The Accidental Tech Podcast

93: I`m Not Running a Boarding House Here


  But it's one that we can do in thirty first because case you might be at a New Year's party I'm going to parties [TS]

  anymore a part of his life is over now. Well no I didn't even ask you John. That's my birthday. It is the thirty first. [TS]

  It's his fortieth birthday Marco get with the program. Oh man where I've been. You're the worst. [TS]

  OK So we will record that day you know we can go live a terrible no. Why isn't that terrible. I'm not going anywhere. [TS]

  I'll be in the house you should be going somewhere so we're going to YOU SHOULD NOT BE IT'S MY BIRTHDAY AND DO IT I [TS]

  WILL and I think that's the B.S. We're bring people thing your birthday is about them or what they want to do. [TS]

  I'm not I don't care what you want to do on my birthday I care what I want to do and I love you so much. [TS]

  Well talk to Tina make sure that that I understand that schedule one hundred [TS]

  and never do any of my birthday were under any Remember those that her gift to you every year is not doing anything [TS]

  that I thought I asked for every year what do you have your birthday. [TS]

  No gifts and no party you want to do some follow up really quickly starting with batteries. [TS]

  Sure they were talking about how the on the watch [TS]

  and the components will have to go down in power because the battery is not going to save it because batteries are only [TS]

  increasing not increasing as fast as the power usage of the internals of the watch might decrease in their in their [TS]

  power thirst and I think after a number like fifteen percent year over year or something. [TS]

  Anthony Kennedy wrote in to say that the number is actually much lower than that [TS]

  and I talked about this on a hypothetical number seventy four which is way back in when June of two thousand [TS]

  and twelve had a similar show and wondered the same thing and probably got thing back probably from the same person [TS]

  or name remember. [TS]

  But anyway the actual number is more like seven to eight percent year over year for battery increases so if you're [TS]

  looking for a better technology to save the watch that's not going to happen it can be just like the phone where the [TS]

  components are just going to go down in power usage [TS]

  and it's going to be a long time before batteries are twice as good as they are now four times as good ten times as [TS]

  good. Yeah there's something about the that a lot of the way. [TS]

  Watch speculation from people has really kind of annoyed me. [TS]

  People keep saying oh well you know right now the watch is going to have this battery life is going to have you know [TS]

  one day but it only a few years it's going to have way better battery life [TS]

  and I think this is not only you know it's not only an overestimation of how quickly batteries get better [TS]

  but also I think it's it's ignoring the way things usually tend to happen with computer form factors. [TS]

  Look at the phone for instance look at the i Phone The very first i Phone battery life was you know roughly a day of [TS]

  usage almost every i Phone since then and has been roughly a day of usage [TS]

  and you know like the six plus it's you know now it's like you know maybe two days for some people to use it [TS]

  but the battery life in the entire i Phone line in the last what seven [TS]

  and a half years has stayed pretty much the same you know with give and take here and there [TS]

  but in the same ballpark we're not talking about order of magnitude difference here you know it's not it's not it's not [TS]

  going from a day to a week [TS]

  or two a month because the reality is you're you're bound by how much mass you have to devote to battery space [TS]

  and generally what kind of you know what kind of power output you need [TS]

  and things like radios it's hard to make those lower power because you just need a certain to transmit power etc [TS]

  screens you know you have to eat a certain amount of light and so even like the watch. [TS]

  I suspect they're going to go to the screens either in the first version or soon afterwards. [TS]

  And that's I suspect that's why everything that designed with black backgrounds. [TS]

  Because as far as I know actually only use electricity to light up the pixels of that right. Yeah. [TS]

  Each individual pixel emits light so if you have ones that are on Karlie off they don't right. [TS]

  So if you have an all black screen with a few thin white lines that actually doesn't use a whole lot of a lot of power [TS]

  for the for the L.C.D. Anyway ultimately I think the watch is always going to be extremely battery constrained. [TS]

  It's always going to last roughly a day. [TS]

  That's always been the target because what's going to happen [TS]

  when the battery gets eight percent more efficient next year they're going to make the watch a percent thinner [TS]

  or something like that that's what they do they're not going to make it ten times larger [TS]

  and give you a week of battery life like that. [TS]

  Typically if you look at the at a different form factors of technology look at the same thing in tablets tablets have [TS]

  roughly ten hours of battery life. Usually you know like and it's that's not a coincidence. [TS]

  It's because everyone just kind of just kind of figured OK well the best balance of like way to brightness to [TS]

  computational power to radios to size gives roughly these proportions and it's it's roughly in that ballpark. [TS]

  The watch I don't think is ever going to be at the point where it gets you know a month of battery life like a [TS]

  traditional watch. There even longer. [TS]

  I think we're always going to be measuring it in small numbers of days for you know well not always on an infinite time [TS]

  scale but maybe not on a Syracuse a time scale but or for the foreseeable future [TS]

  and you know I'm talking probably a decade possibly longer I think that's the kind of magnitude of battery life are [TS]

  going to talking about here I don't think that's going to change for all the battery stuff for these things you can [TS]

  just think of the battery is constant even though it's seventy percent a year compared are the elves basically [TS]

  consonant what what Apple in particular has done if you even if you just ignore thickness [TS]

  and stuff which we talk about a lot of if you just made a little thicker every year they spend the additional resources [TS]

  like you know so they do a process shrink [TS]

  or now we have all this extra power overhead because all of something's lost power are we switched all that we just got [TS]

  forty fifty percent screen power back. [TS]

  What are we going to do with all that all they do with all is they spend it on computer make the C.P.U. [TS]

  Faster they make you be a veteran. And how much faster they decide to make it how much do they spend on RAM C.P.U. [TS]

  G.P.U. [TS]

  They spend as much as they possibly can while keeping the thing the same thickness or thinner [TS]

  and keeping the same battery alive but that's where they spend it all because the c. [TS]

  Do you keep getting faster and faster and with the shrinks like when they have the shrink. [TS]

  If they had to shrink it let's just keep the C.P.U. [TS]

  The same as it was rocking going to sixty four bit we're not going to go to three core is not going to go to court who [TS]

  is going to one Cor our battery life could be tremendous now [TS]

  but they don't they always spend it I mean the sooner they get the additional power savings from the major components [TS]

  not the additional battery life will power savings. [TS]

  They spend as much as it or they can to meet their goal which enables case tends to be thinner if possible. [TS]

  And whatever the target battery life is other people could be spending that same windfall again not a windfall from [TS]

  battery gains windfall from lower power components they could spend in all sorts of ways they could spend it merely by [TS]

  increasing their battery life and just keep it the same then we'd be using a C.P.U. In a G.P.O. [TS]

  That are as powerful as the i Phone one but a battery life would be insane. [TS]

  But nobody wants I don't think we're probably not enough. [TS]

  We're probably this is going to be our photo management thing like from the prompt isn't it where we just continually [TS]

  complain about the fact that Apple's insisting on scene over everything I don't complain about I like I think it's a [TS]

  reasonable thing to do it's just that [TS]

  when you diversify the line of products maybe there's room finally for one that varies in this way you know what I mean. [TS]

  Like when there's just one product [TS]

  and then you constantly making it there it seems like you might have such a range specially with a big giant phone it [TS]

  seems like there'd be room in their line up to make a different compromise in this particular area instead of going [TS]

  across the board it's always got to be thinner for the target battery life. [TS]

  Right like like what if there was an i Phone six that one millimeter thicker than the five S. [TS]

  With the six not the six plus because that might be a little unwieldy at the six plus size [TS]

  but with the regular six taken the five S. [TS]

  Instead of being such a thinner than it that might give it forty percent more battery life [TS]

  and it would be a little heavier as a result and so this is this is a problem. Batteries is that they're heavy too. [TS]

  It isn't just about making space for them it's also about weight. As I say you go for the the i Phone. [TS]

  Five form factor like if they bring that back you know well you know to make a new phone in that size is that it is [TS]

  continuing the five S. In the five C. [TS]

  If you made a cheap phone think that cheap small phone make it thick [TS]

  and then it's like well the top of the line went to super thin and sexy. [TS]

  If you get the four inch model which is you know I guess it's so bad the five S. [TS]

  Internals like put a think about it [TS]

  and that one then then it kind of makes sense in the lineup rather than trying to make to be expensive one take because [TS]

  like you said heavier feels like Haitian you know the feels should not be getting the sleek one like the the Palm five [TS]

  this week Parliament was because so much thinner than you know a pump I was so good got your leg on recently I looked [TS]

  at mine recently and really it's just about like like you remember it in your mind that I had the five X. [TS]

  After after my three X. [TS]

  Finally died like it took so long for anything else to come out that was as good as the as the as the five X. [TS]

  but That one hundred sixty one hundred sixty pixel screen I believe so yes I like that. [TS]

  But almost bigger than I was like honors [TS]

  and I because it is big it is the biggest most I was icons we are sponsored this week by studio neat once again. [TS]

  The guy's a studio neat design tools that make the things you have just a little bit better. [TS]

  They started with the glyph that's the G.L. I F. [TS]

  The glyph a tripod mount [TS]

  and stand for i Phones Well now they have a new version of it that is adjustable so it into just what the case size [TS]

  changes of the i Phone So now when the new i Phones came out when the i Phone six [TS]

  and six plus came out it was compatible on day one and it works whether or not you have a case on your phone. [TS]

  They also make the cars not stylish which I like a lot of my favorite styles for i Pads [TS]

  and now they've moved onto cocktails and cocktail products so the studio guys Tom [TS]

  and Dan are on a mission to convince you make an awesome cocktail that home isn't that hard. [TS]

  Cocktails are simple you get a few readily available ingredients you have access to everything a fancy cocktail bar [TS]

  does. Except clear incorrectly sized ice to fix this Tom and then made the neat. [TS]

  I skipped the knife because a set of tools for creating the right price for your at home cocktails. [TS]

  Now Casey you have any nice get. As do I. You describe how it works. Sure so you need ice Kit has a few components. [TS]

  It is a sole cone sleeve for lack of better word [TS]

  and then a foam insulated thing that you put around it like a giant cosey. [TS]

  Yeah yeah that's right away is it cozier Cousy because I was thought it was cozy. You're from Ohio. [TS]

  Anyway this is about the need I skate in the need ice kit is amazing and I made a whole review. [TS]

  I put a whole post on my blog. A review of this thing which I never do because I like it so darn much. [TS]

  And what you do is you have the sole counsel either you put some water in I think it's like four inches long two inches [TS]

  deep and two inches wide [TS]

  and so you fill it up with water you put that silicone sleeve inside the cozy Cousy cozy whatever [TS]

  and discard the scuzzy right hence you put that in the freezer. [TS]

  Wait about a day and what ends up happening is because of the way ice freezes. [TS]

  You have a four by two by two block of ice that's about half really really cloudy and half crystal clear. [TS]

  And so what you do is you use the included mallet and chisel to break the block in half [TS]

  and you can use the cloudy part for things like Martini shakers [TS]

  or something like that where it's not terribly important that you have clear ice [TS]

  and then you can use the clear piece for you know just having a cocktail on the rocks [TS]

  or in this case on the rock you can you can you can chisel it even further [TS]

  and use it like a Tom Collins classes that are etc This thing is amazing. [TS]

  It is totally totally a waste of time by most measures and OH MY GOD I LOVE IT SO MUCH I really honestly do [TS]

  and Granted I'm paranoid and I don't like being pay. Good to say I love it but don't really it. [TS]

  Oh my God it's the best. [TS]

  It really really is the best [TS]

  and if you at all care about the quality of your cocktails I cannot suggest enough that you pick one of these up it's [TS]

  amazing. [TS]

  Each Need ice kit includes the scuzzy mode we were just talking about a chisel that includes a bottle opener a club [TS]

  which also something of a mother [TS]

  and a Louis bag so you can use these things to create essentially any ice type you could need for a cocktail. [TS]

  You can make a big beautiful clear ice cube for like an old fashion [TS]

  or something you can make smaller ice chunks for Tom Collins you can make crushed ice for a mint julep. [TS]

  This makes an amazing gift for the holidays you can give people for wedding gifts and everything. [TS]

  This is one of those things like every holiday season about like the entire category of gifts that are for other adults [TS]

  that that you don't really know what else to get them [TS]

  and maybe they're hard to shop for because they hate everything where they already have everything. [TS]

  This category of guess is usually full of bunch of garbage. [TS]

  There's a very small number of things that I would recommend in this category and this is one of them. [TS]

  Thanks a lot to studio neat and the neat ice kit for sponsoring our show. [TS]

  Once again go to Studio neat dot com and use code A.T.P. To get ten percent off anything in the store. [TS]

  Once again studio neat any eighty studio neat dot com Use Code A.T.P. For ten percent off. [TS]

  I also very highly recommend the glyph and the cosmonaut. OK So we also got some feedback from J.P. [TS]

  Toto who corrected I think mostly me more than anyone else about. [TS]

  I asked for the Microsoft web server on anything other than Windows and so he [TS]

  or she said regarding the I asked on linux dot net business. [TS]

  It won't actually be I asked running on Linux or the mac it is a new web server called Kestrel built on live T.V. [TS]

  and It's a lot like the node web server I don't know the exact writing model [TS]

  but you can front end it within generates engine X. How do you pronounce that engine X. and X. You got it. [TS]

  OK Thank you. Or something else. [TS]

  So don't worry nobody will be running big fat ins on any Linux [TS]

  and Sheens anytime soon so that makes a lot more sense than what I think I said on the last episode so I appreciate the [TS]

  follow up from J.P. Too. Moving on can you manufacture that thing like Apple does John. You can't sell to the story. [TS]

  We talk a lot about this about how Apple manufactures things last year we talked about how Apple deciding that it was [TS]

  going to make eventually its entire product line out of big blocks of aluminum the precision machines in the search. [TS]

  Shapes affected the rest of the industry and help the rest of the industry have the expertise and the machinery [TS]

  and the supplies out there to do this for their products as well like a Nokia MacMini clone thing [TS]

  and there was a particle on media my friends are covered on the author's name here [TS]

  when you can look up about how you can manufacture like Apple is it short. [TS]

  There was just a couple of throwaway one liner anecdotes about things that Apple has done like they bought ten thousand [TS]

  C.N.C. [TS]

  Milling machines to to make mac book bodies instead of you know just a couple of them to the laser drilled those holes [TS]

  to let you see the idea like that shines through the aluminum like you can see the holes [TS]

  and light is often light is on it's like magically shine through. [TS]

  There was you know only one company that made the drills that could make those little holes so bought the company [TS]

  and took all of its existing inventory to do it [TS]

  and you know they were manufacturing a battery to fit in some tiny space of know and sell you a battery that fits [TS]

  and there are no one's willing to make you one. [TS]

  You just make one yourself from scratch that's usually not an option for most people lot of it has to go if you know [TS]

  it's good to be the king. [TS]

  It's good to be big gigantic company with tons of money [TS]

  and it also means that other companies that don't make products that look as nice as apples [TS]

  or like try to imitate Apple Apple's products like they'll use aluminum they'll use glass to use you know laser cutter [TS]

  holes everything like that. If you're going to do exactly the same thing as Apple. [TS]

  It may be very difficult for you to make something as good or at a similar price or both your best [TS]

  but I would imagine is to make something that feels you know if you want to make something with equally high quality. [TS]

  Why isn't why isn't everything feel like it's made like an Apple product you can make something high quality you just [TS]

  might have to make it out of material that feels I call it a bit but is either a more established process [TS]

  or you know it cost less money or it doesn't require any special machinery can still feel expensive and high quality. [TS]

  You don't have to chase Apple Exactly exactly. [TS]

  You're going to have a very hard time doing exactly what they do for the same cost as they do [TS]

  but they just have massive economies of scale and a huge investment [TS]

  and probably people on their payroll people are locked into a squeeze of contracts that are the best at doing whatever [TS]

  it is they do so they look at that and shut out the lab to get pretty much just summarize the entire article. [TS]

  John why don't you tell us about how awesome it is to have an empty row on the bottom of your i Phone home screen. [TS]

  I told you about these people last week we were talking about the leaving the empty row [TS]

  and all that stuff like that I said some people don't have any rows and they just put everything in [TS]

  and a set of folders and one of those people send us a screenshot we'll put a link to the tree in the show. [TS]

  It just has four folders in the dock in each of the forefathers has a looks like a color coded set of nine icons so [TS]

  they could be more you can tell many pages and so that's their screen just blank. [TS]

  It's a big picture of the sun on the top [TS]

  and you know there is strokes for different folks I mean I this could just be like an artistic stunt type thing [TS]

  but like you say if you want everything to be toothache the way all the time at least go for it. Yeah. [TS]

  When you said that some people did this. You can believe me. [TS]

  Yeah I thought yeah maybe in theory somebody might be able to do this [TS]

  but there has to be nobody out there who actually would make everything harder to I mean this could be a stamp on the [TS]

  color coding it's like you know maybe this is just like a silly thing that is set up this way to get going. [TS]

  But I've seen people in real life we don't just have the doc like that what they will have is a row of folders at the [TS]

  top and the doc will have like you know phone mail [TS]

  and Safari where you know like the doc will just have single icons for them for it on the top of page one of your [TS]

  folders whenever I don't know this is not at all in my hands that I mean this is why you have the ability to customize [TS]

  it I suppose so everyone can be their own special snowflake. Tell me about Instagram completionist John. [TS]

  Oh yeah this is you know this is a complaint email from Jonathan another person suffering from a capital thing [TS]

  and they're going to that it was a it was a nice summary and it echoes my complaints. [TS]

  Jonathan says I try hard not to be an interim completion that is interns behavior is maddening. [TS]

  Not only does it forget where you are because there is a new images posted your return to the top [TS]

  or you're free to see it. [TS]

  I've never actually had this happen like where you're sitting there paging through images in a new image appears [TS]

  because I don't follow people I guess but if it's growing up to the top that would drive me mad as well. [TS]

  You're also a return to the top of your fee to be switch away from the app. Worse the feed has a fixed length. [TS]

  If you get to the end of the field you might be missing photos older than the oldest one visible. [TS]

  This leads me to the crazy behavior of checking my feed twice a day so I don't miss anything. [TS]

  This is probably exactly what Instagram ones I hate them. [TS]

  You know I have an Instagram completionist as well [TS]

  and I don't know how many people I follow run my mouth for second while I work [TS]

  but I don't really have this kind of problem. [TS]

  I agree with both you and Jonathan that that it is maddening the way their apt works for completionist [TS]

  but I don't run into the same kinds of problems that apparently you guys do like I've never seen it jump to the top. [TS]

  While I was browsing Instagram like I don't think it even does that yeah I don't I don't follow I don't follow enough [TS]

  people to have to do that but just merely a thing of just putting you at the top [TS]

  and you have to scroll back to find that last picture you're solid and like Twitter does it intentionally. [TS]

  Twitter's thing is you're not supposed to carry not supposed to be aging plays I suppose to be like what's happening [TS]

  now what's in the moment like an honest T.V. Channel you know in the seventy's or. [TS]

  NEVER LIKE I AM radio or whatever keep going back in time ever I'm going to telegraph anyway [TS]

  and what's going on now you know I supposed don't worry about the past the past of the past what's going on now which I [TS]

  think is not a great I don't I don't like that philosophy and I certainly don't use sort of that way. [TS]

  But anyway that's what they're going for this through I'm going for the same thing don't worry about what your people [TS]

  posted yesterday only worry about the pictures that are happening today like I guess it is [TS]

  but I would wonder like what is their ideal like volume. [TS]

  How many photos come from people that you follow per days and one in seven is at one hundred seven thousand. [TS]

  Like I don't know what their their number is of obviously my numbers are way below if they think it's very high [TS]

  and think like I don't know you're a teenager [TS]

  and all your friends are snapping seventeen it's going to pictures a day and you follow fifty people [TS]

  and it's just every day just hundreds [TS]

  and hundreds of pictures of course you're not going to be complete since you just want to say hey what's what are [TS]

  people doing now. Maybe you'll go back for one or two pictures but that's not how you sent to them. [TS]

  I just I'm not an experience as a gram user so I can't say like that's not what instrument is [TS]

  or what it started out as and certainly Twitter did not really start out as a completionist medium either [TS]

  but I don't know like I would love to ask if there is some person who has a vision for both Instagram and Twitter. [TS]

  Why is it that the vision of don't worry about happened in the past what is appealing about that why is that the goal. [TS]

  Like I'm not saying it's a bad goal but it seems weird to me. [TS]

  Graham is also like this [TS]

  and sort of also like is there no room for anything where you care about like special things we choose who you're going [TS]

  to follow. [TS]

  I guess he was not supposed to care about everything those people ever write I mean Facebook forget it Facebook is gone [TS]

  nobody sees any everything of anything anymore it's all just. [TS]

  Well but but there it's a monetization strategy that's very different I know but it like [TS]

  but it's also the whole down noise [TS]

  and like a tide seeing things with friending so you could sound people so they would still be your friends they didn't [TS]

  hurt their feelings but you never see any You're starting to see things by friends of friends and it's [TS]

  and you're right the monetizations that reason to it. [TS]

  At the mental model long ago on Facebook I feel like broke down to the point where regular people don't understand the [TS]

  permutations and I kept changing the rules anyway. So now just forget it. [TS]

  But Twitter [TS]

  and Instagram are both so simple vertical timeline chronologically ordered with a few variations thrown in [TS]

  but not many that haven't changed that much [TS]

  and yet they also want you to just apparently be like in the moment don't worry about what happened five seconds ago [TS]

  that both pictures are dead to you don't look back. [TS]

  Just real time follow up by the way I follow about ninety people on Instagram [TS]

  and I would say based on no fact checking whatsoever just got feeling I think I see between ten [TS]

  and twenty pictures in a given day. New new photos in a given day. So I don't see that many yet. [TS]

  Even when that small quantity the stuff drives me crazy. [TS]

  I should also point out as a responsible developer [TS]

  and skeptic that the reason why Instagram put your to the top whenever you launch the app [TS]

  and over this new stuff is probably at least it probably started out that way because that's easier like it's just a [TS]

  lot easier to say we're going to like the little defeat whatever the current feed you load that of two X. [TS]

  Items [TS]

  and you show that period you know that that works up until well before your purchase for a billion dollars You know one [TS]

  minimum viable product don't worry about it blah blah blah [TS]

  but then like some at some point you get around to that some point in the multiple years before you're acquired for a [TS]

  billion dollars you get around it if it's something that you want. [TS]

  Well that's that's not a given at all though because there's a lot of apps out there from very large companies where [TS]

  the apps just suck and where things just are never fixed. [TS]

  For example the mac apps store where Apple doesn't care about the mag apps right how much does Instagram care about the [TS]

  quality of their apps or completionist. But but it's the quality they are after is the main thing. [TS]

  Like that is Instagram they don't didn't want to use the Web site the Web site like the Instagram website used to be [TS]

  was like yeah yeah we have a Web site whatever it's like the app is Instagram. [TS]

  It's what was purchased for a billion dollars. [TS]

  If they're not doing a speech or it's because they don't feel like it's part of the product they want to make [TS]

  and buy just like Twitter does not want you to be a completionist they don't want you to look back they don't want you [TS]

  to feel like you have to catch up that they wanted to be more kind of dip in the stream look at it and come back out [TS]

  but Instagram is like I don't know it for some reason especially pictures. [TS]

  It just seems like there's so much easier to look at and skim [TS]

  and you'd be more likely to be annoyed if you missed one like you missed someone's tweet about what they had [TS]

  or breakfast who cares but it's on course the baby picture [TS]

  and you missed it like it's not the same as for a stream it's not the same as grandparents missing pictures of their [TS]

  grandkids It is just kind of like here's a bunch of photos from people I know and follow [TS]

  but I guess I'm just not the very few things that I that I'm interested in reading or following [TS]

  or doing stuff with great is going to dip my toe in and be like oh it's gone it's like it's like not watching T.V. [TS]

  Series like I just turn on T.V. and Whatever is on. [TS]

  I was watching middle episode of some show that I am watch anything about [TS]

  and that is forget about the next day of some of the shows I watch like never watching whole seasons never watching [TS]

  shows in sequence just whatever is going on right now and that that does not appeal to me [TS]

  and I can't think of any medium that appeals to me. Well it does appeal to me is our second sponsor of the week. [TS]

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  alternatives that are. [TS]

  All that you might be interested in [TS]

  and in my experience hovers version of this is the best one I've ever seen for sure. [TS]

  Very clean and simple website from being to [TS]

  and from you know the search to the management of the means after you buy them. [TS]

  So you want to mess around with weird complex interfaces [TS]

  and believe me if you have a registered domains you've probably seen your fair share of terrible web interfaces [TS]

  especially the ever done things like managing D.N.A.'s and everything else that you have to do new and undermanned [TS]

  and wow there's a lot of terrible register had terrible websites. Happy to say however is not one of them. [TS]

  Other Side is easy to use. Nicely designed and respectful of you. [TS]

  You also know that other registrars generally using them is unpleasant at best is usually a lot of weird tricky up [TS]

  cells and just kind of like weird ads and sleazy scams trying to get more money from you [TS]

  and Hubbard of the new stuff they just they respect you they do things the way that you wish everybody did things they [TS]

  also have this great service value transfer service where if you want to give them your logon to your old registrar [TS]

  they will if you want them to log into it and move over all of your names properly to hover so [TS]

  or whatever names you want [TS]

  and I can move things you know how to do so you can see you can you know make sure that all your D.N.A.'s settings go [TS]

  over correctly all your mail settings all the all the crazy stuff all your you know your little A records bring all [TS]

  those over properly without missing anything if you do want to mess that up. They also have amazing customer support. [TS]

  You can call them on the phone and a human being picks up the phone immediately and is able to help you. It's amazing. [TS]

  This sounds so basic [TS]

  but if you've ever called customer service for anything ever you'll realize how incredibly rare that is [TS]

  and how valuable that is. [TS]

  Go to hover dot com and that's H O V E R for our British listeners who don't understand what I'm saying. [TS]

  Go to Harvard and use offer code. [TS]

  Fish rules for ten percent off the rail and that is that is fish spelled the correct way with a P. H. [TS]

  At the beginning of it have so. H. I S. H. [TS]

  Rules fish rules because of course they do thank you very much to hover for sponsoring our show. [TS]

  Once again I feel compelled to note that despite that ridiculous coupon code hover really is fantastic so don't don't [TS]

  use that coupon code or don't hold the coupon code against them they really are amazing. [TS]

  If you want ten percent off this week you have to use that code you have to actually type that. [TS]

  You're welcome everybody. Sigh. [TS]

  And anyway John I want to know what you have on your i Phone's home screen [TS]

  and this is in part because beta works has released a call that was at home screen to seventy pound home screen. [TS]

  My bet it's a pound home screen. [TS]

  In any case this isn't flying around on Twitter where everyone is posting their home screens [TS]

  and I was curious John what do you have on your home screen of your i Phone I thought we talked about this last week. [TS]

  Get to it in a moment [TS]

  but first I want to talk about this application which I did download because of like you know everyone was downloading [TS]

  it and saying oh you know this home screen thing. So I downloaded the home screen app. [TS]

  I thought Marco complain if you can find it for the search [TS]

  and then the App Store who search for the exact apt aimin didn't go up with it which is great. [TS]

  Anyway I downloaded the app and it didn't want you to take a screenshot of your home screen which I did [TS]

  and I want to come back to the app and then it does something [TS]

  and then it says a great period your screenshot is shared. [TS]

  So I feel like I have now used this out for its intended purpose right I've taken a screenshot of my home screen. [TS]

  I've launched the app that told me it gave me confirmation message [TS]

  and says my screen shot is shared what it shows me on the screen of the app is a tiny picture of my home screen. [TS]

  Yep that's my home screen. [TS]

  It is now shared I have no idea what to do America did put up a little window that said Would you like tweet about this. [TS]

  No I would not like to tweet about and I didn't and that's it [TS]

  and now people like hey why isn't your home screen on there. [TS]

  Like well I shared it can people not find my home screen with I tweet about it I don't want to tweet about it. [TS]

  I don't understand application. [TS]

  All right do you understand [TS]

  and have you guys shared your home screen how how are other people able to see my home screen. [TS]

  So by default by the way I didn't build this app. [TS]

  Yes and I was not was not a mark of that but I have a complaint them directly. [TS]

  Yes So when I so beta works its data works is that and yes I sort of favored a beta works and I know them. [TS]

  I don't work there and [TS]

  when I tweeted my screenshot so by default it just shares it onto their website onto the home screen. [TS]

  I think it's home screen. [TS]

  Gaius right but how can other people see it so you can go there and like there's there's a U.R.L. [TS]

  If you if you open up the tweet you don't have to actually post the tweet you can give it a U.R.L. [TS]

  There is there is a public permalink on that domain where you can view it. [TS]

  The point of this is to tweet it though and and so it will. To clarify when I tweeted it I said I said in brackets. [TS]

  Shameless absolute promotion and what I was saying was I was was basically voting for overcast [TS]

  and Instapaper because they were on my home screen [TS]

  and one of the cool things about this site is that you can go to Home screen dot is that it that I already forgot that [TS]

  I mean that's what it says but for me anyway you can go to the site [TS]

  and it'll show you keep the tally of because it what it does is it looks at the picture of your home screen [TS]

  and then it actually uses image recognition to recognize with pretty good accuracy what apps those actually are [TS]

  and then it links to them you can where you can get to their i Tunes pages [TS]

  and then it keeps a tally of which after most popular so I was voting for my apps that are on my home screen. [TS]

  And that's why I said shameless. Absolute promotion not that I made the home screen app itself. [TS]

  Anyway whatever people want to pose it to them. [TS]

  I mean who knows a lot of people like to know that a lot of people to share their home screens a lot of people you know [TS]

  ask us or other people they know on Twitter what is your high. [TS]

  Green There used to be a whole site dedicated to it by somebody I forget who I think it was one of our like Apple [TS]

  blogger friends or a lot of people do that but in the app there is a Share button [TS]

  and it has tweet which I want to do open in Safari. [TS]

  I suppose they'll take me to the oral and confirm at the tech show where you can go [TS]

  and confirm that it got your you know the image right now and I did all that [TS]

  but other people can't find most people are asking me When are you going to share your home screen I feel like I did I [TS]

  think it should be easier for people to find my home screen not that they care like my history is my home screen is a [TS]

  mess. So if you want I was actually on it. [TS]

  I guess that I had to fill in a row of icons before I had to rearrange things to be in my thumb I'm not really happy [TS]

  with my home screen this is going to change [TS]

  but it's just the usual stuff like I don't know then exciting on here I got the main Every day was over. [TS]

  Overcast what are AFIC. You know Safari G. [TS]

  Mail i Pod which is from an email I've got you know on a doc I've got phone photos video music Dropbox on the App Store [TS]

  messages face time. Google Maps Apple Maps contacts like it's a start. [TS]

  Tail off after that I have the app [TS]

  and like in the spot that is always going to my friend screen had been doing that for the past three years. [TS]

  The hell of it really. [TS]

  Why is that there is it to watch the videos now I don't use it [TS]

  but like every year I replace it with a new version of the app like rather than having to rearrange everything [TS]

  and essentially a placeholder for itself. [TS]

  So so you have an app on your home screen that by definition you don't use for fifty one weeks out of every year. [TS]

  Well I use it on an offer like this tons of apps [TS]

  and here that I don't use all the time like how that's like a prime spot it's a great read and some scanning range too. [TS]

  Well I don't I don't have it I haven't I haven't far away evident a bad spot right in the middle row that's far away [TS]

  from my thumb and it's like I have to reach anything on that edge you know. [TS]

  I suppose I could swap over settings [TS]

  or whatever like a lot of a lot of my problems do with muscle memory for where things used to be [TS]

  when I can reach the whole screen with my thumb. [TS]

  I still keep reaching for upper left for Safari but it's not there anymore. [TS]

  A student far away but I still reach past where it is. [TS]

  So I have to I have to adjust things in the Google authenticator I don't use that very often [TS]

  but I do want it on my home screen so this is not enough apps that I use frequently enough to be deserving to be in the [TS]

  home screens and it's like maybe I should movies off to find icon to look nicer [TS]

  but I'm really not happy the way the thing looks I really don't like the Instagram I kind of still look like I was [TS]

  sixteen is kind of my home screen this is the most baffling home screen it's not a hunter [TS]

  and a mess like this is not the way I want it. [TS]

  Very few things the only things that I'm sure about more [TS]

  or less are Twitter African overcast which are really the main two out to use every day. [TS]

  G amounts of Sorry used to be in totally different places I keep reaching for their old positions [TS]

  and messages is kind of OK I didn't use it as much before I had an i Phone I mean riposte [TS]

  but not a lot I do still check and [TS]

  and the i Tunes store like do you are you buying new album a lot that's on your home screen. [TS]

  I want the app store on Main page because I do I do manual updates apps store yes but the [TS]

  but the purple i Tunes store I do in-store. [TS]

  Unlike starts the pay off was like What else should I have an hour so I kind of like the official Apple stuff you know [TS]

  like the main because I don't you know I don't use a lot of these up laws so I just I don't know I have to sort it out. [TS]

  This is this is worse than the camera sound effect. [TS]

  Well I mean I just moved to new device my i Pod touch screen I was very happy with it here [TS]

  and I'm kind of lost until I figure it out [TS]

  and the subsequent screens are even worse it was kind of a mess if you only get one more row it can't like you can't [TS]

  blink [TS]

  and no it's not it's the row in the sizing the sizing through of all my all my good positions of everything it's like [TS]

  well now that is a bad position I would never [TS]

  but like calender in the upper left I don't use it at all that these three were Safari is impossible to read. [TS]

  So I you know I have to put something that I basically don't want and why is calendar on the front page. [TS]

  I guess so I can see the date I guess because it's the official count I don't use Apple's counter I use Google Calendar. [TS]

  See the thing the thing that drives me nuts about your on screen which are JONES He pointed out to me is you made the [TS]

  rookie i Phone. [TS]

  Your mistake of having contacts [TS]

  and phone on the same screen because you can do to the best of my knowledge anyway you can do everything. [TS]

  Contact everything you can do in contacts you can do in the phone app so having both is just completely wasteful [TS]

  redundant but I don't use either one of those apps when I don't use the phone or your contacts. [TS]

  That's something like mad people make fun of Windows people for maximizing all their windows i think i Phone People can [TS]

  make fun of former i Pod touch people for having the contact [TS]

  and the only reason it's there is because it's like an official Apple app that can see that that actually contains some [TS]

  data that I might ever want to look at I understand you control the phone but I don't use the phone. [TS]

  I don't use one of my own. Why would I ever going to contact that what would I do there. [TS]

  Like fungus [TS]

  and as my messages are doing her messages I'm going to call them I do it from you know like I'm not you know I'm not [TS]

  using it's just there it's there for the same reason notes is like what a health note there this is the official Apple [TS]

  I have fifty note that while it's on the front page because it's the Apple one I don't know. [TS]

  So so to address your what I think is the most egregious icon taking up space in your home screen which is of the [TS]

  Debussy one one of the big advantages of having a partially [TS]

  or completely empty bottom row on your home screen is that you can then place temporary use icons in that bottom row. [TS]

  So like whenever I go to a conference [TS]

  or anything I always put conference related apps in the bottom row whenever I'm going on a trip. [TS]

  If there's like there's like travel related apps for the trip I'm going on to put those in the bottom row. [TS]

  I don't like that idea. [TS]

  But running a boarding house here you have you know I'm going to I'm going to eventually get my home screen out of the [TS]

  way I like if I go it will settle down I had many many years to hone my I thought that's never changed after many years [TS]

  we get that for my grid I'll settle it down I mean I don't know like I really disappointed the home screen is so damn [TS]

  big that just seems like there's just not enough icons that I care about enough to be there you know I guess I do you [TS]

  know it's really just that little room. [TS]

  So three years into the baber overcast Twitter a vague letter press the one game I still play a lot [TS]

  and I get Instagram like that's and then everything else is just like men [TS]

  and I guess Safari any of them people ask why have videos and music in Doc videos like A.Z. [TS]

  I do watch I have a bunch a little like old T.V. [TS]

  Shows and my things in movies and stuff in there you know because I do watch things like that [TS]

  or more likely open something for the kids so they can look at or whatever music I don't use either [TS]

  but its allies out there because it's like if you look at the official like the doc I don't think is a great place I [TS]

  never thought the doc was a great place like people put your most important thing the doc there will always be there. [TS]

  I don't think it's good for them reaching you know I mean that used to be better for sure. [TS]

  So I never thought it was good I always thought they were like overcast essentially got the prime spot it overcomes [TS]

  where the right of every day I was in the podcast in the car you know overcast of the first thing you know I want to [TS]

  remember. I want overcast so they were both like in the hot spots where I really got Safari G. [TS]

  Mail messages that drives Ikea missing them I keep going to their old spot so I really need to do to make you know [TS]

  messages I don't know. I'll figure it out eventually and I don't like how it looks either. [TS]

  Aesthetically it's kind of gross. It's got to run. [TS]

  When we had your home screen on the topic list I never imagined we'd get this much enjoyment out of it I think. [TS]

  My home's going to dump everyone who hates this topic I agree with you because the only reason I even downloaded a home [TS]

  screen yes is because we were talking about it like I thought it was a little bit silly. [TS]

  I mean it's mildly intriguing to see what somebody puts on their home screen [TS]

  but I don't know it's it was like one of those silly fads that just flew by Twitter [TS]

  and I was you know I was seeing thousands of homes screens [TS]

  but I don't know seeing it how unbelievably bad you are at managing your own home screen does make me feel better about [TS]

  myself a little bit my nose ring looks better than both of yours though Marcus is a ghost town like just he's got his. [TS]

  The DOD Instapaper which truncates the name that's just I mean the dot is bad enough [TS]

  but then having the DOT actually push the name out like the Blue Dot does sometimes that that's And you're always going [TS]

  to get a look at that all day [TS]

  and then that the Instagram is screwing up your home screen to look at all the other nice Iowa seventy style icons that [TS]

  all those on Instagram. [TS]

  They're saying hey look at me I'm from Iowa six now good Casey's looks like an explosion of bad clip art like I have to [TS]

  wrap in front I don't like baby connect it has it has it exactly that I don't think we can all one is like we just took [TS]

  our logo insurance down that's an icon right guys. Money well not too hot looking fast X. [TS]

  Does not have feet and in front of three folders that is three folders [TS]

  but an empty rows I need these things to be two taps away at all times but I'm like A [TS]

  but I think if I use fantastic I did research on anybody you know if I tried searching [TS]

  and starless is futile I want to have read all the stupid description that are disclosing them. [TS]

  I was looking for a counter app that would show me my Google account. Does that not exist does Google want to have one. [TS]

  Now if Google if your Google account is one of the official accounts in your phone is the only way to do it. [TS]

  I believe that's right as I don't want to because I don't want to do that. I was just hoping my like there's a G. [TS]

  Mail out that just says I'm an app and I would ask you anyway whatever I cannot stand like native vs web [TS]

  but I figured I was looking at what you know calendars fiber fantastic our many other much better counter up that maybe [TS]

  I have a fighting chance of actually using. [TS]

  If they would connect directly to my goal counter without having the ads [TS]

  or the calendar thing in you know in my cloud of him so much as sunrise will do what I saw I saw a couple in their own [TS]

  truth is I really don't look at my calendar on my phone so I don't know Mary. [TS]

  So why are you looking for a figure now maybe like I'll be on the phone with somebody [TS]

  and want to look at a calendar thing at the same time I don't know I'm. [TS]

  I'm just trying to figure out how my usage might change now that I have a net connection everywhere instead of because [TS]

  previously you know I would never need to do that because I'd be in my house with wife [TS]

  or are at work it wife I usually means I'm near my computer [TS]

  and I can look at Google Calendar on the big you know the web version which is what I use this is [TS]

  and I think one of the reasons why I like this. This does seem stupid. [TS]

  I agree the whole service devoted to sharing your home screen that does basically nothing else that does sound stupid [TS]

  but it's it's like looking at people's houses. [TS]

  It's like you kind of it's kind of interesting you can tell a lot about a person by what they have in their home screen [TS]

  how it's arranged maybe what their background is where you go for mine is this person just got an i Phone That's very [TS]

  true like I'm intrigued John like you have a rotation lock on because you know I imagine you like to be controlled to [TS]

  control and that factor but your battery is not fully charged. [TS]

  And I'm kind of surprised that you let And of course you know your horizon and wife I cover you're both kind of weak [TS]

  and so I'm kind of surprised you let that out. [TS]

  So my battery is plenty charge like a brand new i Phone six that is a long battery life they're the horizon signal the [TS]

  cell signal my house is terrible for either of the best in terms of signals on some carriers can even get a signal [TS]

  inside my house that is why I have a horizon i Phone So two bars I'll take it. [TS]

  Casey I just noticed on your home screen that the wonderful new fast text icon is not being recognized because that [TS]

  version is not yet in the App Store. You should really fix that problem. [TS]

  I know don't get me started this event dot next to it doesn't really do the truncate for the dot [TS]

  and like that I don't like that with the Blue Dot too [TS]

  but like you don't think that like there's plenty of room for the full name [TS]

  and the DOT it should know if you do a better job of like if there is room like next to day one the different things [TS]

  like this room. You could show the rest of the rapture if that got over on the end of the world. [TS]

  Well and they also could just put the dot on the corner of the icon the way. Badges are done. [TS]

  But maybe I'm a bit on the left corner so that doesn't hide the badge. [TS]

  I don't understand who the baddest for it like for people who have bad apps but don't know they have beta apps. [TS]

  They forget which one of the beta names are final sponsor this week is back blaze that place is unlimited [TS]

  and throttled uncomplicated online backup and just five dollars a month unlimited space. It's really a fantastic deal. [TS]

  I highly recommend that you use online backup there's so many reasons why you should. [TS]

  There are so many classes of problems that online backup completely protect you from like you know if all your backups [TS]

  for all your stuff are directly connected to your computer [TS]

  or if they're in your house then there's things like you know power surges fires floods all sorts of environmental [TS]

  problems that can happen to your house that could wipe out all of your data at once even your backups with back plays. [TS]

  That's a that's a thing of the past you're you're paying them to manage all this for you you don't have to worry about [TS]

  disks failing if if you if you computer doesn't back up properly to back please after a short amount of time it will [TS]

  email you and warn you hey something's wrong we haven't heard from you in a while. [TS]

  So many problems protect you from they have these great mobile apps also for i OS [TS]

  and Android where you can browse your files right from your device you know that the files on your home computer so if [TS]

  you go on a trip or something you forgot a file you can access it there you can also share the files [TS]

  or your device very very handy back please was founded by X. Apple engineers they respect the Mac. [TS]

  Quite a lot [TS]

  and their app is fully native on the mac this is not like a weird Java applets some other weird runtime it is a native [TS]

  app. [TS]

  Iran's very well I've backed up many terabytes of stuff to back plays over the years I've used them for ever before [TS]

  they were a sponsor he was even then and I use them for my computer my wife's computer my mom's computer. [TS]

  It's great this weekend for Thanksgiving if you're going home. Set up on your parent's computers. [TS]

  It's fantastic because then it. [TS]

  If he doesn't hear from your parents the reason why little email you if you're the account holder so you can like then [TS]

  go help your parents say hey your backups not working let me go let me go fix it back please i love it it is on [TS]

  throttled you can upload as quickly as you can. [TS]

  I've I've had issues with a few other providers with that and I've never had an issue with back please. [TS]

  It really is simple it really is just five bucks a month unlimited no gimmicks no add ons. [TS]

  Five bucks a month for unlimited disk space and it's really great. [TS]

  I love back please go to back Blaze dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

  I definitely think you should use online backup and if you're going to use one I say back please is by far the best. [TS]

  And I'd say that even if they weren't paying me to say it [TS]

  and in fact before they were paying me to say it I was saying that.. [TS]

  Anyway thank you very much to back please for sponsoring the show to back please dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

  All right I'd like to yell at Marco for a little bit gladly. Where's my freaking overcast America. [TS]

  Well before you go over that why do you want a makeover guest. [TS]

  OK So the reason I want a makeover test app is because I actually do a lot of my podcast listening at work [TS]

  and if I'm going to do that I'd like to do it on my mac because it seems silly in my personal opinion to have your [TS]

  phone or your i Pad out just for the purposes of listening to a podcast [TS]

  when I have a perfectly functioning computer right in front of me. That that would do the trick. [TS]

  And yes I am aware that overcast has a web app and yes it is very good. No it's not. Well I mean it's pretty good. [TS]

  No it's really not. It's pretty terrible dead either way. [TS]

  But now that I've become addicted to smart speed I must have that in my life and I can't get that through H.T.M.L. [TS]

  Five without you spent going away for ten years and you know reinventing half of the Internet. [TS]

  Oh I want to know where my overcast for makup. [TS]

  Please OK So first of all you know there's a couple of cases to be made here a couple different options to take. [TS]

  Obviously I should make the web better. That is that is point number one. [TS]

  And if the weather is better it will read it will remove a lot of the reasons why people might want to back up not all [TS]

  of them granted and not some big ones. But but it will remove many of the reasons why people want America. [TS]

  It would also be a heck of a lot easier in many regards than making the whole MCE special because I've never made [TS]

  America before so I don't know anything about like all of Africa its intricacies and weirdnesses and limitations and [TS]

  and so I would have to learn all that from almost from scratch like you know so I'm sure some of us knowledge of carry [TS]

  over but not a whole lot. I thought you did read America OK I should clarify. [TS]

  I wrote one mac app the tumbler backup app it was terrible it was very clearly my first mac I've ever written [TS]

  and I spent maybe two hours on it and most of the actual work was done in a P.H.P. [TS]

  File that was embedded in the Abbott self. Are you really serious. I am totally serious. [TS]

  God orders because it was like connecting the tumbler A.P.I. [TS]

  In the download and making all the directories and everything and I had actually already written the P.H.P. [TS]

  Script just for my own personal use to back up my own tumble log [TS]

  and I asked a one day hey can I make a backup app because people keep asking me about this [TS]

  and you know let me just make a mac appen it so I just made like a wrapper that wrapped executing the P.H.P. [TS]

  Script and that's it. Anyway so I I basically have no Mac's knowledge so that that's the reason. [TS]

  Well that's a reason so Another reason is how do I put this gently. You don't you just let er rip. [TS]

  Look at other apps that are made by individual developers in a pod cast R.S.S. Kind. [TS]

  Space look at other apps that started out on i Phone then went to i Pad and then went to MAC [TS]

  and then for many of them development basically stopped and so I see this in a few absolute that I used to use [TS]

  and it kind of scares me because it clearly I mean I don't know I don't know what a human story is I haven't looked [TS]

  into any of these in detail but it sure looks like when you [TS]

  when you go to that third platform such as the mac is so different from my US It sure looks like a lot of developers [TS]

  just get stuck because there's just so much to keep up with at that point then you have these three different you know [TS]

  POS with these three different code bases you know these all this like different platforms moving different times you [TS]

  know as a platform advance you have to try to keep up with them [TS]

  and it just seems like the mac app is like the kiss of death for indie developers who started I was at the Dell I make [TS]

  a Mac like. [TS]

  Inevitably it doesn't seem like they sell very well I haven't I never heard of anybody saying they made a ton of money [TS]

  off their mac apps who you know after they came to my US first in this case I mean obviously if you're like making like [TS]

  you know productivity professional software that's a different story but. [TS]

  But in this kind of space I haven't heard of great success there. [TS]

  So it just it just I'm very scared of it basically bog me down weighing me down [TS]

  and making it very hard for me to keep everything updated so that's that's a that's a major point. [TS]

  I also I don't think over cash is really making enough money where it makes sense for me to pay somebody else to make [TS]

  it and I don't think it would. [TS]

  I don't think it would bring in enough money itself really to justify the expense of somebody else making it for me so [TS]

  I think it's going to just I'm going to have to make it [TS]

  and so the again that just that just scares me for me from just like a total engineering Ben with the perspective that [TS]

  that is scary. The other thing is like how much of a gain am I getting from the web app as a result. [TS]

  So to me the big things are. [TS]

  Our smart speedin often file saving and those are those are both very big things [TS]

  and if you have things like like for instance I have I have an hour I don't think I was of the publicly before [TS]

  but I have a file upload feature and it's only able to my account right now and I develop this long time [TS]

  and it's probably been there for a year [TS]

  and I was initially going to launch with file upload support where you have a special folder just like your inbox [TS]

  or your uploads and you upload files to it and then you can play arbitrary files. [TS]

  This is useful for me because I record the Howard Stern show and I can play the Howard Stern files [TS]

  and I pod cast out which is which is very convenient. [TS]

  I built the whole feature is there it's built out on S three and I was a little scare with business concerns [TS]

  and things like you know piracy concerns [TS]

  and like you know takedown notices like if I don't have to be responsible for these files for both the costs [TS]

  and liabilities of hosting people's uploads that would certainly be ideal. [TS]

  Do you do you see when I [TS]

  when i Cloud Drive was announced I thought you know what I'm just not going to release that S three upload feature that [TS]

  I made. [TS]

  Ideally I'm going to rebuild this feature using i Cloud Drive [TS]

  and very easily also support Dropbox like if it's if it's easy to also supporting the OSS that use a Viking picker [TS]

  which it probably is. I could do stuff like that so that is a way better feature. [TS]

  That being said that will never work in the web app. So there are certain things like hands off. I can do from the web. [TS]

  Others you can do handoff from web apps to I O. S. F. [TS]

  and Vice versa so I could do a handoff playback but it isn't as good or as easy from the web [TS]

  and there's a few little gotchas. [TS]

  The Web I'm always facing issues of like different browsers being a pain in the butt about something at one of the [TS]

  biggest problems actually [TS]

  and this could end up being really problematic depending on the direction that web browsers go is mixed content [TS]

  security. You know right now it's considered bad for S S. Well if you have a page conservative or H.D. P.S. [TS]

  That includes any assets that are not served over to B.S. [TS]

  The problem is overcast does not host the pod cast files because that would be insanely expensive [TS]

  and bring a lot of other problems like lack of control lack of download stats from the publishers things like that. [TS]

  So most Pontus files are hosted on regular D.P. Links that are not if you keep Yes because who cares. [TS]

  So I my web interface is all secure so almost every overpass player page has this mixed security problem [TS]

  and that prevents a lot of things for example it also prevents me from ever making a Twitter card that includes the [TS]

  audio player feature which is really annoying that I would love for overcast Twitter links to have like you know a [TS]

  built in player in a cart if anybody uses the card if I don't know what it works. [TS]

  But Twitter cards are required to be all it should be as including all the resources they load including the media they [TS]

  load so I can't do that unless I proxy all those files which again is very expensive [TS]

  and has a lot of problems associated with it. [TS]

  I'm also completely like held at the whims of browser developers like it let's say chrome decides. [TS]

  Oh we think something is bad and we're going to stop supporting it next week because of security or whatever. [TS]

  If that something is like some kind of behavioral detail of the H.T.M.L. [TS]

  Five audio player or something like that I'm just screwed. [TS]

  So there's all these problems with with the web app approach that it's not worth killing the web app. [TS]

  It's not worth having. Having overcast on MAC be the only way you could play over files on a Mac. [TS]

  But there's a lot of reasons why a web app might not be the probably shouldn't be the only way you can play things you [TS]

  know that make sense like relying on on a web app force for the kind of functionality I do I mean if if you make [TS]

  something else that's a total story but if you rely on. [TS]

  I'm on serving mixed security level resources with this cutting edge H M O five audio player [TS]

  and if I if I would try to build in things like effect [TS]

  and speed into it which some of that can be done with some of the new smart speeds still can't which is unfortunate. [TS]

  It would have to be written in Java Script might be horribly. [TS]

  Anyway the point is I'm relying on a lot of like little edge cases and cutting edge features [TS]

  and Web browsers to make this work at all and that's not a good place to be in because that could change at any time. [TS]

  I also I also just hate web development. [TS]

  So it's from having done so much of in the last you know fifteen years or whatever. [TS]

  I'm so tired of web development like it is not the idea of making a really amazing javascript player for the web does [TS]

  not interest me very much. [TS]

  I will eventually have to make it better and I I was actually gonna start doing that today but I got sidetracked [TS]

  but I haven't really answered your question at all [TS]

  but I should give you some idea over my head is on this I have not started a mac app [TS]

  and I still not sure if I'm going to make one. [TS]

  Once you do just like a little player app for the mac you know hand off [TS]

  or otherwise you're not going to you're not going to like make a mac version of the entire [TS]

  or forget that where you can see all your playlists and had them [TS]

  or whatever just a simple way to say somehow you will find your way to the thing that you want to play somewhere else [TS]

  and you will say plays on my mac [TS]

  and that will lead to Casey you know use his play pause button on his keyboard to you know like just just a playback [TS]

  and I guess you have to either hand off on the web handle from the I.O.'s app or something similar [TS]

  but really what you'd be handing off as is the U.R.L. [TS]

  Then once you're into the mac app is like play this now and it would I guess have to show a title [TS]

  and get some information maybe shows Mark but it would save you from having to do with the you know the full U.I. [TS]

  and It would so clearly just be like a player. Yeah but at that point like like why half assed. [TS]

  Like what like if I if that's all I'm going to do. [TS]

  When I don't know I guess anything is better than the current web app. [TS]

  I mean what do you do then is it on the web app which you'd like well the way that might work for you [TS]

  but if it doesn't work for you click this button and open you know whatever you know X. [TS]

  Overcast whatever your elbow launched the overcast app and installed and you know with your realm [TS]

  and you'll be off you know like I don't know it's all cases from the way like he doesn't need the full overcast app on [TS]

  his back he just wants to be able to play without it you know independently [TS]

  and I guess maybe you would be like what would I do [TS]

  when I got to the end of the track would you send to the entire playlist full of yourselves in mid-air. [TS]

  Where did you know when to be slaves kind of like your mac is the watch [TS]

  and the phone in a thrilling overcast nobody like slaved out to communicating across a hand-off initiated connection to [TS]

  the future with the next track is well what I mean ultimately like all of my sinking code that's all not compatible. [TS]

  All of the audio processing code that's all not compatible. [TS]

  All I'm really talking about is I'd have to basically write the entire U.I. From scratch but the U.I. [TS]

  Doesn't necessarily have to be that complicated I.O.'s it's complicated because I do a lot of customization. [TS]

  Like a lot of appearance customization to give my you know my fonts and my styles [TS]

  and everything on it was ten maybe I don't need to do that I don't know I have I have looked at any of this. [TS]

  Well you got to do it. I can factory did and port you I get to the MAC first right. [TS]

  That's a pretty big pre-requisite I'm not sure I'm a dude. Larry didn't already it's done. [TS]

  I thought they I thought they abandon it because nobody was interested. [TS]

  I know probably has a ridiculous peer I'm going to try to make em like you think you're going to save time [TS]

  but it's like well beside ourselves of the main pain now. Right exactly. [TS]

  So anyway that's that's why I don't have one yet and I might have one in the future. [TS]

  There's a bunch of us I want to do first like there [TS]

  and this is the problem too it's like do I work on a mac app which will probably be a six month distraction at least. [TS]

  Or do I spend that six months making the i OS app even better. [TS]

  Do I do to you know tackle some big problems like streaming media like chat. [TS]

  Your support of you know things people ask for chapters where unless there's a so little demand for it [TS]

  but the people who do demand there are very loud but there's very very little demand for it in reality [TS]

  and very few pockets even have chapters. So that's that's kind of low on the list but like streaming. [TS]

  That's a big deal. [TS]

  That's something that I really need to do because that makes that makes some other nice features better and possible. [TS]

  So for instance let's say you have you're playing something on your phone and I implement hand off [TS]

  and you hand it off to America or vice versa. [TS]

  Let's say that the app that is receiving the handoff has not yet downloaded that file. [TS]

  If I don't have streaming it that sucks because that means that you handed it off and then you have to sit there [TS]

  and wait while that entire file download before you can play any of it. [TS]

  That's not very good at the Lansing thing where I try to send it quickly but that's also hacky and not great. [TS]

  Ideally it would have streaming so that you can click any over crash share link any handoff like that [TS]

  and just start playing the file if you're an Internet connection which if you're receiving head of stuff [TS]

  and presenter you probably do so just are playing the file you know just start of a certain time stamp evenly if you [TS]

  start in the middle that's fantastic if I can do that. [TS]

  That's very hard to do but you know that's that's what I actually want. [TS]

  And there's so many features that are kind of being held back by streaming that's why streaming is like is a thing on [TS]

  tackling next I kind of wrote some of it and then got sidetracked with other problems and [TS]

  and there were going to be something like that you know next year [TS]

  when I was nine comes out maybe I was nine adds more things I want to do you know [TS]

  when I ever going to have time to make an entire Macca this is this is what worries me and [TS]

  when I look around I see like the kiss of death of mac apps from all these other indie developers. [TS]

  It doesn't look like a good idea to do. [TS]

  I am intellectually I'm interested in doing it I I am I would like to do it but it doesn't look like I should do it. [TS]

  Three And I think the problem that you're running into is you have Marco myopia her myopia whatever Anyway the point is [TS]

  because this is not something that you necessarily feel is missing from your world. [TS]

  It's never going to happen and that's what that makes sense I mean I don't I don't fault you for that [TS]

  but I like what the i Pad app have happened if you didn't kind of accidentally make it a few weeks ago like what was [TS]

  the genesis of the i Pad app remind me there was a bug with using storyboards to launch images that would enable I've [TS]

  had sizing and i Pad mode on apps that were not actually i Pad apps right. [TS]

  And do you think you would have still had an i Pad app version if it wasn't for that. Probably not yet. Exactly. [TS]

  OK so that's what I'm kind of driving at is the i Pad thing didn't really scratch an itch for you. [TS]

  And so the only reason it exists today is because well it kind of accidentally farted its way into existence [TS]

  and I think the mac app again because it doesn't really scratch an itch for you. [TS]

  It's always going to be a lower priority. [TS]

  That makes sense because if it doesn't really scratch in it you're not going to care as much as you would if it was [TS]

  scratching an itch. [TS]

  I don't think it's so much about what he wants he is trying to address a market he doesn't like is market demand. [TS]

  Correct me if I'm wrong Margaret is not just like Oh why wouldn't you therefore lie if fifty percent of your users were [TS]

  clamoring for a MAC after you'd be considering it much more strongly whether you use it or not. [TS]

  Yeah so it's complicated so first of all there is certainly the calculus that goes on about like a cable. [TS]

  How many people if they even want this and use this [TS]

  and you know is there any money in it is there going to be any meaningful user growth as a result of it. [TS]

  And you compare that versus how much time it takes to implement the i Pad version I don't think is doing much for me [TS]

  long term because I just don't think like I think pod cast most people who listen to podcasts probably listen on their [TS]

  phone I'm pretty sure other people discover this information already. [TS]

  I don't think this is an outrageous guess the i Pad. [TS]

  Was only worth doing because it was relatively easy [TS]

  and is not going to impose a massive ongoing cost of maintenance with things changing the way I did it was was fairly [TS]

  low effort I did and if you I was a split view so I'm doing a lot of like Apple stock U.I. Stuff. [TS]

  It is never going to win me a design award or anything like that. [TS]

  No one is ever going to look at the overcast i Pad app [TS]

  and say this is an amazing i Pad app this really shows are for the i Pad can do. [TS]

  It doesn't it's not that's not why I made it and I [TS]

  and there isn't enough of a market on the i Pad as far as I know to justify doing that for this type of app. [TS]

  So I did what made sense because basically it was cheap and easy. The MAC a totally different story than the Mac. [TS]

  I'm guessing the size of the of the possible audience of people who would play pod cast on a mac with this with this [TS]

  app is probably about the same size as the i Pad audience but it's way harder to actually get there. [TS]

  It takes way more effort because I have to rewrite the entire U.I. [TS]

  From scratch and maintain it over time [TS]

  and deal with you know I like it so it's so nice being able to you know listen to core intuition [TS]

  and hear dinner jacket mitten Reese talk about like how terrible the mac apps to being sudden weak with some terrible [TS]

  signing bug or something like that. [TS]

  It's so nice to listen to that and know that I don't have to worry about having a maggot store [TS]

  and the fact is if I did this I'd be in the back up story I want to use things like like hand often [TS]

  and i Cloud sinking and stuff like that like for certain things that make things better. [TS]

  So it's going to the mac would be a very expensive proposition in time and an ongoing maintenance [TS]

  and I am very doubtful that enough of a market there exists to make that worth the loss [TS]

  or stand it I don't know it's hard to say because I am I'm no more convinced that I am right and also you are wrong. [TS]

  You know I. [TS]

  I know I want America really badly [TS]

  but for all I know I'm the only one who a very well could be that I'm steering your directly into financial ruin. [TS]

  You know figuratively speaking. [TS]

  But man I feel like it would be relatively good differentiators well because something what has America just down to [TS]

  South America. They definitely do. I don't know I don't know if it's a caste. I'm not down. [TS]

  Definitely does I think insta cast might think if they asked us [TS]

  and underscore released a pod Wrangler Macapp I thought in a better capacity [TS]

  and it was very much what you're describing visually I mean it was super simple very stark nothing to nothing too [TS]

  exciting but it was functional and I got the job done and I miss having that quite a bit [TS]

  and I'm not saying I'm the only one but I may be the only one at the same time. [TS]

  Now Marco How do you listen to podcasts as you're listening to fish as you work. Yeah I listen to music as I work. [TS]

  It's often fish. You're you're when you're in from the computer my point is you're not listening to podcasts. [TS]

  Most of the time right. [TS]

  I I almost never listen to podcasts on my mac [TS]

  or any mac which is one of the reasons why I have not been motivated to either make this or make the web better. [TS]

  Right that's exactly my point earlier. [TS]

  Yeah exactly right I mean that is that if the biggest reason honestly it isn't it isn't about market demand the biggest [TS]

  reason is that I don't care. [TS]

  There are features I would like to enable that would be cool like you know like I mentioned some of the cool hand off [TS]

  stuff. I would love to do stuff like that in a mac app. [TS]

  But ultimately I would very rarely use my own mac app as far as like as far as I can predict because I don't listen [TS]

  about as well I work because I can't I can't constrain both you know and I don't I don't like about that. [TS]

  Now let me ask you honestly do you have any interest in people tweeting at you [TS]

  or anything like that if they are interested in the MAC Apple or is that not going to change your mind. [TS]

  I mean people have tweeted me about tweeted me about that before. [TS]

  Whenever I bring up a topic whenever someone else does I always get people saying well I buy it [TS]

  and that that is nice to hear. That does help but it doesn't really indicate to me how much of a market there is. [TS]

  It just says like the market is probably greater than zero [TS]

  but that doesn't really mean like hearing hearing from a handful of people on Twitter does not really tell me. [TS]

  I mean you know this will probably bring in you know fifty grand a year [TS]

  or something like It doesn't he doesn't know tell me something I need to know [TS]

  or like this would this might bring in twenty thousand new users a year [TS]

  or if it doesn't it doesn't tell me any of that information is going to charge ten bucks for it. [TS]

  Nine and nine Well that's the other thing. [TS]

  So maybe I could you know make more money with it it would be because it's bigger on the screen [TS]

  and you know it is in square inches the more money you can charge that seems to be the logic in some people's heads. [TS]

  Sure yeah. [TS]

  However if I'm going to charge good money for it [TS]

  and I probably wouldn't I probably wouldn't make it if I wasn't in a charge. [TS]

  You know another five [TS]

  or ten bucks for the unlock for the things like smart screen stuff want to charge good money for Apple I want to be [TS]

  really good. I don't want to charge money for a terrible app. And so like it like I'm not. [TS]

  Again this is going back to the have I think I'm not going to make a terrible mac app that has almost no features with [TS]

  a five dollar an hour purchase to unlock it almost no features like that's that's not a very that's not I want to do [TS]

  that I would feel bad doing that but I'm also not going to make one that I don't feel good charging for [TS]

  and to release it for free and have that be have at it. [TS]

  So if I'm going to do I want I want to do at least a reasonable job. I don't it doesn't have to be like amazing again. [TS]

  It could be the same approach as the i Pad where it's like I'm going for pure utility value doesn't need to be fancy [TS]

  with you I will never win an Apple design award or anything like that. [TS]

  Most people would never even notice or care that there would never get any recognition whatsoever. [TS]

  But I would at least want it to be. [TS]

  Functional and to have you know the basic features of the i Phone app only has three little the navigation. [TS]

  I mean it's not like it's not like it's a very complicated U.I. [TS]

  So I don't I mean I can do a basic little three pane kind of thing I don't know. [TS]

  It makes sense I just don't want it to make sense I want you to say you know what. That's a brilliant idea. [TS]

  I will do it tonight. [TS]

  No I mean I would honestly I would like to do it because I'm curious about massive Elm [TS]

  and this is one of the reasons why every time there's a new ten release I hope for some kind of bring over of something [TS]

  from you I kid into into Africa it [TS]

  or some kind of like replacement to abc that is more like you like it because there are so many like pretty fundamental [TS]

  differences between the two between the way they work that you know and I don't know how hard it's going to be. [TS]

  I've never tried really but I know it's going to be really irritating [TS]

  and it's going to slow me down a lot as I learn all these flaws and limitations of apt get [TS]

  and all these little weird behavioral details and differences [TS]

  and I think it would you know not only it would enable some of my laziness [TS]

  but I think it would serve Apple well to reduce that barrier between the two to make to make development for the Mac. [TS]

  More like development for us [TS]

  and I'm not saying bring over all of you like it does all the work it doesn't make sense on the Mac. [TS]

  And there's a lot of things that the macros don't mix and you like it. [TS]

  So I'm not saying we have to be unified but to to at least be closer together to be more similar than they are now. [TS]

  Because right now like like the prospect of developing a mac app for i OS developer has all this expensive [TS]

  and all those risk I was just talking about. [TS]

  And if Apple can do anything to reduce that barrier to reduce the expense to make it less overall additional time to [TS]

  maintain a mac app then there will be more mac apps and people will be happier with their Macs [TS]

  and Apple will make more money on the mac apps store and all these benefits. [TS]

  So I really hope they're going to direction sometime soon so. [TS]

  Maybe I should start a mac apps of they can then make everything easier a year later. [TS]

  You know flea thanks was worth responses this week. Overcast for Mac. [TS]

  They sort of respond to the street studio neat hover and back ways and we will see you next week. [TS]

  Now the show is over they didn't even mean to be in this it was accidental accidental down because it was there [TS]

  and you are sitting down and said to that list and I had extremely random no. [TS]

  You know what I think a little sliver of me kind of wants an overcast Macca. [TS]

  I know that's more than just a little sliver. [TS]

  I kind of I'm intrigued by the goal for the oh the car the Volkswagen Golf goal. [TS]

  I thought it'd go off to found another hover golf golf. [TS]

  Yeah I think we did find another hover to say in the south of here in winter we say golf. Fine. So some of the Gulf. [TS]

  Are you know a Southern name or maybe you're becoming European because Americans don't like hot hatches. [TS]

  Oh I hate hatchbacks I didn't go far. I don't know I don't know that's the problem. [TS]

  I mean intervention quickly you know [TS]

  and I like aspects I don't like hatchbacks either even though on paper they make a ton of sense because you know [TS]

  there's plenty of room well plenty issue of room scar looks like it has rebel bands wrapped around its wheels. [TS]

  Like the tires are so low profile if I heard it hurting my butt just looking at the picture. That's marvelous. [TS]

  Maybe that's a concept you definitely could not drive that in the state of New York. [TS]

  But our roads are not back and I kind of want one [TS]

  and I really like that blue actually the thing that they do all the pressure that's in the problem that you have with [TS]

  this I think is that while it would be small [TS]

  and fun it would most likely be a giant step down in so many interior amenities [TS]

  and interior walls things that are not so sure I think you might have ruined yourself with your current car [TS]

  and it's going to be hard to step down to this man looks like the inside of a hatchback a lot it was shiny stuff it's a [TS]

  little shiny or I will I will give you that but it doesn't look that dissimilar from what I've got now. [TS]

  What's the deal with flat bottom steering wheels. That's so like you think your legs scrunched up more I don't know. [TS]

  My theory [TS]

  and there are others correct someone correct me is that five times their wheels have their origin in race cars where [TS]

  they cram the driver into some little tiny thing [TS]

  and there's not room for a full steering wheel so they had a flat bottom [TS]

  and that wormed its way up into cars where there's plenty of room just because of bottom steering wheel like a race car [TS]

  that may be entirely wrong [TS]

  but the only fear I can come up with because far as I can tell functionally speaking I don't see what advantage the [TS]

  flat bottom would give you because you can already tell what orientation the wheel is because the spokes you know like [TS]

  if you're if you're looking in the lumps like so many other things that you can tell like you don't need a flat side to [TS]

  say I can tell what angle I can always tell like they're not it's not a smooth symmetrical wheel so I don't understand [TS]

  the flat bottom so I think a kind of wall and not not enough that I would get. Three thirty five. [TS]

  But there's something appealing now that I'm a dad to having a little bit more transparent. [TS]

  Because three thirty five strong not big using this in a more transparent it's a pretty small car I've got a one tiny [TS]

  child you have plenty of trunk space what do you think you're storing. [TS]

  Oh no I don't I don't know man but when I [TS]

  when I put the stroller in my trunk I'm losing well without like some seriously creative Marcos Markel level packing [TS]

  losing a significant amount of trunk just with the damn stroller in the really got the stroller we got was because Sims [TS]

  strictly because it folded up as small as it does. [TS]

  Well if you just wait like a year [TS]

  and then one can go in a like like an umbrella type stroller which is just so much smaller that they fall up so much [TS]

  smaller and then you know they're then they're almost like they're also size like a skinny golf bag. [TS]

  Right like you were just you can then put a long ways either direction [TS]

  and well your car before we can put it parallel to the car definitely perpendicular to the car and yes that's great [TS]

  but if you're talking about trunk space this is not going to help you. [TS]

  Hatchbacks you know yes they have they have wider trunk openings and more vertical space. [TS]

  Yeah vertical space [TS]

  and if you want to fill the seats down you can get you can replace most of the interior with effectively trunk space [TS]

  but if you have a car seat there like you're awful in the seat down or at least both of them. [TS]

  I would almost guarantee that your current car your three series has overall roughly the same amount of space is this [TS]

  or slightly more for cargo area and maybe [TS]

  and what you're really really I mean if you look at it like larger trunk space you're looking at either a hatchback [TS]

  or a G.T. [TS]

  Version of a three serious sized car or you're looking at a larger car like a five series [TS]

  or an accord of some might that like that's I don't think like if you're if you were trying to base this is not the way [TS]

  to get it I don't even know what I need trunk space wise I just feel like it. [TS]

  It will probably become an issue sooner rather than later. Only if you let it. Fair point the other thing. [TS]

  I was curious to hear your two cents on the both of you is Aaron has no desire for a new car. [TS]

  She has a two thousand seven seven Mazda six which is and think as nicely appointed as it came at the time. [TS]

  If memory serves and she loves that car and I would probably get murdered if I ever tried to take away from her. [TS]

  But if we were to get her something different what would we get her. The obvious answer to me is X. Five dollars used X. [TS]

  Five the bonus answer which is a little more unique but probably a terrible idea is an S.R.T. [TS]

  Eight Grand Cherokee which is crazy fast and crazy fun [TS]

  but it would she would be stopping at a gas station every ten miles. [TS]

  What's happening to you that you're considering quote unquote high performance S.U.V.s. Why not. [TS]

  What's going on what do you mean my not that's if they get it. [TS]

  That's you know maybe census like it's like getting an offer of a Lamborghini an S.U.V. [TS]

  But I mean like you know if you have doesn't mean it's the wrong combination of things. [TS]

  If you're going to get some sort of big tall four wheel drive S.U.V.s type thing. [TS]

  Don't get it with like a low profile tires in a super fast that like it's you're mixing things that don't work together. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  but that's what makes it so magical No no that was makes it so ridiculous I am beginning with my example that they're [TS]

  making S.U.V.s I can't think I can't it's as if you had a Porsche S.U.V. [TS]

  But they make one of those if you had a Ferrari if you yeah I think that I think they've got one in the works there was [TS]

  no more example I can use that are like I don't maybe like a lotus that probably got my guess he vetoed it there's no [TS]

  going to go but I would like it's not it's not a good mix of things if you're going to get something that's big [TS]

  and tall and offer to get something that's big and on a variety. [TS]

  Don't try to make it into a performance car because of the make any sense. [TS]

  Well also S.U.V.s have a similar problem is what I was saying a minute ago about what about cargo space being you know [TS]

  so. [TS]

  Like a lot of people get these compact S.U.V.s that are based on like you know like the Civic sized platform in B.M.W. [TS]

  Land that we definitely X one which is based on the actual one series and [TS]

  and probably even the X three where it's based on a compact car definitely the Lexus R X is one of these it's I think [TS]

  it's a best selling luxury one by by a long shot. [TS]

  So the problem is again they have a nice trunk size opening [TS]

  and if you're going to lose all the seats temporarily you can carry large things in it [TS]

  but if you have if you have one [TS]

  or both of the seats up you're not getting that much more space sometimes you're getting less space compared to just a [TS]

  larger sedan or especially if you if you want to go again or [TS]

  or like crossover style hatchback you can often get more space than you can an S.U.V. [TS]

  Or at least comparable space but I'd actually have to get an S.U.V. [TS]

  and Deal with the you know a very different and generally worse handling the large size the worse gas mileage. [TS]

  So if If what you're looking for is hauling around large pieces of furniture Occasionally yeah you know that that I've [TS]

  got and but [TS]

  but even then like if you're going to be for cargo space reasons don't get a compact one because they're usually not [TS]

  any more space than a reasonable sized car you're going to have to go X. [TS]

  Five sides are going to have to go like you know full size sedan base [TS]

  or small truck base to get massive cargo space internationally. I pasted your answer the cherry because what the Tesla. [TS]

  That's an affordable when you're looking at X. Five suddenly this is unavoidable. Well no I wouldn't buy it in X. [TS]

  Five knew I couldn't afford it new it would have to be a few years old by any other way along here [TS]

  but this will have plunged this solves your problem because it is an S.U.V. [TS]

  Like it's going to have a pretty good performance [TS]

  and tons of Congress really says no engine we're talking about a Tesla Model X. [TS]

  Whether if you're going Tesla you can just do the Model S. Because the Model S. [TS]

  Has tons of it's a very large sedan and it doesn't have. The engine in the front so it so it has that the Model S. [TS]

  Has more space than my car by it by a pretty big margin because it's just it's like I think like four inches long [TS]

  or it's a very long car [TS]

  and it's a huge it's a huge sedan like it is basically is bigger the sedan can get without being completely outrageous [TS]

  in this day and age. So so I would say if you're going to go Tesla just get the Model S. [TS]

  I just I can't believe I thought I was going to ask if there are suicide doors because it looks like the door handles [TS]

  in the back or go running out. Yeah. [TS]

  Our body up against the door handles in the front [TS]

  and then I realized oh they're actually not going John according to this Web site [TS]

  or Falcon where are they faster faster than the door indoors. [TS]

  I don't even is that the idea here and I didn't realize out of doors now [TS]

  and I take back the recommendation right now I got to read the sea. [TS]

  Well Falcon wings calling them doors to be an understatement. [TS]

  Well earning serious style points their functional first Falcon wings open up an out of the way. [TS]

  Even even the narrowest of parking spots you easily step not climb into a model X. That's really stupid. [TS]

  I also don't think this is a particularly good looking car. [TS]

  Not quite catfish I think that the testers are getting progressively less good looking like the Model S. [TS]

  I like it now the My horse is a step up from the roadster the Roadster is a Lotus. [TS]

  I know but it was ugly not model as I think was as it was pretty good in person and in person. [TS]

  It does look largely like you it is not look like a small car because it isn't one. [TS]

  But besides how large it is it looks pretty good to go back a step. [TS]

  The right answer to my question which is purely hypothetical of what do you get as a family. [TS]

  Bombing around car it is a minivan without question that is right for one kid though I feel like that's not made not [TS]

  time for a minivan I mean it like I'm just saying like hypothetically for one kid the largest are allowed to go to [TS]

  Super PAC And I think like especially you have to decide. [TS]

  We want to car do you want to truck like or do you want to write that first decision. [TS]

  You don't often totally different directions if you decide I want something with a car like it then maybe you can look [TS]

  at a way against failing a car if you want something that says you feel like that's a whole different category of [TS]

  things that I feel like that that should rule out any anything with low profile tires anything you're with performance [TS]

  aspirations because you should be going off in a different direction. [TS]

  Right so the thing is so I think the right answer is a minivan for like one. [TS]

  If and when we ever have another kid [TS]

  and then all you have then the two kids want to bring their friends along to wherever we're going so there's nothing is [TS]

  required you should go and test drive a minivan [TS]

  and that will dissuade you from a visit there some terrible to drive by the way I should also point out that this [TS]

  caught the context of what you're saying is what you replace your wife's car with not your car exec I think Arab would [TS]

  kill you. [TS]

  Right yeah [TS]

  but I'm just saying at some point you may end up having to you may have to drive the minivan a minivan driving is like [TS]

  just my good No See here's the thing. [TS]

  Aaron I've spoke about this in very big hypotheticals and she has said she would probably prefer to have an S.U.V. [TS]

  But would absolutely entertain the idea of a minivan but would absolutely vehemently refuse to have a wagon. [TS]

  That's weird though you know what I guess is like driving a car you should really really look at the three G.T. [TS]

  Just sayin. [TS]

  It's if I wanted a Subaru Outback ultra super PAC but it's better but it's a Subaru Outback it really isn't [TS]

  and if you see a Subaru Outback it's that's not like that [TS]

  and think it was an ugly three series really an outback is definitely a wagon like an app that is unquestionably a [TS]

  wagon a three D. T. Does not really look like a wagon person because it's a pretty different shape. [TS]

  Plus I'm telling you the Giant back seat is amazing for car seats. [TS]

  It is so and because it has so much back because it's the Chinese platform. [TS]

  So has the long wheelbase platform it is so amazing how much rear seat room there is in that car. And for car seats. [TS]

  It's just a luxury. [TS]

  Yeah I mean this is all entirely hypothetical I just want to be an interesting discussion to have that probably [TS]

  everyone will tell us that they hate but all screw it it's the after show we can do whatever we want. [TS]

  But really I think the answer is is that you replace your wife who's taking care of your child full time you replace [TS]

  her car with whatever she wants. [TS]

  Oh that's all right let's look at this question [TS]

  and that without question you are absolutely correct I was just curious you know what. [TS]

  What would you guys do in this hypothetical where it's probably going to end up being a S.U.V. or A minivan. [TS]

  I like wagons [TS]

  and I think like it's the great the greatest the greatest compromise you know you get a whole bunch of actual space be [TS]

  still get to drive a car like a real life car like it or not. [TS]

  There's nothing about it that's not a car like it handles that way the way to usually similar like it's it's far fewer [TS]

  compromises what I would have done if this was like a year or two ago when this was all happening [TS]

  and I needed to have a family car. Absolutely would have rocked the C.T.S. V. Wagon which is hideous. [TS]

  It is like every other city as of yet pretty much it is unbelievably unbelievably hideous [TS]

  but god to just smoke anything to anything I run into except maybe Markos car maybe. [TS]

  Would be amazing that I mean you can look at it like to answer you know what we do in the scenario you can I have these [TS]

  actions in area when I did do something and I got a three D. T.V. or Furtive defense treaty. [TS]

  I would you know if among the forgiving your priority is given Aaron's priority is that I'm mostly just guessing based [TS]

  on her or her liking of the muster six. [TS]

  I would say first of all it's worth looking into the current amount the sexes will make them I don't even know. [TS]

  Yeah and actually they had a few several ugly years. [TS]

  Right right after errands but they've gotten very pretty again so I will you know look at that. [TS]

  I would I would argue that. You know so how long is there likely to have this car. [TS]

  Are we talking like a decade five years less. What are we talking about. [TS]

  Oh you mean like a hypothetical new one you mean. [TS]

  Yeah well I mean her car we bought in two thousand and seven and it's twenty fourteen [TS]

  and she'd probably kill me before she gave up that car. OK So we're talking like you know pretty long term. [TS]

  So the figure like you know you have to add yourself in are you going to have in this interval that you're going to [TS]

  have this car not forever but just in the interval that she's going to be likely to own this car. [TS]

  How many kids are you likely to have total and how old will they be fair point. And so yes you have to look at that. [TS]

  Right so in the next let's say let's say five to ten years in the next seven years whatever it is how many kids like [TS]

  What is your likely need going to be in this time span. [TS]

  That should that right there because one kid you're fine with anything. One kid you're fine with a three series. [TS]

  It is extremely likely that you'll be very fine with any full size sedan you know accord size five serious size model [TS]

  S. Would certainly do it it's kind of overkill that you can do it. You know a full sized M. Would serve you very well. [TS]

  Erin currently drives a full sized sedan and so you know chances are she probably likes full size of the hand. [TS]

  So I would start with other full size sedan. If you want to go upscale consider things like the Lexus. [TS]

  Yes which is not our style at all. [TS]

  But overall a very nice car and it's not that ridiculous I don't think this mom drove them for years [TS]

  and I spent a lot of time in them various family trips with them [TS]

  and it's they hold a ton they're huge cars are based on the Avalon [TS]

  and their huge car that they have their you know their luxurious inside and they're just not sporty at all. [TS]

  That's the problem. But overall they're they're pretty good. You know things like the Accord. [TS]

  I mean look John I mean you have a family with two kids you've never had an S.U.V. You're right you have an accord. [TS]

  Look what I would actually buy for myself if I was buying like a bigger car with more space if I feel like anyone as I [TS]

  would probably look at. [TS]

  I would maybe decide against [TS]

  but I would look at Vava way because back in the day I still have it in my head that Volvo is still the most safety [TS]

  focused company now they've changed under seven times or whatever who knows that's still true [TS]

  but I have good memories of all those [TS]

  and they make I think they make a four wheel drive wagon that is actually a wagon. [TS]

  I would look at them maybe I would just decide that they are way too expensive [TS]

  and that they don't drive as well as a car that I say my money could never bring myself to pull a trigger [TS]

  but I would look at that because I see lots of people around the neighborhood driving around involved a wagon [TS]

  and I like the idea of wagons they have something this car like or whatever and it would not be a nice car inside [TS]

  and it would not handle nicely and I drive not see but I would have a feeling that it was safe whether that's true [TS]

  or not. So that's what I would look at. [TS]

  Vocals used to be very into offering five speeds back in the day even in like wagons Is that still true. [TS]

  No I had that's but that's what I learned that's what I learned stick on I doubt it's still tramp's or not anymore [TS]

  but yeah I think Volvo has changed a lot from the valve that I knew in my youth but that's what I would look at [TS]

  and I think if I decided the way it was was something that I wanted I would wander over to the out of [TS]

  but in reality I don't have the money for either one of these cars. [TS]

  So glad I have a hand record and as I continue to behold [TS]

  and again the key here is that if in this hypothetical thought exercise it would almost certainly be like a two [TS]

  or three year old used car because we don't have the money to spend on one of these ridiculous monstrosities unlike [TS]

  used cars like I mean realistically speaking if I ever really need more him I would end up with on dialysis just what I [TS]

  would end up with like I would not like it [TS]

  but that's what I get because that's tons of them around here that is the minivan that I can most stomach I have driven [TS]

  in one I do not like but if you know if you got you got to do what you got and you can also. [TS]

  So you know the world of full size sedan and and you know medium sized S.U.V.s like the X five [TS]

  and stuff if you're looking at the luxury brands. You know you do the same with your car. [TS]

  Get one it's you go to use when you want to three years old [TS]

  or something like right get a you know a three year old five series [TS]

  or a six I think would be a pretty solid car you know it's a bit of money for that but it's really cheaper than Tesla. [TS]

  I mean I would I would start with full sized sedans [TS]

  and evaluate your needs based on you know how many kids you think you're going to have [TS]

  and how old are going to be during this time span. [TS]

  Because the reality is a full size sedan can hold enough for two kids it's like you can't you can't be the school bus [TS]

  that brings all of the kids on a field trip. [TS]

  But by the time that is likely to happen that might be like eight years from now though if you're going to be older [TS]

  but that's actually a thing that happens right like so that might be the end of this car's lifespan. Right right. [TS]

  Every time is that a kind of I was just thinking about Volkswagen Rabbit that my parents took the three of us being in [TS]

  for a week. [TS]

  That's insane three good bugs like in rabbit skis the equipment boots you know rentals like bring everything with us [TS]

  when we can and then that's a thing like growing up like my family always had curlers and cameras [TS]

  and that was it of me and there were two kids and the like [TS]

  and we we made it work like people you'll make it work in a matter what size car you have people make it work all the [TS]

  time. [TS]

  People in Europe think we're all big fat slobs [TS]

  and we're crazy for buying these giant things is because we are there they are right. Exactly they are right. [TS]

  But like you know families in Europe deal with much smaller cars and they just make it work. [TS]

  That's what people do whatever size car you have you're going to make it work. [TS]

  And and that's you know it might be more or less convenient certain times [TS]

  but also like you know don't don't choose your vehicle for this. [TS]

  Imagine scenario of something that you might want to do once or twice while you have it. [TS]

  Well I think this is why so many people buy giant as she is who will never really need a lot of that you know space [TS]

  or capability or offered us or whatever. Well what if I need to move furniture. [TS]

  OK well how many times in the last three years if you move furniture that needed an S.U.V. [TS]

  Like you know things like that rent the rent a van from you all. Yeah I don't know that. [TS]

  Org or pay the seventy bucks you know delivered to get like you know how many times you need to do that. [TS]

  So that's like you know look at look at your priorities like that you know just think about what you would actually [TS]

  need and use most days like [TS]

  and just get something that fits that because most of the time you're not going to carting around your kid [TS]

  and five of their friends in the next six years like that's very unlikely to happen. [TS]

  Now you're absolutely right [TS]

  and on the list of things that I just do not understand along with people who don't carry cash is people who buy pickup [TS]

  trucks [TS]

  and use the pickup bed to haul like pick up the things twice a year just like you're saying they do it there are times [TS]

  of the year they have covers on it [TS]

  and I think a lot of the times of the bad you'll scratch it I don't have a bad line [TS]

  or I don't have a lot of parents the bed liner. That's all they have four door pickup truck. There's a serious problem. [TS]

  There's massive sections of this country where like a truck is just what you get like that's just called that everybody [TS]

  has drugs are full of the Ford F one fifty a best selling car in America for many many years [TS]

  and we were growing up I think it has been displaced by the Camry and the court now [TS]

  but it's still always always in the top few. [TS]

  You know it depends whether you include fleet vehicles or not also read about the series like the old S.U.V.s [TS]

  and used to be like oh you're never going to take that off. [TS]

  But no one says that anymore because everyone realizes these are not made for off road like with the exception of maybe [TS]

  a couple of Range Rover stuff right so find there's cars then it's like what what is it that you're getting [TS]

  and so many S.U.V.s have just squeezed in the edges so much that they have so little room for luggage [TS]

  and they only have two. [TS]

  As of seats and the middle seat is not more comfortable [TS]

  and so it's like what you're getting is a really tall bad handling gas guzzling car that I want because I have need to [TS]

  be a pilot that is the big selling point you know and I want to be up high. There is some image stuff like. [TS]

  Same thing with some of the pickup truck like some part of your image you know you buy a car like Cyc fashion. [TS]

  I'm the kind of person who drives a whatever. [TS]

  Right and some people feel like I'm the kind of person who drives a Lexus S.U.V. [TS]

  Because you know I'm a suburban dad and I want to show that I'm a family man [TS]

  or whatever it is that your whatever it is that you're as John Roddick would say repping with your vehicle. [TS]

  That's part of the message right. And used to be there was like an off road stuff that went away so quickly. [TS]

  So now I feel like a four year for the thing that you are presenting to yourself you are trading a lot with the S.U.V.s [TS]

  because you're no longer getting more high you know luggage space. [TS]

  You're never getting anything really off road wise a lot of them are just front wheel drive not even pro-drug the best [TS]

  way Miles or with a four wheel drive ones. [TS]

  So it's like well you know it's a big sacrifice in terms of cost and mileage and you know handling [TS]

  and the possibility of tipping over [TS]

  or whatever other things you might be giving up for for this image that you're putting in the end. [TS]

  Plain old boring cars [TS]

  and maybe wagon still offer the best compromise in exchange for having something that has nothing that you want to say [TS]

  about you know one of the Camry say about you it's as you bought the default car. [TS]