The Accidental Tech Podcast

129: Tap-to-Click Wizard


  Sometimes people just like the have something to fiddle with their fingers. [TS]

  What else going on now think that we have nothing in the fog section as Wake except for a night [TS]

  and we decided we're not talking about this week and that's it. [TS]

  So we actually genuinely have no follow up for real as confirmed by John Syracuse himself. We had a long. [TS]

  You know I was away on vacation and me. [TS]

  You know we had a recording schedule what the hell was our last show about it was so long ago. [TS]

  It doesn't really matter. I don't know. So yeah. We should guest talk about Sky lake. [TS]

  Because that's a thing as of today. Well sort of I mean I think the most boring skylight ships launch today. [TS]

  The ones that go in like IMAX and desktops. Oh are they the most boring. [TS]

  I think Intel thinks that they're the most exciting because they are extreme to use the ninety's parlance like they're [TS]

  the able to be overclocked like Intel is actually talking about overclocking in them you know to me like they're the [TS]

  ones they're sort of the P.C. Enthusiasm. Chips now that there's many of them left but. [TS]

  Like maybe they think that's like the only place that is a potentially a growth market so I don't think they're the [TS]

  most boring ones maybe they're the least to relevant to people who buy Apple computers. [TS]

  Because like you said the does it just going to be the ones they go on the IMAX in the one thing on the IMAX are going [TS]

  to be overclocked and. It's going to be the middle range one of the iris Prograf X. and It's like whatever. [TS]

  But I think Intel think because they were released in an ounce of what is it Games com What the hell's the name of the [TS]

  conference. [TS]

  It doesn't matter anyway gaming related thing and so they're going to releasing the chips that would be interested. [TS]

  Of interest to people who are building gaming P.C.'s and they want to know. I'm building my gaming P.C. [TS]

  I want to maybe overclock it. Maybe I want to put two three four G.P.U. [TS]

  Graphics cards inside it and getting them together in some way and so it's really about ethics [TS]

  and overclocking home I use are excited what Intel thinks are exciting [TS]

  but you're saying they're not exciting because they're not like the ones that are going to go in most of the max that [TS]

  Apple sells which are the laptops and. They're not anything that would ever go on a mac pro right. [TS]

  No but it isn't it isn't even just that I'm saying. Even for the markets that they are intended for. [TS]

  I think it's it's an incremental update at best you know it. What. [TS]

  What is apparently like the big thing with sky like is really you know. [TS]

  It's a small incremental improvement and performance. But it's a sin. [TS]

  It's an allegedly substantial improvement and power consumption and battery life. [TS]

  And so to have these high claw desktop chips come out that are you know high wattage high clocks. [TS]

  Not meant for laptops for the power. Stuff it's probably not like super to Dinan or at least super emphasized. [TS]

  It's interesting. But only on a mild level for a very small number of people like. [TS]

  It doesn't really matter if the desktop chips get ten percent more power fish and. [TS]

  It doesn't have that big of an effect on I mean. Yeah yeah you can you can. You know slam against T.T.P. [TS]

  More and get a lot more clocks it may be but for the most part. [TS]

  The exciting part here is when these come to laptops and. [TS]

  Because we have heard so many things that sky Lake is going to be. This major power improvement in everything. [TS]

  You know the reality is that matter so much more in laptops. [TS]

  So if we can actually get twenty percent more performance in a laptop or. You know twenty percent more battery life. [TS]

  That's way more impressive and that could really make a big difference things like the mac book wonder the eleven [TS]

  and shareware the battery right now it's pretty short. [TS]

  Really for what you need it for or could it could allow Apple to. You know. Obviously I would hope. [TS]

  With like the fifteen inch line I would hope they would use this new savings to get banks and battery life [TS]

  and bring it up like to twelve hours instead of nine or something like that you know [TS]

  or you know break up to six hours of heavy use instead of five or four. That be great. [TS]

  In reality they're what's probably going to happen instead of the probably going to get redesigned the fifteen inch. [TS]

  To make a thinner and lighter. [TS]

  And you know I don't love that they keep doing that but it's at least interesting and exciting [TS]

  and certainly lot of people like that. [TS]

  And so you know that's where the action is going to be with sky like is when it comes to the laptops in the meantime. [TS]

  You know I don't as a sitting here in desktops and not even the macro hit just sitting here like it [TS]

  and in like high end. Mostly P.C. Desktops and maybe the IMAX. That just isn't that interesting to me. [TS]

  So I haven't read too much about these chips I think not everything has been released because even though they were [TS]

  sort of launched at this game. [TS]

  Saying the technical details according to non tech anyway are not coming out until Intel's developer. Forum. [TS]

  Thing like we're going to tell you about the guts of the stuff [TS]

  but this is this is their god what the hell is the talk right. The new heart attack at the same it's not a shrink. [TS]

  It's still you know for the animators. It's the talk it's a new architecture. [TS]

  But what is new and different about that are gesture I don't think we know the details yet officially. [TS]

  And this thing is a link in the show as a benchmark in the mall like not an impressive performance game for the desktop [TS]

  ones. [TS]

  Some weird things where it's actually like a couple percent slower due to some issue they couldn't work out [TS]

  when using external G.P.U. but Whatever like a low single digit percent increase the stuff that you're doing. [TS]

  And like Barbara said. [TS]

  Power savings that are not of interest for the dust up things because like whatever that Sim some a power engine the [TS]

  chips. If this is a new architecture. What is different about a going to give us. [TS]

  This supposed a big increase in power savings because normally you think you get you get a big reason power savings [TS]

  made with a shrink. Right. But this is not a shrink. [TS]

  It's just an architectural change and I guess like I read a news article. [TS]

  I can see how they can get a little bit of savings out here for moving execution units around [TS]

  and having like the display some fixed function hardware in the display chipset so you don't have to send data out [TS]

  through DRAM and back into the G.P.U. Well you know all sorts of. Small changes to save power. [TS]

  Lower voltage for the memory interfaces and stuff like that but you know. [TS]

  We don't know that it was I don't know the technical details of the entered So I'm curious as to where the big savings [TS]

  are coming from and I believe that they're there from you know our tipster and other people. [TS]

  You know speculating about sky like saying that that is going to be a selling point of this line of chips that it's [TS]

  going to be well who care is not a big deal for desktops but for laptops. You can see a nice power savings. [TS]

  I don't know where the power savings comes from because I'm think that'll be interesting especially if it's not it's [TS]

  not like they it's clear that they didn't spend time working on performance because like well performance you know what [TS]

  I was basically a wash maybe a little bit better. But power settings boy that's going to be great. [TS]

  And we did it without a shrink. How do we do it so I look forward to those details when they are revealed. [TS]

  Our first sponsor this week is our friends at cards against humanity. And as usual. [TS]

  They have instead of a normal ad read. They have asked John to review a toaster. This week's toaster. [TS]

  Is the Hamilton Beach three one three three zero toaster oven. This is a pretty big toaster. [TS]

  It is what I would call for a slice toaster. [TS]

  Although of course the manufacturer claims that it's a six life toaster [TS]

  but this claim requires the standard miniature bread that they use in the toaster and the box shots right. [TS]

  Why they don't put anything in there for scale. But honestly that bread is microscopic so for a slice of comfortably. [TS]

  Like Mr Burns is toast or has a mighty hump on the back of it. [TS]

  Those humps you know that I'm talking about where it's like it's some point in the past decade [TS]

  or so all toasters grew humps of some kind because someone decided that it's great to be able to advertise a toaster [TS]

  oven by showing a picture of a pizza inside it. [TS]

  And of course a pizza is not going to thicken it in a rectangular I've been very easily [TS]

  but if you put a little rounded hump in the back of it you get a lecture room to shove your pizza in there [TS]

  and blah blah blah. You know my toaster does not have this John. You know any hump. You sure know. It's flat. [TS]

  Is that preamp it's a preamp those there. Yeah. Wow. So pretty help. [TS]

  My toaster that you said was inferior to your toaster. Does not have the hump. Yeah. [TS]

  I have a small hump most on the way. This. [TS]

  It's amazing the hump is made to look larger because the toaster skinnier at the top and at the bottom. [TS]

  So honestly like. [TS]

  Maybe the hump is only a couple inches or a reason same size as the average [TS]

  but it looks huge it really stands out the way this. Stosur shape. [TS]

  The wire rack is kind of medium gauge the Wire Act as not rectangular It's like a rectangle [TS]

  and then there's extra little thing like a little house poking out the back to goes into the Help section [TS]

  but something about hump is that the wire rack is like it's you know it's a rectangle with another thing attached to it. [TS]

  Sticking out there. Supposedly And the purpose of the hump is to. [TS]

  You know accommodate around pan for something like a pizza. [TS]

  But that's also does not come with a round pan which seems weird that this is that such a prominent hump [TS]

  and doesn't actually come with a round pander around rack right thing. [TS]

  L M like the promo pictures they show a pizza sitting on top of the wire rack of the toaster just like just on top of [TS]

  the wires not even in a pan. I feel like that would be a disaster. [TS]

  If they would have to already be done before it's put in there right yeah you cook and you put you put a fake. [TS]

  Pizza made out of wax [TS]

  or revenue make the food out of you know I think because of it so it doesn't melt under the hot lights. Anyway. [TS]

  Comes with a rectangular pan the rectangle hand doesn't quite fill the the toaster edge dead general who did that on [TS]

  purpose to try to allow hot air to come around or whatever. But it seems like kind of a shame. [TS]

  Plus a little small Iraq that goes in the past on the knob situation this is a three knob. [TS]

  Toaster top on it's for temperature. But you still need to set it to toast. If you want to toast. [TS]

  Middle on is for function. Toast bake whatever bottom one is the timer knob. [TS]

  And this is one more toaster all three knobs have to be in the right position in order for you to toast you gotta make [TS]

  sure the top knobs on toast and you got and you gotta turn the the function thing on toast [TS]

  and you get turn the right now. The bottom knob. [TS]

  Every single time to a particular angle this new one on the knob also says please turn on time or not pass fifteen [TS]

  and then back to the time that you want every time I don't even know if you need to do that [TS]

  but I think I feel like you can just turn it to like you know they have a very limited range like maybe ten [TS]

  or fifteen degrees that constitutes the entire range of toasting. And you have to turn and that range. [TS]

  The knob feels OK. They don't we go or feel loose they feel like you know solid. [TS]

  But they're pretty darn hard to turn the not very good be that like actually kind of hard to turn. [TS]

  And the indicator of like where the knob it's pointing. [TS]

  It is just kind of like a dull pill shaped lump in the shiny metal or shiny plastic base of the knob. [TS]

  And the knobs are pretty tall so you're trying to line up like sort of a indistinct capsule shaped lump in [TS]

  and metal that on a knob it's like an inch off the surface. [TS]

  And you're like way above on an angle [TS]

  and you're trying to line up that lump with like the exact unmarked spot in the ten to twenty degree range that [TS]

  constitutes toasting. The pending on like. What angle it's. [TS]

  It's really not easy to get repeat whole stuff and just wasn't. [TS]

  It feels like too much effort like your turning of the special you have turned past fifteen like force it back. [TS]

  Not a great experience. [TS]

  It's got four unshielded resist if you didn't on the Senate which I knew were going to be slower than the the big [TS]

  thicker courtsey looking things for a minute thirty second post time. [TS]

  Not great at least it's not over five minutes but [TS]

  when it does toast it's pretty even one edge of us a little bit darker than the other [TS]

  but it was kind of like a smooth gradient. I would say it makes acceptable toast. [TS]

  Takes a little bit too long from tray. [TS]

  Blessedly come straight out so you're much less likely to dump the crumbs back into the house during a trying to remove [TS]

  it so up on that door feels a little flimsy but at least it opens all the way [TS]

  and you don't feel like you're breaking it at any point. The little clause. [TS]

  On the door that like when you pull the door out also pull the tray out a little bit. [TS]

  The toaster the same problems elements where it has two different positions for the rack. [TS]

  And you're supposed to use the middle or higher position when you're making toast. But the little claws are. [TS]

  We talk about how do you deal with a little clause to pull the tray out when pulled the wire act out [TS]

  when the wire I can be in two different positions [TS]

  and a couple in a minute manufacture the clever things that the fancy Breville one has like magnets which I think are [TS]

  really cool that pull it out. [TS]

  This one just punts on and says you know what our little claws are only going to pull the trail [TS]

  when it's in the bomb to this moment in the top position locals do nothing just kind of lame. [TS]

  I don't know who made that decision especially since most of the time using it in Toast mode. Aren't you. [TS]

  I don't know maybe most time to are using it of an OK way it seems lame. I have never. [TS]

  Until now consider the possibility that a toaster oven would have multiple rack heights. [TS]

  Are we supposed to be changing our rack height thing and we cook it. I never have does yours have multiple records. [TS]

  I have no idea of never even though it's pretty hump it could be primo to Boracay So the one that we had until it broke [TS]

  recently so I am a toaster oven lists. Which is terrible. I know a guy who I some extra. Yeah so I hear. [TS]

  It had a very interesting design it had a wire rock. That was kind of. [TS]

  In an upside kind of a huge shape sort of a mean was flattened. But the way it would work is you would put it in with. [TS]

  When it looked like a you. And it would be very close to the bottom of the toaster. [TS]

  And then if you put it so that it was an upside down you. [TS]

  It would bring the rock such that it was about the middle of the toaster. [TS]

  And you listen to my reviews I just reviewed tested had it exactly chair couple of the same poster. [TS]

  Years might have different I think a lot of people buy these never look at the manual [TS]

  and if there's nothing written on the surface. Most are they just put the rack wherever they want to and that's it. [TS]

  But yeah. In recent maybe five years ten years. [TS]

  Most toaster ovens have been coming with rocks with either multiple positions. [TS]

  Yeah usually multiplicity because the higher position the position of looks crazy to all of us like [TS]

  when we were growing up the toasters all had the rocks way down low on the bottom of the only place they would go that [TS]

  was that. [TS]

  Now the toaster ovens all seem to have a higher position it looks way too high [TS]

  but that's where they want to do basically everything except for bake. [TS]

  They want you to toast there they want you to broil there only if you're baking yourself to bring it down to the bottom [TS]

  of this one is no different when you were toasting it wants you to put the rack [TS]

  and sort of the midpoint of the Alvin and only when you're baking you're supposed to but down on the bottom. [TS]

  This is a step backwards in toaster oven convenience because the whole point of this thing it is like. [TS]

  You can put basically anything a toaster oven and get OK result out of it with very little effort. [TS]

  Once you're putting in the complexity of multiple rock heights and. [TS]

  It's not that complicated I feel like the toaster oven is used either mostly than I've been mostly as a toaster so [TS]

  there's kind of a default position and honestly if you just leave it in the high position. [TS]

  Bake things find it mostly they want you to ease the bottom racks of your baking something that is tall. [TS]

  So that doesn't get like if you're baking. [TS]

  Something like maybe even just a big baked potato maybe start getting too close to the heating element on top you want [TS]

  to move it down but I don't think it's that big of a deal I think it is an improvement because [TS]

  when they were on the bottom. It was basically impossible to get even toasting. [TS]

  Because you're so close to the bottom elements have so far from the top one. That is always. You know rapture. [TS]

  When they're in the middle to better. But anyway. Overall of this toaster. I give it a passing grade. [TS]

  Nothing on a terrible. [TS]

  Nothing out as particularly great [TS]

  but it is certainly better than some of the really really bad toasters rooted recently. [TS]

  And it's fifty bucks Ishtar what it feels quality wise like a fifty dollar toaster. But. [TS]

  I just barely it's passing grade I think. A glowing review. [TS]

  Thank you very much to cards against humanity for sponsoring once again. OK. So I have big news. [TS]

  In an otherwise completely empty week. Are you guys sitting down. Are you running for president. [TS]

  I am running for president as a Republican like the rest of the country you know not. [TS]

  Let's talk about that the people of that. Let's not know there's not a fast text update. [TS]

  I have joined twenty thirteen twenty twelve twenty twelve whatever. I have a written a mac now. [TS]

  Lou do you have it or is a work computer sitting next to me but it belongs to work. All right well. I mean that. [TS]

  Baby steps you know. That helps. Yeah. Take a step in right direction. [TS]

  So the funny thing behind this is I was talking in in slack with the bunch of people including the two of you guys. [TS]

  About you know. It's about time for me to get a new personal machine. [TS]

  I have errands MacBook Air that I'm using right now which has been under water about eight times. [TS]

  I have to late two thousand and eleven high rez into glare MacBook Pros one with a platter drive [TS]

  and a ram which is mine. One way it's a and C. and Sixteen gigs of RAM which is works. [TS]

  I knew it was about time to upgrade. And I know it's probably for Scalia. [TS]

  And so I knew I wasn't going to order anything for me. Anytime soon. So this colleague one comes out. [TS]

  But I've been working really hard lately I'm really getting sick of my work computer. [TS]

  Having screaming fans anytime I do anything and. [TS]

  Really I was supposed to get an upgrade in June at my three year work anniversary. [TS]

  Because that's when Apple Care runs out and. I didn't get one then for various and sundry reasons. [TS]

  And so today just mostly to be snarky I emailed or I T. Guy and was like Hey just a reminder. [TS]

  Not only is this computer. Three years old in that I've received it three years ago. [TS]

  But even when I got it at that point we weren't buying new Macs are buying refer to sold Macs [TS]

  and so even though I got it in mid two thousand and twelve it's actually a late twenty level mac and. [TS]

  So I said that really just to kind of remind him that I'm looking for a new mac at some point. [TS]

  Next thing I know he's going to the Apple store and getting me. A fifteen inch for the macro which. [TS]

  If you're going to choose a problem to have is a pretty solid problem to have. So yes I got a maxed out. [TS]

  Fifteen in trying to mac book pro. The funny thing about it was I had concluded. [TS]

  Along Well really because of the to college. Steven Hackett Marco and a few others. I should get the not discrete G.P.U. [TS]

  MacBook Pro because there's really no need for me to have a discrete G.P. America Pro I said to our i T. Guy. [TS]

  Listen I think what I want is the not discrete one. [TS]

  But I want the terabyte hard drive if I can get it I want the old maxed out. Processor Viking get it. [TS]

  But don't worry about the ball or ball or one just get me the Intel G.P.U. One that's all I need. So he it's OK Got it. [TS]

  He comes back three hours later whatever it was and says Hey. [TS]

  Also I gave you the super loaded one because was only a hundred dollars more and I figured you'd like it but thanks. [TS]

  Thankless enough. Man is kind of the problem when like. People know you're interested in something and want to like. [TS]

  If someone's like Marco likes coffee right I should buy him some coffee but you don't know anything about coffee. [TS]

  And you're going to buy Marco coffee. The odds of that like. Maybe Marco do appreciate the thought of. [TS]

  But it's like especially if Maher and you're in THE SITUATION like it's their job to buy you a computer [TS]

  and you have preferences and you communicate them [TS]

  but you just know if you're not there during the purchases like they're going to do something they think is a nice [TS]

  thing to do it's like if I could just let me just tell you exactly what to get just get this. [TS]

  I know exactly what I want just get this. Yep and that's what I tried. [TS]

  But they feel like they want to do something even better like. [TS]

  Give me the give me the credit card I will order a card at the even better if you can get them to do well in in his [TS]

  defense you know not only was he trying to do the right thing and get me even more than what I asked for. [TS]

  Not only that but I'm pretty sure part of what influenced him was that he could have this computer today and. [TS]

  If I had gotten the not discrete G.P.U. One. It was and. You know that's not carried in any normal Apple store. [TS]

  Well the base model is the not would not with the terabyte and the upgrade. [TS]

  Exactly so here again like I'm not mad about it. [TS]

  I'm actually really excited have a new computer because again I was much as I do love my high rez anti-glare fifteen [TS]

  inch MacBook Pros. They're both getting pretty. Long in the tooth now. But I bring all this up. [TS]

  Actually because I wanted to share what it's like to have a written a mac for the first time in twenty fifteen. [TS]

  Because all of you have lived this before [TS]

  but I haven't so I want my moment in the sun damage in all of you I don't have any right to mags. [TS]

  Do you believe in each [TS]

  and cheese grater so you don't even count how why the only one of the of like three alleged Apple experts. [TS]

  How I've been the only one who had a retina mac. [TS]

  Since two thousand and twelve for the year although the only one who loves to buy expensive things [TS]

  and Solomon by different expensive things are as Casey and I are much more cautious. [TS]

  It's more that it's more that John you use don't own laptops generally speaking. [TS]

  Two of them sit in the room when they are right now. Yeah but they're not yours. [TS]

  You know like I think I think if you were the kind of person who who bought a laptop for yourself. [TS]

  I think you would all you would have had one sometime in the last three years. Yeah that's definitely true. [TS]

  If I was a lot the person I would have had a right on one time ago. [TS]

  Say and I am a laptop person but just like John said I try. Be Frugal whenever possible. Usually fail but I try. [TS]

  And so one way or another. This is my first retina mac and I'll not try to make this fairly quick. [TS]

  Retina screens are beautiful. Arrest in a display. [TS]

  To live is the very best viewing experience that first an OTA Secondly I noticed a is ALL MY GOD. Everything is he. [TS]

  Because I'm used to this high rez anti-glare MacBook Pro has resolution I don't even remember offhand. [TS]

  Six hundred eighty. A store. That sounds about right. [TS]

  Whereas this fifteen inch Retina MacBook Pro is considerably less than that effective. [TS]

  Resolution fourteen forty isn't fourteen forty yet but you can change it there's a set [TS]

  and you can vary the scale of load for yeah right. [TS]

  But native authority I would keep forgetting about the native native two X. Four hundred forty that is tight. Yeah. [TS]

  It is huge Everything is huge by comparison which is a little bit weird. [TS]

  I haven't yet changed the scaling I suspect I'm going to it's only a matter of time to just change it it's no big deal. [TS]

  Just change the name. Of where do I know that from I don't even. You're not even going apple references anymore. [TS]

  Come on sorry. [TS]

  Other To be fair I don't remember what he was talking about I don't which of which app it was yeah I don't know [TS]

  but that the Agha's memory. That it was a jobs email. Just change the name of that big of a deal. [TS]

  That does ring a bell. [TS]

  That was the first thing on earth second thing I noticed after how beautiful it was was all MY GOD I HAVE. [TS]

  I cannot put anything on the screen everything is enormous. [TS]

  Yes I am aware scaling I just haven't tried it yet I want to live with it as it was for a little while first. [TS]

  The third thing I noticed was you know I'm trying furiously to prep this thing for for work tomorrow and. [TS]

  I am installing V.M. Ware Fusion which is the particular V.M. Software that I use. [TS]

  Just because that's what I bought for every go and I have never switched parallel since Susan's way better. [TS]

  Please don't email us. I was installing the I want fusion and. [TS]

  The first screen that comes up after whatever generic like ten screens. Pop up for the installation. First real V.M. [TS]

  Ware Fusion screen comes up in old mice. Holy. It is ugly. Everything is what has happened. [TS]

  And I've never had this experience before in so ignorance was kind of bliss in the past because everything was blurry [TS]

  you could argue. [TS]

  But now it sticks out like a sore thumb and I can already tell this is going to get annoying really quickly. [TS]

  Now to be fair that's the only screen I've noticed in using this such as this machine in the last couple hours. [TS]

  That was like that but all my god it's so blurry. What happened. [TS]

  Yeah it was way worse back in two thousand and twelve like for anybody who bought some of the first generation right [TS]

  and I prefer like it was way worse back then because web pages were all just looked terrible like you know software [TS]

  update itself pretty quickly. But it's the web a long time to really get into having high D.P.I. Versions of anything. [TS]

  And so and web sites on retina still you'll occasionally run into one now that's not retina. [TS]

  But they're much fewer and further retune than they were in twenty twelve. But you know. To be fair V.M. Ware has head. [TS]

  Three years. A more if they were you know. [TS]

  Once the i Phone four came out in two thousand and ten with its retina screen. [TS]

  You know any observer we've been like you know. This is probably going to expand to the rest of the lineup. [TS]

  We should probably get ready for this. That when the retina. I Pad came out a year later. [TS]

  You know what we should probably get ready for this. That was two thousand and eleven then it's like OK. [TS]

  Now it's like anybody who has still not. Retina ready now like that's their fault. [TS]

  That's that this is beyond reasonable and where doesn't really have much of a U.I. [TS]

  So maybe they just don't have done dedicate the resources [TS]

  and have a department that is responsible for up there in the graphics because really like you're mostly not looking at [TS]

  V.M. Ware as Euros are looking at whatever. Virtual Machine you're using inside the thing you know. [TS]

  Right and to be fair this is an installation screen and. I haven't gotten to the point that I've put a V.M. [TS]

  On the machine yet but I believe that all of the. Honest to goodness V.M. Ware screens. [TS]

  Will be ratified or whatever you want to call it. Hi rez while you complaining about V.M. [TS]

  Ware by the way I have a a pet V.M. [TS]

  Ware bug that has been with me since seven point zero I think [TS]

  or they're up there now they're seven point something point something whatever one seven came out I had this bug where [TS]

  you've launched V.M. [TS]

  Ware [TS]

  and shows me that little screen that shows you're like a virtual machine library with like the little screen shots of [TS]

  everything and. If a launch at that thing comes up and I quickly double click the V.M. I want to launch it crashes. [TS]

  Right. If you let it launch event that screen with a little I break them up. And you just wait a couple seconds. [TS]

  It's one of those old school bugs like classic Macko S cooperative multitasking memory grab just wait. Just let it. [TS]

  Don't don't touch anything. [TS]

  Just let it sit there and then go over and double click it's on and it's been a repeatable bug through mult. [TS]

  Little minor I think they even do like a major that the seven point one of the get multiple revisions every time it [TS]

  says Senate crash report I do I think it is going to Apple the and we're probably never see them [TS]

  but boy I love those kind of bugs words like. Just don't touch it. Just be careful just wait just wait wait. OK now. [TS]

  What the hell could it possibly be I have no idea anyway. So that's basically all I have to say about computers so far. [TS]

  It does seem very nice I had the fans did kick on once or twice as I was doing an installation or two. [TS]

  And by comparison. [TS]

  They were super quiet I don't know if that means that their wider in general now I don't think the metrical is pulled [TS]

  in surveillance and propelled through Skokie cavities by fans. With the face of metric the position blades. [TS]

  In most fans. The blades of position symmetrically which creates a single identifiable frequency. Weekers ition Alice. [TS]

  Asymmetrically to spread the sound of a variety of frequencies. Which makes you seem quite and less intrusive. [TS]

  A recall to the conclusion. Makes a contribution for to receive benefits to use. Right. [TS]

  And so that's the thing is I've never experienced this for myself so that was very exciting doesn't seem like a jet [TS]

  engine slash hairdryer anymore which was very happy about that. [TS]

  So I have to say so far about like software and whatnot. I will note however that this has a four star trek that. Yeah. [TS]

  Marco's favorite thing. And so you got four times the pixels in infinitely fewer buttons. Right. [TS]

  Still just one if you are by the way. Anyway. When you first get a brand new mac with the force. [TS]

  However there is a magical switch one can flip. [TS]

  But Hammett be very talk about the magical switch was making you say that when you first get it. [TS]

  It's like the words they're like water about it you comes out of the box not touching any start using it. [TS]

  What repels you. It's that. There's a click. But it's almost it almost feels like. [TS]

  I don't like a fingernail got under the trackpad. So like it clicks. [TS]

  But it doesn't feel right it's almost Moshi the ones like a third. Yeah I guess. I don't know it just. [TS]

  It doesn't have the depth that you expect yes I understand there is no depth it's all an illusion I'm just saying you [TS]

  know if you don't really think about that fact and you're just clicking around. [TS]

  You're expecting more depth than it has it feels like something's broken. [TS]

  So you're saying it like I think you know like a traditional button [TS]

  but rather than going all the way down to feels like a ghost about like half travel. Perfect description. [TS]

  That's why we keep you around. That's exactly right. So I hated it. I hated immediately. I had a feeling. [TS]

  I was going to be able to get over it but I hated it [TS]

  but I thought to myself Self why don't you take a look in System Preferences and such a consist System Preferences [TS]

  and sure enough there is a completely. Unlabeled are two completely only able to flyers. [TS]

  Well I should say completely I'm labeled there's a there labeled click in tracking speed. [TS]

  Click did not mean anything to me. But there's light medium and firm as the three options. [TS]

  And I realized after thinking about it for second it was like What the hell is all right. [TS]

  When I switched from medium which was the default to firm. Angels came out. [TS]

  Came down from the heavens and everything was right in the world. [TS]

  The pressure you apply and activate like a mike that responds with Tom Feeney. [TS]

  So now instead of just seeing what's happening on the screen. You've seen it too. [TS]

  And I have no problem with attractive anymore. They have no problem with that like. [TS]

  Do you like better as a just like well is acceptable at the same to give the money he got the right next to tell you [TS]

  why go back and forth likely break. So yeah. I mean I'm doing this mostly to get a rise out of Marco. [TS]

  I wouldn't say I don't have a problem with it. I wouldn't say I like it more I would say I like it marginally less. [TS]

  It doesn't feel as crisp is it used to and there have been occasions [TS]

  when I think because there is no physical depth to it. [TS]

  It's misconstrued when I when I'm dragging or core clicking and holding and when I'm not. [TS]

  It's hard to describe and I'm really get put my finger on how to like reproduce it [TS]

  but there been occasions where I've thought I've released a click. [TS]

  But my thumb is still physically resting on the bottom of the trackpad. [TS]

  And the software seems to think that I'm still holding down on the button. [TS]

  Have you done the thing that some people have talked about. [TS]

  Like with the with the physical button because it was hinged on an edge. [TS]

  We all kept using the thumb because the bottom on the usually near the bottom of the bottom part of the split the quick [TS]

  but when no part of it moves they're all equally valid so you can stop using the thumb sort of theory goes. [TS]

  And use whatever finger using to control the cursor is also the finger the used to click [TS]

  and no matter where you did the same exact amount of effort required Have you tried that is that even a thing. [TS]

  My brain understands everything you just said My hands are already writing in results for that I think it should be [TS]

  easier because it's not coordinating like you're not courting you're not trying to like really press my thumb over here [TS]

  but then let me drag my pointer finger over. There it's all just you know one thing. [TS]

  I totally understand what you're saying [TS]

  and all all snark aside I just I think would be really hard to train myself not to use my saw a perfectly reasonable [TS]

  thing to do I mean I'm sure I could. [TS]

  It's just it would be hard for me to train myself to do that so anything like it's one of those things that is made [TS]

  possible by the forest trust trackpad and of course is not what we're all used to [TS]

  but like maybe someone who this is their first laptop ever like a kid like just Except. [TS]

  They say their habits are built on that. [TS]

  And they would find a barbaric time to press down with their thumb in this particular edge of the thing while moving [TS]

  your finger over there I don't know. [TS]

  I haven't tried either I had trackpads overall in general [TS]

  and what I've heard that from other people I'm just wondering if you should give that a trial I give it give it a good [TS]

  chance to be like maybe this is better although I think you're about to talk about something else that is even more [TS]

  potentially blasphemous about your track bad habits. Before we get there let me use rebut slightly. [TS]

  What drives me nuts about the force to extract that is not that I hate it I don't hate it. And you know. [TS]

  I know that the next time I buy a laptop it's almost certainly going to have one and I'll just have to deal with it [TS]

  and that'll be fine is not going to stop me from buying a new laptop forever you know I'm not going to like one of the [TS]

  old version forever because I don't like this trackpad like it's not. [TS]

  I don't hate it that much like your apple expanded keyboard to it. [TS]

  But what I find unfortunate about it is that what you're saying is you're basically in apology mode for it's like. [TS]

  Well this is almost good. [TS]

  Or this is great here for this unreliable thing and the click is almost as good as the old one. [TS]

  You know it so it's all these apologetic. Excuse excusing statements about it because it really isn't as good and. [TS]

  What bothers me about this trackpad is that we had a great trackpad before that very few people had problems with you [TS]

  know yes you could only click firmly on the bottom to those things at the top. [TS]

  But buttons used to be at the bottom on many P.C. Laptop they still are that way. [TS]

  That's why it was his that way it's why we use a thumb on the bottom. And everyone's been fine with that it's and fine. [TS]

  More importantly it was rock solid reliable. I have. [TS]

  I don't think I've ever miss clicked on a track pad that had tap to click disabled. [TS]

  To go make some flick to get to take home with the trackpad that is such a fundamental thing [TS]

  and to make it even even five percent or one percent less reliable. You know. It's like it's like if every. [TS]

  If every fifty attached to the space bar. Just didn't work or inserted an X. Instead. [TS]

  You know he's making fundamental input methods. Slightly less reliable than one hundred percent. [TS]

  Is I think a really big annoyance. I think ever she is nice but the point. [TS]

  The fact is if you're really good with the trackpad and you don't have to click enabled. [TS]

  It's very reliable like you very rarely have like. Unintended results from it or missed. [TS]

  Clicks or missed gestures it's very reliable. With forced touch. Yes they did something that's really cool technically. [TS]

  But on this fundamental level of reliability even if you can get over the feel issue which I honestly. [TS]

  I still don't think it's as good even on the firm setting. I've heard that. [TS]

  Happy Time makes it better in software I have not given a fair if I that yet but I heard that's better I don't know. [TS]

  But even with the click feel. Aside for now. Which I don't think it was a small thing but put that aside for now. [TS]

  The fact that it got even a little bit less reliable the fact that it is occasionally misinterpreting what people want [TS]

  you want first person to say that Casey. I had that problem and I when I own one for two days. [TS]

  I've heard many people who had to say who still have the same problem with it where it is a little bit less reliable it [TS]

  is like you will occasionally have a mist drag or miss click or something. That to me is unacceptable. Like. [TS]

  Why make it worse. Like to because that is it's making it worse. Why take something that is so good. [TS]

  I don't know if it is making it that's what I was getting at with asking about the habits I don't know if it's really [TS]

  making it worse is making it worse for you and for people whose habits are trained on the old one. [TS]

  Because your finger you'll find your fingers doing things [TS]

  and acting in ways that were appropriate for the old device that are not appropriate for the new one [TS]

  but I'm not entirely sure that if you know like ignore all of us [TS]

  and say this is the first time anyone ever use a track by this is the first computer they're ten years old they start [TS]

  on this thing is it works for them. [TS]

  I'm the that's one aspect of the other aspect that you talk about reliability of like I don't want to missing clicks [TS]

  and stuff like that that may be tied or habits but the other aspect of a stick think of like the the i Pod. [TS]

  Cook will remember that thing. The spinning wheel. [TS]

  Apple quickly got rid of the ring that actually turns and changed into a ring that does not turn [TS]

  but you just slide your channel. [TS]

  Your finger around the channel and people don't like that either because it was like well yeah. [TS]

  Maybe it was bad because that ring popped off all the time in the old one [TS]

  but I like the fact that it actually moved now I'm swipe my sweaty finger across plastic that does not move. [TS]

  How is that better. Well you know it's just a reduction in moving parts Apple loves to reduce moving parts. [TS]

  This is a reduction in moving parts kind of sort of mostly. Is it. It it I mean. [TS]

  It is because like the four sensors there's not a crack it opens up in like a said fingernails can get into food crumbs [TS]

  and get into that you know. [TS]

  Exerting aside the whole death and battery thing which is you know is a big motivator for this like. [TS]

  It is one fewer moving parts and is more uniform. It is like I said the whole surface is equally capital. [TS]

  Maybe it'll take a couple versions to figure out the feel. And there. And stuff like that in the reliability. I'm not. [TS]

  I don't know because I don't have one [TS]

  and I don't know if that's just because your fingers use it I know that it's coming from a mouse trying to use any kind [TS]

  of trackpad. [TS]

  I felt like I was you know just completely unable to but I thought it was a huge barrier between me [TS]

  and the cursor all the sudden because I grew up with a mouse [TS]

  and not attracted to me a long time to even become vaguely comp of the track bed and even now. [TS]

  If I have to click and hold [TS]

  and drag something with the trackpad like with a traditional one I have I'm an actual physical buttons [TS]

  and behind me tell you that when a lot with the regular button. All of them I feel like a terrible. [TS]

  And the for such track but I agree with you it doesn't feel as good to me but I feel like I'm more reliable clicking [TS]

  and dragging again to having his own for a long period of time [TS]

  but I'm I'm willing to believe that even though you dislike this thing strongly [TS]

  and it is worse for you is no no that's not what I said. I don't dislike it strongly. I just think it's worse. [TS]

  I know you can though you. Even though you think it's worse. I would say. It's definitely worse for you. [TS]

  So far even though you don't have a very long time either [TS]

  but I'm willing to believe that it's going to be better for people who aren't used to the all the way [TS]

  and I'm even willing to believe that can actually be better for you three or four years from now [TS]

  when the mechanical is a totally gone and you just kind of get used to it so. [TS]

  But a mark in your calendar for three years to get from now to ask you how you're feeling stuck trackpad on now. [TS]

  You know but anyway. [TS]

  Like I get Apple is forward looking and they're saying the same thing with like who's going to use these trackpads. [TS]

  You guys are member this but he's that trackballs down there with a button above and below the trackball [TS]

  and use the trackball either with your thumb and then with the other thumb on the one of the top button [TS]

  or you use the track. Trackball with your finger with your thumb on the bottom button. [TS]

  Some people use a trackball some people like them and they replace that with you know. [TS]

  Code Name itis the touchpad think you're like Whoa what the hell happened to the trackball this is worse I was much [TS]

  better at controlling things I never had any mishaps or swipes [TS]

  or whatever the ball was due to control I could feel it moving back and forth. [TS]

  Eventually did all used to it [TS]

  and no one is like this track that sucks i wish i had a track ball right so I feel like this is one of those type of [TS]

  moves where it has the inevitability a few moving parts. [TS]

  That is very in line with what Apple does [TS]

  and what technology moves do in general just because it allows you to make think the Naren lighter [TS]

  and there's be with things that slide back and forth against each other and I think it may be perfectly acceptable [TS]

  and possibly even better depending on the habits for new people so I am. [TS]

  I just I still say the jury's out on this thing. We're going to hear from all the trackball users by the way. [TS]

  Yeah we are known remember no Remember the trackballs and Power Books. [TS]

  Some people still use them like they're the big external debt problems they still make them all yet another. [TS]

  That's the people who don't understand how mouse works and I'd like to turn it over the ball the sitting down guys. [TS]

  I don't know numbers and I thought Paul and I that I guess. I was an expert cleaning mouse balls let me tell you. Yeah. [TS]

  I made to get tweezers. To peel off the big like. Yeah. Get it all in one piece. Yeah. [TS]

  If you're if you're lucky Oh come off want these going to scrape it. It's so gross. This is so amazing. [TS]

  So yeah so in case we weren't going to get enough email. Let me make it better. Trackpads are barbaric. [TS]

  The only one true mobile pointing device is the track point. Period. That is the deal. [TS]

  You know I kind of wish we still had track points. [TS]

  Like an Apple product because I think I agree with you because I had. I had Think Pads from e-bay back forever ago. [TS]

  Before I get myself like a new laptop. I would get like old terrible thing pads on e Bay every couple of years. [TS]

  For like three hundred. So I had. I had track points here and there briefly in my younger years and I like them a lot. [TS]

  I really really like them a lot but I wonder if you know. [TS]

  If you know the same way like I thought the sake of Saturn had awesome graphics. When it came out. [TS]

  And then I thought you know. Ten years later and did not think that anymore. [TS]

  I wonder like do track points still hold up today. Then they never held up it's what it's like flying. [TS]

  Flying the space ship. Cursor pointer. With a joystick. [TS]

  That's what you're doing with the trackpad you are basically riding on top of the cursor which is a spaceship that you [TS]

  are controlling on the screen with a joystick. It is not in direct manipulation. [TS]

  Crack pads are better than little track point I know people like them [TS]

  and they have one advantage which is it allows you to keep your fingers on the keyboard. [TS]

  You just gotta move your finger over between the F. and G. [TS]

  or Of the hell the thing was in the keyboards and use it over there [TS]

  and ignore the fact that it's cutting into your key caps a little. [TS]

  And it's good to keep everything the same place like that's. That's one advantage. Everything else about it sucks. [TS]

  Like as in how quickly can you move the poor cursor toward something that you are interested in all. [TS]

  You know get out of the thing about it is. If I'm really honest. [TS]

  Myself most of this is an astrologer [TS]

  and if you don't know what I'm talking about the track point on a Think Pad was always almost always read if not always [TS]

  read. They were also often times put on Dell's among many other manufacturers it's a little nubbin. [TS]

  That's in between I think it's actually the G. H. and B. [TS]

  Keys I don't have one in front of me but I believe that's right. [TS]

  And so you would push a little not in a kind of was basically a little joystick you push a little nubbin you know [TS]

  forwarding back inside side. And there were Mel's buttons. Immediately below the space bar. [TS]

  And that's where most buttons were and. I would for why. [TS]

  On that track point [TS]

  and it was so much more accurate to me then I am on a trackpad even after having a trackpad for the last. [TS]

  What eight years or something like that ten years. I still genuinely prefer a track point. [TS]

  The one place where Track point. Just completely falls down is Multi Touch. [TS]

  In terms of like swiping So for example what are they called now as an exposé now is a Mission Control now though I [TS]

  feel like they're always changing the name but I've lost track Mr control as of a couple years ago. [TS]

  This control thing where you can swipe between desktops that I'd use that constantly. And not being able to do that.. [TS]

  What is a three finger swipe not being able to do that three fingers why would absolutely ruined me on a Mac.. [TS]

  But any time I'm on a desktop. Excuse me anytime I'm on a P.C. If there's if it's a P.C. That has a track point. [TS]

  That's immediately where I'm reaching. Because I just think it's better. [TS]

  And I think Im still more accurate with it even though I never use one anymore. [TS]

  But to be fair I think a lot of that is missed all ginned in it's because it's what I grew up on because my dad worked [TS]

  for I.B.M. and So I was always using old Think Pads just like Marco and. [TS]

  And so I've always always always used track points up until I started using Macs and C.S.I. [TS]

  Still think the track points the way to go when John you're entitled to your opinion [TS]

  and strong as it may be please don't e-mail us do the things you don't have opinions about the things you can test. [TS]

  You could have just you know a series of targets you have to get and measure time for. [TS]

  Accuracy and like you can actually figure this stuff out for an individual person. [TS]

  For people in general if you don't testers like we don't have to destroy any theory that could be tested. [TS]

  You know you can also test whether vinyl sounds good or not but when if I ever cared about that had also been done. [TS]

  You're right they can be tested and has been so check. All right track. [TS]

  But I have you ever seen the mouse with the track point in it we had them. [TS]

  Like a think of where your think of where your scroll wheel is that seems crazy to me it's like you've got a mouse in [TS]

  your hand. Sometimes people just like the something that the do with their fingers. [TS]

  And I say we have at least we've been calling it the nub [TS]

  and we've been staying away from the various other names for this thing that. Yeah. We're good. We're doing well. [TS]

  The other thing I wanted to say is. I happen to think that track points are terrible but as excusing our track points. [TS]

  Touchpads are terrible. But as touchpads go. The Apple touchpads are far and away. [TS]

  Leaps and bounds better than any other touch pad it ever used and I think. [TS]

  And I think the multi touches a lot to do with that but some me the biggest reason that's true. [TS]

  Is because of the sheer size of the touch pad. [TS]

  Because maybe it's different recently a newer P.C.'s haven't used a terribly modern P.C. [TS]

  In a year or two but on P.C.'s up until at least a couple years ago. [TS]

  From the trackpads were Heinie they were postage stamps compared to what you get on an apple on an Apple device. [TS]

  And that just made it impossible to me it's like Have you ever seen someone to use a mouse on a space that is nowhere [TS]

  near big enough for that mouse yet [TS]

  but use the cell David cell like a mouse pad is there like four inches by four inches right. [TS]

  It's not even a mouth bad yeah it's just that we're in so all you hear is the entire time they're using the SO HERE'S [TS]

  because they're constantly picking up the damn ounce and putting it back on the table. It's the worst. [TS]

  I think give us a music like at a point of. [TS]

  Sale and they don't have a place for the mouse it's like wedged between like the monitor [TS]

  and like little Thanks They're literally using you like. [TS]

  I was like I have a centimeter of slop and so like thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump thump. [TS]

  Get up every three pixels they move the think sometimes they're using it upside down [TS]

  and never see those people know that I've not seen. [TS]

  That was a big thing back in the early days where people aren't familiar with mice and they would get one. [TS]

  And you know there's no clear way you're supposed to use it if you're never using me for so they would turn it around [TS]

  so that the wires coming out sort of towards them. And you know the mouse works fine like that it's like inverted Y. [TS]

  Axis in a video game right. And they would press the button is a single button double with their palm. [TS]

  Left or right side of their palm and some people just got Want to using a mouse like that [TS]

  and that was just it that's like that's the way they're going to use now so the rest their life [TS]

  and someone eventually comes I know it goes around the other way [TS]

  and put your fingers over here in the like Oh well like the other way like you get used to inverted why you get used to [TS]

  using the bottoms of your palms and that's who's to say that bad. [TS]

  Really I mean you kind of run over the court a little bit [TS]

  but you know it's was all used to some people left handed talking of leave that. [TS]

  Are you sure those weren't just trackball users that you are misinterpreting as mass. [TS]

  No I've seen this I've seen this in real life multiple times. [TS]

  Why only separated geographically and over a period of time people who use the mouse upside down. I've never seen that. [TS]

  Well I'm with you Casey I I would rather use a a forced tux trackpad on a mac book one. Said to the squishy a setting. [TS]

  Then use the best P.C. Trackpad available. Oh yeah. [TS]

  I think it's not just the size two it's also I don't know if they're not made of glass. [TS]

  You know it's too expensive but they're always made out of like. [TS]

  Sometimes it's textured plastic or some other kind of plastic that feels bad or like ends up getting like bubbles [TS]

  or wrinkles [TS]

  and it just it just feels like the cheapest they never felt in your life compared to like Apple has trial the same [TS]

  trajectory they riginal code name I distracted on the first up our book was plasticky and guard. But G.N. Terrible. [TS]

  That's what Windows trackpad to like. [TS]

  Now Apple slowly progress making its track bed [TS]

  and might just the might distract that was really tiny it was like like the size of the to combine mouse buttons on my [TS]

  mouse. [TS]

  And Apple does get making the bigger and bigger and bigger and making the button part smaller and smaller [TS]

  and then moving the bottom part of making a glass and P.C. [TS]

  Manufacturers that you know what are you know sloppy the plastic on here with some cheap sensor hunting that's fine for [TS]

  now the only other thing I want to say because I don't pick up to doff enough people yet the seeming. [TS]

  I used to have to click. And I just want to throw it out there. I don't have a problem with it. [TS]

  I don't see why everyone so worked up about it. I don't see what the issue is. I don't typically. [TS]

  Click by way of tapping. But I can go either way I can swing either way and I'm OK with that. [TS]

  Do you do you just using TAP TO CLICK now and with a new thing have you always you know. Always. [TS]

  Well then you have no reason to ever complained about missed clicks or accidental quite right. Yourself. [TS]

  Yet you deserve any unreliability in tapping that you get. [TS]

  I think no I think that the quickly I'm not super Andy tactic like. Here's what I think about how to look. [TS]

  If you are attached to click wizard. I think it's better. [TS]

  Like I feel like the expert mode because you don't have to apply a lot of pressure like if you have somehow trained [TS]

  yourself to magically dance your fingers across a surface. [TS]

  And you can walk about the line between putting your finger down into the thing and tapping to click. [TS]

  It is more efficient because you don't have to press hard right. But I can know I can't do it. [TS]

  I know when I enable i get missed. [TS]

  Clicks all the time and I try to do I would like to be a tap to click with her but I'm just not right and. [TS]

  Almost everyone else I've ever seen. They accidently had to click to. [TS]

  And they're just that is willing to accept the error rate as just the cost of doing business. [TS]

  I mean my own mother uses it. [TS]

  Because there's more comfortable you don't have to press it hard there is sort of a a luxury [TS]

  and a kind of a higher level of user interface like it's one step removed is waving your hands in front of something a [TS]

  Minority Report style or with ALS a thing called the track pointy thing. Remember that. [TS]

  I actually use that I've attached to my computer is cool the thing where you go and put your hand over the photo bar [TS]

  and you see that this five point three or five finger tips and move them around. [TS]

  Why what I think I like i'm application of all you guys all remember. Well anyway. [TS]

  So I actually one of the reasons why I think I resist. Tap to click. Is because I secretly want to be a tactic wizard. [TS]

  I would love it. [TS]

  If I was really good at it and really used to it because it does seem like it would be superior if it was perfect. [TS]

  And it's silent. [TS]

  And there's lots of time to go I'm using a laptop in bed trying to get some work done before going to sleep [TS]

  or something like there's lots of times even while pod casting. [TS]

  I would love to you know get like a Magic Trackpad and be able to like to have to click on it comfortably. [TS]

  And there and then have silent. Now saying. [TS]

  Well pocket you know Celtic I would love that but I just I've tried it here and there for like couple days at a time [TS]

  and you could never get into it and it's not that it's not reliable it has a threshold. This is a tab. [TS]

  And this is not a top right. It's just that you can't walk about line. [TS]

  Very often you will find your fingers hitting the pad with enough force to go over that threshold [TS]

  and you didn't mean to and you don't have control that threshold really either. [TS]

  So I think it is you know as reliable as a button it's like if you press [TS]

  or doesn't want to FORCE I considered a click give your resume and last lot I don't [TS]

  but you find your finger is hitting the thing and causing taps [TS]

  and you didn't want to buy the by the name of things called Leap Motion on your member. Late motion. [TS]

  I think I've heard the name. Go click the link I just put in the chat room and the show not you'll remember it. [TS]

  I had one of them I tried it out when the S.B. K. [TS]

  Was and like bad or whatever it was really neat and cool [TS]

  and fun to use in the demo I'm not sure how you could use it to control any piece of software [TS]

  but it was a cool tech them a. I have never heard of or seen this in my life. [TS]

  You had to we had of them like the show notes I think for this show at some point. [TS]

  What I mean it's pilots possible I don't have that kind of memory but I don't think I've ever seen them [TS]

  or heard of a different show meant a lot of hi guys anyway. Take a look at the videos. [TS]

  This is a real thing and the demos like. You can get the stings to confront your mac. [TS]

  And do the thing the show on the demo no works like it shows in the demo what I'm just not sure about is like OK can I. [TS]

  Is it useful for me to use to control my mouse pointer. Probably not as a useful for gaming. [TS]

  Maybe maybe someone can make the game with that there is a lot of noise and kind of buzz in the thing [TS]

  and there's a lot of freedom of where you can put your limbs in front of it so there's the potential to be a sort of [TS]

  miscalibrated off but. Sure is an interesting piece of technology. [TS]

  Our second sponsor this week is Harry's go to Harry's dot com and use the promo code A.T.P. [TS]

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  They ship them directly to your door. The starter sets are an amazing deal now for fifteen bucks. [TS]

  You get a razor moisturizing shave cream or jail your choice. [TS]

  And three razor blade cartridges and this is a lot of people might think this is like double edged a few razors [TS]

  or anything like that. It's not our cartridge reserves very similar to like the Gillette Fusion. [TS]

  You know the kind of five blade cartridges. Very very similar to those in quality. [TS]

  Way better looking handles very similar shaved bald everyone that had just done nicer and. [TS]

  At about half the price so for instance the Harry's blades are about two dollars each [TS]

  or less an eight pack is fifteen bucks a sixteen pack is twenty five bucks. [TS]

  If you compare that to say the jewel if you can which I would say is the most direct competitor to ensure the most [TS]

  comparable. Twelve pack for a little over forty bucks. Twelve Harry's blades are twenty bucks half the price. [TS]

  Really it's such a great value for Harry he really do get like the same shape quality as a fusion. [TS]

  At half the price and I say this having used fusions for years [TS]

  and now having use Harry is there really is very very similar. Half the price can't beat that. [TS]

  And they also have great packaging great nice heavy handles. Classy designs and this is something you. [TS]

  Can't really get anywhere else. You look around other other. [TS]

  Shaving handle the razor handles and [TS]

  and everything that it's it looks like Android commercials like it just makes it look like it's not designed for people [TS]

  with good taste no offense enter people but your commercials are really bad. [TS]

  Whereas Harry's blades are really designed with like kind of like a modern. [TS]

  But kind of retro throwback look almost like a Mad Men kind of style. Very classy a modern look. [TS]

  We've also heard from both men and women that they love Harry's blades This is not just for men. [TS]

  It is marketed towards men we know that we're talking about that but a lot of women buy these [TS]

  and they're very satisfied with them from what we hear so with Harry's comedians ease of ordering online high quality [TS]

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  Go to Harry dot com and use the promo code. Eighty P. [TS]

  To save another five bucks off your first purchase or Harry's dot com from a quote A.T.P. [TS]

  For five bucks off your first purchase. Thanks a lot to Harry's for sponsoring the show once again. All right. [TS]

  So Marco it's also about what you think is happening with the i Phone six C. Is that interesting so I don't know. [TS]

  So there's been all the everyone speculating that. You know that there we've had the i Phone five C. [TS]

  Which is like the redone i Phone five with the plastic case and everything and. [TS]

  You know everyone's now saying well we hope this fall with a new i Phones come out there's gonna be a sick see every [TS]

  kind of expecting it as if it's fact like Oh yeah they're going to be a six seater going to redo the internals [TS]

  and everything and it will be the Sixes guts in a plastic four inch. Inexpensive phone. [TS]

  I personally I said on Twitter earlier this week I don't see that happening at all because the simple reason is that we [TS]

  always for the last many years now. [TS]

  We have seen pretty pretty solid healthy amount of parts leaks in the late summer leading up to the fall i Phone really [TS]

  is because the fact is the supply chain for making millions and millions of i Phones to be bought all once day one. [TS]

  This just like. It is it is very unrealistic to expect that they would have a brand new model of i Phone. [TS]

  Even if it isn't the top of the line when they would have a brand new model using a new casing a new parts. [TS]

  And those parts. Wouldn't be leaking at all yet. It is possible if I do think it's unlikely. [TS]

  And so I think if there was going to be a sixty. There would be some changes to the casing. [TS]

  Certainly even if it looked kind of the same. There's always minor variation you know. [TS]

  Whenever there's like an ass model. You know where like the case stays a bit. [TS]

  Basically the same but there's a new guts. The the parts are actually different enough. [TS]

  Even on the casing that those always leak and those in fact have leaked already for. [TS]

  What is called in quotes the i Phone six S. Presumably like the main. I Phone six Update for this fall. [TS]

  There have already been leaked parts for that there was a back case there was a screen. [TS]

  So we have seen nothing else though there. We haven't even seen the six S. [TS]

  Plus parts leaks yet why assume there will be one because I'd be weird if there wasn't [TS]

  but you know so always seemed so far as a success parts. [TS]

  I would assume based on that then that we're not going to see any new totally new looking extreme cases. [TS]

  And they were probably giving the C. I Phone five. And i Phone six C. I think the i Phone five. See. [TS]

  Falls out of the lineup or replaces the four S. Which is still for sale today in some markets right isn't that like. [TS]

  Unlike some like India and China markets isn't that still for sale. The for us. [TS]

  I think so I don't know I mean I remember when they were saying they were keeping it but only in certain regions [TS]

  but I don't know how long right so I assume. [TS]

  I think it's probably safe to assume that the that everything basically it was down a step. So you have the five C. [TS]

  Moving to that spot in the US. [TS]

  and a lot of like you know rich countries basically you have the cheapest phone becoming the five S. [TS]

  And then you have the old six and six plus maybe at least the old six maybe the six plus who knows. And then. [TS]

  The new success and success plus. And that's the lineup. And I don't think there's. [TS]

  It doesn't seem like is that hard to predict. And you know maybe there's going to be a new. [TS]

  You know Rose gold color people are speculating who knows but I don't think we're going to see a new low end model. [TS]

  I think that the same though because I think the five C. [TS]

  Have a lot of really good attributes so obviously the guts are outdated or whatever [TS]

  and if you're going to keep a phone like that on the in a lineup you have to change the innards [TS]

  but does our talk about likely the do i Pod Touch like oh and eight and a five C. Size case like. [TS]

  You could make that into a replacement. Five C. Type phone which would be the old four inch screen. [TS]

  The thing that has going for it for the people you can ask someone who owns them why did you get this. [TS]

  We all know somebody who is like. And I was developer or otherwise tech nerd who usually gets the best fanciest phone. [TS]

  But decided to get a five C. What's so great about the five say. Number one comes in colors. People like colors. [TS]

  Just people like them. You want to have a phone with a white back or yellow back or whatever. [TS]

  These Your choices are you just get a case [TS]

  and slap around people like things that come in call if the i Pod taught us anything. [TS]

  Number two it's super comfortable nice curved back like the plastic the people who have them in like them. [TS]

  Say one of the reasons they like it is it feels especially compared to the stupid five and five S. [TS]

  With the little sharp. Chamfered edge crap like not as comfortable in your hand. [TS]

  And those two things may sound stupid like who cares. Whatever. [TS]

  How comfortable it is just a big rectangle is free and what color it is those things matter [TS]

  and specially in product lines and. I think that. You know. [TS]

  Maybe didn't solve the expectations maybe didn't think it was worth it may be better just keep using the tooling for [TS]

  the things I'm not saying it has to be in the five C. [TS]

  Thing I just think those are things that Apple should bring to its phones [TS]

  and they are kind of like giving you know over time there have been more and more variations [TS]

  and all the profit in a lot topless point you're getting golden space grain stuff right. [TS]

  Expanding the repertoire of things you can buy. And if Apple wants to segment it's a line. [TS]

  You can kind of do like it used to be like aluminum was for the expensive ones [TS]

  and plastic for the cheaper ones they went all the Manana and. [TS]

  You could have a more kind of refined a line of colors but space greying gold and black [TS]

  or whatever for the fancy high end phones. [TS]

  And then as you go middle or lower have them come in seven hundred different colors right you know. [TS]

  Have different colors change every year and. [TS]

  Mark on where you're making our little case with the holes and it was mixing and matching things like that silly. [TS]

  They're overpriced. People like to do stuff like that maybe that particular design was ugly and didn't sell well. [TS]

  But I really really think that Apple should bring back at some point. Into its lineup of phones. A selection of colors. [TS]

  And a more comfortable thing to hold. [TS]

  And if it's not going to be this generation then hopefully like whenever that [TS]

  or the bigger vision for the seven a revenue caught. Well but. [TS]

  I mean [TS]

  and first of all I should point out that I'm total hypocrite as I'm sitting there saying who the heck ever bought multiple. [TS]

  holy cases for their i Phone five C. S. I also own three Apple watch bands but anyway. [TS]

  I'm so angry that I didn't get to point that out. All right. But also you know. [TS]

  If you look at the direction Apple's going with their product designs. All of the laptops now. Are metal. [TS]

  They've been that way for a long time. They just don't use that as a differentiator anymore they use other things. [TS]

  All the i Pads are metal plastic every step headline. If you look at the i Phone Line. [TS]

  The i Phone six is hold a pole uncomfortable for nobody. [TS]

  It's more comfortable than the five other than it slipping out of your hand don't you feel like the edges at least the [TS]

  rounded edges are more comfortable. [TS]

  Oh yes they are much more comfortable for as long as they're in your hand than they. Fall out. [TS]

  I know I'm just saying like that's. [TS]

  I know what you're getting I LIKE THEY GOING FOR ALL metal but I think like metal is a poor fit for all of your phones. [TS]

  It may be a poor fit for any of your phone just look at how they struggle with like the antenna lines [TS]

  and everything like Oh sure. No but I thought I gree with you however I was saying realistically what they're doing. [TS]

  It sure does seem and I heard from back when I was first complaining about the F. [TS]

  On site design which now seems like forever ago. [TS]

  I heard from a couple of apple people who were kind of cool really suggesting. [TS]

  Well what if the rationale was in state they would have actually said this is why we did it. [TS]

  But but the quickly suggested rationale was basically your naked robotic core theory of like. [TS]

  We we will just make the thinnest lightest phone. [TS]

  The smallest and it's like this thing and then you can customize it with cases. To give it either more battery life. [TS]

  Or more and better feel. [TS]

  And so I [TS]

  and I did you know with with the i Phone six this is the first from that I'm constantly isn't a case on because I use [TS]

  in Apple's leather case because I just needed some more friction [TS]

  but it is a valid products try to like I'm not I'm saying that's of wrong thing to do because if. [TS]

  If faced with this option this is a great way to go but you're like do whatever you want [TS]

  but the case will make a whole bunch of really nice cases. You can buy a bunch of third party cases. [TS]

  When you drop your phone when you're doing it when something spills on it when you scratch it. [TS]

  Get a new case because all the damage is happening to the case which if you buy from Apple seventy dollars for a letter [TS]

  stuck to plastic but let's ignore that for now. And just say look this is a good plan. [TS]

  Nigger about a quarter of them is a viable good strategy. Well. [TS]

  See I disagree with you there are so what part of the that don't you like. The problem is that if you. [TS]

  Let's say you has a naked robotic. You know fish phone in the middle there with the feel like nothing in the bar so OK. [TS]

  That phone with. Let's say you want to little bit more battery life. So you buy a battery case. [TS]

  A battery case attack to the phone is always going to be bigger and worse. Then just building that in to begin with. [TS]

  I agree with you for the battery I'm thinking only for fashion and protection like for. [TS]

  What color do you wanted in and when you want something to be grittier R R soak up next [TS]

  or whatever battery you're right because your I mean if you're forced to have two layers there [TS]

  and then all of the stuff like all the people still do it right and I still think it becomes a viable thing. [TS]

  But it but it in a fish and I agree with you that basically that the tradeoff that Apple makes [TS]

  and its fall in line between centers and battery life we talk about this a million times. [TS]

  There is definitely place in line up for for a phone that Apple sells that makes a different trade off the show [TS]

  and by the way if your most important thing is you need a really good battery life we sell you one with that as ways [TS]

  that are there other ones. [TS]

  You know a millimeter of the how we can equate cigarettes these days to give you more about her [TS]

  and at this point like the six plus is kind of that model just because got the bigger battery [TS]

  but yeah apple just does not make. [TS]

  Does not offer a phone that's like that so they force you to get these big humpback speaking of humps on things these [TS]

  big humpback things that you're right you have to have a layer of plastic of metal. [TS]

  The battery another layer plastic of metal than a connector thing [TS]

  and then it just makes your phone way bigger than it would be a thrill that in but for the color and protection stuff. [TS]

  I think make your robotic or is a reasonably vides viable strategy but also. [TS]

  So is selling plastic phones that are comfortable and come out of much a colors. Well but so. [TS]

  So going back to the to the feel and protection issue though. I would say that. [TS]

  Selling a plastic phone and selling thicker metal phones. [TS]

  That is a better strategy than selling all the new bar soap phones [TS]

  and letting you put cases on afterwards because the fact is people are always going to cases on if they want to case [TS]

  like anybody who wants. Extra protection for their phone for dropping everything. [TS]

  They're going to case to matter what shape or material a phone is doesn't matter. [TS]

  For people who don't want to put cases on their phone. You know. [TS]

  And there's I think a lot of those people and I think a lot of Apple people. So I just took out my I got my five S. [TS]

  Here. M I five S. With no case which is how I used it because it's very comfortable for me with no case. [TS]

  Is thinner and lighter and had my i Phone six. With the big leather case on it. The argument of like the battery. [TS]

  Being better has built in. That applies also to the feel of the phone. [TS]

  So I'm I'm both agreeing with your earlier point [TS]

  and disagreeing with your most recent point where I think things like the nigger but of course as you falls over here. [TS]

  Because I think you're better off just making phones. To begin with that can be used without cases. [TS]

  And have good battery life. If you want those and if you want to even more battery life. [TS]

  And if you want to even bigger grippy or more protective case. Those are options you can add on as well. [TS]

  People always will do that but the basic phone I think needs to be better than what we got with the six. [TS]

  I'd say I think that all the phones have been pretty darn slippery right. I did that. [TS]

  That is not as a leader who by the way you never actually own the neither one. My wife had a four S. and A five. [TS]

  And with or without the case. You know like I've. [TS]

  They've been around [TS]

  and of course I felt other people ones like you're right the Sixers slipperier a lot of positive with a size change [TS]

  like that's why your five and five S. Are lighter because they're smaller phones right. [TS]

  Sure but I always like or be phones like I was like a case like silicone or something like that and the leather one. [TS]

  I need that proving that you can't build in that group in is because by. By the nature of that grittiness. [TS]

  It wears out it scratches the dense it peels away it is subject to abrasions. [TS]

  You just can't build that into the phone so you're going to make the fun of something it has to be something that [TS]

  smooth and hard and shiny. Whether it's plastic or metal because you can't. [TS]

  Like you'll be terrible to make a megaphone that you buy the basic like the whole back of it is leather. [TS]

  Right but I like the feel of something that a back by letter so it has to be a removable case for that material [TS]

  but you're saying is like before us with the glass back or whatever [TS]

  or the five with the metal thing like make it out of a sturdy material that doesn't scratch and doesn't wear out [TS]

  and then really subject to abrasion. But also isn't slippery. And that is really difficult to do. [TS]

  So I feel like if you're either going to go naked robotic [TS]

  or for metal are you going to go non-metal material that is nevertheless pretty hard. [TS]

  You're never going to be able to you shouldn't I think make a phone. [TS]

  That has like integrated rubber grips [TS]

  or indicated silicon things because you're just asking for the phone to get ding dumping ugly [TS]

  and then it's like oh I can't take this off it's not a case it's part of the phone. How does five US feels great. [TS]

  Well signify. [TS]

  Five us on Twitter I forget some who say on Twitter maybe was a tipster maybe with someone else talking about how Apple [TS]

  was having difficulty with that. But the five and the five us. It was it was the five only yet. Because I was I was. [TS]

  I was asking like you know what the five C. [TS]

  Where there was a failure and we know what the reason was for it like it apparently got better margins and my. [TS]

  My theory or my question was like what it would continuing to make the five. [TS]

  But just just the advances in time [TS]

  and mass production would they have had similar margins like was it really is that much worth it.. [TS]

  And the answer apparently was yes. Because on the fuckin member the five and the five S. [TS]

  The the black color was different between the two. [TS]

  The five had had a very very dark black color I think it's called space by whatever is called the five Ascot lighter [TS]

  color space great anyway. The black finish. On the five. Shipton flaked off. Really really easily. [TS]

  And most of the time like. I like my five. I saw this. [TS]

  Most of time it would show up on the on the edges the sham for the edges. [TS]

  You'd see the bright colored aluminum shining through the plate the black finish where it had like chipped off [TS]

  and everything. So apparently that was such a big problem for Apple and getting yields on that and everything.. [TS]

  The tipster said that that that was one of the biggest reasons that they switched to the plastic for the five C. [TS]

  Rather than continuing to make those black cases. [TS]

  As the five eggs and went down the line of because any phone they make where they don't do a five C. [TS]

  Replace it with has been every other one D.'s are made for like what four years. [TS]

  They're made for a long time it isn't just the year they're the newest phone. [TS]

  So if there was an issue of like this thing is proving to not a jeweller have too low manufacturing yields. [TS]

  It might be worth it for them to switch out the entire casing and redesign the whole thing [TS]

  and so that was clearly a contributing factor. Very likely to the five C's distance. But we don't have that now. [TS]

  All the talk about yield Otherwise we're talking about and we can't remember back to the cause of the white back. [TS]

  You know the four. For us. [TS]

  Here is the white ones member like where they talk about the yellow talk about as they build this fall [TS]

  and he goes on the manufacturing line at some point the manufacturing process as a random sampling of things [TS]

  and you look at them as they do does this pass our quality standards and what our standards can [TS]

  and not have any next going to has to be uniform color can you know whatever their standards are an Apple standard [TS]

  they're pretty darn high in terms of. [TS]

  It has to basically be perfect looking to the naked eye and maybe even with magnifying things. [TS]

  The ones that aren't perfect it's like rejected like this one came off the line it's a. I Phone five. [TS]

  It's black all over except this one little part here if like can often a shiny reject it [TS]

  and every time you that it costs you money because you spend less time and you factoring this phone. [TS]

  And now didn't pass Q.A. [TS]

  and You don't get to sell that as of on you've got all the parts of the be recycled back when you start over [TS]

  and try again so that's what talking about rumors about yields these things all down to what your standards are I think. [TS]

  What would your conversation on Twitter was one of the things that was offered was that the way Apple dealt with. [TS]

  You'll probably Benchley was they started lowering their standards a little bit. [TS]

  Just like to not have not to be rejecting what I don't know what the percentages are and again this is all speculative. [TS]

  Rumor blah blah we don't know this is all true [TS]

  but these are all things that sound plausible because we know for a fact that all manufacturing has some sort of [TS]

  quality control process [TS]

  and we know based on what Apple sells that their quality control processes must be pretty tight because every time you [TS]

  open up on the Apple boxes and look about going under and jewelers loop. [TS]

  It's pretty darn Flyman look at the for can watch like. It's pretty amazing what they do on a massive scale. [TS]

  And it doesn't take much to throw that off to say now this is costing us. [TS]

  Big bucks because if our yield goes off by just some small percentage or fraction of ascended. [TS]

  That's that the big deal to us but setting all that Assad. Colors are cool and five C. Is really comfortable. [TS]

  I'm still a big fan of that idea of a phone. If not that specific phone because now the energy or old. [TS]

  You know it's funny because on a daily basis I typically have my hands on three different generations of i Phone. [TS]

  I have a six I have it in the leather case. I've used cases. Since shoot I think I had one of my four S.. [TS]

  I did not have one of my three G.S. If memory serves. And I had one on my five S. So I am a case kind of guy. [TS]

  That being said Marco I completely agree with you that even if I wasn't into cases for my phones. For the six. [TS]

  I would absolutely have had to put one on because I do agree that it is slippy or then than any other. I Phone of and. [TS]

  But anyway on a daily basis I will typically have my six in my hand at some point. [TS]

  I'll have errands five S in my hands at some point that's in the Apple leather case just like mine is.. [TS]

  And we use my old three G.S. As a white noise machine for Declan when he sleeping. [TS]

  And so all typically pick that up to turn on the white noise. My three G.S. [TS]

  Was a you look nice today on loop player for Adam Oh he was sleeping when he was Ipsita Exactly. So. Because of that. [TS]

  I feel like I've I have a pretty good span of several different models and to my hand. The five S. [TS]

  Is far and away the most comfortable. I agree with you John that the five C. Is actually more comfortable. [TS]

  But we don't have one in the house. [TS]

  So if I were just truly for comfort if I were to pick a new i Phone tomorrow it would be a part of my ideal i Phone. [TS]

  tomorrow is the guts of a quote unquote success in the case of a five S. [TS]

  That's if you had to hold a vote if you had to start actually looking at the screen. Completely agree. [TS]

  And I think I have to have a six. [TS]

  I still think the six plus is a little bit freakishly large but maybe if I had one I would change my tune. [TS]

  What's interesting is so. I know this is very very unlikely. It's almost certain not to happen in this revision. [TS]

  And it's even very unlikely for the i Phone seven. I think. [TS]

  Or for any i Phone just because of the nature but what I would love is. If the the D.L.C. Space Black Watch finish. [TS]

  Was available on an i Phone and i don't know enough about the materials to say. [TS]

  It would probably have to be made of stainless steel I don't I don't know if this could bond to illuminate in the [TS]

  correct way. But. So obviously this is a massive stretch of the imagination. But if you could do it. [TS]

  If you could have the stainless steel D.L.C. Coding from the space Black Watch on a phone. [TS]

  Somehow it whether it's made from still [TS]

  and I don't care if you could do that that I think would be perfect because Elmo is going to have your virtual heap. [TS]

  But that be great because the space bar coding is extremely durable. [TS]

  It looks great it is very dark but it looks great [TS]

  and it kind of feels like it's almost like a rock wrapped in vinyl kind of feeling. [TS]

  It does not feel like slippery metal. It is a little bit tackier it's a little bit more friction. [TS]

  It almost feels like plastic. Yeah. That would be amazing. I completely agree. Or like to make it out of plastic. [TS]

  Feel like plastic we have that we can do that it's plastic. [TS]

  Kind of like a not so shiny kind of mat finish really hard plastic. [TS]

  You can be unapologetically plastic so and so that once. [TS]

  Yes So probably not going to happen because of the materials and cost involved but wait. [TS]

  You called it weighed like want to make it out of one of the big cylinder you have the Hudson. [TS]

  Yeah you make a tungsten foam. The very small cylinder I have that's heavier than that book one. Good grief. [TS]

  All right I do have some questions about upgrade cycles and some other things but anything else. [TS]

  It's about the hardware and what may or may not happen in a couple months. Actually next month. In theory. [TS]

  Marco had some bold predictions about flash storage capacity to. This is boring. [TS]

  Well you make these predictions on Twitter like I totally think this is going to be and [TS]

  when it comes time to the bad guys like me not to think is going to be either you don't because I'm I'm not ready to [TS]

  make this prediction but you seem very sure. Well what happens is I make these predictions on Twitter. [TS]

  And then between the time I make these projections on Twitter and now we record the pod cast. [TS]

  I've had hundreds of people tell me I'm an idiot I'm wrong. So then I do some self doubt but. My theory here is. [TS]

  I don't think that we're that we're going to lose the sixteen sixty four one twenty eight split on the high end models [TS]

  now. I think that's I think that's going to be here for at least one more year. So. [TS]

  Sixteen gigs for going to keep going on that. And I just think you know everything else like the like the the. [TS]

  The existing six and if the six plus days which I actually predict six plus won't stay in the lineup [TS]

  but doesn't that's not that important. I'm guessing that it does. [TS]

  Basically what it did this past year where the six that we have today moves down a slot. [TS]

  Becomes available in sixteen and maybe thirty two. Because right now right now the. The five S. [TS]

  Is available in sixteen and thirty two. So maybe they would do that again. And then the existing five S. [TS]

  That we have today is sixteen. Only. And then the. What's below that. No that's just the five C. The five C. [TS]

  Right now is only eight right. I think that's right. So God I hope the five S. Doesn't go to eight. [TS]

  She's they've got to stop doing that. Nothing's going to. Leave. I'm still holding out hope for a thirty two. [TS]

  I would love if the base was thirty two. For the new six S. [TS]

  or Whatever we're calling that [TS]

  but I don't see it happening on Fortunately some someone want an argument very like you don't need any more apps an NG [TS]

  I'm slicing. Yeah I mean if you look at least you know the direction that they're taking with so many I.O.'s nine. [TS]

  Apt features and I let features. [TS]

  You know part of that obviously that they have a lot of phones out there already the in the installed base that have [TS]

  sixteen or even eight gigs of of space which is really unfortunate and really tight and really stingy. [TS]

  They they have a lot of phones out there that have those capacities already. And they're going to. [TS]

  They want all those to be able to upgrade to nine. [TS]

  So that's a problem that they that they were trying to solve but if you look at all these like app then [TS]

  and the various resource things they're doing all the stuff there. And there. [TS]

  They're also promoting happening very heavily to send out a bulk email about it today and her universe to use it [TS]

  and you can now test with internal testers which are useless. [TS]

  All this stuff so they are clearly they are clearly laying the foundation for a world in which tiny capacity i OS [TS]

  devices continue to exist. [TS]

  Basically I know I feel like you know there is a reason for them to do all that was like you said all existing devices [TS]

  they're kind of writing a wrong. [TS]

  Already exists [TS]

  but I I fear someone also use that to explain why we have to continue making sixteen gig devices in this next round [TS]

  and why we don't have to make thirty two. Totally agreed. Wish I could have been there and said. [TS]

  You're well from what I've heard from from people here and there. What I've heard. Which has no credibility whatsoever. [TS]

  Is that it is very very hard to convince the people at Apple who matter like about things like this to convince them to [TS]

  spend the extra couple of bucks on the bill of materials to get the bigger RAM chip or to get the bigger. [TS]

  Flash memory chip. I believe it. I've only seen the evidence of it. [TS]

  Exactly like we see [TS]

  and there are some tradeoffs to like you know with ram ram use battery life so I would like you know there are some [TS]

  chaos there but a lot of things just come down to making sure they have very very healthy margins [TS]

  and other things like that right and just [TS]

  and just Time marches on it's like alright I understand you have reasons for but eventually. [TS]

  You know you got it and it's like addicts kicking and screaming dragging their feet [TS]

  and leaving bumping the capacity is like you have the capacity of the Can we cut out thirty to make keep sixteen yeah [TS]

  let's do that that Oh that will make me feel better for the fact that I gave you the larger capacity that we put two [TS]

  gigs of RAM in the i Pad three kind just kind of get rid of the thirty doing good sixteen to money money money. [TS]

  I just wish I could convince these people of the of the long term. [TS]

  Downsides like that look at our customers that what long term downs out there talking about [TS]

  and totally invisible I agree that's probably invisible them. [TS]

  But we all know from seeing the experiences like that that it's like tiny little nicks of doubt [TS]

  and damage for the person who can't lie can't upgrade because their phone is full of like I will fix that it's all for [TS]

  the next version. Can't fit all their stuff on it and like. [TS]

  Well we'll figure out more gracefully handle when you run out of store. Like all these things are good to do. [TS]

  But another thing you can do is stop selling sixteen gig phones. That's nothing you can do. [TS]

  And eventually you have to eventually you have to like you have to venture stop selling ates you're going to much like [TS]

  the don't want to believe that it will be sixteen forever like. [TS]

  You know I don't want to have to use my argument again which doesn't have a name that we've agreed upon [TS]

  but has a like twenty seventy five sixteen gig. I've always find we did up the name some. [TS]

  You got operate eventually people. [TS]

  And it's just a matter of arguing over what year it's going to be and I feel like the year. [TS]

  I want to be is like two to three years ever than the year Apple wants it to be so we should. [TS]

  So what kind of time scale we would need to to get that you just need them to agree that that is going to happen. [TS]

  And then make them take which year it's going to happen it. Yeah you agree with me this technique will go away. [TS]

  What near all that happened well not this year for sure. OK. [TS]

  We've narrowed it down not this year will happen next year not next year [TS]

  but ask me again next year we'll have in the year after that and you just keep going [TS]

  and then eventually you're seventy five years out and like look we're all dead now [TS]

  and you still think the basic need bones like I just scans to have the margins. Can't do it. Yeah. [TS]

  Well because you know if you think about like. You know the i Phones for Apple's financials point of view. [TS]

  You know from the stock and from you know their their fans will perform and everything. [TS]

  The i Phone is their most important product by a long shot [TS]

  and anything that drives up the average selling price of i Phones. Is a pretty big deal to them. It's. [TS]

  It's a huge deal for for their money it's a huge deal for Tim Cook's evaluation like by the market and the press [TS]

  and maybe the board who knows. But that's not how they operate though. [TS]

  Because you know how they could save a lot of money. [TS]

  Use crappy materials and doubly so obsessed with a stupid chamfered edges [TS]

  but those people the people who want that stuff to be perfect. They win the arguments they say. Well sure. Yes. [TS]

  We could do this much more cheaply. And we wouldn't have always Q.A. [TS]

  Problems and by the way to be tips [TS]

  or wants us to know they didn't actually decrease their stance they do is increase their standards earlier in their [TS]

  production process to not let those cases end up being a bleed or. Those people win their arguments. [TS]

  Because you could save tons of money leave you to be a P.C. [TS]

  Manufacture make sure you track pass out of plastic it's a way cheaper. [TS]

  Look at those huge margins but they don't do that why because they want to make the best products they can. [TS]

  And I feel like at this point. Selling phones for one hundred or two hundred dollars. [TS]

  With or does even you can even three hundred dollars one with sixteen gigs. [TS]

  Of flash storage is making your products worse for people in a way that is avoidable. With not too much. You know. [TS]

  Wouldn't hurt your margins that much in the same way. Like if you need to trade off. [TS]

  Maybe find a way to make it out of cheaper easier to my I think they did that I think a six Plus it's easier to [TS]

  manufacture this curve piece of aluminum than it was to manufacture the five in the five S. [TS]

  With little chamfered edges it seems like I don't know any minute accurate it seems to me. [TS]

  This one must be cheaper to manufacture head. [TS]

  So that use some of that money that you saved making easier to manufacture case that either to get the pass he way. [TS]

  Put that into maybe having a thirty two gig model. [TS]

  Somewhere in your lineup and maybe not selling sixteen at the top of the line. [TS]

  But it's it's not about saving the you know five or ten bucks whatever the cost is of the flash chip in. [TS]

  You know going from zero to it's about the people who upgrade. [TS]

  Who paid the extra hundred dollars to go from sixteen to sixty four. [TS]

  Who wouldn't have done that if the base model was thirty two. Yeah you're right I know it comes out the money. [TS]

  Like there's always going to like well they're really sensitive money is a big prog line any small change in a device [TS]

  the cells in this volume for this amount of money. [TS]

  It adds up to big numbers [TS]

  and he writes the anchoring it's like well I don't want to sixteen is my only other choice is sixty four [TS]

  and they can charge more for sixty four sixty or so much bigger than sixty eight like all that stuff is all true. [TS]

  Just like you know those type of pricing games and stuff like you can play those [TS]

  but the worst thing you can do is put a product into the hands of people. [TS]

  That is going to give them a less satisfactory experience a spec. That will just get worse over time. [TS]

  That will make them. Have bad feelings about you or your products. I agree but Apple has always done that. [TS]

  They've always had like you know very low RAM configurations unlike the base model laptops [TS]

  and stuff like that they came out of that I felt like they got over that like it was a really dark time where like you [TS]

  see you know your new. [TS]

  You know three thousand dollar mac come standard was an obscenely small amount of RAM It might as well be empty. [TS]

  Don't even try to use it in this configuration. [TS]

  And by the way if you don't buy your Rams from us and void the warranty and like. Those are the bad old days. [TS]

  I felt like they came out of that especially [TS]

  when I started soldering RAM on the board that's one of the best things that happen to them Ram was because they were [TS]

  forced to use the same amount. Right because if there was a kind of you know. [TS]

  It's a prolapsed up but we put solder on the board for gigs. And you can expand it. [TS]

  Like so they were forced to pick say numbers are I think that was a plus the flash. [TS]

  And i Phones is that their new area of backsliding made us feel like we can get away with it for just way too long. [TS]

  Well and they. They obviously can't get away with it. I know. [TS]

  But there's there are there are it's ramifications I mean what Todd has some ideas that are now. What is the fall. [TS]

  I'll even give them the current lineup that we've all got. [TS]

  You know in our handle even given that sixty and find you get a pass on that one but this year. [TS]

  I really really really hope in the top of the line product doesn't even go down to sixteen. [TS]

  And that there's definitely a thirty two. You want to bet. I would not bet against that because I think it's about. [TS]

  At least a fifty fifty chance that you're right and that it's going to go down to sixteen [TS]

  but I just I just really you know. If only just because like that's the phones that they're making like. I'll bet. [TS]

  I'll bet you a sixteen gig S.D. Card that. This is that the base model and things like seen. I would not take that bet. [TS]

  I just I feel like it's a at the coin toss. Our final sponsor this week is hover. [TS]

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  Infinite time scale at checkout for ten percent off your first purchase. Thanks ought to have a response or show. [TS]

  Once again. I have a couple of questions about upgrading. So last year I was off cycle but I treated myself. [TS]

  And somehow convinced Aaron that it was worth it to get a six out of contract. [TS]

  Well that's not even true it was like kind of in contract on it was weird anyway. [TS]

  Like the half subsidiary pay four hundred bucks for something exactly. [TS]

  This was on a team to be this year Aaron is unequivocal the due for a new phone her five S. [TS]

  Is two years old or will be two years old it is her time. We'll see if I can convince her slash me. [TS]

  If I should also get a new phone we'll see how that goes. [TS]

  But my understanding and I have not really had any time to look into this you have a minor standing is eighteen T. [TS]

  and Most of the other carriers have largely done away with the subsidy. And two year contract. [TS]

  Dance that has been going on for forever and a day. Do you guys happen to know anything about how this is working. [TS]

  Man I tried to bring research before the show. Because I've also heard the same thing that. [TS]

  Apparently in Apple stores this fall if you buy the phone there an Apple store. Apparently. [TS]

  I heard that they won't do subsidies at all [TS]

  or that they you have to do these like eight hundred next type plans were like you pay per month. [TS]

  Additional amounts for the phone for like X. [TS]

  Months and which by the way is apparently like how the entire rustler world works and is like. [TS]

  It's the more sane way to do it is the the less manipulative waves Oh the waiving the price now is to fool you into. [TS]

  You know you're not good you people's brains aren't good religion exactly how much money they're paying over the X. [TS]

  Number of years for this. [TS]

  Like they don't see the subsidies like oh I get a phone for two hundred bucks [TS]

  and I have a monthly bill that bill so much better to me [TS]

  and don't want to do the math to figure out you know what you're actually paying more so I'm kind of baffled as to why [TS]

  they're changing it because the Voodoo of that pricing. Works really well may be competitive pressure from. [TS]

  I don't know from Team Mobil I can't even think of why the how much. [TS]

  You know because the underdog the crappy carriers the don't have good coverage that are trying to customers like a we [TS]

  have honest pricing and you can do math and figure out how it works and Bob Law. To try to attract customers. [TS]

  Maybe that's putting some pressure on eighteen timber Aizen But honestly it's a mystery to me why they would. [TS]

  Why they would go from a confusing pricing plan that makes people feel like they're not paying a lot [TS]

  but really they are to a pricing plan that is initially more often because you see the real costs. [TS]

  But it actually more fatter. Fair and understandable in the long term. But one thing's for sure. [TS]

  I think this is not good news for Apple. Like to me. I think. [TS]

  I think having the i Phone being compared on an subsidized pricing at any level even if you try to. [TS]

  You know put it in as I WILL This is the i Phone six S. [TS]

  Will be twenty five dollars a month more on the i Phone six will be twenty dollars a month more you know they've even [TS]

  if you try to break into like kind of like layaway plan pricing like that. [TS]

  Having the real price become more visible anyway without the subsidies. [TS]

  Is almost certain to negatively effect i Phone sales under the golden. [TS]

  Give the fact also like it was Aren't the carrier is doing this cross all their phones or just for the i Phone. [TS]

  They think they are doing it across all their phones [TS]

  but now it is creating a price on ballot for people to go under Apple on [TS]

  and some phones already are cheaper than Apple's. I think it will greatly help. Things like like one of the. [TS]

  Is it the Moto X. [TS]

  Whatever the cheaper [TS]

  but they though they've always been cheaper they've always been like the free with contract phone or whatever like. [TS]

  I guess it depends on like how much bigger are Apple subsidies than they are for the basically comparable phones for [TS]

  the top of the line Samsung smartphone or whatever like the. I think the. [TS]

  The pricing on the box is that in some alike it's you know one ninety nine to get you into the best Samsung Galaxy S. [TS]

  Whatever they're up to and one ninety nine for the best i Phone. [TS]

  And the only difference maybe will actually behind the scenes even though the that. [TS]

  The list price for you is one ninety nine plus. You know two year contract. Behind the scenes. [TS]

  The carriers are paying Apple way more than they're paying Samsung and so once that becomes visible suddenly. [TS]

  It's not one ninety nine versus one ninety I actually a much bigger number for the i Phone. [TS]

  Versus a smaller number for the. Supposedly equivalent top of the line. [TS]

  You know Samsung phone and that's true then that could hurt Apple [TS]

  but I think it hurt everybody across the board because people don't want to see the real fight. [TS]

  The real price of their their smartphone I mean I guess we get used to because like you said that's how the rest the [TS]

  world kind of does it and it's still kind of hidden you know it's like plus X. Number of mounts per month for X. [TS]

  Number of months [TS]

  and they'll still be enough multiplication to stop people from doing it as opposed to like basically buying on lock [TS]

  phone like OK. You made twelve hundred dollars of the hell it is for the unlocking I was not you. [TS]

  Twelve telephones like you are used don't know it right. And the other problem is in the US. [TS]

  Up till now in the US if you kept buying late the contract discounts ways. [TS]

  And these these plans have been like these pay every month things have been around for about a year or two now [TS]

  but a lot of people still haven't been using them and. [TS]

  So up until now if you if you're on the big carriers basically eighty of rising in the US. [TS]

  If you let say you're on a two year contract. At the end of those two years. [TS]

  Your bill doesn't go down like once your phone is like quote paid off from for the contract. [TS]

  Your bill has not decreased. [TS]

  And so you basically had a reason to go into the phone store and pick out a new phone for quote free. Every two years. [TS]

  Because you could. Because there was no. [TS]

  There was no new cost to you to do that because you were paying for a subsidy whether you were using it [TS]

  or not your bills data same with these plans. That is changing. And so now. [TS]

  I think you're right John like you know this is two sided one is Apple could be vulnerable to people get having cheaper [TS]

  phones in them. [TS]

  But two inches bigger [TS]

  but you're right if everybody is that now I think people will expect their phones to last longer than two years. [TS]

  And they won't upgrade as frequently. Because the whole the entire the entire smartphone business. [TS]

  The reason why Apple is never going to find another thing like the i Phone is never going to be like the next great [TS]

  product that is as good financially for Apple as the i Phone it was because. [TS]

  There was nothing like the subsidized cell phone market like. There is nothing. [TS]

  It's such a weird little oddity of a market where everybody buys a phone. [TS]

  Like everybody and smartphones in so many countries and especially in the U.S. [TS]

  Have been so heavily subsidized over the years that not only is everybody buying these expensive devices [TS]

  and they could have these high. Behind the scenes pricing to know what I was seeing them. [TS]

  But also people would update them constantly. [TS]

  People take their phones way more often than they would update their computers or any [TS]

  or any other like five hundred dollar life trying to devise or more. You know people to their phones every. [TS]

  I think it was like every eighteen months on average. [TS]

  Some like that for most of the world was a guess partly because phones are at the point where they're getting we're in [TS]

  the high the early phase of smartphones like every new phone is better in some significant way [TS]

  and eventually that will start slowing down just like it did with feces. Maybe but this. [TS]

  This subsidy model that we've had has been I think. Artificially inflated. [TS]

  Both the prices that these companies can charge for the phones. Because you know. [TS]

  And i Pod touch with an eight inside and the great screen and everything is two hundred bucks and. That same device. [TS]

  In a phone is six hundred fifty to have a bit does it a bigger screen. [TS]

  I think yeah I bet it's very right in there they can make more money [TS]

  and same thing with the carriers like oh how how can it carries hearts and minds. [TS]

  You know because they have a monopoly on all the. [TS]

  You know a near monopoly on all the stupid cell towers and infrastructure and the barrier to entry to everyone else [TS]

  and all that other crap like why is that. Why are they able to charge us so much money like. [TS]

  There is not enough competition in the space of a cardinal sin [TS]

  but even though they're feeling the pressure of the place where there are competition there is enough pressure to drive [TS]

  their prices down [TS]

  and a lot of the read you know like oh it has been so subsidize who's subsidizing it who is doing it it's the carriers [TS]

  because they know the total lifetime value of the customer is huge because they're going to get some massive monthly [TS]

  bill the people to be like are at I.D.S. I just gotta pay one hundred dollars a month for my health family or more Q. [TS]

  Use cell phones because you've got to have a cell phone and. [TS]

  So who is subsidizing this carries like Alright fine Apple will pay you seven hundred dollars good you know the [TS]

  lifetime value of the customers huge because like you said you know you get huge bill it's monthly. [TS]

  They just feel like they have to pay it like a utility. [TS]

  If you're lucky you have limited or no competition in your area for or maybe like one other company [TS]

  or two other companies that you can maybe collude with unless the two team mobile in their thorn in your side you know [TS]

  like that or maybe ever I was in your network of mediocre but everyone thinks of the best [TS]

  when the country for some reason. A man. [TS]

  Well it's better is better than to Mobile's right and you know and the barrier to entry is high [TS]

  and all of those things right. [TS]

  And so that should start to work itself out hopefully that they can just continue to charge huge amounts [TS]

  and if they can't charge huge amounts of a lifetime custom value of it of a customer is not as high so they can't. [TS]

  They won't be giving Apple as big a subsidies. [TS]

  Whether they're splitting it out [TS]

  or not like a new I don't understand enough about this change in pricing to understand what's motivating it [TS]

  but for me it seems like. [TS]

  What they're doing is better for consumers and a worse for Apple and carriers [TS]

  and so I'm obviously missing something big air. [TS]

  Yeah I generally feel the same way like I am maybe the carriers are trying to take away some of the power of Apple [TS]

  and like the high device makers. [TS]

  Yeah I could become be a power struggle like that but [TS]

  but I definitely think that this is most likely to lead to longer Phone upgrade cycles. [TS]

  Which is bad for both of those and lower monthly bills. I think you can be a power struggle. [TS]

  Make sense to me because I think you know you were always on the Apple who made more demands of the carriers. [TS]

  Than other companies. [TS]

  Because they couldn't because that's kind of the of their hard negotiators [TS]

  and you know for a long time I was just an eighteen to you know the. [TS]

  That they've made more demands and one of those more demands as you're going to pass a higher subsidy. [TS]

  And they would like well you know and we you know I'd put your crapware on our phones and all the stuff [TS]

  and from the caris perspective I think I like Android phones better because they have more power over the Android [TS]

  phones and as far as they're concerned like I'm in care of the crappy calling use. [TS]

  I just get you pay me your monthly bill. [TS]

  So for a cat from a carriage perspective it's better if you buy one of their cheaper crappier phones they get to put [TS]

  their crapware on. They don't care if you. You know buy a new one of those don't buy a new one like whatever. [TS]

  We have to pay a lower subs. [TS]

  I think if you like from Caris perspective they would be happier if people use cheaper crappier phones [TS]

  but just continued to pay the high. Same high monthly bills. You know. It's better for them. [TS]

  Then having to deal with Apple in all its demands not being able to put their crapware on it [TS]

  and having to pay them a bigger subsidy than everybody else because every one of the Stupid i Phone. And so yeah that. [TS]

  That is an explanation that makes sense to me. [TS]

  I'm still unsure [TS]

  and tireless sure it's not the carrier shooting themselves in the foot because it seems like as demanding as Apple is [TS]

  and what power they might have Android is the majority of the market anyway [TS]

  and so they really need to just like continue to smush apple into an ever smaller slice of the pie I don't know. [TS]

  Well but Apple Apple still has a lot of power in that people are willing to switch carriers for i Phones and. [TS]

  They don't they probably aren't as willing to do that for Android phones [TS]

  and also they don't really need to center fund everywhere. But like you know if. [TS]

  If Apple decides not to work with your carrier anymore that's kind of bad news for your carrier. Yeah. [TS]

  I guess that's true and you know Apple customers have a lot of money because the phones are expensive [TS]

  and so maybe the good customers who can pay for your fancy are plans for you over charge of them from our band with [TS]

  that really doesn't cost you much more and. I don't know what do you really think that Apple would say to a T. and T. [TS]

  or Arise and no I'm not going to be on either of your networks anymore. [TS]

  Like there's no freakin way that Apple would do that they might threaten it or allude to threatening. [TS]

  You're right you know have negotiations like I don't know. [TS]

  Hell they were on eighteenth only for real on time which if you look at your like boy. [TS]

  Seriously Apple still eighteen The only like when is the Verizon i Phone coming you know and well [TS]

  but hold on though that's because at that point in time. [TS]

  Marco was absolutely right that back then Verizon really was the only network that really freaking worked. And so. [TS]

  Verizon had a lot more leverage and I think that eighteen [TS]

  or excuse me Apple couldn't put the squeeze to rising like they did eighteen to Apple held out Verizon had to leverage [TS]

  it seems like Apple should have been forced to come over to arise and even sooner because Apple because their eyes [TS]

  and had all the leverage were the best network you're on that crappy hurting you in the press you should totally come [TS]

  over to us but Apple held off for a long time so you're saying it does. [TS]

  What Apple ever even threatened to pull out of like you know eighteen to or whatever. No way I think. [TS]

  I feel like they would said whether they would actually do it. [TS]

  Probably not but maybe they threat but no way they do it [TS]

  and also I just want to quickly underscore what Marco said earlier. I have in this actually a kind of good transition. [TS]

  I have a Verizon. I Pad Mini the original Retina i Pad mini. I love to say my retina Pad Mini came with a rising sim. [TS]

  But I got eighteen mobile SIM after the fact and I'll flip back and forth between them. [TS]

  Willy nilly as I see fit in my phone like I said earlier is eighteen C. [TS]

  So I I have devices that can use data on eighteen T.V. Arise in the N.T. [TS]

  Mobile in Marco I could not agree with you more. [TS]

  Everyone who has been a loyal Verizon user for a decade or more swears that. [TS]

  Rising has the best service in the entire world. [TS]

  I really don't think that's true at all I would even go so far as to say I think a teensy service is actually more [TS]

  robust and faster than Verisign. In any way or ever typically travel. [TS]

  So I just wanted to say amen to that I agree with you sort of people telling the world however I totally agree I do the [TS]

  same thing where I used to have her eyes and phones back before the i Phone [TS]

  and I had Verizon data sticks for a while after that and then I started tethering and then and then I got her eyes [TS]

  and i Pads. And so I've had an eighteenth the phone and Verizon data devices for a very long time now. [TS]

  And it is no contest that the Verizon like Verizon. [TS]

  Used to be the best network and I think they are they have banked on that with their reputation for so long. [TS]

  So they still have the best coverage in the US anyway just in terms of like total square miles of where you can get a [TS]

  decent signal. I think they might. But. But a T. and T. Has closed that gap so much like that right now. [TS]

  There are places like those don't have a team to reception. But they don't have rising reception either. [TS]

  You know certain places of a state that they have neither. They have no kit no carriers. [TS]

  And that's fine it's been a very long time since I found a place for eight hundred he is not covered but rise and as [TS]

  and the opposite. Where I have tried to use Verizon data. Somewhere. And it has like one circle and is unusable. [TS]

  And then I'd go to trade T.N.T. and It's like three circles and perfectly usable and fast. That happens a lot like. [TS]

  I really think that Verizon for whatever reason I don't know if there's if there's a radio theory. [TS]

  The to back this up or of this is just coincidence. Verizon seems to really suck at indoor coverage. [TS]

  Way more than eighty and he does. And and this. Anecdotally. [TS]

  This is always been a problem like people rave about how how much their Verizon phones are great right is the best [TS]

  network. NICAM into your house and they can make a call. [TS]

  You know or like like what I have or other phones like you know. [TS]

  Be great to be going to a grocery store than all the call drops already data doesn't work anymore like it has always [TS]

  been the problem happened for eyes and I have. Members and friends who still have rising today. [TS]

  Those problems have never gone away for them and A.T.M. T. [TS]

  Has really the best thing that ever happened eighty and he was Verizon i Phones coming out. [TS]

  Because that unloader a lot of he and his network. [TS]

  Like eighteen T.'s network has been rock solid for me for the last I would say at least three years of before that it [TS]

  was a little bit spotty. I'd say for a good three years. [TS]

  Eighteen T.'s network has been awesome for me with tethering it with travel all sorts of different places with voice. [TS]

  Everything has been solid and Verizon. The Verizon devices I've had. I have been only. [TS]

  I've only seen mediocrity from them. The Verizon people I know who use it on their phones. [TS]

  They keep complaining what the same mediocre problems that I die always had with rising back in the day and. [TS]

  I don't think I will buy any more Verizon devices because my original the original reason I I would buy a rise in i [TS]

  Pads. I keep made him to phone is. [TS]

  What if I'm somewhere where eighteen he doesn't cover very well but rising covers a better. [TS]

  And it used to be the case if it was like when I would travel to San Francisco for D.V.C. I would use. [TS]

  Like I could use the faster one for tethering. And that one was usually Verizon one back in the day when L.T.E. [TS]

  Was first coming out and everything that was the Verizon one in the last two years I would say. [TS]

  The Verizon one has never been the faster one. Not once like it. Every time I try. [TS]

  Like I always and if you can go back to phones away faster. So I think I'm done buying for eyes and stuff. [TS]

  Yeah I agree with you and I know that there are people that are listening right now they are saying oh [TS]

  but in my particular part of the country be that completely rural or completely. [TS]

  What the hell's the opposite of rural urban. Thank you God I had a total brain fart there. Anyway. [TS]

  Completely urban or completely rural Verizon is the only one that works you all are crazy. [TS]

  I'm sure there are parts of the country that that's true. Well that's what I'm getting I guess we don't. [TS]

  We don't go to the whole country. We go to like or five spots in the country right. So I'm sorry. [TS]

  I just feel entirely possible. [TS]

  Even if those five spots a city city rural city it's still entirely possible to Vera's I'm still has the best coverage [TS]

  in terms of if you put a little pin. [TS]

  Every square mile the country and check a signal strength great Indian Verisign that arise and still covers. [TS]

  Like that has always been a thing with rise and not necessarily that is always the fastest connection but that. [TS]

  If you sample the entire country. [TS]

  You can get horizon signal or a strong of arise in say one more place of the Indian eighty eight I was a teen [TS]

  and he has been building out. [TS]

  I'm assuming they've been building out on the population centers for New York City San Francisco or whatever [TS]

  and there are still places where you can't get either one of them [TS]

  but I'm like I don't know I know I'm in kind of a cell phone dead area the only thing I know is a team mobile gets crap [TS]

  signal here. And that I can actually receive phone calls inside my house with Verizon. [TS]

  I don't have an eight hundred data point to go by. [TS]

  But I'm still entirely willing to believe that Verizon still has better overall coverage. [TS]

  And then it just boils down to OK but I don't go in the whole country I go to the seven places [TS]

  and seven places that I go. [TS]

  Who has better signal who has faster data or whatever and and [TS]

  or thing I think Mosconi must have some kind of a rising repeater because I get crazy good signal there [TS]

  and I hear you see deep inside the bals of that building. Through like many layers of. [TS]

  Maybe they just because they like five brick fabric partitions [TS]

  or whatever don't you get all summarises maybe you don't use resonate more well I get also maintained he coverage in [TS]

  their eyes to the. Point where I usually don't join the wife I with my phone. [TS]

  I don't I don't you go I fly the more user eyes and Ollie and I get great signal fast download speed. [TS]

  So I don't you know again I don't like Verizon week indoors type of thing whatever is going on is the feeling that we [TS]

  can doors there. Now. You know who knows. [TS]

  But anyway the one the one of the thing I want to talk about that was probably rap is. I kind of cracked. [TS]

  The screen on my beloved. I Pad mini. When I was at the beach. Holding it I didn't drop it. It was in my beach bag. [TS]

  My book bag. And I guess I had for whatever reason maybe Declan had an issue or whatever I didn't flap. [TS]

  The Smart Cover close. And so there's this little hairline In fact I thought it was a hair. [TS]

  Cracked So if you're holding the i Pad in portrait. [TS]

  It's just a little like semicircle that only dips into the visible screen area. [TS]

  Right where the edge of the battery indicator is when you're holding in portrait in the portrait right side up. [TS]

  Orientation. Ruined. It's ruined. It's absolutely freakin ruined. So I don't know I genuinely don't know. [TS]

  But I know ways I it wasn't cracked I put it in the bag that we had towels. [TS]

  And the camera and a whole bunch other junk in that we were to that we'd taken down to the beach. [TS]

  And when I pulled back out. [TS]

  It had this hairline crack in it I presume we picked up the bag [TS]

  or threw something into the back I genuinely don't know you are we all know that I fess up [TS]

  when I do dumb crap to my devices. [TS]

  I genuinely don't know what happened it must of been my fault some way but I don't know what happened. [TS]

  And so the reason I bring this up is because it was about time to upgrade the i Pad anyway. [TS]

  I was like the i OS nine stuff I'm actually kind of amped up about. [TS]

  For the i Pad and saws probably going to get a new one but now I'm definitely going to get a new one. Well. [TS]

  I really happen to like having cellular. I Pads. I understand that most people tether. And that works for them. [TS]

  I'm still on the unlimited plan on eighteen C. Which doesn't allow me to tether. [TS]

  I understand that I could probably save money and it doesn't matter blah blah blah. [TS]

  This is the way it is this is what I'm dealing with this is a choice I'm making. So I'm going to get. [TS]

  Probably a new i Pad Mini with cellular. This upcoming fall. The question I have. [TS]

  And that I genuinely don't know the answer to is my understanding of this having not really paid much attention last [TS]

  couple years. Is that a cellular i Pads have the apple sim in. And what I'm not clear on is. [TS]

  My recollection when they first came out was that once you committed to any of the carriers. [TS]

  You're locked to that carrier on that Apple sim. So your device could choose between Verizon or T. [TS]

  Mobile or what have you up front. But the moment you choose That's it for ever. [TS]

  Is do you guys have to know is that true. Or can you flip flop willingly. No idea. I have heard the same thing as you. [TS]

  But I have no idea whether it's true. Someone someone who knows without question. [TS]

  Not just anecdotally like if you have some sort of web page somewhere. [TS]

  That describes how this works I'm assuming Rene Ritchie has something somewhere and I just don't realize it. [TS]

  I would love to see it so it's a nice tweet or some like that because what the reason I bring this up is. [TS]

  I like I said I bounce back and forth between T.-Mo and Verisign I find that T. Mobiles coverage doesn't suck. [TS]

  However when it is good. It's great. [TS]

  And so it's much faster than Verizon and oftentimes much more reliable for than Verisign. [TS]

  When you're in a metro center that actually has two mobile service you know one of the through three areas of the [TS]

  country. Inside like to be able to flip back and forth Additionally T. [TS]

  Mobile presently is giving me two hundred makes a month of data for free. [TS]

  I don't know if that would still be the case in a brand new i Pad but I'd love it to be the case. [TS]

  And so I would rather not get that the apple SIM locked to Verisign. [TS]

  If I can avoid it [TS]

  and maybe the answer is if Verizon is the only thing that that locks maybe I do what market was alluding to earlier [TS]

  and I. If I flip flop at all I do it between eighteen T. and T. Mobile. [TS]

  But if there is some clear documentation somewhere that I can read. I would love to. [TS]

  I would love to read it so please a semi a tweet. And let me now I'd really love to see it. [TS]

  It's probably worth considering just getting a variety. [TS]

  Sam and swapping that in and out or getting a second apples in a pride I will tell you a second apple symposia right. [TS]

  Oh I didn't know that yes Martin chats with only five bucks I don't know if that's true or not [TS]

  but I mean for this kind of concern first of all just putting a T.N.T. [TS]

  On it is probably the right choice and you could probably add your phone plan for some minimal cost per month. [TS]

  But you know if if you're going to do spotting at all between carriers. [TS]

  You might as well swap since it's just you know just to be safe without the new avoid this entire problem. [TS]

  Yet told I actually genuinely did not realize that that you could pop a different same [TS]

  and I didn't know if the sim was like soldered into the board. [TS]

  Because I really haven't had to pay attention this because I wasn't planning on getting I'd had until this year [TS]

  and so now is when I'm starting to think about these things and. [TS]

  And I'll have to do some research [TS]

  and maybe we'll have some follow up about it since I know John you're probably very sad about the lack of follow up [TS]

  this week. Thanks a lot two or three sponsors this week. Cards Against Humanity. Harry's and hover. [TS]

  And we will see you next week. Now the show is over. They didn't even mean to be because it was accidental. [TS]

  It was accidental. John. The mom going to be seen with him. Because it was then a little dental was accidental. [TS]

  And you can find shelter nom de de de da. And if you aren't there. And he was no says. [TS]

  So that's keep lists and A and team are cool. Ahmed Omar thirty. [TS]

  Let's take the risk you learn just ARE BEING thing about an extended family member on vacation this year. [TS]

  Oh you know I am related to somebody who is using. And I was device with a completely cracked and shout and scream. [TS]

  We've all seen people do it. [TS]

  We've seen them in real life you see people's that in their you know if they're swiping the if on long their smartphone. [TS]

  And you look closer and you realize the thing is a spider web. Hell cracks through the whole thing. Right. [TS]

  Everyone it seems I'm wondering that and you think. Why don't they. [TS]

  WELL KNOWN think that that fix is just like a permanent thing [TS]

  or they're going to put a piece of packing tape over to say you know what I'm not going to use it like this until my [TS]

  contract expires in a year and a half and they just do. And you wonder like eventually will they will lose. [TS]

  They're going to slice their finger open on that is this a permanent state of being go they get annoyed trying to look [TS]

  through the cracks where the refraction makes a little image messed up or whatever. [TS]

  And now I'm related to someone who was doing that I could not I could not convince them to pay the ninety nine dollars [TS]

  or whatever it cost to replace the screen. Of the thing. [TS]

  So they're just going to keep using it like that until I don't know until they stop using it. [TS]

  Speaking of to do you guys know how much it is to get the. I Pad mini screen replaced. Not worth it. [TS]

  Probably more than ninety nine to the obviously this is this once I got a phone sized of us was I can tell you like. [TS]

  So my. My kids I've had has a cracked screen it's a very small crack but it is a crack. And so we listen. [TS]

  It's the very first I've had many with terrible not written a screen. [TS]

  We listen to what it would cost to replace the glass and. [TS]

  It was I forget exactly what it was that it was something it was basically like is the cost of buying a new i Pad [TS]

  or is very close to it for the low end ones. [TS]

  It's probably different like an arrow you're saying you know if it's worth five hundred bucks then it might be [TS]

  different but for the for the minis. It's like two hundred bucks and it's a really. Barely if at all worth doing. [TS]

  It's a bummer so yeah. So we just quote fixed it by getting a like six dollar. Screen protector. [TS]

  That sticks on more people more people I know who are just like cracks cracks happen. [TS]

  You know you figure like a failure [TS]

  and you would have just bought a new mini If you're waiting for the new ones that come out for your brother. Well it's. [TS]

  First of all it's. It's the first generation unwritten and it's it's to play occasional kid games on. [TS]

  He doesn't give a crap whether the screen is red and whether it's new or fast. [TS]

  So I'm like OK I have this [TS]

  and there's nothing else I can do it has it's not even worth reselling like this with a crack screen it's not worth [TS]

  much. There's nothing can do with this so you know I'll just let him use it till it dies. [TS]

  I have Casey's retina Padmini I have that model of i Pad. [TS]

  That's been sitting in a drawer unused I keep meaning to like sell it [TS]

  or get rid of it I mean well you know if Adam's I've had dies [TS]

  and I can just you know kick him down you know take that one down into his slot and you know I don't know. [TS]

  Now he just melt Casey I guess but this is cellular Yeah it's very small nice. Oh yeah I'll take it. [TS]

  You guys remember when. Shampoo used to come in glass bottles. New. [TS]

  I think that was like the fifty's and you're really old. I don't know if you remember. [TS]

  I think it was like maybe prowler some particular brand anyway. I feel like that our grandkids. [TS]

  When we tell them stories that we use that carry about around a bunch of rectangle. That were made of glass. [TS]

  And it sometimes they would crack and people just use them shattered or sometimes the like they were able. [TS]

  They will look at us and the same way we think about you had glass bottles of shampoo in the shower. [TS]

  Does not seem like like why didn't you just you know make a lot of plastic has a we're not plastic Really. [TS]

  That you know like it's. [TS]

  I feel like we're in this period where glass is the right material to making out of right now unquestionably. [TS]

  But there are obvious downsides to glass. [TS]

  That someday when we get past that [TS]

  and get a device that has like all the benefits of glass without the whole shattering. [TS]

  And not being you know like the look back at us [TS]

  and get you guys were carrying on glass things it was like you're carrying around these fragile East. [TS]

  Faberge eggs that if you dropped on the cement they were just like shatter a cracker spider web [TS]

  and you had to put this. It's going to look weird to them because already it seems to me like. [TS]

  So it's really the best thing we should be doing. Everyone in the world carries around a little rectangle of glass. [TS]

  We're going to do now. Seems absurd to me. Yeah. The tipsters asking the chat. [TS]

  You know what am I to kind of recap what if I'm going to get a new Mini this year. [TS]

  Which isn't guaranteed but is my intention. What do I. [TS]

  What do I care about the existing one in the thing of it is that it's perfectly fine with the exception. [TS]

  Stupid hairline crack and so I feel terrible like. [TS]

  Not that I would necessarily throw it away I'd probably like is all it and just take the hit on the cracked screen but.. [TS]

  I feel like. This is a perfectly usable device mean I just told you earlier that I'm using a three G.S. [TS]

  Every single day in two thousand and fifteen. [TS]

  To just get rid of this seems so stupid like I could use it for Declan in a year [TS]

  or two maybe I could give it to Aaron if she wanted it. [TS]

  There's so many things I could do with this and so it seems so wrong not to get it fixed [TS]

  but she's for two hundred dollars that's probably not worth it. Yeah it's. [TS]

  It's a really it is unlikely to be worth Apple's safe now. [TS]

  There are also third party fixes there's also do it yourself fixes I didn't look at all any of those options because I [TS]

  did like five minutes of looking into it and it seemed like it was not only very difficult [TS]

  but also like not that much cheaper like it was like maybe a hundred fifty bucks in it wasn't it wasn't that much [TS]

  cheaper. So the guy's not worth it. [TS]

  But you know that might be worth considering for you but I think the better move is probably take the hit. Sell it and. [TS]

  And just get some you know. [TS]

  Or do I didn't stick a ten dollars computer on it [TS]

  and give us a Declan to play stupid games on because kids really don't care [TS]

  or yeah I know it's it's it's I'm just annoyed. [TS]

  Just like before I'm annoyed at myself because this one is not a clause I deliberate action that I deliberately poured [TS]

  water on twice but. [TS]

  But I don't know I wasn't even touching the damn thing when it broke so I feel a little less guilty about it [TS]

  but I still I'm frustrated I still want to make it right. [TS]

  Hot enough to make it right by buying yourself a new i Pad this fall and see that's the market. [TS]

  No no I didn't this happen to me and I didn't do enough. John anything interesting from you. [TS]

  Did you break any i Pads at the beach. I did not break any of my thing. [TS]

  Hello But I came home from vacation I found that my how water heater was leaking slots and I saw him home. [TS]

  Didn't that route anything but haven't. Did run a rug. [TS]

  Didn't like you know flood the basement it wasn't like hole the water in the water came out [TS]

  and went on to my floor which is good because it would just keep going right [TS]

  but anough water that's usually what happens when they fail. [TS]

  Well that tent of also like fail slowly started weeping they were just it was just leaking over the course of a week. [TS]

  And you know. Covered the floor with barely enough water to basically so can ruin a rug but didn't you know. [TS]

  Cover the whole basement floor anyway. We have no hot water heater now. [TS]

  Did you go tankless ona we talked about it again we talk about it every time every place it's still not the thing for [TS]

  us to do [TS]

  and what do you say that they say I talk to them about it basically if you if you have what we have which is like a you [TS]

  know a boiler. For making hot water for heat. An older one the vents the chimney. [TS]

  And then you have a hot water heater and you just want to replace thought water heater you could go tankless. [TS]

  But there's still issues of how much pressure can it put out if you're running all your hot water things at the same [TS]

  time. And the better way to do it is to just replace your entire system. [TS]

  With a new high fissions he wanted to dispense drugs of the outside. [TS]

  Doesn't he go through the chimney and that does the hot water for all your radiators and the tankless hot water. [TS]

  And that has more capacity take to. [TS]

  You know instantly heat the water and use time at like basically when it's cold here in the winter. [TS]

  You get freezing cold water coming in from the outside in a lot of demand for how water for all the radios of the same [TS]

  time you're running. You know trying to wash the dishes in the sink with hot water and running a shower. [TS]

  That it's very difficult to get off of that. So we're sure as hell not replacing the entire system down there. [TS]

  Because fine. If you just replacing the hot water heater. They recommended and. [TS]

  You know and they're recommending me buy a cheaper thing from them with a ten year warranty so there you know. [TS]

  I basically trust the fact that if it really was better. They'd try to sell me the much more expensive tankless thing. [TS]

  And they say every time talk to them the same company like that it goes a new construction. [TS]

  All the time because it's like the. [TS]

  The sort of fancier more experiencing to do but new construction has entire high efficiencies [TS]

  and not just like oh you got an old boiler the does your hot water and the next we have just a tankless system [TS]

  and they still hear complaints from people who get them a new construction that's not as good as a big tanks. [TS]

  That is usually the most sensible economical option even though we have fancier things like my system is. [TS]

  Fortunately we didn't do it the people the forest of my system is the kind where there is one boiler. For both heat. [TS]

  And a big heat exchange tank for the hot water. [TS]

  And so that we just have one big boiler that can do both and a big tank that heats up also and vanishes there. [TS]

  You know besides I'm sure the same efficiency gains but the biggest advantages. [TS]

  Like according to some guy who looked at it once. Is that then the boiler is continually running year round. [TS]

  So that tends to make them last longer because it isn't going like the Hall of summer months without running at all [TS]

  and a new start up in the winter [TS]

  and hope it works you know it's it isn't it doesn't have like those big cycles of non-use for a long time [TS]

  and entering it on. [TS]

  But it's still vented to the chimney right not just to the outside your house no it has a direct outside. All right. [TS]

  Also maybe it's one of those new higher efficiency systems on your life [TS]

  and mine I can do the same thing as your as another option as we have a big boiler. I could also. [TS]

  You know it has the hookups and supposedly. Perhaps the capacity to say Oh this can also be your hot water. [TS]

  But it's like maybe barely got the capacity and every time it has come up it's like better. Just get a dedicated thing. [TS]

  And be independent because it's not a big guy efficiency thing and you know. You may be borderline. [TS]

  You may be taking a downgrade and how much hot water. [TS]

  And how much how water pressure you have able to sell the new one is actually the same size of the old one [TS]

  but fancier unlike higher recovery so that once you start using the hot water able. Heat up sooner anyway. [TS]

  Bottom line is we got the new thing installed and someone take a shower. [TS]

  Like the temperature is turned down like as low as the possibly can be like we always do in the summer to turn. [TS]

  You know the sort of standby this little dial you can turn to say. [TS]

  How hot you want to keep the water in this tank in the summer you can get away lower because the water coming in is [TS]

  warmer and you just on hot showers. We had in the lowest possible setting. [TS]

  And still the first person take a shower put turn the little knob like what the normally turn it to ever just scalding [TS]

  hot and incredible in pressure and about like Alright. The old one did not only was leaking. But obviously was crap. [TS]

  At this point in its life cycle like seven years old or never were just just one year out of warranty if. [TS]

  No one has a ten year warranty so I need to put a reminder on my calendar for the ten year anniversary before it starts [TS]

  leaking. Just make the call and don't even bother to see if it's going to last a litter twelve years. [TS]

  Right you know just replaces I've been told now for multiple contractors and plumbers over the last couple years. [TS]

  That water heaters don't last as long as they used to and that they always die at about ten years. [TS]

  And that like if you like. It's now to the point were like. If you buy a home. [TS]

  The home inspector will flag a ten year old water heater as like a problem that needs to be addressed. [TS]

  Yeah because they fail in ways that cause much more. [TS]

  You know you're not that expensive and [TS]

  when they fail potentially big problems because you know if you don't want your entire basement flooded with water [TS]

  coming because usually the way they fail is the bottom falls off and. [TS]

  I've been lucky to have water heaters that he bought without both of the previous ones failed by starting to leak [TS]

  slowly from the bottom which is a good way to fail. [TS]

  Although [TS]

  when you're on vacation it's kind of scary that it was slowly leaking from the bottom quintile we will who aren't here. [TS]

  Doria now. How is a vacation. That's fine. The Casey said Losing your i Pad to the Eureka agent is a. Yeah it was good. [TS]

  Declan did not like the water. Did not like the water like he did just fine. [TS]

  Like the beach just fine Got a near the water. And as long as he wasn't touching the water everything was mostly OK. [TS]

  But even just dipping his little feet in the water like way up at the very edge of where the waves can reach. [TS]

  You know some talking about it's. You know a quarter inch of water on sand. [TS]

  He did not care for that at all which is fine. That's standard baby behavior. Yeah. [TS]

  I'm not bothered by it but I will say he is crawling like a champion now starting to pull up on things now. [TS]

  Sort of I mean not standing without holding on to stuff. [TS]

  But you know he can like stand for a long time like tripod so he's got you know his hands on something in his feet on [TS]

  the ground. So that's both wonderful petrifying all the same time. But progress is being made. My parents were here. [TS]

  When I was at work. They tend to come in once weeks. [TS]

  To give Aaron a little break and later you know go grocery shopping without the baby or whatever and. [TS]

  And they said in the last two weeks because they just hadn't seen him in two weeks they said that the change was just [TS]

  tremendous which I mean that's to be expected when one is a baby I'm not saying that. And I'm not trying to be like. [TS]

  Well my baby is the most smart baby after it's none of that it's just you know baby strange quick. As it turns out and. [TS]

  So lots happening big doings around listen to hold but I'm going to concentrate on the weekends when you're home [TS]

  or nights when you're more whatever. Concentrate on getting him to. If you want to see his first steps. [TS]

  Chances are doing your work so you have to basically take him during the weekends A Now we're going to do the first [TS]

  steps because the only way you're going to see it is if you make it happen. [TS]

  Yeah yeah and I've been like holding his hands like when he's standing [TS]

  and trying to like tilt him forward enough that he's like. Just to keep his center of gravity under him. [TS]

  That's probably not the wrong way to describe it anyways. [TS]

  Just given self balance you know who have to bring a foot forward and sometimes he gets it sometimes he doesn't. [TS]

  But it's been funny he's also occasionally mimicking us. Sometimes directly sometimes. Vaguely. [TS]

  So like will tilt our head from one side or the other and sometimes Full Tilt has had the same way and sometimes not. [TS]

  Sometimes we shake our head like no not not to indicate not to do something but just to shake left and right. [TS]

  Sometimes whole like follow follow that and shake his head left and right which is really adorable. [TS]

  He's becoming more and more a person with each passing day which is wild. Shoes. [TS]

  Going to ask you how did you CAN YOU camera it's arriving tomorrow. [TS]

  On the borders of those big boxes just lens lenses and the lens is so tiny like not at all [TS]

  but can we back up just a smidge. You ordered a new Sony camera. [TS]

  That's full frame with interchangeable lenses is that correct. That's correct. OK. [TS]

  So this is kind of like that that crazy Sony you had at my house for top here a couple years ago with the crazy good [TS]

  low light. It is extremely similar in many ways to that but just with a larger body and with an agenda lenses. [TS]

  And one of the lenses I bought. Yes that was the R.X. One. [TS]

  They were talking about which I have since told you sold something no way here. And one of the lenses I bought. [TS]

  Is basically the lens that was on that it's a little thirty five millimeter prime the Sony F two point eight thirty [TS]

  five prime. Unlike optically the measurements are almost identical. It's like. It's about the same size it's. [TS]

  Yeah it's very very similar. Circuit I love that. That little that the focal length and the small package. [TS]

  But yes with a camera I got is the A seven are two. And it just came out today. And my order from B. and H. [TS]

  Which I placed. Like. I Phone filed a refreshing the page back when it went for sale in June and it just shipped today. [TS]

  It's so I will. I will have it tomorrow because I'm very close to being H.'s warehouse. [TS]

  So everything of that comes in one day. And I asked so I got the thirty five. [TS]

  Two point eight primary at the fifty five one point eight. [TS]

  Which is one of the best lenses in the world by most measures and ninety. [TS]

  Macro which is very very new but everyone seems to think it's amazing so far as getting stellar reviews so. [TS]

  This is my first upgrade to my big camera. Since. [TS]

  Since the arcs one maybe one about that like two years ago [TS]

  but that was kind of a temporary thing that ended of not sticking with. [TS]

  Before that my last upgrade to my big camera in the last upgrade that I had to interchangeable lenses was in two [TS]

  thousand and eight with the five the mark two so this is it's been a long time coming. This. [TS]

  This one every totally replace using any canons for me to still using the canons [TS]

  and she still goes for photo shoots so we will see she's she's interested in the new camera. [TS]

  And some made my convert the whole system over. I'm at least. [TS]

  Most likely going to sell some of the canned lenses that we don't really use out in tips photo shoots. [TS]

  Because I don't I'm never gonna use them again. [TS]

  So why wouldn't a professional photographer want to use a full frame camera with interchangeable lenses. [TS]

  If they Let's suppose you really are really good photography but you sold all your stuff you're doing others. [TS]

  You're doing other things for a while but now you're you're starting a business back up [TS]

  and you're looking to buy all new cameras all new glass. Why why not buy this what's wrong with this. [TS]

  The the biggest thing for proofs and a lot of pros are buying this. [TS]

  That's that's one thing [TS]

  and the other one of the reasons why I think if it is likely to stick with the five you mark two zero. [TS]

  We have two of them. [TS]

  We each got one in two thousand and eight [TS]

  and one of the reasons why we're likely to stick with those for a while is the same reason why we haven't upgraded [TS]

  since two thousand and eight. Because there's a lot of inertia there like we have. [TS]

  We have probably five or six batteries for it. We have tons of new compact flash memory cards for some. [TS]

  You know very good quality ones are very expensive. [TS]

  We have a battery grip for one of them we have a cable remote with a timer for time lapse remote. [TS]

  We have for speed light flashes. To old ones that were kind of flaky and two new ones about three. [TS]

  Please them recently saw we have so many accessories that are not universal that only work with this. [TS]

  As we have so many accessory for the net like. We didn't even upgrade to the next to the Canon five D. Mark three. [TS]

  Because the five you mark two was so good in the Mark three. [TS]

  For our purposes didn't feel like a very compelling upgrade to replace all those gear that we would have to replace. [TS]

  We have you know. [TS]

  In addition of all the all the can lenses in everything so there's a lot of inertia behind sticking with it we have [TS]

  but if that wasn't the case if you didn't have any of that. [TS]

  What would prevent you like is the viewfinder not optical does that even matter anymore. [TS]

  What would cause anything Marilyn's Basically I know there's going to be some exception weird [TS]

  but basically the viewfinder is not optical. It's not like what you think of when you think of an S.L.R. [TS]

  Where you are looking through a prism through. Across a mirror into a cross out the lens like. [TS]

  That is what defines an S.L.R. Is like the single lens reflex it's like you're looking through the lens with this. [TS]

  Mirror thing that flips up when you take a picture and expose the sensor. So Merlo scammers lack that. [TS]

  And yes there's rangefinders all the weird things but basically you know. Marilyn's cameras lack that. [TS]

  And there are a lot of advantages to that there is a lot that that is very nice I really enjoy it up [TS]

  and this is a bit of a leap of faith for me to in the process of renting this house or rented the Nikon D seven fifty.. [TS]

  Which is a fantastic. Traditional style S.L.R. It is excellent in so many ways. [TS]

  As an amazing focus system it has amazing low light performance amazing sensor. Made by Sony and. [TS]

  It is a fantastic camera in many ways. The reason why a pro might choose that. [TS]

  Besides the handling and just prefer looking through the lens directly through the optical thing [TS]

  and everything is mostly just because there are certain things that appeal to pros [TS]

  and certain things that pros need so certain things that appeal them there's there's a huge. [TS]

  There's a much larger library of available lenses. First of all. Now granted you have to you know. [TS]

  Pick a system so you gotta pick Nikon or Canon or. You know even the big Sony's but nobody picks those. [TS]

  And you know if you buy a Nikon camera you've got to use Nikon lenses and. There are adapters and. [TS]

  There are efforts to use. Nikon or Canon lenses on the Sony cameras. But you give up some things like. There are some. [TS]

  You know some some of them don't work quite right some of them don't focus. Very quickly if at all. Some of them. [TS]

  You know they have little little bugs little glitches little little setbacks. [TS]

  The adapters are all these kind of like hacky third party things that are not supported by anybody. So it's really not. [TS]

  If you have lenses that you want to use from canner Nikon's big lens lamps that's stretch back to twenty years thirty [TS]

  years or longer. You can't really use those well. [TS]

  On a small narrow scammer you can use them usually for you after that you can't use them well you're better off just [TS]

  getting the native body. If you can and. Because these marrows cameras have been around for way less time. [TS]

  The lens lines are just WAY smaller. Like one of my favorite lenses on the Canon is the one thirty five F. To pride. [TS]

  It is awesome. There is no equivalent to that. That I can mount on the Sony that is native. [TS]

  There are some but I came out through adapters and then I don't have auto focus on everything. [TS]

  Or I can mount the Canon one through and have autofocus [TS]

  but it might be weird I don't know regardless like there is no native one. [TS]

  And so that's you know the lens library a small that that will change over time. [TS]

  But that is still the case is also things like there is no great first party flashes that have amazing metering as far [TS]

  as I know like there is some you can use any of flash and you can have it you can manually meter it [TS]

  but that's not as good and so there's all sorts of wipe out there. [TS]

  There's just a lot more like limitations in what kind of gear is available. And it is also things that. [TS]

  Well that a lot of pros. Either need really or at least would would want. [TS]

  So one of the biggest downside for the Sony full farm system is the cameras have terrible battery lives. [TS]

  Because they're really small. They're really high powered. You know computationally. [TS]

  And they have these little tiny batteries that like the bad. Re for and for a full size S.L.R. [TS]

  Can last like five times as long and full of the larger not lighting up screens constantly in a viewfinder. [TS]

  So that's a little cameras have terrible battery lives. That is the biggest downside to me. [TS]

  Also for pro use the cameras are usually not whether sealed. Which a lot of pros need and many pros want. [TS]

  And they are also. I don't think any of them have some of the more unusual but sometimes needed. [TS]

  Perfect years like dual memory slots. So there's like stuff like that like. [TS]

  There's just there's some features the pros. [TS]

  Need or want that are not available on Merrill scammers and are probably not going to come soon. [TS]

  So we'll see what happens. I'm very happy not being a pro in this way right now.. [TS]

  Like I like back in two thousand and eight we bought the. The pro five D. [TS]

  Because it was the only way to get really great image quality like to get. [TS]

  I mean the difference I mean your cameras often Casey. But. But the difference between full frame. [TS]

  And not full frame is large. This is not a small difference. It is a very big difference. [TS]

  And we just love that difference. And back then there was a much bigger gap also. Now the gap is smaller. [TS]

  But it was nothing about that. [TS]

  Well it's also a considerably larger financial penalty as well right because I got a really really beautiful lens [TS]

  or at least I feel like it is. [TS]

  And on top of the kit [TS]

  and off to my head I want to say it was about fifteen hundred dollars all in so the kit lens which is a little zoom [TS]

  and. This really good lens it's not a pancake but it's a really solid prime that. Sean blank recommended which I love. [TS]

  I couldn't the tightest six of time I had but anyways. That was like fifteen hundred dollars all in and. [TS]

  I'm going to you don't tell me a number of I'm going to guess that you're in a lot more than that for this full frame [TS]

  camera. [TS]

  A lot more thing that I mean [TS]

  and you can I mean part of it because I just got like the cutting edge best model because I me [TS]

  and also because I don't upgrade these things very often. So part of it is that. [TS]

  Certainly I think even if you get like a more reasonably priced one. [TS]

  You're looking at for a good lens and a good body you're looking at over two thousand probably for this. [TS]

  For this type but regardless. So that's that's what I got it arrives tomorrow. [TS]

  There is there is no like massive full review available of it yet. So it's a bit of a risk. But based on the early. [TS]

  I rented its predecessor the A seven two I rented that back. Reforms of the. The seven fifty. [TS]

  I rented that so and it has like. I basically an identical body identical handle identical menus. [TS]

  That there's almost no difference in like the physical side so I know that I like shooting with it. [TS]

  It just has a different sensor and a better sense or. So anyway. I don't think that much of a risk but we'll see. [TS]

  I have no idea. [TS]