a way it totally in a [TS]

  way that like you know and there's enough people that test was out there [TS]

  they're obviously not all falling apart but you know the gist of it was that [TS]

  they really blame this guy because he lived at the day like a two-mile Drive [TS]

  way to a remote home that was like a dirt road and that the car was just [TS]

  covered with dirt and it's sort of an unexpected use of it but it's you're [TS]

  holding it wrong [TS]

  right but the gist of this Niedermayer guys at what made it more interesting [TS]

  than this specific incident of this ball joint in one test lab model s and and [TS]

  whether they're in general there's a problem is this guy who's a long time [TS]

  automobile industry watcher is very pessimistic on Tesla more so than [TS]

  anybody i've seen in his argument is that again i put in the show notes it's [TS]

  an interesting argument i'm probably linked it from daring fireball actually [TS]

  just haven't gotten around to it yet but his argument is that it's there's a [TS]

  counterintuitive aspect to pricing cars and that people think hey when you spend [TS]

  a lot of money on a car like let's say like a model s you expect a better [TS]

  quality car and that's actually not true because you go to super expensive and [TS]

  get like a Lamborghini or Ferrari in things fall apart all the time and are [TS]

  always in the shop and it doesn't matter because if you've got enough money for [TS]

  ferrari you could just have your chauffeur drive you around in your [TS]

  Mercedes until the cars back out of the shop and that it's the lower you go in [TS]

  prices the lower the price car the [TS]

  or the person who's buying it absolutely positively relies on it and therefore it [TS]

  needs reliability and that that's the secret to Toyota and Honda success you [TS]

  know starting in the seventies is that they from the top down [TS]

  we're focused on a quality in a way that a company from Silicon Valley is isn't [TS]

  going to get it right because quality at every step of the process is sort of [TS]

  event the antithesis of the silicon valley model which is move fast and [TS]

  we'll fix problems later like the revolution that Toyota brought to the [TS]

  assembly line was that the old way was that the car would keep moving down the [TS]

  assembly line and even if all was identified they try to fix the fault [TS]

  after i got off the end of the assembly line and what Toyota is the Toyota Way [TS]

  and you know that's actually a thing like the w is capitalized the Toyota Way [TS]

  is that as soon as a fault is identified in a car in the assembly line the entire [TS]

  assembly line shuts down and I almost move in in Reverse to identify where the [TS]

  fault happened and fix it right there to make sure that it isn't you know [TS]

  perpetrate created in more than one car even if it's expensive to shut down the [TS]

  assembly line and do it that way but then that that that sort of expensive [TS]

  that is sort of what motivates everybody along the way to be hyper focus that you [TS]

  don't want to be the guy who shut down you know cause the assembly line to shut [TS]

  down and that Tesla doesn't have that mindset and as they move down to more [TS]

  affordable cars [TS]

  what's this one called the model 31 sitcom think so whatever the one is [TS]

  called that everybody went nuts foreign and bought a gazillion pre-orders for it [TS]

  this 35,000 our price range people's expectations for reliability are going [TS]

  to be way higher than they were for the hundred-thousand-dollar model s and he [TS]

  doesn't think that they're suited to do it [TS]

  interesting theory yeah I don't know about that i mean he seems really I [TS]

  again I don't know I've never i don't own a successful I don't know what their [TS]

  kind of global reliability is but he did seem to really care about quality when [TS]

  he was talking about a code where he was saying even that the people who bought [TS]

  the base level 35 thousand dollar version [TS]

  would get a pretty freaking awesome car [TS]

  yeah you know definitely not like the kind of situation where you need to [TS]

  upgrade to the fifty-thousand-dollar tier or whatever you know making a [TS]

  number up to get a great car so I it seems like safety is probably the [TS]

  biggest priority but also and you know and also cool features but I don't know [TS]

  it seems like i don't have the perception that Tesla doesn't care about [TS]

  quality [TS]

  I don't know I you know it might also be the kind of thing where they're not old [TS]

  enough to have a long-term example of of how their cars hold up over time [TS]

  yeah I don't know it [TS]

  that seems like what you know how you are describing this will fix it later [TS]

  that seems like the attitude for a lot of software companies especially because [TS]

  the Internet has made it so easy to patch software as it goes and you know [TS]

  you could also argue that that's one of apple's problems that they don't do that [TS]

  enough but when it comes to hardware it seems like the companies that excel at [TS]

  hardware make stuff to last more than the software company so I don't know [TS]

  and the other part of the controversy is that apparently it's come out that when [TS]

  you're with with certain out of warranty of repairs that if your Tesla is out of [TS]

  warranty let's say it's like three years old and you take it in but it's a weird [TS]

  problem and they run it up the chain like hey should we fix it for this guy [TS]

  or at a discount or free that sometimes when they do that they ask the person or [TS]

  in exchange for it they they have you signed what they call a goodwill [TS]

  agreement which is effectively an NDA that you're not going to talk about that [TS]

  your will you know instead of charging three thousand dollars for this repair [TS]

  will only charge you a thousand dollars but you but you need to sign this that [TS]

  says you're not going to talk about the problem and people had some people are [TS]

  spooked about the you know the the in a way that some people just get spooked [TS]

  when anybody's asked to sign an NDA yeah or how about the guy who would eat trash [TS]

  them on Twitter so you can't ya just literally can't is to Stewart Alsop well [TS]

  I'm technology columnist and and now a VC and Ilan much personally cancelled [TS]

  his order amazing which is a very stupid jobs you type thing I mean they're very [TS]

  savvy about some of the stuff they do i wrote a post a couple years ago about [TS]

  how they are effectively a their own media company to the way he would the [TS]

  way that he handled criticism by the new york times and in other situations where [TS]

  Tesla essentially published you know their own media without going to another [TS]

  reporter or something like that there are certainly ahead of the head of the [TS]

  curve in a lot of those things [TS]

  yeah up I've got these i put a couple links in the show notes already so [TS]

  they'll be there for everybody wants to read them here and paste it for you you [TS]

  have to read it while we talk [TS]

  let me take a break actually it's a good time to take a break and thank our first [TS]

  sponsor and it's a new sponsor could not be happier to have them here it's 0 te R [TS]

  oh here's what they make they make a brand new system of Wi-Fi routers why [TS]

  would you want to do that well here's why [TS]

  Wi-Fi is broken because for most people in most houses unless you live in like a [TS]

  studio apartment its if you have dead zones in your house were like you know [TS]

  you don't get good Wi-Fi it's because it's just really hard for one Wi-Fi [TS]

  router to reach everywhere it's just it's really just the nature of physics [TS]

  that the the the waves just can't pass through walls as easily as they can pass [TS]

  through the air and most people have walls and floors and multiple floors and [TS]

  houses so it really doesn't make sense and then the old way of trying to extend [TS]

  it [TS]

  I you know oftentimes you'd end up with multiple networks within your house it's [TS]

  a cap to be like as the system administrator to to do it so the single [TS]

  router models just doesn't work what you need is a distributed system and that's [TS]

  what 0 is and it is amazingly simple so they sent me as part of the sponsorship [TS]

  they sent me a package i got it i set it up they sent me a 3-pack they give you [TS]

  three these little things [TS]

  each one is identical they're just little pucks little apple tv's ask sized [TS]

  sucks a little bit thinner a little bit bigger but a little square round wreck [TS]

  puck honestly it really does look like something apple with design it's that [TS]

  sort of a visual aesthetic it's not something you'd want to hide you know [TS]

  somewhere in a cabinet or something like that it's it easily something you [TS]

  wouldn't mind having out you know on behind your TV or whatever it is it's [TS]

  got all the security stuff you'd want state-of-the-art wpa2 encryption great [TS]

  customer support you can call them up on the phone and get ahold of my Wi-Fi [TS]

  expert within 30 seconds and it's just so simple they recommend 10 for every [TS]

  thousand square feet of your home most houses two or three heroes find so the [TS]

  three pack is a good starting point for just about anybody and if you want to [TS]

  buy more you can just buy more and it you just plug it in to your router your [TS]

  place to take your old router throw it away [TS]

  plug this into your cable with ethernet right just one of them gets the ethernet [TS]

  then wherever else you want to put them around your house just put a couple more [TS]

  and they just configure themselves into a mesh network and just offer one [TS]

  effectively from you as somebody who just wants to hook up your macbook to [TS]

  the Wi-Fi or iphone to the Wi-Fi it just looks like one network you put the [TS]

  password in to configure it you don't have to go to one of those goofy figure [TS]

  you know fakey fake websites worth with the IP address whatever they've got a [TS]

  nice app right there in the App Store for iPhone and Android you just go there [TS]

  on the app and configure it right there really nice app for configuration could [TS]

  not be easier one of the pox it's not like a special one just pick one of them [TS]

  one of them plug it into the ethernet plug a couple more in around the house [TS]

  on different floors and all of a sudden the the fact that you can't get Wi-Fi in [TS]

  your bedroom or something like that it's it's all over so I've got one I can [TS]

  vouch for the ease i can vouch for the fact that the dead spots that we've had [TS]

  in our house are no longer deadspots really really great so if you are [TS]

  looking if you've got if you dissatisfied with your Wi-Fi in your [TS]

  house or looking for a new Wi-Fi router [TS]

  go check out 0 go 20 de ro . calm and use the code the talk show and you will [TS]

  get free overnight shipping so use that code you'll get free overnight shipping [TS]

  you'll have it tomorrow [TS]

  my thanks to ero speaking of breaking news what do you think about scoop scoop [TS]

  gurbin leaving 9to5 mac and his head in a bloomberg yeah it's funny I actually [TS]

  heard about that few months prior right in and say anything and i'm glad i'm [TS]

  amazed that stayed uh stay quiet [TS]

  I heard about it too i heard about it back at the March apple event [TS]

  oh cool and I even heard that it was Bloomberg and yeah I thought about being [TS]

  snarky and posting something about it that now because it seemed like it [TS]

  wasn't it wasn't up and it wasn't clear to me whether South Weintraub 9to5 mac [TS]

  new turns out i think he did at least by march but I didn't want to be I didn't [TS]

  want him to hear it that way and I thought as good but i just thought it [TS]

  was funny that that mark Gurman who spoils all these things for apple and [TS]

  other companies that a couple people i know knew and nobody nobody leaked yeah [TS]

  that's restraint i think it's great i think it's cool i mean it's going to be [TS]

  a bummer to compete with him you know [TS]

  so hey Mark a few if you find yourself miserable at Bloomberg give me a call i [TS]

  think it's cool you know it is going to get to work with brad stone was a great [TS]

  journalist and have what i would imagine are very nice resources available to [TS]

  them and also a TV network and and also you know in an organization that has a [TS]

  very specific mission and a business model that has nothing to do with [TS]

  internet advertising and is being run by a you know an on an on web guy who many [TS]

  people thought would would not really come back and and this is mike boomer of [TS]

  course not really come back and be the boss again and then showed up and was [TS]

  the boss again [TS]

  and you know it is a very profitable business that is dominated by the [TS]

  terminal which is going to face increasing competition so it's it's and [TS]

  is also kind of a in the business of producing solace but extremely accurate [TS]

  very fast you know market-moving news so should be interesting i mean i would [TS]

  guess that a lot of the stuff that would be publishable at 9to5 mac will not be [TS]

  publishable at Bloomberg either because it's too small you know like feature [TS]

  story you know it's not i don't mean long feature stories I mean stories [TS]

  about features of products that probably wouldn't you know wouldn't really cut it [TS]

  we'll see how that goes i don't know it also sounds like he's going to be [TS]

  working on non-apple stuff too so if he can use some of his reporting techniques [TS]

  which you know I admire to break news on another big companies i thought i read [TS]

  that he was gonna be working on stuff like Google and Amazon as well [TS]

  consumer tech I think that's great so it should be really interesting to see how [TS]

  it goes [TS]

  yeah it's the scoop aspect and that's why when I heard Bloomberg months ago it [TS]

  immediately clicked is that makes sense because it Bloomberg again this is you [TS]

  know you and I get a little inside baseball but Bloomberg and end it but [TS]

  it's interesting to you because recode is definitely ate a scoop company to [TS]

  write like you guys definitely pride ourselves on breaking some stories a lot [TS]

  of stories first absolutely and and Bloomberg its institutional at Bloomberg [TS]

  to like you know it's sort of almost the opposite of me is almost seldom ever [TS]

  break anything and don't really care about it but it's you know if and it's [TS]

  exemplified by the leaderboard at tech meme at which you know Carmen is so far [TS]

  out in the top of its ridiculous [TS]

  tell you that I think you're right though it's gonna be interesting to see [TS]

  how his at the faster and Loser style or standards of 9to5 mac compare you know [TS]

  how that translates to an institution with a more formal set of standards and [TS]

  you know i would say not having ever worked with mark that his his accuracy [TS]

  rate suggest that his personal standards are quite high [TS]

  yes because it's very easy to get sucked into posting what you think is the scoop [TS]

  and then being wrong whereas you know even when he is somewhat wrong it's [TS]

  usually you know could be easily explained by well he was right at the [TS]

  time but you know three months passed and totally reasonable for Apple to [TS]

  change the name of something or you know what whether they don't think they did [TS]

  it despite him that one time whatever but now but like he you know to my [TS]

  recollection is never really been wrong about something in a way that suggests [TS]

  that his journalism is highly flawed [TS]

  I you know I don't know who his sources are but my guess is that he's has pretty [TS]

  high personal standards about that [TS]

  so I've actually also never worked for Bloomberg so I don't know what how how [TS]

  the there's also the bloomberg way capital W and and i'm not sure how that [TS]

  will work with with mark but it certainly is a is an interesting place [TS]

  to be right now so should be fun for this learning experience [TS]

  I mean that dude is 23 so he can do it he can kind of do a lot of different [TS]

  stuff and figure out what he likes [TS]

  yeah it's and if you know he doesn't like it he can always move on Interstate [TS]

  know but it to me it's also interesting that he went that route as opposed to [TS]

  you know doing his own thing or taking on you no more independent stuff like 95 [TS]

  or yeah creating his own company or trying to work somewhere [TS]

  yeah and i have no idea who else he talked to you know he certainly could [TS]

  basically [TS]

  work at a lot of places i mean i would obviously have wanted to hire him it [TS]

  recode if if if I got him before [TS]

  Bloomberg kid but yeah it's cool i mean you know to be to be open about what [TS]

  what i was thinking you know this was when i was thinking about doing [TS]

  something new this year one of the things that jump back to mine was doing [TS]

  my own thing again and you know splat up too . or something like that [TS]

  there's nowadays there are business models that didn't really exist when i [TS]

  started splat of five years ago [TS]

  so what about this new app store stuff i think it's interesting so you you got [TS]

  breathe so why don't you start off and explain what [TS]

  so only I guess what happened yeah so it's very fast-moving of his monday and [TS]

  some of that Apple PR asked me if if I could be available tuesday for a [TS]

  half-hour or so phone call with phil schiller about some developer news that [TS]

  they're putting out ahead of WWDC next week I said I would try to find some [TS]

  time maybe i could maybe I could squeeze that in so tuesday an addict just a [TS]

  conference call but it you know and speakerphone and a couple of people on [TS]

  the other end but you know it wasn't like other it was just me on my end it [TS]

  wasn't like the other report i think some people the people in California got [TS]

  to meet with him live like that the verge that obviously wasn't gonna work [TS]

  for me but yeah and chiller told me that three things that are three of the [TS]

  things that they're doing or I have already done is the faster review times [TS]

  for the app store all the app stores we've noticed that he has you know [TS]

  developers who are submitting apps and that are used to week-long approval [TS]

  times getting their app approved same day you know it sticks out but it's not [TS]

  a fluke [TS]

  it's not some kind of short-term happenstance [TS]

  it's a deliberate plan that they took three parts of the day what they say [TS]

  staffing changes once I think under a couple of managers in there who [TS]

  sort of roadblocks to to moving this forward and that there are no longer [TS]

  there but in addition to that I think it was very clear talking to show her that [TS]

  the in addition to the staffing changes i think that there's also just the sum [TS]

  some changes to the way they're applying just the pure manpower of how many [TS]

  people are doing it the reviews tool changes and I heard a little bit more [TS]

  about this off the record from other people later in the week but definitely [TS]

  some some really good engineers at apple [TS]

  I mean they're not talking about the details of what these tools are but [TS]

  there's there's been a significant effort expended within Apple to create [TS]

  internal tools to expedite this offer the the app review process they're not [TS]

  revealing details not even off the record but it's not minor to this thing [TS]

  I've understood that months months of time from really good engineers were [TS]

  applied to this and then the last one mystery one to me is policy changes and [TS]

  I asked Schiller if he could expand upon that expound upon that and he hesitated [TS]

  and said I'd rather not talk about it so I don't know what that means but he [TS]

  didn't mean any stop and he did give one example and he said well here's one [TS]

  example that if if and a developer has three apps and they're sort of [TS]

  interrelated and and they update some core component of it and all three apps [TS]

  get submitted at the same time now when the reviewer pulls the app from the [TS]

  queue [TS]

  I mean I he didn't use the word inbox but effectively the inbox of of apps up [TS]

  waiting for approval [TS]

  they'll get all three at once and they can review them together and if there's [TS]

  any kind of you know interconnectedness between the apps it can really XP kit [TS]

  can make it you know an hour-long thing instead of a days-long thing which is [TS]

  interesting but to me that's not really a policy change that sounds like it's [TS]

  more part of the tool changes i suspect that part of the policy this is that [TS]

  nobody told me this this is just my thinking about what this could be [TS]

  nobody told me this on the record or off the record so i could be way off but I [TS]

  can't help but think that maybe some of the policy changes are a little bit of [TS]

  almost just granting the reviewers a little bit of common sense a latitude [TS]

  where like if a developer if they pull up the dap and they look at the [TS]

  developers history and it's marco arment and here's all the absence had before [TS]

  here's the a piece of me a new version of overcast here's the previous updates [TS]

  to overcast and he says that this is an update that fixes a sinking bug and that [TS]

  may be that there's a sort of like well I think we can trust this guy look at [TS]

  his history [TS]

  he's got a reputation put it through you know that don't you know to run whatever [TS]

  tests you want to do but that at an a permanent a developer with a trusted [TS]

  record is going to get less of a a thorough combing over then I brand new [TS]

  one . o app from a developer who doesn't really have a history or whose history [TS]

  isn't really a high-profile I can't help but think that it must be there must be [TS]

  something like that i don't know i mean and this seems to make sense and if [TS]

  anything it's it's kind of absurdly late to make changes like this i mean if you [TS]

  if you think of the app store is a nine-year-old product pretty much every [TS]

  other product that was launched nine years ago as has been vastly improved [TS]

  and that it seems like you know whether it's just a low priority for Apple but [TS]

  the developer app store experience just really didn't change that much over the [TS]

  years yeah the things that they added were so minor I mean those things like [TS]

  bundles you know where you could sell to the same developer could sell bundle of [TS]

  two or three apps as a single purchase you know it's that's I mean it was nice [TS]

  but I mean it's like wow that's not really a major change and it it wasn't [TS]

  something that really addressed some of the fundamental problems that developers [TS]

  had with the app store like these lengthy review times [TS]

  right and i think it's fair way i would guess that if there were any kind this [TS]

  is you know it's far-fetched but the idea that i remember back in the day was [TS]

  over there should be multiple app stores and apple should have to compete with [TS]

  with other app stores you you could bet that if there were other app stores that [TS]

  apple would have made improvements like this a long time ago and much more [TS]

  quickly so you know it [TS]

  yes it's nice to see stuff like this happen but I you know so there was a not [TS]

  really not like a major reorg but a minor reorganize and promotions back in [TS]

  December within Apple and one of the things that got shuffled around that the [TS]

  appstore got moved from being under Eddy Cue to being under phil schiller and [TS]

  that Phil Schiller was going to take it much more active role in overseeing it [TS]

  and this is the result of it that's why she was Schiller who is giving me and [TS]

  and jim dalrymple and the verge Lauren good at the verge and I think in the UK [TS]

  Telegraph I forget who wrote it but i think that they might have been the only [TS]

  for we might have been the only for who got a day in advance and if it was more [TS]

  than that it wasn't anymore but that's why it was sure doing a briefing because [TS]

  it's this is his baby [TS]

  I mean this is his this these are the results of his actions i think it's [TS]

  completely non hyperbolic to say that the app stores improved more in the six [TS]

  months under Schiller than it did in eight years under any Q I i don't think [TS]

  that original and why is that and a couple you know they're from people [TS]

  emailing me you know Twitter you know what's this is eddy cue is incompetent [TS]

  what's what's the problem I don't think that's the case i think it's i don't [TS]

  think it's a case that Eddy Cue couldn't get things like this done i think it's [TS]

  just that he didn't choose to that it that his worldview and what he saw as [TS]

  important in the store wasn't as developer focused as it as it is under [TS]

  Schiller and I just think it didn't it didn't rise to a priority level that it [TS]

  that it got done like it might these things might have been on the list under [TS]

  cute but that they didn't percolate to the top of the list and therefore didn't [TS]

  get done well it's also very easy for Apple feel like the app store is a huge [TS]

  grand slam hit [TS]

  I mean and a huge success that right the number the growth was was unprecedented [TS]

  the numbers are all up into the right and right and how you know how can you [TS]

  argue with success of this storm by the way we've we've written you check for [TS]

  billions of dollars so why aren't you happier 40 billion dollars i think is [TS]

  the number and i think i think that's what shoulder told me the other day and [TS]

  and and that might be it might just be that that was the number from January [TS]

  and it doesn't even include whatever they've paid since from january to [TS]

  $MONTH now because of that that hasn't been either hasn't a leader hasn't been [TS]

  authorized to come out and to me what's even more amazing it and could be 10 to [TS]

  you know a hundred times more amazing is that's only the money that goes through [TS]

  the itunes system it does not include the money that goes for example directly [TS]

  to Boober or driving like that when I is in my you know i'm i'm making this up [TS]

  but it's it could be five to a hundred times more money that that actually goes [TS]

  through apps that has nothing to do with with that 40 billion dollars so yeah for [TS]

  me by far and away the most money I spend on Hooper without question through [TS]

  my phone [TS]

  the most money I spend has got to be the ruber know where they are the apple [TS]

  store app when I buy a new laptop or something like that but for amazon or [TS]

  whatever yeah but that's that there's so much money that goes to these apps and [TS]

  you you really do have to make it a better product for for him developers [TS]

  for app users for everyone so you know so the other is the other changes are [TS]

  more I guess they're all kind of developer focused well the subscription [TS]

  pricing so I say how do they kind of frame that it was it was framed as we've [TS]

  had subscriptions but for a very limited number of type of apps cut mostly [TS]

  content producing apps like video streaming audio streaming you know like [TS]

  Spotify it's great healer is such a pro that he's never knocked off so it's like [TS]

  he never mentions any competitors even just on like a phone call never even [TS]

  though it never did mention span Spotfire panda [TS]

  but he just mentioned you know streaming audio streaming video remember the daily [TS]

  i think was one of the first yeah yeah yeahs job and he said news news [TS]

  obviously qualifies you know you can subscribe 22 paywall publications like [TS]

  the New York Times and Wall Street Journal through an app more or less an [TS]

  app that you have to subscribe to get content in you know on a regular basis [TS]

  and he said where you know we want to change that to open that up to all app [TS]

  categories and he mentioned and I didn't quote him on this but i know that the [TS]

  verge did to the verge quoted him on it that it would apply to like a [TS]

  Productivity app that requires you know constant updates to support features and [TS]

  and stuff like that and so I took it and initially as meaning that just about any [TS]

  app would be able to use subscription pricing in any way they see fit so that [TS]

  if you wanted to like an app like Vesper that that you know me and brent Simmons [TS]

  and and Davis made if we want to just do subscription pricing we could just do [TS]

  subscription pricing ah and then you know when they published their own [TS]

  website it [TS]

  Apple's website that language on the webpage made it seem as though it was [TS]

  still mostly about getting content and it was very very confusing and you know [TS]

  i emailed Apple PR and I got got answers but they were opaque and the lid long [TS]

  story short you know and then I got a phone call and the answer is i posted [TS]

  something last night about this that you know they're they're still thinking [TS]

  about how to clarify this but that they're absolutely aware of developers [TS]

  uncertainty about this definitely i keep looking forward to two talking to [TS]

  developers next week at WWDC about the way that developers have in their head [TS]

  that they'd like to use subscription [TS]

  and that in the week after WWDC they anticipate posting publishing something [TS]

  that clarifies some kind of fact that clarifies what the rules are going to be [TS]

  and what is this [TS]

  when does this take effect is it part of the iOS 9 sdk an app store or is this [TS]

  something that won't really work until iOS 10 anyway I is a good question i [TS]

  think its iOS 10 I think they're launching up so they have time [TS]

  yeah they said that they're launching a beta over summer there are already [TS]

  subscription apps and they'll get to take advantage of that new pricing [TS]

  system immediately it sounds like yeah well any other new rep share one of the [TS]

  biggest that might be the biggest thing that they announced that any app was any [TS]

  app using subscriptions after the subscription is a year old this revenue [TS]

  split exchanges from 70 30 which is what Apple publicly used for everything at [TS]

  all times everywhere there are long-standing rumors that like on Apple [TS]

  TV some of the third individual deals made out with companies that are better [TS]

  probably 8515 i guess but that at least for developers in the iOS and mac app [TS]

  stores everything is 7030 in-app purchases at purchases subscriptions [TS]

  everything after a year it goes 8515 until the end of the subscription and [TS]

  that's perfect because that's a significant difference especially if [TS]

  it's a three four five six years subscription [TS]

  it's a lot a lot of money it's like a twenty percent increase so that's [TS]

  interesting and it applies and meet that applies immediately so if I believe [TS]

  retro actively yes [TS]

  so if you already have a subscription app you know that that previously a [TS]

  qualified first subscription with the old rules all of your subscribers who [TS]

  have been with you for more than a year that's starting next week i think you [TS]

  know when the next billing cycle for those subscriptions comes around it will [TS]

  be 8515 for you that applies immediately which is nice I mean you you could also [TS]

  argue that it really should just be ninety-seven percent three percent [TS]

  because once the marketing is done apples really only facilitating [TS]

  trick credit card transactions but you know they also are in the position to [TS]

  set the rules so I think it's interesting that to me one of the most [TS]

  interesting things about this subscription thing is that this is kind [TS]

  of the problem the appstore solved for prior mobile apps if you you know if you [TS]

  think back to the days before the iphone when you had a flip phone or whatever [TS]

  they're there were apps and there were games and that kind of stuff and they [TS]

  were all sold on subscriptions and they were comically overpriced subscriptions [TS]

  and the phone companies took most of the money and the developers got hoes down a [TS]

  lot of it which is one of the reasons that these said that these apps really [TS]

  never took off but they all got added to your phone bill [TS]

  yeah and I but i think they were even like class-action lawsuits about you [TS]

  know how you would kind of get suckered into subscribing to one of them and and [TS]

  never get never it was never easy to get to unsubscribe and that's that kind of [TS]

  stuff but when the app store came out and 2008 and made it you know an [TS]

  ownership model where for a few bucks and then you know what what eventually [TS]

  went down to 99 cents and free you could actually buy a nap and owned it [TS]

  that was a huge difference over the previous model where you know you might [TS]

  get Tetris for 599 a month or something like that of which the developer got [TS]

  less than half of it and so it is a different time and you obviously the the [TS]

  devices themselves have changed so much since then and the absent themselves too [TS]

  i think the better the better model now to kind of look at is this is is it [TS]

  i think the better the better model now to kind of look at is this is is it [TS]

  is how profoundly different Adobe's businesses now that they've been able to [TS]

  switch to recurring subscription revenue for their creative suite products and [TS]

  likeness and Microsoft 244 office and you know and if if Apple's trying to [TS]

  make the ipad pro a professional device and they want companies like Adobe and [TS]

  Microsoft to make their highest end software for it they really need to [TS]

  support the business models that those companies are using so i think that I i [TS]

  do expect them to clarify what sort of apps could do subscriptions I mean we've [TS]

  you know you also see on the indie side you see an app like Marcos podcasting [TS]

  app where he charges in optional subscription just because you want to [TS]

  support him so he doesn't renew though I don't think yeah and I don't know how [TS]

  that how that sort of thing I wonder if that I wonder if that would hold up [TS]

  under whatever policies they would Institute them i think that I I'm really [TS]

  optimistic about this if apple takes a laissez-faire attitude to it and let [TS]

  developers I to me apples role should be there to serve as the trusted [TS]

  intermediary be between you and the developer you're paying for the [TS]

  subscription to meaning that apple will be there to make sure that you can [TS]

  unsubscribe easily at any time that you're not going to get the rate changed [TS]

  on you behind your back any rate change you have to approve explicitly that sort [TS]

  of thing and i think that's that's a perfect and other than that I think that [TS]

  they should just let developers try whatever pricing they want and see what [TS]

  works [TS]

  I don't think that they should really get away so they give a developer of [TS]

  something that doesn't get any content at all like a calculator app like p calc [TS]

  from James Thompson wants to switch to at three dollars a year subscription so [TS]

  that there's ongoing revenue and he can keep doing things like updating the app [TS]

  for new os's and [TS]

  not have to you know because there's no upgrade this is the part there's no [TS]

  upgrades in the app store and I don't think there are going to be and so apps [TS]

  like tweet bot and twitterrific have done things over the years were like [TS]

  when tweet pod comes out with a major new version of Tweetbot it's a new SKU [TS]

  in the app store and if you own Tweetbot three to get tweetbot for you have to [TS]

  buy tweetbot for and it downloads as a new app next to Tweetbot three on your [TS]

  on your device and you have to set it up again and make sure your counselor in [TS]

  there and then probably you know delete the old version of weak pots you're not [TS]

  getting like duplicate notifications for the dms and stuff like that and that [TS]

  whole fiddly like now I've got two apps on my home screen and I want to delete [TS]

  the old one and use the new one it's even worse in some ways than old-school [TS]

  managing your applications on a Mac or PC because of the sandbox [TS]

  although I guess maybe two AB from the same developer i think maybe when you [TS]

  with treatment because it's the same developer they can look in the sandbox [TS]

  yeah I guess that actually now that I think about it wanna i'm confused [TS]

  because i have a beta tester of tweaked . so I see all sorts of weird stuff but [TS]

  i guess maybe they can read the old Tweetbot three information because [TS]

  they're they're the same developer and so it's a little bit easier to migrate [TS]

  but the whole idea of having to manage these apps as two different apps and and [TS]

  keep it straight and delete the one you don't want anymore [TS]

  that's the that's the sort of system administration nonsense that the app [TS]

  store is supposed to eliminate but there's no other way for a developer to [TS]

  to put months and months and months if not years of development time into a [TS]

  major new version when most of their customers are you know they already have [TS]

  most of the customers are going to get that they want to make money you know [TS]

  they need to make they need to monetize the users they already have to support [TS]

  the ongoing development and to me subscription pricing is is the way [TS]

  forward [TS]

  yeah i agree and i agree with your assessment that they should let the [TS]

  market sorted out if you know if people want to use this model then they'll pay [TS]

  for it and if they don't they just won't and the app will fail so right or it'll [TS]

  change you know adapter dido change to it paid upfront go back to pay upfront [TS]

  or something like that [TS]

  and I know that there are people listening i know i've heard from you on [TS]

  twitter i know that there are people who really hates description apps and that [TS]

  they like the idea like just basic idea of all right i'll give you will agree x [TS]

  amount of dollars i'll give you five dollars for this version of your app and [TS]

  if a year from now you have a version with new features and you want more [TS]

  money for me i get to evaluate whether those features are worth it to me and if [TS]

  not I'll just stick with the one that I have and it will keep working [TS]

  whereas if its subscription model and a year from now you're not happy with what [TS]

  the app is and you want to stop your subscription before it renews the app [TS]

  make you know depending on how the developer is configured is probably [TS]

  going to stop working or go back to a very limited feature set and you're [TS]

  going to lose what you had because you didn't renew the feature i realize that [TS]

  in some ways that to step back from the users perspective but the truth is that [TS]

  apps tend to stop working after a year or two anyway if if you're not upgrading [TS]

  to the latest version just because of os changes that subscription model just [TS]

  makes that more instantaneous and that's the weight stuff has worked on the web [TS]

  forever i think the web is sort of changed people's mindset on stuff like [TS]

  this like if you sign up for a service like base camp if you stop paying for [TS]

  base camp [TS]

  there's nobody expects right exactly [TS]

  yeah nobody expects that you can keep using the old base camp [TS]

  yeah yeah the models have changed and you know don't be a cheap-ass i think is [TS]

  is is part of it but you know if you get value from software and if the model for [TS]

  the developer to you know build a sustainable business is to make it a [TS]

  recurring revenue thing i also wonder how much of this is has to do with this [TS]

  new Apple like we're services company thing pride that's probably not the [TS]

  number one number two or even number three factors but for Apple to get more [TS]

  recurring revenue through the app store is a great thing as well so yeah well [TS]

  this is why I think they should take a laissez-faire attitude towards it and [TS]

  with reason that I'm optimistic i mean here at to me the biggest hole in the [TS]

  ecosystem and I think I don't see how anybody could deny this the biggest hole [TS]

  in the ecosystem [TS]

  is serious productivity software for the ipad that there's lots of great iphone [TS]

  apps that you can do quote-unquote work with about as best as you can expect to [TS]

  on the phone ambitious apps for the phone and the mac that's the whole [TS]

  reason the mac even still exists is that there are serious applications that [TS]

  people who work on their max all day long can get their work done on and [TS]

  those sort of apps there are some for ipad but nowhere near as many as there [TS]

  are on the mac and a lot of them are a lot of it i would say nowhere near as [TS]

  many as as are necessary for the ipad to become you know the future work machine [TS]

  for a lot of people [TS]

  yes exactly i mean and an example would be the very very popular a drawing and [TS]

  you it's a sort of specialized in UI design the tools sketch sketch outfits [TS]

  very popular and they just announced the date they have a sort of it's not a [TS]

  subscription but they have a sort of annual you know I put it in the show [TS]

  that i make a note but there but their mac only and people love this app sketch [TS]

  is a big big part of the UI work UI design workflow for an awful lot of [TS]

  developers and they don't have an ipad app and they've actually come out [TS]

  publicly and said we don't really a plan to make an ipad app because we don't [TS]

  think it'll be worth it financially we don't think we'll it we don't think that [TS]

  the money we could make from it [TS]

  given the ecosystem you know the pricings you know the prices people [TS]

  expect on ipad that it's just not going to be worth it you know i think it's i [TS]

  think sketches like a hundred dollars on the mac and it there's just no way to [TS]

  know it doesn't seem like they could take the ipad supports that maybe if [TS]

  they could go to like say a five dollar a month subscription they could maybe [TS]

  that would work i don't know i don't want to say sketch in particular but [TS]

  that's the sort of thing you don't see people saying we're not going to make a [TS]

  mac professional tool because we don't think we can make money at it and you do [TS]

  see people saying that on ipad and I can't help but hope I don't I wouldn't [TS]

  necessarily bet on it but it seems to be possible that subscription pricing for [TS]

  apps like sketch [TS]

  could be the answer for the ipad yeah we'll see I mean it would have been need [TS]

  to introduce to launch it at the same time is saying and by the way sketches [TS]

  coming ipad no but I and and you know it easier said than done [TS]

  the switch from buying stuff to subscribe to stuff is happening [TS]

  elsewhere too i mean that's where music is going and there's no rumors that [TS]

  apple is in particular in it you know obviously Apple music is a big a big [TS]

  effort in subscription pricing but that they're strategically de-emphasizing [TS]

  purchasing music from itunes as time goes on I mean I've been a couple of [TS]

  reports about that and also subscribe to paper towels at an awful lot of people [TS]

  watching an awful lot of video through netflix you know that they're not buying [TS]

  all this stuff they're paying netflix eight bucks a month or nine bucks a [TS]

  month or whatever here they're at and watching it until their subscription [TS]

  isn't there anymore which point they watch nothing you know if you subscribe [TS]

  to paper at your paper tells the don't disappear though if you stop your [TS]

  subscription true and I realized there are definitely trade-offs but i think [TS]

  people who want to be need jerk i'm going to resist this you know i'm i'm [TS]

  not going down this route at all [TS]

  you're not moving forward with the industry and again I acknowledge that [TS]

  there's it's not perfect but it's you know it's the way things are going [TS]

  there's also the ads we talk about the ads but I don't we take a break before [TS]

  we do that i'll come back to that and and I want to thank our next concert our [TS]

  good friends at Harry's hair shaving set will make the perfect Father's Day gift [TS]

  but you gotta order and soon got over like right now like you're probably [TS]

  listening to this I think a lot of people are going to listen to this over [TS]

  the weekend of jun 11 12 before WWDC order now and you could get this stuff [TS]

  before the following sunday which is father's day so listen don't even do you [TS]

  know maybe even just maybe even just stop right now just pause the podcast [TS]

  and go to Harry's com [TS]

  and remember the code talk show [TS]

  not with the just talk show and you'll save five bucks to stop the show and go [TS]

  order something for your dad they have a Father's Day shave kit with a matte [TS]

  black razor handle looks great chrome razor stand very moisturizing foam shave [TS]

  gel three of their handcrafted blade cartridges travel cover and it's all for [TS]

  just forty bucks and comes in a sleek giftable box with the option to add [TS]

  custom engraving and a personalized card they have regular shaving kits if you're [TS]

  not looking for a gift started just 15 bucks and here's the deal [TS]

  they have their own blade factory they were sourcing from this razor blade [TS]

  factory that in Germany and they were so happy with that they just bought the [TS]

  factory they just make the blades themselves they sell stuff to you [TS]

  guaranteed and they easily beat the price of big-name companies like [TS]

  gillette and chicken those people because they're not going through [TS]

  middlemen stuff from Gillette makes razor blades and it goes to a middleman [TS]

  and distributor and then it goes to like your local drugstores distributor and [TS]

  then the drugstores send it to the individual retail place in a retail [TS]

  place has to pay all this stuff for the store that they're in and they're all [TS]

  the employees who were there and then you gotta go find a guy to come and [TS]

  unlock the thing to the anti shoplifting class thing to buy these razor blades [TS]

  you're paying twice the price for the blades and it's a big pain in the ass go [TS]

  to Harry's use that code talk show you say five bucks off your first purchase [TS]

  and you can get a fathers day gift I got a quick on that and if it's just for you [TS]

  you can do things like get a get a subscription [TS]

  there we go tie in with the show where you can get a figure out how often you [TS]

  need new blades and you don't have to do anything i'll just show up every every [TS]

  month or three months or whatever you need [TS]

  so go to Harry's calm and remember that code talk show great sponsor so the last [TS]

  thing apple introduces search ads in the app store and now that i see what [TS]

  they're doing here [TS]

  I i don't think that it's I think we're talking about but I don't think it's [TS]

  worth I I think anybody was upset about it is it's a little misplaced I don't [TS]

  know that Apple needed to do this but I feel like it's this isn't really [TS]

  detrimental and it might end up help [TS]

  developers it's including smaller ones i think the fear that people have is that [TS]

  this is going to be a thing where it the auctions for these keywords or whatever [TS]

  are all going to be 1 by bigger developers with big ad budgets and it's [TS]

  just going to further promote the rich getting richer meaning the most popular [TS]

  apps getting more popular but talking to show her and let's see how they're doing [TS]

  it i think not i think this might actually be a good way for small [TS]

  developers really you know including really small individual ones to with a [TS]

  minimal adspend that they're completely in control of to get their appt at the [TS]

  top of the listing for more searches and interesting statistic that that Schiller [TS]

  revealed was that sixty-five percent of all app download still come are the the [TS]

  path to it is from the search box in the App Store app so getting your app being [TS]

  able to pay to get your appt at the top of that list is actually seems pretty [TS]

  pretty worthwhile [TS]

  yeah i mean these these ads work for a reason and they've driven a lot of [TS]

  growth for facebook's mobile business and google has them it seems logical [TS]

  that apple would have them too [TS]

  I'm sure they'll make a nice amount of money for it and it may I don't think it [TS]

  makes up for the fact that the app store needs to be better organic search and [TS]

  just the appstore browsing and discovery experience needs to be better but it you [TS]

  know it's hard to fault them for for building a system like this and even [TS]

  then I've talked to developers who who buy a lot of downloads on on facebook [TS]

  and google and it's still way cheaper than acquiring a customer almost any [TS]

  other way [TS]

  yeah yeah I've heard that too so in spite of money and chillers parlance [TS]

  it's quote-unquote social networks and search engines [TS]

  yeah in reality its Facebook and Google [TS]

  and it really no other no other social networks are really big twitter has a [TS]

  little bit of it and and when they first launched it i think a lot of people were [TS]

  optimistic about it but it talking asking a few people it seems like it [TS]

  twitter is nothing compared to facebook it was with regard to being able to pave [TS]

  for placement to get app downloads [TS]

  yeah i would say Facebook and Google Facebook and Google a to me the question [TS]

  is will developers get any good data from apple on their campaigns will they [TS]

  be able to see which keywords drove users will they be able to tie those [TS]

  users to any other analytics to tell paid user cohorts versus organic and i'm [TS]

  really curious about that is I think so it's it's I i think that the answer is [TS]

  yes that you'll be able to see if a certain keyword worked or how many came [TS]

  from it [TS]

  they also have an interesting option where you can just say here's what I'm [TS]

  willing to pay and let Apple pick the terms that that would be relevant to [TS]

  your app and you don't even have to pick the search keywords let Apple pick them [TS]

  and you only pay $MONEY per so I don't know whether there's a click or tap but [TS]

  it's since iOS is more popular than mac OS i'll say tap pay for tap so as a [TS]

  developer you only pay if your ad is shown but the user doesn't tap it you [TS]

  pay nothing [TS]

  you only pay when the user actually taps on it so if you figure out what what you [TS]

  know what conversion rate you think you can get for everybody who actually taps [TS]

  on your app and even have a calculator for that to help you figure out like [TS]

  what you should be considering your highest bid in the auction to make sure [TS]

  that you'd be profitable it seems like they have tools like that and I think [TS]

  that that the reporting tools are probably pretty good we'll have to see [TS]

  yeah i mean to me at so that and then there's always users who will tap the [TS]

  add and then not don't know the app right there are people who will download [TS]

  the app and never launched it and then they'll launch it once and then never [TS]

  again so I what I don't know is will you be able to identify which of your users [TS]

  were acquired through app store [TS]

  search ads oh I don't will you be able to compare them [TS]

  yeah I don't think you'll be able to do that because it's so there there's so [TS]

  many privacy-related ranks [TS]

  yes I don't will you be able to target users that have a competitor's app or [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  I remember hearing once that the i add let you target users based on what may [TS]

  be either what apps they had or what songs they had purchased from itunes or [TS]

  something like that I don't really remember though [TS]

  yeah I don't know either and i dare it enters you can definitely target by [TS]

  location and a user can opt out of that you know it's part of the user's [TS]

  location services and you can go to the settings and top-down but that is [TS]

  interesting to me you know it's i'm not quite sure i'm not sure i can think of a [TS]

  perfect example for where it would apply but that seems pretty interesting but [TS]

  those are the sorts of things like as it as a developer you would want to have [TS]

  that access but apples privacy focus might prevent you from from having that [TS]

  excess so right and I'm thinking about you know like something like I don't [TS]

  know like like if a conference has like a conference app that the location thing [TS]

  could help but on the other hand that also seems like the sort of thing where [TS]

  where you shouldn't have to pay it all because the search terms should [TS]

  absolutely know if you type in recoat recoat conference that recode app if you [TS]

  guys had a nap i don't know if you did but if you did it on why in the world [TS]

  would it not be the number one result anyway [TS]

  yeah i think we had a web app this time that that actually was very nice so [TS]

  we're actually surprisingly nice like for a web app yeah i think i mean it it [TS]

  so kind of zooming out a bit i think it's interesting that they went for the [TS]

  strategy of announcing these things first [TS]

  my guess is that none of these would have made the key maybe the subscription [TS]

  pricing may have made the morning keynote but probably not the add stuff I [TS]

  think few times would because they could cover it quickly and i still think that [TS]

  he had I still think they'll touch upon it i think though I think [TS]

  I'll say as you as you probably heard last week you know we've made some [TS]

  changes to the appstore it lets them [TS]

  here's what I think they're gonna do you know that it's like the typical apple [TS]

  keynote style where they'll introduce it and then at the end of the segment [TS]

  they'll they'll review what it is we just you know here's what we're going to [TS]

  tell you now we're gonna tell you now we're going to review they can skip all [TS]

  but the review and just say as you've probably heard last week we've put new [TS]

  systems and tools in place to let app get app reviews to fifty percent within [TS]

  24 hours in ninety percent within 48 hours and then the crowd will go nuts in [TS]

  this year we're adding subscription price is 200 lap categories and 200 [TS]

  price points for subscriptions and territory based pricing I i we didn't [TS]

  mention that but that's and I've heard and I am I try not to be us-centric but [TS]

  i can't help but be sometimes but i I've heard from a couple people that that [TS]

  this territory based pricing for subscriptions could be huge and the fact [TS]

  that it wasn't allowed before was really problematic that effectively the old way [TS]

  was you'd set a price if you set in dollars that the price in China would [TS]

  just be the conversion rate between you know [TS]

  China's currency in US currency whereas now you could set a dramatically lower [TS]

  price in a country like China and India where you know your us price was [TS]

  completely out of reach of most people and apparently this is something that is [TS]

  a huge deal and it could make you know subscription to even content based [TS]

  services a lot of a lot more interesting [TS]

  yeah I makes sense i mean if you imagine netflix has a smaller library in many [TS]

  countries maybe would want charge a you know a locally whatever the local [TS]

  equivalent to eight bucks a month is supposed to the direct conversion of [TS]

  eight dollars a month [TS]

  yeah yeah I you know I don't know how I could see the stuff being in the keynote [TS]

  but i can see how if the keynote was deemed full that these were the things [TS]

  that were let's just announced a week in advance like I could see it both ways [TS]

  like if there was room i could see holding them for the keynote if there [TS]

  wasn't a none of them are that blockbuster of a [TS]

  the thing that matter the blockbuster that they'll have enough to go over with [TS]

  the the arm-based mac OS to that was bloody something you told i mentioned [TS]

  that is an example i mentioned something like like you know that apps break over [TS]

  time like like powerpc apps don't run on Intel Max anymore and I something like [TS]

  that could happen again in the future with Intel to arm and that was not one [TS]

  of my koi little I know something is coming i have I don't know it i have not [TS]

  heard one thing from one person that are based macs are real thing I just common [TS]

  sense tells you though that it might it might be a thing because i think apple [TS]

  has good reason to be unhappy with intel intel seems to be late with everything [TS]

  from mobile chips to desktop chips Apple would surely like to have it under [TS]

  control under its own control and the existence proof is there that that there [TS]

  are benchmarks that show the ipad pro outperforming the the new macbook one [TS]

  and it's at least roughly on par in terms of just pure cpu performance so [TS]

  the possibility of arm-based max is real and when they did the Intel thing back [TS]

  in $MONTH 2006 they announced it at WWDC not with hardware that you could go by [TS]

  but they pronounce it at WTC so that developers could start thinking of you [TS]

  know get the tools to recompile their apps to be you know fat binaries with [TS]

  native arm and Intel code so if such a thing were to happen it it it wouldn't [TS]

  be it would actually be there is precedent that they might announce it at [TS]

  WWDC nine months before the machines actually ship so who knows [TS]

  uh-huh alright huh i'm all for it [TS]

  I think that'd be great I you know I do it I do too i don't know i think could [TS]

  be i think it's got to happen eventually I don't know it might just be you know [TS]

  34 years from now and it's like well maybe it just took a while for you know [TS]

  maybe they really wanted those chips to be super fast before they do it but I [TS]

  just think you know I just think it could happen eventually [TS]

  I just think and it just seems like something that would like to have under [TS]

  its own control [TS]

  so we'll see I don't know what do you think of this this week's rumor about I [TS]

  message for android it's in my notes so that's an interesting thing at a [TS]

  meta-level because it came from Mac Daily News who is not really known for [TS]

  breaking rumors i Mak daily news is sort of a mysterious website to me because I [TS]

  don't know who [TS]

  there's no byline on it but it's been around forever forever yeah I mean like [TS]

  I longer than daring fireball i'm pretty sure but I don't know who runs it [TS]

  it's a weird little site Apple to deliver I message to android at WWDC [TS]

  this was yesterday [TS]

  Apple will announce that I message encrypted text messaging is coming to [TS]

  android users at WWDC next monday according to a source familiar with the [TS]

  company's thinking this will make it possible for android and iOS users to [TS]

  communicate securely as I message features and encryption blah blah the [TS]

  source notes that plants are constantly in flux leading up to a bulky notes and [TS]

  the time of the announcement could change but that the iMessage instant [TS]

  messenger service would quote definitely be coming to android this year the other [TS]

  thing he says is that because there's a separate rumor that apple is going to [TS]

  allow person-to-person Apple pay payments via messages [TS]

  that's that's been around for awhile and that's just common sense that Apple has [TS]

  a payment service Apple has a secure messaging service [TS]

  why wouldn't they let me send you money through I message I don't think I [TS]

  question about that it is a great topic i have been what I definitely want to [TS]

  talk about it with you that the payment thing though is what confuses me because [TS]

  there I thought that so much of Apple pay was tied to the hardware in the [TS]

  phones you know the secure Enclave well and to me the bigger question is the [TS]

  fact that it's connected to the credit and debit card network which has a cost [TS]

  to it so if you look at the free person a person payment systems they're mostly [TS]

  go through bank transfers ACH thanks [TS]

  transfers if you do want to use credit or debit you usually have to pay a lot [TS]

  of things square cash is free but squares in the position to lose money to [TS]

  get new users whereas like that's not really an apple right so they're eating [TS]

  those transaction fees so you wouldn't just be able to you know I couldn't just [TS]

  send you a hundred bucks and put it on my chase visa that would cost Apple you [TS]

  know whatever like three or 3 bucks so they're not going to do that I don't [TS]

  know I you know and one of my colleagues reported earlier the apple pays [TS]

  interesting one of my colleagues reported earlier that they would also be [TS]

  working on Apple pay for mobile web [TS]

  I don't know how that would work with that be with their you know how that [TS]

  launched and Howard safari access the secure Enclave you know going back to [TS]

  the iMessage thing if I message is a marketing tool for selling iphones and I [TS]

  think that's how you may be described in a in a previous show it doesn't make [TS]

  sense to launch it on Android but if I message is suddenly a platform for [TS]

  payments for potentially bots for all sorts of stuff then yeah let's get that [TS]

  on as many devices as possible so and you know maybe even get a few of those [TS]

  android users much like Apple music going all this these apple services are [TS]

  kinda cool maybe I should just get an iphone and log right in so I I belong [TS]

  when curious as to when there would be some sort of I message platform the way [TS]

  that facebook Messenger is opening up the way slack is and you can kind of see [TS]

  I believe Apple itself uses I message through some sort of server because when [TS]

  you buy a if you use if you buy an Apple product through their apples to the [TS]

  apple store online and then pick it up in a store they send you and I message [TS]

  saying that it's ready for pickup so and i don't think that someone sitting at a [TS]

  mac and iphone typing that it so Apple obviously has a back-end to send [TS]

  iMessages through some sort of server q so the question is how [TS]

  riches that stn are those API is that the kind of thing that they would ever [TS]

  open up to third parties the way that again facebook Messenger align all these [TS]

  other services are becoming wechat could be coming platforms for BOTS and 44 [TS]

  other person machine communication [TS]

  I don't know where thats its fri message but I think it could be really [TS]

  interesting and I know there's a lot of this broke yesterday and most people [TS]

  asking me what I thought were very skeptical of why would that you know [TS]

  this seems completely opposite of apple and you know maybe I message even was [TS]

  this all previously was a premium messaging service you know just one of [TS]

  the nice things you get as an iphone and mac user is you get this nice messaging [TS]

  service that's end and secure [TS]

  maybe they're looking past that now and as you mentioned before to quarterly [TS]

  conference calls in a row a main talking point from Apple was that they are a [TS]

  quote-unquote there now you know one aspect of the company that's worth [TS]

  talking about is that they are services company and a messaging service would [TS]

  play exactly into that and bringing it to android would be a way to emphasize [TS]

  that i keep thinking when I see like the monthly active users are daily active [TS]

  users for messaging apps like whatsapp and what is something that we chat and [TS]

  some of these other ones that I message has to be up there in the same ballpark [TS]

  in terms of active users on a daily basis it has to be that if they spot [TS]

  somehow if it made sense in any way to spin I message off as an independent [TS]

  company it would be one of the biggest messaging services in the world and it [TS]

  would have just by the fact that the demographics of apples customers are [TS]

  that there tend to be for lack of a better word richer there you know it's [TS]

  it's a it's a it's not just the number of users but the amount of money that [TS]

  they have to spend is is significant that that would be a valuable company [TS]

  yet so many times when i see i just noticed it last week with merrymakers [TS]

  enter [TS]

  that trends thing and she talked about the top messaging services in the world [TS]

  and I message wasn't listed it you know are perhaps I'm colored by being mostly [TS]

  Apple focused in and what I write about but i really do think that my message [TS]

  deserves to be treated in in that caliber even though it is iOS and mac [TS]

  only I think bringing it to android would open a lot of people's eyes to I [TS]

  message is value as an independent service [TS]

  yeah by the way credit where due I'm now hearing those words and Ben Thompson's [TS]

  voice the iMessage as a iphone marketing tool so i think that was Ben who said [TS]

  that on your show a few weeks yeah maybe I mean I'm here in Wisconsin tones so [TS]

  how could they make any money at all on this you know like what would be the [TS]

  sense of bringing it like bringing Apple music to android makes sense because the [TS]

  however many android users are using it are paying for it so does make sense to [TS]

  try what sense would it make to bring I message to Android as it stands today [TS]

  well i don't think any right because it would just be that they they would just [TS]

  be losing money on whatever it costs to develop the app which is probably minor [TS]

  but they be losing on the you know the the ongoing cost of supporting all those [TS]

  additional messages right all the bandwidth of photos and videos and and [TS]

  I'll that I think from when any q's on the show a couple months ago I think [TS]

  that that peak that I message handles 200,000 messages per second which is [TS]

  really impressive [TS]

  I mean it's you know i know that you know blah blah blah Apple get services [TS]

  wrong I feel like it's like the it always see are the ones they get wrong [TS]

  in the fact that I message does tremendous volume and does it really [TS]

  well in my experience as a heavy I messages are better and better all the [TS]

  time in terms of like not getting like duplicate notifications on different [TS]

  machines and stuff like that it you know there has to be some other way that [TS]

  they're going to monetize it from android users and whether that payments [TS]

  or whether that's like pots you know from other you know like so that other [TS]

  stores could do the same thing that the apple store does but there has to be [TS]

  something like that [TS]

  so I wouldn't be surprised if that rumor is true at all [TS]

  yeah I think it'd be I think that could be really interesting [TS]

  I you know but you also couldn't argue that that would also be the first ticket [TS]

  for a lot of people to to get rid of their iphone and go to android maybe [TS]

  probably not millions of people but there's price some folks out there who [TS]

  would find switching to android easier if I message were there [TS]

  yeah it really is a good network effect in a good lock in [TS]

  but if the idea is to build a you know a really robust messaging platform out of [TS]

  it that's for other it for BOTS and other services then why wouldn't you [TS]

  want to access and I wonder if like some markets like India which apple is now [TS]

  brought up several times as a key growth area and Tim Cook spent time there [TS]

  earlier this year you know I wonder if that's the kind of thing where it's like [TS]

  well first get I message on your android phone see how cool it is and then you [TS]

  know and then by a a refurbished iphone at your first opportunity but I don't [TS]

  know I I i think that I message as lock-in is more effective than I message [TS]

  as a reason to get an iphone in the first place and you I've heard stories [TS]

  about like you know like teenagers who it's it's you know it's like totally [TS]

  uncool to be getting green messages from somebody and you know and there's memes [TS]

  that are out there you know where people like on Instagram you know treat [TS]

  screenshots of gross a green message but I can't see how that really perfect you [TS]

  know works for anything other than teenagers right i mean who else would be [TS]

  dead and i noticed when i get a green message from somebody and I think how [TS]

  that might you know that surprising that you know that's I would have expected so [TS]

  and so's you know to have an android phone but i don't really i don't i don't [TS]

  think lesser of them right [TS]

  it's you know silence you know what I do I'd I . I did I just think they have bad [TS]

  taste [TS]

  I don't think of them as a bad person [TS]

  and I don't think they should you know they should therefore feel bad and go [TS]

  buy an iphone i just think about there's somebody that doesn't have you know [TS]

  doesn't have the good taste to buy an iphone yeah I I was lying when I said I [TS]

  don't think less of them but I ok one what I my google reporter Mark bergen I [TS]

  excuse that he has a an android phone [TS]

  oh yeah yeah it's too yeah fact I prefer him to yeah I know Mark we rode in the [TS]

  back of a self-driving Mercedes together [TS]

  really yeah that's cool yeah I'm nice and I talked about a couple episodes ago [TS]

  but with a couple months ago you're at the Mercedes self-driving outfit that [TS]

  out there in the valley and mark and I were the two guys who got picked to go [TS]

  together else we could have been killed together as well yeah I yikes [TS]

  yeah if you were followed if your google reporting i have an android phone but [TS]

  anyway I don't think they sell many phones with it but I think once you have [TS]

  a phone and you're used to using I message it's definitely you know if you [TS]

  if you're like hey you know maybe one of these android you know maybe there's [TS]

  some stuff in android that's appealing to me like not having your iMessage [TS]

  anymore it seems like maybe I shouldn't switch but so it would be magnanimous [TS]

  for Apple to offer it on Android as in terms of like we you know we don't want [TS]

  to use this as a as a lock-in you know we're we're confident that people will [TS]

  stick with iphone you know for other reasons and and you know if you do want [TS]

  to leave take your message ID you know with you i also really do believe that [TS]

  the hassles that and I think they fix some of these problems but there were [TS]

  problems that that people had maybe still have to some extent where once [TS]

  your phone number gets associated as an iMessage phone number if you do switch [TS]

  to android and just pop your sim into an android phone you don't get text [TS]

  messages from people right forget those people yeah it's like you have to [TS]

  remember before you switch to disassociate your phone number from your [TS]

  Apple ID and then switch and that even there were people who even did it the [TS]

  right way and it still got lost and they don't they don't get text messages from [TS]

  iphone users because Apple keeps trying to send them as I messages [TS]

  and you know it's a pain yes so I think now you can after the fact going and [TS]

  remove and I message device from the server some yeah I think that's the [TS]

  solution that they can't they've come up with a way to do that they've given it [TS]

  delivered some kind of interface to allow it but that wasn't there before [TS]

  here's a question I have though about it I message on android is part of the [TS]

  appeal to me a huge part of the appeal on iphone is that I don't have a [TS]

  separate app for SMS that it just it's just one happen i don't have to worry [TS]

  about it [TS]

  yeah and-and-and similarly I wonder how that new alo app is going to work on [TS]

  Android where it's not the i believe it's not the default texting app but [TS]

  don't know the new app yeah I wonder if you'll be able to somehow selected as it [TS]

  is the main texting app at some point i would say that were maybe we're the [TS]

  minority I mean a lot of people are already using facebook Messenger and [TS]

  whatsapp and we chat is their primary texting app mentally so maybe this is [TS]

  not a it's big of an issue for them that i use mostly I message i do two or [TS]

  twitter d.m i guess but it's a lot of times i sent Twitter dm's and it's like [TS]

  if it's an ongoing threat i'm like why the hell am I will be not doing this on [TS]

  my message to get better [TS]

  whoo yeah or i won't see it for two days because i'm running twitter for mac in [TS]

  it somehow swallows the the notification or whatever but so I don't know as my [TS]

  verdict on my message for android is maybe yeah I could see it going either [TS]

  way and the biggest reason i'll repeat is simply the way that Apple's been [TS]

  saying we're services company where services company that would be putting [TS]

  their muscle where their mouth is right [TS]

  I wonder what it's like to be on the Android team at apple and if it's [TS]

  anything like what being on the Mac team at Microsoft was ten years ago I do I [TS]

  wonder I don't know are like the people who wrote or I guess continue to write [TS]

  itunes for windows [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  maybe they're exiled could be an even a another office somewhere it is worth [TS]

  noting though that Apple music for android [TS]

  i mean i-i don't have that I've tried it I five installed it on the Android a [TS]

  burner phone i have here but I it is to my eyes a much more natural android [TS]

  style app in terms of you I than any you know than any of googles apps are for [TS]

  iOS like Google uses their material design language which is effectively the [TS]

  Android design language on all of their iOS apps but Apple music for iOS or [TS]

  Android looks like an android app it's got the android style share button the [TS]

  android . and stuff like that whereas itunes famously was not a very windows [TS]

  like app at all and yet our safari yeah I believe it even had brushed metal at [TS]

  launch perhaps yeah i think it did and I used safari used the mac they it's like [TS]

  they built like a little mini version of coco into the app and yeah use that the [TS]

  max style anti-aliasing which you can get into an argument about which one is [TS]

  a better anti-aliasing algorithm right Apple's was thicker and fuzzier and [TS]

  Microsoft was more a little bit more like pixel perfect but thinner but the [TS]

  bottom line is that you just you just stick out it's a good unit you're not [TS]

  the platform host so you should you know when in Rome be like the Romans went on [TS]

  Windows render text like Windows it it's a lot like putting on a stranger's pair [TS]

  of glasses but any time I saw the microsoft anti-aliasing it i just [TS]

  couldn't even read it like it was [TS]

  that's a good way to put it right pretty words the cocoa appleone just felt so so [TS]

  much more right real print him I i should mention that by the time so far [TS]

  to pop the plug was pulled on safari for windows they had actually fixed a lot of [TS]

  that that by the time the plug was pulled they were using the windows text [TS]

  rendering I think they do weren't using [TS]

  blackbrush metal i think that you know looked a lot more like a Windows app but [TS]

  it was too late [TS]

  it was like and I never had a marketing money behind it so we're going to just [TS]

  you know so I i should mention that for anybody who actually did the hard work [TS]

  at Apple if they're listening that you know I recognize that by the end of [TS]

  safari for Windows you did fix some of those but anyway speaking of google apps [TS]

  did you see the the google motion stills app for iphone yeah you know I [TS]

  downloaded it and it didn't work [TS]

  it's really uh I must have some weird edge case where it just doesn't like my [TS]

  photo library or my phone or something it just would it would show the one of [TS]

  the live photos for a split second and then I would scroll and it would just be [TS]

  all blank so i deleted it i maybe I should try it again [TS]

  you know maybe it's me guess let me guess it's not featured in the app store [TS]

  nope not featured in the app store despite being a very cool app and I [TS]

  wonder why that is [TS]

  hmm i don't know you know one of the things that is different in the app [TS]

  store under Schiller recently is that they changed the featured apps on almost [TS]

  a daily basis whereas it used to be like a weekly thing like every Tuesday they'd [TS]

  roll out a new set of featured apps [TS]

  yeah there's a lot more emotion in that regard to ya [TS]

  interesting yeah i think other people are getting bugs too so maybe i'll wait [TS]

  for 1.1 here I'm every every downloaded it and check access my photos [TS]

  yeah and I like it'll do the first two and then it's then i'm done so i don't [TS]

  know there's some weird bug you fix it someday [TS]

  it's sounds cool though I mean I said yeah I did shoot a bunch of live photos [TS]

  at the beginning of having the 6s plus and I haven't recently but if there was [TS]

  something cool to do with them i probably would again I should live [TS]

  photos by default [TS]

  just because I've got 225 phone and it's nowhere near fold up so why not [TS]

  yeah cool [TS]

  yeah III and I turned it off for the storage reasons but I don't ever do [TS]

  anything with them though as a live photo because there's they're so hard to [TS]

  share i mean it is it's a curious thing so did the googles if anybody doesn't [TS]

  have it at Google motion stills it takes your live photos and lets you share them [TS]

  either as a video or as an animated gif which puts them into two formats that [TS]

  you can actually share on like a social network as opposed to the propriety in a [TS]

  nice a proprietary there's nothing that that a technical level is proprietary in [TS]

  the apples that the way that it stores live photos on disk it's jpg and then [TS]

  like and it at sidecar mov file like a h.264 video with that the corresponding [TS]

  video but the the way that software would know how to play a live video is [TS]

  you know you'd have to spend you have to write right you have to specifically [TS]

  backwards engineer the way Apple is doing that and so things like social [TS]

  networks like Facebook and Twitter and Instagram don't let you just natively [TS]

  post live photos in a way that if you just post a gift to Twitter everybody [TS]

  sees the animated gif so motion stills makes that possible [TS]

  pick an animated are a live photo from your library turn it into a gift and [TS]

  share or save it back to your camera roll to share [TS]

  there you go done but the second thing that it does which is really really you [TS]

  know what levels it up is that they use their super powerful image stabilization [TS]

  stuff that google has to take out the shakiness of the live photos and the [TS]

  before-and-afters on some of this is just amazing like it just you don't have [TS]

  to do any work it just identifies ok this is the subject of the photo it's [TS]

  this person the rest of this is all background so will stabilize the [TS]

  background for the entire animation and let the just let the subject move around [TS]

  and some of the before-and-afters on this or just absolutely mind-blowing but [TS]

  yeah that's it's kind of cool all the stuff Google's been doing with images [TS]

  lately [TS]

  well and I think this is pretty cool sign of sort of it because one of the [TS]

  things that I i mocked a little better took gentle fun poking at is that one [TS]

  google announced this the comments are just filled with android users upset [TS]

  that this is a Mac iOS only app instead yeah android app and then people say [TS]

  well android doesn't have live photos and somebody said that there's like one [TS]

  HTC phone that introduced the same feature under a different name a year [TS]

  ago so you need an eager to android does happen if you have this one phone out of [TS]

  the 8820 7 android phones on the market it's just kinda cool that they be will [TS]

  you know that google is willing to make like a cool little iOS app that's really [TS]

  only applicable to iOS users just to solve a problem that now that you see it [TS]

  you kind of think like why didn't apple solve this themselves you know why [TS]

  didn't apple seed that you know these live photos if if they're cool that [TS]

  people are going to want to share them on social networks so why can't they put [TS]

  it into video or gif file [TS]

  yeah and I mean maybe they will it next week but who knows but it really speaks [TS]

  of google being aware of what their business model is which is you know [TS]

  reaching all people on the planet with their services and getting them to share [TS]

  more stuff with google I gotta take a break for another sponsor but before I [TS]

  do I want to I want to just insert like a parenthetical there to rewind about [TS]

  half an hour to where we were talking about subscriptions [TS]

  do you know how to manage your subscriptions your iTunes Store [TS]

  subscriptions kind of I think you going to itunes on a mac at least that's how [TS]

  i've done it maybe and so I'm aware I'm there I'm aware of two ways you can go [TS]

  to itunes on your mac and go to the account menu and then you go to view my [TS]

  account and then you scroll down and click another thing and then you can see [TS]

  your subscriptions in there there [TS]

  kind of hidden and then on iOS you can do it on iOS too and it's even more [TS]

  hidden there where you go to settings so far so good you would expect it to be [TS]

  there [TS]

  itunes and app stores and then from there it doesn't look like there's [TS]

  anything with subscriptions but you have to do is tap on it just as Apple ID and [TS]

  there's my apple ID you tap on your Apple ID and then you get a mitt a [TS]

  dialogue that says view Apple ID sign out i forgot or cancel [TS]

  you have to save you Apple ID then you have to type your password and then if [TS]

  you scroll down there's a thing that says subscriptions and a list all your [TS]

  subscriptions [TS]

  that's good and you can do things like canceling their but I feel like that's [TS]

  hidden enough and it's good that they're all listed in a row and that there is [TS]

  there are at least you know in itunes on the mac and iOS there's a way to get see [TS]

  here's everything I subscribe to through itunes but that has to be if they're [TS]

  going to make subscriptions more of a thing that has to be easier to find [TS]

  yeah we're kind of me because I honestly think it's not just like hey you're [TS]

  doing the right thing by the user by making it easier to find [TS]

  I honestly think that making it easier to find will instill confidence in users [TS]

  that i'm not going to get in over my head [TS]

  subscribing to too many apps like in the case that more apps start using [TS]

  subscription pricing now that they're allowed to i think if users feel typical [TS]

  people just feel like I don't even remember how many apps I'm subscribe to [TS]

  its going to make them a lot let its gonna make them naturally and just [TS]

  comment it's just common sense that they'd be resistant to signing up for [TS]

  another one just wanted to throw that out there that that feature does exist [TS]

  but I think I've just asked a couple people here and they're like do you know [TS]

  how to do it most people don't know how to do it because it's hidden enough both [TS]

  on the mac and especially on on itunes our iOS alright let me take one more [TS]

  break [TS]

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  $15,000 if you go through the code that i have for you which is wealthfront calm [TS]

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  fifteen thousand dollars if you do use the code they charge an advisory feat of [TS]

  only 0.25 per cent per year and that's only on the amount above that that [TS]

  minimum so if you have a hundred-thousand-dollar account and you [TS]

  can also get a bunch of you can you get five thousand dollars more in Headroom [TS]

  for referring friends so if you have a hundred thousand dollars in your account [TS]

  and you have referred six friends to wealthfront your first forty thousand [TS]

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  case if you preferred a few people it's only 0.1 5% to get a great deal go there [TS]

  their website can tell you so much more about wil how they invest the strategies [TS]

  that use the algorithms they use the way that that they can optimize your tax [TS]

  bill and stuff like that then I can because I am NOT investment expert [TS]

  that's why you might want to sign up for a service like wealthfront so go there [TS]

  go to wealthfront dot-com / the talk show [TS]

  and check them out it really really seems like a terrific way to invest your [TS]

  money for the long term [TS]

  I what else you have to talk about what we can talk about what we expect from [TS]

  WWDC yeah what are you what's your big what do you think is going to be the [TS]

  first thing about iOS 10 they talk about I tentpole number one I don't know I [TS]

  think that AI think number why I think that they've done a heck of a job [TS]

  keeping stuff under wraps [TS]

  yeah which is kind of new almost because there were a few years were a lot of the [TS]

  big stuff was out by now [TS]

  yea even software and i've seen i mentioned that you know it on Twitter [TS]

  the other day and a couple people said well maybe that's cuz mark Gurman is [TS]

  between jobs and that's possible but I with well but he was on the j and farhad [TS]

  podcast you have the other week with Jay arrow and who's now at CNBC CNBC and [TS]

  Farhad Manjoo of the new york times I know the day when it was first announced [TS]

  that that mark was leaving 9to5 mac and it was unsaid where he was going I saw a [TS]

  whole bunch of people speculate that it was CNBC because it was blah blah blah [TS]

  he wants to be on TV and I choked I knew that was going to bloomberg so I just [TS]

  coyly guess I think people are forgetting people guessing see ya here [TS]

  forget forgetting that Bloomberg as a TV channel 2i but anyway he was on your [TS]

  show and he talked a couple of things I didn't seem like he was holding back it [TS]

  just doesn't seem like eat he knows much either but maybe he didn't dig as much [TS]

  as you would I don't know it's possible but we don't know the government said [TS]

  this I've heard this to that there is some sort of visual refresh to to iOS 10 [TS]

  not like like radical one like when we went from iOS 6 to iOS 7 but maybe more [TS]

  like when we went from Tiger to whatever 10.5 was called you know Nate the one [TS]

  where they got rid of the stripes and got rid of the brush metal and said [TS]

  here's the unified window is what all windows look like that sort of level of [TS]

  refresh so maybe the glass panels look different or something like that [TS]

  yeah and I haven't heard any details about it except i think it might be a [TS]

  little bit [TS]

  less stark like so not so much everything is either white or dark but [TS]

  maybe there's some more it just broader swath of color and it seems like [TS]

  government has heard the same thing so that's that's one does that Brett [TS]

  perhaps reflect new hardware color I don't care so i think it's more like [TS]

  just a refinement [TS]

  yeah you know that they with ios7 they I think they it's safe to say that they [TS]

  really went and just you [TS]

  pixel to pixel just shook the whole lecture sketch they really went back to [TS]

  nothing and redrew the OS and I think that it's just a refinement of that like [TS]

  lets you know this is a little too stark I think we can get a little put a little [TS]

  bit more pizzazz into the UI for lack of a better word [TS]

  I don't know then that makes sense but I've all i heard was just that all I've [TS]

  all the only thing I can base this on is just the word that there it's the UI has [TS]

  been refreshed I don't know do you think that multi multi user mode will be [TS]

  introduced broadly into iOS i think i think for ipad i think i got a great . i [TS]

  didn't have that written down [TS]

  I mean that's still the one of the biggest weaknesses of the ipad is that [TS]

  if it's designed to sit on the coffee table that it's still mostly my device [TS]

  which is problematic [TS]

  yeah and it makes it doesn't make sense that why you know why not have one [TS]

  that's there and that you know your significant other or your kid can put [TS]

  their finger on it and when they put their finger on it it unlocks with their [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  oh great so now if I only have an eight gig ipad instead of difficulty [TS]

  yeah i mean i think that would be to me that's been a no-brainer since the [TS]

  beginning is you know and especially since mac OS has supported that since [TS]

  the beginning of us 10 so I i think it's a little different with the mac because [TS]

  the max you know it's different sure and i started Mac os10 started as a [TS]

  multi-user thing but yeah you know but you know like you said it's a solved [TS]

  problem i mean--and and the solution would have to be a little bit different [TS]

  because the sandboxing and stuff like that and [TS]

  whether all apps you know like right which Apple idea owns the apps for the [TS]

  different profiles right and yeah so there's some quick yeah and I guess you [TS]

  know Apple you know that the app store is actually one of the complicating [TS]

  factors with that but you know solvable problem yeah and it also seems like [TS]

  something that ought to be solved and since they've they've shown some stuff [TS]

  in education you know where the there's these education [TS]

  I don't know how it works exactly but there's ways for schools to have these [TS]

  ipads where each student doesn't matter which ipad they use they can just log in [TS]

  and and and use them [TS]

  it seems like that that work is applicable to the consumer market do you [TS]

  think we'll see iOS app streaming on google i don't think so i but then again [TS]

  I did the google thing blew my mind [TS]

  never you know that seem too good to be true so I don't know it but it doesn't [TS]

  seem to me like iOS apps are as compartmentalised as android apps i [TS]

  forget the technical term for what you called like the little actions within a [TS]

  an app where you can just download the one little you know effectively just [TS]

  like the sheet for sharing and I don't know that apple would do that I don't [TS]

  know that Apple you know I think Apple like the idea that it's a deliberate [TS]

  action on the user to get native code running on your iPhone [TS]

  mhm I don't think Apple would I don't know that Apple Eve it's a neat [TS]

  technical trick but I don't know that Apple wants to make it that easy that [TS]

  you just tap URL and all of a sudden after it loads there's native native [TS]

  code running on your machine [TS]

  yeah I mean there's some of that with the what was it like the asset streaming [TS]

  or something [TS]

  yea big games or something like that yet [TS]

  yeah i don't know i i'm trying to think like how technically they could put [TS]

  apple pay into the to the web browser which is supposedly a thing and you know [TS]

  that is there is is the website downloading a a one-page app that [TS]

  does the payment i don't have no idea i don't know yeah I wouldn't be surprised [TS]

  if we see payment information you know maybe web payments user-to-user payments [TS]

  through my message [TS]

  you know we mentioned that when we were talking about the android I met the [TS]

  drummer I just had another one and in my head [TS]

  forget it though what else are you thinking hmm i don't know i really [TS]

  should spend more time thinking about the store stuff I it's hard because I [TS]

  feel like you know they must have a lot I mean and yeah i mean that's actually [TS]

  what chiller told me on the record was we have so much for the keynote already [TS]

  that we wanted to get some of this out of we [TS]

  that we wanted to get some of this out of we [TS]

  can advance you know and and you know that the devil's advocate take on that [TS]

  is that they knew that some of the stuff might be a little controversial like the [TS]

  ads and search [TS]

  I don't think subscription pricing is controversial but it's certainly [TS]

  something to talk about and maybe they just don't want people talking about [TS]

  that they want people talking about these other more feature oriented things [TS]

  right so that I too but that stuff their money so that I'm sure they're gonna [TS]

  talk about the serious stuff right [TS]

  no thanks we had a sense that that's happening right and government said I've [TS]

  had the question of well okay so there's gonna be an API for Syria but where [TS]

  where does that go it you know and Germans thing was that it you know and [TS]

  this makes sense it's the easiest way to I think to do it is that it would be [TS]

  part of the ios app you know that you'd your your you know your app an app for [TS]

  the iphone could have a component that is a serious tension like in the same [TS]

  way that when you have a a third-party keyboard [TS]

  how do you install third-party keyboard it's an app there's an app that it you [TS]

  know has the extension well so there might be an easy answer to this which is [TS]

  something that I thought of a while ago and and have now successfully failed [TS]

  that reporting out but how does it work on the appletv how does netflix [TS]

  integrate its library into serie because it has so how does that work [TS]

  do we know how it works technically I think so far it's a partner my partner [TS]

  basis but hot technically how does it work are the is there a database they're [TS]

  exposing yeah much does their app have an extension into the apple tv's serie [TS]

  you know if you deleted the netflix app but it not search [TS]

  I don't think we're not search through series on netflix ya wouldn search [TS]

  there's it must be or I don't know if if the extension is in the app or if it's [TS]

  just that the extension is in the US but it knows if Netflix is installed don't [TS]

  bother looking right so that might be a model of how it works on the phone but i [TS]

  don't know i get the feeling I don't I in it i just have it's just a hunch I [TS]

  don't know that the series stuff it either either the Syria extensions are [TS]

  more robust than I'm able to imagine or or there's more Syrian news than just [TS]

  the extensions like I just like in again this isn't like somebody told me you [TS]

  know hey there's a whole bunch of serious stuff in the keynote nobody just [TS]

  told me a damn thing about what's in the keynote but like my just spidey sense is [TS]

  that it's series going to get a big chunk of it i just sort of 11 that's [TS]

  where the industry is going right there's actually there's so much going [TS]

  on industry-wide with these AI voice assistance and Apple really was the [TS]

  first to bring it to the consumer market that they that i would like to think [TS]

  they almost have to have had a lot of stuff that they've been working on for a [TS]

  while and that they're gonna want to show now [TS]

  yeah I think so [TS]

  like I just think that there's there there too invested in it and i think [TS]

  that they truly believe it I really do [TS]

  I mean that they still you know put Siri in the commercials and stuff like that [TS]

  so I would expect a lot of Syria mean why why wouldn't I if if they already [TS]

  have the the foundation for it and other companies are picking up and running [TS]

  with the ball then why why wouldn't they try to be the best see it seems like [TS]

  that would make sense unless they've seen something that they no longer [TS]

  believe in it but it [TS]

  yeah I don't think they totally believe in it so i would hope that they have a [TS]

  lot to show including hopefully things that Amazon and Google haven't thought [TS]

  of yet [TS]

  yeah yeah and you know so we'll see i don't know [TS]

  so that's part of it the watch I definitely expect watch 3 . o to be [TS]

  announced [TS]

  yeah and i realize i think that there's an awful lot riding on much improved [TS]

  watch hardware which I would very much not expect to see until September but [TS]

  however much improvement they can do in the hardware I there's two you know it's [TS]

  it's too [TS]

  art too much part of the Apple brand that you know your everybody has an [TS]

  Apple watch it's still a new watch right like even if you bought one on day one [TS]

  it's like it it given the shipping delays they had used it still may not [TS]

  have even been in your hands for a year right i mean NEVER people who didn't get [TS]

  there they're watch order to day one until June last year so everybody's [TS]

  watch that they already own is relatively new so there it you know the [TS]

  new version of watch OS has to be applicable to the existing Apple watch [TS]

  again and my guess is now that they have a year's worth of usage lessons and you [TS]

  know that the reality of the app platform which is that it's kind of a [TS]

  failure and probably have had time to study how people use use the device that [TS]

  they majorly rethink the the paradigm of how apps and glances work and right and [TS]

  even like the the homescreen complications I mean that was something [TS]

  that even whatever last fall i thought would be a big thing in that there'll be [TS]

  all kinds of cool complications that i'd be able to add and there's art yeah [TS]

  there's a cool there's a sponsor for daring fireball last week was just a [TS]

  small indie app called streaks [TS]

  oh yeah streaks and I really really blew me away about how clever it wasn't had [TS]

  it has a really great complication where it's like the idea is streaks is a think [TS]

  it streaks so I mean they sponsored to say they respond to the [TS]

  podcast but I'll give it a shot because it's really really good i really think [TS]

  people it is good i will bug and it really really well designed the [TS]

  complication is really cool too but the idea is that with streaks it's like a [TS]

  way to kind of build daily habits so like a walk two and a half miles [TS]

  everyday take your vitamins you know this is say those are two things you [TS]

  want to do so the complication shows up as two dots and when you completed each [TS]

  day the dot goes from like light grey to white so that you know that you do it [TS]

  and then you can you know just keep track of it and if you have like six of [TS]

  them it just arranging some sort of like the dots on it on a die it's really cool [TS]

  very simple and a route to me a really clever used it's one of the few clever [TS]

  uses of a complication of Cena [TS]

  they're pretty [TS]

  have you seen the courts app complication [TS]

  no court so my my former employer courts had a a kind of a neat messaging based [TS]

  news app that they launched earlier this year and the watch complication is a [TS]

  just an emoji that that is a reaction to the stock market so it's a I forgot you [TS]

  know what the threshold was but at some point it's the monkey with his hands [TS]

  over his face if it's like really doing poorly or it's doing great its you know [TS]

  something that shows some sort of ecstatic reaction it was cool [TS]

  it's funny that actually pretty funny yeah I let my kids are very creative [TS]

  over there course yet to me that's the sort of thing that I think they need to [TS]

  improve because I feel like a year in the things that the watch i have lots of [TS]

  complaints i really need to write up a detailed view of it but at this point my [TS]

  way to see what they have in three-point oh yeah but I feel like just talking [TS]

  about two people notifications are real thing and people like getting [TS]

  notifications on her watch and people like being able to react you know deal [TS]

  with notifications in some way from the watch and status updates right like dark [TS]

  skies a pretty cool thing on the watch and getting an alert on your watch that [TS]

  hey it's going to rain in six minutes is useful so that's like a combination of [TS]

  two things the watch is pretty useful for status status is the actual weather [TS]

  is about the change you know and the status of the stock market the status [TS]

  the temperature outside right and then the notification is actually useful to [TS]

  like notification status and and the fitness tracking and health tracking [TS]

  absolutely is a popular feature and I don't know that the watch presented the [TS]

  best way but it it's a success story for the watch and a lot of the other stuff [TS]

  that really wasn't the message they gave us a year ago right and you know I don't [TS]

  know if they knew I don't think so [TS]

  write another one and I i would assume that they would show it off during WWDC [TS]

  because it would probably be part of iOS 10 would be my you know my i would say [TS]

  my number-one request would be a more robust health app yeah now i have a [TS]

  year's worth [TS]

  of data on here and yes that screen with the the little loops on it was fun the [TS]

  first few times I looked at it but there's probably a lot more you can tell [TS]

  me about trends or ya know hey hey hey fat-ass you know you don't exercise on [TS]

  the weekends enough [TS]

  what's wrong with you know that kind of stuff and I'd love to see a better [TS]

  health app and I i would guess that based on that you know what you hear [TS]

  about the teams that they have their that there's something coming for that [TS]

  right it's almost to me like a data visualization design problem not even [TS]

  almost that's what it is it's okay so because of the watch [TS]

  you've collected all of this information over a year of time but you're not [TS]

  showing it to me in any way that that gives me any kind of a trend or a story [TS]

  or a sense of myself and I feel like that that that's something to watch [TS]

  could do and should do [TS]

  yep and actually it looks like it has been updated a little because now I can [TS]

  see workout stuff you know I I don't have a reason to go to this app every [TS]

  day and I really should [TS]

  why not you know them I'm tracking this data every day I should probably be [TS]

  reviewing reviewing it and and gaining some axis of knowledge from it [TS]

  this is something that I think jaw bone tried to do and it's you know the trends [TS]

  that would notice where were very kind of not really revelatory so I this was [TS]

  before Apple watch I never really stuck with the the jaw bone system but I would [TS]

  really hope that there's a lot more that Apple's going to do here i really hope [TS]

  so too so i'm very interested to see the watch related announcements i would buy [TS]

  again this is a pure bat I'm not cheating nobody told me anything but i [TS]

  would definitely bet money on a nice chunk of the keynote going to watch [TS]

  yeah that makes sense since that is one of the 3i guess for major platforms now [TS]

  assume there'll be some acts tough but yeah we not too much I think that's what [TS]

  I think too but i would love to be surprised i know that the siri coming to [TS]

  to Mac but that to me sounds like [TS]

  it's just integrating voice search with spotlight search you know and I just see [TS]

  it almost seems overdo it seems like if my phone can do Syria why can't my mac [TS]

  yeah maybe some TV OS stuff too [TS]

  I wonder about that I honestly do it it's it also maybe seem so new that [TS]

  maybe there isn't a time to add to it [TS]

  yeah may I you know I can't allow that could be hardware dependent yeah I can't [TS]

  see them not mention excuse me can see them not mentioning it but I I mm I [TS]

  don't know would be cool though I but i'm not going to have new hardware so I [TS]

  feel like they're kind of limited to what they can [TS]

  what they can do I wouldn't be surprised to see something globally about [TS]

  notifications just because that's such an important part of the user interface [TS]

  now and maybe that's the kind of thing where they've done a lot of work on all [TS]

  the platforms to know did you know for last year they they've let you organize [TS]

  them better that's been nice but I think there's still a ton more they could do [TS]

  there [TS]

  it's really revealed itself as a you know one of the most important user [TS]

  interfaces in mobile so yeah I bet there's I bet there's something coming [TS]

  there i would assume I don't know [TS]

  ah one of the changes this year because they're having the keynote at the build [TS]

  bill graham civic auditorium and they sent out invitations differently they [TS]

  don't do like a theme anymore there's no slogan or anything like that so like the [TS]

  guessing game where people would just try to backwards engineer from the [TS]

  slogan they gave ya and the decoration to it well here's what they must mean [TS]

  they don't have that anymore [TS]

  no did you see the photos though someone installing it [TS]

  what looked like air-conditioning yes attempt attempt I i watch the i/o thing [TS]

  a few like a week later and I you know it's like the whole thing is outside [TS]

  really that's a crazy and it seemed like they really got 44 the valley from [TS]

  mountain view they really got bad way [TS]

  there it was a fun seasonably hot huh yeah for a lot of sunburns yeah [TS]

  macrumors have some pictures of the bill graham civic auditorium they put an [TS]

  apple logo up front and center that kind of makes it look like the whole thing is [TS]

  about a gigantic apple stores but it's just an apple logo and then they put a [TS]

  six colored flags out in front which looks pretty cool because then nice [TS]

  little homage to the old apple logo [TS]

  oh cool but no clues no slogans nothing like that so there's nothing to go on [TS]

  yeah yeah and you know you've got to imagine they'll also spend some time by [TS]

  talking about the new Apple music I and and maybe so maybe this one will get a [TS]

  redesigned itunes for mac i think maybe i don't think it's gonna I don't think [TS]

  there's ever going to be a major rewrite of itunes for mac yeah but i feel like [TS]

  it so far they're at their attempt to declutter it have been not so great [TS]

  something's gonna gotta replace that connect tab [TS]

  yeah I wonder though because the update that did recently ship change some of [TS]

  the forget that what's the version numbers at eleven . twelve about 11 or [TS]

  12 . for so 1.6 they did change some stuff in terms of bringing back a [TS]

  sidebar and making them put a little pop-up menu there for switching between [TS]

  the TV and movie and music and stuff like that but boy I hope so i don't know [TS]

  but i think that Apple music for iOS and Android is definitely I mean this is a [TS]

  bunch of rumors up to this front but that you know definitely going to get a [TS]

  simplification because it just seems like it's Universal that people are [TS]

  confused by how it works [TS]

  yeah what else they might have to change i don't know and and I've said this [TS]

  before but i really do mean it like as a just as a canary in the coal mine i [TS]

  found the the Apple music presentation last year to be alarming because a sign [TS]

  of Apple [TS]

  losing its way at post steve jobs and again I think I my reputation is [TS]

  somebody who doesn't throw about this wouldn't have happened if steve jobs are [TS]

  still around like I don't over you I don't hit that button very frequently [TS]

  but that music presentation land last year's WWDC keynote I hit that button [TS]

  like that that would not have happened like that of steve jobs are still around [TS]

  it wouldn't have gone on so long it would have been meandering it wouldn't [TS]

  have seemed under-rehearsed and it would have been more focused so i'm very [TS]

  interested to see if if they solve that problem this year because otherwise it [TS]

  seems to me that there's some kind of communication problem within a company [TS]

  that there's this division that it can't communicate itself clearly yeah that was [TS]

  weird [TS]

  are you coming you're coming right i am now i'll be there for about 24 hours or [TS]

  a little longer than that but i have to leave monday almost right after the [TS]

  keynote to jump to a company meeting that all right we talked about this [TS]

  because I invited you to come to the live episode of of the talk show but [TS]

  that is until tuesday now I won't be there [TS]

  unfortunately I'm guys here we got saturday sunday monday to four so four [TS]

  days from now I'll be doing a live talk show can't even imagine who's going to [TS]

  be the guest this time working on it [TS]

  yeah that's fucked up mondeo Alaska so I asked but actually i think this is the [TS]

  first time you've booked me this far in advance I did I've trying to do this i'm [TS]

  trying to book people further in advance because good it's trying to train you [TS]

  know I've been on a pretty weekly schedule 2 i'm and they've been great [TS]

  I've really enjoyed the shows recently what I'll say is that one of these years [TS]

  the live episode of the talk show is going to have a disappointing guests [TS]

  because the last year by having phil schiller the bar clearly got raised [TS]

  can't get raised my tire though and you better have Elon Musk alright Jeff Bezos [TS]

  all my money back right so I'll say is that one of these years i'm going to the [TS]

  very special guest is going to be mulch nice and it might be this year [TS]

  well laugh we'll have to see on tuesday [TS]

  that'd be awesome [TS]

  anything i wanted to talk about um no I can't think of anything you know what i [TS]

  will say that the reviewers blew it [TS]

  the new 12-inch MacBook is a huge improvement over the previous one and I [TS]

  love mine that's interesting what do you think that they blew was it that just [TS]

  the overall that the consensus i got from the review i have not used 12 [TS]

  consensus i got was i can't believe this is the improvement and that was my first [TS]

  reaction to when I saw that it's only fifteen percent faster but whatever it [TS]

  is that fifteen percent is the difference between waiting for the [TS]

  computer every single time I wanted to do anything and feeling like okay this [TS]

  computer is as fast enough to you know it is as fast as my brain [TS]

  well still a little slower than then I'd like it and there you know it still [TS]

  chokes on things like chrome and google maps and random stuff and all the do [TS]

  twitter for mac app don't even get me started on that but i use it you know as [TS]

  my secondary computer most of the month and then the the week that i'm in san [TS]

  francisco every month it's my main computer and its way is its way [TS]

  noticeably faster than last years and is a great computer a really excellent [TS]

  computer especially if you travel and I'm very happy with it [TS]

  I wish you were a little faster and you know it's still kind of on the expensive [TS]

  side and I definitely to get good battery life out of it much better this [TS]

  time than last time although i switched back to Chrome from safari which hurts [TS]

  battery wise but i've also been just keeping it plugged in on the plane so [TS]

  that hasn't really been too much of an issue but him [TS]

  the battery's fine i'm not worried about the battery i bought a couple of these [TS]

  little USB hub hdmi fingers and they kind of help [TS]

  plugging other stuff in one necessary but it's great amazing computer if there [TS]

  were 14 inch 1i probably get that is that I get the feeling that you know [TS]

  like with the talk to people at Apple about the why [TS]

  and.and they won't say anything but they not their head in a yeah well you know [TS]

  this is our first attempt where we're learning a lot and you get the sense [TS]

  that the next watch will be will show that they've learned a lot when you [TS]

  complain to people at Apple about the macbook one as it's called they shake [TS]

  their head and it's like no this is the future laptops like it will get faster [TS]

  time will take all that needs time and but but in terms of you know complaints [TS]

  about the keyboard or complaints like nobody needs device then they should [TS]

  have made the battery thicker at citrus and none they know thinner depth dinner [TS]

  and then report and ports are antiquated do not need the ports right and dumped [TS]

  it there too [TS]

  there's a confidence from apple that this product is it and I get to me it [TS]

  exactly echoes the original macbook air [TS]

  yeah the original macbook air the one that Jobs took out of the envelope was [TS]

  like I said it was like 65 like 64 gig hard drive and the OS was like the 30 [TS]

  gig I mean it any I was running on like an ipod hard drive or something you know [TS]

  it was SSD that's why it was so small it was like and I was it was spinning home [TS]

  was it [TS]

  yeah I don't wasn't SSD until later I'll report you know what no no you could buy [TS]

  an SSD but then it was like three grand or something like that [TS]

  yeah it's crazy it was super expensive but that they and everybody was like [TS]

  well it's ridiculous it's way too thin [TS]

  I want a big fat battery and they were like no don't know we've got we've got [TS]

  this we just need time you know time will solve the price inside time will [TS]

  solve the speed and time will increase the SSD size and they were right and I [TS]

  think that's just the same story all over again so maybe the macbook isn't [TS]

  right for everybody [TS]

  yet in 2016 definitely wasn't right for everybody a year ago but you know did [TS]

  there [TS]

  they're convinced that that's the future so I'm not surprised to hear that you [TS]

  like no I really like it and I I can't reiterate like that upgrade I was very [TS]

  skeptical and obviously that you know I wanted to be faster and i guess i should [TS]

  clarify i got the whatever the 512 gig version with the slightly faster cpu it [TS]

  but not the fastest one because now like just too expensive but personally I [TS]

  don't have a [TS]

  I still have a 13 year old or young or old Mac 13-inch macbook pro I but I use [TS]

  my macbook pro so much less now that i have an imac at my desk that I only use [TS]

  it for traveling that by the time I do get a new machine i think i'll probably [TS]

  get the macbook instead of a macbook pro because I revival it's it's great and by [TS]

  the way so the first macbook air head a 80 gig 1.8 inch hard drive or you could [TS]

  get an optional upgrade to a 64k solid-state that's it that's all we were [TS]

  both right [TS]

  yeah so I i only saw the appeal and ssds so that's why I thought 64 but I think [TS]

  isn't it great that the upgrade its lost you 16 gigabytes because it was going to [TS]

  SSD was already 1,800 bucks so I act then you could imagine how much more [TS]

  that SSD would it cost to i I've still been using the the 12 inch toward you [TS]

  know that are small size air ipad pro the review unit here i have from apple [TS]

  and I've still been using it as much as I can but for having a in its to me [TS]

  roughly comparable to that macbook air i find that the elegance of just put it on [TS]

  the desk and just flip up the lid to be so elegant and the way that I want like [TS]

  a little laptop type thing on the desk and that the little flippy cover and [TS]

  make a little tent and bend the thing around like every time I have to set up [TS]

  the the ipad as a laptop thing i just think i $FULLPHONENUM i'd rather have a [TS]

  macbook yeah I also i'm not a fan of that aspect ratio for something that [TS]

  size just feels too tall [TS]

  I don't know no but I i I'm still very tied to the mac for productivity i'm [TS]

  still the flipping between for apps and get me 17 chrome tabs so yeah I'm too [TS]

  good at it it's it's yeah alright totally understand why other people who [TS]

  never really got good at the mac like you know if all you ever did on your mac [TS]

  is just open up a bunch of chrome tabs or Safari tabs then switching to iOS is [TS]

  totally doable right we it you know but I use apps you know it's like I used so [TS]

  many native apps and then and I'm good at switching between them [TS]

  yeah alright your home base is a tree code . com or the other general Rico [TS]

  dotnet because that net rico . nighttime yeah someday we'll get recom maybe not [TS]

  though every code that will just type recode and it'll help complete because [TS]

  you've already got in your history and you're doing great work there is a great [TS]

  staff and on Twitter people can enjoy your your musings at from dome FR om e [TS]

  do Emmy and and you're very good follow and a longtime friend and guests on the [TS]

  talk show and I appreciate it hope I see you Monday morning [TS]

  yeah thank you talk to them [TS]