The Talk Show

00:00:00 ◼   ► this better be worth it. Sure enough. It was really cool. It

00:00:04 ◼   ► was super well done. The live stream went off without a hitch.

00:00:07 ◼   ► There was no weird quality issues or any major frame skips.

00:00:11 ◼   ► And it really did feel like you were in the audience, which was

00:00:14 ◼   ► pretty awesome.

00:00:15 ◼   ► The funniest thing was that Adam was just off stage. All he had to

00:00:21 ◼   ► do is turn his head and he could have watched the whole show from

00:00:24 ◼   ► right where he was behind the curtain and he watched the whole

00:00:26 ◼   ► thing in the vision.

00:00:27 ◼   ► In the vision pro?

00:00:28 ◼   ► Because he was like, I just wanted to see that it worked.

00:00:32 ◼   ► And then he was like, well, and then I got into it. And I was

00:00:35 ◼   ► like, well, I'll just keep watching. So he was literally

00:00:38 ◼   ► right off the stage, watching Envision Pro. So I, I have to

00:00:42 ◼   ► say I'm pretty I mean, again, I cannot take credit for any of

00:00:45 ◼   ► the technology. It was all Adam and Spatial Gen and his

00:00:48 ◼   ► colleagues at sandwich. And all I did was say, Okay, let's try

00:00:52 ◼   ► it. You know, all I did was grant permission. So I don't

00:00:54 ◼   ► want credit for it. But I have to say it is a minor thrill that

00:00:59 ◼   ► my show to my knowledge is the first live thing ever broadcast

00:01:05 ◼   ► for vision Pro.

00:01:06 ◼   ► I think that's right. Yeah, that's cool.

00:01:09 ◼   ► And it's kind of weird. Oh, well, you'd think Apple would

00:01:12 ◼   ► do it first. But Apple doesn't really do anything live anymore.

00:01:16 ◼   ► Right? Their keynotes ever since COVID are all pre recorded. And

00:01:19 ◼   ► even like at WWDC each year, when they show it to 1000 or 2000

00:01:27 ◼   ► people on the lawn outside Apple Park and Tim and Craig

00:01:31 ◼   ► Federighi come out beforehand, they don't broadcast the little

00:01:34 ◼   ► three minute introduction. So I don't even know what Apple would

00:01:38 ◼   ► do live other than sports, of course, which sports fans are

00:01:42 ◼   ► all waiting for, but which is a whole nother huge, humongous

00:01:47 ◼   ► can of worms and certainly isn't going to be the first thing that

00:01:50 ◼   ► happens something like complexity. Right, something

00:01:55 ◼   ► like my show, here's a stage you can just point static, right at

00:01:59 ◼   ► it. And yeah, static subjects is kind of perfect for it, even if

00:02:03 ◼   ► not exciting. I thought it was great. It was really fun. So I

00:02:08 ◼   ► just want to say again, what a thrill. I'm glad it worked very

00:02:12 ◼   ► well by thanks to sandwich and everybody and it's I guess we'll

00:02:16 ◼   ► do it again next year. And the other thing I was braced for were

00:02:20 ◼   ► complaints from people who don't have vision Pro Well, how come

00:02:23 ◼   ► you don't just broadcast do the live thing flat too so I can

00:02:27 ◼   ► watch and nobody complained. Which again, I'm like, are they

00:02:33 ◼   ► in my spam? I'm like looking at my spam. It's like, nope,

00:02:36 ◼   ► everybody just took it in stride. And I was like, pretty

00:02:39 ◼   ► cool. Thank you for everybody for not complaining. I guess we

00:02:43 ◼   ► should start with Apple intelligence. I wrote about it

00:02:47 ◼   ► finally over the weekend or finally finished it up. You know,

00:02:50 ◼   ► some years WWDC has a Oh, that was the year blank. And now

00:02:56 ◼   ► we've got two years in a row last year was the vision Pro got

00:02:59 ◼   ► introduced this year obviously will be remembered as Oh, this

00:03:02 ◼   ► is the year that Apple intelligence was announced. It

00:03:06 ◼   ► does seem like a big deal. And I worry that I buried it by

00:03:09 ◼   ► putting it the conclusion of my article because I do think it's

00:03:13 ◼   ► like the single most important thing people can take away. But

00:03:16 ◼   ► and it felt like it belonged at the end. But I always worry about

00:03:19 ◼   ► putting things at the end. Maybe you feel the same way with

00:03:21 ◼   ► videos to where it's I worry about the people who don't get

00:03:23 ◼   ► to the end. I'd like to think that everybody who reads my

00:03:27 ◼   ► articles reads them to the end because they're so compelling.

00:03:30 ◼   ► But I know that people start reading and then they drift

00:03:32 ◼   ► away. But the main takeaway I want to emphasize is we don't

00:03:36 ◼   ► know if any of this stuff works. We don't know even if it does

00:03:40 ◼   ► work if it's going to scale to where Apple needs it to scale. I

00:03:44 ◼   ► don't know that even true experts in setting up data

00:03:47 ◼   ► centers ever really know if something's going to scale until

00:03:50 ◼   ► you flip the switch and go live. And it just seems like if it

00:03:55 ◼   ► wasn't this huge moment of pressure from users who seem to

00:04:01 ◼   ► want these features and Wall Street investors who definitely

00:04:04 ◼   ► seem to want Apple to to have something to say on generative

00:04:08 ◼   ► AI, I honestly think almost all of this would have come next

00:04:13 ◼   ► year, not this year. I feel like we're finally get here's what

00:04:16 ◼   ► Apple would do if they told us what they're doing a year in

00:04:18 ◼   ► advance.

00:04:19 ◼   ► I tend to agree if anything, because all the features that

00:04:22 ◼   ► are the most compelling features don't even have a date or or

00:04:27 ◼   ► have been suggested to come sometime next year into the

00:04:30 ◼   ► future. I think they did a pretty good job at explaining

00:04:34 ◼   ► what Apple intelligence is supposed to be and what it will

00:04:37 ◼   ► be. That's part of the problem, right? This is such a new thing

00:04:41 ◼   ► to so many people, that not only do they have to explain what it

00:04:45 ◼   ► is, and how it works, and why it's different from other

00:04:49 ◼   ► generative AI stuff that exists on the market today, but then

00:04:52 ◼   ► they have to lean into the okay, now that we have the foundations

00:04:55 ◼   ► of what it is, what does it actually do? And I felt a little

00:05:00 ◼   ► bit, I don't want to say disappointed. But that's where I

00:05:04 ◼   ► feel we didn't get a ton of information about what it will

00:05:08 ◼   ► do beyond the basic stuff that was expected, like summaries and

00:05:13 ◼   ► rewriting tools and generative images, which I didn't really

00:05:17 ◼   ► expect, but it's not a novel or new thing. That's where I think

00:05:21 ◼   ► it's, it's difficult and maybe weird is they came out guns

00:05:25 ◼   ► blazing with here's what it is. And here's how it works. But we

00:05:29 ◼   ► still are kind of waiting for the okay, but what, how will it

00:05:32 ◼   ► help me? What is it supposed to do into the future? We just have

00:05:36 ◼   ► the little kind of principal foundations that are good. But I

00:05:40 ◼   ► don't know that any of them are all that unique as compared to

00:05:43 ◼   ► what already exists today on the market.

00:05:45 ◼   ► And it's it was very telling to me not in a surprising way. But

00:05:51 ◼   ► in a Oh, this is very early days. And they are really giving

00:05:55 ◼   ► us a sneak peek behind the curtain that at Apple Park, for

00:06:01 ◼   ► those of us who got media invitations, they had briefings

00:06:04 ◼   ► after the keynote Monday afternoon. And then back on

00:06:07 ◼   ► Tuesday, I was back there all all morning Tuesday for demos of

00:06:12 ◼   ► Mac OS and iOS and iPad OS and stuff like that. And none of

00:06:18 ◼   ► those demos, not only are those features not in the developer

00:06:21 ◼   ► beta that shipped last week, and not coming, I don't know, maybe

00:06:25 ◼   ► even while we're recording this podcast today, supposedly, today

00:06:29 ◼   ► is the day second developer betas are dropping. But the

00:06:32 ◼   ► Apple intelligence features aren't coming yet. But they,

00:06:35 ◼   ► they didn't even let us play with it hands on, which is pretty

00:06:39 ◼   ► unusual for Apple. But again, in this case, it's not surprising.

00:06:43 ◼   ► So I got to see Apple representative in a briefing,

00:06:49 ◼   ► writing an email, just exactly like the keynote, here's an

00:06:52 ◼   ► email for a job, I'm applying for a job, and I've attached my

00:06:56 ◼   ► resume. And I've written the email, select the text of the

00:07:00 ◼   ► email and hit this little blue thing and say, make this sound

00:07:03 ◼   ► more professional. And I got, we got to watch that happen. And I

00:07:07 ◼   ► asked, is this determinant? I know you're doing these demos

00:07:11 ◼   ► for these are small groups of media three or four at a time.

00:07:14 ◼   ► And then the same people every 40 minutes are doing it for

00:07:17 ◼   ► another group. I was like, do you get the same answer every

00:07:20 ◼   ► time? And they said no, we there are slight differences. And

00:07:24 ◼   ► because they've been rehearsing the demo and doing it for

00:07:26 ◼   ► groups, he even told me, here's, here's the sentence

00:07:30 ◼   ► where sometimes we get slightly different words when we say make

00:07:33 ◼   ► it more professional. That's how LLM's work, right? That's

00:07:36 ◼   ► the proof that it was a live demo of what they actually have

00:07:40 ◼   ► working behind the scenes. But it also also shows why they

00:07:43 ◼   ► didn't let us type our own email and, and say make this

00:07:48 ◼   ► funnier or make it whatever the options are for that. We didn't

00:07:53 ◼   ► get to make our own Genmoji. We didn't get to they didn't even

00:07:57 ◼   ► show the image playgrounds in action. So I mean, there's a lot

00:08:00 ◼   ► of stuff that they didn't even demo to us live. I mean, that's

00:08:04 ◼   ► how early it is. The Xcode stuff they definitely showed live. And

00:08:08 ◼   ► it seems again, I keep mentioning this on dithering to

00:08:13 ◼   ► it just is wild to me, but I get it. But it just seems crazy to

00:08:17 ◼   ► me that LLM's are particularly good at writing computer

00:08:21 ◼   ► programs. Whereas for humans, writing computer programs is

00:08:27 ◼   ► generally considered a much rarer skill and harder than

00:08:31 ◼   ► writing prose, right? It's just the nature of LLM's and the

00:08:35 ◼   ► nature of code that it works with the robotic brain for lack

00:08:39 ◼   ► of a better and they showed us that live demo of the code

00:08:43 ◼   ► completion and Xcode and the much more impressive Swift

00:08:47 ◼   ► assist where you can sort of just type a natural language

00:08:51 ◼   ► query, like I've got a collection of images, I'd like

00:08:55 ◼   ► to present them in a carousel that users can swipe

00:08:59 ◼   ► horizontally. Boom. And then here's some code that would say,

00:09:03 ◼   ► okay, given a collection of still images, here's how you

00:09:06 ◼   ► here's some code that would generate a Swift UI view of a

00:09:10 ◼   ► swipeable carousel of those images. Very, very impressive.

00:09:14 ◼   ► But again, they did not let us I don't know how much help it

00:09:17 ◼   ► would be letting the media write code, but we could write

00:09:21 ◼   ► natural language queries, though, right? I mean, if

00:09:24 ◼   ► anything, that would actually be a demo we could have done, but

00:09:27 ◼   ► very, very early days. And it's kind of exciting, right? To be

00:09:32 ◼   ► following Apple and to actually see them reveal something so

00:09:36 ◼   ► early.

00:09:36 ◼   ► Yeah, it's very atypical. On the one hand, I agree. It's it's

00:09:41 ◼   ► definitely for optics, they need to let investors know that it's

00:09:45 ◼   ► something that they've been working on and something that's

00:09:47 ◼   ► planned. I think their focus on running many of the models that

00:09:52 ◼   ► they have on device is proof, I guess that the NPUs and the

00:09:59 ◼   ► neural engine as it as Apple calls them as that they've been

00:10:02 ◼   ► putting in basically all of their a series chips for several

00:10:05 ◼   ► years now. And in the M series chips as well, that that there's

00:10:09 ◼   ► a point to that there's been a point in the past. I mean, NPS

00:10:13 ◼   ► have been doing all sorts of stuff on Apple Silicon for

00:10:16 ◼   ► years, but nothing so definitive as in, this is why these chips

00:10:20 ◼   ► keep getting larger and larger and more powerful, especially in

00:10:24 ◼   ► a market where you know, with something like the Snapdragon X

00:10:27 ◼   ► elite, the new, you know, alleged competitor to the M

00:10:30 ◼   ► series chips, they they keep talking ad nauseum about how

00:10:35 ◼   ► amazing their NPU is and why neural engines and application

00:10:38 ◼   ► specific silicon is going to be super important into the future.

00:10:41 ◼   ► And Apple's kind of just Yeah, we've been doing this for a

00:10:45 ◼   ► decade now. And this is the proof that it matters. And, and

00:10:48 ◼   ► being able to do a lot of the stuff that right now with other

00:10:53 ◼   ► AI models is done in the cloud on device is a really big deal

00:10:57 ◼   ► being able to write, rewrite or to proofread or to make your

00:11:01 ◼   ► email Sam more friendly when you're on an airplane with no

00:11:05 ◼   ► internet connection. It's it's going to be faster. It's going

00:11:09 ◼   ► to be there's no downsides really, it's pretty amazing.

00:11:12 ◼   ► Again, not surprising, it almost would have it would have been far

00:11:16 ◼   ► more surprising if it wasn't in a personal context, right?

00:11:21 ◼   ► Because it really does fit with Apple's long standing under Tim

00:11:27 ◼   ► Cook sort of doctrine, as Horace Dedue has put it that the Apple

00:11:32 ◼   ► seeks to own and control the core technologies, most

00:11:36 ◼   ► important to its products, blah, blah, blah. But there's also, I

00:11:41 ◼   ► don't know, a couple years ago, there was sort of a mantra, only

00:11:44 ◼   ► Apple things only Apple could do and that that semantic index of

00:11:50 ◼   ► your personal information put into a stored securely on

00:11:56 ◼   ► device, cryptographically, and the key demo of the whole keynote

00:12:01 ◼   ► was that when does my mom's flight arrive? Question, right?

00:12:06 ◼   ► And presuming that it worked that you'll be able to do

00:12:09 ◼   ► something like that, and that it'll work even close to as

00:12:13 ◼   ► well as Apple is suggesting it works, is, yes, that's what

00:12:18 ◼   ► we've been thinking in the back of our heads ever since the

00:12:22 ◼   ► first version of Siri, right, that you'd just be able to ask

00:12:26 ◼   ► a question like that and get it. But it, it really is the nature

00:12:31 ◼   ► of the question. You don't have to get into one of these

00:12:35 ◼   ► comparisons. I know with Anthropic, and they just

00:12:39 ◼   ► announced the Claude 3.5. So nada, whatever their new one is,

00:12:44 ◼   ► and they've got these benchmarks, and they show these

00:12:46 ◼   ► comparisons to chat GPT four o and perplexity and whatever else

00:12:51 ◼   ► the leading Gemini whatever the leading other ones are, and they

00:12:54 ◼   ► come up with scores like 64 to 65% on this issue or 83 versus

00:13:01 ◼   ► 79% on something else. Put aside where Apple's models compare in

00:13:08 ◼   ► a benchmark like that against these rivals, only apples is

00:13:12 ◼   ► going to be able to get the personal context of that right,

00:13:14 ◼   ► you could go we could go to the future and chat GPT five isn't

00:13:20 ◼   ► going to be able to answer the question when is my mom's flight

00:13:23 ◼   ► arriving because it doesn't even know who you are, let alone your

00:13:26 ◼   ► mom or have access to your email. So the focus on stuff that

00:13:31 ◼   ► only Apple can do that because it's stuff that's only on your

00:13:35 ◼   ► device and that you trust to be on your device is potentially I

00:13:42 ◼   ► know and it sounds like a bold adjective but radical, right?

00:13:45 ◼   ► This could change the way we use our devices.

00:13:48 ◼   ► And and that's what I think is so compelling about Apple

00:13:52 ◼   ► intelligence. Most of the stuff that they showed this year is

00:13:57 ◼   ► stuff that no doubt will be helpful. I think that rewriting

00:14:01 ◼   ► tools are going to be used by tons of people, I think image

00:14:04 ◼   ► generation for emojis and memes will definitely be a thing.

00:14:09 ◼   ► These are all things that are coming and they're cool. But I

00:14:13 ◼   ► don't know that we'll look back at tools like this in five years

00:14:16 ◼   ► and go remember when that changed the world. But I I do

00:14:20 ◼   ► think that reasoning as it's kind of referred to in in ml and

00:14:25 ◼   ► AI nomenclature, which I don't really like because it's such a

00:14:28 ◼   ► wide encompassing term. So I invented one that's not really a

00:14:31 ◼   ► real thing. But like this idea of an intent engine, something

00:14:35 ◼   ► that understands the input that you as a user are asking it,

00:14:39 ◼   ► knows how to find the data related to that and then provide

00:14:43 ◼   ► a result that you expect. That's the promise that so many of

00:14:48 ◼   ► these kind of AI specific hardware devices have sold

00:14:52 ◼   ► themselves on. But nobody's come even close. I think like the

00:14:56 ◼   ► humane AI pin is a good example. I reviewed that thing. It's it's

00:15:00 ◼   ► not a great product. I didn't recommend anybody buy it. But

00:15:03 ◼   ► one of the things that did do that was quite cool is there was

00:15:09 ◼   ► one time where I was standing in front of a bus stop. And I said,

00:15:13 ◼   ► When is the next bus supposed to arrive? It took a picture of the

00:15:17 ◼   ► sign. And I guess via searching the web told me that the next

00:15:22 ◼   ► bus was supposed to arrive in eight minutes. And it was off by

00:15:25 ◼   ► a little bit, but that could have been the buses for all I

00:15:27 ◼   ► know. And then I at the same time after said, Let my wife

00:15:32 ◼   ► know when I will be arriving home. And it used its reasoning

00:15:37 ◼   ► to find when the bus would get to my house. I don't know if

00:15:40 ◼   ► that was done via traffic data or whatever. But it was really

00:15:44 ◼   ► cool because I was able to just say a thing and in the

00:15:47 ◼   ► background, it was able to go okay, he needs to get from point

00:15:50 ◼   ► A to point B, he's standing in front of a bus stop. So he's

00:15:52 ◼   ► going to take the bus. Who is his wife? When he says let her

00:15:56 ◼   ► know that's probably a message. How should we do that? How do we

00:15:59 ◼   ► craft the message? And it was one of the few instances that I

00:16:02 ◼   ► use the AI pin where I was like, this actually could be a game

00:16:06 ◼   ► changer. And I think that is what the promise of Apple

00:16:10 ◼   ► intelligence is.

00:16:11 ◼   ► John Greenewald In your case, and that is a great demo. I

00:16:14 ◼   ► mean, just a great example. Did it have to intuit that you would

00:16:19 ◼   ► be riding the bus that you just asked about? Like you didn't

00:16:22 ◼   ► say, I'm going to get on the bus.

00:16:25 ◼   ► Yeah, I actually said and you have to use the look command.

00:16:28 ◼   ► But I said, look at where I am, and tell me when the next bus is

00:16:32 ◼   ► coming. So it took a picture of the scene. And I don't know what

00:16:36 ◼   ► kind of models that used and Apple is a little different

00:16:39 ◼   ► because they're doing most of this with their own stuff. If

00:16:43 ◼   ► you look at something like the human AI pin, they need to this

00:16:48 ◼   ► engine basically that understands intent. The only

00:16:51 ◼   ► thing they're doing is basically saying, okay, what does the user

00:16:54 ◼   ► want? Because we don't have the models, they don't have their

00:16:57 ◼   ► own on device models, they don't have image recognition. So they

00:17:01 ◼   ► just try to understand what the user wants. And then they go out

00:17:03 ◼   ► to Claude or to the perplexity or to chat GPT, or any one of

00:17:08 ◼   ► these AI services. It's called the AI bus. That's what humane

00:17:12 ◼   ► calls it. And it's actually a pretty good name. Because it

00:17:15 ◼   ► that is what it does. And basically, what's the what's the

00:17:18 ◼   ► input? And how do we get an output and make sure that that

00:17:21 ◼   ► output responds to the input from the user. And that's what I

00:17:25 ◼   ► think is so interesting about Apple intelligence. If that demo

00:17:29 ◼   ► that they gave in the keynote of Craig, where he said, Oh, I have

00:17:33 ◼   ► a meeting later, or excuse me, they want to change the time of

00:17:36 ◼   ► a meeting. Can we change the time and but I know my daughter

00:17:40 ◼   ► has a concert. And I didn't put that in my calendar, but she did

00:17:42 ◼   ► send me a PDF that has details of the performance. That kind of

00:17:46 ◼   ► stuff is a game changer. If that works, where I think there's

00:17:51 ◼   ► caution that will need to be had is that my main frustration with

00:17:56 ◼   ► the AI pin and the rabbit and all of these devices when

00:17:59 ◼   ► compared to something like Siri, they're vastly more capable. But

00:18:03 ◼   ► I ran into more and more limitations, because there was

00:18:07 ◼   ► this expectation of Oh, well, you can do anything. And that's

00:18:10 ◼   ► where I think it will be interesting to see if Apple can

00:18:13 ◼   ► pull this off is right now there's a lot of things that

00:18:17 ◼   ► people know Siri can't do. Siri's been to put a charitably

00:18:21 ◼   ► not very good for a long time, has gotten better. But most

00:18:26 ◼   ► people have just they know what Siri does. They asked her to set

00:18:29 ◼   ► alarms and timers and home automation stuff, but they're

00:18:31 ◼   ► not going to ask questions because they know it can't

00:18:33 ◼   ► respond. When it starts to be able to do those things. That's

00:18:37 ◼   ► exciting. But the more and more capable it gets the higher the

00:18:42 ◼   ► expectation from the user that it completes the thing that the

00:18:45 ◼   ► user wants it to do. And if it gets to the point where it can't

00:18:48 ◼   ► do that, or it doesn't do reliably, or in the case of the

00:18:52 ◼   ► AI pin, it'll do some things, but then five minutes later, it

00:18:54 ◼   ► will go, Oh, I can't do that when when it actually can.

00:18:57 ◼   ► That's where I think there's a risk of frustrating the end user

00:19:02 ◼   ► because they're kind of over promising of a the world's your

00:19:06 ◼   ► oyster. But then you're dealing with the realities of reasoning

00:19:11 ◼   ► in AI models that are still relatively young and small and

00:19:14 ◼   ► inherently limited because this is early days of AI. I don't

00:19:18 ◼   ► know. I keep thinking about and I go back to just writing silly

00:19:27 ◼   ► programs and basic in the 80s in like grade school and it's you

00:19:32 ◼   ► think I'm gonna we're gonna make a computer program that's so

00:19:35 ◼   ► smart, it can answer questions. And as a little kid, you just

00:19:38 ◼   ► wind up with if this else, if this else if this else and you

00:19:44 ◼   ► start, you just quickly realize, oh, you really can't build up

00:19:48 ◼   ► enough if F's of else if else to cover everything, even for a

00:19:53 ◼   ► limited domain used you what seems like Oh, we'll just build

00:19:57 ◼   ► a bunch of those. No, that that's not how you build

00:19:59 ◼   ► something that can answer questions arbitrarily. It just

00:20:05 ◼   ► always springs to mind in these LLM's really sort of are the

00:20:08 ◼   ► first time we're seeing computers sort of encroach on

00:20:13 ◼   ► human intuition, right? And and it's so easy to overlook how

00:20:20 ◼   ► good human beings are, by nature at intuiting things like context,

00:20:28 ◼   ► right? If you're talking like how far away is this bus? If you

00:20:33 ◼   ► were just talking to a person who's standing right next to

00:20:36 ◼   ► you, who you think knows the bus schedule. And then they say, oh,

00:20:40 ◼   ► it's probably about eight minutes away. And then you said,

00:20:43 ◼   ► could you text my wife and tell her when I'll get home? The

00:20:46 ◼   ► person would know. Oh, because we're me and Quinn are getting

00:20:50 ◼   ► on the bus, right? And we're heading home. You don't have to

00:20:54 ◼   ► say, I'm going to get on this bus with you. This is why we're

00:20:58 ◼   ► waiting here at the bus stop.

00:21:00 ◼   ► Yeah, exactly. Yeah. And there's just a zillion of those little

00:21:07 ◼   ► fill in the gaps that humans do intuitively that computers

00:21:13 ◼   ► don't and, and now sort of with LLM's they kind of do except you

00:21:18 ◼   ► have to double check. And that's it. So it's the intuition of

00:21:23 ◼   ► filling in gaps that really is the step change.

00:21:26 ◼   ► It is. And that's the hardest part. I mean, to bring in

00:21:28 ◼   ► another example of something that's also kind of ml and AI

00:21:32 ◼   ► driven, self driving cars, right? This has been something

00:21:35 ◼   ► that's been right on the horizon for years and years and years

00:21:39 ◼   ► and years. And certain individuals have promised that

00:21:41 ◼   ► it's right around the corner for years and years and years. And

00:21:44 ◼   ► what we've discovered over time is that despite these systems

00:21:49 ◼   ► becoming vastly more capable, they're still quite bad at

00:21:54 ◼   ► driving. Because there are instances in which humans do

00:21:57 ◼   ► stuff intuitively, that goes against traditional convention,

00:22:01 ◼   ► they're able to perceive things that go against the traditional

00:22:05 ◼   ► rules of driving or the road or they're, they're aware of

00:22:08 ◼   ► weather conditions or someone that might be inebriated in

00:22:11 ◼   ► front of them. And there's so many factors of when we drive or

00:22:14 ◼   ► when the lane markings are disappeared, or it's a, it's a

00:22:17 ◼   ► weird intersection that has this strange construction layout. And

00:22:21 ◼   ► the first time you were kind of confused by it, but you've

00:22:23 ◼   ► you've driven through it once before. And so now you know,

00:22:25 ◼   ► that's the kind of stuff that these AI models have to deal

00:22:29 ◼   ► with. And the reality is that least with self driving, these

00:22:34 ◼   ► roads and this infrastructure has been built for humans. And

00:22:37 ◼   ► so once the kind of self driving problem is solved, it's gonna be

00:22:45 ◼   ► easy. I mean, that's, once all cars self drive, it's gonna be

00:22:50 ◼   ► simple. The issue right now is they're driving with people on

00:22:53 ◼   ► roads designed for people. And so the hardest it's ever going

00:22:57 ◼   ► to be to develop self driving software is right now. And I

00:23:00 ◼   ► think the same is true with AI and LLM's for stuff like this on

00:23:05 ◼   ► on device and on platform. Apple has the benefit of being the

00:23:10 ◼   ► owners and carers of the system. And so they have access to a

00:23:15 ◼   ► bunch of information that third party applications just don't.

00:23:18 ◼   ► It's a huge competitive advantage. The question is, like

00:23:22 ◼   ► self driving cars, are they going to understand the intent

00:23:26 ◼   ► and the reasoning that a person would want with vague input,

00:23:32 ◼   ► like, humans talk to other people? I mean, there are entire

00:23:36 ◼   ► pieces of software that these reasoning engines, their entire

00:23:40 ◼   ► AI companies that exist to basically rewrite your prompts,

00:23:44 ◼   ► so that you can get the output from chat GPT that you want,

00:23:48 ◼   ► right? And it's because humans are inherently not very good and

00:23:52 ◼   ► not very descriptive at this stuff. But that's where the AI

00:23:56 ◼   ► is going to have to come across the aisle to get to the hardest

00:23:59 ◼   ► part is going to be right now. And unfortunately, once the

00:24:03 ◼   ► infrastructure is built out for cars, and once every car is

00:24:06 ◼   ► self driving, well, then it's no problem. But until that happens,

00:24:09 ◼   ► it's incredibly difficult. And that's not going to happen until

00:24:12 ◼   ► AI itself has been able to overcome those things. So it's,

00:24:15 ◼   ► it's almost like a catch 22. But that's where the promise of this

00:24:19 ◼   ► is incredible. And I'm actually surprised that Apple showed us as

00:24:23 ◼   ► much of their hand as they did, like you mentioned, because this

00:24:26 ◼   ► is the kind of stuff that they don't traditionally talk about.

00:24:29 ◼   ► But at the same time, it's the kind of thing where I go, nobody

00:24:33 ◼   ► else has really been able to figure this out. And it's still

00:24:35 ◼   ► pie in the sky. This is full self driving kind of stuff. Yeah.

00:24:38 ◼   ► And will Apple be able to come out guns blazing in a year and

00:24:42 ◼   ► have solved the issue? I don't know.

00:24:45 ◼   ► Yeah, because it's like, we all know how it's supposed to work.

00:24:49 ◼   ► And that's the other thing too, like, what, when does when does

00:24:55 ◼   ► my mom's flight arrive? You know exactly what you mean. It's

00:24:59 ◼   ► your mom's next flight. And you know that you must be you must

00:25:03 ◼   ► trust that your your mom has either texted you or emailed you

00:25:07 ◼   ► with the flight plan so that it's there somehow you wouldn't

00:25:10 ◼   ► be asking your phone this question if you thought there's

00:25:15 ◼   ► no chance that the information's even on your phone.

00:25:17 ◼   ► Totally.

00:25:18 ◼   ► Given our experience with Siri over the last what, 14 years?

00:25:23 ◼   ► How shocked will we be if the answer is about a flight your mom

00:25:29 ◼   ► took six months ago? Right? It's, you know, we're going to be

00:25:35 ◼   ► disappointed. It's not going to get reviewed very well. But I

00:25:39 ◼   ► don't know that if that's what happens, or if that's how it

00:25:42 ◼   ► happens out of the gate. We're not going to be shocked. Get me

00:25:47 ◼   ► to the fainting couch. Siri just gave me my mom's flight

00:25:51 ◼   ► information from 2019. It was there in your email.

00:25:55 ◼   ► Yeah, or even harder. What if the flight is changed? Or there's

00:25:59 ◼   ► a cancellation and the flight number changes? That's a much

00:26:02 ◼   ► more real world example of it. Serious. Well, we just grabbed

00:26:06 ◼   ► the flight from a day ago. We didn't know there was another

00:26:09 ◼   ► one that appended this and it's, it's gonna be hard.

00:26:13 ◼   ► It really is. And it really speaks to, like I said, just how

00:26:20 ◼   ► intuitive actual human beings are. Like when you hire a actual

00:26:26 ◼   ► personal assistant who is a human being, you just make all

00:26:31 ◼   ► sorts of assumptions that they're going to get if you tell

00:26:36 ◼   ► your assistant to get you, can you get me three tickets to the

00:26:42 ◼   ► Phillies game Friday night? You kind of know that they're going

00:26:46 ◼   ► to ask you certain reasonable questions like, well, how much

00:26:50 ◼   ► are you looking to spend or double check with me before you

00:26:55 ◼   ► spend an exorbitant amount of money or get me a seat all the

00:26:59 ◼   ► way in the third deck way too far away to see anything I know

00:27:03 ◼   ► you don't or you might expect your if you're have a you know,

00:27:09 ◼   ► if you've been working with the same human assistant for a

00:27:11 ◼   ► while, they might know something like, Oh, I know john likes to

00:27:15 ◼   ► sit behind first base or home plate usually not third base.

00:27:19 ◼   ► They know stuff like that. Totally all of these things. You

00:27:23 ◼   ► just expect these computer assistants to pick up but will

00:27:26 ◼   ► they I don't know. And we're not going to be satisfied until they

00:27:30 ◼   ► do. Right.

00:27:31 ◼   ► And what level of information do they retain over time? That's

00:27:35 ◼   ► another thing too. I mean, right, you can tell someone,

00:27:37 ◼   ► hey, I think I'm going to the jazz game on Thursday. And then

00:27:41 ◼   ► two days later, you can come back and ask a person, hey, did

00:27:44 ◼   ► you get tickets to the to the game? Or an AI model might go,

00:27:48 ◼   ► Okay, tickets to game? What game? There's too many sporting

00:27:51 ◼   ► franchises here until they are. And maybe they meant on the TV.

00:27:55 ◼   ► Well, here's an Apple TV suggestion of where you can get

00:27:57 ◼   ► this. It just so wide. And I think in the beginning, it is

00:28:02 ◼   ► going to be limited, and that'll be okay. But they have to do the

00:28:06 ◼   ► things that users expect them to do however limited very well.

00:28:10 ◼   ► That's where I think it will become frustrating because with

00:28:15 ◼   ► and again, I'm coming back to the AI pen, it's gonna be way

00:28:17 ◼   ► better than the AI pen. But one of the things the AI pen would

00:28:21 ◼   ► do was when I asked it to do something that couldn't do I'd

00:28:23 ◼   ► be like, okay, like it was worth a shot. I wasn't that frustrated

00:28:27 ◼   ► because it was never really a promise. But there were things

00:28:30 ◼   ► that I knew the pin could do that it would have done

00:28:33 ◼   ► previously. And then two hours later, it was just like, Oh, I

00:28:36 ◼   ► can't do that. And I'm thinking to myself, yeah, you can you

00:28:39 ◼   ► just did it a couple hours ago, or you did this task that's so

00:28:43 ◼   ► hyper similar that why would you not be able to do task B, it's

00:28:47 ◼   ► almost the same thing. And that's where it gets frustrating

00:28:51 ◼   ► is, is what's the level of expectation they set from day

00:28:55 ◼   ► one? And how good is the baseline? I think it will

00:28:59 ◼   ► satisfy me and most people, if it's good at just indexing

00:29:04 ◼   ► information. So if you say, Hey, when was my daughter's concert

00:29:09 ◼   ► supposed to be and it wasn't in your calendar, and it goes and

00:29:11 ◼   ► finds the PDF and then does OCR on the PDF and finds that's good

00:29:16 ◼   ► enough. I don't need it to do all the other stuff. But if it

00:29:19 ◼   ► can't even do that, or it fine, that's where it's gonna be this

00:29:23 ◼   ► failed promise kind of thing where the potential is

00:29:26 ◼   ► theoretically so high, but in practice, it's just not there. I

00:29:29 ◼   ► am excited because I think if anyone can manage this, it's

00:29:32 ◼   ► Apple, they're running the models on device, the model seem

00:29:35 ◼   ► quite powerful. They have full control of the operating system

00:29:38 ◼   ► that nobody has control of. If anyone can do it, it's them. But

00:29:42 ◼   ► that's also like saying it's NASA. Yeah, it's Yeah, they can,

00:29:46 ◼   ► but it doesn't mean that it's easy. You know what I mean? So

00:29:48 ◼   ► yeah, yeah.

00:29:50 ◼   ► All right, let me take a break here and thank our first

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00:32:13 ◼   ► do we think about the I feel like if there's the biggest

00:32:16 ◼   ► sour note of that whole Apple intelligence announcement was the

00:32:20 ◼   ► cutoff for iPhones, right? It's for iPads and Macs. It's any M

00:32:27 ◼   ► series device and that feels completely expected, right? And

00:32:33 ◼   ► for the Mac in particular, it goes back at least to what the

00:32:36 ◼   ► end of 2020. Yes, feels that that's a pretty good backwards

00:32:40 ◼   ► window. It's better than I thought that there would be.

00:32:42 ◼   ► Yeah, I have cut out M one honestly. Yeah. Because there's

00:32:46 ◼   ► so many of those M ones hanging around that are just still

00:32:49 ◼   ► kicking so good. So it's good on Apple like that, like a

00:32:53 ◼   ► legendary class of devices, the M one max, because they debuted

00:32:58 ◼   ► to spectacular, too good to be true reviews. And here we are,

00:33:02 ◼   ► almost four years into it. And they're still kick ass machines.

00:33:07 ◼   ► I see it all the time where people are like, you know, I

00:33:10 ◼   ► was thinking about upgrading, but I've got this M one that I

00:33:12 ◼   ► bought the first generation and it I've got no complaints with

00:33:16 ◼   ► it. I've long said the base model M one Pro 14 inch MacBook

00:33:20 ◼   ► Pro will go down in history as one of Apple's best machines

00:33:24 ◼   ► ever. I mean, that's legendarily good, especially for the price.

00:33:28 ◼   ► I mean, you could get those things for 1500 bucks on sale

00:33:32 ◼   ► within a year of them releasing and it's still just a killer

00:33:37 ◼   ► machine. That made really, really good. And so I would say

00:33:40 ◼   ► that the backward compatibility for Apple intelligence on Mac

00:33:43 ◼   ► and iPad, very fair. Now I realized the difference is with

00:33:48 ◼   ► a Mac, pretty much all well, effectively all Mac books. And

00:33:53 ◼   ► that means most Macs that people have bought since the end of

00:33:57 ◼   ► 2020 have been Apple Silicon, right? That it's some number of

00:34:01 ◼   ► people bought a Mac Pro for reasons in 2021. But for the

00:34:06 ◼   ► most part, anybody who's bought a new Mac in the last three

00:34:10 ◼   ► years has one that qualifies for this. Whereas the story for

00:34:13 ◼   ► iPhones is for iPads. And there have been M one iPad pros for a

00:34:21 ◼   ► while, but it's only in the pro line, I guess, right. Or is

00:34:24 ◼   ► there an iPad air now?

00:34:25 ◼   ► Yeah, there was an M one air and that's, yeah.

00:34:29 ◼   ► So there's a couple, but it's, you know, it's pretty broad and

00:34:32 ◼   ► it's, you know, it's the ones that cost 800 bucks or more. They

00:34:36 ◼   ► qualify from the last few years, but that, that sad trombone is

00:34:40 ◼   ► the only iPhone that qualifies is the iPhone 15 pro, which is

00:34:45 ◼   ► nine months old. And even the regular non-pro iPhone 15, which

00:34:50 ◼   ► debuted just last September, doesn't qualify.

00:34:53 ◼   ► Yep. Brand new phone. You can still go buy in store. No go.

00:34:57 ◼   ► Yeah. It's a real bummer. JG on your show basically said, we

00:35:02 ◼   ► could, in theory have gotten Apple intelligence to run on.

00:35:06 ◼   ► And he said, very old devices was, I think the phrase he used.

00:35:10 ◼   ► Yeah. However, the performance would have been so poor that it

00:35:15 ◼   ► wouldn't have been worth doing. And I actually believe that I

00:35:17 ◼   ► think that much of what makes these models compelling is their

00:35:21 ◼   ► speed. And if it can't be done well on device, if you've got

00:35:24 ◼   ► memory limitations that just makes it not feasible, or you

00:35:27 ◼   ► have to load stuff in chunks, it's not ideal. It's, it's not a

00:35:30 ◼   ► good experience. The disappointment is that. Yeah.

00:35:33 ◼   ► There's one single iPhone that does this thing. And, and the

00:35:38 ◼   ► iPhone 15 is not a very old device. It is a current

00:35:41 ◼   ► generation device that is for sale today.

00:35:43 ◼   ► I wonder if his thinking on that, and it probably wasn't the

00:35:48 ◼   ► most judicious way of him phrasing it, but it's one of

00:35:52 ◼   ► those, it was one of those moments on the show where I was

00:35:54 ◼   ► like, Ooh, I was worried they wouldn't answer that question at

00:35:56 ◼   ► all. And that was actually a pretty straightforward answer

00:35:58 ◼   ► that yes, the RAM matters, right? Apple doesn't like to

00:36:01 ◼   ► talk about RAM and iPhones. And they more or less came right out

00:36:04 ◼   ► and said, yeah, well, it's, it's everything. It's the whole

00:36:06 ◼   ► device. It's the neural engine size, but RAM definitely matters.

00:36:10 ◼   ► And infamously, at least in tech circles, iPhones have been

00:36:15 ◼   ► relatively starved of RAM, which it's more complex than just Tim

00:36:20 ◼   ► Cook bean counting, right? Oh, add another $10 worth of RAM to

00:36:24 ◼   ► each iPhone and it affects 1% of the profit margin or something

00:36:28 ◼   ► like that. But every gigabyte of RAM you add to a device consumes

00:36:33 ◼   ► electricity. Once you put RAM in a device, it always consumes

00:36:36 ◼   ► electricity. More RAM adversely affects battery life. I don't

00:36:40 ◼   ► know by how much like for six versus eight gigabytes. It's

00:36:44 ◼   ► probably true that if like the A16 chips had two more gigs of

00:36:50 ◼   ► RAM, it really wouldn't affect battery life that much. But you

00:36:55 ◼   ► know, every little thing counts for battery life, right? Like

00:36:58 ◼   ► I've spoken to people who work on the team at Apple, more or

00:37:02 ◼   ► less the battery life team, which can kind of swoop into any

00:37:05 ◼   ► project within the company. We've identified that this is a

00:37:09 ◼   ► battery drain. It's hundreds and hundreds of little things that

00:37:13 ◼   ► contribute to battery life and RAM is one of them. But basically

00:37:17 ◼   ► it's it's undeniable at this point that it kind of looks like

00:37:20 ◼   ► a little bit of an own goal that Apple didn't move iPhones to

00:37:24 ◼   ► eight gigs of RAM a generation earlier at least.

00:37:27 ◼   ► Well, yeah, and I don't think that it was malicious intent. I

00:37:32 ◼   ► think it was frankly, probably, I mean, Apple's an enormous

00:37:35 ◼   ► company. I do think that if everything is to be believed on

00:37:39 ◼   ► how this kind of came to be that this Apple intelligence stuff

00:37:42 ◼   ► has happened fairly recently. And it's likely that the iPhone

00:37:47 ◼   ► 15 generation of phones was already pretty much finalized by

00:37:51 ◼   ► the time this really started getting steam, the teams are not

00:37:54 ◼   ► the same team. So they're not really talking about the

00:37:57 ◼   ► requirements. And so it kind of just came to be that I have no

00:38:00 ◼   ► doubt that by the time the iPhone 15 went on sale last

00:38:03 ◼   ► September, they knew it wasn't going to run Apple intelligence.

00:38:06 ◼   ► But I'm not confident that they would have known that when they

00:38:08 ◼   ► started development on the iPhone 15. So I think come this

00:38:12 ◼   ► fall, if we see an iPhone 16, that still doesn't have eight

00:38:15 ◼   ► gigs of RAM and can't do Apple intelligence. That's gonna be a,

00:38:19 ◼   ► we should get mad at them. Yeah, yeah.

00:38:22 ◼   ► What, what the hell's going on? Right? Yeah, yeah. Do you think

00:38:27 ◼   ► that it's sort of maybe not a comedy of errors, but a sort of

00:38:32 ◼   ► just unfortunate timing that it seems like Apple ran into not a

00:38:43 ◼   ► like a hiccup with going to three nanometers at TSMC with

00:38:48 ◼   ► the eight. So the a 17 Pro and the M three chips are Apple

00:38:53 ◼   ► silicon on the first generation three nanometer process from TSMC

00:38:57 ◼   ► and out over my skis here talking about this you but it's

00:39:02 ◼   ► good that you're here much more you're you have much more

00:39:05 ◼   ► informed opinions about this to me. But basically, that first

00:39:09 ◼   ► generation three nanometer process is expensive. And it's

00:39:13 ◼   ► probably why the eighth, the regular iPhone 15 are using the

00:39:21 ◼   ► a 16 chip from the year before. And maybe I that's what I was

00:39:26 ◼   ► getting at with JJ's answer that maybe from his perspective, he

00:39:30 ◼   ► doesn't really see from a software perspective, the iPhone

00:39:33 ◼   ► 15 isn't nine months old, it's two years old, because it's

00:39:37 ◼   ► that's the silicon. Yeah, it's it's possible. I think. Yeah,

00:39:44 ◼   ► it's tricky. Apple has been the kind of number one purchaser of

00:39:49 ◼   ► silicon from TSMC. Much of it is you've got to have the money and

00:39:53 ◼   ► you got to get in line to get the ticket deals and the kind of

00:39:57 ◼   ► the fabbing room that that you need. So I think they kind of

00:40:01 ◼   ► had to move to n three e by necessity. However, it is a bit

00:40:07 ◼   ► of a bummer kind of a black guy, in the sense that not that it

00:40:11 ◼   ► was a bum process, but it was expensive. It didn't really

00:40:16 ◼   ► yield the expectations and performance that people had come

00:40:20 ◼   ► to expect. And we don't really know the yields. TSMC doesn't

00:40:24 ◼   ► talk about it. Apple certainly doesn't talk about it. But I

00:40:27 ◼   ► would suspect they're not very good. And every everything that

00:40:31 ◼   ► you know, all the reports suggested it wasn't very good.

00:40:33 ◼   ► And so it's hard to say that it was cynical. But I do think that

00:40:42 ◼   ► they that it was unsurprising to me that they were not quick to

00:40:47 ◼   ► put the a 17 Pro in the non pro iPhone just because of the

00:40:52 ◼   ► amount of volume that the iPhone does. There literally may not

00:40:56 ◼   ► have been the overhead to be able to do that. Now with the M

00:41:00 ◼   ► for being on the new second generation and three process

00:41:03 ◼   ► from TSMC, I really expect that to come to the to the iPhone

00:41:08 ◼   ► this year. I'm still not confident that some of the

00:41:12 ◼   ► features of the a 17 Pro I mean, they gave the chip name Pro

00:41:17 ◼   ► right that they'll come down to some of the iPhone 16 stuff. So

00:41:21 ◼   ► one example is like the a 17 Pro has an onboard USB three

00:41:25 ◼   ► controller. The iPhone 15 famously does not support USB

00:41:29 ◼   ► three or Thunderbolt, it's just USB two over USB C, I will be

00:41:35 ◼   ► unsurprised, let's say, if a USB three controller does not make

00:41:39 ◼   ► its way into the base model iPhone even with newer silicon.

00:41:42 ◼   ► So I think they'll still find a way to kind of not fragment but

00:41:46 ◼   ► to cost cut in order to hit those lower prices on the kind

00:41:51 ◼   ► of the base model iPhone. But I do think that memory limitations

00:41:55 ◼   ► and then kind of just generalized fab stuff is going to

00:41:59 ◼   ► start to go away because TSMC new process is really good.

00:42:03 ◼   ► Apparently, the yields are pretty good. And I would expect

00:42:05 ◼   ► that to come kind of down to the rest of the lineup. I mean, look

00:42:08 ◼   ► at the look of the M for its killer, right? Yeah, it was way

00:42:11 ◼   ► more performant than anyone expected.

00:42:12 ◼   ► Yeah, so hold that. Yeah, hold that thought. But let me let me

00:42:16 ◼   ► just ask you to repeat that, though. Do you see you're

00:42:19 ◼   ► saying, come September, when we get the iPhone 16, and the 16

00:42:24 ◼   ► pros, you're not going to be surprised if the 16 get new

00:42:29 ◼   ► silicon, which is almost certain whether it would be shocking if

00:42:32 ◼   ► they're still on the ASX. I can't. But so yeah, but that

00:42:35 ◼   ► their silicon won't have the quote unquote, pro level USB

00:42:40 ◼   ► three. USB three. It feels funny to call pro Thunderbolt. You can

00:42:45 ◼   ► call pro. Okay, sure. Sure. But you think that maybe it won't

00:42:48 ◼   ► ship with that? I could see that too. Where they might not.

00:42:51 ◼   ► Yeah, I think they'll both get an a 18 because the a 17 pro

00:42:55 ◼   ► that's that's dead. That's old fat. They're not going to keep

00:42:57 ◼   ► the name. But I wouldn't be surprised if we see an a 18 and

00:43:01 ◼   ► then an a 18 Pro. And some of the distinguishing features are

00:43:05 ◼   ► on die memory, which has always been a characteristic of the

00:43:08 ◼   ► higher end chips, and then maybe goofy stuff like that USB speeds

00:43:13 ◼   ► or Thunderbolt speeds. I don't think they would extend that to

00:43:16 ◼   ► Wi Fi, but I suppose that's maybe a possibility to or maybe

00:43:19 ◼   ► the pro chip gets Wi Fi seven and the other one sticks with

00:43:22 ◼   ► 60. I don't know. I wouldn't think so. But who knows?

00:43:24 ◼   ► Yeah, but they definitely see the Thunderbolt stuff as a pro

00:43:29 ◼   ► configuration. And they're all in and you've been documenting

00:43:32 ◼   ► this with each keynote ever since they've started shooting

00:43:35 ◼   ► them on iPhones last year. That's there. They really are

00:43:40 ◼   ► dogfooding the iPhone 15 Pro camera as their camera. They've

00:43:45 ◼   ► they've they've ever since they started, they've shot all of

00:43:48 ◼   ► their keynotes using their own devices, which is kind of

00:43:52 ◼   ► flabbergasting given what we know of their production quality

00:43:55 ◼   ► standards.

00:43:56 ◼   ► Yeah, especially with new apps like Final Cut camera and Final

00:44:01 ◼   ► Cut for iPad two, which is the worst name ever. Yeah. I've had

00:44:07 ◼   ► to that is a Microsoft name if I've ever heard.

00:44:10 ◼   ► All right, this is this is we have to have an aside on this.

00:44:13 ◼   ► The name of the product is Final Cut Pro for iPad two, which

00:44:18 ◼   ► really sounds like it's made for 2011 iPad two. And we know

00:44:24 ◼   ► again, it speaks to the human intuition that I was saying,

00:44:28 ◼   ► we're not robots. So we know that Apple in 2024 did not just

00:44:35 ◼   ► release Final Cut Pro for a 2011 iPad. But that sure is what

00:44:41 ◼   ► this what it sounds like. It's like the those those grammar

00:44:44 ◼   ► books, like eat shoots and leaves. It's, it needs

00:44:47 ◼   ► rewriting. I would suggest Final Cut Pro for iPad version two.

00:44:53 ◼   ► But yeah, I would go back in time and name it something fun,

00:44:57 ◼   ► like Final Cut Go or something like that. Yeah, maybe I don't

00:45:01 ◼   ► know. Because it's not really Final Cut Pro. Right. You tried

00:45:05 ◼   ► using it, right? Yeah. I mean, I know. We're sort of over the

00:45:09 ◼   ► place. And I couldn't really. So I bought the one terabyte and

00:45:13 ◼   ► four iPad. The footage that we shoot here in studio is ProRes

00:45:18 ◼   ► 422, very large footage, the kind of compression ratio, it's

00:45:23 ◼   ► very, very little. So it's this enormous amount of data. And

00:45:27 ◼   ► you've got to manage the library size and the iPad in some

00:45:31 ◼   ► instances wants to make proxy footage. It doesn't with ProRes

00:45:34 ◼   ► because it plays back ProRes like butter and anything can

00:45:37 ◼   ► now ProRes is a pretty awesome codec, if not very highly

00:45:41 ◼   ► compressed. And I literally could not use Final Cut because

00:45:45 ◼   ► even though I had a one terabyte iPad with almost nothing on it,

00:45:48 ◼   ► I couldn't fit a single video's worth of video footage on the

00:45:51 ◼   ► iPad, you couldn't use an external drive. Now with Final

00:45:54 ◼   ► Cut Pro for iPad two, you can, however, it's still limited in

00:45:59 ◼   ► some of the stuff that it can do. It doesn't have the entire

00:46:03 ◼   ► feature set of the Mac variant of Final Cut. Now it does come

00:46:07 ◼   ► pretty close, closer than you would think. But I think you

00:46:11 ◼   ► would be hard pressed to find anybody that's seriously editing

00:46:14 ◼   ► in Final Cut, that does not have a bunch of extensions and tools

00:46:19 ◼   ► from third parties inside the NLE. And that's something that

00:46:23 ◼   ► the iPad obviously does not support. So in that way, it's

00:46:29 ◼   ► pretty much a no go still for me. But I think it's close

00:46:33 ◼   ► enough that you can get 95% of the video done. You can keep it

00:46:37 ◼   ► stored on an external drive now. And then when you get back to a

00:46:40 ◼   ► Mac, you plug it into the Mac, you finish up the last 5%. The

00:46:43 ◼   ► same story is kind of true with DaVinci Resolve for iPad, where

00:46:48 ◼   ► Resolve is very odd, is they disabled a few of the tabs.

00:46:53 ◼   ► DaVinci Resolve has a bunch of tabs, they have like cut tab, a

00:46:56 ◼   ► color tab, a fairlight tab, which is their like compositor,

00:47:00 ◼   ► their 3d rendering engine thing, actually, fairlight might be

00:47:03 ◼   ► Adobe, in any case, it doesn't matter. They've got a bunch of

00:47:06 ◼   ► different environments that you can use inside of this app. And

00:47:09 ◼   ► in typical DaVinci, I should say, maybe say a non Apple

00:47:13 ◼   ► fashion, this is something Microsoft would do, it seems

00:47:16 ◼   ► that they ported the entire app. So all of the functionality of

00:47:20 ◼   ► DaVinci Resolve theoretically, is in the iPad version. But then

00:47:24 ◼   ► from like the from a build level, they went in and disabled

00:47:30 ◼   ► a bunch of those pages that didn't work very well on the

00:47:32 ◼   ► iPad. But what they didn't disable was keyboard work

00:47:36 ◼   ► arounds that you can use to pull those pages back up. So you can

00:47:39 ◼   ► open up DaVinci Resolve for iPad and open up panels that they

00:47:43 ◼   ► specifically closed because they don't run very well on the iPad,

00:47:46 ◼   ► because it is the full desktop app on the iPad, it's the whole

00:47:49 ◼   ► thing. It just doesn't do certain stuff, because it's

00:47:53 ◼   ► missing components because of the way that iOS sandbox

00:47:56 ◼   ► required for it to work. So the 3d kind of the modeling engine

00:48:01 ◼   ► where you can do VFX stuff, that's all available, it just

00:48:04 ◼   ► doesn't do anything, you can go in and push all the buttons and

00:48:07 ◼   ► just nothing happens because the underlying code is not there on

00:48:10 ◼   ► the iPad and or can't run. But I was able to re enable a bunch of

00:48:14 ◼   ► the tabs that by default were shut off. I don't know why.

00:48:17 ◼   ► Because the iPad and I'm guessing it was for overhead on

00:48:21 ◼   ► older iPads, but now with the M four worked great. And I edited

00:48:25 ◼   ► a full video doing everything I normally would have done on a

00:48:29 ◼   ► Mac on the iPad, like legitimately 100% worked

00:48:32 ◼   ► awesome.

00:48:33 ◼   ► Huh? That's really interesting. And it is true, that is very much

00:48:37 ◼   ► sort of a taste of traditional PC software development on on

00:48:43 ◼   ► the iPad of Yep. You know, and I am not a DaVinci Resolve user in

00:48:48 ◼   ► any way, but I've seen it in demos. And it is sort of, you

00:48:53 ◼   ► know, it's obviously written in some kind of cross platform way

00:48:56 ◼   ► where it doesn't run as a regular Mac app, it runs sort of

00:49:00 ◼   ► in a rectangle, it has its own menu bar. So like the actual Mac

00:49:04 ◼   ► menu bar just has two commands like quit. Yeah, it's gotten a

00:49:08 ◼   ► lot better. But originally, like I started using resolve with

00:49:11 ◼   ► DaVinci resolve 15, I think, which probably came out at this

00:49:14 ◼   ► point, five years ago on the Mac. And resolve was originally

00:49:18 ◼   ► an app for Linux, because they use it in Hollywood in these

00:49:22 ◼   ► air gapped machines that are running like Red Hat Linux that

00:49:25 ◼   ► you know, it's so they did this initial kind of port to Mac OS

00:49:30 ◼   ► and Windows. But they were such rudimentary reports that in

00:49:34 ◼   ► order to quit the app, there was no system level quit command. So

00:49:37 ◼   ► you couldn't command queue, you had to hit the close button in

00:49:40 ◼   ► the top right of the window, of course, because that's where

00:49:43 ◼   ► where Linux and Windows had put it. And so it was really janky.

00:49:48 ◼   ► It's gotten much better over the years, but you still open it and

00:49:51 ◼   ► you think to yourself, yeah, this is not a Mac or an iPad

00:49:55 ◼   ► first app, that's for sure.

00:49:56 ◼   ► Right. And the the diehard, native Mac asked Mac app

00:50:02 ◼   ► proponent in me, objects, objects to that on the surface,

00:50:06 ◼   ► but I totally get how at the extreme ends of professional

00:50:10 ◼   ► software, that's where you tend to run into this type of app.

00:50:14 ◼   ► And I do appreciate that it if it really is not really a Mac

00:50:19 ◼   ► app, and they're not deeply or even shallow, we use using app

00:50:24 ◼   ► kit, the Mac only application framework, you really can sort

00:50:28 ◼   ► of just recompile it for iPad, and it just runs in a rectangle

00:50:31 ◼   ► on the iPad.

00:50:32 ◼   ► Yeah. And to be fair to resolve, they've spent a black magic has

00:50:36 ◼   ► spent a bunch of time making sure that it uses the video

00:50:42 ◼   ► engines that are available on Apple silicon, it's not running

00:50:44 ◼   ► some janky ported OpenGL that Adobe did for a long time, like

00:50:49 ◼   ► this is native uses metal, and all of the API frameworks that

00:50:54 ◼   ► Apple supports just in an app that's quite ugly and on Apple,

00:50:57 ◼   ► but it's one of the reasons why you can export a video at crazy

00:51:01 ◼   ► lightning fast speeds in super high resolution from really high

00:51:04 ◼   ► resolution source footage on a freaking iPad, and it works

00:51:08 ◼   ► great. It's so cool.

00:51:10 ◼   ► It's also a reason why Apple likes to show it to the media as

00:51:14 ◼   ► whether it's for the Mac or the iPad, even though it's not you

00:51:17 ◼   ► typically, oh, this doesn't really look like a great Mac or

00:51:21 ◼   ► iPad app is a big red X against his Apple going to use this as a

00:51:25 ◼   ► demo. But when it does amazing things with amazing performance,

00:51:30 ◼   ► because it's taking advantage of metal and really using the

00:51:34 ◼   ► Apple silicon GPUs to the full extent that they're possibly can

00:51:37 ◼   ► be used, then Apple's like, yeah, we'd like to show this off

00:51:40 ◼   ► even if don't look at it.

00:51:42 ◼   ► I don't know if there's a better example of a pro app than

00:51:44 ◼   ► resolve.

00:51:45 ◼   ► On the iPad, do you get to use the menu bar because the menu

00:51:50 ◼   ► bar is their own?

00:51:51 ◼   ► Yes and no. So they've put some of the menu bars into more

00:51:55 ◼   ► iPad esque sub menus. So they have moved the UI around a

00:52:00 ◼   ► little bit, but not much. There's like this home button

00:52:04 ◼   ► that takes you back to the main project window that's that's

00:52:06 ◼   ► available inside of the desktop version of resolve. But yeah,

00:52:10 ◼   ► you can tap a project. There's a little kind of triple dot

00:52:13 ◼   ► thing. And if you click that with your mouse cursor, a big

00:52:15 ◼   ► sub menu pops up and you can go into a full windowed settings

00:52:19 ◼   ► menu pane that you would see on the desktop. So effectively,

00:52:23 ◼   ► yeah, I mean, you can, you can get access to, and because much

00:52:27 ◼   ► of what they've done to make it feel more iPad esque is they've

00:52:31 ◼   ► disabled some of the stuff that is ugly and they've moved them

00:52:35 ◼   ► into more iPad looking sub menus, but all of that stuff is

00:52:37 ◼   ► still there because the code base hasn't changed. And so

00:52:40 ◼   ► you can use hotkeys that you're used to using on the desktop

00:52:43 ◼   ► and it'll pull up some janky looking menu that doesn't fit

00:52:47 ◼   ► well at all on the iPad, but it's there and it still is

00:52:50 ◼   ► functional. So anything you can do on resolve on the Mac, save

00:52:54 ◼   ► for kind of the, the compositing stuff you can do on the iPad.

00:52:56 ◼   ► And it might be ugly, but it works and it's pretty cool.

00:53:00 ◼   ► Yeah. It seems sort of like a poster child for some of these

00:53:03 ◼   ► arguments that we collectively have been having about the iPad

00:53:07 ◼   ► as a pro machine. It's well here, if you took this pro software

00:53:10 ◼   ► and just sort of let it be its desktop self to the fullest

00:53:15 ◼   ► extent possible, here's what it would be like. And it's kind of

00:53:19 ◼   ► weird and kind of ugly in some certain ways, but maybe one of

00:53:23 ◼   ► the most capable apps period on the iPad. Yeah. And I think

00:53:27 ◼   ► there is an argument to be had about, I think if Apple had

00:53:31 ◼   ► their way, they would go to Blackmagic and say, Hey, we

00:53:33 ◼   ► love the functionality and the power of this app. Let's spruce

00:53:36 ◼   ► it up visually a little bit. Let's maybe move some stuff

00:53:38 ◼   ► around. So it doesn't feel there's even like weird scaling

00:53:41 ◼   ► issues where some of the text is really small. Cause again,

00:53:44 ◼   ► it's just some lazy, I don't want to say lazy port, but it

00:53:46 ◼   ► is, it's kind of a lazy port, but I feel like part of what

00:53:50 ◼   ► makes it so compelling for people that are using this type

00:53:53 ◼   ► of app is that it is DaVinci resolve. It's not some weird

00:53:55 ◼   ► iPad version of DaVinci resolve. It's the app that I use

00:53:58 ◼   ► on my Mac. And so I don't have to relearn a new user

00:54:01 ◼   ► interface. I don't have to think to myself, where did they

00:54:03 ◼   ► hide that thing? That's not in the sub menu it's normally in.

00:54:06 ◼   ► Can the iPad even do that? It just, if you can do it on the

00:54:09 ◼   ► Mac, you can do it on the iPad. And for certain apps like that,

00:54:12 ◼   ► that might be the way to go, honestly.

00:54:14 ◼   ► Yeah. And that it just to sort of wrap up the point that the

00:54:19 ◼   ► M4 appearing last month in the new iPad pros was definitely a

00:54:23 ◼   ► surprise. And I, sir, I infamously wrote like when

00:54:27 ◼   ► Gurman reported on it, I don't know, this doesn't sound right

00:54:30 ◼   ► to me. It just based on their schedule, but it really in

00:54:33 ◼   ► hindsight, it makes sense because of what we were talking

00:54:35 ◼   ► about with the TSMC fabrication and that if it does, if the

00:54:40 ◼   ► yields were too low, and therefore yields being low makes

00:54:43 ◼   ► it more expensive. If it was expensive to start, and the

00:54:47 ◼   ► yields were low, it explains why only one iPhone got the A17

00:54:51 ◼   ► Pro. It explains why Apple was more or less in a rush to go

00:54:55 ◼   ► from the M3 to the M4. They are a by all accounts, because

00:54:59 ◼   ► WWDC has come and gone. They are going to skip the M3

00:55:04 ◼   ► generation for the Mac Studio and yep, no ultras for the M3

00:55:10 ◼   ► and wait for the M4. And it's really about getting to that

00:55:14 ◼   ► second generation three nanometer process. And so yeah,

00:55:18 ◼   ► I would be flabbergasted if all the new iPhone 16s aren't

00:55:23 ◼   ► using, I guess I'm guessing the names will be A18, maybe

00:55:28 ◼   ► A18 Bionic, I don't know. Maybe. And A18 Pro for the Pro chips.

00:55:34 ◼   ► And maybe they'll just be binned that there'll be more GPUs.

00:55:38 ◼   ► I don't know what the differences will be, but I would

00:55:41 ◼   ► anticipate that they didn't just introduce the A17 Pro name

00:55:45 ◼   ► for one year. So I guess A18, A18 Pro. But I think the other

00:55:51 ◼   ► thing is also going back to all of this Apple intelligence

00:55:56 ◼   ► being revealed by Apple almost unprecedentedly early by Apple

00:56:02 ◼   ► standards means that maybe this device cutoff doesn't matter

00:56:07 ◼   ► that much anyway, because a lot of this stuff they're already

00:56:12 ◼   ► saying won't even come in developer betas till later this

00:56:15 ◼   ► summer. All of the features in Apple intelligence are at the

00:56:19 ◼   ► earliest later this year. And they've already said even come

00:56:25 ◼   ► fall when the new OSs are out, the Apple intelligence features

00:56:30 ◼   ► will still be called beta. That once iOS 18 comes out and you

00:56:35 ◼   ► can just install iOS 18 on your phone, at whatever pace they

00:56:40 ◼   ► roll out the features of Apple intelligence, they're going to

00:56:43 ◼   ► ship as beta apparently, even when you're not running a beta

00:56:47 ◼   ► version of the OS. And some of the features they're even saying

00:56:50 ◼   ► next year, so it won't come till 18.3 or 18.4 early next year or

00:56:57 ◼   ► something like that. So by the time a lot of these features come

00:57:01 ◼   ► out, it won't just be the A15 Pro, there'll be all of the A16

00:57:05 ◼   ► phones too. And if we really think that this is all a year

00:57:10 ◼   ► ahead of time, mostly, we're really talking about like for a

00:57:14 ◼   ► lot of people, it may not be till the iPhone 17s come out.

00:57:19 ◼   ► A year and a half from now, when people really start, you

00:57:24 ◼   ► know, again, to overuse the metaphor, but there's kind of

00:57:27 ◼   ► skating to where the puck is going, not where it is right

00:57:30 ◼   ► now. And this, I don't think this will be that big a deal

00:57:34 ◼   ► that the cutoff is so limited right now in terms of hardware.

00:57:38 ◼   ► I agree. I think that Apple intelligence is very much not a

00:57:43 ◼   ► singular product, it's a platform, and that we're going

00:57:46 ◼   ► to continue to see new features added and new capabilities for

00:57:50 ◼   ► years to come. I mean, this is, I wouldn't be surprised if in

00:57:53 ◼   ► future WWDC keynotes, we almost get an Apple intelligence

00:57:56 ◼   ► section independent of, you know, as if it were its own

00:58:00 ◼   ► operating system kind of platform in many ways. Yeah, in

00:58:03 ◼   ► many ways, it somewhat will be. The other thing, I don't

00:58:06 ◼   ► actually think this is going to happen. But I, I thought it

00:58:09 ◼   ► would be interesting, perhaps to postulate. Apple still

00:58:14 ◼   ► doesn't really have any usage data on any of this stuff. They

00:58:16 ◼   ► don't really know what users are going to be most interested in

00:58:20 ◼   ► or what will be used the most. I'm sure they have ideas

00:58:23 ◼   ► because many of these features still exist, or many of these

00:58:25 ◼   ► features do exist in other, you know, AI company products. But

00:58:30 ◼   ► I wouldn't be surprised perhaps if this private cloud compute

00:58:34 ◼   ► functionality makes its way to some older devices via iCloud

00:58:40 ◼   ► Plus, if there's a way for them to use services, or to increase

00:58:45 ◼   ► services revenue by bringing maybe some, it's not going to do

00:58:48 ◼   ► everything, but some of these simpler AI features that don't

00:58:51 ◼   ► run on device to older devices, and it just comes with the

00:58:54 ◼   ► gotcha of, well, it's going through the cloud, it's going to

00:58:57 ◼   ► take a minute, but it can still do the thing. I wouldn't be

00:59:01 ◼   ► surprised if that happens next year, sometime into the future.

00:59:04 ◼   ► Yeah, I, because that's, and I mentioned it in my write up that

00:59:09 ◼   ► I published last night, that perhaps the most common question

00:59:15 ◼   ► I've been asked after WWDC, and I think it's a super

00:59:18 ◼   ► interesting, very, very good question is, okay, if they've

00:59:23 ◼   ► got stuff on device and the on device stuff is limited to the

00:59:27 ◼   ► iPhone 15 Pro and later, but they've also got private cloud

00:59:31 ◼   ► compute, why not just do everything through private cloud

00:59:35 ◼   ► compute on older phones? And I think it's, I think, I, I wish I

00:59:43 ◼   ► had asked a question along those lines on stage, because I,

00:59:47 ◼   ► because I think it's actually a really good topic. And I think

00:59:50 ◼   ► they might have said some interesting things about it. But

00:59:53 ◼   ► I also kind of think they may not want to talk about some of

00:59:56 ◼   ► the reasons and I, I, I, but like you said, I can't help but

01:00:00 ◼   ► think that maybe they will expand that and that they might

01:00:04 ◼   ► expand both things, right? Obviously, as time goes on,

01:00:07 ◼   ► they're going to do more stuff on device five or six years from

01:00:10 ◼   ► now, they'll be doing way more on device than they are now,

01:00:14 ◼   ► because the devices will be five or six years into the future in

01:00:18 ◼   ► terms of performance and memory and stuff like that. But I also

01:00:21 ◼   ► wouldn't be surprised once they get confidence and scaling and

01:00:26 ◼   ► know how much computational power private cloud compute

01:00:30 ◼   ► takes, that they'll expand what private cloud compute can do,

01:00:34 ◼   ► too, maybe by bringing it to other devices. But I can't help

01:00:39 ◼   ► but think that part of the reason for this iPhone 15 Pro

01:00:41 ◼   ► cutoff, in addition to the RAM and the neural engine size and

01:00:44 ◼   ► everything is they just want to minimize the initial onrush of

01:00:51 ◼   ► traffic. They, they don't know how it's going to scale. They

01:00:55 ◼   ► obviously have a, they have a theory as to how it's going to

01:00:57 ◼   ► scale. But I don't think anybody really knows how anything will

01:01:01 ◼   ► scale until you flip the switch and go live.

01:01:03 ◼   ► And I think maybe one technical reason that could be given this

01:01:07 ◼   ► seems like the answer maybe jaws would give. I don't know if it's

01:01:12 ◼   ► a technical reason or but it's one that I've heard postulated

01:01:15 ◼   ► that does make sense is Apple intelligence isn't just the AI

01:01:21 ◼   ► model that actually does the thing you want it to do. It's

01:01:23 ◼   ► also this kind of, you know, intent engine that's supposed to

01:01:28 ◼   ► understand, okay, what's the thing that wants to be

01:01:30 ◼   ► performed. And if there's some reason, perhaps technically,

01:01:33 ◼   ► that devices with not enough memory or whatever can't even do

01:01:35 ◼   ► that part, where they don't even know what is being asked of it.

01:01:40 ◼   ► And we don't want to just send everything to the cloud,

01:01:42 ◼   ► because that's the whole point of Apple intelligence that it

01:01:44 ◼   ► only sends what's required and that it's deleted right after if

01:01:48 ◼   ► it can't even do that part of what does the user want to have

01:01:51 ◼   ► happen, then how can it do the rest of the AI stuff that maybe

01:01:55 ◼   ► is one rationale. But yeah, I don't know, it does seem like an

01:01:59 ◼   ► opportunity to get a bunch of services revenue out of people

01:02:03 ◼   ► into the future because people buying. I mean, Apple knows the

01:02:06 ◼   ► average upgrade cycle of iPhones, it's several years now.

01:02:09 ◼   ► And there's a lot of people that have bought iPhone 15 that might

01:02:12 ◼   ► subscribe to iCloud plus or something if image generation,

01:02:17 ◼   ► for example, could be done in the cloud, but they're not going

01:02:19 ◼   ► to go buy a brand new phone, they'll just wait three or four

01:02:22 ◼   ► years till they go buy their next upgrade, you know, so

01:02:26 ◼   ► I had to double check, but it is true. And I guess it makes

01:02:29 ◼   ► sense, given that it is LLM generative image generation, but

01:02:35 ◼   ► Genmoji is part of Apple intelligence and therefore

01:02:38 ◼   ► subject to these device limitations, right? And and yeah,

01:02:44 ◼   ► it is, again, I don't blame Apple because they had so much

01:02:47 ◼   ► to announce. But in the structure of the keynote,

01:02:51 ◼   ► everything in the first hour isn't part of Apple

01:02:54 ◼   ► intelligence until they mentioned Apple intelligence,

01:02:56 ◼   ► like an hour and five minutes into it, and started the second

01:03:00 ◼   ► half of the keynote. All those previous features are available

01:03:03 ◼   ► to other devices, the whole math notes thing, which is so fun

01:03:07 ◼   ► and super cool, goes back to every device that's eligible

01:03:11 ◼   ► for iOS 18. So whatever the earliest cutoff is for an iPhone

01:03:15 ◼   ► that can run iOS 18, you can do math notes on it. The

01:03:19 ◼   ► handwriting match feature, they call it smart match, I think,

01:03:23 ◼   ► or smart script. Smart script is their name for it, which in

01:03:26 ◼   ► my testing so far isn't really doing a great job at my

01:03:30 ◼   ► handwriting. It is making my handwriting more legible, but

01:03:33 ◼   ► it's also to me not recognizable as my handwriting. But still,

01:03:37 ◼   ► I think any improvement over my really bad handwriting is,

01:03:42 ◼   ► but that's coming to every iPhone or iPad, obviously,

01:03:47 ◼   ► because it requires a pencil, A14 or later, and I forget

01:03:51 ◼   ► where the cutoff, but that's pretty reasonable. That's a

01:03:53 ◼   ► couple of years worth of iPads. But they definitely, I think,

01:04:02 ◼   ► left people confused because they announced so much at once

01:04:05 ◼   ► as to which devices are going to get any of these features

01:04:08 ◼   ► and which devices aren't. And I just don't know how much

01:04:12 ◼   ► better job they could do by trying to have one two hour

01:04:16 ◼   ► keynote that covered all of this.

01:04:17 ◼   ► Ben

01:04:26 ◼   ► features come and part of me suspects that even they are not

01:04:31 ◼   ► fully entirely sure yet. I mean, they've Yeah, what exists in

01:04:34 ◼   ► the beta today? That's obviously, you know, that's part

01:04:37 ◼   ► of iOS 18 or iPad OS 18. But much of the kind of Apple

01:04:41 ◼   ► Intelligency stuff, I wouldn't be surprised. I mean, so one

01:04:44 ◼   ► other example, like this image playgrounds app, where you can

01:04:47 ◼   ► go in and make whatever photo you want, that's all running on

01:04:50 ◼   ► device, right? So that's not in the cloud right now, as far as

01:04:53 ◼   ► I'm aware. But I don't know. I really thought that they're

01:04:58 ◼   ► done on device. I think they're I think Jen Moji might be on

01:05:02 ◼   ► device, but the image playground is not. But they also

01:05:06 ◼   ► they have been made to their credit. They behind the scenes

01:05:11 ◼   ► and briefings when I asked, Are you going to show what's local

01:05:14 ◼   ► what's remote? And they said, there's going to be a log you

01:05:18 ◼   ► can look at. And we'll show you when it went to private cloud

01:05:22 ◼   ► compute, but they're not going to show it in the interface,

01:05:24 ◼   ► whether it's going remote or not. And they're not talking

01:05:28 ◼   ► about which features are which because they just fully admitted

01:05:30 ◼   ► we don't know yet. And we reserve the right even after we

01:05:35 ◼   ► ship and come out of beta, we're going to be constantly all the

01:05:38 ◼   ► time. Sure. Okay, so well, then that's maybe a better argument.

01:05:42 ◼   ► Much of the kind of image playground stuff is context

01:05:46 ◼   ► based, right? So they showed in the keynote, oh, hey, it's mom's

01:05:50 ◼   ► birthday. And yeah, who knows that. And so it generated this

01:05:53 ◼   ► image in the messages app. Don't bring that because that requires

01:05:56 ◼   ► Apple intelligence. But why couldn't you just bring a basic

01:05:59 ◼   ► image playgrounds app where you can go in and there's no

01:06:01 ◼   ► contextual, no smart suggestions that they have. It's just like,

01:06:05 ◼   ► Hey, picture of Brenda on top of a mountain or whatever. And it

01:06:10 ◼   ► could do that all in the cloud, you would think that would be

01:06:12 ◼   ► something fairly easy, because that's something that, well,

01:06:15 ◼   ► basically, every image generation service already does.

01:06:19 ◼   ► And maybe that would be Apple's reasoning as well. Just go use

01:06:22 ◼   ► something else. But seems like money left on the table. I don't

01:06:25 ◼   ► know how

01:06:25 ◼   ► funny would it be if Genmoji is the feature that drives people

01:06:29 ◼   ► to like, okay, I was gonna wait another year or two to get an

01:06:32 ◼   ► iPhone, but I've got to get a new iPhone because it may got it.

01:06:34 ◼   ► It cracks me up. And I know this for a fact that Apple, I

01:06:40 ◼   ► forget if Apple has a say in world emoji J day, or I know

01:06:45 ◼   ► Apple is, they're influential across the industry, but they're

01:06:49 ◼   ► particularly influential in the emoji world. Because they're

01:06:53 ◼   ► Apple and that's where people they're sort of Apple's emoji

01:06:56 ◼   ► set is sort of the de facto baseline standard that all other

01:07:01 ◼   ► emoji sets are compared against. But I know that Apple times

01:07:07 ◼   ► their release of new emoji, the like here, the inner the Unicode

01:07:14 ◼   ► consortiums new emoji of the year are out and we're going to

01:07:18 ◼   ► unveil our versions of the new emoji. They always wait until

01:07:22 ◼   ► iOS 7, usually right. Point one or point two. And it's, it's the

01:07:26 ◼   ► one that they think, Oh, this is the one that's really stable.

01:07:30 ◼   ► And that's when they start hitting the button that pushes

01:07:33 ◼   ► the pushes the updates to people, right? So if you're just

01:07:36 ◼   ► a typical iPhone user with default settings, which include

01:07:41 ◼   ► okaying to automatic app store updates and automatic OS updates,

01:07:48 ◼   ► hey, Apple. And I think that's the right way to go. I turn that

01:07:52 ◼   ► stuff off. I like to upgrade all my stuff manually. I'm sure you

01:07:55 ◼   ► do too. Right. But I get why they want typical users to say,

01:08:02 ◼   ► let, let Apple handle when my device will update. They don't

01:08:06 ◼   ► update people to iOS 17.0 automatically. They usually wait

01:08:11 ◼   ► till point one, sometimes point two, but that's also when they

01:08:14 ◼   ► do the new emoji because they want people to upgrade and they

01:08:18 ◼   ► know that people I've spoken to people at Apple. They're like,

01:08:21 ◼   ► yes, emoji prompts people to update they, and especially once

01:08:25 ◼   ► they get a text message from somebody else who's updated

01:08:28 ◼   ► using one of the new emoji, they're like, wait, I can't see

01:08:31 ◼   ► that. Square. Yeah. You have to update and they're like, okay,

01:08:36 ◼   ► I'm going to go update right now. Yeah. Be very funny. And

01:08:39 ◼   ► even Jen, the driver as an, it very well could be as silly as

01:08:44 ◼   ► it was like an emoji when it shipped with the iPhone 10 that

01:08:48 ◼   ► was mocked by tons of people and everyone thought this is so

01:08:51 ◼   ► stupid. And that was a huge driver. I think in interest of

01:08:56 ◼   ► the iPhone didn't mean everyone went out and bought an iPhone 10,

01:08:58 ◼   ► but it was, I mean, it was probably my vote, my most viral

01:09:02 ◼   ► piece of content I've ever made. I made a, with an iPhone 10, I

01:09:05 ◼   ► made like a quote unquote Apple ad in the same style that you'd

01:09:09 ◼   ► find on TV. And I did an animoji dub to Gasolina from daddy

01:09:14 ◼   ► Yankee. And I think that got, I think that got like 250 million

01:09:20 ◼   ► views on Twitter or something. Oh my God. It was like the

01:09:23 ◼   ► number one tweet for a couple of days. And so I think that kind

01:09:26 ◼   ► of stuff as goofy as it is legitimately does drive real

01:09:30 ◼   ► interest. I don't know that it sells a bunch of phones, but it

01:09:33 ◼   ► definitely sells some of them. Yeah. I will say before we leave

01:09:37 ◼   ► the subject, I will say that I would say the least impressive

01:09:41 ◼   ► thing Apple showed in all of Apple intelligence to me was the

01:09:45 ◼   ► image playground app, just because it looked like every

01:09:50 ◼   ► other image, Jen thing I've seen. It, it, it seemed like the

01:09:55 ◼   ► one thing in all of the announcements that didn't Apple

01:10:00 ◼   ► wasn't bringing anything to the table in my opinion. Yeah. No.

01:10:03 ◼   ► And I actually think that it looked worse than many services.

01:10:08 ◼   ► It looked like several versions, old of Dolly. And part of that

01:10:11 ◼   ► is because of, and it was an intentional decision, this kind

01:10:15 ◼   ► of cartoonish art style they wanted. They don't want photo

01:10:18 ◼   ► realism, but on the same hand, we didn't look at those and go,

01:10:23 ◼   ► Oh, this is Pixar level. You're like, yeah, that's a, that's a

01:10:26 ◼   ► weird AI image. And even in some of the images they showed in the

01:10:29 ◼   ► keynote, which are obviously handpicked. I mean, there's a

01:10:32 ◼   ► probably the best that they produce. There's still weird

01:10:35 ◼   ► stuff. If you look close at them, there's like weird finger

01:10:37 ◼   ► stuff going on and hair that goes through parts of the torso

01:10:41 ◼   ► at some point. I mean, it's still very much a high image.

01:10:45 ◼   ► And there's a picture of a woman that they've used in

01:10:48 ◼   ► several, I might even be in the newsroom post. It's like a white

01:10:52 ◼   ► woman probably in her in real life, forties or fifties. And

01:10:56 ◼   ► it's kind of unflattering to her. It's, she's got crows feet

01:11:00 ◼   ► around her eyes. It's almost the opposite of what you would want,

01:11:04 ◼   ► right? You kind of, if you're the boardwalk caricaturist,

01:11:08 ◼   ► you're supposed to make the person look exaggerated. Like

01:11:11 ◼   ► they're going to give me a big nose because I have a big nose,

01:11:14 ◼   ► but not in an unflattering way, right? That's the trick. It's,

01:11:18 ◼   ► Oh, we'll give the John's caricature is going to have a

01:11:21 ◼   ► real big nose, but we're still going to make them look pretty

01:11:23 ◼   ► good. And a little younger than he really is, right? You don't

01:11:26 ◼   ► make somebody look older. Yeah. Like I didn't wear your eye

01:11:31 ◼   ► cream the night before. Yeah. And you wait, that's, there's

01:11:33 ◼   ► going to be controversy behind that because they're just

01:11:36 ◼   ► grappling with the stuff that everybody's grappled with. So

01:11:38 ◼   ► even within these, these walls and parameters that they've

01:11:40 ◼   ► set of, we're not doing photo realism, we don't, there's

01:11:44 ◼   ► definitely going to be a bunch of keywords that it just

01:11:46 ◼   ► refuses to generate images on, but you wait, I mean, it's

01:11:49 ◼   ► going to mess up people's skin tones and it's gonna, it's just

01:11:53 ◼   ► going to do the stuff that AI images do. And Apple's not

01:11:56 ◼   ► immune to that. And proof of that is kind of the images they

01:12:00 ◼   ► demoed, which again, like you said, we're awesome. Yeah.

01:12:03 ◼   ► Yeah. And with the words, the language stuff, they're not

01:12:08 ◼   ► letting you prompt, right there. So you don't get to say,

01:12:13 ◼   ► write me a cover letter for a job I want to apply for. You

01:12:17 ◼   ► write a cover letter and then you select the text and say,

01:12:20 ◼   ► make this sound more professional or proofread it, right?

01:12:23 ◼   ► I'm real, I personally, I'm very intrigued by the proofreading.

01:12:26 ◼   ► I don't, I, I'm stubborn and I think of myself very well as a

01:12:33 ◼   ► writer, so I'm not really looking to have my own prose

01:12:36 ◼   ► rewritten in a different tone, but the proofreading I would

01:12:41 ◼   ► love if it works well. I certainly appreciate, I have long

01:12:44 ◼   ► appreciated spell checking, automatic red underlines of

01:12:48 ◼   ► Save My Bacon, I was going to say thousands, probably tens of

01:12:52 ◼   ► thousands of times since I've been writing Daring Fireball.

01:12:56 ◼   ► So I would love the proofreading part as a one person show who

01:12:59 ◼   ► does his own proofreading, but you don't get to say, write me a

01:13:03 ◼   ► cover letter or write me a very inappropriate story about X, Y,

01:13:09 ◼   ► and Z. You don't get to say that. So what they're saying is

01:13:13 ◼   ► they don't, and again, what they're saying to me is the

01:13:16 ◼   ► exact attitude I would like Apple to have, which is we're

01:13:19 ◼   ► not going to give you a full prompt where you can ask for

01:13:24 ◼   ► inappropriate stuff, but if you write something yourself and

01:13:28 ◼   ► ask the system to proofread it or to change the tone, it will.

01:13:34 ◼   ► So if you write an inappropriate story, an R-rated or X-rated

01:13:39 ◼   ► story, select it and ask for it to be made funnier, it should

01:13:43 ◼   ► still do it. That's what they're saying, which I think is the

01:13:47 ◼   ► right way to go, in the same way that you could always just

01:13:51 ◼   ► open text edit and use text edit to create the instructions for

01:13:56 ◼   ► making a homemade pipe bomb, right?

01:13:58 ◼   ► Pete: Sure, totally.

01:13:59 ◼   ► Pete; You know, though, that there's going to be stories,

01:14:01 ◼   ► you know. I wrote an X-rated story about a kindergarten

01:14:06 ◼   ► teacher and look what Apple's AI engine helped me polish it

01:14:11 ◼   ► up, right? It's kind of on you, but with the image playgrounds,

01:14:14 ◼   ► it is just a prompt. I don't know.

01:14:17 ◼   ► Pete; You can type anything in there.

01:14:19 ◼   ► Pete; So I feel like, I don't know, again, Apple doesn't talk

01:14:23 ◼   ► about their internal debates, but I have to think that that

01:14:26 ◼   ► was sort of a, hmm, do we want to, do we want to even do this

01:14:31 ◼   ► and let alone announce it now or not?

01:14:32 ◼   ► Pete; Yeah, and it'll be interesting to see what happens

01:14:37 ◼   ► because there's definitely things that you can, an example I

01:14:42 ◼   ► used in one of my videos is, and this is much of what's hard

01:14:46 ◼   ► is, again, understanding the intent of the language. So

01:14:49 ◼   ► putting into image playgrounds, emoji with Hitler mustache is

01:14:53 ◼   ► probably going to result in, yeah, no, we're not doing that.

01:14:56 ◼   ► But if you did emoji, little black square above lip, is that

01:15:01 ◼   ► something that the system will recognize and say, no, no,

01:15:04 ◼   ► we're not doing that. Or will it just go ahead and, it's going

01:15:06 ◼   ► to be fascinating and you wait, there are going to be people

01:15:09 ◼   ► that are going to try to break it in any way they can to get

01:15:12 ◼   ► it to do stuff that, you know, but…

01:15:14 ◼   ► Pete; I forget the comedian, but there's a comedian who has

01:15:17 ◼   ► a great bit. It might be John Mulaney, but it doesn't matter,

01:15:21 ◼   ► but it's about the Michael Jordan Hanes commercials from

01:15:25 ◼   ► like the 90s where Jordan had a, quite frankly, sort of

01:15:29 ◼   ► Hitler-esque mustache. And they're like, Michael Jordan was

01:15:32 ◼   ► so big that Hanes didn't even say anything when he was

01:15:35 ◼   ► supporting. So I can see like, here's a picture of Michael

01:15:38 ◼   ► Jordan from 1997 Hane commercial with, give me an emoji

01:15:43 ◼   ► with a mustache like his here. And now you've backwards

01:15:46 ◼   ► engineered your prompt way into a Hitler mustache.

01:15:49 ◼   ► Pete; Right. So that's where they're going to have to battle

01:15:52 ◼   ► with stuff. And I think, and this is one thing that I believe

01:15:57 ◼   ► Craig said on your show was that they had established a bunch

01:16:01 ◼   ► of kind of principles of what are we going to let users do?

01:16:05 ◼   ► What's the system going to do? And one of the things that

01:16:08 ◼   ► they really had a big focus on according to them was that they

01:16:11 ◼   ► were going to respect the user's intent. Isn't that the way

01:16:14 ◼   ► they phrased it or something? Which, I mean, that's a big

01:16:17 ◼   ► deal. And that would suggest that maybe it will do stuff

01:16:21 ◼   ► that is unsavory if you are unsavory and that's what you

01:16:25 ◼   ► intend for it to do. But yeah.

01:16:27 ◼   ► Pete; Well, and then it raises other uncomfortable questions

01:16:31 ◼   ► for Apple because when you think of inappropriate topics,

01:16:34 ◼   ► you obviously think of stuff that would get a movie to be R

01:16:37 ◼   ► rated or X rated. You think of violence, you think of

01:16:41 ◼   ► sexuality, but then what about writing about Tiananmen Square?

01:16:46 ◼   ► It would, to me, be absolutely outrageous if they give you,

01:16:51 ◼   ► "Sorry, I can't help with that," outside mainland China for

01:16:56 ◼   ► asking for help writing a report on the Tiananmen Square

01:17:01 ◼   ► massacre. Obviously, though, if,

01:17:04 ◼   ► and when, Apple intelligence comes to mainland China, you're

01:17:07 ◼   ► obviously not going to get help asking for rewrite proofreading

01:17:13 ◼   ► help on a report about Tiananmen Square, right? There's

01:17:16 ◼   ► other topics like that that are sensitive to Apple in ways

01:17:22 ◼   ► because of their business interests in China in particular

01:17:25 ◼   ► that presumably that they're not going to, you're not going

01:17:29 ◼   ► to notice that as somebody who isn't in mainland China, but

01:17:33 ◼   ► it's something I look forward to trying as soon as I get my

01:17:36 ◼   ► hands on this?

01:17:36 ◼   ► Yeah, it'll be interesting. That's just the whole

01:17:41 ◼   ► boondoggle of AI, I suppose.

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01:19:58 ◼   ► announcements for the platforms, which I think it's fair to say

01:20:03 ◼   ► and Adam, this isn't even really a complaint, but I think it

01:20:07 ◼   ► kind of shows that the company's focus is very largely diverted

01:20:12 ◼   ► to Apple intelligence this year, that the non-Apple

01:20:16 ◼   ► intelligence features are thinner than most years. But

01:20:22 ◼   ► again, I don't know that that's a complaint. I feel like maybe

01:20:24 ◼   ► some years they sort of pile on tent pole features just for the

01:20:31 ◼   ► sake of having something to put in the keynote. I don't know.

01:20:34 ◼   ► Yeah. Some of them, I mean, I don't know how numerous they

01:20:38 ◼   ► are, but it feels like at least a few of them have been things

01:20:41 ◼   ► that people have wanted forever. So that way it was kind

01:20:45 ◼   ► of a big year, like home screen customization. Yeah. Which is

01:20:48 ◼   ► what they led with, right? They led with that. Yeah. Control

01:20:52 ◼   ► center. I think that's another big change. Control center has

01:20:55 ◼   ► been a pile of garbage to put it nicely for quite some time and

01:21:00 ◼   ► this new one promises to be much better. So. My theory with

01:21:06 ◼   ► control center is that I feel like the iPhone evolved in a

01:21:12 ◼   ► kind of curious way that I that I at least didn't notice until

01:21:20 ◼   ► recently, but in hindsight, it sort of feels like, huh. It was

01:21:24 ◼   ► sort of a slow boil there. I can't say that there was one

01:21:27 ◼   ► particular year where it switched, but the iPhone evolved

01:21:32 ◼   ► from when it debuted even Apple thinking of it like pre iPhone

01:21:39 ◼   ► phones where a phone is more like it's not part of your

01:21:42 ◼   ► personal computer life and you don't think about locking it

01:21:47 ◼   ► down. I mean, famously Steve Jobs spent tons of time and

01:21:52 ◼   ► everybody loved it. Just the slide to unlock right. It's

01:21:56 ◼   ► like this beautiful. It was a beautiful metal looking 3D

01:22:01 ◼   ► thing and it tracked the little thing that you slid to unlock

01:22:04 ◼   ► tracked your finger perfectly, but there was no passcode

01:22:09 ◼   ► right. II think even in the original iPhone, you could set a

01:22:14 ◼   ► passcode just because even yeah, even dumb phones used to

01:22:17 ◼   ► let you do that too right. You could just buy like a flip

01:22:20 ◼   ► phone and have it so that you have to type a code or

01:22:22 ◼   ► something to be able to use it, but it's clearly some default

01:22:26 ◼   ► behavior right and the assumption was that most people

01:22:30 ◼   ► would just not put a code on their phone and just slide to

01:22:33 ◼   ► unlock. That's how I carried my phone for a few years at least

01:22:36 ◼   ► and then it sort of dawned on everybody like hey all my

01:22:40 ◼   ► emails in here. I'm logged into my bank and I guess most

01:22:44 ◼   ► banking apps would make you put a pin in before touch ID and

01:22:47 ◼   ► face ID, but there was a lot of stuff in your phone that you

01:22:50 ◼   ► wouldn't want a stranger to have access to just by sliding

01:22:54 ◼   ► a thing, but we kind of lost something by locking everything

01:23:01 ◼   ► into face ID and everything and that there are things you just

01:23:04 ◼   ► kind of want to tap into your phone and just quick do and

01:23:07 ◼   ► that's sort of what control center is now. It's sort of like

01:23:10 ◼   ► the thin private version of the iPhone experience that oh, you

01:23:16 ◼   ► don't have to worry about locking people out of this. It's

01:23:17 ◼   ► just right there. Just swipe down from the top and you can

01:23:20 ◼   ► control your TV and change the volume, change the brightness,

01:23:24 ◼   ► stuff like that. It's you know as opposed to, I don't know,

01:23:30 ◼   ► it's just like conceptually heavier to go into your phone

01:23:35 ◼   ► and start launching apps to do things. It's hey, let's just do

01:23:38 ◼   ► this. The homestream customization thing. I think this

01:23:42 ◼   ► is great. I don't plan to make heavy use of it. I don't plan to

01:23:48 ◼   ► tint all of my icons in a certain color, but I totally

01:23:53 ◼   ► understand why people do and it's I mentioned it on stage

01:23:56 ◼   ► during my show like when I first got a Mac in college in the

01:24:00 ◼   ► 90s, I spent an inordinate amount of time in ResEdit just

01:24:03 ◼   ► customizing the icons for my apps and folders just for the

01:24:06 ◼   ► same reason. I just I don't know. I wanted to make my own

01:24:10 ◼   ► icons and even though I'm not a very good icon designer, it was

01:24:13 ◼   ► kind of cool to know that I did it myself and but I see people

01:24:19 ◼   ► that it's always Steve Jobs would never right. Steve Jobs

01:24:24 ◼   ► would never have allowed people to make their home screen ugly

01:24:27 ◼   ► by tinting every single icon magenta. What I don't know that

01:24:34 ◼   ► he wouldn't have because that it doesn't happen to anybody by

01:24:38 ◼   ► accident, right? It's not oh if you shake your phone, it's like

01:24:42 ◼   ► a slot machine and you know maybe you'll get a magenta

01:24:47 ◼   ► home screen. You have to do that on purpose and if that's

01:24:50 ◼   ► what you want to do, okay, so be it. So I think the complaints

01:24:54 ◼   ► that that it allows you to make your home screen ugly to me.

01:25:00 ◼   ► That's well then don't do it right. If you don't think

01:25:03 ◼   ► magenta all magenta icons are ugly, then now you can do it.

01:25:06 ◼   ► Yeah, one one parallel that made me think of it around the

01:25:11 ◼   ► same time as WWDC. I had gone to the unveil event of the new

01:25:17 ◼   ► generation of Rivian R1 vehicles and as part of the new

01:25:21 ◼   ► generation of cars and they're bringing this retroactively.

01:25:25 ◼   ► There's just ambient lighting that's been RGB controllable for

01:25:28 ◼   ► years, but it's never been user controllable and in this new

01:25:32 ◼   ► version, unlike Tesla where you can make it any garish color

01:25:35 ◼   ► you they only have. I think it's nine colors that are

01:25:38 ◼   ► acceptable to Rivian that you can select and so it's a very

01:25:41 ◼   ► specific shade of green and a very muted hue of blue and and

01:25:47 ◼   ► the designer said it's because we don't want people making

01:25:50 ◼   ► their cars pink and on the one hand there was a laugh but on

01:25:53 ◼   ► the other hand I was like if you're gonna let people

01:25:56 ◼   ► customize it, let them do whatever they want and so that's

01:25:58 ◼   ► kind of where I'm thinking here. If Apple were to say, oh,

01:26:01 ◼   ► here's the colors or here's the formats in which you can

01:26:03 ◼   ► customize your phone. Well, then it's not really customization

01:26:06 ◼   ► is it so I think this is the only way they could have done

01:26:10 ◼   ► it that I think this is a minimum basically of letting

01:26:14 ◼   ► people make it however they want. It's still fairly limited

01:26:18 ◼   ► in the grand scheme of things. You can't change the whole icon

01:26:20 ◼   ► you know shape in the way that you could with ResEdit.

01:26:25 ◼   ► Technically, there are still loopholes you can use through

01:26:27 ◼   ► Widget Smith and theme packs and using shortcuts and all

01:26:31 ◼   ► that stuff, but that's not a system level thing. That's still

01:26:33 ◼   ► a weird kind of hack around way to do it, but as a base level

01:26:37 ◼   ► customization is about as minimal as it gets and yeah,

01:26:41 ◼   ► people are gonna make it ugly, but you gotta let them do it or

01:26:44 ◼   ► let them not do it.

01:26:45 ◼   ► And I the demand is clearly there the success of Widget

01:26:50 ◼   ► Smith, the viral sensation of those TikTok videos from two

01:26:54 ◼   ► years ago or so when it first became possible to make

01:26:57 ◼   ► shortcuts with a custom icon that would launch the app so

01:27:02 ◼   ► that you more or less like creating an alias to the app so

01:27:05 ◼   ► that you could give it a custom icon. But what a huge advantage

01:27:09 ◼   ► because with the old way of creating a shortcut with a

01:27:12 ◼   ► custom icon for every app you use on your even if you only

01:27:15 ◼   ► did your first home screen, you've got to set up 16 of them,

01:27:19 ◼   ► put them in the right order. And if you get tired of the

01:27:22 ◼   ► black and white monochromatic look and you really want to go

01:27:26 ◼   ► magenta now you've got to do it all over again. Whereas this

01:27:29 ◼   ► way you just bring up the slider and say switch from black

01:27:32 ◼   ► and white to cyan or whatever color suits your mood for the

01:27:36 ◼   ► day. I think that's pretty cool. One of the demos and I

01:27:39 ◼   ► again I often even if the demo isn't particularly interesting,

01:27:44 ◼   ► I always think it's an interesting insight into what

01:27:48 ◼   ► Apple thinks is important or most used and the press hands

01:27:54 ◼   ► on thing for watch OS 10. What number are we up to? Is it 10

01:27:58 ◼   ► or 11?

01:27:59 ◼   ► 11 I think. 11. Yeah it'll be the 10th watch and 11th OS or

01:28:03 ◼   ► something. But it was pretty much, well maybe not entirely.

01:28:07 ◼   ► They did a lot of stuff with the vitals app too, but they've

01:28:10 ◼   ► really were focusing on the photos watch face, which is the

01:28:14 ◼   ► one where it picks one of your or you get to pick your photos

01:28:18 ◼   ► and make a watch face based on your kids or your spouse or

01:28:23 ◼   ► whatever pictures from your own library you want to use as a

01:28:27 ◼   ► watch face. Clearly this is a super popular watch face. I

01:28:30 ◼   ► mean they said so. They said this is like one of the most

01:28:33 ◼   ► popular watch faces. And it does, I mean again we didn't get

01:28:39 ◼   ► to do it hands on, but with the, and I don't think they're

01:28:43 ◼   ► calling it Apple intelligence, but they're definitely using

01:28:45 ◼   ► machine learning. So it's coming to all of them. Right. And I

01:28:48 ◼   ► guess the watch doesn't count for Apple intelligence because

01:28:50 ◼   ► it doesn't have a A series or M series chip. But using machine

01:28:56 ◼   ► learning to pick photos that are particularly well suited to

01:29:00 ◼   ► the aspect ratio of the watch, and then using the machine

01:29:05 ◼   ► learning to pick where in the frame would it be good to put

01:29:08 ◼   ► the digital numerals like behind the head because the

01:29:11 ◼   ► person has space on the right, or if with another picture,

01:29:14 ◼   ► it's on the left. You get all of this assistance and it was

01:29:17 ◼   ► Apple's demo, so it did work well, but it really was sort of

01:29:21 ◼   ► like having a graphic designer helping you. Oh, this is great.

01:29:24 ◼   ► And we could even put like the part of the minutes behind your

01:29:28 ◼   ► head because there's space for that and we have the depth in

01:29:31 ◼   ► the photo to do it. But if you want to customize it your own

01:29:35 ◼   ► way and make it ugly, you're still free to. It's a good mix

01:29:39 ◼   ► where automatically it tries to use machine learning to give

01:29:42 ◼   ► you an attractive Apple style version of your photos. But if

01:29:46 ◼   ► you want to make it garish, it's your watch. And that's the

01:29:51 ◼   ► way it should be. Try to encourage you to make it look

01:29:55 ◼   ► good. Allow you to make it look ugly. Yep. 100%. Let me see. I

01:30:01 ◼   ► thought that the feature and again, it's one of those things

01:30:05 ◼   ► where I would love to be in the meeting where they decided how

01:30:09 ◼   ► to demo it. The hide an app from your phone feature and what

01:30:15 ◼   ► was their example? It was Craig saying like a hairdryer app or

01:30:19 ◼   ► something like that. Like a USB. It's like an AR hair app or

01:30:23 ◼   ► something. I think. Right. Or hair kit. I don't remember.

01:30:27 ◼   ► Because everybody's mind goes to apps that that somebody,

01:30:31 ◼   ► whether you yourself might have apps you'd want to hide for

01:30:34 ◼   ► whatever reason. And you know, I'm laughing but it's you know,

01:30:38 ◼   ► could be there's all sorts of things. It could be something

01:30:43 ◼   ► that's not funny at all like a help managing an addiction or

01:30:48 ◼   ► something like that right. It's not just about like married

01:30:52 ◼   ► people with the dating apps or something like that that you'd

01:30:56 ◼   ► want to hide from your spouse, but it could be something like

01:30:58 ◼   ► a medical type thing. I thought that was pretty clever and it.

01:31:05 ◼   ► They showed it. I feel like in the keynote people were like

01:31:08 ◼   ► well, but if they put it in a folder called hidden apps,

01:31:12 ◼   ► isn't that where everybody will go? But the key is that the

01:31:16 ◼   ► hidden apps folder has a generic icon that doesn't show what's

01:31:22 ◼   ► inside it. So yes, you'll be able to go to somebody's phone

01:31:25 ◼   ► and and in their app library, there is going to be a hidden

01:31:29 ◼   ► apps folder, but you won't be able to get into it because

01:31:32 ◼   ► your face won't do the face ID unlock and the icon for hidden

01:31:37 ◼   ► apps isn't going to give you a hint as to which apps are

01:31:39 ◼   ► inside hidden. It's you know. Moreover, it's it's there by

01:31:42 ◼   ► default. So right. And if you don't have anything in there,

01:31:45 ◼   ► it's still there. Yeah, exactly. So you you you don't know

01:31:48 ◼   ► what's in there. It's sort of like I think it's generally

01:31:51 ◼   ► considered best practice now, but if if like you go to your

01:31:55 ◼   ► account page on a site and it's it says email, here's your

01:31:59 ◼   ► email address password in it. It might show bullets, but the

01:32:04 ◼   ► bullets don't correspond to the length of your password like it

01:32:08 ◼   ► always shows eight bullets whether your passwords 20

01:32:10 ◼   ► characters long or thirteen characters long. It just shows

01:32:14 ◼   ► eight bullets so that it doesn't give you a hint what's in

01:32:16 ◼   ► there right. Yeah. Seems like that sort of thing, but a cool

01:32:20 ◼   ► feature. The mail categorization seems a little late. Frankly

01:32:27 ◼   ► given the big big time big time if they can use Apple

01:32:31 ◼   ► intelligence to do it more intelligently, then that's

01:32:34 ◼   ► that's cool. I think the surfacing of kind of like

01:32:38 ◼   ► contextually relevant stuff is kind of neat. So like yeah when

01:32:41 ◼   ► it knows that you're on you're headed to the airport or it's

01:32:44 ◼   ► the day of your flight. It resurfaces those emails. That's

01:32:47 ◼   ► cool. But yeah, the basic categorization thing. I mean

01:32:50 ◼   ► welcome to mailbox from 2013 or whenever that was. Alright.

01:32:55 ◼   ► Wasn't that that was the app Google bought everybody loved

01:32:58 ◼   ► it and then it just disappeared. I think so right that was yeah

01:33:01 ◼   ► inbox and then yeah the first one was bought by Dropbox. I

01:33:05 ◼   ► think that was the one that popularized it was that one.

01:33:08 ◼   ► Oh, I forget email. I don't remember mailbox. Yeah. So

01:33:14 ◼   ► Dropbox purchased it back in 2014. Never to be heard of

01:33:20 ◼   ► again. Yep killed it a year later. Yeah. I'd never thought

01:33:24 ◼   ► of it, but I do have to say it's one of those ideas where

01:33:27 ◼   ► once I heard Fedor or whoever said it on the in the keynote,

01:33:31 ◼   ► I was like, oh, that's brilliant. I wish I've had that

01:33:34 ◼   ► for 15 years is in the list of emails. Don't just show me the

01:33:38 ◼   ► first two lines of the email. Show me a two line summary of

01:33:42 ◼   ► the email because so many emails the first two lines

01:33:46 ◼   ► aren't helpful at all. It's so true. I've been irritated by

01:33:51 ◼   ► that, but it never occurred to me that it's a problem that

01:33:53 ◼   ► could be solved. I'm very much looking forward to that. I'm

01:33:58 ◼   ► always a little surprised when Apple Mail is late to get

01:34:01 ◼   ► certain features simply because I know how much Apple

01:34:05 ◼   ► institutionally runs on mail. They are a very very heavily

01:34:09 ◼   ► email driven company internally. So when and they all

01:34:14 ◼   ► do use Apple Mail, it's always surprising to me when things

01:34:19 ◼   ► like this are late. I love using my main mail is still on

01:34:23 ◼   ► Gmail and the main reason why is that using Mime stream on

01:34:28 ◼   ► my Mac, I get product or categorization of the email and

01:34:32 ◼   ► it is such a game changer to have all your sales receipts

01:34:38 ◼   ► and all the **** you get every time you buy something and

01:34:41 ◼   ► even if you uncheck the box to send you promotional emails,

01:34:44 ◼   ► they still send you some. It's like like send me no

01:34:48 ◼   ► promotional emails means in the in modern ecommerce. Okay,

01:34:53 ◼   ► maybe we'll send you fewer promotional emails, but having

01:34:56 ◼   ► them out of my main inbox so that my main inbox is really

01:34:59 ◼   ► just email from people emailing me is like it's like time

01:35:04 ◼   ► travel to when I first got email in the 90s and email was

01:35:08 ◼   ► nothing but joy like oh, I got new email. What is it? What I

01:35:12 ◼   ► get? It's like getting a present every day. I love it,

01:35:15 ◼   ► but it's hard hard not to say finally to that one. Let me see

01:35:20 ◼   ► here from my notes. What else anything else stood out to you?

01:35:23 ◼   ► I guess we should do photos on that's a big deal. Yeah. Have

01:35:27 ◼   ► you looked at it in beta? I have of course it's the

01:35:31 ◼   ► developer beta under NDA so I haven't used it, but if I had

01:35:33 ◼   ► used it, I might say that you do. It's a it's an adjustment,

01:35:39 ◼   ► but I think it's pretty well laid out. There will be some

01:35:42 ◼   ► people that will be irritated if they're heavy albums users

01:35:45 ◼   ► cuz they've moved albums that are user created to basically

01:35:48 ◼   ► the very bottom of the page and there's there's some weird

01:35:52 ◼   ► stuff like for example when you open up the app half of the

01:35:55 ◼   ► display shows the typical grid you're used to and half of it

01:35:58 ◼   ► shows the smart albums. The idea being that they're more in

01:36:01 ◼   ► your face. You're more privy to actually look at them, but

01:36:05 ◼   ► there's weird kind of UX stuff. It's a little strange. So if

01:36:08 ◼   ► you go to select multiple photos, you can't do that when

01:36:12 ◼   ► half of the grid is on the screen. You have to actually

01:36:14 ◼   ► pull the grid down so that it's all photos. Then the select

01:36:17 ◼   ► tool comes up and that might change over the beta. There's

01:36:20 ◼   ► kind of weird stuff like that, but in general, I think it's a

01:36:24 ◼   ► lot better. Those smart albums have been there for years and

01:36:28 ◼   ► they're pretty cool. I mean that was one thing that you

01:36:30 ◼   ► know, Craig. I think it maybe it was even on your show was

01:36:32 ◼   ► like well. we added the pets and people one last year. Oh

01:36:35 ◼   ► yeah, but a lot of people a lot of people think these are all

01:36:37 ◼   ► new. They're not. I mean they've been there for a long

01:36:39 ◼   ► time. We're just adding more and more of them and getting

01:36:41 ◼   ► better and then I'm really interested in the optics of

01:36:47 ◼   ► improved search because that's something that when you have

01:36:50 ◼   ► large libraries, it's just miserable. Apple's always done

01:36:55 ◼   ► that well not always, but over the last several years, they've

01:36:57 ◼   ► been better at OCR stuff works really well just because of

01:37:00 ◼   ► that being so capable on device, but object recognition.

01:37:04 ◼   ► It's not bad, but you open something like Google photos

01:37:07 ◼   ► who trains probably by stealing all of your photos and and and

01:37:11 ◼   ► it's really good. So when I need to actually find something

01:37:14 ◼   ► I'll open it in Google photos rather than Apple photos and

01:37:17 ◼   ► hopefully that'll change to the point where if the Apple

01:37:21 ◼   ► intelligence stuff is to be believed, you can say Megan

01:37:24 ◼   ► when she was wearing the spotted dress on Tuesday back

01:37:27 ◼   ► in Rome get that hyper specific and that will be great. We're

01:37:31 ◼   ► not just a green sweater, but a green fuzzy sweater. Oh my god

01:37:34 ◼   ► that it's actually the picture I was thinking of. I'll say that

01:37:37 ◼   ► that's the sort of feature that I continue even before WWDC

01:37:41 ◼   ► just in regular life and talking to family members and

01:37:45 ◼   ► stuff. People have no idea that you can search Apple photos for

01:37:50 ◼   ► stuff like that. They really don't that you can and and that

01:37:53 ◼   ► it works pretty well for a lot of things certainly works well

01:37:56 ◼   ► for people once you've tagged some people, but that you can

01:37:59 ◼   ► do things like say a cheeseburger and if you have got

01:38:04 ◼   ► some pictures in your library of like cheeseburgers, it'll

01:38:09 ◼   ► find them and now whether it finds every single one. I think

01:38:12 ◼   ► Apple is not at the state of the art of that, but it's pretty

01:38:15 ◼   ► useful and when I do it, it's really it blows people's

01:38:19 ◼   ► minds if they're not aware that you could search for stuff like

01:38:22 ◼   ► that in photos and I definitely think they're doing the right

01:38:25 ◼   ► thing because I probably organize my photos a lot more

01:38:31 ◼   ► than the typical user does, but my photos in my library are

01:38:35 ◼   ► largely uncategorized, unalbumed and it's really just a

01:38:40 ◼   ► big pile. So doing more stuff automatically is going to be a

01:38:45 ◼   ► help and I and I agree though that by pushing your manually

01:38:49 ◼   ► organized folders or albums, whatever you call them down, it

01:38:53 ◼   ► is a small price of convenience cost to the diligent users who

01:38:59 ◼   ► really do dutifully put all of their photos into albums

01:39:03 ◼   ► manually as they shoot them. Yeah. Well, I think it's a

01:39:06 ◼   ► really good way to surface features like you just said one

01:39:10 ◼   ► of the problems that I think iOS and iPad OS in particular

01:39:13 ◼   ► have had over the last few years is that they have become

01:39:15 ◼   ► so hyper capable, but on the surface, they still wanna be

01:39:19 ◼   ► approachable and simplistic to everyone that however comes at

01:39:22 ◼   ► the expense of people that aren't watching the keynotes

01:39:25 ◼   ► and reading your blog and other people not knowing that things

01:39:28 ◼   ► exist. So one example is when you open up the photos app and

01:39:32 ◼   ► hit the search button now before it was just a random field

01:39:35 ◼   ► that you could enter text into and like you just said people

01:39:38 ◼   ► didn't know you could search for a cheeseburger or for a dog

01:39:41 ◼   ► and now it actually shows you suggestions, which is great. So

01:39:45 ◼   ► it says like solely who's my cat in 2023 last month with

01:39:50 ◼   ► Campbell who's my brother. That is a it's just a really simple

01:39:53 ◼   ► visual cue that lets people know. Hey, you can type

01:39:57 ◼   ► whatever you want in here and we'll try to find it and I think

01:40:00 ◼   ► iOS this year in particular got a lot more of those subtle kind

01:40:05 ◼   ► of pokes of hey, this is a thing that you might not be able

01:40:08 ◼   ► to know that you can do, but actually you can. Yeah, it's

01:40:11 ◼   ► cool. Exposing and I think that's the sort of that's the

01:40:14 ◼   ► whole thinking behind this photos redesign is you know,

01:40:17 ◼   ► let's surface these smart albums and and make a

01:40:22 ◼   ► collection from your nephew's birthday party last weekend.

01:40:26 ◼   ► Let's just assume that that that's an event you'd

01:40:28 ◼   ► categorized into an album and push it to you. So you see oh

01:40:32 ◼   ► here here are all the photos I have from that, including the

01:40:35 ◼   ► ones shot by other family members that I downloaded from

01:40:39 ◼   ► messages when they shared them to me and messages and put them

01:40:41 ◼   ► in there very very cool. I love I have to mention this as one

01:40:46 ◼   ► of my absolute top features of the year is the whole I guess

01:40:51 ◼   ► they're calling math notes, but it's more than just in the

01:40:55 ◼   ► notes app and then the calculator app that's finally on

01:40:59 ◼   ► on the iPad, but you can type math anywhere in a text field

01:41:04 ◼   ► and get the answer. So in messages you could type 96

01:41:09 ◼   ► divided by twelve equals and it'll auto complete eight as

01:41:15 ◼   ► the answer and it's just like auto completing a word. You just

01:41:19 ◼   ► hit the space bar to get it and the whole math that simple

01:41:23 ◼   ► whether it's simple arithmetic or more complex notation like

01:41:27 ◼   ► they showed in the notes app. You can do it and that's super

01:41:31 ◼   ► cool cuz that's something the computers. It's like the the

01:41:34 ◼   ► first thing in the 60s when people heard about. Hey, you

01:41:38 ◼   ► ever hear of these things called computers. They're really

01:41:40 ◼   ► they're good at math. It's kinda awesome and it kinda

01:41:43 ◼   ► makes you wonder why you haven't been able to again.

01:41:45 ◼   ► Again. It's one of these features where it's like why

01:41:47 ◼   ► haven't we been able to do this forever right computers are

01:41:50 ◼   ► really good at math. Yeah. No, it's super handy and it's

01:41:54 ◼   ► available on all platforms too. That's not just an iPad thing,

01:41:56 ◼   ► which is great and the calculator app in general has

01:42:00 ◼   ► gotten huge improvements. Now you can see the actual the the

01:42:04 ◼   ► math that you typed out before you hit the equals button. It'll

01:42:08 ◼   ► show you the solution. There's now a log of all of the stuff

01:42:11 ◼   ► you've entered. It's just oh, it's a way better. So that's

01:42:14 ◼   ► good long and I'm. Longtime friends with James Thompson,

01:42:19 ◼   ► author of Peacock and I think Peacock will be fine as a truly

01:42:25 ◼   ► excellent calculator. That's always going to go way further

01:42:29 ◼   ► than Apple's ever willing to go in terms of customization.

01:42:32 ◼   ► It's always mixed feelings, though when you're friends with

01:42:35 ◼   ► somebody who's been Sherlock even to a minor degree right.

01:42:39 ◼   ► We can all complain that it seems very strange that the

01:42:44 ◼   ► iPad went 13 years without a built-in calculator app. It's

01:42:49 ◼   ► really does seem curious, but if you make a calculator app

01:42:53 ◼   ► that kind of was good news for a long time, but I'll just say

01:42:58 ◼   ► I've I ran into this issue two mother's days ago. I don't

01:43:04 ◼   ► know it wasn't this year. So it's either last year or the

01:43:07 ◼   ► year before, but we got my wife's mom a new iPad and. She

01:43:14 ◼   ► didn't need a lot of help setting up. She had an iPad

01:43:16 ◼   ► before she just upgraded from the old one, but she was when

01:43:20 ◼   ► you get a new device is when you ask questions of your son

01:43:24 ◼   ► in law of things. Hey she she not knowing that this is like a

01:43:30 ◼   ► meme in our circles. Why doesn't the iPad have a

01:43:32 ◼   ► calculator? She asked me why my phone my iPhone has a

01:43:35 ◼   ► calculator and she uses it all the time. She does tips and

01:43:39 ◼   ► people use calculators a lot. I asked about an iPad calculator

01:43:44 ◼   ► app and I looked at the app store for calculator apps and I

01:43:49 ◼   ► eventually send her to the free version of but there are I

01:43:55 ◼   ► don't know 150 million calculator apps in the app

01:43:59 ◼   ► store. It's there's a lot of them and none of them make me

01:44:04 ◼   ► feel good. There are so bad. There are some of them are

01:44:09 ◼   ► really bad. They all have ads because it's this race to the

01:44:13 ◼   ► bottom and because there really are a zillion that are free

01:44:17 ◼   ► with ads. There's not a lot of room for a paid version and my

01:44:22 ◼   ► mother-in-law isn't thinking of a calculator app is the thing

01:44:25 ◼   ► she should pay three or $4 for and I know again. I'm friends

01:44:29 ◼   ► with James. I pay for P Calc happily so, but it's people

01:44:34 ◼   ► don't think of a calculator is a thing they should pay for so

01:44:37 ◼   ► it's it is good, but it's also really interesting that they

01:44:42 ◼   ► did what Fedor said for years. We don't wanna bring a

01:44:45 ◼   ► calculator to the iPad unless we can bring something new to

01:44:48 ◼   ► it. They brought a lot new to it. It's really interesting.

01:44:51 ◼   ► They did if you will permit me to complain about one thing

01:44:54 ◼   ► that I noticed in trying to search for a good scanning app.

01:44:58 ◼   ► I like I know you can scan documents in iOS and it's fine.

01:45:02 ◼   ► What I don't love about it is that you've gotta do it a weird

01:45:07 ◼   ► way, not a way that goes with my flow. I would much prefer to

01:45:10 ◼   ► open a camera effectively that scans you know a photo into my

01:45:14 ◼   ► image library. Normally you have to go through notes and

01:45:17 ◼   ► create a note and then once you get into notes, you can say hit

01:45:20 ◼   ► the little share sheet and then you can send it to files. You

01:45:22 ◼   ► can't save it to your photo library. I get it. I understand

01:45:25 ◼   ► the flow. They don't wanna jam up your photo library with but

01:45:28 ◼   ► sometimes I just want an image of a of a scan. One thing that

01:45:33 ◼   ► is been very frustrating and I think it's maybe why you

01:45:36 ◼   ► weren't able to find a good free calculator app because I

01:45:38 ◼   ► have no doubt that there is one that's out there and doesn't

01:45:40 ◼   ► have ads but the app store search is just so abominable

01:45:44 ◼   ► because now it's all ranked searching based on who pays for

01:45:47 ◼   ► surfacing all that stuff and keyword jamming and so it's

01:45:52 ◼   ► it's a really unfortunate that the discoverability on the app

01:45:55 ◼   ► store is so poor that it you would be hard pressed to find a

01:45:59 ◼   ► free calculator app without in-app purchases and without

01:46:02 ◼   ► ads but I guarantee there's one out there. You just never find

01:46:05 ◼   ► it because the app store search sucks. And you can't you can't

01:46:09 ◼   ► search with the natural language. No calculator app

01:46:13 ◼   ► without ads and without in-app purchases. That's what we need

01:46:15 ◼   ► Apple intelligence for the app store. Alright. Alright. Let me

01:46:19 ◼   ► blow your mind, Quinn. You can go to the files app. On your

01:46:24 ◼   ► phone and go up to the little dot dot dot menu and the second

01:46:28 ◼   ► item down or third item down scan documents. Hey, there you

01:46:33 ◼   ► go. That does. I just learned that about 2 weeks ago on

01:46:36 ◼   ► threads where somebody was complaining. Somebody was

01:46:39 ◼   ► complaining about the exact same thing you just mentioned. I

01:46:41 ◼   ► only ever did it in the notes app and it seems very hard to

01:46:44 ◼   ► get them out of the notes app. It does. But you can actually

01:46:48 ◼   ► do it right in the files app and so here I am telling you

01:46:51 ◼   ► how good the files app is. There you go. You still can't

01:46:55 ◼   ► save it as an image without saving it too as a PDF in your

01:46:59 ◼   ► file browser and then so but that is better. I will start

01:47:02 ◼   ► using that. That is much improved. Thank you. Yeah.

01:47:05 ◼   ► There you go. Tip of the day. We might as well. We gotta talk

01:47:08 ◼   ► about the iPad though cuz you've you've it's been a topic

01:47:11 ◼   ► of conversation. You've reviewed the what how would you

01:47:16 ◼   ► summarize your your M4 iPad Pro review? Well, I sang praises of

01:47:21 ◼   ► the hardware. It's the best. I think it's it's seriously the

01:47:25 ◼   ► best device they've ever made full stop. It's incredible.

01:47:29 ◼   ► True as well. Yeah. And it's it's unbelievably good. And I

01:47:33 ◼   ► think that's exact and I think people recognize that even

01:47:37 ◼   ► especially when they see it like when you it's thin. They

01:47:40 ◼   ► keep telling you it's thin. They had that that controversial

01:47:43 ◼   ► ad that the whole point of it was to emphasize that it's so

01:47:47 ◼   ► thin. It's you need a two-ton hydraulic press to make

01:47:50 ◼   ► something that then then you hold it in your hand and look

01:47:53 ◼   ► at the screen and it's wow. This is amazing, but I think

01:47:56 ◼   ► it's the it's this weird. It's the fact that the hardware is

01:48:02 ◼   ► probably the best computing device they've ever made full

01:48:04 ◼   ► stop that makes the people who want iPad OS to be

01:48:07 ◼   ► fundamentally different enraged. Yeah and II am I

01:48:13 ◼   ► wouldn't put myself in that group in the sense that there's

01:48:16 ◼   ► a lot of people that are pushing for the iPad to run

01:48:20 ◼   ► virtualized Mac OS or to dual boot or for there to be a Mac

01:48:24 ◼   ► OS icon. You can open on the iPad and have some sort of file

01:48:28 ◼   ► syncing between the iPad environment and the Mac

01:48:30 ◼   ► environment. I don't want that. I don't even want a kind of

01:48:34 ◼   ► parallel style environment where you can open Mac apps in

01:48:38 ◼   ► the kind of iPad environment without you seeing the Mac

01:48:42 ◼   ► underpinnings. I don't want that either. I am truly a fan of

01:48:45 ◼   ► iPad OS and that's what makes it so frustrating is year after

01:48:50 ◼   ► year. It's like death by a thousand paper cuts. There's

01:48:53 ◼   ► not there's not much that iPad users are asking for, but what

01:48:59 ◼   ► we're asking for just never seems to come and it's just

01:49:03 ◼   ► rudimentary basic stuff with the files app being fairly

01:49:07 ◼   ► hyperlimited tagging or being able to change the extension,

01:49:10 ◼   ► which you can't do of any file name. Just basic stuff that any

01:49:15 ◼   ► file browser since forever has been able to do and then you

01:49:19 ◼   ► augment that with limitations in multitasking because of

01:49:23 ◼   ► stage manager and they're just artificial limitations. I mean

01:49:27 ◼   ► this thing's running an M4. So one of my favorite examples is

01:49:30 ◼   ► and this even counts when you're using a huge external

01:49:33 ◼   ► display. So I've run my iPad on this 27 inch Apple Studio

01:49:39 ◼   ► display. You can only have four windows open at any given time.

01:49:43 ◼   ► That's the maximum limit and there's tons of room for more,

01:49:47 ◼   ► but you can only have four and if you choose to open up

01:49:50 ◼   ► another window either in a new app or maybe in an app that you

01:49:54 ◼   ► already have open, you just want to open another window. It

01:49:56 ◼   ► will at random just close one of those windows and the only

01:50:00 ◼   ► way to get it back is to resummon it through the app

01:50:03 ◼   ► environment like it's just bananas and so it's just small

01:50:08 ◼   ► stuff like this that individually it's not that big

01:50:12 ◼   ► of a deal, but in aggregate it really makes for true

01:50:16 ◼   ► limitation and this is not limitation in the sense of I

01:50:19 ◼   ► want the iPad to be a Mac. It's limitation in the sense of I

01:50:22 ◼   ► want an iPad to do a thing that I know the iPad should be able

01:50:25 ◼   ► to do, but it can't and they don't need to change. I I iPad

01:50:29 ◼   ► OS. They don't need to make it feel like a Mac. They just need

01:50:32 ◼   ► to add some of this basic stuff that frankly should have been

01:50:36 ◼   ► there for a decade now. Yeah, you posted last month. I guess

01:50:41 ◼   ► it was when you were first testing the new iPad Pro. It

01:50:46 ◼   ► was like a 3 minute video. You posted the threads. I don't know

01:50:49 ◼   ► if you posted it elsewhere, but just sort of explaining your

01:50:52 ◼   ► frustration as to what ought to be a very simple thing. How do I

01:50:58 ◼   ► get I already have an app a window open for I forget which

01:51:01 ◼   ► app you were using was it notes. I think it may have been

01:51:03 ◼   ► craft, which is a third party notes app. Yeah. Okay. But it's

01:51:07 ◼   ► it's you've got a window. You've got your iPad connected

01:51:09 ◼   ► to a display a studio display and you just want to open

01:51:14 ◼   ► another window for the same app. Yeah. Shouldn't be hard and

01:51:18 ◼   ► it shouldn't be hard and you said you've been using Apple

01:51:21 ◼   ► platforms for 25 years. You're pretty familiar with them. This

01:51:25 ◼   ► really is your job explaining things like this and again. It

01:51:30 ◼   ► comes back to intuit as a verb. You could not intuit how to do

01:51:36 ◼   ► it and I'm watching the video and I've I'm in the same

01:51:39 ◼   ► racket, including the sub racket of complaining about

01:51:43 ◼   ► limitations of iPad OS and I'm sitting here thinking I'm

01:51:47 ◼   ► stumped too and you're like what if I hit these the three

01:51:50 ◼   ► little dots up here and I'm like yeah, that's probably it.

01:51:53 ◼   ► No that wasn't it. I was like. Oh, I thought he had it and

01:51:56 ◼   ► then I remember the first time I watched your video like three

01:51:59 ◼   ► times cuz I was like this is so succinct at explaining the

01:52:05 ◼   ► frustrations that people are talking about and but it's like

01:52:08 ◼   ► the first time I watched it. I remember looking down at the

01:52:12 ◼   ► little bar telling me how far for the video. I'm like. Oh,

01:52:15 ◼   ► he's not even close to finding the answer to this yet right and

01:52:18 ◼   ► I followed it up on threads with my comment was this is

01:52:21 ◼   ► just command end on a Mac right and it is and it is and and one

01:52:26 ◼   ► of the the leading kind of dissenting arguments on that

01:52:30 ◼   ► post was well, you're trying to make this behave like a Mac.

01:52:34 ◼   ► It's not a Mac. Stop trying to treat it like one and I'm like

01:52:36 ◼   ► I'm just trying to open a window man. I'm not trying to

01:52:39 ◼   ► make it like a Mac. I understand that they're

01:52:41 ◼   ► inherently different platforms, but it's not intuitive. I

01:52:44 ◼   ► couldn't give my grandmother an iPad and she would figure out

01:52:48 ◼   ► how to open up a window on a Mac sooner cuz she'd be like

01:52:51 ◼   ► hmm. Let's look at crab. No, it's not there. What about

01:52:54 ◼   ► file? Oh yeah. File new window. There you go and on on iPad OS.

01:52:59 ◼   ► It's some arbitrary. You've gotta drag the icon out of the

01:53:02 ◼   ► dock which yeah, but you've gotta do it only in stage

01:53:05 ◼   ► manager cuz if you do it in the standard mode, then it enters

01:53:07 ◼   ► jiggle mode right. Just all these behaviors that make no

01:53:11 ◼   ► sense and aren't consistent with between themselves. All of

01:53:14 ◼   ► the things convenient or they're not intuitive. It's like a

01:53:17 ◼   ► double whammy right and it it's it's like they've somehow

01:53:23 ◼   ► painted themselves into a corner with some of these

01:53:27 ◼   ► features with the way iPad OS works that I and I feel I don't

01:53:32 ◼   ► know I'm mixing metaphors here, but it's like they've painted

01:53:34 ◼   ► themselves into a corner and blindfolded themselves so that

01:53:38 ◼   ► they can't see that they're painted in a corner and it's.

01:53:43 ◼   ► I had that 3 minute video just exemplifies that there is no

01:53:47 ◼   ► easy solution. It's not oh, I see how the the whole thing

01:53:53 ◼   ► Apple should do is they should just do blank and then Quinn's

01:53:56 ◼   ► problem that he describes goes away. It's it's deeper than

01:54:00 ◼   ► that, but because it's deeper, I feel like collectively Apple's

01:54:04 ◼   ► just pretending it's not a problem right and and then you

01:54:07 ◼   ► have different modal kind of environments that conflict with

01:54:11 ◼   ► one another. so one of the problems that I found out and I

01:54:14 ◼   ► didn't even realize it when I made this video was that the

01:54:17 ◼   ► studio display to which the iPad was outputting runs stage

01:54:21 ◼   ► manager all external displays now on when connected to an

01:54:25 ◼   ► iPad run stage manager, but you can still run the windowing and

01:54:29 ◼   ► multitasking environment on the iPad in either stage manager

01:54:34 ◼   ► or the old split view. So I was running stage manager on the

01:54:38 ◼   ► external display and split view on the iPad. Unbeknownst to me,

01:54:42 ◼   ► they're completely separate from one another and you can go

01:54:45 ◼   ► into control center on the iPad and turn stage manager on and

01:54:49 ◼   ► if you do, then you do get window interactions more

01:54:52 ◼   ► similar to what you'd have on a Mac, but the fact that it

01:54:55 ◼   ► wasn't turned on by default and I didn't even know there was no

01:54:58 ◼   ► obvious indicator that hey you're actually running two

01:55:01 ◼   ► completely different windowing environments on each display.

01:55:05 ◼   ► Right. It was almost like they were incompatible with one

01:55:08 ◼   ► another because they are because split view is this old

01:55:11 ◼   ► archaic windowing interface of yesteryear. That's pretty good

01:55:14 ◼   ► for touch, but not really very good for a keyboard and mouse

01:55:17 ◼   ► and so we bring stage manager to help with that, but let's

01:55:20 ◼   ► not get rid of the old way cuz some people still like

01:55:22 ◼   ► multitasking that way and so it honestly feels kind of like

01:55:25 ◼   ► Windows product where you've got seven or eight old kind of

01:55:31 ◼   ► somewhat deprecated, but not really cuz some people still

01:55:34 ◼   ► use them environments that don't really work with one

01:55:36 ◼   ► another, but kinda sometimes they do, but only in this

01:55:39 ◼   ► specific way. That's not obvious to you and then you

01:55:42 ◼   ► enter you end up with a product that is neither intuitive or

01:55:46 ◼   ► simple to use and also not powerful because they're trying

01:55:51 ◼   ► to keep it simple while actually making it very complex

01:55:55 ◼   ► and so I think there needs to be a fundamental rethinking of

01:55:59 ◼   ► iPad OS. I'm not saying turn it into the Mac at all. I'm just

01:56:02 ◼   ► basically saying let's go back to the core. Go back to the

01:56:04 ◼   ► springboard. We've got a home screen. How can we make this

01:56:08 ◼   ► powerful and capable for the people that want that while

01:56:11 ◼   ► making sure that that's out of the way and simple for grandma

01:56:14 ◼   ► that doesn't intend to use that at all and maybe the answer is

01:56:17 ◼   ► you put some switch and control center. That's like a pro mode

01:56:20 ◼   ► that enters more of a desktop class UI that still looks like

01:56:24 ◼   ► an iPad, but has more windowing features and capability that

01:56:28 ◼   ► you might wanna use if you were interested in that kind of

01:56:31 ◼   ► environment, but they've gotta do something cuz every year

01:56:35 ◼   ► they keep adding a thing of oh and they did it again this

01:56:38 ◼   ► year. They added this new little menu bar thing. I forget

01:56:40 ◼   ► what it's even called, but yeah, the the concept of the

01:56:45 ◼   ► hamburger menu. They're like we know a hamburger menu is not a

01:56:47 ◼   ► really good solution. It's designed for touch and so now

01:56:50 ◼   ► you can put some of your most common menu items that you used

01:56:53 ◼   ► to have to go into the hamburger menu. Now it's in

01:56:55 ◼   ► this kind of floating menu bar, but it's not a menu bar in the

01:56:59 ◼   ► traditional sense and nobody that's using it thinks it's a

01:57:02 ◼   ► menu bar and and and there's not sub options in that. So it's

01:57:06 ◼   ► just another thing that convulates the OS without

01:57:09 ◼   ► really addressing any of the real problems. It's quite

01:57:12 ◼   ► frustrating. Yeah. I I I was just discussing this with the

01:57:19 ◼   ► just by coincidence, but I think it's cuz everybody because

01:57:21 ◼   ► the new iPad pros just came out. Everybody just sort of

01:57:24 ◼   ► resurfaced their frustrations and it's just made it a topic

01:57:28 ◼   ► of conversation right now and until last week, there was hope

01:57:32 ◼   ► I did not think that iPad OS was going to get a major

01:57:36 ◼   ► rethink this year, but the people who really wanted to

01:57:39 ◼   ► were like maybe they've one month after unveiling the new

01:57:43 ◼   ► hardware. They're going to unveil a radical rethinking of

01:57:46 ◼   ► the operating system. I was like don't hold your breath.

01:57:49 ◼   ► But there there was a guy who was at Xerox for a long time in

01:57:53 ◼   ► the 70s and then he was at Apple during like their first

01:57:57 ◼   ► heyday of the original Macintosh years into the 90s

01:57:59 ◼   ► named Larry Tesla and he died just a few years ago, but a

01:58:04 ◼   ► real real Titan in the field of sort of defining the modern

01:58:11 ◼   ► graphical user interface and sort of humanizing computer

01:58:15 ◼   ► interfaces and his big thing was not having modes that modes

01:58:19 ◼   ► were bad. In fact, famously, he even had a custom license plate

01:58:23 ◼   ► called no modes was his license plate in California and. It's

01:58:29 ◼   ► like you can say no modes, but I think if Larry Tesla were

01:58:32 ◼   ► still around even he would admit that there were always

01:58:35 ◼   ► edge cases where okay, here's an edge case where yes, you kind

01:58:38 ◼   ► of have to have a mode for blank, but that is a general

01:58:42 ◼   ► rule of thumb. You should eliminate modes because modes

01:58:46 ◼   ► just aren't intuitive and they're not the way people

01:58:48 ◼   ► think, but the iPad is all about modes like you said that

01:58:53 ◼   ► you can have the iPad itself in the non stage manager mode

01:58:58 ◼   ► while it's connected to a display that isn't stage

01:59:01 ◼   ► manager and you get two entirely different interaction

01:59:06 ◼   ► models between windows on the two at the same time and it's

01:59:10 ◼   ► very difficult to explain how you switch between the two

01:59:13 ◼   ► like why can I make the iPad use either, but I can't on the

01:59:17 ◼   ► studio display the studio display only support stage

01:59:21 ◼   ► manager. Why I don't know. It's just the way it is. Yeah. Yep.

01:59:26 ◼   ► So it's one of those things that again. I'm I'm not asking

01:59:30 ◼   ► for Apple to completely redo iPad OS. I think it's so much

01:59:34 ◼   ► of what makes the iPad great is the way that it's been designed

01:59:39 ◼   ► it like the iPad has been a success for a reason. It's not

01:59:42 ◼   ► a mistake. It's not the issue is that they are trying to

01:59:48 ◼   ► suggest that this is a legitimate pro product. There

01:59:51 ◼   ► are pro apps available for it. They're pushing Final Cut Pro.

01:59:54 ◼   ► This new version of Final Cut Pro is amazing. They have

01:59:56 ◼   ► logic. They're trying to really argue that this is a pro

02:00:00 ◼   ► platform and yet they're hesitant to bring features that

02:00:04 ◼   ► would make it so much more convenient and likely to be

02:00:08 ◼   ► used by pros and so it's one of those you can't really have it

02:00:11 ◼   ► both ways. Either it's a simple limited really good product.

02:00:15 ◼   ► It's great for reading news and watching content and browsing

02:00:18 ◼   ► the web and doing short emails or it's a powerful machine and

02:00:24 ◼   ► it can do all this stuff and they kind of want it to be both

02:00:27 ◼   ► which I think it can be but not without creating and I don't

02:00:31 ◼   ► know if this is a different mode or a different environment

02:00:34 ◼   ► or at least some sort of kind of like bringing some of the

02:00:38 ◼   ► features that you know you can't just say that oh it's

02:00:42 ◼   ► powerful and it can do anything you want but then when you hit

02:00:45 ◼   ► a limitation and you go well it's just an iPad. I mean, what

02:00:47 ◼   ► do you want it to be a Mac? You can't have it both ways. You

02:00:50 ◼   ► gotta pick your lane, right? So, yeah. Well, till next year.

02:00:58 ◼   ► As we say every year, maybe, maybe next year. I can't let

02:01:04 ◼   ► this show just good that we didn't record Friday but I do

02:01:09 ◼   ► want to talk about the Apple's sort of bummer. The other that

02:01:15 ◼   ► shoe that dropped on Friday was the announcement that Apple

02:01:20 ◼   ► Intelligence and iPhone mirroring and the new share

02:01:24 ◼   ► place screen sharing features are not coming to the EU when

02:01:30 ◼   ► they come to the rest of the world. Now, none of those, none

02:01:33 ◼   ► of those features are available to anybody yet but apparently,

02:01:37 ◼   ► it may and literally while you and I are talking here on

02:01:40 ◼   ► Monday afternoon, the betas might be out. Supposedly, the

02:01:43 ◼   ► iPhone mirroring and screen the share play screen sharing are

02:01:47 ◼   ► coming in developer beta twos which are supposed to come out

02:01:50 ◼   ► today should be out by the time everybody's listening to this

02:01:54 ◼   ► but will not be out even to users of the beta operating

02:01:57 ◼   ► systems in the EU and Apple Intelligence is postponed

02:02:02 ◼   ► indefinitely there even though it's also postponed for

02:02:06 ◼   ► everybody else too and why? Well, because of uncertainty

02:02:10 ◼   ► around the DMA. Needless to say, people have thoughts. I'm

02:02:17 ◼   ► curious what your take is. II have a take that I'll I'll

02:02:20 ◼   ► share but I'd like to hear yours first. Yeah, I think it's

02:02:25 ◼   ► difficult because on the one hand, you can argue that

02:02:29 ◼   ► regulation does often push companies to do things that

02:02:34 ◼   ► they wouldn't do otherwise. Apple had shown for a pretty

02:02:38 ◼   ► long time that they were willing to make the experience

02:02:42 ◼   ► of messaging people with Android phones worse such that

02:02:47 ◼   ► they well, I shouldn't say worse. They didn't they didn't

02:02:50 ◼   ► try to make it better. Right. And part of that you could say

02:02:54 ◼   ► was malicious because they wanted more people to buy

02:02:57 ◼   ► iPhones cuz they were guilted into it. The more charitable

02:02:59 ◼   ► thing would be that they just didn't care to spend resources

02:03:02 ◼   ► building out RCS support and there were problems with the way

02:03:05 ◼   ► that Google had implemented their version of RCS that

02:03:08 ◼   ► didn't. It's it it goes on ad nauseum but the reality is is

02:03:12 ◼   ► that regulation does get companies to do things whether

02:03:15 ◼   ► they want to or not within a time frame. The problem is and

02:03:19 ◼   ► this is where I've been not super I've been empathetic I

02:03:25 ◼   ► guess towards Apple in regards to the DMA is and this is the

02:03:30 ◼   ► way that Europe has just chosen to do legislation in some ways.

02:03:33 ◼   ► I think it's better than the way we do it here in the US.

02:03:36 ◼   ► There's not really any strict their guidelines right. So

02:03:40 ◼   ► there's not this is what you can and can do. It's the onus is

02:03:43 ◼   ► on Apple that kind of come to the DMA and say hey or come to

02:03:46 ◼   ► the EU and say hey this is what we think as per the DMA

02:03:50 ◼   ► guidelines fit within the framework of what's expected and

02:03:53 ◼   ► then the EU either goes okay or nope try again you're still not

02:03:57 ◼   ► there and so it's been this kind of teetering back and

02:04:00 ◼   ► forth where it gets problematic is that the more regions that

02:04:06 ◼   ► try to do this the less I don't want to say accommodating but

02:04:13 ◼   ► the more fragmented the iOS and iPad OS and Mac OS experience

02:04:18 ◼   ► is likely to become for people all around the world and I

02:04:22 ◼   ► think that is problematic because once you've shoehorned

02:04:26 ◼   ► yourself into a region that's pretty small that's worth

02:04:29 ◼   ► investing money into they're not Apple's not gonna stop sales

02:04:31 ◼   ► altogether but they're also not gonna continue to upgrade this

02:04:36 ◼   ► weird legislative thing that your government said was

02:04:39 ◼   ► required five years ago and there's just you're gonna have

02:04:42 ◼   ► more bugs you're gonna have less consistency as there's more

02:04:44 ◼   ► binaries that need to be installed when different

02:04:47 ◼   ► devices around the world at different times I empathize

02:04:51 ◼   ► with Apple because it seems incredibly unrealistic to do on

02:04:54 ◼   ► a global scale and the EU I think they're playing ball

02:04:58 ◼   ► because it's such a huge market and they have to comply if

02:05:00 ◼   ► they're gonna sell stuff there and it's a big enough market

02:05:03 ◼   ► that they're willing to do it and some of these things that

02:05:06 ◼   ► they do to comply I think will come by extension to the US and

02:05:10 ◼   ► other parts of the world just because it's too difficult to

02:05:13 ◼   ► not if they have to do it you might as well just bring it

02:05:16 ◼   ► everywhere but it does kind of in some ways seem to be

02:05:20 ◼   ► innovation by consensus which as history would dictate is not

02:05:23 ◼   ► always the best way to do stuff so I think what I've been

02:05:28 ◼   ► thinking about over the weekend is that I think there's a lot of

02:05:32 ◼   ► people who think they are in favor of the DMA who if they

02:05:37 ◼   ► really read it and understood the full implications of it

02:05:41 ◼   ► would realize that it's it's not what they think it is and I

02:05:46 ◼   ► think there's a lot of people nerds people in our collective

02:05:49 ◼   ► audience you remind whose main issues are a couple of things

02:05:54 ◼   ► where they see Apple being dicks that Apple is a dick about

02:05:59 ◼   ► the 30% 15% mandatory cut of the app store and that they're a

02:06:06 ◼   ► dick on the same vector about the whole idea that the only

02:06:10 ◼   ► way to distribute software for iOS is through the app store and

02:06:15 ◼   ► the DMA addresses both of those issues that the both it both

02:06:20 ◼   ► says that you can't mandate that all transactions go through

02:06:26 ◼   ► the gatekeepers payment processing which is where Apple