The Talk Show

176: ‘Frolic’, With Special Guest Craig Hockenberry


  Craig's good to hear your voice yeah [TS]

  likewise [TS]

  it's been awhile since we talked yeah [TS]

  what you wanna do this let's just get [TS]

  out of the way we got to talk about this [TS]

  Trump tech tech summit because here's [TS]

  the thing man [TS]

  you know what I said when I think I mean [TS]

  you're going to lead off with this I [TS]

  would have you know starting my heart [TS]

  holiday party [TS]

  here's the thing even as I'm not really [TS]

  shying away from writing about politics [TS]

  on daring fireball even if I decided [TS]

  that if I had chosen differently and [TS]

  said you know what I'm not you know [TS]

  whatever my feelings are going to make [TS]

  this a politics frite site even even in [TS]

  this there's that here's an intersection [TS]

  of of Trump administration incoming [TS]

  Trump administration and the stuff that [TS]

  I do right about that [TS]

  I you know would be criminal not to [TS]

  mention it so what happened i have for [TS]

  anybody either head-in-the-sand Trump [TS]

  and his buddy Peter teal put together [TS]

  summit of the invited I don't they only [TS]

  invited 10 people i think there were [TS]

  like 14 people from Trump's immediate [TS]

  family and his girl Friday transition [TS]

  team and attendant there and 10 liters [TS]

  of of the US tech industry who were in [TS]

  attendance [TS]

  I think it was Tim Cook from apple or a [TS]

  primo seat to away from Trump you know [TS]

  the seating you know if you look at the [TS]

  seating chart it was clearly very very [TS]

  pleased thought out [TS]

  yeah I just thought out definitely yeah [TS]

  i mean you don't you don't just say only [TS]

  a one two three kids sit over here right [TS]

  it's looking at it that into the tables [TS]

  like the you know that the kids table at [TS]

  Thanksgiving right well yeah I mean that [TS]

  did the thing that got me was that the [TS]

  picture of a of tim cook right this is [TS]

  just the look on his face and I I try [TS]

  not to read into pictures too much I [TS]

  mean you have all done you know you know [TS]

  you're watching a video or whatever and [TS]

  you know you pause and it's like the [TS]

  person making that face which is like [TS]

  what the heck you know that because it [TS]

  doesn't fit into the [TS]

  the story is going on with it just [TS]

  making some funny face right but I look [TS]

  at that picture of tim cook and that is [TS]

  the expression i think i would have if i [TS]

  was at that meeting right just like [TS]

  ashen kind of what the hell is going on [TS]

  here [TS]

  somebody you are to watch the HBO show [TS]

  that Larry David Choe curb your [TS]

  enthusiasm because they the show for [TS]

  anybody doesn't want to show usually [TS]

  ends [TS]

  it's a very it the the show is [TS]

  incredibly awkward it's about it's [TS]

  nothing about other than about creating [TS]

  awkward situations and then a typical [TS]

  Arizona and in a horribly awkward [TS]

  situation with a freeze frame and then [TS]

  it's funny music comes up [TS]

  yeah that's all that was missing is that [TS]

  funny music but there's another thing to [TS]

  where I'm always hesitant to especially [TS]

  at coming out of a political election [TS]

  whether it's national or local there's [TS]

  obviously there's it its and it's only [TS]

  gotten worse because i think i think [TS]

  because our politics have gotten so much [TS]

  more partisan and the fact that there [TS]

  are so many more photographs taken [TS]

  because digital cameras if you ever [TS]

  watched these press conferences that it [TS]

  it really almost sounds like it's not a [TS]

  war zone but it almost where where that [TS]

  the pro photographers in the the [TS]

  journalists have these SLR digital SLRs [TS]

  and they just they just hold the shutter [TS]

  down and they just keep right they just [TS]

  keep shooting you know six to eight [TS]

  frames per second every second non-stop [TS]

  because the cardstock know that [TS]

  yeah that that's what I'm saying about [TS]

  you know it's really easy these days to [TS]

  cherry pick an image right to find the [TS]

  one where Tim Cook is making that face [TS]

  because you know you've thought the [TS]

  right names you know and I don't think [TS]

  about the case that right and so on [TS]

  election ads in election ads you are in [TS]

  both sides do it it's this is here's one [TS]

  where it's not really a partisan thing [TS]

  but they tend to find an unflattering [TS]

  photo of the opponent of to put in the [TS]

  ad if it's an attack ad and a lot of [TS]

  times I think it's very obvious that you [TS]

  can tell that it's just one of those [TS]

  like everybody knows it like when you're [TS]

  going through your family photos and you [TS]

  say like you know you know look at that [TS]

  sunset here you guys stand right there [TS]

  i'll take a couple photos and like the [TS]

  middle one [TS]

  you know somebody you know one of the [TS]

  subjects in your family just looks [TS]

  horrible just absolutely like because [TS]

  elastic mid blank right here it's like [TS]

  it here [TS]

  you look like you're smoking bongs all [TS]

  day because your eyes you're halfway [TS]

  shut [TS]

  and it's like right or just more like [TS]

  like this the person was you know they [TS]

  know that you're taking a couple of [TS]

  photos and they're trying to hold their [TS]

  eyes open for the first one and then it [TS]

  just feels like there's something in [TS]

  there so they make like a weird blink to [TS]

  like clear their eyes hopefully before [TS]

  you shoot the next shutter but in fact [TS]

  it's mid shutter and they just look not [TS]

  so I don't think that's Tim Cook in this [TS]

  scenario it looks to me you know like [TS]

  that no like that that's that that would [TS]

  you know that is how I would feel in [TS]

  that situation I don't you know it's [TS]

  like and it's it's you know didn't [TS]

  Thompson made a good thing in his a good [TS]

  point in his newsletter admit that [TS]

  really struck me was that Trump is [TS]

  saying you know how we want to help you [TS]

  all [TS]

  well there's a flip side to that right [TS]

  what happens if he does not want to help [TS]

  you write he sees these already over [TS]

  there [TS]

  what is it last week or maybe earlier [TS]

  this week where he put out that tweeted [TS]

  about canceling a Lockheed order and [TS]

  their stock tanked [TS]

  yep and I do we series he's got some [TS]

  power now and you don't want that power [TS]

  to affect your shareholder value the [TS]

  week before he was complaining about an [TS]

  Air Force One order for our Air Force [TS]

  order for a a new Air Force One you know [TS]

  there aren't they are an Air Force One [TS]

  and you know if you're like good just [TS]

  one of those things that I knew but I i [TS]

  find fascinating i find air force one to [TS]

  be a fascinating things like a history [TS]

  geek and you know just someone who's up [TS]

  that's about so i'm a proud American and [TS]

  I like certain aspects of it and air [TS]

  force ones cool thing but one of the [TS]

  things I've always known is that Air [TS]

  Force One is not an airplane a single [TS]

  airplane it's actually right there's two [TS]

  of them [TS]

  yep its Air Force One is the official [TS]

  designation of the one that's carrying [TS]

  the president so right like if the [TS]

  President of the United States is like [TS]

  sitting in the Oval Office there is no [TS]

  air force one right there are trains [TS]

  that could be our force one but it [TS]

  becomes there [TS]

  force one when the president of the [TS]

  united states is on the plane and then [TS]

  it gets that official designation and [TS]

  that the two that they have right now [TS]

  were a commissioned under the Reagan [TS]

  administration and I believe george HW [TS]

  bush was the first to fly them so these [TS]

  are these planes have been in use for [TS]

  the original George Bush Bill Clinton [TS]

  George W Bush and Barack Obama and they [TS]

  will be the ones that Trump gets the [TS]

  that the new ones that the Air Force's [TS]

  looking to commission would not be ready [TS]

  until either the very very very tail end [TS]

  of an eight-year Trump administration [TS]

  which let's face it whenever you know if [TS]

  we get eight years at Trump we going to [TS]

  meet ya gonna be an earth day and I [TS]

  don't want a lot more is his successor [TS]

  anyway Trump bitched about the cost of [TS]

  these planes and and Boeing's stock tank [TS]

  you know not tagged it didn't recover [TS]

  but he tweets and stocks move that it's [TS]

  a fact I mean like we it in between the [TS]

  joking about it and you know that the [TS]

  partisanship of it i mean there's just [TS]

  no denial that when the president's [TS]

  state comes out and says he's you know [TS]

  like to cancel of the five billion [TS]

  dollar order for Air Force One [TS]

  yeah that's going to have an effect on [TS]

  the company yeah is it that I read the [TS]

  other day that that on Bloomberg now the [TS]

  Bloomberg terminals that-that-that-that [TS]

  the market uses to keep track with Miz [TS]

  as Trump streets on it now they just [TS]

  feed Trump's tweets into the Bloomberg [TS]

  terminals as it's important to know that [TS]

  immediately exactly it moves the economy [TS]

  that's like she sits [TS]

  so now I I let me read for this because [TS]

  i actually wrote to Ben depends on the [TS]

  show all the time and he's a friend and [TS]

  I told him I thought his take was [TS]

  excellent it was I filed it under the [TS]

  eye i wish i had a thought of it but [TS]

  that exactly what you said that that the [TS]

  hey I'm here to help you folks do well [TS]

  that's actually an actual quote from him [TS]

  i'm here to help you folks do well and [TS]

  we're going to be there for you [TS]

  yeah it's it is a violation of economics [TS]

  is bunk reading from Ben's email [TS]

  government on to be sent setting and [TS]

  enforcing the rules of the game not [TS]

  actively helping one of the teams it's a [TS]

  recipe for not just corporate accuracy [TS]

  and the inevitable corruption that comes [TS]

  with it [TS]

  parentheses this is where I know that [TS]

  trumps children attended the meeting and [TS]

  parentheses but the closing off of [TS]

  opportunity to the unknown companies [TS]

  that might challenge those large enough [TS]

  to be quote helped this should be of [TS]

  particular concern to the startup [TS]

  ecosystem and I can't say it any better [TS]

  than that I think it's exactly right [TS]

  that it's that's you know and again you [TS]

  say you know there's there's positives [TS]

  and negatives to every system of [TS]

  government but you know part of the gist [TS]

  of a democratic capitalist nation is [TS]

  that the role of government [TS]

  I i think this is then again there's [TS]

  only this is a partisan viewpoint I [TS]

  think it's just a statement of fact that [TS]

  kids learned in elementary school if the [TS]

  role of the government is doing keep a [TS]

  fair level playing field yeah it's all [TS]

  out there as exactly it's all about [TS]

  fairness and that's the discussion about [TS]

  diversity to it's about fairness right [TS]

  and you know protecting any idea that [TS]

  the role of the president's to protect [TS]

  the 10 biggest corporations and tech is [TS]

  the opposite of it because the whole [TS]

  point is that it's healthy for for [TS]

  example you know like in if this meeting [TS]

  had been held in nineteen eighty 180 [TS]

  would have been one of the would have [TS]

  been d probably the company right yeah [TS]

  you know in fact that they yeah and it [TS]

  goes against competition right you know [TS]

  you look at it [TS]

  Apple maps is getting better because [TS]

  it's competing against google maps and [TS]

  android is getting better because it's [TS]

  competing against the iphone right that [TS]

  that competition and having a [TS]

  competition be fair is what makes it [TS]

  work right if somebody comes along and [TS]

  says you know well hey Tim Cook you know [TS]

  he's gay [TS]

  m-maybe Google's better right little [TS]

  hole what did you're not competing on a [TS]

  fair playing field at that point and I [TS]

  think everybody in tech would have a [TS]

  problem that ever affect hopefully [TS]

  everybody in the US with our problem [TS]

  with that yet that's the road that we're [TS]

  heading down right now most most people [TS]

  in Texas has been noted before this [TS]

  meeting that most of the industry was [TS]

  unfit you know on the side of Hillary [TS]

  Clinton in this election on for several [TS]

  reasons but a lot certainly largely on [TS]

  on immigration and on social issues like [TS]

  young gay rights and and don't like that [TS]

  yeah one of the people though I believe [TS]

  this CEO of oracle her name she's [TS]

  actually in the same picture with with [TS]

  yeah she looks very happy to be there [TS]

  she's very enthusiastic in her remarks [TS]

  before the the meeting and and then [TS]

  after the meeting it was announced that [TS]

  she's joining his transition team and in [TS]

  some form right and she's going to be [TS]

  obviously some people and selling [TS]

  databases but my question is it there's [TS]

  a large number of people and I think it [TS]

  has to be addressed [TS]

  whoo-hoo think that the people like Tim [TS]

  Cook satya nadella from Microsoft larry [TS]

  page from google should not have [TS]

  attended this meeting they should have [TS]

  declined the invitation [TS]

  action ended on the basis that it was [TS]

  just dog-and-pony show and it was just a [TS]

  photo opportunity for Trump and his [TS]

  children and his transition team to have [TS]

  these people parade in front of the [TS]

  media I mean there's a reason why the [TS]

  media was there and that the photographs [TS]

  are taken and it wasn't you know [TS]

  certainly could have been held privately [TS]

  if they wanted to was not it was help [TS]

  publicly certainly not for the benefit [TS]

  of those who are invited it was certain [TS]

  you know only for the benefit of [TS]

  companies transition team [TS]

  I don't think that's disputable right [TS]

  should they have declined the invitation [TS]

  I on the basis of of it being a form of [TS]

  protest against Trump and what he you [TS]

  know what he campaigned on and what he's [TS]

  you know trying to do [TS]

  alright I think that they're playing a [TS]

  longer game here [TS]

  yes it is a PR opportunity in fact that [TS]

  you know these that PR opportunity to [TS]

  take a swipe at Twitter right now but [TS]

  just over the whole crooked Hillary [TS]

  thing and yeah I don't think you wanna [TS]

  it's it's not a matter of a agreeing [TS]

  with him at this point I think it's [TS]

  pretty safe to do [TS]

  oracle CEO is named safra catz by the [TS]

  way I want to get that out there so [TS]

  before the meetings after cats the one [TS]

  who has joined his transition team while [TS]

  remaining at oracle CEO i should add her [TS]

  quote was I plan to tell the [TS]

  president-elect that we are with him and [TS]

  will help in any way we can [TS]

  and my my take on during fireball was [TS]

  that that sounds a lot like I'm ready to [TS]

  spit science it's shining shoes because [TS]

  ready to help in any way we can is an [TS]

  end with him are pretty unequivocal [TS]

  statement of support which i don't think [TS]

  are supported and compare and contrast [TS]

  that and I pointed this out on during [TS]

  fireball I think Tim Cook ed and [TS]

  unsurprisingly so was very very precise [TS]

  in his on-the-record remarks so what [TS]

  they did is they started the meeting by [TS]

  going around the table and introduce [TS]

  themselves and hit Tim Cook all he said [TS]

  was Tim Cook very good to be here [TS]

  not very glad very good to be here and I [TS]

  look [TS]

  very forward to talking to the [TS]

  president-elect about the things that we [TS]

  can do to help you achieve some things [TS]

  you want my end of statement is not [TS]

  raising a no it is not using it is not [TS]

  its raising a stink [TS]

  it's it's all played on the surface i'm [TS]

  sure in the moment as it went around the [TS]

  table and it went on but if you think [TS]

  about those words precisely in [TS]

  particular the difference between were [TS]

  with you and ready to help in any way we [TS]

  can from oracle vs help you achieve some [TS]

  things you want like I said they're [TS]

  playing a longer game here right and [TS]

  they've played they've played games with [TS]

  the federal government before right the [TS]

  last year with the you know the whole [TS]

  iphone FBI thing right there you know [TS]

  they know that this is not just going to [TS]

  end it all with Ali I'm never going to [TS]

  know now that there are the it's [TS]

  inevitable [TS]

  now that they are the biggest we are at [TS]

  least for now the biggest company by [TS]

  market cap and you know and there's only [TS]

  a handful of companies within spitting [TS]

  distance you know alphabet being being I [TS]

  think number two [TS]

  exxonmobil looks like they might have a [TS]

  good eight year there's four years at [TS]

  least [TS]

  but now that they're big now that [TS]

  they're big they're now that they're big [TS]

  though they they're obviously in the [TS]

  crosshairs of a antitrust type stuff [TS]

  which we saw with the ibooks thing which [TS]

  I roll my eyes at because of the whole [TS]

  fact that the ibookstore it's never the [TS]

  dominant seller they were yeah they were [TS]

  at every point along the way way smaller [TS]

  than amazon but I would almost point [TS]

  that as that was amazon it was amazon [TS]

  who played the Justice Department and it [TS]

  was apples like sort of disinterest in [TS]

  on involvement in the big that game that [TS]

  let them be painted in that corner [TS]

  I think that's where they started [TS]

  realizing that Washington is a game [TS]

  right right that's there because it's [TS]

  true it's beyond you know that what it [TS]

  amazon had the Justice Department here [TS]

  and I'm not saying it's corrupt I'm [TS]

  saying no it was a mistake [TS]

  were we look at that situation purely [TS]

  from technical technical point of view [TS]

  right in right there were engineers [TS]

  right we wheats [TS]

  see who's making what money and what you [TS]

  know kind of money they're charging and [TS]

  you know how the system works and and [TS]

  that's not our Washington works at all [TS]

  it's it's more emotions and politics and [TS]

  leverage and that kind of thing so yeah [TS]

  that's in fact that's probably what this [TS]

  this you know they went into this [TS]

  meeting with you know that's like okay [TS]

  how am I gonna survive what's going on [TS]

  here right let's let's let's you know [TS]

  number one that did everybody who [TS]

  attended that meeting know who else is [TS]

  gonna be there [TS]

  I believe so yes yeah you know and it's [TS]

  it's interesting actually says it was [TS]

  such a small small and invitation list [TS]

  yeah i thought it interesting you know [TS]

  that you know of the invites three of [TS]

  them more women in Iran body the the CEO [TS]

  or and Sheryl Sandberg alright alright [TS]

  Zuckerberg did not attend Sandberg up [TS]

  attended as the representative which i [TS]

  think is that I don't even think it was [TS]

  just to see a woman at the table i think [TS]

  that my understanding again I don't [TS]

  follow facebook anywhere near as closely [TS]

  as I do [TS]

  apple or some other companies but i [TS]

  think it's representative of her role [TS]

  there i think i think it's very fair to [TS]

  say that she's she is tues och what Cook [TS]

  was to Steve Jobs yep you know that more [TS]

  than a lot more than a red typical coo [TS]

  more of a partner [TS]

  I've said this many times on the show [TS]

  many many times but i believe it as much [TS]

  now as I ever did that it during [TS]

  especially i would say like from the [TS]

  iphone on especially like but at some [TS]

  point I believe now maybe even before [TS]

  that I you know but at some point cook [TS]

  clearly had jobs is trust and i really [TS]

  do think that if you described Tim [TS]

  Cook's day-to-day activities at Apple to [TS]

  somebody who didn't know the company and [TS]

  you said what position do you think this [TS]

  person has that most people would say [TS]

  well that sounds like he's the CEO that [TS]

  Steve Jobs was really more like a [TS]

  day-to-day head of product and [TS]

  Tim Cook ran the company and I think [TS]

  Sheryl Sandberg has that same role was [TS]

  Zuckerberg can focus is his time [TS]

  entirely on product and she handles yeah [TS]

  this other stuff that needs to be [TS]

  handled when you're as big an [TS]

  influential is as Facebook and the [TS]

  advantage for those people who are [TS]

  charged with the innovation and [TS]

  developing the products that they get to [TS]

  think about things that are important to [TS]

  them and you know there's a lot of stuff [TS]

  that about running a company that that [TS]

  people like that don't want to do right [TS]

  so they're they're essential in that [TS]

  regard right that the right they you [TS]

  know that you know they're the ones that [TS]

  keep the machine running and you know [TS]

  that's probably a more appropriate [TS]

  person to send to a meeting with Trump [TS]

  then you know somebody whose innovative [TS]

  and passionate and potentially going to [TS]

  say something that's damaging to come [TS]

  here is that this so that I i wrote this [TS]

  and I don't like to try it out the what [TS]

  if steve jobs were still around thing [TS]

  too often because i think can be so [TS]

  overused but i do O God that would have [TS]

  been beautiful [TS]

  well when I had a hot-headed I had an [TS]

  interesting discussion with on twitter [TS]

  about it and I you know I think [TS]

  everybody i was it is me and matt trance [TS]

  and dr. wave from pixar couple other [TS]

  people and I think we were all in [TS]

  complete agreement that if steve jobs in [TS]

  the alternate universe where steve jobs [TS]

  you know was still healthy and was still [TS]

  at apple if if he were at that meeting [TS]

  it would have been fascinating at least [TS]

  as soon as the press left the room and [TS]

  then there were reports i will add that [TS]

  there were reports that that two of the [TS]

  attendees cook and mosque got private [TS]

  meetings with Trump afterwards so maybe [TS]

  the fireworks would have happened in [TS]

  that meeting if Steve Jobs had a private [TS]

  meeting with Trump but there is [TS]

  absolutely no way I don't you know damn [TS]

  the torpedoes [TS]

  there is no way Steve Jobs was Cal [TS]

  telling to trump know and I don't think [TS]

  he'll count-out either now I don't know [TS]

  Terrance if I think the difference [TS]

  was that could bite his tongue and Steve [TS]

  Jobs couldn't I think that's one thing [TS]

  about and that's one thing about the end [TS]

  of the passion that's involved with [TS]

  innovation right that's a much harder [TS]

  thing to hold it back Tim Cook you know [TS]

  he's a guy who negotiates contracts and [TS]

  stuff he knows when to shut up but I [TS]

  great there's a good chance and and the [TS]

  doctor wave and rents I think agreed [TS]

  that even in the alternate universe [TS]

  where steve jobs is still an apple Cook [TS]

  was the one who would go to that meeting [TS]

  yesterday with the channel Sandberg [TS]

  exactly yeah no no doubt in my mind that [TS]

  that would happen because you know Steve [TS]

  Jobs is with self-aware enough to know [TS]

  that yes he had that streak and that [TS]

  streak can be used for good it can also [TS]

  be used for evil right and you know [TS]

  that's well and at what it's got watchin [TS]

  you watchin on the part of apple and [TS]

  then on the other hand i also think it [TS]

  would have been a strategy strategic way [TS]

  to not give Trump what he wanted which [TS]

  is that I mean Tim Cook is well no I [TS]

  mean how yeah yeah yeah [TS]

  yes the biggest you know the company is [TS]

  very well known but he's nowhere near as [TS]

  famous as Steve Jobs ya know where you [TS]

  have a day before Kanye West was having [TS]

  a meeting with them right that's it [TS]

  that's the level of person and he wants [TS]

  to be associated with right day if if [TS]

  you paid gallop to you know go around [TS]

  the country and and get a you know [TS]

  10,000 random people and ask them who [TS]

  Tim Cook is your I don't know what the [TS]

  awareness is it certainly higher than [TS]

  most people and most CEOs but if you ask [TS]

  them who steve jobs is it's you know [TS]

  it's practically up at like Walt Disney [TS]

  levels right yeah they could describe [TS]

  what it looks like and yeah assist yeah [TS]

  that's right they're not serving not [TS]

  sending Steve Jobs would have been a way [TS]

  to sort of lesson apples involvement in [TS]

  the dog-and-pony show of it we're a [TS]

  nation doesn't really right yeah they [TS]

  don't really do anything and everything [TS]

  that it's a little bit of a way to give [TS]

  Trump the finger to write you know just [TS]

  no no we're not sending our best person [TS]

  we're sending our second best person [TS]

  Bezos what Bezos was there Jenny you [TS]

  said Jimmy Jimmy Romney from IBM Larry [TS]

  Page Google had two people [TS]

  well alphabet and whatever Larry Page [TS]

  and [TS]

  what's his name smit area of it yeah and [TS]

  Microsoft head to a satya nadella and [TS]

  then Brad whatever-his-name-is their CEO [TS]

  it was weird that Microsoft got google [TS]

  got to an apple only got one and I [TS]

  wonder if that was by choice if Apple [TS]

  you know had no cookies like now we [TS]

  don't need another one [TS]

  yeah I thought that's why i say i was [TS]

  interesting to know if you know how that [TS]

  list of people was chosen [TS]

  alright that's why did they sort of self [TS]

  choose or were they asked specifically [TS]

  like that we want these companies get an [TS]

  invitation and they got to choose who to [TS]

  go over the end of invitations to people [TS]

  probably just to the company's I think [TS]

  it looks like there are fixed number of [TS]

  seats around that table and that table [TS]

  time it dictated how many people are [TS]

  going to be there so you know maybe [TS]

  that's it maybe that's why Jack Dorsey [TS]

  wasn't there [TS]

  they're just didn't know was another [TS]

  seat you know you don't know I suspect [TS]

  not that him the the vindictive angle [TS]

  coming out there's two things though [TS]

  there's a cup [TS]

  there's a couple angles on that one the [TS]

  angle in favor of Dorsey being there [TS]

  would be that Trump has made more use of [TS]

  Twitter far more than he did facebook [TS]

  I mean and it's I mean I don't think [TS]

  it's close to 90 feet you know his [TS]

  campaign has a presence on on facebook [TS]

  but personally he's all Twitter it is [TS]

  his facebook feed is not on Bloomberg [TS]

  his twitter feed is on the right that's [TS]

  it that's the bottom line right but the [TS]

  other thing too is it does seem there's [TS]

  a case to be made I think gabe gabe [TS]

  rivera made it first he's Gabe is the [TS]

  guy who runs the the excellent Technium [TS]

  at a news aggregator that it seems as [TS]

  though the invitation list was sorted in [TS]

  order of market cap that it was just not [TS]

  you know in terms of who got invited or [TS]

  not it's the you know six or seven [TS]

  biggest by market cap tech companies and [TS]

  by that measure twitter isn't even close [TS]

  because their stock is deeply depressed [TS]

  I mean there it's done it and they're [TS]

  not even in the ballpark if there are [TS]

  cap and in their remarks in in Trump's [TS]

  own remarks at the meeting he even [TS]

  mentioned that [TS]

  you know his way of bragging about the [TS]

  meeting was it he said he didn't want to [TS]

  talk about the he wasn't going to [TS]

  mention the hundreds of companies that [TS]

  called asking for a seat at this table [TS]

  and that they were wondering that Peter [TS]

  meeting Peter teal kept saying no [TS]

  they're too small they're too small that [TS]

  that and small meeting market cap i [TS]

  think you know so that was already [TS]

  measured right so I don't buy that [TS]

  measure Twitter had no chance [TS]

  yeah that's so they were measuring buy [TS]

  influence they were measuring by you [TS]

  money what is that smart [TS]

  I don't know anyone that good you know [TS]

  kind of goes back to the bend Thompson's [TS]

  point right and I like the smaller [TS]

  companies are often the ones that didn't [TS]

  even more interesting stuff and the [TS]

  stuff that affects the future [TS]

  yeah and then your eyes the economy [TS]

  forward over well in the government [TS]

  certainly shouldn't play a central role [TS]

  in determining the anyone else the other [TS]

  story that came out was that the twitter [TS]

  did not get invited because of its had a [TS]

  dispute from the summer that Twitter [TS]

  sells these things called branded emoji [TS]

  well they call branded emoji we can I [TS]

  can go on our side rant about the use of [TS]

  emoji and that context in a moment but [TS]

  the gist of it is that a sponsor can buy [TS]

  a hashtag and then when people tweet [TS]

  that hashtag they automatically get a [TS]

  emoji are little sticker an illustration [TS]

  behind it so for example right now if [TS]

  you tweet the hashtag rogue one you get [TS]

  a little death star image after the [TS]

  thing that I wasn't aware of this [TS]

  because i like anybody with any kind of [TS]

  who their taste i use a third-party [TS]

  twitter client on everywhere all just [TS]

  about everywhere and these things are [TS]

  only visible and Twitter zone to twitter [TS]

  apps and this stupid ass ugly Twitter [TS]

  website so i wasn't aware of this but [TS]

  apparently over the summer the Trump [TS]

  campaign wanted to buy one for hashtag [TS]

  crooked Hillary and oh who even knows [TS]

  what the icon would have been I think [TS]

  they said they wanted to be a bag of [TS]

  money flying away or something like that [TS]

  I don't know [TS]

  and Twitter a declined to accept the [TS]

  sponsorship apparently Jack maybe Jack [TS]

  Dorsey himself put the pics on it and [TS]

  that the Trump campaign hasn't forgotten [TS]

  it [TS]

  hey I don't think that's it i'm not sure [TS]

  that it i'm sure it didn't help because [TS]

  i think they are vindictive and petty [TS]

  people but I don't really I i think that [TS]

  the market cap ankle is a bigger one [TS]

  I think yeah if it now that you mention [TS]

  that it's probably a Peter teal had more [TS]

  influence on was at that table then then [TS]

  from yourself it's it really sounded it [TS]

  sounded like Trump stoner marks that it [TS]

  was really largely just you know there [TS]

  was a list of finalists and Trump random [TS]

  by T land till said yes yes no no no yes [TS]

  yes [TS]

  dark or vice versa right maybe tail at [TS]

  the way after more like it sounded more [TS]

  like it was till he was given the s's [TS]

  know that I mean obviously if trumpet [TS]

  said i want i want Twitter it would [TS]

  happen but yea Aztec people we have a [TS]

  different view on all this you know it's [TS]

  like it's like this this Russian hacking [TS]

  thing right [TS]

  it's like you know that to me is totally [TS]

  you know it's really first hint of that [TS]

  was like oh yeah because anybody has run [TS]

  a server the scene you know IP addresses [TS]

  from you know the Eastern Bloc taking [TS]

  our servers you know looking for you [TS]

  know WP login pages PHP my man in [TS]

  artistic just like they're just they're [TS]

  looking for ways into what you're doing [TS]

  and and you know that that that you see [TS]

  the effectively presidential election is [TS]

  just you know a good meeting you again [TS]

  back to the fairness argument you know [TS]

  how in the hell is that fair [TS]

  did you see that a among all of the just [TS]

  like series of unfortunate events that [TS]

  all just happened to break the wrong way [TS]

  for the Clinton campaign and yeah one [TS]

  thing after another and that just all [TS]

  broke the wrong way but one of them was [TS]

  that when [TS]

  John Podesta got the phishing email and [TS]

  it was forwarded on to somebody like [TS]

  what's going on with this and the person [TS]

  on the staff who you know evaluated it [TS]

  wanted to write back this [TS]

  this email is illegitimate John should [TS]

  change his password immediately but [TS]

  instead wrote inadvertently this email [TS]

  is legitimate John should changes are [TS]

  almost immediately and so apparently he [TS]

  because it said that he used the link in [TS]

  the email to change his password [TS]

  alright and that this person who wrote [TS]

  made this mistake and wrote legitimate [TS]

  where they wanted to write illegitimate [TS]

  right [TS]

  ah yeah it's a couple letters on the [TS]

  keyboard that we've all right made the [TS]

  mistake with right is you know [TS]

  heartbroken and as apparently is [TS]

  apparently crushed and I lang and you [TS]

  know that the flip side of it okay yeah [TS]

  they they hacked the Democrats well you [TS]

  do you think they hacked the Republicans [TS]

  to there's it widely it's that's [TS]

  actually you know they haven't leaked [TS]

  but it's a taxi i mean this isn't [TS]

  speculation a text ya at that depth me [TS]

  is leverage and blackmail and all the [TS]

  other nasty shit so you know this is you [TS]

  know that that this is an issue it [TS]

  clearly a nonpartisan issue right after [TS]

  the the chills [TS]

  yes it should be and if you try to say [TS]

  that this is all the Democrats are just [TS]

  you know sour grapes like that's [TS]

  bullshit [TS]

  now this is this affects everybody right [TS]

  this is you know again it goes back to [TS]

  the fairness the others that our [TS]

  government should be a level playing [TS]

  field yes there are two teams right and [TS]

  they compete against each other right if [TS]

  the 50 fucking playing field is level we [TS]

  got a problem and I don't want to be too [TS]

  histrionic about it but it does [TS]

  fundamentally come down to whether the [TS]

  parties see themselves as two opposing [TS]

  parties within one nation or they view [TS]

  each other as their enemies and at the [TS]

  Democrats clearly still see the [TS]

  Republicans as their opposition and [TS]

  Republicans see the Democrats [TS]

  as their enemy and yet and that's again [TS]

  I don't mean to be histrionic it sounds [TS]

  if you if you happen to be a [TS]

  conservative bent you think that that's [TS]

  just me being a liberal you can see it [TS]

  in the polls where a poll came out today [TS]

  of what's your net positive or negative [TS]

  on the following people and they asked [TS]

  Reports survey of the Republicans in the [TS]

  United States it was like barack obama [TS]

  was a negative 64 net- Hillary Clinton [TS]

  was a net negative 77 and the latter [TS]

  mere Putin was negative 10 right so the [TS]

  latin beauty is is 54 points more [TS]

  popular among Republicans than Barack [TS]

  Obama i mean it's it's no joke [TS]

  you're kidding or exaggeration that the [TS]

  Republican Party largely sees the [TS]

  Democrats is more of their enemy then [TS]

  they do the Russian which is not [TS]

  especially for people of our age where [TS]

  the Americans will have who were the [TS]

  hardline realists ok so i'm just going [TS]

  to i was just going to say and I ronald [TS]

  reagan is rolling over in his grave [TS]

  well as a kid and a teenager when I [TS]

  first you know became politically aware [TS]

  and I was a news junkie I I viewed [TS]

  myself more as a republican a democrat [TS]

  because I thought that the Republicans [TS]

  were the party of a on Adina to put it [TS]

  succinctly the party of the cold hard [TS]

  truth and that the Democrats were more [TS]

  of saw what they wished for a party [TS]

  mhm you know and that the the main issue [TS]

  at the time wasn't something like [TS]

  climate change or a few other things [TS]

  where it comes out but climate change is [TS]

  a perfect example today where one party [TS]

  is looking at facts and the other party [TS]

  is just believing what they want to be [TS]

  true but at the time the preeminent [TS]

  issue was the Cold War because it was [TS]

  you know hey if this turns out poorly [TS]

  every world network squared yeah that [TS]

  looks like they're all that is it like [TS]

  game with no winners [TS]

  yeah and it seemed to me like the [TS]

  Republicans where the why I think [TS]

  history has shown it to be true that the [TS]

  Republicans were the ones who look [TS]

  at it with it you know old cold hard [TS]

  facts half right so it's ridiculous to [TS]

  me that they've now become the party [TS]

  that's like russia's good people [TS]

  well maybe they are good people but [TS]

  Russian government leadership God good [TS]

  people [TS]

  yeah it's and it's kind of like you know [TS]

  that that they have to you know the two [TS]

  it's a win-at-all-costs kind of [TS]

  situation for them right and and the [TS]

  others visited that the problem I have [TS]

  is that those costs are going up in ways [TS]

  that hurt our society and hurt our [TS]

  government now I mean well I wanted i'ma [TS]

  time at odds with many people in my [TS]

  family now because of this i'm sure [TS]

  that's not a lot of people and I socks [TS]

  do but you know they had to vote for the [TS]

  Republican person because you know that [TS]

  and in it and the fact that that is you [TS]

  know that the people that are [TS]

  celebrating it at the Trump when include [TS]

  the Ku Klux Klan and in evangelical [TS]

  Christians in the same group [TS]

  I mean what is wrong there alright well [TS]

  you get start to get the feeling that [TS]

  maybe the evangelical Christian based me [TS]

  maybe Christianity isn't that you just [TS]

  started to think maybe it's not their [TS]

  top priority our faith that people are [TS]

  inherently good were screwed [TS]

  well let me use that as a segue to talk [TS]

  about Harry's razors this is alec this [TS]

  shows coming out tonight [TS]

  december 16 this is a gift that you can [TS]

  get you've got time if you're listening [TS]

  to this show tonight on the sixteenth [TS]

  you can even still get ground shipping [TS]

  after tonight you're gonna have to pay [TS]

  for air shipping but you can get this as [TS]

  a gift for the holidays [TS]

  still you got act hope you're listening [TS]

  to the show while it's hot off the press [TS]

  you know pressed onto the 45 record or [TS]

  ever used to listen to the show but if [TS]

  you act quick you can do it you can go [TS]

  to Harry's calm and get an order in [TS]

  now why would this make a good gift [TS]

  well one of the reasons is it's a great [TS]

  product i've said this before they make [TS]

  nice handles really really great nice [TS]

  blades they own their own razor blade [TS]

  factory this is how they get the prices [TS]

  down this is how they keep the quality [TS]

  of their not just like buying [TS]

  white-label razor blades and putting the [TS]

  Harry's name on them they own a razor [TS]

  blade factory over in Germany that they [TS]

  make their own there's no middlemen no [TS]

  distributors no no markup on the way to [TS]

  22 retail it's just they make them they [TS]

  package them they sell them to you so [TS]

  it's a great product and they've got [TS]

  good shaving cream and and stuff like [TS]

  that they've got what i have here a [TS]

  limited edition set if you haven't heard [TS]

  of them before you can get this set [TS]

  comes with the razor handle of your [TS]

  choice [TS]

  shaving cream replacement blades and a [TS]

  nice little travel cover they have [TS]

  something called The Winston set that [TS]

  includes an engravable chrome handle if [TS]

  you want to add a personalized touch the [TS]

  other reason these things make a nice [TS]

  gift is that the packaging is so nice so [TS]

  you can wrap this up and when people [TS]

  open it it's not like you sound like [TS]

  you're giving him one of these blister [TS]

  pack razor blades that you get a [TS]

  drugstore where it looks you know this [TS]

  looks like you've bought them like a [TS]

  nice thing like you even if you don't [TS]

  even know what's inside it's just like [TS]

  this cool box it's it's not like a [TS]

  blister pack where you got to go get a [TS]

  razor blade just to open the damn thing [TS]

  up an icebox with a nice lid I've said [TS]

  before it's the type of packaging it's [TS]

  so good that I feel bad throwing it out [TS]

  and I have to defeat my sort of natural [TS]

  inclination to be a pack rat and keep it [TS]

  like why in the world would I keep an [TS]

  empty box that had razor blades in it [TS]

  stupid but it's so nice i always paint [TS]

  me as I toss it into the the bathroom [TS]

  trashcan a great great product so if [TS]

  you're listening tonight if you can [TS]

  still get ground shipping otherwise you [TS]

  know you gotta you gotta pay for air [TS]

  shipping if you want to get this as a [TS]

  gift but you can go to Harry's dot-com [TS]

  and you can use the code talk show just [TS]

  plain talk show know the and you'll get [TS]

  five bucks off you're at if you use that [TS]

  code at checkout talk show know the at [TS] go there check it out if [TS]

  you've got anybody on your list needs a [TS]

  last-minute gift you can already [TS]

  happened and get that in [TS]

  my thanks to them great product [TS]

  alright I'm done talking about politics [TS]

  let's have fun yeah this is like is [TS]

  Trump's office storm stuff is no fun [TS]

  well it's no fun but we gotta deal with [TS]

  it but I gotta deal with you can put [TS]

  your head in the sand and that's the [TS]

  reason why I think that's the reason I [TS]

  think I just a red put a bow on this [TS]

  topic that's the reason why i think it [TS]

  was right the tim cook and jeff bezos [TS]

  and satya nadella and whoever else went [TS]

  to the meeting you can put your head in [TS]

  the sand you can't just put your fingers [TS]

  in your ears and go lalala [TS]

  you know I don't want this guy to be the [TS]

  president you gotta look at it you gotta [TS]

  stare right in the eyes you know [TS]

  pretending that it didn't happen exactly [TS]

  stay angry and don't let it get [TS]

  normalized because this is not normal [TS]

  no matter you know what anybody says [TS]

  it's all you know he'll it will all play [TS]

  out well it's like no this is not going [TS]

  to play out well I just hope not I hope [TS]

  we're around in four years to have [TS]

  another election because you know you [TS]

  used you see the shit happening with you [TS]

  know China right now it's like oh jesus [TS]

  this is not where we want to go [TS]

  it's like yeah so for my parents [TS]

  generation that happened in Cuba right [TS]

  then and then people freaked out well [TS]

  hey guess what it's this generations [TS]

  chance to have that little freakout [TS]

  moment yet let's not talk about the [TS]

  politics anymore i've got one thing [TS]

  that's even less fun it's even less fun [TS]

  than Trump and I have to talk about it [TS]

  no fun at all it's super mario run came [TS]

  out and my god it's got an in-app [TS]

  purchase oh my god so everyone came out [TS]

  yesterday [TS]

  here's how it works i think it was a [TS]

  mystery i don't think it was announced [TS]

  how exactly it i think i think we knew [TS]

  was that it was going to be a free [TS]

  download with a couple levels to play [TS]

  for free and then you have to buy it so [TS]

  way it works is free download you get [TS]

  three levels to play after that you need [TS]

  to buy it and it's ten bucks but the way [TS]

  that they're doing the in-app purchases [TS]

  such that the 10 boxes per device i [TS]

  think i don't think i think if i had an [TS]

  ipad i think I'd stuff that I've heard a [TS]

  complaint from my colleagues shawnee [TS]

  birds said that he had to buy for [TS]

  himself and his three kids got it he's [TS]

  got three boys that want to play it [TS]

  and you know it's a forty-dollar game [TS]

  for him now from Nintendo's perspective [TS]

  that's the way it's always worked right [TS]

  if you if you have a 3ds and your kids [TS]

  have a 3ds and you want to play this [TS]

  game you could you at the same time you [TS]

  could you don't have to buy your own [TS]

  version of it now it when it was [TS]

  cartridges you could like share the [TS]

  cartridge but then only one of you can [TS]

  play it at a time and there's no way to [TS]

  do that with in-app purchase you can [TS]

  have an in-app purchase that says your [TS]

  whole family can use this app but only [TS]

  one of you can use it at a time just [TS]

  doesn't work that way so from the [TS]

  nintendos perspective this isn't that [TS]

  unusual and they don't sell ten dollar [TS]

  games for the 3ds this would be like a [TS]

  forty or fifty dollar game for the 3ds [TS]

  but on the other hand before anybody [TS]

  even says it and writes to me don't [TS]

  write to me i understand that even with [TS]

  the purchase this entire game is [TS]

  probably less expensive than a typical [TS]

  3ds game that it's smaller whatever I [TS]

  can't get 10 boxes so little [TS]

  honestly I do get it and that family [TS]

  sharing we use it we do we got a lot of [TS]

  stuff on the family sharing here in this [TS]

  particular case I I can't blame it i [TS]

  want intended to make money on this [TS]

  I do yeah I i I'd love to see a lot of [TS]

  game developers make money but yeah no [TS]

  argument from me that ten dollars is a [TS]

  per-device is a premium price for an [TS]

  iphone game but honestly I've played [TS]

  this game for a day now it's a premium [TS]

  game it is a premium game so yeah and I [TS]

  can and the the book problem right now [TS]

  though is that there are a lot of people [TS]

  who have been indoctrinated into the and [TS]

  all i can earn coins to to get what I [TS]

  want right it shouldn't cost me anything [TS]

  and they're the ones that are [TS]

  complaining about you know just this [TS]

  game right at the I mean we all love it [TS]

  is as developers we would all love it [TS]

  people just paid for the thing right [TS]

  that's what we all want just just spend [TS]

  your money if you like it buy it and in [TS]

  instead we're jumping through all these [TS]

  hoops you know doing you know things [TS]

  that make people look like they're not [TS]

  spending money because we call them [TS]

  coins instead of dollars and [TS]

  you know it's it's all you know that the [TS]

  deception and and let's just forget [TS]

  about that and kudos to to the handover [TS]

  just say hey it's going to cost you ten [TS]

  dollars deal with it [TS]

  yeah and the three levels that they let [TS]

  you play before you are asked for a [TS]

  nickel [TS]

  I think are indicative of the the [TS]

  gameplay and they even show you on a [TS]

  there's like when you complete a level [TS]

  they show you that there's six worlds of [TS]

  four levels each and so you get through [TS]

  the first three levels of the first [TS]

  world before you have to pay to continue [TS]

  you both have it you both have a very [TS]

  fair idea of what the game is like to [TS]

  play and you also have a very fair idea [TS]

  of how much is unlocked right when you [TS]

  pay the 10 bucks you do that to me too [TS]

  very fair deal and I think it you know [TS]

  again I you know and if you've got you [TS]

  know somebody's out there surely has [TS]

  three or four kids you know and it's [TS]

  like hey it's you know you tell me it's [TS]

  sixty dollar purchase for my kids and my [TS]

  wife and I to play this I understand [TS]

  that you know that that's pretty lights [TS]

  a lot of money for iphone game but you [TS]

  know I it i'd much rather have nintendo [TS]

  doing this and having it as a fair [TS]

  upfront price than to see Nintendo's to [TS]

  come to the you know keep putting two [TS]

  dollars in to buy a bag of coins to keep [TS]

  going you know where to alright get past [TS]

  this log jam you know this level is for [TS]

  all intent intent and purposes [TS]

  unbeatable unless you've got a thousand [TS]

  coins and you can only really have a [TS]

  thousand coins if you pay us three bucks [TS]

  right where go watch a bunch ads or [TS]

  whatever the hell these other games make [TS]

  you do it's you know it's not like that [TS]

  and I think it's you know and it to me [TS]

  that somebody I i know i'm not a [TS]

  die-hard gamer and probably the opposite [TS]

  actually probably spend a lot less time [TS]

  playing video games than the average [TS]

  person my age and probably for someone [TS]

  who's interested in technology and [TS]

  computers way I'm probably way at the [TS]

  bottom in terms of how much time I spent [TS]

  playing games i get the impression [TS]

  you're probably the same as me i went to [TS]

  my childhood before nintendo became a [TS]

  thing [TS]

  i I don't I don't get mario or any of [TS]

  the you know the [TS]

  that whole eighties gaming thing because [TS]

  the nominating I was you know 20 years [TS]

  old and had become an adult life so yeah [TS]

  it a different story for you to all that [TS]

  not only would a friend of mine having [TS]

  sorry but you know it's just the pong [TS]

  and all the other kinda crappy games and [TS]

  and you know at the same time that that [TS]

  was happening I was also discovering [TS]

  computers so it's like I could write my [TS]

  own computer games why the hell am I [TS]

  sitting in front of the TV e fiddling [TS]

  with this little dial that's like calm [TS]

  and I got I got a basic interpreter this [TS]

  is way better [TS]

  right i understand the feeling exactly [TS]

  yeah i could be making something and [TS]

  that's this date and I'm glad it [TS]

  happened that way it made you know made [TS]

  me who I am [TS]

  yeah I have an on/off I've never been a [TS]

  huge Nintendo fan I never like I didn't [TS]

  like the NES and I went in my college [TS]

  years there was the at this is not the [TS]

  n64 super nintendo super nintendo was [TS]

  the one of the early nineties early and [TS]

  mid nineties i had a Sega Genesis which [TS]

  was I thought the superior system at [TS]

  least for the type of games i wanted to [TS]

  play like John Madden football and that [TS]

  the NHL hockey game and Sega's version [TS]

  of mario was Sonic the Hedgehog em right [TS]

  here's the 22 d scroller i did have an [TS]

  n64 which I liked a lot later on [TS]

  probably the last console I really [TS]

  played a lot although i guess i had an [TS]

  original xbox too i played that [TS]

  sometimes how old were you when your own [TS]

  as a kid [TS]

  well when what how old were you when [TS]

  you're playing these games Sega Genesis [TS]

  was my college years so that archaic 91 [TS]

  296 right roughly that was a 32-bit [TS]

  system i was at 16 years yeah you said [TS]

  that its you're sending a dorm room with [TS]

  the its up thing to party with right [TS]

  yeah exactly it was a dorm was a big [TS]

  room thing and it's partly because the [TS]

  the EA sports games I don't even know [TS]

  that they had them for Nintendo's Super [TS]

  Nintendo and if they did they were [TS]

  inferior like that the Sega Genesis was [TS]

  better at [TS]

  sports games and that was what we all [TS]

  played each other and that was what we [TS]

  played non-stop and 64 was good though [TS]

  there was this gold my game [TS]

  anybody who had it knows exactly what [TS]

  I'm talking about and anybody that was [TS]

  at 3d shooter and you'd play you can [TS]

  play against your roommate and it it was [TS]

  split screen so you each got like you [TS]

  split the screen it because it was a 423 [TS]

  screen it was African if it was [TS]

  horizontal and you've got like a real [TS]

  wide angle thing or if it was [TS]

  side-to-side i think it was actually [TS]

  forget true story to story I had a [TS]

  roommate my first year after college I [TS]

  had a roommate a Don and we played we [TS]

  had an n64 and that was when the [TS]

  PlayStation first came out the original [TS]

  playstation and what we used to do was [TS]

  rent video games you could go to be how [TS]

  to get a disk so you'd go to blockbuster [TS]

  and you could rent a game for four days [TS]

  for I don't know five bucks four bucks [TS]

  way cheaper than buying $60 games right [TS]

  we didn't have the money to buy a bunch [TS]

  of 64 games the renting thing was [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  so we have an n64 you basically it's a [TS]

  binge on the game and you know you if [TS]

  you're getting that the the content for [TS]

  that so go to blog we'd go to [TS]

  blockbuster and you look and like the [TS]

  PlayStation section had all of these [TS]

  awesome games like at the time realistic [TS]

  car racing games and shooters and all [TS]

  these awesome games and then a nintendo [TS]

  section had like seven titles and most [TS]

  of them for like four little kids but [TS]

  then goldeneye came out and goldeneye [TS]

  fixed everything in fact that [TS]

  effectively are n64 turned into a [TS]

  dedicated golden-eyed box it was a good [TS]

  one player game it had this a very long [TS]

  campaign where you played James Bond [TS]

  going through the gold movie scenario [TS]

  really good first part you know 1 player [TS]

  mode and then the two-player thing was [TS]

  just unbelievably fun unbelievably fun [TS]

  and eventually I got just every was one [TS]

  of the only games i ever got pretty good [TS]

  at and I i got ever so slightly better [TS]

  than Don was like this is after maybe a [TS]

  whole year of playing [TS]

  and I was always a fraction of a section [TS]

  a second quicker than him and it got to [TS]

  the point where he couldn't be here we [TS]

  used to be like 50 50 and it was I [TS]

  somehow gained like i leveled up a [TS]

  little bit and he couldn't beat me at [TS]

  one time me through this controller out [TS]

  the window and we lived on the third [TS]

  floor and divine help control our but it [TS]

  was the most satisfying victory ever [TS]

  right and look at be more satisfying and [TS]

  making your friend throw his controller [TS]

  out the window [TS]

  yeah but that point you're pretty much [TS]

  done with the game right because the guy [TS]

  that you can never win again and you [TS]

  know it's like okay my play you know but [TS]

  anyway then my other experience with [TS]

  nintendo's we had the wii the one the [TS]

  first you know not the we don't ya gonna [TS]

  get the week was great [TS]

  not that the one where he did have that [TS]

  big basically the physical games are [TS]

  awesome [TS]

  right right it's just got people moving [TS]

  around i thought that was right and that [TS]

  that was how John learn to play video [TS]

  games we had that when he was I don't [TS]

  know three or four or something like [TS]

  that and that's a little like that's [TS]

  another one where you can throw the [TS]

  controller but not necessarily because [TS]

  um it right we have these we have this [TS]

  weird Jonas I laugh about it is Jonas is [TS]

  very much into video games now he's [TS]

  almost 13 is that when he first started [TS]

  playing there's a great great series [TS]

  games these Lego games where you play as [TS]

  a lego character from like movies and [TS]

  you go through and you know like the one [TS]

  that we play that was the first one was [TS]

  the lego star wars and you dis game and [TS]

  it had all six of the original Star Wars [TS]

  movies meaning the first three from you [TS]

  know the eighties then the prequels and [TS]

  II each one was broken up into six like [TS]

  adventure so you had 36 adventures to go [TS]

  through from all of the Star Wars movies [TS]

  and you just play as two characters at [TS]

  the same time on screen and you go [TS]

  through and smash things up and take the [TS]

  bricks and rebuild them into other [TS]

  things and it was very very good just [TS]

  very fun very very kid friendly but very [TS]

  fun for me as an adult to play too but [TS]

  the funny thing was that when we first [TS]

  are playing out of Genesis three or four [TS]

  probably around four was that and it's [TS]

  sort of i can I so what's a isomorphic [TS]

  pretty perspective [TS]

  isometric right yeah isometric [TS]

  perspective the game and it Jonas just [TS]

  had tremendous trouble like if you had [TS]

  to walk on it you had to get your [TS]

  terrible all accounts catwalk diagonally [TS]

  right I not even like a tightrope but [TS]

  you know but like a a three-character [TS]

  wide catwalk that was at a 45-degree [TS]

  angle he would just keep falling off and [TS]

  it's one of these games read you don't [TS]

  we did you probably didn't have the [TS]

  spatial capabilities in his brain right [TS]

  that's just the right being able to say [TS]

  to project that into right it is mine [TS]

  yeah and if I transferred into a [TS]

  movement with his thumb right right and [TS]

  it's one of these games are one of a [TS]

  part of that part of what made it so [TS]

  much fun to play with a little kid is [TS]

  that you you never you don't run out of [TS]

  lives and have to start the level over [TS]

  every time you die you just lose some of [TS]

  the coins you picked up and it just [TS]

  shoot you back to you know 15 you know [TS]

  five feet away from where you died you [TS]

  just keep responding and Udall you lose [TS]

  our these coins and when you finish the [TS]

  level with the most coins it's an [TS]

  accomplishment so you know you can you [TS]

  know finishing without buying which is [TS]

  gives you more coins so there's an [TS]

  advantage to not dying but you never [TS]

  actually like have to start the level of [TS]

  her but there would be a certain things [TS]

  where he just basically could navigate [TS]

  and Italy I think I'm a pretty patient [TS]

  father but eventually it's like just [TS]

  give me that give me that haha [TS]

  dad's gonna help you out here right and [TS]

  it wasn't like getting in past like a [TS]

  boss you know villain it was just [TS]

  getting him through like a very narrow [TS]

  hard to navigate little thing and it's [TS]

  just very it's very comical now when i [TS]

  try to play video games with him because [TS]

  he's actually the opposite yeah I was [TS]

  gonna say kick these kicking your ass [TS]

  now right cause including on he's got [TS]

  nice i could reflect your reflexes ya s [TS]

  what was it was a lego game like lego [TS]

  batman or something like that and I was [TS]

  like I'll play that with you and I [TS]

  started playing and it was clear that i [TS]

  was holding up that right anything you [TS]

  know he loves you and everything we talk [TS]

  about your feelings but he's like dad [TS]

  just just well I was like remember when [TS]

  you'd be the one holding me back and [TS]

  he'd be if he laughs he had a good and [TS]

  yeah but it was very clear that i was [TS]

  the one holding him back [TS]

  anyway I wish nintendo the best i think [TS]

  they're going to do very well with that [TS]

  complaints about the prices side it does [TS]

  seem like they're being very aggressive [TS]

  on the trying to keep the whatever [TS]

  countermeasures they've taken against [TS]

  piracy it seems like they've done quite [TS]

  a bit [TS]

  one of them being and here's the one [TS]

  that's going to affect honest people the [TS]

  most is the game does not play if you [TS]

  don't have a network connection i tested [TS]

  it is very true [TS]

  like if you turn on airplane mode and [TS]

  try to start the game it says look you [TS]

  know try to move this trying to move [TS]

  somewhere where you have a better [TS]

  network connection [TS]

  oh that's not gonna that's not going to [TS]

  play out well I mean it soon as somebody [TS]

  you know it's like on launch day you're [TS]

  not going to notice that but over time [TS]

  you know you're going to be one even [TS]

  played in that in the subway on an [TS]

  airplane airplane right yeah well and [TS]

  it's funny people have even pointed out [TS]

  that the announcement miyamoto even said [TS]

  because it's totally playable one-handed [TS]

  that it's great to play in the subway [TS]

  now maybe and I know maybe he's thinking [TS]

  of I don't know I've never been to Tokyo [TS]

  but maybe tokyo i wouldn't be surprised [TS]

  if it is one of those cities with us [TS]

  yes you have are you be good cell [TS]

  service [TS]

  yeah I noticed the last time up last [TS]

  trip to WTC that the tercel service and [TS]

  barknow you know from the airport to [TS]

  downtown you pretty much have a network [TS]

  connection all the time [TS]

  alright but when this witness news came [TS]

  out that the game doesn't work without a [TS]

  network connection a bunch of readers [TS]

  wrote to me and just said well my kid [TS]

  you know has a ipod touch or you know [TS]

  that the the ipod touch that an awful [TS]

  lot of kids have is a two or three-year [TS]

  old iphone that doesn't have a sim card [TS]

  you know just a hand-me-down here's my [TS]

  you know this was dad's iphone from two [TS]

  years ago [TS]

  just take the self just take the sim [TS]

  card out and you've got a you know a [TS]

  hand-me-down ipod touch and entices yeah [TS]

  and a car trips that's another it you [TS]

  know yeah that's it that's exactly it do [TS]

  you want it in then ok ok where you have [TS]

  to set up a Wi-Fi hotspot just the kids [TS]

  complain intend oh right right [TS]

  it's like thanks right let's drain mom [TS]

  and dad's batteries so we can play [TS]

  Nintendo [TS]

  and I saw something about the fact that [TS]

  the game has a lot of it doesn't seem to [TS]

  run on a lot of jail Brooks it seems I [TS]

  which he only makes me think that [TS]

  nintendo is specifically looking for [TS]

  signs of common jailbreaks and is [TS]

  refusing to run how they cannot do that [TS]

  that's actually hard thing to do in the [TS]

  sandbox use the Apple might've looked [TS]

  the other way I one of these things i [TS]

  don't know i don't want to know you know [TS]

  not knowing how it works or anything but [TS]

  month that would be my first reaction [TS]

  it's like maybe there's my other [TS]

  question or eight other questions [TS]

  it's it is iOS exclusive right now it is [TS]

  apparently coming to android eventually [TS]

  how long do you think until it comes out [TS]

  on Android and be a google will probably [TS]

  want to use it like Apple did is the way [TS]

  to to promote new software release or [TS]

  something like that i could see it [TS]

  happening at the next io or something [TS]

  you know [TS]

  just forget I wonder if they played well [TS]

  at the iphone 7 launched it will play [TS]

  well at some google launched so i think [TS]

  that that would be your answer [TS]

  so maybe like six months I don't know [TS]

  what is it was in six months I don't [TS]

  know [TS]

  yeah who knows I mean it's that the [TS]

  half-life for games these days pretty a [TS]

  pretty insane it's it's like a Pokemon [TS]

  go right middle of summer it was just [TS]

  everywhere attacking you know we had a [TS]

  back down to the beach where do i go [TS]

  every day it's like there's just one [TS]

  tree that everybody standing under [TS]

  because that shade and pokemon terms & [TS]

  Company kind of funny is like everybody [TS]

  walked my idea of the pokemon spotting [TS]

  on and you know you talk to people there [TS]

  yeah I'm late for them you know the gym [TS]

  or whatever it is and oh my god I saw a [TS]

  thing on something on Twitter I wish I [TS]

  had had it but it was the gist of it was [TS]

  somebody was like oh my god I can't [TS]

  believe they had to put the sign up [TS]

  somebody was in like a museum [TS]

  oh yeah or something and it was like a [TS]

  part where they were showing like [TS]

  something really grave and serious it [TS]

  was like relics from a like a [TS]

  concentration camp or something like [TS]

  that you know something really really [TS]

  grave and serious you know like here's a [TS]

  bunch of artifacts from some kind of [TS]

  internment camp early i don't think was [TS]

  the Holocaust but something like that [TS]

  we're like a bunch of people were you [TS]

  know political no prisoners and and [TS]

  people died and went on a long time and [TS]

  there's a sign up that said please no [TS]

  pokemon go right like because that you [TS]

  can only imagine like a sign like that [TS]

  doesn't go up unless people were doing [TS]

  it [TS]

  yeah I know like some ya ever hear that [TS]

  they're reacting to something [TS]

  yeah right I you know I thought they [TS]

  don't want it in it in the middle of [TS]

  summer I was but one of the thoughts I [TS]

  had was like that you what happens when [TS]

  it gets cold at all these people going [TS]

  out hunting for pokemon what they're [TS]

  going to do when it's you know raining [TS]

  or snowing or you know middle of a [TS]

  hurricane or whatever and it's like em [TS]

  you know so that they watched that in a [TS]

  really good time and you know maybe they [TS]

  have [TS]

  have [TS]

  the expectation that it is going to have [TS]

  six great months and then who knows [TS]

  I think we're in the who knows right now [TS]

  and I think you know maybe you know [TS]

  Mario on iOS is going to be the same way [TS]

  I suspect or not it's there's a lot to [TS]

  be said for that brand same is true with [TS]

  pokemon there you know this huge Brandt [TS]

  a lot of the nostalgia and that brand [TS]

  I mean that's just you know the fact [TS]

  that you were you know talking about you [TS]

  know all your past consoles and games [TS]

  you played I mean that's it doesn't it's [TS]

  nostalgia is a powerful thing and yeah [TS]

  that's it in it it's it's interesting [TS]

  too that that that Mario is is is [TS]

  nostalgic that's getting passed on right [TS]

  there there's a there's a generation of [TS]

  kids now that we're going to grow up and [TS]

  their first encounter with Mario is [TS]

  going to be you know on their their [TS]

  iphone their ipad there [TS]

  I know ipod touch you know that's that's [TS]

  their beginning and working over here [TS]

  who knows [TS]

  yeah the comparison i think is you know [TS]

  and it's it's obvious one that a [TS]

  thousand people have made before is to [TS]

  mickey mouse and the Donald Duck and you [TS]

  know the whole gang of characters that [TS]

  is you know so old that the disney [TS]

  literally has to keep petitioning the US [TS]

  federal government to keep extending the [TS]

  copyright expiration date because [TS]

  they're sold that they would have [TS]

  already passed into the public domain by [TS]

  now and yet are completely relevant and [TS]

  popular and and a good source of revenue [TS]

  right now get me that whatever you want [TS]

  to be popular for a reason right [TS]

  well in one reason one reason why that [TS]

  they remain popular is that even under [TS]

  Walt Disney I think it started with Walt [TS]

  was don't be afraid to move them into [TS]

  new media just keep keep going up with [TS]

  technology don't don't don't say will [TS]

  make he's a movie star so he's never [TS]

  going to be on TV now we're going to [TS]

  have a TV show and and you know get [TS]

  everybody to watch it is one of my [TS]

  favorite stories and it's one of the [TS]

  best comparisons between Walt Disney and [TS]

  steve jobs that I've ever seen was that [TS]

  he was so willing to let go of the past [TS]

  and always hungry for the future which [TS]

  was the it goes against human nature i [TS]

  mean it even ties back to our discussion [TS]

  on trumpet those tech leaders and Trump [TS]

  seeing his job as president as [TS]

  protecting the current top companies as [TS]

  opposed to just keeping it fair and [TS]

  letting the revolution happened you know [TS]

  Walt was you know in the fifties when TV [TS]

  started becoming thing the movie studios [TS]

  were totally disdainful of television [TS]

  and saw it as a lesser medium I mean we [TS]

  saw that until it really up until they [TS]

  just a handful of years ago [TS]

  we're being a an actor in the movies [TS]

  with c is seen as way more serious than [TS]

  being an actor and TV it really took [TS]

  until the last handful of years and [TS]

  shows like The Sopranos and madmen and [TS]

  West world where people & Game of [TS]

  Thrones where people see TV is being as [TS]

  good or even better than movies [TS]

  yeah Walt Disney unlike all the other [TS]

  hollywood studios the other Holly do it [TS]

  the way that Hollywood attack the TV was [TS]

  by my and part of it is cool i love [TS]

  cinema scope and seventy millimeter [TS]

  prince is that that's when TV that's [TS]

  when movies switched from the 43 aspect [TS]

  ratio 1699 and bigger the bigger [TS]

  CinemaScope 2.1 a wide screen and they [TS]

  built bigger screens that had curves and [TS]

  they start shooting in 70 millimeter it [TS]

  was ok you want to have a little dinky [TS]

  rinky-dink you know 19-inch [TS]

  black-and-white display with a lot of [TS]

  static on it while we're gonna you know [TS]

  start shooting in color and we're going [TS]

  to make it bigger and that's a fine [TS]

  response but it certainly didn't stop [TS]

  the march of progress with TV walt [TS]

  disney on the other hand was like will [TS]

  keep making movies but hell yeah I want [TS]

  to I want to be I want mickey mouse on [TS]

  that TV hit I've always loved that quote [TS]

  of his where you know he he made movies [TS]

  so they could make more movies right I [TS]

  thought the know he made her so he can [TS]

  exactly made money on movies so that he [TS]

  could make more movies and that's TV was [TS]

  just another way for him to make money [TS]

  to make more cool things right right and [TS]

  that's why don't you know we don't like [TS]

  dentists in intent i hope they do really [TS]

  well on an iOS because if they do [TS]

  they're going to do more and then pray [TS]

  don't make we don't make movies to make [TS]

  money we make money to make movies there [TS]

  you go [TS]

  any minute you know ya roll your eyes [TS]

  30-minute right [TS]

  I don't find that in is a recent [TS]

  announcement that Nintendo assigned a [TS]

  big big long-term deal with universal to [TS]

  get a like nintendo world into universal [TS]

  theme parks around the world sir makes [TS]

  that which i am i'm looking forward to [TS]

  tremendously I don't you probably never [TS]

  been there but the universal in Florida [TS]

  they have a big i don't know i got a [TS]

  billion-dollar deal with the harry [TS]

  potter franchise right I've seen [TS]

  pictures that I've never been there but [TS]

  yeah it's and it looks great i mean yeah [TS]

  we love nostalgia we were mad men fan a [TS]

  wife wants to show mad mad mailman ya [TS]

  ever watch it [TS]

  yeah yeah well they're right of course [TS]

  got Don Draper and that's that's [TS]

  probably where I got that from nostalgia [TS]

  its delicate but potent and he told me [TS]

  that in Greek nostalgia literally means [TS]

  the pain from an old wound it's a twinge [TS]

  in your heart for more more powerful [TS]

  than memory alone [TS]

  that's the statue yeah that's good [TS]

  writing [TS]

  yeah that's the one with the kodak slide [TS]

  yeah it's really thats that it's it was [TS]

  like the first season but it's the best [TS]

  the best asset and you know you look at [TS]

  that coat acting right that's that was [TS]

  revolutionary at the time right and and [TS]

  we is you know kids growing up that was [TS]

  like you know we didn't have I photos [TS]

  and sliding through you know we had [TS]

  let's put up screen and stare at dad [TS]

  slides well and another example of a [TS]

  company a company that lost its way by [TS]

  protecting what it had rather than its [TS]

  future they were making all their money [TS]

  from film and they were it's it's [TS]

  absolutely astounding when you look at [TS]

  how many of the UH the foundations of [TS]

  digital photography started at Kodak and [TS]

  the people at you know in charge of [TS]

  kodak padded the engineers who had all [TS]

  these digital camera technology is ready [TS]

  to go you know and patted him on her [TS]

  head and said nice work boys but we [TS]

  can't sell film [TS]

  yeah well pulling up or not selling any [TS]

  film [TS]

  digital camera so you know keep that in [TS]

  the labs but it was actually work out so [TS]

  well [TS]

  exactly is that actually Polaroid came [TS]

  up with the first digital camera like oh [TS]

  why didn't you go down through with that [TS]

  so to write Polaroid code acted so much [TS]

  work on it and never took it to market [TS]

  because it would have disrupted their [TS]

  own film business [TS]

  well bottom line xerox did the same [TS]

  thing right at that there's a there's a [TS]

  line of companies that that we remember [TS]

  fondly because they didn't do what Apple [TS]

  does which is you know kill your babies [TS]

  right [TS]

  preaching to the choir here but it's in [TS]

  2006 the single most important product [TS]

  that Apple computer made was their line [TS]

  of ipods and it was very clear to [TS]

  anybody who looked at the iphone with [TS]

  open eyes that well once you have one of [TS]

  these you'll never buy an ipod again [TS]

  yeah except maybe the cheap no screen [TS]

  one that you don't care about wearing in [TS]

  the pool right now yeah and actually [TS]

  make the company that right yeah the at [TS]

  the same time I don't think we [TS]

  appreciated how important that camera [TS]

  was gonna be no we definitely definitely [TS]

  not because I mean the first camera was [TS]

  like it's yeah it's better than that [TS]

  that that feature phone I used to have [TS]

  but yeah but barely take care of my [TS]

  ideas are barely hearing my DSLR around [TS]

  you know yeah I barely better write it [TS]

  was it was more convenient though that [TS]

  was the thing that it was like ah right [TS]

  and you know [TS]

  instagram and all this other stuff took [TS]

  off because I said it's always there [TS]

  I just think that the the time nobody [TS]

  maybe even apple just didn't foresee how [TS]

  quickly cameras that could fit in the [TS]

  space that was available theoretically [TS]

  just you know however much have a much [TS]

  space you want to vote into a iphone [TS]

  sighs device to the camera how good the [TS]

  image quality could be out of that [TS]

  camera i just don't think anybody really [TS]

  foresaw with the next five years were [TS]

  going to be the first one in particular [TS]

  I've said this before on the show like [TS]

  every every time it comes up I'm like I [TS]

  don't think it even shot video and then [TS]

  I'm like no wait that's not possible and [TS]

  then I looked it up and it's like yet [TS]

  didn't [TS]

  she didn't even shoot shitty video shot [TS]

  you know your whatsoever and now you [TS]

  know it doesn't even fit in the case [TS]

  anymore and that's okay right not that [TS]

  we've got the camera bulbs because it's [TS]

  like it that it it's more important to [TS]

  have that good camera that i have that [TS]

  cleanliness is ok I accept it and it's [TS]

  it's a compromise right it's definitely [TS]

  compromised but yes we would all love it [TS]

  if that back was completely smooth but [TS]

  we also love the fact that it's not i [TS]

  have that's the one thing I I don't know [TS]

  what to think about with the pixel have [TS]

  a google pixel and so Google pixels the [TS]

  googles just googles way around that [TS]

  wasn't too happy they have no bump for [TS]

  the camera on the back but the entire [TS]

  device is slightly wedge-shaped so down [TS]

  at the bottom it's then and that's that [TS]

  that's the thinnest they like to talk [TS]

  about and up by the camera it's thick [TS]

  and there's no one point where there's a [TS]

  bold and it's not super it at a glance [TS]

  it's you can't even tell but in your [TS]

  hand it's obvious and it is sort of [TS]

  top-heavy it i have mixed feelings about [TS]

  that I do think just I don't want to go [TS]

  too deep on the camera bolt but I do but [TS]

  now that the iphone 7 has been in my [TS]

  hands for what three months october [TS]

  november december yeah about three [TS]

  months i do what two little things that [TS]

  I really really like about it and I know [TS]

  people keep saying that it's the same [TS]

  industrial design but it's only at a [TS]

  glance the two little things that i [TS]

  really like number one I like that this [TS]

  camera bump is more of an honest camera [TS]

  bump right yeah it's absolutely a [TS]

  hundred percent with you there it's like [TS]

  it it's it it looks like a bump right [TS]

  and it and it is a bump and they're [TS]

  still running those ads that show the [TS]

  hero shot of the shiny jet black iphone [TS]

  7 plus where the this entire central [TS]

  focus of the hero shot is the big [TS]

  capsule sized camera bump on the back [TS]

  like you know and it's perfectly lit and [TS]

  glossy to highlight it and I just keep [TS]

  thinking that it's the complete opposite [TS]

  of the original iphone 6 ads where the [TS]

  articles were [TS]

  apples product shots are hiding the bump [TS]

  you know where they show that you had [TS]

  you had to hunt for it on the apples [TS]

  right in order to see it yeah it was [TS]

  just that they just pretending it wasn't [TS]

  there [TS]

  the other thing i really like and I [TS]

  can't explain why I like it so much is [TS]

  that the volume buttons are no longer in [TS]

  a channel on the side [TS]

  they're just two buttons that stick out [TS]

  of the side there used to be a little [TS]

  field yeah well but there are no i think [TS]

  i think is very easy to locate for me at [TS]

  least that there's like there's like a [TS]

  little channel dug in and the gap [TS]

  between the two volume buttons was [TS]

  therefore more I don't know it just felt [TS]

  cheap to me on the iphone 6 and 6s in a [TS]

  way that that that that really like the [TS]

  volume buttons on this better but anyway [TS]

  that's neither here nor there [TS]

  quick quick question did you get the jet [TS]

  black yes i did you love it I love it [TS]

  and I have I have I mean i-i've I love [TS]

  being able to carry a phone without a [TS]

  case again it's just like it's sticky in [TS]

  my hand and that's all i wanted i don't [TS]

  you know yeah I got the micro operations [TS]

  like i holed up here to the light it's [TS]

  fine I can see him but I don't spend my [TS]

  time looking at the back of the phone i [TS]

  spend my time holding the back of the [TS]

  phone [TS]

  yeah it's just so clearly better there [TS]

  yeah and i think that was awesome [TS]

  after three months of daily use i can [TS]

  tell i can project what it will look [TS]

  like after two years I mean I will only [TS]

  use it for one year but I mean it but [TS]

  somebody who [TS]

  normal smart person would do and use the [TS]

  phone for at least two years it's gonna [TS]

  look fine [TS]

  it's not gonna look perfect but it's [TS]

  fine and at a glance it still looks nice [TS]

  black and shiny but it's the feel of it [TS]

  the feel is so much greater [TS]

  the other thing i can happily you know [TS]

  going back to the weather that was my [TS]

  question in September it was I can [TS]

  September when I first felt that I was [TS]

  like this definitely feels better to my [TS]

  touch and amber was all wore month for [TS]

  us [TS]

  sorry my hands are you know had that [TS]

  like you know it's warm hand now that [TS]

  it's freezing hold i can say it still [TS]

  feels better [TS]

  even with very very cold hands it it's [TS]

  not slippery total win i recommend it [TS]

  wholeheartedly [TS]

  yeah it's not mean it like I said I just [TS]

  so nice to be carrying a phone without [TS]

  case anymore and that that was the only [TS]

  reason I put it on my love my five and [TS]

  my six [TS]

  step is no longer simply said felt [TS]

  slippery and I really felt slippery and [TS]

  I got big hands right it's like an i [TS]

  think you know it shit that'll be really [TS]

  easy [TS]

  it's like it's for you holding a phone [TS]

  is like a normal person holding like a [TS]

  matchbook it's easily just slips it you [TS]

  know we have the the ipad mini is the [TS]

  right size [TS]

  let me take a break here at like our [TS]

  next sponsor is longtime friend of the [TS]

  show what a great company Squarespace [TS]

  start building your website today at [TS] enter the offer code [TS]

  talk show once again just talk show at [TS]

  checkout and you'll get ten percent off [TS]

  what you mean this they do websites yeah [TS]

  it's great you just go there and 18 do [TS]

  any type of website you want it is [TS]

  absolutely amazing it really is more of [TS]

  a software platform then like a hosting [TS]

  service [TS]

  it'sit's they do the hosting so you can [TS]

  go there and register your domain and [TS]

  they they're the ones who take care of [TS]

  hosting the server but it's so much more [TS]

  than it's not it it's not work [TS]

  you shouldn't think of Squarespace as a [TS]

  web hosting provider that has wysiwyg [TS]

  stuff it really is a platform for [TS]

  building websites sites look [TS]

  professionally designed regardless of [TS]

  your skill level no coding required you [TS]

  can pick through a whole bunch of [TS]

  templates for like a blog you can host a [TS]

  podcast you could host a store you can [TS]

  host a portfolio if you're like an [TS]

  artist or a designer intuitive too easy [TS]

  to use an easy-to-use tools but if you [TS]

  want to get in there and modify the code [TS]

  you can do that too [TS]

  there's like a would even call an escape [TS]

  hatch but you can get out of the WYSIWYG [TS]

  mode and inject your own code if you [TS]

  want if you're if that's something you [TS]

  can do you can definitely do it [TS]

  ah and if you sign up for a year you get [TS]

  a free domain name is this is the [TS]

  easiest and best way to get a website [TS]

  off the ground one of the all other ways [TS]

  that Squarespace is a great service for [TS]

  the sort of people who listen to this [TS]

  show is if you have somebody else in [TS]

  your life [TS]

  like let's say like a school maybe your [TS]

  parents are involved with the school or [TS]

  a church or at some other community [TS]

  group and they need a website and you're [TS]

  sort of the technically minded person is [TS]

  involved with the group or whatever [TS]

  Squarespace is a great way to get [TS]

  somebody like that to get them a site at [TS]

  a low price on a monthly basis and have [TS]

  it in a way where you once you've got [TS]

  this for them and you can hand it over [TS]

  you don't ever get your phone never [TS]

  rings with we need to update this we [TS]

  need to change this it can all just [TS]

  happen by the people who are involved it [TS]

  you can just wash your hands of it and [TS]

  they'll thank you so much because [TS]

  they've got this website that they love [TS]

  to really really great thing to keep in [TS]

  your mind for anybody else any other [TS]

  organization life that needs a website [TS]

  so you can get a free trial and get your [TS]

  site off the ground so it looks like [TS]

  it's and when you decide [TS]

  to sign up and start paying just [TS]

  remember that offer code talk show and [TS]

  you get ten percent off your first [TS]

  purchase Squarespace have a question for [TS]

  you about can ask me anything Craig [TS]

  could they make during fireball a [TS]

  responsive web design [TS]

  well I could fireball responsive website [TS]

  i do think all the squarespace is [TS]

  default templates are ya response that I [TS]

  bring that up because that's an [TS]

  important thing these days and I know I [TS]

  know and I'm that's a cheap shot but now [TS]

  it's not it's overdue it's overdue by [TS]

  years and it's it's it the fact that [TS]

  it's over dubai years is that only [TS]

  contributes to the inertia of of not [TS]

  updating it part of its your fault [TS]

  really as much as anybody [TS]

  oh yeah Peters back in 2007 I when all [TS]

  right yeah yeah yeah yeah you gave me [TS]

  the meta tag that made daring fireball i [TS]

  have had to update that since because [TS]

  the way those meta tags have worked for [TS]

  the viewport size like that the curse of [TS]

  during fireballs existing design is that [TS]

  it's one double tap away from being [TS]

  right [TS]

  pretty good yeah the end right in large [TS]

  part add [TS]

  i would say at least eighty five percent [TS]

  maybe only a pirate and eighty-five [TS]

  percent of what it would look like if it [TS]

  were responsive just by double-tapping [TS]

  the column yeah I that the I know the [TS]

  thing that bugs me the most is when I [TS]

  tap on the quoted part and then that the [TS]

  text around it right falls out off the [TS]

  edges and that's why I so what ya you [TS]

  your your clothes and I'd yeah I do [TS]

  remember that that may detach your fault [TS]

  right if daring fireball had looked [TS]

  completely unreadable want to give [TS]

  everybody my email address that he can [TS]

  pitch to me now I well I but that's the [TS]

  thing is that it's it's a forum non [TS]

  responsive site it's about as good as it [TS]

  can get [TS]

  you know so I don't you know people [TS]

  complain and people and when it becomes [TS]

  responsive in it will i'm sure people [TS]

  will be thank you this is great [TS]

  although you know but who knows i'll [TS]

  probably get just as many complaints [TS]

  because the fonts will change at the [TS]

  same time but it'll happen but it's it's [TS]

  the fact that it's in my opinion pretty [TS]

  darn good as is is makes it easy to say [TS]

  well this is it's never quite rises up [TS]

  to the here's how I should spend the [TS]

  next two weeks you know I gotta gotta [TS]

  question for is somebody who used to [TS]

  have a website a dark background with [TS]

  light text arm and somebody who got [TS]

  older [TS]

  are you having trouble reading the site [TS]

  these days with the light text on a dark [TS]

  background now I still find that the [TS]

  color scheme wondering fireball is from [TS]

  my eyes at least is is more readable [TS]

  than the opposite [TS]

  yeah that's because it's not super high [TS]

  contractors activate not yeah yeah it [TS]

  that I think that's the thing i mean [TS]

  with the icon factor used to be like [TS]

  black black with white and you know [TS]

  orange hyperlinks and it was when we [TS]

  retired that site [TS]

  it was like thank God because you know [TS]

  that it's the contrast was killing me [TS]

  and it's like I'd i was in my forties [TS]

  and it's like my started to deteriorate [TS]

  and like what we do here [TS]

  yes at the effect i see a lot of design [TS]

  that by designers who are in their [TS]

  twenties or [TS]

  early thirties and have great eyesight [TS]

  and make decisions based upon that and [TS]

  don't realize that you know a large [TS]

  portion of their audiences not got there [TS]

  good eyesight the curse of it is that i [TS]

  still i love my my taste in graphic [TS]

  design runs towards a very small print [TS]

  and on not even really online online [TS]

  it's always been frustrating for me [TS]

  because I couldn't make it small enough [TS]

  like I that's one of the things i missed [TS]

  from print design is I love putting [TS]

  truly tiny type into designs [TS]

  inappropriate like little in jokes or [TS]

  you know [TS]

  footnotes and stuff like that but you [TS]

  know at this point I you know had a very [TS]

  young age I've got the presbyopia wear [TS]

  it it's really really hard for me to [TS]

  read it but you've also got to display [TS]

  preference 2008 right how many people [TS]

  actually scroll down to the bottom and [TS]

  see display perfect out of there that [TS]

  very few so anybody who doesn't know if [TS]

  you do think that the type on during [TS]

  fire balls too small if you go to during [TS]

  fireball dotnet / press you don't don't [TS]

  even hunt for the link but it's at the [TS]

  bottom of the pages display preferences [TS]

  and actually think that sits down to one [TS]

  preference [TS]

  there used to be more yeah it's like the [TS]

  font size save can I tell you a story I [TS]

  out there used to be a thing in here for [TS]

  this is totally off the off topic but [TS]

  it's interesting to me and maybe people [TS]

  who I haven't wanted to write about it [TS]

  but if I talk about it maybe i can get [TS]

  this fixed I don't know there used to be [TS]

  a preference in here where you could set [TS]

  your amazon country and I had a script [TS]

  so that whenever i linked to an amazon [TS]

  product it would based on that [TS]

  preference setting put a link in with my [TS]

  amazon affiliate code for that country i [TS]

  think there were only three I think the [TS]

  only I didn't bother going all the way [TS]

  around the world but I took like the top [TS]

  three countries for daring fireball [TS]

  readers which are the US Canada and the [TS]

  UK very few people ever did it for the [TS]

  UK but at one point early on as when [TS]

  daring fireball went when I went [TS]

  full-time with it the Amazon revenue was [TS]

  it was [TS]

  it one of those like a multi it's good [TS]

  it wasn't anybody and that's right it [TS]

  was never ever anywhere close to [TS]

  something I depended on but it was you [TS]

  know a little bit was a little bit here [TS]

  a little bit there a little bit there [TS]

  and you know it contributed to its not [TS]

  its not paying your rent but it'll pay [TS]

  for a couple of good dinners every month [TS]

  yeah right and the importance of that [TS]

  revenue as a percentage of during finals [TS]

  over revenue slipped every year and i [TS]

  also started feeling in recent years [TS]

  very recent years that it was maybe not [TS]

  a great idea for me to put amazon links [TS]

  in there because amazon has become more [TS]

  of a company that are right about [TS]

  editorially like I don't do conflict of [TS]

  a track i doing yeah right [TS]

  it's just snow not a big way you know [TS]

  but in a little way you know like maybe [TS]

  it's just a little better if if I don't [TS]

  and I i also thought this way when I [TS]

  link at it so for years now I've just [TS]

  link to amazon without my code [TS]

  usually every once in awhile i think i [TS]

  would help with it but I whenever I put [TS]

  it in i always feel like i should say [TS]

  and at sometimes I have said that's a [TS]

  promotional you know put in parentheses [TS]

  that's a promotional link and i'll get a [TS]

  few percent of whatever it is that you [TS]

  buy if you click it but i haven't I i [TS]

  just have just gotten away from it and [TS]

  my amazon affiliate revenue used to be [TS]

  maybe you know like a thousand dollars a [TS]

  month and sometimes maybe around [TS]

  Christmas like it would be like you know [TS]

  like I think I think the most ever was [TS]

  maybe like three or four thousand [TS]

  dollars in a month for december because [TS]

  i would put like a hey here's a couple [TS]

  of top-selling holiday items and if you [TS]

  click any of these links you'll build [TS]

  this is maybe like 10 years ago eight [TS]

  nine ten years ago anyway long story [TS]

  short about two months ago I got a note [TS]

  from amazon an email that said that I [TS]

  violated their claws by telling people [TS]

  to click on a link [TS]

  oh and and they've terminated my account [TS]

  it was the and i searched there were no [TS]

  other way I never got a warning i didn't [TS]

  ignore I mean it gets this is very [TS]

  common for me i have so many unread [TS]

  emails it was one shot and done [TS]

  I'm out of the Amazon affiliate program [TS]

  yep they've done they want to avoid [TS]

  click baiting right it's like well so [TS]

  butt out but when do I thought when the [TS]

  hell did I ever do that and i found one [TS]

  article that was back in like 2004 maybe [TS]

  when i first started using amazon [TS]

  affiliate and that what i did there was [TS]

  technically against and I guess against [TS]

  the what they're saying I did but it was [TS]

  a 2004 article and not one that's like [TS]

  an evergreen very popular article that [TS]

  that people keep looking Lincoln I'm [TS]

  sure that somehow they ran some [TS]

  automated tool that uncovered that [TS]

  article but it was 12 years old or [TS]

  somebody didn't like something he said [TS]

  and they went looking for something to [TS]

  maybe but I don't think so yeah doesn't [TS]

  strike me I never know then yeah you [TS]

  never know but it's it's gonna take them [TS]

  also lead to an eye on it right it's [TS]

  also device it's great you know that you [TS]

  don't you know you got your sponsors and [TS]

  that pays for your writing and that's [TS]

  awesome right [TS]

  you're supposed to show you they could [TS]

  have looked and seen that and i would [TS]

  say for the last year or so I've had [TS]

  maybe like a hundred two hundred dollars [TS]

  a month and revenue from amazon [TS]

  affiliate so it's cutting off a very [TS]

  small portion of it but I thought that [TS]

  the what did you join a didn't cut off [TS]

  everything they only cut off a portion [TS]

  know they cut off every day did my at [TS]

  you know you can get tagged no longer [TS]

  works ok ok that makes sense [TS]

  the tail is completely out yes it's the [TS]

  equivalent of one you know like having [TS]

  like the Apple equivalent of you know [TS]

  like what they did to the dash developer [TS]

  you know you're out [TS]

  yeah you're done with a warning and it [TS]

  and and they even get any email even [TS]

  said there's no you know there is no [TS]

  there is no recourse you know that [TS]

  there's nowhere you know there is [TS]

  nothing like if you would like to you [TS]

  know I know he'll notice about this [TS]

  yeah right you're out and then it ended [TS]

  with like have a nice day I started hope [TS]

  you have sponsors thank you [TS]

  right so if there's anybody at amazon [TS]

  who's listening to the show you think [TS]

  that's kinda fishy you know write to me [TS]

  at during fireball and [TS]

  I would love to have a communication but [TS]

  not so much that I even care I want to [TS]

  put it back on but i'd love to know more [TS]

  about what happened with this because [TS]

  it's to me very curious and you know it [TS]

  seems like these things get publicized a [TS]

  lot when Apple does it to people and [TS]

  I've never seen anybody complain about [TS]

  this with amazon before but there are [TS]

  other sites that are completely and [TS]

  utterly dependent upon their amazon [TS]

  affiliate revenue I mean it's pretty [TS]

  much the secret to like the wire cutter [TS]

  and and their business model [TS]

  yeah-yeah-yeah-yeah Kottke is another [TS]

  case where you know you [TS]

  yeah that's a the gift recommendations [TS]

  yeah however one of those is going to [TS]

  come up with the the obvious his old [TS]

  oscillate domain just like you did you [TS]

  see that it's like okay goodnight Jason [TS]

  making some money they're awesome [TS]

  I don't know I thought that was kind of [TS]

  odd you see this thing moving on you see [TS]

  this story about the uber self-driving [TS]

  car that ran a temperance is kinda [TS]

  that's pretty funny i will put a link in [TS]

  the show notes one thing that I thought [TS]

  was wow that's scary to the video was [TS]

  shot by cabs dashboard camp and it [TS]

  really did show a Volvo uber [TS]

  self-driving Volvo with the whole big [TS]

  it's very obvious because i had the the [TS]

  self-driving rigging gets on top yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah a real big fingers on top and [TS]

  it just sails right through a red light [TS]

  like three standard red it's pretty [TS]

  close to a pedestrian to right you can [TS]

  see the yeah and it's like you know okay [TS]

  it's 23 feet away but you know hey you [TS]

  know we we've all been crossing street [TS]

  and city and have a close call and thank [TS]

  ya the other that could happen me other [TS]

  negative it ended badly right and the [TS]

  other thing that struck me in terms of [TS]

  that could have been me is that's right [TS]

  at the part of san francisco where we [TS]

  always go like right about you [TS]

  exactly right in front of museum i think [TS]

  it was right right right in front of the [TS]

  moment which is right around the corner [TS]

  from Moscow knee and is therefore like [TS]

  anyways of us who just here we could've [TS]

  been drinking the last fix that right [TS]

  it's part of that whole South of Market [TS]

  union square area where people who go [TS]

  for Moscow any related events you know [TS]

  you just tend to become familiar with it [TS]

  was wrong right there like it yeah i'm [TS]

  not familiar with most of San Francisco [TS]

  but it's the party [TS]

  san francisco I'm intimately from there [TS]

  yeah but you know holy crap [TS]

  although if you're drinking at the w or [TS]

  the st. Regis one of those places you [TS]

  probably not having that much to drink [TS]

  because the drinks are so expensive but [TS]

  yeah yeah here's the thing that struck [TS]

  me that i'll put a link into the show [TS]

  notes with this Bloomberg story but [TS]

  Cooper PR / spokesman matt wing said in [TS]

  a statement now it's off to them for at [TS]

  least putting their spokesman's name in [TS]

  the statement unlike Apple who almost [TS]

  never puts the spokespersons name and [TS]

  just attributes to an apple spokesperson [TS]

  but anyway this is the statement this [TS]

  incident was due to human error [TS]

  this is why we believe so much in making [TS]

  the road safer by building self-driving [TS]

  boobers this vehicle was not part of the [TS]

  pilot and was not carrying customers the [TS]

  driver involved has been suspended while [TS]

  we continue to investigate and you think [TS]

  oh so it wasn't you know like the driver [TS]

  ran a red light but i think no I think [TS]

  this is the worst type of public [TS]

  relations statement possible where I [TS]

  think this was very carefully calibrated [TS]

  word-by-word where you read it and you [TS]

  think oh it's so it was a human error [TS]

  it was a human driver who ran the red [TS]

  light whereas if you think about it if [TS]

  if it was the self-driving car that ran [TS]

  the red light [TS]

  why don't know Ryder yeah it's a this is [TS]

  what I think happened i think this car [TS]

  was in self driving mode i think they [TS]

  were lucky and there was I think they're [TS]

  not lying i think there was no passenger [TS]

  at the moment because otherwise that [TS]

  would be just a blatant lie because it [TS]

  said quote was not carrying customers so [TS]

  i think it was empty but i think the [TS]

  self-driving car went right through and [TS]

  when they say it was human error what [TS]

  they mean is that the hit the employee [TS]

  behind the wheel did wasn't paying [TS]

  attention because it was in self driving [TS]

  mode and didn't manually apply the brake [TS]

  when it was clear that the car was going [TS]

  to sell through the red light [TS]

  alright that's what I think happened i [TS]

  think it was a self-driving error the [TS]

  self-driving car went right through the [TS]

  red light there was a pedestrian right [TS]

  in front of it luckily you know seem to [TS]

  steer the car coming and you know it's [TS]

  weighted and they're saying it's human [TS]

  error because the human behind the wheel [TS]

  didn't manually apply the brake [TS]

  yep that would be I think would be an [TS]

  excruciating Lee hard job [TS]

  I really do because if you just say you [TS]

  had to spend six hours and a [TS]

  self-driving car that was ninety-nine [TS]

  percent for it [TS]

  yeah and around to hit the absolutely it [TS]

  is taking you know those those those [TS]

  videos that show the the Tesla's in [TS]

  their self drive mode i get so anxious [TS]

  with those and I can't take my hand or [TS]

  my eyes off of it the the drivers hands [TS]

  the other desert clearly not touching [TS]

  the steering wheel [TS]

  it's like oh my god what's gonna happen [TS]

  next right like it would be it's easy to [TS]

  drive a car for six hours and not run a [TS]

  red light or hit anybody because you're [TS]

  driving but to not be driving and have [TS]

  everything go fine maybe for like five [TS]

  days maybe you've done it five days in a [TS]

  row and nothing more on this happen but [TS]

  to still be at a moment's notice to hit [TS]

  the brakes [TS]

  yeah i think it requires a level of [TS]

  concentration that i know i personally [TS]

  do not have now I also yeah you're [TS]

  probably you're probably also monitoring [TS]

  other things about the system right [TS]

  looking at you know dials and switches [TS]

  right you know it's like okay you could [TS]

  put me behind the wheel of a [TS]

  self-driving car for an hour and I would [TS]

  be I would be completely paying [TS]

  attention because I would be it would be [TS]

  like holy shit this cars driving itself [TS]

  I terrified i'm ready to go right I'd [TS]

  have my hands you know my fingers [TS]

  twitching ready to take the wheel [TS]

  my hand my foot on the brake you know [TS]

  ready to go because for like the first [TS]

  hour so i'm going to be blown away and [TS]

  amazed and kinda scared after like you [TS]

  know 20 hours 30 hours it becomes normal [TS]

  right [TS]

  it is very hard to be paying that level [TS]

  of attention to something that [TS]

  ninety-nine point nine percent of the [TS]

  time you don't need to be paying [TS]

  attention to [TS]

  well it's interesting to me that that [TS]

  when you connect this piece of news with [TS]

  some piece of news the from one of the [TS]

  last week before about the the actual [TS]

  cost of an over trip is like 40 or 60 [TS]

  percent more than they actually charge [TS]

  you [TS]

  yeah you connect those dots it's like [TS]

  uber you know anybody who runs a [TS]

  business and those that eat the cost of [TS]

  your employees is by far the biggest [TS]

  cost [TS]

  yeah it's just that's where all the [TS]

  money goes [TS]

  so you know them saying this is why we [TS]

  believe so much in making the road safer [TS]

  by building self-driving overs that's [TS]

  kind of bullshit right they believe in [TS]

  building self driving over because it's [TS]

  going to make their business profitable [TS]

  right you can you can you can that [TS]

  always cost 40 or 60 percent too much [TS]

  well you know you don't have to pay a [TS]

  driver sitting behind the wheel and also [TS]

  the Holy economic system situation [TS]

  changes and you're making shitloads of [TS]

  money because you know you have a [TS]

  one-time cost for that computer that [TS]

  drives the car you know your call your [TS]

  front cost of the cup computer and the [TS]

  car i think there is a hey let's save [TS]

  lives and switch to self-driving cars [TS]

  that is true there are wait there are [TS]

  millions of people who are killed every [TS]

  year by automobile accidents and i truly [TS]

  and honestly believe that we will look [TS]

  back on that as n and n are societies [TS]

  and my personal acceptance of it i own a [TS]

  car I Drive as barbarous yeah like now [TS]

  it's definitely sooner rather than later [TS]

  it'll happen really soon and maybe 10 [TS]

  years from now maybe 15 maybe 20 at the [TS]

  most but I think we'll look back on it [TS]

  and and and I think it'll be I think [TS]

  people who who continue to insist on [TS]

  driving around cars will start to be [TS]

  looked at as people who you know smoke [TS]

  around babies i really do because I do [TS]

  think that the I think the technology [TS]

  its clearest not here yet but it's [TS]

  clearly going to be here where a system [TS]

  where all the cars are automated will [TS]

  and they just weren't together you have [TS]

  a network banner and and the safety [TS]

  improvements will be dramatic absolutely [TS]

  dramatic but I think you're exactly [TS]

  right that boobers interested students [TS]

  but yeah very much primarily about the [TS]

  wages they have to pay to a driver and [TS]

  everything and bigger issues our society [TS]

  is not prepared for this change right [TS]

  when you think about okay all of our [TS]

  transportation infrastructure is going [TS]

  to become automated I mean compare that [TS]

  to our entire manufacturing [TS]

  infrastructure becoming automated you [TS]

  know robots are well it in a [TS]

  and production lines are putting people [TS]

  out of out-of-work those people that are [TS]

  out of work become disenfranchised those [TS]

  people that are disenfranchised do weird [TS]

  shit at the time when it is time to vote [TS]

  it ties back in ties back into trumpism [TS]

  where Trump story is that a bunch of [TS]

  good jobs all went to China and that we [TS]

  can bring this bad butt jobs back to [TS]

  China and it's true that obviously a lot [TS]

  of stuff is made in china or other [TS]

  countries in Asia but I I there's a [TS]

  whole bunch of stuff you read I mean [TS]

  that's true it's but it's a more [TS]

  complicated story in that and that I've [TS]

  i think it's i think it's arguable [TS]

  didn't at least some people have made [TS]

  the argue based on fact that Moore [TS]

  manufacturing jobs in the US have been [TS]

  lost to automation then too [TS]

  yeah yeah now and an identical twin me [TS]

  right and vocational training you know [TS]

  keep teaching people how to work in that [TS]

  new environment is just not there [TS]

  that's my saying so you know society [TS]

  isn't ready for it you know is it and it [TS]

  all these truck drivers that you know [TS]

  that they call our shit cross-community [TS]

  uh what Megan there's an awful lot of [TS]

  all awful lot of people let's face it [TS]

  mostly men but not you know that [TS]

  certainly a lot more women than it used [TS]

  to be who are truck drivers but truck [TS]

  driving is is large and very very common [TS]

  profession and it is i think going to be [TS]

  one of the first that goes away in the [TS]

  world of autonomous vehicles help [TS]

  I and a potentially it will be better [TS]

  for all of us right it's the you may [TS]

  think of it it when these vehicles are [TS]

  networked together right [TS]

  they know a lot more about each other [TS]

  than we do right you don't know what the [TS]

  intentions of the person driving in [TS]

  front of you is if that's a computer in [TS]

  front of you you know you can tell your [TS]

  GPS coordinates where your destination [TS]

  is where you've been all so much gas [TS]

  you've got you know if there's all sorts [TS]

  of data that can be exchanged between [TS]

  these between these devices it's like [TS]

  you know it's not one of the shooters [TS]

  are way more interesting than a single [TS]

  laptop sitting on your desktop right [TS]

  huge source of car accidents and it i [TS]

  think often non-fatal wounds thankfully [TS]

  you know once did but you know for all [TS]

  the fate of obviously the fatalities are [TS]

  the worst thing worse i mean just [TS]

  that right there is why but the the [TS]

  minor ones the fender benders on a [TS]

  freeway that maybe nobody's hurt at all [TS]

  but can you know cause you to be an hour [TS]

  and a half late for work [TS]

  I Eric 360 lat everything my attention [TS]

  Rose your day and I think there was [TS]

  they're the ones that are be the easiest [TS]

  they're the ones that will be the [TS]

  easiest to avoid when every car involved [TS]

  is is is autonomous yeah well you've [TS]

  seen those those videos at the end of [TS]

  the wave propagation right one person [TS]

  taps on there are now on their their [TS]

  brakes somebody sees the red lights a [TS]

  tap on there's no on its own home and it [TS]

  you know that wave propagates the point [TS]

  where the wave stops right and you know [TS]

  yeah it's all happened all of us it's [TS]

  like you know why my stopped on the [TS]

  freeway right you know there's gotta be [TS]

  some accident up ahead of us [TS]

  you know five minutes later you know [TS]

  you're looking for this accident and [TS]

  it's not there right so you know [TS]

  eliminate that and everybody's life gets [TS]

  a little easier except for the people [TS]

  that get paid to drive [TS]

  yeah so there's a side by everybody [TS]

  knows the sci-fi future the syfy future [TS]

  is very few people have to work and we [TS]

  have robots you know it to life of [TS]

  leisure for everybody and you know robot [TS]

  you know it's the UH the people who live [TS]

  on the ship in wally right you know [TS]

  lounge about the you know the pool deck [TS]

  all day long [TS]

  yeah and robots bring your food and you [TS]

  don't nobody has to work [TS]

  I killed his own right but there's there [TS]

  is a very painful period between here [TS]

  and there because here it's expected it [TS]

  to be a successful person you're [TS]

  gainfully and fully employed at a you [TS]

  know that a is high wage as possible so [TS]

  i don't know problems coming let me take [TS]

  one last break here and and then [TS]

  afterwards we have a great thing to talk [TS]

  about your book but let me tell you [TS]

  right now that our third and final [TS]

  sponsor our good friends at back place [TS]

  back place offers unlimited native [TS]

  backup for your mac and pc no credit [TS]

  card required to sign up [TS]

  no risk 15 day free trial just go to [TS]

  backblaze dot-com / daring fireball not [TS]

  the talkshow not talk show [TS]

  daring fireball they just use that same [TS]

  code whether they're on the site or [TS]

  whether they're here on the the podcast [TS]

  you install it [TS]

  it's a great native system pref panel [TS]

  runs on your Mac written by former Apple [TS]

  engineers doesn't mess up your system or [TS]

  gum it up or anyway it's not like some [TS]

  kind of gross thing you know like [TS]

  running something that runs in the [TS]

  background and does something it's it [TS]

  gives me the heebie-jeebies back place [TS]

  runs and it backs up everything [TS]

  everything you want backed up if you [TS]

  have an external hard drive and it's [TS]

  like a big like for terabyte external [TS]

  harddrive well i gotta pay extra for [TS]

  that know it will back it up the only [TS]

  hits the only thing where it's like well [TS]

  that sounds too good to be true the only [TS]

  hitch is that the more data you have the [TS]

  more external drives the longer it takes [TS]

  for that initial backup to get [TS]

  everything up there they can't be banned [TS]

  with whatever your upstream is from your [TS]

  computer to the cloud that's how much [TS]

  can get backed up at a time [TS]

  ah so it might take a while for that [TS]

  initial backup but then after that [TS]

  everything gets backed up incrementally [TS]

  they have iphone apps android apps a [TS]

  website where you can access your backup [TS]

  so if you're out about and into your on [TS]

  your iPhone and you need like one file [TS]

  just to send somebody you can use the [TS]

  back plays a plug-in get that file an [TS]

  email and offer send it by text message [TS]

  or whatever catastrophe strikes [TS]

  something happens the roof leaks water [TS]

  gets all of your computer shorts it out [TS]

  something like that something terrible [TS]

  you need to restore everything you can [TS]

  get them to put everything you have on a [TS]

  hard drive and have it overnighted to [TS]

  you by fedex and if you want when they [TS]

  do that you can restore it put it on [TS]

  your own hard drive and then you can [TS]

  send that hard drive you erase it send [TS]

  it back to school to back place and i'll [TS]

  give you the money back for the dr you [TS]

  just pay for the shipping or whatever [TS]

  it's it's a great service if you need a [TS]

  full restoration you just need one file [TS]

  they've restored over 10 billion files [TS]

  for the customers [TS]

  no gimmicks no additional charges here's [TS]

  what it costs five dollars a month per [TS]

  computer for unlimited on thrower [TS]

  off-site backup [TS]

  here's why I am so happy until do that [TS]

  do this read this show go home for the [TS]

  holidays and [TS]

  give your parents give a real present in [TS]

  the present him to give your dad at the [TS]

  shaving kit from harris or whatever but [TS]

  while you're there at their house just [TS]

  sign them up for back place [TS]

  don't give it to him as a gift because [TS]

  backup it doesn't sound like a good gift [TS]

  just do it just go to your parents house [TS]

  or wherever else you got anybody else [TS]

  was in your extended family when your [TS]

  home for the holidays [TS]

  sign them up for back please put it on [TS]

  your own credit card and just know that [TS]

  you're done them a great favor for just [TS]

  five bucks a month [TS]

  yeah what a great thing to do for your [TS]

  parents that that in a lot about [TS]

  something for you that five bucks as [TS]

  cheap as soon as you lose your data and [TS]

  I everybody soon as your mom my mom [TS]

  calls me up when the village i'll write [TS]

  and says this says there's a kernel [TS]

  panic and whatever and the thing doesn't [TS]

  start up or whatever you just you just [TS]

  think you know what [TS]

  how great is this i know that I you know [TS]

  you all of her stuff all the mom stuff [TS]

  your dad stuff is backed up just do it [TS]

  for him what a great feeling it would be [TS]

  it if you did that so go do that over [TS]

  the holidays when you see him go to [TS] / daring fireball to find [TS]

  out more and you'll support the show all [TS]

  right Craig here we go [TS]

  but that look at the making sense of [TS]

  color management [TS]

  yeah today dollar book from a book apart [TS]

  how long did it take you to write about [TS]

  you [TS]

  the two years started in November 2014 [TS]

  and you know you blame me for the the [TS]

  non-responsive during fire bod playing [TS]

  safari engineers for for this whole [TS]

  thing happening they ever ruses mountain [TS]

  lion was the release at the time and all [TS]

  of a sudden the colors in safari were [TS]

  subtly different than the ones and [TS]

  chrome what the heck is going on here [TS]

  and you know that we have that product [TS]

  expo which has you know let you do all [TS]

  sorts of screen measurements that stuff [TS]

  a lot of designers a lot of developers [TS]

  use it two to as though there were [TS]

  xscope yeah actually it has an on-screen [TS]

  loop that you can it's a little window [TS]

  you can drive over another window and [TS]

  then you can have it zoom in on that [TS]

  window and show you what's underneath it [TS]

  persisted eyes and it could be like at [TS]

  the time I think you what you're saying [TS]

  is you can [TS]

  drag it over safari and it you'd see [TS]

  this one color and safari and then you [TS]

  look at an ex-cop and it would be like a [TS]

  slightly color shifted yeah you know and [TS]

  and you expect it to be no hash you know [TS]

  c 00 and it's like hash c36 what the [TS]

  heck is going on here and it turns out [TS]

  that they had implemented color [TS]

  management for their CSS colors and that [TS]

  was like oh ok I'm going to fix this bug [TS]

  and that was the start of my learning [TS]

  about color management and as I learned [TS]

  about it was like I should write this [TS]

  down you know maybe make a good blog [TS]

  post and it's one of those topics that [TS]

  the more you learn about it the more you [TS]

  know what you don't know and they got to [TS]

  be like 10,000 words and my blog post [TS]

  sounds like this is not a blog post [TS]

  anymore so I got in contact with the [TS]

  Jeff resultant and some other people at [TS]

  a book apart and they're like yeah we'd [TS]

  love to publish this and only what is it [TS]

  about 75 pages [TS]

  yeah it I mean that was the hard part [TS]

  right taking this really complex topic [TS]

  and distilling it and I mean I'd my [TS]

  editor it a book part was Tina Lee is [TS]

  just awesome because you know she would [TS]

  challenge me if I get it was too long [TS]

  right [TS]

  I understand what you're saying here and [TS]

  i really had that you know how to I [TS]

  probably brought the book in its [TS]

  entirety three different times I i we [TS]

  were pretty close to being done and [TS]

  apple announced color management and iOS [TS]

  10 wait we're not done so you know [TS]

  basically two chapters you know the [TS]

  chapter on web browsers because rer mile [TS]

  s changed significantly in that release [TS]

  and chapter on mobile apps [TS]

  it was completely rewrite man and sample [TS]

  code and all the stuff that goes along [TS]

  with it was like well okay but i think [TS]

  it came out really well on the end if it [TS]

  affects anybody who makes anything for [TS]

  the screen [TS]

  honestly I mean that answer I'm not just [TS]

  trying to copy the book but whether [TS]

  you're a designer graphic [TS]

  designer who makes assets for you know [TS]

  graphical assets for apps and websites [TS]

  or if you're a front-end developer on [TS]

  the web is making stuff for for you know [TS]

  HTML CSS you know web development or if [TS]

  you are an app developer for native apps [TS]

  for mac or iOS this book is for you and [TS]

  and not in no way a tad one of the [TS]

  things one of the things that i love [TS]

  about the book is at no point to me does [TS]

  it is it is it all that clear who the [TS]

  main audiences for its balance it's not [TS]

  like oh it's a book for programmers but [TS]

  if you're a designer you can still get [TS]

  something out of it or the other way [TS]

  it's it's a book for designers but you [TS]

  should read it if you're a programmer [TS]

  because you you need to understand this [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  yeah it's only weakly as we personally [TS]

  balanced from all those perspectives [TS]

  i'll tell you a little story we [TS]

  struggled with the title because they [TS]

  thought it initially retinol color [TS]

  management for developers and it was [TS]

  like now it's for designers to and [TS]

  others like working with colors kind of [TS]

  like to vague and Jason Santa Maria came [TS]

  up with making sense of color management [TS]

  was like just click right because it's [TS]

  like that's what it's all about right [TS]

  we're trying to take this black dark art [TS]

  that that everybody's kind of filled [TS]

  with some knobs and kind of maybe got [TS]

  something working but doesn't really [TS]

  understand what's going on [TS]

  it's and you know that you know when you [TS]

  read the book you realize that making [TS]

  sense also applies to our visual sense [TS]

  right there's a lot of them but then [TS]

  detect the core of color manage really [TS]

  the mathematical modeling of how I works [TS]

  which to me is it which is in a way to [TS]

  really well in the book [TS]

  yeah really well that was that was my [TS]

  aha moment it's like oh wait [TS]

  we've got all these devices that have [TS]

  different color profiles different way [TS]

  of characterizing color and they all [TS]

  kind of that they're a little different [TS]

  but then we got this thing called an eye [TS]

  which doesn't change it does it you know [TS]

  the yes it's changed over you know [TS]

  millions of years do the evolution but [TS]

  you know and it at its core I mean that [TS]

  is the thing with this it does [TS]

  change so it's you know of color [TS]

  management all revolves around that [TS]

  sense of vision so and in terms of being [TS]

  well-timed in terms of where we are as [TS]

  an industry you're right web browser [TS]

  Safari leading the way [TS]

  yeah management cancer in the reason [TS]

  they did that is clear now right it's [TS]

  like they need color management because [TS]

  they knew that they were coming out with [TS]

  these new displays which have a wider [TS]

  can hats the other the other shoe that's [TS]

  dropping is the display technologies [TS]

  starting with the imac 5k last year [TS]

  yep which was their first product with [TS]

  the what do they call it a deep color [TS]

  gamut it were widely wide color yeah it [TS]

  did write this gets into the argument [TS]

  you had with our our mutual friend Gus [TS]

  me laugh and technically edit edit your [TS]

  book Gaspar's dealer [TS]

  yeah it and it it he's right text it's [TS]

  technically it's deeper you got you know [TS]

  16 pics are 16 bits instead of eight so [TS]

  yes it's a deeper pixel but that only [TS]

  talks about the pixel and I think the [TS]

  reason why apple's started calling it [TS]

  white colors it not only talking about [TS]

  the actual pixels but it's also talking [TS]

  about the gamut which is the thing that [TS]

  you know these displays can display more [TS]

  color and yeah it's it's not excited [TS]

  about like right now right right now [TS]

  when you look at the display and it was [TS]

  immediately obvious it didn't write the [TS]

  the thing that I'm here in fact my wife [TS]

  got one of these new 4k LG display's for [TS]

  her new a macbook pro and it was like [TS]

  the first thing she said to me was like [TS]

  wow this display looks great right [TS]

  Horace Horace it is that the same thing [TS]

  about the the the ipad pro the 9.7 inch [TS]

  iPad pro the first iOS device that had a [TS]

  white color places there's something [TS]

  striking about this play I don't know [TS]

  what it is but it just it looks great [TS]

  it's and that that the way that I [TS]

  explain it to people it's like the you [TS]

  know if you only ever had a bass speaker [TS]

  rate the old you never listen to music [TS]

  on you know a bass speaker and then [TS]

  somebody gave you a tweeter you would be [TS]

  like wow this sounds a lot better [TS]

  you know you basically you're getting [TS]

  more detail right you you become [TS]

  accustomed to something and that's what [TS]

  retina was reading I gave us more pixels [TS]

  people picked up it on immediately but [TS]

  then you start talking about a 0 a wider [TS]

  range of tonal values and it's a lot [TS]

  harder to express that you know it's [TS]

  like you know you should be more dynamic [TS]

  range in your music and it's like it [TS]

  sounds better but you don't really know [TS]

  why and I don't think it's any I don't [TS]

  think there's any trick to which which [TS]

  came first [TS]

  retin-a resolution is far more important [TS]

  I'm yeah you know I don't think [TS]

  everybody would agree i'd rather have a [TS]

  Retina resolution without the deep gamut [TS]

  than to have a deep gamut display but [TS]

  the old pre-reading a resolution is not [TS]

  right right right is more important [TS]

  that's more noticeable but the next step [TS]

  is clearly increasing the number of [TS]

  colors that's why I think Apple goes [TS]

  with wide because I think they're [TS]

  describing it from the users perspective [TS]

  yeah absolutely yeah yeah they give you [TS]

  a wider vision of of your of your life [TS]

  and you know that the fact that the the [TS]

  iphone cameras now are shooting and [TS]

  display p3 you know there's gonna be a [TS]

  lot more of these wide gamut of floating [TS]

  around you know the answer that right it [TS]

  was there already are great every photo [TS]

  that's taken with an iphone 7 already [TS]

  it's here [TS]

  yeah and and you know that we actually [TS]

  that the guys at Instagram mike krieger [TS]

  and then the the crew there I i gave an [TS]

  early version of the book because I knew [TS]

  you know they're going to have this [TS]

  problem you know the you know you kind [TS]

  of get apple loves to have apps on stage [TS]

  when they announce something that was [TS]

  pretty obvious to me that the display p [TS]

  3 screens and cameras were coming to the [TS]

  next iphone connect the dots ok and I'll [TS]

  give a copy of the book and it really [TS]

  helped them right over there when the [TS]

  ipad pro got it [TS]

  yeah the ipad pro got the wide color [TS]

  gamut within the 9.7 form factor in [TS]

  March it i thought it was a sure thing [TS]

  that the iphone would get me too and it [TS]

  and and that explained to you know the [TS]

  again practice you know mountain lion [TS]

  the guy [TS]

  as in safari changing the way things [TS]

  work suddenly it all kind of fell into [TS]

  place that ok this is not just a mac [TS]

  thing this is iOS thing this is it all [TS]

  turns out that the touch bar on the new [TS]

  macbook pros is a display p3 gamut on an [TS]

  old toilet yeah on i'll let you know [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah so it's gonna be everywhere and and [TS]

  and I did I felt that is great and as [TS]

  developers who are just thinking that [TS]

  the pixel is you know it's a red a bit [TS]

  of green eight bits of blue you're in [TS]

  for some surprises when that no longer [TS]

  just eight bits number one and number [TS]

  two it's characterized by an icc color [TS]

  profile right here you that's and that's [TS]

  the thing that I am describing in the [TS]

  book and then a challenge for people [TS]

  working today it it'll i'm not going to [TS]

  say it will be easier but in a way it [TS]

  would be like let's fast forward 10 [TS]

  years and I think we can probably guess [TS]

  that 10 years from now almost all [TS]

  commonly used devices will have the wide [TS]

  color displays oh yeah yeah absolutely [TS]

  yeah you know it is it it's a [TS]

  competitive advantage for apple right [TS]

  now right yes AR there ahead of the game [TS]

  right but they were the head of a game [TS]

  with retina right there have you can [TS]

  handle a lot of technologies [TS]

  this looks better is it is a compelling [TS]

  competitive advantage in almost every [TS]

  single field but there's almost no [TS]

  market where this looks better than the [TS]

  competition is not even a seriously I'm [TS]

  not even being a jerk but even like if [TS]

  you're selling produce if you have fresh [TS]

  fruit that looks better than the store [TS]

  across the street it's better it's a [TS]

  competitive advantage [TS]

  yeah that's one of the things you said [TS]

  yeah yeah that's one of things that [TS]

  pissed me off about the the google pixel [TS]

  comparisons with the iphone all the [TS]

  comparisons i looked at were in the srgb [TS]

  colour space they had to actually take [TS]

  the photo that came off of the iphone [TS]

  and crap laughs I it to compare [TS]

  on their you know their webpage right [TS]

  they think we've talked about this and [TS]

  there were some of these some of these [TS]

  competitions it are you know like hey [TS]

  let's compare the google pixel to the [TS]

  iphone 7 and photos it looks like [TS]

  whatever they did to reduce the color [TS]

  gamut and some of the cases it it really [TS]

  wash them out [TS]

  I mean as its there's different ways to [TS]

  do it there is no easy way to just say [TS]

  take this image that was shot with a [TS]

  wide color gamut and just do the one [TS]

  true way to show it on a on a bright [TS]

  free you know or play or does he make [TS]

  some of them converted in a way that [TS]

  really washed it out [TS]

  yeah or you can if you then decide okay [TS]

  i'm going to just ignore the color [TS]

  profile you've got a different problem [TS]

  right you've got color shifting so it's [TS]

  either going to walk out or it's going [TS]

  to shift so you really eat and and [TS]

  that's why we're developers need them [TS]

  started understanding this stuff right [TS]

  if you're going to present this good [TS]

  high-quality photography on your web [TS]

  page or on your mobile app or wherever [TS]

  you need to understand what you're [TS]

  dealing with and we'll hear this [TS]

  that is why i love the book i love the [TS]

  book and I I you kind enough to ask me [TS]

  to write the foreword for it and i did [TS]

  and i hope it turned out alright but the [TS]

  right forward I'm very happy you did [TS]

  that as it may be the not had word then [TS]

  of it is that what makes the book great [TS]

  is that you don't just say here's what [TS]

  to do to make your stuff look right you [TS]

  explain why right if you do this this is [TS]

  why it will look right on all of the [TS]

  displays your targeting whereby right is [TS]

  the best it could possibly look [TS]

  according to your intentions as the [TS]

  designer or the photographer or whatever [TS]

  it is that you're displaying here's why [TS]

  here's what to do and why and [TS]

  understanding it it makes it so much [TS]

  easier to remember it and it's also more [TS]

  satisfying because that's to me at the [TS]

  Voodoo of before and like the eye-opener [TS]

  for me was that it for me there [TS]

  something that was completely opposite [TS]

  of what i expected is that sometimes in [TS]

  some cases you're actually better off [TS]

  you the right thing to do is not to [TS]

  embed a color profile right [TS]

  right right I've always done that and [TS]

  then it did things don't look right my [TS]

  daring fireball you know 5825 a it [TS]

  doesn't quite look right it's like [TS]

  always in the background to YY and i [TS]

  started flipping switches and then all [TS]

  of a sudden I've got over exported ping [TS]

  that looks right here and there okay at [TS]

  it I'm happy because now I've got this [TS]

  asset that looks at it to my eyes right [TS]

  on both chrome and safari but because i [TS]

  don't know why it it's like I lose a [TS]

  little sleep at night [TS]

  yeah right and then you go look at ipad [TS]

  or an android device and it's wrong to [TS]

  think that that's it that's the classic [TS]

  ones i have [TS]

  oh la la how does all the end so the [TS]

  other thing that too I that I really [TS]

  love about this book and I think it [TS]

  really shows and now you even spoke [TS]

  about working with your editor is that [TS]

  it it clearly a lot of work went into [TS]

  what's there but then a lot of work went [TS]

  into taking out what's not there and [TS]

  there was an old adage in the print days [TS]

  and i know a lot of people buy their [TS]

  books now as ebooks and and for computer [TS]

  books that particular that's true but in [TS]

  the print days there was a real problem [TS]

  and people who are releasing textbooks [TS]

  which was that I this is true i may have [TS]

  spoken too [TS]

  I one time I met Tim O'Reilly and even [TS]

  spoke to him about it but that they knew [TS]

  based on on on sales that based on [TS]

  topics what people would do is they go [TS]

  into the bookstore and they knew they [TS]

  wanted to get a book on SQL and they did [TS]

  there's 12 of them so they would just [TS]

  buy the thickest one because they would [TS]

  think well they're all forty dollars [TS]

  i'll just get this one that's thicker [TS]

  and figure it's got more got a nice [TS]

  night relation i hated those books that [TS]

  had you know just reams and reams of [TS]

  source code in the book [TS]

  it's like oh I didn't know they were [TS]

  going to just add it out just there was [TS]

  there wasn't any we have here a really [TS]

  strong provable correlation between [TS]

  best-selling books by topic and best [TS]

  topics by length the the longer thicker [TS]

  books by the topic were tended to be the [TS]

  best sellers and that didn't make them [TS]

  the best books sometimes the best book [TS]

  is is shorter sometimes they're did you [TS]

  know there are some great books some [TS]

  great technical books that are really [TS]

  think you know that their programming [TS]

  pearl is one that I go to all the time [TS]

  yet [TS]

  laerdal in and don't do right you know [TS]

  the daughter could get programming that [TS]

  that can't be a short book anything it [TS]

  takes up it takes up a whole shelf right [TS]

  that's great but there are other books [TS]

  that really should be you know the fact [TS]

  that this is 70 pages is because there [TS]

  are 75 whatever it is it's their 75 [TS]

  pages to say about it and that's the 75 [TS]

  pages that are in the book and yep it [TS]

  really shows it's like building rocks [TS]

  what a deal [TS]

  it's like building program [TS]

  it's like building program [TS]

  product right you the the the parts you [TS]

  take away are the hardest and most [TS]

  important when you create you should be [TS]

  really proud of this book [TS]

  anybody out there listening if you wore [TS]

  have any sort of job that entails [TS]

  putting pixels on two screens and you [TS]

  want them to look right i highly [TS]

  recommend this book i really do mean it [TS]

  I mean it from the bottom of my heart I [TS]

  don't know there are even written a [TS]

  forward to a book before [TS]

  yeah but I did it not because you're my [TS]

  pal but because the book is good [TS]

  I don't frankly i don't really like you [TS]

  that much yeah I buy you drinks every [TS]

  once in a while so you know that's [TS]

  there's that a book apart product you [TS]

  don't make any outgoing and it's just [TS]

  the you know don't just check out my [TS]

  book the whole a book apart family [TS]

  that's true great [TS]

  there's actually very mean that they've [TS]

  got a they they've got that notion of [TS]

  shorter is better and you know if you're [TS]

  looking about anything about roof [TS]

  responsive web design for example intent [TS]

  you know they've got an awesome book on [TS]

  it and I and it's as somebody who is [TS]

  personally who does judge books by car [TS]

  covers I i judging by the contents to [TS]

  but that the whole thing you can't judge [TS]

  a book by the cover it's a bunch of [TS]

  bullshit [TS]

  yeah in my opinion better books tend to [TS]

  look better their books are gorgeous [TS]

  thanks to Jason Jason santa maria and [TS]

  the outside I know he's the the head [TS]

  designer there but boys [TS]

  he's good with typography in their books [TS]

  also are first-class print books I know [TS]

  your book is an e-book only but the that [TS]

  there Derek publisher that treats their [TS]

  ebooks every bit as lovingly in every [TS]

  regard as they do their their print [TS]

  books [TS]

  yeah it's it's it's you know it when [TS]

  Jason showed me that the first comp for [TS]

  the book I was like that this is this is [TS]

  this is a real thing now and ya got me [TS]

  really excited just just by looking at [TS]

  that cover and it was just wasn't hard [TS]

  here's my technical question was a hard [TS]

  for the covers gorgeous especially the [TS]

  bottom left corner or just forward by [TS]

  john gruber i love that well anyway [TS]

  thank you very much for your time for [TS]

  being on the show [TS]

  thank you even more for writing this [TS]

  excellent book everybody should go get a [TS]

  copy it is absolutely terrific [TS]

  I want to thank our sponsors Harry's get [TS]

  a shaving kit [TS]

  Squarespace build your own website [TS]

  backblaze back up your computer and [TS]

  backup backup your family members to get [TS]

  form [TS]

  Thank You Craig [TS]