The Accidental Tech Podcast

122: My Results Were Inconclusive


  John anything bad happen in the last week and did like the world and order [TS]

  any other negativity or horrible result happened in the last week I'm sure [TS]

  things happened everywhere in the last week did anything happen to our show [TS]

  that was really horrible I don't think so [TS]

  ok because what was missing from last episode just getting the modem thing in [TS]

  the beginning no no no no that was there to keep trying [TS]

  what did what it was completely missing from last episode any mention of the [TS]

  thing that I was most excited about it wud say no now they talk about the [TS]

  release show like the production processes phone down oh my god [TS]

  John this out and you have I don't know I just listened to the most reasonable [TS]

  that had a song I guess it had the modem beat that have the ending noise yeah [TS]

  we'll just sit here patiently know all the ads no those are there to hire well [TS]

  I guess we should do something up front in the show as you would in a follow-up [TS]

  and we never have always have someone to talk about we haven't had a nun any data [TS]

  shows like where would I get it from especially when we were live I don't [TS]

  have notes in front of me so come now John we always have something to follow [TS]

  up on a day when we are in macro last year so maybe something in the city but [TS]

  like certainly I didn't have a laptop in front of me know you guys had a [TS]

  tremendous while it no I mean like last year the Macworld City oh yeah you still [TS]

  had a tremendous will let you know my number with me [TS]

  hey I'm speaking of all its and now we can say going to follow up the markets [TS]

  trying to avoid [TS]

  we all went to dinner at our dear friend Jason snowless house and we left that [TS]

  house we left jasons house in got onto the interstate highway freeway whatever [TS]

  california calls it and then you had an epiphany john would you like to tell us [TS]

  what that epiphany was had left my backpack at Jason's house and somebody [TS]

  pointed out to me I don't i genuinely don't member who was since I'm sorry to [TS]

  whomever that is that at two minutes [TS]

  excuse me two hours to minutes and 45 seconds you explain to us in the last [TS]

  episode how you would never lose your backpack does not act like briefly yes [TS]

  because he said you had no they lost to find lost you didn't know where it was [TS]

  within Jason's how I did know where I was and wasn't Jason's house was I [TS]

  correct in believing it was Jason South yes I did I ever wonder where this no I [TS]

  did not I think it briefly no I knew was Jason's house I just thought it was very [TS]

  funny that for that it turns out that after declaring authoritative Lee that [TS]

  you would never ok yes you said lose but but I will take it you'll never leave [TS]

  your money you will take it by changing the world that I said to wear that makes [TS]

  me right [TS]

  baskin that imagine the glory this is the internet this is how these things [TS]

  work anyway I didn't even if I got all the way back to the city I would still [TS]

  have known exactly where that is true that is true maybe you have a case if I [TS]

  knew exactly where it was and that knowing was I know where it is it's on [TS]

  the BART platform I would give you a strong case for lost at that point [TS]

  because even though I believe it to be on the BART platform would probably not [TS]

  be there anymore [TS]

  but Jason is a slightly more trustworthy than average but you know i i think the [TS]

  the big picture here the lesson here is that had you owned a wallet that would [TS]

  fit in your pocket you probably wouldn't have brought a backpack to this dinner [TS]

  and therefore it wouldn't have been a problem and it wouldn't have I probably [TS]

  would have bought it I don't go anywhere it's like this towel another reference [TS]

  you know get them go anywhere without Hitchhiker's Guide to the Galaxy hey [TS]

  Casey read a book anyway yeah I'm like that with the backpack even if it's just [TS]

  like the a little battery pack in there to recharge my phone you never know how [TS]

  big is the battery itself but I a lot of crap in there I think even in my bed in [TS]

  there and remember honestly I'm not I'm not trying to make fun of you hear that [TS]

  you do keep anything in your pants pockets my phone I mean I tried but six [TS]

  is a little bit big to have in my pocket but generally me and my phone is on me [TS]

  and it's in my front pocket I don't like to sit down a lot with it in my front [TS]

  pocket like when I get in the car I tend to lose I take it out and put it in the [TS]

  little cubby thing for [TS]

  losing in the car but yeah basically my phone I guess make use if I don't know [TS]

  my keys if I'm going to go to the store and a backpack with a right so that I [TS]

  get when I go to store something unusual [TS]

  but WBC is a different different experience like going out into space at [TS]

  its base it on a good season anyway I don't know where you're going to like I [TS]

  agree I need to thank everyone who has sent me all the suggestions I feel [TS]

  slightly overwhelmed by the million possible choices [TS]

  thing I know is I don't want one that makes your money visible on the outside [TS]

  makes me uncomfortable yeah that's why I like the one that I have which is AUB [TS]

  wallet Yub I discontinued yeah and that's the thing is after we talked I [TS]

  was looking on should go ahead and order a new one cuz some of the elastic after [TS]

  last couple of years is kind of a fallen off or whatever and it was originally [TS]

  Kickstarter then I believe it was either an individual or company was selling it [TS]

  outside of Kickstarter and I went looking to try to find it and I could [TS]

  not find it anymore and I'm really bummed about that because part of the [TS]

  beauty of the UB was that you had cards on either side of the wallet and then [TS]

  there was like a little hobby if you will it's a terrible description but a [TS]

  little slot where you could stick bills and it was I thought was very clever I [TS]

  really liked it and now I have to go figure out what you by John and those [TS]

  for myself because I don't know what to do now i cant get another you be there [TS]

  are a lot of choices though seriously it's it's overwhelming how many did this [TS]

  is not a new trend at this number of the million of them everybody loves the one [TS]

  they have been a look at the mall Mike they all look very similar I feel like I [TS]

  needed something I need to see in person I can be difficult to buy online just [TS]

  looking at pictures he got a kind of feel it has to push it is and it is a [TS]

  really is how nicely credit cards and so I don't know I personally can very very [TS]

  happy with my slim wallet by a company called Koyo no slimy [TS]

  black outside with red inside look really cool and it's relatively [TS]

  inexpensive I guess what's the right now to sign up for $45 [TS]

  and it's really nice I have been using it now for something like 45 years this [TS]

  is this is a non-starter for me though because it's a front pocket wallet and [TS]

  that's just barbaric what makes it a front pocket wat you can keep it in any [TS]

  part of it is minimal front pocket while you know what makes it into words what [TS]

  makes it a front pocket it doesn't have one of those weird curves and anything [TS]

  it's still a rectangle you put it in your back pocket it will have one of [TS]

  those cams [TS]

  field notes that is very true when do I just giving you a hard time about the [TS]

  backpack thing just a define I am already envisioning all the emails and [TS]

  getting about how wrong I am and how right you are because anytime anyone [TS]

  doubts huge on the internet comes to that I'm sorry to ruin your fun with [TS]

  facts [TS]

  ultimately though you know the wallet is not your problem [TS]

  the it's the contents of the wall but you have to fix yourself before you can [TS]

  fix the wall it obviously you know taking stuff I know I now believe helped [TS]

  so much is it is a very large files obviously forgot us let's not everything [TS]

  would make it from the old haunts clearly right now it's alright well [TS]

  anyways what lol the entire internet wrote to tell us and we observed [TS]

  ourselves the WBC that the notes as written by Apple the back end is now [TS]

  indeed iCloud is no longer IMAP thank you to the entire day the internet for [TS]

  for letting us know that because that is the case and as a one-time porting of [TS]

  your data I kind of like what do they do it there in [TS]

  yosemite like you like a library I know something else anyway that the documents [TS]

  move to a club Dr a change the storage and I you know that there's a one-time [TS]

  operation we say are you ready to move everything over to the new system once [TS]

  you do that you have two sets information one visible on the pre El [TS]

  Capitan systems and one visible in the post in their divorce that for that in [TS]

  any way so I'm very happy to hear that is not specifically case you said I [TS]

  specifically its cloud kit which is which is worth noting because you know I [TS]

  cloud is an umbrella term has a fairly mixed reliability history is the sum of [TS]

  the parts of it were not that great but the Core Data Sync for the original [TS]

  document storage people had problems whereas cloud kit based things including [TS]

  the new Photos app and a lot of absurd and since last year [TS]

  tend to be pretty well regarded I don't think anybody has really had major [TS]

  problems like it so far and even even like any issue people inhabit the Photos [TS]

  app seem to be related to the locally running code and in the app itself not [TS]

  the cloud back at which seems pretty solid another follow up item I'm pretty [TS]

  sure I said this to you in person and not a podcast is the problem not seen [TS]

  each other in person using photos on the MacBook one and the Apple Store how how [TS]

  did it go so I went to the Apple store finally to see it and that go and try to [TS]

  keyboard and I could tell by the keyboard now me you'll save that for [TS]

  later the short answer on the keyboard is my results were inconclusive [TS]

  it also had photos on I was trying to make things you don't like it's a small [TS]

  block and I do something like this heat up and I thought of you running the new [TS]

  photos that surely that will make it heat up will grind away when it launched [TS]

  and everything like that and the MacBook one has very wimpy CPU I have a look at [TS]

  the specs but I'm going to guess that it's probably the same ballpark as my [TS]

  MacPro like maybe even slower possibly it might imperil attacks it's almost [TS]

  certainly slower in single-threaded it it's roughly equivalent to Lake a I [TS]

  think it was a 2011 era MacBook Air CPU right and that's what we have here we [TS]

  actually do run photos on the 2011 arafat's blackberry hear the fans [TS]

  wearing now because I wanted to try it out to heat up the MacBook one and I was [TS]

  shocked by how incredibly fast and responsive everything was MacBook one [TS]

  using photos I did all the normal stuff it launched fairly quickly I went [TS]

  through pose isolated on my favorite of them added keywords and keyword the big [TS]

  selections of things like everything was instant and the only thing you think of [TS]

  as their photo library was a course like two thousand photos and minus sixty [TS]

  thousand and I see the MacBook moon 12 that of eight gigs of ram yes and has [TS]

  twice the RAM so I still don't quite know exactly what it is about behind [TS]

  2011 MacBook Air that is so brutalized by my best guess now is [TS]

  like me you know I imported from iPhoto said I am part of my photo assuming it [TS]

  shoved all-in edited into whatever it's using probably maybe a sequel a database [TS]

  or something maybe all the operations I'm doing 'cause a database operation [TS]

  that takes a ton of time because my database is stuffed with everything it [TS]

  and if I took all these photos out in re- imported them freshmen no metadata [TS]

  it will be fast I don't know I'm not excusing that because like I basically [TS]

  did you expect me to do I bought their program I use it to start my family [TS]

  photos for years the new one came out I did the import process and imported my [TS]

  photos and everything is super duper slow so I'm disappointed but I have some [TS]

  amount of hope seeing that it's it's obviously not CPU related I can't tell [TS]

  the brain related I'm hoping somehow things get faster in a future version [TS]

  because the experience of using photos and everything else that is actually not [TS]

  horrible excellent the other peaceful up we have and I think we're done is the [TS]

  keyboard track pad thing I S 900 name for that wiped not to type I don't know [TS]

  I think it was called QuickTime well whatever it's called whatever that thing [TS]

  is it apparently does work on not only the six plus in the iOS 9 beta but [TS]

  interestingly the six as well [TS]

  serenity Caldwell friend of the show has a six that she put I was nine on and it [TS]

  was working in on her phone as well which was slightly surprising to me not [TS]

  a bad thing of course but a little surprising though we should point that [TS]

  out as well are you guys running I was not on your carry phones you know who [TS]

  would do that some people to actually have a lot to do for a living [TS]

  we don't 34 years ago I would have done that but know this I I have it on my [TS]

  iPad which I hardly ever use and it keeps I keep coming back to it every [TS]

  couple of days to do something on it and the battery is completely dead [TS]

  my experience of my beloved Redknapp had many hi steven hack it is not quite that [TS]

  bad but it is certainly very slow it is certainly randomly rebooting and I know [TS]

  that because it did it says when you reboot you know you have to enter your [TS]

  passcode [TS]

  and it definitely is not getting the battery life I'm used to it [TS]

  getting however I do like it and I did use picture-in-picture when I was on the [TS]

  plane back from San Francisco I was watching the complications video while [TS]

  doing something else I don't recall specifically what and the picture in [TS]

  picture even on my now almost two year old iPad Mini was really really cool and [TS]

  it works reasonably well the only problem is that only works as with all [TS]

  these new features it only works with Apple apps early that's been my [TS]

  experience so far but all in all truth comes up in principle for iOS 91 thumb [TS]

  up for the beta so far our first bunch of this week is automatic automatic is a [TS]

  connected car adapter that plugs into your car's diagnostic port and they have [TS]

  smartphone apps that you couldn't do cool stuff with this and agreed to over [TS]

  20 different apps to give you a better driving experience they've sponsors [TS]

  before a bunch of new stuff since then so what it's always been able to do is [TS]

  you pair it with the automatic iPhone or Android app and then it can do a few [TS]

  cool things it can diagnose your check engine light I can tell you in plain [TS]

  English what's going on [TS]

  let you clear the area code of the temporary era like you let your gas cap [TS]

  open or something like that it can give you a log of your trips and your parking [TS]

  locations so you can track things like your fuel efficiency you can never lose [TS]

  your car parking lot if you have an accident [TS]

  automatically call emergency services for you to help get you the help that [TS]

  you might need and then it can also evaluate your driving efficiency and it [TS]

  gives you a score you can match your goals so that you can save money on gas [TS]

  can really add up to big savings over time now they actually launched their [TS]

  own little app store for the car they have over 20 apps available and this [TS]

  allows you to use your card data in all kinds of ways so just a few examples [TS]

  here they have an app called concur with that you pull your troops easily into [TS]

  your expense reports so if you work at a company casey you know you might have to [TS]

  do things like this they also have integration with if this then that ifttt [TS]

  which gives you the power to build all kinds of recipes based on your driving [TS]

  recipes of course is an apt term for you know various workflows and triggers in [TS]

  various things you can do [TS]

  based on certain events or stats happen while you are driving they also have a [TS]

  developer platform so that you you developers can build apps using the card [TS]

  as well as three level of data available for developers there's a REST API a [TS]

  real-time events apims streaming SDK the REST API is very very full featured it [TS]

  has you can request drivers trip histories distance routes times [TS]

  occasions miles per gallon and then you can even cooking launcher app on Heroku [TS]

  casey you can use your dinosaurs or whatever and make that work anyway go to [TS]

  developers are to learn more about that so anyway back to automatic [TS]

  device check it out whether you're a developer or not if you are a developer [TS]

  this is a pretty cool way to do new stuff that you can only do without [TS]

  something like this if you're not developer check out to help improve your [TS]

  driving and to give you all the cool features too maybe to use some of these [TS]

  cool apps use some of the API's you some of the triggers or just look at your [TS]

  metrics and get your measurements of check your engine light stuff like that [TS]

  very cool stuff normally this is a hundred bucks but for us it's 20% off on [TS] / ATP automatic dot com slash ATP or 20% off wings at two just 80 [TS]

  bucks that's free shipping in just two business days [TS]

  45 day return policy and there is no subscription fee per month [TS]

  you don't have to pay like you know five bucks a month the service or whatever no [TS]

  you buy that you buy the automatic device up front for 80 bucks with our [TS]

  coupon code on / ATP 80 bucks up front and that's it no monthly fee [TS]

  ships in 2 business days check it out Automattic com slash ATT thanks a lot [TS]

  right soon we should probably talk a little more about what was released in [TS]

  disgust at WBC to the best of our ability I don't know what is and what [TS]

  isn't in da anymore as far as I know nothings in da right you can download of [TS]

  the WBC videos without logging in Apple's website so I think we could talk [TS]

  about anything that is in the tub [TS]

  EDC videos excellent so with that in mind let's talk a little bit about the [TS]

  state of the union and some of the stuff that's been making the rounds over the [TS]

  last couple of days in the really nerdy developer circles specifically around [TS]

  bit codes so John you wanna come to give us an overview as to what this is first [TS]

  like after re-recorded episode of ABDC I realized that we didn't talk about bit [TS]

  like oh my god I totally spaced on that day [TS]

  forget because we didn't have any notes that I was just sitting there and no [TS]

  because we said we were going to cover the keynote and we went through the [TS]

  keynote and because it was not in the keynote so that in itself is a sure [TS]

  thing but what does what I was referring to before the announcement that I was [TS]

  most excited intrigued about WWC was that code in state of the union and for [TS]

  the rest of the week like boy I can't wait to learn more about bit code in the [TS]

  sessions and I you know you can't go to all the sessions the multi-track [TS]

  conference I didn't go to all the sessions none of the sessions I went to [TS]

  mention the word bit code nor I believe that any of them have the word on a [TS]

  slide however never met someone treating screenshots that the a planning session [TS]

  that I did go to previously had been coding the description of the session in [TS]

  a bit later removed and having gone to the session I don't think that code was [TS]

  mentioned there either so that didn't tell me much of a bit but the reason I [TS]

  was excited by it is in the state of the union [TS]

  video that we will link in the shots because everybody can download it or not [TS]

  the you know like anything was that it was going to be a way to have a [TS]

  processor agnostic platform agnostic error slightly more representation of [TS]

  your application that would be optimized for the specific platform that it's [TS]

  downloaded for and this was an intriguing announced a big is it free [TS]

  developers out because it is great fodder for speculation about rumors [TS]

  right now and you submitted to the App Store you can pilot you build a release [TS]

  build you uploaded in some ways it in Xcode right I've never done this [TS]

  the regular way to do it is in that used to be like bill dunno build IPAs it up [TS]

  uploaded their terrible web interface now you leave the terrible web interface [TS]

  to go to Xcode to prepare the uploaded do it off there there's probably a way [TS]

  to do without that kind of like advanced enterprise tools yet but i dont the way [TS]

  almost everyone does it is there but anyway it doesn't release build [TS]

  optimizations enabled enabled and it uploads the result to Apple and that is [TS]

  obviously it's signed by Apple they do some other things with it but in general [TS]

  expectation that the thing you built on your machine [TS]

  especially for Mac App Store it's like literally running on the thing like [TS]

  maybe less over iOS apps where you're always running in a simulator than you [TS]

  do there were these building the Iranian that on your device or whatever but [TS]

  anyway [TS]

  expectations the binary that you have made and tested is going to be the [TS]

  binary today lands on people's computers in a binary is compiled binary targeting [TS]

  a specific architecture you make for x86 64 you can make a farm 7 on 7s like all [TS]

  sorts of processors you can target to limit the harbour you can go on but the [TS]

  bottom line is you are creating a native binary executable that can run in iOS [TS]

  iOS 10 exactly as it is and if you were to do a 95 checks on well maybe not for [TS]

  the signing I tried to express the idea that like the thing to you to bog down [TS]

  your device you make a release build put on your device you use it that's the [TS]

  same codes gonna be executing on somebody else's device [TS]

  when they download the app from the store but but notice saying we're going [TS]

  to build something that is not native code for any processor and that's what [TS]

  we're gonna have on the store and at some point in the future I assume at [TS]

  down download but it really could be almost any time that code will be [TS]

  converted to native code that is specifically optimized for whatever [TS]

  happens to be running on the code itself is not new as part of LVM since I think [TS]

  version two previously called a bytecode I don't know if it ever was by code or [TS]

  they're just differences have a stream format is made but either way it's just [TS]

  a binary compact binary representation of how the mir which is the intermediary [TS]

  representation and backgrounds or somewhere else [TS]

  LDM originally was an acronym that stood for low-level virtual machine and now [TS]

  I'll be encompassed a much larger project that that's kind of a misnomer [TS]

  at this point but the mir really is kind of assembly code for an imaginary [TS]

  processor with some vaguely idealized characteristics link to my sweater thing [TS]

  I think I talked about LG mir and they're so big code is just the mir but [TS]

  instead of looking like texted is a compact representation if you can think [TS]

  of compiling the code starting source code and it being transformed several [TS]

  times till then she ends up in a binary view my eyes slightly before it's [TS]

  changed into machine code so they're saying we're going to turn your program [TS]

  at lvl IR code that I love the mir bitte code and that's what will have on the [TS]

  store and when someone you don't know when it's going to take place I assume [TS]

  it's on down low but you could you could take that big coat and download whatever [TS]

  device and when they run to compile just in time for their particular [TS]

  architecture I assume theyre gonna do when you go [TS]

  so that's the technique oh just of what they're doing here then they didn't talk [TS]

  a lot about so we don't know when this is all going to take place [TS]

  code is going from every year mandatory for what native watch get apps is that [TS]

  correct [TS]

  I believe that's right and it said optional for iOS apps for now and don't [TS]

  say anything about the Mac but I mean there is nothing technical that makes [TS]

  big code not able to work on the Mac or needs it would have to be mandatory in [TS]

  to watch the policy decisions you know the why is it mandatory to watch what's [TS]

  the newest platform nobody has made a native app for the watch except for [TS]

  Apple so it's not like it's a big changes they look this is just the way [TS]

  it doesn't know what she's gonna say it but you really spills are gonna upload [TS]

  but go to us and anyone else who gets it is going to get a a executable binary [TS]

  optimized for the particular piece of hardware heaven on so when they made his [TS]

  announcement keen on him in a bunch of silly tweets about how this could be [TS]

  obvious rumors he has all my god this means RMX because if you're trying to [TS]

  change the application representation to be this thing that's not specific to any [TS]

  one processor and the optimized it on the fly then you can change the process [TS]

  architecture and anytime right and then you were just three compile the code for [TS]

  the new architecture so they get everyone on tobacco and they changed our [TS]

  max developers who need to rebuild their absent resubmit and you would need that [TS]

  binaries would just be everything has been code and then you download to your [TS]

  Mac and turns it into an armed executable you download to your x86 XA [TS]

  executable that is the immediate fantasy rumor and people hear about that good [TS]

  unfortunately as fun as that would be to speculate about that's not really the [TS]

  mir because of work on mir [TS]

  although it is kind of imaginary assembling for an imaginary processor it [TS]

  has things in it that are specific to [TS]

  and instruction set architecture it's not complete pin down but it's it's not [TS]

  the type of thing where you brothers up we're talking about the Indian this in [TS]

  my research I determined that there is much more instruction set specific stuff [TS]

  in elevator RRR than you would imagine it's not just a wealthy almost [TS]

  completely presses are not to give him when we turned into a single we could [TS]

  turn into machine code for any processor that seems not to be the case I've been [TS]

  trying to find out what what are the the nature and number of those things like [TS]

  that you know what is it about all of you are that that spin down to [TS]

  particular instruction set and how deep does it go to find any good examples [TS]

  above looking up I'm looking at the album source code I realize I'm in over [TS]

  my head and understand if you are entertaining fantasy is a bit code [TS]

  meaning that if all routes are updated code they can change processes that any [TS]

  problems that as far as I can tell us absolutely not the case so that's why [TS]

  the hell does not exist if not for my fantasy scenario enabling our max guys [TS]

  are many theories well I mean there's a lot of other optimizations they could do [TS]

  like you know maybe maybe this will just help them first of all there's like just [TS]

  better optimizations for the next step in I don't know quite how low level the [TS]

  big code is but I imagine is not just like a text version of assembly code [TS]

  like I imagine it's like a little bit higher than that so you know if if they [TS]

  develop new optimizations for think for how to translate that into the same [TS]

  language even within the same CPU family just over time to develop some [TS]

  coordination they can apply that to ABS more significantly probably they could [TS]

  you know when when you move when you make a minor update within a CPU [TS]

  architecture you go like you know from you know army the 70 S two armed v70 [TS]

  whatever I don't know all those names in which ones are minor but you know you [TS]

  know like when Intel releases a new CPU with new streaming instructions new [TS]

  vector instructions like you know if there's a way for them to use it could [TS]

  to richer actually optimized apps for new instructions and and things like [TS]

  that for four more minor CPU provisions that could be useful I don't know how [TS]

  useful that is a No as a percentage of overall performance and I i dont think I [TS]

  don't see why this is worth the trouble yet and I think over time we will see [TS]

  what it's worth the trouble but right now it is not immediately apparent [TS]

  because you're I like the big changes would involve things like by order [TS]

  change his hair like that that's a that's a bigger problem and this can [TS]

  automatically deal with that properly because of the level at which by order [TS]

  assumptions happened just can't do it I think it's even deeper that even if even [TS]

  if you had architecture that the same by a daughter ldmi are still pins things [TS]

  down with a target architecture in mind because that representation is the thing [TS]

  that the optimizer can work on it like it's marked up more than assembly would [TS]

  be like the thing that consumes LLVM IR and and outputs machine code it knows [TS]

  much more about the structure of things to tell them you are sort of annotated [TS]

  with much more information that assembly would be to say to indicate you know [TS]

  types and from whence bit of code came and you know what a function is and it's [TS]

  not just it's not just a nasty representation machine code far from it [TS]

  so that's that's why God can optimize it in a way that you can't optimize if you [TS]

  just had a smile and so now optimized thoughts observations you can't do to [TS]

  play all the family did you just don't know [TS]

  enough about the meaning of the original programs like well this assembly does [TS]

  what it does I don't know if it's safe to make this transformation but the mir [TS]

  has more information before we get into like the worth the trouble I program to [TS]

  the trouble aspect of it interesting to think about why this is even possible [TS]

  error thing is this is only possible if only feasible because Apple controls [TS]

  that means of distribution for all iOS and watch applications setting aside [TS]

  jailbreaking blah blah right that means that they can they can mandate this and [TS]

  say guess what you're going to bed cover the watch right to take over the life [TS]

  and be they know where everybody's getting there was kidnapped from so if [TS]

  the only source for watch kidnaps only ever has been code any benefits are [TS]

  talking about a second that might that they may have will benefit the entire [TS]

  platforms i well it'll benefit like I'm a cat in the Mac well benefit for people [TS]

  down for the Mac App Store but people can put DMD is up on their websites that [TS]

  do or don't have been code in it so you know like you're not getting at events [TS]

  across the platform before I was no watch whatever benefits thing is getting [TS]

  it gets everywhere I have to go through conversion the watch will be big coat [TS]

  off all because from the beginning so it lots of interesting things become [TS]

  possible when all your software finals to a single point what's a good things [TS]

  and bad things and I think Apple's hoping this is one of the good things [TS]

  and bad things I think about big code what scares me as a developer you know [TS]

  like a lot of developers and saying well this is gonna change my binary I'm [TS]

  worried about crashing and so that that's valid I'm not necessarily worried [TS]

  about that myself although that doesn't reduce an interesting problem of this [TS]

  would then reel like you know if if this assay crashing on an iPhone 5s and you [TS]

  don't have an iPhone 5s because now at all and you don't have it anymore I [TS]

  never going to begin with [TS]

  then you might have to go get an iPhone 5s Stephen reproduce the crash if you'll [TS]

  even be able to so that that's a problem at the minor 10 to meet the bigger [TS]

  problem here is if you look at you know what you mentioned earlier about how [TS]

  developers want people to build their final binary ship it to Apple and ensure [TS]

  that it had that have that the devices said they know the final bits they built [TS]

  in reality that has never quite been the case because of code signing and even [TS]

  though it's not technically part of the a binary it's an important enough part [TS]

  that every so often as I ran into its paper on time ago and as as still [TS]

  happens with somebody every few months every so often [TS]

  code signing breaks I Apple side and something goes wrong [TS]

  where absolute reach the App Store with invalid code signing by Apple and so [TS]

  what happens to the user is they tack to open them and they appear to just crash [TS]

  immediately on lunch you see you might see the the launch default image but for [TS]

  the most part they just crash on launch they appear to be at least in reality it [TS]

  just failing and exiting but every so often you have this problem is a [TS]

  developer where your app crashes because Apple messed up while modifying it on [TS]

  the way to the store but code is now giving them another way to do that it's [TS]

  it's another opportunity for things to go wrong that worries me is not that [TS]

  that it could abstraction would be insufficiently tested that it could [TS]

  optimization would go wrong what worries me is like now there's another step [TS]

  between me and the customers regardless of what that step is there's another [TS]

  step that can cause problems when it breaks and I'm not even using if it [TS]

  breaks me know these things break sometimes that is what is the big risk [TS]

  here is like yet another thing that Apple's going to modify about my app on [TS]

  the way the customers that might occasionally go wrong [TS]

  yeah that's what developers are wary about is a loss of control like already [TS]

  you know you're not controlling year [TS]

  distributed doing so on several different technical perspective you [TS]

  always want to have the ability to have the exact same thing running customers [TS]

  have even if you can actually communicate with them you you want to [TS]

  know you want too predictable chain of events and there's always parts that are [TS]

  not really even though Xcode is running on your system you know the internal [TS]

  compiler bug in a planned release of Xcode that holds your binary that [TS]

  somehow makes it run you know there's always bugs but adding more of those [TS]

  things makes developers feel uncomfortable and its uncertainty like [TS]

  everything battling with code signing for tens of years now and address book [TS]

  crazy for a variety of reasons but this is a dozen other things I was gonna be [TS]

  worse than code signing is in terms of things get the fight with I think it'll [TS]

  probably be better just because especially in the short term this is [TS]

  just sort of stopping short of that final step targeting at this point a [TS]

  single architecture because they're only is one apple watch rights of their some [TS]

  runway for them to work out the kinks in this guide is like I don't know how it's [TS]

  going to be at what you will know how can we built because when you up with a [TS]

  big go to the store it's going to convert to binary exactly the same way [TS]

  doesn't everybody has the same watches only one watch right so it's an ideal [TS]

  platform to test this out on what people are worried about is I tested on my [TS]

  devices but like you said that when when compared with a five turns out the [TS]

  optimizer do something bad on the 85 and crashes and I don't have an 85 device [TS]

  maybe that will happen with the binary but you're not entirely sure like for [TS]

  example the compiler limited instruction that has better performance [TS]

  characteristics are revealed a bug or something on the 85 you wouldn't know [TS]

  that unless you ran it done at five so not having an 85 could be a problem in [TS]

  all situations [TS]

  trying to think about why Apple would want to do this again basically ruling [TS]

  out of this makes it this makes us able to change processor architectures easley [TS]

  I don't think this is [TS]

  helps or hurts in that regard but it does change as mara said the minor parts [TS]

  of the architecture they make their own chips essentially at this point [TS]

  different chip set of different vector units maybe they had an instruction here [TS]

  to maybe the they tweak something maybe they try to change one of their you know [TS]

  underlying framework so libraries to do something smarter on the new the a 98 [TS]

  end of the day 11 of these things may seem like minor concerns but from [TS]

  Apple's perspective if if they do something with a call me a 10 and they [TS]

  you know change around a bunch of things having to do with like number register [TS]

  pipeline debt size of the vector units like newark new specialized instruction [TS]

  for a particular thing they're helpless to change all day or the millions I [TS]

  don't know how many out there on the App Store lots and lots of apps on the App [TS]

  Store that are already compiled into machine code and there's nothing they [TS]

  can do short of Megan developer saying hey Europe not so much would run faster [TS]

  but he rapidly much kinder to our battery if you just reading pilot [TS]

  because actually all of this whatever cardio core image whatever like a DSP [TS]

  whatever little library using in your app if you can reach him pilot for the [TS]

  a10 it would be much nicer for better or for the estuarine ps3 or whatever I'm [TS]

  thinking mostly in terms of battery life and performance because that's where I [TS]

  am constrained these days [TS]

  and they have no leverage to do that so you know it's such a control freak is [TS]

  accompanied by like you know it makes their products but how can they convince [TS]

  a million developers to rebuild out they can't and people just keep downloading [TS]

  apps to keep slaughtering their batteries even though Apple has done [TS]

  this super hard work in a 98 any 11 or whatever SNSD's for to try to make a [TS]

  more battery efficient architecture and because they do control the means of [TS]

  distribution of all the apps like we've got all these absurd ago these binaries [TS]

  but they're not taking advantage of all the hard work we're doing it on the [TS]

  watch it then a good bit code from day one they can be assured that it in a ps2 [TS]

  and ps3 massively more battery efficient by tweaking the particular instructions [TS]

  that they have that they don't need developers to rebuild the route they [TS]

  will do it they will when they optimize the code to make the native binary for [TS]

  the s3 they will do the transformation that uses the new instructions that are [TS]

  nice run the battery on the s3 so you're saying map but you didn't have to [TS]

  recompile that you never looked at but you just put in the store whatever your [TS]

  you know will do here and a lot of games with that would be the ideal case will [TS]

  suddenly be more battery efficient on the history without you having to do [TS]

  anything that may seem like a minor thing but I think that is more than [TS]

  enough reason for Apple to want to do this because that's exactly what they [TS]

  want to do what I can only Apple do only Apple makes us on CPU is makes its own [TS]

  compiler [TS]

  content roles the distribution of all the applications like they have the [TS]

  complete package here and this is one of those things you can do and you had to [TS]

  complete package and i think thats probably much more exciting for Apple [TS]

  than it is for us on the outside and I think a bowl is going to endure the [TS]

  potential scariness for developers I mean they've proven their boxing but the [TS]

  code signing the developers were under it because that's where the customers [TS]

  are and that's where the money is and you gotta do what you gotta do but I [TS]

  definitely think this is the most interesting and probably least [TS]

  understood including by me because Apple said nothing about it [TS]

  announcement WABC I'm very interested in [TS]

  and learning more about it from anyone who's going to tell me about it now I [TS]

  think you hit the nail on the head John that basically this is about keeping [TS]

  keeping their options open and Apple tends from what we can tell to like to [TS]

  keep their options open so I'm curious to see like you said where where this [TS]

  goes in and if we'll ever hear of a time where where apple says which I doubt but [TS]

  you know hey this is all possible because a bit code you know we've all [TS]

  kind of realize that say iPad multitasking is possible because of auto [TS]

  layout and and size classes and that's kind of been a wink and a nod from Apple [TS]

  that has obviously cannot put it together but also indicated that so I'm [TS]

  anxious to hear more about this as time goes on I know I want to even mention it [TS]

  again but like in terms of like oh future possibilities it's not so its [TS]

  future from Apple's perspective because the you know the a 90 s to the s3 VA 10 [TS]

  those are all real things inside Apple with like probably you know some of them [TS]

  probably done some have designed so if they're going to dinner with some [TS]

  instructions for battery efficiency doesn't directions already exist they're [TS]

  already in that situation but they say when released yes to all of our watch [TS]

  binaries are not going to take advantage of these great new instructions that we [TS]

  we've added or tweaked or these new execution units are the different [TS]

  registry layered or whatever because the machine code is already been built and [TS]

  the lips have already been rolled and the you know all that stuff like we [TS]

  can't rely on the Rename registers do all the shuffling for us like that if [TS]

  only we could rebuild all the watch by Ares take advantage of what we know is [TS]

  going to be a great feature two or three because it's already done there to have [TS]

  those features so from our perspective it's like a couple of possibilities from [TS]

  Apple's respective is we're doing this now because we know for sure because [TS]

  we're making the chips that we don't want a bunch of binaries built for the [TS]

  s1 to be stuck in the store for years and years because we can't get [TS]

  developers to read them and and I was again that the transition that [TS]

  and the Mac they're stuck in a situation where the bottom line is I don't know [TS]

  what's most but certainly not all Mac software comes from the Mac App Store so [TS]

  I'm not sure where they're going to there but I guess this technology they [TS]

  could do it in the nightcap store they get there are doing and I was in the [TS]

  watch it just seems like it has less less than advantage then frankly don't [TS]

  care that much seems problematic like you know when to rebuild your binaries [TS]

  to take it be there to make the CPUs Intel does and so they're not as privy [TS]

  to Intel's remember the art to the a line of processors I wonder also you [TS]

  know how much of this is in response to in preparation for the world we live in [TS]

  now to the back in the olden days you know 2008 2009 early to the App Store [TS]

  Apple could announce any change really or lease any new hardware and very large [TS]

  portion of apps in the store would be updated within a reasonable time to to [TS]

  account there to accommodate that they could release like you know the iPad and [TS]

  developers adapted to that they eventually released you know even even [TS]

  if it is the iPhone 5 they would release a new screen size and most absurd [TS]

  updated relatively quickly to it but I think either seeing the rate of that is [TS]

  slowing down dramatically so now we have apps like the iPhone 6 is now almost a [TS]

  year old and six plus there are almost a year old we're seeing apps from from [TS]

  people who have other users but don't necessarily care about their apps like [TS]

  thanks we're seeing absolutely I I still have so many apps on my phone from [TS]

  companies that have player resources to update them that don't even run natively [TS]

  on the iPhone 63 still some of them were even adding other features like I think [TS]

  somebody said their bank support Apple may now but their apps till 2006 I mean [TS]

  the iPhone 6 green like it there are so many things and the way Apple usually [TS]

  adds new features or new support ads is they build instead of compatibility mode [TS]

  with the apt scales to the new screen size or whatever the case may be or [TS]

  doesn't get the new features or whatever [TS]

  and only absurd are built with the new SDK that are compiled against the new [TS]

  SDK only they get the new features and they do this so that when you add 800 S [TS]

  is a whole bunch of apps don't break the limitation the downside to this is like [TS]

  right now everyone's installing the beta of iOS nine on their iPad air to try [TS]

  screen and none of the third party apps work yet because only third-party added [TS]

  built with the week old I was nine SDK and other somehow I now available to [TS]

  their customers which can't even used in the App Store it's only through test [TS]

  flight only those will be running in split screen mode and so you have this [TS]

  new feature and then when when this when I was nine and released this fall [TS]

  presumably with a larger iPad also maybe the vast majority of iPad apps out there [TS]

  are not gonna be compatible with these new features there they might be [TS]

  compatible with the new iPad screen size and that hurts Apple it hurts Apple's [TS]

  hardware ambitions and and there and pushing the roadmap forward and pushing [TS]

  the software SDK for it hurts them that so many apps are not being updated in a [TS]

  reason amount of time to their new stuff so they have to come up with ways to to [TS]

  increase the chances they can stop everyone in rather than right now we're [TS]

  ever going to opt out of new changes and so one of those things it auto layout [TS]

  one of those things is launched image story boards instead of just flat images [TS]

  and maybe because part of that too and in what is probably a small way but it [TS]

  has related to this is a big problem Apple faces in the app library these [TS]

  days and I see that only getting worse in the future as not only as the [TS]

  economics of the App Store get harder but also as Apple seems to be increasing [TS]

  the rate at which they are adding new device capabilities and a new screen [TS]

  sizes and on the watch maybe when you know wacho s3 comes out next year [TS]

  presumably you know the watch layout is so simple it's this kind of like staff [TS]

  view-based higher killing what you get in to watch layout wise you I was so [TS]

  simple [TS]

  that if they added a new watch screen size next year or the this fall or [TS]

  spring whatever if they added new screen size to the watch they might be able to [TS]

  just popped everyone in they might not have to the default opt out in scale to [TS]

  some stupid stupid Blair illusion they might be able to just about everyone in [TS]

  and it just works because apps are so limited in what they could do layout [TS]

  wise they've been beaten over the head and a woman watch kissing don't assume [TS]

  the screen size and with things like bit code and also let you know that maybe [TS]

  this is all going towards that goal only time will tell but what else is also me [TS]

  status our second budget this week is Squarespace Squarespace build it [TS]

  beautiful [TS]

  you can build so many times to me kind of website with Squarespace it is so [TS]

  hard to justify the building a website any other way for so many types of [TS]

  things so let's say you're building a site for yourself your you know you have [TS]

  a blog a portfolio of your photographer get a photo portfolio [TS]

  my wife uses for that she loves it you know maybe you have a restaurant or [TS]

  business you want to cite for that if you want you know if you want to have a [TS]

  store where you sell t-shirts you can do that if you want to have you know a site [TS]

  for a book or an album or whatever you can do all this with Squarespace there [TS]

  are so many kind of site you can make the Squarespace now I use a lot of tools [TS]

  for building that's before and I can build my own website from scratch I know [TS]

  how to run servers but in so many cases it's just not worth it even for geeks [TS]

  like us it is so often just worth posting on Squarespace rather than [TS]

  setting up your own server somewhere or building your own CNS from scratch it is [TS]

  it is so really worth doing that so Squarespace makes it simple powerful and [TS]

  beautiful to make websites they have a robust and reliable platform state of [TS]

  the art technology powering your site they ensure maximum stability under load [TS]

  if you get like slammed by the traffic load they will keep your site up their [TS]

  maximum security you don't have to worry about your cycling [TS]

  I don't think I've ever heard of a square space hack honestly I can [TS]

  remember one that's pretty impressive for a free service that size all their [TS]

  designs are beautiful and professionally designed and there are responsive senior [TS]

  design looks great [TS]

  every device every time the screen sizes change over time and as new things are [TS]

  added squares pieces on top of it as I mentioned earlier if you want to have a [TS]

  store with commerce you can sell digital or physical goods it's all included in [TS]

  the platform so check all this out there so much you can do in Squarespace [TS]

  everything is WYSIWYG what you see is what you get I don't know how to [TS]

  pronounce that like that but I'm not gonna say was he would everything is [TS]

  with you with everything you do you can drag and drop in you can move things [TS]

  around or if you wanna actually inject code you can do that to you can write in [TS]

  markdown if you want to really cool stuff check it out now [TS]

  normally they offer aid they have a free trial with no credit card required now [TS]

  they have a special deal now if you start your trial soon before June 30th [TS]

  if you sign up for its Christmas a professional or business plan you will [TS]

  get a free year of custom email and business tools when you signed up so [TS]

  start your free trial now to get in this deal before June 30th then when you buy [TS]

  you can get the four-year email and business tools for the professional [TS]

  business plans to check it out [TS]

  otherwise if you don't need that area or you know if you missed the deadline [TS]

  don't worry try to Newaygo to Squarespace dot com use offer code ATP [TS]

  to get 10% off your first purchase and show your support for our show so once [TS]

  again square start a free trial no credit card required it's great [TS]

  site see if you like it if you do like it [TS]

  use coupon code ATP for 10% off your first purchase thank you very much [TS]

  Squarespace build a beautiful when I save you from feedback that you may get [TS]

  Marco after last talked about the analogy between size classes and other [TS]

  stuff [TS]

  marco was not suggesting that allow your applications to run a different screen [TS]

  sizes he was making was making an analogy and I'm saying like you know [TS]

  it's I think it's part of the overall picture of like trying to get to the [TS]

  park to the point where Apple can make a new device that might have a new screen [TS]

  size that might have a new CPU they can make your device and they can opt apps [TS]

  into the new features are rather than the right now we're absolutely opt out [TS]

  until they're built the new SDK [TS]

  getting much better at it you can feel frustration you know i mean they tended [TS]

  to themselves like well what do you mean you know i phone SDK I guess here let's [TS]

  let the state like it was you know it's everything was fixed size and they [TS]

  change the screen size they had you know it's like they're working as we said [TS]

  they're working their way up to what they have now which is a much more [TS]

  flexible layout system that can lend itself to features likes but took a long [TS]

  time to get there but it's really hard to do that like even on the watch I get [TS]

  to watch you I is so limited surely the people doing the watch can never hear [TS]

  like keep in mind that screen sizes may change so we should do everything we can [TS]

  be done this we've been through this once before so watch it they make sure [TS]

  we do everything so that nothing is fixed size nothing is specified in the [TS]

  you know like just really a very limited API but even then it's so hard to do [TS]

  things in a general way they're trying to telegraph future stuff there it's [TS]

  just so hard to do everything in general a good example is what was that one of [TS]

  the sessions are talking about the complications sizes and the graphics the [TS]

  you can include like you can include one graphic for 38 millimeters eyes on [TS]

  graphic to the 48 million and then and then and at to exercise and they said [TS]

  you know if you don't include any other ones will just fall back tattoo X also [TS]

  it is a watch that is not 48 and not not 30 38 and 42 millimeters will use the [TS]

  two acts and so they don't want to say we're going to make a 38 of 42 and 46 [TS]

  that would tell you after having a 46 but at the same time if they come out [TS]

  with a different watch size good app developers are going to want to make a [TS]

  pixel perfect size for the new watch size of because they don't know what [TS]

  that watch size is they just have one kind of fall by Clay County use and it [TS]

  pinched so you know it's better than not having a ball back its better probably [TS]

  than scaling the 38 to 42 size up but you know it's just so there are some [TS]

  things that just have to be fixed for the advice you doing particular our [TS]

  fantasy back on a day like everything will be better than it will look good [TS]

  but that's not the reality of pixel art you know good good UI designs especially [TS]

  when they're microscopic watch someone's got to sit in there with the individual [TS]

  pixels and later [TS]

  think of the new size having something scales better than nothing but your [TS]

  gonna have to go through and changes anyway and I mean just like this you [TS]

  can't make it so that we can do anything and all your apps run perfectly and take [TS]

  advantage of all the new features such as doing trying to do everything they [TS]

  can and because the harbourside about like under the covers we keep doing a [TS]

  bunch of crap down there and we hate the fact that you buy an area that you [TS]

  haven't updated in two years it's gonna be plugged into people's phones because [TS]

  they love your game or whatever and your feet [TS]

  yeah so that's all the motivation for Apple do this so clear to me and the the [TS]

  discomfort from developers I don't wanna make a prediction but I'm really hoping [TS]

  that it turns out to be mostly a non-issue in the same way that you know [TS]

  I compiler bugs and stuff like that or even cosign difficulties like in the [TS]

  grand scheme of things [TS]

  a preview policies feel like a much larger both potential and actual damage [TS]

  to the experience of developers then boxes bugs get fixed bugs even when they [TS]

  do with the code so that was pretty much the biggest disaster could possibly [TS]

  imagine [TS]

  basics right where that store policies [TS]

  try to convince someone that it's about his future is it about is it intended [TS]

  is it not an accidental but the actual effects much more difficult so I have [TS]

  confidence that bugs will be addressed and fixed and I hope there aren't too [TS]

  many of them all right we should probably talk about with two and i dont [TS]

  member forgot to this during the last episode or not but among other things [TS]

  it's going to be open source later this year including support for Linux coming [TS]

  directly from Apple which is pretty exciting and interesting and I for one [TS]

  am extremely curious to see what kind of adoption it gets from the Linux neck [TS]

  beards and all the serb sides server-side developers that that run on [TS]

  Linux demarco you're you're one of those I'm curious to see how that goes because [TS]

  obviously javaScript seems to in many ways be the flavour du jour 44 new [TS]

  server development obviously node but she goes to show that doesn't need to be [TS]

  a good language to it since it's a phone the server but anyway the whole reason [TS]

  jobs on the server is because the client that's right people i dont want two [TS]

  different code bases in December I think I have the same code in all places I [TS]

  can't change they go to the browser they're going to change it's it's a it's [TS]

  a tragedy but it is it's like an infection just leaking out you know I [TS]

  have never played pandemic but I imagine this is what the game board looks like [TS]

  board game reference for Marco I i have been endemic thank you I'm sure you do I [TS]

  i'm waiting for you next year is the web framework thing to be VBScript god no [TS]

  just just now anyway so with lift you were gonna get sued for Linux and the [TS]

  other thing that was interesting that Swift to end this seems to be kind of [TS]

  the darling wEDC talk this year more so than I can recall from previous years [TS]

  everyone seems to be consistently pointing to what was a protocol oriented [TS]

  programming and swift is that correct before I took a big dump all over the [TS]

  tensions I wanted to say nothing about support for Linux like we did talk about [TS]

  open source that wasn't the keynote the reason I put it in there as well we [TS]

  didn't talk about it but you just mentioned like that Apple said hey we're [TS]

  open sourcing it Bubba blah and open source you know stand librarian swiftly [TS]

  well you know I was 10 and also Linux the word Linux was on a slide [TS]

  presentation [TS]

  Apple is not I assume for Linux the goodness of their heart and so you have [TS]

  to ask why are they making it one potential reason is if you're going to [TS]

  open source something with the idea of you know we talked about his last show [TS]

  making swift viable for a larger community languages can't be confined [TS]

  proprietary the limits you know you're not gonna get world domination with [TS]

  swift if it's just an Apple has to be everywhere and if you just open sourcing [TS]

  it isn't enough to show that it's everywhere it helps to have a place [TS]

  where you can park to say see it actually is portable it's not just about [TS]

  the source code you can even build anywhere else [TS]

  Linux is a super popular platform Linux is the open-source darling here is a [TS]

  Linux version you can compile and run on Linux and do some things on Linux both [TS]

  approved ourselves that we are correctly open source of things which they haven't [TS]

  yet by the way it's like by the end of the year and two to show that it's real [TS]

  to show that is not like an empty political gesture the other possibility [TS]

  is that and getting us into the you are potentially the more likely possibility [TS]

  is that Apple has a bunch of service to and I'm pretty sure Apple servers aren't [TS]

  a bunch of exercise at this point and I'm sure Apple probably has more swift [TS]

  code than any other corporation in the world to this point [TS]

  pretty much guarantee that one would hope and they might want to run the same [TS]

  code or the same libraries on both their clients which are iOS devices and Max [TS]

  and their servers which presumably again are not exercise running OS 10 so if [TS]

  Apple has Linux servers and Apple has devices that you know libraries that [TS]

  they may cancel if they can run these devices will be nice if they could run [TS]

  to left on the server because they actually happened to have servers [TS]

  so I don't know the lineage of suggestions for Linux if it was always a [TS]

  thing inside Apple ever came out of the open-source effort but I think the [TS]

  reason Apple has to offer Linux is for their own use open-source the open [TS]

  source again as the biggest they want the language to be bigger than just one [TS]

  company but Smith for Linux being a thing really makes me think that they [TS]

  want to run at least one experiment with maybe not going to be a thing maybe it [TS]

  won't work out or whatever but at the very least it's something I wanna try [TS]

  internally and it makes perfect sense to them because we talk about the web [TS]

  browser if you're if your Google may make sense to run job jobs do anyway [TS]

  having libraries that running ever in the browsers and being able to deny me [TS]

  to duplicate that in this area side and if Apple has a bunch of libraries are on [TS]

  everybody's phones did do some operation or whatever it would be nice not that [TS]

  occurred on the server side so you can do both lines oversight so that is my [TS]

  tinfoil hat very forceful for Linux and is not a good start [TS]

  Apple really ever do anything out of the goodness of their heart open sourcing is [TS]

  closed pretty much as close as you can get because that you could argue like [TS]

  I'm sure they had to happen like this it really bad apple also yeah we'll have [TS]

  more eyes on swifter more people using it and if it's with becomes the next [TS]

  really popular language and it's you know adopted everywhere that's good for [TS]

  us because we've become better the more people use it all of that is true but [TS]

  the counter argument is well Objective C technically was not like Apple provider [TS]

  it really was the only one using it interesting and and that seemed to work [TS]

  out fine for us it's not like we suffered by the world not hiking and [TS]

  objectives the for us even though they could have been in theory so what's the [TS]

  big deal so can be proprietary language we don't care of the world outside [TS]

  really care about what happens to a person out there and that's fine [TS]

  so the open source thing like that all the arguments against that eventually [TS]

  straight into altruism and you know sort of the newly discovered this new message [TS]

  at the bottom of Apple's press releases did you guys know that every day footer [TS]

  of a press release it used to be apple ignited the personal computer revolution [TS]

  with the Apple to a blah blah blah blah then they took up the Apple to talk [TS]

  about the Mac and iPhone and iPod likely changes like a paragraph of the bottom [TS]

  every press release this claim to that capitalist and the current version I [TS]

  believe start to the Mac and iPhone iPad blah blah blah watch this watch anyway [TS]

  they added a bit that says like Apple employees are blah blah blah dedicated [TS]

  to leaving the world better than they found it like it's Tim Cook -ism that is [TS]

  now as leaving the world better than we found it that's altruism like it's not [TS]

  you know making the most money possible increasing value for shareholders least [TS]

  making the world better than we found that's all that you know diversity stuff [TS]

  the Renewable Energy stuff and you know maybe throw open sourcing so often there [TS]

  so I'm I'm not too cynical to believe that you know that that wording change [TS]

  that had to be you see it comes from Tim Cook this is his he's putting his stamp [TS]

  on the corporation and its a stamp that I like I'm interested to see what comes [TS]

  of this you know like does it get used at all or does it just kind of sit there [TS]

  in obscurity like Apple's other open-source efforts mostly have and I [TS]

  figured as a as a server-side developer as a web developer as a Service [TS]

  developer why would you choose to use this over something else and you rightly [TS]

  code sharing is a big part of it but again like until the library situation [TS]

  shakes out you know yet they said you know obviously the swift stares library [TS]

  will be there but that's there's not a lot in the standard library there's a [TS]

  there's like a lot of things that almost every kind of app would need that would [TS]

  need like one of that don't exist there so that is going to be a problem as [TS]

  limitations for for a long time [TS]

  so I think like you know you look at other languages that are out there that [TS]

  have more library or framework or community support behind them [TS]

  language and even dangerous they're cool new and modern if you if you wanna throw [TS]

  note in there you can I will allow that temporarily I would also say things like [TS]

  you know Python and Java of somewhat [TS]

  trust you know it the newer ones like you there I won't even say PHP but you [TS]

  know you people know it a lot there it is it's going to be a tough sell to [TS]

  people to to to use swift over this almost embarrassment of riches of other [TS]

  well-established good Web languages that have tons of libraries and great [TS]

  frameworks already huge community around them finding bugs before they weren't [TS]

  before they hit you [TS]

  documenting things making tutorials writing books like there's there's so [TS]

  many languages out there already that have great resources increased support [TS]

  behind them I wonder if swift will be able to get a foothold in that the way [TS]

  Apple as most of the day operate and with limitation its most likely to have [TS]

  especially in the area of libraries and that that I think we'll have to wait see [TS]

  someone could always take it and run with it like it's not just the the [TS]

  website some of you swift as an alternate to C++ for the new thing [TS]

  they're making me and i dont have no idea what couples SDKs like or what it [TS]

  is but you know you're making some small device used I don't want to use C++ to [TS]

  make you know you're going to be the one making the API and the framework maybe [TS]

  you want to use before like the rust is that those guys right there they're [TS]

  using that as a better memory safe alternative to C++ to do kind of the [TS]

  same type of job of C++ there it's not it's not just all about what about the [TS]

  whole thing was swift is it supposed to be a language that can span from writing [TS]

  an operating system all the way up to you know they don't say this but you [TS]

  know like it could be an alternative jobs given the web browsers lowest of [TS]

  the low level to the highest of the high-level [TS]

  and swift that's that's aspirational this point it's certainly aspirational [TS]

  because like no one here in an operating system and swift and nobody actually has [TS]

  used within a web browser is an alternate to JavaScript but it is [TS]

  expanding out where to buy open source and you never gonna be able to expand to [TS]

  failure [TS]

  your you know your aspirational target if you don't open source as a [TS]

  prerequisite and so you're right it's there are lots of barriers between here [TS]

  and there but even in the worst-case the worst cases no never use it except for [TS]

  Apple at least then some poor Apple developers gonna have the ability to see [TS]

  the source code that's causing the problem may be sent to patch even if it [TS]

  happens only between it registered Apple developer Apple that's still better how [TS]

  many apple turnovers wouldn't killed the source code her continued I could just [TS]

  so so I think there is no downside open sourcing other than the resources [TS]

  they're gonna have to spend to deal with the open sourcing but those times you [TS]

  know I thought you can hire people to do that and it's kind of a fun job and they [TS]

  don't need to be multi-year experts to handle it [TS]

  the other thing that strikes me is swift seems to be and language written by a [TS]

  compiler guy for kind of compiler guys and for those those sorts of people that [TS]

  really kind of get off on that the nitty-gritty about language and that's [TS]

  not a bad thing at all but if there was any audience or any any group or any way [TS]

  to target [TS]

  compiler and men and women then I would imagine that the Linux crowd is the way [TS]

  to do it in so it very well may peak some interest in that in that in that [TS]

  circle and certainly this is a group that loves you know having a new [TS]

  JavaScript framework everyday so who knows maybe somebody will decide you [TS]

  know what this is pretty cool I'm gonna build my swift remarked the question I [TS]

  wanted to ask the two of you guys do you think this is the beginning of the end [TS]

  of web objects was there beginning of web objects [TS]

  well you know i mean of Apple's reliance I think we're like we're we're like in [TS]

  two days seventeen of the end of a really long [TS]

  and I don't see a bright future for of objects but I know Apple has a lot of [TS]

  code written in it [TS]

  well that's the thing that's what I'm driving it is you know yes I think we [TS]

  ought we can all agree that they want web objects to die in a fire but I don't [TS]

  i i don't see any particular impetus or perhaps compulsion for them to get rid [TS]

  of it other than it being cold and not well supported technology and if they're [TS]

  going all in on swift across the corporation then maybe that includes you [TS]

  like the iTunes Music Store among other things I don't think they're going [TS]

  all-in I think it's baby steps here but like I think the problem they have a lot [TS]

  of texts alright what do we replace it with and all the choices are things that [TS]

  Apple controls less you regardless of how much better you may believe they are [TS]

  the objects things that controls less and you don't want to write a bunch of [TS]

  working code and Apple unlike Google is not constantly thinking about how it can [TS]

  improve every aspect of all 12 operations like their key things that is [TS]

  concentrating on with good reason like about it is he ready templates to cloud [TS]

  kid that is a big paid point although people you know like web objects if you [TS]

  click through our stores and buy stuff it's performing fine even if it's like [TS]

  the function not really being enhanced that bright future it's more important [TS]

  to think so [TS]

  maybe long term they can you know for Linux they could try it out and some [TS]

  small application server side thing and see if it works out like these are very [TS]

  early days but like someone is staring at their web objects and going as I can [TS]

  you identify COBOL code we're telling people who know how to deal with it at [TS]

  all [TS]

  sixty years old and really expensive as they don't want to work anymore and you [TS]

  just let it go too far when he's not at that face yet and you know someone who [TS]

  resurrected someday you never know stranger things have happened but that [TS]

  like the the talent aspect I think might be a big part of this imagine Apple [TS]

  already seems to have some issues retaining talent because they're there [TS]

  you know the things they do are are increasingly they have an increasing [TS]

  number of like boring things that have to be done and there's so many other [TS]

  things like it if you work at Apple you probably get a niche constantly make [TS]

  your own like that I bet that's a big problem anyway so you know to help [TS]

  retain talent I think first of all your help track down the first place if [TS]

  they're gonna grow their their cloud services stuff of state almost certainly [TS]

  are and almost certainly need to they need to figure out how to attract more [TS]

  programmers who want to work on this stuff and if you think about the the [TS]

  prospect of a job where you're running web object code as the as the primary [TS]

  role of your job not only those people harder to find but you know if you wanna [TS]

  find somebody who has experienced that before but also your probably like if [TS]

  that's your job that's not very interesting or cool to most people and [TS]

  that's going to be it makes it especially hard probably hire young [TS]

  people and and so if they want to hire more people more easily have them be [TS]

  higher quality coders hire you know who want to stay there longer and who are [TS]

  who are going to choose that over some other job at Google or Facebook or [TS]

  whatever [TS]

  having it be in a modern cool language that everybody wants to write code in [TS]

  instead of an old language has a pretty bad reputation that is that is not [TS]

  really useful anywhere else that is hard to get experience and and it's probably [TS]

  not the best language to work in these days and you when you are accustomed to [TS]

  more modern things I think [TS]

  having slipped on the back end and having this be available that it could [TS]

  that that would be enough reason right there just for Apple's own recruitment [TS]

  and retain the efforts that would be enough reason to do this what else [TS]

  school these days are final sponsor this week is a clue a clue is an internet you [TS]

  will actually like so with a glue you can share news you can organize your [TS]

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  a wood base drag-and-drop interface now their latest upgrade citing documents [TS]

  and how you interact with them gather feedback and make changes so they have a [TS]

  couple of cool features here first of all they can you can have basically read [TS]

  receipts for documents you can track who has a red critical documents critical [TS]

  information to keep everybody on the same page you can do this for example to [TS]

  track whether employees have read and acknowledge new policies signed off on [TS]

  legal agreements confirmed completion of training materials all sorts of possible [TS]

  professional and regulatory uses here and all this is built on their advanced [TS]

  html5 platform and is really events to fully responsive first of all so you [TS]

  know it worked great on every device computers iPhones Android phones even [TS]

  blackberries and then what is the coolest part of this is all that they [TS]

  have others liked document previewing and documentation there's no flash any [TS]

  that it's all this document parsing could always documentation code that's [TS]

  all in html5 so you can do and haitians you can do you can view the spreadsheet [TS]

  so that you can do all that just on your phone if you want to or just on your [TS]

  computer that have Flash installed which is double so he and the new devices come [TS]

  out new screen size come out it just works on there it is so great so advance [TS]

  so that your company has a legacy Internet [TS]

  they look like it was built in the nineties like most corporate intranets [TS]

  do you should definitely give it a try now it's even better is that if you have [TS]

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  then you get larger than that it's very reasonably priced so check it out today [TS]

  sign up for a free trial of a trade for you igloo software dot com slash ATP [TS]

  once again [TS]

  igloo software dot com slash ATP thanks a lot to Italy for sponsoring our show [TS]

  once again she gonna hear you have thoughts about protocol extensions [TS]

  extensions are great but the protocol oriented programming talk like there's [TS]

  always a couple of weird talks W ABC it like that are structured as narratives [TS]

  are they have a framing device sir you know there is one of them is like a sink [TS]

  single present their framing device was like a hypothetical discussion between [TS]

  an old cranky programmer any young one and used to demonstrate something in the [TS]

  reason I find these interesting I was joking about jumping up finding [TS]

  interesting because these are these talks W davis specifically these talks [TS]

  about like I'm going to tell you the way the way that we think you should use our [TS]

  language to make your programs better are aimed at an audience that's not me [TS]

  it's aimed at people who I was and Mac apps it seemed like a long time [TS]

  Objective C developers is aimed at people whose programming culture is very [TS]

  very different than mine and so sometimes that means the message goes [TS]

  past me and sometimes it means that like [TS]

  they're trying to the context is practices that I don't have never had [TS]

  and they're trying to persuade me as hard as they can to not do this thing [TS]

  that I think it's crazy would never do anyway or vice versa tell me to do [TS]

  something that seems a lien to me and then try to convince me that it's good [TS]

  and so protocol extensions was trying to show all the sort of traps that you can [TS]

  run into an unexpected way but like you're used to doing this in Objective C [TS]

  and used these problems are why Objective C is the way it is like why [TS]

  did the delegate parents all over Objective C well because inherited these [TS]

  problems and so on and so forth and a lot of the stuff this is the one that [TS]

  gets a lot of the stuff both have you do a swift abject CN everything WABC [TS]

  focuses heavily on types interviews a language that does not have as dynamic [TS]

  typing for you don't worry about types you don't worry about matching types of [TS]

  you know that's not even a thing a lot of the stuff that is super important to [TS]

  be able to deal with languages with types is irrelevant like it's one of [TS]

  things people talk about the Gang of Four patterns book there was an article [TS]

  about it years ago when their parents were first came out someone had the [TS]

  epiphany the parents but you know what a lot of this crap is totally irrelevant [TS]

  to me because I don't use C++ or Java Rio strongly typed language a lot of [TS]

  these patterns exist so that you can make your program flexible its way but [TS]

  maintains that type safety everywhere and you hope your language of them has [TS]

  that type that you like better makes no sense you know how to do that parents do [TS]

  this and I have to worry works all the time and I need some versions of [TS]

  concrete and abstract implantation I don't I don't need protocol extensions [TS]

  of the type smack of all the all the problems they described in the protocol [TS]

  extensions thing a lot of those just don't exist in languages like Java [TS]

  Script you don't have to worry about right maybe it'll be a problem or [TS]

  whatever so that's one aspect there in the second one is I am heartened to see [TS]

  ideas from the crazy highfalutin mumbo-jumbo languages that I use and [TS]

  even from things from Pearl sex and stuff [TS]

  filtering down to the troglodytes who use these languages the pointers and [TS]

  stuff for you have you know [TS]

  edged I was myself by skipping over anyway the lower level languages and I [TS]

  think the idea that was sort of from my perspective the idea that was buried in [TS]

  the program and the profane language thing was the idea of traits which i [TS]

  think we're from small talk [TS]

  roles and perot pollens another a better managed alternative to sharing code [TS]

  sharing interfacing code without screwing with your inheritance hierarchy [TS]

  without forcing data to be shared without doing all those so it was a talk [TS]

  that just seemed very alien to me but everyone who saw who was in the correct [TS]

  audience you know who was this talk was meant for them seem to like it and it [TS]

  seemed to open their eyes to the possibility of how they can program [TS]

  differently and swift and how swift attempts to solve problems the same [TS]

  problems that objective see-saw but sort of skirting them Swift has a different [TS]

  way to you to take sampras I hope people watch that session and come away with [TS]

  new ideas about how they can structure their programs to satisfy all their [TS]

  their their languages that type constraints and new ways to share [TS]

  functionality and interfaces without inheritance and without a million [TS]

  delegates everywhere now this is one of those talks that I wasn't as well and i [TS]

  enjoyed it a lot of the framing whatever was a little bit weird crusty the old [TS]

  programmer I think was the was the character they used anyway the tacos are [TS]

  good but it's one of those that I feel like I need to go back and watch it [TS]

  again because it didn't entirely sink in and I think that's partially because I i [TS]

  to and not necessarily the right audience because I don't live in breathe [TS]

  objective see every day but there are a lot of things and I've said this about a [TS]

  swift in the past there's a lot of things that they talked about but that [TS]

  wreaked of C sharp style implementations of the same idea like [TS]

  extensions smelled a lot like extension methods to me and I'm sure they're [TS]

  different in nuance ways that are not considering as on talking but but they [TS]

  they seem very similar and so I think that I I'd like to rewatch this and [TS]

  perhaps [TS]

  apps consider what what what patterns I can applied even my see short code that [TS]

  that maybe I can I can be inspired by from the stalk but it was very [TS]

  interesting and and like I said earlier just about anyone who's seen it has said [TS]

  well that was really cool and then you should definitely see it and I i concur [TS]

  Marco any thoughts you're you're probably the target audience when anyone [TS]

  did you see this one I didn't do my homework of course like it to be fair I [TS]

  didn't do it since I got home I just happened to be in that talk when we were [TS]

  there now i I have also heard from anybody that I have to see this talk and [TS]

  so it is on my list of stocks to watch but I have not watched [TS]

  extensions are separate from this pro car into the protocol extensions are are [TS]

  mostly extensions are like categories such as always had extensions protocol [TS]

  extensions allows you to extend protocols which previously you couldn't [TS]

  do it you look at this with standard library and see all the different things [TS]

  they had to do to make things that are like well this is a credible and [TS]

  sortable list inherits from that and this conforms to this like to try to [TS]

  make just a basic types of like you know raising dictionaries and in certain [TS]

  things that they want to work with other map and sort things again [TS]

  problems don't exist if you don't have types like well how can we have this [TS]

  still works in generic form of that and that is trying to get away from all the [TS]

  angle bracket teed generic thing that was making swift look all super ugly oh [TS]

  good I hate those yeah well that and like the standard library so that's [TS]

  that's probably the biggest source of Cisco Cisco in the world at this point [TS]

  as far as we know is this with standard library so it's all that stuff all the [TS]

  hatches and dictionaries and install that's all written in swift that's their [TS]

  standard library right and having map and filter and all those things work on [TS]

  all different types and also on your extensions of those types and your sub [TS]

  categories of times and also instructional method [TS]

  it's really complicated and in writing this with standard library they ran into [TS]

  all of the unassuming they ran to all the part of the ways to the language is [TS]

  making things annoying I mean anyone who's done any sort of large during the [TS]

  program has inevitably found themselves in a situation where either you start [TS]

  wishing for multiple inheritance or the flip side you start using it and in both [TS]

  cases you have regrets but I need to be that needs to be that and really there's [TS]

  no way to arrange a hierarchy of this or that you have to have these multiple [TS]

  inheritance I want dismayed to override that over there but this needs to come [TS]

  from over here like you make a mess you know you don't foresee anything yet [TS]

  making a mess that's that's an auntie pattern that anyone in the auditory [TS]

  delivered experience I feel like Apple must have experience that during [TS]

  standard libraries like well we need everything to be sortable inequitable [TS]

  and and we need them to to be able to be met from one thing to the other but you [TS]

  know we want all the types to match up we want people to be able to extend to [TS]

  pretend to have their extended version is also work with all the built-in [TS]

  things and you end up it's really complicated problem and protocol [TS]

  extensions give them one more victory for sharing like they define these [TS]

  protocols that don't affect the inheritance hierarchy and then you can [TS]

  extend the protocol that everything that conforms to the Pro Bowl get your [TS]

  extension is different in each category will I go now all instances in a string [TS]

  of this method you have like all instances of things that are equitable [TS]

  had this new extension right and that's that is a powerful feature that I think [TS]

  a lot of people wanted with a sauce with mine and I think the people probably one [TS]

  of the most people writing this with standard library and I think the spot me [TS]

  20 then the protocol oriented programming is like a particles period [TS]

  like you can share code by instead of just making a series of some classes and [TS]

  making a big inherent hard you can have this this unit of Cody can have liked it [TS]

  you know Java interface that has no code and that's powerful and then you can you [TS]

  can share those implementation is an override them among any classes like [TS]

  you're not it's not part of the inheritance hierarchy everything you can [TS]

  make all your different things [TS]

  conform to this protocol and then when somebody sends the protocol Dave [TS]

  enhanced all the things that I keep trying to use propolis the problems [TS]

  they're their roles and classes consume them which sounds weird and gross but [TS]

  it's nice to have a distinctive word for it though everybody who consume this [TS]

  role I guess the advanced there there are no role extensions and pearl and I [TS]

  was like oh why don't we have real extensions when I thought about it and I [TS]

  think it's probably because we don't need them because they were just [TS]

  you know where the hell you want we stick to his class we won with screw the [TS]

  inheritance hard target run time it's the Wild West but anyway it's an awesome [TS]

  yeah it is it is it is pretty awesome it's better than Ruby Ruby the nixons [TS]

  which is just like you know what [TS]

  here's some methods band there in your class groups that I over ate something [TS]

  sorry about that [TS]

  roles at least when you when your class consumes them it will tell you if you [TS]

  know a class class composition time it consumes the roles and it will tell you [TS]

  you can consume those roles they conflicting this this and this right and [TS]

  rolls can also read make requirements of the classes that consume them you can [TS]

  consume me but you need to implement method XY and Z otherwise you know and [TS]

  that having that happen in class composition time is way better than the [TS]

  review thing we just keep loading review modules until like the integer class I [TS]

  seventy people fighting over the method it's called like whatever inverter first [TS]

  or like happy birthday or whatever the people of seven it you know and it does [TS]

  sound overwrite each other and it's a more formalized system of nine and heard [TS]

  in space [TS]

  interfacing co-chair anyway cool stuff with two looks really good thing I'm [TS]

  honestly very loud I haven't slept yet because they keep adding these they keep [TS]

  changing things and they keep adding really cool things and honestly like it [TS]

  if you have a large body of swift code that to me seems more like a liability [TS]

  at this point even though they have you know they have a some of the translation [TS]

  tools and everything but like I I would rather come to Swift with a totally [TS]

  clean mind and no existing code once it has stabilized a little bit more [TS]

  your mind is entirely clear about that PHP in there but I don't have any [TS]

  existing knowledge of Swift really the tourney this of any use I don't have any [TS]

  like bill to any like swift assumptions or swift design habit I've already [TS]

  started getting into like so when I do start using swift it'll be from a clean [TS]

  slate as if that was version 1.0 the language well it's nice to I think the [TS]

  people who have used with one and run into all these problems AV appreciate [TS]

  this post features marble I gaga [TS]

  finding that for you know a long time and smoke one it's great to see them to [TS]

  do and be I think it will help you understand the features of language if [TS]

  you haven't fought with all the foibles of Swift won they may not be clear why [TS]

  certain features in swift to exist so I I think experiences is still useful but [TS]

  like what I want to get to the point you brought up of like this what is the [TS]

  strategy they said this from the very beginning of some business right you [TS]

  Swift is there gonna make swift and we're going to change the language in [TS]

  ways that are just entirely incompatible with this with Cody right now [TS]

  furthermore that's what Cody wrote last year that's not evening to compile any [TS]

  more like not only is you know as I okay well my app is written so far no its not [TS]

  if you want to ship your a pic an appearance with one case with one will [TS]

  not build in the new version of Mexico their entire strategy at this point [TS]

  anyway is we will take your shift one coat encumbered with two and that's [TS]

  that's they've been saying that the start they don't guarantee source [TS]

  compatibility which means they're compiler 121 don't care about you so you [TS]

  have to convert dismissed to which is very aggressive and like you know all [TS]

  the work they did with a compiler infrastructure and Xcode and the [TS]

  integration between them and the static analyzer allows them to have a [TS]

  conversion thing that does this in a sensible way and does most of the work [TS]

  of people still kind of annoying but I'm not entirely sure this is a long-term [TS]

  strategy ok so swift 250 252 253 at a certain point sweet sixteens 217 are you [TS]

  really going to invalidate what hope what Apple would hope is the millions of [TS]

  lines a sweet 16 code that are out there any changes with 17 notes that end at [TS]

  some point so I don't know what point that is but for now the policy is not [TS]

  only embargo by to have been wasting your time writing in a language in their [TS]

  teams that are going to change in the next episode comes out but you also have [TS]

  the task of converting all of your cellphone ko dismissed to like it's not [TS]

  even an option to keep the soft one cobra [TS]

  and I think that will continue until the language reaches the point where Apple's [TS]

  like alright this is settling down now will start to I hope the legendary like [TS]

  everyday language where we don't need validate your objective seek open [TS]

  Objective C 2.0 comes out when I started reading it vigorously we try to [TS]

  encourage you to 2.0 the 64 bit run down to is 2.0 only blah blah blah blah but [TS]

  your old code will keep building for a long time we did they didn't force you [TS]

  to constantly Converter convert all your code and i cant tobacco about us like a [TS]

  change some of the key words like do became repeat like this change anything [TS]

  they want and now do you mean something else [TS]

  yeah now it now basically means try this try inside the do there's the there's a [TS]

  Yoda joke in there somewhere but I cannot get out that's a reference to [TS]

  something that starts record yes that's right [TS]

  dictionaries this is this is a thing to watch for when people think swiftest [TS]

  only sell them when they stop doing the things that they always said they were [TS]

  going to do they just never said how long they going to do it just seems like [TS]

  something that is not sustainable long term but certainly for stuff 12 in next [TS]

  year's with three maybe four maybe five maybe five it sells them so that some of [TS]

  the human eye on but anyway I love seeing this this aggressive strategy [TS]

  like not doing the old Microsoft thing about well you can't break people down [TS]

  and you can view their source code to compile records I can I get always did [TS]

  like no we're racing for assessing can you better come along for the ride but [TS]

  and that's great I mean like there are so many languages that get you know kind [TS]

  of unfortunate crushed almost immediately after their lunch because [TS]

  they don't do that and because they have no developers instantly who really well [TS]

  you know we're not gonna we're not going to tolerate you breaking the code for [TS]

  this two month old language last last month and apples willing to say yes [TS]

  we'll break it and we'll we'll try to make it easy on you by having his [TS]

  translation tools but that's it [TS]

  that it's going to end up being a really good language all likelihood I i think [TS]

  even even the stuff to changes in the changes they made since last year since [TS]

  one point out they did a number of a bit over the winter in the spring and and [TS]

  they they change some pretty big things [TS]

  and now we know with with the officially officially named swift to which seems [TS]

  kinda more like 1.5 whatever you know that they've made some really big [TS]

  improvements since 10 last year and yeah you're right it's going to slow down [TS]

  that's fine and I'm totally fine to jump on when it slows down and a lot of [TS]

  people are some of the chapters and it hurt a lot of people they don't you want [TS]

  to be part of this process [TS]

  help direct the language with your input and and get used to it now and become an [TS]

  expert on it now and the answer to all those is no I don't like I feel he did [TS]

  you know first of all I think there is there like this this division of [TS]

  programmers like there's people who are really into the tools for their own sake [TS]

  and the science of the tools and and the design of languages the design of tools [TS]

  like the the the Art behind the language design and other people who who don't [TS]

  really care that just want to use it and they get satisfaction out of the things [TS]

  they built with it rather than this sort of the way to build them I'm the letter [TS]

  I do not care about languages really much at all [TS]

  that's why I try to learn as a few languages as possible and and choose [TS]

  truly deeply master them rather than exploring tons of languages come to come [TS]

  out and being Shelly familiar with lots of them and and in some ways that does [TS]

  hurt me I think overall I think I'm making the right decision for what I'm [TS]

  trying to accomplish which is one person trying to write like complete absence [TS]

  and try to maintain complete absence the two non trivial things I I think my way [TS]

  is is better for that approach but there are so many people who care so much [TS]

  about the language and how it's designed and what it can do and how it does it [TS]

  that they are willing to jump on early and they're willing to tolerate all the [TS]

  bums and the source code crashes and the changes in the new in the syntax and [TS]

  change in the idiom things they're willing to do that that's great we need [TS]

  them to exist but only to be one of them and I'm fine with that and I i [TS]

  appreciate what they do [TS]

  and they probably think I'm India but that's fine yeah I agree I don't care [TS]

  about being a trailblazer anymore and you've talked about this a lot Marco [TS]

  just now on built-in analyzed [TS]

  being a trailblazer when it's something that is important when money is riding [TS]

  on it that's just not my cup of tea I'd rather use the golden boring technology [TS]

  not as old and boring as PHP or Perl but older technology that is well proven and [TS]

  actually works well and in occasionally I'll feel like something that's wanted [TS]

  on the side like my website for example node is reasonably stable as JavaScript [TS]

  frameworks that change every 10 seconds go as long as you in just a small you [TS]

  don't need to have a lot of memory but no problem but that's not something that [TS]

  I'm really making any money off of it was silly little but right now I don't [TS]

  think I would be as keen on using node if this was the sort of thing where [TS]

  where money is is relying Roman is riding on what I'm doing so I'm with you [TS]

  I don't I don't get the architecture astronaut like you know total no just I [TS]

  don't get off on that like I used to when I was a kid is not my thing anymore [TS]

  pearl is far from barbara casey was not boring I would say the same thing for [TS]

  PHP PHP is far from boring as perhaps the most exciting language ever made [TS]

  because terrifying every 6 share on but you only need the edge I think that [TS]

  wraps it up for this week thanks to our there is violence this week [TS]

  automatic Squarespace and a clue and we will see you next week [TS]

  now the show they didn't even mean to begin accidental accidental [TS]

  and if he was a remarkable [TS]

  language walk as the freezer looking for an architecture yeah I couldn't think it [TS]

  was thank you I will take you there are working on Java and PHP PHP ID so badly [TS]

  infected by Java people just peanut butter I am a language I like this [TS]

  language stuff anyone who knows about the existence of and loves pearl sex [TS]

  definitely language I mean I don't have a problem with language 13 if such a [TS]

  thing is how you describe it like I enjoy learning about swift but goodness [TS]

  what I would I never consider that using that at least right now I think he got [TS]

  hit the nail on the head that the right time you Swift is when the velocity of [TS]

  Swift kind of calmed down a little bit maybe doesn't you know stop moving [TS]

  forward or anything but it just comes down now is not that time [TS]

  well now might be that time honestly evidence close to that time like this [TS]

  next year like it so that we didn't talk about their anybody got all air handling [TS]

  stuff was there is a bunch of things were obviously missing one and one of [TS]

  them was had to deal with errors caused the in our brands and error and all that [TS]

  crap us like it did look it was it look like a and was a thing that existed and [TS]

  fit in with the Objective C language and at getting all that stuff it wasn't a [TS]

  good fit so now you've got the whole don't really call it accepted it is not [TS]

  really an exception but kind of exception handling and Smith to that [TS]

  filled the big gap obviously still on regular expressions maybe just cause of [TS]

  course County process gramercy you be done to save some for next year but yeah [TS]

  like that and now people looking at stuff too it's alright what's left [TS]

  beside his mansion now the picture is becoming clear and in the final thing [TS]

  that the thing is alright who's going to be the first to write a swift only [TS]

  framework or like to use West in in earnest so that like all the API's [TS]

  you're calling from Smith are you know you I could get things that were written [TS]

  originally Objective C and they tried so hard to make it [TS]

  so that you can do things in a swift away not knowing that there is you know [TS]

  that our parameters going in there like that's a lots of magic having to do with [TS]

  bridging those two worlds eventually decide what does if you to read a [TS]

  framework now starting her sketches with what would that look like right we don't [TS]

  know the answer to that but that's like the final piece of the puzzle after that [TS]

  is just just a matter of time so too swift 2.5 the dawning of Swift three I [TS]

  think that is probably the sweet spot for maybe not for Marco but I think for [TS]

  most people doing you know you're not a one-person shop and you have to like [TS]

  make decisions based on what you don't have people like this guy can go often [TS]

  he'll just let us with this year and will teach you the rest of us doesn't [TS]

  have that option but that's a reasonable time frame if you want to be on the [TS]

  cutting edge or younger are you coming in like say you're gonna write your very [TS]

  first application and you're just that a school that's the perfect time to learn [TS]

  so you don't know Objective C there's no point in becoming Objective C expert [TS]

  right now but you might have read so Marcos decisions as always are not [TS]

  necessarily applicable to everyone listening I know that's like and [TS]

  somebody asked me on Twitter I think two to three years ago [TS]

  like you know I'm just starting out should I learned should I start with [TS]

  swift and I said yeah probably because I think if you're starting from scratch [TS]

  right now [TS]

  a year ago I I had a much more complicated well depends maybe this year [TS]

  I'm saying almost certainly yes he's just like it you're starting from [TS]

  scratch now start there but you know but if you if you already are addictive see [TS]

  expert and you're trying to get a lot of work done quickly it's hard to justify [TS]

  making the transition right now as opposed to you know any year to think [TS]

  back to your go experience like you had the same thing like well is it worth new [TS]

  language what are the benefits and yet to speculate what is going to be the [TS]

  the risk-reward like what what is expected benefit of me spending the time [TS]

  to use GoDaddy really make that much difference anyways the budget I'm [TS]

  fighting with language and I know that will end up with a bunch of bugs and I [TS]

  think the go experiment worked out pretty well for you but we're going into [TS]

  don't know for sure I think the uncertainty about swift when it first [TS]

  came out was seriously a positive thing a really good thing they didn't really [TS]

  believe a few people who don't have a lot of experience with Apple like know [TS]

  their deadly see if it could still be a disaster like is still room for disaster [TS]

  but so far signs are good that is not going to be entirely disaster and apples [TS]

  is very dedicated to talk about this show but we did the pre ww2 hey do you [TS]

  think we're gonna see swift all the slides our objectives in swift and I [TS]

  think I said I thought it would be a mix I think this is watc Apple tried very [TS]

  hard to make all their example you so if they they failed there were plenty of [TS]

  sessions with Objective C in some or all the examples [TS]

  some of them were exclusively objective state but you could see the effort was [TS]

  like wow I'm surprised at the amount of Swiss time seeing and I'm shocked at how [TS]

  little objectives again Apple can do that you know top-down command control [TS]

  their conference but they're clearly signaled their intent to West is the [TS]

  future you know unless something super terrible happens in all the sessions I [TS]

  went to I only noticed one and I don't recall which one it was that actually an [TS]

  Objective C in it and everything else either had both or in more cases than [TS]

  not only had swift which was totally surprised me that it was that quick but [TS]

  you're right john that they're pushing it and they're pushing hard it is now [TS]

  lol WC PDF censorship square brackets [TS]

  find out how many sessions actually had one of the ones at all or what's new in [TS]

  sprite kidder something some one of the sessions I went to seem to not have any [TS]

  Swiss I'm just square brackets corrective like going back in time you [TS]

  realize how how many positions are just like they don't even mention it is like [TS]

  and share this code is this news that it's amazing that done it made a new [TS]

  language suited for a new API with totally new idioms but still able to [TS]

  call into all the old stuff with you know with all these conventions in all [TS]

  this crazy market they're doing to dig the old adage derek's to Objective C C [TS]

  get uptight collection is mostly the benefits with so they could tell that [TS]

  year and as far as Slovenia strings and I don't have to like make it followed [TS]

  any object in this world right but hey even if you just an Objective C Marco [TS]

  you can use the new generics thing if you feel like it can make you feel [TS]

  better about knowing that you have a modernist objects inside array instead [TS]

  of god knows what ya know that when when i when i saw that I was very happy with [TS]

  that i mean again like I'm gonna start writing zip code in the next year to [TS]

  like with majority of my effort but you know until then [TS]

  and while I still have this fairly large agency code base that's very good to [TS]

  have you know I can edit it became pretty clear that like almost every year [TS]

  before that they were adding interesting features to Objective C and then when it [TS]

  came out last year and they added busily nothing to do just to see the writing [TS]

  seemed like it was on the wall that well I guess that's the end of the line with [TS]

  his progress and you know obviously I think we're we are close to the end of [TS]

  his language is progress but I think this is a nice little [TS]

  ok well even though it was in the service of making swift interact better [TS]

  with this language this language still is improving and that is nice the things [TS]

  they added to get to see before you know it exists existed almost all were also [TS]

  in hindsight we now realize why does arc exist you know that's the way memory [TS]

  manager is done in swift instead of garbage collection like they like test [TS]

  beds for things that would be necessary in this with her even just like you want [TS]

  to go just talked about how do we converse with 10 dismissed to coach [TS]

  static analyzer LDM I think about all those things like this is great they [TS]

  really enhancing Objective C you know you can draw a line through all those [TS]

  changes and say this was all the heat makes possible and if you look at the [TS]

  time line [TS]

  you know some of it may have been happy accidents but numbers clearly [TS]

  intentionally like I'm doing this left but it's going to be revealed to the [TS]

  world as an Objective C / compiler feature so that's well keep in mind also [TS]

  that Apple still has the vast majority of their couldn't get to see it was not [TS]

  even like I i mean we're even hearing like not that long ago that their build [TS]

  system couldn't even include swiftly their standard build procedure couldn't [TS]

  even do swift yet as a fairly recently it probably can now I assume but the [TS]

  fact is like Apple has probably the largest collection of Seco the world and [TS]

  they anything the benefit to see benefits apple and you know this so they [TS]

  you know all these features [TS]

  justify that like anything that helps advocacy coding get more efficient and [TS]

  have fewer bugs they could have been doing for that and you know I think it [TS]

  is not say you sell the features like I have a skunk works project at seven [TS]

  people know about a new language I here's what the new language need this [TS]

  cycle well ok how do you sell that well even in my new language ends up bus [TS]

  these are all great things are vigorously so we just do them anyway [TS]

  it's like I keep going keep going just how you strategically picked the things [TS]

  you're going to enhance objective they all seem to end their garbage collection [TS]

  which by the way is finally deprecated [TS]

  it wasn't already not not deprecated removed as in your you can't deny that [TS]

  the runtime doesn't support it anymore I'm pretty sure either won't run or you [TS]

  can't build a new one or both of us at the end of the supported life of garbage [TS]

  collection has now arisen deprecated for years [TS]

  right now we're also gonna programming more of it that's that's going on I'm [TS]

  just saying that though does that was this episode ever on some while we do [TS]

  this and we always get angry and people people who have to endure it I guess [TS]

  what WABC is a conference for developers and we are old albert is even if not all [TS]

  for the same platform and so it's impossible to soak in a week's worth of [TS]

  sessions about programming and not talk about programming so we did [TS]