The Talk Show

164: ‘Enjoyably Clicky’, With Special Guest Jason Snell


  I got really excited when i bought a you know mechanical keyboard and i'm really [TS]

  loving it it's this weird korean i guess they call a 60-percent keyboard so it's [TS]

  got no function row but it's super small and it's very cliquey and i really like [TS]

  it haha now I can get rid of this other keyboard and I realize I have to keep [TS]

  the other keyboard like within arm's reach because I can't [TS]

  what type what brand talk what brand keyboard is it it's a [TS]

  Leopold sending them on ebay really that you can direct they like used or no [TS]

  they're all they're all new that's just how they sell yeah they've got a [TS]

  different they got a different like mechanisms there are a couple different [TS]

  mechanisms of you know like the different key switches m- a like a [TS]

  cherry blue but i'll send you link i got him i got it here Kansas City [TS]

  yeah yeah and it's the FCC 660m is the one that I've got and i love it because [TS]

  it's so tiny and it's it's really enjoyable e clicky I got my tyas small [TS]

  keyboard too and it's not bad but it's it's way bigger like the whole thing got [TS]

  its got another row of keys and it's got the only problem with this one is you [TS]

  got a map some of the keys because it's missing it's missing a few keys but the [TS]

  but the arrow keys are like properly oriented as arrows and and it's nice and [TS]

  cliquey and I started buying keycaps so you got blue cherry what wait what do [TS]

  you mean keycaps today the wise company sell the official ones i know so i ended [TS]

  up on ebay there are few places including um I ended up with that oh [TS]

  what is it that the people that make the code keyboard they have they have a [TS]

  whole like they have a khaki cap should shop we can order custom keycaps because [TS]

  the 1i got came with like black key caps and therefore windows keys and i ended [TS]

  up spending probably way too much money on some like orange custom keycaps um [TS]

  which is kind of cool i blame Joshua Topolsky he posted a couple of pictures [TS]

  of this model keyboard that he's built and I I said move that's really [TS]

  interesting in that was then i was i was kind of ruined but but it's terrible for [TS]

  podcasting because the clicks clicks are very loud there's the one that this [TS]

  picture i'm looking at of this keyboard on the left side at the bottom bottom [TS]

  left corner there's a ctrl key and then there's think there's like a keyboard [TS]

  key it's a picture that has a what is that [TS]

  yeah I think that's the operating system key so that's like your your command key [TS]

  or your windows key it's like the wealthy and then use an endless logo and [TS]

  then I'm apt yeah I mapped it all 22 Maxo actually flip the keys around so [TS]

  that's my option key so what is cherry blue feel like I this is the thing that [TS]

  confuses me and I i have i have a collection of Apple extended tues and I [TS]

  viewing i'm using my third one of my lifetime right now including one forgets [TS]

  who sent me the one that was that meant i still have 1i have one that is [TS]

  literally strike sealed mint in there in the box which I'm saving you know and [TS]

  the 1 i'm using now was like truly near-mint when i started using it [TS]

  I've tried other mechanical keyboards but i I've never found that I really [TS]

  like and and it doesn't have the same feeling I get so confused by this the [TS]

  different switches and it's it's very confusing to me honestly when I i was [TS]

  shopping for this I went to Matthias is website and they have a they have audio [TS]

  clips of a few different key a mechanical key switches that you can [TS]

  actually sort of listen to the sound of them being made like just typing and I [TS]

  listened to that for a while and and i thought that that the cherry blue sort [TS]

  of sounded like I want like I wanted it and it's not all sound right it's it's [TS]

  like it's like taste it's it's eat when you need something you you're tasting [TS]

  but you're also smelling it and those two things go together [TS]

  keyboards it's like that it's the feel and it's the sound and they go together [TS]

  and like i said i end up with amitayus one at which is supposed to be more like [TS]

  the Apple extended I think and then and I got this one which is the cherry blue [TS]

  and I like the cherry blue better [TS]

  I'm intimate is fine i like it it's a it's a little more [TS]

  of what I'm what might at least my sense memory of those old Apple keyboards was [TS]

  which is a little more kinda like clunk clunk clunk clunk and this is a little [TS]

  more clicking a like high-pitched click click click click I got you I got you I [TS]

  say I think I don't like that so yours is maybe a little bit more like the IBM [TS]

  style i know the IBM following spring is different that the buckling spring yeah [TS]

  a different that like rich single uses uses that style i believe and he's like [TS]

  that's it you know sort of whatever mechanical keyboard you grew up with i [TS]

  think is the one you end up gravitating toward I wish there was a place i'm sure [TS]

  there is i'm sure like keyboard people get together and have little key parties [TS]

  where hey have a type on the different mechanisms and you can really get a [TS]

  sense of it but I just sort of slowly slowly learning about about the [TS]

  different different ones but I've been you know I've been happy with its been [TS]

  iight i didn't use a mechanical keyboard for a long time I was just sort of using [TS]

  its analogues of the of the macbook keyboard because I you know was using a [TS]

  macbook is a primary system so i kind of wanted my my keyboards to all match and [TS]

  feel as much as possible but now that I'm sitting in imac for a lot of the day [TS]

  I thought why don't I give it a try and I've been pretty happy with it is it's [TS]

  good that i'm working in a in a closed office with nobody in it because it [TS]

  would drive everybody else crazy if ya hear me typing if if the chair if the [TS]

  blue cherry switches are what I think that they're like I that more quickly [TS]

  than funky then that's actually to me it's more and that's maybe it's just my [TS]

  ears but it's a bit louder or more prominent yeah I i think it might I [TS]

  think it might be I depends on what frequencies you're tuned into that but I [TS]

  do enjoy going back to that due to having that tactile feedback as much as [TS]

  I loved the macbook keyboard style i totally get now that I've been back on a [TS]

  mechanical keyboard for a while I totally get why people criticize them [TS]

  for feeling mushy I get what that means now so there's blue cherry and brown [TS]

  cherry there's multiple different kind of care and rarest wishes yeah yeah I [TS]

  know and I have no idea i'm not i'm not an expert i just kind of shot in the [TS]

  dark and it's of them truly we're shopping on the Internet is the worst [TS]

  like this is the sort of thing where like in the old you want to buy ten [TS]

  keyboards [TS]

  I don't and I am and I hate sending stuff back [TS]

  it's just like and it's irrational it makes no logical sense whatsoever that I [TS]

  would rather just have a hundred and ten dollar keyboard that i put the closet [TS]

  never used but I just hate sending stuff back [TS]

  I don't like it but I just said a keyboard back and I didn't love it but I [TS]

  it was I tried that a mechanic people for the ipad the razor and it just [TS]

  wasn't that good huh [TS]

  and so I i did go through the rigmarole ascending that because i was a pretty [TS]

  pricey thing but I hate doing it too and so you end up a lot of times not buying [TS]

  things it's just like it's too complicated i don't know what to pick [TS]

  and so I'll just kind of give it up but I took a shot in the dark with this one [TS]

  and I'm i'm pretty happy with it it is it the best keyboard for me maybe not [TS]

  there may be some other one out there that's totally you know what i would [TS]

  prefer to this but i haven't gone and and and bought five different key ports [TS]

  yet anyway I i have also i have bought some i think at least two keyboards from [TS]

  matt is over the years and specifically build by Matthias is being for [TS]

  aficionados of the Apple extended keyboard too and i have to say that I [TS]

  didn't even think it was close it it for whatever reason the Mateus ones don't [TS]

  appeal to me [TS]

  I'm so picky about these keyboards that I don't even like some apple extended [TS]

  keyboard tues even if you want it seemingly in good condition that there's [TS]

  variance between them that I i detect that it's some of them right idea [TS]

  it's like a like the one that I had from college and I think I've told this story [TS]

  before I loved this keyboard i should see I is somebody once said that they [TS]

  could fix it somebody knows how to solder could probably fix its the e key [TS]

  that broke which is probably because it's the 1i type the most right makes [TS]

  enter my sophomore year of college I was playing a John Madden football in the [TS]

  dorms and there was aa see it was so it would've been Mike Madden 92 and I was [TS]

  always the Houston Oilers with the who was the great quarterback that the [TS]

  Houston oil or moon [TS]

  yes Warren Moon warren moon [TS]

  with a canon of an arm I mean like it was like a skin like that the stats for [TS]

  like up to 15 it was like 15 distance 1515 arm strength 15 accuracy and this [TS]

  other kid [TS]

  his name is Jeff we've always played with the Philadelphia Eagles the Buddy [TS]

  Ryan Eagles so is me with my pass happy long bombs and him with these like [TS]

  bone-crushing defensive guys and we had a great rivalry and one time we bet I [TS]

  think I bet 50 bucks cash up against his apple extended keyboard too because i [TS]

  had a mac LLC which came with the real shit keyboard [TS]

  I don't even know what it was small and mushy and he got the mac ac30 which came [TS]

  with the extended keyboard too so the deal was it was a winner-takes-all one [TS]

  game of madden football where if i want i got his keyboard and I'd give him my [TS]

  crappy one so we don't have a keyboard and i think i think i put up 50 bucks [TS]

  cash which I knew was a good deal because they sold for like a hundred [TS]

  eighty dollars to get one knew I and i won the game and that's where i got my [TS]

  keyboard and it was the best one I've ever used [TS]

  I still feel like I still take it out of the closet sometimes and type on it and [TS]

  I still feel like you know this other than that iki that busted it still feels [TS]

  better I should find somebody who can just fix that leaky for me [TS]

  you should and there may be a keyboard out there that that is a closer match [TS]

  for what you're looking for then the matter is I don't know [TS]

  yeah w it's wasd keyboards is where i got my key caps and they sell I think [TS]

  they make the code keyboard and they sell they sell mechanical keyboards and [TS]

  it's like literally choose your size and choose which switch type but again you [TS]

  know you can't reach through the screen and feel how the the keys that they have [TS]

  audio files i think that is too but it's not quite the same because that's only [TS]

  one [TS]

  the sound is part of it and the feelings part of it the only the only reason I [TS]

  don't go I never do like a real deep dive and try to find a new keyboard is [TS]

  it once I try and I do have a couple I've spent probably pattern [TS]

  a couple hundred bucks on keyboards and curiosity and then I think to myself why [TS]

  am I doing this [TS]

  I the apples my Apple extended keyboard to is the best keyboard I've ever had it [TS]

  works perfectly on my boy if it works that's the thing so i've got i don't [TS]

  know why i do it i don't know why I I don't know why I've got an extended here [TS]

  in my in my office and I've got a couple of the u.s. batb converters and I don't [TS]

  know whether it's that the keyboard is bad or whether it's the converter is bad [TS]

  that i have a problem where I or is it that i type too fast because I i find [TS]

  that it it drops key drops characters and maybe and maybe with your [TS]

  extraordinary typing skills maybe I've every once in awhile i've i've noticed [TS]

  some weird things there is a thing I got panicked where there was one key like a [TS]

  couple months ago I think it was like tea and at every it was like and it was [TS]

  like an insidious typo [TS]

  where would I would be just be typing and every time like maybe once out of [TS]

  every hundred times i typed a TI get like three T's ofc that that's it i've [TS]

  seen that a and it's it is something you know combined with like my slightly [TS]

  worse vision and it's just like a couple of teams together like in the word [TS]

  little it's like an extra 3 t's it's like it would just slip through [TS]

  Instagram and I got real panic because i thought this is definitely like it's not [TS]

  me holding the key down too far and it's always like the letter T so I knew it [TS]

  must be like electrical but then it just went away solved itself pics yeah yeah [TS]

  dad that's my concerns and I've seen it is that is that you're gonna end up [TS]

  you're gonna end up without with a problem with the hardware or with the [TS]

  mean presumably there are still thousands of USB atb adapters out there [TS]

  that are sitting 14 of the jacket on ebay or something but that's my fear is [TS]

  that something's gonna break down either the keyboards or the or the adapters or [TS]

  something in the system that changes and that you're gonna then you're going to [TS]

  need to find a replacement it's great i mean honestly how great is it that [TS]

  you're using these keyboards that are 25 years old and and huge to the things i [TS]

  like that i like the smaller keyboard because I like to have my [TS]

  my-my like trackpad as close to the the keys as possible so i don't like have a [TS]

  number pad or anything like that so I always preferred and then goes back to [TS]

  having an SE I had the SEC which had the smaller keyboard it was still clicky but [TS]

  it wasn't fully extended it was like a little mini one with the power like the [TS]

  horizontal power button at the top and I think that sort of set me down let me [TS]

  down that path but you know I i don't know i think you may have to go on a [TS]

  quest one day but as long as it's working for you that's thatthat's its [TS]

  kind of brilliant that you've got you know that old tech still I'm still on [TS]

  the first at my first-ever Griffin adb it was called the I'm eight and it was I [TS]

  got to do with those hear it it's but bondi blue bondi boo whatever that [TS]

  whenever right well did you know they had plastic everybody was making blue [TS]

  plastic things in 1987 but it's funny because the only thing you'd ever want [TS]

  it's like it's funny that they made the adapter in the trendy 2001 Apple you [TS]

  know clear plastic colors when the only thing you could possibly want to plug [TS]

  into it was gonna be the classic page [TS]

  everything was your age yeah but how did he add coolness to an atb adapter here [TS]

  is clear plastic do you remember the Apple extended keyboard one the original [TS]

  it was it was very similar to the extended keyboard too but it was [TS]

  short-lived [TS]

  not sure why it didn't go up and down it was like that up but it was also as a [TS]

  little bit bigger I think even down the extended keyboard too and it had a [TS]

  definite different feel to the keys was more i would say more clack II was [TS]

  louder and a little bit more clocky my all my early apple keyboard experiences [TS]

  where my college newspaper so that would have been like 9d 1990 era and and so it [TS]

  really would have been like what keyboards did we have there because we [TS]

  had a good board attached to a to CX and we had a bunch of keyboards on the BSE [TS]

  is that we used and then later we gotta to FX and so that's I probably had some [TS]

  that had the extended the to FX would come with the extended keyboard too but [TS]

  i'll bet i bet that you're I bet you if you saw one you'd be like oh yeah I [TS]

  remember that it was like just slightly different probably I you know other [TS]

  keyboard i loved I loved the the keyboard came with the [TS]

  Apple 2 GS remember that keyboard i never had 1i had a friend who had it two [TS]

  Gs so I vaguely remember it but not that well if you have let's see if there's a [TS]

  DB that was the ggs had a BB that was the other computer that wasn't a mac [TS]

  that had the adb plug on it was the two gs yet that that's actually a lot like [TS]

  that that early the sec keyboard that I had that big the wide power button at [TS]

  the very top yep [TS]

  yeah well you had to restart positions for a lot it's true it's true yeah it's [TS]

  a was I don't know it's very easy to write your own program that completely [TS]

  wedged the machine [TS]

  oh man there's a good keyboard and had like the weirdest keycaps I've ever seen [TS]

  where they were sort of like at it's you just put a picture in the show notes I [TS]

  swear to god yeah but if it's just the weirdest keycaps where they weren't [TS]

  really they were like squares but then on top of the squares were like like [TS]

  round Rex yeah right it's like duck two-tier keycaps i love keyboards [TS]

  you know what i'll tell you what i was thinking about this too is the moment [TS]

  when you were going to be on the show I was think about keyboards but I was just [TS]

  saying I know you're a baseball fan and sometimes when a baseball fan is on it [TS]

  will try to have a conversation that will be of of interest even all of the [TS]

  stop don't skip don't skip yea even to all of you don't like baseball just sort [TS]

  of for me a sort of melancholy week with alex rodriguez as getting dumped from [TS]

  the Yankees I gradually record on Thursday will be playing tonight in [TS]

  Boston and then tomorrow night he's playing in New York and then that then [TS]

  that's it he's going home except and combine it just is interesting to me [TS]

  that you know he's 41 years old he's at a very contentious really up-and-down [TS]

  career with is his controversies over the performance enhancing drugs and the [TS]

  same week [TS]

  Ichiro Suzuki is now playing for the Florida Marlins got his 3000 hit major [TS]

  league baseball and ichiro is to me a guy who if if you could just like shows [TS]

  put some video clips together and and talk about it is that player that would [TS]

  be of [TS]

  interesting into non-sports fans because he's like he's like he's seriously is [TS]

  like a it's like an alien [TS]

  he's he's like 'i you know is it is it's like a creature who was just born to [TS]

  play baseball but he doesn't play like anybody else [TS]

  well it's like the what was it uh the back in the 19th century there was a [TS]

  player named wee Willy Keeler and I believe he was the one who famously said [TS]

  I hit them where they ain't ya [TS]

  the idea is that like they're like how are you such a great hitter and he says [TS]

  well I hit the ball where the other where the fields aren't and that's it [TS]

  like it's so simple and yet when you look at zero and I think Tony Gwynn was [TS]

  kind of like this to it is there in a century of baseball players you get a [TS]

  couple of people who is like somehow this guy can use that stick to put that [TS]

  ball that's coming at him at a hundred miles an hour [TS]

  wherever he wants it and that's just unbelievable i read it i was just read a [TS]

  story the other day was actually in response to somehow like from one link [TS]

  to another and Twitter conversation with somebody you know discussion was started [TS]

  with Ichiro and it led to Tony Gwynn and just talking about like the best hitters [TS]

  of the last 20 years like best hitters of love like you're my adult life and [TS]

  there's the power guys like I think but not a number one I think bond is the [TS]

  best hitter we've ever seen and I yeah I can't I don't really got into any [TS]

  discussion otherwise by take the steroids out of right and he probably [TS]

  still is [TS]

  yeah well maybe but even with may need the numbers are there and they're just [TS]

  astounding I mean that the one year he had 200 and some intentional walks so an [TS]

  honest game we have a hundred sixty-two games hehe drew over and hit one [TS]

  intentional walk a game it's not and has never been anything like that he watched [TS]

  every one of those games to it was a daily occurrence they walked in with the [TS]

  bases loaded one time that's true story true story rather than let Barry Bonds [TS]

  hit with the bases loaded a team actually chose to walk him on purpose [TS]

  and get up around and they want to game because of it [TS]

  nah you know good call so Alex Rodriguez right now as it stands as 696 home runs [TS]

  career home runs fourth of all time [TS]

  truly a great home run hitter I mean fourth of all time in the history of the [TS]

  get in some history [TS]

  bonds had more intentional walks in that one season than Alex Rodriguez had a [TS]

  20-year career a 20-year career [TS]

  yep it's anyway bonds great when it was amazing and i read this my favorite [TS]

  player ever [TS]

  excuse me is absolutely my favorite baseball player ever Tony Gwynn used to [TS]

  call it the 5.5 whole meaning it was between the these numbers for the [TS]

  players in between the shortstop who is 6 and the third baseman who's five on [TS]

  the scorecard he just tried to hit the ball between the shortstop and third [TS]

  base and could do it with remarkable accuracy but think i read was thick like [TS]

  when he started slowing down a little bit his average dropped and for him [TS]

  dropping men he got close to 300 I the end of difference was that he wasn't [TS]

  beating out the ones that the shortstop would backhand anymore and I had a [TS]

  conversation with Ted Williams and Ted Williams told him to start he said you [TS]

  got it you need to pull the ball more and it's just that one conversation with [TS]

  Ted Williams and all of a sudden Quinn purpose we started trying to pull the [TS]

  ball little more in is it that was when he that was the led to the seasons where [TS]

  he was hitting like 350 360 [TS]

  yeah I mean it's so simple right like just hit the other to the other part of [TS]

  the field like all right i'll do that then because like it's a row [TS]

  Quinn could seemingly put the ball where he wanted it so what did you think about [TS]

  your number one you have to watch him if you don't even like baseball just go to [TS]

  youtube and google Ichiro hitting he starts running before he hits the ball [TS]

  yeah he's a left-handed batter and when he sees the ball he his batting stance [TS]

  is such that he's running to first base but as he makes contact with the ball [TS]

  with nobody has ever done nobody would ever teach if you you know saw a little [TS]

  kid doing it and you're coaching Little League immediately said oh no can't do [TS]

  that you're never gonna hit the ball the other thing is that he treats his bats [TS]

  as though their samurai swords and this is where i'm going with the keyboard [TS]

  where it's he he comes in and spends like an hour a day like examining his [TS]

  bats with like-for-like with his eyes like an inch away and rubs over every [TS]

  surface of them he carries them [TS]

  kid is a collection of many carries in like a custom-made like we call it a [TS]

  humidor when you put scars in it's like a humidor [TS]

  yeah it's it's a moisture-proof carrying case that he carries himself by hand and [TS]

  doesn't hand over to like the team equipment people and it and when you [TS]

  know this and you realize it's about him and then you watch him on TV you realize [TS]

  that his bats are all in like mint condition like most of the bats are all [TS]

  gunked up with pine tar and and nicked and have marks from where they hit balls [TS]

  and batting practice [TS]

  Ichiro's bats all look like they're in mint condition now they're they're his [TS]

  professional tool and he treats them as such and when you see him use them you [TS]

  can see it's like an extension of his body its he is it surgical precision [TS]

  with what he does with them [TS]

  the other thing I read about each other is it every year or I think it's every [TS]

  year but at least several times he has visited the hall of fame in cooperstown [TS]

  in the offseason and I you know orchestrates a behind-the-scenes you [TS]

  know tour and he takes out the bats you get some of the bat he has like a list [TS]

  of hitters whose bats he wants to examine and yeah and he you know I saw [TS]

  pictures of babies got the white gloves on you no good because these are like [TS]

  historic artifacts and he studies the bats of great hitters and and weighs [TS]

  them and unlike examines them in fine detail it's it's just amazing and that [TS]

  to me that to me is like what justifies me caring so much about my keyboard [TS]

  yeah i think it's your it's your professional tool right and how you it's [TS]

  how you make your living [TS]

  yeah and that's the bottom line and so writers do writers talk about things [TS]

  like like keyboards and and you know notebooks and write pens and things like [TS]

  that yeah they do but but you have to understand it is it is actually a [TS]

  professional tool it's like how our livelihood happens [TS]

  yep it's worth it alright let me take a break from all this great keyboard [TS]

  baseball discussion i was trying to keep us off baseball by talking about [TS]

  keyboards and now we did a boat [TS]

  I and tell you about our first sponsor this is a great company's global delight [TS]

  now we all use headphones and we're going to talk a little bit more later [TS]

  and show about headphones to listen to music our iphones and ipads but matter [TS]

  which headphones we use [TS]

  the audio often feels like it lacks depth [TS]

  globalite there the company behind the mac app boom that it's like an audio [TS]

  enhancer for Mac it's a great app actually knows that actually different [TS]

  brings about they were sponsoring the show a couple weeks ago so these are the [TS]

  same guys behind the mac app boom they have an iOS app that solves this issue [TS]

  it's called boom for iOS now iOS you can't have like a system-wide extension [TS]

  that enhances audio across-the-board it doesn't work like that is so boom on iOS [TS]

  is a music player app and no matter which headphones you use it turns the [TS]

  music you listen to into an amazing 3d surround sound and it's it's an [TS]

  amplifier a you know like a sound filter music player doesn't stop there [TS]

  you can change the equalizers you can adjust the base and the intensity of the [TS]

  audio with fine control you can be real picky [TS]

  this is for people who really care about what this stuff sounds like in your [TS]

  headphones boom plays it's magic with the downloaded music from your iTunes [TS]

  library so it's not like you have to like you know do any kind of magic stuff [TS]

  or or pain in the butt stuff to to import your music into it just place the [TS]

  system stuff the system stuff in your iTunes library and it's very very simple [TS]

  to use [TS]

  ah here's in the best part is free to free download so if you don't you you're [TS]

  skeptical you don't know what it's going to sound like go download it get it from [TS]

  the App Store try it out and then it's an in-app purchase to unlock everything [TS]

  if you if you like the way it sounds [TS]

  hope your browser if you want to see their website its boom for iOS . com [TS]

  so just bail boom then fo r iOS dot-com and you'll be taken to the boom app [TS]

  directly and then you can hit the download button all you need to do is [TS]

  then just by the in-app purchase if you like it and and you'll enjoy it it's a [TS]

  great app these guys do a great job even though their specialty is obviously [TS]

  audio they do a phenomenal job with the user interface stuff that stuff looks [TS]

  exquisite always very very very impressive UI design and here's the best [TS]

  part [TS]

  we've got a special offer for talks to listeners they got a sale running [TS]

  through the 21st of august i think it's a normally 499 for the in-app purchase [TS]

  yes 499 right now you'll buy it right now [TS]

  for august twenty-first you get it for a buck 99 so that's two box and you get [TS]

  this great app so go download boom for iOS and try it out and buy it before [TS]

  august twenty-first you'll save save a couple bucks I we get there is a lot of [TS]

  news I don't be probably yes probably pretty stupid to waste so much time on [TS]

  keyboards but i think i do love them you chapter markers in your podcast of solve [TS]

  everything I chap I don't yet you know i should mention this that I did you know [TS]

  III because the ATP does it and you guys do to you guys do have chapter so you're [TS]

  in there now I'm not on everyone but on some of them yeah I so for everybody [TS]

  wants them on this show we are looking into it hits its there's a tooling issue [TS]

  where it's actually there is no good tool for this yet [TS]

  yeah the friend of the show Mark Harmon is actually working on such a tool [TS]

  I'm aware of that yep and there will be chapters on the show [TS]

  eventually all right so the news what you want to talk about first I guess we [TS]

  can God German stuff [TS]

  yeah i mean so mark urman right he's he's piece back he's a bloomberg we saw [TS]

  he had a report like a month ago but he's he dropped a few reports this week [TS]

  that are you know his sources are so good especially in the hardware side [TS]

  that that the it feels like confirmation to me and I know it's not it's justin [TS]

  it's another story with anonymous sources saying this is what Apple is [TS]

  going to do but it feels like confirmation now the government said you [TS]

  know given the nod and been like yeah this is what's gonna happen with the [TS]

  with the iphone and with the with the the new macbook pro it's like having a [TS]

  four-run lead in the bottom of the ninth [TS]

  you're probably going yeah yeah and I mean I feel like and it's funny because [TS]

  now that he's a bloomberg in a bloomberg I i know some people have who have [TS]

  workers or do work at Bloomberg and Bloomberg is a very their little [TS]

  idiosyncratic and what they do in terms of like their style guide and their [TS]

  their their copy desk and things like that but they're sticklers and you can [TS]

  see it in increments reports that some of the phrasing is kind of different [TS]

  than maybe he did a 9to5 mac where they probably just you know made sure that it [TS]

  would end up there [TS]

  don't I don't want to impugn and five Mac but you know most online stuff [TS]

  including stuff i do you give it a read and then you put it up you don't have a [TS]

  copy desk with who are sticklers and and so it's sort of been interesting to see [TS]

  how how they change some of his phrases where they make make it very specific [TS]

  about like what he knows and what he doesn't know and what the details are [TS]

  but I and so it ends up being a 95 and fuzzy at 9to5 mac i would say it was [TS]

  always you know mention and he never he always wrote in a sort of reporter [TS]

  refashion even a nine-to-five network not as opposed to like a colonist stop [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  joanna stern and I were talking about that the last episode of this show that [TS]

  I I I could do it i guess but it would feel it would feel like drudgery to me [TS]

  like I've always wanted to be a columnist and right in my own voice so [TS]

  government always wrote in a reporter's voice but he would just be the biggest [TS]

  difference i would say is that when he had a scoop he would put the according [TS]

  to this you know sources familiar with it once in the first paragraph and then [TS]

  the rest of the story would be here's what i've found out where the bigger the [TS]

  biggest stylistic difference with Bloomberg with him at Bloomberg is that [TS]

  the according to the people threat and able there's an awful lot it just keeps [TS]

  coming back and back that it this is according to people what people have [TS]

  told him and I personally you and I everywhere engaged in a thread on [TS]

  twitter about this I actually like this better I'd I really do and it maybe it's [TS]

  a little inside baseball you know like that you and I think about these the [TS]

  copy desks and stuff like that but I like it that it emphasizes that this is [TS]

  not a known fact and that government isn't saying that he's seen this thing [TS]

  himself which would you know alleviate the need to source it it's from sources [TS]

  who said that they know this and I think that's worth emphasizing yeah [TS]

  and-and-and them you know being sticklers that that's what they want to [TS]

  do is say we've got information but we haven't confirmed ourselves from a [TS]

  source that we trust and so we're going to say it's an anonymous source and then [TS]

  throughout the story every time we cite something weird if we can't say it as a [TS]

  fact because we saw it with our own eyes essentially we have to say we have to [TS]

  attribute [TS]

  that to whoever got it and so as a result you you get the things about that [TS]

  you know there won't be a headphone jack the sources set right for people they I [TS]

  think that people the people said right that's interesting too because it's it's [TS]

  a way of corroborating that that that piece of information came from multiple [TS]

  sources [TS]

  exactly and that's good that's clarity right and it may feel weird to read it [TS]

  that way because there it is definitely being done with with great care [TS]

  but as a user of that information it's really good to have clarity about what [TS]

  you know what mark Gurman is being told by his sources and what he may be is [TS]

  extrapolating from that and i like i like having that because then then we we [TS]

  can leave to our judgment but it also eliminates to just the confusion of like [TS]

  what he's really saying here is he does he know that or is he supposing that and [TS]

  and the way it's the bloomberg process seems to have taken his stuff is it's a [TS]

  little bit clearer about the stuff that he he has been told by his sources like [TS]

  sort of laying it out like this is what we know from from sources [TS]

  the other thing that you and i know and i $FULLPHONENUM i think it's probably [TS]

  true for you you too i definitely think so i think that the whole reason that [TS]

  you and I have eked out you know these positions we have is that we attract we [TS]

  don't attract the most readers but we attract discerning readers write like I [TS]

  just no way that the readership of your stuff in my stuff combined amount to a [TS]

  hill of beans from The Huffington Post perspective right if we're counting [TS]

  pages were in a little fish [TS]

  yeah but we attract discerning readers and so a lot of times when i go off on a [TS]

  track like this about just how meaningful it is when a bloomberg or a [TS]

  Wall Street Journal says you know print out a rumor [TS]

  sometimes I get a lot of pushback from readers who are skeptical readers which [TS]

  is good and I'm not surprised that i have readers who are like yeah you know [TS]

  I don't believe it just because it's in the wall street journal and that's true [TS]

  and I I think everybody should read all the everything they read my stuff your [TS]

  stuff especially news reports with that you know skeptical moment where did this [TS]

  information come from i think being a critical reader of journalism is is an [TS]

  essential skill should be taught emphasized in schools i think in a way [TS]

  that it wasn't for me [TS]

  so I'm not saying it's true but you do you know inside baseball it's like II [TS]

  you know that like a publication like Bloomberg or the wall street journal or [TS]

  the New York Times knows that when something like this gets reported what [TS]

  almost everybody else says is Bloomberg says the big iphone is going to have two [TS]

  cameras and they don't go into that nobody else reports that it's mark [TS]

  Gurman who says this one reporter like if it doesn't turn out to be true it's [TS]

  it's mostly on Bloomberg in the antlers are just a huge company it with [TS]

  financial information i mean the is reporting about that one of the largest [TS]

  if not the largest public company in the world getting information wrong about [TS]

  their biggest product right that's that would be colossal right and so now they [TS]

  want to they want to be careful with it but it also says something that you know [TS]

  when he reports the stuff they are standing behind and as observers of what [TS]

  government has done over the years I i we can see why because his forces are [TS]

  his forces are good he always has been careful [TS]

  I think he's actually a great fit for Bloomberg because of all of those things [TS]

  he's not a super speculative guy he's somebody with good sources who lays out [TS]

  what sources say it is funny it's funny to me I heard I i found out that he was [TS]

  going to bloomberg back in march or whatever it was that Apple held an event [TS]

  in California what was that March like it was march like yeah mid-march and it [TS]

  wasn't it seemed like it wasn't like an open secret but there are a couple of [TS]

  other people in the the you know cover apple press game who knew that he was [TS]

  going to go to Bloomberg and it was funny to me that it never never actually [TS]

  was published like the guy who's the guy who's who's known for spoiling apples [TS]

  secrets his own secret everybody was just like it just seemed like uncool [TS]

  because it seems like everybody seemed to will not want to publish it or tweet [TS]

  it or anything just because it just seemed like well it's you know it's not [TS]

  bother the kid [TS]

  yeah exactly i don't like the courtesy kinda happy for him to kill ya good work [TS]

  he's really young he was in college you know hehe has done some incredible [TS]

  things and and now he's got a really high profile job at a major source of [TS]

  news and business information so it's like it yeah we come didn't want to [TS]

  record for him he's yep he's d does good work [TS]

  it's a great i think it's a really good fit because Bloomberg in particular in [TS]

  my opinion really emphasizes scoops they they really pride themselves on on [TS]

  breaking things like this being first while simultaneously being completely [TS]

  accurate right as opposed to what you know they won't cross that line of being [TS]

  first by taking a chance that it's not true but they really want to be first [TS]

  and it's a feather in their cap as a provider of business intelligence [TS]

  because I mean that the number one way Bloomberg makes money as far as i can [TS]

  tell and what I've heard is it's like the terminal they have these terminals [TS]

  there in the offices of people in the financial sector they are giving [TS]

  real-time business information and news and from when you view Bloomberg through [TS]

  that lens where they're not like a white wire service or something they are [TS]

  financial information provider and news is one of the things that they do when [TS]

  you think of him that way it sort of sort of makes sense yeah that's where [TS]

  the corner now that's exactly where the culture of being first and having the [TS]

  scoop comes from is the culture from the terminals and as you want to get ahead [TS]

  as an investor you want that extra edge right I really i worked at a firm on the [TS]

  Philadelphia stock exchange was in college I had as an internship doing [TS]

  like ITC I wasn't doing investing stuff that was you know on the computer team [TS]

  but they had the you know the traders had the bloomberg boxes of course so I [TS]

  got to see them they're interesting fascinating devices for the mid mid [TS]

  nineties yeah and what the funny thing and there's a I'm and they were fast [TS]

  that's the one thing is that well that's that's the whole that's the whole story [TS]

  there's a story somewhere i'm trying to find it that the problem of Bloomberg [TS]

  terminal is so it is they called the terminal it looks like a Doss interface [TS]

  it's got these weird keyboard shortcuts like something like word star or [TS]

  something it's that kind of thing right is strange strange thing but the thing [TS]

  is the people who know how to use the Bloomberg terminal they can do [TS]

  everything fast with a couple of keystrokes it [TS]

  this incredible thing so it's a huge ux problem because it's impenetrable on one [TS]

  level but once you know it you can have complete control over it and their love [TS]

  to change it because they're they're uh they're loyal loyal customers that want [TS]

  it want to know how to use it so it's that they end up in this weird place was [TS]

  like can we improve this product or do we need to leave it looking like a das [TS]

  terminal forever [TS]

  well and there's never a day for it for the traders there's never like a slow [TS]

  day you know so there's never a day where well alright will you no will [TS]

  install this new version that I don't know how to use and i'll be lost all day [TS]

  you know trying to figure out no yeah it's they can't it can't ever do it [TS]

  right so it's better better to just let your your interns and your new hires [TS]

  read the manual and learn how to do it and get up to speed and just leave it [TS]

  the way it is and it's yeah it's fascinating baby day and there that's [TS]

  the whole thing they're they're not afraid that knowing people who worked at [TS]

  Bloomberg they are not afraid to be different from the crowd like today they [TS]

  have different terminology for stuff they don't call the laptops that their [TS]

  journalists get aren't called laptops now my trap they're called like travel [TS]

  units are travelers or something like it's just did they got their own [TS]

  terminology they got their own rules it goes down it's just it's they are they [TS]

  are different and I think that maybe comes from mike bloomberg that you know [TS]

  he was about you know he's a maverick he's not afraid to to say let's do [TS]

  things kind of differently and it also comes from the fact that they are not a [TS]

  traditional you know add funded journalism outfit their this their [TS]

  financial services outfit [TS]

  yeah so governments to articles recent articles first was the one about the new [TS]

  iphones yeah [TS]

  so its seemingly confirmed that are definitely said that the the plus-size [TS]

  one will have the two the two camera system brand seem to confirm that the [TS]

  4.71 want but doesn't quite say that and this is one of those things where that [TS]

  the sourcing is kind of interesting [TS]

  he's gonna read the paragraph the dual dual system sharpened photos taken in [TS]

  low-light environments the person said the combination of the merged photos [TS]

  from the two camera sensors also allows users to zoom while retaining more [TS]

  clarity the person added the smaller version of the new phones will not [TS]

  include new lenses KGI Securities analyst ming-chi kuo said earlier this [TS]

  year now that to that last bit is fascinating to me because seemingly [TS]

  Germans own sources didn't didn't or couldn't say whether the smaller phone [TS]

  has the two cameras he's only referring to a report from ming-chi kuo it may be [TS]

  or may not because later they talk about the headphone jack being removed and [TS]

  they may reference maco takara as you have the original report so I i'm not i [TS]

  couldn't read this and say whether they're you know whether he doesn't [TS]

  actually know that for sure because it sounds like he actually just said that [TS]

  it's not i think it's more that he may be doing in a bloomberg in kind of way [TS]

  the hat tip yeah of-of who originally reported this because he didn't [TS]

  originally yeah I think that's going to equal i think--not the matakara but I i [TS]

  well from a credit cards for sure that way that I wonder if maybe that the [TS]

  ming-chi kuo attribution this is that which is just look you know this person [TS]

  got it first we should tip our cap to them uh confirms no headphones and the [TS]

  other what you know another this is new there's not one bit of it that is new [TS]

  but it's confirmation of a whole bunch of these rumors that are floating about [TS]

  the other thing that the home button now won't physically click it will be tapped [TS]

  doors for stores touch like like the track pads like you know the modern Mac [TS]

  my macbook trackpads [TS]

  which is interesting and I think I wonder you know there's often a lot of [TS]

  German story doesn't mention waterproofing at all but one of the [TS]

  things that has been floated about is that whether Apple will bill it as [TS]

  waterproof or not the one of the design features of these new iphone since that [TS]

  they will be even further water-resistant the previous ones ran [TS]

  and I can only imagine that a force touch home button would help in some way [TS]

  in terms of waterproofing simply because it seems like every button that actually [TS]

  moves is a is a place where moisture could get through [TS]

  yeah it's also going to reduce repair incidences because you know even if it's [TS]

  not that common home buttons malfunction because I mean it's a moving part it has [TS]

  to go up and down and so you take that out of the equation and it's not [TS]

  actually moving anymore you just feel like it's moving when you when you press [TS]

  on it i can see assuming they do it right although you know the 3d touch and [TS]

  the for such in the trackpad is they did a good job with that so assuming they do [TS]

  it right so that you really do get that that that sense of of action that would [TS]

  be the worst thing in the world if you're like why is my phone locked up [TS]

  and you try to press the home button and nothing happens like that what do I do [TS]

  now so they gotta get it right but there are a lot of benefits to you know [TS]

  simplifying the shape of the product basically I just one of those things [TS]

  that might be like keyboards where it some people might really like it and [TS]

  others might not [TS]

  because it's will feel different and i love the new trackpads III I think you [TS]

  know maybe you do too i have a yeah I do have a review unit of macbook pro that [TS]

  apple gave me to test [TS]

  what's the new operators the Arabs yeah that one right behind me right and so my [TS]

  personal macbook pro has is older it's it's you know forget i think that might [TS]

  be two years old at this point are close to two years old doesn't have it i love [TS]

  it it's a 13-inch macbook pro it's probably now my favorite macbook that [TS]

  I've around I really the more i use that I really it appreciate out good at this [TS]

  the one thing I really liked better about the review unit one is that [TS]

  trackpad i really like the force touch trackpad and I think the main reason why [TS]

  is that i tend to click a lot at the top of the trackpad yeah and the mechana [TS]

  that the lever that is the moving trackpad it the the [TS]

  chrome is at the top so it's actually a lot easier to click towards the bottom [TS]

  than it is at the top on and i love that on the force touch one it's just as [TS]

  clicky everywhere on the whole thing I know other people don't like it i think [TS]

  Marco Arment does not like the force touch trackpad so maybe the home button [TS]

  will be the same way [TS]

  yeah it could be the market doesn't like I do like I actually use the desktop [TS]

  magic crack yes [TS]

  yeah too and I i really like it amazon did this with the kindle which one was a [TS]

  voyage I think they put like it's in now with paige Turner buttons which they had [TS]

  taken off of an earlier model but it wasn't really a button it was this [TS]

  haptic thing where you squeeze this thing on the side and it gave a little [TS]

  vibration and yeah it didn't it didn't work there although that was kind of [TS]

  cheaply done and i expect apple to do a better job than that but they ended up [TS]

  with their the oasis that they have now it's just back to being a physical [TS]

  button because that was just a better experience so we can be done badly but I [TS]

  would imagine given the force touch trackpad that and I think that's why the [TS]

  reference is being made to it is that whoever describe this to mark Gurman is [TS]

  like no no it's gonna be like the force touch trackpad you're not gonna even be [TS]

  able to believe that it doesn't move which that sounds good to me [TS]

  yeah it's funny to me because i thought one of my complaints for years with [TS]

  iphones was that the home buttons were not good enough and maybe i just got bad [TS]

  phones i don't know but like in the 3g 3gs and maybe even like the iphone four [TS]

  areas like there was like a certain it squishiness to it that I didn't like [TS]

  year after year and I I i think i even wrote about it on during fireball that [TS]

  on a device where there's really just one main button that button she should [TS]

  feel really good now if you're going to minimize buttons the buttons that you [TS]

  have left have to be really good because they're really going to stand out and [TS]

  it's the sort of thing that Apple should pride itself on doing well and I think [TS]

  that they've now they've got a great that the cleanness of the the touch ID [TS]

  era home buttons to me is terrific to me it feels like one of the best buttons in [TS]

  the world [TS]

  yeah it's good there are there are i mean there are lots of speculations [TS]

  about how Apple because it's apple right Apple wants to eventually have no [TS]

  buttons and [TS]

  no ports that's sort of a platonic ideal of a device and this then is possible [TS]

  that they would get rid of the home button entirely at some point release [TS]

  the physical home button even if there's a way to do that to a gesture and this [TS]

  seems like a step in that direction which is ok now we've got it so that we [TS]

  can read your fingerprint and you can press on it in order to get what you [TS]

  where you want to go but there's actually nothing moving and that's like [TS]

  step one and maybe step two is that they put you know they put that on up you [TS]

  know the bottom center of the screen or something and it started seeking that [TS]

  out whatever a future iphone design might be I don't know but that they just [TS]

  seem like it's it's it's a very Apple step to make to eliminate a moving part [TS]

  and so I what are we left with the focus on here that the fact that the 4.7 inch [TS]

  phone apparently won't have dual cameras and it's yeah you know the rumor chain [TS]

  has has been pretty consistent on that regard [TS]

  especially if you believe the supply chain links of the backs of these phones [TS]

  there's never been one a credible one that showed two cameras the two camera [TS]

  oval on the foreign 4.7 inch iphone and there's usually one on the 5.5 inch I'm [TS]

  a little bummed about that because I prefer the 4.7 by far in terms of hand [TS]

  feel and in fact as you know anybody read by my iphone SE review if anything [TS]

  i'm fat mixed feelings about the 4.7 inch versus the the iphone SE size 4 [TS]

  inch phone [TS]

  yeah I I've been thinking about this i think it's probably not sure I think 4.7 [TS]

  is probably the mainstream phone and will remain so [TS]

  but I did have that moment where I thought with the iphone SE doing [TS]

  I think we better Apple even admitted way better than apple expected and now [TS]

  we're talking about differentiating the iphone plus at the high end with a much [TS]

  better camera which in some ways is taking advantage of the fact that it's [TS]

  just got more room there and it's and it's more expensive so they can pack [TS]

  stuff in there i do have those moments where I think why would you get the 4.7 [TS]

  inch iphone like if you really care about photography get the big iphone if [TS]

  you're somebody who uses your phone all the time and once the biggest screen [TS]

  possible get the big iphone and if you if you care about size and that's your [TS]

  priority or if you care about price the iphone SE [TS]

  he's right there and it's just again it's probably not realistic but I feel [TS]

  like it's interesting that Apple is making the edge phones kind of really [TS]

  appealing in the almost like the the simplicity of the one and the power and [TS]

  complexity the other and then what's the 4.7 inch iphone well it's just your [TS]

  average iphone i guess yeah in the middle there are other rumors that there [TS]

  will be three iphones new iPhones never have you say I've using this there will [TS]

  be a pro and the plus yeah so it would be like I do it forget i don't think [TS]

  they're going to call it iphone 7 but maybe they will but let's just say that [TS]

  they do because i don't and let's note mark Gurman story at no point calls that [TS]

  the iphone 7 right at 10 . ah well hold that thought because there's that key to [TS]

  understanding this his sources or one of the kids yes indeed Rams um so let's [TS]

  just say they call it the seven thatthat's this other room would say [TS]

  they would be the iphone 74 points 7 inches the iphone 7 plus which would be [TS]

  5.5 inches and still have the same camera probably with like the image [TS]

  stabilization but the single-camera circle on the back and then the iphone 7 [TS]

  pro which would have the dual camera system and presumably like maybe like [TS]

  256 gigs of storage [TS]

  I'd I and part of that rumor is based on like supply chain links that show some [TS]

  of these plates that look there the bigger size but they only have one hole [TS]

  for the camera right and who knows that they're fake I don't know some of those [TS]

  it's like that that when those pictures come out they go so super viral that [TS]

  there's you know some of them have been faked over the years I don't know what [TS]

  the motivation is for people making these fake ones but it's crazy I that [TS]

  this stuff that doesn't make any product marketing sense to me and i agree and [TS]

  and we've just defined right we got was an ipad pro right I feel like they could [TS]

  do an iphone pro but to have a pro and a plus and the regular iphone and the SE C [TS]

  and have the pro in a plus B essentially the same except one of them has this [TS]

  like one esoteric difference it seems [TS]

  too complicated and which is not to say that I'm not intrigued by the idea of [TS]

  like an iphone pro that is the two cameras and maybe support for the pencil [TS]

  that that's interesting that's an interesting idea of our branding that [TS]

  product that way but to have that and then I ideals more likely to me that [TS]

  it's just you know what we're seeing is the is is the 6s plus Jenna again maybe [TS]

  maybe slightly altered but just the 6s plus + and that's a question is like [TS]

  what if they keep traditionally apple has kept the previous year's phones in [TS]

  the lineup so you know what happens there too i I don't know it seems [TS]

  unlikely though that they would have two identical phones except for like the [TS]

  cameras on the back [TS]

  yeah and it's just and it it makes it harder like with by calling them the [TS]

  iphone 6 and iphone six-plus and then the 6s and 6s plus they can just say [TS]

  they can say shot with iphone 6 and it right in it all of the new phones aren't [TS]

  carried with that whether you have the plus or not the plus is just refers to [TS]

  the size even though the camera was technically slightly better because i [TS]

  had optical image stabilization they didn't need to say that they could just [TS]

  say they could run ads and billboards that just say iphone 6 and iphone [TS]

  success and it covers both whereas if they do this they do it doesn't they'd [TS]

  have to run out separate campaigns and then that would it would peg the ones [TS]

  that are going to sell in greater quantities the lower price ones that the [TS]

  the regular and the plus it would peg them as being understand the lower-tier [TS]

  from day one which is it just I don't know something about that doesn't sit [TS]

  right with me [TS]

  I guess it's possible like I wouldn't be shocked if that's how it turns out but [TS]

  government story makes it seem my dishes 24.7 5.5 and the 55 has a better camera [TS]

  yeah as these double you know dual lens system which is cool idea i mean i think [TS]

  I i think the place where smartphones could still get better right I'm back in [TS]

  the old days it's like they could get better everywhere it's like everything [TS]

  could be better but now the place like number one place where I think a [TS]

  smartphone could get better and in terms of priority has to be the cameras the [TS]

  cameras could get so much better because we we know what good cameras look like [TS]

  and although the cameras and smartphones are amazing [TS]

  to what they used to be they they could still be so much better so I like the [TS]

  idea that Apple is is going down that path and seeing what if we put two [TS]

  lenses on and you software and put them together and and and they should be [TS]

  doing that that that's absolutely the right thing for them to do [TS]

  yeah and I don't even think governments description of it is it hit that his [TS]

  description is about that its first minutes and sharpening photos taken in [TS]

  low-light environments I mean that could help with that but the bigger the [TS]

  biggest difference of the two lens system isn't really light sensitivity [TS]

  that's a problem that's really hard to solve [TS]

  just because of the physics of optics with that the size of these devices and [TS]

  healthy a small the sensors are compared to like a full-size or even even like [TS]

  the Four Thirds system cameras or something you know the ones with small [TS]

  sensors like a aps-c like in a camera camera those small sensors are so much [TS]

  bigger than the sensors that you can fit in a phone like it's it's absolutely [TS]

  remarkable how good the photos you can get off these devices are with how tiny [TS]

  the sensors are but that's really a limiting factor for light sensitivity [TS]

  the two lens system is really about having two lenses of different focal [TS]

  distances so you've got the one that's wide angle like the one we already we've [TS]

  always had on her phone and then to have a second one that has a longer focal [TS]

  length like you know I don't know what it would be the equivalent and 35 [TS]

  millimeter terms but you know 50 or 80 85 or something so that when you zoom it [TS]

  can actually do it [TS]

  optically instead of you trying to shoot something far away and get it closer and [TS]

  you know Phillip more the frame the optics of that are way better if you [TS]

  actually have if you're doing it with a real longer lens instead of with you [TS]

  know just dropping the wide wide lens picture and and there's going to be [TS]

  otter be ways that might be ways to do 3d stuff you know slightly 3d stuff you [TS]

  know for the live pictures and stuff like that it could be all sorts of [TS]

  really cool optical stuff with this so i better get bigger bigger pockets [TS]

  yeah i know that's that that's my thought too as I i I've always rejected [TS]

  that phone because it's a large but i would be if anything would tempt me to [TS]

  get a larger phone it would be something like that like a much better camera [TS]

  would tempt me to to just swallow my pride and expand my pockets and [TS]

  get the get the big phone then the second factor for me in a little bit [TS]

  like the hand that size in the pockets in the hand I'm never gonna like but the [TS]

  second factor for me personally is that I'm like oh my i'm rushing towards [TS]

  needing reading glasses when i wear my contact lenses like i mentioned this on [TS]

  the show before but long story short when i wear my contacts i need reading [TS]

  glasses to read in low-light environments now I can't focus at [TS]

  reading length when I have my contacts and when I'm wearing my glasses I can [TS]

  because the and I just talked to my doctor because when you wear glasses [TS]

  they're further from the the lens of my I wears contacts literally there right [TS]

  there and so I'm it's at a distance I see exactly the same you know add [TS]

  clarity with glasses on contacts but at a close distance when you start getting [TS]

  presbyopia in your forties it really it makes a big difference whether you have [TS]

  contacts are not so it but really when I have my glasses on what I like to do [TS]

  with what I read is take them off and I'm because I'm nearsighted I can [TS]

  without any correction at all i can read that's when i read the best I actually [TS]

  read tons and tons on my phone lately in the morning before I put my contacts in [TS]

  just with just because it's actually the the way I see clearest is with no [TS]

  correction at all with my phone right in front of my face but I wear contacts [TS]

  most of the time but having the bigger phone and being able to make the text [TS]

  bigger would actually would actually be optically good for me now my my wife has [TS]

  a 6s and uses it in the mode where it's blown up to essentially it's pretending [TS]

  to be a five [TS]

  yeah because she's because she's got for the first time because he's always had [TS]

  perfect vision but she's in her forties now internationals reading glasses and [TS]

  so she's just that's been one of her concessions to be able to use her phone [TS]

  without having to switch to reading glasses is is using that extra screen [TS]

  space just to make everything bigger as you know what I've been doing [TS]

  I i haven't given into that zoom mode but I do go into [TS]

  the text size oh yeah and it is it is made it makes me feel good about the [TS]

  fact that I've been promoting accessibility features long before I [TS]

  needed them but now i really do I am and my vision problems I always want to say [TS]

  this it if anything it makes me appreciate how good my vision still is [TS]

  you know because it's like having a scare with you know losing the all the [TS]

  vision of my eye when I had the retinal detachment and it really makes me [TS]

  appreciate just how bad some people's vision really is people who are you know [TS]

  on some scale legally blind but you know there's some people who are legally [TS]

  blonde can still see that something but the the accessibility features in iOS [TS]

  it's like it's so great that makes me in and now i'm actually somebody who [TS]

  benefits from them [TS]

  well that's how my wife uses her Apple watch because you know you can't really [TS]

  do the large screen mode on the Apple watch how she has used the accessibility [TS]

  feature to increase the text size and it makes her Apple watch usable otherwise [TS]

  it's like it's great that I have this watch on but if I have to put my glasses [TS]

  on every time I need to read [TS]

  yep anything on the screen it's pointless so she uses the the type size [TS]

  control i do it is a great great grand feature so I don't know I guess I'm [TS]

  gonna have a big phone i don't know i don't know what I will have to see how [TS]

  what exactly The Devil's in the details and this comes back to what you were [TS]

  saying about where Mark government sources are is is a lot of times with [TS]

  these apple products i always say this i mean it's just it's so true [TS]

  you gotta know where the rumors are coming from and what else and what we [TS]

  know is what is this [TS]

  we know the product but we don't know the story and write and as the marketing [TS]

  and in some ways it's the software like we know that there are two cameras and [TS]

  we can speculate on what those cameras do but Apple will probably have a very [TS]

  particular story about how those cameras work together when one camera gets used [TS]

  when the other gets used do they get merged together how does that work is [TS]

  their UI to flip between them or change the focus or things like that and that [TS]

  we we really don't know right what's the scenario where this is going to be [TS]

  better [TS]

  like I said I scenario i can think of that in i'm sure you know you run into [TS]

  the same thing too is parent in the auditorium and the kids on stage now [TS]

  where the phone the phones is a terrible camera for that situation because you [TS]

  really want a picture of your kids [TS]

  but it's there's no way that optical zoom in a dimly lit auditorium . optical [TS]

  zoom digital zoom yeah the work of a wide-angle a walk angle lens with the [TS]

  tiny little sensor it's you might as well not even do I always wondered when [TS]

  I see these parents holding your phone's up for the entire thing i really want to [TS]

  play that louis ck rant of of hey just be here you know I mean Jambi hear from [TS]

  because it's not just that you'd be better off just being there watching it [TS]

  that the actual image you're getting from that camera from a cellphone [TS]

  halfway back in an auditorium is going to be useless [TS]

  you're going to make out your kids face but a longer lens might it might [TS]

  actually save that [TS]

  yeah i was we were coming back from a long weekend and we were driving we were [TS]

  in southern oregon and so we're driving back driving south and you go past [TS]

  understand five to go past mount shasta which is huge volcano there's a it's [TS]

  it's like two miles above the the rest of the landscape around it and even [TS]

  middle of summer within 90 degrees outside their snow and glaciers and [TS]

  stuff on the top of it and it's spectacular you driving on the freeway [TS]

  there's this huge volcano right in front of you and I get on my iphone to take a [TS]

  picture of it and I open it up and look and it's just like it's like it's not [TS]

  even there because it's that wide angle shot is that both sides the windshield [TS]

  it's got the road all that and I zoomed in and I got I got an okay shot with the [TS]

  digital zoom but those shots are no good because they are zoomed in so far that [TS]

  any of the majesty of it [TS]

  any of the majesty of it [TS]

  is now lost in all the little pixelation that happens when it is when I it does [TS]

  it it will make for it and I presume it'll be killer who does it because [TS]

  that's chillers gigue these yrs this is usually the he's the guy who does the [TS]

  new iphone in September right and i happen to know that you know shoulder is [TS]

  a truly f-4e you know real fuck photography enthusiasts he really knows [TS]

  his shit about cameras and he really cares but it's such a hard thing to [TS]

  present when you're saying how awesome this camera is and this other phone that [TS]

  we also want you to be excited about doesn't have it I can't do it but I do [TS]

  it's a perfect scenario though like you want to get the mountaintop you know and [TS]

  that is exactly the sort of thing where a second lens that is longer will make a [TS]

  dramatic difference but when they show you the dramatic difference it's going [TS]

  to be in comparison to what you get with the other new iphone [TS]

  I think we're just gonna have to say like you know we could do this because [TS]

  it's a much larger phone then and any that they're gonna have to explain it [TS]

  that way but I think the only way we could do this is because the iphone 6 [TS]

  plus they're seven plus or whatever it is and is this much bigger and and so we [TS]

  can have we have the room to do this but i'm looking forward to that demo because [TS]

  I imagine that's going to be the you and our demo of the whole thing because [TS]

  they're gonna have some first they're gonna have hired spectacularly good [TS]

  photographers to take all the sample images and then they're going to they're [TS]

  going to be perfect ones to show off when you flip a switch or you slide your [TS]

  finger or something [TS]

  you go from A to B and everybody goes low and you can see what it's going to [TS]

  be it's going to be a winner that demo yeah i totally think so before we leave [TS]

  iphone wide-eyed hinted few minutes ago that not knowing the product names is a [TS]

  clue to government sources like the product names in my in my experience [TS]

  there are that is like need-to-know basis with an album and i think that the [TS]

  number of people even like who work in product marketing know the name of the [TS]

  new iphone is probably pretty small [TS]

  yeah names prices yep and also means they're all so changeable right hardware [TS]

  heart has been locked for for ages now the software is basically locked [TS]

  although idea they will have little bit but it's stuff that they've had to be [TS]

  working on for months and months and months names unless ship [TS]

  in that day and it's still the name is iphone right they could literally ship a [TS]

  box just as iphone on it will be ok [TS]

  names that you can leave those pretty late in the game and prices you can [TS]

  really late in the game and so it's a very small group of people who are doing [TS]

  that the in in terms of marketing and PR and and they don't they don't leak as [TS]

  much unless they I want to I think they did they don't become less the company [TS]

  wants a leak [TS]

  I think they don't they don't like as much it comes from supply chain and it [TS]

  comes from kind of people in the broader company who know little bits about it [TS]

  and and can leave those little bits but my experience I don't know you remember [TS]

  when they did mountain lion and everybody expected there would be no OS [TS]

  update for like another year or six months and we all got briefings [TS]

  yeah about Mountain Lion and I like I literally didn't know what I was being [TS]

  briefed on my walked in and said yeah there's a new version of OS 10 is called [TS]

  mountain lion it's going to come out and you know if we're going to announce it [TS]

  in two weeks and I just nobody had been talking about it and literally it was [TS]

  not i mean the embargo dropped and everybody's minds were blown that's that [TS]

  was a really instructive thing for me about how buttoned-up apple in cupertino [TS]

  in the marketing department could be because that was something that didn't [TS]

  like my didn't leak because that not very many people knew and nobody in the [TS]

  supply chain knew nobody outside of of Internet loop new really yeah and that I [TS]

  don't know how they do the packaging like where where and how they make all [TS]

  the boxes for these phones but that's you know like here in my box here that i [TS]

  have one right here on my desk and it says iphone 6s so ransomware there's [TS]

  somebody making all these boxes and that could leak but it's different than [TS]

  regular supply chain and it's notable that the phones themselves don't have [TS]

  the numbers on the back they usually just say iphone last year they space [TS]

  they put the s underneath but it just says iphone ass and the iphone SE has an [TS]

  SE underneath it on the back etched into it and that name did leak [TS]

  yeah because its edge it was etched on the things that they were making in the [TS]

  smudging [TS]

  yeah I want you wonder about like gap the security of who who who's printing [TS]

  you know where the boxes [TS]

  yeah where they get printed right on golden who is that and presumably that's [TS]

  all happening in China because they're shipping them direct from china but i'm [TS]

  not saying too that you you couldn't you know you can head on the name if you [TS]

  wanted to but the name is probably chosen but it's a it's a smaller group [TS]

  and then keep it buttoned up more easily and and you see that in a lot of reports [TS]

  where there are details from the the hardware side but not from the marketing [TS]

  and marketing side and that'll allows us to keep some degree of of a mystery at [TS]

  least for a while [TS]

  often you will see those reports happen like a day or two before the event when [TS]

  when they have to tell people but the those those people in the know can be [TS]

  really secretive about it right now [TS]

  yeah and once you know boatloads of these things are you know on route or [TS]

  can fly the first couple batches I don't know but once they're starting to put [TS]

  them on pallets and ship them across the Pacific Ocean then there's obviously [TS]

  more sources for league right and the jig is up although that's one reason why [TS]

  why they're not usually available today right when they announce them is that [TS]

  they are not quite in the in the chain yet at that point to keep some amount of [TS]

  of secrecy i think right [TS]

  I wonder I wonder how much that you know that that they only do like a small [TS]

  number of boxes beforehand so that they can give us the review units and stuff [TS]

  but then once they announce it is when all of a sudden like there's some place [TS]

  in China where they're starting start turning out literally millions of boxes [TS]

  with the product name like go because the I presume that they can print these [TS]

  boxes hell of a lot faster than they can assemble phones [TS]

  oh yeah sure i'm sure i'm sure that's probably a cool machine to see ya i was [TS]

  i was thinking I wonder if you could print on an assembled box so like just [TS]

  keep the just keep the edge that says whether it's a six señor a seven or [TS]

  something else and just stamp it probably not they probably printed on [TS]

  the cardboard and folded up let's take a break before we talk about the macrumors [TS]

  and let me thank our next sponsor our good friends at fracture fracture is [TS]

  photo decor company that is out to rescue your personal favorite photos [TS]

  speaking of cameras from the digital either you guys know if your longtime [TS]

  listener the show or other shows you know it there [TS]

  this is a company that you send them your photos and they print them directly [TS]

  on glass they don't print your photos on paper and then like glue the paper to [TS]

  class or something like that they have a proprietary process that is amazing [TS]

  where they print them directly on glass I don't know how it works but it looks [TS]

  amazing [TS]

  they really pop they have great vibrant color and contrast it just it just looks [TS]

  like an exquisite print of a photo and it is a great way to bring your photos [TS]

  to life it is such a great thing and it is such a lost thing that we even I'm [TS]

  guilty of it i have them as a regular sponsor i buy them all the time and when [TS]

  I really think about it I don't get enough of my pictures printed by [TS]

  fracture I'm gonna get some printed after the show because I love him I love [TS]

  having them around the house everybody loves having pictures hanging up on the [TS]

  wall [TS]

  they look so great it is amazing how good digital photos even from your phone [TS]

  now look when you get them printed analog on on something that you can [TS]

  actually touch i can't say how happy these every time i buy these factors i [TS]

  can't tell you how happy they make me they even call it their happiness [TS]

  guarantee at 60 days so by it go if you don't just want to take my word for it [TS]

  by it could get them take a look at him and you have 60 days where if you're not [TS]

  happy with the print that you ordered you can send it back and they don't care [TS]

  they doing they're handmade in gainesville florida from us source [TS]

  supplies in a carbon-neutral factory so you can feel good about that [TS]

  here's what you do go to fracture / podcast i love this note URL ends and [TS]

  podcast not the name of your podcast factor / podcast and you will get [TS]

  ten percent off your first order and then they're going to give you a survey [TS]

  and it's got one question and the question is how did you hear about [TS]

  fracture and then that's where you say the talk show or daring fireball or [TS]

  whatever you want with it whatever you want to say so go there practically calm [TS]

  / podcast those I'm surrounded by those right now it did its they're great [TS]

  it's it's it's just so great i cannot say enough good things about this [TS]

  company and it's not really gift-giving season the middle of august but my god [TS]

  it is the best it is the best gift for family people you could ever imagine [TS]

  it's what they do actually assemble [TS]

  you know in Florida so they have limited liberate be basically they did I think [TS]

  they get busy holiday so it's not bad to order ahead and quite honestly because [TS]

  they these are not they don't have just a factory where they can just turn it up [TS]

  they've got there there there there people who make these girls either last [TS]

  year the year before remember doing this [TS]

  read where they specifically the reed included like in bold print like you [TS]

  know please order now [TS]

  yeah please tell people to order by the end of november because but December [TS]

  first we might be backlog past Christmas yeah all right back to government the [TS]

  government had the second thing and more recently on it was just a couple days [TS]

  ago we had a report on the new macbook pro yeah and some of it there was one [TS]

  bit that was new to me and I think but the rest of it wasn't the bit that was [TS]

  new to me was he said specifically that it is not a tapered design like the [TS]

  regular macbook or the macbook air it is still a symmetric thickness across the [TS]

  side which surprised me because I I sort of thought that they would go to a [TS]

  tapered design that it would that that they would go it would be like like [TS]

  think of a macbook air but with the retina screen [TS]

  yeah i mean they must just added this is a way to differentiate this is a way to [TS]

  have more room in there for battery and stuff but I mean it sounds like it's [TS]

  still thinner than a slightly thinner he says yeah but not tapered that's a [TS]

  little surprising i think i think that was the the going theory was that they [TS]

  would be more like that like a macbook air for the for the macbook just a [TS]

  little bit more chunky than that [TS]

  yeah Chuck you're still part of my thinking that would be tapered is that [TS]

  it's three factors one Apple tends to make things thinner i don't know i don't [TS]

  know if you've ever thought about this are no jobs as law that's the jobs all [TS]

  right there [TS]

  I don't have you ever noticed Jason but over the years the alpha tends to make [TS]

  devices thinner nothing and going to a tapered design is a way to make it [TS]

  thinner in parts while still having you know there's certain things that may be [TS]

  required the thickness and they can stick them in the back ran . too is [TS]

  there was a report earlier this year from ming-chi kuo the supply chain and [TS]

  just over in Asia who has very almost no sources i think within Apple itself but [TS]

  some very good supply chain sources in the Asian countries where these [TS]

  factories are and he reported he had a curious report about a 13-inch macbook [TS]

  meaning like the 12-inch MacBook that that we have today this is just plain [TS]

  macbook air 13 inch version right which makes no sense whatsoever like 12 inch [TS]

  and 13 inches not enough differentiation and the 12-inch was just updated like if [TS]

  if they wanted to change the 12-inch 213 I could see that that would be [TS]

  believable if they wanted to go back and have two versions 111 and 113 like they [TS]

  used to with the air i can see that but 12 and 13 isn't it [TS]

  did you know you got to have like small and large you can't have like large and [TS]

  semi large it doesn't make any sense so to me that made sense only in the [TS]

  context that it wasn't a macbook that it was a macbook pro and you know maybe he [TS]

  was just wrong and there is no 13-inch tapered macbook but that's just what I [TS]

  thought [TS]

  and then the third factor is wishful thinking you guys are I I've said this [TS]

  before four years my portable was an 11-inch macbook air and it was it it was [TS]

  really slow because it i tend to the thing that I do that really slows down a [TS]

  mac is I have like 30 or 40 Safari windows open hmm i swear to god i think [TS]

  i have like 40 windows open here on my imac each of them with like eight tabs [TS]

  and on the macbook air that would really you know i have to call tab bankruptcy [TS]

  way more frequency than I want frequently than i wanted to because it [TS]

  just was slowing it down but the thing I loved about it and got addicted to and [TS]

  even two years into having this 13-inch macbook pro still can't get used to is [TS]

  when I take it out of a bag i turned put set in front of me the wrong way because [TS]

  the tapered design made it instantaneously unknowable which is the [TS]

  front which is the back and i still have if i want to do it visually I'm so old [TS]

  and I'm so used to the old power books that i still remember when the apple [TS]

  logo looked right when you were sitting in front of it close [TS]

  not when it ripen and so I did that [TS]

  doesn't help me either yeah i still have my 11 chair here that's my laptop that [TS]

  like take around if I need to and I thought yeah i think there's a group of [TS]

  people who are like well that macbook is not for me but i'm sure the new macbook [TS]

  pro will be smaller and lighter than the existing macbook pro and that'll be [TS]

  close enough and i think that i think that's a question here and that's what [TS]

  you're getting at with sort of wishing that it's more of a wedge shape is the [TS]

  the hope that it's yeah it's a macbook pro but it's still really thin and light [TS]

  and that may not be you know that may not be possible given that they do want [TS]

  to truly be a pro and have the power that the macbook dozen yeah that the the [TS]

  pro they're really serious about the pro at name part of the name and and that [TS]

  makes sense to me that you know because it is pro and i really want to emphasize [TS]

  graphics you know and then there's according to garmin some options to have [TS]

  these really nice [TS]

  AMD graphics don't GPUs and other you know battery life and other things you [TS]

  know obviously it's easier to put a bigger battery and a device that isn't [TS]

  tapered so it makes sense and maybe it still has the nicer keyboard if it's [TS]

  thicker because I kinda you know I i assume that these are going to have a [TS]

  keyboard that's more like the magic keyboard so different than the classic [TS]

  keyboard but not the macbook keyboard that's might that would be my guess is [TS]

  that they they engineered this other kind of keyboard for a reason and then [TS]

  probably not just as an external bluetooth keyboard that this would be [TS]

  the basis of the of the of the macbook pro keyboard to instead of the super [TS]

  thin macbook keyboard [TS]

  yeah that makes sense to me i hope so when I guess the other thing again this [TS]

  was you know rumored before I think maybe from German I'd probably from [TS]

  garmin when he was a 9to5 mac and I've heard other things elsewhere but that [TS]

  the function keys are being replaced [TS]

  there will be no more function keys on the keyboard the f1 f2 f3 and which most [TS]

  people use for the other purpose they don't usually use them as function keys [TS]

  but is the whatever the little icon is you know the volume up volume down right [TS]

  keyboard brightness etc [TS]

  those are going away and it will be replaced with a and led touchscreen that [TS]

  will be software configurable so it'll be like having almost like an iOS device [TS]

  on the keyboard where you tap on these buttons that would be software [TS]

  configurable right which presumably means that then there will be a when [TS]

  this is announced that all the like app developers are going to be given no time [TS]

  to be handed a new API I've like here's how you do this and then they're gonna [TS]

  have to kind of jump to it or we're going to see slow adoption of it which [TS]

  is the downside of having a fancy new hardware that requires software adoption [TS]

  because they'll be a lag i'm i'm a little skeptical visit it's all about [TS]

  the implementation but I'm skeptical only in the sense that I don't look down [TS]

  at my keyboard a lot right and and you use it by feel and this isn't going to [TS]

  be an area that you presumably can't use by feel unless there's some other aspect [TS]

  of this that is not clear in these reports and that that that concerns me [TS]

  like if you have to look down in order to mute your system because you don't [TS]

  know where the mute button it is or if it's even visible that's that seems less [TS]

  good can you can you hit the mute key without looking [TS]

  I can I can't use any of those that function keys without looking i can [TS]

  touch-type but I even after I don't hide i'm not even now I can't even touch type [TS]

  numbers i have to look when i type numbers i can only do the alphabet that [TS]

  i did some of the time i can i can touch-type some of them some of the time [TS]

  and sometimes i do look if I'm if I'm not oriented my hands on the keyboard i [TS]

  think i think it's true but you know that's the argument is that you just you [TS]

  look you glanced down and and you tap i also have I'm kind of excited i used to [TS]

  have a bluetooth keyboard that had a volume control that was you get a little [TS]

  strip that you just slide your finger on and I think that's interesting that some [TS]

  of the things we do with these with these devices like making the the [TS]

  brightness more or less or making the volume louder or quieter don't really [TS]

  have to be there not even the best way to control them is not two keys or three [TS]

  keys [TS]

  it's probably it because it's a it's a spectrum in on an iphone you just you [TS]

  just slide this writer i could see that for something like this to wear instead [TS]

  of having key [TS]

  to control the brightness of your display there's just a brightness strip [TS]

  and you slide your finger on it right is you once you touch school once you turn [TS]

  it like the slider pops up next to it right like if you haven't yet put your [TS]

  finger on brightness and then slide your finger to adjust exactly even if you [TS]

  don't look if you just if you know where to land your finger for the brightness [TS]

  area then at that point you're at where you are now and you just slide left or [TS]

  right to make a brighter or or or likewise with volume and rent if you [TS]

  want to quiet you just touch the volume thing and slide to the left until it [TS]

  says it's muted and that's that's a better interaction then tap tap tap tap [TS]

  on any yeah I could see that you know I mean and I for system-wide stuff I can [TS]

  definitely see it I am i it's not that I'm skeptical it's just that I can't [TS]

  i've yet to imagine a scenario where i would want / application stuff and [TS]

  that's one of the things government said the point was that you know depending on [TS]

  what applications are indicative different things so you know would it be [TS]

  helpful like if you're using photoshop or or you know an image editor to have [TS]

  the the tool palette on the keyboard so that the argument is like you know I'm [TS]

  Final Cut users sometimes would have liked stickers that they put on key s [TS]

  yeah [TS]

  in order to stay like this is what i need to do to do this thing that you [TS]

  wouldn't need you could just have custom labels I mean it's just like with the [TS]

  iphone you have the custom label so even if it's essentially the same as command [TS]

  shift option k or it's you know she you know command F to that instead of that [TS]

  it just has a thing that says you know split clip then you can you tap it and [TS]

  it does what you want I gotta thank you the idea i guess i guess there's someone [TS]

  you know and it ties it back in with our earlier discussion about custom keycaps [TS]

  you know where I've seen like you I've seen that you can buy like if you use [TS]

  Final Cut as a profession you can get like especially not just stickers you [TS]

  can just buy a keyboard that has the you know the keys i think there's photoshop [TS]

  versions of that too yeah well you know i'm on ATP at one point a few months ago [TS]

  they talked about that i think there's a an incredibly expensive keyboard that [TS]

  has custom keys like that they're like little screens i have seen that [TS]

  yeah that's madness but you know that that that idea so yeah I mean it's it's [TS]

  true and and you know i could see Apple pitching it has been [TS]

  in a way to unearth the most important and little-used features in your app in [TS]

  a way that but you know you can expose them by giving them their own dedicated [TS]

  space on the keyboard at aii my fear is that Apple is going to have some really [TS]

  great examples with their apps and then all the third party developers are gonna [TS]

  be like well you know and then and and they're gonna not adopted or they're [TS]

  gonna do it badly that you want to see because that's it that's a real [TS]

  challenge for like mac software developers suddenly have having to do [TS]

  this whole new approach to their UI which is this only on macbook pros by [TS]

  the way right [TS]

  I don't know it's weird well maybe presumably i would think if it takes off [TS]

  if there's any kind of traction with it whatsoever it will come to the regular [TS]

  macbook next revision around and maybe we'll come to the magic keyboard [TS]

  yeah I mean maybe I think it's a little weird as I as I think about it and [TS]

  imagine it I can't imagine it being cool i can imagine it being a gimmick I'm not [TS]

  sold on it purely is it idea [TS]

  yeah but i do think it's weird a weird mashup of touch screens and the the [TS]

  abstraction of the pointer based mac OS right that you've got a screen on the [TS]

  laptop that is abstract meaning you have to use a trackpad or a mouse to move a [TS]

  pointer that is a representation of you in the system and then have an actual [TS]

  touch screen right there right it could gets to the whole point of people [TS]

  thinking that they want touch screens on the mac itself which but it remains [TS]

  inside apples philosophy of it which is that you don't go out of the out of the [TS]

  plane you don't go perpendicular that people don't want to do this on the arms [TS]

  thing but but if your hands are down on the keyboard right on a laptop you know [TS]

  you're looking at the screen but you're also looking at the keyboard it's right [TS]

  there you can't really look away from it and that that you know and then your [TS]

  fingers are already you know right next to that touch area so you're not having [TS]

  to lift up and then reach out and touch the screen so it does fit it's a way for [TS]

  them to do touch screen technology short of replacing the entire keyboard with a [TS]

  touchscreen and while not kind of breaking their philosophy of not doing a [TS]

  touch [TS]

  Green on the main screen right which would also require you to redo the [TS]

  entire UI of the mac OS to make things of a size that would be amenable to [TS]

  being touched [TS]

  would you make it all the controls incredibly large for everybody using a [TS]

  mouse would be which is one of the reasons why don't think it's ever gonna [TS]

  happen it doesn't say government doesn't say whether the touchscreen strip for [TS]

  function keys as he describes it will be a tactic i hope that it is because it to [TS]

  me that would make it make a lot more sense because then you could navigate by [TS]

  feel a little better right [TS]

  I don't know if you can though because if it's if it's a touchscreen then if if [TS]

  you're running your finger over it you're touching it unless unless its [TS]

  pressure sensitive right i don't know i mean there's a lot of there's a lot of [TS]

  questions about this one this is this is a real mystery where we're not knowing [TS]

  anything but the existence of the hardware we left to put our own [TS]

  judgments on it that may have nothing to do with the the real approach in the [TS]

  real way Apple is going to explain it when they roll this out i also says [TS]

  he'll have us bc it doesn't say how many right USB seaports favorite or 500 fits [TS]

  or if they're removing UAE at all together or Thunderbolt or is there a [TS]

  mix it's just sort of like there will be USB it will include USBC isn't that one [TS]

  of the one of his sources said which ties back to my how long will I be able [TS]

  to get away using an Apple extended keyboard to that adapter i have goes to [TS]

  regular USB so I you know what show us bc 2 USB dat be just a change just to [TS]

  keep changing them forever [TS]

  eventually though right so I'll be able to keep going with a USBC only imac if [TS]

  let's say the next 1i replace this imac if that one only has USBC although i [TS]

  presume on an imac they're not going to get rid of the you know they can afford [TS]

  to just have a bunch of ugly ports because they hide them all on the back [TS]

  yeah probably so i probably won't and that's where i use this keyboard i don't [TS]

  have never used the I've never used it with a macbook [TS]

  you know it doesn't make any sense to pull the plug extended keyboard you know [TS]

  an external keyboard into a macbook so I'm not too worried about it but it [TS]

  makes me think wonder about you know at some point eventually I think before the [TS]

  the death of the Mack I i wouldn't be surprised if I'm using a mac that [TS]

  doesn't have any ports at all other than power [TS]

  so yeah you know 10 15 years from now will I school i will there be USB ports [TS]

  on a Mac I don't know [TS]

  well you'll be going from wireless standard to us bc 2 USB the atb at that [TS]

  point [TS]

  yeah I'm sorry Sophia I'm sure they'll be a chain of adapters that you can use [TS]

  keep using your 30-plus year old keyboard that anyway I guess that's what [TS]

  I need I need a USB port that apply hub that goes to one wireless wireless and [TS]

  bluetooth a yeah yeah I'm sure he also at the other reported here that i [TS]

  thought was really interesting when we talk about sort of how he qualifies the [TS]

  sources at Bloomberg is he says apple is also considered bringing space grey gold [TS]

  and silver silver silver it already is a big basically adding the other two [TS]

  colors that they have in the iphones and on the macbook to the new line a person [TS]

  said right and then he says it's unclear if this will happen so basically he had [TS]

  one person say that they were talking about it and we don't know what the [TS]

  outcome is and if they're actually doing it or not just that they thought about [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah I think they probably will I hope they do I mean I I feel like I mean I've [TS]

  been another podcast I've been complaining about this for a while now [TS]

  as I kind of Miss the old days of like the colorful ipods and stuff and even [TS]

  the colorful max if you go back to the original iMac and and they ended up [TS]

  having you know eight different colors of those I kind of Miss that like we [TS]

  were all silver apple products for so long and now we've got the gold in the [TS]

  space cray and that's good i think it's a good step but I do i do feel sometimes [TS]

  I know that their supply chain issues and and and and store issues and and all [TS]

  of that but I do kind of Miss having more personality and color and like if [TS]

  somebody wants to buy a blu macbook they would be great they would i would love [TS]

  that but at least one of things i like about the macbook is [TS]

  it isn't just the silver color you can get it in the gold or the rose gold or [TS]

  the or the space grey yeah it's been a long time for me where there's one color [TS]

  from MacBook and you don't like it I have the black book when they made that [TS]

  and i love that and then that was the last macbook I had before I should i [TS]

  switch to the macbook air and it's been also for laptops and I i saw someone in [TS]

  starbucks with the black macbook earlier this summer maybe a year this year and [TS]

  we're out there [TS]

  great condition I mean this guy really obviously cares for it because IM it [TS]

  glanced at least it was it certainly wasn't grungy at all and I was but I was [TS]

  my had this moment where I was just like whoa what is that [TS]

  that thing looks great and then I realized that what it was and I was and [TS]

  then I kind of thought that was and I was like they were more prone to [TS]

  fingerprints than the white ones but i think they were more resilient overall [TS]

  because the white ones were super shiny and so they got scratch pretty easily [TS]

  but the black ones where this matte color and not add more at a glance i [TS]

  thought it was gorgeous the other one that I've had that I don't haven't seen [TS]

  one in years now but long after it was discontinued occasionally I would see [TS]

  the 12-inch i think it was called a powerbook yeah 12v power but the 1i was [TS]

  my the one with the keyboard really when edge-to-edge yeah just like the macbook [TS]

  now I mean that was that was the original edge-to-edge this keep this [TS]

  laptop cannot be any wider than the keyboard the full-size keyboard i love [TS]

  that that was my favorite before the 11th year that was my favorite alive [TS]

  I for years afterwards after its discontinuation when I'd see one like at [TS]

  a press event or a coffee shop or something i'd have this moment of whoa [TS]

  what brand computers that that is a hot look at it you know like wow [TS]

  Apple should get on that makes oh but yep because I knew it wasn't you know [TS]

  like the modern I instantly did recognize it as something different than [TS]

  what you guys available now and instantly recognized into something that [TS]

  was gorgeous [TS]

  yeah but boxy because it's so thick now that but in terms of with I mean it was [TS]

  it was incredibly small some way smaller smaller than the macbook because the [TS]

  screen was so much smaller yeah but it but then but then super thick [TS]

  yeah it is yeah there's a certain elegance to the way that the keyboard [TS]

  looked edge to edge where it's sort of like the same appeal is like those [TS]

  infinity pools [TS]

  like good looks at something it in my brain registers that is beautiful like [TS]

  it's the same way like there was somehow instead of being awkward that there was [TS]

  no edge around it it the proportions were so nice that it just looked sharp [TS]

  like I really always felt I always felt that computer was like a keyboard that [TS]

  had a computer around it that it was like the computer and the keyboard we're [TS]

  just all part of the same thing in a way because of that design I idea that was [TS]

  mine that was my favorite the 11-inch took it over as my sort of favorite [TS]

  apple laptop ever but for a long time I was that a 12-inch MacBook is is kind of [TS]

  kind of always something to that now but it's not quite the same [TS]

  yeah there's a framing device in German story that I don't buy it all which is [TS]

  that an end if you watch the video he did with bloomberg TV they emphasize it [TS]

  to which is sort of like Apple is doing this new macbook pro because ipad sales [TS]

  have tapered off and the ipad didn't really succeed at being the replacement [TS]

  for laptops i'm here i'll just read his words this year's macbook pro overall is [TS]

  aimed at increasing notebook sales at a time when consumers are taking longer to [TS]

  buy replace iPads Apple research suggests customers upgrade iPads roughly [TS]

  every three years while they buy new iPhones every 18 to 12 months according [TS]

  to a person familiar with Apple strategy which blog that I that has nothing to do [TS]

  with why this macbook is command now it yeah it sounds to me like he had a [TS]

  tidbit which is that Apple research is yeah seems to have twigged on what the [TS]

  buying pattern is for the ipad which we've all been wondering like what is [TS]

  the cycle and it sounds like his sources set suggest that Apple thinks it's three [TS]

  years but it doesn't seem to have I mean that likely weren't gonna update the [TS]

  macbook pro if the ipad was doing great they were just never going to update it [TS]

  again i think most people would say that surprised it's taking this long [TS]

  right because they were waiting at Intel and Intel had some issues and they [TS]

  thought they could skip a generation get away with it [TS]

  yeah i got bitten and now they're like that's too long 140 days or something [TS]

  like that [TS]

  yeah well it's very clear that they thought they could get away with [TS]

  skipping that one intel processor generation and and skating by because [TS]

  the next one was going to be great and then the next one go ahead [TS]

  issues and now here we are but you know I don't like it has anything to do with [TS]

  the ipad yeah why why has it taken so long for this ipad this new macbook pro [TS]

  to come out and were speaking about it as though it out and it's not out yet [TS]

  and now we can even may not be out until october and remember even and I think [TS]

  you could use that is I don't think with this in particular like that the mac pro [TS]

  is a totally different story and edit I don't know what is going on there [TS]

  because it's been nine years or nine years but yeah feels like it's been [TS]

  about nine years since it came out three years without any updates at all and [TS]

  that it there's the story on that has to be more complicated and it might be more [TS]

  worrisome to people who really depend on those those those machines with the [TS]

  macbook pro though I think the story is exactly what you said I think that there [TS]

  was an intel generation of chips that Apple thought they could skip and wait [TS]

  for the next one in this because it's like why do a new version of the macbook [TS]

  pro of the old you know macbook pro as we know it with just with the new [TS]

  chipset when this new thing is coming when and we have all these plans for the [TS]

  you know keyboard and it's going to be thinner will wait you know we'll wait a [TS]

  while with that and it's taken longer than they thought it would because it's [TS]

  too many they sell too many of these like it's easy to say that there is off [TS]

  the ball on the mac pro because it just doesn't sell my quantities but the [TS]

  macbook pro is a big moneymaker [TS]

  it really is i think it's there I mean I my money would be on it being there [TS]

  number one mac that they sell right because they sell to be somewhere [TS]

  between two-thirds and three-quarters of the max that they sell they don't break [TS]

  it out anymore in rank so we we can tell but it's a it's a huge number of the [TS]

  majority of the max old laptops they're not desktops their laptops and i would [TS]

  think that I mean macbook air probably isn't selling very well now the macbook [TS]

  is probably doing ok but macbook pro that's the workforce that is at a normal [TS]

  time that's got to be that the most important of all the mac certainly and [TS]

  certainly by revenue and profit because it yeah it's not quite there and [TS]

  quantity it is a much higher price especially and because it attracts pros [TS]

  it i'm sure that more people buy them and max out the storage and [TS]

  ram and stuff like that the graphics you know whereas the people who buy [TS]

  certainly the people who are buying macbook airs are buying them for the [TS]

  price at this point because the specs aren't there the screens aren't retina [TS]

  whereas people buying the pros might be buying the ones that cost you know 25 [TS]

  hundred dollars so bye-bye revenue it's gotta be so I'd i think apple is as is [TS]

  internally furious about the delay on this so the other thing government [TS]

  reports and you you looked at it [TS]

  government says that they're not planning to debut them at the event next [TS]

  month which I expect to be on September seventh and catching it at mainly just [TS]

  going by history which is that for the last three four years they've had an [TS]

  event somewhere around this is like march 72 or sep tember 7th 2 1112 [TS]

  something like that and if you look at the calendar March or September seven is [TS]

  the day its way on a and the monday $MONTH $DAY two days before his labor [TS]

  day which is why they're not having on Tuesday exactly right well it was two [TS]

  years ago was the ninth and i think last year is the eighth and I think that [TS]

  making it the seventh this year makes makes a lot of sense if they if they're [TS]

  sticking with that pattern that will be what it is [TS]

  um i would have expected and again i have no inside information on this what [TS]

  so ever but just based on the fact that last year they used one event to do [TS]

  everything that was coming out in the fall including the ipad pro which wasn't [TS]

  coming until late october that even if these macbook pros aren't coming til [TS]

  October that they would use this one event to to unveil them and the one [TS]

  thing I do know just from last year was talking to people at Apple that it was [TS]

  definitely purposeful a purposeful decision to go to 11 event September for [TS]

  everything i'm going to do that fall instead of what they had done in the [TS]

  previous few years which was a big event in September and in a smallish event [TS]

  usually a town hall in cupertino in October that they found that too too [TS]

  hard to do back-to-back yeah you know I think I think they could announce them [TS]

  at the event and just say look we we love the mac and we have a whole bunch [TS]

  of new mac stuff and here's a really quick look at where the mac is going [TS]

  this fall and they would say this is coming in october this coming out [TS]

  November of course Sierra's out now [TS]

  blah blah we're done they could do an event also i mean i know people don't [TS]

  like it when i say this but there are apple can release products without an [TS]

  event [TS]

  yeah and for something like the mac which we all love but at the same time [TS]

  is a small part of apples but overall business now is it the end of the world [TS]

  if Apple does a you know a macbook pro press release I mean it would be a [TS]

  whimper but they could they could also do a really small event somewhere [TS]

  they've done that before where it's a mac event and it's got a very limited [TS]

  invite and it's town hall [TS]

  I didn't it could even do that I don't think they're ever gonna go back to town [TS]

  hall but they got options they don't have to give it 30 minutes onstage on [TS]

  September seven [TS]

  yeah my guess is that they either give it 30 minutes onstage September seventh [TS]

  or they'll release it without an event and do product briefings get the prefix [TS]

  and press release and big website and you know I'm in fact is Apple can [TS]

  release a product without an event and still get lots of press coverage because [TS]

  they invite their you know key journalist contacts to pre briefings and [TS]

  give them an embargo and and then you know one day you wake up and suddenly [TS]

  all of these reviews are posting about what the new macbook that just was [TS]

  announced yeah i think when they do the briefings there's obviously fewer press [TS]

  than an event but it's not it's not super exclusive either like I remember [TS]

  when the watch came out uh III there was an event in March that was the year that [TS]

  couldn't travel because of the eye surgery right they didn't give them they [TS]

  didn't have watches to give out yet and when they did they did they did product [TS]

  briefings New York and and on campus and cupertino for us coasters [TS]

  so I went to New York but it was tons and tons I mean a big big operation I [TS]

  mean it was it wasn't just like oh they invited three people and Ryan get my [TS]

  watch I mean it was a an operation [TS]

  yeah although that's it that's in part / perhaps because they thought they would [TS]

  be able to give them out at the march of india and they couldn't but like they [TS]

  can do that with the macbook sure that they certainly absolutely could [TS]

  uh trying to say anything else about the back book pros [TS]

  I don't think so i know i mean i-i just we mentioned that the seven years it's [TS]

  been since the mac pro got updated i do think that that's a that's an [TS]

  overarching question that we still need an answer to is what's going on with the [TS]

  rest of the mac line think other than the macbook that all kind of the this [TS]

  would be the season this fall would be the season where they would do a least a [TS]

  speed bump on the imax and maybe the mac mini and certainly a story about what's [TS]

  going on with the mac pro and it sounds like you know they're working on that [TS]

  stuff I've seen reports that all that stuff is in process and it's just a [TS]

  question of windows it formally announced and shipped and it sounds like [TS]

  we may end up with a fall where the entire Mac line turns over except the [TS]

  macbook and yeah i think i hopes oh yeah we really do because it is you know it's [TS]

  damn curious if you want to use a mac pro that you have to buy a [TS]

  three-year-old computer i can't i can't believe they're still selling them [TS]

  I mean it's almost unconscionable that those products are still for sale [TS]

  because they're so outdated now it would be fascinating to know how many of them [TS]

  they're actually selling because even more than the macbook pro it I it's [TS]

  almost certain that nobody goes in and by accidentally just on a whim buys it [TS]

  Mac Pro right like that it's it really truly is the most probe all of any [TS]

  computer they sell it's very expensive [TS]

  it requires a display you know I wonder if they're selling intense institutional [TS]

  sales now where they actually buy a bunch of them and give them a big [TS]

  discount and yeah you can buy a month on the apple store on but that [TS]

  maybe if they're selling any it's really that and and it's two people that they [TS]

  need a mac pro and they needed today and they might just get up and I can totally [TS]

  see though how a lot of people coming in to buy a mac a macbook of any sort or an [TS]

  imac they have no idea when the last time it was revised and they don't care [TS]

  sure it's just look at it looks right and it seems to be very fit very fast [TS]

  right there the story i'll buy it where's the mac pro is only selling to [TS]

  people whatever the reason whether they're you know videos that [TS]

  editors or photographers or developers they're selling to people who know that [TS]

  this this is a three-year-old computer and I route you know at the end people [TS]

  who note a know that it's old be know that it's no longer a good value for the [TS]

  dollar and see know that it's gonna physically paint them to buy one and [TS]

  then have a new one come out in short order exactly also i wouldn't feel bad [TS]

  buying an imac now even knowing ya I want you back in the fall because the [TS]

  idea that the 2015 update to the imac I mean those are those are good modern [TS]

  fast systems it's not the same situation though they're all fast with mac pro to [TS]

  basically so yeah I don't even know was baffling I i got the first 5k imac yeah [TS]

  i got no and I don't even feel bad about that one even knowing that the next one [TS]

  came with the increase color gamut which is gorgeous but which I I'm never going [TS]

  to see it side-by-side with this one and this one still looks drop-dead this [TS]

  displays the best display I've ever had so yeah I don't even feel bad about that [TS]

  yeah i'm colorblind so I really mean is color i can see color but I'm I don't [TS]

  appreciate some of the finer details of color and the color gamut thing I i [TS]

  basically I can see it a little bit but yeah it doesn't make me feel sad and I [TS]

  got bad core i7 it yeah that's the i7 imac I did the bill to order of a [TS]

  high-end like it's the most powerful Mac I've ever owned [TS]

  I'm just even though it's a 2014 I'm happy with it Tom friend of the show [TS]

  Craig Hockenberry is doing it from the these developer and I contractor [TS]

  yeah he's doing a lot of research into colored technology [TS]

  long story short I helped him out and but I looked at he had an image i gotta [TS]

  whatever you want to call it [TS]

  what's deep resolution whatever that's called the the extra you know that the [TS]

  extra color it's like a wide color gamut wide color gamut he had a photograph [TS]

  that that took advantage of it and I just looked at it at the on the imac and [TS]

  I looked at it on the the ipad pro which is the I think the only device i have [TS]

  that has that the 9.7 yeah yeah and I could see the difference but it will but [TS]

  it was not a heartbreaking difference it was a WoW apples really killing it with [TS]

  the with these displays but it did not break my heart that my imac [TS]

  doesn't have it yeah exactly that's that I think that's exactly right if our [TS]

  photographer working in in that you know color space and being frustrated that my [TS]

  display couldn't write properly display it then i would i would jump on it if it [TS]

  was retina vs non-retina then I would just pick up this imac and throw it in [TS]

  the garbage yeah and head to the apple store [TS]

  uh-huh yeah so I I feel like like Mac was that mac rumors saying don't buy an [TS]

  imac like yeah you know you buy an imac I suppose you're reading macrumors [TS]

  you're savvy enough but like you goodbye [TS]

  I think you could buy an imac if you need to find if you need a if you got [TS]

  ate you to definitely do it I would because it'll get better in the fall [TS]

  there's no doubt but it's already pretty great that's a that's a [TS]

  it's gonna be fine but the mac pro no idea macbook pro same thing so i hope i [TS]

  guess that's what i'm saying is i hope that there's more behind this exciting [TS]

  macbook pro which is absolutely should be the number one thing on the on the [TS]

  list of of mark thurmond reporting about it but I hope behind that there are [TS]

  asked of even if it's just sort of speed bump announcements and all the rest of [TS]

  the backline intriguing Lee not mentioned in Germans report is anything [TS]

  about the displays including pixel sizes and including next pixel count of the [TS]

  new iphones and it and whether they're going to get the wide color gamut and [TS]

  the room temperature that the temperature since shifting but it was [TS]

  alright what do they call that feature don't have an iphone ipad to town to [TS]

  town which I kind of his wife even a government did mention i'm just gonna [TS]

  guess that it does have true tone yeah i'm gonna i'm gonna guess that [TS]

  yeah because here's why I'm guessing that hey it's their flagship device and [TS]

  the best stuff usually comes to iphone first and if it doesn't come first it's [TS]

  like off by six months which would be exactly right with the true town and [TS]

  when it was introduced Schiller said once you get used to it you can't go [TS]

  back [TS]

  which makes me think that maybe Schiller already knew that he wouldn't have to [TS]

  worry about it [TS]

  missing it on his iphone yeah I i agree i think i think apple is committed just [TS]

  just as it was obvious a few years ago that Apple was committed to bring your [TS]

  retina to the entire product line [TS]

  yeah i think apple is committed to bring the wide color gamut and the true tone [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  two certainly the iOS line and probably probably with the truth and stuff even [TS]

  the mac line at some point because i think they've decided that this just [TS]

  improve the user experience that if you're in a place with yellow we light [TS]

  then you ought to match the white . on your display and you could turn it off [TS]

  and people freak out sometimes I'm like oh you're messing with my colors like [TS]

  what you can turn it off but a lot of people would prefer to have the the [TS]

  computer screen color match the light of the room color and I think Apple things [TS]

  I've got a winner with it's a kind of a crowd-pleasing feature and all it really [TS]

  takes I mean they've got the new screen technology but they seem to have that [TS]

  down now and you need a you need a light sensor that is more than just a you know [TS]

  a 1-bit light sensor because you've got to detect the color temperature of the [TS]

  room that's it you're done [TS]

  that's it yeah and it's just another little chip in the pile of here's the [TS]

  year-over-year improvements that exactly are in the iphone that would you know [TS]

  everybody will not everybody but you know that the press at large will sigh [TS]

  and say that's it [TS]

  but if it's exactly the sort of feature that on a checklist of what's new in the [TS]

  new iphones this year versus last year's models is easy to poo poo butt is just [TS]

  like once you know one iteration after another of all of a sudden you know two [TS]

  three four years down the road you've got a device that absolutely blows away [TS]

  you know that the old iphone and if the average buying cycle on a phone is two [TS]

  years and probably still is even though some people will upgrade every year and [TS]

  other people will wait maybe to me now especially now that there's the [TS]

  different financing options in my way two and a half three years right [TS]

  if two is the sweet spot then you know Apple really only needs to make half the [TS]

  case for an upgrade every year because the Indian you're not upgrading from the [TS]

  success you're upgrading from the six and now you've got to add all the [TS]

  success features and all of the whatever this new phone is features together when [TS]

  you make the case to get by an upgrade [TS]

  totally good alright let me take a break thank our third and final sponsor this [TS]

  is a great new sponsor i love this company's product 0 te R 0 [TS]

  here's the whole company euro is founded on the idea that Wi-Fi is broken and [TS]

  their analogy is imagine if like the electricity in your house was better in [TS]

  some spots than others like if you plug in your device your phone to charge it [TS]

  in your living room it's great but if you plug in same plug put it in your [TS]

  bedroom and it's like half the half the speed have to have the charge [TS]

  electricity doesn't work like that but that's exactly what Wi-Fi this like in [TS]

  the house and it's fundamental that Wi-Fi the signal of Wi-Fi does not go [TS]

  through walls easily it's not meant to it goes through the air so if you live [TS]

  in a house or a home or an apartment that has walls and floors like a lot of [TS]

  us do your Wi-Fi signal degrades so ero is a system of little puck shape devices [TS]

  sort of roughly the size of an apple TV except they're white they look like an [TS]

  apple device they're very cute little around squares little pucks very small [TS]

  very nice [TS]

  you just get a couple of them and like their default is like a three pack and [TS]

  you strategically place them around the house you only put one plug one into [TS]

  your cable or whatever it is that you rate your internet comes from and then [TS]

  you use their app and it's an iphone app is a really nice app and you configure [TS]

  the network and then all of a sudden they do all the hard stuff you get like [TS]

  effectively like a professional [TS]

  I don't know what you call it a like if you had like IT experts networking [TS]

  experts come into your house and set up like a Wi-Fi system with a bunch of [TS]

  devices that's what you get with euro except you don't have to be a networking [TS]

  expert you just plug them in from around the house on different floors rough day [TS]

  their recommendation is one for every thousand square feet three packs a good [TS]

  starting point and it use the app setup it's great it is so easy it is so easy I [TS]

  30 day moneyback guarantee you can't can't regret it [TS]

  so if you set it up and it's not better you can always return it and if you want [TS]

  to you can even return one of them like if you get the three pack or a four pack [TS]

  and you end up for to saturate your house with the solid Wi-Fi [TS]

  well then send the other one back that's great [TS]

  it really is a terrific product if you don't believe me [TS]

  search for the reviews Walt Mossberg wrote a great review of it [TS]

  really that's the first place i heard of anything before they sponsored it it [TS]

  really just works it it really is exactly what you think [TS]

  totally simple Wi-Fi system that saturate your whole house with really [TS]

  strong Wi-Fi signal so i can't say enough good things about him go to 0 . [TS]

  calm and remember the code the talk show the talkshow use that code and you know [TS]

  what you get with that you get free overnight shipping so go there go to ero [TS]

  see it when you order use the code D talk show and if you're listening right [TS]

  now do it right right after the podcast and you'll have them tomorrow they'll be [TS]

  there like free overnight and that's for free so can't beat that [TS]

  my thanks to them I have them installed here it is a great Wi-Fi network [TS]

  couldn't be easier couldn't be a better signal 0 get from here to there great [TS]

  did I I that Reed went on long but it's because I'm so enthusiastic about the [TS]

  other guy i cannot i I really rolled my eyes when they sponsored at first [TS]

  because i thought well i know they're gonna want me to stand by if i'm going [TS]

  to talk about i gotta set it up and I thought it was really really thought I [TS]

  don't want to spend an hour setting up a Wi-Fi thing in my house that I'm just [TS]

  gonna have to disconnect thousand would have done it seemed like way more you [TS]

  know it's being a podcast it's easy to get lazy and think that that's the hard [TS]

  work but a it doesn't take an hour it's like it took like 15 minutes and the [TS]

  bead it's it was like better than my old why files [TS]

  yeah because I go yeah i think there's a great benefit and designing a Wi-Fi [TS]

  system for multiple routers instead of just a single base station that most of [TS]

  them or are designed for and it and it shows with that product [TS]

  yeah and you know here in philly everybody you know everybody is [TS]

  townhouse so it's you know we have lots of floors it's not you know I does [TS]

  floors are part of a bigger problem in my house than the walls because what we [TS]

  live right because your vertical yeah right and this in the cables on it's not [TS]

  in the middle it's down below [TS]

  yeah that's hard now it really is amazing I've said before it's a [TS]

  no it s up the Reed continues to go on but I in our garage we never got good [TS]

  Wi-Fi in the garage before it we had the euro and it was a problem in the garage [TS]

  because it would often be like you'd want to you get in the car and I wanted [TS]

  to . you know I wanted to open overcast and download you know finish downloading [TS]

  podcasts but with like immediate was i get there is enough of a signal easily [TS]

  enough of a signal that it wasn't going to LTE it was like a Wi-Fi but it was [TS]

  like when you see two bars on a Wi-Fi that you means like you know you're on [TS]

  like a 56k modem right like that would if you don't have all the bars on a [TS]

  Wi-Fi you're screwed [TS]

  yeah anyway 0i you want to talk about Rick teles Fast Company piece for their [TS]

  guess there's a second piece to there's an interview with the soma st. John [TS]

  right that Mark Sullivan did but really only wrote the main piece [TS]

  yeah I listen to your show your upgrade with my curly and I I thought it was [TS]

  interesting you guys both seemed a little non plugs like that the casual [TS]

  the new beginning of non plus like not that enthusiastic but i love this story [TS]

  I really did and I thought you and Mike were surprisingly like and it really [TS]

  really well anything to be fair one of the things about that podcast we [TS]

  recorded on Monday morning and so like literally I woke up saw that there was [TS]

  this story read it and then we did a podcast about it so I was surprised when [TS]

  I heard it I was like a way i just read the story i was dry I went for a run and [TS]

  I was listening to your show and I was like how are they talking about this and [TS]

  then I realized that the air data the podcast was like I'd literally must have [TS]

  downloaded it as I left the yeah the house and the Wi-Fi radius kept you [TS]

  allow you to download it um yeah I part of it for me is that I see the artifice [TS]

  behind it and I it's just it's most people will never see that but as [TS]

  somebody who has written and edited magazine features before I looked at [TS]

  this and I thought okay I can see why this thing is constructed the way it is [TS]

  and also part of it is some of my own personal bias where I look at a story [TS]

  that begins with like a lengthy anecdote about the surroundings of apple and and [TS]

  you know running into any q [TS]

  and describing what he's wearing and the temperature in cupertino and all of that [TS]

  and there are two ways to view that one is this is a feature story he's setting [TS]

  the scene he's letting his readers get the sense of who these people are and [TS]

  what this place is like and that that is how its intended as an editor I also [TS]

  look at that and think uh you're you know you don't have you don't have a lot [TS]

  of material to pack in here so you have the you know you have the room to tell a [TS]

  story and in fact you kind of need to tell a weave a story here in some [TS]

  imagery because the you know that's that's part of what you've got is the [TS]

  access and then maybe you don't have you know if you had Tim Cook saying [TS]

  something you know pretty profound and deep in terms of pronouncement you [TS]

  probably lead with that but you don't so you lead with the atmosphere and it's [TS]

  like I kind of get the artifice of that and and part of it is just yet as [TS]

  somebody who's been to apple and has talked to and talk to a lot of these [TS]

  people for me i read that story thinking what are they going to say that's new [TS]

  and describing caffe macs and the smell of the chicken masala doesn't do it for [TS]

  me so part of it is that too so I like it I don't like my biases I like that [TS]

  though I really did I did that a couple years ago I think it was the time you're [TS]

  talking about where Apple Apple called us in for a briefing where they didn't [TS]

  tell us what the product was and i had a briefing with shoulder in New York and [TS]

  they said they made clear to me that the whole thing was on the record i was like [TS]

  all of it I can't write about all of it and so then really instead of writing [TS]

  about that the version of mac OS that they showed me I wrote what it was like [TS]

  to have the product briefing with Schiller and Apple did not like that [TS]

  that was I was then told that there was a quote-unquote grouper Claus added to [TS]

  future on-the-record briefings where it's the what's being talked about the [TS]

  product is on-the-record not the yet another with his son don't yeah i've [TS]

  gotten I've gotten read that fried active so thanks for that but no its you [TS]

  know it's it's all about what you want to get out of it and how do i think it's [TS]

  a fine story I think it's got some good stuff in it i think it's you know it's [TS]

  interesting that was done awhile ago because it it's clearly been held for a [TS]

  magazine deadline because you will apparently published in print good for [TS]

  them and so it's like from when the Warriors lot of the NBA finals was [TS]

  awhile ago now [TS]

  so it's not like it's it's kind of breaking news but they did get access [TS]

  it's not you know again I read between the lines and think they didn't get a [TS]

  lot of time with him cooking a lot of time with eddy cue track Craig federighi [TS]

  but they got some and it's and it's I think it's a perfectly nice piece I [TS]

  think that doing impressed me most about it is that it cited all of the [TS]

  misconceptions about Apple without buying into them and and that's hard for [TS]

  a magazine piece or really any peace to do we're usually you either see pieces [TS]

  that are denying the conception or you see them buying into it entirely and [TS]

  this piece didn't didn't do that this piece was like this is how it's [TS]

  perceived but there are lots of reasons why that may not actually be accurate [TS]

  and I was impressed that he walked that line because nuance is really hard to do [TS]

  and and I think you did a good job with it i think he really did a good job of [TS]

  painting a picture of what apple and 2016 is you know and and it's true and [TS]

  it's an interesting amount of time i post steve jobs is my off by you're here [TS]

  i'm pretty sure 25 years i think it was $MONTH 2011 [TS]

  where where I think you're right right around now in August they Steve [TS]

  announced that he was stepping aside CEO to become chairman of the board and then [TS]

  it was october when landing when he died 25 years is you know sort of round [TS]

  number and it's an interesting period of time and it's been a very strong five [TS]

  years for Apple you know they mentioned in the article that the head the [TS]

  company's employee count is doubled in that time certainly their finances have [TS]

  in you know for whatever how much hand-wringing want to give over the [TS]

  year-over-year decreases in the last two quarters [TS]

  overall there those two quarters are still above 2014 and you know it's just [TS]

  the abnormal nests of $MONTH 2015 with the abnormal accessory iphone 6 that you [TS]

  know and again not good but still overall the company is way bigger [TS]

  financially and profits and revenue and [TS]

  and you know number of you just number of users than they were five years ago [TS]

  its it truly is Apple the industry beat him off now they are i mean there's no [TS]

  other way to avoid it and I'd I've been thinking about this a lot like it big [TS]

  picture apple stuff you know as a commentator and columnist that I think [TS]

  in my heart I like Apple the little company better ensure that it was more [TS]

  appealing to me personally and laminates it's your star wars fan it's like you're [TS]

  rooting for the Rebel Alliance when it's it's old apple and now I I had this [TS]

  conversation with my friend Greg Moss who knows everybody on the internet [TS]

  apparently who I went to college with and he was saying you know it's kind of [TS]

  hard to root for Apple these days the few years ago but or or even do [TS]

  something like read the mac elope because it was one thing when they were [TS]

  the underdog and they were the rebel but now they're kinda like the big guy and [TS]

  it doesn't make me you know i don't know that it is just the tone is different [TS]

  the feeling is different and and you write this article gets it i mean i [TS]

  think the maps anecdote was the most is the most illuminating thing in it and [TS]

  it's illuminating in so many different ways like they talk about they talked [TS]

  about the fact that they were kind of in a bubble where all the maps in [TS]

  California we're good for in cupertino were in the bay area we're good and so [TS]

  they didn't realize they had data problems and that they thought it [TS]

  thinking like old Apple which was we have to do this with a very small team [TS]

  because we have to do it and nobody's really disputing that they had to do [TS]

  their own different maps data but they like they had this little team that did [TS]

  it and they were kind of undersized and underpowered and it was a disaster and [TS]

  now they they said like it went from a couple dozen people are dozens of people [TS]

  to like more than a thousand people working on maps now and and I find I [TS]

  thought that's that's that moment when you realize the old playbook doesn't [TS]

  work for like your you have to do this thing right [TS]

  this map thing because it is a key to your business and the future products [TS]

  that you do that you have your own your own source of map data [TS]

  okay but you can't you know you can't do it in the old way which is put a small [TS]

  team on it and have them kind of hack something together you actually spend a [TS]

  huge amount of money and hire a whole bunch of people and and make it really [TS]

  good everywhere in the world and that was I mean I thought that was really [TS]

  interesting not just because they say this is the reason why there are public [TS]

  beta is now but [TS]

  as they need to test it more broadly than their insular community but also [TS]

  just because what it says about how they need to embrace the fact that they are [TS]

  playing on a much larger stage and the stakes are higher and they can't there's [TS]

  some stuff they can't do the old way just because that's not who they are [TS]

  anymore and that's not the game they're playing anymore [TS]

  I a thousand employees I mad they don't say what they're doing like are the [TS]

  these people who are just driving car driving cars yeah that's what my thought [TS]

  is as is his wont years because there's a you know there's a to you know too [TS]

  many chefs spoil this soup at Yankee you know but there's all that there's all [TS]

  the data and there's probably working with data sources and there is driving [TS]

  the cars i do wonder sometimes when they say apples employees have doubled how [TS]

  much of that is retail and people like driving around cars right [TS]

  I don't know then just manually going through the reports that people submit [TS]

  of right place places and maps and just the grunt work [TS]

  of right place places and maps and just the grunt work [TS]

  of oh that's that's no longer a laundromat now that's that was raised [TS]

  and now it's a townhouse you know exactly at it but it a thousand [TS]

  employees with an average salary of a hundred thousand dollars that's a [TS]

  hundred million dollars a year [TS]

  I mean even if it's lower than that as an average because some of them are [TS]

  doing more menial tasks and they're not like engineers or something even if you [TS]

  have that to 50,000 you know that's still 50 million dollars a year that's a [TS]

  significant investment and I think it's exactly an example a Jew but again one [TS]

  of my favorite parts of the story it is exactly the under tim cook apple is an [TS]

  industry beat him off that can do something like create a thousand person [TS]

  mapping division whereas the apple of you know when when they unveiled the [TS]

  maps and steve jobs the CEO was I don't know if they considered a big team like [TS]

  everything every team and apples a small team that's just that was the Apple way [TS]

  of doing things and I don't want to get to come across that like Oh apple is [TS]

  spending money like a drunken sailor now because that's not the case in fact i [TS]

  know for a fact that Apple still I think I think tim cook this is one of the ways [TS]

  that were Tim cooking and Steve Jobs really were similar in their in their [TS]

  disposition is that it hurts them to spend money and higher lots of people [TS]

  think they don't they don't they don't want to do it apple is not managed as as [TS]

  if they had more than a hundred billion dollars in the bank [TS]

  even though they do as if they weren't generating seven eight nine billion [TS]

  dollars in profit every single quarter right there not manage like that they [TS]

  every higher is scrutinized every team that there's always questions like does [TS]

  this team needs to be any bigger it's true [TS]

  so that's why it makes this map thing such a big step for them to be like you [TS]

  know if we think this is what we need to do or the car thing potentially if we're [TS]

  going to do what we have to do it and that means you hiring lots of people and [TS]

  spending lots of money because we're not a small company anymore we are a company [TS]

  that has huge revenues and huge profits and if we want to if we want to stay [TS]

  that way we have to spend money i think that institutionally i know i know from [TS]

  the various friends I have worked there and acquaintances that the people at [TS]

  Apple and this came from [TS]

  steve jobs and it since one of those things that quote unquote instilled in [TS]

  the company's DNA they are deathly afraid of making bad hires and yeah not [TS]

  in terms of talent although that's part of it but in just in terms of whether [TS]

  people get the Apple way and yet you know that that there's nothing that [TS]

  would sink the company faster than then you know polluting it with with bad [TS]

  hires commandos suppose that's right and the same same goes for if you speed [TS]

  higher if you hire a lot of people if you staff up really quickly the danger [TS]

  there is that some percentage of those people are going to be bozos and and [TS]

  that's why apple's teams have traditionally been so small they are so [TS]

  careful about it they are run I think it's not you know apples near-death [TS]

  experience and and the discipline of the way the culture change when Steve came [TS]

  back and they got away from that near-death experience it informs the [TS]

  culture to this day I think they have to fight when they do things like this have [TS]

  to fight against it because it is a different place that they're in now but [TS]

  I see that you know my dad grew up in the depression and he lived his entire [TS]

  life being incredibly concerned about what money was being spent on what and [TS]

  all of that and and reusing things and fixing broken things that most people [TS]

  would just throw out because we had that experience in the Great Depression and I [TS]

  feel like Apple has that in their culture to like we almost went out of [TS]

  business and so we're going to be really careful about every dollar we spend even [TS]

  though we've got a hundred billion in a mattress somewhere i think that the [TS]

  debut of Apple maps is that one of the greatest stories that's really never [TS]

  been told you know from what I know I know more than what was in the story but [TS]

  it's it's like nobody really has and part of the reason nobody has is that [TS]

  Scott Forstall has never broken his silence I even off the record like he [TS]

  stood to this date has never said it [TS]

  god damn thing about anything he's other than that when he popped up when he was [TS]

  producing that play on Broadway which at night exact Apple but he's never leaked [TS]

  a damn word up [TS]

  you know about his time at apple and my understanding again this isn't the was [TS]

  not from a source that I could ever i guess i feel like i can podcast it but I [TS]

  can't right [TS]

  but I spoke to someone at am NOT high up it was just like a run-of-the-mill [TS]

  person who worked at Apple but wasn't management and said that the word on the [TS]

  street in in an apple was that he had a two-year you know do you can't talk [TS]

  cause that's that gardening leave kind of getting what they're paying him and [TS]

  he doesn't say anything and that's part of a severance right that it was a very [TS]

  simple deal it was a dump truck full of cash and and you keep your mouth shut [TS]

  for two years and that weekend but then even if thats off by a year to that it's [TS]

  expired [TS]

  I you know I mean it's possible it is possible to keep your mouth shut about [TS]

  Apple forever [TS]

  yeah but that you can talk about yeah I don't know that's unlikely though you [TS]

  know I mean it's it just seems like the lineout packages are usually and I think [TS]

  it's by choice i think it's just you know it's that that you know [TS]

  unsurprising that someone who is so successful under steve jobs for his [TS]

  entire career and within Apple would it be of the nature to keep his mouth shut [TS]

  even afterwards right it's how do you how do you feel accompany you know how [TS]

  do you how does the company keep its mouth shut collectively by hiring people [TS]

  who keep their mouth shut right so any impression my impression too is that is [TS]

  that maps may have been the precipitating factor for him to be [TS]

  kicked out but that that you know if this was a one mistake he had made that [TS]

  he would still be there that was not this was the precipitation or not the [TS]

  not the crime but anyway all that is to say though that nobody could write the [TS]

  definitive thing on maps unless they can get get forestall open up because [TS]

  otherwise it it's all one sided you know and there is this you have throw [TS]

  forestall under the bus nature to what that is my understanding of actually [TS]

  what happened [TS]

  the gist of it but like I don't have the part of it that doesn't get talked about [TS]

  is that the whole negotiations with google aspect where their their [TS]

  agreement with google use google maps in iOS was running out and needed to be [TS]

  renewed and so Google new in Google knew that Apple wanted vector maps you [TS]

  remember at the time they only had the bitmap maps so they wanted vector maps [TS]

  and they wanted turn-by-turn directions and google was holding this over them in [TS]

  exchange for [TS]

  allowing google to get more user identifiable data like get people to [TS]

  sign into their google account and then using the built-in maps in iOS google [TS]

  would have no information about you you know all of your location searches and [TS]

  stuff like that which Apple didn't want to give them and so Apple because of [TS]

  this sort of knew that they had to switch to Apple maps ready as ready you [TS]

  know make it as good as they can but we need to switch now because our contract [TS]

  is up and we're at an impasse with google / getting the extension to use [TS]

  their stuff and to get that stuff that we need like turn-by-turn and stuff like [TS]

  that so it wasn't like Apple collectively thought apple maps was just [TS]

  fine [TS]

  they knew that it was going to be a step backward but I from what I've heard this [TS]

  from multiple people but that effectively but what Eddy Cue said is [TS]

  very true that a senior executive level what they saw firsthand using the beta's [TS]

  was pretty good yeah it really is pretty good and I know depending on where you [TS]

  are is listen to the show you really might not believe it but really right [TS]

  from the get-go in the bay area it was pretty good i mean absolute you live [TS]

  there right [TS]

  I live there and and people out to this day people do I can't believe you use [TS]

  Apple maps I'm like well i live i live in our from Apple maps here pretty good [TS]

  right here [TS]

  that was never a question it's everywhere else in the world but it's a [TS]

  question and you know this is a you know obviously is a very complex story the [TS]

  long story short they what they saw firsthand with the beta's was pretty [TS]

  good forestall to did you know gave them an impression of how good they were [TS]

  worldwide which was you know raise your hand up to here when in fact it was way [TS]

  lower like forced Alden did then again this is not forestall side of the story [TS]

  is what i've heard but that forestall led them to believe that the rest of the [TS]

  data was better than it is not as good as Google not as good as it needed to be [TS]

  but that it was better than it would be and that what further infuriated the [TS]

  rest of the executive team was the amount of time that forestall and his [TS]

  had his team spend on the fancy pants flyover stuff right remember when they [TS]

  do first demo . yeah the most enforced all did the demo you know and as Apple [TS]

  does this is you-know-who you know ever worked on it and let it is the one who [TS]

  does the demo wasn't just like you're randomly assigned to do is look for [TS]

  stalled spent her [TS]

  we spent a lot of time overseeing Apple maps and spent almost all this time [TS]

  onstage demoing the fancy pants flyover stuff and that what I've heard is that [TS]

  the amount of time he spent in the demo on the fancy pants stuff was [TS]

  commensurate with the amount of time as engineering team had spent working on [TS]

  that and there was you know as you know anger that hey we wasted all this time [TS]

  on this flyover stuff and you people you know can't even get a direction from [TS]

  their home to their office [TS]

  it doesn't you know people people are being told to drive you know into a [TS]

  brick wall and then I have no idea the other thing that you know it's widely [TS]

  reported I can't verify don't have first no don't I unless you get tim cook or [TS]

  sports all to go on the record I don't know how you how you get it on the [TS]

  record but there's that whole story that about the apology letter that Tim Cook [TS]

  ended up signing himself and that supposedly either forced always supposed [TS]

  to sign it or he was supposed to co-sign it with cook and refused and if that's [TS]

  true i've always flies in assuming that that's true that he was you know cook [TS]

  wanted him to either sign of himself instead of him or cosine it with him and [TS]

  knowing Tim Cook I would be surprised if it was cosine because it doesn't see he [TS]

  seems to me like I know the buck stops here but when the CEO asks you to sign a [TS]

  letter apologizing for a a something your only choices are to sign it or to [TS]

  quit [TS]

  yeah like the fact that Scott Forstall seemingly you know and I've also heard [TS]

  that he was taken by surprise by his eventual ouster later that year and I've [TS]

  never heard anything to the contrary on that I it's shocking to me that he [TS]

  thought that he was like an indispensable man you know and i think [TS]

  you know his years you know working under steve jobs may be misled him as to [TS]

  his political stature within the company because there's I I don't see how you [TS]

  you know my CEO says sign an apology you you can't say no and expect to give your [TS]

  job know that that seems pretty fundamental right that that at that [TS]

  point you need to own up to this and even if it's just like look we need to [TS]

  make a message here we need to we need to explain to the customers that we hear [TS]

  them and it's almost defined of like no it's fine or you [TS]

  with denial or whatever it is but yet to be at that point also you could you [TS]

  could argue that maybe that is that is enough stuff built up with him that [TS]

  maybe this was a like--look you're gonna do this this is this is your mess you're [TS]

  gonna clean it up and if you refuse that it's like okay I guess [TS]

  wait there's no way forward format that there's that that's a symptom of a [TS]

  bigger problem right and that and the only way out apparently was to have him [TS]

  leave anyway I thought so it was the baddest interesting an on-the-record [TS]

  take of that as I've seen [TS]

  yeah i loved i love just line from Q that that uh it was good here and we [TS]

  lost perspective and that's one of the reasons we do public data is now is [TS]

  because we want more perspective and that's that was really that was really [TS]

  good [TS]

  that was that was a that was a good thing to hear even though we all kind of [TS]

  expected that [TS]

  yeah it was good it was good to hear that they they have you know they've [TS]

  they've learned it and internalized it and change what they've done because of [TS]

  that lesson that they had to you know they got beat up for and overall I [TS]

  really think Ted sell a painted an accurate picture of Apple as it [TS]

  currently is the big giant the company that they've you know that their success [TS]

  inevitably led them to be and and you know why it means that they can't really [TS]

  be quote unquote doomed [TS]

  I creates a I think it's a good story and my quibbles about it are are ya are [TS]

  are a lot of kind of just the order of it that I feel like he he seems i don't [TS]

  know i'm not a big fan usually of the stories that take 500 words to paint a [TS]

  picture of the smell of the of the of the food at the restaurant where the [TS]

  interview is being conducted [TS]

  I don't unless unless you're gay talese right and mr. Sinatra has a cold [TS]

  see that's what I like it's that's exactly that's exactly what he's going [TS]

  right right yeah and it is and and if you like that sort of thing that I think [TS]

  that that will work for you was never mind really my cup of tea but but the [TS]

  fact is that the the the apple executives he talked to were forthcoming [TS]

  about things in a way that is not something we see very often man how [TS]

  about that picture of a factory [TS]

  man me what is beam son-of-a-bitch he's blue stealing it they're that is total [TS]

  he's gonna be your future is a male model [TS]

  I haven't seen any means with it yet but it's inevitable [TS]

  somebody sent me one and and i think it was in the context of please make more [TS]

  memes with Craig federighi peace and like eyes and what he's you know he's [TS]

  staring at you he's got he's got his hand out on the table with the wedding [TS]

  ring so its like sorry ladies any of the other thing about this way that [TS]

  impressed me but I liked was that I really think it serves the president how [TS]

  many people read fast company but for somebody who's not as into apple is I [TS]

  try to be as certainly as you try to be as a more of a lay person and someone [TS]

  who might be prone to think like a apples you know that keep hearing bad [TS]

  stuff about Apple maybe they're in trouble [TS]

  I think it was a very good way of upset of of putting their recent troubles in [TS]

  context of where the company really is that this is a very good company that [TS]

  continues to thrive that has suffered some recent hiccups that it is not a [TS]

  company that is in turmoil and if anything they're more stable than ever i [TS]

  agree i mean i could even argue that the that the the article gives too much [TS]

  voice to be you know the other side of the sort of by discussing some of these [TS]

  really dumb arguments about Apple that they're giving it too much credence at [TS]

  some point but I did appreciate that that he takes the time to back them all [TS]

  back them all down and say these are ridiculous arguments and yeah you might [TS]

  read about it a fortune but that doesn't mean that it's real and I think for for [TS]

  an audience of broader audience that that doesn't read the mac elope or [TS]

  anything like that right there they're gonna go come out away from this [TS]

  thinking oh i see now i understand more about what Apple's trying to do and not [TS]

  that they're there you know their sales are plummeting and it's a disaster and [TS]

  they're doomed and I I value that story for you for doing it and being so [TS]

  nuanced about it [TS]

  oh I know you gotta go I know that we've been going on a long time just briefly [TS]

  have you been have you been watching the olympics [TS]

  yeah I've been I've been I've been trying to I mean how are you want it's [TS]

  not humanly possible to watch the olympics and all its places like 6,000 [TS]

  take a human being who didn't sleep like eight months to watch all the land [TS]

  big stuff that's being made available on TV and I've had this but I had the [TS]

  primetime NBC on in the evening we have been watching a lot of other TV instead [TS]

  we've been you know kind of having that on while we're looking at stuff on the [TS]

  internet and ascertaining you know swimming and volleyball and whatever and [TS]

  then I've done some stuff with the with the apple TV streams and with on my iPad [TS]

  to a little bit which is the great thing about having everything available on [TS]

  video on the ipad or the apple TV here or on the web is you can pick a sport [TS]

  like if you want to see a table tennis or rugby or whatever you know if they [TS]

  have some of those maybe on cable but all of them have a feed on the internet [TS]

  I just can't help but think that the app is so bad it's the APIs comically bad [TS]

  like he really can't help but think that it was designed by people who really [TS]

  want you to watch on regular to that I got a pretty good give it given the fact [TS]

  that literally every item on the appletv says olympic sports like that's their [TS]

  happen [TS]

  level one header of every single item is olympic sport so you've got like 20 [TS]

  items that just say olympic sports instead of what the sport is like what I [TS]

  don't even know what I'd really camp it's not a new feature i really can't [TS]

  believe that the ipad app doesn't support split screen view or the [TS]

  picture-in-picture yeah well as a guy i watch soccer i watch like english [TS]

  premier league soccer and they have all those games on there too and it's it's [TS]

  been like this i think it's because they're doing a custom video player so [TS]

  that they can do their ad insertions and they want to stick a batter a banner ad [TS]

  on the screen next to their video and stuff like that so there are basically [TS]

  motivated to not do picture in picture and it drives me crazy because what i [TS]

  want to do is pop in picture-in-picture and do other stuff on the ipad which is [TS]

  the whole point of the feature and it was exactly i wanted to watch the u.s. [TS]

  men play australia was a good basketball game yesterday [TS]

  yeah and I thought this is a perfect reason i'm going to be this like the [TS]

  kids today I'm going to work on my iPad and this will be great except except it [TS]

  doesn't support any of those features [TS]

  nope oh yeah it's I I think you know they come a long way from the you know [TS]

  from the pay-per-view triple cast all that and and I feel like Comcast [TS]

  actually now that they're running the show NBC there more [TS]

  they're more open like they're running I don't know if you notice they're [TS]

  actually running sports in primetime on cable channels which they used to not do [TS]

  like when it was on primetime on ABC seen everything else went dark like [TS]

  everybody very quiet now we're gonna watch the Bob Costas and and they're [TS]

  playing with that now and they've got this gold zone channel which is like the [TS]

  NFL redzone where you can theoretically just turn it on and it was just with you [TS]

  around all of the different venues and show you different stuff that's going on [TS]

  live which is a really cool idea so I feel like in the end maybe the Olympics [TS]

  is going to be best when it's completely nonlinear and that all the only thing [TS]

  that we have this linear is a best of the day recap which is the three hours [TS]

  in NBC primetime it if I think that may be the ultimate destination of the [TS]

  olympics and it and it was obvious that was the ultimate destination maybe like [TS]

  12 years ago but it it's taken till now for maybe for Comcast NBC to realize [TS]

  it's the obvious destination it it's just so frustrating because it's [TS]

  obviously not for lack of money this is a multi-billion dollar operation so it [TS]

  and it just screams for it it is like in the old days before the internet it [TS]

  trying to cover all of these sports from all these countries on a TV channel is [TS]

  impossible [TS]

  where's the internet this is the perfect solution you can watch your favorite [TS]

  sport and you can see your country you know it it's so poorly done up it makes [TS]

  me frustrated i feel like i'm actually a little optimistic now because I feel [TS]

  like they've got the pieces in place now and that maybe they even realize we're [TS]

  there where where they need to head head ultimately they're always gonna be [TS]

  issues people get frustrated by it's like they put they spend billions of [TS]

  dollars for this so they're going to be ads and they're going to have stuff [TS]

  that's beyond behind the cable login because it's comcast I spent a lot of [TS]

  money they're going to get their money back one way or another they're going to [TS]

  get they're gonna make their money back but I feel like now they are headed in [TS]

  the right direction where this could actually be good maybe in two or four [TS]

  years where they like fully embrace the internet especially if there's an [TS]

  olympics i don't know what the next Olympics is but when when there's one [TS]

  that's completely off time zones from the United States yeah I feel like I [TS]

  feel like then they're really going to be able to embrace it because they're [TS]

  gonna have to because you know nobody's gonna nobody's gonna wanna the prime [TS]

  time steps and gonna be not live at all [TS]

  let's go back to china since Oh [TS]

  maybe then anyway I will say one good thing about being a comcast customer and [TS]

  i think i think this is what happened when I did authenticate with the app for [TS]

  my cable subscription I didn't have to sign in with username and password i [TS]

  think that comcast somehow figured out you know that I'm not you know they [TS]

  could tell them on a comcast network and yeah good enough [TS]

  yeah yeah me too and that was that was good because sometimes the [TS]

  authentication thing is though is the most broken [TS]

  yeah especially at high at high times where everybody's trying to login those [TS]

  things tend to break so i think yeah it looks and says you're on a comcast IP [TS]

  good enough [TS]

  ah I i want to say congratulations you your upgrade podcast I've the one i just [TS]

  mentioned listening to his episode 101 you guys had a hundred episodes on [TS]

  upgrade you and Mike early so that means two years its you've been going indie [TS]

  and in binary [TS]

  what is 101 it's 55 I completely I'm yeah I'm really bad i'm really that Isle [TS]

  I could work it out right like one and then 10 is and I was like oh yeah that's [TS]

  five ok got it but no thank you [TS]

  yeah it's coming up you do a podcast every every weekend it totals upto it's [TS]

  almost the reason I know that September ninth is when they did the event not [TS]

  just last year but the year before is because that was basically my last day [TS]

  at macworld yeah was tempered night [TS]

  no I of 14 so it's been almost almost two years now of doing this which is [TS]

  it's been great like you know I i think i've said this before but yet you are [TS]

  obviously an inspiration for me to go out and try to do this on my own and i [TS]

  have i've got you know I've got two kids that are going to be headed off to [TS]

  college in the next few years and um I live in the bay area which is very [TS]

  expensive place to live in my wife doesn't have a full-time job and it was [TS]

  very stressful but we have managed to make it work for two years and my wife [TS]

  was just saying to me the other day you know I i was very much in the let's give [TS]

  it six months mode [TS]

  she said when we started this and now she's coming out of that mode and like [TS]

  it's working which is great and you know you never know what's gonna happen and [TS]

  you you know better than anyone you gotta watch everything and keep in mind [TS]

  like what if this happens and what if that happens but it's been great that [TS]

  I've been able to actually live my life and do stuff that I love which i kinda [TS]

  wasn't doing at the end [TS]

  good job i know that feeling yeah you got it you know I I when I went [TS]

  full-time during fireball I don't even think I was doing a podcast yet have who [TS]

  if I was those like the whole first runner that show with Dan Benjamin we [TS]

  didn't have we never had a single sponsor we did we sure kind of put some [TS]

  feelers out and people were like podcast so we just stay with us we'll just do it [TS]

  for fun you know I mean I go I mean literally I guess we lost money on the [TS]

  show because you know we you know whatever we paid for web hosting and and [TS]

  I think like Amazon storage you know right it i never went full-time during [TS]

  fireball the idea that I'd be fifty percent of my income would be from [TS]

  podcasting wasn't even I didn't know that was possible [TS]

  I didn't think I was good at it i could not sure I am but it's well nobody knows [TS]

  what makes a good podcast even now they don't but you're right I didn't even [TS]

  have even two years ago I didn't that when I left all of my calculations were [TS]

  can I can I do a site that became six colors and can i do freelance writing [TS]

  and can i make it that right [TS]

  I even then and maybe a little from the incomparable but even then I wasn't [TS]

  really counting on what if i did some other podcasts with relay and throw [TS]

  those into the pot and now yeah it's it's a I don't know if it's 5050 but [TS]

  it's certainly a huge part if I stopped podcasting I would not be able to speak [TS]

  with as much confidence about making it work as i can because i'm also doing [TS]

  podcasting yeah my thanks also my next to you operate people can just just [TS]

  google free upgrade their relay . FM relay . mmm you'll find it there and [TS]

  there's a whole bunch of other podcast and of course you've got like 30 podcast [TS]

  at the incomparable and yeah there's a lot of them i'm not on most of them [TS]

  thankfully but yes there are a lot of them there and you know [TS]

  homebase let's face it i don't care how much time we spend podcasting where [TS]

  writers and you do your writing my primarily and if you don't you do it [TS]

  elsewhere always link it up at six colors . that that doesn't [TS]

  impact [TS]

  yeah dr. you can spell colors however you want you put you in there it [TS]

  redirects my thanks also to our three sponsor state 0 great Wi-Fi go there and [TS]

  get your Wi-Fi fixing your house fracture get your pictures paint printed [TS]

  directly on glass [TS]

  globalite who has the new boom iOS app that you can download for free just go [TS]

  get it and try for free [TS]

  thank you Jason thanks John it's always a pleasure [TS]