The Talk Show

173: ‘Fork the Universe’, With Special Guest Jason Snell


  you know I can't believe i missed the [TS]

  holiday party again is a different kind [TS]

  of anything interesting happen in the [TS]

  last few weeks now quiet peaceful [TS]

  tumbleweed roll by [TS]

  yeah you know not much apple doesn't [TS]

  really do much in the fall you have to [TS]

  laugh a little [TS]

  despite do i was talking about what the [TS]

  other day about we're on a walk and I [TS]

  said you know I feel like it's been [TS]

  going nonstop for a long time and I [TS]

  realized it totally had been going [TS]

  nonstop for a long time we went to win [TS]

  to Ireland for all and I realized like [TS]

  literally I went to the apple event in [TS]

  the next drag on a plane and went to [TS]

  this event in Southern California this [TS]

  festival over the weekend and then from [TS]

  there I went basically straight to all [TS]

  and in the middle there like I got the [TS]

  one review unit of the of the macbook [TS]

  pro and then like the day after I came [TS]

  back from Ireland I got the touch bar [TS]

  review unit with the macbook pro and it [TS]

  just it like it is non-stop like one [TS]

  thing after another all fault you know [TS]

  what I mean it's you know but it you [TS]

  know tough life for us you know I mean [TS]

  but you know it's amazing new computers [TS]

  before anybody gets them while getting [TS]

  around the globe to meet interesting [TS]

  people but it has been activated [TS]

  yeah i mean i'm not i'm not complaining [TS]

  it is it is a privilege to do this but [TS]

  uh but it's the high season [TS]

  I mean that's what I keep telling [TS]

  telling people that I season this is [TS]

  this when everything is happening for [TS]

  for Apple it's like this this time [TS]

  period in like WWDC or the craziest [TS]

  times of the year i think this is [TS]

  crazier honestly for us i have because [TS]

  just step that I don't know somehow to [TS]

  me even that several weeks long period [TS]

  between the iphone 7 coming out and the [TS]

  macbook man I don't know that somehow [TS]

  seemed jam-packed with stuff to your [TS]

  rules in Apple watch this you know two [TS]

  roles in there and yeah I mean there's a [TS]

  lot going on a lot lot of stuff going on [TS]

  anyway long story short just wasn't a [TS]

  good time for an election that i had a [TS]

  like hundred and ten percent obsessive [TS]

  interest in to know what ya do stuff [TS]

  like stuff going on it was a it was a [TS]

  busy fall I do feel like we've reached [TS]

  you know it's all subsided a little bit [TS]

  now and I I feel like that mentally I'm [TS]

  starting to shift gears I still got some [TS]

  stuff that I put off that I need to pick [TS]

  back up again but it's like mental [TS]

  shifting gears into you know holidays [TS]

  end-of-year people you know if you want [TS]

  to make a holiday stories and gift [TS]

  guides and best of yes and stuff like [TS]

  that it's starting to feel more like [TS]

  that at last night which is good guys [TS]

  like Thanksgiving six next week's oh [TS]

  here it is [TS]

  I thought it was a little bit back book [TS]

  pro review I I got all I got three of [TS]

  them i got i got the the button one [TS]

  where they call it work on the macbook [TS]

  escape [TS]

  I guess we are making to capture any [TS]

  album but you know whatever i know i got [TS]

  that the same time you did we got that [TS]

  the day of the event [TS]

  yeah they had those I i got the 13-inch [TS]

  with touch bar I don't have a week later [TS]

  about at least a week later I don't that [TS]

  sounds right days what was a week I was [TS]

  in Ireland because I which is the week [TS]

  after the event because i got an email [TS]

  from apple on like a wednesday in [TS]

  Ireland saying can you come by cupertino [TS]

  on thursday to pick up your your 13-inch [TS]

  macbook with touch bar and I was like uh [TS]

  no [TS]

  and so I didn't get that one and then I [TS]

  got the 15-inch I don't know but that [TS]

  was later 15 inches [TS]

  it was really only just a few days [TS]

  before the embargo deadline so i opened [TS]

  it and turned it on and and looked at it [TS]

  but I spent much less time with the [TS]

  15-inch simply because i already had the [TS]

  13-inch with the touch bar setup right [TS]

  with my stuff you know it's a I've got [TS]

  bbedit on it and you know i have I it's [TS]

  just there and emptied little you know [TS]

  the thing I do to wrap blockquote so [TS]

  they all look like nice markdown [TS]

  blockquote that's alright and if you're [TS]

  not that we're complaining about getting [TS]

  review units but you know onboarding to [TS]

  a new mac is a lot of work and when you [TS]

  have to do it three times in three weeks [TS]

  we go here we go again like what would [TS]

  files what do I installed come on my [TS]

  grade no i don't really want to migrate [TS]

  but then i have to install everything [TS]

  I've done you know big hook up with [TS]

  dropbox and I don't know about you I i [TS]

  also have to juggle like they're these [TS]

  hard breaks up like five authorized [TS]

  itunes computers and like not authorized [TS]

  Apple music devices [TS]

  yeah and so I'm always juggling like [TS]

  logging out of of different iPads and [TS]

  phones and stuff in order to get slots [TS]

  back to put other computers in there and [TS]

  it's a yeah so it's again not [TS]

  complaining it's it's great that we get [TS]

  to do this for our job but you know like [TS]

  that all of this stuff is not meant to [TS]

  be done as frequently as we do him so [TS]

  yeah I i I'm even little things I've run [TS]

  into a little thing where my amex card [TS]

  has a maximum limit on how many apple to [TS]

  pick up a devices that can be hooked up [TS]

  to [TS]

  uh-huh and oh yeah and you know and it's [TS]

  uu it it's magnified because it's like [TS]

  to now you get two phones when they give [TS]

  you review phone to give you one of each [TS]

  size and it's like I got iPads and stuff [TS]

  and it's like I don't even know what you [TS]

  know and some of them i foolishly left [TS]

  named John's ipad so it's like all right [TS]

  it's like what [TS]

  which one is that I don't mean what and [TS]

  I just usually the they're like updates [TS]

  that reset the name so I realized the [TS]

  other day that my ipad is called the [TS]

  ipad again it's like well I don't know [TS]

  when that happened but it's like no [TS]

  wonder I went on my device list my soft [TS]

  three things named ipad and had no idea [TS]

  which was which [TS]

  it's yeah it's a lie i have been able to [TS]

  Apple pay i've been testing the apple [TS]

  watch two and i actually I'm written [TS]

  about that yet but they can't do Apple [TS]

  pay because it's just I think my um my [TS]

  financial institutions have given up on [TS]

  me and they're like no no more devices [TS]

  for you every time I hear it's like I [TS]

  can't even forget it you know [TS]

  oh and my bank as sometimes what I've [TS]

  done is I i generally if i use a charge [TS]

  card i use my amex it's just I just use [TS]

  it everywhere and the only times I ever [TS]

  don't use it isn't a place that doesn't [TS]

  take amex [TS]

  but to get around this amex limit if I [TS]

  have a device that i'm testing from [TS]

  apple that I don't really want to spend [TS]

  i know i'm not gonna spend a ton of time [TS]

  on you know like for example at WWDC [TS]

  they gave me a an Apple watch with the [TS]

  beta of watch us three-mile which wich [TS]

  like it's like I think that's one thing [TS]

  i don't know but at some point they gave [TS]

  it to me it wasn't a new hardware it was [TS]

  just you know here you could try this [TS]

  thing out with the watch was three and I [TS]

  thought that's interesting but it's not [TS]

  just I'll just put the watches 3 beta on [TS]

  my own wife watch you know I mean and so [TS]

  I didn't you know I didn't want to go [TS]

  put this amex limit on it so i use my [TS]

  other card [TS]

  my my my bank sends me a letter in the [TS]

  mail every time I set up Apple pay that [TS]

  it's like congratulate it's so totally [TS]

  written from the perspective of like [TS]

  you're going to have one device you know [TS]

  that you do this with will tell you [TS]

  everything how it works and you know and [TS]

  I just keep it's like I I should have [TS]

  kept all the letters because i bet i've [TS]

  got 15 of them by now [TS]

  well I i think the advantage of this is [TS]

  it so easy in so many different ways [TS]

  that you do you review tech products to [TS]

  lose perspective if you're not careful [TS]

  and this is like the reverse of that [TS]

  which is there's nobody I think more [TS]

  aware of the pain of of basically [TS]

  upgrading to a new device then reviewers [TS]

  because we have to do it like with every [TS]

  device look for a while there I could [TS]

  tell you everything you need to do to [TS]

  migrate from a macbook to another [TS]

  macbook or from a powerbook to another [TS]

  power book because i was reviewing all [TS]

  the laptops at macworld and so like I [TS]

  would go through i would migrate [TS]

  everything a couple times a year and so [TS]

  I mean that's good because we get to [TS]

  experience that and I think apples got [TS]

  some issues with with the migration [TS]

  assistant on the mac and with some stuff [TS]

  they're getting better but like you know [TS]

  they've got some issues there and those [TS]

  really come out when you're migrating [TS]

  multiple times a year because regular [TS]

  people only might do it once a year for [TS]

  a phone and once every several years for [TS]

  an ipad or your Mac I i have spoken I i [TS]

  still think it's too hard on a Mac but [TS]

  yeah and I think part of it is because I [TS]

  don't [TS]

  I think part of it really is it [TS]

  technical challenge and not just a [TS]

  disinterest I think because you can you [TS]

  still have so much freedom of what to [TS]

  put we're now file system on a mac and [TS]

  it's you know really it's just [TS]

  technically not it's not you can't just [TS]

  say close the disc and open it you know [TS]

  it's because there's all sorts of stuff [TS]

  that's a different because it's [TS]

  different hardware you know I think it's [TS]

  the number one motivator why they do [TS]

  what they did desktop and documents [TS]

  thinking the way they did it was that I [TS]

  don't like their if you keep everything [TS]

  if you buy everything three App Store [TS]

  which you know some people do and and [TS]

  you're not a superpower user but you [TS]

  keep everything in documents and on the [TS]

  desktop and and then you log into a new [TS]

  mac like it will just sync your stuff [TS]

  and you're ready to go it's it's for the [TS]

  rest of us who've got you know legacy [TS]

  apps non mac app store apps all sorts of [TS]

  stuff like that and then you turn the [TS]

  migration assistant i'm not convinced [TS]

  migration assistant is doing so hot i [TS]

  tried I've tried it twice with these two [TS]

  macbook pros that I've got and it failed [TS]

  both times you know it's interesting [TS]

  i've given up on migration assistant DA [TS]

  beyond i haven't used it in a few years [TS]

  I mean and maybe I should you know give [TS]

  it another shot one of these health of [TS]

  what you just had is reading I think you [TS]

  should i what i don't recommend it [TS]

  what I have is an apple notes document i [TS]

  started this two or three years ago [TS]

  setting up a new mac and so it's the [TS]

  first thing I do is I like you know go [TS]

  through the first run I put my icloud [TS]

  guy you know go through and put my [TS]

  icloud credentials in so because I put [TS]

  my cloud credentials in my notes inks [TS]

  and write a note has a checklist of you [TS]

  know do this do this do that now it's [TS]

  you know and that's like about boarding [TS]

  script more dollars yourself yeah more [TS]

  or less and then some of the stuff I [TS]

  completely checklist right let's do this [TS]

  then do this team is already gotten so [TS]

  you don't miss a step [TS]

  yeah you know it kills me be at it will [TS]

  sink all of it some wood let's let's [TS]

  let's the nerd out free it's you and me [TS]

  we talk about baseball talk about bbedit [TS]

  BB that will let you put like all of its [TS]

  support stuff in in dropbox which is [TS]

  great and I use that but its preferences [TS]

  file does not go in dropbox and so every [TS]

  time I move to [TS]

  new Mac I either have to manually reset [TS]

  all of the preferences or I have to go [TS]

  to you know a home folder library [TS]

  application support no library [TS]

  preferences dot bare-bones BB and [TS]

  preferences and copy that file over so [TS]

  that my editor is the way I like it and [TS]

  I do that every single time I move max [TS]

  it's like one of those things on the [TS]

  checklist is I gotta move my BB at [TS]

  preferences because there they don't [TS]

  they don't cloud sync I can't fish them [TS]

  out dropbox yeah I've been meaning 5 [TS]

  used that ever since bb-8 added that [TS]

  feature [TS]

  I mean it's couple years ago at least at [TS]

  first I really liked it but it's grown [TS]

  to annoy me because I end up with like [TS]

  the same documents open because i also [TS]

  have the preference set to ya restore [TS]

  open documents and are all almost all [TS]

  almost everything I reckon bbedit is [TS]

  stored in dropbox so when I go to a [TS]

  different machine and use bbedit their [TS]

  dropbox has the same document and so [TS]

  it's open in two and I don't I I fat [TS]

  have found that I don't want that [TS]

  because I don't try to leave too many [TS]

  documents open [TS]

  yeah and and oftentimes I you know i'll [TS]

  leave one place and finish on the other [TS]

  and then I go back and it's like oh I [TS]

  don't want that you know its opening [TS]

  documents i'm done with because it lost [TS]

  state because i'm not you know keeping [TS]

  them in open and sink myself and that I [TS]

  i agree i've noticed that but i like the [TS]

  fact that like all my scripts and [TS]

  clippings and things like that are just [TS]

  sort of there everywhere that's nice i [TS]

  do too but I the ni dai know it's going [TS]

  to annoy me to go back to the old way [TS]

  where if i write a new script or just [TS]

  one of my scripts just tweak one of my [TS]

  scripts that to get that prepared script [TS]

  to percolate everywhere i'd have to do [TS]

  it manually [TS]

  you know Ram zip up the the I don't know [TS]

  maybe what I should do is just turn off [TS]

  the preference to reopen documents and [TS]

  see I don't know I've had it but it's a [TS]

  mild annoyance that i've had i've been [TS]

  thinking for like a year i should like [TS]

  dig into this and and redo it but I I [TS]

  don't another so so many things that we [TS]

  do with our computers that are like it's [TS]

  annoying but it doesn't you got up you [TS]

  gotta clear the bar of i'm going to sit [TS]

  down for an hour and figure out what the [TS]

  hell is going on and so that you're just [TS]

  like me I'm not gonna leave it and [TS]

  probably do we do you have more than an [TS]

  hour of misery me [TS]

  maybe maybe not but it's just enough i [TS]

  do that all the time with like [TS]

  automation stuff where automation is [TS]

  great but it's gotta you gotta clear the [TS]

  time to like do it and once you do you [TS]

  like yeah i-i've got this automation [TS]

  thing but so often it's just like yeah [TS]

  I'm not gonna bother I I it's close [TS]

  enough and it's not enough annoyance for [TS]

  me to break out an hour to try and [TS]

  figure it out so you just leave it [TS]

  I actually you know it's funny you [TS]

  should say that i actually did a couple [TS]

  of those things last week as a sort of [TS]

  get my mind off of other things you know [TS]

  my mind off the internet and I found it [TS]

  very difficult to to write honestly got [TS]

  a what i read a thing you know that we [TS]

  just keep going mad here and I know [TS]

  Merlin and I talked about this last week [TS]

  extensively you know blah blah the [TS]

  election and hard feelings but I saw a [TS]

  couple of other people with sight Steven [TS]

  Levy and a good thing on his back [TS]

  channel he had everything was just a day [TS]

  after the election but I i have a half [TS]

  of me says I should just charge ahead [TS]

  and write some you know typically daring [TS]

  fireball topic stuff because other [TS]

  people who read daring fireball i'm sure [TS]

  would more than even usual love to have [TS]

  their mind occupied by this you know to [TS]

  get it off thoughts of the election and [TS]

  and president huh [TS]

  Trump yeah but then there's another half [TS]

  of me that says that is it's it's so [TS]

  it's inappropriate right that did with [TS]

  something this the you know that seismic [TS]

  level happens it's just it's just [TS]

  foolish to write something that is so [TS]

  off topic and I'm sorry I i found myself [TS]

  unusually jammed last week in terms of [TS]

  actually getting anything written by [TS]

  what i did is i occupied myself by doing [TS]

  a couple like Apple script things that [TS]

  I've been meaning to write for myself [TS]

  and it really it helped I this sort of [TS]

  thing where I once i start like writing [TS]

  an apple script and I'm yeah I'm because [TS]

  half of it would for me always with [TS]

  Apple script is what the hell is the [TS]

  syntax were black [TS]

  ok i find myself I cad [TS]

  our can go by and I haven't had any [TS]

  thoughts of the election and I'm and [TS]

  it's like the best our my day was [TS]

  writing yeah what is it here I've got it [TS]

  just opened its a apple script that will [TS]

  create a new text file at the current [TS]

  right in the current Finder window [TS]

  well that's nice yeah i mean i I've [TS]

  it'sit's funny we're talking about this [TS]

  because the as we record this i think [TS]

  that the news kind of broke today that [TS]

  Sal's ago Ian who is the automation an [TS]

  applescript product manager at apple for [TS]

  years is no longer employed by Apple I [TS]

  didn't know that [TS]

  oh yeah yeah i Justi just mentioned he [TS]

  did it he did a presentation at the mac [TS]

  tech conference today and and I'm not I [TS]

  I just say i'm sad but I'm not really [TS]

  surprised because i'm not sure Apple's I [TS]

  has been on that particular ball for a [TS]

  long time but you know and it's not for [TS]

  everybody and I when I talk people know [TS]

  that i do automation stuff and they're [TS]

  like oh you know I it's hard to get into [TS]

  and and that's all true but then you [TS]

  know every and again I do leave things [TS]

  for a long time and sometimes it's like [TS]

  a well you know I should automate that [TS]

  but every time I do one of those I [TS]

  finally put in that work not only as a [TS]

  kind of a pleasure to solve the problem [TS]

  i am I think to myself this must be what [TS]

  computer programmers feel all the time [TS]

  but you know once it's done i guess i [TS]

  can hand it to other people sometimes if [TS]

  they wanted I've done that a little bit [TS]

  and you know things get passed around [TS]

  and it can make it just can make your [TS]

  life better like I i have a bunch of [TS]

  things now that are there not even Apple [TS]

  scripts their their shell scripts that [TS]

  run inside a service so basically you [TS]

  know you basically make an automator [TS]

  thing that says do the shell scripts [TS]

  yeah and and then you want that table [TS]

  current selection as input and pass it [TS]

  to the script [TS]

  yeah and so I did that for like I've got [TS]

  I've got all these scripts that either [TS]

  i'm i'm cool you know [TS]

  clicking on something in the finder and [TS]

  and doing a keyboard shortcut or I'm i'm [TS]

  choosing it from the the contextual menu [TS]

  to do all sorts of like audio processing [TS]

  and stuff for podcasts and I just do it [TS]

  in in its it's all scripts running in [TS]

  the background and I got a lot of [TS]

  scripts from Marco Arment who is very [TS]

  comfortable with the command line and [TS]

  just issues all this things from the [TS]

  command line like I'm not gonna do that [TS]

  I'm gonna put it in a little [TS]

  you know I'm going to wrap it an [TS]

  automator and just hit a keyboard [TS]

  shortcut and do it and it's great and [TS]

  every time I do one of those things I [TS]

  think to myself I can't believe I went [TS]

  months where I was bringing up the [TS]

  terminal and dragging and folders to get [TS]

  the pathnames and then issuing the shell [TS]

  scripting commands and all that now only [TS]

  do is point & click and that's the [TS]

  that's the great thing about Mac [TS]

  automation stuff and iOS to really is [TS]

  once once it's done you know it's out of [TS]

  the way all you do is go Boop and magic [TS]

  things happen and you know that's that's [TS]

  that's that's the abstracted computer [TS]

  user interface in a nutshell right there [TS]

  is you shouldn't know what the steps are [TS]

  you should be able to build the steps [TS]

  and then put it aside and just keep [TS]

  doing your work there and some of the [TS]

  utilities you know that are along those [TS]

  lines like text expander and keyboard [TS]

  maestro I think you are my star does i'm [TS]

  almost certain text expander does is [TS]

  there's a way if you go to like the [TS]

  about box or something [TS]

  it shows you how much time you say since [TS]

  you've been using it and if you've been [TS]

  using i I've got some of these utilities [TS]

  where I somehow it it's like I look and [TS]

  it tells me I've saved you know like [TS]

  like 10 hours of Emma for so many years [TS]

  but that's like a and each little step i [TS]

  get one of them for me i fade published [TS]

  this somewhere i don't know i don't [TS]

  think it's on just or something like [TS]

  that I've written about on during [TS]

  fireball but I have a very particular [TS]

  style of title casing i use on daring [TS]

  fireball alright where is it you know [TS]

  everything you know big word gets [TS]

  uppercase letter and then there's a [TS]

  specific set of little words that are [TS]

  not like of a and uh and it can be [TS]

  tricky though to do it to to automate it [TS]

  because if you can be fooled by things [TS]

  like quotes in the text that's being [TS]

  selected because then that should be [TS]

  capitalized if it's the first word in a [TS]

  quote because it's like the title of the [TS]

  thing so I back together a script years [TS]

  ago that gets it right 99.9 percent of [TS]

  the time and I have a exactly like you [TS]

  know like you said it's an automator [TS]

  script or our service with that shell [TS]

  script running in it and have it mapped [TS]

  to shift shift command T for ya title [TS]

  case [TS]

  and there are some I I think about how [TS]

  much time that has saved me over the [TS]

  years and it's it's just unbelievable [TS]

  and but before I wrote it even though [TS]

  i've been using it for years I think [TS]

  we're all those years I was like arrow [TS]

  arrow arrow shift and we type the letter [TS]

  arrow arrow it's crazy [TS]

  yeah it'sit's um I mean that's a keeper [TS]

  my sister tells me save seven hours by [TS]

  the way i just looked it goes back to [TS]

  regular expressions right i mean you did [TS]

  you write the chapter in the BB at [TS]

  manual about regular expressions that [TS]

  you know i know but the second half of [TS]

  it is so I i think this is first I want [TS]

  to take too much credit [TS]

  the regular expression chapter and [TS]

  bbedit was there when i started but BB [TS]

  it was using a very old regular [TS]

  expression library [TS]

  it was really a derivative of the flight [TS]

  of the original unix one guy named Henry [TS]

  somebody somebody wrote it and it only [TS]

  had like the basic regular expression [TS]

  surprised it was almost more like a [TS]

  glorified wildcards yeah and all the [TS]

  fancy stuff that you can do when you [TS]

  read that chapter and you're like holy [TS]

  crap was added when i was there and so I [TS]

  wrote the group you know they had added [TS]

  onto the chapter to write all the pcre [TS]

  yet up all right [TS]

  yeah that's anyway that that's I i tell [TS]

  people about crap about regular [TS]

  expressions and then a that same look as [TS]

  when i talk about automator if you talk [TS]

  about shell scripting which is like I [TS]

  don't want to learn it and understand it [TS]

  i don't know and i get i get that but [TS]

  like especially when I when I would talk [TS]

  to writers and editors about crap I'd be [TS]

  like you understand text is what you do [TS]

  for a living i'm telling you if you [TS]

  bought it like by Jeff freedoms book but [TS]

  you know or read the BBA chapter there [TS]

  are things in there that you know you if [TS]

  you learn it all of a sudden you'll be [TS]

  sitting there thinking oh man I can't [TS]

  believe I need to do this this is going [TS]

  to take me an hour and if you know the [TS]

  language of grip if you know those [TS]

  symbols you can do it in two minutes and [TS]

  it had only happen once okay and you [TS]

  realize that it is because you know it [TS]

  is a life skill that you need to have [TS]

  i I'll tell you the truth is a true [TS]

  story I I didn't learn regular [TS]

  expressions while i was in college even [TS]

  though I was a bbedit nerd Comp Sci [TS]

  major I I did it just look I i mean i [TS]

  think the farthest i ever got was like [TS]

  dot plus and dot star which is you know [TS]

  just more like like old cars wildcards [TS]

  find everything and I just never saw the [TS]

  need for it and like a year or so after [TS]

  college I got a temp job at the [TS]

  philadelphia inquirer in the advertising [TS]

  department where they had a bunch of [TS]

  Excel spreadsheets with all of the ad [TS]

  rates for everything and it was each [TS]

  department had their own thing in each [TS]

  one had like seven pages or 12 pages of [TS]

  add in a you know a matrix you know so [TS]

  it keeping them in excel as where the [TS]

  business people set them made total [TS]

  sense and then you know they're be [TS]

  graphic designers who turn them into a [TS]

  book that they could send out the people [TS]

  so I got hired to do these books because [TS]

  I could do graphic design and so I did [TS]

  the first one and this is that everybody [TS]

  did it but there was all sorts of [TS]

  gibberish in columns that wasn't public [TS]

  we know it was it must have made sense [TS]

  for the business people who use the [TS]

  Excel spreadsheet but what it didn't [TS]

  need to go in there and so the way that [TS]

  every you know it was done before and [TS]

  the way I did the first book was you i [TS]

  just went in and edit each column by [TS]

  hand and it was just you know tab delete [TS]

  tap delete and and just pages and pages [TS]

  and pages and pages and you know couple [TS]

  of days work easily i may be a week's [TS]

  work for the whole book mostly just [TS]

  deleting crap and i thought there's got [TS]

  to be a better way and I thought about [TS]

  that i think this is the sort of stuff [TS]

  regular expressions are supposed to [TS]

  solve and so I wrote I just felt like a [TS]

  day writing like that just a couple of [TS]

  regular expressions and bbedit and then [TS]

  so i went from excel to text bbedit to [TS]

  just run a couple of saved grep patterns [TS]

  imported it into the document and I was [TS]

  done and I literally mean literally [TS]

  turned like a week's work of work for [TS]

  each book into about like two hours [TS]

  and so I just what I acted as though i [TS]

  didn't write the script and just static [TS]

  but you know roll [TS]

  browse the web but it's that that's [TS]

  actually going out of Excel is that's [TS]

  like a pro tip for for all this stuff to [TS]

  is like I can't tell you how many times [TS]

  I've had something in Excel that's been [TS]

  a disaster and I just selected and paste [TS]

  into bbedit comes in his tab delimited [TS]

  and where you save it out as a [TS]

  tab-delimited file and you and you do [TS]

  all of the crazy tech stuff and you just [TS]

  make sure that they're there are tabs [TS]

  between the field and right bring it [TS]

  back into excel and you're like look [TS]

  yeah it was it was all it was an excel [TS]

  all along but it wasn't you you know you [TS]

  completely take it out you x we're [TS]

  taking multiple columns in excel and I [TS]

  pulled them out and then kind of like [TS]

  mix them and match them and and and and [TS]

  reassemble them in the right way and [TS]

  then you paste them back in and it's [TS]

  like you know it's like that you never [TS]

  left excel but they totally came out of [TS]

  excel and it's not like you can't do [TS]

  some wild card stuff in excel but you [TS]

  probably right visual basic script to do [TS]

  things too but for me it was just like I [TS]

  get this back to text and can i can i [TS]

  write a couple of pattern matching [TS]

  search and replaces that solve this [TS]

  problem and usually the answer is yeah [TS]

  and you can take an hour for can do in [TS]

  10 minutes [TS]

  find that it i mean literally wonderful [TS]

  web literally terrible of weeks weeks of [TS]

  work in two hours of work and I just got [TS]

  paid for weeks or I felt like I deserved [TS]

  it huh yeah i would just say this one [TS]

  last thing [TS]

  it was a long time ago must have been [TS]

  2001 or so when i wrote that that the [TS]

  second half of the bbedit group chapter [TS]

  I would still say it is one of the [TS]

  pieces of writing that I am most proud [TS]

  of in my entire life because I've people [TS]

  have told me many times when they find [TS]

  out that i wrote it they're like oh my [TS]

  god that was the first time regular [TS]

  persons ever made sense to me and I [TS]

  can't take credit for the whole chapter [TS]

  but I did take a pass through the early [TS]

  part just because that was my goal is I [TS]

  do feel like I have a knack for regular [TS]

  expressions [TS]

  that's the one area of programming where [TS]

  I'm better than almost anybody it's I [TS]

  just ice I really am good at figuring [TS]

  out how to create the syntax to match [TS]

  what I want to match [TS]

  and ends up creating these things that [TS]

  most people look at me [TS]

  they're like what the hell yeah i really [TS]

  want i think that's the problem with [TS]

  with regular expressions readability [TS]

  like people see them anything about that [TS]

  it's nonsense I can't do it so no if you [TS]

  learn it's actually fairly [TS]

  straightforward [TS]

  not all of them but most of them but [TS]

  they look like nonsense [TS]

  well I just thought me know but this is [TS]

  something this is I get the perfect [TS]

  combination for me because i have a [TS]

  knack for explaining things and i have a [TS]

  knack for regular expressions and in [TS]

  hindsight I still feel you know what is [TS]

  it [TS]

  14 15 years later I'd I i still feel [TS]

  it's one of the best things I've ever [TS]

  ever written [TS]

  yeah yeah I love that chapter that i [TS]

  mentioned Jeff riedel's O'Reilly book [TS]

  about this is great but it's from [TS]

  possession of a you know longtime unix [TS]

  guy and he talks about scripting a lot [TS]

  in that like shell and perl scripting [TS]

  and for me the most direct application [TS]

  was bbedit so the BBA chapter is a much [TS]

  more distilled clear approach to this [TS]

  then I love that freedom book and I used [TS]

  to reference at all the time but the BB [TS]

  the chapter is a much more simple gentle [TS]

  introduction [TS]

  yeah I love it I love the freedom book [TS]

  too and i read I've read both editions [TS]

  maybe three editions and there might be [TS]

  a third I don't know every time there's [TS]

  a new addition there is a third and i [TS]

  have all three copies and I've read them [TS]

  all covered it is but it's a i would i [TS]

  would definitely say it is it it this [TS]

  Friedel book is so comprehensive and so [TS]

  well done that it's I don't know that [TS]

  I've ever read any book on any subject [TS]

  where you could say well there's no need [TS]

  for anybody else to ever write a book on [TS]

  this again but I would honestly say that [TS]

  that's the case with freedoms book on [TS]

  regular expressions and I just can't see [TS]

  how anybody else would sit would say [TS]

  well I'll take the time to write a [TS]

  technical book which is really hard on [TS]

  this subject when there's a book that [TS]

  covers it [TS]

  both perfectly and extensively all right [TS]

  maybe I'll take a break how about I take [TS]

  a break here and think the first friend [TS]

  of the show [TS]

  it's our good friends good good friend [TS]

  Casper Casper they make obsessively [TS]

  engineer mattresses and shockingly fair [TS]

  prices go to Casper calm / the talk show [TS]

  and used code the talk show and you'll [TS]

  say fifty bucks towards your mattress [TS]

  with one exception hold on i'll tell you [TS]

  what that is [TS]

  so here's the deal I've told you this [TS]

  before I'll say it again Casper has [TS]

  created one perfect type of mattress [TS]

  it's it's a combination of like memory [TS]

  foam and some other stuff that's just [TS]

  the right blend of types of things so [TS]

  you don't have to pick between six [TS]

  different types of mattresses that you [TS]

  know what the hell how do you know what [TS]

  the differences these guys it really is [TS]

  sort of like the Apple attitude taken [TS]

  two mattresses trust us will do all the [TS]

  work will make one type of mattress and [TS]

  then all you have to do is pick the size [TS]

  that's it that is it's the just seems to [TS]

  me this is how a mattress company should [TS]

  do it now in addition to that because [TS]

  they sell they make them they right here [TS]

  in United States in fact and they sell [TS]

  them directly to you you just go there [TS]

  they cut out the middleman and it [TS]

  enables them to keep their prices [TS]

  incredibly lower than the mainstream big [TS]

  brand mattresses you find in traditional [TS]

  mattress stores premium mattress is [TS]

  often start at well over 1,500 casper [TS]

  mattresses cost just 500 for twin 754 [TS]

  full 854 queen and just 954 a king so [TS]

  you can get a king from them for less [TS]

  than like a twin from a lot of the other [TS]

  big brands crazy there and like I said [TS]

  they're made right here in America now [TS]

  biggest thing you think how am I going [TS]

  to buy a thousand-dollar mattress and [TS]

  not even try it you have to worry about [TS]

  they have a hundred knight home trial if [TS]

  you don't love it they will pick it up [TS]

  at your house give you a full refund no [TS]

  hard sell [TS]

  it's not like trying to cancel your [TS]

  cable it it's something like that you [TS]

  just say i want to send it back and they [TS]

  say ok when you know and then somebody [TS]

  shows up and they take the mattress away [TS]

  and you get your money back and that's [TS]

  it I've had readers Casper's been a [TS]

  sponsor long enough i've gotten emails [TS]

  from readers who have done that and they [TS]

  said i can't believe how you know can't [TS]

  believe how easy it was to actually just [TS]

  send it back because they actually you [TS]

  know they didn't believe that it was [TS]

  going to be easy because that sounds too [TS]

  good to be true [TS]

  but that's how confident Casper is in [TS]

  your mattress get yours today hundred [TS]

  Knights in your own home they have a dog [TS]

  mattress even that's a new product and [TS]

  that's the one that you don't get 50 [TS]

  bucks on because it's a lower price but [TS]

  if you have a if you have a dog get him [TS]

  a good mattress go check it out [TS]

  I've had readers tell me this is a thing [TS]

  when i first did this read i didn't know [TS]

  that the discount it apply to the dog [TS]

  one so I had a couple of readers who [TS]

  said hey I've got my dog the mattress [TS]

  but i didn't get 50 bucks off but I [TS]

  don't care because my dog loves the [TS]

  mattress so that's that's the exception [TS]

  go to Casper calm / the talk show and [TS]

  remember that code the talkshow to say [TS]

  fifty bucks on any human sized mattress [TS]

  maybe that would get my dog off my couch [TS]

  i love doing sponsor reads I've gone [TS]

  from having it be the part of this job [TS]

  that I hate to part that I i love i [TS]

  think that makes the I'm not to get [TS]

  podcast e inside baseball but I think [TS]

  that's make makes the reads better once [TS]

  when you can't either a couple podcast i [TS]

  listen to where you know the ads are our [TS]

  part of the entertainment and you just [TS]

  can't you know you cannot listen to them [TS]

  you can tune out you can't skip you [TS]

  really gotta pay attention because they [TS]

  went they they put their personality [TS]

  into them and you know and that I think [TS]

  that makes the difference if it's if [TS]

  it's like a hostage video or something [TS]

  it's a lot less entertaining but if it's [TS]

  a if it's part of the fun [TS]

  then it's a lot better I can't even tell [TS]

  you how many emails I got from people [TS]

  about last week's show with Maryland [TS]

  where they're a just thinking was like [TS]

  oh my god I needed that you know uh huh [TS]

  you know for the election even they're [TS]

  like oh my god sponsor reach so good i [TS]

  will have to do is take a mental break [TS]

  here and just say I I don't have time to [TS]

  respond to all of my email but I got so [TS]

  much email never at most emails I've [TS]

  gotten about an episode of the show in [TS]

  as long as i can remember from people [TS]

  last week and all of it I i honestly [TS]

  didn't see one that was I honestly [TS]

  thought there'd be some from Trump [TS]

  people or you know people who just don't [TS]

  want to hear about people who are upset [TS]

  about the way the election turned out [TS]

  you know go back to tech dummy i didn't [TS]

  get any of that and which was sort of [TS]

  our goal that was the way you know that [TS]

  we approached in what we talked about [TS]

  but I got so much email from people [TS]

  thanking us for that so i just want to [TS]

  say to all of you who listen thank you [TS]

  for listening and thank you for the good [TS]

  words i have a podcast question for you [TS]

  Jason you don't answer [TS]

  do you do any other podcast regularly i [TS]

  occasionally so you here in there [TS]

  occasionally podcast yeah yeah just some [TS]

  time from time you mean like all per day [TS]

  is like that I guess I got a bug up my [TS]

  butt recently about something that I had [TS]

  never thought about before and I this is [TS]

  the sort of thing that I tend to think [TS]

  about I can't believe I didn't really [TS]

  think that much about it when I set up [TS]

  the talkshow to be on daring fireball [TS]

  which is the fact that I've been doing [TS]

  it I've always done it it and most of [TS]

  the podcast almost all the podcasts I [TS]

  see do it but putting the episode number [TS]

  in the title and making the episode [TS]

  number a major part you know like that [TS]

  the main anchor on the URL that the like [TS]

  dead on our websites on six colors and [TS]

  during fireball we don't have post [TS]

  number you know 420 3123 right now that [TS]

  was a good one [TS]

  yeah a little-little 20 3323 why why do [TS]

  we do this and and you know TV shows [TS]

  don't do it I mean they sort of do now [TS]

  the right where you're like when you [TS]

  watch digitally you do you know you're [TS]

  going through season 1 episode 7 of [TS]

  american horror story or whatever so [TS]

  there is right there's sort of that on [TS]

  TV but I don't know I I it's a good it's [TS]

  a good question like why why do we [TS]

  number podcasts and you you I can always [TS]

  tell what number it is because you [TS]

  actually do number them in the like the [TS]

  slug of of the talk show but not like in [TS]

  the in what people see just like the [TS]

  real descriptions right I i well [TS]

  but I have them in the metadata for the [TS]

  show so like when you're looking at your [TS]

  podcast player it will say 1 773 yeah [TS]

  well I switched recently I did switch [TS]

  just a couple weeks ago from putting EP [TS]

  period space the digital you know [TS]

  representation of the number colon i [TS]

  took out the EP because i thought you [TS]

  know what it its craft like that I yeah [TS]

  I don't like I like clean urls I don't [TS]

  like seen dot PHP at the end of the URL [TS]

  i don't like seeing all the gibberish [TS]

  and like the medium URLs I don't like [TS]

  tracking in a URL i like the URL to have [TS]

  every single bit of it be meaningful and [TS]

  I same way with like the titles i don't [TS]

  but it seems to me [TS]

  yeah I don't know their seem it part of [TS]

  me thinks that part of it is that you [TS]

  want to know which one's the newest [TS]

  episode in your podcast player and that [TS]

  maybe it actually is useful because it [TS]

  you it's it's a more confident way of [TS]

  making sure that your podcast player [TS]

  whatever software it is whichever sort [TS]

  order it's using top to bottom or bottom [TS]

  to top you know which one's the newest [TS]

  one [TS]

  uh-huh so I'm keeping it i like when i [TS]

  made the change to get rid of the e [TS]

  period i was on the verge of just [TS]

  getting rid of him period and maybe just [TS]

  putting them in the URL but then I [TS]

  thought you know what I think there's a [TS]

  reason everybody does it matter with you [TS]

  think I don't know if it's a reason that [TS]

  is I don't know if it's a good reason or [TS]

  if it's more just sort of continuity I [TS]

  mean some of it is reference why is to [TS]

  be able to say it's this one like saying [TS]

  like the macworld we had volumes and [TS]

  numbers like internally we would have [TS]

  liked you turning us a story and it [TS]

  would be 24 dash 0 for and that was [TS]

  literally 2404 was like the tooth the [TS]

  april two thousand eight issue or [TS]

  something is like vol.24 number four and [TS]

  and that was partially because in a [TS]

  fight in the file system like it would [TS]

  sort right that all the 2400 force would [TS]

  go together and then there you have 25 [TS]

  405 and it would just kind of keep going [TS]

  like that so I think some of it is just [TS]

  sort of like finding an internal [TS]

  structure and for podcast you could do [TS]

  it by date you could literally say you [TS]

  know this is the one for the you know [TS]

  this day in November of 2016 and the [TS]

  metadata certainly supplies that so you [TS]

  could just you could just do that you [TS]

  could have nothing [TS]

  I don't know as a kid growing up I [TS]

  really loved reading comic books and [TS]

  comic books always had that like this is [TS]

  amazing spider-man number 183 and and [TS]

  they would have footnotes and they would [TS]

  say no spider-man face the Scorpion [TS]

  before an amazing spider-man number 83 [TS]

  and send him to prison and you'll [TS]

  account number III yes if only I had [TS]

  that issue i could read that now and i [TS]

  was part of what appeals to me about the [TS]

  podcast numbering scheme is that which [TS]

  is just it lets you hang a number on it [TS]

  and say for reference sake this is what [TS]

  it is rather than saying season one [TS]

  number three or just giving you a date [TS]

  but I don't know if that's a great [TS]

  reason to do it [TS]

  I'm probably also the the other thought [TS]

  I had this since the incomparable is now [TS]

  at 326 episodes I think maybe it was a [TS]

  it made sense when you did 10 episodes [TS]

  of a podcast in the early its podcasting [TS]

  and now there are these podcasts that [TS]

  have hundreds and hundreds of episodes [TS]

  were pretty soon if not already there [TS]

  will very soon be many podcast with with [TS]

  a thousand-plus episodes tomorrow so [TS]

  hannah it's sort of crazy marco was [TS]

  saying on ATP a couple an episode or two [TS]

  ago because he knows because he runs so [TS]

  Radio One's get it he said that the real [TS]

  they're already there [TS]

  yeah at the end they do because there's [TS]

  radio stations that will publish five or [TS]

  six podcast today like it meaning like [TS]

  the 15 or 12 hour three our four of the [TS]

  you know the sports fans podcast in the [TS]

  morning [TS]

  comments okay you'll have episode 1500 [TS]

  crazy the comic-book analogy is pretty [TS]

  good guess the best for me is it gives [TS]

  you something to hang on sequentially [TS]

  and say look we've done a lot of these [TS]

  and and then I that with incomparable I [TS]

  mean even though we built an index and [TS]

  one of the reasons that we did end up [TS]

  using using movable-type which you use [TS]

  on during [TS]

  rball for the incomparable CMS is [TS]

  because i wanted a I wanted an index of [TS]

  of topics and so I've got an index of [TS]

  topics so if somebody wants to see [TS]

  what's that episode where where John [TS]

  grouper and John Syracuse to talk about [TS]

  the Godfather you can look up the [TS]

  godfather and it won't be like it's this [TS]

  number right but still people will email [TS]

  me tweet me post on Facebook whatever [TS]

  they'll say was that episode about [TS]

  whatever and it there is something nice [TS]

  about being able to say that was number [TS]

  32 and just become point I'm gonna be [TS]

  like it's that one that number i don't [TS]

  know it's like a little handle for an [TS]

  episode [TS]

  yeah the alternative would be the just [TS]

  look at the dates just happened but that [TS]

  doesn't show up that's not gonna show up [TS]

  in the list in your podcast player [TS]

  well but that's maybe a self-fulfilling [TS]

  prophecy right right i mean i think [TS]

  maybe podcast player you I is is in part [TS]

  based on the idea that a lot of podcasts [TS]

  organize themselves by numbers but [TS]

  overcast has it has a date field right [TS]

  and there are dates for every episode [TS]

  and in overcast and i would imagine most [TS]

  podcast players or are kinda like that [TS]

  and certainly if a podcast weren't [TS]

  numbered I'm sure they would all be like [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah but if you if I'd like made my not [TS]

  numbered or didn't put the numbers in [TS]

  the titles it's not going to change it [TS]

  you know i mean it's the collective [TS]

  decision that the broadcast industry as [TS]

  a whole is made to do that [TS]

  yes it is it's more fun for me to say we [TS]

  talked about raiders of the lost ark and [TS]

  the incomparable number eight then it is [TS]

  to say October 17 2010 episode was that [TS]

  that was that the gap in my appearances [TS]

  on the uncomfortable with it because we [TS]

  laughed about I was just on recently [TS]

  like you just said to talk about the [TS]

  Godfather with John turkeys in a few [TS]

  other and forget their names sorry [TS]

  because I went there was a bunch it was [TS]

  it was great I had a great time I I [TS]

  can't count the number of people who [TS]

  made the crack on twitter that they [TS]

  can't believe that all of us long-winded [TS]

  podcasters made a podcast about the [TS]

  Godfather that was shorter than [TS]

  Godfather [TS]

  but it was at it that I hadn't been on [TS]

  since Reuters that was episode aid [TS]

  yeah that was six is basically six years [TS]

  October 10-2 October 16 other than a day [TS]

  we were in my interview for my david [TS]

  letterman episode which was I yeah but [TS]

  in terms of like being on the panel yeah [TS]

  we want to mate 2 323 that's fine that's [TS]

  fine i tried a couple of times to get [TS]

  you on it's like you're busy and and I I [TS]

  want to like with Merlin i kinda want to [TS]

  deploy you guys tactically I don't want [TS]

  to be like I want to ask you when [TS]

  there's something I got this really good [TS]

  news like I for like a couple years I [TS]

  don't think we're going to the godfather [TS]

  to get siracusa when asked John Gruber [TS]

  you know what will make we're gonna make [TS]

  it happen and we finally made it happen [TS]

  was great to get somebody to go to miss [TS]

  you know any chance to talk about able [TS]

  to go to is worth it [TS]

  although we didn't make it happen until [TS]

  a bogota was actually dead [TS]

  yeah well mr. maybe we can maybe that [TS]

  was what I was waiting for just I wanted [TS]

  able to pass on before we talked about [TS]

  him [TS]

  I like this is so amazing i literally at [TS]

  just five seconds ago got a DM from rich [TS]

  single creator video asking if I'd heard [TS]

  that salad left Apple yeah west dive I [TS]

  was spooked I was like is he listening [TS]

  do we have a live broadcast that I don't [TS]

  know that I should have turned off the [TS]

  live stream for being competent be on [TS]

  everyone's been talking about him but [TS]

  then I realized that asking have I heard [TS]

  means he's not spoken but that was kinda [TS]

  spooky given that we we spent a good [TS]

  chance the last 45 minutes talking about [TS]

  bbedit and automation and tell ya [TS]

  new macbook pros [TS]

  yeah i read i really enjoyed your review [TS]

  I thank you often think of when I write [TS]

  these reviews I don't know if you feel [TS]

  the same way but I write them and [TS]

  sometimes I feel like I i know that i've [TS]

  got this like I'm might I I don't you [TS]

  know I don't care of other people agree [TS]

  with me or not but my I know that what [TS]

  I'm saying about this i'm certain of [TS]

  other times I feel like I haven't had [TS]

  enough time or it's it's [TS]

  something a lot of times it's just that [TS]

  I feel like I have enough time but at [TS]

  other times it's like I'm not sure that [TS]

  what I care about is representative of [TS]

  enough people and I kind of had that [TS]

  worried with the reviewer wrote of these [TS]

  macbook pros because i know that there's [TS]

  a lot of people who are disappointed in [TS]

  just the basic idea of the direction [TS]

  apple is taking them on but I read a [TS]

  whole bunch of the reviews from people [TS]

  who I really respect like you enjoy a [TS]

  stern it goes on and i read a whole [TS]

  bunch of them after you know after after [TS]

  my review and it really seemed to me [TS]

  like a very large consensus of that [TS]

  these are pretty good machines [TS]

  yeah I tried to mean because the way [TS]

  we've got kind of strung out i got to [TS]

  write a piece after the apple event with [TS]

  that was basically quick hands-on with [TS]

  that 13-inch macbook escape and I got to [TS]

  I got to use it for a week and travel [TS]

  and then write another piece about it by [TS]

  the time I got to the touch bar one I [TS]

  felt like I kind of addressed the issues [TS]

  about like peoples disappointment i [TS]

  rather than I think I macworld column [TS]

  about people's disappointment and what [TS]

  that meant for like why kind of Apple [TS]

  let everything build up and and and [TS]

  people kind of this was a thing they [TS]

  could focus on some of their [TS]

  disappointment and let it out and and so [TS]

  I felt like by the time i get a touch [TS]

  bar review I could like it was great [TS]

  because I could just write about the [TS]

  touch bar and was like I i wrote a [TS]

  couple sections about the rest of the [TS]

  computer but really it was an essay [TS]

  about the touch bar in touch ID because [TS]

  that was the thing that was little was [TS]

  left and frankly was the thing i found [TS]

  most interesting and its really why I [TS]

  love 3i honest I'm not just saying that [TS]

  because you're on the show in your [TS]

  palates really why I of all the reviews [TS]

  i really think i like year's best [TS]

  because i spent a relatively little [TS]

  amount on touch bar just because I had [TS]

  so much else to say about sort of the [TS]

  bigger picture and the other thing I [TS]

  thought was that your video which [TS]

  focused almost entirely on the touch bar [TS]

  was super instructive in like a in the [TS]

  difference between like the way Apple [TS]

  would do a promotional video [TS]

  about the touch bar in fact did and they [TS]

  showed it during the event yours was [TS]

  focused on look when you're doing real [TS]

  stuff like here's you know just stupid [TS]

  little things you know like the fact [TS]

  that you can it when you adjust the [TS]

  brightness or the volume you can just [TS]

  put your finger on it and slide without [TS]

  tapping on the actual thing that shows [TS]

  up it illustrated in a way that I feel [TS]

  like 10,000 words wouldn't have conveyed [TS]

  you really have it to visual it's [TS]

  clearly a very visual input device and [TS]

  so I feel like the video really help [TS]

  have you done video reviews before I've [TS]

  done a handful of them i did some [TS]

  macworld and then since I've been doing [TS]

  six colors I've done a few that you know [TS]

  they take time and the challenges always [TS]

  am I doing this because everybody agrees [TS]

  that videos the future and we need to do [TS]

  video or am i doing it because video [TS]

  will be able to impart something that's [TS]

  worth imparting and and for me it really [TS]

  is like I will put in the time if I feel [TS]

  like this is gonna be the best way to [TS]

  communicate something with the touch bar [TS]

  it was very clear this was the weighted [TS]

  I i needed to communicate what was going [TS]

  on with the touch bar and I had the time [TS]

  I finished that review basically on [TS]

  friday afternoon in the embargo was [TS]

  monday morning and so on the weekend [TS]

  unlike the sunday morning i basically [TS]

  sat down is it alright let's figure out [TS]

  if i can make a video here and i ended [TS]

  up with like an iphone 7 on a in a glyph [TS]

  attached to a like a little tripod and a [TS]

  bigger tripod and I tried to figure out [TS]

  like can I get an angle where I can see [TS]

  the touch bar and it's not blown out and [TS]

  then I can capture the screen and kind [TS]

  of put them together and in the end it [TS]

  did work which is good because that's [TS]

  what i wanted is like I wanted people to [TS]

  be able to see like what happens on [TS]

  screen what happens on the touch bar [TS]

  where your fingers go [TS]

  what's the result can you see the [TS]

  animations can you see how some of the [TS]

  apps have these totally wild like slider [TS]

  interfaces and others just have keys [TS]

  some of them color the keys some of them [TS]

  don't color the keys and until you know [TS]

  there will be it's a little harder [TS]

  because you can't like to a screen [TS]

  capture of its hard to make those videos [TS]

  and i have the advantage of having some [TS]

  time to shoot the video when I figured [TS]

  out of the gate there aren't going to be [TS]

  that many videos that explain this [TS]

  feature and apples videos are probably [TS]

  not what people want to see because [TS]

  they're gonna be really slick but [TS]

  they're not as [TS]

  sara lee i mean the marketing videos [TS]

  they're not going to necessarily like [TS]

  slowed down enough for people to see [TS]

  what's going on and in the end it was [TS]

  about five minutes long which you know i [TS]

  kinda feel like could be too long but at [TS]

  the same time I felt like I really [TS]

  packed in with stuff so but it was worth [TS]

  doing because of that because it was it [TS]

  was how much how many words like you [TS]

  said how many words what I had to try to [TS]

  write to convey what i could just show [TS]

  in a video yeah I I honestly feel like [TS]

  it that's the sort of thing that just [TS]

  can't be done it verbally it and you [TS]

  know it [TS]

  I say even even just little things like [TS]

  look here's what it looks like in this [TS]

  app here's what it looks like in this [TS]

  happen and they're all sort of [TS]

  monochromatic and you can go through a [TS]

  bunch of stuff in the touch bar apps you [TS]

  know switching from app to app and you [TS]

  know doing things and using the control [TS]

  strip and it almost feels like a [TS]

  monochrome screen and then all of a [TS]

  sudden you're in something like Maps [TS]

  question and it's it is all lit up like [TS]

  Times Square [TS]

  yeah i'm not saying that's wrong yet [TS]

  iight but it is you know it it it is [TS]

  such a different thing know and all of a [TS]

  sudden when your keyboard like Maps is [TS]

  probably the best example but it it when [TS]

  your keyboard lights up with all those [TS]

  colors it is a weird different thing [TS]

  because i've been using App laptops for [TS]

  I don't know long time you know at least [TS]

  15 16 17 years since i first bought one [TS]

  and had one at the school paper before [TS]

  that so you know probably 20 years my [TS]

  keyboards never let up in color before [TS]

  yeah so yeah it was surprisingly weird [TS]

  to me it really was when you get the [TS]

  burst of color it really was [TS]

  surprisingly interesting to me you have [TS]

  a calculator is the other one that [TS]

  struck me because they there are a few [TS]

  of those keys are like an orange they're [TS]

  like super bright [TS]

  yeah and they're still keys but they're [TS]

  super bright that maps it's it's [TS]

  basically putting up the same icons that [TS]

  are in iOS and they're very colorful [TS]

  that is the by far the most colorful [TS]

  implementation sort of standard buttons [TS]

  like people the calculator I thought [TS]

  calculator was really instructive done [TS]

  only in the use of color but both [TS]

  calculator and James Thompson's p Cal [TS]

  cap [TS]

  those were those were both instructive [TS]

  to me in realizing that what I what I [TS]

  think is the right way to handle the [TS]

  touch bar is as an extension of the [TS]

  keyboard and not i mean when all the [TS]

  questions like why I wouldn't why would [TS]

  you need to touch bar why wouldn't you [TS]

  just want to use the mac interface it [TS]

  was that idea of I don't know how to do [TS]

  this with the keyboard which means that [TS]

  i'm going to get to a certain point [TS]

  where i have to take my hands off the [TS]

  keyboard move down to the trackpad and [TS]

  click on some UI on the screen and so [TS]

  the calculator was that moment where I [TS]

  realized oh I can put like square roots [TS]

  and cube root and log and sine and [TS]

  cosine on the touch bar and I can do [TS]

  numbers and then immediately just move [TS]

  my hands slightly up and go tap and now [TS]

  I've got a result or the or or [TS]

  conversion you know fahrenheit to [TS]

  celsius or something and my hands stay i [TS]

  was already up on the number right in my [TS]

  hand just move up and that was that more [TS]

  I thought oh yeah this is why this is [TS]

  this is where this shines is I just stay [TS]

  on the keyboard and the touch bar kind [TS]

  of just as an extension of the keyboard [TS]

  that and is that how everybody's going [TS]

  to use it I don't know it's so early we [TS]

  don't really know but it felt to me like [TS]

  that was the moment that unlocked like I [TS]

  see why you would use this and and when [TS]

  I am James sent me a beta P calc where [TS]

  when you tap the function keys it [TS]

  brought up a palette of all his [TS]

  functions in the UI and and what that [TS]

  meant was I tap the the touch bar and [TS]

  then I had to take my hands off the [TS]

  keyboard move to the trackpad and then [TS]

  move the cursor up and then click on [TS]

  which one I wanted and I sent him an [TS]

  email back and said you know I think [TS]

  this is wrong i think what you need is [TS]

  to put your functions in the touch bar [TS]

  because because it feels like a defeat [TS]

  if I touch the touch bar and then i have [TS]

  to take my hands off of it and move [TS]

  around with the cursor and so he changed [TS]

  it and now it's like your most recent [TS]

  the functions and conversions appear in [TS]

  the touch bar and it's like night and [TS]

  day because now i type in 32 and I tap [TS]

  conversion fahrenheit to celsius and [TS]

  that and it all happens on the touch bar [TS]

  and I never have to sort of switch modes [TS]

  to mousing around [TS]

  yeah and I think that calculator is [TS]

  the apples calculators an interesting [TS]

  example in a couple of ways I I my gut [TS]

  feeling is that that's one of the apps [TS]

  that got it most right yeah me too and [TS]

  one thing to and I know apple said this [TS]

  is true but my experience testing the [TS]

  device is that it is clear that apple's [TS]

  mac app engineering teams spent a lot of [TS]

  time working on touch bar support for [TS]

  their apps because there are obviously [TS]

  some of the oddball apps like the ones [TS]

  that are in applications / utilities you [TS]

  know it had only one who's got updated [TS]

  it did you really go through everyone i [TS]

  did i did i I've got you want to hear [TS]

  the list no review but it's like so you [TS]

  to activity monitor not that's the one [TS]

  that gets me activity monitor and [TS]

  terminal are the two utilities that [TS]

  Gotye do about terminal i forgot about [TS]

  right i forgot the terminal was that was [TS]

  buried away in utilities I used to it [TS]

  but they also located in this is some of [TS]

  the stock and some of them are there [TS]

  straps straps but calculator calendar [TS]

  contacts finder Final Cut Pro garageband [TS]

  iMovie itunes keynote male maps messages [TS]

  numbers pages photos preview quicktime [TS]

  player safari system preferences and [TS]

  then they're a bunch of apps that use [TS]

  the sort of standard text editing [TS]

  interface and they pick up a text editor [TS]

  touch bar interface so like text edit [TS]

  and and notes get that get that text [TS]

  editing so it's too so there's like [TS]

  there's like more than a dozen they did [TS]

  a lot mean for people who say apple [TS]

  doesn't care about the mac it's like [TS]

  they built this whole new bit of [TS]

  hardware and then they updated all of [TS]

  these mac apps to support it was a lot [TS]

  of work right and there's a lot of work [TS]

  in I might be missing something actually [TS]

  but there's there's the the the hardware [TS]

  engineering work of actually putting an [TS]

  embedded iOS device into the keyboard [TS]

  with this everything system-on-a-chip [TS]

  and having a stay way that it can [TS]

  interface with the Intel side you've got [TS]

  like this arm little arm computer [TS]

  running on your keyboard and it [TS]

  communicates with the Intel side and the [TS]

  Intel side even does the because the one [TS]

  of the things that the the iOS device on [TS]

  the touch part doesn't have is a GPU so [TS]

  the Intel side does the GPU rendering [TS]

  and has to go back but it's all done [TS]

  securely in and there's a whole bunch of [TS]

  the let you know [TS]

  electrical engineering going on there [TS]

  that's it it's just that you'd never [TS]

  know it right didn't you know it's 60 [TS]

  frames-per-second just like iOS its [TS]

  instantaneous touch [TS]

  it's just like you know you'd expect [TS]

  from any apple iOS touch device so [TS]

  there's that engineered did physical [TS]

  hardware engineering of that there's the [TS]

  and ended the second level is the mac [TS]

  programming side where all of these apps [TS]

  were updated with whether they got a [TS]

  right or wrong [TS]

  none of them seemed half-ass they all [TS]

  seemed like a lot of thought went into [TS]

  it all these apps got updated with touch [TS]

  bar support which is a lot of work but [TS]

  then in between those two there's the [TS]

  xcode side where the people who work on [TS]

  the api's and xcode itself had to do all [TS]

  the work to make it so that mac [TS]

  developers have api's and and you know a [TS]

  simulator so they can test our machines [TS]

  that don't actually have a touch bar and [TS]

  all of that stuff so an awful lot of [TS]

  work went into this and i completely [TS]

  agree it's it's to me [TS]

  example number one that I whatever else [TS]

  is going on with the mac and some of the [TS]

  machines that have gone way too long [TS]

  without getting updated it's clear that [TS]

  Apple this is invested in the mac i [TS]

  really think that touch bars is proof of [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah and we can debate and I've been [TS]

  trying to make this distinction for the [TS]

  last couple of weeks it's like part of [TS]

  what I think a lot of us do is try to [TS]

  understand why Apple is doing what [TS]

  Apple's motivation is why Apple made the [TS]

  choices it made [TS]

  I want to separate that from the [TS]

  judgments about whether these are good [TS]

  decisions are not because i think we [TS]

  could debate whether doing the touch bar [TS]

  is a good decision or not we can debate [TS]

  the price of these systems and we can [TS]

  debate you know this there's so many [TS]

  aspects of this that we can that we can [TS]

  talk about but I think you can't debate [TS]

  the fact that Apple made a major [TS]

  investment in the mac platform in this [TS]

  in this this particular computer because [TS]

  we're seeing a huge bit of hardware [TS]

  engineering happening here [TS]

  a whole lot of software engineering [TS]

  happening here so we can you know we can [TS]

  debate whether we think this is the [TS]

  right approach whether this was a waste [TS]

  of time whether having a laptop focused [TS]

  input device method is good or bad if [TS]

  it's going to be a gimmick there's all [TS]

  those things but you can't debate it was [TS]

  a huge investment on Apple's part to do [TS]

  this and if they really didn't care [TS]

  about the mac why would they do it right [TS]

  exactly i do another laptop with the [TS]

  latest did intel chips and move on [TS]

  right i mean that they could do that [TS]

  yeah here's why I think calculators is a [TS]

  great example the Apple calculator app [TS]

  is a great example because the buttons [TS]

  so Apple it at least I don't know [TS]

  forever since like iOS 7 show and then [TS]

  when you know the the Yosemite whenever [TS]

  the mac version was that got the sort of [TS]

  iOS style visual refresh [TS]

  Apple has a very consistent calculator [TS]

  look and it's you know mostly based on [TS]

  the color orange [TS]

  yeah thanks you know orange buttons so [TS]

  when those buttons on the keyboard it [TS]

  makes the keyboard look calculator [TS]

  branded right like in so if you use [TS]

  apples calculator you know what it looks [TS]

  like it's got this sort of just orange [TS]

  calculator look you see these buttons [TS]

  that are orange and it's it to me is a [TS]

  very cool way of making the touch bar [TS]

  feel like it's part of the app it's it's [TS]

  a really cool move and all of the all of [TS]

  the functions that are in orange on the [TS]

  UI are orange on the touch bar and so [TS]

  it's like yeah you mean you immediately [TS]

  get it you're like oh yeah right like a [TS]

  of course they are course the equals [TS]

  button is orange so I'd when I i was at [TS]

  the event and I got to talk to people at [TS]

  Apple and they showed me the calculated [TS]

  and at it a couple of the people i spoke [TS]

  to you know that this is one of my [TS]

  favorite examples i know it sounds silly [TS]

  but they should be calculator and then [TS]

  at first like in the default calculator [TS]

  mode the only button you have up there [TS]

  divided x minus plus equals and they [TS]

  said no that it seems silly because [TS]

  those buttons are there you know you can [TS]

  hit shift on the equals key to get plus [TS]

  and you know it's it's not like you [TS]

  can't type that but they said like it in [TS]

  our testing [TS]

  with the team that was using it we found [TS]

  that we loved this and surprising how [TS]

  many people at on the Apple at inside [TS]

  Apple who had access to this and we're [TS]

  working on it [TS]

  loved the calculator thing because all [TS]

  of a sudden you have to get it makes [TS]

  your laptop keyboard feel more like [TS]

  having that extended keyboard that has [TS]

  this the thing on the right side where [TS]

  you have number pads and dedicated [TS]

  buttons for those features right there's [TS]

  a reason why some people who enter [TS]

  numbers a lot like having an extended [TS]

  keyboard that has that keypad over there [TS]

  it gives you sort of the now the number [TS]

  layout maybe isn't quite as convenient [TS]

  having a horizontal row of numbers but [TS]

  not having to worry about everything [TS]

  shift or the fact that that they're not [TS]

  consecutive you know that- is right [TS]

  there but plus you have to hit shift to [TS]

  get I mean it's all sort of weird typing [TS]

  those those operators on the keyboard on [TS]

  that regular keyboard with you don't [TS]

  have a numpad with the touch bar [TS]

  it really is natural yeah i mean you [TS]

  could argue that count [TS]

  could argue that count [TS]

  Slater is the best example and that that [TS]

  they really do run the game but i do [TS]

  think that this is going to be an [TS]

  interface playground where we're going [TS]

  to learn a lot in the next year or two [TS]

  where Apple and third-party developers [TS]

  tried a bunch of stuff and find out what [TS]

  the right approach is because it's all [TS]

  over the map now like how calculator is [TS]

  a good example because there are there [TS]

  are buttons you want to press that that [TS]

  are on keys like there is no I mean [TS]

  there's an equals key and there's a [TS]

  there's a plus and minus and do you know [TS]

  but like multiplication is the asterisk [TS]

  and division is the / it's like no no [TS]

  we're just going to put the symbols on [TS]

  the on these virtual keys at the top [TS]

  it's like that is the like almost purest [TS]

  example where there are things you want [TS]

  to type that you don't know what keys to [TS]

  press so we're going to just draw those [TS]

  keys on the touch bar and you know now [TS]

  you know how to press them and you go [TS]

  all the way down to something like Final [TS]

  Cut which is this incredibly intricate [TS]

  context-based set of of sometimes it's [TS]

  buttons sometimes it's got like sliders [TS]

  and scrubbers and things and you know [TS]

  and then there's a bunch of stuff that's [TS]

  in between where some some of them you [TS]

  look at it you go [TS]

  I don't know if this is very useful and [TS]

  then others you you look at and like [TS]

  Maps you're like whoa you know what am i [TS]

  what am I seeing now there's a there's a [TS]

  can-can Pratap the the gas station but [TS]

  now and it will show me all the gas [TS]

  stations around me and and I think over [TS]

  time well we'll figure out what [TS]

  philosophically like what's the right [TS]

  approach what people what looks good and [TS]

  what do people actually want to use I [TS]

  found safaris to be useless and I'd have [TS]

  to make up i have to admit that i didn't [TS]

  spend a lot of time configuring the [TS]

  touch bar and a lot of apps just because [TS]

  I ran out of time and I am gonna feel [TS]

  like I will you know once i'm using a [TS]

  touch of our quick macbook pro is my [TS]

  domain laptop and i will get into do [TS]

  that but i found safaris default [TS]

  implementation to be useless which is [TS]

  that it shows thumbnails of your tabs in [TS]

  your current window and I mean maybe [TS]

  daring fireball is identifiable it looks [TS]

  like a gray button but it they just look [TS]

  like a bunch of what almost every [TS]

  webpage just [TS]

  that shrunk to that size is [TS]

  indistinguishable they're just little [TS]

  white that with things you know little [TS]

  white with grade [TS]

  it's just too small i I couldn't [TS]

  possibly use that i also embed a little [TS]

  bit baffled and and I say this also this [TS]

  is a larger complaint I have is they [TS]

  added these these tabs safari tabs in El [TS]

  Capitan and I like them and I use them [TS]

  but they're not on iOS to this day and [TS]

  they're not in the touch bar which also [TS]

  kind of baffles me like I've told you I [TS]

  want these you know these sites and [TS]

  they've got these nice little icons and [TS]

  they're important enough that I want you [TS]

  to keep them tabbed all the time so the [TS]

  ontology mean yeah the pin tabs are not [TS]

  back and not accessible either so it's a [TS]

  little bit and any other graphic that [TS]

  that's a great example of like what we [TS]

  can do graphic previews of what of all [TS]

  the pages that you've gotten your tabs [TS]

  and make it a slider it's like well that [TS]

  sounds great that's a really cool way of [TS]

  showing that this is a feature that has [TS]

  more than just buttons in it but in [TS]

  practice I don't think it makes any [TS]

  sense i don't think it works at all [TS]

  I am NOT that's the the bunch of things [TS]

  like that that's like you know I get why [TS]

  you did it but I honest to god I'd I [TS]

  feel embarrassed that I didn't even look [TS]

  because it maybe I actually um maybe you [TS]

  can actually go in and configure it to [TS]

  do this but so if it's already there i'm [TS]

  gonna good after we're done recording [TS]

  i'm gonna go set up my review unit to do [TS]

  this but I think it should be the [TS]

  default I my god is I think that this [TS]

  far you should just default to putting [TS]

  the next tab previous tab buttons up in [TS]

  that don't show me they are one just say [TS]

  next tab previous tab and make them nice [TS]

  and big and have them say next tab [TS]

  previous tab yeah i know it's got [TS]

  backward and forward [TS]

  yeah I don't actually forward I want [TS]

  next tab previous tab because i feel [TS]

  that the shortcuts for that is kind of [TS]

  convoluted it's it's like control tab [TS]

  and control shift tab which is really a [TS]

  finger full use it that you get that [TS]

  with those visual previews I do wonder [TS]

  and I I suspect there's a guideline [TS]

  somewhere that I haven't seen because [TS]

  I'm not a developer i do wonder about [TS]

  the touch bar being used for [TS]

  informational purposes if somebody laid [TS]

  down an edict to that like information [TS]

  that isn't permit [TS]

  it's like temporary text should not go [TS]

  in the touch bar because like I'm [TS]

  baffled why the now playing in the [TS]

  control strip brings up a scrubber for [TS]

  itunes just like I'm never going to [TS]

  scrub for music but it might be kind of [TS]

  fun just to if I pop that open to see [TS]

  the name of the song i'm listening to [TS]

  its not there and it won't it'll show [TS]

  you in safari i'll show you little tiny [TS]

  thumbnails a part of the page of the [TS]

  webpage that your you've got loaded in [TS]

  your tabs but what it won't do is put up [TS]

  like the name of that tab right of that [TS]

  page which would be more way more useful [TS]

  and I wonder if they've decided like [TS]

  know if emerald kind of like text labels [TS]

  of what's in a page is not something you [TS]

  should do in the touch bar i'm not sure [TS]

  I agree with that but I thought I I it [TS]

  seems like there's a rule at work here [TS]

  that they don't want to put like a a [TS]

  text read out it's only for controls not [TS]

  for information and even then i would [TS]

  say but but a sliver of a horizontal [TS]

  sliver of a webpage as a preview is [TS]

  useless to me too i am reminded and and [TS]

  I skimmed the user interface guidelines [TS]

  for the touch bar I should get back to [TS]

  that night he read them read them [TS]

  thoroughly but I can't help but think [TS]

  that no matter how well-written that [TS]

  document is just that the evidence of [TS]

  using all of apple's apps is that it's [TS]

  still sort of a wild west and yet [TS]

  they're feeling and now that third-party [TS]

  developers can get in on it we [TS]

  collectively are feeling our way to how [TS]

  we should use it and when i'm reminded [TS]

  of is how in the very early years of the [TS]

  original mac let's save somewhere around [TS]

  nineteen eighty-four 289 or so i would [TS]

  say took 45 years the mac was famous for [TS]

  its you know human interface guidelines [TS]

  right from the beginning and that there [TS]

  is consistency and a toolbox that [TS]

  developers could use so everybody's [TS]

  alert will look at it but you go back [TS]

  and look at screenshots from like there [TS]

  then you know almost close to the [TS]

  nineties I'd say right around system 6 [TS]

  is where things got very definitively [TS]

  you know Matt all that smack like or um [TS]

  this app was clearly written by a [TS]

  developer who does not know the matter [TS]

  you just see stupid things like somebody [TS]

  who spelled ok [TS]

  okaaay in a diner a button right like to [TS]

  a mac users eyes that it just jumps [TS]

  right out as and that's a mistake right [TS]

  you do not spell ok ok why but if you [TS]

  look back at like 84 85 86 like mac [TS]

  dialogues you'd see that all the time [TS]

  and you're just weird layout you know [TS]

  like not having a default button in the [TS]

  dialog right at it [TS]

  things that you are or putting the [TS]

  default button not in the bottom right [TS]

  corner it just things that eventually [TS]

  became like what's the word [TS]

  idiomatic right idiomatic Mac UI design [TS]

  we don't have rat yet that's the what's [TS]

  an idiomatic design for the touch bar of [TS]

  a nap the touch part interface for a nap [TS]

  what type of features are our should go [TS]

  in there by default we don't have it yet [TS]

  yeah and and i'm excited by the fact i [TS]

  mean you could argue like maybe Apple's [TS]

  App show a little more unification may [TS]

  then they have but I'm okay with it the [TS]

  way it is which is everybody [TS]

  it looks like with some rules and [TS]

  restrictions everybody has tried to [TS]

  develop the right approach for their app [TS]

  and their content and their users and I [TS]

  and sort of let the chips fall where [TS]

  they may and I think that's great [TS]

  because I I mean right now i think i [TS]

  could say with certainty that there are [TS]

  apps that do it wrong and the door right [TS]

  and we can argue about which is with but [TS]

  like there is such a variation and maybe [TS]

  it'll turn out that something like what [TS]

  Final Cut does is totally the right way [TS]

  to do it which is you got sliders and [TS]

  you know you're you're intentionally [TS]

  using it like that like the DJ app on [TS]

  stage right and maybe you know if I had [TS]

  to choose I would guess that maybe we're [TS]

  gonna back off of that and say actually [TS]

  what we saw with DJ in Photoshop what we [TS]

  see with final cut pro is maybe too far [TS]

  too intense too much of a UI instead of [TS]

  a set of shortcuts you know and you know [TS]

  and maybe will back off of that maybe [TS]

  not maybe i'll turn out that UI is what [TS]

  people love and it's having that surface [TS]

  there is the best thing in the world [TS]

  old but my gut feeling is that it's like [TS]

  that's a big that's a big step to go and [TS]

  I'm not sure that's the right approach [TS]

  but i'm sure people at Apple were [TS]

  debating it too and it doesn't have to [TS]

  be one of the other I mean it right now [TS]

  and right now it isn't in fact my [TS]

  biggest Christian final cut is more that [TS]

  it's so complicated that it seems to be [TS]

  not customizable in any way and and [TS]

  that's for me the fact that they went [TS]

  back to this classic like from 10-point [TS]

  Oh customize toolbar interface to cut [TS]

  let people customize the touch bar i [TS]

  really like that because I it should be [TS]

  personal you should be putting the stuff [TS]

  on it that you care about the most and i [TS]

  don't know how many people do that but [TS]

  I'm glad that that's there and that is [TS]

  customizable I worried that it wasn't I [TS]

  mean the next step should probably be [TS]

  able to make the left third parties have [TS]

  access to control strip yeah that's one [TS]

  thing at a time and i really like it [TS]

  just feels so Mac like it [TS]

  terms of the way that the cut [TS]

  customization feels exactly like [TS]

  customizing the toolbar in a window and [TS]

  we're gonna cocoa app it's you know it's [TS]

  you know it's by design and it's no [TS]

  surprise but it really just goes to show [TS]

  that the people who wrote these api's [TS]

  are you know knew what they were doing [TS]

  and they did it the right now and and I [TS]

  you know it doesn't always say when they [TS]

  show these things on stage and people [TS]

  asked afterward i'm sure they do the [TS]

  same to you like what what what do you [TS]

  think a lot of it's like well look good [TS]

  let's see what the details are and when [TS]

  I first customize the toolbar I was like [TS]

  wow ok good like they did a really good [TS]

  job like I had this whole worry about [TS]

  how do you use like you move the cursor [TS]

  to the bottom of the screen and it like [TS]

  disappears and suddenly you get a [TS]

  selection in a toolbar but you in the [TS]

  touch bar but you don't see your cursor [TS]

  anymore but it's still sort of there as [TS]

  a ghost and you can move it around and [TS]

  then if you move it back up it pops back [TS]

  out on the bottom of your display I'm [TS]

  like that's weird [TS]

  how are they gonna do that and when I [TS]

  used it was like well it makes perfect [TS]

  sense like they nailed it they they [TS]

  really did figure out a way to do it [TS]

  where you never feel like suddenly [TS]

  you're pointing device is gone into a [TS]

  different parallel universe and nothing [TS]

  makes sense anymore like it all held [TS]

  together and I'm impressed by by the [TS]

  good kind of care that they took with [TS]

  that stuff [TS]

  it's a little thing [TS]

  but I appreciate so when you go into [TS]

  edit mode the buttons that are there [TS]

  jiggle it's a little similar to you know [TS]

  very similar and it clearly drawn from [TS]

  the home screen customization and iOS [TS]

  where if you want to move your apps [TS]

  around in iOS you know you hold the home [TS]

  button and you go into the mode and all [TS]

  your apps Google it's a good way of [TS]

  playing off something people are [TS]

  familiar with I feel like that that idea [TS]

  but wait if you're going to put him in [TS]

  reorder mode make them you know jiggle [TS]

  around but what I really like is that to [TS]

  me i think is it feels just slightly [TS]

  more of us of a serious jiggle then the [TS]

  iOS jiggle like the iOS one to move more [TS]

  or less in a goofy way and the kind of [TS]

  twist yeah they twist and the mac was [TS]

  just kind of go back and forth and I may [TS]

  be part of that is that it's just [TS]

  horizontal maybe they you know but i [TS]

  think they could have made him twist if [TS]

  they wanted to even if it made the [TS]

  corners you know go off the the top it [TS]

  just feels more appropriate to the mac [TS]

  in a way that the mac is is is a more [TS]

  serious platform than iOS I do like the [TS]

  personality [TS]

  I mean that's one of the things I said [TS]

  mind you that you quit that you quoted I [TS]

  always always have a moment like it to [TS]

  junk it links to me what what part we [TS]

  quote i'm and and that one was without [TS]

  it's just it's a reporting a true [TS]

  feeling I had which is this has more [TS]

  personality than I thought it would like [TS]

  the ANA it has a lot of animations i [TS]

  think if you just read about this [TS]

  feature you would not imagine that that [TS]

  everything animates and like the touch [TS]

  ID sensor when it comes on there is this [TS]

  arrow and the arrow like stretches like [TS]

  it's made a rubber as it points at the [TS]

  touch ID sensor and it is i mean it's [TS]

  not wacky know but it is whimsical in a [TS]

  way that it totally didn't need to be [TS]

  and and there's just little stuff like [TS]

  that that I think you know that there is [TS]

  there is personality here it isn't just [TS]

  this kind of gray we gave we made you a [TS]

  toolbar enjoy it's like a little bit [TS]

  more enthusiastic and and and I like [TS]

  that I like that it's got person to its [TS]

  a Mac like whimsical pneus [TS]

  so that touch here to login with you [TS]

  know touch ID and then it and the arrow [TS]

  you know stretching it that to me feels [TS]

  right for the mac and it should be it [TS]

  would it should be if they did something [TS]

  similar on iOS it would be more [TS]

  whimsical and appropriately [TS]

  yeah I think that's right Horace [TS]

  acquitted this thing that horse did you [TS]

  wrote a week or two ago where he he [TS]

  wrote a piece about see if i can find it [TS]

  here i love that piece [TS]

  I did too but you know where's Apple [TS]

  going with the Macintosh and you know it [TS]

  an analogy about you know why isn't the [TS]

  maca touchscreen and i'll put the link [TS]

  again in the show notes so anybody who [TS]

  hasn't read it can do it where for art [TS]

  though mcintosh but he wrote and see if [TS]

  i can find the quote it cannot [TS]

  on the role of being the future he's [TS]

  talking about the mac that belongs to [TS]

  the touch screen devices it will not [TS]

  more him into a touchscreen device any [TS]

  more than a tech a teens parent will [TS]

  become cool by putting on skinny jeans [TS]

  what it will do is become better at what [TS]

  it is hired to do i'll put a link in the [TS]

  show notes is i promise i'm doing right [TS]

  now copying pasting them so infamous for [TS]

  saying i put something under here is [TS]

  copy paste there it is very well done [TS]

  the UH it's great i mean i wrote a piece [TS]

  about the same time called like parallel [TS]

  falar perpendicular philosophy yes and [TS]

  it's the same things like why does [TS]

  Microsoft insist on doing these [TS]

  touchscreen things and everybody's like [TS]

  oh god I can't believe apples not doing [TS]

  and it's like well number one reason is [TS]

  Apple already has a touchscreen OS so [TS]

  what happens doing is differentiating [TS]

  you're saying and and this can be hard [TS]

  for Mac users to hear although i don't [TS]

  mind it's like the mac is like the [TS]

  classic computing metaphor that Apple [TS]

  makes and you can't push it too far [TS]

  because it becomes an iPad or an iPhone [TS]

  then and they've already got that like [TS]

  they don't need to do a touchscreen [TS]

  tablet like they have a touchscreen [TS]

  tablet already so the mac has to be [TS]

  defined by some fundamental premises and [TS]

  apple and again you could debate it and [TS]

  say no no [TS]

  Microsoft's doing the right thing but [TS]

  what Apple has decided and they've done [TS]

  this again again they said it publicly [TS]

  repeatedly is the max for traditional [TS]

  computing with a pointing device and in [TS]

  the case of a laptop is very clear [TS]

  it's two perpendicular surfaces but it's [TS]

  even true on the desktop you've got your [TS]

  keyboard tray or the bottom of your [TS]

  laptop and that's the control surface [TS]

  and it's got the keys and it's got the [TS]

  touch bar maybe and it's got the [TS]

  trackpad and then it you got the screen [TS]

  and this stuff happens on the screen and [TS]

  you control it from the from the [TS]

  perpendicular surface that's in front of [TS]

  you and if you would rather directly [TS]

  manipulate with your hands that's fine [TS]

  that's not what a mac is max aren't for [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah I add this adult with you know [TS]

  becoming it cool by putting on skinny [TS]

  teen jeans is the best as it's the best [TS]

  metaphor I've yeah a lot of I I've seen [TS]

  I decided think of it he did but it i [TS]

  love it [TS]

  and to me the way that it is it that [TS]

  Apple has adopted some of these things [TS]

  like the animation for that arrow is [TS]

  exactly the same way where it's it's not [TS]

  trying to be iOS it's not trying to be [TS]

  you know it's doing it in a Macintosh [TS]

  way and i have to say personally on the [TS]

  flip side I got to spend i spent like [TS]

  half an hour in a microsoft store when i [TS]

  was in san francisco last month for the [TS]

  apple event and they had a the new [TS]

  surface [TS]

  I don't know what they call it surface [TS]

  the road studio yes service studio had a [TS]

  couple of them set up and a whole bunch [TS]

  of apps like photoshop and and and stuff [TS]

  and there wasn't you know it was it [TS]

  wasn't that crowded there actually I'm [TS]

  not making fun of them for having for [TS]

  supper and crowded there was actually a [TS]

  line for people to try out the VR thing [TS]

  they had set up so there was a thing [TS]

  there that was drawing a crowd of it [TS]

  seemed to me like at least 10 people at [TS]

  a time constantly waiting to try the VR [TS]

  think so there is something there that [TS]

  is drawing people in the store but that [TS]

  the surface wasn't so I got to play with [TS]

  it and I old person trying to dress like [TS]

  a teenager is exactly that it's better [TS]

  than anything I could say I had other [TS]

  complaints about like the latency [TS]

  compared to the Apple pencil on ipad [TS]

  there it was low latency I mean [TS]

  Microsoft is it you know definitely did [TS]

  some work on that but it was not like [TS]

  Apple pencil but the weirdest part was [TS]

  the way that that just exactly what you [TS]

  would think like having a mouse based [TS]

  interface but then using touch and a [TS]

  pencil to do things was weird like we're [TS]

  all of a sudden as your pencil gets near [TS]

  you see a cursor on screen right beneath [TS]

  it and it's like weird you know i feel [TS]

  like i'm using it's not that much better [TS]

  than one of those airport terminals [TS]

  where you get your boarding pass and [TS]

  every time you touch the screen the [TS]

  windows mouse cursor moves to where you [TS]

  touch it it it just feels like old [TS]

  person dressing like a teenager is [TS]

  exactly i get it i can't think of [TS]

  anything better than that and i would [TS]

  just bring a guest break my heart to see [TS]

  Apple do that to the mac i guess the the [TS]

  one thing that that I if I extended [TS]

  horses men metaphor a little bit is it [TS]

  is possible for something theoretically [TS]

  for something like windows to have a [TS]

  like a chrysalis and like turn into a [TS]

  teenager right [TS]

  I mean they could evolve windows to the [TS]

  point where it is a touch interface [TS]

  the problem is they've got everybody [TS]

  who's using Windows PCs and they don't [TS]

  wanna you know they don't have a they [TS]

  tried it right they tried it with with a [TS]

  metro and with the their arm based stuff [TS]

  and in the end the the they retreated [TS]

  back to the power of their successful [TS]

  windows platform and they've made it [TS]

  better but like they have one operating [TS]

  system and they can change the context [TS]

  but it's one operating system and there [TS]

  are challenges with that and I don't you [TS]

  know it's not that they're not [TS]

  unsolvable they may be solvable but it's [TS]

  like I i'm not saying that fundamentally [TS]

  microsoft is right or wrong or Apple is [TS]

  right or wrong but if you look at what [TS]

  the assets of both companies are [TS]

  Microsoft has this incredibly successful [TS]

  desktop operating system traditional [TS]

  computer operating system and they [TS]

  haven't done anything in mobile so what [TS]

  do you do to get to to approach sort of [TS]

  like the mobile world and the touch base [TS]

  world you gotta take windows and you [TS]

  gotta jam it in there and if your Apple [TS]

  you got the mac you get iOS they're fine [TS]

  you don't need to do that so they're not [TS]

  going to do that and so when people say [TS]

  you know one of them is right and one of [TS]

  them is wrong [TS]

  that may well be i'm not quite sure it's [TS]

  that clear [TS]

  I think it may be a much more kind of [TS]

  shades of grey situation depends on your [TS]

  use cases and who knows where we'll be [TS]

  in five or ten years but i would i would [TS]

  argue both companies are doing what [TS]

  makes sense for them because you know [TS]

  Microsoft has the assets it has an apple [TS]

  is very apple is extremely fortunate in [TS]

  fact they're basically the only company [TS]

  in the world who has a very successful [TS]

  touch-based operating system and a [TS]

  traditional computer operating system [TS]

  and so they don't need a gym together [TS]

  they can just keep them apart and [TS]

  everybody like us who's like I love the [TS]

  mac i want to keep using the mac they're [TS]

  not going to make a Mac that's totally [TS]

  unrecognizable because at that point why [TS]

  wouldn't you just use a pc or or switch [TS]

  and use an iPad so the you know that [TS]

  Apple has the luxury of doing that and [TS]

  it makes perfect sense that that's what [TS]

  they're doing and i also will say that i [TS]

  found Windows 10 running on the surface [TS]

  to call again the studio service to do I [TS]

  i was very lost and confused [TS]

  just going between apps and navigating [TS]

  the system and it it there i found it i [TS]

  honestly found it confusing and part of [TS]

  it is just that I haven't used windows [TS]

  regularly in over a decade [TS]

  yeah but it's very I'm all my windows [TS]

  skills were really good up to a point [TS]

  and then they windows has evolved enough [TS]

  now because I've got windows 10 online [TS]

  my imac and boot camp and Windows has [TS]

  evolved to the point where all my old [TS]

  windows skills which were pretty good [TS]

  are just useless now I I'm no idea what [TS]

  I'm looking at [TS]

  so that doesn't help that it but i will [TS]

  say that i've spent time few years ago [TS]

  with like when the original surfaces and [TS]

  I didn't find those confusing at all now [TS]

  I didn't really love the whole idea [TS]

  where you can go into traditional [TS]

  Windows mouse mouse pointer mode right [TS]

  and run your traditional Windows [TS]

  software and you go into this other mode [TS]

  of the metro mode and it's all [TS]

  touch-based but I got it because the [TS]

  metro thing was clear like oh these are [TS]

  big chunky touch targets and and instead [TS]

  of tiled windows they're you know [TS]

  they're going on more of a 2d thing and [TS]

  you swipe side to side and this is you [TS]

  know all new and everything is big and [TS]

  you know big thump sizable touch targets [TS]

  now and if i want to run my you know [TS]

  Mike you know Microsoft Excel i switch [TS]

  to this other mode and it looks exactly [TS]

  like Excel I know exactly where we're [TS]

  going to mouse right yeah I I i guess i [TS]

  can see why they went away from that and [TS]

  why people rejected it but it it made [TS]

  way more sense to me to go that way and [TS]

  I think part of it was like understand [TS]

  offski they clearly wanted to because [TS]

  they had the the army base surface [TS]

  tablets that only had the metro mode and [TS]

  I really feel like that's where some of [TS]

  them the ones who have good taste in [TS]

  Microsoft wanted to go like good taste [TS]

  in the animal sense and it was a much to [TS]

  me a much more compelling device and I [TS]

  think it only failed because it didn't [TS]

  get developers support that developers [TS]

  kept the old classic you know windows [TS]

  win32 API apps so i was i was at the d [TS]

  conference when they did that demo the [TS]

  first of the first time and i remember [TS]

  seeing all the metro stuff and thinking [TS]

  you know with the original surface and [TS]

  thinking damn that is really good Mike [TS]

  here comes microsoft you know everybody [TS]

  watch out and then they did that moment [TS]

  they're like and if you want to run [TS]

  office [TS]

  instead of showing what I expected to [TS]

  see which is like a demo of a [TS]

  touch-based office like officer ipad is [TS]

  today and they're like boom now you're [TS]

  in the Windows desktop and you plug in a [TS]

  mouse and a keyboard and you have a pc [TS]

  and I thought no no no I remember you [TS]

  know what i wrote a piece you wrote a [TS]

  piece about it and we were talking about [TS]

  it and so do you so close and I still [TS]

  believe like the right thing to do was [TS]

  from microsoft microsoft to say we have [TS]

  taken all our knowledge of windows and [TS]

  we have built a touch-based operating [TS]

  system that will you know it's related [TS]

  and steve ballmer wants to call it [TS]

  windows something we'll call it that but [TS]

  it's different and the windows RT was [TS]

  like that but it was like already [TS]

  compromised and half-hearted like they'd [TS]

  already kind of sold it out that all [TS]

  said given the strength of apple and and [TS]

  and google in mobile operating systems [TS]

  and what has happened with all of [TS]

  Microsoft's attempts to make just a [TS]

  mobile operating system [TS]

  I'm not really convinced now that even [TS]

  if they had done what I think would have [TS]

  been the best product that anybody would [TS]

  have bought it because they would have [TS]

  been selling they couldn't have [TS]

  leveraged any of their or much of their [TS]

  strength which was windows to get people [TS]

  on board so they be starting from [TS]

  scratch like they did with Windows Phone [TS]

  yeah and so you know i think it would [TS]

  have been a way out a way better product [TS]

  but I I think feel like by the time they [TS]

  got to metro and making that demo the [TS]

  ship it kind of sailed already i think [TS]

  it was the right way too bad because it [TS]

  was cool yeah i think it was the right [TS]

  thing to do [TS]

  from a design perspective but it was not [TS]

  going to work from a marketing [TS]

  perspective it's just wasn't going to [TS]

  get an erection [TS]

  I don't know that there's anything they [TS]

  could have done to make metro better [TS]

  just better in terms of if we had done a [TS]

  better job designing it if we've done a [TS]

  better job making the initial set of [TS]

  apps it would have succeeded i don't i [TS]

  don't think it i don't think it failed [TS]

  because it wasn't good enough i think it [TS]

  failed be for other reasons [TS]

  yeah yeah and it's it's tough because [TS]

  you look at microsoft and you know [TS]

  Microsoft Microsoft ambition was that of [TS]

  a dominant operating system vendor but [TS]

  their position was that of a newcomer [TS]

  essentially because you know android and [TS]

  iOS gobble battle market up very quickly [TS]

  they were left kind of with not a whole [TS]

  lot like they weren't there in the in [TS]

  the blackberry camp down and also [TS]

  receiving votes were these people with [TS]

  five percent of the market and that's [TS]

  tough that's a tough position to be in [TS]

  I don't you know I i love a lot of what [TS]

  Microsoft's doing now but it's a it's [TS]

  still a tough position to be in because [TS]

  they do need to be windows and try to [TS]

  innovate and you know i know a lot of [TS]

  people especially creative people people [TS]

  who use pen input all the time on their [TS]

  mac with a with a tablet and all that [TS]

  people who really kind of going ape over [TS]

  the over the surface studio and I'm not [TS]

  one of those people [TS]

  I'm so it didn't really throw me and in [TS]

  fact when I looked at it I thought I [TS]

  would much i think i would much rather [TS]

  have a in desktop ipad yeah but that's [TS]

  what i will say this i did I if you draw [TS]

  for a living I don't know if you draw [TS]

  comics if you are an architect or [TS]

  something like that I can totally see [TS]

  how the city so yeah tablet is a device [TS]

  for you but I'd I don't want to pry [TS]

  don't see any reason to like that device [TS]

  if you're not if you're not someone who [TS]

  makes a living with a pen in your hand [TS]

  and the funny thing and the enemy and [TS]

  there's this is part of the people [TS]

  coming back to people being grumpy with [TS]

  Apple about various things it's like one [TS]

  of the things that seems like yeah if [TS]

  you're cartoonist or a comic book artist [TS]

  or or anybody who is who is using these [TS]

  certain kind of inputs there's going to [TS]

  be a class of user for whom the surface [TS]

  studio is the perfect computer and you [TS]

  know what a lot of those people are [TS]

  going to be loyal mac users and they're [TS]

  gonna they're gonna feel torn and [TS]

  they're gonna feel like Apple has left [TS]

  let them down a little bit because Apple [TS]

  isn't providing them with that same kind [TS]

  of product and all of those feelings are [TS]

  valid but I would also say it's also [TS]

  valid for Apple to say we're never going [TS]

  to make a product like that like that is [TS]

  not how big how big a market is that how [TS]

  many how many surface studios are going [TS]

  to sell right i mean it's a cool product [TS]

  that will be perfect for a very specific [TS]

  group of people and they should love it [TS]

  because you know because it's it's made [TS]

  for them and it's brilliant for them but [TS]

  i'm not sure that i can see the logic of [TS]

  Apple like making their next imac like a [TS]

  surface to do I just doesn't make sense [TS]

  going to see not in the very near future [TS]

  not within the next handful of years but [TS]

  I could see [TS]

  within 10 years I could see Apple having [TS]

  a 30-inch iOS device [TS]

  oh i agree i mean that's that's the at [TS]

  some point I was talking to somebody [TS]

  about it and that's what i said is it's [TS]

  way more likely that makes a giant iPad [TS]

  right then they make a touchscreen mac [TS]

  on your desk like that way more likely [TS]

  Waverly I i had so much more likely that [TS]

  you know just the guy is the guy that [TS]

  Hillary Clinton was locked when ya is [TS]

  right right Justin I do they only met [TS]

  are you the guy from Princeton who said [TS]

  it was a ninety-nine percent or you need [TS]

  silver who said it was you know the [TS]

  two-to-one odds because that makes the [TS]

  difference there [TS]

  well I woke up loving that guy from [TS]

  Princeton and woke up the next day one [TS]

  and have a talk with he wrote a blog [TS]

  post and it's just kinda hilarious [TS]

  because it's like dude you said greater [TS]

  than ninety-nine percent probability i [TS]

  don't think you know how probability [TS]

  works like that was and that was nate [TS]

  silver people were really ragged on nate [TS]

  silver about it not to get too much into [TS]

  the election but it's like it's over all [TS]

  along he got crap from so many people [TS]

  saying Donald Trump had a chance he's [TS]

  like look if we miss our numbers up then [TS]

  she's gonna have a she's gonna have a [TS]

  sweep but if we miss that if the polls [TS]

  are all off two percent down which like [TS]

  by less than they were off for Obama [TS]

  Romney just which was like off by 3% if [TS]

  they're off in Trump's favored by 2% [TS]

  he's gonna win the electrical and like [TS]

  he said that days before the election [TS]

  everyone that's what they were off by 2% [TS]

  yeah you so it was chosen from within [TS]

  that cone of pop probably no poles [TS]

  nationwide her up three percent and she [TS]

  wound up winning the popular vote by 1% [TS]

  which honors and was not please don't [TS]

  email me i know i'm not arguing that [TS]

  means she should be President I know the [TS]

  rules the idea though is that if a [TS]

  candidate especially the Democrat only [TS]

  wins because of the electoral college [TS]

  only win the popular vote by 1% that [TS]

  there's a very high probability that the [TS]

  Republican candidate will win the [TS]

  electoral college and it's exactly will [TS]

  happen [TS]

  yes and it this year the left in 2012 [TS]

  silver said that that it was actually a [TS]

  motto bama's favor the way the states [TS]

  were stacking up he could have lost the [TS]

  popular by half a percent or something [TS]

  anyone the left right for this election [TS]

  the way it stacked up that and they [TS]

  factored in like a form [TS]

  before you can go back and look they [TS]

  said they had like an eight ten twelve [TS]

  percent chance the Trump would lose the [TS]

  popular vote and when the electoral [TS]

  college and so like you know [TS]

  probabilities are hard it's hard for [TS]

  people to understand the New York Times [TS]

  said that field goal the whole time and [TS]

  that was one of my thoughts on election [TS]

  night was like I guess you missed the [TS]

  field goal but it's a 30 NFL fan when [TS]

  they say her chances are like making a [TS]

  thirty-eight-year-old yard field goal in [TS]

  the NFL it's like you know what people [TS]

  miss it 38-yard field goals all the time [TS]

  i asked buffalo bills and Seth's yeah [TS]

  yeah it happens let me take a break here [TS]

  they're gonna sponsor it is one of our [TS]

  best friends of the show it's Harry's [TS]

  Harry's makes shaving products they make [TS]

  themselves they are terrific terrific [TS]

  big razor companies i'm not gonna name [TS]

  names i'm not going to name that in [TS]

  gillette chick they have this annoying [TS]

  habit of putting out new models but you [TS]

  know the Mach 7 whatever the hell they [TS]

  call the new thing and what they do [TS]

  every time they put out a new model is [TS]

  they raised their already high prices [TS]

  unlike those guys Harry's doesn't want [TS]

  to have charged they're going for low [TS]

  prices [TS]

  that's why they made their razors even [TS]

  better they have just upgraded their [TS]

  whole line of razors and handles and [TS]

  they're keeping the prices exactly the [TS]

  same they're not just putting on a new [TS]

  line to make you feel like 12 hours to [TS]

  spend more to get more now you pay the [TS]

  same prices with that they already had [TS]

  which were already lower than the [TS]

  national big brands and they've improved [TS]

  everything there are five blade razors [TS]

  now include softflex hinge for a more [TS]

  comfortable glide they now include a [TS]

  trimmer blade for hard-to-reach places [TS]

  which I think for most men at least is [TS]

  like that little area right under your [TS]

  nose a lubricating strip and a textured [TS]

  handle for more control when it's wet [TS]

  it's they sent me one and I have to say [TS]

  I love my old one [TS]

  I've had it for years that I mean I've [TS]

  had it since Harry started sponsoring my [TS]

  show it was like I think around 20 years [TS]

  ago it feels like and when I put the old [TS]

  one away here's the thing it still looks [TS]

  brand new [TS]

  which is bizarre it is their stuff is [TS]

  built to last but the new one the [TS]

  textured handle it's clearly better the [TS]

  instant upgrade [TS]

  no problem [TS]

  and it's still just two bucks per blade [TS]

  compared to four dollars or more that [TS]

  you'll pay the drugstore brands like [TS]

  Gillette they own our own factory in [TS]

  Germany where they make plays they don't [TS]

  just buy like cut-rate blades on some [TS]

  kind of open market and then just slap [TS]

  Harry's label on them they have their [TS]

  own razor blade factory in Germany where [TS]

  they make these blades and then they can [TS]

  keep the prices low because they sell [TS]

  them direct to you [TS]

  Harry's is so confident in the quality [TS]

  of blades [TS]

  they'll send you their popular free [TS]

  trial set which comes with a razor five [TS]

  blade cartridge and shaving gel [TS]

  it's free when you sign up for a shave [TS]

  plan all you do is pay shipping plus [TS]

  there's a special offer for fans of the [TS]

  talkshow get a bottle of Harry's post [TS]

  shave balm added to your order for free [TS]

  when you visit Harry's dot-com and use [TS]

  the code talk show know that just talk [TS]

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  shave balm it's good stuff smells good [TS]

  feels good i've got it it's really [TS]

  really nice stuff so go to Harry's calm [TS]

  right now and use talk show at checkout [TS]

  to claim your free trial set and post [TS]

  shave balm which is better than the deal [TS]

  you get from most other podcast so [TS]

  remember that that's Harry's dot-com [TS]

  code talk show you talked about the [TS]

  control strip before we move on to other [TS]

  things we do you remember this is the [TS]

  stupidest question I've ever going to [TS]

  ask do you remember the court control [TS]

  strip classic mac OS do I remember the [TS]

  control strip [TS]

  yeah I actually booted up a an emulator [TS]

  the other day to look at it to just [TS]

  remind myself but god I like I had that [TS]

  on my powerbook don't you remember like [TS]

  CPU connect expounder book utilities [TS]

  which like added items to the control [TS]

  and loved it yes [TS]

  yeah toi I mean that was that was that [TS]

  was like the dock of its day to put in [TS]

  clatters know who our modern mac users [TS]

  you know it to me was better it was one [TS]

  of the things I mean famously or maybe [TS]

  not famously because I was a little [TS]

  maybe more obscure but the first like 34 [TS]

  years of daring fireball is mostly me [TS]

  bitching about Mack [TS]

  I was 10 in the ways that the interface [TS]

  is not as good as the classic mac OS and [TS]

  control strip is one of those things [TS]

  where it was so perfectly Mac like every [TS]

  pixel of it was perfectly it of the way [TS]

  that things were supposed to look in [TS]

  that OS and just everything for doing [TS]

  the close button the little the little [TS]

  zipper thing that you would just tap to [TS]

  make it expand and contract that just [TS]

  everything about it was so nice and it [TS]

  was so elegant and it felt so right for [TS]

  the mac system-wide that you just have [TS]

  this little thing and then you could [TS]

  eventually you could drag it around to [TS]

  any corner didn't have to be in a corner [TS]

  I think it had to be a corner right [TS]

  no it could be it could be anywhere [TS]

  learning either somewhere along the left [TS]

  or right and you'd zip it open and you [TS]

  get all these little icons and they [TS]

  opened it up to third parties and third [TS]

  parties did some really useful stuff and [TS]

  like the mac equivalent Mac os10 [TS]

  equivalent of it is all these little [TS]

  turd icons in the top-right of our men [TS]

  toolbars or the menu bar menu bar you [TS]

  still got them all those my cards were [TS]

  there in the old Mac OS that those would [TS]

  all be control strip items and your [TS]

  menubar would only have menus and then [TS]

  anything else would be in a control [TS]

  strip which was really nice [TS]

  it bothers me i will end 15 years later [TS]

  that we don't we don't we had something [TS]

  so elegant as the control strip and now [TS]

  we've put all these terms and our menu [TS]

  bars [TS]

  I wonder if bartender this bartender let [TS]

  you put their bar anywhere [TS]

  I wonder about that like this bartender [TS]

  is kind of like that where you can [TS]

  actually pull things out of the menu bar [TS]

  and put them in a little bartender bar [TS]

  and I wonder if you can you can [TS]

  yeah you can I think you can move it [TS]

  around hmm i look at that i looked at [TS]

  bartender remember looking at years ago [TS]

  and for some reason and rejected it but [TS]

  maybe I should take another look [TS]

  yeah I don't know it's it's not i mean [TS]

  its hat its kind of hacky although it's [TS]

  got some things going forward i use it [TS]

  to clean up my menu bar because there's [TS]

  some items that I don't need to see most [TS]

  of the time but I can't really need to [TS]

  get to it but it's it's in the ballpark [TS]

  right and the idea there is could [TS]

  imagine pulling all of the stuff off the [TS]

  menu bar and putting [TS]

  in this little little bar that that you [TS]

  talk somewhere else so you pop up [TS]

  somewhere else and yeah we just I think [TS]

  the answer is screen real estate is that [TS]

  that in the control strip was designed [TS]

  to be very small when collapsed and then [TS]

  you pop it open to get to the UI and [TS]

  floated above everything and then you [TS]

  turn off appletalk or do whatever you [TS]

  need to do or connect via PPE to the [TS]

  Internet in the dial-in with your modem [TS]

  and then you and then you snap it closed [TS]

  in the end it just is a little this [TS]

  little tiny thing in the corner and then [TS]

  you're done and now we've got these huge [TS]

  monitors and they just littered with [TS]

  menu bar I demand the top but yea [TS]

  control trip was great it was it was an [TS]

  unsung hero of the sort of latter-day [TS]

  classic mac OS yeah really was and I'm [TS]

  so it started on laptops to and then was [TS]

  so popular they they brought it to the [TS]

  desktop to every computer even though it [TS]

  started on powerbook I i haven't I wish [TS]

  that I had asked while I was talking to [TS]

  people from apple but I I can't help but [TS]

  think that they named the new thing that [TS]

  control strip that it's not a [TS]

  coincidence that it's you know I built [TS]

  by people who remember deal with because [TS]

  it's so similar in concept the way it [TS]

  zips open from the song yeah I mentioned [TS]

  it to them I was like that's a familiar [TS]

  name and like yeah we knew we knew [TS]

  yeah you know some of you guys would [TS]

  notice that we reuse the name and you [TS]

  know it's it's uh it's a cute reference [TS]

  like I think that's what they were going [TS]

  for was those in the know it was you [TS]

  know apples aware of all these things [TS]

  that has the intellectual you know [TS]

  property in the trademark for and that [TS]

  was a name that they had and it was [TS]

  doing a similar job and so they used to [TS]

  him and it just adds similar character [TS]

  you know just the way that it animates [TS]

  soup not-so-nice yep [TS]

  anything else on the macbook pros I i [TS]

  have 1i guess broad topic about it but [TS]

  anything you want to talk about with the [TS]

  new macbook pros [TS]

  I don't know I I mean it's the other big [TS]

  thing about them well I mean we [TS]

  mentioned touch bar we mentioned touch [TS]

  ID the other big thing about him is the [TS]

  port's em and I feel sort of talked out [TS]

  about it because we've been talking [TS]

  about it since the macbook came out a [TS]

  year ago and almost two years ago now [TS]

  and certainly in the last month since [TS]

  the apple event and I'm kind of over it [TS]

  like [TS]

  it support transition it stinks [TS]

  everybody knows that stinks [TS]

  everybody buys adapters there's a period [TS]

  where everybody's got the adapters and [TS]

  has old hardware and then eventually it [TS]

  goes away and I think USBC invulnerable [TS]

  three is like a good direction to go [TS]

  and the only way you get there is by [TS]

  going through a transition so here we [TS]

  are and you know I I don't know if I I'm [TS]

  I i I'm kind of drained of outrage or [TS]

  something like that because i do think [TS]

  it's superior in almost every way every [TS]

  time I try to plug something into the [TS]

  back of my imac and get the USB [TS]

  orientation wrong and have to flip it [TS]

  over and peer into the port to make sure [TS]

  that i'm doing it right [TS]

  I think well USBC dependable three solve [TS]

  this [TS]

  this is dumb and so you know I i get i [TS]

  get people complaining about it and [TS]

  there right to complain about it but at [TS]

  the same time I feel like in the long [TS]

  run it's going to be it's going to be [TS]

  great and I'm gonna miss magsafe um I [TS]

  will but at the same time I think it's [TS]

  also cool that you can on the on the [TS]

  touch bar models you can plug in your [TS]

  mac on either side that is great that is [TS]

  so great [TS]

  it's so many yeah there are so many [TS]

  times where it's at the worst is when [TS]

  you're far enough away from the power or [TS]

  it would fit to the right but not the [TS]

  left [TS]

  yeah it's just the but there's other [TS]

  times we just don't want to have to [TS]

  drape it around the outside where it [TS]

  just is inelegant like I'm in one case [TS]

  for me it was an east coaster is [TS]

  sometimes if you're on the acela on the [TS]

  United on the East Coast train amtrak [TS]

  acela you can get there's some really [TS]

  cool seats that have a table in between [TS]

  them but you're facing people on the [TS]

  other side and the tables are relatively [TS]

  as you might expect there it's not a [TS]

  very wide table you know you're pretty [TS]

  close but you have enough space were two [TS]

  people back to back can you know put [TS]

  their laptops you no fair you know [TS]

  easily but if you wanted to stretch the [TS]

  power around the other side it's you [TS]

  know you can do it but it it so be so [TS]

  much easier if you could always just [TS]

  plug it in on the side closest to the [TS]

  wall [TS]

  yeah yeah so it's again i get i get [TS]

  people's complaints about it maybe I'm [TS]

  just a little jaded because I've seen [TS]

  all before it's like yes everybody will [TS]

  complain yes it will be a pain yes we [TS]

  will need adapters then we'll get over [TS]

  it and then in a few years we'll look [TS]

  back and think wow I can't believe that [TS]

  we use that I this stuff so much bad [TS]

  link to a couple of examples from like [TS]

  four years ago macbook pros and they it [TS]

  was so uncanny how the almost [TS]

  word-for-word you didn't even have to [TS]

  like edit out like it you know one you [TS]

  know the name of the port they would [TS]

  just be like to have you know not enough [TS]

  ports too thin not you know they're [TS]

  eight exactly word for word what people [TS]

  are saying about these i also believe i [TS]

  have written about this too but i [TS]

  believe firmly that Apple's aggressive [TS]

  traditional not just in this case with [TS]

  the going all USBC Thunderbolt three but [TS]

  they've you know that they've done this [TS]

  so many times in the past that it it [TS]

  brings about the future we're being all [TS]

  USBC is fine [TS]

  sooner than if they had stuck a couple [TS]

  of legacy ports on on the devices if [TS]

  they put it you know old school USB and [TS]

  one old Thunderbolt or something like [TS]

  that in I firmly I can't prove it there [TS]

  is no way to prove it without the [TS]

  ability to take a fork the universe in a [TS]

  but in the alternate universe where [TS]

  these new MacBook Pros have like a USB [TS]

  port and a Thunderbolt port I don't know [TS]

  what other ports people still wish they [TS]

  had but alright SD card reader or [TS]

  something like that i really believe [TS]

  that two or three years ago [TS]

  it's less of a it's less of a USBC [TS]

  everywhere world [TS]

  oh sure I mean I I think I it's only a [TS]

  matter of degrees because you I think [TS]

  you made this point on daring fireball [TS]

  which is if you have legacy ports you [TS]

  have no motivation to switch because you [TS]

  can just keep using your legacy port but [TS]

  once you've switched and you have no [TS]

  more of the old ports then there's no [TS]

  longer any point in buying anything [TS]

  using the old ports and you move to the [TS]

  new ports and that and then you move on [TS]

  and and it the longer you leave the [TS]

  bridge and apples done that in the past [TS]

  where they left the bridges and they've [TS]

  done it with a rip the band-aid off and [TS]

  I this time they decided to rip the [TS]

  band-aid off and i I'm I'm okay with it [TS]

  I [TS]

  in fact the people that I I have the [TS]

  most sympathy for are probably like the [TS]

  photographers and videographers who use [TS]

  that SD card slot and I totally get why [TS]

  it is a pain to have to go from having [TS]

  no reader to having a reader as somebody [TS]

  who use an 11-inch air [TS]

  I didn't have a slide haha i already had [TS]

  already felt that pain but I get it I [TS]

  totally get that say I get that one too [TS]

  I i do get it and it speaks to how [TS]

  useful the s2 built in SD slot is too [TS]

  serious photographers that Apple did it [TS]

  ever in the first place because it's the [TS]

  least appellee thing that they've done [TS]

  in a long time it is [TS]

  yes it's just like since they put s [TS]

  video on the Macintosh yeah like why is [TS]

  this 40 right it has to be if it's so [TS]

  underrated it really it's it the SD card [TS]

  slot on max is the return of the floppy [TS]

  drive i mean its way you know that you [TS]

  know thousands of times faster and [TS]

  thousands of you know times more storage [TS]

  but it's you know the floppy drive it [TS]

  isn't police Tapley thing I know so it's [TS]

  I eat the fact that it's so useful is [TS]

  the reason they did it in the first [TS]

  place but the fact that they removed it [TS]

  is because the reason why it you know [TS]

  Apple was the first company to remove [TS]

  the floppy drive right although i mean i [TS]

  just bought for experimenting for like [TS]

  podcasting stuff I bought an SD card [TS]

  that does Wi-Fi it's not the ID by it's [TS]

  a it's a toshiba i think one and it's [TS]

  pretty good you know it's again not [TS]

  perfect but i can see apple's philosophy [TS]

  here to of saying you know you can get a [TS]

  card reader and then there are also new [TS]

  wireless technologies in in the SD cards [TS]

  in the cameras the another there are [TS]

  other ways to transfer this stuff or you [TS]

  bring a cable and attach your camera [TS]

  direct you know it's not but I i get it [TS]

  i like I get why why that's a bit major [TS]

  inconvenience because that was their you [TS]

  know their storage medium of choice and [TS]

  had a reader built in now [TS]

  now it's gone I totally get it that said [TS]

  that there's still a fair number i [TS]

  realized SD is the most popular size but [TS]

  there's still a number people shooting [TS]

  on canons that shoot the caf [TS]

  card and there's other cameras that she [TS]

  did use the supermicro almost like sim [TS]

  cards size SD card right super time [TS]

  yeah and then with them you have to [TS]

  bring an adapter you know usually it's i [TS]

  think most people probably used there's [TS]

  SD standard SD card sized adapters that [TS]

  you slide it in and then you put into [TS]

  your still you know it wasn't an ideal [TS]

  world and i feel like the world where [TS]

  everything just works wirelessly and you [TS]

  can very very quickly [TS]

  airdrop things equivalent of airdrop [TS]

  whether it's actually officially drop or [TS]

  not but just you know a lot of things [TS]

  from your standalone camera to your [TS]

  macbook it's gonna come quicker now that [TS]

  the SD card is not in Macintosh's yeah I [TS]

  I think that's true but i think i think [TS]

  maybe they'll be a little longer of a [TS]

  pain the pain transition will be a [TS]

  little different there than for like us [TS]

  getting stuff but i just think back to [TS]

  like you know the imac throughout their [TS]

  cereal ADB and and scuzzy all in one [TS]

  throw for four USB and this is this is a [TS]

  little bit like that I guess the last [TS]

  thing i want to talk about is it the [TS]

  whole the the people arguing that these [TS]

  aren't pro devices that ok they're nice [TS]

  it's nice enough but it's not a pro [TS]

  device because it's not the fastest [TS]

  intel mobile chipset it's not the one [TS]

  that I don't get into the details but [TS]

  Apple wants to use the low-energy ram [TS]

  and they'll use it with by wanting to [TS]

  use the low-energy ram their limited to [TS]

  16 gigabytes right now that's gonna [TS]

  change soon enough i get i would bet in [TS]

  2017 there will be an update to the [TS]

  macbook pros that support at least 32 [TS]

  gigabytes of RAM I don't know if it go [TS]

  to 64-bit will be at least 6 32 but [TS]

  there's people who would want just to [TS]

  name one thing that they would rather [TS]

  have apple build a at least as an option [TS]

  another level of macbook pro that I say [TS]

  has a better graphics card a higher [TS]

  energy that ram that that would support [TS]

  up to 32 or more gigabytes of RAM even [TS]

  if it takes more energy [TS]

  and would rather have a significant hit [TS]

  on battery life but a performance [TS]

  improvement and they'll just plug it in [TS]

  or you know get less battery life why [TS]

  wont Apple build that machine and let [TS]

  them buy it yeah I'm i guess i get that [TS]

  although i think your Apple you know [TS]

  what the sweet spot of your market is [TS]

  and you know who's buying these things [TS]

  and and again it sucks if you are the [TS]

  person who's in the corner of the market [TS]

  that is small but you're in it so it's [TS]

  super important to you and apple look 7 [TS]

  goes are we really going to solve are we [TS]

  gonna build one reference sort of design [TS]

  for the macbook pro and it's going to [TS]

  cater to two percent of our market or [TS]

  four percent of our market are we really [TS]

  going to do that and you know the [TS]

  customer not everybody needs to be [TS]

  targeted customers not always right not [TS]

  everybody needs to be targeted and that [TS]

  stinks if you're in that in that area [TS]

  that we're apples like look you agree [TS]

  just gonna have to suffer because we're [TS]

  not going to build this product we would [TS]

  have to make major changes in order to [TS]

  build this product so that it would also [TS]

  overlap your needs so I get that I also [TS]

  think though Apple knows about the march [TS]

  of time and the market technology and as [TS]

  in so many of these apple product [TS]

  designs they're kind of looking ahead [TS]

  and maybe some of that is that they [TS]

  expected more from Intel that I would [TS]

  maybe that can help but i also think [TS]

  true little I do [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah and I i have this you [TS]

  talk about next year's like yeah you [TS]

  think Apple would use its influence with [TS]

  intel maybe to say how about a 32 gig [TS]

  ceiling next time right [TS]

  can you work on that because we really [TS]

  could use that but in this same [TS]

  enclosure with the same power profile [TS]

  and all of that next year stuff is going [TS]

  to be able to do way more than this year [TS]

  stuff and the year after that because [TS]

  this this this model will probably be [TS]

  the same one that we see in terms of the [TS]

  shape of it and the touch bar and all [TS]

  that this is probably also the 2018 [TS]

  macbook pro and the 2019 macbook pro on [TS]

  I think side and every year they're [TS]

  going to have more capabilities fitting [TS]

  in this small K so this is the year [TS]

  where it's kind of a tough ask and next [TS]

  year will be better and and that's again [TS]

  stinks if you're not in there now and [TS]

  you need a laptop now it is [TS]

  I have no arguments for you yeah that's [TS]

  terrible i get it right [TS]

  I think you know you have to think I [TS]

  keep thinking about it from like a [TS]

  marketing perspective product marketing [TS]

  perspective is that Apple has three [TS]

  slots for macbooks for families of [TS]

  macbooks and they you know they have [TS]

  their gradients that blend between them [TS]

  at price points you know where there's [TS]

  like a hundred dollar at every hundred [TS]

  dollars from like 999 up to you know [TS]

  four thousand dollars almost you know [TS]

  there's configurations that you can buy [TS]

  but fundamentally there's the macbook [TS]

  cheap in other words price is your [TS]

  biggest concern and that is the macbook [TS]

  air and it has been for the last few [TS]

  years the whole entire reason the [TS]

  macbook air is still being sold is to [TS]

  hit the 999 starting price point right [TS]

  it's like the old plastic macbook was [TS]

  back in the day before it got eclipsed [TS]

  by the magic you know I forgot about [TS]

  this the last time you were on the show [TS]

  the last time you were on the show back [TS]

  in August we were talking about macbooks [TS]

  speculating about what we're now talking [TS]

  about nine site and you did something [TS]

  about the macbook pro being the best [TS]

  selling mac and yeah that was totally [TS]

  everybody said no no it's like I heard [TS]

  somebody because the prices so right and [TS]

  it worked weird weird to me and you are [TS]

  thinking too much about people like us [TS]

  and really I heard from a couple people [TS]

  who work in apple retail stores and [TS]

  they're like you just cannot even [TS]

  believe how many people when they come [TS]

  in to get a new mac it's it and you can [TS]

  you know and they can you can you know [TS]

  they say kids dealing with them and you [TS]

  know these apple the people who work in [TS]

  the source of various it's very clear [TS]

  that these people just you know they [TS]

  want to get a mac they're definitely you [TS]

  know you can tell they're gonna buy one [TS]

  but they're not definitely there's no [TS]

  doubt they're going to get the air it's [TS]

  just a question of which one because you [TS]

  know about a hundred dollars is the most [TS]

  more they're gonna spend and it's all [TS]

  about and I'm an imac I macbook areas [TS]

  that are right I i haven't used macbook [TS]

  pro in years so for me I think i got i [TS]

  was too busy focusing on like the [TS]

  flagship and the one that's got the [TS]

  probably the biggest profit margin right [TS]

  right but that's not the same as I mean [TS]

  and that's why that 999 13-inch non-red [TS]

  air is still there right because that is [TS]

  that is priced to move and that's the [TS]

  price that gets you into a mac laptop [TS]

  and it's a pretty you know what it's a [TS]

  pretty good system it's pretty it's a [TS]

  pretty good mix [TS]

  power and price it really is even today [TS]

  people who are thinking of the old pc [TS]

  industry in a way that everything every [TS]

  six to eight months you'd you know just [TS]

  put new chips and you know everything [TS]

  would get faster and he'd always be you [TS]

  know swapping out in a way that the [TS]

  macbook air is effectively unchanged in [TS]

  the prices unchanged prices and going [TS]

  down there keeping it in 99 it's it's [TS]

  because people keep buying them it is a [TS]

  best-selling device and they don't mind [TS]

  people don't mind it fast enough for [TS]

  them so you know you could say that [TS]

  Apple is under like some kind of moral [TS]

  obligation to you know cut the Pricer [TS]

  you know but it's you know business-wise [TS]

  you know that's it doesn't make any [TS]

  sense [TS]

  it's a very popular device and it exists [TS]

  just to hit that price point then [TS]

  there's the macbook pro which is right [TS]

  now it's the same size there's no [TS]

  argument in size or weight between a [TS]

  13-inch macbook pro in a macbook air it [TS]

  is just you know if you want to say pro [TS]

  it's really you know like I I emphasize [TS]

  the word nice in my review its the [TS]

  macbook nice in our the macbook premium [TS]

  if you want to call it it is you know [TS]

  it's there in every single regarded as [TS]

  nicer faster as the retina screen and [TS]

  now it has a super bright red screen and [TS]

  then in between is the macbook then in [TS]

  light which you know that's what now is [TS]

  called the macbook 10 years ago or eight [TS]

  years ago was the macbook air and you [TS]

  still pay a pretty penny a premium for [TS]

  the thinnest and lightness and the [TS]

  niceness and it has a Retina screen and [TS]

  it just it's just it's just sexy right i [TS]

  mean that's just it is like the little [TS]

  convertible sports car right it is [TS]

  really really i was in a meeting i'm on [TS]

  this panel at Drexel University that [TS]

  meets like once a year like it its [TS]

  alumni advisors in this thing and it [TS]

  would be able to meet I don't go to [TS]

  meetings very often and we just had a [TS]

  meeting and there is a guy who had the [TS]

  the you know the current macbook and all [TS]

  i could think is a goddamn that is a [TS]

  nice that is a nice-looking laptop I [TS]

  don't it's not really for me right but [TS]

  it's like I you know and I think he's [TS]

  you know you just typing emails on it [TS]

  and it's like wow that is a nice thing [TS]

  to carry around [TS]

  is there room for something else like [TS]

  that would be yeah this isn't my [TS]

  proposed marketing name but the the [TS]

  macbook max for the macbook the power [TS]

  the power mac book pro or you know [TS]

  whatever you want to call it something [TS]

  that trades battery life and maybe some [TS]

  thinnest and wait for sheer computing [TS]

  power [TS]

  well it's the equivalent I mean it's a [TS]

  slot that they haven't had for a little [TS]

  while because if you think about the the [TS]

  areas like the plastic macbook and the [TS]

  macbook is where the areas to be macbook [TS]

  pro is still sort of where it was and at [TS]

  in terms of 13 and 15 and then there's [TS]

  this lot that used to be like the the [TS]

  lunge a right the cafeteria for the [TS]

  17-inch macbook pro and they just don't [TS]

  make that computer anymore but you know [TS]

  and and i think this is a lot of the pro [TS]

  fear about Apple is that laptop doesn't [TS]

  exist and the mac pro basically doesn't [TS]

  exist because it's been abandoned since [TS]

  it was released three years ago and so [TS]

  here we are [TS]

  like what is this what does this all [TS]

  mean does apple care about that that [TS]

  market enough to make a product for it [TS]

  or do pros have to kind of sneak out [TS]

  their livelihood on computers that were [TS]

  not really made for them because that's [TS]

  the best that Apple once not can offer [TS]

  wants to offer is willing to offer and i [TS]

  don't know i mean they totally could I [TS]

  I'm a little surprised that they didn't [TS]

  take the old macbook pro and stuff [TS]

  something even more powerful in there in [TS]

  the old enclosure and just say look [TS]

  we've got this thing that's got old [TS]

  ports and it's got its got the latest [TS]

  Intel processors in the latest GPU and [TS]

  go to 10 and no touch bar and just it's [TS]

  also available you can max it out you [TS]

  can load it up with stuff and if you [TS]

  really need it you can you can take I [TS]

  sympathize and I'm hearing from readers [TS]

  and listeners and I see it and I believe [TS]

  I believe them [TS]

  I don't think it's like an idle threat [TS]

  but I'm hearing from people saying I i [TS]

  think i have to switch back to Windows [TS]

  you know because I I need to be able to [TS]

  buy something and it's clear Apple isn't [TS]

  gonna make it for me and that is the [TS]

  advantage of its always been the [TS]

  advantage of the pc market place is that [TS]

  you [TS]

  well [TS]

  Apple's whole Apple has holes in its [TS]

  lineup and right now its hole is a [TS]

  notebook that is optimized for let's [TS]

  just say I was gonna say power but that [TS]

  sounds like it might be energy [TS]

  performance sheer performance the most [TS]

  Ram Charan the fastest ships in the [TS]

  fastest graphics they don't have that [TS]

  they don't sell it and there are pc [TS]

  laptops that have you know the fastest [TS]

  intel cpus and incredibly fast hot GPUs [TS]

  and you know they just you know [TS]

  sacrifice battery life and wait for that [TS]

  apple doesn't feel that the pic the hole [TS]

  in the pc market is in my opinion [TS]

  niceness there's nothing you can buy on [TS]

  the pc market that's as nice as a [TS]

  macbook pro um obviously that's [TS]

  subjective obviously the difference in [TS]

  that and it drives people some people [TS]

  not is you can measure performance you [TS]

  can go run a benchmark and come up with [TS]

  a number [TS]

  there's no benchmark for how nice the [TS]

  machine is and how much I appreciate the [TS]

  new hinge when I lift open the thing but [TS]

  I feel it in my gut and I believe it [TS]

  that's what you give up it's a shame [TS]

  that there are people who love mac o Mac [TS]

  os10 love the mac and but have the that [TS]

  their personal needs are such that they [TS]

  want that machine because I don't think [TS]

  apple is going to make right and i think [TS]

  yeah it's so easy to come across as as [TS]

  not have be having sympathy for them or [TS]

  not caring about them and I that's not [TS]

  how I feel at all but if your Apple you [TS]

  have to make a calculation about you [TS]

  know first off there's all the things [TS]

  about what [TS]

  what's the product we if they went down [TS]

  this path and then realize that the you [TS]

  know that was going to limit them to 16 [TS]

  gigs ram and they're like well you know [TS]

  we thought until we come through with [TS]

  something different but they didn't [TS]

  maybe that happened or maybe they did [TS]

  they decided 16 was good enough for [TS]

  almost all cases what is the number of [TS]

  people for whom the highest-end mac [TS]

  laptop is simply not sufficient [TS]

  what is that number what's the size of [TS]

  that market and who are those people and [TS]

  are they influential and all that [TS]

  nada yeah and so you ask that you do [TS]

  have to buy something right now or or [TS]

  can they wait a year for something that [TS]

  will be you know the better more [TS]

  efficient more powerful in the same [TS]

  space and that's for me that's the [TS]

  question like [TS]

  if Apple I'm sure Apple has done that [TS]

  calculation we know that Apple has very [TS]

  smart product marketing and research [TS]

  people and they look at this stuff and [TS]

  they've got access to data that we don't [TS]

  because they are apple and my guess is [TS]

  because these are the decisions they [TS]

  made that they looked at that and said [TS]

  that market is not sufficiently large [TS]

  enough the market were cutting off by [TS]

  making these decisions is not [TS]

  sufficiently large enough for us to not [TS]

  make these decisions so we're going to [TS]

  do it and maybe they're right and maybe [TS]

  they're wrong right maybe the wrong but [TS]

  if they're right it doesn't change the [TS]

  fact that there are lots of people [TS]

  potentially just not enough in that [TS]

  space we're gonna feel like apples and [TS]

  in them and you know what Apple has [TS]

  abandoned them apples said look if you [TS]

  need 32 gigs of ram in your laptop and [TS]

  this kind of bent you know like I'm in a [TS]

  real afm slack and and shahid Kamal [TS]

  Ahmad is in there and he's a he's a game [TS]

  developer and he's I think he's gonna [TS]

  buy one of these because he's also a mac [TS]

  fan but like he's doing windows [TS]

  development now and he looks at this and [TS]

  Brianna was like this to you know do it [TS]

  she knows about game development Stefan [TS]

  and they're like you know for for 3d and [TS]

  VR and stuff like that this hardware is [TS]

  kind of not good enough [TS]

  it's like it and and for gaming it's [TS]

  certainly not good enough but Apple has [TS]

  made that decision for years now if like [TS]

  we don't care if it's not good enough [TS]

  for gaming we don't optimize for gaming [TS]

  so I guess what I'm saying is it it [TS]

  could be that Apple's miscalculated here [TS]

  but it could also be that what we're [TS]

  hearing is the the people who are [TS]

  basically being told by Apple we're not [TS]

  going to make a computer [TS]

  going to make a computer [TS]

  that will satisfy you and apples not [TS]

  wrong to make that decision necessarily [TS]

  and they're definitely not wrong to be [TS]

  angry about it but it's not a sign that [TS]

  this was a misfire that some people are [TS]

  going to buy a PC because Apple can [TS]

  satisfy I think that it's also the case [TS]

  that apple wood designs to do you know [TS]

  eliminates makes choices for their [TS]

  customers because they've truly believe [TS]

  that they know better and they want to [TS]

  keep customers from making a mistake by [TS]

  which i mean let's say you go into the [TS]

  apple store and in you know you've got [TS]

  the money to spend and you want to buy a [TS]

  the best macbook pro that you can get [TS]

  for the best macbook located in case [TS]

  they had a different name like the [TS]

  macbook plus or whatever [TS]

  obviously there are some truly expert [TS]

  users game developers like you said [TS]

  people who really do know exactly [TS]

  yes I don't care finally get five hours [TS]

  of battery life instead of 10 i want the [TS]

  machine has this power I think Apple [TS]

  know that there's other people who come [TS]

  in and say well if this machine is is [TS]

  twenty-five hundred dollars in this [TS]

  other machine is twenty-five hundred [TS]

  dollars and thicker and heavier but look [TS]

  at the specs [TS]

  it's got more gigahertz it's got more [TS]

  ram that's clearly the better machine [TS]

  i'll buy the one that's better [TS]

  or maybe it's more expensive right I [TS]

  don't know but whatever if it can be [TS]

  mistaken as being better in them in [TS]

  their mind but it isn't for them that [TS]

  it's gigahertz extra gigahertz they [TS]

  don't need that extra graphics that they [TS]

  don't need its battery life that they [TS]

  were would appreciate if they had it [TS]

  that it would be a mistake for them to [TS]

  walk out of that store i think apple [TS]

  obviously it's not these macbook pros [TS]

  are not the best hypothetical macbook [TS]

  pros from november 2016 for every single [TS]

  person but i think what Apple is it i [TS]

  think it's you know restating what you [TS]

  said what Apple's tried to do is make [TS]

  the best machines for the most people [TS]

  and that keeps your mother and people [TS]

  from buying the wrong going the wrong [TS]

  way [TS]

  yeah and and it's it's not to come back [TS]

  to like when the customer like myths we [TS]

  have about companies succeeding or [TS]

  failing based on keeping their customers [TS]

  happy [TS]

  the truth is that it's not [TS]

  it's not a you choose to make everybody [TS]

  happy or you choose to make some people [TS]

  unhappy the truth is the choices you [TS]

  make are going to make somebody unhappy [TS]

  in most cases and you get to choose who [TS]

  you make unhappy and apple makes the [TS]

  choices and now we'll have to live with [TS]

  them and we'll see quite what happens [TS]

  but it you know if if Apple views the [TS]

  decisions about battery and about weight [TS]

  and about sighs and and says that you [TS]

  know ninety percent of our users care [TS]

  about that stuff and one percent of our [TS]

  users care about this other thing then [TS]

  you know I can see why they make that [TS]

  decision right and and it doesn't [TS]

  doesn't make it any more bitter if [TS]

  you're somebody who's kind of on the [TS]

  outside looking in saying i really like [TS]

  more than 16 gigs of ram and my laptop [TS]

  please or a better GPU but it's an open [TS]

  it's an open question like a pro like [TS]

  you said it means nice that's probably [TS]

  true in the mac pro it's the same [TS]

  question of like does Apple Apple as a [TS]

  company right now making is making [TS]

  decisions about what their audiences for [TS]

  these various products who are their [TS]

  customers and it may be that the apple [TS]

  of five years ago would be like oh man [TS]

  we gotta get the high-end super high-end [TS]

  developers and content creators and [TS]

  people who used to use linux and now use [TS]

  a use a Mac because they get the command [TS]

  line we got to get those people because [TS]

  we got to use them in the mac you know [TS]

  maybe apple a day is like now we're not [TS]

  interested in those people we want a [TS]

  mass-market of people the macbook pro is [TS]

  nice but it's not gonna be for everyone [TS]

  and that's their decision to make and if [TS]

  they want to turn their back on certain [TS]

  markets it might be a good business [TS]

  decision and if i was in those markets I [TS]

  would be pissed off that I think all [TS]

  these things are true I don't think if [TS]

  people in a certain markets switch to [TS]

  windows or linux it means the macbook [TS]

  pro is a bad decision necessarily [TS]

  because it you know it [TS]

  Apple Apple will not be surprised if [TS]

  that happens right that is not like [TS]

  these came out and apples like what they [TS]

  only have 16 gigs of ram haha were [TS]

  shocked right they made that decision [TS]

  they knew what the ramifications we're [TS]

  going to be and you know it's it's [TS]

  interesting if that's the case that a [TS]

  bunch of people maybe that they've kind [TS]

  of wood over [TS]

  to the mac over the last 15 years with [TS]

  OS 10 are now not in Mara not in their [TS]

  target anymore and then i will say i [TS]

  just think that you know again it's [TS]

  things could change [TS]

  you know the past does not always [TS]

  predict the future but if you look at [TS]

  the last 10 years of macbook sales you [TS]

  know it's you know it has gone down a [TS]

  little bit last year but I think that's [TS]

  mostly been people waiting you know but [TS]

  yeah it's the apples priorities [TS]

  prioritizing a witness to an obstet [TS]

  almost obsessive degree at prioritizing [TS]

  battery life to an almost obsessive [TS]

  degree you know and it really I i come [TS]

  back to this many many times that the [TS]

  order of your priorities matters [TS]

  tremendously even if you have liked to [TS]

  you know the customer and the Apple have [TS]

  like the same top four priorities you [TS]

  know but they're in slightly different [TS]

  order it makes it makes a tremendous [TS]

  difference in a resulting product and [TS]

  apples the blister order of priorities [TS]

  has shown to be very successful [TS]

  yeah and that's that's the thing is is a [TS]

  Apple Apple it could be making a bad [TS]

  decision here it's entirely possible [TS]

  that they're making a bad decision here [TS]

  and we'll find out what the market says [TS]

  about it but they have their priorities [TS]

  and a lot of it is something that is [TS]

  just sort of like quintessentially apple [TS]

  and you know when we say they prioritize [TS]

  the battery i mean i think that the [TS]

  right thing to say there is really like [TS]

  they prioritize the weight and men's the [TS]

  thinness and the battery comes third [TS]

  where the battery has to hit some kind [TS]

  of metric but but really no more than [TS]

  that because every inch every minute [TS]

  every hour of battery life above what [TS]

  they think is optimal is added weight [TS]

  and thickness that they risk that that [TS]

  you know you don't get you get enough [TS]

  battery to hit like with the ipad it's [TS]

  whatever 10 hours and that's it you [TS]

  don't get any more battery and that with [TS]

  the macbook it's it's a little more [TS]

  complicated you know because its battery [TS]

  life and power saving in the operating [TS]

  system and all those things but you know [TS]

  that's that's their priority so so [TS]

  they're gonna they're gonna put thinness [TS]

  and and and lightness and and battery [TS]

  life and power in maybe that sequence [TS]

  where [TS]

  somebody else would put power first I'm [TS]

  and I'm generalizing from that it's time [TS]

  to my gut feeling in the early years of [TS]

  of that inflection point where most you [TS]

  know the most max old were laptops and [TS]

  notebooks i should say i had a positive [TS]

  note books instead of laptops but [TS]

  notebooks instead of desktops right [TS]

  there was that you know and it used to [TS]

  be [TS]

  yeah because notebook computers were so [TS]

  phenomenally expensive that it was [TS]

  really at a luxury item just to have [TS]

  like the lowest end power yeah and at [TS]

  the inflection point where they became [TS]

  the most popular max I felt for years it [TS]

  was very consistent where Apple would [TS]

  say you can get six hours of battery [TS]

  life and in the real world [TS]

  he always got you seem to get about [TS]

  three and a half four hours like that [TS]

  apple would say six and it was always [TS]

  you know it seemed to me like it was for [TS]

  me flying coast-to-coast you know 56 our [TS]

  flights it never seems to be enough to [TS]

  go on a full charge coast-to-coast it [TS]

  was right you know in real use and [TS]

  that's before before they have Wi-Fi and [TS]

  then there was that you know at some [TS]

  point when they hit with a you know I [TS]

  think the Intel transition definitely [TS]

  had something to do with it all of a [TS]

  sudden the battery life did start [TS]

  creeping up and it seemed like that was [TS]

  a private of higher priority for apple [TS]

  on an annual basis where I really was [TS]

  suddenly getting six hours of battery [TS]

  life and you really could get seven [TS]

  hours eight hours 10 it seems like once [TS]

  they hit 10 they were like we're done [TS]

  you know but now yeah you know that will [TS]

  hold that point steady and you know I [TS]

  know that the 10 isn't necessarily 10-4 [TS]

  all tasks but 10 under there [TS]

  you know testing conditions yeah there [TS]

  will light light use 10 hours right [TS]

  because if you if you really are dead [TS]

  doing editing audio or video or [TS]

  something like that it will it will [TS]

  bleed that thing dry way faster than [TS]

  that and that's that's just how it is [TS]

  that's that's not what they're shooting [TS]

  all right let me take a break here and [TS]

  thank our third and final sponsor long [TS]

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  two of two external drives go back on [TS]

  both up it might take awhile depending [TS]

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  back five bucks a month that's it [TS]

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  recommended him for years they have so [TS]

  many features that it's everything you [TS]

  might want them to do they can do let's [TS]

  say you need restoration of everything [TS]

  you've got [TS]

  well if you want to though they can [TS]

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  you on fedex because let's face it [TS]

  downloading three terabytes of stuff [TS]

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  maybe you know in some kind of emergency [TS]

  situation where you need it all [TS]

  you can get it overnighted you can use [TS]

  like their iOS app and login and just [TS]

  get one file and email to somebody you [TS]

  can just access all the files on your [TS]

  Mac backed up through back plays so [TS]

  anything from one file to getting [TS]

  everything on your Mac overnighted to [TS]

  you on a hard drive they can do they [TS]

  have over 200 petabytes of data that has [TS]

  been stored by back plays over 10 [TS]

  billion files have been restored to [TS]

  their customers [TS]

  it is a great addition to local backups [TS]

  like having an external drive running [TS]

  time machine or I i use super duper to [TS]

  clone my startup drive every every day [TS]

  or two a great utility having an [TS]

  off-site backup that runs automatically [TS]

  just silently invisibly in the [TS]

  background [TS]

  just software that never gets in the way [TS]

  it's not like all of a sudden when back [TS]

  play starts backing up your stuff you [TS]

  know you're the fans spin up you don't [TS]

  even notice i never noticed it just [