00:00:00 ◼ ► chance miller is good to see you at wwdc a couple weeks ago we ran into each other a couple times
00:00:05 ◼ ► state of the union and then we both got shuttled off on our separate golf carts right afterwards
00:00:11 ◼ ► no opportunity just to sit there and chat no but we could talk about that later we've got some
00:00:25 ◼ ► of breaking news items i want to i want to talk about let's lead with the trademark dispute
00:00:31 ◼ ► and i'm laughing yeah between io and io and i just this morning before we recorded blogged
00:00:42 ◼ ► on daring fireball perhaps i'm not paying close enough attention but this is the first i've heard
00:00:47 ◼ ► of i yo the two names certainly the two names certainly sound alike but they don't look alike
00:00:54 ◼ ► are homophones trademarkable question mark and then i left it there and a friend of mine said
00:00:59 ◼ ► you know your wife is a lawyer so i went and asked but she's not her expertise is not in trademark law
00:01:05 ◼ ► she she was a criminal lawyer but she did say that that if this is a surprise to open ai and love from
00:01:13 ◼ ► that they're it's they've been criminally underrepresented yeah and so i added i would expect
00:01:20 ◼ ► a terse letter from coca-cola's lawyers if i tried selling coke under the name k-o-k-e but i'm i'm laughing
00:01:29 ◼ ► because as i podcast i realize just how similar i o and i y o are when you say i o and i yo yeah
00:01:42 ◼ ► you can't it's not easy to discern the difference there and like you i had never heard of i y o until
00:01:50 ◼ ► i saw this news last night yeah and i couldn't even tell you what i y o duh it's a voice ai audio
00:01:57 ◼ ► computer yeah so i think that's part of the problem it is like an ai hardware product right so the verge
00:02:03 ◼ ► says they're a spinoff from google's moonshot unit and i think that's got to contribute to
00:02:11 ◼ ► sort of the animosity i mean i you know even if it was three guys in a garage and not a spinoff from
00:02:17 ◼ ► google maybe they would feel threatened because here here's their description from i yo dot audio
00:02:25 ◼ ► i yo one is a revolutionary new kind of computer without a screen it can run apps just like your
00:02:34 ◼ ► smartphone the key difference is you talk to it through a natural language interface so we don't
00:02:40 ◼ ► know what the love from io is making except that that description of the i yo one does sound like a lot
00:02:51 ◼ ► like what people's guess is yeah i i mean i can't help but laugh i mean all of these hardware
00:03:00 ◼ ► ai products at least right now that you could read me the description of almost all of them and i
00:03:05 ◼ ► wouldn't be able to tell you who made which one because they're all some sort of like egg circle
00:03:09 ◼ ► shaped thing mostly without a screen with microphones that listen to you all the time there's not enough
00:03:15 ◼ ► differentiation on the hardware side of things yet to know which is which and to know if anybody wants
00:03:21 ◼ ► the sam altman johnny ive thing comes out would be able to differentiate between i yo and io i just
00:03:27 ◼ ► sent you a screenshot i don't know maybe we'll put it in the album art here so people can can see it
00:03:33 ◼ ► on the podcast but on their website in terms of how do you capitalize i yo oh yeah in in the header
00:03:41 ◼ ► in the header up top they have a lowercase i a lowercase y and a capital o over on the sidebar for the
00:03:50 ◼ ► overview they capitalize the leading i lowercase the y uppercase the o and then in the body text
00:03:59 ◼ ► it's all lowercase all three letters are lowercase and i noticed on their takedown page open ai
00:04:06 ◼ ► capitalized it one way and then the verge uppercased it a different way now i see that maybe it's not
00:04:13 ◼ ► sloppiness on their part i don't think io themselves knows how they want to uppercase it if you scroll down
00:04:20 ◼ ► further down the page there's a another section and it's capital i capital y capital o capital o
00:04:26 ◼ ► every permutation possible of capitalization is somewhere on this page every it really is it you
00:04:33 ◼ ► just keep scrolling it it just keeps being uppercase differently maybe that maybe that's something they
00:04:38 ◼ ► can use in trademark court yeah um it's kind of embarrassing though really i dread anything like this
00:04:47 ◼ ► i remember when we launched vesper we we did some kind of name search and i think we did file a
00:04:54 ◼ ► trademark to get a trademark on a note-taking app but after we launched i spent like the first month
00:05:00 ◼ ► just nervously wringing my hands every morning looking at my email thinking is there going to be
00:05:05 ◼ ► something from somebody saying this is a trademark violation i hate this sort of stuff but i can't help
00:05:12 ◼ ► i think i don't know it seems like the sort of thing when you work at apple or a big enough company it's
00:05:20 ◼ ► nice because you've got like a veritable army of lawyers and you just bluster right through
00:05:26 ◼ ► remember the whole thing before the launch of the iphone there was rampant speculation that apple was
00:05:34 ◼ ► about to announce a phone but nobody really knew what it was and it compared to today and how much
00:05:40 ◼ ► stuff leaks out of apple all we knew is that it was going to be a phone and it was just sort of
00:05:46 ◼ ► deafening silence though on what it was but people were speculating because at the time they'd name
00:05:54 ◼ ► everything i whatever that they would call it iphone and everybody was like yeah they can't call it iphone
00:05:59 ◼ ► cisco has a trademark on that and during the the keynote introduction when after steve jobs introduced
00:06:06 ◼ ► it he says and we're calling it iphone that's right and it's like i don't know what they did before the
00:06:15 ◼ ► announcement with cisco i don't know what i've never heard the backstory on that like did they reach out
00:06:20 ◼ ► or they're just like screw it we're gonna call it iphone we'll we'll deal with cisco after i don't
00:06:24 ◼ ► know but they just blustered straight through that brick wall like kool-aid man well it's 2025 and
00:06:31 ◼ ► apple is still battling some sort of trademark thing about iphone in brazil i think yeah where
00:06:37 ◼ ► a company igb electronica filed for an iphone trademark in 2000 and was granted it in 2008
00:06:45 ◼ ► so a year after apple's iphone came out and then i guess this is what last month a federal court ruled
00:06:53 ◼ ► in favor of igb electronica in a unanimous decision so that battle is not over apparently at least in
00:07:01 ◼ ► brazil which is just says so much of what you need to know about this trademark system yeah yeah that
00:07:08 ◼ ► it's global you have to fight each of these battles independently but from an open ai standpoint too the
00:07:14 ◼ ► the fact that a the fact that they let this slip through and didn't consider that there is another
00:07:19 ◼ ► ai hardware product with a very similar name and b then the way that i found out about this news
00:07:26 ◼ ► yesterday was first people speculating that the deal between open ai and johnny if had been scrapped
00:07:32 ◼ ► right open i didn't seem to be proactive in saying here is why we removed the blog post here is why we
00:07:39 ◼ ► removed all references to the deal it was kind of people thought the deal was scrapped and then open ai
00:07:43 ◼ ► community open ai comms came and it's like no no no no it's because of this the deal is still very much
00:07:49 ◼ ► on so they kind of screwed both sides of that yeah it was yeah it was a i was because it was a sunday i
00:07:57 ◼ ► was sort of offline or trying to be offline but i caught wind of sort of the tail end of the speculation
00:08:06 ◼ ► that hey maybe the whole deal fell apart because every reference to it has been disappeared without
00:08:11 ◼ ► explanation you know it was like a 404 instead of a terse explanation so that it wasn't hand
00:08:18 ◼ ► that that yeah the takedown of it doing it on a sunday all of it seemed handled very poorly it should
00:08:24 ◼ ► have i don't know but i mean it's water under the bridge i guess i mean yeah you know within two hours
00:08:30 ◼ ► everybody figured it out but it is kind of i don't know what's the word ignominious it just is very
00:08:36 ◼ ► very very strange and it's unclear what they're going to do because i have to say i mean again i'm
00:08:43 ◼ ► not a trademark lawyer but it does seem i don't know like i mean it's not just a company called i
00:08:48 ◼ ► yo they they literally make an ai talk to it device so i don't know they may they may be in trouble here
00:08:54 ◼ ► uh speaking of legal stuff it just reminds me this is sort of a tangent and you know it contradicts my
00:09:01 ◼ ► statement that apple can bluster its way through any kind of legal dispute is the ongoing what's
00:09:07 ◼ ► international trade court thing with the apple watch and the blood oxygen sensor in the u.s which
00:09:14 ◼ ► i think is heading towards year two at this point right like the entire the actual case is heading
00:09:21 ◼ ► towards like god only knows like year five or six but it's coming up on it would be two years this
00:09:27 ◼ ► december that the blood oxygen sensor has not been available on the apple watch in the united states
00:09:33 ◼ ► right which when this case began i don't think anybody i certainly didn't expect it to go on this
00:09:40 ◼ ► long i didn't expect it to ever be removed i thought they'd make a midnight deal the biden administration
00:09:45 ◼ ► would step in and veto it just like obama did in the samsung case in 2008 or whatever but no
00:09:50 ◼ ► 18 months at this point yeah and then there was a thing where the founder the company that holds the
00:09:59 ◼ ► the patent on this is massimo and massim massim yeah something like that well m-a-s-s-i-m-o massimo
00:10:07 ◼ ► massimo and there was some kind of internal dispute where the board threw out the founder and ceo and i just
00:10:15 ◼ ► spitballing thought i don't know maybe that's what it will take to settle this and maybe that's even
00:10:21 ◼ ► the reason maybe the board is looking i mean because again i've never heard of massimo i mean i know they
00:10:27 ◼ ► make some kind of dedicated blood oxygen sensor devices but i would imagine that some sort of
00:10:33 ◼ ► settlement that's not a lot of money to apple might be a significant amount of apple to them
00:10:44 ◼ ► who's the founder is just such a zealot for the righteousness of the cause of his invention or his
00:10:52 ◼ ► company's invention that the money doesn't matter to him he he wants to be proven correct and that the
00:10:58 ◼ ► board is like uh let's take the money and run but they got rid of him and still no difference and it's very
00:11:03 ◼ ► very strange like so with the series nine watches from 2023 you could there were a couple of months
00:11:12 ◼ ► where you could buy them and i guess you could buy them up until christmas like somehow apple negotiate
00:11:17 ◼ ► right that was a big deal yeah where and they announced that it was like i don't know it was
00:11:23 ◼ ► like christmas eve or something i it was like very very close to christmas like but they were like if
00:11:28 ◼ ► you buy your apple watch in the u.s before december 23rd or maybe the 24th yep you'll get the blood
00:11:35 ◼ ► oxygen feature and if you buy it after you won't and the series 10 watches and like the black ultra 2
00:11:43 ◼ ► from last year have never had the feature in the u.s nope i mean my interpretation is that they still have
00:11:49 ◼ ► the hardware to enable the feature but software it's disabled yep so yeah theoretically anytime
00:11:56 ◼ ► it can flip the switch but it's very funny have you ever asked apple pr about that about whether the
00:12:02 ◼ ► hardware is in the watch i have they don't say they won't they won't acknowledge they won't acknowledge
00:12:08 ◼ ► the existence of this ongoing case at this point no it was christmas of 23 because i remember i was
00:12:18 ◼ ► working very closely with apple pr on that stuff because it was such a big story right and we were like
00:12:24 ◼ ► me and my wife were going to her family's for christmas eve and i was like i got to bring my
00:12:27 ◼ ► laptop i don't i don't think is biden gonna veto is apple gonna settle is something gonna happen it was
00:12:32 ◼ ► hilarious that it all fell during that important shopping season and that somehow they timed it to not
00:12:38 ◼ ► to not miss out on those days of sales yeah i it's and it's i don't know i just never would have
00:12:47 ◼ ► predicted that we'd be in the start of summer 2025 and it would still be ongoing it's very strange but
00:12:53 ◼ ► when i've asked apple about it in person or in email it is the non-answer of non-answers whether
00:13:00 ◼ ► the hardware's there i think it's almost certain that it is i'm sure like i fix it or somebody would
00:13:07 ◼ ► take it i mean there's no reason not to right it doesn't even make any sense i'm sure it's not
00:13:11 ◼ ► a super expensive component and they would if they settle of course they'd want to enable it instantly for
00:13:35 ◼ ► somebody you know a hundred listeners were going to say apple doesn't win every case look at the blood
00:13:40 ◼ ► oxygen thing but there we go the apple watch has been a point of legal trouble for them for a lot
00:13:46 ◼ ► of reasons and patents and stuff because there was also the alive core case which is another
00:13:50 ◼ ► health startup of some sort and that dispute was over the heart monitoring features in the apple watch
00:13:57 ◼ ► and apple won that case but i've always wondered in the back of my mind if they had lost that case the
00:14:03 ◼ ► heart monitoring features of the apple watch are so important magnitudes more important than the
00:14:09 ◼ ► blood oxygen sensor in the apple watch surely they would have just had to pony up whatever a live
00:14:14 ◼ ► court wanted yeah they would have had to just license the patents or something yeah well i'm glad i'm not a
00:14:20 ◼ ► lawyer the other breaking news story sort of i guess it's from over the weekend but there was this bizarre
00:14:27 ◼ ► very strange story where apple launched a convince your parents to get you a mac short film and online
00:14:35 ◼ ► promotion you know and then the big prominent web page you know it makes sense kids are graduate high
00:14:43 ◼ ► school seniors are graduating i'm sure it's a common i guess most of them have already graduated but it's
00:14:49 ◼ ► june it's time to get going off to college laptops so they launched a campaign with a seven and a
00:14:56 ◼ ► half minute short film starring martin hero hero hereley he from uh early he i don't know how you
00:15:02 ◼ ► pronounce his name no idea from saturnate lives please don't destroy trio who makes the digital short
00:15:10 ◼ ► films they launched it and a day later they again sort of like io just took it down swept it under the rug
00:15:19 ◼ ► very strange i've seen very mixed reactions to the video i mean it is very out of character for apple to
00:15:28 ◼ ► release something so it's kind of deadpan and kind of it's i can't i've been struggling with how to
00:15:35 ◼ ► describe and i've seen people describe it as cringy and it is cringy to a degree but that's the point
00:15:40 ◼ ► it's not cringy in a bad way right it's like deliberately oh yeah and i watched it as soon as
00:15:47 ◼ ► it came out and i thought it was fine i mean it's not the funniest thing you'll ever watch but i thought
00:15:53 ◼ ► it was funny to see an apple marketing campaign in such a different light than what we usually see
00:15:57 ◼ ► yeah yeah i mean i like i don't think it's funny and i think that that's a problem because it's supposed
00:16:05 ◼ ► to be funny yeah but unlike the ipad ad where intimately where they put a bunch of musical
00:16:14 ◼ ► instruments and artistic materials into a i don't know a compressor compactor yeah and crushed it all
00:16:22 ◼ ► down crushed it all down and out came a super thin ipad pro and people were and i thought that the
00:16:30 ◼ ► reaction to that was overblown to be honest i'm pretty sure i'm taking a consistent stance two years
00:16:36 ◼ ► later that they weren't being disrespectful to those things i i think i think the outrage surrounding
00:16:46 ◼ ► that ad was performative but i also think the timing yeah i think that i don't think it was a great
00:16:53 ◼ ► problem yeah but they wound up pulling the ad and then tour merv hold i forget how you pronounce his
00:17:02 ◼ ► myron i think myron yeah myron tour i'll just call him by his first name he's the head of marketing
00:17:09 ◼ ► communications at apple and issued an apology that uh not not groveling but just sort of hey we missed
00:17:17 ◼ ► the mark on this one sorry about that still kind of weird you know for a company that most people would
00:17:23 ◼ ► hold up as one of the best advertising companies in the history or at least in recent decades sort of
00:17:31 ◼ ► weird by my account the convince your parents to buy you a mac ad is the fourth thing they've had to pull
00:17:37 ◼ ► in the last year there was what else was there there was the crushed one with the ipad there was one
00:17:43 ◼ ► that was part of their it's called underdogs series which is like apple at work kind of like apple
00:17:48 ◼ ► enterprise type thing and that was pulled because people said they were misrepresenting thailand i
00:17:55 ◼ ► think and kind of portraying thailand as being underdeveloped and behind the times right and that got an
00:18:01 ◼ ► official apology from apple too yeah which was rare then there was oh and of course the apple
00:18:07 ◼ ► intelligence ones for personal siri and siri and app actions and all that good stuff yeah yeah so i
00:18:15 ◼ ► forgot about that i knew there was something some kind of undercurrent of a bunch of retracted ads or
00:18:21 ◼ ► pulled ads yeah and i i can't believe the ai one in particular didn't pop into mind i guess that's it's
00:18:27 ◼ ► like such a separate issue that it's almost like a different class you know it's funny though thinking
00:18:32 ◼ ► about the ai ads the one that obviously is getting the most attention and is actually the subject of
00:18:38 ◼ ► the false advertising suit is the one ad where bella ramsey is shown using the siri personalized
00:18:48 ◼ ► knowledge feature that had to be postponed a full year back in march where she says hey what was the
00:18:55 ◼ ► who was the guy i went to the cafe with three months ago and siri pulls it up and says that was zach
00:19:01 ◼ ► and she's like oh yeah zach i remember the one that i didn't like was also with bella ramsey was the
00:19:07 ◼ ► one where she has a meeting with like i don't know who it's supposed to be but it's somebody and and
00:19:15 ◼ ► they're like did you read the script do you remember this one yeah and she obviously hasn't she's having
00:19:21 ◼ ► a meeting where they're supposed to talk about a script that bella ramsey is supposed to have read and
00:19:26 ◼ ► she hasn't read it and she goes to her sitting at a table in a restaurant goes to her phone and it gets
00:19:35 ◼ ► gets the the email pulls it up an email and then hits like a summarize button and then reads the summary
00:19:42 ◼ ► from apple intelligence and then talks to this woman about the script that ad bugs me in a couple of
00:19:50 ◼ ► ways because at the first level it it's really it's rude to have a meeting where you're supposed
00:19:57 ◼ ► to have read a script or read whatever and then you show up and you didn't do it like that's just rude
00:20:04 ◼ ► and at the second level it's preposterous like it's and it's not played for laughs it's played straight
00:20:13 ◼ ► it's played like hey this is a great feature on your phone you can get a summary of a thing that you
00:20:19 ◼ ► if you're heading into a meeting and haven't read it you can get a summary and fake your way through it
00:20:43 ◼ ► for like 30 seconds get a summary and then you turn back to me go oh yeah yeah yeah that's the
00:20:50 ◼ ► one about the uh the whatever the article is about yeah i actually never read the something rotten in
00:20:56 ◼ ► cupertino post i just summarized it all but the summary was good but it's even if you draw up the
00:21:03 ◼ ► the siri apple intelligence summary it still takes you know i don't know 30 seconds to like tap around
00:21:09 ◼ ► like you're not fooling the person that you read the script there's no it it you know it's it's like
00:21:16 ◼ ► got the the the logic of an episode of gilligan's island it doesn't really hold up you're it's like
00:21:23 ◼ ► being in college and you're cramming for a test five seconds before the test starts it's the same vibe
00:21:29 ◼ ► as that except rude and not just underprepared yes exactly right your professors aren't really
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00:23:47 ◼ ► so wwdc in the in the tank it always takes me a while to decompress it's always such a busy week
00:23:55 ◼ ► and i i didn't really write my take on it till last week but i think overall i think it was very
00:24:02 ◼ ► successful for apple i think it was sort of a return to form what was your high level takeaway
00:24:08 ◼ ► i had the same takeaway where especially they were wrapping up at hour 28 hour 29 is this really going
00:24:15 ◼ ► to be a tight one hour 30 minute 90 minute keynote and it was and i think that was a excellent return
00:24:21 ◼ ► to form and i think the apple intelligence strategy where like you and neil and joanne talked about
00:24:27 ◼ ► after the show where they touched on the big picture of apple intelligence in like that first
00:24:32 ◼ ► four or five minutes they said the features that haven't shipped are still coming and then we just
00:24:37 ◼ ► dove into this platform by platform breakdown of all the new features on each platform and the apple
00:24:43 ◼ ► intelligence touches on each platform because i just found that 40 minute segment on apple intelligence
00:24:56 ◼ ► very just it felt like it was inserted into the rest of the keynote it wasn't cohesive from
00:25:02 ◼ ► from start to finish and i think the biggest high level takeaway you can have from this year's wwdc is
00:25:15 ◼ ► transcription summaries of all features yeah is available in the first betas and i'm sure you
00:25:21 ◼ ► had briefings and whatnot where they would say that and it was clearly like they'd crack a little smile
00:25:26 ◼ ► it'd be a wink wink like yes it's available in the first beta you can go try it like they took it on
00:25:31 ◼ ► the nose yeah and i was told i think maybe with extra emphasis to me personally that uh that that
00:25:40 ◼ ► everything that was announced in the keynote they expect to ship in the fall and i don't know in the
00:25:47 ◼ ► fall doesn't mean the dot o's especially for ios because ios's hand is always forced by the early
00:25:54 ◼ ► september announcement of the new iphones so it could be a dot one but i i don't think anybody's gonna
00:26:00 ◼ ► complain about that and i i think that's one of the weirder things about their pre-announcement
00:26:09 ◼ ► of everything last year and i definitely wrote about it in the something is rotten piece it just
00:26:17 ◼ ► did it does not make sense to me why they pre-announced those features if they weren't a hundred percent
00:26:25 ◼ ► sure that they could ship them and there's no reason to think that they should have been a hundred
00:26:30 ◼ ► percent sure at the time because why not just wait a couple more months and unveil them you have the
00:26:37 ◼ ► iphone event where if given three more months of work it's like yeah we're we're we're getting
00:26:42 ◼ ► closer we're going to be able to to ship this early next year announce those features then and then you've
00:26:48 ◼ ► got like an amazing surprise ai feature to unveil alongside the iphones and if you didn't make if apple
00:26:57 ◼ ► didn't make sufficient progress well then they dodged a bullet and they never announced it so i think
00:27:02 ◼ ► focusing on i and i the other thing i wrote in my piece is engineering wise i think they have done
00:27:09 ◼ ► and it's been proven very successful in the last i think they've been moving this direction under
00:27:18 ◼ ► federigi for 15 years or close to 15 years but i think in the last five years five or so years in
00:27:26 ◼ ► particular they've really made an effort to break some features off for later in the annual cycle
00:27:36 ◼ ► for the dot three dot four releases that come after new year's and i think for engineering that's proven
00:27:43 ◼ ► to be very i think that's proven to be very successful and i think their marketing could follow that as well
00:27:50 ◼ ► and hold some features that maybe they have planned for the os 26 cycle and announce them in the fall
00:27:58 ◼ ► hey surprise guess what's coming to all of our platforms yeah soon you know we're ready to show
00:28:04 ◼ ► it to you now and it's coming soon and then maybe that week they drop the betas that have the feature so
00:28:09 ◼ ► people who use the betas can start using them but have some new features to show in the fall and i think
00:28:15 ◼ ► that's sort of a return to steve jobs's strategy and i heard from numerous people mostly x apple
00:28:21 ◼ ► after my something was rotten piece people you know not people who left on bad terms people who like
00:28:27 ◼ ► retired people who worked under steve and several people mentioned this exact same point which is that
00:28:34 ◼ ► steve jobs obsessed over constantly having something to announce every two or three months that every two
00:28:44 ◼ ► or three months there would be something and if you look back at a lot of apple's announcements
00:28:49 ◼ ► in the steve jobs era it was often the case where sometimes it would be a hardware event like new
00:28:59 ◼ ► macbooks or if you go back far enough powerbooks or ibooks or whatever and they would show some software
00:29:05 ◼ ► that maybe wasn't fully baked you know that was sort of in a rough state but he wanted to show it
00:29:11 ◼ ► or if it was a software event they would announce sometimes they would announce hardware
00:29:16 ◼ ► like new laptops but they wouldn't be on sale for another month or six weeks or something
00:29:21 ◼ ► they don't do that anymore they don't they don't unveil hardware and say it's it's coming in six weeks or
00:29:27 ◼ ► eight weeks or something like that but he would do that just because he'd want to have a little of
00:29:32 ◼ ► everything to show every two or three months and i think that you know wwdc is obviously a huge strategic
00:29:39 ◼ ► annual almost like a holiday for apple and i get it that it makes sense and they run on a very very
00:29:47 ◼ ► annual the whole company runs on this annual cycle across the board hardware and software now
00:29:53 ◼ ► and it's good to sort of set the annual agenda but i think the idea that everything has to be in it
00:29:59 ◼ ► is kind of crazy because i think trying to predict where you're going to be eight nine months from now
00:30:04 ◼ ► is too unpredictable and i think one thing people have forgotten in apple's failure to ship the sear the
00:30:11 ◼ ► dingus stuff last year was that this was a strategy they'd been employing for years before where they would
00:30:17 ◼ ► announce everything at wwdc and the features that weren't available would be coming later this year in a
00:30:22 ◼ ► right those features would never really get re-promoted or re-advertised when 0.1 0.2 0.3
00:30:30 ◼ ► actually shipped right what would happen is the first beta of ios 18.1 would or ios 17.1 would come
00:30:37 ◼ ► out and the onus is almost on like us as the press and us as the people running the betas to put it on
00:30:43 ◼ ► our phones and be like okay this update enables feature x y and z that was announced at wwdc
00:30:48 ◼ ► it was very much drop everything at wwdc and then release the betas and coast till the next wwdc and
00:30:56 ◼ ► leave it up to nine to five mac and the users to find the new features it's very true so i i think
00:31:04 ◼ ► overall it was a very strong wwdc and i definitely think especially after seeing this keynote and it was
00:31:11 ◼ ► tight it was shorter than usual right it was only like 87 minutes i think and even putting aside
00:31:18 ◼ ► the four minutes of features or however i think i think when federighi was talking to joanna stern
00:31:25 ◼ ► he tried to downplay the postponed siri features by emphasizing how few minutes in a hundred out of a
00:31:33 ◼ ► hundred minute keynote they took which really is kind of like come on you know it's like saying
00:31:40 ◼ ► they only showed the death star blowing up for 30 seconds in star wars it wasn't really it wasn't a
00:31:45 ◼ ► big deal it's like come on it was you know not every minute of a keynote is equal weight to the
00:31:50 ◼ ► others and that was sort of a major plot point in last year's keynote but the thing that really stuck
00:31:55 ◼ ► out to me just thinking about it in that context of hey there was a whole 40 minute segment last year
00:32:01 ◼ ► on apple intelligence and it hadn't really occurred to me until this year and the way they announced new
00:32:08 ◼ ► apple intelligence features that doing it all in one block also was weird last year so even putting
00:32:15 ◼ ► aside the fact that some of the biggest features didn't even ship and had to be postponed an extra
00:32:20 ◼ ► year even putting that aside treating it like it was a platform that gets its own segment of the
00:32:28 ◼ ► keynote just was stilted and unnatural to me and the way they did it this year where it's like as they're
00:32:34 ◼ ► talking about products these new ai features would bubble up naturally you know so when they're talking
00:32:41 ◼ ► about ios they talked about the feature where it answers the phone for you call screening the uh the
00:32:49 ◼ ► very clever which i know is catch up to something that android some android phones have been doing i know
00:32:53 ◼ ► the pixels have been doing it for quite a few years but still i mean credit to google and android for
00:32:59 ◼ ► being first but it's sounds like a great feature and i think new i think it's original what are they
00:33:05 ◼ ► calling it the hold assist hold assist yeah yeah where it uses ai to detect hold music and then offers to
00:33:13 ◼ ► let you put the phone app in the background and it'll buzz you when somebody actually answers on the other
00:33:20 ◼ ► end that sounds very cool that was one of the best features i think that they announced but it's like
00:33:25 ◼ ► that's one of the things where it's going to be a cat and mouse game eventually you're going to have
00:33:30 ◼ ► the person on the other end right have a robot voice come on and says we're ready to take your call
00:33:34 ◼ ► you pick up the phone and then the music starts playing again then you put the phone back and then
00:33:38 ◼ ► siri says you're good now it's just back and it's robots talking to robots but in the year it takes for
00:33:44 ◼ ► those call centers and stuff to adapt it'll be a great year and they'll have to try something new next year
00:33:48 ◼ ► and ios 27 but i thought of that too that it could lead to some kind of cat and mouse game but
00:33:54 ◼ ► i would presume that as long as you know you're on hold and you're keeping your phone nearby you know
00:34:02 ◼ ► that you'll notice and if it adds i don't know five to ten seconds of them waiting for you to get back
00:34:16 ◼ ► adversely affect i'm sure every single person who works like doing those jobs gets you know is measured
00:34:24 ◼ ► how many calls they answer in a day i don't really think that's going to adversely affect their stats
00:34:29 ◼ ► i don't know it seems like a win you know yeah hopefully but just announcing those features in line
00:34:36 ◼ ► with the platforms that they apply to is so much more a natural way of doing it it just fits with
00:34:44 ◼ ► the way the whole company is set up that they're a sort of functional company not a divisional company
00:34:50 ◼ ► the problem that they've had as each platform has grown is that so many of the features overlap and
00:34:58 ◼ ► are available on each platform so they'll announce a feature as part of ios 26 and then that feature is
00:35:03 ◼ ► also coming to mac os 26 and i think in the past few wwdc's as that line has blurred a bit they've
00:35:10 ◼ ► struggled with where to put individual features but this year i think they really nailed it on okay
00:35:16 ◼ ► what features will people care most about on the iphone we'll put that in the iphone section and then
00:35:22 ◼ ► we'll just give it a passing mission in the mac they've really nailed how to break down each platform
00:35:26 ◼ ► yeah and maybe it's my seeing what i want to see but i kind of feel in a lot of years the platform
00:35:35 ◼ ► of the big three ios ipad os and mac os the one that gets the least love is ipad os and so they've been
00:35:42 ◼ ► like well let's well it's for all three platforms but we've got to have something to say about ipad so
00:35:47 ◼ ► we'll put that in the ipad os feature and like last year with the math notes they did it most of
00:35:55 ◼ ► it in ipad because they were showing off and it made some sense because they were showing off the
00:35:59 ◼ ► pencil and that you could handwrite the math notes but the fact is you could do the math notes in the
00:36:05 ◼ ► notes app on any of the platforms and you could just type them which is you know how i think most
00:36:10 ◼ ► people would do it anyway but the pencil made for a good demo but then i think it also was a little
00:36:16 ◼ ► confusing because i think it even left me with the impression at first that maybe it was pencil only
00:36:21 ◼ ► yep i had the same impression right because it is the only platform that uses a pencil so at the one
00:36:27 ◼ ► point it makes for a great demo because it's here it is it's showing you a cool pencil feature and you
00:36:34 ◼ ► can certainly imagine how i don't know i was going to say it makes me think of kids and students but
00:36:39 ◼ ► i'm thinking of my own son who's heading into his senior year of college and he's like hardly
00:36:43 ◼ ► written anything with a pen life right like his handwriting he's a 21 year old young man and his
00:36:50 ◼ ► handwriting looks like he's to me looks like he's a third girl so i don't know i i guess it's sort of
00:36:56 ◼ ► an old person's idea that kids would use the pencil to do their math actually i guess kids are more likely
00:37:01 ◼ ► to use the keyboard but it does leave that weird impression of wait is this ipad only or is it for all
00:37:07 ◼ ► three but we're sort of getting used to the fact that anything that could be all three is all three
00:37:12 ◼ ► is all three yeah yeah what else was a highlight for you before we get into details i mean you
00:37:19 ◼ ► mentioned if you want to just get into it you mentioned ipad os is the platform that never
00:37:23 ◼ ► gets yeah they're grasping at straws to get a segment put together that was not the case this year
00:37:28 ◼ ► they saved it for the very end stole the show and the first impressions i've seen are great
00:37:35 ◼ ► yeah well let's let's come back to that as because that's a good major point that i don't want to sell
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00:39:39 ◼ ► h e l p dot com slash talk show yeah big year for ipad and i know that they think about it every year like
00:39:49 ◼ ► what order to do the platforms in and this year it leaked german had a lot of it but it made sense to
00:39:56 ◼ ► save ipad os for last because it really was the year that ipad fans serious ipad fans who were looking
00:40:04 ◼ ► for it to be more of a computer were waiting for and i think they nailed it i really do and when german
00:40:13 ◼ ► published the first report saying apple is going to make the ipad more mac like it's like okay we've
00:40:19 ◼ ► heard that before yeah they added multitasking with i ios 9 or whatever they added stage manager you could
00:40:25 ◼ ► describe all of those as attempts to make the ipad more mac like so i was highly skeptical but as soon
00:40:33 ◼ ► as they showed off the windowing stuff in ipad os 26 i was like okay this is this is the real deal
00:40:38 ◼ ► finally and it's not just the windowing system too you go you have the local capture for audio which is
00:40:45 ◼ ► going to be great for podcasters you have the background tasks thing where you can actually edit a video in
00:40:51 ◼ ► final cut and then start exporting it and not have to keep the app in the foreground there's all kinds
00:40:56 ◼ ► of little touches like that in addition to the the flagship windowing system yeah in a way as many
00:41:03 ◼ ► scoops as mark german had you know in the last few months leading up to wwdc and he certainly ranked up a
00:41:12 ◼ ► bunch of being right points in a way though a lot of them left a lot for apple to show and i would say
00:41:21 ◼ ► the ipad multitasking slash windowing stuff in particular very much because i think his style has
00:41:30 ◼ ► always even back in the day it's been a long time when he was at nine to five mac he's never been a show
00:41:37 ◼ ► leaker he's been a tell leaker he describes stuff but doesn't show mock-ups or doesn't show
00:41:44 ◼ ► leaked images or something like that so i think exactly like you said we've heard that before even
00:41:51 ◼ ► from german in years past that some features of the ipad were to make it more mac like or bring
00:41:58 ◼ ► some mac like features i think the split screen stuff with the three dots that you tap to manage
00:42:04 ◼ ► the split screen in recent years were i think sort of described similarly leading up to it whereas this
00:42:10 ◼ ► was like oh red yellow green buttons yeah that's there we go i get it right that was the thing when
00:42:17 ◼ ► they showed those buttons on the screen or on the on the keynote for the first time i was like okay
00:42:20 ◼ ► yep they're doing it this year yeah and a menu bar i think that the menu bar is kind of weird it's
00:42:27 ◼ ► weird that it's centered i kind of get it because i have i've installed the beta on my ipad pro and i
00:42:34 ◼ ► kind of get it because depending on how you're holding it you've still got like the date and time up in the
00:42:41 ◼ ► upper left corner where like the the signal strength for your cellular if you have a cellular ipad so i
00:42:49 ◼ ► get you know and at the center is sort of free they don't have there's no notch on an ipad so the center
00:42:55 ◼ ► is available but i don't know there's some something about the 30 year mac user in me 30 plus year mac user in me
00:43:06 ◼ ► that thinks a centered menu bar is just kind of weird right it's weird but at the same time i think
00:43:12 ◼ ► it's going to be once we see more developers take proper advantage of it and put more in the menu bar
00:43:18 ◼ ► yeah you could make the argument that it's as big of a paradigm paradigm shift for the ipad as the
00:43:24 ◼ ► windowing system stuff is just having all of those controls right there and previously you could access
00:43:29 ◼ ► some of it by hitting i think it's the globe key or something no the command key it was yeah it's like
00:43:35 ◼ ► the idea is you hold the command key and then the heads up display would show you it was clearly like
00:43:42 ◼ ► a menu bar and it would show you the same and in fact the apps that support that automatically get a
00:43:47 ◼ ► menu bar now right like that is whatever that's called in the ipad apis is now just shown as the menu
00:43:56 ◼ ► bar that was such a weird in some ways it's even a better example than the windowing like the way that
00:44:03 ◼ ► i think that they've tied they tied themselves in knots for years trying to do split screen or call
00:44:11 ◼ ► them windows even though they didn't act they called things windows that didn't really act like windows
00:44:16 ◼ ► at all but ways to put multiple things on screen at once and do it not like the mac just it to me it
00:44:25 ◼ ► seemed like just for the sake of making it different than the mac that they tied themselves in knots and
00:44:32 ◼ ► wound up with things that were confusing that confused many people that i think were very hard
00:44:38 ◼ ► to discover so i think there are zillions of ipad users who didn't even realize or you know today
00:44:45 ◼ ► still using ipad os 18 don't even realize those features are there everybody in my family i know i've
00:44:52 ◼ ► heard from people who actually like slide over now that i've written about it but in my family
00:44:58 ◼ ► everybody only time i ever hear about slide over is when people in my family get it by accident and
00:45:03 ◼ ► want to know how to make the there's a safari thing on the side of my screen and i don't know how to make
00:45:10 ◼ ► it go away but i think the the menu bar thing is a better example of how trying to do something
00:45:18 ◼ ► different than the mac for the sake of being different gave them something worse so you only
00:45:23 ◼ ► got that heads up display of the commands and they were organized into file and edit and format you know
00:45:31 ◼ ► the same names as menus but you only got it when you were holding the command key down and that meant you
00:45:35 ◼ ► had to have a keyboard connected and yet the ipad you know as they keep telling us even in this
00:45:42 ◼ ► announcement it's a touch first device so also i don't think it was a great design that when you
00:45:48 ◼ ► did the hold down the command key it covered all the content on your screen like part of the beauty of
00:45:54 ◼ ► the menu bar from 1984 onward is it's up there at the top so it doesn't cover the content of your screen
00:46:02 ◼ ► until you pull it down whereas that hold down the command key thing as soon as you did it it covered
00:46:08 ◼ ► everything on your screen kind of weird but the big huge glaring problem with it was there was no way to
00:46:14 ◼ ► invoke that when you didn't have a keyboard attached and not having a keyboard attached is the default state
00:46:20 ◼ ► of an ipad like that's a real fundamental painted yourself into a corner ui design where there's this
00:46:28 ◼ ► great new feature where you have access to all of these commands that only show up when you need them
00:46:34 ◼ ► and you can't use it without a keyboard attached there were rumors in the lead up to the announcement
00:46:40 ◼ ► that it would be exclusive to ipads like you'd dock it into your magic keyboard yeah then you'd get this
00:46:45 ◼ ► option to enable proper windowing but they didn't do that and like you said i think that's a great thing
00:46:51 ◼ ► because it just creates such a yeah turns it into two separate products i mean craig federighi did that
00:46:57 ◼ ► interview with federico vettici trying to explain the balance between giving ipad power users what
00:47:04 ◼ ► they want while still retaining it as a platform for people who just want to like open a netflix app and
00:47:08 ◼ ► watch something full screen and one of the analogies federighi used was not wanting to create a spork
00:47:14 ◼ ► which i think was kind of suggesting you don't want something that does both things but does neither of
00:47:20 ◼ ► them well you want something that can do all of it and retain a use case for each specific thing you're
00:47:27 ◼ ► trying to do and i think they nailed it yeah i think so too but i also think by backing all the way out
00:47:33 ◼ ► to first principles and starting over with all new windowing a new menu bar system that they were able
00:47:41 ◼ ► to do it in a way that works and looks exactly the same whether your ipad is docked with a keyboard
00:47:48 ◼ ► or not it's exactly the same you just you know use your finger to to drag the thing from the corner to
00:47:55 ◼ ► turn a full screen app into a windowed app and you just tap the red yellow green button there's like an
00:48:01 ◼ ► extra tap because the red yellow green buttons start in like a like a small press state yeah yeah and i think
00:48:08 ◼ ► that's a fine compromise you know uh for the ipad i i it i don't think anybody's going to find that
00:48:14 ◼ ► taking two taps to close a window is a ui disaster i think it's a great compromise for a touch device
00:48:20 ◼ ► but it really gets them to a state where you could do all of it even if you don't own a keyboard let
00:48:26 ◼ ► alone have it attached to your keyboard at a time you you get the exact same experience which is as it
00:48:31 ◼ ► should be it's just sort of a good principle of ui design that you should be able to do everything
00:48:36 ◼ ► without having a different mode for when a keyboard is attached i i think it's just great especially
00:48:44 ◼ ► when the cheapest keyboard from apple is like 300 it really kills the argument of the ipad value if you
00:48:51 ◼ ► have to buy a 300 keyboard to take advantage of the proper multitasking right and it you know and as i've
00:48:58 ◼ ► been using it it just feels very natural i realize that takes a lot of design work that the more
00:49:06 ◼ ► obvious the design feels and seems like hey i don't know you know but it does it it it makes me think
00:49:12 ◼ ► like i don't know why they didn't come up with this years ago and i realize it's a lot of work to make
00:49:16 ◼ ► it seem so intuitive but it really does it's and i think people are really going to like it and i also
00:49:22 ◼ ► think that the sort of hey when you upgrade when your ipad it come the fall for the normal people
00:49:31 ◼ ► who don't run the betas and they upgrade to ipad os 26 it's going to ask them do you want to just
00:49:38 ◼ ► stick with single window full screen apps or do you want to use multiple windows and if you pick the
00:49:44 ◼ ► first you don't even get the little affordance in the corner to zoom it so you know somebody like my
00:49:51 ◼ ► dad 87 year old not an advanced computer user loves his ipad pro does almost all of his computing
00:49:58 ◼ ► all of it on it it definitely going to have him stick with single window mode right that's how he
00:50:04 ◼ ► wants to use it i there are people who are advanced users who are super advanced on the mac
00:50:10 ◼ ► who want their ipads to run that way and i think it's great that that's still there and if you change
00:50:17 ◼ ► your mind you just go you don't even have to go to settings it's a like a toggle and control center
00:50:22 ◼ ► i think that's a great compromise that will please both ends of the audience it's just a win it's just
00:50:28 ◼ ► really probably the best year ever for ipad os really easily either one of the best ways i've been
00:50:34 ◼ ► able to describe the experience of using ipad os with the magic keyboard with the multitasking mode
00:50:40 ◼ ► enabled is that it's gets so close to feeling like you're using a touchscreen mac yeah so close and
00:50:47 ◼ ► there's always been the dynamic of you do something on your ipad then you go use your macbook later that
00:50:52 ◼ ► day and you kind of want to reach out and touch the screen because you've been using your ipad but now
00:50:58 ◼ ► that you have this very similar windowing system on ipad that problem is like it's so close they're so
00:51:04 ◼ ► close to each other now which is very much not what i expected yeah you know and federighi does a good
00:51:11 ◼ ► job talking about it but it requires so much nuance the whole addressing the whole question of well if
00:51:18 ◼ ► they're so similar in so many ways now why are they two different platforms why not just make one
00:51:24 ◼ ► platform and different form factors so if you want a laptop you could be running the same os as the
00:51:31 ◼ ► tablet and i think federighi does a good job explaining it probably better than anybody including
00:51:37 ◼ ► me i know why there are two different platforms and i kind of feel like the new background what's the
00:51:44 ◼ ► name of the feature like where final cut can export a very long video back just background tasks background
00:51:51 ◼ ► tasks the way that they've implemented in ipad os 26 exemplifies that feature exemplifies why they are
00:52:01 ◼ ► two different platforms right it's the idea on the mac the idea that you'd have to use a special new
00:52:09 ◼ ► api that just came out in 2025 to do something lengthy computationally expensive in the background
00:52:20 ◼ ► while you do other things is like bananas right that was the whole idea of mac os 10 10.0 in 2001
00:52:31 ◼ ► that we were moving from a platform that didn't really have preemptive multitasking the classic
00:52:37 ◼ ► mac os to one that did and that you know used a unix kernel with best of breed computer science
00:52:45 ◼ ► multitasking that would be bananas but on iphone ios or ipad os the idea that there are apps doing
00:52:53 ◼ ► computationally expensive things in the background is contrary to the nature of the platform that's part of
00:53:00 ◼ ► the appeal of the platform and it's also part of the frustration for power users who want to be able
00:53:07 ◼ ► to do those things and feel like they would be in control of them not the software that they've
00:53:11 ◼ ► installed but for the vast majority of typical users the idea that there are apps doing battery
00:53:19 ◼ ► consuming energy consuming things in the background is against the nature of the platform and people are so
00:53:25 ◼ ► spooked by the idea that it's fueled the whole mania that that nobody's ever you know whatever i'm going with this
00:53:32 ◼ ► yeah quitting you know switching to multitasking mode i mean there are tens of millions of iphone users who
00:53:39 ◼ ► habitually quit apps in the multitasking switcher and think they're doing themselves a favor when in fact they're not
00:53:46 ◼ ► they're doing themselves a disfavor because it actually it costs energy to relaunch the apps
00:53:53 ◼ ► you know as opposed to letting the os freeze them so it's it's really a very nice solution to use and
00:54:01 ◼ ► effectively it's using live activities yeah and ipad os so it's the same thing that you know when you're
00:54:06 ◼ ► following a sports game or you've hailed an uber and you get a live activity showing the progress
00:54:12 ◼ ► of the uber as it the driver comes to pick you up that's what the background export from an app
00:54:20 ◼ ► that's how it presents on ipad os and it's really kind of brilliant there's two rules at least two
00:54:27 ◼ ► rules did you did they explain this to you in your briefing it was kind of a nice briefing
00:54:31 ◼ ► i don't know i don't remember i did not get a dedicated ipad briefing no ah i got a dedicated ipad
00:54:38 ◼ ► briefing and it was very nice they did it in the the center atrium of the steve jobs theater
00:54:43 ◼ ► downstairs yeah you know where the hands-on usually is after like the iphone event so when they have the
00:54:49 ◼ ► hands-on after the iphone it is so freaking crowded in there right it is it's horrible right it's like
00:54:57 ◼ ► you're it's like you're in the lobby at a arena going to an nba playoff game you know and everybody's
00:55:03 ◼ ► excited and it's elbow to elbow so it's this big space and i'm in a group with i don't know i think
00:55:10 ◼ ► five total members of the press and they have like four workstations to show different aspects you know
00:55:17 ◼ ► like they had one that was set up with a big studio display you know like this new windowing system
00:55:23 ◼ ► makes so much more sense now that ipad has external display uh until now i've always thought i don't know
00:55:31 ◼ ► why anybody would use this other than to like present what you're seeing on your ipad to a group
00:55:38 ◼ ► of people but like i can't imagine why people would want to work like that now i see like oh yeah i can
00:55:43 ◼ ► imagine someone who loves working on ipad os they're going to love having external display support but it
00:55:48 ◼ ► was a good little 40 minute 30 minute i always forget how long those the demos are but they emphasized
00:55:54 ◼ ► when they showed us the export i think they even used final cut as the demo app that the two rules
00:56:01 ◼ ► for the api are whatever the task is it has to be completable so you can't use it to do something that is
00:56:10 ◼ ► just constantly pulling oh yeah in the background it has to have a completion you know and you have to be able
00:56:17 ◼ ► to estimate the completion so that you can show a determinate progress bar so there's you're not
00:56:24 ◼ ► allowed to use the api for an indeterminate never-ending task or one that you don't know how long is going
00:56:30 ◼ ► to take or i guess you don't have to ask you know it's not that you know exactly how long it's going to
00:56:34 ◼ ► take but you have to be able to have a completion and the second thing is it has to be user initiated
00:56:41 ◼ ► the user has to tap a button to do the thing you can't just invoke it automatically while the user is
00:56:56 ◼ ► background sync or backup for your data you can't just say that every 30 minutes while the user is
00:57:06 ◼ ► using the app the app is going to initiate a background sync and use this api it has to be
00:57:13 ◼ ► user initiated which are two great rules and i think speak to why ipad os is a discrete different
00:57:22 ◼ ► platform from mac os it exemplifies why apple has built out two on the surface very similar
00:57:31 ◼ ► graphical user interface red yellow green button windowing gooey systems but with very different
00:57:38 ◼ ► fundamental rules for what's going on there's other things too in ipad os 26 that as someone who has
00:57:45 ◼ ► only tried a couple times in the past to use my ipad for everything that i was shocked to find out
00:57:51 ◼ ► weren't there one of the biggest being the ability to like resize columns in the files app yeah they
00:57:57 ◼ ► said that and i was like there's no way that this is the first time you've been able to do that but
00:58:01 ◼ ► sure enough it is and there's other stuff and you can like save a a folder to to your doc now which is
00:58:08 ◼ ► another thing as a mac user it's like yeah okay that's yeah i didn't realize you couldn't do that
00:58:12 ◼ ► no and i think the reason it's funny that the files app couldn't resize columns before is that it only
00:58:17 ◼ ► had two columns yeah like the name name and date or something i think that was it and so why let you
00:58:23 ◼ ► resize it if there's only two columns and now it's more i am pleasantly pleased because i feel you know
00:58:31 ◼ ► i don't know i would hope it wasn't even a debate inside apple but i worry that it was i'm always a
00:58:38 ◼ ► little worried especially in a year like this one that somebody inside the company is going to want
00:58:44 ◼ ► to rename the finder files oh yeah well they changed the icon so yeah everybody can complain about that
00:58:52 ◼ ► this summer or the next summer we can have the files complaint i can't help but think there's somebody in
00:58:57 ◼ ► the company who's like why are we still calling this thing finder it's not really you know we should call
00:59:01 ◼ ► it files and then the whole mantra of unifying these platforms in the ways that make sense you know
00:59:08 ◼ ► like the way that apple notes works so similarly across all three it's not the same app right but it's
00:59:15 ◼ ► supposed to feel like it's the same app and so i don't know i i hope they don't rename the finder
00:59:21 ◼ ► and i think there's enough people but i worry that as the people even federighi yeah like federighi's i
00:59:28 ◼ ► think 56 or something like that so he's not too old but it won't be too long where there aren't any
00:59:35 ◼ ► people left who remember yeah the classic mac os from the 80s and early 90s and so whatever
00:59:42 ◼ ► nostalgia fuels some of their decisions to keep some things unchanged like the finder that that'll be gone
00:59:50 ◼ ► but i'm glad it's not i i think it's great that the files app is now a much more serious files app
00:59:56 ◼ ► and i think it's great that the finder still called the finder and i think that flipping the
01:00:02 ◼ ► colors of the finder icon is bananas i don't know why it really bothers me but it really bothers me
01:00:09 ◼ ► i do think that by adding these new multitasking windowing features and all the stuff to ipad os 26
01:00:15 ◼ ► it does give them more room to leave the mac untouched to a degree but yeah and there's less
01:00:23 ◼ ► reason for dramatic changes on the mac now that you have the ipad which can offer a similar experience
01:00:28 ◼ ► right in a newer way and then you have the mac which is can continue to exist in the way people
01:00:35 ◼ ► are familiar with right and in the way that you wind up with things running in the background
01:00:40 ◼ ► and and that you can shoot yourself in the foot in numerous ways you know that it is a power tool
01:00:47 ◼ ► you know and tries to warn you and tries to defend against things i think they've managed that pretty
01:00:52 ◼ ► well i think i think the fear that the mac would get too ipadified hasn't come to fruition i think i think
01:01:02 ◼ ► that they're macifying the ipad especially this year finally i really think this is the year where
01:01:08 ◼ ► they've added just the right amount of mac likeness to ipad and i think it's going to prove very popular
01:01:13 ◼ ► i really do and i think they've kind of put the brakes on ipadifying mac os you know and i don't know
01:01:22 ◼ ► how rampant that the belief was within the company but i know there were some people seven eight years ago
01:01:28 ◼ ► when the apple's what is a computer ipad ad came out yeah and i think people who were worried that
01:01:36 ◼ ► apple was going to what would be the word deprecate the mac sort of turn it into a legacy platform
01:01:48 ◼ ► i i think it was fueled in some regards by comments tim cook made that i think were taken out of context
01:01:54 ◼ ► where tim cook said yeah i do everything on an ipad you know and i i think what tim cook meant by that
01:02:00 ◼ ► is if he had been talking about the iphone instead he would have just said yep i do everything on the
01:02:05 ◼ ► iphone i you know i can i can do my spreadsheets i do my email i do you know whatever the platform he's
01:02:11 ◼ ► talking about he's he's singing the praises of it in the highest regard possible and so i don't really
01:02:17 ◼ ► think he meant we're moving away from the mac but people who were worried that they were took it that
01:02:23 ◼ ► way and i think there was something of a sentiment within the company of well this platform started
01:02:29 ◼ ► in 1984 how long is it going to go on you know and that some people are like you know so we've got this
01:02:34 ◼ ► hot new thing why shouldn't the ipad take over but i think they've reached a really good equilibrium
01:02:41 ◼ ► where they see and they're they're clearly defining the rules for the two platforms and
01:02:47 ◼ ► let you decide and i don't think i know that we joke about it we joked about it i know neil i joked
01:02:53 ◼ ► on stage at my show and i think jaws even made the joke in his interview with joanna stern you know
01:03:00 ◼ ► that it would be great if you bought both and i know that's sort of you know of course apple thinks
01:03:06 ◼ ► you should buy both but they are two different platforms and i think they deserve to be i think
01:03:11 ◼ ► the ipad is finally making the case for why it deserves a standalone status as a graphical user
01:03:18 ◼ ► interface pro thing that many people might use as their primary work computer the thing about the ipad
01:03:26 ◼ ► is that it is the most modular product that apple sells it can adapt to so many different audiences so
01:03:33 ◼ ► many different use cases you can use it like you said your dad can use it as just a full screen app
01:03:38 ◼ ► device you now have this windowing system you can use a touch with a keyboard you can use it on wi-fi
01:03:44 ◼ ► it has cellular built in it is the most modular thing that apple sells and for better for worse the mac
01:03:50 ◼ ► doesn't have that modularity the mac you can use as a laptop as a desktop or connected to a display
01:03:56 ◼ ► so there's a clear reason that the ipad exists even though it is getting closer and closer to the mac
01:04:03 ◼ ► yeah you don't have to explain it any further and so if they're left with most people who don't think
01:04:10 ◼ ► more than superficially about it being a little hmm i wonder why they are two different platforms
01:04:16 ◼ ► just don't worry about it and it's working itself out now that they've got this system uh let's take a
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01:07:03 ◼ ► website or domain squarespace.com slash talk show we've gotten this far and we haven't talked about
01:07:10 ◼ ► liquid glass i know it's a testament to the ipad it's so exciting we had to bump bump liquid glass
01:07:17 ◼ ► two weeks out three weeks out what do you what are your thoughts on liquid glass well i put it on my
01:07:23 ◼ ► backup phone i think what i guess yeah i put it on my three yeah i put it on my backup phone i think
01:07:31 ◼ ► while we were sitting together at the state of the union who was downloading and so i haven't used it
01:07:36 ◼ ► full time on day-to-day basis but but did i show you mine when we were sitting there i think so and it
01:07:46 ◼ ► showed because of the what we we we we picked a seat sort of in the front row of the back section
01:07:52 ◼ ► yep so we were far from the stage and far from the ring building and the wi-fi was pretty spotty there
01:07:58 ◼ ► yep and mine was telling me that it would on my spare phone that it was going to take six days to install
01:08:05 ◼ ► i think the most i got was like 12 hours i'd never had six days i got it up to six days and i really
01:08:12 ◼ ► really was impressed that they've programmed that into the estimated time remaining and i was really
01:08:19 ◼ ► once it got to six i was like oh will it get to a week will it give me one week remaining
01:08:24 ◼ ► and we're also sitting outside in and out of the sun so my phone has it was downloading it's like a hot
01:08:31 ◼ ► potato or something yes but i think liquid glass i am very impressed with it i think there are so many
01:08:41 ◼ ► elements of it that are both new and different but not new and different for the sake of being new and
01:08:47 ◼ ► different there are functional improvements to it it looks visually good there are places where it falls
01:08:54 ◼ ► down which i'm sure we'll talk about but it is beta one and i just overall think i like it i see i'm trying
01:09:02 ◼ ► to figure out how to put this into words you can't deny that while the previous design of ios 18 was
01:09:09 ◼ ► relatively consistent relatively solid relatively stable it really was starting to feel stale
01:09:16 ◼ ► yeah you heard it you realize it as an iphone user you hear people talk about how the iphone hasn't
01:09:22 ◼ ► changed in five six ten years and part of that applies to the hardware but it also to a degree applies to the
01:09:30 ◼ ► software if you give everybody who has an iphone now a dramatically new software interface they are no
01:09:36 ◼ ► longer going to say their iphone has felt the same for 10 years will they like the design that's up in
01:09:42 ◼ ► the air i think most people will like this design i think it feels very modern and very fresh but they
01:09:46 ◼ ► get it while the hardware is still evolving because we're not expecting any major new hardware for the
01:09:52 ◼ ► iphone until at least next year right so this addresses that iphone is stale complaint quite well i think
01:09:58 ◼ ► yeah i think so too i do feel like it it seems a bit rushed oh yeah but i kind of think it has to be
01:10:10 ◼ ► i don't know that there's any other way to do it and i feel like i don't know every once in a while
01:10:21 ◼ ► older stories like just just the creation of the iphone itself and you go back and reread
01:10:27 ◼ ► some of the books that have been written about it and you think about how quickly it all came together
01:10:32 ◼ ► it was like i don't know 18 months something like that or you know maybe really just a year from when they
01:10:39 ◼ ► really started making it to when steve jobs announced it on stage really really fast you know
01:10:46 ◼ ► or the original ipod which really went from john rubenstein who's then the hardware chief having a
01:10:53 ◼ ► meeting with toshiba executives where they were talking about that they uh this story came up in
01:11:00 ◼ ► patrick mcgee's apple in china again but i've heard the story before but toshiba was like the leading
01:11:06 ◼ ► or a leading maker of spinning hard disks back then and 2.5 inch drives were the standard for laptops
01:11:13 ◼ ► and toshiba had come up with a 1.8 inch drive which was a significant reduction in size but they couldn't
01:11:21 ◼ ► sell them because it turned out all the laptop makers were like yeah 2.5 is fine we've got plenty
01:11:26 ◼ ► of space for a drive we're not going to pay more for a 1.8 inch drive and so toshiba went showed it to
01:11:31 ◼ ► them and was like yeah we've made we've made these amazing new tiny hard drives and nobody wants to buy
01:11:37 ◼ ► them and rubenstein you know had the idea like oh you know what we've been thinking about making a music
01:11:43 ◼ ► player this five gigabyte drive would hold 5 000 songs this would be perfect and told whoever was
01:11:51 ◼ ► the operations guy at the time we should make a deal with them to buy them all go to toshiba and sign a
01:11:56 ◼ ► contract and they were worried it said in the apple in china book that that the check wouldn't wouldn't
01:12:03 ◼ ► cash because i don't know it's like a taiwanese sub subsidiary of apple had to sign the check or
01:12:09 ◼ ► whatever but six months later they unveiled the ipod it happened that fast and i feel like there are
01:12:16 ◼ ► today you know apple just seems to go slower right that yeah i was 16 to 17 to 18 and there have been
01:12:25 ◼ ► tons of stuff to talk about every year in what's new in in these os's but in some sense it feels like
01:12:33 ◼ ► they're just moving slower and iterating and i think it is also the nature of existing 10 15 year old
01:12:42 ◼ ► platforms right the iphone is coming up on 20 years right 20 years of iphone soon yeah it's the nature
01:12:49 ◼ ► that of course they're going to change more iteratively it's an established platform and it's the new
01:12:54 ◼ ► stuff that goes quicker but i think it's good for apple to not spend an extra year on liquid glass
01:13:01 ◼ ► and instead say we're shipping it this year we need some you know and even if it's driven by trying to
01:13:08 ◼ ► distract people from where apple is relative to the rest of the industry in ai and in their own models
01:13:15 ◼ ► it's fine lean into design right what does apple do better than anybody else should be design yeah lean
01:13:23 ◼ ► into it and say we're shipping it this year so go fast and you can kind of feel that and i heard i don't
01:13:30 ◼ ► know if you heard this but i heard from a couple people at apple that i wrote this but that internally
01:13:36 ◼ ► it was really really like hey are we are we gonna be able to oh is this gonna be ready yeah for wwdc like
01:13:44 ◼ ► i heard literally they had some developers come out four weeks in advance to do like the developers who
01:13:52 ◼ ► got featured in the keynote i got my friend gus muller who acorn got featured but he got called out you
01:14:00 ◼ ► you know and they came out to to make a build of acorn using the liquid glass apis so they could show it
01:14:07 ◼ ► in the keynote and so there was like a build of these os's like four weeks ago where it was like
01:14:14 ◼ ► okay this is stable enough for developers that we invite in to build something that we can put in the keynote
01:14:20 ◼ ► but then like three weeks before the keynote everything fell apart and there were like internal
01:14:25 ◼ ► builds that were just like a mess like apple can't show this and they're like wwdc's in three weeks what
01:14:31 ◼ ► are we doing why did we change this you know and it's sort of come together i think we're going to see a
01:14:35 ◼ ► lot of changes over this summer but i think that's good and i think it's fun i don't think it's a sign
01:14:40 ◼ ► of weakness i think it's a sign of confidence that hey we're apple we can pull this together over the
01:14:46 ◼ ► course of a summer yeah and i think in terms of this feeling rushed or feeling like they moved quick
01:14:51 ◼ ► something that i had forgotten about was johnny ive formerly took over software human interface design
01:14:58 ◼ ► in october of 2012 they unveiled ios 7 in june of 2013 and obviously ios 7 was perhaps the most rushed
01:15:08 ◼ ► of any iphone software release ever ios 7 beta 1 is probably the most buggy thing that apple has ever
01:15:15 ◼ ► shipped and allowed the general public to use right and i don't think we'll see an ios 7 style beta cycle
01:15:22 ◼ ► this fall or this summer but it'll be probably the biggest change from beta 1 to release since we've
01:15:28 ◼ ► seen it a long time yeah and i think that the you know this ios 7 was definitely like a total reset
01:15:36 ◼ ► you know you couldn't nobody was going to be like oh yeah i guess it is kind of new looking like it was
01:15:42 ◼ ► whoa this is totally different but i think the same principle holds that directing his team and the
01:15:49 ◼ ► company to hey we're going to do this in six months is sort of the way that and again it's not rushed i
01:15:56 ◼ ► think it's urgency and urgency is is necessary sometimes and that you don't want to dawdle off on
01:16:03 ◼ ► your own for 18 months if your choice is between doing it in six months or 18 months do it in six
01:16:09 ◼ ► months and just know that you'll keep iterating over those 18 months right and ios 8 was a significant
01:16:15 ◼ ► improvement over ios 7 in terms of a lot of the little visual things that were like hey i don't know
01:16:21 ◼ ► this might be too flat right this is supposedly a layer but it doesn't even look like a layer it all
01:16:26 ◼ ► just looks drawn on top of each other i i so i i'm overall very happy i i think the platform where
01:16:34 ◼ ► it looks the worst so far is the mac and i hope i really hope that that's just sort of like yeah we
01:16:41 ◼ ► kind of went iphone first because iphone is iphone ipad inherited a lot of the stuff we focused on for
01:16:51 ◼ ► iphone because let's face it ipad os is a derivative of ios and the mac well sorry it feels
01:16:59 ◼ ► shoehorned in on the mac almost they added what they could in terms of like the menu bars non-existent
01:17:05 ◼ ► now there's some transparency you know the messages app has a similar design and features as the iphone
01:17:11 ◼ ► but there's there doesn't feel at least as as it stands right now that there's any real benefit to
01:17:17 ◼ ► the changes on the mac you don't get any of the animations the new right the new gesture controls
01:17:23 ◼ ► and all of the benefits of scrolling and seeing more of your content none of that's really on the mac
01:17:27 ◼ ► and i don't know how much they're going to walk back but i do think either they'll add more of the
01:17:34 ◼ ► functionality from the iphone and liquid glass or they'll scale it back a little bit because you're
01:17:40 ◼ ► not even getting any of the quote-unquote like liquid animations which is one of the hallmarks of liquid
01:17:45 ◼ ► glass is the animations those just aren't there on the mac and i i think that there's a a real
01:17:51 ◼ ► layering problem on the mac where and i i it jumps out at me every i'm not using the beta on a mac yet
01:17:58 ◼ ► and i'm not going to use it on my main mac until i don't know fall at least but but just having see
01:18:05 ◼ ► every time i see it it's just sort of jarring the way that toolbar buttons look like floating pallets in
01:18:13 ◼ ► front of the window not buttons that are attached to the window and i think that the difference is
01:18:20 ◼ ► like on ios you don't have chrome for the window the buttons really are just on top of the content and
01:18:27 ◼ ► we can argue about content first see the content through everything i think it's an arguable i think
01:18:34 ◼ ► it's a debatable design goal and i think i think it is a little trendy and i think it is
01:18:41 ◼ ► personally i think it's a little counterproductive where you say it's about putting the content first
01:18:48 ◼ ► but i actually think it's sort of disrespectful to the content to make it more ambiguous where the
01:18:54 ◼ ► content starts and ends yeah and sort of have it blur away but it is a choice and so and on ios
01:19:02 ◼ ► on the iphone the buttons literally are right on top of the content of the web page or on the content
01:19:09 ◼ ► of an email you're reading but on the mac there is window chrome where you tap and drag the pointer to
01:19:16 ◼ ► drag the window around and having the toolbar buttons float on top of that doesn't make them look like
01:19:23 ◼ ► they're buttons that are part of the window they look like buttons floating in front of the window which
01:19:28 ◼ ► is a very weird look and it really looks weird when you turn on the button text labels underneath it just
01:19:35 ◼ ► to me it's just beta one and yeah yeah they haven't really looked at it because they don't fit it's it's
01:19:40 ◼ ► the buttons are the wrong size for the text labels underneath i mean on the iphone one of my places where i
01:19:47 ◼ ► noticed the animation of the liquid glass kind of falling down is when you're scrolling like the music app is a
01:19:54 ◼ ► great example you're you start playing something and then you're kind of scrolling through your library
01:19:58 ◼ ► you're scrolling down and you want to skip what's playing that bar at the bottom as you scroll down
01:20:04 ◼ ► collapses so you have your current tab in the left the now playing bar in the middle and a search bar on
01:20:09 ◼ ► the right the now playing bar doesn't have the skip track button unless you scroll back up just a little
01:20:16 ◼ ► bit it pops back up and you can skip your skip your track it's like it's hiding that important
01:20:21 ◼ ► interface element the reasoning being oh you can see half of the album art below as you scroll and that's
01:20:26 ◼ ► not a good trade-off i don't think no i don't think so either so you know hopefully everybody inside apple
01:20:32 ◼ ► is rowing in the same direction on these issues and they're like oh yeah yeah that's a problem that's a
01:20:37 ◼ ► problem so i and i feel like that's a lot what happened with the ios 7 summer right like a lot of the
01:20:44 ◼ ► most egregious design decisions were walked back very quickly i remember remember how male for some
01:20:52 ◼ ► odd reason male and only male used helvetica ultra thin which yes like a variant of helvetica that is
01:21:00 ◼ ► so thin it was baffling that they used it to like render the headers of your email messages and you know
01:21:07 ◼ ► by beta two or three that was fixed it was you know all right let's use a thicker weight well you mentioned
01:21:12 ◼ ► how it kind of collapsed inside apple like three weeks before yeah the keynote usually and i don't
01:21:19 ◼ ► know if this is 100 true this year the timelines might be different but usually the first beta that is
01:21:24 ◼ ► released on the day of the keynote is locked in two weeks before then so if you imagine how buggy it was
01:21:31 ◼ ► three weeks before the keynote i don't know how much they fixed in the next week and we're recording this on
01:21:36 ◼ ► monday morning right so i'd expect beta two to come out today or tomorrow yeah i expect yeah we're
01:21:44 ◼ ► probably poorly timed to this podcast recording probably in 50 minutes honestly yeah yeah honestly
01:21:50 ◼ ► i wouldn't be surprised but uh but hopefully it'll look smart i i expect it to be a vast improvement
01:21:56 ◼ ► of something that is already exciting but i think my biggest takeaway and i sort of emphasized it in my
01:22:02 ◼ ► write-up on daring fireball last week where i compared the way alan dye introduced this to the
01:22:07 ◼ ► way steve jobs introduced aqua where i i just feel like apple today should just be more comfortable
01:22:14 ◼ ► saying hey we did this because it looks cool right i don't know there's some kind of ah we're a big
01:22:20 ◼ ► serious three trillion dollar company so we have to justify this in serious business terms you know like
01:22:26 ◼ ► it's it's putting content first and it increases the harmony of of the coherence between your
01:22:32 ◼ ► different devices how about it looks really looks cool yeah that's what i was trying to say at the
01:22:38 ◼ ► start too is it just to a degree i don't know there's designers out there who might get mad at this but like
01:22:43 ◼ ► design is fashion fashion is design yeah fashion evolves design evolves the ios iphone design hasn't
01:22:50 ◼ ► changed majorly in a long time they did this and sure there might be some usability improvements or
01:22:57 ◼ ► whatever but like you said it just looks cool they did it because it looks cool and i think they spent
01:23:03 ◼ ► a significant amount of time on it in the keynote and i think deservedly so and i also think it is where
01:23:11 ◼ ► liquid glass shows the most polish already which is the iphone lock screen and you could say well that's
01:23:19 ◼ ► superficial right like it's your lock screen the phone is locked you're not using it right like
01:23:24 ◼ ► it's when you've unlocked the phone that you're doing things and using apps and playing games and
01:23:30 ◼ ► watching movies and answering emails and all of that but i don't know i interact with my lock screen a lot
01:23:39 ◼ ► now especially now that they've added widgets and the live activities it's sort of like a two-layer system
01:23:46 ◼ ► right where you've kind of got the ambient iphone that's in your pocket or on your desk all day while
01:23:54 ◼ ► you work on the lock screen and it's useful and usable now in certain ways and it is a constrained
01:24:04 ◼ ► playground for them to hyper focus on the polish and the coolness of liquid glass yeah i love the way that
01:24:15 ◼ ► the time stretches it is it is such a great use of the dynamic nature of the san francisco font i know
01:24:25 ◼ ► i don't know what they call it now adobe used to call it multiple master but it's a similar technology
01:24:31 ◼ ► where you're not just optically stretching a font that wasn't meant to be stretched it the font is defined
01:24:38 ◼ ► in such a complicated way that you can arbitrarily stretch the font and it redraws the width of the
01:24:46 ◼ ► strokes to make it look correct optically correct no matter how you do it squat you can like squish
01:24:55 ◼ ► it and make it really squat or you can stretch it make it really tall and i love playing with that on
01:25:00 ◼ ► my i've spent more time playing with that than anything else in ios 26 i'm doing it i'm just
01:25:07 ◼ ► messing with it right now as we sit here i'm just scrolling up and it's such a good example of
01:25:10 ◼ ► they did that because it looks cool there's literally no functionality right you're given by
01:25:16 ◼ ► making the time shrink and expand right it just looks cool yeah and combined with the new way of making
01:25:31 ◼ ► you wouldn't want to look at all your photos in your photo library that way permanently but to make a fun
01:25:40 ◼ ► effect for your lock screen i think it's super cool and you know and and the way that they've
01:25:45 ◼ ► really really dialed in the ability to layer things so like zillions of people have a picture of a loved
01:25:52 ◼ ► one a spouse a partner your kids your dog on your lock screen and to pull them forward and have the time
01:26:01 ◼ ► stretched out and cool looking glass numbers but have a little bit of the time behind the head of your
01:26:06 ◼ ► your loved one they've dialed that in to such a degree where they're so much better at like hair
01:26:11 ◼ ► detection and stuff like that i it's just again it's just cool and i think that's the sort of thing
01:26:17 ◼ ► that is the reason people fell in love with apple computers in the first place is yeah you know what
01:26:23 ◼ ► they're just cooler than other computers the photos on the lock screen thing too is a lot like on the apple
01:26:28 ◼ ► watch where they said the photos face on the apple watch is the most popular watch face by like
01:26:32 ◼ ► multiple orders of magnitude and i would imagine it's the same for the iphone where the most popular
01:26:39 ◼ ► picture that people have said is their iphone lock screen is a picture of something whether it's
01:26:43 ◼ ► something they took of a building or something or whether it's a family member a dog so that's why
01:26:47 ◼ ► every year they pay particular focus to those lock screen things because it was it last year that
01:26:52 ◼ ► they made the lock screen fully customizable yeah i guess that was two years ago maybe where you could
01:26:57 ◼ ► change the font you could do all that and every year they don't do a lot with watch faces unfortunately
01:27:03 ◼ ► but they always make a change to the photos face because they know what people use yeah yeah and it
01:27:09 ◼ ► is the you know there's people have sort of given up on that i didn't even see one complaint this year
01:27:15 ◼ ► about the fact that once again they have not announced an api for developers to make custom watch faces
01:27:21 ◼ ► given up yeah but i understand their thinking on that right that they think of themselves as
01:27:27 ◼ ► a traditional watchmaker and they're therefore they're in control of the design of the watch faces
01:27:32 ◼ ► because it's their watch the the photos face has been there since watch 1.0 as the the exception
01:27:39 ◼ ► to that rule that even even while johnny ive was still in charge of it you know and and i'm guessing
01:27:46 ◼ ► was maybe the most resistant but also i i could see how he's like ah yeah but we kind of have to
01:27:52 ◼ ► do that because he is a very emotional person he is he's very empathetic and he understands the idea
01:27:59 ◼ ► that yeah people are definitely going to want to put a picture of their kids on their watch we have to
01:28:04 ◼ ► let them do it it has you know so let's do it and make it look as good as we can and nobody's going
01:28:09 ◼ ► to complain about it because they pick the pictures right yeah the problem we're pivoting a little bit
01:28:15 ◼ ► but the problem with watch os 26 is that not only does it not add third-party watch face support it
01:28:20 ◼ ► doesn't add any new watch faces and it removes five of them from watch os 11 so they're not adding
01:28:29 ◼ ► new faces they remove five with watch os 26 they removed four with watch os 11 so we're down nine
01:28:35 ◼ ► watch faces and a year basically with the only two that they've added i think are the pride one for
01:28:42 ◼ ► this year and the black unity one for this year so i can understand the frustration some people have
01:28:47 ◼ ► and i don't think at this point i think people have given up on winning third-party watch faces
01:28:52 ◼ ► they just want apple to to keep keep doing more ones that they're used to yeah i would i'm a utility
01:28:58 ◼ ► man i've always been on utility from watch 1.0 forward i would be very upset if they got rid of you
01:29:04 ◼ ► they did get rid of one that was like my second favorite it was explorer oh yeah and it you could
01:29:13 ◼ ► see if you like utility why i liked explorer i think it was only on watches that had cellular there
01:29:20 ◼ ► was something because you could get like a it had a custom complication in the center where you could
01:29:25 ◼ ► get four dots to show your cellular strength yeah i really like that face and they got rid of that
01:29:30 ◼ ► that's when they got rid of last year that was like my second favorite watch face and i was kind of
01:29:34 ◼ ► bummed about that so i kind of yeah that and it is kind of breaking the promise of a traditional
01:29:40 ◼ ► watch you know like so if explorer was your favorite watch the idea that you buy a watch and you have a
01:29:46 ◼ ► watch face and you really love it and then you do a software update and it's gone yeah like that just
01:29:53 ◼ ► doesn't happen i mean there aren't software updates for mechanical watches but you don't send it in for
01:29:58 ◼ ► service and have it come back and it has a different watch face it's it is i see it and they don't you
01:30:05 ◼ ► know i get that as they add a couple new ones every year and they usually add new ones when the new watches
01:30:10 ◼ ► come yeah yeah and specifically you know the one thing they did the one good news about watch os 26 is
01:30:16 ◼ ► the analog hand faces like my beloved utility now get the ticking seconds hand yeah yeah right i i i wrote
01:30:27 ◼ ► about it i think only in my apple report card for six colors i didn't really write a proper watch os
01:30:33 ◼ ► review last year i ran out of time but my my complaint about the series 10 watches was that they added this
01:30:42 ◼ ► one second update to the always on mode but they only made one watch face that updated the seconds
01:30:49 ◼ ► hand it was whatever whatever the new one and i didn't really care for that watch face so it's
01:30:55 ◼ ► bananas to me that they had all these other watch faces with seconds hands and only none of the existing
01:31:02 ◼ ► ones updated to tick once per second so they've they have fixed that for the ones that they didn't get
01:31:07 ◼ ► rid of this year so that's good but why it took until a new os is kind of inexplicable to me yeah
01:31:16 ◼ ► i would love to see behind the curtain on some of the watch face development that happens at apple because
01:31:21 ◼ ► there are so many peculiar decisions that are made it there it seems like they have one guy working on
01:31:28 ◼ ► watch faces and he's just doing his best right and it's just sort of focused on getting the pride and
01:31:35 ◼ ► black black unity ones out because there's like a hard deadline for yeah for which month of the year
01:31:40 ◼ ► they have to come out on and it's like oh it is kind of funny to think if it's just like one or two
01:31:45 ◼ ► people yeah frantically updating them trying to think anything else before we sign off that's it's good
01:31:52 ◼ ► overview any other things stick out to you there's so many little things i love this time of the year
01:31:58 ◼ ► when we discover all the little changes firewire going away yep it's had a good run but you know
01:32:06 ◼ ► it you know obviously why it why it didn't make the keynote hey remember firewire we're getting rid of it
01:32:12 ◼ ► yeah one thing that i did want to mention and this is ios 26 i guess but the car play stuff
01:32:18 ◼ ► in ios 26 i'm very excited to see because i was concerned and i've written about this multiple
01:32:25 ◼ ► times so maybe they've read what i wrote but that in a world of what we now know as carplay ultra
01:32:36 ◼ ► was abandonware basically that it wasn't going to get anything but in ios 26 it's got liquid glass
01:32:43 ◼ ► it's got widgets it's got a new smart display zoom thing like that might have been the highlight of
01:32:49 ◼ ► the keynote for me just to see them actually focusing on that yeah yeah because they haven't really spoken
01:32:55 ◼ ► about it and the vibe i got was that carplay regular and carplay ultra aren't as separate as
01:33:04 ◼ ► maybe we had been led to think you know that it is sort of a a continuum of carplay based on the
01:33:15 ◼ ► capabilities of your car but that it isn't really a fork it's just sort of a well if your car can
01:33:23 ◼ ► support the carplay ultra stuff it does so much more and can expand to more screens but that the same
01:33:29 ◼ ► things like the widgets and the the new liquid glassification of it i i did you get to see that
01:33:36 ◼ ► in person i haven't seen it in person i didn't get a carplay i didn't get a carplay briefing but i
01:33:41 ◼ ► tried it in my car and it's it's very good i mean yeah it looks good it looks great and the thing about
01:33:47 ◼ ► carplay ultra is like why would i need carplay ultra to add like a weather widget to my carplay
01:33:54 ◼ ► screen isn't that possible on carplay 1.0 right and it is now because you have the widget you have widget
01:34:03 ◼ ► my rental car my rental car back from cupertino to sfo and the cincinnati reds were playing so i just had
01:34:12 ◼ ► the live activity up on the carplay screen and it's like that's perfect like yeah yeah lots of great
01:34:16 ◼ ► touches on carplay yeah that makes me wonder why that took so long right because it sort of seems like
01:34:21 ◼ ► that's the point of the whole heavy heavy push towards widgets is the idea of third-party
01:34:29 ◼ ► developers writing software that isn't really software in the traditional sense like you cannot
01:34:35 ◼ ► have third parties writing software that runs on the interface of a car it has to be limited
01:34:40 ◼ ► for safety and regulatory compliance but widgets you know that's the whole point of them is you know you
01:34:45 ◼ ► get some space it's you've got these severe constraints but you can present a baseball game
01:34:51 ◼ ► that updates you know as the score changes and the runners you know the little little dots move around
01:34:58 ◼ ► the bases seems like something that could have been there earlier but it's better late than never
01:35:02 ◼ ► i really believe that they thought they would announce carplay next generation carplay in
01:35:07 ◼ ► june of 2022 and they expected automakers to flock to them and say we want this let's do it within the
01:35:13 ◼ ► next year and then they got crickets in response except for aston martin so they pivoted which is
01:35:19 ◼ ► good i'm glad they pivoted and didn't put all their chips on one thing but yeah too long what i've heard
01:35:25 ◼ ► about that is and i know the mercedes ceo is on the record saying i don't blame him but saying that we
01:35:33 ◼ ► don't you know we're mercedes-benz we're not going to give another company even apple control over the
01:35:39 ◼ ► look of our dashboard that is too integral to the mercedes brand i get that you know especially for a
01:35:45 ◼ ► premium brand like mercedes um but what i've heard is from a couple people is that from most of the car
01:35:55 ◼ ► makers that's not the thinking it's not we don't want to cede control over the look of the dashboard to
01:36:01 ◼ ► apple it's really more apple the carplay ultra comes in with a whole bunch of high level technical
01:36:17 ◼ ► the the parts of the car that are a computer need to be yeah the sensors and that the car companies were
01:36:26 ◼ ► like yeah this shit's all way more expensive than the components that we've got in our cars right now
01:36:31 ◼ ► and it's it's really and that what was surprising to apple was that the the apple mindset is oh that
01:36:40 ◼ ► would be awesome so we'll we'll put that screen on every iphone right yeah that's a you know and
01:36:45 ◼ ► cost be damned and that most other companies don't think like that most other companies look at the cost
01:36:52 ◼ ► first and then try to get the best well here's how much we're going to spend on the screen now let's get the
01:36:59 ◼ ► best screen not here's this awesome screen let's make it let's raise the price of the car to make
01:37:04 ◼ ► it work or even here are these software features we've developed but we need this type of screen
01:37:09 ◼ ► to do it so let's go get that screen like right and that it's the reason it's taking longer than even
01:37:16 ◼ ► apple might have expected is that these things are spec'd out years in advance you know and so even
01:37:26 ◼ ► if they're committed to it in 2020 early 2024 they might still be looking at 27 or 28 before those
01:37:37 ◼ ► cars have the spec you know meet meet the specs that car play ultra demands that it really does have
01:37:42 ◼ ► very high level component demands of the car maker not just oh just make bigger screens that's it it's
01:37:51 ◼ ► it's a lot of technical stuff and other companies aren't aren't like apple in terms of oh let's
01:37:56 ◼ ► quickly adopt this no yeah uh yeah car play good year for car play good year for apple watch tv
01:38:03 ◼ ► tv uh poor tv os yeah we made fun of it on my live show oh yeah eli did and i think that was sort of
01:38:11 ◼ ► a cheap shot and i didn't know i didn't want to argue with him because we had so much to cover but
01:38:15 ◼ ► you know on the other hand i feel like i i watched my apple tv almost all of my television watching goes
01:38:23 ◼ ► through apple tv and i love it and the more i read about the in shittification of all the other
01:38:28 ◼ ► set-top box platforms and the ads and the tracking and everything i'm so glad apple is in this and it's
01:38:35 ◼ ► like how much do we want it to change every year i don't know not much i mean it i think it was jason
01:38:41 ◼ ► snell who did like his he did like a streaming box showdown or something where he tested out yeah some
01:38:48 ◼ ► roku some fire sticks and the apple tv and like from reading what he wrote the roku and the fire tv have
01:38:54 ◼ ► just been so beat to the ground with ads and tracking and everything like the apple tv is
01:39:00 ◼ ► what i use we have three tvs in the house we have three apple tvs it's not even a debate it's like
01:39:05 ◼ ► that's the only way to watch tv it's apple tv yeah i'm not sure what to make of the fact that they're
01:39:11 ◼ ► going to vertical posters from horizontal ones yeah you know is that change for changes sake because i kind
01:39:18 ◼ ► of like the 16 i think they're roughly 16 to 9 but i like the idea that in the current like tv os 18
01:39:26 ◼ ► the posters for the things you're going through are 16 to 9 so they are sort of representative
01:39:33 ◼ ► of the screen and i know movie posters are traditionally vertically oriented but i feel
01:39:39 ◼ ► like that's a little weird i don't know it feels a little i know netflix changed to netflix changed to
01:39:44 ◼ ► portrait at some point recently so it's just a a thing that's happening i think right so maybe it's
01:39:50 ◼ ► just following the industry trend but anyway good year for wwdc that's about it for me anything else
01:39:56 ◼ ► you wanted to cover no not that i i think we got most of it i guess we forgot vision os but yeah well
01:40:03 ◼ ► you know what i will it's a good add-on i i will say i know i've seen a bunch of people do the same
01:40:08 ◼ ► thing like hey apple hasn't forgotten vision os like it's really a lot of improvements i mean they it's
01:40:13 ◼ ► good yeah it really is and i feel like last year was the oh here's all the stuff we really wanted
01:40:21 ◼ ► to ship in 1.0 but we didn't it's the nature of shipping we had to cut a bunch of stuff we've added
01:40:28 ◼ ► it back in this it's it's well i was going to say it's i was going to call it vision os 3 it's
01:40:34 ◼ ► vision os 26 it's 24 years of upgrades uh but it really is sort of the 2.0 vision for the platform
01:40:43 ◼ ► and nope no pun intended and you know i i don't know i continue to be very bullish on vision as a
01:40:52 ◼ ► platform and i don't i really don't think apple is as disappointed in the sales of vision pro so far as
01:41:00 ◼ ► people would think i i don't really think they had that much higher expectations i think if they're
01:41:05 ◼ ► disappointed in anything it's not sales but developer support for the platform yeah that they're just
01:41:11 ◼ ► there just aren't that many and you know right you at nine to five mac like somebody announces a new
01:41:18 ◼ ► vision app they're going to send you the press release there just isn't that much really no right
01:41:23 ◼ ► so i think that's the disappointment and i think it gets to the larger question which we don't have
01:41:28 ◼ ► time for of apple's developer relations status which kind of went untalked about at wwdc unsurprisingly
01:41:36 ◼ ► but yeah but i i think their heads down and that the the teams at vision os i've i watched some of the
01:41:43 ◼ ► wdc sessions it's really really they're they're full speed ahead you know and they've got again no pun
01:41:49 ◼ ► they've got a vision for the platform and the new avatars what do they call them personas personas
01:41:59 ◼ ► 1.0 and then they added the spatial persona aspect of it and now with vision os 26 it's it's night and
01:42:07 ◼ ► day like yeah you joke that your show in 2023 where jaws was like we don't like the term uncanny valley
01:42:14 ◼ ► or whatever they've gotten out of uncanny valley i think it's getting very close anyway in 20 yeah
01:42:20 ◼ ► it's to the point where when i got the the demo of it it it freaked me out like when i saw my
01:42:28 ◼ ► original persona two years ago i was like oh that's cool that does look like me and i am sort of floating
01:42:32 ◼ ► there and here i'm talking to somebody and yeah it kind of looks like them and this time when i made my
01:42:37 ◼ ► persona and they put it right in front of me it was freaky because it's like holy shit that's me and it
01:42:42 ◼ ► was like the right size it was like a completely realistic size of my head and i'm like i'm like
01:42:49 ◼ ► oh whoa that's really weird i've never seen myself before yeah that's very strange so anyway good year
01:42:56 ◼ ► for them too i i'm very bullish on it and i think they need to make new hardware that is more affordable
01:43:02 ◼ ► and less heavy and all sorts of things and i think they're hard at work on it and it's going to be a
01:43:08 ◼ ► bigger thing and then people are going people are going to say when it becomes i think maybe not a
01:43:15 ◼ ► hit product but a successful platform they're going to say ah finally they made it cheaper they should
01:43:21 ◼ ► have done this originally they should have shipped it for fifteen hundred dollars originally not really
01:43:27 ◼ ► seeing that there was no way to ship it in twenty twenty three for fifteen hundred dollars yeah
01:43:32 ◼ ► it's not how it works right it's not how it works so anyway chance good good to have you back on the
01:43:37 ◼ ► show everybody of course can follow your fine reporting and writing work at nine to five mac anything else
01:43:43 ◼ ► you want to do a shout out for two podcasts happy hour and daily just check those out daily and they're