The Accidental Tech Podcast

21: The Transitive Property of Nerdiness


  this episode is brought to you in part by Audible the leading provider of [TS]

  downloadable audiobooks go to audible podcast dot com slash ATP to learn more [TS]

  Linode Linotype linus Linux cleanness there's so many so many problems are we [TS]

  allowed to do follow-up why not join have you license the term to us [TS]

  I'm getting my bills I rates are very very reasonable honey I've been getting [TS]

  them yeah alright so this first bid is just somebody post something and I dot [TS]

  net whose user name is jst but I don't know if that's the real name more and/or [TS]

  believe here and suggest you think so this is about as an iWatch follow up and [TS]

  he thinks that the iWatch will be Apple's foray into identity and I says [TS]

  that aspect of the washington we didn't talk about it last show I think it's [TS]

  worth talking about [TS]

  and the identity problem in general I the concept is that the thing that you [TS]

  wear on your risk for somehow identify you to all those things that you come in [TS]

  contact with your television set [TS]

  I guessed your phone if you want to pay for something at Starbucks you wave your [TS]

  risk by it or something like that I don't think of anything special about [TS]

  the watch that makes it more possible to be resource around generally them so the [TS]

  phone will have phones now and if we're gonna have some sort of device be [TS]

  resource of identity it would've been the phones by now and wants people to [TS]

  try to do that in various ways so this idea that maybe the maybe the phone is [TS]

  too big or too expensive for the battery doesn't last long enough for you have to [TS]

  take it out of your pocket or something else that this would be slightly more [TS]

  accessible than to give us another crack at making this magical identity thing [TS]

  where r identification is securely carried around this by this little [TS]

  physical dongle when you sit down your computer the tax that you are you [TS]

  because you're the one wearing the watch it on my phone lock your screen and [TS]

  logged in [TS]

  in when you walk into a room of plays the music that you like to put things on [TS]

  your tab when you swipe it when you buy things at stores is the fantasy scenario [TS]

  and I think the carrier said that are you know not technological there [TS]

  business-related where the payment processors camped out at every possible [TS]

  place that want to give you money and maybe standards related where if you [TS]

  want the same little dongle to do all these different functions charger how's [TS]

  everything you own has to be created by the same company and purchased recently [TS]

  because even if Apple roll this out it wouldn't work with all the past Apple [TS]

  hardware probably would have to get new stuff for the very least you need to [TS]

  update software so I think the scenario will continue to be a fantasy but while [TS]

  nothing is actually announced this is the time to indulge in that fantasy I [TS]

  suppose so this person basically just wants to enable the pictures on the wall [TS]

  from the movie antitrust did you ever see that abomination I did not you [TS]

  should it's Ryan Philippe philippi or whatever and Tim Robbins tim robbins [TS]

  basically plays Bill Gates and Ryan Phillippe philippi whatever is a crack [TS]

  programmer in so they go into quote-unquote Bill Gates house and as he [TS]

  goes in between rooms like the the lights dimmed to a certain level and the [TS]

  pictures on the wall which are all like LCD displays show different pictures I [TS]

  think this was based on something that job supposedly had in his mansion job [TS]

  said Gates had in his mansion but the theory being that this watch could kind [TS]

  of an evil that it in other words it's always on you and just like he said it's [TS]

  always personalized to you and I would like to lower power than a phone so I [TS]

  guess it wouldn't charge is easily so right I don't really see this happening [TS]

  in that way with watches I mean it rather I don't I don't see watches [TS]

  changing anything you know i i think first of all one big problem with this [TS]

  is that I think there's gonna be a lot more phones and watches out there and [TS]

  you know my theory from last episode was that the watch would really just be a [TS]

  phone accessory and wouldn't you know I don't know if I outright said it but I [TS]

  but my theory here is that it wouldn't be anything but [TS]

  it's like a Bluetooth headset with no device that it would just be in a [TS]

  communicating over Bluetooth Low Energy and it would just be a peripheral to [TS]

  your iPhone or maybe iPad and iPod Touch will be interesting but for all the [TS]

  reasons why we don't yet have this magical automatic identity thing with [TS]

  these devices I think all those same reasons are going to continue to make it [TS]

  impossible for us to have that with watches also or rather impractical for [TS]

  us to have that with watches all the same reasons apply you have weird [TS]

  privacy and security issues you have a big boil the ocean problem you have a [TS]

  lot of just weird [TS]

  incompatibilities in reality because it wouldn't you know it reality it wouldn't [TS]

  be one company making all these things that all work together you know you [TS]

  would have you know what you have now you have Apple doing pretty well with [TS]

  the iPhone but then you still have enjoyed used to have Windows Phone east [TS]

  of all the things you have all the people who have iPhones a small portion [TS]

  them have max but a lot more of them have Windows PCs and some of them have [TS]

  iPads and some of them don't end so people who have maximum time Android [TS]

  devices people who have iPads and Android phone there's there's there's a [TS]

  giant diverse environment things have to work in these days and for something [TS]

  like identity to work that well and to be that ubiquitous I think it would you [TS]

  have to have one company so dominant in the field that it could make everything [TS]

  for almost everybody and I don't think we're gonna have that for at least the [TS]

  next decade and hopefully large were better off not having that you know this [TS]

  is somewhat somewhat well something you said a moment ago [TS]

  segue somewhat well to a post my friend Eric will endure wrote the post which [TS]

  I'm pasting in chat let me kind of take you on a little mental journey so we [TS]

  talked to last episode about you know what is the thing that I was that this I [TS]

  watches solving and also [TS]

  you know what's the challenge of it in the challenges that there's really not a [TS]

  whole lot of input that can go into this and also not a lot of output that you [TS]

  can get from it and so you know what already fixes that in Eric pointed out [TS]

  well [TS]

  Siri could be a good answer for that and I think part of the reason I'm bringing [TS]

  this up is because I'm so excited at the thought of a dick tracey watch which I [TS]

  joked about at the end of the last episode but the thought being hey you [TS]

  know syria could solve a lot of these problems of an input-output for and I [TS]

  watch and the other thing that occurred to me that I didn't bring up was a DQ [TS]

  during the keynote at about an hour and 42 minutes said something about how hey [TS]

  series gonna have a little more control over the things the phone can do in the [TS]

  example he used I think was thing or things like brightness and one or two [TS]

  other things maybe even Bluetooth which maybe wouldn't be relevant in terms and [TS]

  i watch but I thought it was an interesting idea that perhaps some sort [TS]

  of really syria-based integration could work well with the watch now on the [TS]

  other side of the coin to argue with myself and with Eric I don't know if a [TS]

  dick tracey watch as much as I G O can say I want it would be a really socially [TS]

  acceptable thing I think they would be a little awkward if we all walked around [TS]

  talking to our culture our risk but then again we all walk around staring down at [TS]

  our crotches so I guess it can only be but so bad I guess my problem with so [TS]

  much of this is is you know basically why don't we have this now what what's [TS]

  stopping us from doing this with phones already because really it with when it [TS]

  comes to things like capturing input and having sensors and everything [TS]

  the phone already covers pretty much all of this area that there's not a whole [TS]

  lot of ground that a phone in your pocket or bag or jacket doesn't really [TS]

  cover their end and there are you know some certainly the some things are [TS]

  things like biometric information [TS]

  pedometers style things you know those things that the phone either doesn't [TS]

  reliably have or [TS]

  or or just can't get practically but unless you know press against your naked [TS]

  late all the time when I'm sure somebody does a lot of people behind for most of [TS]

  these things that we think of as oh it will allow us to do X Y and Z almost all [TS]

  of them you could do with a phone and we aren't doing with phones and I think [TS]

  it's worth asking why and and looking at it with some healthy skepticism of well [TS]

  if this isn't working with phones are for not doing the set with phones [TS]

  there's probably a really good reason for that and it's probably not going to [TS]

  change if we have a microphone or some sensors or any ink screen or anything [TS]

  else [TS]

  stuck to our wrist instead of in our pockets a serious thing is weird though [TS]

  because I don't see how it could ever provide experiences this even as good as [TS]

  it is on the phone because it never have to communicate with the phone to do the [TS]

  serious thing so it would be like using surrender from which already is not [TS]

  snappy only delayed by one more hot because it's not the phone is gonna talk [TS]

  to the series service itself it's not gonna have you know 3G wireless gonna be [TS]

  talking to the phone phones gonna be talking to syria service and then you [TS]

  know little game of relay back and forth and it has all the same problems as [TS]

  serious you know say something hopefully weight as you stare at it and wait to [TS]

  see how an interpreter misinterpreted what you said and wait for an answer it [TS]

  is not day a snappy experience even ignoring like the whole how do you feel [TS]

  about talking to yourself [TS]

  type of thing I do not see people are you serious game when you're conversing [TS]

  with it and then use it for a very focused tasks rarely and I don't see [TS]

  them maybe they feel like they need to do it in private but people tell me I [TS]

  used to set reminders are used it to answer text messages when I'm in the car [TS]

  whatever those are all times when they're not with somebody your friends [TS]

  are secretly using Siri when you aren't around because they you know people feel [TS]

  more comfortable talking to their thing using speech recognition 1010 me when I [TS]

  do speech recognition to like read my articles with a dictation it's more [TS]

  comfortable that when no one is in the room hearing you say fragments of [TS]

  sentences issue voice commands [TS]

  no oh yeah I know I would definitely say also that you know whenever I have to [TS]

  use Syrian public III will usually try to use it as quietly as possible and [TS]

  often I will do the thing where I pick up the phone and put it to my ear [TS]

  because most people to know that also trigger Siri with the project up the [TS]

  proximity sensor and you can just talk into it like a so it looks almost like [TS]

  you're talking to someone on the phone while you're giving a commander [TS]

  secretary and a very stern voice your by restaurants remind me to tell my wife I [TS]

  love her when I get home anyway so I mean is there anything really knew that [TS]

  we think about the watch now I mean one thing we initially article also by [TS]

  response I gotta put this in in the notes that lost it but somebody [TS]

  basically outlined what Bluetooth Low Energy does and and what what makes [TS]

  possible and and white so much better and in the context in response to our [TS]

  percent last week in the context of the of the iWatch and I hope it's I hope [TS]

  it's not called that because it the name is already starting to sound stupid in [TS]

  my head and it probably means all those trademark application and i thought i [TS]

  published it too and MacBook terrible so I really do hope that that if this [TS]

  exists it's either a very small scale thing at first like the Apple TV now [TS]

  which is like you know everyone's so excited about something for TV and they [TS]

  release the Apple TV as we know it today which is like okay it's nice but it's a [TS]

  pretty small scale problem-solver and and so if they would make a watch it [TS]

  could be that right it could just be doing things that are very similar to [TS]

  what the people on the other things like that do now which is basically show [TS]

  notifications on the watch and and maybe having some minor sensors like a like a [TS]

  fit better FuelBand equivalent but not doing a whole lot else not having a [TS]

  microphone for Siri you know maybe maybe they had those things later on but just [TS]

  starting out with a nice simple problem said they can do really well with all [TS]

  the existing hardware [TS]

  and have great battery life and not be as giant bulky thing on your wrist not [TS]

  look ugly not look like a loner convention happening on your wrist and [TS]

  and just do that really well I hope that's what they do because i dont you [TS]

  looking at everything else all the things they could possibly that would be [TS]

  all these crazy transformative ideas it seems like for a lot of them they have [TS]

  extremely bad old practical or technological restrictions that would [TS]

  really prevent them from being good yeah I think about the i watch the more I [TS]

  keep coming back to I feel like the only way it's going to be really in trying [TS]

  and I still think the only way it's gonna be really interesting is if it [TS]

  aggregates sensors in a new and clever way let me give you a couple examples in [TS]

  the original iPhone as opposed to having hit to hit a button to rotate the screen [TS]

  from portrait to landscape it added an accelerometer in order to do that [TS]

  automatically in order to prevent sheik dialing somebody or cheek hanging up on [TS]

  someone had a proximity sensor in order to turn off the display and turn off the [TS]

  touch input when the thing is up against your head and maybe that's not [TS]

  aggregation strictest sense but I feel like taking sensors that we have today [TS]

  like a Fitbit or something like it and taking either new sensors are the [TS]

  existing sensors in and putting that data together in a new and interesting [TS]

  way that's what I feel like an iWatch would do that with differentiated but [TS]

  how specifically I don't have the faintest idea that Samsung would do it i [TS]

  watch copy they would make it so that when you used the same site iPad equip [TS]

  them whenever that is [TS]

  you can wave your hand in front of it without actually contacting the screen [TS]

  to do gestures because it would have to be there to do things sort of like that [TS]

  with a single device but once you have two of them yet to sort of start [TS]

  thinking like Nintendo ok 12 cents on my wrist and the screen over here and if I [TS]

  wave my hand this is you know that the sensor can recognize my jesters without [TS]

  me physically interacting with the other device and use it you know that type of [TS]

  thing I assume Apple would pass on most things like that because non-contact you [TS]

  eyes are not particularly [TS]

  nice feeling but guaranteed Samsung would do it just because it's possible [TS]

  they seem to try everything is technically possible at Rideout shipping [TS]

  on divisive people like me to do you know when he launched but it was the [TS]

  most recent one the s3 as far but whatever it so whatever the most recent [TS]

  one was a member of the end and it had the cover featured had the tilt [TS]

  scrolling and all those all these crazy things get the eyeball tracking to see [TS]

  when you're looking at the video like you know if we can do it if it does [TS]

  anybody I mean we heard a lot about those when it was launched I haven't [TS]

  heard a thing about them or actually have to be awful because like it if they [TS]

  were if they had many of them had passed the threshold into being so reliable [TS]

  that they really useful they were quickly spread elsewhere but if you [TS]

  don't see them everywhere else it means that the technology does not quite ready [TS]

  so the eyeball thing like if that was reliable enough that it felt better than [TS]

  actually having a play pause button would be everywhere but it's not because [TS]

  it's not that reliable yeah well let's go to things that are reliable talk [TS]

  about her first monster today it's the transporter is a repeat sponsor any of [TS]

  this response are a lot of great shows recently and so you've probably heard [TS]

  about this already but we're going to play better anyway it's that good post [TS]

  about to sponsorships so at the transporter is a pretty cool device so [TS]

  the idea is your own kind of like a private cloud storage drive you you have [TS]

  this physical device it's a little bit like basically a hard drive enclosure [TS]

  with some cool software network port so here's how this works [TS]

  you you buy this thing from them to get it empty for 200 bucks you put in your [TS]

  own two and a half drive or you can get a one terabyte version for 300 bucks for [TS]

  a two terabyte version for 400 bucks and by the way before I forget you can go to [TS]

  File Transfer dot com slash ATP look this stuff up and you get 10% off those [TS]

  prices which saves a lot you know its 40 bucks off the two terabyte 110 percent [TS]

  off by using coupon code ATP in their store let me tell you why you want this [TS]

  thing we all use Dropbox and I mentioned last time that you know it really takes [TS]

  balls for a company whose competing [TS]

  with Dropbox in some way to directly call out Dropbox and say look we know [TS]

  you use it we're not going to pretend they don't exist [TS]

  here's what here's how we're different and here's why you might want to use us [TS]

  instead or in addition so what this hard drive enclosure that they sell you they [TS]

  come to the web service that will relay traffic for you but everything is [TS]

  private [TS]

  all your data is stored on that drive it in your possession it in your physical [TS]

  possession all the traffic if you if you access it from everywhere else you can [TS]

  do that you can have different transport you and your friend can have on you can [TS]

  do it like an offsite backup with your friends house your workplace your [TS]

  parents house whenever and you can share files of people and you can share photos [TS]

  of people and all of that is by invitation only you control who sees it [TS]

  and what kind of access they have everything is encrypted end-to-end so [TS]

  nobody not transporter staff not even listening in the middle and nobody can [TS]

  see what you're transferring between the two derives its encrypted end-to-end and [TS]

  all you gotta do is buy the drive and then for life you have access to the [TS]

  Service that relays things on track for you so it does some really awesome [TS]

  cloud-like things sharing and encryption and transfer and mirroring to other [TS]

  drive if you want to all these things without having to lock the files up and [TS]

  someone else's servers and deal with the security implications thereof you might [TS]

  be required for instance by regulations or by client contract to keep files in [TS]

  your possession this makes collaboration so much easier in that kind of situation [TS]

  so transporter it's easy it's private cloud sharing and their sewing things [TS]

  you can do it you imagine offsite backup before collaboration lot of people that [TS]

  I know use it to to send audio files to each other for podcasts obviously a [TS]

  whole bunch of other things you can do with it so really end these guys are so [TS]

  nice they keep sending us free transporters and and it's it's awesome [TS]

  they're they're making this new 2.0 software features the Drobo recently [TS]

  acquired them so they end and if I to track down to buy extra employees so [TS]

  they really know what they're doing historic stuff [TS]

  and it's really a great company to watch great product to use to check out [TS]

  transporter gonna file transporter dot com slash ATP and once again use code [TS]

  ATP and their story 10% off of their already awesome prices and really it's [TS]

  it's as easy as sending an invitation to a man you want to share files with or [TS]

  you can keep your files private and have everything encrypted an awesome it's [TS]

  really just a fantastic product and thanks a lot to file transporter casey [TS]

  you had one of these things indeed it is really nice it really is it's it's [TS]

  pretty much exactly like Dropbox but rather than just like you said rather [TS]

  than being in the cloud [TS]

  it's in my possession so if for some reason I ever wanted this stuff not to [TS]

  be on the internet what not to say that it's on the internet but so to speak if [TS]

  I never wanted it to be inaccessible from the internet even by myself I [TS]

  removed the Ethernet jack and suddenly there's nothing anyone can do to get to [TS]

  it now granted the NSA's re read all of it anyway but in principle they can't [TS]

  well now I'm saying at at the before this point the NSA has read everything [TS]

  but once I removed the internet jack there's nothing they can do to read it [TS]

  shy of coming to my house please don't come to my house if they're already in [TS]

  your house casey Cumz they probably had sex yet it's it's a great concept it's a [TS]

  great device and you know I'm a big fan I've written about a lot recently I'm a [TS]

  big fan of owning your own stuff online of being control of everything and [TS]

  ensure there there's a place for Dropbox but there's there's a lot of situations [TS]

  where you feel a lot better having your own stuff plus I mean two terabytes on [TS]

  Dropbox cost you know there's there's a custom pics here too and and you know [TS]

  transporter they have they have software that integrates with Mac OS that it [TS]

  provides a lot of the same conveniences as a Dropbox offer you have the folder [TS]

  integration defined integration the share links everything that all of that [TS]

  but with it with a drive you control it it really is fantastic it's a great idea [TS]

  for a product and I'm very very happy that they made it alright so moving [TS]

  along thanks transporter John you mentioned last week in the after show [TS]

  strange ways that real people use iOS I was wondering if you could explain that [TS]

  the recent vacation to see family since the last time I visited it seems like [TS]

  all them got iPhone 4 S's for less expensive iPhone didn't see any iPhone 5 [TS]

  and I noticed a little bit of the wEDC strange ways that other developers use [TS]

  iPhones but seeing how regular people use them because they don't have any [TS]

  that have any circle of people that to give them sort of the social norms of [TS]

  how you use an iPhone and here's the thing that I noticed right away [TS]

  first thing and thus the monostable as well as I didn't see anybody filled [TS]

  their screens with icon springboard screens and up until very recently [TS]

  everyone I saw their screens because your first green utility icon said when [TS]

  you read a review go to your second screen in Philly from top to bottom and [TS]

  icons and so on and so forth right and that is sort of the correct me if I'm [TS]

  wrong but that's more or less D the social norm of how you configure your [TS]

  iPhone and that he did you see what I was gonna say that's the normal though I [TS]

  will use myself as an example of odd way and then on way that people use their [TS]

  iPhone for whatever reason and I read this somewhere and I am trying to figure [TS]

  out where I read this but I copied from someone on the internet that on their [TS]

  first home screen only their first home screening of you what are you ok so on [TS]

  on Marcos first home screen he leaves the row above the doc blank and I don't [TS]

  know why that rang true with me but I was thinking oh that's a really good [TS]

  idea so on my first and only first home screen I have the bottom row blank but [TS]

  on every other screen of which there are generally a total of three [TS]

  I use up every every single spaced and that's not something I started seeing [TS]

  people intentionally leaving blank rows on on on the last page and then like [TS]

  even having an on the first Asian my question I guess we're both using your [TS]

  during this is why why do you have a black robe of your doc on the first page [TS]

  well I have a whole complexity of my system also but which I was 7 makes [TS]

  awesome actually but the main reason why I have always done that was that like [TS]

  the very first iPhone like what version 1.0 before ABS had I believe one icon in [TS]

  the bottom row or none but always when I was used to like a nice like kind of [TS]

  neutral swipe area to swipe between the two screens where its Web anywhere you [TS]

  can but like it's like it's like a reliable area like you know you can [TS]

  swipe their not accidental launch something something bad has happened [TS]

  anyway so so so there's that there was that kind of legacy reason other than it [TS]

  looks better it looks a lot less crowded and I also the bottom was always like [TS]

  where my appt in progress which is usually Instapaper would go and so [TS]

  because it at first like in the early versions of the SDK I think every time [TS]

  you install the app on the phone it would move it to the default next [TS]

  application or something like that which is always right there something like [TS]

  that anyway there were some reason the development of wild always have [TS]

  Instapaper and back for free in the bottom row by themselves in the second [TS]

  half it was clear the other thing I do this weird that I recommend to anybody [TS]

  who want to try this I used to back when after first came out I would have all [TS]

  these different pages of apps and it just sucked once voters came out I [TS]

  decided to do a different system which I don't like folders I think they're very [TS]

  clumsy 22 internally and actually I was seven unless because they hold less per [TS]

  screen you you at least you have pegged borders now so photos have way more [TS]

  total capacity but it moved from showing what was it before 12 which are three [TS]

  rows are for [TS]

  I think you're right so when I was sick I believe it should be the 12 or 16 [TS]

  icons in a folder and well and are you a short phone like that anyway [TS]

  16 on the right ok so is every Aug but on an iOS 7 check here just to make sure [TS]

  I'm get this right I believe you only get nine this is just this is not the [TS]

  NDA of course yes only get nine per per folder screen and you can have multiple [TS]

  screens that said but it ends up that like you know getting into the folder is [TS]

  already an extra tap and so to have to a page through phone are only seeing nine [TS]

  of the time is kinda clumsy have no neutral swipe area inside folders what [TS]

  do you do [TS]

  that's a great question I don't know I just launched accidentally all the time [TS]

  but what I do is my very first page I keep configured mostly the way the [TS]

  original iPhone always was configured with everything in roughly the same [TS]

  spots if I have like a really awesome preferred replacement Apple put it in [TS]

  the same spot the apple of his two goals like for example use solver incident [TS]

  calculator and social ver is the second row right most spot for me because [TS]

  that's because it was believed the original iPhone anyway and so on the [TS]

  first pictures no folders on the second page that's all the folders go and it [TS]

  can have individual icons also the second page for all folders go and I [TS]

  only have those two pages which is really honestly great I love having [TS]

  switched to a 22 page only standard because you always know like you always [TS]

  know where you are you on your first page you're not it's very very very easy [TS]

  and all the things that you want to like dairy for occasional use can go in one [TS]

  of the folders in the second page and with iOS 7 now now the folders can hold [TS]

  so much more in total you can at least say like you know I used to have like [TS]

  games new games new games to test like three different folders for games cuz [TS]

  they went off in one and now you have one and I you know I have a folder [TS]

  called like prayer and utility in a unanimous have a rare you know so [TS]

  there's anyway I I highly recommend it [TS]

  doing a two-screen only set up and use it as many voters you need to add a [TS]

  second screen to to do that it really is awesome in the iPad even just one page [TS]

  that which is even better just to confirm that fun to do it exactly and [TS]

  that nothing thank God they moved spotlight I i love that change I seventy [TS]

  moved spotless and you have to pull it down from the top it's no longer like a [TS]

  springboard page the far left I think one of the stupidest things in in all [TS]

  iOS was when you were on the home screen if you tap the home button that would be [TS]

  a shortcut to go over to the spotlight screen and that so many times I [TS]

  accidentally did that and I've seen other people do it even more and I [TS]

  joining me from your regular people experience how many times did [TS]

  accidentally hit the home button too many times I see that a lot but I also [TS]

  think it's kind of like people have the home button when they want to go back to [TS]

  the beginning and they understand that concept if they're ready at the [TS]

  beginning in the hit it again it probably means that they want to go back [TS]

  backer to the more beginning her and basically like they can't find what [TS]

  they're looking for they're not just bring me back to like the beginning [TS]

  beginning and throwing the search field in their faces like oh alright well I [TS]

  guess I can type here is a kind of know what the name of the thing is I'm [TS]

  looking for [TS]

  so it's kind of like the course of the last resort used you press this button [TS]

  because obviously you're not finding what you think you're supposed to be [TS]

  funny but we've already brought you to the place this button press takes you so [TS]

  by pressing again you're saying no I'm still not satisfied here as last resort [TS]

  but you know for me personally it's just frustrating when accidentally hit ignore [TS]

  notice I'm on the first green or something but for other people have to [TS]

  wonder if it's not an OK thing and I kind of like the fact that it was till [TS]

  after the home screen especially like the way they did but the little icons at [TS]

  the bottom of this to settle for most people with a little dot icons right [TS]

  when you're on the first page there is one more . but it's not a dot it's a [TS]

  tiny tiny just adorable so I can I don't look at your iOS device no no you're [TS]

  right and and that that was a nice touch but I just I have personally I've [TS]

  witnessed so many accidentally indications of spotlight but I double [TS]

  home button tab thing [TS]

  that I have to imagine that's not worth it at 74 experienced years or so I hear [TS]

  so for people using the iPhone was not just leaving a row blank but wiping out [TS]

  every single icon except for one row for on the top and i wanna evensong one [TS]

  person's phone was one row for on the top on the first home screen page all [TS]

  folders and everything else basically deleted it wiped out and do something [TS]

  fun like multiple pages where you go to the next page one row for the top maybe [TS]

  not all folders maybe all folders and only a couple pages maybe three or four [TS]

  pages only one of the top and of course the dock on the bottom because I don't [TS]

  know if they knew how to get things out of there whatever and you know before I [TS]

  spoke to these people I just saw their devices are saw them using them what [TS]

  what's going on there [TS]

  why why why would you ever do that doesn't make any sense like unless [TS]

  they're in the stairs following the market for Las Vegas need a massive safe [TS]

  region despite but that wasn't looking for 60 after speaking to them the reason [TS]

  they're doing this can you guys guess before I reveal it to do think it saves [TS]

  battery life or otherwise is related to sophisticated Casey I don't even have [TS]

  the fan because they want to make sure that the space for the expanded folder [TS]

  know that's a good 100 cause yeah it's because they put a picture on their wall [TS]

  paper and then one another and the pictures like the top part of the [TS]

  pictures just background like trees or whatever but the faces are in the bottom [TS]

  part and people with pictures people had pictures that were purposely like my ass [TS]

  to lower parts of the people's faces were lower down to get to where they [TS]

  want to see their wanna see the people's pictures that make something like you [TS]

  know adding more they added an iOS four or five and ability to have you know [TS]

  wallpapers instead of just a black background that you know better [TS]

  unforeseen side effect of giving people the ability to put a picture in the [TS]

  background is that they're gonna wanna see it and they're going to clear out [TS]

  they don't want some icon sitting on top of their kids head just gonna move [TS]

  those things out of the way and 13 left with is a screen with nothing on it and [TS]

  the the bike for falters at the top of like when you only have one row of icons [TS]

  use what you still want some minimum now set to be a page 10 then just shove it [TS]

  all the folders incredibly inefficient makes no sense to me but that's how they [TS]

  choose to use their phones and just goes to show that features have unforeseen [TS]

  side effects and the way you think people will use your devices are [TS]

  different from the way though use it in real life because they have very [TS]

  different concerns so I was I was fascinated to see this common pattern [TS]

  and and the opening of this I could occur guess is that the people to delete [TS]

  everything off the phone they could possibly because they don't know what it [TS]

  is like a good that you can't delete the phone up and stuff because if you could [TS]

  they would and then wonder why they can't we all know that you can't believe [TS]

  you later and stuff like that may be okay okay let those go people just like [TS]

  you know by now ideas for things like everything else out there so solutions [TS]

  to move a US Marine Matt I would have predicted in have seen before [TS]

  don't tell about parental controls oh yeah that's the thing with the settings [TS]

  italy did settings and I get these are the same people like one person really [TS]

  was annoyed about the weather channel on their new television service possible [TS]

  you have an iPhone 28 Brazilian weather apps fine when do you like but there's [TS]

  no doubt about whether you'll have the weather forecast right there like even [TS]

  out something like dark sky whatever saying like if you if your home [TS]

  obsession is when it's going to ram is out like real-time radar like we have [TS]

  the technology that's better than you know watching the weather channel wading [TS]

  through commercials and weather reports various for you don't live or whatever [TS]

  happened to going to the TV room trying to TV I prefer to see it on TV I want [TS]

  someone talking to me even though it involves watching commercials and [TS]

  watching whether for their towns that are not your town [TS]

  and like that's that's crazy but you know what happens I will say dark skies [TS]

  to one of those things that can blow the minds of any normal person I try I try [TS]

  to show them but it's not like not impress I want I want to other person [TS]

  and TV talking about I want that human touch anyway the Dropbox thing we do is [TS]

  john Dunn [TS]

  I think of more later but the to the two big ones where the home screen so you [TS]

  can see the picture and getting all the application of the home screen and [TS]

  indeed totaled only being unimpressed by applications that is not just whether [TS]

  been any kind of applications like things that we all know that you can do [TS]

  with your phone that you know you know you could do XYZ responding now that [TS]

  doesn't seem to be on now did you see a lot of people force quitting apps for no [TS]

  good reason as I still see that constantly what they're really scary [TS]

  partners in seven I don't know how much this is public [TS]

  tread lightly and iOS 7 is actually a really good reason to remove apps from [TS]

  the multi task switcher now they have it in the movies you want to get in to get [TS]

  them out of there so they're not in your ways you don't you know no that's not it [TS]

  there is well that's i mean that's part of for some people but in 790 a new [TS]

  background and stuff I don't know I don't know this public or not well let's [TS]

  see anybody cares the new background and stuff and seven up here and in the [TS]

  background if your app has been removed from the switcher it does not do that so [TS]

  you can't get back on updates which is a change since iOS 6 2006 even like like [TS]

  the newsstand content available things go through no matter what but in seven [TS]

  if you're after moving the switcher you don't get any background wake up types [TS]

  of any [TS]

  you can still get push notifications at work the user by your app will not run [TS]

  in the background at all if you've been removed so there actually is a pretty [TS]

  substantial reason to to manage or not manage things and that's what you're now [TS]

  so come to think that means that all these [TS]

  well informed people who are constantly clearing out what is now they're [TS]

  multitasking tray are actually kind of shooting themselves in the foot because [TS]

  now all of their apps that are not running in the background [TS]

  won't get up while running in the background so to speak aren't getting [TS]

  updates and they're actually demands that they were already demonstrably [TS]

  analyzing their own experience but now it's even worse there's even more reason [TS]

  not to do that or just this is all just a sliver like it's it's this that [TS]

  they're the people who knew her techniques in all the details then [TS]

  there's the aspirational technology know enough to force quit and then there's [TS]

  the vast majority people who have no idea about holding your finger to get [TS]

  the little red thing and who will continue to have no idea but swiping up [TS]

  to get rid of those icons because it's not there's nothing that indicates that [TS]

  that's possible just like this nothing that indicates that you can press and [TS]

  hold on the multi task switcher and I think I had to think that the vast [TS]

  majority people never use either one of those features and the phone as manager [TS]

  for them it was just this fringe of the people who know enough to be dangerous [TS]

  there right the power users how are you saw it the most dangerous users to [TS]

  support or for anybody freights departments for developers for [TS]

  themselves they just always like the worst ideas of support because power [TS]

  users they know enough to cause trouble and or or to cause headaches for [TS]

  themselves or others but usually not enough to really fix things if they [TS]

  break them or or have a really great environment and and their usual ones [TS]

  that are most susceptible to superstition and and myths and when I [TS]

  heard a lot of reports that geniuses quote unquote geniuses were telling [TS]

  people to force quit everything under the Sun because that makes your iPhone [TS]

  run faster which is just patently wrong even in iOS 6 that's just wrong [TS]

  right well and again geniuses many of them are this type of person the power [TS]

  user who like you know they know enough to have that job that doesn't [TS]

  necessarily mean that they know the details of how iOS works and why why [TS]

  that's a bad idea why that does or doesn't do something [TS]

  and almost any like I T person that you're but you're likely run into any [TS]

  kind of department that almost all of them are the type of this type of user [TS]

  there's there's some really good ones that know a lot more but most people ran [TS]

  into in this kind of context are like the nose on to be dangerous power user [TS]

  and that's one of the reasons why all these crazy myths like defragging long [TS]

  after that was all that mattered all these crazy miss get propagated and live [TS]

  on because it's all these power users saying you know oh well it's easy to do [TS]

  this and this and this every day to keep your phone cleaner whatever and then and [TS]

  you know it nothing bad ever happens if you do that so you can ski propagating [TS]

  you know your platform has arrived when you get one of those who had a long [TS]

  sequence of them I think we're building the desktop but yet sapping the pier and [TS]

  you had all those things and then like this pakistan got repairing permissions [TS]

  and then I S I guess the first was the first one that I got was the force [TS]

  quitting out so when I know I believe so I was like one of the first things you [TS]

  could do as kind of like an amateur system administrator for your phone it [TS]

  was like there's not much else you can do there is no iOS defect although there [TS]

  are you know there have been like crazy scanner app in the App Store like [TS]

  maximize your battery life and stuff like stuff like that and I i was wonder [TS]

  how they get approved [TS]

  you read description you finally got well it's actually just like it's a joke [TS]

  after officially or its educational only orders has like list of tips and tricks [TS]

  that you supposed to do but there's a lot of apps even in the top lists as a [TS]

  lot after selling really well that are basically scams preying on this kind of [TS]

  mythology of a napkin can pressure memory on iOS or can speed your phone [TS]

  number save your battery life and a somebody in the chat I shouldn't share [TS]

  this person's name just to be safe again from working in the Apple store at the [TS]

  Apple Store the company would send out numerous memos reminding us that force [TS]

  quitting everything under the Sun was wrong but some of my colleagues would [TS]

  spread that lie [TS]

  practices themselves which is kind of sad but that's the nature of [TS]

  superstition you know you can't be convinced by presentation of evidence [TS]

  the whole point of superstition right and it's and it's one of those things [TS]

  that spread so easily into things like well if you do them nothing bad really [TS]

  happens and you can't really tell if anything good happens because its sooo [TS]

  too small the difference if it works you don't need the federal just need to [TS]

  believe I think that's a reference I was in the marine years so this episode is [TS]

  also sponsored by another return sponsor its audible audible is the leading [TS]

  provider of downloadable audiobooks with over a hundred thousand titles in [TS]

  virtually every genre if you want to listen to it [TS]

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  free audiobook with a 30 day trial go to audible podcast dot com slash ATP take [TS]

  advantage of the special offer so once again the audible podcast dot com slash [TS]

  ATP to get free audiobook with a 30 day free trial of any audio books to [TS]

  recommend you know i i havent looked to be honest to confirm that this is an [TS]

  audible but I bet you it is I was asked recently what my favorite movie is if [TS]

  you bear with me for a second my favorite movie if I had to pick just one [TS]

  is probably the Hunt for Red October and you can judge me on that I won't be [TS]

  offended but it's actually based on a Tom Clancy book also curiously enough [TS]

  called The Hunt for Red October and the book as with almost every book that's [TS]

  ever been written that was eventually turned into a movie is actually [TS]

  considerably better than the movie so I would recommend the hunt for October if [TS]

  you're into political thrillers based in the early to mid nineteen eighties when [TS]

  we still hated russia and russia still hated us awesome thanks a lot to audible [TS]

  for sponsoring the show [TS]

  member go to audible podcast dot com slash ATP thanks a lot [TS]

  asked me if I pick you have a pic to save it for the next alright save it [TS]

  so moving along the israeli much to talk about this Dropbox thing actually I [TS]

  don't know if you're being sarcastic or not but I thought there was no I'm so [TS]

  tired of platforms really I mean do we really need another platform [TS]

  well I mean its existing platform as Steve Jobs apartments feature but anyway [TS]

  Dropbox exist as a popular in the reason we are interested in their Davis or at [TS]

  least Im interested in this story prize because it's from Dropbox people already [TS]

  have Dropbox accounts already paid for Dropbox many applications already [TS]

  integrated with Dropbox using existing API for file storage so that's an [TS]

  advantage that many many other things they're supposedly gonna start your crap [TS]

  do not have right even you know even Google made Google com oversight ball [TS]

  right but then how many applications already integrated with Google data [TS]

  stores like it's a it's a bigger hurdle overcome his Dropbox like you're already [TS]

  there you're absurd already talking to it this is basically the equivalent of [TS]

  instead of just documents doc iCloud storage it's like their equivalents kind [TS]

  of sort of not really cordis think we're here hope you're not just storing files [TS]

  your story something that's not just a linear stream of bytes in a single named [TS]

  entity right that's where the similarity and scored eight assists holder [TS]

  percent objects tour thing and this is much simpler this is you know basically [TS]

  scandalous fields with and basically tables so table and his records records [TS]

  of an idea that mean value pairs and you can do one small level nesting [TS]

  underneath that and that's it i I look at these things i think is interesting [TS]

  to see how are they going to offer like they're definitely not going the core [TS]

  data room where they say just use your objects in memory and will magically [TS]

  synchronize them and it with the persistent across all these applications [TS]

  and you can just the rest your application just behave as if memory [TS]

  make everything work it's not quite doing you can just you know sort of [TS]

  speak to a database over a wire and will do updates as I guess every resident [TS]

  databases [TS]

  between they want you to be able to store records in this thing and get [TS]

  notified when there are changes to the Reds his records and but they don't want [TS]

  you to have to implement your own conflict resolution this is where the [TS]

  rubber meets the road like what if I do different things at different price of [TS]

  the line they come back to changes what do I do to sort things out and looking [TS]

  at their documentation briefly it seems like your choices are minimal all the [TS]

  conflict resolution seems to be automatic choices like biggest and [TS]

  smallest value wins some of value wins and that's about it doesn't help me if [TS]

  I'm trying to synchronizing address book you know those policies seem like it [TS]

  would be helpful [TS]

  local versus for most wins I didn't even seem to be any date stamping type things [TS]

  in there you could tell which one happened at a different time [TS]

  synchronization and complication that so I'm not sure what target audience this [TS]

  thing is but like any kind of service they're real proof is going to be [TS]

  reliable is it fast and is it easy to program for in a way that doesn't block [TS]

  my application when you know the change don't come in and in that respect it [TS]

  looks like it has some advantages over iCloud coordinator wade existed in that [TS]

  you don't you don't need to be online for changes to take effect locally and [TS]

  remote changes can come in whenever they want so you shouldn't be blocking as [TS]

  long as you can write your local disk and even read from your local disk so [TS]

  that's good yeah there were i I also looked at the API in the documentation [TS]

  and there are a couple of things that that piqued my interest [TS]

  firstly in this is outside of the documentation quite obviously dropbox is [TS]

  cross platform and let's suppose for the sake of argument that even core data and [TS]

  iCloud worked flawlessly which is a pretty funny thought just to begin with [TS]

  well it's still Apple centric and even though I speak for all three of us and [TS]

  saying we're all in on Apple platforms not everyone is like that we talked [TS]

  about that earlier in this very episode and so dropbox is cross platform which [TS]

  is really nice so if I was psychotic enough to want to write not only an iOS [TS]

  app on Android app I could presumably use this Dropbox did a story epi in [TS]

  order to get data between them [TS]

  additionally like you mentioned John it's not Street sequel and while core [TS]

  data you'll get smacked on the rest if you call it [TS]

  database it isn't a database just like you said some object persistence or [TS]

  object graph persistence mechanism in the generally speaking behind the scenes [TS]

  its sequel lighters SQLite or whatever crap its must be pronounced as well as [TS]

  this like you said John is his own little more flexible than that which is [TS]

  nice [TS]

  obviously there's lots to that and that could be bad but generally speaking it's [TS]

  nice but the other thing that was really interesting is they have a datastore web [TS]

  inspector and I glanced at it very very quickly and it appears that even regular [TS]

  people not even necessarily developers can go in and inspect the datasource [TS]

  stores associated with their Dropbox account and I think that's both very [TS]

  good and arguably maybe not so good because it allows developers to go in [TS]

  and see exactly what tables and records and things are stored in their own [TS]

  Dropbox but that also gives some amount of visibility for user now it is read [TS]

  only through through this web interface but it's still more visibility then you [TS]

  may want now to argue with myself briefly maybe that's a good thing after [TS]

  all in the sense that if somebody storing a bunch of data that I don't [TS]

  want them to store I could go see that and then remove that out but I don't [TS]

  know it just freaks me out for the idea of users seen exactly how on persisting [TS]

  data well that's good because then you could shame people who start plaintext [TS]

  passwords and stuff you know go and see it as they can see your story my whole [TS]

  address book or hey this is my plain text whatever service never know but [TS]

  it's interesting I reason to put that Lincoln [TS]

  in the show notes that is interesting that they launched with that of course [TS]

  of course is going to be web interface to see how do you develop an application [TS]

  if you don't have visibility into what we're doing the datastore and their and [TS]

  their Davis stories so much simpler like it is it is just very simple and [TS]

  primitive compared to the amazing record is supposed to be doing for you mike is [TS]

  up to you to figure out [TS]

  no schema name value pairs lists you know you're gonna get notification is [TS]

  something change will give you a list of record ideas you figured out on a [TS]

  whatever like it's really primitive and things are kind of annoying to dinner [TS]

  yet to write all your own logic to deal with these you know the updates and [TS]

  stuff but it's easy for developers to understand in time and again but proved [TS]

  to be much more important than the amazing framework especially doesn't [TS]

  work right the amazing framework is awesome thanks to you versus the simple [TS]

  one that doesn't do as much for you but what it does do is easily understandable [TS]

  any developer and that gives even like a novice or mediocre developer fighting [TS]

  chance of using your API to do useful work because maybe the using [TS]

  inefficiently maybe they have the right kind of called themselves but [TS]

  conceptually the way it works is like you know it is simple enough they can [TS]

  wrap your head around it so they never get themselves into a situation where [TS]

  they have no idea what's going on they just perhaps make an efficient code so [TS]

  you know her but look at their performance and and how reliable the [TS]

  services and stuff like that but I think they have a big layup and everyone else [TS]

  in movies are already all have Dropbox accounts I am I think the first five [TS]

  megabytes per application that use does not count towards your Dropbox quota so [TS]

  we just want to use the Starlight preferences or small knots estate [TS]

  information are you using this data storage that doesn't count towards a [TS]

  drop box code enforcement you go over that then you start using the person's [TS]

  drop a quarter which is great for Dropbox because then eventually if [TS]

  you're free user limit because using application customer and so virtuous [TS]

  cycle so I'm cautiously optimistic about this now what are the implications for [TS]

  Apple because one could argue that this season iCloud but according to iCloud [TS]

  but not done by Apple and hopefully actually functional [TS]

  so does this light a fire under Apple's keister and make them make court date on [TS]

  iCloud actually work or do you think they don't care they don't care i mean [TS]

  there are people there who do care obviously and people who were on that [TS]

  team obviously do care quite a bit and are working their butts off I assume [TS]

  however you can simply look at what Apple does look at the results you can [TS]

  tell that iCloud is really seen as an accessory and the company and especially [TS]

  the iCloud developer API is the same KPI's and stuff that Apple themselves [TS]

  barely uses for their own apps you can look at that stuff and you can very much [TS]

  see this is like this is not a very high priority for the company again you know [TS]

  so I'm sure it's a very happy for people working on it but you can tell that it's [TS]

  not getting the resources it needs a second priority it needs because look at [TS]

  the last year not much has really changed and the WWDC keynote didn't have [TS]

  a section of the keynote we can talk about whether they said what their [TS]

  policy about iCloud cordero was going forward that was not in the keynote baby [TS]

  was in the state of the union member well they they mentioned in the state of [TS]

  the union but we can talk about but I believe it's safe to say that they [TS]

  basically said like give us another shot in as many words but I I just don't see [TS]

  any we we see this with almost all of Apple's online services especially the [TS]

  ones that Apple themselves doesn't really rely on very much we see that [TS]

  they just don't really put that much effort into them [TS]

  well you know even ones that are ostensibly flagship features like [TS]

  messages like that's that's apples applications and important that by [TS]

  application it obviously got attention because it was messy redesign it still [TS]

  doesn't perform its basic functions in every level matters even when Apple is [TS]

  totally using like nothing that you like or don't know what he uses but the point [TS]

  is that it uses an online service that Apple informants and it is a flagship [TS]

  application and it is the stores work so that's their them using it is not a [TS]

  guarantee that their online services worker but it certainly helps but it [TS]

  just seems like you know Apple still has a lot of that tunnel vision [TS]

  that they are infamous for wear something gets a whole lot of attention [TS]

  but then everything outside of the immediately obvious first interesting [TS]

  thing that they're working on it gets pretty neglected for a while and you [TS]

  know it's it's still a sign of of Apple being a smaller company then there than [TS]

  their success and their money and their their sales and their presence would [TS]

  indicate that they still are very small company was very small teams relative to [TS]

  all the stuff they do and so how they prioritize their resources it still is [TS]

  very much a a zero sum game with them like they don't just had a brand new [TS]

  team to address brand new things are doing [TS]

  move people around and be paradise other things to prioritize certain things like [TS]

  they don't just like by more people out of nowhere and they have the street [TS]

  department all the sudden and you know we've talked in the past about how [TS]

  Google is so good at just applying way more brute force engineering to problems [TS]

  than Apple usually does especially the services area and I just don't see any [TS]

  evidence of Apple changing that anytime soon so anything like this that is [TS]

  basically a major online service that's really tricky to get right and has lots [TS]

  of substantial designed tricks technical challenges and and service challenges [TS]

  and big data challenges I don't see Apple ever doing well as a Apple making [TS]

  life harder here by Dropbox has chosen to make it simpler AP I like it it does [TS]

  less stuff for you in this just simply write much simpler than I got caught in [TS]

  a far far simpler right so that gives them a fighting chance of getting it to [TS]

  work correctly having a small API to developers can pick up and it's like a [TS]

  philosophical difference between the team that is responsible for doing these [TS]

  kind of services for Apple philosophically apartment like look they [TS]

  already had carded a people already have court in applications where you gonna [TS]

  say to those people [TS]

  hey we want your applications to work with iCloud but core data doesn't work [TS]

  with iCloud so rewrite your thing to use something more like the Dropbox Inc API [TS]

  like that would have been [TS]

  a tough sell back when you know I clog court it was introduced by Russell [TS]

  excited but I have a court application and they tell me more like I don't think [TS]

  if you told them okay well you don't have to throw out or did it and use this [TS]

  new API that totally unlike korda much simpler you have to do a lot more coding [TS]

  to get it to work but trust us that the telephone companies know you're a price [TS]

  have to be small simple and semantically you know easy to understand because [TS]

  that's that's the way to do it you if you try to make something big and [TS]

  complicated your API is gonna be big and complicated on on the client side and [TS]

  service going to be really hard to implement and efficient manner in scale [TS]

  and all those other things so don't do that but Apple is so far [TS]

  sticking to their guns and seeing where they do have key-value store in like [TS]

  they could enhance key-value store over the course of a year to make we make it [TS]

  matches Dropbox API and remove all their stories limits could tell you stories [TS]

  really just return the data and they would have it the equivalent of this and [TS]

  by all accounts key-value store doesn't work products is simpler to do less stop [TS]

  for it but they know we want to we want to make it work magically over the [TS]

  internet and it's a big complicated AP I would like to court cases both on the [TS]

  client and the server and if anything goes wrong bad things happen and we need [TS]

  more debugging tools and it really hard problem and the size of the teams to the [TS]

  Dropbox date API is probably like one tenth of the people who are trying to do [TS]

  the core data thing and yet they'll probably do more successful because they [TS]

  chose it as something simpler now they the only thing that I wonder if I didn't [TS]

  see specifically noted in the API documentation is it what about sharing [TS]

  so I keep coming back to my example of sharing a grocery list with my wife and [TS]

  it seems like the this Dropbox datastore epi would be perfect for it except that [TS]

  I didn't see any mention of sharing but maybe I'm mister Johnson yup notice [TS]

  anything I think it's kind of like just a datastore for your application right [TS]

  it shared tonight user on multiple devices but not really great service [TS]

  that you know well there is there is a JavaScript API as well and I i haven't [TS]

  verified this happened I would assume you could use that like maybe from Notre [TS]

  or the other server-side JavaScript [TS]

  interpreters so you could probably run this server side with job with their [TS]

  terms that you still need to like authenticate as you to get a datastore [TS]

  so if I authenticate is me and my cassini cases downstairs I guess you [TS]

  could come in on some of the service then write like if you are on your own [TS]

  web service that that used this I would imagine you could you can whip that up [TS]

  you know you could just have have a few pages that they do that you know about [TS]

  the authentication for you and and you authenticate your own people who's who's [TS]

  gonna see what although if you go through all that you might as well just [TS]

  have your own sync service on your server yeah I mean that's what it sounds [TS]

  like it but since they have sharing for their file AP I i mean this is this is [TS]

  like their version one right so maybe the next version they add you know [TS]

  obviously they know about sharing the to have some means for you take the same [TS]

  file and shared amongst many people and revoke sharing and and all that other [TS]

  stuff it seems like that would have to come for these days or so they haven't [TS]

  checked out in like you have a datastore datastore have tables tables have [TS]

  records they could do the sharing it probably the datastore table level and [TS]

  it wouldn't be crazy but maybe not [TS]

  yeah I doubt it but I give this two thumbs up I think this is definitely [TS]

  well tentative two thumbs up I think this is definitely a good start if it [TS]

  actually works I think it's a very simple yet at the same time with you [TS]

  were saying John kind of robust way of syncing data that's a very low cost of [TS]

  entry both financially and in terms of effort and so I think this is really [TS]

  cool and although I'm not sure I disagree with you guys in that Apple [TS]

  won't care about this [TS]

  it also makes me wonder especially if adoption is really high [TS]

  well but I I hope in and I wonder that if adoption of this Dropbox datastore [TS]

  epi is really high if Apple start to pay attention and really do something about [TS]

  iCloud and and iCloud in CoreData I should also say that I I know that there [TS]

  was a session or two about iCloud in CoreData at WTC but I've not yet watched [TS]

  them so I don't know [TS]

  know if that was just Apple groveling I don't know if perhaps I was seven [TS]

  there's going to be massive improvements I truly honestly don't know but those of [TS]

  you who do have a developer account should go check it out and I should take [TS]

  my own advice on that issue I've seen those sessions and there is news to be [TS]

  had there interesting thing you didn't mention to tie back to top shows what a [TS]

  news reader decide to use Dropbox datastore as its sync service obviously [TS]

  you can use it to get your feeds for you and give you your content but just [TS]

  keeping track of which things you read and haven't read seems like a fairly [TS]

  ideal you know so you don't wanna make someone sign up for your own service you [TS]

  want to use the account that they already have that they pay for you don't [TS]

  have to run the servers you just have to store some state information about last [TS]

  red state and articles of marked read and favorited a referendum edited you [TS]

  want to keep its basically you know you make up the data story that you want you [TS]

  still might need to service to federal your feeds into all that stuff but that [TS]

  this other part of it for synchronizing which things are red and even just [TS]

  having the applications themselves that's the future I know thats torturous [TS]

  but in the old days that's what things you should do it how about town using [TS]

  the newswire now it's possible this is this could be a piece of people you know [TS]

  reading it be I need anything more than that what if you mix that with this new [TS]

  background and stuff where it could be a nice combination I agree with what I [TS]

  think about the same Marco and that I don't know if that's really sustainable [TS]

  but it's a very interesting approach I might my big thing with it is that if [TS]

  your gonna run if your gonna be having like feed singing and stuff like that [TS]

  there's a lot of advantages to running your own service for to do that there's [TS]

  there's only things you can do in the background when the app isn't running [TS]

  but you can also won the biggest industries in particular is parsing them [TS]

  and and you running into people's weird malformed feeds like it you know if you [TS]

  can if you can adjust your partners on the server side immediately and have [TS]

  that apply to everything for everyone immediately instead of having to like [TS]

  unto them into an app update and ship the updater have some kind of weird [TS]

  system you have like server-side definitions of what the Apple interpret [TS]

  and then you have [TS]

  to add new things it can do to accommodate some reason you feat [TS]

  condition there there certainly are a lot of reasons but readers in particular [TS]

  22 still have a service plus now we have like 15000 reader services and that's [TS]

  what I was thinking of is to say you make a reader at and you want to let [TS]

  people pick from the umpteen other reader services that are gonna do this [TS]

  feat parsing for you that right but you also want to add value in your [TS]

  application you and you also want so you have awesome ideas for features but [TS]

  three out of the four things that you support for you know Iration during [TS]

  don't support the speeches you need some layer on top of that to add your own you [TS]

  know [TS]

  enhancements so I may be one of them you know three and four don't support like [TS]

  favoriting or something like that [TS]

  well you can store information about your favorites where do you want to run [TS]

  a full service now you could but if it's simple enough you could just use Dropbox [TS]

  has your back and you know Dropbox iCloud or two possible options like a [TS]

  value story I wrote about how much do you have to enhance that the back and [TS]

  otherwise you're forced to do with the lowest common denominator of all your [TS]

  services so one of the folders or something like well I guess I can't [TS]

  support for older kids where would I could track my fault as well keep track [TS]

  of locally but then synchronize [TS]

  just synchronizes on iOS devices I club but i wanna have a web version blah blah [TS]

  blah well there's the Dropbox data so that's what I'm thinking like an [TS]

  enhancement layer so that your application can be better than the [TS]

  umpteen services it supports maybe but then they also has a problem with a [TS]

  particular there's the problem then of like you only get that benefit if you [TS]

  use that application on all your devices that you browse feeds from and so you [TS]

  only get like it if not newswire adds features that only work in that newswire [TS]

  then you have to use net newswire on Mac and iPhone and iPad as you if you refuse [TS]

  all those places to go but if you use feedback has your back and then you can [TS]

  use any iOS device supports feedback and get you won't have those fancy features [TS]

  but maybe you like a different reader better on the other platforms and [TS]

  presumably you like it better you know for whatever reasons but you're not [TS]

  tired you're not like nursing and then you're not actually tied to the same [TS]

  here every replicas [TS]

  the basics lowest-common-denominator sinks everywhere because everyone the [TS]

  news feeds Feedburner every year [TS]

  your third party service and the basics are not on particular platform you have [TS]

  enhancements and if they do a good enough job with their clients maybe you [TS]

  want to use those enhancements platforms like you know like basically you're [TS]

  saying all have different readers into a platform that means that either the [TS]

  reader is unavailable for the platforms or water may be ahead different feature [TS]

  desire someone from a different Peter desires then you don't care that those [TS]

  enhancements that using your Mac dark elsewhere but if you do care about these [TS]

  awesome features in the not quite what you want to use the iOS version of us so [TS]

  you know nothing is nothing is going to give you everything you want which is [TS]

  don't give me lowest-common-denominator features give me my choice of readers [TS]

  every single platform synchronize everything between them that's never [TS]

  gonna happen because it's just not it's like it's not a solvable problem so you [TS]

  have to pick and choose I think this this type of solution where you use a [TS]

  common back and furloughs come down a fraction howdy and then individual [TS]

  applications are free to enhance the front and using some other service [TS]

  that's that's pretty close to two ideal you know I guess that it causes weird [TS]

  issues in other ways though like for instance let's say it was shipped [TS]

  newswire and uses you know feat band or feed Wrangler or any other services or [TS]

  it can use them and then you're saying where it uses some other back and [TS]

  whether it's their own a Dropbox whatever to add bigger things to it and [TS]

  then let's say feed been freed Wrangler add to their own services that [TS]

  capability and another client sadly [TS]

  newswire than a top that because then they're removing the competitive [TS]

  advantage they have over other features its relations like that if people really [TS]

  do this once we get real numbers though they'll be like look ok and its support [TS]

  for these five back end but in reality ninety percent of users use these two [TS]

  back and so right away I can eliminate those in the back and some having to [TS]

  support them as kind of a pain as well as different backgrounds and other two [TS]

  remaining features actually some of the stuff out including myself is available [TS]

  in both of them I think mall developers would be happy to say oh great well the [TS]

  two remaining ones I support have this feature so I can shift it off [TS]

  onto them but there's always a tension between how much of the value of my [TS]

  application is reliant on the value with third-party service that I don't control [TS]

  and it's great that you can have different clients in the same [TS]

  third-party service but you are just you know it [TS]

  some respects at the at the mercy of that third party service like if they [TS]

  take away a feature that you are relying on so it's good to have someplace to you [TS]

  know either if they take away food you can shift it to your backend and if they [TS]

  had a feature you can take it out of your back and if it is now part of the [TS]

  new lowest-common-denominator you signed to support this is just an unhelpful [TS]

  period now because people are supporting as much as they possibly can be done now [TS]

  things are going to shake out but I have to think is going to be instead of seven [TS]

  of them is gonna be like two or three popular ones left standing after a year [TS]

  and I think actually already seen that shakeout happening now and then I I [TS]

  published my numbers earlier today from what from what I can get it seems like [TS]

  feedly is by far the most popular alternative mostly because it's free and [TS]

  I believe it when the only 13 New Glarus second I i think is free but that has [TS]

  premium features that you can optionally by end users been around forever it's [TS]

  been around a long are believed it was four years it's been way longer than the [TS]

  other services have and then feed Wrangler and feed Ben are basically [TS]

  neck-and-neck they're they're very similar in that they're both paid [TS]

  services run by very small teams I believe they're both run by single [TS]

  people and our people might have to anyway very small teams and and then [TS]

  there's pretty much after that there's a pretty big drop-off like besides that [TS]

  handful like there is literally my list is feebly news blur net newswire clients [TS]

  not even using a service fee trailer and Friedman and everything else is is like [TS]

  less than half of those dropped a drop off pretty quickly and so I think we're [TS]

  already seeing that very few services are are showing up now that being said I [TS]

  don't yet have numbers for dig reader or AOL and those are those are pretty I [TS]

  i've heard a lot of mentioning those I don't know how they are but we will see [TS]

  new entrance next year as well sure [TS]

  haven't come out these are the guys who scrambled to get something ready was [TS]

  going around and in general they tend to be small people about this some bigger [TS]

  slower moving in today and during this field who knows when they can land [TS]

  something that does this do if they do crazy things whole time and I would say [TS]

  feedly is not likely it feeling is likely to burn out I think because they [TS]

  they have a very large staff and their free and I assume their venture funded [TS]

  as well as a result of all these things and generally companies that are on that [TS]

  trajectory don't stand in for the long haul their chances are feeling is going [TS]

  to either shut down or we're more likely get bought by somebody and possibly [TS]

  dramatically change the service as a result you know a year or two later or [TS]

  monetize it at some point in the decision is bound to be annoying right [TS]

  so I I'm guessing feeling is gonna is going to explode quickly and then burn [TS]

  out and then news blur feed Wrangler and feed Ben I think are all in it for the [TS]

  long haul and we'll see what happens with that mean and I'm sure it's always [TS]

  gonna be a free option from somebody that gets popular [TS]

  thats feely RA weller dick I don't know I don't know it's gonna be like in the [TS]

  year but I bet this March services that are run by individuals and have [TS]

  sustainable business models will will last long time especially newport has [TS]

  already been around for like four years so obviously like that's a stable [TS]

  product right so we'll see I was pleased to see though that your subscriber [TS]

  numbers didn't plum in by virtue of Google Reader going away and and I think [TS]

  we all kind of figured that would be the case especially for for a site like [TS]

  market or well I think that there was hope at the very least and from [TS] which caters to nerds I think you perhaps are seeing [TS]

  kind of outside of the normal case situation wearing you'll get a lot of [TS]

  subscribers moving to other platforms because we're all nerds I'm curious to [TS]

  hear for something more mainstream say like a CNN or something like that how [TS]

  things change because that's not catering to nerds its catering to normal [TS]

  humans you who may or may not care that's true that's not really true like [TS]

  my wife uses RSS in a very odd indeed in a very different way [TS]

  transitive property of nerdiness his bride anni 90 regular people that use it [TS]

  but your point it's it's very very frequently a nerd that even has any idea [TS]

  what our senses and it's not very regular to see to hear a regular person [TS]

  talk about it I don't know I mean these numbers shirt big you know a guy I feel [TS]

  like RSS is one of the things that I'm sure I'm sure it's much more talked [TS]

  about and maybe more actively used by nerds and certainly of course is the [TS]

  whole class of applications that are powered by powered by our site and that [TS]

  that use it some other way to clipboard and those tend to do way better than [TS]

  anything just use RSS kind of Broadway we use it but even if it's just nerves [TS]

  there's a lot of nerves like I learned this I learned my apps like you know [TS]

  with the magazine I tried to be less nerdy I I tried to broaden past nerds [TS]

  and not only was it harder than I expected but I think that was actually a [TS]

  fatal mistake I think I think it would have done a lot better if I would have [TS]

  just really nail bernhard market massive market and ensure and we are the worst [TS]

  customers in the world because we're picky and were needy and we are entitled [TS]

  and Andrew generally smart and we think we're really smart and so we will tell [TS]

  you how stupid you are for your appt doing certain things are not having a [TS]

  certain things are breaking in a certain way [TS]

  be nerds are really a terrible market to serve however if you are already in it [TS]

  by being a nerd and you are familiar with it and you can appease the nerve [TS]

  market in some small way there sure are a lot of them and I i've always been [TS]

  served very well by serving the market and never tried to break out of it [TS]

  that's what I've had trouble and I can you know I've done it like Instapaper [TS]

  was not was not used by all nerds I mean there were a lot that's my support [TS]

  emails show there were a lot of regular non nerd type people using Instapaper [TS]

  they're probably still are actually I know but you certainly can't go wrong if [TS]

  if if you think something will only appeal of nerds there's still a lot of [TS]

  those and you're probably wrong it will still it'll probably you know one thing [TS]

  that nerds do it just kind of condescending and I do it to you know [TS]

  I've been to this as well is that we we underestimate regular people's skills or [TS]

  desires or abilities and certainly you know there's reasons to sometimes do [TS]

  that like when you're when you're designing an interface or when you're [TS]

  writing the text of a dialog box you want to write it so that it will work no [TS]

  matter how smart or not smart or engage or not engaged the user is and you know [TS]

  you wanna like you know really be inclusive there and assume nothing about [TS]

  the user skills but outside of context like that you know we gotta give people [TS]

  credit and a lot of times I'm very pleasantly surprised by what Niners are [TS]

  able to do especially with some of the crazy crap that knows bill for [TS]

  themselves and we we think no one else is going to use it and then people to [TS]

  use it and I figure I'm always very surprised by that and so I think it's I [TS]

  think we should be careful to not not say like oh this is just for nerds [TS]

  because a lot of times it isn't [TS]

  john Kasay on RSS it's not so much that there's anything inherently about RSS or [TS]

  what it does that is narrowed focus but one of the things that he wrote about [TS]

  like it's because it's an open standard not owned and controlled by a single [TS]

  company that like that these other companies flee from it because Google [TS]

  wants YouTube Google+ and Facebook wants to use Facebook like always companies [TS]

  like alright so the web is great RSS great all these particles that no one [TS]

  owns is great but what if we could do something similar but in a proprietary [TS]

  manner on service that we control the locks people into our platform Baba Baba [TS]

  by the United like they all just want to do all the same things and so you've [TS]

  seen just everything flee from RSS and it's not because people don't want the [TS]

  services provided by Psychology nor do they even need to know what exists if [TS]

  you if companies Andres this the same way they've actually been forced to [TS]

  embrace web browsers and every single device you own came with a first-party [TS]

  built by the vendor essential gotta be awesome news reading application people [TS]

  would love it people love to use it it's not like they don't like to read news [TS]

  but it's because they that they did we didn't get past the critical threshold [TS]

  like we did with the web like look if you blind mice better have a web browser [TS]

  better be good web browser and I don't care that you don't control the web [TS]

  because we'd customers demanded I would never got there with RSS seemed like we [TS]

  were closer Apple's adding RSS teleport's things but if we had gotten [TS]

  their people to spend all day and a great way to consume content on the web [TS]

  like it's not that the news reading itself isn't 30 is that the protocol [TS]

  didn't break through that barrier and now we're kind of [TS]

  successfully marginalized it and are trying to bring us all to their [TS]

  platforms to do all the similar things the thing I was going to say also going [TS]

  back a step is that the the interesting thing about her is that once you hit [TS]

  about age 25 or so [TS]

  more often than not nerds willing to spend some money and they're willing to [TS]

  spend some money on things that make them happy and at least that's the nerds [TS]

  and interact with which granted are all typically Apple users and and you know [TS]

  stereotypes are true for a reason or certified stereotypes for reason and [TS]

  most of my friends and family members have come to realize that you know three [TS]

  for $5 app is the cost of one of marcos beloved Starbucks coffees and so and [TS]

  they last a lot longer so market catering to nerds is is a lucrative are [TS]

  often a lucrative thing because I spend some money on stuff that makes them [TS]

  happy and that's a good thing [TS]

  likely to be gainfully employed as well as I believe their nerdiness translates [TS]

  into some kind of marketable skill right exactly and Sam McGee in the chat is [TS]

  offended that I said it's only the over 25 nerds but that that's just a ballpark [TS]

  some of the younger nerds can also pay for the jailbreak and pirate everything [TS]

  is very true and on that thanks a lot to our to sponsor this week [TS]

  audible and transporter and I'll see you guys next week [TS]

  now this show they didn't even mean to be accidental John [TS]

  Casey [TS]

  and you can be a team Marco [TS]

  and i truly do about titles yet I was saving its like like podcast dessert and [TS]

  get a chance to add my two cents on that market the other big factor in the only [TS]

  talked about at some point bill now that the reason you're going to have an [TS]

  easier time being so much easier to make an application used by people who are [TS]

  like you right because you are a nerd and because you know presumably software [TS]

  developers [TS]

  tendencies yes it's much easier to know market applications written by a nerd [TS]

  who understands what it's like a one-man shop in uniting under in so that's [TS]

  that's also a big factor in the absolutely but you know a lot of times [TS]

  to like you know nerds nerds think of solutions to problems that most people [TS]

  don't even think they have a lot of times they do have that problem and they [TS]

  appreciate the solution once they see it [TS]

  well thats engineering at solving a problem you didn't know you had in a way [TS]

  that you don't understand exactly and so I do think there's there's some value [TS]

  and that's one of the reasons why a lot of nerd stuff does jump the gap into [TS]

  regular people because you know i mean some of the stuff like you know if [TS]

  you're making some kind of web sync service to to synchronize your Twitter [TS]

  posts on to the newest social network so you know you you cross post between [TS]

  Twitter app Dunnet that is a problem that normal people don't have and are [TS]

  unlikely to ever have and so that is gonna be limited really only two nerds [TS]

  look at something like if this than that I have TTT great site great idea [TS]

  almost definitely gonna stay with nerds it solves a whole class of problems and [TS]

  desires that mostly only nerves have but things like Twitter itself you know that [TS]

  was something we started out pretty dirty but it you know it's solved a [TS]

  problem that a lot of people had just at first was only known about by nerds and [TS]

  that's the kind of thing that can break out but nothing to do with a Dropbox API [TS]

  synchronize my direct message read States ought not to use the Twitter [TS]

  official client [TS]

  added that feature but only as my understanding I don't want to use force [TS]

  and they didn't actually make an API for that it right so then it's like will [TS]

  find you know if I use Twitterrific on both platforms and they both talked to [TS]

  Dropbox thing like it they could also use like Lockheed value storage that's [TS]

  not cross platform and a size limitations so just you know you really [TS]

  easy to do with the Dropbox data storage you just you know you have an identifier [TS]

  for the message just our big list of them if it's fast and efficient you know [TS]

  go to town so with regard to titles I don't think I care but I would recommend [TS]

  something that relates to Dropbox and that's something that relates to watch [TS]

  that would be but I'm pretty bored of i watch already even though we don't know [TS]

  about it yet even if it's a video or anything about like I'm I'm bored of the [TS]

  board of everyone including us [TS]

  speculating about it just because like it like we just we have said we have [TS]

  nothing to work on and it could be something really cool that's really [TS]

  unlikely and the most likely thing is gonna be is really boring i just i just [TS]

  I'm so burned out we were talking about it and I get that includes us and me [TS]

  like you know I say this with full supposition that we just talked about it [TS]

  for 25 minutes earlier but it's just so I don't know you have nothing to work on [TS]

  a reinvigorated when it's not a watch but it's actually a necklace or perhaps [TS]

  hearing then I cannot wait to hear the story of market getting his ear pierced [TS]

  in order to wear the eye earring the Apple tongue stud the sensors think [TS]

  again they're uncomfortable so in random other news since Marco came and his [TS]

  family came to visit this weekend I've seen his new app the avenue under the [TS]

  practice there on the practice new practice new one [TS]

  yeah I'm just trolling the chat room right now because they were begging for [TS]

  information about it well you know david smith's ought to [TS]

  awaiting approval it is it is officially shipped to Apple but it's awaiting [TS]

  approval it's been it's been about eight days so it's not totally unreasonable I [TS]

  I can tell from my nap stream analytics I'm trying to be the first time here [TS]

  sponsor of my sight disclosure I can tell from their analytics that there [TS]

  have not been any any new launches of the app since I submitted it so as far [TS]

  as I can tell it's not like you know hitting something wall that somebody has [TS]

  to ask someone about like it just waiting in the queue so we will see its [TS]

  interesting I know it's crazy rollercoaster like last year it was like [TS]

  it was like it was like 45 it was ridiculous as at least Iowa is fairly [TS]

  consistent [TS]

  iOS is pretty much always six to eight days it's very very rarely outside of [TS]

  those bounds and when it is so we will see but yeah I mean I'm just waiting to [TS]

  be proven that I actually just a researcher at work on the other big ass [TS]

  it'll be out this fall I hope it's why I've decided that I'm going to require [TS]

  iOS 7 for the new one but the question is when do you release that you know [TS]

  obviously it's great to get out there early but the earlier you get out there [TS]

  are fewer people can actually get and the more you're competing for the four [TS]

  press attention and Apple features a few trying it out there like the week of [TS]

  Iowa 7 I think about on launch definitely 1900 the downsides but the [TS]

  down sides have nothing to do with the number of sales and everything to like [TS]

  people get I was 7 device they're gonna want to put applications on it [TS]

  show off Iowa sovereign that are sort of Iowa savvy to use the old system 7 term [TS]

  and we want you to be one of those things because thats I think that's a [TS]

  big foot in the door if you think about all the people who were like that on day [TS]

  one [TS]

  iPad our day one on the iPhone App Store I think it's a huge advantage that might [TS]

  work [TS]

  yeah I mean it's a nightmare scramble to do that right you end up shipping [TS]

  something that does not anticipate that you would want to ship but I still think [TS]

  like you're going to work on the application is going to improve even if [TS]

  that first version as a people just gonna go through like I just wanna buy [TS]

  like like an iPad launch I've got a new iPad which applications are iPad savvy [TS]

  put them on here I really do wonder also though how many people are going to hold [TS]

  off upgrading 17 because it is so different and certainly there's gonna be [TS]

  a lot of backlash launches people who want things back the old way and and so [TS]

  Am I wonder like I don't think it's going to be a big delay for people but I [TS]

  bet there will be something like you know every every time there's a new [TS]

  iPhone 4 iOS least especially new iPhone release every time there's some kind of [TS]

  stupid Consumer Reports scandal about some part of it that everyone doesn't [TS]

  like and I think it's gonna be 17 that's gonna be like the Big Apple scandal is [TS]

  like oh my god nobody likes Iowa 701 figure out how to use it even though [TS]

  it's like a minute to get used to it all the the five million people who buy the [TS]

  iPhone 5s holiday season right now we're going to have to be stuck with my [TS]

  obligation I am here to talk about apples fall line-up let's save that for [TS]

  next show is coming and possibly call the same month if I were you john I [TS]

  would maybe get your review done for September [TS]

  member you know maybe he gave up on all your other podcasts and actually worked [TS]

  on my job [TS]

  takes time away I'm done so to continue darting around between topics ice [TS]

  vehicles from a sixteen year old perspectives from a sixteen year old [TS]

  perspective most kids seem to like it except for the UI change the main change [TS]

  and there are very few that don't like it so what is there one would like that [TS]

  isn't the UI change is no normal 16 year old has any idea what the hell 16 year [TS]

  olds don't write articles it's grumpy old men who read our own change and [TS]

  everything low of change my blog but I don't know hopefully we're getting [TS]

  through the backlash now and by the time it ships have like brownies to you what [TS]

  do you want to pick a time when I do like with john mentioned in passing the [TS]

  transitive property of nerdiness set to launch like it I do like that as well [TS]

  you should google that to make sure you have the right word about googling [TS]

  embarrassing questions and much better to Google the answers are pretty sure [TS]

  that's correct I'm pretty sure it's correct to me this is exactly everything [TS]

  yeah I'm almost 100% certain that correct and yet I double check that's [TS]

  why writings vigor view takes forever everything I think I right in there like [TS]

  you know five-minute diversion to check some facts 99.9% sure is correct that [TS]

  you have to prove it before you can go on and have you ever been wrong about [TS]

  anything and that's what kills me you know the one fact that I didn't check [TS]

  that I got wrong you know that name in his machine to release that they did [TS]

  this thing or the prices are $5 because I didn't check because I was just going [TS]

  by memory and it just kills me here here's the problem John here's the [TS]

  problem you have is that that retina MacBook Pro Shop Geek bench few days ago [TS]

  was running Mavericks you see why it's a problem [TS]

  I try to be ready by the first day of fall the middle or end of the first day [TS]

  of fall I'm thinking we have two big events we have an iOS event and we have [TS]

  a Mac event I'm thinking those are separate offense the IAS event happens [TS]

  later more like the November because I was 7 needs a lot of time seven is [TS]

  nowhere near done however I'm thinking that the Mac event might happen as early [TS]

  as September and that Mavericks comes out then along with the Mac Pro new [TS]

  Retina MacBook Pros and maybe an iMac refresh the Mac Pro just like well the [TS]

  retina screens are ready so the Mac Pro will have more to say about that later [TS]

  in the year give back to the old they can't resist like you know it's gonna [TS]

  get out in the fall [TS]

  December 19th 2010 like like they're holding in a crowd we all hope their [TS]

  holy in with some some understood so they're not that it's like you know what [TS]

  screw the macro without 2012 anyway gotta hire all Americans while the Mac [TS]

  Pro right now the can't release it now because Intel doesn't have the CPUs yet [TS]

  presumably in volume [TS]

  the official delivery date of the CPUs September and at the same delivery date [TS]

  for many of the parts in volume I believe I'm not sure on that part but [TS]

  you know obviously they're holding back the retina MacBook Pro for Mac Pro also [TS]

  a story to Mavericks all these new Macs have to wait for Mavericks like they're [TS]

  not going to bother you not gonna bother getting them correctly with with [TS]

  mountain lion cause there's no big rush enact pro-life people waited so long [TS]

  already what's the big deal and same thing with the with the redness but that [TS]

  also means there were probably not talking November here we're probably [TS]

  talking September planning on it I'm trying to get well october's after [TS]

  September last I checked her now begins the wild card is maybe a mad scramble [TS]

  for I was seven which is do or die that it put everybody off everything is like [TS]

  and then you know and then go back to what you were doing in a versatile a [TS]

  just peace because everyone everyone was pulled off to work on iOS them because [TS]

  they have like that is far from done and they have to get that done well honestly [TS]

  I think they're just gonna ship whatever the hell they have you know in in [TS]

  mid-november whatever is like they're gonna ship it . whatever they have at [TS]

  that point you can do that with iOS 6 and five where they just cut off [TS]

  features but like they can have a disaster everyone gets their phones on [TS]

  Christmas morning and have some fatal bugs like they just can't have that [TS]

  problem so they have to they have to ship what they have but they also to [TS]

  make sure that what they have is stable like does not have any fatal flaws and [TS]

  it's really hard to do when you're making him its rambling well they're [TS]

  already almost at that point the like like a bit between betas 2012 2013 and [TS]

  is already a significant reduction and reboots and reduction reboots is not [TS]

  well with three I haven't seen one with two hours about one today with three [TS]

  haven't seen any yet few days so far but I think something like so many things I [TS]

  know I'm most of the bugs there remain in iOS 7 right now are just like minor [TS]

  UI problems like this label disappears or the you know the status bar peers [TS]

  rotated in the wrong way on the screen like it's it's minor UI quirks that yeah [TS]

  they suck and they're definitely bugs but that's you know if they ship with [TS]

  that it wouldn't be the end of the world crashes and reboots and no failure to do [TS]

  some essential function like convey text messages or synchronized something [TS]

  you're getting mailer I mean I I have no doubts that he'll be able to get [TS]

  something out there that is stable and doesn't have major bugs like that by [TS]

  November I suspect that 7.0 is going to have still some weird little edge case [TS]

  you are bugs because there are so many new you eyes and so many of them are [TS]

  not quite yet but the night the kernel is fine I'm sure like springboard will [TS]

  be pretty much fine you know all the really important stuff the the common [TS]

  stuff the underlying stuff that ought to be fine by November it's already almost [TS]

  fine now one plus I mean everything I've read on Twitter says the Mavericks is [TS]

  good to go immediately you know they're ready so even if there's a grant which [TS]

  means John you wouldn't say that when I come back to my Mavericks laptop that is [TS]

  after a night to sleep sleep I go to bed and come down in the morning and the [TS]

  thing usually awake fans on but totally hard so maybe maybe it's not anything [TS]

  ready [TS]