The Accidental Tech Podcast

105: Do You Want to Sell Sugar Phones for the Rest of Your Life?


  market you're totally right margo you're totally right Marco you're totally right [TS]

  where does Apple you score data John I know this question marks after all those [TS]

  bullet points in the people he called us and told us and i couldnt find those [TS]

  emails I think this is far from last week when I think marco was talking [TS]

  saying that he didn't know where Apple used card and it was in response to your [TS]

  data sync in particular the iCloud Core Data Sync that was a disaster [TS]

  yes not just plain old core data and this is in response to the idea that [TS]

  Apple what which APS Apple dog food and by the way we did someone email dog [TS]

  footing mean I sent him that we could be dealing with it it just means using your [TS]

  own stuff like if you're making an ABI in this specific case and you don't use [TS]

  that API yourself chances are we'll be that great because you won't know the [TS]

  pain of using it like we made an API for you go use it but we don't know what [TS]

  it's like you don't have to use it anyway the suggestions I think people [TS]

  sent us for Apple applications that use CoreData iCloud syncing are the trailers [TS]

  app on iOS and sinking for keyboard shortcuts between Mac and iOS was that [TS]

  the only reason we got sent that so once I saw yes yeah and what's funny so so [TS]

  the trailers nap you know find that's how much data is that actually syncing [TS]

  between devices and that's fine [TS]

  keyboard shortcuts think I've actually heard many people complaining of the [TS]

  shortcuts are not syncing so if that is using Core Data iCloud syncing that is [TS]

  really not a good recommendation for even if it's just too obscure apps to [TS]

  the kind of you know the exception that proves the rule is not something that [TS]

  underlies like their major apps unlike for example cloud kit which they're [TS]

  building major applications like photos and everything on top of words like it [TS]

  that doesn't work people are gonna notice whereas if the trailers are [TS]

  operating keyboard shortcuts Inc doesn't work maybe some piano but it's not like [TS]

  you know it's destroying their family photos when I was when was it was when [TS]

  iOS eat was in beta I believe I don't even think that I had upgraded any of my [TS]

  devices time to the beach at this point but my keyboard keyboard shortcuts was [TS]

  completely bored until I had everything on Iowa State yosemite and it was [TS]

  infuriating dunno if you if you notice about me gentlemen but I tend to use [TS]

  emoji occasionally and i have shortcuts for most of my frequently used emoji and [TS]

  i felt absolutely crippled without them it was a dark dark time I'm so sorry to [TS]

  hear anyway so we talked in inner episode 10 2012 ballots in interview [TS]

  with Andy minutiae that was in objective CIO and Hendrick wrote in and said man [TS]

  we should really talk about it so I guess we didn't really give it a fair [TS]

  time and I think one of one of you guys I guess John had written a few things [TS]

  that we should probably also bring up from that interview one thing and maybe [TS]

  we did talk about I'm vaguely remember talking about the thing but I [TS]

  remember this paragraph or did the highlighted bit talking about react but [TS]

  any used to work for Apple so what it was like when he was at a time when he [TS]

  was there is one of the complaint I have about my time at Apple's that because [TS]

  the culture doesn't value learning nobody reads nobody knows what's going [TS]

  on the broader community people didn't know about react at all [TS]

  react in that region that doesn't make me feel good because then it's like a [TS]

  bad idea that have about any big company the idea that Apple still with all these [TS]

  super smart people making amazing products but they're dead they're sort [TS]

  of insular that they're not like they're interested in what they're doing but not [TS]

  so much is that what's going on elsewhere I don't know just one person's [TS]

  complaint about you know obviously one person working the whole company they [TS]

  work in a small part of the company and there's there's obviously evidence that [TS]

  places where this is not the case I would hold swift as an example it's [TS]

  clear to design a swift heavily influenced by other languages all of [TS]

  which are you know being developed outside of Apple so it's obviously not [TS]

  as you know in a weird looking insular as this complaint makes it sound but the [TS]

  idea that could exist at all inside Apple's kind of disappointing to me [TS]

  yeah and and you know this is this is a fairly credible and relevant statement [TS]

  because it was on was on UI kit in I don't know exactly what capacity but I [TS]

  think a pretty high one it's so so he was a right where the discussion of [TS]

  react with the most relevant in UI kit that's exactly where this is important [TS]

  he was there and he is as far as I'm aware pretty well respected so you know [TS]

  i i wouldn't take this comment lightly in fact when I when I first read this I [TS]

  was I was really surprised that it didn't get more attention because to me [TS]

  it's it's kind of a bombshell to say that because the culture doesn't value [TS]

  learning nobody reads nobody knows what's going on in the broader community [TS]

  those are big statements to me especially from somebody like this you [TS]

  like I don't think he goes around like throwing around phrases like that [TS]

  lightly but he also made by somebody who left right and that person left probably [TS]

  because they weren't getting enough of you know there is new interesting novel [TS]

  things [TS]

  opening outside of apple an apple in some respects has to be more [TS]

  conservative because you know they're big they've got a big operation down [TS]

  there they can't just be chasing after the show anything else are the [TS]

  directions and as we've discussed and passions it seems like the technical [TS]

  resources that Apple are fairly overextended like it's very hard work [TS]

  their tight deadlines they're expected to do amazing things and put in long [TS]

  hours that doesn't leave much time left to be sort of reading blogs about [TS]

  interesting new technology to me and not influence and really liked it ends up [TS]

  personal interest you read about it but like how relevant is it because it's [TS]

  like what you just come in one day oh I have an idea guys let's not forget about [TS]

  you I can do something that incorporate some of the ideas that i've seen [TS]

  elsewhere by reading this programming block among other frameworks they don't [TS]

  go great great let's play let's go do that right that's not something that [TS]

  happens if you're just doing it on your own like the people who are super [TS]

  interesting that I would imagine leave Apple because you're not going to get to [TS]

  do that very few people are going to get to make that kind of radical decision [TS]

  and have it take place against with the example of it actually taking place [TS]

  because a very important person you know an idea influenced by lots of other [TS]

  languages and managed to get done even that was a fairly large effort over a [TS]

  long period of time and that's [TS]

  a situation that's probably not going to say and he really loved reacting the [TS]

  ideas inherited what could he do with those ideas that Apple [TS]

  than you know pursue something else where you can use used one of the things [TS]

  that's really tough about consulting is that if I do some sort of self-directed [TS]

  learning outside of work because goodness knows I'm not gonna have the [TS]

  time at work unless I'm quote unquote on the bench and not building a client and [TS]

  not earning money and generally a waste of space where do they actually use that [TS]

  phrase on the bench I do I think it's common phrase that's certainly something [TS]

  I've always said which is funny cause I'm not much of an athlete it comes from [TS]

  sports but whatever I don't maybe that's bothersome to most to me that's not as [TS]

  bad as circle back and keep me in the loop and all the other god-awful [TS]

  corporatism parking lot parking [TS]

  exactly anyway so if I do some self-directed learning let's say I don't [TS]

  know maybe I learn a little bit about note for whatever reason the likelihood [TS]

  that I'm going to be able to bring that back to the office in a direct way is [TS]

  virtually nonexistent now there's a lot of ways in which I can bring it back to [TS]

  the office in an indirect way for example a more robust knowledge of [TS]

  JavaScript is going to serve me well when I'm writing JavaScript for a web [TS]

  browser but the likelihood that I'm ever going to be asked to do a nude project [TS]

  for work is virtually nonexistent and that's a bummer and that sucks and it's [TS]

  not that we don't learn at work but it's hard it's hard when what you're learning [TS]

  is so far removed from what you're doing day today and I could make and I think [TS]

  john was making a pretty solid argument that react well yes it's all you I but [TS]

  the mechanisms are so far removed from what Apple doesn't UIKit how do you [TS]

  really applied that if you're a you I can engineer kind of so discontent and [TS]

  agitation like boy if you really turned on by these exciting developments that [TS]

  are happening elsewhere in the new go back to work and realize [TS]

  i cant like forget about it and direct application of knowledge like I could do [TS]

  I get the right now but like I can't even incorporate these ideas into my [TS]

  work to the degree that I think I should be able to get some ideas ideas are [TS]

  small I guess I can apply them to what I'm actually doing in this new UI [TS]

  framework but some ideas are large and it's like this idea of money make sense [TS]

  that the scale of like how is the API design how was what is the model of UI [TS]

  interaction like the model of reactive so much different than i love you i [TS]

  kidded such a big idea that you know it's like structure not like details [TS]

  that have you apply that if you're not going to say I'm gonna make some home [TS]

  who you know I paradigm and that's not something you get to do ya right do we [TS]

  want to do you a quick word from a friend and then we can talk about some [TS]

  car related stuff our first bunch of this week is our friends once again at [TS]

  cards against humanity now last last time they sponsored us they sent John it [TS]

  hoster to review instead of doing a typical a dream I actually have no ad [TS]

  copy for them they didn't give me any so this week they have sent John another [TS]

  toaster John what did you think of your current duster alright no no contact us [TS]

  when you want to know why they don't talk about toasters listen to the last [TS]

  episode this toasters the Panasonic NBG 110 p [TS]

  raining when I haven't listened to them in a long time so but my recollection is [TS]

  that something that I talked about on the show was the idea that I seem [TS]

  toasters that seemed to use different technology to to heat the food I was [TS]

  like boy this is great I bet these are gonna hit up faster in heat more evenly [TS]

  and pretty soon all toasters will be like this [TS]

  when I went to go buy toasters I looked around I didn't see any high-tech those [TS]

  who think maybe I was just imagining it was bad and the eighties and nineties I [TS]

  just forgot about it but all the toasters back to the same old you know [TS]

  designed that I'd seen in the past while this Panasonic coasters very close to [TS]

  the sort of futuristic you know advanced toasters that I was thinking of that I [TS]

  thought all toasters would be like it has a hearing on the bottom looks [TS]

  certain normal but it's got a heating element to getting out into the top one [TS]

  of which is near infrared and one of which is far infrared one of them [TS]

  someone in the chatroom tell me which is which I'm assuming it's the near gives [TS]

  off lots of visible light so it's almost like toaster has a big light inside it [TS]

  but that's actually part of the heating element anyway [TS]

  bottom line is this thing make toaster really fast it was like a minute and 30 [TS]

  seconds faster than maybe expensive toaster nothing like double the speed [TS]

  right and was fairly even is only one element on the bottom 20 mins tops that [TS]

  would you put if you put four slices of toast there's not quite as good as [TS]

  having two elements eating them but wow is it definitely fast is that faster [TS]

  than a slot toaster at me because that's one of the advantages that the slot [TS]

  toaster people usually site is it goes faster maybe I do not want to time it [TS]

  against it is time to get my other sister but in other respects this [TS]

  toasters weird like my Panasonic which is sort of a kitchen appliance brand [TS]

  least not in this country that it's very vertical and operate the controls are [TS]

  below the door and set it to the side so it's like saving horizontal counter [TS]

  space the cord comes out of the front right corner of the toaster understand [TS]

  maybe it's meant to be tucked into something but I don't think you're [TS]

  supposed to put it you know [TS]

  walls close to it it's it's very confusing like it's got a power button [TS]

  on it [TS]

  power but not like a power button to turn on the 22 toast food but a power [TS]

  button as in now to toasters on now you can use the controls that are on the [TS]

  toaster like it and so you need to remember to turn it off or maybe you [TS]

  don't members are not our nose like a parasitic power loss if you don't turn [TS]

  the power off it's very strange and the controls in the front this is big on [TS]

  having presets [TS]

  where it's like instead of it does have control for temperature controls for [TS]

  time though but your digital and the temperature settings are like five or [TS]

  six little different settings that you can set and you know how to do each time [TS]

  but it also has buttons for various types of food and if I had to guess what [TS]

  these you know what kind of buttons you would have a toaster six of them I would [TS]

  not get the first one is toast fine I guess that one second one is waffle [TS]

  frozen waffle goes the third bunny is a role and it also says reheat I guess [TS]

  you're reading roles the fourth one is frozen pizza if the money is quick to [TS]

  reheat chicken leg and the last one is hash browns shows versions of all peeps [TS]

  chicken hash brown like these bugs confuse me I feel like if they were just [TS]

  gone and I you just had to use the normal controls that would be better [TS]

  anyway this is a very interesting post I think this was the sweet home pick for [TS]

  the best toaster it toast bread really fast it's kind of small you can't fit [TS]

  for full-size pieces of bread into it the trade does slide out when you open [TS]

  the door [TS]

  it has a lot of things to recommend it not bad but it's a weird it seems like [TS]

  it might be it do you think it would be a fair pic if you had like you do [TS]

  concerns about counter space usage it's very high though in like I think I'll [TS]

  give up like it's just about like half an inch to narrative to put two slices [TS]

  of bread side-by-side as frustrating I like you try to put it says a for a [TS]

  slice toaster but you gotta have some pretty darn small bread you cannot get [TS]

  four and it's frustrating when you get something that's a little bit because [TS]

  you can fit them in their alleged and smashing together in that that just [TS]

  doesn't feel comfortable so I wouldn't sacrifice I would I would give up that [TS]

  easily just be able to hit four slices of toast in it but can't argue with [TS]

  speed Superfest the bread slice count that as poster advertising the cantos it [TS]

  once it's kind of like being number of people that tense advertise they can [TS]

  sleep habits like you basically always have to like add to [TS]

  John how do you think this toaster ranks among the other now to that you have [TS]

  stuff it has a lot of things to recommend that over the previous poster [TS]

  but the previous poster is just so much more normal like it's slower but I think [TS]

  it did the previous one did a better job at four slices of bread and actually fit [TS]

  four slices it seemed even more evenly the controls are definitely more [TS]

  conventional I would probably pick this weird crazy fancy toaster over the [TS]

  previous one just because it has some advantages the other one is like just [TS]

  does everything ok I think I would I don't know it's tough choice I think it [TS]

  would probably just edging the bread in there and just be happy as opposed to [TS]

  the other one which is just kind of like you know the dials and all that business [TS]

  this doesn't have the dow problem you said that you only have like six [TS]

  settings set about once you find out which of the six settings works best for [TS]

  your bread you don't have to change it you just hit the power button it toast I [TS]

  think I'd go with the fancy one although I would never have complained about it [TS]

  all the time you unlike my pants does to reach the only complaint I have about it [TS]

  is a stupid spring in the door which apparently is only on my particular unit [TS]

  alright well thanks a lot two cards against humanity for sponsoring our show [TS]

  once again check them out cards against humanity [TS]

  all right that was I love this I hope it never stops [TS]

  sponsors do something but I hope so alright so so long time ago in a galaxy [TS]

  far far away [TS]

  that's a Star Wars reference John we started to a car themed podcast called [TS]

  neutral the end at first everyone was like John her back in there is another [TS]

  guy [TS]

  and then after a few episodes they were like yeah still talking but all of a [TS]

  sudden like a phoenix except not really at all [TS]

  neutrals kind of coming back from the dead because here it is on our Apple [TS]

  themes technology show their ease humongous talk these days that Apple [TS]

  might make a car I don't know about you but I'm feeling pretty darn smug right [TS]

  now how about you guys know I'm I'm scared that they're actually gonna do it [TS]

  I really I really don't think they should not know anything about whether [TS]

  any of you are credible I mean there's to me there so many reasons why this [TS]

  might be a terrible hit here but let's look at the source of your let's see [TS]

  where you know I have a bunch of links in there where who is saying that Apple [TS]

  is doing anything having to do with while nine to five access on the [TS]

  talk about who they hired hired head of mercedes-benz R&D I think he did like [TS]

  the Edit interactive like this you know the screen type stuff inside [TS]

  mercedes-benz and there are two things like whatever like you mean that we know [TS]

  they have car play that's not like a secret and you hired a guy who does the [TS]

  car place for mercedes-benz finance and I'm to buy back probably credible does [TS]

  probably happen but it doesn't make us freaked out too much but then the Wall [TS]

  Street Journal weighs in on the whole issue at all Street Journal post this [TS]

  big thing that is pretty unequivocal like a wall street journal is not a [TS]

  rumor side and their their record a track record for Apple is pretty good [TS]

  they tend to get a lot of these sort of but we assume are controlled leaks and [TS]

  stuff but this was like it was the title Apple gears up to challenge test Leno [TS]

  electric cars and it's a big long article and is talking all about that [TS]

  you know that that they're secretly working hundreds of employees is [TS]

  secretly working creating an Apple branded electric car [TS]

  and lots of important people are on the project and it started two years ago and [TS]

  they've got to engineers from Ford working on it and the person who's [TS]

  making it was given permission to create thousand-person team and to push [TS]

  employees are different parts of the company all the same things that [TS]

  applicant of you know like when the iPhone was made with forestall going [TS]

  around it and snagging all the good engineers you know the price of the [TS]

  company's and you wanna come work on our project or whatever [TS]

  an apple spokesman declined to comment so you know we're not saying this is a [TS]

  hundred percent slam dunk but suddenly you start to notice like I had not been [TS]

  taking any of this Apple make cars that series The at all because there are just [TS]

  so many reasons like Margaret said for Apple to hire all these car related [TS]

  people like they have car playback that explains almost any car hire I don't [TS]

  know about that I mean car place is really a very small move in the grand [TS]

  scheme of things like it's it's not a big initiatives far as we can tell so [TS]

  far from what we see in the outside and I I should clarify so I I did my app is [TS]

  compatible but nothing none of what I'm saying is informed by any inside [TS]

  knowledge of that I don't have any inside knowledge of that so sharply is [TS]

  it is a very small project that as far as I can tell is having a very slow [TS]

  start it's the use by very few cars its use by very few people it's usually very [TS]

  few apps and among the cars and people and apps that are used with car play it [TS]

  usually gets mixed reviews and I don't know and I love it the fault of the head [TS]

  units or the controls or the software I have no idea but it it seems like a [TS]

  pretty pretty tiny hobby project so I don't think they would be hiring [TS]

  allegedly hundreds of people making the giant secret research lab just to make [TS]

  like the next version of car play that day I don't think that's possible that's [TS]

  the information we can't confirm we can confirm things more or less like who was [TS]

  hired to work it out on those of the the confirmed facts of this case that you [TS]

  know they actually check on and like you know they hired the guy from our and our [TS]

  savings Rd they'd maybe they hired some guy from four to configure thats alright [TS]

  but you can't confirm hundreds of people being moved from division a division be [TS]

  you know me like that's that's all just kind of rumors and stuff so i'm saying [TS]

  is I called all of the news about a particular executive or a particular [TS]

  higher important if we heard if we hear about hiring somebody that probably an [TS]

  important person in those are in the ones and twos and carpet told explains [TS]

  any of those higher right when they said is if they really are hundreds or [TS]

  thousands of people often some off-site location working on a big project [TS]

  that doesn't seem like our place in its current form but it could be many other [TS]

  things like helping to make you know design the entire interior and interface [TS]

  of a card that they don't happen to make that would be a significant undertaking [TS]

  they require lots of people [TS]

  partner specific car maker by the way mixed in with all this are the stories [TS]

  from earlier months ago like Tesla hiring away all the Apple employees and [TS]

  going in both directions [TS]

  test was hired by Apple employees which I kinda makes sense to me when I read [TS]

  those stories it's like well yeah you wouldn't want to go work for testing and [TS]

  it's kind of a shame because what I merely popped into my mind is you know [TS]

  you on mosque walking through a garden with us I'm Apple engineer in saying to [TS]

  your cell sheriff owns interests your life with me and change the world [TS]

  Casey that's a reference by the way like who is this year is on the other foot [TS]

  now it's like well what's more exciting like revolutionising the world cars with [TS]

  electric cars or during with Apple's doing and maybe it's closer maybe the [TS]

  toss up a certain Apple vs Pepsi got I can imagine not being very difficult for [TS]

  test lead to higher way Apple employees who work are nuts because you don't get [TS]

  to work on cars it outright or do you and then that Apple tried to buy Tesla [TS]

  you know about the people they again failed the unsubstantiated some people [TS]

  predicting that Apple will buy data some people particularly did draw them but [TS]

  every time you read something like that it's like yeah yeah it's easy to write [TS]

  that story but there are so many things that we have had retroactivity confirmed [TS]

  about Apple trying to buy companies that do you know refuse them or [TS]

  considered buying companies and didn't like trying to drive by by Dropbox and [TS]

  are really buying Dropbox and they're down inside Palm Way back in the day [TS]

  because people can remember that like these are not the best thing about all [TS]

  these stories they're not entirely plausible these rumors they don't I [TS]

  don't think any of us hundred percent believe any of these because the [TS]

  evidence is not there is a part of that all of us get to the point where we're [TS]

  willing to entertain the thought right one of the reasons why I never thought [TS]

  Apple would make a TV set which have talked about a few times here before is [TS]

  that the TV set business is just kind of a messy business it like it it's a it's [TS]

  a very very big like you know commodity business supply chain business but not [TS]

  know where that that leads to a lot of profit usually unlike the phone business [TS]

  in the end their computer business and it's also not an item that is frequently [TS]

  updated and upgraded typically people buy TVs like every decade or whatever [TS]

  it's it's not like every couple years kinda like a phone or computer and [TS]

  there's not a lot of ways and Apple TV as a friend from whatever we know today [TS]

  TV world to be there's not really a lot of ways and Apple TV could really [TS]

  meaningfully differentiate itself from what the current little AppleTV puck box [TS]

  400 bucks does or or what [TS]

  another one could do so it seems like getting into the TV set business is not [TS]

  only unnecessary as they can get all the value they needed just making the box [TS]

  but also probably not wise is it just it's kind of just kind of a messy [TS]

  business well talk about a messy business about the car business and in [TS]

  the car business is not only extraordinarily expensive to get started [TS]

  and and to run and and of course no Apple has the cash if they wanted to [TS]

  build a car factory in design cars they could whether they should and whether [TS]

  they would is a very different story but certainly they have the money they could [TS]

  afford to set this up even though it is extremely expensive the big problem I [TS]

  see with it though is that you like like the television business [TS]

  the car business is just really kinda messy Apple doesn't really get into a [TS]

  lot of those like Messi businesses that often like cell phones are pretty [TS]

  missing while they were never a cell phone carrier for instance I know they [TS]

  tried to be that that was the first thing to say [TS]

  carriers can we do have fun without involving carriers and they pursued that [TS]

  right and they just determined no you can't be we need to carry right it's the [TS]

  type of I know it's not a business that they like to be in but there are [TS]

  businesses that have been messy Intel Apple entered them and sort of clarified [TS]

  when I look at this whole situation here I think to myself who is the apple of [TS]

  the car business if you want to I would argue BMW but I am hugely bias and I [TS]

  would say there isn't one i mean there there is a mean as just as car analogies [TS]

  are often used frequently misused in tech discussions and debates in this [TS]

  this massive Cornell you there is no equivalent there is no fair point and I [TS]

  think there's a hundred percent there's an Apple the car business thats Tesla [TS]

  the reason it's Tesla is not so much for anything like Oh cuz they have big [TS]

  tablet on that for their the Apple the carbons know that the Apple the car [TS]

  business because time for jan had to come out there re-imagined but the car [TS]

  could be and they took out all the crap in the car [TS]

  getting rid of hydraulic brakes is like there's nothing to go see a test [TS]

  tomorrow s there's no car there there is no car inside that car like you look [TS]

  around and it is a big thing in the back seat to go and what the hell is the car [TS]

  and into the interior is no like and the massive simplification of the car like [TS]

  it lol how many parts the car has a lot of these things like you know ten [TS]

  thousand coupons retired to make our whatever like the number of parts in in [TS]

  a test look compared to the number of parts and internal combustion engine [TS]

  alone let alone the entire car surrounding it is just night and day and [TS]

  so that's the type of simplification not the testament of electric car obviously [TS]

  you know there's another reason I think they like Apple but that type of [TS]

  simplification of like we're not just going to make a car we're going to make [TS]

  something that is simpler and better and you know has fewer parts and less things [TS]

  that can go wrong and different characteristics and think people are [TS]

  gonna tell us can't because of you know range problems or you know that it's not [TS]

  just make nice noises like internal combustion engine also things but we're [TS]

  going to do it anyway and it's like Apple's new Apple didn't invent the mp3 [TS]

  player the mobile phone or anything else to do not about the electric car [TS]

  many people have been made before them and most of them have not been that [TS]

  great bike from the GME V-one way back in the day with acid batteries all up [TS]

  through all the different models that are hybrids and the things that have [TS]

  gone in between in Tesla is you know take the Apple approaches are leading [TS]

  from the top [TS]

  doing whatever it takes to make a good electric car which are not to cost like [TS]

  a hundred grand right but you know its first electric car that people actually [TS]

  say is a good car and that's totally an apple type of thing to do and the whole [TS]

  the way that it's made it is such a difference you know dealing with all the [TS]

  internal combustion everything right so that makes me think that if not [TS]

  impossible for a company to do an apple like think the cars Tesla shows how [TS]

  difficult that is because you have to deal with you know dealer organizations [TS]

  making so you can sell your car in your states and all the crazy government [TS]

  regulations and not guarantee that even though the government subsidies that [TS]

  test was going to come out on top and blah blah blah blah but I think test of [TS]

  the apple of cars and that's kind of bad for Apple making a car because it was [TS]

  already in half of cars with the hell that we're gonna do if they can't buy [TS]

  test to see here's the thing I know you're wrong that Tesla is the apple of [TS]

  cars and in the reason you're wrong is because a software update actually made [TS]

  the Tesla faster who police said that all the time [TS]

  with every release in the same hardware as the days I did that by starting off [TS]

  beings [TS]

  crappy leadership the couple seconds here just being silly oh I forgot the [TS]

  other rumor involved with the car thing that we talked about it a preview shows [TS]

  like you know minivan spotted with weird stuff on the roof [TS]

  reportedly Apple self-driving cars and we talked about that said that is very [TS]

  easily explained by Apple doing something like Street View which we [TS]

  think they need is Apple interested in self-driving cars that's a that's [TS]

  totally and Apple style simplification like you even need to drive the car but [TS]

  i think is not as interested in Google as Google is in that kind of basic [TS]

  research at this point [TS]

  yeah and and for whatever it's worth the Wall Street Journal article said [TS]

  specifically that a person familiar with the project said that self driving cars [TS]

  are not part of Apple's current plan and that's also I mean that's for the best [TS]

  mean how how well do you think Apple does with really complicated academic a [TS]

  I kind of problems that's that's not really their strong points and honestly [TS]

  I think at this point the Apple's ability to make a card no matter how [TS]

  many people they hire 900 engineers they put on it [TS]

  look how long it took tests led to make its first car with the help of [TS]

  essentially buying lotus's and strapping its batteries and engines like Apple has [TS]

  a leg up on them that they have a billion dollars and that that helps you [TS]

  along significantly but it takes a long time to build expertise and even if you [TS]

  can buy expertise takes a long time to buy expertise and get it all working [TS]

  together like again I think they could do it but it would be a long road and if [TS]

  Apple decided it wants to make a car because it believes cars can be [TS]

  simplified and can be made better or whatever the obvious movies 2 by Tesla [TS]

  because they've already done so much of that work and their philosophy of [TS]

  simplification and reimagining the car as something both better and less [TS]

  complex than it was before [TS]

  totally in line with the type of stuff that Apple does just that Apple [TS]

  so has there been a time in the past when Apple has taken a product that was [TS]

  basically fully formed in bought the company and made it their own I think [TS]

  what was it sound jam became iTunes is that right [TS]

  had worked out well that's sort of kind of what I'm talking about but if they [TS]

  bought Tesla don't you imagine they would keep the test lybrand like they [TS]

  would make it the Apple car like that in beats is probably the obvious answer my [TS]

  question right i mean they didn't even want to change the branded a headphone [TS]

  maker I would imagine they would keep the test the branch the so many things [TS]

  about this just made me really skeptical that that these reports are getting the [TS]

  right big picture like you know you can you can pick up bits and pieces of [TS]

  information here in there and you can say oh they hired this person who has a [TS]

  car background and it seemed that they're making a big lab and you know [TS]

  all the study you can put together bits and pieces but I really don't know if if [TS]

  the conclusion is well of course the carcass there are so many reasons why [TS]

  that is not an apple like business to enter and you know not to say Apple [TS]

  can't change and enter new businesses that's how progress is made but this [TS]

  just doesn't seem like like like the right business to enter a mean you know [TS]

  you mess this up people died like it it's very serious it's very cumbersome [TS]

  of a business to enter to to be in at all it is extremely hyper competitive [TS]

  hyper-competitive I would call it there are large barriers to entry which is [TS]

  kind of the opposite of hyper competitive like the fact that GM's [TS]

  still how competitive can it really be where'd you go to business the [TS]

  government put you back into business really that great new car student to [TS]

  kill people sometimes but I like it all work out in the end like [TS]

  it's their high barriers to entry but like the argument I seen a lot of places [TS]

  like the view from the gym executive that the car business like your kind of [TS]

  the TV business the car business is not like a higher profit businesses low [TS]

  margin it's difficult to people saying they whether it's about TVs about cars [TS]

  like them why and how you even in this business you just described your own [TS]

  business is pretty darn crappy right but you could describe the PC market the [TS]

  same way low margin it's a race to the bottom it's crappy somehow manages to [TS]

  make money there and the phone market in similar way that Apple's big thing kind [TS]

  of like Tesla this point is we find the most profitable part of the market but [TS]

  you just need the top and we make a lot of money in that part and maybe we [TS]

  expand down as we're able to but I don't think it's impossible for Apple to make [TS]

  margins on its theoretical car that would make him cry because Apple is [TS]

  better way simply the new internal combustion engine car already has the [TS]

  some of the expertise and contacts to do the battery stuff and you know they [TS]

  already buy a lot of lithium batteries yeah like there is definite synergies [TS]

  there but like I I don't entirely by the story in a bit like almost every [TS]

  organizing against it and and even the TV for knows where to get out CDs from [TS]

  that will construct something inside it like is it a low margin business AppleTV [TS]

  wouldn't be low margin you know me at like at Apple TV will not be like oh we [TS]

  make $2 every TV if Apple makes a car it will not be a low margin car I don't [TS]

  even know what the morning stars government subsidies being factored in [TS]

  but if Apple was making the Model S they can make it for less money [TS]

  just because you know you gotta have money to make money the deals you got [TS]

  out the contracts you know that Apple could make it for less money than making [TS]

  it so immediately the car has a higher margins [TS]

  so all the arguments against don't make our own is compelling to me the idea [TS]

  like that Apple is like a wider than Apple make boats while they make [TS]

  airplanes why don't they sell real estate like their you know their company [TS]

  uses technology to make people's lives better but a certain point when you [TS]

  going to like cars or constructing buildings or opening medical clinics [TS]

  around the country these are all things that Apple could do but it starts to [TS]

  drift off the path of what I picture as a business that Apple want to get into [TS]

  just because it involves technology everything involved technology this [TS]

  point so I'm I have from this one Wall Street Journal story maybe take it [TS]

  seriously but just convince me that I think you know what a few people have [TS]

  said they worried about Apple's focus you know if this is true and if they do [TS]

  not making a car like you know what the focus and I think when we look at this [TS]

  is you've heard I pretty sure steve is to say as I know Tim always says this [TS]

  which is that Apple tends to only or ideally the idea that maybe maybe not [TS]

  the actual Apple but the ideal Apple is a company that only enters markets where [TS]

  they think they can make a really meaningful difference that doesn't help [TS]

  you I does it cause don't you think they would say we can totally make a [TS]

  meaningful difference by changing the way everybody drives like this is [TS]

  totally a meaningful difference but from the product side lake we already have [TS]

  electric cars I know but they never really been done right and testing being [TS]

  choked to death by you know that the rest of the automotive industry like I [TS]

  kinda think of Tessalit way it's like a little fledging little bird then we all [TS]

  wanted to fly but getting beaten down [TS]

  and it's amazing that has done about the candle you know with government help and [TS]

  everything but like wouldn't we all feel terrible if test leaders didn't make it [TS]

  would be unfortunate like it was like we know that they've made a good car like [TS]

  the Model S is a good car care is a hundred grand a better be a good car but [TS]

  it is a good cars like the first good electric car like the roster didn't even [TS]

  apply that it has limitations on so far that's like wow so much fun did you know [TS]

  it's it's nice to drive is attractive it's got all the advantages even [TS]

  spectrometric parts really fun like they did it right and now you just keep you [TS]

  know we're gonna get cheaper one they gonna get $30,000 SUV like you want them [TS]

  to just spool up and eventually become a real car company failed that they can I [TS]

  go we didn't quite make it we're filing for bankruptcy or whatever and it won't [TS]

  be disappointed I think that shows that we want someone to come in and make a [TS]

  significant difference in the industry whether that has to involve Apple at all [TS]

  I don't know why I mean if if we don't want to keep the groaning about me but I [TS]

  don't think they're going to be pulling people off you I get to work on the car [TS]

  you know maybe kind of the interface but of course they will but not to the [TS]

  degree that like people got pulled over always tend to work like there are no [TS]

  Automotive Engineers that Apple pulled off their current project to work on the [TS]

  car automotive engineers are you know that the different skill set in [TS]

  mechanical engineering [TS]

  you know maybe the manufacturing people will be some crossover but it wouldn't [TS]

  be as big of a focus diversion as many other things that Apple does do so I am [TS]

  NOT groaning quite as much about losing focus on you know it's nice and hire new [TS]

  people are like I said that was by Tesla they come with a bunch of people are [TS]

  already know how to make cars but I was really getting at with the with the make [TS]

  a meaningful difference thing from the buyer's perspective like if you are [TS]

  buying an Apple car or let's say right now let's see your bio test look as bad [TS]

  that's the closest thing we have to what we think this might be the kind of thing [TS]

  we think this would be probably look at what the market today oh probably [TS]

  closest to it than any other vehicle may be a leaf but probably probably closer [TS]

  Tesla so if you think about that as a driver [TS]

  I mean none of us have electric cars so we don't really maybe this is not the [TS]

  right people to be speculating on this part but is there that much of a [TS]

  difference when you're driving the car when your own the car whether it's let [TS]

  your gas so much so that an apple car could be like radically different to own [TS]

  and operate and drive than any other car like i don't i don't think the [TS]

  differences are that big I think they are like other than the battery which is [TS]

  still a concern but Tesla has a built-in way to replacing everything that the [TS]

  maintenance the maintenance concerns and costs and the number of things that can [TS]

  go wrong [TS]

  like this just less stuff in the damn car's electric motors and like when the [TS]

  brakes are electric to ya gotta replace brake pads for like there's no fluids [TS]

  there is no like you know gonna hydraulic system is just there's no oil [TS]

  no gaskets is just so much stuff that you have to deal with car maintenance [TS]

  goes away and so you know I just think that is that's a different experience of [TS]

  driving a car but but what can apple bring to that that test and Nissan and [TS]

  everybody else can't I mean that's why there was just a test like but that's [TS]

  the problem but you know so what can I bring to the company's cantwell what [TS]

  they can bring to it is assured [TS]

  future for testing if they buy it right because if you are worried about Tesla [TS]

  if they're not going to make it if they can't make you know $100,000 cars are [TS]

  fun but they can't feel the $30,000 mother never going to be a player in the [TS]

  industry is you just have to come down in price a little bit you know any [TS]

  significant number of cars at Tesla can't get that done and its own Apple [TS]

  can make sure that that's that's a pretty weak argument that and obviously [TS]

  they would make they would make the UI in the interface inside much better than [TS]

  it is now hopefully I mean there are areas for simplification in the interior [TS]

  car that you would hope I mean maybe not today's appt only lost faith in their [TS]

  ability to make these interfaces but [TS]

  the apple of old you would imagine could simplify the interior of the car in the [TS]

  same whether the iPad somebody music player and the iPhone simplified phone [TS]

  interface [TS]

  again maybe it s already did that with my putting a big I bet on the dashboard [TS]

  but I don't like I don't think I'll be able to bring to bring as much to this [TS]

  as they brought to obviously as the phones or anything like that but he's [TS]

  out the questionnaire asking themselves like you know test looks like they've [TS]

  done a lot of the work so we shouldn't even bother maybe I don't know I keep [TS]

  coming back to what's in it for Apple and I think we've been dancing around [TS]

  that question you know this entire discussion and what is it that that [TS]

  doing a car would would serve for Apple now maybe would keep your engineers [TS]

  entertained we've talked on and off about how the worst reason why not say [TS]

  it's good reason but engineers designers entertained maybe whatever the case may [TS]

  be I mean we've talked about talent retention here and there over the years [TS]

  and you know that would theoretically retain talent but of course I'm also [TS]

  assuming that every nerd's also car not mad could not be further from the truth [TS]

  the only other thing I can think of is what if there's some sort of technology [TS]

  that that Apple has invented or figured out how to leverage in such a way that [TS]

  it lends itself to a vehicle rather than a piece of electronics what I'm thinking [TS]

  of is the click wheel made the iPod in many ways made the iPod the iPod still [TS]

  shelling came up with that [TS]

  click steering exactly and different that I cried so give give me an example [TS]

  technology hypothetical that you can imagine this being the case so so to [TS]

  finish my thought just very quickly in a multi-touch yet wasn't near but it was [TS]

  leveraged differently and and there are other examples I don't think I can think [TS]

  of off the top of my head but what if they had some crazy new battery [TS]

  technology and the reason it's not an iOS devices right now or or MacBooks [TS]

  right now is because it's just too freakin big deal maybe these batteries [TS]

  are hugely hugely hugely efficient they can charge in 12 seconds but but [TS]

  unfortunately they're just freakin massive and so the only thing that this [TS]

  is really good for is the electric vehicle [TS]

  granted this all hugely hypothetical but in that case maybe they would have [TS]

  something to contribute and that seems to me to be the kind of thing that that [TS]

  would make apple say you know maybe we should give the shot some sort of either [TS]

  different and interesting application of an existing technology or even better [TS]

  some sort of brand new technology that for whatever reason they just cant [TS]

  shoehorned into a iPad or an iPhone or MacBook Air MacBook Pro or whatever it [TS]

  again mister fusion argue that are a flux capacitor yeah yeah yeah but that's [TS]

  that's perhaps the least a polite thing that could possibly think of like Google [TS]

  does try to do basic research and even they don't do this type of thing there [TS]

  is no secret battery breakthrough technology that Apple has a bigger [TS]

  batteries like anyone's gonna come up with that it's going to be a university [TS]

  theoretical physicist like its first what's going to happen is the basic [TS]

  research is gonna say that something is potentially possible and then a bunch of [TS]

  people are going to try to do it in the first person to pull it off is probably [TS]

  not going to be like apple just doesn't do that kind of basic research that's [TS]

  just not i mean and I don't think that's going to change out the company is not [TS]

  the way they work like this a Google Adsense them in basic are indeed I like [TS]

  some some big multiple and Google is not compared to like you know the real basic [TS]

  research going on in the field of science and engineering [TS]

  Google self-driving cars are you know not a drop in the bucket compared to [TS]

  people who are trying to spending like just years and years working on whatever [TS]

  carbon nanotubes battery technology that's going to come and when it's [TS]

  always grab the stuff that's just it at the edge of what's possible and they [TS]

  apply their engineering and manufacturing expertise to bring it to [TS]

  existence but I don't think [TS]

  that Apple has anything like that for batteries at like four something else [TS]

  maybe they have a really good idea about the interface of a car but there are a [TS]

  lot of limitations on the interface of a car because people are kind of used to [TS]

  it isn't as government regulations saying how it has to be hosted one thing [TS]

  I want Apple making the interface to my car because there is a mean for many of [TS]

  the same reasons you know we discussed earlier on a neutral which nobody [TS]

  listened to we discussed our feelings on touchscreens vs knobs and buttons versus [TS]

  a combination of the two and I think we all came down is we actually don't like [TS]

  the Tesla approach of everything on the touchscreen like I I like knobs and [TS]

  buttons for all the controls that are necessary in my car for basic operations [TS]

  things like the ventilation controls and you know I like anything that's on the [TS]

  center console that's not like the navigation screen I want knobs and [TS]

  buttons for anything evolution screen that i dont wanna touch screen because [TS]

  of the ones I've seen and used have been terrible I want like like the wheel at [TS]

  the eye Dr we all have a great day out he has a somewhat similar one Toyota [TS]

  Lexus have a really weird terrible pointing stick system that's just awful [TS]

  and i've seen many others [TS]

  hideous systems rather brands but for the most part I want knobs and buttons [TS]

  because what you need in a car for both safety especially number one safety and [TS]

  also for just reduced annoyance you need a button to work every time to respond [TS]

  within the same time every time you don't because what you don't need to be [TS]

  doing in a car when you shouldn't be doing in a car is having to check up on [TS]

  the state of what you think you just did to make sure it took or two to reissue [TS]

  of command of a card misinterpreted and if you look at Apple's current software [TS]

  designs and systems and and styles and just the standards by which they hold [TS]

  themselves and in reality what we get from them in practice it's not that [TS]

  solid you know there are parts of it that are like the Colonels pretty good [TS]

  these days but you know the UI's you know all the other stuff sitting on the [TS]

  hob the services and everything that these these are not like this requires a [TS]

  very different degree of reliability than what consumer software for [TS]

  computers and tablets and phones really requires cars like the things in cars [TS]

  need to work every time and if they miss just a little bit if it's just a little [TS]

  bit bulkier little bit slow or a little bit inconsistent it's really annoying [TS]

  potentially very unsafe and so I don't think I would want Apple making that [TS]

  kind of software my car at least as we know them today and maybe in the future [TS]

  it'll be very worried if they did it today [TS]

  watches reassuring in this regard though because you're talking about is like [TS]

  what they did with the phone as they made it all screen because they realized [TS]

  that the buns were limiting and really the number of interesting things you can [TS]

  do with the phone was just all screen just expanded greatly because the [TS]

  general purpose computing device whereas on the watch they made a slightly [TS]

  different decision yet all screen because they expect similar type of [TS]

  things but the little digital grounding in the button on the side [TS]

  acknowledge that in this application it's not just about all I can make the [TS]

  general purpose computing devices so darn small so other aspects like quick [TS]

  access and reliable reliable use of you know like one might just make your [TS]

  pension scheme with a different context here they're not afraid afraid to make [TS]

  it you know that the highlight feature of their watches interface to be a [TS]

  novice angeli I would imagine if Apple had to take on a car like what you're [TS]

  what you're envisioning is like boys that permitted car would look like to [TS]

  join iPad into the death penalty would did I would hope that if Apple did a car [TS]

  they would recognize that this context is also different than the mobile phone [TS]

  context and that what's appropriate animal is fun making use the giant [TS]

  screen would also not be appropriate here so it would have nothing to have a [TS]

  digital crown but they would have knobs and buttons and stuff on it and they [TS]

  would not be entirely unexpected big screen to be featured heavily but I [TS]

  would not be surprised if an Apple design car interior had more knobs and [TS]

  buttons right so let's put this in the parking lot [TS]

  tried so hard to get out the state faced let's put this aside for a second and [TS]

  let's talk about something else that's also a second budget this week is [TS]

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  glass and what I love about them around my house what I love about them is that [TS]

  they are their own frame like you don't need to go buy a frame or amount or try [TS]

  to keep it flat lake with prince or anything like that it's great it is just [TS]

  its own freedom and the pricing considering that is really amazing if [TS]

  you try to get something framed if you go get big prints and buy frames getting [TS]

  dealing with friends very expensive very cumbersome fracture prints are just [TS]

  awesome they look stand-alone they look modern and they're just they're clean I [TS]

  can't say enough good things about fracture Prince not only from visual but [TS]

  if you prefer a practical point of view and of course of the great value as well [TS]

  as my office people always ask about the my compliments on them all the time when [TS]

  people come over they really are great so anyway they put everything you need [TS]

  to your photo on the wall or desk they get all the stuff in the box so you have [TS]

  a little screwed mounted it or ignore the text the desk it a little thought [TS]

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  worry about like some giant heavy slab of glass falling off your wall [TS]

  they're very lightweight very thin and its mountain piece of foam board in the [TS]

  back so you can you can hang with the picture hanging out in the foam boards [TS]

  you know I can hang on [TS]

  very practical very convenient ships well it's packed nicely [TS]

  we've ordered probably ten of them so far maybe none have a broken shipping a [TS]

  package variable you don't worry about that they they pack it nicely nicely not [TS]

  that you'll need to reinforce it does break though I'm sure we'll send you a [TS]

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  photos printed directly unless I cannot recommend these guys [TS]

  enough thank you very much to fracture for sponsoring our show once again let's [TS]

  assume for the sake of conversation the car play doesn't exist it basically [TS]

  doesn't heyo [TS]

  the two of us it's hasn't gone very far maybe it will in the future but right [TS]

  now it really has not gone very far [TS]

  yeah and that's a fair point so if we take it that car play either doesn't [TS]

  exist or barely exists wouldn't it make the most sense that all of these hires [TS]

  in all of this activity is probably about making what we call our plate [TS]

  today I mean that just seems the most obvious to me the thought of actually [TS]

  constructing a an automobile seems kind of crazy to me [TS]

  partnering like if I was interested in cars partnering with a car manufactured [TS]

  to do what we talked about back in neutrals like these carmakers all want [TS]

  to do it themselves and I feel like we have our internal design group that does [TS]

  all are you know for interiors with a new MyFord Touch whatever you know like [TS]

  they want to do it themselves as a point of pride but they're terrible at it [TS]

  because they don't have much experience cars you cannot be about software and [TS]

  then seemingly overnight night car because came back over first the engines [TS]

  were about software but I was like that's not visible to the user interface [TS]

  20 computers in them baby seemed to make that transition ok when it came to make [TS]

  you know human-computer interfaces inside the cars they have not done well [TS]

  and they haven't been able to attract that actually you so where is looking [TS]

  like you could just bring someone from the outside the Apple do your interior [TS]

  but no car maker once lets you know computer company come in design that [TS]

  they want you know it's like BMW or whatever it's a good point of pride we [TS]

  make the interiors and they just keep trying to refine them and they get [TS]

  better at them but I imagine if your Apple and all the people at Apple the [TS]

  Big Ten's executives who make the decisions [TS]

  drive super expensive cars and kind of like how all the executives had super [TS]

  expensive cell phones the stall thought they were all crap I bet a lot of those [TS]

  executives are similar tastes drive to work and they're under $200,000 cars and [TS]

  say boy the interior interfaces cars terrible and Mike this is the best car [TS]

  you can buy like [TS]

  now because it's a cheap car like I'm rich I have a lot of money I still have [TS]

  to use a crappy cell phone and deal with my crappy TV set and drive a car that I [TS]

  love everything about it except for the user interface in the interior right and [TS]

  so the channeling that frustration would be like you know can't we can we work [TS]

  with BMW Mercedes Porsche Honda how anybody would anybody let us like work [TS]

  with them at the level we want to work with them and say we own the interior [TS]

  user interface your car you do the engine you do the car you do the [TS]

  structure you do the suspension you do everything else but we own how you doin [TS]

  the windshield wipers on how you just the radio you call someone a cell phone [TS]

  interview car like let us do all that for you and so far no car if Apple has [TS]

  made those overtures no car manufacturers take them up on the deal [TS]

  and again I don't blame them because if I was a car maker I be like a few [TS]

  basically doing is cutting us out the needs and saying you're have a car maker [TS]

  now where the important you know [TS]

  clear that will come in and become the most valuable differentiator of our car [TS]

  line really getting us to a mere manufacturer of a drive train and bodies [TS]

  nobody wants to do that right but I can imagine Apple wanting to do that and [TS]

  maybe that's plan a and Plan B is just by Tesla implant see is what you make [TS]

  your own damn car and that's that's held an extrapolation of the order of events [TS]

  and I don't know what kind of gas there are between plan ab&c but plan a sounds [TS]

  plausible that Apple would want to be more involved in the interior of a car [TS]

  and car players like the weakest most piddling little attempt to get Apple [TS]

  anything inside a car yet that's exactly what I was driving at and I come back to [TS]

  maybe you know when we started this conversation one of you think John had [TS]

  asked well who is the apple of cars and maybe the better question is who's the [TS]

  AT&T who is the most beleaguered who is the most desperate who is the most [TS]

  willing to let Apple just sauntering Cingular actually around sorry that's [TS]

  very true I do you mean Cingular so who is the most desperately in most willing [TS]

  to let Apple you know just waltz in and take over the show [TS]

  and and I don't know who that he's today for a male know it everyone's already [TS]

  owned by somebody else [TS]

  beleaguered brand you know Tata field Rd bob dole's his left eye but you see my [TS]

  point right I mean who is most willing to do that I think Saab before they [TS]

  disappear Kasab is dead now right [TS]

  Jim bought them right and and and then spun them off at otter just let them die [TS]

  one of the other but I don't like Saturn [TS]

  they're gone to what kind of shape is Nissan in I thought they were doing well [TS]

  Mitsubishi was hurting last I heard yet Mitsubishi but like but they don't offer [TS]

  good card travel to get stuff inside like you know the cars are much more [TS]

  important part of of the entire project in the cell network was for the iPhone [TS]

  arguably even when they pick like the bad cell network rate and also the phone [TS]

  always had sort of like if we do well obviously will expand our time we won't [TS]

  be AT&T Cingular only for every successful whereas if you're successful [TS]

  the car ready think every car companies so yeah totally I'll be coming into our [TS]

  like it's not I don't see a path toward that I can just give you do something [TS]

  like our place where you try to get buy-in from this could still work like [TS]

  you're not only interior but every interior has a place where you can put [TS]

  your crap and some limited integration of course sandra is trying to do the [TS]

  same thing like I think be the prospects for car player similar for the prospects [TS]

  of you buy your TV from someone else and let us control some part of the [TS]

  interface and in practice that kinda sorta works like that the puck device [TS]

  category like well we don't make your TV we don't control the interface as you [TS]

  bring up to adjust the picture controls we don't control any of that we don't [TS]

  control your remote but you can have this box on your inputs and use our own [TS]

  lower mode and then we sort of take over your TV not great but it works and other [TS]

  people try to do so that's car played at the Android car thing or whatever but [TS]

  that's not gonna get us to like that's not gonna resolve our dissatisfaction in [TS]

  the same way that doesn't make us all of our TVs because at 7 a.m. [TS]

  well and also it's it's not a great metaphor because like TVs are kinda just [TS]

  need to be taken over where is caught like if you want to properly integrated [TS]

  to a car system and take over the UI you need to be integrated into a lot more [TS]

  it's a lot more complicated than just like oh there's a giant screen take it [TS]

  over like most cars have multiple displays and gauges and different [TS]

  control services all over the place and all sorted everything to get into really [TS]

  wanted to take it over and over time it's only going to get more complicated [TS]

  like look at what our fancy cars have we have the heads-up displays we have [TS]

  cameras in in the mirror to look at stuff on the road you got centers all [TS]

  around the car you got the mint navigation screen media controls you got [TS]

  navigation itself all these like the mobile office BS all these different [TS]

  things like that and then the number of systems in cars that are that are gonna [TS]

  be integrated into everyday models is gonna keep going up over time as you see [TS]

  get cheaper so the model of car players doing now is always going to be very [TS]

  limited and it is really if anything gonna keep being relegated to a smaller [TS]

  and smaller proportion of the car's overall smarts and displays but like [TS]

  television the car interior is under attack from usurpers from the outside [TS]

  like automatic as an example like a sponsor the podcast let's use everything [TS]

  into a standard part in your car and give it a bunch of features that should [TS]

  have had an already if car manufacturers knew what they were doing but they don't [TS]

  say when we all used to have GPS is stuck inside our cars when did you know [TS]

  when it wasn't on our phones and it wasn't built into the cars that was an [TS]

  attack from the outside hey carmakers know what the hell they were doing every [TS]

  car has GPS built-in adults about its government thing and suction cup of tea [TS]

  or dashboard right everyone connecting iPod CD stereo systems long for [TS]

  carmakers got a clue like there is a constant assault from outside world of [TS]

  the fast-moving technology sector to do things that sometimes it's just kind of [TS]

  like taking advantage of your car hardware sometimes is entirely separate [TS]

  system like the GPS but sometimes like automatic it's like [TS]

  you know help you find your car in the parking lot why can't you do not already [TS]

  carmakers have no idea what they're doing by this thing and we will help you [TS]

  do it right and I don't know that's not gonna win like they're going to [TS]

  overwhelm from the outside because they can't and you totally right like [TS]

  attaching a bunch of these things like it's boris then attaching parks or do [TS]

  you like the experience should be entirely integrated should know how fast [TS]

  your car is going where you're probably going to watch pressures in the tires [TS]

  with the current GeForce being pulled this whether it's ok to interrupt you [TS]

  but the call because it knows how you like total integration like that's the [TS]

  No yes what could Apple add to the car experience if this is maybe the [TS]

  idealized that they could add an interface that takes into account all [TS]

  those things in a way no car maker has and do it all without relying on a bunch [TS]

  of other stuff that you stick inside the car [TS]

  yeah I think you guys are both right the only thing that makes me doubt you is [TS]

  what if they were to enter into a car into work with a car manufacturer that [TS]

  already has a bus like I think Volkswagen for example and I'm not [TS]

  talking buses in what the Brits would call coach I'm saying service Boston so [TS]

  as an example I think that volkswagen has some hilariously named in mildly [TS]

  inappropriate service boss that all of their different components talk to you [TS]

  and I think BMW does the same thing actually in presumably most modern car [TS]

  manufacturers deal so maybe this isn't really narrow it down at all but like my [TS]

  friend brian has who had a able to ignore 32 I remember that he had done [TS]

  something I don't recall the specifics but he had done something with the [TS]

  Volkswagen can buses I believe it's called think about doctors in the chat [TS]

  we are seeing my Canada gauge or something like that whatever he did he [TS]

  did something that was possible because basically all of the cars different [TS]

  computers are talking to each other more common bus and so if that were the case [TS]

  since a Volkswagen BMW or something like that then maybe they could do something [TS]

  more than just the fairly rudimentary car play implementation they have now [TS]

  maybe they could add cages not not say that gauges are really be all end all [TS]

  but just as simple example [TS]

  something like that is possible without presumably too much work if they can [TS]

  just get their selves [TS]

  get themselves onto the campus yet but as soon as anyone does that as soon as a [TS]

  proposal that they're gonna just lock it down you know it was like jon said like [TS]

  the car manufacturers can I don't want someone else to come take over their [TS]

  systems and plug into their systems like they want to control the whole thing [TS]

  from lots of good reasons like it for themselves for their businesses for [TS]

  safety but there are so many reasons why they're not gonna let anyone else just [TS]

  plug into their bus and drive all over it [TS]

  microsoft did that with Ford right when they the like the Ford mytouch interior [TS]

  thing like Microsoft partner in with them it was a two desperate companies I [TS]

  mean the whole ideas like that it's almost as if it was 24 advantage for [TS]

  that interface enough work to do because like I said if the reason people are [TS]

  buying your cars because everybody knows that the car with the awesome Apple [TS]

  interfacing like you gotta check like if that becomes the value proposition of [TS]

  your car if it is the differentiator you don't like people are buying your car [TS]

  not because of something you did you are giving some portion of value and [TS]

  attractiveness and hearing your product and you're giving the most important [TS]

  portion of that Apple like it's kind of like that you know the cell network you [TS]

  know we want an iPhone or networking turns out that people don't care what [TS]

  network is that they'll get AT&T if it means they have the iPhone the iPhone [TS]

  becomes the most important thing is not gonna make you love AT&T know it's gonna [TS]

  make you believe the iPhone that is the differentiator and that's where the [TS]

  value is not just want you to be a dumb pipe into your said well but that's [TS]

  exactly what for did with the Myford think whatever was that which was [TS]

  Microsoft behind the scenes and they they made it clear that it was Microsoft [TS]

  was a selling point right but it wasn't that good and no one was buying forward [TS]

  because of a sudden people brought forward because everyone knew that for [TS]

  the cars with the great interfaces that like they've never had that reputation [TS]

  that was that was never the value proposition of a Ford and if it had [TS]

  become one [TS]

  feel like I was going to buy before but now everybody tells me like the same [TS]

  reason like I'm not into Apple but everyone tells me i phone is an awesome [TS]

  cell phones I'm interested in going to check it out right I guess but I mean to [TS]

  take it on its flip side I feel like I've heard many times that say cadillacs [TS]

  navigation interface is just atrociously bad we talked a long time especially [TS]

  Marco about how awful the Lexus interfaces so yeah maybe you don't want [TS]

  to be a selling point but you certainly don't want to be a liability either yeah [TS]

  you're kind of right there was no Microsoft desperation before it is [TS]

  actually one of the American car company that is not constantly making terrible [TS]

  cars and being bailed out by the government in like you know if you had [TS]

  to pick what is what is the best American carmaker makes for a pretty [TS]

  strong case to be major forward in terms of both financial health of the company [TS]

  and that the quality of the vehicles they pay out there's spot exceptions you [TS]

  can see you can find exceptional cars and you know the other makers as well [TS]

  but Ford overall was not the most desperate of all companies I find a [TS]

  sponsor this week is our best friends Squarespace Squarespace is the online [TS]

  platform makes it fast and easy to create your own professional website [TS]

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  known as the dude the actor who plays the dude cool stuff with this he has [TS]

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  here go anywhere right anything else on cars one more thing I think [TS]

  we have more than one with one of our major thing to bring this back down to [TS]

  earth now i three weeks of follow-up to buy these let's all now assume that [TS]

  Apple is not going to make it but let's assume that these rumors about some [TS]

  large project at Apple involving cars and some way that is not Street View and [TS]

  that is not merely an extension of existing car plagues it's because if it [TS]

  this Wall Street Journal article I say get a bunch of things wrong and I guess [TS]

  is wrong about what these people are doing but there really is a large number [TS]

  of people [TS]

  Apple's gearing up and I like it like Barbara said this seems crazy these [TS]

  people all be working on car plate so they're not making your car and it is [TS]

  not about Street View and it is not currently but it is correlated with the [TS]

  hell is it and honestly I think East Street View style project from the [TS]

  little mini vans that we've already seen pictures of that I don't know if we [TS]

  definitely know that they're from Apple I think that's kind of vague as to what [TS]

  the connection is but assume they are I think that would be enough to have a big [TS]

  staff and a big lab like that might be the reason that might be all this is [TS]

  because you know quote all this is is actually a place to do a street you kind [TS]

  of thing is a huge project but why would that be in a big building [TS]

  well it's a lot of data a lot of software right a lot of a lot of data to [TS]

  manage and people to manage and a fleet of vehicles to manage I mean that's a [TS]

  that's a big job there's a reason why why only Google has that feature right [TS]

  now I don't think anybody else introduce people to fly over there are not nearly [TS]

  as good I don't think anyone else did Street View accept them right not to my [TS]

  knowledge it's all the rumors like a thousand-person team like they're doing [TS]

  Street View which I probably think they are I would imagine this effort to be [TS]

  more distributed by necessarily more distributed to all the cars of the view [TS]

  from california coming back to California [TS]

  well is Apple it like all the AOL traffic going through Virginia [TS]

  it just doesn't seem to like I believe the street view thing a hundred percent [TS]

  and I suppose that could take maybe a hundred people but not a thousand [TS]

  and i dont not sure I would hire anyone from a car company to lead that because [TS]

  that's more of a I would hire someone from like a mapping company or someone [TS]

  who you know their exact positions they get the keyhole or whatever company they [TS]

  gave them their map data like it just doesn't fit with this rumor that with [TS]

  you know I guess it depends on how much of the Wall Street Journal article you [TS]

  think they got correction I'm willing to believe that they got everything correct [TS]

  except what these people are doing I'm going to believe that day that the [TS]

  number of people is right that they're sort of general location is right that [TS]

  the people who are leaving them are correctly identified but they just are [TS]

  guessing wrong about what people are doing is they're actually making car [TS]

  they're doing something and I'm not sure that something as I mean the reality is [TS]

  like if you if you take the collection of facts are true I think making the car [TS]

  is the most likely conclusion to draw from that it's not what I wanted to be [TS]

  doing it's not what I think they should be doing as from today I mean this could [TS]

  also you know it if you see it you said people in 2004 Chevy make a phone you [TS]

  hear from a lot of people who would say yes but a lot of people who is a well [TS]

  maybe they should really focus on the computers you know so we don't know I [TS]

  don't know by saying I don't think we should really do this maybe they will [TS]

  blow us away I don't think it's very likely just because I think they can [TS]

  make our the design very well but I think about like you know if if you look [TS]

  at like TVs and why again I dunno I said earlier but if you look at why didn't [TS]

  make a TV I think one of the reasons they don't make a TV is that TV's really [TS]

  have very little interface but the TV itself like the box of the plug into it [TS]

  have an interface the TV itself has very little interference really you're [TS]

  basically making tiny just been sometimes [TS]

  value maybe and then picking inputs but that's basically what you're doing [TS]

  everything else now you know your plug in a box and do you think there's ITV's [TS]

  like Apple could not bring a whole lot to that because most of the TV does Adam [TS]

  screen that you turn on and off and pick inputs from the day overtone the whole [TS]

  screen it's like a welcome to bring to the fore [TS]

  it's basically just a big screen they own everything on screen it defines the [TS]

  experience but they already have that with the box anyway so compare that to [TS]

  the car [TS]

  actual car usage like getting out earlier know simply how much an apple [TS]

  bring to dislike as you're using your car [TS]

  what what parts of what you're doing in your car when you're actually owning and [TS]

  driving a car what parts of that process and the experience are you heavily [TS]

  interacting with something where interface quality isn't that important I [TS]

  think one of the reasons why cars have such mediocre interfaces so often is [TS]

  because it does it really matter that much because for the most part you're [TS]

  barely ever looking at the controls I hope and you're not doing that much [TS]

  there's like 12 buttons like they're doing a massive amount of things you're [TS]

  not running reform software for plenty of good reasons that probably won't [TS]

  change there's not that much going on there and and many of these advances [TS]

  like probably shouldn't happen for safety reasons why I really doubt what [TS]

  value Apple could realistically bring to this that would make it worth all this [TS]

  trouble all this has all the risk of the expense of the loss of focus I don't [TS]

  like what problem are re- Lee desperate for an apple cart to solve and and all [TS]

  of us agree that cars often have you know pretty pretty mediocre interfaces [TS]

  but all the still drive these cars are mediocre face it we all chose to buy the [TS]

  ones we bought for different reasons really so not only do I think Apple [TS]

  could make a huge difference here but I'm also skeptical as to whether they [TS]

  would succeed much in the market because like people by car so many different [TS]

  reasons beyond the things Apple's good at well I mean Apple's good fashion to [TS]

  buy cars for those reasons but I think your view of what Apple can bring to [TS]

  this is too narrow like it's not just about the user interface like bringing [TS]

  the things that Aeschylus essentially already brought to it only bring it to [TS]

  more people that the ownership and use experience of an electric car is I think [TS]

  significantly different from [TS]

  an internal combustion engine car and it also different from a hybrid and all the [TS]

  parts in the car that don't necessarily have to do with driving getting in and [TS]

  out of it like the ownership experience the maintenance experience like what the [TS]

  car looks like how big it can be where can fit like this [TS]

  the places you can innovate with an electric car where you can innovate with [TS]

  internal combustion engines you have different constraints and Tesla's doing [TS]

  that now and that that is the that's what I call them the apple of cars like [TS]

  that is what they're bringing it to it and yes also hopefully making the [TS]

  interior of nature interfacing having integration with your iPhone having you [TS]

  know like all things you would expect them to do but I think it's the sort of [TS]

  total ownership experience that that Apple would be bring to it but I keep [TS]

  going back to what Apple is making the car you said if this rumor is true [TS]

  mostly the most likely thing like you do you think they're right about everything [TS]

  is making a car I have to think like thousand-person seems too small and I [TS]

  would think they would have to be something as article about them hiring [TS]

  Automotive Engineers carmakers like watching people from different parts of [TS]

  the organization like if I just look at these facts what it looks like they're [TS]

  doing if I say everything is bolstered Journal article is correct is there [TS]

  working on something having to do with interfaces inside cars it does not look [TS]

  to me like they're making a car because this you know if everything is true I [TS]

  would think you should be hiring way way way way way more mechanical engineers [TS]

  Automotive Engineers and stuff like that and be much less concerned about like [TS]

  watching people from the rest of the organization to do like software and [TS]

  just hiring like it just it just seems like this again unless you're buying [TS]

  test laboratory comes to those people at the this rumor the most likely thing [TS]

  that everything was insurance articles like out there doing something much more [TS]

  significant having to do with the interior cars that's what it looks like [TS]

  me [TS]

  i think im bored by that too was speaking a boring what if it's something [TS]

  even more boring than anything we've discussed like what if they're just [TS]

  using their their knowledge of system-on-a-chip and building at a NEC [TS]

  you or what if they're building a custom ECU to work with their custom head unit [TS]

  two vertically integrated of the business attorneys all the electronics [TS]

  and software in a car but it could be any hard candy GM's can be four it [TS]

  snowed could be better Bentley who cares and it's a very boring answer which is [TS]

  why I don't think it's really Apple style but it's a possibility they've [TS]

  gotten pretty good at chip design yeah but like I was going to buy it like it [TS]

  don't think they wanna be a parts vendor for carmakers like that said to lose [TS]

  your business like anything anything where you think and Apple then to this [TS]

  product or service or technology to all the car makers that is kind of the same [TS]

  reason they can to make a TV and Apple technology work with every cable company [TS]

  and all the TV like the industry does not want that is not liable to come in [TS]

  and do what they did the music industry and I'm not going to do that to my [TS]

  industry right and they basically did to the cell phone industry to like it was [TS]

  all about they did the music industry and like damn now Apple has way more [TS]

  power to every one of them to how to begin the situation and then it was like [TS]

  the video companies you know TV movies like were not going to let out will do [TS]

  what they did to the music companies and they were super resistant and it helped [TS]

  competitors have areas like that cough we learned our lesson [TS]

  the people who didn't learn that lesson for the cell phone companies they [TS]

  weren't paying enough attention like you helped build the record companies yet [TS]

  the movies did you scare them like they were you thinking about themselves and I [TS]

  became did the same thing actually like how did this happen [TS]

  the car makers I would hope would let that if only because of pride and [TS]

  stubbornness which is it seems to be very strong in the car business because [TS]

  there are so few car companies in because so many like long story [TS]

  traditions having to do with families and everything that they do not want an [TS]

  outsider coming in and like everybody's got a different users agree that and and [TS]

  signal the known anybody coming in tone their business but I don't like it seems [TS]

  to me that Apple if it wants to do something having to do with cars and I [TS]

  think they seem to be starting in the interior and growing slowly and so [TS]

  unless they by Tesla which they totally should because it would be great I don't [TS]

  see them making a car thanks a lot for three sponsored this week [TS]

  cards against humanity fracture and Squarespace and we will see you next [TS]

  week [TS]

  now the show they didn't even mean to begin as it was accidental [TS]

  accidental john Kasay [TS]

  because it was accidental and a team article [TS]

  we didn't even mention that it's shaped like a minivan God can imagine that had [TS]

  it has to be maybe like maybe it's a compact hatchback of some sort but even [TS]

  thats kinda just mean that's a play I guess where his remarks well you know I [TS]

  should cars you can have things like that leaf did look sort of small smart [TS]

  cars that are owned by like you can end up with a car that is for lack of a [TS]

  better term dorky looking at it all just about like oh it's a little commuter [TS]

  cars for transportation purposes and that's what's interesting to me as well [TS]

  but then I can imagine someone who doesn't know anything about cars seeing [TS]

  that Tesla Model X and saying it's kind of like a minivan like anything that [TS]

  doesn't look like you know Ford Crown Victoria from their childhood wouldn't [TS]

  you wouldn't see defaults SUV rather than minivan if you didn't know any [TS]

  better [TS]

  didn't know anything about cars I would imagine has front looks like an [TS]

  even-handed like a lot of front overhang because you don't have an engine there [TS]

  and you can get better passenger packaging like the smart cards look you [TS]

  know I mean like if you make that a little bit larger and profit up it [TS]

  doesn't have like a nose that doesn't have a hood [TS]

  or chrome I don't know that that's of all the the doomsday scenarios them [TS]

  making some low electric commuter car like a leaf for like it was just so i [TS]

  understand because that is and I just really already begun a live interview [TS]

  ride so good I did how did like half of it so far [TS]

  everyone's raving about that article but if you have read Katie's johnnie I have [TS]

  booked a lot of that article read like a book report on the Johnny a book which [TS]

  is not to say it's a bad thing is it's great [TS]

  like if you haven't read the book does a lot of information and of course the [TS]

  actual interviews and access and that's the good part of the article a lot of it [TS]

  I felt like I was waiting for information that I already knew from the [TS]

  book that's not a slam in the article just why find it difficult to get [TS]

  through but anyway at one point johnnie I have my side of the window of his [TS]

  Bentley the Toyota Echo next doing complaints of the styling is terrible so [TS]

  I don't think it's beyond the realm of possibility dead Apple would be [TS]

  interested in designing a car and that it would be a dorky car like this is a [TS]

  dark like small you know commuter car for people who don't need to go long [TS]

  distances and owning a so much better for people who never even want to own a [TS]

  car [TS]

  only this is so much unlike on your car that it will be great for you and you [TS]

  they would never do that it accused the board of Ferrari and you know Jony ive [TS]

  has Aston Martins and like they like great cool cars but johnnie I was [TS]

  looking to stay and play the echo not because I think he thinks this Art Deco [TS]

  like the idea of a small economical cars terrible but just because he thought it [TS]

  wasn't designed in his mind is like I could do a little car that's much better [TS]

  than he was also picking on somebody down i mean Toyota has not made an [TS]

  attractive since at least the nineties if not earlier but was in a super-g at [TS]

  all papi was all done in 10 somebody really likes this is one that barely [TS]

  remember the original Nexus S II coupe interesting designed really the Lexus CT [TS]

  about the convertible hardtop original IC you guys maybe don't look at it that [TS]

  you like that like super old [TS]

  are you gotta go back in time like 11 2001 Lexus came out of the company they [TS]

  have one that say they have a picture here of 93292 to the sc300 sc400 [TS]

  looks kinda like an integrity Miata had a baby and this is like to know what [TS]

  came out i mean but compared like this is comparatively much tighter like as in [TS]

  the skin is stretched must I drove this car that this is the innovative thing [TS]

  about this is not like it but i'm looking back a bit like wow look how [TS]

  smoothing curb the front and back are like this before cars became water [TS]

  balloons but this is ever reading a story about this that one of the design [TS]

  inspirations for the styling of his car was literally taking a water balloon [TS]

  squeezing it and seeing sweeping with your hands seeing the different shapes [TS]

  that is the reason to but compared this to like current actual water balloon [TS]

  cars and this looks like a sporty and smelt and just I'm not sure I agree with [TS]

  you on how good this is Marco this is not a very attractive card all it's a [TS]

  little bit dated but at the time it came out it was a very refined and stylish [TS]

  and it was a distinctive it didn't look like a Mercedes or BMW unlike for [TS]

  example the s400 which was like you know the poor man's Mercedes literally only [TS]

  ten times more reliable quieter but it was it was like this in the original G S [TS]

  actually had some distinctive styling cues were you could say this is like you [TS]

  know the current line alexis is also investing to start using our styling is [TS]

  a big giant ugly bow-tie mouth Acura I i would really say like like this year the [TS]

  last couple years have really not been kind to most car design we've had some [TS]

  really really bad it recently I really like the new court and I like the new [TS]

  five series to happen to be two of our cars but I think the styling of those [TS]

  cars took a definite turn for the better beat the previous generation with but [TS]

  ugly in the previous generation five was not good [TS]

  yeah I agree with those actually but you can look around the industry you can see [TS]

  a lot of things get sticky seem to keeping workers like for example [TS]

  everything Acura makes every Acura every Lexus some BMW's if I can say I really [TS]

  don't like the new m3 styling as we've just as we talk about this collapse I [TS]

  don't like that at all I don't like a cure i think is a little bit of an [TS]

  upswing is the head they had a really serious unfortunate be care and there I [TS]

  think they're trying to come out of that like the MDX like the low point just [TS]

  terror acts whatever that thing like I think they're starting to come out of it [TS]

  I think when they emerged that merge their high incidence back together into [TS]

  whatever it is they are on the TSX NRL became the same that is a [TS]

  rationalization and the styling of that car is not entirely hideous and really [TS]

  DRL wasn't entirely it is often a weird direction I think that you could try to [TS]

  come back like BMW went off in a direction to in there trying to gather [TS]

  it back but you know that the new 3 series starting off in a way direction [TS]

  again [TS]

  55 was the baby the peak comeback period and we'll see what the next five looks [TS]

  like to see if it gets better or worse the Maximus terrible these days don't [TS]

  even look at the maximum are just don't look all my god I heard it was getting [TS]

  better as it had some dark times but it is just getting worse I missed I miss [TS]

  the 40 S E 96 Maxima was it wasn't it was an incredibly attractive but it was [TS]

  it was at least neutral saying this is the new one oh boy she's what they do [TS]

  and what is wrong with Nissan what a shame the maximum was so good at it lost [TS]

  its way suppose severely Nissan had some interesting things like the when the [TS]

  Altima to the wraparound taillights like I was going a little bit too far but at [TS]

  least it was interesting and I think the maximum like one or two generations ago [TS]

  also had some interesting features it was stopped on a puffy in the right [TS]

  direction in the majors lost generation [TS]

  I miss neutral the ultimate pretty rough these days to thinking car market is not [TS]

  that welcoming as of late you're really that's a that's compelling these days [TS]

  well I think I think the move to electric is interesting you know it's [TS]

  still it's still pretty limited and expensive but I think that that's like [TS]

  you it's similar to move to SSDs and computers like that is that's clearly [TS]

  the way forward [TS]

  eventually obviously it's gonna move more slowly than the city transition but [TS]

  turns out gas engines are good enough for so many things and way better it's [TS]

  at certain other things that like it's gonna it's gonna be a long time before [TS]

  gas engines are in the minority but I i think i think the electric cars are [TS]

  going to be where we are looking for excitement and whether you know maybe [TS]

  that's why Apple wants to be a part of it if they do who knows but you know [TS]

  clearly from from people who who have driven them are from people who own them [TS]

  there are a lot of compelling differences to them there still are [TS]

  downsides but we'll get there [TS]

  2015 Maxima I was thinking I was thinking of the 2014 12051 holy cow it [TS]

  even worse I'm speechless [TS]

  since last time when I first saw the rear end to the c7 Corvette like this [TS]

  the last time I felt this way what is that may be at the concept I i just then [TS]

  search for Nissan Maxima 2015 just the concept of a little bit better but like [TS]

  yeah this is this is not a shipping car but if it was that would be a big [TS]

  mistake [TS]

  think that it's not an attractive vehicle at least it would be different I [TS]

  mean like you could you describe this one as polarizing whereas the regular [TS]

  max but you can just described as mediocre to bad you know this polarizing [TS]

  somebody will love this [TS]

  you know people with bad taste probably but somebody will love this [TS]

  where the current maximum nobody can love it that's what I was thinking of [TS]

  the current when we're like that design with a little little corner cut out of [TS]

  the headlights the first time they did that was interesting but now it looks [TS]

  like a mistake it is look it looks like somebody like somebody just screwed up [TS]

  while dragging others design and 3d modeling software everybody Google 404 [TS]

  2014 to cleanse your palate this guy did the Maxima was at the end of the really [TS]

  sappy Super Bowl commercial from this year the one where the dads race car [TS]

  driver and and he liked picks us up from school or something like that where they [TS]

  killed children to advertise and I said sappy not stupid anyway the dad like [TS]

  picks up the kids after he's missed his entire childhood but he picks up a new [TS]

  Maximus all's forgiven I put the link in the chat about one minute 16 seconds [TS]

  give or take a little bit with this i'm looking at the 2014 Honda Accord to [TS]

  cleanse my palate and you're ready to dig them out because it just looks [TS]

  completely forgettable like a hybrid of looking at the it's just it's [TS]

  just like it's just incredibly bland it even in in that light silver color that [TS]

  all incredibly bland cars in the last decade have been landed his distinctive [TS]

  it is not on bloody attractive has nice wheels I really like a sheet metal is [TS]

  stuck to the car [TS]

  yes I yeah I will I will give you that point and it is a car shaped car yes wow [TS]

  it's not shaped like a snail or a poop our standards are pretty low here this [TS]

  is this is this is what made you look at the maximal what does that shape like [TS]

  not a car that is the epitome of water balloon design I actually do not think [TS]

  the Accord is very good looking to be honest with you you don't really need [TS]

  that spoiler lip on the back to keep the wheels on the ground really fast does [TS]

  down for so that I think the rear end is not great but it's better than past the [TS]

  courts but I really like the front of it and even just a little bit too much [TS]

  chrome on the front just look at all the other hand is that are trying to use the [TS]

  same day [TS]

  sign language and how gross they are and this is the one car that got this design [TS]

  language to be attractive this looks no different to me than what's the big [TS]

  Toyota Camry this is so different go actually look at a camera camera now [TS]

  Camry you will see their money to see them in person it's not a record [TS]

  rectilinear headlights look at the camera now and it looks the exact same [TS]

  it might just not I would say the Accord looks better I would see the difference [TS]

  is pretty small thank you I would agree with that more know how a giant fish [TS]

  mouth looks like it's just the camera has nothing going for it [TS]

  know it has no distinction to its design is just a series of little details [TS]

  tacked onto squishy shape I would say the same thing is true the according to [TS]

  look like there's not a lot going on here there's it is a very like like it [TS]

  if you think about what what would be the dictionary definition of a car would [TS]

  have a picture of this next to it if you if you if you like those pictures where [TS]

  the average every human face and then the most average would not be the [TS]

  averages is different [TS]

  averaged together like the Camry and the maximum they do you do not get the [TS]

  Accord is not the average it may have been the average of a bunch of cars like [TS]

  a decade ago but it is it is off the beaten path of car makers now has [TS]

  attractive and classy I would say classy and is not does not embarrass itself in [TS]

  the way that the only cars do is it just disappears it just blends right into [TS]

  whatever I don't think it disappears I think I think being classy in this way [TS]

  doesn't disappear in the same way that like that Casey's beloved 5 series like [TS]

  Moses boring just gonna blends into the background looks like our young thing [TS]

  distinguishes this girl okay otherwise it's just a car shape car remember when [TS]

  all the BMW's bra like the same shape just came in different sizes [TS]

  not that different from now honestly it is now but they all have these boulders [TS]

  in triples and flanges all over them and they all have different rules in place [TS]

  to start when they were all the same the complaint was it's too boring it doesn't [TS]

  doesn't have the excitement of you know I'm gonna spend much money a car to look [TS]

  more exciting I just don't want to look like the same car in three sizes and [TS]

  super boring but I think that's a you know having restraint in being sort of a [TS]

  classic car that the places where it decides to emphasize its practices in [TS]

  the small details but the overall shape is very just simple and non showing I [TS]

  think it's perfectly well we're going to get screwed up with the back because the [TS]

  taillights are particularly nice looking but the overall shape of the car i think [TS]

  is very pleased to see your definition of classy to me what you're describing [TS]

  is the e39 m5 when I think boring an unremarkable I think of pretty much any [TS]

  accord that's ever been never a good example is the front air dam like the [TS]

  big plastic front bumper thing we ever gonna call that so many carmakers [TS]

  including I think most BMWs these days just go nuts with that thing and mess it [TS]

  up with BMW's your right is that not talked about this a million times the [TS]

  non M Sport front and front air dam on a regular BMW's like a little slit and it [TS]

  looks awful it looks terrible most of the reason I insisted on getting myself [TS]

  msport 335 was not because of anything else like it doesn't really go any [TS]

  faster doesn't handle any better cuz I've next drive it was strictly for that [TS]

  air dam because it actually looks good I think most of the things try to make [TS]

  every you I get his giant jet in take some big scoops and flanges and thinks [TS]

  poking out of it and that's why I think the import smart ones look worse than [TS]

  the other ones [TS]

  or at least more gaudy and just look at that look at the big front piece of [TS]

  plastic on the court it is restrained it does not to call attention to itself it [TS]

  completes the shape of the car with maybe a little bit of a smarty [TS]

  pretensions of like sticking out of the bottom rim little bit and with a little [TS]

  tiny chrome accent but it does not just compared to the same part on an m3 [TS]

  current generation m3 which is like screams at you that I'm a transformer [TS]

  well but you're just you're making our point which is like the accord [TS]

  looks like it looks average and forgettable it is like it doesn't jump [TS]

  out at you know none of none of the designed just comes out and says look at [TS]

  me I'm i'ma huge design flaw it just the whole car just looks like an average [TS]

  completely forgettable car averaged car doesn't have those wheels and I would [TS]

  say an average guy doesn't have led highlights in the headlights and you [TS]

  know looking looking restrained I think it does make that again compared to the [TS]

  Avalon which looks like a giant cheese grater fish grill flying through the air [TS]

  hose on it like that is what the average is not this this is the average car like [TS]

  that the ultimate is the average car that Maximas the average car camera is [TS]

  the average car did not look like to compare that they just basically a room [TS]

  with the Accord and said well you know he calls himself in the bad way and if [TS]

  you averaged a bunch of cars together and think they look more like the app [TS]

  London like all my god the Avalon is ridiculous what is that that's the [TS]

  current that's like the Camry with little like this is uglier than the [TS]

  maximum concept exactly like that's what the average car looks like now and look [TS]

  at the well to go look at the camera [TS]

  yeah you're right that that front air dam is the kind of front air dam that I [TS]

  like the beginning whole taken way too far [TS]

  entirely too far out on top of it as an ugly ugly chrome nose and it got me [TS]

  shape in headlights hanging off the corners in the fog lights are all [TS]

  Michigan we agree about this is that I'm using blown away by buy this car [TS]

  by the Avalon like I i rented an Avalon a couple years ago on a trip and it was [TS]

  it was a pretty reasonable Carly it was huge and and totally marshmallow ailich [TS]

  you couldn't feel or do anything but it was overall a respectable choice like it [TS]

  looked average it was black it was you know low-key it was pretty fast given [TS]

  what it was and it was it was comfortable and it was fine it was it [TS]

  was perfectly fine choice this my god I mean look at the goal is now go look at [TS]

  the camera is pasted that is a look at the front piece of plastic on this [TS]

  camera and look at the shape of the headline look at how to shape of the [TS]

  headlights just have no conviction like and keep the Accord open another Windows [TS]

  you keep looking back from one to the other [TS]

  look at the rink in front of the camera all Camry and accord that basically the [TS]

  same are you kidding me look at that way I didn't say they basically look the [TS]

  same I did you see them both in front of you do you understand the card is very [TS]

  different and if you average police cars together they wouldn't like that and [TS]

  again throw and throw in the Altima throw in this this camera looks like [TS]

  it's been an accident doesn't like the way it has a good like half fog lights [TS]

  like on the side and in the whole front the whole front grille is like weirdly [TS]

  shaped and black it looks like it was it was an accident and has been half [TS]

  prepared and they haven't painted the new park see a look at the hood look at [TS]

  the hood cut lines even look at the shape of the headlights look at the hood [TS]

  cut lines look at look at the the lack of confidence in the chrome like it's [TS]

  going across the things for the logo is just nothing and I think the only other [TS]

  car company boring car company that has cars that have to styling that is not [TS]

  embarrassing it uses Mazda mazda6 again did not look like other cars is [TS]

  interesting as a family resemblance and has some interesting but it has has sort [TS]

  of the courage of his convictions it says conviction right in the marketing [TS]

  title conviction creativity courage this is what changes the game the first part [TS]

  of the pics and has a 2007 Mazda 6 which i think is a very pretty car for the [TS]

  time it [TS]

  has less conviction that it has the kind of large front air dam that I like then [TS]

  the generation after hers which started like 2008 2009 there was one or two [TS]

  generations actually that were just terrible but I agree with you that the [TS]

  brand new mazda6 maybe you're too old now is also very pretty and i also [TS]

  really really like it and I don't like the styling as much as the accord but [TS]

  you can't say that it looks like I think they've made it worse than when I just [TS]

  paid it actually looks worse than the original generations but like it has [TS]

  kind of shoulders and hips and its headlights have a purposeful distinct [TS]

  shape same thing with its head cut lines everything about it is not like I hate [TS]

  cars where it looks like the mold of the car out of clay and then someone else [TS]

  came later and cut out where the hood would be even beyond the current BMW 3 [TS]

  is with that the hood corners that end on the right and left that just by the [TS]

  by the headlights like it looks like you made a car shape it was a good car shape [TS]

  before you put where you cut out for the hood makes it less attractive not [TS]

  integrated into the shape it's just that you took a laser images that you watch [TS]

  that I video someone sent us an I watched two seconds of it I didn't have [TS]

  a chance you should because first of all make Marco never buy this car which may [TS]

  be good because we think we shouldn't he shouldn't buy this car so stop them from [TS]

  so far I think I shouldn't buy this car so you need to any convincing the watch [TS]

  I wish I never been denied because it is it is not a four-door sedan ultimately I [TS]

  really just wanna four-door sedan and I'm very happy with the one you know [TS]

  some of the chairman said to be in WI it's going to test anxiety test lives [TS]

  with the exception of perhaps the stupid orientals is a actual real regular car [TS]

  like use it everyday nothing about it is weird you can open and close all the [TS]

  doors simply has weird or as well you can open and close all the different [TS]

  truck catches you get in and get out of it has everything about it is just the [TS]

  car drivers the aids like it's kind of a work of art [TS]

  kind of kind of a a statement about something also kind of works as a car [TS]

  you're careful alright so so let's let's take on the big guns now I don't think [TS]

  the Tesla Model S is that [TS]

  active it's not that the front of the front of the best things come out but [TS]

  the overall shape is pretty decent I would say that the Model S looks like it [TS]

  it looks extremely blobby [TS]

  it looks like all the personalities been sanded off I don't like the light design [TS]

  I don't like the front or the back design or the side design and I think [TS]

  and I've seen a number of them in person and and I don't think they use very high [TS]

  quality paint I've never split the black doesn't look very good looks boring like [TS]

  you can look at certain cars like I would get blacks you can look at certain [TS]

  cars you can see like certain blacks are better looking than others and test [TS]

  light pink has a pretty crappy one and like it doesn't it doesn't look like its [TS]

  price at all and for a car that is interesting and revolutionary I think it [TS]

  should look a little more like that and doesn't that's test those weeks by the [TS]

  Interior the same as well the materials of the Interior the comp supposedly in [TS]

  the new models there's an option for much better seats but like the interior [TS]

  of the materials that the comfort padding on the seeds like it just like [TS]

  sitting outside of it you know the pain quality the detailing it seems like a [TS]

  lower class then it should be I think the overall shape is actually pretty [TS]

  good actually kind of interesting and muscular but it like the front and rear [TS]

  and treatments do not do justice to the overall shape which is not bad like you [TS]

  blend overall the headlights and taillights and got rid of that grow on [TS]

  the front and just look like the car it looks in that regard think it does look [TS]

  like an expensive car in the shape because most cars again maybe the [TS]

  exception of like the mazda6 don't look sort of that that must give her and [TS]

  purposeful especially car with as much interior of the model assets like it [TS]

  doesn't look like [TS]

  big giant crossover SUV thing that's lowered down but I mean [TS]

  consider a game before a Tesla Roadster is flat out ugly like it was not an [TS]

  attractive looking car all visitors to the shape of it was awkward and weird [TS]

  and everything about it don't think that's true I thought was a decent [TS]

  looking car meet granted it was basically just a lotus but I didn't [TS]

  think it was a bad way better on that same frame than the Model S has [TS]

  something to recommended it sort of defines a test look I don't particularly [TS]

  good test look as bad attractive but I do like the overall shape of the card I [TS]

  do think the shape looks little bit expensive but yet a detailing you can [TS]

  get a yacht floor yeah there's an option for a yacht floor I think they are [TS]

  cranking up here is a super duper famous telling me about the new model [TS]

  got to drive one dealership gave him on when his was in the service of get drive [TS]

  one of the new fast ones and everything and talked about the new options I think [TS]

  like they realized their weaknesses are like people spend too much money on the [TS]

  card they want the interior to feel better than $30,000 $35,000 B&W cloth [TS]

  seats that are used to do in in European non-us [TS]

  and in the problem has always had a lot they've always compared themselves in [TS]

  justifying their their high price they've always said well if you compare [TS]

  us to like a Mercedes S Class which is what we're comfortable to contest right [TS]

  if you compare the interior quality to other like the set to a seven series and [TS]

  has class or the amenities or the amenities you know the Lexus Scion Lexus [TS]

  is like if you compare to any of the very high ends large sedans it doesn't [TS]

  quite match at least it hasn't in the past maybe I haven't seen it yet but the [TS]

  test level take that class off the line and a day [TS]

  and so like so you can kind of start selling it is like in the same way the [TS]

  you don't expect like you know and our DRS Porsche gt3 you know the interior is [TS]

  gonna be like strip down and bear like that's part of the aesthetic of the car [TS]

  like you're not in like in some ways Tessa kind of unintentionally has that [TS]

  going for it like we don't intend to make a stripped-down always thought [TS]

  maybe in the first model like the interior was like the patent was so then [TS]

  the seating area just because they wanted to say boy and like this big [TS]

  luxurious cushy seats like you have your car margo there were a lot and so if [TS]

  you're trying to cut down and wait you're gonna give it a little bit [TS]

  cheaper seats that's why I think the good news is there an option and I [TS]

  wonder how much more they way than the other stuff but if you know if your [TS]

  gonna go with that thing at least you have performance today still way the [TS]

  time and change direction that well but like it does it does add that superflat [TS]

  cornering attitude that feels weird and you know it's super fast and quiet and [TS]

  actually a fun electric car to drive by all accounts I gotta drive 1 I'm tired [TS]

  of guessing how much fun it is I think he will find it to be super heavy and [TS]

  corner strangely flat and be really fast in a straight line that's it is very [TS]

  likely that I'm gonna hit the lack of knobs and buttons have not driven one [TS]

  but I have been driven in one and even just being a passenger I was just [TS]

  immediately apparent like I did not like I went in expecting to be able to really [TS]

  know didn't think about it whatever how flat is it connery like strangely so [TS]

  startling without having you know stiff suspension where you feel every bump [TS]

  because this humongous weight as a run the bottom of the bottom of the car and [TS]

  then did I feel that the car felt heavy I can tell that as a passenger that I [TS]

  just know it is no wonder how many people are actually listen to this call [TS]

  is neutral at people can take it the whole show is neutral this is this is [TS]

  mostly staying at yeah it's not our fault they first and yeah we had to do [TS]

  this it was an accidental car podcast [TS]