The Incomparable

252: Three Shames and a Ding


  the incomparable number 250 through jun [TS]

  welcome back everybody to the [TS]

  uncomfortable i am your host jason's [TS]

  deli [TS]

  we're here with our what has become an [TS]

  annual tradition where we wrap up two [TS]

  things at once the season of Game of [TS]

  Thrones and we talk about other shows [TS]

  that we watched if we can remember them [TS]

  this season that's it so what the way [TS]

  with this is gonna work we're going to [TS]

  do some stuff about other shows at a [TS]

  high level that we that we liked maybe [TS]

  just like don't know that we can [TS]

  remember and then we will shift gears [TS]

  and blow the spoiler horn and talk about [TS]

  the season of Game of Thrones joining me [TS]

  to talk about TV from this past season [TS]

  of fine panel of people David lawyers [TS]

  out there hello David [TS]

  hey hey um I'm looking forward to [TS]

  talking about Malini sure sure [TS]

  10 more and also that there hello winter [TS]

  was with is going on the tanker winter [TS]

  is no longer coming [TS]

  it's always good with your left yeah so [TS]

  many years ago we got tired of your best [TS]

  couple [TS]

  Erica and sign hello hello no it'sit's [TS]

  spring it's the spring of my [TS]

  discontinued almost summer and John [TS]

  siracusa is out there hi john i'm sad [TS]

  not to be doing this in person i know [TS]

  you'll be old ways are best [TS]

  yeah I know but they moved to Game of [TS]

  Thrones still later so we can't do it in [TS]

  person anymore and joining us as a [TS]

  special guest one of the people with [TS]

  money actually he's not here who helped [TS]

  me recap episode by episode the game of [TS]

  thrones season on the TV podcast part of [TS]

  the grating comfortable network it's [TS]

  brian hamilton hi Brian very happy to be [TS]

  here Jason [TS]

  okay before we get to Game of Thrones [TS]

  let's talk about some other shows that [TS]

  we saw the season just I mean this is [TS]

  really just an excuse to bring up some [TS]

  shows that you watched that you liked or [TS]

  that you didn't like just to get him out [TS]

  there because we feel like this is as [TS]

  good a time as any to kind of bookmark [TS]

  be you know close the books on the TV [TS]

  that we've been watching the last year [TS]

  Dan more when we start with you with [TS]

  their shows that you wanna you wanna [TS]

  honor here or dishonor either way [TS]

  yeah yeah either I there are there are [TS]

  many shows that water and we spent we [TS]

  spent a long podcast talking about many [TS]

  of the superheroes lyrics that we we [TS]

  people show that i won't go into more [TS]

  detail on that i will say a couple of [TS]

  shows that i really enjoyed this year um [TS]

  justified came to an end after six [TS]

  seasons in a really i thought really [TS]

  nice wrap up one of the best sort of [TS]

  cohesive crime TV shows that i've seen [TS]

  the last several years that's one [TS]

  otherwise all-time favorites [TS]

  she likes a great it's a great show it's [TS]

  well-written it's funny but it's also [TS]

  you know intense dramatic at points [TS]

  Timothy Olyphant is fantastic hard to [TS]

  you know give him enough credit as [TS]

  nectar and walton goggins also fantastic [TS]

  he's if you've seen him on the shield or [TS]

  in his various other performances this [TS]

  is this is truly I think one of his best [TS]

  roles so i think that was among my [TS]

  favorite shows this year [TS]

  brooklyn nine-nine I had a headache [TS]

  solid second season i really enjoyed [TS]

  that [TS]

  yeah I don't watch a lot of sitcoms but [TS]

  that was one that made it to the to the [TS]

  top there and I really really liked it [TS]

  that is my favorite comedy on TV right [TS]

  now is provided 9i think I wouldn't do [TS]

  that i think i would agree with that and [TS]

  then the other thing I was going to [TS]

  mention which of course is now is just [TS]

  totally flown out of how it's going to [TS]

  mention of Star Wars rebels is a the [TS]

  animated show which is fantastic i [TS]

  really i just got into a clone wars last [TS]

  year and sort of gone back and watch all [TS]

  that on netflix and while I really came [TS]

  to love that show I you know I and they [TS]

  sort of cancel it before its time I was [TS]

  like well as hold and making a new show [TS]

  is probably gonna suck a nice are [TS]

  watching it's really good and if you are [TS]

  if you have watched clone wars it is it [TS]

  is a successor to clone wars like there [TS]

  is direct contracts out there is is [TS]

  there Dan yes like the last seen it [TS]

  makes it very clear that there is direct [TS]

  community like Star Wars rebels a lot it [TS]

  is great fun and it's about like the [TS]

  early days of the rebellion basically [TS]

  right before that the original Star Wars [TS]

  movies up and and you've got some great [TS]

  you know performances Freddie Prinze jr. [TS]

  plays a place a Jedi [TS]

  yeah you know and a lot of other eight [TS]

  great characters in there too who are [TS]

  who are just really well-drawn it's sort [TS]

  of like a it's fun because you get the [TS]

  like sort of band of misfits yeah [TS]

  they're traveling together for like yeah [TS]

  the rebellions not quite a thing yet but [TS]

  there are lots of appearances by [TS]

  characters from the original movies from [TS]

  Clone Wars you know like there's [TS]

  definitely some time [TS]

  in there and so it feels like a really [TS]

  it feels like a really solid part of the [TS]

  star wars universe and I think and I and [TS]

  all the characters are really well [TS]

  fleshed out i think they do a nice job [TS]

  of spending time with each of them and [TS]

  making you actually care about what [TS]

  happens to them so I've actually seen [TS]

  the premiere of the second season [TS]

  because they showed its star wars [TS]

  celebration and its really knock your [TS]

  socks off is all i'm going to say and [TS]

  I'm really looking forward to the season [TS]

  look at this guy [TS]

  thank you thank you acknowledged yeah i [TS]

  think that show like Clone Wars has a [TS]

  certain sadness over it because you know [TS]

  yep what has to happen before the [TS]

  beginning of a new hope so all the [TS]

  characters that you're looking hang out [TS]

  with and enjoying at the very least [TS]

  they're going to be defeated exiled [TS]

  hidden or whatever [TS]

  most likely they'll be dead if we're [TS]

  going to go with the continuity like how [TS]

  many Jedi were hanging around the [TS]

  beginning of a new hope that many so is [TS]

  a bunch of Jedi hanging out here maybe [TS]

  don't get too attached that's kind of [TS]

  set like you know that this rebellion is [TS]

  not going to be triumphant because it's [TS]

  only triumph it's barely trying to the [TS]

  end of a new hope certain this is the [TS]

  series are going to end so I I kind of [TS]

  feel that melancholy watching all these [TS]

  characters like they're they're giving [TS]

  it their best effort there flying around [TS]

  there being trouble for the empire but [TS]

  in the end it's gonna need a farm boy [TS]

  here [TS]

  yep yep it's a good show up that's been [TS]

  the dinner time entertainment with my [TS]

  family like something the whole family [TS]

  can watch I anyone anymore damn i just [TS]

  to say that this was apparently the year [TS]

  where all of my shows ended because in [TS]

  addition to justified Parenthood parks [TS]

  and recreation mad men there are at [TS]

  least a couple others in there to work [TS]

  and some of us the USA shows which I [TS]

  enjoyed sadly got cancelled like covert [TS]

  affairs which i think i mentioned last [TS]

  year's TV podcast which I really liked [TS]

  was really good spy drama and they [TS]

  cancelled it so yeah my uh my list of [TS]

  shows has been window down and two shows [TS]

  that I Drive will say two shows that i [TS]

  dropped after watching the first season [TS]

  and and sort of half-heartedly enjoying [TS]

  the first season with the black list and [TS]

  sleepy hollow i watch the first couple [TS]

  episodes of the season of both of them [TS]

  was like we're not really doing anything [TS]

  for me so I kind of gave up on those [TS]

  which is I I haven't really miss them [TS]

  sleepy hollow really lots lost its way [TS]

  this year which is too bad because i [TS]

  really like the first yeah i like the [TS]

  first season on [TS]

  and I didn't like how they ended it seem [TS]

  like that kind of rippled into the [TS]

  entire second season and I didn't care [TS]

  for it [TS]

  Erica what do you have for us i kinda [TS]

  wish Scott McNulty was here because he [TS]

  sort of my the good wife buddy [TS]

  oh yeah the other person that I know [TS]

  that really watches that show which I [TS]

  have to say I was kind of disappointed [TS]

  with this season of it I I like [TS]

  courtroom drama and this this season was [TS]

  a lot more political drama and I don't [TS]

  care for that quite as much so I was a [TS]

  little little disappointing but it looks [TS]

  like it might go back to the courtroom [TS]

  next year so i'm i'm not giving up until [TS]

  next season starts [TS]

  somebody get disbarred or something but [TS]

  no she was running for um she's running [TS]

  for some sort of office and then of [TS]

  course because you know you can't have [TS]

  you can't have that because she's not [TS]

  she's the lawyer by the end it all does [TS]

  not work out in her favor and she has to [TS]

  go back into practice and and the big [TS]

  cliffhanger was Michael J Fox coming up [TS]

  and saying would you like to me while my [TS]

  partner and he's like he's a horrible [TS]

  person so that nobody nobody wants that [TS]

  except Dewey mmm yeah so I've got the [TS]

  good wife and castle is the only other [TS]

  thing I've watched but i don't really [TS]

  have much to say about castle because [TS]

  it's like i'll put it on when I'm eating [TS]

  it's like my popcorn show disorder zone [TS]

  out and just enjoy the the formula which [TS]

  is exactly the same on every single [TS]

  episode so but it's nice when they do [TS]

  like funny ones and they do they they're [TS]

  clever still I think you know they have [TS]

  a surprising amount of gas looking to [TS]

  take after this many seasons definitely [TS]

  appreciate a show that doesn't take [TS]

  itself too seriously and that is [TS]

  absolutely castle they did not take [TS]

  themselves too seriously they're they're [TS]

  not afraid of a good pastiche and I [TS]

  appreciate that I've never seen castle [TS]

  but don't they really like doing [TS]

  nathan fillion references to other [TS]

  obvious LOL oh yeah yeah that's and I'm [TS]

  good with it they know that these so [TS]

  much of that show relies on the charm of [TS]

  nathan fillion and they just as with [TS]

  anything open Jillian yeah exactly like [TS]

  well let's just let up do kinda like [TS]

  whatever he wants to do really and it [TS]

  seems like they let him work in jokes [TS]

  are pretty much anything there so that's [TS]

  always fun and and they throw in some [TS]

  occasional like running continuity [TS]

  things which are you know interesting [TS]

  but this season was a little strange [TS]

  that department they still had some good [TS]

  episode so it's it's a solid show as I [TS]

  learned from Scott and Anthony talking [TS]

  on the unjustly maligned podcast [TS]

  scotland ltd [TS]

  episode there about murder she wrote [TS]

  castle is basically murder he wrote [TS]

  pretty quick actually really is which is [TS]

  not doing nothing wrong with that is [TS]

  that is Comfort television [TS]

  yep David what about you what shows you [TS]

  have for us well the only thing I [TS]

  watched more than Game of Thrones this [TS]

  year with CSI cyber cyber don't steal my [TS]

  show david i'm going to talk about CSI [TS]

  site now I was examining we talked about [TS]

  all the superheroes shows so won't even [TS]

  spend time on that but outside of the [TS]

  hose I i watched Jane the Virgin [TS]

  actually on tagged Goodman's [TS]

  recommendation and fell in love with [TS]

  that right show just delightful [TS]

  I i enjoyed blackish and fresh off the [TS]

  boat both on ABC both sitcoms both a [TS]

  different take on family's it comes from [TS]

  what we're seeing these days so I was [TS]

  still watching Brooklyn nine-nine still [TS]

  love Brooklyn nine-nine I love to the [TS]

  parks and recreation finale and in case [TS]

  in case there are people who haven't [TS]

  seen it at all I will say is it ends [TS]

  just perfectly really does spent the [TS]

  entire season this entire season of it [TS]

  was just the perfect absolutely from [TS]

  start to finish i think they pretty much [TS]

  nailed it like that is might be one of [TS]

  the best last season's of television [TS]

  I've ever seen and in just the the one [TS]

  episode that's basically Amy Poehler and [TS]

  nick offerman and that's it [TS]

  yeah it was spectacular that might be [TS]

  maybe my favorite episode of the whole [TS]

  series might be the best [TS]

  yeah I i have enjoyed iZombie has been [TS]

  getting on a little bit [TS]

  Rob Thomas Joe totally been meaning to [TS]

  watch that but haven't yet so my god is [TS]

  backed up we are well yeah no I mean I [TS]

  am trying to think and they have been a [TS]

  lot of new shows this year besides jane [TS]

  the virgin and [TS]

  and the superhero shows but one show [TS]

  that surprised me this year and this [TS]

  again this is one that I never would [TS]

  have watched all you know just was like [TS]

  oh it's another check Lori sitcom but [TS]

  you know Todd vanderwerff and a whole [TS]

  bunch of other TV critics said no no you [TS]

  should give mom another chance [TS]

  it's turned into a really good show wow [TS]

  it's a solid sitcom i'm not going to say [TS]

  it's the most brilliant thing on earth [TS]

  but it allows the characters to be [TS]

  serious and it deals with some pretty [TS]

  intense addiction stories and relapses [TS]

  and death and you know not you know it [TS]

  did they don't know live in a fancy [TS]

  house and they don't all have money and [TS]

  then they don't have the perfect job and [TS]

  it's not like what you're seeing on [TS]

  network TV right now it's really [TS]

  interesting [TS]

  I mean Allison Janney come on she's [TS]

  brilliant [TS]

  so yeah it's that has surprised me it's [TS]

  still not appointment television I'm [TS]

  still not going out of my way to watch [TS]

  it but when i come across it and we [TS]

  leave it on [TS]

  critics are raving I left and I left the [TS]

  time I didn't turn away from blah but it [TS]

  Brian what what shows did you bring for [TS]

  us and I know you're primarily here [TS]

  talking of Thrones but we should also [TS]

  get your your input on television again [TS]

  know the thing I watched the most this [TS]

  season was Game of Thrones on my [TS]

  favorite thing i watch this year was an [TS]

  old show party down i binge the entire [TS]

  it is sick [TS]

  oh my god i'm not a fan of the like [TS]

  awkward sitcom comedy things I feel like [TS]

  the best evolution of it since the [TS]

  original office was party down and it [TS]

  was i'm amazed it's taken me this long [TS]

  to see it [TS]

  what else uhhhh another plug for [TS]

  Brooklyn nine-nine my favorite currently [TS]

  running show it's the second season is [TS]

  flawless a shout to Bob's Burgers i [TS]

  really enjoyed this fifth season the I [TS]

  enjoy watching the show not really [TS]

  knowing what it is in the first season [TS]

  trying to replicate early simpsons with [TS]

  some really raunchy jokes but as it [TS]

  picked up with lots of little kids and [TS]

  things like that [TS]

  the show's really evolved and it's [TS]

  starting to become [TS]

  more zany more silly way more pop [TS]

  culture references lots of just letting [TS]

  the comedians that run the voice cast of [TS]

  the show just kind of go off and [TS]

  throwing whatever they want in the in [TS]

  the dialogue and it's wonderful what [TS]

  else i do want to give a shout out to a [TS]

  mini series that aired last October on [TS]

  cartoon network called over the garden [TS]

  wall which is a brilliant little [TS]

  10-episode thing that they aired over [TS]

  the course of a week [TS]

  it takes maybe 90 minutes to watch the [TS]

  entire thing in one sitting it is if [TS]

  adventuretime met year walk for iOS it [TS]

  is a beautifully animated heartbreaking [TS]

  story about two young boys wandering the [TS]

  woods running away from an evil beast [TS]

  and it becomes it's more episodic than [TS]

  that but it is a really beautiful [TS]

  I I don't say avant-garde but it's very [TS]

  unique and what it is it's almost like [TS]

  it takes the adventure time [TS]

  sensibilities and makes it scary Marlins [TS]

  talk about this on a few other shows [TS]

  it's my favorite thing from last year [TS]

  and then this year was definitely a [TS]

  Bob's Burgers and Brooklyn nine-nine [TS]

  great choices [TS]

  let's take a break i'm going to tell you [TS]

  about our sponsor today it is my good [TS]

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  people handling your mail nerds nerds is [TS]

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  account thank you so much demand for [TS]

  filtering all span out of my email and [TS]

  for sponsoring me uncomfortable [TS]

  John I have very little connection to [TS]

  what is this season or whatever so I'm [TS]

  just going to talk about shows that i [TS]

  watched sure you'll tell me if it was [TS]

  actually less all right all all judge [TS]

  season or not season or not mad men [TS]

  which has mentioned many times already i [TS]

  pi really have always enjoyed that show [TS]

  and I thought the ending of it was sort [TS]

  of just right and also not satisfying to [TS]

  most people and that like I i think a [TS]

  lot of people wanted it to end how it [TS]

  sounds like parks and rec and did like [TS]

  oh you know and so our story is done and [TS]

  it has come to a satisfying conclusion [TS]

  when what madman is much more true to [TS]

  the spirit of the show which is the [TS]

  people in the show some of them have [TS]

  changed since season one in ways of [TS]

  minor and major but our hero don draper [TS]

  and the general direction of you know [TS]

  sort of humanity in the show like you [TS]

  did [TS]

  people don't change as much as you think [TS]

  they do like the people who came to [TS]

  status to sort of happier endings always [TS]

  had that in him from the beginning of [TS]

  season one and Don will always be done [TS]

  always do the thing that Don does and [TS]

  this season he just continued to do the [TS]

  dog thing he did one more time one last [TS]

  time and it is not a bow tied up on his [TS]

  life it is a continuation of his life in [TS]

  the fashion that it has been progressing [TS]

  you know with with changes in two [TS]

  different you know people get older [TS]

  people move on [TS]

  people get divorced people die [TS]

  businesses dissolved but in the end he's [TS]

  him he continues to be him and I think a [TS]

  lot of people found that unsatisfying [TS]

  like you know but didn't you learn [TS]

  anything from this TV that I watched [TS]

  like now he's still himself and he's [TS]

  still doing what he does [TS]

  I and he still has all his problems he [TS]

  hasn't really solved his problems he's [TS]

  living the life that Don Draper will [TS]

  continue to live long after we stopped [TS]

  watching on the show and i found that [TS]

  you know sort of not satisfying from [TS]

  like a story perspective of like now [TS]

  you've tied everyone up and everyone [TS]

  lands in the place you think they [TS]

  deserve but in a realistic things like [TS]

  it's not about deserve it's about this [TS]

  is what this character that we've firmly [TS]

  established over five seasons [TS]

  this is what he's like and this is what [TS]

  he's going to continue to be like and so [TS]

  I give it props for bravery kind of in [TS]

  the same way The Sopranos and anything I [TS]

  really liked that a lot of people really [TS]

  hated that was also true to it it's show [TS]

  I I can't take the opposite view of the [TS]

  finale which I loved but i think i think [TS]

  he does actually change in the finale is [TS]

  a change he just does something he [TS]

  always does is it you know what I don't [TS]

  know what but he's a he's at peace with [TS]

  it and he's become a better version of [TS]

  himself I mean he's broken before he [TS]

  gets to that right it really added up [TS]

  but has a hit bottom he's got into lots [TS]

  of little dips then he comes out of it [TS]

  and then he is re-energized for his work [TS]

  in his life and his relationships and [TS]

  then he descends again and then he comes [TS]

  out of it and that like every time he [TS]

  can't handle like oh I'm just making ads [TS]

  for a living I'm not being true to [TS]

  myself and that my relationships don't [TS]

  work because I don't know how to love [TS]

  that i have these needs and above all [TS]

  but wait a second advertising is great [TS]

  and I'm going to parlay my emotions into [TS]

  making right ahead but oh it's all for [TS]

  nothing like this is our he shows up and [TS]

  down up and down and he just he goes [TS]

  maybe goes down a little bit deeper and [TS]

  he goes up a little bit higher but it's [TS]

  just that the Don Draper roller coaster [TS]

  well I think he's following the template [TS]

  of his life yeah i mean that's that's [TS]

  his coping mechanism [TS]

  I think this time I mean it's it's [TS]

  pretty clear that he's he's out there [TS]

  for much longer than the show allows him [TS]

  you know we just sort of see like I [TS]

  don't know a minute at the end where [TS]

  he's out at the ocean that he's doing [TS]

  this he's doing that I i think it's [TS]

  meant to be a much longer period of time [TS]

  to think the oscillation is increasing [TS]

  like whatever they did the time between [TS]

  the dips is stretching out as he gets [TS]

  older yeah yeah and and does he [TS]

  completely changed i don't know i don't [TS]

  think so but I think he's he's finally [TS]

  reached the best version of Don Draper [TS]

  that he can be yeah i think i think that [TS]

  version of that 660 would be better [TS]

  because i think the Ark's will [TS]

  eventually go out to be longer and [TS]

  longer and he'll use he'll either end on [TS]

  a high or low but either way I'm glad [TS]

  that it wasn't like and now all those [TS]

  problems you saw him having for five [TS]

  seasons are gone and he's coming for [TS]

  them and he now has healthy [TS]

  relationships and he has a family and [TS]

  he's satisfied in his work that's not [TS]

  gonna that's not gonna happen for him [TS]

  yes then that was not gonna happen yeah [TS]

  the one that I was a little bit [TS]

  disappointed because I mean I just I [TS]

  choose to believe that the p campbell [TS]

  will make a disaster of his life [TS]

  oh yeah but it seems like yeah let's go [TS]

  off to wichita where we goin on our [TS]

  private jet and we're back together like [TS]

  that's got disaster written all over it [TS]

  and my first thought was that was plane [TS]

  crash [TS]

  well not playing crash but like he's [TS]

  gonna mess up in the way that he always [TS]

  does [TS]

  yeah he'll stick his foot in his mouth [TS]

  and then someone else's mouth and yeah I [TS]

  couldn't tell they were trying to say [TS]

  hey Pete finally got it together and the [TS]

  lesson of the show is nobody ever gets [TS]

  it together and that's why I feel like [TS]

  out you know Peggy and Joan and all like [TS]

  they were always those people they were [TS]

  just like but because of their [TS]

  inexperience and the times in the [TS]

  position they were in they had to claw [TS]

  their way up to what they could have [TS]

  always been you know to begin with right [TS]

  now although i still think Peggy should [TS]

  that should be it at I always found it [TS]

  odd that Peggy did not spend more time [TS]

  as far as where dwelling on her baby [TS]

  that she gave away it seems like [TS]

  something you would think about a lot [TS]

  but it never came up in the show we [TS]

  don't know what she's thinking we're not [TS]

  inside her brain but it seemed it seemed [TS]

  like the show didn't want to dwell on [TS]

  that after season one [TS]

  yeah and so what other shows up I'm [TS]

  continue to watch orphan black and enjoy [TS]

  it [TS]

  I haven't even noticed I don't think the [TS]

  season isn't over i think it is not as [TS]

  good as it was but it still this is kind [TS]

  of my castle orphan black is my castle [TS]

  like all right you know i watch it it's [TS]

  fun [TS]

  our kind of silly I don't take it too [TS]

  serious not you don't take it too [TS]

  seriously the performances are still fun [TS]

  i think the mythology of the show is [TS]

  already a mess and was like all right [TS]

  well it wasn't her it was a mess last [TS]

  year so it's only just gotten workers [TS]

  it's not getting better [TS]

  house of cards also kind of I mean that [TS]

  that's coming to a conclusion i assume [TS]

  in the next season it's heading to her [TS]

  like where can you really go after where [TS]

  they are on the season [TS]

  things are falling apart as predicted [TS]

  they would the characters and [TS]

  performances are still good the [TS]

  political intrigue is so so I missed the [TS]

  west wing gonna miss the pi miss me [TS]

  being the age I was when the west wing [TS]

  is on because i feel like every watch it [TS]

  now would not like it as much [TS]

  yes yes trust me on that no I i know i [TS]

  said i would want rewatched it fairly [TS]

  recently within the last year too and I [TS]

  thought most would still held up pretty [TS]

  good at all but anyway house of cards is [TS]

  a poor substitute for that i'm looking [TS]

  forward to orange is the new black you [TS]

  know haven't seen it because i like that [TS]

  show that shows a much more fun with [TS]

  other ones listed girls had another [TS]

  season also a show that is having [TS]

  difficulty Reeve you know finding this [TS]

  spirit that having season 1 but I still [TS]

  watch it because it's interesting in the [TS]

  episode is short and make me laugh and [TS]

  finally I don't know if this was the [TS]

  season and Sons of Anarchy to that end [TS]

  now [TS]

  yeah there's a seven-year i started sort [TS]

  of hate watching it is like oh this is [TS]

  silly show and I actually kind of got [TS]

  into it in some of the you know middle [TS]

  seasons may season to season 3 i'm like [TS]

  you know this is kind of like especially [TS]

  the one that ended with like a [TS]

  successful caper by the people and you [TS]

  know all the movie stuff with the main [TS]

  character deciding what he's going to do [TS]

  with his life early on and then they you [TS]

  know that kind of found its footing as i [TS]

  will show about a bunch of biker gangs [TS]

  and [TS]

  how they're finding their way and then [TS]

  do it doesn't even care if I spoils of [TS]

  America you shouldn't but doesn't spoil [TS]

  her again at the end of the second to [TS]

  last season when what's your name for [TS]

  madmen get stabbed in the back of the [TS]

  head with a fork [TS]

  I said you know what eff this show and [TS]

  then i watch the final season because [TS]

  that's what you do now man and the final [TS]

  season did not redeem it after that [TS]

  that's when the show entirely lost me it [TS]

  had built up to a point where they could [TS]

  have had something that was in keeping [TS]

  with with the story and the characters [TS]

  and they went for the drama and the gore [TS]

  and the over-the-top miss and the final [TS]

  season is just nothing they could do it [TS]

  they not that I really cared so much [TS]

  about these characters but after that I [TS]

  felt betrayed by the people who made the [TS]

  show and just disgusted by the show in [TS]

  general so i watch the pilot season it [TS]

  was stupid and the ending who cares [TS]

  don't bother watching sons of anarchy or [TS]

  if you do stop before the second last [TS]

  season [TS]

  from what I've seen of sons of anarchy [TS]

  Breaking Bad to the better job of doing [TS]

  sons of anarchy that its last episodes [TS]

  then sons of anarchy [TS]

  don't even mention those who shows in [TS]

  the same time yeah please not Sully the [TS]

  name of breaking bed right anything else [TS]

  that's very i forgot to shows [TS]

  okay see this is why don't I am a [TS]

  superhero shows because we did [TS]

  California the whole thing about that [TS]

  down okay we have their British that's [TS]

  why I forgot them the third season of [TS]

  Ripper Street which got resurrected by [TS]

  amazon i believe is really really good [TS]

  I enjoyed the first two seasons of that [TS]

  Jerome Flynn who plays Braun on Game of [TS]

  Thrones plays ate a detective which [TS]

  what's it's a BBC series it's a BBC [TS]

  america think I know it's one of those [TS]

  weirdos that's like owned by various [TS]

  people but like Amazon apparently rescue [TS]

  because they were going to cancel it and [TS]

  they return renewed it for like two more [TS]

  seasons so it's going to go on for a [TS]

  while [TS]

  matthew macfadyen to who i also really [TS]

  like and that's a good victorian-era [TS]

  crime show and this season has a nice [TS]

  sort of ongoing plot even as it delves [TS]

  into you know one off things including [TS]

  an episode that's like kind of like a [TS]

  bottle episode that's pretty well done [TS]

  is a mystery and then I've been watching [TS]

  all of this is not new this season I've [TS]

  been watching endeavor [TS]

  which is the a prequel to the young [TS]

  inspector morse basically an Oxford in [TS]

  the nineteen sixties and it's it's a [TS]

  it's one thing shows up on like a [TS]

  masterpiece on like mystery or something [TS]

  its but they're like hour-and-a-half [TS]

  episodes but there's like only four [TS]

  episodes in the season but it's fun it's [TS]

  really well done it's just the guy who [TS]

  plays the main characters is excellent [TS]

  and shave Roger elements is Roger Allam [TS]

  SE exaggerated asstastic he is so [TS]

  good-looking detective detective [TS]

  Inspector Thursday [TS]

  yeah so I really like that show I've [TS]

  only watched i think most of the first [TS]

  season and I think it's on season two [TS]

  right now or it's finished season two so [TS]

  I i give that a big thumbs up as [TS]

  something i started watching this was a [TS]

  little over a year ago but true [TS]

  detective season two is coming next week [TS]

  or so season one kind of last year [TS]

  really fantastic i'll have to say about [TS]

  that cat was definitely no this isn't [TS]

  right guys it was real I mean seasons [TS]

  are all breaking down that was in the [TS]

  summer so was it was been it's been a [TS]

  year since we talked about this and true [TS]

  detective premiered I think after we [TS]

  talked about so you throw that in there [TS]

  you're not going to lose any points if [TS]

  you're also not going to give me points [TS]

  because i'm not i don't have a lot to [TS]

  add david took my mention of CSI cyber [TS]

  as I've detailed on the TV talking [TS]

  machine podcast CSI cyber the CSI stands [TS]

  for cyber cyber investigation the second [TS]

  cyber spelled with an S see the seam a [TS]

  stand for CBS I'm not sure [TS]

  anyway it's really statement stands for [TS]

  synergy CSI cyber it's spectacularly [TS]

  stupid show [TS]

  watch it and laugh if you like it is I i [TS]

  would suggest going to completing the [TS]

  war or award for the dumbest show of the [TS]

  season and I saw scorpion which is [TS]

  really close which is also amazingly [TS]

  done but so is this millions it down [TS]

  yeah of all the shows that have been [TS]

  mentioned the only show that hasn't come [TS]

  up that I want to throw I want to throw [TS]

  a little love is the what seventh and [TS]

  presumably six no six then presumably [TS]

  final season of community which which [TS]

  school doubt on yahoo screen vibes like [TS]

  watching and you know what [TS]

  probably not their best season but maybe [TS]

  their second-best season [TS]

  way better than the last couple years [TS]

  some really good stuff i was surprised I [TS]

  was just worried that it was going to be [TS]

  not that interesting and it actually [TS]

  ended up being really quite good so if [TS]

  you are a community fan and you haven't [TS]

  sorted out on yahoo screen you should [TS]

  because it was good and then everything [TS]

  else I've got is just to agree with the [TS]

  praise for Brooklyn nine-nine and Parks [TS]

  and Rec finale Jane the Virgin really [TS]

  good and then we talked about all a [TS]

  couple episodes ago about all the [TS]

  superhero shows that were that that are [TS]

  good especially the flash so you should [TS]

  check those out to more positive and [TS]

  tell you about something that's not a [TS]

  sponsor you all may know I left my long [TS]

  time job or late last year and one of [TS]

  the ways i am working and support my [TS]

  family as an independent person is i'm [TS]

  writing stuff I've my own website and [TS]

  i'm also doing a bunch of different [TS]

  podcasts including of course the [TS]

  incomparable now the way I make money [TS]

  from the incomparable is through [TS]

  advertising and I also get to do some [TS]

  nice things at the end of the year for [TS]

  my panelists by bringing in money for [TS]

  the uncomfortable and one of the ways [TS]

  that we can sell good ads that actually [TS]

  irrelevant to you is by doing a [TS]

  demographic survey which we do a couple [TS]

  of times a year using the ad network [TS]

  that we use to sell ads on the [TS]

  uncomfortable and its survey time so if [TS]

  you could drop into the survey it would [TS]

  help us out a lot [TS]

  your pod survey dot-com / smell that's [TS]

  pod survey p.o.d su are ve y dot com / [TS]

  smell my last name take about five [TS]

  minutes it's completely anonymous [TS]

  the aggregate all the data and the whole [TS]

  idea is just to provide good demographic [TS]

  data so that we can find advertisers [TS]

  that are matched to the uncomfortable [TS]

  and you guys are awesome [TS]

  so the more information we've got the [TS]

  more advertisers can say oh those guys i [TS]

  want to reach those guys and that help [TS]

  support me and the show and when you [TS]

  finish the the survey you actually get [TS]

  entered in a monthly drawing to win a [TS]

  hundred-dollar amazon gift card so [TS]

  that's a little bonus anyway pod survey [TS]

  dot-com / smell [TS]

  thank you for helping me and the [TS]

  incomparable find the best advertiser's [TS]

  keep the show coming to you regularly [TS]

  for free supporting the network as a [TS]

  whole i really appreciated thank you [TS]

  very much for listening [TS]

  and thanks in advance for filling out [TS]

  the surfing well let's move on now and [TS]

  I'm gonna fire out the spoiler horn [TS]

  we're going to be talking about [TS]

  everything that happened in season 5 of [TS]

  Game of Thrones so here comes the [TS]

  spoiler horn [TS]

  who yep wow that's just better in person [TS]

  it's a spectacular longer it seems long [TS]

  it always seems longer than any other [TS]

  sure you it's always the same always the [TS]

  same length so season 5 of game with [TS]

  resin Brian and I have talked about it a [TS]

  lot but but i have not talked about it [TS]

  on on this podcast with Brian this is [TS]

  true so where we could just do that now [TS]

  but I wanted to get the take of the [TS]

  people who haven't done many many [TS]

  podcast about Game of Thrones this year [TS]

  first so John and Erica and Dan GA you [TS]

  would any of you like to talk about sort [TS]

  of the the whole game thrones season as [TS]

  a whole are already told John does his [TS]

  opening statement as you have that was [TS]

  just gonna say don't think Johnny ok [TS]

  let's start [TS]

  ok everybody first John I hope John has [TS]

  something to say i love the net but [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  yeah I have a little bit so I've never [TS]

  read the books i am the non book reader [TS]

  in our game of thrones group here right [TS]

  I and in the beginning I enjoyed that [TS]

  because i didn't have the burden of [TS]

  comparing it to the books i could just [TS]

  enjoy it as a television show I didn't [TS]

  care whether it was or was not following [TS]

  the books this season based on my vague [TS]

  awareness of the relation to the books [TS]

  that I get through seeing people's [TS]

  grumpy tweets about the show my [TS]

  impression is that we have you there [TS]

  caught up to the books or are starting [TS]

  to deviate from the books or both and [TS]

  even though i don't know or care [TS]

  anything about the books i find that add [TS]

  some kind of excitement to the show that [TS]

  and then don't know i guess you can tell [TS]

  me if I'm wrong but like that the show [TS]

  is that they were like caught up to real [TS]

  time are closed and the show is sort of [TS]

  doing its own thing and doesn't care [TS]

  about the books and it seems more [TS]

  exciting to me even though i don't know [TS]

  what happens in the books i guess maybe [TS]

  it's exciting to me because now the [TS]

  possibility of spoilers is mostly [TS]

  removed but i like the idea of not [TS]

  knowing what's going to come next and [TS]

  knowing that no one knows what's to come [TS]

  next and that sort of feeling permeated [TS]

  the season for me and it is entirely [TS]

  false ceiling a feeling i guess you can [TS]

  tell me now and I'll be else going to [TS]

  let me tell you are exactly right it [TS]

  looked as the season went along like [TS]

  they were just diverging entirely for [TS]

  what's happening the books and it turns [TS]

  out that's not what they were doing in [TS]

  the last episode what what I discovered [TS]

  as a reader [TS]

  of these books is the divergence [TS]

  throughout the year was basically [TS]

  editing to streamline the story so that [TS]

  they could land essentially every [TS]

  character in the last episode at the [TS]

  point where they are within a chapter of [TS]

  of where they are at the end of the of [TS]

  the most recently released book i would [TS]

  say with one it with one major exception [TS]

  I feel like which was hard home which I [TS]

  felt like was actually something that [TS]

  male-male well there's things that may [TS]

  happen yet in future books to be [TS]

  released [TS]

  right exactly what all the characters [TS]

  end up landing like exactly again and we [TS]

  blow the spoiler here John get stabbed [TS]

  by the members of the Nights Watch at [TS]

  the end of that book that's his [TS]

  cliffhanger searcy does the walk of [TS]

  shame naked through the streets and a [TS]

  and that that happens at the end of the [TS]

  the most recently released book except [TS]

  the area or areas thing happens earlier [TS]

  the blindness are you it's her [TS]

  cliffhanger from the previous book and [TS]

  yet a lot of the story that happens [TS]

  after it in the inn is sort of stuff [TS]

  that they kind of pushed forward so they [TS]

  move some stuff around there but I don't [TS]

  think Tyrion was did he make it to Marie [TS]

  Tyrians past again that's a case where [TS]

  he had his story is actually gone past [TS]

  the end of the book so well at this [TS]

  point the whole show is either at the [TS]

  end i would say with maybe you could [TS]

  argue about already a little bit but but [TS]

  even there I feel like she's she's so [TS]

  close that essentially the show is often [TS]

  is off the map for book readers now it's [TS]

  either at the point where the book ended [TS]

  or its past the point where the book and [TS]

  we ok so we're all just I have no idea i [TS]

  get time I got wildly significant right [TS]

  now it's so good it's a wonder together [TS]

  whether or not John snow is really dead [TS]

  yeah what about bran and Rickon what [TS]

  about and hold on that was last season [TS]

  like that and that has bad they already [TS]

  jumped ahead in that whenever he's in [TS]

  their story last seasoning it was [TS]

  literally their material from Dance with [TS]

  Dragons the most recent book so they had [TS]

  dad nothing to do so they just took them [TS]

  off the stage for this season I think [TS]

  that a couple of episodes they they [TS]

  showed them like in the previously on [TS]

  like are they gonna talk I've totally [TS]

  expected them to come back at the end of [TS]

  hannahs the season [TS]

  but i guess they just had nothing more [TS]

  to say about them and they were just [TS]

  reminding you that they existed in the [TS]

  previously i wanted to see now that the [TS]

  gods would it a at Winterfell where [TS]

  we're like beyond or science was out of [TS]

  the trees and like the trees eyes open [TS]

  it's like Who I you see you and it turns [TS]

  out the better [TS]

  that's a that's a brand from inside the [TS]

  little his lake street people cave i can [TS]

  come and save John right or I'll be [TS]

  saved by the red lady what's her name [TS]

  was on the Stanford she's that requires [TS]

  a running that's already moved so that's [TS]

  interesting because i was reading about [TS]

  it and then they were like i was reading [TS]

  recaps they reminded me that that [TS]

  Melisandre and earlier met beric [TS]

  Dondarrion who is also returned from the [TS]

  dead a bunch of times which I totally [TS]

  forgotten what I yeah that's like the [TS]

  most seasoned CEO she meets to throw [TS]

  some mirin beric Dondarrion and [TS]

  yesterday when we watch that scene at [TS]

  the ready hard has resurrected other [TS]

  people before and she also has an [TS]

  interesting interchange with Aria where [TS]

  she's like you're basically going to [TS]

  murder a lot of people surprise and i'll [TS]

  see you again at some point so that's [TS]

  still kinda hang in there on the other [TS]

  hand like so i should resurrect him but [TS]

  on the other hand dunno she just loves [TS]

  that Kings blood and there's a whole [TS]

  bunch of that there is gonna get a jar [TS]

  Kings bastard blood but still she's been [TS]

  known to eat some of that out from time [TS]

  to time like yes you should run over [TS]

  that resurrected just collect the blood [TS]

  resurrect to collect the blood I don't [TS]

  know as a fellow healthy supply of it [TS]

  now with the wall so just grab that a [TS]

  lot of blood [TS]

  it's two months running off into the [TS]

  snow i think yeah Erica what did you [TS]

  think of this season as a whole [TS]

  well I'm I'm kind of in between i'm not [TS]

  actually a book reader although i tried [TS]

  when I heard they were creating a show [TS]

  of it i read i started reading books and [TS]

  I just didn't like them slide thru the [TS]

  first book and most of the second one [TS]

  and eventually i just gave up because it [TS]

  was while it was the great world [TS]

  building and stuff i just didn't really [TS]

  like any of the characters all that much [TS]

  and it's just one bad thing after [TS]

  another after another so it just it made [TS]

  me feel not good so I quit reading it [TS]

  but i thought i'd give the show a try [TS]

  and there's just something about [TS]

  watching actors breathe life into these [TS]

  characters that made me enjoy it so much [TS]

  more than the experience of reading the [TS]

  books so i have i have stuck with a show [TS]

  and enjoyed it [TS]

  however as we have gotten through this [TS]

  season it seems like that kind of sloggi [TS]

  feeling from [TS]

  i'm reading the books is rearing its [TS]

  ugly head again a little bit because yes [TS]

  there were some characters that I like [TS]

  but many of them have died or made [TS]

  choices that I just have to shake my [TS]

  head at or just such horrible things are [TS]

  happening to them that it has become [TS]

  less fun for me to watch so i mean i'm [TS]

  not i'm not giving up on the show but i [TS]

  am a i'm enjoying it a little bit less [TS]

  than i was before i agree i feel like [TS]

  it's the worst of both worlds in that [TS]

  horrible things are happening to these [TS]

  characters and you should feel for them [TS]

  but at this point where five seasons in [TS]

  there almost archetypes we exactly know [TS]

  what people are going to be doing and [TS]

  why they're gonna be doing it it's very [TS]

  rare that motives change like that so [TS]

  there's kind of their doing stuff and [TS]

  we're along with them and it gets so [TS]

  bleak and so depressing that's [TS]

  impossible watch the bleakness I [TS]

  understand because I mean this is the [TS]

  this is the middle of the story this is [TS]

  the second act [TS]

  they're about to get the that the [TS]

  producers have said they want to finish [TS]

  in two more seasons so you know this is [TS]

  the dark this is the dark part that [TS]

  least the empire strikes back is this is [TS]

  this is it and and I is set at several [TS]

  points this season it you know i'm [TS]

  willing to go to these dark places with [TS]

  them but they're sure as hell better be [TS]

  an upswing at some point you know [TS]

  because because why are we watching it [TS]

  all it is is just everything's terrible [TS]

  when everybody dies in the the White [TS]

  Walkers kill everybody the end is right [TS]

  at the end of the White Walkers so [TS]

  everybody raise them all from the dead [TS]

  and we just start all over again is it [TS]

  and then it's a sitcom with white [TS]

  walkers it becomes a comedy because all [TS]

  the humans are laughing and it's the [TS]

  White Walkers I got something to do all [TS]

  day then just you know it's a [TS]

  second-deck that the other thing that [TS]

  that has sort of turned me off a little [TS]

  bit is you know there are definitely [TS]

  issues with the treatment of women [TS]

  throughout the throughout the show and [TS]

  you know some of its just a really [TS]

  obvious stuff that you know i'm not a [TS]

  fan of rape scenes never have been never [TS]

  will be but the thing that actually i [TS]

  think that that made me swear out loud [TS]

  at the television was the the battle [TS]

  scene with the White Walkers which I [TS]

  wanted to enjoy because it was really [TS]

  cool but they had the I don't remember [TS]

  what her name was but the the woman who [TS]

  was the elder of the wildly rise and I [TS]

  was really excited at first because you [TS]

  know he's like ok gather the elders and [TS]

  we needed to go talk about this [TS]

  and I thought it was a really cool sort [TS]

  of cultural thing that the elders were [TS]

  not actually old people with your [TS]

  wildling it'sit's the elders are the [TS]

  people who are the the wisest and the [TS]

  people who are going to be able to leave [TS]

  the best and i thought that was really [TS]

  neat things like oh hey cool there's a [TS]

  chick she's leading that's awesome [TS]

  and then and then so then and then they [TS]

  totally they just give me turn her [TS]

  around to her motivations are completely [TS]

  gendered and she's you know I have no [TS]

  problem with maternal instincts i do [TS]

  have a problem with the character who is [TS]

  supposed to be this strong Wilding [TS]

  character who has survived in the north [TS]

  north of the wall this time who suddenly [TS]

  can't kill a bunch of skeletons simply [TS]

  because they are small and look [TS]

  something like children yeah I was so [TS]

  upset I almost didn't watch the next [TS]

  episode if they were really cream you [TS]

  have maternal instinct would have made [TS]

  her kill them even more because she [TS]

  needs to stay alive for her kids who she [TS]

  just put on the boat that's the maternal [TS]

  instinct is do whatever you can to stay [TS]

  alive because your kids need you so the [TS]

  advantages that doesn't with some really [TS]

  was super lazy and on the other side of [TS]

  the maternal instinct when I when what's [TS]

  your name [TS]

  Stannis's wife who has been very cold [TS]

  towards the daughter for the entire [TS]

  series so the daughter meets an untimely [TS]

  end and they have the woman you know so [TS]

  there's two ways this could have gone [TS]

  you know she stays on filling the whole [TS]

  time and that's in character for her [TS]

  because she's been like that all time [TS]

  she's a horrible person or she realizes [TS]

  her mistake and I fully once they showed [TS]

  that she was like oh I you know you [TS]

  can't do this to my child I fully [TS]

  expected her to jump onto the fire and [TS]

  died with her as well and they didn't do [TS]

  that they just kind of had a sort of [TS]

  ineffectually be like vaguely regret [TS]

  this [TS]

  oh I right now i will say on the flip [TS]

  side of that one of the one of the [TS]

  things that i liked about the fallout [TS]

  from that decision was that you know we [TS]

  were watching the I think that we were [TS]

  watching that scene [TS]

  Jason and David and we were all like wow [TS]

  like who keeps following the dude who [TS]

  just like sacrifice his own daughter and [TS]

  sure enough like everybody was like yeah [TS]

  all right we're out there go two ways on [TS]

  that but like you know that's the type [TS]

  of thing you have people would leave and [TS]

  the other half would be like this guy [TS]

  serious like this thing I've used if you [TS]

  believe in the silly Matt you know like [TS]

  you believe in like the magic and the [TS]

  whole thing like or you later okay if [TS]

  this guy burns his daughter death what [TS]

  you gonna do to me right are not not [TS]

  that you [TS]

  get out of fear but you really believe [TS]

  that because effectively speaking he did [TS]

  have she did have the big black thing [TS]

  that killed readily right so it's not [TS]

  like it's like you're believing this [TS]

  with no reason but mostly people don't [TS]

  know about that [TS]

  well I know but he was victorious over [TS]

  Emily because of this magic he's telling [TS]

  you we need to do this for the magic [TS]

  reason half the people like I'm out [TS]

  whatever and around the other half are [TS]

  like this guy's really gonna be king you [TS]

  see how hardcore he is [TS]

  turns out not so much but you know like [TS]

  it is a reasonable belief belief for the [TS]

  people who are following him that you're [TS]

  showing what a monster you are and that [TS]

  would make a certain kind of person [TS]

  really believe that the same thing [TS]

  standing waves it's his destiny and blah [TS]

  blah but i I just I like there were [TS]

  consequences from it is i guess my point [TS]

  is like that there were a lot of people [TS]

  because especially during that scene [TS]

  when they do the the simulation seen [TS]

  there there are lots of people kind of [TS]

  looking at it you know they should cut [TS]

  back to the soldiers who are looking [TS]

  very uncomfortable for the most part and [TS]

  so you know not they could have just [TS]

  like all right great we burned her now [TS]

  we've got the Lord light on her side now [TS]

  we will you know rides victory and [TS]

  instead it turned out that totally [TS]

  backfired and I think that's it's [TS]

  Stannis has been really really you know [TS]

  he's lauded as this great tactician and [TS]

  military commander and this is a major [TS]

  misstep for him and you know to the [TS]

  point that it appears to lead to his [TS]

  demise [TS]

  so i think it's it's interesting that [TS]

  you know the sort of fall back on [TS]

  you know the religious themes for him [TS]

  end up not really working out his [TS]

  favorite not only did he lose his entire [TS]

  family loses battle he loses his army [TS]

  and possibly lose his life possibly why [TS]

  you think they left that open because it [TS]

  seemed pretty shot domain if they could [TS]

  shoot they enjoy it and they showing off [TS]

  a lot of beheading demonstrate how did [TS]

  they didn't show the daughter burning [TS]

  either with a rare moment of tastes like [TS]

  we wanted to focus on the reactions of [TS]

  the people there and I think then that [TS]

  in the status i agree with you it seems [TS]

  very likely that brand new skills status [TS]

  which is also a departure from the book [TS]

  i believe but I i am not i would not be [TS]

  surprised to find out that she has [TS]

  spared him for some reason like I could [TS]

  see a rationale for it [TS]

  the show has burned that character [TS]

  basically because the character had an [TS]

  artist and is completed the arc [TS]

  the audience hates him forever with good [TS]

  reason he has no more friends he has no [TS]

  more army his role in the storytelling [TS]

  like now he's basically in the reek role [TS]

  even Rican have some Redemption I [TS]

  suppose but like yeah nobody nobody [TS]

  likes tennis anymore [TS]

  I think that's pretty conclusive when [TS]

  you burn your daughter he have to do [TS]

  with the steak though he spent his but [TS]

  the season trying to not trying to avoid [TS]

  it and in the end he had you know he did [TS]

  he did it and he any anything [TS]

  specifically we have for him is gone and [TS]

  like he has a tragic character and like [TS]

  I said he gave in to the red woman early [TS]

  on and it paid off like it work exactly [TS]

  like she said it was super powerful [TS]

  magic is real big black scary thing [TS]

  kills Renly like he was he was very [TS]

  uncertain into being like I don't know [TS]

  about this Lord light stuff and she's [TS]

  whispering in his ear and i'm not sure [TS]

  and blah blah it's like all right go [TS]

  with it and it's like holy crap that [TS]

  work like this you know he still [TS]

  cautious about it was like this is this [TS]

  is real stuff she's not just blowing [TS]

  smoke right and then he made the same [TS]

  decision reluctantly in this season and [TS]

  it didn't work out [TS]

  I'm not going to say that i have known [TS]

  what was coming having not read all of [TS]

  the books so I I've been surprised a [TS]

  bunch of times by the show but i think [TS]

  that this was the most surprising of all [TS]

  of the plot twist because i really [TS]

  really didn't expect expect statuses [TS]

  downfall in this manner so I was kind of [TS]

  like oh boy it was that was fun to watch [TS]

  because if you go back to the red [TS]

  wedding or even the purple wedding [TS]

  Joffrey's death scene [TS]

  you really don't like you expect it [TS]

  because he spends so much time there you [TS]

  know something's going to happen it's [TS]

  rarely spend so much time in one [TS]

  location during one episode but for [TS]

  John's death we get literally what two [TS]

  minutes at the very end of the final [TS]

  episode of the season and it just [TS]

  happens and were left there with John [TS]

  dead and we don't know what to think but [TS]

  we don't know if he's dead and that was [TS]

  so Telegraph like this whole sales in [TS]

  our life John is dead meat like you know [TS]

  everything he does this season I'm [TS]

  surprised he didn't die early like [TS]

  everything he does is he is trying to [TS]

  find some kind of middle way but all of [TS]

  his allies just fade away and everyone [TS]

  else who hates him gets closer and [TS]

  closer and closer John is making big [TS]

  picture decisions that are the right [TS]

  ones button all the details of the [TS]

  personal relationships and everything he [TS]

  is getting you know hehe [TS]

  he is a painting himself in a corner and [TS]

  it's in it is inevitable that this is [TS]

  gonna happen to him [TS]

  I did not expect it all I was really [TS]

  expecting after the white Walker rampage [TS]

  and all that was really thinking that he [TS]

  would have in the back he would survive [TS]

  until the very end because he can come [TS]

  back and say this is what's gonna happen [TS]

  it is really bad we need need to pair up [TS]

  with wildlings and take care of this [TS]

  I was expecting that but that's what I [TS]

  had Ollie they're like the office the [TS]

  second only knocks on the door surely it [TS]

  occurred to you that was a bit but I [TS]

  like they I don't know if he's a [TS]

  character in the book but having him be [TS]

  like hey but what these specific [TS]

  wildlings came to my village and killed [TS]

  my parents in front of me [TS]

  he's never gonna come around like you [TS]

  know what I think you're right John we [TS]

  should team up with new never gonna [TS]

  happen right and he isn't proxy for all [TS]

  these other nights while he tried to do [TS]

  like the political thing of putting his [TS]

  uh his competitor for the election in [TS]

  charge and giving your position and [TS]

  doing like it's just it's just [TS]

  inevitable like everybody just left him [TS]

  or died or left him and he is just there [TS]

  with all the people who hate him and [TS]

  like it's like that night like all right [TS]

  everyone's gone nuts that were telling [TS]

  him i'm only going to be one by one vote [TS]

  right and that guy died and then and now [TS]

  he's and then he sets out to to bring [TS]

  the wildlings in which everybody hates [TS]

  Andy and even though he's good reasons [TS]

  they become I feel like that's the [TS]

  overarching story of Game of Thrones in [TS]

  a way is that there's a clear threat to [TS]

  all humanity [TS]

  it's coming but humanity cannot look up [TS]

  to the horizon and see it because [TS]

  they're too busy fighting amongst [TS]

  themselves and that's the whole story i [TS]

  really liked it as I think the AV club's [TS]

  review of this episode point out that we [TS]

  get trolled by the previously on we edge [TS]

  which brings up engine starting over way [TS]

  back for season but I saw that I [TS]

  couldn't understand why they were [TS]

  showing that preview but it again soon [TS]

  as I knocked the doors like don't go [TS]

  John [TS]

  ya know you always coming from you knew [TS]

  that would be like sucked up and AC in [TS]

  the book is only on the biology LOL [TS]

  doesn't exist as a character in the book [TS]

  I don't quite understand why John [TS]

  doesn't see it as he knows people are [TS]

  against them eat right like i said [TS]

  trying to you know I'm gonna put this [TS]

  guy in charge even though he was against [TS]

  me in elections [TS]

  got to get on his good side and the [TS]

  attention like is even open the gate and [TS]

  let me in turns out he's going to you [TS]

  know he's just hanging out and worrying [TS]

  about things he should have been much [TS]

  more on guard or just bailed and run [TS]

  away or something like he had many other [TS]

  outs but and I think you're saying Jason [TS]

  like that he is making big the correct [TS]

  big picture decisions i think a lot of [TS]

  his doubt i believe a lot of his doubt [TS]

  that like is he making the correct big [TS]

  picture decisions like maybe you know [TS]

  the whole Wild Things is a fantasy [TS]

  because I talked about his army of White [TS]

  Walkers as thousands upon thousands upon [TS]

  thousands of what have the wild things [TS]

  are going to help you there you is nice [TS]

  that you gave them shelter and let them [TS]

  through the wall it's a nice humane [TS]

  thing to do but that's not going to say [TS]

  well it means that they're not in the [TS]

  army because when you're fighting the [TS]

  army of the Dead anybody leave behind [TS]

  becomes part of the army i know but like [TS]

  the army of the Dead sounds like it's so [TS]

  massively bigger than any other army [TS]

  they have any way and that's all these [TS]

  are the two overarching things I see in [TS]

  the show is that winter is coming and [TS]

  those dudes took a real long time to [TS]

  walk down from the snow or finally [TS]

  making some progress and the other thing [TS]

  is Daenerys I feel like she's like the [TS]

  main character in the show like she's [TS]

  trying to return to the throne to rule [TS]

  place and meanwhile that places is is [TS]

  threatened by the White Walkers which [TS]

  apparently the White Walkers don't hang [TS]

  out on the other side of the world i [TS]

  don't know i can't tell example to [TS]

  hostile land the land only extends north [TS]

  in Westeros there so let's talk about [TS]

  generic a little bit I felt like I felt [TS]

  like her story was a lot of the [TS]

  especially the first part of the season [TS]

  a lot of rerun from previous seasons [TS]

  where I felt like she was just kind of [TS]

  on hold books feel like to be well yeah [TS]

  I know there's a lot of time in the [TS]

  books like oh it's the it's the [TS]

  governing like this is boring is where [TS]

  should really have added governing and [TS]

  she's not a quick study just weird [TS]

  genius bar thing where people come to [TS]

  her and ask her for help directly it's [TS]

  like she needs something more than that [TS]

  but we've mixed in a whole bunch of [TS]

  different characters there because now [TS]

  we have Jorah Mormont back in the [TS]

  picture we have grey worm we have miss [TS]

  andy we have Tyrion we now have Ferris [TS]

  as of the end of the episode who I [TS]

  thought for a minute i had a brief [TS]

  minute where I'm like is various a like [TS]

  is Tyrion imagining veras here generally [TS]

  up and about [TS]

  been very kind of like you can like [TS]

  we're gonna get that cut back and it [TS]

  turns out he's just talking to himself [TS]

  like I have thought that was how that [TS]

  was gonna go they'll replay all the [TS]

  scene the various presenting you realize [TS]

  he was never there and no one else ever [TS]

  talk to him except for Tyrion no that's [TS]

  not true but it wasn't excited about [TS]

  this as a season finale is because for [TS]

  the rest of the time until the next [TS]

  season comes along in my head I could [TS]

  just pretend that the next season is [TS]

  going to be 10 episodes of various [TS]

  interior just chatting because I would [TS]

  be completely happy with that it is [TS]

  pretty great [TS]

  I I mean Tyrion so here's here's [TS]

  actually i think that one of the most [TS]

  important things that happened this [TS]

  season and the show is they put [TS]

  characters together they cross they [TS]

  crossed over the storylines scenarios [TS]

  has been operating in a vacuum other [TS]

  than I like barest and showed up and [TS]

  after leaving King's Landing but this [TS]

  year we get Tyrion interacting with [TS]

  generis the story is starting to [TS]

  converge at last because honestly [TS]

  Denarius story has been almost entirely [TS]

  in a vacuum this whole time so it was [TS]

  nice to see that finally kind of come [TS]

  together where we got to see we got to [TS]

  see her interacting with Tyrion that was [TS]

  just so there's some beautiful scenes [TS]

  there [TS]

  yeah I think I think i'ii I've never [TS]

  been a big fan of genera storyline in [TS]

  most of the books and so it because it's [TS]

  so isolated [TS]

  you know I'd always be I would get to [TS]

  those chapters and be like oh man let's [TS]

  go back to like what's happening with [TS]

  the politics in this other place like [TS]

  why am i carrying about this city you [TS]

  know halfway across the world where it [TS]

  doesn't seem to have any impact on like [TS]

  the rest of these characters and so it's [TS]

  nice that they have jumped to a point [TS]

  now where this is there tying up those [TS]

  in those knots and saying like all right [TS]

  this is this is going to have an impact [TS]

  on sort of our main overarching story [TS]

  here rather than being isolated its own [TS]

  little pocket across the sea so and and [TS]

  you know those are it's nice to see [TS]

  Tyrion doing something other than being [TS]

  locked in a box always a plus although i [TS]

  do enjoy all his scenes with Jorah this [TS]

  season we're in a boat he talks a lot [TS]

  great because you put Tyrion together [TS]

  with anybody and I'm a happy camper [TS]

  it's winter material in a boat show [TS]

  could be a show [TS]

  he's in a box for a while then he's in a [TS]

  boat many doctors boat is not [TS]

  great boat to be on i would think he's [TS]

  so competent as a night why is he such a [TS]

  bad boat driver person takes things [TS]

  right is terrible boats he's not great [TS]

  at both John you put all those points in [TS]

  nineteen didn't put any point in having [TS]

  that's right on the other character who [TS]

  took a misstep the season with Cersei [TS]

  has been so cutthroat into so savvy why [TS]

  in the world would she cc'd power like [TS]

  she had her son essentially in the palm [TS]

  of her hand made sure that she maintain [TS]

  that position with her son by you know [TS]

  dealing with the wife situation there [TS]

  why in the world would she risk it all [TS]

  to bring in these religious guys and [TS]

  basically give them power over the the [TS]

  King Power over the throne i see i don't [TS]

  agree with that because I think it's a [TS]

  misstep like I think it's not it's not [TS]

  her giving up power she's not realizing [TS]

  what she's so savvy she doesn't realize [TS]

  that but but she's taking a risk because [TS]

  she's been marginalized right she's been [TS]

  she's she's been pushed aside she's the [TS]

  she's not the Queen anymore she's [TS]

  essentially between mother and a small [TS]

  council she's tried to form it in her [TS]

  fashion but incomes uncle Kevan [TS]

  Lannister and he's going to do things [TS]

  his way and and when she she's playing a [TS]

  game by thinking that she can manipulate [TS]

  the highest that the sparrows and use [TS]

  that to her advantage because she's [TS]

  feeling weak at that moment but [TS]

  interview their feelings into account [TS]

  yeah yeah but like but the thing is that [TS]

  she could get rid she could get rid of [TS]

  the wife or marginalized the wife [TS]

  without like the whole play is how can [TS]

  you make the King do anything you need [TS]

  to set up a situation where the Queen [TS]

  someone can tell the Queen what to do [TS]

  someone can condemn the Queen for [TS]

  something or whatever so by setting that [TS]

  up you have to create something that is [TS]

  more powerful than the king and the [TS]

  Queen and that thing is by definition a [TS]

  threat to you whether you can control it [TS]

  or not whether the high Sparrow is is [TS]

  noble has good intentions to describe [TS]

  doesn't matter like it's not a sir see [TS]

  movie feel like she would never do that [TS]

  she would find some other way even if [TS]

  it's like poison lipstick if you want to [TS]

  go that far [TS]

  like there are so many other there's so [TS]

  many ways to get rid of troublesome life [TS]

  to that that's gonna be a great quote [TS]

  out of context for John will use that [TS]

  crisscross crisscross I think Marjorie [TS]

  and and Elena her and it right is uh I [TS]

  think they're just too [TS]

  they're there to devious that they're [TS]

  not gonna they're playing the game hard [TS]

  and it's a and and I do feel like [TS]

  services backed in a corner and that's [TS]

  why she makes what turns out to be a [TS]

  terrible decision she was bringing the [TS]

  religious fundamentalists yay [TS]

  what game if they're not related [TS]

  fundamentals is like the did she willing [TS]

  the throne willingly ceded power to the [TS]

  religiously like my impression is that [TS]

  the religious people have existed in [TS]

  King's Landing for a long time but they [TS]

  were never in charge charge right they [TS]

  were they were pushovers right men and [TS]

  now that you did they are they rule the [TS]

  rule Westeros because if they're in [TS]

  charge of the King yeah but she does she [TS]

  doesn't put them and she doesn't put [TS]

  them in charge of the king though they [TS]

  take that because there's an upside we [TS]

  were seeing what's fascinating about all [TS]

  of that is that there's essentially a [TS]

  revolution happening like it's a slow [TS]

  revolution and end the the people in [TS]

  like seriously who are in this the kind [TS]

  of Royal position are are missing the [TS]

  fact that this revolution is going on [TS]

  she miss Reed's it so you know I I'm [TS]

  with dan on this i think i think this is [TS]

  her ass acting desperately thinking that [TS]

  she's going to be able to control the [TS]

  whole situation not understanding the [TS]

  backing of the people and the plant the [TS]

  the savviness of the high Sparrow and [TS]

  run it very rapidly runs out of her [TS]

  control [TS]

  I can see that but it i think i'm a [TS]

  little bit more with John this one just [TS]

  because it [TS]

  I feel like again not having read the [TS]

  books with much of her but I certainly [TS]

  enjoyed watching her more when she was [TS]

  being smart and savvy and just you know [TS]

  she was cutting through all of the [TS]

  nonsense and getting what she wanted [TS]

  what would by whatever means are [TS]

  necessary and I understand they did an [TS]

  okay job of backing her into a corner so [TS]

  that she had to sort of take this risk [TS]

  but I just maybe it's just because I [TS]

  enjoy watching her less when she has [TS]

  been brought so low I mean that I don't [TS]

  like what she's doing what she's doing [TS]

  well but I enjoy watching it if that [TS]

  makes sense to so you could really tell [TS]

  it didn't ring quite as true as it could [TS]

  have [TS]

  because I felt like I admired her so [TS]

  much in the past that makes two [TS]

  boneheads and move [TS]

  just it it was kind of like a clang [TS]

  whoops I within the last two books [TS]

  there's a lot of boy seriously lost it [TS]

  right she's like lost your touch [TS]

  hmm well I feel like her touch came from [TS]

  a lot of controlling her family and [TS]

  Tommy such a lame duck that she can [TS]

  control him however she wants and if [TS]

  Marjorie wasn't there and I agree with [TS]

  you John that you know she puts this [TS]

  thing not necessarily above the king and [TS]

  queen but in a place where they can harm [TS]

  them and can be you know a force on them [TS]

  and it would it would make more sense if [TS]

  Tommy wasn't such a lame duck [TS]

  yeah and we'll and her father is gone [TS]

  and her brother is gone and her other [TS]

  brother is gone right she's got less [TS]

  because she's got less of those those [TS]

  those pieces around her on top of it i [TS]

  think it's interesting actually [TS]

  something Erika said i think is [TS]

  fascinating which is searcy what she [TS]

  does is bad you know i would argue but [TS]

  um but she she's been good at it and so [TS]

  to see her be bad at it is is strangely [TS]

  difficult because you're rooting against [TS]

  her but you kind of want her to fail on [TS]

  you know on her own terms and you want [TS]

  to get her comeuppance for being exactly [TS]

  did the wicked mother you don't want her [TS]

  to fall on her own sword or make a [TS]

  blender it's like oh that's unforced [TS]

  error right so her last scene where she [TS]

  is March naked through the streets and [TS]

  everybody spitting on her and cursing [TS]

  and honor as they go ding ding shame [TS]

  shame shame ding three shades in the [TS]

  ding that's how you do it [TS]

  the UH that is it's actually kind of [TS]

  painful to watch because you think to [TS]

  yourself I should be gleeful that so [TS]

  many bad things are happening too [TS]

  seriously Lannister and i'm not i was [TS]

  going hot bad and indifferent way I was [TS]

  believable because I said services gonna [TS]

  kill a lot of man she is gonna kill nuns [TS]

  like no one is killed them because [TS]

  here's the thing that was the whole [TS]

  question the season like she ever gonna [TS]

  get out of the dungeon is the highest [TS]

  power just pulling your chain of ever [TS]

  going to let her out like letting her [TS]

  out and having to that big walk like big [TS]

  mistake guys big mistake leaving whole [TS]

  enemy the whole people's uh you know the [TS]

  whole people's army thing or whatever [TS]

  like that's great and all like oh you [TS]

  know that the rich people up in there [TS]

  they religious people are appealing to [TS]

  the masses and you're all poor and we're [TS]

  poor too and we realized that we [TS]

  shouldn't be but they don't have an army [TS]

  yeah they got people with a little [TS]

  tattoo on their foreheads you came in [TS]

  like 10 of those guys Kings like but [TS]

  they have an army of people with swords [TS]

  and like their that you there is no [TS]

  uprising like there's a reason that the [TS]

  royalty has been in power for so long [TS]

  because the people as disheveled as they [TS]

  might be in like oh we need to rise up [TS]

  they don't have an army and those [TS]

  religious guys they do not have an army [TS]

  they don't have good fighters they don't [TS]

  have a lot of men they don't have [TS]

  equipment that i have supplies like they [TS]

  can't i'm assuming they will try to be a [TS]

  people's uprising but the people are [TS]

  going to lose at least they should so [TS]

  that's why it's even more ridiculous [TS]

  that your seating power to these people [TS]

  so they can like because you know make [TS]

  this populist uprising [TS]

  I mean it just seems like it even the [TS]

  French Revolution I think you had a [TS]

  little bit more of a fair fight no [TS]

  matter how angry the people in King's [TS]

  Landing get I feel like they are not [TS]

  going to make a dent in the actual [TS]

  standing army of the royal power which [TS]

  is why when Cersei gets better and [TS]

  freshens up a bit [TS]

  she's going to mark back into that thing [TS]

  and kill all those nights [TS]

  and kill all those nights [TS]

  yeah i think i think yeah she's not [TS]

  going to make the same mistake again [TS]

  right unless she's broken unless unless [TS]

  she's like a broken person because [TS]

  that's kind of the ARCA Jamie had like [TS]

  he had his particular attitude losing [TS]

  his hand really took him down a few pegs [TS]

  humanized him now I think he's a [TS]

  different character than he was and [TS]

  that's why I kind of disagree with the [TS]

  whole idea that like these archetypes [TS]

  and they're not changing anymore i think [TS]

  most of the characters do have arcs I [TS]

  think Daenerys is still kind of in the [TS]

  middle of her arc and Jamie and now is a [TS]

  different character than he was in his [TS]

  different character can start a new arc [TS]

  in a new endeavor that I hope it doesn't [TS]

  and I also liked all the Mediterranean [TS]

  people like the all the people from [TS]

  Dorne those characters even though they [TS]

  were only here for a short period of [TS]

  time I found them charismatic and [TS]

  appealing and I like Dorne and I like [TS]

  the culture clash and although this [TS]

  stuff so I was still enthralled by the [TS]

  season despite the many episodes that [TS]

  have a better better you know basically [TS]

  bombers yeah yeah we talked about Dorn I [TS]

  wish there was more like I really wish [TS]

  that the sand snakes have more to do [TS]

  especially because they're very first [TS]

  scene is such a big enthralling yes we [TS]

  are going to take down the Lannisters [TS]

  because we are here and we are going to [TS]

  declare everything like this and it's [TS]

  like I really wish that they had more to [TS]

  do besides kiss people and poison people [TS]

  with the kisses well in and print store [TS]

  into who also dr. Bashir when you're [TS]

  gonna share here and he doesn't he [TS]

  doesn't end up with that much do [TS]

  he's kind of ineffectual as a little [TS]

  like he clearly has some you know clout [TS]

  but he's also only barely keeping a hold [TS]

  of sort of the situation down there but [TS]

  he's making the right move like he's one [TS]

  of the I like to see a leader like as [TS]

  every leader like a bloodthirsty [TS]

  power-crazed maniac know this guy's like [TS]

  war sucks let's hang out any grapes guys [TS]

  chill [TS]

  yeah I feel like though if you're going [TS]

  to introduce this whole scene you need [TS]

  to do more with it because it feels like [TS]

  in the end I just felt like we spent a [TS]

  whole season and Doran and yet what we [TS]

  really had was sort of like we have the [TS]

  beach adventures of a bra on and Jamie [TS]

  and then.we had like that one fight and [TS]

  then they were in jail and then they [TS]

  went home [TS]

  oh but there was put poison and more [TS]

  solid I i like the voice I was saying [TS]

  because that that's like you know you [TS]

  thought in the previous episode that she [TS]

  had written by doing that she's assuming [TS]

  essentially like signing on [TS]

  that's more like which in the end she [TS]

  couldn't let you go like to try to get [TS]

  everyone all right because it's you know [TS]

  I don't they just didn't turn the boat [TS]

  around like they weren't that far away [TS]

  it's like that turn the second round [TS]

  we're gonna guess what remember thinking [TS]

  oh just not to do she just did kill her [TS]

  well I you know what it was that was [TS]

  worse Telegraph than the only thing for [TS]

  me it was just as soon as she lays the [TS]

  kids are like oh you had dated before [TS]

  the way energy when she kissed the ring [TS]

  in the previous episode like she can't [TS]

  she's not gonna let this go [TS]

  yea biden you yeah well it was nice that [TS]

  they was nice that that Jamie got some [TS]

  time to acknowledge his daughter that he [TS]

  was her dad even though she already knew [TS]

  I'd like two seconds before she does [TS]

  yeah yeah yeah I like poison is time to [TS]

  like dramatic dramatic revelation poison [TS]

  that it occurs right after a dramatic [TS]

  revelation [TS]

  yeah if you're in a place like it seems [TS]

  like all these Dornish women have poison [TS]

  and antidotes like if you're hanging out [TS]

  there like just wouldn't everyone have [TS]

  one of those little blue bottles and [TS]

  around the bag just in case it's like an [TS]

  EpiPen right-hand man at the border you [TS]

  know if you're allergic to poison have [TS]

  that around his little EpiPen just you [TS]

  after her meal just take it for the hell [TS]

  of it as a digest it could be sanding [TS]

  poison one last thing before we wrap up [TS]

  game of thrones which is I want to ask [TS]

  about the idea there are so many [TS]

  storylines in the show and there are [TS]

  moments that I felt like it just was [TS]

  struggled to keep the momentum going and [TS]

  adding door into the wheel just adds [TS]

  another thing you have to keep coming [TS]

  around to and although i think episode 8 [TS]

  was kind of spectacular in its in in [TS]

  that fight scene that last half hour so [TS]

  often we get these episodes where you're [TS]

  just cutting it's hard to get going [TS]

  because they remind you where we are and [TS]

  when we see a scene and then we're done [TS]

  and then the next episode like that [TS]

  spider-man comic strip [TS]

  no it'sit's very slowly what happened [TS]

  last week [TS]

  this is what happens this up yeah one [TS]

  time for one day so I I don't know if [TS]

  anybody else shares that but I feel like [TS]

  that the the show continues to struggle [TS]

  with that point which is that they're [TS]

  sort of too much going on in too many [TS]

  places and they seem to be trying to [TS]

  streamline it but it's still hard to get [TS]

  the story going and then all the sudden [TS]

  it's over [TS]

  well the show has always been about the [TS]

  dancing all these storylines forward [TS]

  forward forward forward climax and [TS]

  before it always felt like ok they're [TS]

  advancing the spot they're advancing [TS]

  this plot enough to keep you interested [TS]

  and in this season if you like they [TS]

  tried to do that but i ended up with [TS]

  trudging trudging trudging major episode [TS]

  where everything happens and we're all [TS]

  crying on Twitter [TS]

  that's how i felt the finale goes i [TS]

  actually enjoy the trudging maybe and [TS]

  maybe it's my classic Doctor Who you [TS]

  know where Craig coming up here but i [TS]

  like the slower pace i mean i can't [TS]

  remember which episode it was but it was [TS]

  the one where afterwards everybody was [TS]

  like nothing happened and I was like and [TS]

  it was my favorite one because i like [TS]

  just going into cycling through and [TS]

  seeing little things happen I you know [TS]

  the big stuff is fine but honestly I get [TS]

  bored by the fight scenes [TS]

  yeah that's true in my notes every week [TS]

  when we do these TV podcast it goes [TS]

  they fight and they're cool they're fun [TS]

  to watch but they fight that's it [TS]

  well some of these fights were important [TS]

  like the hard home one big now we just [TS]

  been complaining asking when they're [TS]

  going to the fireworks factory for so [TS]

  long it's like finally the White Walkers [TS]

  are here and there over running places [TS]

  with people not just one guy not just [TS]

  guys Susan wandering by a horse not you [TS]

  know but like an entire announce like [TS]

  was going you know yet they they [TS]

  that's what we've been waiting for the [TS]

  White Walkers and coming down they [TS]

  arrived and it is a payoff of all the [TS]

  all of the you know the boy who cried [TS]

  wolf like you know we jon snow saying [TS]

  just the walkers are coming [TS]

  we've seen them my friend killed one [TS]

  they're gonna get here we know winter is [TS]

  coming what are we arguing about stupid [TS]

  like you know we should all be together [TS]

  because that and we have a common enemy [TS]

  and like in the middle of the discussion [TS]

  of trying to figure out that it's like [TS]

  and they're here too late i've been [TS]

  trying to convince you this for like [TS]

  five seasons and you guys are not [TS]

  getting it up and see this is what I was [TS]

  telling you these guys right here see [TS]

  this now John imagine you would read [TS]

  five almost thousand-page book sometime [TS]

  it's still hadn't showed her and yet and [TS]

  yet I would happily try would happily [TS]

  trade all of the wall scenes from work [TS]

  stuff in Dorne like I know people get [TS]

  excited about the White Walkers but [TS]

  that's the part of the show that i just [TS]

  kind of like it goes back to the wall [TS]

  and I'm like okay I'll wait it out until [TS]

  until I have something more colorful or [TS]

  interesting or battery to watch zombies [TS]

  ok zombies fine i just really like that [TS]

  scene that I thought hard home as a set [TS]

  piece was fantastic just well shot well [TS]

  no great effect super-creepy really [TS]

  atmospheric the fog and then the silence [TS]

  and the fights with the white Walker [TS]

  because again having read so many books [TS]

  made like a hobby and the White Walkers [TS]

  like John so they just sort of work [TS]

  around the edges stealing things and [TS]

  killing people and you're like the only [TS]

  seem like a kind of a vague shadowy [TS]

  threat but they're really you know [TS]

  there's not a lot of substance to them [TS]

  and so to actually see them [TS]

  this is this is what you're dealing with [TS]

  was actually I thought that was a high [TS]

  point of the season for me because it [TS]

  did really bring home like this is this [TS]

  is a real threat it's not just this [TS]

  shadowy mysterious force coming from the [TS]

  north and to see you know I just I [TS]

  really I i had a jaw-dropping moment [TS]

  when when you know I think John's gonna [TS]

  get like stabbed or something i don't [TS]

  think he's gonna die at that point but [TS]

  like when the the Valyrian steel holds [TS]

  many shatters the guy I had a moment of [TS]

  that was pretty cool so I have to say I [TS]

  i was a and having read so you know [TS]

  spend so much time in the books and [TS]

  reading and watching the show and [TS]

  everything it was nice as we talk about [TS]

  up front to see something that wasn't in [TS]

  the books that I had no expectation of [TS]

  what was going to happen so I also love [TS]

  political intrigue and I agree that [TS]

  there were parts of the season that felt [TS]

  a little bit shorter on that but I i [TS]

  will call out hard home as I think just [TS]

  a just a fantastic set piece I thought [TS]

  he could have died there I was fully [TS]

  expecting like this could be it for John [TS]

  because this would be a fitting end up [TS]

  like him going up another another [TS]

  foolish mission like I'm gonna go [TS]

  convince these guys like I'm gonna go [TS]

  with them i'm going to leave the Nights [TS]

  Watch to like you know planning my [TS]

  murder back by themselves [TS]

  I'm gonna go and talk to these guys are [TS]

  gonna try to convince them and then the [TS]

  middle of me trying to convince me to [TS]

  get a chance to these guys come and like [TS]

  this could be the end for him and they [TS]

  did the nice thing where they're slowly [TS]

  revealing the parameters of of the white [TS]

  Walker enemy oh so the dragonglass that [TS]

  does something right so we had that [TS]

  dream action we we talk what's his name [TS]

  was definitely going to be dead and he [TS]

  save himself with that same and then we [TS]

  see the White Walkers killing a bunch of [TS]

  other people but they didn't they tell [TS]

  about this i should never watch the [TS]

  scenes they showed the scene where he [TS]

  has a sort of player in steel so I kind [TS]

  of saw that coming because it's like why [TS]

  are you mentioning that sword again and [TS]

  how it's made me who has that sort of [TS]

  but but it's exciting to see you know [TS]

  because the characters in the show don't [TS]

  know what the parameters of the enemy [TS]

  are either what how can they be defeated [TS]

  what works get them was that's why they [TS]

  were excited about the dress [TS]

  I was like this worked once and then [TS]

  John smells like hey there's another [TS]

  thing work once but how many of the [TS]

  stores are there not enough like you [TS]

  know but but at least they're still [TS]

  figuring stuff out [TS]

  I didn't for a moment think that Jon [TS]

  Snow was gonna die with all the the [TS]

  White Walkers because that would have [TS]

  been like sort of a noble death with him [TS]

  trying his best and i have come to [TS]

  expect it everybody's going to die in [TS]

  the most horrible awful gut-wrenching [TS]

  way possible to whom it was noble what [TS]

  he did he didn't even fight back he was [TS]

  like my friends they don't like me no i [TS]

  don't i don't think that's Noble [TS]

  well you know it's not but it's noble [TS]

  not to fight back its noble not to flee [TS]

  you know it's as good watching as the [TS]

  red wedding because it's these [TS]

  characters we love we've had for years [TS]

  and then there there and there i [TS]

  disagree i feel like they should've he [TS]

  could have fought back and the scene [TS]

  would have been much more different if [TS]

  he had fought back fall back fall back [TS]

  and then died after maybe five minutes [TS]

  or so and it's almost like the red [TS]

  wedding because they're there they're [TS]

  hanging out having a good time and then [TS]

  suddenly like completely playing dirty [TS]

  they just stab them and it's so [TS]

  upsetting in that way [TS]

  mainly because you know a character you [TS]

  love deserves a much better death but he [TS]

  has feelings for her and his body [TS]

  yeah right but amongst all that he's [TS]

  like I know you guys don't like me i [TS]

  know i narrowly won this election but [TS]

  come on guys like you see that I am [TS]

  trying to do what's right like he's he [TS]

  feels betrayed and hurt in a way that it [TS]

  basically that's that's why i feel like [TS]

  you know the character didn't fight back [TS]

  because it's like because he's just so [TS]

  hard that is like in the end these [TS]

  people who I thought would understand [TS]

  that what I was doing was for the best [TS]

  don't understand i really am alone so [TS]

  just everyone take turns stabbing me and [TS]

  that's why only comes in like nine you [TS]

  too Olly because i thought maybe i can [TS]

  convince you and I don't want you to [TS]

  have to live with it like but he doesn't [TS]

  fight back [TS]

  no he just wants everybody to take turns [TS]

  now 10 seconds no second everybody gets [TS]

  19 but that's that's what's on his face [TS]

  on his faces the disappointment that [TS]

  of the betrayal like it and you know [TS]

  he's I was just doing what I gotta like [TS]

  father like son that you know that it's [TS]

  generally a game of thrones world if you [TS]

  are noble honorable person trying to do [TS]

  the right thing I mean I guess the [TS]

  closest we have a Syrian his kind of [TS]

  noble and kind of honorable sometimes [TS]

  except he's out for himself enough that [TS]

  he's not dead yet yeah yeah he did kill [TS]

  his ex-girlfriend killing his dad is [TS]

  fine as that kind of had that common [TS]

  killing his ex-girlfriend yeah that's I [TS]

  mean he's not as he's not as Nobles Jon [TS]

  Snow put out the as like father like son [TS]

  even though use maybe not maybe not even [TS]

  anybody was not going previous episodes [TS]

  he was that his father should have [TS]

  embraced him as the one son that is the [TS]

  most like him but he didn't [TS]

  oh well no well said that's he's dead [TS]

  now or you know but he might not stay [TS]

  there but we'll see [TS]

  come back as a white Walker like they [TS]

  have theories and kit Harrington is [TS]

  apparently said that they told him he's [TS]

  done [TS]

  yeah well that's I think that again i [TS]

  think is also a live with smoke screens [TS]

  that wasn't doctor doctor who fans know [TS]

  they tell them to see lots of times that [TS]

  are totally not true it is funny because [TS]

  now we are all in that position of [TS]

  spending the next year or so and I guess [TS]

  now it's a race whether george RR martin [TS]

  or the priest or the HBO gets to it [TS]

  first so I don't think that's gonna [TS]

  happen i think i think we'd already know [TS]

  when the next george RR martin book was [TS]

  coming out if it was going to be coming [TS]

  up by next spring they might they might [TS]

  surprise drop it like wake up tomorrow [TS]

  and be like about it like Beyonce album [TS]

  yeah we should do the next decisions of [TS]

  the TV show and then add the books be [TS]

  entirely different yeah it might tell [TS]

  you guys what's gonna happen actually [TS]

  like not just a little bit different in [TS]

  the details but that doesn't have the [TS]

  ending be different like in the books [TS]

  the White Walkers win a TV show they [TS]

  don't like that kind of anything in the [TS]

  book Marvin has a circular head in the [TS]

  movie he has yea and all that is [TS]

  certainly different all right [TS]

  wraps it up for this time it was a good [TS]

  conversation we talked about various TV [TS]

  shows that we talked about one TV show [TS]

  i'd like to thank all my guests for [TS]

  being here tonight David lord thank you [TS]

  for all your many great contributions [TS]

  hey I love that one TV show haha no you [TS]

  mean the other TV shows [TS]

  yeah yeah brah brah brian hamilton thank [TS]

  you so much for being on the show and it [TS]

  was a pleasure talking game of thrones [TS]

  with you all season on the TV podcast to [TS]

  for the watch [TS]

  podcast that we did yeah but the Apple [TS]

  watch [TS]

  dan moore and thank you for being here [TS]

  right now our watches ended and now our [TS]

  watches ended the erica and sign [TS]

  thank you and thank you for having me [TS]

  I'm just gonna go believe the snow [TS]

  yeah it's like a snow don't eat the the [TS]

  redsnow it's probably blood and John [TS]

  syracuse oh thank you [TS]

  you knew something Jon Snow but now [TS]

  we'll never know what it was [TS]

  no now now it's just nothing thanks [TS]

  everybody out there for listening I've [TS]

  been your host Jason smell and we will [TS]

  see you next week [TS]

  hello I'm Anthony Johnson the host of [TS]

  unjustly maligned here on the [TS]

  incomparable network and I've already [TS]

  burned through 15 seconds of the oh so [TS]

  precious minute I've been given to tell [TS]

  you about the show [TS]

  it's all about the sometimes strange [TS]

  things we love for other people [TS]

  well don't some of the guests defending [TS]

  their taste in pop culture include wil [TS]

  wheaton e original tron the Alexander [TS]

  and highlight universe Merlin mom the [TS]

  2009 movie watchmen Casey lists the dave [TS]

  matthews band Erica and Cyn star wars [TS]

  episode 1 the phantom menace and of [TS]

  course it wouldn't be an incomparable [TS]

  show without Jason smell himself poking [TS]

  his nose it [TS]

  stargate sg-1 the science fiction TV [TS]

  series plus many many more unjustly [TS]

  maligned is the show for people who go [TS]

  against the grain every Monday here on [TS]

  the incomparable 30 you MP dot FM to [TS]

  subscribe and remember there's no such [TS]

  thing as a guilty pleasure [TS]

  Wow three seconds left nail [TS]