The Accidental Tech Podcast

63: I Hold My Children To A Higher Standard


  Well live stream right now there are ones freaking out about what up Kris Allen found out when I live here [TS]

  and we do have some follow up something happened a few hours ago. [TS]

  Thank goodness because otherwise this would've been a short [TS]

  but yeah we do have some follow up so John Mitchell to tell us about how people do or do not play games. [TS]

  Yeah last week I mentioned the average age of gamers and none of us knew what it was [TS]

  and if someone wrote it in the chat room I didn't notice so I apologize for that [TS]

  but I looked it up so you know it's on our to find this information so here are the stats this is in regards to both of [TS]

  you saying that you have grown out of playing games [TS]

  and me saying that's ridiculous because most people who play games are even older than your adult. Wait hold on. [TS]

  Neither of us said we grew out of games that that's going to get some feedback which already has which is not accurate. [TS]

  I don't remember the exact quote but it was something like you just felt like you were out of it [TS]

  or anyway everyone responding think that's what you said. [TS]

  Obviously the miscommunication and you can feel free to clarify because I keep saying I agree with K.C. [TS]

  and Marco I also grew out of games like we're seeing those responses again that doesn't mean that's what you said I [TS]

  mean what we both said was was that we didn't see games that we didn't see games as like a juvenile thing that you [TS]

  would grow out of but rather we play games for a long time and then we you know in recent years [TS]

  or weren't you know after we left college or whatever we just didn't choose to spend our time playing games [TS]

  or didn't have the time to plug into anymore so it's not necessarily a growing out of it because that implies that it's [TS]

  not like a juvenile thing it's it's more that we just chose not to spend our time doing that anymore. [TS]

  Yeah I would agree that our priorities shifted. [TS]

  It's like the same result but with with a different reason [TS]

  and with with less judgment in the reason nationally one of you said I don't know I guess I just grew out of it I'm a [TS]

  bit of a joke and yes later you did say that these markers are that you didn't think they were juvenile or anything [TS]

  but everyone latched on to the growing up thing. [TS]

  Here is the information I was trying to get across is that the average age of gamers and none of us knew what it was. [TS]

  The average age of game players according to the Entertainment Software Association which is trade association attracts [TS]

  the type of things video games is thirty one years old. [TS]

  This is this is the United States that only I think the only US anyway. [TS]

  The average age of the US population is thirty seven point two So yes the average age of the people in the United [TS]

  States is slightly older [TS]

  but I think that makes sense considering video games were introduced partially into the lives of many people who are [TS]

  alive today so you don't have a sample you know everyone alive wasn't born when video games are introduced the. [TS]

  The ratios are fifty two percent male forty eight percent female [TS]

  and out of the most frequent game purchases the ratios are exactly even fifty fifty male female they say fifty nine [TS]

  percent of Americans play video games. And here are some stats and breakdowns. [TS]

  Women over eighteen are thirty six percent boys eighteen [TS]

  or younger are seventeen percent so twice as many women twice as many adult women play games as juvenile boys do [TS]

  and if fifty one percent of U.S. [TS]

  Homes have given out so and there's an average of two game console in each house that has any. [TS]

  So like I said most game players are more or less our age. I'm older than thirty one. [TS]

  You guys are also both older than thirty one right. I am thirty one you know. [TS]

  So you're exactly the average age of a gamer [TS]

  and I think it makes sense because our people your age mark on my age are basically like video games were invented more [TS]

  or less when we were young by the time we were old enough to play them. They were popular. We played them. We grew up. [TS]

  We continue to play them. [TS]

  Whereas people who were you know thirty years old before the Atari twenty six hundred introduce are much less likely I [TS]

  think to have gotten into it so we are sort of the first generation of people to have grown up with games in a make [TS]

  sense that we continue to play them whereas the people who are sort of ahead of us may have never gotten into it at all [TS]

  and I think I made all these points and show people talking about growing out of games and stuff [TS]

  and tweeting about it and so on and saying well I do it I don't do it as much now as are you. [TS]

  Still you may grow out of the games that you played [TS]

  when you were a child in the same way you grow out of the books that you read [TS]

  or you don't read Little Golden Books anymore you don't watch a Hanna Barbera cartoons they were like there are many [TS]

  things you did as a child you grow out of but a Video games are a medium and they're fairly diverse [TS]

  and so even though you of course you don't have the time to play games that used to be you know time to do anything [TS]

  enough time to just pick any any sort of leisure time activity you do for him or time that when you're a kid. [TS]

  But as you get older you will like different games just like you like different movies [TS]

  and different television shows and different books [TS]

  and that I think is natural I think a lot of the people who say well I grew out of games you know all I do now is [TS]

  and then they insert like the three games that they play but I barely have time for that. [TS]

  Well yes of course you barely have time for that if you're still playing games like that [TS]

  and you didn't really grow out of games just grew out of the games that you played as a child. [TS]

  It's true that some people never go out of the game they played as a child maybe they're plates of murders a child they [TS]

  love tomorrow to this day and they keep playing it that's fine too. [TS]

  Same thing with books I mean how many adults out there really young adult books as like you know [TS]

  and love them like the Harry Potter series is a good example [TS]

  or a lot of these things even like the hunger games I like that a lot of these books are technically young adult books [TS]

  that many adults enjoy them today not to grow out of that should they have grown out of books [TS]

  and they have grown out of those specific books I don't think that's an important distinction [TS]

  but the idea that games are something that most people played when they were a kid [TS]

  and don't play anymore I think is not borne out by the statistics at least in the United States. [TS]

  Do people count as gamers if they just have like Angry Birds on their phones versus like a console game or a P.C. [TS]

  Game like is there a distinction should there be a distinction and maybe the answer is no. [TS]

  But should there be a distinction between like people who have a couple of casual games on their phone versus people [TS]

  who like you know own dedicated gaming hardware or have bought like a forty [TS]

  or fifty dollar game before I don't think they're making those kind of distinctions I think they consider all games [TS]

  games and so what I like I don't. If you cycle. [TS]

  I don't play games all I do is [TS]

  when you insert some I was game that you obsessed we played every moment of spare time like yeah you play games. [TS]

  They do add information on console that you would consider the like that's not casual right I don't know if that's [TS]

  still AAA [TS]

  and the thing is a fifty one percent of homes have a game console in them somewhere in those homes as playing those [TS]

  games right. [TS]

  And so you know it's not like well thirty one percent on the game console [TS]

  but the only only Google Play game console are the seventeen percent of gamers who are male [TS]

  and younger than eighteen like that seems unlikely [TS]

  but anyway I count them all as games like there's plenty of legitimate games [TS]

  and I us I mean maybe they're not counting like solitaire and minesweeper [TS]

  but I think maybe these days those sort of fallen by the wayside [TS]

  but I don't I don't think there's a useful distinction between it was not a real game as like I am that's not a real [TS]

  book that's just a I don't know mystery novel romance novel do those not count as real books [TS]

  or something it has to be Tolstoy game as a game as a game. [TS]

  Fair enough I actually do have a question for you does Tina get involved in any of the video gaming around your house. [TS]

  She plays games on her phone a lot and I think that's where she plays a majority of her games [TS]

  but at various times she has been very into as an adult very very into both console games and computer games. [TS]

  But these days any time I have I don't want to reveal her dirty gaming secrets [TS]

  but so many certain I was games that have the ability to get their hooks into people have gotten their hooks into her [TS]

  and so she is very susceptible to that and I don't approve of most of the games that she plays [TS]

  but she definitely has a place for your kids because I know your son. [TS]

  Last I heard is really and Minecraft is that still the case. You know it's Minecraft it destroyed his life and ours. [TS]

  Here we had a very diverse gaming education up until the age of you know I guess nine sometime in his ninth year of [TS]

  life Minecraft came and destroyed everything else having to do with life. He is obsessed with Minecraft. [TS]

  As he played any game other than mine recently I don't think so. [TS]

  He's totally obsessed and neither your son or daughter got into the way you very much. [TS]

  Well I mean that's when his friends come over he plays the way you would his friends giving us [TS]

  and you know Minecraft is not as much of a social game. So he does still play that and I assume then the next. [TS]

  Recently I've been playing games that he can't play with me [TS]

  but I'm assuming the next game that we can all play together comes out hell play with me like been exiled a game [TS]

  or a body clock I can't remember the name anymore because the last guardian of that ever comes out he'll play that with [TS]

  me but he's not clamoring to play those games we have all the game console hooked up [TS]

  and I've been playing games on more than he has. [TS]

  But yeah like it's like it's natural for kids is age to get obsessed with things like this [TS]

  and just as Marco says Total Annihilation units [TS]

  and everything you do have a certain point you get really into one game like yeah you like lots of games [TS]

  and then a certain certain game comes and absorbs you [TS]

  and this is happening with my grand my daughter I keep trying to get her to play games many many times on many [TS]

  different console than on the computer should play a little bit of kind of casual games and I was [TS]

  but she's just not into it and I want to really push it but I keep I keep putting them for an error [TS]

  and I actually had a play Monument Valley in that I think was about her speed someplace. She just turned seven. [TS]

  I did buy that game [TS]

  and have not even opened it like now ever since I was six I believe added the new badge on apps so that you could tell [TS]

  if you have an app you've never launched before I've really been shamed by those badges on my phone because it's all [TS]

  games and there's like there's probably right now my phone probably had like seven [TS]

  or eight games that I bought in the last six months that I haven't even launched yet [TS]

  but I want to be a gamer in theory but I never decide to spend the time doing that. [TS]

  And Monument Valley is actually a great example of an application that takes advantage of retina. [TS]

  If they go to the matter for games who cares after those a low rez three doing scaled up. [TS]

  But this minor value has graphics that really benefit from from the retina resolution because they're just such a [TS]

  beautiful little finely detailed things it's not it's not like a typical three D. [TS]

  Game or stuff flying all over the place it's just you know it's very precise and it looks great [TS]

  and right now I think the game itself. I think it's more of a casual game. [TS]

  I think it is very beautiful and interesting [TS]

  but it's way too easy for anyone who's actually you know experienced gamer and plays games a lot [TS]

  and as a little bit short I really care about like there's like I'm buying it for the length of it was short [TS]

  and so I feel like I just should have a little bit more there in terms of the the overall expect maybe if it was harder [TS]

  and I had more of a challenge [TS]

  but I recommend it for lots of people who you know who find the games that I enjoy too challenging so I think that's [TS]

  why I had my daughter play is like well you'll be able to play this you'll be able to to do well [TS]

  and it will challenge you a little bit. [TS]

  I think you'd be bored by Margot but you still just want to just look at the graphics because like I said it is. [TS]

  It's the rare game that I can even imagine on a non retina screen being half as nice looking. [TS]

  So you said that it it's probably way too easy for an experienced gamer. [TS]

  So now a little concern that I won't be able to handle you well if I think I need to try it I haven't bought it yet I [TS]

  keep forgetting about it any time I'm sitting in front of my phone or i Pad just goofing off [TS]

  and so I need to get it although I may I don't know like maybe my things are skewed as I have seen tweets from people [TS]

  talking about like not so much getting stuck [TS]

  but having difficulty I can't tell if they're joking so maybe my idea of what's difficult [TS]

  and what's not is totally skewed so [TS]

  when you should just play it like just play through two levels will take you five minutes. [TS]

  Just tell me it was not like there's almost no choice like it leads you. [TS]

  It's it is very linear there's not many places that you can go wrong and the same could be said of journey [TS]

  but like it's different you know. Anyway try to do homework for you to try to first. [TS]

  A levels and it takes me thirty five minutes [TS]

  and I not admit it will not that of the first level to get thirty seconds to tell you about two minutes. [TS]

  One more quick theory about about gaming and losing interesting game in overtime [TS]

  and maybe this is just me I don't know and John I'm sure going to have a good explanation for this. [TS]

  I've found that one of the biggest factors I think that got me out of gaming [TS]

  and maybe just coincidence because it overlapped my age progression in my work progression. [TS]

  But one of the things I think got me out of gaming is so many of the types of games that I enjoyed. [TS]

  I fell out of favor and you know we would get almost none of them made anymore so for example I love to T. [TS]

  Platformer games sonic Mario any of the good to the performers I love those. [TS]

  But almost nobody makes two platforms anymore and incorrect. Well hold on hold on. And I did put it also want to X. [TS]

  Box Live. Shadow Complex I think is cool. I did put out one and loved it. [TS]

  And so you know for a while and maybe maybe now the indie scene is getting as back fortunately [TS]

  but for a while like once the three D. [TS]

  Systems came out the Play Station the N sixty four the Saturn it became like two the platform is basically one extinct [TS]

  for a while and the same thing happened with R.T.S. Games where I loved R.T.S. [TS]

  Games as you mentioned I told my Lucian phase earlier love their P.S. [TS]

  Games through my through almost my entire teenage hood and that's a word and. And then R.T.S. [TS]

  This kind of stuff being made very well after maybe two thousand three thousand four ish like supreme commander was it [TS]

  was like a big one it was awesome but nobody bought it and then they kind of went by the wayside as fantasy [TS]

  and M M O's kind of took over. And so if that kind of bothered me too. [TS]

  And and now like Iowa and I also I also love turn based tragic games but those are very few and far between. [TS]

  Almost never commercial hits [TS]

  and now with I.O.U.'s like some of the best casual games is you know are they used to be great [TS]

  and I want to get in for like five bucks and they were awesome and now they've all been ruined with freemium [TS]

  and free to play all that crap [TS]

  and so I wonder like you know is this just me am I am I just kind of missing the new stuff because I stop looking [TS]

  around like I do with P.H.P. [TS]

  or Is this like is this a legitimate reason why I've been kind of kicked out of gaming for a while. [TS]

  I don't know but there's two things there one there are John or has that become more [TS]

  and less popular time to think of it in terms of movies like murder mystery movies where the whole plot of the movie A [TS]

  summer is murdered you had to figure out who it is you don't see a lot of them anymore. [TS]

  Used to see some of them but like that that genre has become less popular it does happen [TS]

  and it comes in cycles you know what's popular now may not be what's popular fifty years from now [TS]

  and goes around circles on that front by the way there isn't a setting correct for the two to games that right now [TS]

  there's a massive Renaissance into the platform research on a particular like because I'm not into treaty platforms [TS]

  but they're all the place and not just in the game. [TS]

  Intend to bring out a brand new team Marielle games that I enjoy way less than the three D. [TS]

  Versions [TS]

  and there's just a constant stream of them in those are not in the things those are like you know they're their flagship [TS]

  titles and tons of indie ones so if you're into two D. [TS]

  Platforming like you cannot throw a rock without hitting to the platform. [TS]

  But one of the gunners you mentioned real time strategy. [TS]

  The type of real time strategy I'm talking about like I symmetric sprite based you know two D. [TS]

  Map kind of thing like before the age of three D. Hey wait hang on a second. [TS]

  Put on my leash and it was none of those by the way go ahead. [TS]

  All right I don't know what that into your real time strategy games are but yes they eventually went through anyway. [TS]

  They became less popular a lot of the reason they became less popular is because computers became more able to do the [TS]

  john or is that became more pop. [TS]

  So once first person shooters start to take over the entire universe and you could do any John [TS]

  or in first person perspective so there was first person everything real time strategy games became less popular. [TS]

  They're still out there I mean they're still Starcraft they're the things that they've kind of you know that same type [TS]

  perspective you see not that you know the album is not a real time strategy game [TS]

  but a similar perspective in that you're looking down on I well it's like a little board and clicking on people [TS]

  and doing things. [TS]

  Yeah if you get really into a particular game [TS]

  and a particular genre in a pretty particular implementation of that genre because people like oh I like real time [TS]

  strategy games but I don't like they want to do X. Y. and Z. [TS]

  Only like the ones that like what I was I think it was a myth on a Paschal about how much I liked him so different now [TS]

  there are D.S. [TS]

  Games if you're into those specifics you may have to wait for another one of those things to come around [TS]

  but what I would say is that the things you like about that type of game. [TS]

  Exist in other games [TS]

  and you shouldn't really be married to the genre like if you just like watching Murder Mysteries It's like what it what [TS]

  is it that I like about murder mysteries. [TS]

  Do I like the fact that someone gets killed [TS]

  and I get the same thing out of a Harmon we do like the fact that this is Spence [TS]

  and I could get it out of a different kind of thriller or am I just looking for a puzzle that I have to solve [TS]

  and that I should be watching. [TS]

  You know [TS]

  and I'm on movies with a stupid twist I mean like what you were getting out of those games are things you enjoy systemizing [TS]

  things micro-managing things you know do you enjoy like working the tech trees there's a lot of games you can play now [TS]

  perhaps like a role playing game with a big crafting trian like character development you may be able to get the same [TS]

  experiences out of different types of games or maybe that you just really like real time strategy [TS]

  and he does the wait until something like that becomes popular again. [TS]

  That's conceivable too [TS]

  and he says the same thing in every other medium you know what kind of books are popular now what kind of movies are [TS]

  kind of T.V. Shows I mean look at T.V. Program a lot of you are totally into for me like half an hour sitcoms. [TS]

  They're so hard to find out just like everyone has to have some sort of twist [TS]

  or angle in the one hour drama is you know hugely popular now. [TS]

  The one hour drama was like an aberration you know twenty thirty years ago. [TS]

  Now it's like everything has to be this gritty one hour drama like to make a show about Sleepy Hollow [TS]

  and it's like this big gritty thing you know. [TS]

  And whereas like the old sitcoms aren't they used to be everywhere now they're very rare [TS]

  and each one of them has some weird twist about them so I think that's part of it [TS]

  but I guess that gaming is not as broad as books movies or T.V. Is not yet anyway but it's getting close. [TS]

  But there's probably something out there that you would get the same type of enjoyment out of [TS]

  and who knows like maybe really go they don't make murder mystery movies anymore also [TS]

  and you start going to see like you know goofy comedies you may find out. I never watch T.V. [TS]

  Comedy where [TS]

  but I really enjoy them so there's a lot out there you know the funny thing for me is to take this aside just a smidge [TS]

  is that I find that I get really into certain games but only for a very small window of time [TS]

  and most recently it's been I.O.'s games but the I think I mentioned last episode [TS]

  or it might have that I played Metal Gear Solid through the whole way through I still love the Zelda games. [TS]

  Well I played a green of time and I don't think I ever had whatever it was for the week. [TS]

  But I'll find these games that I just are IM obsessed with some looking at my i Phone [TS]

  and i only have a handful games on there but like you know right [TS]

  when the i Phone came out I played the crap out of flight control for forever. [TS]

  When the incident came out I loved that letterpress loved that tiny wings ramp champ by the icon factory which is a [TS]

  much better game than anyone than a lot of people gave it credit for three days [TS]

  when I came out recently saw all these games I just kind of madly in love with them and I'll play them to death. [TS]

  Not only what I do when I find a song I just never looked back. [TS]

  So I haven't played threes in like a month and I was playing it non-stop for two or three weeks [TS]

  and maybe this is my personality but I know it's just the way I've approached seemingly. [TS]

  You're in the middle of the letter President me as me K.C. [TS]

  So any time you want to move six months I was that's a I've been hoping that that happened forever in fact it is bad [TS]

  like I still do enjoy it when I open it but I just never think about it anymore. [TS]

  And I think I heard Marco say that you're the same way like I get these obsessions [TS]

  but then just as quickly as I get the obsession then it's done. [TS]

  That's why I like with my limited time as an adult and a parent [TS]

  and all the other stuff the type of game that I gravitate to are two kinds one is the kind I can to spend for a couple [TS]

  of minutes of fun like whatever else is asynchronous turn based games like what aggressor or to friends [TS]

  and three's even a single player you know it's like yeah whatever just some quick fun [TS]

  and the other type of game I like is the kind kind of like the like to detective [TS]

  or than the new popular thing of one hour dramas that have a season long arc that that ends [TS]

  and then the cast changes as a couple shows doing that now [TS]

  and that I think is a good model because people like I don't want to invest in the show that could go on some X. [TS]

  Number of seasons I might not have a satisfying ending or whatever like where I met your mother or how to measure [TS]

  and watch a show [TS]

  but if people don't have a lot of time let's make it a one hour thing a one season arc that you will consume as a thing [TS]

  and be satisfied with [TS]

  and so the video games that are the non casual video games that I play are ones that are going to give me an experience [TS]

  for a defined amount of time and it's not going to be open ended [TS]

  and I'm going to play through it I mean not a side of their story based games whose journey is not really a story based [TS]

  game that's two hours a game play in an out like that is the perfect you know it's cheap I can get a little download [TS]

  amazingly enjoyable who may love two hours done and even something like The Last Of Us I think. [TS]

  I don't memory I was bored I may be sixteen or eleven or twenty and I remember what the stat was [TS]

  but that's a little bit longer [TS]

  but it's a single player there's a multiplayer aspect that I don't care about single player game with a story I play it [TS]

  has a beginning middle and end I'm done. [TS]

  It's not like I feel guilty like I never go back to yeah I finished it I played the game like there is a it is a unit [TS]

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  We've already sold a lot past the goal so this is awesome thank you very much [TS]

  and so these will definitely be printed and made they will make it in time for the U.S. For W.D.C. Probably. [TS]

  Internationally it depends on where you live. [TS]

  We've heard reports of some of them coming right before some of them right after so we can really guarantee [TS]

  internationally but in the U.S. They should be there in time to be ready See and. And yes so check it out. T. [TS]

  Spring dot com slash accidental or A.T.P. That F.M. Slash shirt and keep in mind that. Since we are so. [TS]

  The thought of it over us to pick a design that we like. [TS]

  If we have shirts next year it's very likely that it will be a different design. [TS]

  So even if you are some are living internationally [TS]

  or can't are going to see it all anyway don't worry so much about whether you're going to get in time for this year's [TS]

  day see if you order now you'll have it for next year and next year. Share it if there is one. [TS]

  Will very likely be different so this may be the only time to buy the shirt. [TS]

  You can decide whether that's a good or bad thing. [TS]

  When you look at the shirt [TS]

  but please do keep that in mind because tons of people keep asking me if they want to order a hypothetical shirts [TS]

  and I did have a girl here at the ready and I'm not sure I'm doing them again any time soon if ever [TS]

  and those people should've ordered when they were available herself I don't do this. [TS]

  Haven't you order something they're available for sale. You know I also wonder for those who are international. [TS]

  I have not tried this myself obviously [TS]

  but I wonder if you could arrange with your hotel hey would you accept a package for me. And so on and so forth. [TS]

  So you might even be able to get it delivered to your hotel. I know that is a possibility. [TS]

  So I mean the hotels usually will charge for that. But I know I notice possible. [TS]

  I did that one year to get a shirt delivered to convert to a hotel conference. But look into it anyway. [TS]

  And also because so T. [TS]

  Spring is kind of like Kickstarter where they have like you know the buying period for a limited time [TS]

  and then they do the whole run at once. They print them all and that's it. You can order them after that. [TS]

  So it is very unlikely I think that we'll get our act together and make a new design that we like in the next year [TS]

  or so. So definitely if you want if you're anytime between now and next May you could probably buy this one. [TS]

  All right thanks a lot. [TS]

  OK so we were actually I was a little nervous about not having a lot to talk about on the show [TS]

  and then just today Facebook decided to try their own hand at X. Callback U.R.L. [TS]

  Which was surprising for me anyway so they came out with Facebook app links and I should. [TS]

  We point out I guess it's the polls. [TS]

  So what is it like it's not a subsidiary of Facebook it's enough milieu with what poll says [TS]

  but I guess it came from there do you guys know what that is. OK good talk right. [TS]

  So apparently some like subsection for lack of a better way of phrasing it Facebook [TS]

  and they came up with appling says and so [TS]

  when you guys put this in the show notes it's probably for the best if I read this very quickly quote This is from [TS]

  their web site with uplinks Facebook wants to standardize deep linking to native apps by using special metadata. [TS]

  attached seizing added via H.T.M.L. [TS]

  The basic premise of Apple Inc is that if the user taps on a link on a mobile device [TS]

  and that link belongs to a Web site that in turn offers the same content in a native app with better features than a [TS]

  web view the link could automatically redirect the user to the app if installed on the App Store. [TS]

  With support for deep linking to content inside the app the goal according to Facebook actually considers [TS]

  and from the site anyway. [TS]

  According to Facebook is to provide the best experience to user who clicks a link on a mobile device with features to [TS]

  control what happens when a link is clicked on i OS Android or Windows Phone seven Frederica's right up actually. [TS]

  Yeah I think OK so this I pasted in this paragraph like first light I saw this Facebook appling thing like fifteen [TS]

  minutes ago so show stars I know very little about it [TS]

  but I pasted in this thing because it sounds like something I would never ever want the idea that I'm on a Web site [TS]

  and I tap on a link and it shoves me takes me out of the web browser puts me into an app [TS]

  and shoves me into some deep thing in the apple example the video is like so you're on a Web site you see a movie like [TS]

  human over the plain toward you tap on and the launch of the movie app [TS]

  and takes me into there about like I know example that gets annoying to have to go back to the home screen launcher [TS]

  taken by an app do the same search you just did on the web but like if I'm in a web site [TS]

  and I found the thing I would like to buy it there on the web I hate being I hate that little band that comes down says [TS]

  hey I know you're looking at our Web site the did you know we have a happy you could try that. [TS]

  The whole idea that like the app. [TS]

  Could provide better features than the web you look on the phone going to web browsing I'm doing stuff I want to do it [TS]

  on the web I got nothing that native apps don't have a place [TS]

  but if I'm never getting around the Web The last thing I want is to be chucked into an application deep linked [TS]

  or otherwise so I do not like the idea of this thing like I'm assuming people commenting on this about like the [TS]

  Internet communication thing that maybe I was told to do something about. [TS]

  I was able do something about or whatever will people talk about that and I can show in the future I'm sure. [TS]

  But that's about native apps talking to each other [TS]

  and cooperating you know multiple native apps coordinating to get a single job done [TS]

  and yeah I guess the web browser is one of those of the native apps but if I'm on a web page like [TS]

  and I don't like unlike those two things being an I don't like switching between those two things I don't care how [TS]

  coordinated they can be about where I jump back [TS]

  and forth I question whether jumping out at all is ever the right thing to do. [TS]

  Well generally speaking I would agree with you that if I'm in the browser it's probably a deliberate action [TS]

  and I have [TS]

  and I want to remain in the browser in the api enters whatever they're called at the top they just get away in a very [TS]

  annoying especially in the case that the app is ready installed. [TS]

  Maybe less so if you're trying to like advertise that you have an app in any case the one time where I think this makes [TS]

  a lot of sense is if for example for some reason I've browsed something in Safari [TS]

  and I end up on some really heavy media app lets take Spotify for example. [TS]

  I'm probably going to want to listen to whatever the song or playlist or what have you is in. [TS]

  Spotify is app rather than in mobile Safari so for things like that it makes sense [TS]

  but other than that I tend to agree with you John. [TS]

  I guess it's not the capability of it's bad so much as just as I see the potential for abuse in that if I was if there [TS]

  was a big badge that was like open it up in insert name of native app here [TS]

  and it was clear that's what it was going to do it sign. [TS]

  But these Web sites these companies are so desperate to get you to install and use their apps. [TS]

  I don't know why they're they just you know you better engagement with our Mike [TS]

  and uncle's voice Brynn's like it's just annoying it's like I rather do you just make your website good [TS]

  and I'll use your app if I want to [TS]

  but like now if we give them the ability to make every single link a potential minefield it's going to take you out [TS]

  into some native app. I'm not enthusiastic about this. Yeah I think definitely. [TS]

  I totally agree that this has nothing to do with X. Called a U.R.L. [TS]

  or An affirmation really that that's a different problem. I think there's a couple problems. [TS]

  I agree with everything John said so far which is that you have you know there are probably some some conditions where [TS]

  this is what you want what you want as a user [TS]

  but there's also probably just as many if not more where it's not what you want as a user [TS]

  and yet you could then prompt the user to ask what they want and that's more clunking as more complexity. [TS]

  It's one of those things where I have a feeling the solve the problem. [TS]

  Facebook thinks they have and they assume everyone else has the same problem but it doesn't really. [TS]

  There's probably not a good problem to be solved in a good way here. [TS]

  Furthermore I don't know how they could possibly get this to work very well because very effectively in the real world [TS]

  because the most common little browsers are mobile Safari [TS]

  and chrome is the one that are actually you know used for web browsing instead of sitting in a drawer [TS]

  or playing videos and I don't see you know Apple. [TS]

  There's almost no chance in hell they would ever implement this in the safari so that's out. [TS]

  Any chance of like you know a plugin architecture a mobile Safari that would enable plugins for this is probably also [TS]

  out. [TS]

  Google is winning this in Croom maybe [TS]

  but Google hates Facebook so I don't know if that's going to happen either you know what's in it for them probably [TS]

  nothing. [TS]

  Does this require browser support I mean reasonable to know where the requires browsers [TS]

  or well in the documentation I read through all the documentation [TS]

  and I didn't like it I don't think was very good I thought their examples were you know. [TS]

  Examples are always contrived but these are crummy they were just crummy examples [TS]

  but the way I understood it is if you tap a link in or if you end up on a page in a web browser including like a U.I. [TS]

  Web view in say tweet bot for example then if you see all these meditates made attacks whether called at the top of the [TS]

  of your document you can say oh I can build a U.R.L. [TS]

  Based on the information in these meditates and make a check you know with the with i O. [TS]

  West and say hey does this U.R.L. Is this a U.R.L. That you know about and if so just quietly. [TS]

  Well I guess not so quietly actually redirect into the apps a salmon Tweeple I land on. [TS]

  I'm using a browser in twee part I land on a Spotify page then tweet but can say Oh I see that there's this Apple Inc [TS]

  or whatever it's called [TS]

  and I see that Spotify is installed on Casey's phone so much punchier to Spotify that Marco did you read into this at [TS]

  all. [TS]

  No I actually spent about five minutes for the show looking at this because I think that is it for them so I could be [TS]

  totally wrong on this. [TS]

  Yeah I think that's the way I interpreted it and hopefully will either get a lot of e-mail saying I'm right [TS]

  or a couple emails of the diagram on the site is the one it's like it works across you know Windows Phone [TS]

  and Android and i OS and like right away. [TS]

  Well Apple has no interest in this and the thing is of Apple has no interest in it [TS]

  and I think as Rene tweeted us with a link to Rene and pressure no it's like doing this right. [TS]

  See there there's a reasonable chance and I'm going to say a good bet [TS]

  but there's a reasonable chance that Apple might have some similar type of thing having to do with maybe like a better [TS]

  version of X. Callback You're really something. Whatever Apple decides to do this it remotely in this area. [TS]

  That's what Apple's going to do that's what they're going to support [TS]

  and that's what everybody on the highways platform is going to support making a cross-platform standard is so hard [TS]

  when one of the vendors Apple is just going to ignore you. [TS]

  Never like [TS]

  and might potentially do its own thing because if Apple does don't think people will do whatever the hell I.O.'s [TS]

  supports because it is still by far the most popular platform for games where people actually give you money [TS]

  or for applications not just games but anyway. [TS]

  Yes I totally expect Apple to ignore this and of Apple ignores it it's a non-starter for the app platform anyway [TS]

  and that means it's never going to be cross cross Plus I know it's not been standard involves a lot of good looking out [TS]

  assignment that like your best bet would be to get the support of Leica W three C. [TS]

  Standard Zabol does support those but something coming from Facebook [TS]

  and trying to solve their cross-platform development difficulties. Apple is just not interested in that at all. [TS]

  That's not to say that any Apple is the one who had that stupid annoying dialog box [TS]

  and I complained about the dialog box says hey download your app [TS]

  but before they did that every individual Web site doing something even worse [TS]

  and the client side javascript to do the same feature. [TS]

  So really I'm mad at everybody who keeps trying to make their app out all Apple adding the feature to standardize it at [TS]

  least standardize the annoyance [TS]

  and makes it like it doesn't slow down the browser as much because it's no longer terrible client side jobs running [TS]

  but it's no longer a model dialog box or some something they like animate [TS]

  but they wouldn't use this accelerated animation so it would be like you know javascript redrawing. [TS]

  It was bad yet so reading more on the teaches article quoting again. [TS]

  Apps that implement appling so be able to scan a link that's been tapped by the user in a matter of seconds understand [TS]

  weather can be opened inside a native app to deep linking fall back to a web view [TS]

  or offer a way to download the app from the App Store so this corroborates what I was thinking earlier that you're in [TS]

  tweet buy you land on some page it looks at the page's H.T.M.L. [TS]

  and Says hey is there something I can do with this or not and then can handle it and dump you into the app in question. [TS]

  I mean I guess that's nice [TS]

  but to both your points without Safari supporting this I don't see how this is going to be that fantastic by the way it [TS]

  does also. [TS]

  There's a page fetch a requires it for eight let's say you've been an open Lincoln tweet [TS]

  but it requires people to first fetch the H.T.M.L. Of the page. Parse it for these. [TS]

  Look for these tags and then possibly offer you the option to redirect into an app for that [TS]

  and that's that's pretty crappy. [TS]

  Yeah the reason I put that quote in there that one they just read was not to give information about because I wanted to [TS]

  shame the copywriter who wrote it was like it's a little bit like Apple inks will be able to scan a link that's been [TS]

  tapped by the user [TS]

  and comma in a matter of seconds comma understand whether it can be over in a matter of seconds I sure as hell hope not. [TS]

  Like I know it's an expression [TS]

  but like the copywriter is like this the wrong order of magnitude for how long it's going to really take this [TS]

  cancelling thing you know is it really does take seconds there is a serious problem [TS]

  when even the wording there scan a link that's not really true it's you know fetch the contents of a link [TS]

  and then look at the contents to see if maybe you can open it I mean that's that's a different proposition. [TS]

  I guess I don't see this being why they don't you know John as you said like if there's no chance that Apple can [TS]

  implement this which I'm pretty sure that's the case then how much of a standard you know Facebook has a lot of this [TS]

  like platform itis going on and they always have this is nothing new. [TS]

  Where Facebook always comes out you know that Facebook and Apple both have their And Google for an Amazon of everyone. [TS]

  They all have their own their own breed of arrogance and Apple's arrogance is well known and well documented. [TS]

  Apple's arrogance is rushing to make their own thing in that you can make the standard if you want to. [TS]

  Facebook's arrogance is we're going to launch these platform the standards are going to be useful [TS]

  and implemented by everybody even when that's almost never actually the outcome to what they make [TS]

  and almost always just serve them at best [TS]

  and even they often abandon the things they make so you know it's I think this is this is a nice sounding story [TS]

  but I don't see it being implemented by almost anybody important and certainly not widely enough to matter. [TS]

  You know Facebook is not a trusted actor in this relationship right here because it's you know yes they're trying to [TS]

  make an open stay. [TS]

  But it's so clear that it's it is designed to solve a problem that Facebook has which is how do we deploy our [TS]

  application on all the different platforms Apple does not have that particular problem [TS]

  or at the very least has it in a very small version if they still make ideas for Windows beyond that they do not want [TS]

  to deploy their software on every mobile platform. [TS]

  So this isn't a problem they have and it's like why would we but we get on board with this thing that yes it's open [TS]

  and trying to be standardized but it clearly exists to serve Facebook [TS]

  and will probably evolve to continue to serve Facebook. If we're not sure that I you know that's of the three C. [TS]

  The only thing [TS]

  and even that is just like these big companies are all you know on the whatever in these in these working groups for to [TS]

  really see at each other's throats trying to fight for the little details of you know what image elements going to be [TS]

  used for multi resolution images on the web and whether we should support canvas and all of those stuff [TS]

  and so that is a form in which they feel like it's a moral level playing field where all the big companies are are at [TS]

  each other's throats trying to deal with web standards and whatever gets through more or less Apple implements [TS]

  but Apple also does the thing where it proposes a standard then implemented and shipped it to millions [TS]

  and millions of people and says well we already can implement to this [TS]

  and everybody does that help you go I think maybe you should adopt it as a standard like it's not. [TS]

  Yeah that's how standards work in the real world. [TS]

  The sort of you know combine that around the campfire I think we're all going to get along type of thing I call [TS]

  Facebook really to an open standard everyone should use it now. That's never what it's like. [TS]

  So what is what is benefiting from Facebook by having a standard way with which to deep link into an app because that's [TS]

  the essential premise behind this is not only that you can launch an app which everyone knows how to do reasonably [TS]

  easily. [TS]

  But here's a standard by which we define what data you're passing to that app [TS]

  or that needs to be passed that appen order to get to the exact content you want. So what's the play for Facebook here. [TS]

  Well it's pretty obvious it's for Facebook app it's so that. [TS]

  You know if you look say you know Facebook obviously encourages sharing all their crap as much as possible. [TS]

  Let's say you share in Lincoln something that goes to a Facebook property they want to be able to launch one of their [TS]

  apps directly into that so that they control the whole experience on your show on their web page [TS]

  or it goes right to their app and they get more information [TS]

  or that it's faster for the user so they don't have to go to the web first. [TS]

  They clearly want this for themselves I mean that's what they did. [TS]

  Then Facebook just have I've seen tweets about it and they have like their little developer P.R. [TS]

  Thing or some kind of that's called fifty eight hour God I didn't think of it that way. [TS]

  Anyway like I did not watch the speech thing [TS]

  but from what I've seen from Facebook in past months I'm going to pretend that I did [TS]

  and pretend this is what they said [TS]

  and I imagine that this is all part of the strategy that they have to stop being a single thing called Facebook which [TS]

  is a Web site the you go to or more abstractly an application that you use through the web browser and other things [TS]

  and start being a series of more special purpose applications circling around this giant hub of information they have [TS]

  about everybody and so I I think like things like paper paper didn't replace the Facebook app. [TS]

  It just kind of augment that I think what they want to make is a fleet of mobile applications for fleet of neighbors in [TS]

  need of mobile applications that all cooperate in interoperate with each other and with them [TS]

  and with the Facebook website to make one single unified Facebook experience [TS]

  and that's why they want to deep link from paper into the official Facebook app from the Facebook website into whatever [TS]

  other app they come out with like the idea that they're transitioning into all their anywhere a platform [TS]

  and they want to be a different kind of platform where all these different pieces [TS]

  and all these different platforms can all talk to each other and you know sort of cooperate [TS]

  or in some ways it is kind of like indirect communication but they're all their data is on the web and in the cloud [TS]

  and so they have to do their version of indirect communication is a way to basically deep link from one application to [TS]

  another into the way. [TS]

  It Out of the web so it makes sense for from what they wanted to why do they think they want to do it as an open [TS]

  standard. [TS]

  That's tends to be the way they do things [TS]

  and I think they would be happy if it became commonly supported because then they would have some assurance that the [TS]

  OAS or the Web browsers or whatever wouldn't change in a way that prevents their standard from working you know. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  and I guess I don't know it just at first I was like oh percent actually no this doesn't sound that after all it sounds [TS]

  like a cool idea until you think about it a little bit or try to implement it [TS]

  and start thinking about the realities of it and [TS]

  and how Apple will never support a noble safari in everything I just it kind of falls apart under scrutiny I think [TS]

  that's a very good way of phrasing it. [TS]

  What else is cool these days are friends a back blaze we're also sponsored this week once again by back please. [TS]

  I still pronounce into my head as backup was a I think it sounds fan. [TS]

  Anyway they're awesome so Backley is online backup for five bucks a month. [TS]

  It's a mac native app and I have five bucks a month gets you unlimited [TS]

  and throttled uncomplicated backup you know we've talked a lot about the value of online backup here before [TS]

  and in one of John's your response [TS]

  or reads If you don't use this you're nuts I mean on the back it was amazing there's that there's an entire class of [TS]

  problems hazards events where if you have a local clone a Time Machine backup like sitting in your office next to your [TS]

  computer plugged in things like power surges lightning strikes floods fires that there's all sorts of of bad things [TS]

  that can happen that would affect both the main computer and a backup if all you have is the one in your house and [TS]

  and so all my backup takes care of that [TS]

  and a whole bunch of other problems it's a fantastic solution I've been using it myself [TS]

  and I've been using back plays for a couple years at least now very happy with it. [TS]

  So they also have easily you can easily restore all of your file of course you can also easily restore just one file [TS]

  right through the web interface. You also have an I.L.S. App that you can use to. [TS]

  Access any of your backed up files and even share them if you want to. [TS]

  There's also they just added email alerts so that you can say for instance like every every week [TS]

  or two weeks that you know you saying all right this is the status here back here that we have we have this computer we [TS]

  have this many gigs this is the last time I checked in it cetera so you can you can always you know be confident what [TS]

  it's doing and you can of course also try to restore anything on the web whenever you want to to confirm that. [TS]

  Also founded by X. Apple engineers it is a native application. [TS]

  It's you know it's not some weird cross platform runtime thing it's a native application. [TS]

  It's a new year a System Preferences those little menu bar thing it's pretty nice natively on back and I'm Mavericks [TS]

  and it's also a P.C. Application as well. So there's a fifteen day trial with no credit card required. [TS]

  You could enter an e-mail password and that's it. [TS]

  And once again once you go to pay for it it's just five dollars per month per computer [TS]

  and there's no gimmicks no add ons notational charges five bucks a month for unlimited [TS]

  and throttled back up even get cheaper actually if you pay for a whole year. [TS]

  So by far the simplest online backup to use just install and it does the rest go to back Blaze dot com slash A.T.P. [TS]

  To get going. Once again is back please dot com slash A.T.P. and I used to recommend it. [TS]

  Thank you very much to that place from Georgia. So God help me but I'm about to bring up comics. Skip skip skip. [TS]

  I actually don't really have that much to say about the comics ology Amazon thing [TS]

  but I thought I should at least ask you too if you had anything to say to me it seems like everyone is acting selfishly [TS]

  as expected and there's nothing here to real nothing here. No but what do you guys think. [TS]

  I think Merlin covered a very well on back to work this week so it will be useless in that he did a really good job of [TS]

  covering the the nuance of this problem I mean my I had a quick blog post about it [TS]

  and I'm not going to rehash it here basically my opinion is that Amazon as the new owners are coming solid going to [TS]

  doing what they always do the kind of. When the always do. [TS]

  It's not really a surprise to anybody [TS]

  and it shouldn't be a surprise anybody the Dems on that in a way they always do and it kind of sucks [TS]

  but they have their reasons and that's it. [TS]

  Whenever we talk about tech topics where there is something that upsets you know basically you know people who aren't [TS]

  into following the tech industry and they get angry about it on Twitter [TS]

  and there are blog posts of like that of this a couple different reactions that I see [TS]

  and that are you know sort of reaction types. [TS]

  One is easy one where people like people are part of his her particular company if they're like one company I don't [TS]

  like another company whatever happens they're going to find out why this proves that Google is evil why this proves [TS]

  that Apple is evil like whatever like that they have their favorite company they have become if they don't like [TS]

  whatever happens those people come out of the work [TS]

  and do that so you have people who are really the Amazon fans defending Amazon [TS]

  and people who hate Apple's thing it's Apple's fault because you know that a straight up the other way as people are [TS]

  trying to figure out what's really going on and saying well it's really nobody's fault [TS]

  and it is kind of sort of trying to do the middle of the road type thing where they don't want to assign blame [TS]

  but they're sad about it [TS]

  and just like well just the way it is because everyone just has to be selfish kind of like a said before [TS]

  and my reaction to it is always a little bit I don't know if it's it's less common [TS]

  or people have my reaction just not read about it as much. [TS]

  I kind of like a parenting angle where whatever company I like the best like in this case will be Apple right. [TS]

  I know something bad will happen and I will decide that I'm very disappointed in the company that I like [TS]

  and thumbs down instead of the company [TS]

  and then taking out that is something I don't like it like oh well you know you are the company I don't like [TS]

  and this is your fault instead I will say what is it that my company did to cause this to happen you know like [TS]

  disappointed in my child like that I hold that I hold my children to a higher standard right is I don't care what other [TS]

  kids are doing. Why were you involved in so I mean maybe that's not. [TS]

  Real origin of the thing was just you know like the way I was thinking as I got my first reaction is always to blame [TS]

  Apple is it because I dislike Apple. [TS]

  No it's because I expect more of them you know I mean like that I have a high standard I'm disappointed in them. [TS]

  Yeah and we should point out by the way what we're talking about in case anyone was living under a rock this week [TS]

  and didn't realize what happened. [TS]

  Comics ology the popular comic buying app for i OS especially i Pad It was bought by Amazon [TS]

  and then like within a month they was on did basically just with the Kindle app does which is they removed the ability [TS]

  for comics ology to purchase for a new comic issues [TS]

  and that even our term comic issues I'm sorry my comics person so anyway I'm not sorry. [TS]

  Anyway we removed it at purchase [TS]

  and so now you have to like go out to the Amazon Web site separately by early cause all you have sight by is on by the [TS]

  comics there and then go into the app and download them exactly where the Kindle app works [TS]

  and that's almost entirely just to avoid paying Apple to thirty percent on the net on purchases [TS]

  and Apple has a couple of rules that you know that you have to you know given the thirty percent on an emperor [TS]

  and also that if you have a way on your site to for people to pay you without going through Apple for something that is [TS]

  digital you can't advertise that in the app [TS]

  and you can't link to it from the apps so you can't for instance like you can just have an app like a link in the app [TS]

  that kicks you at a safari first second you enter your credit card stuff on on your site. [TS]

  Avoid Apple's charge [TS]

  and then kicks you back in the app that's that's no longer that was that was only allowed for two weeks [TS]

  and they killed that so. [TS]

  So the issue is obviously you know comics ology under Amazon [TS]

  and as I did not want to keep paying Apple thirty percent [TS]

  and many people are blaming Apple for this including John I guess many people are are blaming Apple saying well they [TS]

  shouldn't be taking thirty percent or they shouldn't have that rule that you can't lie to your store [TS]

  and that's certainly. You know something worth discussing and a lot of people are mad. [TS]

  How much algae because they're ruining the experience here making it much more clunky to buy things [TS]

  and probably losing a lot of impulse buys because what would happen I guess from what I've heard is that you get to the [TS]

  end of a comic and it would ask you to buy the next issue and you could buy right there in start reading it [TS]

  and you can't do that as easily anymore so that's probably going to impact sales [TS]

  and only explain why blame out of this [TS]

  and have planned out before it ever since to do the same thing with the Kindle app. [TS]

  Way back when [TS]

  and it's not about the takeovers it's about the big picture in the big picture is the technology exists to provide an [TS]

  experience that customers like and not only just the customers like [TS]

  but that actually is beneficial to the people selling the goods as well. [TS]

  Like you said the ability to just write in the app impulse purchase comics every comic I've ever purchased in my life [TS]

  with the exception of I think one flimsy paperback and I'm a comic. [TS]

  Back when I was fifteen years old has been through the comic ology [TS]

  and why because it is so ridiculously easy I'm not even in the cult I don't even like comics [TS]

  but I've got the columns are the app and if you read one issue [TS]

  and ever put the buttons that you want to be the next one [TS]

  and put little present in whatever you tap the button like that the whole killer that is the killer app of the App [TS]

  Store the fact that you can with your thumb go and the game goes you know it goes awry [TS]

  and I mean it's that they don't think that the barrier to entry so low so technology exists for sure to do that [TS]

  and the experience is really awesome for customers. [TS]

  They love it [TS]

  and it's usually pretty good for the people selling the stuff too because they sell more stuff because the barrier to [TS]

  buying it is less. [TS]

  Anything that prevents that from happening anything that says yeah we could do this and yeah it would be good [TS]

  and all the sorts of ways [TS]

  but I don't care what the bodice is about like well they have to get thirty percent of its there then [TS]

  when I have a flat I don't I don't want to hear about the reasons. [TS]

  All I know is this is technologically possible it is not financially infeasible but it doesn't happen [TS]

  and so you say Well Apple's us through Amazon is choosing not to follow them it's Amazon's fault for doing that. [TS]

  This is not just one occurrence I mean I guess Kendall is also Amazon as well but like a lot of the. [TS]

  Don't have thirty percent to shave off to give the apple and he said well they used to pay way more than that brick [TS]

  and mortar retail store if that's true as well. [TS]

  We're supposed to be getting better over time in that like the the value you're getting out of being in the in the App [TS]

  Store is that we're thirty percent of the relationship you have with a retail establishment even though they took more [TS]

  off was much more complicated in terms of the English you know for books in the case of books being able to ship things [TS]

  back and dealing with them in Torreon having remainders market [TS]

  and like I would think that we would be having more efficiencies in this [TS]

  and I'm not saying they should charge less than the thirty percent not saying they shouldn't charge their percent on [TS]

  saying that it is in Apple's interest as the platform owner to figure out what they have to do to make it so there's a [TS]

  good experience that is that is definitely a win win out over the win win win to use the you know the business beacon [TS]

  of if everyone's going to be at least two of the three parties here are going to be happy with this they need to figure [TS]

  out a way to make it happen and the second thing that annoys me about is the strategy tax thing [TS]

  and that oh by the way did you know that Apple has a bookstore [TS]

  and they pay themselves they were sent Don't worry it's you know that that seems like is that the reason they're not [TS]

  doing because they want to promote my book so I don't think I haven't seen sells comics are probably on this case been [TS]

  the Kindle Store really burns me that you know candle can you know it kinda want to sell their books inside out which [TS]

  everyone who uses the Kindle app would love. [TS]

  They've got to give Apple thirty percent [TS]

  and really there is just I don't think this thirty percent hanging around to shave off of these things right [TS]

  and so they I think it is crank up their prices by thirty percent [TS]

  but then they have to match a store on the web store like all these rules that Apple set up are made to introduce [TS]

  inefficiencies in the system to sort of force people to really use their system [TS]

  and therefore not be able to offer people a discount for going to the Web site or don't use it [TS]

  and people are choosing not to use it and you can say well they're playing hardball now. [TS]

  Amazon's fault but at this point I think it's clear that Apple strategy of just holding the line at thirty percent [TS]

  and saying nope are never going to you know that's going to be this way for everybody and that's it. [TS]

  It's not working it's not making people it's having the opposite effect people aren't saying well what choice do we [TS]

  have I guess we just got to do it because we want to get. Our customers a good experience and we get more sales. [TS]

  The opposite is happening. [TS]

  They're just opting out and if they think they're calling Apple's bluff [TS]

  or whatever I think Apple called Apple needs to do something about it because we want to have you know I mean there are [TS]

  so many other things that are as good an android. [TS]

  But and really give you the option of not paying Google whatever percent if you use your own payment processor. [TS]

  Right yeah. So on Android you can if you use Google they they charge of their thirty percent just like the others. [TS]

  But there's no rule against using your own so you can build in your own mini a big upset [TS]

  and I want to point out also Amazon [TS]

  when they sell something they also tend to usually charge at least thirty percent on digital good session like for [TS]

  smaller publishers for self published people they actually often charge more than thirty percent [TS]

  and so this isn't like you know Amazon wants to give more to the authors. [TS]

  It's more like Amazon just wants that thirty percent for themselves. [TS]

  Well the others will get more but like [TS]

  nor in very knowing how Amazon splits up its money because that is a whole separate issue of yes you can definitely [TS]

  complain about Amazon they're not great about it you know like they want all the money for everything they want to sell [TS]

  your stuff below cost [TS]

  and give you nothing for they want to give your thing away free like Amazon does that's just talking about the [TS]

  relationship between Apple [TS]

  and everyone else because that's where the dysfunction is like we get if we could address this [TS]

  and we could buy things inside the thing then the secondary disfunction be like OK well how much of this purchase price [TS]

  after Apple gets its cut goes to the creator [TS]

  or whatever so I think that's a little bit of a side show in a lot of people like Well this is better because some of [TS]

  that thirty percent will go to the content creators and that's probably true [TS]

  but that's not why I like Don't hang your hat on that is the reason we should be able to buy things I and I.I. [TS]

  SAP It is an artificial situation brought on by a platform owner [TS]

  and someone who wants to be in a platform butting heads and [TS]

  and we are the loser the customers are the loser in this situation [TS]

  and in the beginning it was like let's see how this shakes out [TS]

  but now after all these years I think Apple needs to do something different. [TS]

  I don't know what that different thing is everything you buy Amazon you know brain is a different thing you. [TS]

  You lower your percentage you come up with a different kind of deal like because consumers are suffering for it [TS]

  and that I think is the primary response addles like oh we just care about making great products. [TS]

  It is not a great product when I can't buy cando book Inside the Kindle app is just not well. [TS]

  So yeah I disagree on this point on that the idea that Apple has to do something that Apple is somehow you know losing [TS]

  here or they have to mean there's there's one side of this that's untitled [TS]

  and argument I don't think is entirely fair one side of this is you know well we should we will do whatever we want on [TS]

  this computing platform because we're able to do whatever we want on Macs and P.C.'s [TS]

  but the reality is like you know I.I.S. [TS]

  Is get it's mostly like a computer platform and [TS]

  but you know there's no third party software that doesn't go to the App Store unless you jailbreak So that's literally [TS]

  can. [TS]

  But this isn't a technical issue this isn't a safety issue this isn't a technical issue this is an ease of use it is [TS]

  like it's a capability thing that we know is possible it's a bit it's an artificial business constraint. Well sure. [TS]

  But OK so this is this is only a contentious issue because Iowa is the dominant tablet platform for people who buy [TS]

  things and read them on tablets that they also use for anything else in the world. [TS]

  So what if the dominant portable computing platform was you know what if it ended up differently. [TS]

  What if the dominant tablet or the dominant portable computer platform was the Sony P.S.P. [TS]

  or What if it was the Kindle you know then you look at the Kindles. [TS]

  No one ever had apps on that I mean they had a quick little Katie Katie thing that died thank God it was to have data [TS]

  best. You know you could make after the Inconel Apple could not make i Books for the candle. [TS]

  Apple probably also could make i Books for the P.S.P. [TS]

  As a game console game console work very differently similar to how the app store works. [TS]

  Although probably on worse terms of imagine [TS]

  and so you know there's you look at other types of computer vices that aren't just P.C.'s and Macs. [TS]

  Other Other times you can hear devices that are you know owned by one company that are kind of vertically integrated [TS]

  etc They don't they work usually the same way that Apple does with the same kind of rules [TS]

  or more restrictive where they take bigger cuts. [TS]

  So [TS]

  and including one of Amazon's own platforms it is very very popular because the Inconel platform so I don't really think [TS]

  that it's that Apple has to do anything here or that the necessarily unjustified or there [TS]

  or that they're being excessively greedy. I really don't. [TS]

  So your argument is that because other people do bad things Apple is also entitled to do bad things. [TS]

  No my argument is that you as as Company X. or As individual X. [TS]

  You are not entitled to access Apple's customer base on your own terms that you dictate. [TS]

  But it's not it's not there it's not the Amazon that has the entitlement I'm having the entitlement of the customer. [TS]

  I'm supposed to be the one that Apple is serving like they're they're reducing the value of their products to me [TS]

  through this fight that they're having with Amazon over this like the Amazon is certainly certainly not entitled to [TS]

  access Apple's cuz that's the whole but the whole fight is over like those two companies are fighting [TS]

  but we are the losers we are caught in the middle [TS]

  and a certain point us being the losers affects Apple more than it affects Amazon than as I can go anywhere [TS]

  and selling to whoever them of the UN cares much less about who the winner is in that whatever space than Apple does [TS]

  because Amazon will promise us we'll try to get you to buy. [TS]

  Yes they have their own platform too [TS]

  but that's not like they're shunning I.O.'s Android they will still sell where they want to sell it's us losing [TS]

  and I was willing to give it a couple years like to see how it would shake out. [TS]

  But if for example Apple had become ridiculously dominant like they were had ninety percent market share [TS]

  and everything. [TS]

  Maybe Amazon What a loss this one maybe they would have gone back to selling in the app [TS]

  but it didn't work out that way and so I now I think it's time it's time to readjust. [TS]

  I see I just don't see that pressure being that strong an apple here. [TS]

  I think Apple is not fulfilling its responsibility as a platform owner to me. [TS]

  It's products the best they can be for its customers in the long term not just the short term. [TS]

  Well I guess that I was willing to give them a year or two to play hardball and see how it went. [TS]

  But it is going badly for them and I blame Apple because they're my child I will disagree that it's going badly [TS]

  but also one more thing I think Apple could probably look at this from another angle [TS]

  and say you know you can't if you're proposing a change to abstract policy you can't just look at it as what with what [TS]

  would like good implementations do with that what would good people do with that you know how would that be used well [TS]

  if they also look at it as how would that be used terribly How would that be used by scanning people by crappy [TS]

  companies like King like how how would that be used by terrible people and terrible companies [TS]

  and if allowing other purchased systems that Apple does not run would also introduce a huge risk of an erosion of trust [TS]

  in the payment system by bad actors like you know big game companies with purchased scheme stuff like that like bad [TS]

  actors having their own credit card and put things in their apps that then behave badly. [TS]

  But who is suggesting that though no one is suggesting that. Well so also that's you know one of the options. [TS]

  There's a couple options to solve this. [TS]

  One of the options is to reduce Apple's cut let's say they've cut in half to fifteen percent do you think that would [TS]

  change anyone's mind. [TS]

  I'm guessing not let's say all the rules are the same [TS]

  but the cut goes down the most feasible option for feeling like what's a practical solution [TS]

  when you actually want them to do two things one on it I think aside they should make it possible for someone with it [TS]

  where the catalog volume the size of conduct ology let alone Amazon itself if there's any limit. [TS]

  Amazon is going to hit it with like you know an Amazon dot com for example you know like that sells everything that [TS]

  Milan sells because their catalogs mess. [TS]

  But anyway make sure that's all set make sure you have a system in place [TS]

  and then what I would change about it is it's ridiculous that they have this hard line thing where it's got to be [TS]

  seventy thirty with everyone cut a deal with them with. [TS]

  I think it's not insane like oh it's unfair why did they get a special deal because they're Amazon dot com You're not [TS]

  Amazon dot com You get a different deal I don't think that's unreasonable [TS]

  and Apple seems so tied like it's seventy thirty and never changes every street equally is not nice [TS]

  and fair for everybody. [TS]

  It stops being a ten of a strategy [TS]

  when your consumers are made to have worse experiences because of I don't know what crazy principle that you want like [TS]

  you know each individual apple developer to feel fair I don't think it's unreasonable to cut a deal with them about [TS]

  figure out what you have to do. [TS]

  The terms that you don't even need to be public I don't care what Amazon and Apple have to do to [TS]

  or with each other behind closed doors deal to happen. Just do what you have to do. If someone complains. [TS]

  Hey Amazon getting a special deal when you get to be the size of Amazon [TS]

  and then you'll get a special deal too like is that crazy in my my breaking secret rules of the App Store by suggesting [TS]

  this insane idea. Well it would be breaking with a lot of precedent. [TS]

  Historically Apple has generally very consistently enforce the same rules for everybody big and small [TS]

  and much of the big companies chagrin and a lot of cases [TS]

  but they generally do not negotiate major exceptions to rules like that even with companies big in Amazon or Facebook [TS]

  or the New York Times very point that they really have not done that and I agree they have [TS]

  and I think it's only that they haven't. [TS]

  See I don't know I mean there is you know a lot of the App Store [TS]

  and a lot of its problems honestly are because of this this kind of like almost sort of mostly democratic system that [TS]

  it has often been [TS]

  or it is in a lot of respects like the top list is you know famously minimally filtered you see like crabby scam out of [TS]

  there all the time because they're not really monitoring it that closely [TS]

  and you know it's worth arguing whether that's a good thing or a bad thing. [TS]

  But but most for the most part the app store is run on a pretty level playing field. [TS]

  Where big companies are not allowed to break rules that small companies can't also break [TS]

  but not breaking a rule if you if you have a deal like the anger in the chatter about this is a dress a couple of [TS]

  things then to me says they really think that of Amazon is given a better deal they will automatically pass the money [TS]

  to the counting prints Not course not I didn't say that down that anyone said that. [TS]

  Again we're not talking about Hamelin demise of the money there's a whole separate issue that's totally not what I'm [TS]

  talking about I don't know what Amazon would do with a probably not because that's not how they work [TS]

  and then people feel like comparing it to like bribes and corruption. [TS]

  This is it's a business relationship when you win when Apple is buying parts from someone who makes like screens [TS]

  or widgets or whatever. They negotiate a deal to buy those screens. [TS]

  They get a better price than you do if you want to buy ten of them. [TS]

  That's business of bribes [TS]

  and corruption is just how business works you get volume discounts if you're going to drive a certain amount of [TS]

  business you get a better deal. [TS]

  I don't think that's corruption or bribe that's that's just that's just how business works. [TS]

  It's a contract [TS]

  and no one else is entitled to see how much sense I'm paying you for screen that would not entitle to see that. [TS]

  Like that's individual contracts with businesses. [TS]

  Someone's bring up anti trust Apple doesn't have the market share in any market to be even remotely considered trendy [TS]

  trust except of the crazy people who are going to say that Apple has a monopoly on Apple computers I love that one that [TS]

  never gets old if you know it I understand why you want to have uniform rules [TS]

  and that's a good idea right up to the point where it seems like there's some sort of problem here there is definitely [TS]

  a problem. [TS]

  And like maybe they could never come to the like of a can come to a deal they can come to a deal [TS]

  but as far as any of us are aware they've never even considered this is an option I mean another example is they hell [TS]

  they held the line on I imagine a lot of the rumors about like Microsoft in office and why isn't Office available. [TS]

  Michael doesn't want to give Apple thirty percent of its software sales right. [TS]

  And so that went on for a long time till vengefully Microsoft blinked and produce office [TS]

  but they found a way to do it without giving up a cut because you have to sign up for office three sixty five. [TS]

  No father Wait is that true. [TS]

  I thought they were giving up on the car if you bought in the app for the for the subscription you mean I thought it [TS]

  was a little of both I thought that the way that Microsoft hopes you go is you already have an office three sixty five [TS]

  subscription you got on your own accord. [TS]

  But I believe Marco you're also right that there is an inapt purchase of some capacity that Apple does get a cut of the [TS]

  like the thing I was talking about early on was Microsoft Office will be available for the i Pad will be ninety nine [TS]

  dollars Apple will get thirty percent of that and that's not Microsoft it's not what happened. [TS]

  You know like they have the subscription model [TS]

  and they're free right to free download it so that that is you know it's a different mind elation strategy as opposed [TS]

  to simply selling office at a premium price and giving ample time to send it right off there [TS]

  and like in that case there would be no way to get office without paying Apple thirty percent [TS]

  and now there is a way download a free app go to Microsoft's website where they offer you the same price as you know [TS]

  purchase and even that took a long time to figure out. [TS]

  I think customers didn't really lose out on that one and I think Apple kind of won that battle [TS]

  but the battle over an application through which you naturally want to buy things and consume them right in them. [TS]

  Apple's not winning that battle for whatever reasons and I think something should be done about it [TS]

  and I mean thus far because Google is so incompetent and Varia [TS]

  and has not been able to penetrate the market people are like will screw up on was going to get an android because [TS]

  you're not like I think I've had to go back. You know again I think it's apples still. [TS]

  Maybe that's what they think they're like we're still in the driver's seat eventually will win this [TS]

  but there's a lot of years of suffering have gone on already with the Kindle app [TS]

  and it's just going to the comics ology is is a drop in the bucket [TS]

  and we just see a lot of it because you know we know people who read comics and are angry about it [TS]

  but I think it is a way of a type that will continue coming up until someone figure something out. [TS]

  So what about this as a proposed alternative. [TS]

  So the Times in which we all get bitter about the thirty percent seem to be as so far as I can tell. He's selling. [TS]

  So Amazon or comics ology is reselling the the comics in their app. [TS]

  What if Apple announced that hey if you come to us [TS]

  and can prove to us that you're a reseller then we'll drop the fee to fifteen percent or something like that. [TS]

  And so for things like games where you're not really reselling anything and then you still pay the thirty percent [TS]

  and you can't just make a shell company [TS]

  and say yes I promise that the shell company isn't me you have to actually go to someone in Apple [TS]

  and prove to them by whatever means they want that you are simply reselling [TS]

  and you are not providing your own original content [TS]

  and thus it's not it's not reasonable to give Apple thirty percent you will give them the lower tier cost [TS]

  but you don't need to think that hard about this you can do think if you're so stuck on doing uniform rules [TS]

  or you just like volume discounts if you sell X. Amount of dollars we get X. [TS]

  Percent and if you know ten billion dollars I mean like there are plenty like it which Microsoft does that. [TS]

  These are not like new technologies in the world of business like this our business is work forever is just of the apps [TS]

  the App Store is the aberration. [TS]

  Can we apply this uniformly to everybody [TS]

  and not have any variability for volume so that if you sell three in purchases for virtual coins versus thirty billion [TS]

  in purchases you get exactly the same percentage and I think in being endeavour and you know the like [TS]

  and it's only a problem until like it's making your platform worse to deploy applications on the Kindle app is worse on [TS]

  i OS in this respect than it is on other platforms that allow purchase [TS]

  and comics ology just got worse because the previous company that owned it was going to bite the bullet [TS]

  and give the thirty percent surely shaving its margins [TS]

  and potentially also showing how much money go to kind of creators [TS]

  but who cares they were willing to do this because that was how they got traction they got enough traction the guy [TS]

  bought of Amazon from a Sun doesn't need traction Amazon is Amazon dot com So yeah they take with everything because [TS]

  when I was on does it's not like I'm saying Amazon is the scorpion here it's like well it's in its nature it's going to [TS]

  do that like I think I was on those play evil things too. [TS]

  On thinking about it why is the platform that I use on my tablet. [TS]

  Getting worse for me to do things I like to do on it and I just want it to be worked out. [TS]

  Marco before you jump in I just like to point out I understand the scorpion reference I said I'm going to have a [TS]

  critical and you listened you know John you're you're assuming that Apple needs to address this [TS]

  and you're in your position you're arguing that it is an assumption you're you're arguing that Apple needs to fix this [TS]

  and I just don't see the urgent need and I think the Kindle app being this way for so long I mean it's been what four [TS]

  or five years to probably three or four years of the going to have been this way. [TS]

  That's been there long enough and it doesn't seem to really be affecting Apple sales or customer satisfaction. [TS]

  You know overall it doesn't seem to be that that you know Apple's really like being held to the fire here that they [TS]

  really have to change this. [TS]

  I don't I don't see the big push I don't see why they would have to do any of these things why they [TS]

  and by the way I think lowering their cut too. [TS]

  Anything would not please Amazon I think Amazon wants to own the whole experience [TS]

  and the whole processing of anything that is potentially right. [TS]

  But then but at that point I could stop blaming Apple and say Well Apple offered them my point or one percent [TS]

  and it's all rejected it's like all that viable holding. [TS]

  Yeah I mean honestly I really do think [TS]

  and if I want to own the entire customer process not just that commission they want they want everything to be going [TS]

  through them only and so they have full control and full access [TS]

  and I really don't think that a rate cut would do it for them. [TS]

  Well the idea that like they don't need to do it because like well they've been doing it for years and Kindle [TS]

  and it hasn't hurt them right. [TS]

  It's difficult to tell or hasn't heard them [TS]

  but like the one thing I would point to that like a metric to say well maybe they would have sold more i Pads of you [TS]

  could have bought they like a hard to prove like rarer [TS]

  but the one thing you can point to is gold Tim Cook's favorite customer sat kind of them [TS]

  or sat around people who read comics has suddenly gone down I can tell you that and I think customer [TS]

  and then can go up [TS]

  and didn't have a deal like customer sat on people who use the Kindle app would go you know WAY higher for their i Pad [TS]

  that they could buy things trip you think about that like some people. [TS]

  They consider their i Pad like it's my comic reading device [TS]

  and like that's what they use for I bet there are people out there who can settle their Kindle reader [TS]

  and if suddenly those people could buy the things like they got to the end of series one of the book series [TS]

  and it was a little page at the end of the Kindle day [TS]

  and said Do you want to start writing the next one tap the button you tap the button a little spinner pay for two [TS]

  seconds and you're reading the next book. [TS]

  Their customer sat with their i Pad would go up like that is a metric that you can track that they talk about a lot [TS]

  that they should be watching. [TS]

  Is it causing people to not buy pads I don't like maybe Customer satisfaction is disconnected from their bottom line in [TS]

  big ways [TS]

  but they do care about it because that's their whole thing is like we're trying to make great products that make people [TS]

  happy. [TS]

  And here's a case where they're intentionally choosing not to do something that they know make people happy because of [TS]

  a fight they're having with a competitor about pricing and I so I guess that it's OK to do that for a while [TS]

  but the way it shaking out doesn't seem like Amazon is going to budge [TS]

  and you know customer satisfaction with these experiences they're still not going up to the level they know it could be [TS]

  or going down in the cases where applications of the backslide. [TS]

  So assuming that there's no rate change that could get Amazon to actually accept that [TS]

  and do everything directly through apple assuming that the only thing that would allow them to offer an app purchases [TS]

  on Apple's platforms in a way that Amazon would approve would be to do a Google allows which is to just have their own [TS]

  payment processing in the app that you know an apple would just remove the rule that you can't do that. [TS]

  Do you think the net gain from that in overall Apple ecosystem customer satisfaction assuming that anybody else could [TS]

  do that same thing assuming that you had said earlier like assuming that you know King could put their own payment [TS]

  system in candy crush to make thirty percent more and that any random After put their own credit card system in [TS]

  but you keep you keep going back to your own payment system No the suggestion that I would never suggest that people be [TS]

  able to do their own payment systems. [TS]

  So you're basically putting forth the idea that Apple should negotiate a lower rate with Amazon [TS]

  and then Amazon would probably accept a lower rate. [TS]

  It's not just Amazon like Sam is on a hard place hardball like we will give you a red cent. You'll never get any of it. [TS]

  Thing I think if you don't you know if for example Amazon's policy was if you don't let us implement our own payment [TS]

  then screw you [TS]

  and then I would say that Apple interest not to say well you implementing your own payment system would make it worse [TS]

  for our customers so it's not actually we're not going to be a customer so I news ever get it [TS]

  but then that would mean like Marvel unlimited knowledge other like comics knowledge you had white label versions are [TS]

  absolute people going to work out now that I was on to them [TS]

  but there's a potential for other people in the market to say well we'll do a deal for the people who own these comics [TS]

  and we will sell comics electronically and we will let you buy them from within our app [TS]

  and you would see the people who are into comics they will screw comics all the I'm not using them anymore you can even [TS]

  buy into the app I'm going to this other thing I'm going to description plan like those ones where you pay a monthly [TS]

  fee and you can read X. Number of comics like a competition. [TS]

  Hopefully in the realm of comics maybe not in the realm of books [TS]

  or anything else would make it so that other people would spring up [TS]

  and say well you're not willing to pay Apple two percent but I think two percent of the reasonable transaction fee [TS]

  and we're going to pay it and now everyone going to come to our unknowns going to buy three [TS]

  or think of it I want to go to a Web site to buy stuff I'm looking at you know just what effect these kind of decisions [TS]

  would have on the entire ecosystem and on all developers who and all users of it [TS]

  and I don't I don't see a scenario here where Apple could make a change that would be that would dramatically improve [TS]

  the situation with Amazon stuff and would would be a net benefit [TS]

  and you know wouldn't have too high a cost in users as I think you know even ignoring the money Apple would lose on [TS]

  that reduced or last commission. [TS]

  I don't see this is being a net when I see you know bad people taking advantage of it [TS]

  and an erosion of trust in buying i OS apps and paying for things i O. S. [TS]

  Which should reduce customer satisfaction but that people do it with a reduced rate based on volume [TS]

  or otherwise you get a reduced rate that's that's something that I think would probably only negatively affect Apple [TS]

  but I also don't like I don't see Amazon taking that deal and you're right maybe someone else will [TS]

  and maybe you know maybe that'll be the situation but see I just I don't I don't see the big. [TS]

  Need for this I mean you know people or people are mad. [TS]

  This week they'll be over next week [TS]

  and even now most of the anger is going to comics all Juda Amazigh Apple's not even getting hit by most of it. [TS]

  Yeah [TS]

  but the customer satisfaction with their i Pad goes down they're less satisfied with their product I mean like maybe [TS]

  it's like that doesn't reflect on Apple maybe they blame comics ology But what if they next time there they need to buy [TS]

  a tablet. [TS]

  By then they have long since heard that this isn't a problem on Android and they read you know comics there [TS]

  and can buy them right in the app. [TS]

  Maybe that will change their decision like it's small but you know these little things add up. [TS]

  Books I think is bigger the Kindle app is bigger [TS]

  and they cannot have the advantage that I'm pretty sure you can never buy them [TS]

  and so the collapse was not going to be was ever taken away [TS]

  but if people find out that oh if you get a Kindle Fire you can buy was in the app that may attract them [TS]

  or to rekindle fire especially if they start using a tablet mainly as a Kindle device. [TS]

  I feel like it [TS]

  and you want to said this earlier because the I for me was Mark because the i Pad is so much better than everything [TS]

  else on the market I don't think that customer sat will be influenced negatively enough to level the playing field. [TS]

  I think you're probably right and that's what Apple is counting on to build these little things add up [TS]

  and I was going to send you a chair [TS]

  and says that the white label versions of comics ology are keeping their in that purchase [TS]

  but like I said now that Amazon owns them I wonder how long those white label versions of comics ology Apple are going [TS]

  to be in the world at all but clearly the people who are currently using them. [TS]

  I think the companies that put out the comics themselves actually white label them those people are highly motivated to [TS]

  get away for a people with I O. S. [TS]

  Devices to be able to easily buy their comics [TS]

  and apparently there they have been willing to pay a thirty percent I assume they will continue to be willing to buy [TS]

  thirty percent [TS]

  and that could be a way that Apple quote unquote wins this one by basically saying well no more you can't college [TS]

  anymore we'll still get thirty percent and thirty percent from these other people instead. [TS]

  That's that's potentially true as well. Like I'm just tired of the game of chicken. [TS]

  I feel like it's gone on for too many years [TS]

  and I don't want to see I don't want to see ads coming on to the platform and just. [TS]

  We're all just him of course you can't buy within the application of course you have to do the dance to go through a [TS]

  website and like a little some can look at going to ask me Grampa why why can't I buy things inside applications. [TS]

  They well ten decades ago three decades ago I wrote I can't do math anymore than old Apple decided that they want to [TS]

  charge everybody thirty percent and everyone else aside they were going to pay it [TS]

  and Apple still makes the best tablet that we have to do this because of a fight between these giant corporations. [TS]

  Well we're also sponsor this week by by friends once again a new relic new relic is an all in one web application [TS]

  performance management slash A.P.M. Tool. [TS]

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  who are the three people in that customer's Amazon and Apple. [TS]

  Oh OK but I've heard that in other businesses though is is like that kind of like two companies [TS]

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  Thanks that's new really for sponsoring our show once again. [TS]

  So we done in the comics thing that we don't have anything to say about. [TS]

  I didn't listen to the Back To Work episode yet I'm still behind so I don't know if Marilyn had to say about it [TS]

  but sorry if I repeated I mean the stuff that he said he mostly took the kind of middle moderate ground of like this is [TS]

  all more complicated than we understand [TS]

  and you know we kind of shouldn't be making assumptions like we understand everything going on with these big companies. [TS]

  OK Well yes we did overlap although we did talk about like you know I tried as glamorous as far as we know because who [TS]

  knows like what overture is any one company is making the Apple who knows what response Apple making to them we just [TS]

  know these people are out publicly [TS]

  and what they end up doing I don't think this is this issue is going to be resolved in time soon between you know Apple [TS]

  with their thirty percent rules and they're no less Journal payment processing rules versus Amazon [TS]

  and their desires versus customers and their experience I just you know the Kindle app has been this way for years [TS]

  and it's and has not budged [TS]

  and neither side has budged at all so I don't I don't see that changing for a very similar applet the same parties [TS]

  involved that has a much smaller audience. [TS]

  I just don't see it changing the volume discount thing has the advantage that it lets everybody pretend that they [TS]

  didn't budge because Apple can say well we still apply the same rules to everybody. [TS]

  People say well we were going to do a but we got Apple to change the rules [TS]

  and now you know because what the what that encourages is you're encouraged to drive more business through Iowa sell [TS]

  tons of crap because the more stuff you sell the lower percentage goes and so that would let everybody save face [TS]

  and like you said maybe it wouldn't bring out of them back to the table [TS]

  but even if you ignore Amazon if they're going to be buts about it then fine. [TS]

  Tons of other people be like oh now I am much more highly motivated to figure out a way to sell goods through the app [TS]

  store because I like if I just saw a little bit I find if I sell tons of them as a percentage that gets taken goes down. [TS]

  Only the people selling the most for the app store are you know companies you mention who are using existing in a [TS]

  purchase system to sell digital coins to people who are busily into dollars and write well and they are to like. [TS]

  There is pretty much like besides Amazon one of the one of the major examples are there that would have enough of an [TS]

  impact that that that are in for meeting customers enough and and are bad enough [TS]

  and we know for customers that Apple would be more pressured to act beyond just let's just keep thirty percent of its [TS]

  working great for us. [TS]

  You know you got to convert potential things like if Apple wants to be able to buy things to arrive pads [TS]

  and I think they should because I think that's a great way to buy a lot of content that can be digital. [TS]

  And I think it should use a single unified system that Apple controls for an aperture so everyone isn't like all the [TS]

  things about it that we like. If there was more of that it would be better. [TS]

  So anybody who's going to sell that could potentially find its way through the invisible airwaves to your i Pad should [TS]

  be encouraged to do so. [TS]

  Some of the Sharon brought up like I had look where the revenues coming from of it's all coming from the big guys [TS]

  and they wouldn't change the rate because then they basically Apple would be losing money. [TS]

  Like why would i will ever do get a volume discount of all their income [TS]

  or a huge amount of their income is coming from the big guys. [TS]

  Yeah Apple will make less money like this is the problem of this whole thing is that people you know I go out will run [TS]

  the i Tunes Store break even and that's not really a profit center and I know the App Store is like take up. [TS]

  It's really just enough to keep the lights on but it is always been like apples and know their secret strategy [TS]

  or whatever but it has been pretty clear like you could see Apple five years ago rubbing their hands ears [TS]

  and yes ignore our break even businesses they're totally not there to make money just to make our devices more valuable. [TS]

  They know that it is you know this is what you want the type of system where we don't have to do anything more [TS]

  and we magically get money like the people can drive more and more money through our systems. [TS]

  We like that the margin is better than having to make. [TS]

  Metallic when to sell somebody it's much easier to December let someone tap another button [TS]

  and send get another thirty percent cut of a transaction is going to our system and lo [TS]

  and behold years down the line suddenly Apple's business is like i Tunes is not the roads are going to break even I [TS]

  started to make some significant money in the App Store same thing like oh it starts [TS]

  and it's just enough for us to cover costs or whatever [TS]

  but I have a feeling that Apple would like it if these businesses stop being breakeven [TS]

  and start making some serious money [TS]

  and while people aren't paying attention that's where they're going so any potential planet says we're going to give [TS]

  you less revenue because of your volume discount. It's like Apple might be thinking. [TS]

  I know we've always kind of pretended this is like a break even the we're going to this it might actually be a break in [TS]

  business and we're not Amazon we don't we actually want profit so there are forces against any idea like this [TS]

  but it's almost like I wish it would hurt them more because you're right that it's not hurting them [TS]

  and that it's clear that they have to do this are going to be out of business [TS]

  or they're doing that's totally not the case. [TS]

  It's just like he's just like a little thorn in your side where you know it could be better [TS]

  and some day you are going to have to explain to your mom who got a Kindle Fire [TS]

  when she gets her i Pad the i Pad It's better [TS]

  but I'm I can before I could buy the books on the thing you will have to explain that to her [TS]

  and good luck making it sound reasonable. [TS]

  It's impossible to not reasonable Apple product is worse in this one small way and it galls me [TS]

  or I should just get a patent just buy things and i Books. That's a fate worse than death. [TS]

  Thanks for two or three sponsors this week. [TS]

  Fracture back plays and new relic and we will see you next week after her and she is going on. [TS]

  Yes he was said for that skill list [TS]

  and the director you want talk about this weird test flight thing that we've been putting off forever it's really old [TS]

  news now. I forgot what it is now. [TS]

  So Bursley was acquired to do we even know like is there any actual confirmation that apple of the acquire the Internet [TS]

  said so and I think even that is is not definitely not confirmed [TS]

  but test flight basically just like very quietly shut down like it stop accepting new new applications [TS]

  or new customers to beta test the apps with it and it's just like quietly shutting down [TS]

  and they never made an announcement about this they never explained it. [TS]

  They just like a very very quiet shutdown and so the theory is that Apple bought them [TS]

  and they're probably going to integrate you know maybe first party. [TS]

  Maybe Apple might actually integrate test flight like functionality into the provisioning portal for A.O.S. [TS]

  Absolute we could stop doing the stupid U.T. [TS]

  ID dance with with things like hockey and test flight another beta testing type things but. [TS]

  But I don't know [TS]

  but I would love it to be the case I would love for the story with test flight to be that Apple's building something [TS]

  like this in and that's why it's showing them. But first it was also a big mobile ad company right. [TS]

  Was not or analytics one of those things. [TS]

  So Apple might have wanted it for that [TS]

  and has little side project they had that wasn't making any money travel just you know made them quietly shut down. [TS]

  If you could be any of these things I would put money that they're going to do the thing a test I did inside Apple just [TS]

  because it makes so much sense that I mean any time you see a bunch of third party sites popping up the developers are [TS]

  using like water developers using hockey outlasted Alvarez using test flight. Apple hates that. [TS]

  Yes I think there's something that you know third party developers need to be done. [TS]

  There should not be a thriving ecosystem of companies that serve these developers needs to do these things if the thing [TS]

  they're doing is something like and it's common. So Apple wants to eventually have a solution to do that. [TS]

  If they bought this company [TS]

  and this company did that I would say it's almost guaranteed that what they're trying to do is get something in-house [TS]

  that is similar to the thing that they did. [TS]

  Seattle and probably this is probably just like you saying nothing ever get better in the App Store [TS]

  but it can sometimes. [TS]

  Yeah it's some kind of psychological barrier that I have where especially in areas like this like the provisioning of [TS]

  devices the U.T. [TS]

  ID limits you know beta testing being such a pain I can't fathom Apple actually making a major improvement to this [TS]

  and I guess I will be proven wrong. [TS]

  They're probably still give you a list of ideas that only rotates at a certain level still be plenty things to annoy [TS]

  you I'm sure. [TS]

  Like just general experience of provisioning and the ability of people to easily download betas and distribute. [TS]

  Like I'm assuming they will fix some of the annoyances but I guarantee there will be more there remain. [TS]

  Just don't worry code signing will still be terrible so you'll have that. [TS]

  I don't I mean like I've heard rumblings here and there from the rumor sites [TS]

  and everybody that like you know this might finally be the year where where Apple like really makes things better for [TS]

  developers in the App Store so you know the tools that the Xcode has fantastic been improved a lot. [TS]

  Good to see the language has been improved a lot and all the tools there are really great [TS]

  but then you cross over into like the provisioning and i Tunes connect and the App Store rules [TS]

  and the pricing mechanism and you know upgrade. [TS]

  In trials [TS]

  and all that stuff the developers knowing forever I have no faith that Apple will ever improve that stuff because they [TS]

  Biggest have it like the App Store has been running now for what six years five years and it [TS]

  and this stuff is almost not changed at all. They've been very minor changes. [TS]

  But then to think they have been kind of in the middle of a multi-year arc where they've been adding lots of stuff so [TS]

  fast that they haven't had enough time to essentially make it work. [TS]

  Yeah I mean like that the whole I mean the thing [TS]

  and there's like they've been doing a lot of stuff to code signing provisioning profiles and betas and like [TS]

  and sandboxing in the sandbox bookmarks on the macro opening up like they're adding all sorts of things you can do [TS]

  and revving their compiler children like they've kind of been out running themselves leaving a trail of crappy half [TS]

  implemented things behind them. [TS]

  Hopefully at some point they will get to where they can circle back [TS]

  and say that's what I hope they're doing by buying test lies like we're OK We had a way to do this before the way [TS]

  sucked for years now we finally have a chance to take a breath [TS]

  and say let's go back instead of adding a new capability [TS]

  but merely make it less incredibly unpleasant to do with something that you could previously do you know I mean [TS]

  and I'm hoping that they're at that point I mean I I say it may be a move in that direction as well no there were over [TS]

  the seven hundred you know so I will say yeah maybe. [TS]

  I hope you're right I don't have high hopes I don't have a lot of faith but I but I hope you're right. [TS]

  It might not be this year could be next year. We have made me an asshole. [TS]

  Nope I quietly Bre launched my website that's not on tumblr anymore [TS]

  but one of the your L W W W directly to a stock car really inventive and that's my that's my second crack [TS]

  or third crack if you will and I don't really have a name for it. [TS]

  What do you what is the directory called for the project. It has to have something it does. [TS]

  It's camel CA M E L which is my kind of. [TS]

  Where support man you know how to pronounce a word but you see it on Wikipedia all the time. [TS]

  It's a mash of my first middle names. [TS]

  But anyway so that's all written in node and everyone's probably breaking it now and that's OK. [TS]

  So what's it going to take to get you off of the using your last name of the pond thing as an impossible task. [TS]

  It's never going to happen. [TS]

  No I mean I couldn't think of a good name and I was so that's so in many ways it's kind of a mash up of underscores [TS]

  and your two sites both in terms of inspiration for C.S.S. [TS]

  Inspiration for layout things of that nature and [TS]

  and so I I look to underscore site after I had decided to call this thoughtless and he just calls his David Smith [TS]

  and obviously there's hypercritical there's Marco dot org I don't like A C. [TS]

  List dot com I don't have a fancy pants name like hypercritical that I've been using for forever so I don't know this [TS]

  is the first thing that I came up with that didn't make me gag [TS]

  but I'm not in love with it either so didn't you read that whole post that you wrote about not doubting yourself you [TS]

  should not have the title of the thing that says that your thought was I did I was coming that's why I was like if I'm [TS]

  not in love with what we've got here but. But that's right. [TS]

  I've never seen you use the the list last name pun in a way that wasn't self-deprecating. [TS]

  Well you know that's kind of my schtick because it sounds like the last thing was on a lot of goodwill. [TS]

  Wait less and whatever but this is node [TS]

  and I've been piddling with it a little bit lately I only do a clock on it four hundred five lines of code. [TS]

  Basically the way it works is there's a series of markdown files in a dream directories that match the directories you [TS]

  see in your roles and then there's a header and footer markdown file [TS]

  and so if you go to any of these any of these your L's. [TS]

  And during fireball silence he put out M D at the end it'll show you the source [TS]

  and so I have a little bit about it in its top [TS]

  and then other than that it just processes the markdown files throws on a header or throws on a folder [TS]

  and calls today [TS]

  and so it's four hundred five lines of node using several packages because I haven't yet been horribly burned by third [TS]

  party software and I'm pretty proud of it I like it. [TS]

  Not enough lawless but I like I should call flawless that's why should they go. [TS]

  Finally you figure one out that is not so temperately all because that has flaw in it is like the flaw letters with the [TS]

  flowers. It's like you can use the last name of the I know I know I got to think of a better name. That's pretty even. [TS]

  Even your brag had had if I had offered and he was marked down I might replace mine with it [TS]

  but it does so I want what's wrong with mark down your appearance right on your everything [TS]

  and actually came out straight. [TS]

  Again I find that for me I find it better hope that I don't want to go there no translation. I going to publish H.T.M.L. [TS]

  I know I read it stem out I write it. I publish it. [TS]

  No I don't have to say how I was going to transform I don't need to do it like a transformation it's just not the tower. [TS]

  I don't say that every of us do that [TS]

  but that's the way I do it in a way most people seem to like markdown until they make Ollie that's the work of markdown [TS]

  and if you don't he's marked as well what it's worth marked how much I want to phrase this wrong [TS]

  but the markdown is H.T.M.L. Now that's the other way around. [TS]

  Yeah I know you can just write as you know mark until it's like once and that them without the police. [TS]

  Well so what I'm saying is with the. So if you look at any one of these U R L's and put the dot M D I did. [TS]

  So I'm looking at the A.T.P. [TS]

  Shirts one as example as an example you would have to have the AT and then you know the couple meditator entries. [TS]

  but everything below those. Everything below that can all be straight H.T.M.L. [TS]

  This looks I know but like this looks like my thing like I have the same. [TS]

  Format only don't have at out that have met it in the top.. [TS]

  I just use the email format with the first blank line in the Header section and then I have the H.T.M.L. [TS]

  Yeah I do something similar because I have I have like header format on top. Keep talking all show you one of mine. [TS]

  Mine's weird but it makes sense to me. [TS]

  So in this that's what this is about it made sense to me I wanted to try something that I hadn't done before which is [TS]

  node [TS]

  and I didn't like the code I don't love the code a part of me wants to throw it on get her been embarrassed myself [TS]

  but I really want to fix a few things up for I do it like for example it's a good thing I only have to post on there [TS]

  because if we go if I go past the No ten it's going to look ridiculous because I don't see pagination at the moment the [TS]

  figure that you know I mean [TS]

  and I actually already have a plan I just haven't implemented it yet I'm going to do like the world's worst pagination [TS]

  which is kind of a loose pagination want to get it worked out maybe we'll talk about another after show. [TS]

  But yes I'm I'm pretty proud of it look it's white not because he always says white it's white because I can figure out [TS]

  a background that I wanted to like it of course [TS]

  but I don't know if I felt like I needed to spend all this time like working out better C.S.S. Because I suck at C.S.S. [TS]

  and I for a brief moment like I thought about copying the Marco you know one color at the top [TS]

  and then everything else blow and then I looked at it the way it was and was like you know it's good enough. [TS]

  My wife asked why fuss over it so I'm pretty proud of it as simple as it is [TS]

  and maybe I'll open source it may be along if you're even thinking about showing this code to anybody it is a lot [TS]

  better than throwing because I would never show it. I don't like looking at it myself. [TS]

  If it's bad but it's not awful there's definitely a lot of places where it could be cleaned up in and spruced up [TS]

  and made a lot cleaner I'm repeating myself in several places. [TS]

  But by and large I don't think it's terrible I mean to be honest. [TS]

  How bad can he really screw up four hundred five lines check the scripts Leaving aside the fact that a transcript in a [TS]

  lot of bad jobs you know it's definitely possible when the other thing is this. [TS]

  And I'm looking at the source that you paste in the chat Marco This is not a link blog I have no I have no support for [TS]

  like a link post vs a regular post but so it's just a block but I don't want to get so far. [TS]

  Yeah I don't have any support for playing things either another ever post them [TS]

  but I mean if I did I would guess I would go ahead support whatever the risk is the real problem is that he likes [TS]

  everyone is already used up all the obvious characters for indicating things [TS]

  and I completely agree one hundred percent agree the one hundred percent the problem. [TS]

  Well you could steal my arrow afterwards is there after her before your hour everybody uses [TS]

  and verifiable use of the star for none. [TS]

  A lot of other people you that everyone use the infinity for permalink sinners just like there's no more glyphs So game [TS]

  over. But what's wrong with just using the standard glyph that everyone else uses. [TS]

  If you want to be different Marco you want to be your own special snowflake that he won't want to be a brand where you [TS]

  can't be your own special snowflake That's Dr Dre The real problem with with Link blogs I think is that you know [TS]

  whether there's two problems. [TS]

  Number one is is like what the feed items link to the letter which option you pick people will be upset [TS]

  and confused to different people you know that's true. So that's that's one problem. There's no good solution to that. [TS]

  The other problem is when you're when you choose a title [TS]

  and a length of the post it's confusing as to whether you wrote this whether that's your title of your post or [TS]

  and then like some people will get to get to your link post permalink page [TS]

  and not realize that that big title at the top is a link to something else. [TS]

  Well I mean you can avoid that by not making that the title to be a link to anything on the page [TS]

  when you're viewing it and I mean. [TS]

  When you're viewing [TS]

  when you're viewing just the page it just shows that story the title is not a link everybody thought the title is a [TS]

  link and then you have to choose where you want to go [TS]

  but I would say you may go to that you know I don't know it's like where does the link go [TS]

  and only post on a bronze from it I would say goes the story like I like the idea of linking from the text that you [TS]

  write to the thing you're talking about and not relying on the title to fill that role than kind of redundant [TS]

  but then I don't like that the big problem link blogging is that all of these questions like there's no clear good [TS]

  solution like whatever you pick is going to have to pick one of people and people have to get used to it. [TS]

  Yeah there is that's one of the worst but most people don't think either of us any more these days. [TS]

  Kind of takes care of it so I just use both I have an alternate feed of my footer that that has the other link style I [TS]

  just noticed that earlier today which I had never seen before obviously the other thing I wanted to talk about briefly [TS]

  about this was how I'm hosting it which is to say that I'm put I put it on her Roku because for anyone where I know as [TS]

  they call it it is absolutely free [TS]

  and I have from what I can tell this didn't get absolutely crushed under the load of live listeners. [TS]

  But but what was unique to me was that [TS]

  when I went to deploy to Heroku having never used Heroku before I looked at how to do it [TS]

  and what it amounted to was I needed to add a proc file to my source which specifies that it is a Web site not like a [TS]

  worker's anything like that and it's a node [TS]

  and which node file to run I needed to clean up my package Jason which defines what my dependencies are. [TS]

  But that was it and then I pushed to a get repository that they set up [TS]

  and suddenly I had a website I now know their system anymore because I thought it was generating static files [TS]

  but I forgot that. Actually using a code runs when you know I got a static. [TS]

  Well in so basically everything is generated on the fly leisurely [TS]

  but once it's generated it's held in memory for some amount of time I don't recall. [TS]

  So you're right it isn't static but nevertheless I would assume that it should hold up to some pretty heavy load. [TS]

  Well you can do the the credit thing which I considered before I decided even this was too much work with make a system [TS]

  a demo here it's web pages and is Croyde yourself to create your static pages and upload the stuff [TS]

  or maybe someone in your ignorance coming through [TS]

  but if I have everything in memory how is it going to be that hard to answer. [TS]

  Because billion requests like it's all there it's rendered H.T.M.L. In memory. [TS]

  I just gotta look it up from a hash and dump it to the to the to the requests [TS]

  or to the response object so what else is there to worry about [TS]

  but the thing with with all the static blogging systems static blogging is is really great but [TS]

  and I use it on my site but you can get almost all of the benefit from just caching [TS]

  and we can start a blog you have to change a few things. [TS]

  If you do static want to main things is you have to serve the same markup to everybody in the same seat like you have [TS]

  to serve the same content for every hit you can do server side browser detection or device to action. [TS]

  Altering what you send in a mobile way out separately like you have to serve everyone the same market [TS]

  but with responsive design and with the removal of comments [TS]

  or even outsourcing comments to other services like discussed where you just embed a static javascript link [TS]

  and the thing works. You know if you really all dynamic functionality to javascript embeds or to C.S.S. [TS]

  With response Bisan then it works now. [TS]

  You can do that exact same thing either through a static system [TS]

  or just just put like a caching proxy in front of your server and put like you know. Varnish or our engine X. [TS]

  In caching mode you know put those in furniture we're just have a cash every hit for one second. [TS]

  That's it cash every pay your service with T.T.L. [TS]

  Of one second you'll be able to tolerate almost every possible flood of traffic you will ever get. [TS]

  Even if the thing to be generated from a database on every hit that actually gets through it's a static point [TS]

  and it does offer high performance but it also just offers a pretty strong degree of simplicity for deployment. [TS]

  So the again I like I'm not doing it for performance reasons doink isn't cheap. Hank is there anywhere. [TS]

  SUPER to like I don't need anything to run any code [TS]

  and that's like it's not just people like you have the most options like it will literally work everywhere there is no [TS]

  you don't need to run anything you don't need to have any in software there is no software like that's static blogging [TS]

  is not underarms reasons it's just mostly for just you have all the options in the world it's going to work everywhere [TS]

  on every single hosting thing you can possibly imagine. [TS]

  And yes it will also happen to be performant and all of them [TS]

  but that's not really why you're doing it like it just keeps the whole Ana there is software they just move it. [TS]

  I mean that's what they like you said there's no suburb unless you're actually writing H.T.M.L. [TS]

  Pages which most people are not doing. There absolutely is. [TS]

  Software involved and it has to be maintained and has to run somewhere. [TS]

  It is running on your computer like the thing that generates the files. [TS]

  Oh yeah no yeah well I mean get [TS]

  but you control that like it's not your deployment options are unlimited you can move from one hosting provider to [TS]

  another you don't have to worry if they if they don't it's a board no day as sir. [TS]

  DEVORE different version or make something [TS]

  or complicated thing you need a different point it's like it is arcing file somewhere [TS]

  and that's you know if you have a site that actually gets traffic then you don't worry about this [TS]

  and find write some code to play I don't like my site doesn't get in traffic I want the cheapest possible thing I can [TS]

  possibly get and that ends up being static hosting and you know if you get what you pay for [TS]

  but US That's why I did it static [TS]

  and that now because I was looking performance like Occasionally I do get traffic Burress [TS]

  and it's nice that I don't have to worry about them because again stay on it. [TS]

  But it is super staggers and some people like well it's static [TS]

  but I use like you know some server side include system [TS]

  or something to put in headers No one hundred percent static Yeah [TS]

  and that's the thing is that admitted Li this is dynamic the first run [TS]

  but like I said you know as soon as I've parsed the markdown for any of these pages it's held in memory for at least [TS]

  half an hour if not more than that until I either deliberately toss the cash or you know at times out of whatever. [TS]

  So this isn't a challenge or anything like that [TS]

  but I I feel like I should in principle be able to understand it to handle a crowd or the traffic without crumbling. [TS]

  Yeah like years of static in the respect that really matters for performance [TS]

  and that you're not like talking to it you're not talking to a database. [TS]

  Sample the files that you're reading are static they just happen to be some of markdown [TS]

  and you do a little bit of post processing in memory and [TS]

  and it's not like you know it is a single process like event driven right you know the same thing over others that you [TS]

  don't you know the worry about your cache getting divided through a patch you children [TS]

  or some other concern that you might have some fun [TS]

  and really just like me no one's going to read your blog so we're both except really really no one's going to read my [TS]

  blog Whereas me [TS]

  and nobody reads Here's where you can compete you'll be surprised if you could will read my blog where you never post [TS]

  which says that exactly if you know imposing nobody read another works and admittedly I'm not good at that either [TS]

  and I'm hoping this will make me better [TS]

  but I don't know yet I just it was a lot of fun it was a lot of fun to do I'm still I'm still very impressed with how [TS]

  unbelievably simple Heroku was to deploy to. [TS]

  Because truly I had heard of it but never really done anything with it [TS]

  and it must of been well under half an hour maybe even under fifteen minutes between the time I said you know what let [TS]

  me just see if I can throw this on her Roku and if it'll work and the time that I had it not only up there [TS]

  but I updated my D.M.'s to point to it. It was unbelievably quick and easy and that that really is awesome. [TS]

  But at the five dollars a month if yo dollars a month. Yeah yeah he's beating you up. [TS]

  Yeah I guess that's true but then he's stuck the point some places for snow days you know they also support P.H.P. [TS]

  Now what sort of one of the limits like Wendy's had to start paying. [TS]

  I have no I honestly don't know I mean basically if I had more web front ends then that costs money [TS]

  but in terms of like bandwidth or you know I don't know if it if after thirty gigs used or something like that [TS]

  or you're not going to have a band with limited IP like C.P.U. [TS]

  Time or something we need to do is get one of your stories to go over like Hacker News [TS]

  and like a bunch of other sites simultaneously saying The Daring Fireball link and Marco a link it [TS]

  and everyone will tweet it [TS]

  and we'll see if you get into the pay czar because I like the part even though I don't have an ending my blog post [TS]

  every once in a while some random story will land on some social media site [TS]

  and all of a sudden I'll have a spike it's not a big spike [TS]

  but it's big enough that I would worry that I would go out of the Free Zone [TS]

  and start getting charge them praising them. I love that that's how the world control K.Z. By making him popular. [TS]

  Yeah I think we need a way to test the system there right. [TS]