The Incomparable

249: Critical Batman Deficit


  the incomparable number 249 may 2015 [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  incomparable podcast I'm your host Jason [TS]

  Snelling now over the past year we have [TS]

  tried some interesting things in a [TS]

  spin-off podcast at this podcast called [TS]

  TV that you can find at the incredible [TS]

  com talking about different shows week [TS]

  by week as they come out and we we [TS]

  really like superheroes so in fact two [TS]

  of the shows that we spent a lot of time [TS]

  talking about on those podcast were the [TS]

  flash and arrow up so we're going to [TS]

  talk about them [TS]

  we also there are a bunch of episodes [TS]

  about daredevil so that we like [TS]

  superhero shows there are a bunch of [TS]

  other superhero shows that are also on [TS]

  the air including and comic book related [TS]

  things including Gotham agents of shield [TS]

  agent Carter and Constantine it was a [TS]

  superhero comedy kind of TV season so to [TS]

  wrap up the season of comic book TV [TS]

  shows i have brought together an [TS]

  all-star panel including many stars who [TS]

  have appeared on those TV podcasts of [TS]

  your i introduced to you first [TS]

  the cast of the flash cast Lisa [TS]

  Schmeisser hello hi it's a pleasure to [TS]

  be here [TS]

  it's good to have you back Philip moza [TS]

  lack Mo's welcome to the welcome to the [TS]

  mother Zeppelin the I feel like I got [TS]

  pulled into the arm the big kids table [TS]

  that's right just squeeze on in your [TS]

  neck you and Tony sindelar hi Tony [TS]

  I nerds also here representing the the [TS]

  speedy arrow cast dan more'n hello and [TS]

  guy English hello and representing [TS]

  nothing is David Laura hello my name is [TS]

  Barry Allen and I am the fastest man [TS]

  alive not true [TS]

  nope tap know that's right em with the [TS]

  trap [TS]

  yeah no not with the scribe so I let her [TS]

  we're gonna go it's you know we only [TS]

  have one podcast here and and we have [TS]

  like seven shows to talk about and I i [TS]

  will say that if you want detailed [TS]

  feelings about the flash and arrow and [TS]

  daredevil you should check out the TV [TS]

  podcast because we we love our feelings [TS]

  go week-by-week there and and i love i [TS]

  love the flash browser i'm sure i would [TS]

  love the arrow cast if I want a season [TS]

  behind on arrow and I've enjoyed the [TS]

  half of the daredevil cast that I've [TS]

  been able to listen to because I'm only [TS]

  about halfway through [TS]

  so that's an endorsement is what I'm [TS]

  saying they're great that the ones i've [TS]

  heard anyway are great and I'm sure the [TS]

  others are also great [TS]

  so with that said let's not talk about [TS]

  those first and instead talk about uh [TS]

  let's start with Gotham often move on [TS]

  this is Gotham which which we discussed [TS]

  early on after the first couple episodes [TS]

  i think it aired and described it as [TS]

  these weird mix of shows where it's it's [TS]

  a Gotham supervillain babies [TS]

  there's Jim Gordon cop on the edge and [TS]

  there's creepy young Bruce Wayne anybody [TS]

  i watched three episodes and gave up [TS]

  what does everybody else think I watched [TS]

  them all Jason alright he's in yeah i [TS]

  watched all of them because of my Batman [TS]

  obsession Batman obsession [TS]

  oh it's not the complete sense think [TS]

  that's the bat well my my completed [TS]

  since think is particularly strong in [TS]

  things related to that man [TS]

  yeah I gave up four episodes from the [TS]

  end after fish Mooney begin president of [TS]

  the Thunderdome [TS]

  whoo i'm batman system i gave up after [TS]

  seven episodes and so so there's a good [TS]

  show in Gotham but it's a frickin like [TS]

  it's Frankenstein from likely there's [TS]

  like eight other shows in it as well so [TS]

  i am not sure that there's a good show [TS]

  tell me what is a big show the good shit [TS]

  so here's the thing is like that it's [TS]

  not not any one of them is a good show [TS]

  but I took each of them together you can [TS]

  make a fairly passable like a surgeon it [TS]

  I felt like it got a little better and [TS]

  then it gets really bad and there's a [TS]

  whole arc with a serial killer [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah i was i was lighted that [TS]

  was like not a good ending note there [TS]

  was 1i think that the thing that finally [TS]

  got us to turn it off was when Barbara [TS]

  did not get killed by the Sifl kilter [TS]

  and well because one of the one of the [TS]

  the corners that the show's writers are [TS]

  in you get introduced to Barbara and [TS]

  austin supply she supposed to marry Jim [TS]

  Gordon and they're supposed to have I [TS]

  guess Barbara Gordon jr. who will then [TS]

  go on to become Batgirl and oracle and [TS]

  Batgirl again and the problem is the two [TS]

  actors are playing Jim and Barbara had [TS]

  no chemistry what so ever and ever [TS]

  literally everybody else is on screen [TS]

  what he sparked with better and they [TS]

  found a different love interest in [TS]

  marina back around and look at that was [TS]

  going places that [TS]

  so this big barber problem and by the [TS]

  time we stop watching it [TS]

  our big problem Barbara problems why is [TS]

  she still here she gets increasingly [TS]

  creepy to like there was a scene that I [TS]

  think I and I talked about on the we [TS]

  mention briefly on the arrow cast where [TS]

  she takes in Salina and there's a when [TS]

  she's got this seems she's like drinking [TS]

  with the girls yeah and shops are closed [TS]

  like some Wilson Phillips video and [TS]

  she's she goes new whole thing about how [TS]

  beautiful Selina Kyle isn't at the same [TS]

  time because we specifically it would [TS]

  not be that creepy if it weren't for the [TS]

  fact that we've been told that Barbara [TS]

  is interested in women as well as mayor [TS]

  so it comes off really creepy and that [TS]

  1c and also teen runaways usually [TS]

  product sexual exploitation so there's a [TS]

  whole thing going on there were like oh [TS]

  it's gonna be like a fish Mooney thing [TS]

  where she like uses people and good but [TS]

  they don't put it in it but then its [TS]

  left like just sitting there like that [TS]

  was a weird creepy scene in a vacuum [TS]

  like which does is sort of indicative of [TS]

  the show you could call it weird creepy [TS]

  scene in a vacuum and you'd be right [TS]

  about most episodes [TS]

  yeah like that this stuff that I tuned [TS]

  in for for as long as I didn't I really [TS]

  like that rapport between Jim and his [TS]

  partner and if it had been too cranky [TS]

  detectives cravat each other while [TS]

  solving cases that would have been great [TS]

  because i love i love a good cop [TS]

  I love a good buddy cop show and I like [TS]

  to the Bruce Wayne story actually [TS]

  because I felt that is so much time and [TS]

  attention is given to Bruce Wayne in [TS]

  sort of the batman begins training thing [TS]

  where it's like he learns to be you know [TS]

  do karate but I thought that there was [TS]

  this was an interesting job of dealing [TS]

  with a young Bruce Wayne who has had his [TS]

  parents murdered isn't necessarily at [TS]

  the point where he's going to start [TS]

  training to being like you know a major [TS]

  ass kicker but we know that Batman is [TS]

  also there's a whole detective angle and [TS]

  so we see the Bruce Wayne's like trying [TS]

  to piece things together and solve a [TS]

  mystery which I thought was actually [TS]

  kind of cool and like a rough the [TS]

  rapport between him and out and Alfred [TS]

  get a lot better as the season goes [TS]

  along i really like Alfred as the guy [TS]

  like Sean Pertwee the Alpha character [TS]

  almost makes Batman makes sense because [TS]

  outfit is a little bit kick-ass kind of [TS]

  guy and this one guy asks yeah yeah he's [TS]

  not just like a doting Butler is looking [TS]

  for his grey poupon exactly yeah he's [TS]

  he's he's got some hard edges on him and [TS]

  he's trying his best to just sort of a [TS]

  child the obvious problem though there's [TS]

  no Batman [TS]

  that is my problem with vast loss of [TS]

  media the critical bat the deficit was [TS]

  also here's the way here's the thing [TS]

  that I that's all so weird about this [TS]

  whole show the premise of this entire [TS]

  show is that Jim Gordon is trying to [TS]

  clean up Gotham now if we it now and I [TS]

  think you have to be careful when it [TS]

  comes to superior to shows about saying [TS]

  we know this is going to happen because [TS]

  this is who these characters are in the [TS]

  comic books and I you know we talked a [TS]

  lot about that on arrow like this these [TS]

  two characters have to end up together [TS]

  because they end up that together in the [TS]

  comics and like I don't know that that's [TS]

  the case but the weird thing about the [TS]

  way the Gotham is structured is the only [TS]

  real good resolution for the show is if [TS]

  they clean up Gotham and they don't need [TS]

  to have a Batman like I think that is [TS]

  the only interesting way that you could [TS]

  go because it doesn't make sense [TS]

  otherwise it's just a story of failure [TS]

  like it's a story that everybody failing [TS]

  to do every day and that's that's life [TS]

  but that's also life in Gotham [TS]

  especially Jim Gordon doesn't get to win [TS]

  crime winds like eighty percent of the [TS]

  time or it's the wire light but and that [TS]

  works great if you are the wire well but [TS]

  Jim Gordon gets to be the commissioner [TS]

  right so I feel like that was that [TS]

  that's going to be the path of the show [TS]

  and I do i do like ben mckenzie and [TS]

  Donna Logan I thought those guys work [TS]

  well together and and I feel like that's [TS]

  the only you've got if you've got to [TS]

  give somebody hope with the show it has [TS]

  to be that which is James Gordon who has [TS]

  entered this completely corrupt city and [TS]

  this completely corrupt police force is [TS]

  eventually going to get them together [TS]

  enough to be the police commissioner and [TS]

  at least be perhaps you know we can [TS]

  dream that the police department will be [TS]

  cleared of corruption and he will [TS]

  instill in them you know some some [TS]

  ethics and morals overrun by [TS]

  supervillains in the but this is sadly [TS]

  the supervillains will require the [TS]

  Batman [TS]

  no I hear that the season six of The [TS]

  Wire was also about the Batman showing [TS]

  up in cleaning up Baltimore COI really [TS]

  sad to miss out on that one didn't turn [TS]

  into that yeah it got a little preachy [TS]

  because David Simon had a history as a [TS]

  sidekick and he was really letting all [TS]

  of his knives out about like how badly [TS]

  he was treated as a sidekick [TS]

  so it's got a little preachy corruption [TS]

  among Butler's it turns out the wire was [TS]

  the name of the superhero that was the [TS]

  big twist at the end was the numbers the [TS]

  name of superhero all you just but that [TS]

  was that would actually have been [TS]

  interesting as if the folks who are [TS]

  reading often [TS]

  sat down and said okay basically we're [TS]

  telling a story like the wire where Jim [TS]

  gets morally compromised in some ways [TS]

  but he thinks it's for the greater good [TS]

  in other ways and this is how the system [TS]

  wins the stuff people win and then [TS]

  somebody bust into the room and says I [TS]

  have an idea for five other stories [TS]

  instead they're like ship it you're [TS]

  really enthusiastic about you were bored [TS]

  let's go totally good and he said [TS]

  because that character is morally [TS]

  compromised anyway like he's hanging out [TS]

  with the majority and he's got a big [TS]

  giant vigilante clamp on his building [TS]

  like he's clearly morally compromised [TS]

  rate so that didn't end up there by [TS]

  accident right yeah yeah so he got this [TS]

  number but what's this doing here [TS]

  it was an art projects are brother from [TS]

  school you have asked questions so yeah [TS]

  that's it that's an interesting story to [TS]

  tell one in which i don't think they're [TS]

  telling this certainly know a vigilante [TS]

  lamp yeah you go to CRATE&BARREL it [TS]

  wasn't really being written by written [TS]

  by committee [TS]

  I mean I feel I feel bad for the actors [TS]

  because they're obviously they a lot of [TS]

  the actors were doing their best to try [TS]

  and and commit to a specific vision of [TS]

  the character especially edward nygma [TS]

  yeah you will get no he's phenomenal and [TS]

  I'm Ben McKenzie who I really loved on [TS]

  southland and eloquent to ya-ya airline [TS]

  it i enjoyed his history a lot of great [TS]

  characters they're all in different [TS]

  shows sadly but their medicare no Edward [TS]

  nygma will you ever quit with your silly [TS]

  riddles mr. Nicholas don't worry in [TS]

  these last episode of the season they [TS]

  make it very explicit what's gonna hit [TS]

  up [TS]

  ya just [TS]

  I don't I felt so connected and [TS]

  wednesday models also i felt so bad for [TS]

  him all season because he's just this [TS]

  weird smart dude who literally a smart [TS]

  and the one thing he can't crack his [TS]

  house is having a dedicated beings and [TS]

  he tries like this is unquenchable [TS]

  optimism through much of the season and [TS]

  I was like oh my god that would make my [TS]

  wish too sure about you and rub the cops [TS]

  and no one else I don't like what they [TS]

  did to him by the individuals and I [TS]

  don't want to say it just because I [TS]

  don't think anybody's got there yet [TS]

  did I really don't care about getting [TS]

  spoiled i do not care i watched three [TS]

  episodes gave up on it and then watch [TS]

  the rest so that's really sweet [TS]

  definitely cannot host that supposed to [TS]

  give up you can just exactly yeah the [TS]

  big problem i have with me aside from [TS]

  just the tone and the violence and the [TS]

  fact that my kids want to watch it and [TS]

  they really shouldn't and it's on at [TS]

  eight o'clock so you know try pulling [TS]

  them away from it is that it's you know [TS]

  as an aside from the failure you know [TS]

  all the time it's gonna have to end up [TS]

  and failure for Batman to show up all of [TS]

  these villains that we're getting to [TS]

  meet all of the villain babies are gonna [TS]

  be so much older than Batman by the time [TS]

  he's Batman you know it's gonna be like [TS]

  what 20 years [TS]

  you don't know that man because he could [TS]

  drop into one of those reverse Lazarus [TS]

  pits and just skip everybody all [TS]

  together you know that's why do you [TS]

  Batman is he's never had together an [TS]

  awkward phase [TS]

  yeah great Batman series we just fight [TS]

  all these villains like canes and [TS]

  walkers this out 15 year old Batman wins [TS]

  here yeah it's like I'd love to c 1 [TS]

  wherein and I mean I sort of tried that [TS]

  I guess with fish Mooney butBut to sort [TS]

  of see you know who are the villains [TS]

  that inspired the Joker in the Riddler [TS]

  and the penguin now I don't want to see [TS]

  the mob bosses that they all worked [TS]

  where I want to see that first [TS]

  generation and archaeologists and I you [TS]

  know I think one of the most effective [TS]

  episodes for me at least was the episode [TS]

  about the red hood because that was kind [TS]

  of what about like an urban legend of [TS]

  Gotham instead of a specific character [TS]

  where you have to start doing the math [TS]

  about how old will they be when they [TS]

  matter you know that so i really liked [TS]

  that episode I totally loaded and an [TS]

  extent that i have to be the joke is so [TS]

  badly [TS]

  yeah and that was also one of those ones [TS]

  that they they kind of focused a lot [TS]

  more on one continuous plot line then [TS]

  God that medicine had everything that [TS]

  had snakes and clowns and love triangles [TS]

  and what else could you ask for real [TS]

  that's everything I want everything [TS]

  pretty much it [TS]

  acceleration but it was missing a [TS]

  gorilla admittedly you know not [TS]

  everything can have a psychic gorilla [TS]

  what you shakin my beliefs cisco well [TS]

  you know is a critical Batman and [TS]

  gorillas deficit Tony no I deal with [TS]

  these issues every day someone tweeted [TS]

  this a couple weeks ago that you know [TS]

  you have agents of shield the talks [TS]

  about and talks about talks when you've [TS]

  got the talks and talks and talks and [TS]

  the flash you want a psychic gorilla you [TS]

  get from the air they have me wait they [TS]

  kept me waiting for that second karela [TS]

  from a long 21 episodes [TS]

  yeah but now they know they've taken her [TS]

  a lot of the table yeah yeah so yeah we [TS]

  can have not ever show can have a [TS]

  psychic gorilla we should probably move [TS]

  on one order could use do yeah well [TS]

  Jerry Orbach was essentially playing [TS]

  that part I thought that's what chris [TS]

  noth was soo Lee soon Jung across our [TS]

  jokes monetary or baka I with krishna it [TS]

  works it works and it worked well [TS]

  together [TS]

  let's talk about let's talk about agents [TS]

  of shield whoa did saying for a while [TS]

  now is you know we don't know the legend [TS]

  is that it turned around sort of midway [TS]

  through the first season and became more [TS]

  interesting which we are hard because it [TS]

  was not interesting and then in the [TS]

  second season i would say that I went [TS]

  through a period where i was bored again [TS]

  and then I went through a period where i [TS]

  was interested again n and yet so this [TS]

  is one that I've seen that I what I find [TS]

  baffling about it is first off they do [TS]

  sing hamstrung by the fact that they [TS]

  need to lead up from and then recede [TS]

  back from afterward the release of [TS]

  avengers age of ultron where they kind [TS]

  of have to tie into that in some way but [TS]

  also they took this long digression with [TS]

  the Inhumans and the thing to baffle me [TS]

  about is I felt like the Inhumans plot [TS]

  where they find these Inhumans and [TS]

  they've got powers and they've got their [TS]

  little you know whatever it is village [TS]

  in the mountains and I don't understand [TS]

  the racism against powered people and I [TS]

  guess that's [TS]

  premise of the show but I think it just [TS]

  points out how misguided the show's [TS]

  premises where when they find all these [TS]

  powered people everybody and when sky is [TS]

  revealed to have her powers they that [TS]

  the responses like she's a threat she [TS]

  must be stopped [TS]

  it's like you know the Avengers over [TS]

  there those are all power people and you [TS]

  like them right but why do you hate [TS]

  everybody else and the answer is because [TS]

  our show is our show is about people [TS]

  whose job is to find and capture people [TS]

  who have powers [TS]

  we should never have been because that's [TS]

  boring they have those guys are filled [TS]

  out a w-2 they've got a photocopy of [TS]

  Thor's driver's license its origins [TS]

  literally dramatic moment at that leads [TS]

  into the season finale of agents of [TS]

  shield is when Edward Edward James Olmos [TS]

  appears and asks the the community of [TS]

  super-powered people up in the mountains [TS]

  to fill out some forms that live like [TS]

  literally that is think the answer that [TS]

  has killed the answer is murder and that [TS]

  and that is why and also dangerous [TS]

  rumors around them up clearly you get [TS]

  like paperwork legit [TS]

  well if they had done more to show in [TS]

  humans actually being terrifying to [TS]

  people because they did they finally to [TS]

  the agent may backstory thing and which [TS]

  was good i thought that the thing is [TS]

  that episode is brutal because it shows [TS]

  it shows how work relationships can get [TS]

  and how terrifying you can be if [TS]

  somebody has a power and is not [TS]

  controlling factors in any way or [TS]

  they're very young and if we have seen [TS]

  more stuff like that to justify the [TS]

  hatred and fear that other people had it [TS]

  might make more sense like maize maze [TS]

  beef is legit because you had to take [TS]

  out a kid and she saw an army of mind [TS]

  control zombies and and all that [TS]

  um and to be frank I wouldn't mind if [TS]

  someone took out sky because i think [TS]

  that she's kind of a drag on the whole [TS]

  show there for your four sho reasons i [TS]

  see why you'd want to take out sky but [TS]

  she's proven herself loyal she's got [TS]

  powers now [TS]

  like with Deathlock right i mean i just [TS]

  don't understand the internal logic of [TS]

  the show saying you know other than they [TS]

  want to create some conflict with yeah [TS]

  so we'll create some other shield agents [TS]

  were they didn't the x-men to its [TS]

  excellent i really can't say mutants [TS]

  miss universe because legal blah blah [TS]

  yeah but you know one of the things that [TS]

  has always struck me as kind of weird [TS]

  about the x-men is how everybody's [TS]

  knee-jerk reaction [TS]

  this is described as a mutant when some [TS]

  of these mutants are doing kid can do [TS]

  things like you know heal the sick or [TS]

  teleport things at mission critical [TS]

  moments or be thought infrastructure and [TS]

  I think maybe you have to just eat you [TS]

  have to question the trope that [TS]

  super-powered people are inherently [TS]

  worth being feared so that's that's our [TS]

  that's the natural reaction or you you [TS]

  have to kind of commit to the other way [TS]

  which is super power people are [TS]

  terrifying because they they have no [TS]

  internal governance and they enjoy [TS]

  wreaking havoc and one of the things [TS]

  that agents of shield does it just it it [TS]

  doesn't ever hit consistent tone like if [TS]

  you find a colony of of super-powered [TS]

  people who are off on their own not [TS]

  bothering anybody i don't i don't really [TS]

  understand why everybody freaks out and [TS]

  thinks we need to bring you know fighter [TS]

  jets on scramble unless they fill out [TS]

  our forms but I just wait that would [TS]

  work for me better is if giant have [TS]

  actually been like building up to a war [TS]

  anyway and nobody realize it because she [TS]

  was she was right about Eileen fishers [TS]

  and master vibe but you know it just [TS]

  that that kind of came out of nowhere [TS]

  all said she does the big heel turn and [TS]

  you realize that ok cal is crazy but [TS]

  he's not the villain here she is [TS]

  which they by the way actually like [TS]

  spill out yeah listen last episode where [TS]

  you know she's a monster you've known [TS]

  all along that I was like oh really i [TS]

  think giving the building up to a cap 3 [TS]

  and the Civil War stashe see now guy you [TS]

  just point out exactly why i hate the [TS]

  show and I watch it but it's essentially [TS]

  a commercial it is a commercial for the [TS]

  marvel cinematic universe and they only [TS]

  build up to something interesting when [TS]

  it's movie release date time I disagree [TS]

  with that as far as far as of Asia [TS]

  Ultron's i think that the age of Ultron [TS]

  stuff they put in was totally [TS]

  unnecessary their libraries don't [TS]

  exaggerate [TS]

  they did not i love the captain america [TS]

  stuffed in age of Ultron so much more [TS]

  thanks to having watched I'm Peggy you [TS]

  know that the picnic party commissaries [TS]

  because they that ok that was an awesome [TS]

  miniseries and it flushes her out a lot [TS]

  more than she gets in Captain America [TS]

  where she's still got some character and [TS]

  somebody tell me started age of Ultron [TS]

  like it's my friend Peggy and all [TS]

  there's so much pain goes to this but it [TS]

  doesn't translate the other way at all [TS]

  and I was also kind of disappointed that [TS]

  we didn't get it [TS]

  samuel l jackson the season because for [TS]

  me the highlight of the end of the first [TS]

  season of agents of shield is when [TS]

  Samuel Jackson shows up in a helicopter [TS]

  and is all grabbed my hand and I was [TS]

  like oh this is so great and this year [TS]

  it's you know setting up Ward who is [TS]

  like a b-list villain at best to be like [TS]

  the new Dennis's and i really like [TS]

  psychotic bored i'm sorry i really [TS]

  really enjoy that character i really [TS]

  enjoyed I really bored out of his mind [TS]

  I just I just enjoy how to he's just [TS]

  he's just so crazy like he's just so [TS]

  crazy really hobby you actually enjoy [TS]

  you just find him refreshing vitamin [TS]

  vanilla ward [TS]

  I well I definitely find I definitely [TS]

  find a find him refreshing compared to [TS]

  first season board who is just dollars [TS]

  and host how was the best part of the [TS]

  whole yes i was saying it was full [TS]

  credit problem with Lachlan great lot of [TS]

  fun huge amount of fun i I'm with dan in [TS]

  that i think i think that i enjoyed the [TS]

  sort of third turn on ward where he sort [TS]

  of like he's killed his family he's left [TS]

  Hydra he's kind of okay he's in a good [TS]

  place in that he's you know an evil [TS]

  freelancer but he's like a good he's [TS]

  inescapable questions he's figured out [TS]

  what he needs to be and he's got a [TS]

  relationship he's got a girlfriend yeah [TS]

  even when they do that though I i like [TS]

  that they resist trying to redeem him [TS]

  anyway like yes he kind of almost has a [TS]

  soft side and make they have to work [TS]

  with them but it's never like oh we re [TS]

  accepted you like there's that great bit [TS]

  in the like 1pm out the penultimate [TS]

  episode where they get like it's [TS]

  literally the original cast from the [TS]

  original CS and it's like the dynamics [TS]

  are all different i thought that was a [TS]

  really great that wasn't like that [TS]

  episode just because it was like nobody [TS]

  has forgiven him and everybody like even [TS]

  every scene where he's like okay I'm [TS]

  giving you the briefing on this they're [TS]

  like yeah we know what i hear ya you [TS]

  just go to like that is realistic [TS]

  because if somebody did that to you guys [TS]

  you would not like even if you had to [TS]

  work with them you would not like it you [TS]

  would not be softened on the middle and [TS]

  I enjoy that dynamic i like how yandex [TS]

  co-worker who kept trying to kill him [TS]

  and get another Pinot yes I kinky just [TS]

  have to keep thinking it would be so [TS]

  much more interesting i mean i like [TS]

  Coulson Coulson is fine but like a much [TS]

  more interesting show would be like [TS]

  death lock and i'll say it like Scott [TS]

  naughty sky with powers and Bobby which [TS]

  is a great addition we get the tire from [TS]

  friday night lights and she's kicking [TS]

  asses Mockingbird right that's that [TS]

  there's some good in fact you could [TS]

  argue that they could just sort of let [TS]

  the old characters go away and the new [TS]

  characters which they introduced this [TS]

  season are more interesting [TS]

  I feel like they're there would be a [TS]

  good show in there and yet what they [TS]

  seem to dwell on more than not is this [TS]

  it is like they're they're so committed [TS]

  to their original actors and their [TS]

  original boring premise instead of just [TS]

  completely checking out and saying you [TS]

  know now we're essentially shields got [TS]

  its own sort of semi super team that [TS]

  depth fights crimes sounds like was used [TS]

  and incidentally might say thanks to you [TS]

  yeah that made that may be where they go [TS]

  and have to give the thumbs-up to also i [TS]

  think that they did you unlock as much [TS]

  as I think flashing arrow which we will [TS]

  talk about it some point are probably [TS]

  better shows i have to give full credit [TS]

  agents of shield for having certainly [TS]

  the most female characters who are [TS]

  probably the most three-dimensional I [TS]

  think evolution is true a lot a lot of [TS]

  female characters that are strongly [TS]

  developed which is great [TS]

  I a decently diverse cast which is also [TS]

  good [TS]

  I mean and I think something that a lot [TS]

  of the other shows that we like are [TS]

  lacking and I think that that's there [TS]

  are a lot of things that have hampered [TS]

  that show and held it back i believe [TS]

  that unlike Gotham which i think you [TS]

  know despite arguing that there was a [TS]

  good show in there somewhere i really [TS]

  think that that's it's pretty much a law [TS]

  student ID on the other words whereas [TS]

  agents of shield I think it's [TS]

  salvageable I think there's good stuff [TS]

  under I kind of feel like like dollhouse [TS]

  another another just we can show I feel [TS]

  like they're they're sort of so trapped [TS]

  in their original premise that they [TS]

  literally would have to have the [TS]

  fortitude to just Chuck the premise at [TS]

  which point i don't know why they [TS]

  wouldn't just cancel the show and [TS]

  replace it with a new Marvel theme show [TS]

  that had a better premise but because [TS]

  you know that the shield stuff is just [TS]

  kind of boring but they have introduced [TS]

  good characters this year so there's [TS]

  hope that they could respawn it into [TS]

  something that was more interesting than [TS]

  than what they've done up to now it's [TS]

  just I don't know there's something when [TS]

  they have like the shadow shield coming [TS]

  out with ever james olmos the body to [TS]

  that and I actually think the mistake [TS]

  they made was bringing Coulson back and [TS]

  this is not because the actor who is is [TS]

  great at what he did Clark races great [TS]

  and I love him in the movies but the [TS]

  weird paradox is the more you see him on [TS]

  the show the less you get a sense of the [TS]

  character at this point he's just like a [TS]

  dude in a suit who says drivable quite [TS]

  as cryptic things and has a plan that [TS]

  you'll find out later and like his hand [TS]

  and has projected all it has projected [TS]

  his desperate need for an emotional life [TS]

  onto his agent since in like weird muted [TS]

  ways because he's got his to surrogate [TS]

  daughters in in Gemma and by now at but [TS]

  I don't think he adds anything to the [TS]

  show anymore and his whole business with [TS]

  the Tahiti reveal was kind enough to [TS]

  release regarding this and I get that [TS]

  they had to do that to get to the [TS]

  inhuman since the aliens and it ties [TS]

  into the next stage of the whole marble [TS]

  verse and I actually think that's the [TS]

  biggest handicap the show has it has to [TS]

  act as a house organ for for people to [TS]

  remind them that you're you have this [TS]

  incomprehensible slew of movies where [TS]

  you have to collect all the stone dry [TS]

  that like they refer to the create a [TS]

  couple points and you had and just this [TS]

  and and I thought this is tricky and [TS]

  complicated and people who watch TV to [TS]

  escape are not going to want to do this [TS]

  they're going to be much more or as if [TS]

  it's a show where it's it's Deathlock [TS]

  and mockingbird and agent May you know [TS]

  jetting around the world and doing [TS]

  awesome stuff that i would i would watch [TS]

  that hard agree yeah and and the thing [TS]

  the reason i just heard dipped in and [TS]

  and and I you know I came back to it at [TS]

  the end of season one and I loved the [TS]

  way they resolved bill paxton that was [TS]

  yes so beautiful it was and it was the [TS]

  ultimate Whedon bad big bad ending right [TS]

  just a wonderful moment and so when [TS]

  season to start like alright I'm on [TS]

  board and and I just got bored and I [TS]

  kept coming back through the season and [TS]

  you and Edward James Olmos my cast ok [TS]

  this is what the show needs it needs [TS]

  this grounded authority figure that you [TS]

  just you know [TS]

  yeah and and then they kill them off ya [TS]

  know he had a great point was shield [TS]

  should be to that was ya day is nothing [TS]

  that here are bobby was saying was wrong [TS]

  about how they made they made him a [TS]

  racist they made him totally freaked out [TS]

  about the fact that they were powered [TS]

  people everywhere and you should lock [TS]

  sky up she's a thing right and it's just [TS]

  ridiculous to predict that except this [TS]

  guy couldn't control her powers that [TS]

  well yeah okay they could they could [TS]

  have made the narrative decision to save [TS]

  these people are dangerous because [TS]

  either [TS]

  can't control their abilities where they [TS]

  can and they choose to do in dangerous [TS]

  ways like to cross from one of the [TS]

  things I love about the flash is you [TS]

  have a lot of supervillains her like I [TS]

  have powers it's the whole I don't want [TS]

  to cure cancer i want to turn people [TS]

  into dinosaurs yes absolutely you know [TS]

  and the Marvel problem is you have these [TS]

  people i have these strange powers time [TS]

  that I have a crisis of identity about [TS]

  it in something all i can turn people [TS]

  into dinosaur problem is is that almost [TS]

  his character needed some nuance to say [TS]

  look I know you like sky I know you've [TS]

  trained her to be an agent she may be a [TS]

  good agent but if she's not handling her [TS]

  powers right she's a threat and we need [TS]

  to take her off the board until we can [TS]

  get that under control but instead what [TS]

  he says is she it's a thing it's not [TS]

  human it's a monster and that's just [TS]

  ludicrous it's absolutely ridiculous [TS]

  so almost they make him into this [TS]

  villain essentially when he could have [TS]

  been and looked like he might have been [TS]

  a really interesting kind of [TS]

  counterpoint to Clark Gregg and I [TS]

  actually like that moment where he's [TS]

  like you're right you should be in [TS]

  charge of me and those I can't that yeah [TS]

  that james edward james olmos will be [TS]

  like it's like Miami Vice all over again [TS]

  you gotta check with lieutenant Castillo [TS]

  before you go out I i think i just got [TS]

  frustrated and kind of fed up with the [TS]

  show at that point when they introduced [TS]

  the whole like separate shield faction [TS]

  and I was just like this is too many [TS]

  factions because there's their shield [TS]

  and others other shield who both of them [TS]

  think the other is bad and nitrogen and [TS]

  hydrogen actions and there's hydra [TS]

  people killing each other and their [TS]

  people you know breaking cover to do [TS]

  things and quadrant only human agent 33 [TS]

  is getting pushed all around and like [TS]

  like keeping track of where like [TS]

  somebody who was like a hostage in a [TS]

  bargaining chip with like it like it [TS]

  like it just I mean maybe I'm dumb and a [TS]

  bad person but i just thought it was [TS]

  modeled yeah I had minutes and that's [TS]

  the thing is you know I with with the [TS]

  shows that work of all these superior [TS]

  shows they're really lightly see [TS]

  realized and then you have Gotham and [TS]

  shield which are just so byzantine and [TS]

  you can't just sit down and enjoy an [TS]

  episode out of order [TS]

  it's all absolutely not like comic books [TS]

  where alina episode nice open with an [TS]

  org chart showing you the current status [TS]

  of the women too much maps with little [TS]

  flags on him showing you where hide [TS]

  as power we need to move on to agent [TS]

  Carter but i'm going to use as a [TS]

  transition I'm gonna want to enhance the [TS]

  point that you just made which is when [TS]

  agent Carter went off and shield came [TS]

  back and they started up the first scene [TS]

  of the first episode back I i watched [TS]

  every episode of the show and I was like [TS]

  I have no idea what's happening yeah I [TS]

  don't know who and I like a pretty good [TS]

  at what's happening and who's doing what [TS]

  and all of that except game of thrones [TS]

  because that's way too confusing [TS]

  yeah and I was like I don't even [TS]

  remember anything about the show and [TS]

  that's a bad sign when you when you lose [TS]

  the plot in nine weeks like any [TS]

  specimens of the plot you are not doing [TS]

  a good job at your show and it had a [TS]

  previously on [TS]

  oh yeah and I just imagined it you know [TS]

  if I didn't have a property right yeah [TS]

  yeah yeah just yeah obviously didn't [TS]

  stick [TS]

  I'd like to have you imagine a world [TS]

  populated by superheroes it's a world [TS]

  without spam or viruses are bounced [TS]

  email it's a world where the previous [TS]

  superhero all is one named mail route [TS]

  imagine opening your email and see only [TS]

  the legitimate nail that you want and [TS]

  need to receive you can live in this [TS]

  magical world you don't need to be a [TS]

  superhero mail route has the super power [TS]

  to make that a daily reality you don't [TS]

  need to maintain any of your own [TS]

  hardware software you sign up for mail [TS]

  route you change the MX records on your [TS]

  domain to point at mail route and that's [TS]

  it [TS]

  male receives all of your inbound mail [TS]

  it sorts it it filters out the bad stuff [TS]

  and delivers only the clean email to [TS]

  your mailbox it's easy to setup reliable [TS]

  trusted by large institutions like [TS]

  universities and corporations as a [TS]

  desktop user you'll find the email right [TS]

  interface simple and effective and if [TS]

  you're an email administrator or IT [TS]

  professional they built all of their [TS]

  tools with you in mind there's an API [TS]

  for easy account management and supports [TS]

  all of the features that you would [TS]

  expect from people handling your mail [TS]

  including ldap and Active Directory pls [TS]

  mail bagging man [TS]

  bagging and outbound relay you can start [TS]

  a risk-free trialno credit card [TS]

  necessary you sign up change your MX [TS]

  records and your mailbox and hardware [TS]

  will be completely protected [TS]

  it's simple and effective there's no [TS]

  good reason not to try it i've been [TS]

  using it for a couple of years now it [TS]

  really works has filtered out huge [TS]

  amounts of spam and if something does [TS]

  get comment spam filter i get a daily [TS]

  spam report i make one click that person [TS]

  is whitelisted I they are never filtered [TS]

  again and the mail they sent me is [TS]

  delivered super easy to use all [TS]

  listeners to the incomparable will [TS]

  receive ten percent off the lifetime of [TS]

  your account just going to mail route [TS]

  dotnet / smell right now that's mail [TS]

  route dotnet / smell and thank you to [TS]

  mail route for sponsoring the [TS]

  uncomfortable [TS]

  agent Carter let's see let's say nice [TS]

  things about agent Carter because I [TS]

  thought agent Carter was really good [TS]

  beautifully shot yeah so stylish so [TS]

  silent period specified period spy I [TS]

  mean it's Marvel right but there's a [TS]

  superhero we kind of thing but it's like [TS]

  you know i love the fact that it was [TS]

  more about likes actual spies and and [TS]

  and all the period stuff was really well [TS]

  done i thought and Peggy is really [TS]

  Hayley Atwell is a good actress and I i [TS]

  enjoyed her character in the fact that [TS]

  she's put against the you know these [TS]

  these awful people who basically [TS]

  consider her a secretary even though we [TS]

  know that she is a hero from world war [TS]

  two it's like we're two is over honey [TS]

  now get me some coffee greatest thing [TS]

  about the show though is it shows how [TS]

  difficult post-war readjustment was for [TS]

  everybody because you know so often you [TS]

  have these World War two narratives and [TS]

  you know snap closed on shot of soldier [TS]

  dipping nurse in to kiss fades to black [TS]

  up come some tasteful serif font that [TS]

  tells you how people live long and [TS]

  prosper and instead you've got war [TS]

  veterans who are all jacked up and [TS]

  people who are living in the bodies that [TS]

  got blown apart and women who had like [TS]

  five or six years of unprecedented [TS]

  autonomy and opportunity for being [TS]

  crammed back into boxes and it was great [TS]

  to see this all playing out [TS]

  um I thought was a little heavy-handed [TS]

  sometimes because surely some of these [TS]

  dudes would have noticed that [TS]

  hey that though the women and not like [TS]

  people that have died was around during [TS]

  the war were really confident there's no [TS]

  reason whether or not now but for the [TS]

  most part III thought it was a really [TS]

  great look at post or shock and and [TS]

  excellently to build up the creeping [TS]

  threat of you know the red [TS]

  the the black widows and the other spy [TS]

  apparatus is that just kept taking the [TS]

  distance Dottie was like one of my [TS]

  favorite things about the show [TS]

  yeah yeah well I have to say narratively [TS]

  there's a there's a lot of that I think [TS]

  this show me in terms of you know [TS]

  putting up against agents of shield [TS]

  shows what happens when you only have 13 [TS]

  episodes deal within 23 or whatever if [TS]

  you can you get only three [TS]

  yeah yeah very sorry is even less right [TS]

  yeah so there's an economy there right [TS]

  you can do that you can do a serialize [TS]

  show in a dense and that's what is it [TS]

  it's a story it's a items extra rent and [TS]

  that's I think one of the best choices [TS]

  they made here was was doing a show that [TS]

  is not 20 items as long because [TS]

  invariably within that you have to go [TS]

  down all these little dead ends and [TS]

  called the Saxon trying to craft an [TS]

  overall message that doesn't just get [TS]

  like oh we introduced a problem this [TS]

  weekend it got resolved in like five [TS]

  episodes see why I don't see why long [TS]

  series and I refer to almost all the [TS]

  ones that were talking about is why you [TS]

  couldn't just jump into like three [TS]

  groups of seven episodes of peace and [TS]

  kind of what they tried with arrows here [TS]

  and had mixed results [TS]

  yeah you're right because because i have [TS]

  had a hard time back there anyway to get [TS]

  back to agent Carter it works you're [TS]

  right you were because it was shorter [TS]

  um I also think it worked because [TS]

  they're not constrained by modernity if [TS]

  that makes sense like you really could [TS]

  double down on the music and the [TS]

  aesthetics like one of the most knockout [TS]

  sequences in the Premier thing that got [TS]

  me hooked was when Peggy uses her [TS]

  lipstick to take a guy out in the office [TS]

  and she's in that beautiful dress and [TS]

  she's got on that platinum wig and the [TS]

  everything from the set decoration to [TS]

  the music it's like a really beautiful [TS]

  toxic dream and I was like I'm you never [TS]

  seen anything like that on agents of [TS]

  shield never liked the other fight [TS]

  sequences were just so beautiful like [TS]

  the first time the dot that dot does the [TS]

  Parker off-the-wall grabs the guys [TS]

  almost kills him was amazing i swear i [TS]

  watch that sequence like five times [TS]

  because i was so mesmerized by watching [TS]

  her legs move the way they moved and [TS]

  this show which is beautiful and stylish [TS]

  it was like a permaculture box although [TS]

  the radio drama [TS]

  did you know with the fight ya narrated [TS]

  in 30 John David I know you day that [TS]

  that would probably did for you [TS]

  well i was gonna say you know [TS]

  considering all the radio theater stuff [TS]

  it doesn't surprise any [TS]

  anybody that I loved to the show I mean [TS]

  this you know of all the shows I've [TS]

  watched this year this was one of the [TS]

  few where I said they're going i want to [TS]

  write this one you know because I've [TS]

  been and and especially the the bit [TS]

  where they do you know the radio version [TS]

  of agent Carter is nothing at all like [TS]

  agent Carter yeah and you know it's is [TS]

  it was just beautifully beautifully done [TS]

  i wanted to point out the the most [TS]

  important weirdness of agent Carter [TS]

  which I loved and yet was baffled by [TS]

  which is the concept that somebody is [TS]

  employed as an automat waitress that [TS]

  makes you don't got no automatic doesn't [TS]

  have that you just go to put in your [TS]

  coin and you get the food that there's [TS]

  no service in the autumn but they [TS]

  created this automat diner which is kind [TS]

  of hilarious but baffling at the same [TS]

  time because it doesn't work like that [TS]

  that's not what that is maybe it's like [TS]

  employee people to pleasure you just got [TS]

  real drinks [TS]

  yeah automat waitress that's what does a [TS]

  bad job and left the automat and it in [TS]

  one reason is it's probably too back to [TS]

  like 67 track that it would be in the [TS]

  CAF and it could push button and get [TS]

  like a bunch of colored cubes church [TS]

  maybe it's the nutritional foam hi i [TS]

  also want to put a good word in for [TS]

  James D'Arcy as chart and Edwin Jarvis [TS]

  who I thought was a here i thought he [TS]

  and Peggy have really good chemistry [TS]

  together they work really well together [TS]

  and I and I i do like a dominic monaghan [TS]

  as as Howard start to I think that three [TS]

  the three of them do a heavy you know a [TS]

  good sort of report and it's a lot of [TS]

  fun watching them unlike a lot of shows [TS]

  on television the showrunners are women [TS]

  which is a nice yeah they did Reaper [TS]

  which wasn't which there are things [TS]

  about Reaper that I really liked have to [TS]

  get that show had known it had no right [TS]

  to be that funny but it it was not [TS]

  amazingly well done doing right yeah it [TS]

  really won't go ahead and when they [TS]

  brought on michael ian black and Ken [TS]

  Marino as the fall as the fallen angel / [TS]

  demons and realize and it like they got [TS]

  a balance of of deep heavy stuff and and [TS]

  and really funny quality and stuff right [TS]

  and I would hope they would do that a [TS]

  little bit more in season 2 of Asia [TS]

  Carter [TS]

  is this one did get bogged down a little [TS]

  bit from time to time it'll end of them [TS]

  to straight-faced but i'm so looking for [TS]

  the season 2i can't wait to this also [TS]

  i'm dying to find out for Peggy Mary's [TS]

  because they dropped a couple hints [TS]

  about how she's interested matter has [TS]

  been indirectly because of Captain [TS]

  America and now who is it what happened [TS]

  but i think it was a howling commando we [TS]

  find out how my gosh I've always so [TS]

  great to see Neil Donahoe again to life [TS]

  that was nice [TS]

  oh he was so easily missed that the [TS]

  Howling Commandos buying I fast forward [TS]

  into the future that's one of the sad [TS]

  things about the first captain america [TS]

  as we missed those characters we don't [TS]

  get the chance to see them anymore [TS]

  because we move on and live a whole [TS]

  series about them and we must move on [TS]

  now and talk about I'm sorry we have to [TS]

  do it somebody somebody needs to speak [TS]

  for John Constantine against the series [TS]

  against well I just helping businesses [TS]

  for him in the sense that he's that the [TS]

  Constantine you know is exists dot well [TS]

  forgot this place is dead they forget [TS]

  it's really wonderful film it [TS]

  the actor that plays John Constantine [TS]

  look like John Constantine good 20 cast [TS]

  a good job back and I think easy of the [TS]

  rest of that I would be pretty [TS]

  complicated if they wanted to show [TS]

  throughout the rest of the show and just [TS]

  like remake make a new show with him [TS]

  still as John Constantine [TS]

  I would watch that show i think that the [TS]

  problem is everything else to make sure [TS]

  the writing all the side characters [TS]

  applauding it's slightly entertaining [TS]

  that suffers from the sky thing where [TS]

  everybody thinks she's much more [TS]

  interesting than she actually is and [TS]

  yeah good production values to actually [TS]

  the production values that you are [TS]

  actually top-notch but it just it hangs [TS]

  on a bad story he needs to be a season [TS]

  of supernatural is what he needs to be [TS]

  he's crazy charismatic in the role and [TS]

  he's actually it was a little nervous [TS]

  like yeah this is pretty much how he [TS]

  jumps off the covers of the trades i [TS]

  have heard for John Constance is how i [TS]

  imagined in my head and then everything [TS]

  else around it was like this weird [TS]

  boring pseudo x5 was not was like and [TS]

  rejected fringe fringe group and Harold [TS]

  Harold Perrineau deserves better too [TS]

  because one of the things I've always [TS]

  enjoyed about him is how easily he rides [TS]

  that one of ambiguity like all these [TS]

  greatest roles have always been of [TS]

  people who want to be good [TS]

  and have huge flaws in nature and so [TS]

  having him as an angel with a really [TS]

  ambivalent agenda like he could've had a [TS]

  great part and they just wrote him as oh [TS]

  and now here's some exposition and how [TS]

  here's a complication been thrown [TS]

  because well we have to have something [TS]

  to burn up 20 minutes and you know it [TS]

  was a wasted two really good actors and [TS]

  so I just just skip the show [TS]

  don't do what I did which is like skip [TS]

  through and watch the end go wait what [TS]

  oh actually i guess i got is yeah can we [TS]

  take Donald Logue from Gotham and recast [TS]

  him his chance because I feel like he'd [TS]

  be more fun [TS]

  I think so maybe maybe we just we just [TS]

  start like something to kick-start a [TS]

  rescue actress from their contracts and [TS]

  put them in the shows we think they [TS]

  deserve to be and it it can we also to [TS]

  talk for a moment about just the fact [TS]

  that this is an example of the cheap [TS]

  look like cheap TV producer syndrome [TS]

  where they made a pilot they decided to [TS]

  do to get rid of the actress who is [TS]

  playing one of the characters and [TS]

  replace that part with a different [TS]

  character and rather than rather than go [TS]

  out with her best foot forward they just [TS]

  decided to attack like a a change in the [TS]

  last 30 seconds of the pilot and say oh [TS]

  but then she went away and somebody new [TS]

  appeared yeah okay it's just like that [TS]

  is not a way to launch a show is by [TS]

  introducing you two characters and then [TS]

  having one of them just unceremoniously [TS]

  dumped at the end of the hour in about [TS]

  30 seconds and to me because I've seen [TS]

  her she's been another stuff and she's [TS]

  actually a pretty good actors too but [TS]

  that part was awful and they made her do [TS]

  an American accent which not good so [TS]

  they should I mean and if you want to [TS]

  make a change after the pilot that [TS]

  totally do that but you know you spend [TS]

  money and you know fix the pilot and [TS]

  reshoot the pilot to reshoot those [TS]

  scenes in the pilot but to just do that [TS]

  and you just jerk around in it in our [TS]

  one you've jerked around the viewers i [TS]

  do this is Lucy Griffiths they recast [TS]

  rate yes [TS]

  yeah this needs to be a six-episode BBC [TS]

  show instead or something yeah oh yeah [TS]

  she's gonna be on purpose she's gonna be [TS]

  on preacher so she's got a time [TS]

  um I'm looking for her that I'm looking [TS]

  for [TS]

  well so Constantine was a failure and [TS]

  something nobody really wants to defend [TS]

  it particularly so maybe it's all for [TS]

  the best I think what I would like to [TS]

  see i would like to see that Ryan is the [TS]

  character shop on Lucifer just as an odd [TS]

  uh and an easter egg type thing you know [TS]

  Lucifer just gonna be worse right [TS]

  yeah because because that because the [TS]

  premise which would have made Lucifer [TS]

  great which is the devil runs a piano [TS]

  bar and everyone space with the love [TS]

  boat which is what it should be is has [TS]

  been turned into instead the devil [TS]

  freelances a criminal investigator [TS]

  because why not [TS]

  and I rent frog yes yeah I i would I did [TS]

  like Stephen Amell from aero suggesting [TS]

  that they if Netflix rescued Constantine [TS]

  he would guest star on it and I was like [TS]

  because they would go to him for advice [TS]

  about the Lazarus pits and I was like [TS]

  that would be very interesting but I [TS]

  feel like as soon as you coexist those [TS]

  two universes you have some weirdo and [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  let's move on then from Constantine we [TS]

  don't speak no no further ill of the [TS]

  Dead and we'll move over to our friends [TS]

  at the CW where we have the Flash [TS]

  premiering this this year and we have [TS]

  arrow coming back for a third season [TS]

  let's start with let's start with the [TS]

  incumbent and talk about arrow now guy [TS]

  and dan you guys talked about arrow all [TS]

  year [TS]

  how do you how do you let's start with [TS]

  you about how do you feel about this [TS]

  some this season of arrow takeaways am [TS]

  sadly disjointed I think his visit one [TS]

  of the biggest problems with it which is [TS]

  that it had very unclear through lines [TS]

  in terms of where was going to go in [TS]

  every few episode seems like we're gonna [TS]

  go in a totally different direction now [TS]

  but i think the biggest problem that we [TS]

  identified and talked about a lot is [TS]

  that we have coming off a year with a [TS]

  great villain in Slade Wilson we we get [TS]

  instead [TS]

  Rachel ghoul who should be this really [TS]

  imposing creepy figure but Rachel [TS]

  doesn't really seem to have any sort of [TS]

  goals or motivation other than just [TS]

  having a really cool secret organization [TS]

  which made him really difficult to deal [TS]

  with as a character because all he [TS]

  really seemed to care about was like the [TS]

  internal organization of his of his [TS]

  little group of assassins like I guess [TS]

  up a succession plan and if you set them [TS]

  down really what it what do you need to [TS]

  thank you doing [TS]

  it's where do you see the League of [TS]

  Assassins in five year he just needed [TS]

  like a good estate planner as a lawyer [TS]

  like that but that's not even the issue [TS]

  the issue is what is the League of [TS]

  Assassins do it's never made clear we [TS]

  spend an entire see it today they did [TS]

  they do the seating and the brackets and [TS]

  then you know it's mainly just capture [TS]

  the flag environment plz so they also [TS]

  kill people occasionally but that's more [TS]

  of a side project just to pay for the [TS]

  BBQ yes that's right [TS]

  so I think there are still a lot of [TS]

  great moments there are certainly a lot [TS]

  of great i mean the mid-season break [TS]

  which ends with Oliver getting stabbed [TS]

  in falling off a cliff [TS]

  even though you were pretty sure that he [TS]

  was coming back we still really well [TS]

  done i especially like Stephen amell's [TS]

  tweet after that well as run well played [TS]

  yeah yeah that was good that was early [TS]

  for a midseason finale [TS]

  it was just like all my girls were just [TS]

  like old movies a gas before the scene [TS]

  yeah I'll give you that but i think that [TS]

  there are the back half of the season [TS]

  just it was it was tricky to get into [TS]

  the heads of the characters Oliver sort [TS]

  of double his plan is unclear and kind [TS]

  of changes from moment to moment there's [TS]

  lots of weaknesses and a lot of things [TS]

  that could be involved by the while the [TS]

  old it's the old TV problem of like look [TS]

  if you just told a few people what your [TS]

  plan was like I just explained this [TS]

  ahead of time you put something in [TS]

  writing and sign it and yeah like that [TS]

  would really solve a lot of problems and [TS]

  angst I think for me like the Rajah gold [TS]

  character like I i wasn't really [TS]

  familiar with makes up for you know son [TS]

  of the demon and you know Liam Neeson [TS]

  plan B estonia and and he was really [TS]

  don't like heat like again that writing [TS]

  explained his purpose a little [TS]

  differently and if he felt intimidating [TS]

  that I go through and I sweep out what [TS]

  needs to be swept that no one else will [TS]

  do but you know this rise me not [TS]

  somebody and when you know we talk a lot [TS]

  guy night and and John let's talk a lot [TS]

  about you know the racial and other [TS]

  forms including conflicts and the batman [TS]

  animated series which is a a even even [TS]

  that is a better person every no terrors [TS]

  and [TS]

  the League of Assassins right right [TS]

  there is like again this sort of like [TS]

  global conflict right that they probably [TS]

  taken but this this league of assassins [TS]

  kind of toothless and they there's a lot [TS]

  of time traveling back and forth to [TS]

  Nanda Parbat via some magical super [TS]

  subway that goes through the middle of [TS]

  the earth or something it only takes 20 [TS]

  minutes [TS]

  everything takes 20 minutes from Star [TS]

  City though because they're always [TS]

  popping back to the island where nobody [TS]

  thought to look for all over 45 years [TS]

  and yeah it's it's that's one of the [TS]

  perpetual mysteries on that show they [TS]

  got fastjet's good just like magic [TS]

  public transit ok Starling city has a [TS]

  lot of infrastructure problems [TS]

  especially after they lost a whole [TS]

  section C due to earthquake but great [TS]

  public transit let me hear guy guy [TS]

  what's your what's your take on on arrow [TS]

  season 3 [TS]

  what do you think that they did blew it [TS]

  haha guys must you think of me at the [TS]

  end of season two when I had to rush [TS]

  i'll go is gonna be on it I was worried [TS]

  because I thought that was biting off a [TS]

  lot also seemed like there was more [TS]

  interesting things to do with the [TS]

  character at the beginning of the season [TS]

  I had high hopes will they date to kill [TS]

  Sarah which really upset me because she [TS]

  had I love my character I like that [TS]

  actress blood and she has a big role of [TS]

  the interim management yeah so that was [TS]

  like what was that kind of shocked me at [TS]

  that you know by the end of season two [TS]

  had placed a lot of fate of the writers [TS]

  by the end of season three that faith is [TS]

  shaken quite a bit and I don't know how [TS]

  much of it is that maybe the showrunners [TS]

  we were focused on launching the flash [TS]

  which we'll talk about but they did a [TS]

  tremendous job on or at you know I don't [TS]

  know they were trying to outdo the slave [TS]

  wheels and plot by being even more [TS]

  sleepy willfully i don't i don't really [TS]

  get what they were doing [TS]

  we did see the short shake up a lot i'm [TS]

  in characters coming and going and I [TS]

  think we're set up for the next season i [TS]

  mean the next season has to be later [TS]

  it just has to be there's no way it [TS]

  can't be like darker than that [TS]

  so about Brandon how about brand around [TS]

  for his red Palmer honey i love it i [TS]

  love him i left i really liked him [TS]

  Superman I thank you i did to that yeah [TS]

  I think of anything the the lac I mean [TS]

  that the the story of that Superman [TS]

  Returns kind of [TS]

  the train because I thought he did it [TS]

  tremendous job with matt and i like to [TS]

  my head like them on track to I think he [TS]

  does a great job [TS]

  my name is he's got great comedic timing [TS]

  and he's often he was refreshing in this [TS]

  season two with which is so tower at [TS]

  points that he was kind of a break your [TS]

  lifeline right he's the ralph bellamy of [TS]

  modern love modern filmmaking where [TS]

  Ralph Bellamy was that the Baxters that [TS]

  were like the charming perfectly nice [TS]

  guy that the heroine always throws over [TS]

  for somebody who's just patently about [TS]

  idea and the thing I really like about [TS]

  Brandon's mouth is he basically owns it [TS]

  at this point and I I think being kind [TS]

  of a self-conscious dorky Baxter works [TS]

  for him and I loved him on the flash [TS]

  when Wendy and actually it [TS]

  yeah when the antacid the atom is gonna [TS]

  be on the flashes like sorry on era I [TS]

  was like that can't possibly work that [TS]

  makes no sense at all and thank goodness [TS]

  she was there because he's like a [TS]

  Ramirez image version of Tony Stark like [TS]

  when you think about it because they're [TS]

  both billionaire geniuses there's no [TS]

  wonder it's used to clone he's like a [TS]

  carbon como no except that Tony Stark [TS]

  has his play with the ladies got chill [TS]

  and I don't yeah you know Ray Palmer has [TS]

  no chill is a big dork with be seen you [TS]

  know every episode of dr who that's what [TS]

  it's got going for him okay this season [TS]

  they even made Felicity kinda really sad [TS]

  most of the time yeah it's really good i [TS]

  mean don't I i said was not a fan of um [TS]

  so I I've always thought this show had a [TS]

  dino problem and they actually fix the [TS]

  diner problem this season and I love [TS]

  with her character ended up I thought it [TS]

  was phenomenal the way they character of [TS]

  the way they worked on her character [TS]

  this year I i am in the minority in [TS]

  believing that they plausibly evolved [TS]

  this woman who have a lot of anger and [TS]

  not a lot of direction for it into [TS]

  somebody who doesn't be besties with her [TS]

  sisters ex girlfriend and becomes a much [TS]

  more effective vigilante and I like the [TS]

  estrangement between her and her dad [TS]

  because that reads is really true these [TS]

  are just two people who were who used to [TS]

  count on each other and it was a huge [TS]

  betrayal and i loved it [TS]

  I'm going at 10 degree I I that's it i [TS]

  don't like what they did with Felicity [TS]

  because it feels like like the secret [TS]

  origin story first of all dressing up [TS]

  that after like a golf is just a mistake [TS]

  but I [TS]

  if you like they they try to jump the [TS]

  shark feels like they're like family we [TS]

  suppose we have to make her worthy of [TS]

  this billionaire Archer vigilante come [TS]

  foo fighter assassin dude so let's all [TS]

  of a sudden make her quasi-independent [TS]

  plays I wealthy courtesy of her job and [TS]

  give her a bunch of promotions and now [TS]

  she owns the company and she already was [TS]

  a virtue of being awesome [TS]

  well she was awesome yeah but yeah so [TS]

  yeah I don't you don't you don't need [TS]

  all the other stuff I i think i think [TS]

  and i think i actually may have said [TS]

  this in a flash cast like logically [TS]

  speaking Oliver is the guy she might [TS]

  have had someone for about six months [TS]

  but I really feel like she would have [TS]

  been better off with Ray and it would [TS]

  not have hurt if the show had gone that [TS]

  direction so for it to go to completely [TS]

  different direction we're over the [TS]

  Philistines the thing that saves all [TS]

  over and cheese cheese happy ending at [TS]

  the end of the season she's reward and [TS]

  true love Rob Lowe like every time we [TS]

  get there we had like maybe season 3 [TS]

  will be like you know i was just [TS]

  drinking can be bust-up with the girls [TS]

  be drinkin shoot natural polish oh no [TS]

  this this season did right by Dinah in [TS]

  my opinion the season also did right by [TS]

  thea and I like the greatest thing they [TS]

  did for her the season in my opinion was [TS]

  people stop lying to her and she got her [TS]

  own power because light at the end of [TS]

  last season it's so clear the reason she [TS]

  runs off with Malcolm Merlyn issues like [TS]

  holy crap my city has been taken over by [TS]

  bioengineer assassin dudes and then and [TS]

  then oh god it's like the greatest thing [TS]

  I've her father with the arrows he takes [TS]

  her away and it's so obvious why three [TS]

  runs away and this whole season was [TS]

  about her coming back and and forcing [TS]

  people to be honest with her and owning [TS]

  her power and owning her [TS]

  responsibilities and they finally did [TS]

  right by her oh yeah definitely didn't [TS]

  want things to be seen one of the [TS]

  reasons that I wanted to that I was [TS]

  excited to flash flash flash flash cast [TS]

  yeah yeah is that this was a week season [TS]

  of the arrow but i do think that arrow [TS]

  as lesson with a problem with women [TS]

  characters than the flash those icy [TS]

  brass today actually think flash has [TS]

  been a more cohesive show this season [TS]

  their characters have been the little [TS]

  bit on the [TS]

  maybe we should watch it fly no actually [TS]

  episode so yeah if you're the most [TS]

  interesting thing that they've done with [TS]

  arrow this season's in setting up for [TS]

  next season is the total basically [TS]

  abolishment of the secret identity which [TS]

  is to say everybody else on the show now [TS]

  knows that Oliver Queen is the arrow the [TS]

  arrow is basically dead for all the [TS]

  attention Portland doesn't like secret [TS]

  identity and and that's smart because [TS]

  thatthat strokes but I mean like anybody [TS]

  who watch more than a season of [TS]

  Williston Clark got really boring to me [TS]

  and and it just it's it's refreshing to [TS]

  not have to deal with that even though [TS]

  it can lend itself to dramatic irony at [TS]

  certain points [TS]

  I feel like that's a road that so many [TS]

  superhero shows him down i'm really glad [TS]

  the flash doesn't spend too much time on [TS]

  it with the exception of virus which [TS]

  we'll get into I'm sure but the the back [TS]

  to zero it is year spends all like [TS]

  basically reveal that to every last [TS]

  remaining character that is is a really [TS]

  solid market its favor because it sort [TS]

  of takes all right we've done that we're [TS]

  moving on from there and i think that's [TS]

  that's an interesting place to go [TS]

  setting up for the next season there are [TS]

  innumerable strong women on arrow [TS]

  yeah and that is certainly not the case [TS]

  on flash you are using the bad guys in a [TS]

  narrow even bad casted and will doesn't [TS]

  there's nessa from season two [TS]

  there is time keep it well looky Cupid [TS]

  to the whelks that was kinda flat and oh [TS]

  god it was hilarious which is talk about [TS]

  her wedding plans yesterday yeah it's [TS]

  just fun but I'm talking about the woman [TS]

  who was on a Firefly [TS]

  Oh God her summer glau that one summer [TS]

  glau exactly is out but even like that [TS]

  they didn't bother making rationality is [TS]

  kind of not even a bit like aggression [TS]

  out for her to be a bad guy [TS]

  you can go like Moira queen there's so [TS]

  many believe there's so many fully [TS]

  realized women character i love the [TS]

  Huntress shot dressed up because her dad [TS]

  being a criminal but still he has no [TS]

  yeah but she's got every she's just as [TS]

  crazy as Holly yep [TS]

  yeah you should come back she should be [TS]

  like I want you to meet my boyfriend the [TS]

  question I want to yeah questions so [TS]

  much do I have to say and this is a kind [TS]

  of flash arrow crossover point here [TS]

  first i'll say i started watching arrow [TS]

  because of the [TS]

  because of a flash crossover I was like [TS]

  oh because i don't want to pilot night [TS]

  just never continue watching and I saw [TS]

  the first crossover episode said I mean [TS]

  yeah I played into their trap there [TS]

  right wishes [TS]

  hey you're watching the flash but you [TS]

  know we got this other show you should [TS]

  probably watch that taste is totally [TS]

  totally worked [TS]

  but I as i watch the flash and and we [TS]

  and we have a problem with the the women [TS]

  characters on the flash a and and we [TS]

  have the i'll say it I actually think [TS]

  fantastic chemistry between Felicity and [TS]

  Barry on-the-fly I keep the exact I keep [TS]

  thinking they should one it makes [TS]

  everything else on the flash kind of [TS]

  pale in comparison to can we [TS]

  I know it would be bad for arrow because [TS]

  we just import that character into the [TS]

  flash because he's great on the flash [TS]

  she's good she's really great on arrow [TS]

  but she has better chemistry with [TS]

  everybody so have I told you guys might [TS]

  inhabit theory about Felicity and her [TS]

  dad [TS]

  Noah ok so might in that field theory [TS]

  also seen her dad and this was actually [TS]

  born out of an episode of the flash is [TS]

  here the writers on the record saying oh [TS]

  Felicity's dad is a big deal and you [TS]

  know you'll be shocked what you find out [TS]

  that explains a lot about Felicity I [TS]

  think she's I think she's bothered by [TS]

  your thought blah that usually employ I [TS]

  can stream while I love you we've ended [TS]

  Tony's conspiracy corner with over in [TS]

  the corner [TS]

  it was great Oh Tony sighs look guys I [TS]

  gotta drive diagram hold on okay [TS]

  huh we can do anything we want we went [TS]

  through a wormhole ah how old is she [TS]

  that might not work at corner is taking [TS]

  up an increasingly large part of Tony's [TS]

  basement at this point yeah yeah well [TS]

  he's it's a tesseract really this anyway [TS]

  that was good that was quite a fine [TS]

  having watched knowing that she was [TS]

  going to be a main character and [TS]

  watching the first season of arrow and [TS]

  seeing how it kind of came to be it's [TS]

  like well i will give them a lot of [TS]

  credit in finding that actress and [TS]

  finding that character and saying oh my [TS]

  god [TS]

  let's just more of her please she is [TS]

  she's there are episodes in both of the [TS]

  first two seasons of arrow where I wear [TS]

  like the number one reason i keep [TS]

  watching is because I just can't wait to [TS]

  see Felicity embarrass yourself by [TS]

  saying something and then regretting it [TS]

  because you know she's really smart but [TS]

  she can't get the words out just love [TS]

  just love that love that character of [TS]

  that actress so yeah no she's not [TS]

  supposed to be on like once to that was [TS]

  just good job or whoever to that and [TS]

  yeah she had crazy chemistry with [TS]

  with some great custom and she's got [TS]

  crazy chemistry with Brandon routes to [TS]

  my understanding is that was a network [TS]

  note like yeah they saw the episode and [TS]

  they're like have more blonde lady which [TS]

  is good because that all the Oliver [TS]

  Laurel chemistry and that was always one [TS]

  of its weaker but yeah it's been much [TS]

  better between the two of them since [TS]

  they became more like friends and [TS]

  colleagues then when they were love [TS]

  interests which never really worked [TS]

  no it was impossible there's a problem i [TS]

  have the Flash to is that I'm not sure I [TS]

  really buy the whole Barry Allen iris [TS]

  West well and and and this is the thing [TS]

  I was saying earlier with Gotham is [TS]

  again I think we should be careful about [TS]

  saying that these things have to happen [TS]

  either because they've been predicted in [TS]

  a future newspaper or because they have [TS]

  been the comic book universe is that [TS]

  suture newspaper yeah really different [TS]

  version of the media like franchise do [TS]

  whatever you want don't feel bound by [TS]

  having to stick to how those characters [TS]

  end up in the comic book that's what I'm [TS]

  encouraged by about about Felicity out [TS]

  arrow is that it's like no no let's just [TS]

  let's just go with that because that [TS]

  works that's working a lot better at the [TS]

  problem with having Felicity on the [TS]

  flashes she does have great chemistry [TS]

  grant cuts Dustin and it uh it it really [TS]

  makes it hard to sell other characters [TS]

  and Barry Allen because you're like I've [TS]

  seen him with her so forget that this [TS]

  other lady over here yeah they grew up [TS]

  together whatever it's just a dangerous [TS]

  game when you have something like that [TS]

  and you've imported from another show [TS]

  and she's got to go back there because [TS]

  then you're like oh you know but we saw [TS]

  that we saw that how great that was and [TS]

  this is not working for that habit [TS]

  that's no problem is that she gets along [TS]

  with everybody and like she she's such a [TS]

  great actor well Felicity just need to [TS]

  have the Baker call Felicity know the [TS]

  kid do that there's already show that [TS]

  was called that but if we shift gears to [TS]

  the flash a little bit you know I i can [TS]

  complain about some things in the flash [TS]

  and I know on the flash guess you guys [TS]

  have it and quite rightly so and yet it [TS]

  is so much fun and great just great [TS]

  justin is so likeable and the thief as [TS]

  Lisa likes to say is three dads where [TS]

  you get time captain who is great at [TS]

  science dad you know just tell Marta [TS]

  brings gravitas 28 what would otherwise [TS]

  be kind of a silly set of plotlines he [TS]

  really brings the adult supervision in a [TS]

  way that's so great and then john wesley [TS]

  shipp stunt cast because he was the [TS]

  flash in the nineties actually does a [TS]

  great job in [TS]

  his stuff as berries real dad who's in [TS]

  prison prison dad so the science dad [TS]

  prison dad police dad and and also throw [TS]

  in that the other stunt casting with a [TS]

  cast the cast mark hamill been bringing [TS]

  him back to the character he played on [TS]

  the nineties flash show and he did a [TS]

  great job and was a lot of fun and they [TS]

  had a minute pace come back and actually [TS]

  I i had several moments where I thought [TS]

  that maybe maybe they were setting her [TS]

  up to be the replacement for dr. wells [TS]

  next season because she was like science [TS]

  ladies on the rival science lab but you [TS]

  know it all all that stuff worked and [TS]

  there's no way that it should have all [TS]

  worked like that but it just so it made [TS]

  it a pleasure so even though there can [TS]

  be quibbles I just was so much fun to [TS]

  watch that show this year is to start to [TS]

  finish so much fun well that is speaking [TS]

  of future newspapers that the first [TS]

  thought that came into everyone's head [TS]

  in this house was there still gonna be [TS]

  newspapers then and we did anything it [TS]

  could be like a webpage they kinda like [TS]

  tracing the closet out distributed the [TS]

  newsstand yeah it's just is listicles [TS]

  that they print out and throw out onto [TS]

  the streets [TS]

  yeah only five reasons the flashes [TS]

  disappeared he shot my as expressed by [TS]

  labor photos of you know I i was looking [TS]

  to add another show to the weekly thing [TS]

  and this was a show that you know it's [TS]

  it's not even that that we put it off [TS]

  like tuesday at eight boom we're sitting [TS]

  there and watch absolutely [TS]

  there and watch absolutely [TS]

  and and my ten-year-old fell in love [TS]

  with it [TS]

  I I haven't seen him go bananas for a [TS]

  show like that in a long time and he was [TS]

  really with it he loved it he was [TS]

  watching and then he was the one is like [TS]

  it's 759 change the channel come on [TS]

  until we got confirmation that that [TS]

  Wells was really the reverse-flash and [TS]

  he immediately rejected pad and it's [TS]

  like no because he loved Tom Cavanagh [TS]

  and because science dad was so cool and [TS]

  science dad was really supportive and [TS]

  science dad was wonderful and and that's [TS]

  science dance science dad wouldn't do [TS]

  that and you know the know they say he's [TS]

  going to be a regular cast member next [TS]

  year right and I hope that means that [TS]

  he's going to be the real Harrison wells [TS]

  now [TS]

  yeah because you know he's so good at [TS]

  that and you know I kind of want to show [TS]

  my kids bed now because they really [TS]

  enjoyed him as creepy as the concept of [TS]

  it was just a lawyer i own a bowling [TS]

  alley two separate things and and i'm [TS]

  stalking this girl from high school and [TS]

  then she marries me for modern family [TS]

  little weird but but he was just so [TS]

  charming you know it had no so great and [TS]

  so this it's sort of carried over into [TS]

  this and I mean I on the one hand i [TS]

  really liked the idea that old Tom [TS]

  Cavanagh it turns out to be the big bad [TS]

  that's really cool but at the same time [TS]

  watching watching him in his reaction [TS]

  you know it sort of made me think you [TS]

  know he's really he really likes this [TS]

  mentor character and and you've done a [TS]

  really clever twist of making the mentor [TS]

  the the bad guy but what is it going to [TS]

  do to the little fan who just [TS]

  immediately reject your show out of hand [TS]

  because a mentor wouldn't do that you [TS]

  know it's an interesting story but at [TS]

  the same time you know I came to see it [TS]

  from his point of view to it's like well [TS]

  we would have been nice if there'd been [TS]

  another twist that it wasn't really him [TS]

  there was somebody else or I don't know [TS]

  you know I'd say that's an effective [TS]

  show that make you sad about Karen [TS]

  gathering [TS]

  oh yeah absolutely that's because I'm [TS]

  not let's get the job i will also [TS]

  yeah you're not ten really mr. strong [TS]

  point and also I do i do wonder [TS]

  sometimes if it would do what the effect [TS]

  would have been if it hadn't been [TS]

  revealed in the end of the pilot that he [TS]

  has a secret lair with a future [TS]

  newspaper in it and instead we were left [TS]

  to just assume throughout that he did it [TS]

  he had nothing to do with it would we [TS]

  have caught on what had been a real [TS]

  shock when we have not believed it and [TS]

  that's why they had to really tell to [TS]

  show us that because otherwise we would [TS]

  feel like well you didn't set that up at [TS]

  all i don't know but it was it was great [TS]

  to watch Tom Cavanagh the whole season [TS]

  and feel his legitimate you know [TS]

  feelings toward his charges while also [TS]

  having this whole other agenda [TS]

  I mean I speculated wildly that there [TS]

  were to reverse flashes right there had [TS]

  to be like a good one and a bad one [TS]

  because I you know because I was [TS]

  hesitant put to believe it he's lazy so [TS]

  dr. wells [TS]

  yeah oh no we were we had all sorts of [TS]

  crazy theories about how this is gonna [TS]

  work for the third floor yeah yeah I [TS]

  mean I i kinda like the idea that he had [TS]

  the access to the future technology in [TS]

  the future news whatever it is and all [TS]

  this but I kind of wanted him to be [TS]

  wally west and have some kind of future [TS]

  you know that's that's how he comes from [TS]

  the future [TS]

  alas he's clearly jay garrick if they [TS]

  finale anyway all that I i just love [TS]

  that moment of the helmet coming up [TS]

  oh gotta go yeah I land is mike i yelped [TS]

  audibly yeah [TS]

  yes same here i had to explain why i [TS]

  yelped because i did not have to i had i [TS]

  did not have to explain myself to anyone [TS]

  yeah well I wasn't alone you guys you [TS]

  guys seem to think that he thought the [TS]

  jay garrick was coming for him [TS]

  I just took it as like sent like some [TS]

  sign of some event in the future [TS]

  universes breaking down or something [TS]

  something like that because I mean why [TS]

  would you Jake characters kind to kick [TS]

  his ass [TS]

  why would he throw his helmet to the [TS]

  time thing first it passes and just show [TS]

  up beat the crap and i think it was [TS]

  maybe just a UH a memory of one of the [TS]

  many different timelines that he's gone [TS]

  down and got all these different flashes [TS]

  and it's just like that's not a good [TS]

  sign if i bothered that's where took it [TS]

  but it's right but the walls are [TS]

  breaking down or there's a rip in the [TS]

  unit [TS]

  yeah either that or he's been there [TS]

  before where he seen that how much fly [TS]

  off into a time loop [TS]

  yeah and he's like well this is not [TS]

  gonna end well and I assumed I assumed [TS]

  that the end of the the season that the [TS]

  season finale which I enjoyed a lot and [TS]

  and I I enjoyed that they have to pay [TS]

  attention and that also they spent most [TS]

  of the running time dealing with [TS]

  characters and not with ya cataclysmic [TS]

  plot think it was holes [TS]

  I assumed it would end though as I think [TS]

  most of us dinner many of us did with [TS]

  him saving his mom and discovering that [TS]

  the future is not what he expected to [TS]

  done having it be like a flashpoint kind [TS]

  of think that his bed he pretty prevent [TS]

  himself from doing it was the great and [TS]

  surprised yes that was super surprised i [TS]

  loaded touch that was a super [TS]

  interesting move because how does yeah [TS]

  how it has that already happened is yeah [TS]

  he knew he was gonna stop until I don't [TS]

  then you start getting well well that [TS]

  connects future berry and future a [TS]

  reverse flash coming backwards yeah who [TS]

  are fighting their right and and that [TS]

  also suggest that other than the fact [TS]

  that he's been erased from history which [TS]

  kind of complicates this whole thing you [TS]

  you could kill a smartphone and still [TS]

  have appeared in the show because he [TS]

  wouldn't have yet gone further back but [TS]

  who knows [TS]

  time-travel man makes really doing wave [TS]

  your hand so my theory on this is that [TS]

  you birth song puts a he kidnaps Eddie [TS]

  and he basically just tell him that [TS]

  useless and i think that the only reason [TS]

  for that is that it that Eddie's body [TS]

  gets sucked up into the time loop and [TS]

  ends up becoming either bards direct [TS]

  father or like that that's how things [TS]

  work out [TS]

  yeah is that he did not get erased from [TS]

  the time thing [TS]

  no no no candidate because this too much [TS]

  cause that would undo every exam yeah [TS]

  yeah so but he but the timeline changes [TS]

  in a way that lets us keep Tom captain [TS]

  on the show and still have perhaps the [TS]

  actor who played Eddie comes back and [TS]

  now he's he's the other reverse-flash or [TS]

  something like that little ring in my [TS]

  heart you know just got [TS]

  for that guy he goes retriever you ya [TS]

  its Nora's dad or without you baby [TS]

  yeah so it's like Cujo except with [TS]

  people haha well it's sad but what I [TS]

  really liked about the flash is that it [TS]

  felt like even after this first season [TS]

  like did this show has been going on way [TS]

  longer than one all I know [TS]

  yeah and it's just a testament to how [TS]

  well anyway they really threw everything [TS]

  in right like they and and they did a [TS]

  good job of making that you know again [TS]

  arrow is always stuck to this very idea [TS]

  of like we're kinda going to be an it up [TS]

  until this season like we're gonna be [TS]

  like realistic right like everything in [TS]

  this universe is kind of explainable the [TS]

  flashes was like nope [TS]

  thank you can realize that yes the one [TS]

  and season one psyche gorilla and just [TS]

  like at people with superpowers crazy [TS]

  stuff with Miller rows back onto my TV [TS]

  show and i like that i like their whole [TS]

  heartedly unabashedly embrace the whole [TS]

  like superhero genre in a way I think [TS]

  that we can all agree totally is like [TS]

  possibly murder your comic any other [TS]

  comic book show on TV it's the closest [TS]

  comic books that you that I've seen in [TS]

  like at video media damn slot the the [TS]

  writer of spider-man for many years now [TS]

  so competing company to DC and the flash [TS]

  tweet tweeted back in December and I I [TS]

  actually called us up on Twitter search [TS]

  right now but i remember seeing it at [TS]

  the time he said if you love superheroes [TS]

  watch the flash it's the show we always [TS]

  wanted place it straight looks great [TS]

  well-written no camp lots of heart no [TS]

  added grit the flash is straight on [TS]

  unapologetic live-action superhero show [TS]

  and I think he's totally right it's like [TS]

  he has the spirit of a superhero comic [TS]

  book in a way that we have rarely if [TS]

  ever seen on television [TS]

  yeah for the movies well yeah yeah i [TS]

  mean because the episodic nature of it [TS]

  makes it feel more like a contrite true [TS]

  but it's got one of the most nuanced [TS]

  takes on family relationship ever see [TS]

  like which is kind of ironic because so [TS]

  much of arrows about you know parents do [TS]

  terrible things because they love their [TS]

  kids so much for parents to give their [TS]

  children terrible burden to carry [TS]

  because there is a family business or [TS]

  there's a family vendetta or what [TS]

  her but you know what i was watching the [TS]

  last few episodes the flash it really [TS]

  hit me that this whole series is has [TS]

  always been about the different ways you [TS]

  can be a good or bad parent to your kids [TS]

  sometimes it's at the same time and it [TS]

  was just such an extraordinarily subtle [TS]

  and compassionate and and and [TS]

  intelligently done examination of [TS]

  families i was like wow this is not this [TS]

  right hand underneath the gorilla how [TS]

  much better would you drink a lot of [TS]

  room under that gorilla but they did I [TS]

  did there are a few cases where I I feel [TS]

  like we've we found very talented [TS]

  television creators who grew up on this [TS]

  sort of material and have a pet any and [TS]

  yet are very talented as as writers and [TS]

  and creating dramatic television and [TS]

  have synthesized them together in ways [TS]

  that we should feel really fortunate [TS]

  that they did it and I feel like the [TS]

  flash is an example of that when russell [TS]

  t davies brought back doctor who and he [TS]

  brought all the things that were that [TS]

  would that people loved about the [TS]

  original but applied that whole other [TS]

  level of the characters and like what [TS]

  are the Companions families feel and [TS]

  things like that that had just not ever [TS]

  been considered and and i would say the [TS]

  only thing that I would say was we close [TS]

  to this in terms of a TV superhero show [TS]

  is my favorite show of all time Buffy [TS]

  which is essentially just weeding [TS]

  telling a spider-man story except [TS]

  switching out all the troops for horror [TS]

  tropes instead and making the character [TS]

  girl instead of a boy and the sneaky [TS]

  thing I think that they CW you know the [TS]

  sort of DC Comics want you to be thing [TS]

  it does is like you kind of got the [TS]

  flashing arrow as a Superman Batman [TS]

  analog without using those characters [TS]

  right but you have the Flash and [TS]

  Superman both powered both very much [TS]

  like good straightforward here I was [TS]

  Arrow and Batman both sort of the [TS]

  vigilantes slightly darker and and it [TS]

  lets you tell those stories but more [TS]

  interesting fact you badly burned down [TS]

  exactly by all of the you know decades [TS]

  and decades of baggage for these really [TS]

  really popular characters and so it's [TS]

  refreshing to see this take on like you [TS]

  know sort of a fresh take on what these [TS]

  are like tried and true superhero [TS]

  clearly not exactly clichés but [TS]

  archetypes you know our and I really [TS]

  scouting goth kid [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah exactly so when one of [TS]

  the things comparing the flash this to [TS]

  Superman also in terms of you know just [TS]

  being a good pure heroic kind of guy i [TS]

  mean that's part of why the kids both [TS]

  figured out that he wasn't going to save [TS]

  as [TS]

  other in the finale because a it [TS]

  wouldn't have made him the flash but the [TS]

  the thing that I liked was that he [TS]

  realizes that if he did if he saves her [TS]

  he's not gonna be the flash and and this [TS]

  this is a greater calling for him and [TS]

  and it's that that's the thing I hate [TS]

  about man of steel that's the thing I [TS]

  hate about the movies the DC is putting [TS]

  out is that they don't let their heroes [TS]

  just be heroes [TS]

  you're right there they're just good [TS]

  it's okay and you know you can have [TS]

  Batman you can have these other things [TS]

  but Superman is just good he would he's [TS]

  brought up that way and man of steel [TS]

  still pisses me off but but it's the [TS]

  same way you know and and they get it [TS]

  right in this that he's just good right [TS]

  and he was brought up by these really [TS]

  good mentors and parents and and you [TS]

  know and and that's part of the whole [TS]

  reason we have these archetypes and as [TS]

  as heroes to aspire to is that we want [TS]

  to be good like them we don't need to [TS]

  see them struggle to learn to be good [TS]

  it's ok if they're good but the arm the [TS]

  Oliver Barre relationship i thought was [TS]

  very strong because you finally get [TS]

  somebody who who you can sort of say is [TS]

  you know their peers in the sense that [TS]

  they both have shows but they don't know [TS]

  that they took the TV guy but but Oliver [TS]

  being we've seen Oliver come back from [TS]

  the island and you know three seasons of [TS]

  that he meets Barry after two seasons of [TS]

  his own shower a season and a half right [TS]

  because Barry shows up in the middle of [TS]

  season 2 of arrow but Oliver's is is [TS]

  like the mentor and Barry is this young [TS]

  impressionable kid and i love that [TS]

  dynamic i love that he that Oliver [TS]

  brings in us or brings experience and [TS]

  and like the rules of the road of being [TS]

  a hero and Barry brings this innocence [TS]

  and idealism that [TS]

  ah yeah sorry there is the tournament [TS]

  where we're all he gives some [TS]

  relationship advice is like trust us we [TS]

  never get the girls mascot to all the [TS]

  publicity driving to you know neither [TS]

  man into the sunset [TS]

  trust me Barry don't even try [TS]

  I think it's good for all over to know [TS]

  that someone who is unconditionally good [TS]

  as Barry thinks he's worth having his [TS]

  back for I think it helps reinforce all [TS]

  of his own shaky sense [TS]

  his morality in his own worth it because [TS]

  because because that was the thing that [TS]

  I actually thought was interesting about [TS]

  some of the Oliver Queen direction this [TS]

  season is he's always been somebody [TS]

  who's let other people tell him what his [TS]

  values are and what his value to other [TS]

  people is and you know he's not somebody [TS]

  who has this the strong internal [TS]

  scaffolding in terms of morality or [TS]

  sense of self and to have Barry give him [TS]

  this this huge vote of confidence is [TS]

  something that Oliver needs whether or [TS]

  not to actually admit that and to me [TS]

  that's one of the beautiful things about [TS]

  the relationship is always is Barry [TS]

  lenzen the moral fiber that he needs and [TS]

  in turn he takes all the experience he [TS]

  has a reminder very that it is not [TS]

  enough to be faster the other guy cuz [TS]

  cuz [TS]

  speed is only one thing you have to know [TS]

  how to fight you have to know how to [TS]

  anticipate things and and you know it's [TS]

  it's a beautiful symbiotic relationship [TS]

  how many how many people did Oliver have [TS]

  to murder before he decided to murder [TS]

  might be bad a seasonal I what is this [TS]

  21 and it takes awhile to pick up [TS]

  concepts he needs flash cards [TS]

  dead people don't have flash charts all [TS]

  we also knows that Barry isn't like him [TS]

  and in kind of really reinforces that [TS]

  fact and says well you know essentially [TS]

  is telling him don't be like me right [TS]

  you know you are a good person you are [TS]

  this hero just go and do that because [TS]

  that's who you are don't follow my path [TS]

  because my path is crazy and that is [TS]

  important that is important telling my [TS]

  wife that he is not well adjusted right [TS]

  like you know that's that is relevant [TS]

  also love that like when Barry just came [TS]

  and just took Nanda Parbat off the map [TS]

  click just give the Holy with thousands [TS]

  well he's running around it like I [TS]

  suppose a little bit less than Mach 2 at [TS]

  that point but then only can basically [TS]

  just murders all the assassins well well [TS]

  that murders here up pops a moment i [TS]

  love the way [TS]

  11-4 hata he doesn't know that [TS]

  resurrection of life and and this is why [TS]

  the League of Assassins fails that has [TS]

  no mission a flash I think I might need [TS]

  a favor [TS]

  you know maybe like tomorrow like 8-9 [TS]

  central BB answer whatever I don't [TS]

  excited about the old-school dungeon [TS]

  I'll start stretching pop a little hole [TS]

  in the time continuum the worst flash [TS]

  needs to like a 24 hour nap i got tired [TS]

  speaking by the way of uh of the [TS]

  contrast between the lightness of the [TS]

  flash in the darkness of arrow we should [TS]

  move on and talk briefly about the [TS]

  darkness of daredevil [TS]

  ok maybe like 5 episode so i can only [TS]

  contribute 5 episode yeah mines i'm only [TS]

  got about six or seven at this point but [TS]

  you're all cut I was yeah I know we're [TS]

  all her old it's 1030 is taking my [TS]

  breath away without oh my god Dorsey is [TS]

  like to see it is going to will continue [TS]

  to do so and and also charlie cox is [TS]

  exactly who I never realized he was the [TS]

  Matt Murdock I wanted or needed and what [TS]

  I really like Charlie Cox a lot yeah [TS]

  really good [TS]

  well I mean he's and he's no Affleck but [TS]

  you can do you know my house I would [TS]

  stop that kind of stuff will get you a [TS]

  bad way that I will not have it was a [TS]

  shank and kill you if you ever want to [TS]

  make a Boston really angry what you do [TS]

  is you ask them with a straight face if [TS]

  the inevitable Ben Affleck statue is [TS]

  going to come with or without daredevil [TS]

  costume [TS]

  you know we have a system here in Boston [TS]

  where we take our most unwanted people [TS]

  and export them to Hollywood and you [TS]

  keep saying that you tell you but I also [TS]

  want to throw in the body Curtis hall [TS]

  and rosario Dawson who were also really [TS]

  gasps in in daredevil this I i might I [TS]

  don't know what my expectations for the [TS]

  daredevil TV show what was I thought [TS]

  well that's a deathlike show that I i [TS]

  will actually watch sure let's give it a [TS]

  shot but I was not expecting what I got [TS]

  which was not the tone of most of the [TS]

  other Marvel stuff that it is a much [TS]

  more serious violent thing and but but [TS]

  really well done just like really really [TS]

  well done Tyga i was against along with [TS]

  the flash just an incredible us [TS]

  prize of the last nine months i love the [TS]

  reference to the Avengers stuff whether [TS]

  whether like well everytime when those [TS]

  guys toss him through building there's [TS]

  the real estate market and its really [TS]

  nice to hear that you know what the [TS]

  Avengers are busy recreating the team [TS]

  america sequence over in seconds via you [TS]

  know people in Manhattan that makes you [TS]

  the new york city are like well we are [TS]

  still picking bits of alien grid out of [TS]

  windows and you know that there are [TS]

  consequences right like that is I agree [TS]

  that that is into brilliant setup for a [TS]

  villain to give him an idea to give him [TS]

  a motivation that you know as we we [TS]

  talked about i think on some of the [TS]

  daredevil podcast you know every great [TS]

  villain is the hero of their own story [TS]

  and so you know you know Wilson Fisk in [TS]

  this case is really has a good he had [TS]

  heart he has a good idea [TS]

  he's accomplishing it through some [TS]

  really really awful manners and perhaps [TS]

  his motives are not entirely pure but he [TS]

  has he has a goal and he has a vision [TS]

  right and that and that is something [TS]

  that makes him so so eminently watchable [TS]

  is the fact that he's set out to do [TS]

  something not merely to be a cartoon [TS]

  villain or to oppose a hero but like he [TS]

  has a plan and he is working towards [TS]

  ends he has genuine belief system right [TS]

  exactly it's just I like how they're [TS]

  making him so rich and so fully fully [TS]

  washer and yeah oh yeah cuz cuz like [TS]

  don't like an arrow Malcolm Merlyn is [TS]

  one of my favorite characters mostly [TS]

  because John barrels a cartoon yes what [TS]

  did cartoon again John camels jock yeah [TS]

  John Barrowman basically place them is [TS]

  like a living cartoon figure and it's [TS]

  hilarious and great i love it but on [TS]

  this show and I what I really like is [TS]

  how everybody has nuanced um even foggy [TS]

  like we're getting into you know that [TS]

  that that the the complicated so we're [TS]

  going to a few the complicated shades of [TS]

  the relationship he has with matt where [TS]

  it's not all I'm just here's a sidekick [TS]

  and you know he's he's pretty aware of [TS]

  the glaring inequalities in their [TS]

  character and their talents and he's [TS]

  having a hard time reconciling himself [TS]

  to that and I think that's going to be [TS]

  super interesting to watch two and I [TS]

  like that they're carefully lay down all [TS]

  of this all of the stuff so early on [TS]

  like it's some of the super glory like I [TS]

  really have a hard time with a knife [TS]

  made from someone's rib [TS]

  the Russians so yeah how do you feel [TS]

  about car doors Lisa yeah yeah [TS]

  Oh of your hands especially taco oh yeah [TS]

  oh yeah I was just like oh my gosh is [TS]

  this this is netflix low but like what I [TS]

  also love that is how it takes place [TS]

  after like one of the most excruciating [TS]

  awkward first dates and what I really [TS]

  love is when the Russian crashes that [TS]

  day and like everyone in the restaurant [TS]

  stands up and like oh my god this [TS]

  completely packed this restaurant then [TS]

  forces and he's trying to play it cool [TS]

  so I it's just great [TS]

  yeah Jason most yet when you know [TS]

  because really this kind of started for [TS]

  me when you and and Tim good we're [TS]

  talking about it and you know the [TS]

  preconceived notion was that it was [TS]

  blood porn at tennis with him that's [TS]

  what Tim called he thought that this [TS]

  even tonight coming off of the Spartacus [TS]

  was you know putting in like lots of [TS]

  lots of fights and showing lots of blood [TS]

  and like people people like that kind of [TS]

  show and and he kind of wrote it often [TS]

  and didn't buy that he was dodging all [TS]

  those bullets all of that which I i [TS]

  found effective in lowering my [TS]

  expectations going in and then being [TS]

  quite pleasantly surprised yeah well I [TS]

  mean and so now you would say it's its [TS]

  way you get your needle class 1 the [TS]

  other way [TS]

  oh yeah I mean oh but when we were [TS]

  talking about i haven't seen it yet i [TS]

  was taking his word for it no I I think [TS]

  it's good i think it's really good i [TS]

  don't like a lot i'm really enjoying it [TS]

  I like it more than Tim did but i think [TS]

  i'm still closer to Tim that's something [TS]

  that's fine it's well done [TS]

  it's just not my kind of my cup of tea [TS]

  well you can't where you can watch it [TS]

  with the kids [TS]

  no you definitely can't and I can't walk [TS]

  I can't binge-watch it honestly I can't [TS]

  watch more than one of the time I just [TS]

  do that's why I that's why I'm only 18 [TS]

  mine in is bringing us here [TS]

  I just can't get violence I've been [TS]

  totally in your to violence thanks to [TS]

  decorate my upbringing at video games [TS]

  movies so I watched four times your [TS]

  competitive advantage of the future of [TS]

  America everybody jason is seeing it in [TS]

  4k so i am also your blood actually [TS]

  working four days in the blood [TS]

  yeah it's a lot of blood case [TS]

  and once again the blood but it's it's [TS]

  it's really good night I i well I was [TS]

  also just a little skeptical of them [TS]

  they're like oh yeah we're gonna do some [TS]

  shows on netflix and ready four of them [TS]

  and they're gonna kind of being are [TS]

  linked together and I thought okay well [TS]

  we'll see but he just seemed so nebulous [TS]

  and weird and like are these going to be [TS]

  crappier there's going to be cheap and [TS]

  if daredevil is any indication know [TS]

  they're actually the I now the bar has [TS]

  been raised for me where I am going to [TS]

  expect a lot more for Lucas doesn't [TS]

  generally it will be it will be [TS]

  interesting because a lot of those are [TS]

  much more special effects heavy in terms [TS]

  of I feel like those characters I mean [TS]

  iron fists like there's certainly [TS]

  martial arts the part of punches girls [TS]

  yes it's lovely through mystical [TS]

  spiritual stuff going on there [TS]

  depends on how much value yeah but you [TS]

  gotta differentiate it from daredevil [TS]

  right because it can just be another guy [TS]

  running around punching actually was one [TS]

  can see so that's only like a baby like [TS]

  thing over his face it's gonna come food [TS]

  though that kungfu you can do anything [TS]

  you want look we saw we saw you know [TS]

  madam gal do a one-inch punch so having [TS]

  yeah you are that's the thing with iron [TS]

  fist it could be it could be all back [TS]

  alleys or could be like surprise where [TS]

  the mystical City and I'm like chatting [TS]

  with the Dragon you know yeah I i guess [TS]

  my guess is it's gonna be street-level [TS]

  I'm fit seems like probably there's not [TS]

  going to be as many like conference [TS]

  calls with dragons buttonholed though [TS]

  again if you don't want them all to be [TS]

  totally identical right you don't want [TS]

  another daredevil you want iron fist to [TS]

  have a different friend Luke Cage to [TS]

  have it if you don't want iron fist to [TS]

  just be the daredevil like four blocks [TS]

  over [TS]

  yeah not a very compelling story you [TS]

  know hell's kitchen needs a lot of [TS]

  superheroes guys they cross in an alley [TS]

  there's a scene where one of those [TS]

  running one way and one of those really [TS]

  the other way okay [TS]

  hey I and daredevil also the critical [TS]

  acclaim and people watching it it got it [TS]

  got renewed for a second season which is [TS]

  funny because the way they pitched it [TS]

  was really like we're just going to do a [TS]

  season of each of these not that if [TS]

  there would be any hope for more and [TS]

  they're like no there's gonna be more so [TS]

  that's interesting too [TS]

  I i really i could have taken it as just [TS]

  one season and said okay I think [TS]

  conceive that way [TS]

  yeah i mean and adventures part of it is [TS]

  that it was that like it was an up [TS]

  basically an origin story over you know [TS]

  13 episodes [TS]

  I mean it was you know you can't do that [TS]

  on you know quote regular TV right yeah [TS]

  once again in future episodes provides a [TS]

  stronger framework for putting your [TS]

  stories on now [TS]

  well so they'll follow it up with AK [TS]

  jessica jones and i can't in the ball [TS]

  looking forward to that [TS]

  that's with krysten ritter is jessica [TS]

  jones and david tennant as kilgrave the [TS]

  purple band blah and I believe Luke [TS]

  eight makes his debut in that as well i [TS]

  think so i would think so yeah now that [TS]

  got to do it Chris crystal river is so [TS]

  funny to she's gonna be great [TS]

  I'm not looking for the crossover [TS]

  potential for that too just because a [TS]

  funny is always good [TS]

  also things we have to look forward to [TS]

  this fall or not depending on your your [TS]

  inclination CBS is doing with greg [TS]

  berlanti as one of the executive [TS]

  producers is doing Supergirl they're [TS]

  also adding to the arrow and flash [TS]

  universe with dc's legends of tomorrow [TS]

  which is a midseason it starts in [TS]

  January and Lucifer which is where we [TS]

  can get that John Constantine comes back [TS]

  and says hey remember me i was on the [TS]

  cancelled show on NBC [TS]

  if it i think Lucifer is gonna stink [TS]

  yeah yeah i think the upper gonna be fun [TS]

  and I haven't had so the pilots leaked [TS]

  haven't seen it at all of so I'm only [TS]

  going off the trailer the trailer that's [TS]

  cut from the pilot yeah which seemed [TS]

  fine maybe a little too [TS]

  yeah and i'm trying to think of the [TS]

  right adjective here because it's not [TS]

  catering it's maybe tendering to Gilmore [TS]

  Girls set a little bit but I don't carry [TS]

  it seems good you say that like it's a [TS]

  bad thing you like to go but I don't [TS]

  think it is a bad thing I mean you could [TS]

  say that about Lee which was guess what [TS]

  a huge hit and everybody loved it and we [TS]

  got a lot of fun actors out of it so I [TS]

  feel like there's a lot of complaints [TS]

  about the supergirl trailer but I mean [TS]

  the trailers really just all they have [TS]

  to work with is the pilot and so they [TS]

  cut it up and the Ark of the pilot very [TS]

  clearly if you watch that trailer is [TS]

  she's in the job she hates and she you [TS]

  know she's she did her bosses is [TS]

  annoying and you know she she's in this [TS]

  bad situation and then she you know [TS]

  embraces her superpowers and saves a [TS]

  plane and decides she's gonna be [TS]

  Supergirl [TS]

  I i don't think i ever the show is not [TS]

  going to be like that that's the pilot [TS]

  and then she's Supergirl after that so [TS]

  even watching the trailer you know it [TS]

  sets up all these sort of you know chick [TS]

  flick rom-com clichés and then knock [TS]

  them all down and and exactly yeah and [TS]

  everyone complaining about the trailer [TS]

  is focusing on the clichés and I'm [TS]

  sitting there going yeah it's going to [TS]

  subvert every one of them and it's going [TS]

  to make fun of the fact that those are [TS]

  old cliches and then I don't have a [TS]

  totally good totally gonna be the other [TS]

  thing is is that all of these clichés [TS]

  are just as true for Clark Kent [TS]

  yes like her civilian character being [TS]

  whose name I forget a carrot everything [TS]

  yeah basically being the like ugly betty [TS]

  with the glasses think that's Clark Kent [TS]

  is Clark Kent it's the same truck like [TS]

  it [TS]

  good Jimmy Olsen james james jimmy james [TS]

  also pays her watcher or when I think [TS]

  you're going to get it seems that way [TS]

  but he seems to be included into [TS]

  everything so i made the joke Ali mix [TS]

  Supergirl but i think they intentionally [TS]

  put Calista Flockhart in there to to [TS]

  sort of emphasize that also I believe [TS]

  that they've also cast helen slater & [TS]

  Dean Cain because greg berlanti likes [TS]

  bringing people back old franchise [TS]

  working over the relationship so why not [TS]

  listen I'm onboard dc's legends of [TS]

  tomorrow is the is the spinoff from [TS]

  arrow and flash that you're so stupid [TS]

  excited about you go [TS]

  yeah super finding it looks super fun [TS]

  looks very doctor who wish to me like [TS]

  traveling through time I'll make and [TS]

  having it and rip hunter and they get [TS]

  Rory an army doctor what are the [TS]

  daughter will die this time making die [TS]

  every time Dan time travel [TS]

  that's right that's right i didn't do [TS]

  anything you want yeah with time travel [TS]

  and Adam and half of firestorm don't [TS]

  know what the deal is going to be with [TS]

  that again i don't know i think it seems [TS]

  to me that they going to wait at the [TS]

  other ml at Robbie Amell well it's [TS]

  unclear to me I my theory is that is [TS]

  that he may have a series or a pilot [TS]

  commitment where they can't cast him or [TS]

  or or they tried to cast him and he will [TS]

  do it and so they're going to have some [TS]

  sort of plot contrivance that that's my [TS]

  theory is some-something as killers a [TS]

  large number that there's one character [TS]

  who is like a mystery hero who has not [TS]

  said [TS]

  they've not said anything about him in [TS]

  the the theories going on the engineer [TS]

  that he is the new author half of fire [TS]

  yet because there is a shot of a cgi [TS]

  firestorm in a fight scene and I cannot [TS]

  picture Victor girl you're right but [TS]

  it's not because I fuckers there are [TS]

  moments that would be awesome [TS]

  I don't set that there may be an episode [TS]

  of the flash early next year early next [TS]

  season where they were they [TS]

  you know free her be her husband they [TS]

  got married right and and yet the [TS]

  firestorm power gets transferred to [TS]

  somebody or something who knows but it [TS]

  looks like a lot of fun it's like a [TS]

  heroes and villains are going to unite [TS]

  to fight some crazy time-travel battle [TS]

  that excitement just do that [TS]

  yea networks but why would you think of [TS]

  anyone would be interested [TS]

  I support this new system where we're [TS]

  the millers on all the shows i watch [TS]

  this is good [TS]

  there is no piece of scenery too big for [TS]

  him to eat and that is very I know he [TS]

  has I've come all the way around on that [TS]

  characters like yeah getting more [TS]

  captain cold i'm there for that and then [TS]

  I like I really like this has been a [TS]

  really good stuff for the railings and i [TS]

  love the Arthur Darvill wine where he's [TS]

  like I'm from London [TS]

  oh and the future nice i just wish you [TS]

  all knew him in high school that's all [TS]

  I'm saying they were all different [TS]

  people i think we all benefit from not [TS]

  knowing him in high school and 99 do has [TS]

  kelley through television no camera yeah [TS]

  exactly if we had known bj novak in high [TS]

  school Tony than you know this might be [TS]

  a very different world [TS]

  ya say we we have reached the end I [TS]

  think but there's a lot to talk about [TS]

  lots of fun if you like that if you like [TS]

  the superhero comic book geek and TV [TS]

  shows now is what a time to be alive is [TS]

  what I'm saying [TS]

  so I'd like to thank my participants [TS]

  tonight from the flash cast which are [TS]

  you guys going to do you get going to do [TS]

  any bonus episodes the summer before [TS]

  season 2 comes in the fall [TS]

  recently we've heard from the people and [TS]

  they would like us to go back and [TS]

  backfilling back in time yes because we [TS]

  gave him the option of backfill or the [TS]

  nineties flash and they chose wisely ya [TS]

  goin up and so far that the sentiment [TS]

  has been running about 19 in favor of [TS]

  the like basically 95% favorite going [TS]

  having a scope and back for the first [TS]

  two episodes and and five percenter like [TS]

  I would like to see you suffer so [TS]

  listeners that five percent you're on a [TS]

  listener yeah yeah this is a two-minute [TS]

  audience else we can figure out the time [TS]

  commitment for this because I would love [TS]

  it if we could basically get it up to [TS]

  read when season to start cycles so Lisa [TS]

  thank you for being here on this this [TS]

  was so much cuter when I got to talk [TS]

  about [TS]

  I got some arrow which the podcast I've [TS]

  never been fighting on no wait [TS]

  yeah if you guys had you not even i'm [TS]

  just gonna blame him [TS]

  nevermind it's guys guys fault dad it's [TS]

  not like we don't want to talk about the [TS]

  flash all the time [TS]

  yeah Mo's thank you thank you for being [TS]

  on the mother Zeppelin too and thanks [TS]

  for shepherding thank you for [TS]

  shepherding the daredevil rewind as well [TS]

  as being on the flash cast it's been a [TS]

  very it's been a retreat and honor and a [TS]

  privilege it's a it's been a lot of fun [TS]

  listening I enjoy listening to those [TS]

  podcasts and it's also a really great [TS]

  for me to listen to uncomfortable i [TS]

  guess i'm not on don't have to edit [TS]

  that's not Tony thank you as well for [TS]

  being here and for talking about the [TS]

  flashing your conspiracy corner that's [TS]

  what it's what I do tonight [TS]

  Superfriends and from the speedy arrow [TS]

  cast two of the three members of the [TS]

  speedier cast were here at Dan Morgan [TS]

  thank you as always my pleasure and tune [TS]

  in the summer as we do our recaps of [TS]

  earlier episodes we have jon moulton [TS]

  Lisa Schmeisser so and I kicked out also [TS]

  died English guy English thank you for [TS]

  being I can't get guy I'm just trying to [TS]

  absorb some harsh news here [TS]

  ok that's good news well no it's good [TS]

  news you don't have to go back and watch [TS]

  season already done that he's already [TS]

  watched it like three times how to do it [TS]

  again it's actually buy I standby sees [TS]

  one actually simulate it kills a lot of [TS]

  guys that before he says my name is [TS]

  Oliver Queen and I may have killed too [TS]

  many guys I like episode with the [TS]

  villain whose strategy is that he brings [TS]

  more henchmen than the arrow has arrows [TS]

  that murders like 25 guys is like how [TS]

  many [TS]

  arrows mr. Barrow County got plenty [TS]

  county kc your your third tier [TS]

  supervillains bring more bullets than [TS]

  arrows and that's against a workout and [TS]

  data lawyer who is not part of any of [TS]

  that [TS]

  thank you for being here 20 time to go [TS]

  David lower founder of the supergirl [TS]

  recap I can you know yeah there it is [TS]

  here it is a lima Supergirl sooner girl [TS]

  and everybody out there thanks for [TS]

  listening we hope that you enjoyed this [TS]

  and if there are shows that you are now [TS]

  intrigued by that we talked about in [TS]

  swellview only mildly about 15 to listen [TS]

  to them here where I can watch them [TS]

  they're fun and it was one time to watch [TS]

  this miguel go watch Constantine don't [TS]

  do that don't do it and we will see you [TS]

  next time thank you for listening [TS]

  comfortable [TS]

  everybody let me ask you a question do [TS]

  you like the incomparable you're [TS]

  listening to it now did you know that we [TS]

  do a whole bunch of other podcasts that [TS]

  are kinda like the incomparable but they [TS]

  have lots of other people on and talk [TS]

  about other things and mean that you [TS]

  have more than one thing you can listen [TS]

  to in a week we do you could listen to [TS]

  let's say lazy Doctor Who starting [TS]

  Stephen and Erica these titles and I [TS]

  think it's funny that doctor whose [TS]

  penchant for spoiler if entitles started [TS]

  really really really because you get you [TS]

  get the escape [TS]

  yeah where they escaped at the end and [TS]

  then this time we watched oh yeah we [TS]

  should probably say what we watched the [TS]

  ambush ambush episode 4 [TS]

  yep yeah of the dollar girl or possibly [TS]

  the mutants depending on which witch [TS]

  thing you're looking at we don't need to [TS]

  go into that again about me and Tim [TS]

  Goodman from the hollywood reporter on [TS]

  the TV talk machine the first episode is [TS]

  called kidnapping two point O looking [TS]

  forward to that house everyday prasad [TS]

  kidnapping from yesterday that you're [TS]

  going to the second episode is [TS]

  apparently titled all capital letters [TS]

  cmnd colon slash crash which is not a [TS]

  thing I know it looks like a computer [TS]

  anything not a saying that's not a thing [TS]

  that exists anywhere i have a feeling I [TS]

  won't be watching the second episode of [TS]

  CSI cyber [TS]

  I will watch later we're gonna make you [TS]

  watch what you say not a thing [TS]

  Oh to watch that episode details here [TS]

  all the things that were not going oh my [TS]

  god you guys what I were to be ok we [TS]

  will inaugurate the CSI cyber challenge [TS]

  this week i will watch kidnapping two [TS]

  point O and report back to you John [TS]

  Syracuse and I debate whether things are [TS]

  a robot or not what do we know about [TS]

  transformers Jason one the robots in [TS]

  disguise Autobots bridge the battle to [TS]

  destroy the evil forces of the [TS]

  Decepticons my god it's right there in [TS]

  the song there are robots why they look [TS]

  like cars there in disguise [TS]

  yes that's a real podcast Scott McNulty [TS]

  has gas on random track every week [TS]

  talking star trek anytime guided [TS]

  meditation or lucid dreaming happens I [TS]

  get annoyed instant now [TS]

  ok tell it was mildly annoying to me but [TS]

  tell me can I ask you why just because [TS]

  what [TS]

  no I guided meditation should know later [TS]

  bodies are what if the guided meditation [TS]

  as a concept does not bother me right as [TS]

  a plot tool as a plateau whenever they [TS]

  do it it's it's a red flag to me either [TS]

  lucid dreaming if Kota is a check okay [TS]

  episode and guided meditation if it's a [TS]

  Vulcan episode because it's like [TS]

  shorthand for spiritualism and just kind [TS]

  of annoying and when they show it like [TS]

  I've never been guided in meditation so [TS]

  maybe i just am unfamiliar with it but I [TS]

  feel like it doesn't happen the way they [TS]

  showed in this episode there's the new [TS]

  incomparable game show in a distant [TS]

  future where water is scarce a band of [TS]

  Buccaneers tries to return cursed [TS]

  treasure that renders them and morphol [TS]

  so it's the Pirates hollows is it space [TS]

  pirates of the current zone as it is it [TS]

  ice pirates the ice pirates of the [TS]

  caribbean give me the first the full [TS]

  title [TS]

  ok it's it's the ice pirates of the [TS]

  caribbean the curse of the black pearl [TS]

  10 points [TS]

  well done the way down out a regular TV [TS]

  reviews so if he were just some guy with [TS]

  with mommy and daddy issues that might [TS]

  be interesting but we have to always [TS]

  remember is he I think the reason he's [TS]

  doing all of this crime is because he [TS]

  has a vision and so when Madame GAO's [TS]

  supply is not flowing it's not that he's [TS]

  not going to make his duckets to be able [TS]

  to afford another SUV if that it's [TS]

  impeding his vision of being able to [TS]

  make the city that the way the things [TS]

  that needs to be and like what greater [TS]

  villain could you have clinical and then [TS]

  somebody who has a vision that they [TS]

  think they need to see through that [TS]

  that's it's so great and you know it's [TS]

  for you just mentioned the whole vision [TS]

  thing because it he is on a long game [TS]

  and at the end the day he was not out of [TS]

  control he did it systematically for [TS]

  reason to start a war [TS]

  anthony johnson and guests defend the [TS]

  unjustly maligned so i started watching [TS]

  worship and she came into the room one [TS]

  day and she was like are you watching [TS]

  Murder She Wrote [TS]

  haha [TS]

  and I said yes I am and she said oh my [TS]

  grandmother loved that show [TS]

  I feel like a lot of people's [TS]

  grandparents really loved murderer hurts [TS]

  Dungeons and Dragons action on total [TS]

  party kill I came here for him the door [TS]

  was open i close the door and locked it [TS]

  behind me [TS]

  yes ok I've got my reasons [TS]

  how did you how did you get into the [TS]

  cabinet with doors are always locked the [TS]

  door was open when I walked in obviously [TS]

  and then these two suddenly i heard this [TS]

  loud exploding teak sound and these two [TS]

  came busting in the door role for [TS]

  deception Matthew cook and much more [TS]

  check it all out at the incomparable [TS]

  dot-com [TS]